Originally posted by sprchas
"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

I tried searching and got that answer, so here is my question. I am using ffdshow, the most recent build, with blur & NR and then resize to 1280 x 720. It plays smoothly, but i am getting 100% CPU.. Does that matter?

I have an AMD 3500, ATI x800 agp, and 2 GB corsair ram.


thanks

chas

It doesn't matter if you have smooth playback. But is there a reason you're using the most recent build? With ffdshow, unless you need the newer versions for some reason, the fastest one is the August 1st build by Andy. Search for a link for it on this thread. We post that it's the fastest one at least 2-3 times per page of the thread, it seems like...

Originally posted by cyberbri
It doesn't matter if you have smooth playback. But is there a reason you're using the most recent build? With ffdshow, unless you need the newer versions for some reason, the fastest one is the August 1st build by Andy. Search for a link for it on this thread. We post that it's the fastest one at least 2-3 times per page of the thread, it seems like...

thanks

i will get it.


chas

Originally posted by cyberbri
When you press the resize button, are you saving the ffdshow settings and restarting playback? You have to stop and restart playback to get the resize size to fit within the desktop.

Ie., if you have a 1280x720 desktop and you play a DVD without resize on, it will fill the screen (no ffdshow resize). While it's playing, if you change the resize to 1280x720, the picture will zoom in and you won't see the whole thing. Then you need to save the ffdshow settings, stop playback and press play again.

Conversely, if you lower the resize, say from 2x DVD rez to 1280x720, the picture will get smaller on the screen and you may see a green line on the screen until you stop and restart playback.

I am stopping and restarting playback when I change ffdshow settings. I actually stop and restart ZP also. AFAIK you have to stop what you are playing in ffdshow to resize anyway.

I do have a 1280x720 desktop and when I play a DVD without resize on it fills the screen. I also discovered that I can play a DVD WITH resize and get a full screen IF it is simply the 2x rez button. Unfortunately, when it is 2x rez the picture is not smooth at all, otherwise I would keep it there.

It appears that it only has this problem of compressing the sides and the green line on the right side when I try to resize to 1280x720.
Any idea why?

Stupid question but you do have the AR correction set to "no aspect ratio correction" on the main resize settings page, right?

Originally posted by pcgeek
Stupid question but you do have the AR correction set to "no aspect ratio correction" on the main resize settings page, right?

I guess the old adage about 'There Are No Stupid Questions' applies here.

I ticked that box and problem solved. For some reason I had "Keep Original Aspect Ratio" button checked instead of no aspect ratio correction.

Thanks

Originally posted by DV8


I ticked that box and problem solved. For some reason I had "Keep Original Aspect Ratio" button checked instead of no aspect ratio correction.

Thanks

Keep Original is default. That keeps the 1.5:1 AR of movies (720x480 resolution) rather than allowing it to be stretched to 16.9. :)

Chas, if you're using the ffdshow OSD it's no wonder you're getting 100 % CPU. That stuff eats cycles for breakfast! Also the only thing that matters is smooth playback. If you're still able to pause the movie because the automation isn't totally subdued, that's a bonus!

I have a newbie / stupid question:

Am I wrong in thinking FFDshow is used mainly by people who use projectors?

Would it be worthwhile for someone like me who has a decent computer but only a 40 inch 16:9 TV ? (Toshiba TW40X81).

Does it make any sense to use ffdshow with a tv like mine?

Thanks very much,

François

Yep - it will still help you get a little extra sharpness and PQ on a 40" - have some fun with it!!

FFDShow's best use by far, IMO is resizing.

Sharpness is an artificial processor, and I don't like the image it produces. I can see why you might like it though

I have a 43" HD DLP, and ffdshow works wonders on my TV.

Originally posted by mattpwill
Sharpness is an artificial processor, and I don't like the image it produces. I can see why you might like it though

I only use a slight msharpen - I can squeeze a little EE without any ringing -I only use strength 5 and threshold 15. I can't stand ringing.

And I think resize artificially sharpens on its own depending on mode, right? Or is this just a product of resize itself?

I appreciate the response.

Originally posted by therealgeno

And I think resize artificially sharpens on its own depending on mode, right? Or is this just a product of resize itself?



Yes, the way the different resize algorithms and their parameters work, some will produce sharper pictures, sometimes at the expense of slight ringing, artifacts, etc. The sharper picture as a biproduct of the resizing, which is what people do it for. Getting a good balance of sharpness with the least amount of degradation is the goal, at least for some people. Others just want a sharp er picture and don't worry as much about slight ringing they may be introducing to the picture, since they don't notice it from their viewing distance, etc.

And msharpen's a nice filter for sharpening edges up without increasing noise anywhere, since it only works on edges (depending on threshold).

Hello Im trying to get FFDshow working with zoomplayer But I keep getting an error saying Wmplayer.exe has crashed when playing a dvd movie. I tried reinstalling windvd 6 and zoomplayer with no luck. Anyone have any ideas what it could be? Also How would I make ffdshow work with a divx file?

Elements,

What are you using for your video renderer in ZP? Overlay? VMR9 Windowless? Windowed?

Originally posted by Elements604
Hello Im trying to get FFDshow working with zoomplayer But I keep getting an error saying Wmplayer.exe has crashed when playing a dvd movie. I tried reinstalling windvd 6 and zoomplayer with no luck. Anyone have any ideas what it could be? Also How would I make ffdshow work with a divx file?

Make sure you have the Microsoft navigator selected.

RG

Am I correct in that if you are using DXVA (Hardware Acceleration) you will not be able to use ffdshow?

I'm currently using Zoomplayer Pro 4.03 with NVIDIA DVD decoders version 1.00.67.

Within the DVD configuration I can select either NVDVD 3+ or NVDVD 3+ DXVA as my video renderer. I'm assuming the DXVA version is the hardware accelerated version as well as the one having the PureVideo features enabled, but I notice both have "Hardware Acceleration" checkboxes in the Video properties tab.

A little confusing. Is the Hardware Acceleration checkbox ignored when using non-DXVA version?

Is PureVideo still "enabled" when using the non-DXVA version?

Where does the NVIDIA Video Post Processor come into play and can it work with ffdshow?

Thanks in advance.

Which version is best?

Wow, that's a long thread.

Can anyone tell me what is the best FFDShow version? I tried one of Aug 1 pre-view version and it locked up MCE/WMP and I had to remove it.

Any help would be appreciated!!!!

This thread has been pretty quiet for a while now :) am I to assume everyone has the perfect setup and had glued the sides of their HTPC shut and ghosted it onto a dvd or two?! :-)

Im still exploring denoising HD DTV streams - is there a nice way to have multiple 'versions' of FFDSHOW (not versions, just settings :) such as how ZP allows you to use different reg-keys for different installations?

I''d like to just run denoise3d over 1920x1080 HD DTV streams (theyre generally sharp enough and at the right size, but very noisey).. Ive got the perfect PAL DVD settings allready :-) (well for the time being)...


assasin,
The 01 aug version works very well for me as I have an SSE2 capable processor, if it locked up your system then it may have been the configuration and not the version. You could experiment with other older/newer versions until you find one that works for you..

rodney_a,
Adding ffdshow into the mix forces the decoder into software mode - you cannot use ffdshow with DxVA.

elements,
Still having problems? - whenever i see that error its usually to do with a combination of audio/video decoders/renderes not getting along. Ie try a different audio renderer or video decoder. Take ffdshow out the loop and see if it works - it may just be a setting thats causing the problem.

Cheers,
Bitey

Did anybody try using ffdshow for decoding the audio part of dvds? Now most people are using intervideo windvd codecs, or dscaler 5 alpha, or powerdvd... But I see that it can now decode DD and DTS streams, so I'm curious to know how good it works...

Mr. Bitey,

I know there are filter setting presets you can use. The default is "Default", and you can make other image setting presets to switch between.

You MAY be able to have DVDs with separate settings than other files by using FFDSHOW Raw Video Filter for DVDs, and FFDSHOW Filter for other media files. Hopefully this would allow you to have different default settings, although they may be linked so changing one changes the other. That is something you'd have to experiment with.

For Sprchas or anybody else that needs them here is Andy's ffdshow file down load page. (http://ffdshow.leffe.dnsalias.com/andy2222/)

included here is the August 1st build by andy which is supposedly the fastest one out there.

Andy was going to work on getting higher tap settings (5-10) optimized in his great version of FFDShow (Aug1preview).

Anyone know if that is still going to happen?

I believe Andy was abducted by space aliens shortly after finishing the August version.

It may be kind of a moot point anyway. It's 5-10 lobes (not taps) and there were quite a few very active discussions about anything over 2 lobes just adding a lot of ringing and that you'd be a lot better off using a good sharpening filter after a 2-lobe resize rather than increasing the lobe count. So Andy's set to 2 works great, just a shame we don't have some seriously optimized sharpening routines to go along with it.

Originally posted by Mr.Bitey
Im still exploring denoising HD DTV streams - is there a nice way to have multiple 'versions' of FFDSHOW (not versions, just settings :) such as how ZP allows you to use different reg-keys for different installations?


Like cyberbri said, you can use the filter settings presets to load different settings for different things. The trick is to get the autoload conditions to work right. I have 3 presets for mine:

default, for my AVIs
-
DVD, for DVDs
SageTV, for SageTV

Originally posted by Mr.Bitey
Im still exploring denoising HD DTV streams - is there a nice way to have multiple 'versions' of FFDSHOW (not versions, just settings :) such as how ZP allows you to use different reg-keys for different installations?


Like cyberbri said, you can use the filter settings presets to load different settings for different things. It's under Image Settings. The trick is to get the autoload conditions to work right. I have 3 presets for mine:

default, for my video files
- on movie file extension match: avi;ogm;mkv;rm
DVD, for DVDs
- width and height min/max around DVD numbers (I forgot which, I think it was between 700-720 wide and 400-480 high)
- on application exe file name match: zplayer.exe
SageTV, for SageTV
- on application exe file name match: sagetv.exe

ffdshow then uses the DVD presets unless the program in use is sagetv or I'm playing a file with one of the listed extensions.

Not sure how to set it up for what you want, but that's how I got multiple settings to work for my purposes.

I have a question. Im running SageTV using DScaler for a deinterlacer, nVidia as a decoder and ffdshow (Andy's Aug1 Preview) to run some filters.

Currently Im using DeNoise3d (.5,.5,5 FAST) and Lanczos4 resize 1920x1080

The CPU load will stay ~90% while going through play back, but about every 2 minutes the CPU load will drop to about 50% and the pop back to 90% (fluctuating until it settles). This drop on CPU load always causes a stutter or dropped frame. Does anyone know why this occurs?

I would expect the CPU to jump up, but not drop out like that.... ?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks very much cyberbri and finlandia,

The autoload thingy sounds like the perfect solution, so long as I can get it working :-)) - otherwise some manual presets will do the business.

Cheers,
Bitey

judoGTI, is it possible you have the cause and effect reversed? The frame drops would easily lower the CPU utilization and is more likely just a symptom rather than the cause. If you lower your settings so it's not pushing quite so high does it behave the same way?

Originally posted by pcgeek
judoGTI, is it possible you have the cause and effect reversed? The frame drops would easily lower the CPU utilization and is more likely just a symptom rather than the cause. If you lower your settings so it's not pushing quite so high does it behave the same way?

I could have them reversed. The only reason I thought it was the way I listed it was because I could see the drop in CPU load occur first in thetask manager and then ~1second later what the stutter/drop occur in playback. But I guess that does mean it occured that way in the decoding.

If I remove all my filters and get the CPU load <85% this doesn't occur. But at the same time I lose picture quality.

I might try to reduce the encoding quality level from the TV and see if that helps (I currently have it set to encode at ~5-6GB's per hour of television.

hmmmm... Im very much wishing I shelled out for a higher powered CPU and MB now.

Okay, I found the source of the problem, but now I dont know how to fix it!

I receive a stutter every 1 minute on my HTPC. I have found that this occurs when my cable box (Scientific Atlantic Explorer 2000) changes the display time for each minute. So when my clock on the cable box goes from 9:10 to 9:11 I will then get a stutter/dropped frame in playback. I am connecting my cable box to the Hauppaggue PVR150 via S-Video.

Has anyone seen this before? How can I fix it?

Here is my setup:

Im running SageTV using DScaler for a deinterlacer, nVidia as a decoder and ffdshow (Andy's Aug1 Preview) to run some filters.

AMD64 2800+ (754) @2.4ghz
512MB RAM
Radeon 9550 256MB
Hauppaugge WintTV-PVR-150
XP Pro

JudoGTI,

I dont know the answer but DAMN thats wierd!

This may be a dumb presumption, but I presume youve unplugged your cable box to verify it is indeed that causing the problem and not something else occuring every minute..

Cheers,
Bitey

Hmmm, you know that is a good point, I didnt try with a recording and unplugging that bad boy. That will be my next test.

I've been reading the various guides and threads to setup and calibrate a HTPC and its display device. I'm afraid I've either misunderstood something and am doing something wrong since no one else seems to have the same problem...

My HTPC is fairly typical using ZoomPlayer, DScaler 5.0.0.6, VMR9 and ATI CCC for DVD playback. Using the DVE DVD to calibrate the display, I can confirm my HTPC in this configuration is passing blacker than black information (btb) and calibrate my display accordingly to the instructions on the disk.

When I add ffdshow in for postprocessing and do not select the resize filter, the btb levels are maintained at the display device. This is with the blur & NR filter enabled for example. However when I add the resize filter, regardless of resize method (bicubic, lanzcos or none), the btb information disappears immediately.

I've tried using the levels function to map different values (16-235) to maintain the btb information but without success. The btb information is only lost when the resize filter is enabled.

Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong?


Edit - Never mind, figured it out soon as I hit submit. It helps to have the levels filter before the resize....doh!

help please. I can't figure out how to get Zoom player and ffdshow to work together. And I don't want to read through this extremely large post to work it out. Can someone please post some updated instructions? or a pointer back to where up to date instructions can be found?

Thanks.

Eng, I'll go through it tomorrow with you at work - if your there tomorrow!

In Zoomplayer add ffdshow as an additional filter in the DVD settings. Choose the Dscaler decoder.

