Yes, the football and NASCAR look and sound great. Unfortunately I'd rather watch paint dry...

I don't understand why HD channels like 110 KCTSK and 112 KCTSL for example, shows what is obviously SD content stretched to 16:9 (which is fine by me) whereas 109 KCTSD jumps between 4:3 and then 16:9 content with black bars on top and bottom and grey bars on the side, and KONG and KOMO show 4:3 content which I am unable to stretch.

I've tried all the configurations of the 4:3 override but that is obviously for analog channels, right?

I'm also seeing some graphics issues. For example, the golf on 104 KOMOD and a movie on 114 KTWBD have a flickering white line in the top couple of pixels. The ABC news on 115 KOMON flickers and stutters a lot when I first tune it in, although it sometimes settles down a minute or two. Anyone else seeing this?

I can't see Joe Sixpack loving this. Unless you are willing to sign up for all the premium channels, HD on Comcast isn't very appealing.

I'm running firmware 7.15

EDIT: The KCTS problem with grey side bars and black top and bottom bars is obviously a problem on their end. They are now showing a documentary and they have the 'KCTS Seattle DT' logo across the pictures and the two bars. When they go back to the sponsorship breaks, the bars vanish. Obviously the material they are showing is 'letterboxed 4:3'. ugh..

I still can't believe there is no easy way to scale 4:3 HD channels to 16:9.

I've searched the thread for answer - can't find so here goes. For the last month my cable box has lost power during the night. A tech came out with two new boxes but neither one would come up satisfactorily so I kept the original. If I unplug and replug power all is okay. Any good thoughts???

Maybe I should just live with it until the new DVR boxes come out - before Xmas or hell freezing over or whatever.

analog8,
4:3 pictures should show on a 16:9 screen with black (or grey) bars on left & right. Unless...the station is putting the 4:3 inside a 16:9 frame, like KCST does on their SD digital channel (109 on Comcast). But, KCST is weird, because they take their 4:3 local pictures and stretch to fill 16:9, but send 4:3 PBS video in a 4:3 frame inside the 16:9 frame. If they were to send 4:3 without the 16:9 frame, you'd be able to stretch.

TV stations, I think, just don't want to bother switching between 4:3 and 16:9, so they leave data stream in 16:9 and fit 4:3 inside it with bars left and right.

I emailed KCTS and they got back to me - apparently PBS send them some programs in letterbox format which is 3:4, hence the black and grey postage stamp effect.

But when KCTS do run a full HD program - I have to say - PBS in HD is pretty stunning! I think I'll start watching more PBS since there isn't much else in HD on the basic Comcast HD package worth watching right now IMHO.

I agree that PBS HD on KCTS looks just great. I've talked to their chief engineer several times. He says PBS erroneously transmits programs in the wrong format and mis-informs affiliates of program formats ahead of time. This has been an issue I've seen for years. And, frankly, I'm amazed. KCTS and PBS were doing digital before most other stations and nets were.

I've seen KCTS run a whole hour HD program with no audio. Or, a whole hour stretched or squeezed. Like they just don't pay attention to their DT. I dropped by KCTS membership because of these longstanding technical issues. And, I've been a public television supporter all my life, including working for PBS stations in San Diego and Honolulu.

In any of the 176 pages in this thread, is there a list of the channels that do provide some HD content via Comcast in Seattle, at this time...?

There have been several, but I suppose it is time for an updated listing.

100 Comcast HDTV - Mariners games
104 KOMOD - KOMO ABC HD
105 KINGD - KING NBC HD
108 KCTSH - KCTS PBS HD
110 KTWBD - KTWB WB HD
113 KCPQD - KCPQ FOX HD
173 ESPND - ESPN HD
181 NFLHD - NFL Network's Game of the Week in HD, HD Special Events
532 STARZ HD
549 HBOHD
563 MXHDW
574 SHOHD
663 DHDTV - Discovery HD Theater
664 INHD
665 INHD2
HDTV On Demand

Anyone experiencing really low volumes with their HD channels yesterday? I was watching American Chopper on Discovery HD and when they went to their breaks, the volume BLASTED out and scared the **** outta me!

Seems to be a real problem on Discovery HD. All HD channels volumes are lower that the SD channels.
Does anyone know a way to even this out and get the same volume acoss the board?

Originally posted by wareagle
That seems to have cured it for me (it even seems logical). Since making that change I've had a few periodic barely noticeable audio blips similar to what you described, but the warble is gone.

Definitely owe you one. Now it's time to let you loose on the KIRO-HD problem!

Friend of mine complained to Comcast about the warble. Comcast acknowledged the problem and instructed him to change the compression setting to heavy.

MENU>SEUTP>AUDIO

- Seceond Option (audio output)
- Set to Advanced
- Select Compression
- Set Compression to Heavy

Originally posted by markhs
Friend of mine complained to Comcast about the warble. Comcast acknowledged the problem and instructed him to change the compression setting to heavy.

MENU>SEUTP>AUDIO

- Seceond Option (audio output)
- Set to Advanced
- Select Compression
- Set Compression to Heavy

That's the setting I ended up using. I still detect the periodic audio blip, which indicates they haven't done anything to actually fix the problem.

The fact that they know about the problem and have provided someone with a bandaid fix is symptomatic of a bigger problem with Comcast -- the lack of a means for customers to obtain important information without relying on just plain luck in contacting the right Comcast employee. They need to post up-to-date support info somewhere.

I emailed KIRO a couple of times about them not broadcasting HD over Comcast and finally got a typical corporate response:

"Thank you for your message. Cox and Comcast are currently negotiating the carriage of KIRO-HD via cable. No air date has been discussed."

Wow, that really helps.

Originally posted by howe97
I emailed KIRO a couple of times about them not broadcasting HD over Comcast and finally got a typical corporate response:

"Thank you for your message. Cox and Comcast are currently negotiating the carriage of KIRO-HD via cable. No air date has been discussed."

Wow, that really helps. What do you want them to say? Like I said previously, this issue is out of KIRO's hands. It's their corporate owner (Cox Cable) that is at fault here.

I'd like KIRO to be just slightly concerned about their viewers. I've written in to them several times before about their choice of programming. At least once a year, there will be a major college football game that starts early on the west coast, and they won't show it so they can show their weekly cartoons. I'm sorry, but I can't imagine why these cartoons bringing in more advertising revenue than football would (maybe I'm wrong though). Most times, they never even bother to send any kind of a courtesy response.

After a couple of emails on this topic, they finally responded several days later with a lame "we're working on it" kind of response. Not too informative. What would make me happy is for them to tell me they've forwarded my letter to the people who can do something about it.

Besides, I find it hard to believe that KIRO has NO say in any of this.

Originally posted by howe97
I'd like KIRO to be just slightly concerned about their viewers. I've written in to them several times before about their choice of programming. At least once a year, there will be a major college football game that starts early on the west coast, and they won't show it so they can show their weekly cartoons. I'm sorry, but I can't imagine why these cartoons bringing in more advertising revenue than football would (maybe I'm wrong though). Most times, they never even bother to send any kind of a courtesy response.

After a couple of emails on this topic, they finally responded several days later with a lame "we're working on it" kind of response. Not too informative. What would make me happy is for them to tell me they've forwarded my letter to the people who can do something about it.

Besides, I find it hard to believe that KIRO has NO say in any of this. Well I wasn't talking about cartoons. I was talking about Cox Cable vs. Comcast Cable.

This same issue is happening in every major city where Cox owns a local affiliate (Seattle, San Fran, Atlanta). Cox wants to charge Comcast some kind of ransom fee above & beyond what Comcast pays for other stations' HD fees. So honestly I think KIRO has exactly ZERO input when it comes to 1) the rates Cox wants to charge Comcast, and 2) the rates Comcast is willing to pay Cox. As far as I can tell, KIRO told you EVERYTHING they know about the situation...

COX feels confident that people will still watch their local affiliates even if they don't broadcast in HD. And in my case, they are right. I watch more CBS then any other station (three CSI's, NCIS, and Cold Case) but I send them to TiVo instead of watching them live like I do with ABC, NBC, and WB HD shows.

So KIRO does not get the impact of advertising that the HD channels do since I use TiVo to whip past them, but I have not stopped watching KIRO in protest of no HD and don't plan to even if we don't get HD until the FCC mandates that we do.

As for COX, they know that they have a lot of hit shows on KIRO and that there is a lot of demand for HD, so they hope that as Comcast expands HD service throughout the Seattle area, that eventually KIRO will blink and pay the ransom just to keep their ad revenue up.

Originally posted by jimre
Well I wasn't talking about cartoons. I was talking about Cox Cable vs. Comcast Cable.

This same issue is happening in every major city where Cox owns a local affiliate (Seattle, San Fran, Atlanta). Cox wants to charge Comcast some kind of ransom fee above & beyond what Comcast pays for other stations' HD fees. So honestly I think KIRO has exactly ZERO input when it comes to 1) the rates Cox wants to charge Comcast, and 2) the rates Comcast is willing to pay Cox. As far as I can tell, KIRO told you EVERYTHING they know about the situation...

Look, I'm just stating my opinion. If you don't like it, that's fine. My point is that I have repeatedly found KIRO to have very poor customer service. I don't find that email informative in the slightest, nor do I feel like they give a rip. I was hoping for some answer that would provide more insight. If they don't know anything more, they could say so. What they put in their email to me was nothing more than a condensed version of what I sent to them.

The average person doesn't know that Cox owns KIRO and that they're the reason that they can't get CBS in HD over Comcast. The average person just thinks that KIRO is holding out for way too much money. IMHO, it would be wise for KIRO to give the appearance that they understand the viewer's frustration, etc., etc. Or, in the case of the college football games I mentioned, they could at least reply and tell me what their decision making process is. They always just ignore me. And I'm not the only one frustrated by KIRO and also frustrated by the fact that they almost never seem to respond to letters.

Well not here. I haven't watched CBS for months. As far as I'm concerned it's simply a channel I don't get. I even have the ability to get the HD channel over the air, and I still won’t watch it.

Originally posted by Nausicaa
COX feels confident that people will still watch their local affiliates even if they don't broadcast in HD. And in my case, they are right.

Originally posted by jimre
What do you want them to say? Like I said previously, this issue is out of KIRO's hands. It's their corporate owner (Cox Cable) that is at fault here.

One point here that I think deserves clarification. Cox Cable does not own KIRO-TV and is not in negotiations with Comcast for the retransmission consent.

KIRO-TV, as well as Cox Cable are owned by Cox Enterprises.

Cox Enterprises, Inc.
6205 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd.
Atlanta, GA 30328 (Map)
Phone: 678-645-0000
Fax: 678-645-1079

http://www.coxenterprises.com

Covered by Larry Bills


The Cox family has been working at this enterprise for more than 100 years. One of the largest media conglomerates in the US, family-owned Cox Enterprises publishes 17 daily newspapers (including The Atlanta Journal-Constitution) and about 25 weeklies and shoppers and owns 15 TV stations through Cox Television. It also owns about 62% of Cox Radio (more than 80 radio stations) and controls 63% of Cox Communications, one of the US's largest cable systems, with more than 6.3 million subscribers in about 20 states. Cox's Manheim runs 115 automobile auctions worldwide and owns a majority-stake in AutoTrader.com.

I think this is a relevant distinction because when it's framed as Cox Cable vs. Comcast Cable it makes it sound like Comcast and Cox are in some kind of cable industry war at the expense of their mutual customers in Seattle (consumers of KIRO-TV and Comcast). That is not the case. Cox Cable has nothing to do with this problem and is not in a pissing match (as I've often heard it referred to) with Comcast.

Cox television is a completely different division from Cox Cable and they own 15 different stations around the country. Cox only wants to grant retransmission consent to cable operators who will pay significant fees back to them (based on how many homes their signal is delivered to).

This puts Cox in the wonderful position of getting richer at the expense of their consumers while making cable providers the "bad guys" because their the ones collecting the fees... does that make sense?

Comcast Communications Officer Steve Kip has said that they offered Cox Television the same deal that all the other stations accepted (I don't know how UPN fits in with that statement) and to me that lays 100% of the blame at Cox's doorstep. I don't think their greed should be described as a pissing match with Comcast because it is a rather one sided pissing match. Anyway that's my take on it.

