FYI: NTIA rules released this week say ANYONE can request coupons starting 1Jan2008
(FCFS) until first $990 Mil is gone and then they restrict to TV-Only households:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/press/2007/DTVfinalrule_031207.htm
Still at issue is whether the second $510 Mil is adequate or not to reimburse ALL NTSC
viewers for the loss of their ("free") signal....

I was reading the article at http://www.tvpredictions.com/dtvrules031207.htm and I went back and reread and see my error. I see the inital money running out quickly ... My biggest issue is that I am paying for everyone else's boxes, but that's another story all together ...

I read that Comcast asked to an extension on the change this July and was denied. I'm confused if the purpose was to eliminate leased equipment or just allow user equipment also. I think my brain has been overloaded with information lately!

Thanks holl_ands

[QUOTE=holl_ands]COMCAST said they'll keep 20-40 analogs until at least 2011, when they will go all digital:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6337395.html
.
.
.
QUOTE]

Actually it says they have "debated" the 20-40 analogs not that they "decided" to do that. They want to see what happens between 2009 and 2011 with consumers. I'd be surprised if there are any analogs left in 2011 since economics rule the corporate world.

Has anyone else noticed a decline in the quality of their HD lately? I noticed a lot of shimmering effects on both "Lost" on Wed. and "Raines" last night. Don't know if it's a Comcast, network, or local affiliate issue. Scenes with a lot of fine background detail like tree leaves or screen doors had the same shimmering we're used to from old composite sources.

Has anyone else noticed a decline in the quality of their HD lately? I noticed a lot of shimmering effects on both "Lost" on Wed. and "Raines" last night. Don't know if it's a Comcast, network, or local affiliate issue. Scenes with a lot of fine background detail like tree leaves or screen doors had the same shimmering we're used to from old composite sources.

I have... I've seen more pixelation, and on rewinding and looking at some content (especially some of the NCAA games on CBS) I've noticed some really lower quality HD broadcasts. Maybe I'll try an look at OTA broadcasts to see if they are doing the same thing.

I have... I've seen more pixelation, and on rewinding and looking at some content (especially some of the NCAA games on CBS) I've noticed some really lower quality HD broadcasts. Maybe I'll try an look at OTA broadcasts to see if they are doing the same thing.

The OTA NCAA games look just as bad. Very bit-starved HD pictures. The wide shots look ok, but anything tight with a crowd in the background is very pixelated.

The OTA NCAA games look just as bad. Very bit-starved HD pictures. The wide shots look ok, but anything tight with a crowd in the background is very pixelated.KIRO always reduces the bandwidth of their network programming, to make room for their multicast traffic channel. This results in a more pixelated picture, esp when large parts of the picture change rapidly (like closeups). To show multiple games during the Final Four, I think they are now multicasting an additional channel - reducing the bandwidth even further. This is KIRO's choice - nothing Comcast can do about it.

I'm very curious about the Tivo Comcast Box that has been mentioned a couple of times.
As a longtime Tivo user, I am disappointed with Comcast's (Microsoft Enhanced) DVR. The buttons are not as responsive as Tivo, the menus are not as intuitive and I have to set up the Sonics to record on both 664 and 30 instead of just a single Season Pass. Not to mention the fact that it will shut off suddenly for no reason and re-boot itself in the middle of a show a few times a week. I've had my Tivo for two years and it's had to reboot maybe once

So, is this rumor true? Will I be able to have the Tivo interface on my comcast Motorola HD-DVR STB??

Lastly -- wtf?? sorry, but this QAM situation is ridiculous, all of a sudden my JVC TV's built-in QAM Tuner won't work anymore and Comcast and the TV manufacturer have no idea what is going on? This reeks of a mulderesque conspiracy to force me to rent a 2nd box. and if it's anything like the first box (see above). Ok, that's the end of my rant. Have a nice day

...Not to mention the fact that it will shut off suddenly for no reason and re-boot itself in the middle of a show a few times a week....

Spontaneous rebooting is a definite bug with firmware 12.35, so if you want to get rid of it you can call Comcast and have them revert your box to 12.31.

I'm very curious about the Tivo Comcast Box that has been mentioned a couple of times.
As a longtime Tivo user, I am disappointed with Comcast's (Microsoft Enhanced) DVR. The buttons are not as responsive as Tivo, the menus are not as intuitive and I have to set up the Sonics to record on both 664 and 30 instead of just a single Season Pass. Not to mention the fact that it will shut off suddenly for no reason and re-boot itself in the middle of a show a few times a week. I've had my Tivo for two years and it's had to reboot maybe once

So, is this rumor true? Will I be able to have the Tivo interface on my comcast Motorola HD-DVR STB??
This is beyond mere rumor. The Comcast/Tivo deal is public, and the tivo/moto solution has been Demoed at CES:

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2007-01/the-comcast-motorola-tivo-ces/

This is beyond mere rumor. The Comcast/Tivo deal is public, and the tivo/moto solution has been Demoed at CES:

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2007-01/the-comcast-motorola-tivo-ces/

But it's at least a year behind schedule at this point. Tivo probably under-estimated what what a POC the MOTO box was.

But it's at least a year behind schedule at this point. Tivo probably under-estimated what what a POC the MOTO box was.

That's too bad about the schedule. I've had Tivos for 3+ years now and I have resisted the urge to get the Moto DVR box because I was afraid I would toss it out the window in frustration. Tivos have a great interface and rarely act up or need rebooting. Mine are networked on my home wireless LAN and work very well together. I hope the new Moto box lives up to the Tivo reputation. But another year!!! I can resist... I can resist...

I meant they should have been out almost a year ago. I'm not suggesting it will be another year before they're out. But over a year ago some were predicting that they'd never be out, because Tivo was attempting the impossible (making an OK DVR out of the MOTO box).

Wow, I'll be first in line to order this Tivo software upgrade if/when available. I just want to be able to record my fav shows in HD and I like the two tuner recording feature. I just can't stand the "bugginess" of the hardware/software on this MOTO box. I've only been upgraded to the comcast HD-DVR for a few weeks, ever since I got my new HD TV, so the change from the Tivo was a big shock (especially for my wife who isn't normally prone to cursing at the TV). Call me greedy, but now that I'm in the HD world, I want many more HD channels and HD programming, and I want to (affordably) record HD shows and as long as I'm being greedy -- I want the Tivo home networking functions to be enabled on the comcast box too.

Oh yeah, and how about Comcast fixing whatever they did to kill the HD channels coming in via the QAM tuner on my JVC. Happy St. Pat's day

Am I the only one not getting HD for the NCAA games this afternoon? I just got in a while ago and for the since that time the games have been letterboxed on 107.

Thanks

Coverage will vary between SD and HD. The WSU-Vandy game is in HD.

Coverage will vary between SD and HD. The WSU-Vandy game is in HD.
I'm getting the WSU game in SD on Comcast.

I'm getting the WSU game in SD on Comcast.

On 107? It's HD here. 6:38 to go.

On 107? It's HD here. 6:38 to go. The first half was not in HD. They finally switched at halftime, or right around this time.

Kiro is broadcasting some of the worst HD I have ever seen. Terrible pixelizing. The OTA signal is a little better than the Comcast version, but not much. These games would look 100% better on ESPN-HD, FOX-HD or INHD. That being said, they would probably look worse on King. As for locals, KOMO and FOX looks the best.

Am I the only one not getting HD for the NCAA games this afternoon? I just got in a while ago and for the since that time the games have been letterboxed on 107.

Thanks


I think HD can be letterboxed, its n ot all widescreen ...

I have been using a DVICO Fusion HDTV card to watch KCTS HD broadcasts over COMCAST.

As of this morning - the card shows no digital channels - analog still OK

Is it my card or is it Comcast???

I have been using a DVICO Fusion HDTV card to watch KCTS HD broadcasts over COMCAST.

As of this morning - the card shows no digital channels - analog still OK

Is it my card or is it Comcast???

Just re-scanned all QAM channels - and it appears that Comcast has re-assigned the HD channels - at least here on Mercer Island.

New "free" HD lineup:

Name Affiliation QAM channel

KSTW HD CW11 D11
KCPQ HD FOX D13
KING HD NBC D51
KOMO HD ABC D820
KCTS HD PBS D823
KIRO HD CBS D860

I wonder how long this will last :-)

The first half was not in HD. They finally switched at halftime, or right around this time.

Kiro is broadcasting some of the worst HD I have ever seen. Terrible pixelizing. The OTA signal is a little better than the Comcast version, but not much. These games would look 100% better on ESPN-HD, FOX-HD or INHD. That being said, they would probably look worse on King. As for locals, KOMO and FOX looks the best.

It's the multicasting--that ruins it.

The first half was not in HD. They finally switched at halftime, or right around this time.

Kiro is broadcasting some of the worst HD I have ever seen. Terrible pixelizing. The OTA signal is a little better than the Comcast version, but not much. These games would look 100% better on ESPN-HD, FOX-HD or INHD. That being said, they would probably look worse on King. As for locals, KOMO and FOX looks the best.Yes, and the game on Thursday was downconverted and pillarboxed for the entire game. Not only that, they didn't switch back to widescreen HD until the next time slot. I heard it was some kind of CBS-driven thing that required constant feeds from a game site to be in SD, but based on what others were saying from different parts of the country it was not consistently applied. Others were getting their local team's entire game in HD.

IMO, the multicasting didn't work well at all. I had hours and hours of channel 7 and channel 117 (7-2) recorded to go through that were 80% duplicates of what I had already watched on 107 (7-1). I've never seen any PQ as good as the first year CBS broadcast selected NCAA regional sites commercial-free. Those were the true days of HDTV - it may be a long time before we ever see programming and PQ like that again!

Is anyone else noticing an increased problem with the audio sync problem on Letterman (107)? The audio is behind the picture which means my receiver can't make an adjustment since it will only allow me to slow down the audio. Last night I noticed that after the last commercial, the remaining minute of Letterman was in SD with the pillar boxes on the sides. The audio was then perfect!

Any ideas? Is this still the state of the art?

Someone once wrote that he didn't have this problem when he switched to the DVI input. Would switching to HDMI solve this problem? I currently run the 3416 to my 34XBR800 through component cables and optical audio.

My 32" Sceptre LCD has been doing a funny thing recently with Comcast-some of the channels are showing video, but then the audio is from the next channel over. Any ideas?

Art- It may be a KIRO HD issue. I've noticed lip sync problems on other shows like "How I met your mother". I have Dish Network, so it's not isolated to Comcast.

brownnet

Is anyone else noticing an increased problem with the audio sync problem on Letterman (107)? The audio is behind the picture which means my receiver can't make an adjustment since it will only allow me to slow down the audio. Last night I noticed that after the last commercial, the remaining minute of Letterman was in SD with the pillar boxes on the sides. The audio was then perfect!

Any ideas? Is this still the state of the art?

Someone once wrote that he didn't have this problem when he switched to the DVI input. Would switching to HDMI solve this problem? I currently run the 3416 to my 34XBR800 through component cables and optical audio.

My 32" Sceptre LCD has been doing a funny thing recently with Comcast-some of the channels are showing video, but then the audio is from the next channel over. Any ideas?

What is your audio connection, what box do you have, what options do you have selected, what channels are affected, and when does it occur?

What is your audio connection, what box do you have, what options do you have selected, what channels are affected, and when does it occur?

No box. Cable plugs directly into the tv and the QAM tuner sniffed out the HD channels. Standard audio with no surround sound, just the tv. This Sceptre has a wacky channel arrangement like 80.1, 80.2, etc. whereas my Pioneer goes from 02-999.
Keep in mind that I have changed nothing and this has just recently popped up.

A friend of a friend tells me there's a lawsuit being planned against Comcast for their illegal blocking of the non-scrambled HD channels. There's no logical reason that the built-in QAM Tuners on many HD sets should "suddenly" not be able to tune in the HD channels.

Maybe some legal action will get their attention.

I'm surprised that there's not more outrage at this. We appear (and I include myself) to simply accept the fact that Comcast can make these behind the scene changes that render our expensive HDTV tuners functionless. Sure, all you need to do is rent a box from Comcast right? Let's see $5 a month x thousands of users (perhaps millions nationally) , seems like a pretty good revenue generator.

Your thoughts? or is no one still having this problem?

While the say you can spend $5 to get a box for HD, the reality is many times they pressure you to subscribe to digital service. Sometimes they even insist that you have to get digital service. So you end up paying $20 or $25 more per month. As a plus, with digital service, you get more HD channels, like ESPN-HD, INHD and others.

