WAY TO GO KING5. When will they ever learn *sigh*.

I know I bring this up a lot, but they still haven't figured out the field of vision of the 16:9 cameras in their newsroom. What's it been? At least three years that they've been using those cameras?

The point is, that's pretty simple, and in three years they haven't figured it out. Something technical will take forever.

Ya, they've got a lot of issues some of them being ...

1. Multi-Casting with a 24 hour weather channel taking bandwidth from their HD programming ... when they actually show HD

2. Pre-empting Stanley Cup finals last year with local news, Jeopardy, and Wheel of Fortune, choosing to air it on KONG in SD

3. Horrible HD News production, constantly switching between HD and SD and not framing shot right when in HD

4. Switching Conan O'Brien to SD 3 - 4 times a week for the last segment

5. Now, airing live content from NBC in SD when there is a perfectly good HD feed.

None of these issues are NBC related, they could all be correctly locally by the KING 5 offices, if I'm not mistaken.

2. Pre-empting Stanley Cup finals last year with local news, Jeopardy, and Wheel of Fortune, choosing to air it on KONG in SD.

When was the monorail fire? Two-three years ago? I think the SC finals were on Komo then, but whoever it was, during the next game they advertised that they covered the story longer than any of the other stations!

I'm sure the audience for the next game really appreciated the fact that they missed a lot of the prior game to watch the smoke dissipate! :rolleyes:

I know I bring this up a lot, but they still haven't figured out the field of vision of the 16:9 cameras in their newsroom. What's it been? At least three years that they've been using those cameras?

The point is, that's pretty simple, and in three years they haven't figured it out. Something technical will take forever.

KaryK
I think it has to do with the graphics generator. Whenever there's anything on screen, they crop the picture. It's still in HD, and as soon as the graphics disappear, it goes back to full screen, un cropped. The rest of the picture never gets squeezed or changes aspect, just cut off at the sides. When they first came on in 97, they didn't do it. When they started it about a year later, with permanent cropped HD at news time, their engineer told me it was because so many people had purchased HD sets that were 4:3 and watching 16:9 left bars top and bottom and were complaining. Then, when they started doing the flip back and forth thing, about a year later, I called again and they said it was the graphics generator, and would be fixed by the end of the year. Obviously they're years are longer than ours. Whatever the excuse, it's way past time to fix it. I hope they read this. Ch7 does ths same silly cropped HD, too. So, when I set up a new HD set, and the customers get to see the difference between the news casts, it's ch4 that gets programmed as the system start up channel on the custom remotes. Or they simply marvel at the better picture on ch4, compared to the others. It's really not any better, but THEY WANT THE FULL SCREEN !!
$ince it'$ rating$ that bring$ in the dollar$, I hope the other two wake up and even the playing field. I KNOW they can transmit 16:9 content for all the other stuff, so why shortchange the viewers and force them to another station over something so simple.

Okay, rant over.
Dan

This is second (or third) hand information, but I heard that KIRO has a lot of new HD equipment on order for the studio.

That's the same thing I get...wonder if there will be a firmware upgrade for the Samsung STB or something to fix this.

bigpoppa206
Spoke with Samsung tech support. They said that those channels (112-42 to 426)that drop off are encrypted. When I told him they appeared on TV's with QAM tuners okay, they didn't know what to say, but would look into it. As for the problem of trying to enter a channel number with 3 digits, a dash, and 4 digits (like 105-1049) and not coming up, it's designed to cutoff at 7 characters. They didn't think the cable companies had any numbers higher than that. He said they would look into that as well. It could be fixed with a firmware, which would be done via the USB port on the back. If any changes are coming for a download, they will appear on the website. He said new models come out in June, so they may incorporate them then. Also asked if they could modify the software so the method for deleting unwanted channels is easier, like on their sat receivers 300 and 360. He agreed, it's pretty slow. I played with it for about 10 minutes, got 50 channels deleted, but still had another 200 to go, at least. I left mine at that. Do it when I have time, ..... which is pretty unlikely!
Dan

I've been reading this and other threads for a while and the info is great, thanks for sharing your knowledge everyone.

I live in Enumclaw. I have a Dish 622 but as you know I'm not getting FOX. The NASCAR season is approaching so I'm going to have to break down and purchase an OTA for FOX only. I get the other locals via Dish.

I'm thinking of the Squareshooter SS-1000. Any other recommendations? BTW according to the antennaweb site I am 44.5 miles from the KCPQ tower.

Thanks

bigpoppa206
Spoke with Samsung tech support. They said that those channels (112-42 to 426)that drop off are encrypted. When I told him they appeared on TV's with QAM tuners okay, they didn't know what to say, but would look into it. As for the problem of trying to enter a channel number with 3 digits, a dash, and 4 digits (like 105-1049) and not coming up, it's designed to cutoff at 7 characters. They didn't think the cable companies had any numbers higher than that. He said they would look into that as well. It could be fixed with a firmware, which would be done via the USB port on the back. If any changes are coming for a download, they will appear on the website. He said new models come out in June, so they may incorporate them then. Also asked if they could modify the software so the method for deleting unwanted channels is easier, like on their sat receivers 300 and 360. He agreed, it's pretty slow. I played with it for about 10 minutes, got 50 channels deleted, but still had another 200 to go, at least. I left mine at that. Do it when I have time, ..... which is pretty unlikely!
Dan
Would be great if you could flag channels for deletion, even multiple channels at once, sort of like how you flag favorites and then do a big delete all. Agreed, very time consuming.

Now my only issue with my setup seems to come from how many channels they are squeezing together and random spots of Macroblocking but that's out of my hands. On the other hand, the DVD "Cars" looks fantastic!!!

hdnewbie,

If you care to post your nearest intersection I can plot your line-of-site to the QA towers in my topo program and see what might be in the way. I have done this for a number of people so they would know if they needed a 100' mast to clear some hill in the way. I have the 4228 antenna in north Seattle and I get very good signals on everything except the Bates channels in Tacoma. The digital signals are much weaker than a normal analog channel. Sometimes only 10% strength.

Larry

Dear Larry -

I too am wrestling with gaining HD network access. My coordinates:

Kitsap Street and Fort Ward Road, Bainbridge Island 98110
Kitsap is a rather long and bending pvt road so more specifically, my location is
about 550M East South East of that intersection.

AntennaWeb seemed to think that getting enough signal was do-able, but I know of no one in this neighborhood with OTA tv. Thanks for any help you can offer.

Bill

I've been reading this and other threads for a while and the info is great, thanks for sharing your knowledge everyone.

I live in Enumclaw. I have a Dish 622 but as you know I'm not getting FOX. The NASCAR season is approaching so I'm going to have to break down and purchase an OTA for FOX only. I get the other locals via Dish.

I'm thinking of the Squareshooter SS-1000. Any other recommendations? BTW according to the antennaweb site I am 44.5 miles from the KCPQ tower.

Thanks

The SS-1000 might work but is rather overpriced and not really designed for that range. If you have no trees in the way you might try a CM-4221 or Radios Shack 15-2160. Otherwise, a CM-4248 would be a good bet for getting through trees. Post your nearest cross streets so we can check the topography first.

Dear Larry -

I too am wrestling with gaining HD network access. My coordinates:

Kitsap Street and Fort Ward Road, Bainbridge Island 98110
Kitsap is a rather long and bending pvt road so more specifically, my location is
about 550M East South East of that intersection.

AntennaWeb seemed to think that getting enough signal was do-able, but I know of no one in this neighborhood with OTA tv. Thanks for any help you can offer.

Bill

If I understand your directions then you should have no hills in the way. But you are on the "dark side of the moon" so to speak. All the Seattle antennas send most of their power to the east, north and south. Folks to the west of Seattle get much less signal. This will change when the big "switch" occurs and the digital hardware is moved to the top of their towers. If you are just in the experimental stage right now then go get a cheap UHF antenna like the Radio Shack 15-2160 and see what you can get. Also note that CH 13 is almost 180 degrees off that path and would require a second antenna or rotator.

Bill, I am about two miles north of you (Eagledale) and get good OTA reception on channels 5, 7, 9, 11 and 22. Channel 4 is marginal, but the path is through trees (as it is for 5 and 7, but 4 is affected more). I get nothing on channel 13 (hills in the way, but fortunately they are now carried by Directv). You may have better luck with 4 and 13, depending on trees.
Bob

You mention getting decent reception. Is that in reference to HDTV signals or SDTV?

Thanks,

Bill

You mention getting decent reception. Is that in reference to HDTV signals or SDTV?

Thanks,

Bill

Both HD and SD from the digital transmitters. I have Directv and use that where I can (but 4, 9, 11 and 22 are not yet carried in HD on Directv). I tried several antenna locations on my roof before finding one which works (not that great) for ch. 4. Actually 5 and 7 were better at my original antenna location, but are still pretty good. There are more trees in the direction of Queen Anne than Capital Hill from here. I'm at an elevation of about 50 ft. If I were higher up the hill, I'd probably have a better chance with ch. 13.

Bob

Does anybody else see the following channels?

42-1 KWBF-DT
42-2 KYPX
42-3 Tube
42-4 Lick TV

42 digital is supposed to be local KWDK (a Daystar affiliate) and that comes in very, very poorly on

42-1 KWBF-DT

42-2, 42-3 and 42-4 don't come in at all.

It's the call signs that are confusing me.

KWBF is a My Network TV affiliate in Little Rock Arkansas that gets remapped to 42-1.
KYPX was a former call sign of KWBF
Tube is gotta be "The Tube"
I have no idea what "Lick TV".

Anybody know why KWDK may be using callsigns from Arkansas?

That's very strange. TheTube is carried locally on ch. 22-2.

Yes I've seen these call signs for a long time (at least for 3 months), but I never saw any signals besides for 42-1 (which I disabled...)

Does anybody else see the following channels?

42-1 KWBF-DT
42-2 KYPX
42-3 Tube
42-4 Lick TV

42 digital is supposed to be local KWDK (a Daystar affiliate) and that comes in very, very poorly on

42-1 KWBF-DT

42-2, 42-3 and 42-4 don't come in at all.

It's the call signs that are confusing me.

KWBF is a My Network TV affiliate in Little Rock Arkansas that gets remapped to 42-1.
KYPX was a former call sign of KWBF
Tube is gotta be "The Tube"
I have no idea what "Lick TV".

Anybody know why KWDK may be using callsigns from Arkansas?
Maybe someone bought and installed a used piece of equipment and has not gone in and cleaned up old data that drives to PSIP?

A little off subject
can anyone recommend an Independent installer to do a directv dish upgrade install?
Lots of trees here.

A little off subject
can anyone recommend an Independent installer to do a directv dish upgrade install?
Lots of trees here.

Bruceko
I assume you mean to the 5LNB dish for getting local Seattle channels.
The only outfit that I've been able to find that makes the dishes are only selling them to direct installers. You need to go through direct. They do offer discounts and special offers for the upgrade. I've had a number of customers only get charged $50-70, which is reasonable.
Dan

If you get a Directv H20 or HR20 receiver (needed for HD locals), they will install the 5 LNB dish for free. I was a bit hesitant, having done my initial installation myself, but figured I'd get it and later make any necessary changes. The installer (from Ironwood) did a decent job, but I did have to pick up the boxes and bits of cable he left laying in the yard. The dishes are available online http://www.solidsignal.com, if one really wants to pay (the alignment is a bit tricky and a meter is recommended).

thanks for the info but Ironwood was a total waste for me.
Directv offered the 5lnb dish upgrade for free.
We have a lot of trees and for the instal direc requested a senior tech to come out.
The first appointment the tech showed up at 7pm. couldn't see a thing.
Second appointment they sent the same tech that didn't even know there was a 110 sat.
Supposedly on two occasions the head of the local Ironwood office was supposed to meet with me but never called or showed up
the third appointment a senior tech did show up but he had just been sent up from Vegas so didn't have any ideas about what trees needed to be cut down to get sightline with the new integrated slimline 5lnb dish.
I think the only way to get the new dish to work would to use 2 of the at9 dishes.
I would do it myself but setting that dish up requires a fairly expensive sat meter.

Check this thread on dbstalk: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=62223. This was done by Ironwood (Lynwood office, IIRC). It won't work with the Slimline, however and AT-9s are probably getting scarce. There are some messages late in the thread about using a Slimline for 101/119 with a separate dish for 110, using a Sat-C kit (may not work with 103).

Thanks
The irony is that it was the Lynnwood Ironwood office that was dispatching.
I had read the thread you mentioned and had hoped they would be of some help.
But they must be to busy to talk to their customers.

I installed my Squareshooter SS-1000 today. My primary purpose is to get FOX KCPQ 13 via OTA because Dish Network doesn't carry the HD channel. While installing it I picked up several stations and it seems to be working just fine. I have a problem though trying to pick up channel FOX 13. When I was installing it I was receiving a strong signal and picture on 13 but only when I had my ratchet touching the elevation adjustment bolt. As soon as I took my ratchet off I lost the signal.

Any ideas how I can fix this... I don't really feel like leaving my ratchet attached to the antenna all the time. :)

Thanks

Yes as a matter of fact, the negotiations between DirectTV and KOMO's parent company Fisher, finally have been recently completed.

I'm not sure when DirectTV will be geared up to start sending out KOMO-DT HD programming, but I have to imagine it will be soon. The ball is in DirectTV's court now.

Over The Air is still the superior picture if you can get it.

Happy Holidays,

Kelly From KOMO.

Kelly,

Have you heard any further word? We're still hoping DirecTV starts sending out KOMO-DT HD programming before LOST resumes.

Cheers,
Chuck

Honestly I'm not sure why DirecTV is waiting to carry KOMO in HD. From what I was told by someone directly involved, they were given the "green light" by KOMO's parent company Fisher to go ahead and carry KOMO's DTV signal.

Honestly I'm not sure why DirecTV is waiting to carry KOMO in HD. From what I was told by someone directly involved, they were given the "green light" by KOMO's parent company Fisher to go ahead and carry KOMO's DTV signal.

Thanks for the timely reply. Without naming names, I'll press DirecTV for an answer.

Thanks for the timely reply. Without naming names, I'll press DirecTV for an answer.

Possibly they don't have KOMO linked to their upload center yet. As far as I can tell, Directv hasn't added any HD locals since November 29, 2006, including several DMAs which they had said would be activated by the end of the year. I emailed them this morning asking about KOMO, but haven't heard back yet. If I do, I'll post the answer here. I know they activated KCPQ as soon as the final agreement with Tribune was reached.

Edit 1/23/2007:

Directv responded today, but it was a non-answer, probably from a prepared CSR script:

Thanks for asking about HD programming. I know that HD programming is important to you and DIRECTV is committed to offering the best possible HD experience to you. In recent months, we have launched the first two of four satellites that will allow us to greatly expand our HD local channel offerings.

The two new satellites have allowed us to begin offering HD local channels in several cities, with many more to come later this year. Because our satellite capacity is still limited, we intend to focus on getting HD feeds of ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC up in as many cities as possible. Next year, when the other two satellites become available, we will be able to begin providing even more channels (including CW, where available) in existing HD local markets, as well as adding new HD markets and more national HD programming.

Though currently we are not able to offer ABC in HD in your area of Seattle-Tacoma WA, we continue to evaluate our available capacity and discuss the addition of HD channels with our program providers.

However, we currently have special permission from ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX to provide their New York or Los Angeles digital (HD) feeds in select areas of the country. Please check channels 80-89 to see if you are already receiving one or more of these HD feeds.

They went on to tell how to apply for waivers. Not the information I was looking for....

I installed my Squareshooter SS-1000 today. My primary purpose is to get FOX KCPQ 13 via OTA because Dish Network doesn't carry the HD channel. While installing it I picked up several stations and it seems to be working just fine. I have a problem though trying to pick up channel FOX 13. When I was installing it I was receiving a strong signal and picture on 13 but only when I had my ratchet touching the elevation adjustment bolt. As soon as I took my ratchet off I lost the signal.

Any ideas how I can fix this... I don't really feel like leaving my ratchet attached to the antenna all the time. :)

Thanks

jdnelson
The ss1000 isn't that swift of an antenna. It's obviously reacting to signal reflected by your ratchet. Leave the bolts just loose enough to aim it. Move it a little, move a foot or two away, check results, do it again as needed. You should be able to find a spot where it will work. Tighten it all down when you get it, sit back and enjoy.
Dan

If you get a Directv H20 or HR20 receiver (needed for HD locals), they will install the 5 LNB dish for free. I was a bit hesitant, having done my initial installation myself, but figured I'd get it and later make any necessary changes. The installer (from Ironwood) did a decent job, but I did have to pick up the boxes and bits of cable he left laying in the yard. The dishes are available online http://www.solidsignal.com, if one really wants to pay (the alignment is a bit tricky and a meter is recommended).

rdn
Interesting. Figured some one would sell the new dishes sooner or later. With their offers of free installs, I have not really pursued any more upgrades. The dish is tricky. I watched them install one at a TV dealers store. It should be possible to use multiple dishes to work around tree problems. The KA band will most likely need a slightly bigger dish. You could use a Slimline or AT9, and even an older triple LNB if you want to combine. There are ways to make them all work, just depends on what you need to combine. Without a meter, though, it would be a challenge. An installer should be able to do it, though.
Dan

Maybe someone bought and installed a used piece of equipment and has not gone in and cleaned up old data that drives to PSIP?
Their PSIP data is even more messed up than that. The first virtual channel has two different PMT tables getting broadcast on pid 48. One is correct but the other is wrong. I imagine lots of software will be unable to tune it correctly, if it uses the PMT instead of the TVCT to get the stream pids.

They're also using the wrong TSID value, KWDK is assigned 0x0c53 but has put 0x0001 in their PSIP.

Possibly they don't have KOMO linked to their upload center yet. As far as I can tell, Directv hasn't added any HD locals since November 29, 2006, including several DMAs which they had said would be activated by the end of the year. I emailed them this morning asking about KOMO, but haven't heard back yet. If I do, I'll post the answer here. I know they activated KCPQ as soon as the final agreement with Tribune was reached.

Edit 1/23/2007:

Directv responded today, but it was a non-answer, probably from a prepared CSR script:

Thanks for asking about HD programming. I know that HD programming is important to you and DIRECTV is committed to offering the best possible HD experience to you. In recent months, we have launched the first two of four satellites that will allow us to greatly expand our HD local channel offerings.

The two new satellites have allowed us to begin offering HD local channels in several cities, with many more to come later this year. Because our satellite capacity is still limited, we intend to focus on getting HD feeds of ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC up in as many cities as possible. Next year, when the other two satellites become available, we will be able to begin providing even more channels (including CW, where available) in existing HD local markets, as well as adding new HD markets and more national HD programming.

Though currently we are not able to offer ABC in HD in your area of Seattle-Tacoma WA, we continue to evaluate our available capacity and discuss the addition of HD channels with our program providers.

However, we currently have special permission from ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX to provide their New York or Los Angeles digital (HD) feeds in select areas of the country. Please check channels 80-89 to see if you are already receiving one or more of these HD feeds.

They went on to tell how to apply for waivers. Not the information I was looking for....


I've had a running correspondence with DirecTV concerning KOMO HD. Their most recent explanation (12/20/06) for not airing KOMO HD was because their offer had not yet been accepted, stating that "We're in discussions with the station's owners and hope to add the channel in the near future." In the email I sent yesterday I told them that I have a source that indicated KOMO’s parent company Fisher gave DirecTV the go ahead to transmit KOMO ABC HD about a month ago and that if this is true, when do they expect KOMO HD to be included with the current HD locals in the Seattle-Tacoma area? I've not received a reply as yet.

rdn
Interesting. Figured some one would sell the new dishes sooner or later. With their offers of free installs, I have not really pursued any more upgrades. The dish is tricky. I watched them install one at a TV dealers store. It should be possible to use multiple dishes to work around tree problems. The KA band will most likely need a slightly bigger dish. You could use a Slimline or AT9, and even an older triple LNB if you want to combine. There are ways to make them all work, just depends on what you need to combine. Without a meter, though, it would be a challenge. An installer should be able to do it, though.
Dan

Combining is a bit trickier than before the Ka band stuff was added, since the Ka outputs are piggy-backed (at different frequencies) onto the 101 and 119/110 outputs inside the LNB assembly. Apparently the voltage fed to the 110 and 119 LNBs is much lower than 13/18 volts, so there is probably some voltage regulation inside that assembly also. With the Slimline, it is all one feed assembly, so splitting them is much more difficult.

I suspect there is a market for a solution which would allow 99/101/103 and separate 110 and 119 dishes, which would necessitate an external combiner. There has been speculation that all HD would be moved to 99/103 in the future, which would simplify things.

Bob

With the Sllmline model they went away from the "dither" adjustment with an improved mechanism.

I've had a running correspondence with DirecTV concerning KOMO HD. Their most recent explanation (12/20/06) for not airing KOMO HD was because their offer had not yet been accepted, stating that "We're in discussions with the station's owners and hope to add the channel in the near future." In the email I sent yesterday I told them that I have a source that indicated KOMO’s parent company Fisher gave DirecTV the go ahead to transmit KOMO ABC HD about a month ago and that if this is true, when do they expect KOMO HD to be included with the current HD locals in the Seattle-Tacoma area? I've not received a reply as yet.

I replied to their email asking essentially the same questions you did.

Bob

Combining is a bit trickier than before the Ka band stuff was added, since the Ka outputs are piggy-backed (at different frequencies) onto the 101 and 119/110 outputs inside the LNB assembly. Apparently the voltage fed to the 110 and 119 LNBs is much lower than 13/18 volts, so there is probably some voltage regulation inside that assembly also. With the Slimline, it is all one feed assembly, so splitting them is much more difficult.

I suspect there is a market for a solution which would allow 99/101/103 and separate 110 and 119 dishes, which would necessitate an external combiner. There has been speculation that all HD would be moved to 99/103 in the future, which would simplify things.

