Originally posted by Karyk
The discussion was of which locals send their signal to DirecTV via a digital feed. Ghosts on Comcast's systems could indicate leakage anywhere in the system (including bad cabling in your home). I haven't noticed any ghosts in my Comcast analog locals, but I really haven't watched them much either because they look so bad for other reasons.
I don't suspect the wiring in my home. It's new. And, it's unlikely we'd pick up ghosts here, anyway. Ghosts are delayed signals coming on a time delay. No chance of picking anything up off the air in Anacortes.

I don't know how Seattle signals get to Skagit County. The headend up at Skagit Regional Airport outside Burlington leaves me with the impression that it's off-air, what with all the single-channel VHF antennas. But, I certainly don't know. They could be left from an earlier cable owner. For the heck of it, I'll check KOMO's picture at the Comcast office in Burlington.

I just know for me...KOMO (single ghost) and CBC (multiple ghosts) are the worst, followed by KING & KONG. All other analog and digital signals look very good to excellent.

I didn't lose any of my recordings, although it didn't record LOST for me; if someone is watching the same channel that is being recorded, will it not record? I'm one of those guys who never read manuals.

It will, indeed, record if you're watching the same channel.

Thanks, Art! Makes me go "Hmmmmm..." I have so many things scheduled that I really can't remember if the thing recorded them or not as well!

Originally posted by artshotwell
I don't suspect the wiring in my home. It's new. And, it's unlikely we'd pick up ghosts here, anyway. Ghosts are delayed signals coming on a time delay. No chance of picking anything up off the air in Anacortes.

I don't know how Seattle signals get to Skagit County. The headend up at Skagit Regional Airport outside Burlington leaves me with the impression that it's off-air, what with all the single-channel VHF antennas. But, I certainly don't know. They could be left from an earlier cable owner. For the heck of it, I'll check KOMO's picture at the Comcast office in Burlington.

I just know for me...KOMO (single ghost) and CBC (multiple ghosts) are the worst, followed by KING & KONG. All other analog and digital signals look very good to excellent.

Art:

Earlier, I was describing the fiber-based signal paths from stations to DirecTV, not Comcast.

I have no personal knowledge of how signals are delivered to Comcast, but I do have basic cable and I suspect, from what I see, that all are received OTA at the Comcast head end (for our area here near Renton).

There is a big timing difference between ghosts received at the antenna at the head end site and ghosts caused by intrusion, either in the Comcast facilities near my home, or in the inside wiring at my home (which is 30 years old and not perfect). I have seen examples of both, with the "close-to-home" ghosts showing noticably larger offsets (i.e., greater time differences) from the main signal.

I have performed cable picture quality tests by connecting the Comcast feed directly to one TV, bypassing all wiring inside my home. I see noise and ghosts (both kinds) on the local channels, and interference on some cable-only channels (I believe these are caused by UHF channel intrusion, based on comparing local UHF channel frequencies with the impacted cable channels).

We have NEVER had clean analog channels from Comcast (or their predecessors) at our house. That, plus numerous lengthy outages, drove me to DirecTV in the first place. I kept basic cable only because I have Comcast internet/cable modem service and the net cost for basic cable is only $3 per month because of the discounts for the bundle. Plus, my wife likes to watch NorthWest Cable News and that is only available from cable, not OTA or satellite.

I would like to see KONG perhaps add a digital subchannel for NWCN so I could disconnect my cable feed and simplify program selection on my TVs in the house. I say that for KONG because they rarely broadcast any HD programs.

That's a great idea for KONG to carry NWCN on a second digital channel!! Okay, on fiber & DirecTV. My experience with DirecTV (and I had it 'til last July) is that at least some channels were off the air. I remember when a downtown Seattle building was under construction, screwing up the signals of at least 3 stations.

Originally posted by burger23
Add one more person that lost recording and scheduled shows. Unpluging the box restored the -previously recorded shows-- but as above, lost the scheduled recordings.

I gotta think somethings going on here, my box did the same thing yesterday . Powered down and all my recordings came back but scheduled recordings and series setups went bye bye.

My unit is on a UPS so I know for a fact I didn't loose power.

Pretty irritating IMO.

Originally posted by wareagle
Surprise! I actually received a nice response from Don Wilkinson of KOMO, with an explanation of what they believe the problem to be
Thanks for sharing this...

I do all my timeshifting with one of my 3 Replays, because I never know what I might want to archive. That being the case, are there any compelling reasons I should have them swap out my 5100 for the 6412?

Thanks,

Tim

Originally posted by tluxon
I do all my timeshifting with one of my 3 Replays, because I never know what I might want to archive. That being the case, are there any compelling reasons I should have them swap out my 5100 for the 6412?

Thanks,

Tim

HD time shifting and tricks.

Originally posted by artshotwell
That's a great idea for KONG to carry NWCN on a second digital channel!!

As I recall, a cable company, or cable companies, own NWCN, and use it as a draw toward cable. Unlikely it will appear on DirecTV or OTA.

Originally posted by wareagle
HD time shifting and tricks.
What are the "tricks" that the 6412 does over the 5100?

Originally posted by Karyk
As I recall, a cable company, or cable companies, own NWCN, and use it as a draw toward cable. Unlikely it will appear on DirecTV or OTA.
Actually KING owns NWCN, but there could be contractural limitations that prevent it from being broadcast.

Originally posted by tluxon
What are the "tricks" that the 6412 does over the 5100?

Everything that depends on the DVR aspects, such as live pause, replay, etc.

Power went out yesterday and didn't come back on until 9:35PM. I came home and found that the 6412 started recording both Desperate Housewives and Survivor from that point on, and continued on with the scheduled 10PM recordings.

I was concerned that in this event, the DVR would just forget the scheduled recordings, but in this case, it did exactly what you want it to do.

Originally posted by Al Shing
Power went out yesterday and didn't come back on until 9:35PM. I came home and found that the 6412 started recording both Desperate Housewives and Survivor from that point on, and continued on with the scheduled 10PM recordings.

I was concerned that in this event, the DVR would just forget the scheduled recordings, but in this case, it did exactly what you want it to do.

That stuff is typically stored on hard drive for most DVRs.

I don't know how long it takes a Moto DVR to reboot, but you might want to invest in a cheap UPS. On a DTivo, losing power for 5 seconds means losing about 5 minutes of show.

I second the suggestion to add UPS for your DVR.

My little UPS units were good investments for my DVR's. I saw about 20 or so power hits yesterday, the shortest being a split second and the longest about 2 seconds.

We usually turn off all computers and unneeded electronic devices, but since the DVR's run all the time, UPS is the way to go. For satellite, I also power the multiswitch from one of the UPS's so our DirecTiVo recordings can continue without interruption for almost an hour.

But, the biggest benefit of the UPS's is to keep the DVR's from reacting to unstable power conditions.

I would have preferred a single, larger UPS but I could not pass up a sale price of $15 each on a closeout for the smaller 320 VA units.

There is a known issue with the 6412 and reboots. This has happened to many, but most certainly, not all of us. No one is certainly why this happens. The way to restore is to unplug power for 10 seconds, and reboot. All recorded data is restored immediately (as it should be since it is written to the hard drive). But the Scheduled Shows is lost and has to be rebuilt, which would indicate that this is NOT written to the hard drive

What UPS's do you use?

Originally posted by Budget_HT
I second the suggestion to add UPS for your DVR.

My little UPS units were good investments for my DVR's. I saw about 20 or so power hits yesterday, the shortest being a split second and the longest about 2 seconds.

We usually turn off all computers and unneeded electronic devices, but since the DVR's run all the time, UPS is the way to go. For satellite, I also power the multiswitch from one of the UPS's so our DirecTiVo recordings can continue without interruption for almost an hour.

But, the biggest benefit of the UPS's is to keep the DVR's from reacting to unstable power conditions.

IssaquahHD:

I'll have to look when I get home--I can't remember the brand, but I recall that they are rated at 320 VA. I would rather have had a single, larger UPS but I got these on a closeout price of $15 each.

I guess the size is really all I needed to know. Do you have one Directivo plugged into each of these UPS? If so how long do they typically last? Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by Budget_HT
IssaquahHD:

I'll have to look when I get home--I can't remember the brand, but I recall that they are rated at 320 VA. I would rather have had a single, larger UPS but I got these on a closeout price of $15 each.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/television/2002117542_comcast.html

Council to vote on Comcast franchise

By Keith Ervin
Seattle Times staff reporter

An agreement to renew Comcast's cable-television franchise in unincorporated King County would reserve more channels for government, education and nonprofit programming than a controversial agreement that was negotiated but set aside last year.
However, some critics believe the agreement in principle — which comes up for a vote today by the Metropolitan King County Council — does too much for the company and too little for the public.

Under the five-year agreement, the company would give the county what one observer called a "signing bonus" of $1.2 million for making concessions on public-television programming and how data is sent and received between Internet providers and users.

Cable-television customers would pay less in fees for public, educational and government purposes; those fees would drop from the current $1 a month to 55 cents per month over the final three years of the deal.

King County Councilwoman Jane Hague, who supports the agreement, said it will give the county and other agencies the option to put noncommercial programming on 18 channels and to use 6 megahertz of data "bandwidth" when Comcast programming becomes entirely digital.

"That bandwidth is just like gold," said Hague, R-Kirkland.

The expanded bandwidth, which equates to broader access to Comcast's fiber-optic network, could be used to create eight to 10 more digital cable channels, offer high-definition television or operate "data-enhanced" video.

Data-enhanced video could allow viewers of a King County Council meeting, for instance, to download the text of an ordinance while watching the council debate the measure.

The 18 potential channels are fewer than the 25 possible in the current franchise agreement. Only nine channels are currently used.

Hague also touted Comcast's willingness to let its customers exchange data, such as e-mail messages, directly with government and nonprofit organizations through an arrangement known as "peering."

Peering, which traditionally does not involve any cash payments, allows users of one data network to exchange information with users of another network directly, rather than paying to route their data through intermediary carriers.

Without so-called peering, an e-mail message sent from downtown Seattle to Bellevue could be routed at higher cost through San Francisco, New York or elsewhere.

But critics of the franchise agreement say it is a retreat from the much bolder peering provisions of the existing agreement. That agreement allows for-profit members of the Seattle Internet Exchange to peer with Comcast.

Seattle Internet Exchange members say the company has failed to honor their requests for peering arrangements.

The County Council was on the verge of approving a Comcast franchise renewal a year ago, but advocates of free peering and public-access television persuaded the council to review and renegotiate the agreement.

The agreement now before the council provides more potential channels for public, educational and government (PEG) programming than last year's failed deal, but it does nothing to satisfy proponents of free and open peering. For-profit Internet service providers could connect with Comcast for a fee.

Jeff Sterling, who helped King County negotiate its existing franchise agreement with Comcast predecessor AT&T Broadband, said the new agreement would reward the cable company for failing to meet its peering obligation under the existing contract.

"The little guys are getting squeezed out of the market by the phone company and the cable company," Sterling said. "This is just another nail in the coffin for the smaller Internet service providers that really are here to provide the support and keep the money in the local economy. It's very sad."

Comcast spokesman Steve Kipp said last January that the company still intended to peer with Seattle Internet Exchange members, but that peering had been delayed because of issues related to a corporate merger.

Kipp said Friday the company would have no comment on the pending franchise agreement until the County Council has acted on it.

Hague said the county might have found itself in litigation if it had tried to require Comcast to provide peering under the current contract.

The new agreement, she said, is a good deal both for nonprofits and commercial ventures. "If you are a nonprofit, you can essentially have open access for free, and if you are a commercial vendor you can have it for a small price. I think everybody wins."

Keith Ervin: 206-464-2105 or kervin@seattletimes.com

Copyright © 2004 The Seattle Times Company

Originally posted by burger23
But the Scheduled Shows is lost and has to be rebuilt, which would indicate that this is NOT written to the hard drive

Well maybe I should have said well designed DVRs write the information to disc. :D

Seriously, that just sounds like a bug. I wonder if the information would be lost if just unplugged, or just during this bug. If the latter it would indicate it's being wiped from the disc somehow.

Originally posted by IssaquahHD
I guess the size is really all I needed to know. Do you have one Directivo plugged into each of these UPS? If so how long do they typically last? Thanks for the info.

I think the 350s last about an hour on a DTivo. You can pick up the APC brand ones pretty cheap after rebates with some frequency.

Originally posted by Karyk
I think the 350s last about an hour on a DTivo. You can pick up the APC brand ones pretty cheap after rebates with some frequency.

Mine are labeled "CyberPower." One is a model 320SL and the other is a 300SL. I don't think these are top-of-the-line, but they meet my basic needs.

I have not actually run them down to see how long the DirecTiVos will run. The longest I have seen them run is 35 minutes, after which I plugged them into my portable generator.

On one I have my wife's SAT-T60 along with the Spaun 5x8 multiswitch.

On the other I have my HR10-250.

My main interest was protection from power hits, which we usually only see when we have high winds in the area.

Originally posted by Budget_HT
Mine are labeled "CyberPower." One is a model 320SL and the other is a 300SL. I don't think these are top-of-the-line, but they meet my basic needs.

You can get an APC unit for under $20.00 with rebates, but they aren't the same as their more expensive units (for one thing, they put out a ton of X10 interference). I sort of wonder though how well any of these cheap UPS's actually protect anything from power surges. If I had to guess, I'd guess that getting a brand name doesn't necessarily offer more protection. I was just hoping for a fresher battery.

I remember the magazines used to test surge protectors to see how well they protect things, but I haven't seen similar tests for years.

Our power went off for 4 hours yesterday all up and down our street, and when it came back on I had lost nothing on the unit and my scheduled shows are still there. Good to know.

King County extends contract with Comcast

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER STAFF

The King County Council yesterday approved a five-year extension to the 10-year cable television franchise agreement between Comcast Cable and the county, currently covering about 80,000 customers in unincorporated areas.

The new agreement includes a payment to the county of $1.2 million.

Under the extension agreement, customers would see little immediate change.

King County would give up the use of two public, educational and government channels, one of which is now unused and one of which, TVW Cable 23, would be reclassified as a commercial channel.

