Thanks for replying!
I live in Bellevue and both Seattle and Bremerton are west from here, but Bremerton is slightly southwards. Did you mean a bit southwards?

I'll try that today anyway.

Yes, for you it would be a bit southwards, but on a map the station is located west of Bremerton. :)

http://www.tvfool.com/

This is one of the better sites for determining signal direction, etc. at your location.
Much more data than AntennaWeb, anyhow.

I got a new hdtv and thought will try OTA instead of paying Comcast extra $$/month. I got a new TERK INDOOR HDTVA and hooked it up and am able to get about 10-15 digital channels.

I'm in bellevue downtown near Bellevue regional library.
I get KOMO, KIRO, NBC, WB DT quite fine but am not able get FOX at all.
When I first connected the antenna in the morning, I got a clear FOX picture for 1-2 minutes and then it said "Weak or No signal". So, after an hour of trying to reposition, I reconnected the antenna and reran the auto program and my TV. Now 13.1 & 13.2 are not event listed in channel list of my TV. Other OTA DT are still fine. Does anyone have similar problem or any ideas that I can try?

thanks a lot for your help!
Dami

I think you should get a small outdoor antenna. It may be all you need to get a lock on Q13. This will also make all the other stations more reliable throughout the year, for instance when there are leaves on trees and so on.

https://secure.freetvsignal.com/viewAll.php

Just received my 2 government coupon converter boxes (SunKey SK-801ATSC) from this site (found the link on FatWallet.com). Completely free and the site didn't require a credit card. Here's the original discussion on Fatwallet.com

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/topic_view.php?catid=18&threadid=880796&start=0

These have the 7-day TVGOS episode guide and analog passthrough. Not the highest-rated for picture quality and tuner strength, but kinda mid-range. Also, no timer function.

I got them because I didn't want my coupons to expire; I just know I'll be running into folks who are clamoring for these converters come February and I wanted to have a few on hand to give away.

Reminder: those coupons are only good for 90 days from issue, folks!

I think you should get a small outdoor antenna. It may be all you need to get a lock on Q13. This will also make all the other stations more reliable throughout the year, for instance when there are leaves on trees and so on.

I tried repositioning the indoor antenna and couldn't get FOX at all. But as you suggested, I'll try an outdoor antenna (when spring comes, leaves on trees are one good reason). I live in Bellevue downtown and my small balcony faces North, quite opposite from Seattle/ Bremerton. Do you think an outdoor antenna would work? Any recommendations?

(If I can see seahawks games in HD, I wont need Comcast HD. I wish I could trade KCTS HD for FOX HD).
thanks a lot for your tips.

I tried repositioning the indoor antenna and couldn't get FOX at all. But as you suggested, I'll try an outdoor antenna (when spring comes, leaves on trees are one good reason). I live in Bellevue downtown and my small balcony faces North, quite opposite from Seattle/ Bremerton. Do you think an outdoor antenna would work? Any recommendations?

(If I can see seahawks games in HD, I wont need Comcast HD. I wish I could trade KCTS HD for FOX HD).
thanks a lot for your tips.

Might be worth asking your building management about the possibility of setting up a rooftop antenna (perhaps a shared one that any building resident could choose to connect to via the main coaxial distribution box?) May not be possible if Comcast controls and locks the cable box, but worth checking into at least.

Many of my friends live in areas that should have great OTA reception, but because their apartments are too low or face the wrong direction they're stuck with next to no signal. A shared rooftop antenna would be ideal in those cases, but I'm not sure if it's done anymore.

Anyone know if/when KCPQ is going to do a digital test on ch. 13 in advance of the Feb. transition?

I tried repositioning the indoor antenna and couldn't get FOX at all. But as you suggested, I'll try an outdoor antenna (when spring comes, leaves on trees are one good reason). I live in Bellevue downtown and my small balcony faces North, quite opposite from Seattle/ Bremerton. Do you think an outdoor antenna would work? Any recommendations?

(If I can see seahawks games in HD, I wont need Comcast HD. I wish I could trade KCTS HD for FOX HD).
thanks a lot for your tips.

If the building super won't work on a shared rooftop antenna (good suggestion by others), I wonder if you can snake a 2 ft length of wire "around the corner" onto the West facing side of your building. Depends, of course, on whether you can access that side of the building at all and how high you are (line of sight to Gold Mountain?), but you might not need a full-on antenna (and no one would probably notice a bit of wire on the side of the building).

Would be too late for football this year... but something to consider is that KCPQ Fox is going to switch their digital broadcast to physical channel 13 after the transition on Feb. 19. Channel 13 is approximately twice the wavelength of ch. 18 (which they're presently using for their digital broadcast). The longer wavelength will penetrate your building better and should improve reception, particularly if you can presently pick it up sometimes.

Last odd-ball suggestion would be to hang a large sheet of fine aluminum wire mesh as far off of your porch as you could comfortably go. Angle it along a NW-SE axis and use it as a reflector, pointing your antenna at the mesh to pick up the reflected signal. Maybe the sight of it would prompt the building super to reconsider the shared rooftop antenna! Ha, ha, ha... I can see it now...

If the building super won't work on a shared rooftop antenna (good suggestion by others), I wonder if you can snake a 2 ft length of wire "around the corner" onto the West facing side of your building. Depends, of course, on whether you can access that side of the building at all and how high you are (line of sight to Gold Mountain?), but you might not need a full-on antenna (and no one would probably notice a bit of wire on the side of the building).

Would be too late for football this year... but something to consider is that KCPQ Fox is going to switch their digital broadcast to physical channel 13 after the transition on Feb. 19. Channel 13 is approximately twice the wavelength of ch. 18 (which they're presently using for their digital broadcast). The longer wavelength will penetrate your building better and should improve reception, particularly if you can presently pick it up sometimes.

Last odd-ball suggestion would be to hang a large sheet of fine aluminum wire mesh as far off of your porch as you could comfortably go. Angle it along a NW-SE axis and use it as a reflector, pointing your antenna at the mesh to pick up the reflected signal. Maybe the sight of it would prompt the building super to reconsider the shared rooftop antenna! Ha, ha, ha... I can see it now...

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions. I went and asked my management and they really are not going to do it. Nor do they allow any hanging wires of the balcony. I think I'll try an outdoor antenna and also wait for Feb's digital transmission. That really sounds promising. Maybe I can pick couple more channels. Thanks again!

kooldg - so I can check for any hills in your way using topo software, what's your nearest cross streets? also how high is your antenna off the ground? Terk does not get rave reviews on AVS so you might try a Zenith Silver Sensor which is highly rated for an indoor unit. Your aim for CH 13 is WSW.

I tried repositioning the indoor antenna and couldn't get FOX at all. But as you suggested, I'll try an outdoor antenna (when spring comes, leaves on trees are one good reason). I live in Bellevue downtown and my small balcony faces North, quite opposite from Seattle/ Bremerton. Do you think an outdoor antenna would work? Any recommendations?

(If I can see seahawks games in HD, I wont need Comcast HD. I wish I could trade KCTS HD for FOX HD).
thanks a lot for your tips.

kooldg
If your TV tuner is capable of tuning digital cable, QAM, hook it up directly, minus the box, and you'll get all the locals in HD. They don't encrypt those channels. Then you'll only need basic cable, about $13/mo, give or take, and take the box back. If your TV doesn't have that tuner, then pickup a Samsung H260 at Best Buy, about $165, and it will tune QAM. Has all the HD and SD outputs, plus optical, and is one heck of a good over air tuner, as well, so it could be used for that if you move later.
CH13 from where you are is not easy, and facing north is what's doing you in.
Dan

...

I just know I'll be running into folks who are clamoring for these converters come February and I wanted to have a few on hand to give away.
...



OK, as long as your not going to pull a "Dwight" on people :D
(refer to The Office episode last Thur).

kooldg - so I can check for any hills in your way using topo software, what's your nearest cross streets? also how high is your antenna off the ground? Terk does not get rave reviews on AVS so you might try a Zenith Silver Sensor which is highly rated for an indoor unit. Your aim for CH 13 is WSW.

Thanks! My nearest intersection is NE 10th st & 108th ave NE, bellevue.
I saw lot of good reviews on Amazon & some one in a buy.com review saying TERK got them Q13, so I thought I'll try it.

But sure, I'll try to get the one you're suggesting and see if that helps.

kooldg
If your TV tuner is capable of tuning digital cable, QAM, hook it up directly, minus the box, and you'll get all the locals in HD. They don't encrypt those channels. Then you'll only need basic cable, about $13/mo, give or take, and take the box back. If your TV doesn't have that tuner, then pickup a Samsung H260 at Best Buy, about $165, and it will tune QAM. Has all the HD and SD outputs, plus optical, and is one heck of a good over air tuner, as well, so it could be used for that if you move later.
CH13 from where you are is not easy, and facing north is what's doing you in.
Dan

Wow, that was a cool trick. I did what you said and I now get awesome NBC, FOX HD... Cool, I'll play with antenna but this'll definitely solve my football HD problems. Thanks!

Wow, that was a cool trick. I did what you said and I now get awesome NBC, FOX HD... Cool, I'll play with antenna but this'll definitely solve my football HD problems. Thanks!
Not that you wouldn't, but be sure you sign up and pay the basic cable subscription, per Dan's post.

While it sometimes involves a visit by a service technician to a location somewhere in the vicinity to perform this check, the cable company can remotely tell when a tuner is attached to the end of their cable. They periodically perform these checks and compare the results to their subscriber database, to identify people obtaining cable service without paying for it.

While it sometimes involves a visit by a service technician to a location somewhere in the vicinity to perform this check, the cable company can remotely tell when a tuner is attached to the end of their cable. They periodically perform these checks and compare the results to their subscriber database, to identify people obtaining cable service without paying for it.

We found out a while back that our cable was live for at least 7 years. We had never once tested it, since we always hd satellite or OTA. One day a Comcast employee came to our door asking us if we had cable, and my wife had to show her where the cable came into the house and that the cable was not being used.

Sorry Dan, I did not follow your advise but went for the HD-1080, not because of the HD part but because of the smaller footprint, double bow-tie and promises of high VHF. This is also one of the reasons I have accummulated more antennas than tuners. This time, I went for the roof, pointing directly at the leafless maples 50ft away. I got everything I had before with the baby Yagi (not on the roof) plus KTBS and especially Qubo coming from the side! KCPQ, at 30 miles away showed a little less S/N but is still very stable. All the Queen Ann's and Capitol Hill's are stronger (and more stable due to the better location).

By the way, I run a 100ft coax (probably 50ft will do) to the side of the house then do a 3-1 split at the distributor panel.

In conclusion, despite the goofy "HD-" name, the bow-tie delivers. I like the maples but since they were destined to be chopped, now I hope that the real estate market picks up again so the builder can go ahead with their plan. I don't want to move my antenna again in spring.

We found out a while back that our cable was live for at least 7 years. We had never once tested it, since we always hd satellite or OTA. One day a Comcast employee came to our door asking us if we had cable, and my wife had to show her where the cable came into the house and that the cable was not being used.

I agree that using cable without paying is stealing and shouldn't be done. However if I was not a subscriber and I was not stealing service and comcast or some other utility came to my door asking to come in my house and check for theft of service, connected tuner/tv, etc, I'd tell them to go pound sand and point them to THEIR DEMARC outside the house / apartment and direct them to ensure that THEY had correctly performed a disconnect at that location or at the nearest tap. Otherwise they can have the police get a warrant to search my house for evidence of a crime, and when none is found prepare to be sued. Being too lazy to provision a disconnect properly is not an excuse for the trampling of your privacy rights by any company.

And these days, who knows, the "tech" might not even really work for comcast, they could be a crook casing your house for that expensive TV, and now they know where to find it and whether you have a security system, etc.

Not that you wouldn't, but be sure you sign up and pay the basic cable subscription, per Dan's post.

While it sometimes involves a visit by a service technician to a location somewhere in the vicinity to perform this check, the cable company can remotely tell when a tuner is attached to the end of their cable. They periodically perform these checks and compare the results to their subscriber database, to identify people obtaining cable service without paying for it.

I've extended cable (2-70) and pay about $40/month. So they shouldn't complain.
I saw couple days back in Seattletimes that Comcast is going to make the cable box mandatory (to get channels 30-70)starting February(See http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/brierdudley/2008484428_brier09.html). So I'll keep the cable box and use a splitter from the cable outlet. I can use the antenna part for HD and cable box for other non-local channels.

Why bother with antenna if you already pay for cable? Newer TVs and STBs (not those $40 coupon eligible) do clear QAM.

Why bother with antenna if you already pay for cable? Newer TVs and STBs (not those $40 coupon eligible) do clear QAM.

Because until DanKurts told me, I was using Comcast cable box with my TV and I guess I was just getting 480i at the best.
I mainly watch local channels and was interested in getting HD for football games and local channels, so tried OTA. Until DanKurts mentioned that comcast wont scramble the local channels, I didn't know that...

I've extended cable (2-70) and pay about $40/month. So they shouldn't complain.
I saw couple days back in Seattletimes that Comcast is going to make the cable box mandatory (to get channels 30-70)starting February(See http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/brierdudley/2008484428_brier09.html). So I'll keep the cable box and use a splitter from the cable outlet. I can use the antenna part for HD and cable box for other non-local channels.

The best bang for your buck would probably be to downgrade to "broadcast basic" cable (about $15/mo) as Dan suggests. Interesting article on an "introductory" rate $10 for first year.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6603039.html

Thanks! My nearest intersection is NE 10th st & 108th ave NE, bellevue.
I saw lot of good reviews on Amazon & some one in a buy.com review saying TERK got them Q13, so I thought I'll try it.

But sure, I'll try to get the one you're suggesting and see if that helps.

I wouldn't waste your time/money on OTA. I thought you had already tried a direct cable connection so I didn't think to ask the obvious. CH 13 OTA for you will be problematic no matter what antenna you use so just stick with cable and change to the limited plan for $15/mo.

Received this e-mail alert from KCTS this morning:

Hello from KCTS 9!
Our transition to all-digital broadcasting is nearly complete! KCTS 9 engineers are excited to have installed our new digital transmitter, which will officially bring KCTS 9 digital to channel 9 in the VHF spectrum. We’re testing the new transmitter overnight on several occasions, and we need your help! If you’re up and about between 3:00 and 5:00 a.m. and can tune in, you’ll help us ascertain our signal strength and coverage. You will need to re-scan your tuner to receive KCTS-DT on VHF channel 9.4, as during these tests we'll also be operating on UHF channel 41—our current DTV channel. The VHF channel 9 transmitter will have a special message indicating that a test of the DTV transmitter on channel 9.4 is underway. After the test, you may have to re-scan your tuner again to help it re-locate KCTS 9 digital on UHF 41.

If you can stay up or get up to turn on your digital receiver, thank you! First, re-scan for KCTS 9 digital channel 9.4. Note the signal strength from your receiver, as well as any specifics of what you experienced. Please also include your location, antenna information, and what your receiver's signal strength is when tuned to KCTS-DT on UHF 41. Then, please e-mail the information to our engineers at dtvtest@KCTS9.org.

Test dates are:

December 22 from 3:15 to 4:45 a.m.

January 12 and 26 from 3:15 to 4:45 a.m.

February 9 from 3:15 to 6:45 a.m.

Finally, as of February 18 at approximately 1:00 a.m., KCTS-DT will be permanently on VHF channel 9.

Thank you as always for being a supporter of your local public television station—and happy holidays!

Best regards,

Daphne Adair

You will need to re-scan your tuner to receive KCTS-DT on VHF channel 9.4I have very strong doubts that anyone in the Bellingham or Blaine areas or in the islands will pick up 9.4 due to adjacent channel interference from being sandwiched between two strong Canadian analogue stations (CHAN on 8 and CKVU on 10) but ya never know... Someone with a strong VHF antenna pointed right down to SeaTac might want to see how the test goes.

I'm thinking of using my computer with a tuner card to receive the local OTA broadcasts. I live in an apartment in the Greenwood neighborhood at 90th and Phinney.

I'd hate to give Comcast any more of my money. Is it worth trying an indoor antenna?

Thanks!

JD

Test dates are:

December 22 from 3:15 to 4:45 a.m.

January 12 and 26 from 3:15 to 4:45 a.m.

February 9 from 3:15 to 6:45 a.m.


Why can't it be sometime in the weekend and/or during the holidays?

Why can't it be sometime in the weekend and/or during the holidays?

If it was just one of those 5 minute digital compatibility tests, it probably would have been, but I suspect they need to run longer tests to do any necessary tweaking. They will need to shut down the analog transmitter to do these tests and the middle of the night will have the least impact on most viewers.

A relative lives adjacent to the Rainier Golf & Country Club in Boulevard Park, and complained of frequent signal breakups from aircraft using a Channel Master 4221 placed indoors.

As an experiment, I brought over and installed a Philips Silver Sensor. In their particular condo location, the Silver Sensor was substantially superior to the 4221 in rejecting aviation-related pixellation, macroblocking and audio/video signal loss. They are in a very strong signal area for the QA, Capital Hill, and West Tiger transmitters (but not for KCPQ, KTBW or KBTC).