Bob

With the Sllmline model they went away from the "dither" adjustment with an improved mechanism.


rdn
Figures. That's not what the tech told me. Wouldn't be surprised they came up with some fubar method of separating sat's. I'll wait until I can put my meter on one and see what's really going on. From what I was told they simply kept the Ka band downconverted to the Upper UHF band. That would make combining a snap. Voltage wouldn't matter. I agree, some smart person will figure out a better mousetrap to do it. Until then, I'll let them thrash around with their setup as long as they leave my HD sat freq's alone!
Dan

I replied to their email asking essentially the same questions you did.

Bob

Bob,

DirecTV responded to my email around 9:00 pm last night:

"Thank you for writing us back. I understand your concern about getting ABC in HD. As of this time, we still don't have any information as to when we're going to carry ABC in HD. We're in discussions with the station's owners and hope to add the channel in the near future. We're always looking for ways to enhance our services, and customer feedback is very important to us. I have forwarded your query on to DIRECTV Management.

We often make changes to our service based on customer requests, and we conduct customer surveys on a regular basis to get feedback and new ideas.

Thanks again for writing and we appreciate your patience and understanding on this issue. . . ."

Hmmmm.
Chuck

Hi Dan,
I 'm planning on putting the 4228 up Sat. and before I did so, my wife asked if I could paint it.
Since I don't have any experience and did a search on the site and found no one talking about
painting an antenna, thought I'd run it by you, as I'm sure you have a sound answer to the question.
Regards,
Lew

rdn
Figures. That's not what the tech told me. Wouldn't be surprised they came up with some fubar method of separating sat's. I'll wait until I can put my meter on one and see what's really going on. From what I was told they simply kept the Ka band downconverted to the Upper UHF band. That would make combining a snap. Voltage wouldn't matter. I agree, some smart person will figure out a better mousetrap to do it. Until then, I'll let them thrash around with their setup as long as they leave my HD sat freq's alone!
Dan

The current Ka-band is downconverted to 1650-2150 MHz, but there are two slots at 99 and 103 degrees. 99 is selected by 13/18v like 101 and 103 also uses the 22 kHz signal, as do 110 and 119. When Directv 10 and 11 are operational (late this year) they will also be at 99 and 103, but will be downconverted to 250-750 MHz (there are two different Ka-band allocations but a single local oscillator frequency). Directv supplies a converter module which is attached to the HD receivers to convert 250-750 up to 1650-2150 at the receiver input (triggered by some signal from the receiver which I haven't figured out yet).

This is a bit OT for this forum--lots of info on dbstalk.

Bob

Bob,

DirecTV responded to my email around 9:00 pm last night:

"Thank you for writing us back. I understand your concern about getting ABC in HD. As of this time, we still don't have any information as to when we're going to carry ABC in HD. We're in discussions with the station's owners and hope to add the channel in the near future. We're always looking for ways to enhance our services, and customer feedback is very important to us. I have forwarded your query on to DIRECTV Management.

We often make changes to our service based on customer requests, and we conduct customer surveys on a regular basis to get feedback and new ideas.

Thanks again for writing and we appreciate your patience and understanding on this issue. . . ."

Hmmmm.
Chuck

Chuck,

I just got a reply to my latest email and it's obvious that we're not getting through to anyone who has the slightest bit of knowledge of the situation.

Bob

Hi Dan,
I 'm planning on putting the 4228 up Sat. and before I did so, my wife asked if I could paint it.
Since I don't have any experience and did a search on the site and found no one talking about
painting an antenna, thought I'd run it by you, as I'm sure you have a sound answer to the question.
Regards,
Lew

Lew
You can paint everything except the bow ties, and the connecting rods between them. It doesn't seem like it's a big deal, but it is.
Dan

The current Ka-band is downconverted to 1650-2150 MHz, but there are two slots at 99 and 103 degrees. 99 is selected by 13/18v like 101 and 103 also uses the 22 kHz signal, as do 110 and 119. When Directv 10 and 11 are operational (late this year) they will also be at 99 and 103, but will be downconverted to 250-750 MHz (there are two different Ka-band allocations but a single local oscillator frequency). Directv supplies a converter module which is attached to the HD receivers to convert 250-750 up to 1650-2150 at the receiver input (triggered by some signal from the receiver which I haven't figured out yet).

This is a bit OT for this forum--lots of info on dbstalk.

Bob

Bob
Thanks, I'll check it out.
Dan

Chuck,

I just got a reply to my latest email and it's obvious that we're not getting through to anyone who has the slightest bit of knowledge of the situation.

Bob

Yup.

Has anyone noticed any audio sync issues on KOMO-DT lately? The last few nights when I've had the 11:00pm news on I've noticed that the audio sync is off. Trying to figure out if it's the equipment I'm using or the actual feed.

Hi Dan,
Installed the CM 4228, a Yagi for thirteen with the CM 7775 preamp and CM jointenna.
Quite the surprising ordeal, gggg. First off, I had no idea that most of the local digital broadcasts had multiple channels simultaneously . Wow, that was a shock, gggg. Basically my issues very quickly revolved around channel drop out. I found that by simply moving the
4228 a fraction of a little bit, I'd either gain Kiro and lose ktbc or king or vise versa. So, at the moment, and I've only had the antenna up a couple of hours, my experience is that I don't have king at all, kiro sometimes , and kbtc sometimes. I really see some issues when the wind is blowing and the antenna is moving slightly.
So, the question is how to overcome the channel drop out issues and get a more rock steady reception situation. I would first off wonder if a multidirectional antenna would be
superior to the the 4228? Of course, I also wonder if I'm just screwed and will only be able to deal with a very diminished channel offering availability. Any thoughts would be appreciated. By the way, Channel 28 comes in the strongest at 76/100, the rest are around 30 to 34 out of 100.

Regards,
Lew

Speaking of KBTC. Does anybody know, whether there's some information available regarding the programming that they carry on their substations? 28.1 is the regular (same as analog) KBTC, 28.2 is pretty much the same as KCTS 9.3. But for 28.3 I have no idea and 28.4. carries some international programming (sometimes it's DW-TV in Spanish).
I haven't found any programming guide for the last 2 substations (they are not listed on zap2it). Does anybody have some information about these stations?

Hi Dan,
Installed the CM 4228, a Yagi for thirteen with the CM 7775 preamp and CM jointenna.
Quite the surprising ordeal, gggg. First off, I had no idea that most of the local digital broadcasts had multiple channels simultaneously . Wow, that was a shock, gggg. Basically my issues very quickly revolved around channel drop out. I found that by simply moving the
4228 a fraction of a little bit, I'd either gain Kiro and lose ktbc or king or vise versa. So, at the moment, and I've only had the antenna up a couple of hours, my experience is that I don't have king at all, kiro sometimes , and kbtc sometimes. I really see some issues when the wind is blowing and the antenna is moving slightly.
So, the question is how to overcome the channel drop out issues and get a more rock steady reception situation. I would first off wonder if a multidirectional antenna would be
superior to the the 4228? Of course, I also wonder if I'm just screwed and will only be able to deal with a very diminished channel offering availability. Any thoughts would be appreciated. By the way, Channel 28 comes in the strongest at 76/100, the rest are around 30 to 34 out of 100.

Regards,
Lew

Lew
Sounds like we need to get a meter on it and find out wassup. Have you tried a different location? A few feet in any direction can make huge changes in reception.
Multi directional is NOT what you need. More height, different spot or less trees is. Also, when you ran the cable from the antenna, make sure that the two wires from the balun to the antenna are separated and not near the "chicken wire" back plane, and not twisted. That can give you problems when dealing with weak signal. Exactly what ch's did you get and what were the readings? I forgot, what are you using to tune the channels?
Dan
Dan

Hi Dan, My issues are channels 5, 7 and 9. Everything else behaves wonderfully. At the moment, i.e, where the 4228 is currently oriented the following stations were picked up and programed by the 940:
4.1, 7.1, 7.2, 9.1, 9.3, 9.5, 11.1, 11.3, 13.1, 15., 16, 16.01, 16.2, 20, 20.1, 20.2, 20.3, 20.4, 20.5, 22.1, 22.2, 28.3, 28.4, 33., 33.1, 33.2, 33.3, 33.4, 45.1, 45.2, 45.3, 45.4.,and 51.

Basically the 9, 7 and 5 channels are the tweaky ones. Nine can drop out easily, 7 comes in periodically and 5 doesn't come in at all with this antenna orientation. Here's a link to a
photo of the installation: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/179/372252195_cf7b6d79b6.jpg
Oh, I'm using RG6 coax.
Regards,
Lew

Darn it, forgot to add the signal strength readings as taken off the channel set up guide
on the 940:

4.1 (34), 7.1(dropped at the moment), 7.2, 9.1(26), 9.3, 9.5, 11.1(46), 11.3, 13.1(69), 15., 16, 16.01(34), 16.2, 20, 20.1(50), 20.2, 20.3, 20.4, 20.5, 22.1(38), 22.2, 28.3(76), 28.4, 33., 33.1(42), 33.2, 33.3, 33.4, 45.1(42), 45.2, 45.3, 45.4.,and 51.

Hope this is more clear than mud, ggg.
Regards,
Lew

Bob,

DirecTV responded to my email around 9:00 pm last night:

"Thank you for writing us back. I understand your concern about getting ABC in HD. As of this time, we still don't have any information as to when we're going to carry ABC in HD. We're in discussions with the station's owners and hope to add the channel in the near future. We're always looking for ways to enhance our services, and customer feedback is very important to us. I have forwarded your query on to DIRECTV Management.

We often make changes to our service based on customer requests, and we conduct customer surveys on a regular basis to get feedback and new ideas.

Thanks again for writing and we appreciate your patience and understanding on this issue. . . ."


Hmmmm.
Chuck

I have also emailed my contacts at DirecTV to see if we can some official word on the delay in providing KOMO-DT. My guess is that it takes some time to set up the required MPEG4 encoder and uplink, although KCPQ/Fox came online pretty quick after their agreement was reached.

Darn it, forgot to add the signal strength readings as taken off the channel set up guide
on the 940:

4.1 (34), 7.1(dropped at the moment), 7.2, 9.1(26), 9.3, 9.5, 11.1(46), 11.3, 13.1(69), 15., 16, 16.01(34), 16.2, 20, 20.1(50), 20.2, 20.3, 20.4, 20.5, 22.1(38), 22.2, 28.3(76), 28.4, 33., 33.1(42), 33.2, 33.3, 33.4, 45.1(42), 45.2, 45.3, 45.4.,and 51.

Hope this is more clear than mud, ggg.
Regards,
Lew

Lew
Looks like you may need a preamp. You're getting stations that are normally tougher than the ones you can't, 7-5-9. I would try a 7775 next. Might just be enough to get you over the hump. The 940 has a fairly sensitive tuner. Even if it doesn't make a big difference, you still will need it to get you out of the mud, enough to compensate for the foilage coming later. Did you paint it? Looks the same.
Dan

Hi Dan,
I already have the 7775 installed. Last night, with no wind, 4.1 was unwatchable, as it would be dropped every other minute. I'm thinking about moving the antenna away from the house
and wonder how long a run of coax can be handled before there is a net loss from R. I could
go up a tree on put it on the roof of the shop. The shop would add another 30 feet or so and the tree another 75 feet. So, just guess, I would think the run from the tree would be a max of 200' and the shop 150'.
Regards,
Lew

I have also emailed my contacts at DirecTV to see if we can some official word on the delay in providing KOMO-DT. My guess is that it takes some time to set up the required MPEG4 encoder and uplink, although KCPQ/Fox came online pretty quick after their agreement was reached.

It's interesting that Dish Network has KOMO, KIRO, and KING HD but not KCPQ. Are they using MPEG2 encoding? Otherwise one would think that KOMO already has an MPEG4 encoder and uplink equipment in place.

It's interesting that Dish Network has KOMO, KIRO, and KING HD but not KCPQ. Are they using MPEG2 encoding? Otherwise one would think that KOMO already has an MPEG4 encoder and uplink equipment in place.

The last I heard was that Dish Network still doesn't have an agreement with Tribune, so no KCPQ. I think the necessary setup was put in place between the time Directv had a preliminary agreement and when it was finalized, all they needed to do was to flip a switch. I don't know why Dish was able to get an early agreement with KOMO, but Directv was not.

According to http://www.dbstalk.com/hr20/html/DIRECTV_lil_list.html, no new HD locals have been added since the end of November. In the dbstalk.com threads, there are conflicting reports that some additional locals will be added in February or not until the new satellites are in place. As far as I can tell, there is still bandwidth available, so hopefully KOMO won't be delayed until then.

Bob

Thanks DanKurts for helping me - I have the tuner and antenna and now I get about 29 stations OTA and most of them have great reception.

Does anyone know if the Superbowl will be in HD OTA this year and if so which station?

Thanks DanKurts for helping me - I have the tuner and antenna and now I get about 29 stations OTA and most of them have great reception.

Does anyone know if the Superbowl will be in HD OTA this year and if so which station?

Superbowl is on CBS this year, and yes, it's being broadcast in 1080i HiDef by KIRO-DT, Ch. 7.

Thanks DanKurts for helping me - I have the tuner and antenna and now I get about 29 stations OTA and most of them have great reception.

Does anyone know if the Superbowl will be in HD OTA this year and if so which station?

DirkPitt
Welcome and well done. Where did you end up getting the tuner?
Dan

Hi Dan, I too would like to chime in and say thank you for all the help on addressing OTA HDTV and your recommendation on the Pioneer Elite Plasmas. I've ordered a rotator, and no matter what else, I believe it will go a long way to addressing the issues I'm having with my location.
I've had a hellish time finding antenna mounting brackets that I felt were substantial enough.
I made of this Facia mounting system out of standard pipe available at the local home center.
I'm happy with it and drilled and tapped it at several points to place set screws to secure the mast.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/53019667@N00/377551786/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/137/377551786_31a2d2e2df.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="antenna mount" /></a>

If the picture doesn't paste, here the URL for the mout I built. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/137/377551786_31a2d2e2df.jpg
Regards,
Lew

I'm not sure if anything has changed at KOMO, but today the OTA HD channel looks much better, even though the signal level on my Directv HR20 is only 48%. I've been watching the 11 a.m. news for about 45 minutes without any breaking up.

I did a channel scan on my EyeTV 500 box (connected to my Mac) and for the first time ever KOMO was detected. The picture isn't too solid, but at least the channel is detected. There's no signal meter on this, but it isn't as sensitive as the Directv receiver.

Hi Dan, I too would like to chime in and say thank you for all the help on addressing OTA HDTV and your recommendation on the Pioneer Elite Plasmas. I've ordered a rotator, and no matter what else, I believe it will go a long way to addressing the issues I'm having with my location.
I've had a hellish time finding antenna mounting brackets that I felt were substantial enough.
I made of this Facia mounting system out of standard pipe available at the local home center.
I'm happy with it and drilled and tapped it at several points to place set screws to secure the mast.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/53019667@N00/377551786/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/137/377551786_31a2d2e2df.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="antenna mount" /></a>

If the picture doesn't paste, here the URL for the mout I built. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/137/377551786_31a2d2e2df.jpg
Regards,
Lew

Lew
Glad you got the it all working. You'll get a lot of great pictures from the Elite.
That's a great mount. A rotator is okay, but I still think it can be done without it.
Sorry I haven't had time to get over there. Might be able to do it next Sunday, if the weather cooperates. I'll let you know later in the week.
Dan

Anyone else have signal loss today? Sometime around the middle of the day I lost both my satellite & OTA feeds. Unless my multiswitch just exploded, I'm wondering if the rain and fog had something to do with it.

I've got an HR10-250 and an R10 (I'm with DirecTV), along with a Spaun 5x8 multiswitch and CM OTA antennas.

Anyone else have signal loss today? Sometime around the middle of the day I lost both my satellite & OTA feeds. Unless my multiswitch just exploded, I'm wondering if the rain and fog had something to do with it.

I've got an HR10-250 and an R10 (I'm with DirecTV), along with a Spaun 5x8 multiswitch and CM OTA antennas.

jcricket
A really really heavy rain might knock out your satellite, but not your OTA. Sounds like your switch, or more likely, your sat box. I've had a lot of them fail on my customers, far more than the older boxes from a year or so back, specially right out of the box. Is it in a closed cabinet with no air circulation? That will fry it in time.....
Dan

Nope, not the satellite box. Turns out my $$$ Spaun 5x8 multiswitch up and died. I replaced the switch with some barrel connectors and a diplexor, to test it, and both receivers I have work fine. For now this set up (I don't need to diplex OTA to more than one receiver, and I only have two 2-tuner receivers). No reason to go buying a soon-to-be obsolete multiswitch or spend money when I'm not even sure if I'll stay with DirecTV that long after my contract is up. The HR20 looks crappy.

And, btw, the Spaun is in an open room, with lots of good air circulation.

Superbowl is on CBS this year, and yes, it's being broadcast in 1080i HiDef by KIRO-DT, Ch. 7.

And it seems like they didn't turn off the sub channel, and it was bit-starved and it looked like unmitigated crap.

And it seems like they didn't turn off the sub channel, and it was bit-starved and it looked like unmitigated crap.

Really? I watched it OTA and it looked fine other than the normal 1080i motion artifacts once gets with sports. That doesn't have anything to do with whether their SeaTac camera was running on the "dot 2". CBS was struggling with keeping their camera lens' dry, but having worked in a production truck during bad weather, the production crew has my respect.

The only thing I noticed was an occasional audio glitch about every two minutes, but I see that on all the HD shows from CBS.

No, I'm not talking about the rain. It was macroblocking like crazy, everytime there was a lot of motion going on. The main logo that would fly in and out across the whole screen very fast turned the whole thing into a square-festival. I am viewing on a large screen, but it was poorer than it could have been, it was more like bit-starved HD-Sat/Cable than OTA. I came upstairs and checked out the game in SD analog cable and it looked fine, but in HD it was blocking pretty bad in any shots or commercials with a lot going on.

It didn't seem related to the game feed specifically, but rather the station.

No, I'm not talking about the rain. It was macroblocking like crazy, everytime there was a lot of motion going on. The main logo that would fly in and out across the whole screen very fast turned the whole thing into a square-festival. I am viewing on a large screen, but it was poorer than it could have been, it was more like bit-starved HD-Sat/Cable than OTA. I came upstairs and checked out the game in SD analog cable and it looked fine, but in HD it was blocking pretty bad in any shots or commercials with a lot going on.

It didn't seem related to the game feed specifically, but rather the station.

I didn't have those issues, but I'm not 100% sure if I was watching OTA or through cable--I think it was OTA.

I don't remember whether it was this thread or the Comcast thread where we discussed there can be reasons why individuals suffer macroblocking when others don't.

It was macroblocking like crazy, everytime there was a lot of motion going on. The main logo that would fly in and out across the whole screen very fast turned the whole thing into a square-festival. I am viewing on a large screen, but it was poorer than it could have been, it was more like bit-starved HD-Sat/Cable than OTA.

I had my first bigscreen, high-def, televised sports experience yesterday for the superbowl. Even I noticed the squares (macroblocking?) during the high speed action (which was most noticable when the broadcast included image/logo "flyovers") . I didn't know if this was a problem with the broadcast, the receiver, or the TV.

Did others notice this too? If so, it seems the networks need to recognize the limitations of the media and try to not overstep those boundaries.

Dale

I definitely saw macro blocking watching OTA.

Strange that we see these different results here. I watched it at a friends place (on comcast afaik), and it looked pretty good for a 1080i station.

I noticed a couple of scenes which macroblocked (OTA). But, for the most part, it was ok.

I wish that the TV crew had a better method of drying their lenses, but it looked like it was a torential (sp) rainstorm down there. I wonder if the rain caused the digital cameras to work overtime on trying to both calculate all of the motion, and stay in focus on the players.

I saw plenty of macroblocking on high-motion sequences. I wonder how much PQ improvement we would see on channel 7.1 if the useless SeaTac camera 7.2 channel was gone?

BTW, there was one camera that was causing tearing on my display, but I thought it was probably just my video card (nVidia 6600GTs are known to tear). This camera was one of the ones not way above the field, or on the field, but just above the field, looking across at the players with the opposite stands in the field of view. I wonder if it's somehow related to what others are describing as macroblocking?

I saw plenty of macroblocking on high-motion sequences. I wonder how much PQ improvement we would see on channel 7.1 if the useless SeaTac camera 7.2 channel was gone?

Same here. When are KIRO and KING going to figure this out. *sigh*

KIRO appears to run about twice the bit rate on its secondary channel than KING does. Perhaps that is because they run repeats of the news broadcasts at times. The Sea-Tac camera certainly doesn't need that much bandwidth.

Having a plasma with native resolution of 768x1020 plus a few cataracts results in me not really noticing some of the picture defects that some folks find objectionable. I suspect that age is becoming a factor for me, as well. :D

Bob

BTW, there was one camera that was causing tearing on my display, but I thought it was probably just my video card (nVidia 6600GTs are known to tear). This camera was one of the ones not way above the field, or on the field, but just above the field, looking across at the players with the opposite stands in the field of view. I wonder if it's somehow related to what others are describing as macroblocking?

No, I think I noticed that camera tear in the lower left corner once or twice, but that's not what I mean. This was just plain and simple macroblocking, and very clearly from the station being bit-starved, not from the feed per se. It did this on commercials as well. I should have taken some screen grabs, but I was just interesting in watching the game (for a while anyway, until it got boring :) ). It was much cleaner last year on Q13 if I recall correctly. KIRO was pretty silly for not turning off the subchannel, which is a pointless subchannel anyway.

I am viewing on a 8-ft screen though, via a CRT, so I see everything pretty clearly that a lot of people won't. I am also a picky viewer, but it certainly could have looked better and there was no reason to have it that bit-starved.

I watched via Comcast and yes there was lots of macroblocking and yes it has everything to do with their sub-channel sucking up bandwidth. This is not a "1080i artifact" or other nonsense. 1080i artifacts do not show up as squares the size of my thumb on a 47" screen. These are HUGE artifacts that are not related to the interlace problem. I have seen 1080i sports events (near east coast last Sept.) when there were no sub-channels and there were no huge macroblocks like we had on Sunday. The full HD bandwidth made all the difference.

This subject has been beat to death all over AVS and elsewhere on the net. The blame needs to be put where it correctly belongs and stations need to wise up.

