There was an article this morning in the Midland Daily News talking about local stations digital plans, so I think this would be a good way to start an HDTV thread for the mid-michigan area. Link to the article (http://www.ourmidland.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=7769483&BRD=2289&PAG=461&dept_id=472542&rfi=6) It talked about local stations plans for hdtv, and the general concensis was that there's nobody in the market who wan'ts hdtv (WNEM in particular who claims to be the "leader in the broadcast field in Mid-Michigan"). If you live in mid-michigan and can receive these stations dtv signals, give them a short e-mail telling them that people like us do exist, and that we do want hdtv. Here are all their e-mails:

WNEM: gsurma@wnem.com
WSMH: jgrover@wsmh.sbgnet.com
WEYI: jbengtso@nbc25.net

Right now most of these stations think hdtv is a dead investment, so if we can convince them that it's not, maybe they will change their minds about hdtv.

Also feal free to post questions about dtv reception in mid-michigan here too.

Steve

I find this article both interesting and depressing.
Basically, I've given up on Hi-def in our market.
WEYI filed a six month extension when they had transmitter problems, promising in the application to be on the air substantially before May 01 2003. Once approved they seemed to lose interest in fixing the problem.
I'd be surprised if WNEM has 100 viewers and personally I hope they have less. Since they made the decision not to pass through CBS's Hi-def feed, anybody with any gumption and an Antenna has pointed to Cadillac or Lansing. Fox... Maybe they'll build a tower this century. PBS seems to be doing the best that they can with the funds that they have. People can bitch about WJRT's stretch of standard def but at least they transmit, and at a reasonable power.
All in all we have a sorry state of affairs.

What I find most interesting about this article is that WSMH said they could do all the work necessary to upgrade to digital in six months if they had the permit. WEYI has had their permit for coming up on 4 years now, and they still want more time. Out of all the stations in mid-michigan not currently broadcasting, it seems like WDCQ is the only station spending their time trying to go on the air. Everyone else is just trying to find ways to delay going on the air...

I sent Greg Surma at WNEM a message. I don't expect it to do much good. Its in their interest to lowball their viewers. They are Meredith owned and no matter what local execs want they will not get the budget for HDTV. I have no idea where they got the 100 viewership figure from. Sounds like a number pulled from a hat.
I would actually predict their viewership is zero. Anyone I know either pulls WWTV or WLNS.

sjhenry,

How has your reception of WWTV and WLNS been lately? I just got two Televes DAT75's, and using one I was able to pull in WWTV, but I took it down Thursday for more testing and never got a chance to get it back up. I did some more research about long distance UHF reception, and found out that the most common mistakes people in poor signal area's make are 1) not probing for the best signal and 2) not having a view of the horizon. I'm guilty of both, so I think that once I get my DAT75 higher I should have a better chance of receiveing WLNS. Getting a view of the horizon would probably be impossible with all the trees we have in midland, but some extra high should be enough to do the job.

Well. I sent WNEM a note too but I think it will have little effect.

Steve, just out of curiosity have you ever pulled up a topographic map to see what you elevation is? I don't know if I discussed this with you or someone else awhile back. It's been awhile since I've been up in Midland so I don't recall the terrain. I got my info from http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com . I found out I'm at 750'.

Lansing has been coming in so well for me lately that I've pretty much abandoned Detroit. Friday night WLNS hit 100 on my set, tonight WILX was hitting about 88 for Boom Town. Fox is strong too. I only watch WXYZ's ABC feed from Detroit anymore since I'm boycotting WJRT.

I have to believe with dual Televes you should be in good shape up in Midland.

SteveZ,
I missed your PM's until tonight. You have a PM answer.
Whats your elevation based on Terraserver...

Matt,
Midland typically sits between 635 and 690 give or take a foot.
I'm about 3 miles north of town at 690. Most of town seems to be at about 635 to 660 (according to terraserver).

Matt,

I found out my elevation is 625' while the surrounding area's are 750-800', so that puts me at a big disadvantage. This probibly reduces my line of sight to around 50 miles, so with WLNS at 60 miles, thats most likely my problem. To counter this I would need a 100-150' tower, which isn't worth the cost considering that I would only need it for a year or two, or untill WNEM starts broadcasting hdtv. So I'll probibly go for WWTV because of their higher elevation and tower hight. Also about boycotting WJRT because of their strech... it is kind of annoying, but you have to give them credit for being the only station in mid-michigan sending out hdtv and 5.1 sound. So I still think they are a great station. Now boycotting WNEM; thats another story...

Matt,

One more thing... I was able to pull in WSYM-DT a few weeks ago at midnight. (someone must have forgotten to flip the switch) I was amazed to see that they were broadcasting 1080i and 5.1 sound. Do they switch to 480p or 720p durring fox widescreen shows? Prety much all fox's 480p broadcasts have over SD content is their progressive format, so you would think that this would take away from the quality.

WEYI has filed yet another extension today. Their tale of woe continues. To put it in a nutshell it seems that they strengthened their tower only enough to hold one cable. To overcome this problem they have invested in a "Dieletric Combiner". It broke, they shipped it back for repair, it came back broke, then it was discovered that the one they had wouldn't handle their power requirements so they had to order the one they should have funded in the first place. The final piece of the new one will arrive on April 29th. Once the combiner is installed and operational WEYI promises to expidiciously commence operations.
I wait with bated breath.

Steve,

How did you find out that they filed for an extension; that long list of DTV extension inquiry letters on the fcc website? I've heard a lot of conflicting dates for the problem with the combiner to be fixed. A month ago I was told in an e-mail "We don't know the exact timetable however they are talking about Mid June." Then the DTV article in the midland daily news 5 days ago said "The equipment should be replaced in four weeks." Now they are saying four days. I guess we'll just have to wait untill April 29th to find out. Also, I don't know if you've seen it or not, but you have a new PM.

Steve,
You can read their extension letter in PDF format on the fcc website. If you search for DTV and MI, they are the last one to file. In this request they break down their problems in excruciating detail. I didn't get the PM, they seem to take a while to get to me.

Steve

Steve,

Do you have a link to their extension letter? I searched through all the letters in the FCC's EDOCs database, but I still couldn't find it. Thanks

Sure,
Go to here (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_sear.htm)
Select service = Digital TV
Type "MI" into the state.
It will return all 132 applications since inception

Steve

Thanks for the link. I was only looking through the main search page at the fcc website. It's an interesting letter, but I still don't understand why WEYI would keep buying combiners from these people after 3 failures. As for getting on the air, they should have all the equipment by now, but as of 9 PM there is still a black screen on CH 30. Hopefully they will make it on the air by May 1st... I can't wait to see the Tonight Show in HD every night :)

Well, as of 3 PM WEYI is on the air. I got nothing at 12 PM, so they must have gone up sometime between then. At first I got an 81% signal but a black screen, but after a channel scan the channels were remapped to 25-1 WEYI-HD and 25-2 WEYI-DT. 25-2 has a 704x480i signal at 15.00 MB/s, and 25-1 has nothing as of yet. About 6 months ago they were waiting for an upconverter, so there should probibly be a 24/7 signal on 25-1 sometime soon. Now lets just hope the equipment holds out this time...

I finally got around to looking for them tonight. Good strength on both 25-1 and 25-2, but as of tonight 25-1 has no content. I hope they don't do a WNEM.

Steve

What I heard from them was that Wednesday 3PM-5PM they were only allowed to test, and they said they would go on the air once they got an STA from the fcc. And as for HDTV, they do plan on passing the NBC HD signal, and 25-1 shows a 1080i signal, but it is completely black. I think they might be having problems with their upconverter. When I looked and a transport stream from CH30 I recorded, it said that 25-2 was 15 MB/s and 25-1 was 45 MB/s (which is impossible). So im figuring that they just haven't figured out how to use their upconverter yet. They might still pass Law and Order in 1080i at 10PM though...

Steve,
What are you using for recording ?
Steve H

Steve,

I use a MyHD MDP-100. I got it about 6 months ago, and it does a great job of recording. Best of all it can decode a signal perfectly with only 21-23% Plus it was $500 cheaper then most receivers, so thats what really got me. HDTV2MEPG2 has always reported the correct bitrate, so WEYI must not know how to use the new equipment yet... Also do you notice that the audio on 25-2 is really distorted? They said there shouldn't be a problem with it, but even the mono audio on channel 25 analog sounds better.

I only watched the station enough to verify that it was transmitting so didn't notice the audio. I've removed my main antenna in preparation for roof mounting so was just using a small indoor antenna run down from the second floor. Since the wife frowns on cables running from the kids bedroom and down the stairs, I probably won't get a chance to check it again for a couple of weeks.

Steve

Hi all...I'm new just joined. I bought a HD receiver and hooked it up and only got WJRT and WLNS so far...gotta fix the rotor on the tower (30 ft)...its stuck pointing west. I hope I can get a couple of Detroit digital stations if I aim to the SE... I'm kind of in a hole here not too far from the river in downtown Flint.

paultrip,

From your location you can already get ABC and CBS in hdtv, and with a good antenna probibly FOX out of lansing, and prety soon nbc in HDTV from WEYI, so I wouldn't worry about trying for detroit. Before you buy an antenna though, check www.antennaweb.org to see what kind of antenna you would need. Good luck with your reception

Paul, if you can get WLNS you should be able to get WILX NBC too, try 57-3 and see if it comes in. You might need more than a new rotor, I have an older Channel Master antenna that work quite well but I get poor reception in digital. I popped a Televes over it and get most of the Detroit stations, Lansing and a few Grand Rapids stations, but that's a long story...

I'm only a few miles from the WEYI tower, I can see it at night, but the signal level from the Lansing stations beats WEYI. They may be on low power after all their problems, but the best signal level I could get on my RCA is 82. WLNS often hits 100, WILX 88, The Fox station 85, heck even WXYZ from Detroit is running at 85 for me. Only other thing I can think of is overload, but luckily the Telves is very directional and WEYI is not opposite anything for me.

Good luck with your setup, let us know what you end up doing...

I've just recently gotten into HDTV. I bought a Samsung SIR-T151 and a Silver Sensor indoor antenna. I already have one of those Terk wrap-around type antennas that goes on a satellite dish (pretty much sucks).
The Silver Sensor (inside) does about as good a job as the Terk (on roof). I can pick up 5 channels: WDIV (4-1), WNEM (5-1), WLNS (6-1), WJRT (12-1), and WEYI (25-2). The worst reception seems to be WJRT from Flint (which is closest to me!).
I'm located just north of Grand Blanc along Saginaw Rd. Elevation is ~810ft. Lots of tall trees around the neighborhood.
I want to pick up Detroit HD stations. Would mounting the Channel Master 4228 (http://www.channelmaster.com/pages/u1.htm) without a pre-amp get me the rest of the Detroit signals? If not, would the Channel Master Titan 2 7778 pre-amp (http://www.channelmaster.com/pages/ts1.htm) help to get them (don't won't the pre-amp unless really needed)? It will be mounted on a 5ft tripod mount on the roof.

Unexperienced with antennas and such, any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Ken

Ken, welcome to HD! I've read a lot of good things about the 4228, and I'm using the 7778 pre-amp, I think it would be a nice combo, of course with a rotor.

As to what channels you'll get, it's a toss up. You should get 58-2 FOX 2, 45-1 WDIV 4, 41-1 WXYZ 7-2, 14-1 UPN 50, 59-1 WLNS 6-1, 36-1 WJRT 12-1, 22-1 WNEM 5-1, 30-1 WEYI 25-1. Odds are you won't get 44-1 WWJ and 43-1 WTVS. When they go on the air you should get 21-1 WDWB 20-1. I'm waiting for WKAR in E. Lansing to power up, I hope they have Hd capability I would love to see some of the PBS stuff in HD.

Use a good quality RG-6 when you do mount the antenna outside, quad shield might be overkill but it's cheap enough so it might be worth it. I use it for all my Sat. and OTA feeds, I get it from Home Depot.

So far I have been able to get WJRT 12, WNEM 5, WLNS 6, WJBK 2, WXYZ 7 and sometimes WKBD 50 in digital. When I fixed the rotor I put up a new yagi type UHF antenna (it was only about $25 what the heck). I'm also using a generic Radio Shack amp w/pre amp.
One thing I hate about my DTV receiver is getting the digital channels to stay on the guide/list. When you do a scan for digital channels and the receiver doesn't see a signal from a station already on your list...it drops it from the list sometimes. So far I haven't figured out a way to just tune to a digital channel (not already on the guide list) by putting in the channel manually (ie. 6-1 or 41-1 etc). I have the Samsung SIR-TS160.
Any words of wisdom out there?

Paul, I don't have a Samsung receiver but any receiver should let you punch in the channel number and if it's active it should save it. My RCA has a 2 box display, I have to input 41, hit the right arrow and then add 1 or 2 etc. There must be a way for you do do this, is that what you're asking?

What kind of relative readings are you getting on the channels you receive? The RS line of pre amps are kind of a mixed bag, many here report better reception without one, mostly due to a relatively high noise factor. Have you tried 57-3 and 38-5 from Lansing? They come in very strong for me, plus they do DD 5.1, not that NBC does 5.1, but I hear Fox does do 5.1 on some of their programming.

Hey, is anyone seeing anything on WEYI's main HD channel? When I tune it in is see a brief flash of a picture then it's all black. The SD sub channel comes in fine.

Using a Samsung SIR-T151.
On 25-1, I don't even see a brief flash. It's a black picture for me (although it IS receiving a signal).
25-2 works fine though.

