Would someone mind checking what my chances of HD reception are? I'm out in Sultan, the nearest intersection is Gohr Rd and North Park Dr. Thanks!

Unfortunately for you the aptly-named High Rock hill/mtn (1200+ feet) stands between you and QA hill towers as well as Capitol Hill towers. You do have a clear shot at CH 13 in Bremerton but the other major stations look rather unlikely. You could get lucky and pick up reflected signals but they can be quite unreliable over time.

Unfortunately for you the aptly-named High Rock hill/mtn (1200+ feet) stands between you and QA hill towers as well as Capitol Hill towers. You do have a clear shot at CH 13 in Bremerton but the other major stations look rather unlikely. You could get lucky and pick up reflected signals but they can be quite unreliable over time.

Thanks for the info. Looks like we'll be waiting a few more months before we can get rid of Comcast.

Does anybody know if the current Seattle DTV channel assignments are going to stick? Have any stations made it known if they plan to convert their analog channel assignment to digital and dump their temporary DTV channel assignment at the end of the transition period? Seems like many of the VHF stations are better off with a VHF channel (farther reach) than their current UHF DTV assignment.

Seems like many of the VHF stations are better off with a VHF channel (farther reach) than their current UHF DTV assignment.

They should want to, but my understanding is that the overall plan to require only DTV broadcast after Feb 17, 2009 is coupled with the broadcasters giving back the VHF frequency assignments on that date, which the government will auction off for $10B to wireless carriers, which is why it's part of the "Deficit Reduction Act of 2005".

Apparently this law was written by people who a) didn't know there is such a thing as an antenna or b) live in places with no hills, where UHF broadcast works just fine.

Does anybody know if the current Seattle DTV channel assignments are going to stick? Have any stations made it known if they plan to convert their analog channel assignment to digital and dump their temporary DTV channel assignment at the end of the transition period? Seems like many of the VHF stations are better off with a VHF channel (farther reach) than their current UHF DTV assignment.

According to the FCC document for Round 2 of DT assignments (see my post from December http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6783607#post6783607 ) a few stations are asking to return to VHF:

Ch 13 back from 18
Ch 11 back from 36
Ch 9 back from 41

These are not yet final but will most likely be granted. Fortunatley for some, their present UHF antenna will pick up the high-VHF band stations without having to do anything. So we will have to wait and see on a case-by-case basis if our antennas need to be changed out or not.

I recorded Cast Away and Terminator 3 off the air recently and had persistent A/V sync problems... sound was off by less than a second.

I recorded the shows on my computer using a Fusion5 HD tuner card. (It has a "5th generation" LG tuner on it, but I don't know the specific chip.)

Since it's a computer recording, and a new toy, I figured the computer might be to blame for the sync problem. It's recording the transport stream, not digitizing, but still... So tonight during T3 I turned on my old Samsung 151 OTA box and the sync problem was there too on live TV... so it's not the recording method at fault.

Am I crazy, unlucky with tuner choices, or is there really a problem with the KIRO broadcast?

That location is a low spot and there are high hills to the SW that block the signal. It does not look good.

quarque,
Thanks for checking! :)

I recorded Cast Away and Terminator 3 off the air recently and had persistent A/V sync problems... sound was off by less than a second.

I recorded the shows on my computer using a Fusion5 HD tuner card. (It has a "5th generation" LG tuner on it, but I don't know the specific chip.)

Since it's a computer recording, and a new toy, I figured the computer might be to blame for the sync problem. It's recording the transport stream, not digitizing, but still... So tonight during T3 I turned on my old Samsung 151 OTA box and the sync problem was there too on live TV... so it's not the recording method at fault.

Am I crazy, unlucky with tuner choices, or is there really a problem with the KIRO broadcast?
I think the 3rd. Same problem with an LG and a Panny tuner as well.

I'm getting the Olympics just fine OTA from our rooftop antenna on our 13 story building (4th & Vine just SE of lower Queene Anne). Channel 4 however, simply won't come in ever since just before the Olympics started. I was able to watch the Superbowl just fine, but lately 4 won't even go five or ten seconds without breaking up, most of the time not even showing a picture.

4's always been the worst of the 3 network channels for me, but I've never seen it this bad. I thought it may have been the wind storm we had recently messing with our antenna, but other tenants in the bulding say the 4 analog reception is still great, and hasn't changed a bit.

7 still comes in, although has problems more often than it used to. I just wish I could get 4 and 7 as solid as I do 5. I really don't get it, I have an unobstructed view of all 3 of the network transmitters from my apt. Thank God the Olympics are on NBC! :)

As for the aspect ratio flicking back and forth, yes, I have noticed that a bit recently too. I hope most of these problems are just HD growing pains that will be worked out soon, otherwise HDTV will not be what I expected it would. I'm not about to soak scads of money into basic cable, and the extra it takes to watch it in Hi Def, just to get better reception, when I live so close to the transmitters.

Not all is good at close range either guys. :(

I'm getting the Olympics just fine OTA from our rooftop antenna on our 13 story building (4th & Vine just SE of lower Queene Anne). Channel 4 however, simply won't come in ever since just before the Olympics started. I was able to watch the Superbowl just fine, but lately 4 won't even go five or ten seconds without breaking up, most of the time not even showing a picture.

4's always been the worst of the 3 network channels for me, but I've never seen it this bad. I thought it may have been the wind storm we had recently messing with our antenna, but other tenants in the bulding say the 4 analog reception is still great, and hasn't changed a bit.

7 still comes in, although has problems more often than it used to. I just wish I could get 4 and 7 as solid as I do 5. I really don't get it, I have an unobstructed view of all 3 of the network transmitters from my apt. Thank God the Olympics are on NBC! :)

As for the aspect ratio flicking back and forth, yes, I have noticed that a bit recently too. I hope most of these problems are just HD growing pains that will be worked out soon, otherwise HDTV will not be what I expected it would. I'm not about to soak scads of money into basic cable, and the extra it takes to watch it in Hi Def, just to get better reception, when I live so close to the transmitters.

Not all is good at close range either guys. :(

HiDef
Sounds like somethings up with your distribution system in the building. Noise can wipe out a good signal. The cause could be anyone of dozens of bad/loose connections, bad but not dead amplifier, open unterminated wiring, staple through a cable allowing ingress, etc. The only way to check it is with a meter.
Dan

HiDef
Sounds like somethings up with your distribution system in the building. Noise can wipe out a good signal. The cause could be anyone of dozens of bad/loose connections, bad but not dead amplifier, open unterminated wiring, staple through a cable allowing ingress, etc. The only way to check it is with a meter.
DanIt's hard to imagine anything like that could have happened between the Superbowl and the Olympics, and it still doesn't explain why 5 is always rock solid by comparison.

One thing's for sure though, the managment of our building really doesn't care.

I have no OTA recption right now of KING-DT, ch 5.1/48.1 and 5.2/48.2.

I have never had problems with KING-DT before.

Anyone else having problems?



My reception for King 5 has dropped also. It is in the 55% range or so on my meter and drops out once in a while. Naturally it dropped out a couple times during the last few laps of the Daytona 500. Kong and the rest of the locals are all very solid. I too wonder if King-DT has changed something as of late. Of course this might give me the excuse to try a 4228 antenna.

It's hard to imagine anything like that could have happened between the Superbowl and the Olympics, and it still doesn't explain why 5 is always rock solid by comparison.

One thing's for sure though, the managment of our building really doesn't care.

Hi Def
Each channel transmits with different power, from different locations, in different patterns, from different antennas, at different heights, on different frequencies, which have different wavelengths (size, usually measured in 1/4 wavelengths, varies between 4" to 8", so it doesn't take much change of anything to cause problems.), which bounce off objects differently.
Then, just to make it interesting, throw in 2nd, 3rd, 4th order harmonics of each channel, for more distortion, and the fact you almost glow in the dark from all the power hitting your antenna, and the standing waves rolling down QA Hill.......
And, whatcha bet your antenna is not exactly new, sitting on a building top where seagulls and crows love to dump on the aluminum parts causing corrosion (some sat dishes I've seen are absolutely covered white and an inch thick or more !!!) and their body weight bends the antenna elements.......
And we haven't even mentioned the problems in a distribution system!
Other than that..... ;)
Dan

My reception for King 5 has dropped also. It is in the 55% range or so on my meter and drops out once in a while. Naturally it dropped out a couple times during the last few laps of the Daytona 500. Kong and the rest of the locals are all very solid. I too wonder if King-DT has changed something as of late. Of course this might give me the excuse to try a 4228 antenna.

wezar
Broke out the meter, still seeing same levels and waveshape in FedWay tonight, haven't seen any changes. Been watching the Olympics, no problems.
With all the windstorms we've had, could be some trees in the way have changed enough to cause your problems.
Dan

I lost reception of KONG I think a day or two ago, is something wrong with the station? KING works fine.

My reception for King 5 has dropped also. It is in the 55% range or so on my meter and drops out once in a while. Naturally it dropped out a couple times during the last few laps of the Daytona 500. Kong and the rest of the locals are all very solid. I too wonder if King-DT has changed something as of late. Of course this might give me the excuse to try a 4228 antenna.
I readjusted my antenna this afternoon, giving up Tiger Mtn. (never watch anything from there) to favor Gold Mtn. (KCPQ-DT started having breakups a few weeks ago). KCPQ came up 10 points as measured on my HD DirecTiVo's.

The changes also improved KING-DT (10 points) and KOMO-DT (8 points). The Capitol Hill channels did not change (as I expected).

I am guessing some of our recent winds rotated things slightly, even though mounting bolts for the mast and antenna were all still tight.

I saw a few quick breakups on the NBC Olympics tonight, and no problems at all for two hours on KCPQ. Earlier this week I would lose KING-DT completely for periods of time.

Has anyone had any issues with KCTS and their HD broadcasts coming in on 9-3, instead of 9-5, for about a minute and then switching to actual 9-3 (SD) programming. Then 9-5 appears on the dial, only to come up with the dreaded NO SIGNAL. When I wait a moment and switch back to 9-3 it is HD again for a moment before repeating this cycle. I used to receive all HD on 9-5 (at the times it was offered). But now I get nothing on 9-5. Has KCTS done something to their signal. I believe this started around the time that 9-3 was introduced as their "Create" station.
thanks

wezar
Broke out the meter, still seeing same levels and waveshape in FedWay tonight, haven't seen any changes. Been watching the Olympics, no problems.
With all the windstorms we've had, could be some trees in the way have changed enough to cause your problems.
Dan



Thanks Dan and Dave for the replys, Its really odd. All the locals are way up on my Hd-300 meter and even when I try my best to tweak the rotor for King-DT its at best two thirds up the scale. You may be right that its just some trees in the way as time goes on. I just might have to go raise the mast again to see if it helps.

Each channel transmits with different power, from different locations, in different patterns, from different antennas, at different heights, on different frequencies, which have different wavelengths (size, usually measured in 1/4 wavelengths, varies between 4" to 8", so it doesn't take much change of anything to cause problems.), which bounce off objects differently.OK, sure there are many variables that we laymen do not fully understand, but I have spoken a while ago to each of the engineers from all 3 network affiliates. I was under the impression the power at least (wattage of transmitters) was alwyas at the max allowable for each station.

It's almost like you are saying some of these things either have not been worked out yet by the engineers, or that they are changing things from time to time that some of us thought were already tuned to their max.

To tell you the truth, sometimes I wonder if there is some negotiating going on between the stations to agree to certain wattages during big events like the Olympics, although I too have noticed some, but very minor, drop in 5's reception.

Even when 5 is only 5 bars on the signal meter, and cuts out for a second or so every half hour, it is still rock solid by comparison to 4 and 7, even though they show 6 bars each.

OK, sure there are many variables that we laymen do not fully understand, but I have spoken a while ago to each of the engineers from all 3 network affiliates. I was under the impression the power at least (wattage of transmitters) was alwyas at the max allowable for each station.

It's almost like you are saying some of these things either have not been worked out yet by the engineers, or that they are changing things from time to time that some of us thought were already tuned to their max.

To tell you the truth, sometimes I wonder if there is some negotiating going on between the stations to agree to certain wattages during big events like the Olympics, although I too have noticed some, but very minor, drop in 5's reception.

Even when 5 is only 5 bars on the signal meter, and cuts out for a second or so every half hour, it is still rock solid by comparison to 4 and 7, even though they show 6 bars each.

I've heard & seen some Conspiracy Theories but this one takes the prize!

No, stations do not adjust their power output for special events or for any other reason. They get a license from the FCC to broadcast at a particular frequency and power. Period. Unless there is an equipment problem this does not change for any reason. They are not allowed to deviate because of the aforementioned license.

Everyone has trouble with DT reception at some time. And they always want to find someone to blame. Unfortunately there is no one to blame. As Dan pointed out, there are a hundred things affecting what you see on your screen. Some of us are just luckier than others to have decent reception. And it is mostly luck. You put up your antenna and cross your fingers. Then maybe try your second or third antenna. Then maybe your fourth or fifth location. Then you give up and get cable. Or, you get lucky. I was pretty lucky until recently and had to move my antenna about 2 feet to the other corner of my chimney. Now it is working fine again. A lot has to do with your location. Anything within a couple miles of QA hill is a total crap shoot.

Even when 5 is only 5 bars on the signal meter, and cuts out for a second or so every half hour, it is still rock solid by comparison to 4 and 7, even though they show 6 bars each.[/QUOTE]

HiDef
Your "strength indicator", ain't. It's signal to noise ratio. It is NOT showing how much signal you're getting, but how much signal versus how much noise. If ch5 is cutting out once in a while, that's a clue you're right on the ragged edge of minimum signal requirements. It's also why the number of bars on any given channel is not relative to picture stability. Noise in the digital world is like trying to talk on the cell phone next to the freeway downtown. You can't hear the voice for the roar.


And, what quarque said!
Whatever the cause of your difficulties, it's not from the stations playing with power levels.
Dan

Thanks Dan and Dave for the replys, Its really odd. All the locals are way up on my Hd-300 meter and even when I try my best to tweak the rotor for King-DT its at best two thirds up the scale. You may be right that its just some trees in the way as time goes on. I just might have to go raise the mast again to see if it helps.

wezar
Or try another location a foot or so away. And try lowering it, too.
Dan

I lost reception of KONG I think a day or two ago, is something wrong with the station? KING works fine.


Carmichael
As funny as this may sound, did you try calling the station?
If there is a problem, the front desk will know about it already! I've even heard a message on the after hours recorded message when it has happened.

KONG & KING are on the same tower, but separate everything else. Their actual frequencies are about 483mhz for KONG and about 675mhz for KING, big difference. With all the wind storms lately, very possible your antenna got damaged enough or something in the reception path changed enough to affect one and not the other.
Dan

None the less the fact remains that although all 3 are in the same direction, close proximity, and each unobstructed in view, even through all the fluctuatins, 5 is always by far the best.

You also did say more bars on the graph is a step in the right direction, yet I am getting the best reception with the station that has the least bars.

Suffice it to say I am skeptical that 4 and 7 are doing things as well as 5 is. I see no reason this would change even if we had a better rooftop antenna.

None the less the fact remains that although all 3 are in the same direction, close proximity, and each unobstructed in view, even through all the fluctuatins, 5 is always by far the best.

You also did say more bars on the graph is a step in the right direction, yet I am getting the best reception with the station that has the least bars.

Suffice it to say I am skeptical that 4 and 7 are doing things as well as 5 is. I see no reason this would change even if we had a better rooftop antenna.

HiDef

Sadly, I see the reasons you're having trouble, everyday, on the job. It's obviously not real to you, but they all do add up, and any one can have major impact.

You may not need an antenna. Something there does need some help, though.

In all my installs and surveys, including one just 6 hours ago, all came in fine.
At my home, right now, it looks fine on my analyzer and TV as well.

When you find the trouble, let us know. Always enjoy a good mystery!

Dan

When you find the trouble, let us know. Always enjoy a good mystery!Hey Dan, no disrespect intended. All this does get rather frustrating, and maybe in my naievity I go looking too hard for answers that maybe just aren't there.