And in ffdshow:

Have you set "Raw Video" to "All supported" - under Codecs?

Set Resize to 1388x769 (or whatever it is) - with "No Aspect Ratio Correction"

The under Resize settings (look in tree) set it to Lanzcos 2 and Luma sharpen to 1.

Bring your new toy in tomorrow and I'll show you.

Mark

Ah okay, got it working. Now to look at some standard settings on this thread and try it out. What is the Dscaler Codec used for in zoomplayer and ffdshow?

The DScaler codec is a video/audio decoder, just like the nVidia codec, WinDVD6 codec, PowerDVD, etc. This isn't to be confused with the DScaler filter(s) inside ffdshow.

For viewing DVDs with Zoom Player, you have to select a video and audio codec (can be mixed/matched), audio renderer, and then there is the "additional filters" section where ffdshow goes.

You might also check the calibration thread in my signature to help you get the best picture quality out of your display device.

Ah got it working thanks. Now for more silly questions, I have an Athlon 64 3200 venice core, which version of ffdshow should I get?

I downloaded the ffdshow-20041012-sse2 version and with nothing else but:

Resize to 1280x720, process whole image, no aspect ratio correction, Lanczos 2, DScaler (no css) video decoder, overlay mixer,

My CPU is at 90% usage.

Seem a bit high to me. Is it?

You should configure Dscaler to output YV12. In zoom player, select the dscaler codec and press the C button on top to configure it.

As TwinkE mentioned, you can turn on YV12 output from DScaler rather than YUY2. If you output YUY2, you will need a filter (like Sharpness @ 1) before Resize in order to force the conversion. Doing this should help.

I also suggest using VMR9 Renderless (exclusive mode box checked). See the calibration thread in my signature for calibration tips and info on Overlay vs VMR9.

thanks, Dscaler output to YV12 check.

Also I have downloaded Andy's "ffdshow-20040801a_preview_SSE2.exe" and it is way quicker then the version I was using before. now CPU usage is max 70% on Lanczos 2.

Any reason not to continue using this version?

I have been reading all the threads on your signature by the way, it's just that theory and application are two different things.

is the VRM9 Renderless you mentioned the same asVRM9 windowless? at the moment I find the overlay mixer to give a deeper black then VRM9

Thanks for the help. this 119 page thread is too much to digest.

Renderless is different than Windowless. ZP version 4.5 has renderless in it, so I suggest that version.

And as stated in the calibration thread, Renderless operates different than Overlay, which is why Renderless seems washed out with regards to blacks.

Read the section that starts with this for a details - but overall I think most people prefer the picture quality of VMR9, once brightness (black level) is properly set:
Viewing video that is set to video levels, meaning that the reference "black" is at level 16 and the reference "white" is at level 235, with room in the 0-15 and 236-255 range for extra data, such as the screenshots taken from DVE here ( http://mistermax.smugmug.com/gallery/429986 ) through Overlay or VMR9 results in the following:

Thanks, I can see this keeping me busy for a long time

:-)

I must admit that I have not read thru all 118 pages :o
But what is the best FFDSHOW version for someone like me that not have a SS2 supported CPU(P4/AMD64)? Does Andy have a version for us? I have AMD XP2000( I know, to slow, but I have just invested in new picturetube)

In the past I've had de-interlacing troubles on my computer playing video captured off our digital video camera, as well as animated movies/anime.

But last night I had trouble with de-interlacing on the movie Closer, whether I used DScaler 5 or WinDVD 6 codecs, even with ffdshow Tomscomp deinterlacing. I checked ReClock and it said 29.97 fps for Closer.

Other video files downloaded off the Internet play fine. It's just the sources I mentioned above that have problems.

My computer setup is:
P4 2.8GHz
512 RAM
nVidia 5200 Ultra video card
connected to Samsung DLP using DVI

Any ideas on why this is happening?

I started a separate thread here, but it's not getting much attention:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=547803

Geeze, all I had to do was look about 5 up and read about Eng's results, sorry guys ...

Finally found a build that works with my setup, ffdshow20041012. The PQ is better than when using Nvidia. The cpu usage seems a bit high, about 60%, but I just started playing. Basically used the settings as outlined in http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=ffdshowdvd_1

Has anyone else has success with this build ?

Ken C

I like that build as well. I have had trouble with the audio codecs in WMP when playing certain WMV-HD trailers, and that version has audio filter options that let me play the files (the August version didn't feature those options).

I haven't checked the speed, or done screenshot comparisons using the same settings on the October versus August, but I can run both fine.

For settings, I have the DScaler 5 video codec (sometimes use WinDVD 6 on certain movies that have bad deinterlace flags) outputting YV12, and in ffdshow I resize to 1440x1200 (2x by 2.5x DVD resolution) using Lanczos 2, with .40 Luma Sharpen. I don't use any denoise, blur, or extra sharpening, and have found this to give the best, cleanest, sharpest-without-side-effects picture for me, on my display. I usually leave the DNR off on my Samsung DLP (43", viewed at 9' away), but if a certain DVD has a lot of noise, I turn that on rather than the 3denoise or blur, etc.

If you haven't done so yet, you should definitely calibrate your display to match your HTPC. Check out the calibration thread in my signature for the theory and how-to, along with a description of how VMR9 and Overlay work (they produce very different picture levels that you have to compensate for). Calibrating your display can give you a bigger jump in PQ than any HTPC software tweaks or filters.

Long drawn out question here.

I have spent about 10 hours of research and a large amount of time configuring ffdshow for my pc monitor. I cant seem to be able to get a good picture when I hit fullscreen with zoomplayer. When I start up the dvd it plays in a small window (here the picture looks fanfreakingtastic) but when I hit full screen to fill my monitor the picture quality drops to craptastic. I am using the resize command in ffdshow and have tried hunderds of different ways to make the picture look clean. My current setup of hardware and software is as follows.

amd xp 2500 (yah I need a new cpu)
win2k (desktop reso set to 1680x1050)
geforce 6800gt (AA and ani turned off) 77.13 drivers (even nvidias offical drivers 71.89 dont help)
1 gig of corsair xms ram
Dell 2005wpf 20 inch widescreen lcd 1680x1050 (using dvi)
zoomplayer 4.5
ffdshow 20041012-sse (tried andys versions and both crash when I run them)
dscaler5.006 (most current version)

In terms of perfromance the video runs smooth as silk until I hit the fullscreen, then depending on the resolution I have set in ffdshow it gets choppy (1680x1050 stutters) I have zoomplayer setup to vmr9 renderless and a host of many configurations in ffdshow none of which clean the picture up in full screen, also I have noticed objects that move fast (hands swords or even heads that turn fast) become striped (not sure of a proper term for this) if I dont have ffdshow set to interlace.

My question is this, since pc monitors are different than hdtv's where you are meant to sit farther away from the display (the full screen image looks ok at best at about 7 feet from the monitor) so the up close picture will look grainy compared to being 2 yards out. Or am I just missing an option in zoomplayer or in ffdshow that will create a large clean video at the the proper resolutions I have set? Any and all help is welcomed, i am starting to go crazy hehe.

Are you zooming or going full screen?

Also, I think you are noticing "combing", or bad deinterlacing as well with the fast movement.


First of all, take FFDSHOW out, and just run DScaler 5. This is fine for film-based DVDs that run at 24fps. Turn output in DScaler 5 to YV12, and set deinterlacing to Force Weave. Try just running that and see if you can figure out what's wrong.

Once you get that running, then you can bring FFDSHOW into the picture (no pun intended) and tweak.

Also, if you run ReClock as your audio renderer, it will also tell you what fps the video you are watching is running at. I have "combing" with 30fps video stuff, but can run 24fps material just fine.

BTW, what display are you using? A projector or something?

Thank you for the help cyberbri!

I am using a 20 inch widescreen dell lcd pc monitor.

If you mean by hitting the fullscreen/restore button then yes I am now I was hitting maximize window at first. For some reason zoomplayer crashed when i hit the fullscreen/restore tab so after a quick reinstall the problem was fixed. I had dscaler already set at the settings you recommended. I just installed reclock and am impressed by the audio quality, is this one of the better programs for dvd audio?


So far the picture is a lil bit better but not to much, still doesnt come close to the quality of the smaller box when the program starts up before I hit fullscreen/restore./

Thank you for the help cyberbri!

I am using a 20 inch widescreen dell lcd pc monitor.

If you mean by hitting the fullscreen/restore button then yes I am now I was hitting maximize window at first. For some reason zoomplayer crashed when i hit the fullscreen/restore tab so after a quick reinstall the problem was fixed. I had dscaler already set at the settings you recommended. I just installed reclock and am impressed by the audio quality, is this one of the better programs for dvd audio?


So far the picture is a lil bit better but not to much, still doesnt come close to the quality of the smaller box when the program starts up before I hit fullscreen/restore./

Make sure your interlace box is clear, not grey or checked. It has 3 settings just click it a few times and you will see.

I had the same problem and doing this fix cleared up the picture on full screen. Do do not see it in window mode but full screen yuck lines all over the place.

Nvidia cards are known to have major smoothness problems with VMR9 and high resolutions using DVI or Component output, my 6600GT sure does, even with full screen Renderless output from Zoom Player.
I believe VGA is OK.
Overlay is very good on the newer Nvidia cards and solves the problem.
Using Theatertek as your player in VMR9 full screen exclusive renderless mode should also solve the problem, it does for me although I have to say your CPU is very weak for FFDShow use.
TT is able to provide smooth playback where Zoom Player cannot, even when both are using VMR9 full screen exclusive renderless mode. This is probably due to the custom allocater-presenter that TT uses.

It’s too much to expect DVD’s to look clean and sharp full screen on a large PC monitor, no matter how they are played. Remember that NTSC DVD’s are only 720x480 resolution.

Long drawn out question here.

I have spent about 10 hours of research and a large amount of time configuring ffdshow for my pc monitor. I cant seem to be able to get a good picture when I hit fullscreen with zoomplayer. ... My current setup of hardware and software is as follows.

amd xp 2500 (yah I need a new cpu)
win2k (desktop reso set to 1680x1050)
geforce 6800gt (AA and ani turned off) 77.13 drivers (even nvidias offical drivers 71.89 dont help)
1 gig of corsair xms ram
Dell 2005wpf 20 inch widescreen lcd 1680x1050 (using dvi)
zoomplayer 4.5
ffdshow 20041012-sse (tried andys versions and both crash when I run them)
dscaler5.006 (most current version)



For 6600/6800 based cards, lot of people have reported problems scaling it higher than 1280x720 unless u r using vmr9 renderless with exclusize fullscreen mode.

One option for u is to try reducing ur display resolution (and ffdshow resize) to 1280x720 and see if that helps.

I am using zp4.5 > dscaler > andy's ffdshow > 6600GT > panasonic 50 LCD RPTV. and still trying tweaking ffdshow/zp settings (may be more than 10 hrs :)) to get a good quality picture at the full screen mode (due to overscan my actual resolution is 1228x691 instead of 1280x720p).

Please excuse the ignorant question, but what is "exclusive fullscreen" mode?

I'm running TT, ffdshow, and using VMR9 renderless. Am I missing a switch somewhere?

Thanks.

Cary

Using Theatertek as your player in VMR9 full screen exclusive renderless mode should also solve the problem, it does for me although I have to say your CPU is very weak for FFDShow use.

It'll be just fine. I resize to 1920x1080 with lanzcos 2 on my Athlon XP2400+, and that's all I want/need.

Add Denoise3d into the mix and watch it fall over. :D
Also remember that most people here are using 60Hz systems, not 50Hz.
60Hz is more demanding.

I watch both PAL and NTSC, they both work.

I don't like Denoise3d, not enough to buy a new PC for it anyway. 5.1 channel DRC might make me upgrade though ;).

I have an upscaling DVD player with a Farouja chip and got it hook up to my 44" widescreen DLP TV through DVI cable. On older titles, I get terrible macroblocking problems. Like on the movie Alien, the black space is filled with flashing matted blocks kind of like an anomally. The newer titles are all ok. I play movies on 720p.

If I have a 3.5 ghz PC with a GeforceFX 6800 and 2 gigs of ram, would I get better picture quality?

Please excuse the ignorant question, but what is "exclusive fullscreen" mode?

I'm running TT, ffdshow, and using VMR9 renderless. Am I missing a switch somewhere?


Exclusive fullscreen mode is where the ZP behaves like a Game. u cant right click and get the ZP menu and u cant use windows multitasking features. The only thing u can do is watch DVDs like a stand-alone dvd player.

Nvidia 6600GT, when used for higher resolutions like 1080i, works properly with ZP/ffdshow only in 'exlcusive' renderless mode. otherwise it stutters.

If u r not facing any stutters, there is no need to use the exclusive mode (unless u want it to. it's there in the ZP filtercontrols>setting tab. The last option in the page)

Thanks iamtarun.

I'm using TT and they just call it "renderless" mode. Looks like it's the same thing and I'm not missing anything.

Cary

i face the following problem whenever i try to use the autoload preset.

my setup is zp + dscaler + ffdshow andy's + 6600GT dvi->hdmi -> PT50LC14 720p.
desktop resolution is 1228x691 ( 4% overscan set via nvidia)

I have a preset profile 'dvd'1280' to a) resize to 1280x720, b) keep original aspect ratio. When I use this profile without autoloadpreset, the video fills in the screen as expected. ( ie. for anamorphic dvds, there is no vertical bar and small horizantal bars on top/bottom).

Then I make this preset to autoload for movies with NTSC resolution.
I stop the ZP and restart it again.

Now it picks up the right preset profile, but the video is only in the center.
I see vertical bars and horizontal bars (even in fullscreen mode), ie. half of the display is with black bars :(

what is going wrong when i try to autoload presets? thx in adv for ur help

Lanczos2/4 luma sharpen (.80-1.60) vs mSharpen HQ 40-80/15/0 after resize.

I don't know how many have tried this, but in my setup it results in considerably less ringing while maintaining a nice level of sharpness. Try it, you might like it. Requires a bit more cpu power but still within limits of lesser systems.

