Yeah, but I don't think all of us want permanent storage, just more than ~12 hours of standard watch and delete programming...

--Mike

The major problem I have with the new box right now is that the box shuts itself down at least once a day, sometimes more often. Normally I keep the box on, cause I have my ReplayTV connected to it. I first noticed the problem when my Replay failed to record some early morning shows, because the cable box was turned off. Then I noticed a divided movie recording on my DVR (6412), with a note saying that there was a power failure during recording. Then finally today, it happened in the middle of the day while I was watching a movie. The box just went off, LED display showed ---. I was watching it time delayed and lost my buffer :(

I had that problem and got a new box. It's been fine.

Originally posted by xkode2002


So I'd still rather be able to hook up a nice big hard disk to that 1394 port than a DVHS deck.

someone needs to make a DVHS emulating 5c handshake capable firewire HD:)

Originally posted by ianken
On my setup the video looks just the same as on the 6200 and way better than the 6200->ReplayTV. Keeping it all in one box seems to make a difference in my case. However I have what I consider to be pretty decent signal for cable with no ghosting or any other overt analog artifacts.
Well, I find the difference easily noticible between the 6412 and the 6200 I used to have. But, as I said elsewhere, I think a major issue is that the source signal from Comcast's head end is less than ideal.

Anyone know if they are running low on boxes yet? I was thinking about dropping by the redmond store on the way to work to see if they have any left. Also, will they give you more than one?

Analog Cable has always been bad at my place for the last 20 years. It was when I connected direct to the TV, the 5100, 6200 and now the 6412.
Garbage in Garbage out.

I'm trying to do a little troubleshooting, and I'd like to compare others' experiences:

I had Desperate Housewives and Boston Legal set to record on the 6412 DVR last night. DH was fine watching from the record buffer until the last couple of minutes, when it broke up horribly with blocking, tearing, and audio dropouts. Boston Legal exhibited the same behavior, whether watching from the record buffer or 'live'. Unwatchable.

I'm wondering whether others, especially in Kitsap, had the same experience? I know there are a few people following this thread who get HD OTA- was this a KING problem, a Comcast problem, a Bremerton headend problem, or something unique to me? Thanks for the help.

Channel 104 is amazingly inconsistent with its sending of HD content. The audio disappears frequently, tearing is not as frequent but does happen. Why can't they do whatever it is that Ch 105 does?

Can anyone explain the vertical row of dots that appears on the right side black bar?

My experience last night was that everything on 104 was OK until about the last 10 minutes of Boston Legal. Then the voice volume went down to almost nothing, but the background and music sounds remained fairly high (I don't have 5.1 hooked up). Eventually "they" switched to SD and the sound came back. Wherever in the system this occurs, there's absolutely no excuse for it.

If 5.1 is hooked up does the audio fade still not allow speech to be amplified. Sorry, I didn't know just how to word that. If I go through my amp will I still be okay??

KOMO does not understand switching back and forth between 5.1 and normal audio. I was so disappointed when I had recorded Boston Legal and then watched it only to find the last 10 minutes or so "bombed" out.

I know it is not a Comcast problem becasue it happens OTA as well. It is either KOMO or ABC.

I'd suspect the problem is ABC. KOMO only passes along the datastream.

Fox to announce deal to air Fiesta, Orange, Sugar bowls in '06 (through '09)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/hiestand-tv/2004-11-21-hiestand_x.htm?POE=SPOISVA

Originally posted by artshotwell
I'd suspect the problem is ABC. KOMO only passes along the datastream.

Probably so; the Boston Legal problem cropped up in the middle of a scene, so no SD/HD switching involved.

Originally posted by wareagle
Fox to announce deal to air Fiesta, Orange, Sugar bowls in '06 (through '09)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/hiestand-tv/2004-11-21-hiestand_x.htm?POE=SPOISVA

Praise Fox! I love it...the goat of the last few years re: HDTV has become the rabbit pacing the pack with new programming. I recall discussions not long ago about baseball in crappy fox widescreen, and now they're announcing new high profile HD broadcasts. SWEET!

Now....CBS anyone? Sheesh.

Rich

Just to report I stopped by the Redmond office and picked up 2 6412's this morning. I'll get them hooked up tonight.

Just a further note re Box registration after install. After I had the 6412 installed Sunday morning, until the box registered, I had many channels I normally don't. They were gone within 1/2 hour.

wareagle, good point re "in the middle of a scene".

My new 6412 took almost 2 days to "register" itself. Until then, I did get temporary access all the premium channels, but on the flip side, I had no access to On Demand.

Originally posted by boykster
Praise Fox! I love it...the goat of the last few years re: HDTV has become the rabbit pacing the pack with new programming. I recall discussions not long ago about baseball in crappy fox widescreen, and now they're announcing new high profile HD broadcasts. SWEET!

Now....CBS anyone? Sheesh.

Rich

The PQ of the CBS HD football games is typically much better than the PQ of the Fox HD games (at least one of which was horrible this year).

Originally posted by Karyk
The PQ of the CBS HD football games is typically much better than the PQ of the Fox HD games...

Not on Comcast, it isn't!

FYI I stopped by the North Seattle center this morning and got my 6412. They still appeared to have a good number. If you still don't have yours -- go!

Originally posted by jsmbluecar
Just to report I stopped by the Redmond office and picked up 2 6412's this morning. I'll get them hooked up tonight.

How much are they charging you for box #2?

Originally posted by Karyk
The PQ of the CBS HD football games is typically much better than the PQ of the Fox HD games (at least one of which was horrible this year).

Agreed...but a sub-par HD broadcast is leaps and bounds above a crappy widescreen enhanced broadcast....and trumps an SD cast anyday....

Esp. when I can't get CBS...OTA sux for me even...way too much multipath.

Seriously though....Fox has come a long way with their HD sports, and announcing more high profile events is only good news IMHO. It took ABC a couple of seasons to get their MNF down pat and consistantly looking good.

Rich

Yeah

Now maybe a couple more seasons and I can listen to Al and John from the center channel rather than the left rear. :)

It seems that whenever I watch HD (especially on ABC/104) I always have sound difficulties. I have yet to make it through a whole show where the sound doesn't go out or else start "skipping." It sounds like others are having this same problem???? Earlier in this thread I saw Boston Legal mentioned. So this would be an HD sending - not my TV or my box? I didn't know if trying to upgrade the box would do any good. I get tired of not being able to watch much HD on my HD tv.

I would say the ABC sound problems are the fault of ABC. If not, then KOMO. Next would come Comcast and then the box, but I can't see it being the fault of either one.

hey guys and gals, quick question

got my 6412, and was goofing around with it this weekend, i have all channels!

i didn't upgrade my service, just the box

how long will it take them to figure that out?

the weird thing is, my other hd box upstairs (not a 6412) does not ge the same channels

any thoughts?

6412 not registered yet on the network...

how long does that take?

Originally posted by billymac
how long does that take?

As has been stated on the previous page of this thread it can take anywhere from 2 hours to 2 days for the registration to complete. It is possible that it will never register but this is highly unlikely.

I just got back from the Redmond Comcast office and they still have plenty 6412 left. I can't wait to hook this up tonight and give it a try. What are some peoples first impressions of the new HD-DVR. I did not care for my old HD box especially since it would constantly lock up and I was not very impressed with the on-screen TV guide.

you guys are lucky...my building on cap hill only does millenium cable. MDM is the worst and refuses to offer HDTV. So for now, all i get is OTA stations, but I get them all so....

anyone else notice on komo abc 7-2 (the abc news now channel) a black spec of dirt or something in the middle of the screen? I was watching that channel down in the bay area and its there too!!!

Originally posted by boykster
Agreed...but a sub-par HD broadcast is leaps and bounds above a crappy widescreen enhanced broadcast....and trumps an SD cast anyday....

Esp. when I can't get CBS...OTA sux for me even...way too much multipath.

Seriously though....Fox has come a long way with their HD sports, and announcing more high profile events is only good news IMHO. It took ABC a couple of seasons to get their MNF down pat and consistantly looking good.

Rich

Fox, nationally, was the last network to do true 720p for digital television, but I must say they are the best now, as CBS does not always offer their football in HDTV, unlike FOX which all NFL games are in 720p now. Way to go Fox. Also I can watch the OC (don't laugh) in true HDTV now, unlike last season which was in "high resolution digital television" their words...

Originally posted by wareagle
How much are they charging you for box #2?

Second box is $15. I figured I could get rid of it if I don't like having 2 of them.

Originally posted by jsmbluecar
Second box is $15. I figured I could get rid of it if I don't like having 2 of them.
How do yu control two boxes? Or, are they not in the same room?

I'd get 2 boxes if I could stack them on top of each other. In the old days a lot of components (VCRs, etc.) let you designate each unit as "VCR1, VCR2, or VCR3" and then just flip a switch on your remote to control the right one. A shame they don't still do that.

Does anyone have the guts to open their 6412, yank out the HD and see what's on it? Maybe upgrade it to a 250 gig? Or does anyone know someone who has done it? This is probably the wrong thread to ask, but hey...

I just flipped over to 181 (NFLNET-HD) about 7PM and discovered an HD movie (Grand Canyon) playing there (it's one that's due on INHD2 tomorrow). There's seldom anything on 181, so maybe it's a good use of the channel. But then nobody has a schedule of these random events.

I just read this on PVRBlog.com:

"I just upgraded both my 6208's to 6412's about a week ago. The 6412's really work great. I plugged a firewire 250gb drive I had into the firewire port and no capacity change. I was rather disappointed. After doing some more research I plugged it into the USB port and my capacity changed. It went from 63% to 2%. I am in the Dallas area. I will try and firgure out what firmware are on both of my boxes I will post an update. Good luck to all..."

I picked up a 6412 from the Comcast store in Redmond today.

Good points:

Much nicer GUI than the 6208.
DVR facility looks basic but workable

Bad points:

Quality on SD channels still sucks (you have to sacrifice quality on 100 analog channels just to get a dozen HD channels!)
The GUI is still 4:3 on a 16:9 screen (a minor quirk)
The hard drive chirp is bugging me already (my living room is modern furniture with few soft surfaces to soak up noise).

Killer point: I'm not getting any HD channels or guide data. I had a 6208 plugged in and working fine up until a couple of weeks ago, so I'm not sure what's up. As I understand it, the guide data takes a while to come down but I should be seeing the same HD channels immediately right?

I guess I'll have to call Comcast customer service in my copious free time.... :mad:

The post on the USB drive expansion is positive though!

djmattyb:

This is interesting. This implies that the USB2 drive is actually active on this guy's 6412. Dallas means the iGuide version, not the MSTV one, but I imagine this feature is the same.

Too much stuff going on this week to try (maybe Sunday) but would somebody with a MSTV box plug in an empty USB2 drive and see what happens?

I wonder how this guy formatted the drive.

I did a search of pvrblog for "6412" and found nothing about this, can you post the direct link?

Originally posted by xkode2002
I'd get 2 boxes if I could stack them on top of each other. In the old days a lot of components (VCRs, etc.) let you designate each unit as "VCR1, VCR2, or VCR3" and then just flip a switch on your remote to control the right one. A shame they don't still do that.

It is possible...just not that easy to accomplish. I use an IR distro system to control my cable boxes, and I also use "blockout" covers on the IR ports/transmitters to isolate each device. You could stack the components, have an IR system with 2 tx zones, and blockout covers.....

Easy eh?

moto1, moto2, etc would be easier....

Rich

http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2003/12/comcast_set_to_.html

last post as of now....nov22 by bronson90

I may have to make a trip to fry's and pickup a usb hd enclosure and see what happens.....