What I'm saying is the $5 you mention isn't a slam dunk. They might try to gouge your for a digital subscription.

That being said, another thing I like about digital is the channel guide.

KIRO HD and SD and KONG finally map out where they should be at 7.1, 7.2 and 16.1 respectively.

So I am a "broadcast only" subscriber to Comcast, and it looks like I lost all my HD channels :(

Normally I just use the QAM tuner on my TV, and when Comcast randomly changes the digital channel order I deal with it, reset my favorites and continue on. But I am not seeing any HD channels over the QAM tuner now, did Comcast kill them or am I just missing them somewhere?

Also, I used to get Discovery channel on channel 8 analog, but now I just get a frozen picture...

KIRO HD and SD and KONG finally map out where they should be at 7.1, 7.2 and 16.1 respectively.
Same here is Redmond

KIRO HD maps to 7-1
KIRO SD map to 7-2
KONG HD maps to 16-1

All HD and SD digital broadcast channels map correctly for me now. WooHoo.

So I am a "broadcast only" subscriber to Comcast, and it looks like I lost all my HD channels :(

Normally I just use the QAM tuner on my TV, and when Comcast randomly changes the digital channel order I deal with it, reset my favorites and continue on. But I am not seeing any HD channels over the QAM tuner now, did Comcast kill them or am I just missing them somewhere?

Also, I used to get Discovery channel on channel 8 analog, but now I just get a frozen picture...
Sounds like something is hinky with your hardware because DISC is still on analog 8 and looks fine. Unless they put something type of filter on the line.

While the say you can spend $5 to get a box for HD, the reality is many times they pressure you to subscribe to digital service. Sometimes they even insist that you have to get digital service. So you end up paying $20 or $25 more per month. As a plus, with digital service, you get more HD channels, like ESPN-HD, INHD and others.

What I'm saying is the $5 you mention isn't a slam dunk. They might try to gouge your for a digital subscription.

That being said, another thing I like about digital is the channel guide.
I wanted the DVR service with Limited Basic.

They told me I had to get Expanded Basic + Digital Service + Box.

I now have Limited Basic and pay the extra money to Tivo instead.

A friend of a friend tells me there's a lawsuit being planned against Comcast for their illegal blocking of the non-scrambled HD channels. There's no logical reason that the built-in QAM Tuners on many HD sets should "suddenly" not be able to tune in the HD channels.

Maybe some legal action will get their attention.

I'm surprised that there's not more outrage at this. We appear (and I include myself) to simply accept the fact that Comcast can make these behind the scene changes that render our expensive HDTV tuners functionless. Sure, all you need to do is rent a box from Comcast right? Let's see $5 a month x thousands of users (perhaps millions nationally) , seems like a pretty good revenue generator.

Your thoughts? or is no one still having this problem?

I live in Capitol Hill and my three QAM tuners work fine. Yes, things were totally screwed up for a few days, but they seem to be working fine now.

Comcast is actually trying to do the RIGHT thing. They are now sending the PSIP data so the free QAM channels map properly. i.e. NBC is now 5.1 instead of 85.2.

Look here if you don't know was PSIP means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSIP

It sounds to me like Comcast in this area is cleaning up their passing of PSIP data.

I would hope their ultimate goal includes all logical channel numbers so users don't have to always use 8x.x (etc.) to find digital channel 4 or 5 or whatever.

I appreciate folks reporting these changes as they occur, since I "support" some distant family members using QAM tuners without any cable boxes. For now, at my home, I am OTA for local digital channels and DirecTV for other channels.
It looks like my wish has come true.

The last two years have been quite painful when trying to support HD viewing with external QAM tuners, with Comcast continually shifting native/real digital cable subchannels around.

Now it sounds like the compatible receivers will give us the same PSIP-guided logical channel numbers, as if they had been received OTA.

Now we need them to work on PSIP-based program guide data also since it is part of the free OTA broadcast signal. IMHO, that would meet the spirit and intent of the cable companies being required to pass through the local area OTA digital channels.

you know how there's all those "calibrating" discs and such to put on your dvd player. Is there a channel for this on Comcast?

http://www.inhd.com/product.jsp?prodId=23585&mp=cb2
Sundays 7 am ET on dates shown, assuming you can get INHD. If Comcast and HDNet ever smoke the peace pipe, there's a better series of HDNet patterns (IMO) Sundays at 6:50 am ET. -- John

Threads merged.

All home games plus some road games.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/comcasthd032207.htm

My girlfriend has been watching the "Jumong" series on AZN, ch70 analog. On Tuesday, a barker showed up saying that this channel would go digital on Wednesday! Sure enough, it is now (still on 70) a part of the Digital Plus package!
Thanks Comcast :mad:

All home games plus some road games.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/comcasthd032207.htm

What channel will those be found on?

What channel will those be found on?

664 on Comcast

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/21/seattle-mariners-games-to-be-in-hd-this-season/

It looks like my wish has come true.

The last two years have been quite painful when trying to support HD viewing with external QAM tuners, with Comcast continually shifting native/real digital cable subchannels around.

Now it sounds like the compatible receivers will give us the same PSIP-guided logical channel numbers, as if they had been received OTA.

Now we need them to work on PSIP-based program guide data also since it is part of the free OTA broadcast signal. IMHO, that would meet the spirit and intent of the cable companies being required to pass through the local area OTA digital channels.

I've been without QAM tuner channels for at least three weeks now in Sammamish. sounds like it's getting fixed one neighborhood at a time... anybody else in Sammamish or nearby still not getting the HD?

My girlfriend has been watching the "Jumong" series on AZN, ch70 analog. On Tuesday, a barker showed up saying that this channel would go digital on Wednesday! Sure enough, it is now (still on 70) a part of the Digital Plus package!
Thanks Comcast :mad:
Curious if anyone has found it floating around on an open QAM channel now however. Just as they moved the TV Guide to the digital package, I can still access that one through my Fusion card.

it is now (still on 70) a part of the Digital Plus package!

AZN moved to Digital Classic, the step below Plus.

On a another note, Copy Protection has been enabled for the premium networks like HBO, Showtime, TMC, and Cinemax. If your cable cards have not been paired (correctly) now's the time to do it. I have lost the ability to record now to my PC with Firewire as it does not support the encryption.

Premium services are now set for a one generation copy (i.e. I can record onto my DVR but then I can't copy it again)
On Demand, Music Choice, and PPV are set to never copy
All else set to copy freely

Applies to only digital copies, analog (composite, s-video, component, or coax) will all work. This affects Firewire, HDMI, and I think DVI copies.

PSIP Guide information off by an hour

Has anyone else noticed that the program information in the PSIP data is off by an hour? For instance a show that is supposed to be on at 8pm is listed as being on a 7pm?

PSIP Guide information off by an hour

Has anyone else noticed that the program information in the PSIP data is off by an hour? For instance a show that is supposed to be on at 8pm is listed as being on a 7pm?

Yes, I've noticed this too.
Guess they did not update the PSIP with the new daylight savings time change over date.

PSIP Guide information off by an hour

Has anyone else noticed that the program information in the PSIP data is off by an hour? For instance a show that is supposed to be on at 8pm is listed as being on a 7pm?

My TV doesn't show anything for the PSIP info data. I'll check again tonight, but it would make my day if Comcast broadcast that too.

When I was using my RCA DTC-100 HD receiver (a few years ago), it provided PSIP times and program guides for OTA digital channels. The time of day was specific to each individual station, so the time would vary a little or a lot when I changed from channel to channel.

Does anyone know if this has changed or not? I am using DirecTV with TiVo HD DVRs and they don't show anything that is PSIP-based except perhaps the logical channel number.

PSIP Guide information off by an hour

Has anyone else noticed that the program information in the PSIP data is off by an hour? For instance a show that is supposed to be on at 8pm is listed as being on a 7pm? Maybe it is part of this early day light savings time mess.

Nope, I've got no PSIP schedule information.

When I was using my RCA DTC-100 HD receiver (a few years ago), it provided PSIP times and program guides for OTA digital channels. The time of day was specific to each individual station, so the time would vary a little or a lot when I changed from channel to channel.

Does anyone know if this has changed or not? I am using DirecTV with TiVo HD DVRs and they don't show anything that is PSIP-based except perhaps the logical channel number.
No it hasn't changed. I noticed that KIRO's time is usually ahead about 10 to 30 minutes.

I notice last night that the guide lists the Sonics game to be on INHD, but during that time INHD is just blank, nada, nothing. The game was shown on FSN. Does this have to do with a blackout issue or is something else going on?

I just set up another QAM capable TV which replaced an analog set.

How does Comcast get aways with limiting the channel selection so severely? On the analog cable-ready set, I can get CNN, ESPN, TBS etc.

On the QAM (which could be considerd digital cable-ready) set, I am limited to the OTA channels, Hallmark, Discovery and a few shopping channels. However, I get both the SD digital simulcast & HD digital OTA channels.

Why aren't the all the basic cable analog channels delivered as clear QAM? Aren't they already there as digital simulcasts?

jasg edit - change 'SD digital' to 'basic analog'

Why aren't the all the SD digital channels delivered as clear QAM?Just because you subscribe to analog cable doesn't mean you get all the digital cable equivalents for free. The only digitial channels that Comcast delivers in the clear are the ones they are REQUIRED to - mostly local broadcast stations. Comcast charges money for the others.

If you want digital versions of non-local channels, you have to subscribe to one of their digital cable packages. You'll also need a receiver that can handle encrypted/subscription-only channels - either one of Comcast's set-top boxes, or your own TV or DVR with cablecard tuner.

I am a subscriber to Comcast Platinum - which is just about everything.

IThe question really is why doesn't Comcast make a clear QAM equivalent to the Basic Cable analog - which is what I meant to type?

I am a subscriber to Comcast Platinum - which is just about everything.

IThe question really is why doesn't Comcast make a clear QAM equivalent to the Basic Cable analog - which is what I meant to type?The answer is still the same: because Comcast believes they can make money by charging more for the digital versions of these channels.

ARGH. Frackin' comcast just broke my ability to get premium channels with my S3 Tivo. I tried to watch one of them today and got the "call your operator" black and grey screen. Having had a call from comcast weeks ago where they had me verify my info so this didn't happen, I was surprised. I called them and they couldn't get them to enable. nothing. So now I'm without premiums and they have to send a tech.

For the love of god. Anyone else have their premiums get nuked today?

The answer is still the same: because Comcast believes they can make money by charging more for the digital versions of these channels.
Let me try again, is there some technical reason why the digital simulcasts of the analog Basic Cable (ch1-99) are not in clear QAM instead of just the 'Limited Cable' lineup?

I understand that Comcast wants to make money, and that they want to make you get a box from them (in spite of the the FCC is saying), but it seems to me as more and more Basic Cable customers swap out their analog cable-ready sets for what they think are digital cable-ready sets, there will be lots of even more unhappy customers.

I have one set with DVR & one with a CableCard - but let's face, it CableCard sets are rare and not every location is suitable for a box.

ARGH. Frackin' comcast just broke my ability to get premium channels with my S3 Tivo. I tried to watch one of them today and got the "call your operator" black and grey screen. Having had a call from comcast weeks ago where they had me verify my info so this didn't happen, I was surprised. I called them and they couldn't get them to enable. nothing. So now I'm without premiums and they have to send a tech.

For the love of god. Anyone else have their premiums get nuked today?

Dangit, It seems with my cable card I've lost all channels above 99... I haven't used my cable card in a while so I didn't notice. I too did the "verify my info" thing...

How comcastic...

Let me try again, is there some technical reason why the digital simulcasts of the analog Basic Cable (ch1-99) are not in clear QAM instead of just the 'Limited Cable' lineup?

Are 1-99 part of Limited Cable, or do you need to subscribe to one of the higher-tier packages? For if you do need a higher tier package to get them all, then if they broadcast all of the digital channels in the clear via QAM, then all you need is Limited Cable to receive all the digital channels where folks without QAM-capable tuners would have to subscribe to the more expensive digital tier packages like now.

been trying to get a new (first) cablecard going on a panny 42px600u.. after the cablecard gets inserted, it hangs up at a screen saying "receving channel information" no buttons or anthing work.

talking to comcast, they said they need to pair the cablecard. however, i can't get the numbers to them since i can't access the menu.

anyone have any suggestions? do you think it's the cablecard or the tv?