Ken

Originally posted by Matt L
Ken, welcome to HD! I've read a lot of good things about the 4228, and I'm using the 7778 pre-amp, I think it would be a nice combo, of course with a rotor.

As to what channels you'll get, it's a toss up. You should get 58-2 FOX 2, 45-1 WDIV 4, 41-1 WXYZ 7-2, 14-1 UPN 50, 59-1 WLNS 6-1, 36-1 WJRT 12-1, 22-1 WNEM 5-1, 30-1 WEYI 25-1. Odds are you won't get 44-1 WWJ and 43-1 WTVS. When they go on the air you should get 21-1 WDWB 20-1. I'm waiting for WKAR in E. Lansing to power up, I hope they have Hd capability I would love to see some of the PBS stuff in HD.

Use a good quality RG-6 when you do mount the antenna outside, quad shield might be overkill but it's cheap enough so it might be worth it. I use it for all my Sat. and OTA feeds, I get it from Home Depot.

On the Samsung SIR-T151, the channel designations are different. E.g. I enter 45 (WDIV-DT) and it changes to 4-1. Or if I enter 4, it changes to 4-1.

I went with the 4228/7778 combo. I have the 4228 mounted on a 5 ft mast attached to a 3 ft tripod. I can pick up all of the Detroit stations, though none of them have a signal strength past 50%. I think I will get another 5 ft mast and see if raising it another 5 ft will help.

Since Detroit has all the channels, I opted to not get a rotor at this time and just keep it pointed in Detroits' direction. I have one of those Terk wrap-around antennas that attatch to a satellite dish (works ok for local stuff) that is multi-directional, so I can pick up signals other than Detroit with it. I just need to get a switch box so I can switch between the antennas if I decide to watch something local.

My antenna cable seems kind of old, so I may run some new cable and see if that improves the signal.

Thanks for the help,
Ken

Ken, some new cable might help but it's a toss up. You say your getting about 50% on most of the Detroit stations, are they breaking up? If the signal is steady, with a few drop outs I'd leave well enough alone. More signal won't create a better picture, just stop the drop outs.

My RCA will re-map the channels too, but I dropped that option since most of the stations don't have th PSIP set right and every time I changed the channel I would see a different time, some stations were hours off. I like to punch the display button and see how much time is left on a show. The other reason is that if I use the re-map feature I am no longer able to get 41-2, WXYZ's weather radar. Something they are doing messes with my tuner and it no longer finds the channel. That is the one feature I really miss with Sat. service, no local radar -- this fills that need.

I'm getting some dropping-out on a couple of channels...it happens every few minutes or so, but the signal strength for those are around 25% or less.

41-2? I'll have to see if I can figure out how to tune that one in. Hmm, what other channels are out there that aren't listed on www.TitanTV.com and www.antennaweb.org ?

Thanks,
Ken

If you get 7-1, then you should get 7-2 (41-2), it's radar all the time. There used to be a 7-3 that was a shot from the tower but they dumped it. What are you after from the Detroit stations? If it's just the Network offerings you might want to try pointing toward Lansing, they have CBS, NBC and Fox in HD and the angle might be enough to pick up 12-1 ABC. They all come in MUCH better than the Deroit stations for me. Downside no UPN/WB, though delayed WB is available on 44-1 WZPX .

Just to let everyone know, about 15 minutes ago I checked WEYI-HD 25-1, and there were 1080i color bars with a high pitched ringing sound. Then about ten minutes later it switched to a perfectly letterboxed 1080i signal! But then about one minute into this the picture slowly started to stretch until it was 14:9... It looks like they are still testing, so lets hope this isn't permanent

For those of you in Flint and are able to receive WLNS-DT:
How does the analog WLNS signal look? Are you even able to receive the channel 6 analog signal?

I noticed on: http://www.cbs.com/info/hdtv/
That they didn't put an asterisk next to WNEM (signifying standard def only). Is WNEM-DT still a 480i only station?

Is anyone able to receive WJBK-DT with a small antenna? (Say, a silver sensor outside)

Thanks!

WLNS puts out a killer signal, I'd almost bet you could get it with a coat hanger. WNEM is not HD, and from some of the snarky comments the GM made I doubt it ever will be. WJBK is a little harder to get you'll need a decent antenna.

Where are you located? If you're in the southern areas you might be able to get by with SS.

I am located near N Chevrolet and W Court St... Thats near the river..

Outdoor roof really isnt an option for me, as this is just a temporary setup... So I hope a Silver Sensor facing south on the second floor will do =)
Detroit stations are approx 45mi away.. WLNS is around 40mi. I tried an analog tv and a bunnyear/loop antenna, and I was able to get WWJ-TV62 with LOTS of snow.. WDWB-TV20 fairly clearly.. WXYZ-TV7 with snow.. No sign of WLNS-TV6 though, but I hope their DTV signal has a better coverage than analog... But I wasn't even probing for signal then..And the latter two stations I mentioned were on VHF.. But I guess with a Silver Sensor, the signal should be much cleaner than with a loop antenna for our DTVs on the UHF...

Is there hope for me?

Thanks!

And I'm guessing WSMH-DT is still a no-show...

Are there any other lansing stations that put out good signals?

Thanks

How about a Channel Master 8 bay bow-tie antenna, it may be a little on the large size but you will get better reception. If you're in an apartment It may be too big, but if your putting it in an extra room upstairs it shouldn't be a problem. :)

If your asking about Ch. 66 it is one of the notorious Sinclair stations, there is a massive thread over in the HD programming forum about how they are fighting going digital, and tried to stop the whole process for the entire country because they didn't want to put up the money. Now that they have to go digital they are dragging their feet and putting out tiny power levels where they can get away with it. So don't look for much, soon...

Well I'm by the river too, just out Flushing way. Luckily I'm on a hill and get great reception. I've been watching Lansing stations more than Detroit since I get a little more signal from them. There is a strong (for me...) Fox station from Lansing on 37-5 , yes 5 -- it should remap to ?. WILX is on 57-1 for NBC from Lansing too, but it may too weak for you to get. I watch WXYZ -Dt not WJRT for ABC for the simple reason that WJRT seems to think I want/like my not HD stuff stretched, I will boycott them until they realize otherwise.

Have you tried WEYI on 30-1? On my RCA unit I get a black screen on their Hd feed but the Std. signal comes in fine on 30-2, I haven't tried them in a month or so , so I don't know what they are up to.

Originally posted by Matt L
WLNS puts out a killer signal, I'd almost bet you could get it with a coat hanger. WNEM is not HD, and from some of the snarky comments the GM made I doubt it ever will be.

They don't do any HD at all? Looks like I'll be pointing north to WWTV for my CBS HD.

Matt or anyone, question:

Does WJRT-DT 36 pass DD 5.1 for Monday Night Football and/or anything else that's encoded as such?

GenoV,

Yep, WJRT-DT passes a 720p hdtv signal wth 5.1 sound when available. I'm watching MNF right now too, so I can confirm that they are broadcasting 5.1 sound. As for WNEM-DT... right now they aren't even on the air, and it will be years before they do hdtv, so your best bet would be to go with WWTV; that's what I do.

Steve

Sorry, had a typo, the Fox station in Lansing is on 38-5, not 37-5.

Steve, could I ask how far you are from the WWTV tower there in Midland? I ask because I was wondering how well I'd be able to pull it in, but if you're receiving it in Midland, I should be golden over here north of Mt. Pleasant.

I just got an email response from the WWTV people stating that they currently are at 175kw of power, 700 ft. up on the tower. They stated that if you can receive WFQX (33 analog FOX) with any picture at all, 40 digital should be no problem. Looks like I'm all set for a CBS HD station!

By the way, their (WWTV) construction permit is for 1000' at 800+ kw, so they should be covering nicely when they go full power.

I'm around 60 miles from the WWTV tower. The funny thing is that I am about the same distance from the WLNS tower, but I can't get anything even though they put out a better signal. Their analog channel 6 comes in with only a small amount of snow with the UHF antenna I use, so i'm thinking they might have reduced the power or tower hight of their digital signal.

SteveZ,
Have you been monitoring 30.1 and 30.2
I tuned in yesterday for the first time in a while and got signal on both but no channel identifier or picture ....

Steve H

Hehe, actually, I'm not at the temporary location in Flint yet..
Currently in the Bay Area, CA so for now I can watch HDTV without any problems. (I am using a Silver Sensor 40mi from the towers though).

Does WLNS show the "It's all here" promo?

No.

Now that's some relocation! There is no way I'd do that! I bet it has something to do with Kettering, correct?

LOL! How'd you guess?
I actually go there. :)

I'm probably one of the few in that place with HDTV capabilities.
Too bad the Campus Village counts the patio as common area though, otherwise I'd probably have the biggest antenna on there I can find along with a dish!

I got tired of the bad quality cable feed.. Kettering basically runs their own cable service with DirecTV.. WKBD from an antenna atop the building is a bit ghosty, but fairly clear.. and WSMH likes to go out often.

Hmmm, you might want to try is the amplified Winegard "wing" antennas. I've go one on my mini antenna farm and it does a good job of pulling in some distant stations. It's about 3' long and 8" wide so you might be able to tuck it in somewhere. It's broadband, and I get a decent signal from most of the Detroit analog stations, I really haven't tried it with my HD unit, I've got 2 other antennas for that, but I think it would work quite well in your situation.

Steve H,

I've been watching both 30.1 and 30.2 for a while now, and so far only the 480i channel has had anything for more than a day. When they first came on the air, 30.1 was a black 1080i signal with no audio. Then about 1 1/2 months ago they had a really nice looking letterboxed 1080i channel, but the audio had problems. The next morning I checked there was a black signal. A couple days after that, there was absoultly nothing on the channel: a 0x0i signal according to my reciever. Then after the big power outage in New York, when channel 30 came back on there was a black 1080i signal on 30.1, but this time it had audio. It's been like that ever since. I'm not really sure when they will be able to do hdtv, so I plan on e-mailing them soon to ask.

Thanks for the antenna suggestion.
Luckly, I chose the apartment on the southern most part. (everyone else who was deciding with me was wondering why I was so eager to choose the south and not the other one on the north :) ).. At least I eliminated some local obstructions.. So hopefully that will help a little... Unfortunately, to the West are the Campus buildings which are around 3-5 stories tall. So I hope that doesnt block WLNS from getting to me...

I'll be sure to post my signal findings here when I arrive.

Originally posted by atperson100

Does WLNS show the "It's all here" promo?

WWTV does the "It's all here" thing. After a while you get tired of seeing it as they use it at every spot where the local is to insert their own ad's.
I live north of Harrison and the signal goes 100% for me with a Televes DAT-75, rotor, 7777 amp, quad RG-6 with T&B connectors. I get WEYI DT with this equipment.
Some people kill me. They buy a high dollar TV and STB, then go cheap on the antenna and cable. Is that not like buying a performance car and then want to stick in the cheap gas....then wonder why it does not go as fast as it should.
If there has to be WAF, then there better be a HAF.

Has anyone with E* entered a zip code that allows local channels, although you live in an area that doesn't? I know of people that do it and still receive their bill at home and can then receive the HD content from another area of the state. I think this may work until the locals are available in our area.

You can do that, but all you're going to get in HD is CBS. E* and CBS have an agreement to allow this in cities with O&O stations as Detroit is. You will never see NBC, ABC and others allowing this.

Best advice, get the best antenna you can afford, a great pre-amp, and enjoy free OTA.

Not true. A friend of mine lives in Saginaw and gave them a Detroit area zip code and gets ABC,CBS,GOX,NBC,PBS,UPN,WB,IND..all on the E*system. He pays the fee for locals for the Detroit market.

"Not true. A friend of mine lives in Saginaw and gave them a Detroit area zip code and gets ABC,CBS,GOX,NBC,PBS,UPN,WB,IND..all on the E*system. He pays the fee for locals for the Detroit market."

Matt didn't say you would not receive these stations. He said that only CBS is offered in HD.

On another subject.
I live in Davison and for the first time last night I was able to receive the Detroit Fox station (58 2-1 and 2-2). Did anyone else notice an increase in their signal.

rnctheba, correct -- you can get SD stations form Detroit on E*, I've been doing that for years. As I said on CBS-HD from Detroit is available on E*. You also have to know while the SD stations are available on E* as they are on D, the quality is somewhat lacking. They tend to be a bit more compressed, causing a "blocky" or "soft" look depending on your provider. Don't get me wrong -the quality isn't that bad, but it in no way compares to a good OTA signal. I use the locals since I have a DTiVo and it makes it easy to record, but my OTA quality(analog) blows the sat. delivered stations away.

Matt, thanks for the clarification. I guess I thought you meant that you could only receive CBS on sat. I am waiting for the Superdish and 921 and will probably make the move then. I can get locals on Charter now but you can't use the 921 to record cable unfortunately.

Any word on WEYI's situation? No response yet to my email sent yesterday.

OK, here's the reply I received from WEYI (NBC):

We are currently upconverting the non hdtv programming supplied by NBC and local syndicators. We will pass any HDTV programming as it is available from NBC. Our DIGITAL channel is 30.

I was under the impression they weren't live yet with their digital programming. The first sentence of this reply sounds like they are, and the second sounds like maybe they aren't. I don't have an STB yet so...can anyone confirm any of this?

Ahhhh, home. Well, not quite... Beaverton... but still in the area. Living in
SC now, though.

Glad to hear the Tri cities are getting HD now. Of course, it'll be another
100 years before it makes it anywhere north of Midland. :)

Well WEYI did do something, I'm just not sure what. They now have 4:3 on 30-3 and 16:9 up-convert, NOT HD as claimed on 30-4. audio seems to be mono over Dolby 2.0. No HD what so ever tonight, Wed. when NBC was full HD.