So for folks, living close to the city center, who have a strong line-of-sight signal from the Seattle transmitters, but whose reception is oft spoilt by those magnificent flying machines, try out a Silver Sensor.

During an update channel scan at a family member's home in south Seattle, I located the "3Angels" religious station K08OU. Per TVFool, this station transmits on real channel 8. However, it appears to remap o 73.1, 73.2, 73.3, 73.4 and 73.5. What's up with this?

Will K08OU be subject to periodic co-channel interference from Vancouver's very powerful analog CHAN/8, as well as adjacent-channel interference from analog KIRO/7 and KCTS/9?

Does anyone have much info about K08OU or its "3Angels Broadcasting" network? It's not carried on Comcast cable and doesn't appear to offer any locally-originated or Seattle-specific programming.

Also: post-02/17/09 and the elimination of adjacent-channel interference from analog KIRO, KCTS and KSTW, will some Seattle viewers obtain reception on British Columbia's analog CHAN/8 and CKVU/10? Will CHAN/8's fringe analog signal be jammed in Seattle by the "3Angels"?

I'm thinking of using my computer with a tuner card to receive the local OTA broadcasts. I live in an apartment in the Greenwood neighborhood at 90th and Phinney.

I'd hate to give Comcast any more of my money. Is it worth trying an indoor antenna? If you are in a ground floor apartment where pedestrians and vehicles move around, the consistency of OTA may be disappointing. You might try a Philips Silver Sensor - it isn't the perfect indoor antenna, but it is extremely directional and designed to minimize unwanted interference commonly found in inner-city settings. Keep in mind you'll need to keep some sort of weight on the unit since it is top-heavy and easy to tip over. (Fred Meyer sells the unit for $30, and occasionally on sale for less). As you aren't in a suburban area with weaker signals, avoid amplified antennas.

Also: post-02/17/09 and the elimination of adjacent-channel interference from analog KIRO, KCTS and KSTW, will some Seattle viewers obtain reception on British Columbia's analog CHAN/8 and CKVU/10? Will CHAN/8's fringe analog signal be jammed in Seattle by the "3Angels"?

KIRO, KCTS, and KSTW are all returning to physical channel 7, 9, and 11 after February.

A relative lives adjacent to the Rainier Golf & Country Club in Boulevard Park, and complained of frequent signal breakups from aircraft using a Channel Master 4221 placed indoors.

As an experiment, I brought over and installed a Philips Silver Sensor. In their particular condo location, the Silver Sensor was substantially superior to the 4221 in rejecting aviation-related pixellation, macroblocking and audio/video signal loss. They are in a very strong signal area for the QA, Capital Hill, and West Tiger transmitters (but not for KCPQ, KTBW or KBTC).

So for folks, living close to the city center, who have a strong line-of-sight signal from the Seattle transmitters, but whose reception is oft spoilt by those magnificent flying machines, try out a Silver Sensor.

Their success with the Silver Sensor is not surprising. It is much more directional than a 4221 in both planes (no pun intended) and so it rejects off-axis reflections much better. The only drawback to a very directional antenna is the (sometimes) required re-orient for various stations. But that depends a lot on where you live relative to the various towers. Nice work on the swap out!

KIRO, KCTS, and KSTW are all returning to physical channel 7, 9, and 11 after February.

The latest FCC info says it is 9,11,13 going VHF, not KIRO. They are staying on UHF 39.

I'm thinking of using my computer with a tuner card to receive the local OTA broadcasts. I live in an apartment in the Greenwood neighborhood at 90th and Phinney.

I'd hate to give Comcast any more of my money. Is it worth trying an indoor antenna?

Thanks!

JD

If you have access to the south and west you should be able to get something unless you're on the ground floor. Before you invest $$ you might want to borrow a stand-alone tuner and indoor antenna and do a quick reception test. If you don't have access to those items send me a PM.

Received this e-mail alert from KCTS this morning:

Hello from KCTS 9!
Our transition to all-digital broadcasting is nearly complete! KCTS 9 engineers are excited to have installed our new digital transmitter, which will officially bring KCTS 9 digital to channel 9 in the VHF spectrum. We’re testing the new transmitter overnight on several occasions, and we need your help! If you’re up and about between 3:00 and 5:00 a.m. and can tune in, you’ll help us ascertain our signal strength and coverage. You will need to re-scan your tuner to receive KCTS-DT on VHF channel 9.4, as during these tests we'll also be operating on UHF channel 41—our current DTV channel. The VHF channel 9 transmitter will have a special message indicating that a test of the DTV transmitter on channel 9.4 is underway. After the test, you may have to re-scan your tuner again to help it re-locate KCTS 9 digital on UHF 41.

If you can stay up or get up to turn on your digital receiver, thank you! First, re-scan for KCTS 9 digital channel 9.4. Note the signal strength from your receiver, as well as any specifics of what you experienced. Please also include your location, antenna information, and what your receiver's signal strength is when tuned to KCTS-DT on UHF 41. Then, please e-mail the information to our engineers at dtvtest@KCTS9.org.

Test dates are:

December 22 from 3:15 to 4:45 a.m.

January 12 and 26 from 3:15 to 4:45 a.m.

February 9 from 3:15 to 6:45 a.m.

Finally, as of February 18 at approximately 1:00 a.m., KCTS-DT will be permanently on VHF channel 9.

Thank you as always for being a supporter of your local public television station—and happy holidays!

Best regards,

Daphne Adair

I just got an email from KCTS. The test scheduled for tonight has been cancelled due to the weather.

Quick question- does snow accumulation on antenna affect signal reception?

I've been having pretty good reception during the snow, despite the fact that an earlier wind storm moved my antenna so that it's about 20 degrees off from my ideal heading and I've had about 6 inches of snow on the elements (Duvall got BURIED- I'm talking 2 feet plus!)

Hope you're all enjoying the snow- and no matter how much you want to climb up there - STAY OFF THE ROOF! :)

Less than a foot here, but I haven't had any major snow issues (other than being home-bound since Saturday and not having a mail delivery since Wednesday). There were some brief breakups on 5.2 a few days ago, but I don't know if it was snow-related. I haven't had any issues with Directv either. The signal level of my Clearwire ISP connection dropped slightly, but it is looking through some trees.

The effects of snow covered trees around are probably bigger than some snow on the antenna itself. I haven't seen any problems at all with my antenna - compared to the sat dish wish needs to be wiped off after it snowed (lukily it's pretty close to the ground)

Quick question- does snow accumulation on antenna affect signal reception?

It all depends on the height of your antenna above the surface it's mounted to and the depth of accumulation. I think I'd have to have at least 10' accumulation before I start getting reception issues... ;)

When I first got my LN52A650 Samsung LCD TV, 13.1(fox) came in fine with my outdoor antenna. I did a rescan a few days ago and 13.1 is no longer there. However, 13 (non-HD) comes in fine. I thought there was a problem with the broadcast station so I checked my ATI tuner card which is connected to my computer and 13.1 is available. I also check my Panasonic Plasma and 13.1 comes in fine on that TV too with 88% signal..

Weird thing is all other HD comes in fine (strength at least 90% and above on all HD channels - komo, king, kiro, kong, 22.1 and 11.1). Anyone else experiencing similar problems with 13.1?

Samsung phone tech support is telling me I need to contact the TV station and that the tv tuner is fine.

Thanks

I have 3 receivers all decoding KCPQ Digital but since yesterday one would not pull in a signal by alais name 13.1 or 13.2. I can still get the station at the true RF address and am watching 18.1 and 18.2. Why not try rescanning these?

I tried a rescan many times already and KCPQ 13.1 is not available. I'll try rescanning a few more times after the snow clears up. I seriously think there is something wrong with my ATSC tuner.

I have 3 receivers all decoding KCPQ Digital but since yesterday one would not pull in a signal by alais name 13.1 or 13.2. I can still get the station at the true RF address and am watching 18.1 and 18.2. Why not try rescanning these?

Thanks!!! 13.1 is now 18.3 for me.

Sounds like bad PSIP data.

I tried a rescan many times already and KCPQ 13.1 is not available. I'll try rescanning a few more times after the snow clears up. I seriously think there is something wrong with my ATSC tuner.

It's not your tuner. I have a Sammy 37A550 and it is doing the same thing. It is a Channel 13 issue. Now on 18-3 and 18-4.

Richard

In the Seattle Times today, there was a near full page ad from Comcast stating "Introducing the best thing to happen to TV since HD FREE HD"

<sarcasm>Well, it's about time someone offered Free HD</sarcasm>

Actually what Comcast means by free is that if you sign up for Triple Play, they won't charge you the extra HD fee.

I like our version of free HD better.

It's not your tuner. I have a Sammy 37A550 and it is doing the same thing. It is a Channel 13 issue. Now on 18-3 and 18-4.

Richard

i think it's a samsung issue then because the panny scans in 13.1 and a pc card i have scans in 13.1 as well.

I too a Sammy, the LN-T4042H. As of Christmas Eve I no longer get PSIP data like EPG (on both my Sammy and a DTV converter box) so my 13.1 & 13.2 are now 18.3 & 18.4. The 18.3/18.4 channels are also no longer listed as "English", just "undefined" in language.

Sent off emails to both Samsung and KCPQ. I'm tempted to call KCPQ's 24/7 line regarding transmission issues. You can find it at:

http://www.q13fox.com/pages/about_us

if you can justify the call. I'm still going to try the email route first.

I too a Sammy, the LN-T4042H. As of Christmas Eve I no longer get PSIP data like EPG (on both my Sammy and a DTV converter box) so my 13.1 & 13.2 are now 18.3 & 18.4. The 18.3/18.4 channels are also no longer listed as "English", just "undefined" in language

Weird. I'm using a Samsung DTB-H260F and an Echostar TR-40, and the only odd thing I can see is that the language is "undefined". Other than that, everything is fine, including channel number and EPG data.

Weird. I'm using a Samsung DTB-H260F and an Echostar TR-40, and the only odd thing I can see is that the language is "undefined". Other than that, everything is fine, including channel number and EPG data.

EPG not showing anything on my sammy ln52a650 on channel 18.3. However, epg comes in fine on 13.1 with my media center pc using an ati turner card.

Weird. I'm using a Samsung DTB-H260F and an Echostar TR-40, and the only odd thing I can see is that the language is "undefined". Other than that, everything is fine, including channel number and EPG data.

Is the "Undefined" language on your Sammy or your Echostar? I only have it on my Sammy. My converter box still has no EPG info, only resolution and audio type (which I believe is inherent to view/hear the channel).

EPG not showing anything on my sammy ln52a650 on channel 18.3. However, epg comes in fine on 13.1 with my media center pc using an ati turner card.

I'm not familiar with Media Center PCs (regular XP on DV9000), but could your media center be using the internet as a backup (if is has internet access)?

No word back from KCPQ or Samsung. Guess we can only complain after the transition when all major stations are *supposed* to be finished transitioning over.

I'm not familiar with Media Center PCs (regular XP on DV9000), but could your media center be using the internet as a backup (if is has internet access)?

No word back from KCPQ or Samsung. Guess we can only complain after the transition when all major stations are *supposed* to be finished transitioning over.[/QUOTE]

You're right, the epg from my media center actually comes from the internet.

I did some researching and found out that 13.1, which is 18.3 on samsungs, is going to be 13 after the switch to full digital. So we'll just have to wait and see...

Currently I am using an outdoor antenna to watch Channels 4,5,7,9,11 & 13 using analogue signals and the reception is great. I just purchased and installed a converter box. Without making any changes to the antenna, I can not pick up digital signals for these channels. I live in Gig Harbor which is 27 miles from the transmitter tower. I check to be sure that the antenna is pointing directly at the tower.:confused:
Are they currently using a low powered signal which will be higher after February? Are they using VHF or UHF now and will it change in February.
I’m frustrated that this easy digital switch over has not gone so easy. I have however picked up several channel 28’s that I do not care to watch.
I am not sure weather I should replace my antenna, amplify the signals or just what I need to do to make this daxx thing work!
Any suggestions on how I can pick up your signal better?
Thanks for your help
:mad:

Sounds like you have a VHF-only antenna. After the transition date, you'll likely get 9, 11, and 13 as they'll return to their VHF frequencies, but 4, 5, and 7 are on UHF and will remain there.

Antenna replacement will likely be required.

- Trip

Check http://www.antennaweb.org and http://www.tvfool.com, which can give you good information on the station locations and expected signal levels at your location.

The antenna I am currently using is both a VHF/UHF antenna. I've had it for about 15+ years and it has worked great all that time using the usual analogue signals.
I am finding that now that I am attempting to pick up the same stations using the converter box these signals do not appear to be strong enough. I suppose it's time to buy a new antenna and update the cable as well. Most likely I will also add a pre-amp near the antenna...
Thanks for your comments and suggestions.:)

Is the "Undefined" language on your Sammy or your Echostar?

Just with the Sammy. I'm not sure how to display the language on the TR-40, if it's even possible.

You're right, the epg from my media center actually comes from the internet.

I did some researching and found out that 13.1, which is 18.3 on samsungs, is going to be 13 after the switch to full digital. So we'll just have to wait and see...

Just with the Sammy. I'm not sure how to display the language on the TR-40, if it's even possible.

Can't wait until post-transition for all these little kinks to work out.

The antenna I am currently using is both a VHF/UHF antenna. I've had it for about 15+ years and it has worked great all that time using the usual analogue signals.
I am finding that now that I am attempting to pick up the same stations using the converter box these signals do not appear to be strong enough. I suppose it's time to buy a new antenna and update the cable as well. Most likely I will also add a pre-amp near the antenna...
Thanks for your comments and suggestions.:)

Before you make a purchase, maybe you can ask a neighbor how their reception is with their converter box? Maybe you can ask to try your converter box connected to their antenna?

Hey Everyone,
Looking for some assistance in picking a new antenna. I currently have a "lovely" Radio Shack, VU-190 XR.

Antenna:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103087

I not too happy with it....:( It came with the house.

So, I'm looking to upgrade to something decent and with a terrific range. I have a Antenna Rotator and the antenna also has a Radio Shack Amp.

Amp:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103094

Like I said, these items came with the house and I don't mind keeping them if these are the best options for me....or if there is something better out there.

My goal is to get Seattle HD and maybe Canada HD? :)

On a side note....if I do need a different antenna....can I use the existing antenna for a police scanner/FM Radio?

Thanks for your help everyone!

SirChaos

Attached is my TVFool Information on Distance and Direction.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103094[/url]

Like I said, these items came with the house and I don't mind keeping them if these are the best options for me....or if there is something better out there.

My goal is to get Seattle HD and maybe Canada HD? :)

On a side note....if I do need a different antenna....can I use the existing antenna for a police scanner/FM Radio?

Thanks for your help everyone!

SirChaos

Attached is my TVFool Information on Distance and Direction.

Not much improvement with an upgrade - keep it.

[FONT="Tahoma"]I currently have a "lovely" Radio Shack, VU-190 XR.

Antenna:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103087
I have a Antenna Rotator and the antenna also has a Radio Shack Amp.

Amp:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103094


Keep the antenna and amp. If they work well enough to bring in all the Seattle locals, then the previous owner has saved you alot of work. I sincerely doubt you will be able to get Canadian HD, but if you do let us know.

Keep the antenna and amp. If they work well enough to bring in all the Seattle locals, then the previous owner has saved you alot of work. I sincerely doubt you will be able to get Canadian HD, but if you do let us know.

The antenna is okay, but that amp is horrible for DTV. If you still have the receipt, I'd return it, or give it to someone only interested in amplifying analog TV or FM stations.

No word back from KCPQ or Samsung. Guess we can only complain after the transition when all major stations are *supposed* to be finished transitioning over.

As of this morning my Samsung LN-T2332H is correctly displaying KCPQ on 13.1 and 13.2 again, with EPG (if you can call it that).

No word from KCPQ, but I sent a message to my contact there.

As of this morning my Samsung LN-T2332H is correctly displaying KCPQ on 13.1 and 13.2 again, with EPG (if you can call it that).

No word from KCPQ, but I sent a message to my contact there.


Yup, the LN52A650 is now getting egp on 13.1, 18.3 is gone.

weird...

Noticed NBC weather (5.2) has been replaced by KING SD, a standard definition version of their HD channel 5.1.

Noticed NBC weather (5.2) has been replaced by KING SD, a standard definition version of their HD channel 5.1.
NBC Weather Plus has been shut down. King will replace it with Universal Sports Network Friday January 2, 2009 at about 11am.

http://www.king5.com/weather/wxplus.html

Yup, the LN52A650 is now getting egp on 13.1, 18.3 is gone.

weird...

Voting for "weird" as well. Got mine back yesterday morning (at least, I noticed it then) and it's still 13.1 now. Oh well, hope it stays fixed.

If you are looking for another data point, my ChannelMaster 7000 converter box also lost 13.1 and 13.2 but I did find 18.1 and 18.2. In the last couple of days 13.1 and 13.2 showed up again.

Is it possible that the PSIP information was more effected by the weather over the longer distance?

NBC Weather Plus has been shut down. King will replace it with Universal Sports Network Friday January 2, 2009 at about 11am.

http://www.king5.com/weather/wxplus.html

Cool. I watched it for a while last night, and it wasn't too bad. My only wish is that KING could do a better job with the picture resolution. It's crappy on my 27" SDTV. Must be just about unwatchable on a big HDTV.

