I have to concur, the tuner is the key. I've been using the Televes for almost 3 years, and had good luck but 2 channels I wanted escaped me, WTVS adn WWJ. I was using the RCA DTC-100 built into my set. A few months ago I picked up the Sylvania at Sears, thinking I would return it, but I've been using it happily ever since. I don't get WTVS and WWJ all the time , but I'd say easily 75% of the time, I never got them with the RCA. At this point it was more of a personal challenge then need, since I get several other PBS stations (WKAR, WFUM, WDCQ) and CBS (WLNS - I won't count WNEM...) but at least with the events on CBS in DD I may have a shot at hearing them that way.

I'm itching to get the HD DTiVo but am a little concerned about keeping the antenna pointed to get what I want recorded. If Lansing had an HD WB outlet I'd be fine since they have everything else, but from what I read the tuner in the TiVo isn't all that great. I suppose I could "Move" and get CBS via the SAT, but at this point it's not too much of an issue.

Matt L,
You may want to hold off on the HD DTIVO; I am on #5 and it is already broken. They just can't get them right yet. The picture seems darker than my T160 and it can't receive half the OTA signals either.

Well, I had some free time this afternoon, while contemplating the purchase of a roof-top antenna big enough to pull in WLNS out of Lansing...so I fired off a quick note to WNEM TV5 CBS here to inquire about the status of their HDTV feed. Here's the response, just FYI:

----------------------
Hi Mike!

We are on Channel 22 with a DTV signal (480i with 4:3 aspect ratio…not HDTV)

We are hoping to have $$ to do it next summer. Sorry I can’t help the situation!

Thanks for your understanding and for watching!

Greg Surma
Director of Engineering and Operations, WNEM-TV
989 7582084

Well, I don't watch WNEM anymore. I wish I could get that message across to their advertisers. WLNS is sometimes difficult to pull in, (especially during daylight), but once I get it, the signal stays solid for the evening.

WNEM is shooting themselves in the foot. By doing only SD they are training many of their potential viewers NOT to watch them. I know for a fact I will never watch them even if they go HD, they have shown me they have no interest in me, so I feel the same toward them. EVERY other station in the market does HD (except Sinclare...) why does WNEM feel they can't afford it? I have no use for them, I'm sorry for those that are stuck with them and I encourage all of them to "Move" to Detroit.

Matt L - I currently subscribe to Direct TV. How do I go about "moving" so I could get Detroit Locals? Thanks

I've been looking for that info as well...

Mike, I thought I sent you a PM awhile back on that subject, did you get it?

Anyone notice that WEYI is broadcasting the WB on 25.1? Since they have NBC HD on 25.2 I guess that means WB is another network we won't be able to get in HD here in central Michigan.

Originally posted by Martyr
Anyone notice that WEYI is broadcasting the WB on 25.1? Since they have NBC HD on 25.2 I guess that means WB is another network we won't be able to get in HD here in central Michigan.

I actually think this is great. I can't quite get a good signal off WB20 in Detroit, and 43 out of GR is fair but airs on a weird schedue combining with pax.. This shows the programs on the regular schedule and a reasonable picture (just no hd).

Now the true question is will they air the Detroit Pistons games that WB20 from Detroit is broadcasting. (UPN 50 no longer holds the contract for anyone that missed that). I don't know of any area stations that have indicated they will broadcast the few Pistons games that are not on FSN Detroit.

GREAT NEWS - Just saw on the "preview" of WB on 25-1 that they WILL be broadcasting the Pistons games that belong to WB20!!!!!


This is a great use of a subchannel...

Anyone know if a station can actally broadcast 2 HD channels at the same time? Is there enough bandwith?

Originally posted by Matt L
Mike, I thought I sent you a PM awhile back on that subject, did you get it?

Sorry Matt...I didn't get any response from you (either PM or email).

Mike

Originally posted by masterdeals
I actually think this is great. I can't quite get a good signal off WB20 in Detroit, and 43 out of GR is fair but airs on a weird schedule combining with pax.. This shows the programs on the regular schedule and a reasonable picture (just no hd)

HD is the point. As one who lives far enough north that I cannot see anything from Detroit or Grand Rapids, I was just lamenting the fact that HD in this area is few and far between and now one of the few HD providers is using up bandwidth for a SD signal to show ANOTHER network. It was just wishful thinking, but I had hoped that eventually WEYI would stop multicasting. Instead, they bring in another network entirely. And now I think there is no hope for WB in HD as long as they keep NBC in HD. I don't think there is enough bandwidth for two HD signals.

There seems to be a lot of knowledge in here, so I'm sure someone can help me with this. I currently use a silver sensor (home owners assoc. won't allow a "gaudy" antenae) With the SS I pick up all Flint locals and they seem to come in fine. Is there anything I can do to boost the power of the SS to see if I can extend my reach, or is there another product I could use indoors that would perhaps allow me to get to Detroit or Lansing? Thanks all, enjoy the information in here.

There are massive threads about how the HA cannot prevent you from installing an antenna on property you have control of. this would be a condo where you have access to the roof over you unit. Do a search on that subject there is lots of info out there.

That said, If you want a minimally objectionable antenna I'd go for a Channel Master 8 bay bow tie antenna on a rotor. These are the type that have a metal screen behind the bow tie elements. they perform very well and the screen can be painted to blend in with the surroundings. Being in Clio you should be able to get Detroit and Lansing with one of these, depending on your elevation.

Here's a link to earlier in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3728559#post3728559) showing the antenna Matt L is talking about. I'm using two 5' poles to get extra height. It's not exactly unobtrusive, but I wouldn't think it would be too objectionable (check first).

Ken

My setup looks like Baronken's on a two story home. I am able to pick up WLNS in Lansing reliably (AT NIGHT). It is listed as 78 miles from my home. I have also picked up a FOX station from Lansing and WWTV from Cadillac, but both are very unreliable probably because of their reduced power and they are both listed about 80 miles away.

I like the antenna. It is about 3ft by 3ft (est), and the carrier listed it at 15 lbs when it was shipped. It was easy to install, and is very easy to aim. Go for it.

I am disappointed in my reception of WSMH (FOX) with it though. WSMH broadcasts on channel 66, so I thought it would come in well with this antenna. There is too much snow to watch anything on it. Is this antenna biased toward lower channel numbers?

Hey Guys, Here's what I can get in Durand, MI with a roof mounted Wingard 8200 and Pre-Amp.

2 WJBK FOX Detroit
4 WDIV NBC Detroit
5 WNEM CBS Bay City
6 WLNS CBS Lansing
7 WXYZ ABC Detroit
10 WILX NBC Lansing
12 WJRT ABC Flint
15 WDCQ PBS Bad Axe
20 WDWB WB Detroit
23 WKAR PBS Lansing
25 WEYI NBC Saginaw
28 WFUM PBS Flint
47 WSYM FOX Lansing
53 WLAJ ABC Lansing

Still playing around, just got the antenna installed yesterday. A weird thing happened a while ago. I was trying to see if I could get anything out of Battle Creek/Kalamazoo and wasn't having any luck but then I got one to add and it was WTHR. A quick search on Titan and antennaweb returned nothing so I did a google on it. It's NBC out of Indianapolis, Almost 300 miles?!?! Anyway I got picture for about 3 seconds then it went out and I haven't got it back. But it added it to my channel list. 13-1 WTHR-HD and 13.2 Skytrack.

Has something like that happened to anyone else?

Originally posted by nettleman
Hey Guys, Here's what I can get in Durand, MI with a roof mounted Wingard 8200 and Pre-Amp.


Nettleman: I live only a few miles away in Morrice, and cannot pickup 50 from detroit (Digital 14). I was wondering if you could pick it up and missed it on the list or if you have trouble with it as well.

The only other one you may miss is detroit pbs 56 (Digital 43). I cannot get it due to interference with the analog 43 signal from over by Grand Rapids.

Just curious as we are close by and I get mostly the same results you listed.

What equipment do you use to receive channels, I have a dish network 811 receiver, with is buggy to say the least. It probally has the worst over air pickup of any sattelite receiver.

Originally posted by masterdeals
Nettleman: I live only a few miles away in Morrice, and cannot pickup 50 from detroit (Digital 14). I was wondering if you could pick it up and missed it on the list or if you have trouble with it as well.

The only other one you may miss is detroit pbs 56 (Digital 43). I cannot get it due to interference with the analog 43 signal from over by Grand Rapids.

Just curious as we are close by and I get mostly the same results you listed.

What equipment do you use to receive channels, I have a dish network 811 receiver, with is buggy to say the least. It probally has the worst over air pickup of any sattelite receiver.

No, I haven't been able to get 50. I tried for quite a while too, I wanted that channel. I spent a good 3 hours getting my channel list set.

I have a Samsung T351. Got it off eBay. It's my first receiver and the first one I've even seen so I have no guage if it's any good or not. As far as picture and sound I think it's awesome.

UPN 50 has been coming in OK for me, a few breakup but overall not too bad. However, WB 20 has taken a dive. Used to be rock solid hitting in the 80's on the meter (subjective I know...) But now it's in the 30's and spotty. i wish Lansing would get a dedicated WB outlet that did HD, we know Flint won't now that WEYI puts it on a sub channel.

My reception of WNEM TV5 has really taken a hit in the last couple of weeks. Last night I had to flip back to my Dish locals to watch any CBS feed. It's really time to "move"...

I wouldn't count on Lansing for a WB station, they have a setup station called WB30 that is on the major cable systems there. I laugh becuase they actualy advertised it as WB30 on local Lansing radio during the begining of the season.

Low and behold there is no OTA 30 in Lansing.

Hey all. I recently raised my antenna tower to around 48 feet (40 feet of tower sections plus an 8 foot pole), an Antennas Direct DB8 (basically a Channel Master 4228 clone), and Winegard AP-4800 preamplifier. Now I can pull in WLNS 6.1 and WSYM 47.1-2 (well, sometimes) along with WNEM, WJRT, WDCP, WKAR, WEYI (I love being able to watch every Pistons game without having to spring for NBA League Pass and I'm hoping the same for the Tigers and Wings :(), and WFUM. I didn't have any luck towards Detroit.

I have to deal with 60 foot trees, so it isn't easy. I used to have the Platinum HD Hughes receiver, but I upgraded to the Samsung TS360 (stupid off-air signal meter).

I really hate WNEM for being so cheap and I really hate Sinclair and WSMH. It's not fair and it's not right. I especially hate how Sinclair is lying about the Canadian border issue. Anyone with half a brain can see right through that one.

Edit: I just found out about the LG LST-4200A receiver and I bought one. I sure hope this thing works as advertised!

Another thing: I have an old rotor, and I just looked on the back of the turning box (not sure what the proper name is) to see some information about it. It was made by Channel Master and has a copyright of 1965! I think the rotor assembly is also that old. That can't be good, eh?

The rotor assembly is that old, but the motor was replaced in the 80s.

Well, got the LG LST-4200A and I'm disappointed. No new digital channels or less drops than what I had with my Samsung TS-360. The whole point of this experiment was to get a better signal and as few drops as possible for WSYM Fox 47. I'll give it another shot later on, but it looks like it's going back.

Is anyone else out there incredibly upset with the lack of local HDTV available on Comcast in our area? I know it is not completely their fault, but c'mon, when I call national Comcast help lines they say, "every market has Fox and CBS", then they take a look and say"oh wow, you are the only place that I know of that does not carry them". Great!

I wish they would at least offer a dual input stb so I could hook an antenna in.

It is also frustrating when you are watching ads - on Comcast - that tell you to subscribe and get this great On Demand service, and when I press my OnDemand button I get bumkis.

I was kind of wishing for Comcast. We have Charter up here, and they still don't have ABC and NBC in HD. For $10.00 a month and the cost of digital access, they are offering HDNET, HDNet movies, and ESPN. You DO have access to HBO E and Showtime E. in HD if you are buying the service. AND there is no hope for CBS and FOX because of WNEM & WSMH.

If it is a matter of bandwidth, I would be happy to give up the shopping channels, Midland's five public access channels, MTV(s) and VH1(s), the music channels, PPV(s), and any foreign language and religious channels that I have never ever watched. Keep FOX and CNN and get rid of the rest of the news and business channels.

Pass through the HD feeds of the networks, and let the people who don't care to buy HD get the down rez version. (Can a local station pass through their network's HD feed to the local cable company even though they don't broadcast in HD? For example: can WNEM and WSMJ pass through the HD versions of CBS and FOX to Charter even though they are not broadcasting HD?. Is it possible? Is it legal?

On a second test, the 4200A does do a better job at keeping in signals than the TS360. It's not significant, but it is an improvement. I can't really say much about the signal meter since the one in the TS360 is all messed up (we're all waiting for a software upgrade to fix that).