Looking for information on Gemstar's TV Guide OTA broadcasting in the Seattle market. I recently acquired a Pioneer PRO-940 (THANKS AGAIN DAN FOR THE SUGGESTION). The set is equipped with the Gemstar TV Guide programing, but, alas I've not had it down load yet. It has downloaded the time, and assigned the proper network to channel for my location, but no program data. I'm wondering if anyone on this thread has received OTA TV Guide programing? If so, I need to figure out what I'm not doing right.
Regards,
Lew

It is working on my 1540.
It took about 24 hours to load.
You are hooked up to cable?

I'm in Kenmore and in the past could only receive KBTC-DT occasionally. For the last few weeks their xmit pwr seems to have increased. I now pretty much get good reception most of the time. I'm using the same receiver and antenna. LG/LST-3410A and a RadioShack 15-2160.

Has anyone heard if they upped their power or changed their xmit antenna?

Hi, no not hooked up to cable. So, just trying to get an over the air signal. Probably never will connect to cable, but you never know...
Lew

In a post last week I mentioned how KOMO's digital picture was much better. Now it is gone completely and I can't even acquire enough signal to get a strength reading. Oh well....

I wish Directv would hurry up and add it to the lineup.

Hi Lew.
I have a DVD recorder (an old Lite On 5007) which has the built in Gemstar TV guide. It displays programming info for all the local stations, including some from Canada. It goes about 8 days out.
It takes time for it to get all the programming data. First, it will display nothing, then once it has downloaded some info it will display the stations only, but not the listings. Once it's been plugged in and turned off for about 24 hours, then all the listings are there.
My machine usually updates at about 11:00pm every night. It will turn off and on by itself when it is updating. It only updates if the machine is turned off.

Here's a website that might help you: http://www.vgi.com/support/
Look for your TV model number and click on it.

Anyone care to speculate what will happen with this service after February 17, 2009? Will it still be broadcast as it is now?

Jay


Looking for information on Gemstar's TV Guide OTA broadcasting in the Seattle market. I recently acquired a Pioneer PRO-940 (THANKS AGAIN DAN FOR THE SUGGESTION). The set is equipped with the Gemstar TV Guide programing, but, alas I've not had it down load yet. It has downloaded the time, and assigned the proper network to channel for my location, but no program data. I'm wondering if anyone on this thread has received OTA TV Guide programing? If so, I need to figure out what I'm not doing right.
Regards,
Lew

Thanks Whidbey,
I had emailed both Gemstar and Ktbc. Ktbc was kind enough to respond:
"KBTC does offer PSIP over the air. The primary channel at this point is
the only one with current program information. The others will be up
and operational within 2 months. We are awaiting the update of some
software to get the other 3 channels operational.

Darin Gerchak
KBTC Engineering "

I'm assuming that this means that they are broadcasting TVGuide on VHF channel 9 and
will shortly be broadcasting it on their digital channels.

I am really fighting the OTA installation. Stinking trees and hills. To date I have the CM 4228, RS yagi with CH Jointenna, and the Channel Master 7775 preamp. I just installed
an antenna rotator. And can get most of the channels threading through the trees (although I've not had a chance to see how reception is affected by wet branches, I fear the worst).
I guess the next step is an amplifier. Didn't know this was going to turn into a new hobby, lol.
The forum is great, HDTV OTA is amazing, and I stubbornly refuse to pay for cable.

Lew

Thanks Whidbey,
I had emailed both Gemstar and Ktbc. Ktbc was kind enough to respond:
"KBTC does offer PSIP over the air. The primary channel at this point is
the only one with current program information. The others will be up
and operational within 2 months. We are awaiting the update of some
software to get the other 3 channels operational.

Darin Gerchak
KBTC Engineering "

I'm assuming that this means that they are broadcasting TVGuide on VHF channel 9 and
will shortly be broadcasting it on their digital channels.

I am really fighting the OTA installation. Stinking trees and hills. To date I have the CM 4228, RS yagi with CH Jointenna, and the Channel Master 7775 preamp. I just installed
an antenna rotator. And can get most of the channels threading through the trees (although I've not had a chance to see how reception is affected by wet branches, I fear the worst).
I guess the next step is an amplifier. Didn't know this was going to turn into a new hobby, lol.
The forum is great, HDTV OTA is amazing, and I stubbornly refuse to pay for cable.

Lew


KBTC is channel 27/28. I think that PSIP data is for the channel that is broadcasting it and doesn't have any information for other channels.

PSIP doesn't go out very far in time.

I am really fighting the OTA installation. Stinking trees and hills. To date I have the CM 4228, RS yagi with CH Jointenna, and the Channel Master 7775 preamp. I just installed
an antenna rotator. And can get most of the channels threading through the trees (although I've not had a chance to see how reception is affected by wet branches, I fear the worst).
I guess the next step is an amplifier. Didn't know this was going to turn into a new hobby, lol.
The forum is great, HDTV OTA is amazing, and I stubbornly refuse to pay for cable.

Lew

I cut the cord a couple years ago when I gave up DirecTV in favor of OTA. I started with a Radio Shack Antenna (80" Boom Length, 32-Element Model: VU-90 XR, Catalog #: 15-2152) which provided excellent results. I have since added a remote control Channel Master rotator, which helps bring in a few Canadian stations and Bellingham. My next step will be a mast mounted pre-amp. I do not yet have a digital tuner, I'm purely analog. I'm curious if I will be able to get CBC in digital though. I look forward to watching the 2010 Winter Olympics in HDTV!

Jay

PSIP doesn't go out very far in time.

PSIP should not be confused with EPG. See more here: http://www.psip.org/
PSIP supports the delivery of electronic program guide (EPG), which can go out as far as the provider wants it to.

Jay

I'm curious if I will be able to get CBC in digital though. I look forward to watching the 2010 Winter Olympics in HDTV!

CBC has their HD up and running from Mt. Seymour, but only at 30kW, so, unless you're in Whatcom County, it's probably going to be quite a challenge. CTV has their HD up and running, also from Mt. Seymour, but only at 900W: even more challenging. Global will be signing on in the fall, from the same site on Mt. Seymour as CTV, with 4.3kW.

Also, CBC/SRC only holds the Olympic broadcast rights through 2008. The 2010 and 2012 rights are held by CTV/TQS, with cable coverage on TSN/RDS.

CBC has their HD up and running from Mt. Seymour, but only at 30kW, so, unless you're in Whatcom County, it's probably going to be quite a challenge. CTV has their HD up and running, also from Mt. Seymour, but only at 900W: even more challenging. Global will be signing on in the fall, from the same site on Mt. Seymour as CTV, with 4.3kW.

Also, CBC/SRC only holds the Olympic broadcast rights through 2008. The 2010 and 2012 rights are held by CTV/TQS, with cable coverage on TSN/RDS.

Thanks for the info. The stations I can pick up from Canada are CHEK (Global from Victoria), CBUT (CBC from Vancouver) and CKVU (CityTV from Vancouver). Kinda disappointed I cannot pick up CTV, but maybe by the time the Olympics come to town they will up their wattage.

Jay

Anyone watching the syndicated Star Trek on KSTW? Been watching it for a couple of weeks. It looks great. The new CG effects are pretty good on a majority scenes.

Anyone watching the syndicated Star Trek on KSTW? Been watching it for a couple of weeks. It looks great. The new CG effects are pretty good on a majority scenes.

Is it actually in HD? I had heard that they weren't going to be showing it in HD a while back because they didn't have the equipment to show syndicated shows in HD, only live network TV.

I have no idea if it is, prob not, but the remasters look wonderful. Film print artifacts are gone, stability and very clean and film like image. All the old master with the awful chroma artifacts of the red shirts drove me crazy. Along with lots of video artifacts added to the film artifacts. The new effects are are much improved especially on the viewer screen. Huge impact over the older versions, where it was tough to actually see what the crew was looking at. Some of the full CGI shots look slightly odd, but still has that 60's style flavour laser blast of the phasers.

I'm not much of a trek fan btw.

Hi, I'm looking to upgrade my current OTA antenna setup up in the Issaquah Highlands. Currently I'm using a Silver Sensor $20 indoor antenna. I get spotty reception on 4.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.X, 11.1, 22.1, and some others. I actually have two of these antennas, and get similar results on my PC tuner on the 3rd floor and my TV or second PC tuner on the basement floor. It sometimes works fine, but it's not reliable enough for me to dump my Comcast HD / DVR service, which is the goal.

So, I'm looking to upgrade my antenna. I'm pretty confident that I can improve my signal on the main stations by getting anything better than the current SS, but I would really like to pick up 13.1 (Tacoma) as well.

I'm thinking about attic mounting a CM4228 or a DB8 -- if I point it towards Tacoma I think I might be able to pick up the main stations (closer) from Seattle, but I'm not really sure. Another option, of course, would be to get a couple of highly directional antennas and join-tenna them together (a 43XG, perhaps?). Any suggestions? Anybody else in the Highlands having success?

My antennaweb.org results don't show 13.1 for some reason (used to), or 5.1 which I actually pull in most of the time:

* yellow - uhf KOMO-DT 4.1 ABC SEATTLE WA 271° 17.3 38
* yellow - uhf KSTW-DT 11.1 CW TACOMA WA 270° 15.0 36
* yellow - uhf KWDK-DT 42.1 DAY TACOMA WA 137° 3.5 42
* yellow - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 ION BELLEVUE WA 137° 3.5 32
* yellow - uhf KIRO-DT 7.1 CBS SEATTLE WA 271° 17.5 39
* red - uhf KHCV-DT 44.1 SAH SEATTLE WA 137° 3.5 44

Thanks!

Hi, I'm looking to upgrade my current OTA antenna setup up in the Issaquah Highlands. Currently I'm using a Silver Sensor $20 indoor antenna. I get spotty reception on 4.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.X, 11.1, 22.1, and some others. I actually have two of these antennas, and get similar results on my PC tuner on the 3rd floor and my TV or second PC tuner on the basement floor. It sometimes works fine, but it's not reliable enough for me to dump my Comcast HD / DVR service, which is the goal.

So, I'm looking to upgrade my antenna. I'm pretty confident that I can improve my signal on the main stations by getting anything better than the current SS, but I would really like to pick up 13.1 (Tacoma) as well.

I'm thinking about attic mounting a CM4228 or a DB8 -- if I point it towards Tacoma I think I might be able to pick up the main stations (closer) from Seattle, but I'm not really sure. Another option, of course, would be to get a couple of highly directional antennas and join-tenna them together (a 43XG, perhaps?). Any suggestions? Anybody else in the Highlands having success?

My antennaweb.org results don't show 13.1 for some reason (used to), or 5.1 which I actually pull in most of the time:

* yellow - uhf KOMO-DT 4.1 ABC SEATTLE WA 271° 17.3 38
* yellow - uhf KSTW-DT 11.1 CW TACOMA WA 270° 15.0 36
* yellow - uhf KWDK-DT 42.1 DAY TACOMA WA 137° 3.5 42
* yellow - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 ION BELLEVUE WA 137° 3.5 32
* yellow - uhf KIRO-DT 7.1 CBS SEATTLE WA 271° 17.5 39
* red - uhf KHCV-DT 44.1 SAH SEATTLE WA 137° 3.5 44

Thanks!

nullptr
What are you cross streets?
Dan

Hi Dan, thanks for the quick response.

My cross streets are NE Mulberry St and 28th PL NE.

Hi Dan, thanks for the quick response.

My cross streets are NE Mulberry St and 28th PL NE.

nullptr
You're in a good area. Seattle ch's are easy, but ch13 can get a little fussy, even outdoor. You won't get ch28/27. It's behind the hill to the sw, and it's very weak. The DB8 or 4228 is overkill, and frankly not as good as the 4221 or the DB4. You only need to mount it on the west side of the house. Doesn't need to be on a rooftop. As long as it can see Seattle, it will work. I've even hung a one from under a deck that had a good view of Seattle. In the attic might work, but it's better outside for reliable reception.
Dan

My initial thinking on the overkill 4228 / DB8 was simply to compensate for the attic installation. Why is it that the 4221 would work better than its big (fat) brother? I was assuming that bigger is always better :)

My initial thinking on the overkill 4228 / DB8 was simply to compensate for the attic installation. Why is it that the 4221 would work better than its big (fat) brother? I was assuming that bigger is always better :)

nullptr
This is where theory meets real world.
You want the 4221, it's more forgiving, and you DON'T want to put it in the attic. I have a 4221 not 3 blocks from you, on the side of a house, works great. Attic installs are tricky, signals get really chopped up. The bigger antenna just makes it worse in this case. Outside, the 4228 is actually worse at reception, too. In ten years of HD install's, I've used one. I've installed hundreds of 4221's, among other antennas. It's not the do-all of antenna's, but in your case, it's what's called for.
Dan

Good to know, thanks for the help. I'll give the 4221 a go and report back.

Hi guys, I just moved to Seattle from Cincinnati, OH yesterday. I'm staying at my friend's house where I'm trying to pick up OTA channels for my HTPC. I guess due to the terrain and proximity at my house in Cincinnati, I was able to pick up the 4 network stations using a silver sensor inside my house just fine.

My friend's house is in Troussachs in Sammamish, WA. I'm not having much luck at all picking up any of the 4 network stations via OTA via my silver sensor. I was able to pick up some 5-6 PBS stations, but that's it. Does anyone know if there is ANY way that I can get OTA HD?

p.s. We live on the 2nd floor of a condo, and I don't think they'll let us put up an antenna. I was thinking maybe putting one of those outdoor antennas in the attic, but not sure if that would work either. Any help appreciated. Thanks guys.

Good to know, thanks for the help. I'll give the 4221 a go and report back.

Don't actually point it at Tacoma. The transmitter is on Gold Mountain, west of Bremerton. You can look up the angles at http://www.antennaweb.org.

Hi guys, I just moved to Seattle from Cincinnati, OH yesterday. I'm staying at my friend's house where I'm trying to pick up OTA channels for my HTPC. I guess due to the terrain and proximity at my house in Cincinnati, I was able to pick up the 4 network stations using a silver sensor inside my house just fine.

My friend's house is in Troussachs in Sammamish, WA. I'm not having much luck at all picking up any of the 4 network stations via OTA via my silver sensor. I was able to pick up some 5-6 PBS stations, but that's it. Does anyone know if there is ANY way that I can get OTA HD?

p.s. We live on the 2nd floor of a condo, and I don't think they'll let us put up an antenna. I was thinking maybe putting one of those outdoor antennas in the attic, but not sure if that would work either. Any help appreciated. Thanks guys.

Cbass98
Need some cross streets to figure out where you are.
Dan

troussachs blvd and 228th

troussachs blvd and 228th

Cbass98
Did you mean Trossachs Blvd SE and SE 28th?
Dan

Dan, I believe so. Sorry, still not familiar with this area. Thanks for the help btw.

Is it actually in HD? I had heard that they weren't going to be showing it in HD a while back because they didn't have the equipment to show syndicated shows in HD, only live network TV.

It's being remastered in HD. KSTW is broadcasting it in standard def but it still looks great. You can download the HD versions from XBox Live Video Marketplace (the SD versions are also available there).

For those Trekkies that are worried, the remastering hasn't changed the story content, just the look. None of this "Kirk fires second" stuff.

Dan, I believe so. Sorry, still not familiar with this area. Thanks for the help btw.

Cbass98
It's not a great area. I've done surveys around there and it's tough. There are spots where one or two channels may come in, but never found one where they would all come in. It's real hit/miss. The hill rises about 100ft over 2 miles until you get to 228th SE by the high school. There are a lot of trees, too, which add height to the hill and chop up the signal. I doubt you will have much luck with inside antennas of any type. You will pick up a few stations to the SE, but not much there of interest. The main channels are all basically west, where the hill is.
Dan

I think I'm missing something with my setup. I have all my equipment listed in my profile here so you can see what I have. The antennae are mounted in my attic (wood siding and composite roofing) high up in the second story of my house. If they could see out of my attic, the antennae would have a direct line-of-sight to Queen Anne Hill and the towers there. the signal strength is good to great, as listed by my HDTV's signal strength meters built-in. All the channels are doing very well, including several other normal (non-HD) tv's I have, except one -- Channel 5 - KING.

For some reason, the signal goes from about a 7 to 9 on a 10 scale and drops down to 0 (zero) about once every 8 to 30 seconds. It does this all during prime-time and usually does this in the evening or nighttime for hours at a time... rarely during the day. When it does this the audio and sometimes the picture drops out on the channel for about a second or two. When I look at the signal strength, it looks great except during these little non-bursts of dead air. I can't figure out what is causing it. I've tried moving the antennae, checked all the connections, etc, but nothing seems to help. All the SD signals on the other SD TV's look great all the time! I figured if 5 looks great, then 5.1 should be steady and reliable too right? Nope.

Anyway, can anyone ask me the right questions if I haven't given enough info, or give me an answer that might help?

Gear: Terrestrial Digital DB8 HD Antenna, Terrestrial Digital V21 UHF/VHF Antennae, TD UHF/VHF Ant Combiner, 80ft Quad-Shield MonsterCable Coax, Samsung HDTV HP-R5052

I think I'm missing something with my setup. I have all my equipment listed in my profile here so you can see what I have. The antennae are mounted in my attic (wood siding and composite roofing) high up in the second story of my house. If they could see out of my attic, the antennae would have a direct line-of-sight to Queen Anne Hill and the towers there. the signal strength is good to great, as listed by my HDTV's signal strength meters built-in. All the channels are doing very well, including several other normal (non-HD) tv's I have, except one -- Channel 5 - KING.

For some reason, the signal goes from about a 7 to 9 on a 10 scale and drops down to 0 (zero) about once every 8 to 30 seconds. It does this all during prime-time and usually does this in the evening or nighttime for hours at a time... rarely during the day. When it does this the audio and sometimes the picture drops out on the channel for about a second or two. When I look at the signal strength, it looks great except during these little non-bursts of dead air. I can't figure out what is causing it. I've tried moving the antennae, checked all the connections, etc, but nothing seems to help. All the SD signals on the other SD TV's look great all the time! I figured if 5 looks great, then 5.1 should be steady and reliable too right? Nope.

Anyway, can anyone ask me the right questions if I haven't given enough info, or give me an answer that might help?

Gear: Terrestrial Digital DB8 HD Antenna, Terrestrial Digital V21 UHF/VHF Antennae, TD UHF/VHF Ant Combiner, 80ft Quad-Shield MonsterCable Coax, Samsung HDTV HP-R5052

GJP
You need to get that DB8 antenna outside. Being in an attic chops up the signal. You're in a pretty good area for reception, which is why it's working. What you don't know is that the other signals could be rough, too, but it's within tolerance of the tuner. Ch48, 5 HD, is right on the edge. HD decoders are either on or off. When your signal gets just above minimum, you get decent readings, which are NOT signal strength, but signal to noise ratio. When it gets a hair weaker, it just falls off the cliff, what they call the avalanche effect. Your "meter" will then show zero. It's not like analog reception, where you can get all kinds of variations of picture quality, from ghosting, snow, noise, etc to great.
The DB8 has a pretty wide reception path, so as long as it's pointed towards Seattle, or NE, give or take, it should work fine. It doesn't need to be above the roof, just so it can get a clear shot from outside.
There are other possible reasons for your problem, but since the other channels are coming in okay, it's most likely just that it's in the attic. If you could see what your signal really looks like on a meter/analyzer, and then compare it to an outside antenna signal, the difference would be very apparent.
Try that first, and then let us know the results.
Dan

Hi, I'm new here. I live in the Ravenna part of Seattle and have always wanted to get good channel 28 (PBS) reception OTA. Is it possible? also does anyone get Channel 12 Bellingham OTA here in Seattle? I'm still using plain old TV, not HDTV but might make the switch is I could get one or both of these. all the other stations work well.

GJP
You need to get that DB8 antenna outside. Being in an attic chops up the signal. You're in a pretty good area for reception, which is why it's working. What you don't know is that the other signals could be rough, too, but it's within tolerance of the tuner. Ch48, 5 HD, is right on the edge. HD decoders are either on or off. When your signal gets just above minimum, you get decent readings, which are NOT signal strength, but signal to noise ratio. When it gets a hair weaker, it just falls off the cliff, what they call the avalanche effect. Your "meter" will then show zero. It's not like analog reception, where you can get all kinds of variations of picture quality, from ghosting, snow, noise, etc to great.
The DB8 has a pretty wide reception path, so as long as it's pointed towards Seattle, or NE, give or take, it should work fine. It doesn't need to be above the roof, just so it can get a clear shot from outside.
There are other possible reasons for your problem, but since the other channels are coming in okay, it's most likely just that it's in the attic. If you could see what your signal really looks like on a meter/analyzer, and then compare it to an outside antenna signal, the difference would be very apparent.
Try that first, and then let us know the results.
Dan

That did the trick! Every "meter" in the 5052 now shows at least 8/10 bars. Channel 5.1 now shows 10/10 bars consistently. :-) Thanks for the help.

Is anyone else having problems with there digital signal getting all pixelated, breaking up, and actually going blank? This happens on 660-664 the HD channels. It is real bad on the new MHD music channel. I contacted comcast, but they only offer the master reset of the box. I have checked my connections to the house, and I checked our non-DVR box as well. I am connecting via DVI/HDMI to my Samsung HLR 68" DLP. I have also tried going "component" over the DVI, and that didnt fix it. I even went as far as running the cable comming to the house directly to my DVR box to rule out any other bad connections.

Is it possible for a bad DVR? (actually probably not since it does the same on our non-DVR box)
Is it possible for a bad cable feed to the house? (from the pole)
Is it possible that these 2 specific channels are bad from the Source? (MHD)

Maybe if I knew what causes this I could do more research, like look for a bad ground, signal strength, etc

I cant record anything on these 2 channels and it is very frustrating.


Stu

Is anyone else having problems with there digital signal getting all pixelated, breaking up, and actually going blank? This happens on 660-664 the HD channels. It is real bad on the new MHD music channel. I contacted comcast, but they only offer the master reset of the box. I have checked my connections to the house, and I checked our non-DVR box as well. I am connecting via DVI/HDMI to my Samsung HLR 68" DLP. I have also tried going "component" over the DVI, and that didnt fix it. I even went as far as running the cable comming to the house directly to my DVR box to rule out any other bad connections.