Let me try again, is there some technical reason why the digital simulcasts of the analog Basic Cable (ch1-99) are not in clear QAM instead of just the 'Limited Cable' lineup?

I understand that Comcast wants to make money, and that they want to make you get a box from them (in spite of the the FCC is saying), but it seems to me as more and more Basic Cable customers swap out their analog cable-ready sets for what they think are digital cable-ready sets, there will be lots of even more unhappy customers.

I have one set with DVR & one with a CableCard - but let's face, it CableCard sets are rare and not every location is suitable for a box.No. There is no technical reason. They already digitally simulcast these channels anyway. Changing the encryption flag from 1 to 0 takes about 2 seconds.

Correct me if I'm wrong - but apart from local stations, the FCC has no authority over what channels Comcast gives you, what they charge for them, and what subscription or equipment is required to get them.

Let me try again, is there some technical reason why the digital simulcasts of the analog Basic Cable (ch1-99) are not in clear QAM instead of just the 'Limited Cable' lineup?

I understand that Comcast wants to make money, and that they want to make you get a box from them (in spite of the the FCC is saying), but it seems to me as more and more Basic Cable customers swap out their analog cable-ready sets for what they think are digital cable-ready sets, there will be lots of even more unhappy customers.

I have one set with DVR & one with a CableCard - but let's face, it CableCard sets are rare and not every location is suitable for a box.

Comcast has a $12.95 plan, so anything you can't get on that plan will be encrypted, if in QAM. For analog, they use filters on the subscribers who have that plan, but that won't work with QAM. They need to encrypt.

The $12.95 plan mainly includes local channels, local access and a few shopping channels. Anything else in QAM will be encrypted, and thus you'll either need a box, or a Cablecard.

What's the deal with Ch 11 in QAM? Everything is stretched. Does Ch 11 have any real HD?

Are 1-99 part of Limited Cable, or do you need to subscribe to one of the higher-tier packages? For if you do need a higher tier package to get them all, then if they broadcast all of the digital channels in the clear via QAM, then all you need is Limited Cable to receive all the digital channels where folks without QAM-capable tuners would have to subscribe to the more expensive digital tier packages like now.
1-99 are called 'Basic Cable' - which is the $40 or so package.

I subscribe to the 'Platinum' package which is $120+ - it is Basic + Digital + all Premium channels.

My point is if I plug an analog TV into cable with no box, I get access to all but the Digital & Premium channels - in other words, Basic cable 1-99.

If I do the same with a Digital QAM set instead, I get only Limited Cable.

Why aren't folks complaining about this? IIRC, even the cheapest analog set can tune cable channels 1-125. A nice shiny new QAM cable set will get a dozen or so channels because the rest of the channels that are unencrypted on analog are encrypted in QAM format.

Regarding my FCC reference, they are mandating that you don't need to get a cable box from Comcast. It is a bit more involved than that, but requiring a box for QAM sets seems counter to that ruling.

Cablecards are supposed to be the solution, but try and find a kitchen sized set with one - and I don't even want to talk about what the cable industry are doing to HTPC based cable access...

Comcast has a $12.95 plan, so anything you can't get on that plan will be encrypted, if in QAM. For analog, they use filters on the subscribers who have that plan, but that won't work with QAM. They need to encrypt.

It would seem to me that frequency filters could work with QAM if the content was assigned correctly so that limited could sit in a block of unfiltered freqs - remove the filter for Basic cable & encrypt the Digital and premium tiers.

Back in the day, I used to be able to have filters that allowed basic but not HBO. What has changed?

Also, what will happend to basic cable customers when they go all digital and drop the analog channels? (long way off, I know - but folks will still have non-CableCard QAM sets).

It appears my cable card isn't working at all anymore, and I also noticed my cable boxes now have 5c CCI=2 on more stations that didn't used to have them. Sounds like comcast is making a few changes... But my cable card should not stop working... I'm going to call customer service when i have the patience.

What's the deal with Ch 11 in QAM? Everything is stretched. Does Ch 11 have any real HD?

If it's stretched out, it's probably the normal analog channel 11 or the digital version of the same thing.

But, digital channel 11-1 (remapped from digital channel 81-2) does contain HD content. Specifically

Sun 7:00pm One Tree Hill
Mon 8:00pm Everybody Hates Chris
Mon 8:30pm All of Us
Mon 9:00pm Girlfriends
Mon 9:30pm The Game
Tue 8:00pm Gilmore Girls
Tue 9:00pm Veronica Mars (currently on haitus)
Thu 8:00pm Smallville
Thu 9:00pm Supernatural

been trying to get a new (first) cablecard going on a panny 42px600u.. after the cablecard gets inserted, it hangs up at a screen saying "receving channel information" no buttons or anthing work.

talking to comcast, they said they need to pair the cablecard. however, i can't get the numbers to them since i can't access the menu.

anyone have any suggestions? do you think it's the cablecard or the tv?

in case anyone else has the same problem... comcast came out today.. it was the cablecard.. the third one they tried worked..

It would seem to me that frequency filters could work with QAM if the content was assigned correctly so that limited could sit in a block of unfiltered freqs - remove the filter for Basic cable & encrypt the Digital and premium tiers.

Back in the day, I used to be able to have filters that allowed basic but not HBO. What has changed?

Also, what will happend to basic cable customers when they go all digital and drop the analog channels? (long way off, I know - but folks will still have QAM only sets).Cable companies really, really want to get rid of analog filters. It's very expensive to require a neighborhood truck visit every time someone changes their subscription package. As a consumer - if I decide to upgrade or change my cable subscription, I want it NOW. I don't want to wait 2 weeks while they schedule a truck. And obviously Comcast has incentive to make it as immediate & simple as possible to upgrade your subscription or buy other services from them. I think analog "subscription management" via line filters is pretty mnuch dead.

I don't think I've ever heard of a QAM-only TV set - much less a digital-only set. The recent cutoff date simply outlawed sales of new analog-only sets. TVs are now required to have ATSC digital tuners, but don't most still have analog tuners as well?

Yeah, a truck is expensive - I understand.

I still hate the fact that in the digital set world, basic cable now requires renting a box. I just don't want one in the kitchen.

When I said QAM only, I really meant 'non-CableCard QAM tuner' - and yes, I think most or all sets still have analog tuners.

It would seem to me that frequency filters could work with QAM if the content was assigned correctly so that limited could sit in a block of unfiltered freqs - remove the filter for Basic cable & encrypt the Digital and premium tiers.

Back in the day, I used to be able to have filters that allowed basic but not HBO. What has changed?

Also, what will happend to basic cable customers when they go all digital and drop the analog channels? (long way off, I know - but folks will still have non-CableCard QAM sets).

The limited basic filters only filter out the higher analog channels (by higher I mean about 30). They could probably filter the QAM channels too, but that would affect HD locals (which are included in the $12.95 plan), and possibly also the Internet.

The thing about QAM is they can easily encrypt stuff and control who gets what. They don't want to give that up.

If it's stretched out, it's probably the normal analog channel 11 or the digital version of the same thing.

But, digital channel 11-1 (remapped from digital channel 81-2) does contain HD content. Specifically

Sun 7:00pm One Tree Hill
Mon 8:00pm Everybody Hates Chris
Mon 8:30pm All of Us
Mon 9:00pm Girlfriends
Mon 9:30pm The Game
Tue 8:00pm Gilmore Girls
Tue 9:00pm Veronica Mars (currently on haitus)
Thu 8:00pm Smallville
Thu 9:00pm Supernatural

I"ll have to check to see if I mapped the wrong version of Channel 11, but I can't believe they have it on two QAM channels.

I'm not getting Everyone Hates Chris in HD.

Edit: That was it. I had 11 mapped as 79-something. Changing it fixed it. I must have mis-read the chart when I mapped it, and somehow gotten an alternative QAM channel for 11.

ARGH. Frackin' comcast just broke my ability to get premium channels with my S3 Tivo. I tried to watch one of them today and got the "call your operator" black and grey screen. Having had a call from comcast weeks ago where they had me verify my info so this didn't happen, I was surprised. I called them and they couldn't get them to enable. nothing. So now I'm without premiums and they have to send a tech.

For the love of god. Anyone else have their premiums get nuked today?

Yep. I have a cablecard and and can't get my HBO now. Comcast CSR says there's a bulletin out that I have to get a new CC and get the pairing info off it. I exchanged my old old one at the Comcast office, called in the pairing data and now I got zip. Going to try another card today.

PSIP program info update

I was doing a little more digging today. Here's some things I discovered

OTA

#1. The PSIP program information is set to the correct time.
#2. KING-DT (5-1) and KING-SD (5-2) don't have any PSIP program information
#3. analog channel 9 KCTS has the correct time signal
#4. digital channel 9-3 KCTS Create has an incorrector time signal (it's one hour early, probably a DST issue).

On Comcast

#1. The PSIP program information is set one hour early than it should be.
#2. KING-DT (5-1) and KING-SD (5-2) don't have any PSIP program information
#3. PSIP station ID vary from their OTA PSIP station ID. For instance, OTA 11-1 = "KSTW-DT". On Comcast 11-1 = "CW11 HD"

If someone from Comcast reads this forum, could they try to correct the PSIP program time issue?

The thing about QAM is they can easily encrypt stuff and control who gets what. They don't want to give that up.Another way to say that is "... they can easily encrypt stuff and force you to rent a cable box from them." (when you didn't have to do that for analog TV sets).

I think what they want is to force more customers into the PPV world and drive revenue.

As I see it, for anyone who subscribes to Limited cable requires a truck roll and a filter - right? I don't see why this should change as we shift from NTSC cable to ATSC QAM. Granted, they have to carefully map the limited cable QAM assignments, but how hard can that be - certainly not much worse than the analog mapping?

I hope this will be a self-correcting problem - as more and more people get QAM sets and want basic cable, they will be SOL unless they rent a box or have a CableCard set (seen one of those lately?). As it sits now, in the digital world Comcast has 2 tiers of non-premium service - Limited & Digital. Basic Cable (Limited+Expanded) - no box/no card) is an absent option. Makes SatTV look attractive. I'm gonna start complaining, perhaps others will as well.

As it sits now, in the digital world Comcast has 2 tiers of non-premium service - Limited & Digital. Basic Cable (Limited+Expanded) - no box/no card) is an absent option.

Maybe I'm misreading your point, but I'm currently getting Limited Basic with no box and no card. I'm just using the ATSC QAM tuner built into my TV to pull in all of the digital channels that are part of limited basic. This includes almost of the local digital channels (HD & SD). And thanks to all of the work that's Comcast has recently done to add the PSIP information, they map to the right channels.

If I had Basic cable without a box or cable card, the only difference would be that I would also get analog channels 30 through 69. And yes, I miss Battlestar Galactica. (sniff)

Maybe I'm misreading your point, but I'm currently getting Limited Basic with no box and no card. That is my point exactly. On my 17 year old analog Sony cable ready set, I get Channels 2-99 (what the Comast rate card calls 'Basic Cable' - defined as 'Limited' + 'Expanded'

On a QAM tuner - I only get 'Limited'

(The rate card defines 'Limited' as ch 2-29, 74-99 and 'Digital Broadcast' - OTA HDTV)

To answer the next question - Yes, if I switch to an analog tuner, I can get the 'Expanded' channels - but of much lower analog quality (not the digitual simulcasts).

Why should I have to switch tuner modes in my TV? I've paid for the Expanded channels, I have a set that can tune them - but Comcast encrypts them....

(I think I need to move this topic to an HDTV Hardware thread - thanks for the feedback and sorry to hijack Comcast Seattle discussions - but I hope they read this!)

...
(The rate card defines 'Limited' as ch 1-29, 74-99 and 'Digital Broadcast' - OTA HDTV)
...

Actually, it doesn't include 1, since that's OnDemand.

Anyone else getting popping sounds, kinda like firecrackers going off? Usually, hitting skip back fixes it, but it happens pretty often, and it's happened on several different DVR boxes. Is this a reception issue?

Anyone else getting popping sounds, kinda like firecrackers going off? Usually, hitting skip back fixes it, but it happens pretty often, and it's happened on several different DVR boxes. Is this a reception issue?

Only once, towards the end of last week's HD broadcast of "Ugly Betty" on KOMO.

I've gotten this on KOMO a couple times, but not on any other stations...

...As it sits now, in the digital world Comcast has 2 tiers of non-premium service - Limited & Digital. Basic Cable (Limited+Expanded) - no box/no card) is an absent option. Makes SatTV look attractive. ....Yeah, let's all switch to SatTV's no box/no card option! ..... oh wait, never mind....