However, when Comcast converts to an all-digital system in the local market, a conversion that could occur within two years, King County will gain the use of 18 digital channels for public use and 6 megahertz of data bandwidth that could be split into eight to 10 more channels.

http://www.metrokc.gov/council/news/2004/1204/JH_Comcast_Cable.htm

Comcast Franchise Extension Provides 18 Public Channels and Extra Data Bandwidth in Anticipation of All-Digital Cable

The Metropolitan King County Council today approved a five-year extension to its existing 10-year cable television franchise agreement between Comcast Cable and King County, currently covering about 80,000 customers in unincorporated King County. The new agreement, which caps two-and-a-half years of negotiations, prepares the County for the impending age of all-digital cable with 18 digital public channels, six Megahertz of bandwidth for digitally-enhanced video or two-way video/audio communication, and a payment to the County of $1.2 million.
“A decade ago, the Council made an important decision to negotiate rather than litigate,” said Councilmember Jane Hague, Vice-Chair of the Labor, Operations and Technology Committee. “This choice brought our 125,000 unincorporated area residents the opportunity to access cable much faster than if we had taken Comcast to court, and we were able to negotiate one of the most favorable contracts in the nation for the size of our subscriber base.”

Under the extension agreement, customers would see no immediate visible changes. King County would give up the use of 2 Public, Educational and Government (PEG) Channels, one of which is currently unused and one of which, TVW Cable 23, would be reclassified as a “commercial” channel. However, when Comcast converts to an all-digital system in the local market, a conversion that could occur within two years, King County will gain the use of 18 digital channels for PEG use and 6 Megahertz of data bandwidth that could be split into eight to 10 more channels, used for transmission of high-definition broadcasting or two-way video/audio communication, or used for “data-enhanced video.” With data-enhanced video, a cable TV viewer could watch a King County Council meeting and download the text of an ordinance being discussed by clicking on an icon, while continuing to watch to the program — much like viewing a Web page.

“We believe we have a contract that takes us into a rapidly changing future,” said Hague. “When the digital conversion occurs, we will have 18 digital PEG channels, plus six Megahertz of bandwidth for digitally-enhanced video or high-definition TV as well as $1.2 million for our bleeding general fund. This will clearly open new public forums for dialogue for subscribers in unincorporated King County and it continues our national leadership in cable contract negotiations established in 1995.”

The Council last December deferred action on the franchise extension after hearing public concerns, and sent staff back to the negotiating table to ensure that the County had done its full due diligence. Over the past year the County was able to hold onto the gains it had already negotiated under the current mixed analog and digital system now operated by Comcast, and prepared the county for the new all-digital age by winning provisions for the 18 PEG channels and 6MHz of bandwidth that should meet subscriber and PEG needs well beyond 2010. The new franchise agreement will expire on Feb. 16, 2010, at which time the County will be required to initiate a full renewal process for the franchise.

“Last year, we took the advice of concerned citizens and sent our staff back to the negotiating table. We also spent a tremendous amount of time listening to public testimony, researching comparable contracts and acquiring expert industry opinions to assure that the County is getting the best deal possible and is prepared for the all-digital future,” said Hague. “The people of our unincorporated communities are the beneficiaries of the council’s due diligence and have a flexible format for public access in an ever-changing cable industry.”

Over the past two-and-a-half years of negotiations, the Comcast franchise extension was examined by Councilmembers 10 times in three different Council committees and before the full Council, most of those involving public comment and staff briefings; heard in two publicly-advertised formal hearings; and has been the subject of two public meetings hosted by Councilmembers to allow for extended informal dialog. Councilmembers and staff have also held many meetings with individuals and small groups to listen to the public’s thoughts.

Read more about this legislation on the King County Council’s
LEGISEARCH system at and type in “2002-0556”

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467203

This thread talks about the recordings being lost, page 19 is where it starts on this topic.

Has anyone heard anything about Comcast's plans for carrying ESPN2-HD, whose debut is less than 3 weeks from now? Looks like mostly college basketball initially. The program schedule for the first few weeks is at the bottom of this site:
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/espnhd/index

I have no idea, but I'd rather have TNT-HD first.

Originally posted by Roto
I have no idea, but I'd rather have TNT-HD first.

And I'd rather have KIRO-HD than both of them, but that's not likely.

From TitanTV site:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NBC announced that it will begin broadcasting its entire late-night lineup in HDTV next year. The network was the first to broadcast a nightly series in high definition when it began HD production of “The Tonight Show with Jay Leno” in 1999.

Additionally, two of the network's annual signature holiday specials, “The Macy's Fourth of July Fireworks Spectacular” and the “The Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade” will also be broadcast in HD beginning in 2005.

The late-night conversion is scheduled to begin in April 2005 when NBC's “Late Night with Conan O'Brien” converts to HDTV. “Saturday Night Live” will convert to HD with the fall 2005-06 season premiere, as will “Last Call with Carson Daly,” which shares “SNL's” studio.

Originally posted by wareagle
From TitanTV site:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NBC announced that it will begin broadcasting its entire late-night lineup in HDTV next year. The network was the first to broadcast a nightly series in high definition when it began HD production of “The Tonight Show with Jay Leno” in 1999.

Additionally, two of the network's annual signature holiday specials, “The Macy's Fourth of July Fireworks Spectacular” and the “The Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade” will also be broadcast in HD beginning in 2005.

The late-night conversion is scheduled to begin in April 2005 when NBC's “Late Night with Conan O'Brien” converts to HDTV. “Saturday Night Live” will convert to HD with the fall 2005-06 season premiere, as will “Last Call with Carson Daly,” which shares “SNL's” studio.

This is already discussed in the HD programming forum here, with a thread started by Ken H.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=481985

not enough time to keep up with them all.

I have DirecTV with an over the air antenna so I don't know anything about Comcast. My doctor at the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance said that she wanted to get a universal remote with large easy to use buttons for her Comcast HDTV receiver for her father who I guess can't see very well close in. She told me that Comcast receivers can not be controlled by third party remotes. Is this true? If so is there anything she can do for her father? I have no idea if she could change over to over the air and satellite.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Al

Not true. I use my Sony remote to control the Comcast 6412 STB.

art is right...

I control mine with a combo of pronto remotes and pronot Neo remotes.....

works fine

Rich

Finding the codes might be tricky. Seems like I used a General Instruments cable box code to enable my Sony remote.

Originally posted by Roto
I have no idea, but I'd rather have TNT-HD first.

I would rather have UniversalHD. I would rather have HDNET the most, but that is the least likely.

My view is that any new national channel is a plus. Comcast doesn't add national channels very quickly, so all we can do is tell them what we want and hope something happens.

Hopefully after the holidays we'll see some action.

Rich N.

Raidbuck,

Do you live in Seattle or Baltimore?

Are the Comcast national HD channels consistent in all Comcast markets?

Thanks for your replies.

Is it likely that someone could come up with a code for my doctor if I find out exactly what Comcast receiver she has and what remote she wants to use it with? I think I will see her early next week.

Al

At 9 am my box shut down requiring a power up from remote. Is this an aberration or should I expect this occasionally?

OK guys, I'm hearing that the problem with analog PQ on the 6412's is already on the radar at Comcast in a big way. Digital simulcasting of analog channels will ramp-up in mid 2005. Apparently they're already changing the way they process the signals so that bandwidth is used more efficiently. They're also deleting all PPV 800-series channels and east coast feeds of premiums since this stuff is more-or-less duplicated by OnDemand. I don't know how they'll decide which channels to do digital simulcasting on first. They can't do it on all of them until they start cutting analog channels (this is not on the short-term horizon).

Originally posted by Budget_HT
Raidbuck,

Do you live in Seattle or Baltimore?

Are the Comcast national HD channels consistent in all Comcast markets?

I live in Baltimore County.

The national channels are the same for all Comcast markets, but some areas don't get them as fast as others because of infrastructure. That's why we got DiscoveryHD on June 16, but others had to wait weeks or months. We are lucky here in that our system has sufficient bandwidth for the channels. We also got the 6412 last month while others are just getting them delivered this month, but I got a 6208 in May.

I would imagine that all locals that are broadcasting in HD and will give Comcast the signal are on by now. We have everything but Fox because of Sinclair and many markets are missing 1 or more local HD channels because of lack of agreements on compensation.

Rich N.

My apologies if this has been asked and answered, I have searched. Where can I find a list of digital vs. analog channels?

I have SD DirecTivo and got an HDTV this weekend. Rather than pony up the $1,000 for the HD DirecTivo, I figure I'll give Comcast a try again and rent the 6412; they're coming out tomorrow and taking my equipment away (saving me $30 a month for 16 months and I'd be replacing both the dish and the receiver if I upgrade to HD with DirecTV anyway).

But it troubles me the concerns about the analog picture on the 6412. I'm signed up for basic cable with the digital classic package, but Comcast's website sucks and won't tell me what's included with what. Or, I'm an idiot and can't figure out how to get it to tell me.

Originally posted by ntaylor
My apologies if this has been asked and answered, I have searched. Where can I find a list of digital vs. analog channels? Analog channels = anything < 100.
Digital channels = anything > 100.

For detailed channel info, Comcast's web site seems to be missing data for some areas, including mine (North Bend). Other areas are listed fine, and except maybe for public-access stuff, I believe the channel lineup is pretty much the same all over the Seattle area. Try comcast.com, Support&Service->My Channel Lineup - and set your zip code to Redmond (98052), for example. That seems to work.

Jimre, thanks for your help.

Looks like I'm out of luck on all my local sports on FSN.

Originally posted by ntaylor
Jimre, thanks for your help.

Looks like I'm out of luck on all my local sports on FSN.

Basic cable should include Fox Sports Net on 30. But with Comcast's indeterminate system, who knows what you'll get?

Originally posted by ntaylor
Jimre, thanks for your help.

Looks like I'm out of luck on all my local sports on FSN. You'll get the local FSN Northwest affiliate (ch 30) but you won't get all the OTHER regional FSN channels, which IIRC you do get on DirecTV.

I'm just concerned about the picture quality on channel 30 with what I'm reading about analog and the 6412. I don't get (or at least don't watch) any other regional sports channels with DirecTV, but having grown accustomed to the DVR capability over the last two years, I'm addicted to it.

Channel 30 is one of the worst channels for me. The game last night was so bad it was almost unwatchable. It wasn't a whole lot better when I switched over to the TIVO however. They could sure use a HD channel.

I've pretty much given up on Comcast providing HD CBS. However, I'm wondering, is it possible for Comcast to provide at least a digital feed of CBS that would provide us with a better picture?

I'm sorry to hear that some of you are getting poor reception on FSN. Many of the best sporting events are on FSN, so I'd agree it can't come in HD soon enough. However, so far I've had great FSN recordings when using one of my Replay tuners and both of my digital cable tuners.

I've got a cable guy bringing a 6412 tomorrow and I've got a couple questions.

1) I've been timeshifting and archiving HD shows from the Motorola 5100 to a ReplayTV (in downconverted 480i, of course), and I hope to be able to continue that practice. Will I be able to simply replace the 5100 with the 6412 and still have the Replay record from one of its tuners? Or is it going to be fairly straightforward - and therefore more practical - to leave the Replay out of the equation and extract shows from the 6412 using the firewire port?

2) I'm debating whether or not I should keep the 5100 and relocate it in place of the non-HD motorola box we have. Do we pay more for the 5100?

3) My wife will be home when the installer comes, but I may not be able to be there. When we had the 5100 installed, I had to fix it myself after the installer left because he didn't know how to integrate it into my system. Will swapping the 6412 in for the 5100 be simple enough for the installer to get it right, or should I have him just leave the box and plan to set it up when I get home?

4) Is there anything else I should be concerned about that might not be immediately obvious?

Thanks!

Tim

Originally posted by artseattle
I've pretty much given up on Comcast providing HD CBS. However, I'm wondering, is it possible for Comcast to provide at least a digital feed of CBS that would provide us with a better picture?

Well, we'll soon have a test of my theory. Kiro HD just spent a week off the air to do an upgrade. I haven't noticed, but I suspect they will soon (if not now) be able to inject local commercials. I know there are theories of a dispute between the two companies, but I suspect the dispute will disappear shortly after the local commercials appear. Time will tell.

tluxon,

1) You should be able to just replace your 5100 with the new 6412, but the replay will record only what's currently showing on your screen (you don't have full control of the 2 tuners basically). BTW, Firewire works the same way, as it is primarilly an output for viewing.

2) Keeping the 5100 will basically cost you $10 extra ($5 cable box fee + $5 Advanced box fee). Note that you don't have to pay the "cable box fee" on your first box because it's included in your digital package.

3) The installer will want to "activate" the box, so he/she will most probably want to install the box at that moment. You could ask your wife to tell the installer not to bother setting all the sound and extra outputs so that you could do it yourself later. I think as long as he/she can see something, it'll be fine.

4) Make sure that VOD is fully working (not just going to the VOD menu). Also verify the analog channel outputs. Unfortunately, the box adds a splitter for the dual tuners and for some, that's enough to put the VOD out of whack and/or badly affect the analog channel quality. The thing is, in most cases, they can fix the problem (with some effort) using filters and/or signal boosters. This is the main reason why you want somebody there for installation.

Good luck!

-eric

I figured it's about time for me to jump in and update the group about some of the problems that KOMO has been experiencing. It has been very frustrating for me, and the whole KOMO engineering staff.

First, here is a little history about KOMO-DT:

KOMO first broadcast high definition programming in Seattle on January 20, 1997 using a low power experimental transmitter from our Queen Anne tower.

The material that was broadcast was post produced in 1080i (actually 1035i) by HD Vision in Dallas and consisted of material that we shot around the area (with borrowed Sony equipment) combined with some video provided by HD Vision. We built a High Definition demonstration theatre to show to visitors. The universal initial response was "when can I get it?" Then after thinking for a few minutes..."how much will it cost?"

To the best of our knowledge, we were the third station in the country to transmit HDTV after WHD (the industry model station in Washington, DC) and WRAL in Raleigh, NC. At the very least, KOMO was first on the west coast, about two weeks before KCTS began their experimental operation.

In March of 1998, we were finally able to get high power digital transmission equipment delivered and was initially transmitting on channel 38 with 350 kilowatts of average effective radiated power. The power was increased to 810 kw as soon as the manufacturer was able to deliver the equipment. The first High Definition broadcasts were in 1080i but we received our 720p encoder [in late October 1998] and have since been transmitting high definition test signals and an upconverted digital version of our regular NTSC programming when HDTV is not available from the network.

Our first live HDTV network feed was the John Glenn Space Shuttle broadcast Thursday, October 29, 1998, which we carried in 720p format.

