Is anyone receiving HDTV over the air via antenna in Endicott, Binghamton area? I already have a HD box from Time Warner Cable but I want more. If you are receiving more than the cable company is giving you, please let me know everything associated with how you did this, what antenna you bought and where in or on your house you placed the antenna. I live on the North side of Endicott and have a 3 story. Any help greatly appreciated.

I also did the Map thing based on my location..and it showed:

* yellow WIVT-DT 4 ABC Binghamton NY May 1 2003 135°
* yellow WBNG-DT 7 CBS Binghamton NY Now Live 138°
* yellow WICZ-DT 8 FOX Binghamton NY Jul 7 2003 137°
* yellow WSKG-DT 42 PBS Binghamton NY Aug 1 2003 137°
green WBNG 12 CBS Binghamton NY 138°
green WIVT 34 ABC Binghamton NY 135°
green WICZ 40 FOX Binghamton NY 137°
green WSKG 46 PBS Binghamton NY 137°
blue WBGH-CA 8 NBC Binghamton NY 134°
blue W26BS 26 TBN Binghamton NY 137°


The problem is I am getting too much conflicting information and I want to find someone who is actually receiving HD OTA in my area.

No one?

Im still looking for someone who is getting Hi def OTA in this area.

Lisa, the only way to get HD in this technologically lowscale area is with the satellites. I think echo star is going to be pretty good once the super dish is launched later this year. So far I have Discovery HD Theater and CBS HD through a waiver from WBNG, with Echo Star DISH. HDNET is coming and Dish has HBO AND SHOWTIME HD as well.

Hi neighbor..Ken! Sorry I did not see this sooner..what do you mean you have a waiver through WBNG? I want a waiver too! Do you know the costs associated with the super dish?

I too would like to know how klees4155 got a waiver for CBS. My zip code in Chenango Bridge only gave me waivers for ABC, NBC, Fox, and PBS with DirecTV.

But, back on topic a bit, which is OTA HD for Binghamton area. I just purchased a very large antenna from Radio Shack to see what OTA is available. My HD receiver, which is a Hughes HTL-HD (is also a DirecTV receiver), found three digital channels. WBNG (CBS), WIVT(ABC), and WSKG (PBS). The pictures came in clear but were obviously not Hi Def. Titan TV website lists some ABC shows as being HD, I'll find out in about 15 minutes to see if WIVT passes it on.

I have sent another email to WBNG asking if they will be passing the Superbowl through in HD 16:9. I hope so.

Reading through the Rochester HD thread I'm not very encouraged.

Looking at Titan TV web site again I noticed that our TWC only has two channels in HD; INHD and INHD2.

By the way, the analog channels come in very bad in my area. I may get them a bit better when I permanently install the antenna.

But, with waivers for ABC, NBC and Fox and now a good picture from WBNG I will probably drop TWC now.

From DirecTV I get, ESPN HD, Discovery HD, HD Net, HD Net Movies, HBO HD, and Showtime HD. There is also an HD PPV channel.

Update:
Played with antenna aiming and found a spot where I picked up 40-1 and 40-2. These are our Fox 40 channel and UPN.

Nice to see another Greater Binghamtonian on the forum. I've been away for a couple of weeks, so I noticed that you are receiving WSKG, digitally. I know they were under construction when I left, so they must be digitally live now. Are they transmitting HDTV?

I didn't want to invest in a HD receiver, so I am at the mercy of TWC.

Based on correspondence with WBNG, their engineer said that they were planning on being DTV for the foreseeable future and would transmit HDTV only when they were prepared to spendhe money to complete the conversion. What I can't figure out is do they start with analog and up-convert it to 480p or do they start with 1080i and down-convert to 480p. Either way, I doubt we will be seeing the Super Bowl in HD unless we can get it somewhere else.

For WIVT-DT, TWC and Clearchannels have been in negotiation for some time and neither company is forthcoming as to when they will solve whatever it is that is keeping them apart, but it usually has something to do with $$$$.

TWC should be adding HDNet shortly if it's not already providing it. There are comments in AVS Forum that TWC is providing HDNet in Syracuse and other cities around the country.

BTW, do you know what your altitude is? I'm around 1400 ft and with a good antenna and receiver, I might be able to get a shot at Syracuse & Scranton.

It doesn't look like WSKG is broadcasting any HD content. But, then I've only been looking for less than a day now. It does look like WIVT is at least passing through ABC programs in HD. The Fox 40 and UPN are just SD repeats of their analog signals. Still better than analog. The WBNG picture is pretty good, better than I can get using analog. I'm not up on what conversions are needed. Is there a reason why WBNG can't just pass on the CBS network feed since they do have a digital signal? Like, for the Super Bowl?

I'm actually in Chenango Bridge, so my altitude is about the same as downtown Binghamton. I have my antenna temporarily mounted on my deck railing. I'll be playing it with it to see if I can get anything from Scranton or Syracuse.

BTW, HDNet is awesome. I've seen a couple of Hockey and Basketball games in HD as well. It's like being there.

Update:
I was playing with different directions today to see if I could possibly pick up Syracuse or Scranton. Well no luck. The antenna, Radio Shack VU-190XR, is close to the ground and is not amplified.

My receiver, Hughes HTL-HD, doesn't have a signal strength meter, so I assume the best way for me the aim the antenna is to pick on an analog channel and tweak the best picture with it.

Have you tried this link: http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.asp

Best of luck

Yes, I used that site. Thanks.

I just want to tweak it for out of area stations, such as Syracuse or Scranton.

Don't bother trying to get Scranton, they are not passing HD either, as I have now found thru this thread WBNG isn't as well.

And to think I spent the whole day yesterday raising my antenna another 10 ft to try and get it!

Try searching for the NEPA thread if you would like to hear of our woes!

See ya!

Chezbrgr2:
Thanks for the info. I just read the last two pages of the NEPA thread. Very bad for you all down there. Not that good here either. I'm waiting for a response from WBNG on my latest email. I guess I won't be wasting my time with Scranton's CBS station.

I'll focus on Syracuse. Nope, they are having problems there too. Looks like I'll focus on our local yokels.

Edit: On PQ. The ABC affiliate WIVT 34-1 showed The Sound of Music last night. There was a bit of pixelation and breakup, I didn't watch the whole thing, just now and then to see how it was coming in. Tweaked the antenna a bit with no change. Then sometime during the end of the movie I noticed that the picture was now in SD. I suppose they had a timer on the transmission.

Anyone else see this happen?

And, let's get an email and letter writing campaign going so that WBNG will broadcast the Superbowl in HD.

For what it's worth, I watched SOM on WXYZ/Comcast-Detroit last night. Didn't notice any pixelation but around 9:00(?) the 5.1 audio started to break up and continued for 10 to 15 minutes then all was fine. Tried other HD stations and had no audio problems. If the same thing happened to you then it must have been a network problem.

Please let us know when you hear back from WBNG about their HD plans.

Other threads indicate that the the Syracuse CBS station's digital transmitter is currently under construction.

Sorry, but on the previous post, I was logged in on my son's account DAWGDAES.

I intend to add to this thread as much as I can.

I'd like to know how many Greater Binghamtonian members there are here.
And, I don't mean to the leave out the Endicott, Endwell, Johnson City, etc members.

All of you please email WBNG about the SuperBowl and how you want it in HD. And, anyone else close enough to receive their digital signal too!

Using the Native format mode of my HTL-HD receiver I have discovered the following:

These local channels WBNG (12-1 CBS), WICZ (40-1 Fox), WBPN (40-2 UPN), and WSKG (42-2 PBS) are broadcasting in 480i format. WIVT (34-1 ABC), is in 720p, but it's aspect ratio is 4:3. I have set the receiver to upconvert the 720p to 1080i, the native format of my Mits HDTV. Also, the Alamo Bowl tonight on ESPNHD is also in 720p with a 4:3 aspect ratio. Is it normal for some 720p broadcasts to be in 4:3 aspect ratio?

Your note really surprised me because I thought that digital stations do not transmit 480i, at a minimum, 480p is what I would have expected for for all the local OTA digital stations except WIVT which you stated was 720p.

Does your receiver have the ability to force the output mode? Can you set it to pass on whatever is transmitted and tell you what that is? Can your TV display what it is receiving?

My TV set tells me what type of signal it is receiving. For example it displays "480p" when I use my DVD player and "1080i" when I'm receiving an HD signal.

Is your television a 4:3 or 16:9?

I am watching the game on ESPNHD with a 4:3 SONY over COMCAST Cable. The game is not HD even though ESPNHD is HD. So the picture is in 16:9 format (black bars top and bottom) but the picture is compressed and stretched so the players are sort of short and fat. That is what we get on all ESPNHD programs unless it is and actual HD program. On HD programs, the picture is fantastically good and everything looks right sized.

On WIVT, I would think that HD programs would be in wide screen and non-hd programs would have left and right black bars in addition to bars on the top and bottom (on a 4:3 TV set.)

Have you had any luck with WBNG?

No, 480p is more expensive than 480i. 480i is basically analog TV without the snow. It's what most non-HD subchannels are, because they use a small amount of bandwidth compared to HD. A 480i broadcast can work with only 3 mbps (out of the 19.39 mbps in the digital signal itself) while 720p needs about 12-16 and 1080i needs 14-18. You can fit 6 SD subchannels in the same space as one 1080i HD feed!

If WSKG is showing up as 42-2, then it's likely not only in 480i, but there are probably some big time errors in their signal. Our PBS showed up on most tuners as 3-2 for almost 6 months, and during that time I was probably the only person who could get audio on it (until I stopped using my computer card and got the Zenith in September). I can't blame them; they were rushed into going on the air and didn't have the money to buy all the equipment they needed until September. They now have two streams: 15-1 is 480i rebroadcasting the main signal and 15-5 is 1080i direct off the satellite. Try and get WSKG to do that; that is so nice to have.

- Trip

I suspect that my stations are still in their testing stage. That's why most are in 480i.

I set my HD receiver, HTL-HD, to Native format where it just passes through whatever it receives. The front panel LED display shows the format, which is how I discovered what station is what. My TV is a Mitsubishi WS48311 16:9. With the receiver in native pass through the TV reports 480i, 480p or 1080i, 720p isn't supported. So I see 480i when I pass through the OTA channels, except WIVT (get blue screen on that one). For normal viewing I am forcing the HD receiver to display everything in 1080i.

Your description of the ESPN game indicates to me that the aspect ratio of the game was 4:3 since you said the players are short and fat. That's just the way they looked for me as well with the16:9 full screen. Everything looked normal when I put the receiver into Shrink mode.

Here's another interest factoid. When I view DirecTV 4:3 content on my TV the side bars are grey. When I view my OTA channels, the side bars are black. I assume that the HD rcvr is doing that. However, with WIVT, I get grey bars again. So the station is presenting those, indicating a 16:9 format.

I get confused with all of these aspect ratio/format combinations. :)

And, no response from WBNG to my email. :(

Jim

Thanks for the update on 480i. I've added it to my personal knowledge base. Since my TWC cable box up-converts everything to 1080i, the only thing I watch directly off the box is HD material only. Which is OK since I watch everything else off my TIVO through S-video.

I'm hoping that TWC will make the Pace box available someday. That box will at least pass everything through in its native format and should make watching cable a little easier. Won't do much for the TIVO, though.

I have been away for several weeks. Has anything new been added to the cable? When I left, they had just added INHD.

I only have basic/superstation cable. But, the Titan TV website only list INHD and INHD2 for HD content on TWC. I get my TV via DirecTV and have two DirecTV DVRs. I plan to keep TWC for at least thru the Superbowl, maybe sooner if WBNG comes through with their HD before that. With the digital versions of our locals I have no need for TWC anymore.

Just a quick update:
WIVT channel 34-1 (ABC) is looking pretty good right now with Dick Clark's Rocking Eve. Still waiting for response to email to WBNG. But, it's a Holiday, I'll give them to Monday. :)

Will other Binghamton area members please check in and report their PQ. I'm having occasional audio dropouts with WIVT (34-1).

Gee, I guess there aren't very many in this area with HD receivers. Must be because only one channel is actually broadcasting HD content, while the others are just broadcasting SD digitally. And, local sales droids don't know what stations are broadcasting a digital signal, even if in SD.

BTW, the ABC broadcast of the Sugar Bowl looked great!

Okay, I'll try this again just to get this thread on the first page for a little while.

Any other Binghamtonians out there?

How about some close neighbors that may be getting Binghamton digital stations?

Well, I just got back from being away for four weeks. Turned on my TW program guide to look for any changes to the HD channel list and surprise, surprise, no changes!!!!

No WIVT-DT, no HDNET, no WBNG-DT in HD, no ESPNHD.

I think we live in a place where there is a confluence of TV stations dragging their feet, a cable company that doesn't care, and retailers that don't have a clue.

Perhaps this will all be worked out by 2006. It's just a shame that many of us have made large personal investments in time and money with little to show for our effort.

Anyway, I called TW and the CSR told me that HDNET will be on the cable Jan 31, never heard about WIVT-DT ("Don't you mean WBNG-HD?) and the only HD cable box TWC provides is the SA-3100HD. There are better boxes out there and TWC could provide them, if only. . . . . . . .

Welcome back,
I don't have cable, except for 2-13 for locals which will go away next month. With the okay reception of the digital versions of our locals I don't need TWC anymore. Only keeping it until after the Super Bowl in case WBNG-DT doesn't come thru with the Super Bowl in HD. Which is in real doubt. And, WIVT (34-1) is passing through ABC feeds, at least OTA. If the weather warms a bit in the next week or so, I'm going to raise my antenna and see if I can get Syracuse's CBS station.

Have you emailed WBNG about when they plan to deliver HD?

Time to bring this thread to the first page again.

It's cold outside, so where are the Binghamton area members?
Especially, the original thread author?

I light of this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=347953), I ask all Binghamton area viewers with DirecTV to email WBNG@wbngtv.com and ask that for the good of public relations they grant a waiver so that we can get the CBS-HD feed, unless they get their HD feed going. :p

Interesting notes. I haven't heard anything from WBNG yet. :(

Unfortunately, TWC isn't going to help me. I use DirecTV, so if WBNG can't get up in time for the Super Bowl, I'm hoping that I can at least get a waiver in the meantime.

[holding breath]
Whew!
[/holding breath]

I received the following letter from the general manager at WBNG today.

----------------
Station WBNG-TV hereby states that at present it does not object to your reception of satellite-delivered CBS programming at the address listed above. This statement of non-objection applies to satellite service to you at the address listed above.

