First what is it?

Ffdshow is a filter used with your DVD, Mpeg2, Mpeg1 and most Mpeg4 codec’s. Ffdshow allows you to make changes to the video stream real-time digitally, like sharpening and denoising. It’s sort of like digitally enhancing the video, to perfectly match your system, while playing it back, real time.

Is my system fast enough to use ffdshow???

That depends, how you use ffdshow, will determine whether you can use it, with your processor or not. If you have a system with a 1.2 GHz or above you can give it a try and see how it works out.

OK were do I get it and how do I install it???

Go here --- http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=53761

I recommend using the one dated 2002-12-11

Its easy to install just click and follow the onscreen instructions.

Now how do I get it to work with Zoomplayer???

You need to create a graph or find one on this sight using the search function.

------ If someone would donate the space online I could give them my graphs I have to host. I have one for nvdvd, windvd, and sonic. -----

For the Sonic filters you need to add a Dword registry entry ALLOWALLRENDERERS with a value of 1 to the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Sonic\CineMaster DS DVD\2.5\VideoDecoder registry directory

Also befor it will work you need to go to your start menu->programs->ffdhow->configuration and choose Codecs under the Left hand tool bar. When you click on the Codecs option a screen wil populate on the left hand side with listing under ( Supported codecs) and ( Supported output colorspaces)

Supported Codecs -- Unselect everything except Raw video

Support output colorspaces --- select everthing

All those settings, what to do, what to do???

That will depend on how much CPU power you have

For systems with and AMD 1800/ Intel 1.8 GHz and above ---
Resize to sharpen ---
1. On the left hand panel unselect everything to start
2. Now go to the Resize & aspect setting ( hint - it does not have a check mark box beside it ) and highlight it. You should notice little up down arrows to the far left hand side, once highlighted. Click on the up arrow ( you should notice the Resize & aspect menu move up on the panel ) do this until it is above the Blur & NR option
3. Once again select the Resize & aspect option on the left panel. In the screen that is now populated to your right you should notice and option ( Resize ) with a check mark beside it. Check it. Under that option select the ( Specify size ) option and set your new size to 1440 x 960.
4. Select the Settings option on the left panel 9 hint – it is located directly below the Resize & aspect option ) in the right hand window select Bicubic under the Method option ( hint - if you have problem playing back smooth video playback try and change this option to experimental ). Under the Luma and Chroma sharpen option in the right hand menu select a setting from 1.0 to 2.0 ( you will need to adjust these setting to your personal taste, at a later date --- hint – I have both of mine set to 1.3).
5. Now go to the Blur & NR option on the left panel and check the check mark beside it. Also go the right hand screen and select gradual denoise and move the slider from 20 to 40 ( you will need to change this setting to your liking later – hint – I have mine set to 40 )
6. Select OK.
7. Now play a movie to see if you get smooth playback ( one thing I have noticed on my system is that my menus do not play back smoothly while the video does, so make sure to play the move to check not the menu)
8. if you do not get smooth playback first to experimental instead of bicubic and if that doesn’t help try turning off the Blur & Nr option. And last if those doest works try the next set of instructions.

Plain old sharpen option
1. On the left hand panel unselect everything to start
2. First you will want to select the Blur & NR option on the left hand panel until you see the up and down arrows. Now click on the down arrow until the Blur & NR option is below the Sharpen option on the left hand panel
3. Select the Sharpen option. In the right hand screen you will see options to select different sharpening methods ( Xsharpen, Unsharp mask, Msharpen, and asharp to be exact) select the unsharp mask and set it from 10 to 40 for the strength ( I have also heard great things about asharp but have never tried it myself, so I don’t know what those settings should be ) also make sure that the check mark beside sharpen is selected.
4. Select the Blur & NR option on the left hand panel and set the Gradual denoise from 10 to 40.
5. Give it a try and see how it looks but more importantly play around to tweak the setting for you set.

And that’s all for now. Sorry if my grammar wasn’t the best or if I made any mistakes.
And thanks to everyone on this forum who have helped to make this happen

EDIT

If you are reading this thread for the first time, take note of the date.
This thread is now very old. So I suggest that you just read the last 10 or maybe 20 pages to find out the current best practice.
Over the time this thread has been running, there has been considerable advancement in hardware, software, and of coarse experience. So consider these early posts as early experiments with FFDShow and the hardware-software available at the time.
If you are feeling keen, you may want to read the old posts as reference. There will be information in there that you may find useful in understanding FFDShow and its use.

I started an even older thread on FFDShow resize back in June 2003.

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=234832&highlight=ffdshow+resize+as+sharpen


Here is a link to a good illustrated starters guide for Zoom Player and FFDShow setup. Newbies should start here.

http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=ffdshowdvd_1

Regards,

Owen

___________________________
The FFDShow resize-sharpen dude.

P.S. Almost all the common questions get asked and answered within the last 10-20 pages of the thread and I considerer the asking of questions that HAVE been answered within those pages to be rude and shows a lack of effort or your part.





kejar31,

Thank your for spending the time to write this FAQ.
Just couple of things I have an issue with.

1. It is not required to resize to anywhere near 1440x 960 to get good results with Resize-Sharpen. A 25-30% increase over DVD resolution is a good starting point and work up from there depending on system speed. Bigger is not always better.
This will help a lot more people to get Resize-Sharpen working for them.

2. I would encourage people to start with Gradual denoise before the resize filter.
Or not use it at all until they can get resize running smoothly.
It is more important to have Resize with Sharpen then denoise.
There is only a slight improvement in using the denoise filter after resize so it is better to have denoise first and save the CPU to get a more optimum resize.

Regards,

Owen

Thanks a lot for this! I am nearly done with the hardware construction on my HTPC and software still holds some abiguity for me. This sheds a lot of light.
Thanks!
FREAK!

Small note... you no longer nead graph files to get ZP to work with FFDShow in v3.00 RC1.

Originally posted by Blight
Small note... you no longer nead graph files to get ZP to work with FFDShow in v3.00 RC1.

that sounds great Blight Ill try that out tonight. Thanks for your great program:D

Originally posted by Owen
kejar31,

Thank your for spending the time to write this FAQ.
Just couple of things I have an issue with.

1. It is not required to resize to anywhere near 1440x 960 to get good results with Resize-Sharpen. A 25-30% increase over DVD resolution is a good starting point and work up from there depending on system speed. Bigger is not always better.
This will help a lot more people to get Resize-Sharpen working for them.

2. I would encourage people to start with Gradual denoise before the resize filter.
Or not use it at all until they can get resize running smoothly.
It is more important to have Resize with Sharpen then denoise.
There is only a slight improvement in using the denoise filter after resize so it is better to have denoise first and save the CPU to get a more optimum resize.

Regards,

Owen

Owen:

I will try and edit the Faq tonight but I might not be able to get to it until tomorrow. If you have anything you would like to add or reword in the original post I can add or edit it for you and note you changes. Just email me the rewording or changes at justin.rogers@kraft.com or just post with a reply in this forum. If you rewrite som I can add it right away.

How important is/do we need to select 'Process whole image'? Not selecting this gives me smooth playback on my lame 1ghz athlon but selecting it throws things off even though 100% cpu utilization is never reached regardless. After playing with the filters for a while my eyes are playing tricks on me so I just want some confirmation on my hunch :)
Thanks for taking the time to do this...It got me off my ass to finally give it a shot. Your directions worked perfectly.
-Trouble

"Process whole image" processes the black bars on top and bottom as well.

Originally posted by Blight
Small note... you no longer nead graph files to get ZP to work with FFDShow in v3.00 RC1.

Where can we download that? I don't see it on your page...

Originally posted by Dammit!
Where can we download that? I don't see it on your page...

check out this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=245776

thanks for the faq. it's exactly what i've been looking for.
i have an athlon 1700 and the 1440x960 resize didn't work but on owen's suggestion i'm now resizing to 960x640.

Originally posted by kejar31
Supported Codecs -- Unselect everything except Raw video
why?

just wated to report my findings on resize..i too couldn't go as high as some others have..i tried 1280x720 and it wasn't bad,but i got the slo mo menus.i went to 1024x720 instead and now everything works!!!it really is a nice way to improve the picture..

i was using asharp before this and it worked qiute nicely as well,but i didn't like the "ringing" or edge enhancemant it introduced...anyhow i'm thru tweaking for alittle while..probably til next weekend..

brickie

To be pixel perfect for my D-ILA have the desktop set to 1360x1024

OR as a general question, do you have to set the resize larger than the standard dvd size but at least as big as the native screen resolution of the projector?

you should set it higher than 720x480 otherwise there's no point in resizing. but you don't have to set it as high as your native screen resolution. 1440x960 would be optimal regardless of you native resolution (since it will be adjusted again upon full-screen display) but most people can't get that high.

Great Guide, thought I would add my input:

I did the resize method as you listed. I am using zp3 + cineplayer video + powerdvd audio + ffdshow + reclock.

I was having some stuttering problems but my CPU usage was only at about 70% with the exact settings you listed (athlon xp 1800+ /w 512MB DDR 2100)

So, I figured the stuttering couldnt be because i was trying to use too much, because I wasnt hitting 100% CPU usage.

I moved the Blur & NR to before the Resize and all the stuttering stopped. Its running great at a resize of 1440x960 with my desktop resolution being 1184x666


Here are the other settings I changed (due to improved PQ):
I am using Process full image for both blur and the resize.
I am using experimental resizing instead of bicubic
my gradual denoise is set to 30
and as i said i blur and nr THEN resize.

Otherwise all settings are as listed in original post.

LOOKS GREAT!!!

Before I was using a sharpen method almost the exact same as you listed as the sharpen method in your original post, I can say without a doubt the resize method I am using now yeilded a 100% improvement in PQ.

I AM VERY HAPPY!

you should be aware that the CPU resource monitoring under windows is EXTREMELY flawed, it may be listed at 70%, but in fact be using 100%.

Noise reduction should probably be done before the resize, but blur? Why would you blur the image? And for ref. sharpening should be done after the resize.

I meant Blur and NR as a catagory, im not really blurring anything, im just using the NR.

And with the current resize setup I dont use the sharpening options at all. The resize does the sharpening for me.

DrakkenFire,
"Proccess whole image" is not a good idea.
It asks ffdshow to proccess the top and bottom black bars as well as the video.
This is a wast of CPU.

Try useing less Resize and Gradual denoise after Resize as another option.
Sometimes this works better overall.

Im glad you have the resize toy running.
Another happy Resize & Sharpen customer.

Regards,

Owen

I was running without process whole image checked, but there was a marked improvement once I checked it.

Could someone post an image of a filtergraph (Graphedit) using ffdshow?

I know there was a thread on here about 3 weeks ago that had a whole bunch of filtergraphs using ffdshow... also, if you check the inmatrix forums (ZP website) there is a post that has all kinds of filtergraphs that vern dias posted. It used to be a sticky thread on that forum, but got bumped when the new version was released.

Also, I would suggest ZP3 Pro. It eliminates the need for filtergraphs, and allows you to try different combinations to check quality, very very easily. You do have to register it eventually, but the $20 is well worth it.

Dear friends,
I have a desktop set to 1280x720, as I am using Radeon 9500 DVI to Infocus 7200, native.
Do I need to use exactly 1280x720 in order to avoid problems?
I presume that I have to get exactly the native resolution - am I wrong?
I have read above of much higher resolutions - are these for CRTs?
Thank you all in advance
Paolo

whats the best way for it to actually do something to the vid feed coming in off a capture card? ie the Xcapture?

I have gotten it to work on recordings using various codecs.. but am having a hell of a time getting it to edit the live feed (raw data I presume? )

Originally posted by Blight
you should be aware that the CPU resource monitoring under windows is EXTREMELY flawed, it may be listed at 70%, but in fact be using 100%.

Noise reduction should probably be done before the resize, but blur? Why would you blur the image? And for ref. sharpening should be done after the resize.

Wouldn't it be better to process the image(NR) after resizing? The whole point in resizing is so that the algorithm works over a supersampled scene right? If NR is done before resizing, what's the resizing for? Wouldn't ZoomPlayer's "Full Screen" mode server the same purpose then?

hrm.. u make a FAQ and won't help? hehe

help!

can't get the vid to work with what's coming over the capture card.. I know it works, as I have seen others that have gotten it to work..

dnoyeb,

If what you are asking is: Can ffdshow be used to process live video from a capture card, then the anser is no. I dont think so. Not yet anyway.
Maybe it could integrated into Descaler by some very smart people. :D


Regards,

Owen

This is the first I have heard of ffdshow;

Will ffdshow work with Theater TK?

If so how? Do I need a graph for Theater TK?

Originally posted by Socio
This is the first I have heard of ffdshow;

Will ffdshow work with Theater TK?

If so how? Do I need a graph for Theater TK?

Yes, it will work with TheaterTek v1.5.23.

No, you don't need a filter graph. Theater Tek 1.5.23 provides the option to use ffdshow under the video tab.

Check out the Hints and Tips forum (IIRC)at the TheaterTek forums.

Originally posted by schud
Yes, it will work with TheaterTek v1.5.23.

No, you don't need a filter graph. Theater Tek 1.5.23 provides the option to use ffdshow under the video tab.

Check out the Hints and Tips forum (IIRC)at the TheaterTek forums.

Thanks for the info I am going to try out ffdshow and see how it works!

@Owen

I am using VirtualVCR in preview as my TVApp, ffDshow with raw option marked and resizing/sharpening in ffdshow at 1440 x 960 for my Live TV viewing. All this from myHTPC at 30/40 percent CPU usage. I am not using any blur/nr in ffDshow so I can manage to run smoothly...

Fallo

Note: I have posted this elsewhere but I though it appropriate to repost it here.

There is a lot of miss information getting around about ffdhow resize-sharpen.
Everyone seems to recommend doubling DVD resolution (720x480NTSC and 720x576PAL). This clean 2x multiple resize may be good idea if your display is 1440x960NTSC or 1440x1152PAL but there are not many displays of this exact resolution.
Now we have a dilemma. Since the display resolution will almost always be a non even multiple of the DVD resolution, is it better to have ffdshow resize to the exact display res or let the video card do a second resize to get the output resolution ?
We all know to output at our native display resolution to avoid scaling by the display/ projector. So why not avoid scaling by video card as well?
There are two ways to go here. You will have to try both methods for your selves to find what works the best for your system.


My experience is with a 4:3 1024-768 CRT display.
I have found that for me, resizing to double PAL DVD 1440x1152 in ffdshow and then down scaling to 1024x768 in Radeon 9500 hardware does not give me the best result.
Resizing to my display resolution of 1024x768 in ffdshow (no scaling by video hardware) gives me a sharper image.
Actually I have settled on a resolution of 1152x864 in ffdshow because I often zoom the DVD image about 15% in Zoom Player and 1152x864 results in minimal hardware scaling. I like the vertically larger picture on my 4:3 display and don’t mind cutting off the sides.

For people with low resolution displays (Standard Definition TV’s etc) I still recommend resizing to higher then there display resolution and downscaling in video hardware so that the Luma – Croma Sharpen part of the resize filter can be used. Double DVD resolution should be ideal here, as it will be halved for display. (even scaling multiple).
Don’t sweet it if your system cannot handle resize to double DVD res. Lower resize settings still work 90% as well. It’s not worth stutters in playback just to get the perfect resize.
The other reason to use ffdshow resize (apart from Luma – Croma Sharpening) is so that the Gradual Denoise filter can be use on the upscaled image. This allows higher denoise settings than could otherwise be used, and makes the Denoise filter more subtle and useful.
Remember that ffdshows filters are run in the order in which they appear in the filter list. From top to bottom. The order can be changed by dragging filters up or down the list.
Filters placed below Resize on the list will be acting on the Resized image. And with a much higher CPU overhead.
Descaler Sharpen filter in ffdshow works differently to Resize Sharpen and is recommended for bringing out fine details. But should be used before resize for best affect. It can introduce grain or noise if overused.
I like to use all three filters above. Resize Sharpen and Descaler Sharpen work differently and can be used to good affect together.
I generally don’t use the filters under the Sharpen tab in ffdshow (asharp,unsharp etc) as they are very harsh and artificial looking. But I have seen them put to good use on crappy, blurry TV’s.

As for how to setup ffdshow Resize.

1. Check “Resize” in upper left-corner.
2. Check “Specify Size”
3. Enter required size (must be multiple of 16)
4. Check “Resize Always”
5. Check "no aspect ratio correction" (aspect ratio is adjusted by your player)
6. Go to Settings tab and adjust Luma and Croma sharpness as required.

Good luck and have fun.


Regards,

Owen
___________________________
The ffdshow Resize Sharpen dude

Fallo,

Thanks for the info.