We have found that the downside of being an early adopter is that we had to purchase the only encoding equipment available at the time...not much beyond prototypes. We are still trying to resolve some of the issues that have been cured in later generations.

Some of the problems found include hookups that sounded right when the equipment was installed, but later required reconfiguration to work with most receivers...factory mis-wired equipment (also typical of first generation gear)...and satellite interference. In trying to resolve the interference, some other unrelated problems were introduced.

We believe that the interference to the ABC network satellite receiver on 4 GHz is coming from high-power airborne radar operating on 3.9 GHz. It shows up as a momentary picture and audio loss, re-occurring three or four times 6-10 seconds apart, then disappearing for a half hour or so before coming back. The interference has been minimized by installing a new receiver and two new LNBs. I saw one breakup sequence last evening during Monday Night Football, but the balance of the game was perfect here. Hold your breath.

A word about audio delay...

Some receivers seem to have a problem with audio delayed from video by a very noticeable margin. If you have this, try switching away from the channel long enough for the picture to lock up, then back to 4-1 (38). If the audio is now in sync, there is a problem in the receiver. One service shop recommends pulling the line plug for a half hour or so...then plug it back in, turn it on and let the receiver processor reboot. This will cure a lot of ills. Early models of Samsung and Mitsubishi are known to have this problem.

Sorry for the long post, guys...I just wanted to get this out on the table.

Regards,

Don

"Cut-and-paste" can get you in trouble. In updating the history above, I missed the comment about upconverting NTSC programming. Of course, KOMO uses Sony HDTV studio cameras for local programs, and the field news cameras are 16x9 SD digital camcorders.

Don

don,
thanks for the insight into the behind the scenes side of Hd broadcasting. N ow we know the frustrations you have to deal with.

Don - glad to see you've "come out of the closet" (for lack of a better phrase - meaning the "electrical closet", of course!). Your direct posting here is far better than the limited second-hand stuff that has been posted before.

Everyone thinks HD is well past the infancy stage and even past the toddler stage by now. Obviously it isn't and since there are many pieces to the puzzle we all need to be patient. I'm just glad there are guys like you who are still working on this stuff even in retirement.

Welcome aboard!

Larry

Thanks, Larry. I think we are getting closer. Time will tell.

Don

Don:

It's great to hear from KOMO, and I have to say that I have seen things get better over the past 2 weeks or so... I can tell you're making progress.

Now if we only had somebody with KIRO who has the cojones to step up and answer the recurring questions that have been asked on this forum.

Don:

Thanks once again, we have conversed before, some time ago via email, about the time I sold my boat.

I too have seen improvements in both audio (no more mis-mapped channels) and video (no more break-ups/dropouts for me in the last week or so).

I still watch KOMO news because of the HD studio and 16x9 field cameras.

Were your folks using Pro Logic II audio for a time while sorting out the DD 5.1 problems? I remember seeing a few programs with DD 2.0 PLII when I expected DD 5.1 on KOMO-DT. Anyway, it sounds like those days are behind us.

Not many people here realize that you have been communicating regularly with folks who have emailed KOMO with HD comments and concerns, for at least a couple of years.

Thanks again for your persistence and support of HDTV at KOMO.

xkode2002:

A KIRO TV engineering spokesperson has started communicating with us on the forum, I think in the Seattle OTA thread. Do a search for a user name that includes KIRO.

He started by explaining why KIRO-DT was off the air last week for a transmitter upgrade (not finished yet). They are also adding equipment to begin producing and storing (servers) HD program content locally.

More HDTV progress in Seattle.

OnDemand became available on my 6412 in Kitsap in the last few days. The HD content is still very limited though - four IMAX films and Passion of the Christ (bleh). The price is right at $3.99. Anyone tried the HD OnDemand movies? Any comments on the quality?

I did watch the 10 minute preview for Dawn of the Dead on the SD widescreen Dolby OnDemand channel and it looked OK. I ordered the DVD from Netflix to do a one-to-one comparison to the onDemand SD.

I have also noticed an OnDemand combination that locks up the 6412 every time. Select Music then Havoc channel and try to page thru the very long list. It always locks up with a timeout and then a message that 'OnDemand is not available'.

I was just wondering would anybody out there say they get good HDTV reception from Comcast?

I have yet to make it through a program on HDTV where the sound didn't get so goofed up that I didn't switch to the analog channel to be able to hear what was happening. I read what the guy from KOMO said earlier about switching channels to clear it up, but if I'm recording something when I get the 6412 won't the recording then be goofed up and then I'll miss a bunch of dialog when I play it back later? Is it my setup or just the way HDTV is? :confused: When they deliver the 6412 is there anything specific I should ask the installation guy to fix? Or, again, is this just the way it is? Also, my current setup with what I assume is the 5100 looks pretty good for the standard stuff, will there be a noticeable worsening difference with the 6412?

I recorded all three Matrix movies from Comcast HBO HD on the 6412 and the audio is perfect. What channels are you watching?

I do notice some MPEG video artifacts in heavy motion sequences, especially in the final Matrix film during the battle sequence in Zion. Also, anything with a lot of bright flashing seems to cause the HD picture to lose resolution. It's not too bad though.

Originally posted by Don Wilkinson
"Cut-and-paste" can get you in trouble. In updating the history above, I missed the comment about upconverting NTSC programming. Of course, KOMO uses Sony HDTV studio cameras for local programs, and the field news cameras are 16x9 SD digital camcorders.

Don

Are these field cameras all the same? There's at least one that seems to have much better PQ than the rest--but I forget which reporter seems to get that camera. Also, in a thread somewhere several months ago regarding Golf or Horseracing in HD, someone claimed that the SD 16x9 cameras are 480p. I'd never thought about it prior, but haven't found anything since indicating whether they are.


Finally, I no longer watch KOMO news due to it's ever present bug which was seemingly designed to damage sets using technology prone to burn in, such as my RP CRT set. Almost a year ago KOMO responded to me indicating they were "redesigning" the bug, but it remains and I gave up waiting. Anything you could do to push them along getting rid of the present bug would be appreciated.

Don: Your KOMO insights are truly appreciated. I too watch KOMO news because of the use of HD in the field. The improvements are also appreciated. 2 stright weeks of no dropouts on Housewives and Boston Legal!

One thing I have noticed lately is that while watching the news, the audio volume seems to be fading in and out whenever switching takes place. When Molly or Dan are talking and a video clip starts, their volume noticably drops - and then slowly creeps back up. Any clues?

Originally posted by analog8
I have also noticed an OnDemand combination that locks up the 6412 every time. Select Music then Havoc channel and try to page thru the very long list. It always locks up with a timeout and then a message that 'OnDemand is not available'.


The way I have noticed this bug is as follows: Anytime you're in the VOD menus and you scroll beyond the first or last entry the box locks up for 2 minutes and then returns the error message 'OnDemand is not available'.
That's nothing compared to the Blue Screens of Death that I get once in a while. Still haven't figured out what causes that.

Originally posted by steen995
I was just wondering would anybody out there say they get good HDTV reception from Comcast?

I have yet to make it through a program on HDTV where the sound didn't get so goofed up that I didn't switch to the analog channel to be able to hear what was happening. I read what the guy from KOMO said earlier about switching channels to clear it up, but if I'm recording something when I get the 6412 won't the recording then be goofed up and then I'll miss a bunch of dialog when I play it back later? Is it my setup or just the way HDTV is? :confused: When they deliver the 6412 is there anything specific I should ask the installation guy to fix? Or, again, is this just the way it is? Also, my current setup with what I assume is the 5100 looks pretty good for the standard stuff, will there be a noticeable worsening difference with the 6412? Unfortunately it's mostly just the way HDTV is, esp. for local network affiliates like KOMO. National HD feeds like DHD, INHD, etc seem to have fewer problems. Go back & read thru the many (hundreds) of posts here about bad sound on KOMO-HD & other channels. In almost every case, the exact same problem was happening with OVER-THE-AIR HD broadcast as well as cable. Comcast can't fix the problem if it originates at the source.

If there were an actual Comcast transmission problem, you'd probably either lose the HD picture entirely, or get large, green "blocks" of missing data. You wouldn't get sound cutting in/out, since Comcast doesn't re-process HD signals - they mostly just re-transmit the exact bits they get from the source, as-is.

I will try to answer the KOMO questions in a batch...

Budget_HT:

Hi Dave -

Pro Logic II was locked on while the guys went through the DD5.1 to try to sort out the problem. In addition to the mixed up channels, they found that one of the changes made mixed one audio path straight through, while a second path went through a processor which added a slight delay. When combined, the result sounded like it was coming through a sewer pipe. When it was corrected, the DD5.1 was put back on line.

Switching between Pro Logic and DD5.1 should be minimized as the automated switching presently being designed goes on line.

karyk:

The 16x9 field cameras are all Sony digital SD camcorders. Videotapes that are shot in the field are brought back and ingested into files servers where editors have access for editing down to the final air version. This video should have the highest resolution.

You may be seeing video that is relayed back to the studio by microwave for live feeds. The analog microwave systems tend to degrade the overall picture quality somewhat. New digital microwave systems are coming. Nextel has worked out an agreement with the FCC to take two of the seven existing 2 GHz channels presently used by broadcasters for mobile phone service. In return, they are going to provide broadcasters with new narrowband digital microwave systems...a very expensive deal.

I believe the Sony cameras are 480p, but I can't swear to it...it has been long enough since I worked directly with them that I don't recall. I makes sense that they would be, given that they are all digital.

I have brought their attention several times to the logo problem. The station design people feel that the blue and white logo provides a "look" that they like. Your comments will help to show them that there are other issues involved.

rverginia:

Part of the issues we have been chasing include a 'pop' when the satellite interference occurs. You will also see a change in level if one of the news anchors bumps his microphone and creates a loud noise. Some sets are not affected by this, and others will drop the sound level dramatically.

The difference is in the setup in each receiver. For example, my Toshiba 32" CRT set has an option under setup, audio, that is labeled "Perfect Audio on/off". This enables or disables an audio automatic gain amplifier in the set. When it sees a loud noise, whether is is a loud commercial, a pop, a bumped microphone, etc. it reduced the gain then slowly recovers. Until we can figure out how to deal with peak limiting on 5.1 channels, I suggest that you locate the audio setup on your receiver and turn off the AGC. We will find a solution, but we have been concentrating on the most obvious issues first.

Switching between network and local has created a pop resulting a similar dip in the audio. That should be gone now...or at least minimized. Adjustments were made in system timing that appear to have helped.


Don

Don: I know the setting that you are talking about and I believe I have it set for Max Compression in my Comcast box. I will set it to OFF and try it out.

Now, can you teach KING how to switch between SD and HD? I can't even watch their news anymore with all the flipping back and forth. KOMO really is figuring it out. I haven't yet experienced KIRO's HD (duh?).

As far as the logo - would it be possible to change it's position every so often? A couple pixels in each direction every few minutes wouldn't be noticable and would solve a lot of burn-in issues.

I hope you are sharing these posts with your bosses!

Thanks Again!

Bob

Originally posted by rverginia
Don: I know the setting that you are talking about and I believe I have it set for Max Compression in my Comcast box. I will set it to OFF and try it out.

Now, can you teach KING how to switch between SD and HD? I can't even watch their news anymore with all the flipping back and forth. KOMO really is figuring it out. I haven't yet experienced KIRO's HD (duh?).

As far as the logo - would it be possible to change it's position every so often? A couple pixels in each direction every few minutes wouldn't be noticable and would solve a lot of burn-in issues.

I hope you are sharing these posts with your bosses!

Thanks Again!

Bob

Can't do much about KING, Bob. Being competitors for viewers, I would prefer that they continue what they are doing. ;-)

I will pass your comments about the logo along to the right people, though.

Don

Originally posted by rverginia
As far as the logo - would it be possible to change it's position every so often? A couple pixels in each direction every few minutes wouldn't be noticable and would solve a lot of burn-in issues.

Even better, since I'm reasonably certain the option of not having the logo displayed at all won't fly real well, can the logo alternate with each subsequent program throughout the day from the left side of the screen to the right side of the screen in addition to the suggestion of moving a couple pixels every few minutes? This would help immensely in minimizing burn-in, if possible to accomplish.

Thanks for listening Don!

Originally posted by rverginia
Don: I know the setting that you are talking about and I believe I have it set for Max Compression in my Comcast box. I will set it to OFF and try it out.

Actually, I don't believe what Don was referring to has anything to do with the Comcast box. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but what Don was describing applies to your audio receiver/TV rather than your digital cable receiver. The setting you changed in your Comcast box won't really hurt anything, but I highly doubt it will help the problem.

Hey Dan: While Don was actually referring to the receiver, the Comcast box also has the same adjustments in the main menu under "audio". I set the box to get rid of the compression and the problem went away.
I do like your logo idea as well. Now if I could just get rid of those black bars (without buying a new TV)!

excuse this if already covered (didn't seem to be)

don - when watching Lost on wednesday at 8 from comcast, we've all seen that the initial feed when the intro starts sometimes jumps between 4:3 in 16:9 frame and full 16:9 - this usually gets corrected after the program starts, but sometimes not until in the 5-10 minute range (more so early than late). is this a matter of someone watching the show, then pushing a button? how will this be handled in the future to ensure a cleaner presentation?

thanks!

Originally posted by brente
excuse this if already covered (didn't seem to be)

don - when watching Lost on wednesday at 8 from comcast, we've all seen that the initial feed when the intro starts sometimes jumps between 4:3 in 16:9 frame and full 16:9 - this usually gets corrected after the program starts, but sometimes not until in the 5-10 minute range (more so early than late). is this a matter of someone watching the show, then pushing a button? how will this be handled in the future to ensure a cleaner presentation?

thanks!

That is a function that requires the Master Control operator to make a manual switch. Unfortunately, that person doesn't always make the switch on time.

The guys are designing an interface to the station automation equipment that will take care of it.

By the way, some programs are fed to us with 4x3 video in the beginning. Monday Night Football is a good example...the opening sequence, "are you ready for some football"...is pre-produced in 4x3. After it is finished, they cut to live 16x9 remote video.

Not all production facilities are rigged for 16x9 HDTV yet, so they have to use studios that are available. Time will fix that.

Don

Originally posted by danstone
Even better, since I'm reasonably certain the option of not having the logo displayed at all won't fly real well, can the logo alternate with each subsequent program throughout the day from the left side of the screen to the right side of the screen in addition to the suggestion of moving a couple pixels every few minutes? This would help immensely in minimizing burn-in, if possible to accomplish.

