Carey P,

OK, I will download/install AVISynth and try it out. Dumb question, I run TheaterTek and it goes full screen. I'd like to toggle to see both the FFDShow & CPU usage from Task Manager.......since I hear the OSD is not accurate......seems to bounch around like it is though. Also, it seems that you can leave FFDshow open and toggle items on the fly........other than resize.......have not tried this. So, how do I toggle over to these as TT is running full screen ?

Press the Windows button or Ctrl+Esc on the keyboard.

Press and hold ALT and then press TAB once to be able to switch between windows. Press TAB (while holding ALT) to cycle through the open programs.

You can open Task Manager (which stays on top always on my computer), and drag it all the way to the right until all you see is the CPU usage number and watch how it changes.

Rolfhult, thanks..........geeze......I can't believe I asked that question. However, it does lead me to the question if you want to see the changes by toggling FFDShow AVISynth on/off how do you get the player image to be showing while FFDShow is at the same time to toggle ? I imagine you would have to click this on/off while you're looking at the screen running to catch the change.

Carey P.,

Forgot to ask what version of AVISynth are you running ? I found the AVISynth org page (www.avisynth.org). Also, I really don't want to get too far into AVISynth.......just want to install and put this plugin/fix into FFDShow and be done with it. Is there any "gotchas" after installing AVISynth that I need to look into........like enabling or disabling something that does or doesn't need to be running ?

Thanks for all the help !

Carey P,

Forgot to ask I did see all the posts about YV12. I have YUY2 in the Codec Raw video selected (I think this is inuput) and YV12 in the Resize output section. I have resize after denoise/etc. stuff........basically last. Not in front of my HTPC but is this the settings ? I am running Theatertek so I've seen the YUY2 & YV12 suggestions for this player.......plus I'm outputting to a LCD projector (Sony VPLHS20).

Thanks.

If you are in Zoom Player, I know you can right-click -> filter properties -> open ffdshow while the video is still running. You can move the window over to the right and toggle whatever filter on/off and still see most of the picture (I like this better than "process half of image," since you hardly ever get an equal image on both halves).

thekochs,

I'm using TT and the HS20 as well. In the TT Config screen under Video tab, you can click on the button next to where you have FFDShow designated for postprocessing. This will bring it up overlayed on top of the movie. If you mess around too much in there, you might find you can't close the config screen anymore after closing FFDShow (a bit buggy), so you have to exit and restart TT and go back to "last" position.

No "gotchas" AFAIK with Avisynth. Just install it and put the dll in the plugins directory and set the path to point there in the FFDSHow script space. For color spaces, just check the YV12 box. All other boxes (other than color spaces) can be checked too. No need to push any of the buttons. This is from memory. Good luck.

Carey P,

I'm sure you must have posted it somewhere but can you give all your FFDshow settings, what order, etc., since we both have Sony VPLHS20 ?

Also, I am driving this via Radeon 9600XT from DVI port to DVI-D input of HS20. What a nightmare trying to get 1:1 1368x768 to show thru the DVI/PC port. I finally got all the correct PowerStrip settings to show 1:1 full screen. Sony Tech support.......top level......said it could not be done.

Also, can you describe the green color shift you see when toggling the AVIsynth ?

Regards.

thekochs,

Keep in mind that you may still want different settings based on DVD's and subjective experience.

As of last night my settings were as follows:
Using the Preview SSE2 version of FFDShow:

CODECS: All diabled except Avisynth and RAW: Only YUY2 selected

1) Dscaler Filter (browse to find FLT_Sharpen_SSE2.DLL in the FFDShow folder) Set to 32. Fast Mem. checked.

2) Avisynth (you know the script): 'Add FFDShow Video Source' & 'YV12' checked.

3) Blur&NR: Denoise3D checked. 0.5, 1.0, 5.00, Fast Box NOT checked.

4) Resize&AR: Size: 1920x1440. 'No Aspect Ratio Correction' checked.
Settings: Lanczos - Parameter 4.0. Luma Sharpen only - set to 0.70.

Output (last in the list): YV12 checked only.

I get around 80% CPU usage with above settings at 3.15GHz P4 HT enabled, Radeon 9500Pro.

I was previously using a size of 1376x768 (as close as you can get to 1368)with a lower Luma sharpen (0.20) and Bicubic. This used less than 50% CPU. Lanczos tends to enhance EE for me at the lower size settings, so I used Bicubic resize. But with a higher resize it smooths this out, but then requires a higher sharpen to compensate. Decide for yourself what looks better.

I have not solved the "film" or vaseline look that occurs on low level images especially during movement. This is because FFDShow "freezes" the noise and it looks like a film of greese (or whatever) that overlays the image as it moves below it. That's the best I can describe it right now. The HS20 shows details so well that this is now annoying for me. My previous projector wouldn't show this level of detail, CR and sharpness, due to the Panamorph and other optics, plus a lower res. Now I'm seeing the limitations of DVD material accentuated by FFDShow algorithms.

I don't notice a big change in green, but I do with red. The Avisynth seems to make better facial colors without as much red. Other colors look more natural too. Good luck.

Originally posted by Carey P

I have not solved the "film" or vaseline look that occurs on low level images especially during movement. This is because FFDShow "freezes" the noise and it looks like a film of greese (or whatever) that overlays the image as it moves below it. That's the best I can describe it right now. The HS20 shows details so well that this is now annoying for me. My previous projector wouldn't show this level of detail, CR and sharpness, due to the Panamorph and other optics, plus a lower res. Now I'm seeing the limitations of DVD material accentuated by FFDShow algorithms.


That's most likely the Denoise filter. I've never used it for that exact reason. I didn't notice it as much in the bg, but skin textures seemed to float, just like you describe. I like the grain/noise (sometimes add a small amount of noise with the Noise filter), as I find it gives more grain/texture/detail, and makes things a little sharper without being a true sharpening filter. In fact, I don't use any sharpening:

Raw Video - All supported
Levels Output @ 16x235
Resize - 1920x1080, Lanczos 4, no sharpen
Noise - New, uniform, strength 10-12 (sometimes)
Overlay adjustments to boost brightness/contrast
Output in YV12


I rented Adaptation this week - great picture btw. The disc had some major scratches, and it got stuck on my HTPC in a certain scene. I tried it in my regular DVD player, same scene (in the car after date, about 20 minutes in), and I noticed the picture was very good on regular DVD as well, with less noise accentuated in the blurry bg's. I returned it and got a different copy, watched it on the HTPC. But yes, resizing/upscaling can exaggerate stuff like that. The title credits in the beginning of "Stuck on You" are horrible, with ringing outside the text like you wouldn't believe.

On INHD, was watching "Order In" (previews of movies on PPV), and was drooling over the preview for LOTR-ROTK. Some DVDs look great now, but man, I can't wait for the new HD-DVD format. That's why I'm not too concerned about buying DVDs now - have a small collection, with a Blockbuster (Freedom Pass gets me as many DVDs I want a month for $25) right outside our apartment too.

Sorry, off-topic...

Well I'm having I kind of speed problem, a couple of times per movie the movie speeds up for half a second or so, it happens randomly and I dont seem to find the problem, the sound blanks out during this period.

I have tried to search, but cant find anything about this problem.

Using:
ZP latest
FFdshow with SSE2 opt
Sonic 1.5 decoders for video and sound.

In ffdshow I use:
Blur&NR: Denoise3D checked. 0.5, 0.5, 5.00

Resize&AR: Size: 1440x1152. 'No Aspect Ratio Correction' checked.
Settings: Bicubic.

Sharpen: Unsharp mask

On a:
Asus p4c800 deluxe i875.
Intel 3.0@3.3
2 x 256 DDR 333

CPU load: max 35%

Anyone know why I'm not able to change FFDShow config while the movie is playing anymore? I used to be able to.. It's annoying because I want to see how it looks on the fly without restarting 2 billion times..

Thanks!

konfucius,


I can't answer your question, but I can tell you that in your denoise settings, the only thing that is doing anything is the Time setting. Anything under .8 for L/C is treated as 0.


I never liked denoise because of what it does to textures, especially skin (seems like floating), and never used it. And a few nights ago I went in to my Service Menu, once again, and calibrated the Brightness setting for DNIe (on my Sammy HLN4365W), and was able to eliminate the need to use Overaly adjustments for brightness/contrast -- I still use Levels output at 18/235. But my noise is a lot better (less), colors blend instead of band, and the PQ seems much better. I watched Passion of the Christ last night - I don't know how much of the great PQ was because of the DVD/transfer, and how much was my HTPC - levels, Lanscoz 4 resize to 1920x1080 (no sharpen), plus Noise at 9 (I don't like artificial sharpening or denoise, but find a tiny bit of extra noise adds grain/texture/depth to the picture, which adds a sense of extra sharpness without EE), but it had an amazing picture (Adaptation and the Rundown are two others with amazing PQ IMO, and I watched The Rundown before I got into HTPC).


If you can get your TV itself calibrated, you'll probably not have to use denoise or other stuff. Try turning off denoise, change Resize to Lanscoz 4 (you should have the CPU - unless you like the bicubic results better), and try no sharpening (or perhaps sharpening with the resize).

For your question, you might try some other codecs. I use WinDVD 6 codecs (get them free with the trial version of the software), with the DMO_V Abstract - pasteurization value set to 0 in regedit fix.



Swat,

Have you recently made any changes in software codecs, versions of anything, etc.? Perhaps you have too little CPU left to handle the changes on the fly - or perhaps it's because of a new piece of software...

All,

I see the selection "Process Whole Image" on many of the screens. What does this mean exactly ? In a post well back said that it meant the black bars too....can FFDShow really see what is and isn't video for all Aspect Ratios. Why would you ever check this box ? Also, would there ever be a reason to check this in the resize screen ? Doesn't this just slow you down.

I know you can select the right half of the image for comparisons but I find it much easier to toggle items on/off for an entire screen.

Thanks.

Is there a DXVAPAL=1 type of reg setting for getting PAL to work with NVDVD3+ffdshow? NTSC works fine but PAL is bombing.

I'm having trouble with making adjustments using zoomplayer colour controls and/or ffdshow picture properties with the THX optimizer tool included in some DVDs. Through the DVD menu I navigate to the Video test screens and attempt to make adjustments. Adjustments of the various available sliders does not have any effect on the video test images. If the movie is running all of it works.

Any help with this would be appreciated. I'm expecting DVE soon. Would I have the same problems with DVE.

TIA

With the THX screens, I think the only thing that shows up on-the-fly is the Overlay panel. The image/test screen plays for about 5-10 seconds, then is a still image. So you'll have to press STOP and then PLAY again to see the changes.

Originally posted by cyberbri
With the THX screens, I think the only thing that shows up on-the-fly is the Overlay panel. The image/test screen plays for about 5-10 seconds, then is a still image. So you'll have to press STOP and then PLAY again to see the changes.

That makes sense. Thanks. I'll try it.

Regards

Which one are you using (THX)?

One time I tried both Monsters Inc and Fight Club, one in the DVD player and one in the computer. I got really confused, but then switched, and realized that the Fight Club one was much darker. I've been using the Monsters, Inc only DVD since then. They're supposedly slightly tailored to the DVDs they're on (black levels, etc.), so you might get slightly different results with different versions -- but slight differences in black levels can change the picture a lot (lose/boost shadow detail).

I've found I get great shadow details through my Service Menu calibration using the THX DVD, the test patterns (especially the gray-scale fades) in my Sammy SM, and just going by eye.

Like I said, after properly calibrating my brightness in my Service Menu, I no longer need to do the brightness/contrast in the ffdshow overlay panel. I still boost the black output level in Levels, since they're crushed on this DVD drive/PC. But now all I have is Levels, Resize, and a slight amount of added Noise, and it looks better than I've ever seen it before. Adjusting the DVI (cable/HD) and the other inputs has improved them as well.

Dy you have a gamma control for your vid card (or brightness for that matter) that you can use instead of levels? Making the adjustment in the video card is going to produce a much better result than in a filter that has to work in 8-bit color space (for each color).

I do, for my nVidia 5200 Ultra card. I received the same advice from someone else, and tried adjusting the gamma in the advanced card settings. However the results weren't very good at all. I'm just boosting the black output to compensate for the black crush, not changing any gamma, etc.

The Levels - Output works fine for me, especially with the horrible results I got trying to adjust the gamma curve in my card settings.

Thanks fot the input, though.

All,

I have read the 138 pages and recall there were items on what order to put things in FFDShow. The obvious is Resize last unless you have a super-duper PC and use SSE version. Anyway, I recall there were suggestions on Blur & NR, Dscaler, Sharpen, etc. My issue is that I have a 2.6GHZ P4 and run the above into Resize at 1440x960....Lanscoz 4. Looks great and CPU in Task Manager shows 65% max......7/9 SSE version of FFDShow running. Anyway, every so often I get skips/frame-drops. It can't be the CPU load but I recall there were suggestions (does-don't) of which order to put the items in. Can anyone enlighten ? My settings in these items are very typical based on post suggestions.

Thanks.

Your skips could be either audio related, in which case you would need to try re-clock, or there may be some other process kicking in on your machine.

As far as order is concerned, once your CPU load is OK, I don't think order matters.

General consensus here is too use denoise3d BEFORE resize will all builds of ffdshow. With the exception of the newest one, 0801a preview, which has a FAST option for denoise3d, with much lower cpu consumption.

Thanks,

I have audio set in TheaterTek & Audigy 2ZS card for pass-through SP/DIF and my Yamaha amp is decoding. This works much better in that it really skips bad if I have player or card decode it. Plus, I can use the zillion DSP functions on my Yamaha Amp at that point.

What is the HQ box on the 7-09 SSE build versus the FAST on the new August build ?

Also, I posted earlier but didn't see anyone respond.........should you ever check "process entire/whole image" ? I heard is was for black bars too so keep unchecked. Definitely runs faster without checked and I can't see any changes to video.

Thanks.

when is the latest non-sse/2 version going to be released?

I'd love a fix for the horizontal banding found on black/dark backgrounds in the current FFDshow versions.

Forgot to ask.....which is better the SSE 7/9 version, assuming you have a Intel P4 CPU, or the latest August preview version ? I think this version is not SSE enabled but seems to have some features to optimize Lanscoz 4 and Denoise 3D w/Fast. Andy ? Athos ? Anyone done a compare on speed and any quality differences ?

Thanks.

Originally posted by konfucius
Well I'm having I kind of speed problem, a couple of times per movie the movie speeds up for half a second or so, it happens randomly and I dont seem to find the problem, the sound blanks out during this period.


I've had that problem with various soundcards. Try using Reclock. Perhaps you're using the ASUS MB builtin SPDIF output which I've had this problem with. Don't think this problem is related to FFDSHOW though.

UKDude,

Where do you find reclock ? Also, can you explain what it does (name is obvious) but from an implementation and any gotchas ? I have a Asus motherboard but I'm using an Audigy 2ZS card with SPDIF passthrough.

Thanks

There are many threads here about reclock...

Originally posted by thekochs
UKDude,

Where do you find reclock ? Also, can you explain what it does (name is obvious) but from an implementation and any gotchas ? I have a Asus motherboard but I'm using an Audigy 2ZS card with SPDIF passthrough.

Thanks

Why not do a search on google?

<<Description:
The purpose of ReClock is to definitely get rid of jerky playback of AVI and MPEG material on a PC (or a PC connected to a TV). It's a DirectShow filter which is loaded in place of the default directsound audio renderer.
It provides a new reference clock that is locked to the video card hardware clock, in order to ensure that frames are played at the exact speed of what is expected by the video card vertical sync.
It also provides a frame rate adaptator for media files that do not match a multiple of the video card refresh rate (ex: playback of 23,976fps IVTC NTSC on a PAL TV).
Finally it is an audio renderer with hardware or software rate adaptation in real-time, multi-channel audio, and dynamic range compression capabilities.
For a full description of ReClock, please read carefully the README file in the distribution. There is also a little FAQ at the bottom of the page that answers common questions.>>

Got the link and downloaded. Will start the reading process. Sorry for the question just thought a quick explanation would help.....I should have done some digging first.....my apologies. Anyway, the previous posts mention "alot of ReClock" threads. I did a search on AVSForum and there is some sporadic posts but is there a Thread for ReClock FAQ or it is somewhere else ? A link would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I'm not using TV only DVDs off the HDD with TheaterTek, Audigy 2ZS passthrough SPDIF & FFDShow. Does ReClock help in this scenario/playback ?