I took a look at our antenna as best I could by naked eye the other day, and was much less than impressed with what I saw. I will try to find some binocs to borrow maybe, so I can be sure of what I'm seeing and what direction it's aimed.

After that I would like to discuss with you by PM maybe what it looks like, where it's aimed, and what you charge for your services. I have disscused this with some of the more active tenants on our building's tenant council, and they seemed very receptive to it, but the management would have to agree of course.

Most of our tenants are either on cable or using the antenna for analog, so if we do put up a new one, it would have to work for both analog and digital.

We have suspected for some time that the antenna we have is outdated and poorly mounted, moving easily with wind. Frankly I am surprised that even modern antennas still use simple U bolts.

BTW, are you the one Magnolia Hi Fi calls "Dan the Antenna Man?" If so, I've talked to you on the phone a while ago.

Hey Dan, no disrespect intended. All this does get rather frustrating, and maybe in my naievity I go looking too hard for answers that maybe just aren't there.

I took a look at our antenna as best I could by naked eye the other day, and was much less than impressed with what I saw. I will try to find some binocs to borrow maybe, so I can be sure of what I'm seeing and what direction it's aimed.

After that I would like to discuss with you by PM maybe what it looks like, where it's aimed, and what you charge for your services. I have disscused this with some of the more active tenants on our building's tenant council, and they seemed very receptive to it, but the management would have to agree of course.

Most of our tenants are either on cable or using the antenna for analog, so if we do put up a new one, it would have to work for both analog and digital.

We have suspected for some time that the antenna we have is outdated and poorly mounted, moving easily with wind. Frankly I am surprised that even modern antennas still use simple U bolts.

BTW, are you the one Magnolia Hi Fi calls "Dan the Antenna Man?" If so, I've talked to you on the phone a while ago.

HiDef
No disrespect taken. I understand the frustration. It's even hard to understand when you DO know what's going on, I know!
Yes, the Mag people gave me the nickname years ago. Sorry I don't remember the conversation, talk to lots of people.
One of the problems trying to do both analog and HD is that each has different needs. Gets tougher through a distribution system. Also, where you're located, it gets more complicated for analog.
I'll send you details on helping with the problem in an e-mail.
Dan

My hat is off to King5. I watched about 75% of the primetime coverage of the Olympics and there was hardly a hiccup in the whole 2 weeks. It is really nice when all this technology works.

However, Ch 9 DT was extremely pixelated on Saturday - all the SD and HD subs at the same time. I haven't been back since but I hope they fixed it.

I'll add to my kudos to King5. The Olympics were simply amazing in Hi Def. This is what Hi Def was made for, and I feel the both King 5 and NBC did a fantastic job of bringing the Olympics into our home.

I thought that when they would superimpose the skiers going down the hill on the donwhill runs were simply amazing. The slow mos were flawless. I'm running out of adjectives, so I'll leave it at that.

I wonder if, when the ratings came out, whether they can count the numbers of people watching OTA? I think that since the advent of Hi Def OTA is one of the greatest things since sliced bread!

Does anyone pick up OTA HDTV in Snoqualmie Washington? Antenna Web indicates Snoqualmie should be able to pick up a few, but none of the major networks. If you live in Snoqualmie, what stations have you been able to pick up?

* yellow - uhf KWDK-DT 42 DAY TACOMA WA TBD 229° 4.7 42
* yellow - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 i BELLEVUE WA 229° 4.7 32
* red - uhf KWOG-DT 51.1 IND BELLEVUE WA 229° 4.7 50
* violet - uhf KHCV-DT 44.1 SAH SEATTLE WA 229° 4.7 44

My hat is off to King5. I watched about 75% of the primetime coverage of the Olympics and there was hardly a hiccup in the whole 2 weeks. It is really nice when all this technology works.

However, Ch 9 DT was extremely pixelated on Saturday - all the SD and HD subs at the same time. I haven't been back since but I hope they fixed it.
Keep in mind that NBC had between 10 - 20 hours time to prepare their show. That's completely different to live coverage, where the risk of hiccups is much higher. So everything but good quality would have been pretty annoying under these circumstances.

Does anyone pick up OTA HDTV in Snoqualmie Washington? Antenna Web indicates Snoqualmie should be able to pick up a few, but none of the major networks. If you live in Snoqualmie, what stations have you been able to pick up?

* yellow - uhf KWDK-DT 42 DAY TACOMA WA TBD 229° 4.7 42
* yellow - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 i BELLEVUE WA 229° 4.7 32
* red - uhf KWOG-DT 51.1 IND BELLEVUE WA 229° 4.7 50
* violet - uhf KHCV-DT 44.1 SAH SEATTLE WA 229° 4.7 44

Snyder81
What's your cross streets? I'll look it up and compare to surveys done there.
Dan

Much better coverage than the Summer Olympics anyway (HD program). Problem is you need to be really disciplined, tuning out the results spewing from internet and evening news, to enjoy it. Can't wait to see the World Cup in HD.

Has anyone had any issues with KCTS and their HD broadcasts coming in on 9-3, instead of 9-5, for about a minute and then switching to actual 9-3 (SD) programming. Then 9-5 appears on the dial, only to come up with the dreaded NO SIGNAL. When I wait a moment and switch back to 9-3 it is HD again for a moment before repeating this cycle. I used to receive all HD on 9-5 (at the times it was offered). But now I get nothing on 9-5. Has KCTS done something to their signal. I believe this started around the time that 9-3 was introduced as their "Create" station.
thanks
reposting this because it may have gone unnoticed earlier...if the answer is unknown, then sorry for the repost.

Has anyone had any issues with KCTS and their HD broadcasts coming in on 9-3, instead of 9-5, for about a minute and then switching to actual 9-3 (SD) programming. Then 9-5 appears on the dial, only to come up with the dreaded NO SIGNAL. When I wait a moment and switch back to 9-3 it is HD again for a moment before repeating this cycle. I used to receive all HD on 9-5 (at the times it was offered). But now I get nothing on 9-5. Has KCTS done something to their signal. I believe this started around the time that 9-3 was introduced as their "Create" station.
thanks
reposting this because it may have gone unnoticed earlier...if the answer is unknown, then sorry for the repost.
I have not seen this myself but it reminds me of some problems a couple years ago that were similar. The solution then was to wipe the receiver and rescan all the channels from scratch. Apparently some receivers can get into a funk like this and a complete rescan straightens it out. If you have no menu for deleting all channels you can disconnect the antenna and perform a scan so that it comes up with "nothing". Then connect the antenna and do another scan.

Keep in mind that NBC had between 10 - 20 hours time to prepare their show. That's completely different to live coverage, where the risk of hiccups is much higher. So everything but good quality would have been pretty annoying under these circumstances.
Good point, but I was more concerned about the local portion of the signal stream than the network. I hope Sunday Night Football comes out this well.

Does anyone pick up OTA HDTV in Snoqualmie Washington? Antenna Web indicates Snoqualmie should be able to pick up a few, but none of the major networks. If you live in Snoqualmie, what stations have you been able to pick up?

* yellow - uhf KWDK-DT 42 DAY TACOMA WA TBD 229° 4.7 42
* yellow - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 i BELLEVUE WA 229° 4.7 32
* red - uhf KWOG-DT 51.1 IND BELLEVUE WA 229° 4.7 50
* violet - uhf KHCV-DT 44.1 SAH SEATTLE WA 229° 4.7 44
Unless you're up in the hills outside of town you don't have much of a chance at the Seattle stations. Mitchell Hill is the major problem until you get north/west of town. Even then there are lots of other hills to get in the way. As Dan said, with some cross streets given we can give a more definitive answer.

Anyone know why KING is showing the Apprentice instead of Scrubs tonight?

Scrubs was on from 9-10. I'm watching it right now off the DVR!

Was the PQ on NCIS very soft (bad) yesterday for others? Has KIRO started multicasting or something? NCIS used to have good PQ (but bad color).

I thought that when they would superimpose the skiers going down the hill on the donwhill runs were simply amazing. The slow mos were flawless.Yes the Olympics were truly stunning in High Def, many of us no doubt seeing them for the first time this way.

You never really get to see how amazing their superimpose and whopping 500 FPS :eek: slow mo look until you see it in Hi Def!

A small boo for NBC playing up the Shani Davis/Chad Hedricks spat too much, but otherwise a very nice job of presentation, with very good art and stat graphic overlays.

The piece Tom Brokaw did on Vernon Baker the last day was awe inspiring and well deserved. I still have images of those alps in Hi Def burning in my mind too.

Yay to Apolo, finally got his gold! :) Hope to see him at Vancouver in 2010!

Does anyone know which local affiliate will end up being the new "CW" broadcaster? Will it be UPN (11) or WB (22)?

I believe I read for our market it's UPN 11 becoming the CW network.

Ah, that would be nice. I get UPN OTA but not WB. There are a bunch of shows (that I hope continue on the new channel) I'd like to record in HD (I have a HR10-250 from DirecTV)

jcricket,

Both WB-22 and UPN-11 transmit from the same site on Capitol Hill, along with KCTS (PBS)-9. Maybe some minor adjustments or location changes for your antenna might help.

Then again, you have likely already tried.

I have lost OTA reception of King-DT at my place in Bellevue. Is it time to go look at my installation or is King-DT off the air?

Other locals are still fine with great signal strength. I noticed King losing strength at my place in the last month or so but could adjust the antenna via rotator to maintain a 60% or so signal strength on my Sony Hd300.

They have been off air since early this morning Seattle time.

They have been off air since early this morning Seattle time.


Thanks I appreciate the reply.

Anyone know why King hd is off the air? Tried calling but just get the recordings after 5pm

Anyone know why King hd is off the air? Tried calling but just get the recordings after 5pm

read above^

Looks like no "Las Vegas" in HD tonight for anyone....

Dr Crawn,
I know it is off the air.
My question was does anyone know why?
Upgrade?
Failure?
Terrorist attack?
Komo Prank?
Belo cut the budget?

read above^

Looks like no "Las Vegas" in HD tonight for anyone....

Just got a hold of the KING engineer, said they've been working on it all day, hope to have it back up in the AM. KONG was also down for a while, but it's back up.
Dan

Glad it's KING and not me. Freaked me out when I turned on my receiver tonight. Thought it might have been a receiver problem, but when it affected my other HD receiver and was only that channel figured it wasn't my equipment. Hopefully they'll fix it soon.

They just popped back on....after some brief pixelating, they have settled down and have good signal strength.
ENJOY!

I raised my antenna mast about a foot and a half and improved my reception across the board. King-DT went up over 50%. Nice solid signal in the good range on the Sony Hd300 meter.

Still might try a 4221 just to see how a wider beam antenna would work compared to my 4248.

Dr Crawn,
I know it is off the air.
My question was does anyone know why?
Upgrade?
Failure?
Terrorist attack?
Komo Prank?
Belo cut the budget?

Sorry, I thought you maybe missed the posts above. Nice to see it's back on.

Dr Crawn,
I know it is off the air.
My question was does anyone know why?
Upgrade?
Failure?
Terrorist attack?
Komo Prank?
Belo cut the budget?LOL, and I get accused of conjuring "conspiracy theories" when I so much as make a noob specualtion about transmitter wattages during big events like the Olympics! :D

Thank God 5 is back on now, I was beginning to think I was losing all my HD channels one by one.

Still having problems with 4 though. When it does decide to stay tuned in, I have to sit in one spot and not move or it breaks up. It won't even let me raise my arm to use the remote! Talk abut the makings for a conspiracy theory joke,..."Stay tuned, or we'll mess with your reception!" Wife says, "Why don't you just leave it on that channel dear, it seems to work best that way." :D

Seems to be working right now though, without all the finickiness. Then again it's Saturday, much less interference in my area on weekends. It's a day to day, tweak the antenna cable thing. Sometimes I think I'm eventually going to wear the plastic sheath off the cable from moving it so much! :eek:

As much as I hate living downtown though, I'm sure there are much worse places that can't get ANY OTA HD reception. I feel for ya guys, then again, satellite is not an option for me. ;)

I could be wrong, but TitanTV is showing KING-DT doing Saturday Night Live in HD tonight at 11:30. I don't remember TitanTV ever showing HD before for SNL... Maybe KING-DT was down the last day while being upgraded. Stay tuned :)

I could be wrong, but TitanTV is showing KING-DT doing Saturday Night Live in HD tonight at 11:30. I don't remember TitanTV ever showing HD before for SNL... Maybe KING-DT was down the last day while being upgraded. Stay tuned :)I think you're right, it showed on their digital page before, but not specifically HD. When I watched it before on KING-DT it was a small inset widescreen picture if memory serves, but not HD.

Thanks for the heads up, I use Titan a lot too, but I hadn't noticed this apparent change. Hope the show is good.

How long has 662 been TNT HD? I didn't see any 'messages from Comcast' about it, but there was a promo on Friday night for it. Hopefully the Law & Orders won't be stretched, it looks like most of the stuff is.

What is the story for SNL HD? The first week it aired I called King and left them a message saying that they needed to flip the switch or whatever they do to enable it. Now, six months later I still see the 16X9 image being transmitted via 4:3 while makes for a lot of black space all the while people on SNL joke about being in hi def.

What is the story for SNL HD? The first week it aired I called King and left them a message saying that they needed to flip the switch or whatever they do to enable it. Now, six months later I still see the 16X9 image being transmitted via 4:3 while makes for a lot of black space all the while people on SNL joke about being in hi def.Yup, it's still a small 16:9 picture even tonight, so what you said makes sense. It's like watching commercials instead of a show. :rolleyes:

What is the story for SNL HD? The first week it aired I called King and left them a message saying that they needed to flip the switch or whatever they do to enable it. Now, six months later I still see the 16X9 image being transmitted via 4:3 while makes for a lot of black space all the while people on SNL joke about being in hi def.

Well no SNL in HD...too bad.

The story is that KING does not show the West Coast feed from NBC at 11:30 (PST), they record the EST showing 3 hours earlier and then play back that recording at 11:35 our time. They do not have the ability to record SNL in HD at this time.

Well you say why don't they just pass through the later West Coast feed at 11:30 in HD? Because these stations make all their money from crappy local news that runs to 11:35 and they are unwilling to cut 5 minutes off their news broadcast in order to "pass through" the 11:30 HD showing.

So until KING can record SNL in HD during the early showing at 11:30 EST, we ain't getting SNL in HD out here.

I can get channel 4 ( Komo) one day and then no signal the next ( like today)...yesterday it was channel 7 which is coming in fine today... driving me nuts...I have been up to the roof a dozen times tweaking the direction to no avail... I have a Antennas Direct DB4 Multi-Directional HDTV Antenna (DB4) ... will a pre-amp help me with this occasional signal loss?

I can get channel 4 ( Komo) one day and then no signal the next ( like today)...yesterday it was channel 7 which is coming in fine today... driving me nuts...I have been up to the roof a dozen times tweaking the direction to no avail... I have a Antennas Direct DB4 Multi-Directional HDTV Antenna (DB4) ... will a pre-amp help me with this occasional signal loss?

david4455
Just a thought. Did you install the balun like it's pictured on the website?
http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB4_HDTV_antenna.html
I find they don't seal well, and when they hang upside down, the water will run in and then short it out. Replace the balun, and mount it so it's the other way, with the cable going up and over. Of course, use the rubber boot that comes with the balun to seal the cable side. I use electrical tape wrapped tightly around the balun and boot, and then up the cable a few inches. That should keep it dry.
Make sure you don't have the two wires on the balun twisted, and that the connecting rods between the bow-ties don't touch the main antenna boom or each other.
Aiming is not that big a deal with that antenna, from where you are, as long as it's pointed towards Seattle.
It could also be the trees you mentioned before.
I don't think you have a weak signal, just that it's ugly (not a flat waveshape, which confuses the decoder). Trees will chop it up, and when they move around in the wind, even a little, it's like a big moving signal block. It can cause huge changes in the signal. Try the other stuff, first.
Dan.

How long has 662 been TNT HD? I didn't see any 'messages from Comcast' about it, but there was a promo on Friday night for it. Hopefully the Law & Orders won't be stretched, it looks like most of the stuff is.