Sorry for those of you who don't have access to a decent NBC outlet....

Hello Geno,
Were exactly do you live? I haven't purchased any STB yet either and really wanted a HD PVR but that doesn't look to good either at this time. I want the local channels in HD but don't have an antenna yet either. Do you have you HD TV yet?

Originally posted by uscboy
Ahhhh, home. Well, not quite... Beaverton... but still in the area. Living in
SC now, though.

Glad to hear the Tri cities are getting HD now. Of course, it'll be another
100 years before it makes it anywhere north of Midland. :)

Actually, WWTV (Channel 9 from Cadillac) has been doing CBS HD for a few years. They were one of the first around here, IIRC.

Originally posted by tropicaldreamer
Hello Geno,
Were exactly do you live? I haven't purchased any STB yet either and really wanted a HD PVR but that doesn't look to good either at this time. I want the local channels in HD but don't have an antenna yet either. Do you have you HD TV yet?

I live a little north of Mt. Pleasant.

For display purposes, I've got access to an HD projector anytime I need it, so I can tweak my antenna/STB settings with that before dropping the coin for a TV. Maybe by then those DLP prices will come down.;)

I recently purchased a HLN437W and absolutely love it. I got it for $2700 at CC in Saginaw. Seems like we are still a little early for the HD reception on the whole so I guess I will wait till after 11-1-03 and see what D*come up with.

Originally posted by tropicaldreamer
Seems like we are still a little early for the HD reception on the whole so I guess I will wait till after 11-1-03 and see what D*come up with.

Waiting on the locals? Doesn't look like they'll be up on D* until at least late February now, and probably not HD until 2-3 years later.

Hi, good thing i came accross u guys: )

WEYI (NBC) from around 15th of september i recevied both channels 25-1 and 25-2 but it seems like it changed ...

it doesnt show names nor 25-1 25-2 anymore its been 30-1 and 30-2 with no names... +

30-1 is the 704x480i SD 4:3
30-2 is the 1920x1080i HD 16:9

but NBC have both channels broadcasting in Fullscreen 4:3 even though the 30-2 is 16:9 it doesnt show 16:9

i havent seen one show in HDTV From NBC channel 30-2 even though they say Law and Order SVU and whoopi are HDTV it was broadcasted here Fullscreen with channel 30-2..

was wondering is anyone haveing the same problem.. or is it MyHD MDP-100 HDTV PCI Decoder Card..

card that im using...

+ if u check with HDTV2MPEG with the .tp file from eather channel 30-1 or 30-2
you would see 4 pid numbers

PID numbers
31 34 shows 704x480i at 15MB/s
41 44 shows 1920x1080i at 45MB/s
41 45 different audio stream
41 46

dont know if anyone seen this but its worth to check out....

NBC is the only channel that does this to me...

if anyone would input plz do ;)

I have not been able to pick-up any channels from WEYI lately.
I have a Samsung receiver and it shows a strong signal on channel 30 but does not lock-on to any channel. I wonder if WEYI is not sending out the correct PSIP information. I've heard that the Samsungs require more PSIP info than other receivers. Any feedback would be appreciated.

WEYI..

From about 45 miles distant, I receive WEYI (NBC) at 100 percent. They do stretch the 3 by 4 picture. Looks much better on WDIV (NBC)..4-1..Detroit which is shown in 3 x 4 digital picture. Will look for HD during prime time and report. CBS (6-1) and NBC (10-1), both in Lansing area, are strong signals by the way. Soon, from East Lansing, PBS will be on air in Digital. Best way to get ABC is from Flint, WJRT, 12-1. I am lucky, getting the networks in 3 directions.

I'm finally in Flint..
I'm able to constantly get WJBK, WNEM, WDIV, WXYZ, WWJ, and WTVS.. Interestingly WXYZ is the strongest at 90% on the FusionII followed by WDIV 70%. The rest is around 51%-65%.. 50% for me on the Fusion II is borderline viewable. For some reason I'm not able to get WLNS, WJRT, or WEYI.. only blips. When I look at analog ch25, I see severe multipath with my silversensor.. so my building may be causing this problem.

I'm finally in Flint..
I'm able to constantly get WJBK, WNEM, WDIV, WXYZ, WWJ, and WTVS.. Interestingly WXYZ is the strongest at 90% on the FusionII followed by WDIV 70%. The rest is around 51%-65%.. 50% for me on the Fusion II is borderline viewable. For some reason I'm not able to get WLNS, WJRT, or WEYI.. only blips. When I look at analog ch25, I see severe multipath with my silversensor.. so my building may be causing this problem.

I'm finally in Flint..
I'm able to constantly get WJBK, WNEM, WDIV, WXYZ, WWJ, and WTVS.. Interestingly WXYZ is the strongest at 90% on the FusionII followed by WDIV 70%. The rest is around 51%-65%.. 50% for me on the Fusion II is borderline viewable. For some reason I'm not able to get WLNS, WJRT, or WEYI.. only blips. When I look at analog ch25, I see severe multipath with my silversensor.. so my building may be causing this problem.

I'm finally in Flint..
I'm able to constantly get WJBK, WNEM, WDIV, WXYZ, WWJ, and WTVS.. Interestingly WXYZ is the strongest at 90% on the FusionII followed by WDIV 70%. The rest is around 51%-65%.. 50% for me on the Fusion II is borderline viewable. For some reason I'm not able to get WLNS, WJRT, or WEYI.. only blips. When I look at analog ch25, I see severe multipath with my silversensor.. so my building may be causing this problem.

atperson100, I can't recall ANYONE that happy to be in Flint.... :rolleyes:

Just to give everyone an update, the Delta Collage PBS digital channel 15 just recently went on the air. So far I haven't seen any multicasting; just a 10 mbit/s 480i channel with their regular programing. Also it looks like they're operating at a reduced power, or from a temporary tower. I live about 15 miles away from Delta, and I can barely get a signal even with my Televes DAT75 pointed directly at their tower.

Also has anyone heard anything new about WEYI doing HD? So far all I have seen is an upconverted 1080i signal on 30-2. From what I understand once a station can pass 1080i, the network provides all the necessary equipment to get the HD feed for free. Maybe i'll have to send them an e-mail and piont this out to them...

Steve

Steve, Delta's signal must be directional. I'm getting near 100 here in Flushing, a good bit farther away than you with my Televes. As for WEYI, they are the TV equivalent of a Third World Nation, lot's of unrealized potential, and no one that knows how to utilize it...

The Sears Store in Bay City Mall just got their display and have brochures on all the channels Voom will offer

Anybody seen the Sony HD300 at the Saginaw Circuit City yet?

No VOOM at Sears here and the website is not updated and it is after noon now. Not impressed so far.

I havent been able to get WEYI's digital channel for about 2 weeks. Is it down? I have a Samsung DTV receiver and it hasn't scanned it into the guide so of course I cant just tune it in directly. I have picked up Delta's PBS station in digital....no guide info but its coming in on 15-1.

WEYI HDTV Update:

I got this email from the chief engineer at WEYI on 10/08/03:

"I am in the process now of running the wiring to hook up the HD signal so that it can be switched in. I estimate about 3 more weeks."

So if everything goes as planned they should have HD up and running in 4 days or less, but we all know how weyi is with deadlines, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

Steve

So....I guess I can stop cussing out my Samsung receiver for not finding it.
One thing I hate about the 160...it will drop an OTA digital station when it feels like it.

I'm getting WEYI on channel 30-2 30-1. Looks like 30-2 is 1080i 4x3 while 30-1 is 480i and 16x9. The funny thing is the picture doesn't look HD. I'm getting ghost lines traveling from the bottom of the screen to the top. Is anyone else getting this type of reception on from this station? Also has anyone heard when WEYI is going to have the HD signal up and running correctly. If anyone knows please let me know.

I just spoke with my DISH dealer in Saginaw and they expect their order in on Monday. I also read on other forums today that many placed their orders today across the country. Finally!! Now for the 921 and locals.

I stumbled across this thread a few days ago. I live in Midland (near the mall) and have a radio shack UHF antenna (#15-2160) on my roof (over the second floor). I am able to pick up WJRT HD and WNEM DT, and last night I picked up the four digital stations from Delta College, but I am unable to get a digital signal from WEYI (I do get a very snowy analog signal on channel 25). I feel I should be able to pick it up, because WEYI's tower is directly between WNEM's and WJRT's from my home. Do I need an amplifier? I know their signal is weaker.

What type of equipment (antenna/amplifier) are those of you in my area using? Are you able to receive WWTV or WLNS in this area?

I'm glad I found you. I thought I was alone here with my disgust of WNEM and Charter Cable.

Hello Martyr,
I live in Bay City by Meijers on Wilder Road. I can't get anything other than WJRT in HD with an antenna. I gave up on E* and got D* with the HD channels and absolutely love it! I kept the basic Charter cable for my other tvs. I found that WNEM is better off cable than digital. I watched the Buc's game on ESPNHD Sunday night and the camera was in the stands facing the goal posts. As they lined up for an extra point, I could actually see a bolt on the goal post rusting just like it was a foot away and could see each individual air hole in the players jersey like I was holding it! Good luck.

Thanks tropicaldreamer.
I use Charter basic also. I switched from D* to E* last winter because my neighbor's trees kept me from receiving HD. I am pretty happy with their picture quality, but I hear that the superdish will cause them to eventually change satellites and I might be blocked again.

I find WNEM's digital picture is very soft, and I prefer it on cable also. I applied several times for a waiver so that I could pick up the CBS HD feed from E*, but WNEM keeps turning me down. When I called to ask why (I know why), I was rudely told that I cannot call about a "waiver" and they never issue waivers anyway. I find their attitude arrogant, especially since I only want the waiver until they broadcast in HD. I have even considered changing my address for E* so that I could pick up the Detroit locals. That would make their CBS HD feed available, but one of their installers said that they are beaming the Detroit stations, and a lot of people who were carrying one of their receivers up north to their cottage on weekends were no longer able to receive them. I don't want to break the law, I only want to watch high definition.

Sorry for venting.

Martyr, just go ahead and change your address with E*, they really don't care. There are countless hundreds of threads about "Moving", here, in the TiVo section and over a DBS forums. I've done it for years, no problem. I really don't think you will have a problem with reception, you are not that far north. Just pick an address of a gas station or burger King in Pontiac or Detroit and use that address as your location, have the bill sent to your "real" address.

I'm not aware of the location of WNEM's tower (don't really care...) but WEYI's is east of I-75 just a little north of Clio. www.antennaweb.org will give you the exact location if you haven't been there yet.

The F/S/M-BS stations are a joke, soon to be more of one when WJRT starts multicasting. They are one of ABC O&O stations that are doing this. While I can see WEYI's tower at night, and am just about 15 air miles from WJRT I haven't watched them in months, can't imagine I ever will. Luckily I'm in a great spot and get Detroit, and Lansing stations very well so I can ignore the idiots here. I feel sorry for people up north haning to deal with the unimpressive team at WNEM and the stretch jerks at WJRT and the inept engineering group at WEYI, I don't know how this area is 3 for 3. I read over in the Grand Rapids thread that the chief engineer at WNEM quit because of their HD policy, and he's very happy in Oregon or some place on the west coast.

Go for the move, CBS has some of the best HD out there, it's a shame to miss it.

I'm sorry to hear that about WJRT. There isn't that much good programming out there to fill 3 more stations. Maybe they will show 4 games on MNF, and I can pull that old Philco out of my basement and sell my Samsung.

WJRT is multicasting now. They popped in a couple of nights ago. HD on 12-1, SD on 12-2 and Radar on 12-3.

From what I read in another thread this is not the mulicasting I'm talking about. ABC wants to run 3 or 4 SEPERATE channels, like a mini cable or Sat system on the sub channnels. What they are doing now, I believe is, just a test to get the system up and running.

Wow....I just turned my Silver Sensor around to take a look at WJRT.. That stretch IS annoying! Especially on a 4x3 monitor in crop mode.
KGO used to stretch a while ago. They also run a SD duplicate channel, but last I saw they had no radar.
The radar looks more crisp on WJRT than on the other 2 Detroit radars.
When I captured the transport stream, it tells me that 12.0 is using 80Mb/s and 12.1 and 12.2 is using 15MB/s.

I guess I'll keep the Silver Sensor pointed at Detroit.. Too bad I can't get WLNS from here though.

Thanks for the push Matt. It took about 10 minutes. By Saturday I was able to see LSU/Georgia in HD. That gives me CBS and ABC, but I am getting a lot of pop outs from WJRT even though the signal stays above 70. 12.2 and 12.3 are there also. Now I can start concentrating on NBC (WEYI) and hope I don't grow to old before FOX starts broadcasting!

Martyr, glad to hear you"moved"!

BTW, what kind of antenna to you have? There is a fairly strong Lansing FOX station, 38-5. It comes it great for me, I think I suggested if to someone else up your way awhile back and they had no luck in getting it. Anyway it might be worth a try...

Martyr:

Please describe how you managed to beat the 'waver' problem with CBS. I am a fellow Midlander with the same problem.

Paul

You just call E* and change your service address to one that is covered by the Detroit Locals. Fenton is about the cut off point. find an address of a vacant lot or gas station and "Move" there. leave your billing address as is.

Anyone know whether any of the NFL playoffs or the college bowl games will be in HD. I guess the Rose Bowl is out since it is usually on NBC. Any news about WEYI and HD?

