Originally posted by r-gordon-7
What would the new box enable one to do, that the "old" Motorola HD box (mine was installed about 4 months ago) running the soon-to-be downloaded MS software would not enable one to do?... The new box is also a DVR - you know, like a Tivo.

Originally posted by r-gordon-7
What would the new box enable one to do, that the "old" Motorola HD box (mine was installed about 4 months ago) running the soon-to-be downloaded MS software would not enable one to do?

Record HD.

The $5 above the normal HD digital box charge is for the DVR hardware lease/functionality (however you want to figure they do the accounting).

My install is on Wednesday morning "sometime between 8-12".

--Mike

Just made my appointment !

Tuesday 8am-noon!

27.95 house call charge:mad:

but the CSR said there is no way around it

no house call = NO DVR

she said they are gonna go like hot cakes

- How much "recording time" do you get to "store" for the extra $5/mo?

- Is the allowed "storage" significantly reduced if most of the recorded material is in HD?

- Can you record any program source for which you otherwise pay/subscribe or are only certain sources/programs available for recording?

(I know I should be able to call Comcast with these questions, but my experience with calling them on other issues is that you get different answers each time you call without knowing which times, if any, you are getting accurate information from them...)

thanks,
r-gordon-7

Originally posted by r-gordon-7
- How much "recording time" do you get to "store" for the extra $5/mo?

- Is the allowed "storage" significantly reduced if most of the recorded material is in HD?

- Can you record any program source for which you otherwise pay/subscribe or are only certain sources/programs available for recording?

(I know I should be able to call Comcast with these questions, but my experience with calling them on other issues is that you get different answers each time you call without knowing which times, if any, you are getting accurate information from them...)

thanks,
r-gordon-7

-documentation says 60 hours for non HD and 15 for HD. Those are somewhat rough, and of course it will vary depending on what channel (analog/digital)

-yes, whatever HD you've recorded will drastically reduce your storage size

-not sure I understand the third question, but you can record only what content you subscribe to...

Originally posted by jeff28
Also, I've been told that everything will be recordable on the DVR except On Demand. PPV will not be an issue as they're planning on moving all of it to On Demand including live events. I was told the music choice channels would be recordable as well but I'm not sure how that would work... still no word back on the discrete power deal... [/B]
I don't know who told you that, but you CANNOT record the music only channels. I've got a 6412 in my living room.

I am scheduled for Tuesday am. the price of my cable is going up $5.00, but I am getting rid of my replay-tv charge of $12.00 @ month and I will be able to record HD. This unit has 2-recievers, you can either record one show and watch another, or record 2-shows. If you have a second box, record 2-shows and watch a third, like for Thursday nights!

Well, I sort of expected that it would be more than $4.95 for my limited account. I guess you all saved me a call.

I'm actually considering transitioning from DirecTV to Comcast, but not at those prices noted above. At those prices I'll just transition my Fusion card to Comcast when they get KIRO, and drop the existing box rental fee. Paying $50 a month for Comedy Central and HGTV (for the wife) is getting old.

I'm holding onto my Replay units, for now, for the network playback features (record on the unit in the kitchen, watch in the basement).

Originally posted by r-gordon-7
(I know I should be able to call Comcast with these questions, but my experience with calling them on other issues is that you get different answers each time you call without knowing which times, if any, you are getting accurate information from them...)

You might want to check here then:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467203

For what it's worth my contact at Comcast said they WILL be available at the cable store in Redmond. It may be worth a stop there on Monday if you want to avoid the installation fee.

Anyone from the Everett-Lynnwood area had any success at signing up for an install next week? Wondering if I should call now or wait till Monday.

I'm scheduled for Monday morning, between 8AM-12PM.

They quoted me a $15 something installation charge and $4.95 extra a month.

I work about 200 yards from the Redmond Comcast Store. I will let everyone know 1st thing Monday Morning if its possible.

I'm all set for a Tuesday install.

In Issaquah the minumum package is $27.99 for basic, $7.99 for digital classic, and $9.95 for the box. A total of $45.93. Considering i'm paying $40 for directv before the HD package and additional box charges you can't beat it. I just have to hope after using tivo for 2 years the DVR isn't a dissapointment.

Are you getting one of the satellite deals? When you switch to Comcast, you can usually extract a good chunk of discounts out of them via the Ditch-The-Dish program (if they still have it). I think I got something like $25/mo off for 16 months. This was almost a year ago (when they were about to roll out the 6208...but I'm not bitter).

Originally posted by Llamas
Are you getting one of the satellite deals? When you switch to Comcast, you can usually extract a good chunk of discounts out of them via the Ditch-The-Dish program (if they still have it). I think I got something like $25/mo off for 16 months. This was almost a year ago (when they were about to roll out the 6208...but I'm not bitter).

My contract isn't up until February. At that point I will be taking advantage of the $400 credit deal.

Originally posted by John Welch
Anyone from the Everett-Lynnwood area had any success at signing up for an install next week? Wondering if I should call now or wait till Monday.

I am not far away in Bothell and got an appointment set up for friday (the 19th). I would have done it earlier but will be in Mexico;)

I also got the installation charges waived.

I went to the North Seattle Comcast office to check out the demo unit they have on display(which is pretty cool by the way). I had asked the CSR there if I would be able to come in and exchange my current unit for the new DVR unit and they said yes. Can someone confirm this? It seems the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing i.e. the telephone reps versus the in person reps.

Originally posted by buddma
I went to the North Seattle Comcast office to check out the demo unit they have on display(which is pretty cool by the way). I had asked the CSR there if I would be able to come in and exchange my current unit for the new DVR unit and they said yes. Can someone confirm this? It seems the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing i.e. the telephone reps versus the in person reps.

You will be able to exchange them at the store. How many they have and if they will run out is another question.

I've been a Dish user for a few years but I'm going back to cable next week. I've had lousy luck in Kenmore with my OTA. I want to watch Hi Def without freezing and those pesky no signal messages. The woman I spoke to at Comcast was very knowledgeable and sounded excited about the Microsoft deal. They are taking my Dish equipment away and crediting my account. I never thought I would go back to cable, but after the Dish 921 glitches and initial high price, I am giving them a try. I'm hooking up to a Samsung DLP HP567. I'll let you know how things look next week. Greetings from beautiful Kenmore, WA!!!

Originally posted by John Welch
Anyone from the Everett-Lynnwood area had any success at signing up for an install next week? Wondering if I should call now or wait till Monday.

No problem at all in Lake Stevens.
I get my 6412 Monday morning between 8-Noon !!!
Combined with my Ditch-the-little-dish offer till July and no easy HD reception, I'm really pleased. I have a 45' ridge and would need at least a 25' tower for the locals. :D
Now about KIRO-HD... Come on COX!

Originally posted by Al Shing
I'm scheduled for Monday morning, between 8AM-12PM.

They quoted me a $15 something installation charge and $4.95 extra a month.

I live In everett and have an appointment for tues. 8-noon

what time do comcast offices close? (north seattle)?

I thought the same thing, but switched about a year ago and I'm mostly happy. I'm a little torched we still don’t have HD CBS however, which was “any day now” a year ago. It’s the only reason I still have the DirecTV receiver and an ugly antenna on the roof. I’ve probably lost half the money I could have gotten a year ago for the equipment. I should probably just get rid of it, since I never turn on CBS even though I can. Anyway, I think you’ll like cable. It’s not completely horrible like it was four years ago. :)

Originally posted by mike west
I've been a Dish user for a few years but I'm going back to cable next week. I've had lousy luck in Kenmore with my OTA. I want to watch Hi Def without freezing and those pesky no signal messages. The woman I spoke to at Comcast was very knowledgeable and sounded excited about the Microsoft deal. They are taking my Dish equipment away and crediting my account. I never thought I would go back to cable, but after the Dish 921 glitches and initial high price, I am giving them a try. I'm hooking up to a Samsung DLP HP567. I'll let you know how things look next week. Greetings from beautiful Kenmore, WA!!!

Center Name: Comcast Cable Store - Seattle

Billing Payment Center Address: 1140 No 94th St, Seattle, WA 98103

Phone Number: 877-824-2288

Hours of Operation: Monday thru Friday 8:00am to 7:00pm, Saturday 9:00am to 5:00pm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Are we supposed to be getting a new remote with the 6412? I'd read somewhere that they weren't available yet. Mine is way past its pull date -- AT&T 200C.

For what it's worth (perhaps 2 cents) I called back and got an appointment for Monday between 2 and 6 PM. Perhaps it's beacuse the second call I made was duing business hours. Good thing is, the 6412s are available as far South as lakewood! :)

I have install scheduled for Nov 22.. they told me they had availability as early as Nov 15 when i was on the phone yesterday. Only reason I didn't take an earlier appointment was because I"m headed out of town for a week.

other good news is that they give you a 2 hour time window now instead of the 4-6 hour times windows they used to give.

Originally posted by IssaquahHD
You will be able to exchange them at the store. How many they have and if they will run out is another question.
There are about 18,500 DVR's available for the market; and nearly a million subscribers. That's why this is a soft launch with no advertisement.

Originally posted by bobby_t1
other good news is that they give you a 2 hour time window now instead of the 4-6 hour times windows they used to give.

Possibly due to the fact that swapping out boxes doesn't take as long as a new install. Easier to predict.

Originally posted by brvheart
There are about 18,500 DVR's available for the market; and nearly a million subscribers. That's why this is a soft launch with no advertisement.

Any idea when there will be another batch? I would think that first bunch will be gone pretty quick.

Originally posted by brvheart
I don't know who told you that, but you CANNOT record the music only channels. I've got a 6412 in my living room.

ok... sorry for passing on bad information... I don't have one so you're obviously more "in-the-know". I was basing that claim off a direct quote from the product training: Digital Music Channels can be recorded, but FF, REW and Pause cannot be used when playing them back.

Originally posted by brvheart
There are about 18,500 DVR's available for the market; and nearly a million subscribers. That's why this is a soft launch with no advertisement.

If I recall correctly, initial reports were 60,000 units, then 30,000 units and now 18,500 units.

Is anyone else having MAJOR issues with Comcast and HDTV service this evening like I am in Puyallup??

TRYING to watch SAVING PRIVATE RYAN right now and it's impossible to do so with all the cut-outs (both audio and video)!!!!!

Highly dissapointed!

Anyone else?

This is the first time I have seen it this bad - and of course it's now that I want to watch something :(

Originally posted by mbunting
Is anyone else having MAJOR issues with Comcast and HDTV service this evening like I am in Puyallup??

TRYING to watch SAVING PRIVATE RYAN right now and it's impossible to do so with all the cut-outs (both audio and video)!!!!!

Highly dissapointed!

Anyone else?

This is the first time I have seen it this bad - and of course it's now that I want to watch something :(
Same problem here. I'd just like to know if it's KOMO or Comcast. I've seen a lot of people complain about the audio dropout problem on KOMO all the time. It's been going on for months, but never this bad. I shut it off.

Well...at least I can have some comfort in knowing that it's just not only me experiencing these problems.


Ooooh, can't wait to get the new DVR so that I can record things like this :)

I've changed the channel as well down here. Can't put up with it any longer....

I believe tonight's problem is Comcast related. I was watching the NFL Game of the Week in HD (NFL Network) earlier tonight and it had issues as well (same cut-outs like I'm getting now in SPR on KOMO HD).

Someone on the OTA thread mentioned similar problems, so apparently it's KOMO. Makes sense, because I never have these types of problems with the other stations. Sometimes the picture breaks up, but on KOMO it's always an audio dropout first with big popping noises, and the picture is going blank for short times for Saving Private Ryan. Oh well, ABC didn't show it in OAR anyway.

Besides with you all the way down in Puyallup there is no way we'd have the same problem and have it be Comcast's fault.

It's bad OTA as well. At least this is one thing that can't be blamed on them. I'll be gettin the new DVR on the 15th and have a morning appt scheduled for new service. Looks like a cool piece of hardware.

Thx,
Vidkidd

Folks in Portland are reporting the same kinds of problems with Saving Private Ryan on KATU down there, so perhaps this is actually a network feed problem.

Originally posted by jeff28
ok... sorry for passing on bad information... I don't have one so you're obviously more "in-the-know". I was basing that claim off a direct quote from the product training:
You're right about the training manual. It does imply that you can record the music-only channels. But you can't. At least not at this time. But I doubt anyone will lose sleep over this issue. I just didn't expect anyone to cite the training manual...