Is it possible for a bad DVR? (actually probably not since it does the same on our non-DVR box)
Is it possible for a bad cable feed to the house? (from the pole)
Is it possible that these 2 specific channels are bad from the Source? (MHD)

Maybe if I knew what causes this I could do more research, like look for a bad ground, signal strength, etc

I cant record anything on these 2 channels and it is very frustrating.


Stu
Sounds like a Comcast issue really. I do know that they have been doing upgrades recently. My HSI went from 4mbps to 6 and on the TV side I have issues with normally rock solid channels being real iffy too. Only thing is to wait a few days and everything will calm down.

Boy if that isn't a great plug for OTA...never having to deal with Comcast again!

OK, another day down the drain of fiddling with my OTA antenna for no gain whatsoever.

Antenna web shows me the following DTV channels for my location:

* yellow - uhf KWOG-DT 51.1 IND BELLEVUE WA 132° 14.0 50
* yellow - uhf KWDK-DT 42.1 DAY TACOMA WA 133° 14.0 42
* yellow - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 ION BELLEVUE WA 133° 14.0 32
* red - uhf KMYQ-DT 22.1 MNT SEATTLE WA 225° 9.9 25
* red - uhf KIRO-DT 7.1 CBS SEATTLE WA 236° 11.6 39
* red - uhf KOMO-DT 4.1 ABC SEATTLE WA 235° 11.5 38
* red - uhf KCTS-DT 9.1 PBS SEATTLE WA 226° 10.0 41
* blue - uhf KCPQ-DT 13.1 FOX TACOMA WA 236° 33.4 18
* blue - uhf KING-DT 5.1 NBC SEATTLE WA 235° 11.4 48
* blue - uhf KHCV-DT 44.1 SAH SEATTLE WA 133° 14.0 44
* violet - uhf KONG-DT 16.1 IND EVERETT WA 235° 11.4 31
* violet - uhf KSTW-DT 11.1 CW TACOMA WA 225° 10.0 36

I have a 30 db Amplifier (like the channelmaster 7775) on a VU-190 antenna mounted on my chimney. I installed the amp today, hoping I would eliminate some possible signal loss through my 50' of RG-6 cable and possible a weak signal from the towers.

From antenna web, my channel map looks like:

A: 33, 33.1, 42.1, 44.1, 45, 51, 51.1
B: 3
C: 28
D: 9, 9.1, 11, 11.1, 22, 22.1
E: 4, 4.1, 5, 5.1, 7, 7.1, 13, 13.1, 16, 16.1
F: 62
G: 12


D listed channels are at 225 degrees, and E channels at 235 degrees.

With the antenna at 230 deg (right between the two), I can't get 1/2 of the E channels, and only the 9's and 11's of the D channels. At 235 deg, I can't get 5 or 5.1 and 4 and 4.1 are blocky at best.

I know I don't have LOS to the towers, there's a ridge between us. I'm not sure how high the ridge is above the tower, but it's not more than 15 degrees.

Can anyone tell me if I'm way off base thinking I should be able to get these OTA DTV channels? I thought I could save a few bucks over DirecTV's HD package, but I'm in it for over $225 plus my time for two good HD channels.

Thanks in advance everyone...

-Dave

I've searched the post and noticed a few folks in the Issaquah area. I'm out here at the intersection of SE Black Nugget Rd and Issaquah - Fall City - live in an apartment complex (2nd floor)

Wondering what my best bet is - going to have Dish try and come out in the next week or so. The DirecTV installer came out a few weeks back but the guy was, well an idiot. Lit up a cigarette before coming into my place then told me this tiny little try with a branch or two coming out from around the corner of my unit would "block" my signal so bad it wouldn't be worth it. I've noticed Dish network satellites pointed right at my building from an adjoining unit. Can't imagine they'd pay for it if they didn't get a signal. So hoping! Otherwise my only option is Millennium which from the BBB articles SUCKS!

So back to my question, just got a Samsung HLS4676S from Fry's this morning ($400 off) - wondering if I'd have any luck with an Inside OTA - seen a few at Fry's and BB.

Checked antennaweb and looks like I can... but? who knows!

Thanks!

Is anyone else having problems with there digital signal getting all pixelated, breaking up, and actually going blank? This happens on 660-664 the HD channels. It is real bad on the new MHD music channel. I contacted comcast, but they only offer the master reset of the box. I have checked my connections to the house, and I checked our non-DVR box as well. I am connecting via DVI/HDMI to my Samsung HLR 68" DLP. I have also tried going "component" over the DVI, and that didnt fix it. I even went as far as running the cable comming to the house directly to my DVR box to rule out any other bad connections.

Is it possible for a bad DVR? (actually probably not since it does the same on our non-DVR box)
Is it possible for a bad cable feed to the house? (from the pole)
Is it possible that these 2 specific channels are bad from the Source? (MHD)

Maybe if I knew what causes this I could do more research, like look for a bad ground, signal strength, etc

I cant record anything on these 2 channels and it is very frustrating.


Stu

Stu
The digital boxes have the same probs that the over air does, in that once signal gets too weak, you get the same pixelation or tiling. Some boxes are more sensitive than others, even those of the same type/model. A tech needs to get out there and check levels for you. That's what you pay for in the service, get on 'em!
Dan

Hi, I'm new here. I live in the Ravenna part of Seattle and have always wanted to get good channel 28 (PBS) reception OTA. Is it possible? also does anyone get Channel 12 Bellingham OTA here in Seattle? I'm still using plain old TV, not HDTV but might make the switch is I could get one or both of these. all the other stations work well.

Mark48
Analog reception of 28 is possible, but it's not pretty. Ch9 transmits with about 600kw, ch28 has only about 6kw, and is a lot further south in Pt. Defiance area. Also their antenna is not very high, so hills are in the way. Unless you have line of sight on UHF, it gets ugly in a hurry. Also, HD reception of 28 is not likely. Bellingham is also a problem. It's antenna is oriented for that area, not Seattle. It comes into conflict with ch11 and ch13. If you live more towards Shoreline on the bluff, or further north, it's possible, but you still get some side channel interference from 11 and 13. A good outdoor antenna can almost make it work perfect in those locations. You're way to close to Capital Hill for that, even if all the other terrain wasn't in the way.
Basic cable for $12/mo has all the locals.
Dan

OK, another day down the drain of fiddling with my OTA antenna for no gain whatsoever.

Antenna web shows me the following DTV channels for my location:

* yellow - uhf KWOG-DT 51.1 IND BELLEVUE WA 132° 14.0 50
* yellow - uhf KWDK-DT 42.1 DAY TACOMA WA 133° 14.0 42
* yellow - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 ION BELLEVUE WA 133° 14.0 32
* red - uhf KMYQ-DT 22.1 MNT SEATTLE WA 225° 9.9 25
* red - uhf KIRO-DT 7.1 CBS SEATTLE WA 236° 11.6 39
* red - uhf KOMO-DT 4.1 ABC SEATTLE WA 235° 11.5 38
* red - uhf KCTS-DT 9.1 PBS SEATTLE WA 226° 10.0 41
* blue - uhf KCPQ-DT 13.1 FOX TACOMA WA 236° 33.4 18
* blue - uhf KING-DT 5.1 NBC SEATTLE WA 235° 11.4 48
* blue - uhf KHCV-DT 44.1 SAH SEATTLE WA 133° 14.0 44
* violet - uhf KONG-DT 16.1 IND EVERETT WA 235° 11.4 31
* violet - uhf KSTW-DT 11.1 CW TACOMA WA 225° 10.0 36

I have a 30 db Amplifier (like the channelmaster 7775) on a VU-190 antenna mounted on my chimney. I installed the amp today, hoping I would eliminate some possible signal loss through my 50' of RG-6 cable and possible a weak signal from the towers.

From antenna web, my channel map looks like:

A: 33, 33.1, 42.1, 44.1, 45, 51, 51.1
B: 3
C: 28
D: 9, 9.1, 11, 11.1, 22, 22.1
E: 4, 4.1, 5, 5.1, 7, 7.1, 13, 13.1, 16, 16.1
F: 62
G: 12


D listed channels are at 225 degrees, and E channels at 235 degrees.

With the antenna at 230 deg (right between the two), I can't get 1/2 of the E channels, and only the 9's and 11's of the D channels. At 235 deg, I can't get 5 or 5.1 and 4 and 4.1 are blocky at best.

I know I don't have LOS to the towers, there's a ridge between us. I'm not sure how high the ridge is above the tower, but it's not more than 15 degrees.

Can anyone tell me if I'm way off base thinking I should be able to get these OTA DTV channels? I thought I could save a few bucks over DirecTV's HD package, but I'm in it for over $225 plus my time for two good HD channels.

Thanks in advance everyone...

-Dave

Dave
Send some cross streets for location.
Dan

I've searched the post and noticed a few folks in the Issaquah area. I'm out here at the intersection of SE Black Nugget Rd and Issaquah - Fall City - live in an apartment complex (2nd floor)

Wondering what my best bet is - going to have Dish try and come out in the next week or so. The DirecTV installer came out a few weeks back but the guy was, well an idiot. Lit up a cigarette before coming into my place then told me this tiny little try with a branch or two coming out from around the corner of my unit would "block" my signal so bad it wouldn't be worth it. I've noticed Dish network satellites pointed right at my building from an adjoining unit. Can't imagine they'd pay for it if they didn't get a signal. So hoping! Otherwise my only option is Millennium which from the BBB articles SUCKS!

So back to my question, just got a Samsung HLS4676S from Fry's this morning ($400 off) - wondering if I'd have any luck with an Inside OTA - seen a few at Fry's and BB.

Checked antennaweb and looks like I can... but? who knows!

Thanks!


mplutodh1
You're just behind the hill to the NW. With trees and buildings in the way, not much chance. If you were a little further up the hill on 229th and 58th, slam dunk for 4,5, and 7. Millenium is not the best, but can work. I would give them a shot, first. No equipment to buy and no dish hassle. If it doesn't work out, then try the both satellite peoples.
Dan

Looks like ION (ne PAX) has a new digital channel coming. 33-3 used to be "ion E" which was the East Coast feed of "ion". Basically, it was the same content as 33-1 "ion" just 3 hours earlier. Now, it's a got a repeating loop for "IONLife" which is "coming soon".

OK, another day down the drain of fiddling with my OTA antenna for no gain whatsoever.

Antenna web shows me the following DTV channels for my location:

* yellow - uhf KWOG-DT 51.1 IND BELLEVUE WA 132° 14.0 50
* yellow - uhf KWDK-DT 42.1 DAY TACOMA WA 133° 14.0 42
* yellow - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 ION BELLEVUE WA 133° 14.0 32
* red - uhf KMYQ-DT 22.1 MNT SEATTLE WA 225° 9.9 25
* red - uhf KIRO-DT 7.1 CBS SEATTLE WA 236° 11.6 39
* red - uhf KOMO-DT 4.1 ABC SEATTLE WA 235° 11.5 38
* red - uhf KCTS-DT 9.1 PBS SEATTLE WA 226° 10.0 41
* blue - uhf KCPQ-DT 13.1 FOX TACOMA WA 236° 33.4 18
* blue - uhf KING-DT 5.1 NBC SEATTLE WA 235° 11.4 48
* blue - uhf KHCV-DT 44.1 SAH SEATTLE WA 133° 14.0 44
* violet - uhf KONG-DT 16.1 IND EVERETT WA 235° 11.4 31
* violet - uhf KSTW-DT 11.1 CW TACOMA WA 225° 10.0 36

I have a 30 db Amplifier (like the channelmaster 7775) on a VU-190 antenna mounted on my chimney. I installed the amp today, hoping I would eliminate some possible signal loss through my 50' of RG-6 cable and possible a weak signal from the towers.

From antenna web, my channel map looks like:

A: 33, 33.1, 42.1, 44.1, 45, 51, 51.1
B: 3
C: 28
D: 9, 9.1, 11, 11.1, 22, 22.1
E: 4, 4.1, 5, 5.1, 7, 7.1, 13, 13.1, 16, 16.1
F: 62
G: 12


D listed channels are at 225 degrees, and E channels at 235 degrees.

With the antenna at 230 deg (right between the two), I can't get 1/2 of the E channels, and only the 9's and 11's of the D channels. At 235 deg, I can't get 5 or 5.1 and 4 and 4.1 are blocky at best.

I know I don't have LOS to the towers, there's a ridge between us. I'm not sure how high the ridge is above the tower, but it's not more than 15 degrees.

Can anyone tell me if I'm way off base thinking I should be able to get these OTA DTV channels? I thought I could save a few bucks over DirecTV's HD package, but I'm in it for over $225 plus my time for two good HD channels.

Thanks in advance everyone...

-Dave

Dave
You're in a good spot. The hill to the SW is in the way, but not that much. It does tend to break up the signal, though. The antenna you're using is fair at best for the location. It's also a little bit more directional than you need. Is the preamp close to the antenna, or inside? What brand is it? Have you tried different mounting locations? A foot or two in any direction can make or break it. I would suggest the 4221 as a better antenna. It has a wider path. I have one working below you at 162nd and 90th, and it has a 7775 preamp. You may not need a preamp with a 4221 at your location. 50 ft of coax has very little loss, no worries there. If you get the right spot, and there's nothing in the way near you, it should work. Rat Shack will take the antenna back, too.
Let us know what happens.
Dan

Hi, I'm looking to upgrade my current OTA antenna setup up in the Issaquah Highlands. Currently I'm using a Silver Sensor $20 indoor antenna. I get spotty reception on 4.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.X, 11.1, 22.1, and some others. I actually have two of these antennas, and get similar results on my PC tuner on the 3rd floor and my TV or second PC tuner on the basement floor. It sometimes works fine, but it's not reliable enough for me to dump my Comcast HD / DVR service, which is the goal.

So, I'm looking to upgrade my antenna. I'm pretty confident that I can improve my signal on the main stations by getting anything better than the current SS, but I would really like to pick up 13.1 (Tacoma) as well.

I'm thinking about attic mounting a CM4228 or a DB8 -- if I point it towards Tacoma I think I might be able to pick up the main stations (closer) from Seattle, but I'm not really sure. Another option, of course, would be to get a couple of highly directional antennas and join-tenna them together (a 43XG, perhaps?). Any suggestions? Anybody else in the Highlands having success?

My antennaweb.org results don't show 13.1 for some reason (used to), or 5.1 which I actually pull in most of the time:

* yellow - uhf KOMO-DT 4.1 ABC SEATTLE WA 271° 17.3 38
* yellow - uhf KSTW-DT 11.1 CW TACOMA WA 270° 15.0 36
* yellow - uhf KWDK-DT 42.1 DAY TACOMA WA 137° 3.5 42
* yellow - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 ION BELLEVUE WA 137° 3.5 32
* yellow - uhf KIRO-DT 7.1 CBS SEATTLE WA 271° 17.5 39
* red - uhf KHCV-DT 44.1 SAH SEATTLE WA 137° 3.5 44

Thanks!

OK, so I got my 4221 today, and set it up temporarily in a 3rd floor spare room, mounted high and staring right out the window with an easy view of Seattle. Visibility was pretty good tonight, despite the wind and rain.

First I plugged it in to my cable outlet on the wall, I'm guessing it's about a 50 foot run down to the network box in the garage, then another 50 feet (more than necessary, but that was the cable I had) of good quality RG6 to my HTPC. Tried two different tuners on the PC, as well as my Sony TV's tuner.

Overall, fairly disappointing -- reception on the Seattle channels was generally good, but spotty on KING-5 ... barely better than my Silver Sensor. KCPQ was totally dead, couldn't get a single frame from it on any of my tuners.

Concerned about the cable length, I unplugged the antenna from the wall jack and connected it to an upstairs PC via a 50-foot run of good quality RG6. The results were generally the same, so I tried moving the antenna around ... I moved it to a different room on the west side of the house, sitting on the floor tilted upwards, and was able to get some signal on KCPQ, although it was very spotty. Other channels in that antenna position were pretty bad though.

Overall, after fiddling with things for a couple of hours, I'm not in much better shape than I was with the Silver Sensor(s), and those were in the basement!

I'm assuming that mounting it in front of a window would be preferable to an attic installation in terms of signal acquisition, but worse than mounting outside ... but how much better can I expect it to get? Any other tips? Hopefully I'm missing something obvious ... right now it's not looking good for me.

Also, HD reception of 28 is not likely.
Dan

I can get channel 28 (27 DT) in Wallingford now. Used to be too little signal until a few weeks ago, but they must have done something and now I get it ok. I'm near the top of the hill so I'm sure that helps a lot. Ravenna is going to have the U district in the way.

I recently replaced my digital receiver going from a Digital Stream 3150+ to a Sony DHG-HDD500. I'm using this for OTA only. I have a rooftop antenna with a rotor. Will an amplifier help my ability to lock on to digital stations better? My signal in the Sony menu is in the range from 65-75% in these stations that go in and out.

Thanks,
Rob

Analog reception of 28 is possible, but it's not pretty. Ch9 transmits with about 600kw, ch28 has only about 6kw, and is a lot further south in Pt. Defiance area. Also their antenna is not very high, so hills are in the way. Unless you have line of sight on UHF, it gets ugly in a hurry. Also, HD reception of 28 is not likely. Bellingham is also a problem. It's antenna is oriented for that area, not Seattle. It comes into conflict with ch11 and ch13. If you live more towards Shoreline on the bluff, or further north, it's possible, but you still get some side channel interference from 11 and 13. A good outdoor antenna can almost make it work perfect in those locations. You're way to close to Capital Hill for that, even if all the other terrain wasn't in the way.

[Dan, please don't take this as a contradiction of what you've written! You know this stuff far better than I do!]

I live on top of Capitol Hill, about midway between Volunteer Park & the antenna farm. With even the cheapest of indoor antennas, as long as I use a good _selective_ (not only sensitive) tuner, I can get a very nice analogue picture on KVOS/12 and a perfectly watchable analogue picture on CKVU/10. In theory, the mere hundreds of feet to KCTS and KSTW should render them unwatchable, and on most tuners, they certainly do, but a solid tuner seems to do wonders when rejecting first-adjacent channel interference.

OK, so I got my 4221 today, and set it up temporarily in a 3rd floor spare room, mounted high and staring right out the window with an easy view of Seattle. Visibility was pretty good tonight, despite the wind and rain.

First I plugged it in to my cable outlet on the wall, I'm guessing it's about a 50 foot run down to the network box in the garage, then another 50 feet (more than necessary, but that was the cable I had) of good quality RG6 to my HTPC. Tried two different tuners on the PC, as well as my Sony TV's tuner.

Overall, fairly disappointing -- reception on the Seattle channels was generally good, but spotty on KING-5 ... barely better than my Silver Sensor. KCPQ was totally dead, couldn't get a single frame from it on any of my tuners.

Concerned about the cable length, I unplugged the antenna from the wall jack and connected it to an upstairs PC via a 50-foot run of good quality RG6. The results were generally the same, so I tried moving the antenna around ... I moved it to a different room on the west side of the house, sitting on the floor tilted upwards, and was able to get some signal on KCPQ, although it was very spotty. Other channels in that antenna position were pretty bad though.

Overall, after fiddling with things for a couple of hours, I'm not in much better shape than I was with the Silver Sensor(s), and those were in the basement!

I'm assuming that mounting it in front of a window would be preferable to an attic installation in terms of signal acquisition, but worse than mounting outside ... but how much better can I expect it to get? Any other tips? Hopefully I'm missing something obvious ... right now it's not looking good for me.

nullptr
I can't comment on the receivers you're using, haven't seen them. Windows normally don't block too much, but there are exceptions. I can say, as before, I have the 4221 working 3 or 4 blocks south of you, on the side of a house facing west, line of sight, gets all the Seattle channels. Signal on my meter was great. If you have no trees in the way, and can see the downtown buildings, you should be fine. Obviously somethings amiss. Be sure the balun is secured to the main boom without any twists, like this picture. Try a new piece of cable, and you can hang the antenna out the window so it faces west and is vertical to see what happens.
Dan

[Dan, please don't take this as a contradiction of what you've written! You know this stuff far better than I do!]

I live on top of Capitol Hill, about midway between Volunteer Park & the antenna farm. With even the cheapest of indoor antennas, as long as I use a good _selective_ (not only sensitive) tuner, I can get a very nice analogue picture on KVOS/12 and a perfectly watchable analogue picture on CKVU/10. In theory, the mere hundreds of feet to KCTS and KSTW should render them unwatchable, and on most tuners, they certainly do, but a solid tuner seems to do wonders when rejecting first-adjacent channel interference.

pastiche
Well, miracles DO happen! The tuner you're using is very very good. Never seen anything near that reception in that area, and I've seen a few and a half. Think you should buy a Mega ticket!
Dan

I recently replaced my digital receiver going from a Digital Stream 3150+ to a Sony DHG-HDD500. I'm using this for OTA only. I have a rooftop antenna with a rotor. Will an amplifier help my ability to lock on to digital stations better? My signal in the Sony menu is in the range from 65-75% in these stations that go in and out.

Thanks,
Rob


Rob
Hard to say. Many things could be going on. It might work. You could actually have a very weak signal. It will show as good numbers and then when it gets close to the minimum required level, it will just quit, not gradual, because it's on or off at that point. I would suggest the 7775 Channel Master. You may find that you'll have to rotate the antenna a bit off direction to get the picture. If so, it's probably a bit strong, so use a 10db attenuator right at the input to the receiver.
Dan

I can get channel 28 (27 DT) in Wallingford now. Used to be too little signal until a few weeks ago, but they must have done something and now I get it ok. I'm near the top of the hill so I'm sure that helps a lot. Ravenna is going to have the U district in the way.

tap
Doesn't surprise me. Ch28's run by Bates Technical School. Could be some people trying out some new ideas. Over the years I've seen it go up and down in level somewhat, but not much. I keep tabs on all the channels using my own antenna as a ref point. Not good or bad, just to see wassup with the signals. In any case, when I install an antenna in Ravenna area behind the U, and do a scan, 99% of the time nothing comes in. My meter also says it's quite weak. Good thing is there are some new tuners out there that are much better with weak signals. Hopefully, they'll work their way into all the TV's. Things are already way better than ten years ago. My trusty old Panasonic TU-50 (Originally $3000 for an over air only tuner!) still works, but is not real swift compared to my new Samsung 260 that just came out. It runs circles around it, light years better, and only $179. Might even work in Ravenna. Only true way to find out is to try one. Never say never!
Dan

Please Help! Corner of 224th & 93 In Edmonds. Haven't had much luck pulling in any digital channels. I'm currently using a indoor philips silver sensor & only able to view KCPQ-HD. On a good day i can get KIRO-HD unlaggy. Unable to view any of the others. Really would like to view KOMO. Looking to buy new antenna open for suggestion.