Thanks.

Originally posted by thekochs
Also, I'm not using TV only DVDs off the HDD with TheaterTek, Audigy 2ZS passthrough SPDIF & FFDShow. Does ReClock help in this scenario/playback ?


Yes.

FFDshow experts. I've asked numerous times and there sure has been alot of discussion on this topic. But I'm looking at choosing a CPU again and have another one to ask about.

Model: Intel Celeron D
Core: Prescott
Operating Frequency: 2.66 GHz
FSB: 533MHz
Cache: L1/12K+16K; L2/256K
Voltage: 0.956V-1.052V
Process: 90 nm
Socket: Socket 478
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3
Warranty: 3-year MFG
Packaging: Retail box (with Heatsink and Fan)

If you notice that these new Celeron processors do have SSE2 and SSE3. From Andy's response before he stated that processor power does not mean as much as having SSE2. Since from what I've read in reviews, these processors are fairly descent. They are no slouches. This one I listed is the 2.66hz version but they do have a 2.8hz version available also.
These CPU's with a mb combo deal can be had for less than $100 at Fry's.
Add 512megs ram, nVidia 6600 video card along with Theater Tek 2 and it should be fine for FFDshow (resize 1440x960) with nVidia 4.0 codecs?

Any opinions on this? VLAD do you have a comment on this?

The new Celeron looks interesting.

I have a 2.5G P4, running at 533 FSB with PC2100 RAM (845G chipset).
AIW 9700 Pro as the video card, running AGP4x on the MB.


I use TT 1.5.64 (waiting for TT2), as well as Girder, reclock, DVDidle.

Using the SSE2 build my current config is Gradual Denoise (to get to YV12) followed by resize to 1440x960 Lanczos4 with Luma sharpen. Output of the video card is 1440x960i.

My CPU is around 65% (I think, haven't checked in a while).

I did try to resize as high as 1440x1440 but it stuttered on 30fps material.

So, based on all that I think the 2.6G Celeron is probably a good bet if you don't want to do any Denoise 3D.

I haven't heard (or don't remember) if the NV4.0 codecs are any more CPU hungry. If you plan on using VMR9 that may also make a difference.

Originally posted by stylinlp
FFDshow experts. I've asked numerous times and there sure has been alot of discussion on this topic. But I'm looking at choosing a CPU again and have another one to ask about.

Model: Intel Celeron D
Core: Prescott
Operating Frequency: 2.66 GHz
FSB: 533MHz
Cache: L1/12K+16K; L2/256K
Voltage: 0.956V-1.052V
Process: 90 nm
Socket: Socket 478
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3
Warranty: 3-year MFG
Packaging: Retail box (with Heatsink and Fan)

Any opinions on this?

i think the 2.4 P4 combos from frys for a little more ($20-30) are better values. If you're target is 1440x960 resize and light post processing then the celeron will be fine. but i'd go for more cpu then you think you need if the price difference is marginal. i think i saw a frys combo of a 2.8G P4 for $180 a few weeks back. that's much more flexible and gives you headroom to try more with ffdshow.

i'm stuck on a celeron (2.0 oced to 2.6) and while it runs fine at 1440x960 with lanzcos resize, i've hit the limit of what it will do, i can go higher on the res if i pick a different resize (like bicubic) but that;s a compromise. so buying too little up front can hurt you, as long as you know what you want to do with the HTPC up front then this could be fine.

Eh... I don't know. I don't like the 533 FSB. But if you're budget concious, it might be a good way to go. How much cheaper is it than a 2.8c?

i think i saw a frys combo of a 2.8G P4 for $180 a few weeks back. that's much more flexible and gives you headroom to try more with ffdshow.

Every few days they have a different offer. The other day it was a 3.2gig P4 with the same intel mb for $199. That is the one I jumped all over. It overclocks easily upwards of 3.6 and can run anything I throw at it. Currently I have it set for 1920x1080 resize and after with denoise3d, which is where it looks best. VMR9 looks the best I have seen it with this config. All other resize and denoise3d options and vmr9 has blown it away though. At this point I cannot decide which I like better. I switch back and forth and overlay is a lighter load.

Be advised these prescott cpu's run very hot. Add to that the 6800 and a fast 200g hard drive and you have a lot of heat to dissipate, which I am currently addressing with a new case, vga cooler, etc. But at these CPU prices I can afford to take my chances. The northwoods run significant cooler but I have not seen any package deals with them like these.

Brian

Brian, did you ever try running without Denoise and using the AA/AF settings instead? I forget if you did and didn't like it.

I don't have the last add so not sure which Celeron D it was. But it was around $69. Compared to $180 for a P4 3.0 800mz.

JVincent,

Can you tell me where a good reclock thread is ?

thekochs,
Try these 2 threads for Reclock

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=352916&highlight=reclock

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=347379&highlight=reclock

N3W813 beat me to it.

jvincent,
u post whore u.....

(i think that's what im doing right now too) :P

Brian, did you ever try running without Denoise and using the AA/AF settings instead? I forget if you did and didn't like it.

Yes, but I cannot remember for the life of me what my opinion was now. ;(
I just ordered a new htpc case and some extra cooling so my computer is in pieces as we speak and I anxiously await the UPS man to do some more testing. I think I preferred having denoise3d after. But I was also comparing it using denoise3d before with slightly lower aa and af turned on.

Brian

I'm telling you, get your display calibrated really well and you won't need denoise. ;)

Originally posted by stylinlp
I don't have the last add so not sure which Celeron D it was. But it was around $69. Compared to $180 for a P4 3.0 800mz.

i would pay the extra $100, the flexibiltiy with more speed will make it much more valuable as an htpc. the celeron's are 'adequate' for most task, but not if you want to push the edge with ffdshow.

for me, i wish i had bought more in the beginning the extra $100 then would've saved me the $200-300 it's going to cost me to upgrade now. it's my fault because i thought i had enough cpu, but i didn't realize how much i wanted to tweak the HTPC. now that i'm tweaking a lot, i've run out of CPU and that's where I'm at. if you're *positive* you're not oging to tweak, the celeron is fine. but when tweaking is free, how can you *not* tweak.

Originally posted by cyberbri
I'm telling you, get your display calibrated really well and you won't need denoise. ;)

Er... hardly ;)

What kind of set are you using? I have a DLP, didn't really need denoise before, and with it properly calibrated it, DVDs look perfect and even non-HD TV looks as good or better than my CRT in the other room.

I never got how people could stand it anyway - every time I tried to turn it on and experiment, even with only a slight time setting, I'd immediately see skin start to float around. ;)

Two different sets... a 57" Hitachi RPTV and a Epson 500 720p LCD projector onto a 106" screen. Iuse AA/AF now for the Denoise affect, but I still need something or the mosquito noise drives me a bit mad.

Aah. I see. I have a 43" and sit 9' away and the picture couldn't be cleaner...

There is "noise" on DVDs, but it's more grain like from film. I add a tiny bit of grain with the Noise filter as well.

Originally posted by cyberbri
Aah. I see. I have a 43" and sit 9' away and the picture couldn't be cleaner...

There is "noise" on DVDs, but it's more grain like from film. I add a tiny bit of grain with the Noise filter as well. I'm surprised you can see any noise or DVD artifacts like mosquito noise at that distance.

BTW, I tried your exact settings (adding noise, etc., posted earlier) the other night and the picture looked horrendous. Sort of like a bad VHS tape. Maybe that's the difference from watching a 110" screen from only 12ft.

I use Denoise3D to kill the mosquito noise, but not nearly to the point where I see the crawling skin effect. I use it before the Resize with Fast turned off and am able to set small values like 0.3/0.6/5.0 no problem. Of course, with the Preview edition you can't use it after Resize unless Fast is checked (due to CPU load) and this fixes those numbers and also causes residual images.

Yeah, I've sat at about half the distance to check the picture while tweaking, and I know I wouldn't want to be less than 8' at this size. I could probably do a 46" or 50", but the 50" would be pushing it at this distance. ;) I'd love to have a 50" or 60", but I would want a much deeper room before trying that.

BTW, with denoise 3D, anything under .8 is treated at 0, IIRC. I seem to remember some comments about changing the two non-time sliders to steps/increments of 1, 2, 3, etc., rather than having it go by .01, since 0-.79 is all treated as 0. So the only thing that is making any difference in your "0.3/0.6/5.0" settings is the time setting.

Originally posted by cyberbri
BTW, with denoise 3D, anything under .8 is treated at 0, IIRC. I seem to remember some comments about changing the two non-time sliders to steps/increments of 1, 2, 3, etc., rather than having it go by .01, since 0-.79 is all treated as 0. So the only thing that is making any difference in your "0.3/0.6/5.0" settings is the time setting. I'm aware of those earlier statements, but I'd like to get the final word on all that. I don't think that's the case when not checking HQ or Fast. I am definitely seeing differences below 0.8 and I'm not changing the Time setting at all.

Lets put it another way assuming I'm imagining things:
If I have settings like I mentioned, and they are in reality at 0, then only the Time setting must be in effect. I know for a fact that turning off D3D puts back the moving mosquito noise. So this would mean just the Time setting alone is what is eliminating the moving mosquito noise. If that's really true, that would be fine with me as well, but then what's the point of the other settings? It looked like to me that they were adjusting the level of smoothing of the mosquito noise, but again, I'm open to rebuttal.

I'm just passing on what I heard (and apparently you heard as well). I don't know how that works, and maybe Andy, the guy (or one of the guys) doing the tweaks, could answer that.


If you put time at 0 or 0.01 or whatever, and have both sliders at .5, can you turn denoise on and off and see a difference?


EDIT:
I looked up Andy's post:
PS: some little notes on your denoise3d settings, all values from luma/chroma 0-0.8 will result in the same internal coefs aka it dont matter what u use. Also the coefs for time: 4-6 are nearly identical so dont waste time to try find the best setup since there is no diff. in those ranges.

EDIT:
There's a good discussion on Denoise from TheLion and Andy on page 102 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=246752&perpage=20&highlight=denoise%20time&pagenumber=102).

Please post your ffdshow settings in the following thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=447500

You guys asked for it, try to keep it afloat :)

Originally posted by cyberbri
If you put time at 0 or 0.01 or whatever, and have both sliders at .5, can you turn denoise on and off and see a difference?I'll try that and report back.

Cyberbri,

I suspect that the problems you are having with Denoise3d are partly to do with your DLP display. Other DLP owners have similar issues.

Noise in the image adds dither that is useful to minimize solarization problems inherent in many digital displays.
Once this noise is removed by Denoise3d, the solarization problems become more noticeable.

I am using a 57” CRT HD RPTV and view from 8’. Mosquito noise and compression artifacts are VERY obvious with DVD’s and even with 1080i HD content.

My viewing distance provides the MINIMUM 26deg viewing angle for watching movies (same as the back row in a cinema) and is also the MAXIMUM viewing distance for the eye to resolve 1920x1080 resolution on a 57” display.

For DVD’s I use Denoise before resize and set to L 0.5 (same as 0), C 1.0 (same as above 0.8), T 5.0 in HQ mode (same as not checking “Fast” in the preview build)

For 1080i HD I use T 3.0 and “Fast” mode. L and C values are ignored and set to 0 in “Fast” mode.


There are some side effects caused by Denoise3d, but I very rarely notice them on video with correct brightness and gamma adjustment.
Any minor and occasional visible artifacts caused by Denoise3d are FARE outweighed by the DRAMATIC reduction in noise and artifacts IMHO.

I don’t think you are helping anyone by suggesting that Denoise3d is bad and should be avoided.

Everyone needs to test Denoise3d for themselves, on there display to decide whether it works for them or not.



Regards,

Owen

___________________________
The FFDShow resize-sharpen dude.

Holy crap, 141 pages. Well I have a simple question so I hope most of you will forgive me for not delving into this nightmarishly long thread. I use power dvd V4.0. If I download just the latest free version of FFshow will I see a marked increase in PQ? As well Power dvd lets me out put DTS via SPDIF in the software, does FFshow as well?
Thanks in advance!

You do not have to read the whole thread but it is easy to search within this thread using the "search this thread:" at the top of the page. Your question is very basic.

FFdshow has nothing to do with spdif audio pass through. Zoomplayer is what you set up for the audio and video decoders. There is a lot of info out there, and a guide at hometheaterpcnews.com.

Brian

Cyberbri,

It must be that Time still has an effect. It looks better with L 8.0 and C 1.6.

More importantly, I ran many tests to find the cause of the filmy stationary grain that overlays moving low-level images. It is improved by very high Resize settings like 2160x1440, but never really goes away altogether. It turns out not to be caused by Denoise 3D or any other FFDShow setting. In fact I turned them all off and finally realized that it was the non-DXVA mode I was forced to run with using TheaterTek that caused the phenomenon!

Maybe I'm crazy, but turning on DXVA with no Post-Processing looks far better than any settings I can possibly do in FFDShow. Of course, I do get some moving film grain and compression artifacts, but it is very subdued compared to the horrible mosquito noise and blocking artifacts, as well as that filmy overlay caused by software decode mode.

I got all wrapped up in correcting something with FFDShow which had originally been indirectly caused by FFDShow in the first place. Unless I'm playing very badly transferred DVD's, I'm going to stick with good old DXVA hardware decoding for now.

Sounds like you had a fun time, heh. ;)

Have you tried using Zoom Player? You can get it for free (I wanted to give TT a try, but they don't even have a trial version).

And I know nothing about DXVA, but aren't DVDs run in Raw Video mode? Are you using DXVA to decode your DVDs, then?

Carey P,

The West End theatre --> Is this your in-home theater?
If so, wow, my god...
Maybe one of these days (most likely later rather than sooner)...


I guess we're in whole different ballparks with talking about what ffdshow settings work best, if that wasn't already apparent. ;)

Carey P,

The Sonic decoder used in TT is NOT recommended for use with FFDShow because of its very poor performance in software mode.
It exhibits terrible mosquito noise and compression artifacts.
DXVA mode works fine but cant be used with FFDShow.
You have found this out for yourself.

Almost any other decoder works better with FFDShow then Sonic.

Most experienced FFDShow users stopped using Sonic when WinDVD 4.5 Platinum was released.


Regards,

Owen

___________________________
The FFDShow resize-sharpen dude.

Owen how funny lol
I was JUST going to ask this question :)
Im rebuilding my buddies HTPC to a:

Athlon AMD3000 w/512 megs ram
Radeon 9600, Marquee 8500 CRT Projector, 84" screen
Theater Tek, WinXP

I was going to try to get Theater Tek to work with the newest non SSE2 optimized version of FFDshow. To try Resize of 1440x960.
So your saying not to do this because I won't realize much of an improvement over just running TT with DXVA?

I mean...pages and pages ago in this thread everyong with Theater Tek was using FFDshow. Now its considered not worth using untill TT2 comes out or switch to Zoomplayer or something like it?
I've stopped trying to use FFDshow also. I never saw any improvement so gave up. But never used resize because I only have a AMD1800 cpu.

Owen,

Thanks for the confirmation! I guess I had to finally prove this to myself the hard way, though it probably took too long.:rolleyes:

It seemed many people were using TT with FFDShow (there's even a selection for it in the Config menu), so I figured there must be something to it. In fact, it seemed to help with my old projector, which I guess was never good enough to show all those artifacts I'm seeing now.

I'd hate to break away from TT at this point, so close to the 2.0 version release. I'm hoping the latest NVidia decoders will work better.