I was able to catch the Leno show in HD on WEYI Thursday night (ER also was in HD, but it was on and off during its hour). It was on 30-02. I also heard that Flint/Saginaw locals are on E* now. It looks like the Tri-Cities is slowly being dragged into the 21st Century. I think I will keep my Detroit locals until WNEM comes around though. CSI (both of them) looks great in HD.

Well to make things interesting, D is now going to do what CBS and E* has, offer O&O stations in HD on sat, plus they are talking about adding FOX HD too--not that I need either.

Now, I'm just waiting for the HD TiVo at a reasonable price and I'll be very happy.

Matt, I am lightyears behind you. I have to scramble to get my HD. ABC and NBC are both OTA and both simulcast. I noticed WJRT was running a news broadcast with second stringers at 10:00PM and a rerun of the 11:00 news at Midnight on 12-02. I have to use E to get CBS, but it seems to be the best and most consistant picture, so I have to wonder if WJRT and WEYI are cheating us on bandwidth. If bandwidth is the correct term.

A quick question. When I scan in the digital stations, why do some of them show up on their VHF frequency (WNEM @ 5.1, and WJRT @ 12.1), and others on their assigned digital frequency (WEYI @ 30.2)?

It's called remapping, there is info that is supposed to be included in the signal that tells the tuner how to display the channel number. WEYI does't have the brain power to setup and run their equipment.

Anytime you run sub channels you take something away form the main channel. There is a fixed amount of bandwidth and it can only be divided so many ways before it starts to get ugly. If I was in your position I'd look at Express Vue or some of the other Canadian providers. Lots of folks around the country use this service and get all the network feeds in HD. If I recall correctly they get the Boston feed and the Seattle feed, great for time shifting. You have to use an address broker but it's not that complicated. I know they use the same equipment as E*, I only glance at the threads from time to time so I don't know if you can convert your equipment to from E* to EV but it's something you might want to explore.

I live in Bay City and when I did a digital station scan this morning, I do not pick up 30-02 on WEYI; only 25 with my antenna. I wonder why you can get it and I can not?

I dont get WEYI on digital now & I havent for quite a while. I think they are just testing it sometimes.

I think WEYI is testing also. I received a digital picture a couple of times about two weeks ago, then nothing. Thought I would try it again Thursday. I started about 9PM when ER started, and received a 4:3 digital picture for about 20 minutes, then it just came on full screen and the resolution got better. Every 10 minutes or so, it would go off for a few seconds. HD came on again for Leno and stayed on for the hour. Pretty sharp. Friday Third Watch and Leno came on and stayed. I have not looked at it today (Saturday).

Matt, I have read about Canada, but I have been reluctant to change because I am surrounded by trees. My neighbor has one just under 119 that really bothers me when the leaves are on it. Do they use the same satellites that E* does?

Anybody know a good tree assassin who works cheap and can keep his mouth shut?

Not same sat, they use the same equipment. I think they are at 86 and 92 degrees. KenH has posted on the topic if you do a search I'm sure you will get lots of good info...

Man! Look at all these Tri-City guys! How come we've never had a Tri-City meet?

I hear WEYI has a new owner.. I wonder what that will bring......

Hey it couldn't get ANY worse.....

If you read the Lansing thread someone over there contacted WEYI and said they were very condescending and told them they are not broadcasting PSIP info, and they were meeting all the FCC regulations. Someone posted that their Samsung receiver can't get WEYI's signal because it lack s PSIP, doesn't someone here use a Samsung? Do you get WEYI? I've got an RCA and can get them but I never watch them, WDIV and WILX do a much better job.

I use a Sony LCD front projector and a E* 6000 for HD, and WEYI has been hit or miss since early in January when I was able to get it three evenings in a row. I can register a signal strength, but often it is not strong enough to support a picture. I just get a dark screen. I guess I will have to get up there with an amp when the snow melts.

These locals in the tri-cities are a joke. I resent their attitude that they think they have the right to withhold modern quality service. What really bothers me up is that they won't let us go elsewhere yet they think we don't care. I don't feel bad about trying to get other service, and I will especially enjoy watching the Superbowl in HD on Sunday (except for the teams). With all these chemical engineers here in Midland, you would think they would be interested in quality.

Matt L:

I use a Samsung *D tuner and have a roof top antenna. I only get analog.

Hi all!

Just posting to join the Tri-cities thread. I'm in Midland over by the courthouse, a couple blocks off of Main street. I've got an X1 DLP FP (which is being returned in a couple weeks due to rainbows for a faster color wheel DLP) and a Samsung HD tuner I caught open box @ Best Buy for $169 before I even had my projector.

I've got an older Jensen 'amplified' indoor antenna (not powered though). Me and the fiancee don't really watch much TV but I wanted in on HD for the Superbowl (not a sports guy either, but even I watch the super bowl) and perhaps for the occasional hockey playoff game. I'm a renter so there's not a lot of point in investing in a real antenna at this time.

I can get in WNEM with a signal strength of 30-40% or so, and WJRT comes in tolerably as well. I have no hope of getting in WEYI. :) I actually haven't seen HD on the FP yet, I had it running downconverted to 480i via s-video to my old 27" to check reception, but I'm still in the setting up stage with my FP setup.

Another Midland question.

I live in Larkin Twp, close to the Mall. Looking for some tips, or at least confirmation that it can be done, for tuning WWTV (CBS in Cadillac) or WLNS (CBS in Lansing). I'm using a large VHF/UHF antenna (57 elements, 160" boom with preamplifier) and can get both stations analog signals at 100%, but digital only at 13-17%. Antenna is currently at 20' on a small tower, but could go to 30' with some effort. Tuner is MyHD PC card.

I hear that the Detroit/Colorado game tonight on ESPN is going to be in HD! If so, it will be the first time I ever saw a Detroit team in HD.

...dropping another hint for a tri-city get together...

I see WEYI has their HD channel up and running. I pulled it in at 69% last night.

BTW, for anyone in the Flint area WDWB is up and running in HD on 21-1. I get a decent signal, a few drop outs, but it looks great. don't know how far north the signal gets but you might want to try and pick it up.

Hey Everyone.. Long time since I have posted on here. I do have some quick questions. I'm on the south side of Flint right now and was wondering how big of an antenna should i get to pick up locals for HD? or how small of an antenna can I get for locals? Currently I have comcast and get ABC, nbc (except it looks like crap is only 480. We are thinking about going to D and wondering about the antenna situation. Also, last question :), does anyone have D with a larger screen such as our 51"? If so, how is the pixlation on the screen? I hear that d is only great on screens around 27 inches.

Well if you just want locals you really could get by with a Silver Sensor indoors, but if you want a selection, go for the biggest antenna you can afford. I'm in Flushing and at this point I get about 15 ota HD/DT stations. I'm using a Televes antenna and a Channel Master 77xx series preamp. Overload is not a problem, I can see WEYI' s tower at night from an upstairs bedroom. While the Televes is a little hard to get and expensive now, I'd opt for a good old 8 bay bowtie from CM along with the 77xx preamp, seems to be the hands down overall favorite in these forums.

In case you're wondering here are the channels I get: 14-1, 15-1, 21-1, 22-2, 30-1, 36-1, 38-5, 41-1, 44-1*, 44-1*, 45-1, 55-2, 57-3, 58-2, 59-2 , 43-1* (I'll leave out the call letteres and their remapped locations, too much typing..)

* 44-1 WWJ-DT & 44-1 WZPX Lansing/ GR depending on antenna position, 43-1 Weather dependent due to WZPX analog.

As for D, I've had both D and E* at the same time and I'd say they were about equivalent in quality. On a 55" set you might notice some artifacts, but less with D due to their methods of compression, instead of blocks it just appears softer. If you tweak your set a bit you should be fine. I'm using a 38" direct view and if I get close I can notice it but I tend to watch the show and not the picture so it really doesn't bother me too much, I know others feel different. If your moving up from cable anything is an improvement. I finally got my aunt to switch and there is a world of difference on the analog package level.

Note: if you're looking at D, find a relative or some vacant land in Fenton or below to use as a service address, you can use your home address as a mailing address, this is called "Moving" do a search here and in the TiVo forums if you're unfamiliar with the term. Flint is in a Pegasus area, which means D customers here pay more for less. If you are in Fenton or south, you can get Detroit locals, in Flint there are none yet, possibly in a month or two, but you will still deal with the Pegasus service charge. If you're looking at D then be sure one of your units is a DTiVo, at $99 it's one of the best deals out there. There will be a HD TiVo soon but at $$$. As a previous customer of E*, their service if fine, their PVRs are crap.

Thanks Matt,

Couple other questions. First, which D* local installers would you recommend? I will look into the "move" part. We did have D* about 3 years ago and I personally don't remeber a fee. But that was along time ago. Also, My uncle was reading the message and he wanted to know if you worked at Delphi. Almost ready to drop comcast.. Have the DSL up and running and now it's time for the complete jump..

Matt,
I live in Flint and have D* and I dont go thru Pegasus. I deal directly with D*.
I have a Yamaha projector and a Samsung T160 D*/off the air receiver and I love the quality of the D* HD stations when they broadcast in HD...its awesome. I just got a flyer in the mail from D* and they are adding locals in April. But since I get locals off the air I'm not going to bother adding them.
Paul

jcapone, Can't recommend an installer for D, i do my own installs, for antennas Bruce's Antennas has been very helpful and I can recommend him highly, don't know if he does Sat. No, I'm not at Delphi, must be some other Matt...

Paul, I guess you are right. I plugged a few Flint zip's into http://www.localprovider.org/ and they show Direct as provider, plug in 48433, Flushing, and you get Pegasus. Be thankful you don't have to deal with them, pay more, get less much like comcast. I'd still recommend a southern address if you want Sat delivered network programming to TiVo, which I do. I'd really like to get an HDTiVo, but I'm waiting to see how well they work.

I tried to pick up WEYI tonight (Thursday), nothing. Sometimes I got a signal (up to 50), sometimes zero. From my home, WEYI is almost directly between WNEM and WJRT, so that is where my antenna is aimed. After the two feet of snow is gone, I will have to climb up there and add a pre-amp. Anyway, now that I have "moved", WNEM is no longer an issue and I can aim the thing better.

Anyone catch the Wings on ESPN last week? Was it just me or did the picture slip out of HD off and on during the second and third periods? The main camera seemed to lose resolution and the picture was stretched. Other than that it was a fun game unless your name is Yzerman.

Matt: I will check them out for antennas, as I haven't seen what is avaiable yet. Sorry about the Delphi thing, he just said your name and area sounded real familiar to a guy he worked with. We just got the 10% coupon in the mail yesterday for best buy. Might head that way this weekend to see what type of equipment they have.

Paul: Thanks for saying that Flint doesn't go thru Pegasus. I was getting scared I would have to pay more for D*. I was wondering though what type of antenna do you have and what side of town you on.

Thanks everyone.. You guys have been a great help.

jcapone, It took me 3 tries before I found an antenna that works for me. Luckily for me I'm relatively high, El 750', so that helps. you can check your elevation here http://terraserver-usa.com/address.aspx . I got my Televes back when it was affordable, $75 delivered, now they are up to $150+. In one of the other antenna threads there was a comparison of antennas and the CM 8 bay performance was similar to the Televes, but the CM had a bit broader look angle, gain was quite similar. So armed with that info I'd likely go with the CM today. At this point none of the area channels are using VHF so you can get by with a UHF setup.

A good quality preamp is key too. What you need to look for is very low noise, most of the RS stuff is junk, often you loose what HD you had with a noisey preamp. The CM 77xx series is in short supply at the moment, is very highly regarded in these forums, well worth getting. Check out Solid Signal, one of sponsors here for Antennas, preamps and rotors. They are located near Detroit i believe. If you go with the CM equipment odds are Bruce has it or can get it.

I've had HD for a little over 2 years now and things have really picked up lately. At first there were only 2 or 3 channels available, now in this area we have complete coverage of all networks, which is quite rare from what I read.

I hate to even ask, but...

Any updates on Fox 66?

With Fox corporate beginning to distribute their equipment, I'm going to be anxious for some Fox primetime programming in HD this fall.

Something tells me I'll have to look elsewhere...

Wow, absolute elevation doesn't seem to mean much. I live in Holt at 990' which is basically a swamp, you claim 750' is high, and Boyne City (where I grew up and known for hills and skiing) is at 248'. BTW, from Holt I can pick up WJRT but that's about it except under unusual weather circumstances; no Detroit stations; and most of the Grand Rapids stations.

Originally posted by Matt L
[B]jcapone, It took me 3 tries before I found an antenna that works for me. Luckily for me I'm relatively high, El 750', so that helps. you can check your elevation here http://terraserver-usa.com/address.aspx

Elevation is a relative thing, if I go south from my location 1/2 mile, I quickly loose 25', a little further and it's 50', so in relation to others near by I am at a good elevation. For what ever reason, I seem to be in a great spot 16 channels and counting.

GenoV, no luck getting FOX from Lansing? 38-5? They come in very strong for me.

Matt, I currently only have an attic install and live over by Mt. Pleasant, so Fox from Lansing is not an option right now.

I plan to change to a roof install this spring and will try at that time, but it still might be quite a chore considering the distance to their tower.

I'm in Mount Pleasant. I'm having an antenna installed Thursday, what should I point at? I have several things in a few directions, all about the same 60 mile distance, some shorter, some longer. My thought has been Lansing would probably offer me the most, right?

