would it be better to argue that I cant receive the FOX signal that well or that they dont broadcast HDTV at all? I live in an apartment so I dont know how to rules work since I would not have access to the roof for an antenna.

I haven't kept up with the changes in the rules outlined in the new SHVERA. If you can't put up an antenna, then I would pester our local Fox affiliate until they grant you a waiver. State whatever you want to get the point across that you can't get an OTA signal, and that they don't yet broadcast an HD one. Don't get nasty, just be persistant.

I mean that "technically" I dont think I have a legitimate reason to compel them to give me the waiver. I'm guessing there is no rule saying that if a station doesnt have HDTV, then they have to give me a wavier. and I think the rule about being able to receive a grade A signal doesnt apply if I'm not using a rooftop antenna.

so without a "legitimate" reason, I guess I will just try and pester them until they just give up and grant me the waiver. or they'll just put my email address on the ignore list.

At the very least it may help speed up their plans to start HD delivery. And with your location, a good indoor antenna may get you the HD signal.

Hi i just found you guys. I repair TV ect in Oxford and am just starting to look at what is on and i am surprised that HD is not on in Binghamton.
I have my own cable system for 2 houses and am starting to put in HD equipment at the head end on my hill. Calls to Blonder Tongue make me think they know less than i do. It looks like i have to build the equipment myself.
Is WSKG on CH 42?
John

I forgot to ask if you know about Free To Air FTA satellite lots of stuff and HDTV.
I have not done anything with the HD but it is there and not scrambled.

Hi John,
Here's the list of Binghamton digital OTA with their digital channel assignment.



Ch 12-1 (WBNG - CBS) (VHF 7) doesn't have HD.
Ch 34-1 (WYVT - ABC) (VHF 4) is broadcasting HD from the network.
Ch 40-1 (WICZ - Fox) (VHF 8) doesn't have HD.
Ch 40-2 (WBPN - UPN) (VHF 8) is a subchannel and has no HD. (analog is ch 10)
Ch 46-1 (WSKG - PBS) (UHF 42) broadcasting national HD signal
CH 46-2 (WSKG - PBS) (UHF 42) subchannel broadcasting local PBS - not HD.

You may also be interested in this forum. There's a Binghamton section.
http://www.rochesterhdtv.com/

I got a reply from WICZ FOX, steve miller, the engineer.
He wants me to call him so we may "clear this up"

not sure if that is good or bad

Anytime the station engineer want to talk to you, I'd consider that a good thing. It means that they are interested. I'm noit sure why it could be a bad thing. What can they do? Take away a waiver you don't have?

Let us know what happens.

yeah, a response is always good. I'll call him and let you know how it goes.

Well, I've finally joined the HD age, having picked up a Samsung HC-R4755 with stand at Sam's Cub (can't be beat for the money, IMHO). (Watching MNF in HD right now, wow! :cool: )

Spent the better part of the weekend fooling aroundwith my antenna installation. Tried the attic first, no luck. Now I have it mounted to my Chimney, so its the highest point of my house. (I first had an old antenna, and then swapped it out with a new one from Lowes, rated "BLUE" which is supposedly what I need according to antennaweb.)

PBS-HD comes in rock solid (no breakups whatsoever), but all the other digital channels have frequent break-ups (some worse than others). ABC-34 is fairly watchable, but still breaks up regularly. I'm wondering if the tuner in the Samsung is not up to snuff (which wouldn't be too surprising given the price of the set). I'm pretty sure the antenna is aimed correctly, so I wondering if a preamp would help.

Any comments/suggestions? (BTW, I live in Vestal off of Rano Blvd, about 2/3 up the hill).

do you have lots of trees and stuff between the antenna and the towers?

Interesting, my ABC reception is what is rock solid, with only a few audio drop outs. PBS is the one that is spotty for me. I'm in Chenango Bridge, a mile out River Road. The towers are about 9 miles as the crow flies, with Crocker Hill in between. Loss of channel lock is most likely caused by multipath not a weak signal. Multipath is to digital as ghosting is to analog. So what Enrico is saying is that the trees could be causing multipath.

and, I dont remember exactly, but isnt the ABC transmitter alot more powerful than fox and cbs, etc

The antenna is pretty high, and the nearest trees in the direction of the antenna are pretty far away ( and at or below the antenna, as near as I can tell). I have an Avermedia A180 coming, but I'm worried after reading more about it that its tuner might not be that great either. Did I read somewhere that one or more of the local stations loan out a digital tuner? It would be nice to see what effect the tuner quality has.

Regarding station power, are the stations broadcasting in "full power" yet, or will they increase the power in the future?

Here's the query on the FCC website for Binghamton TV stations.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=NY&call=&arn=&city=binghamton&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

Post #257 above shows what stations are broadcasting digitally.

Here's the query on the FCC website for Binghamton TV stations.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=NY&call=&arn=&city=binghamton&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9


Very interesting page. Now if only I knew how to read it :o

ERP is effective radiated power. That is transmitter power and gain of the transmitting antenna. I just glanced at it but it looks like some are not running any power to speak of they are just there. With so few people watching i can see were they do not want to pay thousands of dollars to the electric company.

It looks like that list is messed up or not up to date.

Called up Steve, nice guy, from FOX today. Good/Bad news.
He would not give me a waiver, he said that from my location, I should beable to pick up a great signal. I'm not sure but I think he may have even driven out to my location and looked for himself.
I explained my setup and he seemed to focus on having me make sure I plug in to the "AIR" plug, no the "CABLE" one and that I am scanning for channels correctly eventhough I explained to him several times that my setup seems ok.
I'll prob try moving my antenna around more to see if I can get a better signal.

The good news.
I complained about how they arent even broadcasting HD programming and he said that he plans to begin broadcasting HD by the end of the year. I mentioned that its already mid november and he said made a comment that there's still 5-6 weeks.
He also plans to add more subchannels for weather and music.
He said that he has "penciled in" for the transmitter to be upgraded to 15kW from 7.8kW.
so it seems like he has alot of plans for the near future.

He said he is waiting on equipment and installers, he mentioned something about the hurricaines down south causing delays for availability.

Anyways to sum things up, I still have no HD and no waiver, but if I can fix my setup and get a better signal, then I (all of us) may beable to get HD by the end of the year.


Also, he even offered to help me with my setup so I think what he says seems genuine. I'm still doubtful that we will see HD programming anytime this year based on past experiences with other TV stations, but we will see.

Another thing, I mentioned that I could receive ABC in HD and he said that is strange because ABC is broadcasting at the lowest power and height. I thought that they had the highest power, but maybe not.

Sorry about the bad news, and the good news isn't really all that good as far as HD is concerned. By adding subchannels they will be bit starving the main HD channel. Thus the PQ will suffer. They already use a subchannel for UPN and adding two more isn't good news. But, I'll wait to see if the increased power helps my reception. Any word from him about UPN going to its own digital transmitter?

According to that FCC website WIVT-DT is outputting 1.5KW of power, but they have applied for digital ch 34 with 450KW. And, WICZ-DT is either at 7.9KW or 15kW depending on which row you read. I have my doubts on the accuracy of that page.

he said they are currently at 7.8kW and will go to 15kW

he didnt say when he planned to add those other two channels.

I just kept asking him about the transmitter power upgrade and the HD programming over and over again to make sure I was hearing him correctly.

anyways, I moved around my antenna some more and managed 25%, I can see the picture but it drops out every couple minutes.
I'd be happy with any HD.
the direcTV HD is pretty crappy

I'm happy with the DirecTV HD since the only real OTA I get is ABC. The PQ with WIVT is better than DirecTV ch 86, but ch 86 has DD5.1 where WIVT doesn't. We'll see what happens with DirecTV once they get their MPEG4 rollout going with the new sats.

It is still interesting that I get a great signal for WIVT here in Chenango Bridge. It may be because of the low power. The multipath signals aren't strong enough to mess with my receiver.

I get ABC very well too.
the DD5.1 isnt very important to me, because I've never seen a broadcast that uses more than two channels

Monday Night Football uses DD 5.1. As does other network shows. Granted it isn't all that important, but nice anyway.

Man, nothing is easy with this hobby.

I just got my Avermedia A180 today. Compared to my Samsung HC-R4755, I gain some and I lose some. For the digital channels:

SAMSUNG:
12 : not really
34 : almost watchable
40 : yes
46 : yes (best one, no breakups at all)

AVERMEDIA:
12 : Yes
34 : No (not at all!)
40 : Yes
46 : Not really

I think I will try a preamp next. The disppointing thing is that it seems that antennaweb has let me down, since I have a roof mounted antenna ("BLUE" range) and don't get good results at all, even though I have the recommended configuration. Should I get the one from Radio Shack, or the one from Lowes... (hmm....).


PS That is great news if FOX 40 is going to HD, Giant's Football and "24" in HD, YESSS! :D

Actually, you might want to try an attenuator on the antenna. By reducing the signal a little, then the multipath might not interfere. If you have an extra RF signal splitter around, put that in the line to see what happens.

I was pretty certain that an attenuator (splitter) wasn't a good idea, judging by the quality of the analog channels...but I tried it anyways. Didn't help, but thanks for the suggestion :)

Monday Night Football uses DD 5.1. As does other network shows. Granted it isn't all that important, but nice anyway.

really, I'll have to check it out sometime.

usually it says its DD5.1, but then when I look at the actual audio stream, they only use the left and right channel.

I was pretty certain that an attenuator (splitter) wasn't a good idea, judging by the quality of the analog channels...but I tried it anyways. Didn't help, but thanks for the suggestion :)

usually I find that looking at the quality of the analog channels helps me know how good my signal is. especially for channels where the digital and analog frequencies are close.

I get:
WBNG: 40% (decent)
WICZ: 28% (both channels) (barely watchable)
WIVT: 75% (great)

and no NBC

now ofcourse when/if they start broadcasting HD, I'll prob need a higher percentage.

usually I find that looking at the quality of the analog channels helps me know how good my signal is. especially for channels where the digital and analog frequencies are close.



The interesting thing is that PBS is the only channel that has close frequencies for analog and digital (I think, since I don't really know where PBS-HD is since antennaweb doesn't list it). All the other local channels are broadcating digital on VHF channels (4,7, 8).

The FCC TV query page shows the latitude and longitude for the stations.
Try here http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=NY&call=&arn=&city=binghamton&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9
All Binghamton stations are in the same general area.
Here's the in fo for WBPN-LP, our verey low power UPN station.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=NY&call=wbpn&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9
It's curious that this station is in Morris NY. ??? Yet its lat/long puts it with the other Binghamton stations.

I'm new to this forum, but for whatever it's worth...I just converted
my digital direct tv config to hd and purchased the hd programming package for
$ 10.99 / month additional.

As great as the minimal hd programming was, it obviously leaves you frustrated
when you drop down to a lesser signal.