Thank You

Frequency Assignment
* yellow - uhf KCPQ-DT 13.1 FOX TACOMA WA 213° 27.0 18
* red - uhf KCTS-DT 9.1 PBS SEATTLE WA 151° 12.7 41
* red - uhf KTBW-DT 14.1 TBN TACOMA WA 212° 26.6 14
* red - uhf KING-DT 5.1 NBC SEATTLE WA 160° 11.4 48
* red - uhf KIRO-DT 7.1 CBS SEATTLE WA 161° 11.2 39
* red - uhf KMYQ-DT 22.1 MNT SEATTLE WA 151° 12.7 25
* red - uhf KOMO-DT 4.1 ABC SEATTLE WA 161° 11.4 38
* blue - uhf KONG-DT 16.1 IND EVERETT WA 160° 11.4 31
* blue - uhf KSTW-DT 11.1 CW TACOMA WA 151° 12.7 36
* blue - uhf KWDK-DT 42.1 DAY TACOMA WA 120° 27.1 42
* violet - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 ION BELLEVUE WA 120° 27.1 32

pastiche
Well, miracles DO happen! The tuner you're using is very very good. Never seen anything near that reception in that area, and I've seen a few and a half. Think you should buy a Mega ticket!
Dan

Dan, you'll probably get a kick out of the details on this: the lucky tuner is on the 13" Zenith in my kitchen. It's probably about 20 years old, complete with tuning dials (up to 83!) and twin-lead antenna terminals. As long as the AFC's turned off (don't you sometimes wish that was still an option?) the selectivity's amazing. I suppose the screen size does do well to mask SOME defects, but it's served me well.

nullptr
I can't comment on the receivers you're using, haven't seen them. Windows normally don't block too much, but there are exceptions. I can say, as before, I have the 4221 working 3 or 4 blocks south of you, on the side of a house facing west, line of sight, gets all the Seattle channels. Signal on my meter was great. If you have no trees in the way, and can see the downtown buildings, you should be fine. Obviously somethings amiss. Be sure the balun is secured to the main boom without any twists, like this picture. Try a new piece of cable, and you can hang the antenna out the window so it faces west and is vertical to see what happens.
Dan

Yeah, that could be a picture of my balun ... I re-fastened it though, just to be sure. There are some trees, but they aren't very "full" and they are probably two stone throws away (I used to be a pitcher, so they're decent tosses :) ). Honestly, they aren't really in the way anyways, I have a clear view of Seattle's building lights with no obstruction.

I shortened my cable run a bit, upgraded my coax connector (not splitter), played with the antenna positioning, and right now I'm getting the Seattle stations pretty well, but I don't have a whole lot of faith in it just yet.

Is there any chance at all of picking up KCPQ from out here? I was really hoping I'd be able to pick that up ... the current signal strength doesn't give me any confidence that a roof installation would help. Actually, it would be REALLY nice if they would switch the transmitters for KCPQ and MyQ² ... is _anybody_ watching that channel? :D

Any other suggestions? Thanks again for your help so far.

Please Help! Corner of 224th & 93 In Edmonds. Haven't had much luck pulling in any digital channels. I'm currently using a indoor philips silver sensor & only able to view KCPQ-HD. On a good day i can get KIRO-HD unlaggy. Unable to view any of the others. Really would like to view KOMO. Looking to buy new antenna open for suggestion.

Thank You

Frequency Assignment
* yellow - uhf KCPQ-DT 13.1 FOX TACOMA WA 213° 27.0 18
* red - uhf KCTS-DT 9.1 PBS SEATTLE WA 151° 12.7 41
* red - uhf KTBW-DT 14.1 TBN TACOMA WA 212° 26.6 14
* red - uhf KING-DT 5.1 NBC SEATTLE WA 160° 11.4 48
* red - uhf KIRO-DT 7.1 CBS SEATTLE WA 161° 11.2 39
* red - uhf KMYQ-DT 22.1 MNT SEATTLE WA 151° 12.7 25
* red - uhf KOMO-DT 4.1 ABC SEATTLE WA 161° 11.4 38
* blue - uhf KONG-DT 16.1 IND EVERETT WA 160° 11.4 31
* blue - uhf KSTW-DT 11.1 CW TACOMA WA 151° 12.7 36
* blue - uhf KWDK-DT 42.1 DAY TACOMA WA 120° 27.1 42
* violet - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 ION BELLEVUE WA 120° 27.1 32

Judbud
By the map, it's not a great area, but possible. What makes it tricky is there's about 3 miles of rising hills and a ton of trees in the way. All really make a mess out of the signal. Most of the time I ended up using a big yagi, like the Channel Master 4248 and their 7775 preamp. If ch13 didn't come in, then I added a second small antenna for that. It comes to you from the SW and there's nothing in the way, so that's why it's a slam dunk. An indoor antenna at that location is just too little. You need to be outdoors, and have a lot of patience finding the right mounting spot. It is possible. Will you get them all? Can't say for sure. Only real way to find out is to try it. The bow tie style antennas are not going to work that well in those trees. To give you an idea, of the dozen or so I've done behind the hill at 145thNW, it took about an hour or two using my meter to get the best spot. It will be longer for you, as your "strength indicator" is going to bounce around a bit. Patience is the key, and move the antenna s-l-o-w-l-y and then wait a few seconds, then do it again. When the signal is all chopped up, the decoder/tuner takes longer to lock in and then give you a reading.
Dan

Yeah, that could be a picture of my balun ... I re-fastened it though, just to be sure. There are some trees, but they aren't very "full" and they are probably two stone throws away (I used to be a pitcher, so they're decent tosses :) ). Honestly, they aren't really in the way anyways, I have a clear view of Seattle's building lights with no obstruction.

I shortened my cable run a bit, upgraded my coax connector (not splitter), played with the antenna positioning, and right now I'm getting the Seattle stations pretty well, but I don't have a whole lot of faith in it just yet.

Is there any chance at all of picking up KCPQ from out here? I was really hoping I'd be able to pick that up ... the current signal strength doesn't give me any confidence that a roof installation would help. Actually, it would be REALLY nice if they would switch the transmitters for KCPQ and MyQ² ... is _anybody_ watching that channel? :D

Any other suggestions? Thanks again for your help so far.

nullptr
Ch13 comes more from the SW, and that big hill to your left is a bit of a problem. But it did come in for me at the house nearby, and the customer had a cheapie never-heard-of-the-name set, so if his tuner worked, your's should. You don't have to put it on the roof, just on the side so it can see Seattle will work fine. My 4221 antenna is only 8ft above the ground on the side of my house, works fine. Done many that way.
If you can, put a ladder against the house, and then set the antenna on top, leaning back against the house and try that. Cable length is not a problem for you. 50 ft is fine. The only other thing that might be the problem is your tuner. I'm sure you're not overloading it, but it could be having some personal problems.
Dan

Dan, you'll probably get a kick out of the details on this: the lucky tuner is on the 13" Zenith in my kitchen. It's probably about 20 years old, complete with tuning dials (up to 83!) and twin-lead antenna terminals. As long as the AFC's turned off (don't you sometimes wish that was still an option?) the selectivity's amazing. I suppose the screen size does do well to mask SOME defects, but it's served me well.

pastiche
No, actually it doesn't surprise me. Most people are not aware of Zenith's history in radios. I have one of the last tune Trans Oceanic's, model 600. And a 1964 transistor Oceanic. They have amazing reception. I can listen to the Vancouver Oldies station, about 650khz AM with the transistor one, during the day! Just try to do that with any "modern" radio. Some of the real fancy component tuners can do it, but you have to set the bandwidth to narrow, and tweak the settings. THe Zenith just needs to have the dial turned, and the WaveMagnet turned a bit, and you're good. Their TV's were always made of the best stuff, and performed well, at least up into the mid 70's. The small screen and the age of your CRT is going to hide a bunch of the reception flaws. But the tuner in those was the same on used in their expensive sets and VCR's.
Yeah, AFC can be a pain sometimes. I remember some sets had an auto AFC switch that would turn off as long as you held in the fine tuning knob, but then switched back on when you let go. If the circuit wasn't adjusted right, it could mis-tune the signal into a softer area, or worse, past the color carrier and you would have great B&W picture on your color set! ARGGGHHH!
Glad I don't fight those dogs anymore. Surprised you tuner isn't scratchy. By now the contacts inside usually get very touchy from being corroded. Used to use denatured alcohol and an eraser to gently clean them, and then put tuner cream on to keep them from getting dirty again. Worked for about a year or two until the cream got dirty and you were back to scratchy. You could repeat the process for years and never wear it out, though.
But I digress. Comes with being a geezer!
Hang on to the TV if you like it. I know a few good old boys that still work on them at reasonable prices. One thing most people never get, but is really true, they will last longer if you use them everyday, just like people. Let it set for a month or two, and it will start to give you problems. The CRT, if not overdriven by high contrast/brightness, can easily last 30 years or more. And then you can always give it a blast with a checker and throw on a heater booster and get another 5 years or more out of it. I nursed my old Quasar for almost 30 years before replacement cards just got too expensive, but it still had a decent picture when it went to the Goodwill. And my 1961 Motorola Astronaut 19" B&W still looked good in 2000 when I sold it.
Happy tuning!
Dan

nullptr
Ch13 comes more from the SW, and that big hill to your left is a bit of a problem. But it did come in for me at the house nearby, and the customer had a cheapie never-heard-of-the-name set, so if his tuner worked, your's should. You don't have to put it on the roof, just on the side so it can see Seattle will work fine. My 4221 antenna is only 8ft above the ground on the side of my house, works fine. Done many that way.
If you can, put a ladder against the house, and then set the antenna on top, leaning back against the house and try that. Cable length is not a problem for you. 50 ft is fine. The only other thing that might be the problem is your tuner. I'm sure you're not overloading it, but it could be having some personal problems.
Dan

My house is taller than my tallest ladder, so I decided to do the best I could by hanging the antenna out my window temporarily with my arms ... I made sure my neighbors had already put out their trash cans, so nobody would get hurt :o

In any case, I tuned to KCPQ via one of my HTPC tuners (by way of an Xbox 360 in earshot), cranked the volume, opened the window, and started moving the antenna. Much to my surprise, before it even got outside the window my TV started making noise. I shut the window, set the antenna on the window sill, anchored it at the top with my blinds ... I sat down waiting for the signal to cut out, and it didn't.

It's kind of amazing, really -- went from nothing to (seemingly) perfect moving the antenna only 5 feet! Never even had to put it outside. Anyways, I'm going to leave it there for a little while, record some shows tonight on both of my ATSC PC tuners, and see how it goes. Assuming it keeps working, I'll find something more permanent.

Thanks again!

It looks like comcast moved the HD channels again. From what I gather, they removed KING HD (83-1) and KONG HD (83-2). Anyone find out what the new channels are and what else has been moved?

My house is taller than my tallest ladder, so I decided to do the best I could by hanging the antenna out my window temporarily with my arms ... I made sure my neighbors had already put out their trash cans, so nobody would get hurt :o

In any case, I tuned to KCPQ via one of my HTPC tuners (by way of an Xbox 360 in earshot), cranked the volume, opened the window, and started moving the antenna. Much to my surprise, before it even got outside the window my TV started making noise. I shut the window, set the antenna on the window sill, anchored it at the top with my blinds ... I sat down waiting for the signal to cut out, and it didn't.

It's kind of amazing, really -- went from nothing to (seemingly) perfect moving the antenna only 5 feet! Never even had to put it outside. Anyways, I'm going to leave it there for a little while, record some shows tonight on both of my ATSC PC tuners, and see how it goes. Assuming it keeps working, I'll find something more permanent.

Thanks again!

nullptr
At UHF frequencies, you only have to move the antenna about 1/4 wavelength to see changes. That's about 4" to 8", moved in any direction.
Glad to hear it was something simple.
Dan

It looks like comcast moved the HD channels again. From what I gather, they removed KING HD (83-1) and KONG HD (83-2). Anyone find out what the new channels are and what else has been moved?

Wonderful!
Now I get to go around to a few dozen remotes and reprogram them.....arggghhh!
I'll do a scan on mine and see wassup, if I can stay awake.........
Dan

nullptr
At UHF frequencies, you only have to move the antenna about 1/4 wavelength to see changes. That's about 4" to 8", moved in any direction.
Glad to hear it was something simple.
Dan

Yeah, I can believe it! So, I recorded several programs last night -- KCPQ held up just fine (perfect, in fact), but KIRO was a little spotty and KING was totally, completely dead. What's especially strange is that KONG was fine ... I would have assumed those come out of the same general location. In any case, I'm not out of the woods yet, but at least I've learned the power of the ever-so-scientific "move stuff around" process ... :confused:

I spoke to engineers at ION (33) and KBTS (28) yesterday about adding their sub-channel listings to TVGOS. Neither one of them was aware of the TVGOS transmission by the host KCTS. Both seemed eager to do what is necessary to make that happen.

I know this only affects a small number of people on this thread so I'm also posting it to the TVGOS and the Sony DHG- HDD250/500 threads

Surprised you tuner isn't scratchy. By now the contacts inside usually get very touchy from being corroded. Used to use denatured alcohol and an eraser to gently clean them, and then put tuner cream on to keep them from getting dirty again. Worked for about a year or two until the cream got dirty and you were back to scratchy. You could repeat the process for years and never wear it out, though.

Scratchy, it is. I think that if I could tune it on first try (without going a couple channels too far, a couple back, then stopping on the right one!), I'd think something was wrong. :)

Yeah, I can believe it! So, I recorded several programs last night -- KCPQ held up just fine (perfect, in fact), but KIRO was a little spotty and KING was totally, completely dead. What's especially strange is that KONG was fine ... I would have assumed those come out of the same general location. In any case, I'm not out of the woods yet, but at least I've learned the power of the ever-so-scientific "move stuff around" process ... :confused:

nullptr
Actually, if you saw what the signal looks like on an analyzer, it's very scientific to move things around when they get touchy. KING & KONG are very different frequencies (about 470mhz and 638mhz) have different power outputs and transmitting patterns. It's the nature of the beast to get fussy on certain channels for a variety of reasons. When you can do some checking with an antenna and meter, the reasons for your problems become clear. To speculate without testing is just guessing. You've already done some good work, but without seeing a meter hooked up to it, it would be hard to give an exact reason.
Keep at it. Patience is the key.
Dan

Wonderful!
Now I get to go around to a few dozen remotes and reprogram them.....arggghhh!
I'll do a scan on mine and see wassup, if I can stay awake.........
Dan
They moved KING and KONG to 85.2 and 86.1 respectively. But they also added more channels for future expansion it looks like. Bonus for right now...may not last long...I am also getting 4 channels of In-Demand at 115.4, 115.5, 115.6 and 115.7 which are the same as Comcast 804, 805, 806 and 807.

They moved KING and KONG to 85.2 and 86.1 respectively. But they also added more channels for future expansion it looks like. Bonus for right now...may not last long...I am also getting 4 channels of In-Demand at 115.4, 115.5, 115.6 and 115.7 which are the same as Comcast 804, 805, 806 and 807.

bigpoppa206
Thanks!
I'll do a scan in a bit and let you know wassup in So King Co.
Dan

Asked in the Comcast thread, but its dead over there. Anyone else having issues with Comcast cable lately? Digital artifacts all over the place, had to switch to OTA for a decent picture on CBS.

Asked in the Comcast thread, but its dead over there. Anyone else having issues with Comcast cable lately? Digital artifacts all over the place, had to switch to OTA for a decent picture on CBS.

I haven't noticed it. I have one tuner that records OTA and two off Comcast (the OTA tuner has priority), so I'm never sure what's recorded from where, but I do often have two things record at once, and I've not noticed any such issues.

I haven't noticed it. I have one tuner that records OTA and two off Comcast (the OTA tuner has priority), so I'm never sure what's recorded from where, but I do often have two things record at once, and I've not noticed any such issues.
OTA has been rock solid which is why I'm guessing Comcast must be fiddling with something.

Asked in the Comcast thread, but its dead over there. Anyone else having issues with Comcast cable lately? Digital artifacts all over the place, had to switch to OTA for a decent picture on CBS.

Haven't noticed much of anything like that. You may have a signal quality or level issue. Have you checked the S/N ratio on the Comcast box? Perhaps loosen and tighten all your cables. One person reported that this solved his issue.

Haven't noticed much of anything like that. You may have a signal quality or level issue. Have you checked the S/N ratio on the Comcast box? Perhaps loosen and tighten all your cables. One person reported that this solved his issue.
Using my own box (DTB-H260F) into a Samsung set, and yeah I checked all connections so I'm sure that's not the problem. Interesting side note, analog cable is fine but digital cable is having problems, ie. stuttering and random digital artifacts. Also have HSI and no problems on that side either.

I am posting this with the hope it helps someone else.

I live near Redmond Community Center( Near RTC) 166th Ave NE and NE 83rd. I tried several indoor outdoor amplified/non amplified antennas and could get around 4 to 5 HD channels. Typically KCPQ(FOX), KOMO, ION, Qubo and some other Shop TV ect crap. The best I was able to get was using a Mesh Fruit basket vertically behind an indoor UHF antenna pointing at around 225/230 deg( better than some outside amplified $50-80 antennas.

I was interested mainly in KCTS programming, so I thought I should give shot to Radio Shack U-75R UHF outdoor antenna for $25 ( very small outdoor antenna, and light at 2.5lb)
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088

I did not mount it on roof, nor chimney, just mounted it outside on fence( at about 8' high and mine is duplex and there are several 2+ house in this area. Connected with about 40' RG6 cable. Pointed at about 235 deg.

Wow!, thats all I can say. Every channel listed by antennaweb.org plus some, using WinTV-PVR 1600 HD/Ananlog tuner. Beyond TV 4.6

Here are channels I am getting right now

Without any problems with 90+ signal strength typical 94% on most useful channels for me.

1041 KOMO-DT
1051 KING-DT( see some dropouts when weather is bad)
1052 KING-SD
1071 KIRO-DT
1072 KIRO-SD
1091 KCTS-DT
1093 CREATE KCTS
1095 KCTS-HD
1131 KCPQ-DT
1161 KONG-DT
1162 KONG-SD
1201 KTBW-D1
1202 KTBW-D2
1203 KTBW-D3
1204 KTBW-D4
1205 KTBW-D5

1331 ION
1332 Qubo (KWPX)
1333 IonLife
1334 Worship
1421 KWBF-DT


1422 KYPX (Intermitten)
1423 Tube( drop outs)
1424 Lick TV( drop outs)
1451 ShopTV ( pretty good, though useless!!)
1452 Azteca (drop outs)
1453 Asian TV (drop outs)
1454 Am One ( dropout)

Now, I am thinking, do I need Comcast!!?

I did not grounded my antenna yet, not sure it is required at 8' as my house is more than 20' high and few electric, and telephone pole at 25+ feet high beside my house. But I did ordered a coax Grounding block with Lightening/surge suppressor. Infact my previous dish which is mounted even higher was not grounded by that so called professional installer.

But probably I will ground the antenna too.

Anyways I hope this will be helpful to atleast someone. Let me know if you have any questions.

Chinna - that RS unit is the 15-2160 that has been recommended frequently on this forum. I have one myself as a backup/experimenter unit. In the summer of 2005 I visited a friend in Wenatchee who is a ham. He is into DXing on ham bands and I thought he would enjoy a little DX experiment in HD. We went up on a 2500 foot ridge southeast of Wenatchee and parked my SUV, loaded with inverters, monitors, HD receiver etc. We pointed the 2160 at Spokane and pulled in 2 HD stations quite easily. And that was 116 miles away! Great little antenna. Glad to see you found success with it.

Thanks Dan... I took back the amp. it was mounted per instructions at the antenna with the 3' long coax cable. Since it's chimney mounted, I don't have another place to move the antenna to without changing to a tripod mount. I might get excited about it again sometime this summer, and should actually get a signal meter of some type to get away from trying to gauge the signal strength by changing channels. The amp I had was the rat-shack 15-2507. You're higher than me be probably 50' in elevation. I might try taking the GPS out to get the actual diff just for grins.

Wow. I'm up the hill from you, and might just have to try that instead of my current POS. Thanks for the tip.

Wow. I'm up the hill from you, and might just have to try that instead of my current POS. Thanks for the tip.

TriplaneDave
I'm not living there, it's a customer's condo. He's much lower than you, and almost the same exact path. That's why I think you have a good shot at it, if you have nothing near you in the way.
Dan

Chinna, that's great news, I live up the hill from you. I've been using a RS 15-2156 160" Long Dual Boom, 57-Element Antenna. mounted on the roof. I can get extended periods of great reception on some channels but others (like Fox) have been getting very bad reception. I used to get pretty good reception on the big six networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, WB and UPN) but it's gotten much worse on Fox lately.

I think I'll try the 15-2160, since it appears that most of my current antennae is designed to pull in VHF which I'm not watching anyway. I was also looking at putting up a 8 bay channelmaster but I'm not sure where they sell those in this area. Does anybody else know where I can shop for one of these?

I had a question about those channels on 42. What are you seeing on the following

42-1 KWBF-DT
42-2 KYPX
42-3 Tube
42-4 Lick TV

As far as I can tell, KWDK digital 42 is using the PSIP generator data from the Little Rock Arkansas KWBF analog 42 and 42-2, 42-3 and 42-4 don't actually have any content.

I am not sure, why this thread doesn't contain a listing of all the available stations in the area. So maybe it's time to add one from time to time. These are all the stations that I'm aware of, am I missing any?