Regards,

Owen

I also have a 4:3 XGA display - and LCD projector in this case. I've configured ffdshow to resize to 1024x768 with around 1.3 luma/chroma sharpening. However, what I don't understand is how come the resulting image in ZP3 doesn't take up the entire screen? I check my ffdshow OSD and it indeed shows an output resolution of 1024x768, so logically it should take up the entire screen, but it doesn't, it still takes up a fraction of the screen only. I still have to manually run it in full screen mode. Is this normal?

I have the same thing. I need to zoom it in to where it fills my screen width. This is a CRT projector on a motorized 4:3 Grandview screen which is usually pulled up so only the top 1/3 is visible (of course only on 16x9 movies), since there are black curtains beneath the screen, and it gives that "hanging in thin air" look to the picture. :cool:

Hope this is not a dumb question, but here goes...

Are the settings that are being recommended in this thread the same for dvd as well as divx? I've been ripping my movies to divx and storing on hd to have a video server.


Thanks,

Yes and no. It all depens on your display device. On a really big screen like mine (close to ten foot wide, driven by a Barco Graphics) I need to ease off on the sharpness since bad source material (DiVX usually is, all though there are some pretty good high bitrate conversions) will get very grainy. If you rip your DVDs to DiVX 5x files with a size of at least 1 gig, like I do with especially children's movies and maybe use a slightly smaller screen you should be able to get away with the same settings. :cool:

Goi, try adjusting your aspect ratio under "resize & aspect". Mess around with "set aspect ratio manually" your solution should be in there somewhere. Good luck.

Can somebody explain this whole resize thing to me? If i am using a CRT with a resolution set by powerstrip at 1280by720 and 72hz how does ffdshow do anything different? If i set resize to 1440by960 what happens? In the end the projector is still receiving 1280by720 from the card is it not? I'm just trying to figure out what is going on here.

Brian

a 1.8ghz p4 isnt all that powerfull as the p4 does less work per clock

my question is: would my p3 1.26 512k L2 cache be powerfull enough to resize to large resolutions?

1280x720?

i may be able to overclock it to 1.58ghz if i'm lucky but i also want to keep it quiet

opinions/thoughts ?

I'm using my Thunderbird 1.4GHz to resize to 1024x768(my projector's native resolution) along with chroma/luma sharpening and gradual denoise, so I'm guessing yours might be able to do it too.

Brian, the thing is that it improves the image to resize it up and then scale it with the graphics card. I have no idea why, it just does. :cool:

Originally posted by Mastiff
Brian, the thing is that it improves the image to resize it up and then scale it with the graphics card. I have no idea why, it just does. :cool: Well, here's a short explanation why it works like it does:

First you have your original image:
http://membres.lycos.fr/karpaasi/Driven100x100_original.jpg

If you just run one of the available sharpen filters on it you get something like this:
http://membres.lycos.fr/karpaasi/Driven100x100_sharpen.jpg

Note the halo around the lip of the baseball cap in the pic. Also, some macroblocking artifacts are more prominent.

If you resize the original image with a decent interpolation algorithm (bicubic in this case) you get this:

http://membres.lycos.fr/karpaasi/Driven200x200_original.jpg

Now, if you apply the same sharpening algorithm as before on this larger image you get something like this:

http://membres.lycos.fr/karpaasi/Driven200x200_sharpen.jpg

The halos are still there but to a lesser degree. One of the reasons why the halos are decreased is the fact that the original edge between the cap and background has now been stretched to be a few pixels wider with the interpolation that was applied.

Once you resize this larger sharpened image back to the original size you can compare the results:

http://membres.lycos.fr/karpaasi/Driven100x100_original.jpg http://membres.lycos.fr/karpaasi/Driven100x100_resize_sharpen.jpg http://membres.lycos.fr/karpaasi/Driven100x100_sharpen.jpg

Going from left to right: original, resize+sharpen and sharpen.

ffdshow also uses a number of different sharpening algorithms so the algorithm in use, of course, has a major impact on the image quality.

Thanks for the explanation. Next question is, how did anybody ever figure this out in the first place? ;)Brian

Exellent explination karpaasi. I could not have said it better myself.
I started using this technique with still images in Photoshop.
It was only logical to give it a go on video.
Ffdshow just provided the tools. Thanks very much to Milan.
Since no one on the forum had ever mentioned this technique. I posted my findings so others could experiment.
It took some time to catch on, but is now widely used.
There are many posts on the subject now.
My original thread titled “ffdshow resize to sharpen” started back in early 2003 and is no longer on the forum server.
Things move fast around here.

Regards,

Owen
___________________________
The ffdshow Resize Sharpen dude.

Originally posted by Owen

My original thread titled “ffdshow resize to sharpen” started back in early 2003 and is no longer on the forum server.


still here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=234832)

Maybe we need a FAQ on how to use the search engine :D

BTW Owen, thanks for bringing the resize benefits to our attend. Here's my little tip when using resize: move the "parameter" slider ( just above the luma/chroma sharpen controls ) a little to the left of its rightmost default position. As soon as it's moved I noticed a reduction of the edge enhancement artifacts. I was using the AVIA disk and checking the "sharpness" pattern in an attempt to settle on optimal settings when I noticed this improvement. It is easier to see the effect though with a AVIA moving test pattern such as the ones you use for adjusting your hue. Just pay attention to the text at the top of those patterns as you move the "parameter" slider.

I haven't be able to find out exactly what that control's purpose is so if anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.

Cheers :)

Russ

Thanks for info Russ. I'll check it out when I get time.
Damn search engine would not go back that far yesterday when I checked.
That, or I'm going senile. :D

Regards,

Owen

Does anyone else have problems with ffdshow and ATI 9700 pros? When i turn ffdshow filter on in zoomplayer..my video goes green with bars. I have a AIW 9000 im about to pop that in and give it a shot

No problem here with an AIW 9700 Pro using ffdshow with TheaterTek.

Benny

Is it still sharpening as much when you move the parameter setting? I'm going to try it tonight!

Mark

PS. Seems to be a lot of Aussie's posting on this thread!

Ok tell me how stupid I am.

When I go to start menu->programs->ffdhow->configuration

Nothing happens, hour glass runs then nothing.

I wanted to try this with WinDVD and PowerDVD just to see.

I downloaded the file stated in the beginning of the thread, did I miss a step.

Thanks
DuMb and dUmBer

jedi

Originally posted by Mark_A_W

Is it still sharpening as much when you move the parameter setting?


Hey Mark,

the sharpening effect is still there but the 'halos' you get around objects caused by excess sharpening is decreased slightly. Its a subtle effect to be sure, and is hard to pick up unless you are starring at test patterns! Now I run my Luma/Chroma sharpening at 2.0, so maybe the effect is more apparent when using that amount of sharpening. It's quite likely that a similar result could be achieved by leaving the 'parameter' control untouched and use less luma/chroma sharpening, but the 'parameter' slider was added for some reason by the programmer .... just don't know what its real purpose is.

Cheers :)

Russ

Originally posted by benny
Now I run my Luma/Chroma sharpening at 2.0, so maybe the effect is more apparent when using that amount of sharpening.
Have you tried leaving the luma at 2.0 but cutting the chroma to about 0.5? I've found that a low chroma sharpen reduces halos and EE-type artifacts while still maintaining most of the perceived detail.

Thanks for the suggestion .. I'll give it a whirl.

Cheers :)

Russ

I just had a major crash and trying to get my HTPC up an running. Lots of stuff is not working, but I hope to fix it soon. One thing I need help with is FFDShow installation. I had to do destructive restore (got fatal blue screen with installation of new 3.5 ATI drivers) and now when I am trying to download FFDShow from Source....etc I am not getting the ffdshow.exe downloaded in the package (even when I extract), so I can not run FFDShow. It has been a while since I was setting up the FFDShow last time. Any thoughts what am I missing here? Any help will be appreciated, and yes this is a simple issues, but if somebody can help it would be great. I have all the other stuff on my mind begining with most of the hardware not really working after re-install to my codecs not wokring, applications hanging, the whole nine yards. Thanks in advance.

I do not understand your problem
download ffdshow-20030523.exe at http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/ffdshow/ffdshow-20030523.exe?download

and execute the .exe prg

you will install ffdshow

With the 05232003 build of ffdshow, the codec window has changed. What should the settings be?

I use FFDshow 05232003 (raw mode selected) with ZP 3.0. With a custom filtergraph taked from the forum it works great with Sonic cinemanster.
But if I don't use custom filter and only select in ZP Windvd filter audio & video (version 5.026.6) and check FFDshow, ZP crashes both using overlay and VMR9.
I've tried ZP RC3 and many settings and suggestions from the forum without results. If I uncheck FDDshow ZP works fine with WinDVD filters.

My system: WindowsXP SP1, NForce2 MB, ATI 9700, DirectX 9.0a.

Please help me, thanks.

Bye,
Jok

JokJok I've the same setup and problem.
But I've a Geforce2 Asus graphics adapter.
So it seems not to be a problem with the ATI cards.

Genocide1,

I am having the same issue as you, when I enable ffdshow in zoomplayer a series of green horizontal bars appear. My setup, is zoomplayer 3.0, latest ffdshow, xp pro, ati 8500 with 3.5 catalyst.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

To those that have green bars.

Make sure you have 'No Aspect Ratio Correction' selected in ffdshow under the 'resize and aspect' section.

If you have 'Keep Original Aspect Ratio' selected, this can happen depending on your resize and output resolution.

Owen,

Thank you very much for your experience. :D
I will post to you my own experience with the resize and sharpen.
Before everything, I should say that I am not the kind of man that will have a special setting for every single DVD, but will try to have the perfect settings for my wide DVD collection.
By all the settings I tried with FFDSHOW (into ZP an my prefered TT), the only 3 params I used are
-resize
-luma sharpen
-chroma sharpen
and that is all !!!
I read and tryed all the configurations that was posted on this thread (and the previous one).
Every others params will only make little gain on one single DVD but with the other ones, will create unwanted artefact.

For example, we can take one great DVD masterization: SEVEN zone 1 (2disk set-remasterized in high definition and transfered in DVD standard format).
take the chapter 3 (or4?) when Brad Pit is waiting under the rain, and the folowing paning camera movement. This scene is exeptional by the feeling of this rain, and the good picture transcription of it, despite its very very difficult way to convert it with MPEG2 compression).
Whatever param you choose on gradual denoise, this scene will lost all the impression of the rain and will look awfull!!!:(
In that case, I am very worry to loose the quality of transcription of these scene with a little gain in all the others scene.
So, for me Gradual denoise is not a standard quality improvment filter.

Sometimes I noticed a fair improvment with sharpen filter (before resizing) with Xsharpen param, but most of the time it create unwanted artefact with others DVD.

So that is all, I will continue to try some settings, but I have the impression to have done all the possibilities.
My quest seems to have reached a good point, with TheaterTek player, to just now watch DVD...:)

Mars1,
Gradual denoise is optional, but if properly use it should not cause visible problems.
It should be used after resize and with moderat settings up to about 25-30 Max.
I do not recomend any of the filters under the Sharpen tab in ffdshow.
Dscalers sharpen filter is recomended for bringing out fine detail. Over use will bring out noise, so go easy. Everything in moderation.
Dont forget to try the LANCZOS sharpen method in resize.

Regards,

Owen
_______________________________
The ffdshow Resize-Sharpen dude.

A few weeks ago I was running an HTPC with a 1.6Ghz p4, ZP 310RC2 (I think) using WinDVD 5 video, Sonic audio and ffdshow (0523) filters. Ffdshow was only doing minimal resizing (to next 16 size) with the bicubic algorithm, luma sharpening at 1.5 and chroma sharpening at 1. Also some very mild dscaler sharpening (around 60 or so). Everything seemed to work just fine -- I could click the resize box on and off and see the effects of luma sharpening, and of course dscaler was pretty obvious. If I changed from next 16 resizing to a fixed 1280x720 resize (native to the Radeon 9800 Pro video card) I could see a clear improvement in video, but the processor was nailed so I couldn't use it.

So I upgraded the system to a 2.8Ghz p4, but left all the hardware and software the same. ffdshow's version stayed the same -- in fact the only thing that changed was ZP to 310 release version. Initially everything appeared to be about the same, but when I started experimenting with resizing the behavior was totally different. Now I see no difference whether resize is on or off, next 16 or 1280x720 (or even 1920x1080), and the processor load doesn't change at all between different settings. I've tried putting the size very high and then dscaling after that but as before only the effects of dscaler in ffdshow are noticeable. In the resize submenu, aspect and borders work just fine. If I change the resize algorithm in resize->settings to lanczos and put luma and chroma sharpen at 2, and the parameter bar fully left to the default position, I can see a softening of the picture when that bar is moved off of default, *whether or not resize is enabled*!

This is absolutely making no sense to me. Doesn't matter if you use Overlay or VMR9, and it doesn't seem to matter what the placement (order) of the resize option is -- I usually have it as far to the top as it will go.

Is there any setting or combination of settings that I could have set incorrectly to cause this? Tonight I have duplicated the whole setup on another computer not connected to a pj, just a regular workstation but with similar processor, memory and software in it. The behavior appears to be identical, so either I'm doing something in each case to cause this, or maybe there's an ffdshow bug of some sort? Anyone have an idea on this?

This is XP Pro, sp1 and all patches current, dx9a/b. I've tried different video decoders as well but results are the same.

Exasperating!

--Bill

bblue,
Resize cannot be enabled, disabled or have size changed on the fly. A restart of Zoom Player is required.
Once enabled, sharpen settings can be changed on the fly by moving the sliders.

Regards,

Owen
___________________________
The ffdshow Resize-Sharpen dude

Originally posted by DrakkenFire
Great Guide, thought I would add my input:
...I was having some stuttering problems but my CPU usage was only at about 70% with the exact settings you listed (athlon xp 1800+ /w 512MB DDR 2100) ...moved the Blur & NR to before the Resize and all the stuttering stopped. Its running great at a resize of 1440x960 with my desktop resolution being 1184x666


neway i tried both methods when i had an xp2100 ( @ 1730 mghz)
and it was running very good...
i don't understang why people keep saying that they can't even get it to run at 1440x960 witha 3.2ghz pent 4 and i had it running ok at 1600 1200 with my 1.73ghz amd ...it is just normal that it works good with your setup

try and see in the ifo of fddshow what is your processed frame rate ??

now upgraded to 1920ghz BARTON ( double cache memory + 333fsb)
and it works flawlesly at 1600 1200 with noise before resize and lancoz as the selected method :)
i am another happy customer Owen :)
hihi :p

Owen correct me if i'm wrong please..
been reading other's posts some..

the point of using resize ( without talking about sharpen pq enchancements.. )
IS to be able to bypass the cheeze video card hardware scaler and do it with better "control" software ( using computer cpu time ) to get a better PQ out of the resizing ( scaling up usually from DVD )

i am personally using my computer monitor at 1600 1200
so the best pq i can get for the scaling is to use intesive software methods such as the one proposed by ffdshow resize option :)
right?

then ZP will be able at full screen to use 1:1 from direct show pixel directly to my display instead of asking the video card to resize everything wiht it's hardware correct ?

same applies to anyone using a display that do not match dvd resolution

let's say a 1280 X768 lcd projector with DVI input ( just adds on to the PQ estimate :p hehe )
someone would want to do the resize software instead of doing it hardware from the vid card ..so they would be resizing to 1280X768 straight away! :)


_____________

then please explain again your theory( i think u proposed it last thread about resize i read .. ) about resizing further than the final display rez to then size down bad\ck to it???
was it so filters can be used on a higher rez source ??
need more info :)

( thought i wouldn't be able to resize at more than 1600 1200 for now i'm pretty sure :p)
hihi

i'll need a pretty fast computer to be able to resize to 1920 1080P when i'm going to buy the new tosh LCOS :)
hhihih :p

Originally posted by JinMTVT
neway i tried both methods when i had an xp2100 ( @ 1730 mghz)
and it was running very good...
i don't understang why people keep saying that they can't even get it to run at 1440x960 witha 3.2ghz pent 4 and i had it running ok at 1600 1200 with my 1.73ghz amd ...it is just normal that it works good with your setup

try and see in the ifo of fddshow what is your processed frame rate ??

now upgraded to 1920ghz BARTON ( double cache memory + 333fsb)
and it works flawlesly at 1600 1200 with noise before resize and lancoz as the selected method :)
i am another happy customer Owen :)
hihi :p