-Aaron Mitti

mitti, no rotor? What antenna are you getting? The CM 8 bay bow tie is one of the better choices. At your distance you'll want a great pre amp too. Everyone's favorite, the CM77xx series, is in very short supply, hope your installer has one. At your distance there are too many variables to give a definate answer, but Lansing has a much better group of HD stations than Flint, if I had to pick one it would be Lansing. However, Lansing has no ABC HD at this point so WJRT is your most likley option.

Originally posted by Matt L
mitti, no rotor? What antenna are you getting? The CM 8 bay bow tie is one of the better choices. At your distance you'll want a great pre amp too. Everyone's favorite, the CM77xx series, is in very short supply, hope your installer has one. At your distance there are too many variables to give a definate answer, but Lansing has a much better group of HD stations than Flint, if I had to pick one it would be Lansing. However, Lansing has no ABC HD at this point so WJRT is your most likley option.

I don't know what antenna yet. I'm getting VOOM installed with their $0 upfront offer and they're paying for the antenna. If it's not any good I plan on upgrading, though hopefully the installer can make me a good deal if I need to get a better one. To tell you the truth, I haven't had the opportunity to watch local channels in some time, I haven't a clue whats on any of them besides PBS.

I was reading somewhere, I think another thread, about pre-amps, and how they're burn up if they're used too close to a tower. I have WCMU's tower fairly close to my line of sight direction to Lansing. Since I'm not looking for any SD would this be a problem? Do I need a filter to get rid of the SD bands to keep my pre-amp safe? Oh, yeah, I don't have a pre-amp yet either, but I'm going to be working on this all this weekend, doing what I need to see some HD.. :)

I really don't want a rotor because I don't want to have to make my girl friend figure it out. Would it be possible to use two antenna's and point them in two different directions? Bring them in under one cable? Would it be worth it, where else can I point, Flint? What I'd really want is UPN, but I Detroit is the only provider correct, and that's completely impossible?

BTW, I looked up my elevation, I'm 820 feet.

-Aaron Mitti

mitti -

As far as what different directions you can point....WWTV Channel 9.1 from Cadillac (tower is south of there) is a nice option for CBS. You shouldn't have any problem pulling it in with a good antenna. Flint has WJRT 12 for ABC.

Mitti, if it's Voom installing the antenna I wouldn't expect too much. i don't know what there contract states but I'd bet it's just going to be a basic antenna, but I could be wrong. As to the issue with the pre amp, that's a non-issue with any well designed unit. in order to receive HD from any distance you need a very low noise pre amp, the CM 77xx series does an exceptional job. At my location, I can see WEYI's tower at night, it's about 10 miles north of me. I have my CM pre amp coupled to one of the highest gain antennas out there, the Televes 75, and I have 0 problems with overload, so toss that argument out.

From your location it looks like you are dealing with multiple transmitter locations, as do I. Cm also makes a great remote control rotor many here use, it's quite easy after you pre-program it for anyone to use. I guess what I would do is let Voom do the install and then evaluate what you get and then decide if you want to go after more. If you do, you know what your options are. Enjoy your HD!

I live in Harrison and get 2 CBS [Saginaw & Cadillac] 2 NBC, and 1 ABC just fine. I have the Televes DAT-75 and the CM 7777. I use a rotor, and If I did not I would not get half of what I have. As far as the girlfriend and the rotor. With a rotor you can have a better shot of getting what you want and I think it would be best in the long run.
One other thing. RG6 quad shield and T&B Snap-N-Seal connectors.
What is VOOM?

Voom is a third Sat provider that focuses on HD. They offer upwards of 30 HD channels from what I've read. Used to be pricey when they debuted last fall but prices are dropping rapidly. Down to $250 or free depending on what you read, do a search in the hardware section and you'll find much more info. Sears had an exclusive as of last fall, don't know if it's still true.

Jitterbug -

You're not getting HD from the Saginaw CBS are you? I think that would be news to a lot of us.

Also, which 2 NBC's do you speak of, and are they HD as well?

I mean the digital signal 5-1 WNEM, but I use the Cadillac 9-1 for HD. I also get the WJRT ABC from Saginaw 3 signals. 12-1, 12-2, and the weather 12-3. I get the WEYI HD, [or is that the one with the HD signal picked up by the STB and never on?] but I forget what the other NBC is digital or HD?? I forget, will check when I get home. I am just saying I am 35 miles north and can get these stations from the tri-city area so it should be easier for someone in Mt Pleasant. The Cadillac CBS is strong here so he should get that as well.
I have not used my HD in a while. I stuck a scanner antenna on the same mast and it has not been right since. I used to get more regular stations. Waiting for the snow to go away.

Thanks for the info.

Maybe the other NBC is Traverse City (I think it's channel 7)?

I just received my new antenna (CM 8 bow tie model) and the CM7777 pre-amp. I hope to get them on the roof when the snow is gone. Would I benefit by having a rotor with that antenna? I'm sure it is not as directional as your Televes. I live in Midland and get WJRTHD, WNEM digital only, and the ghost of WEYI. After reading you guys, I want to take a shot at Cadillac and even Lansing.

If you're going to the trouble of putting up an antenna and preamp, you should go for the rotor too. Even if you focus on one set of towers, odds are you will have to tweak the direction to get the best signal from each one. I'm not aware of any stations sharing a tower as they do in Detroit, WB, PBS and CBS are all on one tower there, makes pointing simple.

From some of the graphs I've seen, the CM is pretty close on gain, I do believe my Telves has the edge in directionality, just wish it could overcome the WZPX/ WTVS/WWJ issue. I'm looking into filing a complaint with the FCC, doubt it will do any good.

I ordered the rotor today. My current antenna must have moved a little over the winter, because my signal strength for WJRT has dropped about 10% since the fall. WEYI is no longer strong enough to receive a picture, and WNEM is clear as a bell. A sd bell. What's the deal on WZPX/WTVS/WWJ? Are their signals interfering with each other?

Yeah, FCC standard states that DT stations on the same freq. should be at least 125 miles apart, WZPX is "officially" in Battle Creek, but their tower is really closer to Lansing, the towers are just about 90 miles apart. They are assigned analog Ch 43 and Digital channel 44, WTVS PBS from Detroit is on DT 43 and WWJ CBS Detroit is on DT44. This assignment effectively wipes out any reception of WTVS and WWJ north and west of Detroit. WZPX used to be on limited hours and I could watch my signal from WWJ drop from mid 70's to 20 the second they powered up. WTVS has a lot of stuff I'd like to see in HD that WKAR doesn't carry so it's a little frustrating. It irritates me that 2 stations I'd like to have access too are blocked by one I have no interest in (PAX). Apparently stations can control their broadcast patterns, but WZPX chooses not to. I'm pretty happy with WLNS CBS from Lansing, but they don't have DD 5.1 capability, and for the Grammys and other special events CBS does do 5.1 audio. At some point their HD programming will be in 5.1 too, I just hope WLNS get the equipment sooner than later.

Rant mode off....

Well, ordered E* today, which should be installed saturday. Looking to get an antenna sometime this week. I did have one question. I was at a local sat/antenna shop and was looking at the ota locals thru his antenna. I did notice that alot of them where not full screen on the wjrt 12. How do you tell the difference between digital and HD for them, besides when a show is playing in HD?

The sub channels are most likley 4X3, SD. The only true full screen programming is from the networks during prime time and the occasional movie run on some station like WKBD UPN-50, 14-1. WJRT, the last time I looked --and it has been months-- stretches everything that is not HD to something like 14x9, truly ugly to me. This is a practice that is despised by many, including me. I believe a station should send out a "pure" picture, and let the end user distort it how ever they like, let me see the real picture if I want. That's why I refuse to watch WJRT. WXYZ comes in very well for me and I support them. As to how to tell if it's HD, once you see it you won't mistake anything else for HD.

As for the rest of the F/S/BC stations, WNEM has no plans on doing HD, and WEYI is inept at best. If you're in the Flint area I recommend getting the best antenna you can and going for out of market stations. Lansing has a great group of stations, CBS, NBC and FOX, PBS, no ABC at this point; and Detroit has a full roster. It can be difficult to get WWJ, 44-1, and WTVS 43-1, see my post above, but the rest come in great including WB and UPN. As I have mentioned, I'm at 15 HD/SD stations and counting, everything is covered so I'm quite happy.

Well, I picked up a Silver Sensor last weekend just to test and see what i get with my Dish 811 box. I can pick up most locals such as wjrt, wnem, and WEYI. I can also pick up WLNS at about 70%, which I don't think is bad since it's in Lansing. I think i'm going to put up a roof antenna though or if i can find a tower that. Anyone know someone that doesn't want there tower anymore or how much they cost?

On another note.. It seemed to me that WEYI or WNEM (Which ever one was NBC) was a little bit off sync last night when i was watching The Apprentice. It looked great besides the sound though, nothing too noticeable. Looking for ward to picking up the Detroit locals though with the outdoor antenna..

Is anyone able to pick up WEYI in HD? I can finally get a picture again, but it is always 4x3 on both 30.1 and 30.2.

Originally posted by Martyr
Is anyone able to pick up WEYI in HD? I can finally get a picture again, but it is always 4x3 on both 30.1 and 30.2.

Actually ER last night was full screen on 30.2. The apprentice before it was only in 4x3. The Apprentice like i said before looked great. I don't know if they were stretching it for ER or not. The picture was alright, kinda of dark though. Still was better than 30.1.

Could WSMH 66 (16 DT) finally be getting things going soon?

http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/2004/03_mar/news/kma7v40g.htm

According to the FCC database WSMH is still awaiting a permit.

If anyone recalls there was a massive thread over in Programming where Sinclair tried to justify not doing HD, so I anticipate in small markets they will do just what they need to get by without incurring Govt' wrath.

With the state of F/S/BC digital TV I feel sorry for anyone without access to out of market stations.

I am getting tired of waiting for HD here in Midland. Can anyone tell me how to get in touch with one of the Canadian brokers so that I might move? Again!

Do a search in the programming section for Ken H, there is a topic there where he addresses that issue.

I was in CC this week in Flint and the D* rep was in talking with the sales manager. He said that BB & CC will both be receiving their allotments at the same time they are being released to those that pre-ordered through other places; which means a shipment next week more than likely. I hope so. It seems that the Flint CC gets their shipments much earlier than the Saginaw store does.

Just in case you're not aware WLAJ ABC from Lansing is now on 51-1, coming in strong for me. looks like they'll do HD, just hope they don't stretch.

I get blips from WLAJ 51 in Flint.. But that's because I'm using a Silver Sensor and I have a wall and building blocking Lansing. I get their analog UHFs pretty good now after I got a preamp to go with my Silver Sensor. The preamp also lets me get most of the Detroit stations at fairly high signal levels including 43 (which previously would wander between locking and not)

It sure is great reading how all of you are picking up all of these HD stations. I am still struggling with my CBS and ABC. But that's what I get for living in Midland.

Anyway, does anyone know what WEYI is doing with their HD signal? I can seldom pick it up. Usually my signal is zero, then it pops up to as high as 53 for a second then drops back down. Once it even gave me audio, but no picture on 25.2. I was able to pick up Leno a couple of times two weeks ago, but nothing HD in prime time for at least 2 months.

I never watch WEYI but I'll tune in today and see what I get. did you get anywhere with the research on Canadian service?

Comcast customers that are interested in an HD PVR should send me a Private Message with contact info.

Hi all, I just upgraded my antenna and amp last week and now I get the Detroit stations much better. Hardly any drop outs at all now. ABC 7 comes in at 100 percent, 4, 2, 50 come in around 50-75 percent and ch 20 come in around 70-80 all the time. I now have the Sony HD receiver. I put the Samsung in the bedroom.
If you want to know anything about Canadian sat svc just let me know..I have it and love it.

I am still trying to research the Canadian service and have contacted two "brokers". Neither have replied with any info as of yet, so, I am still looking.

Hi everyone. I discovered these forums a couple of days ago, and they have been very helpful. I've had a high definition TV for a year now, but I have had Charter cable and have had no way of watching any high definition programming since I don't have an antenna. I just found out that Dish Network now offers local channels in the Flint area, so now I am considering signing up (and adding the high definition package). I found on the Dish Network web site that UPN 50 and WB 20 are not a part of the package, plus the Flint local channels require SuperDish. Both of those things bothers me. I read somewhere on here about how people will call Dish Network and say that they "moved" to a Detroit address so that they can get the Detroit stations. If I sign up with Dish Network, I'm not going to sign up for the local channels at first so that they don't install the SuperDish. But I would just like to make sure that "moving" is a definite possibility. Will I have any problems if I call them after they install the dish, then tell them I am "moving" to a Detroit address, but that I want to keep my billing address, then request that they add the Detroit local channels? Thanks for your help.

Why are you only considering E* (dish) ? I believe that Linden qualifies for Detroit locals on D, who from my experience has much better and more stable equipment. I've used both D and E* and the quality of D equipment is much better and more easily available that the stuff from E*. You are not going to get any HD OTA stations with either provider, you will need an antenna for that. You can't get both Detroit and Flint locals, it's either one or the other.

Do you have an HD tuner? If so just add a good UHF antenna and you should get all the Detroit HD stations including WB20 and UPN. I'm a bit north of you but with a very good antenna setup I get 16 OTA digital stations. In Linden you should have no problem getting all the Detroit stations, perhaps with a fixed antenna ( no rotor).

If you are after a PRV there is nothing out there better than th DTiVo both in quality and price, I just picked up a 3rd on for $49 yesterday, when the price drops a bit I'll get the HD DTIVo.