Looking to continue watching TV OTA after February. I borrowed an hdtv from Costco but got no channels. We get fuzzy 4, 5, 7, 9, and 11 in regular TV with rabbit ears.

this is our latitude and longitude.

Latitude: 47.613120
Longitude: -122.315264

address: 1306 E. Union, 98122

height is 20ft.

RCA rabbit ears model "ant: 401"

we have a big hill between us and the the madison towers. we could see the queen anne towers if we could look through about 20 walls. Our window faces South.

Any idea whether my "test" with the borrowed hdtv is accurate? with this there are no channels in digital available.

Thanks!

Cool. I watched it for a while last night, and it wasn't too bad. My only wish is that KING could do a better job with the picture resolution. It's crappy on my 27" SDTV. Must be just about unwatchable on a big HDTV.




To do so would steal bits from the main 5.1 channel. According to my EyeTV application (using my HDHomeRun tuner),

5.1 ~ 16.5 Mbps
5.2 ~ 2.5 Mbps

KIRO runs a bit more bandwidth on 7.2 (resulting in less for 7.1). Too bad the standards were set before MPEG4 became available.

If you are looking for another data point, my ChannelMaster 7000 converter box also lost 13.1 and 13.2 but I did find 18.1 and 18.2. In the last couple of days 13.1 and 13.2 showed up again.

Is it possible that the PSIP information was more effected by the weather over the longer distance?

It does seem odd this lack of PSIP occurred during our recent snow storm. At the peak of it for the Seattle area, we lost PSIP while now after most of the snow has subsided in Seattle, we get PSIP back.

Odd that weather would affect just the PSIP data though. You should expect to see corruption in the video but as far as I could tell, the video and audio came through no worse than before the snow storm. I think perhaps KCPQ were testing some equipment in preparation for the cut-over. Or perhaps the snow took out some broadcast equipment and they had to make do with backups that weren't sending out the PSIP as the old ones did.

Could be as simple as the guy who maintains the PSIP didn't have snow tires.

Looking to continue watching TV OTA after February. I borrowed an hdtv from Costco but got no channels. We get fuzzy 4, 5, 7, 9, and 11 in regular TV with rabbit ears.

this is our latitude and longitude.

Latitude: 47.613120
Longitude: -122.315264

address: 1306 E. Union, 98122

height is 20ft.

RCA rabbit ears model "ant: 401"

we have a big hill between us and the the madison towers. we could see the queen anne towers if we could look through about 20 walls. Our window faces South.

Any idea whether my "test" with the borrowed hdtv is accurate? with this there are no channels in digital available.

Thanks!
I had a friend who recently moved to the capitol hill area. About a block away from the KMYQ, KSTW, KCTS antennas. Someone on this forum recommended a Silver Sensor for that area. My friend had limited success but they did get some digital television. You may have better (or worse) luck with this particular indoor antenna. Let us know how it works out.

I think there may be some confusion about hill tops. 1306 E Union is 5 (ish) blocks from the KCTS/KMYQ/KSTW towers located at 18th & Madison. There is no "large hill" in the way. There is a pretty fair knob between that location and Queen Anne.

With all of that said and as I type this, I am sitting in my office at the KCTS tower site with a paper clip jammed into the 'F' connector on my Hauppauge HVR-950. With this arrangement I get all of the Seattle based digital stations. Using the same arrangement I get all of the Seattle based DTV stations at the Piecora's pizza at 14th and Madison.

I've got another TV up here with a Silver Sensor attached to it that also receives all of the Seattle based digital stations, admitadtly, some of them better than others.

Has anyone else lost KCPQ 13-1 and 13-2 tonight? I can watch via DirecTV, but OTA am getting no signal since about 8:15pm.

Found this interesting:

http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=95767

Looks like Fisher/KOMO are jumping back onto the "add-a-subchannel" bandwagon.

Found this interesting:

http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=95767

Looks like Fisher/KOMO are jumping back onto the "add-a-subchannel" bandwagon.

Hmmm, let's see... that will decrease the bandwidth available for their main channel (ABC HD), so Comcast won't have to compress it as much!
Sorry...:p

I just bought a HDTV from Criagslist last night, I'm wondering what I might be able to pick up and what kind of antenna I should get. Maybe somebody could help me out? I've got a bad feeling because there's a 400ft hill about 1 mile south of me. I am on the 3rd story though, so the antenna will be a ways off the ground.

Here's my exact location in Kenmore:

Latitude : 47.754638
Longitude: -122.228890

17512 83rd Pl NE, Kenmore, WA 98028

*******/oQdJ <--link to google map

Greetings!

I have been lurking here for a while and am getting ready to embark on getting our house setup to use the tv antenna we have on the roof.

I had a few questions though :)

We have the following hardware installed:

1) winegard HD-7084
2) Channel Master mast mounted preamp (Not sure which one)
3) Antenna Rotator

Currently these are connected directly to a 52 inch panasonic hi def plasma.

We are located in covington, Washington.

So far we have had pretty good luck picking up stations. We watch alot of PBS and have had problems with 9 digital but 28 comes in really strong if we reaim the antenna about 10 degrees off from the stations seattle affiliates 4,5 and 7.

So for the questions :)

1) Is this a pretty decent setup for picking up the seattle affiliates?
2) Will the digital transistion affect the signals into covington ie: ERP decreases, the transmitters will be at a different altitude for any of PBS stations?

This summer we are planning to rewire the house so all the rooms can use the antenna. We have been told that doing this will cause significant signal loss. Is their a way to mitigate the loss? Right their are about 3 splitters between the antenna and the farthest room. This is why we have it directly connected to the main tv :)

Part of the rewiring will be to pull all the cable to one termination point in the garage and not split it. So each room will have one piece of coax that is unsplit that terminates at our media distribution panel.

The antenna will come directly to the media distribution panel. Could we use a distribution amplifier? What would be the best way to not have signal loss?

Any hints on wiring the house for the antenna.

I can also tell you we pickup 13 analog which has some good shows. I think its located in canada somewhere.

Thanks for all your help!

bah not 13 thats fox doh! I meant KVOS :)

Biggest hint on the house re-wiring project is to terminate any unused coax with coax-terminator caps (available at RadioShack and elsewhere, +/- two for a dollar). Splitters cause loss, but unterminated coax causes WAY more problems.

I have a similar setup to what you contemplate for the summer (each room serviced by its own length of cable going to two centrally located splitters (ganged together) which are connected to the antenna line). I used to have issues with weak and variable signal levels (worse on certain channels). I was thinking, like you, that I might need a distribution amplifier. After tweaking just about everything else, I finally got around to installing terminator caps on the unused coax lines. The difference was striking. Signal strength on all channels improved and leveled out (stopped being variable).

Invest pennies in terminator caps before you do anything else.

Also, a question: Does the Channel Master amp have separate inputs for UHF and VHF? Can you open it up and does it have an internal switch on the circuit board for "combined" or "separate" UHF/VHF?

If so, then the only other thing which comes to mind is you could invest in a separate UHF- or VHF-only antenna to go after whichever set of frequencies that Wineguard isn't as good with (just by looking at it, I would guess it's better with VHF than UHF, but I could be wrong). When thinking about which channels you have a hard time pulling in with the Wineguard, remember that the physical channel used by a broadcaster may be different from the virtual one which shows up on your TV set and that VHF tops out at channel 13.

Has anyone else lost KCPQ 13-1 and 13-2 tonight? I can watch via DirecTV, but OTA am getting no signal since about 8:15pm.


I too, noticed that. Right when I got ready to watch "House" and "Fringe".

Have not checked today yet; is it back?

I just bought a HDTV from Criagslist last night, I'm wondering what I might be able to pick up and what kind of antenna I should get. Maybe somebody could help me out? I've got a bad feeling because there's a 400ft hill about 1 mile south of me. I am on the 3rd story though, so the antenna will be a ways off the ground.

Here's my exact location in Kenmore:

Latitude : 47.754638
Longitude: -122.228890

17512 83rd Pl NE, Kenmore, WA 98028

*******/oQdJ <--link to google map

I plotted your line-of-sight in my topo program to the Seattle towers and it is not good. You're behind the Juanita hump about 400 feet higher than your house. Never say "never" but it looks bad, sorry to say. On a brighter note, you could get ch 13 and the stuff on the east side pretty easily.

Figure on cable or dish if you want HD.

Alright, thanks quarque. I thought that might be the case, I won't waist my money on some kind of fancy antenna then.

Greetings!


We are located in covington, Washington.

So far we have had pretty good luck picking up stations. We watch alot of PBS and have had problems with 9 digital but 28 comes in really strong if we reaim the antenna about 10 degrees off from the stations seattle affiliates 4,5 and 7.

So for the questions :)

1) Is this a pretty decent setup for picking up the seattle affiliates?
2) Will the digital transistion affect the signals into covington ie: ERP decreases, the transmitters will be at a different altitude for any of PBS stations?

This summer we are planning to rewire the house so all the rooms can use the antenna. We have been told that doing this will cause significant signal loss. Is their a way to mitigate the loss? Right their are about 3 splitters between the antenna and the farthest room. This is why we have it directly connected to the main tv :)

Part of the rewiring will be to pull all the cable to one termination point in the garage and not split it. So each room will have one piece of coax that is unsplit that terminates at our media distribution panel.

The antenna will come directly to the media distribution panel. Could we use a distribution amplifier? What would be the best way to not have signal loss?

Any hints on wiring the house for the antenna.

I can also tell you we pickup 13 analog which has some good shows. I think its located in canada somewhere.

Thanks for all your help!

9, 11 and 13 will be transitioning their digital signals to the old analog frequencies, so you may get a better signal. KCTS will run some tests before the actual transition, so you can see how it might look: http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=preview_message&fn=Link&id=955jeo91eygx8j7z2z3vgkj29l0np&ssid=9943&t=3

http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2009-01-08-digital-tv-transition_N.htm

Obama team urges delay in digital TV transition


Great...just great. ANOTHER delay on the way. Saw on the NBC Nightly News last night that the Gov't has "run out" of $40 coupons from its program. How is that even possible?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2009-01-08-digital-tv-transition_N.htmObama team urges delay in digital TV transition

Great...just great. ANOTHER delay on the way. Saw on the NBC Nightly News last night that the Gov't has "run out" of $40 coupons from its program. How is that even possible?If they're gonna make yet another extension for the shutoff, Congress and the FCC should force analog stations to cut power 75% to 90%. That would at least send an unmistakeable message that analog is being phased out.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2009-01-08-digital-tv-transition_N.htm

Obama team urges delay in digital TV transition


Great...just great. ANOTHER delay on the way. Saw on the NBC Nightly News last night that the Gov't has "run out" of $40 coupons from its program. How is that even possible?
The coupon program has been really smoothly run, in my opinion. Here's the latest statistics from their website https://www.dtv2009.gov/Stats.aspx

In short, they budgeted for 33.5 million coupons and they have had in excess of 47 million coupon requests. If I'm reading the site correctly, they have re-issued most of the 13+ million coupons that expired so far to other requestors.

The coupon program has been really smoothly run, in my opinion. Here's the latest statistics from their website https://www.dtv2009.gov/Stats.aspx

In short, they budgeted for 33.5 million coupons and they have had in excess of 47 million coupon requests. If I'm reading the site correctly, they have re-issued most of the 13+ million coupons that expired so far to other requestors.

During the snowstorm Sunday evening I lost my satellite signal, so I figured I would watch OTA. On of my Directv receivers was on a UPS and everything worked fine. The other wasn't and rebooted. Since it couldn't see a satellite it wouldn't complete the boot process so I couldn't watch OTA either (it's a HD receiver but hooked to an analog TV). I could still watch recorded content, however.

I decided maybe getting a converter would be a good idea after all, so applied on Monday, which is the day they ran out. There are apparently a lot of coupons which haven't yet expired, so I may still get one. I also bought another UPS :)

I wouldn't be surprised to see Congress allocate more money to the converter program fairly quickly--they are tossing bucks at everything else these days.

I was channel surfing this afternoon, and it seems that KCTS has removed Create from 9-3. There's no branding other than "PBS" and a "KCTS9" bug in the corner. The last show - Great Performances - and the current show - Carnegie Hall - match the that of the EAST coast feed of PBS-X.

Just a heads up. If this website is still up to date

http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=preview_message&fn=Link&id=955jeo91eygx8j7z2z3vgkj29l0np&ssid=9943&t=3

KCTS will be transmitting digital signal on VHF 9.4 tomorrow morning (Monday 3:15am to 4:45am)

I will be up during the test to sheck my signal and antennas.
the test will be from approx. 3:15 am to 4:45 am on jan 12

Mike

I just saw an announcement on KONG saying that they will cease broadcasting the analog signal on February 6.

I will be up during the test to sheck my signal and antennas.
the test will be from approx. 3:15 am to 4:45 am on jan 12

Mike


after checking it out digital channel 9 came in perfect with my channel master 4221 here in downtown tacoma. Had no dropouts or any orther issues.

after checking it out digital channel 9 came in perfect with my channel master 4221 here in downtown tacoma. Had no dropouts or any orther issues.

I tried with my Radio Shack V/U rooftop antenna and couldn't get anything with either my Vizio HD set or my HDHomeRun tuner. The analog and UHF digital come in fine, however. Hopefully Directv will be carrying KCTS in HD soon.

My results weren't as good

Channelmaster 4221 antenna
Channelmaster 7000 digital to analog tuner

Analog 9: static
digital 9-1: 41 remapped to 9: black screen, high pitched whine
digital 9-2: 41 remapped to 9: v-me
digital 9-3: 41 remapped to 9: Create
digital 9-4: nothing, wouldn't tune

Does anyone have any recommendations for a good distribution amplifier? Last night we did a test and plugged in our antenna to a radio shack four port amplifier. We capped off two of the outs and then plugged in our main TV and the office tv (both direct runs with no splitters) We lost about 10-15 percent on the signal meter of the downstairs tv.

When we dont use the amp they both work fine. What should I be looking for when choosing a distribution method for multiple tv's connected to a rooftop antenna?

OK, ya ever have one of those days when you should have stayed in bed? This is one of those days. I program all of the encoding equipment for KCTS. I also handle all of the encoders for our sister station in Yakima (KYVE).

Last night we also shuffled the major/minor channel alignement on KYVE to match that on KCTS. Since this involved removing and replacing encoders and rearranging channel tables and we had issues with that activity the test of the KCTS digital transmitter was not monitored as closely as it should have been.

In short the transmitter was on the air and functioning normally. The issue was that due to an incorrectly programed transport encoder there was no data stream on it until about 0440 this morning. This would cause most tuners to not even notice it and those that did wouldn't have had a picture to recover.

Once I corrected the problem, the thing sat right up and barked. Indeed a poster mentioned earlier that he saw it in Tacoma.

I have egg on my face and I apologize profusely for this error, especially to those who sacrificed sleep to have a look. I have saved all configuration files both in the unit and in a USB drive so that this will not happen again.

Our next scheduled test is Monday morning January 26th from approximatly 3:15 - 4:45. This coincides with the test of KSTW channel 11 from roughly the same Capital Hill site.

Tim Schall
KCTS TV

Does anyone have any recommendations for a good distribution amplifier? Last night we did a test and plugged in our antenna to a radio shack four port amplifier. We capped off two of the outs and then plugged in our main TV and the office tv (both direct runs with no splitters) We lost about 10-15 percent on the signal meter of the downstairs tv.

When we dont use the amp they both work fine. What should I be looking for when choosing a distribution method for multiple tv's connected to a rooftop antenna?

I have experience using two Radioshack distribution amps and two Channel Master amps. The first thing to consider is that maybe a distribution amp isn't required unless you have really long runs and are experiencing signal problems. My experience was that an amp could make things worse because it could be over driven by a strong input signal. I found the RS amps were particularly sensitive to this problem. The best results I had were from adding a preamp just below the antenna to overcome the long cable run (200ft) from the antenna to the house.

I found the CM amps to be superior (I have a CM3414 and a CM3404 - both four output) in providing good output in spite of strong input signals. They also are relatively low noise. Construction of the CM amps is much superior to the RS amps.

In short the transmitter was on the air and functioning normally. The issue was that due to an incorrectly programed transport encoder there was no data stream on it until about 0440 this morning. This would cause most tuners to not even notice it and those that did wouldn't have had a picture to recover.



Good to know. I tried to tune in last night but got no programming, etc. though there was a signal showing on my Zenith 901. I wasn't looking forward to another antenna project. When 11 did a test awhile ago I had no problem picking their signal up so was surprised when 9 wasn't there.

Tim, that explains my result. (3:45 AM: my box saw good signal strength on the VHF 9-4 signal but would not tune it in.) Thanks for clarification. I'll set my alarm on the 26th and try again.

Per Tim, both ch 9 and ch 11 are doing their next VHF test on the 26th. Good to know. How about ch 13? Anyone know what is ch 13's VHF testing schedule? I rarely get ch 13 to come in over UHF and I am hoping for better result via VHF.