After doing some more reading, I am starting to regret my antenna decision. Looks like the more-directional XG91 from Antennas Direct would've been the better choice that the DB8. I guess I'm stuck with it, because raising and lowering that 48' tower is no picnic.

Re Comcast: I don't think they will ever have a box that'll allow OTA reception. I mean, why should they have to compete with OTA signals when they can just bring your locals to you. :rolleyes:

Why does everything in Flint suck. When the local guys start doing HD?

On the subscription side, HBO HD is pretty cool. I also have Starz HD for a while as well, but somtimes their stuff is still 4:3.

Have you been checking out the IMAX stuff on INHD2? Some of those have been pretty cool. Sometimes I sit right in front of my big screen to simulate the IMAX effect. :) The picture is perfect.

Why don't we get PBS in HD either? They had some really good shows when I was getting it OTA.

HUH? PBS has been in HD for some time, great crew over there very responsive to viewers. DT ch. 52-1 remaps to 28-1. Being in GB, you should have no problems getting OTA HD from Detroit, but it sounds like you're on cable, so that's really your problem. Talk to Comcast or dump them and go with D, and an antenna. I'm at 18 OTA HD stations and counting.

Can anyone here give me an idea of how accurate TitanTV is with regard to the subchannels? For instance, they have 3 listed for WJRT...is that accurate? I'm trying to work out some tuning issues with a new PC card and this info would help. Thanks much.

There are 3, the main, the news and weather --at least last time I checked.

Thanks Matt, that's exactly what I'm getting with my card.

Next question, if you don't mind... Is Leno on WEYI-HD Dolby Digital 2.0? And if that's the case, is that the way NBC does it, or is it produced 5.1 and WEYI only passes 2.0?

Thanks for your insight.

GenoV, checked out WEYI tonight, Leno was only DD 2.0, so what you are getting is correct. Only WILX-DT does NBC in DD 5.0, but I really don't think much of NBC's stuff is 5.0, so much of it is processed, but the end result sounds good to me.

Thanks again for the info, Matt. I'm a live music lover and I know how good some of those performances on Leno could sound in 5.1. Too bad NBC doesn't feel the same right now.

ABC and NBC are definitely covered for me with 12-1 and 25-2. CBS is covered for me 90% of the time, and will be 100% in the future with WWTV-DT. The 90% thing is due to 2 reasons: 1) They're not at anything close to full power and 2) Last night was a bad night for longer distance OTA reception, so the signal was dropping quite a lot. Now if WSMH would get their *&%^ in gear, FOX would be covered. I may be able to pull 47 (Digital 38) from Lansing on decent reception nights as a stop gap. But I don't think it will be a long-term answer. I get WDCQ (Delta College) HD very strong, and have a second option coming when WCMU (CMU) is online sometime in the future.

Hooked up my new Samsung SIRT-451 receiver last week. So far it seems to have stopped the dropouts on WJRT and the PBS from Bad Axe, but the long distance signal WLNS is not always available. I found that it is a lot more sensitive to the antenna direction than the old DISH 6000. But the pictures are great once I get it tuned in.

Now the question is, do I continue to put up with all the fan noise from the DISH receiver and spend $26.00 a month just so I can get TNT and a reliable CBS, or do I settle for WNEM (GRRRR!) and watch TV for free again?

GenoV, I see you are trying to get Lansing also. Can you say where you are located?

Hi all, I am pretty new to all of this, but I have had Voom installed for about 6 months. I had the antennea for local channels upgraded and also had a rotor installed. The antennea is roof mounted with the rotor. I live in Hemlock, and I am very dissapointed in the signals I am receiving. I currently get 5, 12, 25-1, 25-2 and some of the PBS stations like 35 or 38. I get a lot of drop out on channel 12 and I can't seem to get FOX at all. I was told by VOOM that FOX doesn't has liscensing or something like that to broadcast digitally. I can use my rabbit ears to pull in the analog signal great. My question is what can I do to improve my digital signal quality and possibly pull in FOX from somewhere else? I don't think an amp would work because of the way VOOM combines the signal from the antennea and the dish into the back of the receiver.

Hey, welcome. Refresh my memory where is Hemlock?

As to your use of a preamp, if Voom does it the way D does, inject the signal into the switch and use diplexers to split it out, you can use a preamp. It will take a bit more work to install though. You can mount the head end unit at the antenna as usual, but you need to get the power inserter in the line before it goes to the switch. how easy this is to do depends on where your switch is mounted. It may be easier to go with a higher gain antenna, and in the end you may need both.

As for HD FOX you have two options, Lansing or Detroit. AS has been discussed Flint's FOX is Sinclaire and they are notorious for doing everything to avoid going digital let alone HD.

Hey, I know many of you don't have Comcast, but for those of you that do the dual tuner HD DVR is available in our area. I got mine installed yesterday and it seems to be pretty good. Some quirks still. The think I like is that it will now record by title and no by the time slot, so it will look for a show on multiple channels and will record only first run shows if you want. The guide has a new look now as well.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by matt54321
[B I live in Hemlock, and I am very disappointed in the signals I am receiving. I currently get 5, 12, 25-1, 25-2 and some of the PBS stations like 35 or 38. I get a lot of drop out on channel 12 and I can't seem to get FOX at all.

If you live in Hemlock, you should be getting a pretty good signal from WJRT. Isn't their tower just down the road in the St. Charles/Chesening area? I always had a lot of drop outs from them, even though I get a fairly strong signal on my receiver. It would be 85% then drop out. A pre-amp helped a little, but I installed a new receiver a couple of weeks ago, and I still get a few minor break-ups. But now the picture is at least watchable.

WSMH is not broadcasting digitally (at least I have never picked it up), but I have a hard time picking up their analog signal using an outdoor antenna and the same pre-amp. Since they are broadcasting on UHF (66), I thought it would be fairly strong signal. Their tower is right next to WJRT, so maybe there is a "black hole" over their keeping us from HD.

Hi all,

I was just wondering if anyone has had any troubles with OTA reception of some of the locals lately? I can no longer receive the digital signals for WNEM (5) and WFUM (28) - I used to be able to get these really well, now I can't get better than a '49' for signal strength and that isn't enough to put a picture on the screen. I know nothing to cry about over WNEM, but at least WFUM did broadcast in HD and surround! I did a few rescans, but can't pick them back up again. Being where I am in Frankenmuth, I can't get much in the first place, losing these two is a reduction of about 40% of the channels I was getting in the first place. Anyone else have trouble, or is it just me?

I'm having less luck pulling in WFUM, but the other stations are just fine and dandy.

I have not noticed any problem with WNEM as I am flipping by, (except the obvious). I have never been able to get WFUM. I have recently been having a lot of problems trying to get WLNS out of Lansing though. I guess it's a good thing that I "moved" so I get WCBS on satellite.

I don't know if this exactly belongs here, but Mid-Michigan's WB is now on channel 14 on DirecTV. You'll have to have the local channels package to view this channel. It's also on 15 for Comcast customers and 11 for Parish Communications subscribers. Charter is supposed to have it by the end of the year, but I wouldn't put money on it.

Hello All. I am in the Fenton tri-county area--the NE corner of Livingston county. We currently have Charter cable (which doesn't offer HDTV) and are looking to receive some OTA HDTV. Can someone explain how this works (what equipment do we need)? Do we need an antenna on the house as well as some kind of receiver/tuner? Is there a combo that is recommend for this area?

My husband and I are really only concerned about watching sports in HDTV. If we could get WXYZ in HDTV that would be great. We would be using HDTV on whatever digital projector we decide to purchase.

Any thoughts/advice/suggestions would be appreciated.

BTW--satelitte is not an option per hubby's request! :)

pggirl: To receive HD (digital) programming, you will need a HD receiver and a UHF antenna. You should be able to receive the network stations from Flint. You may also be able to receive some Detroit digital (HD) stations. Check where your local stations are located in relationtion to where you live. That will determine the cost of your UHF antenna. If the transmitting towers are within 30 miles of your house, you may not need a pre-amp. If the the incoming signals are coming from same general direction, you may not need a rotator to turn your antenna toward the towers. Your projector will need a source fed into it. In other words, DVD or digital signal. You must get a HD receiver, as mentioned above. And find out where your local network stations are. There is some very good programming on satellite, by the way.

You can do the "where are the digital stations and how far away are they" check on:

http://www.antennaweb.org/

Click on the only option: Choose an antenna

Here's a list for ZIP code 48430 (Fenton, MI):

* yellow - uhf WSMH-DT 16 FOX FLINT MI Awaiting FCC Permit 338° 34.5 16
* yellow - uhf WLNS-DT 6.1 CBS LANSING MI 266° 33.2 59
* yellow - uhf WFUM-DT 28.1 PBS FLINT MI 65° 16.0 52
* yellow - uhf WAQP-DT 48 TBN SAGINAW MI Awaiting FCC Permit 338° 34.5 48
* green - uhf WJRT-DT 12.1 ABC FLINT MI 339° 35.2 36
* lt green - uhf WEYI-DT 25.1 NBC SAGINAW MI 7° 30.2 30
* red - uhf WKAR-DT 23.1 PBS EAST LANSING MI 268° 34.9 55
* blue - uhf WXYZ-DT 41.1 ABC DETROIT MI 137° 32.6 41
* blue - uhf WNEM-DT 5.1 CBS BAY CITY MI 0° 48.0 22
* violet - uhf WDIV-DT 4.1 NBC DETROIT MI 133° 33.8 45
* violet - uhf WDCQ-DT 15.1 PBS BAD AXE MI 10° 52.8 15
* violet - uhf WTVS-DT 43.1 PBS DETROIT MI 135° 36.6 43
* violet - uhf WPXD-DT 33 PAX ANN ARBOR MI Awaiting FCC Permit 218° 32.9 33
* violet - uhf WWJ-DT 62.1 CBS DETROIT MI 135° 36.6 44
* violet - uhf WDWB-DT 21.1 WB DETROIT MI 135° 36.6 21
* violet - uhf WJBK-DT 2.1 FOX DETROIT MI 136° 34.4 58
* violet - uhf WLAJ-DT 53.1 ABC LANSING MI 245° 47.2 51
* violet - uhf WKBD-DT 50.1 UPN DETROIT MI 140° 29.6 14

pjgirl, to make it simple, get the Channel Master 8 bay bow tie, don't recall the model number, check Solid Signal one of the sponsors here, ( located in MI too). You are much better off getting the biggest UHF antenna you can and avoiding a pre amp, in this area you don't have to worry about overload. You will want to add a rotor also. In your area I don't think you'll need a pre amp, I try without first. I'm well north of you in Flushing, and get all the Detroit stations, Lansing, and Flint. You want to focus on Detroit and Lansing, since they have the best selection of HD. Run a good quality RG-6 coax directly to your receiver and you should be in good shape.

As to a receiver, just about any OTA box will do, I've read good things about the stuff from Walmart, they sell US?? something (sorry drawing a blank at the moment) which is intended for a subscriptions service but works great for what you want. You might also scour Best Buy and Circuit City after the holidays for open box deals, you should be able to get something for under $200 if you shop around.

I've had HD for 3 years now, when I started I got 2 channels, now I get 18 OTA stations, fantastic!

The antennaweb.org web site was very helpful. When I plugged in our address it looks like we are 30-40 miles from most stations. It recommended a large directional antenna with pre-amp. Looking forward to sending hubby up on the roof to install this thing. :D

mangopony:
I've seen you over on the projector threads. Are you in the Michigan area? Have you decided on a projector yet? :)

I forgot to ask. What's a pre-amp? Is there a reason why I would or wouldn't want to have one?

A pre amp is an amplifier that's mounted at the antenna. This is the point where the signal is the cleanest and amplification helps the most. If you're in a marginal area a pre amp can make or break reception, I really don't believe that is the case for you. If it's a one shot deal, you're going up on the roof once and only once, I'd install one at the antenna, but if you have the option of adding it later I would.

There is a vast difference among pre amps, some can actually destroy your HD reception ( see the many posts of the cheap Radio Shack pre amps...) and the gold standard is the Channel Master 77xxx series. These provide a very clean signal, which is crucial for HD. There are several in the line, I use the UHF only model, and it's great --but remember I'm 20+ miles north of you. You can expect to invest $70 in the pre amp, that's why I'd hedge at this point. As I mentioned before you are always better off getting a bigger antenna and avoiding the pre amp, simply because it is one less item that can degrade your signal.