Rich

Just my .02

I am a long time E* sub. I thought I'd try Comcast to see if they have improved anything. I jumped on this new receiver since it had the same capabilities as my Dish PVR, however the PQ sucks on Comcast!

The HD was great, the analog sucked.

Worse yet, all of my "Digital Channels" had an audible buzzing noise when changing channels. I was using the optical cable, and connected to my reciever. I know the cable is good since I use the same cable for my dish...
The good old reliable Cable tech came out today to troubleshoot it, swapped the box, same problem. I think it is a new box/sw problem, or a headend problem since it does not seem to be a global issue...

Anyone else have the same issue. I already had the tech remove all of the equipment... I wish they could get it right. I am ready for HD!

good luck all...

I picked up the 6412 box today and hooked it up tonight. The guide is way better then the old guide but what is with the hard drive noise. I know it's a Seagate drive and they are usually very quite but the constant clicking noise is very annoying. Is every box having this problem or should I return this one for another box.

Also, has anyone actually connected an external hard drive or some other device to either the USB, Firewire or Ethernet ports to see if you can save recordings externally.

I've had a 6412 since last week and do not have any HD noise, clicks, buzz or any other noise. The box is in the open in my equipment rack just a few feet from my seating area.

I could not pick-up my 6412, but had to have it delivered. It's up an running, but I don't know the limitations of the box.

How do I transfer movies to my DVD recorder?
Do I have to 'watch' the movie while I copy it to DVD recorder?
Can I Firewire to the DVD recorder?
Can I use the second tuner while I copy the movie?

How do I use the PIP?
Can I watch two channels at the same time?

Both of my boxes click pretty loudly even when turned off because of the ongoing buffering. It's particularly annoying in my bedroom. However, the trick of tuning to a music channel works fine to get rid of the clicking (since it's can't buffer music).

The interface could be better but overall I'm reasonably happy. Played around with it during monday night football last night. It does suck that recording 1 hour of HD signal sucked up 6% of the recording space though!

Anyone know how to set reminders for programs with the new boxes? I cannot figure out how to do it.

Reminders are no longer used- just set the show to record at the desired time and date.

No more reminders?? If you set it to record does something come up to let you know its recording?

yes--try it

Originally posted by boykster
http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2003/12/comcast_set_to_.html

last post as of now....nov22 by bronson90

I may have to make a trip to fry's and pickup a usb hd enclosure and see what happens.....


Rich

Well?? We're waiting with baited breath!! ;-)

Originally posted by sastimac
I could not pick-up my 6412, but had to have it delivered. It's up an running, but I don't know the limitations of the box.

How do I transfer movies to my DVD recorder?
Do I have to 'watch' the movie while I copy it to DVD recorder?
Can I Firewire to the DVD recorder?
Can I use the second tuner while I copy the movie?

How do I use the PIP?
Can I watch two channels at the same time? I believe your questions are answered in the first post of this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467203) (FAQ for 6412 w/ MSTV)

Originally posted by xkode2002
Well?? We're waiting with baited breath!! ;-)

Fry's electronics -> Check
USB enclosure -> Check

Time to play with it -> not yet.....

Tonite I should have some time to play with it....I'll start with an NTFS formatted drive....

Rich

Excellent. Thanks Rich. On another thread there was a post from Wi-Fi Spy (about 3/4 of the way down the 10th page: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467203&perpage=20&pagenumber=10) that indicated that the file system was GPFS (Linux), but who knows...

Yes...I saw that....I have a linux box (my media server)....i'll try ntfs first...if that doesn't work, gpfs is a possibility....not sure what tools to use to create a gpfs partition however....

google

Rich

USB HD updates?

Originally posted by WiFi-Spy
USB HD updates?

So far, no luck. An 80gig USB2.0 drive formatted with NTFS did not register with the cable box as a device. I tried several combinations of power-on sequencing, both USB ports on the 6412 (front and rear), etc.

Next up is to try formatting the drive in GPFS, but I spent an hour or so trying to get my Linux server to recognize the USB drive....blah...time lost.

I should be able to try the GPFS drive tonite...

Rich

Did you all hear about the price increases? About $3.00 for basic, either $0 or $0.19 for limited basic, and not announced for digital. I wonder if the box rental price is going up?

The newspaper said that there will be a price increase for digital as well but no specifics yet.
I pay more than $100 a month and still don't get CSI in HD...

Question for chhuong and bjm:

Regarding getting dvr on a limited cable + digital, I spoken to a Comcast rep. He told me that the special code that you got is actually a discount. With this upgrade, you get the actual basic cable for only $1.xx extra a month. But there is a catch. This is a promotion which lasts for 1 year only. After 1 year, you will be charged the regular basic cable rate ($39.99).

I wonder if you are aware of this 1 year limit.

Anyone know if the inputs on the front of the 6412 can be used to pass through a signal? The TV in my bedroom only has one composite input and since the 6412 has no RF modulator I have to manually switch to my dvd player when I want to watch a movie. Yes I know composite is crap, I have a component video/hi-def setup downstairs in the home theatre and rarely use the dvd player in my bedroom, but I still want seemless switching.

Liking the 6412's so far. Being able to record and pause hi-def kicks ass. Watched amazing race without any commercials last night as it recorded (started about 15 mins in).

Amazing Race is on CBS - Explain please!

Originally posted by rverginia
Amazing Race is on CBS - Explain please!

Amazing race is also isn't in HD, he was probably watching it on the analog feed.

Yes, it was the analog feed for that. Sorry wasn't clear. Someday we might get cbs (yeah right) and someday they might broadcast some of these reality shows in HD (yeah right). Amazing Race would really benefit from hd though.

The first 72 hours with my 6412 were excellent as I got HBOHD and MAXHD for free! Unfortunately Comcast seem to have fixed that little issue, but not before I managed to record all three Matrix films in HD. :D

I will try the USB drive tonight. I wouldn't bother trying a Linux file system - this is a Microsoft box so it will use either NTFS or FAT32.

The drive noise and poor analog quality are the main annoying factors about this unit.

Also, having to customize the channel list is a PITA because there are hundred of channels. The box knows what channels I get. Why not just have an option to hide unsubscribed channels? Why should I have to spend the time to customize it myself?

Originally posted by analog8
The first 72 hours with my 6412 were excellent as I got HBOHD and MAXHD for free! Unfortunately Comcast seem to have fixed that little issue, but not before I managed to record all three Matrix films in HD. :D

I will try the USB drive tonight. I wouldn't bother trying a Linux file system - this is a Microsoft box so it will use either NTFS or FAT32.



I got all three recorded also!

The box does use GPFS , I did some research and the box is running a custom embbed linux distro.... F.E. 1.7 is just "middle ware" according to a linux website.....let me try to find the link again :( ....too many google searches in the last few days....

shannon on the other thread just posted that we're wasting our time on the external drive thing......

Originally posted by boykster
shannon on the other thread just posted that we're wasting our time on the external drive thing......

Thats her job.....:p

on a side note:



http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/tvlinuxspec.jpg

Given that the software is M.S. FE 1.7, I would be surprised to see this. Are you sure that's not for the iGuide version?

0f course,MS has been making all that noise about open software...

interesting.....well...i wasn't going to give up :P

I'm still looking into formatting the usb drive with GPFS...just been stuck at work all day....hehe

Should have some time this weekend to mess around with it more....

Rich

Someday we might get cbs (yeah right) and someday they might broadcast some of these reality shows in HD (yeah right). Amazing Race would really benefit from hd though.

Amazing Race is in HD.

Heck, I'd be happy with UPN in HD so I can get Kristen Bell ("Veronica Mars") and Linda Park ("Enterprise") in high-definition cuteness. :)

No way is the 6412 running Linux. I'd be willing to put money on it.

I know Microsoft, and they are highly allergic to Linux and GPL code.

Originally posted by jameskollar
Amazing Race is in HD.

16x9 full on? Are you sure?

Oh well don't get cbshd on comcast anyway and I live too far out to receive it any other way.

Originally posted by analog8
No way is the 6412 running Linux. I'd be willing to put money on it.

I know Microsoft, and they are highly allergic to Linux and GPL code.


pay up sucka!

posted on the 6412/MSTV thread by Shannonv (M$TV employee):

OS/File System - It's not any flavor of windows or NTFS. It's provided by Motorola.

That's referring to the file system, not the OS. The MSTV OS is a variant of Windows CE.NET. The 6412 hardware, however, can run a variety of different OS's - including Linux. It depends on what the cable co wants to deploy.

Foundation Edition is not an OS......

No, it's not, but I would be very surprised to find that MS built its software on Linux.

After more research, it seems Microsoft has several cable box platforms. None of which, as far as I can tell, run on Linux:

- MS TV Advanced: this is a full-blown Windows CE operating system for advanced set top boxes (like Moto DCT series) with lots of interactive broadband features - way more, in fact, than cable operators wanted to deal with. Which is why almost no one deployed this, and it's now apparently been discontinued.

- MS TV Foundation Edition (the one we now have): cable operators wanted something much simpler, so MS scaled the product way back. From what I've read - it's really a set of middleware (.NET runtime) & applications running on top of Motorola's embedded low-level, proprietary "mini operating system" in the DCT set top boxes, known as GI OS (named after General Instruments, developer of the DCT boxes that Motorola acquired). See this article (http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS5258354959.html).

- MS TV IPTV Edition: Looks like the replacement for the Advanced version. Based on delivery over broadband IP networks, rather than traditional cable systems. Seems to be both front- and back-end software running on set top boxes and data center. Recent news about SBC picking this for large-scale TV deployment over their broadband DSL network - see this article (http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS2387473233.html).

Ok: Bronson90 replied to my email and here's what he posted on PVRBlog:

Maxtor One Touch 250GB external hard drive. The Comcast installer told me that was the only size and brand of dirve that they were successful to get the 6412 to recognize. He just plugged it in and OS on the 6412 formatted the new drive external drive as well as the internal drive. He also said that he hand picked mine as the first three bacthes of 6412's that Comcast received have a different firmware on them and they could never get them to work with any external drive. He also told me that everytime I unplug the external drive from the 6412 and plug it back that it will reformat both drives. FYI, my windows based PC did not recongize it the external drive with recordings on it. I would assume it's either a proprietary OS or some type of UNIX. I am very pleased with my success, as I just wanted to add space. I never had any want to remove the programing from the extenral drive. I couldn't have been done with the help of my Comcast installer (employee, not contractor.) I didn't pay him or tip him, just was a friendly and a considerate customer to him. He even complemented that it was nice to find a appreciative customer. I guess that Diet Pepsi, sitting down with him to watch some HDTV and shooting the **** with him really paid off. Good luck to all.

Posted by: Bronson90 at November 25, 2004 10:08 AM

Has anyone else tried playing 'Gothika" using On Demand? My wife wanted to see it but it has rectangular black squares popping up in the middle of the screen, I've never seen this before. Its on the HBO choice, and yeah its a freebie but I'm complaining anyway.

I just now tried a few minutes of "Gothika" and it looked OK.

Ok, I'm getting addicted to the 6412. I'm starting to watch things that I regularly wouldn't and I'm watching them without commercials. For instance I have it setup to record the tonight show in HD and always keep around the last couple of nights episodes so I can watch it if I feel like it. Timeshifting HD movies is the best. Just bring up the search by category and hit HDTV and it shows you everything on in HD that day. Tell it to record anything interesting and blamo!

The only real pain with having 2 boxes is setting everything up twice if you want it recorded on both (since there is now way to shift it around). I use one of my boxes for mostly HD stuff and the other box for mostly SD stuff (as it's hooked up to an SD tv).