(Because station coverage areas sometimes overlap, there may be another CBS station that delivers an over-the-air signal to your household. Our statement of non-objection does not waive any rights that any other station may have to object to your reception of satellite-delivered CBS programming. Your satellite carrier can tell you whether other stations have rights with respect to satellite delivery of CBS programming to your home.)

Nothing in this letter constitutes an acknowledgment that delivery of CBS programming to your home is lawful under the Copyright Act. Station WBNG-TV reserves the right to withdraw this statement on non-objection at any time in its own discretion.

Joseph P. McNamara
General Manager

----------------------

Now I need to call DirecTV to see if they will accept this letter from instead of the station.

I'll post the results from that phone call.

Well, I just made a fool of myself with DirecTV. I called about getting CBS activated and the CSR told me that it had been added yesterday. So DirecTV must have gotten a letter from WBNG before I did. I should have thought about tuning in or checking on the website. Oh well, now we just need CBS-HD to become active. Let's hope there aren't any roadblocks for that.

Nice work and best of luck.

Based on your understanding of the waiver, does it apply to only you or can other satellite subscribers in our area take of advantage of the waiver?

The way the letter was worded, I'd have to say that it was only directed for me. They mentioned it several times in the letter, "at the address listed above" twice and "delivery of CBS programming to your home" twice.
I would call DirecTV and ask if a waiver has been put into place for the whole region. I kind of doubt it, however. But, there's no harm in trying. Just leave my name out of it. :)

You mention TWC in your posts, so I can only assume that TWC is your primary source. Getting DirecTV and the waiver set up in 17-18 days could be a bit difficult. ;)

I received the following email from the chief engineer at WBNG. :(

----------
At this point we are broadcasting in only DTV Digital Channel 7
WBNG has no firm plans to go to HDTV in 2004.
I have seen the HDTV signal that CBS sends us and it is
Incredible but corporate and the powers to be have not
Given any possible dates to go to HDTV yet.

Regards
Michael Calkins
Chief Engineer WBNG TV 12
----------

Now I know why they decided to give me the waiver. I guess they feel that this area doesn't have enough potential HD viewers to make the cost worthwhile. So they just went with the minimum requirements to be broadcasting in DTV.

I also got the same letter from Calkins today.

Gosh, I would love to get my hands on an HDTV receiver and an amplified antenna. I live on top of a hill at about 1400 ft ASL which is also about the same altitude as the foot of the Syracuse antennas on Sentinel Heights in Nedrow. My distance to the antenna farm is 62 miles and the antenna height is 900 ft. According to some calculators I found, the line of sight to my altitude is around 36 miles. I would test it, but I don't want to spend $300 to $700 or more to do the experiment and there is no guarantee the WTVH-DT will be up by the end of the month.

So now I'm sitting here with an antenna which is really only good for WIVT (ABC). :) The only local that is broadcasting any HD content.

I have about 10 days to determine if I'll return it to Radio Shack.

I have decided to exchange my large Radio Shack antenna for a smaller one. I don't need the extreme fringe version, as I don't plan to try for Syracuse now that the waiver has been granted.

Also, I emailed WBNG again asking if they plan to use a sub-channel for WBXI since they aren't going to need all of their bandwidth for HD in the near future. As Binghamtonians know, WBXI is our cable-only WB station which WBNG has started up with TWC. But, that's probably a good reason why they won't put it on a sub-channel.:(

Even if they were doing HD they could still do WBXI on a 480i subchannel without hurting the primary signal too much. But if they decided to do a weather subchannel in addition I'd try and get them to shut off the WBXI if I were y'all because it'd damage the HD too much.

- Trip

Well, since WBNG isn't planning HD any time soon according to the email I got from the chief engineer I can only hope they do provide WBXI in any form.

Anyway, I took the too large antenna back to Radio Shack as I now have no reason for the ultra fringe trying for Syracuse. I then picked up a much smaller Channel Master to see how it would work. Well, with it I still get digital channels 4, 7, and 8. I lost 42 which is my PBS affiliate, no real loss there. And for those of you who are upset about that statement, I still get the national PBS feed from DirecTV.

Next step after the Super Bowl, is to dump TWC altogether. :)

Originally posted by jdspencer
digital channels 4, 7, and 8. I lost 42 which is my PBS affiliate, no real loss there. And for those of you who are upset about that statement, I still get the national PBS feed from DirecTV.

PBS National is in HD on satellite? I didn't know that.

Besides, what do you mean, 'No big loss'? Eventually, PBS will be one of your best sources of HD material, if they choose to do HD material.

- Trip

No, I didn't mean to infer that PBS is in HD. Just that I can get it from DirecTV so the local one isn't all that important now. I'll cross the PBS HD bridge when they build it. :) And, if they choose is a very important point.

I received a postcard today from DirecTV that verified that I now have waivers for all of the major networks. Just waiting for CBS-HD now.:D

Did you request a waiver for each network or did they just give it to you?

Previously I had asked a CSR at DirecTV what waivers were in place. She said that I could get ABC, NBC, and Fox at that time. So I got them then. Then I got a letter from DirecTV which indicated which waivers were granted and that CBS had denied it. This time my emails to WBNG must have prompted WBNG to send a letter to DirecTV in favor of granting a waiver. Today I received a postcard from DirecTV indicating all four waivers. So to answer your question, I'm not real sure of what sequence happened this time. The normal way is to call DirecTV and have them request a waiver of the locals and then wait up to 45 days for an answer. This time it was different. Probably because I was making a pest of myself with all of the emails asking about HD. My first email to WBNG was 12/11, the last 1/16. Then a couple days after that last one, I got a letter from WBNG stating that they had granted my waiver. I called DirecTV to activate CBS and that's when I found out that DirecTV had already done that the day before. Then today the postcard.

Okay, it's time for the other two Binghamtonians to check in here. :D

And, are there any others? Probably not, since our HD selection is just one station.

What's your HD status? What provider are you using?

abramsky:

That's an interesting exchange that you had with TWC. I don't see anything in TWC's HD lineup that would prompt me to go back with them. Other than the basic 2-13 that I get from them for the locals. And, that will be going away next month. I'm currently watching the Bob Hope Golf Classic on ABC (WIVTDT) which from ABC is 720p, I suspect that it is really an upconversion from 480i and is in 4:3 aspect ratio. The picture is really good, better than ABC on TWC.

You may want to consider going with DirecTV. Although it would probably depend on whether you can get waivers from the networks to get the Distant Network feeds.

Hi folks, feel free to stop by www.rochesterhdtv.com for upstate ny hdtv related stuff.

Yeah, I read the interview, what there was of it, with the chief engineer at WROC. I wonder how he sleeps at night spouting the corporate line like that. And, stating that they don't grant waivers because DirecTV will be providing locals later doesn't address the lack of HD. As I've stated above, our local did grant me a waiver to receive CBS from DirecTV, SD and HD. They previously declined, but relented after I pestered them enough about not getting HD in place in time for the Super Bowl.

Not really related to HDTV from Binghamton stations, but I will be watching the Super Bowl this Sunday via DirecTV. As you know from my previous posts, I got the waiver from WBNG and today DirecTV turned on their CBS HD feeds. I get both coasts.

Well, to all of the Binghamtonians who have been here. How was the Super Bowl for you? It was just fine for me on DirecTV. Many thanks to WBNG for doing the right thing by me and granting a waiver. I hope that they can get it together and get their HD feed running.

What HD does Binghamton TWC now have?

Glad to hear of your success with CBS and D*.

My source at TWC tells me that WIVT will be able to provide an ABC HD signal to TWC and will also provide a cable only NBC HD feed to TWC. They think WBNG will be live in HD in about 6 months. We'll just have to wait and see.

Other HD programming on TWC includes HBO-HD, Showtime-HD, Discovery-HD, INHD, INHD2, HDNET & HDNET-Movies.

Too bad about the cable only NBC HD feed. But, then that's all we have now is a cable only NBC feed. And, that is really just WETM from Elmira with WIVT news.

With DirecTV I don't get the INHD feeds. My understanding is that those are cable only feeds. The others you mentioned I get with DirecTV.

I won't hold my breath too long waiting for WBNG HD.

I'm wondering what OTA antenna people are using here in the Greater Binghamton area to receive our local digital stations? And whether you are also receiving any out of town DTV signals?

And, to jonw, maybe you could add Binghamton to your website. Or are we too backward at the moment. :D

For the Binghamtonians and other upstate members as well.
Please vist http://www.rochesterhdtv.com.
They added a thread about the state of HD in Binghamton.

No additional info available about HD content in Binghamton. Just wanted to keep this thread a bit more visible. :)

Here's an interesting development concerning WIVT-DT. The station is broadcasting on digital channel 4. When I used my HTL-HD to scan this channel is originally came back with 34-1 as the channel number. My understanding is that there is info on the digital stream that makes it show up as its analog channel number - x. Okay, fine. However, today I entered 34-1 on my HTL-HD and it now displays 4-2. I assume that the PSIP info is doing this.

Been out of town awhile.

Here is the latest TWC HD lineup for Binghamton that will be effective 4/1/04

703 WIVT-DT*
705 Discovery HD Theater*
710 HBO HD**
711 Showtime HD**
715 INHD
716 INHD2
717 HDNet
718 HDNet Movies

* Included with HD converter box
** Premium subscription required
Non * $4.95/mo starting 4/1/04

Originally posted by jdspencer
Here's an interesting development concerning WIVT-DT. The station is broadcasting on digital channel 4. When I used my HTL-HD to scan this channel is originally came back with 34-1 as the channel number. My understanding is that there is info on the digital stream that makes it show up as its analog channel number - x. Okay, fine. However, today I entered 34-1 on my HTL-HD and it now displays 4-2. I assume that the PSIP info is doing this.

If the PSIP encoder burns out or something, on Zenith tuners it'll do the physical channel number-2 being that if PSIP is configured correctly, the first stream of video is on x-2 (x-1 is reserved for other things IIRC). Even though the first stream may be on x-2, the tuner can still display it as x-1 because of PSIP.

Two weeks ago my PBS station was remapping to 3.2-6 instead of 15.1-5, and my PAX was on 36-2 instead of 38-1. My PAX is still remapping to 36-2, and the engineer tells me they're installing equipment to do a subchannel, though he has no idea what it is going to show.

Make sure you contact someone at the station and let them know about this. Sometimes they won't even notice sound/PSIP problems.

- Trip

Jim

Are you getting WIVT-DT OTA with 5.1 DD with ABC network programs?

Originally posted by abramsky
Jim

Are you getting WIVT-DT OTA with 5.1 DD with ABC network programs?
You know, I can't really answer that question for sure. I'll check tonight.

And, WIVT-DT is now back on 34-1.

Edit: None of the ABC shows tonight have had DD 5.1 audio. But, I'm not sure if they were supposed to.

Originally posted by abramsky
Been out of town awhile.

Here is the latest TWC HD lineup for Binghamton that will be effective 4/1/04

703 WIVT-DT*
705 Discovery HD Theater*
710 HBO HD**
711 Showtime HD**
715 INHD
716 INHD2
717 HDNet
718 HDNet Movies

* Included with HD converter box
** Premium subscription required
Non * $4.95/mo starting 4/1/04

I thank you for this information. It is the only way I found out the reason for loosing several of my channels, being that I have only had HD for three weeks.

Now this is a little off topic:

Is it me or do you all find it disconcerting that the only way that we seem to get infomation upon services that we pay for is to go and get ourselves. Time Warner's website just does not give you enough information, and most of their call center reps do not appear to know anyting about HD, nor upcoming additions.

Plus when I just called they actually tried to sell me a "Service Plan" that would cover any future component installs. As if i'd trust them to hook up anything after my HD box install. I took me the better part of an hour to go back and fix the installers errors.

As for OTA signals, since I do not have a HD receiver I am basically dependent upon Time Warner. And the other family members do not want a Dish.

Okay, WIVTDT is now showing up as 4-2 again. Channel 4 is what it is broadcasting on but used to get mapped to its analog channel number (34) and would show up as 34-1. I just need clarification that this is a lack of correct PSIP information, right? They also don't have a program description showing, which is also a PSIP function. What are some good buzz words to use when I send an email to them about these issues?

Another thread about HD in Elmira prompts me to ask these questions.

Since our NBC affiliate (WGBHCA) is really a rebroadcast from Elmira (WETM) and it seems that it hasn't been assigned a digital channel yet. When can we expect to see a digital broadcast for this station?

This also then brings up, when will our UPN affiliate be on a channel of its own instead of a subchannel of our Fox affiliate? Wouldn't having UPN being on a subchannel interfere with Fox to provide full bandwidth for HD whenever Fox goes HD?

Then will we ever see a broadcast version of our cable-only WB affiliate? He asks rhetorically. :)

BTW, the NAB.org website is not up to date with regard to our Digital stations. It doesn't have an entry for our only station that is actually broadcasting an HD signal. That being WIVTDT (ABC).

Update:
It seems that WIVT-DT is again being displayed as 4-2 instead of 34-1.

And, I now see program descriptions for 40-1 and 40-2. These are now described as Fox affiliate WICZ-DT and UPN affiliiate WICZ-DT2. So, it seems that the station is doing some PSIP work. Currently, Enterprise on 40-2 has the HD symbol highlighted, but it definately isn't HD. When I put my HTL-HD format into Native mode it reports 480i. I can only hope they are successful in what they are doing. I still have to wonder what will happen with true HD with these two since they are on subchannels.

I asked WIVT why their channel ID is flip flopping.

Here's the response:

Our PSIP (Program and System Information Protocol) channel branding stream is constantly transmitted to remap receivers to 34-1 for branding our HDTV signal with our analog over the air channel. Some set top boxes, usually combo DirecTV/HDTV receivers (from many different manufactures) have an occasional PSIP issue as you've just described. Essentially the satellite provider performs a download or update of your program guide and or subscription information. During this process the channel will appear to your receiver as 4-2. When the process is complete the re-map should return to 34-1 sometimes this may be hours later and it may not complete until overnight hours. Any box that connects to a phone line for program guide or subscription services such as TiVo or pay per view services could be subject to the same issue. We do provide guide information that will show up when you use your guide button or feature of your receiver. Issues with this may be associated with your remote services download or update of your receiver as well.

Makes sense to me. What say the experts here?

I have also emailed Zap2It to include the other DT stations in their description.

No response yet from Zap2It about adding the other DT stations to their system.