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I just don't think you're ever going to get what you want with current-generation QAM sets. Only when we get TVs with built-in DCAS will this start to become transparent to consumers again.

Where did MYQHD and the tube go I noticed they went to 22-1 and 22-2 last week but now can't find them at all any luck where they went???

Also of note what is with 74-2 It was inhd for awhile with some great hockey etc.. during the evening now it just being wasted by a duplicate channel?

At least your getting some channels... my JVC is still blank on the digital channels. I run it through the auto tuner setup just about every day hoping for my HD channels back, but so far no change.

If you haven't seen my earlier posts on this topic -- this is a JVC LCD with built in QAM tuner that I use in the bedroom without a comcast STB, it used to pull in all the networks plus other unencrypted digital channels via the built-in digital Tuner, but these went away about three weeks ago and have not returned.

still frustrated in Sammamaish

Yeah, let's all switch to SatTV's no box/no card option! ..... oh wait, never mind....

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I just don't think you're ever going to get what you want with current-generation QAM sets. Only when we get TVs with built-in DCAS will this start to become transparent to consumers again.
Disregarding the fact that Sat / Cable folks line up like Mac / PC fans, my point was that if I have to convince my wife to have a STB in the kitchen, it does not matter to her who supplies the box. Actually, she would probably sign up for NFL Sunday Ticket in a flash...

I too have a JVC tv with QAM HD tuner at two residences in the Olympia area. I am just getting the blank screen when I switch to the digital mode of my tv.

Very frusturating...

cedawg

Has it ever worked?

What's the deal with these QAM tuners? My HD Homerun box hasn't had an issue tuning any of the channels, and the only ones that changed were back when King and Kong changed QAM assignments. Do the QAM tuners in TV work off the PSIP (or whatever it's called) numbers rather than the QAM numbers?

That said, since they've been messing with it, my KIRO and KCPQ recordings have become unreliable--so I've switch to recording those stations OTA. It's a periodic, not a constant problem, but it's frequent enough to avoid.

I too have a JVC tv with QAM HD tuner at two residences in the Olympia area. I am just getting the blank screen when I switch to the digital mode of my tv.

Very frusturating...

cedawg

I'm in the same boat... except I have two JVC LCD TV's one is a 32" and the other 37". The 37" is still able to receive the digital channels on the QAM tuner, the 32 can not.

I called Video only and they said the 32" needed some sort of flash update and that I could call TeleTron at 206 633 0789 and they would do the flash update under the warranty.

I'm going to call them tomorrow and find out.

So, I'm just really curious if anyone else has seen this...

I record a good amount of tv, and I can generally fast forward pretty well, apart from the occasional whig-out (like a 30 second jump ahead when I hit play), but, when I'm watching a show recorded from BBC America, when I fast forward, the system *really* doesn't click in. Basically, the stream bar at the bottom doesn't update, the FWD1 doesn't show up... and, eventually, I'm able to hit play again and, eventually, it'll be processed by the box.

It isn't an HD vs Standard issue, since Comedy Central works quite right. This make any sense?

I also have had trouble with the transport controls of BBC America recordings, as well as the few things I've recorded from KBTC (channel 12, a nice "Great Cars" series). Could be the encoding/compression.

BBC has always cause two different issues for me. Sometimes when I press play I skip ahead 30 seconds or more instead of jumping behind. That I can live with. The other is the audio stutters, but a rewind or instant replay corrects. This one I hate, the audio stutter gives an instant headache.

ARGH. Frackin' comcast just broke my ability to get premium channels with my S3 Tivo. I tried to watch one of them today and got the "call your operator" black and grey screen. Having had a call from comcast weeks ago where they had me verify my info so this didn't happen, I was surprised. I called them and they couldn't get them to enable. nothing. So now I'm without premiums and they have to send a tech.

For the love of god. Anyone else have their premiums get nuked today?



Yes, this happened to me a few days ago (I get the "call operator" screen on HBO and Showtime, though HD locals, ESPN, and Discovery HD and TNT HD still work). It also happened to a friend with a Series 3. He spent hours on the phone today with Comcast and they couldn't figure it out and are sending out a tech. I'm about to call them tomorrow as well.

Given the exact same symptoms for several people using a TiVo Series 3, it does seem like they've done something on their end. Is there anyone reading this using a Series 3 who is still getting HBO/Showtime without a problem?

PSIP program info update
OTA
#4. digital channel 9-3 KCTS Create has an incorrector time signal (it's one hour early, probably a DST issue).


You sure about that? It looks good to me:

Received Table: System Time Table (0xcd)
system_time = 859105907
GPS_UTC_offset = 14
daylight_savings = 0xe000
DS_status = On
DS_day_of_month = 0
DS_hour = 0
As local time: Wed Mar 28 01:31:33 2007 PDT
System clock : Wed Mar 28 01:31:35 2007 PDT

I just set my computer clock, so it should be accurate. Or are you talking about the time code in the analog XDS signal?

So, I'm just really curious if anyone else has seen this...

I record a good amount of tv, and I can generally fast forward pretty well, apart from the occasional whig-out (like a 30 second jump ahead when I hit play), but, when I'm watching a show recorded from BBC America, when I fast forward, the system *really* doesn't click in. Basically, the stream bar at the bottom doesn't update, the FWD1 doesn't show up... and, eventually, I'm able to hit play again and, eventually, it'll be processed by the box.

It isn't an HD vs Standard issue, since Comedy Central works quite right. This make any sense?
I have the same problem with BBC America, USA and FX. When I FF, the box has long delays in stopping after I hit PLAY. BBC America is the worst, I think.

Yes, this happened to me a few days ago (I get the "call operator" screen on HBO and Showtime, though HD locals, ESPN, and Discovery HD and TNT HD still work). It also happened to a friend with a Series 3. He spent hours on the phone today with Comcast and they couldn't figure it out and are sending out a tech. I'm about to call them tomorrow as well.

Given the exact same symptoms for several people using a TiVo Series 3, it does seem like they've done something on their end. Is there anyone reading this using a Series 3 who is still getting HBO/Showtime without a problem?

It's the cableCard(s). Comcast now requires you to give them the pairing info (host & data #) to get the premium channels. You might have to get new Cablecards. I just went through all this.

You sure about that? It looks good to me:

Received Table: System Time Table (0xcd)
system_time = 859105907
GPS_UTC_offset = 14
daylight_savings = 0xe000
DS_status = On
DS_day_of_month = 0
DS_hour = 0
As local time: Wed Mar 28 01:31:33 2007 PDT
System clock : Wed Mar 28 01:31:35 2007 PDT

I just set my computer clock, so it should be accurate. Or are you talking about the time code in the analog XDS signal?
I'm not sure about that. I don't have any utilities to confirm.

Here's what I'm seeing.

#1. Setup TV to auto sync the time.
#2. tune to OTA analog channel 9. wait 10 seconds. Time is set correctly.
#3. tune to OTA digital channel 9-1. wait 10 seconds. Time is set one hour earlier than it should be.

It's not a 100% repro case. Some times, I can wait in step 3 for a minute and it doesn't change the time.

I'm in the same boat... except I have two JVC LCD TV's one is a 32" and the other 37". The 37" is still able to receive the digital channels on the QAM tuner, the 32 can not.

I called Video only and they said the 32" needed some sort of flash update and that I could call TeleTron at 206 633 0789 and they would do the flash update under the warranty.

I'm going to call them tomorrow and find out.

It worked until about 2 to 3 weeks ago on both my 32" tv and my parents 37" tv. I will call TeleTron.

cedawg2007

It worked until about 2 to 3 weeks ago on both my 32" tv and my parents 37" tv. I will call TeleTron.

cedawg2007

I just called and the tech said it is a known issue with the JVC TV's. He said comcast pinged the TV and that it broke the ASTC tuner. They are ordering me a new one, it should be a week or so for them to come it.

Not sure how pinging a TV would break it but whatever I guess.

I also have had trouble with the transport controls of BBC America recordings, as well as the few things I've recorded from KBTC (channel 12, a nice "Great Cars" series). Could be the encoding/compression.

Thank the ghods it's not just me or my cablebox.

And dangit, it's not the cablebox so not easily fixed.

Any oddsmakers want to give me odds that Comcast would even validate this as a problem? =D

It's been reported that all of the Mariner's home games and a few away games will be broadcast on FoxNWHD on 664? However, nothing shows up on the Channel Guide for opening week. Any updates?

I just called and the tech said it is a known issue with the JVC TV's. He said comcast pinged the TV and that it broke the ASTC tuner. They are ordering me a new one, it should be a week or so for them to come it.

Not sure how pinging a TV would break it but whatever I guess.


Ping a TV? Is a TV now a computer network device? :rolleyes:

I too have a JVC tv with QAM HD tuner at two residences in the Olympia area. I am just getting the blank screen when I switch to the digital mode of my tv.

Very frusturating...

cedawg

These two channels are still blank here in Renton on my cable box. They worked for one day and then were blank again the next day. All other channels work fine.

Ping a TV? Is a TV now a computer network device? :rolleyes:

Well, my HD Homerun is a computer network device--but not on the end that connects to the coax. :D

I just called and the tech said it is a known issue with the JVC TV's. He said comcast pinged the TV and that it broke the ASTC tuner. They are ordering me a new one, it should be a week or so for them to come it.

Not sure how pinging a TV would break it but whatever I guess.
The CableCARD decryption module within an HDTV must be "pinged" to (re-)enable it.
This is done via the FDC (Forward Data Channel), which mimics a one-way Internet connection.
During setup, CableCARD enabled HDTV's tune to the FDC freq to receive the "ping".

If you have a defective CableCARD (or don't use one), then the "ping" won't be accepted during setup.

BTW: Cable STB's also have a RDC (Reverse Data Channel), which provides
the reverse (two-way) Internet connection....which is missing on current CableCARD HDTVs.
So THEY can't see whether the "ping" was successful or not...

Hope this isn't a dumb question, but we are talking about the same thing right? We have these JVCs with built-in QAM tuners that aren't working anymore and holl_ands is talking about Cable CARD enabled HDTVs?

Anyway, dtreat - please let us know if the new Tuner fixes the problem.

When I was watching the M's game verses the Giants the guy said that every M's home game would be broadcasted in HD then showed the channels... Said "Comcast 664" Wonder how true that really is.

just noticed today NBC Nightly News is now in HD on 105.

just noticed today NBC Nightly News is now in HD on 105.

Yep, it has been all week.

In Wallingford, Seattle, I'm having trouble tuning in UHD and MTVHD. This is the same problem I've been having off and on since these two stations appeared.

The game, tomorrow at 3:30 has not shown up on the channel guide for 664. Do you think we need to set up a manual recording for the game and just hope the game is on? The Comcast ads make it sound like the game should be broadcast on 664 but nothing is showing on the channel guide.

Any additional news?

What is the QAM number for 664, and is it encrypted?

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it isn't, because about 3 years ago they did have some Mariner games in HD, and even the Limited Basic ($12.95) customers were able to watch it. What I don't understand is how they can do this with FSNW having the Mariner contract.

The recent HD Mariner games (last year) that I have watched on DirecTV in HD were FSNW productions, essentially an HD simulcast of their SD cable/satellite channel, including commercials.

The plan, barring any unforseen technical problems, will be for the game to air on 664. The pre and post game shows will be in SD, and the game will be in HD.

What is the QAM number for 664, and is it encrypted?

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it isn't, because about 3 years ago they did have some Mariner games in HD, and even the Limited Basic ($12.95) customers were able to watch it. What I don't understand is how they can do this with FSNW having the Mariner contract.
I think 664 is listed an an In Demand channel so yes it would be encrypted.

The game, tomorrow at 3:30 has not shown up on the channel guide for 664. Do you think we need to set up a manual recording for the game and just hope the game is on? The Comcast ads make it sound like the game should be broadcast on 664 but nothing is showing on the channel guide.

Any additional news?

Art,

If it's any consolation, this is what I am doing.

Anyone else?

The Mariners game on 664 finally showed up on the TV PLanner (http://tvplanner.comcast.net/) (which I think is one of the greatest tools out there for listings) so I suspect the guides will update tonight. In the meantime I am entering a manual recording.

Here is the schedule the best I know of ...