Thanks for the info Matt. One last detail I have a question about: Run a good quality RG-6 coax directly to your receiver and you should be in good shape

I'm assuming the cable will run directly from the antenna to the receiver? Does this involve drilling a hole through the house? What's the best way to do this? Is there anyway I can run this through with our Charter cable line somehow? Sorry for being such a pest. I really appreicate your help. :)

You are always much better off running a separate line for OTA antenna feeds, that was every bit of the signal get where it needs to be. I use Quad shield RG-6, but it is overkill, home Depot has decent quality RG-6 on a spool, you'll need to get a decent crimper to attach the coax ends. If you happen to be 50 or 100 feet from your antenna you can buy pre-made cables at radio shack, but the runs rarely end up near those distances and you don't want extra wire coiled up somewhere...

I've just been told by a friend that he's able to watch NBC-HD on Charter Cable Channel 780. This just popped up tonight, so we don't know if it's a temporary addition or what. Anyone else able to see this?

I don't have Charter, so I was curious if they were carrying the same signal that I can pick up with my OTA.

Mike

pjgirl here is a link to the us digital box I mentioned...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4878200#post4878200

What about the LG 3510 I am hearing mentioned? A bit more expensive than the USDTV but has a DVD player. Is this combo a good idea? I am always hesitant to buy "dual purpose" products. I will be using these with a projector--hopefully the Panasonic 700. Eek. Maybe I need to move on to a different thread . . . :D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MikeLa4
[B]I've just been told by a friend that he's able to watch NBC-HD on Charter Cable Channel 780. This just popped up tonight, so we don't know if it's a temporary addition or what. Anyone else able to see this?


It popped up without any notice that I am aware of. I talked to WEYI about 45 days ago and they told me they had offered it to Charter, but they had not closed the deal yet. I guess they did. Pretty good picture also.

I talked to WJRT about the same time, and they told me nothing would happen with Charter until after the first of the year when the contracts for the analog signal runs out. "We will be negotiating".

MATT: the model number of the Channel Master 8 bay model is 4228. With that and a CM pre-amp, I usually pull in WLNS out of Lansing about 89 miles away according to the web sites. Of course they are broadcasting at full power I think. WWTV (?) which is CBS out of Cadillac is actually closer, but I hardly ever am able to get it. I think because they are much lower power.

My OTA WEYI usually pops in and out of HD several times per night. Sometimes 4:3, sometimes 16:9...

It seems that they have alot of equipment problems over there...It's not the programming.

Mike

I haven't seen a whole lot of WEYI on Charter yet, but what I have seen has been pretty good. It's interesting, because Charter says they are broadcasting it in Dolby digital, but I don't remember it being in DD when OTA. I will have to check. My rear speakers are receiving a signal off cable though. I was wondering if WEYI HD was on Comcast in Flint. I know they are advertising WJRT in HD.

Oops, Leno was not in HD last night (Thursday).

Sadly it seems that Charter is not brodcast NBC-HD here. The cabel box doesn't even see a chanel 780. I hope thye get it here soon. Having only a total of 5 chanels of HD isn't that great.

I pulled the following notice off the WSMH FOX (Flint) website today. I don't know how long it has been there or if it is on the other Sinclair websites. All I know is that I just want to be able to see the Super Bowl in HD this year and I can't

cable resale of local tv version 2.ltr
The digital television signals of television stations owned by Sinclair Broadcast Group, Inc. are not currently carried on many local cable systems. As explained below, the reason for this is quite simple -- the
cable companies have unfairly refused to pay for the right to transmit these digital signals.
In many ways, cable companies are no different than stores. They buy products at wholesale and then resell them to consumers at a higher price in order to make a profit. In other words, just like a grocery store buys food and then resells it to its customers, cable companies buy television programming and resell it to their subscribers. Inexplicably, however, the cable companies do not think they should have to pay to acquire content broadcast on local broadcast television stations even though they expect you to pay them for the right to receive that programming.
The cable companies’ position is very surprising given that the model in which they pay to acquire the right to resell television programming is well established. The cable companies routinely pay to carry the
signals of cable networks, such as ESPN, CNN, MTV and yes, even Animal Planet. They do this, but refuse to pay for the programming of local television stations, even though the programming on local television
stations generally attracts far larger audiences than does the programming on the cable networks.
The cable companies claim that they do not pay for local broadcast television stations because the mere act of carrying the stations, and thus making the signal more accessible to cable subscribers, is consideration
enough. The absurdity of such a claim is clear as soon as one stops to consider the standard practice within the cable industry of paying cable only networks for their signal. After all, if carriage of a local broadcast
signal provides sufficient consideration to the local television station, carriage alone would certainly be sufficient consideration for the cable networks (which rely exclusively on cable carriage to reach their
viewers) such as HGTV and Nickelodeon.
The cable companies also like to claim that their subscribers will not pay for local channels because they do not really care if they receive local stations via cable since they can already receive them free over-the-air.
This simply is not true, as evidenced by the complaints cable companies routinely receive if they do not carry a local broadcast station. Further evidence has been provided by the large number of people who signed up
for satellite service, such as DirecTV and Dish Network, and abandoned cable service, only after satellite began offering carriage of local channels. In addition, the vast majority of satellite subscribers initially agreed
to pay either $5.00 or $6.00 per month simply to receive their local channels via satellite. As “Television Week,” a major industry publication, noted, the addition of local stations to satellite removed “one of the most
compelling attributes cable has had over satellite.”
In addition, the cable companies use the carriage of local television stations’ digital signals as a way to retain existing subscribers and attract new ones. They use their carriage of these signals (and such compelling
high definition programming as the Super Bowl and the NCAA men’s basketball tournament) as a way to entice analog subscribers to switch to higher priced digital service. They also use their carriage of high
definition digital broadcasts of local stations to differentiate themselves from their competitor, satellite, which currently does not have the requisite bandwidth capacity to carry these signals.
Cable companies benefit when they carry local broadcast channels in the form of more subscribers and higher profits. A portion of the fees their subscribers pay each and every month is to compensate the cable
companies for delivering their local broadcast channels. Fundamental fairness dictates that the cable companies should pay the broadcasters for the signals they are reselling. If you agree that part of the fee you
pay your cable company every month should be used to acquire the programming on the local broadcast stations and not paid to cable channels which you watch much less frequently, please make sure your cable company knows this.
Thank you.

I asked comcast by email on local HDTV channels and they responded by saying they currently don't have any more space to add more H Def channels. Forget it man, Im going out to get the tuner and the attenna.

It's my understanding that those with Direct TV in Detroit can now get FOX in HD. I believe it's the New York FOX station, but it'd still be nice to have. Anyone have this yet? Any complaints about it? I am thinking I may "move" in order to get it so I can get the Superbowl in HD.

Well its looks like we might be getting Fox HD on comcast. Sinclair (parent company of Fox 66) has agreed to a tenative agreement with comcast. Now its up to fox 56 to get their signal going

It does not matter in this area about cable carriage of FOX HD because WSMH is not even on OTA yet.
They have a channel assignment (16) but have not started broadcasting.
Does anyone know when that will start?

From My location, with a rooftop antenna and Amp, I can get a good OTA signal on WJRT DT (by far the most advanced HD Broadcaster), WEYI DT, WNEM DT (no HD yet), and WDCQ DT all in one direction.
I can even pull WXYZ DT, and WDWB DT with my antenna pointed southeast.

My confusion is that I cannot receive WLNS DT (59) out of Lansing, even though the tower is less than 10 miles away! While their analog signal (6) overpowers everything.......Very strange.

I have a Directv HD with Tivo which can receive OTA ATSC as well as HD Satellite.

Interesting. Have you considered overload? I'd try an attenuator and see if that helps you WLNS problem.

What makes you say WJRT is the most advanced? I refuse to watch them for several reasons: too many sub channels, stretching everything that isn't HD, DD 5.1 balance sounds off to me. I'll watch 53 from Lansing before I'd ever watch WJRT. WXYZ is my ABC source.

(1) I noticed several times while watching WEYI that many (maybe even all) of the NBC shows that are first run in HD are not HD if the show is being rerun. It happened again tonight with the three Law In Orders (or is it Laws In Order) that were broadcast.

Anyone know if it is an NBC thing or a WEYI (grrrr) thing?

(2) Some of us only have WJRT Matt, so we have to love it or leave it or buy a new receiver (my Samsung picks up WJRT a lot better than my DISH 6000). Thought I read somewhere that WJRT was an O&O for satellite users and those in the Flint market with locals could receive WABC-HD from New York. I "moved" to Detroit for CBS, so should I move back to Midland for ABC?

(3) There was an article in our local newspaper last Sunday in which WSMH claimed they could not broadcast a digital (HD) signal because the US would not give them a permit. They are too close to Canada. Isn't Detroit closer to Canada than Chesaning? I can't believe anyone "called" them on it.

Well, It was WEYI, I flipped by the last 10 minutes of L&A on WDIV and it was HD. What channel are you getting WEYI HD on? WED. night is a HD challenge at 9 PM. I wanted to record Alias, and Jack and Bobby, and watch West Wing on WEYI, but all I got was a black screen on the HD channel. I might need to rescan with all the PSIP crap going on, but I got nothing, and I can see the tower...

As to my WJRT comment, I was just questioning why they are "Advanced".

WEYI is on 25.2 (They have the WB on 25.1). It is also on Charter cable up here, somewhere around 779. WEYI continues to be an adventure as to whether HD will on for the evening.

I was just ragging on you about WJRT. I haven't noticed any sound problem, but I will listen for it. I am tired of the stretch screen also, especially when they do football. Their HD does look good OTA though.

Does WEYI ever show WB in HD?

No, they run it on a sub-channel. Only WDWB runs WB programming in HD.

I may be moving to Midland and I was looking at the the available DTV stations. I was wondering if anyone has been able to get Lansing from Midland. I looked at the air distance and it is around 70-75 miles. I have had experience with putting up a tall tower and getting stations that were around 70 miles. So, will I be able to get Lansing on a daily basis with a large VHF-UHF antenna 40 feet in the air?

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
I may be moving to Midland and I was looking at the the available DTV stations. I was wondering if anyone has been able to get Lansing from Midland. I looked at the air distance and it is around 70-75 miles. I have had experience with putting up a tall tower and getting stations that were around 70 miles. So, will I be able to get Lansing on a daily basis with a large VHF-UHF antenna 40 feet in the air?

Not sure, but you can probally get in WLNS, CBS, they have a very strong signal. The NBC, ABC, and FOX from Lansing all have a weak signal and would be inconsistent that far North.

On a positive note, the PBS, NBC and ABC for Flint/Saginaw do broadcast HD. Fox is a zero with no plans to anytime soon. You may check into Fox 33 from Cadillac, not sure how far that would be.

I think you would probally get everthing except FOX.

There is a member that lives in Midland, but not sure who it is. Check past posts looking for the Midland member.

Good Luck!

I live in Midland (by the Holiday Inn) and pick up WLNS using a CM4228 plus a pre-amp with a Samsung SIRT451 receiver. The antenna is on top of my house about 25 to 30 feet. Masterdeals is right, WLNS has a strong signal, and I am usually able to pick it up. I have to be looking directly at it, and the weather does affect it. Even though my antenna is on a rotor, I try to leave it aimed at Lansing, and I can still pick up WJRT-HD, WEYI-HD (now on Charter Cable), and WNEM (who cares).

I have been unsuccessful trying to get anything else out of Lansing, except I have caught an occasional lock on FOX, but not enough to get a picture.

Turning to the northwest, I haven't checked in a few months, but I have picked up CBS from Cadillac a few times. Even though I think they are closer to me than WLNS and higher, their signal is very low, and usually not watchable. I think I read somewhere that the digital stations must be broadcasting at their licensed power by June otherwise they run the risk of changing out the map of their coverage area to match their actual power. So, maybe we can pick up some new networks here in Midland. Maybe someone else knows more about that and can explain it better.

Comcast has added PBS (WFUM) hD to their channel lineup

Does anyone know if Charter is scrambling the local hi-def channels (WJRT, WEYI etc), or whether I can pick them up with a QAM receiver like the LST-4200A ?

Originally posted by sjhenry
Does anyone know if Charter is scrambling the local hi-def channels (WJRT, WEYI etc), or whether I can pick them up with a QAM receiver like the LST-4200A ? I'd be interested to know this too, for Mt. Pleasant Charter.

Does anyone know if Charter is scrambling the local hi-def channels (WJRT, WEYI etc), or whether I can pick them up with a QAM receiver like the LST-4200A ?

Well, I guess I can pretty much answer my own question...
I went out and picked up a LST-3510A today to see what you get.

I pick up 74 channels on QAM. They break down into
WEYI-DT (NBC in HD)
WEYI (WB in SD)
National Geographic (strangely with no sound)
The tennis channel
A bunch of music channels
A bunch of scrambled channels

I cannot find WJRT, so in effect the only HD channel you get is WEYI.
It looks like Charter is scrambling local HD channels and just hasn't gotten around to WEYI yet.
So... it doesn't look worthwhile to go with a QAM tuner instead of OTA in Midland so I will be returning the LST-3510A tomorrow.