Thanks for listening Don!

It's the news bug which is the worst. It's large and most of it is pure white. It's as if KOMO is trying to punish those who watch a lot of their news (but I suspect it's just that they hired a marketing company to design the bug and the company knew about design issues but not technical issues such as burn in).

Originally posted by Don Wilkinson
Can't do much about KING, Bob. Being competitors for viewers, I would prefer that they continue what they are doing. ;-)

I don't know. You could be losing a lot of HD viewers who watch KING news just for a few laughs. KING doesn't realize that the 16x9 image results from a wider camera angle, so you frequently see things happening at the edge of the screen that they don't intend to be seen. Their HD broadcast isn't very professional at all.

Originally posted by Karyk
I don't know. You could be losing a lot of HD viewers who watch KING news just for a few laughs. KING doesn't realize that the 16x9 image results from a wider camera angle, so you frequently see things happening at the edge of the screen that they don't intend to be seen. Their HD broadcast isn't very professional at all.

Without having any inside information about their operations, it appears to me that they switch to 4x3 upconverted SD to insert graphics, then when no graphics are needed, they go direct to the HD camera at 16x9.

I agree, it is difficult for me to watch.

I don't want to be critical, however. We have had enough of our own problems.

Don

Originally posted by Don Wilkinson
I have brought their attention several times to the logo problem. The station design people feel that the blue and white logo provides a "look" that they like. Your comments will help to show them that there are other issues involved.

Thank you! I thought it had been changed this weekend when I turned on KOMO and saw a Peoplehelper segment. Unfortunately, it was a special bug for a Peoplehelper special (which isn't a great bug, but it's acceptable and far better than the news bug).

I do have to wonder about the design people. Do they really think that having the time and temperature displayed constantly is necessary? Whenever I want to know what time it is, I turn to KOMO news, and if the news isn't on, I don't have a clue how to find out what time it is. :D

Also, they might like the "look" but most people are annoyed by bugs in general, and the least intrusive the design the better. I'd say the design people are at too attracted to their own work. They should realize no one is going to watch KOMO because of the bug, but some people quit watching KOMO because of it. No gain against some loss seems like a no-brainer.

Originally posted by Karyk
Thank you! I thought it had been changed this weekend when I turned on KOMO and saw a Peoplehelper segment. Unfortunately, it was a special bug for a Peoplehelper special (which isn't a great bug, but it's acceptable and far better than the news bug).

I do have to wonder about the design people. Do they really think that having the time and temperature displayed constantly is necessary? Whenever I want to know what time it is, I turn to KOMO news, and if the news isn't on, I don't have a clue how to find out what time it is. :D

Also, they might like the "look" but most people are annoyed by bugs in general, and the least intrusive the design the better. I'd say the design people are at too attracted to their own work. They should realize no one is going to watch KOMO because of the bug, but some people quit watching KOMO because of it. No gain against some loss seems like a no-brainer.

I second your opinion on bugs. I think we are over-saturated with advertising as it is. The bugs really irritate me, regardless of how "good" the design is. It is useless information IMHO. Who doesn't know what channel they are watching anyway? If we let them get away with one bug in one corner who is to stop them from putting more ads all around the perimeter of the screen? Just look at web pages these days. You can't hardly tell what the page is for because of all the ads that obliterate the message. It used to be in the old days that stations would ID themselves on the hour and half-hour. So why can't the bugs appear briefly every 30 minutes? Or even every 15 minutes? Anything would be an improvement over what we have now.

Hi,
a while back I had asked about what minimal packages will get me South Asian programming, and the post was the following pasted below. My question is what receiver should I ask for now? With the recent DVR capable receiver available, should I go for that? Whats the extra charge from the below?

TIA

-------

$11.39 - $13.75 (depending on area) for Limited Cable
$5.10 for HD Digital Lite (Includes PPV Access, Comcast On Demand, Digital Music, Programming Guide, 1 Standard Digital Set-Top Receiver)
$24.99 for Zee TV & TV Asia Combination Ch. 246 & 247
$6.45 Advanced Set-Top Receiver for HDTV

rajeshh, According to their rate card printed 3/2004, this should be accurate. It is my understanding the HD Digi Lite subscribers get all the locals as well as ESPN in high definintion. You do not get Discovery, INHD 1 & 2,. You would get these as well if you did Digital Classic instead of Digital Lite. The price for Classic is $11.99 per month.

Most of you are aware of the occasional breakup of the KOMO-DT HDTV video. After doing some research, I have speculated that it was a result of interference from an airborne picket radar that is flying over the Puget Sound 24/7. These radars operate at very high power about 3.9 GHz, just below the ABC network's 4 GHz satellite receive frequency. The radar antenna takes about six seconds to revolve, and the racetrack circuit the plane is flying take about 30 minutes to complete. All this fits that pattern.

This morning, Fisher's Director of Engineering, Kelly Alford, confirmed that others are having similar problems with the follow message:


"We had a telephone conversation with ABC about this issue just this morning. Apparently the Seattle area isn't the only city effected by the Air Force radar planes flying around causing interference to satellite reception. In our conversation this morning, ABC indicated that they will be supplying us with custom made notch filters for installation on our LNB's to alleviate the problem. We will have more information next week as to when the filters will be available.

Don, feel free to pass this information along to the AVS discussion board if you think it would be beneficial.

Best Regards,

Kelly D. Alford
Director of Engineering
KOMO-TV4 Seattle"

I think that we are getting closer.

Don

Don: Once again you make HDTV life worth living. It is nice to know that you are there working for us from this small grass roots effort to better HDTV for the masses. Tell Kelly that we appreciate his involvement, as well his recognition of this forum.
Thanks for all you are doing and have a happy new year.
Bob

Originally posted by rverginia
Don: Once again you make HDTV life worth living. It is nice to know that you are there working for us from this small grass roots effort to better HDTV for the masses. Tell Kelly that we appreciate his involvement, as well his recognition of this forum.
Thanks for all you are doing and have a happy new year.
Bob

You are welcome, Bob. We will continue to keep everyone apprised of the progress.

Don

Ditto. Thanks Don!

Now if we could just get a CBS guy in here. :)

Originally posted by rverginia
Don: Once again you make HDTV life worth living. It is nice to know that you are there working for us from this small grass roots effort to better HDTV for the masses. Tell Kelly that we appreciate his involvement, as well his recognition of this forum.
Thanks for all you are doing and have a happy new year.
Bob

Originally posted by Tom_Oliver
Now if we could just get a CBS guy in here. :)

If by CBS you mean Cox/KIRO, KIRO's engineering department posts to the OTA forum regularly.

Heads-up re KIRO HD:

This is from today's San Francisco Chronicle:

Void near end?: For months, Comcast customers with high-definition TV have been frustrated by the lack of the HD signal for KTVU (Channel 2). The void has resulted from a dispute between Cox Broadcasting, KTVU's parent company, and Comcast.

A source familiar with the negotiations says there is reason to believe the impasse is near an end. The source said it's "possible" KTVU's HD signal will be available on Comcast by Jan. 9, the date of Fox's first NFL playoff telecast. The source said it's "likely" KTVU-HD will be available by Feb. 6, the date of the Super Bowl on Fox.

For the sake of both Comcast and KTVU, "likely" better be "definitely." If the source is accurate, I think many of you understand why this is a positive development for KIRO HD carriage on Comcast in Seattle. In fact, I would be very surprised if there was an agreement for KTVU HD which did not include an agreement for KIRO HD.

Then again, COX knows the Super Bowl is just that and, HD or SD, most folks will watch it anyway. That is why we did not get KIRO HD for 2004's event ( not that TiVoing it was a bad thing. ;) ).

Still, one can hope. I am getting close to dropping CSI: Miami and NCIS from my TiVo (already sent Cold Case to the dustbin), and getting KIRO in HD would incentivize me to continue to watch them - and their ads.

I hope this agreement applies to ALL COX channels, not just this particular one. I have been on a self-imposed KIRO boycott until I get HD. ;)

The 75-80 audio pops and freezes during the games today were just plain wrong. My guests couldnt believe how ghetto it was. It's pretty loud on a good system. I've been watching KOMO HD for over a year now and shout "KOMO_TIME!!!!" out loud with every mishap. It's quite commical in my household to all. Thanks for the laughs!!.....Happy New Year.

ESPN2?.....info?????

I've noticed that the KOMO lockups tend to occur near the end of programs, right when you least want to have them. It's usually during the closing scenes of Lost, or during the final couple of plays in the football game.

I've taken to tuning in the SD channel for the critical final scenes and recording the HD channel to rewatch that scene in HD after the program ends.

Originally posted by rajeshh
Hi,
a while back I had asked about what minimal packages will get me South Asian programming, and the post was the following pasted below. My question is what receiver should I ask for now? With the recent DVR capable receiver available, should I go for that? Whats the extra charge from the below?


If you are just looking to watch the South Asian channels for tsunami news, Comcast has granted free access to those channels until January 17th. The channels are Zee TV (246) and Asia (247).

After the 17th, they go back to a la carte pay channel status. They are $15 apiece or $25 for the pair.

See http://www.theolympian.com/home/news/20050101/southsound/60197.shtml for more details.

I have a question, maybe someone out there knows it. I'm getting Comcast cable installed on Wednesday with the works - HD Package, HD PVR, cable modem. So my question is: will the installer trust me to set it up myself? Or will he want to see it working? And if he sees it working, will he want to see HD? I ask because my new TV isn't going to be here by then, so all I'll have is SD TV via composite/SVideo from my TV capture card on my computer.

It's been a few years since I had cable TV, I dropped them for DirecTV right before Comcast went HD (what pushed me over the edge was when I asked if they had HDTV, clarified that I meant High Definition Television, she said yes, and turns out she thought I said HGTV and ignored the rest of my sentence).

Did anyone else experience tearing and breakups when recording 105 at 9pm through to 11pm? Both shows were unwatchable, hopefully it was King and not my box, I don't want to replace it again. Please let me know.

Originally posted by nodrog2
Did anyone else experience tearing and breakups when recording 105 at 9pm through to 11pm? Both shows were unwatchable, hopefully it was King and not my box, I don't want to replace it again. Please let me know.
Nope, I had no problems, other than occasional brief audio dropout during law & Order and Jordan last night.

Originally posted by Dreamwriter
I have a question, maybe someone out there knows it. I'm getting Comcast cable installed on Wednesday with the works - HD Package, HD PVR, cable modem. So my question is: will the installer trust me to set it up myself? Or will he want to see it working? And if he sees it working, will he want to see HD? I ask because my new TV isn't going to be here by then, so all I'll have is SD TV via composite/SVideo from my TV capture card on my computer.


I had a similar situation. The installer had a fancy box to test the connection and he only seemed to care that the line checked out OK through his box. He was happy to leave without even seeing a picture on my screen and I took it from there.

--
Steve

Originally posted by kanefsky
I had a similar situation. The installer had a fancy box to test the connection and he only seemed to care that the line checked out OK through his box. He was happy to leave without even seeing a picture on my screen and I took it from there.

--
Steve


My installer(s) insisted on wiring my system so they could see a picture, and since I wasn't there and my wife didn't act fast enough, they totally bypassed my receiver setup to get their picture.

90% (at least) of Comcast installers are idiots. Or at least, insufficiently trained. Amounts to the same thing.

- Kelly

Originally posted by KelDez
90% (at least) of Comcast installers are idiots. Or at least, insufficiently trained. Amounts to the same thing.

- Kelly

I wasn't commenting on the intelligence or training of the installer. I was just saying that he had a fancy piece of test equipment that analyzed the line going into the cable box and told him that everything was working OK. He had enough confidence in his test equipment that he didn't need to see a picture on the screen.

Actually I think he did also power on the cable box and look at the LED display to verify that it booted up OK. But he definitely never saw a picture because I had to figure out how to switch the 4:3 mode to 480p first. I'm running through a component->VGA transcoder and my monitor won't handle 480i.

--
Steve

There are a couple BB games coming up on ESPN2 in HD that I really wish I could see in HD. Any word on if/when Comcast will be adding ESPN2HD to their lineup? If it's not in the works already is there a number I can call or email I can send to plug it?

Thanks,

Tim

Anyone have any idea when Fox Sports Net/Northwest will be available in HD, whether via Comcast or DirecTV? When some M's games were in HD last year, was that produced by FSN, or something else?

The previous two years, the only Mariners games in HD were those televised in Japan by NHK. NHK had the HD cameras, they produced all the HD video you saw. Comcast put together a deal for those games, to show us the NHK picture coupled with the Fox FSN sound. Was nice to see HD but the picture & sound rarely matched. Dave & Rick might be commenting on the beautiful sunset over Elliot Bay, while the picture showed a closeup of Ichiro stretching. In fact, rarely did the NHK picture show anything *but* Ichiro :)

I've heard from someone who works for the Mariners that all games on Fox will be in HD this year. I haven't seen any indpendent confirmation of this yet, though.

I have Comcast cable in South King County and just installed an LG LST-4200A HD receiver with a QAM tuner and found the station mapping to be a bit peculiar. I am really only interested in picking up the local HD channels and an initial channel search found a number of stations in the 110-1 to 112-2 range, including 111-4 for ABC/KOMO. I didn’t identify the other stations yet but had a few questions as I set my system up.

Is there a method to the mapping scheme? I didn’t check yet but is 111-5 channel 5 as 111-4 is channel 4?

Is there a source explaining and identifying Comcast channel mapping or is that dependent on the HD receiver? As I mentioned, HD stations are my main interest but I wouldn’t mind knowing the other channels if available.

Also, my receiver has a program and station guide feature but I don’t seem to be getting any station or programming information. Is that not provided by Comcast for third party receivers?

Thanks.

George

I read the first 14 pages of the WA only post (HDTV Recorders / Washington State - Comcast 6412 w/ MSFT Software) and have a few questions about the 6412 in general. I currently do not have any HD equipment, just a couple 20" and a 31" standard tv w/Comcast's basic + extended service. I do not get any premium channels and mostly watch channels 4, 5, 7, 8, 11, 13, 30's, a couple between 40-70 and a few in the 100's. I hate my vcr and want to get dvr (I like the dual tuner option) but it is not available yet in my area. My questions are:

I read in the other post that <100 channels look like crap. Will I notice this w/my current tv's (non HD)?

The 6412 is HD, so will I be able to view the HD channels? Obviously, I won't get the great quality w/my old tv's.

Is the 6412 my best option (price) or is there another system that I should consider?