Oakland A's at Seattle Mariners

Monday 3:30 PM
FSN 030
INHDCOM 664

Tuesday 7:00 PM (local channel will air)
KSTW 011
KSTWDT 111

Wednesday 7:00 PM
FSN 030
INHDCOM 664

2007 Schedule with broadcast info here (http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/sea/downloads/sea_schedule_07.pdf) (pdf)

Tuesday 7:00 PM (local channel will air)
KSTW 011
KSTWDT 111



Just so everyone isn't too suprised, the KSTW games will still be SD this year.

Just so everyone isn't too suprised, the KSTW games will still be SD this year.
Do you have any schedule of HD Mariners games to be broadcast on DirecTV?

I have no picture on 664.
Can anyone else confirm?

Same here! It's on FSN CH30 though....sucks big time!

I'll call csmr service to see if I can find anything out.

The pre-game started on 664 in HD and then it froze during the first pitch tribute thingy and 664 has been blacked out ever since. Crud!! I wanted to watch the game in HD.

so I suggest calling so they know this is a crisis!
anyway the lady I spoke to seemed not to know about the problem.
she put me on hold for a minute to check something.
when she came back she said they were aware of this problem in "my area" and were working on a fix... no idea how long.

Yeah, they are aware in my area as well.

Confirm working w/o a hitch in Tukwila.

--
Sang

Black screen in Everett area. The guide is now correct, and a repeat is listed on channel 30 at 7pm until 10pm, and on 664 from 7pm to 7:30pm. What the ... ?

blank screen in Maple Valley

Black screen here in anacortes. Comcast said they're aware of it and it seems to be affecting localized areas. Into the 3rd inning and still a black screen though. I'd had this happen multiple times with 664.........

ditto in Auburn.

Blah.

Is the problem fixed yet?

no.

Nothing here either... :mad:

David

The Mariners are in HD on Ch 664 in Sammamish. I got home shortly after 5:00 pm and the broadcast has been fine the whole time I have been home.

5:30pm... Now it's up and running! Nice, bottom of the 8th inning! :mad:

David

Hope this isn't a dumb question, but we are talking about the same thing right? We have these JVCs with built-in QAM tuners that aren't working anymore and holl_ands is talking about Cable CARD enabled HDTVs?

Anyway, dtreat - please let us know if the new Tuner fixes the problem.

Will Do. I should hear from TeleTron this week, if not I will follow up with them.

Inhd still DOA here in Anacortes :(

My manual recording on ch 664 for the game did not get saved in the recording list. Could this be because it was a blank picture? I tuned to 664 a minute ago for the replay and it was a black screen.

All right, so 'all home games will be in HD' except for the home games on KSTW? So, that means that in actuality not all home games will be in HD, correct?

I'm watching KSTW-DT 111 right now and it's in SD only. Booooo!!

InHD is showing its regular programming. Booooooo!!!

All right, so 'all home games will be in HD' except for the home games on KSTW? So, that means that in actuality not all home games will be in HD, correct?

I'm watching KSTW-DT 111 right now and it's in SD only. Booooo!!

InHD is showing its regular programming. Booooooo!!!


Same here. I thought for sure I read someplace that CW11 would carry HD games this year.

I think the Mariners HD agreement is only with FSN.

Well, HD or not, what a good start for the M's!

--
Sang

All right, so 'all home games will be in HD' except for the home games on KSTW? So, that means that in actuality not all home games will be in HD, correct?

I'm watching KSTW-DT 111 right now and it's in SD only. Booooo!!

InHD is showing its regular programming. Booooooo!!!

Well, all the way back at post #8872 (the previous page) I did say that KSTW games would be SD only. That hasn't changed. Let's hope Comcast get's their act together Wednesday and makes game 3 work for everyone.

All home games on FSN will be available in HD barring unforseen technical problems.

Here's the response I got from KSTW regarding Mariners in HD this year:

I wish we could say that our Mariners telecasts will be in HD this season, but as of this correspondence, most likely not.

Sincerely,
k a t h y w a l k e r

Program Coordinator | KSTW-TV
206-861-8891 | kwalker@kstwtv.com
Home of the new CW 11
and the Seattle Mariners!

Will Do. I should hear from TeleTron this week, if not I will follow up with them.

I just called to get the status on the tuner... they said they are back ordered and it will probably be a week and a half, so I better plan on 2 plus weeks.

Just got a message forwarded to me that KIRO is adding additional coverage of The Masters in HD on Thursday and Friday. This was just added and it may not show up on the guide. 1PM to 4PM, channel 7 will show regular programming, channel 107 will have the HD Masters coverage. Saturday & Sunday the coverage will be on 7 and 107 simultaneously.

I am happy to report that, in Wallingford, tonight's Ms game is in beautiful HD.

Thank you, Comcast; thank you, thank you.

For those who also like the out of market Extra Innings package, apparently MLB and InDemand have signed an agreement today so it will be available on cable this season. No particulars on the deal, but MLB's new station set to start in 2009 will also be available and must be carried by any cable provider who takes Extra Innings.

what the heck is up with ESPNNews right now? It looks like an old VCR tape on both of my boxes...

anybody else with that?

The Mariner's away games this year that will be in HD on 664 are ...

5/28 LA Angels
5/29 LA Angels
5/30 LA Angels
8/24 Texas Rangers
9/20 LA Angels
9/21 LA Angels

In total 59 home games produced by FSN and 6 away games.

For the past 3 weeks I have been having a problem with the audio on Comcast ABC HD in the Seattle area. This is channel 104. During prime time television only 8-10pm Pacific Time I am getting a crackling/popping sound from the audio dialogue. This only affects ABC HD. All other channels are fine. I do have a receiver hooked up to the cable box but have turned that off and the crackling/popping sound persists with the tv's internal speakers. I have replicated the problem with both digital and analog sound. I had a tech come by the house and he said he could not hear the sound. Ummmm thanks. He switched out the Motorola HDMI DVR for another and the sound persisted. Any ideas on what is going on here? The tech's final response was for me to call ABC.....ummmmmmm where do they find these people? Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards,

-emoney

I noticed that the Boston Game is on Channel 470. I think it is free this week. No Mariners on TV anywhere today.

The tech's final response was for me to call ABC.....ummmmmmm where do they find these people? Thanks in advance for any help.
Former CompUSA employees? Just kidding, although he may be right kind of. Since its isolated to one channel during a specific time period, it does indeed sound like its coming from only the one channel. I'd be curious if the sound happens with the analog cable channel for ABC or if you have an old VCR you can use as a tuner, if it happens then.

Yeah the more I think about it the more he may be right.......at the time I laughed at him. It only happens on HD ABC (104). The problem does not exist with regular digital cable channel 4.

So what's the next step if it is ABC? Contact the local affiliate- KOMO?

Yeah the more I think about it the more he may be right.......at the time I laughed at him. It only happens on HD ABC (104). The problem does not exist with regular digital cable channel 4.

So what's the next step if it is ABC? Contact the local affiliate- KOMO?



There used to be a KOMO contact who posted here:
Don Wilkinson
Fisher Communications, Inc.
KOMO-TV, KOMO-DT

He seemed to be pretty good at getting to the source of their problems, but I haven't seen a posting from him since April 2006.

Sweet. I googled him and found an email addy. I sent him my blurb. We'll see what happens. :-)

I was meaning to add that I've noticed the problem too on that channel. I'll be surprised if Don isn't aware of it.

Good news. Just got this from Don. At least they are aware of the issue.

Yes, we have received several complaints about the ABC network audio on KOMO-DT. Our technicians are working with Comcast to try to isolate the cause.

The interesting part about this is that the exact same digital signal is fed to the KOMO-DT channel 4.1 (UHF channel 38) as is sent to Comcast via fiber cable.

I have an excellent off-air signal at home and I have not heard a problem with the network audio. I also have a set that directly receives the Comcast QAM channel 82.4 (remapped to 4-1) signal and I have not noticed a popping sound there, either. The most obvious thing is that something is slightly different about the network feed that ends up as a problem in the set top box or the decoder card. I will pay close attention tonight to see if I hear anything.

You said that you hear the popping on the network programs...is that to say that our local news audio is perfect?

Our guys are working on it. They should have a solution soon.

Thanks for your feedback.

Best regards,

Don Wilkinson

Good news. Just got this from Don. At least they are aware of the issue.

That guy is awesome.
If only the other players in the local HDTV world were as helpful and as available...

Here's a link to a similar complaint (popping audio on ABC HD) from the San Francisco Comcast forum last week:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10146445#post10146445

Anyone following the Chicago Comcast Digital switchover next week? Any idea when this will happen to Seattle? Also, will TV's with QAM tuners still be able to get channels without renting a box?

Anyone following the Chicago Comcast Digital switchover next week? Any idea when this will happen to Seattle? Also, will TV's with QAM tuners still be able to get channels without renting a box?
Eliminating the Expanded Analog channels means dozens of new QAM-256 digital carriers.
With 2-3 HD or up to 13 SD per QAM-256, that means lots and lots of new found capacity.
Which eliminates the pressure to jump too deep into SDV (Switched Digital Video).

Which means CableCARD QAM equipped STB/HDTVs and TiVo S3's should get a reprieve.

However, it's up to the local cable company to decide whether they WANT
to discriminate against these customers and force them to use a digital converter
for perhaps Premium or other extra cost Digital Tiers....

And of course, PPV and VOD will continue to require digital converters.....

=============================
The real question is whether they will run the EXPANDED Channel Tier UNENCRYPTED???
If they didn't encrypt the extra cost EXPANDED channels, then lots of people
would get them for FREE...which is why DIGITAL SIMULCAST channels
are now encrypted, except for Local HDs.
Now if they would only follow the LAW and unencrypt the Local SD channels.....

speaking of ENCRYPTION .... can someone please explain the following:

as i scan my QAM channels (not sure how we calls those), i can see different type of channels including ON Demand .... no news there, not very interesting (unless you don't mind watching from the middle). however sometimes, it appears as there is adult program on demand, not different then above with one notable exception (keeping it technical :) )

it appears as if those channels are encrypted, you cant make anything out of them. Can it be so? can it be they are encrypted? if they are encrypted i am wondering why only those channels and not all of them? does it cost more to encrypt?

The real question is whether they will run the EXPANDED Channel Tier UNENCRYPTED???
If they didn't encrypt the extra cost EXPANDED channels, then lots of people
would get them for FREE...which is why DIGITAL SIMULCAST channels
are now encrypted, except for Local HDs.
As I have commented, this is my pet peeve with the Comcast digital transition. A net decrease in service for those who are purchasing new QAM sets to replace Analog CableReady. STBs are not always an option, cost money to rent & cablecards/OCAP are too far in the future.

I guess that paying 'Basic' cable (or better) customers are being discriminated against to keep folks with 'Limited' cable (or just Cable Internet???) from stealing the signal. Seems an odd business practice to me.

At least Comcast has opened itself up to some competition, if STBs are required, I can consider Verizon FIOS (coming soon) or satellite along with cable.

I've always had trouble tuning in 660 but never really cared until now. The Masters is on. When I tune to 660 or 661 I usually get a black screen and usually the station eventually tunes in. Sometimes it takes 5 to 10 seconds, sometimes it never comes on. The picture is usually very unstable with lots of digitizing. I used to tape Monk but it rarely came out well.

I called Comcast today. They said that they had never heard of the problem until today. They reset my box (yeah, right) and of course there is no improvement.

What's your experience with 660 and 661? Call Comcast and complain if you are having a similar problem.

I've always had trouble tuning in 660 but never really cared until now. The Masters is on. When I tune to 660 or 661 I usually get a black screen and usually the station eventually tunes in. Sometimes it takes 5 to 10 seconds, sometimes it never comes on. The picture is usually very unstable with lots of digitizing. I used to tape Monk but it rarely came out well.

I called Comcast today. They said that they had never heard of the problem until today. They reset my box (yeah, right) and of course there is no improvement.

What's your experience with 660 and 661? Call Comcast and complain if you are having a similar problem.660 works fine for me, but this morning (Sat.)it's just a repeat of yesterday afternoons coverage. You're not missing anything

Just did a rescan on my samsung 260 and have picked up a bunch of new sports channels here's what i found....

113-1 Sports INDemand NHL
113-2 Sports INDemand NHL
113-3 Sports INDemand NHL
113-4 Sports INDemand NHL
113-5 Sports INDemand game on now Hockey
113-6 Sports INDemand MLB extra innings
113-7 Sports INDemand game on now hockey different then other one
113-8 Sports INDemand NHL
113-9 Sports INDemand NHL
113-10 Sports INDemand NHL
116-9 Sports INDemand MLS
116-10 Sports INDemand MLS
117-1 ESPN Full court
117-2 ESPN Full court
117-3 ESPN Full court
117-4 ESPN Full court
117-5 ESPN Full court
117-6 ESPN Full court

Hope they last!!