If anyone wants an open box at Best Buy, I suggest that you turn up sometime after lunch... :)

Reasons for WJRT having the lead in Flint area HDTV:

1. Even local content is in 16:9, and for some reason the native 4:3 does not look "streached".

2. Dolby 5.1 works good and sounds normal to me.

3. Cosider the competition, WEYI has numerous technical problems with both their primary and secondary DTV signals. The WB audio is frequently overmodulated, and the picture is barely passable. The primary channel is often poor quality (wavy pics) and sometimes goes to a completely green screen. WSMH, no digital signal at all, and WNEM no hi def.

4. WJRT is a Disney O & O giving them more financial resources for engineering. Their signal is strong thoughout their coverage area, same as their NTSC signal.

I have the best of all worlds. I have a Direct TV tuner with TIVO with an integrated ATSC tuner. I also have access to the hi def signals of all of the New York and LA stations over Direct TV.

With my OTA antenna I can receive all Flint Stations + WXYX, WWDB, WDIV, WLNS, WSYM, WKAR.

twaller, where did you "Move" to to get the D E & W feeds? I've thought about doing it, but don't think I'd gain that much.

Has anyone contacted WEYI about their audio problems? I haven't tuned into them for months, but last week I had both tuners in the TiVo recording stuff, and tuned in to watch the NBC feed, and the audio was really out of sync.

Actually Matt L. I didn't have to "move" at all. I was receiving Network Affiliates while I was with Primestar, and when they folded into Directv, all I had to show was proof that I had them previously, and I got them with Directv. So now I also get the Digital Hi-Def signals from New York and LA.

Originally posted by sjhenry
Well, I guess I can pretty much answer my own question...
I went out and picked up a LST-3510A today to see what you get.

I pick up 74 channels on QAM. They break down into
WEYI-DT (NBC in HD)
WEYI (WB in SD)
National Geographic (strangely with no sound)
The tennis channel
A bunch of music channels
A bunch of scrambled channels

I cannot find WJRT, so in effect the only HD channel you get is WEYI.
It looks like Charter is scrambling local HD channels and just hasn't gotten around to WEYI yet.
So... it doesn't look worthwhile to go with a QAM tuner instead of OTA in Midland so I will be returning the LST-3510A tomorrow.

If anyone wants an open box at Best Buy, I suggest that you turn up sometime after lunch... :) I did this with my Fusion III card (in Mt. Pleasant) last night and got similar results...but not 74 channels.

Got both of the WEYI's you listed and the National Geographic channel, plus Women, Hallmark, SoapNet, G4TV, and a few others. No music channels, but my auto-scan only went to channel 125.

Did you find channels higher, and were you using 64 or 256QAM, or both?

Did you find channels higher, and were you using 64 or 256QAM, or both?

The LST-3510A only scans up to channel 125, which in analog terms is all you are going to get anyway. However within each channel up to 125 there are numerous subchannels for digital. As to whether I was using 64 or 256QAM, I have no idea. I just set it to "QAM".

Does anyone out there have equipment that displays the bit rate stations are putting out? I seem to recall some of the computer cards do this. any way, I was wondering what WEYI is putting out on the HD channel and the WB sub channel. I tuned into ER last night since the other stations did not run it in HD but WEYI did and the picture looked interesting. Best way to describe it. It looked like HD, just weird the other stations didn't "flip the switch".

The other thing I find interesting is that the WB sub looks better than the D delivered channel WDWB 20. While it is in no way HD, for SD it looks good.

Hey Matt,

I think my MYHD card does that. I don't have it hooked up to the antenna right now. I probably won't be able to get to it tonight, but I'll shoot for checking it tommorow night.

BTW Do we have a update listing of channels we can get around here? It's been a while since I have checked. I highly doubt fox 66 is up.

Hmmm, couldn't find WEYI NBC HD tonight anyone else?

Originally posted by Matt L
Does anyone out there have equipment that displays the bit rate stations are putting out? I seem to recall some of the computer cards do this. any way, I was wondering what WEYI is putting out on the HD channel and the WB sub channel. I tuned into ER last night since the other stations did not run it in HD but WEYI did and the picture looked interesting. Best way to describe it. It looked like HD, just weird the other stations didn't "flip the switch".

The other thing I find interesting is that the WB sub looks better than the D delivered channel WDWB 20. While it is in no way HD, for SD it looks good.

Hi Matt,
I took these last Friday night on a Sencore DTV Investigator.

Channel 36 (WJRT) 36-1 10.047 Mbps
36-2 2.785 Mbps
36-3 1.034 Mbps

Channel 30 (WEYI) 30-1 3.500 Mbps
30-2 14.0 Mbps

Channel 15 (WDCQ) 15-1 14.390 Mbps
15-2 2.598 Mbps
15-3 and 15-4 are placeholders at 452. Kbps

Bern

Wow, interesting. Thanks bdlitzne.

Originally posted by bdlitzne
Hi Matt,
I took these last Friday night on a Sencore DTV Investigator.

Channel 36 (WJRT) 36-1 10.047 Mbps
36-2 2.785 Mbps
36-3 1.034 Mbps

Channel 30 (WEYI) 30-1 3.500 Mbps
30-2 14.0 Mbps

Channel 15 (WDCQ) 15-1 14.390 Mbps
15-2 2.598 Mbps
15-3 and 15-4 are placeholders at 452. Kbps

Bern

I don't know much about electronics bdlitzne, but can you measure any of these signals off a cable system or satellite system to see what they pass through?

I see a little better picture OTA for WEYI (30-2) than I see from Charter cable. I see a lot better picture OTA from WLNS (6-1) than I see on WCBS through DISH Network. Both OTA pictures are crisper and much more rich than either satellite or cable. WNEM (CBS) continues to suck in SD, and is WSMH still broadcasting? Was it ever?

Is WNEM-DT Still on the air???

Seriously, I did not get a signal all weekend. ??????

Is it just me?

Nope, same thing happened to me. I'm not getting any thing at all... but maybe this is a good sign...?

Originally posted by twaller
Is WNEM-DT Still on the air???

Seriously, I did not get a signal all weekend. ??????

Is it just me?

I noticed they weren't there also. Since I don't watch WNEM, I only noticed it as I flipped by to WLNS or WNBC. Maybe one day we will turn it on and it will say WNEM-HD.

I saw a scrawl on WSMH (FOX out of Flint) tonight telling people to call Comcast to get FOX-HD. Did I read that right? Did anyone else see it?. I know they have been giving heck to DISH Network about not having an agreement to carry them after 5/31, but I really wonder about the HD part and why they would only mention Comcast and not Charter.

Hi! I just found this thread and read through most of the last couple of pages of posts; I figured I'd add my two cents for anyone interested.

I live in Midland and have Charter w/ Moxi (Digital and HD cable with a PVR). It ain't TIVO, but it isn't the worst piece of engineering out there either.

I get HDNet, HDNet Movies, HBO-HD, Showtime-HD, ESPN-HD, and the Flint NBC station in HD (channel 780, which someone earlier in the thread said was not available...).

As usual, I'm appalled w/ Charter. For months this has been the lineup with no interest in communicating what the plan is for more channels. I called yesterday and harassed a customer service rep until he called a higher-up. The best I could get out of him is that TNT-HD and Discovery-HD might (but don't hold him to it) be coming in the next couple of months.

I don't have an OTA antenna, and my HDTV doesn't have an HD tuner, so Charter is my best option. Like I said, the Moxi box isn't in the same league as TIVO, but it is really cheap and I didn't have any equipment to buy.

Has anyone heard any more about when more HD channels might come available? Especially ABC, CBS, and *gasp* FOX?

Thank goodness we live in the 21st century and have access to so many efficiency-enhancing resources. Otherwise this would be complex, obtuse, and painstakingly slow... ;)

mvpgoblue, does Charter's PVR record in HD? If it does, how many inputs does it have? Is it limited to the cable input, or can I add my OTA receiver to it?

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I was on vacation in Croatia/then on to D.C. for a work assignment.

The only signals I can look at are 8VSB (DTV Off-Air) or the SMPTE 310 signal. I'll stick my nose in the manual to see if I missing something.
Bern


I don't know much about electronics bdlitzne, but can you measure any of these signals off a cable system or satellite system to see what they pass through?

I see a little better picture OTA for WEYI (30-2) than I see from Charter cable. I see a lot better picture OTA from WLNS (6-1) than I see on WCBS through DISH Network. Both OTA pictures are crisper and much more rich than either satellite or cable. WNEM (CBS) continues to suck in SD, and is WSMH still broadcasting? Was it ever?

mvpgoblue, does Charter's PVR record in HD? If it does, how many inputs does it have? Is it limited to the cable input, or can I add my OTA receiver to it?

Oh dear, I haven't looked at this thread in a while. Sorry for the delayed response.

Yes, the Moxi PVR records analog cable, digital cable, and HD cable. Unfortunately, there is only the single cable input.

Obviously, you could hook up an OTA unit to a second TV input, but you wouldn't have the DVR functionality for the OTA channels.

It is just too bad that nobody can seem to get this all figured out while staying in business...

just got off the phone with wsmh. The technical guy said they will be on Comcast by month's end and they off air signal will be up by end of November.

just got off the phone with wsmh. The technical guy said they will be on Comcast by month's end and they off air signal will be up by end of November.

I assume you mean FOX-HD. If that is the case, it would be nice if they could get their OTA a little earlier in the NFL season for those of us who can't get Comcast.

If anyone is interested, WJRT-HD is now on Charter in Midland. I don't think that was mentioned before.

If they (WSMH) are finally getting HD going, it's about time.

I'm with Martyr....hopefully that's a worst-case scenario and they can get it up quicker to cover more of the NFL season.

The guy I talked to seem very friendly. He said that comcast had agreed to put in some equipment in wsmh so that Comcast can receive their signal. He seem to be a football fan like me and was pretty confident that everything will be in place by August end. He also mention that the parent company Sinclair had only signed an agreement with comcast to broadcast their signal. Now I am going to bug WNEM about showing HD this fall (especially football).

I have received an email today from the Engineering Manager at WNEM. The budget for upgrading to HD has been approved, and he expects the station to go HD by "Mid-Fall".

Great news for Flint-Saginaw DMA.

Now if the WSMH rumors are true........

Wow, great news from WNEM...thanks for passing that on.

We'll finally get to see CSI and AFC football in HD!

Any updates?

Anyone know what OTA antenna I might need for the Clare area? I want to pick up like CBS & FOX mostly which are out of Cadillac (I am supposedly < 30 miles from them).

TIA.

Andy

AcidMax, this is the right thread. Clare is in the Flint DMA.

You can also post more detailed info (distance, direction of towers, etc.) in the Antenna thread stickied at the top of the forum - and you can get input from others (outside of the Flint DMA) that might not be familiar with Clare's geographic location relative to the stations you should be able to pick up.

If anyone has any info on FOX 66 HD in Flint, I would love for you to share it with me. My boyfriend's head is going to explode if he has to call Comcast one more time. :(

I spoke with the Comcast guy at the mall Saturday and he said that Comcast offered to pay half of the cost to get a direct feed from the Detroit Fox station and WSMH said no. He also said that FOX is waiting for some work permit from the Canadian government before they can do something to get their HD broadcasts going. It did not sound promising for this football season - to me at least. He did not give me any hope for WNEM either.

That's my two cents, I don't know how plugged in this guy was, but he seemed to know what was going on.

Engineering Manager at WNEM responded to my email saying HD by Late November and he did not know if Comcast is carrying them or not.

Hi guys

Before a few years back I posted to this thread. Now I moved 8 miles out west of Midland...out M-20. Before I could get in 2-3 channels with my old Jensen non-powered antenna (WNEM, etc). I bought a new HDTV receiver - the radio shack one that was on clearance (after ebaying the last one for an $80 profit a few years back).

Do I have any hope of getting in the HD channels out here on M-20? We live in a Bi-level so the living room is about 12 feet above ground. The Jensen doesn't cut it at all. I was going to try picking up the Silver Sensor clone.

Antenna web says I need a medium directional antenna...the nearest HD station is 30.6 miles. I was hoping our additional height would help out more.

Anyone have experience with HD reception out here on M-20? Technically, we are still Midland...we are between 8 mile and 9-mile. Will the Silver Sensor or the Zenith ZHDTV1 do it? I read reviews of people getting their signal from 30-50 miles out with it...

