1.) What do you consider to be your "best rig?"

LG 42" LCD.

2.) What do you consider to be your "least rig?"

32" LCD, don't remember the brand, bought it used.

3.) What do you do a majority of your watching on?

The 42" LG.

4.) Do you acquire most of your signals via cable, satellite, OTA or something else?

MythTV system, with a combination of OTA and FIOS via HD-PVR. My setup prefers OTA for local channels, since they are higher picture quality than the same channels from FIOS via the HD-PVR.

Now, I suppose it is possible that the set could take everything it receives, 1080i, 1080p, 720p, analog or whatever and pump it through some sort of decode/encode process. But what would be the point of running a 720p signal through a decode/encode process to drive a 720p display? Or am I missing something here?

That was the heart of my question, i.e., what would be the point of running a 720p signal through a decode/encode process to drive a 720p display? The rest of the question is, is this what happens in any product? Or would any manufacturer really decode 720p, then recode for a 720p display as part of the algorithm since that is the process they would go through for any other source format, i.e, 480i, 1080i, 1080p?

I suspect none of us will ever know. The design engineers of the proprietary systems are probably the only folks that know for sure. But hopefully they designed a bypass into the firmware for the decode/recode process for 720p to 720p and 1080p to 1080p (or 1080i to 1080i for a CRT display).

Don't they still have some overscan to eliminate?

That was the heart of my question, i.e., what would be the point of running a 720p signal through a decode/encode process to drive a 720p display? The rest of the question is, is this what happens in any product? Or would any manufacturer really decode 720p, then recode for a 720p display as part of the algorithm since that is the process they would go through for any other source format, i.e, 480i, 1080i, 1080p?

I suspect none of us will ever know. The design engineers of the proprietary systems are probably the only folks that know for sure. But hopefully they designed a bypass into the firmware for the decode/recode process for 720p to 720p and 1080p to 1080p (or 1080i to 1080i for a CRT display).

Right, but the question was vague so I don't know what you mean by encode/decode here. No display that I am aware of is going to be re-compressing content for any reason, since there's no reason to do that.

Most any current display will scale to the native resolution, and usually in the default mode this includes overscan, so you're not getting 720 directly to a 720p display because it's zoomed in a little bit. But most displays also have a 'native' or 'dot-by-dot' type mode that will not overscan and will map 720p or 1080p directly to the panel without any additional scaling. This works great for sources like DVD or BD, but with broadcast/cable/sat because there's often junk at the edges sometimes it's best to use overscan modes anyway so you don't see the junk. Some displays, because of the temporal lag of any video processing features, may also have something like a 'game' mode to bypass any scaling if you're inputting the native resolution so the display doesn't lag at all, which is an important feature for gamers. And a few displays have a native mode that will bypass all scaling even if the resolution is not the native resolution of the display, but obviously if you're inputting a lower resolution then you're going to get a tiny postage stamp of an image at whatever resolution you've input.

As I mentioned above, more common is that a display will move back to component video from RGB if you feed it RGB, to implement color controls. This is not always the case, though, and many better displays don't do this they'll just stay in RGB. And even if they do move to component, hopefully you can zero things out so there is no impact. These days display manufacturers are usually handling color decoding correctly, so even if they move to component it's not bad. It used to be far more common for displays to do color decoding altogether wrong(particularly red push), and if it was taking everything back to component then there wasn't really any way around this.

But today it's rather common to be able to map things natively to a 720p or 1080p panel as long as you have things setup properly. My system is a perfect pixel-for-pixel map for 1080p for instance, and I can resolve one-pixel patterns.

You can know this all by testing the display with test patterns, to see what's going on. There are even some nifty PC programs that you can use to test the temporal lag time of the processing in the display if you're concerned about latency there for instance, or need to time the audio system to the display.

Display dimensions

The above technical discussions by ChrisWiggles, GE AVS, and others has helped me understand more than I thought possible. However, I'm still in the dark about display dimensions and how that can affect the usage of Mbps, etc. How do the engineers of a station decide to use 528x480 instead of 704x480 or 720x480, for example. Is it purely at random or is there wizardry involved?

Display dimensions

The above technical discussions by ChrisWiggles, GE AVS, and others has helped me understand more than I thought possible. However, I'm still in the dark about display dimensions and how that can affect the usage of Mbps, etc. How do the engineers of a station decide to use 528x480 instead of 704x480 or 720x480, for example. Is it purely at random or is there wizardry involved?