Just for the heck of it I called Direc tv and asked about non-local network
programming in HD from the major networks, and I almost cra..ed my pants
when the customer service person told me no problem, and then really blew
my mind when she told me there was no additional charge because I purchased the HD programming. 1 minute later it was all there. No waivers, No fuss, no
nuttin.

By the way, I live in JC.........

what? so you got all non-local networks and HD programming?

maybe they're using their computer models now.
what does this site say?
http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressEntry.asp

Looks like I only get the program if it's in HD....but thats ok.

I'm going to try any HD programs at 8:00 and confirm if that is
indeed the case, which I think it is.

Man WIVT is really irriating me now. I continued down the path of insanity and installed a CM 3020 monster antenna on my roof (13 feet long :o ). STILL GET FREQUENT DROP-OUTS on ABC, arg! :mad:

The other channels improved a lot, but why oh why can't I get ABC consistently. Multi-path I suspect, since it certainly isn't anntenna size :(

OK, so I called WIVT this morning and found out some information.

- WIVT digital (34.1) is being temporarily broadcast on channel 4 at a whopping 1.5KW :confused: The "final" channel will be at 34 once the transistion to digital is complete. (No information about final power is available).

- WBNG (CBS) is on channel 7 and will stay there
- WICZ (FOX) is on channel 8 and will stay there
- WSKG (PBS) will go to 42.

1.5KW??? No wonder I'm having trouble, that's the power of a hair dryer for crying out loud!

The other bummer is our local market is splitting the spectrum still, requiring a VHF/UHF combo antenna for the rest of eternity.

Oh well, now I have this rediculously large antenna on my roof and I still can't get all the local channels.

Well, once WIVT goes to ch34, then some UHF only antennas may work. Since 7 & 8 are High VHF frequencies. What's interesting is that WIVT is quite consistant for me. I do get some audio dropouts, but the video is very constant. I'm about 9 miles from the towers to the NE with a hill in between.

Does anyone in the greater Binghamton Area know if NBC or WB or UPN will ever go digital OTA?

Over the past 30 years i have sold the Channel Master 4228 8 bay UHF antenna and it has worked better than any other UHF antenna. People no longer buy antennas and i guess that is why Radio Shack no longer sells them. That antenna works better on channel 12 than the radio Shack ones do. That makes me wonder how good it is on channels 7 & 8.
In every case Channel Master 3612 VHF antenna has worked better than any Radio Shack one and i sold lots of them over the years. Funny thing is people no longer want a antenna on there house. I had a customer that bought a RS all channel antenna and 12 was so bad you could not watch it he tried the 8 bay and and 12 was great.

When it comes to antennas you never know. For years i had a Channel master channel 3 that i was keeping in case the one i was using needed replacing. Well it came time to replace it and the new one gave me almost 1000 Mv on the video with good color but no sound carrier to be found. I tried changing the height ect. and nothing gave me sound. I then removed the front directors and everything was fine. They no longer make single channel antennas but years ago when i sold them i never got one back so i must have got a bad one cut for some other channel. Channel Master was sold to a company that makes broadcast antennas but i can not remember the name.

John

Do you guys know that there is free HD on free to air satellite?

John

What are your impressions of the Winegard Square Shooter?

And yes, I do know about FTA. I have looked into it a little and may do more during the next few months. However, currently I have most of the HD I need at the moment, except for TNT-HD, WB-HD, and UPN HD.

I do not know anything about Winegard other than years back they were supposed to have the best UHF antenna. I went out of my way to get one and found it was not as good as the CM 8 bay UHF. I understand Winegard makes good antennas. The best way to go is a cut to channeL or VHF lowband 2 to 6 VHF or high 7 to 13 and never use a all channel for the best UHF.

John

FWIW. With the loss of the leaves, I'm starting to lock onto my CBS affiliate (analog ch12, digital ch 7). The bad news is that they still haven't started to broadcast any HD. And the SD is absolutely horrible. Fuzzy and over saturated.

Will the use of this coax help with multipath problems?

I read that it will on another forum.

Will the use of this coax help with multipath problems?

I read that it will on another forum.

I can't imagine it would have any effect. Multipath is an antenna phenomena, not a wiring phenomena (AFAIK).

And by the way, I agree that channel 12's digital feed is HORRIBLE. So much for being the "leader" in this region...

I didn't really think that a change in cabling would help. Just thought I'd throw that out for comments. Do you know if ch 12 has increased their power output?

Regarding the station's power, the link you posted above is actually very useful (posted here again for convenience : http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=NY&call=&arn=&city=binghamton&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9)


WBNG ("12") is transmitting (digital) only at 1.22kW, but have applied to go to 20.4kW and they have a contruction permit to do so. (If you click on the station call letters, you get a page that shows the first entry for that station, then if you click "next record" you can see the next entry in the table for that station). I have to conclude that there won't be an interim boost in power for any of these stations until they jump to the power levels as listed in the table.

I just don't trust the data in that link to be up to date.

Only time will tell the story.

Hello all. Good to find a local thread on HD broadcasts. I just got my new HDTV delivered on Friday. I had regular Time Warner Cable, and I did a channel search which found a couple of the local digital broadcasts (WBNG and WBGH). The WBGH signal was amazing. I watched Conan O'Brien on Friday night, and I felt like I was in the audience.

On Saturday, Time Warner Cable came to hook up a digital box in order to get the rest of the HD channels. The cable HD channels are amazing; however, the networks are very poor (excluding PBS). In fact, I no longer even can find WBGH (channel 700). It is completely black! I wasn't impressed with the TWC service at all. The tech took absolutely no time making sure everything was hooked up correctly, and could have cared less when I told him I requested a box with HDMI support, and all he had was a box with component hookups (he even admitted he didn't know what HDMI was ... scary). He then told me he gets paid by the job not by the hour. No wonder he wanted in and out!

I think I'll be taking the STB back tomorrow to try and swap for a CableCard. Hopefully, they'll let me make the switch in person, instead of waiting another week+ for another appointment.

This looks like a great source of information on the local HD news. It's good to hear that Fox will be upgrading to some digital broadcasts, hopefully before the new season of 24 starts.

So, where is WBGH-HD coming from? Because it ain't OTA. And, WBNG-DT isn't broadcasting HD OTA yet. So, they must be providing HD directly to TWC. Damn cheapos. They are so tightly associated with TWC it isn't funny.

What about WIVT (ABC) on TWC? They are broadcasting HD OTA.

You may also find the Binghamton section on this site interesting.
http://www.rochesterhdtv.com/

So, where is WBGH-HD coming from? Because it ain't OTA. The digital tuner in my TV picked it up when I did the initial channel set before I had TWC's STB. The quality was jaw dropping good. Then the TWC tech came on Saturday, and the channel certainly didn't have the pop it did the night before. Now the channel is gone all together. Not sure what the deal is, but I hope the CableCard will give me that channel back, along with the quality it once was, since I'll be taking the weakest link (STB) out of the chain.

And, WBNG-DT isn't broadcasting HD OTA yet. So, they must be providing HD directly to TWC. Damn cheapos. They are so tightly associated with TWC it isn't funny.
I may have jumped the gun. It's labeled DWBNG, even though it's grouped with the rest of the HD channels (ch. 750). It sure isn't HD. It looks very very poor.

What about WIVT (ABC) on TWC? They are broadcasting HD OTA.
That's very good quality actually. I'm looking forward to Lost; too bad that's all I watch on ABC. :)

You may also find the Binghamton section on this site interesting.
Thanks for the link and the reply.

I am thinking of switching to TWC because I can save about $45 per month for phone, internet and tv programming. My question is other than the sa 8300hd box do any of TWC's HD set top boxes have the HDMI output and are all outputs active all the time? Thanks for input.

Bill G

I am thinking of switching to TWC because I can save about $45 per month for phone, internet and tv programming. My question is other than the sa 8300hd box do any of TWC's HD set top boxes have the HDMI output and are all outputs active all the time? Thanks for input.

Bill G

I stopped by TWC in Binghamton today to exchange my cable box for a CableCard. They told me it had to be done by a service technician, and there was no reasoning with the lady. I guess that's why we pay through the nose for our cable -- To employ people who put cards in slots, and dial a phone number.

Anyways, yes they do have the boxes. I originally requested one (but they didn't install one). I asked the customer service lady today if they had any, because I'd swap that box for an HDMI box until the rocket scientist comes in to put the card in the slot. She called someone who said they did, but they were all out.

My Dad in Jamestown has a box with a DVI output, so if you can't get your hands on an HDMI box, try for a DVI box and get a DVI to HDMI cable. The only downside to this is that you still have to run a separate cable for audio.

Okay, I'd like impressions from you guys with TWC HD.

Exactly what channels do you get and how is the quality?
Do you see motion artifacting? How about pixelation?

Standard HD:
700 - WBGHH (NBC) - I noted previously that this wasn't broadcasting. Today it's back. I asked TWC when I was there earlier, and they said the channel has been having some problems, but didn't elaborate. When there is a signal it is very good. I'm looking forward to the Winter Olympics.

703 - WIVTH (ABC) - Watching Monday Night Football right now. It looks very good.

704 - WSKGH (PBS) - Good signal. I have noticed more artifacting on this channel than any other so far.

705 - DSCHD - Excellent. I think this is my new favorite channel.

706 - TNTHD - Excellent. I've watched a few movies on this and have noticed very little to no image degradation.

Premium HD Channels:
710 - HBOHD - Offered, but I don't subscribe.
711 - SHOHD - Offered, but I don't subscribe.

HD Tier Channels - I think it's an extra 6.95 a month for the following channels:
715 - INHD - Excellent. Watched a few programs on this, and they all have been excellent so far.

716 - INHD2 - See INHD comments above.

717 - HDNET - Very good. I haven't watched this too much, but from what I've seen it looks good.

718 - HDMOV - I haven't watched this too much. So far it seems like the movies they show are older movies, and the quality isn't that great to begin with.

719 - ESPNH - Very good when there is a HD signal. A lot of what they show is not in HD. I did watch some Sunday night football last night in HD and it looked excellent.

Granted, I've only watched these channels for a few days, but so far I've been impressed with the quality. Very minimal artifacting / pixelation.

Thanks for that info.

So, no CBS HD (WBNG)? You mentioned ch 750 earlier as DWBNG.

And, is the TNT-HD content really in HD? Or just widescreen? I'm asking because TNT-HD is carrying the earlier seasons of ALIAS. But then I don't know if the earlier seasons were even in HD.

Bottom line is that only TNT-HD and the INHDs I don't get from DirecTV. And PBS-HD, which I get most of the time OTA.

Thanks for that info.

So, no CBS HD (WBNG)? You mentioned ch 750 earlier as DWBNG.

And, is the TNT-HD content really in HD? Or just widescreen? I'm asking because TNT-HD is carrying the earlier seasons of ALIAS. But then I don't know if the earlier seasons were even in HD.

Bottom line is that only TNT-HD and the INHDs I don't get from DirecTV. And PBS-HD, which I get most of the time OTA.