I´ve read almost all replies in this thread, but after a whlie you just cant focus that hard anymore ;). As a member said earlier in this thread "my mind is mush.

I´ve run into a serious problem. I´m trying to get ffdshow to work with zoomplayer and sonic dvd pack. As long as im playing avi files etc. theres no problem, but when want to play PAL DVD:s zoomplayer gives up on me and i get the following error message:

[sonic cinemaster ds video decoder].video out --- [fdshow prcessor].in

not all filter can connect properly. If the filter listed above is an "additional filter", try unchecking it.... yada..yada..yada...

Additional information:
80040207

that is when ffdshow filter is enabled as an additional filter. When not, ZP plays PAL DVD:s without a single problem!!??
What am i doing wrong. Everything have been done as in the ffdshow guide at htpcnews, i´ve added ALLOWALLRENDERERS in regedit aswell.... and still dosent get it to work.
I´m hoping that you can help me

//Eric

Troutbum, have you made the following change to the registry?

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Sonic\CineMaster DS DVD\2.5\VideoDecoder]
"HardCodeForPAL"=dword:00000001

@prooftech
What does it do?? I tried it this morning without any luck. It still shows the same error...

I know the guide at htpcnews is a bit out of date and i´ve followed it to the point. Is there some different settings or software combinations that might work better??.
As i mentioned in my last post ZP works fine when FFDSHOW is disabled.

I´ve read a little about DScaler here and there in this thread, what is it and what does it do?.

//Eric

I use FFDshow 05232003 (raw mode selected) with ZP 3.0. With a custom filtergraph taked from the forum it works great with Sonic cinemanster.
But if I don't use custom filter and only select in ZP Windvd filter audio & video (version 5.026.6) and check FFDshow, ZP crashes both using overlay and VMR9.
I've tried ZP RC3 and many settings and suggestions from the forum without results. If I uncheck FDDshow ZP works fine with WinDVD filters.

This is my problem exactly..... except i`ve got a more recent version of ZP.

//Eric

Hi.

Who is the author of the latest ffdshow version? cutka@szm.sk?

it`ll be usefull to make decoder configuration in MCE 2005 shell. Like "Ati Configuration", or icon under More Programs.

Is it real?

ps Sorry for some mistakes.

@prooftech


I know the guide at htpcnews is a bit out of date and i´ve followed it to the point. Is there some different settings or software combinations that might work better??.
As i mentioned in my last post ZP works fine when FFDSHOW is disabled.

I´ve read a little about DScaler here and there in this thread, what is it and what does it do?.

//Eric


Recommened settings:

-Zoom Player 4.50
Running VMR9 Renderless, Exclusive Mode box checked
(calibrate display to VMR9 levels, which are different than Overlay levels -- see thread in my signature)

-DScaler 5.0.0.6 or nVidia video/audio codec
With DScaler, output YV12 and set deinterlacing to Force Weave. I don't use nVidia, so I don't know what settings to put there

Once ZP is playing DVDs with your chosen codec, plug in FFDSHOW. Try the August version HERE (http://ffdshow.leffe.dnsalias.com/andy2222/) if your computer supports SSE2, HT, etc. Otherwise, get the October 12 version HERE (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=53761&package_id=59355&release_id=274595).

For ffdshow, use Lanczos, parameter of 2, for resize to 2x DVD resolution, with Luma Sharpen set to 0.40. Then output in YV12. If you are not outputting straight into YV12 with DScaler 5.0.0.6, you may need to put a filter before resize, such as Sharpen Unsharp Maks @ 1, to force the conversion. Otherwise the frame rate will be extremely choppy. Once you get it running, you can experiment with different sharpness settings, add in Denoise/Blur if you feel you need it, etc.


There are several Dscaler programs. One is the 5.0.0.6 mpeg decoder, which is used as a video codec to play DVDs. DScaler is also the name of a deinterlacing, etc. program, accessible within FFDSHOW.

@prooftech
What does it do?? I tried it this morning without any luck. It still shows the same error...
I believe HardCodeForPAL has to be changed to “1” to make Sonic and FFDshow work with each other when playing PAL DVDs. Since it didn’t solve your problem, I suggest moving to DScaler5. I used Sonic a while back, but now I use DScaler5.

Eh...is there a rational reason for using Sonic Cineplayer, after at least four decoders has killed it on picture quality (first WinDVD 5, then Elecard, then dScaler 5 and nVIDIA)? I would just dump the rotting carcass and turn to dScaler 5.

With so many people following the HTPC news guide, and it is a very good guide for getting people up and running, im wondering if we should see if the authors over at htpcnews would update the guide to use dscaler? :-)

This FAQ is great once your to the HTPC news guide point - its just getting to that point people may be wasting $$ on the sonic decoder..

Cheers,
Bitey

Oh my god... So that's why! I wrote a guide in norwegian, but that's not translated into english. I of course recommend the dScaler 5.

Is dScaler5 better than WinDVD now? I'm kinda out of the scene, and last I checked WinDVD was the best. That was in the days of WinDVD5 and 6. Now there's 7.

Yes, no doubt. At least on my system, a CRT projector, there's a "better" picture. I see better detail, especially in dark scenes, and the image is clearer and sharper.

Mastiff

Do you have a link to your ffdshow guide in norwegian, i´m swedish and thought i would give it a try since it`s probably a little better updated than the one at HTPCnews.

//Eric

This is about ffdshow: http://www.hardware.no/artikkel/15836

The rest of the HTPC guides can be accessed here: http://www.hardware.no/guider

I have pentium4 (3.2GHz HT processor) with 1G of ddr2 RAM. Only weak link is x300 pci express video card. I installed oct12/2004 version of ffdshow and zoom player professional with power_dvd 6.0 decoders.

I got zoom-player to work with basic settings in ffdshow with VMR9 windowless, but somehow I am not able to use resize/aspect option in ffdshow without video lossing frames or getting very choopy.

Currently I am only using Blur and NR with denoise3d where l=0 c=1, time=5, HQ. OSD displays cpu usuage of about 25-50%, If i try resize to anything higher than 1.5x of dvd resolution, things go bad, chossing any other or all the options have no adverse effect on dvd playback. My desktop is set at 1280x720

Please advice if I need to use another version of ffdshow to make it work

Sonisame

Sonisame, you should try the 20040801a version of FFDshow. It can be found here. (http://ffdshow.leffe.dnsalias.com/andy2222/) Also try using VMR9 renderless (in exclusive full screen mode) instead of VMR9 windowless.

I've been trying to follow this thread, but in terms of its sheer size, its really hard to trace to my specific question (although it is rather generic), so please excuse me if it has been repeated beforehand:

I presently am upgrading to an HTPC system comprised of:

- AMD Athlon 64 3200 (Winchester core)
- 1GB Memory Cas 2 timing
- 6600GT video card
- Westinghouse 37" 108p monitor

Presently i use Windows Media Player as my main source of DVD playback. I have installed ffdshow and tweaked it accordingy to the HTPC site recommendations, but I'm unclear whether it is actually working in Media Player. I have the OSD turned on, so I do see it output on MPEG files, but not on DVD;s.

So does ffdshow work with Media Player, or do i have to buy a third party dvd player like Theatretek, etc. in order for it to work properly (any free programs that can utilize the ffdshow filters would be nice as well). Is there a specific way to turn on VRM9 in Media Player or is it defaulted to it?

tia

Get Zoom Player 4.50, turn on VMR9 Renderless (check the Exclusive Mode box), and plug in your own mpeg audio/video codecs (ie., DScaler 5.0.0.6, nVidia, WinDVD, etc.). Then just put in ffdshow in the Additional Filters box, and you're good to go.

Sonisame, do you have the denoise after resize? That doesn't work. Also the OSD steals a lot of CPU. And you should try the version ProofTech says, that's the best one for P4.

Sonisame, I found it incredibly frustrating how many verisons of FFDshow are floating out there and how many mixed recommendations you get about which one is best.

I have read that the new versions ARE SSE/P4 enhanced, so there is no reason to use the old 2004 versions.

I am running a 3.4ghz P4 with 1gb ram and resizing to 2x DVD resolution with minimal (maybe 30 max) % CPU usage). I'm not running denoise however.

Cheers.

I have tested the latest Celtic Druid build, and it works very well on my P4 3.8 Gig system for DVD Lanczos upscaling, however Denoise3d must be used in HQ mode, as I get very nasty motion artifacts and banding with Chroma settings of 2.0 or more in non “HQ” mode.

Nether normal or HQ modes of Denoise3d are fast enough for 1080i HD with “HQ” mode requiring about 10% more CPU.

Denoise3d in Andy’s SSE2 “Preview” build in “Fast” mode is significantly faster, and can be used for 1080i HD without any problem on my system.
Also the normal mode does not suffer the strange artifacts that can afflict the Celtic Druid build in none HQ (normal) mode.

So, if you only upscale DVD’s, and are careful with the settings you use for Denoise3d, the Celtic Druid builds works well. But if you want to use Denoise3d on HD video, Andy’s build seems like the only option.
Users of slower PC’s could well be better of using Andy’s build as well, especially if they want to use Denoise3d.

I'm stumped after spending hours trying to stop the stuttering in FFDShow. Any recommendations?
My set-up:
Pioneer Elite 50" @ 1280 x 768 res.
P4 2.4GHz, HT, 800MHz FSB
1G RAM
NVIDIA 6600 GT AGP w/DVI-to-XVGA input to plasma
Audigy 2
MyHD MDP-130
WinTV-350 PVR
Win XP Pro SP2 + latest updates
ZP:4.51 Pro
FFDShow: 10-12-04
Decoder: NVIDIA NVDVD v3+ (from latest driver - 7.7.7.2)
Have tried upgrade from NVIDIA Personal Cinema to 6600 GT
Have tried VMR9 Windowless, Renderless, & Overlay
Have tried NVIDIA & DScaler
Have tried disabling H/W accelerator & AA
Have tried different resize resolutions
Have tried different resize parameter, luma & sharpen values
I continue to get imaging stuttering to one degree or another as long as FFDShow is selected as a filter in ZP and when the resize resolution is higher than the input resolution. When FFDShow is removed or if it is added as a filter and resolution is at or below, then no stuttering - but then no advantage to use FFDShow either.

Any recommendations on configurations or settings to realize the benefits of FFDShow?

Hi,
I have some Problems with the 20040801a preview SSE2 optimized Andy's version and hope there is a tip, what happens.
My Con-fig:
OS: Windows XP Pro with SP2
Video card: Radeon 9600 with 5,7
CPU: P4 2,8 GHz Northwood
Output resolution: 1280x720@50 hz
Video Codec: DScaler 5.006
Video Renderer: VMR9
Ffdshow version:

Fdshow filters used (in order)
1. denoise 3D 0,5- 0,5- 4 Fast
2. Lanczos4 resize 2x DVD Luma sharpen 1.0
4. YV12 (output colorspace)

With some other Version of FFDSHOW this settings work but the CPU- Usage is sometimes to high. So I take the Preview- Version, to test it.
With this Version I have two Problems:
1. It looks like the Green Picture- Part is round about 1/3 displace to the upper Picture. Only when I set the Output- Colorspace to YUY2 it looks OK. Any Idea whats happen?
2. The upper Part of the Picture is cuttet and replaced to black. Also remarkably is when I have a look to Reclock, it tell me there is a Size of 1408x960. But I play a PAL- Stream and than the right Size must be 1408x1152 ore something. Is this Version only for NTSC ore whats wrong?

I have test all the settings in FFDSHOW and play with them, but there is no solution yet.

Thanks a lot for any help, best regards Damdy

I'm stumped after spending hours trying to stop the stuttering in FFDShow. Any recommendations?
My set-up:
Pioneer Elite 50" @ 1280 x 768 res.
P4 2.4GHz, HT, 800MHz FSB
1G RAM
NVIDIA 6600 GT AGP w/DVI-to-XVGA input to plasma
Audigy 2
MyHD MDP-130
WinTV-350 PVR
Win XP Pro SP2 + latest updates
ZP:4.51 Pro
FFDShow: 10-12-04
Decoder: NVIDIA NVDVD v3+ (from latest driver - 7.7.7.2)
Have tried upgrade from NVIDIA Personal Cinema to 6600 GT
Have tried VMR9 Windowless, Renderless, & Overlay
Have tried NVIDIA & DScaler
Have tried disabling H/W accelerator & AA
Have tried different resize resolutions
Have tried different resize parameter, luma & sharpen values
I continue to get imaging stuttering to one degree or another as long as FFDShow is selected as a filter in ZP and when the resize resolution is higher than the input resolution. When FFDShow is removed or if it is added as a filter and resolution is at or below, then no stuttering - but then no advantage to use FFDShow either.

Any recommendations on configurations or settings to realize the benefits of FFDShow?

I am not a real expert, like Owen and others here, but from reading the posts, I got the impression that P4 2.4 is too slow for ffdshow. Can you overclock the cpu and the ram?

P4 2.8 northwood can overclock to 3.2 and fsb to 1000. I believe that was what Owen used in his set up last year.

It's a little low depending on what you are asking FFDShow to do. You can also search for some of the old threads on setting the PCI bus latency.

Thanks Mastiff and PAP and Owen for your help. I got Andy's version working and I am satisfied with results so far. I am little hesitant to try the new celtic version of ffdshow for now, maybe I will try it once its gets more stable

Sonisame

Recommened settings:

-Zoom Player 4.50
Running VMR9 Renderless, Exclusive Mode box checked
(calibrate display to VMR9 levels, which are different than Overlay levels -- see thread in my signature)

-DScaler 5.0.0.6 or nVidia video/audio codec
With DScaler, output YV12 and set deinterlacing to Force Weave. I don't use nVidia, so I don't know what settings to put there

Once ZP is playing DVDs with your chosen codec, plug in FFDSHOW. Try the August version HERE (http://ffdshow.leffe.dnsalias.com/andy2222/) if your computer supports SSE2, HT, etc. Otherwise, get the October 12 version HERE (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=53761&package_id=59355&release_id=274595).