Once I got my TiVo, I stopped watching SD live. I only watched HD live. Now thanks to the 6412, I timeshift everything, just so I can skip past the commercials. It's also nice to be able to go to sleep at 9 on Wednesdays, now, since I can DVR "The West Wng" and "Law and Order". :)

'On Demand' isn't working here at all in Kitsap. When I press the On Demand button I just get the channel display with '???' as the channel. I assume Comcast haven't rolled it out here?

I also noticed if I go to a channel I don't subscribe to, I get the message I am not subscribed. If I hit the 'Subscription Information' button on that dialog I get a "Missing URL" error.

Overall I like the 6412 except for the lousy analog quality and drive noise.

Comcast's HD lineup is still nothing to get excited about, unless maybe you are a sports fan.

I agree that DVR is the way to go. I have been DVRing SDTV since MSTV's first effort (Dishplayer7200) and *just* traded it in for their latest (6412). The dual tuner is a godsend, as is the HDTV. I won't whine again about KIRO (well, ok I just did).

Thanks to Comcast for making this great product available! Now if you're all out there silently reading the forum, get off the high horse on the skip30. FF or skip30... no difference, I'm not watching the ads no matter what. ;)

I doubt that Comcast or MSFT will ever permit a skip 30 type command. Look at all the problems Tivo is having with content owners.

Couldn't you program a primitive skip 30 yourself using a Pronto? i.e. send a FFx8, wait 2.5 seconds, send a play?

I'll join the chorus here, Comcast has a winner with the 6412 - it just works. I too, would like external archiving, so there are still improvements to come.

I doubt that 'skip 30' will ever appear - but if it does, it may appear with inserted ads - as with the recently news about Tivo. Lets hope Comcast avoids that (and ads in the guide UI)!

Originally posted by analog8
I doubt that Comcast or MSFT will ever permit a skip 30 type command. Look at all the problems Tivo is having with content owners.

Couldn't you program a primitive skip 30 yourself using a Pronto? i.e. send a FFx8, wait 2.5 seconds, send a play? Actually, it was pointed out in the 6412/MSTV thread that Microsoft already HAS implemented 30-second skip. It's Comcast who has chosen not to expose this feature, to avoid pissing off advertisers.

Originally posted by jimre
Actually, it was pointed out in the 6412/MSTV thread that Microsoft already HAS implemented 30-second skip. It's Comcast who has chosen not to expose this feature, to avoid pissing off advertisers.

And MediaCenter also has the 30sec skip. If MSFT were worried about it, they would pull it from MCE too, and they haven't. In fact, I just received the XBOX media center extender (brand new product just launched) and it has 30 second skip on the remote.

I just received a letter from Comcast which says that, as of December 8th or so, they will remove the following channels:

552 (HBO2 East)
554 (HBO Signature East)
556 (HBO Family East)
564 (More Max East)
835 (PPV Previews)

Although I've grown accustomed to the flexibility afforded by the 3-hour earlier eastern feeds, none of them were HD and having the DVR is a much better option.

(They also included a coupon for reimbursement of charges for one OnDemand movie between now and January 31.)

Somehow I remember signing up for "10 Channels of HBO". Can Comcast retroactivly change your service? How about if they just quit offering them on future packages?

Originally posted by rverginia
Somehow I remember signing up for "10 Channels of HBO". Can Comcast retroactivly change your service? How about if they just quit offering them on future packages?

No chance of that, since that wouldn't free up the bandwidth.

Interesting that they haven't bothered to provide any notification (mail, email, or web site) about the availability of DVR.

Originally posted by rverginia
Somehow I remember signing up for "10 Channels of HBO". Can Comcast retroactivly change your service? How about if they just quit offering them on future packages? You're kidding, right? First of all, changing the lineup 2 weeks in the future isn't "retroactive". Secondly, you might want to read the Comcast Subscriber Agreement (http://www.comcast.com/images/ImageLibrary/FAQ/PDF/Subscriber_agreement.pdf) that you agreed to (section 3, in particular). They can change anything they want at any time. They just have to give you "reasonable" notice. Your only recourse is to cancel your service if you don't like the change.

Comcast still has these duplicate eastern feeds:

517 Encore East
533 Starz East
550 HBO East
562 Cinemax East
575 Showtime East

They'll probably be next, although it's not clear why 550 and 562 weren't included in the first cut. Contracts (primary channel for each service), or something related to whatever they plan after December 8th, I suppose.

Prime time football

ESPN:
Boise State at Nevada in HD

ABC:
Notre Dame at USC in SD

I heard rumors that ABC has some HD cameras in the closet that they drag out for the BCS bowls (I missed those last year), so I'm not sure why they don't use them for any regular season games.

Wasn't that awful? ND at USC in SD. I couldn't believe it. I guess another reason to be thankful that ESPN2HD is starting in Jan and people on the forum are hopeful Comcast will carry it. It could be that the HD trucks are all taken for the NFL tomorrow, but still.....

I just sent an email to ABC expressing my disappointment. If others who feel the same do, maybe in the future they will consider HD for some regular season games.


Rich N.

ABC only does Monday Night for the NFL. They haven't had a single HD college game this year. More reason to hope Fox pushes them (& CBS) out of the college market.

Originally posted by wareagle
ABC only does Monday Night for the NFL. They haven't had a single HD college game this year. More reason to hope Fox pushes them (& CBS) out of the college market.

That's expected to change starting with the Big 12 Championship game next weekend. Check out this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=473748

Originally posted by xkode2002
And MediaCenter also has the 30sec skip. If MSFT were worried about it, they would pull it from MCE too, and they haven't. In fact, I just received the XBOX media center extender (brand new product just launched) and it has 30 second skip on the remote.

What I meant was - I can't see Comcast ever allowing it - and MSFT will never go
against Comcast's wishes by including any sort of hidden 30 second skip like Tivo does.

After a couple of months of the Comcast HD cable service, I'm unsatisfied with the price/HD content ratio.

The HD quality is excellent but the content is lacking unless you are willing to pay for Comcast's premium packages. The analog quality on the 6412 with my 50 inch plasma is so bad I can't stand watching the SD channels. In effect, by offering HD, Comcast has encouraged me to stop watching SD channels.

Why doesn't Comcast offer an HD only premium tier? Right now I'm paying ~$60 a month for expanded basic analog plus a couple of local channels in HD.

What I would prefer to do is ditch all the SD and just get a dozen or so HD channels like HBO HD, STARZ HD etc. I don't want all the sports and garbage channels that Comcast bundle with their Digital Platinum packages. This would push my cable bill to well over $100 a month, not including the 6412.

Conversely I could ditch Comcast and get VOOM with 30+ HD channels, including all of the premium HD channels I want, for $89.90 a month...

I guess this is one more argument for satellite or ala carte cable if that ever happens. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I was pretty disappointed by that as well. Guess it’s a good thing, really. I just expect games to be in HDTV anymore. A year ago that wasn’t the case.

Originally posted by raidbuck
Wasn't that awful? ND at USC in SD. I couldn't believe it. I guess another reason to be thankful that ESPN2HD is starting in Jan and people on the forum are hopeful Comcast will carry it. It could be that the HD trucks are all taken for the NFL tomorrow, but still.....

I just sent an email to ABC expressing my disappointment. If others who feel the same do, maybe in the future they will consider HD for some regular season games.


Rich N.

Hmmm... not so sure about the quality. Just watched Desperate Housewives and compared it to an earlier one I had from a friend who recorded it OTA using MediaCenter. Both connected to my Dwin Transvision 3 via DVI set to 720p projected to a 92" Firehawk.

The ATSC played through the media center rendering engine looked very impressive. The Comcast rebroadcast was less sharp, a little more washed out, and I had trouble finding the right color that kept people from looking either too red or too green.

Now this may be unfair, because I spent hours getting the right balance between the Media Center tuning videos (WM9 HD) and the THX tools (MPEG2 DVD -- I even ordered the $2 blue glasses from THX.com). There is no way to tune your display for the Comcast box (they should have something via VOD).

I just tried calling Comcast and they say the 6412 is not available in Issaquah. Is my best bet to go over to the Redmond office and exchange my box? If so, does anyone know their address? I can't find it anywhere. Comcast also told me the Redmond office does not carry inventory. Frusrtrating.

Also, does anyone else have the problem with KOMO HD and the sound being received just a little late? I can't watch KOMO HD because it is too annoying when the sound is behind what the person is saying. It is like watching a Kung Fu movie. I am hoping the new box will help this issue.

the komo lipsynch issue has been discussed ad nauseum over the past year or so...I don't believe it is a comcast issue, as I recall seeing the same problem when I was OTA.

Rich

I figured that to be the case. Sorry for not looking it up first. Thanks for the info. Still looking for ways to get this box since Comcast doesn't want to help me over the phone.

Many people have picked up the 6412 here:

City: Redmond

Center Name: Redmond Cable Store

Billing Payment Center Address: 14870 NE 95th Street, Redmond, WA 98052


Hours of Operation: Monday - Saturday 9:00am to 6:00pm

I went to the Redmond Comcast store on Saturday about 10:30 AM, and I was the only customer there ! I gave the lady behind the counter my old 5100 box, and she placed it on a pile of several other castoffs, and took a new 6412 box (in a cardboard carton) from a nearby pushcart with 7 other 6412s stacked on it. She told me that she had "lots of 'em" in the back room. A couple of swipes with the barcode reader, and I was done. Total time in the store: 2 minutes....

The only bad thing was that they had run out of new remotes. She said that the North Seattle store and her Redmond store only had a small handfull of remotes, and they ran out early. She assured me that she understood that there were new DVR remotes that were supposed to go with the new box.

If anyone goes up to the Redmond store and and makes the switch, and finds out that they have received a fresh supply of the new remotes, would you please post it here so I can run up and get one.

Thanks.

Melmoth

Melmoth, you were absolutely correct. It took 2 minutes tops. I got the remote and asked about their supply. They said it was very limited and they are instructed to only give them out with new units at the same time. It is still hit and miss with the remotes. If you can get a number to call, I would try calling and having them hold one for you. They said some hours they have them and some hours they don't.

Thanks for all of the help. Took me about 5 minutes to pull out my Tivo and get this up and running. Too bad I won't get all of the channels for very long.

Originally posted by xkode2002
Now this may be unfair, because I spent hours getting the right balance between the Media Center tuning videos (WM9 HD) and the THX tools (MPEG2 DVD -- I even ordered the $2 blue glasses from THX.com). There is no way to tune your display for the Comcast box (they should have something via VOD).

I recorded about 15 minutes of color bars from a channel that was off-air. I keep that around for calibration purposes.

I don't know how things are down in the big city, but up here in Skagit County, I stopped by the local Comcast office two months ago and chatted up the two women staffing the office. One promised to phone me as soon as the 6412 was available. I stopped by again once a week before Nov. 1 just to say 'hi.' She promised to call. And, she did just a few days later. And, it's installed now. Today, I took 2 tins of cookies in to say 'thanks.' But, then, this is a small area; not a big city.

I heard something on the radio this morning about a new Comcast offer for Satellite subscribers who switch to Comcast getting digital basic for $29/mo for 12 months? Has anyone heard of this, I can't find anything on the Comcast website (except that it says "DVR is not available in my area" which of course is wrong ;).

Hello All,

I just found this group while searching for information on HDTV in Seattle.

I can't say that I got warm fuzzy feelings about Comcast reading through some of the posts. :( Now I need your help.

I've had DishNetwork for the last 7 years and currently own the 801 PVR. Three years ago we bought a Hitachi HDTV-ready TV when Dish indicated they were going to start broadcasting HD and would be adding more channels. We kept waiting for the pricing on the HD receivers to drop (they did) and the HD programming to increase (it didn't by much; although the price went up).