That's correct, no CBS HD. I mistakingly put the CBS digital feed (750 DWBNG) in a prior post because it immediately follows the HD channels. It's just a very poor digital signal.

TNT-HD is broadcasting some HD content (can't vouch for everything). I watched the first two Lord of the Rings movies on it yesterday and it looked superb.

What's really sad about WBNG, is that this was the first station in our area back in the 50's (then WNBF) and used to be the first one to upgrade their system. They have a nice fairly new studio in JC, yet can't find the money or will power to go full fledged HD.

Our ABC affiliate (WIVT, was WMGC) was the poor station in the area, yet they have a great HD signal.

Obviously, WBGH is passing the network HD through to TWC, because they don't even have a digital signal yet. And, their analog signal is low.

Down in Elmira, WETM's HD feed on Channel 700 is pretty awful. Sports are generally unwatchable because of all the breakup, artifacting, etc. Leno and Conan aren't too bad, but when there's a lot of movement there's much breakup. Prime-time programming seems acceptable and much better than standard signal, though I don't watch much on NBC.

I guess I won't be giving up my DirecTV network HD feeds anytime soon. :D

The so called Greater Binghamton Area isn't ready for primetime.

Well, another NFL playoff season in the Binghamton area with no HD on CBS or Fox. Is there any chance we will have these networks in HD by *next* football season?

And for those who don't care about NFL there's also a new season of 24 soon and shows like CSI already on.

I have been an unregistered lurker in this thread for a long time but I had to register so I could actually vent with others in the same situation.

I hear your vent. :) And welcome to the forum.

Two years ago when CBS had the Superbowl and I discovered that our local CBS affiliate was broadcasting digitally, I sent them an email asking if they'd have it in time for the Superbowl. The answer was no. Then I found out that DirecTV was going to broadcast WCBS in HD and since I didn't have a waiver in place for CBS, I pestered WNBG enough that they gave in and granted me a waiver. So I now get all four nets in HD. :)

Unfortunately, this story doesn't help you in Endicott.

As to the chance of CBS and/or Fox actually broadcasting HD by next year? I suspect they will, but I'm not holding my breath. Now, when might we get OTA NBC in HD locally? That's a whole different story.

Im so sick of waiting for WBNG and FOX in HD but I dont wan't to pay for both TWC and sat
what kills me is even regular higher channels HBO ect non HD still look 10 times better than
WBNG's crappy vision. It going to stink watching the blurry bowl

You may be interested in the discussion of Binghamton's dismall state of OTA HD on this forum. http://www.rochesterhdtv.com/viewtopic.php?t=60
There's a lot of repeat there. Gee, I wonder why?

Keep sending complaints to Fox and CBS.

I'm stating my case in this e-mail to WBNG in hopes to get them to give me a waiver.

Dear Mr. McNamara,

I am writing in regard to the availability of CBS high definition programming in the Binghamton Area.

I am currently a regular viewer of WBNG and Action News on digital 12.1 over-the-air standard digital SD signal. I also understand that the Binghamton metro market is not large enough to expect an immediate investment in your infrastructure to accommodate HD for the limited number.

As a Directv subscriber, it would be possible to get CBS’s HD programming with the non-local feed from NY under the following two conditions. The first condition is that I pay the additional charge from Directv. The second is that WBNG issue a statement of non-objection to my receiving satellite-delivered CBS programming at my residence in Johnson City.

When I asked the customer service representative at Directv, I was told that they would request a “waiver” for me.

I expect the waiver to be denied since I can clearly receive the SD broadcast over-the-air and there is no financial advantage for WBNG to grant me such a waiver.

I hope that WBNG will consider that a few long-time viewers like me have invested a considerable amount of money with advertisers like Olums, to receive HD broadcasts.

I fully intend on continuing to watch WBNG as in the past, but would greatly appreciate your co-operation in allowing me to receive satellite delivered CBS HD programming. I look forward to WBNG serving the Binghamton area in the future with HD over-the-air, so I could drop the extra charge service that Directv could provide.

Thank You,

Gordon Jackson

Good luck!

When that fails. Ask why is it that WBNG thinks this market is too small to invest in HD when WIVT (ch34 - ABC) can do it. WBNG was the first TV station in the area (WNBF at the time) in the 50's and WMGC (ABC at the time, now WIVT) had and still do have their studios up at the transmitter site. They built a fancy new studio in JC, yet can't offer HD. But, I can see why. They are the ones that brought the cable only WB channel to TWC and they probably don't want to hurt their relationship with TWC by offering free OTA HD.

While I was doing my research on the web for appropriate names and e-mail addresses at WBNG, I found a story about the layoff of 12 employees when the station last changed ownership.

I've been lurking here for a couple of months now and I do agree with you jd, that WBNG is quite incestuous with TWC. I also think the tie to Olum's is a little strange. They proudly announce the HD monitors in the background on Action News are provided by Olum's.

What's interesting is that I can't get WBNG analog very well in my area. Yet their digital signal does come in now and then. WIVT ch34 comes in very well with a few audio dropouts and that is what I watch for my local news. Only time will tell what is in store for "The Greater Binghamton Area" What a joke.

I'm stating my case in this e-mail to WBNG in hopes to get them to give me a waiver.

Dear Mr. McNamara,

......

I hope that WBNG will consider that a few long-time viewers like me have invested a considerable amount of money with advertisers like Olums, to receive HD broadcasts.

.....

Thank You,

Gordon Jackson
I also tried e-mailing Olum's to see if they might be able to convince their advertising partner to go HD to help them sell more HD equipment. Never heard anything back.

Well I wonder what will be in store for us now that WBNG has been sold to Granite Broadcasting. Hopefully something good will come of it:

See the press release here:
WBNG Sold to Granite Broadcasting (http://www.wbng.com/news/local/2198032.html)

Well, it can't be any worse than it is now.

I can't believe Granite's still buying stuff, especially with their stock price being what it is (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GBTVK.OB).

That said, I'm pretty certain they do HD in many of the markets they operate in (I know they do it in Detroit), so you might be in luck!

EDIT: Hmm, seems they're selling the Detroit and San Francisco stations and will use money from those. I hadn't heard about this. I wonder who's buying.

- Trip

I'm wondering how this will affect their relationship with the cable only WB affiliate we have here.

They are broadcasting HD out of Syracuse. :)

I noticed a "CheckHD" link on the Fox 40 web page (which just takes you to a page saying what Digital stations are in our area) and so I e-mailed Fox 40 asking them if they were going HD soon. I received two replies:

---------------------------------------

Thank you for your recent e-mail and for your interest in High Definition broadcasts. WICZ Fox 40 is in the process of offering high definition broadcasts. We were scheduled to be completed by the end of 2005, however manufacturer’s delays have caused us to postpone that date.

At the present time we hope to be broadcasting in high definition no later than January 31st.

Thank you again for your interest in Fox 40 WICZ-TV.

Vernon Rowlands

Director of Programming & Creative Services
Fox40/UPN8
4600 Vestal Parkway E.
Vestal, New York 13850

Phone - 607-770-4040 x316
Fax 607-798-7950
Cell 607-727-7975
---------------------------------------

Then I received:

---------------------------------------
Should be broadcasting HD over the air this week or next. STEPHEN r. Miller, C.E.
---------------------------------------

So, here's hoping.

Of course it could be some time before they get it worked out to get on Time Warner in HD (or maybe they've already got that worked out? I can hope).

Well, if turns out to be true, I'll have to adjust my antenna.

One can only hope that it is true.

Now if WBNG would just get off their duff.

that sounds like great news about FOX.
I spoke with Stephan Miller (I think it was him) on the phone and he told me he planned to start offering HD programming by the end of 2005.
He even offered to come to my house and help me with my setup so I could receive my signal better (since I live on the hill across from the antennas).


Anyways, I've been checking 40 everyday and still no HD.
40 FOX has been looking pretty crappy and I've only been getting about a 60% signal. Hopefully they get around to upgrading soon.
34 ABC still looks "great"
CBS is crap but I never watch CBS anyways.
I'm still getting NBC over DirecTV although its not REAL HD since DirecTV shrinks it and over compresses it.

What channel are you getting NBC from DirecTV? Ch 382 is the SD version and ch 82 is the HD version. But, you need a DirecTV HD receiver to get that one. Unless the rules have changed again, you should be able to get the HD version since you have the SD version.

What channel are you getting NBC from DirecTV? Ch 382 is the SD version and ch 82 is the HD version. But, you need a DirecTV HD receiver to get that one. Unless the rules have changed again, you should be able to get the HD version since you have the SD version.

I get all the SD channels
I only get NBC in HD.

NBC granted my waiver but the rest were denied.
I think its because I live on the hill across from the towers (north of oakdale mall)

I called directv and asked why only the HD was denied, they told me that actually I shouldnt be getting the SD channels either. and he said "I wont tell anyone if you dont tell anyone"

I can watch OTA ABC in HD just fine.

I never watch CBS or PBS so I am not too concerned about those channels.

I can bairely get FOX on my antenna. My signal is about 21%, I can see a picture but it drops out about every 5 seconds.

The rules have changed regarding HD. I get the HD versions because I'm grandfathered in from a few years ago.

You said that NBC doesn't look like real HD. I watch via channel 82 and when NBC is broadcasting HD it looks just fine.

no because its 1280x1080i instead of 1920x1080i
and the bitrate is lower. I remember it was much better in Chicago OTA.
Its not as noticable if you're use to it I guess.

http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html does some trackign of this.

they measure 82 NBCE to range from 12.7-16.4
and their local OTA broadcast to range from 15.6-16.7
I dont know what these units are though


I remember when direcTV use to have ads stating over "two million pixels"
but 1280x1080 = 1,382,400
far less than 1920x1080 = 2,073,600

I'm still getting NBC over DirecTV although its not REAL HD since DirecTV shrinks it and over compresses it.I based my comment on your shrinking and compressing comment. I didn't think of the specifics of their usage of 1280 instead of 1920. I thought downconversion to 4:3 was what you meant. I guess 720p isn't real HD for you either. ;)

And, I know this will bring some flames, but 1280x1080 is still a whole lot better than 4:3. I also prefer my 16:9 screen to be filled. :p

yeah true, actually changing the resolution doesnt make that big of a difference. The 720p stuff on ABC seems to look better that NBC on DirecTV.
Its just the lower bitrate that makes the difference.

Yeah, I agree, the HD is still much better than the SD. But the SD isnt really that great either (compared the SD I could get off OTA digital).
I prob wouldnt complain if I never saw or didnt know about the higher quality OTA broadcast, but everytime I watch a DirecTV HD broadcast, I'll remember in the back of my mind that a better broadcast exists and I'd beable to see it if I didnt have a few trees and hills in the way. :p

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

FOX IS IN HD NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

well, almost, I'm get 720p but a SD program is on now.
but its stretched to wide screen for some reason.
I guess they are working on it

The next HD program is on Sunday at 6:30, a NFC game

Well they still arent broadcasting HD programming yet.
but I guess its a start

Do you know if they plan to increase their output power?