Happened about a week ago. Also same thing on satellite, ch75.
Dan

david4455
Just a thought. Did you install the balun like it's pictured on the website?
http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB4_HDTV_antenna.html
I find they don't seal well, and when they hang upside down, the water will run in and then short it out. Replace the balun, and mount it so it's the other way, with the cable going up and over. Of course, use the rubber boot that comes with the balun to seal the cable side. I use electrical tape wrapped tightly around the balun and boot, and then up the cable a few inches. That should keep it dry.
Make sure you don't have the two wires on the balun twisted, and that the connecting rods between the bow-ties don't touch the main antenna boom or each other.
Aiming is not that big a deal with that antenna, from where you are, as long as it's pointed towards Seattle.
It could also be the trees you mentioned before.
I don't think you have a weak signal, just that it's ugly (not a flat waveshape, which confuses the decoder). Trees will chop it up, and when they move around in the wind, even a little, it's like a big moving signal block. It can cause huge changes in the signal. Try the other stuff, first.
Dan.

Thanks Dan....will change change the balun as you suggest...my cable is pretty long from the antenna to the TV ( over 75 feet) so I wonder if a pre-amp still might be a good idea?

I have become the proud owner of a second ChannelMaster 4228. Can two of these be ganged up to create a 16-bay antenna? Is it worth doing? Can you just mix the two outputs, or do you need to join the antenna grid itself?

I get strong signal on most channels but I'm shooting through some fir trees about 200' away so I'm probably suffering from some severe multipath. Tweaking the antenna usually lets me pull in a particular station but the key word is tweaking. KOMO, KING, and KCTS have good days and bad for me. KIRO, KSTW, KCPQ, and KTWB usually come in fine at all times.

Thanks Dan....will change change the balun as you suggest...my cable is pretty long from the antenna to the TV ( over 75 feet) so I wonder if a pre-amp still might be a good idea?

Dave
You're not loosing that much in 75ft. I still would try the other stuff first. You should have a fair amount to work with. If you try one, a 7775 Channel Master is the way to go, with about 10db of attenuation before the receiver. RatShack has an adjustable one, set it for about half way. The preamp may be too much, that's why you need to drop it down. However, you want to use a quality one, so you don't just increase your noise, too. In other words, don't use a 10 or 15 db cheap preamp to split the difference.
Dan

I have become the proud owner of a second ChannelMaster 4228. Can two of these be ganged up to create a 16-bay antenna? Is it worth doing? Can you just mix the two outputs, or do you need to join the antenna grid itself?

I get strong signal on most channels but I'm shooting through some fir trees about 200' away so I'm probably suffering from some severe multipath. Tweaking the antenna usually lets me pull in a particular station but the key word is tweaking. KOMO, KING, and KCTS have good days and bad for me. KIRO, KSTW, KCPQ, and KTWB usually come in fine at all times.

Steve
Before you try it, have you tried different locations for the antenna? A few feet in any direction can make a big difference. Do you have a preamp on it as well? I would sure think you need one at that distance and being NW of Seattle. Signals in that direction drop off a lot more.

You can stack them, but do it vertically. Set one right on top of the other, grids touching. It doesn't have to be an electrical contact, just as close as possible. Don't overlap. Make sure the leads from each one to the 2way splitter are exactly the same lengths, and as short as possible, and be sure the baluns are mounted exactly the same, too.
4228's are not that great in the trees, as they have a wide reception path. Yagi types are far better. If it doesn't help, that would be the next thing to try.
Dan

Thanks Dan! Yes I've tried lots of locations and I'm in the best one I've found so far. I've tried it with and without a 7775 preamp too. I don't think signal strength is my problem.

I'll give the dueling antennas a try. I wanted to ask the pros (you) first, but if this doesn't help I guess I'll try a yagi.

Thanks Dan! Yes I've tried lots of locations and I'm in the best one I've found so far. I've tried it with and without a 7775 preamp too. I don't think signal strength is my problem.

I'll give the dueling antennas a try. I wanted to ask the pros (you) first, but if this doesn't help I guess I'll try a yagi.

Steve
If the preamp made no difference there, then you really have a tree problem.
All the extra 4228 is going to do is give you a little more gain, and be a little bit narrower in reception(fussier about aiming, which is okay for you). Try a 4248 with and with out the preamp. That's really narrow, and will help thread the needle through the trees.
Dan

Thanks again Dan.

What do you recommend for a yagi - the CM 3023 maybe?

We just completed some interesting experimental work here at KOMO-DT on the audio side, and will be testing it for a few days. For the first time, KOMO-DT will be full time DD5.1 surround. Unlike in the past, there should now be surround audio for all your speakers depending on content of course. For example, with a mono source there will be much more center-channel audio than the other channels, rightfully so.

The other thing this experiment may solve, is the Comcast STB's or some OTA receivers that need to resync when switching between stereo and DD5.1. Now that we are sending surround audio all the time, the need to switch is no longer required.

So I would be curious as to your observations on this experiment. We in engineering land are feeling pretty good about the changes, but realize there are a lot of variables out in reception land.

Kelly

Thanks for the info Kelly. Just turned on KOMO and so far it sounds fine, got 5.1 audio. This is through a DISH Network HD DVR and audio going out optical to my AVR.

Thanks again Dan.

What do you recommend for a yagi - the CM 3023 maybe?

Steve
The 4248. The 3023 is NOT the same thing. Close, no cigar. Those funny looking diamond shaped bits on the 4248 really do make a difference. Really.
Dan

We just completed some interesting experimental work here at KOMO-DT on the audio side, and will be testing it for a few days. For the first time, KOMO-DT will be full time DD5.1 surround. Unlike in the past, there should now be surround audio for all your speakers depending on content of course. For example, with a mono source there will be much more center-channel audio than the other channels, rightfully so.

The other thing this experiment may solve, is the Comcast STB's or some OTA receivers that need to resync when switching between stereo and DD5.1. Now that we are sending surround audio all the time, the need to switch is no longer required.

So I would be curious as to your observations on this experiment. We in engineering land are feeling pretty good about the changes, but realize there are a lot of variables out in reception land.

Kelly

Thanks Kelly for sharing with us. I will do some reception "testing" to see how it sounds on my HD TiVo units, with both DD5.1 feeds (to the A/V receivers) and with analog stereo feeds (mixed down by the HD TiVo).

I will post my observations here.

For the first time, KOMO-DT will be full time DD5.1 surround.Yes, thanks for the info Kelly. Unfortunately I am not yet set up to receive 5.1 via my current computer config though, which doesn't have digital audio in on it's sound card.

I have, however, been getting 4 in again, where as I lost it when the Olympics were on. I started getting it in again about a day before the Oscars. Are any of the changes you made likely responsible for it? I live just about a half mile SE of the transmitters.

Yes, thanks for the info Kelly. Unfortunately I am not yet set up to receive 5.1 via my current computer config though, which doesn't have digital audio in on it's sound card.

I have, however, been getting 4 in again, where as I lost it when the Olympics were on. I started getting it in again about a day before the Oscars. Are any of the changes you made likely responsible for it? I live just about a half mile SE of the transmitters.

Hello Hi Def. We haven't changed anything related to the KOMO DT transmission scheme, just audio encoding. The recent audio change won't effect your reception of KOMO-DT.

Best Regards,

Kelly

Kelly, I like what I am hearing on my system. My old Denon AVP8000 easily stays locked onto the Komo audio signal now.

Thanks goes out to you and your entire staff, this is a great improvement.

espn2 on KIRO 7-2...???

espn2 on KIRO 7-2...???
Better than the airport picture...

espn2 on KIRO 7-2...???


I agree ???????

whats up with this?


They are showing the World Baseball Classic. neat idea.

Anyone know about my chances for OTA reception in Maple Leaf with either indoor or outdoor? 100th and 15th NE are the cross streets.

Thanks!

Anyone know about my chances for OTA reception in Maple Leaf with either indoor or outdoor? 100th and 15th NE are the cross streets.

Thanks!

You are in a pretty good area. Outdoor is always better than indoors and rooftop is better than anyhting else. But there's no harm in trying some things indoors first. The Radio Shack 15-1880 works for some people indoors and you can return it if it doesn't do the trick. If you want to just go straight rooftop from the start then a Channel Master 4221 is a good bet.

P.S. ever stop by the Little Pastry Cafe 11740 15th?

Im Looking for some Help. I live in Mukilteo and I am a D* customer. I have a HR10-250 and the flyswatter lookin ota antenna that came from D* . I subscribe to the HD package and the reception through the Dish is great. Now when it comes to the Local HD Channels and tryin to view them thorugh the ota antenna it's very hit and miss. Can anyone relate to this? And is there something I should be doin different than how the D* installer hooked up the ota antenna. ( Guess I should describe the install huh?) The ota antenna has RG-6 going into the big 6X8 outside and then a another run of RG-6 going to the HR10-250 where it gets split and then into the box. Is this how it should be? Can I do something to improve it? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance....

Im Looking for some Help. I live in Mukilteo and I am a D* customer. I have a HR10-250 and the flyswatter lookin ota antenna that came from D* . I subscribe to the HD package and the reception through the Dish is great. Now when it comes to the Local HD Channels and tryin to view them thorugh the ota antenna it's very hit and miss. Can anyone relate to this? And is there something I should be doin different than how the D* installer hooked up the ota antenna. ( Guess I should describe the install huh?) The ota antenna has RG-6 going into the big 6X8 outside and then a another run of RG-6 going to the HR10-250 where it gets split and then into the box. Is this how it should be? Can I do something to improve it? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance....

HDmat
The antenna they use is pretty small. Usually they hook it up okay, and in your case, they must have, or you wouldn't get any OTA. Location is probably the trouble.
You also are loosing more than you need to going through the big switch. If your 6X8 is not powered by a separate power supply (has an internal amplifier), and you don't need OTA on all those satellite runs, then you should connect it up to just the one run that feeds your HD set.
What's your cross streets so we can check out reception capability?
Dan

Dan, my cross streets are 45th Ave W and 80 St Sw, I live south of 80th St sw at the end of 45th Ave W cul-de-sac.

Dan, my cross streets are 45th Ave W and 80 St Sw, I live south of 80th St sw at the end of 45th Ave W cul-de-sac.

HDmat
Great location. There are a few trees, but unless you're right next to a big one, you should be fine. My guess is the install was not done quite right. If you can get it up and away from anything, so it can see south, and you have it mixed in only with the one cable that feeds your HD receiver, you should be okay.
If you have questions, call. Just slaving away in the office on the fargin taxes!
Dan
206-794-3993

I'm getting a high pitched whine on KOMO-DT, both OTA and on MDM cable. Anyone else getting this?

I'm getting a high pitched whine on KOMO-DT, both OTA and on MDM cable. Anyone else getting this?
No whine on my OTA at 7:00PM.

So I'm new to HDTV and loving it (though I wish they would do away with the station embossing). I live East of Redmond a ways, off of 202.

I am getting most all of the local stations in HD just fine, but I've found that no matter what I do, I can receive either KOMO (4.1) or KING (5.1) - not both. If I point my antenna for optimum signal on 4.1, then 5.1 is lost. And if I optimize for 5.1, then I loose 4.1. I don't understand this, as both stations broadcast from the same geographic location. I've tried to split the difference, but then both have too many dropouts to remain watchable.

I am using a large Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna mounted on a 10ft mast on my roof (VU-120 XR). The UHF section of the antenna looks pretty similar to the other antennas I've seen (very Yagi like). I'm in a bunch of very tall fir trees, but I'm on a hill and can see some daylight through the trees off in the direction of the transmitters (240 deg).

I receive 7 HD stations at levels above 80 on the TV's signal meter (out of 100). Pretty good, but I want to get all 8! If I point the antenna at roughly 240deg, I can get all but 5.1 (sig = 32), but if I swing the antenna about 30deg North then 5.1 comes in great (sig = 80) and 4.1 becomes unwatchable (sig = 61).

What is strange, is that all 6 other channels stay more or less the same signal level either way. it is only these two channels that show such variability. I suppose that the fir trees or some terrain is causing the signal to diffract, but I don't know what to do about it.

Can I mount another small UHF-only antenna on the same mast, point it at a slightly different angle, and then mix the signals with a combiner?

Or would another UHF antenna work better? I don't really have too many placement options on the roof, and given the tree density it all looks pretty uniform to me.

Any suggestions short of an antenna rotator?

Thanks,
Craig

Hello all, I'm getting a Samsung HD receiver this week and want to try and get some HD OTA. Anyone here in the Monroe area that can give me some suggestions on an antenna to use?

Hello all, I'm getting a Samsung HD receiver this week and want to try and get some HD OTA. Anyone here in the Monroe area that can give me some suggestions on an antenna to use?
Post your nearest intersection or approx. address or lat/lon so we can check your line-of-sight first. If that looks OK then you have many options. The cheap & easy place to start is the Radio Shack 15-2160 for $25. Unless you have thick trees to go through you won't need super high gain.

So I'm new to HDTV and loving it (though I wish they would do away with the station embossing). I live East of Redmond a ways, off of 202.

I am getting most all of the local stations in HD just fine, but I've found that no matter what I do, I can receive either KOMO (4.1) or KING (5.1) - not both. If I point my antenna for optimum signal on 4.1, then 5.1 is lost. And if I optimize for 5.1, then I loose 4.1. I don't understand this, as both stations broadcast from the same geographic location. I've tried to split the difference, but then both have too many dropouts to remain watchable.

I am using a large Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna mounted on a 10ft mast on my roof (VU-120 XR). The UHF section of the antenna looks pretty similar to the other antennas I've seen (very Yagi like). I'm in a bunch of very tall fir trees, but I'm on a hill and can see some daylight through the trees off in the direction of the transmitters (240 deg).

I receive 7 HD stations at levels above 80 on the TV's signal meter (out of 100). Pretty good, but I want to get all 8! If I point the antenna at roughly 240deg, I can get all but 5.1 (sig = 32), but if I swing the antenna about 30deg North then 5.1 comes in great (sig = 80) and 4.1 becomes unwatchable (sig = 61).

What is strange, is that all 6 other channels stay more or less the same signal level either way. it is only these two channels that show such variability. I suppose that the fir trees or some terrain is causing the signal to diffract, but I don't know what to do about it.

Can I mount another small UHF-only antenna on the same mast, point it at a slightly different angle, and then mix the signals with a combiner?

Or would another UHF antenna work better? I don't really have too many placement options on the roof, and given the tree density it all looks pretty uniform to me.

Any suggestions short of an antenna rotator?

Thanks,
Craig
Sounds like you may have some strong reflections. The towers are just far enough apart that reflections will come from different places and angles. If you can't easily move your antenna the first thing I'd try is a Rat Shack 15-2160 and a combiner or A-B switch. I know everyone says you can't use a combiner but I have done it with great success at my own house when I was having trouble with ch 4. I ended up moving my rooftop antenna later and that solved my problem. But the combiner was a great short-term solution. An A-B switch works even better but is more of a pain when you're channel surfing. There are fancier devices for combining antennas (JoinTenna) but the frequencies for ch 4 and 5 may be too close together for that to work well. There are also remote-controlled A-B switches available.

No whine on my OTA at 7:00PM.

i should have been more specific, it's really obvious during the news only...check it out and report back :)

So I'm new to HDTV and loving it (though I wish they would do away with the station embossing). I live East of Redmond a ways, off of 202.

I am getting most all of the local stations in HD just fine, but I've found that no matter what I do, I can receive either KOMO (4.1) or KING (5.1) - not both. If I point my antenna for optimum signal on 4.1, then 5.1 is lost. And if I optimize for 5.1, then I loose 4.1. I don't understand this, as both stations broadcast from the same geographic location. I've tried to split the difference, but then both have too many dropouts to remain watchable.

I am using a large Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna mounted on a 10ft mast on my roof (VU-120 XR). The UHF section of the antenna looks pretty similar to the other antennas I've seen (very Yagi like). I'm in a bunch of very tall fir trees, but I'm on a hill and can see some daylight through the trees off in the direction of the transmitters (240 deg).