The light at the end of the tunnel is that the balance of power will shift to Comcast when it comes time to renegotiate for KIRO-SD (anyone know when this happens?). It will be important for Cox to keep KIRO on Comcast's system here and Comcast will finally have some leverage. It is not unheard of for cable companies to pull a channel from their line-up if negotiations are going nowhere and some deadline expires. That almost always gets something done fast because people go nuts and Comcast can plaster Cox's phone number right there on channel 7 where KIRO's supposed to be for people to call and complain.

Just be sure to keep letting Comcast know how important this issue is to us. Call in and insist that CSR's fill out what's called a "Channel Request Form". Tell them it's on "The Source" (which is their internal CSR web site) if they act like they don't know what you're talking about. These forms (when CSR's submit them) go directly to their Washington Headquarters and I think it's the most meaningful way to communicate your frustration. I may be wrong but I think you can even request someone from the marketing department to call you back when they fill it out.

Well it should be illegal. We have zero recourse against Cox since they provide us with no services in Seattle. Well except not watch CBS, which I’m currently doing, but I’m sure no one cares.

I also am not watching CBS. Well, I only watch it if the Seahawks play on CBS...otherwise I have nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by jeff28
...The light at the end of the tunnel is that the balance of power will shift to Comcast when it comes time to renegotiate for KIRO-SD (anyone know when this happens?). It will be important for Cox to keep KIRO on Comcast's system here and Comcast will finally have some leverage. It is not unheard of for cable companies to pull a channel from their line-up if negotiations are going nowhere and some deadline expires. ... AFAIK, KIRO-SD and CBS are "must-carry" for Comcast, so this isn't exactly "leverage". I don't think Comcast could legally pull KIRO if they wanted to.

Originally posted by jimre
AFAIK, KIRO-SD and CBS are "must-carry" for Comcast, so this isn't exactly "leverage". I don't think Comcast could legally pull KIRO if they wanted to.

Believe me, you're wrong. KIRO went dark on MDM two years ago over different types of retrans negotiation issues.

Originally posted by jeff28
Believe me, you're wrong. KIRO went dark on MDM two years ago over different types of retrans negotiation issues. But in that case, it was because KIRO chose to give up FCC "must carry" status in order to negotiate with Millenium. Are you saying KIRO will give up "must carry" status as part of their negotiations with Comcast, too?

Originally posted by jimre
But in that case, it was because KIRO chose to give up FCC "must carry" status in order to negotiate with Millenium. Are you saying KIRO will give up "must carry" status as part of their negotiations with Comcast, too?

I think that a station must choose either must carry, where they aren't entitled to any payment but cable has to carry them, or retransmission consent, where cable doesn't have to carry the station, but if they do, it is at a negotiated fee.

Most commercial broadcast stations use retransmission consent since cable subscribers demand that programming and the station wants to be paid. Must carry usage is limited to low demand broadcast stations that likely wouldn't be on cable otherwise.

In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it too!

In October 1994, the FCC gave stations a choice of being carried under the must-carry rules or under a new regulation requiring cable companies to obtain retransmission consent before carrying a broadcast signal. The retransmission consent ruling gave desirable local stations increased power to negotiate the terms of carriage the cable company would provide, including channel preference. Some TV stations chose retransmission consent, but couldn't reach agreement with cable operators, and were dropped from some cable systems. Temporarily. Eventually, all the stations that demanded retransmission consent payments, and all the cable systems that refused to pay, were able to come to some agreement.
KIRO-TV is carried on the Comcast system through a retransmission consent agreement. Therefore there is the possibility of KIRO being pulled off the system after the consent expires if both entities have not agreed on renewal terms. I do not know what would happen if Cox wanted to invoke must-carry at that point but I think that must-carry deals include digital signals anyway so we (HDTV people) would still get what we want. I'm not completely sure about that part though; so maybe I'll (or someone else will) research that issue. I'm sure we can figure it out.

EDIT:
Oh yeah... here's an article about a situation where Time Warner pulled ABC off it's systems in 11 markets over retransmission consent negotiations... if you still don't think it can be done. http://money.cnn.com/2000/05/01/companies/warner_abc/

Originally posted by jeff28
KIRO-TV, as well as Cox Cable are owned by Cox Enterprises. I believe that Cox Enterprises is also playing both sides of this issue - there is a station in Omaha which is asking Cox Cable for the same thing Cox Enterprises (KIRO) is asking from Comcast (separate and higher fees for their HDTV feed).

I don't agree with the position of the station, but Cox Cable won't pay (http://www2.unplannedthought.com:8080/archives/2004/01/08/letter_from_kptm_general_manager.php) what they expect Comcast to pay....

Here is the AVS thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4256695&highlight=KMTV#post4256695) .

I know that I asked this once months ago, but has there been any word about CBC HD on Comcast? It's so annoying to see the "CBC Sports HD" logo flash up on the screen yet be stuck in analogue 4:3. :mad:

About the time hell freezes over or when the FCC mandates digital-only.

Whichever comes first.

Hi,
I am looking to get the minimal COmcast cable package to get their South Asian programming ( Zee TV + Tv Asia)...which needs digital. I read in the Puget Sound DTV that the minimal charge is :

approx. $12.30( limited basic) + $11 ( limited digital ) + $5 for box ( I might as well get HDTV box)...

Is this about right?

-Rajesh

$11.39 - $13.75 (depending on area) for Limited Cable
$5.10 for HD Digital Lite (Includes PPV Access, Comcast On Demand, Digital Music, Programming Guide, 1 Standard Digital Set-Top Receiver)
$24.99 for Zee TV & TV Asia Combination Ch. 246 & 247
$6.45 Advanced Set-Top Receiver for HDTV

rajeshh, According to their rate card printed 3/2004, this should be accurate. It is my understanding the HD Digi Lite subscribers get all the locals as well as ESPN in high definintion. You do not get Discovery, INHD 1 & 2,. You would get these as well if you did Digital Classic instead of Digital Lite. The price for Classic is $11.99 per month.

Whew, I was just about to post that I was getting nothing on KCPQ, but it's up now.

Yup. KCPQ HD looks fine and, surprise of surprises, NBC is actually broadcasting the Kansas NASCAR race in HD! That past two or three on them (I missed Talladega last week) were in SD. :rolleyes:

I swear that the networks, affiliates and the cable companies have monkeys running loose in their office randomly throwing switches. KCPQ has switched back and forth between HD at least twice during the game. Oh there it went again. They're having fun during halftime!

They also had no signal a couple of times and they forgot to run a commercial or something right before the game started. They had a FOX satellite message up for about 30 seconds before the game coverage started.

I saw the FOX satellite message thing this morning during Fox News Sunday... have any of you ever seen that show? It's the only network news show I know of that's produced in 16:9 (is it in actual HD now or still enhanced widescreen? - it looks really good)... anyway they must be having problems over there today.

Hey All;

I'm new to HDTV; I'm getting a new JVD 61" "HD-ILA" LCOS TV & DirecTivo delivered (I'm a Tivo addict)... TV should be here in a couple weeks. I want to be able to pick up my HD locals, and I'm aware of the fact that I have *no chance* of getting them OTA here in Centralia.

Along with my TV (ordering the Tivo Tuesday), I also ordered this new LG DVD player & OTA/digital cable tuner (since the Tivo won't get QAM)... well, considering I'm new at this, I'm now seeing conflicting reports that some cable cos. encrypt their locals, and I'm hoping that Comcast is not one of them. Can I use my new DVD player/tuner to get HD Locals? All I want are the locals, since everything else will be picked up with the Tivo.

I want to avoid the $6.75 /month fee for the box since at my place I have high speed Comcast internet through Earthlink (no 'no TV' fee that way), billed in my name, but my roommate has analog expanded basic cable. I want to avoid adding the fee to his cable bill, and they won't add just the cost of an HD box to my internet bill. Of course we can all get the TV signals.

Even if the HD channels are unencrypted, will I have any problems with getting comcast to remove the traps for just the HD locals, or is it already done? I have the internet, roommate gets all the analog channels (sans premiums).

BTW, does anyone think I might have a sliver of hope getting any HD locals here in Centralia? OTA, I can get 13 analog great, and 4 and 5 with some snow, but watchable.

Thanks!
--Nat

Sorry, don't know about Centralia - but Comcast here in Puget Sound gives us un-encrypted local HD stations (except for CBS, of course).

Originally posted by NGeorge
Even if the HD channels are unencrypted, will I have any problems with getting comcast to remove the traps for just the HD locals, or is it already done? I have the internet, roommate gets all the analog channels (sans premiums).

Comcast's website lists KOMO, KING, KONG, KCTS, KTWB, and KCPQ as being available in Hi-Def in Centralia on the same channels as they are in the rest of Puget Sound. I would assume that they're unencrypted QAM in Centralia if they are in parts north...

It didn't look as if KATU, KOIN, KGW, and KPTV are available in HD, though. They appear to be analog only, according to Comcast's site.

I too find I don't watch KIRO at all anymore because of the lack of a HD signal on Comcast in Seattle - not as an intentional boycott, but simply because as I've become spoiled by the quality of the HD imges I find I tune in to non HD channels less and less. As KIRO isn't available to me in HD, I've found that it, and whatever programming it carries, simply isn't "on my radar" any longer when I'm changing channels or looking for something to watch...

Obviously, to date, not enough actual or potential KIRO veiwers like me have "disappeared" from their viewership numbers to make a difference in their ratings... But, over time, as HD viewership becomes a bigger share of the marketplace and starts to count in the ratings, Cox may eventually realize that continuing this childish pissing match with competing cable systems by with holding their HD signals from them unless higher than industry-standard carriage fees are paid, actually is coutnerproductive to their own veiwership numbers...

More wishful thinking, but maybe the networks which the Cox-owned channels carry (CBS here in Seattle) will realize, when network affiliation time rolls around, that as they have been cut off from the HD cable market by Cox in markets they want and need, they're real victims of this pissing match too, and they'll look to switch affiliations away from Cox in the impacted markets unless Cox grows up a bit and learns to "play well with others"...

Well, one can hope...

rgordon

Hoping is good, as I have the same problem with Sinclair. But it will take several years before HD viewing will have any effect on numbers, considering that Nielsen doesn't even count HD now. I don't think they have a digital box, not sure though.

Lots of other stuff to watch in HD though. Keep rooting for HDNET sometime......maybe?

Rich N.

HDNet...I had it on DirecTV until I moved... Now, I'm on Comcast and can't afford both cable and DirecTV. And, without HDNet...and I do miss it. InHD is weak by comparison.

What is HDNet and what makes it better than InHD?

rgordon

HDNet is, or rather, are two all HD channels. One general programming including sports and off-network shows and the other all HD movies. Both started by Mark Cuban. HDNet and HDNet Movies are available on DirecTV & Dish Network and some cable systems, though not Comcast. In some ways, they'd compete with the 2 InHD channels. More at www.hd.net.

I know Comcast considers them competition. I don't know who owns pieces of what, but Comcast does own a piece of INHD1&2.

Actually I think that they are similar, but certainly there are differences. For sports, INHD has it all over HDNET (for me!) with Major College Football through CSTV, MLB and NBATV HD games. HDNET has MLS and the Mavs.

Comcast Sportsnet is, like INHD and HDNET, similar to ESPN, but they are both on (both have live HD, live SD sports, even poker for heavens' sake, as well as Sportscenter and other discussion shows).

I know that HDNET and Comcast are in "discussions". It must be about money and maybe the rights to certain shows that holds up adding HDNET. But the HD availability is going to expand greatly in the next few months (see ESPN2 on Jan 6) and we need to make sure Comcast knows that HD locals are not going to save them from satellite competition forever.

I just love non-commercial HD. Let's hope Mark and Comcast can get it done, as other cable owners have who have both of them.

Rich N.

You know, I can't figure out how to tell Comcast that I want HDNet. Their web site seems not to have any way to contact them, like an email address, etc. I suppose I could walk in their door and tell a clerk or phone them and tell a customer service person, but frankly, I'd rather do it in writing.

Anyone getting Channel 181? NFL HD. Have all the HD channels but that one. Says Im not a subscriber. I do have the Digital package.

Heck, I'd take anything at this point. It's been about a year.