I still have a problem locking onto their digital signal. My antenna needs to be relocated.

Is the football game in HD?

Then "plan" to increase it but not yet.

I moved my antenna around alittle and got it up to "40%" so now I can watch without drops.

Nope the football game was NOT in HD.
I guess they're still working on it.
still looks like crap

Well I'm watching 24 on Fox 40 in 720p SD. I assume things will look better when it ever goes to HD. It seems clearer than the signal on TW channel 3 (on my rear projection SONY) but the contrast looks a little washed out.

At least it's there! Only a matter of time.

Maybe this might shame WBNG into going HD. They're the last local broadcaster to go HD. Maybe we should call/e-mail Olum's to change their ads to team up with broadcasters that are in HD.

Actually, 720p is HD. That's the normal resolution for Fox. But, WICZ may just be adding an upconverted SD (4:3) to their 720p signal. Thus, it isn't really HD. It can look better when upconverted. I assume the picture is 4:3 and not 16:9 or letterboxed.

This is encouraging, however, that they are working on HD. I wonder what they will do with their OTA subchannel (UPN).

yes 24 looked great in HD back when I was in chicago.

I think they are just upconverting, but I can see ghosting and other blurring.

I remember in chicago, even the SD programming looked much clearer than on cable or sat. I think it depends on the affiliate's hardware though.

would you like to call up the engineer at FOX?
he seems to be open to talking although there seem to be some lapses in his knowledge of HD and antennas and such.

Moving on to another channel. What's going to happen here this fall when WB and UPN merge? Our WB is cable only and UPN is lower power (also carried by our Fox Affiliate on a subchgannel). This merger should be good news for us. Providing they have programming that I'll want to watch. :)

When you do a check HD search is says WB comming soon.

Last night "24" was not in HD. SD 4:3 .

Please provide a link to where you did the search.
Thanks.

http://www.checkhd.com/default.aspx

Also, am I the only person that thinks FOX on the OTA has color isues? Both my HD TV's look like crap when on 40-1. It apears they have the HD hardware up but have yet to see any HD programing. Even the SD 4:3 on there now looks terrable and i have a 93% signal.

I can't say since I can't get a lock on Fox where I'm located. At least not during primetime.

Also, that checkhd link doesn't show WB as coming soon when you enter zipcode 13901.

I put in 13903 since thats my Zip.

Well, I guess its true then. :) However, both 13901 and 13903 are both Bighamton zips.
The call letters listed for the WB station are WNYS, which I think is in NYC.
It also lists a Syracuse station for ABC.
That's not to say that I couldn't get Syracuse with a large enough antenna.
So this info is flawed.

I just noticed my tuner/CableCard picked up channel 702 and labelled it "WICZH" today. Looks like this is where Time Warner will put Fox HD. Currently, it isn't broadcasting anything.

So TWC is supporting cable cards now? I didn't know that.

I just checked FOX right NOW

American Idol is in HD

here's some random caps

http://www.rcsnetwork.com/images/0124-200329.jpg

http://www.rcsnetwork.com/images/0124-200715.jpg

Alright, that settles that discussion.

I have a roof mount on the way. Too bad the weather isn't cooperating any longer.

I'm at about 30% only now and it still looks good.
everything gets alittle "fuzzy/blocky" every now and then

I'm sure it would be alot higher if there wasnt an apartment building and tree infront of me


I'm going to capture the transport stream and try to measure the bitrate

Well, you only have a tree and an apartment in your way. I have a large hill.

well you have all the waivers so you can watch all the HD channels.

I'm guessing that the OTA is a higher bitrate though

Hi all,

Yep, Fox is broadcasting in HD!

I haven't posted here in a while so here's a update of my current HD setup. I live in Binghamton Westside on the second floor of southside facing apartment. I am currently getting 80+% reception on a silver surfer type indoor antenna on 3 channels: ABC (34-1), FOX (40-1, 40-2), and PBS (46-1, 40-2). I can get a good lock on CBS if I move rotate the antenna but that screws up my reception with the other three channels.

Jim

So TWC is supporting cable cards now? I didn't know that.

Yes, after having an HD box for all of 2 minutes, I decided the CableCard was the only way to go. It took some fighting with TWC to get one, they claimed they wouldn't get some in for months, and after I emphatically expressed my displeasure to a CSR manager they miraculously got some in a few hours later. I've had it for over a month now and couldn't be more pleased.

PROs
- Standard def channels considerably better
- High def channels look a little better
- One remote
- TwinView (PiP) now works as it should
- No set top box
- Frees up a component input
- Latency between channel switches are considerably faster
- $1.75 a month rental compared to 6.95
- Channel labels properly display ID and resolution (using STB the resolution was only displayed to the max resolution of the component input)

CONs
- No program guide
- No PPV or iControl (never used them anyways)
- No TWC DVR option either -- here begins the HTPC project.
- Uhh..

oh yeah, I never posted what type of hardware I'm using.

I have a regular "rabbit ears" $5 antenna since the channels are VHF.
I use to use one of those indoor UHF antennas back in chicago but most of the channels here are on VHF.

I have my antenna connected to a MyHD MDP-120 in my computer

I guess you don't care about PBS which digitally broadcasts on ch 42. And, once the analog channels are turned off (2009?) then WIVT ch 34 will move its digital channel assignment back to ch 34 from the ch4 it is now.

Now if we can just get WBNG off its backside and put up HD. :)

what? they're all moving to UHF?
I wonder how that'll affect me reception

No, only 34 is moving back to UHF. Ch 12 is staying with ch 7 and ch 40 with ch 8. At least that's what the FCC site says.

Check this PDF file.
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-05-2649A2.pdf

well abc is the only channel with HD
well fox too now

so those are the only ones I care about now

its interesting, even the SD content on FOX looks better, except for the local stuff. its very obvious because the whole screen sorta flickers then you see this really crappy washed out video.

It makes the difference even more obvious

Just to be complete. But, local PBS has the national PBS in HD.

uh oh, FOX just switched back to SD

well, the FOX40 symbol is still in the corner, but the picture isnt wide anymore and the quality went way down.

nevermind, its back to HD.

I guess they're still working out the bugs.

and I guess its not uncommon for this kind of thing to happen.
I remember even in chicago, sometimes they'd mess up the SD to HD switching

well, I estimated the bitrate and its about 12.3 MBit/sec

If my estimate is correct its quite somewhat low compared to other affiliates.
Its about the same bitrate they use on DirecTV HD.

I'll take some more samples tommorow and compare with ABC

Are they providing DD5.1?

Yes. Idol was in 5.1, but most shows I see are not. they are 5.1 but they only use the L and R channel

The Silver Surfer I'm using is an indoor UHF antenna and I have no problems getting ABC which is on Channel 4. It's probably because I live less than 3.5 miles from the towers. I should try my old pair of rabbit ears just for the heck of it. My ATSC receiver is also a PCI card.

jdspencer: why is it that we don't have an NBC broadcasting affiliate?

NBC is in elmira.
Thats prob the only reason I get the waiver for NBC

I think I have the same UHF antenna you have.
I think I was also able to pickup ABC using my UHF, prob because the signal is pretty strong.
I think the FOX signal is quite weak so I wasnt able to get anything unless I used an actual VHF antenna.

I think if I go adjust the lengths on my rabbit ears to the correct length for the frequency FOX is on, I should get a better signal. I've just been too lazy to look it up and do the adjustments.

Many years ago WICZ was NBC, but they switched to Fox.
And we do have NBC in the area, try tuning to analog channel 20.
The call letters are WBGHCA. Depending on the weather, I see a very snowy signal on 20.
BTW, our low power UPN is broadcasting on ch 10.

Yup,

WICZ in HD, this should put some more pressure on WBNG. I think i might stop by Olum's tonight to look at a second HD set and mention that I'd sure like to see CBS programming on this new set. :D

On my channel list im also getting a channel 27-5 Fox 40 is on there. I also have teh 40-1 40-2. The 40-1 and the 27-5 seem both to be the fox 40 HD. the 27-5 sound seems to be better.
I have the H-20 and the HD-DVR.

I've never seen 27-x on my HTL-HD, but I'll see 8-x when the PSIP is messed up.

I also saw 27-5 for Fox on the Guide. I'm expecting to see WICZ going in and out of HD for a little while till they get it setup just right. I'm not sure what's going on wth the 27-5 channel display. Do you see any actual program information yet? Mine shows no program data yet. I'm using a D* H10 with a Channelmaster 3016 antenna for OTA, in my attic (in Westover) pointed directly at Ingrahm Hill.

I also have the CM 3016 on a 20' mast on my deck. I suspect I have multipath problems because it isn't really that far above the roof line.

I have seen guide data on all local stations for quite some time now. Did you setup the H10 with your zipcode so that the guide data will come down from the sat? This may also fix the 27-x situation. You may also want to put in a secondary zipcode so that guide data comes in for Elmira. Because I do get a very weak snowy analog signal for WETM.

I emailed WBNG two questions. One asked about what will happen with their WB association and the other had to do with OTA HD.

The response was "We have no details yet."

Unsure which question that reply was for. Or maybe both.

Spence,

I have been following your posts since I bought my plasma set on Black Friday. I know you have been battling with the hill in front of you for some time. My situation is a little different. I can see Inghram Hill directly, but my antenna is currently in my attic. I believe I also have some multipath, but I get a ton of OTA signal. I have four drops to an H10 and three D10s. The have used a passive splitter on the 3016 to ditribute the signal out to the four drops. I don't see any analog on the H10 and don't think I ever will be able to. The D10s only pass the analog OTA to the sets attached to them. When I had a channelmaster distribution amp on the antenna I got a nice analog signal for locals including 20 and even 10, but the digital signals were a little too hot and I actually saw signal levels go down on the H10 digital tuner so I went back to the passive splitter. I'm now looking around for a variable gain amp to try.

The variance in signal strengths also seems to cause problems with ATSC tuners. One channel may be just right and with another it's either too strong or too weak. Hopefully, once our locals get their systems finalized it will settle out.

BTW, I don't believe the H10 can receive analog signals, no NTSC tuner.

Well, The Engineer at FOX said that he wanted to add a weather channel and a music channel on 40. Ofcourse that will just eat into the bandwidth for the HD station.

I think it should be expected for FOX to switch between SD and HD since there arent that many HD programs.

I'm guessing that FOX doesnt have much HD equipment so I think it'll always look like crap except during primetime.
For example I noticed that even the SD national commercials looked better than the local SD commercials.

I also think that Fox may end up dropping the UPN feed once the merger of WB and UPN takes place. That would free up that one subchannel. It may not be that bad, since Fox is a 720p broadcaster.

I also think that Fox may end up dropping the UPN feed once the merger of WB and UPN takes place. That would free up that one subchannel. It may not be that bad, since Fox is a 720p broadcaster.

Well, its not that good since I dont doubt the UPN/WB affiliate will be broadcasting digital soon. It looks the same as FOX now, but if I go to 10, I can barely see anything.