I receive 7 HD stations at levels above 80 on the TV's signal meter (out of 100). Pretty good, but I want to get all 8! If I point the antenna at roughly 240deg, I can get all but 5.1 (sig = 32), but if I swing the antenna about 30deg North then 5.1 comes in great (sig = 80) and 4.1 becomes unwatchable (sig = 61).

What is strange, is that all 6 other channels stay more or less the same signal level either way. it is only these two channels that show such variability. I suppose that the fir trees or some terrain is causing the signal to diffract, but I don't know what to do about it.

Can I mount another small UHF-only antenna on the same mast, point it at a slightly different angle, and then mix the signals with a combiner?

Or would another UHF antenna work better? I don't really have too many placement options on the roof, and given the tree density it all looks pretty uniform to me.

Any suggestions short of an antenna rotator?

Thanks,
Craig

Craig
It's kind of like the signals diffract, which there probably is some, but more that the trees are blocking a direct line-of-sight. You're getting some signal, obviously, but not enough directly, so, by mis-aiming slightly, you find the right spot where two or more signals add up enough to work. The antenna you have is not that narrow in reception, but that's actually helping. That's why you can move it around a bit and get some of the channels fine. Ch4 is about 60mhz lower in frequency than ch5(ch48 UHF, about 675mhz). That's a lot in HD world and reception problems. I've seen the same problem you have, but with ch4 and ch7, which are right next to each other (ch38 & 39 UHF). It's hard to describe how the trees and antenna types interact until you see it on a scope/analyzer. It would show exactly what's going on, and where a better location might work.
Trying to figure it out at this point, though, without a meter, is going to drive you nuts!

So, what to do.
You could try mounting the mast a foot or so away, in any direction, and they might all come in. That small change can make a big difference.
Or, you could try another antenna for all channels, but from the success you're getting now, I would say that's going to be more work than it's worth.
You and quarque have the right idea already. A smaller UHF might just work, with a Jointenna tuned for ch48. Normally you can't do it with the other ch's around here, as it will wipe out several ch's either side of the one you're trying to couple. Luckily, there's a seven channel spread between the next nearest one, ch9 (ch41 UHF), so it will work. (For those wondering about other channels, only ch13 (CH18 UHF) can be added without a problem.) The RatShack 15-2160 is what I would try first. Try it by itself, before you order the Jointenna, and see if ch5 comes in. If so, you could try a plain old 2way splitter to add the two antennas together and see what happens. Don't be too surprised if it doesn't work. Order the Jointenna and you should be in business.
Dan

quarque
I live on the West side of Monroe. Nearest intersection would probably be SR#522 and 164th ST SE. Monroe is about 9 miles NE of Bothell.

i should have been more specific, it's really obvious during the news only...check it out and report back :)

I watched the news at 11:00pm on KOMO last night, OTA. No whine, no issues.

I watched the news at 11:00pm on KOMO last night, OTA. No whine, no issues.
I watch KOMO-DT (HD) news regularly. I have not heard any "Whine" problem on either of my 2 HD TiVo's (using separate A/V receivers, each with optical connections) or on my Hughes E-86 HD receiver, listening to analog/stereo audio on an HD monitor.

I watch KOMO-DT (HD) news regularly. I have not heard any "Whine" problem on either of my 2 HD TiVo's (using separate A/V receivers, each with optical connections) or on my Hughes E-86 HD receiver, listening to analog/stereo audio on an HD monitor.

Me too, and it's there. It's subtle, but once you pick up on it and flip channels around, it becomes really obvious. Try listening as they go from the news to a commercial...

BTW, I get this on all 3 of my ATSC tuners, plus cable. All hooked up digitally.

OTA reception in North Beach/Blue Ridge (north of Ballard, above Golden Gardens).

I was wondering if anyone is having success in this area? I live north of 85th St on 92nd St. South of 85th street the topography is relatively flat/ to sloping down and there is a good line of sight to the towers on Queen Anne.

BUT north of 85th and the topography starts sloping the other direction down toward Puget Sound, thus I am probably 100' below the level of 85th St and cannot see Queen Anne. I do have a a clear line of sight to the south, but it is higher than the top of QA. Antennaweb.org has me listed as red. I was thinking about getting the Antennasdirect SR15. Is this a good choice or overkill? The towers are probably about 7 miles from me.

Thanks,

Tim

Me too, and it's there. It's subtle, but once you pick up on it and flip channels around, it becomes really obvious. Try listening as they go from the news to a commercial...

BTW, I get this on all 3 of my ATSC tuners, plus cable. All hooked up digitally.
I missed the early news tonight, but I will try to stay awake long enough for the 11 pm news. Or, I will record it and watch tomorrow if needed.

NCAA Games On KIRO: Thurs. March 16
KIRO 7.0

Time
Game

9:40 a.m.
Boston College vs. Pacific (Salt Lake City I)

12:00 p.m.
Nevada vs. Montana (Salt Lake City II)

4:20 p.m.
Gonzaga vs. Xavier (Salt Lake City III)

6:45 p.m.
Washington vs. Utah State (San Diego IV)

KIRO 7.1 Seen on Comcast channel 107

Time
Game

9:20 a.m.
Wichita State vs. Seton Hall (Greensboro I)

11:40 p.m.
Marquette vs. Alabama (San Diego I)

4:20 p.m.
Gonzaga vs. Xavier (Salt Lake City III)

6:45 p.m.
Washington vs. Utah State (San Diego IV)

KIRO 7.2 Seen on Comcast channel 117

Time
Game

9:25 a.m.
Oklahoma vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee (Jacksonville I)

11:45 a.m.
Florida vs. South Alabama (Jacksonville II)

4:25 p.m.
Illinois vs. Air Force (San Diego III)

6:40 p.m.
Indiana vs. San Diego State (Salt Lake City IV)

----------------

NCAA Games On KIRO: Fri. March 17
KIRO 7.0

Time
Game

9:30 a.m.
Arizona vs. Wisconsin (Philadelphia I)

11:45 a.m.
West Virginia vs. Southern Illinois (Auburn Hills II)

4:20 p.m.
California vs. North Carolina State (Dallas III)

6:45 p.m.
Kentucky vs. UAB (Philadelphia IV)

KIRO 7.1, Seen on Comcast channel 107

Time
Game

9:30 a.m.
Arizona vs. Wisconsin (Philadelphia I)

11:45 p.m.
West Virginia vs. Southern Illinois (Auburn Hills II)

4:10 p.m.
Pittsburgh vs. Kent State (Auburn Hills III)

6:45 p.m.
Kentucky vs. UAB (Philadelphia IV)

KIRO 7.2, Seen on Comcast channel 117

Time
Game

9:15 a.m.
Ohio State vs. Davidson (Dayton I)

11:35 a.m.
Georgetown vs. Northern Iowa (Dayton II)

4:10 p.m.
Michigan State vs. George Mason (Dayton III)

6:30 p.m.
North Carolina vs. Murray State (Dayton IV)

quarque
I live on the West side of Monroe. Nearest intersection would probably be SR#522 and 164th ST SE. Monroe is about 9 miles NE of Bothell.

Unfortunately, you are in the shadow of Bald Hill and have no direct path to the Seattle towers or ch 13. You might pick up some reflected signals but they are usually not reliable enough for decent reception. Consider getting a dish or cable.

OTA reception in North Beach/Blue Ridge (north of Ballard, above Golden Gardens).

I was wondering if anyone is having success in this area? I live north of 85th St on 92nd St. South of 85th street the topography is relatively flat/ to sloping down and there is a good line of sight to the towers on Queen Anne.

BUT north of 85th and the topography starts sloping the other direction down toward Puget Sound, thus I am probably 100' below the level of 85th St and cannot see Queen Anne. I do have a a clear line of sight to the south, but it is higher than the top of QA. Antennaweb.org has me listed as red. I was thinking about getting the Antennasdirect SR15. Is this a good choice or overkill? The towers are probably about 7 miles from me.

Thanks,

Tim
If you put a mast on your roof you should be OK. The SR15 would work, but for half the money you can get the 15-2160 at Radio Shack without paying shipping and you can easily return it if it does not work. Ch 13 will be a bit of a challenge since the tower is near Bremerton which is almost 90 degrees off axis from the Seattle towers. You will need a rotor or a second antenna most likely to get 13.

OTA reception in North Beach/Blue Ridge (north of Ballard, above Golden Gardens).

I was wondering if anyone is having success in this area? I live north of 85th St on 92nd St. South of 85th street the topography is relatively flat/ to sloping down and there is a good line of sight to the towers on Queen Anne.

BUT north of 85th and the topography starts sloping the other direction down toward Puget Sound, thus I am probably 100' below the level of 85th St and cannot see Queen Anne. I do have a a clear line of sight to the south, but it is higher than the top of QA. Antennaweb.org has me listed as red. I was thinking about getting the Antennasdirect SR15. Is this a good choice or overkill? The towers are probably about 7 miles from me.

Thanks,

Tim

Tim
Depends what the cross street is. If it's near 31st, the trees will be a problem. Near 25th, it's bad, near 21st it's good. There's some strange pockets of multipath around there, too. If you want to try, use the 15-2160 from RatShack. It's going to be the same reception as the antennas direct overpriced one, and you can take it back if it doesn't work. Be sure to mount it on a 10ft mast and the highest spot you can. If you're near 21st, a 4221 will pull in ch13 as well as the rest. It might not do so well in the gully.
Dan

Dan and Quarque,

Thanks for the info, I am on 27th NW and I back up to one of the ravines. Luckily, the trees in the ravine are about level w/ the top of my house so I am hoping it will work.

Me too, and it's there. It's subtle, but once you pick up on it and flip channels around, it becomes really obvious. Try listening as they go from the news to a commercial...

BTW, I get this on all 3 of my ATSC tuners, plus cable. All hooked up digitally.

On two of my three receivers, I heard no whine tonight on the KOMO-DT HD news program. I could not listen to the third one because people are sleeping.

Dan and Quarque,

I hooked up a Channelmaster outdoor antenna (Lowes home version) and bought the one that covers all colors on the antenna rating system (antennaweb.org), pointed it directly according to the compass settings and received the locals 4.1 komo, 5.1 king, 7.1 kiro, 13.1 kcpq, and the rest of the local network. I just had HD through D* with the HD DVR which has a OTA tuner and now I do not receive 5.1 king- they are all around the same compass reading?
Would I benefit from a amplifier or is the antenna off due to the current windstorms? I notice that the power meter ratings are in the 60's as when I had them hooked up through the Panny ED I ws getting high 80's to 90's. Thanks,

Dan and Quarque,

I hooked up a Channelmaster outdoor antenna (Lowes home version) and bought the one that covers all colors on the antenna rating system (antennaweb.org), pointed it directly according to the compass settings and received the locals 4.1 komo, 5.1 king, 7.1 kiro, 13.1 kcpq, and the rest of the local network. I just had HD through D* with the HD DVR which has a OTA tuner and now I do not receive 5.1 king- they are all around the same compass reading?
Would I benefit from a amplifier or is the antenna off due to the current windstorms? I notice that the power meter ratings are in the 60's as when I had them hooked up through the Panny ED I ws getting high 80's to 90's. Thanks,

sleepless
If you hookup the panasonic and it works okay, as before, then your new one most likely isn't that swift. When HD Tivo's first came out a few years ago, they were all less sensitive. Since then, they've kind of been hit or miss. Sometimes the new ones are amazing, and then I'll see a few that are pretty whimpy. It could be your's is not up to working well with a marginal signal.
If the Panasonic isn't working as before, then something changed, obviously, so check your connections, aiming, etc.
Dan

Dan,

Good idea- I will hook up the antenna feed back to the Panny and confirm.

Thanks,

I just hooked it up and the Panny shows King 5.1,5.2, OTA- 88 on the stregth meter.

Can I add anything to improve the signal strength and possibly pull in King 5.1 on the HD-DVR OTA tuner?

Thanks,

Hi,

I am new to this forum and would like to get some advice. Could you tell me if I will be able to get good reception for HDTV signals in the Redmond Ridge area (WA 98053). The nearest intersections to my place are either 229th Lane NE and NE 97th Street or NE Cedar Park Crescent and Redmond Ridge Drive NE.

Also, I am thinking of buying ATI HDTV tuner card to get the OTA channels - Could you tell me if the antenna that comes with the card is good enough for my location or should I buy a new antenna?

Thank you very much for help.

I just hooked it up and the Panny shows King 5.1,5.2, OTA- 88 on the stregth meter.

Can I add anything to improve the signal strength and possibly pull in King 5.1 on the HD-DVR OTA tuner?

Thanks,

sleepless
Not usually.
Your tuner just can't handle what ever problem you have. If it's weak level, which is not likely (I have 2 Panasonics, they're not that great to begin with), amplifiying it will just make the signal noiser along with level. Since your tuner can't handle noise or chopped up signals already, more of the same won't do it. If you really have a chopped up signal (trees, buildings, etc) then the Panasonic wouldn't have locked on. It does, however, so that tells me you must have a fairly good signal.
I ran into a Tivo the other day that was purchased on e-bay, and had similar results to yours. I hooked my 3yr old LG tuner and it worked much better.
I think it's time to look at getting that one replaced or repaired. I just setup a new Direct DVR H20-250 today, and it did a very good job with a poor OTA signal.
Dan

Hi,

I am new to this forum and would like to get some advice. Could you tell me if I will be able to get good reception for HDTV signals in the Redmond Ridge area (WA 98053). The nearest intersections to my place are either 229th Lane NE and NE 97th Street or NE Cedar Park Crescent and Redmond Ridge Drive NE.

Also, I am thinking of buying ATI HDTV tuner card to get the OTA channels - Could you tell me if the antenna that comes with the card is good enough for my location or should I buy a new antenna?

Thank you very much for help.

poove
I don't know what antenna comes with that card.
However, I did do a job only a few blocks south of you, and signal was fairly good, but it was sensitive to location, trying to find the right spot for all channels to come in. It doesn't look like the trees in the distance are that much of a factor, but they are. I used a small yagi, like the Rat Shack 15-2160, mounted about 10ft above ground, and a 7775 preamp. An indoor antenna would have poor reception and be very sensitive about which direction and location for each channel, if you could even get them.
Dan

Dan - The antenna that comes with the ATI card is similar to the silver sensor (almost a knockoff).
poove - I'm not the expert that Dan is, but just to share my experience - I'm also in Redmond (on Education Hill) and have an HDTV Wonder. I didn't try the included antenna because I already had one on the roof. The tuner in the ATI card seems to be pretty good - better than the OTA box I used to use (Samsung SIR-T151) and on par with the new Dish Network boxes (Vip622). With the roof antenna I can pull in pretty much everything in the area, but I did have to play with it a bit to find the sweet spot. Being on top of the hill probably helped me. The software that comes with the ATI card is kinda flaky, so if you go that route I'd recommend trying the WatchHDTV app that another forum member has provided. There's a thread in the HTPC forum about it.

Poove,

You might want to also consider a Fusion HDTV5 card. I just installed it last week in my HTPC and I've been pretty pleased with the results. Cost about $160 shipped. Seems to do a better job of multipath rejection than my 942. Good thread on those cards elsewhere in AVS (old age prevents me from giving you a quick reference).

Good luck.

John

Dan,

Thanks for your input- I called D* and explained the situation with their advanced tech support and they pulled up the compass readings, had me clear and rescan the OTA channels to no avail- rather than replace or repair, they have applied to have me receive the West Coast HD feed based out of LA for NBC. With the new MPEG 4 tuners due out shortly, I don't think they wanted to repair or replace at this time (they didn't suggest this anyway)- hr20-250? is this the new Mpeg 4 dvr?

Thanks,

This morning I got Komo with a 67-70 strength...this afternoon I can't get a signal...this happens daily....often in the afternoon....sometimes with channel 7
( kiro) but mostly 4...channel 5 is up in the 90%......

I do have some fir trees blocking my direct view to the city...


I have an Antenna Direct DB4 and a Sony XBR with internal HD receiver....

Thoughts?

This morning I got Komo with a 67-70 strength...this afternoon I can't get a signal...this happens daily....often in the afternoon....sometimes with channel 7
( kiro) but mostly 4...channel 5 is up in the 90%......