I've had Comcast High-Speed Internet service since they installed it last year in our area.

Last week I decided to take a look at Comcast cable and it looked like a good deal with HD channels (especially the locals) available at a lower price than Dish (which has no HD locals) along with a $10/mo reduction on my HSI bill. To top it off they offered a $25/mo reduction on our cable bill for 16 months in return for our satellite equipment. All-in-all that drops the overall TV/Internet bill from about $110 to $70-something; and they are installing the DVR box with the dual tuners, etc.

Sounds good so far but now I'm hearing about the crummy Comcast analog channels on HD TV's (and we tend to watch a lot on HGTV, Food Network, History Channel, TLC, etc) and while there are more HD channels available on Comcast (vs. Dish) it still seems most folks think it's too repetitious (and we're not getting any premium channels).

Comcast is scheduled to install on Wednesday afternoon but I'm starting to feel as though I'm making a mistake; I'm doing this strictly for HDTV as I'm quite happy with the DishNetwork in general and with the picture quality we get from the Dish on SD programming.

Am I making a mistake? I've got to decide quickly.

Thanks for any and all comments...

I think I saw a 4-month offer, not 12-month.

Originally posted by jamesmil
I heard something on the radio this morning about a new Comcast offer for Satellite subscribers who switch to Comcast getting digital basic for $29/mo for 12 months? Has anyone heard of this, I can't find anything on the Comcast website (except that it says "DVR is not available in my area" which of course is wrong ;).

Yup--I signed up under this deal when I got my 6412. They take one of your receivers away (I gave them an old receiver that was worth $0) and they give you $400 in credit toward your first year.

Their prices are rather high, but at the discount it's a reasonable first year anyway ;-)

Originally posted by jamesmil
I heard something on the radio this morning about a new Comcast offer for Satellite subscribers who switch to Comcast getting digital basic for $29/mo for 12 months? Has anyone heard of this, I can't find anything on the Comcast website (except that it says "DVR is not available in my area" which of course is wrong ;).

What I can tell you is that they offered us $400 to switch from DishNetwork to Comcast; it comes in the form of a $25/mo credit on our cable bill for 16 months. I suppose if you subtract that from the standard digital cable price (don't remember what that is at the moment) that would come to around $29/mo. Or, if not, maybe they're shortening the program up to 12-months rather than the 16 months they offerred us.

They told me the "weren't advertising it" but I could have the DVR; this came after I told them we had a Dish PVR that I wasn't sure I wanted to give up.

I got the Ditch the Dish deal in July.
12 mos. of Digital Plus service plus HBO (only) for $29.95. Add the HD box for $5 and now the 6412 for another $5. I added Cinemax HD to that.

I handed them an old Directv unit that doesn't always work well with the timer. They did not want the access card or the 10' C-band dish on top of the garage. I get Starz and Show HD with the big dish.

Hmm, kind of a tough one and it’s really up to the individual. The analog channels are pretty horrible, especially compared to a dish. For me it’s worth it because I care more about HDTV and having all the dish receivers was killing me, but your situation might be different.

You might find out if they can install it and have you decide if you like it. You will probably have to give them your satellite equipment, but they’ll take anything. I gave them some old crap I had in the shed just in case I changed my mind. Plus I was able to sell my receiver and dish. They just toss it anyway.


Originally posted by lblampman
Hello All,

I just found this group while searching for information on HDTV in Seattle.

I can't say that I got warm fuzzy feelings about Comcast reading through some of the posts. :( Now I need your help.

I've had DishNetwork for the last 7 years and currently own the 801 PVR. Three years ago we bought a Hitachi HDTV-ready TV when Dish indicated they were going to start broadcasting HD and would be adding more channels. We kept waiting for the pricing on the HD receivers to drop (they did) and the HD programming to increase (it didn't by much; although the price went up).

I've had Comcast High-Speed Internet service since they installed it last year in our area.

Last week I decided to take a look at Comcast cable and it looked like a good deal with HD channels (especially the locals) available at a lower price than Dish (which has no HD locals) along with a $10/mo reduction on my HSI bill. To top it off they offered a $25/mo reduction on our cable bill for 16 months in return for our satellite equipment. All-in-all that drops the overall TV/Internet bill from about $110 to $70-something; and they are installing the DVR box with the dual tuners, etc.

Sounds good so far but now I'm hearing about the crummy Comcast analog channels on HD TV's (and we tend to watch a lot on HGTV, Food Network, History Channel, TLC, etc) and while there are more HD channels available on Comcast (vs. Dish) it still seems most folks think it's too repetitious (and we're not getting any premium channels).

Comcast is scheduled to install on Wednesday afternoon but I'm starting to feel as though I'm making a mistake; I'm doing this strictly for HDTV as I'm quite happy with the DishNetwork in general and with the picture quality we get from the Dish on SD programming.

Am I making a mistake? I've got to decide quickly.

Thanks for any and all comments...

Originally posted by analog8
What I meant was - I can't see Comcast ever allowing it - and MSFT will never go
against Comcast's wishes by including any sort of hidden 30 second skip like Tivo does.

Well if MSfT does OpenCable with XP Media Center there's really nothing Comcast can do about features in the DVR. That's the point of OpenCable, anyone can deliver an OpenCable device as long as it passes cable labs certification and AFAIK there's nothing in there about 30sec skip.

As far as the Comcast DVR using the MSFT software, yeah, MS is at Comcasts mercy. But FF still works so by eliminating the skip they just render customers grumpy.

Originally posted by Tom_Oliver
Hmm, kind of a tough one and it’s really up to the individual. The analog channels are pretty horrible, especially compared to a dish. For me it’s worth it because I care more about HDTV and having all the dish receivers was killing me, but your situation might be different.

You might find out if they can install it and have you decide if you like it. You will probably have to give them your satellite equipment, but they’ll take anything. I gave them some old crap I had in the shed just in case I changed my mind. Plus I was able to sell my receiver and dish. They just toss it anyway.

Thanks Tom.

I'm really kind buffaloed on this one :confused:. Seems like so many of the networks we watch end up on the sub-100 channels on Comcast (which, as I understand it, are all analog).

I looked at the Dish HD line-up again last night:
- HDNet
- HDMovies
- TNT HD
- Discovery HD
- ESPN HD

Versus Comcast HD
- INHD
- INHD2
- Local's HD
- Discovery HD
- ESPN HD

Guess the problem is that it's a pretty evenly split and depends on where you put your emphasis!

I'd go with VOOM for HD in a heartbeat if they had a PVR/DVR solution (I've become too used to that with our PVR and wouldn't give it up :)); but I'd still have to deal with getting locals (SD or HD) since I can't get anything OTA here.

I do have an older Dish STB that I'll give them along with an original dish if they want it. ;) (IF I do the install!)

Well, thanks again! I'm off to ponder more.

wanted to pass along some nice info I heard today. Music Choice will be added to On Demand (started rolling out 11/29 with about 280 videos). The available library of videos will grow up to about 400 pretty quickly. This will be in addition to Fuse and the other music providers already available through the On Demand platform.
Word is, by the middle of 2005 a "my music choice" function will be available that lets you put together customized play-lists.

Attn; iblampman
Maybe I'm repeating prior messages , but - if you split your input and run it directly to your hdtv you will find the sub-100 channels just fine. I do that with my Sammy, no problems.

Originally posted by nodrog2
Attn; iblampman
Maybe I'm repeating prior messages , but - if you split your input and run it directly to your hdtv you will find the sub-100 channels just fine. I do that with my Sammy, no problems. Assuming your "HDTV" actually has a tuner, and isn't just a monitor (like my Panny plasma). And obviously doesn't help PQ if you want to *record* analog channels.

Another solution: I split my cable and run a feed to my vcr. Which allows me to view the analog channels through the vcr to the tv. It also allows me to tape the analog signals with a little better pq than output by the dvr.

I just got Comcast HD installed with the 6412 yesterday. I took advantage of the dish buyback program w/ $400 credit. I previously had D* and switched because I just bought a plasma and wanted to upgrade to HD.

My first reactions: as noted by many, the SD channels below 100 really blow! The PQ is totally unacceptable and has me seriously considering calling them to come put my dish back.

As for HD, I was shocked to find that the local HD channel broadcasts (KOMO, KING, KONG) do not fill the complete screen in 16:9. I am left with black bars on the sides. This is a major concern to me since I have plasma, I have read this can cause burn in. Is there a way to get these to fill the entire screen? Without zoom?

My Pnansonic has 2 options: Zoom or Stretch. Try the stretch.

You will find that the fast majority of shows do fill to complete screen--but a few do not. And KIRO, Channel 7, of course does not since Comcast and CBS are still fighting and Comcast does not broadcast KIRO's HDTV feed.

Originally posted by dbutner
As for HD, I was shocked to find that the local HD channel broadcasts (KOMO, KING, KONG) do not fill the complete screen in 16:9. I am left with black bars on the sides. This is a major concern to me since I have plasma, I have read this can cause burn in. Is there a way to get these to fill the entire screen? Without zoom?

This is probably the result of not having the correct User Settings on the 6412. Try this:

Power 6412 off
Hit the Menu button on the remote
This brings up the User Settings. You may not have the correct setting for TV Type. If not, change it to 16:9 (settings scroll with the right arrow on the remote). Other settings are YPbPr Output and 4:3 Override. If it's the SD programs that don't fill the screen, you could select something other than Off for 4:3 Override, and live with the stretch. Since you said it was HD, I assumed it was.

Originally posted by nodrog2
Attn; iblampman
Maybe I'm repeating prior messages , but - if you split your input and run it directly to your hdtv you will find the sub-100 channels just fine. I do that with my Sammy, no problems.
I hadn't read that; thanks for the info.
Originally posted by jimre
Assuming your "HDTV" actually has a tuner, and isn't just a monitor (like my Panny plasma). And obviously doesn't help PQ if you want to *record* analog channels.
What I have is actually an "HD-ready" Hitachi RPTV; so I don't have the HDTV tuner but I do have the SD tuner.

I called Dish just to double check on the lastest "current customer" offers; I was hoping they were doing something with the 921 (HDTV DVR) but no such luck (still $549). However, they did offer me an 811 (HDTV receiver; no DVR) at no charge other than the standard $5/mo second receiver fee (I'd keep my present 501 DVR for recording SD). They also cut the $9.95/mo HD package charge in half for 12 months. They own the 811 so if I give up Dish they get that one back.

This solution turns out to address most of my needs (I can't record HD but I can live with that for now) and I don't have to worry about analog signals. I'll end up spending a little more than for Comcast but will allow us to test the HD waters before we take a big plunge and I don't have to change all my equipment out. We can send back the 811 anytime (no commitment) and the most I'll lose is the $50 install fee so its definitely worth the try. 'Course, I don't get the $400 dish buyout but what the heck...

Thanks for the responses and ideas; I'll continue to monitor here and I may still make the jump to Comcast once I can do a bit more research.

All the best.

Originally posted by wareagle
This is probably the result of not having the correct User Settings on the 6412. Try this:

Power 6412 off
Hit the Menu button on the remote
This brings up the User Settings. You may not have the correct setting for TV Type. If not, change it to 16:9 (settings scroll with the right arrow on the remote). Other settings are YPbPr Output and 4:3 Override. If it's the SD programs that don't fill the screen, you could select something other than Off for 4:3 Override, and live with the stretch. Since you said it was HD, I assumed it was.

Thanks very much, I did already set the TV Type to 16:9 for hd. The black bars are still there. It is only for certain shows I have noticed. Like Monday Night Football last night on KOMO was full screen, but then after the game, the other shows were not.