It seems I must be talking to myself here. :)

I'm going to use this thread to ask a question about channel assignments.

Binghamton currently has 4 stations broadcasting digitally. Chs 4, 7, 8, and 42, so I have a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF antenna which works okay. Chs 4 and 8 come in fine, but 7 and 42 are sporadic. I put a RS 26db amplifier on it and it helped a bit. I'm only 9 miles from the transmitting towers which are all in the same general direction. However, I have a hill between my location and the towers. What's interesting is that the analog channels (34, 12, 40 and 46) are unwatchable. The digital channels aren't yet operating at full power AFAIK. Only one has any HD content (4-1 ABC). Now to the question. I've heard that once the analog spectrum is turned off, the digital assignments may change. Where do I find out what channels my local stations will eventually be using once the analog spectrum is turned off? I'd just as soon not buy a bigger VHF/UHF antenna now if it will be obsolete later. Will VHF be phased out in favor of UHF for digital broadcasting?

Try this link:

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Mass_Media/Orders/1998/fcc98315.pdf

page B-29

Happy reading.

BTW. TWC Binghamton is working on getting NBC, FOX, UPN in HD, but it's going to be awhile. TWC has to resolve a number of issues to make it happen including technical, logistic, financial and corporate issues.

CBS will only happen when WBNG gets good and ready to make it happen.

Thanks for that link. Page B-29 shows me the NTSC and ATSC channel asignments, but not what they might be changed to when analog goes dark. I guess I'll just get a larger antenna anyway.

I wonder why TGC doesn't go after WIVTDT (ABC) since it is already in HD? WBNG was the first television station in this area as WNBF. So now they are lagging behind the HD world. Makes you wonder where their priorities are? Oh yeah, the bottom line. I wonder if we can contact CBS corporate to put pressure4 on WBNG? Afterall, CBS touts that they are the best HD network in the country.

Update:
WSKGDT is now showing up as 46-1 instead of 42-2 as it was. My HTL-HD is also showing programming guide descriptions.

Time to bring this thread to the first page again. :)

Anyway, our CBS affiliate is the only one that doesn't have guide info for the digital channel (12-1).

Is there a website that lists the REAL power that a station is currently broadcasting. A couple of my stations tend to fluctuate between locking in and not. I tweak the antenna and get a normal signal and then it disappears.

My HTL-HD receiver is now showing guide data for all digital channels except WBNGDT.

Anyone here know for sure if the Binghamton stations are broadcasting 24/7? My HTL-HD just got the latest firmware version which enabled the signal strength metter. So, I tweaked the antenna and was able to get all stations. Some were fluctuating, but I attributed that to trees etc. Now however, I get no signal for WBNGDT and very low for WICZDT, where I did get a high normal signal.

Okay, as I write this, WBNGDT just came in at a low normal signal. Opps, its gone again. I know I need to get a larger antenna, but was curious as to why I can get a normal signal at one time and then nothing at another time.

The azimuth spread for my stations at my location is 224-227 degrees. And, the digital channels are 4, 7, 8, and 42. I'm 8.5 to 8.9 miles from the tower with a hill in between. Currently using a Channel Master 3016 antenna. Any, suggestions for a higher gain one?

I see PBS-HD in 1080i being broadcast on 46-1 now. It looks great. They are also broadcasting what looks like their local stuff on 46-2 in SD. There are also signals for 46-3, 46-4, and 46-5, just a blank screen however. I've emailed WSKG asking what the plans are.

The guide data for 46-1 is not for the HD feed. But, this should straighten out eventually.

I'm just glad that we now have a second station in our area that has HD content.

I wrote an email to Kevin Mower at Time Warner Cable Binghamton and he said that TNT-HD will be launching on May 21st at 9am, on channel 706. No additional charge.

That is good news for those who have TWC. I don't. :)

Will the Greater Binghamton members please post their HD OTA signal strengths for each of our digital channels? Include a general location, receiver and antenna. And, of course the strengths!

My HD receiver is the Hughes HTL-HD. I'm located in Chenango Bridge about 9 miles from the towers with Crocker Hill in between. I currently have the Channel Master 3016 with the Radio Shack 26dB amplifier.

Digital channel 4 (WIVTDT) strength is 89, channel 7 (WBNGDT) is 21 (can't lock on), channel 8 (WICZDT) is 71, and channel 42 (WSKGDT) is 81.

Here's a short update:
Thanks to funkspiel on the RochesterHDTV.com forum for this about our Fox affiliate.
"We are currently working towards providing OTA HD on our NBC station. We are hopeful that the work needed to make this happen will be completed by the start of the Olympics but we can't promise that it will be. Once completed we will be notify our viewers."

I have found out this about our NBC affiliate.
"We are currently working towards providing OTA HD on our NBC station. We are hopeful that the work needed to make this happen will be completed by the start of the Olympics but we can't promise that it will be. Once completed we will notify our viewers."

However, WBGH, the NBC affiliate here in Binghamton is a low power station, so I'm not sure how this will work out.

Update:
No Olympic HD coverage. In fact, they have blocked DirecTV from delivering NBC-HD Olympic coverage. :(

No more info from Binghamton. Status quo.

Our Fox affiliate doesn't answer emails. :( I can only guess that they are working feverishly to get HD up in time for the start of the new TV season.

From memkdavis on the RochesterHDTV.com forum.

-----
Well, I wish had some good news.

I called WICZ (FOX) asking about the future of HDTV. I ended up talking to their engineer. He never gave me a date for HDTV, but he implied that it might not happen for years. For the worst case, he suggested that it might not happen until the mandated dead line of when stations can no longer broadcast their analog signal. This is when their analog infrastructure will need to be replaced. He believes the current deadline (digital only 2006?) is not real and a more realistic date like 2010 will be put in place.
-----

Thank goodness that DirecTV will have Fox-HD shortly. :)

Official Binghamton, NY DMA thread.

Update:
I recently received the following from our WB affiliate. (WBPN)


Thank you for your interest in The WB and our programming. At this time, there aren't any plans of bringing HDTV to the Binghamton area. Thanks again for your time and keep visiting TheWBpass.com.

Regards,

Your Friends at The WB

Also, from our Fox and UPN affiliate.


Thank you for your interest in FOX 40 and our conversion to HDTV. WICZ-TV, FOX 40 and WBPN, UPN 8 are currently broadcast digitally over the air on DTV channel 8. The process of further converting our signal to High Definition is underway though no firm time table for this is in place.

Currently WICZ-TV and Time Warner Cable have yet to reach an agreement which would allow Time Warner Cable to carry our digital signal.

Time Warner Cable does however carry our analog signals under agreement previously approved.

We are hopeful about reaching an agreement for our digital signal, in the meantime we hope you enjoy FOX 40 and UPN 8 over the air on DTV channel 8.

Once again thank you for writing.


I received these responses within 10 minutes of sending them.

I found out a month or so ago that our CBS affiliate, WBNGDT, is providing an HD feed to TWC (ch 700). But, not OTA. And, they aren't sure when they might. It doesn't make any difference to me right now as I get the DirecTV DNS feeds.

I'm having trouble getting all of my OTA stations.

Here are my antenna.org results.

red - vhf WIVT-DT 34.1 ABC BINGHAMTON NY 225° 8.6 4
blue - vhf WBNG 12 CBS BINGHAMTON NY 227° 8.9 12
violet - vhf WBNG-DT 12.1 CBS BINGHAMTON NY 227° 8.9 7
violet - uhf WSKG 46 PBS BINGHAMTON NY 225° 8.8 46
violet - uhf WICZ 40 FOX BINGHAMTON NY 224° 8.8 40
violet - uhf WIVT 34 ABC BINGHAMTON NY 225° 8.6 34

I also receive the following. (Don't know why they aren't in the antenna web results.)

WSKG-DT 46-1 PBS BINGHAMTON NY 42
WICZ-DT 40-1 FOX BINGHAMTON NY 8

As you can see all of the stations are within 3°.

I'm using a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF antenna with a Radio shack adjustable amplifier. There is a hill between me and the towers. The problem is that I can get good signal strengths for WIVT-DT and WICZ-DT, but not the other two.

If I rotate the antenna about 30° CCW I can then get a good signal for WSKG-DT. For this one, I'm assuming that the antenna is receiving a side lobe. So, I adjusted the amplifier to its minimum setting, thinking that a too strong main signal is causing a problem for the Hughes HTL-HD receiver. And/or multipath is getting into the act. Rotated back to the original orientation and still no WSKG. Could it still be too strong? WIVT comes in strong in almost any direction. :)

For WBNG-DT I can find a direction that receives a spotty signal, but then the two good ones also get spotty. Too strong a signal here too?

With those tower locations, I shouldn't need a rotor. The antenna is 15' above my deck. Easier to adjust there than on the roof. I will move it if I think it would help. But, need a little signal for all stations from the same direction before I do that.

I know that multipath is the digital equivalent to ghosting with analog, but I'm not really clear on what it creates. Other than what I seem to see now. Should I try an attenuator in the line?

BTW, only the ABC and PBS affiliates are broadcasting HD.

Any suggestions?

You're likely right about multipath. You probably overloading the preamp as well. You shouldnt' need a preamp at all at that distance.

The preamp (other than overloading) can also make multipath worse by ampifying out of phase signals.

Take the preamp completely out of the system and aim back at the towers.
If you're still having problems, then you'll have to manipulate the signal by moving the antenna, adjusting tilt, height, etc.

You can look at your analogs to get an idea about multipath as well.

Just in case you don't have it, here's a link to the Binghamton station info:
http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/ny/tv_information.asp?m=bin

Thanks for the info. I had seen that site before and had completely forgotten it.
However, that site doesn't list WIVT-DT which is broadcasting ABC HD and is the one that comes in very well.

I'll fuss with it when the weather is a bit better. :)

You have to go under the analog channel and click "complete FCC info" and you'll get info on both analog and digital. WIVT is digital on ch. 4 and appears to be at 1 kw. Under that subsection, if you click on the service window coverage you'll get an approximation of signal coverage for that particular effective radiated power (ERP). See http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WIVT

The 28 Dbu coverage map is at http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DS667259.html

1 kw doesnt' sound like much but it should be more than enough on channel 4 at only 9 miles.

Actually, the licensed ERP for that station is 1.5kw. And, it is definately enough power as that is the one that comes in with a wide range of antenna orientations. So it may be that there is too much signal for the other problematical stations.

They have an STA for 1 kw which they're most likely still using, but the difference shouldn't be significant at your distance (50% increase would only be 1.5db at your receiver anyway). The stations below 100 in DMA rank (Binghamton is #154) don't have to be at full power until Jul '06.

How does one find out which designation they are actually operating at?

I assumed that since the DT was licensed that it was the latest.

But, as you said, the difference won't make that much difference.

Editted to add:
I removed the amplifier and no significance change in reception.
Channel 34-1 (digital 4) is still coming in very well.
Channel 40-1 (8) has a slightly lower strength, but seems stable.
Still can't bring in Channel 12-1 (7) or channel 46-1 (42).

As stated before I have the Channel Master 3016 which should be plenty of antenna for 9 miles to the towers. However, I do have a hill in between. I don't really want to go real high with the antenna, but I may if and when my CBS and Fox affiliates go HD.

Will a larger antenna do better, rather than an amplifier?

If they have an STA listed, chances are they are using it. WIVT recently applied for it 1/8/04 and they're good for 6 mos. That said, the only way to really know for sure is to ask someone at the station. In general though, stations aren't in a hurry to increase their costs until they have to or they feel they have the viewers to justify it. You can click on "application info" to see the specific station's recent applications filed at the FCC.

I'd look at your analog reception. If you have alot of ghosting then multipath is likely your problem (very common with obstruction of line of sight). This may require a different antenna, but first I'd play around with the location of the 3016 and also try adjusting the tilt (upward usually).

If that fails, you'll have to go with a larger, more directional antenna, increase the height, or both.

Stacking would work if you were dealing with uhf only, but stacking is problematic at vhf frequencies because of the large spacing required. Here's an example of stacked uhf yagi/corner reflectors:

Now that's getting a bit ugly. :) The antenna that is. :)

Thanks again for the info. I think I'll just live with what I have and hope that DirecTV can get its act together and get Fox-HD up on the satellite.

I have waivers for the four major networks and therefore CBS-HD and NBC-HD. And ABC is in HD here with WIVT-DT (the one that is working great).

Update. I've raised the 3016 another 5 feet with no appreciable difference. I've rotated it so I receive the following signal test values as measured by the Hughes HTL-HD. Digital ch 4 (ABC analog 34) = 78, Ch 7 (CBS - 12) = 59, Ch 8 (Fox - 40) = 24, and ch 42 (PBS - 46) = 16. I have rotated the antenna so that ch 8 locks in, but then I lose ch 7. These two are only 3 degrees apart, so is this antenna that directional? The Radio Shack 15-1108 amplifier has been removed. See above post for that story.

The Channel Master website shows the 3016 as being medium directional, suburban rated, 30-45 mile reception. The average gain for low VHF is 1.2 dB and it is ch4 that comes in the strongest. High VHF and UHF gains are 7.9 and 7.7 respectively. So I'm wondering if this antenna is overloading my HD receiver? I suspect this may be a possibility because ch 42 will come in strong if I rotate the antenna way away from the tower direction. I'm probably getting a side lobe of the antenna. I haven't found my variable attenuator to see what happens with that.

Attached is a photo of my temporary installation on my deck. You'll see my neighbor's tree, now deleaved, and the hill in the background.

I have also wondered about the Winegard Sensar II Amplified Antenna (GS-2000A) as something that might work. But, I will probably have more of a multipath problem with that.

Suggestions?

Originally posted by jdspencer
Now that's getting a bit ugly. :) The antenna that is. :)



Well JD,one of those "ugly" arrays would likely cure your reception problems.I read back through some of your posts here and elsewhere,and there's one statement you made that sticks out like a sore thumb on 4-16-04:

"What's interesting is that the analog channels(34,12,40 and 46) are unwatchable."

At 8-9 miles I assume these are not snowy,but full of ghosts,herringbone,whatever.If that's the case,you have moderate to extreme multipath,and maybe even some strong FM signals thrown in for good measure.

A 5 or 10 element highband antenna strategically placed somewhere on your property should pick up 7,8 and 4(strong).For UHF maybe a couple of those cheap end-mounted Yagis from RS horizontally stacked(easy to do).If you're lucky,everything will work at one spot,on one mast.You may need a rotor also.Actually,you are going to have to experiment quite a bit to solve your reception ills.The signals are there,you just have to "find" them,then combine them and send them to your receiver.