I've always had trouble tuning in 660 but never really cared until now. The Masters is on. When I tune to 660 or 661 I usually get a black screen ... I called Comcast today. They said that they had never heard of the problem until today. They reset my box (yeah, right) and of course there is no improvement. The whole western half of the United States could be down with Comcast and no matter when you call, they will give you the same line about it "being the first time they heard about it." It is right up there with them trying to blame every single problem on something you, the customer, did! I hate their tech department. It is like they all have the same playbook of denial first and then blame the customer second.

Yeah, I've had trouble with these two HD stations since the first appeared. Same exact problem as you. I just feel like it is spitting into the wind against the Comcast spin machine, more concerned with protecting their monopoly, and the bottom line, than giving good service.

Anyone following the Chicago Comcast Digital switchover next week? Any idea when this will happen to Seattle? Also, will TV's with QAM tuners still be able to get channels without renting a box?

The latest Comcast message on the box offers up to two additional digital set-top boxes free for 12 months. I stopped by the Redmond office today and picked one up (DCT700). All premiums except HD are included, but I had to make a call to get the box made aware of the channels on my account. Perhaps this is a prelude to the general push to digital, a la Chicago. (Now to set a reminder to return it next April!)

My ABC HD channel (4.1) has been having audio and visual problems...popping audio and wierd pixels popping up all over the place--probably a few times a minute.



For the past 3 weeks I have been having a problem with the audio on Comcast ABC HD in the Seattle area. This is channel 104. During prime time television only 8-10pm Pacific Time I am getting a crackling/popping sound from the audio dialogue. This only affects ABC HD. All other channels are fine. I do have a receiver hooked up to the cable box but have turned that off and the crackling/popping sound persists with the tv's internal speakers. I have replicated the problem with both digital and analog sound. I had a tech come by the house and he said he could not hear the sound. Ummmm thanks. He switched out the Motorola HDMI DVR for another and the sound persisted. Any ideas on what is going on here? The tech's final response was for me to call ABC.....ummmmmmm where do they find these people? Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards,

-emoney

My ABC HD channel (4.1) has been having audio and visual problems...popping audio and wierd pixels popping up all over the place--probably a few times a minute.
I haven't seen (or heard) the problem here in Anacortes at all.

I haven't seen (or heard) the problem here in Anacortes at all.


Hey, Art -

I am using a VIZIO set with built in QAM decoder to receive Comcast digital cable, and I have off air capability as well. I have yet to hear the noises that have been described here. It appears to be primetime hours only, local is fine.

So far the common thread seems to be the Motorola set top box.

Don

Hey, Art -

I am using a VIZIO set with built in QAM decoder to receive Comcast digital cable, and I have off air capability as well. I have yet to hear the noises that have been described here. It appears to be primetime hours only, local is fine.

So far the common thread seems to be the Motorola set top box.

Don
Don,

It looks to me like you could be working on these types of elusive issues for as long as you choose to work.

Nice hearing from you again!

My ABC HD channel (4.1) has been having audio and visual problems...popping audio and wierd pixels popping up all over the place--probably a few times a minute.

How are you receiving 4.1? Comcast supplied Motorola set top box, or direct off cable using a QAM decoder? I am trying to find a pattern since not everyone is seeing the same thing.

Don

Don,

It looks to me like you could be working on these types of elusive issues for as long as you choose to work.

Nice hearing from you again!

Thanks Dave. I have been monitoring this forum regularly, but Kelly is much closer to the operation, and is much more qualified to address the tough ones.

This one is elusive. Kind of hard to fix a problem that you can't duplicate. It is interesting that viewers are seeing similar issues in the San Fransico area.

I will throw out an invitation for anyone who is hearing the popping. Are you using Comcast supplied box or QAM decoder? Primetime programming or all throughout the day?

Don

I hear the popping through a comcast 34xx box going digital coax into my reciever.
I don't watch much on Komo, but did notice it during ugly betty a couple of weeks ago.
It is pretty bad... my wife even noticed it, and that says a lot!
Komo is that only channel that I am seeing this problem on a regular basis.

Thanks for jumping in here to try and get this resolved Don.

I am using a Comcast provided Motorola DVR box. I can grab you the model number if need be when I get home. It is the high end box with the HDMI Input.

I can only replicate the problem on HD channel 104 (ABC) and only during Prime Time viewing. I can't replicate during KOMO 4 News.

Let me know if you need anymore info!

-EG

Right now I am paying $5 extra for an HD box from Comcast. I notice that their HD DVR is $11.95 per month.

Since this DVR is obviously HD, will Comcast still try to charge me $5 more, thus making the HD DVR actually $16.95 per month?

Right now I am paying $5 extra for an HD box from Comcast. I notice that their HD DVR is $11.95 per month.

Since this DVR is obviously HD, will Comcast still try to charge me $5 more, thus making the HD DVR actually $16.95 per month?

No, it will be $11.95 per month for the DVR, including HD. This replaces the $5 per month charge for the non-DVR HD box. (If you don't have HD, the DVR is still $11.95 -- not such a good deal.)

No, it will be $11.95 per month for the DVR, including HD. This replaces the $5 per month charge for the non-DVR HD box. (If you don't have HD, the DVR is still $11.95 -- not such a good deal.) Now I feel like an idiot for not having it! That is only $7 more. That has to be one of their better bargains.

Now I feel like an idiot for not having it! That is only $7 more. That has to be one of their better bargains.

Last year it was only $9.95, but they do seem to require that you have a certain level of digital service to rent one (not sure which).

I will throw out an invitation for anyone who is hearing the popping. Are you using Comcast supplied box or QAM decoder? Primetime programming or all throughout the day?

Don,

I have heard the popping, but only when it's a network feed, not locally originated. I'm using an LG QAM set-top. I don't know if it's related, but I'll throw it out into the mix, anyhow, since it might indicate some receivers being more sensitive to something(?): I also occasionally get audio pops on KIRO-HD (but have not on KING/KONG, KCTS, KSTW, or KCPQ.)

I'm working from home today and thought I'd take advantage of the MLB Extra Innings free preview. Much to my surprise, the Mariners game is blacked out, even though nobody here is broadcasting today's game. Do the Mariners or their local broadcast partners have the right to black out a game when the local broadcasters choose not to carry it themselves?

...Do the Mariners or their local broadcast partners have the right to black out a game when the local broadcasters choose not to carry it themselves?

Apparently. Perhaps they want to encourage you to listen to their radio version.

Don,

I have heard the popping, but only when it's a network feed, not locally originated. I'm using an LG QAM set-top. I don't know if it's related, but I'll throw it out into the mix, anyhow, since it might indicate some receivers being more sensitive to something(?): I also occasionally get audio pops on KIRO-HD (but have not on KING/KONG, KCTS, KSTW, or KCPQ.)


That is very interesting. This is the first time that I have heard from someone using a QAM decoder. I am keeping notes. Maybe we can find a common thread.
Thanks for the report, pastiche.

Don

That is very interesting. This is the first time that I have heard from someone using a QAM decoder. I am keeping notes. Maybe we can find a common thread.
Thanks for the report, pastiche.

Don

Don,

I've noticed the same thing using my Philips TV's built in QAM tuner with Comcast Seattle (KOMO 4.1). I've only noticed the popping/crackling on prime-time HD broadcasts. I haven't had a problem with any other HD content on Comcast. Thanks for looking into this!

Don,

I've noticed the same thing using my Philips TV's built in QAM tuner with Comcast Seattle (KOMO 4.1). I've only noticed the popping/crackling on prime-time HD broadcasts. I haven't had a problem with any other HD content on Comcast. Thanks for looking into this!

Another interesting bit of information. Do you also hear the pops when ABC is transmitting upconverted SD content during primetime? (20-20, National News, etc.) I spent an hour and a half last evening paying close attention to the audio of "Dancing with the Stars." To me, the sound was perfect.

I am hearing from you guys that the pattern goes like this...a series of pops, then 10 minutes or so of good audio, followed by more pops, more good audio, and so on. It sounds like something elated to a buffer overrun/underrun somewhere in the system. But then why not hear it off the air, or in the studio.

Maybe I am missing something obvious. Are you guys using the built in stereo audio system, or an external Dolby Digital decoder? If so, optical or coax connection?

It might seem overly simplistic, but I would like to know if a receiver reboot would help. Not just turning the power off, but pulling the power for several minutes to make sure that it restarts from ground zero. My receivers get a reboot very few weeks.

I know that this doesn't explain the difference between the networks, but I need a starting point.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys.

Don

I've heard the ABC prime time HD pops using only composite connections from the 3412/3416 to the TV stereo speakers.

Maybe I am missing something obvious. Are you guys using the built in stereo audio system, or an external Dolby Digital decoder? If so, optical or coax connection?
Don

In my case I'm using the built-in QAM decoder of the TV, but I'm routing the audio to a Harmon Kardon receiver's 5.1 decoder (coax connection). Because of the fidelity of this setup, the audio problem is obvious. If I use the TV's built-in speakers, I also notice the problem, but it's less obvious. I've tried all of the audio inputs on my receiver, but that has not made a difference.

For me, the problem seems to be most noticeable with "dense" audio material like speech over music (the Oscar telecast is an example).

I get a "stuttering" audio on KOMO with the QAM tuner on my 23" Sony Bravia, but not on the Sony 55" LCD RP or through the Miglia TVMini HD QAM to my Mac.

I get a "stuttering" audio on KOMO with the QAM tuner on my 23" Sony Bravia, but not on the Sony 55" LCD RP or through the Miglia TVMini HD QAM to my Mac.

Great...that adds an additional piece to the puzzle, Peggy. That pretty well confirms that some receivers are affected and some are not. Now we have to figure out why.

I learned a long time ago that all digital receiver do not perform in the same way.

I am going to try sending the audio through my Kenwood Dolby Digital receiver. Hopefully, I can force it to happen.

Don

I seems like people are using COAX digital or regular audio cables and having these problems. What about using optical? I find that optical is way less prone to audio problems, such as notorious ground loop hum problems, which can result in some odd problems, such as dropouts. All this being said, KOMO-ABC has been prone to audio problems since day one.

I'm working from home today and thought I'd take advantage of the MLB Extra Innings free preview. Much to my surprise, the Mariners game is blacked out, even though nobody here is broadcasting today's game. Do the Mariners or their local broadcast partners have the right to black out a game when the local broadcasters choose not to carry it themselves?

MLB Extra Innings is by definition an OUT OF MARKET package and will black out your local team.

I seems like people are using COAX digital or regular audio cables and having these problems. What about using optical? I find that optical is way less prone to audio problems, such as notorious ground loop hum problems, which can result in some odd problems, such as dropouts. All this being said, KOMO-ABC has been prone to audio problems since day one.
I haven't heard the pops and I use optical from my Comcast HD box to my Kenwood Receiver.

Here's the testing I have gone through. I have a Comcast Motorola DVR box connected to my Samsung LCD tv via HDMI. I have a Denon receiver and am using the digital optical out of the Comcast box and connecting it to my receiver for audio. With this setup the popping sound is constant during ABC primetime and most noticeable when someone is speaking.

I have also removed my denon receiver from the equation and used the tv's internal speakers with composite cables hooked up to the Comcast box. Although the popping was not as noticeable it was definitely still there.

I'm starting to think that this is a Comcast Cable box issue.

I first noticed the problem 3-4 weeks ago. Did Comcast send out a firmware/software upgrade to the boxes recently?

I also had a Comcast tech switch out my cable box for a new one. Same Motorola model- and the problem still persists.

Here's the testing I have gone through. I have a Comcast Motorola DVR box connected to my Samsung LCD tv via HDMI. I have a Denon receiver and am using the digital optical out of the Comcast box and connecting it to my receiver for audio. With this setup the popping sound is constant during ABC primetime and most noticeable when someone is speaking.

I have also removed my denon receiver from the equation and used the tv's internal speakers with composite cables hooked up to the Comcast box. Although the popping was not as noticeable it was definitely still there.

I'm starting to think that this is a Comcast Cable box issue.

I first noticed the problem 3-4 weeks ago. Did Comcast send out a firmware/software upgrade to the boxes recently?

I also had a Comcast tech switch out my cable box for a new one. Same Motorola model- and the problem still persists.