Originally posted by dbutner
Thanks very much, I did already set the TV Type to 16:9 for hd. The black bars are still there. It is only for certain shows I have noticed. Like Monday Night Football last night on KOMO was full screen, but then after the game, the other shows were not.

I believe the ABC shows which followed MNF were SD (they are next Monday), which explains why they weren't 16:9. You could watch those on 4 and have them stretch to fill the screen. As a corollary to that, an SD show recorded from the HD channel takes up the same disk space as an HD show; picture quality considerations aside, it's more efficient to record those from the SD channel.

Originally posted by wareagle
I believe the ABC shows which followed MNF were SD (they are next Monday), which explains why they weren't 16:9. You could watch those on 4 and have them stretch to fill the screen. As a corollary to that, an SD show recorded from the HD channel takes up the same disk space as an HD show; picture quality considerations aside, it's more efficient to record those from the SD channel.

So then, if I understand correctly...not all shows on channel 104 KOMOHD are HD? Only the HD shows fill the entire screen? I was making the assumption that ALL shows on the HD channel are in HD.

Originally posted by dbutner
So then, if I understand correctly...not all shows on channel 104 KOMOHD are HD? Only the HD shows fill the entire screen? I was making the assumption that ALL shows on the HD channel are in HD.

The local HD channels (KOMO, KING, KCPQ, etc.) broadcast a mix of 4:3 digital simulcasts of SD content as well as 16:9 HD content.

So the black bars on either side are normal when watching 4:3 SD content broadcast digitally. It is the same way with shows broadcast in 16:9 HD (like "The West Wing") which show the commercials in 4:3 with the black bars.

Originally posted by dbutner
So then, if I understand correctly...not all shows on channel 104 KOMOHD are HD? Only the HD shows fill the entire screen? I was making the assumption that ALL shows on the HD channel are in HD.

The only totally HD channels on Comcast are 663, 664, and 665. Well, 181 when it bothers to show ANYthing. Even the premium (movie) HD channels don't have everything in HD -- they are similar to the locals, in that they have the same schedule as a corresponding SD channel, and any content that doesn't originate in HD is brought to you with the bars.

dbutner: So clearly you're an HDTV newbie. Welcome ;) One nice thing about the MSTV version we have here in the Seattle area is that if you press the Menu key and choose the HDTV option, it will show you a list of all of the TRUE HDTV programming available now and in the future (I think it goes the full 14 days).

This is how I discovered that they are playing the Peter Gabriel "Growing Up" Milan, Italy performance in HD tonight on InHD2.

Can I make a snippy comment about Plasmas and Burn-In now?? :D Yet another win for DLP!!

This has to be one of the best features.

Originally posted by xkode2002
dbutner: So clearly you're an HDTV newbie. Welcome ;) One nice thing about the MSTV version we have here in the Seattle area is that if you press the Menu key and choose the HDTV option, it will show you a list of all of the TRUE HDTV programming available now and in the future (I think it goes the full 14 days).

I hope this doesnt jinx me *knocks on wood*

I am able to record any HD premium movie as long as I set the recording via the HDTV menu. I cannot watch the channels live , but if I go to the HDTV part of the menu and find a movie I want to record say on ShowHD or cinemaxHD I just set it up to record and it works fine.

anyone else ?

I received my cable bill today, unfortunately it shows:

11/30 - 12/29 DVR Service $9.95
11/30 - 12/29 Advanced Set-top $5.00
11/30 - 12/29 Receiver Upgrade $ .00
11/30 - 12/29 DVR Service Partial Month(s) 11/15-11/29 $4.97

So apparently they charged $9.95 on top of $5 HD STB fee. I’m hoping that’s a mistake. Will call them tomorrow.

Originally posted by wareagle
The only totally HD channels on Comcast are 163, 164, and 165...
Minor correction, that would be 663, 664 and 665

Originally posted by scorpi0
I received my cable bill today, unfortunately it shows:

11/30 - 12/29 DVR Service $9.95
11/30 - 12/29 Advanced Set-top $5.00
11/30 - 12/29 Receiver Upgrade $ .00
11/30 - 12/29 DVR Service Partial Month(s) 11/15-11/29 $4.97

So apparently they charged $9.95 on top of $5 HD STB fee. I’m hoping that’s a mistake. Will call them tomorrow.

yeah, the $5 should not be there if you only have a single box - I was told that the net of the charge is $4.95 over the cost of a single HD STB (take away the $5 charge for the hd stb, add $9.95 for dvr box & service).

Originally posted by scorpi0
I received my cable bill today, unfortunately it shows:

11/30 - 12/29 DVR Service $9.95
11/30 - 12/29 Advanced Set-top $5.00
11/30 - 12/29 Receiver Upgrade $ .00
11/30 - 12/29 DVR Service Partial Month(s) 11/15-11/29 $4.97

So apparently they charged $9.95 on top of $5 HD STB fee. I’m hoping that’s a mistake. Will call them tomorrow.

My bill:

12/06 - 01/05 DVR Service 9.95
12/06 - 01/05 DVR Service Partial Month(s) 11/16-12/05 6.63
12/06 - 01/05 Advanced Set-top Partial Month(s) 11/17-12/05 -3.16

It may be that the return of the old box hasn't been registered properly, since you should have been credited for the partial month for that, too.

Definitely make the call.

Originally posted by jamesmil
I heard something on the radio this morning about a new Comcast offer for Satellite subscribers who switch to Comcast getting digital basic for $29/mo for 12 months? Has anyone heard of this, I can't find anything on the Comcast website (except that it says "DVR is not available in my area" which of course is wrong ;).

The website doesn't mention the limited basic for $12.95, less $10.00 for cable Internet either. They don't tend to mention the lower price plans, and I think the web site also has problems with the different localities having different rates.

Originally posted by wareagle
My bill:

12/06 - 01/05 DVR Service 9.95
12/06 - 01/05 DVR Service Partial Month(s) 11/16-12/05 6.63
12/06 - 01/05 Advanced Set-top Partial Month(s) 11/17-12/05 -3.16

It may be that the return of the old box hasn't been registered properly, since you should have been credited for the partial month for that, too.

Definitely make the call.

I called and they fixed it (at least that's what the CSR told me). You better check your bills just in case.

Originally posted by scorpi0
I called and they fixed it (at least that's what the CSR told me). You better check your bills just in case.

You can access your bill and a posting of any activity since the last billing by creating an online account access at https://www.comcast.com/membership/Login.asp

Not long after my 6412 install I checked the recent activity, and noticed that nothing had been done to credit the return of my old box or to remove the upcoming month's charge (just as your bill indicated). I also called, and it showed up shortly thereafter on the recent activity page. Very handy info source.

Q- Anyone with the MSFE guide, does the i-channels function on the main menu work? Mine hasn't worked for me yet so I'm just wondering...

Originally posted by jeff28
Q- Anyone with the MSFE guide, does the i-channels function on the main menu work? Mine hasn't worked for me yet so I'm just wondering... Yes, they sem to work. Nothing very interesting , though...

Originally posted by wareagle
You can access your bill and a posting of any activity since the last billing by creating an online account access at https://www.comcast.com/membership/Login.asp


Thanks for the tip. I already have an online account setup and check it from time to time. Recent activity doesn't get posted there immediately though. Will check again in a couple days.

Did anyone else have a problem with 110 tonight? My box was supposed to record Smallville, and it says there is a recording, but when I tell it to play it says that the show is over. Then when I try to watch it live, I don't get any response, like when I try to turn to KCTS when they are off the air. What the heck happened, and is it just me?

I don't know about 110, but I had the same problem when INHD was off the air Sunday morning:

"I recorded 'The Pretenders' on 665 at 4AM (Sunday) morning and it shows on the menu, but any attempt to play it shows only a Start Over option which does nothing. The recording space number indicates that it wasn't actually recorded, which I attribute to the outage of the INHD channels. Anyone who was recording anything (Sunday) morning should be aware that the menu may indicate the presence of a recording which doesn't exist."

I had the same problem trying to record Smallville. Didn't get it on 110. I had also scheduled Jack & Bobbie on 110 at 9pm, so I switched that to 22 before 9am, so at least I got the show. I noticed at 10 that 110 was back up.

Has anyone else had problems with either their favorite channel settings disappearing or scheduled recordings/series being dropped? I removed a bunch of channels and set favorites only to have them reset on several occasions. I gave up and didn't think about it anymore until I noticed that the two series I had set to record were also blown away.

Any ideas as to what may be going on? I know the box hasn't lost power so I assume Comcast must be doing something to flash the box or otherwise reset everything.

Thanks,
Jeff

I went to the 94th st store to get my 2 DVR remotes since they didnt have them when I got my 2 6412s. The two chicks there were really rude to me and they told me that my remotes work fine for the dvrs...... I called comcast on the phone and complained about not having the remotes for my dvrs and they said they wont have more until 1st 1/4 2005:mad: but they said they would credit my account for 1 month DVR service to make up for not having the remotes......

::mad:

Originally posted by jjonesx86
Has anyone else had problems with either their favorite channel settings disappearing or scheduled recordings/series being dropped? I removed a bunch of channels and set favorites only to have them reset on several occasions. I gave up and didn't think about it anymore until I noticed that the two series I had set to record were also blown away.

Any ideas as to what may be going on? I know the box hasn't lost power so I assume Comcast must be doing something to flash the box or otherwise reset everything.

Thanks,
Jeff


I had the same problem today.. my series, and recorded programs (even the couple I had set as "Don't erase", were all cleared. I hope it won't be a continual thing. I really hate trying to get problems fixed through comcast. They are slow and uncaring.

Originally posted by WiFi-Spy
The two chicks there were really rude to me and they told me that my remotes work fine for the dvrs...

The CuStomeR is always right? They need some attitude adjustment.

6412 was delivered yesterday, replacing a 6200. got the old remote, the tech had none of the new dvr remotes. overall i am extremely dissapointed. the PQ of SD is unwatchable, my wife actually got sick from the noisey and wiggly screen, which dropped the WAF a lot. cable directly to tv or though ReplayTV was just fine as it was through the old 6200.

the tech said that that is how all his installs have went, they plug it in and the first thing people say is 'the picture looks like crap'. he mentioned something about the SD channels going through the mpeg decoder or something on the new boxes *shrug*.

the interface is annoying since they took some buttons that i have been using for years and changed them. mostly i was use to pressing up or down to bring up the show title bar and then press up and down to scroll through the shows. but now those buttons are dvr funtions like pause and ff and stuff.

so essentially ive got a new cable box i can only use to record HD and have to switch over to my replay to watch normal tv (but only the 99 channels).

edit: 6412 is hooked to 43" panny lcd via component. dont have an hdmi adapter to try the dvi out. also had it hooked to my toshiba hd crt.

lojones,

I too was a bit annoyed about the button issues, as I loved being able to press up/down/left/right to see what was on later, and on other channels easily.

There is a fairly easy workaround, press "Ok" first, then the cursor keys work as expected (brings up mini-guide if you press up/down)...with one caveat.

-> when browsing in the mini-guide, the channels are listed in ascending order from top to bottom....so pressing "Up" goes to the channel with a lower number...on the old setup, pressing "Up" would go to the higher numbered channel. A bit annoying, but I'll get over it.

Rich

Originally posted by lojones
6412 was delivered yesterday, replacing a 6200. got the old remote, the tech had none of the new dvr remotes. overall i am extremely dissapointed. the PQ of SD is unwatchable, my wife actually got sick from the noisey and wiggly screen, which dropped the WAF a lot. cable directly to tv or though ReplayTV was just fine as it was through the old 6200.

the tech said that that is how all his installs have went, they plug it in and the first thing people say is 'the picture looks like crap'. he mentioned something about the SD channels going through the mpeg decoder or something on the new boxes *shrug*.