4.1 KOMO-HD
5.1 KING-HD
5.2 KING-SD (Weather plus)
7.1 KIRO-HD
7.2 KIRO-SD (Airport)
9.1 KCTS-SD
9.3 KCTS-SD (Create)
9.5 KCTS-HD
11.1 KSTW-HD
12.1 KVOS-SD (I don't get this one, how far south do people receive it?)
13.1 KCPQ-HD
16.1 KONG-HD
16.2 KONG-SD
20.1 KTBW-SD (D1)
20.2 KTBW-SD (D2)
20.3 KTBW-SD (D3)
20.4 KTBW-SD (D4)
20.5 KTBW-SD (D5)
22.1 KMYQ-HD
22.2 KMYQ-SD (The Tube)
24.1 KBCB-SD (I don't get this one, how far south do people receive it?)
28.1 KBTC-SD
28.2 KBTC-SD (Create)
28.3 KBTC-SD (ANBG)
28.4 KBTC-SD
33.1 KWPX-SD (ION)
33.2 KWPX-SD (Qubo)
33.3 KWPX-SD IonLife
33.4 KWPX-SD (Worship)
42.1 KWBF-SD
45.1 KHCV-SD (ShopTV)
45.2 KHCV-SD (Azteca)
45.3 KHCV-SD (Asian TV)
45.4 KHCV-SD (Am One)
55.1 KUNS

OK, I apologize now, but have done a search of "Port Orchard" in here, and it just keeps giving me hits on "port". I have also done some perusing of the thread, but at 181 pages, I just can't scan fast enough to find any information on PO. Therefore, I apologize if this is already in the thread:

I wanted to know if anyone else on the Kitsap Penninsula (yeah, here's hoping) was able to get any OTA, with what antenna, and how mounted?

I am desperate to not let go of my HR10-250 (wife loves it, doesn't think local HD is worth changing to non-Tivo *gasp*), and moved from Tucson where I just had everything OTA working.

Now, living over here, I can not get enough information about how/if I can get OTA here in Port Orchard (PO).

My antennaweb states:
red - vhf KCPQ 13 FOX TACOMA WA 275° 10.7 13
* red - uhf KCPQ-DT 13.1 FOX TACOMA WA 275° 10.7 18
red - vhf KCTS 9 PBS SEATTLE WA 39° 16.0 9
red - vhf KING 5 NBC SEATTLE WA 31° 15.1 5
* red - uhf KING-DT 5.1 NBC SEATTLE WA 31° 15.1 48
red - uhf KONG 16 IND EVERETT WA 31° 15.1 16
red - uhf KTBW 20 TBN TACOMA WA 276° 10.1 20
* blue - uhf KTBW-DT 14.1 TBN TACOMA WA 276° 10.1 14
blue - uhf KMYQ 22 MNT SEATTLE WA 39° 16.0 22
blue - vhf KOMO 4 ABC SEATTLE WA 31° 15.0 4
blue - uhf KWPX 33 ION BELLEVUE WA 70° 29.3 33
blue - uhf KWOG 51 IND BELLEVUE WA 70° 29.3 51
* blue - uhf KONG-DT 16.1 IND EVERETT WA 31° 15.1 31
blue - vhf KSTW 11 CW TACOMA WA 39° 16.0 11
* blue - uhf KCTS-DT 9.1 PBS SEATTLE WA 39° 16.0 41
blue - uhf KHCV 45 AZA SEATTLE WA 70° 29.3 45
violet - vhf K03FA 3 PBS ISSAQUAH, ETC. WA 75° 29.1 3
* violet - uhf KMYQ-DT 22.1 MNT SEATTLE WA 39° 16.0 25

Can someone give me a quick and dirty? I have them scheduled to set up the AT9/HR20 on the 25th, and REALLY want to keep the HR10-250 and use OTA if at all possible.

I greatly appreciate any help.

Sincerely,

Stranded in BFE (PO)
PixelFreak

OK, I apologize now, but have done a search of "Port Orchard" in here, and it just keeps giving me hits on "port". I have also done some perusing of the thread, but at 181 pages, I just can't scan fast enough to find any information on PO. Therefore, I apologize if this is already in the thread:

I wanted to know if anyone else on the Kitsap Penninsula (yeah, here's hoping) was able to get any OTA, with what antenna, and how mounted?

I am desperate to not let go of my HR10-250 (wife loves it, doesn't think local HD is worth changing to non-Tivo *gasp*), and moved from Tucson where I just had everything OTA working.

Now, living over here, I can not get enough information about how/if I can get OTA here in Port Orchard (PO).

My antennaweb states:
red - vhf KCPQ 13 FOX TACOMA WA 275° 10.7 13
* red - uhf KCPQ-DT 13.1 FOX TACOMA WA 275° 10.7 18
red - vhf KCTS 9 PBS SEATTLE WA 39° 16.0 9
red - vhf KING 5 NBC SEATTLE WA 31° 15.1 5
* red - uhf KING-DT 5.1 NBC SEATTLE WA 31° 15.1 48
red - uhf KONG 16 IND EVERETT WA 31° 15.1 16
red - uhf KTBW 20 TBN TACOMA WA 276° 10.1 20
* blue - uhf KTBW-DT 14.1 TBN TACOMA WA 276° 10.1 14
blue - uhf KMYQ 22 MNT SEATTLE WA 39° 16.0 22
blue - vhf KOMO 4 ABC SEATTLE WA 31° 15.0 4
blue - uhf KWPX 33 ION BELLEVUE WA 70° 29.3 33
blue - uhf KWOG 51 IND BELLEVUE WA 70° 29.3 51
* blue - uhf KONG-DT 16.1 IND EVERETT WA 31° 15.1 31
blue - vhf KSTW 11 CW TACOMA WA 39° 16.0 11
* blue - uhf KCTS-DT 9.1 PBS SEATTLE WA 39° 16.0 41
blue - uhf KHCV 45 AZA SEATTLE WA 70° 29.3 45
violet - vhf K03FA 3 PBS ISSAQUAH, ETC. WA 75° 29.1 3
* violet - uhf KMYQ-DT 22.1 MNT SEATTLE WA 39° 16.0 25

Can someone give me a quick and dirty? I have them scheduled to set up the AT9/HR20 on the 25th, and REALLY want to keep the HR10-250 and use OTA if at all possible.

I greatly appreciate any help.

Sincerely,

Stranded in BFE (PO)
PixelFreak


I live in Port Orchard, near the new high school. I can pick up 4,5,7,9,11,13,16, and 22 without too much trouble. On windy days, the channels break up. I am using the antenna that came with my ATI HDTV Wonder card.

I live in Port Orchard, near the new high school. I can pick up 4,5,7,9,11,13,16, and 22 without too much trouble. On windy days, the channels break up. I am using the antenna that came with my ATI HDTV Wonder card.
Holy buckets - no joke? Is that an internal antenna? I have a Terk inside antenna (HDTVi or something?) and don't have an external. This is good news indeed.

Just realizing, however, that you might be including all the non hi-def channels in there? I don't see antennaweb including ANY information about KOMO hi-def (4.1) anywhere...am I hosed for ABC?

Let me know anything specific you did?

TIA,
Pixel

Update: I guessed and put the antenna up and pointed what I thought would be about 31 degrees and get a few stations (NBC) - but not much else comes in. Am I going to need to get some type of an omnidirectional antenna to get all the stations? My main concern is the Big 4 (NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX) but anything else is gravy and I am not afraid to work for it, just not sure the best approach...

Holy buckets - no joke? Is that an internal antenna? I have a Terk inside antenna (HDTVi or something?) and don't have an external. This is good news indeed.

Just realizing, however, that you might be including all the non hi-def channels in there? I don't see antennaweb including ANY information about KOMO hi-def (4.1) anywhere...am I hosed for ABC?

Let me know anything specific you did?

TIA,
Pixel

Update: I guessed and put the antenna up and pointed what I thought would be about 31 degrees and get a few stations (NBC) - but not much else comes in. Am I going to need to get some type of an omnidirectional antenna to get all the stations? My main concern is the Big 4 (NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX) but anything else is gravy and I am not afraid to work for it, just not sure the best approach...

Pixel
Send some cross streets near you so I can look you up.
Dan

Pixel
Send some cross streets near you so I can look you up.
Dan
Just off Long Lake on Clover Valley Rd SE.

Nearest cross street, just south of:

Baker and Clover Valley Rd SE.

Thanks,
Pixel

Pixel-

Welcome to the area. I moved here from Tucson myself in 2000. I had lousy OTA reception there (I was too close to the base of the Catalina mountains).

Antennaweb won't display a station which its logic thinks you will not be able to receive. The estimate is a bit pessimistic now (it previously was overly optimistic).

NBC, CBS and ABC are all transmitting from Queen Anne Hill in Seattle, Fox is from Gold Mtn west of Bremerton and PBS, CW and MYN are on Capital Hill in Seattle.

KOMO's antenna for the digital channel is mounted on the side of their tower which results in a lower signal to the west (it's about 10 dB down in my direction and probably similar in Port Orchard). KOMO-HD isn't on Directv yet, so changing from the HR10 wouldn't help with that one (KING, KIRO and KCPQ are carried on satellite). I can receive KOMO-HD sometimes, but it is not reliable. Hopefully Directv will add KOMO soon, since an agreement was reached a couple of months ago. FWIW, I have the HR20 and am quite happy with it (I previously had a HDVR2 Tivo unit).

Bob

Thank you, that is outstanding information.

I was in the SE side of Tucson, near Vail (which has EXPLODED in size) and got excellent reception due to the terrain (flat as a board) and far enough away from the base of the mountains. The only one I didn't receive was the WB equivalent because it was out of Sierra Vista...

I may have them hook up the HR20 because this is proving to be quite tricky and unreliable due to weather, trees, and other obstacles (installation being one!).

Pixel

Small world Pixel & rdn. My mother, brother and his wife live near Sierra Vista. He has been on DirecTV for years because OTA and cable were out of the question where they live (part way up the mountain ridge west of town). My son and I are planning a visit in Sept.

Ever been to Kartchner Caverns?

I just plug in the antenna, aim it, and I get the channels. I live in the sunny slope area at 500ft. I live near Our PL SW (used to be Feigley Rd SW) and Old Clifton RD. I am talking about the digital channels. Right now the "signal levels" are:

4 6/6
5 6/6
7 5/6
9 6/6
11 6/6
13 5/6
16 5/6
22 3/6
24 0/6
28 2/6
33 4/6
42 4/6
45 0/6
51 5/6

It must be a good night.

I can only watch 4,5,7,9,11,13,16,22,33, and 51. The other channels don't come in.

DanKurts, got a quick one for ya. Got a DB2 in an basement apartment and want to upgrade (have a CM preamp on it now.) Which would you suggest, the 4221 or a DB4? Thanks.

(cable works just fine, but the color seems to be better with OTA)

Small world Pixel & rdn. My mother, brother and his wife live near Sierra Vista. He has been on DirecTV for years because OTA and cable were out of the question where they live (part way up the mountain ridge west of town). My son and I are planning a visit in Sept.

Ever been to Kartchner Caverns?

No, but I went to Colossal Cave a few times. I had Jones Intercable when I lived there (I think they were bought by someone else since then).

Most people go from here to there after they retire, but my wife was tired of the summer heat. I sold my house to a couple of snowbirds from Magnolia.

Thank you, that is outstanding information.

I was in the SE side of Tucson, near Vail (which has EXPLODED in size) and got excellent reception due to the terrain (flat as a board) and far enough away from the base of the mountains. The only one I didn't receive was the WB equivalent because it was out of Sierra Vista...

I may have them hook up the HR20 because this is proving to be quite tricky and unreliable due to weather, trees, and other obstacles (installation being one!).

Pixel

You may as well, since they will do it for free, including the dish, cables and installation.

If you get away from the foothills, OTA probably works pretty well in the Tucson area (Mt. Bigelow is ~8000 feet).

I am not sure, why this thread doesn't contain a listing of all the available stations in the area. So maybe it's time to add one from time to time.


Actually, at least one other member does that here; just use the search function or google hdtv listings.

Another thing is that at least lately, Comcast has been fiddling with the lineup every few days.

Something else to consider is that reception is dependant on what you use to tune your tv with (antenna, box, built in tuner). For instance, for me right now FOX HD is on channel 81. I'm currently using my tvs' built in QAM tuner.

I do agree a post should be stickied and updated as needed though.

Just off Long Lake on Clover Valley Rd SE.

Nearest cross street, just south of:

Baker and Clover Valley Rd SE.

Thanks,
Pixel

Pixel
You got a great location. Signal shoots right through a valley to the NE. Ch's 4-5-7-16 should be fine, ch's 9-11-22 are more to the East, and over the hill, but you could still have a good shot at it. Trees might give you some problems there. Ch13 of course is in your backyard.
Outdoor antenna is what you should use, but it doesn't need to be a big one. The Rat Shack 15-2160 might just work for all channels. Mount the antenna where it can see both NE and NW. Ch13's so strong there, it might just come in on the side of the antenna. Aim for 4-5-7 first. If they come in okay, but you can't get ch13, a second 15-2160 aimed that way, and coupled together with a ch18 (ch13's real frequency) Jointenna should do it.
Call if you have questions.
Dan
206-794-3993

DanKurts, got a quick one for ya. Got a DB2 in an basement apartment and want to upgrade (have a CM preamp on it now.) Which would you suggest, the 4221 or a DB4? Thanks.

(cable works just fine, but the color seems to be better with OTA)

bigpoppa206
Picture does look better on antenna, mainly because it's not as compressed, more bandwidth. Satellite does the same lower bit rate.
The few times I've compared those antenna's side X side, the 4221 is usually a little better. Be sure to try it without the preamp, first, just to see what it does. It may be a little more touchy than the DB2, so move it around for the best spot. BE CAREFUL handling it or if kids might get near it. The screen on the back has very sharp edges. You can wrap the screen edges with a couple layers of duct tape if needed. Looks wierd, works fine. If you can get it outside, even on a post setting on a balcony, it can really help, assuming it has a southern view.
Going to do that promised scan, now, on cable.

Well, that was interesting. 5-2, the weather channel was 83-3, now 115-1. 86-1 is KONG HD, but the scan came up wierd on KING HD. If I enter 85-2 it goes nowhere, but if I enter 85, the banner says channel 0 , that's zero ! Picture looks great. if I channel down, it goes through the other channels on my list, but still says 0 !. Oddly, ch9 HD pops up as 9-5 on the banner, not 82-5 as before. Music channels are gone 119-10 through 119-54. The 115-2 and up didn't have anything. Saw some other stuff, but didn't have time to figure out what it was.
Oh, well. At least the main local HD's are there.
Picture quality sure looks good, compared to my old E-86 on antenna. It has noisy video outputs. Samsung made my old 8 year old Panasonic 50" look almost like new !!
Dan

Actually, at least one other member does that here; just use the search function or google hdtv listings.

Another thing is that at least lately, Comcast has been fiddling with the lineup every few days.

Something else to consider is that reception is dependant on what you use to tune your tv with (antenna, box, built in tuner). For instance, for me right now FOX HD is on channel 81. I'm currently using my tvs' built in QAM tuner.

I do agree a post should be stickied and updated as needed though.
This thread is about OTA. There's another thread about Comcast.

N/M, admins cleaned it up!

Chinna, that's great news, I live up the hill from you. I've been using a RS 15-2156 160" Long Dual Boom, 57-Element Antenna. mounted on the roof. I can get extended periods of great reception on some channels but others (like Fox) have been getting very bad reception. I used to get pretty good reception on the big six networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, WB and UPN) but it's gotten much worse on Fox lately.

I think I'll try the 15-2160, since it appears that most of my current antennae is designed to pull in VHF which I'm not watching anyway. I was also looking at putting up a 8 bay channelmaster but I'm not sure where they sell those in this area. Does anybody else know where I can shop for one of these?

I had a question about those channels on 42. What are you seeing on the following

42-1 KWBF-DT
42-2 KYPX
42-3 Tube
42-4 Lick TV

As far as I can tell, KWDK digital 42 is using the PSIP generator data from the Little Rock Arkansas KWBF analog 42 and 42-2, 42-3 and 42-4 don't actually have any content.

Hmm, I am surprized to hear you are not getting all the channels I am getting with even bigger antenna. If you want to try U-75R radioshack antenna, Woodenville store has stock, that's where I bought mine.

KWBF-DT is a typical church bases programs, and
KYPX I do not remember, but I could not Tune today because of cloudy weather( these were weak even on better days)
Tube is same as Comcast digital channel , I think 116 or 119.
Lick TV I could not Tune today.

Also, somehow KING sigal suddenly dropped since yesterday. Used to get 85-90% signal strength, dont know what happend.

Anyways, best of luck. Let me know If there is anything I could do.

42-2, -3 and -4 are dead channels as mentioned before. There is a music channel The Tube on 22-2 for about a year. Even Comcast discovered this some time ago...

Anyone know what happend to KING-HD suddenly in the Redmond Area.
KING-HD/SD used to be around 85-90% signal strength, now I do not have any signal at all.

Remaining channel strength did not change much, so I guess my antenna and cabling is still fine I guess.

Any pointers?
Thanks


EDIT: It looks like KING-DT signal is very finicky, today afternoon, I was able to get full 90% signal for sometime, but after that it is again intermitten. I am not sure if an amplifier helps in this situation.

I live on the corner of Ridgewood Dr and Panaview Blvd in Everett and am having a nightmare pulling in anything OTA except KSTW which comes in marginally. I only have a cheap outdoor amplified RS antenna (15-2186) that I'm doing testing with. I'm looking for a recommendation on an outdoor antenna to put on my roof to pull in 4, 5, and 7. The most important being 4. This is what antennaweb tells me:


* blue - uhf KWDK-DT 42.1 DAY TACOMA WA 142° 31.1 42
* blue - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 ION BELLEVUE WA 142° 31.1 32
* blue - uhf KIRO-DT 7.1 CBS SEATTLE WA 182° 21.6 39
* blue - uhf KING-DT 5.1 NBC SEATTLE WA 181° 21.6 48
* blue - uhf KOMO-DT 4.1 ABC SEATTLE WA 182° 21.6 38
* violet - uhf KMYQ-DT 22.1 MNT SEATTLE WA 175° 22.1 25
* violet - uhf KCTS-DT 9.1 PBS SEATTLE WA 175° 22.1 41
* violet - uhf KWOG-DT 51.1 IND BELLEVUE WA 142° 31.1 50


The most significant problem to me seems to be the fact that there are a few very tall trees in the general direction of the towers. There is 1 point on my roof where the treeline is clear in that direction, but I can't seem to pull anything in when putting the antenna in that location. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I live on the corner of Ridgewood Dr and Panaview Blvd in Everett and am having a nightmare pulling in anything OTA except KSTW which comes in marginally. I only have a cheap outdoor amplified RS antenna (15-2186) that I'm doing testing with. I'm looking for a recommendation on an outdoor antenna to put on my roof to pull in 4, 5, and 7. The most important being 4.

The most significant problem to me seems to be the fact that there are a few very tall trees in the general direction of the towers. There is 1 point on my roof where the treeline is clear in that direction, but I can't seem to pull anything in when putting the antenna in that location. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Not sure if this helps or not, but here's my analysis of your situation. Please use or disregard as you see fit. The attached file is a radar plot of your local digital channels. Longer bars represent stronger signals. The table to the right of the plot gives details about each transmitter.



My interpretation of the data:

- The surrounding terrain blockage is probably a bigger problem than the trees. If you look at the table under "Path", you will see that the majority of channels are reaching you via "1Edge" or "2Edge" (single and double edge diffraction) rather than "LOS" (line of sight). The neighboring hills in your area are higher than you, so your signal strength will suffer as a result. The signals should still be receivable, but you'll need to get the antenna as high as possible and you should switch to a better antenna.

- There are three groups of transmitters at azimuths of approximately 160, 195, and 227 degrees. Since most high gain antennas are directional, you'll probably be able to get two of these groups simultaneously, but not all three at the same time. You might consider installing a motorized rotator if you want to be able to turn the antenna toward each group as you need them. Combining multiple antennas is also possible if you want to go that route. BTW, the listed azimuths are relative to true north (like on a map). The difference between true-north and compass-north can be computed at this (http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/Declination.jsp) web site.



Without knowing all the specifics of your setup, requirements, and constraints, here's my generic recommended setup:

- Use a 10 foot mast on the roof (tripod mount or chimney mount)
- Use a Channel Master 4221 4-bay antenna (good medium range antenna)
- Add either a Channel Master 7775 or Winegard AP-4700 pre-amp just below the antenna
- (optional) Add an antenna rotator.
- Use RG-6 quad-shield coax from there into the house. Be sure to seal all exposed connections to make sure water never gets into the connectors or coax.

This setup should be able to get most of the channels in the table with an "Rx_dBm" value of -100 or higher, give or take a little (remember, you may need to aim the antenna to get the different channel clusters). Note that this setup only targets UHF channels, so if you are interested in any VHF coverage, you'll need a different antenna and pre-amp.



Good luck!

Best regards,
Andy

I live on the corner of Ridgewood Dr and Panaview Blvd in Everett and am having a nightmare pulling in anything OTA except KSTW which comes in marginally. I only have a cheap outdoor amplified RS antenna (15-2186) that I'm doing testing with. I'm looking for a recommendation on an outdoor antenna to put on my roof to pull in 4, 5, and 7. The most important being 4. This is what antennaweb tells me:



The most significant problem to me seems to be the fact that there are a few very tall trees in the general direction of the towers. There is 1 point on my roof where the treeline is clear in that direction, but I can't seem to pull anything in when putting the antenna in that location. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

phearz
You need something with more beef.
You are behind the hills. It's about a mile plus before you clear them, and they're about 150ft higher than you. Add in a lot of trees in that direction and it really sucks up the signal. A 4221 is a good start, and you will need the 7775 preamp. How well it will do is hard to answer. Sometimes a yagi style antenna works better in those situations. Height will help, but it's going to be most sensitive to location. You're trying to thread your way through those trees. The 4221 is not real fussy about where you point it, as long as it's in the general direction. If you decide on a yagi instead, then direction will be very important. My fav is the 4248. Also, this is where patience will help. You may find some channels are fine in one spot, and other channels may be better in a different one, so finding that sweet spot may take some time. Don't swing the antenna around quickly, but give the tuner a 5 or 10 seconds to try and lock on before giving up on a spot. Six inches in any direction can make or break.
Keep us updated.
Dan

Finally got Komo to come in.
I've given up on Kcpq & Ktbw too many hills.
For Kbtc i get it if i move the antenna going to fix that though.