The antenna you have is fine for flat terrain,but not in your environment.OTOH,there may be a "sweet spot" somewhere on your property that it will work,for every channel.Good luck.

Thanks for the input. I'll play around with this when the weather breaks. A reply in another forum suggested tilting the antenna a bit to aim over the hill. This isn't a high priority right now since I'm only interested in the ABC affilate. If and when the others finally broadcast HD I'll get more interested. Hopefully, DirecTV will get Fox-HD up soon. And, then after getting everything working, the stations will be changing their channel assignment when the analogs go dark.

I discovered a splitter behind the equipment that was being used to feed the FM input on the AV receiver. I removed that and I am not getting strong signals on Chs 4, 7 and 8. There are still audio and video dropouts, but this is probably still due to multipath interference. Now to get a bow tie for ch 42 and combine it.

I'd try an FM trap in the same place where you took the splitter out. Winegard makes a good one, see http://www.tselectronic.com/antenna/winegard/ft7500.html?tse_Session=6b510062b82997db51f14ea0c168dc0b

If still no go, it's multipath.

That FM trap looks like it is mounted on the mast. I'm sure it will work inside, but will it have the same effectiveness?

Hi all,

I'm glad to see other folks in the greater Binghamton area here. I just got my HDTV hardware (pcHDTV 3000 card) and I am only able to get three channels (CBS, FOX, UPN) consistently at 75-80% signal. I cannot get any signal whatsoever from PBS or ABC.

I'm located < 4 miles from the broadcast towers (according to antennaweb.org) but the unfortunate thing is that I'm living in an apartment complex which means that I'm stuck with using indoor antennas. To make matters worse, my apartment faces north and the towers are up the hill (or over the hill) on the south side.

I'm presently using unamplified VHF/UHF antenna (Terk HDTVi) purchased for $40 from Circuit City in Vestal. I should probably try other indoor antennas -- any suggestions?

I'm also sorely disappointed by the lack of HD programming in the area. And it appears that the two channels that are broadcasting in HD (ABC and PBS) are the ones that I cannot get!

JT

Hi JT,
I'm in Chenango Bridge and have been able to get all of our stations, but not at the same time. Crocker Hill is between me and the towers. Right now I get all but PBS. There have been reception problems reportedly due to too strong of a signal. And since you are only 4 miles from the towers, this could be part of your problem. PBS is broadcasting on ch42 and with that hill could also be part of your problem. My ABC is the strongest channel here. And then I still get audio breakups now and then. This is a result of multipath, the digital equivalent to ghosting. Speaking of that, how are the analog channels looking? Come this spring I may do more testing. Currently I have a Channel Master 3016 medium direction antenna which is rated for 30/45 miles. I'm 9 miles from towers. I did have an amplifier on it, but I get better results without it. You might try an attenuator in that antenna of yours. If you have a simple splitter hanging around, connect that to see what happens. Does the apartment complex have a common antenna on the roof? If so, maybe you could connect to it. If not, see if the managers would allow you to install one.

The total lack of HD by our locals is amazing. So much for the Greater Binghamton Area. I have DirecTV and get CBS, NBC, and Fox HD from them. The new SHVERA rules may prevent you from getting the waivers to receive those from DirecTV. And with your north facing apartment, it would be difficult for you to get DirecTV. I have the Hughes HTL-HD receiver. Time Warner Cable's HD offering is not good enough in my opinion.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Any simple splitter will attenuate the strong signal? I'm currently out of town but I will be returning in a few days. I will also be returning the Terk indoor antenna (which I hear is no better than a coat hanger) and maybe get a bow-tie indoor antenna from Radio Shack or simple VHF dipoles with a UHF ring antenna from Walmart.

I'm not sure what the analog channels are like but I will try it when I get back. I have standard cable service from TWC so I never really bothered with the analog OTA TV. Speaking of TWC, do you know whether or not their HD cable is QAM encrypted? My pcHDTV is suppose to have QAM support (some day) which means that I should be able to pick up HD over cable as long as it's not encrypted. I agree with you that TWC offering is meager. A friend of mine was looking for a new TV set but decided against an HDTV set because of the cost was not worth the lack of HDTV content in the area. I guess it's a chicken-egg issue.

I will be moving out in about 6 months probably to the City of Binghamton. (It's not because of the DTV situation!) I guess one of my criteria in the hunt for a new apartment will be south side facing windows.

BTW, what is this "waiver" to which you are refering? Also, any reason why all the DTV channels are VHF (except for PBS)?

JT

I have no idea if TWC has their HD encrypted. I haven't had TWC for several years now. And, then it was only their lifeline 2-13 version.

When you read other threads here on this forum you read a lot about the Silver Sensor indoor antenna, which is UHF only. Many here forget that not all HD stations are using UHF. The majority seem to, but here in Bingo town only PBS is using UHF for their digital signal. And when the full switchover occurs, who knows what channel assignments our stations will be using?

The waivers I speak of is to allow DirecTV to provide me with what is called DNS, Distant Network Stations. I was allowed waivers because where I live I can't get a decent analog channel. I had to complain to WBNG to get them to allow the waiver. So now I purchase from DirecTV the main four network stations, which are from NYC and LA. Now when HD came along I automatically get those HD stations as well. Only ABC is lacking at the moment. But, since our ABC is in HD I don't worry about it.

Yesterday, I got all of our stations digitally. Today ch 12 (digital 7) and 46 (digital 42) are not coming in. I'll worry about that next spring. :)

Hi jdspencer,

Digital Channel 7 (DT-7) was also out for me today. Normally I get DT-7 with no problems.

I tried using a splitter to attenuate the signal in hopes of finding the missing PBS and ABC channels. It did not help. After playing around with 3 other indoor UHF/VHF combo antennas, I was able to find two spots in my apartment with the ABC (DT-4) and PBS (DT-42) signal. My pcHDTV card reports 68% signal strength for DT-42 which is fairly good and 54% for DT-4 which is still watchable (visual and auditory artifacts every 5 seconds or so with very little stutter). The problem is that if I move my antenna to one of those two positions, I lose all other channels. If only I can find one spot in the apartment where I can get all the channels... Monday Night Football in HDTV is awesome.

JT

It is kind of weird that we are now fussing with antennas again isn't it? Takes me back to the 50's and trying to get ch 12 when it first started. We actually got our best signal then by pointing the antenna at the hill behind us. The primary ghost was stronger than the direct signal.

Good luck for now and when you move make sure you have a good line of sight to the towers.

I'm using a Philips ring + dipole indoor amplified antenna and I found a spot where I can get 4 (60%), 7 (70%), and 8 (60%). It's watchable with the occasional sound quirks and visual artifacts on channel 4. I tried the Silver Surfer (I know it's UHF-only but figured since I'm so close...) and it's able to pick up 7, 8, and 42 at around 50% which is unwatchable.

I guess 3 out of 4 channels isn't bad.

jdspencer, have you tried tuning to the HD stations outside of Binghamton such as those in Syracuse and Elmira?

I tried last fall with a huge VHF/UHF antenna from Radio Shack, but didn't get anything. But, then I didn't have the antenna very high.

Currently, it seems that my HD receiver isn't remapping the Fox 40 correctly. Same thing happened last summer. I actually receive 8-2 (Fox) and 8-3 (UPN), these should be remapped to 40-1 and 40-2, which are both the same right now. Not a big deal and eventually it should get fixed. I email Fox asking if they are having a problem with PSIP. No reply yet.

Without touching anything, I now can get 12-1, which does come and go. And occasionally 46-1 will pop in.

Originally posted by jdspencer
I tried last fall with a huge VHF/UHF antenna from Radio Shack, but didn't get anything. But, then I didn't have the antenna very high.

Currently, it seems that my HD receiver isn't remapping the Fox 40 correctly. Same thing happened last summer. I actually receive 8-2 (Fox) and 8-3 (UPN), these should be remapped to 40-1 and 40-2, which are both the same right now. Not a big deal and eventually it should get fixed. I email Fox asking if they are having a problem with PSIP. No reply yet.

Without touching anything, I now can get 12-1, which does come and go. And occasionally 46-1 will pop in.

All digital stations have to change the way PSIP is set up by Saturday, so many are scrambling to do so. I think it has something to do with reserving the x.2, not just the .0 and .1, for other purposes, and making the first video signal (which maps to x-1) x.3. It's causing all kinds of problems on WRIC-DT in Richmond, VA, and in many other places it's leading to less fatal problems like the one you describe.

Let me simplify. When you tune to channel 40-1, the PSIP tells the tuner to display the Fox signal, which appeared on the 8.2 part of the bitstream. The 8.0 and 8.1 are reserved for other things, though I can't remember what exactly. Now, PSIP requires that 8.2 also be reserved. This means that Fox gets moved to 8.3 (but still maps to 40-1) and UPN to 8.4 (40-2).

Just be patient with them.

- Trip

Interesting. Thanks for that info.
I guess I'll see what happens tomorrow.
It's not a big deal, as long as the chennel appears somewhere.:)

Just checked out your RabbitEars site. It looks promising. Keep up the good work.

BTW, my market is 154 Binghamton NY.
The broadcasting stations here are WBNG (12, 7), WIVT (34, 4), WICZ(40, 8), WBPN-LP(40 subchannel), and WSKG (46, 42). That LP station is shown with an ERP of .004kW.

Originally posted by jdspencer
Interesting. Thanks for that info.
I guess I'll see what happens tomorrow.
It's not a big deal, as long as the chennel appears somewhere.:)

Just checked out your RabbitEars site. It looks promising. Keep up the good work.

BTW, my market is 154 Binghamton NY.
The broadcasting stations here are WBNG (12, 7), WIVT (34, 4), WICZ(40, 8), WBPN-LP(40 subchannel), and WSKG (46, 42). That LP station is shown with an ERP of .004kW.

Thanks! To be honest, I haven't worked on it in about a month.

Could you be more specific with your list? Which ones are in HD? What are the subchannels and remapping of each?

Since Binghamton is a small market and you were one of the only people to visit my old Bitstream forum idea, I might could do Binghamton for you this weekend if you can get me that info.

Thanks!

- Trip

Okay,
WBNG digital ch 7 mapped to 12-1 CBS affiliate Not HD
WICZ digital ch 8 mapped to 40-1 Fox affiliate Not HD
WBPN digital ch 8 mapped to 40-2 UPN affiliate subchannel Not HD Analog ch 10
WIVT digital ch 4 mapped to 34-1 ABC affiliate HD
WSKG digital ch 42 mapped to 46-1 PBS affiliate National PBS HD
WSKG digital ch 42 mapped to 46-2 local PBS programming
They are also showing 46-2, 46-3, & 46-4 but no programming.

As you can see we have no broadcast NBC HD affiliate. We do have an LP NBC station. WBGH analog channel 20.

http://www.rabbitears.info/listing.php?id=bng

Enjoy!

(And I went ahead and made 40-1 720p, since I'm hearing through the grapevine that Fox has set a deadline for its affiliates with digital assignments to begin HD broadcasts--and I'm told that deadline is 'in time for the Super Bowl')

- Trip

Hey that's great. I'm glad I could help with your very large effort.

Locally, I haven't heard from WICZ about their HD efforts.

Luckily for me, I get Fox-HD from DirecTV.

Another thing weird about our locals, is that WBNG (CBS) does provide HD to our local cable company. I guess that's easier than to broadcast an HD signal.

It's nice that there is at least one TV station employee that visit these forums.

I've been having real trouble getting good signal lately. I'm wondering if it's because of all the snow piling up on trees.

I have trouble on occasions with all of them. Dropouts happen often. PBS isn't coming in well for me. I need to do some antenna adjustments. But, not until spring. :) I'm in Chenango Bridge and Crocker Hill is between me and the towers. I'm guessing that multipath is my main problem and with snow on the trees it could be yours as well.

jd,
I have time warner cable and they do not provide a HD feed from WBNG on channel 700. The programing on that channel is an NBCHD feed from Elmira.
I emailed WBNG recently about their apparent lack of a timetable to convert to HDTV and got no response.

Lou

Well, no surprise there. :)

Could you verify if this list of HD channels on TWC is correct?

700 WBGH HD
703 WIVT HD
704 WSKG
705 Discovery HD Theatre
706 TNT HD
710 HBO HD
711 Showtime HD
715 INHD
716 INHD2
717 HD Net
718 HDNET Movies
719 ESPN-HD
750 WBNG Digital

This list was extracted from their website.
http://www.timewarnercable.com/CustomerService/CLU/TWCCLUs.ashx?CLUID=337

So 700 isn't really WBNG HD, but NBC from Elmira. And 750 is just the SD digital feed. I guess I'm not going to TWC for HD any time soon. :) The only ones on that list that I don't get with DirecTV are INHD and INHD2.

This is really sad. As an aside, WBNG was the first TV station in our area (then WNBF).

jd,

Yes, that list is correct. It is a joke for them to even put the WBNG digital feed in their lineup as the the picture quality looks worse than the analog channel (on my set anyhow). I am very tempted to go satellite with the waivers now in place as my main viewing interests are major sports. The only thing keeping me with TWC is the convenience of paying my security,internet access and cable bill in one shot.

Lou

I would probably be with TWC for my internet service if I didn't have DSL. Which is bundled with my local and long distance phone service. TWC p...ed me off a few years ago when they didn't offer UPN for over a year. I needed my Enterprise Voyager fix. I had to rely on a co-worker who had Dish Net for that. Not to mention their yearly rate increases. Once I discovered that some of our locals were broadcasting a digital signal that I could receive, better than analog, I then dumped the basic TWC package. I have DirecTV Total Choice and Dish for Superstations. Bottom line, TWC doesn't offer anything that I need at the moment.

I'm with TWC because of the Internet. I could get DSL but I would have to pay extra to get a landline as well. (My cell is my only phone.) Otherwise, I would be on satellite in a heartbeat. Speaking of price increases, I'm presently paying close to $50 for standard cable. It was about $41 2 years ago.

I just bought a new HDTV and added Time-Warner's HDTV tier. I'm generally pleased with what they offer, but obviously not pleased with the local channels. I was just wondering if WBNG is in HD? It's not in Elmira, just the channel. But I was told it's in HD in Binghamton and CBS' Web site lists it as HD. Just wondering because I couldn't find an e-mail address on WBNG's site, which is not the best I've ever seen. Thanks for any help anyone may be able to give me.