Carey P,

If you have the time, give Zoom Player Pro a try. It won't hurt to give it a try, since it's free (shareware). Who knows, it could work much better for you.

You might also try the WinDVD 6 filters (you may need to do the DMO_V Abstract, change Pasteurization value to 0 in registry), as they seem to be very good.

Carey P/Owen,

Ugh........you're killin me. TT w/FFDshow is not recommended.........ugh. I have been playing with this thing for a month. Figured out that you must turn off DVXA to get TT to work w/FFDshow. I read all 140+ pages of posts and never saw a thing about Sonic (used in TT) not being good with FFDShow..heck even the "how-to guide" shows TT setup for FFDShow. Doesn't other players use Sonic too ? Wouldn't this be an issue there too ? I've just gotten to tweeking of FFDShow in my Radeon 9600XT thru DVI to Sony VPLHS20 to 110" screen, Audigy 2ZS with passthrough sound decded by Yamaha Receiver. However, I've been tweeking on a 18" LCD monitor not the 110" screen. Guess I need to try the 110" to really see the artifacts you are talking about.

The only reason I wanted FFDShow was to basically blow up the image to full screen and since FFDShow does a resize to better rez I thought this would help when I used TT and stretched the image to full screen. I then thought I could use FFDshow to reduce any other artifcacts for this "Stretch". I figured a stretch of 720x480 w/TT alone would not be as good as TT/wFFDShow at 1440x960 or greater.

Thoughts ?

FYI, does is matter that I play my DVDs from my HDD and when backing them up I did it with no compression...ala DVDShrink ? Figured this would improve quality too.

Thanks.

You know, after going down the Zoomplayer WinDVD filter, ffdshow, etc path I ended up buying TZT1.5 because there would be a free upgrade to 2.0 (when / if it ever happens). Getting impatient about the release of TT 2.0 I started playing with TT1.5. Now I've got that running in a dual boot system I actually prefer that I think over the tweaked ZP ffdshow WinDVD config. TT may have a bit more noise (DXVA mode) but in particular it has very fluid movement... (I do use reclock) I find myself just enjoying the movie and forgetting about the tweaking.

I've compared TT with and without ZP on some of the DVE resolution patterns and can't say with my system that it is a big improvement. Most of the published examples show overly sharpened images which appear to have more detail, but in practice look artificial to my eye. I'm wanting as close as I can get to a film experience, not a digital video one...

We'll see where it gets to with TT2.0 when that arrives... I suspect that will cost me shift to NVidia to get the best... ffdshow may have had its day.


Originally posted by Carey P
Cyberbri,

Maybe I'm crazy, but turning on DXVA with no Post-Processing looks far better than any settings I can possibly do in FFDShow. Of course, I do get some moving film grain and compression artifacts, but it is very subdued compared to the horrible mosquito noise and blocking artifacts, as well as that filmy overlay caused by software decode mode.

I got all wrapped up in correcting something with FFDShow which had originally been indirectly caused by FFDShow in the first place. Unless I'm playing very badly transferred DVD's, I'm going to stick with good old DXVA hardware decoding for now.

Originally posted by Owen:

Almost any other decoder works better with FFDShow then Sonic.

You keep making these broad comments about Sonic and as somebody with a screen that is almost twice as large as yours I simply do not understand how you can do it.

I have compared extensively each of the decoders and I keep coming back to good old Sonic no matter how hard I try. I've tried all windvd, powerdvd, elecard, etc and every time I see more fine detail and more powerful colors in Sonic.

Additionally, I can push my filters higer with Sonic than with the others.

Also in favor of Sonic is its easier to setup with ffdshow, no problems with macrovision, etc.

So no, I do not agree with you at all.

Brian

You would be darn near alone Brian... I'm with Owen on this one. Sonic is #4 on my list of preferred.

NVidia
Windvd 6
Elecard
Sonic

Hey Gazzagazza,

You mention DVXA.....do you have it turned on with TT ? If I turn DVXA on with TT & FFDshow is stutters very badly..........I've got a P4 2.6Ghz and only using 60%. Previous posts say you must turn it off. Also, Owens states in his post that the Sonic decoder is bad when in software mode (ie. DVXA off). So, I guess my question is your success based on the fact that DVXA is on and if so what is your setup ?

Thanks.

Originally posted by thekochs
Hey Gazzagazza,

You mention DVXA.....do you have it turned on with TT ? If I turn DVXA on with TT & FFDshow is stutters very badly..........I've got a P4 2.6Ghz and only using 60%. Previous posts say you must turn it off. Also, Owens states in his post that the Sonic decoder is bad when in software mode (ie. DVXA off). So, I guess my question is your success based on the fact that DVXA is on and if so what is your setup ?

Thanks.

At least with the recent versions of TT it does not matter if DVXA is turned on or off in TT's Video Menu. It's being simply ignored.
_____
Axel

Axel,

Can you explain ? I can turn DVXA off and on and the playback changes from stutter to smooth..when off.

Dunno about leaving it on and ffdshow post processing enabled. I choose no post processing and then put the tick in the DXVA box. I do need to use reclock to get absolute smoothness.

Originally posted by thekochs
Hey Gazzagazza,

You mention DVXA.....do you have it turned on with TT ? If I turn DVXA on with TT & FFDshow is stutters very badly..........I've got a P4 2.6Ghz and only using 60%. Previous posts say you must turn it off. Also, Owens states in his post that the Sonic decoder is bad when in software mode (ie. DVXA off). So, I guess my question is your success based on the fact that DVXA is on and if so what is your setup ?

Thanks.

Originally posted by thekochs
Axel,

Can you explain ? I can turn DVXA off and on and the playback changes from stutter to smooth..when off.

Where do you turn DXVA on/off? In TT or ?.
What versions of TT and ffdshow do you run?
____
Axel

@ stylinlp

For best picture quality it is definitely worth using a better decoder like WinDVD6 (can be had for free with the trial version), Elecard or the freeware one that is used in Dscaler5 (I have not tested that one).
You will need Zoom Player Pro or the free Media Player Classic to run the filters.

With the above player / decoder combinations you will notice the improvements that FFDShow has to offer.

Or you can just wait till TT2 is released, whenever that is.



Regards,

Owen

___________________________
The FFDShow resize-sharpen dude.

Originally posted by Carey P
Owen,

I'd hate to break away from TT at this point, so close to the 2.0 version release. I'm hoping the latest NVidia decoders will work better.

I am very confident that TT2, with the Nvidia decoder will be very good and be the equal of any other decoder option.
If only they would release the damn thing.

Regards,

Owen

___________________________
The FFDShow resize-sharpen dude.

You would be darn near alone Brian... I'm with Owen on this one. Sonic is #4 on my list of preferred.

Agreed, and I am using a large (5'x12') screen.

BTW, as soon as you introduce ffdshow into the graph, ALL decoders drop out of DXVA mode and revert to software decoding, no matter what you select in the config.

And the Sonic decoder really sucks in software mode....

Been doing the HTPC thing for 5 or so years, now, and....

As an early adopter of YXY for AR control (before ZP), a ZP/ffdshow user from the beginning, one of the persons on this forum that recognized the superiority of the WinDVD video decoder (you wouldn't believe the grief I originally received from certain other forum members), one of the extreme critics of the NVDVD 2.x licensing scheme, and also one of the early beta users of NVDVD 3.0 and then 4.0, I know of what I speak.

Vern

Hmm. Since I've been messing around with FFDshow in Theater Tek for a year now. So what your tell us Vern is that since I've put Theater Tek into software mode by using FFDshow that Theater Tek is stuck in software mode no matter is I select DVXA again or not?
I stopped using FFDshow untill I can upgrade my AMD1800 and been using Theater Tek in DVXA mode. Your saying im not in DVXA mode?

Hmm. I've been messing around with FFDshow in Theater Tek for a year now. So what your tell us Vern is that since I've put Theater Tek into software mode by using FFDshow that Theater Tek is stuck in software mode no matter if I select DVXA again or not?
I stopped using FFDshow untill I can upgrade my AMD1800 and been using Theater Tek in DVXA mode. Your saying im not in DVXA mode?

Owen & All,

I am running the latest TT (think it is 1.5.64 something) and the new 0801a SSE version of FFDShow. This new 0801a SSE version in Fast mode really helps. I have a 2.6Ghz P4 and 1GB memory. I'm using Carey P.'s config but I do use Sharpen Mask instead of D-Scaler. Didn't like the AVIsynth green fix. I use Denoise 3D with Fast and Lanscoz 4 tap with YV12 output. I can only run 1440x960 smoothly....above this gets jumpy. Note, I do not run ReClock...yet. Anyway, with 0801a SSE I can now put Sharpen after the resize and this helps a good bit........CPU @ 50%. I also did alot of comparing of 1440x960 versus the 1:1 to my Sony LCD VPHSL20 projector (via DVI) that is 1378x768. Frankly, the 1:1 of 1378x768 looked as good on 110" screen plus it gave me more CPU bandwidth. I found out on my system when the CPU usage gets over 65% in Task Manager it starts to drop frames and sometimes stutters. Thus, the new 0801a SSE gives me 45%-50% average with Sharpen AFTER resize. I also, spent some time going from TT-DVXA(off)/FFDShow(on) to TT-DVXA(on)/FFDShow(off) and comparing. I would say there may be a slight difference.....not much....in the favor of TT-DVXA(off)/FFDShow(on). Again, my real goal was to blow up the 720x480 DVD image to full screen (110") and hoping FFDShow post-processing from TT would make the clarity better than just a straight scale effect from TT & the Radeon 9600XT graphics card.

I'll start to take a look at Zoomplayer Pro but think I need to learn ReClock first. I have PowerStrip running so I'm concerned ReClock will mess with this ? I read the ReClock threads and up until 1.4 it seems real buggy. I used SP/DIF passthrough to my receiver so if someone could help me on how to setup in this type environment it would help......the threads don't really tell you a "how to". I'm hoping my system just requires a install and some quick setup items........a bullet list of "how to" would be great. Carey P. ?

Lastly, Owen if I wait to TT 2.0 does this really change anything ? I assume they will still use Sonic. I have a Radeon 9600XT card and I guess I'm reading I would have to buy a new nVidia graphics card to get whatever advantages from this combo ? Not going to happen, spent enough change$ & time to get this far.

Thanks for all the help guys !!!!!!!!!!

Has the fast mode crash problem been resolved?

stylinlp,

If you checked DXVA and set "Disabled" for PP in TT, then you are running DXVA. You can always use the Task Manager and look at CPU usage with DXVA checked or unchecked and it will show a difference.

thekochs,

With your new settings of FFDShow, you will get latent images (among the other horrible effects of the Sonic decoders in software mode). This is from using the D3D after Resize. But if you use it before Resize, you must turn off the Fast option. Lets leave it at that for now. It's all been discussed before.

I'm really surprised that you don't see the greesy film effect on low level panning, which really shows up bad if not resizing as high as possible. It's like a fixed pattern of noise that lags behind the real image as it moves around. I have the same projector as you with a Radeon 9500Pro running DVI. You must have the contrast set too high and are losing this detail in the black. If not, enjoy.

Also, you should not be seeing any difference with DXVA on or off when FFDShow is enabled. It is forced off internally. You may be imagining this.:cool:

You mentioned comparing 1440x960 to 1:1 of 1378x768. But the latter is not possible to set in Resize as the first number doesn't divide by 16. Also, you can not have this set as a resolution for the ATI card either, since the projector won't accept it. The best you can do is set the ATI resolution to 1368x768 and Resize to 1376x768 and this will still cause scaling, albeit only slightly in the H dimension only. Unfortunately, higher Resize is necessary to subdue all the bad effects from Sonic software mode. If you don't do anything else in FFDShow but Resize to that dimension (using Lanczos or Bicubic, or whatever), you will see a much worse picture than simply using DXVA and no FFDShow and let ATI do the scaling. Try this experiment and look at solid backgrounds carefully during camera movements, especially at lower levels. It's the Sonic decoders in software mode that make this really bad. Then you are trying to clean this up with further Postprocesing in FFDShow, but can never get it quite as good as it looks in DXVA mode.

TT2.0 will have NVidia decoders but you can use these with the Radeon just fine in software mode and hopefully these problems will go away. It may be a further advantage to have a nVidia graphics card so you can also use hardware mode, but it's not a necessity. I hope I got that right.

If you use Reclock with the HS20, you won't get it set up where you get a Green icon. This is because it runs at 56Hz and the closest Reclock can sync perfectly to is a 60Hz refresh. You will get a Yellow icon, but it may still provide some smoothing on very fast pans. It takes a keen eye to see any difference if at all. It won't take much more CPU power to use - maybe 1~2%. I can turn it off and really don't notice any difference in pans, so sometimes I don't use it because occasionally it will cause a quick audio dropout a couple of times through a DVD, noticeable during long sustained background music. The reason I might use it, is to avoid possible lipsync drift with DTS which may also depend on the driver I'm using. This is probably an M-audio issue really. Without Reclock I have no frame skips, jumps or jerky pans at 56Hz. I'm quite amazed. If you use Reclock, use version 1.4 and just select it as the audio renderer in the TT Audio tab. Try using the default settings in Reclock config, but set both refresh rates under the second tab to 23.976Hz for film DVD's. Good luck.

Theater Tek is stuck in software mode no matter if I select DVXA again or not

No, that's not what I said.

This is what I said:

as soon as you introduce ffdshow into the graph, ALL decoders drop out of DXVA mode and revert to software decoding, no matter what you select in the config.

That means that if you have ffdshow selected, no matter what else you do, you are in software mode.

Of course, if you deselect ffdshow, than this statement no longer is true.

Simple logic.....

Vern

Originally posted by thekochs
"Originally posted by Owen & stylinlp

For best picture quality it is definitely worth using a better decoder like WinDVD6 (can be had for free with the trial version), Elecard or the freeware one that is used in Dscaler5 (I have not tested that one).
You will need Zoom Player Pro or the free Media Player Classic to run the filters.

With the above player / decoder combinations you will notice the improvements that FFDShow has to offer.

Or you can just wait till TT2 is released, whenever that is."

******************************************************

Owen and/or Stylinlp,

Dumb question..........I looked at Zoom Player and geeze I guess I'm just FFDShowed, ReClocked, etc. out.....Zoom Player seems like a ton of work to configure and understand. I'm using TT because it is easy and fairly straight forward but obviously now looks like alot of limits with its Sonic use. So, do I learn ZP Pro for free, buy TT 2.0 whenever/whatever it is, or do I buy WinDVD6 ? Time & Ease-of-Use are money to me so paying $50-$60 is fine if it saves a ton of headaches and late nights but the results are good. I think you are menitioning WinDVD6 with ZP Pro ? Can you just buy WinDVD6 and like TT just select FFSDShow for post processing & audio SP/DIF passthrough in its config ? I'm sure there is a WinDVD6 thread somewhere.

FYI, I use myHTPC now but will move to Meedio once all this is done. They have an internal player but their Forums say it uses your installed decoders.

Thanks.

thekochs your post got me thinking. Im not the one to be asking your question too because I just use Theater Tek with Meedio. I never used Zoomplayer.
But I was thinking, Meedio is pretty much like Zoomplayer I guess. Maybe more limited. But you can use the Meedio player to use any Codexs just like Zoomplayer. Maybe you can use the WinDVD6 codex with Meedio's player. I dont know if you can get WinDVD6 for free. I would like to try it with MEedio and see how it stacks up with Theater Tek. But I would miss the Theater Tek Aspect Ratio control.

Ive been waiting for Theater Tek 2 to come out.

I STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND why its a waste of time to use FFDshow with Theater Tek. Many people were doing it. Now people are coming out of the woodwork since OWEN came out with that statement. Saying that they see no differance in image quality using FFDshow vs just plain DVXA in Theater Tek.

You can get WinDVD 6 codecs for free.
Download the trial WinDVD 6 player software, and just use the codecs in ZP. That's what I do.