Funny note, I tried hooking up the cable coax instead...it is hooked up to the old owner's satellite dish and Charter cable. I got 49% strength on almost all channels but a lot of noise. =(

Fox 66
FYI we are building a new tower and installng HD equipment, but do not expect it to be up until end of the year...depends on weather and equipment delivery. Also working on a deal with Comcast, but nothing final yet.
WRacer
Regional Manager

Thanks for the post WRacer!
I'm assuming that the FCC has granted a constrution permit for WSMH (ch 16) at 1000kw, and that the Canadian interference issue has been cleared up.

I'm looking forward to Fox HD in 2006.

Yes, thanks very much for the post WRacer! Glad to get some good news on you guys.

Keep us informed, if you can...and thanks again!

All,

I just purchase a new Sony HDTV with built-in tuner. I subscribe to dish network, but am looking to add an antenna that will pick up the local stations broadcasting in HD. I live in Saginaw Twp, almost in Freeland. I'm not an AV whiz, so I need some direction. Antenna type, what can I expect as far as stations, dialing in the tuner, etc, etc.

Thanks in advance and feel free to email me direct.

Thanks ~ Patrick

I had luck getting most channels in with the Radio Shack 1880 antenna. NBC (WEYI?) continues to elude me most of the time, but if I am careful (and oddly point the antenna downward a little) I can get it at about 72% and it works for a while.

Most of my testing was during the thunderstorms/rain in the past few days, I will play with it a little more this weekend.

I'm also considering a silver sensor clone instead of the Radioshack 1880, any feedback on which is better?

Radioshack 1880:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/images/ss6.jpg

Without the powered boost I don't get anything, I fear that an unpowered silver sensor would be the same.

Greenmonkey,
I am 5 miles north of US 10, off Jefferson, so probably a bit further than you from the stations except for PBS. I am using a Silver Sensor and pull in ABC, CBS and PBS. NBC eludes me with this antenna. It is however not amplified and I have not tried it with a pre-amp. Antennaweb will recommend a medium directional for anyone in the 4864x zipcodes.

I live in Midland just below US-10 between Jefferson and Eastman. I have a small yagi type from Radio Shack mounted on my roof aimed directly at WJRT's tower. I can only pick up WJRT-HD, WNEM-DT, and sometimes WEYI-HD.

I also have a Channel Master 4228 with a pre-amp and rotor that gives me WJRT-HD, WEYI-HD, WDCP-HD & DT. When I turn it south to Lansing, I can get WLNS-HD (which is CBS) consistantly after dark, and I have been able to tune into WSYM (FOX) and WLAJ (ABC), but only when conditions are right.

I was thinking of moving it higher, but now WJRT-HD and WEYI-HD are on Charter cable. Hopefully they will work out a deal with WSMH-HD and WNEM if they ever move into the 21st century.

Ok, I'm way over my head in this forum, but I thought I would try anyway. I'm looking to place an antenna to draw my local HD stations. I have a Sony HDTV with the internal receiver. I went to anntennaweb and have pasted the results:

* yellow - uhf WSMH-DT 16 FOX FLINT MI TBD 182° 17.9 16
* yellow - uhf WNEM-DT 5.1 CBS BAY CITY MI 99° 12.0 22
* yellow - uhf WJRT-DT 12.1 ABC FLINT MI 182° 17.3 36
* yellow - uhf WDCQ-DT 15.1 PBS BAD AXE MI 85° 21.6 15
* yellow - uhf WAQP-DT 49.1 TBN SAGINAW MI TBD 182° 17.9 48
* green - uhf WEYI-DT 25.1 NBC SAGINAW MI 141° 25.7 30

What antenna shouild I purchase and install? The sattion numbers listed, are they tuned simply by changing the channel on the tv?

Sorry for the simplicity, bt it's all new to me. Thanks in advance!!

Patrick

Kudos to such a great thread. I'm in Frankenmuth and new to the area. Our house is an old sixties ranch, and has one of those gigantic antennas with a rotor, which I think is original equipment. With the advent of HD, it has gone from obsolete to critical.

As suggested in the thread, I tried the Lansing channels. To my pleasant surprise, they all come in with strong signals (70-90%) at least equivalent to the Flint and Saginaw channels. From what I saw last night, it looks like they have more HD programming than my "locals." I also can save a couple bucks a month by dropping local channels from Dish Network (not HD, but a much better picture than analog OTA).

Thanks for your input, everyone.

This is probably a basic question from self-proclaimed newbie, but I thought I would ask it anyway.

I have DishNetwork with an HD receiver and have read some posts here that discuss "moving" to receive other market locals. As I am in Saginaw, would "moving" allow me to receive local HD programming through Dish without an external antenna? Or, am I forced to place in antenna for local reception in HD. Today, I receive Saginaw/Midland/Flint locals through Dish, but have never seen an HD broadcast using them.

Thanks,
Patrick

Someone can correct this if necessary, but DISH will allow you to pick up a network HD feed if your local station is o&o (owned and operated) by the network. I think that you are qualified to request ABC because WJRT is o&o by ABC.

I have heard of other people who live in M/B/S but "moved" to Detroit so they could get CBS in HD, because WNEM does not do HD. It seems to work fine. The only thing to consider is that it puts you in the Detroit market and you take a chance to be blacked out for some of the sports. For example, a couple of years back, the RedWings played nationally on ESPN-HD, but it was blacked out in Detroit because it was also carried by Fox sports but not in HD.

The only "move" that will get you all the network locals on a dish in the Eastern time zone that I am aware of would be to New York. All you need is a viable local address. Just call DISH and "move". Go to their web site and plug in your new address. When it gives you the New York locals, request them. Once you have the locals, you might have to call them again to request the HD feeds. The DISH customer service people seemed very eager to help.

Quakeman, I'm in Clio and the only Lansing station I can consistently pick up is CBS 6-1. What type of equipment are you using? Are you able to pull Fox from Lansing?

Does anyone have any experience with Charter and cable cards in their HDTV? I've heard some horror stories, but it seems to be very company dependent. I plan to get an HDTV once the FP Panny's are in stock again and I'd prefer to get a cable card not a box.

Well, I'm in the stages of moving out to Clio. I know I'm going to lose some stations, probably some Lansing and Detroit. Has anyone heard about 66 going HD yet? I think someone mention ed December. I hope I don't lose too many stations. Anyone in Clio? What stations do you get?

I live in Clio and with an 8bay bow tie I can consistently get the following in HD.

ABC 12-1
NBC 25-2, 3 and 4 I think it is
CBS 6-1 and 23-1 Lansing
All Detroit stations except Fox (Can only get it early morning, then lose it)
Various PBS.

So Fox is the only major station I can't get HD, and I'm still working on that one. I also had read about Fox 66 (16-1) going HD late this year, early next year. Hopefully just in time for the Superbowl!

Is the Superbowl on FOX in 2006? I thought it was on FOX in 2005. This is not important, but the only time I have seen the Lions in HD is the "highlights" on ESPN, rare at best. I think they might even look better in Analog.

I live in Clio and with an 8bay bow tie I can consistently get the following in HD.

ABC 12-1
NBC 25-2, 3 and 4 I think it is
CBS 6-1 and 23-1 Lansing
All Detroit stations except Fox (Can only get it early morning, then lose it)
Various PBS.

So Fox is the only major station I can't get HD, and I'm still working on that one. I also had read about Fox 66 (16-1) going HD late this year, early next year. Hopefully just in time for the Superbowl!

So there is still hope. I know on the house, there is a old 70's still antenna. I have the big radio shack one on the current house. I will see the difference.

It's kinda funny moving to a area that doesn't provide cable. I not old enough to remeber when I couldn't get cable.

So there is still hope. I know on the house, there is a old 70's still antenna. I have the big radio shack one on the current house. I will see the difference.

It's kinda funny moving to a area that doesn't provide cable. I not old enough to remeber when I couldn't get cable.

You can get cable in Clio..., maybe I'm not understanding your post.

You can get cable in Clio..., maybe I'm not understanding your post.

I'm actually in Thetford Twp now. I'm on the other side of Vienna that doesn't have Cable as of yet. Sorry I didn't post that earlier.

Quakeman, I'm in Clio and the only Lansing station I can consistently pick up is CBS 6-1. What type of equipment are you using? Are you able to pull Fox from Lansing?

I've got a huge antennae on the roof with a rotor. We're also on a bit of a hill facing south. The control box looks like something out of about 1972. It was probably cutting edge high tech back then. The previous owner told me he used it to get FM radio from Detroit.

I can get all the Lansing channels if the weather conditions are right. Channel 6 (CBS) always comes in great, which makes up for Channel 5's current limitations. Channel 47 (Fox) and Channel 53 (ABC) are much more spotty. If the weather is clear, I can get a pretty strong signal at night. I was able to watch some of the baseball postseason in HD. Sunday football games are much tougher to get.

I already get the Flint and Delta PBS affiliates, so I have not bothered with Lansing's. Also, Channel 25 has good HD, so I have not tried to get 10. I have not tried the UPN channel either (since Star Trek went away, there's not much point).

I just noticed last night that I get HiDef PBS on Charter cable in Midland. I get it on channel 105.1 with my PC based QAM decoder. I think it is WDCQ, but I'm not sure. It had their fancy Q in the lower right hand corner.

In general, if you are within 45 miles of a transmitting tower you can pick up a UHF station, providing you have a decent 'line of sight'. Of course, a few stations are very weak. I do get all lansing digital stations, loud and clear, from 30-40 miles. In most cases, you will need a very good UHF ant. and a roter plus, just maybe, a pre-amp to assist.

In case some of you don't read the Lansing thread I thought I'd post this here. Gary Bliev from WKAR posted this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by masterdeals
First I've heard of a WB station in Saginaw. NBC 25 airs WB on a subchannel in SD, are they planning on a second transmitter/channel? That would be great with the Pistons in HD. I can't quite get their signal out of Detroit. NBC25 airs the pistons on their subchannel, but only in SD.


The construction permit has been issued for ANALOG television to Barryton Michigan Corporation (from Barryton Michigan LLC, from Acme Broadcasting). Call letters assigned are WBSF, channel assigned is 46, with 1,600kW ERP from a tower north east of Saginaw, Michigan.

Antenna proposed is directional, Lansing is outside of the Grade-B 64dBu predicted coverage contour.

There is NO digital channel assignment paired with that analog channel. The construction permit expires 10/1/2007. WBSF will have to partipate in the FCC's round three to select a digital channel assignment.

Speaking of channel assignments, WJBK in Detroit picked 7 as their DT channel after the transition. I guess they aren't worried about co-channel interference from or to WOOD-DT on 7 in Grand Rapids.

More info on WBSF (WB Saginaw Flint) is available here:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?facid=82627

I would assume they will air the exact same thing coming from NBC25 subchannel 2. The good news is a few years when they are up and running in digital we will have a source for WB (Network programming and Pistons and more sports to come) in HD for those that can't quite get the Detroit station.

Their coverage looks good, especially if it stays the same when they go digital:

http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/TV999232.gif

I don't know the inner workings of the company that is operating this station, but it would seem to me a bad investment to put up an analog system in this day and age when some small stations are killing their analog feed. They already have cable and SAT carriage so they are hitting a big chunk of the market, is it simply to comply with GOV requirements they are putting up an analog station?

Since they don't even have a digital channel assigned it will be some time before they are up and running in DT, perhaps they'll be another WNEM and not do HD. It will be interesting to see how they proceed.

Any word on WSMH 66 yet? Their website still has nothing.

Any word on WSMH 66 yet? Their website still has nothing.

We're building a new tower now, but weather is against us. Now trying to get on by Spring.

We're building a new tower now, but weather is against us. Now trying to get on by Spring.

Is there any word about having Comcast broadcast fox66 before the tower is finish. There goes my Lions game in HD.

We're building a new tower now, but weather is against us. Now trying to get on by Spring.


Except for a little wind over the last 10 days, this has been a good fall. (Just kidding).

What is the deal with WEYI lately? NO HD! Not even any digital some nights. Even when it is working, it has become an adventure to see if it comes back on after a commercial.

How is NBC doing the 3-D thing on Monday evening? Will WEYI bother with it?

I live in Grand Blanc and wonder what stations come in with HD. Currently I get ABC from Directv so I am wondering what else will come to decide if it is worth putting up an antenna. anyone have any input on what HD stations come in? Am I too far to get Detroit stations in HD?

I have a 30 foot tower with amp and rotar, and get all of Detroit stations except channel 56. I also get Lansing stations, channel 6,53,47. Dont have to watch any Flint stations unless i choose to. I would get an outside antenna if i were you. HD comes in much better than cable or satellite. I live in Flint Township. All the channels i listed come in HD when broadcast. Antenna i have is Channel Master 4228 Bow Tie.

I received an email two days ago from Greg Surma after inquiring about WNEM's HD progress. He explained that the equipment is on back order and now they are hoping to provide HD for March Madness. So much for the AFC playoffs. At least Surma is prompt and honest with his replies and I appreciate that.