I do have some fir trees blocking my direct view to the city...


I have an Antenna Direct DB4 and a Sony XBR with internal HD receiver....

Thoughts?
One possibility: temperature inversion layer. In the mornings there is often a layer of warm air trapped over Puget Sound by a colder layer above. The boundary of this layer can act as a mirror for certain frequencies. When the atmosphere warms up the boundary gets all scrambeld up and the mirror is gone. There are a number of people in this area over the years that have reported the same effect as you. For others the mirror creates a reflection that actually wipes out the main signal so they LOSE reception in the morning and get it back in the afternoon. Your only solution is to find a spot where you can get a direct signal path.

One possibility: temperature inversion layer. In the mornings there is often a layer of warm air trapped over Puget Sound by a colder layer above. The boundary of this layer can act as a mirror for certain frequencies. When the atmosphere warms up the boundary gets all scrambeld up and the mirror is gone. There are a number of people in this area over the years that have reported the same effect as you. For others the mirror creates a reflection that actually wipes out the main signal so they LOSE reception in the morning and get it back in the afternoon. Your only solution is to find a spot where you can get a direct signal path.

Interesting...and thanks! I called Komo this afternoon and spoke to an engineer named David. He was actually very interested in "my problem" although he offered no solutions...he listened and took a lot of notes... he did say that come May 1st they will have a stronger transmission and that might help me keep the esignal.....

Poove,

You might want to also consider a Fusion HDTV5 card. I just installed it last week in my HTPC and I've been pretty pleased with the results. Cost about $160 shipped. Seems to do a better job of multipath rejection than my 942. Good thread on those cards elsewhere in AVS (old age prevents me from giving you a quick reference).

Good luck.

John

Thanks Dan, George and Anthony for your comments. You folks are very helpful. I will try with 15-2160 as Dan has mentioned and will also try both ATI and Fusion HDTV cards.

This morning I got Komo with a 67-70 strength...this afternoon I can't get a signal...this happens daily....often in the afternoon....sometimes with channel 7
( kiro) but mostly 4...channel 5 is up in the 90%......

I do have some fir trees blocking my direct view to the city...


I have an Antenna Direct DB4 and a Sony XBR with internal HD receiver....

Thoughts?

David
The DB4 doesn't have that much going for it to begin with. You wouldn't know you're on the ragged minimum edge, because once you get a lock, you'll see numbers that make you think there's plenty there. Any little thing can drop you enough to fail.
The most common cause is a bad balun. Heats up, expands, and looses contact internally. Less common, the rivets that hold the connecting rods expand with heat, just enough to make less contact, and it drops gain just enough to drop you below minimums. Once cold, it contracts and you get just a little more connection and gain. The same thing with the connections at the balun.
I would start with the balun. Be sure to clean up the connectiong posts.
Dan

David
The DB4 doesn't have that much going for it to begin with. You wouldn't know you're on the ragged minimum edge, because once you get a lock, you'll see numbers that make you think there's plenty there. Any little thing can drop you enough to fail.
The most common cause is a bad balun. Heats up, expands, and looses contact internally. Less common, the rivets that hold the connecting rods expand with heat, just enough to make less contact, and it drops gain just enough to drop you below minimums. Once cold, it contracts and you get just a little more connection and gain. The same thing with the connections at the balun.
I would start with the balun. Be sure to clean up the connectiong posts.

Dan

Thanks Dan...This morning...Tuesday...I get Komo in the 70% again... by this afternoon it will be gone. I will do as you suggest....

Just out of curiousity.... what antenna are you fond of? I always thought that the DB4 was a good choice for my area....but I certainly am game to try another....

Also I am about to send back a pre-amp CM7777 which didn't seem to help at all....

Thanks Dan...This morning...Tuesday...I get Komo in the 70% again... by this afternoon it will be gone. I will do as you suggest....

Just out of curiousity.... what antenna are you fond of? I always thought that the DB4 was a good choice for my area....but I certainly am game to try another....

Also I am about to send back a pre-amp CM7777 which didn't seem to help at all....

David
The DB4 is too small to do much. It has it's places, but they need to be close in and clean. A 4221 has far more suds, or the RatShack 15-2160, whichever works best, is where I start, then go up from there depending on site needs. A preamp works best when you have a good signal to start with. It amplifies everything, noise and garbage signals. Don't send it back just yet. Also, if you use it, you need to be sure and terminate the VHF input to keep out noise.
It sounds like you're pretty close, so the 4221 would be my first choice.
Dan

HI Dan.... I appreciate the individual attention....

Are talking about the Channel Master CM 4221A 4-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna .

To a novice it looks very similar to the DB4...also about the same size...certainly willing to give it a try if you really think it might help...

Also the suggested Radio Shack antenna looks totally different that the bow-tie ones... is it; function different ( ie directional vs. multi-directional)

.... I called Komo this afternoon and spoke to an engineer named David. He was actually very interested in "my problem" although he offered no solutions...he listened and took a lot of notes... he did say that come May 1st they will have a stronger transmission and that might help me keep the esignal.....

I haven't heard that KOMO-DT is planning any changes to their transmitter on May 1. Can anyone clarify, or add more information?

Interesting...and thanks! I called Komo this afternoon and spoke to an engineer named David. He was actually very interested in "my problem" although he offered no solutions...he listened and took a lot of notes... he did say that come May 1st they will have a stronger transmission and that might help me keep the esignal.....

Well there is nothing on the FCC site about KOMO boosting their power or changing antennas. I believe either of those would require a formal application and there are no new ones listed. So I don't know what this engineer means by a "stronger transmisssion" that would not require FCC approval.

Regarding your antenna, the DB4 is nearly identical to the 4221 and it would work about the same. You could very well have a faulty balun or connection so that is worth looking at (but I doubt that is the problem). The Radio Shack 15-2160 is a totally different design and is much more directional. That should be beneficial in your case. It is cheap and easy to return so give one a try. Since you are in the "weak" part of KOMO's pattern you may need a bigger antenna like a CM 4228 or 4248. The Antennas Direct 43XG is also good. You should also try different locations with your current setup to see if that has any effect.

HI Dan.... I appreciate the individual attention....

Are talking about the Channel Master CM 4221A 4-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna .

To a novice it looks very similar to the DB4...also about the same size...certainly willing to give it a try if you really think it might help...

Also the suggested Radio Shack antenna looks totally different that the bow-tie ones... is it; function different ( ie directional vs. multi-directional)

David
This is what the Forum's for, helping individuals. Hope we can make it work for you!

The 4221 is a Channel Master. Looks can be deceiving. It performs far better than the DB4, very wide reception. The RS antenna is more directional, sometimes works better, sometimes not. From where you are, all the channels are basically the same direction, as far as those two antennas are concerned, except ch13. The only way to find out which will work best is to try one. But first, replace the balun on the old one.
Dan

[QUOTE=DanKurts]David
The 4221 is a Channel Master. Looks can be deceiving. It performs far better than the DB4, very wide reception. /QUOTE]

FWIW, I have a CM4221. I live about 16 miles north of the downtown towers, some trees in the distance but nothing major. My location is about 500ft of elevation. I can pick up all downtown stations and channel 13 on my CM4221 without having to rotate it. Great antenna.

[QUOTE=DanKurts]David
The 4221 is a Channel Master. Looks can be deceiving. It performs far better than the DB4, very wide reception. /QUOTE]

FWIW, I have a CM4221. I live about 16 miles north of the downtown towers, some trees in the distance but nothing major. My location is about 500ft of elevation. I can pick up all downtown stations and channel 13 on my CM4221 without having to rotate it. Great antenna.

I have huge fir trees 30 feet in front of my antenna and unfortunately the three networks are in one direction and Fox is the other....so I have to sacrifice Fox

[QUOTE=robglasser]

I have huge fir trees 30 feet in front of my antenna and unfortunately the three networks are in one direction and Fox is the other....so I have to sacrifice Fox

David
You can use the DB4 for ch13, and another antenna for Seattle. Couple them together with a Jointenna from Channel Master. Order the Ch18 UHF model(ch13's actual channel frequency). I just used this setup, with a 4221, on Mercer Island, worked great.
Dan

[QUOTE=robglasser]

I have huge fir trees 30 feet in front of my antenna and unfortunately the three networks are in one direction and Fox is the other....so I have to sacrifice Fox

I get Fox just fine here in Seattle with my antenna pointed 90 degrees away from Gold Mountain. In fact, it's one of my best stations. The only time the signal ever broke up was when there was a huge rain storm over Gold Mountain. But I don't think there's anything between me here in Seattle and the Gold Mountain tower.

Now I can't get UPN or Ch 9 that well, even though that's only a few degrees off the direction for 4, 5, and 7, but I think they are lower power and I do probably have a slight hill and/or trees in the way.

I'm just using a standard Radio Shack roof mount UHF/VHF antenna that is attic mounted.

So I ordered the 4221.... meanwhile I tried the Radio Shack antenna you suggested...that did not make any difference with signal strength...so I packed it up and will return it...waiting to try the 4221 which arrives next week....

Am I the only one amazed that prince and Steve Martin were in hd goodness (or badness depending on your taste level)
I thought someone would have said whoo hoo!

Am I the only one amazed that prince and Steve Martin were in hd goodness (or badness depending on your taste level)
I thought someone would have said whoo hoo!

I'll shout whoo hoo as soon as a new episode runs in HD =)

So I ordered the 4221.... meanwhile I tried the Radio Shack antenna you suggested...that did not make any difference with signal strength...so I packed it up and will return it...waiting to try the 4221 which arrives next week....
I did some research on the DB4 on various forums around the web. It is identical in size and design to the 4221. The gain plots are within 1 dB of each other. The only knock on it seems to be price (twice the 4221). So I seriously doubt the 4221 will work any better than what you currently have.

Out of curiousity, if the weather is stormy/windy in the morning do you still get KOMO clearly?

I did some research on the DB4 on various forums around the web. It is identical in size and design to the 4221. The gain plots are within 1 dB of each other. The only knock on it seems to be price (twice the 4221). So I seriously doubt the 4221 will work any better than what you currently have.

Out of curiousity, if the weather is stormy/windy in the morning do you still get KOMO clearly?

quarque
Charts & graphs are okay.
Real world, big difference!
I had one in the van for a few months, many jobs tested.
Dan

Am I the only one amazed that prince and Steve Martin were in hd goodness (or badness depending on your taste level)
I thought someone would have said whoo hoo!
It was mentioned on the Comcast thread. I cheered there. It's about time.

I did some research on the DB4 on various forums around the web. It is identical in size and design to the 4221. The gain plots are within 1 dB of each other. The only knock on it seems to be price (twice the 4221). So I seriously doubt the 4221 will work any better than what you currently have.

Out of curiousity, if the weather is stormy/windy in the morning do you still get KOMO clearly?

Iordered the 4221 and it should be here today...will let you know if I get any better results...meanwhile...I have beeen up to the roof 50 times trying to tweek the DB4....I cannot get all the channels with it aimed in one direction...if I do adjust it to get all the networks ( except Fox) I lose Kong....I did just that and this morning I can't get channel 4 again...channel 4 is the hardest to zero in on....I lose it more than others and it appears to be worse when it is clear and sunny...someone suggested that perhaps the cloud cover helps focus the signal my way? I probably need a rotor but I am not interested in going that far...I 'll get Dish HD ( with local networks) before I go to that much trouble....

FYI: starting April 1st 2006 DirectTV will offer local HD channels via its Satellite dish!!

FYI: starting April 1st 2006 DirectTV will offer local HD channels via its Satellite dish!!
But only KOMO-DT (ABC), KING-DT (NBC), KIRO-DT (CBS) and KCPQ-DT (Fox).

Note that KCTS-DT and HD (PBS) are not included.

Nor are WB, UPN, KONG-DT and any other digital channels.

Fitting date for something from DirecTV. :D

But only KOMO-DT (ABC), KING-DT (NBC), KIRO-DT (CBS) and KCPQ-DT (Fox).

Note that KCTS-DT and HD (PBS) are not included.

Nor are WB, UPN, KONG-DT and any other digital channels.

Also, you'll need a new 5-LNB AT9 satellite dish to receive the new MPEG4 HiDef local channels, and a new HiDef DirecTV Receiver (H20). The current HR10-250 HiDef DirecTivo cannot receive those channels. If you can receive our local channels using an OTA antenna, that's the way to go.

I am lucky to receive all of the digital stations I care about OTA, so I intend to keep my 2 HD TiVo boxes from DirecTV and delay any conversion as long as possible. I truly believe I can stay status quo for at least 3 more years, maybe more.

There would have to be some pretty exciting new HD programming only available via MPEG-4 from DirecTV to drive me to change.

Iordered the 4221 and it should be here today...will let you know if I get any better results...meanwhile...I have beeen up to the roof 50 times trying to tweek the DB4....I cannot get all the channels with it aimed in one direction...if I do adjust it to get all the networks ( except Fox) I lose Kong....I did just that and this morning I can't get channel 4 again...channel 4 is the hardest to zero in on....I lose it more than others and it appears to be worse when it is clear and sunny...someone suggested that perhaps the cloud cover helps focus the signal my way? I probably need a rotor but I am not interested in going that far...I 'll get Dish HD ( with local networks) before I go to that much trouble....

David
What it sounds like is the trees are chopping up your signal enough that it's constantly varying as they move. If you get a weak enough signal, it can act wierd. Have you tried other locations for the antenna? Did you ever change the balun? If you zero on ch4, forget the others, does it stay locked?

Clouds? Uhhh, no, not with UHF HD at your distance and with what you're getting already. The only times I've seen "atmospheric reception" is if the main signal was below what the meter could read in the normal direction. If I pointed the antenna to the sky at a 45 degree angle, there was some tiny blips, but nothing resembling a signal you could lock on. You are getting signal, just not reliably. That says you're close, and have a fair amount of signal. You could even have plenty of signal, but, as mentioned, it's getting broken up.
Let me know the answers.
Dan

David
What it sounds like is the trees are chopping up your signal enough that it's constantly varying as they move. If you get a weak enough signal, it can act wierd. Have you tried other locations for the antenna? Did you ever change the balun? If you zero on ch4, forget the others, does it stay locked?

Clouds? Uhhh, no, not with UHF HD at your distance and with what you're getting already. The only times I've seen "atmospheric reception" is if the main signal was below what the meter could read in the normal direction. If I pointed the antenna to the sky at a 45 degree angle, there was some tiny blips, but nothing resembling a signal you could lock on. You are getting signal, just not reliably. That says you're close, and have a fair amount of signal. You could even have plenty of signal, but, as mentioned, it's getting broken up.
Let me know the answers.
Dan

Hi Dan....didn't change the balun yet... waiting for the new antenna ( 4221) to arrive ( today?) before I crawl back up to the roof for a millionth time....I have tried changing the antenna location to no avail... the place I have it now seems to be the most consistant...I actually put an extension on the antenna pole to raise it a bit...but it seems to have made it worse....I was getting better reception when it was 4 feet lower andbesides still having trouble with 4 I lost Kong as well....

I only see a small patch of sky when I look through the trees...otherwise it is a heavy curtain of fir branches and trunks....

FYI: starting April 1st 2006 DirectTV will offer local HD channels via its Satellite dish!!

DISH Network has announced Seattle HD locals for Q2 2006, so it may be a couple more months but they'll have them as well. However, like Direct TV they are only offering the Big 4 networks, ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX. You'll still need an antenna if you want the others.

Dear Dan..... So I got the 4221 today. After a few false starts ( a wing nut that for the life of me I could not got on...(stripped screw?) I finally got the beast up on the roof and mounted...at first I was disappointed... still no channel 4....and basically everything like it was with the DB4.... but the I tweaked it ever so slightly... ( turned it more due North and down.... and I did get 4...not strong ( about 56-60) but I did get it... as well as 13( never got that with the DB4) and all the PBS stations from Tacoma....so it brought in half dozen or so more stations...didn't increase the signal strength but I am getting them.... I did lose Pax in the switch..but I ain't going to touch it again now that I at least have them all in some form........

postscript.... now that I have been surfing the channels for an hour or so....it isn't perfect... channel 4 comes in at 60% and then all of a sudden drops the signal... then comes back... same with a few other channels...I have tried everything and am beginning to believe that it is something ( perhaps tree branches) that swings into the signal and blocks it....