For ffdshow, use Lanczos, parameter of 2, for resize to 2x DVD resolution, with Luma Sharpen set to 0.40. Then output in YV12. If you are not outputting straight into YV12 with DScaler 5.0.0.6, you may need to put a filter before resize, such as Sharpen Unsharp Maks @ 1, to force the conversion. Otherwise the frame rate will be extremely choppy. Once you get it running, you can experiment with different sharpness settings, add in Denoise/Blur if you feel you need it, etc.


There are several Dscaler programs. One is the 5.0.0.6 mpeg decoder, which is used as a video codec to play DVDs. DScaler is also the name of a deinterlacing, etc. program, accessible within FFDSHOW.


Where is the Renderless Exclusive check box located? Ive tried select VMR9 renderless and I get choppy video. If I change it to Windowless it plays great. My system should be able to handle renderless

I am not sure off the top of my head. Sorry. You'll have to search the ZP options for it, or search the last pages of this thread to see if someone lists its location.

Where is the Renderless Exclusive check box located? Ive tried select VMR9 renderless and I get choppy video. If I change it to Windowless it plays great. My system should be able to handle renderless

You won't see any PQ improvment w/ renderless. In fact, you will find out that full screen renderless will keep you from multitasking like tweaking on the fly.
ATI cards work great w/ VMR9 rendering. You don't need renderless.
But to try it, go to filter control, settings and check the bottom box...

thanks for all the good info on ffdshow

just got theatertek
p4 3.0 ghz
radeon 9800pro
powerstrip,dvd idle, dila g11


some newbie questions:
i installed the newest version of tt with the patch.
i've been reading about the preview build and have that downloaded
is the prevailing wisdom still to install the preview for better performance?

my cpu usage with film material currently is 35%


my projector's native res is 1360x1024
in order

blur&nr
gradual denoise 22
sharpen
unsharp mask, strength 40
resize at 1440x960
settings: lanczos
luma sharpen 0.40


tt
yuv,fullscreen


should i change to the preview version and try higher settings?
if so do i need to uninstall first and do i need to re-register?

any settings suggestions appreciated.

thanks.

If you change versions of ffdshow, it's a good idea to uninstall first. If you're happy with your performance and pq, I'd say don't bother with chaning versions of ffdshow...

I'm stumped after spending hours trying to stop the stuttering in FFDShow. Any recommendations?
My set-up:
Pioneer Elite 50" @ 1280 x 768 res.
P4 2.4GHz, HT, 800MHz FSB
1G RAM
NVIDIA 6600 GT AGP w/DVI-to-XVGA input to plasma
Audigy 2
MyHD MDP-130
WinTV-350 PVR
Win XP Pro SP2 + latest updates
ZP:4.51 Pro
FFDShow: 10-12-04
Decoder: NVIDIA NVDVD v3+ (from latest driver - 7.7.7.2)
Have tried upgrade from NVIDIA Personal Cinema to 6600 GT
Have tried VMR9 Windowless, Renderless, & Overlay
Have tried NVIDIA & DScaler
Have tried disabling H/W accelerator & AA
Have tried different resize resolutions
Have tried different resize parameter, luma & sharpen values
I continue to get imaging stuttering to one degree or another as long as FFDShow is selected as a filter in ZP and when the resize resolution is higher than the input resolution. When FFDShow is removed or if it is added as a filter and resolution is at or below, then no stuttering - but then no advantage to use FFDShow either.

Any recommendations on configurations or settings to realize the benefits of FFDShow?

More CPU power required there dude, 3Ghz minimum and for best quality settings even that is to slow.

Andys “Preview” build has its limitations.
Both the Lanczozs resize and denoise3d filters do not have any color space conversion code built in, as all the normal FFDShow builds do. This will cause many people problems with green or black screens. This should not be seen as a bug, just a characteristic.
You need to ensure that these filters are fed only YV12. You can do this by using a decoder that can output YV12 directly (Dscaler, Nvidia) or you can use another FFDShow filter before them, like “Unsharp mask” set to minimum to do the YUV-YV12 conversion.
Even with these tricks, there can still be problems.
I find that “Fast” mode always works with 1080i HD, but can be troublesome with DVD’s, where as normal mode works with SD and HD.
I have never been able to figure out exactly what is going on and why, but the limitations can usually be worked around.

If people are not having problems with normal builds of FFDShow, like the official or Celtic Druid builds they should stick with them.
For those trying to squeeze the last bit of speed out of there system, then Andys “Preview” build can be faster and work reliably if you understand its limitations.

Always uninstall FFDShow before installing a deferent version.

Regards,

Owen

You won't see any PQ improvment w/ renderless. In fact, you will find out that full screen renderless will keep you from multitasking like tweaking on the fly.
ATI cards work great w/ VMR9 rendering. You don't need renderless.
But to try it, go to filter control, settings and check the bottom box...


Full screen exclusive renderless mode is the fastest (other then Overlay), even on Radeon cards.
It’s just that Radeon users can often get away without it, where as Nvidia users often cant.

Full screen exclusive renderless mode is the fastest (other then Overlay), even on Radeon cards.
It’s just that Radeon users can often get away without it, where as Nvidia users often cant.


does that mean renderless gives me no difference in pq if i'm using a radeon?

would settings need to change if i switch back to overlay?

i'm having dvd navigation issues currently and switching back may sove my problem.

With some other Version of FFDSHOW this settings work but the CPU- Usage is sometimes to high. So I take the Preview- Version, to test it.
With this Version I have two Problems:
1. It looks like the Green Picture- Part is round about 1/3 displace to the upper Picture. Only when I set the Output- Colorspace to YUY2 it looks OK. Any Idea whats happen?
2. The upper Part of the Picture is cuttet and replaced to black. Also remarkably is when I have a look to Reclock, it tell me there is a Size of 1408x960. But I play a PAL- Stream and than the right Size must be 1408x1152 ore something. Is this Version only for NTSC ore whats wrong?

I have test all the settings in FFDSHOW and play with them, but there is no solution yet.

Thanks a lot for any help, best regards Damdy

I have found the solution! Haven't found the right Search- Words to find the Threads to this issue, by a lot of searching. Now I have luck and setting DScaler to Pal Hardcodes and YV12 solve both Problems.

@jmonaco:
Test the preview Version from Andy. At my Config, they take less CPU- Power as the other Versions. First time, the denoise3D run on my HTPC. If you live in PAL- Land, see the solution above if the Problems are the same.

Regards Damdy

More CPU power required there dude, 3Ghz minimum and for best quality settings even that is to slow.

Actually, more power supply power made a tremendous improvement. The new 6600GT card was not getting enough power from the Seasonic 300W PS. Upgraded to Antec 480W TruePower. I suspect upgrading to a 3.0 GHz CPU will help a bit more. Thanks.

Recommened settings:

-Zoom Player 4.50
Running VMR9 Renderless, Exclusive Mode box checked
(calibrate display to VMR9 levels, which are different than Overlay levels -- see thread in my signature)

-DScaler 5.0.0.6 or nVidia video/audio codec
With DScaler, output YV12 and set deinterlacing to Force Weave. I don't use nVidia, so I don't know what settings to put there

Once ZP is playing DVDs with your chosen codec, plug in FFDSHOW. Try the August version HERE (http://ffdshow.leffe.dnsalias.com/andy2222/) if your computer supports SSE2, HT, etc. Otherwise, get the October 12 version HERE (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=53761&package_id=59355&release_id=274595).

For ffdshow, use Lanczos, parameter of 2, for resize to 2x DVD resolution, with Luma Sharpen set to 0.40. Then output in YV12. If you are not outputting straight into YV12 with DScaler 5.0.0.6, you may need to put a filter before resize, such as Sharpen Unsharp Maks @ 1, to force the conversion. Otherwise the frame rate will be extremely choppy. Once you get it running, you can experiment with different sharpness settings, add in Denoise/Blur if you feel you need it, etc.


There are several Dscaler programs. One is the 5.0.0.6 mpeg decoder, which is used as a video codec to play DVDs. DScaler is also the name of a deinterlacing, etc. program, accessible within FFDSHOW.

Thank you for your help. I made significant progress this afternoon by replacing the 300W Seasonic PS with a 480W Antec TruePower PS. I suspect upgrading the CPU from 2.4 to 3.0 on the same MB may take me further along. I found an (unoffical I believe) August 4, 2005 version of FFDShow. Given my success this afternoon (can resize up to 1280x768 w/o stutter), and my finding of the 8/4/05 version, would you still recommend using the Aug'04 version?

Full screen exclusive renderless mode is the fastest (other then Overlay), even on Radeon cards.
It’s just that Radeon users can often get away without it, where as Nvidia users often cant.

My CPU usage actually is higher, say 5-10% using FS Renderless. Usually on interlaced video. No difference at all w/ film. Strange but true.....(9800PRO/XP3000+). Maybe it is releated to having a dual monitor setup....

Thank you for your help. I made significant progress this afternoon by replacing the 300W Seasonic PS with a 480W Antec TruePower PS. I suspect upgrading the CPU from 2.4 to 3.0 on the same MB may take me further along. I found an (unoffical I believe) August 4, 2005 version of FFDShow. Given my success this afternoon (can resize up to 1280x768 w/o stutter), and my finding of the 8/4/05 version, would you still recommend using the Aug'04 version?


Unless things have changed, the fastest version is still Andy's hand-optimized August version from last year. Try that one with basic Lanczos 2 resize and see how it goes.

Yes, Andy's Aug'04 version did the trick! I was able to go as high as 1920x1080 without any stuttering. The only quirk was that the image size was less than full screen. I've settled on 2X DVD 1440x960. It comes a few pixels shy on the sides but it is OK. Per the OSD, CPU utilization seems to rise to 30-50% depending on the frame. The clarity of resolution on the tweed clothing and faces in Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers is excellent. It is interesting to see the differences between different versions of ffdshow. Between replacing the Seasonic 300W PS with an Antec 480W to provide enough power for the 6600GT card and using's Andy's Aug'04 version of ffdshow, the performance and results are excellent. Thank you all for your guidance. This thread and the support on this forum is outstanding.

John

That's great. One thing though, don't use the FFDSHOW OSD, if that's what you're referring to. It takes up a surprising amount of CPU on its own, and is hard to read anyway. Try the Task Manager CPU readout for a much more accurate view.

Who's using Radeon's? They were killed by the 6600/6800's more than a year ago! ;) Anyway, I will say that the picture seems sharper and clearer on exclusive than regular renderless and other forms of VMR9.

Death to the Radeon! ;)

Hey, it's already dead! It's just that some people seems to be hellbent on trying to re-animate the corpse every now and then, just like the attempts at passing AMD whatevers off as just as good as P4's on FFDShow use... :cool:

does that mean renderless gives me no difference in pq if i'm using a radeon?

would settings need to change if i switch back to overlay?

i'm having dvd navigation issues currently and switching back may sove my problem.


Sorry if this not what you want to here, but if you cant see a difference between various modes why worry?
Just use what you find best for you, for what ever reason.

Doing a lot of reading and have set up ZP (the demo for now), Dscaler5 and FFDshow. I wanted to confirm one thing. I have a native 720P projector. I want to use the FFDshow resize of 1.5x to go from the 480 of DVD's to the 720 on my PJ so that my PJ isn't doing any scaling, correct ?

I ask because I see a lot of people saying resize of 2-3x. I assume that is for watching DVD's on one's monitor, rather than a PJ.

Is a 1.5x resize correct for viewing DVD's on a 720P (native) PJ ?

Thanks in advance.

Your desktop should be set at whatever resolution is necessary to send to the projector. You can scale the video to any size, and your video card will scale it to the desktop resolution on its own. Ie., if you don't upscale at all, it is your video card that scales the video to your desktop resolution in full-screen mode. If you upscale the video to 3x DVD resolution, then you are smoothing the picture out, bringing out more detail, etc., and your video card scales that back down to the desktop resolution to send to the projector.

Ah, ok, thanks ! I had a feeling I was missing something with all the talk of 2-3X scaling. I will definitely try that, then. Thanks again :)

I am curious about one thing, though. I am pretty new to HT so I hope you will forgive any ignorant questions. From reading AVS, I understand that outside of an HTPC, the less conversions you do, the better. That is, you wouldn't want to tell your cable box to output a 720 program as 1080 and then have your 720 PJ convert back down when you could just send 720 straight to the projector.

This appears to not be the case with HTPCs (or at least ones using the ZP/FFDShow setup)? That is, if I upscale a 480 DVD x3.0 to 1440, use some of the settings mentioned previously to improve the PQ at that resolution, and then my video card automatically scales it back to the 720 used by my PJ (and that my desktop is set to), I am not losing the improvements that I made at 1440 (vs just resizing the 480 image 1.5x to 720) ?

- Kel

Although you should ultimately go with what looks best to your eyes, the theory is that by upscaling higher, you can get a cleaner and smoother picture, and then let the video card take the best information from that and give you a better picture. Some people still only scale up to their desktop resolution (1280x720, or 1232x694 for example for users like me who get rid of overscan on RP-TVs), some to 2x DVD resolution, and some go higher.

I do 1440x1200, which is 2x DVD resolution horizontally, and 2.5x DVD res vertically. I feel this gives me the best compromise between resolution and speed. I only upscale with Lanczos 2, .40 or .50 Luma Sharpen, no denoise/blur, using DScaler 5.0.0.6 for my video codec. This is on a P4 2.8 w/ 512 RAM and an nVidia 5200 Ultra card.

Find whatever works best for your setup - picture quality, speed, frame rate smoothness, etc. etc.

This appears to not be the case with HTPCs (or at least ones using the ZP/FFDShow setup)? That is, if I upscale a 480 DVD x3.0 to 1440, use some of the settings mentioned previously to improve the PQ at that resolution, and then my video card automatically scales it back to the 720 used by my PJ (and that my desktop is set to), I am not losing the improvements that I made at 1440 (vs just resizing the 480 image 1.5x to 720) ?

I think it depends on the equipment you have and your perception of the image. On my setup, I can either send my TV its native resolution (1368x788) or 1080i. The image is sharper if I resize my DVDs to 1920x1080 and send it to the TV at 1920x1080i, and have the TV scale it back down to its native rez.

So try out different settings, your results will vary.