You may need to do something to fix a bug (freezing screen) when using ZP and WinDVD codecs:

In ZP, before FFDSHOW in the Additional Filters box, select "DMO_V Abstract" and put it before FFDSHOW in the list.

Then run "regedit" to get to the registry, and change the value for the Pasteurization filter to 0. This should be in:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER -> Software -> Intervideo -> DVD 6 -> Pasteurization -> R-Click "Intensity" and select Modify to change value to 0.


So ZP, WinDVD 6 codec, and ffdshow - this should get you set up good. It's what I use, and I'm very satifsfied with it, although I'm no expert and haven't done comparisons with other codecs (although I've seen other people say WinDVD codecs are very good). You have to pay for the Sonic codecs just to try them, and I wasn't willing to do that, of pay $70 for TT. I'm glad I didn't, because I got all my problmes fixed and won't worry about upgrading ffdshow unless something major (new, better Lanscoz optimizations, etc.) comes out.

Originally posted by Carey P

thekochs,

With your new settings of FFDShow, you will get latent images (among the other horrible effects of the Sonic decoders in software mode). This is from using the D3D after Resize. But if you use it before Resize, you must turn off the Fast option. Lets leave it at that for now. It's all been discussed before.

I'm really surprised that you don't see the greesy film effect on low level panning, which really shows up bad if not resizing as high as possible. It's like a fixed pattern of noise that lags behind the real image as it moves around. I have the same projector as you with a Radeon 9500Pro running DVI. You must have the contrast set too high and are losing this detail in the black. If not, enjoy.

Also, you should not be seeing any difference with DXVA on or off when FFDShow is enabled. It is forced off internally. You may be imagining this.:cool:

You mentioned comparing 1440x960 to 1:1 of 1378x768. But the latter is not possible to set in Resize as the first number doesn't divide by 16. Also, you can not have this set as a resolution for the ATI card either, since the projector won't accept it. The best you can do is set the ATI resolution to 1368x768 and Resize to 1376x768 and this will still cause scaling, albeit only slightly in the H dimension only. Unfortunately, higher Resize is necessary to subdue all the bad effects from Sonic software mode. If you don't do anything else in FFDShow but Resize to that dimension (using Lanczos or Bicubic, or whatever), you will see a much worse picture than simply using DXVA and no FFDShow and let ATI do the scaling. Try this experiment and look at solid backgrounds carefully during camera movements, especially at lower levels. It's the Sonic decoders in software mode that make this really bad. Then you are trying to clean this up with further Postprocesing in FFDShow, but can never get it quite as good as it looks in DXVA mode.

TT2.0 will have NVidia decoders but you can use these with the Radeon just fine in software mode and hopefully these problems will go away. It may be a further advantage to have a nVidia graphics card so you can also use hardware mode, but it's not a necessity. I hope I got that right.

******************************************************
Carey P.,

Meant to post 1376x768. I use Powerstrip to set to the 1368x768 rez, I could not get ATI to drive the timings to drive the Sony VPLHS20. It was locked at 1024x768. Alot of painful discussions here on that: http://www.stevenhightower.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=vpl-hs20
Don't want to waste this forums time but if ATI can can drive VPLHS20 in 1368x768 let me know the details.

Definitely not imaging things when I go from DVXA on versus off in TT config using FFDShow. Task Manager is open and I do see the CPU drop since it is using hardware but the video starts skipping badly.....even at 45% usage. Turn DVXA off.........everything works fine.

I use D3D before resize......with Fast Mode checked, and Sharpen after resize. This doesn't looks bad. I run some DVDs like Top Gun and it looks fuzzy/filmy.....some like Americna Pie where there is alot of face shots in first few scenes and it looks good. The Sharpen filter (think I use un-sharpen at 30) really helps. Also, much better when after Rezise. 1440x960 works but again it seems when Task Manager shows about 65% usage the video skips intermittantly. May need reclock ? Anyway, going down to 1376x768 1:1 with D3D with Fast my CPU 0s 45%-50%....this is even with Sharpen after Resize.

Right now I'm pretty frustrated because with all this work I agree that TT w/ DVXA and no FFDShow may be a wash. Thus, I just posted another item to Own if I should buy WinDVD6, uninstall TT, and go down that route. Just not sure if WinDVD6 is as easy as TT to integrate with FFDShow and ultimately myHTPC==>Meedio.

Thanks for all the discussion........how others get insight from this discussion. I'm trying to keep on-topic.

Originally posted by stylinlp
........Meedio is pretty much like Zoomplayer I guess. Maybe more limited. But you can use the Meedio player to use any Codecs just like Zoomplayer. Maybe you can use the WinDVD6 codec with Meedio's player. I dont know if you can get WinDVD6 for free. I would like to try it with Meedio and see how it stacks up with Theater Tek. But I would miss the Theater Tek Aspect Ratio control.

Since I'm a myHTPC user I've been reading all the posts on Meedio. It is a "front-end" player like myHTPC that uses your installed decoders. For DVD playback is has its own internal "player" but you can run an external player like WinDVD or TT (kinda clumsy how you enable this). Anyway, Meedio is pretty new and I have not started playing with it......cause I'm playing with FFDShow.....ugh. Meedio "does" have a full screen mode and AR adjustment section.......have not played with it though.

As you know doing a HTPC is big effort so paying $50-$60 for something good that is canned is worth it to me. I like TT and did pay the $65 for 1.x but instead of paying another $50 or so for TT 2.0 I may move to WinDVD if its codecs are really much better. Guess I'll try the trial version but don't want to have to use ZP Pro and learn all that codec stuff. I'm hoping the WinDVD6 Gold/Platinum player/decoder allows postprocessing using FFDShow without using ZP........does anyone know this ?.

Regards

Originally posted by thekochs
I'm hoping the WinDVD6 Gold/Platinum player/decoder allows postprocessing using FFDShow without using ZP........does anyone know this ?.

Regards

You need either TT or ZP to use ffdshow.

Although FWMM 3 does allow you to use FFDShow internally. It's the only other one I've personally seen though.

Just found this great site for calibrating your display, for free:
http://www.displaycalibration.com/

Originally posted by JDLIVE
You need either TT or ZP to use ffdshow.

Well, that answers that. I guess I either turn off FFDShow in TT and use DVXA, wait for TT 2.0 (whatever/whenever that is) or bite the bullet and learn to use Zoom Player Pro with FFDShow and perhaps the WinDVD6 decoder filters.

By the way what is FWMM3 ?

ZP is very simple, very straight-forward. I don't know about TT or how complicated it is. But I could even write step-by-step instructions on setting up ZP, ffdshow and WinDVD 6 - I went through it with one guy in Europe using MSN Messenger...

NVidia's Forceware Multimedia App.

Originally posted by cyberbri
ZP is very simple........I could even write step-by-step instructions on setting up ZP, ffdshow and WinDVD 6 - I went through it with one guy in Europe using MSN Messenger...

Man oh man........will I take you up on this offer. I'm sure there are alot of folks reading this Forum that would like the step-by-step install/setup. While I'm pretty technical, reading & doing are two different things so please break the steps into simple as possible. Basically I want to get/install Zoom Player Pro with FFDShow & WinDVD6 codecs (I know this is different than their full player on the InterVideo website). Personally, I will be playing DVDs from my HDD. Right now, I have myHTPC running but will move to Meedio (different discussion).

Also, one other point to note for me is that I'm running SP/DIF passthrough of my audio to my receiver/amp where this is decoding it. TT has a passthrough option for audio and my Audigy 2 ZS sound cards is set for SP/DIF passthrough out.

Thanks !

All,

Sorry for all the posts but I'm looking for the cleanest & simplest combo way of having a Home Theater front-end that launches DVDs etc. Clearly FFDShow needs to be part of this. I have myHTPC and plan to go to Meedio. I currently use TT enabling FFDShow......with the issues of Sonic.
I know I have to put more $$ and time into solving this and anyone reading my previous posts can see my sense of frustration.........anyway.

I've been reading up on Meedio and as you may know they have an internal player but need external decoders. I noticed in their documenation that you can enable FFDShow.
http://www.meedio.com/WebHelp/Meedio_Essentials_Help.htm

I assume from this I could uniisntall TT and just buy the WinDVD6 decoders from the link ?: http://www.intervideo.com/products/custom/ms/windowsxp/media_pack.jsp
Question, how do you know if these are the InterVideo WinDVD6 decoders ?

Any thoughts on the above ?

You shouldn't have to buy anything for the WinDVD 6 codecs. Just download and install the trial version of the WinDVD 6 software (codecs are included with install). Even after the trial ends, you should still have the codecs on your computer and be able to use them with ZP or whatever.

I thought you could do all this with Meedio and it looks like you can. Question is would you want to. VLAD and other nVIdia forceware beta testers are are saying that those new codexs beat other ones hands down. Im going to wait for another year till Theater Tek 2 comes out :)

That they do.. that they do.

cyberbri,

Being in the software biz myself, I prefer to purchase the software. Would the link (http://www.intervideo.com/products/.../media_pack.jsp) that thekochs proposed work? The link specifies WMP, but the decoders should be there, right?

Getting the trial version, but not purchasing anything doesn't feel right to me. If all my users did that, then I would be out of a job. I also don't want to spend $49 for just the decoders if I can get those for $15. I'm never going to use WinDVD. I just want the decoders.

As a TT user, however, I may end up waiting for 2.0 anyway.

Ahh. I'm not sure what that media pack includes...
Sorry.

Did you read this page?
http://www.intervideo.com/media_pack/jsp/Product_Profile.jsp?p=DVDXPack
It sounds like the DVD pack would have the codecs (not sure which ones), as it's supposed to let you watch DVDs in WMP with this...

It certainly sounds like it would work. It's all the stuff about integration with WMP that makes me wonder. It's worth a shot though.

I am becoming more and more interested in all the negative comments regarding sonic decoders and a common thread is that many people making the comments use Theatertek?

Its really strange to me because I have a very revealing crt at 100in screen so I can see any small change. When I switch back and forth between windvd6 and sonic and others and sonic in zoom I do get a slightly "smoother" picture with the others but its almost a pasteurized image. Sonic is a bit grainier but it is also the most filmlike with the best 3d contrast and sharpness.

With your new settings of FFDShow, you will get latent images (among the other horrible effects of the Sonic decoders in software mode).

I have never seen anything approaching this in any shape or form!!!!!?

***As somebody who was often accused of being too much of a videophile (and who Toshiba television company got to know real well when I exposed their RPTV flaws on hometheaterspot.com) its odd I am on the other side of the opinion on this issue.***

So tell me what the heck are others seeing that I am not?

Brian

To me, the Sonic decoders are softer and do not render as clean an image. It lacks punch. I'm also not keen on the colors without extensive tweaking. As with everything we do Brian... in theend it's a matter of taste ;)

Not that it really matters, but add me to the "like TT with ffdshow" camp.

I found that with DXVA the image was too soft. Add a little ffdshow (resize with luma sharpening) and I like the result much better.

As with all things, it's a matter of preference.

So jvincent, you are the only one so far that has come out lately and stated that Theater Tek with resized in FFDshow looks better than Just plain TT in DVXA mode. I was starting to get worried. I don't know what to think anymore! ack :(

I've stayed out of this debate since what really matters is whether you, as an individual, like what you see or not.

Personally, I don't like what Denoise3D does for my particular combo of display, graphics card, codec, etc. The fact that others do, is fine.

I spent a LOT of time trying different combos before settling on my current one (resize to 1440x960, lanczos 4, luma at 1). I'd suggest that others do the same.

Of course, when TT 2.0 comes out I'll probably have to do this again.

One thing that's worth mentioning in all of this is that it's important to have the greyscale, brightness, contrast set "properly" when doing all of these evaluations. It makes a big difference.

I second that thought.

I spent a lot of time trying to calibrate with Levels and the Overlay panel to get my picture just right. Then I properly calibrated my actual set, and now no longer need to use the Overlay panel adjustments. The PQ has never been so good. ( I think I came back and talked about my experience here in the last week or so, calibrating and getting a much, much better PQ).

BTW, you will lose the decoders in windvd6 if you do not purchase the program. How do i know? My 15 day trial period just ended (and I dont think i want to renew it given its macrovision issues with vmr9).

Brian

Originally posted by usabrian
...Its really strange to me because I have a very revealing crt at 100in screen so I can see any small change. When I switch back and forth between windvd6 and sonic and others and sonic in zoom I do get a slightly "smoother" picture with the others but its almost a pasteurized image. Sonic is a bit grainier but it is also the most filmlike with the best 3d contrast and sharpness.

I have never seen anything approaching this in any shape or form!!!!!?

So tell me what the heck are others seeing that I am not?Well, I think I already explained that best I could, and at least Owen agrees with me on it. But I want to emphasize that everything looks great in bright scenes using FFDShow and the Sonic decoders. Certainly the picture looks sharper and more 3D like and you can correct the colors and all that. But look at the dark scenes, if you have the ability to see the low-level detail, which I do of late. Pay attention to the fixed backgrounds as the camera pans slowly, for instance. It's too much for me to accept. If you really can't see any of these problems using TT and FFDShow, then you must be doing something right, though I really can't se what that could be. BTW, I'm using the Cat 4.6 drivers at the moment, if that makes any difference.

I guess I'm just very particular about video quality, but I will just not accept even a few scenes (even with a very good transfer) if they look lower quality than running DXVA with Sonic. I will just have to wait until TT2.0, as I don't want to screw with ZP and a bunch of other stuff to change decoders at this point. Too close to my Star Wars party anyway.:p

As far as the latent images go, this is an easy thing to see if using the latest Preview FFDSHow and D3D "after" Resize with Fast checked (of course). Look at Star Wars beginning where it goes from bright letters "In a Galaxy..." and then to black. You will see the letters still there. Or chapter jump forward to a black scene after a bright one. The latent image stays until wiped out by a brighter one. This can't be a good thing. 'Nuff said for now.

Originally posted by usabrian
BTW, you will lose the decoders in windvd6 if you do not purchase the program. How do i know? My 15 day trial period just ended (and I dont think i want to renew it given its macrovision issues with vmr9).

Brian

That's weird. I'm still using mine, way after the trial period ended...

I had opened the program the night before to track down an issue and maybe that is what triggered it. So...dont open it ever!

Brian

That's what I was afraid of. I was thinking of trying to open it to make sure the trial's over, but didn't want to risk it. Hehe.

To cyberbri "colorspace to YV12 for resize"
Good trick.

You wrote:
In ffdshow, you should have Raw Video set to ALL. Then try these settings:
Sharpen - unsharpen mask - strength 1 (to convert colorspace to YV12 for resize)
Resize - 2x DVD resolution, no AR correction"

Can I convert colorspace to YV12 before resize with something else (blur, offset,....), because I like sharpen (swscaler) after resize ?
Thanx.

Originally posted by usabrian
BTW, you will lose the decoders in windvd6 if you do not purchase the program. How do i know? My 15 day trial period just ended (and I dont think i want to renew it given its macrovision issues with vmr9).

Brian

Anydvd fixes the Macrovision problems that Windvd has with VRM9.

Well, I'll chime in with another TT + ffdshow supporter. I really don't understand why some people think its worse. Maybe these later builds of ffdshow messed something up? I'm using ffdshow with gradual denoise + resize to 1280x720 + luma sharpen 1.0. There is no doubt that the picture is better than without ffdshow. The image is incredibly soft, almost blurry, without ffdshow in the mix on a 100" screen.

I do not use denoise3d as I think it makes the picture look worse - although I can't remember now exactly what I didn't like about it. Excessive luma sharpen also makes it look worse (I remember some people from before using it cranked up to the max which I think is unwatchable practically).

As for the latent image, I do get that on a few specific disks, but its not a widespread problem. The only disc I remember specifically is on the movie "May", which I watched like 4 months ago. Since then I've not seen another movie exhibit the problem. If you get this on every movie you might have something set up wrong.