WBNG's OTA digital signal is not in HD. It is listed in TWC's Binghamton list, but it isn't in HD. Just the digital feed. Is TWC's Elmira lineup different.

Anyway, at the very bottom of WBNG's website, in small print there is a link for contacts. Here'e the link. http://www.wbng.com/home/contact.html

I think we need to contact CBS and tell them.

Thanks for the help, jd. I sent them an e-mail. The main CBS site has WBNG listed as one of about six New York state CBS HD channels. I also found a listing for a WETM-DT HD channel (WETM being the NBC affiliate in Elmira) somewhere out there in Internet land. I have no reason to believe either is accurate though and in Elmira we receive zero networks in HD. We also have a Fox channel (WYDC) with a terrible, snowy feed.
If the FCC really wanted to push HD forward, they would eliminate the need for any waivers for people who don't have access to HD network channels. Because if I could, I'd get DirecTV in a second. Luckily, my brother has HDTV and the March Madness ticket, so at least I can go there and watch those games and the NFL.
So right now in Elmira we have PBS, INHD, INHD2, HDNET, HDNet Movies, TNT, HBO, Showtime, ESPNHD and Discovery.
I also e-mailed TW regarding the possibility of ESPN2 and the PPV HD movies some TW affiliates are receiving. They e-mailed me back and had no info. I e-mailed WETM and WBNG and plan to e-mail the other two network affiliates, if for no other reason to let them know the interest for HDTV is there and is growing faster than they realize or acknowledge.

Luckily for me I have waivers in place for all four major networks, so I get them in HD as well from DirecTV. But, I wish I could get WB and UPN in HD as well. I use Dish network for their Superstation pack to get WB and UPN in SD. I wish DirecTV would offer TNT-HD. Only time will tell what happens.

Does any one know where the FM broadcast towers are located in the Binghamton area? Has anyone looked into FM traps (http://www.kyes.com/antenna/interference/fm/fmfilter.html) that may block out the interference with our VHF HD channels?

Use this FCC site to find the FM Stations.
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/fmq.html

Will we ever get the Yankees in HD? Today's game on ESPNHD is a blackout, as I expected. I was told over the phone that YESHD should be up in the Binghamton/Elmira area within a week (as of two days ago). Of course, anyone out there with D* is already watching Yankees games in HD on the YES Network.

I don't know about YES-HD other than the DirecTV version, which I have. :)

I don't have TWC.

BTW, I'm getting the Yankee game on EPSN-HD (ch73) as well as YES-HD (ch 94). I prefer YES because it doesn't have the stupid bottom scrolling banner. The ESPN version does seem to be a bit sharper. And they aren't using the same cameras, at least not the same angles.

Time Warner carried the last four innings or so of the YESHD feed of today's Red Sox-Yankees game on INHD2.
I'm tempted to go to DirecTV, but I want to see what happens with HD on DirecTV this summer before I purchase anything. As it stands, if TW carries YESHD the rest of the season, I'll be getting more baseball games on TW than I would on DirecTV because of INHD's coverage.
If DirecTV offers FSNHD and MSGHD and ESPN2HD, then I'd become much more interested in switching over, especially with those channels' return to TW in any format looking unlikely for the near future.

DirecTV does have, at extra cost, MLB Extra Innings package, where you'd get most of the out of market games. Many in HD. I believe YES will only be in HD for home games. Maybe some away.

BTW, What HD does TWC offer in Elmira? How's the quality?

Curious to see if Extra Innings does offer HD games. That would definitely make a difference.
Time Warner down here offers all the national TW stuff -- INHD, HDNET, TNT, ESPN, HBO, SHOW, etc. We're still without any networks except WSKG (PBS). If I can get CBS and FOX from DirecTV, I'd definitely be interested. The people at DirecTV can't tell me what I'd get, but since Elmira has neither channel (WBNG is Binghamton, awful WYDC is Corning), I'd hope I'd have a chance. My brother lives outside of Elmira and receives all but NBC from DirecTV's network feeds. The nice thing is he gets the NFL ticket, which gives me the NFL in HD for free.
The only thing I can compare the quality to is my brother's DirecTV HD picture. The colors seem brighter on mine and my PQ actually seems sharper, but I have a nicer TV and I'm using an HDMI cable, which isn't an option for him. Plus, that may just be his settings. I'd have to say I'm generally satisfied with the quality from TW (plus RoadRunner is faster than most high-speed Internet carriers), though the quantity isn't as great as I'd like. We also do not receive any pay-per-view movies in HD, which is a negative. However, I don't think that will be as big an issue when HD DVD arrives.
I should also point out that the picture quality on the non-HD channels on TW seems pretty bad, and the PQ on DirecTV's channels is significantly better.

I have all four major networks from DirecTV. I wish DirecTV would add TNT-HD and WB and UPN. WBNG isn't even broadcasting HD. :)

I talked to the rep at Time Warner about WBNG not doing HD. There's no excuse for that, especially considering they have a really, really awful digital WBNG channel. He agreed on both counts. I e-mailed WBNG and they had no response on their HD future.

I find it amazing that the TV station in Binghamton that was the pioneer in this area is lagging so far behind in regards to HD. And that ch 34, which was the third station in our area, is broadcasting a good HD signal.

This area is not being served very well when it comes to OTA TV. We don't have a broadcast WB station and the UPN station is very low power. And the NBC station is also low power and is basically a rebroadcast from your NBC station. It uses our local Fox station local newscast.

Originally posted by supergrass
I talked to the rep at Time Warner about WBNG not doing HD. There's no excuse for that, especially considering they have a really, really awful digital WBNG channel. He agreed on both counts. I e-mailed WBNG and they had no response on their HD future.

I emailed them and received the following reply:

I am sorry to say WBNG has no plans at this point to go to HDTV


Sorry

Michael Calkins


Bummer.

That's just plain stupid. But, maybe they just don't want to say when they may go HD for fear of then missing the date.

I'm glad I get CBS-HD with DirecTV.

Originally posted by jdspencer


I'm glad I get CBS-HD with DirecTV.

What is the procedure (and regulations) regarding waivers etc? Is lack of an HD feed sufficient grounds for a waiver??

Well, the rules have changed. But you still need to call DirecTV and ask them which DNS channels you can receive and to request waivers. Whether the lack of HD is enough doesn't matter. It's up to the individual stations.

In my case, a few years ago I called and asked for DNS and immediately was able to get ABC, NBC, and Fox. I later got the postcard stating that CBS denied the request. Then I got the HD receiver and noticed that our locals were broadcasting a digital signal with only our ABC and PBS stations broadcasting HD. The Superbowl on CBS was approaching, so I emailed WBNG about when they would go HD. They didn't know (and now state that there are no plans, what a bunch of losers). Then DirecTV was going to offer CBS-HD in time for the game. Now my email to WBNG included this fact and out of the blue they granted a waiver. I get all four nets in HD, both east and west.

WETM-DT HD (NBC out of Elmira) does seem to be on TW cable (unscrambled) in the Binghamton area. I receive it as CADTV channel 79-14 on my LST-3410A, and it is being transmitted in 1080i stereo. You would think this should also be available on TW in Elmira.

I wish WBNG would start broadcasting in HD!

Here is the response to my recent email to WICZ:



Thank you for your interest in FOX 40 and our conversion to HDTV. WICZ-TV, FOX 40 and WBPN, UPN 8 are currently broadcast digitally over the air on DTV channel 8. The process of further converting our signal to High Definition is underway though no firm time table for this is in place.

Currently WICZ-TV and Time Warner Cable have yet to reach an agreement which would allow Time Warner Cable to carry our digital signal.

Time Warner Cable does however carry our analog signals under agreement previously approved.

We are hopeful about reaching an agreement for our digital signal, in the meantime we hope you enjoy FOX 40 and UPN 8 over the air on DTV channel 8.



Thank you for writing.

I think this means that rabbitears.info should be corrected? (FOX 40 is not in HD (720p), right?)

No HD from Fox with my OTA antenna. And, their PSIP isn't working either. I can receive Fox and UPN on 8-2 and 8-3 as well as 40-1 and 40-2. The guide data for 40-2 is for UPN yet the picture is Fox 40 there. I emailed them about their PSIP a couple fo weeks ago, but nothing from them yet. And, before you ask, I have restarted my HD receiver a couple of times. It doesn't really matter yet for me. I get Fox HD from DirecTV DNS.

Nah, I'm leaving WICZ alone. I figure they'll get to it eventually. Actually, I imagine they'll have to do it soon or face Fox's wrath.

- Trip

Originally posted by Trip in VA
Nah, I'm leaving WICZ alone. I figure they'll get to it eventually. Actually, I imagine they'll have to do it soon or face Fox's wrath.


With all due respect, wouldn't you want to strive for accuracy? (If it were my web page I would :cool: )

(Who knows how long it will take WICZ to make the transistion...)

Originally posted by hiperco
With all due respect, wouldn't you want to strive for accuracy? (If it were my web page I would :cool: )

(Who knows how long it will take WICZ to make the transistion...)

True, but in case you haven't noticed, I haven't even looked at my own site in months. :P So it's not all that big of a deal. I'm sure that by the time I'd get around to updating it, it'd be in HD.

Seriously though, I could have swore I heard something about Fox setting a deadline for HD and any that didn't upgrade would hear about it...

- Trip

Trip,
I wouldn't hold my breath about your "I'm sure that by the time I'd get around to updating it, it'd be in HD." statement. :) Unless the update is after they have done it. :D

Do you think that our UPN affiliate would go HD on the subchannel? Or do we wait for them to upgrade their own transmitter, which is currently low power.

I wonder what the Fox deadline is for their affiliates. Maybe if we sent email/letters to Fox about their affiliate here it would help speed things up. Nah, what am I thinking.

Channel 700 on Time Warner Cable in Elmira is now showing up as WETM-HD. Hopefully, it's there for keeps. It seems like things are still being tweaked because the signal keeps going in and out, but the PQ is a significant upgrade for just the digital programming. I don't think any HD programming is on NBC until prime time. It'd be the first HD network channel available on cable in Elmira.

Originally posted by jdspencer
Trip,
I wouldn't hold my breath about your "I'm sure that by the time I'd get around to updating it, it'd be in HD." statement. :) Unless the update is after they have done it. :D

Do you think that our UPN affiliate would go HD on the subchannel? Or do we wait for them to upgrade their own transmitter, which is currently low power.

I wonder what the Fox deadline is for their affiliates. Maybe if we sent email/letters to Fox about their affiliate here it would help speed things up. Nah, what am I thinking.

Yes, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get around to it until then. That said, I'm planning on discontinuing RabbitEars as it is; I think I've come up with a much better way to do it. Hopefully it will make it quicker, more reliable, and simpler.

No. Definitely no. There's not enough bandwidth for two HD streams without compressing the hell out of both of them.

- Trip

Thanks for that info, Trip.

Our UPN does have a transmitter, but really low power. So who knows when their will get around to full power and then digital/HD capability. I'm not holding my breath. :)

Would two HD streams at 720p be possible without a lot of compression?

Originally posted by jdspencer
Thanks for that info, Trip.

Our UPN does have a transmitter, but really low power. So who knows when their will get around to full power and then digital/HD capability. I'm not holding my breath. :)

Would two HD streams at 720p be possible without a lot of compression?

Well, I'll put it like this. A full 1080i stream just about uses up the 19.39 mbps available during the high-action scenes. Statistical multiplexing, however, allows for the bandwidth to be reallocated to other streams when needed, so that number can vary.

720p can survive with 16 mbps well. Again, stat-muxing will pull it off alright.

Will the just under 9 mbps be enough? I doubt it. My local PBS station at one point aired HD right alongside 4 SD feeds (one sucked up 3.5, the others about 2), leaving roughly 10 for 1080i HD. It looked like crap.

- Trip

Hi. I am going to be living in Binghamton attending BU for school. I will be a grad student, so I'll have an apartment up there. I don't feel like paying TWC the $ they charge for basic cable and internet.

I was wondering what luck I will have if I use an antenna to grab OTA signals. What channels are offered OTA and how clearly do they come in (both analog and digital)? What kind of equipment do I need to grab an adequate amount of channels?

Thank you for your help

Mike (the very appreciative newb)

The analog broadcast channels that are available here are:
ABC ch 34
CBS ch 12
NBC ch 20 (low power)
Fox Ch 40
UPN ch 10 (low power)
PBS ch 46
WB is cable only, so you'll be out of luck there.
All of the towers are at the same location.
I live a few miles NE of Binghamton with another hill in the way, so analog is awful.
But, in town shouldn't be a problem. You may also be able to get a couple of channels from Elmira.

The digital OTA frequencies are:
ABC ch 4
CBS ch 8
Fox ch 7
UPN is using a sub channel of Fox
PBS ch 42
Only ABC and PBS are currently providing HD on their digital channels.

You'll need an HD set top box ATSC tuner to receive the HD OTA.

Thank you for that guide.

I have a Samsung HD setup, but I need help on a suitable antenna. Is there any antenna that is better than the others for receiving digital and analog OTA signals in Binghamton? I was looking at the Terk TV55 as a possible antenna. WOuld that be adequate at picking up signals?

Go to www.antennaweb.org and enter your address. This will show you how far you are from the towers and what antenna you need. You'll need a VHF/UHF antenna. Many have said that you should avoid Terk antennas. But, it may work well for you. All I can say is that when we put a new TV in a church in Binghamton, a simple indoor VHf/UHF antenna did very well picking up all stations I mentioned above. This was a $10 unit from Radio Shack. The main problem with digital reception is multipath, which is the digital equvalent to ghosting. Except it causes the receiver to not lock on to the signal. Good luck.

Hi Mike (& jdspencer):

Nice to see a fellow BU grad student here.

I lived in a Vestal apartment complex behind Circuit City. I've recently moved to Binghamton about 1 block north of Main St. and 5 blocks west of downtown Binghamton. Both of the apartments were approximately 4 miles from the broadcast towers but the difference in reception is like night and day. My reception in the Vestal apartment ranged from unusable to poor. The reason was probably because the hill was blocking the signal. Read my previous posts in this forum if you want to hear more about the Vestal apartment experience.