Well, I'm somewhat glad to hear it is just not me because I went with the Comcast Dish Buy Back deal. The installer said I had 60 days to decide if I am unhappy with the PQ they will come back and install my dish back. I had this hooked up on Monday afternoon and I just called back today and told them to bring back my dish. The SD PQ on channels 1-99 is pure crap on my EDTV plasma, so I'm sticking with D*. Fortunately, I waited before calling to cancel D*. I'll let you know if I have any troubles getting my dish back - all I got connected with so far was a recording.

I use the TiVo to handle my SD programming, so can't really comment on the 6412 there (though it looks okay). Digital is decent (I record BBS America, Discovery Science, and National Geographic Channel) and HD is quite nice. Though I do wish ABC could figure out how to broadcast a solid and stable 16:9 HD signal from 8:00PM to 9:00PM on Wednesdays. I swear, I have never seen so many problems like I do with "Lost". I mean NBC is bulletproof with "The West Wing" and "Law and Order" and WB never barfed "Smallville" (till last night. :mad: ) and "Angel".

Troubleshooting here- did anyone else, particularly in Kitsap or OTA, have ER HD breaking up severely last night? I recorded on my 6412, and it was pretty bad. Trying to determine whether it was the signal KING was putting out or something between headend and my DVR that's the problem. Thanks.

ER looked fine here in North Bend last night. Still had the brief sound drop-out every 30-60 seconds on KING-HD, as always - but the picture was perfect.

ER was fine in Shoreline (N. Seattle area) as well....a few sound drop outs (not nearly every 30-60 secs) but other than that...just fine.

Does anyone else notice that the HD drama programming from NBC is MUCH darker than say INHD or ABC?

I'm always having to change my brightness/contrast settings whenever I watch Law & Order/ER. It got so irritating that I made 2 profiles on my plasma and a hotkey on my pronto to switch them

Rich

Originally posted by boykster
Does anyone else notice that the HD drama programming from NBC is MUCH darker than say INHD or ABC?
Oh...yes. I've noticed.. And, I've done what you ahve...created a separate profile for NBC.

A seemingly silly question: I'd asumed that the 6412 need not be turned on to record a show, but mine has not been recording a series recording that I set up. So, does the 6412 have to be left on to record?

Steve: According to the CSR who delivered my second 6412 today - no, the box can be turned off and it still records. I haven't tried that yet as I have been leaving it on 24/7. He said it would be wise to turn it off at night which I will do from now on. I had it replaced because of many power down situations, at any time.

Originally posted by Steve Goff
A seemingly silly question: I'd asumed that the 6412 need not be turned on to record a show, but mine has not been recording a series recording that I set up. So, does the 6412 have to be left on to record?
It does not need to be turned on to record. Mine's been doing fine recording while turned off.

I allready have my new cable box and I love it. Before I had it, I called Comcast to ask when the DVR would be available, they told me I'd start seeing ads on TV and would get something in the mail from Comcast about them. Well, thanks to this message board, I didn't wait. My question is, has anyone in Western Washington seen any mention of a DVR from Comcast on a TV commercial or as an ad in the mail?

Just what is turned off by the power button? Does it save wear on the disk (if not currently recording)? Does it interfere with downloads of guide data?

Originally posted by djmattyb
I allready have my new cable box and I love it. Before I had it, I called Comcast to ask when the DVR would be available, they told me I'd start seeing ads on TV and would get something in the mail from Comcast about them. Well, thanks to this message board, I didn't wait. My question is, has anyone in Western Washington seen any mention of a DVR from Comcast on a TV commercial or as an ad in the mail?

They don't even acknowledge its availability here on their web site. No ads, no mail, and no emails.

Originally posted by wareagle
Just what is turned off by the power button? Does it save wear on the disk (if not currently recording)? Does it interfere with downloads of guide data?
It appears that only the output is shut off. Guide data is still collected. s/w updates happen...recordings take place. Far as I can tell, the HD never stops, ever.

Originally posted by djmattyb
I allready have my new cable box and I love it. Before I had it, I called Comcast to ask when the DVR would be available, they told me I'd start seeing ads on TV and would get something in the mail from Comcast about them. Well, thanks to this message board, I didn't wait. My question is, has anyone in Western Washington seen any mention of a DVR from Comcast on a TV commercial or as an ad in the mail?

Just got mine installed, and I solely thank this site for that! Man, the idea of being able to record HD programs that I miss because I'm not home or asleep is well worth the extra price per month.

Originally posted by darinp2
Glad to hear you got it worked out at least. I didn't have Comcast when I called the other day (I cancelled maybe 6 months ago after getting tired of waiting for their DVR). I told them I wanted 2 of these boxes with just the local HD channels and INHD1 and 2. The total for the package was $26.98 and then another $19.90 for the 2 boxes. However, I'm giving them a DishNetwork receiver (and a dish if they want to take it down) and they will give me $25 off for 16 months. So, for a while my bill should be $21.88 plus taxes and things. They didn't say anything about needing any other packages and I guess I'll find out on Thursday when they come by if they try to renege on that. I may add Showtime or other things later as DIRECTV is compressing that one quite a bit.

Okay, I got my bill and it wasn't even really close to these numbers. I called and talked to somebody and it looks like the guy took the $25 off twice. The Digital Classic is $11.99 and the Basic Cable is $39.99, which takes that part to $26.98 with the $25 off. Then the first DVR was $9.95, but the second one was $15.05. So, instead of being $21.88 total it is $51.98. I see where the mistakes are now, so there really isn't anyway of me getting the original amount. And since the $25 discount is tied to the Basic Cable package it wouldn't save me much to cancel that even if I could.

At least I've been very happy getting the IMAX movies and things from INHD. And I'm liking the interface on the 6412 a whole lot more than the 6800 (or whatever it was) I had in the past.

--Darin

Are any of you using plasma displays (with the new box: Moto 6412)?

I just pulled the trigger on a 42" Plasma (Dell 4200HD) to replace my aging CRT (Sony 57")...

All this "crappy picture" talk on the SD channels kinda concerns me, but I'm hoping the plasma will handle it better than my older crt.

Any experiences with the 6412 and plasma displays?

This is encouraging. Perhaps the Sonics will do something like this.

Comcast to Carry 40 Denver Nuggets Games in High-Definition This Season

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041203/laf057_1.html

That's what they should be using KONG-HD for, but I doubt they have any kind of deal this year. Maybe next year after they've been back to the playoffs, unless they can still do something now.

Originally posted by mdbunting
Are any of you using plasma displays (with the new box: Moto 6412)?

I just pulled the trigger on a 42" Plasma (Dell 4200HD) to replace my aging CRT (Sony 57")...

All this "crappy picture" talk on the SD channels kinda concerns me, but I'm hoping the plasma will handle it better than my older crt.

Any experiences with the 6412 and plasma displays? Yes, I'm using a Pansonic 42" plasma and the crappy analog channels still look crappy. The best video processor in the world can't fix this: a noisy output from the analog tuner, which is further chopped up into a wiggly mess by the DVR's MPEG encoder.

Note - this PQ problem with the 6412 is with the ANALOG channels, not all SD channels. The digital SD channels are fine.

Originally posted by Roto
That's what they should be using KONG-HD for, but I doubt they have any kind of deal this year. Maybe next year after they've been back to the playoffs, unless they can still do something now.

I believe FSN has exclusive rights to the Sonics games this season...

Note - this PQ problem with the 6412 is with the ANALOG channels, not all SD channels. The digital SD channels are fine.

Don't remember where I saw this (this thread perhaps?) but there was a posting where someone said that Comcast will be simulcasting analog channels as didgital channels in the relatively near future. Anyone know about this?

I just received my Comcast bill, and it has one of their little promo enclosures that includes info about the DVR being available.

Originally posted by jameskollar
Don't remember where I saw this (this thread perhaps?) but there was a posting where someone said that Comcast will be simulcasting analog channels as didgital channels in the relatively near future. Anyone know about this? Not sure when or how - but this is a tough one for Comcast. On the one hand they have to compete with all-digital satellite products, and right now the analog PQ on their DVR is nothing short of disastrous.

On the other hand analog TV is convenient. It sure is handy to be able to plug in any old TV into any old outlet and receive channels 2-99 without a set-top box of any kind. I get zero OTA reception where I live, and I'd sure hate to have to buy or lease set-top boxes for secondary TVs like my guest room, garage, basement - just to watch primary channels.

Is it me or does it seem the analog channels through the 6412 seem muted? The box reset itself yesterday while I was watching and now the volume on 2-99 seems soft.

Jimre,

I agree with what you said, but this is not exactly what I meant. I don't remember where I saw this (maybe I was just dreaming) but it was my understanding that Comcast would keep analog channels (at least for the next couple of years) but would add simultaneous broadcasting in digital. This would require a STB (thats what a 6412 would be) but now you could have the best for both worlds. Ahhh, I was probably just dreaming....

Originally posted by jameskollar
Don't remember where I saw this (this thread perhaps?) but there was a posting where someone said that Comcast will be simulcasting analog channels as didgital channels in the relatively near future. Anyone know about this?

That's new to me, but as long as the bitrate is decent that will be wonderful. I am blessed with decent analog channels but a good all-digital solution would be great. I know Comcast would love to do it but there may be too many crotchety old farts out there who will freak out.

Well, the WAF factor on the DCT6412 is quite low. She likes the guide, likes HD and admits that it is way, way, WAY better than the previous Gemstar POS.

But the killer for her, and I think this is probably common: no 30 second skip. Our first PVR was a Replay4K, replaced with a 5K and now, in addition to the 6412 we have a dual tuner Windows XP Media Center rig (home built, no store bought POS) and she prefers the MCE rig hands down. No HD on the MCE rig, but 30sec skip and a UI that is SCREAMING FAST with a UI that makes finding and browsing the 320GB worth of stored TV a breeze.

And I agree. I still use the DCT because I will endure the FF reflex challenge for HD but for most stuff, the MC box gets the use. If MSFT ever provides a digital cable CableCard solution for MC then I think the Comcast box will be relegated to, well, being returned for a plain 6200 for the occasional PPV use.

Regarding all-digital and those sets scattered around our houses.. There is an industry initiative to come up with small 'set back boxes'. Perhaps by the end of 2005.

Here is an article (http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2004/0904/09a.htm) about it.

Originally posted by JasG
Regarding all-digital and those sets scattered around our houses.. There is an industry initiative to come up with small 'set back boxes'. Perhaps by the end of 2005.

Here is an article (http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2004/0904/09a.htm) about it.

Seems like they could just use all the non-DVR units being returned by people for DVR units. ;)

I’ll admit I don’t know enough about this technically, but why can’t they just develop something you put where the cable enters the house or on the box outside of the house?

On the thread of the extra storage at PVRBlog.com. I plugged in the drive Bronson90 specified (Maxtor OneTouch 250GB USB drive) and got nada. Either this is BS or there is some secret to getting the box to format the drive.

I noticed "Northwest Backroads" on KONG-HD (106) appearing in the list of HD programs tonight at 7. I recorded it & just verified that it was in HD. A first for KONG, as far as I know.

What's the cost of cable Internet here, after the initial discount? I want to make sure I'm getting my discount for having TV service also.

Originally posted by Tom_Oliver
I’ll admit I don’t know enough about this technically, but why can’t they just develop something you put where the cable enters the house or on the box outside of the house?

Each channel on digital cable is a MPEG2 video stream, the same video technology use din DVDs. Lets say there are 200 digital channels. This black box would need to tune, decode and output all of those 200 channels at once in analog form on cable.