I "moved" to Detroit a few months back at Matt L's suggestion. It was not because I wanted their locals, I just wanted to be in the position to get the CBS HD feed. I am not enamored with the quality of the Detroit locals or many other channels on E*, but my year runs out in another two months, and I am looking at other options. I chose E* after having D* for about 5 years because of satellite location for their HD feeds. I could get it with E*, could not with D*. I love the HD on my 61in. sammie though.

I digress. The move has been trouble free except for one thing. It puts me in range of Detroit sports blackouts. It also includes UPN and WB20 which are not available in "Flint".

On another subject, WJRT was not broadcasting their HD on Sunday (at least after 10pm). They had their wide-screen SD on 12-1. I called the news line to ask them to tell the engineer to "flip the switch" and was told that their HD signal belonged to another department and that she had no contact with that department. She thought I was crazy, but I am going to do this every time I notice a problem with WJRT or especially WEYI.

Thanks Matt L. and Martyr.
Matt, the reason I plan on going with E* is because I can get their HD receiver basically for free (actually I'd be leasing the equipment I guess). According to the D* website, it would cost me $299 to get their HD receiver. I would gladly pay that much for a HD receiver, but my wife isn't going to allow that right now (we've got to spend some money on our lawn this summer, among other things). To answer your other question, no, I don't have a HD tuner, which is one reason why I'd like to get the HD receiver from E*.
Matt, you mention that if you add a good UHF antenna I could get the Detroit stations. Are there any indoor antennas or antennas I could install in my attic that would do this, or would I need to go with a nice outdoor antenna for that? Thanks.

For an antenna I'd look at either of these units:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?CAT=Antennas%20TV&PROD=SCM4221A

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?CAT=Antennas%20TV&PROD=ANC4228

they seem to be the hands down favorite around here, plug the model numbers into the search engine and see what comes up. You may be able to get them in your attic, they are flexible --remember attic installs reduce signal strength, you might have to go to the larger unit. These are quite small and an exterior installation is quite unobtrusive.

You might want to give D a call and explain about the E* offer, they may help you out, (see the massive$99 thread in the equipment section). You can get the Detroit locals with a Dish 500 unit rather than the super dish. My neighbor had one put up yesterday, that thing is huge! I had E* for years, PQ is comparable to D, it's the equipment I have a problem with, you might want to check but I don't think you own the box, not that it really matters as long as you sub E*.

Thanks for your help Matt.

Here's my 4228 (and a pre-amp) tripod-mounted on my roof. Since I don't have a rotor, I just have it pointed in the Detroit direction. Signal strengths vary but I get most of the Detroit HD stations (located north of Grand Blanc...Hill Rd @ Saginaw Rd...approx. 810ft elevation).

Baronken, how high is it above the roof. Do you have guy wires attached (I think I see some), or is the tripod just screwed into the roof?

I initially had just the tripod screwed to the roof and one 5' pole (with 3' of it having the antenna attached to it). The tripod holds the pole about a foot above the rooftop (would be more if it were mounted on a flat surface). I added a second 5' pole and guy wires. That puts the vertical center of the antenna approx. 9.5' above the rooftop (single story house).

Ken

Does anyone have any suggestions on Antenna Installers in the Saginaw area? How much does an antenna install cost normally? (I can buy the antenna or they can supply it, provided it's a good one).

Does anyone have any idea when the digital WSMH station is supposed to go live? I know they are still awaiting a permit from the FCC, but I'm just wondering if they're expected to go live by this fall, when Fox is supposed to be broadcasting some NFL games in HD. Thanks.

mhenson, remember they are Sinclair owned so I wouldn't hope for HD. See the massive thread in programming that has died for the moment. Your best bet is WJBK for Detroit, they have the equipment to broadcast HD, and I understand FOX is providing the equipment needed to receive it at the station's head end.

Get the CM 8 bay bow tie and you should be in good shape...

Saturday night after the storms, WJRT HD (12.1) jumped off of my receiver. It is no longer there. I went to 36.1 and can measure a signal 65 to 70%, but no sound or picture. I did a scan using the receiver and can get receiver recognized digital signals at 36.1,2, & 3, but no HD, and also no signal at 12.1. Still no digital or HD picture at all for ABC. Analog is coming in at 12.0 though. When I called WJRT tonight, I was told it was not "my department".

Anyone know what is going on?
Thanks

Martyr, I had the same issue. What ATSC tuner are you using? I'm using a Samsung. It lasted all of Sunday for me as well, I was really looking forward to seeing Harry Potter in high definition last night too :(

I just got back in town, and WJRT HD is still out. I rescanned and still did not receive a signal at 12.1. Now I get a strong reading (83) on 36.1, but no picture or sound. Is anyone getting HD from WJRT? I reached the office of their chief engineer (a Mr. Orvis?) but have not heard back from him.

Received a call from WJRT today. It was explained to me that they had two transmitters working in tandem, and one of them dropped out Saturday night, and they were on "half" power until Thursday. If you lived too far from the tower, you did not get a picture or sound. OK, I believe him. I have to. Especially since he took the time to call me back. Anyway, I am locked into 12.1 and back in business. Thank you John.

I have finally got my setup up and running, and thought I would post what I have and what I've gotten as it may help someone around here some day.

I live in Morrice, just off I-69, right between Lansing and Flint, so I pick up both sets of stations.

First, the antenna is mounted above my garage on a 5 foot mast. It is about 20 feet off the ground in general.

I used a Channel Master 4248 UHF antenna and a Channel Master Rotor (9521)

http://www.channelmaster.com/images/4248.jpg

I also installed a Channel Master Preamp (Model 3041 which is a retail of the Titan 7778) This was all I could find locally and is just slightly less powerful that the popular 7777 model. It has a 23db UHF gain and a 2.2db noise rating.

*** The preamp is very important to success as I tried a generic that was 28db powerful, but had a 4.0db noise rating and had very poor results. Don't skimp on the preamp, it makes a big difference. ***

I use an Dish Network 811 HD Receiver which is fairly new and has some problems, but seems to do the job.

Anyway, here is what I am receiving:

Analog # Digital # Signal Strength Location
6 CBS 59 89 Lansing
10 NBC 57 82 Lansing
18 UPN 34 0 Jackson
23 PBS 55 84 Lansing
43 PAX 44 70 Btl Creek
47 FOX 38 69 Lansing
53 ABC 51 80 Lansing


5 CBS 22 89 Saginaw
12 ABC 36 96 Flint
19 PBS 15 70 Bad Axe
25 NBC 30 89 Saginaw
28 PBS N/A analog only Flint
66 FOX N/A analog only Saginaw

Anyone know of an antenna installer in the Saginaw/Midland/Bay City area. I have a Televes that has been mounted on my deck for a year and really need to get it on the roof. Since the pitch is rather steep, its a bit beyond my DYI capabilities.

Thanks
Steve

Where did you get your Televes?

Matyr,
I purchased it from SteveZ103. I believe he purchased 2 from the U.K looking to stack them and decided he only needed one. You can P.M him to get details on exactly where he got them. I can vouch that its a very nice antenna, although one of my neighbours has commented on the bright yellow color.

Steve

Thanks to all those who responded to the Comcast PVR offer. I have forwarded all information, and you should be contacted, if you've not been already.

All future requests should go directly to Comcast; 800 COMCAST

The Televes is available from CPC sales in the UK. I dealt with Ruth who was very helpful, but that was almost 2 years ago. I love mine, I'm sure you'd be more than happy with one...

I received this note from Delta College (DTV 15) on Tuesday


Since each of you have had an interest in Delta College Q-TV's digital conversion progress, I thought I'd pass along the latest news. Delta has been testing high definition (HD) broadcasting of our signal over the past month or so on DT-15. Beginning at 8pm tonight (June 1), we will be broadcasting in high definition from 8pm each evening until 6am the following morning.
From 6am until 8pm every day, we will continue to offer our four program streams of information, which are:

DT-15.1 - The Delta Learning Channel
DT-15.2 - Today's PBS Channel
DT-15.3 - The Enrichment Channel
DT-15.4 - The Children's Channel

Delta's digital signal is also now carried on the Direct TV satellite service on their channel 35, and will be seen by mid- to late June on Dish/Echostar's satellite service. Of course, our analog service from TV-19 continues to be seen on Charter Cable's channel 9.

We have experimented with the compression rate for delivering the HD service, and think you will find it very pleasing. However, we're always interested in hearing your comments on the signal quality and strength. If you have such comments, please forward them to me or directly to our Chief Engineer Tom Garnett at: tggarnet@alpha.delta.edu.

Thank you again for all of your support over these past months and years as we have transitioned to the latest broadcast technology.

Pam Clark - Station Manager
989-686-9466

I want to thank everyone for their help and guidance over the past few months. I have finished the install of a CM4228 on my roof with the CM7777 pre-amp. It is on a rotor and ended up about 30 feet in the air.
I use a DISH network model 6000 receiver.

I live in Midland surrounded by 60 to 80 ft trees and have been able to receive
12 ABC HD Flint at 80 to 90%
5 CBS DT Saginaw at 93%
25 NBC HD Saginaw 75%
19 PBS HD Bad Axe 75%

6 CBS HD Lansing 55 to 71% (at night only)
9 CBS (?) Cadillac 50 to 55% (only able to receive it a couple of times, and both times CBS was showing a non HD movie.)

No signal at all from
47 FOX DT in Flint
28 PBS DT in Saginaw

I will have to play with it some more, as I am still getting a few drop outs even on the stations with high signal strength.

If I can keep receiving one of the CBS HD stations consistently, I will have to consider dropping DISH or at least cutting back. Since the leaves are on the trees, I lose all contact with their satellite at 119. This does not affect their HD channels or their locals, but it does affect HBO and Cinemax. I tape The Sopranos for my brother who lives in Paris, but was unable to tape the season finale (at 119) this week even though I was able to watch it in HD (at 110).

I won't consider giving up locals unless I can confirm a consistent source of CBS HD from Lansing or Cadillac to replace WCBS. Also, since the Pistons and Red Wings are no longer on WKBD is there an OTA FOX Sports Detroit and a WB station we can get?

Just a quick note to congratulate WFUM DT-52-1 on their official sign-on at 8:00 PM Looking great! HD too! (didn't expect that...)

The local PBS stations have really stepped up, a few months ago I couldn't get any PBS HD, now we have 3, and perhaps for some, 4 PBS HD stations, 15-1 Delta, 55-3 WKAR, 52-1 WFUM, and for the lucky 43-1 WTVS. I've been playing around with the Sylvania HD box I picked up at Sears the other day and have had good luck in picking up WTVS-DT and WWJ-DT both of which have been no shows on my RCA DCT-100. They are not rock solid as the other stations I get, but the drop outs are only occasional. I'm not sure but I think the Sylvania box is 3rd generation, I'd love to see how the new Zenith 5th gen. box performs. Odds are I'll Ebay the Sylvania at some point, just waiting for the D HD TiVo to drop a little in price.

Hi,
I'm in Mount Pleasant and would like to get some HD action going. I'd be willing to have an installer put in an antenna but am not sure if it would be worthwhile.
Should I just go with cable or DISH or what?
Are there any installers or folks willing to set me up for $ around here?
Thanks!

Martyr, sounds like you're doing OK, just a couple of corrections. FOX 47 is Lansing, their DT is 38-5, WFUM flint just went live at 52-1 in HD, looks great.

Which coax are you using, how long is the run?

Depending on how much you want CBS HD, I'd try a couple of different STBs. As I mentioned in my prior post I'm playing with a Sylvania unit I picked up at Sears, they and BB and CC have easy return policies so you can try a couple of different units and see if they impact your reception. They are not cheap, the only reason I picked up the Sylvania was the price, marked down for $349 to $139, and I'll likely Ebay it at some point and recover the cost. It does seem much more sensitive than my RCA DCT-100 and I had a solid signal all night on WWJ-Dt (CBS ) Detroit --which I rarely was able to get before, and I also got WTVS-DT which I could never get before with only a few drop outs.

WFUM official information reguarding their conversion:

http://www.wfum.org/aboutus/tech.html

Thanks for setting me straight Matt. I was trying to find WSMH FOX DT @16, but I don't get a signal there either. I turned to the general direction of Lansing, but could not get a signal on 47 even though WLNS was holding steady at about 75%.

I have 100 ft of quad shield cable. What I was not prepared for were the number of connections I had to make. Antenna to pre-amp, pre-amp to grounding block, grounding block to splitter (I'm trying to run to 2 televisions), splitter to pre-amp, Pre amp to line conditioner then to the television.

In spite of all that, the signals are pretty good. I do have a problem with dropouts on WJRT. Channel 12 even disappeared from my lineup for about a half hour the other night, then it came back on. The same thing happened a few weeks ago, and they told me one of their "transmitters" went down, but then it took about 5 days to get it running again. Unfortunately, the Piston game was unwatchable in HD. Tonight (Friday) it was a lot better, but there were still dropouts even though the signal hovered around 75%. What is funny is that WEYI which is a lot weaker and about 10 miles further, comes in very well with no dropouts.

What really frosts me is that the strongest signal I get is from those S*B's at WNEM, and they refuse to do HD. So now I have to depend upon a signal that shows to be about 75 miles if I want CBS in HD.

Acropora,
There is a company on M-20 west of MP called Microtech. They were doing antennas, dishes and towers about 4 years ago. I did not do business with them, but they were nice enough (for what it is worth).

There is also a company called T&A Service in West Branch. They did some repair work on a Samsung DLP for me last fall that I am very happy with. I asked them about antennas and they do install antennas and dishes also.
I still have their number, let me know in a PM if you want it.