Thanks for the update, Tim. I couldn't figure out how UHF would work that well and VHF wouldn't decode at all. But hey, we've all had those kind of days. I'll check again on 1/26.

Can anyone recommend a good tv antenna installer in the Seattle/Kent area?

Wow, that was a cool trick. I did what you said and I now get awesome NBC, FOX HD... Cool, I'll play with antenna but this'll definitely solve my football HD problems. Thanks!

Don't forget, this only works for now. When Comcast moves the rest of their line-up (30-99) to digital (if you have clear QAM, you can see the transition already) they will probably encrypt the higher channels and this is when you will need their DTA box. Oh joy, more hardware! :mad:

Can anyone recommend a good tv antenna installer in the Seattle/Kent area?

Send a private message to "DanKurts". He's well respected in our area. He's usually quite active in this forum, but has been quiet for the past few weeks.

I suspect Dan is drunk on the technology at CES...

I suspect Dan is drunk on the technology at CES...


quarque
I wish!
Been glancing at the forum, but super busy. Naturally, everyone is waiting until the 11th hour to fix their reception and antenna problems. Been getting lots of calls. If someone has a specific question or wants a quick answer, just call, 206-794-3993 or pm me.
Now if we could just get about 4 months of 70 degree days, no rain, and 36 hour days.....
Dan

Normally I can only get this channel very sporadically, and even then it's not usually watchable for very long. However, lately it's been coming in all the time with good signal strength.
Have they upped their signal? Or are we just in a long period of the correct weather conditions?

Normally I can only get this channel very sporadically, and even then it's not usually watchable for very long. However, lately it's been coming in all the time with good signal strength.
Have they upped their signal? Or are we just in a long period of the correct weather conditions?

They do have an application in to up their ERP to 100kW (from the current 45kW), but no CP's been issued yet: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=kbtc

Normally I can only get this channel very sporadically, and even then it's not usually watchable for very long. However, lately it's been coming in all the time with good signal strength.
Have they upped their signal? Or are we just in a long period of the correct weather conditions?

Might have been the weather as well. While I do receive KBTCDT consistently (I live a bit north of Redmond), I was also able to received KCKA (DT channel 19) on Saturday. The programming seems to be the same between these 2.

But it was gone again as of yesterday evening.

quarque
I wish!
Been glancing at the forum, but super busy. Naturally, everyone is waiting until the 11th hour to fix their reception and antenna problems. Been getting lots of calls. If someone has a specific question or wants a quick answer, just call, 206-794-3993 or pm me.
Now if we could just get about 4 months of 70 degree days, no rain, and 36 hour days.....
Dan

Hi Dan!
I'm back home from the frigid Northeast after doing a big DTV transmission project in MA. During the final countdown through February 18th, if you get swamped by folks needing reception/installation help, I'd be happy to jump in the fray. Just shoot me an E-mail to Kelly@dtvrules.com and I will forward my phone number.

KOMO has been broadcasting both Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy in 16:9 HD for a few weeks, but today they are both 4:3. I wonder if somebody forgot to throw a switch today.

Hi Dan!
I'm back home from the frigid Northeast after doing a big DTV transmission project in MA. During the final countdown through February 18th, if you get swamped by folks needing reception/installation help, I'd be happy to jump in the fray. Just shoot me an E-mail to Kelly@dtvrules.com and I will forward my phone number.

Kelly
Welcome back. Our weather may get wierd, but they really get extremes.
Now, if you need help in Hawaii, call !
I'll probably give you a shout a some point.
Throw another log on the fire and warm up.
Dan

KOMO has been broadcasting both Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy in 16:9 HD for a few weeks, but today they are both 4:3. I wonder if somebody forgot to throw a switch today.
I noticed, too, that KOMO's Inauguration coverage went from HD to SD/4.3 at some point yesterday afternoon.

I don't know about you, but I LOVE IT when FSN has to bump sporting events to Digital Subchannels, like for tomorrow night's Gonzaga game:

(I'd post the link, but I'm new here)

Gonzaga Vs. Santa Clara Thursday On RTN
Watch Gonzaga and Santa Clara in Men's College Basketball action -- Thursday on RTN Northwest.

The Bulldogs battle the Broncos at 6 p.m.

Catch all the hoop action live on Comcast Channel 117 or KIRO digital channel 7.2.

On Thursday, Jan. 22, see Gonzaga battle Pepperdine at 6 p.m.

My TR40cra (DTVPal) is picking up whiffs of CBUT-DT. I can see that it's broadcast on Channel 58, freq. 737000, and re-maps to 2.1. Not enough signal for a picture, but I'm not done trying... :)
Interestingly, my "garage" TR40 picks it up, but not the one in my living room. I wonder if cold has a positive effect on the tuner.:rolleyes:

Just a reminder. KCTS will have it's shiny new Rohde & Schwarz digital transmitter on physical channel 9 for testing this monday morning, January 26th, from 3AM to 5AM.

This will be our final channel assignement post transition.

During this test our current digital transmitter on channel 41 will remain on the air. If you scan your tuners then 9-1, 9-2 & 9-3 will be on physical channel 41 and 9-4 will be on physical channel 9. I'm interested in how the signals compare at various locations.

Also, as of this writing, channel 11 plans to be operating digitally on physical channel 11 from 3AM - 6AM. This may be the only time before the transition that you will have to test reception of both signals at the same time.

Tim Schall

My location is 47°40'17.38"N, 122°30'47.79"W

Here's my setup:

Two rooftop antennas: a RadioShack VU-90XR and an 8-bay CM4228. The long axis of the roof is East-West. The 8-bay is attached to a rotor on the east end of the roof, which has a great view of downtown Seattle and a tree obstructed view of Gold Mountain (Fox) and points South. The VU-90XR is attached at the west end of the roof, which has a better view of Gold Mountain and points South. Both antennas are connected via identical lengths of coax to a CM7777 (in the attic). The CM7777 has separate UHF/VHF selected, the 8-bay on the UHF input, the VU-90XR on the VHF input, and the FM trap OUT (the coax provides signal to an FM tuner). The CM7777 output goes to two 1-4 splitters, which are ganged together to essentially make one 1-7 splitter (located at ground level). The seven lines then run back out to the various rooms. I have terminators on all unused coax terminals.

With the 8-bay oriented toward downtown Seattle, I presently get a wide range of UHF digital stations with strong reception (80% or greater), from 4 to 51, with the exception of FOX-DT, on digital channel 18, and PBS DT-28, both of which are less than 50% when the 8-bay is on the east end of the roof. I've experimented with putting the 8-bay on the west end of the roof, in which location I can pull in DT-18 and DT-28, but it requires using the rotor to switch to the Seattle stations and, even then, KOMO-DT is problematic.

I've been hoping that the 2/17/09 transition and FOX's move back down to channel 13 for their digital broadcast would let me add FOX to the OTA lineup.

With that in mind, I thought I'd use the existing analogue broadcasts on 9, 11, and 13 to find a "sweet spot" for my VHF antenna which would allow me to pull in all three without putting the rotor on the VHF antenna. I thought I'd find this sweet spot and then check it this weekend with at least the digital tests on 9 and 11.

Here's where my question comes in. I find that when my analogue TV is connected to the coax system, analog channels 11 and 13 are difficult to reconcile with one "sweet spot" (9 comes in pretty much regardless of antenna orientation). HOWEVER, if I touch the analog antenna input to the coax shield (instead of inserting it inside the coax connector, I touch it to the metal connector on the outside), I get all the analog channels 4 - 16 VERY well. Intrigued, I then tried touching the antenna input leading to a DTV converter box to the shield, but found that the UHF digital channels were weak.

It's like instead of using the VU-90XR for a VHF antenna (which apparently is too directional to pull in both 11 and 13), I should just be using the coax shielding. But, for UHF, I still should use the existing setup.

What's up with the coax shielding apparently acting as a great VHF antenna? Does this indicate that something has gone wrong somewhere? Is my VHF signal somehow being sent into the coax shielding?

If there's nothing wrong (if the shielding just happens to make a great VHF antenna) is there a way to use the coax shielding for VHF instead of the VU-90XR?

quarque
I wish!
Been glancing at the forum, but super busy. Naturally, everyone is waiting until the 11th hour to fix their reception and antenna problems. Been getting lots of calls. If someone has a specific question or wants a quick answer, just call, 206-794-3993 or pm me.
Now if we could just get about 4 months of 70 degree days, no rain, and 36 hour days.....
Dan
Hi, Dan:
I currently have three TVs, all fed via single outside, rotatable UHF/VHF antenna. Two of the TVs have HDD recorders, each with a seven day EPG. All three each have the Zenith DTT-901 converter box installed and everything is working, giving me excellant OTA reception.
Question: After Feb, 2009, will I still be able to enjoy the seven day EPG from each of the two existing recorders, or, will I be stuck with Zenith's limited EPG?
If so, could I replace two of the TT-901s each with a Zinwell ZAT-970A?

Thanks for your time with this...
George

I've got a friend that lives on the east side of Mercer Island (almost the very south end) and he's convinced the hills will block out any reception from Seattle. Has anybody in this forum got any experience good or bad with trying to get reception in this area? Thanks in advance.

Hi, Dan:
I currently have three TVs, all fed via single outside, rotatable UHF/VHF antenna. Two of the TVs have HDD recorders, each with a seven day EPG. All three each have the Zenith DTT-901 converter box installed and everything is working, giving me excellant OTA reception.
Question: After Feb, 2009, will I still be able to enjoy the seven day EPG from each of the two existing recorders, or, will I be stuck with Zenith's limited EPG?
If so, could I replace two of the TT-901s each with a Zinwell ZAT-970A?

Thanks for your time with this...
George
Since Dan's a busy guy, I'll take a shot at answering.

You haven't mentioned where you are getting the scheduling data (EPG) from on your two HDD recorders. If the EPG that you are getting is for analog NTSC over the air channels, then it is possible that they will stop providing EPG for those channels once the analog channels shut down. If the EPG that you are getting is for digital ATSC over the air channels, then you should see no disruption of service. Some people actually use cable EPG scheduling because Windows Media Center doesn't provide digital ATSC EPG. I'm one of those people. I'm not expecting any disruption of service. But who iknows?

If you aren't sure whether you are getting analog NTSC scheduling information or not, here's a way to figure it out.

Do you get scheduling information for the sub-channels? Channels like 5-2 (Universal Sports), 7-2 (RTN), 9-2 (v-me)? If so, you are not getting analog NTSC over the air scheduling, so you shouldn't worry. If not, then you might lose this informtion on February 17, 2009.

Since Dan's a busy guy, I'll take a shot at answering.

You haven't mentioned where you are getting the scheduling data (EPG) from on your two HDD recorders. If the EPG that you are getting is for analog NTSC over the air channels, then it is possible that they will stop providing EPG for those channels once the analog channels shut down. If the EPG that you are getting is for digital ATSC over the air channels, then you should see no disruption of service. Some people actually use cable EPG scheduling because Windows Media Center doesn't provide digital ATSC EPG. I'm one of those people. I'm not expecting any disruption of service. But who knows?

If you aren't sure whether you are getting analog NTSC scheduling information or not, here's a way to figure it out.

Do you get scheduling information for the sub-channels? Channels like 5-2 (Universal Sports), 7-2 (RTN), 9-2 (v-me)? If so, you are not getting analog NTSC over the air scheduling, so you shouldn't worry. If not, then you might lose this informtion on February 17, 2009.

I use Windows Media Center and am receiving EPG for the primary ATSC Channels. In Media Center for Windows 7 (and TV Pack 2008), there is EPG for most of the sub channels too.

I guess there are a lot of people here in Kitsap county that are having problems receiving digital channels.
http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2009/jan/24/dtvs-better-viewing-experience-elusive-for-some
Here in the Sunnyslope area I get all the channels from Seattle when there is no wind. In the Bremerton Auto Center, I can get Ch 5, 7, 9, 13, 16, and 22 fairly good. I can also get 11 and 33 with lots of break-ups.

I use Windows Media Center and am receiving EPG for the primary ATSC Channels. In Media Center for Windows 7 (and TV Pack 2008), there is EPG for most of the sub channels too.
If yo uare using Windows Media Center pre-"TV Pack 2008" or Windows 7), then the default EPG you are getting from Zap2it is for analog NTSC channels. It is very likely that Zap2it will discontinue this listing after the digital transition. But they will continue providing digital ATSC channel information that doesn't work with the earlier versions of Windows Media Center.

So, your choices to continue receiving EPG information (if/when zap2it discontinues analog NTSC channels EPG), is to upgrade your version of Windows Media Center (to either TV Pack 2008 or Windows 7).

Or, you can use the cable channels EPG from zap2it by editing the configuration files of Windows Media Center. This will get you most of the secondary channels and it shouldn't go away after the digital transition. How to do this is discussed several months back in this thread along with a pointer to a website that describes it. Let me know if you can't find it.

If yo uare using Windows Media Center pre-"TV Pack 2008" or Windows 7), then the default EPG you are getting from Zap2it is for analog NTSC channels. It is very likely that Zap2it will discontinue this listing after the digital transition. But they will continue providing digital ATSC channel information that doesn't work with the earlier versions of Windows Media Center.

So, your choices to continue receiving EPG information (if/when zap2it discontinues analog NTSC channels EPG), is to upgrade your version of Windows Media Center (to either TV Pack 2008 or Windows 7).

Or, you can use the cable channels EPG from zap2it by editing the configuration files of Windows Media Center. This will get you most of the secondary channels and it shouldn't go away after the digital transition. How to do this is discussed several months back in this thread along with a pointer to a website that describes it. Let me know if you can't find it.

That would explain why there are no sub-channel guide listings. I remember a problem last year sometime when Zap2It changed something and I lost guide data for ch 9 and 33.

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2009/jan/24/dtvs-better-viewing-experience-elusive-for-some


Thank you for the link to this article. However, I was taken aback by this statement:

The reason the signals couldn't reach Underwood, Steve Davies of Manette TV explains, is because the digital signal is much narrower than the old analog waves.

"A lot of people who were getting the free signal aren't going to be able to get it," he said.

Analog waves beam out wider, and can more easily bounce around objects and hills, he said. Digital television signals are much more directional.

"It's like a flashlight beam," Davies said.

I think they could have just said that UHF is more important for DTV vs. the analog days where one could get by on only VHF signals.

However, UHF signals bounce better than VHF signals (which can be a negative or a positive at times). What they meant to say is that they don't "bend" (diffract) as well.

I've got a friend that lives on the east side of Mercer Island (almost the very south end) and he's convinced the hills will block out any reception from Seattle. Has anybody in this forum got any experience good or bad with trying to get reception in this area? Thanks in advance.

What does the TV Fool plot look like?

I ran a general TV Fool plot for the area and it looks like UHF signals will definitely be a problem there (at least for the stations on the other side of the hill).

I also ran a coverage area map for KING's current facility on 48. Hopefully, their application for 1000kW with a non-directional antenna will eventually be granted. The current pattern is a "peanut" shape, strong to the North and South and weak to the East and West.

Boy, this High Def stuff must be really tough on the local stations. KOMO broadcast This Week with George Stephanapolous in SD this afternoon. The show originates in HD. KOMO needs to join the 21st century.

Even better: half-way through This Week, at 4:30, KOMO ran a promo that This Week would air at 4pm.

I've got a friend that lives on the east side of Mercer Island (almost the very south end) and he's convinced the hills will block out any reception from Seattle. Has anybody in this forum got any experience good or bad with trying to get reception in this area? Thanks in advance.


zyland
Mercer Island is tough on the east side. The top is loaded with trees. Soon as you drop over the hill, your gone. Even on the top it's tough. Lots of signal, just all chopped up by the trees. Then a small breeze comes along, and the signal level and waveshape is all over the place. I did one job just south of the QFC a few blocks. Really fussy. One block west of the QFC, with a view of the city from a rooftop, signal was very strong, had to knock it down 20db to keep the tuner happy!
I would never say it's impossible, but it won't be a slam dunk. I've since turned down several jobs over there just because I know I'll get called back when the trees get larger. Rather not have unhappy people.
Thanks for answering George's EPG question. Although I have that tuner for testing, I haven't played with that option.
Dan

Thank you for the link to this article. However, I was taken aback by this statement:



I think they could have just said that UHF is more important for DTV vs. the analog days where one could get by on only VHF signals.

However, UHF signals bounce better than VHF signals (which can be a negative or a positive at times). What they meant to say is that they don't "bend" (diffract) as well.