Your current set top box has one MPEG2 decoder in it. This black box would need 200. It would also need 200 tuners and 200 RF modulators to take the decoded digital video and pout the analog version ona discrete frequency.

Perhaps some day you could stuff all this oin a few chunks of silicon but not today and not for the forseeable future. FWIW I think by the time it is possible to do this it will not be needed. All TVs will be digital capable and set tob boxes will be dirt cheap. You won;t stick one box on the house, but a cheap $20 box next to each TV.

My $.02

My monthly internet charge is 45.95. I also have cable tv,with the new 6412 box. My cost has been the same for many months. Should I (we) be getting a discount for having both services and if so, is my 45.95 cost including the discount?

If you are getting Internet and Digital TV service for $46/month, I would run and hide... and keep real quiet. My monthly bill, for the same services, is over double yours.

He's saying just his internet is $46. This is the correct charge, if you didn't have the tv service also the cost would be $55/month for just internet.

Originally posted by nodrog2
My monthly internet charge is 45.95. I also have cable tv,with the new 6412 box. My cost has been the same for many months. Should I (we) be getting a discount for having both services and if so, is my 45.95 cost including the discount?

its 42.95 if you have your own modem

Originally posted by Karyk
Seems like they could just use all the non-DVR units being returned by people for DVR units. ;) Well, yeah... but for anyone like my wife, a box is a no-go in the kitchen - and they are too expensive to just give away. Perhaps when they are fully depreciated...

Whats up with no 5.1 audio on Monday Night Football on 104???

YEAHHHHH Go SEAHAWKS!!!!

on a side note:

KOMO decided to flip the dolby 5.1 switch in the third quarter.....

5.1 OTA for the entire game. I wish the Hawks would flip the switch for a whole game....

go seahawks? man, they sucked bigtime - there's always the sonics...about the playoffs - they're done!

Originally posted by wezar
5.1 OTA for the entire game. I wish the Hawks would flip the switch for a whole game....
I watched OTA and the A/V receiver said it was DD 5.1 but the audio and my ears said it was more like stereo until 8:03 left in the third quarter, when, all of the sudden, the REAL DD 5.1 started, complete with crowd and stadium PA announcer in the rear speakers.

I noticed several times through the program before that they seemed to switch audio and quickly switch back, as if trying to get it to work.

I have a feeling that KOMO-DT was playing conservative and shipping us stereo over "DD 5.1" until they could confirm that the 5.1 channel assignments were correct, so that we would not have to listen to announcers in the left rear speaker again.

The third and fourth quarter audio remained DD 5.1. Too bad the Seahawks were not as stable to the end.

Originally posted by lojones
the PQ of SD is unwatchable, my wife actually got sick from the noisey and wiggly screen, which dropped the WAF a lot. cable directly to tv or though ReplayTV was just fine as it was through the old 6200.


That is odd, My 6412 renders video exactly like the 6200. Keep riding Comcast until they fix it. Video quality wise the 6412 I have is quite nice and way better than my Replay image wise.

But as I've ntoed before I have a very good cable feed.

Originally posted by IssaquahHD
He's saying just his internet is $46. This is the correct charge, if you didn't have the tv service also the cost would be $55/month for just internet.

Thanks, but is this the cost with their modem as someone indicated? I seem to be having a problem where they keep thinking they're renting me a modem.

I only watched the MNF off Comcast for a few minutes, I think during the second quarter. I had to go back to OTA because there was a slight pumping (up and down) of the volume that bothered me. Didn't anyone else notice that?

I don't know what was more painful, watching the Hawks fall apart (as usual) or the various glitches with MNF. I had the volume problems and numerous ticks and freezes throughout the game. I recorded Arrested Development in HD and there was not one single glitch during the entire show. Is this only an ABC HD problem, because this is what made me quit watching LOST in HD a while ago.

Originally posted by Karyk
Thanks, but is this the cost with their modem as someone indicated? I seem to be having a problem where they keep thinking they're renting me a modem.

$45.95 includes modem lease and cable multiproduct discount.

Originally posted by Malcolm_B
I don't know what was more painful, watching the Hawks fall apart (as usual) or the various glitches with MNF. I had the volume problems and numerous ticks and freezes throughout the game. I recorded Arrested Development in HD and there was not one single glitch during the entire show. Is this only an ABC HD problem, because this is what made me quit watching LOST in HD a while ago.

I'm not sure if it's an ABC HD only issue, but I'm pretty sure it's more common with ABC HD.

I'm a season ticket holder, so I go see the games at the stadium.

Thanks to the 6412, I am able to see, for the first time, a Seahawks home game in HD. Too bad about the loss, and the DD audio screw-up.

You would think that Paul Allen would be a strong supporter of getting the HD signal to all of the plasma screens in the Club section, but they were all showing SD, as they have been through all the Fox broadcasts this season.

Has anyone ever seen an HD signal on any of the plasmas going up in bars and restaurants in this area? I haven't seen a one.

Originally posted by Malcolm_B
I don't know what was more painful, watching the Hawks fall apart (as usual) or the various glitches with MNF. I had the volume problems and numerous ticks and freezes throughout the game. I recorded Arrested Development in HD and there was not one single glitch during the entire show. Is this only an ABC HD problem, because this is what made me quit watching LOST in HD a while ago.

I don't remember what channel Lost is on, but ABC through KOMO seems to have the most HD glitches. Last night was relatively good for KOMO HD. There have been many shows where it was completely unwatchable. That's why I posted a few days ago asking about the Vegas odds on KOMO screwing up the Audio.

LOST is on ABC, which is why I only watch it SD, although at least now I can record the HD and watch it later, after watching the SD version so I can see it without glitches.

Originally posted by wareagle
$45.95 includes modem lease and cable multiproduct discount.

The price should be $3 less if you provide your own modem: $42.95 with discount for cable TV and $52.95 without the discount.

These appear to be nationwide prices from all I have read here on the forum.

That makes sense. Thanks.

Originally posted by ianken
Each channel on digital cable is a MPEG2 video stream, the same video technology use din DVDs. Lets say there are 200 digital channels. This black box would need to tune, decode and output all of those 200 channels at once in analog form on cable.

Your current set top box has one MPEG2 decoder in it. This black box would need 200. It would also need 200 tuners and 200 RF modulators to take the decoded digital video and pout the analog version ona discrete frequency.

Perhaps some day you could stuff all this oin a few chunks of silicon but not today and not for the forseeable future. FWIW I think by the time it is possible to do this it will not be needed. All TVs will be digital capable and set tob boxes will be dirt cheap. You won;t stick one box on the house, but a cheap $20 box next to each TV.

My $.02

Hmm, that's odd. I could swear they were HD when I went to the first ever regular season game there.

Last night must have been painful.

Originally posted by Al Shing
I'm a season ticket holder, so I go see the games at the stadium.

Thanks to the 6412, I am able to see, for the first time, a Seahawks home game in HD. Too bad about the loss, and the DD audio screw-up.

You would think that Paul Allen would be a strong supporter of getting the HD signal to all of the plasma screens in the Club section, but they were all showing SD, as they have been through all the Fox broadcasts this season.

Has anyone ever seen an HD signal on any of the plasmas going up in bars and restaurants in this area? I haven't seen a one.

Originally posted by dbutner
Well, I'm somewhat glad to hear it is just not me because I went with the Comcast Dish Buy Back deal. The installer said I had 60 days to decide if I am unhappy with the PQ they will come back and install my dish back. I had this hooked up on Monday afternoon and I just called back today and told them to bring back my dish. The SD PQ on channels 1-99 is pure crap on my EDTV plasma, so I'm sticking with D*. Fortunately, I waited before calling to cancel D*. I'll let you know if I have any troubles getting my dish back - all I got connected with so far was a recording.

I was just about to do the same thing. I have Dish and I was going to go for the Comcast HD deal, mainly to get local stations and Mariner games in HD. I have good line of sight for OTA HD, so I could go that route if I wanted, but I need Comcast to get the Mariners in HD.

However, I'm not willing to give up the PQ of the basic channels.

Your experience confirmed my fears: PQ of SD still sucks on cable!

That was one of my main reasons to switch to Dish years ago.

I could keep my Dish for my upstairs TV's and get a Comcast HD box for my home theater. I never watch regular TV there except for football and baseball games, but that seems kind of crazy.

If I get the Dish HD package, I would need to get an antenna for the local stations and still no Mariners in HD. Bummer!

Decisions, decisions ....

Yes the picture quality of the analog channels sucks through the dvr. However this doesn't bother me because it ALREADY sucked. Watching SD programming on a front projector is a waste of time any way you cut it.

Originally posted by jsmbluecar
Yes the picture quality of the analog channels sucks through the dvr. However this doesn't bother me because it ALREADY sucked. Watching SD programming on a front projector is a waste of time any way you cut it.

Actually, I watch SD broadcasts on my front projector on a 92" diagonal screen and it looks good from Dish Network. Not as sharp as a DVD, but still very watchable. The only channels that are somewhat fuzzy are the local channels because those go through so many hops by the time Dish rebroadcasts them to me. However, I am sure they are MUCH clearer than the PQ on cable. That's why I dumped cable to begin with.

If you had Satelite TV you would immediately see an improvement in your basic channels. It sounds like most of you don't watch them but that's about all we watch -- other than DVD's. So the PQ of basic channels is very important to me.

So the bottom line is I have decided to stick with Dish and go OTA for local HD channels. The real bummer is that I still won't be able to watch the Mariners in HD becuase apparently only Comcast has those broadcasts.
My next step is to encourage the Mariners to cut a deal with Dish Network.

Originally posted by Al Shing
Has anyone ever seen an HD signal on any of the plasmas going up in bars and restaurants in this area? I haven't seen a one.

Last time I was at The Cliff House Restaurant in Tacoma they had HD running on their plasma. I asked about it at the time, since it was the first restaurant I noticed with HD, and they told me it was via Comcast using a cable card in the plasma. It looked very nice to my eyes.

Originally posted by SteveCoug
I could keep my Dish for my upstairs TV's and get a Comcast HD box for my home theater. I never watch regular TV there except for football and baseball games, but that seems kind of crazy.

Don't forget about Comcast's limited basic, which in Seattle is $12.95 plus $4.95 for the HD box. If you have Comcast Cable Internet, you get a $10 credit off that, reducing the cost to $7.90 a month.

I have DirecTV for my DTivos, OTA for my Fusion and MyHD cards, and Comcast limited basic with an HD box (which I seldom even turn on). And the Mariners in HD is included with that package (or at least it was this last year--it could be different next year).

Originally posted by SteveCoug
... However, I am sure they are MUCH clearer than the PQ on cable. That's why I dumped cable to begin with... IMHO, the PQ problem isn't so much the analog cable signal itself. It's not going to be as consistent & reliable as digital - but if you have proper signal strength and a decent tuner then the analog cable PQ *can* look pretty darn good. The real problem is these Motorola set-top boxes. First, their analog tuner seems to be pretty marginal compared with the tuner in my TVs and Replays. Second, the new DVR box (6412) makes the situation TEN TIMES WORSE by only letting you watch the MPEG-compressed version of the analog picture, not the original. To me, it would be acceptable if they simply added a "DVR Bypass" button on the 6412. That way if I didn't care about trick play, the analog PQ wouldn't be any worse than on the previous 6200 boxes - which wasn't that bad.

Originally posted by jimre
IMHO, the PQ problem isn't so much the analog cable signal itself. It's not going to be as consistent & reliable as digital - but if you have proper signal strength and a decent tuner then the analog cable PQ *can* look pretty darn good.

Another contributing factor can be what digital TV's do with an analog feed via the TV's built-in deinterlacing. As anyone who has done the comparison knows, the digital TV's display an analog signal much more poorly than an analog TV does. Obviously, the analog TV can't display HD though.