My HDTV reception in my Binghamton apartment is quite good. I'm using plain old rabbit ears taped to the top of the doorway into my roommate's bedroom. (Note that I'm not aiming it directly at a Window.) I'm able to pick up and watch Channel 4 (ABC), 8 (I forget), and 42 (PBS). The strongest and most stable channel is 42 which is a UHF channel. This is surprising because rabbit ears are suppose to be bad with UHF. I can rotate the antenna slightly to pick up Channel 7 but I would lose signal strength with the others channels. IMHO, the only two OTA channels really worth picking up are Channel 4 (ABC) and 42 (PBS) because (as noted by folks in this forum) they are the only two broadcasting HD content. I'm sure I can get all the channels if I tape my rabbit ears to my porch.

While living in the Vestal apartment, I've tested over 6 different indoor antenna: 2 radioshack models ($10 and $25), 1 amplified Philips VHF/UHF combo ($25), the rabbit ears ($??), the Zenith Silver Surfer ($40 at Sears) that everyone raves about, and Terk55 ($40 at Circuit City). IMHO, the Terk was the worst.

Hope this helps.

Jim

I'll prob be moving to the vestal area soon. I was thinking of ithaca, it would have much better HDTV but its a little too far for me.

I have to look around for a good apt. I figure I could find a multistory one at a higher elevation and have some chance at picking up signals from syracuse. Thats seems to be the only place with hdtv on all the networks.

otherwise, I could get direcTV, I hear they are now offering all the networks in HD.

The only issue is that I use a myHD on my computer to watch and record HD. if I use DirecTV, I'd have to get a modded STB or something which would cost like $1000. I'm not sure I'm ready to invest that much for a few channels.

Hi Jim,

Are you using just OTA for your TV viewing or do you subscribe to TWC or something else? Is it even worth getting TWC? As a first year non-funded grad student, money is tight and I don't want to pay what TWC charges.

Not to get off topic, but what are you using for internet? Other than roadrunner, is there anything else available like Verizon DSL? Is internet access expensive in the area?

Thank you for your help

Mike

I was looking at prices since I plan to move there.
TWC seems to cost $60, Internet costs another $50 I think
but DirecTV only costs $40

I have no idea about DSL because I do not have an address yet.
otherwise, I'd go to dslreports.com

Anyone have any places they'd recc I live in vestal?

Hi Mike & Enrico:

I'm not sure what you guys need with respect to cable, internet, and phone service but here's how I came to my decision:

1. I need cable channels because I don't watch much network television other than Lost and the Fox prime time animation line-ups.
2. I need high speed Internet access.
3. I don't need land line phone service because my cell phone is my primary line.

The best package for me as a grad student at BU is standard cable service with TWC ($48/mo) and Road Runner through BU's Telecommunication (http://www.telecom.binghamton.edu/roadrunner/pricing.html) ($32/mo).

If you need land line phone service, you may be better off with:

Cable: DishNetwork (http://www.dishnetwork.com)
Internet: Verizon DSL ($30/mo)
Phone: Verizon

TWC's standard cable service (includes TNT, Comedy Central, FX, etc..) is really expensive relative to DishNetworks offerings. I would get DishNetwork if it weren't for the phone line service charge ($15-$20/mo) underneath of DSL. Verizon, however, does plan to offer naked DSL (DSL without phone service). When that happens, I will be switching to DSL and DishNetwork.

Satellite service does go out in bad weather although I'm sure it's not as bad as TWC makes it to be. Make sure you check with someone in the Binghamton area on service outages. Jdspencer may be able to answer that.

If you are planning to move to Vestal and OTA HDTV is important, make sure you have a direct line of sight to the broadcast towers. Again, remember that only 2 channels in the area are broadcasting HDTV content so it may not even be worthwhile.

Hope this helps.

Jim

Thanks for the reply.

For me, I mostly watch network channels but I also watch cable channels but just basic cable channels. I also need high speed internet but I do not need land line phone service.

I actually am not a BU student so I do not know what my options are.
HDTV is rather important to me so the lack of local coverage is a problem.
TWC would be my preference because it uses QAM but ABC is the only channel with HDTV that I would watch.

It seems that DirecTV is my only choice but now I hear that the resolution is only 1280x1080i.
I know Dish network is offering CBS-HD but I don't know if there is any play to add nbc, fox, and ABC.

It seems that getting a tall west facing apt east of binghamton U would allow me to have access to the north for syracuse, east for elmira and south for binghamton, scanton, and SAT.
From looking at topo maps, it seems the entire area is in a valley surrounded by hills so I'm guessing that I would not have much luck trying to pick up signals from Elmira, syrcause, scranton, etc.

I don't know much about the neighborhoods though so I'm not too sure where the best place to live is. I read that there was a big chemical spill in endicott.

I'll just respond with what I have. I've been a long time DirecTV customer due to the fact that I worked for a Hughes company. I also had standard cable for a while and then dropped that back to basic cable (2-13) to keep the networks. DirecTV doesn't have locals here. Then I got an HDTV and wanted some HD content, so I bought a DirecTV HD receiver that could also get OTA HD. I then discovered which of our locals actually had a digital signal. And, those came in much better than the analog versions. As was stated before, only ABC and PBS have HD content. In my location only ABC comes in reliably (need to tweak the antenna). I only needed TWC for local news, but with a digital signal up I dropped TWC. I then needed WB and UPN, so I bought a Dish network receiver and subscribed to just their Superstation pack. To get the four networks on DirecTV ( and thus the HD versions), you need waivers from the local stations. These rules have changed so I don't know how difficult that would be. I do have waivers and having both east and west coast feeds for the networks is great. :)

Weather related outages due to heavy thunderstorms can happen. But, it only stays out as long as the heaviest storm clouds block the signal, at most 10 minutes for me. Cable can go out for much longer periods. Snow piling up on the dish can also be a problem, so I mounted my dish where it can be easily reached for a quick brush off.

Because TWC wanted a premium for cable internet unless you had standard cable, I opted to wait for my local phone company, Frontier, to offer DSL. I get about 2mbps download speed. Which is plenty for me. I believe Verizon does off DSL in their territory, but you need to be within 3 miles of a central office or repeater.

thanks for the reply.

You mentioned that you got Dish Networks for WB and UPN and DirecTV for the four networks.
DirecTV does not offer UPN or WB? Dish Networks offers WB and UPN in hdtv?
What did you do to get the waivers? From what I've read, they give you a waiver if you cannot receive the channel, but what if you can receive the station but they simply do not offer HDTV programming, like FOX, NBC, and CBS.
From what I've read, CBS may go to HDTV soon, FOX wont have HDTV for a looong time. I'm not sure whats going on with NBC.

Have you had any luck with trying to get signals from other cities such as elmira, syracuse, scranton? Are there any areas that you would recc living? perhaps higher ground?

Hi Enrico,


I actually am not a BU student so I do not know what my options are.
HDTV is rather important to me so the lack of local coverage is a problem.
TWC would be my preference because it uses QAM but ABC is the only channel with HDTV that I would watch.

I wouldn't put my faith in TWC and QAM. My pcHDTV card has QAM support but I was not able to pull any QAM feed over cable back at my Vestal apartment. Either I've misconfigured something in my Linux + MythTV + pcHDTV card set up or I may need to subscribe to something beyond standard cable for them to "turn on" the QAM signal. I will make an attempt to get QAM feed in my current Binghamton apartment towards the end of next week.


It seems that DirecTV is my only choice but now I hear that the resolution is only 1280x1080i.

That doesn't appear to be wide screen. I though HD content is 16:9 wide screen.


I know Dish network is offering CBS-HD but I don't know if there is any play to add nbc, fox, and ABC.

See jdspencer's previous posts about waivers. (Thanks jd for the posts!) The redeeming fact about TWC is that they don't make you sign a contract. There is a set up fee for cable -- I forget how much was it. DishNetwork and Verizon DSL make you sign 1-year contracts.

I don't recall any time when cable TV service was out in the past 3 years but road runner was really bad at the Vestal apartment. The cable guy came and told us that the signal was too weak because it was splitted among 3 TVs. Later, we found out (on our own) that the first jack into the apartment was bad. You could jiggle it and it could knockout or restore Internet service. I guess it was our land lord fault (not TWC) for Road Runner being horrible.


It seems that getting a tall west facing apt east of binghamton U would allow me to have access to the north for syracuse, east for elmira and south for binghamton, scanton, and SAT.
From looking at topo maps, it seems the entire area is in a valley surrounded by hills so I'm guessing that I would not have much luck trying to pick up signals from Elmira, syrcause, scranton, etc.

Are there topo maps for the region available online? And yes the area is basically in a bowl.


I don't know much about the neighborhoods though so I'm not too sure where the best place to live is. I read that there was a big chemical spill in endicott.
PM me about this if you want.

well the QAM is encrypted right? except for channels that cannot be, like network channels.
but it doesnt matter since ABC and PBS are the only places that broadcast HDTV.

I read about the DirecTV thing here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=544645 and I think I saw something about it elsewhere.

The previous post doesnt mention if Dish Networks plans to do the same as DirecTV with the network channels.

I've been doing alot of searching and came across some very cool maps.
The topo maps can be found here http://broomegis.co.broome.ny.us/website/gisweb/gislibrary.htm

oh and aerial maps here http://broomegis.co.broome.ny.us/website/gisweb/gisappswarning.htm

It seems that all the populated areas are in the "bowl".

I'll PM you about the other thing, thanks

so I've been reading the SHVERA at fcc.gov and it seems that the Sat. companies will provide me a local feed if I am a "underserved" household or if I get waivers.


If you do qualify as an “unserved household,” you are eligible to receive no more than two distant network-affiliated signals per day for each TV network.

If your household is predicted “served,” you may be able to get a waiver from the television stations that are predicted to serve your household over-the-air. Ask your satellite company to request a waiver from the television station on your behalf.


So would it be best to find an apartment in an area which receives no TV signals at all.
Like one with some hills in the way.

Well, I got my waivers several years ago and the rules have changed. DirecTV used to have a page that allowed you to enter your address to see whether you would be eligible for the DNS stations. However, that page now says this. http://www.directv.com/see/landing/dns.html
See this page as well for info about non-local channels. http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/LocalChannelsAction.do

I would call DirecTV or Dish and ask about getting non-locals. But, be prepared for the old CSR run around. :)

well I tried the second link and they said they dont have plans to offer local channels.
Dish doesnt offer the network hdtv feeds right?

what did you have to do back then to get your waiver?
It isnt entirely clear to me how the waiver works? I mean why the tv station would give out a waiver.

oh also, do you know if these rules apply the same way if I live in an apt building?
because I wouldnt beable to put anything on the roof.

I just gave DirecTV a call and asked them about how I would get the hdtv network feeds.
They asked me for an zip code, so I gave them the vestal zip code. She told me that they currently do not offer local channels in the area so I would automatically be able to get the NY LA hdtv feeds. And she said that even if they start offering local channels in the area, I could still keep the NY LA hdtv feeds.

Does that sound correct to anyone?

I can't verify that CSRs statement, but it sounds reasonable to me that DirecTV can now offer the network HD feeds if they (DirecTV) doesn't off them. However, the part about keeping the NY/LA feeds once they do offer HD locals sounds wrong. You'd have to decide which ones you want.

Under the old rules, DirecTV requested waivers for you. This was before HD. I got waivers for ABC, NBC, and Fox, but not CBS. Then when I discovered that our local CBS station was broadcasting digitally, but not HD. I asked if they would be up in HD for the 2004 Superbowl. They said no. Then they granted a waiver. I now get SD and HD from NY and LA for all four networks. I pay for the four networks, so the HD is included. In your case, I'd call again to verify if you can get the HD networks, and what package you need to order to get them.

Yes, I certainly will. I'd like to see if I can hear the same thing from more than one person.
When I try the zip code on the direcTV site it also says I cannot receive local channels.


Qualifying for Non-Local Network Feeds

Did you know that a limited number of DIRECTV customers may be eligible to receive non-local feeds of major broadcast networks? Eligibility is governed by federal law†, but some factors that may affect your eligibility include:

• You don't live near a metropolitan area
• You can't get any TV reception whatsoever
• You live more than 70 miles from TV station broadcast towers


I specifically asked the CSR if my OTA reception had anything to do with me receiving the feeds. She said I could try OTA if I wanted to but I can just get the feed if I want.

Personally, if DirecTV ever gets around to offering HD locals, I'll be keeping the DirecTV network versions, to get both east and west coast feeds. However, the rules can change at any time. :)

yes exactly, I'd much rather having them.

Well, if the local stations actually start broadcasting real hdtv, I would prob rather have OTA hdtv because of the quality and it would simplify things.

When the rest of our locals start broadcasting HD, I'll get my OTA working better. Right now we only have ABC, which comes in fine for me, and PBS, which is iffy.

yeah, thats the main reason I want the feeds.
I mostly watch NBC and FOX.

I'm in chicago now so I think I'm pretty HDTV-spoiled.
I get FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, WB, UPN, PAX, PBS all in hdtv OTA.

WB HD and UPN HD could be a problem here. Currently, these two stations are cable only and low power respectively. There is a UPN digital broadcast, but it uses a subchannel from Fox.

hmm, well I dont watch those channels very often so I guess its not a big deal.

my only concern was with the picture quality of DirecTV but it looks like I have no choice.

I find the PQ to be very good. Some SD channels have some compression artifacts. We are hoping that DirecTV can reduce the compression in the future.

The main reason I called the CSRs was because I wanted to know if there was a way I could get direcTV without a one year commitment since the only reason I would be getting it instead of cable would be for the HDTV feeds.

Hopefully the CSR will say the same thing when I order and put a note in my file or something.

Good luck and let us know what they say this time around. I doubt if you can get it without a 1 year commitment, especially if you order the hardware through them. They subsize it and want to make sure you stay around for awhile.

well, what if I buy my own hardware and call them to activate?
do you know if that would be a one year commitment?

because I'd prob get a modded STB so I would want to use my own hardware.
The only reason I might wanna get their hardware first is because they would install the dish for me.

I can't say for sure. But, they may want a committment if you buy the equipment elsewhere. With just a regular receiver, you could do a self install. But, you'd need to know where to install the dish etc. Personally, once you get DirecTV, the one year committment won't be a concern. Are you considering a DVR? (TiVo) If so then get the one built into the DirecTV receiver. It has dual tuners to allow recording two shows at the same time. You can even watch a previously recorded show while it is recording two. Here's the URL to the DirecTV DVR with TiVo forum. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=7

To change the subject a bit. I was wondering what antenna is being used for OTA here? I'm about 9 miles to the northeast of the towers with Crocker Hill in between. I currently have a Channel Master 3016, and have it aligned so that I can get channel 34 (ch 4 digital). Our PBS channel 46 (42) comes in but not reliably. The other two channels (7 and 8) not at all unless a rotate the antenna a bit. Which is weird because the towers are all in the same direction. I guess I'm having multipath problems. I have a preamp on this antenna. I'd hate to have to go larger. The specs on the Winegard Square Shooter SS2000 look interesting. Can someone speculate on whether this would work? Anyone know where I can buy it locally?