Yesterday I measured the "American Idol" HD broadcast at about 12.3 Mbit/sec.

I'll record it again today and also take a sample from ABC and compare.

I might email my opinions over to the engineer at FOX and see what he has to say.

So, are you saying that UPN will go digital on its own? And not a subchannel of Fox?

I'm thinking about buying a HD tuner so I can do some comparisons with the HTL-HD.
Maybe the $70 Radio Shack receiver.

We all know that receivers are not created equal. ;)

well I've been using the MyHD MDP-120 tuner in my computer.
It seems to be ok.

Anyways I did some more measurements today.
FOX, American Idol was approx 8.6Mbit/sec
ABC, Lost was approx 11.2Mbit/sec

note that yesterday FOX was at 12.3Mbit/sec

So it seems that Fox is still experimenting with their HD delivery. Or are they getting those rates from the network?

I didnt monitor my bitrate too much when I was watching in chicago.

I know the bitrate will vary basted on the show but I think for the same show its usually the same.
looking at this chart http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html
most are 14-18mbit/sec (19 being max)

How do you like that tuner for your computer?

I may upgrade to a better desktop and might add a good ATSC tuner to the mix.

I like it because it has a passthru to my monitor.
for DVI I had to get a daughterboard that they sell.

The video looks much better than when it is sent through windows.

but the main reason I got it is so I can record the transport streams directly.
Since its digital, its not doing any frame grabbing, it basically just "downloads" the stream, and saves it. (unlike using an analog frame grabber)

but its kinda expensive

I have a MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org) box hooked up to my TV through DVI. The ATSC card is a pcHDTV (http://www.pchdtv.com). I like the PVR capabilities. Unfortunately, the MythTV computer is a bit too slow to watch PBS at 1080i. The computer is an Athlon XP 2500+ and a nVidia GeForce 5200 with hardware-assisted motion compensation playback. I'm debating whether or not to get a dedicated set-top ATSC tuner or upgrade the computer to a 3.2 Ghz or equivalent processor.

I've thought of doing something like that before, but my TV isnt that great. its bigger than my monitor but its just a regular TV.
The only way to really beable to see the HD is to use the LCD on my computer.
Thats why I like the myHD, because it has a DVI pass-thru. That bypasses the video card alltogether so my computer is always fast enough. The difference in quality is astonishing because the passthru changes the resolution.

I have dual lcd so I can still use my computer and watch TV at the same time, its just alittle annoying that I'm down to one screen if I want to watch HD.

I emailed steve (the engineer at FOX) last night about the bandwidth issues and signal.

Here is his reply:

Will increasing transmitter output Friday. This should help. Not doing
additional streams in near future. Will be working around 13.3 mb.

Thanks for your effort. I'll see if my current antenna location can lock on better tomorrow.

Have you seen an increase in power from WBNG? It seems to be locking in better.
I'm currently getting a signal strength of 62 for ch 7 and 76 for ch 4. Zero for ch 8 and 21 for ch 42. :(

Enrico:

Did you find the volume level of American Idol on FOX last night to be substantially lower than the HD programs on PBS & ABC? The sound format on American Idol is Dolby Digital 5.1 and all of the HD progams I've seen on PBS & ABC are typically Dolby Digtal 2.0. Is the low volume specific to my set-up or to Dolby Digital 5.1 in general?

Thanks,

Jim

Thanks for your effort. I'll see if my current antenna location can lock on better tomorrow.

Have you seen an increase in power from WBNG? It seems to be locking in better.
I'm currently getting a signal strength of 62 for ch 7 and 76 for ch 4. Zero for ch 8 and 21 for ch 42. :(

I'll check, but I think those singal strenth precentages aren't comparable.
Every receiver's software prob uses its own algorithm to figure that out

Enrico:

Did you find the volume level of American Idol on FOX last night to be substantially lower than the HD programs on PBS & ABC? The sound format on American Idol is Dolby Digital 5.1 and all of the HD progams I've seen on PBS & ABC are typically Dolby Digtal 2.0. Is the low volume specific to my set-up or to Dolby Digital 5.1 in general?

Thanks,

Jim

I didnt really notice.
it may be your setup.
I only have two crappy speakers so it combines the 5.1 to 2.0

I'll check, but I think those singal strenth precentages aren't comparable.
Every receiver's software prob uses its own algorithm to figure that out
That's true, but it gives you a relative indication between channels. The scale on the HTL goes to 100. Also, it isn't really a raw power value anyway, but a signal quality.

yeah, and it varies.
for example, tuesday, I was only at "25%" and I could still watch just fine, it would "drop/get fuzzy/blocky" maybe every couple minutes.

Wednesday I was at around 68% (after adjusting my antenna, I also saw it drops, but alittle less often.
you would think a 43% difference would mean something.
And to make it even more strange, on tuesday, I was getting 12.3Mbit/sec, on wednesday it was only 8.5 or something.

anyways, right now
WICZ 61%
WIVT 96%
WBNG 79%

I checked "The OC" tonight, which was in HD.
that was at about 9.8 MBits/sec
A few parts got a little "fuzzy/blocky"
Also, during a commercial, it switched to UPN for a few minutes

Can you tell if Fox 40 has increased their power? I was hoping that it would lock in once the power was increased. I guess I still need to relocate the antenna.

WBNG is locking in very well now. Still not in HD. :(

I didnt notice any increase yesterday
today I seem to be getting nothing now though

The Dolby Digital low volume problem was some misconfiguration on my part.

Anyway, I found that taping my Silver Surfer to one of my windows gives me at least 70% signal on all the local broadcast. I suspect I can probably get the same reception using rabbit ears.

yeah, thats what I thought. The local stuff is at a very very low volume though. all the national feed stuff (HD or SD) has regular volume.

is the "silver surfer" like this"?
http://ai.pricegrabber.com/product_images/9652000-9652999/9652670_640.jpg
I got an ok signal for ABC but not for any other channels. I figured this was because all the channels are VHF so I got the rabbit ears and it cleared things up.

Anyways, I havent noticed any increase in signal strength or anything

For some reason I can't lock onto WBNG very well any longer. I haven't had a chance to relocate the antenna. I'll do it this spring.

Yes that is the antenna. I know I can get ABC without plugging in any antenna (i.e., just using the coaxial cable as the antenna) although the signal fluxes when someone is moving around in the room (multipathing)?

You can buy the Silver Surfer from Sears in Oakdale and try it out. Sears has a good return policy.

Happy Super Bowl everyone.

Jim

You can buy the Silver Surfer from Sears in Oakdale and try it out.

That would be the "Silver Sensor."

- Trip

Any news on WBNG transmitting in HD? I just hooked up an outdoor antenna i bought at Radio Shack and have had great results pulling in stations. I am in Port Crane and am getting the following results on my signal meter.
WBNG Digital - 85%
WIVT HD - 92-96%
Fox 40 HD - 85-90%
PBS HD - 90%
PBS 2nd station - 90%
I also get another FOX station on 26 that pulls 85%

My only wish now is that CBS was broadcast in HD. Also does anyone else get any NBC channels ota?

Thanks

I have no idea about WBNG (CBS) in HD. What antenna did you get? I suspect you get better reception in PC than I do because you aren't as close to Crocker Hill. And, what receiver do you have?

As for NBC, you might want to try ch 20 which is a low power station. My receiver finds it, but there isn't any thing viewable. It is WBGHCA. Or possibly a shot towards Elmira for WETM Ch 18.

I got the VU-190 XR 160" outdoor antenna. My receiver is a Dish Network 811. I'll have to try tweaking the antenna a little to see if I can get WBGH or WETM. I was really surprised at how well I picked everything up. I am new to the antenna game and it was relatively easy for me to install and point everything.

I have the Channel Master 3016, which does give me on again off again reception of WBNG and WIVT, but I need to relocate it higher. That will have to wait for better weather. I'm using the DirecTV HTL-HD receiver. Unfortunately, is doesn't give me a numeric value on signal strength/quality. If I guess at the bar, I'd say ch 7 (WBNG) is about 60% and ch 4 (WIVT) is at 80%. WICZ (ch 8) & WSKG (ch42) are at zero.

My FOX reception seems to fluctuate between 25% and 60% from day to day.
ABC seems to be quite stable and good.

CBS is ok, but who cares, they still dont have HD.
I think its time to complain to them some more.
maybe I can get them to give me a waiver or something.

I was told today that WBNG 12 will go HD in 30-60 days as part of the agreement the new owners of the station made when they purchased it. I hope this is true! Thier digital signal is absolutely horrible right now so I can't wait for them to go HD.

I was told today that WBNG 12 will go HD in 30-60 days as part of the agreement the new owners of the station made when they purchased it. I hope this is true!

Wow...could be good news. I assumed that the change in ownership would eventually lead to HD, but not in 30-60 days.

Where did you get your info?

Good news, if its true (not doubting the poster, I'm just cynical) :-)

I noticed tonight that TimeWarner has added UniversalHD to its lineup (or atleast I didn't notice that channel last week when I first got the box.)

Good news, if its true (not doubting the poster, I'm just cynical) :-)

I noticed tonight that TimeWarner has added UniversalHD to its lineup (or atleast I didn't notice that channel last week when I first got the box.)

Really? What channel is that? I can't seem to find it listed.

Really? What channel is that? I can't seem to find it listed.

It's on 730. The big question is...will it stay after the Olympics is over? We had it for 2 weeks duing the U.S. Open Tennis this fall and then they pulled it.

Assuming the first 2 rounds of the Masters are on U-HD this year, it would be nice to see Augusta in HD.

WBNG in HD in 30-60 days. I would hope so, as it must be humbling to be the last major in the area to come on HD. I've noticed they've stopped advertising the HD monitors from Olums on Action News :)

It's on 730. The big question is...will it stay after the Olympics is over? We had it for 2 weeks duing the U.S. Open Tennis this fall and then they pulled it.

Assuming the first 2 rounds of the Masters are on U-HD this year, it would be nice to see Augusta in HD.

Thanks. It's strange but no signal comes up for me on 730. I have a cablecard so maybe TWC has to do something special to put it in that lineup. Last time 702 just popped in, and I didn't have to do anything.

A few more HD channels and I won't be complaining (that much) when they raise cable 3.00 in April...

Especially since WNBF-TV (predecessor to WBNG) was the first TV station in this area. I would have thought they would want to be the first in HD too!

WBNG in HD in 30-60 days. I would hope so, as it must be humbling to be the last major in the area to come on HD. I've noticed they've stopped advertising the HD monitors from Olums on Action News :)

wow, awesome, I might actually finally have all the channels in HD.

I never thought I'd see this day

Well, maybe CBS, ABC, Fox and PBS. But, I don't see HD for NBC any time soon. They need a full power transmitter of their own, instead of multicasting with Fox. And, then there is UPN and WB.

well anyone can get a waiver for NBC.