I (meaning my wife) refuse to pay for the HD PVR until we get CBS in HD.

Oh well...

I have a 6412 delivery scheduled in Bremerton, Monday 2-4 PM

Guess I gotta clear my TIVO....

Originally posted by hinten
I (meaning my wife) refuse to pay for the HD PVR until we get CBS in HD.

Oh well...

If Comcast can find a way to get the Kiro deal done they will clearly be the choice when it comes to HD. On a monthly basis they are cheaper then the dish, no equipment to buy, and you don't have to deal with OTA locals. Hopefully they will realize this.

IssaquahHD,

How do you get that they're cheaper than the dish on a monthly basis when the minimum Comcast plan you can get and have the DVR is $62/mo (including the equipment rental)?

Surely DishN or DirecTV cost less monthly for DVR services.

It's not like I personally have a choice anyway... I would need to cut a little forest to get HD Satellite and I would need an antenna on a 150 ft pole to get OTA. :D

-eric

Originally posted by ericjut
IssaquahHD,

How do you get that they're cheaper than the dish on a monthly basis when the minimum Comcast plan you can get and have the DVR is $62/mo (including the equipment rental)?

Surely DishN or DirecTV cost less monthly for DVR services.

It's not like I personally have a choice anyway... I would need to cut a little forest to get HD Satellite and I would need an antenna on a 150 ft pole to get OTA. :D

-eric

My monthly bill for comcast is $27.99 for expanded basic, $7.99 for digital classic, $9.95 for DVR which totals $45.93/month. If I wanted a HD Tivo on Directv it would cost $42 for total choice with locals and $5 for Tivo for a total of $47. This doesn't even take into account the fact that you have to spend $1000 to buy the HD Tivo.

Well Comcast keep saying “any time now” for CBS, and most people probably believe them when they jump to cable. I know I did. Also their advertisement doesn’t say “all locals except CBS”, so unless you do some research you probably wouldn’t even notice it’s missing until you turn it on.

Ordered my dvr today. No swaps at the the comcast store allowed per two different reps.
they scheduled a 4 hour window. Bummer again.

Originally posted by mbunting
Is anyone else having MAJOR issues with Comcast and HDTV service this evening like I am in Puyallup??

TRYING to watch SAVING PRIVATE RYAN right now and it's impossible to do so with all the cut-outs (both audio and video)!!!!!

Highly dissapointed!

Anyone else?

This is the first time I have seen it this bad - and of course it's now that I want to watch something :(
ABC (and sometimes other networks) have had trouble with network feeds for a long time. It is rarely the fault of the local stations or cable co's. I still get all my digital via OTA but I RARELY watch any network movies because of the dropouts. I'm sticking with my Netflix subscription for the time being. 480p is just fine...

Convinced my wife. I was in the Comcast store in Redmond to get a new cable modem. They also told me that I cannot pick up the DVR there. So I made the appointment for Wednesday.

Anybody watching Harry Potter on KOMO right now?

I'm not getting dropouts, but the center channel is silent and all the voices come out in the rear! :(

Am I the only one experiencing this?

-eric

yep, but I'm going back to MIB...

Hi-
I'm in Redmond and just set up a MCE2005 box with a HDTV tuner. I have an attic antenna that was mounted by a previous owner. Anyhow, I get a strong signal for ABC, CBS, and FOX HD stations, but I get nothing for NBC (KING or KONG). I noticed from the FAQ that NBC has a different orientation for their directional broadcast... is this why I don't get them? Is it likely that if I play around with the antenna that I could conjure up NBC? Or, is the location of the broadcast tower different enough that just getting ABC/CBS does not imply NBC should be within my grasp?

Thanks for any insight!

Originally posted by PhileFriendly
Hi-
I'm in Redmond and just set up a MCE2005 box with a HDTV tuner. I have an attic antenna that was mounted by a previous owner. Anyhow, I get a strong signal for ABC, CBS, and FOX HD stations, but I get nothing for NBC (KING or KONG). I noticed from the FAQ that NBC has a different orientation for their directional broadcast... is this why I don't get them? Is it likely that if I play around with the antenna that I could conjure up NBC? Or, is the location of the broadcast tower different enough that just getting ABC/CBS does not imply NBC should be within my grasp?

Thanks for any insight!

You may want to post this question in the Seattle OTA forum, where some antenna and OTA reception gurus hang out:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4654659#post4654659

So who will be hanging out in front of the Comcast seattle office tomorrow morning with their old cable box in hand? I'll be there!

See yah there.

yeah...harry potter was unwatchable...dunno what they did to the audio track but all the sound was coming from my rear surrounds...no center, nearly unaudible fronts....

MIB was nice...


So..is it confirmed that the seattle office will allow "swapping" boxes?

If so...i'm in....

Rich

A Comcast rep at the Alderwood Mall stated that there will be less than 5000 for launch. More will be arriving in the next and a half or so.

Thx,
Vidkidd

The more of us customers who are there with cable box in hand talking about not wanting to pay a "plug and play" install fee... the better. The customer is always right, and the $50 + I give to Comcast every month makes me always right.

Originally posted by vidkidd
A Comcast rep at the Alderwood Mall stated that there will be less than 5000 for launch. More will be arriving in the next and a half or so.

Thx,
Vidkidd

Is that "next WEEK and a half", "next MONTH and a half", or "next YEAR and a half"?

Originally posted by vidkidd
A Comcast rep at the Alderwood Mall stated that there will be less than 5000 for launch. More will be arriving in the next and a half or so.

60,000, then 30,000, then 18,500, and now 5,000. At this rate the people who show up this morning will find out they only have a demo unit. :D

The demo unit is MINE! I called it first! Can you believe it has come to this?

My installation isn't until tommorow so i'm eagerly awaiting someones (hopefully good) report.

I picked it up at the North Seattle office.

I just handed in my 6200, waited a few minutes while they read the barcode and wispered togther, answered "no" when they asked me if I worked at Microsoft, and then received a large brown box from a huge stack in the back room.

Apparently they are surprised and amused that so many people are coming in for the exchange.

Good to hear. Let us know your thoughts once you get it up and running.


Originally posted by hoffert
I picked it up at the North Seattle office.

I just handed in my 6200, waited a few minutes while they read the barcode and wispered togther, answered "no" when they asked me if I worked at Microsoft, and then received a large brown box from a huge stack in the back room.

Apparently they are surprised and amused that so many people are coming in for the exchange.

They do have them at the Redmond Store but I guess they are only for Microsoft employees. When asked for my MS ID, I just said I didn't have it on me. There were about 30 people in line when I was there.

I too, just picked up my 6412 at the 94th street office. The reason for a truck roll to install the unit is to avoid support problems. The told me that they wanted to make sure customers got a complete demo & walkthrough from the technician.

I fibbed and said that I had a Tivo and knew how to work with a DVR and they let me exchange over the counter.

MS employees were able to get the 6412 early as part of a late field test or something.

I got my 6412 from the Seattle office. It's nice! I really like the ability to remove channels I never watch (QVC) from the listings. The box comes with the software on it, but it has to download the listings data. So I wait...

In retrospect, I'm glad I set up the appointment. They brought it at 8:30AM, and there was an initial setup problem with the account that had to be fixed before the box would tune digital channels. It was all up and running before the tech left the house. He did some user training, but it is all pretty self explanatory.

Beats waiting in line behind 30 people for sure.

Im up and running as well. Over all it's a let down in comparison to the old Dish/MS Dishplayer, and DTV Tivo. Image quality on Comcast is also run at a higher level of compression compared to Dish/DTV - another let down.

I'll have some more time to check it out after work. Perhaps the guide data will be down by then. I've been spoiled by Satellite guide systems and this one is a cmplete joke. I don't want to loose a huge chunk of my screen to adverts...

Thx,
Vidkidd

If anyone figures out how to get the on screen menu/guide to display at a 16:9 ratio, can you let me know? And I don't mean setting it to 4:3 and then stretching it on my TV... :)

Thanks Folks!

I have followed this thread (sillently) for over a year. We finally took the plunge this weekend and are switching to HD (w/ Comcast).

I'm sure I will miss my Replay TV (sniff sniff), but alas, its time to move on...

Hopefully by the middle of next week, it will all be installed and working.

I will let you know if I have problems.

Again, thanks for letting me watch and learn....

i just setup an appointment for this friday from noon to 4 for my 6412.

i hope that dispatch calls me if they don't have stock. i'll be pissed if i take a half day off from work and they show up with a 6208 or nothing.

does anybody know some way i can confirm i'm going to get one? the lady on the phone had no clue. she just said that if they don't have them, someone should be calling me to rescedule.

Originally posted by billymac
i just setup an appointment for this friday from noon to 4 for my 6412.

i hope that dispatch calls me if they don't have stock. i'll be pissed if i take a half day off from work and they show up with a 6208 or nothing.

does anybody know some way i can confirm i'm going to get one? the lady on the phone had no clue. she just said that if they don't have them, someone should be calling me to rescedule.

The 6208 was never released in Seattle so it will be the 6412 or nothing. If you have an appointment I wouldn't worry about them being in stock. I can't imagine they will continue to make appoitments if they run out, then again this is Comcast and anything is possible.

I wanted to let everyone know that you can go to the cable store in Seattle's North end and pick up the new 6412's! I got two of them. Also they are just $4.95 each not the first for $4.95 and the second for $9.95 I was told by a phone rep-who also told me they would not be available at the cable store.

Got Mine! Walked into the Redmond store and got in a line of about 3 people. 6-8 CSR's were working behind the counter. Enjoyed a Krispy Kreme and free latte while in line. Walked up to the CSR - carrying my old box - and she took it and said "are you Robert?", I said "yes", she said "do you work for Microsoft?", I said "no", she said "here you go, enjoy. NEXT".

That was it. I overheard another guy ask if they had enough machines and the CSR said they "had a ton of them". Another guy said "can I get two?" and the CSR said "you can have as many as you want".

Total time: 5 minutes.

Originally posted by rverginia
Got Mine! Walked into the Redmond store and got in a line of about 3 people. 6-8 CSR's were working behind the counter. Enjoyed a Krispy Kreme and free latte while in line. Walked up to the CSR - carrying my old box - and she took it and said "are you Robert?", I said "yes", she said "do you work for Microsoft?", I said "no", she said "here you go, enjoy. NEXT".

That was it. I overheard another guy ask if they had enough machines and the CSR said they "had a ton of them". Another guy said "can I get two?" and the CSR said "you can have as many as you want".

Total time: 5 minutes.

What is the addy for the redmond office? I'm going to jet over there during lunch as well.

nevermind.. able to find it through a bit more searching.

14870 NE 95th St.
Redmond, WA 98052
Monday - Saturday 9AM-6PM

Heading nortbound on Willows Road, go to NE 95th and turn right. Go to the 3rd driveway on the left and drive between the buildings. You can't miss it. It say's COMCAST in big letters.

Yup, same here. Glad I didn't schedule an appointment. :) Wish I wasn't stuck at work now.

Originally posted by rverginia
Got Mine! Walked into the Redmond store and got in a line of about 3 people. 6-8 CSR's were working behind the counter. Enjoyed a Krispy Kreme and free latte while in line. Walked up to the CSR - carrying my old box - and she took it and said "are you Robert?", I said "yes", she said "do you work for Microsoft?", I said "no", she said "here you go, enjoy. NEXT".

That was it. I overheard another guy ask if they had enough machines and the CSR said they "had a ton of them". Another guy said "can I get two?" and the CSR said "you can have as many as you want".

Total time: 5 minutes.

Originally posted by rverginia
Heading nortbound on Willows Road, go to NE 95th and turn right. Go to the 3rd driveway on the left and drive between the buildings. You can't miss it. It say's COMCAST in big letters.

Cool thanks :)

I went to the Comcast Redmond office to pick up the new 6412, but they won't give it to me :(

Here is my scenario: I currently have the limited cable and a classical digital package, but not the basic cable. When they tried to add the new box to my account, they got an error "primary service required". They explained to me that because I do not have basic cable, they are unable to add PVR to my account. Has anyone had a similar problem? Is it technically impossible to use PVR without basic cable or it is just the Comcast policy?

phil

Originally posted by nwphil
I went to the Comcast Redmond office to pick up the new 6412, but they won't give it to me :(

Here is my scenario: I currently have the limited cable and a classical digital package, but not the basic cable. When they tried to add the new box to my account, they got an error "primary service required". They explained to me that because I do not have basic cable, they are unable to add PVR to my account. Has anyone had a similar problem? Is it technically impossible to use PVR without basic cable or it is just the Comcast policy?

phil

I think they just want to give out the expensive boxes to people paying higher monthly amounts.