While playing dvd through Zoomplayer 4.5, I get error in quartz.dll (I dont have the exact error error description with me currently) using andy's version of ffdshow for rescale to3x dvd res, anything lower than that works, is there a fix for it?

Also for playing HD clips, I think 2-3x resolution is too much for asking, is there a way to have ffdshow not rescale if video res is higher than 720x480.

Soniame

Yeah, in the resize window there is a "conditions" box - you can set it to "always," or "only if xx/yy"

Hi Cyberbri
But that resize parameter you mentioned is something like
resize if x>some number and y>some number

I wanted otherways, reseize if x<some number and y<some number

Am I doing something wrong

Sonisame

Hey, it's already dead! It's just that some people seems to be hellbent on trying to re-animate the corpse every now and then, just like the attempts at passing AMD whatevers off as just as good as P4's on FFDShow use... :cool:


hah! i'm for whatever gives me the best picture/performance. haven't tried a 6600
or whatever is the new hot card. i've got a machine a couple years old. the radeon
was from another machine.

i've never heard anyone knock amd over pentium either. what's ffdshow got against amd?

Hi Cyberbri
But that resize parameter you mentioned is something like
resize if x>some number and y>some number

I wanted otherways, reseize if x<some number and y<some number

Am I doing something wrong

Sonisame

There's no option to change </>?
If so, then you might try different user preset profiles (Default -> DVD & HD video) that you can switch back and forth.

There's no option to change </>?
If so, then you might try different user preset profiles (Default -> DVD & HD video) that you can switch back and forth.

Thanks Cyberbri for your user profile suggestion.

But I think the option to resize if x< some number and y< some number makes more sense, other way around( the way currently it is) it does not do any benefit to users who are looking to resize only the low res video signals.

Sonisame

i've never heard anyone knock amd over pentium either. what's ffdshow got against amd?

You sure those 500 + posts of yours aren't a bluff? :p Seriously, that was an extremely hot topic until maybe the middle of this winter, but the AMD fanboys sort of gave up. The thing is that FFDShow, especially Andy's version which is still the clear number one for really heavey use (like my 2040x204o with deNoise 3D), lives on real clock cycles, not the AMD equivalent. So a Pentium 4 overclocked to whatever you may get out of it (I'm using a Prescott 3.2 @ 3.9 right now) will run rings around anything AMD can hope to do. That was the short story. Look in the HTPC forum archives to get the long fight...

You sure those 500 + posts of yours aren't a bluff? :p Seriously, that was an extremely hot topic until maybe the middle of this winter, but the AMD fanboys sort of gave up. The thing is that FFDShow, especially Andy's version which is still the clear number one for really heavey use (like my 2040x204o with deNoise 3D), lives on real clock cycles, not the AMD equivalent. So a Pentium 4 overclocked to whatever you may get out of it (I'm using a Prescott 3.2 @ 3.9 right now) will run rings around anything AMD can hope to do. That was the short story. Look in the HTPC forum archives to get the long fight...

well, i can count on one hand how many times i've posted in htpc forum,
i've just recently bought theatertek and used ffdshow for the first time.
that's the reason for my ignorance on these issues. prior to this it has been windvd
all the way(due to my pentium3 400 machine)

now that i have a slightly better machine, i guess it's still not good enough to get all the bell and whistles that i want

running ffdshow,tt resizing to 1440x960 with slight jitters. most are barely perceptible but a few noticeable ones. but with my cpu running at under 50percent i wonder if it's the dvd that's at fault.

is there a list of dvds that are guaranteed to playback smoothly so i know it's the system/programs?

Have you tried ReClock?

I have never totally gotten rid of slight skipped frames (most noticeable in pans), but it's smooth 99% of the time.

unfortunately i get an angry red reclock icon in my taskbar ever since i upgraded to sp2. maybe i should try reinstalling it? reclock didn't require installation did it?
will check later.

There's no option to change </>?
If so, then you might try different user preset profiles (Default -> DVD & HD video) that you can switch back and forth.
Klick on the < to change it.

Greets Damdy

bosng, you can use a scene from just before the beginning of chapter 4 of the EE of Fellowship of the Ring. Gandalf's arriving at Bilbo's house, and before we see him going up to the front door, there's a pan that spans the whole of the valley. That should be very close to silky smooth, and it is on my system now. But 100 % smooth is probably impossible on a PC, that's only possible on a standalone DVD player, probably without any upscaling or other image processing. So it's really a balance: The picture is a looooot better looking with my HTPC than a standalone with a comparable price, so I don't mind that the pans aren't 100 % smooth, only 98 %.

thanks for the recommendation mastiff.

got another problem now. downloaded dscaler 4.1.11

checked deinterlacing
then checked dscaler plugin at the bottom of the right screen

highlighted dscaler under deinterlacing on the left
plugin--to dscaler directory
now i see all the .dll choices within dscaler
hit apply on all screens hit ok
restarted tt

tt crashes after trying to load lotr dvd
tt always crashes while loading dvds

start tt with no dvd in drive and turn off scaler
everything works again

am i choosing the wrong settings?
i've tried tt without starting dscaler first and also
started dscaler then tt

both ways makes tt crash when the dscaler option is turned on. :confused:

bosng,

If you are using Theater Tek, the nVidia codec should be more than enough for your deinterlacing needs. Why are you plugging in Dscaler as well?

The DScaler we all talk about, version 5.0.0.6, is an mpeg decoder (like nVidia, WinDVD, PowerDVD). You can't use it with TT, but you can with Zoom Player. Zoom Player lets you pick whatever audio and video codec you want to use, whereas TT forces you to use the nVidia codec.

ah, again my ignorance rears it's ugly head. thanks for clearing it up. i've read lots of posts about ffdshow and dscaler combo and didn't realize they weren't using tt.

i'm still a newbie when it comes to ffdshow and imagine i'll put my foot in my mouth a few more times.

all for getting a better image and playback. that's a small price to pay.

I am trying to get togather zoom professional - ffdshow - cyberlink player codeds. Zoom players registers codecs and filters fine but when i try to play dvd it gives error message--- Filter connection error -- cyberlink video out ---> ffdshow vidoe in .....

What am I doing wrong? PC has P4 1.3ghz with 384 RDRAM.

Is processor too weak to run ffdshow???

Yes, that 1.3ghz is too pokey for ffsdhow. For ZP, Nvidia, Dscaler and Elecard codecs are the proven ones w/ the best PQ. I'd personally stay away form any other codec.
For your problem, the power dvd codec may be too old.....

another possibility is that FFDshow has not been enabled for raw YV12 input

Hey guys,

I'm using FFDShow for decoding and filtering of 576i, MPEG2 content (both recorded MPEG's and live television).

I've tried various versions and builds but none of the FFDShow deinterlacers or avisynth scripts I add to it are giving me 50fps output. They appear to be grabbing one field and working from there. The result is jerky and well..ugly :p

The ONLY way I can get 50fps output is through the DScaler filters in FFDShow's deinterlace settings. The problem is that these are using far more CPU usage for some reason. (basic weave adds 30-40% on my Athlon 2500).

I've been using DScaler: Video (TomsMoComp) and results are fantastic, but leave no room for any further processing due to the amount of CPU it's taking up. Selecting the TomsMoComp filter in FFDShow uses far less CPU, but I am only getting 25fps output.

Is this happening to others? Would really love a fix :)

Windows XP SP2
FFDShow, Media Player Classic and DigitalWatch
Athlon XP 2500+
512mb DDR 400mhz RAM
GeForce4 ti4200

Has anyone had any issues in using the Andy Optimized version when playing back media files (MPEG4) rather than DVDs? I get an immediate crash unless I go into the FFDSHOW config and unclick ALL filters (both resize and blur/NR). THe media then plays fine. I've posted a longer explanation of what I have tried in the main forum, but thought it may be related to the build I am using.

Steve

I am using TT with FFDSHOW (Andy's August 1st).
If I choose VRM9 and resize to 1280 x 720, I got tearing on fast moving scenes. If I change video back to VRM7, there are no tearing at all. However, picture is not as sharp.
I am using P4 2.8C, in both cases, CPU usage is less than 30%. I tried zoom player + Dscaler + FFDSHOW and got the same results.
What causes the occasional tearing?

Have you enabled VMR9 renderless? I believe that you shouldn't be getting any tearing with renderless. I get tearing with VMR9 at the same resolutions as you have if I don't choose renderless.

Wayne

You mean exclusive renderless. You still get tearing with regular renderless. I tried TT a while ago (didn't like it much, but that's because I like the dScaler codec better, and I hate having no alternatives), and enabling exclusive renderless removes all tearing.

You mean exclusive renderless. You still get tearing with regular renderless. I tried TT a while ago (didn't like it much, but that's because I like the dScaler codec better, and I hate having no alternatives), and enabling exclusive renderless removes all tearing.

Ummm, what is "exclusive" renderless and does TT 2.1.1 offer "exclusive" renderless?

I have the proper box checked for renderless in TT - not sure about any exclusive mode, however.

Thanks. :D

Thanks!!! The exclusive + renderless solve the tearing problem in ZP. It feels like that the computer is dedicated to ZP in full screen exclusive mode since some windows functions such as right mouse click does not work anymore.
Not sure if TT offers renderless. Mine only have VRM 9 option. Maybe time to update.
Which ZP is the best for DVD? ZP? ZP pro? or ZP WMV pro?

In TheaterTek click on Video, Advanced Video, then Fullscreen mode to put it into renderless.

You should buy ZoomPlayer Pro for DVD usage.

Wayne

Exclusive renderless simply means that nothing else (except the mouse pointer, which will always work) is able to use the graphics card. And I think Wayne's right, I seem to remember that TT calls exclusive renderless Fullscreen mode, but it's the same thing.

I was not very satisfied with the picture quality (feel like not focused very well) until I turned on Sharpen (asharp). WOW, what a difference!

If you have a version with dScaler sharpen (not to be mistaken with the dScaler 5 DVD codec) that will be even better than asharp.

I have a problem that is different from the other green screen problems. Every once in a while I run across a dvd where the screen turns green but with multiple almost vertically interlaced looking picture (barely recognizable as the playing dvd). If I open another app that uses ffdshow andf play the dvd for about a second and quit and go back to ZP everything is fine. It is almost like ffdshow needs initializing. I am running nvidia dvd codecs and ZP 4.5 with ffdshow 0801 preview.

If you have a version with dScaler sharpen (not to be mistaken with the dScaler 5 DVD codec) that will be even better than asharp.

I could not find dScaler sharpen from Andy's 8-1-04 version. Is it an option under Sharpen?
Thanks!

No, it's under dScaler filters.

I did not see sharpen option inside dScaler filters. :confused:

You are using Andy's build, right? It should be under dScaler filters, if you don't see it in the listbox there just click on the button to the right and find a filter called FLT_Sharpness_sse2.dll in the FFDShow directory. It's Andy's hand coded (whatever that means...) version of the dScaler sharpness.

Thanks! I loaded the DLL, however my screen turned into green once I turned on DScaler sharpness. :mad: I will keep playing with the options to see if I can get it to work.

OK, I moved Dscaler filter after Resize and now it worked!
Blur&NR is before Resize. Now I have to play with the options to optimize the image :)

Thanks!

You're welcome. But you should have dScaler first, then DeNoise 3D and finally resize, processing a resized image kills the CPU. Check that the input and output colorspace in FFDShow, the output colorspace in your DVD decoder and the color space in Zoom Player all are set to YV12.

I have a Prob with FFDSHOW.
Can anybody who use Andys 20040801a preview SSE2 Version, take a look on the codec- Tab, behind Format mpeg2 at supported Fourccs/remarks. Is there any Information? I have "currently broken" at this point and want to now, is this a Prob with this Version ore with my Config.

Thanks in advance for your Reply.

Best regards Damdy

Edit: If anybody have a Tipp whats happend with this, I also give a big thanks ;)

I was playing LOTR 2 trailer and the picture is broken into horizonal lines especially at fast moving scenes. It almost feels like I can the the interlaced picture. However, the main movie does not show any of the horizontal lines. I was wondering if this is due that the trailer are made different from the main movie such frame rate etc.

If I use NVDVD v3+, I can get rid of the "interlaced" picture for the trailer, but not dScaler.

Damdy, I got the same thing as yours.

Dscaler has no deinterlacer thats why you see that during the trailer. Meanwhile NVDVD does the deinterlacing work so you dont get to see the "interlaced issue". You can try using a deinterlacer thru ffdshow
Regards

Great, just added the deinterlacing in ffdshow and problem solved. I played with the different options a little and did not find significant difference. So far I am using the 5-tap lowpass filter.
I guess most trailers are made of interlaced vs. the progressive in the film.

Thanks!

help!

i have no idea what i'm doing.

i have theatertek with ffdshow....

system is amd3500+, 1 gig ram, 7800gt video card.

i set up ffdshow using the guide on htpc news. i am having two problems:

1. my tv is a sony lcd which is native 720p. when i use 1344 x 752 i get no overscan with my dvd's....any other resolution i do. what am i doing wrong?

2. my cpu usage is at 100%. i know that there could be lots of things causing this, but any ideas to get me started? thanks.

I have been trying to get ffdshow to work with zp but I cannot find a good guide anywhere. The guide that I was using is not in english located here: hardware.no/artikkel/15836/1

I dl'ed the new ffdshow from Andy and currently trying to get it to work with ZP. When i load ZP to play a movie it just locks up and my Nvidia driver says render unknown. I'm using ZP Pro 4.51 and latest Nvidia drivers. Can anyone point me to a good guide or explain why my ZP locks up and is just a black screen? Thanks!

I have a leadtek 6600GT card Intel 2.8 CPU with 1gig memory. Using spdif output to my reciever.

If i dont include ffdshow in zp it plays dvd's fine.

In ffdshow click on 'codecs', then scroll down to the bottom and click on 'raw video' and then 'all supported'.

If that doesn't work or even if it does, :) try this link for a helpful guide:

http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=ffdshowdvd_1

Wayne

It still wont work :( Just is black and locks up. Here is what i have for zp settings:

Video Decoder
Nvidia NVDVD V3+

Audio Decoder
AC3Filter

Audio Renderer
Default DirectSound Device

Additional Filter
FFDShow RAW Video Processor

Video Rendere
I have currently Overlay Mixer

I have everything unchecked in ffdshow except i put Codecs to Raw Video and Decoder All supported.