Sorry to nick pick, but the Athlon XP 2100+ runs at 1733MHz(not mghz), and which Bartan did you get yourself? I'm not away of any that run at 1920MHz(again, not GHz) ;)

oops thanks for nothing my stupid ( almost asleep late ) typos :p

i got the base BARTON
the XP2500 one..for 140$CAD!!! this is almost ridiculous price
so it is a 1820MHZ stock .. right now i'm at 1870MHZ
plan on running it at almost 2ghz since this is what it really is
( same as the other same bach bartons..just declocked as amd always do..so alwways purchase the slowest one and OC it:p )


i just experienced something that i am quite happy about! :

was trying to find a good dvd to watch in 4:3 on my computer monitor..
so i tumbled upon the first edition of LOTR in 4:3 version

so poped it in..

selected resize at 1440 960 ..ran perfectly good with some sharpening the process and blur NR before ( grad noise at 25, blur at 2 )

then changed it for 1600 1200
still plays perfectly, no lost frames, no skippping..cpu use according to ****** task manager is at 60-80%

then i though..ah let's try something MORE fun :)

reized to 1920 by 1440 just to see how much it would skip

well.. it plays perfectly :D

it means that i'll be able to use this current computer to drive a 1920 by 1080 P display if i wish to using software resize instead of hardware :)
and the PQ is wow at 1600 1200 on my sony 19 "!!

so for people that are looking for a good cheap computer pacakge that could drive a 1080p LCOS here is my config ..incase it can help someone decide :)

-----------------------

AMD BARTON XP2500 at 1870MHZ ( could run it at 1950MHZ pretty easy without any additional cooling )
ASUS A7N8X base board with 1004 bios Nforce chipset @ 169 bus
Corsair PC3200 512mb DDR ram ( at 2-2-2-5 )
Saphire Radeon 9500 128mb ( oced some and running as a 9800 pro right now..i can play at Unreal 2003 with everything at max @1600 1200
vid card AA @ 4X and aniso @ 16x = WOWOWOW perfectly smooth )
[b]Ego sys Waveterminal 192 L[/] good ok

the remaining doesn't change anything on performance of dvd play at all..

so all in all i'm happy

just updated from XP2100 to barton 2500 ..
soon when the price drops i'll add another 512mb of the same ddr
and run it in dual channel mode = even faster

The Barton 2500+ actually runs at 1833MHz(11x166MHz). Many have successfully clocked them to 3200+ PR, which is 2200MHz(11x200MHz), which isn't half bad at all. Which luma/chroma sharpening algorithm did you choose?

i thought that the algorithm was for the scaling/resize and not the sharpening options..
isn't it?

lancoz at default value!

sharpen are at 1.0 and 0.5

i tried to add the blur options..some times it help reduce noise
but i don't like the result so they are at 0

Owen, really? Has it always been this way? I could have sworn that earlier attempts (as I described) made changes at least in processor usage without re-runs. I could be in the ozone, though.

You are certainly correct. On both my systems things do properly change between runs of ZP. Thanks for the clarification!

--Bill

JinMTVT,

“the point of using resize ( without talking about sharpen pq enchancements.. )
IS to be able to bypass the cheeze video card hardware scaler and do it with better "control" software ( using computer cpu time ) to get a better PQ out of the resizing ( scaling up usually from DVD )”

In general, yes. Software resize certainly has the potential to offer better and more flexible resize quality then hardware. But YMMV.

“am personally using my computer monitor at 1600 1200
so the best pq i can get for the scaling is to use intesive software methods such as the one proposed by ffdshow resize option
right?”

Probably, try both hardware and software methods, and draw your own conclution.

“then ZP will be able at full screen to use 1:1 from direct show pixel directly to my display instead of asking the video card to resize everything wiht it's hardware correct ?”

Yes.

same applies to anyone using a display that do not match dvd resolution

”let's say a 1280 X768 lcd projector with DVI input ( just adds on to the PQ estimate hehe )
someone would want to do the resize software instead of doing it hardware from the vid card ..so they would be resizing to 1280X768 straight away! ”

Yes.

“then please explain again your theory( i think u proposed it last thread about resize i read .. ) about resizing further than the final display rez to then size down bad\ck to it???
was it so filters can be used on a higher rez source ??
need more info ”

Yes.

The thread you read would have been one of the early ones where I first proposed resize sharpening to the members of this forum. These early posts were mostly about resize sharpening and getting the most from it. For people with standard TV definition displays (or close) it is required to resize above there display rez to get the sharpen function to work. The video would then have to be down scaled by hardware for display at standard rez. Doubling DVD rez seemed like the logical ideal resize. And for people with standard NTSC or PAL definition displays I believe this to be the best setup as the resolution is exactly halved by hardware for display. This gives a nice even multiple for resize and avoids aliasing.
The problem is that many people with high definition displays (1920x1080 etc) assumed that doubling DVD rez would be best for them as well. For NTSC the double DVD rez of 1440x960 has to be resized up again to 1920x1080 for display. This extra resize step in hardware is in my opinion, detrimental. I consider it better to resize in software directly to 1920x1080 if CPU will allow. And avoid a second hardware resize. However resizing to 1920x1080 is impractical at this time due to hardware constraints. Also the need or want to run other filters as well as resize also makes very high rez resize impractical. So a compromise has to be reached between available CPU power, resize and need for other filters.
I cannot verify how detrimental the second hardware resize is in practice as I do not yet have a 1920x1080 display. Everyone will have to do there own tests and come up with the best compromise for them.
Non even multiple resize and aliasing is unavoidable in either scenario. It is yet to be seen which approach yields the best results.
This applies to all higher then DVD rez displays.(1024x768, 1440x720 etc).
Double DVD resize is NOT always the best solution.

As for the Toshiba LCOS, I to, want one of these toys. But It will have to wait until they are released here next year. I have seen the current US model and it was very impressive. It would seem the new models will be the display by which all others will be judged. :D
By then CPU’s will be hitting 4Gig+. It’s going to be interesting.
I hope the new model will support 1080p input.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

bblue,

“ Owen, really? Has it always been this way? I could have sworn that earlier attempts (as I described) made changes at least in processor usage without re-runs. I could be in the ozone, though.”

Yes always.
Ozone is bad for your health, dude :D

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

i thought that the algorithm was for the scaling/resize and not the sharpening options..
isn't it?Yes but different algorithms produce different results. Lancnoz retains more detail than bilinear or bicubic. Read this (http://www.avisynth.org/index.php?page=Resize) for details.

Originally posted by MentholMoose
Yes but different algorithms produce different results. Lancnoz retains more detail than bilinear or bicubic. Read this (http://www.avisynth.org/index.php?page=Resize) for details.

Unfortunately it takes quite a bit more CPU power too. My 1.4GHz Athlon Thunderbird isn't able to do it. I'm stuck with "experimental" instead :(

Just to follow up on Owen's comment on resizing for a 18920x1080 display I have found that for my display, a 1920x1080 HDTV, that the best results are obtained by resizing to 1440x960 in S/W and then letting the H/W (ATI 9700) do the final resize.

This combination avoids all aliasing / scaling artifacts. I tried 1920x960 briefly and it is right on the edge for smooth playback. I'm running a 2.5G P4.

If you've got the horsepower, I would definitely try 1920x960.

Originally posted by JinMTVT
Saphire Radeon 9500 128mb ( oced some and running as a 9800 pro right now..i can play at Unreal 2003 with everything at max @1600 1200
vid card AA @ 4X and aniso @ 16x = WOWOWOW perfectly smooth )


Where do you find the modified drivers? And what Catalyst version is that on? My source was a home page at maxdownloads.com, but it's gone. So is your home page as well, btw. I tried to go to it, but got nowhere.

Thanks in advance!

I am using a 960 * 540 native reso projector Sanyo Z1

1) What benefits/settings can I tweak ffdshow or zoom player to ?
a) can I tweak to 1920 * 1080 to improve picture quality .

2) does it make a difference in picture quality .colour fidelity whether I use a ATI Radeon 9200 , 9500 or 9600 PRO ? ( which is better ? )

3) I believe the following configuration is sufficient : asus p4p800 with intel p4 2.6 Ghz (FSB 800 ) + DDR 400 ( 256* 2 Mb Ram)

Hi OWEN,

I have the Sony HS10 PJ and native to 1366x768. So from what I understand you is to setup 1:1 mapping 1366x768 with PowerStrip and than setup FFDSHOW with the resize option to 1366x768 and let the software to do all the scaling and by pass PJ scaling ?

I noticed the image is much sharper and the color is more dynamic when it is resized to 1440x960 than 1152x768.

JinMVTV,

I am using 1800+ (1.53Ghz) with 256MB RAM and Radeon 7500. The resize and sharpen filer runs smooth with resize set to 1152x768 but it starts shuttering and dropping frames when I push it up to 1440x960. Is it due to my CPU too slow to keep up with it ?
I am not sure if Radeon 7500 is too slow to keep up ? Is Sapphire Radeon cards supported by Powerstrip ? as I had a hard time setting a Sapphire R9200 for a friend before and ended up he replaced with the ATI 9200 and it works ok. I may need an upgrade to the R9600.
I am also thinking of upgrading my CPU to 2400+ not the barton as I don't want to upgrade my MB yet. Hope 2400+ is fast enough to handle FFDShow. Comments ?

Thanks.

I have a problem that I didn't see this mentioned in the FAQ and a search didn't come up with any useful info.

I had both PowerDVD4 and WinDVD5 installed. I installed zoomplayer - works fine so far. I installed ffdshow. Zoomplayer still works fine. I select the ffdshow filter in zoomplayer and from that point on I get a can't connect error in Zoomplayer (Intervideo.out -> ffdshow.in) or something like that. The test setup button on the zoomplayer screen said everything is registered fine. After trying numerous things to get it to work, I somehow ended up hosing my complete operating system installation and had to reinstall winxp from scratch.

So, I'm hesitant to even test it again as I don't want to have to reinstall everything again. Anyone know what that error means and know if I might have missed a step somewhere? I didn't bother reinstalling PowerDVD - just want to try ffdshow with WinDVD stuff only.

Originally posted by Jeraden
I had both PowerDVD4 and WinDVD5 installed. I installed zoomplayer - works fine so far. I installed ffdshow. Zoomplayer still works fine. I select the ffdshow filter in zoomplayer and from that point on I get a can't connect error in Zoomplayer (Intervideo.out -> ffdshow.in)

Here are some points that have created some hangs with my installation, please check:
- Hardware acceleration desactivated? (config intervideo filter into the 4 tab select filter of ZP)
- Raw input selected ? (ffdshow config)
- Overlay selected ? (ffdshow + zp config)
- Zone 2 DVD instead of zone 1 ? (need to change registry key for hardcorepal value)
- try an other filter for sound filter output
- do not use reclock yet (use it after a 1st good configuration)
- if there is still some problems, try VRm9 instead of overlay
- and finally, if there is still some problems: instead of latest PWDVD4 or WINDVD5 filters, try olders one.

My understanding is PWDVD won't work with FDDSHOW. For WINDVD and CinMaster, you need to mod your registery to get it working.

One more, you need to open ffdshow and chose "all supported or enable " for "Raw Video" in the Codec tab otherwise pins can't connect. Hope this help.

I don't recall doing anything with Raw Video, so that might have been my problem. Still not sure why it corrupted my whole OS, but I'll give it another try later.

Oris,
By setting Powerstrip to 1366x768 you are already bypassing scaling by the Sony. By using ffdshow to scale to 1366x768 you are bypassing scaling by the Radion card.
What scaling method are you using (Bicubic,Lanczos)? And are you using any Luma or Croma sharpening?
I think the 1800+ is inadequate for 1440x960 resize.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Hmmn, Lanczos is actually pretty impressive...however I can only use it alone, without gradual denoise...since that combination is way out of my little Athlon Tbird 1.4GHz's league...maybe its time to clock it back to 1.5GHz, though I doubt a 100MHz overclock's gonna help much.

Owen,

Thanks for the quick reply..

[By using ffdshow to scale to 1366x768 you are bypassing scaling by the Radion card.]

So if I set Fddshow with 1440x960, is that mean it will not use Fddshow for scaling but using the Radeon 7500 ? From my experience, 1440x960 gives a way better PQ. However, it stutters for some DVD. Tonight I played a DVD and even with 1440x960, it gives very smooth DVD play back but this does not mean it will play with the same smoothness with other title..

[What scaling method are you using (Bicubic,Lanczos)?]
I cannot find the LANCZos scaling method for me to choose from. Do I need to install it separately ? Where can I download it ?


[ And are you using any Luma or Croma sharpening?]
I did not enable any luma or coma sharpening.

[I think the 1800+ is inadequate for 1440x960 resize.]
I am planning to upgrade to a 2400+. Do you think this will be fast enough to handle all the demanding DVD playback with FFDSHOW tweaking for highest level of PQ ? Also, I also want to use my HTPC for viewing satalitte with Dscaler. My 1800+ give me very bad stutting result. Hope 2400+ can handle it better.. Please comment!

Many thaniks

Owen,

Thanks for the quick reply..

[By using ffdshow to scale to 1366x768 you are bypassing scaling by the Radion card.]

So if I set Fddshow with 1440x960, is that mean it will not use Fddshow for scaling but using the Radeon 7500 ? From my experience, 1440x960 gives a way better PQ. However, it stutters for some DVD. Tonight I played a DVD and even with 1440x960, it gives very smooth DVD play back but this does not mean it will play with the same smoothness with other title..

[What scaling method are you using (Bicubic,Lanczos)?]
I cannot find the LANCZos scaling method for me to choose from. Do I need to install it separately ? Where can I download it ?


[ And are you using any Luma or Croma sharpening?]
I did not enable any luma or coma sharpening.

[I think the 1800+ is inadequate for 1440x960 resize.]
I am planning to upgrade to a 2400+. Do you think this will be fast enough to handle all the demanding DVD playback with FFDSHOW tweaking for highest level of PQ ? Also, I also want to use my HTPC for viewing satalitte with Dscaler. My 1800+ give me very bad stutting result. Hope 2400+ can handle it better.. Please comment!

Many thaniks

Oris, my 2600 is slightly strained, so I would buy a faster CPU if I was to buy one now.

Oris,
By setting ffdshow to resize at 1440x960 you are software resizing to 1440x960 then hardware resizing in Radion to 1366x768. A double resize operation.
It’s hard to see how this double resize could give an improved image. I would expect it to have a smoothing effect that may suit digital projectors but not CRT.
That’s why I am interested in feed back from people with HD displays of differing types.

To use LANCZOS resize go to the Settings sub menu under Resize & aspect.
The default is Bicubic from memory.
It would be good to try using some Luma and Croma Sharpening. Adjusted from the same menu.

Don’t even conceder a 2400+. If you must use an AMD chip, use a Barton core 512k cache Athlon which start at 2500+. They are faster and can be overclocked more.
You can not have too much CPU speed at the moment. I expect to need a 4Gig+ P4 when I go to a 1920x1080p display next year.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

And that's before you start playing with CO2 cooling, Owen... :cool:

read the FAQ, and also did a search for FFDshow, but couldn't find an answer..

program shuts down immediately at very low resize settings.
I have the ffdshow version from jan. 02, as I was told it was a good one.
am trying resize only, testing on a 400x300 avi file quality is 160 kbps.testing in wmp9, but ZP is behaving the exact same way.
the highest res I can NOT get is 672x432, testing +16 in each step.
clearly there must be something I am missing, since I have seen MANY others with slower procesors than mine using way more resizing..
I have AMD Athlon 2400+ 2,0 Ghz, 512 MB RAM

are there any settings in XP that could be the problem?
anything I can test to find the root cause?
one more thing, when this happens, the usage is only at 40% max....

Please help...

Owen,

I am using an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro on a Sony 11-HT which has a native resolution of 1366x768. My HTPC uses an Asus P4P800 mb with P4-2.4C and 512mb RAM.

I resize to 1440x960 then scale to 1366x768 on the video card and therefore bypass the Sony scaler.

I don't use reclock as I don't have any audio problems with the Audigy2.

The PQ is stunning...I am very pleased.

_______
Rick

oh, and this is on an LCD projector with native resolution 1024x768...

Burre, remind me: Could you use it on DVDs? :cool:

Millerrj,
Have you tried resizing to 1366x768 in ffdshow and avoid scaling in the Radeon as well?
Give it a try, and let me know how you like it.
Don’t forget to try the LANCZOS resize method.
I use the P4P800 as well, with 2.8c overclocked to 3.3G with CPU cooling fan on only 7volts (no noise) and 1Gig Corsair duel channel DDR.

Burre,
Does the player crash with other, more normal size video? Say 720x480 etc.
Can you play DVD’s using ffdshow and resize?

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

LANZCOS is great, especially when paired with gradual denoise. However, its extremely CPU intensive, and I only have an Athlon Tbird 1.4GHz(sometimes clocked to 1.5GHz), so this option is almost impossible if I resize to XGA(my projector's native resolution). Even on my main system, a P4 2.4B clocked to ~2.8GHz, it can be really really taxing when I LANZCOS resize divx/xvid movies to 1600x1200(my desktop resolution) with gradual denoise, but the results are really good looking.