Hmmm... maybe I should try going by the redmond office tomorrow. Anyone know what hours they are running?

Originally posted by Tom_Oliver
Yup, same here. Glad I didn't schedule an appointment. :) Wish I wasn't stuck at work now.

I had an appointment for Tuesday but picked up my box today anyway. I bet others did this as well freeing up appointment times in the next few days.

Originally posted by jsmbluecar
Hmmm... maybe I should try going by the redmond office tomorrow. Anyone know what hours they are running?

The answer is a few posts above. 9am-6pm

I went home at lunch and hooked mine up. Took all of 1 minute. :) The guide came up within 5 minutes although I'm not sure how extensive it was. And now I'm stuck back at work... :( I feel like a little boy at christmas.

Is this a guy thing, or what. There were no women in there trading in boxes. I guess my wife is right - Women are 'digitally impaired".

Can't wait to get home and hook mine up too!

Got mine! No hassles in the redmond office.

I got off work early today and checked this thread......good thing because I found out I could pick my 6412 at the seattle office.

I walked in with my 6200 and walked out with 2 DVRs. Plus I canceled my 30$
appointment I had for tomorrow.


FYI: They do not have the new DVR remotes at the seattle office.

Just the silver ondemand remote.....which sucks because there is no live tv button.

Originally posted by rverginia
Is this a guy thing, or what. There were no women in there trading in boxes. I guess my wife is right - Women are 'digitally impaired".

My wife was very skeptical when I bought the DTivo. When I bought it her line was: "Okay, you can get that, but I'm going to get . . .." If I took it away from her now, however, I'd better replace it with something better. And BTW, back when I thought this Comcast box would only be $4.95 more per month, she was not in favor of getting it instead of the DTivo. Apparently it needs to be better and proven technology. ;)

The Olympia office will not exchange boxes. I tried, and they told me I needed a service call.

Originally posted by Steve Goff
The Olympia office will not exchange boxes. I tried, and they told me I needed a service call.
Same with the Federal Way office. They were actively directing people to the Redmond or Seattle stores, though.

OK,

I have my DVR now (still waiting for the program guide to download). However, the installing Tech had never installed one and had no idea how it works, and no documentation or user guides. So far just me trying buttons, it apears to work alot like my TIVO.

Anyone know where I can find the Microsoft guide that this box is using????

dave, I refer you to the thread that discusses the MS Guide: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467203&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

The first post is a sort of informal faq with some links, and the discussion is on usability and technical issues such as you are asking.

Long time watcher, first time poster here...
Got cable installed at my new house last Wednesday, and the cable guy said the 6412 doesn't have digital coaxial audio in..can anybody confirm or deny that for me please so I know if I need to an optical cable?

Oh, and he also said I could exchange my box at the Comcast office in Auburn (I live in Covington) but as far as I can tell there isn't one..anybody know of one?

Thanks :)

Originally posted by Binaural
Got cable installed at my new house last Wednesday, and the cable guy said the 6412 doesn't have digital coaxial audio in..can anybody confirm or deny that for me please so I know if I need to an optical cable?

Oh, and he also said I could exchange my box at the Comcast office in Auburn (I live in Covington) but as far as I can tell there isn't one..anybody know of one?

1) Think you mean digital audio out, rather than digital audio in. If so, according to the picture on Motorola's site, the 6412 has both coaxial digital and optical digital outputs.

2) 4020 Auburn Way N

Display VIA firwewire on my GWIII XBR950 works flawlessly. No interface though, and there is no upconversion of any video from it's original source format when it displayed over this interface.

Thx,
Vidkidd

Had an appointment for 2-6pm today (CSR said I could not pick up the box, I live in Lakewood, bad CSR?) and the guy showed up at 2:08! I told him he was late. ;) Anyway, in comes the new box. Rather than let the tech hook it up and mess up my setup I had it up and running in less than 2 minutes. The install was flawless!

First impressions:

Overall, the unit is light years beyond the old 6200. The guide is usable, the setup intuitive (except for how to get to the initial setup screen), the menus are easy to follow if somewhat cumbersome (hard to do a really good interface with limited display real estate). I found it very easy to set up recordings, eliminate unwanted channels, change channels, etc.

I tried recording 2 HD channels at the same time. Not an extensive test but I had 663 and 664 recording for 5 minutes at the same time. Note: Since it's dual tuner, if you record 2 at once you're stuck watching one of them. Both shows recorded and played back flawlessly, no glitches, none.

Downsides:

Can't get PIP to work. Anyone know how?

Only 15 minute pause on HD material. Better than 0 with the 6200.

UI slows down when recording, need to play with this more to see how bad this really is. So far just a minor annoyance.

Wishes:

Internet connection for downloading to PCs (I'll even succumb to 5C protection for this feature).

Internet control of device (similar to replayTV).

Discrete on/off codes.

Is anyone else getting the announcers through the rear left speaker on MNF?

Yes. They are in the left rear for me too.

I'm getting the 6412 on Wednesday, and I'ne just 1-2 Q's

1. I've got the Sanyo Z1 pj. If there are any Z1 owners out there who are getting HD thru Comcast, could you PM me? That way if I run into any problems I can PM back, and keep the thread a little less cluttered. (There is also the possibility I could help you with a problem, but I gotta be honest- don't hold your breath).

2. The Z1 does not have a DVI input, but it does have RGB (in adition to component.) Is there such a thing as a DVI to RGB converter, and where could i get one? Or would I be better off looking at a component input switcher (it's for my DVD player).

Much obliged in advance.

Originally posted by livetoflyfish
Is anyone else getting the announcers through the rear left speaker on MNF?

Same problem on OTA reception. Not a Comcast issue.

yep, I just love the new ABC Dolby Digital 0.003 audio. I switched my STB over to PCM mode so I can let my receiver figure out how to spread the channels around a little better using CScinema mode. Even 6-chan mono is better than DD0.003.

My good ol' 6200 wasn't that great but the normal SD channels were totally watchable, now with the new 6208 everything under 100 looks horrible (I tried both DVI and Component) Channels Over 100 look better but still not the same as the 6200 .... High Def channels are displaying just fine ... Anyone with similar issues? I get this reddish horrible PQ.


Also I forgot to mention that my daughter was watching Oobie on demand on the downstairs receiver (6200) when I tried to watch some On Demand stuff on the new 6412 upstairs no matter what I chose I got exactly what my daughter was watching downstairs.


Thanks,

SS

I picked up my 6412 in Redmond this morning. I found this info very usefull.

• How do I configure the HDTV video outputs?
While the box is turned off, but still plugged in, press the menu key on the remote or front panel to select your TV Type, YPbPr/DVI output mode and scaling (4:3 override). Most HDTV users with HDTV capable 16:9 TV sets will want to set their box for 16:9 TV type, 1080i output and 4:3 override off (to avoid re-syncing between HD and SD channels)

Like most of you my was up and running pretty quickly. I spent more time removing my Tivo and old box.

However it wasn't as sharp as I expected. Checking the settings my box was set to 4:3 and 540 input. Changing those settings made a huge difference in picture quality.;)

I also found setting the 4:3 overide to stretch gave a better result (I don't like the grey bars). Interestingly the aspect ratio controls on my Hitachi widescreen are non-functional in this mode.

One note if the box is recording you can't get into menu even if the unit is turned off.

Minor correction to above- you cannot get to the box's Motorola menus (to set video output/diagnostics) when it is recording.

Here's the thread where we get into a lot of the questions in greater detail:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467203&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Wow!.. this PVR is awesome! I'm not sure how i lived w/o one of these things for so long.. :).

I do this as well. I think it looks way better. If I could set my TV to black bars I suppose I would, but it's not an option.

Anyone else think the digital (non HDTV) channels look way better?

Also I set the audio compression to off. Is that bad?

Originally posted by mickdw
I also found setting the 4:3 overide to stretch gave a better result (I don't like the grey bars). Interestingly the aspect ratio controls on my Hitachi widescreen are non-functional in this mode.

Did I get the wrong remote? It doesn't have the "My DVR button"...etc. or pip buttons. I got it at the 94th seattle office.

Couple questions:

Why isn't there any info and I can't go past 4-5 hours in the guide? How do you ever record anything the next day then?

I am an NBA pack subscriber and can't see what games on what channels are coming up the next day anymore. You used to be able to turn on a 441-448 and they all displayed the next days lineup. That's how I'd know what channel to record. MAJOR. How do I record my team tommorow????

Bit noisy. I can hear it working 12 feet away quite clearly. Even when not recording.

It reset the older box in the bedroom and it won't display info now. I'lll see in the morning.

Decided to ditch work for 30 minutes this morning and run to the 94th St. Seattle office, that was painless. Walked in, was only person there, walked out about 3 minutes later w/ my new box and remote (btw I think they have new remotes in (the right ones), it has all the buttons people have been saying their remote was missing (live TV, My DVR, etc).

Now I have to sit at work all day wishing I could go home and hook it up :(

well, i'm heading up there today...good to hear from binaural that they still have boxes at the seattle office (and the new remotes?).

Cheers,

rich

Originally posted by biz_qwik
Did I get the wrong remote? It doesn't have the "My DVR button"...etc. or pip buttons. I got it at the 94th seattle office. [/q]

mine is silver and does have the 'my dvr' button towards the top in the vcr-like control area. so if yours isn't like this, then you most likely did get the wrong remote. somewhere someone had posted a picture of the old & new ones - I'll try to find it...

[q]Couple questions:

Why isn't there any info and I can't go past 4-5 hours in the guide? How do you ever record anything the next day then?



it takes a while. after 1 hour, I had 2 days. after 3 hours, I had 12 days (or so).

also, you CAN do a manual record and do just a given channel at a given time. although, not sure if you can do this before the channel guide gets propagated (takes less time for this). just press the 'my dvr' button your remote... :D

Got our new 6412 yesterday morning. So far -- pretty great. A thousand percent better than I expected (after the awful tan guide). My wife is still not convinced that it is better than Tivo -- but the HD looks nice and makes it worth the switch.

Any idea when CBS in HD will be added in Seattle?

Originally posted by biz_qwik

It reset the older box in the bedroom and it won't display info now. I'lll see in the morning.

After reading this, I went up and tested mine, and the old DCT-2000 won't respond with any of the old tan guide graphics. Actually, I had to power cycle it to get it to do anything at all. Something about the upgrade has turned the old box to a vegetable.

Can anyone else confirm this is happening on their old box?

I checked again this morning and the old box is now working perfectly. Full guide and all.

I looked and the 6412 does have much more info ahead as I gathered this was the deal.

Being only able to see 6 channels per page instead of 10 is way slower. We'll see after taking out the trash channels.

My HUUUUUGE problem is with the NBA package. Some of you may not care but this is my main tv viewing. channel 441 was changed to be stats central showing box scores this year and the other channel of the pack when not showing games had a schedule with times and channels for the next day. These are BOTH not accesable on the new guide and I have no way of seeing times or selecting games to record. It only says this pay-per-view program has expired. Any one else care or have a solution?

Originally posted by IssaquahHD
My monthly bill for comcast is $27.99 for expanded basic, $7.99 for digital classic, $9.95 for DVR which totals $45.93/month. If I wanted a HD Tivo on Directv it would cost $42 for total choice with locals and $5 for Tivo for a total of $47. This doesn't even take into account the fact that you have to spend $1000 to buy the HD Tivo.

Are you really paying only $27.99 for your whole analog package? I looked for Issaquah on the Comcast website and the expanded + limited is priced at $39.99, just like in Woodinville.

But, I get your point about the hardware. I have to say it's nice to be able to rent it. :)

-eric

I have limited cable and the hi-def box for $13.10 + $6.75 = $19.85 per month. I was just told that I would need to upgrade to the basic cable for $39.99 per month plus pay $10 per month for the 6412. The rep told me that I had to get the basic cable in order for the DVR to work, which makes no sense because my hi def box currently works fine with limited cable and gives me the digital guide and on demand options (not to mention that the only difference between limited and basic is the little filter they put on your line!) It seems that they are just holding out on people in order to make more for the boxes. I'd be interested to hear about anyone with limited cable succeeding in getting a 6412.

Marcus

Originally posted by ericjut
Are you really paying only $27.99 for your whole analog package? I looked for Issaquah on the Comcast website and the expanded + limited is priced at $39.99, just like in Woodinville.