There is no latent image using TT+ffdshow during low APL scenes on my setup and I am very particular about video quality.

just to toss in my .02 (if that much!) i tried the windvd6 codecs last nite, i noticed a little more detail--particularly in dark area detail but it was not huge to me. given the choice of paying for another set of filters i would not do it. the difference were definately minor to me, so i echo what has been said--if it looks good to you then don't worry about it too much.

btw, one odd thing with the windvd filters, if i FFWD in ZoomPlayer i lose the picture will freeze but continue to fastforward--where with the Sonic filters i continue to see the movie play in FFWD mode.

Originally posted by stylinlp
I thought you could do all this with Meedio and it looks like you can. Question is would you want to. VLAD and other nVIdia forceware beta testers are are saying that those new codexs beat other ones hands down. Im going to wait for another year till Theater Tek 2 comes out :)

OK, dumb question here........you're saying that TT2.0 will not use Sonic anymore but move to Codecs from NVidia ?

Thanks.

Originally posted by stylinlp
I thought you could do all this with Meedio and it looks like you can. Question is would you want to. VLAD and other nVIdia forceware beta testers are are saying that those new codexs beat other ones hands down. Im going to wait for another year till Theater Tek 2 comes out :)

OK, dumb question here........you're saying that TT2.0 will not use Sonic anymore but move to Codecs from NVidia ?

Thanks.

Originally posted by VictorD
To cyberbri "colorspace to YV12 for resize"
Good trick.

You wrote:
In ffdshow, you should have Raw Video set to ALL. Then try these settings:
Sharpen - unsharpen mask - strength 1 (to convert colorspace to YV12 for resize)
Resize - 2x DVD resolution, no AR correction"

Can I convert colorspace to YV12 before resize with something else (blur, offset,....), because I like sharpen (swscaler) after resize ?
Thanx.

Yes, anything should work. I used to use my Levels filter, which I have on anyway, but someone suggested I convert to YV12 before changing the levels. So turn on blur or something and move your sharpen to after the resize. You just need something there, otherwise the screen will go all green.

Originally posted by minhi

btw, one odd thing with the windvd filters, if i FFWD in ZoomPlayer i lose the picture will freeze but continue to fastforward--where with the Sonic filters i continue to see the movie play in FFWD mode.

That used to happen on mine as well. That's why I did the DMO_V Abstract filter fix. That fix also fixed my "freezing video every 5-10 minutes problem," which almost caused me to give up using my HTPC for DVD-watching. Once I got the fix set up, got the new WinDVD codecs (just dl'ed the trial player), and everything set up good, I don't have to touch it at all. Calibrated my set really well and everything looks better than ever before. :)

Originally posted by thekochs
OK, dumb question here........you're saying that TT2.0 will not use Sonic anymore but move to Codecs from NVidia ?

Correct.

I'm trying for the first time to get FFD running, using a simple 'how to' of HTPCNEWS. With both TheaterTek and ZoomPlayer, using the Sonic codecs installed by TT, as soon as the DVD play operation begins I get the FFD icon in the system tray then the player crashes.

I'm using the 20040828 version.

I've disabled all FFD codecs except 'raw', which is set to 'all supported', and de-selected all filters, ie. all I've got checked is 'OSD'. Clearly there's something basic wrong with my setup but I can't begin to think what.

I have a R9600 using Catalyst 4.3 drivers on XP Pro.

Can anyone suggest something basic I've done or not done that would cause FFD to crash effectively doing nothing.

Cheers.

Did you set the ffdshow output to YV12? Did you add the AllowAllRenderers keyword to the registry? Are you using an SSE2 version on an AMD system?

Vern

Thanks for the suggestions Vern.


I'm running a P4, 2 systems one with a 3.0 Prescott and the other a 2.8 Northwood. I don't know about different versions, I just downloaded the latest off Sourceforge .. since posting I've also tried the 20040808 version and it too crashes.

The FFD icon's tooltip shows it's running in YV12.

As for AllowAllRenderers, I don't have thay key. I Googled and found a reference to a thread in HTPCNews's forums which indicated this is a setting for the Sonic drivers .. but I don't have any 'HKLM\Software\Sonic' tree into which I can set it.

[edit]

Silly me, this PC doesn't have the Sonic codecs on! On this one I'm running the Cyberlink codecs and the crash is the same, so it's not related to the Sonic codecs.

I disabled hardware support, just in case ... it didn't make a difference.

I've just found it works when playing MPGs files! So there's some problem in DVD mode, somehow.

The crash is in CLVSD.AX BTW, if that indicates the nature of the problem, it's the Cyberlink video codec.

Originally posted by Vern Dias
Did you set the ffdshow output to YV12? Did you add the AllowAllRenderers keyword to the registry? Are you using an SSE2 version on an AMD system?

Vern

Vern,

I am using TT & SSE2 version, P4 2.6Ghz.....lastest Alpha and it works fine. I have YUY2 as input and YV12 as output. I never did this "registry entry". Is there a post for it ? Funny, it is hard to find in all 144pages.

Thanks.

I just installed TT on this PC and AllowAllRenderes is set to 1. I too am seeing YUY2->YV12 in FF's system tray tool tip. When using TT it's FFDSHOW that's crashing, if I leave the crash dialog on-screen the DVD audio continues to play.

I don't get it, how come the thing just won't run for me at all? :(

AllowAllRenderers is under HKLM\Software\Sonic\Cinemaster DS DVD\2.5\VideoDecoder

Hi KraGorn,

I've been doing the same thing as you tonight, trying to get ffdshow to work with dvd's... Xvid etc works fine with processing, but as soon as I change the raw mode to "all supported", I get the same hang (which is ffdshow hanging, not the player).

My HW config is p4 like yours; I only used the sourceforge builds.

I've tested with Media Player Classic and Zoom Player pro. I used the WinDVD filters. Also tested a few combinations of FFD versions too, all crashing the same.

If you find the solution- PM me!

Cheers, Jon

TT automatically does the registry entry for you.

To those having ffdshow crashing:

Set up with ffdshow in the graph and no ffdshow options enabled until you get it running.
If you have the version of ffdshow that supports audio processing, make sure all audio options are disabled.

If you have a P4, then use ffdshow-20040709_SSE2.exe.

And finally, ffdshow won't work at all with the PowerDVD decoders, which are junk anyhow.

Vern

I've barely been up and running with my HTPC for almost two weeks now and I've been noticing a strange issue with DVD menus. When I play a DVD it seems like DVD menus are fairly choppy for some reason, but when I play the movie there are no problems at all. Any ideas what this is all about?

I'm resizing the image in ffdshow to 1440 x 960, but I wouldn't think that would be the problem since the movies play fine.

I am using the sonic codecs along with zoom player. I've also got the following hardware specs:
Athlon XP 2400+ mobile CPU (overclocked to 2.4 ghz)
512 megs of PC3200 RAM
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (128 megs of memory)

It could be the codecs, although I've never used Sonic codecs so I don't know of any specific problems with them.

But I did have trouble with menus in the past, and they were resolved when I upgraded my codecs...

Originally posted by KraGorn
I'm trying for the first time to get FFD running, using a simple 'how to' of HTPCNEWS. With both TheaterTek and ZoomPlayer, using the Sonic codecs installed by TT, as soon as the DVD play operation begins I get the FFD icon in the system tray then the player crashes.

I'm using the 20040828 version.

I've disabled all FFD codecs except 'raw', which is set to 'all supported', and de-selected all filters, ie. all I've got checked is 'OSD'. Clearly there's something basic wrong with my setup but I can't begin to think what.

I have a R9600 using Catalyst 4.3 drivers on XP Pro.

Can anyone suggest something basic I've done or not done that would cause FFD to crash effectively doing nothing.

Cheers.

Check your source material. I was having similar problems, and came across some info that said that ffdshow has problems with PAL content. Sure enough I checked my DVD source material and it was PAL. Tried an NTSC disc and it worked fine.

Originally posted by MadsenD
Check your source material. I was having similar problems, and came across some info that said that ffdshow has problems with PAL content. Sure enough I checked my DVD source material and it was PAL. Tried an NTSC disc and it worked fine.

For PAL set these:

Sonic
"HardCodeForPAL"=dword:00000001

Windvd
"DXVAPAL"=dword:00000001

There are various ways this can be automated.

Yes, by import the reg files.

http://rennfast.dns2go.com/Public/HTPC/ffdshow/ntscpal.zip

FFDShow has absolutely no issues with PAL.
Some decoders need registry changes but FFDShow just works.

I live in PAL land and have been using Zoom Player with FFDShow since the early days without any FFDShow - PAL related problems.


Regards,

Owen

___________________________
The FFDShow resize-sharpen dude.

The menus thing happens to me on menus with heavy CGI effects. They spike my processor to hell and back. Same with heavy CGI movies.

The menu problem is probably the fact that they are at 30fps while the movie is 24fps so you're processing a WHOLE lot more frames (enough to push your processor over the edge).

Originally posted by pcgeek
The menu problem is probably the fact that they are at 30fps while the movie is 24fps so you're processing a WHOLE lot more frames (enough to push your processor over the edge).

You know what? I never thought of that. I bet anything that's the issue. The movies that I notice the problem with work completely fine (in regards to the menus) with the standalone DVD player, but when I use the HTPC they seem to fail at the menus. Is there any way to solve this? Should I run at a lower resolution like 1280 x 720 (which my TV displays natively anyway)? Maybe that would help a little.

I don't think a codec upgrade is in the works since, as far as I know, the sonic codecs I bought were the latest release.

As for DVDs in PAL format. I have been having this issue with DVDs that I have bought here in the US in NTSC format.

My thanks to those who spotted the obvious .. I'm in PAL land and it was a PAL DVD. After setting that registry value it now works fine.

Thanks guys.

You could resize to a lower resolution which would help, but unless you watch video-sourced DVD's, I just accept that the menu's will stutter and watch the movie in it's full glory.

That's probably part of it, but not all of it. Try playing the opening of Big Fish with that badly generated CGI fish in the badly generated CGI water. THis is the actual movie, not the menus. It crushes my system as well.

Originally posted by madpoet
That's probably part of it, but not all of it. Try playing the opening of Big Fish with that badly generated CGI fish in the badly generated CGI water. THis is the actual movie, not the menus. It crushes my system as well.

Madpoet,

Can you list your system config and how you setup FFDShow ? Be curious to see. Also, what % usage for your CPU other times ?

Regards.

Could there be a scratch there or something?

Does it do it with other CG movies as well (FF:SW, Pixar, Kaena, etc.)?

I'll try those tonight. I'll be honest, I also haven't tried it since totally rebuilding my system around the 6800. Have to test things tonight.

thekochs- I use FFDShow at this point strictly for Resize. I use the trick to convert the color space down prior to resize, then apply Resizae as Lancosz4 at 1920x1920. I've also tossed in a bit of sharpening there, but I don't remember off the top of my head how much. I keep trying to decide between Denoise3d and usign AA/AF instead.

I guess I just don't understand how CG movies or bad CG in a movie can slow down performance. What makes that bit of binary information on a DVD different from a non-CG movie or scene?

No idea... just what I've had problems with. Like I said, I'll check it on my new setup tonight.

I understand that the registry needs to be modified for winDVD to work with Zoomplayer. I cannot for the life of me see the "pasteurization" option in there. I looked under the exact spot indicated in this thread and even tried the instructions on page 142. I did find an option that mentioned intensity but changing that from 180 to 0 had no effect. Has anyone who RECENTLY downloaded the winDVD 6 trial been able to make this work? I'm thinking that something changed. Of course the freeze bug stopped now with the additional filter set up but the picture looks.......color challenged. Those of you that know what needs to be done know what I am referring to. I am a recent convert from the Sonic decoders so please help me so I don't have to go back to them :(

In Zoom Player, in the "Additional FIlters" section where ffdshow is, select "DMO_V Abstract," Then move it above ffdshow. This will have Zoom Player to call up that filter. But to turn the effect of that filter off, you have to change intensity.
So go to Start -> Run -> regedit
HKEY_CUrrent_User -> Software -> Intervideo -> DVD6 -> Pasteurization -> Intensity -> Right click, select Modify, and change value to 0

Correct, that's exactly what I did. The Pasteurization value is not in the registry. The additional filter is set up correctly and I can certainly modify a registry but the value simply is not there. *sigh* I have stared at the screen.......wish I could just post a screen shot to show it. Another poster mentioned not seeing this value as well.

Can I create the value???? Is it a Dword value or.......?

Do you have a folder called "iviMovieRescale"? This folder has a value called intensity factor.

Are you sure you're in:
HKEY_CUrrent_User -> Software ???
and not in Current Config or Local Machine or something?

If you have the DMO_V Abstract running, but the intensity isn't changed, you wouldn't be able to watch the movie at all.

Originally posted by HT-Obsession
I understand that the registry needs to be modified for winDVD to work with Zoomplayer. I cannot for the life of me see the "pasteurization" option in there. I looked under the exact spot indicated in this thread and even tried the instructions on page 142. I did find an option that mentioned intensity but changing that from 180 to 0 had no effect. Has anyone who RECENTLY downloaded the winDVD 6 trial been able to make this work? I'm thinking that something changed. Of course the freeze bug stopped now with the additional filter set up but the picture looks.......color challenged. Those of you that know what needs to be done know what I am referring to. I am a recent convert from the Sonic decoders so please help me so I don't have to go back to them :(

i just did this last nite, i'd reiterate to make sure you're in the right tree inside regedit. when you open up regedit, make sure you're going down the software -> intervideo tree, cyberbri's description sounds right (i'm not looking at it right now), and the change allowed me to use intervideo.

hopefully you're just having a 'doh!' moment...

Can some please explain what effect going from a Resize of 1440 X 960 to 1920 X 1080 will have on the displayed aspect ratio. If the aspect ratio is directly proportional to the Resize what do you do to compensate for the change?

I think the aspect ratio will be fine, but the calculations, the amount of resize for each dimension, will differ.

1440x960 is doubling both vertical and horizontal (assuming it's 720x480).

Going to 1920x1080 (that's why I was doing for the longest time, since it's the next step up from 1280x720) means horizontal is increased 2.66x, and vertical is 2.125 times.

I don't know what difference this would have on quality/PQ - you'd have to look. But I decided to just go to 2.8x DVD resolution which doesn't use any more CPU really (still about 50%), and I get 2016x1344. I can't go above that, for some reason - ZP errors out at 2.85x or higher.

After a long wait, finally got around to trying FFDShow last night, and was left very disappointed.

I used ZP Pro with FFDShow and WinDVD6 Codecs.

I followed the HTPC news tutorial, and had DeNoise 3d of 0.5, 0,5, and 5... I tried lanczos and parameter=10, but it wouldn't display the movie... with parameter of 4 or so, I got resizing of 1440x960, 1920x1080 done, as well as a couple others. I did find that if I played with the sharpness or parameter settings in FFDShow, I got no picture. Also, if I changed video rendering from Overlay to VMR9 in ZP Pro, I also got no picture.

Basically, when it worked, I saw no difference between the so-called post processed dvd and my stand-alone DVD player. And as far as functionality, it was MUCH slower changing chapters and searching than my old DVD player.

I have a Panasonic PT50LC13 LCD RPTV hooked up to my PC via VGA. My PC has a P4 3.0c and ATI 9800Pro, with 1 gig RAM.

Any ideas on what I might be missing? Somebody who has had success with a hardware setup similar to mine, please share with me what settings you used?

I might try hooking up the PC through DVI tonight, but I think it's pretty stupid to use the TV's one DVI input for PC, when it has 2 VGA inputs. (I'm already using the DVI with my cable receiver).

Any useful advice or input is appreciated.

Sincerely,
A frustrated noob.

PS --- Could using SVGA or VGA cables instead of XGA cables be the problem OR ... Could it be... that FFDBlows!

Originally posted by FEL
Can some please explain what effect going from a Resize of 1440 X 960 to 1920 X 1080 will have on the displayed aspect ratio. If the aspect ratio is directly proportional to the Resize what do you do to compensate for the change? Be sure to check "No Aspect Ratio Correction" under Resize.