Originally posted by raidbuck
Keep rooting for HDNET sometime......maybe?

Rich N.

Yeah, I get it.

Originally posted by alma321
Anyone getting Channel 181? NFL HD. Have all the HD channels but that one. Says Im not a subscriber. I do have the Digital package.

Originally posted by alma321
Anyone getting Channel 181? NFL HD. Have all the HD channels but that one. Says Im not a subscriber. I do have the Digital package.

What digital package do you have? I came into Comcast via the AT&T Broadband aquisition, and my old package was listed as "Digital Standard", which isn't listed on Comcast's site any longer. When I tried viewing 180 or 181, I got some message about not having access to those channels.

I called yesterday and had them switch me to "Digital Plus", which is the exact same thing at the same price. It just allowed me to pick up those 2 channels (perhaps more, I don't know).

I see the INHD channels as sort of 'hmmm, here's something on HD, let's broadcast it!'. The only problem I have with them is that the feed is often very glitchy. Dunno where the problem starts (satellite, Comcast dish, local feed?) but I get lots of jerks and 'missing data' type of pixellation on these two channels. Discovery HD is almost always fine. Guess I'll submit a service ticket on it just to make sure it isn't something in my local cable.

Balcerak, my experience was almost the opposite. I never have glitches with InHD 1 & 2, but I frequently had them on DiscoveryHD. I haven't really watched much DiscoveryHD in a few days, but whenever I flip by there the picture always looks good. I have no idea what might have changed.

I also never get any glitches on InHD.

Gonna have the tech come out Saturday. I checked other HD channels I rarely watch and there is some glitching on those too. Discovery HD, StarzHD look fine at the moment. HBOHD has minor glitches as do most other HD channels including ESPNHD and local channels. INHD1 and 2 vary from totally awful to minor glitching. Seems odd that some are fine and some are awful at the same time. Very annoying though!

Originally posted by artshotwell
You know, I can't figure out how to tell Comcast that I want HDNet. Their web site seems not to have any way to contact them, like an email address, etc. I suppose I could walk in their door and tell a clerk or phone them and tell a customer service person, but frankly, I'd rather do it in writing. ROFLMAO Thanks, I needed the laugh. I've been getting the runaround from Comcast about INHD and INHD2 being unwatchable since 9/25 or earlier (I was outta town). You think they care what you want? You think someone would actually read it? You think someone there can actually read? I feel like I'm talking to an automated voicemail system only the system has revolving fabrications of excuses for not knowing anything worth knowing when I call their CSR's. Press one for more services but they can't explain what they are. Press 2 for service issues but no one follows up when the service call doesn't fix it so you're back to square one. Press three for the next version of the same story. Press four for live voices that make no sense. Press five if you care because Comcast doesn't. Press 6 if you haven't given up yet. Press 7 and they're starting to get upset that you just won't hang up and go away. Press eight and you must be a glutton for punishment. Press nine to speak directly to someone in charge, ya right, computer are the only ones running this nuthouse, we just sit here and randomly push buttons that we have no idea what it is that they actually do but it makes us look busy and gives the computers something to do. Press ten and we'll know that you're as nutts as the rest of our customers are for paying us to play games with you and there is no 10 on a phone, 1 + 0 =1, not 10, we're a digital company and only understand ones and zeros and the more the better with a dollar sign in front, you don't speak binary, sorry can't help you, and oh ya, options 2-9 are a joke we thought up and they don't work, we thought they would make you dizzy enough to not call back again, but we listen in while you're holding to listen to you steaming out loud with no hope of getting through to anyone you'd want to reach if they did work anyway. Press 0 to speak the next available customer service representive although the homeless wino down the block will make more sense and scare you less. And you're looking for a way to contact them? Could it simply be coincidence that they're not making it easy? The only input from their customers that they want is for the check to clear. When it works, its nice. When it don't? Start praying. It takes a miracle to get anywhere worth getting to as far as them listening and responding with facts instead of fantasies. Valley girls is too kind for a description.

Thanks, I enjoyed that rant. I know, the technology is new and wrinkles will happen. It doesn't make it any less frustrating when a service company seems so clueless about their own product and so prone to CYA answers that lead nowhere but back to where you started from, nowhere. They must be laughing all the way to the bank.

I hafta tell ya, I was half kidding when I wrote that post about not being able to email Comcast. They're one of the worst when it comes to being able to actually contact. I did have not very fruitful contact...I needed tech support because I wanted the instructions to program their remote. Well, it turns out I found a very helpful technician who mailed me the instruction sheet, which included all the codes for adding other devices.

And I'll assume you bumped into the tech on the street somewhere and didn't get the instructions through customer service. I've met techs who have half a clue. But I've had to reinitiate a service issue complaint 4 times by myself for the same issue since the techs never followed through on reporting my service as still not fixed and requiring a follow up. And I had to go through the dreaded and rightfully feared customer service department. They're enough to make you crazy with how little they know but yet so sure they have your answer and that what they do tell you is correct even when its not. Scripted answers that don't answer the question is all I get. That's their story and they're sticking to it since that's all that's on their scripted answer sheet. Its a maze with no way in and no way out. Banging your head against a wall seems easier.

But I had fun with that post so the lynching party is off till tomorrow when I get to start all over again with them.

Oh, no...I got to him via customer service. But, I said I needed to talk to tech support...they put me through to a very knowledgable guy.

Originally posted by artshotwell
You know, I can't figure out how to tell Comcast that I want HDNet. Their web site seems not to have any way to contact them, like an email address, etc. I suppose I could walk in their door and tell a clerk or phone them and tell a customer service person, but frankly, I'd rather do it in writing. Yeah, pretty difficult to figure out :-)

www.comcast.com-->Support&Service-->Contact Us-->Email Us:

Sorry, couldn't resist - but really, it's pretty easy to find. Of all the things Comcast does wrong, this is not one of them. But don't expect anything here beyond a stock reponse, like "thank you for your suggestion of adding channel XYZ-HD. As you know, we cannot carry all channels but we're constantly evaluating customer feedback to offer the best, blah, blah...". Frankly I'm not sure if customer requests really play any role at all in Comcast deciding what channels to offer, but it can't hurt to ask.

Oops...I failed to find it...I'll look again...Thanks...

Well, my HD reception via Comcast has changed once again. The channels that were dropping bits (INHD1, INHD2, ESPNHD and others) seem to have improved quite a bit. Just a glitch here or there, still not what I'd expect to be paying for (and they aren't charging me for last month's digital so I can't complain) but at least the shows are 'watchable'. But today Discovery HD is locking up every minute or two for 10 seconds or so. I just get a still shot for 10 seconds and then it jumps ahead. Still having the tech come out if only to show them that something in their transmission stream is messed up. Who knows what oddness I'll see tomorrow, probably all channels will be perfect when the tech shows up and then all go out again.

LOST started to fall apart towards the last 15 minutes I noticed (I was watching Smallville and flipping to LOST [which is TiVo'd] during commercial breaks).

The only problems I've seen are: audio dropouts for 1-2 seconds on KING, and picture blacks out for a second or two during KOMO's news open, when their video goes to white. I don't watch InHD or Discovery HD very much, but haven't seen any problems when I have watched.

Originally posted by Nausicaa
LOST started to fall apart towards the last 15 minutes I noticed (I was watching Smallville and flipping to LOST [which is TiVo'd] during commercial breaks).

That wasn't Comcast... I was getting the same thing OTA (though, when I flipped over to 4-2, ABC News Now was _not_ doing the same thing.)

Missing any of LOST is more than I can take. (I haven't been so glued to a show since Twin Peaks...)

Talked to someone who said it was fine on WABC-DT last night, so I blame KOMO...

Originally posted by pastiche
Missing any of LOST is more than I can take. (I haven't been so glued to a show since Twin Peaks...)

oh please don't compare LOST to Twin Peaks (the greatest show of the last 20 years IMHO). I mean really, landing a plane with no tail section! Planes turn into *ROCKS* when the tail falls off. And that is just the first of a long series of ridiculous things. I only watch it to find out what dinosaur they are going to come up with - T. Rex?

Looks like NBC-HD (or KING) forgot they are doing a five-second audio delay on NASCAR races. :)

They just switched to widescreen, but the audio track is five seconds behind the video. Checked Channel 5 and the audio is fine.

Edit: 20 minutes later they have now gone back to 4:3 SD, but the audio is synched again.

I got all excited when I saw channel 100 pop up on HD with a 'Comcast HD - Coming Soon' message because I'd read about new channels in the basic HD lineup.

I just backtracked thru the thread and it seems like 100 is some sort of special sports channel. Ugh...just what I need, more sports in HD. I swear I've watched more baseball, football and NASCAR in the last two weeks than in my whole life previously. Unfortunately it hasn't gotten any more interesting.

Anyone got any news on the improvements to the Motorola 6200 GUI or the channel guide? Have Motorola's designers ever seen a TIVO? I swear that the 6200 is powered by a Commodore 64 judging from the pathetic GUI quality.

Did Comcast drop Ch 11 (KSTW)? I could have sworn they had it, but when I was testing my Fusion card for QAM, I never did find 11 (on the Fusion the channels are different than on the box). I thought I just missed it, but when I tried to tune in Ch 111 tonight on the Moto box, it wasn't there.

they've never put KSTW on channel 111 and I don't know why. nobody ever asks or talks about it.

Karyk - which HDTV card do you have and which Comcast HDTV channels does it receive? Is your card the DVICO FusionHDTV 3? By any chance? It would be nice to have one to record HD onto the computer and then I could get an OTA antenna and get CBS.

Originally posted by jeff28
they've never put KSTW on channel 111 and I don't know why. nobody ever asks or talks about it.

Last season, I believe "Enterprise" was the only show UPN broadcast in HD.

They have now added "Veronica Mars" this year, and maybe more.

Originally posted by jeff28
they've never put KSTW on channel 111 and I don't know why. nobody ever asks or talks about it.

Is it somewhere else? It was showing on their guide, but I couldn't tune to it.

Originally posted by djmattyb
Karyk - which HDTV card do you have and which Comcast HDTV channels does it receive? Is your card the DVICO FusionHDTV 3? By any chance? It would be nice to have one to record HD onto the computer and then I could get an OTA antenna and get CBS.

It's the new Fusion, that only has one antenna input. I'm using it OTA, but I did test it for Comcast. I was able to view all the major networks except UPN and CBS, and was able to view ESPN HD. I didn't try scheduled recording. Without CBS, it will remain an OTA device.

Originally posted by Nausicaa
Last season, I believe "Enterprise" was the only show UPN broadcast in HD.

They have now added "The Mountain" and "Veronica Mars" this year, and maybe more.

They've been running a couple of movies in HD each weekend, which has been pretty cool. (I think they're syndicated by Paramount, to mostly UPN O&Os?)

Originally posted by Nausicaa
Last season, I believe "Enterprise" was the only show UPN broadcast in HD.

They have now added "The Mountain" and "Veronica Mars" this year, and maybe more.
Isn't The Mountain on KTWB, not KSTW?

Maybe it is. I don't watch it. :)

But yeah, I think it is after Smallville on the WB.

So that makes like two shows in HD on UPN. Still more then KONG, yet we get that in HD for some reason. :D

Well. KSTW & KIRO share something in common. Both CBS and UPN are owned by Viacom. KSTW is also owned by Viacom, while KIRO is owned by Cox Communications.

Originally posted by artshotwell
Well. KSTW & KIRO share something in common. Both CBS and UPN are owned by Viacom. KSTW is also owned by Viacom, while KIRO is owned by Cox Communications.

What's not in common -- and just makes no sense -- is that Viacom and Comcast reached a system-wide retransmission consent deal on 12/19/2003, so Comcast should be able to add KSTW-DT at will.

Perhaps it's simple economics: KTWB was undoubtedly added because of bundled retransmission consent with KCPQ; KONG, because of KING. KSTW's got so precious little, is it actually worth another 6 MHz of bandwidth?

With KIRO, thanks to corporate parent Cox, there has been no retransmission consent, and it's unlikely there will be until the analogue retransmission consent comes up for re-negotiation. (It could be worse... the last market I lived in had two Cox stations...)