Thanks,
Carman
Go Hard or Go Home

Carman,
Well, ,100 looking like crap seems to be a matter of taste. While I've seen better looking analog video, I don't really have a complaint. For me, they're just not as good as they should be. And, you -may- notice the same crap that others see.

If you subscribe to HD channels, you'd be able to see the HD channels downrezed. They'll look better than the analog channels and the SD channels, too.

I like the 6412. While it may not be the best option, it's the most reasonably priced. And, I find it very convenient, much more so than my VCR. Especially since it includes a program guide. And, the program information sticks with the recorded programs, unlike what happens with my VCR.

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by Go Hard
I hate my vcr and want to get dvr (I like the dual tuner option) but it is not available yet in my area.
If you live in Kent and have Comcast you should be able to get the 6412. You may have spoken to a rep who was mistaken or confused. I'd call back and ask for it again.

Hey all - I recently moved from Puyallup to the Lacey/Olympia area.

Installer came yesterday for my scheduled install of my Moto 6412...when he got here - he told me that my area isn't set up for HD as of right now, but that he would go ahead and connect the box (6412) anyway, so that I would have the DVR functions.

Does anyone know when HD will be here in Lacey? My zip: 98516

The installer said "soon" but couldn't give me anymore than that....I am praying it will be in-time for the 2nd round of the NFL Playoffs, but I doubt it will be that soon. I'll have to go elsewhere to see my Colts whoop-up on the Patsies I guess :)

Hey all - I recently moved from Puyallup to the Lacey/Olympia area.

Installer came yesterday for my scheduled install of my Moto 6412...when he got here - he told me that my area isn't set up for HD as of right now, but that he would go ahead and connect the box (6412) anyway, so that I would have the DVR functions.

Does anyone know when HD will be here in Lacey? My zip: 98516

The installer said "soon" but couldn't give me anymore than that....I am praying it will be in-time for the 2nd round of the NFL Playoffs, but I doubt it will be that soon. I'll have to go elsewhere to see my Colts whoop-up on the Patsies I guess :)

You'd better thank your lucky stars Comcast gave you that DVR without HD service. Many people were begging for one and Comcast was saying No. Congratulations to you!

Originally posted by djmattyb
You'd better thank your lucky stars Comcast gave you that DVR without HD service. Many people were begging for one and Comcast was saying No. Congratulations to you!

It's not HD service, but a certain level of service. I have HD, but my $12.95 less $10.00 for cable Internet discount doesn't qualify me to get the box.

Originally posted by mdbunting
Hey all - I recently moved from Puyallup to the Lacey/Olympia area.

Installer came yesterday for my scheduled install of my Moto 6412...when he got here - he told me that my area isn't set up for HD as of right now, but that he would go ahead and connect the box (6412) anyway, so that I would have the DVR functions.

Does anyone know when HD will be here in Lacey? My zip: 98516

The installer said "soon" but couldn't give me anymore than that....I am praying it will be in-time for the 2nd round of the NFL Playoffs, but I doubt it will be that soon. I'll have to go elsewhere to see my Colts whoop-up on the Patsies I guess :)

I'm hearing Jan 13th or Feb 3 (on or shortly after one of these dates), depending on where you live within that zip code.

I was listening to 102.5 this morning on my way to work and they were talking about a possible blackout for the seahawks playoff game on saturday due to low ticket sales???? Does anyone know if the NFL will really blockout a playoff game? I'm a bit worried since there are still quite a few tickets left for the game. That would suck to not be able to watch the game.

Low sales?! I heard they sold 60K in 6 hours!!! What do they want?! Greedy bastards want us to be hanging off the freaking goal posts too?

From seattle times:

---
Just fewer than 6,000 tickets remain for Saturday's game against the Rams. That's bad news for fans planning to watch it on TV. The playoff game can be blacked out locally if Qwest Field isn't closer to sold out. The Seahawks have until 1:30 p.m. today for the blackout deadline.
---

So apparently there is only a little over 4 hours to sell the rest of the tickets are the game gets blacked out :/

Any info on ESPN2HD? Where else can I get information?

Originally posted by tluxon
There are a couple BB games coming up on ESPN2 in HD that I really wish I could see in HD. Any word on if/when Comcast will be adding ESPN2HD to their lineup? If it's not in the works already is there a number I can call or email I can send to plug it?

Thanks,

Tim

For anyone having a problem getting remote for 6412...

Got 6412 DVR installed on 12/31. Tech said he was out of remotes.
After calling Comcast and reaching Redmond office, was told no new remotes available with ETA of Feb. 1.

On hunch, went to North Seattle office location (1140 N. 94th St 98103)Was able to get new remote. Appears that this office has a fair number. Take old remote from non-DVR Motorola box to exchange.

Without being specific, Tech also mentioned that many more analog stations would be going digital in next 5-6 months.

Originally posted by Slev

So apparently there is only a little over 4 hours to sell the rest of the tickets are the game gets blacked out :/

The NFL let the Seahawks extend the deadline until the same time on Thursday since it was a short week (Sun->Sat) for the ticket sales. I've heard there are now ~5000 tickets left...

Several months ago there was talk on this thread about a new program guide that Comcast was to roll out in the Seattle area (a Microsoft-related product as I recall). Any word on its ETA? I still see only the same old crude, low-resolution Comcast progam guide as always...

Thanks.

The new MSTV user interface is currently available only on the 6412 DVR boxes. Not sure if this will eventually be rolled out to all boxes, or not.

Puget sound Comcast QAM user - Is 111-4 (KOMO) and 111-5 (KCTS) off tonight? I was able to tune in the past 3 nights, but not tonight..

The Redmond Cable Store has a fair # of DVR remotes. I exchanged mine yesterday.

Originally posted by jimre
The new MSTV user interface is currently available only on the 6412 DVR boxes. Not sure if this will eventually be rolled out to all boxes, or not.

I saw it over the holidays. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it. It didn't seem significantly better. The new box is not a Tivo, that's for sure.

Anyone else NOT getting messages from Comcast on their new DVR boxes? I am still getting them on the old box upstairs, concerning the free HBO OnDemand weekend, but nothing downstairs; it's ironic, that this is like the first free thing like this I remember, and we just added HBO last week!

I can't remember when I last got a message. Hmmm - maybe we shouldn't complain!

Originally posted by Karyk
I saw it over the holidays. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it. It didn't seem significantly better. The new box is not a Tivo, that's for sure. It's nowhere near as feature-rich as a Tivo or Replay, but it's functional, and it's light years beyond the TV Guide crap Comcast has given us in the past.

Most importantly: easily recording HD programs without the hassle of an HTPC, hacked firewire drivers, and flaky playback software: PRICELESS.

Has anyone had problems recording/watching fox (ch 113) with the 6412? I find frequently when I record a program on this channel or watch it even slightly delayed (so same as watching it recorded), I will get heavy "pixelation" that is sometiems accompanied by audio loss. I don't see this on any other channel, only the fox hd channel. It doesn't matter if the program is HD or not. I've seen it on shows like House and Quintuplets (both hd) and also on Simpson reruns (non-hd). Note that this doesn't happen on every recording, but I would say it happens on maybe 75% of them. My first thought was that it's a box problem, but thinking about it more, I don't see how that could be it because it only happens on one channel.

I hope "pixelation" is enough of a description. It just looks like portions of the screen (maybe in 1" by 5" blocks) get screwed and these "boxes of pixelation" can be seen constantly and in random places on the screen. Maybe the mpeg encoder has difficulty with 720p ?

Has anyone else seen this or know of a solution?

Originally posted by jimre
The new MSTV user interface is currently available only on the 6412 DVR boxes. Not sure if this will eventually be rolled out to all boxes, or not.

it will be pushed out to all HDTV boxes first and then to the rest of them later, but they're thinking all of them by the end of Q1 if everything goes as planned. the original date to push out the MS guide to HD boxes was 12/15/04 but since there are still some bugs they're working them out before they do a mass roll-out. that's what I hear unofficially.

I've seen this (pixelation as in 1"x5" squares) on NBC too. It seems to happen while I'm recording two shows and try to start one of them from the beginning. If I wait until its finished recording, I don't have any problems.

And if you look at this thread(url fixed):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467203&perpage=20&pagenumber=27

It looks like a common problem.

Originally posted by livetoflyfish
I've seen this (pixelation as in 1"x5" squares) on NBC too. It seems to happen while I'm recording two shows and try to start one of them from the beginning. If I wait until its finished recording, I don't have any problems.

And if you look at this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.phps=&postid=4933656#post4933656

It looks like a common problem.

Thanks for the heads up. Could you repost the link? It 's invalid url.

I can't verify when I've seen this in the past, but for sure the last time I saw it I was recording two shows at once. I really hope that something will be done to fix it in the next firmware update because I see this frequently enough that it's really annoying.

Also see my post here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4933656#post4933656)

FYI, via "Seattle Times":
The Seahawks' playoff game at home on Saturday against the St. Louis Rams will be aired on local television, the Seahawks announced Thursday.
The NFC game will be broadcast on KOMO (Channel 4) on Saturday. Kickoff is scheduled at Qwest Field for 1:30 p.m.
... By Thursday afternoon, less than 1,000 tickets remained, a sellout by NFL standards.

Sure hope the sound probelms & pixelation on 104 are few & far between... :rolleyes:
Oh well, at least it's telivised.

Did anybody else have problems with Lost again?

It started really good, they switched 16:9 on time at the beginning, the pciture quality of that show is just stunning.

Then half way through loud pops and audio dropping out completely during conversations. Problems continued throughout Alias.

Originally posted by Slev
I was listening to 102.5 this morning on my way to work and they were talking about a possible blackout for the seahawks playoff game on saturday due to low ticket sales???? Does anyone know if the NFL will really blockout a playoff game? I'm a bit worried since there are still quite a few tickets left for the game. That would suck to not be able to watch the game.
Calm down, calm down. Thanks to the Seahawks and various radio and tv stations ALL the tickets were sold. So the game will be on TV Saturday and hopefully in a snow storm. I hope Holmgren has chains for all those Seahawk players! :D

Originally posted by hinten
Did anybody else have problems with Lost again?

It started really good, they switched 16:9 on time at the beginning, the pciture quality of that show is just stunning.

Then half way through loud pops and audio dropping out completely during conversations. Problems continued throughout Alias.

The Comcast Motorola box has a default setting of 'Max" for audio compression. Until we can get the interference problem solved, you can minimize the drastic audio level changes by turning off the compression. The compressor circuit sees the pop and turns the gain down, then slowly recovers, bringing the sound back up. I don't have Comcast digital service so I can't give you the exact procedure to access the menu.

Audio processing equipment to limit the maximum audio level is on the way. That should help.

Don

Don,
am I understanding correctly: Because the box sees the pop as a very loud sound all consequent audio is lowered and slowly adjusted upwards again?

I have a similar setting on my am which is called 'Night Setting'; I know which setting on the cable box you are talking about.

You've got that right. It's called AGC, or automatic gain control. It's an automatic audio level to, essentially, compress the loudest and softest sounds. So, when something very loug comes along, the AGC turns the volume down, then it slowly turns it back up. The 6412 has three settings, one of which is OFF.

Most broadcasters use AGC, to some extent, to keep audio levels, uh, level.

So much for the "snow" game, but I'm looking forward to it tomorrow anyway. One thing I've learned from living here so many years: when the TV weather SAYS it will snow, it won't. ;)

Four inches overnight in Anacortes.

Originally posted by hinten
Don,
am I understanding correctly: Because the box sees the pop as a very loud sound all consequent audio is lowered and slowly adjusted upwards again?

I have a similar setting on my am which is called 'Night Setting'; I know which setting on the cable box you are talking about.

ArtShotwell has it right on.

The pop could be coming from several things...it could be transmitted; it could be the result of the receiver decoder re-locking after an interruption at the station; or it could be local interference that disrupts the bitsream. KOMO has ordered for evaluation a device that will peak limit the Dolby audio at the transmitter.

Such devices are common in analog stereo broadcasting to prevent overmodulation of the carrier. Digital audio is another matter altogether. The unit to be evaluated is the first one available that I am aware of that will peak limit DD5.1. Hopefully it will also help to maintain constant program audio.

Loud commercials have been a problem for broadcasters from the beginning. Viewers tend to perceive that commercials are intentionally turned up. Not so.

Commercial producers learned a long time ago to select music and sounds that grab your attention. Then they process the audio to increase the average level, thus defeating the intent of the station's AGC amplifiers.

A commercial that would not seem to be out of place in the context of a football game would be extremely jarring when placed in an intimate bedroom scene of a movie. The AGC amplifiers don't know the difference.

Please bear with us, guys. We have had more than 50 years to work the bugs out of NTSC. We are still working on ATSC.

Don

This is all great info and I'll try changing the setting.
But the more I think about it, the break-up sounded more like, well, the sound breaking up not volume lowered because of a pop. Sort of like pixelation of video only for the audio portion.
Either way, I'll see if it happens again.

Originally posted by Don Wilkinson
ArtShotwell has it right on. Don
Thanks, Don. I worked in radio & TV for 25+ years, on the news side. I happen to dislike AGC, at least AGC that is over-active. I never liked hearing background sounds brought up to the same level as my voice whenever I paused during a report. This during the old analog days. I hope you'll be judicious in your use of AGC.

BTW, I'm suspicious that the pop, at least the one I hear, comes from a DD5.1 interruption. My receiver (my DD decoder) seems to reset after those pops. I hear something similar when HBO moves from Stereo to DD5.1.

Anyone know when this might be available on Comcast in Seattle? They started broadcasting basketball games Thursday night in HD.

This would be a national agreement. Comcast has not announced any agreement with ESPN for ESPN2HD.

Nobody has it yet, it really just was a studio channel last night. Not D* or Adelphia Cable, who signed agreements earlier.

How long before Comcast gets it? I don't know, but eventually we will. Comcast does not add national channels very quickly as you can tell with no HDNETs, no UniversalHD, no TNT-HD and now no ESPN2HD.

Originally posted by jimre
The new MSTV user interface is currently available only on the 6412 DVR boxes. Not sure if this will eventually be rolled out to all boxes, or not.

My old DCT-2000 got the new MSTV interface the same day I got my 6412, which was the first day you could get one. The old 2000 actually lost its menu system after the 6412 was installed, but after I called the CSR, they did a hard reset and after 4 hours, the new MSTV interface for non-DVRs was there.