I guess we just need UPN and WB.
I dont think UPN ever had any HD programming though, other than enterprise

Yes, I have waivers in place for the four main networks. I forgot that UPN and WB having full power is somewhat moot because they are merging into one network (CW) this September. Maybe the CW will have a local full power transmitter.

As for NBC inthis area. We need a full power station, because not everyone has DBS. And, TWC doesn't yet carry HD for NBC. BTW, TWC is increasing there standard rate by $3 on 3/1. Or is it 3/31?

As for NBC inthis area. We need a full power station, because not everyone has DBS. And, TWC doesn't yet carry HD for NBC. BTW, TWC is increasing there standard rate by $3 on 3/1. Or is it 3/31?

Um, do you mean TWC doesn't carry CBS? I have only had my HD box and TV for about a week - but I've watched quite a few NBC shows in HD on channel 700.

I saw the note about the increase for standard cable in my last bill. To me it looks like they are trying to raise the rates for standard cable to the same as their digital cable rates. My guess is to try and entice people to upgrade to digital cable for no additional costs.

About UniversalHD on 730 - I didn't think it might be just for the Olympics. I was hoping to be able to catch a few episodes of BSG in HD, even if they are reruns.

Um, do you mean TWC doesn't carry CBS? I have only had my HD box and TV for about a week - but I've watched quite a few NBC shows in HD on channel 700.

I saw the note about the increase for standard cable in my last bill. To me it looks like they are trying to raise the rates for standard cable to the same as their digital cable rates. My guess is to try and entice people to upgrade to digital cable for no additional costs.

About UniversalHD on 730 - I didn't think it might be just for the Olympics. I was hoping to be able to catch a few episodes of BSG in HD, even if they are reruns.

Yeah, no CBS in HD yet, but NBC is definitely in HD through TWC. A couple times it has been messed up and the feed seems to be coming from Elmira because it will show different call letters, and I've seen the Elmira news on channel 700 too.

I read on rochesterhdtv.com that other TWC regions are getting Universal HD until after the olympics, and it will then be moved to the HD Tier package.

The problem is that there is no NBC HD OTA in the area. Their SD broadcast is on a low power channel.

Interesting update.

Having done nothing to my antenna, I'm now locking onto WICZ-DT ch 40 (digital 8). So maybe with the power increase has occurred. Here's another weird thing having to do PSIP. My receiver is also locking onto ch 27-5 which is actually 40-1. Both show as digital channel 8. I guess I could do a rescan, but it's fun to see these things happen. Oh yeah, the PQ for both subchannels of ch 40 are a little dark.

However, WBNG-DT can't lock on after being able to all weekend.

Was curious if anyone has heard any additional information about WBNG going HD?

Also, was watching 24 tonight, I really wish the local stations would get their act together when the switch between HD and SD. WBGH switched to SD for about 20-30 minutes - right in the middle of the 2nd hour of 24 - about 10 minutes before the X-Men 3 trailer premier until 10 minutes after. No idea why they'd switch it.

Did they do the same thing on the OTA broadcast, or was it just on TWC?

yup they do that alot.

they even did that in chicago, just much less often.

I recorded 24 tonight from DirecTV ch 88. I don't know about Binghamton's Fox 40 as they aren't yet sending any HD content. Or are they? My antenna needs to be relocated.

Also reported here. http://www.rochesterhdtv.com/viewtopic.php?p=9446#9446 WBNG will have HD up on 4/15. Yeah, right. :)

Anyone having problems with WIVT-ABC dropping out every couple minutes? My signal strength is reading between 91 and 94, but I still get audio and video interuption. All the other OTA channels are fine and their signal strength is less than that of WIVT.

Binghamton's Fox 40 has been showing HD content for several weeks OTA.

I'm not a good one to ask about OTA signal strength. As I said I need to relocate the antenna. My WIVT signal is only at about 60 max and it fluctuates.

Maybe a slight alignment will bring in Fox 40 so I can see the HD. If it gets warm enough this weekend, I may tackle the roof mount.

Anyone having problems with WIVT-ABC dropping out every couple minutes? My signal strength is reading between 91 and 94, but I still get audio and video interuption. All the other OTA channels are fine and their signal strength is less than that of WIVT.

When I had a TV with a tuner, it would do exactly as you describe. Now that I am using a tuner card (VBOX 150), I can't get a lock :mad: Most likely a multi-path problem...

All of the local channels are broadcasting their digital service at relatively low power, compared to what they will be (see this table here, click on the call signs for more info: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=NY&call=&arn=&city=binghamton&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9
)

For example, from the chart WIVT-DT is broadcasting at 1.5kW on channel 4, but have applied to broadcast on digital channel 34 at 450 KW! Being on the low end of the VHF spectrum at the moment doesn't help at all either.

On the other hand, I am very much enjoying FOX 40 in HD, I hope the other locals get going soon!

EDIT : I called a while back and spoke to an engineer at WIVT (just called the number and asked to speak to someone about HDTV). I complained about the power level and he said mine was the first complaint. Maybe if we all call, we could convince them to turn the transmitter power knob up a little bit ;)

ok i'm new to the forum and my question doesn't apply to HD tv but here goes: I just moved to Ithaca (14850), but am originally from an area where a simple rooftop antenna allows me to get reception for all the major networks--essentially, I'm looking to do the same for Ithaca. I'm interested in receiving at least ABC, NBC, CBS, and potentially any others that are available. I saw on AntennaWeb that I will need a violet color-coded antenna for this, but an not clear on all the details, as I did not install the one at my previous home. At my new place, I am not in town and at a pretty high elevation, with no buildings/obstructions. However, I do not own the property and can't make any major installations to the rooftop or yard area...so basically, does anyone have advice on a relatively simple, affordable method for receiving some free tv via antenna? Based on your experiences, is the reception to be expected from such devices of decent quality, or is this a lost cause for the Ithaca area? I'm not home much and have a hard time justifying to myself how expensive it is in this area to get some functional tv, considering I'm used to it being a "free" service...! Thanks!

About where in Ithaca do you live? I live up Snyder Hill and despite my best efforts, the only channel I can get via antenna is FOX. I have tried two very highly rated long range antennas.

-Sean

Whoops, I just saw that you are interested in standard definition. I don't have too much experience with that as I am mainly concerned with HD.

-Sean

Sean--I live on Rte. 79 between Ithaca and Slaterville Springs...thanks for offering to help--i'm sure almost everyone is jumping on the HD boat as well nowadays but i'm sticking to my archaic ways!

What is the current status of local HD on twc?
has anything changed recently?

Southern Tier Binghamton - Time Warner Cable

700 - WBGH - NBC (1080i)
702 - WICZ - Fox (720p)
703 - WIVT - ABC (1080i)
704 - WSKG - PBS (720p)

705 - Discovery HD
706 - TNT HD

Premium
710 - HBO HD
711 - Showtime HD

HD Tier
715 - INHD
716 - INHD2
717 - HDNet
718 - HDNet Movies
719 - ESPN HD

730 - Universal HD - Anyone know what happened to this channel? I got it for a week or two, then it disappeared entirely.

Nothing has changed since the addition of Fox back in January. Universal HD was on channel 730 for a couple of weeks in February, but has since disappeared. At one point I heard it was going to be added to the HD Tier package. All in all, the local channels seem to be slowly improving. I've only had HD for four months now, but I seem to notice less outages and macro-blocking than I did early on.

thanks for the info.
now those 4 network channels all broadcast actual HD content?
how does the quality compare to DirecTV or dish? Directv resizes to 1280x1080 and lowers the bitrate sometimes.
I heard that for cable it varies from system to system.

oh also, DirecTV recently added TNT HD


I've thought about getting cable but I'm really only interested in the HD network channels.

And, where's WBNG-HD (CBS)?

I believe that some cable systems added UHD for the Olympic coverage. Now they need to negotiate for permanent carriage.

And for those that are wondering. DirecTV has these HD channels.
As part of the HD package:
72 - ESPN2-HD
73 - ESPN-HD
74 - UHD
75 - TNT-HD
76 - Discovery HD
78 - HD Net Movies
79 - HD Net
94 - YES (blackouts may occur)

And if you can get DNS waivers:
80 - CBS-HD
82 - NBC-HD
86 - ABC-HD
88 - Fox-HD

There is also ch 101 which is CD-USA (music series) which has HD content on weekends.

you have SAT and Cable right?
how does the quality of the HD network channels compare for you?

Enrico,
Who are you directing that question to?
I do not have both, just DirecTV.

However, I do have an antenna. I can only get ABC at the moment. The OTA picture is better than ABC via DirecTV, but I get audio dropouts and the sound isn't in 5.1. I'm waiting for spring to relocate the antenna.

you have SAT and Cable right?
how does the quality of the HD network channels compare for you?

Nope, cable only.

And, where's WBNG-HD (CBS)?

750 - WBNGHD - CBS
But depsite its name, it's still just a standard definition digital channel, and a poor one at that.

Time to email WBNG asking when they will have HD.

Southern Tier - Time Warner Cable

700 - WBGH - NBC (1080i)
702 - WICZ - Fox (720p)
703 - WIVT - ABC (1080i)
704 - WSKG - PBS (720p)



Not here in Corning area. We do not get channels 702 or 703..

Enrico,
Who are you directing that question to?
I do not have both, just DirecTV.

However, I do have an antenna. I can only get ABC at the moment. The OTA picture is better than ABC via DirecTV, but I get audio dropouts and the sound isn't in 5.1. I'm waiting for spring to relocate the antenna.

yeah I was asking you, I thought you had both.

I have FOX and ABC OTA and NBC on DirecTV
I'm just wondering if it will be any better if I get TWC
The higher resolution of the TWC HD should be better though. I just dont know about the bitrate

Not here in Corning area. We do not get channels 702 or 703..

...and in Oneonta, our TWC gets 702 (FOX) but we don't get 700 (NBC) or 703 (ABC). COME ON, WBNG-HD!

Was curious if anyone had any problems watching Invasion Wednesday night on ABC? I have TWC with the SA-8300HD and recorded it and there was a huge amount of breakup with audio squeals and picture corruption. Got really annoying. I also noticed quite a bit during Monday's episode of 24. Was quite a bit during the last half of the Survivor episode from Wednesday as well.

I'm not sure if I'm having a problem with the cable or the DVR or if it was just bad transmission. I am starting to think I should give the cable company a call, but I always seem to get the run-around from the techs when the show up at the house, so I'm hesitant to call before I rule out other possibilties.

I have checked the signal levels at my house via the 8300's diagnostic screens and they look ok, so unless the signal is dropping out due to something outside on the lines I'm not sure what the problem could be.

Thanks - Al

Thanks for that info. I don't really do a lot of tinkering right now. But the CM3016 is mounted on a 20' mast that sways a bit in the wind. I'm lucky it hasn't blown over. :) I have a roof mount that I'll be using when the better weather arrives and the trees are in full bloom. I'll try the CM with it and then look into your suggestion. I have looked at the Winegard antennas. I got the CM because it was available locally.

jdspencer,

I thought DirecTV did not offer local channels in our area yet. How does one go about getting a DNS waiver?