Originally posted by pastiche
Perhaps it's simple economics: KTWB was undoubtedly added because of bundled retransmission consent with KCPQ; KONG, because of KING. KSTW's got so precious little, is it actually worth another 6 MHz of bandwidth?

Could be. All I watch is "Enterprise" and "Veronica Mars", and "E" probably won't last past this season (though I sure hope "VM" does). I TiVo both (I TiVo anything not in HD, since I will only watch commercials for HD) so if Comcast did add them in HD, I'd watch those shows live.

Originally posted by pastiche
What's not in common -- and just makes no sense -- is that Viacom and Comcast reached a system-wide retransmission consent deal on 12/19/2003, so Comcast should be able to add KSTW-DT at will. From what I remember, the agreement with Comcast only covered the subset of Viacom stations that are owned & operated by CBS.

Originally posted by jimre
From what I remember, the agreement with Comcast only covered the subset of Viacom stations that are owned & operated by CBS.

That'd explain the absence of KSTW then. :( Seems odd that they'd negotiate carriage of CBS but not UPN and KCAL, since PSG is managed as one unit within Viacom.

CBS is a lot more important then UPN when it comes to eyeballs - both SD and HD. :)

The Comcast-Viacom agreement DOES allow for retransmission consent of digital signals of Viacom owned UPN stations. So Comcast could add it at any time, but seems to be waiting for more HD content to show up. (Also, some systems are bandwidth limited but that does not apply to the Seattle market.)

Well I got the tech to visit Saturday and he upped the signal to my apartment (I'm 200' from the box with some old coax he wasn't too happy about). HD is behaving a lot better so far. Some glitches but could be antenna at local site problems and at least usually all channels are watchable. Discovery HD has been stopping for 10 seconds (screen freezes) at a time during the daytime for some reason but that was happening before and after the tech came out. I'll be happy when HD is less of an 'experiment' and they pay it a bit more attention. I get the feeling they look and say "oh, ESPNHD is acting up, oh well the 'normal' channel is fine, maybe it will go away".

Originally posted by quarque
oh please don't compare LOST to Twin Peaks (the greatest show of the last 20 years IMHO). I mean really, landing a plane with no tail section! Planes turn into *ROCKS* when the tail falls off. And that is just the first of a long series of ridiculous things. I only watch it to find out what dinosaur they are going to come up with - T. Rex?

Wait, you're flaming "Lost" for not being realistic yet rave about Twin Peaks? And it's not a dinosaur. And the "how" of their survival is part of the mystery. Sheesh. But hey. add some reverse speaking lesbian midgets and it'd be AWESOME!

I'm sorry, but I have to agree that LOST, although good, is no Twin Peaks. JJ Abrams is NO David Lynch, for sure.

Seattle Comcast QAM Native Digital Channel Numbers

I have a friend who is likely to buy a QAM-capable HDTV tuner/STB. He is curious about what the DTV channel numbers would be on the Comcast basic cable.

I thought I had seen a listing of native channel numbers for Seattle Comcast that were different than the numbers provided with a Comcast digital cable box (e.g., KOMO-DT is 104 on Comcast box, but actually ??? natively with a non-Comcast QAM tuner).

I tried to search for the answer here but came up dry.

Please share the channel numbers (if they exist like I think they do) and/or point me to the post where they are already listed.

Or, set me straight as needed.

TIA

From my short test, I believe it's as follows:

KOMO 111-5
KING 112-1
KCPQ 110-1
ESPN 122-1

But again, this was from a short test I did. There were a number of other channels available.

Thanks Karyk.

Are the dashes required for selecting those channels from a QAM tuner (non-Comcast)?

Originally posted by Budget_HT
Thanks Karyk.

Are the dashes required for selecting those channels from a QAM tuner (non-Comcast)?

I'm not sure what you're asking by saying "non-Comcast." If you mean a Fusion card, yes you would need to specify the subchannel. You would just make those your favorites so that it could toggle amoung them.

Do note I have one concern about recording off the Fusion from Comcast. OTA the Fusion recordings would hang at startup if the virtual channel number and channel name were not part of the channel listing information (obtained during the channel setup scan). When I scanned the Comcast channels that information was not provided, so I have concerns about whether the scheduled recording would work off QAM. Somewhat related to this is concern over how TitanTV would schedule a recording without this information. A solution might be to manually add the information to the registry. It's something I'll have to deal with when Comcast adds KIRO. Since the software might be different then, I'm not going to even try to deal with it now.

I should also add that when I said a number of other channels were available, not all of them worked. Some that showed up in the scan were either encrypted or perhaps used a different QAM encoding. Dvico is apparently dealing with the latter issue, but you'll never be able to view an encrypted channel. I never did determine what the other usable channels were. I was just trying to find the major networks.

Is anyone else having 105 go in and out of HD during West Wing? Is this happening over the air too? Why can't Comcast get it right? Just don't f*ck with it while I am watching the West Wing season premiere!

Uh....

Happening on OTA too.....

Dont blame comcast...

Rich

I lost 'Lost' in HD last night....in fact, virtually all of the local HD channels seem to have disappeared for me magically. So, now I await the wonderful truck roll experience this weekend -- hope this time the tech doesn't try to plug coax into my projector.

I've sort of given up on watching LOST in HD due to various reasons (audio dropouts, picture loss) and am beginning to think trying isn't worth the lamp time on my projector. :(

It seems like the beginning of every episode of Lost is filled with audio drops, etc. However, if you can survive the first 5 minutes of technical issues, the rest of the show seems to go smoothly.

My cable box just shut off while I was watching Unsolved Mysteries (1pm). It's now downloading something (dL) on the screen. I'll check the firmware # when it's done.

Update - it's still 7.15 \/\/HATEVER!

Originally posted by djmattyb
My cable box just shut off while I was watching Unsolved Mysteries (1pm). It's now downloading something (dL) on the screen. I'll check the firmware # when it's done.

Update - it's still 7.15 \/\/HATEVER!

Same here. I was trying to see what OnDemand had to offer at 1PM, kept getting communications error, then it shut off and showed dl for about an hour and came back with the same firmware loaded.

I can't believe they'd pick a time during the middle of the day to download.

I hope they don't screw up the DVI again.

Originally posted by djmattyb
Is anyone else having 105 go in and out of HD during West Wing? Is this happening over the air too? Why can't Comcast get it right? Just don't f*ck with it while I am watching the West Wing season premiere!

I only noticed this once when I finally watched the OTA recording I made. And it lasted for a very short period.

Has anyone heard about rollout of the Moto 6412 boxes? Last rumor was 'late October' as I recall; is this late enough? Does anyone have 'em yet?

Yes, we will get the 6412 boxes just as soon as we get KIRO-HD.

drbenson --

I talked to Comcast the other day about something else and asked about the boxes. The guy said the latest he had heard was November. Although, I forgot to ask which year he was talking about so maybe he's referring to November of '08.

I've heard they are very crude devices, so I've given up waiting for them. When they get KIRO I'll switch my Fusion card over to Comcast and probably have a much better product.

This thread says November. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=455705&highlight=6412

Originally posted by drbenson
Has anyone heard about rollout of the Moto 6412 boxes? Last rumor was 'late October' as I recall; is this late enough? Does anyone have 'em yet?

Thanks for the new rumors. I, too, am waiting impatiently for KIRO. Someday I'll have to search this thread for the first 'promised' date for Comcast getting KIRO- might be entertaining while we wait...and wait.

Is the Fusion card HD Cable capable? Last time I checked the market there was no card available that would work with cable to record HD- the 5C issue and all. I currently have crude HD record capability on the commercial channels via Firewire and CapDVHS, but can't record from Discovery HD or the InHD channels. Will the Fusion do it?

i just called comcast, talked with a CSR who got out of DVR training yesterday

she said the "official" launch date for our area was November 15th

she also said they've only got 30,000 of these boxes, so if you want one, you better call bright and early ;)

i asked about the whole a/b thing, but because i don't understand what it exactly means or if it even effects me i wasn't able to ask the question clearly enough for her to understand what i was talking about

she just said if you have hd service now, you're good to go, so we'll see

kinda bummed about the $9.95 a month fee, but i'll give a go for a while

anybody know how big the disk is? is there a way to transfer content from the STB to another device, i.e.; HTPC?

Originally posted by billymac
she just said if you have hd service now, you're good to go, so we'll see


Exactly what does that refer to?

i read in other post something about users who were in "a/b land" were not able to utilize a dual tuner and/or hd dvr device

i asked her about it, she didn't know exactly what i was talking about, neither do i really and then she said as far as she knew as long as i already had a hd box and it was working that i could upgrade

The disk is 120GB (the 12 in 6412)

Transfering content to HTPC "MAY" be problematic. In the clear signals (5C0) should be ok but 5C1 content by definition should not be able to be transferred unless you HTPC is 5C1 compliant.

You should still be able to use a DVHS HD deck for 5C1 content. I seem to rememer reading elsewhere that it's possible to play back a 6412 recorded HD show and record it to tape.

A/B doesn't apply to anyone in Washington state, there were some older cable systems that actually ran 2 lines to your house, each carried half of your content so the box had to "a/b" between them for all your channels so no worries!.

Jeremy.

p.s. sorry I haven't been around in a while had a lot of stuff going on.

Originally posted by billymac
i read in other post something about users who were in "a/b land" were not able to utilize a dual tuner and/or hd dvr device

I don't think Comcast has any A/B systems in WA, though I'm sure there're still some in other regions.

There were some locations where TCI had built dual headends. Pittsburgh, for example, was a large dual 300 MHz system, with channels 2-36 delivered twice, over two separate cables. Cable-ready people used an A/B switch, while people with converters had their channels re-mapped to 2-36 and 52-86.

I can't imagine it's an issue here. Now that I've written this, I'm sure that the issue's something entirely different! :D

Originally posted by billymac
she also said they've only got 30,000 of these boxes, so if you want one, you better call bright and early ;)


Can we call and pre-order one? Or do we have to wait until Nov. 15th (or whatever date it actually turns into)?

Originally posted by drbenson
Is the Fusion card HD Cable capable? Last time I checked the market there was no card available that would work with cable to record HD- the 5C issue and all. I currently have crude HD record capability on the commercial channels via Firewire and CapDVHS, but can't record from Discovery HD or the InHD channels. Will the Fusion do it?

The Fusion card will view the locals and ESPN and a few others, but not all the HD channels. I didn't try recording, but presumably it would at least manually record. Scheduled recordings might be another matter (I'm not sure how TitanTV and Comcast interact).

Ah. As I thought. I can do that well with Firewire, with no extra hardware investment. Thanks for the confirmation.

Originally posted by Karyk
The Fusion card will view the locals and ESPN and a few others, but not all the HD channels. I'm surprised you could view ESPN-HD using a QAM tuner card. My 6200 box reports ESPN-HD (173) as being encrypted:

- tune to 173
- Diagnostics menu
- 06 Current channel status
status: ENC

Local HD channels (104, 105) report their status as un-encrypted ("CLR").

I was surprised ESPN was there too. I only checked it for less than an hour. Maybe it was a glitch.

Originally posted by howe97
Can we call and pre-order one? Or do we have to wait until Nov. 15th (or whatever date it actually turns into)?

Good question, but it certainly would be out of character for them to allow pre-orders (or to keep track of the orders). With 30,000 available, they should give priority to HD customers -- actually they should be calling US. Probably nothing to worry about, since those of us here are probably in a very small minority of Comcast subscribers who even care (or know) about the 6412.

Originally posted by wareagle
Good question, but it certainly would be out of character for them to allow pre-orders (or to keep track of the orders). With 30,000 available, they should give priority to HD customers -- actually they should be calling US. Probably nothing to worry about, since those of us here are probably in a very small minority of Comcast subscribers who even care (or know) about the 6412.

I have to disagree with you, as this is the first integrated PVR solution available for cable, whether you record analog or digital, HD or not. And the equipement is available for rent. Because of that, I think there may be more people than you think that will be interested in that technology (if Comcast advertise it well).

-eric

Originally posted by ericjut
I have to disagree with you, as this is the first integrated PVR solution available for cable, whether you record analog or digital, HD or not. And the equipement is available for rent. Because of that, I think there may be more people than you think that will be interested in that technology (if Comcast advertise it well).