Falcon_77
I'm not sure what Steve Davies means by digital signals are narrower, frequency or transmission patterns. In any case, it's a confusing statement. UHF doesn't like to scatter over the hills like VHF does, so in a sense, it's more like a narrow beam of light. The digital signal is anything but narrow compared to analog. It's also what makes digital reception a big problem. ALL that huge signal must arrive about the same time and about the same strength. That's where a scope or analyzer comes in. You can actually view the whole thing. If it's fairly flat, you're in. Trees and buildings can act like frequency selective attenuators or filters, though, which gives a waveshape that looks like a roller coaster or an upside down comb. And UHF definitely doesn't like to bounce. You can misaim an antenna and get a stronger reading on a receiver, giving the impression signal is bouncing. In reality, you're "nulling" the good bits against the bad and leveling out the signal waveshape, somewhat. It can be decieving. You might actually be getting much lower signal amounts, but if there's enough to lock on, you could get very high readings, and still be right on the edge of actual signal lock. A slight breeze through the tree's and you get zero.
Dan

My location is 47°40'17.38"N, 122°30'47.79"W

Here's my setup:

Two rooftop antennas: a RadioShack VU-90XR and an 8-bay CM4228. The long axis of the roof is East-West. The 8-bay is attached to a rotor on the east end of the roof, which has a great view of downtown Seattle and a tree obstructed view of Gold Mountain (Fox) and points South. The VU-90XR is attached at the west end of the roof, which has a better view of Gold Mountain and points South. Both antennas are connected via identical lengths of coax to a CM7777 (in the attic). The CM7777 has separate UHF/VHF selected, the 8-bay on the UHF input, the VU-90XR on the VHF input, and the FM trap OUT (the coax provides signal to an FM tuner). The CM7777 output goes to two 1-4 splitters, which are ganged together to essentially make one 1-7 splitter (located at ground level). The seven lines then run back out to the various rooms. I have terminators on all unused coax terminals.

With the 8-bay oriented toward downtown Seattle, I presently get a wide range of UHF digital stations with strong reception (80% or greater), from 4 to 51, with the exception of FOX-DT, on digital channel 18, and PBS DT-28, both of which are less than 50% when the 8-bay is on the east end of the roof. I've experimented with putting the 8-bay on the west end of the roof, in which location I can pull in DT-18 and DT-28, but it requires using the rotor to switch to the Seattle stations and, even then, KOMO-DT is problematic.

I've been hoping that the 2/17/09 transition and FOX's move back down to channel 13 for their digital broadcast would let me add FOX to the OTA lineup.

With that in mind, I thought I'd use the existing analogue broadcasts on 9, 11, and 13 to find a "sweet spot" for my VHF antenna which would allow me to pull in all three without putting the rotor on the VHF antenna. I thought I'd find this sweet spot and then check it this weekend with at least the digital tests on 9 and 11.

Here's where my question comes in. I find that when my analogue TV is connected to the coax system, analog channels 11 and 13 are difficult to reconcile with one "sweet spot" (9 comes in pretty much regardless of antenna orientation). HOWEVER, if I touch the analog antenna input to the coax shield (instead of inserting it inside the coax connector, I touch it to the metal connector on the outside), I get all the analog channels 4 - 16 VERY well. Intrigued, I then tried touching the antenna input leading to a DTV converter box to the shield, but found that the UHF digital channels were weak.

It's like instead of using the VU-90XR for a VHF antenna (which apparently is too directional to pull in both 11 and 13), I should just be using the coax shielding. But, for UHF, I still should use the existing setup.

What's up with the coax shielding apparently acting as a great VHF antenna? Does this indicate that something has gone wrong somewhere? Is my VHF signal somehow being sent into the coax shielding?

If there's nothing wrong (if the shielding just happens to make a great VHF antenna) is there a way to use the coax shielding for VHF instead of the VU-90XR?

Moonus
First, trying to use analog to find the sweet spot can be very confusing. It will give you a rough idea, but that's it. Don't waste a lot of time on it. When you actually get the digital signal, it could work very differently, good or bad.

Second, you most likey have a very hot signal on Seattle channels. The preamp has a lot of headroom (can output very large, clean amounts if the input is strong). That will allow you to use the antennas for analog in ways they weren't designed for. The cable WILL act like an antenna, when you don't connect it as intended. That's why you terminate the unused legs. Signal will also run down the open cable and bounce/reflect backwards. It can actually work like a trap, nulling out certain frequencies, and adding to others. Trying to use an antenna for reception that way can get very unreliable. It won't hurt anything, and if you can kluge it together, great. But it can also act wierd on the other TV's, again because of the open cable.

Third, the VU90 is fairly directional. The difference in angles between 13 and Seattle is just about enough to hit a good dead spot. Finding a sweet spot could be a real bear. Good news is adding a third antenna for the VHF would be easy. Jointenna's for VHF are cheap, and work much better at VHF frequencies. Use a ch 13 one for the VU90, and a small VHF antenna for Seattle for the others, and then couple it into your 7777 and you might have a winner.
BUT, wait for the actual changeover before investing in any more stuff. You might just luck out and get it all.
Dan

Just a reminder. KCTS will have it's shiny new Rohde & Schwarz digital transmitter on physical channel 9 for testing this monday morning, January 26th, from 3AM to 5AM.

This will be our final channel assignement post transition.

During this test our current digital transmitter on channel 41 will remain on the air. If you scan your tuners then 9-1, 9-2 & 9-3 will be on physical channel 41 and 9-4 will be on physical channel 9. I'm interested in how the signals compare at various locations.

Also, as of this writing, channel 11 plans to be operating digitally on physical channel 11 from 3AM - 6AM. This may be the only time before the transition that you will have to test reception of both signals at the same time.

Tim Schall

Tim
I'll fire up the coffee pot and hook up the meter.
Dan

The tests on both KCTS and KSTW look fine here (Eagledale, Bainbridge Island) using a RS UHV/VHF rooftop antenna. I tested with both my Vizio P42HDTV and the SiliconDust HDHomeRun networked tuner connected to my Mac Mini, neither of which have signal strength indications.

Back to bed....

Just a reminder. KCTS will have it's shiny new Rohde & Schwarz digital transmitter on physical channel 9 for testing this monday morning, January 26th, from 3AM to 5AM.

This will be our final channel assignement post transition.

During this test our current digital transmitter on channel 41 will remain on the air. If you scan your tuners then 9-1, 9-2 & 9-3 will be on physical channel 41 and 9-4 will be on physical channel 9. I'm interested in how the signals compare at various locations.

Also, as of this writing, channel 11 plans to be operating digitally on physical channel 11 from 3AM - 6AM. This may be the only time before the transition that you will have to test reception of both signals at the same time.

Tim Schall

Tim
Works.
Location, Federal Way, Twin Lakes area, N47 19 5.45 W122 22 48, 21.14 miles, 273ft Elevation, about 1 block of maybe a dozen BIG fir trees from my house north and then line of sight, Channel Master 4221 UHF only antenna, 50ft RG6 quad to box.
On my Channel Master 7000 box, reads 100% with ch41 or ch9, for what that's worth. With my Sadelco meter, ch9, seeing average of -11.5db to -12db, delta of 9db. Waveshape takes a small dip from low end of channel sweep start point, at -11db, to bottom of -18db about 25% of the way up the sweep, then climbs to a nice almost flat plateau of -9db the rest of the way. Very usable on most any box, except maybe some of the older satellite TIVO's, or my old Mitsubishi sat box. Ch41 coming in at -10db, where it always does, almost flat, delta of -3db. On my H20 Direct box, ch9-4 reads 73-78%, ch9-1 is 81%. It's not the most sensitive box, but decent. Ch9-4 was rock steady, no hiccups on either box. Not bad reception for VHF on a UHF antenna. I'm encouraged, this may work out better than I thought. Not looking forward to a bunch of do overs !

Ch11 VHF was reading about the same as their first test a few months back, -12.2 to -12.4db, delta of 10db, bit of an ugly waveshape with a few dips, but locked on solid with my CM7000 reading 100%. The last test they did, where I think they said they were putting out about 20% power, I padded the signal down to see where the bottom of sensitivity was, and it worked at 100% with -26db!! At -27db it was gone. The Zenith box was also very good, but only went to -23db. The waveshape was the same then as now, so it was working with some fairly ugly signal.
Interesting side note, my H20 box saw the ch11-22, VHF signal at 73%, almost dead steady, but came up with a blank picture, no video/audio. If it was not receivable or wouldn't lock on, like 11-1 (ch36) does during the test, an error of "searching for channel" appears, and the strength says zero%. But there definitely was a carrier on ch11 VHF, just nothing showing up, no searching error. The CM7000 showed the test video just fine. Wierd. Honestly can't remember, but I think the test picture came through okay on the sat box last time. Too tired to wait through a new sat box software upload, going to crash.
Welcome to call tomorrow if you want more info, 206-794-3993, but not before noon!
Dan

Location: Redmond, Education Hill
Antenna: Channel Master 4221
Tuner: Channel Master 7000

9-4: Signal was clean. Although I did have a question. The placard saying that this is the future home of KCTS was solid with a tone (no drop outs) but when you went to the color bars, it was a regular repeating of one second color bar (with tone), one second black screen (no tone), Was that what I was supposed to see?

11-1: Signal was clean. No drop outs on either placard or color bar scenes.

Boy, this High Def stuff must be really tough on the local stations. KOMO broadcast This Week with George Stephanapolous in SD this afternoon. The show originates in HD. KOMO needs to join the 21st century.

Even better: half-way through This Week, at 4:30, KOMO ran a promo that This Week would air at 4pm.

Yeah, I've noticed that the 5:30 ABC World News seems to be HD one day, SD the next. Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune were 16:9 for a few weeks and are back to 4:3. Perhaps there have been some equipment problems.

9-4: Signal was clean. Although I did have a question. The placard saying that this is the future home of KCTS was solid with a tone (no drop outs) but when you went to the color bars, it was a regular repeating of one second color bar (with tone), one second black screen (no tone), Was that what I was supposed to see?


Simply put, yes, that is what you were supposed to see. Our audio guy was monitoring that loop on various decoders for the purpose of testing synchronization. God knows that with all the various issues that surround that we don't want the transmitter making it any worse.

I think the government and the broadcasters can "educate" the public better than what has been done. I had a guest over the holiday from Texas and we happened to talk about the digital transition. He told me that he, and people in his circle, had applied for and bought the tuners with the coupons. But they were waiting until Feb 17th to use them!

About the change over message on TV. I wonder if it is feasible for broadcasters to supper-impose the message on their analog transmission only. Cable, satellite providers should get the digital copy without the message, same goes with ATSC. That way, only the people who needs to change get the message and you can give them a cleaer message rather than a blanket one with a lot of disclaimers (lots of ifs which is not applicable). Once in a while, when you do a transmission test, just put on the analog channel something like "You'd better get the freaking box and tune to this channel, now! Call your representatives if that doesn't work."

That said, I still think the bigger problem here is the terrain, not the box. See how busy Dan is and how many of us have/had been struggling with it, I don't expect my aunt/uncle could just put a pair of rabbit ears to the box and get the tuner to work as many of the ads led to believe.

Is anyone else noticing stutter in HD video programing on KCTS? I recently picked up a HDTV and while all the other channels receive fine, whenever KCTS has HD programing on the video stutters and then catches up with the audio. This occurs only when there is movement in the video and audio is unaffected.

Previously I had been receiving the signal via digital tuner on my MythTV box without these problems. I'm now wondering if it's a signal problem or hardware on my side. My MythTV box is down right now also so I can't simply record and compare.

Again, it's KCTS HD video only, the rest of the OTA stations work fine with HD programing.

Is anyone else noticing stutter in HD video programing on KCTS? I recently picked up a HDTV and while all the other channels receive fine, whenever KCTS has HD programing on the video stutters and then catches up with the audio. This occurs only when there is movement in the video and audio is unaffected.

Previously I had been receiving the signal via digital tuner on my MythTV box without these problems. I'm now wondering if it's a signal problem or hardware on my side. My MythTV box is down right now also so I can't simply record and compare.

Again, it's KCTS HD video only, the rest of the OTA stations work fine with HD programing.

Lemme guess, the TV is a Vizio.....

no, Samsung LN46A550. Is this more likely a decoder problem?

Yep, I saw that video stutter on ch 9 recently myself. I noticed it while watching the ch 9's broadcast of Hitchcock's North by Northwest movie just the other day. I figured it was a weather/tropo induced thing but maybe not, maybe the problem is on the ch 9 side as you say. Besides, ch 9 is usually rock solid for me. I have not noticed this stutter before. I think that I had my Apex 502 dtv converter box connected at the time.

Is anyone else noticing stutter in HD video programing on KCTS? I recently picked up a HDTV and while all the other channels receive fine, whenever KCTS has HD programing on the video stutters and then catches up with the audio. This occurs only when there is movement in the video and audio is unaffected.

Previously I had been receiving the signal via digital tuner on my MythTV box without these problems. I'm now wondering if it's a signal problem or hardware on my side. My MythTV box is down right now also so I can't simply record and compare.

Again, it's KCTS HD video only, the rest of the OTA stations work fine with HD programing.

I have this problem as well. Both my TV (Vizio) and my MythTV setup (HDHomerun and pcHDTV HD-5500) will glitch out on some KCTS programs. The current programming I have problems with is the "Make 'em Laugh: The Funny Business of America". In my case the audio garbles and the video seems to stutter or there is a complete loss of audio-video sync.

John

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601984.html

I guess we can all relax for four months until the next delay.

Actually, this also has to pass the House and then be signed by the President. Both of which are fairly likely.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601984.html

I guess we can all relax for four months until the next delay.

Actually, this also has to pass the House and then be signed by the President. Both of which are fairly likely.

One report I heard said that the stations could end their analog transmissions earlier under this legislation, if they wish to. I suspect there would be some (possibly significant) cost savings if they did so and wonder how many stations will do that.

tuquet - all good points. I wonder if anyone "official" has an estimate of the number of OTA households that will be SOL because of hills around Seattle. My guess would be around 25% will not be able to get digital OTA no matter what they do. Lots of people "live" with ghosty or poor analog. Those people will most likely have a tough time after 2/17. I just heard today that the Senate agreed to delay the switch to 6/12.

I have this problem as well. Both my TV (Vizio) and my MythTV setup (HDHomerun and pcHDTV HD-5500) will glitch out on some KCTS programs. The current programming I have problems with is the "Make 'em Laugh: The Funny Business of America". In my case the audio garbles and the video seems to stutter or there is a complete loss of audio-video sync.

John

Seeing it right now with Nova. I've uploaded a short video to show the problem. Seems to stutter every two or three seconds while audio continues to play fine.

Seeing it right now with Nova. I've uploaded a short video to show the problem. Seems to stutter every two or three seconds while audio continues to play fine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0rwneji-0

Is anyone else noticing stutter in HD video programing on KCTS? I recently picked up a HDTV and while all the other channels receive fine, whenever KCTS has HD programing on the video stutters and then catches up with the audio. This occurs only when there is movement in the video and audio is unaffected.

Previously I had been receiving the signal via digital tuner on my MythTV box without these problems. I'm now wondering if it's a signal problem or hardware on my side. My MythTV box is down right now also so I can't simply record and compare.

Again, it's KCTS HD video only, the rest of the OTA stations work fine with HD programing.


twostar
Yes. I saw it the other night, and again when they were doing the test. It happened on my Direct H20, and the new CM7000. I took a look at the signal levels with my meter, since it was already on, and everything was rock solid.
It's the Analog Troll's getting even for trying to shut off their supply. Now that everything has been extended for a while, (WHEW!!!!) want to bet the hiccups go away ?!?!
Dan

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008681247_webdtv28.html

Hold the phone on the four month delay...

twostar
Yes. I saw it the other night, and again when they were doing the test. It happened on my Direct H20, and the new CM7000. I took a look at the signal levels with my meter, since it was already on, and everything was rock solid.
It's the Analog Troll's getting even for trying to shut off their supply. Now that everything has been extended for a while, (WHEW!!!!) want to bet the hiccups go away ?!?!
Dan

The test loop will stutter about once a minute. It about that long and is playing out from a decoder in our automation system that does not have the benefit of a frame synchronizer. So everytime it restarts or changes sources it will glitch a bit.

We are aware of the issues with North By Northwest. We are investigating that one but don't really have a handle on it yet.

Please, as we chase these problems, it is very helpful for us to know what program, what type of decoder and how you acquire KCTS. The various reports are helpful and greatly appreciated.

Two weeks ago I emailed Michael Goodman of KCPQ about their VHF testing schedule. He told me that their next test was to be Jan 28 (today). He said that it would take place during the KCPQ morning and evening news, exactly when he did not know, would last ~45 seconds, during which the current transmitted VHF analog would go away and the current (UHF) dtv signal on ch 18 would stay on.

I listened to the morning news this morning about 7:15 - 8:00 before I had to leave the house. I didn't hear any mention during the broadcast of such a test. Can anyone confirm VHF test happening today? I emailed Mr Goodman today for confirmation but have not heard back from him yet.

(I rarely get digital ch 13 to come in over UHF (weather has to be just right) and I am hoping for better result via VHF.)

I have recently been seeing KCTS HD stutter via Comcast Motorola 3416 HD DVR on a Panasonic TH-50PZ750U.

Programs affected include "Art Wolfe Travels to the Edge" and "Antiques Roadshow".

Two weeks ago I emailed Michael Goodman of KCPQ about their VHF testing schedule. He told me that their next test was to be Jan 28 (today). He said that it would take place during the KCPQ morning and evening news, exactly when he did not know, would last ~45 seconds, during which the current transmitted VHF analog would go away and the current (UHF) dtv signal on ch 18 would stay on.
...
(I rarely get digital ch 13 to come in over UHF (weather has to be just right) and I am hoping for better result via VHF.)