But, I get your point about the hardware. I have to say it's nice to be able to rent it. :)

-eric

Yes I only pay $27.99 for my analog package. The website must be wrong because the rate guide I got with my bill and the CSR when I ordered the 6412 told me it was $27.99. It sounds like Issaquah is a lot cheaper then the rest of the area for some reason. Originally when I called to order the 6412 the CSR said it would be a minimum of $60 for analog, digital, and the 6412 but then she said, "oh you live in Issaquah, it is cheaper there". Not sure why.

Originally posted by mbyers23
I have limited cable and the hi-def box for $13.10 + $6.75 = $19.85 per month. I was just told that I would need to upgrade to the basic cable for $39.99 per month plus pay $10 per month for the 6412. The rep told me that I had to get the basic cable in order for the DVR to work, which makes no sense because my hi def box currently works fine with limited cable and gives me the digital guide and on demand options (not to mention that the only difference between limited and basic is the little filter they put on your line!) It seems that they are just holding out on people in order to make more for the boxes. I'd be interested to hear about anyone with limited cable succeeding in getting a 6412.

Marcus

I would be surprised if anyone is able to get a 6412 with limited cable. I'm sure the money they spend on these boxes is worked into the digital cable package price.

Originally posted by Salvattore
My good ol' 6200 wasn't that great but the normal SD channels were totally watchable, now with the new 6208 everything under 100 looks horrible (I tried both DVI and Component) Channels Over 100 look better but still not the same as the 6200 .... High Def channels are displaying just fine ... Anyone with similar issues? I get this reddish horrible PQ.

I don't have a 6412 myself yet, but I have had some concerns over exactly what you are describing. I'm guessing that the box has the equivalent of a two-way splitter built in to enable the dual tuners. If so, this would seem to be a potential source of picture problems if you already have a weak/borderline signal. I'm also guessing that this may be one of the reasons that they encourage a technician visit (to check the signal strength when installing the 6412). Hopefully, I'm either wrong about the built in splitter aspect, or that this won't be a big issue with the majority of installs. It will be interesting to see if others report similar issues to what you are experiencing.

Well I just called comcast and they said I couldn't pick up a new box at my local service center (94th street)... so they made me set up an appointment and didn't have one till Sunday, doh! I think when I get home from work I will try and call and see if they have any boxes there since people here seem to be able to pick up boxes at 94th street center. Hopefully they have some left, I don't want to wait until Sunday :).

Originally posted by IssaquahHD
Yes I only pay $27.99 for my analog package. The website must be wrong because the rate guide I got with my bill and the CSR when I ordered the 6412 told me it was $27.99. It sounds like Issaquah is a lot cheaper then the rest of the area for some reason. Originally when I called to order the 6412 the CSR said it would be a minimum of $60 for analog, digital, and the 6412 but then she said, "oh you live in Issaquah, it is cheaper there". Not sure why.

I recall that a few years ago Issaquah had a contract squabble with AT&T, and since they had negotiated a special deal this may be residual fallout from that contract.

Slev,

I JUST got back from the seattle office (94th Street) and YES they are giving them out still today. There were 2-3 other peeps there doing just what I was doing...walk-in exchanges. No questions asked, they just scan the old box, scan the new one, make you sign something and hand you the new goods. This office DOES have the new remotes...

Now I need to decide if I want to replace my other box with a 6412 (it's an older 2000 box)

Cheers,

Rich

Newbie mistake! I posted this as a new thread instead of a reply...let me try again, I just hooked up my 6412 stb and I noticed that in the menu if I have 4:3 override on 480i, my lower channels ( 2 thru 99) have much higher PQ. Does anyone agree or know why this is? I have a Hit 57SWX20B with component cables. Last question...can or should I use DVI on the 6412? Will it make a noticeable difference on PQ?
Thanks

Walked into the Redmond office this morning around 9:30 with my old STB and within 3 minutes was walking out with a new 6412 under my arm. Very simple exchange. They have the 6412s sitting near the front desk and it looked like they had about 20 of them. They might have more in the back. They had a box full of the "correct" new remotes also.

Darryl

What do the "correct" remotes look like? I now have two 2000s with the old, black remote, and a 6100 with a silver remote.

Is this it?
http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/images/drc800_remote.jpg

mine's in the car but looks like that, 'cept silver, i think.

That's not the remote I have. It is similar, but different in a number of ways. Mine has a "My DVR" button and area, with the play, stop, FF, REW, etc. There is a little line that goes around that. Also, the directional area is raised, I believe, and has "EXIT" and "LAST" buttons. It also says COMCAST on it.

This is not the remote... similar, but not the same. I would say the Comcast remote is much more geared towards the MS software functionality (?) and has the button layout in a slightly preferable arrangement. My $0.02.

Was still able to exchange my 6200 for a 6412 at the Redmond service center at 1:30 this afternoon. No questions, easy as could be. Even got the correct remote - the big silver one with the white "MyDVR" button in the top center. Now downloading the program guide.

And yes, they even had some Krispy Kreme donuts left ... mmmmmmm....

Please, somebody tell me the PVR has a 'skip ahead' button. I know it won't have a 'skip commercial' button as my old Replay but at least it should be able to skip in 2 minute increments.
My appointement is tomorrow morning. The guy that came out the last time was working for a Comcast contractor not Comcast itself. He was awful, had no clue. I am worried now since only my wife will be there and they have to take my set-up appart.

Oh, and one more question. Does the new box mean that VOD in HD is available?

Swapped my 6200 for the 6412 today at 9:20am in Redmond and it was indeed painless. They asked if I was an MS Employee (I am) so I showed em my badge, but in all of two minutes had the new machine (in the box) and the proper remote. The fellow manning the desk also noted that it was Viacom that is the main problem behind no KIRO HD on Comcast when I noted I hoped COX and Comcast could work it out. *shrug*

Am recording two HD shows right now (INHD1 and INHD2) to see how it works. Will be nice to get Lost in HD instead of SD now (I normally grab it from TiVo and watch Smallville live) as well as being able to go to bed at 10pm and DVR Law and Order in HD. :)

As for SD picture quality, it looks about the same as it did under the 6200. Maybe slightly better. My Toshiba's tuner still looks best. I am using a four-way Regal spiltter to feed the signal to the 6412, TiVo, a Phillips DVD-R, and the TV.

Before, I had a two-way regal with one into TiVo then one into the four-way Regal and then 6200/DVD-R/TV.

Originally posted by hinten
Please, somebody tell me the PVR has a 'skip ahead' button. I know it won't have a 'skip commercial' button as my old Replay but at least it should be able to skip in 2 minute increments.... Nope. Just FF and REW. You can press these buttons multiple times to cycle between different speeds, eg 2x, 4x, 8x, etc.
Oh, and one more question. Does the new box mean that VOD in HD is available?VOD-HD has been available for months, on the old HD boxes. Unfortunately it's been mostly limited to over-priced IMAX features.

One nice feature of the 6412 - notably missing from ReplayTV - is the ability to record what's in the buffer. Or at least the manual claims you can do this:Q: If I'm watching a program in progress and want to record it, can I record it from the beginning?

A: Yes. As long as you were tuned to the program when it began and have the entire program in the buffer. DVR saves the portion in the buffer, plus the remainder of the program.I'm testing this now - we'll see if it works as advertised.

Originally posted by jimre
Nope. Just FF and REW. You can press these buttons multiple times to cycle between different speeds, eg 2x, 4x, 8x, etc. There's also an Instant Replay button, but no Skip Forward as far as I can tell...

Thanks, that is similar to the remote that came with my 6200, but I don't think the old one has the On-Demand button.

Originally posted by hinten
Please, somebody tell me the PVR has a 'skip ahead' button. I know it won't have a 'skip commercial' button as my old Replay but at least it should be able to skip in 2 minute increments.

I have a DTivo, that only fast forwards at different speeds, and a MyHD card which will skip ahead whatever period of time I set it up to skip, but won't fast forward. I much prefer the fast forward (although there are Tivo owners that prefer the skip and set it up as such).

With the varied fall back, so that it backtracks to start playing before the point in time that you hit play, you can hit the beginning of the program with just a bit of practice. And you get to see what you're fast forwarding through, just in case you might want to see something in a commerical period. Hopefully the Comcast box has that fall back feature (my Sony PS-DVD player does).

Originally posted by brente
thanks to miatism, here's the picture of the remotes - new one is on the left...

http://cjhengineering.com/hdtv/cablehdtv/IM008262.JPG

(here's the root page: http://cjhengineering.com/hdtv/cablehdtv/dctremote.htm ) Actually, that still isn't the newest remote for the 6412 DVR. Doesn't have the row of DVR-specific buttons:
[Instant Replay] [My DVR] [LIVE]
or the PIP buttons on the bottom (although those aren't yet functional on the 6412). Attached is a picture of the newest remote.

thx jim - you're right. I didn't look at the pic too close (obviously) - I deleted my worthless post :p

Thanks, jimre, I'll now be able to make sure that they give me the correct remotes.

Originally posted by hinten
Please, somebody tell me the PVR has a 'skip ahead' button. I know it won't have a 'skip commercial' button as my old Replay but at least it should be able to skip in 2 minute increments.
My appointement is tomorrow morning. The guy that came out the last time was working for a Comcast contractor not Comcast itself. He was awful, had no clue. I am worried now since only my wife will be there and they have to take my set-up appart.

Thats exactly why I im glad I didnt have to work yesterday. I canceled my appointment and went to the seattle office and got mine in person. I dont want some comcast installer messing up any of my HT gear.

I won’t even let them touch my stuff, although I will say the guy that came out to fix my internet connection was awesome. He was probably too good and found another job by now. :)

just went to the Seattle office on 94th and swapped my Moto in 2 mins..yee haa

I’m an Atlanta Comcast user, and started monitoring your board to hear about the 6412s and more importantly the MS software. Please post your opinion of the MS guide as I truly hate the TV guide software and am anxiously waiting for Comcast to approve another software package for the whole country.

Also, I saw a couple of posts I wanted to respond to. First, a few pages back someone mentioned the load noise of the 6412. We have the 6208 here and if you get the boxes too close to a heat source all the fans kick in to high speed mode causing a loud whine. In my case, I had the STB on top of my AV Receiver, and after about 20 minutes, the fans would kick on high. I buffered the STB with the DVD player and now I rarely hear the fans even reach low speed.

As for the Fast Forward vs. 30 second skip, I think the industry is going toward the multi speed fast forward. The issue is advertising dollars vs. convenience. Though skipping commercials is great in the short run, we will eventually pay as advertising dollars either fall away or worse yet, end up in our shows. I just hope someone adds a feature that runs 30 seconds in 3x FF so that we can breeze through the commercials in a more efficient way but still allows the advertisers to plan the commercials in a way that the audience will see their product names and such.

A little tip for anyone that has a 6412 in their bedroom or anywhere you want to try to sleep:

To keep the HD from making access noise every few seconds, tune it to a music channel before you turn it off. As you know you can't record the music channels so it will not buffer the data= no HD access noise.

You will still hear the HD spinning though. But I couldn't notice it while in bed(5 feet from box)






:)

Originally posted by Mauser
Newbie mistake! I posted this as a new thread instead of a reply...let me try again, I just hooked up my 6412 stb and I noticed that in the menu if I have 4:3 override on 480i, my lower channels ( 2 thru 99) have much higher PQ. Does anyone agree or know why this is? I have a Hit 57SWX20B with component cables. Last question...can or should I use DVI on the 6412? Will it make a noticeable difference on PQ?
Thanks

It means that the the scaler in the 6412 that converts the analog 480i signal to a HD format (720p or 1080i) isn't doing as good a job as the scaler in your TV.

I can't give you a definitive answer on using DVI, but from my reading, it usually provides at least a slightly better picture due to eliminating a couple of analog-digital conversions. DVI will also allow you to view HDCP protected content in the future in full resolution while component may not.

In general, I have to give kudos to the MS/Comcast team who developed this DVR for the HD cable customer. While it does take some getting used to, and sometimes behaves unexpectedly, it does implement most of the features I felt was important:

1) It starts recording one minute before the published program start time, and you can pad the start and ending times by a variable number of minutes.

2) You can manually set recording times and channels, although this is limited to 30 minute intervals. So if you wanted to record a 45 minute segment, you'll have to record an extra 15 minutes.

3) Two tuners are great, but you'll quickly run into the limiting factor - if you're recording two programs, you have to monitor one of them, or else watch something that's already recorded.