My waivers have been in place for several years. Before the last round of FCC changes. The whole reason for waivers is so that subscribers that can't get a signal can get the networks. I'm talking analog signals here. I originally got waivers for ABC, NBC, and Fox. CBS denied. Then when I found out that our locals were starting up digital broadcasting, I got an antenna and a DirecTV HD receiver. Then CBS was going to have the Superbowl in HD and WBNG didn't have an HD signal. I emailed them to see if they would have HD by Superbowl time. They said no. Then DirecTV started up the network HD delivery. But, without the CBS waiver I would still be out of seeing the game in HD. I emailed WBNG a few more times asking about their HD plans and finally about DirecTV offering CBS HD. I guess to get me off their back, they relented and gave me a waiver.

The rules have changed, son you need to call DirecTV and have them submit waivers. Chances aren't all that good anymore. :( DirecTV has a eligibility page to see if you may get them. This is only for the SD versions however. Go here http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressEntry.asp

jdspencer,

Thank-you for your response. I was afraid of that. I'll contact DirecTV re: their estimate of local broadcasting in Binghamton. I believe the last time I checked there were no plans!

P.S. I haven't been called "son" in a while...unfortunately...thanks!

jdspencer,

just FYI....here's the latest from DirecTV re DNS....


Standard Distant Network Service
Network Affiliate Channel Status
ABC Eligible
CBS WBNG 12 Grade A (strong signal)
FOX Eligible
NBC Eligible
PBS Eligible

Digital (HD) Distant Network Service
Network Affiliate Status
ABC Eligible
CBS WBNG-DT Grade A (strong signal)
FOX Eligible
NBC Eligible




ELIGIBILITY EXPLANATION
On the left, you’ll find whether you are eligible for DNS (Distant Network Service). If there are networks that list your status as eligible, you will be able to receive those networks with DNS.

If there are affiliates listed on the left with a status of Grade A or Grade B, you will need a waiver from the listed affiliate(s) before we can offer you that network. AFFILIATES RARELY GRANT A WAIVER FOR GRADE A SIGNALS. Much of the time, waiver requests for Grade B signals are not granted by affiliates either.

CURRENT CUSTOMERS
If you currently have DIRECTV® service, and are eligible for DNS and want to add this service to your programming package, call 1-800-531-5000. When you call, you’ll also find out how to apply for a waiver. If eligible, a cost of $1.50 per month for each DNS channel will be added to your current programming package.

NEW CUSTOMERS
If you are interested in getting DIRECTV® service, it’s easy to order online! After you install your DIRECTV® System, you can call the phone number above to add DNS service to your programming selections.

Under the Satellite Home Viewers Extension and Reauthorization Act (SHVERA) DIRECTV is permitted to transmit up to two analog feeds or one digital (HD) feed of LA or NY TV station network signals “for private home viewing” to “persons who reside in unserved households,” if they live in a market where DIRECTV does not provide local network programming. “Private home viewing” is defined as “viewing, for private use in a household by means of satellite reception equipment which is operated by an individual in that household and which serves only that household.” An “unserved household” is defined in the statute as one that receives less than a Grade B signal from their local TV stations. SHVERA requires that we use the Individual Location Longley-Rice (“ILLR”) model to determine whether a customer resides in an unserved household. If you are predicted to receive a Grade B or better signal, you may still request waivers from your local stations. However, past history has shown that the majority of these waiver requests are not granted. DIRECTV and the Cyclone Design logo are registered trademarks of DIRECTV, Inc.

Sorry about that typo. I'll leave it there so others won't get confused about your response. :)

Since our DMA is 156, it will be a long time before we get our locals, if ever. Even if we do, I probably won't get them and stay with the DNS and OTA (hopefully, ours will be HD in the not too distant future). But, the rules could change again and DNS might go away.

Then if TWC ever gets a descent HD lineup, I might switch. But, only if their DVR is better than my DirecTV DVRs w/TiVo.

Good luck with the waivers.

jdspencer,

Just curious, any idea how many members are in this area?

I have no idea how many members are from the "Greater Binghamton" area.

Thank-you.

An update about my situation. In preparation of relocating my antenna to the roof of the house, I attached it to the tripod mount and left it on the deck. Well, lo and behold I was able to get a good signal for ch 8 (Fox) and they indeed are broadcasting an HD signal. It looks pretty good too! I think part of my more recent problem was that the coax connection at the antenna had some corrosion and this was blocking the preamp from getting power. I lost ch 4 as well recently. I took the preamp out of the system and now get signal from ch 4 (ABC) and the above ch 8. I also see a slight signal for ch 7 (CBS) and ch 42 (PBS). Hopefully, once the antenna is above roofline, the receiver (HR10-250) will be able to lock on. I'll be trying with the CM3016 and if I need to, switch to something else.

Yes, Fox 40 HD OTA is quite nice. However, the FOX 40 logo on HD has to be turned down, it is ridiculously bright and annoying. (I sent an email to them about it, we'll see what happens).

I hate the sizes of LOGO'S do you know they look huge on a 70" Sony.
funny some of the HD channel turn them off during the shows
HBOHD SHOHD HDMOV DCSHD and others
I wish all the channels would reduce or turn them off during programming.
It's distracting

Okay, now that we had some good weather I decided to move the tripod mount to the roof. From my previous post youi can see that with the tripod sitting on my deck I was getting some good signals for ch 4 (mid 60's) and ch 8 (low to mid 50's), with blips for 7 and 42. The first attached photo is pointing in the direction it was located. The second photo shows it located on the roof pointing in the same general direction. However, I no longer get a good signal for ch 8, ch 4 is still quite good (saw a peak at 70). Since it is now on the roof, it isn't as convenient to adjust. I used my two cordless handsets in intercom mode to listen to the tones from the HR10-250. This worked quite well, but the tones didn't change an awful lot.

My question is why would I lose signal when the antenna is now higher and not pointing through trees? How could I get more multipath now? I'm only a little over 9 miles from the towers on the other side of that hill.

hehe, you shouldnt complain about the logo:p in chicago, they changed it to FOXCHICAGO

the fox40 logo looks pretty small actually.
almost the same size as the regular FOX logo

FOX40
http://www.rcsnetwork.com/images/0208-210831.jpg

FOX (not 40)
http://www.rcsnetwork.com/images/1114-234357.jpg

At least with a 16:9 display the logo is further in the corner. :)

hehe, you shouldnt complain about the logo:p in chicago, they changed it to FOXCHICAGO

the fox40 logo looks pretty small actually.
almost the same size as the regular FOX logo

FOX40
http://www.rcsnetwork.com/images/0208-210831.jpg

FOX (not 40)
http://www.rcsnetwork.com/images/1114-234357.jpg

Its not the size that matters ;)

THE HD LOGO IS TOO BRIGHT, AND MOSTLY NON-SEE THROUGH. My eyes (and plasma) really don't appreciate the abuse...

Its not the size that matters ;)

THE HD LOGO IS TOO BRIGHT, AND MOSTLY NON-SEE THROUGH. My eyes (and plasma) really don't appreciate the abuse...
hmm, weird, it really doesnt look too bright to me.
it should be see thru though.

I'm just watching on my computer screen (Dell 2005FPW 20" LCD)
could your contrast be too high?

Here's one of what they do in chicago.
http://www.rcsnetwork.com/images/c3.jpg

For a couple weeks they just had FOXCHICAGO in the same font as the regular "FOX" logo. That really sucked.

Did you really need the preamp? How far are you from the Towers. When you say "trying to find the best spot on the roof", exactly what were you looking for? Asthetics?

Where did you buy the antenna? Locally or online?
I may not need the preamp since it won't be split for multiple TVs and will only be used for digital.

I replied to this in the other forum, so I won't repeat it here.
But thanks for the info there. For those that need to know which forum.
Go here. http://www.rochesterhdtv.com/viewtopic.php?t=60&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150

Was curious if anyone had any problems watching Invasion Wednesday night on ABC? I have TWC with the SA-8300HD and recorded it and there was a huge amount of breakup with audio squeals and picture corruption. Got really annoying. I also noticed quite a bit during Monday's episode of 24. Was quite a bit during the last half of the Survivor episode from Wednesday as well.

I'm not sure if I'm having a problem with the cable or the DVR or if it was just bad transmission. I am starting to think I should give the cable company a call, but I always seem to get the run-around from the techs when the show up at the house, so I'm hesitant to call before I rule out other possibilties.

I have checked the signal levels at my house via the 8300's diagnostic screens and they look ok, so unless the signal is dropping out due to something outside on the lines I'm not sure what the problem could be.

Thanks - Al


I'm getting the same BS crap it's driving me nuts, for weeks now

A month or so back there was a rumor posted that WBNG would be broadcasting HDTV by the middle of April. Anyone heard anything more on this, is it only a rumor?

Rumors are only rumors until they are proven one way or the other.
The middle of April is here now, but, don't hold your breath.

I'm asking all members here from the Greater Binghamton Area to send an email to WBNG asking when HD will be available.

wbng@wbngtv.com

There are reports that WBNG will be adding a DTV subchannel for a CW Network feed:

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/cgi/pr.cgi?id=20060424cw02

Now that's interesting. So that would mean that the subchannel that is UPN on our Fox affiliate will become an independent. I guess that means that The WB has more of a say than UPN for which one gets CW in an area. Currently our WB is cable only and UPN is low power.

Well here is the response I recieved from WBNG after inquiring about HDTV availability.
At this point there are no plans to go HD here.
As much as I would like to do it our present owners do not want
to because there is no FCC regulation that says we have to.
Hopefully they will realize that every channel in our market is HD and we will need to
do it for that reason. I also hope when and if the new owners come into play they will
want to do HDTV

Chief Engineer
WBNG TV
Michael Calkins

I have received exactly the same response late last night.

Add me to that list. Same response. In fact, it was in the form of a Word document. So they send out a standard responses now. What a sad state for this TV station in the Greater Binghamton Area.

I would say it is time to send snail mail to the ownership.

I send a second email asking about the CW on a subchannel mentioned in the link to thefutoncritic above.

I got the same Word document too. It was just a canned response. WBNG should be embarrassed that they're the last major network to go to HD in the Binghamton area, and it's unbelievable they don't even have a plan to get there any time soon. For shame.

From the FCC website I got this address for the owners of WBNG.

TELEVISION STATION GROUP LICENSE SUBSIDIARY, LLC
1215 COLE STREET
ST. LOUIS, MO 63106

It's time to send letters to them and complain.

I plan to do that and mention that if they don't go HD by the start of the fall season that I'll send a complaint to the FCC. Although there isn't any regulations that say stations have to go HD, I think there should be a timeframe.

I guess we need to wait and see what the new owners will be doing.

Okay, I found this on the Granite Broadcasting site.
http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=GBTVK&script=412&layout=-6&item_id=803958
Supposed to be completed during the second quarter of 2006. Only time will tell.