-eric

The problem is it doesn't offer much functionality from what I've read in the past. So people familiar with PVRs will not be too attracted to it.

Originally posted by ericjut
I have to disagree with you, as this is the first integrated PVR solution available for cable, whether you record analog or digital, HD or not. And the equipement is available for rent. Because of that, I think there may be more people than you think that will be interested in that technology (if Comcast advertise it well).

-eric

You may be right, but my experience has been that the average Comcast customer is no more knowledgeable than the average Comcast CSR, in which case we're home free.

lmao. True.

Originally posted by wareagle
You may be right, but my experience has been that the average Comcast customer is no more knowledgeable than the average Comcast CSR, in which case we're home free.

Originally posted by Karyk
The problem is it doesn't offer much functionality from what I've read in the past. So people familiar with PVRs will not be too attracted to it.

In the past Comcast PVRs have run software from TV Guide. We all know how that goes.

From what I gather these newer units will run Microsoft TV Foundation. A totally different beast.

I had a tech out Saturday so I grilled him on our current favorites:

DVRs - Confirmed the mid Nov 2004 date, box specs, $10 addl monthly fee, dual tuner. No word on the software or how to order one early.

KIRO - Claims the pissing match is all about Pittsburgh, PA. In particular a NWCN like news channel owned by Cox that Comcast doesn't want to carry as they have their own similar channel for Pitt.

NFLTV - Claims Comcast hosting the channel is a show of good faith in their negotiations with the NFL to air 'Sunday Ticket' games when the current Dish Network contract expires at the end of this season.

The tech seemed knowledgeable but ya never know, just thought I would pass it along.

Tried to give "Desperate Housewives" a chance. Did other people have trouble with the sound? Not only was the audio out of synch (regular occurrence on KOMO) but there were a lot of dropouts. I finally switched to regular KOMO but I can't watch SD anymore. The beginning of "Boston Legal," also had significant audio problems.

1) Did others experience the audio problems?

2) Anything we can do from our end? I tried turning off the cable box and resetting but there was no improvement.

Thanks,

I had the same problems with sound and dropouts. I don't know of any solution we can try, since I've already "fixed" the audio problems on 105 with the only adjustment I'm aware of.

I too had the problem. It was also on OTA, hence not a Comcast problem. Hated to do so, but I swithed to analog.

Originally posted by artseattle
Tried to give "Desperate Housewives" a chance. Did other people have trouble with the sound? Not only was the audio out of synch (regular occurrence on KOMO) but there were a lot of dropouts. I finally switched to regular KOMO but I can't watch SD anymore. The beginning of "Boston Legal," also had significant audio problems.

I had severe audio problems last week on Desperate Housewives recorded OTA. I haven't tried this week's recording yet.

I gave Comcast a call this morning. The rep again quoted "mid-November". Also said that it was not possible to pre-order one. Oh well, if they don't want to keep track of who wants one, they'll hear from me every other day :)

From another thread about the 6412, this guy in Texas allready has 2 of these things that he picked up by going to the comcast offices. He wrote:

I swapped out two of my 6208 for two 6412s. I went to Lewisville and the guy said they are having their training on Wednesday. Their office is actually going to be closed for training. There was a sign on the door. He said someone mispoke so they are releasing them early. He said they only had 4 left at that location. The others are in the warehouse.. So I could only get one. So I then drove over to Plano and got another. Same sign on door about being closed for training. But I got my two 6412s and am in DVR heaven

If anyone in Seattle tries this and is successful let us know!

Does the 6412 replace my current cable box (5100) or do I still need to keep my cable box as well? If it replaces the 5100, do you think we can just walk into the office with the 5100 and get a 6412 ?

Darryl

Originally posted by djmattyb
From another thread about the 6412, this guy in Texas allready has 2 of these things that he picked up by going to the comcast offices. He wrote:



If anyone in Seattle tries this and is successful let us know!


What about calling one of the offices? The yellow pages lists the bellevue office phone number (425-462-2863). Not sure if this would do any good but might be worth a shot. I'm sure they already have the units in stock and are just waiting a couple weeks to release them.

Originally posted by darmad2002
Does the 6412 replace my current cable box (5100) or do I still need to keep my cable box as well? If it replaces the 5100, do you think we can just walk into the office with the 5100 and get a 6412 ?

Darryl

Yes the 6412 will replace your 5100. People in other parts of the country have been able to exchange them at an office but i'm not sure if the policy in Seattle will be the same.

I tried calling the 425-462-2863 2 times today. No answer.

I guess we'll have to wait for someone to stop by one of the comcast stores.

I emailed a contact at Comcast who has been able to give me some insight in the past. Here is what he said:

Yes actually with some very exciting news. We have unofficially targeted
Nov. 15 as our launch date for our DVR service. The service will feature:
* Motorola 6412 dual tuner, high-definition set-top
* Microsoft's "Foundation 1.7" interactive programming guide
* Tentative pricing is $9.99/set-top/month

We have this in a "friendlies" test environment and have a couple of issues
to work out that may push the timing around a bit, but I fullay expect this
solution to be ready real soon. Look for an announcement in early November.

Let me know if you have any questions and if you decide to pick up one I
would love you feedback (good, bad, or indifferent). Thanks.

Well heck, I would love to pick one up an give feedback. Just tell me where to go to pick one up! Heh. Looks like we'll have to wait until mid Nov.

Originally posted by abanih
KIRO - Claims the pissing match is all about Pittsburgh, PA. In particular a NWCN like news channel owned by Cox that Comcast doesn't want to carry as they have their own similar channel for Pitt.

There might actually be some truth to that.

WPXI's retransmission consent bundle's always included PCNC, which is, other than a live 10:00PM newscast followed by a call-in show, always a tape-delay of the most recent WPXI newscast.

And since Comcast carries their own "CN8" in just about every northeastern market but Pittsburgh...

SonomaSearcher, in Post #2602, noted that Cox does not allow Comcast to carry NBC HD in the Pittsburgh market. They also do not allow Atlanta to get ABC in HD, San Francisco to get FOX in HD, and, of course, Seattle to get CBS in HD.

I'm surprised both companies are willing to risk the advertising eyeballs over a channel that carries a taped loop of news. I know many don't watch CBS, period, and I myself dump all of my CBS (by far the channel I watch the most) to TiVo since I can't get it in HD and I can therefore skip all the commercials. Instead, I watch NBC, ABC, WB, and FOX in HD. I imagine I'm not alone, either.

As an aside, if they give us UPN in HD, I'll move them from the TiVo category to Live, as well.

Originally posted by Nausicaa
[I'm surprised both companies are willing to risk the advertising eyeballs over a channel that carries a taped loop of news.

There are no advertising eyeballs for KIRO HD. They still cannot insert local ads into the HD feed.

Despite all these corporate conspiracy theories, I still think that's the reason KIRO is not on Comcast.

Does anybody know if you will be able to watch shows from one box on another box? What if I want to record some shows on my downstairs box and watch them upstairs... Or am I going to need to get 2 boxes?


Originally posted by IssaquahHD
I emailed a contact at Comcast who has been able to give me some insight in the past. Here is what he said:

Yes actually with some very exciting news. We have unofficially targeted
Nov. 15 as our launch date for our DVR service. The service will feature:
* Motorola 6412 dual tuner, high-definition set-top
* Microsoft's "Foundation 1.7" interactive programming guide
* Tentative pricing is $9.99/set-top/month

We have this in a "friendlies" test environment and have a couple of issues
to work out that may push the timing around a bit, but I fullay expect this
solution to be ready real soon. Look for an announcement in early November.

Let me know if you have any questions and if you decide to pick up one I
would love you feedback (good, bad, or indifferent). Thanks.

As it stands right now there will be no way to share shows between boxes. Motorola has announced that they are developing a box that will be able to play the shows from one 6208/6412 on another tv. If or when Comcast will distribute a box like this is unknown. For now I would say your best option is either two boxes or distributing the signal from the 6412 to other tvs in your house via a modulator and using a remote extender.


Originally posted by jsmbluecar
Does anybody know if you will be able to watch shows from one box on another box? What if I want to record some shows on my downstairs box and watch them upstairs... Or am I going to need to get 2 boxes?

I might just end up giving these guys more money then. I wonder if there is another way to fake it given that I have cat5 wiring throughout the house...

A letter I wrote to Cox:
It is my understanding that Cox Televison which owns local Seattle CBS
affilliate KIRO-7 will not come to an agreement with Comcast Cable in
Seattle which would allow it to broadcast KIRO-7's television programming in
high definition, satisfying the needs of the growing HDTV cable audience in
the greater Seattle area. Until this situation becomes resolved, which it
has with with the other network television stations in Seattle, including
ABC KOMO-4 and NBC KING-5, I feel compelled to boycott all CBS KIRO-7
television programming in the Seattle market. I will be forwarding this
email along to my fellow high definition television enthusiasts, encouraging
them to do the same. Please allow Comcast Cable to re-transmit KIRO-7's
signal in high definition format, as Comcast has already allocated a channel
for your KIRO-7 programming.

Thank-you,
Matthew Johnson


and their reply:

Matt Johnson,

We appreciate your letting us know your interest in receiving our station's HD signal over Comcast. Our management has been working tirelessly to get our differences resolved but to no avail at this point.

You can be sure our desire is to have you enjoying our HD programming as soon as possible and we are also disappointed that this remains unresolved.

Currently an excellent signal is available over the air with a number of viewers in your area currently enjoying our HD programming with an inexpensive HD antennae.

I hope and trust you are also communicating your frustration with Comcast so they know they have customers who would like to see them resolve this.

For now we will continue to work to resolve our negotiations so our HD programming can be seen over Comcast by you and their subscribers.

Mary Sue Pressley
Cox Television


Seems like it's still finger pointing. No real explination of what they are talking about or why it is taking so long. Instead they suggest getting their signal over the air with "an inexpensive HD antennae". Too bad the OTA tuner you plug the "antennae" into costs $300.

"working tirelessly" lmao, yeah right.

OTA kind of blows in the NW, unless you live in Seattle. Too many hills and trees. That's one of the major reasons I switched to cable.

Originally posted by Tom_Oliver
OTA kind of blows in the NW, unless you live in Seattle. Too many hills and trees. That's one of the major reasons I switched to cable.

Yeah, maybe somebody should respond to this person and remind them that Seattle is not in the flat midwest.

I think I can get a decent HD signal OTA at my house, but I'm not going to spend the money just to watch CBS. I'll just boycott them like a lot of other people here are.

Originally posted by jsmbluecar
Does anybody know if you will be able to watch shows from one box on another box? What if I want to record some shows on my downstairs box and watch them upstairs... Or am I going to need to get 2 boxes?

Hehe.. Spoiled by our networked ReplayTVs, are we? :P

Originally posted by Karyk
There are no advertising eyeballs for KIRO HD. They still cannot insert local ads into the HD feed.

Despite all these corporate conspiracy theories, I still think that's the reason KIRO is not on Comcast.

Seems logical, but begs the question of why they'd come to a retransmission consent agreement with Click! in Tacoma.

I find it laughable at this point: KIRO-DT's available on digital cable across most of Canada. But not in Seattle. :)

Originally posted by pastiche
There might actually be some truth to that.

WPXI's retransmission consent bundle's always included PCNC, which is, other than a live 10:00PM newscast followed by a call-in show, always a tape-delay of the most recent WPXI newscast.

And since Comcast carries their own "CN8" in just about every northeastern market but Pittsburgh...

(First time poster, long time reader)

I am originally from a town north of Pittsburgh (Hermitage PA), and while I am not happy about the whole Comcast/Cox situation in the Seattle area, we have it really good here. I go back home every year for the holidays, and the cable situation is really bad there. My family has Adelphia cable. They pay more for about 30 channels than I pay for digital cable. They have no HDTV except HBO, which you pay extra for, and 3 or 4 of those channels are shopping channels. They get PCNC, but it is completely unwatchable. When asked why it was so snowy, the cable co. says that they are testing (for the past 2 years) HDTV channels, and because of bandwith issues there is overlap between PCNC and those HD channels.

Originally posted by pastiche
Seems logical, but begs the question of why they'd come to a retransmission consent agreement with Click! in Tacoma.