4) If you're recording a program with a secondary language track, it will record both, and you can dynamically switch between the language audio tracks.

Now, the missing features:

1) The reminder/timer feature - sometimes you just want to be reminded to watch something, or have the thing switch automatically. This may become more of a factor when the hard disk starts filling up. It's just something we got used to with the old guide and I miss it.

2) Analog PQ - it's well documented that the PQ is horrible and looks like it was processed by a slow software MPEG decoder.

3) Digital PQ - still depended on the processing done at Comcast's end. Some channels look like a million bucks, some still look like crap.

4) Fewer channels per screen, but you can switch into a mini-grid mode pretty easily.

The omission of the 30 second skip is likely dictated by the programming sources and won't ever be implemented. The variable FF can skip through an entire program before you can hit stop at the highest settings. Also, hitting the reverse button instantly throws it into reverse instead of backing off FF settings like some other software does. This will take some getting used to.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with what we got, and we know they are still enhancing it. I'm glad they waited for the two tuner version with the bigger hard disk. Hopefully, there will be an easy way to expand that hard disk space by purchasing some add-on equipment from Best Buy or Fry's.

Well, I don't think I will be tossing my TiVo, but the 6412 is most welcome for it's ability to record two HD channels at the same time. No more "Lost" in SD while I watch "Smallville" in HD and now I can go to sleep at 10 since I don't need to stay up to watch "Law and Order". It will also be nice to DVR the digital cable channels that my TiVo cannot catch.

But I find the TiVo interface - and especially the Season Pass Manager - to be more elegant and intuitive. No doubt MS will keep advancing the U.I., and in time I will probably become comfortable enough to use it more and more and, eventually, I expect it to supplant my TiVo.

All in all, I am quite pleased, and the price of having two DVR subscriptions is worth the flexability it offers me.

Originally posted by thesoze
just went to the Seattle office on 94th and swapped my Moto in 2 mins..yee haa

me too!
and HBO is $8 a month for a year...

Originally posted by jimre
One nice feature of the 6412 - notably missing from ReplayTV - is the ability to record what's in the buffer. Or at least the manual claims you can do this:I'm testing this now - we'll see if it works as advertised. Yep - seems to work. At least my simple test: watch 3-5 minutes of a show, THEN hit the record button. The resulting recording does indeed contain those first 3-5 minutes that were in the buffer. Nice - wish my ReplayTVs did this. I tested this with an analog channel, and with an HD channel.

For what its worth, I've managed to program in a ~30+ sec skip and a ~3min+ skip into a MX700. You should be able to do the same on other programmable remotes.

30sec skip.

FF
.2 sec wait
FF
3 sec wait
PLAY

3 min skip

FF
.2 sec wait
FF
.2 sec wait
FF
3 sec wait
PLAY

Enjoy!

Glad to hear real user feedback on our product (I was on the team that designed and developed it).

I'm getting into lots of the nitty gritty over on the thread in HDTV recorders - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467203

Originally posted by mbyers23
I have limited cable and the hi-def box for $13.10 + $6.75 = $19.85 per month. I was just told that I would need to upgrade to the basic cable for $39.99 per month plus pay $10 per month for the 6412. The rep told me that I had to get the basic cable in order for the DVR to work, which makes no sense because my hi def box currently works fine with limited cable and gives me the digital guide and on demand options (not to mention that the only difference between limited and basic is the little filter they put on your line!) It seems that they are just holding out on people in order to make more for the boxes. I'd be interested to hear about anyone with limited cable succeeding in getting a 6412.

Marcus

Those with limited cable instead of basic who want a 6412 without getting ganked this post is for you.

I only have limited cable (plus Digital Classic for INHD 1 & 2 and DiscoveryHD) and have been anxiously waiting for this new DVR for over a year (when we were all promised the 6208). When I called to get my 6412 I was also told by the CSR that it would not work without paying $39.99 for basic cable!?

I was pretty adamant that that was B.S. and it was not a technicality but a shady marketing policy discriminating against those who have chosen Comcast strictly for their digital HD signal. I mean if they want to make up their costs for this new box then charge more for the box already. It is un-acceptable to me that anybody should have to pay $26 extra on top of an extra $4.95 for the DVR STB for a bunch of analog channels they'll NEVER watch. The limited cable is necessary to just get the cable to your house. Fine. Whatever. The extra $4.95 on top of the existing $5.00 advanced STB seems reasonable too. No gripes there.

I asked to talk to somebody who could explain to me why basic cable was necessary or that I could complain to about this. After waiting a couple of minutes the CSR told me nobody was there that I could talk to but that he thought he could help me out. There exists what he called a basic cable code that he applied to my account effectively changing the status of my limited cable to basic cable for only $1.24 extra/mo. (from $13.75 to $14.99). So now for $6.19/mo. more than what I'm already paying ($32.94)I can get the 6412.

I forgot to clarify if this special code actually gave me the extra analog channels or just changed my bill. Honestly I couldn't care less. He said the code was only good for 1 year and was established to settle just such disputes from disgruntled customers as my self. My hope is that if enough people who are currently "limited cable" only customers complain about the need to pay so much more for basic cable to get the DVR Comcast will re-think this policy or that by this time next year they will not be so worried about offsetting the costs for all the new boxes and will again offer them for just the extra $4.95 to people who couldn't care less about the analog channels.

I encourage all with limited cable who want the 6412 to complain. IMO what Comcast is doing is not right. Keep calling until you get a CSR that will do something for you (a.k.a. - give you this code). Be polite but firm. I was never rude but let the CSR know how I honestly felt. He said he agreed with what I was saying and couldn't understand the policy. Whether that is true or not he was very sympathetic and courteous.

So give it a shot. This was my second attempt. The first was actually driving to the N. 94th St. Seattle office from Everett during rush hour traffic with my 5100 and being told I needed basic and nothing they could do for me except shell out the $$$. What a waste of 2 hours.

Brent

Brent,

Glad to hear you got it worked out at least. I didn't have Comcast when I called the other day (I cancelled maybe 6 months ago after getting tired of waiting for their DVR). I told them I wanted 2 of these boxes with just the local HD channels and INHD1 and 2. The total for the package was $26.98 and then another $19.90 for the 2 boxes. However, I'm giving them a DishNetwork receiver (and a dish if they want to take it down) and they will give me $25 off for 16 months. So, for a while my bill should be $21.88 plus taxes and things. They didn't say anything about needing any other packages and I guess I'll find out on Thursday when they come by if they try to renege on that. I may add Showtime or other things later as DIRECTV is compressing that one quite a bit.

--Darin

Nausicaa,

You echo my sentiments on the 6412 vs. Tivo almost exactly. The Tivo is elegantly simple... I could tell my mother-in-law to "just press Tivo-Tivo and choose what you want to watch." Granted, MSFT is pretty great ("just press My DVR") but the Tivo interface is a beautiful thing.

Like others, though, dual HD recording is priceless. Tonight we watched a recorded HBO-HD movie... most excellent. Overall, we're enjoying HD immensely with this new DVR.

1. It looks suspiciously like (from my online bill activity) the DVR service is an additional $9.95 -- leaving the $5.00/month charge for the HD box in place. My activity shows a charge of $6.63 for DVR service from 11/16 to 12/5 (20 days) with no adjustment for HD alone. We'll see how it shakes down, but it may affect the impulse of some to add extra DVR's.

2. I don't have anything like Tivo to compare it to, so for me this thing is just GREAT. Compared to what I had before, a 5100, it's fantastic. Any minor complaints are more than compensated for by the additional capabilities.

3. The SD display looks much better than with the 5100. I have the incoming signal split directly into the TV, and the unconverted analog looks a little better than the upconverted digital, but neither one is too bad.

4. I watched NYPD last night without a single occurrence of the usual 104 glitches. Too early to conclude anything, especially since the same problems have been reported OTA. Perhaps "they" have fixed it???

Am I the first one to notice that Comcast Seattle can't map their own channels properly in the 6412 MSTV Guide? 110 is listed as KTWB-DT, when actually it is KCTS Kids during the day, off at night. The actial WB digital channel is 114, listed as ABC News Now. ABC News is actually on 115, listed as No Information.

Guess no one else has the same lowbrow tastes- discovered this while trying to set up recording for Blue Collar TV.

Other than that, I like my new 6412! So lovely not to be a slave to schedule if I want to watch something in HDTV.

BTW, the installer who rolled out to install my box on Monday said he was getting his the next day- but Comcast wouldn't allow HIM to install it himself! Guess it depends on where you live. From over here, the truck roll costs me much less than a trip to Seattle or Redmond.

Originally posted by wareagle
1. It looks suspiciously like (from my online bill activity) the DVR service is an additional $9.95 -- leaving the $5.00/month charge for the HD box in place. My activity shows a charge of $6.63 for DVR service from 11/16 to 12/5 (20 days) with no adjustment for HD alone. We'll see how it shakes down, but it may affect the impulse of some to add extra DVR's.



the net is supposed to be 4.95 more than what we were paying before with the HD box. so, instead of $5 for a box, and $5 for the 'advanced' box, it should be now $5 for a box, and $9.95 for the dvr service - $4.95 more. watch your bill...

BJM, could you post, what the special code is, i've called about 5 times spoke with 5 different people, and they won't budge for me!! So if you could call to find out what the name of the special code is that would help me out!! Thanks as i am in the same boat you were in!!

Originally posted by drbenson
Am I the first one to notice that Comcast Seattle can't map their own channels properly in the 6412 MSTV Guide? 110 is listed as KTWB-DT, when actually it is KCTS Kids during the day, off at night. The actial WB digital channel is 114, listed as ABC News Now. ABC News is actually on 115, listed as No Information.


Well, I see KTWB-DT on 110, ABC News on 114, and KCTS Kids on 119 -- just as I did before the box switch. Don't know how yours could be different.

Originally posted by wareagle
I watched NYPD last night without a single occurrence of the usual 104 glitches. Too early to conclude anything, especially since the same problems have been reported OTA. Perhaps "they" have fixed it???
I watched NYPD Blue last night...and for me at least...their audio was screwed up. Got the front audio from the surround speakers. And, then only left channel. Anyone else getting this?

Originally posted by drbenson
Am I the first one to notice that Comcast Seattle can't map their own channels properly in the 6412 MSTV Guide? 110 is listed as KTWB-DT, when actually it is KCTS Kids during the day, off at night. The actial WB digital channel is 114, listed as ABC News Now. ABC News is actually on 115, listed as No Information. Those ARE the correct mappings for Seattle/Eastside. Maybe your new box is just configured for the wrong area (assuming you have different mappings over in Kitsap area).

I watched NYPD Blue last night...and for me at least...their audio was screwed up. Got the front audio from the surround speakers. And, then only left channel. Anyone else getting this?

Scrubs was having the same problem last night... sound from only the Left Rear surround speaker. I remember reading that OTA transmissions were having the same problem.

Originally posted by Chhuong
BJM, could you post, what the special code is, i've called about 5 times spoke with 5 different people, and they won't budge for me!! So if you could call to find out what the name of the special code is that would help me out!! Thanks as i am in the same boat you were in!!

Chhuong,

Sorry to hear that your attempts have not been successful. That is discouraging. I already tried my best to get the exact name or number of the special code when I first called so I could be more specific posting here but he would not give it to me. If something more specific shows up on my bill I will post it. Sorry. Make sure to send a written complaint to Comcast. I'm planning on doing that even though I was lucky enough to get this break.

Brent

yeah it's total bs. i will be making a complaint, and if it comes down to it i might even be switching to directv, for the hdtivo!!

Well......I'm happy with the 6412 in general, especially after getting rid of all those pointless channels in the guide I don't watch or subscribe to.

Comcast was able to fix my issue with receiving the NBA pack channels I wrote about earlier.......EXCEPT!!!!!!!!!!.......It won't let me record any of the games even though I'm a paying subscriber. I tried picking the game in the guide as well as a manual recording with time and channel. This was the main reason I got this besides HD recording. I'm really upset and can't believe it.

Ah, so channel mapping is different from eastside to Bremerton area. Does anyone know the magic code to get the guide to use the proper channel information?

Originally posted by BJM
Chhuong,

Sorry to hear that your attempts have not been successful. That is discouraging. I already tried my best to get the exact name or number of the special code when I first called so I could be more specific posting here but he would not give it to me. If something more specific shows up on my bill I will post it. Sorry. Make sure to send a written complaint to Comcast. I'm planning on doing that even though I was lucky enough to get this break.