Originally posted by artshotwell
Thanks, Don. I worked in radio & TV for 25+ years, on the news side. I happen to dislike AGC, at least AGC that is over-active. I never liked hearing background sounds brought up to the same level as my voice whenever I paused during a report. This during the old analog days. I hope you'll be judicious in your use of AGC.

BTW, I'm suspicious that the pop, at least the one I hear, comes from a DD5.1 interruption. My receiver (my DD decoder) seems to reset after those pops. I hear something similar when HBO moves from Stereo to DD5.1.

That's an interesting thought, Art. I heard the guys discussing whether it would be better to leave the DD5.1 on all the time, even in the stereo mode. I will make sure that Kelly is aware of this.

I agree about compression...the lighter the better. Peak limiting to prevent overmodulation I think is important as long as it isn't pushed too hard.

One of the interesting things about digital television is that not all receivers react in the same way. I have seen times in the past where one of my two DTV receivers had perfect audio, while the other had no audio at all. Obviously something was not right in the incoming signal.

It makes me wonder about the drastic audio changes that viewers have complained about. I don't see that at all with my Samsung SIR-TS160.
As I said before, we are still learning. For us old tube-types this digital stuff represents a pretty steep learning curve.

Don

Originally posted by Don Wilkinson
It makes me wonder about the drastic audio changes that viewers have complained about. I don't see that at all with my Samsung SIR-TS160.
As I said before, we are still learning. For us old tube-types this digital stuff represents a pretty steep learning curve.
I don't see (or, rather hear) drastic audio changes. I do see -some- audio changes, though, in KING's local news. Seems that the audio level changes when the picture changes from the one HD floor camera to any other source. And, that level change isn't always noticible, either. It's rather strange., unless the audio is following the video switcher.

For me, HBO's audio level drops slightly when they switch from stereo to DD5.1 and I have noticed the same thing on either KING or KOMO, can't remember which.

Originally posted by Don Wilkinson
That's an interesting thought, Art. I heard the guys discussing whether it would be better to leave the DD5.1 on all the time, even in the stereo mode. I will make sure that Kelly is aware of this.
Don

This seems to be working well over at KIRO-DT. They leave the DD5.1 on all the time (last I checked anyway) and apparently send decoded DPL II into a DD 5.1 encoder (or some equivalent shortcut), giving us a constant DD 5.1 mode on our A/V receivers and changing the audio payload between real DD 5.1 on some network shows, some DPL II with matrix surround center channel and mono rear surrounds, and some plain stereo.

This takes all of the effort out at the receiving end (here at home) but may require state-of-the-art audio equipment at the studio.

I think the KING-DT news audio level changes are not as drastic as they once were. Now I hear more change between studio and remote feeds than between HD studio and SD studio. But if I were not listening for it, I might not notice it, whereas before, I could not miss it.

Getting better all the time ....

Seems like after we get spoiled a bit, we raise our expectations again and seek more.

I wrote a rather lengthy post about this and posted it to the forum directly because I believe it probably covers ALL Comcast cities, but I guess I broke the rules so the moderator deleted the post because it's gone. So I'll try to recreate in shorter form because there's nothing I hate more than doing something twice.

Here's the deal. I have a 6412 HDTV DVR from Comcast. I also have a Mediacenter PC. Both use DVI to my Dwin Transvision 3 projector and are displayed on a 92" Firehawk screen.

I notied that the picture quality for the same HD channel was poorer on my 6412 than programs recorded from OTA ATSC played on my HTPC.

At first I assumed the hardware was at fault. But then I started copying shows to my HTPC via 1394 and discovered that even when played on the same HW with the same software, the COMCAST programs lack the color depth and contrast of the OTA programs.

That leads me to believe that Comcast may be doing additional compression of local HD feeds it is sending us. Which is pretty blasphemous, in my opinion.

I exchanged email with another local who claims to have evidence that even the national cable channels are compressed. This might explain some of the surprising quality problems that I have seen in some of the HD movies I watched on Cinemax and HBO as well where the DVD transfer surpasses the HD transfer in quality.

Certainly those of us paying for HD expect the full quality that we would otherwise get if we had ATSC reception.

Folks: what do you see? Is there a way to prove that there is additional compression by comparing the same show recorded OTA and from Comcast?

Which specific show did you compare on Comcast vs. OTA?

Lost was the one that was the most stark.

I hadn't been watching it, but ABC started re-airing it from the start to catch up stragglers like me. I taped most of them on my 6412, but I missed 2 episodes. I got them from a friend who taped them OTA.

Man, there was SUCH a difference. The lush jungle scenes in the OTA version were eye-poppingly beautiful, rich green. Contrast was higher. I have been watching OTA stuff for a while, so I knew what I was seeing on my 6412 was substandard. But when I copied the contents from my 6412 to my HTPC I expected it to get better (I assumed the problem was the HW, not Comcast... after all, this is HD, they would be *crazy* to compress it because nuts like me would come out of the woodwork complaining). Truth was it didn't look any better. The raw bytes coming from COMCAST just look worse than the raw OTA bytes when all other variables are taken out of the equation.

Don't get me wrong, the output is pretty indistinguishable on my 36" Toshiba HDTV. But on my 92" Firehawk, the difference is stark.

What software are you using to play back both versions on your HTPC?

Also (not explicit in your post) I presume you & your friend's files were recorded from KOMO-104 on Comcast, and KOMO-HD OTA, respectively - and not some other ABC station or feed, right? Also the exact same episode recorded at the same time, on the same night?

It could be the 6412, and not just Comcast. Try this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4957243#post4957243

Originally posted by Tom_Oliver
It could be the 6412, and not just Comcast. Try this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4957243#post4957243 We know for sure the 6412 isn't re-compressing the HD picture locally. Why? Simple - the hardware required for real-time HD MPEG encoding currently costs between $5-10K!

To the most recent post: I agree with Jim--there is no way the 6412 is doing any additional compression.

To answer Jim's questions:

I am using MCE2005 and I have tried a variety of video codecs: NVDVD (latest), WinDVD6, and Elecard (latest) all produce similar results. I did the A/B testing with the same codecs to be sure.

Yes Iand No to the second question: I was recording 104 KOMO off of Comcast and my friend was recording KOMO-DT OTA. However, they were different episodes. I had about 7 episodes recorded on Comcast and I was missing 2 that I copied from my OTA friend. This Wednesday, I'll ask him to save Lost so I can do an A/B on the exact same scene recorded on the same night.

I'm sure many of you can do the same, too. So please post your own results!!

Originally posted by xkode2002
....I'm sure many of you can do the same, too. So please post your own results!! Unfortunately, many of us cannot. Receiving OTA-HD signals in the Puget Sound area is for the fortunate few...

The reason I asked whether it was the exact same episode is because of the informative posts here by Don Wilkinson of KOMO. It sounds like they're pretty limited by the current "state-of-the-art" for local HD: a bunch of flaky, one-off prototype gear. Which means the actual broadcast results could vary enormously from night to night, depending on which gear was broken and/or mis-configured that night. The only valid test is to compare the exact same program files, recorded via the 2 different methods. Ideally someone could do a bit-for-bit analysis of the 2 files, eliminating any viewer subjectivity.

Well, I'm not the guy to do a bit-for-bit comparison unless somebody can point me to a tool that can show compression rates, etc. But I can try to get an OTA Lost that matches one of my Comcast Lost episodes. Stay tuned...

Originally posted by jeff28
If you live in Kent and have Comcast you should be able to get the 6412. You may have spoken to a rep who was mistaken or confused. I'd call back and ask for it again.

Well according to their website, it still isn't available. But when I stopped by the Redmond office I not only got the 6412 but now I get HBO for a year and only pay 52 cents more. Thanks for getting me off my butt and into the store.

Originally posted by jimre
Unfortunately, many of us cannot. Receiving OTA-HD signals in the Puget Sound area is for the fortunate few...

The reason I asked whether it was the exact same episode is because of the informative posts here by Don Wilkinson of KOMO. It sounds like they're pretty limited by the current "state-of-the-art" for local HD: a bunch of flaky, one-off prototype gear. Which means the actual broadcast results could vary enormously from night to night, depending on which gear was broken and/or mis-configured that night. The only valid test is to compare the exact same program files, recorded via the 2 different methods. Ideally someone could do a bit-for-bit analysis of the 2 files, eliminating any viewer subjectivity.

I could do that, recording Comcast with my Fusion card, and OTA with my MyHD card, but I really don't want to mess with my Fusion setup right now since it's been working well.

I will say that visually, they appear to be idential except for color, which is presumably a result of the Moto Comcast box being different than the MyHD card's output.

Finally, I'd not that sometimes when there are issues with the OTA broadcast, using my Moto Comcast box helps, but sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't help it's not necessarily a network issue, because it could be a problem related to the KOMO feed to Comcast.

well the faded color issue is my biggest beef and that seems to happen even when I transfer the Comcast feed to my HTPC and play it there, so it's not the hardware. :( Unfortunately. I could live with it if it was the HW because I could always transfer HD content I really really want to look perfect.

If you have a Comcast box, you don't need to use your Fusion, just connect via firewire to your HTPC and transfer the file. Instructions in the HDTV Recorders forum.

I bought the Fusion card instead of going Firewire because it seemed like the more viable solution. It was either buy a firewire card and cable and hope that the software solutions would work, or buy the Fusion card which seemingly would have a greater chance of working.

As to the color, the reason the color is different on my set is that Toshibas seem to have weak greens. The MyHD card (through which I also play the Fusion files) allow you to adjust each color independently, and thus the color is better with my OTA recordings.

Well, I'm using the same video card to display HDTV OTA files that I have copied from friends and transport streams I have captured via Firewire from the 6412. So I'm using the exact same HW and settings and video codecs and display and and and... it's still worse from Comcast. Can't say why.

BTW: any old $15 firewire card will do. But I'll take it on myself to get a copy of this week's Lost from an OTA friend and if somebody points me to a place where I can throw about 200MB of files, I'll post samples of the differences. :D

Is there a way to reprogram the "All On" button to just work the TV power?

Originally posted by Go Hard
Is there a way to reprogram the "All On" button to just work the TV power?

Couldn't you just program the remote to work with your tv, then press "TV" and then "POWER" ? Seems easy enough :) Unless 2 buttons is too much work.

Anyone else having issues with 104 & 105? (abc HD and nbc HD)

All of my HD channels are fine except these 2...they are doa...

Rich

KOMOHD is present and accounted for. Nada for KINGHD, but KONGHD is up and my 6412 is currently recording KCTSHD.

thx Nausicaa...

Of course as soon as I posted...KOMOHD came back...KINGHD still missing.

I hope it comes back by 10pm as I am recording L&O SVU

Rich

Originally posted by Slev
Couldn't you just program the remote to work with your tv, then press "TV" and then "POWER" ? Seems easy enough :) Unless 2 buttons is too much work.

I have no problem with it, my wife on the other hand likes to use that button. It is the way we use the other two boxes. So when she does it in the living room, she ends up turning the tv and the vcr on and the 6412 off. Then she hits it again and she still isn't getting what she wants and then all the buttons get pushed and she gets grumpy. I was just trying to make the button useage the same for all 3 rooms.

Originally posted by boykster
thx Nausicaa...
Of course as soon as I posted...KOMOHD came back...KINGHD still missing.
I hope it comes back by 10pm as I am recording L&O SVU
Rich My wife is reporting that ALL of our HD channels are showing the wrong stuff (105 is showing 555, etc.)

Keeping an eye on it...

Well, as of 10pm last nite, my channels were back to normal....

I did have some oddities like you are reporting (mismatched channels) on my other cable box, but that resolved itself too.

Upgrades in the testing perhaps?

Rich

Well, all of our HD channels were still shuffled this evening...

I called comcast and told them about it, they were pretty confused. So we were going through the channels together and all of a sudden they locked back onto the right channel. I asked what he did and he said "not much" in a very puzzeled tone. He said he just refreshed my record, not even a full refresh of my account.

So, I guess it was some sort of computer burp.


My buddy who moved this weekend told me that Comcast said they were upgrading all of their Database servers this weekend and migrating the databases. Maybe there was a back-end burp.

Maybe it's related or not, but all the QAM digital channels got shuffled sometime this week too.

For anybody else using Comcast QAM in the Seattle area:
KCPQ (FOX): 81.1
WB: 81.2
KOMO (ABC): 82.4
PBS: 82.6
KING (NBC): 83.1
KONG: 83.2

There are others... but I got tired of crashing the Fusion3 app. :D

-eric

Comcast is reserving Maybe it's related or not, but all the QAM digital channels got shuffled sometime this week too. For anybody else using Comcast QAM in the Seattle area:
KCPQ (FOX): 81.1
WB: 81.2
KOMO (ABC): 82.4
PBS: 82.6
KING (NBC): 83.1
KONG: 83.2

There are others... but I got tired of crashing the Fusion3 app.

-eric

This is the next big phase for Comcast. They are setting up to reserve channels 62 - 256 for QAM. This is really good news because the next phase is to simulcast all of the analog channels in digital by encoding and mutiplexing at the front end. Cool!!!!

They were doing some type of upgrade this last weekend on the Cable Internet portion of their service--I received notice of that. I wonder if this is somehow related?

Is anyone seeing vertical lines on channel 104 KOMO? I noticed last night during the news and then again during the morning news. Almost the entire screen has vertical lines running up and down. Just trying to see if it is my 6412 or if it is on Comcast's or KOMO" end. I did not noticed these lines during the makeover show last night, but saw them on local and national news......

Yes, I saw them last night during the local news... They were gone later. Haven't checked this AM.

I see the vertical lines on 104 this morning. They seem to be in color, and aren't there on 4. Current garbage show is SD.

Originally posted by keithaxis
Is anyone seeing vertical lines on channel 104 KOMO? I noticed last night during the news and then again during the morning news. Almost the entire screen has vertical lines running up and down. Just trying to see if it is my 6412 or if it is on Comcast's or KOMO" end. I did not noticed these lines during the makeover show last night, but saw them on local and national news......

There is a problem with one of the video processors that creates the vertical lines. The KOMO techs are working with the manufacturer to get a repair/replacement going.

At 11:30 this morning I noticed on KOMOHD 104 vertical lines running through the entire picture, when I switched to the other HD channels the lines weren't there, anybody else getting this?

Originally posted by buddma
At 11:30 this morning I noticed on KOMOHD 104 vertical lines running through the entire picture, when I switched to the other HD channels the lines weren't there, anybody else getting this? Try reading the message immediately above yours....