On some I have problems seing too much of a difference between Lanzcos and bicubic. What values do you guys use on sharpen? And what is Parameter? It's on Default on my setup, I don't think I've touched it.

Also I have mine set to 1280x960 (I believe after advice in this forum some time long ago). Is that a good setup for a CRT-projector that's run at 1024x768 with a Radeon 9500? :cool:

I use default parameter(not sure what parameter is or does), and ~1.00 luma/chroma sharpen. One of them does more than the other, I can't remember which is which, but anyway, this amount depends on the material you're viewing too. Some require more sharpening, some don't require that much. As for the resize resolution, I believe it would be better to scale it to your projector's native resolution rather than to scale it larger and then have your video card's hardware scaler downscale it again.

Eh...read again. CRT-projector, mate. Doesn't have a native resolution. I thought the point was to scale it as large as possible and then let the Radeon scale it down to desktop resolution. Have I been sleeping in class?

And it's the top sharpen that really does the trick, I agree that the bottom one does not really do anything. Also, I usually stay with 2 on the most dramatic sharpener, but that's just because I'm the kind of guy who boosts color as well...and treble and bass on all my sound systems! :cool:

update: have tried to play DVDs, all I got was an error message. tried to follow each and every step of the xp help function, tested directdraw, direct3D, set desktop res. to 800x600, reduced colors to 16 bit, downloaded new Nvidia driver. nothing. same problem. does it matter that screen is set to plug and play?
haven't tried reducing hardware acceleration, so ill try that next.

Owen, as for more normal size video, I have tested on a file with size 624x368, max scale I can not get is 640x480, so obviously there is something strange going on.... tested 720x480, 800x600, 1024x768, and every multiple of 16 from 400 and up.....

Which DVD filter are you using? There are certain registry entries that has to be added for some. I think Sonic's Cinemaster filters are the easiest to get to work, while PowerDVD are a lot worse. WinDVD are possible to use, I know several members of the board use it. :cool:

DVD filter? U mean player?:confused:

I seem to have Win DVD, I also have ZP, WinDVD won't even open....

grrrr....

I'm using Sonic Cinemaster video filter and WinDVD5 audio filter. I haven't tried the PowerDVD5 filter yet but I might. I've added the AllowAllRenderers registry entry in the Sonic Video Filter section to make it work, without this ZP wouldn't even work with the setup.

Sorry I missed out the CRT part, but you mentioned that you're running it at 1024x768, so I would think that rescaling your video material to that resolution would be good enough, or in fact, optimal. It doesn't make sense to scale any higher if ultimately you're gonna use 1024x768.

:eek:

had no idea I needed that!
could You point me to where I can DL this cinemaster?
thar would be great...

Goi, if that last post was for me, 1024x768 is my desktop res, and also native for the proj, but cant get near that for resizing, I cant even get 640x480!!!!!!

No, Burre, that was for me. And I assumed (maybe foolishly) that you were only using ZoomPlayer, since that's the best way to use ffdshow. ZP is a player, but it has no filters. The filters are what decodes video and audio, so if you're on Zoom, you'll have to be using WinDVD filters if you haven't got PowerDVD or Cinemaster's filter pack installed. You should do a search here for WinDVD and ffdshow, maybe you'll find the right registry settings. As for Cinemaster that's something you buy (15 dolalrs, or something, I think) online. :cool:

OK, windvd was damaged so I am now searching for the disk, to reinstall.
Could it really be the reason I could not play DVDs?
and also the reasi\on I could not resize?
as for registry entrys, I found some sttrange numbers, do I have to enter them somewhere, or can I adjust it, in winDVD?

sorry, I am so not into this....

If the installation was faulty that could very well be the reason for a lot of things, yes. No, we're not talking about registration here, we're talking about a bunch of settings in the Windows registry. If I'm not mistaken I saw them some time here written by Vern Diaz, but I might be wrong. Can't anybody help this fresh, young man from a cold country? :cool:

well I now have managed to fix windvd...
that didnt do it either..
I understand these windows settings are pretty important...
Mastiff, couldnt find this "Vern diaz" when searching for user, could you tell me the exact username, or post a link here, if you happen to stumble upon it...
think im almost there...

Thanks a lot to all of you,
to Mastiff: tusen, tusen takk.....from a fellow "Viking"

Just thought I would get some clarfication in fact ffdshow is working correctly. My current desktop is set at 864x768, I launch TT w/ ffdshow selected to output at 1152x648. I have the OSD enabled via ffdshow and this is what I have,

Current Frame -1
CPU Load ~70
Inputsize 720x480
Outputsize 1152x648
Accurate deblocking 0
Frame Type 1
Decoder Uncompressed

I really can't tell if my res is switching from the desktop res to the one selected in ffdshow of 1152x648. Should I believe the OSD from ffdshow? What is confusing, even though the Outputsize indicates 1152x648, when I right click in TT and the menu pops up for TT it is in the same res as my dsektop not 1152x648. Is this normal and by design?



TIA

You can believe it :)

Burre,
I have no problem with Divx or Xvid of 720x576 resolution.
Your Athlon 2.4 should resize to 1024x768 without problem.
Remove and reinstall ffdshow and / or try a different version.
WinDVD filters need a registry change to play PAL DVD’s in Zoom Player.
You need to add a new Dword “DXVAPAL = 1” from memory.
Maybe its time to do a clean install of XP.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Mastiff,

“Have I been sleeping in class?”

Yep.

Have a read of this old post by me.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2345263#post2345263

I would encourage you to try resizing to your desktop resolution as well as double DVD resolution and see what works best for your display.
Double DVD res sounds good, but does not always give the best results.
I find that double DVD res gives a smoother or softer image. Good for digital displays but not so good for CRT.

Please post your results.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Originally posted by Owen
Burre,
I have no problem with Divx or Xvid of 720x576 resolution.
Your Athlon 2.4 should resize to 1024x768 without problem.
Remove and reinstall ffdshow and / or try a different version.
WinDVD filters need a registry change to play PAL DVD’s in Zoom Player.
You need to add a new Dword “DXVAPAL = 1” from memory.
Maybe its time to do a clean install of XP.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Regarding PAL playback, is it a concern if I use ZP with Sonic Cineplayer video and WinDVD5 audio filter, with reclock and ffdshow? I was trying to playback a PAL DVD a few days ago(25FPS) and I noticed that ZP could not play it with that setup - it would either crash with an generic error message, or the video would be all mangled/torn up with lines all over the place. The DVD played back ok on WinDVD5 and PowerDVD5, and I started experimenting with ZP to see where the error occured by starting off with the basic filters, then adding Reclock, then adding ffdshow. It turns out the playback is find until I added ffdshow to the mix...

Owen, thanks! I'll try those and report back. Probably during this weekend, I might try to sqeeze out the final ounces of PQ before I watch "Fellowship of the Ring" agan ("The Two Towers" comes out on tuesday, and I have to have continuety).

Goi, I have used that combination extensively without any problems.

Goi,
Sonic video filters need Dword “AllowAllRenderers =1” added to Sonic/Video Decoder part of registry for use with ffdshow.

WinDVD4.5 or 5 video decoder is the best quality. It's what I use.
Search for the posts by Vern Dias on how to get it working.
You need to use the Abstract DMO filter set to zero to avoid freeze problem with WinDVD.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Govnah,

“I really can't tell if my res is switching from the desktop res to the one selected in ffdshow of 1152x648. Should I believe the OSD from ffdshow? What is confusing, even though the Outputsize indicates 1152x648, when I right click in TT and the menu pops up for TT it is in the same res as my dsektop not 1152x648. Is this normal and by design?”

ffdshow is resizing to 1152x648 and then your video card is resizing that to 864x768 for display.
Why not try resizing directly to your desktop res?
The other option is double DVD resolution in ffdshow and let your video card resize to desktop res. Give both a try.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

I have that registry setting, if not it wouldn't work at all. Strangely the problem sets in when I enabled ffdshow. Which version are you guys using? As for video filters, I find the PowerDVD5 is even better than WinDVD5 nowadays. WinDVD5's black levels are quite appalling, but its sharper than Sonic

Burre, I have the solution! Look at this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=292858) thread that explains the registry settings you need. You will also need the 23.05-version of ffdshow, and you need two registry files from bbq's webpage, which is here. (http://webhost.bridgew.edu/ylam/index.html) Download the ffdshow.reg and abstract.reg and run those on your setup (don't worry, they're not dangerous!). Then fire up ZoomPlayer and go to options. There you need to choose Intervideo's filter for video, ffdshow and a filter in the same window as ffdswho (it's called additional filters) by the name of DMO_V InterVideo Abstract. Close that window and try. It should work, at least it did on my system! So have yourself a bottle of your favourite beer and start to compare picture quality before and now! :D

I'll just do whatever you say Mastiff....:)

I'll post back when I'm done..

Owen,

After reading your various comments about matching resolutions, I tried to input 1366 x786 but fddshow resize will not accept those values - that's why I used 1440x 960.

If you know of some way around this, please let me know. It would save the video card from rescaling.

That said, the PQ is pretty impressive.

_______
Rick

millerrj,

That is a strange resolution dude.
All resize values have to be divisible by 16 or they are rejected.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Owen, stupid question what exactly do you mean it must be divisible by 16? Literally I know what it means, but in releation to ffdshow could you elaborate for a noob?


TIA

If you can divide the resolution with 16 and get a full number (like 1600 divided on 16 will be 100) you're OK. If you get a number with decimals (like 1610 divided by 16 will be 100.625) you're not OK. Simple as that. It's a limitation that lies in may types of video files and players. :cool:

Mastiff both the horizontal and vertical or just the horizontal res? I would imagine both. Can you belive what ffdshow is telling you via the OSD? I'm just having a hard time because I really can't tell a diff. I have a desktop res of 864x648 and a ffdshow resize of 1440x960. I do not change the res on the desktop before I launch TT, I let ffdshow take care of that and the OSD tells me that my outputsize is 1440x960, so I guess all is good. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


TIA t

Yes, both. And I believe the OSD's correct. The output size is scaled back to 864x648 by your graphics card. :cool:

Mastiff if I'm understanding your last post, even though I'm scaling up to 1440x960 via ffdshow when I launch TT and my desktop is 864x648 TT is NOT playing the DVD at the ffdshow res but the desktop res of 864x648 "The output size is scaled back to 864x648 by your graphics card." So, what I need to do is increase my desktop res > ffdshow of 1440x960 and then scale back down to ffdshow's res of 1440x960 when I launch TT? Please tell me that is a corrupt assumption!

TIA
'

Owen,

Excuse the typo in my note - the Sony 11-HT native resolution is 1366 x 768.

Ok, the 1366 is not an even multiple of 16, so I have the following choices:

a) resize fddshow using 1360 x 768 - Radeon will upscale to 1366x768

b) resize fddshow using 1376 x 768 - Radeon will downscale to 1366x768

c) leave my fddshow 1440x960 alone - the Radeon is already downscaling
I'm already quite pleased with this PQ.

Which option do you recommend?

________
Rick

I have a similar question to go along with millerrj...

I am currently running a res of 1920x1080i out to my Sony RPTV via DVI. I have ffdshow resize set to 1440x960 and the picture looks good. However, would it be better if I set resize to 1920x1080 to match the output res? I already tried setting resize to match the output res of 1920x1080 but the picture was choppy--it wouldn't play smoothly.

I'm wondering if I should upgrade my AMD1.8GHz 'Barton' to something faster. The question is, would it be worth my while? Or would the differences be so insignificant it would be a waste of time/money? BTW, I'm running a Radeon7500. Thanks for any insight.

-S

Govnah, you need to try for yourself what's best. Maybe upscaling and then downscaling is, maybe you should let ffdshow scale to your native resolution (providing you've got a digital projector).

I think my whole issue is that I'm tryin to accomplish this using a direct view 40" Sony XBR, which is a pain in the ass.

well, I got it all working now...almost....
I can set the output to 1440x960, but I cant see a difference in zoom....
OSD from FFDshow doesn't come up, either , so does that mean the setting isn't applied to ZP?

I'm not sure I got all the settings in zoom right, so could you please explain it to me step by step, Mastiff, the settings in zoom?

... for some types in ffd, I have the choice of disabled, or libra-something..
is libra the best?

millerj

I use ffdshow thanks to Owen and bbq and others to my hearts delight and experimented with it.
The secret is not the down or upscaling to the projector but what happened before that in the digital domain, The original data per frame is altered digitally (filter), in this case making it sharper. if you would use ffdshow and change the resolution to 1440x 960 but keep chroma and luma sharpen zero you would hardly notice any difference between using ffdshow or not.
The more you rescale up before the filter steps in, the more refined or subtle (read: less perceivable digital negative side artefacts) the sharpening effect will have. try chroma and luma sharpening with resolution 480x300 and let the graphicscard do the upscaling to 1366x768 (strange choice of Sony) the effect will be horrible.
If you do the reverse, say 1920x1080 (if CPU can handle it) and let the gr. card downscale to 1366, the effect will be better with actually much less negative artefacts. Altering still pictures like in photoshop follow the same principle.
The rule of thumb is roughly try to find out how high can you go with the filter in action and then bring back the resolution to the native screen resulution.
this is theory. In practice like many said before, you have to try. In the chain, conversions by themseves do create distortion.. WHich upscaling is the cleanest? done by ffdshow or card? Or is downscaling by card cleaner or less clean than letting ffdshow scale to the native resolution of projector? If I let ffdshow scale to screen resolution as it is cleaner than the graphicscard, I will loose the PQ advantage of altering the image on a higher resolution and let the card downscale.
Only trial and error will let you find out. theory is only a guideline here

supraholic97
A Barton 1,8 gig is the 2500+? This is on most motherboards with an FSB of 166 easy to oçlock to >2,0 gig. A mini mum of12,5x166 w. a voltage of 1,85 volts is almost 100% guaranteed.

another way is to use DVD Shrink and copy yr DVD to hdd. And use ZP + ffdshow to alter the PQ. You need much less CPU to process a DVD from hdd than from a disk in the drive.

I add both . I o clock my barton 2500+ and copy the disk (mostly within 40 minutes) to hdd. watch the movie and afterwards delete the +/- 5gig from my hdd.

the difference is roughly 15 - 20 % less cpu time from hdd compared to disk in DVD rom

The Barton 2500+ runs at 1833MHz, but as kyrill said is easily overclockable to 3200+ speeds(or 200x11=2.2GHz). That's a quick and easy upgrade right there, and should be really fast since the 3200+ is the fastest AMD Athlon XP CPU you can get right now.

Ok, now I am quoting myself. If you are a noob, read this several times until you understand it.

There is a lot of miss information getting around about ffdhow resize-sharpen.
Everyone seems to recommend doubling DVD resolution (720x480NTSC and 720x576PAL). This clean 2x multiple resize may be good idea if your display is 1440x960NTSC or 1440x1152PAL but there are not many displays of this exact resolution.
Now we have a dilemma. Since the display resolution will almost always be a non even multiple of the DVD resolution, is it better to have ffdshow resize to the exact display res or resize to a higher resolution and let the video card do a second resize down to the output/display resolution ?

We all know to output at our native display resolution to avoid scaling by the display/ projector. So why not avoid scaling by video card as well?

There are two ways to go here. Resize to desktop / display resolution or double DVD resolution. (Even something in between could work for you.) You will have to try both methods for your selves to find what works the best for your system. There is no perfect setup that everyone should be using, so there is not much point asking others for there settings, as what looks good to them may not look good to you.

For people with low resolution displays (Standard Definition TV’s etc) I still recommend resizing to higher then there display resolution and downscaling in video hardware so that the Luma – Croma Sharpen part of the resize filter can be used. Double DVD resolution should be ideal here, as it will be halved for display (even scaling multiple). But dont be afraid to try lower resize settings.

Don’t sweat it if your system cannot handle resize to double DVD res or more. Lower resize settings still work 90% as well. It’s not worth stutters in playback just to get the perfect resize.
Another point to consider here for people without super computers is that a more conservative resize could allow you to run other useful filters like Gradual Denoise, Dscaler Sharpen etc. It’s all about compromises.

The other reason to use ffdshow resize (apart from Luma – Croma Sharpening) is so that the Gradual Denoise filter can be use on the upscaled image. This allows higher denoise settings than could otherwise be used, and makes the Denoise filter more subtle and useful.
Remember that ffdshows filters are run in the order in which they appear in the filter list. From top to bottom. The order can be changed by dragging filters up or down the list.
Filters placed below Resize on the list will be acting on the Resized image. And with a much higher CPU overhead.
Descaler Sharpen filter in ffdshow works differently to Resize Sharpen and is recommended for bringing out fine details. But should be used before resize for best affect. It can introduce grain or noise if overused.
I like to use all three filters above. Resize Sharpen and Descaler Sharpen work differently and can be used to good affect together.
I generally don’t use the filters under the Sharpen tab in ffdshow (asharp,unsharp etc) as they are very harsh and artificial looking. But I have seen them put to good use on crappy, blurry TV’s.