I'm similarly interested in a better result for FOX on VHF. I have no info regarding whether they're doing a test today, but your message makes it sound like they were just turning off the analog signal on channel 13 and keeping their digital signal on ch. 18 (which is not so much of a test as it is a warning to analog viewers), not switching to a digital signal on channel 13 (which would be more of a test for the likes of me and you).

Can you confirm if they're going to broadcast a digital signal on channel 13? Thanks, Moonus.

I'm similarly interested in a better result for FOX on VHF. I have no info regarding whether they're doing a test today, but your message makes it sound like they were just turning off the analog signal on channel 13 and keeping their digital signal on ch. 18 (which is not so much of a test as it is a warning to analog viewers), not switching to a digital signal on channel 13 (which would be more of a test for the likes of me and you).

Can you confirm if they're going to broadcast a digital signal on channel 13? Thanks, Moonus.

Channels 9, 11 & 13 are all returning to their VHF channel assignments. KCTS9 has one final test of our digital transmission system scheduled before the transition (Assuming it remains on the 17th) that will occur on February 9th from 3AM to 5AM.

The test loop will stutter about once a minute. It about that long and is playing out from a decoder in our automation system that does not have the benefit of a frame synchronizer. So everytime it restarts or changes sources it will glitch a bit.

We are aware of the issues with North By Northwest. We are investigating that one but don't really have a handle on it yet.

Please, as we chase these problems, it is very helpful for us to know what program, what type of decoder and how you acquire KCTS. The various reports are helpful and greatly appreciated.

Where and to whom would we send a report?

John

Where and to whom would we send a report?

John

I suppose I should have included those instructions. Send them to tschall@kcts9.org or simply drop them here. I do monitor these forums frequently.

I'm similarly interested in a better result for FOX on VHF. I have no info regarding whether they're doing a test today, but your message makes it sound like they were just turning off the analog signal on channel 13 and keeping their digital signal on ch. 18 (which is not so much of a test as it is a warning to analog viewers), not switching to a digital signal on channel 13 (which would be more of a test for the likes of me and you).

Can you confirm if they're going to broadcast a digital signal on channel 13? Thanks, Moonus.

To clarify, my understanding (from Mr Goodman's email two weeks ago) is that Ch 13's test will not only turn off the analog signal on VHF 13 but WILL also transmit a digital signal on VHF 13. The purpose is a test of reception by viewers of the digital VHF 13 signal. I still have not heard from Mr Goodman today to confirm today's ch 13 test.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008681247_webdtv28.html

Hold the phone on the four month delay...

I have to laugh at the Republican reasoning: a delay would confuse consumers. The only ones confused are the ones that don't have a converter box and they are also the ones who need more time to get set up properly. Bass-ackwards as usual.

I have to laugh at the Republican reasoning: a delay would confuse consumers. The only ones confused are the ones that don't have a converter box and they are also the ones who need more time to get set up properly. Bass-ackwards as usual.

Perhaps there was some truth to this: http://www.dcexaminer.com/opinion/columns/TimothyCarney/Obamas_secret_telecom_advisor_pushing_his_companys_interest_ 011609.html

Politics will never "change".

I have to laugh at the Republican reasoning: a delay would confuse consumers. The only ones confused are the ones that don't have a converter box and they are also the ones who need more time to get set up properly. Bass-ackwards as usual.


quarque
YUP !!
I also like them advertising for the discount coupons when the program ran out of money.

Not sure if anyone caught the Commentators show on KOMO a few days ago. Their subject was the DTV transition and peoples readiness. You can hear it again from their website. In any case, the amount of confusion and misinformation from the callers, and even from the hosts of the show, was sadly amazing. Wanted to call in and set them straight on some of this, but had to finish a job.

They definitely need to delay this, and throw a few bucks at the coupon program, too. You would think that the TV stations might have a few more specials with more in depth details about the changeover. Even though over air only users are in the minority, the goodwill would be great. PBS ran some good half hour specials. Not as complete as I would have liked to seen, but still good info, and more than I have seen on the others.
Still holding out hope for the delay, though.
Not sure if I believe the story by the DC Examiner. Not surprised, though. A lot of money at stake.

Yup, quarque. Right you are, politics as usual.

If anyone is interested, very good book, The Forgotten Man.

http://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Man-History-Great-Depression/dp/0060936428/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233212754&sr=1-1

Has a lot of eye opening history of the depression, before and after, a more real look at FDR and Hoover, and what worked and didn't. There are so many parallels to what's happening right now, fascinating. I just hope The Prez and crew learns from the mistakes of old.

Dan

Channels 9, 11 & 13 are all returning to their VHF channel assignments. KCTS9 has one final test of our digital transmission system scheduled before the transition (Assuming it remains on the 17th) that will occur on February 9th from 3AM to 5AM.

tschall
A few questions....
Was the test you did Monday on full power? Noticed a new category on the FCC site for your construction permit

ERP below Horizontal Plane (Beam Tilt): 158. kW ERP

Could you explain what that means and why the ERP field is zero kw ?

Also, I wonder if you've heard whether KCPQ will still do elliptical polarization, as they do now on 13. The FCC site say they plan to. The current ch18 doesn't. I have hated the elliptical for years, because you couldn't really get a clean analog picture without using a special cut-for 13 antenna. Channel Master quit making it 20 years ago. Of course, not sure how it will work on digital, no one else uses it.
Oh, well. Have to have something fun to look forward to !
Thanks
Dan

ERP below Horizontal Plane (Beam Tilt): 158. kW ERP

Could you explain what that means and why the ERP field is zero kw ?

That's for the analog, and it's at half-power. Why it's only below the horizontal plane is something someone else will have to answer, but I've been assuming it's a mistake on the FCC's part, as a lot of stations cutting analog power are listed the same way.

- Trip

I have recently been seeing KCTS HD stutter via Comcast Motorola 3416 HD DVR on a Panasonic TH-50PZ750U.

Programs affected include "Art Wolfe Travels to the Edge" and "Antiques Roadshow".

I was watching Make 'em Laugh last night and experienced some stutter, but it was a bit different than what others have reported here. The audio would just blank out for a second or so and the come back. Video wasn't affected at all. It only happened a few times, however the same thing happened on that program last week (no, it wasn't the bleeping of non-FCC-approved language).

9.1 OTA via Directv HR20 receiver.

TSchall KCTS

A different subject:

What date is your station pulling the plug on the TVGOS Gemstar/TV Guide feed?

TSchall KCTS

A different subject:

What date is your station pulling the plug on the TVGOS Gemstar/TV Guide feed?

The contract for that service expires with the analog shutdown so it will end on that date. Whenever that turns out to be.

Is anyone else noticing stutter in HD video programing on KCTS? I recently picked up a HDTV and while all the other channels receive fine, whenever KCTS has HD programing on the video stutters and then catches up with the audio. This occurs only when there is movement in the video and audio is unaffected.

Previously I had been receiving the signal via digital tuner on my MythTV box without these problems. I'm now wondering if it's a signal problem or hardware on my side. My MythTV box is down right now also so I can't simply record and compare.

Again, it's KCTS HD video only, the rest of the OTA stations work fine with HD programing.

I have been having the same problem with my Magnavox 32" HDTV. Here is my description of the problem and KCTS' lame response:

City: Seattle
What type of equipment are you using?:
- Digital TV
What type of antenna are you using? :
- Outdoor VHF/UHF
What brand (e.g. Sony, Magnavox) of DTV or DTV converter box do you use?: Magnavox
What model of DTV or DTV converter box do you use?: 32MF337B

On some shows, such as "Big Big World", which my kid is watching right now, there seems to be some jitteryness or pausing of the video. I also see it sometimes on "Word World" and during the documentary pieces on Bill Moyers (but not during the interview pieces). This is puzzling, since the Moyers show is not in HD. Word World seems to be in HD and I can't tell with Big Big World. I do not see this pausing on the analog channel, or when watching one of my converter boxes through the VCR on the Magnavox set, or on the 13" DTV that is in the kitchen. It only happens when watching 9.1 directly on the Magnavox set, and I have never noticed it with any other DTV signal. I'm also noticing that it sort of comes and goes with the program material; in other words there isn't a regular pause every 3.2 seconds or something like that. Please help- it makes watching some shows on KCTS almost impossible.


Thank you for your interest in KCTS 9.

There are other less obvious problems that can occur with digital. There is a slight degradation that happens with multiplexing but this should be the exception and not the norm.

Another potential hazard with digital TV is low level interference. This can occur in anyone's home without any knowledge of it happening. This interference can come from another electronic device. The direct pick-up interference potential appears to be highly dependent on the interconnection among various system components (e.g., cable amplifiers, splitters and set-top boxes) being used.

We are hopeful that after February 17, 2009 when KCTS 9 switches back to channel 9 and VHF some problems will be cleared. Of course people will have to re-scan their converter boxes on the 18th of February.


Thank you for writing.

Are they kidding? I also work in TV and know that this problem isn't white space interference. It is the way my TV reacts to their encoder but it does not happen on any other channel- which makes it their problem, IMHO.

Val

Just watched last night's airing off of the DVR. Terrible reception/signal breakup. First time in quite a while that I've experienced issues with abc and curious if it is something with my setup or if others (no pun intended) experienced something similar. TIA

Just watched last night's airing off of the DVR. Terrible reception/signal breakup. First time in quite a while that I've experienced issues with abc and curious if it is something with my setup or if others (no pun intended) experienced something similar. TIA

How were you getting the signal? DirecTV was having problems with KOMO yesterday.

I was watching Make 'em Laugh last night and experienced some stutter, but it was a bit different than what others have reported here. The audio would just blank out for a second or so and the come back. Video wasn't affected at all. It only happened a few times, however the same thing happened on that program last week (no, it wasn't the bleeping of non-FCC-approved language).

9.1 OTA via Directv HR20 receiver.

I watched "Make 'em Laugh" last night and had terrible problems (unwatchable) with my Vizio and slight problems with my 2 CECBs (CM-700 and Zenith DTT 901) and noticeable problems with my DVR playback. I guess the Vizio decoder is less capable than others. When I asked Vizio about it they, of course claim it's a PBS problem since all the other digital channels do not have this problem. It would seem that the PBS encoding is quite different than the other stations and triggers some bug(?) / misbehavior in the Vizio and DVR.

I watched "Make 'em Laugh" last night and had terrible problems (unwatchable) with my Vizio and slight problems with my 2 CECBs (CM-700 and Zenith DTT 901) and noticeable problems with my DVR playback. I guess the Vizio decoder is less capable than others. When I asked Vizio about it they, of course claim it's a PBS problem since all the other digital channels do not have this problem. It would seem that the PBS encoding is quite different than the other stations and triggers some bug(?) / misbehavior in the Vizio and DVR.

I hadn't checked with my Vizio's tuner before, but just looked (I had to wait until there was something other than animation to tell) and the video was a bit jerkier than with my Directv HR20's OTA tuner, but audio seemed better. I suspect that when Directv starts carrying KCTS via satellite it will be different yet, since they will be converting from MPEG2 to MPEG4. My other Directv box has an external tuner for OTA with a different chipset and I'll check that one out later.

How were you getting the signal? DirecTV was having problems with KOMO yesterday.

OTA. Trying to figure out if it is my antenna.

I am curious about the availability of TVGOS after the analog shut-off through my current cable provider (Wave Broadband) here in Kitsap county. Not sure if anyone out there knows the answer?

Currently their analog PBS passes VBI data to populate the TV listings. KIRO-DT (7.1) also generates an SCTE 127 data stream which carries the TV Guide data, but it appears that Wave Broadband video encoders are removing the SCTE 127 stream. I am hoping they correct his before the analog shutoff otherwise my TV Guide enabled TV will not populate listings.

See http://laurenstephens.net/uploads/3d927cc0e5.pdf

Luckily my Sony DVR has both a OTA and Cable input and will search both for TV Guide data so it should be able to get listings through OTA 7.1.
Check out the Sony DHG HDD 250/500 Official Thread - I think I read some people use an antenna and cable which might be the answer for you. If you can get KIRO 7.1 with an antenna you can try to force your Sony Host Channel to 7.1 and get your guide that way.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=537711&pp=30&page=455

Well, get ready for another subchannel. "This TV" will be coming some time in February to KOMO (4.2 I'm Guessing).

http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=95767

Fisher Communications' KOMO (ABC) in Seattle will link with it starting in February.

Noticed that while SNL was fine on HD last night, the SD feed was not letterboxed, and much of the action took place outside of the picture.

Was this a local issue, or nationwide?

Noticed that while SNL was fine on HD last night, the SD feed was not letterboxed, and much of the action took place outside of the picture.

Was this a local issue, or nationwide?

:confused::confused:

I don't know about where you are, but in Seattle, KING only has one digital signal and it is HD (there is a SD subchannel but that carries Universal Sports). Any letterboxing should be done by a converter box.

Noticed that while SNL was fine on HD last night, the SD feed was not letterboxed, and much of the action took place outside of the picture.

Was this a local issue, or nationwide?

DirecTV is now using the the HD feed for the SD channels. What they are doing is converting the HD feed and cropping off the edges. Channel 9 has text going off the edges all the time now.

I have been having the same problem with my Magnavox 32" HDTV. Here is my description of the problem and KCTS' lame response:

City: Seattle
What type of equipment are you using?:
- Digital TV
What type of antenna are you using? :
- Outdoor VHF/UHF
What brand (e.g. Sony, Magnavox) of DTV or DTV converter box do you use?: Magnavox
What model of DTV or DTV converter box do you use?: 32MF337B

On some shows, such as "Big Big World", which my kid is watching right now, there seems to be some jitteryness or pausing of the video. I also see it sometimes on "Word World" and during the documentary pieces on Bill Moyers (but not during the interview pieces). This is puzzling, since the Moyers show is not in HD. Word World seems to be in HD and I can't tell with Big Big World. I do not see this pausing on the analog channel, or when watching one of my converter boxes through the VCR on the Magnavox set, or on the 13" DTV that is in the kitchen. It only happens when watching 9.1 directly on the Magnavox set, and I have never noticed it with any other DTV signal. I'm also noticing that it sort of comes and goes with the program material; in other words there isn't a regular pause every 3.2 seconds or something like that. Please help- it makes watching some shows on KCTS almost impossible.


Thank you for your interest in KCTS 9.

There are other less obvious problems that can occur with digital. There is a slight degradation that happens with multiplexing but this should be the exception and not the norm.

Another potential hazard with digital TV is low level interference. This can occur in anyone's home without any knowledge of it happening. This interference can come from another electronic device. The direct pick-up interference potential appears to be highly dependent on the interconnection among various system components (e.g., cable amplifiers, splitters and set-top boxes) being used.

We are hopeful that after February 17, 2009 when KCTS 9 switches back to channel 9 and VHF some problems will be cleared. Of course people will have to re-scan their converter boxes on the 18th of February.


Thank you for writing.

Are they kidding? I also work in TV and know that this problem isn't white space interference. It is the way my TV reacts to their encoder but it does not happen on any other channel- which makes it their problem, IMHO.

Val

Val:

It is evident that perhaps our response was 'off the mark' as they say but nowhere in our reply do I see any mention of white space interference. What I do see is a mention of 'low level' interference which is generally on an channel problem. Clearly this is not the issue either. Most of these issues are not addressed directly by engineering. If we did that we would do nothing all day but address these sorts of issues. Clearly that is not going to happen either. Most of these issues are adressed by our extremly over worked viewer services folks. I will attempt to ascertain who, exactly, sent the reply and speak with them about it.

In the meantime, I have a couple of additional questions: What sort of a television is it that has this issue? Do you see the issue all the time or just on certain shows? Any show that is any worse than the rest? How about our other digital channels?

This problem is maddening in that it seems to occur randomly and only on certain types of sets. We go and replay the show and it doesn't have the issue on the same set.

Val:

It is evident that perhaps our response was 'off the mark' as they say but nowhere in our reply do I see any mention of white space interference. What I do see is a mention of 'low level' interference which is generally on an channel problem. Clearly this is not the issue either. Most of these issues are not addressed directly by engineering. If we did that we would do nothing all day but address these sorts of issues. Clearly that is not going to happen either. Most of these issues are adressed by our extremly over worked viewer services folks. I will attempt to ascertain who, exactly, sent the reply and speak with them about it.

In the meantime, I have a couple of additional questions: What sort of a television is it that has this issue? Do you see the issue all the time or just on certain shows? Any show that is any worse than the rest? How about our other digital channels?

This problem is maddening in that it seems to occur randomly and only on certain types of sets. We go and replay the show and it doesn't have the issue on the same set.

My experience is that the problem is repeatable on repeat broadcasts of a problem show. For me I notice the problem less because I rarely watch live tv and my playback decoder (MythTV) does a fairly reasonable job of fixing the problems most of the time (though not always). As was mentioned by the OP I see many more problems with programs that intersperse other video clips with the main program. Make 'em Laugh and a recent Bill Moyers program were problematic for my Vizio and my MythTV playback because of this. Usually I have no problems with Moyers program.

Has anyone seen the problem with stuff we've run in the last 36 hours or so? It's now 2000 on Sun Feb 1.

Tim

Wasn't the SuperBowl amazing in HD?