The stations referenced below are scrambled on my LG LST-4200A receiver and I no longer receive KOMO on 111-4. If those are the new local QAM channels I was under the impression they were not supposed to be scrambled?

Originally posted by ericjut
Maybe it's related or not, but all the QAM digital channels got shuffled sometime this week too.

For anybody else using Comcast QAM in the Seattle area:
KCPQ (FOX): 81.1
WB: 81.2
KOMO (ABC): 82.4
PBS: 82.6
KING (NBC): 83.1
KONG: 83.2

There are others... but I got tired of crashing the Fusion3 app. :D

-eric

GeorgeHolland,

I can confirm that I'm getting all those channels unencrypted and in the clear (using QAM256).

Maybe somebody else that has an LG unit (Karyk?) could test to see if they're still able to tune the HD locals on cable?

-eric

I have an LG 3510a and a LG 3410a. I receive all of the local QAM channels Comcast carries. They are in the clear.

81 -> Kcpq & ktwb
83 -> King & Kong
82/95 -> Kcts & abc & ABCNow

GeorgeHolland,

I have both LG 4200A and 3410A. I can get on the 3410A 81-1,81-2,82-1 thru 6, and 83-1,83-2. Except for a short time this afternoon I can not get any of the 82- subchannels on my 4200A any more. This is since the Comcast switchover a few days ago. The difference I see on my 3410A with the 82- subchannels is rather odd. It used to see on the 111- subchannels during the day 111-2 and 111-3 broadcast and 111-5 was tuned but either blank or a screen saying starting at 5PM, and that was reversed when KCTS broadcast HD after 5PM. This is what I now see as I switch channels either up past 82-1 or down from 82-6 on my 3410A. Before 5PM as I go down, 82-5 shows the same broadcast as 82-6 without sound and if I change channels up 82-5 shows the same as 82-4 without sound. The same thing happens with 82-2 and 82-3 after 5PM.

Oddly, today I had planned to switch rooms with my 2 receivers and, just prior to switching, my 4200A could tune in the 82- subchannels. That was just before 5PM. After switching the receivers I again couldn't see the 82- subchannels on the 4200A and it was after 5PM. The 3410A still saw everything.

Fortunately here in Bothell I can get a reasonably solid signal thru my apartment window with a Silver Sensor all the major channels OTA so that's what I have switched to with my 4200A.

Apparently only the 4200A is exhibiting this problem since Comcast switched their carrier channels.

BTW - I did a complete rescan with both receivers just after the Comcast change.

Added - Last night at 2:05AM I was again able to see 82-1,-2,-3,-4, and -6 on my 4200A. I expect that will again change after 5PM tonite.

I hope I haven’t just thrown my money away on what I thought was the best HD receiver/QAM tuner available. Hopefully it is temporary due to the PSIP changes. Everything in the 80’s comes out as a black screen on my LG LST-4200A and labeled as scrambled. I can still get channel 13 on 110-1, 5(NBC) on 112-1, and nothing but a black screen on 111-4, where I used to receive channel 4. I have analog cable so I don’t know if that works differently than digital cable. Comcast also has told me my cable run from the street to my house has loss below spec so they are going to drop some new cable although I don’t know when. I assume that’s why I lose the signal on the channels I do get so often. I’ll have to wait until the new cable is in before I can really know where the problem is but I don’t have the same issues with the Comcast provided box I use in another room.

I usually don’t check before 5:00 but will try and do so this week.

Thanks for the responses and let me know of any changes you notice in the QAM station mapping.

George

GeorgeHolland,
Sounds like Comcast didn't switch frequencies where you are at as they did here in Bothell, just the way they feed it. Again last nite I saw the same problem I previously described, got it before 5PM - gone after 5PM. I only subscribe to analog cable as well, but years ago all service on the Eastside (and I'm sure Seattle too) switched to a new scheme which provided the capability to feed the digital signals and internet to every household.

I sympathize with you re: the 4200A not being able to decode the QAM in the evening now. I prefer the cable feed to the OTA feed I have with my indoor antenna because of stability issues I have sometimes, usually the last 2 minutes of a close game. But I have the OTA antenna capability because Comcast here doesn't provide CBS or UPN. I assume you don't want to mess around with a OTA feed?

Is this for real?

CBS in HD on channel 186?

http://www.furrygoat.com/2004/01/comcast_hdtv_ge.html

Please, please confirm ... NFC Championship on the line here! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by djmattyb
Is this for real?

CBS in HD on channel 186?

http://www.furrygoat.com/2004/01/comcast_hdtv_ge.html You might want to look at the date of that post (hint: over a year old). Also if you look at his subsequent posts he says "weird, I swear CBS-HD was there, but now it's gone..."

Sorry for the false alarm. I wondered why no one on the message board was talking about it.

I'm having some really annoying hangups with my DVR. There's a glitch where anytime I'm ff-ing a recorded program and hit stop/exit (bottom arrow key) the box will not respond and the picture freezes and hangs untill seemingly it gets to the end of the recording. No button including power on the unit will break this up. Only unplugging the unit seems to work. You can see how this would be any issue when you mistakingly hit this during FF2 on a 4 hour program.

Anytime I record 440-450 the FF is really slow and jumpy. Strange.

With all the HD movies and such I record 120gb is WAY too small. Too bad I can't chain one of my firewire HD's.

I just looked at the comcast website and it reports that the DVR service is not available in my area yet (olympia). Is there something other than the Mot 6208/6412 STB that is needed to get this service?? Seems to me that the box does all of the work, not the cable co.

El Guapo,

I wouldn't count the website as a reliable source (I had DVR service months ago and they're still not listing my area as available. Call and ask.

As far as the prereqs for PVR, I would say they're probably tied with OnDemand limitations and/or inventory of 6412s... Did you have a 5100/6200 working in your area? Was OnDemand working? Maybe it's just inventory...

-eric

the web site is out-of-date. I believe the only prerequsite at this point as that you live in a rebuilt area. If HDTV is offered at your home, DVR is available too.

the article refrenced by djmattyb has to do with CBS owned-and-operated stations. an agreement was reached for all of those about this time last year. the cox broadcasting deal is a seperate monster all together.

I couldn't guess what someone may have seen on channel 186 whenever that was published.

Originally posted by jeff28
I couldn't guess what someone may have seen on channel 186 whenever that was published. The original blog entry was written by a blogger in the San Francisco area. Our CBS HD was added in January 2004 on channel 186. Looks like the Seattle area blogger just quoted the SF area blogger and assumed the SF area blogger was talking about Seattle. (SF blogger is/was a Microsoft employee but lives in SF-- maybe that was the original source of the confusion.)

Thanks Eric and Jeff, you pretty much confirmed what i suspected. I already have a 6200 and have had HD for almost a year now and on demand started working in late Nov. so I am pretty sure it has to do with supply of the new STB. I work in federal way so I will call a local office there as well to see if they have any. I will keep you all posted.

Anyone else record American Idol tonight? I'm zipping through it and noticed almost constant pixellation during the second hour. Basically unwatchable. I did start recording an additional show during the second hour. Could this be part of the problem? The second show looked fine.

Art

Art:

Here in Sammamish, the picture on American Idol was fine last night.

I suspect your problem stemmed from recording the second show. I have had similar problems when trying to record a second show when an HD show is already recording.

I'm noticing significant pixellation during what amounts to cross-over times when recording two consecutive HD shows. The end of the first show and the beginning of the second one look pretty bad.

And, it's nearly impossible to get the 6412 to respond to commands when recording two HD shows, like during that crossover. Last night I tried two minutes early to stop a recording because I knew it could be a problem, but the 6412 didn't respond until the first recording stopped by itself a minute or two after the hour.

Originally posted by artshotwell
I'm noticing significant pixellation during what amounts to cross-over times when recording two consecutive HD shows. The end of the first show and the beginning of the second one look pretty bad.

And, it's nearly impossible to get the 6412 to respond to commands when recording two HD shows, like during that crossover. Last night I tried two minutes early to stop a recording because I knew it could be a problem, but the 6412 didn't respond until the first recording stopped by itself a minute or two after the hour.

This seems to be the worst case scenario. Actually recording two HD programs and watching and fast forwarding thru another previously recorded HD show gives this machine fits.

I have started trying to schedule recordings only one at a time for that reason however with the ridiculous default padding settings overlap still happens.

:(

And, I've started looking for alternative times for some shows, like films on HBO.

anyone else have problems with audio pops & breakups on the 6412 tonight on Lost or Alias? It happened 3 or 4 times on Lost, but seemed bad during the initial 10 minutes of Alias. I flipped over to the west coast feed of ABC from Directv and the audio (and picture) seemed fine. I'm assuming this is related to the previous posts of audio problems on KOMO. any update on when it will be resolved?

Yup, had pops early on in Alias. They seemed to end after 15 or 20 minutes, except for pops as the local station, KOMO, switched between network and local.

A couple pops on LOST last night. Had me worried for a minute, but it didn't return.

Originally posted by artshotwell
I'm noticing significant pixellation during what amounts to cross-over times when recording two consecutive HD shows. The end of the first show and the beginning of the second one look pretty bad.

And, it's nearly impossible to get the 6412 to respond to commands when recording two HD shows, like during that crossover. Last night I tried two minutes early to stop a recording because I knew it could be a problem, but the 6412 didn't respond until the first recording stopped by itself a minute or two after the hour.
It sure sounds like the 6412 is running out of horsepower (or CPU speed). You can get a similar effect on an older PC if you run too many apps at the same time. Eventually it can't keep up and will miss keystrokes or mouse activity. My guess is they put just enough CPU in the thing to "get by". Or they have some serious software flaws!

The audio dropouts on Alias and Lost were also there OTA. More of the same KOMO problems that they know about and are working on, I would assume.

I think the pixelation on the 6412 is actually a signal strength issue, even though it sounds like a processor problem. 6412 issues should be discused in the Washington 6412 thread in the HDTV Recorders section on AVS.

Hi All. New to all of the "HDTV" stuff but am already lovin' it!! Have a few questions ... and thanks to all who post here, just by reading through these posts I have already avoided a call to Comcast or Hitachi wondering about audio problems on my new TV!!

We have a new HDTV connected to Comcast in Lakewood. Have a Motorola 5100. I have noticed a couple of things and wonder if these are "normal" at this stage of HDTV roll out:

1) KOMO on 104 looks terrific, especially on the local news. I get a true HD 16:9 image. But, when I watch KING on 105, I seem to only receive a 4:3 image even though the TV says it's on 16:9 and 1080. Is this normal? (I did see a full screen 16:9 image on ER last night so I am sort of assuming the TV and Comcast are OK.)

2) I have noted some audio problems on the non-HD channels (such as Fox News) with audio out of sync slightly. Seems to come and go. I am assuming that this is a source issue and not something wrong with my TV or the cable box. (Noticeable because I have not noticed lip sync issues on my old TV and non-digital cable hookup.

Thanks in advance for any comments. I am not very up to speed on HDTV yet and look forward to learning from y'all!!

Ken

TacJag,

Welcome to the world of HD. :)

1. The image that you're getting watching KING-105 is 1080i 16:9, not doubt about that. But the content is sometimes just SD (standard definition) upscaled to HD. The easiest way to spot that is that it's in 4:3 format. Also, sometimes, even though a show is supposed to be in HD, the channel may forget to "flip the switch" to HD and you get an upscaled SD signal. Finally, KING's local news is probably the weirdest HD show you can watch right now, because even within the studio, they keep switching back and forth between HD and SD cameras, which results in switching from 16:9 to 4:3 back to 16:9 sometimes several times a minute.

2) If you're talking about channel 48 (FOX News), it's an analog chanel, and the one thing that comes to mind would be that the deinterlacer on your TV (or the cable box if you're using it) is adding a slight delay on your video. Is it only a few channels, or all of them randomly? Here are a few things you could try next time you experience it:
1. Try to plug the cable directly to your TV and see if it's reproducable. If so, you know it's the channel or the TV.
2. If you have an option, turn off the deinterlacer on your TV and try to reproduce it.
3. If you didn't try it yet, change the "Override to 480i" option in the service menu of your 5100 (do a search on this thread about it). For example, if you choose 480i (default), that means the cable box is sending the signal in 480i and your TV is probably doing the deinterlacing. But if you choose 480p, your cable box would deinterlace for you, thus maybe fixing this problem. Worth playing a little bit with it.

Anyways... hope this helps. :)

-eric

Originally posted by quarque
It sure sounds like the 6412 is running out of horsepower (or CPU speed). You can get a similar effect on an older PC if you run too many apps at the same time. Eventually it can't keep up and will miss keystrokes or mouse activity. My guess is they put just enough CPU in the thing to "get by". Or they have some serious software flaws!

More likely it's the disk than the CPU. When you record two shows and watch a third show it's trying to write to three parts of the disk at once. If you've paused the live TV then it's also reading from a 4th part of the disk. As you fill up the disk and erase files over and over again, those 3-4 parts might be scattered and fragmented from one end of the disk to the other, forcing the disk head to frantically seek back and forth trying to read and write all that data at once.

The CPU doesn't have to do much work to simply read and write the data. HDTV and digital channels are already compressed and even the analog channels are probably compressed by a dedicated chip for each tuner rather than the CPU.

--
Steve

I can see recording two programs simultaneously as there are two tuners. Perhaps you can watch a recorded program while recording another but how do you record two programs simultaneously and watch a third when ther are only two tuners?

What am I missing here?

Babula

The show being watched is a previously recorded show.

Originally posted by burger23
Babula

The show being watched is a previously recorded show.

Yeah, but Babula did point out a mistake I made. You can be recording two shows and watching a third, but it wouldn't be buffering what you're watching so that would only involve writing two files and reading a third at the same time rather than writing three and reading one. It's still a lot of work for a single hard disk to do.

--
Steve

Hopefully these are performance bugs that further refinement and optimization can overcome.

The HD TiVo manages to accomplish simultaneous record 2, watch 1, with no hiccups, although it does sometimes get bogged down when also trying to handle inputs from the remote. I would rather wait for the user interface to respond than have the programs being recorded ending up with pixelation or dropouts.

My guess is that these bugs will be overcome with time. Welcome to the world of Beta testing.

Originally posted by jameskollar
Comcast is reserving

This is the next big phase for Comcast. They are setting up to reserve channels 62 - 256 for QAM. This is really good news because the next phase is to simulcast all of the analog channels in digital by encoding and mutiplexing at the front end. Cool!!!!