You guys in Binghamton area are still in a much better position than we here in Elmira/Corning area. With TWC, we only get "HD" NBC (in quotes since the PQ is terrible). We do not get HD ABC, HD CBS or HD FOX.

I guess we need to wait and see what the new owners will be doing.

Okay, I found this on the Granite Broadcasting site.
http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=GBTVK&script=412&layout=-6&item_id=803958
Supposed to be completed during the second quarter of 2006. Only time will tell.

Ah, I thought the Granite Broadcasting acquistion was a done deal. I'd say that
there is no way we'll see WBNG go HD until after the transition to Granite is done.

I hope Granite moves quickly to HD once they take over.

But, again I won't hold my breath.

I'll be holding back on the complaint letter for now.

You guys in Binghamton area are still in a much better position than we here in Elmira/Corning area. With TWC, we only get "HD" NBC (in quotes since the PQ is terrible). We do not get HD ABC, HD CBS or HD FOX.

I thought that the Elmira ABC channel went HD right around the time of the SuperBowl. Atleast thats what I remember from a coworker of mine who lives in Horseheads. I think they had some problems with the equipment during installation and may have 'borrowed' the Binghamton ABC channels broadcast for the SuperBowl itself, but I thought he told me its been live since sometime in Feb.

I found this on a Wikipedia site - don't know how reliable it is but:

156 Binghamton, New York WBNG 12 (7) CBS 2006 Sale pending from Montecito Broadcast Group, LLC‡ (Controls cable-only WB "WBXI")

Granite's purchase of WBNG is contingent on Granite's sale of KBWB and WDWB, with the aforementioned change in the sale of those stations Granite's takeover of the station may be delayed (if it ever does take place).

We got HD ABC for about 2 days for Superbowl, on channel 703. Then it disappeared.

What a waste of time: my exchange with cust. rep from TWC:

My initial message to TWC Binghamton:

"Subject: HD level of service

Dear Sir,

I am your customer in Corning, NY. I subscribe to HD tier.

Please let me know if I should expect that you will add HD-level service for ABC network in time for the World Cup in early June (either through the addition of HD service from my local affiliate or through providing service from the Binghamton ABC affiliate, same way as you did for Superbowl in January). I am also interested if ESPN-2 HD service will be available.

I am deciding if I need to switch service providers, since I am hugely disappointed in the provision of HD services by TWC. Right now, among the networks, I only get HD-NBC (no HD ABC, HD CBS, or HD Fox). This is ridiculous, and I think this must be one of the least-served HD areas in the U.S.A. Even on HD NBC the picture quality tends to be very bad with severe macroblocking (most likely due to your overcompression?).

I have been your customer since 1989, and HD user since 2003. I have been waiting for your HD services to improve for several years now.
However, I find myself at the point where I need to decide if I should wait any longer.

I look forward to your reply.

Thank you."

Answer from TWC:

"Thank you for writing Time Warner Cable. I am glad to hear that you are enjoying your Time Warner Cable services, including our High Definition Line-up.

Adding network HD channels (ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX) is largely out of our hands. Before we can offer network HD programming, the local network affiliates must offer it. At the national level, HD feeds for all the major networks are available. At a local level, Time Warner Cable must deal with the local affiliates which may or may not - in many cases "not" - have HD programming available. We also sometimes have technical issues to overcome, such as with the channels that broadcast their signal out of Utica.

As a company, we like being able to offer our customers the newest technologies. HD is a great example of a product that excites and interests our customer. We share that excitement and look forward to offering new HD channels. While I can not comment on ongoing negotiations, please know that we are committed to bringing our customers new channels with HDTV programming.

If you have any additional questions, comments or concerns, please feel free to contact our office at your convenience. We can be reached by phone at 1-800-955-0750 from 7AM until 11PM daily, or by E-mail at "contact@twcstny.com". If you prefer, please respond with your telephone number and the best time to call, and we will be happy to contact you.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to write us and thank you for being our customer.

Sincerely,

Time Warner Cable
Rebecca McCulskey
Customer Service"

My reply:

"Subject: RE: HD level of service

You just sent me a standard form letter. I do not appreciate that. The second sentence in your form letter is incorrect, as I just informed you that I do not enjoy your HD services.

I had a very specific question: will HD ABC be available for World Cup.
You have the ability to provide HD ABC in my area, since you did it for Superbowl. Please answer my specific question. "

Rebecca writes back:

"Greetings-

Once again, thank you for writing Time Warner Cable. As I have already stated, we do not have control over what is broadcast in HD in the Binghamton Division. However, if the World Cup is broadcast on your local ABC channel, it will be available on the corresponding HD Channel.
Also, it is believed that most of the World Cup coverage will be seen on ESPN-2, which we do not currently offer in HD, therefore what is viewable on ESPN-2 will not be viewable in High Definition.

I hope this once again answers your questions, if you do have any more concerns please let us know.

Sincerely,

Time Warner Cable
Rebecca McCulskey
Customer Service"

Still dissatisfied, my last attempt:

"Dear Rebecca,

I thought my question was very straightforward, but your answer is anything but clear. Let me try again:

Will I be able to watch ABC's portion of World Cup events in HD?

I think your answers should fall into one of the following 3 buckets:

1. "Yes, we will provide Corning customers with HD feed on channel 703, WIVT HD, same way as we did for Superbowl"

2. "Yes, by early June we will have the HD feed from WENY, Corning's ABC affiliate, on channel 7xx"

or

3. "No, there will be no HD ABC for our Corning customers"

Which one is it?

Thank you,"

And final reply:

"Once again, thank you for writing Time Warner Cable. Unfortunately, as I have stated previously, we are not aware of any changes in our channel lineup, nor do we know at this current time where or how every game in the World Cup will be broadcast. When we do have more information available, I can let you know, but until then, I do not have any more information about the broadcast of this years tournement.

Thank you,

Rebecca "


At least she was prompt with her answers (the whole exchange took about 3 hours) but not much substance.

I am switching. Need to decide between D* and E*. Being in Corning I qualify for DNS.

This is the antenna system at my home outside of syracuse.

winegard hd8200p antenna
wade fm-9 fm antenna
winegard hdp269 preamp
rotor

Rick, do you have a separate coax from your FM antenna into the house? Or are you combining the signals from the hd8200p and the wade fm-9 into one coax?

Thanks...

DirecTV does have ESPN2-HD is that matters. And, you may be able to get the DNS HD feeds from NY.

I am deciding if I need to switch service providers, since I am hugely disappointed in the provision of HD services by TWC. Right now, among the networks, I only get HD-NBC (no HD ABC, HD CBS, or HD Fox)
That's odd. I was in Noah's Ark on Market St. today and I was playing around with the remote because I wanted to see what was available in the HD tier and I saw WBNG-DT(CBS) in the guide. I didn't switch over to the channel, but it did appear in the guide. You also get WSKG(PBS) in HD and I don't believe that's available on either of the sat. services. Dish subs correct me if I'm wrong, but I know you won't get it on D*.

I called WENY(ABC) back in January to see about the SB and was told if I was a TWC sub, I'd get it, but if I was doing OTA, I was SOL. I'm in the latter category. The engineer lead me to believe that they would be doing HD OTA in the summer. I called last month to see how it's going and was told they're building new facilities in Corning within a few months, so the timeline I was given goes down the drain. WETM(NBC) has been doing HD for years and WENY is running second, a position I guess they're used to. NFL Football is long gone and they were never able to do HD.

I do have waivers for FOX and CBS from D* and, because I am an NFL fan, those were a priority for me. Now that NBC has Sun. night games, I'd like to get the digital feed, but I can't seem to pull it down with the powered indoor antenna I've been using up until now. I'm really hesitant to go through the procedure of installing an outdoor antenna for one station.

People make the assumption that cable always offers more HD because it's true for their situation. As KieliM demonstrates, it's not always true.

It is my understanding that TWC (Binghamton) is carrying the WBNG digital feed. But, there isn't any HD content. I could be wrong in that they might be able to feed the CBS HD directly to TWC. They don't have OTA HD.

Well, Jim, if that's true for Binghamton TWC, then it must true for Elmira/Corning TWC. Like I said, I didn't check it out because it was the middle of the afternoon and, as far as I know, they're not doing soap operas in HD yet. Thanks for correcting me because getting info from the cable cos is like pulling teeth.

I stopped into the local Dish/D* retailer last week and the owner mentioned that the local NBC station is pushing, in their words, "to get up on the birds". That was encouraging to me, but now that I see what you mentioned about WBNG, I'm not sure if I want local coverage all that much, unless I'm allowed to keep the NY CBS-HD. From what I'm seeing on these boards about folks getting local HD coverage from D* and losing distants, that's not likely.

I'd take what the retailer said with about a pound of salt. Because the Binghamton DMA is 156 and I think Elmira is 173, so it will be a while before we see our stations on satellite. In my case, I will stick with my waivers and use OTA for as long as I can. From what I've read, you lose the DNS is you opt in on locals.

I just thought it was interesting that at least one local channel was open to coverage on satellite. The retail person had nothing to sell me, I'm already a D* sub with HD equipment. I heard her on the phone with a prospective D* customer and she didn't overstate anything about the service, was very realistic that CBS could be the only network the person might qualify for, so I think she's someone who doesn't just speak to hear herself talk.

We both know that it would be more of a competitive thing for D* or E* to pick up our markets, rather than revenue generating strategy. It's more of picking up folks whose only issue in switching to satellite is losing locals or having to put up an outdoor antenna. The numbers aren't there like the are for the top 10 markets.

WBNG-DT(CBS) does not have any HD, as provided by TWC in Corning. As a matter of fact, even the SD PQ is very bad, much worse than many other SD channels. The analog CBS feed on channel 12 is often better.

The only network HD is on NBC, and it must be incredibly overcompressed by TWC, since there is a major problem with macroblocking. Any movement (especially in close-ups) makes picture unwatchable. Interestingly, SD commercials and SD programing look much better.

I contacted TWC-Corning about this PQ problem several times, but gave up, since nobody there even understood what I was talking about.

Makes me wonder how many HD customers Elmira/Corning TWC is even serving at this point. Is OTA not even an option for you, KieliM?

No, it is not. I think I could get the NBC OTA, but I do not have an OTA tuner, and it does not make sense to get one for such a limited choice.

OTOH, I seem to qualify for DNS, with both D* and E*, for all networks.

I just thought I'd post an update on my OTA experience.

I decided to wait for the trees to leaf out before adjusting my antenna. (Still haven't done anything more from a month ago).

I just did a signal test with my HR10-250 receiver (it's a DirecTV HD DVR with ATSC tuners). I now get the following strengths: 84 on ch 4 (ABC), fluctuating from 0 to 20 on ch 7 (CBS), 63 on ch 8 (Fox), and 67 on ch 42 (PBS). So either 42 upped their signal or the leaves are bending the signal a bit. :):)