[Shameless post to reach "1000" :D]

" I tried lanczos and parameter=10, but it wouldn't display the movie"

Hehe... yeah, don't do that. You really don't want to go above 4, which is what FFDShow is optimized for. What resolution are you outputting to your TV? Yes, using DVI would be a likely improvment since its the digital signal as opposed to analog VGA. And frankly, it could be that your setup blows and not FFDShow ;). Really, do you think that's a good way to ask for help?

Hehe... I was just trying to be funny Madpoet. Adding some levity to the thread. Hope I didn't offend any FFDLovers out there.

Using powerstrip, my desktop resolutions that I tried were 1184x666p (very little underscan) and 1280x720p (some overscan).

The resize parameters I used were: 1440x960, 1920x780, 1776x1000, and 1280x720.

I also tried to 2160x1440 (DVD 3x), but couldn't get that to work.

Any suggestions on other settings to try? What settings should I be tweaking/calibrating?

Also, is there a loss in PQ by using Overlay instead of VMR9 video rendering in ZP Pro? A lot of terminology in these settings that I frankly don't understand.

I'm kind of at wit's end... if there are some good settings other than what I used (0.5, 0.5, 5.0 for DeNoise, 1.5 for sharpness, Parameter=4), I would be grateful. I don't even know what the different settings mean, so it's hard to know where to start tweaking.

After a long wait, finally got around to trying FFDShow last night, and was left very disappointed.

I used ZP Pro with FFDShow and WinDVD6 Codecs.

Get the 07/09 SSE2 Preview version of FFDSHOW. This will solve a lot of your problems


I followed the HTPC news tutorial, and had DeNoise 3d of 0.5, 0,5, and 5... I tried lanczos and parameter=10, but it wouldn't display the movie... with parameter of 4 or so, I got resizing of 1440x960, 1920x1080 done, as well as a couple others. I did find that if I played with the sharpness or parameter settings in FFDShow, I got no picture. Also, if I changed video rendering from Overlay to VMR9 in ZP Pro, I also got no picture.



Like I said, get the 07-09 SSE2 preview version. This is optimized for hyperthreading/P4's, and will work very well - much better than the one you have (I can tell, because it doesn't go up to 10 on Lanscoz). When you play with the settings while the picture/DVD is still going, if you don't have enough CPU, the picture will go away. With the 07-09 SSE2 preview version, it's much faster and you should be able to adjust stuff in real time while watching the DVD.


And with WinDVD codecs, you have to deal with Macrovision (copy protection). And unless you strip Macrovision with something like AnyDVD, you can't use VMR9.




Basically, when it worked, I saw no difference between the so-called post processed dvd and my stand-alone DVD player. And as far as functionality, it was MUCH slower changing chapters and searching than my old DVD player.


As with anything involved/complex that is computer-related , it takes some time and tweaking. Don't expect big results your first night....


I have a Panasonic PT50LC13 LCD RPTV hooked up to my PC via VGA. My PC has a P4 3.0c and ATI 9800Pro, with 1 gig RAM.

Any ideas on what I might be missing? Somebody who has had success with a hardware setup similar to mine, please share with me what settings you used?



Just upgrade to the SSE2 preview version here:
http://ffdshow.leffe.dnsalias.com/andy2222/
(I see there is the 08/01 preview version - this would work well, probably better)

For configurations, check this thread to see who has a similar screensize (you need different settings on a 10' screen than a 50" screen):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=447500

Here's my setup, which I am very, very pleased with:

Display: Sammy HLN4365W 43" DLP (watching from 8-9' away)
Connection type: VGA
Video card: nVidia GeForce 5200 Ultra, 128MB, overclocked to 390MHz and memory to 750MHz
CPU: P4 2.8GHz
Memory: 512MB

OS:Windows XP Media Center w/ SP2
Driver version: nVidia Media Center driver from Jan '04 (don't know number, tried a newer driver and couldn't play Far Cry)
Output resolution: 1280x720
Add. enh: (ie. AA, AF) - none used
Video Codec: WinDVD6
Video Renderer: Overlay
Ffdshow version: SSE2 preview (07-09? 08-01?)
DVD Software: Zoom Player Pro 4.3
Audio Out: SPDIF to receiver


Fdshow filters used (in order)
1. Sharpen - Unsharp Mask, strength 1 (to change colorspace to YV12 before Levels)
2. Levels - Output at 17-250
3. Resize Lanscoz 4 no sharpen, resize to 2.8x DVD resolution
4. Noise - new algorithm, uniform noise, strength 10
5. Output colorspace - YV12

CPU Usage - 50-55% (was 40-50% at 1920x1080, and 2.8x turns into about 2016x1388 or so, according to the OSD)



I might try hooking up the PC through DVI tonight, but I think it's pretty stupid to use the TV's one DVI input for PC, when it has 2 VGA inputs. (I'm already using the DVI with my cable receiver).

PS --- Could using SVGA or VGA cables instead of XGA cables be the problem OR ... Could it be... that FFDBlows!

DVI is a digital connection, so theoretically it will give you a better picture. Most people can't see the difference on HD cable between component and DVI, but most say there is a marked improvement when using an upconverting stand-alone DVD player over DVI compared to a regular DVD player over component.

The cable shouldn't matter, as long as your signal is getting across in full color/resolution.

Also, one thing that really, really improved my picture overall, on all inputs (especially DVD and non-HD cable) was properly calibrating my TV. You wouldn't believe the difference (or maybe you would) - it's not night and day, but it's like cloudy versus sunny, if you get my analogy.

The difference between an HTPC and a regular DVD player may not be night and day, but if you are willing to put in the time and like to tweak, you can squeeze a lot out of it. Ie., with newer DVDs from the past year or so, I don't use any sharpening, and they look great. Some older DVDs are softer, and I can turn on sharpening and get more detail, but not to the point of causing extra ringing/EE or noise. You may not see the improvement from memory/perception, but if you were able to do a side-by-side (like on the HTPCForum guide), you'll probably see a marked improvement.

Give it some time, play around with everything, and see what you get.
It took me a while to realize I needed to upgrade my codecs from WinDVD 4 to 6, plus longer to get in and really calibrate my set in the service menu to get the most from my picture.



Also, at the risk of turning you off of this even more, with WinDVD codecs, there is a "bug fix" you'll want to do to prevent some problems with fastforwarding, etc. Here is how to do it:
In Zoom Player, in the "Additional FIlters" section where ffdshow is, select "DMO_V Abstract," Then move it above ffdshow. This will have Zoom Player to call up that filter. But to turn the effect of that filter off, you have to change intensity.
So go to Start -> Run -> regedit
HKEY_CUrrent_User -> Software -> Intervideo -> DVD6 -> Pasteurization -> Intensity -> Right click, select Modify, and change value to 0
Before I did this, I had freezing video every 5-10 minutes (with WinDVD 4 codecs), I would lose video after a few seconds when ffing/rewinding, etc. But this fix clears everything up.

Originally posted by Rokkaku
Hehe... I was just trying to be funny Madpoet. Adding some levity to the thread. Hope I didn't offend any FFDLovers out there.

Using powerstrip, my desktop resolutions that I tried were 1184x666p (very little underscan) and 1280x720p (some overscan).

The resize parameters I used were: 1440x960, 1920x780, 1776x1000, and 1280x720.

I also tried to 2160x1440 (DVD 3x), but couldn't get that to work.

Any suggestions on other settings to try? What settings should I be tweaking/calibrating?

Also, is there a loss in PQ by using Overlay instead of VMR9 video rendering in ZP Pro? A lot of terminology in these settings that I frankly don't understand.

I'm kind of at wit's end... if there are some good settings other than what I used (0.5, 0.5, 5.0 for DeNoise, 1.5 for sharpness, Parameter=4), I would be grateful. I don't even know what the different settings mean, so it's hard to know where to start tweaking.


Read my last post first...


You can try 2.8x resize, which is what I use now. This gives you 2016x1344. Output this at 1280x720 desktop resolution. If the overscan really, really bothers you, don't change desktop or resize resolution. In the Resize panel, there is a black bar slider at the bottom. Slide this over a little until you can see black to the r/l of the image, then back to the left until the black disappears from the sides. It's very slight, but you'll get that extra little bit of image.

I'd also say try turning off denoise and sharpness at first, try some "reference" DVDs you watch and know well, and see how they look (sharpness, skin detail, black/shadow detail). Then go through and try tweaking here and there. Some people, including me, don't like denoise 3D because it makes skin textures float/crawl. But on other setups (big 10' projector screens), this may be necessary to help reduce noise. Also, with denoise 3D, you have to turn the two sliders (not time) up past .8 to get any effect (below that is treated as "0"), and the higher the time slider, the more image latency you'll get.

If you want to tweak, try turning on the luma sharpening in your Lanscoz resize. If you really have bad noise, you can try Gradual Denoise or Denoise 3D (although I was able to greatly improve PQ and high-level noise just by calibrating my TV properly (brightness/contrast) in the service menu).

You can use this website to help make sure your display is calibrated properly:
http://www.displaycalibration.com/
And you may have crushing in the blacks or whites with your setup. You will only be able to tell this by watching DVDs in your software. I use the THX calibration screens in Monsters Inc - but can tell my blacks are crushed because without fixing them, I have no shadow detail. To fix this, I change Levels (fitler) Output from 0 to 16. (some people need improved blacks and change Input from 0 to 16). Just play around and find what works best. It may take a while (I'm still doing minor tweaks now and then...), but the effort is worth it, IMO.

Originally posted by Nickeleye
I've barely been up and running with my HTPC for almost two weeks now and I've been noticing a strange issue with DVD menus. When I play a DVD it seems like DVD menus are fairly choppy for some reason, but when I play the movie there are no problems at all. Any ideas what this is all about?

I'm resizing the image in ffdshow to 1440 x 960, but I wouldn't think that would be the problem since the movies play fine.

I am using the sonic codecs along with zoom player. I've also got the following hardware specs:
Athlon XP 2400+ mobile CPU (overclocked to 2.4 ghz)
512 megs of PC3200 RAM
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (128 megs of memory) ffdshow causes the Sonic filters to run in software mode (no hardware acceleration). Unfortunately, software mode is only good at de-interlacing film based material (24 fps, like movies). Video based material (30 fps, like DVD menus and many TV shows) will not look smooth.

Cyberbri,

You wrote:

And with WinDVD codecs, you have to deal with Macrovision (copy protection). And unless you strip Macrovision with something like AnyDVD, you can't use VMR9.

Is this related to FFDShow? Because I use ZP with WinDVD6 and WMR9 (windowless mode, at that) and everything works well...

Odi

Originally posted by sigma957
ffdshow causes the Sonic filters to run in software mode (no hardware acceleration). Unfortunately, software mode is only good at de-interlacing film based material (24 fps, like movies). Video based material (30 fps, like DVD menus and many TV shows) will not look smooth.

Is there any way to get around the discrepancy the sonic codec has between 30 fps and 24 fps sources? I've noticed that when a movie plays (for the most part except for an anime movie I have) it plays with no problems, BUT when I load any DVD the menus normally run pretty choppy. It's a little annoying but tolerable.

Originally posted by Odi
Cyberbri,

You wrote:



Is this related to FFDShow? Because I use ZP with WinDVD6 and WMR9 (windowless mode, at that) and everything works well...

Odi

Not sure. That's what I had heard, and was convinced because I use WinDVD 6 codecs and can't use VMR9 or 7...

So you don't use ffdshow, just the WinDVD 6 codecs inside ZP?
Hmm. Maybe the way ffdshow is processing the video, somehow. Not sure...

Originally posted by cyberbri
Are you sure you're in:
HKEY_CUrrent_User -> Software ???
and not in Current Config or Local Machine or something?

If you have the DMO_V Abstract running, but the intensity isn't changed, you wouldn't be able to watch the movie at all.

Thank you VERY MUCH gentlemen for your patience. It was late and I was in fact under "Local machine" just as cyberbri indicated. The doh! moment has passed and all is running just fine. So far these are much smoother in playback than the sonics but the color balance is .....different. I'm sure a re-calibration will take care of it. I'm sick though now so back to the couch. Thanks again for not chasing me away.

Originally posted by Carey P
.....I will just have to wait until TT2.0, as I don't want to screw with ZP and a bunch of other stuff to change decoders at this point. Too close to my Star Wars party anyway.:p


Carey & All,

Guess the TheaterTek guys have been listening.................just go this from them.

"Version 2 contains all new decoders from nVidia which work on both ATI and nVidia cards (among many others). It is our belief that these offer a significant improvement in features and performance over the current Sonic decoders.

FFDShow has always been a “to your taste” add-on where some customers swear by it and others refuse to use it. It is still supported in 2.0 so you will be able to make a comparison to see if it still works in your environment.

2.0 should be out within a couple of weeks now. The upgrade price has not yet been determined but will obviously be much less than the full price.

Regards,
TheaterTek Support"

Guess it won't be long.can't wait to see the results.

How is TT different from ZP? I can't see spending $70 or whatever on TT plus more for the upgrade, when I can get ZP for free (plus $15 registration) -- especially when you can't even use ffdshow with it right now (or at least it looks better without using it, or so some people say). That seems like it would be paying that much for WinDVD6 or PowerDVD, if you can't even use ffdshow for an improvement...

TT 2.0 may be the only readily available source for the NVidia FWMM4 DVD filters. These filters are the current state of the art for DVD decoding. If you don't like the TT user interface, you will be able to use the FWMM4 filters under ZP.

Vern

Originally posted by cyberbri
Not sure. That's what I had heard, and was convinced because I use WinDVD 6 codecs and can't use VMR9 or 7...

So you don't use ffdshow, just the WinDVD 6 codecs inside ZP?
Hmm. Maybe the way ffdshow is processing the video, somehow. Not sure...

I can confirm that adding FFDShow in ZP with WinDVD6 filters and VMR9 displays only black screen. Without FFDShow (still VMR9) WinDVD6 filters and ZP work OK.

That definitely has something to do with FFDShow and copy protection, because it only occurs when playing copyrighted DVD disk from the DVD-ROM drive. If you rip the disk to the hard drive with DVD Decryptor and play it from there all is fine - ZP with WinDVD6 codecs, FFDShow and VMR9 work together no problem.

No such problem if overlay is used instead VMR9.

Anyone else having noticed this?

This is well documented on avs. You have to use a program such as anydvd and then its ok because the program will strip the macrovision.

Brian

Cyberbri,

You can use FFDShow with TT now. The issue was alot of us were balking at the Sonic decoders quality that TT currently uses. Supposviely, the new NVidia decoders are the best..........although you have to take the word of the Beta users. TT2.0 will let you use FFDShow too. To use you just select FFDShow and click an enable button in their config/video section. Hit properties and FFDshow comes up and you configure.simple. If you are happy with ZP and your codecs then stay with that...it is just alot of us TT users have been debating to switch or wait.

Regards.

Same here. I myself and me isa trying to outbid the other swindling bidders on Ebay for Pentium 4 CPU's. *grin*
Trying to upgrade my AMD1800 to a P4 for when TT2 comes out soon.
This way I can tell which would be better. TT2 in DVXA mode or with FFDshow in software mode. I REALLY hope TT2 is out within 2 weeks...

Hi everyone , I just loaded the 801 sse2 version. And it seems to work great, but I can't seem to make any real time adjustments while Im playing a dvd like I could on my last version of FFDshow . Is there something I am forgetting to check? Im using Zoomplyer Pro and the sonic codecs and overlay.

Regards

Originally posted by stylinlp
Same here. I myself and me isa trying to outbid the other swindling bidders on Ebay for Pentium 4 CPU's. *grin*
Trying to upgrade my AMD1800 to a P4 for when TT2 comes out soon.
This way I can tell which would be better. TT2 in DVXA mode or with FFDshow in software mode. I REALLY hope TT2 is out within 2 weeks...