Dear Dan..... So I got the 4221 today. After a few false starts ( a wing nut that for the life of me I could not got on...(stripped screw?) I finally got the beast up on the roof and mounted...at first I was disappointed... still no channel 4....and basically everything like it was with the DB4.... but the I tweaked it ever so slightly... ( turned it more due North and down.... and I did get 4...not strong ( about 56-60) but I did get it... as well as 13( never got that with the DB4) and all the PBS stations from Tacoma....so it brought in half dozen or so more stations...didn't increase the signal strength but I am getting them.... I did lose Pax in the switch..but I ain't going to touch it again now that I at least have them all in some form........

postscript.... now that I have been surfing the channels for an hour or so....it isn't perfect... channel 4 comes in at 60% and then all of a sudden drops the signal... then comes back... same with a few other channels...I have tried everything and am beginning to believe that it is something ( perhaps tree branches) that swings into the signal and blocks it....

David
Remember, the 60% number is NOT strength. It's telling you signal to noise ratio. You could still be very weak, which I doubt because you're getting more stations, or it helped flatten the waveshape of the signal (as seen on a scope). My guess is the latter. I agree, it's most likely the trees, as they move a little, causing the changes.
Also, watch for day to night changes in reception and let us know.
Dan

ARRG.

They (KOMO) managed to mangle the audio on the first minutes of LOST... AND! The all critical plot twist at the end. That was incredibly painful.

KOMO did the same in the last minute of Lost last week.

VERY frustrating. I assume only HD viewers are getting the treatment? I never remember problems like this when I got KOMO off my Dish Network box. I'll see soon, I guess. I am switching back to Dish for KOMO programs until they get their act together.

ARRG.

They (KOMO) managed to mangle the audio on the first minutes of LOST... AND! The all critical plot twist at the end. That was incredibly painful.

The same thing happened for comcast customers. I didnt know there was a plot twist until I read your post. Now I have to find the transcripts. KOMO changed their audio a few weeks ago, forcing everything to 5.1, in an effort to fix past audio glitches. Now it seems there are new audio problems.

The SD version of Lost did not have the problem, but yes, I noticed the Center channel loss on the HD version during the "Previously On" part in the begining and the last few minutes of the show. Very annoying. I'm glad I still record the DISH provided SD version as well as the HD. Talking with other in other parts of the country they did not have this problem so it appears to be KOMO related. This is 2 weeks in a row now. I hope they get this fixed ASAP.

See the KOMO description of their (acknowledged) problem here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7403422&&#post7403422

Yep, just watched the episode on DVR. Ughhh...

Yep, just watched the episode on DVR. Ughhh...That's how we saw it too, so when the vocal channel went out we couldn't even switch to the analog channel to get the dialog. Same thing last week at about the same point in the program.

Guess I'll have to start recording the analog channel on one of our Replays as a backup.

Tim

See the KOMO description of their (acknowledged) problem here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7403422&&#post7403422


Dave -

KOMO had a problem with one of the video processors crashing and needing a reboot. In the confusion, the Dolby encoder dropped the center channel.

I am told that KOMO will rerun "Lost" tomorrow, Saturday April 1, at 10 pm in Place of "Evidence'. Let's hope that it goes better then.

Don

Thanks, Don.

Will the rerun be in HD?

The same thing happened for comcast customers. I didnt know there was a plot twist until I read your post. Now I have to find the transcripts. KOMO changed their audio a few weeks ago, forcing everything to 5.1, in an effort to fix past audio glitches. Now it seems there are new audio problems.
When I discovered the center channel dead, I just backed up the recording and turned on closed captioning and watched it that way.

Thanks, Don.

Will the rerun be in HD?

That wasn't made clear to me, Dave.

That wasn't made clear to me, Dave.
Does KOMO-DT even have the capability for time shifting HD network programs in HD?

I, for one, appreciate the extra effort to rerun the program, even if it cannot be done in HD.

Art's idea of using closed captions is a good one.

Does KOMO-DT even have the capability for time shifting HD network programs in HD?

I, for one, appreciate the extra effort to rerun the program, even if it cannot be done in HD.

Art's idea of using closed captions is a good one.

The simple answer is yes. However, the last I heard, it took a special lashup. I will inquire about that when I am there next Tuesday.

The video on KCPQ / FOX 13 has been choppy for me the last few weeks, even when I'm getting excellent indicated signal strength and all other stations are smooth. I don't believe I had this problem a month ago. Any ideas what's going on? Has anyone else noticed this?

I use a Windows MCE PC. I thought that the issue was the PC or marginal signal strength, so I tried moving the antenna (Channel Master 4221) up to the attic. (I have been using it the basement where I still get 75% signal strength). I now get steady 100% indicated signal on KCPQ and all the major stations, yet KCPQ is the only one that is choppy.

Thanks,
Wallace
Seattle near the U Village

Scarlett Johansson on SNL (repeat) tonight, first time in HD for us :)

Hey! SNL on KING 5.1 is truely 16X9 and Full Screen! Great looking HD.

WAHOO! 1080i as it is supposed to look.

The video on KCPQ / FOX 13 has been choppy for me the last few weeks, even when I'm getting excellent indicated signal strength and all other stations are smooth. I don't believe I had this problem a month ago. Any ideas what's going on? Has anyone else noticed this?

I use a Windows MCE PC. I thought that the issue was the PC or marginal signal strength, so I tried moving the antenna (Channel Master 4221) up to the attic. (I have been using it the basement where I still get 75% signal strength). I now get steady 100% indicated signal on KCPQ and all the major stations, yet KCPQ is the only one that is choppy.

Thanks,
Wallace
Seattle near the U Village

Wallace
Depends on where you are. CH13 is rock solid here in Federal Way.
If you're in the gully where the Village is, 13 is a bit tougher, because of the distance, about 25 miles, and the UW is partially in the way. You're strength meter (signal to noise ratio, not really indicating amount of signal) isn't fast enough to catch little hiccups. Yes, normally, if it's 100%, life is good. If you're up on the hill NE of the Village, then it's most likely something else nearby.
Having the antenna in the attic does bring other problems into play. When the roof gets wet, you loose some, signal gets chopped up by the varying thickness of materials, electrical noises from wiring and more, etc.
You could be right on the ragged edge of minimum reception and not know it. It would still show 100%, but the slightest drop in actual level can start the jitters. There's also the possibility of electrical problems. If you start to loose a good ground to the power panel, or the connections get flaky in the wiring, as it goes from outlet to outlet, you can get voltage sags, not surges, which will also cause it to get shaky. Had one in a 3 year old house like that. Soon as we put a good line conditioner on the receiver, problem stopped.
I would start by just getting the antenna outside. Doesn't have to be up high, just so it can see south to southwest. Even on the side of the house will work, if there's no obstructions close by.
Dan

The simple answer is yes. However, the last I heard, it took a special lashup. I will inquire about that when I am there next Tuesday.
Well, whatever it took, they did a nice job rerunning the show in HD.

Zero problems on my end, although I missed the very beginning because I forgot to set up my HD TiVo to record it. It did appear in the DirecTV program guide for 10 pm Saturday night.

IMHO, this is another example of KOMO-DT's support for our little (but growing) group of HD viewers.

When I discovered the center channel dead, I just backed up the recording and turned on closed captioning and watched it that way.
This is a great idea and I'll have to remember it for next time. I found the transcript online, so at least I could see what was said.

http://www.lost-tv.com/transcripts/Lockdown_Lost.htm

Thanks for that transcript. I had missed the announcement that KOMO would rerun Lost, and missed it.

Hi,
I live in sammamish plateue (near 239th pl ne and 23 street). I recently bought a hdtv and tried my luck with indoor antennas (radio shack one and later with zenith silver sensor). I was not able to pick up any digital channels other than bellevue religious channels. I am interested in finding if any one else near that area had better luck with OTA and if so, what kind of antenna setup are you using. Is this area generally bad of OTA?

thanks
srini

Hi,
I live in sammamish plateue (near 239th pl ne and 23 street). I recently bought a hdtv and tried my luck with indoor antennas (radio shack one and later with zenith silver sensor). I was not able to pick up any digital channels other than bellevue religious channels. I am interested in finding if any one else near that area had better luck with OTA and if so, what kind of antenna setup are you using. Is this area generally bad of OTA?

thanks
srini

srini
You have a big hill about a 1.5 miles west that's blocking. I've done a few surveys around there, not much available. The ones you're getting are to the SE from Tiger Mt area. Cable or satellite will be the only way.
Dan

Hi,

It is about time to wake up this thread. Does anyone experience any change in UPN 11 signal? All of a sudden I could not get a reliable signal anymore (North Kenmore). The leaves are not out yet, and WB 22 is still solid.

Cheers,
Tuquet

Does anyone experience any change in UPN 11 signal?
No problems here in Redmond. I've been watching the M's game all evening and it's been pretty solid.

No problems here in Redmond. I've been watching the M's game all evening and it's been pretty solid.

Ditto

( Except for the part about the M's pitching being solid.....! )

Dan

After a little redirection I got the game but I was probably better off not getting it. By the way, going to the attic for that is a pain so I am thinking of going outside. I do need to pick Dan's or other experts' brain on some details.

1. I plan to mount under eaves, do I need to have it grounded?
2. It's 75ft from the anntenna to the cable inlet, then probably 20ft to the distribution panel, will I still have enough signal? Currently I run 20ft from the attic to the distribution panel.
3. I can make the run shorter by going directly from the antenna to the distribution panel (50ft) but that will compromise the coax grounding at the cable inlet. Will that do any harm? Can I ground it at the distribution panel via the electrical outlet?

Thanks,
Tuquet

After a little redirection I got the game but I was probably better off not getting it. By the way, going to the attic for that is a pain so I am thinking of going outside. I do need to pick Dan's or other experts' brain on some details.

1. I plan to mount under eaves, do I need to have it grounded?
2. It's 75ft from the anntenna to the cable inlet, then probably 20ft to the distribution panel, will I still have enough signal? Currently I run 20ft from the attic to the distribution panel.
3. I can make the run shorter by going directly from the antenna to the distribution panel (50ft) but that will compromise the coax grounding at the cable inlet. Will that do any harm? Can I ground it at the distribution panel via the electrical outlet?

Thanks,
Tuquet

If it's under the eaves, you probably don't need to ground it. Just be sure to get it far enough below the eaves so you can see the towers. The signal doesn't come in level but at a slight up angle. Run the cable to the panel. It you want to ground it, do NOT use electrical ground. Run a separate ground wire from the panel to a metal water pipe. Better still, just mount a grund block near the antenna, and run a ground wire down to a ground rod. Or, run the ground wire around to the existing ground rod. You won't loose as much signal either way. Will you have enough? Hard to say. Most likely, the small loss in extra cable will be made up by the gain from being outside.
Dan

Hey! SNL on KING 5.1 is truely 16X9 and Full Screen! Great looking HD.
WAHOO! 1080i as it is supposed to look.Just noticed that, wow what a difference, my little 26" looks HUGE now!LOL :D

A couple of us discussed this a while back, seeing that they had changed the designation on Titan TV for SNL to the bold letter HD in red, but still no full screen. Perhaps it was in preparation for this change.

It was mentioned that they were sending a 16:9 broadcast to the west coast via 4:3 due to their quibbling over the 5 minutes it went over a HD payed for time slot when Pacific Time is factored in.

I don't know if that was true or not, but I did write NBC about it asking what was up with the small screen SNL. I got no answer, but seeing it full screen now is good enough for me any day! ;)

If it's under the eaves, you probably don't need to ground it. Just be sure to get it far enough below the eaves so you can see the towers. The signal doesn't come in level but at a slight up angle. Run the cable to the panel. It you want to ground it, do NOT use electrical ground. Run a separate ground wire from the panel to a metal water pipe. Better still, just mount a grund block near the antenna, and run a ground wire down to a ground rod. Or, run the ground wire around to the existing ground rod. You won't loose as much signal either way. Will you have enough? Hard to say. Most likely, the small loss in extra cable will be made up by the gain from being outside.
DanThank you Dan.

Just tried a Terk TV32 outdoor medium range antenna from CC up here near Stanwood. I know, Terk has a bad rep, but I thought I would give it a shot. I live on top of a 440 ft. hill with fairly dense trees about 100 ft. from the house, address is in the 7600 block of 150th PL NW. AntennaWeb shows 35 miles to Seattle and 46 to Tacoma.

To see if it worked at all I temporarily placed it at ground level on a 6ft. ladder facing Seattle and cobbled together three different cheapo indoor coax cables with old splitters to reach my TV. Surprisingly all but channel 5.1 came in with good signal strength, even 13 in Tacoma, no dropouts at all. I couldn't get 5 (it had a very weak signal) no matter which way I aimed the antenna, yet 4 and 7 had strong signals and are at the same bearing as 5. I checked HD 5 on my cable system and it was working fine.

Any ideas as to why 5 wouldn't come in?

I borrowed a Silver Sensor indoor antenna about a year ago and 5 was one of the few stations that I could get at all, strange.

My plan is to corner wall mount it on the second story (wife says nothing on the roof) and run about 50 ft. of good coax. Any other suggestions? The Terk is going back to CC because it had some minor damage, maybe the DB4 from Antenna's Direct?

Just tried a Terk TV32 outdoor medium range antenna from CC up here near Stanwood. I know, Terk has a bad rep, but I thought I would give it a shot. I live on top of a 440 ft. hill with fairly dense trees about 100 ft. from the house, address is in the 7600 block of 150th PL NW. AntennaWeb shows 35 miles to Seattle and 46 to Tacoma.

To see if it worked at all I temporarily placed it at ground level on a 6ft. ladder facing Seattle and cobbled together three different cheapo indoor coax cables with old splitters to reach my TV. Surprisingly all but channel 5.1 came in with good signal strength, even 13 in Tacoma, no dropouts at all. I couldn't get 5 (it had a very weak signal) no matter which way I aimed the antenna, yet 4 and 7 had strong signals and are at the same bearing as 5. I checked HD 5 on my cable system and it was working fine.

Any ideas as to why 5 wouldn't come in?

I borrowed a Silver Sensor indoor antenna about a year ago and 5 was one of the few stations that I could get at all, strange.

My plan is to corner wall mount it on the second story (wife says nothing on the roof) and run about 50 ft. of good coax. Any other suggestions? The Terk is going back to CC because it had some minor damage, maybe the DB4 from Antenna's Direct?

eric102
Most likely a combination of trees, antenna, cable with a ding in it, any of which can put a "hole" in the frequencies received. In any case, you're actually in a pretty good spot, obviously.
Try a Channel Master 4221. It's about the same style, but will work a little better. Or, you're far enough out, go for a 4228. Fry's has them in Renton. You can mount the antenna on the side of the house, if you want. Try and put it in the same line of sight that you had the ladder. It will be a good place to start.
Dan

Thanks for the info Dan, do you know of anyone north of Seattle that might sell the Channel Masters?

KING seems to be the station having issues lately. SNL jumped back to the small picture this Saturday a long way into the show, and I think it was L&O (whatever shows at 9:00 on Sunday) that did the same thing part way through.

Thanks for the info Dan, do you know of anyone north of Seattle that might sell the Channel Masters?

I was referred to Pringles in Everett when I was looking for a 4221. I called them but they didn't stock them at the time, but they would special order them. I then checked AVSForum sponsors and found that solidsignal.com could get me one in less time, for almost half the cost of Pringles so I bought one from there. This was a little over a year ago. However, my neighbor just bought one from Solid Signal a few weeks back, price was still the same and he got it delivered in less than a week with standard shipping.

Oh, wanted to add another thing. If one of your reasons for wanting a local dealer is returning the product if it doesn't work, don't use Pringles. When I spoke with them last year they informed me that all sales are final on antenna products.

If your are looking to see if a 4221 will work for you but don't want to buy until you are sure, Fry's has the 4228 in stock and has a 30day return policy. I originally had one of these, thinking that it was necessary for my location, but had problems getting 13 and the Queen Anne stations at the same time. That was when some on here mentioned the 4221 has a wider reception path so I bought the 4221, sure enough it was better, so back went the 4228.