As for how to setup ffdshow Resize.

1. Go to “Resize & aspect” menu. Check “Resize” in upper left-corner.
2. Check “Specify Size”
3. Enter required size (must be multiple of 16)
4. Check “Resize Always”
5. Check "no aspect ratio correction" (aspect ratio is adjusted by your player)
6. Go to “Settings” tab and adjust Luma and Croma sharpness as required. I also recommend changing resize “Method” to LANCZOS

Last, don’t forget to set your desktop resolution to your display device resolution.
People with CRT’s have some flexibility here. Digital displays generally do not.

Also note that Resize (and resize Method) cannot be enable and disable /changed on the fly.
You must close and restart your player. The Luma and Croma sharpen settings can be change on the fly, while you watch.


Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

kyrill,

OK - I get it now. It's more of an art than science as PQ is subjective.

I will experiment a bit more...thanks.

______
Rick

Owen, I think I'm crazy! :D I was very satisfied with my picture quality, but still used four hours trying to squeeze out a few percents extra. But that's not why I'm crazy. I'm crazy because I think it was worth it! I actually did manage to make a change.

Yesterday, when my wife went to bed at 11 P.M. (early for a Friday, but she was tired) I went down to the Cinema Inferno. I had in advance semi-prepared the server with an image of the HTPC (same motherboard, but slower 1800 processor versus 2600 on the HTPC and older Radeon 7000 versus 9500 on the HTPC). It of course took an extra half hour to get PowerStrip settings, but finally I got it to a point where a fast doublepress of the control button on my IR keyboard could change between the HTPC and the server without any change in scan frequency on my very well adjusted Barco Graphics 808. Then I did another half hour of finetuning convergence (it wasn't strictly necessary, but I could see a slight difference afterwards in some parts of the image). I finally did a bit of Girder magic so that one press of pause, play, stop, next and previous chapter would work at the same time on both computers. Then in with the same movie rip (full DVD rip played as DVD file in ZoomPlayer, of course), "The Lord of the Rings - Fellowship of the Ring". And let the games begin! Mind you most of the time I had no way of knowing what computer I was watching simply because I did a random number of jumps between them with doublepresses on control so I shouldn't fool myself. To see where I was I had to move the mouse into view since the IR keyboard/mouse combo was connected to only one of the computers. Also I did it without sound so I shouldn't be distracted.

First of all I could hardly see the difference between the two images when using Sonic filters and no ffdshow. There was a minute difference in very fine details, but nothing one would notice in practical viewing. I found that Gimli's beard and the buckle on Boromir's shoulder belt just behind him and to the left in the scene before the Fellowship leaves Rivendell was a very fine way to check for fine detail.

Then we go to the big filter shoot out. I have spent a few days (only a short time every day, though) getting WinDVD Platinum 5 working with ffdshow (registry settings, ffdshow from the 23rd of May and Abstract filter). And it turned out to pay off. There was a distinct (not large or huge, though) in detail and clarity between WinDVD and Sonic's Cinemaster. No doubt there. Sonic had something I would describe as "warmer colors", but nothing that couldn't be attained with hue in ffdshow.

Next step: Both computers running WinDVD's filters. And the duel of the video renderers. My XP1800 is not able to run WinDVD evenly in VMR 9, so that had to stay in overlay, while the XP2600 HTPC got the VMR setup. Surprise, surprise: Again not a huge, large or even big difference, but distinct. Again more fine detail in the VMR picture, and it seemed to have a tad less noise as well. And those are of course related since noise will mask fine details.

Then, to be able to compare apples and apples I went back to overlay on both computers and fired up ffdshow as well (with abstract as the VMO filter that enables ffdshow to work with WinDVD). And the big one: 1280x960 resize on the HTPC, 1024x768 on the server. My eyes was getting kind of crossed by then, at first I was unable to see what was best. So I took a short break and a Coke and went back. The difference was not even distinct anymore, but it was there. And the winner is...1024x768! Which incidentally is my desktop resolution. I was happy to see that, since it of course taxes the processor less.

The hour I had left (it was 2 A.M. by then, and I wanted to get some sleep - which was partly destroyed by our dog (and I partly destroyed the dog!)) went into fine adjustments with ffdshow. I ended up with settings that fits my projector perfectly, but may be to extreme especially for digital projectors. Here's my new setup:

Video filter: WinDVD Platinum 5
ffdshow resize: 1024x768, both luma & croma sharpen on 2
dScaler sharpness filter: 133
Picture properties: Luminance gain 140, offset 8, all gamma corrections off, hue 4, saturation 82

Also, for purists this will be to extreme no matter what projector or TV you're using, but I prefer colors on the bright side and a bit of extra sharpness. Now this taxes my 2600 a lot, I get an even 100 % on ffdshow's OSD, while Windows' task manager shows jumps between 80 & 100. But the picture and sound has no jumps or dropouts, and I have 100 % stable pans, so I'm not to worried. But I have increased the speed of the CPU fan... Weird, isn't it? Just like the room on a desk your processor needs will within a short amount of time hit the roof of the last upgrade. But I guess that's why Intel's reporting increased earnings... And if I keep doing this I'll increase AMD's profit by myself!

Burre, if you don't see the OSD you're probably not getting anywhere. It should be there. As for "libra" I don't know. But there's one sure fire test to se if ffdshow processes your image: under "Miscellaneous" there's the possibility to flip the image. If it doesn't flip, you're not using ffdshow.

owen:

Descaler Sharpen filter in ffdshow works differently to Resize Sharpen and is recommended for bringing out fine details. But should be used before resize for best affect. It can introduce grain or noise if overused.

This I don't understand.
the effect before resize wil be worse in relation to using the effect after resize. This is easy to see when using FLT_sharpness set on 256 before and after the resize filter with chroma and luma sharpen set to zero.
The grain (negative side effect) can be controlled with the slider. Using less than 128 will reduce the sharpening effect and its negative byproducts. So using Dscaler Sharpen after resize but in your case <128 (maybe much less?) will be smoother and less harsh.

Helas I cannot do this plus dscaler sharpening, my cpu oclocked 2500+ Barton is at least 30% too "small" and I wonder if the 3 gig pentium will ever handle it.

In some cases resize sharpening plus other ffdshow sharpening seems to be incompatible. each on its own can be pleasing ( but i still need a lot of tweaking,[ so many complex sliders]the efect is also interrelated to the PQ of the dvd) and effective, but not together.

Another thing on my calibrated 1360x1024 D-ILA projector I cannot see any PQ difference when exactly doubling the PAL or NTSC (finally possible with the Barton) or "sitting" slightly less under or above. I agree with yr opnion on this.

I learned the higher rescale the better and let the filters do their work in the upscaled domain.
I have no experience with "superscaling" so the graphic card must downscale to 1360x1024.
downscaling from1440 to 1360 is odd.

I let ffdshow upscale to 1360

Mastiff
You showed yr desktop resolution but what is res. of your Barco?

Mastiff, did you have to do anything special to get VMR to work with WinDVD filters in ZP? Try as I might, all I get is a blank screen with WinDVD filters, but Sonic filters work just fine (but don't look quite as good).

Any tips?

--Bill

Kyrill, the resolution is whatever I want it to be. Ever heard about CRT projectors? ;) Notice that I mention that the settings may be to harsh for "digital projectors" (read inferior LCD and DLP projectors (flamebaiter, me?)).

bblue, no, nothing special. The only thing is the registry settings mentioned in my post to Burre earlier in this thread. You might try that (DXVAPAl, er something like that). But you have to use the abstract DMO filter to make it work. You're probably doing that, though, since I believe ZP will crash every time you try to play if it's not used.

Hmmn, its weird that you find WinDVD to be better than Sonic. Have you tried PowerDVD? WinDVD for me has appalling black levels, its easily noticeable - do you experience this?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mastiff
[B]Kyrill, the resolution is whatever I want it to be. Ever heard about CRT projectors? ;) Notice that I mention that the settings may be to harsh for "digital projectors" (read inferior LCD and DLP projectors (flamebaiter, me?)).

I understood that comparing CRT with a digital pj is comparing apples to oranges.

I have seen both and the Contrast ratio of CRT is stunning compared to digital pj. black is really black and more shades in the shadow can be seen. However the downside is, it is less sharp with higher resolutions on a big screen. and it is not a subtle differerence.
In evaluating filter settings in ffdshow these apple and orange conditions will have an undeniable effect
owen: "I find that double DVD res gives a smoother or softer image. Good for digital displays but not so good for CRT."
The nice thing is on my D-ila it is not only smoother it is sharper as well (if a sharpening filter is used), the word soft does not describe the effect well

Goi, PowerDVD is not impressive in any way, and totally disqualifying if it's true what I've heard, that it won't work with ffdshow. As for the black level I guess that with a real projector it isn't a problem. ;) How can you hope to get anywhere in the same ballpark as real blacks with a 1400 ANSI LCD projector?

And I disagree that we're comparing apples and oranges when looking at a picture. When over all picture quality is what counts, I couldn't care less what makes it. If I found a digital projector in a price range I could afford (I paid around 5000 USD for my Barco Graphics 808) that gave me a better picture, I'd gladly dump the monster. But I haven't, and I don't think I will for a few years, at least. The big problem for me is black level. I lived with an LCD the first three years of my home theater and was annoyed with two things: The screendoor effect (I use a ten feet wide screen, masked down to about 8 feet, so tha old 800x600 was totally inadequate), but that is of course a lot less pronnounced on newer digital projectors, and the black level. I just can't tolerate a grey shine on the screen in scenes that are supposed to be totally black. In the beginningof Fellowship of the Ring, with The Lady of Light's voice, I don't want to be able to see anything! I actually had to put a piece of tape over the LED on my IR remote extender since it was to annoying. That is how dark I want it! :rolleyes:

Kyrill, I agree about the contrast and blacks, but I have not seen any LCD/DLP projector that has a picture on DVDs which is so much sharper that I feel like trading down my color and contrast for it. On a computer image, with computer letters, of course. That's what those things are made for. But I must admit that I'm not sure if I've ever seen a D-ila (it's a JVC thing, isn't it?). Anyway since I use my projector abot 90 % for movies and a little bit for FPS-gaming, I have no problems with clarity. Actually I can read extremely small letters on a desktop very clearly as well. :cool:

bblue, now I know what it is! I ran it with a ripped DVD (to the harddisk), and it works on that, but not on the same movie directly from a DVD. I suspect it's macrovision that creates the probolems. This was not good news, I'll have to invest in new harddisks for this! :cool:

Well, the projector might be a factor here, but the fact that the black levels on WinDVD sucks compared to either PowerDVD or Sonic Cineplayer says something about WinDVD.

Right now I'm finished with Fellowship of the Ring EE, and I think I can put a finger on what's different in WinDVD's dark scenes compared to Cinemaster: More detail. I saw things I wasn't able to see with the Cinemaster filters, and if that isn't good I don't know what is. As for black when black is needed, at the begining I was totally unable to see my hands in front of my face. If that ain't black, I don't know what is. When the rings have been given to the kings of men, it fades to black with one point of light in the upper middle part (between the two torches). Everything else in the image was totally black, but I could still see that point of light (the fade goes to black for only a split second).

Where I saw most difference (we're not talking scientific here, but perceived since I didn't do A-B comparishment today) was in the scene in Saruman's tower where he talks to Gandalf and then fights him. It seemed clearer than any time before.

And tomorrow night it's The Two Towers that's on in the Cinema Inferno. Yeah! I think we should just agree to disagree since I see no hope in reaching any thing else. But I hope you have as much joy from your system as I have from mine. If you do, it's money very well spent no matter what! :cool:

Mastiff,

Entertain post dude. :D Maybe you should give up your day job and take up writing. Must have taken you the rest of the night just to type it. :D
I’m glad I encourage you to try WinDVD and that you found it to be an improvement over Sonic. I try not to disseminate bad information. After you get some sleep you should compare your old setup with your new setup. The combination of several small improvements should put a smile on your dial.
Just when we think that we can’t squeeze any more quality out of our systems, some new toy, or info comes along and raises the bar that bit higher. Will it ever stop? :D

Your final settings are very similar to my own for a 1024x768 CRT display. But I don’t need to adjust anything in “picture properties”. My hardware is tweaked to be very close without needing any adjustment in ffdshow. I have no doubt that these settings would be way of the mark for a digital display. That’s why I like ffdshow and HTPC’s so much. You can adjust everything to be optimal for any display.
Are you using LANCZOS resize method? If not try it.

As for VMR9 v Overlay, I find that after adjusting picture settings to be as close to identical as possible, that there is very little difference between them on a Radeon 9500. Sometimes I prefer VMR9 and others Overlay, so I stick with Overlay and be done with it.

It’s too early to tell if there is a definitive answer to the question of which is better resize. Double DVD resolution or desktop resolution. I need more feedback from others before I would comment. At least your findings concur with mine. I feel that the people with digital displays may prefer double DVD res for displays under 1440x960NTSC or 1440x1152 PAL. For those with HD displays (1920x1080). Desktop res sounds like the best option as it avoids hardware scaling. You will need a fast PC for that though.
As long as people test both options and don’t assume that double DVD res is always best. It is not.

Are you a native Norwegian? Your English is outstanding. How did you get so fluent?

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Kyrill,
I find on my CRT display that there is little or no advantage to using Descaler sharpen filter after resize. I only mention the grain problem because some people tent to complain about the filter introducing noise or grain. They should use a lower setting. Dscaler sharpen filter, though very useful, is very CPU demanding. To use it after resize with Gradual denoise also after resize is too much, even for a 3.3Gig P4.

I have to setups that I use without problems on my P4 system using 1024x768 desktop:

Descaler Sharpen 135
Resize to 1440x1152 Luma + Croma 1.7 LANCZOS
Gradual Denoise 35-40
In that order.

Or:
Descaler Sharpen 135
Resize 1024x768 Luma + Croma 1.7 LANCZOS
Denoise3d 1.0, 1.0, 5 (from the new ffdshow)

Dscaler Sharpen can not be used after resize in either of these combinations. Even on my P4 2.8C overclocked to 3.3Gig on a 942Mhz front side bus with 1Gig Corsair duel channel DDR.
I can run Descaler Sharpen after a 1024x768 resize without denoise, but I can not find any advantage in doing so.

Remember, I am the person who pioneered the use of resize-sharpening in ffdshow and the use of filters after resizing to give a more subtle affect.


Goi,
As for WinDVD, I have no problem with back levels. Besides, black levels and everything else can be adjusted to anything you want in ffdshow. So what is the problem?

I have never tried the new Power DVD so I cannot comment on its quality. If it does not work with Zoom Player and ffdshow, I don’t want it.

Bblue,
VMR9 works for me without any special tricks. I just don’t bother with it.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Thanks for the praise, Owen! I actually do write for a living, only I write stuff others have written before me. I'm a translator. And yes, I'm a native norwegian, but then the occupation explains the languague skills...or perhaps it's the other way around! It didn't take me more than about 20 minute to write it down, and that was nothing after all those hours of testing.

I will test different resize methods one of these days, and you'll hear from me then. As for picture properties I found that adjusting them in ffdshow for some reason or another gave a result I liked better than when I did the same thing in overlay properties. My hardware can be adjusted only for contrast and brightness. Color balance - hue and color saturation is locked on Barco CRT projectors at 6500 K (and a few other lock points, none of them are useful) when you don't use S-Video or composite, so I have to do that on the computer. I'm not about to feed my Barco composite or S-Video! ;) Another thing is that if I set brightness to high on my Barco (instead of adjusting it on the computer side of things) it will wash out the beautiful, deep blacks that makes me such an avid CRT fan. When set on 55-60 (which would be the correct setting with picture properties on 0) I can actually see the shape of my hands in front of me when Galadriel speaks at the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring. We can't have that, can we? So I stick to 45 on that and raise brightness on the HTPC. Much like with my receiver and equalizers: I keep individual speaker volumes very high on the receiver and low on the equalizers, since that will add a lot less noise (hissing noise) than keeping the speaker volumes lower and increasing the volume on the equalizers.

And I to decided to stick with overlay yesterday, I'm too lazy to rip every DVD I want to watch before I watch it! Hope Intervideo will get that working some time. I have no doubt that it's Macrovision that's behind that problem.