Hmmmm. OK, let's try an experiment...when you have a program that includes the popping noise, try recording with your DVR. Then play it back to see if it sounds the same. The thinking is that there is some error correction going on in the DVR playback that may affect the noise.

Here is another line of thought: as you are probably aware, KOMO transmits Dolby Digital at all times, but not all the time is it 5.1. Programs that come to us in stereo only go through the DD encoder and come out with no center, LR or RR information. Only certain programs, such as "Lost" are fed on the network in 5.1 audio. The Dolby encoder processes it and it is broadcast as DD5.1. True 5.1 requires more bits to get through the pipe. There may be some bandwidth limitations somewhere along the line.

It is noteworthy that I have not had one complaint about this problem from viewers receiving KOMO-DT off the air.

I really appreciate all your help in this. I am developing enough information so that I can go to some of the people who were involved in the development of the ATSC system for some ideas.

Don

I haven't heard the pops and I use optical from my Comcast HD box to my Kenwood Receiver.

That is what is driving me crazy, Art. I can't hear it either. I am going to collect all the information I can and then call contacts at Comcast and ABC looking for ideas.

Funny you should ask about using the DVR. I had Lost on there as well as a few other primetime shows and they replicate the exact same popping sound when being replayed. I used these to show the Comcast tech when he was at my house. :-)

I have an original DCT6412 DVR, a Yamaha receiver, and watch a lot of KOMO HD programming, and have not heard the pops. I believe I'm connected with an optical cable.
I am in the area south of the airport. Just another data point.

anyone know why the mariners red sock game is not on espn 2

anyone know why the mariners red sock game is not on espn 2

I just called Comcast to complain that the game is not in HD. They have an automated message which claims that the ESPN2 feed is having technical difficulties. I wonder if that means there is a clause in the contract with FSN which makes them blackout any feed when it is on FSN (even an HD feed, when FSN does not have one). Pretty annoying for those of us who watch HD or nothing.

I suspect the automated message was prepared by customer service people not 'in the know' on this. they have changed ESPN2 on SD 32 to ESPNEWS and turned off the ESPN2-HD feed completely. The only logical assumption is that the FSN-SD blackout restriction prevents the ESPN broadcast here, HD or not.

just what i was thinking,thanks guys

here's stuff to look for later this year from the crystal ball.
-seattle area will change to the tv guide interactive software in an effort to resolve dvr issues. this will be after a few months.
...


I don't look forward to, or understand, that. They seem to have the same problems, and more. Also, we'd lose the ability to limit the guide display to channels we watch.

That is what is driving me crazy, Art. I can't hear it either. I am going to collect all the information I can and then call contacts at Comcast and ABC looking for ideas.
Hi Don,

I have had this problem as well for some time. I am a comcast customer in Seattle (West seattle), using the moto 3416 box. I have both analog (stereo) and dolby digital (optical) runnning from my moto box to my audio receiver. The popping only happens during abc network broadcasts, not local broadcasts such as KOMO4 news, northwest afternoon, etc. I've noticed it commonly happens during Desperate Housewives and LOST. When the popping starts I'll switch back and forth between the analog audio and dolby digital, but the problem remains until it eventually goes away on its own after a few minutes.

Thanks for all of your help and attention to this! It's a bit of a nuisance, especially for rabid LOST fans like me :)

Chris
Seattle WA

i'm viewing comcast digital cable on panny 600u with a cablecard.. do others have a hard time having all the channels on the tv guide? it's weird.. i actually live in bellevue. tried king county comcast lineup and seattle, neither reflect channels above 130 or so that well.

any thoughts?

also, anyone else have audio a little bit off on TNT HD and sometimes 107? usually you hear the words a sec before they say them in the picture.

thx

Thanks for all the input, guys.

Here's what I am beginning to see...

The ABC programs that were produced in DD5.1 audio (not too many, but include Lost and Desperate Housewives) are the programs that are having the popping noises in some, but not all receivers that are connected to Comcast's digital service. It is not present off the air, nor from any other cable system that I have identified.

If you are hearing the problem with other programs, I would appreciate hearing from you.

If you have DVR capability, I would like to know if you hear the same noise while viewing live as with DVR playback of the same program.

Don

Don,

I watched tuesdays? Boston Legal last night (DVR makes it easy to forget what day a show is on :) . Anyway, the recorded version had pops but only in the center channel. It occured most frequently during dialog, never when there was just music. It happens only during the show. There was a high def IBM commercial that I watched and it did not pop at all. I am sorry to say that this is the only channel that this happens on. It doens not happen on any other HD network or cable programs.

My setup is a 6412 and 3412 (happens on both) with optical hookups running DD5.1 on a Denon 2806. I also have a DVHS deck that I could record the show to if that would help.

Thanks for taking on this issue!

Jim

Don,

I've heard the popping noise on Lost, Desperate Housewives, Greys Anatomy, etc. The popping noise is constant through the entire broadcast.

The sound is heard both live as well as when played back over the DVR.

Regards,

-eg

That is what is driving me crazy, Art. I can't hear it either. I am going to collect all the information I can and then call contacts at Comcast and ABC looking for ideas.
Don, I might add here that when I watch ABC prime time shows, I'm usually playing a DVR recording. I'll try watching something live tonight. But, I thought I was always watching a recording when watching the DVR, even in live mode.

Just to add a bit more to the ABC popping puzzle, I have not noticed any popping while watching Desperate Housewives or Boston Legal, recorded on my Tivo S3 w/CableCards, from Comcast channel 104.

--mick

here's stuff to look for later this year from the crystal ball.

-sooner, the subscription & ppv vod stuff will be encrypted.
.

That answer my earlier question .... i guess it doesn't matter now as it soon will all change.

This really is confusing...some hear the noise and some don't. I have never heard the noise off the air or with my VIZIO QAM receiver on Comcast cable. I now have enough information to be alert to which programs to monitor closely.

From what I have heard, I am convinced that it is related to ABC's 5.1 channel Dolby Digital audio. As I mentioned before, programs that come to us only in stereo are feed through the DD encoder and come out the LF and RF speakers. The result is fewer digital bits being pumped down a pipe of finite size.

Here is what I propose:

I would like to make a map showng red pushpins for those locations that are experiencing extraneous noise. And green pushpins for those location where no such noise has been heard, such as mine. Green pushpins will be just as important as red in establishing a pattern. If we do find a pattern, I can go to Comcast and look for some localized problems. In order to do this, I will need some additional information...

1. Your location. Probably not a good idea to give out your street address, but rather nearest cross streets, city and zip, or other information that will allow me to locate the pushpin. If you would rather, you may email me the info at donw@fsci.com. I will not devulge your location unless authorized.

2. Brand and model of you receiver or settop box.

3. QAM decoder?

4. External DD5.1 decoder?

5. Brief description of the noise that you hear.

I realize that a lot of you have given me some of this already, but what is missing is your location.

I have set aside Monday and Tuesday of next week to try to get this resolved, so any information that you can get to me over the weekend will help to fill in the holes.

You have my greatest appreciation, guys.

Don

No popping sounds for me on komo 104 on comcast.
South Prairie Road/239th St East
Buckley, WA 98321
6412 moto dvr
Tivo Series 3 with two cable cards

Good luck with hopefully finding a pattern. I would think it is a regional sort of thing...

No popping sounds
Anacortes, 41st & H
Comcast DST3412 STB, external Denon 5.1 decoder
I'll try to check Desperate Housewives on Sunday with my LG TV QAM tuner

Don,

I've noticed this over the last 3-4 weeks on Lost. I wonder if it's a level or frequency thing. for example, from this week's Lost (4/11), in the recap from last week's show you can clearly hear the pops from only the center channel when the actors are speaking, and then right at the end of the recap when the music builds up in level I can hear it only clearly from the rear surrounds. I've heard it at other times, but this is 100% reproducible.

Hmmm...I just watched Lost last night (via Comcast DVR) and didn't hear anything unusual here in Anacortes.

Hmmm...I just watched Lost last night (via Comcast DVR) and didn't hear anything unusual here in Anacortes.

Art - do you still have it? if so, give a listen to the initial recap at the beginning of the program where Sayid is saying that Juliet can't go with them. I hear it clearly when Sayid is speaking (from the center channel), and then from the surround rear speakers right when the music builds before they fade out (i heard it at other times too, but very clearly here). at least that was one segment where it crackle/pop consistently.

Art - do you still have it? if so, give a listen to the initial recap at the beginning of the program where Sayid is saying that Juliet can't go with them. I hear it clearly when Sayid is speaking (from the center channel), and then from the surround rear speakers right when the music builds before they fade out (i heard it at other times too, but very clearly here). at least that was one segment where it crackle/pop consistently.
Nope, I don't have that part of the show. My STB recorded the first 20 minutes, then stopped and started recording the show again 21 minutes in. I deleted the first part, but not the second. This Comcast box has had lots of trouble. Recording one minute of some shows. Completely failing to record others. And, then two shows the other night, the recording stopped, then restarted a minute later. But, that's another story.

Nope, I don't have that part of the show. My STB recorded the first 20 minutes, then stopped and started recording the show again 21 minutes in. I deleted the first part, but not the second. This Comcast box has had lots of trouble. Recording one minute of some shows. Completely failing to record others. And, then two shows the other night, the recording stopped, then restarted a minute later. But, that's another story.

Nothing will be recorded during any period in which the DVR has lost the signal, so breaks in recording may be symptomatic of a signal strength problem.

Nothing will be recorded during any period in which the DVR has lost the signal, so breaks in recording may be symptomatic of a signal strength problem.
Thanks for that... I'll check my connections...

I haven't heard the prime time ABC popping recently but when I did it was in the Crossroads area of Bellevue (167th NE and NE 8th) using 3412 & 3416 composite audio fed directly to TV stereo speakers.

Another ABC audio problem has been the loss of "center channel" audio (speech) during the first few minutes of some prime time shows.

If and when I encounter any of these problems again I'll take more care to note the details.

Does anyone know what physical channel KYMQ-HD / KYMQ2-HD is on now? I lost it on my HDHomeRun back when they moved KING and I can't find it anymore. I still have the SD feed for it.

Thanks again for your diligence on this issue Don.

1. Your location- 80th and Ravenna Ave NE in Seattle- 98115 is the zip
2. Brand and model of you receiver or settop box. - Motorola DCT3416 I
3. QAM decoder? None
4. External DD5.1 decoder? Yes, a Denon Receiver but I have replicated the sound without this. I ran composite cables from the Comcast box to the tv and heard the popping on the internal television speakers.
5. Brief description of the noise that you hear.- Popping that is constant during primetime television on ABC such as Lost, Desperate Housewives, Greys Anatomy etc.

-Eamon

Does anyone know what physical channel KYMQ-HD / KYMQ2-HD is on now? I lost it on my HDHomeRun back when they moved KING and I can't find it anymore. I still have the SD feed for it.
On my Samsung STB and Fusion card, they mapping out to 96.1 and 96.2 or to the virtual channels of 22.1 and 22.2. I think the Comcast channels are 110 and 116.

Here is another line of thought: as you are probably aware, KOMO transmits Dolby Digital at all times, but not all the time is it 5.1. Programs that come to us in stereo only go through the DD encoder and come out with no center, LR or RR information. Only certain programs, such as "Lost" are fed on the network in 5.1 audio. The Dolby encoder processes it and it is broadcast as DD5.1. True 5.1 requires more bits to get through the pipe. There may be some bandwidth limitations somewhere along the line.

KOMO broadcasts DD 5.1 at 384 kbit/sec at all times. On the non-5.1 programs, all the channels except front left and front right appear to be silent. The bit rate of your audio doesn't change, and 384 is the typical bitrate for 5.1 audio on DVDs. There is something wrong with your audio encoder.

Using 5.1 at all times is not a good thing for your non-HD programming that has dolby pro-logic audio. If you sent it as DD 2.0 audio, people with surround sound setups will get dolby surround audio. Receivers do not do dolby pro-logic surround decoding on DD 5.1 audio, so you have effectively downgraded your dolby pro-logic audio to stereo. Big step backward!


It is noteworthy that I have not had one complaint about this problem
from viewers receiving KOMO-DT off the air.

Consider this a report. I record Lost off the air on my computer since I can't watch it at the time it's on. There is audio popping on the center channel. I assure you, it is not Comcast's broadcast, it's not their dvr (which is an utter POS and why I cancelled my comcast service), and it's not a local thing. The audio you are transmitting has pops in it.