Well, I put on a new coax cable instead of the cobbled together mess I had. No difference in signal strength for any of the stations, so much for the "cables make a difference" theory.

Time to try the 4221. Thanks Rob for Solid Signal lead.

KING seems to be the station having issues lately. SNL jumped back to the small picture this Saturday a long way into the show, and I think it was L&O (whatever shows at 9:00 on Sunday) that did the same thing part way through.
Both Law & Order: Criminal Intent and Crossing Jordon were shown in 4x3 & "letterbox" format on KING this weekend. Makes the picture a really tiny rectangle (black bars on the sides and top). However, since it was broadcast in HD, my TV wouldn't stretch it. Argh!

Basically it looked like KING was broadcasting SD on their HD channel. Just FYI, West Wing (which precedes L&O) was shown in the proper format (16x9) and broadcast in HD.

It's really annoying, and something that used to happen a year ago quite a bit on KING. The OTA broadcast often wouldn't return to 16x9 properly after commercials. But this problem lasted through two full shows.

Anyone know why this happens?

Anyone know why this happens?

Can't say for sure for this instance but a lot of times this happens when an affiliate is having problems with the HD feed from a network or with their HD equipment so they simply switch to their SD feed instead. Over the last year I've seen this happen the most on KOMO, less frequently on KING, and I think once on KCPQ.

My guess was something happened to their HD equipment or the HD feed after West Wing so they switched to the SD feed until it could be resolved. Also, it's possible it was resolved quicker but they forgot to switch the feed back. Who knows. It would take someone from KING to answer this completely.

Well, I put on a new coax cable instead of the cobbled together mess I had. No difference in signal strength for any of the stations, so much for the "cables make a difference" theory.

Time to try the 4221. Thanks Rob for Solid Signal lead.
You might want to consider a Radio Shack 15-2160 first. It's cheap, easy to find and easy to return.

Well, I put on a new coax cable instead of the cobbled together mess I had. No difference in signal strength for any of the stations, so much for the "cables make a difference" theory.

Time to try the 4221. Thanks Rob for Solid Signal lead.

eric102
Pringles is out of business. I don't know of anyone local selling 4221's, but I would try the 4228. Easier to get, Fry's will let you return it, and you won't have the sensitivity issue that Rob had because of your location and distance.
Dan

I might try the Radio Shack U75 first since there are 2 stores within 10 miles of me.

Recently I have noticed trouble with the sound being out of synch on Late Night With David Letterman. It is like watching a badly dubbed foreign movie. I have not had any other problems with KIRO shows. Has anyone else noticed this? Is it a network problem or a local one? Thanks, Charles

I just got my tuner yesterday and I need an antenna. I'm near 100th Ave NE and NE 145th St on the border of Bothell and Kirkland.

I've checked antenna web and Topo and I've got a big hill between me and Seattle. CBS/NBC/ABC are Violet. PBS is Red.

So the recommendation is "Large Directional w/ pre-amp." Is that what I really need to get a watchable signal? How big is "large directional?"

An on-line antenna dealer suggested I only pay attention to distance which for me is 10mi for CBS/NBC/ABC/PBS and 20 for other stations.

I'm anxious to get an antenna today, anything that might bring a channel or two in. Any places on the Eastside with a good selection?

Thanks.

I can't speak to your antenna and reception opportunity, but I can tell you that, if your tuner is QAM-capable, your contingency plan could be Comcast Limited Basic cable, at less than $15 per month. You can receive all non-encrypted digital OTA-equivalent channels that Comcast offers, including ABC-4, NBC-5, CBS-7, PBS-9 (2 digital channels + 1 HD), FOX-13, KONG-16 and WB-22. They do not carry UPN-11. If you tuner does not map the channels from the native frequencies over cable, you would have to tune them in in the 70's, 80's, 90's instead of 4, 5, 7, etc.

You would also receive the analog NTSC SD channels from 2-29 and a few other higher-numbered channels.

Yes, it supports QAM. $15? I have a strong distaste for Comcast but I could stomach $15 if there was no other way. I can't seem to find limited basic on their website or anything under $30.

The other issue is that I don't normally watch TV, just DVDs and the occasional ********** divx show. I just want the occasional HDTV eye-candy and maybe local news.

Comcast does not promote the Limited Cable (a.k.a., Limited Basic Cable), but they do offer it because they are required to by law. Last I looked, it was $13 plus taxes. I subscribe to that becasue it gives me a $10 discount on my Comcast high-speed internet. So the cable TV really only costs me $3 per month.

I personally don't use the digital channels via cable because I have excellent OTA and DirecTV. But i know other folks who do watch HDTV over Comcast Limited Cable.

I too have a strong distaste for Comcast, only because for years their service (and that of their predecessors in our area) was noisey, ghosty and off-line way too much.

The Limited Cable channel line-up can be selected and viewed from their web site Channel Lineup page after you enter your address and/or zipcode. For our zipcode (South King County), the channel line-up does not include KIRO-HD (107 on their listing), apparently because for a long time they did not carry it. But they do carry it now, they are just sloppy with their web site.

That's a good point. I also have their high-speed internet. I'll have to think a little harder about option.

I am new to OTA and am located in Vancouver, Canada. I would be taking a trip down to Seattle next week and would appreciate any suggestion for where I can pickup the CM4228 in Seattle area.

From reading some of the past post, Fry's (down in Renton) would be one of the choice. Any others? Lowe's?

Thanks in advance.

I can't speak to your antenna and reception opportunity, but I can tell you that, if your tuner is QAM-capable, your contingency plan could be Comcast Limited Basic cable, at less than $15 per month. You can receive all non-encrypted digital OTA-equivalent channels that Comcast offers, including ABC-4, NBC-5, CBS-7, PBS-9 (2 digital channels + 1 HD), FOX-13, KONG-16. They do not carry UPN-11 and WB-22. If you tuner does not map the channels from the native frequencies over cable, you would have to tune them in in the 70's, 80's, 90's instead of 4, 5, 7, etc.

You would also receive the analog NTSC SD channels from 2-29 and a few other higher-numbered channels.

The do carry WB-22. With my Zenith TV/QAM tuner, WB is on digital 81-2. FOX is 81-1. You are correct that they don't carry UPN just yet.

The do carry WB-22. With my Zenith TV/QAM tuner, WB is on digital 81-2. FOX is 81-1. You are correct that they don't carry UPN just yet.
Mike,

Thanks for the correction.

I could not remember if they carried WB-22 in HD, so I looked on their web site, and is was NOT listed. But there are lots of things out of date on their web site.

I updated my earlier post to show WB-22 digital available on Comcast.

I just got my tuner yesterday and I need an antenna. I'm near 100th Ave NE and NE 145th St on the border of Bothell and Kirkland.

I've checked antenna web and Topo and I've got a big hill between me and Seattle. CBS/NBC/ABC are Violet. PBS is Red.

So the recommendation is "Large Directional w/ pre-amp." Is that what I really need to get a watchable signal? How big is "large directional?"

An on-line antenna dealer suggested I only pay attention to distance which for me is 10mi for CBS/NBC/ABC/PBS and 20 for other stations.

I'm anxious to get an antenna today, anything that might bring a channel or two in. Any places on the Eastside with a good selection?

Thanks.

That large hill will block the HD signals completely so you would only be able to pick up reflected signals, which is pretty dicey. I agree with the other posters - forget OTA and go with Comcast or a dish.

I am new to OTA and am located in Vancouver, Canada. I would be taking a trip down to Seattle next week and would appreciate any suggestion for where I can pickup the CM4228 in Seattle area.

From reading some of the past post, Fry's (down in Renton) would be one of the choice. Any others? Lowe's?

Thanks in advance.


I tried Lowes, all they carry are the larger CM VHF/UHF antenna's. Sounds like Frys is the only place.

I am new to OTA and am located in Vancouver, Canada. I would be taking a trip down to Seattle next week and would appreciate any suggestion for where I can pickup the CM4228 in Seattle area.

From reading some of the past post, Fry's (down in Renton) would be one of the choice. Any others? Lowe's?

Thanks in advance.

I wouldn't count on ever finding anything at Fry's in Renton. I live about 10-15 minutes from there, and no matter what I'm looking for, more than half the time they don't have it. I did look for CM antennas there (sorry, don't remember the model) and didn't find what I was looking for.

When it comes to Fry's in Renton - you have to ask. I couldn't find any sign of the 4228 until I did. They seem to have antennas in about five different places - some not even in view or even near TV supplies. Mine was over with the computer equipment. Traveling that far, you might want to give them a call first.

Just called Fry's, they claim to have 5 in stock.

The Radio Shack U-75R (15-2160) was a bust compared to the Terk TV32 from CC. I lost all the Tacoma stations (45 miles) and lost 10% signal strength on the Seattle stations (35 miles). The only thing going for it was I picked up the King stations which the Terk had a very weak signal and I couldn't get a picture.

This antenna stuff is fun, off to Renton I go.

Does anyone know if UPN (or it's successor) will ever broadcast the Mariners in Hi Def?

When it comes to Fry's in Renton - you have to ask. I couldn't find any sign of the 4228 until I did. They seem to have antennas in about five different places - some not even in view or even near TV supplies. Mine was over with the computer equipment. Traveling that far, you might want to give them a call first.

I second that. Definetly go and ask someone right away. These antennas are not with the others. They are up above the UPS units over in the computer section, at least when I got mine.

When you get there, go to the far right of the store where the antenna parts are and go to the customer service desk there and say you need a Channel Master 4228. Depending on who you get they may or may not know where they are. You may need a supervisor to help you.

When it comes to Fry's in Renton - you have to ask. I couldn't find any sign of the 4228 until I did. They seem to have antennas in about five different places - some not even in view or even near TV supplies. Mine was over with the computer equipment. Traveling that far, you might want to give them a call first.

I found at least two of the places when I was there (front right and left back as I recall).

But the person who I was responding to was in Vancouver, BC. Driving all that way to ask really doesn't seem like a very good option, even with a call first. :D

We do have Dish Network with a new HD DVR & I've read that locals in HD are planned for Q2 this year. But, since the DVR can also record from OTA, I'd like to try to get them. So far, we haven't had much luck. When we first got our Sony HDTV & did a scan we did get KOMO, 4.1 briefly, so I know it should be possible.

We are near Petrovitsky Rd. & SE 221st St at 530' elevation & the antenna on a 10' mast on top of a 2-story house. I used the King County parcel maps with elevation data & drew a line from the middle tower on Queen Anne to our house. The line goes right over the 800' line on the NE side of the large (900') hill that is just east of Lake Desire. Is there any hope?

We do have Dish Network with a new HD DVR & I've read that locals in HD are planned for Q2 this year. But, since the DVR can also record from OTA, I'd like to try to get them. So far, we haven't had much luck. When we first got our Sony HDTV & did a scan we did get KOMO, 4.1 briefly, so I know it should be possible.

We are near Petrovitsky Rd. & SE 221st St at 530' elevation & the antenna on a 10' mast on top of a 2-story house. I used the King County parcel maps with elevation data & drew a line from the middle tower on Queen Anne to our house. The line goes right over the 800' line on the NE side of the large (900') hill that is just east of Lake Desire. Is there any hope?

I'm a couple of miles NW of you, right between Lake Desire and Shady Lake. I get all the major OTA stations using an antenna in my attic. However, the angle may be such that the hill east of Lake Desire isn't between me and Seattle.

Are you able to get KCPQ on 13.1(18.1)? That broadcasts from Gold Mountain, near Bremerton, so the hill shouldn't interfere at all. That might be a good test to make sure everything is setup correctly.

Are you able to get KCPQ on 13.1(18.1)? That broadcasts from Gold Mountain, near Bremerton, so the hill shouldn't interfere at all. That might be a good test to make sure everything is setup correctly.
I can barely get an analog signal from KCPQ. Although there isn't a "hill" that direction, it goes up to 600'+ over a couple of miles. I forgot to mention that I can get great signals from PAX & those shopping channels with their transmitters on Tiger mountain.

PeggyD,

You did not mention what type of antenna you have, and whether you have re-aimed it at all to try for these stations.

I am further west of drewba (in Fairwood West) and I am not blocked the terrain--lucky for me!

PeggyD,

You did not mention what type of antenna you have, and whether you have re-aimed it at all to try for these stations.

I am further west of drewba (in Fairwood West) and I am not blocked the terrain--lucky for me!

When we first scanned we were using a Radio Shack VHF/UHF 120" antenna. Sorry, I can't post a link, I haven't made enough posts yet. Then we got an Antennas Direct 43XG Uni-Directional (Yagi). We've tried both on a rotator as well as moving them to different spots on the roof.

We do have Dish Network with a new HD DVR & I've read that locals in HD are planned for Q2 this year. But, since the DVR can also record from OTA, I'd like to try to get them. So far, we haven't had much luck. When we first got our Sony HDTV & did a scan we did get KOMO, 4.1 briefly, so I know it should be possible.

We are near Petrovitsky Rd. & SE 221st St at 530' elevation & the antenna on a 10' mast on top of a 2-story house. I used the King County parcel maps with elevation data & drew a line from the middle tower on Queen Anne to our house. The line goes right over the 800' line on the NE side of the large (900') hill that is just east of Lake Desire. Is there any hope?

I plotted your line-of-sight on my topo program and that big hill (a.k.a. Cedar Mountain) is definitely blocking your path. You would need at least a 75-foot tower to get past it. Any OTA you pick up sporadically will be from reflections and will be very unreliable. I would not waste any more time or money on OTA.

I plotted your line-of-sight on my topo program and that big hill (a.k.a. Cedar Mountain) is definitely blocking your path. You would need at least a 75-foot tower to get past it. Any OTA you pick up sporadically will be from reflections and will be very unreliable. I would not waste any more time or money on OTA.
Thanks, I was afraid of that. That certainly explains why we got a signal once & never again.

I see we have another Fox channel 13-2.

I see we have another Fox channel 13-2.
What's on it?

I see we have another Fox channel 13-2.

Interesting. I remember thinking on Monday while watching some fast action scences of 24 thinking that it was strange that I was seeing more motion artifacts than normal on this station, really reminded me of channel 7 or 5, now I know why. I wish everyone would stop multicasting, at least when HD content is on.

Picked up a CM 4228 at Frys last weekend to see if it would work any better than the Terk TV32 at picking up the King stations up here in Stanwood. Just looking at it you would assume it would be able to pick up some stations in Portland, its huge and heavy compared to the Terk. It looks like its made out of common galvanized sheet metals and galvanized fencing material, the bowties might be aluminum.

Its a beast to move around looking for the right hot spots, very top heavy on a 5 ft. mast so temporary placement for testing is challenging. The Terk and the Radio Shack U-75R are fairly small and mostly aluminum, you can lift them with one finger.

After a lot of testing I found that it worked best at the same locations as the other two and only had slightly better performance than the Terk, maybe 2% on the channels that the Terk picked up. On the King channels it did better, but not good enough for the tuner to lock on, got a signal strength of 45, the Terk was about 20.

So I still can't get King, any other suggestions for a medium size non roof top antenna?

So I still can't get King, any other suggestions for a medium size non roof top antenna?

It's an outdoor antenna, but you may want to give the CM4221 a shot. I found it actually performed better than the CM4228 for me. It's basically have a CM4228 but it has a wider reception path. It's also much easier to mount outside, not nearly the size or weight. You can get them online for about $30.00 including shipping. I got mine from Solid Signal.

I don't think that the reception path is the issue, the azimuth from Stanwood to the King towers is exactly the same as to the Kiro and Komo towers. Those two come in great, about an 80 signal strength. I wonder if King just puts out an inferior signal?

I see we have another Fox channel 13-2.

I've scanned my tuner in my HTPC and only get 13-1. Anyone else confirm that there is 13-1 and 13-2 now?