Have you seen the black level problems Goi is having with WinDVD filters? I see nothing of that sort, but to make 100 % sure I'm going to do another test, this time with Sonic filters versus WinDVD filters and the rest of the settings identical on the two HTPC's. I will do the resize method testing at the same time (but of course that will be with the same WinDVD filters on both). :cool:

Is there any way to reduce the gamma or brightness in WinDVD? I suspect that the default settings are too bright, because the colors are washed out and the black levels are pretty bad to me. This contradicts Mastiff and Owen's results with WinDVD.

btw I use WinDVD5.

It is a FFDshow FAQ thread or what?... i mean it is not about projectors :)

My questions are:
1. Where is new versions of ffdshow ? it is still alpha :-\
2. Where can i get DScaler filter for ffdshow - FLT_*.DLL ?

Thanks folks.

Aga, install DScaler 4.01 and it has FLT_ filter... great.

But they are not usefull...

logo killer didn't work....

Originally posted by Owen
Kyrill,
I find on my CRT display that there is little or no advantage to using Descaler sharpen filter after resize. I only mention the grain problem because some people tent to complain about the filter introducing noise or grain. They should use a lower setting. OK . But putting D sharpen before resize and mentioning a warning for grain was strange to me, as you will have less grain after resize. The reason that dS sharpen demands so much cpu time was not mentioned. For that reason I do not use Ds sharpen Dscaler sharpen filter, though very useful, is very CPU demanding. To use it after resize with Gradual denoise also after resize is too much, even for a 3.3Gig P4.

I have to setups that I use without problems on my P4 system using 1024x768 desktop:

Descaler Sharpen 135
Resize to 1440x1152 Luma + Croma 1.7 LANCZOS
Gradual Denoise 35-40
In that order.

Or:
Descaler Sharpen 135
Resize 1024x768 Luma + Croma 1.7 LANCZOS
Denoise3d 1.0, 1.0, 5 (from the new ffdshow)

I will try yr combis tonight but with 1280x1152 as my o clocked Barton 2500 cannot carry all that weight with 3 filters, even with my Zalman Wb2 water cooling :)
(from the new ffdshow)?? after 23 may?

Dscaler Sharpen can not be used after resize in either of these combinations. Even on my P4 2.8C overclocked to 3.3Gig on a 942Mhz front side bus with 1Gig Corsair duel channel DDR.
I can run Descaler Sharpen after a 1024x768 resize without denoise, but I can not find any advantage in doing so.
Do you still need dnoise also with the new year 2000 and later DVDs? The transfer to DVD is on most dvds clean and grainless
Remember, I am the person who pioneered the use of resize-sharpening in ffdshow and the use of filters after resizing to give a more subtle affect.
Who wants to forget? :)



Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Goi, I don't think it's possible *in* WinDVD, but you can do it via ffdshow. That should give you the same results. :cool:

Mastif,
I am lucky enough to be able to get everything working just right with Overlay controls at default settings. :D
You are correct that ffdshow Picture Properties are a better way to adjust then Overlay controls. Especially for Gamma.
I’m a lover of CRT blacks as well. It’s going to take some convincing to get me to change to a digital display. I have my eye on the LCOS technology. It shows promise.



Kyrill,
I find even the best DVD source can do with some denoise. Mpeg2 is fare from perfect, and I don’t like the artifacts.
I also watch recordings of digital satellite, also Mpeg2, but much more highly compressed. Denoise3d is very good at removing the artifacts.


Here is a link to DScaler for those that need it:

http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/downloads.htm

Here is the latest ffdshow. 18th August 2003

http://athos.leffe.dnsalias.com/

This build is VERY alpha and buggy. I cannot use this or the previous 11th July build for DVD playback with WindDVD fiters in Zoom Player. Audio is way out of sync.
I use it for Divx and Xvid playback because of the new Denoise3d filter. It works very well for that.
I wrote a batch file to swap between the May 23 version and latest build so I can use the new build for Divx and Xvid and the old for DVD’s.
You have been warned.



Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

The audio goes out of sync on the 5-23 build as well, but reclock keeps it in check. :cool:

Mastiff,
I have NEVER had out of sync audio with any version of ffdshow until now.
And I have three systems running ffdshow. P4 notebook, Athlon desktop and my P4 HTPC and have used every version ever released.
When I say sound is out of sync, I mean VERY out of sync, with stutters in video as well. And that is with no filters running.
Works fine with Divx and Xvid video though. :confused:
I have not got to the bottom of this problem yet.
If someone gets the new version to work with WinDVD 5 video filters I would like to know.
I'll have another go at it tonight.

Had a nasty storm here last night which brought down many trees, and cut the power supply to many homes including mine. If my car had been parked in its normal place, outside my house, it would have been cut in half by a fallen tree. :eek: Waste of a perfectly good Lexus. It would have made both the insurance company and I very unhappy.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Owen, thanks for sharing that link of the latest ffdshow builds. I was wondering why they haven't been coming out with newer released on the sourceforge page. How'd you get hold of that new page? Also, I'm wondering why the 0523 build doesn't show up there either. Is this ffdshow or ffdshow-alpha?

Edit: I've just installed the latest 0816 ffdshow build on my main system(not HTPC), and this one comes with separate configuration menus for general, raw video and audio setup. So far I've only tried playing a few video files I have. I experience noticeable audio/video sync issues only on a couple of files with AC3 encoded audio, and only when I let ffdshow take over the audio processing intead of my other default AC3 filter. Otherwise, I'm not getting any audio/video sync problems here...at least not yet from my limited exposure to this new build.

btw my main system is a P4 2.4B@2.8GHz, 1GB PC3200 memory and a Radeon 9700 Pro.

Zoom Player + PowerDVD 5 + ffdshow
My following graphs give ConnectPin error:
Pins did not accept connection "Out -> Input0"! Line 18
ConnectPin(ffdshow MPEG 4 Video Decoder,Out,Overlay Mixer,Input0)

Can some one tell me what I need to do to fix?
I am running XP+ZP 3.20 beta, ffdshow 2003 version with PowerDVD 5.

DefineFilter(clvsd.ax)
DefineFilter(claud.ax)
DefineFilter(ffdshow.ax)
LoadFilter({70E102B0-5556-11CE-97C0-00AA0055595A},Video Renderer)
LoadFilter({79376820-07D0-11CF-A24D-0020AFD79767},Default DirectSound Device)
LoadFilter({CD8743A1-3736-11D0-9E69-00C04FD7C15B},Overlay Mixer)
LoadFilter({9BC1B780-85E3-11D2-98D0-0080C84E9C39},Cyberlink Audio Decoder)
LoadFilter({6E8D4A20-310C-11D0-B79A-00AA003767A7},Line21 Decoder)
LoadFilter({9BC1B781-85E3-11D2-98D0-0080C84E9C39},Cyberlink Video/SP Decoder)
LoadFilter({9B8C4620-2C1A-11D0-8493-00A02438AD48},DVD Navigator)
LoadFilter({04FE9017-F873-410E-871E-AB91661A4EF7},ffdshow MPEG 4 Video Decoder)
ConnectPin(DVD Navigator,Video,Cyberlink Video/SP Decoder,Video In)
ConnectPin(DVD Navigator,AC3,Cyberlink Audio Decoder,In)
ConnectPin(DVD Navigator,SubPicture,Cyberlink Video/SP Decoder,SubPicture In)
ConnectPin(Cyberlink Audio Decoder,Out,Default DirectSound Device,Audio Input pin (rendered))
ConnectPin(Cyberlink Video/SP Decoder,Video Out,ffdshow MPEG 4 Video Decoder,In)
ConnectPin(Cyberlink Video/SP Decoder,~Closed Caption Out,Line21 Decoder,In)
ConnectPin(ffdshow MPEG 4 Video Decoder,Out,Overlay Mixer,Input0)
ConnectPin(Line21 Decoder,Out,Overlay Mixer,Input2)
ConnectPin(Overlay Mixer,Output,Video Renderer,In)


__________________
Regards
Tushar Bhavsar

Why on earth are you still running DVDGraphs? The whole big point of ZoomPlayer 3+ is graphless playback! Also, PowerDVD does not work with ffdshow, as far as I know. :cool:

FYI regarding TheaterTek and FFdshow:

I had been using the latest FFdshow release with my ATI Radeon LE (and Cat 3.4 drivers) without problem...

When I upgraded to a Radeon 9600, I couldn't get FFdshow to work on the secondary display (Theatertek 1.50.46 would lockup under XP Pro SP1). I tried many things to no avail when at last resort I installed an older version of FFdshow (January alpha version 20030103.exe
)... and low and behold it worked!

Hope this saves others some trouble

Eiffel

Mastiff,
Also, PowerDVD does not work with ffdshow, as far as I know.
It works well!, but not with every DVD.... and may be only with NTSC DVDs from hard drive...

tbhavsar,
Raw mode in ffdshow is enabled?

But how about PAL DVDs? :cool:

Mastiff,bblue, now I know what it is! I ran it with a ripped DVD (to the harddisk), and it works on that, but not on the same movie directly from a DVD.Just tonight I retried VMR9 vs Overlay with the WinDVD 5 filters and it worked. But after reading your message (also just tonight) I realized that all the testing I did with it was from HD. I didn't go back and try the disc versions. Will do that later and see if we're seeing the same problem.

A couple of general comments, I was surprised tonight to notice quite a difference between VMR9 and Overlay using the same settings for each. In the past I have not noticed much difference and what difference there was was in favor of Overlay. Tonight, however, VMR9 seemed to have a clearly wider range from the detail in blacks, detail in whites and richness of colors. It also seemed quicker somehow -- sideways pans were not as jerky. At least that's my impression tonight, I'll retry this again over the next few days. This is with a Radeon 9800 Pro, MP-1 RGB output board and a 2.8Ghz P4, with ZP Pro, WinDVD 5 filters, ffdshow, dscaler and reclock. Some of the video stages in the projector have been improved with wider bandwidth modifications from Mike Parker, so maybe this is allowing me to see the more subtle differences.

For Owen, I'm mystified about your ffdshow comments earlier. First, on my setup at least (ehome 9501LC, 110" screen) the dscaler filter set at 40-80 (depending on source) AFTER resize to 1280x720 with Lanczos sharpening Luma at 2 and color at 1.7 seems to blow away any combination I have found with Dscaler placed before resize. I follow this with gradual denoise between 10-20. On a stock 2.8Ghz P4 Intel board processor is at about 55% in this configuration. ffdshow 030523 and dscaler 417. Only when I resize upwards to 1920x1080 do I run out of cpu. I forget where the break is, perhaps around 1700x or so.

Using dscaler sharpen above 96 (worst case) just kills detail by over-enhancing it, by itself, or after the ffdshow resize. Placing it before resize seems to intensify the effect and lower detail even further.

You'd think that with similar hardware and processing software you would get comparable results, unless the display device is somehow adding its own character to the resulting signal.

Weird.

--Bill

I guess it's the MP mod, then. Because the difference between overlay and VMR9 was, as I have stated, not by any means large on my system. But I will say that the difference is probably a lot more significant for those poor souls who has a Geforce instead of our Radeons. :cool:

Mastiff,
first of all you need 5.23 version (last from sourceforge web site).. and enable Raw Video.. i think all know it :)
What i tested. ZP3.20pro+ffdshow+A/V Cyberlink PowerDVD 5 XP+Reclock

Tears of the Sun - NTSC - works well
the Chick (Rob Shnayder...?) - NTSC - works well
Gladiator - R5 release - PAL - zplayer hang up... problem in clvsd.ax
Vidoqc - R5 release - PAL - zplayer hang up... problem in clvsd.ax
Samsung DVD TEST - R5 - PAL - zplayer hang up... problem in clvsd.ax

With Intervideo Video decoder NTSC DVDs works well with ffdshow... but can freeze in menu (tears of the sun).

With Pal zplayer just freeze, oh hang up... problem in ffdshow.ax
but you can use Decoder coupled with intervideo sharpen

Check it.

Aha. That explains it. I knew there was something that didn't work with PowerDVD. And 90 % of my DVDs are PAL, so there's not much help in it for me, then. Also I let my kids use the HT alone sometimes, and I can't have anything that there's a chance may lock up. But I haven't had one lockup in WinDVD after I made it work. I have seen three movies so far (Lord of the Rings FotR and TT and an episode of Black Adder) and it's working flawlessly for now. :cool:

Originally posted by Madsly
Mastiff,
Also, PowerDVD does not work with ffdshow, as far as I know.
It works well!, but not with every DVD.... and may be only with NTSC DVDs from hard drive...

tbhavsar,
Raw mode in ffdshow is enabled?

Mastiff,

Thanks for your reply;

Yes, Raw mode in FFDSHOW enabled;I show some post to add 'AllowAllRenders' in the Registry for the ConnectPin error I am getting; Also something to do with DWORD; I do not know all these; Any idea?

How about ZoomPlayer + WindDVD 4 + FFDShow combination?
I want improve PQ thru FFDSHOW by trying various combinations.

Powerdvd (n combi with ffdshow)won't work with PAL..
Have you guys try to duplicate in the PowerDVD context the registry setting that WindVD is asking every time you switch from NTSC to PAL and reversed?
Does peeking in the registry entries of PowerDVD not show how PowerDVD handles these switching?
As I do not need to have PowerDVD I cannot do it.

Tushar
Zp + WinDVD + ffdshow seems to be the favourite choice over Cineplayer or PowerDvD.
And probably all are eagerly awaiting the next version of NVidia's DVD software player which will accept ffdshow and will not lose its sharpness with hardware acc. disabled

Kyrill,

Thanks for your reply;
I will try ZP+windDVD+FFDSHOW tonight.

Eh...hold on a second, Kyrill! Tushar said that he has WInDVD 4! That's not the favoured filter over Cineplayer by a longshot. I tried that long time ago. You have to use at least 4.5, but preferably 5 to surpass the PQ of Cinemaster filters. :cool:

-------- Fast FFDshow Filter Switcher -----------
Oh, boys and girls lets do a fast switcher for differeòå versions... so...
install For DVD - ffdshow-20030523.exe -> copy all .ax/.dll to .\FF-DVD\
install For Divx - ffdshow-20030816.exe -> copy all .ax/.dll to .\FF-Divx\

libmpeg2_ff.dll & libmplayer.dll are the same in both version...

Then in .\FF-Divx\ dir rename:
libmplayer.dll -> libmplayer-divx.dll
libavcodec.dll -> libavcodec-divx.dll
ffdshow.ax -> ffdshow-divx.ax
in .\FF-DVD\ dir do the same...

Then copy renamed files into C:\Program Files\ffdshow

Create Bat/Cmd files like this:
----
ForDivx.bat
@copy /Y ffdshow-divx.ax ffdshow.ax
@copy /Y libmplayer-divx.dll libmplayer.dll
@copy /Y libavcodec-divx.dll libavcodec.dll
----
ForDVD.bat
@copy /Y ffdshow-dvd.ax ffdshow.ax
@copy /Y libmplayer-dvd.dll libmplayer.dll
@copy /Y libavcodec-dvd.dll libavcodec.dll
----

... test it.... it`s usefull

ps Do you need it?... may be someone do better switcher.

Originally posted by Mastiff
Eh...hold on a second, Kyrill! Tushar said that he has WInDVD 4! That's not the favoured filter over Cineplayer by a longshot. I tried that long time ago. You have to use at least 4.5, but preferably 5 to surpass the PQ of Cinemaster filters. :cool:

YEs, my fault. Thanks Mastiff. I assumed/tookfor granted that those in search for the holy grail will use the latest drivers/updates unless stated otherwise (like Owen's warning to NOT use the July or August version of ffdshow for DVD watching but stick with the may version or earlier).

There is no real perceivable difference between winDVD 4,5 and 5, but a good difference between 4.0 and 4,5.

bblue,
About Dscaler Sharpen. I found that using Ds sharpen on a low setting before resize was about the same as Ds sharpen at a high setting after resize. So I use it before resize and save the CPU for other things.
If this is not the case for you, it just goes to show how different displays can affect your results.
I am surprised that you can see any noticeable sharpening affect with Ds sharpen set 40-80 after resize to 1280x720. It must be very subtle.
Are you certain that Dscaler sharpen is doing anything?
I can only just see an affect with it set to 80 after a 1024x768 resize. I have to use a much higher setting for it to be very noticeable.

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

I think this was asked but I'll still ask it. If powerstrip is being used will it work with ffdshow? Should I disable powerstrip I just don't see the diffrence. Please help I need it.

One question...... Can I make my DVDs look better on my 50" Sammy DLP with a 1.2Ghz Athlon T-bird? Granted, I cannot do some of the things others are doing, but will it make a significant difference?

rob47v, PowerStrip does not affect ffdshow in any way. I use it on my system.

awilki01 (where do you guys get these names from?) there's unfortunately not much you can do with a 1,2 gig. If you go up to an XP1800 you can resize to 1024x768 and do resize sharpen, but not much more. Sorry, but if you want to get more out of your system, you will need to upgrade your computer hardware.