Did you register all the filters? Take a look at htpcnews. It is a good guide.

I have had problems running Andy's versions of ffdshow. Freezing and errors. It turns out that I can't use them. I have to use the official build found on sourceforge.net. You may want to try uninstalling Andy's and installing another ffdshow version.

Wayne

I will try the other version but I dont understand why it would lock up right at the begining. When i double click on the little nvidia icon here are my settings:
Display Type: Content Default
Hardware acceleration unchecked
De Interlace control: automatic
Full Frame Video
Software Mode: YUY2
Undefined Renderer
De Interlace mode: Best Available
Enhanced nView Support: Prefer Overlay

I'm using the Decoder version 4.2.150


**I just tried the older ffdshow and it doesnt work I think something is getting screwed in the registering part? When I click on the Nvidia icon when playing the movie I get a undefined renderer and when i dont load ffdshow i get Video Overlay. So it looks like its not picking anything up when ffdshow is running?

I have been trying to get ffdshow to work with zp but I cannot find a good guide anywhere. The guide that I was using is not in english located here: hardware.no/artikkel/15836/1

I dl'ed the new ffdshow from Andy and currently trying to get it to work with ZP. When i load ZP to play a movie it just locks up and my Nvidia driver says render unknown. I'm using ZP Pro 4.51 and latest Nvidia drivers. Can anyone point me to a good guide or explain why my ZP locks up and is just a black screen? Thanks!

I was using an older celticdruid build of ffdshow with nVidia perfectly. Then I installed the latest celticdruid build (8/22 from http://www.aziendeassociate.it/cd.asp?dir=/ffdshow ) and now DVD resizing no longer works. I get a crash right away in ZP.

The only way I can get things to work again is to remove the NVIDIA Video Post Processor from my custom filter chain. Then everything works fine again. That's too bad, since I need the NV Post Processor to fix broken IVTC DVDs. I have these nVidia reg keys:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\NVIDIA Corporation\Filters\Video]
"PreferYV12"=dword:00000001
"DisableTrayIcon"=dword:00000000
"EnableDXVA"=dword:00000001
"DeinterlaceControl"=dword:00000000
"EnableVMR"=dword:00000002
"ForcePALConnection"=dword:00000000
"DVDRegion"=dword:00000001
"EnableFFDShow"=dword:00000001

Resizing also works fine with for instance RV10 decoding. It's only when the NVIDIA Video Post Processor is involved, that ffdshow crashes.

Do you know which version of ffdshow you were using when nvidia worked. I will dl that one and try it. So I cannot use nvidia dvd decoder then when using ffdshow is that correct or what is the nvidia post processor. Sorry I'm new to this stuff and still learning.

OK here is what happens now. I tried using your reg settings and here is what i get.

Overlay Mixer selected as zoom player video renderer
I get the following error:

Filter Connection Error:
[FFDShow Raw Video Processor].Out ---> [Overlay Mixer].Input0
Not all filter can connect properly......

Any of the VMR9 options selected as zoom player video renderer
I get the following error:
Unalbe to create the "Video Mixing Renderer 9" filter

Thanks

jradams: I was using ffdshow-20050122, when all was well.

Re your connection error, perhaps you should check the ZP forums. When I was configuring ZP with all custom filter settings, I found a lot of useful answers there.
http://forum.inmatrix.com/index.php?act=SC&c=2

I figured out what the above errors where I wasnt matching the nvidia settings with zp. I elminated those errors but now im back to where i was with zp not playing when ffdshow is enabled :( I guess I will just watch movies without. I'm going to get a new machine soon so i can try it on a clean slate.

The VMR 9 errors may be because you haven't done a clean install with a slipstreamed SP2. I have had a few weird things happening when using computers upgraded with SP2.

Upconverting-FDDshow

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been doing a lot of searching around today and I'm trying to learn about how my computer upconverts, how this works w/ Media Center, and additional programs needed.

Can someone just give me, in true laymans terms an explanation of all this? There is alot of jargon involved, and lot of this thread refers to much older versions of programs.

I am running @ 720p. I have a Hitachi LCD rear projection hooked up via dvi. using an nvidia gforce card.

When I pop in a DVD and it's displaying @ 720p, is the pc upconverting the signal like an upscaling dvd player?

why do i need fddshow? just to do additional tweaks? is this a standalone program and if so does it work in conjunction w/ mce05?

do i need to pay $30-50 for programs like theatertek or zoom player and if so, what are the added benefits over just using media center?

Sorry for sounding dumb in this post, but the more i learn the more confused i'm getting! just need some basic answers...trying to keep my system uncomplicated and am not worried about getting the absolute best out of it....just want it too look better than my standalone dvd player.....

If you play a DVD on your computer, and display it full-screen/maximize, that program and your video card is doing the scaling of the image to fill the desktop's resolution.

The advantage of using a program like ffdshow is that you can control the parameters of the upconversion, and thus have more control over how it looks. Selecting which scaling algorithm, adding a bit of sharpening, etc. Overall, ffdshow gives a better/sharper/clearer picture than just maximizing a standard DVD player window to fullscreen.

I am not sure how you would use ffdshow with MCE. I didn't like the lack of control over the video playback parameters. I have been using Zoom Player Pro for a while (I believe it's about $20 to register - without registration there is a 3-second wait and you have to press one of three buttons each time you launch it), with ffdshow and DScaler 5 / WinDVD 6 codecs plugged into that. I use that for DVDs. For regular media files, I use WMP/Real, etc., out of convenience.

One thing Zoom Player Pro gives you over MCE is a wealth of options and configurability, so you can control how it works, and even customize the keyboard/mouse shortcuts to program a remote to work with it (using a program like Girder). My computer is actually an HP MCE computer, and I use the supplied remote in conjunction with Girder to control ZP like a regular DVD player.

Thanks so much for that awesome reply! Although w/ every answer comes more questions!

So FFdshow is not a standalone app? it does need to be used in conjunction w/ something like zoom player?

Can you explain the whole codecs thing to me? how do i know where to find them, which ones i need etc. Thanks again!

Hi Cyberbri

I mostly use Zoom-player for dvd playback, but for all other media, I use windows media player-10 . But if I enable OSD in ffdshow(Andy's build), I can see resizing and CPU info on media playback with windows media player and inside MCE(which uses WMP) for .avi/.mpg/.wmv/.wmvHD/xvid files . Seems like WMP is using ffdshow codecs as video codec.

Considering that ffdshow cleans up video playback, that is a good thing, but it messes up my HD playback. Is there a easy way to let/or not let ffdshow interfere with WMP.

Sonisame

Thanks so much for that awesome reply! Although w/ every answer comes more questions!

So FFdshow is not a standalone app? it does need to be used in conjunction w/ something like zoom player?

Can you explain the whole codecs thing to me? how do i know where to find them, which ones i need etc. Thanks again!


FFDSHOW is a "collection of filters" for use with video playback - blur/denoise, sharpening, picture adjustments, scaling, etc.

Codecs are used to encode/decode compressed files. MP3, AAC, mpeg, avi, etc. are all file types that require a certain codec to decompress and play them back. For DVD playback, you need a video codec and an audio codec.

With Zoom Player, you can select which codecs you wish to use for audio and video separately, and add in ffdshow as an additional extra filter.

Many people like the nVidia codecs, which cost money (and are included in the price of Theater Tek - you can only use nVidia codecs with TT). DScaler 5.0.0.6 is a free codec for film DVDs (doesn't work well with video stuff like TV shows), is comparable in quality to the nVidia codecs, and is the codec of choice of many people here. It's also free. I believe you can download it from sourceforge.net - be sure you get "DScaler 5.0.0.6 mpeg codec" as there are other types of software programs that share the DScaler name. The WinDVD 6 codec came with my computer, and it does a very respectable job, so I use that sometimes, like when watching video material.


Basically this is the display chain:

DVD -> codec decompresses audio/video -> (optional -- ffdshow 'filters' video ->) video renderer (VMR9 or Overlay) -> video card -> display

FFDSHOW can be used with Zoom Player, Theater Tek, WMP, etc. -- although the most control over settings/adjustments will come with ZP/TT rather than WMP/MCE which are streamlined and simplified for ease of use at the expense of control.



Once you get everything running, you'll want to make sure your display is properly calibrated. When you're ready, check out my How-To sticky thread in my signature and at the top of this HTPC forum.

Hi Cyberbri

I mostly use Zoom-player for dvd playback, but for all other media, I use windows media player-10 . But if I enable OSD in ffdshow(Andy's build), I can see resizing and CPU info on media playback with windows media player and inside MCE(which uses WMP) for .avi/.mpg/.wmv/.wmvHD/xvid files . Seems like WMP is using ffdshow codecs as video codec.

Considering that ffdshow cleans up video playback, that is a good thing, but it messes up my HD playback. Is there a easy way to let/or not let ffdshow interfere with WMP.

Sonisame


I have also seen that happen on my setup. I was able to tell ffdshow video to only work with raw video (DVDs) by disabling the support for all the other formats, so it doesn't come up on HD mpg files, etc. I think by doing that, it reverts to the next video codec on the list (you'll need a codec/filter manager to prioritize which ones are used, etc.)


However the ffdshow audio filter has stuck to my WMP10 (go Tools -> Options -> DVD -> Advanced button to see which audio filter it's using), so I sometimes have to change settings to get audio to work correctly on the different WMV-HD trailer files.

Thanks Cyberbri
After installing DirectShow filter manager and changing merits of codecs, I have success in using proper decoders/codecs for all applications.
This manager is a must have on HTPC.


Sonisame

also the sourceforge HTPC- Frond-End Mediaportal http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net/index.html supports FFDSHOW for DVD and DVB and have the DScaler 5 Settings too. It is not so big as ZoomPlayer but for me it works very- well.

Maybe someone will take a try...


regards Damdy

Can some body explain to me what exactly the Avisynth is for, in FFDshow?

Can we use it to enhance a video, just like the other filters?

Or, all it does is play an Avisynth script?

If what all it does is, play an Avisyth script, what is the difference if I just open the script , directly, from a folder?

Let's say, for example,I want to flip the video horizontaly.
Should I write a script:FlipHorizontal(AviSource("C:\My movies\mymovie.avi")), save it as AVS and open it, or I can flip the video horizontaly, directly, from FFDshow?

If it can be done directly from FFDshow, can you please post a sample on how it is done?

also the sourceforge HTPC- Frond-End Mediaportal http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net/index.html supports FFDSHOW for DVD and DVB and have the DScaler 5 Settings too. It is not so big as ZoomPlayer but for me it works very- well.

Maybe someone will take a try...


regards Damdy

AFter fiddling with it for a while,it finally worked. I did notive that Dscaler is better than my powerdvd 5, it seems to have deeper colour. My problem is that I cannot get it to do in the right aspect ratio. Round ojects appear to be a little out of round. I have not done any other options yet, but it seems it scan my HD , but did not pick up all my music or movie files. Anyway, something new to play with when I have not much else to do.

AFter fiddling with it for a while,it finally worked. I did notive that Dscaler is better than my powerdvd 5, it seems to have deeper colour. My problem is that I cannot get it to do in the right aspect ratio. Round ojects appear to be a little out of round. I have not done any other options yet, but it seems it scan my HD , but did not pick up all my music or movie files. Anyway, something new to play with when I have not much else to do.

In MediaPortal you can rotate between the different Aspect- Ratios by typing the key "s". You can see all the keys that use by MP in the Config- Menü, also there is a wiki of all the Functions from MP.

btw: There is a Tearing-Test include by typing the "!" for one and off, thats not in the wiki.

Regards Damdy

I have yet to set up FFDShow, but I have a quick question before I do. I have a native 480p (Mits HC100u) pj. Should I still resize to 1440x960 like the guide on the first page suggests? To me, it would seem pointless as my pj would have to re-scale back down to 720x480. BTW, I am using ZP and DScaler 5, if that needs to be known. Thanks!

I have yet to set up FFDShow, but I have a quick question before I do. I have a native 480p (Mits HC100u) pj. Should I still resize to 1440x960 like the guide on the first page suggests? To me, it would seem pointless as my pj would have to re-scale back down to 720x480. BTW, I am using ZP and DScaler 5, if that needs to be known. Thanks!

Good question. I too have a native 480p PJ (Infocus 4805) and had the same question some months ago.

Mastiff (AVS veteran) told me to resize as high as possible - whatever the CPU can handle. So I resize @ 3x.

We'll see if others concur. Good luck.

I might be wrong, but since you're already at native DVD resolution, I don't see much point in resizing up and then down again.

When you resize that high are you able to also use any filters like Gradual Denoise/Denoise 3D without stuttering? Also, at that high a resize, does your fan kick in to high gear and pretty much stay that way or does it cycle on high for quite a while then quieten down to low for a very short while and then up again?

Wayne

What am i doing wrong. I downloaded FFDShow and use winamp. I play MPEG-2s and set all the settings correctly. But.... nothing effects the video. Can somebody help?

Itlnstln, the projector shouldn't scale down, that should be done in your graphics card. Resize as high as you can do with the filters and method you choose, then output your native resolution, with PowerStrip if necessary, that will give you the best picture.

Goi, I disagree. I see a clear difference when I ffdshow resize to 1600x1600 and 2048x2048, and I'm using 1158x864 output to my Barco.

Davyboy, Winamp? I have never even heard about anybody trying to play ffdshow with that! You need to get yourself a better player, like Zoom Player.

HI
ffdshow mpeg4 decoder keeps on reseting its priority over other codecs like xvid mpeg4 decoder for playback of xvid or avi files using WM-player . Is there a bug or its intentionally done, I am using Andy's built for ffdshow.
Sonisame

Mastiff:

Regardless whether the pj scales or the video card scales, a 720x480 image is scaled up to another resolution, processed and scaled back down to 720x480. While not arguing about the results (since it seems to improve picture quality for many folks), it simply seems illogical in that data has to be "added" (interpolated) to create the higher resoultion, processed by various filters, then the "added" data be "taken out" to bring the picture back to 720x480. Just curious if my thought process is incorrect. Thanks!