I also finally received a response from WSMH. I guess the weather has worked against them in the construction of a digital tower. They too are hoping for Spring but we'll have to see.

"Sigh...."

Fairly recent transplant to the Saginaw area from Houston, TX. I have a HR10-250 DVR and receive my locals via DirecTv (std. def) and OTA (digital). I've noticed that the guide data for WEYI's digital channels (25-1 and 25-2) is reveresed. On the TiVo, 25-1 is listed as the WB with corresponding guide data and 25-2 is listed as NBC. In reality, it appears the shows air on the opposite channels.

Has anybody else noticed this or is it something "weird" with my TiVo? Any help would be appreciated.

This might be a dumb question, but I am quite curious. I understand how I can pick up over the air channels using my antenna like 5.1 (WNEM) 12.1 (WJRT), etc. However, when my television is switched to cable, I can also pick up digital channels, 103.4 (WEYI) 104.1 (WJRT).

Am I getting the latter channels through cable?? The lady at Charter said that this can't be the case. Any information would be helpful.

Yep, those are the numbers for the cable HD channels. 105.1 sould be PBSHD aswell. They are unencrypted QAM signals.

Just curious, what kind of a reciever are you using? I can get them using a MyHD MDP-130.

This might be a dumb question, but I am quite curious. I understand how I can pick up over the air channels using my antenna like 5.1 (WNEM) 12.1 (WJRT), etc. However, when my television is switched to cable, I can also pick up digital channels, 103.4 (WEYI) 104.1 (WJRT).

Am I getting the latter channels through cable?? The lady at Charter said that this can't be the case. Any information would be helpful.

Yep, those are the numbers for the cable HD channels. 105.1 sould be PBSHD aswell. They are unencrypted QAM signals.

Just curious, what kind of a reciever are you using? I can get them using a MyHD MDP-130.


Sorry, I haven't been on in a while. I have the Sony KD34XBR960. I have no idea what the tuner-type is.

Hey, thanks for the tip! I just tried it on mine & I get them too. I have a Mitsubishi wd-52525.

Happy New Years Everyone!! I just wanted to keep this thread going. Anyone else here anything from WSMH or any other news?

I heard from a guy yesterday that it was supposed to be up in March. Someone he knows works for WSMH or something like that so I would assume he would be right. We can only hope.

I was playing around yesterday afternoon for the first time in a couple of months and picked up WCMU-DT. It looks like it has started broadcasting on 56.1, 56.2 and 56.3. 1 & 2 are both live. 3 is broadcasting a test pattern. From Midland, signal strength is better than WDCU-DT, however they seem to be having problems with channel mapping.

I was surprised to read this, did a little research and found the transmitter is in the middle of a diagonal line from Big Rapids to Farwell. That's a ways away, are you getting a solid signal? Initially I was thinking about co-channel interference with WTVS Detroit, but at that distance it shouldn't be a problem.

Interesting, I doubt I'd ever see it, but you're far enough north to pick it up.

Matt,
I just checked again
I am getting a solid 65% signal with no dropouts from a Dish 801 using a Silver Sensor mounted on top of my TV with a cheap Radio Shack 10db signal injector amplifying the Silver Sensor. My location is 4 miles due North of Midland City. The Antenna is aimed due west. Antennaweb says I am 50 miles from the transmitter, but I don't believe that as it lists the analog transmitter at 28 miles and a different compass setting. I am more than likely about 30 miles due East of the transmitter.

Went over to:

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/programming/broadcast.php

But heck if I could determine what market would be over on the central to western part of the state that WCMU-DT 56 would serve.

Fairly recent transplant to the Saginaw area from Houston, TX. I have a HR10-250 DVR and receive my locals via DirecTv (std. def) and OTA (digital). I've noticed that the guide data for WEYI's digital channels (25-1 and 25-2) is reveresed. On the TiVo, 25-1 is listed as the WB with corresponding guide data and 25-2 is listed as NBC. In reality, it appears the shows air on the opposite channels.

Has anybody else noticed this or is it something "weird" with my TiVo? Any help would be appreciated.

Just wanted to give an update on this. Found another posting on another site that suggested notifying Zap2It as they provide the guide listings for DirecTv/Tivo. I notified them and looking at the guide for WEYI's digital channels, it appears the issues have now been resolved.

Matt,
I guess the serve the large market of Mt Pleasant. That would be a new DMA 211.
Seriously though, they are the PBS station of Central Michigan University and would be in whatever DMA MT Pleasant is in, which is I am going to assume is FLint/Saginaw/Bay City (64). Since they don't appear to be officially up, they won't appear in the site you are referenceing yet.

Comcast of Flint now has the NFL channel in HD at channel 200.

Any news on when WNEM will be installing their HD equipment? Last I heard it was on backorder..........

Just got an email back from Greg Surma at WNEM. He said early March.

With the end of The WB and UPN and the birth of The CW I wonder what the status of the new WB OTA affiliate is. I wonder if they will try and change the call letters.

Hi - I noticed on channel 5.1 that I get the call letters WEWS-DT and no picture but a signal strength of 89. I did get a picture yesterday on 5.1 that was a PBS signal out of Saginaw. Kind of strange, just wondering if anyone else has noticed this.

Hi - I noticed on channel 5.1 that I get the call letters WEWS-DT and no picture but a signal strength of 89. I did get a picture yesterday on 5.1 that was a PBS signal out of Saginaw. Kind of strange, just wondering if anyone else has noticed this.

WEWS is an ABC station out of Cleveland. Probally a fluke with the weather. I think strong cloud cover can lengethen the reach of some signals.

Midland Charter Cable HD "Rumors"

FWIW, I talked to Charter on Friday, January 27th.

Supposedly on February 1st (today) we'll have the Universal Channel HD added (...[sarcastic] yay...)

On March 1st, we'll get TNT-HD, DiscoveryHD, and CinemaxHD added. This is better news than "Universal," but comes with the caveat that the HD tier pricing will be increased from $3.99 to $6.99.

Still no word on CBS or FOX in HD.

Hi - I noticed on channel 5.1 that I get the call letters WEWS-DT and no picture but a signal strength of 89. I did get a picture yesterday on 5.1 that was a PBS signal out of Saginaw. Kind of strange, just wondering if anyone else has noticed this.

The PBS station out of Saginaw/Bay City is WDCQ and is channel 15.

Bern

Midland Charter Cable HD "Rumors"

FWIW, I talked to Charter on Friday, January 27th.

Supposedly on February 1st (today) we'll have the Universal Channel HD added (...[sarcastic] yay...)

On March 1st, we'll get TNT-HD, DiscoveryHD, and CinemaxHD added. This is better news than "Universal," but comes with the caveat that the HD tier pricing will be increased from $3.99 to $6.99.

Still no word on CBS or FOX in HD.

Universal HD is channel 793 on Charter. I am still hoping for Fox, CBS, and ESPN 2 HD to be added soon.

Midland Charter Cable HD "Rumors"

FWIW, I talked to Charter on Friday, January 27th.

Supposedly on February 1st (today) we'll have the Universal Channel HD added (...[sarcastic] yay...)

On March 1st, we'll get TNT-HD, DiscoveryHD, and CinemaxHD added. This is better news than "Universal," but comes with the caveat that the HD tier pricing will be increased from $3.99 to $6.99.

Still no word on CBS or FOX in HD.
I for one am greatful that we got Universal HD in time for the Olympics.

Any word as to when we'll get OnDemand? I live in Fenton and I'm sick and tired of Charter being behind its time.

Can Charter give us the Detroit CBS and FOX stations, or do they have to wait until WNEM and WSMH are broadcasting in HD?

Did anybody else have severe pixellation problems during the first part of Survivor on CBS (5-1) last night? Problem was so bad I had to switch back to channel 5.

As a note, I was Tivo-ing it and receive 5-1 OTA and channel 5 via DirecTv.

I'm trying to determine if it was a local station issue or a TiVo issue.

I was watching 5-1 & never noticed any problem.

Thanks for the input. It may have been a TiVo issue since the other tuner was busy recording a HiDef show and I was attempting to watch Survivor as it was recording. Might have been too much for the TiVo to handle.

Did anybody else have severe pixellation problems during the first part of Survivor on CBS (5-1) last night? Problem was so bad I had to switch back to channel 5.

As a note, I was Tivo-ing it and receive 5-1 OTA and channel 5 via DirecTv.

I'm trying to determine if it was a local station issue or a TiVo issue.

I don't watch WNEM (5 or 5.1) because they won't pass through HD. Instead, I watch WCBS because I "moved" to Detroit a couple of years ago. I will consider "moving" back to the tri-cities when WNEM starts broadcasting the entire CBS schedule in HD.

WEYI (NBC) has been broadcasting HD for a while now. Why can't they keep HD up and running for an entire evening? Either the picture pops in and out, or they lose HD completely, especially after a commercial.

On a positive note. ABC, WJRT and Charter did an excellent job bringing us the Super Bowl in HD. Special thanks to ABC for placing HD cameras outside the stadium around town. Our big city never looked so good on television. Oh yes, the game looked good also. My picture looked a little better OTA than it did through Charter, and the crowd sounded well in 5.1, though the sound for Stevie Wonder, the Stones and the trophy presentation after the game seemed garbled

Finally, I understand that WSMH (FOX) and WNEM (CBS) are going to be broadcasting in HD this spring. I was wondering if WSMH and Charter worked out their differences so we can see 24 in HD on our cable like the rest of the world.

WEYI (NBC) has been broadcasting HD for a while now. Why can't they keep HD up and running for an entire evening? Either the picture pops in and out, or they lose HD completely, especially after a commercial.

On a positive note. ABC, WJRT and Charter did an excellent job bringing us the Super Bowl in HD. Special thanks to ABC for placing HD cameras outside the stadium around town. Our big city never looked so good on television. Oh yes, the game looked good also. My picture looked a little better OTA than it did through Charter, and the crowd sounded well in 5.1, though the sound for Stevie Wonder, the Stones and the trophy presentation after the game seemed garbled

Finally, I understand that WSMH (FOX) and WNEM (CBS) are going to be broadcasting in HD this spring. I was wondering if WSMH and Charter worked out their differences so we can see 24 in HD on our cable like the rest of the world.

Totally agree on the NBC and ABC comments. Most of the HD problems I have are on NBC while ABC is consistently pretty good (over Charter). I don't know what the differing broadcast specs are (i.e. 480p or 720p or 1080i) but my wild speculation is that part of the problem lies with getting the data through the Charter pipe...

Also, I'd really like CBS and Fox as well. What's really d@mn!ng for Charter, though, is that if you call, they don't even know why we don't have those channels in HD! When you talk to the Charter reps, they are completely in the dark about future availability (plausible deniability perhaps?!? :eek: ). If they had at least told me a year ago (when I started asking) I'd at least know *WHY* I didn't have CBS and FOX in HD. As it was, I spent almost a year believing the rep that told me that they were "negotiating" with the TV stations...

Wow, we were at my brother in laws in Pinconning watching the Super Bowl on Charter HD & it was garbage. The audio thru the whole game seemed to keep kicking in & out of 5.1 or something. Then the second half of the game had "jerky" video until the end. (I'm not sure what the proper terminology is for this. Like the video couldn't keep up.)

Wow, we were at my brother in laws in Pinconning watching the Super Bowl on Charter HD & it was garbage. The audio thru the whole game seemed to keep kicking in & out of 5.1 or something. Then the second half of the game had "jerky" video until the end. (I'm not sure what the proper terminology is for this. Like the video couldn't keep up.)

I was watching WJRT off air thru a Motorola receiver and noticed the same problem during the second half.......The first half was fine.

Bern

I was watching the Superbowl (WJRT HD) on Comcast of Flint. Same Exact Problem...

I noticed the sound problems, but not the picture problems, watching WJRT over the air.

I was watching most of the game OTA, and I did not notice any picture problems or sound problems other than the normal 2 to 3 second COMPLETE LOSS OF SOUND that has been occurring on WJRT-HD every day whether OTA or Charter. I must be getting used to it, because I can't remember being p***** off by it during the game.

Comcast Flint now has Universal HD on channel 208....not sure if anything good is on the channel (though I did notice some Olympic programming in HD).

Btw, why are we still being tortured with the lack of CBS and FOX in HD? 24 and March Madness in HD are #1 on my wishlist (now that football is over)

And in response to what Martyr said....I'm also getting annoyed with how the sound keeps cutting out NOT ONLY ON WJRT HD (ABC), but also on WEYI HD (NBC).