Owen,I am surprised that you can see any noticeable sharpening affect with Ds sharpen set 40-80 after resize to 1280x720. It must be very subtle.
Are you certain that Dscaler sharpen is doing anything?
I can only just see an affect with it set to 80 after a 1024x768 resize. I have to use a much higher setting for it to be very noticeable.Oh yes, it is clearly doing things.

I think the degree of perceived effect for any of these enhancers or smoothers is going to have a lot to do with the display size and its ability to resolve detail. On my 110" screen and with WinDVD decoders as a source, the resize and sharpen section do an excellent job of clarifying an image without disproportionately bringing forward ringing and other compression artifacts. The WinDVD filter is clearly superior in this regard and is enhanced by the resizing. What Ds does after that at the low settings is bring forth more subtle fine detail, textures, etc.. There's a point at which the compression ghosting starts to come forward, and I keep it right below that, which ends up between about 40 and 80. I don't look at edge detail so much as inner detail of objects -- that is very hard to discern at smaller screen sizes.

I haven't seen PowerDVD's 2.55 decoder yet as a comparison, but otherwise have all the decoders and have tried a variety of configurations with decoders and effects. Sonic probably comes the closest to WinDVD but it isn't all that close. It misses a lot of inner detail that simply cannot be recovered later. No matter what I try ( and I try a lot of different combinations) the WinDVD, resize, ds, soften combination always seem to be the most believable. But I'm quite sure that different combinations will look better on certain sizes and types of screens -- not necessarily the most accurate, but the most fun to watch.

--Bill

bblue,
“I think the degree of perceived effect for any of these enhancers or smoothers is going to have a lot to do with the display size and its ability to resolve detail.”

Absolutely.
Viewing distance is important as well. 50” screen at 10’ is the same as 100” screen at 20’. Or a 20” screen at 4’. How fare do you sit from the screen?


“On my 110" screen and with WinDVD decoders as a source, the resize and sharpen section do an excellent job of clarifying an image without disproportionately bringing forward ringing and other compression artifacts.”

Yay, another satisfied customer.

“What Ds does after that at the low settings is bring forth more subtle fine detail, textures, etc.. There's a point at which the compression ghosting starts to come forward, and I keep it right below that, which ends up between about 40 and 80. I don't look at edge detail so much as inner detail of objects”

Is it not possible for you to attain this effect using DS sharpen before resize, but with much lower settings?

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Owen and bblue,

Can you tell me which FFDSHOW version you use?
I am getting ConnectPin error with ZP3.20 beta 2+WinDVD 4+FFDSHOW.

Okay Im new to this program so bare with me please, Im using powerstrip theatertek dvd with ffdshow program, its wonderful I love the pic improvement that it gives, but Im lossing pic size. my screen is 96" wide, powerstip config of 1280x720 @60hz, when ffdshow is used the pic shrinks a bit to about 94" whats happening? Just incase someone asks I cannot increase the pic anymore, not good for the raster already at 92% wide.

Owen,Viewing distance is important as well. 50” screen at 10’ is the same as 100” screen at 20’. Or a 20” screen at 4’. How fare do you sit from the screen?Close, 9-10'. While your distance comparisons are certainly valid I don't think it's quite that cut and dry. The amount of detail that, say, a 20" screen is able to produce is less than that of a 40" screen, so while the size and distance ratio is exact, detail produced isn't. Sort of like looking at a 8x10 photograph, and then the same negative printed to 3x5. You can get as close as you want, but some of the detail seen in the 8x10 just isn't there in the 3x5.

On a large screen projector, mid-size RPTV or smaller direct-view set, it's not only the size differences but also the way in which a given smaller screen set handles details that are below its physical resolution capabilities.“What Ds does after that at the low settings is bring forth more subtle fine detail, textures, etc.. There's a point at which the compression ghosting starts to come forward, and I keep it right below that, which ends up between about 40 and 80. I don't look at edge detail so much as inner detail of objects”

Is it not possible for you to attain this effect using DS sharpen before resize, but with much lower settings?You know, I haven't tried this recently. Last time I did several weeks ago I was not able to get the same level of inner detail with Ds first. It was close but there was something about the edges of objects that got out of whack. I'll try it again over the next few viewings and see what it looks like. I also want to take a look at the latest WinDVD filters, as well as PowerDVD 2.55 filters (with ZP Pro, of course).


tbhavsar, I'm using ffdshow 030523 version and have found it to be quite stable.


robv47, the number position of the width control doesn't necessarily mean much, it's how wide the image is on your tube faces. If the image is already really close to the tube face edges it means your projector is mounted a little too close to the screen. But since you say it's ok until you use ffdshow, you can either increase the width with the width control, or in the adjustments in powerstrip. Different sources and processing will affect projected width by an inch or two, and movies vary that much by themselves. I usually just overscan by about that much and don't worry about it.

Also, you might find better performance on movies with your vertical at 72hz. Use 60hz only for all-video (no film used anywhere) presentations.

--Bill

Weird how ffdshow can react at times. I had a CPU problem (with only 1024x768 resize, dScaler sharpness and picture properties). Everything was at 100 %, and I thouhgt it was weird since it's an AMD XP2600+. Then I tried to move PP after DS instead of before, and that took care of it!

Also I have moderated my dScaler sharpness a bit, I found out that in some scenes my setting (133) was giving a grainy look, but going down to around 80 fixed that. If this rapid increas in picture quality continues my movies will be true 3D within a year or so! :D

Hi Mastiff,

presume you are using the windvd filters, if so which ones? also are you using ati drivers.

Mastiff: What are you using in Picture Properties?

Mastiff & Bill - Thanks for your reply;

Yesterday I tried ZP3.2Beta 2 + winDVD 4(Video) + PowerDVD5 (Audio)+FFDSHOW (20021213 version) with all other steps mention in ‘'http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?s=&threadid=226357&perpage=348' thread’

I still get the ConnectPin error for Video;

I am still wondering, DO I NEED TO ADD ALLOWALLRENDERERS registration key; I do not know how to do that.

1. How to find HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE for WinDVD 4 or PowerDVD

2. Do I need to do following STEP 7 of 'http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?s=&threadid=226357&perpage=348' thread;

STEP 7. Go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Sonic\CineMaster DS DVD\2.5\VideoDecoder and look for the variable FORCEPROGRESSIVE. Double click this entry and change the value data to 1. Also add a new DWORD Value named ALLOWALLRENDERERS and set the value to 1 also. (Also add, HardCodeForPal=1 if people are playing a PAL DVD). Close the registry editor.

Please help;

S.Morris, I use WinDVD 5 platinum. And I'm on Catalyst 3.6.

JBlacklow, from top to bottom: 140, 8, all gammas off, 4 & 82.

Tushar, you're talking about the steps to get Cinemaster working. Look further up in this thread, I explained to to Burre how do do this. :cool:

Mastiff,

Thanks for your direction; I will try that tonight.

I was wondering what options in ffdshow you guys use? Can you recommend to me what ones are most important and which ones you would use if you had unlimited CPU power?

What settings would you use?

Also... I was wondering what DVD software decoder is know for the best image quality when used with FFDshow and zoomplayer?

Thanks!

If you hadn't had all those posts behind you I'd be tempted to call you a newbie on the forum! :D Asking questions without looking a few pages back. Where have I seen that before? Oh yes, I did it myself a week ago! :o If you look at the previous page you'll see a rather thorough shotout I had with WinDVD and Cinemaster (the two best filters), and there's a lot of advice about settings of ffdshow in the last 3-4 pages. Basically WinDVD resized to your desktop size (which probably should be your display devices native size if you use a digital projector) is the answer. :cool:

Hi

Any one using the new 5.1 Windvd filters

Tushar, you should really upgrade your ffdshow to 20030523. I've never had consistent performance with any of the earlier ones, with strange errors and the like.

Vaggeto, WinDVD Platinum filter versions (most any of them) outperform all for detail and accuracy. For best performance use all software decode (turn off hardware options in WinDVD's video tab). In ZP Pro you need to include the DMO Abstract filter with the settings at zero. In ffdshow, use resize to your native screen size and with the lanczos sharpening filter, and dscaler sharpening at between 40 and 80. Owen swears that placing dscaler before resize is the way to go, but I use it after resize with good results. Try it both ways and judge for yourself.

s.morris, I just started using the 5.1 filters (was 5.0, and 4.5xx before that) and they seem just fine.

Owen and others, I may have mentioned before that VMR9 looked promising to me recently, compared to overlay. Using software decoding and WinDVD filters, I definitely ruled it out as a contender. So far, every time I've tried to switch to VMR9 on any filter it is noticeably a softer image, and has less depth of field. Veiled, may be another way to describe it. I'm not really sure why that would be...

--Bill

Does anyone have any problems with ffdshow and the dscaler deinterlacing filter? ZP consistently crashes when I use this combination. I've tried it on 0523 as well as the July and August builds.

Mastiff;

Thanks for your help; after running those .reg files from your prev. post, I was able run ffdshow first time;

I do not see any significant PQ improvement; It sounds like I have to play around more; I have P4 HT 2.6C CPU; Keeping Resize & Sharp on the top frezes the image; I get only sound so I dropped it for now...

Bill,
Thanks for you info; I have 20030523 version of FFDSHOW and I will upgrade this weekend.

Please post your favourate FFDSHOW setting when you get a chance.

Have a great weekend.

Originally posted by Mastiff
If you hadn't had all those posts behind you I'd be tempted to call you a newbie on the forum! :D Asking questions without looking a few pages back. Where have I seen that before? Oh yes, I did it myself a week ago! :o If you look at the previous page you'll see a rather thorough shotout I had with WinDVD and Cinemaster (the two best filters), and there's a lot of advice about settings of ffdshow in the last 3-4 pages. Basically WinDVD resized to your desktop size (which probably should be your display devices native size if you use a digital projector) is the answer. :cool:

LOL, yah.. I do that a lot and come up with nothing... and when I saw 10 pages and the first page didn't have much, I figured I'd just ask. We all get lazy sometimes :-)

In your FFDshow settings, do you guys have the "Process Whole Image" box at the top checked for everything you're using? I'm assuming so, but if that's not the way it should be done, let us know.

Right now I'm running (in this order):
Resize @ 960x540 (1HD's native rez, same as PS) w/ Lanczos, Luma 1.5/Chroma 1.0
Dscaler filter-FLT_Sharpness (from bbqkl's page, not the version that came with DScaler) @ 80 w/Fast Memory Access checked
Blur & NR-Gradual Denoise @ 35

This is WinDVD 5.1+Sonic/AC3Filter (testing)+FFDshow 05232003+Reclock 1.1

ETA: What are your AC3Filter settings, Mastiff? For right now, I just changed it to SPDIF output and left everything else at what it was. Is it better than using Sonic audio decoders?

I don't think the "process whole image" setting does anything good, I belive it makes ffdshow work on the "black bars" in widescreen movies, but I might be wrong.

Sonic has given me problems with dropouts every now and then. I have used PowerDVD most of the time, bur I recently found out that it gives me more uneven pans (I think that's what's called microstutter). AC3 filter is better in that respect. And I use standard settings from the installation, I believe. Direct sound output. :cool:

Hmmm...I remember somewhere (Owen?) it was mentioned that specifically turning on "process whole image" was necessary. If not, then maybe that would help with the 100% processor usage (but no A/V stutter!).

What about deinterlacing?

I've been very pleased using just resize (1440x720) with chroma&luma sharpening.

However, I've discovered that with some discs, I really need to turn ffdshow off and go "hardware mode" because the deinterlacing is so bad. (bad flags maybe) Any fix for this?

Thanks.

Cary

Originally posted by bblue
Tushar, you should really upgrade your ffdshow to 20030523. I've never had consistent performance with any of the earlier ones, with strange errors and the like.

Vaggeto, WinDVD Platinum filter versions (most any of them) outperform all for detail and accuracy. For best performance use all software decode (turn off hardware options in WinDVD's video tab). In ZP Pro you need to include the DMO Abstract filter with the settings at zero. In ffdshow, use resize to your native screen size and with the lanczos sharpening filter, and dscaler sharpening at between 40 and 80. Owen swears that placing dscaler before resize is the way to go, but I use it after resize with good results. Try it both ways and judge for yourself.

s.morris, I just started using the 5.1 filters (was 5.0, and 4.5xx before that) and they seem just fine.

Owen and others, I may have mentioned before that VMR9 looked promising to me recently, compared to overlay. Using software decoding and WinDVD filters, I definitely ruled it out as a contender. So far, every time I've tried to switch to VMR9 on any filter it is noticeably a softer image, and has less depth of field. Veiled, may be another way to describe it. I'm not really sure why that would be...

--Bill


"With In ZP Pro you need to include the DMO Abstract filter with the settings at zero"...

I was wondering if this is the DMO_V Intervideo Abstract option under filters??
When I use this I get a VERY screwed up picture... also when I go to filter properties nothing comes up. Any input?

Also.. where do I get the dscaler sharpening plugin? I installed dscaler and it still doesn't give me any plugins in ZP.

Thanks

Yeah, go to bbq's webpage and get the abstract.reg file. Or simply open WinDVD, play a movie, go to video effect (or whatever it's called in english, you've got it on the far left of the user interface part of WinDVD, select Abstract and move the slider to the left. It's actually supposed to look screwy, that's what's abstract.

As for the dScaler plugin you'll need to find it with the box that you'll get from that page in ffdshow. Just like opening any other file. :cool:

I do not have that option in my version of WinDVD... I will look into upgrading.

I don't have the dscaler plugin... I open up scalker.. and go to the plugin area of settings, and it's empty. Where do I get it?

Also, what is bbw's webpage? I've never heard of that term here before.

Thanks for the help!

To the best of my knowledge “Process whole image” does what Mastiff has said.
It makes ffdshow work on the "black bars" top and bottom” not very useful.
I can’t see any reason to use it.

“What about deinterlacing?”

You could try the deinterlace filters in ffdshow.
I like the “5 tap low pass” and “Median” filters best.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Madsly,
Thanks for posting you batch files for swapping ffdshow versions.
I had already done this myself so that I could use the new alpha build to view Divx and Xvid video. I like the new denoise3d filter.


I still can’t get the new alpha to work with WinDVD5 video filter. Sound is way out of sync even with the new audio processing functions disabled.
So I have to swap versions back to the older 5/23 build to view DVD’s.
Some of you may wish to try Madsly’s batch files to swap versions.
I also swap ffdshow’s registry entries when I swap versions. I have exported .reg files to do this. It may not be required but it saves me having to change ffdshow settings manually between Divx and DVD setups.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Well.. after deciding to uninstall all of my video related files... and reinstalling them... I cannot get Zoom player to work with ffdshow... at all.
No matter what I try from people who have had problems I get the error "pins did not accept" The only way I can get a DVD to play is to disable FFDshow. One thing I will note about what I couldn't try and fix were ffdshow settings. I noticed some people recommend chaning ffdshow settings... but this is impossible for me unless it works and I can right click and choose it from filter properties. Is there another way?

Vaggeto, as for the dScaler plugin you need to open the "open file" box in ffdshow, under dScaler, and go to the directory where you installed dScaler. :cool:

Thanks Mastiff.. as soon as I'm able to get ffdshow working.. I'll do that.

So far I have reinstalled WinDVD and powerDVD 2-3 times each, I've updated to directX 9b, reinstalled zoomplayer about 10 times, reinstalled ffdshow about 15 times trying different versions, with/withuot post processing etc...

With the 5-20 very of ffdshow I got close to it working. With windvd it would say "Access violation at address 1C24F1B3 in module qdvd.dll. Read of address 00000008"
and with powerDVD I get "Floating point division by zero"

With every other version of ffdshow I get pins did not accept error.

BTW.. I search for the qdvd.dll file and it's not on my computer, so I have no idea how it's using it... this could be my problem?

I have no clue... but I think a reinstall won't fix anything... since the only thing I did was uninstall all DVD player/related programs.

Vaggeto, here's a suggestion which won't thrill you, but will probably work.

1. Uninstall everything related to HTPC. All video players, codecs, add-ons, whatever. Make sure the uninstall process deletes everything including the home directory under 'program files'.

2. Reboot the computer and make sure everything comes up ok.

3. Uninstall your video drivers, reboot and reinstall them.

4. make sure to install all OS patches and updates, service packs, everything.

5. Then start adding utilities starting with the player. Make sure each works correctly before adding the next.

6. Rinse and Repeat.

--Bill

If you use WinDVD with fffdshow without the Abstract filter selected you'll crash ZoomPlayer. Can that be the problem?