Enrico Ng:

Is there a reason you want Vestal, and not one of the surrounding areas like Binghamton, Johnson-City, Endwell, Chenango, etc??? Vestal does have a good mix of housing from... as far as apartment complexes go, behind the new student housing in the Vestal Plaza are two OK locations. One is called The Meadows and I am not sure about the other... but it is pink. They are both a mix of singles, couples, families and students. Straight line of sight for OTA signal may be a problem though.

The 41.99 DirecTV package includes 126 channels, no locals unless you get the waivers, 31 of them are music only channels. No box included in package price. HD programming is 10.99 for 5 stations, none free. The 5 HD Channels are Discovery HD, Universal HD, ESPN HD, HDNet and HDNet Movies. HD Box must be purchased.

TWC has a 55.95 package with 200 channels including locals, 45 of the channels are music only channels. Price includes the HD Box. HD programming is $4.95 for 5 channels on top of the 5 already included at no extra cost. Free channels are ABC, NBC, PBS, Discovery and TNT... in the HD package are inHD, inHD2, HDNet, HDNet Movies and ESPN.

Both include HBO HD & Showtime HD if you are already subscribed to them.

TW Road Runner Internet and the 55.95 Cable Pakage is 95.90... making the RR 39.95.

Both services have specials to attract new customers... or to upgrade current customers.

Well, after much searching, I got a place north of oakdale mall, indian ridge. My balcony faces the towers and I'd be able to see them if there wasnt a large tree directly outside my balcony, but I'll have to see how that goes.
I have not moved in yet, but I see that the previous tenant has a DirecTV multidish installed so if its still there when I move in, it could save me some time with installation. I don't know if directv will be taking it away later or how that works. I am thinking that I may just buy one of those modded receivers so I can get the transport streams directly.
I'll give directv a call later and ask them about the distant network hdtv again.

I dont think a tivo would work for me because I wish to beable to record transport streams to my computer. Like how the myhd works.

Welcome to the neighborhood. :) If the previous tenant is using DirecTV's Movers Program that dish will remain there. It's DirecTV's way of getting new customers. I have DirecTV DVRs and a DVD recorder. If there is something I want to keep, I burn to DVD and then if I want to edit it further I use my PC.

Whichever way you go, enjoy the area.

Welcome to the neighborhood. :) If the previous tenant is using DirecTV's Movers Program that dish will remain there. It's DirecTV's way of getting new customers. I have DirecTV DVRs and a DVD recorder. If there is something I want to keep, I burn to DVD and then if I want to edit it further I use my PC.

Whichever way you go, enjoy the area.

I did get up close to the window and saw three LNB things on the dish so I hope its the correct dish for getting hdtv feeds. Now I just have to get directv to get me access to the feeds.
If I purchase a modded receiver, will I be able to just call up directv to have it activated?

I'll report back in about a month when I move in.

You have your dvr connected to your dvd recorder? Is the connection digital?

Welcome to the neighborhood. I hear Indian Ridge is expensive but a nice place.

You can take the Digital -> Analog -> Digital route by turning your computer into a PVR. The Hauppauge TV card 150 (the "non-MCE" version) contains an onboard hardware mpeg2 encoder. It also has the IR blaster which I believe allows you to send IR signals to control cable/satellite boxes. It's currently on sale at Circuit City for $100 + tax - $40 in rebates.

yep its expensive and it looks nice. I wont actually know if its nice til I move in. but its not really expensive compared to chicago.

Anyways, the main plus to Digital TV is that its broadcast in digital so I would want to keep it digital. I already have several analog capture cards but using the myHD, I can keep it in digital without recompressing.

Thats why I was wondering about your DVR -> DVD setup. Does the DVR record the transport stream, or is the capture done in analog. When it records it to DVD, is that another analog conversion?
I'm pretty sure making a DVD directly from the transport stream would look alot better than a DVD that has been converted to analog and recompressed a few times.

The capture from DirecTV DVR to my DVD recorder is analog using either the s-video or composite connections. If I use the 2 hour mode the PQ is better than SP VHS. Obviously, not as good as a digital transfer, but I don't have a need to do that. :)

That dish should be just fine for all 3 sats, if it is aligned properly.

I use to do that, but then I started doing the all digital caps using my OTA and the myHD and it was so much better. I can't go back, I guess I'm "hdtv spoiled" :p

Good luck with your move. You should get great reception from our locals. Now if they would all go HD, it would be great. :)

BTW, if you plan to get a DirecTV DVR, either SD or HD, you might want to check out this forum.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/index.php?s=
Unless, you have already. :)

ok, I just ordered directv. I told them my zip code and they said that since they do not offer local channels in my area, I can get the LA and NY hd feeds.
Two people gave me the same story so thats a good sign.
I'll see what happens when I get it installed

That is good news. What package do you need to subscribe to get them? I suspect you will pay for the DNS at $2.25 per network, which gives you both the SD and the HD stations.

I think its just the regular total choice package.
he didnt mention anything about the $2.25

well he said I get total choice "plus" for $29.95/mo for 3mo
then after that its $45.99, but he said I could switch to the non-"plus" one for $41.99.

He didn't mention any other costs.

Although, I'm doing it alittle differently.

I'm only getting a standard receiver. I'm going to be getting a modded HD receiver and activating it later. I told the guy I wanted to use my own HD receiver and he said I would have to get a regular receiver first but it would be free.

The base package page says:
"If local channels are not available in your area, you can still enjoy TOTAL CHOICE programming for $3 less than the listed prices."
so it seems strange they would charge extra for local channels that I've already paid for.

I guess I'll find out soon enough

update:
I received a message from directv saying they wanted to move up the install date.
I called them back to tell them that wasn't ok.
I verified that I wanted the 3LNB dish. It seems that they were only going to give me the 1LNB dish but the person changed my workorder.
(thats the first bad sign I've seen)
Then I re-explained that I wanted the LA and NY HDTV local channels.
She then asked if I wanted her to submit for the waivers.
(thats the second bad sign)
I told her I spoke with two other people and they said that I could receive the HDTV feeds because I do not have local channels in my area.
She told me that they MEANT that most people get the waivers because they do not offer local tv coverage in the area.

So I guess now I will wait and see. She said it will take about a month the find out, 45days at the most. I don't move there for another 3 weeks so if I dont get the waiver I guess I may cancel everything.

I was thinking the whole no waiver thing was too good to be true. I was waiting for something like this. I guess its good I called again.

I thought the no waiver thing might be too good. I didn't say anything because I don't know what the new SHVERA rules are or how DirecTV is interpreting them. Good luck.

well I'm not sure about the "they MEANT that most people get the waivers because they do not offer local tv coverage in the area" part

I thought I read some where that one of the stations doesnt like giving waivers

That station is probably the CBS affiliate (WBNG). I had to badger them with emails before the 2004 Superbowl to get them to finally grant waivers. But, that was also before the latest rules were passed. Unfortunately, our CBS affiliate is one that doesn't yet have HD OTA.

well, I was looking at the listings and it seems that eventhough many have digital OTA, only ABC actually shows HDTV programming. Ofcourse the listings could be wrong.

The directv lady asked if I had an antenna on my roof, I said no since I live in an apartment. The FCC rules seem kinda vague for people in apartments so I don't know how that will work.

I have some trees in the way but I will probably beable to see the towers from my apartment since it is up on the hill directly across from the towers.

Your location should be good to get good analog reception. Which is bad as far as getting waivers. But, digital waivers are a bit different. You should also get good digital reception, but only ABC and PBS have HD content. You may also be able to get a signal from Elmira.

Go to www.antennaweb.org to see what is available for your address.

Yeah, I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens

I came across this the other day (http://www.*************.us/showpost.php?p=101638&postcount=7)


Another option is on the dishonest side, but a lot of people in your
situation do it: "move." (Note the quotes.) Both DirecTV and Dish Network
maintain two addresses for customers: a billing address and a service
address. This is done so that people can have service at vacation homes
and be billed at their regular homes, or so that college students can
have service at college and have the bills sent to their parents' homes,
or whatever. To "move," you call DirecTV and tell them you're moving your
receiver to an area that does have locals but you want your billing
address left as-is. Most people have a cover story (vaction home, going
to college, temporary job, whatever), but by all reports the customer
service representatives don't care. You can use the address of a friend
or relative who doesn't have or want DirecTV, the address of a business
you pull out of a phone book, or (perhaps the safest) the address of an
apartment building but with a nonexistent apartment number (apartment 407
in a 2-story apartment building, say). Of course, this will get you the
locals for the area to which you "move," which is obviously sub-optimal
if you want local news, but it's probably just fine for prime-time
network TV.


Do you know of anyone that has tried this? I suppose this is an option if I dont get the waivers. I figure if directv has no problem being dishonest with me, I shouldn't have any problem lying to them. but this method seems to be overcomplicated.

oh wonderful.
I called up directv tv to verify my installation time is all set and they are getting me the right dish and I also asked about my waivers.
The person checked and told me they were all denied because "I told them I did not want the channels". Strange, I dont remember telling them that.
so she is submitting them again.

I knew this would be too easy.

It's interesting that waivers could be denied because you never asked for them. They just forgot to submit them. Good luck in that effort.

BTW, PBS is also showing the PBS HD national feed.

yeah, but I never watch PBS.
FOX, ABC, and NBC are the networks I mostly watch and I think other than PBS, ABC is the only local one broadcasting.
I doubt I'll beable to receive FOX or NBC OTA from another city with the hills around me.

Yes, the direct TV CSR's are so fun.
It seems that the Sales people really know nothing since they said I didnt need waivers at all.
The sales support people say I need the waiver but they cant seem to remember to send them.

Is this how you got your waivers? or did you have to write letters to the stations directly?

I finally purchased an ATSC/QAM HDTV receiver set-top box. I was able to pick up PBS, ABC, and NBC as unencrypted QAM HD feeds as reported by the set-top box. I also picked up several SD feeds over QAM, all non-premiums (as I am only paying for standard cable service). I wanted to watch some full widescreen programming but it got annoying after a while because the set-top box changes channel way too slowly. I will be returning the receiver and getting a new one. Any recommendations on an ATSC & QAM tuner?

Jim

I have no experience with QAM STDs, sorry. I don't have cable of any sort. I do have the Hughes HTL-HD receiver which is for DirecTV and ATSC. I'm sure someone in the HDTV Hardware forum can help. I'm surprised that you didn't get our CBS affiliate on the cable, it should also be unencrypted. But, then they don't have any HD content yet.

so I arrived today to find that the previous owner took away the dish for some reason.

Anyways the directv people installed the dish, but he said he could not get 119 so I cant get locals even if I get my waivers.

He said that I should be alright later when the leaves fall out.

the dish is basically pointing between two trees.

I havent had a chance to try out my antenna to see what I can pick up from over here.

Well, CBSE-HD, CBSW-HD and NBCW-HD are on the 101 satellite.
See this page for more info of what channels are on what sat.
http://www.widemovies.com/dtvtransponders.html
You should still go for the waivers, if for nothing more than to get the SD versions.

I assume that you don't have a lot of options for the location of the dish since you are in an apartment. Any chance of going higher with the dish?

yeah, Im still going for the waviers.
in addition to the SDs I could get hdtv in the winter maybe.

yeah I dont have many options, basically there are two large trees infront of me. The leaves are not too dense but the outline is kinda like two overlapping circles. I beleive the dish is pointing and the open space above the middle area. The problem is that 119 is too low and the tree is blocking it. he used his meter thing and got nothing.

I'm tempted to try taking the dish off and walking around to the windows in my apartment so see if I can get anything. I wouldnt mind sticking it indoors.

I did not expect this problem because I saw that the previous tenant had a 3LNB dish so I "assumed" that he was able to get HDTV. but it is now mounted in the exact same place and looks like its angled about the same way.

anyways, I'll try my OTA antenna later when I get everything setup and see what kind of signal I get.

More fun.

I called up directv again to find out whats up.
They told me the waivers were all denied. just like last time
Then when I asked more about what was going on, they said that there's a note that said that I told them I didnt want the locals. and that it happened twice.

So they put in the waiver AGAIN.
Also, this time, the person told me I could only receive the East feed, not both east and west because of the new rules.
I seem to remember very clearly that the new rules said that I cannot receive more than two channels, nothing about more than one.

so I guess I'll just wait and see what the next CSR says.


oh, also, I tried my OTA antenna, on some days I can pick on FOX/UPN, ABC, CBS at about 30-40%. On some days, I cant get anything but analog.

Well, come 8/25 I'll be losing my west coast HD feeds, as per a letter that DirecTV sent.
Nothing in the letter mentioned the SD feeds. So I'll keep my fingers crossed.

oh so I guess its really true.

but I remember reading the SHVERA and it said

As an unserved household, you would be eligible to receive no more than two distant network affiliated signals per day for each TV network. For example, if the household is "unserved," the household could receive no more than two ABC stations, no more than two NBC stations, etc.

At the end of the answer for question 3.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/policy/shvera.doc

Anyone know a reputable OTA antenna installer in this area? Our yellow pages only reference two under "Antennas - Home", nothing about installation. And one of those is East Side Refrigeration.

I live in Conklin and have Channel Master 3020 i get great reception like 93% when hooked to my H-10 directv reciver. the problem i have is Fox and CBS not being HD. I would like to know what some of you did to get your CBS and Fox turned on your directv in HD. I tried the waiver but to they were denied.

When I first requested waivers, under the old rules, only CBS denied it. Then when I discovered that CBS had a digital signal, along with ABC, Fox , and PBS, it was before the Superbowl that year. I then sent emails to WBNG asking if they would have their HD content up by the Superbowl time. They eventually said they they wouldn't, and still don't. So I then mentioned that DirecTV was going to broadcast the network in HD and they then granted a waiver after a few more emails. That's when I totally turned off TWC.

tec319, can you get any out of area stations? What about UPN on OTA ch 10 and NBC on OTA ch 20? Maybe ch 18 from Elmira. Your reception is good because you have a starighter shot to the towers. I have Crocker Hill between me and the towers.