Brent

Brent,

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I would like to know, once you have the special code, how do you actually get the box? Did Comcast come to your home to install it or you went back to Comcast office and picked one up?

I do not have basic cable either (only limited cable + digital classic package). When I first went to the Comcast office on monday, I was turned away for exactly the same excuse of not having basic cable. I then called Comcast to request for the DVR service. Surprisingly, I was told that it's all set. The DVR is added to my account and installation is scheduled for next week wednesday. It will be only $5 extra for the upgrade (as I already have a HD box). I was happy but I didn't really want to wait for installation, so I went back to Comcast office this morning to exchange boxes. But this time, I was told that my order still can not be closed due to the lack of basic cable. I still do not get the DVR box! OK, I will have to wait for the installation and see what happens.

The lady at Comcast desk mentioned that there was a company email circulating yesterday which specifically said no DVR without basic cable.

I do love the 6412.

I do love the program guide, the easy and intuitive interface, and especially the HD recording capability.

But...the colors seem muted compared to the previous 6200. Keep in mind this is not an A-B comparison - just my memory of what had been for the previous few months.

Is anyone else seeing this?

I connect by DVI to a Z2 projector, and have the same set up settings (16:9 and 720p)

Originally posted by artshotwell
I watched NYPD Blue last night...and for me at least...their audio was screwed up. Got the front audio from the surround speakers. And, then only left channel. Anyone else getting this?

Art:

Every so often this channel mapping problem pops up on KOMO-DT. It affects ABC network programs on both OTA and cable HD broadcasts in DD5.1.

Someone in another thread indicated that KOMO might have gone back to default settings in their encoder that are 5 years old and out of date. Their Portland sister station seems to have the same problem. That poster said they should have updated their encoder software to get past this problem, and perhaps they have not. I asked for more details but have not seen a response yet.

If you are in contact with KOMO engineer Don W. perhaps you can pass this info on. I am at work and do not have his email address here.

I did not watch TV last night so I don't know how KOMO-DT fared last night for DD5.1 audio. But I did have the same audio problems during Monday Night Football the night before. I am watching/listening OTA--I do not have a QAM cable HD tuner.

Originally posted by Nausicaa
The fellow manning the desk also noted that it was Viacom that is the main problem behind no KIRO HD on Comcast when I noted I hoped COX and Comcast could work it out. *shrug*

Not to diminish the importance of the issue, but this topic is really starting to warrant it's own thread IMHO rather than continue to come up and generate the same posts over and over ad nauseum here in the general Seattle Comcast thread.

Originally posted by brente
the net is supposed to be 4.95 more than what we were paying before with the HD box. so, instead of $5 for a box, and $5 for the 'advanced' box, it should be now $5 for a box, and $9.95 for the dvr service - $4.95 more. watch your bill...

The net for the DVR over the HD box is indeed $4.95. I called to check on it, and it appears that there is just a lag in the system for crediting returns.

Just got 2 boxes installed but no new remote. I'm at work and wife at home. Tech said there are no new remotes. This happen to anyone else? Where can we get the new remotes for the 6412's?

Originally posted by alma321
Just got 2 boxes installed but no new remote. I'm at work and wife at home. Tech said there are no new remotes. This happen to anyone else? Where can we get the new remotes for the 6412's?

Tech gave me a new remote yesterday when he installed my 6412. Obviously the one that did your install didn't know to grab one.

On a side note are your boxes on two seperate tvs? Just curious because i'm contemplating a second box.

Originally posted by danstone
Not to diminish the importance of the issue, but this topic is really starting to warrant it's own thread IMHO rather than continue to come up and generate the same posts over and over ad nauseum here in the general Seattle Comcast thread.

Go back and reread the first post in this thread. This thread was started to discuss the unavailability of locals on Comcast Seattle. Thus, the KIRO controversy is what this thread is supposed to be about, and it just evolved into a general Comcast Seattle thread.

Originally posted by IssaquahHD
Tech gave me a new remote yesterday when he installed my 6412. Obviously the one that did your install didn't know to grab one.

On a side note are your boxes on two seperate tvs? Just curious because i'm contemplating a second box.

Yes, they are on 2 seperate TV's. Wife just called, Tech's was having issues hooking up the boxes. Looks like the problems were because they did not have the correct remotes. They went to the truck and sure enough, 2 shiny grey new remotes. Wow.

Originally posted by alma321
Yes, they are on 2 seperate TV's. Wife just called, Tech's was having issues hooking up the boxes. Looks like the problems were because they did not have the correct remotes. They went to the truck and sure enough, 2 shiny grey new remotes. Wow.

Glad they figured it out. Sounds similiar to my experiance yesterday, tech didn't think the second tuner on the box would be activated for a while.

For the people that have gone to the Comcast store for their 6412 did everyone exchange an old box? I am wondering if I decide to get a second 6412 if I have to pay for another installation. This one would be in a location that doesn't currently have a digital cable box.

Originally posted by nwphil
Brent,

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I would like to know, once you have the special code, how do you actually get the box? Did Comcast come to your home to install it or you went back to Comcast office and picked one up?



Not wanting to risk the deal I had just been offered I decided to let them take me for another $16.99 to come out to my house. My appointment is this Saturday. I actually considered calling again to see if I could cancel and just pick up my box. So thank YOU for sharing. I will just wait to see what happens during the install like you. Good luck.

Brent

Originally posted by hoffert
I do love the 6412.... But...the colors seem muted compared to the previous 6200. Keep in mind this is not an A-B comparison - just my memory of what had been for the previous few months.

Is anyone else seeing this?

I connect by DVI to a Z2 projector, and have the same set up settings (16:9 and 720p) Same here. Comparing DVI and Component outputs on the 6412, the DVI is much softer, with muted colors. TV is a Panasonic TH-50PHD6UY plasma. With the previous 6200 box plugged in, I didn't notice much difference between DVI and Component.

I went by the N Seattle office and dropped off my 2 current boxes (one 6100 for hi-def to my projector, one older model) for 2 of the new ones. Everything went smooth and took maybe 5 minutes max. I did notice that I was given two different silver remotes - the rep said "aha" and swapped it for a different silver one (one had a grey back half, the other a black back half). Both of the remotes (that I ended up with) have the "My DVR" button in the middle as noted previously, so I'm sure they are the correct ones (haven't been home yet to hook everything up and try it out).

She did say that the first box "will be $5 extra, the second box $10 extra", which is $5 more than I expected ... when I get the first bill I'll question it if that's truly the cost (unless that is what it should be).

Cliff

Originally posted by WiFi-Spy
To keep the HD from making access noise every few seconds, tune it to a music channel before you turn it off. As you know you can't record the music channels so it will not buffer the data= no HD access noise.

You will still hear the HD spinning though. But I couldn't notice it while in bed(5 feet from box)

I'd hope what you're hearing is fan noise. That can be difficult to get under control.

If they have hard drive noise issues, that's inexcusable. I know they don't charge much for these things, but putting in a noisy drive is really stupid (if that is what they did).

Originally posted by Al Shing
Go back and reread the first post in this thread. This thread was started to discuss the unavailability of locals on Comcast Seattle. Thus, the KIRO controversy is what this thread is supposed to be about, and it just evolved into a general Comcast Seattle thread.

I've read the post and see your point, but I would also offer that the entire 'Local HDTV Info' section has been considerably restructured since the start of this thread with the (seeming) intention for threads to cover general discussion about a particular provider in a particular city.

Perhaps we should simply have one post (the first one would be ideal if possible that Tivolicious would modify it) that is updated with the current status of the local HD channels then. Numerous posts every couple weeks asking 'Why isn't KIRO in HD' and the invariable subsequent numerous speculative answer replies simply make this thread more cumbersome and harder to navigate than it needs to be IMHO.

Maybe I'm in the minority in feeling that this should now be a separate thread topic (or one post being kept updated), but I was simply trying to offer a constructive suggestion.

Anyone else getting all the premium channels since they got there 6412??

Im recording all Matrix trilogy on cinemax HD.....(the first one is on now)

Im only supose to have HBO


This happend for me when I first got my 6200 also....

I know you are all excited about 6412's, but...

My contact at KOMO just told me that there have been a few improvements put in place today so LOST should be better if things are working properly. If you watch it tonight, post your results since I think it is a DD5.1 broadcast.

danstone, I think it is mostly the newbies to HD that are asking about KIRO, since they may not have read the 196 preceding pages and are up to snuff on what is going on with that situation.

I'm not sure if Tivolicious is even active on this thread anymore, and we certainly don't want to burden him with having to keep the first post updated. Nobody is going to even be looking at that post for information anyway.

SonomaSearcher is really the one who keeps up with developments with Cox, and since he is a moderator now, he should decide what to do about moving posts on that subject out of this thread. But since Comcast follows this thread, I don't think it hurts to keep hitting the subject regularly so they won't forget we still want that channel.

Meanwhile, I think it is time to start beating the drum for UPN HD. With Veronica Mars and Enterprise in HD, I think it belongs more than KONG DT, which has nothing in HD.

Well this is a great place for information (not sure what I would do without it) but almost 200 pages is really the problem. We almost need our own group, but then so does every other city, and I’m not sure if they can setup that kind of structure.

And I want TNT-HD. :)

Originally posted by quarque
My contact at KOMO just told me that there have been a few improvements put in place today so LOST should be better if things are working properly. If you watch it tonight, post your results since I think it is a DD5.1 broadcast.

I just called the news tip line and asked them to contact engineering to flip the switch to 16:9... :p

Originally posted by quarque
My contact at KOMO just told me that there have been a few improvements put in place today so LOST should be better if things are working properly.

Well, right now it appears to be in 4:3 digital. :rolleyes:

Oh well, least TiVo is catching it, as well.

Smallville is looking fine.

This morning I walked into the 94th St office and traded up to the 6412 no problems. Total time maybe 5 minutes.

If you're trading up, be sure to bring your old remote and insist on a new remote. The woman at the counter first said that I didn't need a new remote -- because my old 6200 remote looks so similar, I think she thought they were the same. But with a small bit of insistence, she grabbed a new remote and I pointed out the "My DVR" buttons.

Be sure to insist on a remote with the "My DVR" button.

The new box rocks.

Not only was LOST in 4:3 until the first commercial break, the audio sounded like it was recorded in a tin can. Whatever they changed they changed it to the worse. It reminded me of listening to AM radio.

You would think that they have a bunch of interns running all HD broadcasts...

I TOTALLY AGREE......screw kiro..... I want TNT-HD!!!!!!!

My old DCT-2000 still wouldn't show the IPG menu yesterday evening so I called Comcast. They sent the big hit to reload the entire box from the bottom up. After 4 hours, I tested the box, and -SURPRISE- it had the new MSTV IPG.

I don't recall anyone else saying that their old box ended up with the new IPG after installing the DVR. Is that what everyone else is seeing?

Does anyone know if the N. Seattle service center (94th street and aurora) still have any new dvr boxes available? I was told on the phone 2 days ago that they would never have any boxes, so I decided not to go... but then people kept posting in here that they were able to drop off their old box and get the new one with no problem? I have a date set up on Sunday, but I'd rather not pay the ridiculous install charge when I can do it myself.

I know some people were able to do it yesterday... was anyone able to go in and make the exchange today? If so, I'll try and head there after work today.

well i'm just going to go try and pick one up tomorrow, hopefully that will work. Also if anyone else has luck getting the dvr and has only limited cable, and a digital package. Please get the name of the person who helped you that would help out alot. Thanks!!

WiFi-Spy,

I too have noticed that many "premium" channels are unlocked..not sure how long it will last :p

Rich

Originally posted by boykster
WiFi-Spy,

I too have noticed that many "premium" channels are unlocked..not sure how long it will last :p

Rich

I picked up my box Monday and had all channels too.

They went away last night:(

I picked up my box on Monday. All the Premium channels are unlocked except for Starz which is showing the only thing I wanted to watch in HD: LOTR

Originally posted by BJM
Not wanting to risk the deal I had just been offered I decided to let them take me for another $16.99 to come out to my house. My appointment is this Saturday. I actually considered calling again to see if I could cancel and just pick up my box. So thank YOU for sharing. I will just wait to see what happens during the install like you. Good luck.

Brent

Good luck to you too! Let us know how the installation goes.