Thanks for the help DanKurts

Mike

Anyone know what happend to KING-HD suddenly in the Redmond Area.
KING-HD/SD used to be around 85-90% signal strength, now I do not have any signal at all.

Remaining channel strength did not change much, so I guess my antenna and cabling is still fine I guess.

Any pointers?
Thanks

EDIT: It looks like KING-DT signal is very finicky, today afternoon, I was able to get full 90% signal for sometime, but after that it is again intermitten. I am not sure if an amplifier helps in this situation.
I'm having the same issue as you. King was totally reliable until about a week ago and since then it's been flaky. KOMO, KIRO and KXPQ are all at exactly the same signal level they've always been at for me.

Anyone else experiencing this? I hate to go futz with things if it's an issue with KING in general.

Not sure if this is related but I had a similar problem with KING last April - post #4489 of this thread. I slowly lost the signal as the leaves from the maple and cottonwood trees grew in. Since this channel is high in the UHF band it is more sensitive to environmental changes. I haven't noticed any problems with KING lately, I had it on for several hours yesterday (Sunday).

I am in a deep woods area SE of Seattle and and was using the Channel Master 4228 with the 7775 pre-amp about 75 feet up on a cedar tree. I have since switched to the Antennas Direct 42XG and it has worked like a champ, no breakups or anything and better overall signal qulaity on all channels. I did move it about 10 feet higher too. Only extreme wind gusts can cause the signal to drop for a couple seconds.

I think the squirrels were chewing on the rubber boot thing by the pre-amp. I also noticed some little knaw like scape marks in the coax in some places. Hopefully this won't cause any big problems. I'd like to try some RG-11 coax someday to see if that helps the 300 foot cable run.

I'm having the same issue as you. King was totally reliable until about a week ago and since then it's been flaky. KOMO, KIRO and KXPQ are all at exactly the same signal level they've always been at for me.

Anyone else experiencing this? I hate to go futz with things if it's an issue with KING in general.

jcricket
I'm seeing the same levels on KING. By that I mean real signal levels. With my setup it happens to be +7db. What you're seeing is the level of signal to noise and expressed as a percentage or number of bars (zero to six or more, more being better). To a degree it will show when the signal is better, but not necessarily stronger. You could be on the ragged edge of reception and still get 90%. One hair less of actual level and you get 0%. And/Or you could STILL be getting the same level on KING, but something has changed enough to chop up the signal. If you saw it on an analyzer scope, it would normally look like ~~~~, or a perfect one, ---------, but if it gets to look like ---^v^--- the tuner won't lock on. If it moves around and varies between all of these, it can give varying results. If only a little change, you may never see it, yet the tuner is working hard to keep it locked. A little more of all these and it will start to pixelate or sound will stutter or both. If the amount of change happens to be at the minimum threshold for the tuner to be able to read the signal at all, it will simply drop it and the screen will just go blank or freeze for a minute or more.
So what could it be? Connection on the antenna where the balun is screwed on gets corroded and it drops level just enough to go below that threshold. Or water gets into the balun and starts to rust it. Or a tree a 1/4 mile away moves just enough, or your tuner is getting a little weak, or, or, or.....
It doesn't take much when you were only barely getting it to begin with. Thing is you would never know it by the quality of picture or "strength" numbers.

Double check all connections carefully. You may even have to move the antenna because something in the distance is now affecting it. If the balun wasn't sealed, replace it.
Let us know what you find.
Dan

Hi all, I'm trying to get my office ready to watch some NCAA games later this week. Brought my Samsung HDTV tuner to my downtown office. Plugged into TV...and...nothing... I'm in a 6th floor of a downtown highriser. Is it going to be impossible for me to pickup any HDTV stations due to the surrounding buildings, even if I'm only a mile away from KIRO station?

--
Sang

Double check all connections carefully. You may even have to move the antenna because something in the distance is now affecting it. If the balun wasn't sealed, replace it.
Let us know what you find.
Dan

Thanks for suggestions. I just bought a Voom HD Receiver Motorola DSR-550 off ebay and set it up yesterday. I used a splitter (supposed to be 3.7db drop on each output) and connected in parallel to my HTPC HVR-1600 HDTV Tuner.
Suprising this is Voom get the KING without any problems( even after splitting signal, and no amplifier anywhere), where as HVR-1600 is not picking any signal at all( or may not be locking). It seems it is not a signal strength issue. May be new tuners have problem with KING signal!!?

I am surprised I do not need any amplifier even after using splitter, my HVR-1600 tuner show same strength as before and I did not lost any channels!.. :)

Motorola DSR-550 has a weird problem with KCTS-HD channel only. It hangs if I tune that channel only, remaining all channels works fine. Even the channel which are little weak, it gives warning saying signal weak and tries to lock, but no hang. But on KCTS-HD channel it hangs. Other KCTS channels works fine. I do not know what is the reason.

Hi all, I'm trying to get my office ready to watch some NCAA games later this week. Brought my Samsung HDTV tuner to my downtown office. Plugged into TV...and...nothing... I'm in a 6th floor of a downtown highriser. Is it going to be impossible for me to pickup any HDTV stations due to the surrounding buildings, even if I'm only a mile away from KIRO station?

--
Sang

Try a slingbox instead with your pc

Thanks for suggestions. I just bought a Voom HD Receiver Motorola DSR-550 off ebay and set it up yesterday. I used a splitter (supposed to be 3.7db drop on each output) and connected in parallel to my HTPC HVR-1600 HDTV Tuner.
Suprising this is Voom get the KING without any problems( even after splitting signal, and no amplifier anywhere), where as HVR-1600 is not picking any signal at all( or may not be locking). It seems it is not a signal strength issue. May be new tuners have problem with KING signal!!?

I am surprised I do not need any amplifier even after using splitter, my HVR-1600 tuner show same strength as before and I did not lost any channels!.. :)

Motorola DSR-550 has a weird problem with KCTS-HD channel only. It hangs if I tune that channel only, remaining all channels works fine. Even the channel which are little weak, it gives warning saying signal weak and tries to lock, but no hang. But on KCTS-HD channel it hangs. Other KCTS channels works fine. I do not know what is the reason.


chinna_n
Read my post above to jcricket. It explains why.
Dan

chinna_n
Read my post above to jcricket. It explains why.
Dan

Hi Dankurts,
I read that completely before posting my above response. Why I find it weird is Motorola DSR-550 is able to tune that channel without any problem with the same signal( just used splitter and used similar cable), where as my HVR-1600 has problem with KING.

Has anyone noticed a lower signal strength on KOMO and KONG recently? KOMO has always been difficult for me, but KONG was fairly good. Now both read zero on my Directv HR20 receiver and I get nothing on my EyeTV500 either.

Hi Dankurts,
I read that completely before posting my above response. Why I find it weird is Motorola DSR-550 is able to tune that channel without any problem with the same signal( just used splitter and used similar cable), where as my HVR-1600 has problem with KING.

chinna_n
You're assuming all receivers work the same, and have no problems. If you can imagine a problem with electronics, it is usually possible. May not happen very often, but can. It could only be one channel, or several, but obviously the HVR-1600 has a personal problem. It's not wierd, just a tuner acting up. And then you can get those that "heal" themselves and start working fine again. They don't heal. If it happened once, it will again. May take years or minutes, but it will return.
Welcome to the wonderful world of electronics!
Dan

Has anyone noticed a lower signal strength on KOMO and KONG recently? KOMO has always been difficult for me, but KONG was fairly good. Now both read zero on my Directv HR20 receiver and I get nothing on my EyeTV500 either.

rdn
Seeing same levels on those channels here, within about .2 db of normal. Have you tried a cold boot and rescan? Have customers that get wierdness like that from time to time.
Dan

OK, I am concerned - I see that living in Port Orchard, and cross referencing Antennaweb.org, I am less than 20 miles (As the crow flies) from the towers.

It doesn't show KOMO or KIRO - but someone said earlier that because the website gives a conservative estimate, I should still be able to pull those in.

I looked at this antenna:
http://secure.antennasdirect.com/cgi-bin/UCEditor?MERCHANTID=ANTD&ADD=4DXB

It states that it is omni-directional, and should have a range of 55 miles.

Any experience with this model? What about a pre-amp?
I would like to mount it on an eave of the house (second story) on a small mast, but nothing that requires quide wires. Can I get this done for less than $150 and a bunch of holes in my house?

(I already have diplexers at the switch so it can be carried into the front room without running a third cable - HR10 with 2 inputs already).

Problem is, I don't want to get too invested in this if it is just easier to get the HR20 and wait for DTV to put KOMO on the feeds....I just wanted to hold onto the Tivo for the wife's sanity (I love it too), but want my locals to be in HD! Argh.

So, do I just let them install the HR20 to get the local four (that's all I really need due to sports, etc.) and forego the hassle?

Thanks for letting me ask this question again, but in a slightly different way...

PixelFreak

(Just west of Long Lake in Port Orchard - off Clover Valley Rd SE - which I think is a kind of valley area...)

The Antennas Direct DB4 is NOT omnidirectional. It is a good antenna, very similar to the Channel Master 4221 or Winegard PR-4400.

You cannot diplex like that with the HR20, since it uses the UHF frequency range for satellite signals (not yet, but it will for the satellites to be launched later this year). It would be better to add another cable. The SWM (single wire multiswitch) will allow a single cable to be used with splitters and diplexers, but it has just entered beta test and is not widely available yet (luckily I am one of the testers and it works great).

After using the HR20 for a few months, I am completely weaned off my HDVR2 (Tivo). I don't have any inside information, but expect that KOMO will be carried by Directv within the next few months. I'd still recommend adding a OTA antenna (we watch a lot of HD on KCTS). I mounted my PR-4400 on the mast that my old satellite dish used which was left standing when the new one for HD was installed. I have also used 5 and 10 foot masts from Radio Shack with chimney straps (no guys required).

Bob

The Antennas Direct DB4 is NOT omnidirectional. It is a good antenna, very similar to the Channel Master 4221 or Winegard PR-4400.
Bob
ARGH! I forgot about diplexing with the HR20...thanks for the reminder.
What is the difference between "multidirectional" and "omnidirectional" (yes, I know technically that would mean one has 'many' directions, and the other is 'all' directions), but I have never seen "multi" used before - only uni- and omni-.

Also, you compare the antenna with a channelmaster or the other one, but don't say what you would recommend for my situation (specs from antennaweb.org on page 181). I have heard great things about the channelmaster with a pre-amp - is that my best bet?

It looks like I will let them install the HR20 (free) and give it a shot. If it doesn't feel like I want it to, I put the HR10 back up and fight with the antenna.

Thanks,
Pixel

Also, you compare the antenna with a channelmaster or the other one, but don't say what you would recommend for my situation (specs from antennaweb.org on page 181). I have heard great things about the channelmaster with a pre-amp - is that my best bet?

It looks like I will let them install the HR20 (free) and give it a shot. If it doesn't feel like I want it to, I put the HR10 back up and fight with the antenna.
I thought I'd throw this out there since I'm not sure how far along you've gotten in your OTA endeavors...

See the attached radar plot for the OTA analysis for your area. Longer bars represent stronger signals. Details about individual transmitters is listed in the table to the right.

This was generated using an arbitrarily picked point in Port Orchard. If you want a more accurate estimate, you'll need to provide a more precise location.

My interpretation:

- It looks like all the channels to the east are being blocked by some hills. Note that all those channels are single or double edge diffracted ("1Edge" or "2Edge" under "Path" column) as opposed to line-of-sight. This terrain blockage causes most of the signals to be a bit weak.

- If you are willing to install a rooftop antenna like the CM 4228 with a CM 7775 pre-amp, you'd probably be able to receive all the channels on the list down to about -110 dBm (under "Rx_dBm"), give or take a little.



Good luck!



Best regards,
Andy

Andy - could you post the URL for getting those plots?

bigpoppa206
Picture does look better on antenna, mainly because it's not as compressed, more bandwidth. Satellite does the same lower bit rate.
The few times I've compared those antenna's side X side, the 4221 is usually a little better. Be sure to try it without the preamp, first, just to see what it does. It may be a little more touchy than the DB2, so move it around for the best spot. BE CAREFUL handling it or if kids might get near it. The screen on the back has very sharp edges. You can wrap the screen edges with a couple layers of duct tape if needed. Looks wierd, works fine. If you can get it outside, even on a post setting on a balcony, it can really help, assuming it has a southern view.

UPDATE! Got the 4221 and so far it seems very very good considering I now have roughly 3 times the antenna compared to the DB2. For those who have not followed my saga, I'm in a basement apartment (actually below a concrete underground parking garage) trying to get a decent OTA signal using a Samsung DTB-H260F set top box; no patio so I am aiming this thing out of a window. PS, the antenna works best for me with a preamp. Only getting a slightly stronger signal but it definitely seems to be a more consistent signal with fewer dropouts, so I'm happy. Usually get KING, KIRO, KCTS and KONG pretty strong, KOMO was iffy. KOMO now seems quite decent.

UPDATE! Got the 4221 and so far it seems very very good considering I now have roughly 3 times the antenna compared to the DB2. For those who have not followed my saga, I'm in a basement apartment (actually below a concrete underground parking garage) trying to get a decent OTA signal using a Samsung DTB-H260F set top box; no patio so I am aiming this thing out of a window. PS, the antenna works best for me with a preamp. Only getting a slightly stronger signal but it definitely seems to be a more consistent signal with fewer dropouts, so I'm happy. Usually get KING, KIRO, KCTS and KONG pretty strong, KOMO was iffy. KOMO now seems quite decent.


bigpoppa206
Well done.
Now what will you do for a hobby?!?!
Dan

bigpoppa206
Well done.
Now what will you do for a hobby?!?!
Dan
One word: HTPC! Now that I'm enjoying the hi-def, a simple VCR just doesn't cut it anymore. Playing with a FusionHDTV card now on an old Dell.

One word: HTPC! Now that I'm enjoying the hi-def, a simple VCR just doesn't cut it anymore. Playing with a FusionHDTV card now on an old Dell.

Try the trial version of SageTV. It's a lot better than the Fusion software, assuming your computer can handle it's video playback (Fusion has better codecs for low end computers, but their software otherwise has sucked).

Andy - could you post the URL for getting those plots?
These plots were generated by software I had written. I am very interested in turning these into web accessible tools, but haven't quite gotten around to doing it yet. Any good CGI programmers out there willing to help might speed up that process.

Best regards,
Andy

These plots were generated by software I had written. I am very interested in turning these into web accessible tools, but haven't quite gotten around to doing it yet. Any good CGI programmers out there willing to help might speed up that process.

Best regards,
Andy

I'm impressed. I've been using TopoUSA by DeLorme for several years and get similar results in a graphical form. If you're not familiar with it, the topo map lets you draw a line between 2 points and then get a profile of the terrain along that line. Pretty easy to see where the hills interfere. But as we all know, that is only half the battle. LOS does not guarantee anything. Reflections and trees can have a major impact on what otherwise looks like a good location.

Good luck with your project. Sorry my programming skills are pretty mediocre.
Where do you get your data?

Larry

One word: HTPC! Now that I'm enjoying the hi-def, a simple VCR just doesn't cut it anymore. Playing with a FusionHDTV card now on an old Dell.

bigpoppa206
Great. That will definitely keep you occupied. I've seen a lot of high end setups, lots of variables out there to play with. They run the gamut from cheesey to blow you away. Saw one hooked up to a $75k Vidicron, 16ft Stewart screen, and racks of equipment. He did a demo of regular DVD and then through his toys, as well as off air HD with/without processing, WOW!
I would love to get into it, if they would invent a 30 hour day!
Keep me informed on your results.
Dan

OK, have decided that I am going to try this antenna (CM 4221):
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SCM4221A

I wonder if there are any brick and mortar stores on the penninsula that carry this antenna. I have heard good things about this store and the antenna - but would rather buy it locally if possible. The shipping for the antenna is more than 50% of the cost...

Also, would I stand a chance attic mounting this thing since I won't be in this home mroe than six months and don't really want to chimney strap it up there if I don't have to (cable run would be LENGTHY from the chimney - whereas I already have a run from near the attic...)

TIA,
Rob

DirkPitt
You're in a pretty good spot. No major hills, but trees might be a small factor.
I assume you're looking for HD reception, not analog. A good tuner to pick up would be the Samsung H260F, available at Circuit city or BestBuy
http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalSetTopBox/HDTVTuners/DTB_H260FXAA.asp
Only $179, and far better than the stock Sony tuner that TV came with.
A 4221 antenna would be a good start. It will need to be outside and facing south.
Dan


Hey Dan,

I got the 4221 antenna, and it works ok. Do you know of a good antenna that can get 180 degrees, or maybe less, so I can pick up the regular channels 4,5, 7 etc. and ALSO channels 9.1, 9.3, 9.5 etc? I have the 4221 set directly south which I think is pointing between the channel 9 tower and the 4/5/7 tower, but the 9s I can only get 1 signal bar. I'm wondering though if i can get an antenna that is less directional to pick up all the stations in the general southward direction.

thanks again! btw my address is 913 18th st mukilteo 98275

Hey Dan,

I got the 4221 antenna, and it works ok. Do you know of a good antenna that can get 180 degrees, or maybe less, so I can pick up the regular channels 4,5, 7 etc. and ALSO channels 9.1, 9.3, 9.5 etc? I have the 4221 set directly south which I think is pointing between the channel 9 tower and the 4/5/7 tower, but the 9s I can only get 1 signal bar. I'm wondering though if i can get an antenna that is less directional to pick up all the stations in the general southward direction.

thanks again! btw my address is 913 18th st mukilteo 98275

Dirk
The 4221 is NOT directional. It will pick up over as much as 160 degrees. If you're not getting 9, then it's a matter of location. Move the antenna to another location. Six inches in ANY direction can make or break. If you're getting 11 and 22, it verifies that something minor is in the way. Could be a building or trees a ways off, but bottom line is the antenna just needs to be moved a little. Don't forget to try LOWER as well as higher. You would be amazed at how many times that works out.
Be sure your wires on the balun are not twisted, either. Should look something like this.

Dan

OK, have decided that I am going to try this antenna (CM 4221):
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SCM4221A

I wonder if there are any brick and mortar stores on the penninsula that carry this antenna. I have heard good things about this store and the antenna - but would rather buy it locally if possible. The shipping for the antenna is more than 50% of the cost...

Also, would I stand a chance attic mounting this thing since I won't be in this home mroe than six months and don't really want to chimney strap it up there if I don't have to (cable run would be LENGTHY from the chimney - whereas I already have a run from near the attic...)

TIA,
Rob

I don't know of any place on this side of the sound who might have it, but you might try Fry's Electronics in Renton. I bought my antenna (the similar Winegard PR-4400) from http://www.starkelectronic.com/allant.htm.

Bob

Hey gang...need Help.

I'm moving from the hills in Duvall, where I received great reception with my 4228, to Marysville (NE 51 St @ 114th Dr NE 98271).

Do you think I have a chance of getting any ota hd at house top level using the 4228?
Thanks again...

Hey gang...need Help.

I'm moving from the hills in Duvall, where I received great reception with my 4228, to Marysville (NE 51 St @ 114th Dr NE 98271).

Do you think I have a chance of getting any ota hd at house top level using the 4228?
Thanks again...

NHLFAN
Well, there's always a chance...... The hill around Paine Field appears to be in the way. How much it will block the signal is tough to judge. Since you have the toys, give it a shot. You will need a 7775 preamp or similar, though.
Dan

I'm moving from the hills in Duvall, where I received great reception with my 4228, to Marysville (NE 51 St @ 114th Dr NE 98271).

Do you think I have a chance of getting any ota hd at house top level using the 4228?
See the attached radar plot for an analysis of the local transmitters. Longer bars represent stronger signals. Details about each transmitter are listed in the table to the right.



My interpretation:

- Yes, some channels from the south are being obstructed by the terrain. If you look under "Path", you'll see that a lot of channels have single or double edge diffraction ("1Edge" or "2Edge") as opposed to line-of-sight paths. However, since this obstruction is far away, the diffraction angle is very shallow and a good amount of signal energy should still be able to reach you. With a CM 4228, I would expect you to be able to get all the channels above -100 dBm (under "Rx_dBm") pretty easily.

- The transmitter clusters are spread out in azimuth, so you won't be able to get all of the channels in the 4228's "beam width" simultaneously. You should definitely consider a motorized rotator.



I hope this helps. Good luck!


Best regards,
Andy

Dan & Andy,

Thanks for your help... it's nice that I might have a chance and will report back when I move in a couple weeks and make time to set up the antenna.

Now my other choices, do I keep Dish Network dish that's installed and give dish a try, try Comcast Digital or stay with DirecTv and have them install a new dish? But I guess that's a question for another forum. :confused:

Just curious, has anyone in the Bellingham area been able to pick up any of the local channels (FOX, NBC, etc..)

I looked on antennaweb and it basically told me there was nothing I could pick up, but it said it's conservative and I was wondering if anyone had had any luck.

Just curious, has anyone in the Bellingham area been able to pick up any of the local channels (FOX, NBC, etc..)

I looked on antennaweb and it basically told me there was nothing I could pick up, but it said it's conservative and I was wondering if anyone had had any luck.

Spellosaurus
I assume you're talking about HD reception. I have not done any surveys out there, but KOMO did a survey all around the Puget Sound area when they first fired up the HD. They might have some info for you, ask for engineering.
The other piece of data I do know about. My friend has a microwave shot from his house on top of Queen Anne hill, one block from KOMO's tower, that goes to Mt Constitution on Orcas Island. It then repeats to Bellingham from there. The tower on Orcas, right next to the lookout, is about 2700ft above sea level. It's about 90 miles, and his house is about 500ft elevation, or about half of the TV towers. It barely makes the microwave link, because of Earth's curvature. Putting it all together, you need to be on a fairly high hill to get reception. It's going to be pretty weak, too. If you can give me cross streets where you are, I can give you a better idea.
Dan

Just curious, has anyone in the Bellingham area been able to pick up any of the local channels (FOX, NBC, etc..)