I'm still so impressed with OTD HD, especially now that King5 is pretty much rock-solid for me here in Duvall (guess I'll see what spring brings with the leaves back on the trees, but now I'm happy as can be.)


Oh, also are any of our Seattle forum folks using the DTVPal DVR yet? I'd be curious to hear any local reviews\experiences with them (my folks really like theirs, but they're in the Boston broadcast market.)

Has anyone seen the problem with stuff we've run in the last 36 hours or so? It's now 2000 on Sun Feb 1.

Tim

I have been watching Nature for several minutes, switching between the Vizio's tuner and my Directv HR20's OTA tuner. I haven't seen any issues with either video or audio. I watched a few programs yesterday and didn't notice any problems.

Wasn't the SuperBowl amazing in HD?

I'm still so impressed with OTD HD, especially now that King5 is pretty much rock-solid for me here in Duvall (guess I'll see what spring brings with the leaves back on the trees, but now I'm happy as can be.)


Oh, also are any of our Seattle forum folks using the DTVPal DVR yet? I'd be curious to hear any local reviews\experiences with them (my folks really like theirs, but they're in the Boston broadcast market.)

I am thinking about getting one after I get my taxes done. I would like to know how KIRO is doing with the transmission of TVGOS. Are all the channels in the area available though it?

:confused::confused:

I don't know about where you are, but in Seattle, KING only has one digital signal and it is HD (there is a SD subchannel but that carries Universal Sports). Any letterboxing should be done by a converter box.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was comparing the HD channel to the analog channel.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was comparing the HD channel to the analog channel.

I don't recall seeing letterboxing on analog channels (which I rarely watch anymore) except for an occasional movie, but most of the recent network 16:9 programming appears to be center-cut safe.

I am thinking about getting one after I get my taxes done. I would like to know how KIRO is doing with the transmission of TVGOS. Are all the channels in the area available though it?

Kiro OTA 7.1 is inserting TVGOS data in their feed. TVGOS shows listings for all available OTA channels in the area, and depending on the settings it will include listings for all cable provided channels in the area as well.

I have a newer Sony HDTV which has built in TV-Guide and it receives listings through 7.1. I also live in Port Orchard.

I've been getting okay signal strength of ATSC reception with my Samsung HDTV of major channels. Channel 4 barley gets in, 5 and 7 come in pretty good, 11 and 13 come and go. I recently bought a Pinnacle PC-HDTV tuner card for my PC. I loaded the ATSC software that comes along with this card (which sucks smelly butt crack), and reviewed the signal strength of the major channels. They are all above 50%? 4, 11, and 13 come into my PC really good.

My setup is:
Outdoor Antenna on my Roof: CM-4228HD, connected by via cable input into my house. I dismounted the Comcast cable and mounted the the cable line from my antenna. My PC is upstairs in my house, and the TV is downstairs.

Here are my two questions:
1. Why the difference in signal strength? Is this hardware driven? Software? Locations of my TV and PC in my house?
I plan on putting my TV upstairs and moving my PC downstairs if I get the same results.

2. Anyone know of any good Windows Xp ATSC PC software? The Pinnacle TVpro keeps lagging and freezing my PC. I've read a few on the forums, but wanted something that someone around here has used that is reliable and fast.

Has anyone seen the problem with stuff we've run in the last 36 hours or so? It's now 2000 on Sun Feb 1.

Tim

2000 on Monday Feb 2 and HD Roadshow is crisp clear and free of stutter. It's been a couple weeks without HD KCTS. Here's to hoping the rest of the HD comes in clear.

edit:

2100 Feb 2, American Experience is stuttering with HD video, SD sections play fine, still photo's moving around fine, jump to HD interviews and it stutters again.

Has anyone seen the problem with stuff we've run in the last 36 hours or so? It's now 2000 on Sun Feb 1.

Tim

Newhour with Jim Lehrer: OK until the promo for Nova when every time Michael Sheuer was talking the audio broke up and the video stuttered and/or ran fast on my Vizio and Tuner cards.

American Experience: Lots of problems with the color portions after the B&W. Audio breakups and video speed ups. Some short video freezing.

Eyes on the Prize: Short freezes every couple of seconds and loss of A/V sync on Vizio only

The CECBs had no problems.

Has anyone seen the problem with stuff we've run in the last 36 hours or so? It's now 2000 on Sun Feb 1.

Tim

Sorry about the tone of my original post. Watching jittery video gets frustrating. I realize encoder problems are frustrating too- I fought with a Philips EZcast in one of our SNG trucks for years.

Anyway- the title of the original e-mail reply from KCTS was "White Space Interference".

This problem occurs with my Magnavox 32MF337B, not with any other box or TV in my house. I pick up KCTS OTA. I don't really watch V-ME or Create, but I haven't seen the jittering on those channels. I have seen it on Big Big World, Word World and on some parts of the Bill Moyers show.

I haven't looked for the problem in the last few days, but I will try to keep a real log of when I see the problem- what day, what time, what show; that kind of thing. I don't have a way to recreate the problem- if I record a show through my DTV converter box on my VCR (!) the problem doesn't show up, even though it might have been seen on my TV when watched live.

Val

Sorry about the tone of my original post. Watching jittery video gets frustrating. I realize encoder problems are frustrating too- I fought with a Philips EZcast in one of our SNG trucks for years.

Anyway- the title of the original e-mail reply from KCTS was "White Space Interference".

This problem occurs with my Magnavox 32MF337B, not with any other box or TV in my house. I pick up KCTS OTA. I don't really watch V-ME or Create, but I haven't seen the jittering on those channels. I have seen it on Big Big World, Word World and on some parts of the Bill Moyers show.

I haven't looked for the problem in the last few days, but I will try to keep a real log of when I see the problem- what day, what time, what show; that kind of thing. I don't have a way to recreate the problem- if I record a show through my DTV converter box on my VCR (!) the problem doesn't show up, even though it might have been seen on my TV when watched live.

Val

No sweat Val. I made some changes a few days ago and they seem to be helping somewhat. We'll be doing some experimentation today and later this evening to see if we can isolate the problem a bit further. Thanks to everyone for their help.

Tim

I've been getting okay signal strength of ATSC reception with my Samsung HDTV of major channels. Channel 4 barley gets in, 5 and 7 come in pretty good, 11 and 13 come and go. I recently bought a Pinnacle PC-HDTV tuner card for my PC. I loaded the ATSC software that comes along with this card (which sucks smelly butt crack), and reviewed the signal strength of the major channels. They are all above 50%? 4, 11, and 13 come into my PC really good.

My setup is:
Outdoor Antenna on my Roof: CM-4228HD, connected by via cable input into my house. I dismounted the Comcast cable and mounted the the cable line from my antenna. My PC is upstairs in my house, and the TV is downstairs.

Here are my two questions:
1. Why the difference in signal strength? Is this hardware driven? Software? Locations of my TV and PC in my house?
I plan on putting my TV upstairs and moving my PC downstairs if I get the same results.

2. Anyone know of any good Windows Xp ATSC PC software? The Pinnacle TVpro keeps lagging and freezing my PC. I've read a few on the forums, but wanted something that someone around here has used that is reliable and fast.

Was unsure from your post if the signal strength was really different at the TV vs the PC or if reception is better on the PC due to more processing horsepower... The decoder and processor on the PC may be able to handle more errors.

But, assuming there really is a difference in signal level coming out of the cable at the two locations I can recommend two things: 1) Check that all unused coax lines are terminated with terminator caps (available at RatShack). An unterminated line can cause all sorts of problems for the lines which are in use. 2) Check your splitters. I recently found one in my system (from RatShack) which only had one functioning output (the other output was dead).

I'm not much help on your quest for PC software. I've heard good things about elgato (particularly the dual-tuner versions, which can be ganged together to improve reception of poor signals), but that's for the mac.

With HD, there may be freeze/lag issues on a PC if the tuner card doesn't do the MPEG2 processing with a dedicated chip (low-end cards don't do that), but relies on the PC"s CPU (the faster, the better, of course). A more powerful video card should also help.

DirecTV is now using the the HD feed for the SD channels. What they are doing is converting the HD feed and cropping off the edges. Channel 9 has text going off the edges all the time now.
FWIW, I believe local stations can choose the format of the signal to cable & satellite providers. They can choose to send letterboxed or center cut video. A friend at one TV station said they decided to send center cut. In other words, the left/right sides are cropped.

FWIW, I believe local stations can choose the format of the signal to cable & satellite providers. They can choose to send letterboxed or center cut video. A friend at one TV station said they decided to send center cut. In other words, the left/right sides are cropped.

I think that DirecTV is using antennas for picking up most of our local channels. I know that they have a fiber feed of KSTW.

FWIW, I believe local stations can choose the format of the signal to cable & satellite providers. They can choose to send letterboxed or center cut video. A friend at one TV station said they decided to send center cut. In other words, the left/right sides are cropped.
That's all ending with the analog shutdown. For the last several years, stations have run two channels - digital and analog. Programming was formatted differently for each feed. Most distributors took both feeds - sending the digital channel to HD customers and the analog one to the SD side.

Come February 17, or whenever the shutdown happens, TV stations will only send out one feed - the 16:9 HD version. Distributors will have to do the downconverts themselves and they have all chosen centercut, not letterbox. Dish and DirecTV made the switch last fall and Comcast went last week. That's why you may see some shows and commercials with truncated words, which happens when content is produced for 16:9 with graphics outside of 4:3 safe area. You may have noticed that the networks all moved their HD bugs and snipes into 4:3 safe for the fall 2008 season. That was done to facilitate the demise of 4:3 SD transmission.

I suppose a TV station could continue sending two feeds. But, it's not cheap and there's no longer any reason to do it. Stations will be back to programming for one channel instead of two and it will be up to distributors and OTA end users to decide how to convert 16:9 to 4:3.

Has anyone seen the problem with stuff we've run in the last 36 hours or so? It's now 2000 on Sun Feb 1.

Tim

Tuesday 3 Feb 20:00 Nova "The Spy Factory" has the stutter, most, but not all the time. The clips from Enemy of the State (approx 20:18) have the stutter. Head-and-shoulder interview shots tend to have it (and with speakers you can tell the sound and image are slightly out of sync)

I have still not seen stutter on any other digital channel.

Samsung LN40A630, OTA with interior antenna.
Green Lake, 23xx N 55h St, 98103

Ack.... Put your foot right in it Tim. BIslanders last sentence was off the bottom of my screen when I noticed that he brought up supplying a separate feed. We use an existing fiber circuit to Comcast to accomplish this. It's the same circuit that carries our digital feed and our PEG channel. Going to hide now....

That's all ending with the analog shutdown. For the last several years, stations have run two channels - digital and analog. Programming was formatted differently for each feed. Most distributors took both feeds - sending the digital channel to HD customers and the analog one to the SD side.

Come February 17, or whenever the shutdown happens, TV stations will only send out one feed - the 16:9 HD version. Distributors will have to do the downconverts themselves and they have all chosen centercut, not letterbox. Dish and DirecTV made the switch last fall and Comcast went last week. That's why you may seem some shows and commercials with truncated words. That happens when content is produced for 16:9 with graphics outside of 4:3 safe area. You may have noticed that the networks all moved their HD bugs and snipes into 4:3 safe for the fall 2008 season. That was done to facilitate the demise of 4:3 SD transmission.

I suppose a TV station could continue sending two feeds. But, it's not cheap and there's no longer any reason to do it. Stations will be back to programming for one channel instead of two and it will be up to distributors and OTA end users to decide how to convert 16:9 to 4:3.

That's not entirely accurate. Stations can provide cable systems with a separate 4:3 feed either OTA as a digital sub-channel or via fiber. You also have the option, at least with the dish providers, to tell them to either center cut or letterbox a 16:9 feed. KCTS, for example, has instructed both DirecTV and Dish Network to center cut our HD feed for their SD services. Also, anytime a cable system asks we tell them that we prefer the feed be center cut.

The 4:3 SD feed that we provide to Comcast uses high quality aspect ratio converters to letterbox our 16:9 material and crop our 4:3 material so that it fits correctly onto a 4:3 screen.

It's enough to make your wonder sometimes if your on the right planet....

The 4:3 SD feed that we provide to Comcast uses high quality aspect ratio converters to letterbox our 16:9 material and crop our 4:3 material so that it fits correctly onto a 4:3 screen.
I'm curious about how you manage switching between letterbox and centercut 4:3. Is that something you do on the fly, akin to using AFD, or do you actually run a second content feed where some of the programs on your 4:3 SD feed are prepared differently than the versions that run on your digital channel?

Tuesday 3 Feb 20:00 Nova "The Spy Factory" has the stutter, most, but not all the time. The clips from Enemy of the State (approx 20:18) have the stutter. Head-and-shoulder interview shots tend to have it (and with speakers you can tell the sound and image are slightly out of sync)

I have still not seen stutter on any other digital channel.

Samsung LN40A630, OTA with interior antenna.
Green Lake, 23xx N 55h St, 98103

Interesting......
I saw the stutters, too, but this time I was watching on my Comcast feed, which hooks up directly to the old XBR analog, no STB.
Dan

Tuesday 3 Feb 20:00 Nova "The Spy Factory" has the stutter, most, but not all the time. The clips from Enemy of the State (approx 20:18) have the stutter. Head-and-shoulder interview shots tend to have it (and with speakers you can tell the sound and image are slightly out of sync)

I have still not seen stutter on any other digital channel.

Samsung LN40A630, OTA with interior antenna.
Green Lake, 23xx N 55h St, 98103

Same problems for me with Nova - stuttering, loss of A/V symc. Ditto for Frontline and Independent lens. I made a few notes for Frontline:

3:40 loss of sync and stuttering
15:20 loss of sync and stuttering
16:22-16:29 loss of sync and stuttering
18:04 loss of sync
Starting at 18:45 loss of sync and stuttering more or less continuously (gave up watching around then.)

Independent Lens was unwatchable due to constant loss of sync and stuttering.

I think that DirecTV is using antennas for picking up most of our local channels. I know that they have a fiber feed of KSTW.
I know they get a fiber feed of KCPQ, too. But, I've been told by a tv engineer that DirecTV requires stations to provide fiber feeds.

I know they get a fiber feed of KCPQ, too. But, I've been told by a tv engineer that DirecTV requires stations to provide fiber feeds.Sorry, Art. But, I am fairly certain there is no such requirement. KING and KONG don't fiber to DirecTV.

I'm curious about how you manage switching between letterbox and centercut 4:3. Is that something you do on the fly, akin to using AFD, or do you actually run a second content feed where some of the programs on your 4:3 SD feed are prepared differently than the versions that run on your digital channel?

Yes. We do it "on the fly" but not via AFD. We down convert the HD signal and our automation system knows which material is 4:3 & which is 16:9. There's an aspect ratio converter that is keyed via a GPI signal from our automation and presto! Properly formatted 4:3 from a 16:9 picture. Most of the time.....

Sorry, Art. But, I am fairly certain there is no such requirement. KING and KONG don't fiber to DirecTV.

Nope. No such requirement at all. DirecTV (or whoever) specifies a Local Receive Facility. (LRF) If you put a good signal into the LRF then they can take you off the air. If your signal is not so good you have the option to hand them some sort of alternate feed. Actually, you always have the option to hand them some sort of alternate feed.

When Directv switched to using a digital feed (around October 1), there was a big improvement on some channels, notably KBTC. I think they used to get some fiber feeds but now receive them all for both HD and SD via antennas at their LRF (Columbia Center?)

Has anyone seen the problem with stuff we've run in the last 36 hours or so? It's now 2000 on Sun Feb 1.

Tim

I know it's a few days later but I did notice a change in my reception. I'm on top of Beacon Hill down by Orcas.
I had to move my TV upstairs during my basement remodel an thus lost my connection to my outdoor antenna. But being cheap I just many a bowtie antenna from some bronze rod I had lying around. I didn't expect to get KCTS but I could get it to come in at about 76% signal when the antenna was placed just right. I'd get the occasional artifacts when people moved about the room.
Then came Sunday and the Superbowl. I move the antenna to get that in better and never moved it back.
KCTS was coming in at 50% signal. This has never happened before on my Panasonic TH-42PZ77U.
Right now I have 54% and it's totally watchable. Even before with the channel master antenna it had to be close to 80% to avoid artifacts.

Is that just more power to the broadcast antenna or different encoding?

Yes. We do it "on the fly" but not via AFD. We down convert the HD signal and our automation system knows which material is 4:3 & which is 16:9. There's an aspect ratio converter that is keyed via a GPI signal from our automation and presto! Properly formatted 4:3 from a 16:9 picture. Most of the time.....That's a great way to go.

Is all 16:9 content downconverted to letterbox or do you make format decisions based on other criteria? For example, if the content is 16:9, but all elements are 4:3 safe, do you letterbox or centercut?

Yes. We do it "on the fly" but not via AFD. We down convert the HD signal and our automation system knows which material is 4:3 & which is 16:9. There's an aspect ratio converter that is keyed via a GPI signal from our automation and presto! Properly formatted 4:3 from a 16:9 picture. Most of the time.....