I guess those are my complaints - I'm not some nerd that sits in front of the TV all day...but I think I have the right to whine a little when I spend $130/month on Comcast cable/internet

hello all,

haven't posted in awhile, but i've been perusing these forums again 'cause i'm in a quandary....

currently, i've been using d* for sd and ota antenna for cbs, nbc and abc hd...my contract with d* has been up for a while and i'm shopping around....even tho i've only got 2 other choices (dish and charter).

so, i guess i'm fishing for some answers from you local guys:

* with an sd-dvr with d* i can record 2 different channels at the same time (could also do this with d* hd-dvr)....is this also possible with hd-dvr's offered by charter and dish?

* what model/mfr/type hd-dvr stb's do charter and dish currently have? do they have dvi and/or hdmi outputs?

* how is image quality sd & hd with charter and dish hd-dvr's?

* do charter & dish hd-dvr stb's have a nice on-screen programming/channel guide? easy to display and scroll thru?

just looking for some overall comments on d* vs. dish vs. charter cable for hd-dvr stb operation and user friendliness, sd & hd image quality, hd channel availability, pricing comparison, etc.

i'd really like to see dish and charter hd-dvr's in action before making a new commitment with all new equipment and programming....don't want to unload a small fortune on new hardware again...

it's a shame you can't view these products in action before making a purchase! i've been relatively pleased with d* over the years, but now i'm not sure if they're actually offering the best deal for someone who wants hd-dvr capability and the best hd programming packages....

there is newer technology being rolled out now with d* and their hd programming (mpeg4) that i've been reading about a little, and probably with dish and charter too, but information is so scattered and scarce that it's hard to make an informed decision on which service to use that will remain the best choice in the coming years....

hopefully, you guys in the local midland-bay city-saginaw-flint area can give some good feedback based on the services you use and the experiences you've had.

thanks for any feedback!

also, do any of you guys ever get together for movie and/or sporting events and to discuss home theater equipment/programming/etc.?

i'd be up for joining a local home theater meet!

thanks again!

dave

I emailed John Grover this morning asking if they had a launch date for their digital programming. I had heard it was going to be next month. He got right back to me with this reply:

"Not yet. It will be late spring / early summer. You will need a decent outdoor UHF antenna. WSMH-DT will be significantly less powerful than other DT stations in the market, and cable will not be an option for quite some time (years, most likely)."

Doesn't sound like they know what the hell is going on around there.

I emailed John Grover this morning asking if they had a launch date for their digital programming. I had heard it was going to be next month. He got right back to me with this reply:

"Not yet. It will be late spring / early summer. You will need a decent outdoor UHF antenna. WSMH-DT will be significantly less powerful than other DT stations in the market, and cable will not be an option for quite some time (years, most likely)."

Doesn't sound like they know what the hell is going on around there.

Sorry to say that is SOP for Sinclair owned stations. Read the massive thread in programming that ran awhile back. They do the least possible to meet FCC regulations, no more. Screw the viewer, they don't matter.

This sounds like pretty bad news for FOX HD in Flint-Saginaw. According to the FCC Website they have a construction permit on Channel 16 at only 19.3 Kw. This is anemic and would barley cover their city of license.

On the other hand, WNEM should go live with HD sometime in March according to Greg Surma, Director of Engineering.

Well, as promised, Charter has delivered some more HD Channels. Specifically we started getting Universal HD in time for the Olympics, and then as of 3/1 TNT-HD, DiscoveryHD, and CinemaxHD were added.

Downside is that we're now paying another $5 or so more a month. It is getting a little irritating, but I can't resist the HD content!

I think features/pricepoint/HD capacity solution that is going to work for me will be the Series3 TiVo box replacing the Charter Moxi HD DVR later this year.

Overall, I'm pretty pleased content and speed wise with my Charter Cable Modem and the programming package I have.

Charter now has everything I currently have on DISH except CBS-HD. I don't count VOOM. That makes 11 HD stations plus one partial HD (PBS) now available on Charter. Now if WNEM will get off their cheap butts, I might be able to move back to Midland and get rid of the dish completely.

I am interested in Charter's DVR. Where are you getting your information about the TiVo box?

Finally mvpgoblue, I was not notified of the new $5.00 increase. The three new stations just appeared on Wednesday. Are they just going to surprize me on my next bill?

At the moment the Tivo III unit is rumored to exist, but no one has really seen one. From what I"ve been able to gleen, it has two cable card enabled tuners plus and OTA tuner. The claim is that it will be available late this year, but I'm not holding my breath, though I might be near the head of the line if and when it does come to market. The ONLY thing holding me with D is TiVo, and as I've said before when D dumps TiVo they dump me.

WNEM is now in HD on Comcast of Flint at channel 233. Just in time for the NCAA tourney as promised.

Hmmm, I'll have to tune in OTA and see if that's true there too. Thanks for the heads up.

It wasn't in HD OTA on 5.1 at 9:45 Sunday evening. But then again, I was just thumbing through, and wasn't looking for it. 5.1 was in SD, I think it was Cold Case.

in terms of WNEM broadcasting in HD over the next few weeks. At the same time, that website seems to be late in its HD listings.



Also, I have a quick question for you all. Could a dish from say, DishNet, be used as an OTA antenna? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

You can get OTA antennas that clip on to a satellite dish, but no, the actual dish can not be used as an OTA antenna.

The Charter DVR is called a "Moxi" box, made by a company called Digeo (wich is, like Charter) a Paul Allen affiliated company. There is a MASSIVE thread about the Moxi http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=412846 and that's where I saw the reference to the TiVo series 3 Box. TiVo has confirmed the series 3 box, they demoed a unit at the CES, and claim it will be available in the second half of 2006. You can also go to the TiVo Community page and search the threads for "Series 3."

Supposedly the unit will have six (count 'em!) tuners, two OTA HD, two OTA standard, and two cable (or two OTA, two standard cable, and two HD cable -- I'm not sure exactly how it is set up). The box is cable card ready and has two CableCard slots (one of which meets the CableCard2 specification). Despite the six tuners, you will only be able to record two sources at one time. There is no support for satellite.

There are two very good ways to learn *lots* about the Moxi. First, the thread I linked above; second, one of the regular posters in that thread is named "Splinke" who has written an excellent FAQ: http://users.adelphia.net/~ksoltmann/SPLMoxiFAQ.htm

As to the extra fee, I think we got a junk mail looking notice in the mail a few weeks ago. When I called several weeks back, the CSR I spoke with told me about the increased fee. Either that, or I am totally losing my mind and there is no extra fee after all.

New to this forum and the HD world. Have been reading the forum for a while and have found it very useful. I also found the new Charter HD channels this weekend by surfing. Wish they would inform their customers when new listings are available. I'm sure they will let me know when the bill is due!!! Guess we need to check the channel listing more frequently.

Here's my real question.....I've noticed that WEYI-DT has some audio sync issues. Is it just me or do others see it too? I'm wondering if OTA users are seeing it from the network or if it is Charter. A while back WFUM had the same problems but it seems ok now.

Bill

WEYI has audio sync problems on a regular basis. It seems to be an issue with them not the network or cable distribution.

Also I have comcast in Grand Blanc but, I am not receiving WNEM in HD. I don't have a channel 233.

Well, WNEM is not in HD at least OTA tonight. King of Queens is provided in HD by CBS but I picked in up in SD. Let me know if anyone hears an update.

Its gone today. 233 not even showing up. Hopefully, they're just working out the bugs.

There are two very good ways to learn *lots* about the Moxi. First, the thread I linked above; second, one of the regular posters in that thread is named "Splinke" who has written an excellent FAQ: http://users.adelphia.net/~ksoltmann/SPLMoxiFAQ.htm

As to the extra fee, I think we got a junk mail looking notice in the mail a few weeks ago. When I called several weeks back, the CSR I spoke with told me about the increased fee. Either that, or I am totally losing my mind and there is no extra fee after all.[/QUOTE]


Thanks for the information about the Moxi vs TiVo. I bought a TiVo several years ago and attached it to the TV in the bedroom. It had a problem with the picture which was unwatchable, and the hard drive kept us awake at night.

Anyway, I am glad to see Charter seems to be getting serious about HD, so maybe I should support them by getting their PVR. But now I wonder if I should wait for the TiVo you described. I can use the digital box and my OTA tuner and talk my wife into getting another HD television.

They did catch me with their price increase. It was on the back of a statement I received today.

Thanks again.

I emailed WNEM today and they responded hopefully this weekend they will be showing HD.

Sorry to say that is SOP for Sinclair owned stations. Read the massive thread in programming that ran awhile back. They do the least possible to meet FCC regulations, no more. Screw the viewer, they don't matter.

Actually that's not the case. We have been delayed in getting on the air due to not being able to get a construction permit because of Canadian interference issue. We are now building a new tower and transmission facility and will go on at the current FCC authorized power. We have applied for maximum power and are building the facility in anticipation of having it granted. However, that may not happen until the transition takes place in 2009 when we may be able to get a different frequency. Most of the Sinclair stations are at full power and the remaining ones will be at full power before May. Feel free to PM me or call if you have any questions. I'm based out of St. louis and am overseeing many of our buildouts.
Jim Wright
314-259-5757

Not to beat a dead horse, but how is it the FOX 66 is the ONLY station in this market that didn't get a digital channel? Even the low power stations in Detroit got a digital channel and are up and running, they did not have a problem with Canadian interference.

Are you saying Fox 66 wont be digital until after 2009? I feel sorry for those without a nice big antenna and access to FOX from Lansing or Detroit.

How will the transmission compare to regular analog 66? If I'm picking that up I shouldn't have a problem with the digital should I?

Not to beat a dead horse, but how is it the FOX 66 is the ONLY station in this market that didn't get a digital channel? Even the low power stations in Detroit got a digital channel and are up and running, they did not have a problem with Canadian interference.

Are you saying Fox 66 wont be digital until after 2009? I feel sorry for those without a nice big antenna and access to FOX from Lansing or Detroit.

We do have a digital channel assigned..16. The digital signals propagate much better than analog. For example the maximum power on analog uhf is 5 megawatts, but with digital maximun allowed power is 1 megawatt. We were assigned a freguency by the FCC that might cause some interference to a Canadian station if we were at 1 megawatt. Hopefully after the transition, when frequencies are freed up, there will be one that will allow higher power. There are numerous stations near Canada that operate at lower power and/or with a modified signal pattern.
Jim

WRacer,

Thanks for the updates. I know a lot of people are looking forward to seeing FOX in HD in the Flint/Saginaw area.

FOX should be the organization who is angered by this crap. They provide expensive HD content. To have a local affiliate not prepared to air in digital, is totally unacceptable, I would think.

I wrote Fox66 and received an email from Jim Wright as well. Same stuff. I just think that more people have to complain for anything else to happen.

FOX should be the organization who is angered by this crap. They provide expensive HD content. To have a local affiliate not prepared to air in digital, is totally unacceptable, I would think.

I wrote Fox66 and received an email from Jim Wright as well. Same stuff. I just think that more people have to complain for anything else to happen.

Here's the deal...more complaining won't help. We're doing everything we can to get on the air. Unfortunately, of the 60 stations we own, Flint is the last to get on due to the previously mentioned issues. We're also trying to get HD on Comcast, but have hit a stone wall with them. All equipment is on site exept for a temporary analog transmitter which we are moving next week. If you would like to see our facility and the work that is being done, I would be more than happy to show you around.
Jim (wracer)

Why don't you try to get your HD content on Charter? That would cover BC, Midland, Saginaw, the thumb and points north.

I want you to know that I appreciate the fact that you are willing to keep us informed about the process, but we do want to see FOX in HD. You never know what is going to happen. Jack Bauer only has 12 hours to save the world, and someday, maybe even in my lifetime, our Lions might make the playoffs. It would be great to be able to see either or both in HD instead of the dark and blurry scenes we get now.

Please don't take my venting personally. Infact, I too appreciate the information you are providing. I just want my Lions and MLB in HD!!!!! Oh well, keep working at it guys.

On another manner, my OTA receiver now shows 5-1, 5-2, and 5-3 for WNEM. 5-2 is the SD DT version of CBS, but the other two weren't showing anything. Wednesday only 5-1 was in the memory.

i didn't receive 5-1 broadcasts on thursday evening, or friday morning for that matter...

My Dish reciever switched the channel from 5-1 over to 22-1.

i didn't receive 5-1 broadcasts on thursday evening, or friday morning for that matter...


It looks liked they were broadcasting only SD Thursday evening, but moved it to
5-2.
Anyone heard if they will be using 5-2 and 5-3 when they get the HD up and running?

Certainly looks like they are getting ready to put CBS HD on 5-1. Kind of disappointing that they will simulcast the SD on 5-2.........I hate subchannels......the SD feed just a waste of bandwidth.

Just to let everyone know, I did a sample recording of WNEM and opened it up in tsreader..