Hmmm, 100' of quad isn't bad but I'd try without the splitter and see what you get, with marginal signals it sometimes will make a difference. Odds are it won't matter but I'd go for the straightest path and add stuff back as you go. Dumb question but you did use RG 6 Quad ends didn't you? They seem to be in short supply at my local Home Depot, and once or twice in an emergency I've had to use a std. RG 6 fitting, a real pain...

At this point WSMH FOX Flint is a no show, have no idea when they might go live or what they will pass. for more accurate info on distance and direction plug your info into this site: http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp there is a link to get your Long. and Lat if you don't know it. Seems to be very accurate and it may help in pointing your antenna.

Thank you Martyr, I'll look em up!

For the first six connectors I used RG6 fittings that I bought at Lowes here in Midland. They were the type that are compressed from the end and forced down on the wire using an allen wrench. They fit very well, but the device used to compress them kept "stripping", and had to be replaced. I used three of them before I got tired of driving back to Lowes to return it. The others were purchased at RShack and were listed as RG6 with directions on how to handle quad cable.

Saturday evening, WLNS came in at 65% and stayed. WEYI came in at 75% and stayed, and WJRT was at 85% with drop outs every couple of minutes, and they are the closest of the three.

I think I got that website from one of your posts before. I will take a look and see what else I have been missing. Thanks Matt.

Originally posted by Baronken
Here's my 4228 (and a pre-amp) tripod-mounted on my roof. Since I don't have a rotor, I just have it pointed in the Detroit direction. Signal strengths vary but I get most of the Detroit HD stations (located north of Grand Blanc...Hill Rd @ Saginaw Rd...approx. 810ft elevation).

I am thinking of getting the 4228 as well. I have experimented with some large Radio Shack antennas but I don't get the Detroit stations. I had some questions that I hope you could help answer. Did you have to use the amplifier to get the Detroit HD stations? With your antenna can you pick up the Flint HD without moving your antenna? I am just a bit south of you and according to Antennaweb the Flint stations and Detroit stations are 180 degrees apart.

Originally posted by tltwood
I am thinking of getting the 4228 as well. I have experimented with some large Radio Shack antennas but I don't get the Detroit stations. I had some questions that I hope you could help answer. Did you have to use the amplifier to get the Detroit HD stations? With your antenna can you pick up the Flint HD without moving your antenna? I am just a bit south of you and according to Antennaweb the Flint stations and Detroit stations are 180 degrees apart.

Hi tltwood, welcome to the forums!

I think I could get some of the Detroit stations without the amp, but not all. With the amp I get them all and have good signal strength.
As for the antenna picking up Flint stations, I'm not sure how many I can get as I just remove them from my list if/when I do a channel scan. Since Detroit covers all the channels and I can receive them and local news is not important to me, I see no need for me to pick up Flint stations.
If you go without a rotor, you might try a Silver Sensor indoor antenna which isn't very big at all (with an antenna A-B switch) that you can manually align to tune in Flint channels.

Good luck,
Ken

Thanks a lot!

I appreciate the advice and after some more research it looks like I will be copying your set up.

Has anyone seen the WFUM nature shows, man do those look awesome!

Does anyone have anything good or bad worth noting about the Dish 811 HD STB? I was thinking of cancelling Dish service and just keeping the box for OTA. The unreturned charge is only $200 which is a good deal for an HD receiver.

tltwood, you may want to do a little research on the 811, if I recall correctly I think it's inoperable if it's not sub'd. I may be wrong, but you need to check into it. My favorite DBS site is down at the moment, but check www.dbsforums.com when they are back up. Check out BB and CC you may come across a deal on an open box unit, for less.

WFUM does look good, last time I check it looked like they fixed their sound sync issue. Have you tired to pick up WDCQ, 15-1 from Delta college? They look great, but I don't know if they do DD 5.1 as WFUM does.

Originally posted by Matt L
[B]tltwood, you may want to do a little research on the 811, if I recall correctly I think it's inoperable if it's not sub'd. I may be wrong, but you need to check into it. My favorite DBS site is down at the moment, but check www.dbsforums.com when they are back up. Check out BB and CC you may come across a deal on an open box unit, for less.


I picked up the Dish 811 when they first came out with a 3 month wait, but got it for $149. The $200 promo requires a 1 year commit to the HD pack, at $10 a month, so consider that as well. I have been happy with both the receiver and the HD programming. It was nice to see Dish launched TNT-HD just in time for the NBA playoffs. They plan to add more HD, but bandwith is the biggest problem.

The 811 receiver does have some bugs in it, but it is tollerable and still works good. The www.dbstalk.com site has a long but informative forum about the 811 and its bugs. The biggest one was dark output on SD channels but that has been mostly fixed. The current bug that affects everyone is that you cannot use the recall button to go from an OTA channel to a SAT channel. Considering that is the biggest problem left, I think it is a good receiver.


Bottom line - the Dish 811 will not work without a Dish subscription. But it can still receive OTA programming even if you do not subscribe to the HD Pack ($10/month extra).

Dang, I was bummed that the 811 does not work without the satellite hook up. Oh well, looks like there are better products out there for close to the same dollar figure.

Haven't got my sound hook ups done yet so I will have to wait and see on the 5.1. Has anyone checked out 15-3 and 15-4. I think they were supposed to be broadcasting today if I remember right.

-Tim

Oh man, forget the 811, I want the 3410!
http://store.hdtvtime.com/hdtvtime/consumer-electronics--tuner.html

The bummer is I will probably just get the 3100.

I was reading on some other boards about local HD stations being sent unscrambled using QAM on analog cable. Has anyone tried that locally with Comcast? If so, which tuner were you using?

The Olympics are coming up. How do you think our local affiliate will handle it? Do they have the hardware in place to do 8 hours of Olympics/Day?

I don't know why not, The equipment doesn't change.

Hey Guys,

I have finally got my antenna off the house and on to a 35' tower. I seem to be picking up alot more stations. Can anyone post the channels they are recieving? I want to see what I can get that I don't have already.

BTW: WFUM HD is looking great. I've been gone for a while and just noticed it was online.

Hi
I get the following stations in digital:
Flint/Saginaw: 5, 12, 25, 28.
Lansing: 6
Detroit/Southfield: 2, 4, 7, 20, 50
Bad Axe 35
I have an 8 bay UHF antenna on a rotor. It is a VERY directional antenna. But
it works very well when pointed in the right direction...lol and a CM amp.

I have at times got ch 10 and 53 from Lansing/Jackson but just at times.

Paul

OK:
Detroit: 2-1, 4-1, 7-1, 20-1, 50-1, 56-1, 62-1 (later two mostly solid with an occasional drop-out)
Lansing: 6-1, 23-1, 10-1, 47-1, 53-1
Flint:12-1, 25-1, 28-1, 5-1
Bad Axe 15-1
Grand Rapids (actually Woodville west of Lansing) 44-1

If you're counting that's 18! ;)

Boy it must be nice to live near civilization where you have choices. I am just cycling through 5.1, 12.1, 15.1 and 25.1 from Flint/Saginaw, 6.1 from Lansing, and once in a while 9.1 from Cadillac and feeling pretty good about my self now that my antenna has been on my roof for about 2 months and has not fallen down yet. My golf clubs sit in the garage and my new hobby is chasing HD locals. I'm about as successful also.

Anyway, I hear that Charter is broadcasting some HD on cable here in Midland. I was wondering if anyone out there has seen it and is it worth a look. The rep told me they would have HD locals by the end of summer. I'm not sure what that really means considering the state of our locals, but I won't hold my breath. But, if anyone has seen it what is the PQ?

I am getting frustrated by the lack of HD I want to watch on Comcast. Does anyone else have comcast HD in this area? It is so annoying that they don't have CBS and FOX! Football season is quickly approaching and I want to watch the games in HD. To make it worse they don't have an OTA capable tuner. If anyone hears when we will get those networks and when the dual tuner DVR will be available please share the info and I will do the same.

tltwood, The most likely reason you don't see CBS and FOX in HD on Flint's Comcast is that the local stations don't offer them. WNEM refuses to do HD, the GM says we're not worth the money, and WSMH FOX is owned by Sinclair, which says it all. If that reference doesn't make sense to you do a search on Sinclair in the HD programming section...

Unfortunately, you're going to need an OTA tuner --now under $200 if you shop around, and a decent exterior antenna if you want either of those feeds.

Anyway, I hear that Charter is broadcasting some HD on cable here in Midland. I was wondering if anyone out there has seen it and is it worth a look.
I don't have it, but one of my J6P type folks here at work has it. As far as I understand, they generally watch movies downloaded from the internet at home (what a waste of a good RPTV), and their DVD is an old HTiB unit hooked up via s-video. They've got a 47" Panny RPTV.

But they are pretty happy with it. I guess it's only a couple of bucks more than normal service and it looks really good to them.

I was able to compare Olympic HD coverage broadcast by WEYI OTA today vs the same coverage broadcast by E*. Both pictures were spectacular, but you could see some pixilation on the WEYI coverage during the closeups of the swimmers. I had read on other threads here that E* would be broadcasting the coverage at its full bandwidth, and I could not see the same pixilation.

WEYI did not lose the picture, but during that competition when they showed a close up head on shot of the swimmers in the water, for a few seconds it was like looking through a screen door. I see the same effect on PBS out of Bad Axe, especially with splashing water or anything else that causes a lot of activity in the picture.

I don't want to criticize either station, but I'm assuming the problem is due to simulcasting and lack of bandwidth. Anyway, thank you WEYI for broadcasting the HD feed of the Olympics today.

Boo to WNEM for not passing through the HD feed of the PGA tournament from Wisconsin. I'm glad I was able to pull in WLNS and WCBS. I will not watch golf in SD anymore, and I never watch WNEM anymore.

Not sure if this is HD related or not, but I saw an ad the other day on either WEYI or WNEM that referred to "Mid-Michigan's WB...coming soon". Anyone heard anything about such a development?

Well, WEYI had WB programming for years. They would run it at 2 or 3 in the morning if I recall correctly. It was a waste.

Odds are if it was on one of those stations you mentioned they will run it on a sub-channel in limited SD not HD. WNEM is the likely candidate since they are adamantly anti HD they have tons of unused bandwidth. I find I watch more WB than most networks, I like a lot of their programming. I remember when they first stated up against UPN I thought they were a joke, now they are going strong and UPN is almost non existent, with rumors the plug will be pulled later this year.

Ahh, thanks for the info Matt.

The closer it gets to football season, the more tempted I am to start sending notes to advertisers on WNEM and WSMH about me watching football on other CBS and FOX stations for their HD offerings. I could do completely without WNEM due to the strength of WWTV at my place, but other FOX pulls are a little more difficult. I hope the rumors are true about Sinclair making a push to get their NFC-area FOX stations up with the splicer system....but I'm not holding my breath.

Hello everyone....

I'm new to the Midland area....from CA....in fact, I emailed a few of you a couple of months ago re: OTA reception.

I'm on D*, but wanted to see what I could pull in. I mounted my Zenith silver sensor just under the eave of my roof and was able to pull in 5-1, 12-1, 15-1 and 25-1.

I'm really thinking I might want to get a nice antenna on the roof....maybe even an omni-directional to prevent the need for a rotor, but I've read the omni-directionals may not receive as well.

Anyway, I'm mulling over what I might want to install. I watched Mon.Night Football on 12-1 and it was stunning. I was dismayed to see that when I dialed in 5-1 for some CBS HD programming, that it was listed as HD in the guide, but the picture was 4:3 and not HD....what's up with that??? 25-1 was regular NBC, but 25-2 was HD (delayed programming Olympics). 15-1-2-3-4 was different PBS programming.

Anyway, any thoughts or feedback would be great. The only distributor for Winegard or CM antennas close by seems to be Bursma Electronics in Bay City. Anyone know if they just sell or do they install as well?

I enjoy the forum!

Dave

Welcome Dave, a little change from CA I bet...

WNEM is anti HD, so don't expect much from them unless CBS starts twisting arms. Martyr who posts here and lives in Midland posted he was getting WLNS out of Lansing for CBS, you might want to check with him about his setup. You might want to consider "moving" your D address to Macomb, down by Detroit, it's the only area near by that gets CBS HD on D. If you're after FOX you may be out of luck though, nothing in the works.

Midland is a great town, I may head up there the second week of Sept. for the balloon event, always lots of fun.

Bursma is sell only and usually has good prices.

I purchased the channel master 4221, tripod, 10' mast and a rotor from Bursma. I cut the mast into 3' and 7' sections to accomodate the rotor.

With everything assembled and just standing up on the ground, I get 5-1, 12-1, 15-1 and 25-1 with much higher signal strengths (70-100) than I was with the silver sensor (20-70 and consistent drop-outs).

I also receive ch. 66 (fox) from Flint and about 18 analog stations. Not sure if I even needed the rotor or not, cause it looks like I can keep it pointed at about 150 and get 'em all.

I'll probably mount this on the roof this weekend, then I should be set.

Any ideas on when 5-1 (cbs) might transmit some HD?

Also, any forecast on when ch. 66 (fox) will transmit digital on ch. 16?

Thanks!

Everyone,

MisterDTV, (whom you may or may not know is a Sinclair exec) checked in in another thread with an update about WSMH (FOX 66). At least we're getting some feedback.

Link to MisterDTV post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4263050#post4263050)

Yeah, sure. Any excuse. Funny, ALL the Detroit stations, as well as WJRT, WFUM are able to get approval and get their tower up and actually broadcast but Sinclaire is still whiling and blaming the FCC. Way to run a business, claim to be trying and avoid spending the money -- great for their bottom line -lousy for the "customers" they claim to serve. Odds are they will wait until the very last minute that the government allows before going digital. Note: I did not say HD.....