I find it laughable at this point: KIRO-DT's available on digital cable across most of Canada. But not in Seattle. :)

I assume Click! has far fewer subscribers than Comcast, and probably local advertisers don't care about viewers in Canada either way.

The number of new HD PVR boxes in this area has been estimated at 30,000 (and one time was estimated at 60,000), which if true would mean the number of HD viewers on Comcast is starting to become significant (assuming 30,000 is only a fraction of the current HD subscribers).

Originally posted by Karyk
I assume Click! has far fewer subscribers than Comcast, and probably local advertisers don't care about viewers in Canada either way.

The number of new HD PVR boxes in this area has been estimated at 30,000 (and one time was estimated at 60,000), which if true would mean the number of HD viewers on Comcast is starting to become significant (assuming 30,000 is only a fraction of the current HD subscribers).

Do you think there are that many Comcast HD subscribers here, or could it be simply that Comcast is going to push the 6412 to non-HD users, as has been suggested here before?

A Comcast engineer I talked to said that Comcast would be using the 6412 as their PVR (actually, he said DVR) for everyone, not just HD customers.

Does anyone here have any idea how many Comcast HDTV subscribers there are in Seattle?

Originally posted by artshotwell
A Comcast engineer I talked to said that Comcast would be using the 6412 as their PVR (actually, he said DVR) for everyone, not just HD customers.

Maybe that makes sense planning for the future. Really makes me question the price of an HD Tivo, however.

Originally posted by Karyk
I assume Click! has far fewer subscribers than Comcast, and probably local advertisers don't care about viewers in Canada either way.

Too true. It may also have been helpful that Click! is a government rather than private entity.

Do the other affected Cox stations (i.e. KTVU, WPXI) lack local-insertion capability as does KIRO?

Originally posted by Karyk
There are no advertising eyeballs for KIRO HD. They still cannot insert local ads into the HD feed.

Despite all these corporate conspiracy theories, I still think that's the reason KIRO is not on Comcast.

THAT'S IT!! You hit the nail square on the head. There're not going to piss off their sponsors. And of course, KIRO execs/PR aren't going to fess up THEY are the ones holding back on a cable deal. If the Seahawks were on CBS, they'd for sure find a way to commerialized their HD feed.

I don't understand this "can't insert local ads" theory. Why is it only Cox-owned stations in major Comcast cable markets (Seattle, San Fran, Atlanta) that are unable to do this? Is it that Cox is too cheap to let these stations buy the right kind of expensive encoder gadget? Are they the only HD stations in the country who care about local advertising?

I don't know anything about other Cox stations, but even as long as almost a year ago, more and more CBS stations were gaining the ability to insert local commercials (based on what I read in a thread here), but KIRO still cannot insert local ads. So KIRO is lagging.

It is expensive and complicated to be able to insert local spots in a digital feed. I know the chief engineer at KCPQ/KTWB and he went through months of problems with their equipment. There isn't enough to go around and what's there is full of bugs. He told me all kinds of stories about having to send equipment back to Europe to have firmware updated, only to find still more bugs.

Because I could receive KCPQ off-air, he'd call me when he was testing the digital channel. He couldn't receive KCPQ off-air at the station, so he had no idea what the air looked like. Now he relies on cable. And, most of his problems are solved.

But, Tribune has allocated lots of money to bring all their stations into the digital world while Cox apparently has not.

Originally posted by pastiche
Too true. It may also have been helpful that Click! is a government rather than private entity.

Perhaps. But FWIW, Millennium here in Seattle currently carries KIRO as one of their 4 HD stations (along with KOMO, KING, and KONG).

Of course, I'd still give it up and move to Comcast if I could, if only for Discovery, PBS, HBO, and SHO in HD, and the chance for a PVR in the near future. :(

On an even more basic level: KIRO is already producing a digital feed. They send it out OTA. So they can't insert local ads- so what? There's no additional cost for them to allow Comcast to carry it, and I can't imagine that x number of people watching the digital as opposed to analog feed will affect their local advertising rates all that much.

Originally posted by drbenson
On an even more basic level: KIRO is already producing a digital feed. They send it out OTA. So they can't insert local ads- so what? There's no additional cost for them to allow Comcast to carry it, and I can't imagine that x number of people watching the digital as opposed to analog feed will affect their local advertising rates all that much.

Just think who those viewers are. People with HD sets and mainly high end cable. In other words, most likely significant consumers. People who advertise soap might not care much, but there could be advertisers of high end products that in chosing between KIRO, KING or KOMO would rule out KIRO.

Well it’s kind of funny cause a lot of us aren’t watching CBS at ALL now.

Originally posted by Karyk
Just think who those viewers are. People with HD sets and mainly high end cable. In other words, most likely significant consumers. People who advertise soap might not care much, but there could be advertisers of high end products that in chosing between KIRO, KING or KOMO would rule out KIRO.

I agree that HDTV viewers should be an attractive market for advertisers of high end products. So KIRO thinks they're going to curry favor with those advertisers by pissing off those 'significant consumers' by withholding their feed from Comcast? Makes no sense to me. KIRO has already ruled themselves out forever by their actions, if that's the case.

And yes, additionally, they have driven us away from CBS entirely.

Originally posted by MeteredSection
Perhaps. But FWIW, Millennium here in Seattle currently carries KIRO as one of their 4 HD stations (along with KOMO, KING, and KONG).

Did some Googling... add Wave Broadband on the Peninsula to Millennium and Click!

KIRO / See BS (Oooops, I mean CBS) doesn't really have anything to offer anyway. I think this xmas season will be real big for HDTV, plus the release of Comcast PVR, will make us a group to contend with. KIRO will HAVE to find a way to resolve this issue.

Too bad ABC still can't figure out a way to send clean sound and eliminate the dropouts!

Hmmm, I haven't noticed audio dropouts on KOMO.

It's the drop outs that has driven me away from HD for a while.

Todays Seatlle Times had a blurb that next Monday there would be an announcement about Comcast/Microsoft new program guide. Also that the PVR's would be in our area before year end.
Hopefully available by mid month Nov as we have heard from several sources.

This is supposed to occur on Nov 15th., see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=455705

This morning I attempted to schedule installation but was told to call back on the release date.

markhs, same for me... told to call back on the 15th

Originally posted by nodrog2
Todays Seatlle Times had a blurb that next Monday there would be an announcement about Comcast/Microsoft new program guide. Also that the PVR's would be in our area before year end.
Hopefully available by mid month Nov as we have heard from several sources.
Will those of us with 5100s get the new program guide? Or is it for 6412s only? Link to the article?

Link to the article:

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=btdownload01&date=20041101&query=comcast

The Comcast blurb is at the bottom and it's short:
Microsoft's TV division and Comcast are making an announcement here next Monday. They're trying to keep the news under wraps until then, but the cat's already out of the bag.

They announced in May that Comcast would deploy Microsoft's latest TV Foundation software on up to 5 million set-top boxes.

Then Comcast executives told The Seattle Times last month they plan to deploy the boxes in the Seattle area by the end of this year.

Fans of Microsoft's WebTV can hardly wait.

This may be old news, but I stopped at the Comcast office on the way home yesterday.

They told me that customers can exchange 5100's for 6412's at the office - no technician visit needed.

When... the rep said 'real soon - come back in a week or so'.

If you can't wait to see one, they have a unit in the lobby hooked up to an RP HDTV.

JasG,

Was this unit displayed at the Redmond office ?

Darryl

What is the address of the Seattle office?

1140 N 94th St
Seattle WA 98103

is there one in the northend? everett??

Where is the Redmond office?

I'm not sure of the exact location of the Redmond office but I do know it's on 95th in Redmond in an industrial type complex.

Darryl

The old Viacom location was off Willows road. Not sure if it's the same place.

14870 NE 95th St.
Redmond, WA 98052
Monday - Saturday 9AM-6PM

First one who gets one please post here.

Originally posted by JasG
This may be old news, but I stopped at the Comcast office on the way home yesterday.

They told me that customers can exchange 5100's for 6412's at the office - no technician visit needed.

When... the rep said 'real soon - come back in a week or so'.


WooT! good 2 know.. I will def be checking this out next week!

Originally posted by darmad2002
Was this unit displayed at the Redmond office ? No, Seattle office.

Originally posted by JasG
This may be old news, but I stopped at the Comcast office on the way home yesterday.

They told me that customers can exchange 5100's for 6412's at the office - no technician visit needed.

When... the rep said 'real soon - come back in a week or so'.

If you can't wait to see one, they have a unit in the lobby hooked up to an RP HDTV.

If this is true then this would be far superior to waiting around for most of a day at home (while taking a day off work) just to have someone hand the box to you. And being charged $30 for the privilege. I will be at the Redmond location on the 15th, if they swap my STB I will definitely be a happy customer...

You shouldn't have problems getting a hold of the DVR's. They have quite a surplus in the warehouses, and are encouraging employees to take one home. This being the case, you know they're comfortable with the numbers. They're not nearly as uptight as they were when the 5100's launched.

My understanding of DVR pricing is this:
The $9.95 number cited earlier on this board is partially correct; however, we as HDTV customer are already paying the $5 "advanced set-top box fee". Therefore, our price increase for DVR service will only be $4.95.

$5.00 - Advanced Set-Top Box Fee
$4.95 - DVR Service Fee
========================
$9.95 - Total fee for Advanced box and DVR. This is the amount customers with standard DCT's will see their bill increase by if the upgrade to DVR.

Good news for all of us....

Jeff, yeah that price breakout would make sense, and i don't have a problem with dropping an extra 5$/mo for the HD/PVR functionality.

Though i do wish they had something bigger than a 120gig drive in it.. a 250gig in there would be a good start :)

Since the 6412 will cost HD customers $4.99 more, but non-HD customers $9.99 more, it should lessen the appeal of the box to the non-HD customers.

I stopped in at a Comcast office. They told me they do get occassional requests for Tivo-like devices. In the Seattle area, Comcast hasn't had any DVRs available at all. The 6412 will be the first. Apparently, they decided to skip the 6208 and jump right to the 6412. So, the run here might be heavier than some other cities.

Are they going to let me have 2 of them right away do you think?

I don't see why not. They didn't mention that there would be any king of limitations. They said I have been the only person to stop in and request the new DVR. They promised to call me; we'll see.

Originally posted by artshotwell
I stopped in at a Comcast office. They told me they do get occassional requests for Tivo-like devices. In the Seattle area, Comcast hasn't had any DVRs available at all. The 6412 will be the first. Apparently, they decided to skip the 6208 and jump right to the 6412. So, the run here might be heavier than some other cities.
The 6200 series has actually been in use here for some time now.

Okay, I stand corrected. They had told me, though, that this is the first comcast DVR available in Western Washington.

This is the first DVR in Western Washington, the 6200 is not a DVR.

I live downtown Seattle.......I'm interested in exchanging mine at the nearest office. Simple question....where is that?

This link takes you to the payment locations where you can also exchange equipment. Read what services each location has as some don't do equipment.

http://www.comcast.com/Membership/Locate_Payment_Center.asp?LocResult

I've been using the new MS guide for a little while and I think that you will love 90% of it. There are a few things I noticed about it right off the bat.. Programs aren't color coded. Movies aren't red, sports aren't green, etc. And I haven't seen a reminder function. I just got it going at home and am still learning, but I can say it is a huge step forward from the existing guide

I've been told the reason that the programs are not color coded any more is because colors will mean things like "DVR is recording this program" or "this program is part of series that you want recorded". Some really positive things... if you do happen to use Tivo you'll appreciate that the "flip-bar" can be completely disabled. You'll be able to create channel lists that do not include channels you never watch. There's a mini-guide that only uses about 1/4 of the screen, shows 90 minute blocks of time and four channels at once (much improved version of flip-bar guide on TVG IPG). You can now configure how the AC Outlet on the back of the box behaves (turn on & off w/ box or stays on). There's also an RF bypass option that you can turn on to allow the cable signal to passed through the cable box (when powered off? I haven't played with it). The new DVR boxes will not even have RF outputs though so I don't know how many standard TV watchers will be bummed out over that... Plans are still on to start taking orders for DVR on 11/15, new DVR's come w/ new guide. Other Advanced DCTs get the guide around 12/15. Standard boxes get the new guide pushed out to them some time Q1 2005. That's everything I've heard this weekend. Check you guys later...