I can tell you that it is not due to poor reception. Each AC3 audio frame has a CRC (two actually) that can verify the data integrity. If I was getting bad packets, there would be CRC errors in the AC3 stream, and there are not.

If you want, I can provide the raw transport stream for a short clip of the last episode of Lost were the audio pops are clear. I could also provide just the AC3 audio stream with the pops, or even an mp3 file with just the center channel audio where you can listen to the pops.

It may be that your AC3 audio is not 100% at fault here. There are some audio decoders that have problem with large dynamic ranges and clip the audio, producing popping effects. I've tested it with liba52, a very common software library for AC3 decoding, and with my JVR receiver. Both decode pops. It is not impossible that they both have some sort of bug. A few years ago a bug was discovered in a common DVD decoding core that effected image quality on something like 90% of the players on the market at that time, google "dvd chroma bug".

Of course, even if your AC3 is technically 100% correct (and I'm not saying it is), if a large number of people can't decode it properly, it still falls on you to do something about it.

To add fuel to fire, I too believe this is not a Comcast fault. Bits are bits. Buts thats my opinion.

Here are some facts as of 8:09 Fri 13.

Greys Anatomy

Center speaker popping on dialog on a 6412 running through a Denon 2806. Mild, not particularly horrible, but still there.

Samsung HLR 5078 with cable card using TV's built in speakers.

Similar popping sound. Harder to notice. I attribute that to the poor quality of built in speakers (why do they even include them... Rhetorical question).

It's not the Mot box, it's the bitstream IMO.

Cross streets: Steilacoom and 87th, Lakewood 98498

FYI: The popping on GA is less intense than it was on Boston Legal. That said, even with the more intense popping on BL, my wife, who watched the show with me, did not notice the popping at all. Now that I've heard it, I'm actually looking for it and so far only KOMO has the problem and only during 5.1 DD. If I find it anywhere else I'll report back.

Don, I hope this helps...

On my Samsung STB and Fusion card, they mapping out to 96.1 and 96.2 or to the virtual channels of 22.1 and 22.2. I think the Comcast channels are 110 and 116.

Thanks for the info. I'm in Lake Forest Park, and I don't have anything on physical channel 96. Must be a local issue. I get everything else, and I got them before they changed KING on 96.1 and 96.2.

KOMO broadcasts DD 5.1 at 384 kbit/sec at all times. On the non-5.1 programs, all the channels except front left and front right appear to be silent. The bit rate of your audio doesn't change, and 384 is the typical bitrate for 5.1 audio on DVDs. There is something wrong with your audio encoder.

Using 5.1 at all times is not a good thing for your non-HD programming that has dolby pro-logic audio. If you sent it as DD 2.0 audio, people with surround sound setups will get dolby surround audio. Receivers do not do dolby pro-logic surround decoding on DD 5.1 audio, so you have effectively downgraded your dolby pro-logic audio to stereo. Big step backward!


Consider this a report. I record Lost off the air on my computer since I can't watch it at the time it's on. There is audio popping on the center channel. I assure you, it is not Comcast's broadcast, it's not their dvr (which is an utter POS and why I cancelled my comcast service), and it's not a local thing. The audio you are transmitting has pops in it.

I can tell you that it is not due to poor reception. Each AC3 audio frame has a CRC (two actually) that can verify the data integrity. If I was getting bad packets, there would be CRC errors in the AC3 stream, and there are not.

If you want, I can provide the raw transport stream for a short clip of the last episode of Lost were the audio pops are clear. I could also provide just the AC3 audio stream with the pops, or even an mp3 file with just the center channel audio where you can listen to the pops.

It may be that your AC3 audio is not 100% at fault here. There are some audio decoders that have problem with large dynamic ranges and clip the audio, producing popping effects. I've tested it with liba52, a very common software library for AC3 decoding, and with my JVR receiver. Both decode pops. It is not impossible that they both have some sort of bug. A few years ago a bug was discovered in a common DVD decoding core that effected image quality on something like 90% of the players on the market at that time, google "dvd chroma bug".

Of course, even if your AC3 is technically 100% correct (and I'm not saying it is), if a large number of people can't decode it properly, it still falls on you to do something about it.

tap -

This is really useful information.

I would very much like to see a raw transport stream if we can make it a reasonable size file that doesn't choke the company email system. If it can be emailed, here is my address. donw@fsci.com

I will have the guys look very closely at the transmitted AC3 stream with the Trivini Streamscope when I am in the station Monday.

I appreciate your thoughtful and useful input.

Don

Don't know if this is helpful, but I haven't seen it mentioned. I have noticed that KOMO is always louder than other channels. Always. Maybe it is a clipping issue, due to a hot signal. It's actually quite annoying when all other channels are even and then I have to turn the volume down on 104.

I would very much like to see a raw transport stream if we can make it a reasonable size file that doesn't choke the company email system. If it can be emailed, here is my address. donw@fsci.com
Don
If the file is too large, I have a web site I would be willing to host the file on. Tap could then ftp the file to my site and Don you could then ftp it from my site. I would be really easy to set up and do. Then file size is not a limitation.

Has anyone in this area had their Comcast box upgraded to Firmware # 1635?

so on my sisters QAM tv with no cable box, had weak signal streangth and bad pizelation on KOMO channel 82-4 for about a month and a half and noticed compared to the other HD stations that were constant at 94% signal, KOMO was bouncing between 10 and 34 percent...never higher. Weak signal from comcast.
I hadn't done a scan for a couple months for her so did it and noticed most stations went to x.1, except komo and kcpq-10 which is 22.1, KOMO is nowhere to be found, after 3 scans....
I set the station number up I think it should be (4.1) and told her to try it every now and then to see if it comes back.

Any one else on qam seeing the signal issue with KOMO?

After placing the red and green pushpins on a map of the area, I see no geographical trends as to where the KOMO popping noise is heard on Comcast. The common thread that I see is that, with one exception, the viewers are using Motorola 3416 or 6412 Comcast supplied set top boxes. Where mentioned, the Dolby decoders are Denon.

I will be in the studio tomorrow and do some digging. Tap's analysis gives me a good starting point.

I really appreciate all your help.

Don

After placing the red and green pushpins on a map of the area, I see no geographical trends as to where the KOMO popping noise is heard on Comcast. The common thread that I see is that, with one exception, the viewers are using Motorola 3416 or 6412 Comcast supplied set top boxes. Where mentioned, the Dolby decoders are Denon.

I will be in the studio tomorrow and do some digging. Tap's analysis gives me a good starting point.

I really appreciate all your help.

Don

Don,

Just wanted to make one thing clear. When I reported hearing popping using a cable card I was NOT using my Denon for decoding. The TV set was doing the decoding. I'll check again tonight on some other 5.1 material.

james,kollar

Does the TV set have a DD 5.1 decoder, or was the cable box decoding and sending stereo audio (Dolby Pro Logic II downmix from DD 5.1) to the TV?

After placing the red and green pushpins on a map of the area, I see no geographical trends as to where the KOMO popping noise is heard on Comcast. The common thread that I see is that, with one exception, the viewers are using Motorola 3416 or 6412 Comcast supplied set top boxes. Where mentioned, the Dolby decoders are Denon.

I will be in the studio tomorrow and do some digging. Tap's analysis gives me a good starting point.

I really appreciate all your help.

Don

I too get the popping and I'm using my QAM tuner in my new Samsung LNT4061F TV. I also have a Yamaha Receiver. I hear it on the same set of primetime programs. I don't think the Motorola boxes are the problem. I'm up in Mountlake Terrace. BTW, I agree that KOMO tends to be a little louder than the other big three networks. I have a friend who gets his KOMO signal OTA, and he said that he thinks he has heard it before on his TV. He's going to pay attention and let me know. Good luck in tracking the issue down.

james,kollar

Does the TV set have a DD 5.1 decoder, or was the cable box decoding and sending stereo audio (Dolby Pro Logic II downmix from DD 5.1) to the TV?

I actually have the coax hooked directly to the TV. The cablecard and TV do all the work, no cable box. Still has popping sound over the TV's speakers. TV is doing the decoding. From my simple experiment I don't think the Mot boxes are at fault.

I actually have the coax hooked directly to the TV. The cablecard and TV do all the work, no cable box. Still has popping sound over the TV's speakers. TV is doing the decoding. From my simple experiment I don't think the Mot boxes are at fault.

I've got the Tivo Series 3 box and have the problem. I agree it's not just the boxes since it seems to come from a variety of devices, it is more than likely in the stream itself. so it's either a problem coming into KOMO, or an issue once they send it back out again

I wonder if KOMO keeps a copy of the incoming stream from ABC (since many of us have the ability to save a copy of the stream that KOMO sends, we can confirm it after they send it out), that way they could isolate it as to the source if they know where exactly we're encountering the issue

I actually have the coax hooked directly to the TV. The cablecard and TV do all the work, no cable box. Still has popping sound over the TV's speakers. TV is doing the decoding. From my simple experiment I don't think the Mot boxes are at fault.
Sorry, I must have missed or forgotten that.

Unfortunately, I have no QAM tuners in the house, nor do I have a Comcast cable box.

I do not see any problem OTA on either of my HR10-250 HD TiVo's (actually one is my wife's, I'd best not claim it if I know what is good for me).

I believe that I heard the noise that you are talking about off the air this afternoon during the Basketball game. It lasted about a half second, a quick burst of 5-6 snaps, then back to normal audio. The level was probably half that of the announcer's voice. I heard it once, and didn't notice it again.

I now know what to look for.

Don

Sorry, I must have missed or forgotten that.

Unfortunately, I have no QAM tuners in the house, nor do I have a Comcast cable box.

I do not see any problem OTA on either of my HR10-250 HD TiVo's (actually one is my wife's, I'd best not claim it if I know what is good for me).
That's ok. :D It doesn't hurt to help clarify.

So you say it's not OTA. Sometimes the problem can be quite subtle. Other times it's very annoying. Are you using SPDIF or Toslink and decoding to 5.1? I 'm sorry to ask this because it should be obvious that any self respecting AVS member would not be using analog outs. :rolleyes: :D

On one HR10 we are using HDMI set for PCM audio (directly connected to TV which does not decode DD).

On the other we have an optical connection to a Kenwood A/V receiver and decoding DD 5.1. I am only using analog audio outs to feed my DVD recorder from one HR10.

I need to watch/record more KOMO-DT prime time programs to give a fair assessment of OTA performance.

If the file is too large, I have a web site I would be willing to host the file on. Tap could then ftp the file to my site and Don you could then ftp it from my site. I would be really easy to set up and do. Then file size is not a limitation.
I cut it down to less than 4 seconds, but it's still 9 megabytes. I don't have enough space to host that myself. I might be able to email it, but I don't normally email such large files, so I'm not sure if it will work.

Alternatively, I could strip the video PID from the file. Then it would be quite small.

I may be able to get a TS stream for the same part recorded off the ABC station in New York to compare against, to see if their audio has pops too.

I know that KOMO's video shifted off to the left by 7 pixels, compared to the video from the station in NY. KOMO's video has a black and green band on the right hand side of the image (you won't see it on a TV, due to overscan, but you will on a computer) and 7 pixels on the left hand side are cropped off. You can see the green line in the original picture here (http://www.speakeasy.org/~xyzzy/sws.html).

FWIW, I've not had the issue using a HD Homerun device and SageTV, but some of my ABC recordings may be done off a Fusion card from OTA.

I've been hearing the popping/crackles for months now. I actually posted about it awhile back.

In any case, after doing some careful listening, I think it is somewhat frequency/level dependent. When I watch Grey's Anatomy, it tends to do it much more during periods where there is music playing. However, I've noticed that it also crackles during dialog, too.

It happens on pretty much any prime-time show in 5.1 (GA, Lost, etc.). As for my info:

1. Location: Lake Wash. Blvd. N. near Coulon Park in Renton (right near the bottom of Lake Washington).

2/3. Receiver/Decoder: Tivo Series3 w/two Comcast CableCards (I believe they are both Motorola).

4. External DD5.1 decoder: Onkyo TX-SR504 (connected via Optical to the Tivo).

5. Brief description of the noise that you hear: As noted above, crackling during audio (perhaps more prevalent during higher frequencies? - I haven't done a complete analysis, but this seems to be the case to me) and louder scenes. This happens both during live watching (on my Sony KDL-40XBR1) and playing back recorded programs on the Tivo.

Thanks for your help!

Dougieha