Vagetto: Did you run the ffdshow.reg file from bbq's page (http://webhost.bridgew.edu/ylam/index.html)? It sets your initial settings for ffdshow.

Mastiff... I used windvd with ffdshow without abstract for the past few weeks. The only problems I had was the video freezing when I do anything like moving the screen... to get it playing again all I did was click a time point on the bar and it would keep going. I should have that solved since i got abstract filter working,

Thanks bblue... I'll do that if needed.

Jblack.. I couldn't find his website address... everyone just talked about it as "bbqs website" and never had a link. Thanks.. I hope this works.

Well... the program now has an illegal operations and shuts down when I load a DVD from drive or from folder. It will play the vob DD/DTS files I have though.

At least it's not giving an error. I have tried it with abstract and it still freezes.

What exactly is the abstract filter? Is there any more information on that?

It's a filter availalbe in WinDVD Plat and if you run it at 0 effect.. it stops ZP from freezing.

Owen,
Imho there is no need in @.reg files.
For divX you can use autoload present with settings:
16<= width <= 700 and 16 <=height <= 480
and for DVD:
700<= width <= 720 and 480 <=height <= 600

There is a check box "Try to load present from file first"... but i can't understand how it works :-\ ... perhaps it is a way to make a present for each movie....

----
All,
Its not a good idea to use windvd abstract filter (set to zero), because Reclock says that original 23.976 movie is 29.97!... and audio is out of sync :(... do you know another way to connect windvd to ffdshow with reclock audio render?

Here's the error signature I get with ffdshow enabled after using bbqs .reg file.

AppName: zplayer.exe AppVer: 0.0.0.0 ModName: ffdshow.ax
ModVer: 0.0.0.0 Offset: 00009c38

Vaggeto: the link to bbqkl's website is in my message above.

I know... I thanked you for giving it to me above.

Just letting you know I got it working again!

I ended up using inmatrix.com guide to start over on codecs. I removed all codecs, and ran that batch file. I'm now in the process of running through the inmatrix steps of getting all codecs.

The first time I tried with the newest FFDshow.. it gave me the same illegal operation... but I went to doom9 and used that one and it works!

I'm pretty sure I tried that ffdshow before though... so I'm not sure what exactly fixed it. But makes sure you try the ffdshow from doom9.org before you take away all your codecs. *sigh*

Thanks to everyone for helping!

I finally got ffdshow, reclock, windvd and zp working and most of the time it doesn't crash on startup. Sometimes reclock causes zoom player to become unresponsive.

One problem though, weave de-interlacing seems to be forced no matter what windvd settings I use. This makes video content look really bad with horizontal lines through the image. Anyone know how to fix this.

I have a few questions for you ffdshow users. I am using resize, and resizing the image to 1280x1024, my LCDs native resolution. Some say resizing to 1440x960 is even better. What do you think?

In any case, is there a need to use the dscaler filter after resizing. I thought I was getting choppy playback because ffdshow was using 100% but after disabling dscaler, its at a reasonable 80% average.

I am also using denoise but am not sure about dscaler and what resolution to resize to.

Thanks for this great FAQ!

Mark,
I suggest you go back and read this thread from page 7.
Your questions should be answered.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Mark, if you resize to your native resolution there is no further resizing back down by the video card's hardware. That should usually give you the best overall results, but try what you are suggesting and be your own judge.

Dscaler sharpen filter (used slightly -- around 40) does seem to bring up inner detail of objects without screwing things up with other artifacts. You might also try it ahead of resize (see below).

Owen, I finally got around to some comparisons between Dscaler before and after resize. Using my usual low number of 40 as a standard I noted a slightly softer image when it is used before resize, than after. This makes sense to me -- it can't do as much for the same setting to what is a smaller image at that time.

An interesting side effect that I noted was that when used before resize the ghosting which is present on many (most) DVD's also 'appeared' to be less because (apparently) of the lower effective detail improvement. But I could see how this before and after comparison could be viewed differently by some depending on the codec/filter being used, the series of DVD's being used for testing, and the display device. On my system, though, it was subtly but clearly superior when used after the resizing step.

--Bill

Mark,

Which ReClock version are you using; I have same setup (Reclock 1.1) but results are not consistent.

Also wants to get digitial output; but no sucess yet...

Bill and OWEN, Any Idea?

Wow, was only using reclock 1.0. Will try 1.1. Sometimes when some video is playing that brings you into the menu of the DVD, reclock can get confused or something like that and makes ZP crash. Disabling reclock usually fixes crashes. I will try 1.1 and see if it helps.

EDIT: I think it does.

Does anyone know what the difference between lanczos and experimental resizing is. Lanczos usus wayy more cpu power and in some places looks even worse to me than experimental.

I have settled for 1440 x 1152 resize. I am not sure about de-interlacing though. Special features seem to need de-interlacing enabled. 5-tap low pass seems the best method, or is dscaler de-interlacer really that superior.

Why isn't de-interlacing needed for standard dvd material though?

Mark,
Comparing Descaler sharpen before and after resize using the same resize setting is completely irrelevant.
You should use a MUCH lower setting for Descaler sharpen before resize.
My point is that using Descaler sharpen at a low setting before resize is similar to using it at a higher setting after resize.
Using it before resize saves a large amount of CPU that could be put to better use on other filters.

Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Owen,

I've been using ffdshow for quite a while now, and I love the improvement in picture quality. So far, my settings are (in order) Resize to 1920x1080 (may be overkill, but my CPU seems to handle it), Lanczos @ default, Luma @ 1.75, Chroma @ 1.5, Blur & NR Gradual Denoise @ 40. I also have everything set to process the whole picture. Now, the last thing I wanted to try was the DScaler sharpening filter. I registered the FLT_Sharpness.dll by itself without installing the whole application, which should work. Ffdshow picks it up and gives me the options, but no matter what I set it to, DScaler doesn't seem to do anything to the picture, although it increases the CPU load to a point where the movie only plays in slow-motion. So now I'm wondering what kind of effect the FLT_Sharpness filter should have on a movie's picture quality. For the record, I'm using Zoom Player (Overlay) with WinDVD 5.1 video filter, AC3 filter for audio, FFDShow 030523. Please give me some info on how to get DScaler to work. Thx.

Owen it is the dscaler de-interlacer that I am using not the sharpness filter. The sharpness filter does nearly nothing (well that I can see) to the image and the amount of cpu usage it adds is not worth it.

I was asking about de-interlacing. Whats the advantage in the dscaler de-interlacer because like the sharpness filter, it uses alot more cpu cycles than the other de-interlacers and the difference is nil IMO.

Do I even need a de-interlacer because with de-interlacing off, movies look fine but its only when special features are used, the image gets the famous horizontal lines.

Doesn't the video filter (intervideo in my case) do the de-interlacing??

It seems to be forced to weave for me making those special features ugly.

Thats why I am not sure whether turning on de-interlacing in ffdshow is a good idea.

Wow, VBB, you must have a really fast CPU.

Not even, it's just a P4 2.6 with hyperthreading enabled and a Radeon 9800 Pro and a Gig of RAM. All I can say is I DO see a difference between resizing to 1280x720 and resizing to 1920x1080. Pretty much fewer artifacts and an even sharper picture, especially when watching DivX. I'm just wondering if using the DScaler sharpening filter would give me an even better picture.

Have you got any other things enabled other than resize and blur and NR. I am using the same version as you and its a bit strange in that enabling blur and NR decreases cpu usage by alot.

What is your cpu usage (Device manager) resizing that high, must be in the 90's?

Wow, my P4 2.4B o/c'ed to 2.8GHz can't even manage those filter options without slowing down...I guess the 800MHz FSB and HT really makes a difference.

Originally posted by Mark Kennedy
Have you got any other things enabled other than resize and blur and NR. I am using the same version as you and its a bit strange in that enabling blur and NR decreases cpu usage by alot.

What is your cpu usage (Device manager) resizing that high, must be in the 90's?

In my experience blur and NR increases CPU usage by quite a bit, and I kinda trust the ffdshow CPU usage OSD more than the task manager one, besides, its easier on the eyes.

Which one is better, Power DVD 5 or WinDVD 5? I have WinDVD 4 and 5 (Demo) copy; I could not fix the problem with Abstract Filter so I have now switched to PowerDVD 5.0;

I see some improvements BUT not very significant; I have Blur & NR before Resize and then Dscaler Sharper set to 40;
My CPU Usage is around 65% and I will try to play execution sequence and resize to improve PQ; I will post my findings;

One question:
How to get audio Output thru Coaxial out from M-Audio card thru ZP 3.10?
When I just play PowerDVD or WinDVD I get SPDIF out but not with ZP.

Mark,

I have to check on my CPU load, but I don't think it's even breaking a sweat with my current settings. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones without stuttering, slowdowns or other issues. I'm not using Reclock either.

But guys, I would still like to know whether Dscaler sharpening makes a difference, any at all, when watching movie based material, and also how to enable the filter in FFDShow. Keep in mind that I DO see the settings (scale and fast memory access), they just don't seem to have any impact on the picture, no matter how high I set it.

Maybe disabling reclock is giving you those extra cpu cycles. I don't think dscaler sharpness is that great, I do notice a difference but its so so slight. Maybe if you had a 50 foot screen it would be very noticable but not for me.

But I have found out some interesting things about the WinDVD video filters re: de-interlacing.

I started a new thread on it because I believe if we get to the bottom of it, even more quality is very possible out of the windvd filters.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=302305 if you want to add something to it.

“Mark,
Comparing Descaler sharpen before and after resize using the same resize setting is completely irrelevant.
You should use a MUCH lower setting for Descaler sharpen before resize.
My point is that using Descaler sharpen at a low setting before resize is similar to using it at a higher setting after resize.
Using it before resize saves a large amount of CPU that could be put to better use on other filters.”

Sorry Mark, this was intended for bblue. I must have had a brain fade.
As for the Descaler deinterlace filters, well I have not found them to be much good.
I find that ffdshow’s “5-tap lowpass” deinterlacer works the best for me with video bases source.
DVD’s are almost all from film source and do not need to be deinterlaced.
In fact, deinterlacing film based source will generally result in quality degradation.
I use PAL here (lucky me), so I can’t comment on NTSC 3:2 pulldown issues.


VBB,
Are you using Descaler sharpen before or after resize?
If Ds sharpen is used after resize the result is very subtle and many people will not be able to see much difference.
In contrast, if Ds sharpen is used before resize the result is VERY noticeable.
At high settings it looks VERY over sharpened. If you can’t see that, then something is not working correctly.
Using DS sharpen after a substantial resize is not possible for me without stutters. Even using a P4 2.8C at 3.3G on a 942 FSB with 1Gig duel channel Corsair RAM and ASUS P4P800 MB.
I doubt that you will find Ds sharpen very useful for Divx. It works very well for DVD’s though.


People,
Forget about CPU usage as a guide to how well ffdshow is running.
It is normal to get stutter problems at only modest CPU load, as reported by Task Manager. Nothing new there.
I can use Ds sharpen, Resize to 1920x1080 with Lanczos Sharpen and Gradual denoise in that order without any problems or stutter. CPU load shows about 60%. But if I use Ds sharpen after resize I get bad stutters at only 80% CPU load in task manager. CPU load as reported by task manager is very deceptive. Running any filter on a 1920x1080 video stream is going to tax even the fastest cpu. With a 1440x1152 resize, playback is almost stutter free, so I guess that 1440x960 would be just possible using the same filters and filter order.
Descaler Sharpen is useful for bringing out fine details in DVD source. But most people will have to use it BEFORE resize to get stutter free playback. Anyway, it works better before resize, for most people IMHO.
Many people may find that Dscaler Sharpen works better then resize sharpen and it can be used on less powerfull systems. So give it a try.
I personally like to use both for my CRT display.

One last thing,
Using filter setting that others are using, thinking that this will give you the best result is the worst kind of folly.
Displays, personal taste and system capabilities differ so greatly that it is pointless.
You MUST experiment yourself to find the best settings for your system. It takes time, but it’s the only way.


Regards,

Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize – sharpen dude

Owen, thanks for the guide. I haven't thought about using Dscaler sharpen before resize, I'll give it a shot now since I'm sure it'll reduce the CPU load. I agree with the Task Manager CPU load comment too - I don't trust it a lot when it comes to ZP video playback. However, I've found that the ffdshow OSD CPU load is pretty accurate.

Anyway, people here have been talking about using it on intel P4s, and describing what speed is neccessary for proper usage. Does anyone have any experience with AMD Athlon XPs? What speed will an Athlon XP have to be for equivalent ffdshow settings?

Well I have my Athlon XP 1700+ overclocked to 2.6ghz with 217fsb. I can just about resize to 1440x1152 and then do blur and NR after that. Some resizing settings like Spline and Lanczos shoot cpu usage to 100% and I start missing frames so I am now using 1280x1024 (display native res) and I am getting less than 100% with Spline (best IMO) so I am happy.

So it depends on how much you resize basically.

I was looking on the net to get some basic info on image/video processing; I came across these two relevant websites;
I thought about posting on this thread for someone who might be interested.

Image Processing Fundamentals – Contents
http://www.ph.tn.tudelft.nl/Courses/FIP/noframes/fip-Contents.html

Basic Image Processing Demos
http://robotics.eecs.berkeley.edu/~sastry/ee20/index.html

Which is why I worked down from 1920x1080 in multiples of 16 to
1088x1072 and found stutter free play. If I go 1104x1072-stutter, so 1088x1072 is the closest to my native resolution without any problems. Also, while experimenting, I put unsharp mask before resize. It's at a low level (20) but it really helped an otherwise soft picture without that oversharp look. I'm very satisfied with my picture now...although with my settings written down, I'll probably continue to seek DVD playback nirvana! :)
peace out-

Owen,

Thanks so much for your reply :). I have one more quick question though for all of you ffdshow users. For picture quality, is it better to use Dscaler sharpening or ffdshow's own sharpen/unsharp mask filter, or both even? So far, for sharpening I've only used the resize/sharpen option, which is excellent. My experience with unsharp mask is that it makes the picture look kinda jaggy or edgy if you will.

On another note, if you're watching a lot of Divx movies, like i do ;), and your CPU can handle it, resizing as high as you can makes all the difference. With my current ffdshow settings, some Divx/Xvid material is very close to DVD quality, and that is on a 50" screen!

Henry,

I found some theory on Unsharp Masking I thought you might want to know: http://www.ph.tn.tudelft.nl/Courses/FIP/noframes/fip-Basic.html#Heading114

Now I am able to get some Stable picture from ZP3.1+PowerDVD5+FFDSHOW+ReClock;

THANKS TO OWEN & OTHERS;

1. I have setup in following order:
a. Blur & NR (De-Noise Set to 18).
b. Scalar Sharpen (Set to 40).
c. Re-Size 1920 x 1080, with both Loma & Chrome Set to 2.0.

2. Video Output to SONY RPTV via POWERSTRIP Configuration set to 1280X720

3. Digital Coaxial Output from M-Audio Revolution to DENON Receiver;

4. My System is: Wimp, P4 2.6C HT with 800 FSB & Intel 875 Chip on ASUS Mother Board.

5. I have PCI version of 7500 Card (taken from my Old System for now); next month I plan to change to 9700 pro AGP; currently I do not have anything in AGP Slot;

I get almost stable picture with above settings; I see some improved PQ but NOT very significant;

My Questions are:
1. Does PowerDVD5 give comparable PQ?
2. Do I need to use WinDVD 5 or Sonic Cine Player instead of PowerDVD5?

Any recommendations/Suggestions please?

Again, thanks a lot to everyone for all valuable postings!

Hmmn, I just tried Lanzcos resizing to 1024x768 on my lowly Athlon Thunderbird 1.45GHz system, and just doing that alone is causing my CPU usage to be almost 100% all the time. Adding anything else(dscaler sharpness, blur/NR, deinterlacing) will cause stutters, so I guess I'll have to go back to EXP or bicubic instead.

I've switched from lanzcos to spline....takes more cpu, but it is ever so slightly sharper ..and I can notice it......good thing about better resize methods is the sharpness you preserve is true detail, as oppossed to detail created through sharpening filter.

tbhavsar,
Why on earth are you resizing to 1920x1080 with a 1280x720 display :confused:
How did you come to use Descaler sharpen at 40. Did you find this setting best, or did you just get that setting from someone elses post :confused:
WinDVD 4.5 or 5 are the best DVD video decoders.


Owen
____________________________
The ffdshow resize - sharpen dude

Owen,
Owen,

Thanks for your reply;

I learned from the other post that if CPU can handle, more re-size then it is better to provide larger work area for PQ enhancements; But I can not make out any differences.

I got DScaler Sharpen Settings from someone else’s posts; I am still playing with this settings… will post my results; I have winDVD XP that came with ASUS board;