I look at it this way, the worse SD looks the better HD seems to look when I watch it. Now, if they can only get through an episode of LOST without a glitch!

Finally, there's another contributor: there's an extra splitter in that 6412, which will affect the analog signal strength compared to the 5100/6200. In my case, I also needed an extra splitter outside to accomodate my QAM board that I bought recently. Losing about 6db of signal over my SD analog channels made some totally unwatchable (for example channel 6, KONG, had snow and static on the audio!).

Because of that and tons of other reasons:
- No 30 sec skip or any good commercial skipping functionality
- No real interest to watch anything showing on digital/HD channels other than locals
- On demand not working anymore
- Comcast requiring of having digital classic + full analog package
- Constant annoying chirping noises
I decided to return my box earlier this week. I know things will get better, and in time, I may go grab it again. But in the meantime, I think I'm going to take advantage of using my QAM tuner on my HTPC to record local HD channels until an OpenCable solution comes.

On the bright side, my monthly Comcast cable bill went from $66 to $13/mo and my SD analog channels are watchable again! :)

One funny thing, I must have been the first one to return the DVR box in Redmond because the 2 girls there looked at me like I was an alien when they saw that I was returning a 6412. :)

-eric

Originally posted by ericjut
One funny thing, I must have been the first one to return the DVR box in Redmond because the 2 girls there looked at me like I was an alien when they saw that I was returning a 6412. :)

-eric

Your story makes me feel better. I didn't jump on one of these because I didn't want to jump my cable bill up, and am not quite ready to ditch DirecTV. Now I feel better. Thanks! :)

My SD channels look just as good with the 6412 as they did with the 5100, and you'd have a better chance of getting Charlton Heston to give up all his firearms than you would getting me to give the 6412 back.

wareagle,

I gather you don't have any other ways to PVR HD, right? I would probably feel the same way if I didn't either.

But right now, even the buggy Fusion software looks like a better solution to me. And certainly a cheaper one: my tuner card is going to pay for itself in less than 4 months with the savings over my Comcast bill. :D

And as far as your SD channels go, I'm glad you don't have a problem with that, as it seems like you're getting a strong cable signal to your house. Unfortunately, as we clearly see in this thread, not everybody is in the same situation...

-eric

Originally posted by ericjut
But in the meantime, I think I'm going to take advantage of using my QAM tuner on my HTPC to record local HD channels until an OpenCable solution comes.

Isn't the new Sony box already shipping? I thought I read recently that it's available now.

Originally posted by ericjut

I gather you don't have any other ways to PVR HD, right? I would probably feel the same way if I didn't either.

That's correct, and I prefer the integrated solution to an external one, since almost all my recording is for the purpose of time-shifting rather than archiving.


But right now, even the buggy Fusion software looks like a better solution to me. And certainly a cheaper one: my tuner card is going to pay for itself in less than 4 months with the savings over my Comcast bill. :D

And as far as your SD channels go, I'm glad you don't have a problem with that, as it seems like you're getting a strong cable signal to your house. Unfortunately, as we clearly see in this thread, not everybody is in the same situation...

Has anyone had any success in getting Comcast to upgrade the cable installation or otherwise improve the signal?

My only real complaints are with the ridiculous ABC/KOMO HD glitches and the equally ridiculous Cox/KIRO/Comcast feud.

Originally posted by danstone
Isn't the new Sony box already shipping? I thought I read recently that it's available now.

Looks like it's due in stock 'soon' but isn't actually shipping quite yet.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00067TYFO/ref=pd_sbs_e_1/002-2937766-5012841?v=glance&s=electronics

Originally posted by wareagle
Has anyone had any success in getting Comcast to upgrade the cable installation or otherwise improve the signal?

This is the reason that I willingly paid the $15.00 upgrade fee rather than pickup a box in the cable store. I wanted to be satisfied with the picture quality before the tech left my house. They also measured the signal strength at the outlet before proceeding with the box swap.

Originally posted by wareagle
My SD channels look just as good with the 6412 as they did with the 5100, and you'd have a better chance of getting Charlton Heston to give up all his firearms than you would getting me to give the 6412 back. Are you talking about analog channels? Cause that's the problem. SD digital channels are fine.

Originally posted by jimre
Are you talking about analog channels? Cause that's the problem. SD digital channels are fine.

Yes, analog. It looks OK. The one Fox Sports program I was able to compare on their SD digital and analog channels was essentially the same (I had to record them on the DVR in order to compare).

My PQ seems to be the same whether I go through the box or direct in throught a splitter. I think what I am seeing is that the HD picture is so good that all else pales in compairison.

As you all know, the HD quality control of ABC shows (Lost, Housewives, Boston Legal) is horrible. Does anyone have an address for the engineering departments of KOMO and ABC so I can e-mail my complaints? I suggest we start a letter writing campaign to let them know that this is unacceptable. Comcast really should go to bat for us since we are paying extra for bad service.

I sent the following email to comments@komotv4.com and abc.audience.relations@abc.com (couldn't find an email for any tech people)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't know where the problem lies (ABC or KOMO), but the HDTV quality control here in Seattle is unacceptable. There is almost never a program which is not ruined by periods of audio and video dropouts. This has driven many of us to give up watching your programs in HD, since the technical problems are so bad. The same problems have been reported over-the-air, but I have contacted Comcast in hopes that they can support us in our efforts to get what we pay them for. It's not just me, as everyone contributing to this forum has the same problem:
http://*******.com/5bwka
(this forum)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I also sent a similar email to the only contact available on the Comcast site, and received the expected response:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for contacting Comcast Cable.

Thank you for contacting us with your HDTV signal.

I apologize that while I am unable to resolve this for you via e-mail, I
have forwarded your concerns and will have an Account Executive contact
you as soon as possible.

We appreciate your patience and understanding, and look forward to being
able to properly assist you.

If you have any questions or concerns, please respond to this email.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any more questions. You may
respond directly to this email. Thank you for your interest in Comcast.

Thank you for choosing Comcast.

Help us improve our e-mail customer support! Please click here to take a
quick survey. http://www.comcastsupport.com/emailsurvey.asp?caseid=5239343

Sincerely,

Dawn
Comcast Online Customer Support
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If anyone contacts me as a result of either of these I'll pass on whatever comes of it. If a Comcast person calls, I'll be sure to push the KIRO-HD button too.

rverginia
[My PQ seems to be the same whether I go through the box or direct in throught a splitter. I think what I am seeing is that the HD picture is so good that all else pales in compairison.]

You win the prize! There is no question in my mind that what you say is true and identifies what is really going on.

So today, I have lost all of my recordings, all of them, and all scheduled. Also I have the space used up still, has anyone had this problem? Is there anyway to get them back, they still seem to be on the drive?

After rebooting the box (unplugging and plugging it back) got the recordings back but lost the all of the scheduled recordings. This seems to be a known issue.

Originally posted by rverginia
My PQ seems to be the same whether I go through the box or direct in throught a splitter. I think what I am seeing is that the HD picture is so good that all else pales in compairison.

I doubt it. I don't have the DVR version of the Moto box, but I do have the HD version. The analog channels through that box don't even begin to compare to the analog channels through DirecTV. I haven't tried hooking Comcast up directly to my TV to see if its tuner can do a better job.

Originally posted by sonu55
So today, I have lost all of my recordings, all of them, and all scheduled. Also I have the space used up still, has anyone had this problem? Is there anyway to get them back, they still seem to be on the drive?

we lost all of our stuff today as well. could you point me to where others are discussing this?

Ditto here on losing the recordings, I did restart the box by pulling the power plug. Now all my recordings are asking me for my PIN number. Does this go away after awhile?

Add one more person that lost recording and scheduled shows. Unpluging the box restored the -previously recorded shows-- but as above, lost the scheduled recordings.

Originally posted by Karyk
I....The analog channels through that box don't even begin to compare to the analog channels through DirecTV. ... but DirecTV doesn't have any analog channels.... :)

chalk up another one for losing recordings and all the other good stuff that comcast has brought upon us!!! Directv is looking so good right now!!

Surprise! I actually received a nice response from Don Wilkinson of KOMO, with an explanation of what they believe the problem to be:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Sam -

We are painfully aware of the HDTV problems and are pressing hard to get it repaired. It is extremely troubling to me as well. KOMO has devoted a lot of resources to create and broadcast local HDTV programming, and to have these problems with network pass through that should normally be a 'slam dunk' is quite distressing.

The ABC network has two different program channels on C-band satellite. The first transponder is the regular Standard Definition network service that is used by KOMO during non-HDTV programming times. The second transponder carries only the High Definition version of the same program. Those stations that are not equipped to broadcast HDTV stick with SD, while KOMO and other stations switch to the second, HD feed. If there is a failure of the digital transmission system, the SD video can be switched in, at least providing a 4x3 version of the program. This is what happened at the beginning of "Lost" this week.

KOMO has been experiencing periodic breakup and momentary loss of audio on the HD satellite feed. A lot of effort has been spent trying to identify the problem. Some changes were made in the studio digital processing to try to resolve the breakup, and it appears likely that the changes resulted in the audio problems. Our techs are going through the system to correct the audio issues.

The breakup has been very troubling. It occurs in groups, 6-8 breaks spaced several seconds apart, then goes away only to return a half hour or so later. We are looking into the possibility of interference from a military airborne radar, such as AWACS, that operate on a nearby frequency.

Rest assured that we are doing everything we can to get these issues straightened out.

Best regards,

Don Wilkinson
Fisher Communications
KOMO-TV, KOMO-DT

Originally posted by jimre
but DirecTV doesn't have any analog channels.... :)

I know you're joking, but I did mean the locals that would be analog OTA.

I'm not sure at what point in the process they are converted to digital, but I'm pretty sure they are not sent to DirecTV in digital format. Back when they were building the new federal courthouse, the path of the signal was affected for KING & KONG, causing ghosting that I assume means it was analog at that point.

It is somewhat of a mystery to me why Comcast's locals are so bad. I've seen locals out on a small time cable system on Hood Canal that looked a lot better than what Comcast delivers within the city limits of Seattle. Perhaps the 20" TV was simply masking the defects, but I didn't look at the picture out there and think: "I should tell these people to get DirecTV" at least for the picture.

Many of the Seattle local stations send their signals over fiber links to the DirecTV POP site in downtown Seattle. I assume that the signals are transmitted digitally over the fiber, meaning that they leave the studios as digital. (If someone knows better, please speak up.)

A year or so ago, we saw increasing deterioration of channel 9 and a couple others on DirecTV Seattle locals. At the time, building construction was gradually blocking the line of site between the DirecTV POP site (at the Westin Building) and the Capitol Hill transmitters. The solution was to abandon the antenna at the Westin building and replace it with fiber feeds.

If you look carefully, you can see ghosts and other OTA artifacts on some DirecTV Seattle locals. KONG is one example of that.

Lately, I have been watching and recording OTA digital SD and HD for the Seattle locals, so I am probably not current on the status of the SD feeds to DirecTV.

I want to know which stations send their signal via fiber. I see a noticible difference between KOMO and KIRO's analog PQ. I have ghosts on KOMO, while KIRO is clean.

Originally posted by artshotwell
I want to know which stations send their signal via fiber. I see a noticible difference between KOMO and KIRO's analog PQ. I have ghosts on KOMO, while KIRO is clean.

The discussion was of which locals send their signal to DirecTV via a digital feed. Ghosts on Comcast's systems could indicate leakage anywhere in the system (including bad cabling in your home). I haven't noticed any ghosts in my Comcast analog locals, but I really haven't watched them much either because they look so bad for other reasons.