Oh yeah, I got to look at the DVR this week and it appears the only thing about it that is very different from Tivo is that will not be recommending any programs to you... you have to figure out yourself what you want it to record... I'm sure to some people that's good and to others it's bad. other than that, I think it has most of the same functionality.

http://www.news.com/

Microsoft braces for crucial TV test
By Ina Fried
http://news.com.com/Microsoft+braces+for+crucial+TV+test/2100-1046_3-5439570.html

Story last modified November 5, 2004, 8:55 AM PST



After years of finding only static, Microsoft is hoping that its TV software effort is starting to get a decent reception.
The software maker has spent years working on the software and invested billions of dollars in cable companies, but has seen only modest returns.

Now, thanks to a deal with Comcast, the largest cable TV provider in the United States, Microsoft hopes its fortunes are changing. On Monday, the two companies are expected to announce details about how their efforts are proceeding at a press conference on Microsoft's campus in Redmond, Wash.

"This is hugely important to the future of Microsoft TV," Forrester Research analyst Josh Bernoff said, commenting on Microsoft's cable push in general. "If Microsoft TV becomes successful at Comcast, it will rapidly spread through the rest of the cable industry in the U.S. If it isn't successful, then they have spent 10 years for nothing."

Representatives of Microsoft and Comcast declined to comment before Monday's announcement.

Microsoft has long eyed the TV market as a way to move beyond its PC roots, but its efforts have so far met only limited success.

Its vision has morphed over the years, from an ambitious attempt to bring PC-like functions onto the television to a more prosaic effort to improve video delivery. These days, it is focused on low-profile improvements in basic cable functions--for example, facilitating digital video recording on cable set-top boxes and showing program schedules.

The company spent several hundred million dollars to acquire WebTV in 1997 and later invested $1 billion in Comcast and $5 billion in AT&T, when Ma Bell was purchasing cable company Media One.

The software has gradually gained some momentum, with Microsoft signing a few deals in Mexico. In the United States, though, its adoption has largely been limited to some small-scale trials.

Earlier this year, Comcast announced a deal to use Microsoft's software on up to 5 million set-top boxes. New details from that partnership are expected Monday. Industry publication CableFax reported that Microsoft will announce that Comcast is testing its software in the Seattle area.

Too much, too early
The software giant readily admits that its early efforts in the TV market came too early and were too ambitious.

"We got involved in TV-related software way too early, and we spent $500 (million) or $600 million before its time," Chairman Bill Gates said during a speech in Berkeley, Calif., last month.

For many years, much of the effort by Microsoft and others was on so-called interactive television--merging TV with e-mail, Web surfing and e-commerce. Cable companies saw it as a way to fend off satellite services, and technology companies were tempted by the possibility of a cut of the sales.


Microsoft also pursued the satellite market with a pricey service for DirecTV customers called UltimateTV, which combined WebTV and digital video recording with satellite service. The hardware, though, cost hundreds of dollars, and monthly service fees topped $100, in some cases.

Not long after it launched UltimateTV, Microsoft stopped pitching the service and began trying to refocus its efforts on the mainstream cable market rather than push a feature-rich product that would require expensive new hardware.

Although Microsoft was hurt by the slow pace at which both cable and satellite companies adopted new technology, the company has also benefited to some degree as once-strong competition has faded. Some start-ups folded altogether, while other players, such as Liberate Technologies, have fallen on hard times.

"The cable operators moved so slowly that most companies ended up pulling way back. And in particular, Liberate now is in a very difficult financial state because of having to wait around," Bernoff said.

The battle between satellite and cable is still strong, but the push toward interactive TV has waned, said Aditya Kishore, an analyst at The Yankee Group. These days, the battle tends to center on high-definition broadcasts, video-on-demand and digital video recording.

"There is more interest in HDTV, VOD and DVR than what was traditionally known as interactive TV," said Kishore.

Microsoft has revamped its software to focus on these types of features. Its main product is known as Microsoft TV Foundation Edition, and it works with the standard-issue digital set-top boxes used by Comcast and others. The software's main features are enabling video-on-demand, interactive program guides and digital video recording.

Bernoff said Microsoft's software has moved from "completely inappropriate" to "really intriguing," in part because of the changes Microsoft has made and in part because the set-top boxes are now more capable.

Cable operators need better software, from Microsoft or others, to take advantage of the powerful processors in the current generation of set-top boxes, most of which are used only to run an interactive program guide and offer limited pay-per-view movies.

Beyond trials
Thus far, though, Microsoft has yet to move beyond trials in the United States. Time Warner Cable tested Microsoft's interactive program guide software in Beaumont, Texas, but abandoned that test with plans to focus on using a future version of Microsoft TV Foundation Edition software. The company has said it has committed to further work with Microsoft, but a representative would not comment on any specific plans.

Microsoft has achieved somewhat more success in Mexico, with cable operators Cablevision and Megacable, which have used various versions of Microsoft's TV software there.

But all eyes are on Comcast, Bernoff said.

The need for the cable companies to move quicker is clear, said Steve Perlman, who founded WebTV. "They are struggling now to simply stem the unraveling of their customer base," he said. "They're a monopoly that has never faced a situation where their market was steadily shrinking."

The competition is poised to only increase, he said, as telephone and other companies look to offer video service over high-speed Internet connections, a technology known as IPTV. Microsoft is also trying to nab that market with a separate version of its TV software.

Bell Canada agreed to test the software. In the United States, SBC Communications has also said it will do trials with the software, as have Switzerland's Swisscom, India's Reliance Infocomm and Italy's Telecom Italia.

Whether it is cable, satellite or telecommunications companies that ultimately lead the way, Gates said in the Berkeley speech that the concept is finally moving toward reality.

"Now actually, this idea of delivering video streams over the IP network--so that you can individualize every video stream, have complete control over it--its time has finally come," Gates said.

CNET News.com's Richard Shim and Jim Hu contributed to this report.

Copyright Š1995-2004 CNET Networks, Inc. All rights reserved.

I can't wait to get my hands on this new box. Anything will be better then the guide we currently have. This might also allow me to finally get rid of Directv and just use Comcast. I can't believe after 1 1/2 years of waiting it's almost here!

Originally posted by jeff28

Oh yeah, I got to look at the DVR this week and it appears the only thing about it that is very different from Tivo is that will not be recommending any programs to you... you have to figure out yourself what you want it to record... I'm sure to some people that's good and to others it's bad. other than that, I think it has most of the same functionality.

So it has season passes and the ability to prioritize them and define how many episodes to keep, how long to keep them, etc.? Will it automatically overwrite old recordings but let you mark some of them to save indefinitely?

--
Steve

I believe the answer to all of your questions is yes. I'm not sure about defining how many episodes to keep and how long, because I didn't get to play with it myself. Definitely has season pass, ability to prioritize what gets recorded if there's a scheduling conflict. *I think* (don't quote me) that you can be recording two things at once, and be watching a third event if it's locally stored on the DVR (not a live channel). It does automatically overwrite old recordings unless you tell it not to (first in, first out). You can flag individual events to be saved indefinitely. It automatically records in the format the programing originates including DD 5.1 and HDTV (which is why they can't say how many hours of recording you have, it is even different for analog channels vs. digital channels). Everything you watched is buffered for 12-40 min (depending on format) to allow for rewinding, etc. and if you decide to record something it will begin recording from the beginning of the buffer (I don't know if that's optional or not, I assume it's a choice of recording from the start of the buffer or from the second you press record). Turning the power button off doesn't screw anything up, just turns the displays and video outputs off. on-screen displays don't disrupt things being recorded. They did everything they could to make it "customer proof" (you know the types of customers I'm talking about). I just can't think of all the things I was told... if you have other questions I'll try to find out the answers. I have indirect access to the training deck they used with the CSRs.

if you have other questions I'll try to find out the answers. I have access to a training deck they used (not a postable, electronic copy though - sorry).

Does if have discrete power on / power off?

Originally posted by jameskollar
Does if have discrete power on / power off?

I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't know what that means. Explain it and I'll find out.

Is there a different remote code for on and off?

It helps when programming macros into your remote. Many products only have a toggle (at least on the remote), so if it gets out of sync, you're turning it on when everything else is turning off.

--Mike

Originally posted by Llamas
Is there a different remote code for on and off?

OK that makes complete sense. I've emailed the question over to my guy at Comcast. My strong guess is that the answer will be "no". Although a new remote will be issued with some DVR shortcut functions on it, I seem to remember hearing that the old remotes (black and silver versions) are supposed to be compatible as well. If I'm understanding how discrete power on/off works correctly, I don't think the old remotes would still work... Is my logic correct?

Switching gears completely here... I notice that KCPQ will not be airing a football game tomorrow between 10A and 1P, even though it appears that FOX has several games going on at that time that I assume KCPQ could choose to carry.

WEEK 9 FOX LINEUP — Sunday, November 7
Early Games (1 p.m. ET)
Eagles-Steelers
Redskins-Lions
Cowboys-Bengals
Cardinals-Dolphins

Late Games (4 p.m. ET)
Bears-Giants
Saints-Chargers
Seahawks-49ers

Does anyone know why this happens? I can't imagine the movie they're going to run drawing better ratings... Just wondered if any of you had some insight about this.

Only at most one of the networks (Fox and CBS) will have a doubleheader on any Sunday. This week is CBS's turn. There are other rules involving conflicts with the home team, but they don't apply tomorrow, since the Seahawks are on the road.

We can't watch CBS anyway. :)

Originally posted by Tom_Oliver
We can't watch CBS anyway. :)

Which is one of the main reasons I don't have more than a passing interest in the 6412.

The DirecTV/HDTiVo combo is nice, but not unbeatable. However, any solution that results in losing HD college and NFL football, golf and NCAA tournement coverage isn't a solution for me. :D

A couple of comments:

I've got a 6412 at home now. I've had it for about a week, and the new MS guide for 2 days. And you CAN record 2 seperate programs on seperate channels while watching a previously recorded program. Very cool.

I also have the new remote. It is modeled after the newer silver controllers, with some extra buttons. The existing transport (or VCR) buttons are the central DVR control area. The normal play/rew/ff/stop/rec are there along with an "instant replay" button and a LIVE button. The Rew and FF controls have 3 levels of speed.
A button labeled "My DVR" brings you to the main DVR control page in the menu. This is where you see the list of programs you've recorded, and what you'd like to do with them.
The A, B, and C buttons below the DVR controls act as lock, day- and day+ (features also missing from the previous silver remote). The up/down/L/R arrow buttons now act as quick action controls for controlling DVR recording and playback. You can no longer just press the up or down arrow to check listings for channels while viewing another.
On the bottom with the number keys, the Enter button has HD zoom printed on it. I'm not sure of the use for this button, as it does nothing when watching HD. It may be a button designed for TV aspect changes..
On the very bottom of the remote are a set of PiP buttons which are not operational on the 6412 right now.
In regard to the discrete power on/off, I'm fairly confident there is not a different on/off command code available.

You can now configure how the AC Outlet on the back of the box behaves (turn on & off w/ box or stays on). There's also an RF bypass option that you can turn on to allow the cable signal to passed through the cable box (when powered off? I haven't played with it).
You can actually do this on the all other existing DCT's through the Setup portion of the main menu.

will Firewire be enabled on the 6214s??

Yes, it's functional. DVI, etc. just like the 5100's and 6200's.

Originally posted by jeff28
If I'm understanding how discrete power on/off works correctly, I don't think the old remotes would still work... Is my logic correct?

Discrete codes usually live along side an on/off toggle code, so compatibility with remotes that only know the toggle code doesn't rule discretes out. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

--Mike

OK - Now for the dumb question...
Is the STB Black or Silver (Critical to my wife)?

Those who have it:

Can you record Discovery HD and the InHD channels?

Has anyone tried archiving to HTPC via the Firewire port?