After playing around a couple of hours last night with my two new 6412's, here's some impressions:

1. Guide, functionality, recording capabilities, etc - all as good as expected from previous comments. I won't miss much from my old D-Tivo (Tivo is a little too good at recording / making recommendations - my TV viewing time is limited and I found myself watching more than I should, heh).

2. The SD analog channels look significantly worse - both on my front projector (which previously I was viewing through the 6100), and my upstairs regular TV (which I was viewing through an old STB, not sure what the model was, it didn't even have S-Video out). Whatever upconversion / processing was being done on the SD analog channels (in both old STBs) is worse now ... the picture is grainier, the colors not as consistent, resolution doesn't seem as sharp (although the detail is probably the same as before). I'm hoping a future software upgrade improves this somewhat, or Comcast moves forward on switching all channels to digital ... of course the biggest lack / obvious contrast is no HD channel 7 ...

3. Running the upstairs TV with S-Video on the digital channels (including the HD channels) provides an excellent picture - and even though it's not a huge screen (I think it's 27") letterboxing / 16:9 is worth it and looks great.

4. The HD on the downstairs projector (I'm running component though a high-quality component -> VGA transcoder, 1080i) looks just as good as before, maybe even slightly better. I'm finally going to get some value out of my HBO subscription by recording some movies at odd times (the only reason I kept it the last two years was because HBO would come out with a good series just when I was getting ready to cancel ... whether new Sopranos season, or Carnivale, or Deadwood ...).

Cliff

Cliff, Thanks for your notes. I've got a 6412 set for install tomorrow. Up here in Skagit County, they're installing, rather than allowing swap-outs at the office. Already, the analog local signals on Comcast here in Skagit Co don't look very good. Ghosts and graininess. If this ends up being a problem, I'm not sure what I'll do.

I also noticed SD channels with new box not looking as good as with 6200. Went into the STB Menu screen and changed to 16x9 and 480P override. Fixed it right up.

Well, I tried that on my 6200 box and the picture actually got a little softer.

Analog channels are ALWAYS going to look worse on a DVR. This has been an issue with Tivo & ReplayTV forever. It's because with a DVR, you're no longer watching the original analog picture - instead you're watching the MPEG2-compressed version (which you can pause, rewind, record, etc). MPEG2 is lossy compression, so it will always look worse.

Recent ReplayTV models have a "Bypass" button on the remote which allows you to watch the original picture, rather than the compressed version (the downside of course is then you can no longer pause, rewind, etc). According to a previous response, this kind of "Bypass" is not possible on the current 6412 hardware. In the long run, hopefully Comcast will convert all channels to digital so we no longer have to deal with these local compression artifacts.

Well, I'm still not optimistic that digital simulcast is the answer. Just compare the digital Sci-Fi channel on 160 versus the analog Sci-Fi channel on 59. 59 looks far superior if you view it with a proper analog tuner. 160 I believe is the original overly compressed version from HITS.

I got my 6412 on Monday from the Redmond office. After I hooked it up, I found I could not watch channel 105 (King HD) and 106 anymore. But there's no problem with other local HD programs, like 104 (KOMO) or 108 (KCTS). Anyone else has the same problem, or is it just me?

Why couldn't you watch 105 or 106?

Originally posted by Al Shing
Well, I'm still not optimistic that digital simulcast is the answer. Just compare the digital Sci-Fi channel on 160 versus the analog Sci-Fi channel on 59. 59 looks far superior if you view it with a proper analog tuner. 160 I believe is the original overly compressed version from HITS.

I don't have channel 160 (Bellevue). Do you have another example?

160 is the East Coast feed of SF Channel and is the only channel that is available on both the analog and digital sides at present. It shows on my MSTV guide as "No Information", but I tuned it the other day and it was still the SFC East channel.

If you have the Fox Sports digital channels, you can compare FSN Live on both sides to see how badly the digital side compresses things.

Originally posted by Karyk
I'd hope what you're hearing is fan noise. That can be difficult to get under control.

If they have hard drive noise issues, that's inexcusable. I know they don't charge much for these things, but putting in a noisy drive is really stupid (if that is what they did).

Karyk,

Nope, those are HD chirps. The 6412 is doing a very poor job at noise cancelling/reduction (the components are out in the open because of the ventilation slits), so bad that you can hear those chirps from 12 feet away if you don't have anything else turned on. Unfortunately, that always happens when your system is off, because the 6412 has the "feature" of buffering TV even when turned off. I'm not really complaining about that feature, but it would have been nice to have control over it so that you could turn it off.

Since I have a front projection system, my unit is right behind where I sit, almost at eye level, so the chirp sounds are definitely annoying in my case.

To their defense, I think Comcast/Motorola did their best on the HD itself. They put a Seagate 120GB in there, which is probably one of the most silent HD (~2Bels when operating). Unfortunately, due to the design of the box, you can unfortunately hear it very well.

-eric

Originally posted by jimre
Recent ReplayTV models have a "Bypass" button on the remote which allows you to watch the original picture, rather than the compressed version (the downside of course is then you can no longer pause, rewind, etc).

If your display device has an analog tuner, a workaround to this is to install a two way splitter and run one feed into the DVR and the other into your display device and switch between inputs on your display. Not as convenient as the 'bypass' button, but it should achieve the same results. With this approach, you have the advantage of when you do want to pause or rewind an analog channel, simply switch over to the DVR input until you are back to real-time.

Originally posted by Al Shing
Well, I'm still not optimistic that digital simulcast is the answer. Just compare the digital Sci-Fi channel on 160 versus the analog Sci-Fi channel on 59. 59 looks far superior if you view it with a proper analog tuner. 160 I believe is the original overly compressed version from HITS.

Digital can be as good or bad as you want it to be. It's clearly better than analog using the same amount of bandwidth (or half the bandwidth for that matter). The question is whether they can wean the cable-ready TV users off the analog channels and use that bandwidth for digital channels. Then they could have more channels *and* better quality but a lot of people would need decoder boxes who don't use them today. I certainly wouldn't want to have to use one of those big Motorola boxes for a 9" TV in my kitchen, for example.

--
Steve

Originally posted by kanefsky
Digital can be as good or bad as you want it to be. It's clearly better than analog using the same amount of bandwidth (or half the bandwidth for that matter). Steve

No, it is as good or bad as they want it to be. I want every channel to be as good as INHD. Instead, most of them look like Fox Sports World.

You clearly have not done the A/B comparison between the SFC channels on our system.

Does anyone know if they have more 6412's at the Redmond Comcast store?

I tried calling but just got stuck in Comcast's endless phone loop.

Originally posted by analog8
Does anyone know if they have more 6412's at the Redmond Comcast store?

I tried calling but just got stuck in Comcast's endless phone loop.

The stores should have plenty for the near future. There is actually no way to get connected to the Comcast stores, you just have to go and hope they still have some.

For those that think they are getting Premium for free, this is probably true since the box has not been registered. I had this experience when I first got the 6200. I don't know what the ramifications of not being registered means. The tech that installed the 6200 did not "register" it and I had many free premium channels including the foreign ones; Japan, Russian French, etc.

Bill

Originally posted by Babula
For those that think they are getting Premium for free, this is probably true since the box has not been registered. I had this experience when I first got the 6200. I don't know what the ramifications of not being registered means. The tech that installed the 6200 did not "register" it and I had many free premium channels including the foreign ones; Japan, Russian French, etc.

Bill

Did VOD work? I would think an unregistered box wouldn't be able to access their servers.

Originally posted by Al Shing
If you have the Fox Sports digital channels, you can compare FSN Live on both sides to see how badly the digital side compresses things. Except that with the 6412, you have to keep in mind the analog channels are also compressed - you're seeing them thru the DVR's MPEG2 encoder, not the original analog picture. I'd bet the local real-time compression of analog channels by the DVR is EVEN WORSE than any compression done at the head-end for the digital channels.

Should be a simple matter to record FSN Live off of both channels and then A/B them to see which is better. My initial impression is that even on the 6412, channel 30 looks better than channel 415, although it is closer than it was on the 6200, or on the native TV versus the digital channel.

Bottom line is the digital simulcasts are going to have to look better than the existing digital cable channels to get me to accept them. Yes, I know it can be done, because some channels do look excellent. NFLTV is one such example. But NBATV looks like crap even though they are adjacent and on the same tier. We'll find out in six months to a year which end of the scale they will fall on.

If you want to see really bad try viewing the NASCAR in-car channels. They are so bad you can hardly even see anything. It’s just a washed out blur. I assume they are compressing the heck out of them.

Kind of annoying, too.

I recorded "Something's got to give" in HD 2 nights ago, then watched it tonight. The recording was perfect until in ended before the movie was over! I think only the last scene was missing, but still a major bummer. I kind of wanted to see the entire movie.

Originally posted by Al Shing
Originally posted by kanefsky
Digital can be as good or bad as you want it to be. It's clearly better than analog using the same amount of bandwidth (or half the bandwidth for that matter)

No, it is as good or bad as they want it to be. I want every channel to be as good as INHD. Instead, most of them look like Fox Sports World.

You clearly have not done the A/B comparison between the SFC channels on our system.

I think it's clear that the "you" in my statement refers to the one providing the content. If you had read the rest of what I said you would understand that the reason they can't allocate enough bandwidth to the digital channels is because of the huge waste of bandwidth on the analog channels. If you replaced all the analog channels with digital channels you could broadcast every single channel with higher quality than the best analog channel and still have extra bandwidth to add new channels.

--
Steve

Originally posted by kanefsky
If you had read the rest of what I said you would understand that the reason they can't allocate enough bandwidth to the digital channels is because of the huge waste of bandwidth on the analog channels. If you replaced all the analog channels with digital channels you could broadcast every single channel with higher quality than the best analog channel and still have extra bandwidth to add new channels.

--
Steve

What you are talking about is years away.

What I am talking about is supposedly coming in months. The analog side is still going to be there to support the 60 percent of customers who refuse to have a box in their house. The digital simulcasts will be garden variety digital cable channels such as ABC News Now, and the KTCS side channels are today. Those channels are not up to analog PQ standards in my opinion.

IssaquahHD

Not sure about the VOD not working, but I now rememeber a little more of the events that led me to remark as in my previous mesaage. It all occurred when I replaced the 5100 with the 6200. Since the 5100 was not registered, I got all the premium stuff and did not care to do anything about it. (Why?)

Then when the 6200 and HD came along, I got found out. I noticed that when the tech installed the 6200, I still had the premium stuff until he registered the 6200 and then it was gone.

I cocncluded that if the box had not been registered, it defaults to getting all channels. I do not remember anything else other than I enjoyed a lot of stuff for the time I had the 5100. I always had HD from D* anyway.

Bill

I don't know about unregistered boxes, but my box was registered at delivery time and my VOD has not work since.

Right now, I select a show and it tells me to "try later". If I'm persistent enough, it goes through, but then I'm actually getting somebody else's VOD (and I can't even control it...).

I had to go through countless phone calls and 3 tech support visits to get VOD to work on my 6200. At this point, I'm considering returning this box and downgrading my service. :(

-eric

yes, they have plenty of the new boxes in the redmond store. I just got mine. I also had a nice conversation with the front desk about KIRO. I also thanked them for letting us swap the boxes out ourselves instead of having to schedule a service visit. She claimed they were initially worried about having us "homeowners" swap them but has been pleasently surprised at the level of technical knowledge of the people coming in.

BTW - The new remote has a JP1 connector. If you really want to make it sing and dance head over to the remote control forum and read up on JP1 remotes. I know I'll be widely customizing mine.

Originally posted by Al Shing
What you are talking about is years away. Yes, sadly. But it does appear that digital simulcasts will start occuring sooner - perhaps just to get us to shut up about lousy analog pq!

Here is a link (http://www.cedmagazine.com/cedailydirect/2004/0504/cedaily040507.htm#3) to an article about the shift to 'all-digital'. Part of this solution will be small stb's as discussed here (http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2004/0904/09a.htm) . (Hopefully small enough for the back of the TV for folks like my wife who say 'no cable box on the kitchen counter')

Originally posted by metz520
BTW - The new remote has a JP1 connector. If you really want to make it sing and dance head over to the remote control forum and read up on JP1 remotes. I know I'll be widely customizing mine.

Is this a JP1 or a JP1.1 connector?

to all that have limited, I finally got the same deal as bjm, it just took alot of calling and asking. And finally I spoke with a manager and she gave me the same discount. Which is supposedly only for microsoft employees. So if you have limited and you are a microsoft employee just ask about a discount for microsoft employees.