But you no longer have a 4:3 main digital channel. Do you mean on 9.2 and 9.3 or are you referring to the analog broadcast? I saw one program last week which was window boxed (letterboxed plus pillar boxed). What is the reason for doing that, rather than going full screen.

But you no longer have a 4:3 main digital channel. Do you mean on 9.2 and 9.3 or are you referring to the analog broadcast? I saw one program last week which was window boxed (letterboxed plus pillar boxed). What is the reason for doing that, rather than going full screen.I believe he's talking about the feed that currently goes to the analog transmitter. When that is shutdown, they will continue to provide an analog fiber feed to Comcast. Comcast customers watching on Ch 9 may get a mixture of letterboxed and center cut programs while satellite, other cable companies, and OTA downconverts will likely be all centercut.

As for window boxing, I was just watching Charlie Rose on KCTS. It was a 4:3 source with black curtains on Comcast 9-1 and window boxed on Comcast 9. It would appear that the automation system thinks an upconverted 4:3 source on DT is actually a 16:9 source that needs to be letterboxed on the analog feed to Comcast.

Meanwhile, the Magnificent Mind promo that followed is window boxed on 9-1 and letterboxed on Ch 9 (a 4:3 centercut of the window boxed version). The 16:9 version was improperly prepared, which is quite common with commericals these days. I think that's done to assure that no graphics are cropped on the 4:3 output. But, the 16:9 version should be full screen, no black on any sides, with all text in the 4:3 safe area. Then, the spot will air "best aspect" on both DT and analog, regardless of whether it is centercut or letterboxed.

The Arthur show comes on next. It's also a 4:3 original with black curtains on 9-1. But, unlike Charlie Rose, it's center cut on Ch 9, producing the usual full screen 4:3 image. The automation system appears to be treating the downconvert of this program differently than Charlie Rose. Maybe Arthur is a 4:3 original that's getting upconverted for DT while Charlie Rose is a 16:9 original that was recorded with curtains. Whatever the reason, Charlie Rose and Arthur are aspected the same way on DT, but differently on Comcast Ch 9. Arthur is output correctly on analog while Charlie Rose is not.


EDIT: I might add that KCTS has a bigger issue with how to manage aspect ratios than most stations. PBS will continue to air a great deal of content that was designed for 16:9 and will not work in a 4:3 center cut. That differs from commercial stations, where nearly all of the new HD content is 4:3 safe.

Nope. No such requirement at all. DirecTV (or whoever) specifies a Local Receive Facility. (LRF) If you put a good signal into the LRF then they can take you off the air. If your signal is not so good you have the option to hand them some sort of alternate feed. Actually, you always have the option to hand them some sort of alternate feed.
I stand corrected.

Hi All!

Does anyone know, yet, (may be too early) which stations in Seattle (Puget Sound) will be sticking to the original Feb. 17th analog cut-off date and ignoring the new June 12th "hard" cut-off date?

Cheers,
Kermee

Hi All!

Does anyone know, yet, (may be too early) which stations in Seattle (Puget Sound) will be sticking to the original Feb. 17th analog cut-off date and ignoring the new June 12th "hard" cut-off date?KIRO has annnounced it will do the shut-off on February 17, although I believe they still need FCC approval. No other stations have announced their plans, but several say they have filed petitions with the FCC to allow a February 17 shutdown.

KONG has said they will shut down analog on February 6.

KONG has said they will shut down analog on February 6.I believe that's on hold until Belo decides whether to go with the Feb 17 date in Seattle. Feb 6 could still happen for KONG. But, it's no longer definite.

Has anyone else noticed a change in reception of KVOS lately?

I'm in an apartment building on Capitol Hill and use only a Silver Sensor, and, until last weekend, I had to very precisely point point the antenna to get enough fumes of KVOS to lock-on.

Since the weekend, it's been strong (comparable to the stuff coming off West Tiger) and antenna direction's mattered little.

For the first couple of days, I thought it was just tropo, but I've never seen that so long-lived and so stable. It doesn't look like they've been granted a CP for their new site in Snohomish County, yet, so I doubt that's it, either.

Has anyone else noticed a change in reception of KVOS lately?

I'm in an apartment building on Capitol Hill and use only a Silver Sensor, and, until last weekend, I had to very precisely point point the antenna to get enough fumes of KVOS to lock-on.

Since the weekend, it's been strong (comparable to the stuff coming off West Tiger) and antenna direction's mattered little.

For the first couple of days, I thought it was just tropo, but I've never seen that so long-lived and so stable. It doesn't look like they've been granted a CP for their new site in Snohomish County, yet, so I doubt that's it, either.
I also have a nice strong signal from KVOS on channel 12.1 on the west side of Bremerton.

KCTS, KSTW and KCPQ had previously indicated they will flash-cut their ATSC feed to their high-VHF analog assigned channels on Feb. 17. With Congress' decision to postpone the analog shut-off date, will these three stations proceed with a Feb. 17 flash cut as previously planned?

KCTS, KSTW and KCPQ had previously indicated they will flash-cut their ATSC feed to their high-VHF analog assigned channels on Feb. 17. With Congress' decision to postpone the analog shut-off date, will these three stations proceed with a Feb. 17 flash cut as previously planned?

There was a bit on the KING5 News on KONG this morning saying that all of the Seattle stations had asked the FCC for permission to go ahead with the Feb. 17 switch. I didn't realize they needed permission, only that they had to notify the FCC. I'm sure we will hear more over the next several days.

May you live in interesting times--ancient Chinese curse

Has anyone else noticed a change in reception of KVOS lately?

I'm in an apartment building on Capitol Hill and use only a Silver Sensor, and, until last weekend, I had to very precisely point point the antenna to get enough fumes of KVOS to lock-on.

Since the weekend, it's been strong (comparable to the stuff coming off West Tiger) and antenna direction's mattered little.

For the first couple of days, I thought it was just tropo, but I've never seen that so long-lived and so stable. It doesn't look like they've been granted a CP for their new site in Snohomish County, yet, so I doubt that's it, either.

I also have a nice strong signal from KVOS on channel 12.1 on the west side of Bremerton.

I was getting 12.1 great last night too. Being 120+ miles away I seem to only get it during certain atmospheric conditions. Must be in one of those right now...

There was a bit on the KING5 News on KONG this morning saying that all of the Seattle stations had asked the FCC for permission to go ahead with the Feb. 17 switch. I didn't realize they needed permission, only that they had to notify the FCC. I'm sure we will hear more over the next several days.I think that script was in error. Stations must inform the FCC of their intent to stick to the original date, but they don't need permission. KIRO's website says KIRO is going ahead on 2/17. KIRO is the only station in the market that has made a public statement. Others, including KOMO and KING, say they've filed petitions of intent with the FCC but haven't decided what to actually do yet.

There was a bit on the KING5 News on KONG this morning saying that all of the Seattle stations had asked the FCC for permission to go ahead with the Feb. 17 switch. I didn't realize they needed permission, only that they had to notify the FCC. I'm sure we will hear more over the next several days.

May you live in interesting times--ancient Chinese curse
From the Seattle Times

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008709347_digital05.html

"TV stations will be allowed to seek a federal waiver to turn off their analog signals before the new deadline"

From the Seattle Times

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008709347_digital05.html

"TV stations will be allowed to seek a federal waiver to turn off their analog signals before the new deadline"

KCTS's intention, at this time, is to maintain our analog signal until June 12th on channel 9. Our current digital broadcasts (9-1, 9-2 & 9-3) will continue on channel 41.

KING and KONG will wait until June 12. No analog shut-off at KONG tomorrow or at KING on Feb 17.

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_020509DTV-kong-switchover-delayed-TP.21173cde.html

KCTS, KSTW and KCPQ had previously indicated they will flash-cut their ATSC feed to their high-VHF analog assigned channels on Feb. 17. With Congress' decision to postpone the analog shut-off date, will these three stations proceed with a Feb. 17 flash cut as previously planned?

KCPQ's homepage links to an article (http://www.q13fox.com/pages/news_story_landing_page/?Congress-Votes-to-Postpone-Digital-TV-Tr=1&blockID=204385&feedID=144) which contains the following tidbit:

"...
Broadcasters saying they will wait until June include News Corp., which owns 27 Fox stations in 18 markets."

If the article is correct, this would indicate that KCPQ is not switching their digital to VHF until June. For reasons too complex to explain here, I've geared my antenna setup to receive KCPQ on VHF, not UHF. The delay is a bummer for me.

KCPQ is owned by Tribune, not Fox. Some Tribune stations have indicated they want to go early, so we'll have to wait and see.

- Trip

KCPQ's homepage links to an article (http://www.q13fox.com/pages/news_story_landing_page/?Congress-Votes-to-Postpone-Digital-TV-Tr=1&blockID=204385&feedID=144) which contains the following tidbit:

"...
Broadcasters saying they will wait until June include News Corp., which owns 27 Fox stations in 18 markets."

If the article is correct, this would indicate that KCPQ is not switching their digital to VHF until June. For reasons too complex to explain here, I've geared my antenna setup to receive KCPQ on VHF, not UHF. The delay is a bummer for me.

Yeah it's a real letdown. On the good side the weather will be better for redoing my antenna setup.

FWIW.....
KSTW TV (CW) is going to delay our transition to digital only broadcasting on physical channel 11 until the June 12, 2009 date as mandated by recent congressional action.
KSTW TV continues to operate a full power digital broadcast on physical channel 36 as it has since July 2002.

R. Diotte
CE, KSTW

The "official" word from our Director of Engineering: KCTS 9 Seattle WILL NOT CEASE ANALOG TRANSMISSION ON FEBRUARY 17, 2009 but will extend analog transmission until June 12, 2009 per the latest congressional action.

KCTS 9 will continue to operate a full power digital station on physical channel 41.

Is it my setup or is DTV Komo 4-1 off the air tonight??

Also, thank you 'engineers' (tschall, rdiotte, and others) for taking to time to engage with use 'consumers' and provide 'official' feedback.

Location SE corner of Fife near Puyallup River

Signal Path = (2edge, 28 - 29mi for all Seattle stations) -> VHF/UHF (like an old cm3016 style, mounted in my attic) -> 18db amp -> cm7000 -> s-video 27" crt

Worst channel is 50% with occasional dropouts if Sea-Tac is landing from the South and the decent flight path cause the planes to fly low over my house. ;-/

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2977/screenshot001ra5.png

KOMO-TV is currently off the air due to a technical problem. Engineers are working to fix the issue.

KOMO-TV is currently off the air due to a technical problem. Engineers are working to fix the issue.

Thanks Mike!

..... For reasons too complex to explain here, I've geared my antenna setup to receive KCPQ on VHF, not UHF. The delay is a bummer for me.

Me, too. I have my VHF-HiBand antenna all set to install, expecting better reception in my area for 9, 11 and 13 than my current UHF setup. Bummer.

Does anyone know if KCPQ is broadcasting at full strength on the digital channel 18 (13.1), and if this is the same output level that they will have on channel 13 after they transition?

I'm in a bad spot to receive it, at the bottom of an east-facing hill. I can pick up analog 13, but the picture isn't really good enough to call it "watchable". My HD tuner will tell me that it found something on 18, but it doesn't get enough of a signal to add it during the scan. :(

Does anyone know if KCPQ is broadcasting at full strength on the digital channel 18 (13.1), and if this is the same output level that they will have on channel 13 after they transition?

I'm in a bad spot to receive it, at the bottom of an east-facing hill. I can pick up analog 13, but the picture isn't really good enough to call it "watchable". My HD tuner will tell me that it found something on 18, but it doesn't get enough of a signal to add it during the scan. :(

I'm far from an expert... but from what I can see they are operating on 18 at their 30kw licensed amount.

As with 9, they will be using/trading their current analog 13 frequency range for digital transmission once they shut off the analog signal.

FCC records also appear to list the height for the analog 13 antenna about 25 feet higher than 18 AND since it will be a lower frequency, you might find a slight improvement.

All that said, like most things, you won't fully know until it happens. You also have to factor the effect of other stations changing their outputs as well so nothing is for sure.

If you haven't already.. check out www (dot) tvfool (dot) com , enter your address and take a look at the chart. You will see an option to see 'post transition' vs. 'pre transition' estimated signal levels.

Hope it helps.

Does anyone know if KCPQ is broadcasting at full strength on the digital channel 18 (13.1), and if this is the same output level that they will have on channel 13 after they transition?

I'm in a bad spot to receive it, at the bottom of an east-facing hill. I can pick up analog 13, but the picture isn't really good enough to call it "watchable". My HD tuner will tell me that it found something on 18, but it doesn't get enough of a signal to add it during the scan. :(

They're doing 600 kW from a side-mounted antenna on channel 18. When the transition occurs, KCPQ will operate channel 13 at 30 kW from their top-mounted antenna. Because of VHF's propagation characteristics, this signal should carry further and be stronger than the channel 18 signal.

- Trip

The P-I had an updated list of station DTV transition plans this morning.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/399028_digitaltv06.html

June 12:
KING/KONG
KOMO
KCTS

Undecided:
KIRO
KCPQ

On Wednesday, KIRO had announced its intent to go ahead with the switch on Feb 17, saying that many Seattle stations were planning to do so as well. It turns out the other stations had not decided on the early date and KIRO is now re-thinking its plans.

The P-I had an updated list of station DTV transition plans this morning.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/399028_digitaltv06.html

June 12:
KING/KONG
KOMO
KCTS

Undecided:
KIRO
KCPQ

On Wednesday, KIRO had announced its intent to go ahead with the switch on Feb 17, saying that many Seattle stations were planning to do so as well. It turns out the other stations had not decided on the early date and KIRO is now re-thinking its plans.

And KSTW announced here that they're also waiting until June 12 ....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15748298#post15748298

Looks like KIRO will be going it alone if they stick with their decision to transition on Feb 17.

KOMO-TV is currently off the air due to a technical problem. Engineers are working to fix the issue.

There is a story on KIRO's web site saying that a power surge at a substation on Queen Anne hill caused problems for all three transmitters located there.

I've been getting okay signal strength of ATSC reception with my Samsung HDTV of major channels. Channel 4 barley gets in, 5 and 7 come in pretty good, 11 and 13 come and go. I recently bought a Pinnacle PC-HDTV tuner card for my PC. I loaded the ATSC software that comes along with this card (which sucks smelly butt crack), and reviewed the signal strength of the major channels. They are all above 50%? 4, 11, and 13 come into my PC really good.

My setup is:
Outdoor Antenna on my Roof: CM-4228HD, connected by via cable input into my house. I dismounted the Comcast cable and mounted the the cable line from my antenna. My PC is upstairs in my house, and the TV is downstairs.

Here are my two questions:
1. Why the difference in signal strength? Is this hardware driven? Software? Locations of my TV and PC in my house?
I plan on putting my TV upstairs and moving my PC downstairs if I get the same results.

2. Anyone know of any good Windows Xp ATSC PC software? The Pinnacle TVpro keeps lagging and freezing my PC. I've read a few on the forums, but wanted something that someone around here has used that is reliable and fast.
I heard Sage TV is pretty good, I am interested in trying it myself. I have a Hauppauge 2250 and it works "ok" once I finish my new computer build I will try it again for OTA.

Hi folks,
I started building a Gray-Hoverman antenna as a science project with my son. I will be directly comparing reception with it the Puyallup valley vs. my CM 4221. I am in a horrible location so if this can give me consistancy on the channels I currently get intermitenly it will be a huge win.
Also, If I can get it done before the transition I can do some before and after comparisons. (there has been a recent breakthrough for channels 7-13 so I will experiment with that design)
We picked up copper wire for the build.. and are bending/straightening the driving and reflecting elements.

Anyone know any tricks how to get that stuff (copper wire)straightend back out?
OGK

And KSTW announced here that they're also waiting until June 12 ....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15748298#post15748298

Looks like KIRO will be going it alone if they stick with their decision to transition on Feb 17.

If they really want to wake people up to the transition, all the local stations should have a one day shutdown of their analog signals on Feb. 17. I suspect that might do more for public awareness than all the ads.

The White House wants your opinion on The DTV Delay ACT Bill
President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

If they really want to wake people up to the transition, all the local stations should have a one day shutdown of their analog signals on Feb. 17. I suspect that might do more for public awareness than all the ads.

Of course, there's always the chance no-one would notice. That might do something for government awareness.

The White House wants your opinion on The DTV Delay ACT Bill
President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

Unfortunately that site limits comments to 500 words :D

I responded, but had to edit it down quite a bit.

The White House wants your opinion on The DTV Delay ACT Bill
President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

Do you have a link to this? I can't find a single mention of it anywhere. One would think such a big thing would be all over the news. In fact, Obama promised to sign the legislation, and he's the one who started all this, so why would he suddenly go back on one of his promises so soon after taking office? And I see you are posting the exact same thing (cut and paste) in multiple city topics here. I think you are exaggerating about his "Sunlight" policy of posting about *ALL* non-emergency bills (nothing specific about this one) a few days before signing, just trying to push your agenda, a kind-of shady last minute petition you are trying to trick people into.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to leave a comment there, but you should have been more honest about just pointing out that the government now has a place setup where people can comment about bills, though it probably won't affect anything (his Sunlight policy is more about transparency, letting people see what he's up to than getting anybody's opinion).