I took Charter Cable up on their 30 day trial offer on digital service and HD. It was installed on Friday. I am fairly impressed, but then it is easy to impress me. The SD channels are much clearer than the analog was, and the HD (HD Net, HdMovies, ESPNHD, HBO and SHOWTIME) looks pretty good. I still have E* HD, (same stations as Charter, plus WCBS HD, Discovery HD, TNTHD and for the last two weeks, NBC's feed of the Olympics) and when I compared the channels, the E* picture was softer and very clear. The Charter HD was very sharp, almost as if the sharpness control was turned all the way up. All in all it was acceptable.

Having all these sources will make it interesting when football begins in two weeks. I caught the Lions on WKBD on satellite and cable (cable was better), and OTA on WNEM DT here in Midland. Of course WNEM's digital signal was much sharper. What was interesting was that the New England game was in HD on WCBS, but not in HD on WLNS or WWTV ota (though I admit I only looked at them for a few seconds). I wonder why it was not passed through. though.

I now have fairly reliable sources for HD CBS, NBC and ABC, but from Matt's post it looks like WSMH (FOX) is still stalling. It must be nice to be able to screw the government and the public AND have a license to do it. I have been searching of and on for other FOX stations that might be broadcasting DT or HD, but have not been able to pick up anything. Maybe when the leaves fall.

I just got my Dish 34" HD package today. Very impressed with the Dish HD channels. Could only pick up one local HD channel (WJRT-12) with my indoor antenna. I stopped by Sears today on the way home from work, and bought a Zenith Silver Sensor, and now have all the locals that are broadcasting in digital: WJRT, WNEM, WEYI, and the PBS. The weakest signal stregth is the PBS, coming in at 77-79% on my Dish OTA receiver. The best is WJRT which is coming in at 95-95%. Tonight was the first night I've seen Monday Night Football in HD. I am disappointed that WNEM isn't carrying any HD content (as far as I can tell via TitanTV.com).

Mike

Welcome Mike, Refresh my memory, where is Freeland? Isn't it up toward Clare? If so, with an outdoor antenna you might get WLNS from Lansing, CBS in HD. They put out a strong signal, but at the moment they lost HD ability due to a power surge, should be back to HD in a few days.

Matt,

Interesting....Is the Lansing CBS station channel 6-1?

I noticed the difference on CBS last night between 5-1 and 6-1. Channel 6-1 filled my screen (16x9), but I thought it looked "stretched" not like a true HD picture.

I opted to move my antenna from my roof on a tripod mount to a 20' pole mount right next to the house, but I still get all the locals pretty well....channels 5-1, 6-1, 15-1, 25-1 and also 66 (soon to be digital channel 16, I hope...).

MNF was awesome tonight as always!!

Yep, 6-1, or 59-3....

Originally posted by Matt L
Welcome Mike, Refresh my memory, where is Freeland? Isn't it up toward Clare? If so, with an outdoor antenna you might get WLNS from Lansing, CBS in HD. They put out a strong signal, but at the moment they lost HD ability due to a power surge, should be back to HD in a few days.

Freeland: Small town (mostly country) between Midland and Saginaw...


Mike

Mike, Martyr who is in Midland reports he gets WLNS, so if you really want CBS HD you might want to check and see what he is using, might be doable for you too...

Thanks for the info on WLNS. I was wondering what happened. WCBS did not broadcast in HD Monday evening either, so I was getting concerned.

I use a CM 4228 antenna at about 30 to 32 feet, with a preamp and a rotor. I get WLNS anywhere from 55 to 85% depending upon the weather. There has been only one time when I was not able to pull it in. No matter what the signal, it stays pretty stable throughout the evening. I live a few miles north of Freeland, near the Midland Holiday Inn.

Two techs from Charter Cable were over today and "tweaked" my signal. I am very happy with the HD and SD now (so far). The HD tonight looks as good as E*.

Thanks guys. I'm sure that I could pull in more stations with a larger rooftop antenna, but for now I have to be content with my Silver Sensor.

How can you find out what signal the OTA stations are passing? I've looked on a few websites to see if they were 480p vs 720p vs 1080i, but I can't seem to find the info. The WNEM and WEYI look pretty good right now, but are nothing compared to the WEYI HD feed...

I am actually north of Freeland, just over the edge into Midland County.

Mike

Hi all, new guy here. I am new to the world of HD, but recently purchased a Sony Grand Wega HD along with a Samsung SIR-TS360. I have Direct TV as my provider. The HD channels on Direct come through brilliantly, look amazing. However, what do I need to do to get my locals in HD? Direct TV claims that if my locals broadcast in HD (which I read in another forum that they do) that I should be able to get them in HD. That isn't the case... and I didn't think it would be.

So my question to those in the know is, what do I need to do do get Flint/Saginaw/Bay City locals in HD? Would an indoor antenna work, or do I need to get a roof mounted one? Direct offers a roof mounted one for like $75 bucks, anyone have any experience with those? Once I am able to get them, will they show in my normal guide as 5-1, 12-1, etc...? I did a scan and those added to my guide, but of course they were just static.

Thanks for any guidance you guys can provide.

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone else out in this area has had any trouble receiving WJRT ABC 12 digitally? I've been picking it up fine up until about a week ago, and can't tune it in since!! I get WFUM PBS 28 from Flint well, and their transmitter is further away from me than ABC12 - I've tried rotating the antenna every direction. This is the only channel that has just completely blanked out on me and I haven't a clue what to do? Nothing changed - equipment or connection-wise and like I said, I used to get it perfectly. All other channels are fine and as they were. I have a mast antenna and I live in Frankenmuth. It sounds like a local issue at my end, because an earlier poster remarked about MNF coming in well this past Monday. I'd appreciate any suggestions, if you have any, if you need more info to help me, please let me know. Thanks a lot!

Praveen

kdubey, welcome to another new member! In Clio you should have no problem getting the basic local channels, 12, 25, 28 and 5 ( of little value) with an indoor antenna. Sears has the Silver Sensor, with is the favorite in these forums, you can try it and if it doesn't do the trick take it back. If you go back a bit here, you will see I get 18 OTA channels, with a high gain antenna /preamp combo. If you want to get a selection of channels I'd go for the Channel Master 8 bay bowtie, sorry, don't recall the model number, mounted as high as you can with a CM 77xx series preamp. This should give you access to Detroit stations, the only WB HD outlet around, as well as Lansing, CBS HD and FOX HD. The equipment may be $100 + but odds are you won't be sorry. I wouldn't let D install anything, you need to make the decision on equipment. Scan through this forum and see what others are using, you won't be sorry.

Alias123, my MNF came in great. I have been "glued" to WJRT TV12 since I got my set. My signal strength (as shown on my E* 811 with the Silver Sensor antenna) comes in consistently in the 92+% range.

Mike,

Thanks for the feedback. I used to get in the area of 92 with WJRT, but now I get 49 and that's not enough to even put a picture up on the screen! I just get 'broadcasting not available'. I just don't understand what happened to that particular channel in my situation? Really strange!

Have you tried doing a rescan of your channels? sometimes the PSIP info messes up some tuners programming. Do a rescan and if that doesn't help unplug the unit for as long as you can to clear the memory and then do a new scan. Often that solves the problem.

Matt,

Thanks for the advice...it worked! I had thought about a rescan, but somehow was thinking with all this high tech gadgetry a simple 'reset' wouldn't address the problem - and I was worried that I'd even lose more channels! Oh well, I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same! By the way, what is 'PSIP info'?

Glad to hear your problem is solved! PSIP is the info that tells the receiver that channel 36-1 should show up as 12-1 and also has program info embedded in it, as well as time. All stations are supposed to support this but some send bad info that causes problems, not on purpose just because they don't know how to use their equipment. Luckily, with my main unit I can turn off the PSIP, with it on I lost several sub channels, and I could watch my on screen clock jump to various weird times and dates based on what channel I was on. Don't know if you can get it but WB 20 sends info programming info out, it's the only one that comes to mind, but others may too.

Matt L - I did as suggested and picked up a silver sensor and then ran a scan. It picked up about 5 channels if I recall correctly. Only one however, NBC 25 (can't recall the call letters) comes in HD. For some reason I couldn't pick up ABC 12 in HD, which is the one I really want due to MNF. It found channel 12, but it was analog I believe.


Any suggestions?

Thanks

Punch in 36-1 and see if it remapps to 12-1. You should be able to get 5-1 (CBS NO HD!), 28-1(PBS HD), 25-2 (NBC HD), 12-1(ABC HD) 15-1 (PBS HD). You can try moving the SS outside, I've read of people who have mounted them under an eve for protection. Barring that you may just have to get an external antenna. Just for the heck of it try: http://terraserver-usa.com/address.aspx and check your overall height. You might be in a little valley that is causing problems. When I plug my address in I'm at 750'.

I got bored last Friday, so I decided to call the engineering departments of WNEM, WEYI and WSMH to find out when they would be transmitting in HD. (Actually, the real reason was because I realized that I had never seen a home team in HD except for the Pistons last year. No Lions, Tigers, Red Wings, UofM or MSU).

WNEM: "Well we are considering upgrading our equipment, but it will be at least a year before we can consider it financially. It is very expensive." When asked where I might receive CBS now, he suggested aiming an antenna at Cadillac for WWTV or Lansing for WLNS. He did not think they would issue a waiver for satellite.

WEYI: They have not been transmitting HD for about a week, and told me it was due to an equipment problem but they would be up and running that evening. They were for about an hour and a half, then went down again. I checked them out Sunday evening and they were showing HD.

WSMH: "We are waiting on a ruling from the Federal Government, because of our location so close to Canada we were only given the authorization to put out a very low powered signal. You can only get our signal in Chesaning or St. Charles". He did not expect any HD in our area from FOX for at least a year or two.

Anyway, I felt I was getting a little truth and a little bs. But I was wondering, why can't WSMH and WNEM deal with the local cable companies to pass their network's HD signals through the cable system and save the cost of transmitting over the air until it was financially feasible for them? Those of us interested in network HD could subscribe, and both the cable system and local station could earn some money until they go completely digital (HD I hope).

why can't WSMH and WNEM deal with the local cable companies to pass their network's HD signals through the cable system and save the cost of transmitting over the air until it was financially feasible for them?

Actually, from what little I understand, WSMH (FOX 66) is a Sinclair owned station and Sinclair's whole "strategy" is to provide signal over the air. I got the feeling that they are trying to tweak the current business model and maybe tap into a more lucrative fee program for them from the cable companies using this shift in technology as the catalyst.

Also, I don't know much about their FCC licensing situation, but you can't get any closer to Canada than the Detroit area stations (at least in the lower peninsula) and they all punch out OTA DTV signals just fine. WJRT (ABC 12) transmits HD, I think they have a tower in Chesaning and they don't seem to have a problem with the FCC holding them back, so I'm not really understanding WSMH's problem, but I'm generalizing (I don't know what specifics are involved and they don't seem to be offering any more info other than "blame the FCC, not us.")

As far as WNEM (CBS 5) is concerned, classic problem; it costs a lot of money to implement! They'll need to take that plunge sometime, I guess it's just going to be later rather than sooner. They have their digital signal up, but nothing doing with HD (and the sad part for us is that so many people on these boards seem to complement CBS for their HD quality)!

To be honest, I don't really care about FOX except for Football. I would rather see Fox Sports Detroit go HD, and be able to receive it here in Midland. But, I remember when he mentioned Canada, I asked him about WJRT and the fact that their towers are virtually next to one another. He said he did not know why WJRT and WEYI both were given permits to transmit at higher power, just that they were.

Even though I wish WNEM would do HD, I do have a CBS source through WLNS on my antenna (sometimes spotty), or WCBS by satellite (always great). It's too bad that there is not enough of us to affect their advertisers to force them to exert pressure on WNEM to show HD.

"You can only get our signal in Chesaning or St. Charles"

This makes it sound like they are actually broadcasting a signal (which I highly doubt).

I think the reason for their delay is that the frequency they want to broadcast on is fairly close to some canadian channel. I guess all the other channels in the area didn't have the same problem. There was a WB station in Detroit that was in the same situation as WSMH, but they've been up for at least a year now. I think the reason is they actually wanted to go on the air. WSMH could care less, so they're not going to persue it anymore then they have to.

Steve

I'm sorry, I did not mean to infer that he said WSMH actually was currently broadcasting a digital signal. He said if they were to start broadcasting, you could only receive it in Chesaning.......He did put in a plug for the new LG fifth generation receiver coming out, saying that if I did want to get their signal in the future, that would be the receiver to use. He had seen it demo'd and it put out and held a fantastic picture.

Ahh, that makes more since.

These new receiver's sound like they would be great for long distance reception. I have a Televes DAT75 antenna that I never use anymore since I can't get reliable reception with my MyHD tunner. From what i've heard, it looks like the tunner is the most important factor, as long as you have a decent antenna.

I am having the same problem. I use a CM4228 antenna with a CM preamp. I get good signal strength 75 to 85 on most of the locals, but I get a lot of pixilization and dropouts. I know some of it might be due to trees. I am using a E*6000 receiver which I think is older technology. It is interesting because it pulls in some of the weaker signals very well (50 to 60%), but has problems with some of the stronger signals. WLNS in Lansing is one of the more consistant pictures I receive once I am able to pull it in. WJRT which is a lot closer and comes in with a higher signal strength is very inconsistent. I guess I need to reserve judgment on the receiver until the leaves are off all the trees here in Midland.