-Don

Unless you are outputting a straight 720x480 resolution from the computer/desktop, so no scaling is involved.

And the whole point of scaling up then down again is to smooth out and sharpen up the picture, bring out details (make them more visible). How much of an improvement you get on an ED display, I don't know. The people who really benefit from this, though are ones with HD sets, because they can use better scaling algorithms and filters than those found in the TV (when going from a regular DVD player) - plus you get to use a digital connection and not have the digital -> analog -> digital conversion process.

Try different resize sizes and algorithms (ie., Lanczos 2 versus 4) with a small amount of sharpening (ie., Luma Sharpen w/in resize @ .30-.60). Using VMR9, you can take screenshots - taking the same exact full-sreen frame with different settings, you can then cycle through multiple settings and see how much sharper/cleaner your picture is, etc. This is what I did with a number of scenes (diagonal lines for smoothness, etc. - like Star Wars, wrapping cable around Walker's legs) before I settled on Lanczos 2 and Luma Sharpen at about .30-.40.

Mastiff, well in your case your projector's resolution is higher than DVD resolution, so some scaling would have to be done anyway. In his case however, his projector resolution is exactly DVD resolution, so I don't see the point. I agree with Itlnstln in this case.

...so I don't see the point.


"Seeing" is the point, Goi.
Rather than going with what one person or another says, it's best to try different options and see what looks best to one's eyes. Upconverting and then downconverting on one ED setup may not show an improvement in PQ, but it might show considerable improvement in another (and it may depend on the source/DVD/scene/shot how much of an improvement is found).

When you resize that high are you able to also use any filters like Gradual Denoise/Denoise 3D without stuttering? Also, at that high a resize, does your fan kick in to high gear and pretty much stay that way or does it cycle on high for quite a while then quieten down to low for a very short while and then up again?

Wayne

Hey Wayne,

I use resize 3x (Bicubic default - I know the consensus seems to be Lanczos but I get too much ringing. I love the way Bicubic looks), slight luma sharpen, slight denoise 3d, and slight msharpen. Fan never kicks into high. Absolutely no stuttering. Fantastic PQ. :D

What's your system like therealgeno?

Nothing special - 3.0, P4, gig RAM, TT 2.1.1, x700 pro pixel/bit-mapped to a 4805.

Hmmn, just as I thought. It seems that P4s are a lot better at ffdshow than A64s are.

what are all the capable players? I dont like zoom player very much. I prefer something like winamp, but it doesnt work. Thanks

Geno,

Thanks. My set up is similar to yours except that I'm using the Nvidia 6600GT overclocked card. I can't go higher than 1440 x 960 and Gradual Denoise without the fan revving up to high and pretty much staying there. So, I'm not going to go beyond that. It's a great picture and I'm happy. You're ATI card is 256mb isn't it? I'll bet that's the difference right there. Mine's 128mb.

Wayne

Hmmn, just as I thought. It seems that P4s are a lot better at ffdshow than A64s are.
Thats not true man my A64 (754) does 3x resize and LimitedSharpen plus denoise3d and will even run smooth if I added another filter like unsharp (just to test my CPU). Trust me, LimitedSharpen aint like other sharpeners...it really needs some CPU muscle. The thing with ffdshow is you must know what order to use for the filters AND prevent any yuv12 to yuy12 type of conversions.

As far as best player...my main one is TheaterTek. Pricey but very very good.

Well I use denoise3d before resize and even 2X is struggling sometimes, depending on the media. I've set the output to YV12 wherever I can and I use VMR9, yet my A64 running at 2.45GHz with 1GB memory and a 6800GT can't handle it.

Thats not true man my A64 (754) does 3x resize and LimitedSharpen plus denoise3d and will even run smooth if I added another filter like unsharp (just to test my CPU). Trust me, LimitedSharpen aint like other sharpeners...it really needs some CPU muscle. The thing with ffdshow is you must know what order to use for the filters AND prevent any yuv12 to yuy12 type of conversions.

As far as best player...my main one is TheaterTek. Pricey but very very good.

I used AMD64 3200+ oc to 2.5GHz. I use Andy's build, fast denoise3d, 2.8x resize, Lanczos 2, luma sharpen 0.4. I use Dell 24" LCD monitor with DVI input. The cpu usage is under 60%. Considering that it is at 2.8x resize, I think the AMD64+ is doing ok.

I have a little problem though. I cannot do fast forward or backward higher than 4x, (watching LOR, Fellowship), but it depends on what dvd I am watching, since there are others that be allow me to ff at 8x.

This is my setup:
Athlon64 3400 Newcastle LBAZC 0451 @ 2654.43 Mhz | prime95 8 Hrs/stable | Stock Heat Sink | DFI LP NF3 250GB Bios 10/15 Oskar | 1GBMB Patriot PC3200 XBL (TCCD)(1:1) | X-Navigator Case with Included ATX-AS500W PS | Audigy 2 original | eVGA 6600GT Driver 77.77 | 200GB Seagate 7200 | 40 GB Western Digital 7200 | 80GB Samsung 7200 | 3D Glasses | BenQ 1625 Litghtscribe DVD burner.
I think is obvious that while my CPU is faster you have a faster Video Card so if I am able to resize to 3x with LimitedSharpen (which is very heavy) you should be able to run much better than what you are doing. Heck, I am able to run 4x if I use unsharp! My point, forget about Hardware problems and concentrate in your soft config cause there lies the problem.
Regards

Hmm - my pc:
Mobile Athlon @2Ghz, 256MB PC2700 RAM, nVidia 6600GT.
Software - ZP/TheaterTek, nVidia video/audio codecs.

Projector is Panasonic AE700 - i have no problems on this PC with one of latest Celtic Druid ffdshow builds doing denoise3d + Lancos2 Resize 2x resolution (luma sharpen 0.5) for DVDs.

WHVHD discs play fine too - only problem is studders with HDTV playback on 6600GT (20% CPU usage only).
HDTV plays fine if i replace 6600GT with Radeon 9800Pro - this week i'm going to solve that mystery...

This is my setup:
Athlon64 3400 Newcastle LBAZC 0451 @ 2654.43 Mhz | prime95 8 Hrs/stable | Stock Heat Sink | DFI LP NF3 250GB Bios 10/15 Oskar | 1GBMB Patriot PC3200 XBL (TCCD)(1:1) | X-Navigator Case with Included ATX-AS500W PS | Audigy 2 original | eVGA 6600GT Driver 77.77 | 200GB Seagate 7200 | 40 GB Western Digital 7200 | 80GB Samsung 7200 | 3D Glasses | BenQ 1625 Litghtscribe DVD burner.
I think is obvious that while my CPU is faster you have a faster Video Card so if I am able to resize to 3x with LimitedSharpen (which is very heavy) you should be able to run much better than what you are doing. Heck, I am able to run 4x if I use unsharp! My point, forget about Hardware problems and concentrate in your soft config cause there lies the problem.
Regards

What is your Lanczos and luma settings, and what is your typical CPU usage while playing a DVD? I found that CPU usage goes up with resize, and I am not alloeing it to go over 60% so that I can leave some head room.

BTW, you have better ram that can run 1:1 giving you better bandwidth. I have the cheap UTT stuff that I cannot overclock much altho badwidth is decent, but certainly not as good as 1:1.

I can use Lanczos 3 at 3x or Lan4 at 2.5x but I normally use Lanczos 2 and not luma sharpenning as I believe Limited Sharpen is "smarter" and less likely to cause ringing, halos etc. I used to run 1.20 luma but have been tweaking my display and now it looks less digital yet detailed. I dont check CPU utilization, if I see one single hiccup I retweak.
Regards

Can TheaterTek play MPEG-2 files?

Geno,

Thanks. My set up is similar to yours except that I'm using the Nvidia 6600GT overclocked card. I can't go higher than 1440 x 960 and Gradual Denoise without the fan revving up to high and pretty much staying there. So, I'm not going to go beyond that. It's a great picture and I'm happy. You're ATI card is 256mb isn't it? I'll bet that's the difference right there. Mine's 128mb.

Wayne

Affirmative. And to be honest, I can't really tell the difference btw 2x and 3x resize, but the word seems to be go as high as you can.

FWIW, I use Bicubic default 3x resize; luma sharpen .4; msharpen 15,15; denoise3d .5, .5, t=5.

Every time I play around with the settings, I always go back to these. Personal preference I guess.

Oh, and I use TT 2.1.1, vmr9 renderless, pixel/bit mapped to a 4805.

This is very interesting btw - that some can do 2x and some can do 3x. Is it the processor or video card or both? I was thinking of swapping my x700 pro for that Nvidia 6600 GT that you have. The rumor is that the 6600 GT with TT 2.1.1 vmr9 renderless eliminates the need for ffdshow...............

What is the order of your filters? I have blur/NR before resize and already I'm unable to do beyond 2X.

Also, are you able to do more than 2X with non-DVD media such as xvid/divx videos?

The rumor is that the 6600 GT with TT 2.1.1 vmr9 renderless eliminates the need for ffdshow
Sorry but that doesn't make sense...what does one has to do with the other? Please explain... I am using renderless and forcing fullscreen with TT and still ffdshow is need but the good thing is that forcing Fullscreen under TT lowers the CPU load sustantially.
Regards

Affirmative. And to be honest, I can't really tell the difference btw 2x and 3x resize, but the word seems to be go as high as you can...

This is very interesting btw - that some can do 2x and some can do 3x. Is it the processor or video card or both? I was thinking of swapping my x700 pro for that Nvidia 6600 GT that you have. The rumor is that the 6600 GT with TT 2.1.1 vmr9 renderless eliminates the need for ffdshow...............

I find this fascinating as well. I don't understand very much of any of this stuff. I just read the threads and guides and try to observe any differences between the filters and the codecs but I've found that what most people seem to be using is fine by me. I use TheaterTek and I'm testing ZoomPlayer but TheaterTek works better with my cordless mouse which I operate from my couch.

Geno, that X700 Pro that you have is a mighty fine card. I tried it earlier this year and I really liked it but I couldn't stand the noise coming from the fan. It was more than just a fan noise, it was a gear like noise in addition to the fan which was very annoying and could be heard from 12 or more feet away even with the audio system on. I had read reviews online that the fan on this card is noisy and at least for me it turned out to be true.

Anyway, I had a GeForce PCX 5300 PCI-E card that came with my Medion computer but I just bought the BFG 6600GT OC at a huge discount which I couldn't pass up. I was getting intermittent stuttering on my previous card but with this 6600, it's super powerful and I can load up lots of ffdshow filters. The only complaint that I have is that the more I load, the higher and more consistent that fan is. I'll probably just stay with 1280 x 720 resize, Lanczos 4, Luma 1, Gradual Denoise 18 or Denoise 3D .5, .5. 5. and I also like to have Levels in there @ 16 and 235 input. This gives me a beautiful image with VMR9 rendering exclusive fullscreen.

So you say that with my card I may not need ffdshow?? Very interesting. What should I do, enable NVPP (Nvidia post processing) in TT and disable ffdshow to see how it looks?

Wayne

Lets make some things clear:

#1 ffdshow is a completely different animal than VMR so using one doesnt mean you dont need the other one. While renderless looks better I still use ffdshow to tweak my image even more.
#2 If you have a 6600GT and wont be using ffdshow then DO NOT enable NVPP cause then you wont be using the card's hardware features. If you want to use the pure video feature then do not use the either filter and check the use DXVA option. If you use SP2 you should check the full screen and yuv mixing also or if use SP1 try forcing it thru regedit as I do and works very nicely.
Regards

So you say that with my card I may not need ffdshow?? Very interesting. What should I do, enable NVPP (Nvidia post processing) in TT and disable ffdshow to see how it looks?

Wayne

I remember when TT 2.1.1 was released finally with the ability to go renderless that many folks reported that enabling DXVA with the Nvidia cards was enough to finally abandon the use of ffdshow. To be honest, I'm not sure how that exaclty panned out and if people finally went back to ffdshow. This was back when 2.1.1 was first released, and since I was an ATI user, I kinda quit paying attention. I'm sure you can find some info in the old TT threads here or on TT webpage.

Try enabling DXVA (which automatically disables ffdshow) and see if it is sharp enough. But something tells me that ffdshow will still add that extra "kick"; besides, I like the denoise option.

I appreciate the info on the ATI and NVidia cards - the fan (knock on wood) has not bothered me the least. I'll probably stick with it till it craps out on me ;) .

I think you are mixing up various things and thats where the confussion started. You talk about VMR, DXVA, ffdshow as if they were all the same thing or closely related. You dont need DXVA to do renderless fullscreen exclusive. DXVA is there to "activate" the 6600 GT's pure video features (3:2 pulldown, deinterlacer, etc). You CAN have ffdshow and VMR9 together but not ffdshow and DXVA as using ffdshow will automatically disable DXVA.

DXVA (DirectX VA)= support for hardware video accelerations
What is DXVA?
A: DXVA (DirectX VA) is the new Microsoft standard API for accelerating video rendering under DirectShow. Some display adapters provide hardware that can accelerate MPEG2 video playback either through Motion Compensation or through advanced iDCT (inverse discrete cosine transforms) for better video playback performance. Prior to DXVA, each display adapter company had their own unique and proprietary interface for accessing these hardware capabilities to the decoder.

DXVA now eliminates the need for these proprietary interfaces. DXVA is the new API that connects the video decoder to the display driver and is only available under DirectShow. DVD players and video decoders that do not use DirectShow by default cannot take advantage of DXVA. DXVA debuted with DirectX version 8.0 and is required by WHQL (Windows Hardware Quality Labs) on Windows XP. The CineMaster DS video decoder is completely 100% DXVA compliant and is certified by Microsoft's WHQL.

VMR9
Stands for "Video Mixing Renderer 9." A different version called VMR7 exists, but it generally failed to impress. The "9" comes from DirectX 9.

This is an alternative to the overlay, which has been around for years. VMR9 works closely with 3D graphics cards and allows video to easily be treated like a texture on a 3D surface. This provides the advantages of the overlay with multiple images/videos or on multiple displays simultaneously.