That is the $100....or should I say upgrade $$...question. :)

People with P4's, are you using a Northwood or Prescott?

I just got a P4 2.4c Prescott used on Ebay. Woot :)
Gonna get a MSI 865PE Neo-V also. Hyperthreading with DUAL ram 800mhz

I'm not so sure that you need fast RAM to run FFDshow. My P4 2.8C (Northwood) is running with 1000MHZ FSB (3.5GHZ) and the RAM is running asynchronously at 333 MHz. Single 256Mb RAM module.

What does matter is a fast CPU. Overclocking a P4 Northwood will give the best results for a minimum outlay. If you overclock a P4, which is easy, then your RAM won't be able to run synchronously anyway.

I have a Dell so I can't OC. So would Prescott be the way to go?

ftp://au:au@files.drakan.ru/vid_work/50fr_720frq.rar

There is sin(x) with different freq.

So you can test your resize algorithm with it.

Only With 1440x576 Sinc resize you can see sharp 6.5Mhz Bars...

create a DWORD registry value under [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Sonic\CineMaster DS DVD\2.5\VideoDecoder] called "AllowAllRenderers" and set it to 1


Can someone explain to me how to do this???

I'm trying to get zoomplayer to work with sonic and ffdshow...


Thanks

Can someone explain to me how to do this???

That sentence tells you...but to be more detailed you click Start, click run, type regedit, press enter and navigate as that sentence tells you and do exactly what it says.

Brian

theboxman71

Take this pack - http://madsly.nm.ru/FFDShow PAL DVD PACK.rar

Run file cineplayer_palenable.reg for PAL or cineplayer_ntscenable.reg for NTSC video content.

USABRIAN...thanks alot for clearing that up...it worked like a charm...


Thanks

I'm starting to wonder where we lost Andy...

It would be great to have Andy back to the forum. It would be nice to have Spline and some higher Lanczos algorithms SSE2 optimized. Also it would not hurt to have aWarpSharp and aSharp optimized for running after resize (or to have them as resize sharpening options if that would also speed up processing).

Not to mention 64-bit optimization, or god forbid if we could somehow get Blight and Andy/Milan/Athos to work on dual CPU support for ZP+FFDShow combo.

Anyway, hope he is doing great at his new job and his rellocation went well.

USABRIAN thanks for the info

Hi,

Has anyone managed to get FFDShow scaling & processing working with Media Player Classic or is it just Zoom Pro or TheaterTek? If so with which external codecs?

Also would anyone here recommend the elecard codecs if you want to do do post-processing with these particular players?

Cheers

Jon Hart

Vpopovic,
100% agree with you for spline ss2 and dual processor
optimization for Hi-end HTPC with Zoomplayer+ffdshow!!
Concerning the 64 bit, we need to have a 64 bit Windows first.
Andy what do you think about??:cool:

Why spline? I thought Lanscoz was "better" anyway?

I resize to 2.8x DVD res and am only at 50% CPU, so I'd love to see some higher Lanscoz taps optimized. But other than that, I'm happy with my set up, and with lots of tweaking to my Service Menu, it's never looked better. ;)

New resize algorithm test:
ftp://au:au@files.drakan.ru/vid_work/50fr_720circ.rar - circus
ftp://au:au@files.drakan.ru/vid_work/50fr_720circ_q.rar - just quarter
3.5 MBytes.

Thanks very much for the test patterns Madsly.
They are very useful, and clearly show the differences in resize algorithms and settings.
It’s easy to see which resize setting work and which settings don’t.

They are also useful for showing the differences in sharpening systems.
Resize sharpen and Dscaler sharpen perform well with very little artifacts as expected. But man, all the sharpen systems under the “Sharpen” menu in FFDShow show dreadful artifacting and aliasing.
I always disliked them and pioneered the use of resize sharpening as a replacement, but your test patterns really shows beyond doubt how bad they really are.

If you created the test patterns yourself, congratulations on you fine work.
Well done.

Maybe you could post a 720x480 pattern for the NTSC users.


Regards,

Owen

___________________________
The FFDShow resize-sharpen dude.

Originally posted by vpopovic
It would be great to have Andy back to the forum. It would be nice to have Spline and some higher Lanczos algorithms SSE2 optimized. Also it would not hurt to have aWarpSharp and aSharp optimized for running after resize (or to have them as resize sharpening options if that would also speed up processing).

Not to mention 64-bit optimization, or god forbid if we could somehow get Blight and Andy/Milan/Athos to work on dual CPU support for ZP+FFDShow combo.

Anyway, hope he is doing great at his new job and his rellocation went well.

Im back in terms of having succesfully relocated and working dsl again since 2 days. The new job is kinda time consuming atm, trying to start with xbox development since the game will be released also for xbox... the good news are im mainly there for code optimisations so the know how i get there for the game should also work for ffdshow. The problem is atm i come home at about 10pm and weekends are for finish the work on my appartment.

The higher tap rsize algos are the first thing i wanna finish if i have some free time. (Spline and lanczos5/6)

PS: btw we also have a video projector at work and its kinda fun to play burnout3 on xbox on it, we also watched "THX directors cut" last night.... kinda strange film story was oki but not actual something i wanna watch after a long work day. So at least i might be able to test ffdshow in real world test too.

Welcome back Andy,
Glad to see you are getting settled in your now job and apartment.
We would all like to see further optimizations for FFDShow, but your life must come first.
Just do what you can when you can. We are all grateful for your efforts.

Regards,

Owen

Good to hear from you Andy and glad that new job is going well. Just take your time with development, there is no rush. What we have is already great. I accidentaly installed non-SSE2 version recently and boy, was that slow.

Owen, code is about 2KByte on c++, so imho in nearest future it will be small bars render.

its all about this:
http://math.ut.ee/~toomas_l/harmonic_analysis/Fourier/node33.html

so on not discrete devices (DVD player + TV SET) you must see 6.5 bars with out a problem. (Upscaling up to 2/4 times on DAC)

On monitor+videocard you can't see it without resize. It's the major problem.

Originally posted by Owen
They are also useful for showing the differences in sharpening systems.
Resize sharpen and Dscaler sharpen perform well with very little artifacts as expected. But man, all the sharpen systems under the “Sharpen” menu in FFDShow show dreadful artifacting and aliasing.
I always disliked them and pioneered the use of resize sharpening as a replacement, but your test patterns really shows beyond doubt how bad they really are.


As you love to say, it ultimately depends on the setup. After some time spent trying to find the best settings for 6800 GT and Nvidia 4.0 decoder combo on my 61" Samsung HLN617W RP DLP, I am currently using aWarpSharp (no chroma sharpning, no blur, depth 64, threshold 0.99) and aSharp (unsharp masking threshold between -0.1 to -0.3, adaptive sharpening strenght 16, block adaptive sharpening 4), both after Lanczos5 resize to 1296x864. With lots of driver level tweaks for 61.12 driver and AAx16 (which samples image up to 518x3456=18 megapixels, with hardware gamma correction), AFx16 (equivalent of 64-tap scaling unconfirmed, or at least 32-tap scaling confirmed), this seems to produce the best image quality for the movies.

Strangely enough, perceivable level of detail with these settings in my setup is actualy greater by a nice margin compared to 1920x1920 Lanczos4 resize with resize sharpen, both using same driver and driver tweaks. While 1920x1920 produces new level of detail beyond what 1296x864 is capable of, 61" 1280x720 screen is not enough (both by size and resolution) to actualy show extremely fine detail of such high resize. So, heavily filtered 1296x864 appears more detailed, without the look of "cheap" sharpening. Colors are also more alive then before as level of chroma detail is actualy fully displayable (resolution) and noticeable (screen size).

I have tested similar settings with my old Quadro FX 1100 (FX 5700 based GPU), and this advantage was not there. On the contrary, 1920x1440 was a clear winner over lover resize. New card, new game. I believe most of the difference is attributable to 64-bit texture filtering and two-fold increase in AA and AF capabilities of 6800 series of cards. 6800 is just able to resolve more detail (64-bit texture filtering and overall GPU design?), and then better hide imperfections in low 1296x864 resize resolution (with x16 AA upsampling card still ends up with image size north of 16 megapixels, same as before with x8 on 1920x1920 resize, and AF offers twice the taps than before for smoother scalling).

DVE test patterns are kind of a mixed bag. On grayscale ramp results are extraordinary. You can clearly see each separate 1% step in the ramp, something that you can't quite get to in my setup with 1920x1920. Also, color rendering is a bit more clear around the edges of color fields with lower resize. On the negative side, resolution patterns show a bit more moire with lower resize, and edge enhancement and noise is definitely more visible than with higher resize.

As "upgrade" path for my current FFDshow settings I can see using higher tap Lanczos (or perhaps Spline), and potentially even Sinc. Also, there might be room for denoise for lower quality DVD transfers. But even as is, it looks great.

Could someone please direct me to the preferred version of ffdshow - when I run a google search there appear to be many many different versions............

LawrenceGould,

Try latest.

http://ffdshow.leffe.dnsalias.com/andy2222/

Andy,

Welcome back.

Charlie

Sorry if you read this post already, I was told that it would be more appropriate here than in the general posting area....:



Actually, this is not really a zoomplayer question, more of an ffdshow one, I guess.

I'm running an HDTV as a secondary monitor at 1920x1080 off of a Radeon 9800pro. I'm using zoomplayer, windvd codec, and ffdshow.

I'm trying to use RESIZE in ffdshow but whenever I engage resize the picture just zooms incredibly (picture gets bigger - so that a bunch of it is cut off).

I'm trying to resize to 1776x1000. Is the problem that I should try to resize to a higher resolution? I'm not sure if my 2.8 ghz cpu can handle much more. From what I've read I thought that no matter what I resize to my video card would downscale it to the hardware resolution (which in this case is 1920x1080). I thought that the theory was that some of the picture alterning operations would work better on a larger picture, and that then downscaling the picture would result in better picture quality than if the operations were run on the 1920x1080 resolution. Mine doesn't seem to be downscaling.... and I'm not sure why.

I'm pretty sure I'm just missing something here..... anyone have any tips for me to try?


While I'm at it - is the only way to use WinDVD6 codecs, Zoomplayer & Ffdshow (playing DVDs) to use a macrovision removed like AnyDVD...?

Again, did you make sure to check No Aspect Ratio Correction in FFDShow?

When you change the resize value while the DVD is playing, it will zoom in or out (try turning off resize and see it shrink).

What you have to do is change the resize value, close FFDSHOW, then stop the DVD and restart it again. The change should take effect.



I'm trying to resize to 1776x1000. Is the problem that I should try to resize to a higher resolution?

If your desktop is at 1920x1080, and you're outputting that, is there a reason for using this resize value? You can try multiples of the DVD resolution (like 2x, 2.8x will get you to 2016x1344, and that's the highest I can go on my 2.8GHz and similar setup/codecs without getting an error message), or just plug in 1920x1080.


And I think you should be fine without AnyDVD. IIRC, if you are using Overlay, that setup you have is okay. If you want to use WinDVD 6 and VMR, you may need to get rid of the macrovision. I could be wrong, though. But if the DVD plays fine, then you're fine.

cyberbri,

I use spline because it has less sharpening artifacts than Lanczos at low to moderate sharpening levels. Lanczos creates a video waveform with at least 40mv of edge enhancement at all settings on my system. At present I am using simple resize which has good fidelity but not as sharp as I like.

Charlie

I have a little problem with my ffdshow. I went through and set it based on the beginners guide on htpcnews. FFDshow is processing all of my media now, which is great, but when I set the resize to 1140x960, I get some issues. on xvid playback, I get a great picture, but the audio is delayed. on dvd's, the audio and video is synced, but the video is a little jumpy. nothing big, but just a little jumpy. Also, my cpu is pegged at nearly 100% if I go to 1140x960. I drop down to 1280x720 it is all good. All the resizing is Lanczos

my setup: p4 2.8A, 512mb pc2100ddr, nvidia mx400, displayed on an infocus x1. My version of ffdshow is a little old (June 7, 2004). I was looking for the p4 optimized version to see if that helps some.

Any ideas? Is there a hardware shortcoming I need to address? ffdshow version?

Get the optimized version. You might have to look into reclock as well if you're getting stutters.

It might be that MX400. They're crippled to the point that they're roughly equivalent to the Geforce2 GTS, IMO. I don't know if that's causing the problem, but you might want to borrow an ATI 9xxx/Xx00 or Nvidia 5xxx/6xxx card (so many x's!) and see if that clears things up. The latest SSE2 ffdshow is the 08012004 release, see the link in Madsly's post above for where to get it.

That's true, I missed the MX400. It's not going to help.

thanks guys, I downloaded the optimized version and was already thinking of a new card. probably one of the 9600np with the 128bit ram. trying to keep it fanless, and this appears to be the best cardd with passive cooling.

this is the card I have in mind - 9600 link (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-164-022&depa=1)

I just installed the optimized version of FFDshow that was linked to above and now zoomplayer crashes when I try to open a file. I tried re registering the filters with no error. I also reinstalled zoomplayer real fast. still crashes. is there a patch or something I need to do?

You may need to totally uninstall ffdshow before installing that new one over it. Try that.

Overlay on the MX400 should be fast enough although quality is not good.

Did you uninstall the old version of FFDShow first?
All settings will be lost and need to be reset, including “All supported” under “Raw” in “Codecs” page.

If you are only going to use overlay, a 9600 will be OK, but if you want to use VMR7 or VMR9 get a 9600 Pro or TX.
Noise is not a problem if you discard the small, noisy fan used on the video card heat sink and mount a normal case fan to blow down over the video card.
The fan can also run on 7 volts in stead of 12 volts for silent operation.
I use 2 bent back plane blanking plates to mount the fan and it works better then an expensive silent cooler and costs almost nothing.

Owen,
If you are only going to use overlay, a 9600 will be OK, but if you want to use VMR7 or VMR9 get a 9600 Pro or TX.
What is the problem with VMR on 9600 non pro?

Madsly

The 9600 non-Pro will not have enough processing power for smooth playback in VMR9 mode. It may just have enough power to run VMR9 without any resize but this looks very soft and negates one of the major benfits of running FFDshow.

Even a 9600XT struggles when running at a resize high enough resize to appear as sharp as overlay. The result is tearing in the image and if relly pushed - dropped frames. I've chosen to run overlay until the X800 cards are affordable. VMR9 looks very nice but needs a lot of Graphics Card horsepower to be worthwhile IMO.

Aaron

There is your answer Madsly.

I am using a 9600Pro overclocked to XT speed and it is pushed to the max, although it does not appear that 9800Pro cards work any better.

CPU and memory performance are also important for FFDShow.

I'm trying to use zoomplayer, ffdshow (most recent release) and WinDVD codecs..... using VMR9 - won't work - I get sound buy no video. PowerDVD codecs work.

I think I read somewhere that there is an incompatibilty between these - overlay works ok, but I don't want overlay.

I've tried running DVDIdle in the background - doesn't help.

Is there a registry fix for this - I've looked for one, but can't find one - though I did read a post where someone suggested that there was a fix....

thanks much,

Lawrence

Originally posted by Owen
If you are only going to use overlay, a 9600 will be OK, but if you want to use VMR7 or VMR9 get a 9600 Pro or TX.

Actually, VMR7 should not be a problem, I am running that with no issues using a 9600 non-pro. VMR9 has too much tearing to be acceptable, but VMR7 is fine.

Originally posted by LawrenceGould
I'm trying to use zoomplayer, ffdshow (most recent release) and WinDVD codecs..... using VMR9 - won't work - I get sound buy no video. PowerDVD codecs work.

I think I read somewhere that there is an incompatibilty between these - overlay works ok, but I don't want overlay.

I've tried running DVDIdle in the background - doesn't help.

Is there a registry fix for this - I've looked for one, but can't find one - though I did read a post where someone suggested that there was a fix....

thanks much,

Lawrence


I think this may have to do with Macrovision. Try the trial version of AnyDVD for starters.