I looked on antennaweb and it basically told me there was nothing I could pick up, but it said it's conservative and I was wondering if anyone had had any luck.

As I reported a couple of years back I can get the main networks with the exception of KCPQ here in Aldergrove, B.C. but I'm at 350' elevation. I'm using two CM4228s with an AP4800 preamp.
My problem with KCPQ is multipath (Jagged edge on Spectrum Analyzer)

Good luck.

Dan Thanks for the help but the antenna route didn't go so well! I did pick up a Samsung HD Tuner DTB-H260F and it seems to be working very great! Thanks Again! I may try OTA again soon neighbors are planning on cutting there trees down to the south of me anytime! Till then I'll have to enjoy the QAM side of the Tuner!

I need an answer about OTA from someone with more knowledge than I. Will a Spartan pre-amp that has the flat wire input with coax output work with a 4228 just using flat wire instead of a balun ?

Anybody getting OTA HD channels in Kent...if so what antenna are you using?

(I may have posted this in the wrong place!)

I guess I'm one of those fortunately located Seattleites - I get OTA Digital/HD for the dominant stations. According to an OTA guide I should be able to get 33.1, 33.2 and 33.3. I can barely get the analog from downstairs but can get it upstairs. There are some OLDIES on 33 that can be fun viewing, even if not HD.

Anyone know why the limitation. Looking around it appears they broadcast from Tiger (or Cougar - never get those straight).

Dan Thanks for the help but the antenna route didn't go so well! I did pick up a Samsung HD Tuner DTB-H260F and it seems to be working very great! Thanks Again! I may try OTA again soon neighbors are planning on cutting there trees down to the south of me anytime! Till then I'll have to enjoy the QAM side of the Tuner!

Judbud
Welcome.
Let us know what happens with OTA later on.
Dan

I need an answer about OTA from someone with more knowledge than I. Will a Spartan pre-amp that has the flat wire input with coax output work with a 4228 just using flat wire instead of a balun ?

forum junkie
Yes, but keep the preamp as close as possible to the antenna, twist the twinlead as it goes through the screen, and try to keep it away from metal.
Hate to tell you how many problems you can get using the old stuff. Coax is sooooo much better. You might even consider just using a short piece of coax, with a balun on each end, allowing you to mount the preamp in an easier location, like the bottom of the mast. The amount of loss is insignificant, but you won't have the twinlead picking up anything extra.
Dan

(I may have posted this in the wrong place!)

I guess I'm one of those fortunately located Seattleites - I get OTA Digital/HD for the dominant stations. According to an OTA guide I should be able to get 33.1, 33.2 and 33.3. I can barely get the analog from downstairs but can get it upstairs. There are some OLDIES on 33 that can be fun viewing, even if not HD.

Anyone know why the limitation. Looking around it appears they broadcast from Tiger (or Cougar - never get those straight).

fred2
Most likley you enough difference in direction from your location and your antenna is doing what it's supposed to, which is reject signals coming in from the side. It also doesn't have much suds, only 175kw, but does transmit from Tiger Mt at a good elevation, so that helps. Another problem is it's transmitting pattern is mostly NE and SW, with not much going to Seattle.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=69488&rotate=0.00&p0=0.970&p10=1.000&p20=0.973&p30=0.910&p40=0.826&p50=0.713&p60=0.488&p70=0.312&p80=0.242&p90=0.364&p100=0.496&p110=0.593&p120=0.490&p130=0.348&p140=0.360&p150=0.517&p160=0.665&p170=0.764&p180=0.834&p190=0.780&p200=0.783&p210=0.708&p220=0.626&p230=0.489&p240=0.411&p250=0.351&p260=0.349&p270=0.344&p280=0.354&p290=0.375&p300=0.389&p310=0.351&p320=0.347&p330=0.422&p340=0.603&p350=0.778&p360=0.970&

Add it all up and it can get difficult.

Now if you want to talk about their analog, it's smokin, 3700kw. That's why it comes in everywhere, but of course, it always has at least some ghosting. Now if they were to swap signals, you'd be in Fat City !

Dan

DanKurts:

Thanks for that additional information on their transmitter. Since I merely using a rabbit ear type of antenna with an additional loop and two way switch purchased from Radio Shack, I guess I cannot complain. The quality of digital with this limited apparatus is quite amazing.

Now if I can figure out where/how to mount the tv which is currently plopped down in the middle of the living room.

Anybody getting OTA HD channels in Kent...if so what antenna are you using?

We're using a CM 4221, without a pre-amp, and getting decent reception from the East side of town (132nd street). It didn't work for channel 5 or 9 when I pointed it halfway between the channel 13 tower and the Seattle towers, but now that I've rotated it a bit, I can get pretty much everything.

Note that Fry's didn't have the antenna, so I ordered it from Stark.

Dan - maybe you can answer this for me, when it's raining out, I can get all channels with KIRO and KING on the low end but pretty steady. When it's clear and sunny out, all my signals drop losing KIRO and KING. But when it freezes outside, everything registers in the 80's too 100. Short of praying for freezing weather, is there anything I can do?

Help, I'm having problems getting a signal for KOMO and the rest of my channels have a signal strength of approx 50%. I have a Channel Master 4228 antenna, a CM rotator, and a cheap Radio Shack preamp. It has a gain of ~20db, and noise level of ~4. I live on the corner of 93rd and 234th st SW in Edmonds. I tried using a CM Spartan 3 amplifier, but it was useless. If I were to upgrade to a CM7555 preamp would that make a difference?

We're using a CM 4221, without a pre-amp, and getting decent reception from the East side of town (132nd street). It didn't work for channel 5 or 9 when I pointed it halfway between the channel 13 tower and the Seattle towers, but now that I've rotated it a bit, I can get pretty much everything.

Note that Fry's didn't have the antenna, so I ordered it from Stark.

Thanks KRyanx. Is this outdoor antenna?

Dan - maybe you can answer this for me, when it's raining out, I can get all channels with KIRO and KING on the low end but pretty steady. When it's clear and sunny out, all my signals drop losing KIRO and KING. But when it freezes outside, everything registers in the 80's too 100. Short of praying for freezing weather, is there anything I can do?

forumjunkie
Several things cause this. Corroded connections where the balun is, or the elements and their connecting rods. Also, the balun can get moisture inside causing all kinds of strange things. Common cure is to clean the connecting terminals, replace the balun, seal everything, and you should be fine again.

The causes.
Heating and cooling temps cause the metal to expand and contract, and the connecting points will change their conductivity. Antenna signals are very small to begin with, so it doesn't take much to make a big change. Classic example, old antenna, working fine, gets removed, mast and all as one piece, for roofing job, gets replaced in same chimney strap mount, signal drastically changes or dies. Just wiggling it around makes the connecting points move enough that it's now hitting a more corroded section. Most common on big VHF antennas, low band, where the elements are 3 to 6 ft each.

Balun trick should do it. Put a new fitting on the cable end, too, if it looks dull or corroded.
Dan

Help, I'm having problems getting a signal for KOMO and the rest of my channels have a signal strength of approx 50%. I have a Channel Master 4228 antenna, a CM rotator, and a cheap Radio Shack preamp. It has a gain of ~20db, and noise level of ~4. I live on the corner of 93rd and 234th st SW in Edmonds. I tried using a CM Spartan 3 amplifier, but it was useless. If I were to upgrade to a CM7555 preamp would that make a difference?

tako8
The 7775 preamp is what I use 98% of the time. I suspect you may have other problems. That area is notorious for chopping up signal. You're going through about 3 miles of heavy Fir trees. It's not just gain, but you need ALL of the signal for a specific channel to get there at the same time. When I look at signals around there on my meter, there almost always ugly, to some degree. You're also on the backside of a small hill, which doesn't help. The 4228 is good for gain, but lousy for directionality. That's where yagi style antennas work better. Since you already have a rotor, you could try a 4248, my fav for tough tree areas. Leave the preamp alone for now. Moving the setup to another location, even 6 inches away can also make or break reception.
Dan

Anybody getting OTA HD channels in Kent...if so what antenna are you using?

gdeep
Depends a lot on where in Kent. That's a huge area, address wise. Lots of hills and valleys. I have had some installs that were easy, others ugly. Send cross streets and I can give you a better idea.
Dan

Thanks KRyanx. Is this outdoor antenna?
Yes, it's mounted pretty high (around 35 feet) as our house is in a bit of a hollow. Others have used it in an attic. I doubt an indoor antenna will work well in Kent.

Is anyone else having problems with Ch 28 OTA HDTV? It died on me several days ago. My RS HDTV tuner shows a signal of ~88 - 90, and SNR of ~30dB. All the other channels are fine. Stable set up for nearly 2 years. Silver sensor indoor antenna. I live near 125 St and 7th Ave NW.

Problem most likely on my end, but would like to hear OTA 28 is ok before I start changing stuff.

Thanks a bunch.

tg3, my SNR on KBTC dropped about 10 dB a couple days ago, so it's not just you. I was going to go out on the roof to see if adjusting the antenna would help, but now I won't bother.

Sometimes late Friday night it got better. I get their signal again, but they are no longer broadcasting PSIP data, so they'll show up as channel 27.1 to 27.4.

What is the deal with the OTA HD audio levels? They seem to be all over the place, even from one station.

Recently, NBC on KING 5.1 started broadcasting the evening national news in true HD, rather than just SD over the digital signal. The audio is so quiet I have to turn it way up, and if I forget to turn back down before changing the channel... look out!

Whoops, looks like KING switched back to the SD feed, not getting any HD tonight during the even the local news, which has always done a sometimes HD sometimes SD signal, usually sending the studio shots HD. Not tonight.

So maybe they know that the HD OTA signal on 5.1 was inconsistent for audio level, that at least has gone away (along with HD pictures).

I'm using a DirecTV HD HR 10-250 TiVo DVR that has OTA cababilities. All OTA signals are much quieter than the satellite signals.

Is the a universal experience? Do I need to bite the bullet and look at a different receiver, or is it a common experience to have different audio levels for OTA and satellite signals?

TIA,
-->Aaron

What is the deal with the OTA HD audio levels? They seem to be all over the place, even from one station.

Recently, NBC on KING 5.1 started broadcasting the evening national news in true HD, rather than just SD over the digital signal. The audio is so quiet I have to turn it way up, and if I forget to turn back down before changing the channel... look out!

Whoops, looks like KING switched back to the SD feed, not getting any HD tonight during the even the local news, which has always done a sometimes HD sometimes SD signal, usually sending the studio shots HD. Not tonight.

So maybe they know that the HD OTA signal on 5.1 was inconsistent for audio level, that at least has gone away (along with HD pictures).

I'm using a DirecTV HD HR 10-250 TiVo DVR that has OTA cababilities. All OTA signals are much quieter than the satellite signals.

Is the a universal experience? Do I need to bite the bullet and look at a different receiver, or is it a common experience to have different audio levels for OTA and satellite signals?

TIA,
-->Aaron

APailthorp
Sadly, that's way too common. It also varies from receiver types to even models. All the new Direct boxes have slightly different audio audio out levels. The older sat tuners did, too. Fortunately, some of the newer AV receivers have adjustments for differing input levels, which helps some, and a few even have delay adjustments for one of my big gripes, out of sync audio. KING is always out on newscasts, even in SD, so no matter which you're watching, it's never right, arrrgghh. You would think some of these engineers would get it right. It's definitely NOT rocket science. On Cable or Sat, the HD channels like HDNet or INHD are just as bad. They even vary from show to show for level and sync on the same channel! And if you're watching somebody playing an instrument, like guitar, the notes aren't matching the sound, really annoying to anyone that plays!!
No solution, really, just keep your remote handy. I did try to fix it with a Pronto I programmed for a customer. All the HD channel icons had 3 or 4 Vol Up commands to match on the macro, and 3 or 4 down on the SD channels. Worked pretty good, made changing a little slow, but never could get it right on because of the varying volumes from show to show on same channel.
Hey, at least the HD picture makes it worth the effort !
Dan

The national news on KING last night looked good in HD at the beginning but switched during the broadcast to very poor quality SD (it looked like ghosting), with a noticeable increase in volume. When they returned to the local broadcast at 6:30, it looked normal, but I find the constant switching between 16:9 and 4:3 to be quite distracting. Even 16:9 SD (which KCTS does quite well) would be an improvement. KOMO does a much better job with news than the others (I just wish Directv would finally carry it in HD, since the OTA signal is poor here).

tg3, my SNR on KBTC dropped about 10 dB a couple days ago, so it's not just you. I was going to go out on the roof to see if adjusting the antenna would help, but now I won't bother.

Sometimes late Friday night it got better. I get their signal again, but they are no longer broadcasting PSIP data, so they'll show up as channel 27.1 to 27.4.
Thanks! I resynched my receiver, and now get KBTC on 27. Whatever. :rolleyes:

I live in the U-District and just got an hdtv. I'm trying to figure out the best antenna for my situation. I live in a street level apartment. Unfortunately my apartment is on the north east corner of the building, while it seems all of the towers are south and southwest. Will the fact that I'm so close to the towers help overcome my other obstacles? Recommendations appreciated, stats below.

Thanks


* yellow - uhf KMYQ-DT 22.1 MNT SEATTLE WA 157° 2.9 25
* yellow - uhf KOMO-DT 4.1 ABC SEATTLE WA 208° 2.5 38
* yellow - uhf KONG-DT 16.1 IND EVERETT WA 206° 2.5 31
* yellow - uhf KING-DT 5.1 NBC SEATTLE WA 206° 2.5 48
* yellow - uhf KIRO-DT 7.1 CBS SEATTLE WA 212° 2.6 39
* yellow - uhf KCPQ-DT 13.1 FOX TACOMA WA 234° 24.2 18
* yellow - uhf KCTS-DT 9.1 PBS SEATTLE WA 157° 2.9 41
* green - uhf KWDK-DT 42.1 DAY TACOMA WA 105° 19.3 42
* red - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 ION BELLEVUE WA 105° 19.3 32
* red - uhf KWOG-DT 51.1 IND BELLEVUE WA 105° 19.3 50
* red - uhf KSTW-DT 11.1 CW TACOMA WA 157° 2.9 36
* violet - uhf KHCV-DT 44.1 SAH SEATTLE WA 105° 19.3 44

I live in the U-District and just got an hdtv. I'm trying to figure out the best antenna for my situation. I live in a street level apartment. Unfortunately my apartment is on the north east corner of the building, while it seems all of the towers are south and southwest. Will the fact that I'm so close to the towers help overcome my other obstacles? Recommendations appreciated, stats below.

Thanks


* yellow - uhf KMYQ-DT 22.1 MNT SEATTLE WA 157° 2.9 25
* yellow - uhf KOMO-DT 4.1 ABC SEATTLE WA 208° 2.5 38
* yellow - uhf KONG-DT 16.1 IND EVERETT WA 206° 2.5 31
* yellow - uhf KING-DT 5.1 NBC SEATTLE WA 206° 2.5 48
* yellow - uhf KIRO-DT 7.1 CBS SEATTLE WA 212° 2.6 39
* yellow - uhf KCPQ-DT 13.1 FOX TACOMA WA 234° 24.2 18
* yellow - uhf KCTS-DT 9.1 PBS SEATTLE WA 157° 2.9 41
* green - uhf KWDK-DT 42.1 DAY TACOMA WA 105° 19.3 42
* red - uhf KWPX-DT 33.1 ION BELLEVUE WA 105° 19.3 32
* red - uhf KWOG-DT 51.1 IND BELLEVUE WA 105° 19.3 50
* red - uhf KSTW-DT 11.1 CW TACOMA WA 157° 2.9 36
* violet - uhf KHCV-DT 44.1 SAH SEATTLE WA 105° 19.3 44


lonelytylenol
You have a challenge. Yes, signals will be hot, but they will also bouncing off everything. Try a small UHF antenna, like the Silver Sensor or DB2, and no amplifier. Don't be surprised if not much comes in. You might have to move it around for each channel.
Dan

Transmitter Coverage Maps for Google Earth

I don't see that anyone has posted this information here about the sticky thread in the HDTV Hardware Reception forum with very useful coverage maps for analog and digital TV stations and translators. I gather that the Seattle area is a challenge for many for OTA reception. The kmz files have been revised and now expanded for files covering the top 20 DMAs, including Seattle. These files combined with Google Earth are a neat tool to see what the reception strength is for each station if you zoom down to your neighborhood or your street and flip through the stations. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480 if you are interested.

Just moved up to Seattle about a month ago and will be moving into Redmond in about 2-3 weeks while our house is renovated.

The house is located across from Idylwood Park next to W. Lake Sammamish Pkway on 177th Ave NE.

Aside from Chinna_n, haven't seen anyone else from Redmond post about OTA signals.

Dan, any idea how many OTA channels I'll be able to pick up?

P.S. Probably won't get any commercial TV until FiOS TV arrives in another year so OTA for now!

Just moved up to Seattle about a month ago and will be moving into Redmond in about 2-3 weeks while our house is renovated.

The house is located across from Idylwood Park next to W. Lake Sammamish Pkway on 177th Ave NE.

Aside from Chinna_n, haven't seen anyone else from Redmond post about OTA signals.

Dan, any idea how many OTA channels I'll be able to pick up?

P.S. Probably won't get any commercial TV until FiOS TV arrives in another year so OTA for now!
I'm on Education Hill on the other side of town from you. I can pull in pretty much all of the local digitals with a rooftop antenna. I'm near the top of the hill with a fairly clear line to the west so I'm sure that helps. If I understand your location, I suspect you're on the eastern slope of a hill, which might be a problem. Most of the transmitters are in Seattle. Dan is certainly a better authority though, so I'd take his advice over mine. Good luck!

I thought King5 TV broadcast in WIDESCREEN HD??? No? The main studio news is "narrow" as are the remote locations.

I thought King5 TV broadcast in WIDESCREEN HD??? No? The main studio news is "narrow" as are the remote locations.

The studio stuff seems to switch between 16:9 and 4:3. I understand that they will be increasing the HD content soon.

Until fairly recently, they had a KING HD "bug" showing when it was 16:9.

KOMO's news has more 16:9 content although I don't think it is all HD.

I thought King5 TV broadcast in WIDESCREEN HD??? No? The main studio news is "narrow" as are the remote locations.
KING's graphics generator does not support 16x9 and HD, so every time they have a graphic on the screen the picture is 4x3. When there are no graphics, it goes to 16x9.

Lately it seems they are leaving their KING-TV5 bug on the screen longer, so we see less 16x9 during the local newscasts.

Just moved up to Seattle about a month ago and will be moving into Redmond in about 2-3 weeks while our house is renovated.

The house is located across from Idylwood Park next to W. Lake Sammamish Pkway on 177th Ave NE.

Aside from Chinna_n, haven't seen anyone else from Redmond post about OTA signals.

Dan, any idea how many OTA channels I'll be able to pick up?

P.S. Probably won't get any commercial TV until FiOS TV arrives in another year so OTA for now!

k-y
It's a bad spot. The hill is just too high. You'll pick up some channels from Tiger Mt to the SE, but no major stations, none of the stuff you most likely want. They do have cable there. Basic cable for minimum bucks and a TV with a QAM tuner or card for your PC would let you pick up the locals in HD with out having to spring for the extra charge HD cable box. Or pick up the Samsung 260 over air HD tuner which also has a QAM tuner.
Dan

Transmitter Coverage Maps for Google Earth

I don't see that anyone has posted this information here about the sticky thread in the HDTV Hardware Reception forum with very useful coverage maps for analog and digital TV stations and translators. I gather that the Seattle area is a challenge for many for OTA reception. The kmz files have been revised and now expanded for files covering the top 20 DMAs, including Seattle. These files combined with Google Earth are a neat tool to see what the reception strength is for each station if you zoom down to your neighborhood or your street and flip through the stations. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480 if you are interested.

afiggatt
I downloaded the files and gave it a spin. I applaud the idea and all the effort that went into the combining these data sources. I gave it a try on some known dead zones, and most of the time it says they'll be fine. Among the dead zones tried: West Lake Sammamish Parkway around NE 24th, (which curiously has the same color as the plateau around 148th to 160th on NE 24th, East Bellevue, and works quite well); West Lake Washington, along Riviera Pl NE from 145th down to Matthews Beach, which has the same color as the View Ridge plateau, a known good area to the SW. Some areas are correct, like Perkins Lane on West Magnolia and SW side of Vashon Island, along the beach. All in all, a nice try, but the greater Puget Sound has so many heavily treed areas as well as gullies, hills, buildings that don't show up but block (like all the high rises in downtown Bellevue that chop up various channels East of town, among other wierd problems), and other Tales From the Dark Side.
All in all, I found it's not really accurate enough to use, realistically. Would be great if it was.
Dan

Its been awhile since I visited this thread since I'am stuck in the trees on a hill east of Duvall... pretty much gave up on local reception.

I recently gave an OTA HD receiver and Silver Sensor to my parents who live in N. Seattle - about 130th and Meridian Ave by Ingraham HS. I thought they would be able to get reception easily, but the picture pops in and out and appears to be very sensitive to antenna direction. Regardless of antenna direction the picture is never stable enough to watch, except on a couple of the junk channels.

Is a different antenna needed in this area, maybe not as directional as the Silver Sensor? Maybe an outdoor antenna?

Thank you.

I'm just north of 50th and east of Meridian. The antenna is a mere rabbit ear with a loop and two-way switch. The antenna is standing on the floor of the first floor. I get 4.1, 5.1, 5.2, 7.1, 7.2 (why I would want to stare at Sea-Tac airport I don't know), three 9.x's, 11.1, 13.1, 16.1 and 16.2, 22.1 and 22.2. I blocked a few others. I canNOT get 33 down there. I have had occasional dropouts but rare over these last two weeks (since I went digital).

Seattle is so rolling. I tried an indoor antenna from Radio Shack that had a rotator but it did not improve reception so I returned it.