VMR9 isn't widely used yet, compared to the overlay, and the quality of the resulting video (e.g. when playing a DVD) may depend more on the particular 3D capabilities and idiosyncracies of the graphics card. Usage may pick up when the new DirectX 9.0c comes out with Windows XP Service Pack 2. Right now, many people have problems with tearing in the video when using VMR9, though some put up with it for what they feel is better picture quality.

If you want to use VMR9, you'll have best results if your graphics card is advertised as a DirectX 9 accelerator or something similar.

Regards

Is there a list on the internet that has all the compatible players with ffdshow? I have zoom player now but i dont like it and want to use something else. Your help is appriciated, thanks.

Geno and Luis,

Thanks for your informative posts. :) Very interesting. I'm experimenting right now and will decide soon on which way I want to configure TT.

Sometimes I get tempted to just watch everything through my Oppo. :o

Wayne

Luis

I have no idea how you have interpreted what I have said into what you think I have said. The only thing I have said to mystery was that TT 2.1.1 in renderless exclusive mode with NVidia cards with DXVA enabled may possibly be sharp enough - hence no ffdshow. I know that some people were experimenting with this. I have never said that you need DXVA to use exclusive mode. I do not use DXVA in renderless - I use ffdshow obviously.

I have compared when I was testing TT 2 (went back to Zoom Player and the dScaler filters pretty soon), and without FFDShow the image looked rather dull on my system. With it I was back to where it should be. Renderless fullscreen exclusive doesn't in any way remove the need for FFDShow if you have a display device that can show the difference.

therealgeno, what do you use to show the movies on? I see a clear difference between different resizes on my CRT projector.

What order are you guys running the filters on? I'm unable to get beyond 2X with denoise3d followed by 2X lanczos2 resize.

If you're using Andy's version you should first have either levels or dScaler sharpen, then deNoise and finally resize. I don't know about other versions, but it's worth a shot.

Well looks like I'm doing the right thing then, though I don't have levels(what does that do?). I'm using the latest Celtic Druid MSCV7.1 build though.

Unless you are outputting directly into YV12, as in with DScaler 5, you will need some sort of filter before resize. If it's not in YV12, it's in YUY2. But resize works in YV12, so you must have something like Unsharp Mask @ 1 or something to make sure resize is working in YV12. Then you set the output to YV12 only (uncheck other boxes) in ffdshow.

Well I have denoise3d before resize. I've noticed that if I uncheck denoise3d, it becomes a lot slower, with noticable stuttering. I guess this is because of the conversion?

Actually, is there any kind of documentation for all this YV12/YUY2/etc colorspace? I'm kinda confused since there's so many of them.

Hi Goi,

Avisynth org has a good technical explanation of the different colourspaces. Somehow I can’t write any external links but go to \ColorSpaces at Avisynths homepage.

Some say they get a better colour balance and less washed out colours with YUY2 colourspace, but the drawback is that is needs a bit more CPU power than YVV12 since it has less clever algorithms for storing and getting out data.

I have compared when I was testing TT 2 (went back to Zoom Player and the dScaler filters pretty soon), and without FFDShow the image looked rather dull on my system. With it I was back to where it should be. Renderless fullscreen exclusive doesn't in any way remove the need for FFDShow if you have a display device that can show the difference.

therealgeno, what do you use to show the movies on? I see a clear difference between different resizes on my CRT projector.

Hey Mastiff,

I know what you are saying, but I distinctly remember people saying that NVidia cards with DXVA enabled was sharp enough without ffdshow when TT 2.1.1 was first released. At first, 2.1 in renderless exclusivne had some flaws including an extra blurred, dull image. But upon the 2.1.1 release, which fixed the sharpness issue, several reported no need for ffdshow with NVidia and DXVA. I'm not saying that is true, but that was the word on the TT threads.

I use a 4805 to show movies on, and as I'm sure you know, it's only a 480p display, which is most likely the reason I don't see a huge difference in the resizes. But I still do what you say - to go as high as possible, hence the 3x resize. I'm sure on your display the differences are obvious - and rewarding :D .

What is the order of your filters? I have blur/NR before resize and already I'm unable to do beyond 2X.

Also, are you able to do more than 2X with non-DVD media such as xvid/divx videos?

Sorry I did not respond, somehow I passed your post up. I have blur/NR first, then sharpen (msharpen), then resize, and lastly outputted to YV12 of course.

I've never had a problem with any of the resizes or filters - maybe it is your ffdshow build.

BTW, I was first using NVPP along with ffdshow until some research in the forum warned against NVPP. I had some problems with stuttering when using both. But once I dropped NVPP, smooth sailing.

I have a 4805 too and the difference when using resize is obvious but of course not as big as it will be for someone with a 1080 capable display.
Regards

Is FFDShow the only one of it's kind? I like it and i use it for the bitmap overlay feature and some other things, but are there other programs out there that can do the same thing as this one? Also, I am currently using zoom player to use as playback. I dont like it very much and want to switch to something else. I like Winamp a lot because of the control features. Somebody said theatertek but i wasnt sure if it was compatible playing with MPEG-2 files, it looked like it could only play DVDs. Your help is greatly appriciated. Thank You.

MPC is another popular player. Basically any DirectShow player would do AFAIK.

geno thanks for replying. I've tried several ffdshow builds so I don't think it's a build problem. Are you able to do more than 2x with non-DVD media such as xvid/divx videos?

MPC is another popular player. Basically any DirectShow player would do AFAIK.

geno thanks for replying. I've tried several ffdshow builds so I don't think it's a build problem. Are you able to do more than 2x with non-DVD media such as xvid/divx videos?

Yes, I have been testing MediaPlayer for the past 2 weeks. It seems to be a pretty good pc front end for hptc and can run ffdshow with dscaler 5. This means it is completely free, and you don't have to buy any front end software, or dvdplayer. So, if I am starting a htpc now, I would use MP alone without having to buy ZP or TT or Powerdvd, or windvd, or nvidia dvd. MP is quite easy to configure and I can even use my wireless game pad to control the dvd playback. I highly recommend this free software.

geno thanks for replying. I've tried several ffdshow builds so I don't think it's a build problem. Are you able to do more than 2x with non-DVD media such as xvid/divx videos?

I only use my HTPC for DVD material - sorry to be of no help there.

Yes, I have been testing MediaPlayer for the past 2 weeks.

Have you a url to that, or did you mean MediaPortal?

Regards Damdy

Have you a url to that, or did you mean MediaPortal?

Regards Damdy

I think he is refering to "Media Player Classic" - google and you will find it.

Have you a url to that, or did you mean MediaPortal?

Regards Damdy

My apologies. It is MediaPortal.
http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net/index.html

It has audio/video codec by Media Player Classic, hence my confusion.

I am happy with it, but still trying to configure it for my logitec game pad.

Is it possible to have separate builds of FFDshow active on the same computer? If so how would I configure it? Thanks

I asked this in a seperate thread, but thought I could try here too.

Is there a way of either only letting ffdshow work with DVDs, or to not auto launch. I only want it to work with TTDVD2. I can run it with a switch. But don't want it running when I am using other players.

Cheers

moshmothma, I think the answer to that is no. At least I have never seen any way of doing it.

Wilsonj, it should be possible by using reg files. Fire a regfile with FFFDShow Raw video enabled as a part of a batchfile or script when you start TT, and one that disables Raw video when you exit TT.

Hi Mastiff,

Thanks, but you assure I know more than I do! :) Any clues on how this is done??

Open Regedit and find [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\GNU\ffdshow]. Export that thread, first with the Raw video options in FFDShow set to disabled, and then with them set to enabled. Then you can import the one where they are set to enabled when you want to use FFDShow, and you can import the other one when you don't want to use it. Oh, and remember that if you ever change anything, like resize, sharpness, whatever, you must export a new FFFDShow enabled regfile, or you'll be back to your old settings.

Hi,

What ffdshow version do you guys recommend for an AMD Athlon64 X2 3800+ CPU? I have tried Andy’s 20040801-build. With YV12 colorspace it just crash, and with YUY2 it only shows a green screen. Other builds work, but misses some optimalisation with the Athlon64. None of the versions I have tried uses both of the cores and I cant squeeze the resize-thing to more than 1400*1400 before I get massive frame-drops.

OK thanks Mastiff I'll give that a shot!

Cheers
Jamie

Ringnes, I recommend P4 no matter what, so I won't help you there. Just like I recommend Grolsch or Heineken, or even Grans, instead of...you know what! ;) But seriously the crash and colorspace problems may be a configuration error. Have you read my article about FFDShow on http://www.hardware.no/guider ? Part 7 is about FFFDShow.

Hi Mastiff,

I have read your excellent article, yes. I'm using about the same configuration in ffdshow as described. What’s more, Andy’s 20040709-buildt works fine, though inefficient. The newest, 20040801 preview-build crashes as described above.

I find all the different ffdshow versions available a bit confusing. The newest release at sourceforge.net is a year old, but new beta-versions are released every day on other sites. Some of the releases seems to make more bugs than they fix too..

Most of those releases are made for other things than we use it for. They're for speeding up XViD, DiVX and other weird formats that really have no place in a serious home theater. Basically they're for the pirate file sharers. I'm afraid I know little about AMD 64's, but maybe somebody else here has got Andy's build working on that? You could also ask in the main forum, just have a good descriptive header, like "Problem with FFDShow on AMD 64 - Please help", or something.

Ringnes,

What media player are you using? On Theatertek I had to turn off YUV mixing or else I got a green screen when using full screen mode.

I am using the 20050703 version of ffdshow from here: http://m17n.cool.ne.jp/freeware/mpc/ .

I have an Athlon64 Newcastle 3000+ and it works fine. Is your Codecs in ffdshow only checked for raw video and set to YV12? Is your Output in ffdshow set to only YV12? I use Resize - Lanczos2 3x, dnoise3d, and Dscaler sharpness filter. I only use about 30% of my CPU's processing power.

Michael

Ringnes,

What media player are you using? On Theatertek I had to turn off YUV mixing or else I got a green screen when using full screen mode.

I am using the 20050703 version of ffdshow from here: http://m17n.cool.ne.jp/freeware/mpc/ .

I have an Athlon64 Newcastle 3000+ and it works fine. Is your Codecs in ffdshow only checked for raw video and set to YV12? Is your Output in ffdshow set to only YV12? I use Resize - Lanczos2 3x, dnoise3d, and Dscaler sharpness filter. I only use about 30% of my CPU's processing power.

Michael


Only 30%? I am having similiar problems as the people above. Anything over 2x resize I get 100% CPU use and stutter. At 2x resize I get 80% usage, this is with no other settings. YV12 as output and RAW Video - ALL ENABLED. All on a brand new install. Tried dozen versions of FFDShow, all with same cpu usage.

I have yet to have someone give an answer, only others saying they have the same problem. Then there are those like you who have no problem!

RAW Video - ALL ENABLED.

Try RAW Video - YV12 only. I also found that using an even resize (2x or 3x) used less processing power than 2.5x or 1920x1080.

To test my CPU usage I press Windows Key + r for the run command line and type perfmon. I delete the first two counters at the bottom so that only % Processor Time is running. Then I open Theatertek and watch a portion of movie for a few minutes with my settings. I close Theatertek and maximize perfmon and view the graph for the % Processor Time while I was watching the movie.

I wonder if ffdshow and processor usage is also dependant on the media player. I use Theatertek 2.1 in renderless VMR9 mode. I used to have an Athlon XP1600 and was able to use gradual denoise, 2x Lanczos2 resize, & sharpen. My processor was at about 95% usage but would spike to 100% depending on the movies. With some movies I couldn't use either gradual denoise or sharpen without dropping frames.

Will try the Raw - YV12, I don't remember that being an option. I had these identical settings on a P4 2.8c and it was flawless!

I think VMR9 uses the video card hardware, while Overlay uses software (CPU), IIRC.

Aruably, VMR9 also gives a better picture, so you will probably want to use this (if you're not already). Zoom Player with VMR9 Renderless (w/ Exclusive box checked) or TT (same).

I think my CPU % is about 30% or so, on my 2.8GHz 512RAM and nVidia 5200 Ultra card, resizing to 1440x1200, Lanczos 2, Luma Sharpen @.30.

The resize algorithm can also have a big effect on CPU usage - not just resolution. Lanczos 4 uses more CPU without much PQ improvement (arguably a slight degradation), so backing down to Lanczos 2 might help ease CPU usage.


FWIW

Is there an English version of Mastiff's guide? I'm also getting CPU utilization problems, some DVDs are hit worse than others, but most of the time I'm able to get 2X Lanczos2 resize and denoise3d, though CPU utilization is like 80% or so. I also have YV12 in both ZP and ffdshow, and I use Dscaler video decoder.

I'm using Zoom Player with VMR9 Renderless, dScaler5006, ffdshow and Reclock. The CPU usage is between 70-80 % even before setting ANY resize in ffdshow. And that is on the core that handles ffdshow. CPU usage on the second core (mostly used by Reclock) is 20-30 %. This is on a Atlhon64 X2 3800+. I use "AMD Power monitor" to monitor the CPU usage.

Is there any way to check if ffdshow actually take use of SSE and SSE2?

Reading all the problems here just remainds me on how different even very similiar PCs behave. My ffdshow (Andy's preview I believe) runs smooth using very intense settings like 2.5 x resize with Limited Sharpen and denoise3d...anyone that knows LimitedSharpen knows how CPU killer it is.
Right now I am doing 3.5 x resize with warpsharp and unsharp but no denoise since I noticed the trade for cleaning is detail that I really need for a 9' wide screen.
Regards

Reading all the problems here just remainds me on how different even very similiar PCs behave. My ffdshow (Andy's preview I believe) runs smooth using very intense settings like 2.5 x resize with Limited Sharpen and denoise3d...anyone that knows LimitedSharpen knows how CPU killer it is.
Right now I am doing 3.5 x resize with warpsharp and unsharp but no denoise since I noticed the trade for cleaning is detail that I really need for a 9' wide screen.
Regards


There has to be some type of correlation here. Everyone that has problems has a AMD, I have not seen anyone with issues that had a P4. There has to be something related here, driver, motherboard or something.