Originally posted by brvheart

I also have the new remote. It is modeled after the newer silver controllers, with some extra buttons. The existing transport (or VCR) buttons are the central DVR control area. The normal play/rew/ff/stop/rec are there along with an "instant replay" button and a LIVE button. The Rew and FF controls have 3 levels of speed.
A button labeled "My DVR" brings you to the main DVR control page in the menu. This is where you see the list of programs you've recorded, and what you'd like to do with them.
The A, B, and C buttons below the DVR controls act as lock, day- and day+ (features also missing from the previous silver remote). The up/down/L/R arrow buttons now act as quick action controls for controlling DVR recording and playback. You can no longer just press the up or down arrow to check listings for channels while viewing another.
On the bottom with the number keys, the Enter button has HD zoom printed on it. I'm not sure of the use for this button, as it does nothing when watching HD. It may be a button designed for TV aspect changes..
On the very bottom of the remote are a set of PiP buttons which are not operational on the 6412 right now.
In regard to the discrete power on/off, I'm fairly confident there is not a different on/off command code available.


This is the "new" remote? It sounds like the same one I got when my 6208 was installed - over six months ago.

Did anyone find the announcement that was supposed to be in the Seattle Times today about the new Microsoft Foundation guide? I read the paper this morning but couldn't find anything. I'm surprised they said there would be an announcement today and then nothing.

I don't deal with newsprint, but this was in the online financial news:

Comcast, Microsoft to update set-top box venture

http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh23528_2004-11-08_16-42-29_n08370769_newsml

This is the "new" remote? It sounds like the same one I got when my 6208 was installed - over six months ago.
Well, it's new to us. I don't know about Minnesota, but if you already have DVR service, it would make sense for you to have this remote. If you don't have DVR functionality on your 6208 it would make little sense for you to have a DVR remote.

Can you record Discovery HD and the InHD channels?
Has anyone tried archiving to HTPC via the Firewire port?

Yes you can record DiscHD and InHD. Basically anything, HD or not.
And the firewire in and out is functional, so if your HTPC is configured for firewire, then you're good to go.

OK - Now for the dumb question...
Is the STB Black or Silver (Critical to my wife)?

It's silver. Looks identical to the existing HD 5100 and 6208 boxes. Just some small print in the lower left corner signifying it's a DVR.

Originally posted by brvheart
Yes you can record DiscHD and InHD. Basically anything, HD or not.

I'd be a bit surprised if it lets you record anything. I'm sure it's up to the programmers as to which shows they will allow to be recorded. For instance, I doubt the music only channels or the OnDemand content are recordable. Likewise, I wouldn't be shocked if some really big events are not able to be recorded.

Just curious, how did you get the box already? Do you work for Comcast, or was there something special you did to get on a test program with them? In either case, it's good to be getting some info on these boxes. Can't wait to try one myself!

I would be very surprised if it stopped you from recording any shows (maybe the exception of PPV special events). The shows are still encrypted and protected.

Why would it behave any different from a DTivo HD unit?

-eric

Originally posted by wareagle
I don't deal with newsprint, but this was in the online financial news:

Comcast, Microsoft to update set-top box venture

http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh23528_2004-11-08_16-42-29_n08370769_newsml

Here's a later announcement:

Comcast and Microsoft Announce First U.S. Commercial Deployment of Microsoft TV Foundation Edition
Monday November 8, 3:30 pm ET
New Software Will Support Advanced Digital Cable Services, Including the Launch of Dual-Tuner Digital Video Recorders to 1 Million Customers in Washington State


http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041108/sfm066_1.html

I've noticed that quite often when I switch from an HD channel to an SD channel (such as 105 to 007 just as an example) the center channel is gone. If i switch my receiver to another input and then back to VCR2 (which is where my 6200 is connected) it comes back.

Also, just in the last couple of days, the audio on Disney (ch. 41) is coming only from the front left channel.

Anyone else notice similar problems?

Thanks!!

Microsoft has a press release on their web site. The URL is: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2004/nov04/11-08ComcastMSTV.asp

Of interest to many of us is that the Comcast Executive said that "Microsoft TV Foundation Edition will be made available to all Comcast Digital Cable customers. The software will be automatically downloaded to the set-top boxes over Comcast's digital network in phases over the next few months. " Basically, it sounds like all of the old digital cable boxes will get the Microsoft Guide, not just the new DVR boxes.

So who else has trepidation that we are getting brand new MS software on our 6412 boxes, unlike everyone else in the world, who are getting a tried and true operating system? I really don't want to receive a BSOD when recording Lost in HD.

Originally posted by danstone
I'd be a bit surprised if it lets you record anything. I'm sure it's up to the programmers as to which shows they will allow to be recorded. For instance, I doubt the music only channels or the OnDemand content are recordable. Likewise, I wouldn't be shocked if some really big events are not able to be recorded. I'd expect it to allow recording of any show flagged 5C=0 (copy freely) or 5C=1 (copy one-generation). That would cover all current digital & HD channels, including INHD, DISC-HD, HBO-HD, etc. I don't use OnDemand or PPV, so I don't know how those programs are flagged.

Originally posted by Al Shing
So who else has trepidation that we are getting brand new MS software on our 6412 boxes, unlike everyone else in the world, who are getting a tried and true operating system? I really don't want to receive a BSOD when recording Lost in HD. It is pretty well recognized by all on avsforum that MSTV FE is superior to the TV Guide product. Given the choice, based on what we know at this point, 99 percent (my rough estimate) would choose MSTV FE.

Anyone else see that THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST is available on the PPV HD page? Interesting.

You're all welcome to join the thread I started over in the HDTV recorders section -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467203

Hopefully this won't just be a seattle thing. :)

Originally posted by Malcolm_B
Anyone else see that THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST is available on the PPV HD page? Interesting.

I noticed it as well. I'm just hoping that it's the first of many mainstream movies (rather than reformatted IMAX documentaries from INHD 1 & 2) to become available this way!

Originally posted by jimre
I don't use OnDemand or PPV, so I don't know how those programs are flagged.

Looks like someone already tried recording one of the HD PPV movies and didn't have any luck.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=465917

Will we still be hoping for KIRO-HD for the duration of this contract?

CBS signs new pact with NFL

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7B99CD781F%2D428B%2D47BB%2D8797%2D9C934D536EB0%7D

Originally posted by danstone
I noticed it as well. I'm just hoping that it's the first of many mainstream movies (rather than reformatted IMAX documentaries from INHD 1 & 2) to become available this way!

Is this under "HDTV On Demand"? All I see there are six overpriced IMAX shows. Not that it matters.

I'd be a bit surprised if it lets you record anything. I'm sure it's up to the programmers as to which shows they will allow to be recorded. For instance, I doubt the music only channels or the OnDemand content are recordable. Likewise, I wouldn't be shocked if some really big events are not able to be recorded.


OK, I was pretty loose with my statement that pretty much "anything" can be recorded. I was speaking of your standard channels. Music-only channels, PPV, and OnDemand cannot be recorded. I should have clarified.

Originally posted by wareagle
Will we still be hoping for KIRO-HD for the duration of this contract?

CBS signs new pact with NFL

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7B99CD781F%2D428B%2D47BB%2D8797%2D9C934D536EB0%7D

Here's more on the renewal of the NFL deals, including CBS, Fox, and the DirecTV Sunday Ticket. Everything except ABC/ESPN:

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB109995340263868086,00.html?mod=yahoo_hs

answer to my own question... (although I see someone already answered it here...)


Yesterday (11/7) was a "singleheader" Sunday for all Fox affiliate stations, and since our home team played and was part of the NFL Fox selection, naturally the network assigned us that game (1p Seattle @ San Francisco). Not all Sundays are doubleheaders for Fox. When CBS has a doubleheader, we don't, and visa-versa. These agreements are done between the networks and the NFL before each regular season starts. CBS had early and late games yesterday.


There are plans for Q13 Fox News to be produced in HD, but not in the immediate future.


Thank you for taking the time to write us, and for watching Q13 Fox!


Also, I've been told that everything will be recordable on the DVR except On Demand. PPV will not be an issue as they're planning on moving all of it to On Demand including live events. I was told the music choice channels would be recordable as well but I'm not sure how that would work... still no word back on the discrete power deal...

Probably, but look at the bright side. They will have to at least update the form letters blaming the other side. :)

Originally posted by wareagle
Will we still be hoping for KIRO-HD for the duration of this contract?

CBS signs new pact with NFL

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7B99CD781F%2D428B%2D47BB%2D8797%2D9C934D536EB0%7D

I just spoke with a CSR and they told me that I won't be able to exchange my current 5100 for a 6412 DVR box by going down to the Redmond office next week. They must send someone to my house to "install". My appointment is scheduled for Thursday, 11/18.

Anyone else get a similar answer?

I've never been able to drop off or pick something up at the office. I'm paying $15.95 to have them bring the box over on Wednesday, the 17th. BTW, they are making appointments now for service visits! Order your box now so we can help each other get this going.

I am a little worried about the fan and drive noise. My room is very quiet. Let's start thinking about plexiglass covers with air vents in the back or something. My box will sit on top of my 34XBR.

Do we need a separate thread?

6412 Comcast users in Seattle?

Art

I just called (1-877-824-2288) and scheduled installation of the 6412 for Tuesday afternoon, 11/16. The CSR said they weren't stocking the boxes at the outlets, but I could choose any day next week for them to bring it out.

Confirming that you have to schedule to get the 6412 and that Monday is the earliest you can get it (will get it on Monday).

-eric

I really don't want to, but I just may give it a try, just to see what it's like. I really do wonder whether it will just be $4.95 over the $12.95 + 4.95 - $10.00 that I pay now for limited basic with HD.

Karyk,

My friend just tried to do that. He was put on hold while she went and talked to her supervisor. She finally came back with this answer:

"You have to upgrade to at the least digital classic to be eligible to get the PVR. We don't have enough boxes to supply to limited-basic-only customers."

This sounds like pure bs...

Looks like it's going to be an uphill battle for limited-basic users.

-eric

Originally posted by wareagle
Is this under "HDTV On Demand"? All I see there are six overpriced IMAX shows. Not that it matters.

Wow. The Passion is already gone from there! Talk about a short window, or else someone at Comcast got a little nervous.

In most, if not all, of its systems, Comcast is restricting DVR to those with Digital Cable subscriptions (the least expensive of which is an additional $10 per month above limited basic).

However, if you bring your 6200 into an office to swap it out for a 6412, you might get lucky. Hopefully, the front desk person won't look up your subscription level when processing your request (like a telephone CSR almost certainly would).

I just got off the phone with Comcast. I too was told you could not go to the locale cable store and pick up a box. I made an appointment for 12-2pm on Tuesday. When I told them I wanted two boxes they told me it would cost $5 for the first box (I am an HD customer) but if I wanted two boxes the second one was 9.95 more per month. That would mean $15 more per month for the two boxes. I asked if one box was an extra 5 why would another be $9.95 extra? He told me that was just the way it was. Long story short I will start with just the one.

Makes perfect sense to me. You've been paying $5 for the old one, which you replace with a $10 6412. Although you only pay $5 MORE for the first 6412, you ARE paying $10 for it -- which is what you pay for the second one.

Actually, the story is getting worse guys.

My friend just got a phone call from the Comcast service rep telling him that he also needed to upgrade to full analog package to get the DVR unit.

So, if that rep is right, the minimum configuration is now:
Full Analog ($40) + Classic Digital ($12) + DVR Box ($10) = $62

I think they're trying to milk as much as they can... :(

I happen to have those packages already, but my friend was simply getting the locals + HD, an that's a whopping 200% increase on his monthly bill! That's kinda silly...

-eric

What would the new box enable one to do, that the "old" Motorola HD box (mine was installed about 4 months ago) running the soon-to-be downloaded MS software would not enable one to do?

Thanks,
r-gordon-7

I think I’ll just show up Monday and try to exchange the box. It’s silly to have to pay extra for a service request, and those phone guys are morons. If I can’t exchange it I’ll setup a service request after I make a huge stink about it in their office.

OK, how did y'all manage to get appointments to get the 6412? I just called and the CSR told me they are not taking any orders until Monday. Did I get someone who is not in the know? Should I call back and hope to get a CSR who is in the know?

Originally posted by jameskollar
OK, how did y'all manage to get appointments to get the 6412? I just called and the CSR told me they are not taking any orders until Monday. Did I get someone who is not in the know? Should I call back and hope to get a CSR who is in the know?

Perhaps it's a matter of getting the random knowledgeable CSR. Or it could be that they're just humoring us, and no one will show up with the boxes next week.