I don't think that the reception path is the issue, the azimuth from Stanwood to the King towers is exactly the same as to the Kiro and Komo towers. Those two come in great, about an 80 signal strength. I wonder if King just puts out an inferior signal?
The reality is that the KING, KOMO and KIRO towers on Queen Anne hill are separate and some distance apart from each other. I can't recall offhand which is west-most, east-most and in between. But the separation is enough to cause the kinds of reception difficulties that you seem to be fighting.

I would suggest trying different places for the antenna if possible, moving horizontally more so than vertically. Perhaps you have some obstacle or relfection that affects only the KING stations (KING and KONG are on the same tower).

Another option is to look at the reception of the analog KONG station since it is UHF, although at the lower end of the band (channel 16) than both KING-DT (channel 48) and KONG-DT (can't recall their DT channel assignment).

Some people have used the analog KONG-16 and KTWB-22 for a coarse look at their reception issues for Quenn Anne and Capitol Hill respectively. Checking the ghosting and stability of those analog signals gives a rough indication of multipath issues. Checking the noise level (amount of "snow" in the picture, if any) gives a rough idea of the signal strength.

Good luck!

I've scanned my tuner in my HTPC and only get 13-1. Anyone else confirm that there is 13-1 and 13-2 now?
I saw both channels last night, with both showing the same programming. This is the same condition we saw many months ago after they were forced to stop broadcasting each other's digital channel on their -2 subchannel.

As of last night, both 13 and 22 each have a -2 subchannel currently showing the same programming as their -1 subchannel. Both stations are owned by Tribune Broadcasting.

I tried scanning with my Dish ViP622 and only got the 13-1 today. Maybe they're experimenting?

I don't have it scanned in, and I did not try to. But if I direct enter 13-2 it comes up on my DirecTV Hughes E86 HD receiver. Interesting that the program guide info show programs from WB-22, but the actual programs playing (again last night, not at home today) were KCPQ, just the same as on 13-1.

I did not try this on my HR10-250 HD TiVo DirecTV receiver yet.

I saw both channels last night, with both showing the same programming. This is the same condition we saw many months ago after they were forced to stop broadcasting each other's digital channel on their -2 subchannel.

As of last night, both 13 and 22 each have a -2 subchannel currently showing the same programming as their -1 subchannel. Both stations are owned by Tribune Broadcasting.
When I was trying to get an OTA from anywhere other than Tiger Mountain, I was trying to pinpoint the exact location of the KCPQ tower on Gold Mountain. In looking around the Kitsap County web site, I did find that KCPQ had an open permit for a new tower/transmitter in the same location. Maybe they are just upgrading their transmitter.

Picked up a CM 4228 at Frys last weekend to see if it would work any better than the Terk TV32 at picking up the King stations up here in Stanwood. Just looking at it you would assume it would be able to pick up some stations in Portland, its huge and heavy compared to the Terk. It looks like its made out of common galvanized sheet metals and galvanized fencing material, the bowties might be aluminum.

Its a beast to move around looking for the right hot spots, very top heavy on a 5 ft. mast so temporary placement for testing is challenging. The Terk and the Radio Shack U-75R are fairly small and mostly aluminum, you can lift them with one finger.

After a lot of testing I found that it worked best at the same locations as the other two and only had slightly better performance than the Terk, maybe 2% on the channels that the Terk picked up. On the King channels it did better, but not good enough for the tuner to lock on, got a signal strength of 45, the Terk was about 20.

So I still can't get King, any other suggestions for a medium size non roof top antenna?

eric102
The small increase of ch5, as indicated, is NOT how much more signal you're getting, just that you have more signal compared to background noise, or signal to noise ratio. It does say your on the right track.
You could've actually increased real levels a lot, but if the signal is "chopped up", not a flat signal as viewed on a scope, then it won't show a big increase.
What to do next.
You most likely need to get the signal a bit stronger. The better indications from other channels could mean you're just over minimums, but still really weak. That's the funny part of HD reception. Once over minimum levels, around -13db, you could have as much as 50 times more signal level, and the readings would still be the same. The working channels might be only a few db's stronger. Try a preamp, the 7775 by Channel Master.
Also, from where you are, all the signals are basically one direction, as far as the 4228 is concerned. Turning it slightly might make a difference, but you'll find it's not that fussy. That's why a 4221 isn't going to help. It is a wider antenna, but you don't need that. More clean, level signal will make the day.
You could try all kinds of antennas. However, my experience and your comments suggests two things. Try it up on the roof, and get a 7775. If I were to come out there for a survey, the two antennas I would bring would be the 4228 and the 4248. Again, from your comments and location, the 4248 might be something to try, but I doubt it will make much difference.
Dan

I don't have it scanned in, and I did not try to. But if I direct enter 13-2 it comes up on my DirecTV Hughes E86 HD receiver. Interesting that the program guide info show programs from WB-22, but the actual programs playing (again last night, not at home today) were KCPQ, just the same as on 13-1.

I did not try this on my HR10-250 HD TiVo DirecTV receiver yet.
I get 13-2 and 22-2 subchannels on both of my HD TiVo's, last night and this morning.

I found at least two of the places when I was there (front right and left back as I recall).

But the person who I was responding to was in Vancouver, BC. Driving all that way to ask really doesn't seem like a very good option, even with a call first. :D

Thanks for the info, Karyk and forum junkie. I was in Seattle earlier this week. On Tuesday, was near Boeing Field and had some spare time so I through to give Fry's a try. Ask the guy at the entrance where I can fine OTA antennas and he suggested to first go the computer counter (nearer) on the right or the TV counter all the way to the back. After checking with the computer, the guy said they have 4 in the store so I am now a proud owner of a CM4228.

Thanks again.

Picked up a CM 4228 at Frys last weekend to see if it would work any better than the Terk TV32 at picking up the King stations up here in Stanwood. Just looking at it you would assume it would be able to pick up some stations in Portland, its huge and heavy compared to the Terk. It looks like its made out of common galvanized sheet metals and galvanized fencing material, the bowties might be aluminum.

Its a beast to move around looking for the right hot spots, very top heavy on a 5 ft. mast so temporary placement for testing is challenging. The Terk and the Radio Shack U-75R are fairly small and mostly aluminum, you can lift them with one finger.

After a lot of testing I found that it worked best at the same locations as the other two and only had slightly better performance than the Terk, maybe 2% on the channels that the Terk picked up. On the King channels it did better, but not good enough for the tuner to lock on, got a signal strength of 45, the Terk was about 20.

So I still can't get King, any other suggestions for a medium size non roof top antenna?
I think at your distance you will have to go with a rooftop unit. The other popular CM unit is the 4248. It is a yagi style and reacts differently than the 4228 in many situations. It might do the trick. As Dan suggested, an amplifier may also help, or it may not. HD reception is a real crap-shoot in some locations and there is no magic piece of equipment that will tell you what the problem is exactly.

I found a spot about 10ft. from the house on top of a small shed that I can pick up King and all of the other Seattle and Tacoma stations. I get occasional breakups on King so I may try a pre amplifier as Dan suggested.

I had tried this same line of sight as a wall mount on the back of my 2 story house and the reception was poor on many of the stations, yet 10ft. away from the wall and its great. I guess the wall must have been doing something to the signals.

I know a roof top antenna would be best, but until the wife is gone for a few days that isn't going to happen.

I know the trees are leafing out. Still I was surprised to see that KOMO's signal dropped 30 percent at my place. All my other OTA locals appear to be unchanged.

Anyone else notice a drop in the KOMO signal level this weekend?

I know the trees are leafing out. Still I was surprised to see that KOMO's signal dropped 30 percent at my place. All my other OTA locals appear to be unchanged.

Anyone else notice a drop in the KOMO signal level this weekend?

I just checked 4,5,7 and yes 4 is lower than the others but I still get good reception (of course at 6 miles a coat hanger would work as an antenna). But I remember 4,5,7 being pretty equal on the meter before. I am starting to have trouble with 13 now because my aim is too far south after I moved the antenna. Looks like another trip to the roof is in order.

I know the trees are leafing out. Still I was surprised to see that KOMO's signal dropped 30 percent at my place. All my other OTA locals appear to be unchanged.

Anyone else notice a drop in the KOMO signal level this weekend?

wezar
Didn't watch it that much this weekend, but did an install saturday, looked fine, and what I would expect. At home, now, measuring normal db's.
Dan

I found a spot about 10ft. from the house on top of a small shed that I can pick up King and all of the other Seattle and Tacoma stations. I get occasional breakups on King so I may try a pre amplifier as Dan suggested.

I had tried this same line of sight as a wall mount on the back of my 2 story house and the reception was poor on many of the stations, yet 10ft. away from the wall and its great. I guess the wall must have been doing something to the signals.

I know a roof top antenna would be best, but until the wife is gone for a few days that isn't going to happen.

eric102
Well done. The wall won't affect a 4228 style, as long as it's behind the screen. You just found a better spot. Try the shed with the preamp, first, befroe the roof. It might just do it and keep herself happy, which is always a good thing!
Dan

if you're watching OTA, please take the PQ poll here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=671600

Thanks!

wezar
Didn't watch it that much this weekend, but did an install saturday, looked fine, and what I would expect. At home, now, measuring normal db's.
Dan


Thanks for the input. I am not sure what it was.. Seems to be back to normal now. I never had any dropouts. Just noticed the signal level drop. Just looking for an excuse to change something out I guess. Same setup for a couple three years.

The reality is that the KING, KOMO and KIRO towers on Queen Anne hill are separate and some distance apart from each other. I can't recall offhand which is west-most, east-most and in between. But the separation is enough to cause the kinds of reception difficulties that you seem to be fighting.

I would suggest trying different places for the antenna if possible, moving horizontally more so than vertically. Perhaps you have some obstacle or relfection that affects only the KING stations (KING and KONG are on the same tower).

Another option is to look at the reception of the analog KONG station since it is UHF, although at the lower end of the band (channel 16) than both KING-DT (channel 48) and KONG-DT (can't recall their DT channel assignment).

Some people have used the analog KONG-16 and KTWB-22 for a coarse look at their reception issues for Quenn Anne and Capitol Hill respectively. Checking the ghosting and stability of those analog signals gives a rough indication of multipath issues. Checking the noise level (amount of "snow" in the picture, if any) gives a rough idea of the signal strength.

Good luck!

I have not had any probelms in two years and now in the last few weeks I have noticed the KING signal has weakened quite a bit to the point it won't come in. KONG is fine and that's what confuses me. ALL the other channels come in great with absolutely no problems. Did they change the power level or any equipment? :confused:

Since KING-DT broadcasts on one of the higher UHF channels, it may be more likely to suffer from minor fluctations in signal quality (i.e., higher frequency rolloff) that could occur in your wiring between your antenna and receiver. I would suggest checking each connection in the path for corrosion and a tight, waterproof fit. It's free and not too time consuming. Expansion and contraction with weather changes can have an impact.

Hopefully you will find a simpler solution than dealing with trees whose spring growth and leaves could have become obstacles.

Hi all-

I just moved to North Bend and am wondering if there is any possibility of receiving OTA HD signals from Seattle. My landlord said because we are in a valley it has always been hard to get OTA signals.

I live near the intersection of 412th Way SE and SE 130th.

I'd give you a link to a google map but the board won't let me post URLs.

TIA

Matt

I'm also wondering if those rates are fixed or variable. When KIRO showed HD football there was no indication that a low bitrate was used.

(moves discussion back to OTA thread...)

Now that I can do it, I'm going to monitor from time to time. I checked two consecutive days, and all the channels were the same. BTW, I had UPN at about 14.7mb/s.

I would like to see what's what during NFL and other sports though.

Hi all-

I just moved to North Bend and am wondering if there is any possibility of receiving OTA HD signals from Seattle. My landlord said because we are in a valley it has always been hard to get OTA signals.

I live near the intersection of 412th Way SE and SE 130th.

I'd give you a link to a google map but the board won't let me post URLs.

TIA

Matt
Matt - I hate to bring bad news but I plotted your line-of-sight path to the Seattle towers and it looks bleak. You're at about 450 feet but there is 1900 feet of mountain between you and the towers. Not a snowball's chance in...
Check out the major dish networks. They are adding more HD nearly every month. DirecTV seems to be the favorite around here.

I have not had any probelms in two years and now in the last few weeks I have noticed the KING signal has weakened quite a bit to the point it won't come in. KONG is fine and that's what confuses me. ALL the other channels come in great with absolutely no problems. Did they change the power level or any equipment? :confused:

McFly9000
A couple things come to mind.
If you didn't seal the balun and connection, it could be rusting inside. The Channel Master baluns looked sealed, but aren't. Replacing it can be a quick cheap fix.
You most likely are loosing signal on all channels, but you won't notice with the "meter" in your receiver. As long as you have enough clean signal, it will say I'm happy. Once you get below about -13db, it starts to get ragged. Above that, your numbers can still be about the same clear up to +20db or more. If ch5 was the weakest of the bunch, it will be the first to show dropout.
Also, how did you run the cable from the tree to the house? If it's not direct burial type, then it might be getting moisture inside if it's in the ground. It corrodes the aluminum foil, and creates resistance, and will eventually go completely out. If it's mounted in pipe, you may be getting some water inside it, and doing the same thing. If you do have direct burial cable, has any one been digging around it or dinged it in some way. Once cable gets bent or kinked, even if the jacket is not pierced, it can affect certain frequencies and not others. If the cable crosses under a dirt or gravel driveway, traffic can eventually damage it, if it wasn't buried deep enough.
Dan

I just moved from Renton to Kent and am wondering what kind of luck I might have with OTA. I live just southeast of the intersection of SR 516 and 116th Ave SE.

I just moved from Renton to Kent and am wondering what kind of luck I might have with OTA. I live just southeast of the intersection of SR 516 and 116th Ave SE.

C Weatherbee
It's fairly good. I have several within blocks of you. What can give problems are the trees. It can get fussy trying to find the right spot for everything. Patience will win out. There's usually adequate level, as long as you're outside. Just keep moving the antenna around until they all come in. Height will help somewhat, but isn't a big factor.
Dan

Seems KOMO-DT is down. Analog is fine. :confused:

Seems KOMO-DT is down. Analog is fine. :confused:


I wonder if it is related to the technical problems experienced during the local news? I really enjoyed watching our local newscasters deal with not being able to go to commercial due to apparent hardware problems. They did a great job in my opinion.

For detailed information on digital tv got to nwbroadcasterscom



Mike

McFly9000
A couple things come to mind.
If you didn't seal the balun and connection, it could be rusting inside. The Channel Master baluns looked sealed, but aren't. Replacing it can be a quick cheap fix.
You most likely are loosing signal on all channels, but you won't notice with the "meter" in your receiver. As long as you have enough clean signal, it will say I'm happy. Once you get below about -13db, it starts to get ragged. Above that, your numbers can still be about the same clear up to +20db or more. If ch5 was the weakest of the bunch, it will be the first to show dropout.
Also, how did you run the cable from the tree to the house? If it's not direct burial type, then it might be getting moisture inside if it's in the ground. It corrodes the aluminum foil, and creates resistance, and will eventually go completely out. If it's mounted in pipe, you may be getting some water inside it, and doing the same thing. If you do have direct burial cable, has any one been digging around it or dinged it in some way. Once cable gets bent or kinked, even if the jacket is not pierced, it can affect certain frequencies and not others. If the cable crosses under a dirt or gravel driveway, traffic can eventually damage it, if it wasn't buried deep enough.
Dan

The cable just runs down the tree and along the ground to the house. I can't imagine anything happened to it, maybe an animal chewed on it. I had a maple tree right in front of my antenna, about 75 feet in the air and on the edge of a huge bank that broke off this last winter in the wind. My "signal strength" actually increased on the meter on the receiver. The view from the antenna is wide open, just the tops of some cottonwoods in the distance. Next time I go up there I will take a picture of the view from the antenna.

The pre amp I am using is a Winegard AP8283. It has been outside for about 5 years. It has that 300 ohm wire from the antenna to the pre amp box and then coax on down.

As a couple of you said, channel 5 would be the first to exhibit problems due to its high frequency. So maybe that 300 ohm wire corroded just enough on the antenna or where it hooks to the pre amp box to reduce the signal. I did not seal those connections... :(
I am thinking to replace the pre amp with a Channel Master CM7775