The 1080i channel is 15.04 MB/s, which is fairly good. The highest i've seen is WLNS which is about 17 MB/s. Also, there is only one 480i channel that is being mapped to two virtual channels. It's only 2.20 MB/s, so as long as they don't add another SD channel, the HD channel should be fine.

I looked tonight (Friday on our Sencore Investigator and 5-1 was between 15.7 meg and 16.2. 5-2 was as low as 1.6 meg to around 1.9. 5-3 was about 480k. I realize their still testing...I'll post some more results in a few weeks. If they keep the HD that high you guys should be happy.....(I don't have a high def setup...)

Bern

Just to let everyone know, I did a sample recording of WNEM and opened it up in tsreader..

The 1080i channel is 15.04 MB/s, which is fairly good. The highest i've seen is WLNS which is about 17 MB/s. Also, there is only one 480i channel that is being mapped to two virtual channels. It's only 2.20 MB/s, so as long as they don't add another SD channel, the HD channel should be fine.

WNEM up and running showing 1080i on 5-1. It's only upconverted right now but it looks the same as WEYI upconvert (shorters bars on the side). According to the HDSports website, the conference touney games this morning should be in HD on CBS. I am fired up!

Just wondering did WNEM show any of the NCAA games in HD? How was the quality? Unfornunately I am at mercy of Comcast until i get a OTA receiver.

WNEM did not have any HD today. No HD tonight on CBS prime time. They are on 480i with black pillar bars. It seems that they just have to "flip the switch".
It should be soon.

Any word on whether or not Charter will get WNEM HD for the NCAA Tournament? How about the Masters? Funny...these are the same questions I had last year at this time. **sigh**

Charter is now broadcasting WNEM-DT on channel 781!!! WOOHOO!!!

Charter is now broadcasting WNEM-DT on channel 781!!! WOOHOO!!!

I haven't been home yet to check mine, but I'll take your word for it and add a double WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I haven't been home yet to check mine, but I'll take your word for it and add a double WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just checked here and sure enough, WNEM-DT on channel 781. Must have been today, they haven't updated their channel line up yet. Can't wait to see the Masters in HD. :D

WNEM-DT on 781 Charter in Midland. Wonder when it will be full rez and full screen. That makes 13 HD and partial HD stations on Charter. Finally. At least we will get the AFL games in HD. Or will we?

According to WNEM, NCAA should be in HD this afternoon. We'll see what happens. Also, on WNEM's programming site (Titan) their are two new digital channels listed with no programs listed as of yet. 5.3 and 5.4. I haven't been home to check them out yet.

Excuse me, I meant "there," Not "their".

Last Night, (3.15.06) I tried to check in on WNEM (OTA) - normally I'm not a CBS watcher, but WNEM was up in full HD and surround - don't know what show that was just before the news. I also tried to catch David Letterman in HD - I noticed a few audio dropouts here and there, couple of instances where the screen had frozen up while audio continues onwards (for quite some time), I watched only a few minutes because it was more distracting than not. I did not know if it is from my end, but great signal strength for me. Anyway, congrats to WNEM for now bringing us CBS HD! I've been struggling with WLNS from Lansing from time to time - the cold weather was killing my reception where I'm located.

On WNEM's website it now says WNEM HD.

Anyone in Mid-Michigan using a QAM tuner for Charter? It looks like WNEM is running on 103-5...with 103-1 through 103-4 being abc??

Hope you guys are enjoying your Final 4....my wife is pissed that Dr. Phil/Oprah is being bumped. :p

Thanks for the info! 103-5 for me too. Now if we could just get WSMH!!

I just checked, WNEM isn't remapping at this point, found the HD OTA on 22-3. It did have DD5.1 - great!

I saw the Illinois game in HD on 5-1 (781 on Charter) earlier in the evening. 5-2 was the the SD version, and 5-3 was a listing of the match-ups. I checked back about 11:00 and there was no signal at all on 5, and the game that was on Charter was not widescreen, but it had CBS sidelights (like ESPN). Finally I tried Letterman, and he was not in HD on Charter. Again there was not signal on 5.

Was Letterman in HD on 22-3 also?

I am confused by WNEM too. They have advertisments running saying march madness is in HD and the announcers during the current game said the game is in HD...but there are blue bars on the sides. I guess Charter isn't showing the games in HD?

Edit: Nevermind, the blue bars are now gone...wonder why they were there for a while.

rdilliker,

Some of the games are HD and some are not. When they show a game that is not in HD they add the bars on the sides. MSU's game is not in HD.

I saw the Illinois game in HD on 5-1 (781 on Charter) earlier in the evening. 5-2 was the the SD version, and 5-3 was a listing of the match-ups. I checked back about 11:00 and there was no signal at all on 5, and the game that was on Charter was not widescreen, but it had CBS sidelights (like ESPN). Finally I tried Letterman, and he was not in HD on Charter. Again there was not signal on 5.

Was Letterman in HD on 22-3 also?

I watched Illinois-Air Force on Channel 5 over the air. They had it in HD, and widescreen. Then they switched to the Dukies, also in HD. Channel 6, which I have been watching instead, had Illinois cropped like on ESPN HD. It looks like Ch-5 will be the way to go from here on out.

I had a lot of sound problems on Channel 5, a lot like what people were saying they experienced during the Super Bowl.

Just out of curiosity, is there anyone out there north of Clio who can consistently get the Fox channel out of Lansing? I can get it here in Frankenmuth sporadically, and I am wondering if a booster on the antenna might do the trick. If we are going to have to wait several years on 66, then it might be worth it to me.

They are saying Fox should be up by July so hopefully that's true.

I am getting a lot of sound problems on WNEM-HD via charter too during the march madness games. I shouldn't complain too much because the picture is absolutely stunning!

They are saying Fox should be up by July so hopefully that's true.


Perhaps, but it doesn't really matter according to most sources. Only those in Flint can pick it up OTA and the cable channels will not offer it either. So they say....

Tried WNEM on 22-4 tonight it was HD and DD5.1 but I think they are not passing the DD %.1 feed. I flipped back and forth with WLNS (no DD from them..) and did not notice any difference in the sound. In fact after about 11 PM I noticed some echoing in the audio feed. I guess it takes time to get everything working correctly.

I watched Illinois-Air Force on Channel 5 over the air. They had it in HD, and widescreen. Then they switched to the Dukies, also in HD. Channel 6, which I have been watching instead, had Illinois cropped like on ESPN HD. It looks like Ch-5 will be the way to go from here on out.

I had a lot of sound problems on Channel 5, a lot like what people were saying they experienced during the Super Bowl.

Just out of curiosity, is there anyone out there north of Clio who can consistently get the Fox channel out of Lansing? I can get it here in Frankenmuth sporadically, and I am wondering if a booster on the antenna might do the trick. If we are going to have to wait several years on 66, then it might be worth it to me.


I can't even get east of clio. What type of antenna do you have?

I can't even get east of clio. What type of antenna do you have?

Great big old rotor driven thing on top of the house. It looks like it's been there forever, but it seems to work very well.

Perhaps, but it doesn't really matter according to most sources. Only those in Flint can pick it up OTA and the cable channels will not offer it either. So they say....

The Fox 66 transmitter is in Chessaning, so I would think you'd be to get a signal....when we get it built. We'll be on Comcast and Directv...not Charter yet.
Jim

...not Charter yet.
Do you mind if I ask why? Charter is a large provider in the area and I'm sure that the average HD viewer gets his or her HD programming from their cable provider, rather than from OTA. I am quite disappointed by this because I would love to get FOX in HD, but I do not have the money to invest in a large antenna.

Do you mind if I ask why? Charter is a large provider in the area and I'm sure that the average HD viewer gets his or her HD programming from their cable provider, rather than from OTA. I am quite disappointed by this because I would love to get FOX in HD, but I do not have the money to invest in a large antenna.



Probably MONEY!

Do you mind if I ask why? Charter is a large provider in the area and I'm sure that the average HD viewer gets his or her HD programming from their cable provider, rather than from OTA. I am quite disappointed by this because I would love to get FOX in HD, but I do not have the money to invest in a large antenna.

From Fenton you should be able to point a Channel Master 8 bay bow tie at Detroit and get most everything OTA. You might want to search this thread for people from Fenton to see what they are using. Depending on you installation requirements a simple setup could be done for ~ $100 - $125 if you do it yourself.

The Fox 66 transmitter is in Chessaning, so I would think you'd be to get a signal....when we get it built. We'll be on Comcast and Directv...not Charter yet.
Jim
Any news on the possible fiber feed to Comcast

From Fenton you should be able to point a Channel Master 8 bay bow tie at Detroit and get most everything OTA. You might want to search this thread for people from Fenton to see what they are using. Depending on you installation requirements a simple setup could be done for ~ $100 - $125 if you do it yourself.
I do have an large outdoor antenna that, when it worked, could easily pick up all the channels from Detroit and Lansing. I'm not sure what kind it is, though. However, a couple years ago it got struck by lightning and it hasn't worked since. My best option would probably be to get it repaired, but what would need to be repaired to get it working? How much would such a repair cost? Could I do it myself?

Do you mind if I ask why? Charter is a large provider in the area and I'm sure that the average HD viewer gets his or her HD programming from their cable provider, rather than from OTA. I am quite disappointed by this because I would love to get FOX in HD, but I do not have the money to invest in a large antenna.

Charter and our corporate office are still negotiating the retransmission rights. Charter has not agreed to pay what ohers are paying for retransmission rights.

No progress with Comcast on a fiber feed to them.
Jim

I do have an large outdoor antenna that, when it worked, could easily pick up all the channels from Detroit and Lansing. I'm not sure what kind it is, though. However, a couple years ago it got struck by lightning and it hasn't worked since. My best option would probably be to get it repaired, but what would need to be repaired to get it working? How much would such a repair cost? Could I do it myself?

If it got zapped by lightening odds are the downlead is burned and worthless. The first thing I'd do is replace it with some RG-6. Depending what kind of hit it took there could be some damage to the antenna itself, you'd have to examine the insulators and the connection point for the downlead but I would think it'd be fairly obvious if there was a problem.

If you have a rotor that could be the same story, replace the wiring and see what you get. If it worked before odds are it might work with the UHF HD stations. But be aware that some of the old all band antennas are much weaker on the UHF band. I have an old CM Quantum 1160, the best in it's day, and it pulled in a lot of stations, but when i went digital I got zip. I tried a Radio Shack long range UHF antenna and got next to zip. I finally went with the Televes and bingo, 18 DT channels and counting.

So, sine RG-6 is fairly cheap and you might replace the antenna anyway and still need it that's where I'd start. now you just need to decide if you want to climb that tower...

I have to share a bit of irony. On the Simpsons Sunday, Homer goes to Lenny's to watch Lenny's new, HD plasma TV. Homer, of course, basically moves in until Lenny makes him leave.

Homer then goes home, to watch normal TV, and can do nothing but complain about it.

I found this a bit funny, watching Homer whine about regular TV on my HD plasma TV, with WSMH's SD signal-. As Homer put it, it was like rubbing dirt in my eyes. :eek:

Hey guys,

I currently have Charter cable in Saginaw and Dish Network just for some international channels but am thinking of switching entirely to Dish Network to save some money. What do any of you guys think of dish network in saginaw? Do you get all the same locals as Charter and what about the HD locals? What about picture quality, do you feel that Dish overcompresses their content?

Thanks.

I am not aware of any HD locals on DISH for the Saginaw/Flint area even though WJRT is O&O by ABC. I dropped DISH in favor of Charter and my antenna and this works pretty well for me (I get 13 HD stations not counting the sub channels). I had "moved" to Detroit to pick up CBS-HD on DISH several years ago, but I guess you can say I "moved" back when WNEM-HD was born. My only complaints right now are no FOX-HD, and why can't WEYI run HD for an entire evening without losing the picture or giving us the echo chamber?

I read that DISH was moving some of the Michigan locals around to different "birds" but I don't know how that might affect local HD stations on the DISH.

I am not aware of any HD locals on DISH for the Saginaw/Flint area even though WJRT is O&O by ABC. I dropped DISH in favor of Charter and my antenna and this works pretty well for me (I get 13 HD stations not counting the sub channels). I had "moved" to Detroit to pick up CBS-HD on DISH several years ago, but I guess you can say I "moved" back when WNEM-HD was born. My only complaints right now are no FOX-HD, and why can't WEYI run HD for an entire evening without losing the picture or giving us the echo chamber?

I read that DISH was moving some of the Michigan locals around to different "birds" but I don't know how that might affect local HD stations on the DISH.

Thanks for the reply. I checked the dish network website and they say list all the locals for the Saginaw/Flint area but there are no HD locals so I'm not sure what that means. I'll have to give them a call. I too have been very happy with Charter HD but it'd just be so much simpler to have all my programming through one source if possible.