Are you sure? Because that would great as long as the bitrate was decent.

Is anyone else watching the folks over on the "San Francisco - Comcast" thread talk about Comcast and Cox coming to an end to their dispute? They have a bit more at stake because their Cox owned local is Fox and they really want to be able to watch the superbowl in HD; but I'm wondering if this will have any effect for us and KIRO going HD on Comcast here in the next couple of weeks, too!? What do you guys think?

-- Alex

I emailed somebody at KIRO and told him about the SF Chronicle reports of an impending deal between Cox and Comcast and got the following reply:
That is very interesting. I hadn't heard anything about it until you sent me this.

I checked around and there is a deal rumored to be in the works. I personally cannot imagine a deal that would include one Cox market and not all the others.

Thanks for the info and I'll try to remember to tell you if I hear anything new. So, it appears KIRO is likely on the way too.

Originally posted by jhachey
So, it appears KIRO is likely on the way too. [/B]

I'll believe it when I see it :). I've kept my hopes up for way too long based off of rumors like this that I don't trust anything anymore :). If it does happen, it's really a shame that they waited until after the football season to figure something out. That's the only reason to watch CBS - for football. Won't do anyone any good now until next year ;)

The Cox-Comcast deal for KTVU hasn't been signed yet, AFAIK, but it's definitely NOT a rumor. Unless there is some totally unforeseen complication, it is now only a matter of dotting the i's and crossing the t's.

Whether the deal is a national one and includes KIRO's digital/HD signal is for you guys to find out. However, like the KIRO representative, I would be very surprised if Comcast and Cox did not include other markets with this deal, especially after all the time, effort and money that has been spent putting the deal together.

Also, when Comcast reaches these types of deals, they invariably encompass all the stations owned by the contracting party. So Comcast would be doing things very differently from what it has done historically if KIRO were not included.

Originally posted by ianken
Are you sure? Because that would great as long as the bitrate was decent.


When the tech installed my 6412 on New Year's Eve, I asked him about the quality of the analog broadcasts. He admitted that the quality was poorer compared to the other Motorola box, but that Comcast in the next 4-6 months would be upgrading all the analog stations to digital, so in the long run it wouldn't matter.

Originally posted by Runco One
When the tech installed my 6412 on New Year's Eve, I asked him about the quality of the analog broadcasts. He admitted that the quality was poorer compared to the other Motorola box, but that Comcast in the next 4-6 months would be upgrading all the analog stations to digital, so in the long run it wouldn't matter. Yeah, that's the theory. We'll see if/when it actually happens.

I'd love to hear that this deal went through. I hope there isn't a prolonged national rollout. Just because KIRO doesn't have the superbowl doesn't mean they should take their sweet time hooking up. It sounds like they haven't even started preparing to implement in advance of the deal if folks from KIRO hadn't even heard of it. :(

Originally posted by ianken
Are you sure? Because that would great as long as the bitrate was decent.

I can confirm (thought I already had) that reliable sources at Comcast say progress is already being made to begin simulcasting many popular analog channels on digital tiers. I don't know anything about the bit-rate, but the whole purpose of this is so that people with 6412's can watch/record these channels without having to deal with the poor PQ of analog on that box. It will happen sooner rather than later, as soon as possible with estimates being anywhere from between next month and this summer. Unfortunately, I can't get any better info on the Cox Broadcasting deal than we already have. Keeping my fingers crossed...

I can confirm (thought I already had) that reliable sources at Comcast say progress is already being made to begin simulcasting many popular analog channels on digital tiers.

Seattle is in 1 of 8 initial markets that Comcast is working on digital simulcast. Although I am not completely up on what all this means the following was relayed to me:

There are four major inititiatives under way and will happen in the following order:

1) 64 - 256 QAM Conversion (Spectrum Aquisition)

2) Anlog to Digital Encoding and Multiplexing

3) Network Convergence

4) Upgrading Ad insertion.

If I understand what the person was trying to tell me, by step 2 digital simulcast signals will be available.

Comcast must know they are getting their behinds kicked by the poor quality of their analog signals. I wonder how many dish owners decided to give cable a try and switched back again because of the analog PQ problem.

It is Comcasts digital channels where the quality is shocking. I hope the analog locals I get (which look far far better than digital channels like BBC America etc) don't get overcompressed like all the other digital channels.

Originally posted by pdampier
It is Comcasts digital channels where the quality is shocking. I hope the analog locals I get (which look far far better than digital channels like BBC America etc) don't get overcompressed like all the other digital channels. Your statement is generally true, unless you're using a 6412 box. There the analog PQ takes a huge nose dive and becomes noticeably worse than the digital channels. This is due to 1) signal loss from internal splitter used to drive dual tuners, and 2) even when watching analog channels "live", you're actually watching the results of local MPEG2-compression (to enable "trick play" via hard disk). IMHO, that looks even worse than the compression used at the head-end on many digital channels.

Wide to 4:3 .. lots of switching
Hi everyone.

I got a HD Motorola STB from Comcast today and the tech hooked it up to my Samsung HLP4663. At first, the quality looked like CRAP, but then I realized that the input wasn't set right. After I reset that to component - I switched on Discovery HD (663) and was blown away. AWESOME picture.

however, b/c its 16:9 or widescreen as well as the other HD channels (ESPN / INHD, etc), I had to set my TV to wide picture mode.

but everytime I switch over to a STV feed, like MTV or FSN .. it doesn't auto switch over to 4:3 and the picture looks stretched.

It becomes a pain having to do it manually (as I switch back and forth btw channels a LOT)..

Anyone know of a quick fix? whether we can program 1 button on the remote to switch the picture on the TV or an auto switch function based on channels?

Thanks for everyone's input.

JB

Power STB off
Hit the Menu button on the remote
This brings up the User Settings.
First is TV type, which you set to 16:9
Then YPbPr, which should be 720p or 1080i
Then 4:3 Override -- set this to Off and the SD picture won't stretch.

Originally posted by wareagle
Power STB off
Hit the Menu button on the remote
This brings up the User Settings.
First is TV type, which you set to 16:9
Then YPbPr, which should be 720p or 1080i
Then 4:3 Override -- set this to Off and the SD picture won't stretch.

thanks. it did the trick.

What do you know: A new show - NUMB3RS - is going to premier tonight on CBS! Hmmm, I guess the would be KIRO?

Sorry I'll miss it!

(funny note: On the cover of the TV Times, they state that the show premiers at "approximately 7:00"). They hear is but don't listen...

Originally posted by Runco One
When the tech installed my 6412 on New Year's Eve, I asked him about the quality of the analog broadcasts. He admitted that the quality was poorer compared to the other Motorola box, but that Comcast in the next 4-6 months would be upgrading all the analog stations to digital, so in the long run it wouldn't matter.

Hmmm. FWIW my analogs are actually quite good. No ghosting and not too much fuzz. They are a bit soft.

However, I get SciFi and other "basic cable" feeds on my big dish and it would be nice if the digital versions Comcast plans to put up come kinda close to their analog masters.

Originally posted by rverginia

(funny note: On the cover of the TV Times, they state that the show premiers at "approximately 7:00"). They hear is but don't listen...
that's because of the AFC championship game today - it might go OT.

There is a problem with numbers. They will be "small".

Originally posted by jimre
Your statement is generally true, unless you're using a 6412 box. There the analog PQ takes a huge nose dive and becomes noticeably worse than the digital channels. This is due to 1) signal loss from internal splitter used to drive dual tuners, and 2) even when watching analog channels "live", you're actually watching the results of local MPEG2-compression (to enable "trick play" via hard disk). IMHO, that looks even worse than the compression used at the head-end on many digital channels.

I have the non-DVR version of the Moto box (I don't remember the number, but it's the HD box that looks identical to the new DVR box), and the analog locals are really poor. No internal splitter or trick play on that box. I've not tried hooking the cable directly to my set, but I do recall a few years ago when I cancelled cable and went to DirecTV, that DirecTV's locals were far and away better than through cable. And as I've mentioned before, my Comcast system is relatively new (they rewired the area about 3-5 years ago).

I also have 2 of the non-DVR HD boxes (6200) and one DVR box (6412). The analog PQ is just fine on the 6200s. It sucks big time on the 6412, mainly for the reasons I stated in my previous post. If you have poor analog PQ, then it's probably a signal problem rather than the 6200 box - could be in your house, in your neighborhood, etc.

I guess my point was that however good (or bad) your analog PQ is with the 6200 -- it will be noticably worse with the 6412, due to the extra split and the DVR's MPEG compression.

jim,

on another subject... are any of your boxes in the same room? I'm wondering whether the remote can be changed to use different codes to control two 6412s independently - do you know?

Just finished watching Lost from last week. I swear the audio problems are just driving me up the wall. The show really shows off the HD capabilities of my Samsung but the audio problems made my wife say 'What's the story with this HD stuff?'

I reported these problems last week and the gentelman here on the board recommended to turn audio compression off. I did that but it seems that the drop out is not caused locally but rather no audio gets transmitted over the wire.
As usual, this seems to happen every time something important gets said...

hinten: look for posts from Don Wilkins (sp?) from KOMO. These are problems that affect ATSC (over the air) broadcasts as well. It has nothing to do with Comcast. KOMO is working on isolating and solving the problem, but at least as of last week's LOST, they apparently haven't solved it.

Originally posted by brente
jim,

on another subject... are any of your boxes in the same room? I'm wondering whether the remote can be changed to use different codes to control two 6412s independently - do you know? Nope - all in different rooms. If I *were* to put them in the same room (say, the main home distribution rack in the basement) I'd probably solve the problem by using an IR output device with discrete, addressable emitters. Most major HA systems (AMX, Crestron) have these, but I think also Xantech makes some more generic ones. Global Cache makes some cool ones that are controlled via TCP/IP over ethernet.

Originally posted by jimre
Nope - all in different rooms. If I *were* to put them in the same room (say, the main home distribution rack in the basement) I'd probably solve the problem by using an IR output device with discrete, addressable emitters. Most major HA systems (AMX, Crestron) have these, but I think also Xantech makes some more generic ones. Global Cache makes some cool ones that are controlled via TCP/IP over ethernet.

thanks. yeah, I was afraid I'd have to go this route. would be nice if the moto boxes could change the ir receiver code like the directv tivo boxes can...

Last week when recording Lost and Alias, the ONLY part of Alias actually recorded was the 90 second cross over period between the two shows. The recording data in the guide said it was an hour and some minutes long but the recording was actually only 90 seconds (it stopped right as Alias started). I have since begun recording the SD broadcast on my trusty four-year-old ReplayTV which has crashed maybe a half dozen times in it's lifetime.

This was pretty annoying but I have come to accept the 6412 as the buggy, beta product that it is. IMHO, paying to be a beta tester may seem strange but timeshifting HD is pretty cool (when it works).

I'm confused and annoyed by the amazing disappearing, reappearing availability of ABC HD on Comcast's system. I used to get ABC on 111-4 and it has since moved (this month) to 82-4. The problem is sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not. Last night, nothing; this morning, the ABC morning new was there as well as KOMO local news. NBC doesn't seem to have this problem nor FOX. Anyone have a glimpse or insight on why this is happening?

Originally posted by 2banana
This was pretty annoying but I have come to accept the 6412 as the buggy, beta product that it is. IMHO, paying to be a beta tester may seem strange but timeshifting HD is pretty cool (when it works).
I'm afraid Microsoft set the standard years ago and now, it seems, everyone is trying to emulate their business plan.

Originally posted by artshotwell
I'm afraid Microsoft set the standard years ago and now, it seems, everyone is trying to emulate their business plan.

Hey, no badmouthing MSFT in the Seattle forum! :)

Seriously, aren't these things running MSFT software now?

Originally posted by Karyk
Seriously, aren't these things running MSFT software now?
Yup...but they're not the only ones selling beta software, then charging to fix it.

Originally posted by artshotwell
Yup...but they're not the only ones selling beta software, then charging to fix it.

Actually, MSFT seldom charges for updates, and none of the bug fix variety (just the major revision--create a bunch of new bugs variety). And I cut them a lot of slack in the PC area. They don't know what hardware/software you're running. For example, my HTPC crashed twice where it needed a complete reinstall (and once where the hard drive was so messed up the install program couldn't access it). Turned out it was a combination of two non-certified drivers (especially one for a Belkin wireless adaptor) and a bad stick of memory. Hardly MSFT's fault that companies can't write decent drivers and users ignore the non-certified driver warning.

But on these Comcast machines they don't have that excuse. They know the hardware. They know the software.

Dubois-WA,
If you have a LG 4200A you are experiencing the same problem others here have noted. The problem appears to be the way Comcast has changed their transmission of the 82- subchannels. From 2AM until 5PM 82-2 and 82-3 have KCTS broadcast and during this time period the 4200A can see 82-1, -2, -3, -4, and -6. From 5PM until 2AM KCTS starts their HD feed which is on 82-5 and cuts off feeds that Comcast broadcasts on 82-2 and -3. This is not new, they have been doing this for a long time when it was on channel 111. What is new is what is seen by my 3410A. Anyway, now during this time the 4200A can't tune in any of the 82- subchannels. My 3410A can see them all is why I know what is happening (on the surface). Instead of seeing a blank screen during the after 5PM time period on 82-2 and -3 I see whatever is on 82-1 or 82-4 depending on whether I am tuning up or down to get to the 82-3 channel. But there is no sound. Don't know what this means from a technical standpoint, but for some reason the 4200A doesn't understand how to decode the subchannels after 5PM.

I fortunately have rather decent OTA reception so it doesn't bother me that much. It does make me wonder how viable my 4200A is long term tho..

I actually posted something very similar to this under the HDTV Recorder forum. I too experienced the issue with Lost and Alias the last two Wednesdays. I suspect it may have something to do with the odd start/end times ABC uses and the software's inability to deal with it.

I setup the same situation last Thursday with CSI and Without A Trace. Both shows started on the hour and recorded successfully.

This Wed I'm setting both Lost and Alias to record an extra 60 minutes. Hopefully one or both will then pick up the full Alias show.

Thanks for the suggestion, Thordad!

In the case of non-critical software (i.e. it's not running a heart pump or an airplane) I can tolerate a fair deal of buginess if it means getting the product in my hands sooner then later. How many of us picked up the 6412 within the first week of it being available? I can't imagine we would have wanted to wait through a much longer bug find/fix phase before getting this unit.