I get channel 20 but analog . I do get UPN in digtal its 40-2.
So when you were emailing Wbng about the waivers did you give them your Diretv account # or somthing, or do they mail you somthing to send to Directv?
What sucks is i had all of them on Diretv for years and they just shut them off.then i got this waiver thingy in the mailk saying io was denied. I was very PI(^%$^ed because submitted them in 2000 .
Basicaly i just need CBS and Fox in HD and im good to go

The rules have changed concerning waivers. In my case with CBS after the many emails. I didn't know that WBNG had granted the waiver until I called DitecTV about it and the CSR told me that those channels were now active. Sure enough they were. There's no need to give WBNG any DirecTV information, just write and email them about their lack of HD and request a waiver for DirecTV's CBS HD broadcast. Given your location in Conkin and good signals, I don't have a lot of hope for you. Maybe, if enough Binghamton area people complain, they'll get off their duff and put up HD.

Also, 40-2 is a subchannel for UPN, that will never be HD. WBPN needs to upgrade their transmitter before that happens.

Well I understand about the reception , but i find it unacceptable to block some from HD contect when they don't even offer it? whats really stupid is my SD channels on Diretv were Granted ???? I hate stupid people ya know.

Also any news on fox going to HD in our area?

Also any news on fox going to HD in our area?

I emailed them about a week ago, no reply :mad:

(Here is the Stupid responce i got!!! As if i give a crap about TWC.)

"Thank you for your interest in FOX 40 and our conversion to HDTV. WICZ-TV, FOX 40 and WBPN, UPN 8 are currently broadcast digitally over the air on DTV channel 8. The process of further converting our signal to High Definition is underway though no firm time table for this is in place.

Currently WICZ-TV and Time Warner Cable have yet to reach an agreement which would allow Time Warner Cable to carry our digital signal.

Time Warner Cable does however carry our analog signals under agreement previously approved.

We are hopeful about reaching an agreement for our digital signal, in the meantime we hope you enjoy FOX 40 and UPN 8 over the air on DTV channel 8."



Thank you for writing.


No firm time table? cmon 1 year ?10 years ???

I just talked to Joe at WBNG and he said it looks like they will be up in HD shortly like by the end of the year maybe sooner. I also talked to Steve at WICZ and said the they could be up as soon as Oct. in HD .

Well, it looks like I'll have to work on my WBNG and WICZ reception.

Hey JD , on your 34-1 is "LOST" coming through in HD for some reason the show "LOST" does not come through in HD. the football game last night was great.
I was Also told thar Dirctv has done a site inspection at WBNG so we could see our locals on the sat soon.

I haven't got into "Lost", so I can't answer your question. The football did look good. Until all of our locals are ready to go up on DirecTV, including WB and UPN and NBC, I won't give up my DNS waivers. I get all four major networks from DirecTV as well as the east coast HD versions.

just to report back, I FINALLY got my waivers from directv for the SDTV.
I'm still waiting for the HDTV.

about a week ago I called up directv again to check on whats going on and they forwarded me to their "hdtv DNS" department. I explained how they kept canceling my waiver, and stuff and asked about the status. He said they are still waiting for a response. I decided to ask about my SDTV waivers, and he asked if I ever requested it. When I said "yes" he seemed suprised but said that he is waiting for a reply on those too. I get the feeling they forgot about that and didnt put it in til last week.

He also said that almost everyone gets the SDTV waivers and most people dont get the HDTV waivers, so this should be interesting.

anyways, I finally have SDTV, still waiting on HDTV.

Congratulations. Have you tried the HD channels? They may be active and they don't know it. But, you do need to subscribe to the HD Pack to get them.

when I go to the channel, it says I have to call some #

I have to get the HD Pack? they guy on the phone said that I would get charged for each channel and if I got the hd pack then the channels would be free.

since I can only get sat. 101 because two trees are blocking 119 and 110, and there's nothing on the HD pack I really need, it would be cheaper to just pay seperately for whatever channels I can actually pick up.

though in the winter, I should beable to pick up more channels as the leaves fall off.

My account on the DirecTV website shows
09/01/05 09/30/05 Network: CBS from NYC/LA Monthly 2.25
09/01/05 09/30/05 Network: NBC from NYC/LA Monthly 2.25
09/01/05 09/30/05 Network: ABC from NYC/LA Monthly 2.25
09/01/05 09/30/05 Network: FOX from NYC/LA Monthly 2.25
09/01/05 09/30/05 TOTAL CHOICE PLUS-no locals Monthly 42.99
09/01/05 09/30/05 HD Package Monthly 10.99
09/01/05 09/30/05 DIRECTV DVR Service Fee Monthly 4.99
09/01/05 09/30/05 Network: PBS Monthly 1.50
09/01/05 09/30/05 Network: CBS HD Available w/Local or HD Pkg 0.00
09/01/05 09/30/05 Network: FOX HD Available w/Local or HD Pkg 0.00
09/01/05 09/30/05 Network: NBC HD Available w/Local or HD Pkg 0.00
09/01/05 09/30/05 Network: ABC HD Available w/Local or HD Pkg 0.00

The last four didn't mention HD pkg until the last change they made in regards to getting HD. I got the HD versions because I have the SD channels. But, then the rules changed. Since, we don't get our locals yet, then the HD pkg is the only way you can get the DirecTV HD networks after the waivers are granted. I haven't tried removing the HD pkg to see what happens to the HD networks.

heres what I see

last statement (no locals yet)
08/19/05 08/18/07 Annual Commitment 2 Years 0.00
08/27/05 09/26/05 TOTAL CHOICE PLUS-no locals Monthly 42.99
08/27/05 09/26/05 1 Year Commitment to Programming 0.00
08/09/05 Additional Receiver 2.99
08/28/05 Additional Receiver 4.99

(current activity)
08/28/2005 xxxxxxxx - Payment - CCard -$50.97 $0.00 -$50.97
08/28/2005 xxxxxxxx - Monthly Bill $0.00 $0.00 $0.00
08/28/2005 xxxxxxxx0480 TOTAL CHOICE PLUS-no locals - Charge $42.99 $0.00 $42.99
08/28/2005 xxxxxxxx4350 Additional Receiver - Charge $4.99 $0.00 $4.99
09/16/2005 xxxxxxxx0480 Distant Network Service_* - Charge $3.30 $0.00 $3.30


I can see east and west SD channels but no HD channels.
I can only receive CBSE CBSW and NBCE I think because I only get sat. 101

ofcourse in all the phone calls, they never mentioned anything about price. seems like they're making it up as they go

Hmmm. Your bill doesn't show the SD networks separately? You may have to wait for the next month's bill to see what you have. I'm also not sure what the $3.30 charge you have for Distant Network Service, unless this is the way they are doing it for new waiver subscribers. Or it is a prorated amount. I've had mine for quite some time.

BTW, all of the network SD channels, both east and west, are on the 101 satellite.

Anyway, are you satisfied with DirecTV? Regardless of their customer support. :)

Hmmm. Your bill doesn't show the SD networks separately? You may have to wait for the next month's bill to see what you have. I'm also not sure what the $3.30 charge you have for Distant Network Service, unless this is the way they are doing it for new waiver subscribers. Or it is a prorated amount. I've had mine for quite some time.

BTW, all of the network SD channels, both east and west, are on the 101 satellite.

Anyway, are you satisfied with DirecTV? Regardless of their customer support. :)

yeah, so at least I have all the SD channels.
I'm gonna have to call them up and ask about the HD ones.

"satisfied"? hmm, not exactly satisifed I guess.
well, I cant get 119 or 110 (maybe I can in the winter) but I guess thats not their fault.
I havent gotten a chance to really examine the quality because I've been having computer issues but it looks "ok", not great not too crappy.
Now that I have the networks, I guess I'm alot happier with the service, before I could pretty much only get fox and abc on my antenna.

Even if I get the hdtv waivers, I can only get CBS and NBC on 101 and I mainly watch NBC and FOX.

oh, interesting. now when I go to the directv site it says I'm being charged $9/mo instead

I guess there was a delay

$9/month would be the charge for both east and west SD feeds for all four major networks.
($2.25 each x 4). And, because of that you I believe you should get the east coast HD feeds for the nets.

well, I guess the SD and HD waivers are seperate or something. I'll have to call them up and ask.
I remember a lady telling me that I can no longer get both east and west but since I have both east and west SD, I would think the same applies to HD.
Having both east and west would be nice but because I cant get 119 or 110, I can only get CBS and NBC in HD anyways.

I used to get both east and west HD feeds, but DirecTRV sent a letter stating that they couldn't supply both any longer. I lost the west coast feeds 8/30. I still have east and west SD feeds.

I got some interesting news.
I currently have all SD locals.
I called up and asked how to get the HD locals and they said I had to get the hd package. I mentioned that I had the SD waivers and asked about the HD waivers and they said that all I would have to do is sign up for the HD package.


I signed up for the HD package online.
No locals.
I called up directv (at about 9pm). They transfered me to another person and then she said she had to call the "HDTV department" because only they can add it. After waiting 15min, she said that she has no answer and they might be closed.

I called the "HDTV department" today and the person told me that my NBC waiver was granted but the rest were denied and I can re-apply in 60 days (from 9/9). I said that I had all the SD channels. He said that actually I was denied for the SD ones too and they must have just added them all on. He said "I wont tell anyone if you dont tell anyone"

So I guess I can try again in november.
Not sure what else I can try.

I just talked to Joe at WBNG and he said it looks like they will be up in HD shortly like by the end of the year maybe sooner. I also talked to Steve at WICZ and said the they could be up as soon as Oct. in HD .

Sounds like "Joe" at WBNG was being perhaps overly optimistic.

Just sent both WBNG and WICZ a message, and got the following:

WBNG:



From Mike Calkins
Sent Friday, October 7, 2005 5:30 am
Cc
Bcc
Subject HDTV

There is no news as of now.

It is budget time again here and I have put in yet again for the HD conversion.

That’s about all I can tell you as of now.

We will see what our corporate people say

WICZ:



From View message header detailWICZ-TV Fox 40 <fox40@wicz.com>
Sent Friday, October 7, 2005 9:22 am
Cc
Bcc
Subject RE: HDTV?

Thank you for your interest in FOX 40 and our conversion to HDTV.
WICZ-TV, FOX 40 and WBPN, UPN 8 are currently broadcast digitally over
the air on DTV channel 8. The process of further converting our signal
to High Definition is underway though no firm time table for this is in
place.
Currently WICZ-TV and Time Warner Cable have yet to reach an agreement
which would allow Time Warner Cable to carry our digital signal.
Time Warner Cable does however carry our analog signals under agreement
previously approved.
We are hopeful about reaching an agreement for our digital signal, in
the meantime we hope you enjoy FOX 40 and UPN 8 over the air on DTV
channel 8.

Thank you for writing.

Looks like I don't need to be in any hurry to buy a new HDTV :mad:

What is really sad is that WBNG was the first TV station in Binghamton (as WNBF). Now they lag behind Ch 34 which when they first started had their studio at the transmission tower.

I guess I won't bother trying to get 12 and 40 just yet. OTA 34 and 46 work great.

so I just realized how stupid I am.
I just noticed that most of the stations broadcast in VHF and I've been using a UHF antenna.
So I bought a VHF antenna and now I can pick up ABC at approx 40%, looks decent.
I'm gonna get a longer cable so I can get it closer to the window.

So I can get NBC (via DirecTV DNS) and ABC (via OTA), all I need is FOX and I'll be happy

Ah ha. I didn't pick up on the fact that you may not have the right antenna. Most talk around the forum always seems to focus on UHF frequencies as being the norm. We have ch 4, 7, 8 and 42. Now once our CBS (7) and Fox (8) start HD I'll get my OTA working. Hopefully, it will just come in if they increase their power output.

What antenna did you get? Obviously, you don't need a very large one since you basically have a straight shot to the towers. I have a hill to contend with. :)

well, I have a building and trees in the way, but I think VHF should penetrate better.

I was use to UHF when I was back in chicago because they were all in UHF. of course those transmitters were like 800kW or something.

do the stations have to do anything special to get the "HD content"? does that cost them more money? or is it just the power output that they need to increase? I assume that since they are broadcasting DTV already, they have most of the equipment.

But until then, I just have to figure out a way to get them to give me the waiver.

Others here can answer that better than I can. But, I believe that the stations need to install more equipment in order to broadcast HD. Otherwise, they would all be HD now.

Maybe the station engineer can get you the waiver letter. Then you send a copy to DirecTV.

Is that what you did?
Did you send a letter or something?

Hi ALl i'm from binghamton area too.

I have two questions:

1) What happend to channel 34 ?! i have full reception but nothing is on. been like that for the pass week.

2) What is the best antenna for this area ?

I just watched alias in HD on abc yesterday with no problem.

Digital channel 34 is broadcast on ch 4 here in Binghamton, so you need a VHF capable antenna. And, based on location, a simple indoor may work just fine. Also, an ATSC capable HD tuner would need to be setup to receive ch 4 for the digital broadcast.

I'm receiving ch 34 just fine.

Digital channel 34 is broadcast on ch 4 here in Binghamton, so you need a VHF capable antenna. And, based on location, a simple indoor may work just fine. Also, an ATSC capable HD tuner would need to be setup to receive ch 4 for the digital broadcast.

I'm receiving ch 34 just fine.

I checked again last night and it worked.

But the previous days i had full reception and dead channel.

With the stealth antenna i'm able to get wolf fox in HD which has nice quality


In total i get 4 HD channels


I am using the dignal AMP it makes a big difference.

You must be on the south side of Bighamton on a hill to get WOLF Fox out of Hazelton PA, right? I see that their digital channel assignment is ch 45. Where I'm located, I doubt I can get them.

I wish TWC carried CBS and FOX In HD Im sick of waiting :(


why do all the ""REGULAR" HBO SHOWTIME ect Channels look way better than
WBNG tv's blurry-vison :) ??????

Maybe the station engineer can get you the waiver letter. Then you send a copy to DirecTV.

How would you suggest I do this? Do you think emails would be effective?
or do I need written letters? or phone calls?

I remember reading somewhere in this thread that someone spoke to a FOX engineer and he said that FOX basically has no plans for HDTV

I tried the DNS checker thing on DirecTV and it says I have "Grade A" signals for CBS, ABC, FOX and "Grade B" for NBC. I guess thats why I got the NBC waiver.

Emails can get lost, an actual letter may be more effective along with phone calls. And with any emails send them "return receipt" so you can see that they at least saw it.

If in fact our Fox affiliate doesn't go HD, then a letter to the FCC might be in order.