I need a little more info here. Why does the 6412 have to compress the picture for the buffering? I find the pidture quality of BOTH the analog and the digital SOOOOOO much worse than the 5100 it's crazy. I was just trying to watch the sonics game on my 57" and I could barely even tell who was who it was to terrible. I mean brutal!

I've been scanning the NBA pack and the pic on those (441-450) is way worse as well. It doesn't seem to only be the analog channels. I'm using a high quiality DVI cable as I was before. I'm REALLY dissapointed and need to understand this more before switching back.

Originally posted by biz_qwik
I need a little more info here. Why does the 6412 have to compress the picture for the buffering? I find the pidture quality of BOTH the analog and the digital SOOOOOO much worse than the 5100 it's crazy. I was just trying to watch the sonics game on my 57" and I could barely even tell who was who it was to terrible. I mean brutal!

I've been scanning the NBA pack and the pic on those (441-450) is way worse as well. It doesn't seem to only be the analog channels. I'm using a high quiality DVI cable as I was before. I'm REALLY dissapointed and need to understand this more before switching back. Didn't you ever have a Tivo or ReplayTV? This is the way all (analog-compatible) DVRs work - is they digitize the incoming analog picture, and then real-time compress it, using the MPEG2 format. The resulting compressed, digital bitstream is written to disk. This enables "trick play" - eg, pause/rewind live TV, and results in a file recorded on disk that's a tiny fraction of the raw size. Some MPEG2 encoders are better than others, and most have variable compression settings (eg, ReplayTV's High/Medium/Standard settings). Compression is the price you pay for live "trick play". ReplayTV at least has a Bypass button on the remote that lets you watch the actual analog tuner picture without the MPEG2 compression (at the cost of giving up "trick play").

It's funny people have historically complained about the compression used on digital CATV channels - when the MPEG2 encoders they use at the head-end are vastly better than the cheap encoder in your local DVR. I guess now people will see what really cheap compression looks like. This is nothing new for owners of (standalone) ReplayTVs or Tivos. The picture ALWAYS looks worse thru the DVR than thru a normal analog tuner.

As for the digital channels being worse - I have no idea. To me, the analog channels on my 6412 look much worse than my 6200 (because it's a DVR), but the digital channels look exactly the same.

I have not upgraded to the new DVR yet because I'm moving to Olympia next month and I'll just wait till then....

However, when I tuned into ESPN HD (173) tonight It said that I was not authorized this channel?

Anyone esle experience this recently?

All my other HD stuff is fine....

mbunting
I had same problem the other night with ESPNHD.

Originally posted by jimre
Didn't you ever have a Tivo or ReplayTV? This is the way all (analog-compatible) DVRs work - is they digitize the incoming analog picture, and then real-time compress it, using the MPEG2 format.

Just to be clear, this doesn't happen with a DTivo, which is something that many renters of this Moto box might be transitioning from. The DTivos record the original stream from the satellite.

Also, I'd add that I don't have any of the digital channels, but the local analogs over Comcast are so bad I don't know why anyone would watch them, let alone record them (and I live in an area whether the system is not that old).

Originally posted by Karyk
Just to be clear, this doesn't happen with a DTivo, which is something that many renters of this Moto box might be transitioning from. The DTivos record the original stream from the satellite.

Also, I'd add that I don't have any of the digital channels, but the local analogs over Comcast are so bad I don't know why anyone would watch them, let alone record them (and I live in an area whether the system is not that old). So let me understand - analog channels are so bad, you don't know why anyone would watch them. Yet you don't have any of the digital channels. Wow - a Zen riddle.

Just to be clear - I'm not talking about DirecTivos. I'm talking about plain old (standalone) Tivos and Replays. Those have ALWAYS suffered from picture degradation because they are compressing analog TV. Comcast's 6412 is no different. Not because of any real deficiency in the 6412 - it's simply because Comcast cable channels < 100 are ANALOG. No box is going to change that. If you don't want analog TV, then don't subscribe to Comcast. Go back to your dish.

Originally posted by jimre
So let me understand - analog channels are so bad, you don't know why anyone would watch them. Yet you don't have any of the digital channels. Wow - a Zen riddle.

I meant I don't have a digital package. I have limited basic with the local HD channels. The $7 a month deal (after the $10 a month Cable Internet discount) was too attractive to pass up.

Back when I originally got DirecTV, and called to cancel Comcast, the woman tried to talk me into staying. I told her that I was interested in Sunday Ticket, but also mentioned to her that the locals off Comcast really were pretty bad. She actually credited me a month's service, even though I still cancelled!

My current Comcast set up is an entirely new line from the pole, installed after that cancellation. It didn't do a thing to improve the analog locals.

as for the espnhd problem i had the same problem, called in and they said they were having issues with their software upgrade at the head end and people had to call in to get the signal resent to their box, but how is anyone supposed to know that when they don't tell anyone about this, but mine is up and running now that i've called.

thanks for the info. No i have never owned a tivo.....since I only watch HD, B-ball and DVD's and wasn't prepared for the massive degrade to an already bad picture. The part I need a bit more understanding on is why wouldn't all channels including digital for that matter suffer from the buffering?

The feature to disable the buffering would be god sent. I can't handle switching the tv to a different input and dealing with commercials to watch analog. This is a tough decision for me and I apologize for sounding like I'm complaining so much.

Even on 104 watching the UM/OSU game today the picture was blurrier and more compressed looking than previous weeks games I watched. I have tried using component and see no noticable difference.

Originally posted by biz_qwik
Even on 104 watching the UM/OSU game today the picture was blurrier and more compressed looking than previous weeks games I watched. I have tried using component and see no noticable difference.
I don't have a DVR yet so I don't have much to say about this. However, I've noticed the PQ for ABC College Football has been consistently horrible the last several weeks on channel 104, DVR or not.

So far, analog has been "decent enough". I'm going through a four-way splitter (Regal) with a line to the 6412, one to the TiVo, and two to the HDTV. The HDTV looks best, followed by the TiVo, and then the 6412.

But I am so spoiled by HD, that SD looks sub-par no matter what. Comcast could pipe it direct to my TV from the office and I'd bitch. :)

Come on 2006! All Digital, All the Time! :D

Originally posted by biz_qwik
thanks for the info. No i have never owned a tivo.....since I only watch HD, B-ball and DVD's and wasn't prepared for the massive degrade to an already bad picture. The part I need a bit more understanding on is why wouldn't all channels including digital for that matter suffer from the buffering?
The key, I think, is how the analog is converted to digital. The converter built into the Motorola box probably isn't as good as a conversion done by more expensive equipment at the headend of a cable system.

And...many, if not all, the signals in Comcast's digital tier originate in digital form, thus no conversion is necessary at all. Better quality in, better out. With that said, I do notice compression artifacts on even the best digital picture (like HBO) that I hadn't noticed before DVR.

The analog channels do look significantly worse. In fact they look a lot worse than going through either my ReplayTV or Sage.TV boxes. I ended up splitting the cable (again) and running a direct line into the TV set. I'll let the high end TV tuner do the conversion. It looks better than the motorola box.

I can't visually tell if it is JP1 or JP1.1 in the remote. I'll have to dig out my JP1 cable. I'll need it for putting in a 30 second jump sequence any way.

The guide and PVR are very good. Much better than the old tan guide but still not as good as the ReplayTV guide.

Anybody else notice the Sonics games have started appearing On Demand? The 11/19 game is there currently. The 11/16 game was there a couple days ago. Found them under FSN in the Sports section. Even though we can now DVR these kings of things, anything they have available like this just frees up space for recording other programs, which works out well since recording HD takes up so much of the hard drive space.

Originally posted by artshotwell
The key, I think, is how the analog is converted to digital. The converter built into the Motorola box probably isn't as good as a conversion done by more expensive equipment at the headend of a cable system.

Not only that, but the more noise, ghosting, etc. is in an image the harder it is to compress it into the same bitrate. Even using the same encoder you can do a much better job of compressing the signal at the head-end where the quality of the analog signal is better. By the time it reaches your home the signal has degraded and can't be compressed into the same bitrate with the same level of quality.

--
Steve

Originally posted by kanefsky
Not only that, but the more noise, ghosting, etc. is in an image the harder it is to compress it into the same bitrate. Even using the same encoder you can do a much better job of compressing the signal at the head-end where the quality of the analog signal is better. By the time it reaches your home the signal has degraded and can't be compressed into the same bitrate with the same level of quality.Steve
Yes, and I seem to have slight ghosting on the three major Seattle net affiliates. Ahh...living in Honolulu 15 years ago, all three major affils there fed the cable company (TCI) via microwave and/or fiber. Perfect pictures...

Originally posted by abanih
KIRO - Claims the pissing match is all about Pittsburgh, PA. In particular a NWCN like news channel owned by Cox that Comcast doesn't want to carry as they have their own similar channel for Pitt.


Interesting--the Comcast tech who installed cable at my house last week said a similar thing--but he thought it was Philly (either way, in PA) and he didn't know exactly what the pissing match was about (didn't mention a news channel, he just said "some channel"). His opinion was that Comcast should be the one biting the bullet and giving customers what they want (he sees a lot of unhappy customers regarding KIRO).

I know folks have said "screw KIRO" but my wife is big into CSI and Without a Trace.

I'm just lucky the Superbowl is on FOX this year...

Originally posted by artshotwell
The key, I think, is how the analog is converted to digital. The converter built into the Motorola box probably isn't as good as a conversion done by more expensive equipment at the headend of a cable system.

And...many, if not all, the signals in Comcast's digital tier originate in digital form, thus no conversion is necessary at all. Better quality in, better out. With that said, I do notice compression artifacts on even the best digital picture (like HBO) that I hadn't noticed before DVR.

FWIW with the 6412 and the MSFT software there is no analog->digital conversion if you are watching live. Only when you use the DVR function will it dip into the buffer for video. In my case the analog video when encoded looks fine, and better IMHO then my Replay units.

On my setup the video looks just the same as on the 6200 and way better than the 6200->ReplayTV. Keeping it all in one box seems to make a difference in my case. However I have what I consider to be pretty decent signal for cable with no ghosting or any other overt analog artifacts.

As to the nature of the digital tier: those are recompressed, at least for many of the non HD feeds. I get HBO via my big dish in digital form (as well as analog) and those signals are noticably crisper than the feeds comcast uses.

Overall I am very pleased with the 6412. The MSFT software is a huge improvement over the crap from Gemstar/TVGuide. The ability to easily find HD content is cool as is the ability to see a whole screen-width of guide.

Oh, and having the gudie come up on the current time and channel is a welcome improvement. It's ironic when you consider that Gemstar/TVGuide as a PATENT on guides that come up on the current channel and half hour yet their own product cannot seem to do it.

Two things I want for this box:

30sec skip.
Suport for external storage via 1394. And don't tell me about DVHS. Tape is dead. I want to hook a disk up to thie box.

Originally posted by ianken
FWIW with the 6412 and the MSFT software there is no analog->digital conversion if you are watching live. Only when you use the DVR function will it dip into the buffer for video. In my case the analog video when encoded looks fine, and better IMHO then my Replay units. I disagree this is the case for analog channels on the 6412. As far as I can tell, with analog channels I'm ALWAYS watching what's been encoded & buffered. As the MS folks have said - there is no "Bypass" button to watch the raw analog feed. And on my set, it looks a LOT worse than Replay high quality. It's about equal to Replay "standard" quality.

Originally posted by ianken

Suport for external storage via 1394. And don't tell me about DVHS. Tape is dead. I want to hook a disk up to thie box. [/B]

yeah But Hard Drives are not permanent storage options..... they have a 100% failure rate....

Originally posted by WiFi-Spy
yeah But Hard Drives are not permanent storage options..... they have a 100% failure rate....

Absolutely true... I accidentally knocked over a BRAND NEW 250GB WD IDE drive housed in a USB2 drive case that stands vertical. All I did is knock it from the vertical position onto it's side. And cachunk cachunk click click click and it was dead, never to mount again. The whole season of Lost (so far) was gone. Only watched the pilot.

The 250GB WD drives are dirt cheap and worth what you pay--I have had more than one of them fail on me within their first 18 months of use (and not all because I'm clumsy). But for $109.99 (after rebate) you can buy a new one and they are tremendously convenient. Anything that's precious ends up in multiple spots. But most of the data (ripped DVDs and DVR'd HDTV) is transient and not too dear to lose.

So I'd still rather be able to hook up a nice big hard disk to that 1394 port than a DVHS deck.