Lawrence,

It is a well known Macrovision protection problem.
AnyDVD does fix it for me.

Regards,

Owen

I'm a little, OK a lot, confused about the VMR9 vs overlay discussions. Reading through as much of this thread as I can stomach for the time being it's unclear to me if I'm using VMR, overlay or neither?

Madpoet, my setup is very similar to yours from what I've read so you may be able to answer my question. First my setup:

6800GT running on a P4 3.0c OC'd to 3.2 with 1Gb of dual channel RAM on an Asus P4C800E-deluxe board. I'm using TT with ffdshow. Resize @ 2016x1344 w/ Lanczos4 and unsharpen mask set at 22.

On the video tab in TT I have "Use DVXA" checked... though from what I've read in this thread the use of unsharpen mask overrides that setting and uses software mode.

My DVD playback looks great but I don't know if I'm using overlay or VMR or if I can even choose from the two using the 6800GT.

Please advise!

Thanks

Originally posted by mnn1265
I'm a little, OK a lot, confused about the VMR9 vs overlay discussions. Reading through as much of this thread as I can stomach for the time being it's unclear to me if I'm using VMR, overlay or neither?

Madpoet, my setup is very similar to yours from what I've read so you may be able to answer my question. First my setup:

6800GT running on a P4 3.0c OC'd to 3.2 with 1Gb of dual channel RAM on an Asus P4C800E-deluxe board. I'm using TT with ffdshow. Resize @ 2016x1344 w/ Lanczos4 and unsharpen mask set at 22.

On the video tab in TT I have "Use DVXA" checked... though from what I've read in this thread the use of unsharpen mask overrides that setting and uses software mode.

My DVD playback looks great but I don't know if I'm using overlay or VMR or if I can even choose from the two using the 6800GT.

Please advise!

Thanks


TT1.5 is overlay. TT2.0 will offer both, overlay and VMR.

Checking/unckecking DVXA is overwritten/disabled if you use ffdshow.
_____
Axel

TT1.5 is overlay. TT2.0 will offer both, overlay and VMR.

Checking/unckecking DVXA is overwritten/disabled if you use ffdshow.
Thanks for that Axel... clears-up much confusion.

I'm really looking forward to TT2 now that I know that... my picture is so nice now I'll be thrilled with even a slight improvement. If VMR9, NVidia 4.0 codecs and new improvements in the TT2 software make much of a combined improvement I think my DVD playback will begin to rival the HD picture I get from Voom! I can't wait....

Yep... VMR9 is subtle. Some people like it, some people don't. But if you're using TT1.5 you're definately in Overlay! As for rivaling Voom, let's not get crazy here ;). In the end it's still a 480 DVD. You can only make so much out of that. It looks outstanding, but I'm never going to be confused between it and real HD.

As for rivaling Voom, let's not get crazy here . In the end it's still a 480 DVD. You can only make so much out of that. It looks outstanding, but I'm never going to be confused between it and real HD. Ok, so it won't rival Voom... but it sure looks sweet! :D

One thing I've noticed is that even slight or subtle differences really show on my 106" screen vs an LCD monitor. So, just about any improvement is well worth the effort to gain it.

Hello

I'm a newbie with ffdshow. I have spent time reading through the 150 pages here and still am a bit confused on how to optimize ffdshow.

I have:

Home built HTPC
- 2.8 gig p4
- 500mb ram
- ATI AIW 9800 (secondary tuner) and video card
- Hauppauge pvr250 (primary tuner)
- DVI out to a samsung 50 inch dlp
- powerstrip custom resolution (1248X702) to eliminate overscan on dlp
- Meedio htpc software
- using meedio player with sonic dvd decoders
- Snapstream beyondtv dvr in MPEG2 format

Let's start with dvd and ripped dvd's. I was using the meedio internal player with the basic sonic decoder (no ffdshow). Picture fills entire dlp screen (i.e. 16x9) and was pretty good, to my untrained eye.

I then set up ffdshow using the basic guide in the htpcnews article (I assume thread readers know what I am talking about). Watching dvd/ripped dvd with those basic settings resulted in a great picture but the input/output per the osd were both 720x408 and the picture was basically a letterbox inside a pan and scan (only about 2/3 of dlp screen utilized).

So I went into the ffdshow settings and set it to resize the picture to 1248x702. The output in these settings was inferior to my original setup and I had jitter due to cpu utilization, although now the entire screen was utilized.

Is there a resource someone can point me to to understand the scaling issues as well as to develop an understanding of the many configuration options of ffdshow.

Finally, does anyone have a setup similar to mine and recommend any settings?

So, when I play a DVD that has a natural resolution of 480p, and then I play it full screen on my HDTV that is at 1080i... then is the DVD upscaled to 1080i....right? Is this the same thing that the zenith upscaling DVD player does?

I'm wondering if I'm getting an appreciable picture quality difference on the HDTV at 1080i than I would at 720p.... I'm not sure I can tell the difference. Would an interlaced resolution generally be better or worse than a progressive resolution for DVD playback...?

Also, since I use ffshow to upscale to 2.5x DVD resolution, does it matter whether I am downscaling to 1080i or 720p...., and if so, why?

I'm all questions today (no answers, though).

LawrenceGould,
Take this file ftp://au:au@files.drakan.ru/vid_work/50fr_720frq.rar and do any scaling operation. (its 576i, but you can make it 480i with out a problem)

Take snapshots at every step and then compare it with each other.

IMO better is progressive resolution for DVD playback.

So, when I play a DVD that has a natural resolution of 480p, and then I play it full screen on my HDTV that is at 1080i... then is the DVD upscaled to 1080i....right? Is this the same thing that the zenith upscaling DVD player does?


Technically it's the same thing. One way or the other, the image is converted to 1080i to be displayed on the set. One of those may be better at scaling than the other.

But the thing with upscaling DVD players, as long as they use a digital connection (DVI/HDMI), is that there is no conversion in signal type. With a regular DVD player, the singal goes from digital (DVD) to analog, sent over analog cables to the TV, then it's converted back to digital format. But when using a DVI/HDMI cable, there is no D-A-D conversion.

You should notice better results with an HTPC or upscaling DVD player.


I'm wondering if I'm getting an appreciable picture quality difference on the HDTV at 1080i than I would at 720p.... I'm not sure I can tell the difference. Would an interlaced resolution generally be better or worse than a progressive resolution for DVD playback...?


There's not too much of a (noticable) difference. Other factors also play into the equation, mostly the technology of the set, the black levels, contrast ratio, colors, calibration, etc.


Also, since I use ffshow to upscale to 2.5x DVD resolution, does it matter whether I am downscaling to 1080i or 720p...., and if so, why?


Your desktop resolution should be at the native resolution of the display. If you have a 1080i set, it should be 1920x1080. A 720p set should be fed 1280x720. This will insure the set doesn't have to convert the picture again before it's displayed. What you resize to is independent of this, as it is just output at the desktop resolution.

Originally posted by cyberbri

But the thing with upscaling DVD players, as long as they use a digital connection (DVI/HDMI), is that there is no conversion in signal type. With a regular DVD player, the singal goes from digital (DVD) to analog, sent over analog cables to the TV, then it's converted back to digital format. But when using a DVI/HDMI cable, there is no D-A-D conversion.




This is only true for digital displays.

CRT RPTV's are analogue, so using a DVI connection is of little value.

Most CRT HD displays do not natively display 720p.
They usually convert 720p input to 540p, or more often 1080i for display, so you are better of using 1080i input to avoid scaling by the display.

On a large display, 540p will show visible scan lines so 1080i is the better option for video use, although the windows desktop will show some flicker.
If a flicker free windows desktop is more important then video quality, you can use 540p.

Using 1920x1080 desktop resolution on a these displays normally results in excessive overscan, so most people use 1776x1000 or less at 1080i timing to remove overscan.

I recommend you set FFDShow resize (Lanczos 4) to your desktop resolution if you use 1920x1080 or 1776x1000.

Regards,

Owen

I have a 42" Sony GWIII LCD rear-projction TV which native rez is 788p.

My desktop rez on my HTPC is set to 1280x720p, however I could set it to 1384x768 which would be about the closest to the 788p that I could get, but either way the TV still has to convert the signal on my TV.

I see little difference between 1280x720 vs. 1384x768, plus BeyondTV (my PVR app) won't do True Fullscreen to the custom rez of 1384x768, so I'm forced to keep it at 1280x720.

However, this is a little off topic for this thread.

When's the newly optimized FFDShow coming out? It's been a couple months now.

Andy's buried right now Joe. So don't expect it soon. Good luck Andy!

sorry for asking this..been outta the ffdshow loop for awhile...
whats the best version of ffdshow to use with an amd xp mobile 2500 cpu? and ati 9600xt


I used the htpcnews site guide for ffdshow setup...

I installed the newest version of ffdshow..... I used the htpcnews site guide for ffdshow setup...and when running it with zoomplayer ...watching ripped or dvd's in drive @ 1440/960 res I experience freezing of video after a few minutes..audio still plays.... I fiddled about with lower settings...still the problem persists...

any ffdshow lifesavers out there?...

thnx Rick

What codecs are you using?

The freezing video may be a WinDVD problem, and there's a relatively easy fix, if that's it.

codecs...is this what you mean?

in zoomplayer

video decoder is intervideo windvd

audio decoder is intervideo windvd

audio renderer is default direct sound....

in ffdshow under codecs i changed the *raw video * to "all supported"

Is the quick fix for WinDVD6 that you are referring to the registry 'allowallrenderers' entry? I tried that but still get problems when trying to use WinDVD6 with ffdshow..

any ideas on what might be wrong.. (Radeon 9800, 2.8ghz....)

This is the fix:

In Zoom Player -> DVD Settings -> Additional Filters:
Select DMO_V Abstract, move it to above ffdshow so it is started before ffdshow
Save and close

Press START -> RUN -> type "regedit"
Go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER -> Software -> Intervideo -> DVD6 -> Pasteurization -> in right window, right-click "Intensity," select "modify" and change value to "0"

Close regedit, open ZP, and go for it.

Originally posted by RickRenn
sorry for asking this..been outta the ffdshow loop for awhile...
whats the best version of ffdshow to use with an amd xp mobile 2500 cpu? and ati 9600xt


I used the htpcnews site guide for ffdshow setup...

I installed the newest version of ffdshow..... I used the htpcnews site guide for ffdshow setup...and when running it with zoomplayer ...watching ripped or dvd's in drive @ 1440/960 res I experience freezing of video after a few minutes..audio still plays.... I fiddled about with lower settings...still the problem persists...

any ffdshow lifesavers out there?...

thnx Rick


Sorry, but if I where you I would be sorry to ask that question as well.
It is asked and answered about every second day.

The answer is:
Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO Abstract DMO


PLEASE use the search and read the last few pages of this thread.

sorry buddy..I bow to your intelligence...

I'm new to this stuff and not exactly a pc guru...in other words I guess you're saying I should stfu ...I did search the thread ...and I also have it bookmarked for quick search...

I guess AVS is the wrong place to ask questions...thanks

btw...i did the abstract dmo prior to posting this and it screwed my picture up.. so I thought I'd try to get some help here ... obviously a bad move
FI


Rick

The Abstract will mess your picture up, and that's why you have to set the Registry value to 0. But that will fix the freezing video.

thnxs cyberbri appreciate the help

Rick

The DMO filter does not work if you use YV12. Is it anything to do with that? Are you definitely using YUY2?
FFdshow is a complicated thing to get working with windvd. Have you no other codecs you could try?

Andy

I don't think DMO has anything to do with YV12.
You don't want the Abstract to work. That's why you turn it on, but turn the value to 0 in the registry.


If you are using WinDVD codecs with Overaly rendering, you need a filter before Resize to change to YV12 (from original YUY2), otherwise the screen goes green.


Check this thread to see what kind of settings people are using:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=447500

Originally posted by Ilkand
The DMO filter does not work if you use YV12. Is it anything to do with that? Are you definitely using YUY2?


Andy


ok..i was using yv12 in ffdshow.... I'll try the yuy2

Thnx Andy

havent tried any other codecs..its all very new to me... I'm mostly into gaming... I'm setting up a HT for my wife and kids... needless to say I'm in the middle of a major brain flush with all this... I need a major wipe..lol

thnx again

Quote Ilkand
“The DMO filter does not work if you use YV12.”

Yes it does.

Quoter cyberbri
“If you are using WinDVD codecs with Overaly rendering, you need a filter before Resize to change to YV12 (from original YUY2), otherwise the screen goes green.”

The green screen problem applies to any other decoder as well as VMR7 and VMR9 output as this is not a decoder or output renderer problem.

FFDShow filters run in YV12 for speed, so each individual filter needs a YUV2-YV12 conversion routine.
In Andys “preview SSE2” build, this conversion routine is missing or broken in the resize filter in some, but not all modes. Lanczos 4 is broken but I think Lanczos 3 and Bicubic are ok.
Most other Andy builds, and builds not compiled by Andy do not have this bug to my knowledge.

The work around is to use another filter before resize to do the YUV2-YV12 conversion.
A good choice is the “Picture Properties” filter.
Simply checking the filter enable box is not enough. You need to adjust the filter away from default settings or it is disabled. I use Luminance Gain set to 129.
Most other filters will also work, so if you are using any filter before resize, you should not need this trick.

Since FFDShow is working in YV12 internally, we should force FFDShows output to YV12 ONLY to prevent another color space conversion in software.
The video card hardware does a better job of color space conversion.


To prevent the Abstract DMO filter from screwing you picture, it needs to be set to zero.

You can do this in two ways.

1. By editing the registry.

2. By playing a DVD in the WinDVD player and enabling the Absract filter and then setting it to zero. This will alter the registry as required.


PAL users of the WinDVD decoder need to add the Dword “DXVAPAL=1” to the registry.

If you want to use VMR9 with the WinDVD decoder you will need a program like AnyDVD to remove Macrovision protection or you will get a black screen.

The Elecard decoder also needs AnyDVD as it does not do decryption internally.


Regards,

Owen

I have Windvd6, and set input as YV12 and output as YV12 in FFdshow. This gives a nicer picture (for me), but the DMO_ABSTRACT trick does not work. It does with YUY2. That is what I meant. Thought this might have some bearing on the screwed up picture thing, thats all.

Andy

Originally posted by Ilkand
I have Windvd6, and set input as YV12 and output as YV12 in FFdshow. This gives a nicer picture (for me), but the DMO_ABSTRACT trick does not work. It does with YUY2. That is what I meant. Thought this might have some bearing on the screwed up picture thing, thats all.

Andy

Andy,
What you said is true, but it is not normal to restrict FFDShows input to YV12 only.
It is normally set to "All Supported"

The DMO filter dose not support YV12 output.

Regards,

Owen

OK - This is actually a Zoomplayer question, but I figure many of you use it... I'm not getting as much out of the the zoom - codec - ffdshow combination right as I believe I could.

I'm using a Radeon 9800, with a 2.8ghz P4... lots of ram. Connected to HDTV using ATI dvi-component adapter... at 720p

Here's why I think not - with Sonic Cineplayer in hardware mode I get a quite decent picture quality....

However, when I use zoom player (even using the sonic codecs) my picture quality is nowhere near as good. As far as I can tell, one problem is that I can't configure the codecs to use hardware accelleration in zoom (when I click on the 'c' to configure the codes it doesn't give me the option to choose hardware accelleration.

Now, I know that ffdshow is 'software accelleration'.. and I can run ffdshow at up to 2.8X DVD without CPU problems... and have tried a number of the settings that have been posted.....and while I get some picture quality improvement it is still nowhere near the sonic cineplayer quality.

I know that there must be something wrong here, but I can't figure out what it is...

any ideas??

The "problem" is that many report Sonic's abilities to be lacking in the sofware department compared with its hardware playback. Try another player such as windvd6 for use with ffdshow.

(Also, I have found that I need to resize at least beyond 1440X960 to notice a big improvement)

Brian

What's wrong with the Sonic decoder in software mode?

It's not good.