Usually when I make such a decision I put on a little pointy hat, draw a pentragram in the dirt and say this little chant..... Oh, you were looking for a straight answer? Hmmmm..... OK then.

Take a look here: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/what_is_ATSC.html

First off, it is important to understand that ATSC is a subset of MPEG and does not include all of the available mpeg resolutions. For example: 528 * 480 and 720 * 480 are not ATSC compliant resolutions but are MPEG compliant resolutions. That leaves us pretty much 640 * 480 or 704 * 480 for SD video. Take your pick. I've used both. With the current crop of encoders I've not noticed a whole lot of difference at the bit rates currently employed.

Many current STB's employ generic MPEG decoder chips that will decode just about anything you throw at them within certain bounds. This is how some stations get away with things like 528 * 480. But just because I can send it and you can decode it does not make it ATSC compliant.

So, to answer your question, there is neither wizardry nor randomness involved. I went back and forth repeatedly between the two ATSC compliant SD standards at everything from about 2.0 to 18 Mbps and couldn't notice significant difference between 640 * 480 and 704 * 480. Once I got below about 2.5 Mbps though the slower I went the more of a difference it did make. Once I got down into the 1.0 - 1.2 Mbps range it made A LOT of difference. But at that bit rate I wouldn't wish the results of either on anyone.

Since you asked, here's a couple of pics.....

Thanks Tschall. That answered a lot. That's a great link you posted.

Myron,

Great photos! Here is one special before photo and the rest are after photos.

Jim

Nice pics! I'll have to go check it out when I'm back in the area in a week.

I wonder why the construction permit specifies an antenna from a different manufacturer? I know the FCC database isn't always the most accurate so there must have been some sort of modification.

Nice pics! I'll have to go check it out when I'm back in the area in a week.

I wonder why the construction permit specifies an antenna from a different manufacturer? I know the FCC database isn't always the most accurate so there must have been some sort of modification.

Not sure what you mean. That looks like a Dielectric slot antenna to me. I know someone said it was an Andrew/ERI and it may indeed be the case, but from the photo it doesn't look like your typical Andrew/ERI.

Not sure what you mean. That looks like a Dielectric slot antenna to me. I know someone said it was an Andrew/ERI and it may indeed be the case, but from the photo it doesn't look like your typical Andrew/ERI.

Well, we know it's not a Bogner. It's not ugly and green. It only took one truck to deliver and the tower remained standing after the crew put it up.

Well, we know it's not a Bogner. It's not ugly and green. It only took one truck to deliver and the tower remained standing after the crew put it up.
It is indeed an ERI antenna -- omni-directional with eliptical radiation (20% vertical power).

Is KCPQ having problem tonight? All I get is a black screen both on 22-2 and Directv (I can't receive 13-1 directly).

Is KCPQ having problem tonight? All I get is a black screen both on 22-2 and Directv (I can't receive 13-1 directly).

Now 2106. Both 13-1 and 22-2 look 'good' here in the Eastgate area of Bellevue.

Now 2106. Both 13-1 and 22-2 look 'good' here in the Eastgate area of Bellevue.

I'm getting it now on Directv but not with the add-on OTA tuner. I get that subchannel on the Vizio directly and my other Directv receiver recorded House. Strange, that was the only channel affected :confused:

rdn,

No reception problems here receiving KCPQ-13 (I receive it LOS on a CM-4228). Since I experienced no problems, I had no reason to look at the 'diagnostics screen' on my TV, so I cannot say if there was any change at all. Sorry ... not much help, huh. Please keep us posted.

Jim

Edit: I just checked on my 'compromised' basement setup and all is copesetic here.

The issue I had with channels 13 and 22-2 was resolved by rebooting my Directv DVR. :rolleyes:

Something’s changed and I need to move my antenna again.
I plan on putting the CM4228 back up on the roof without it’s screen where I can get everything from Canada to Tacoma and Bremerton to Issaquah except for KCTS and KSTW. Nova and Sonic are a big part of my 8 year-old’s life so I’ve been struggling to get this right ever since we dropped Dish.
I can get VHF 9 and 11 (KCTS and KSTW) with a simple dipole in the NE corner of my attic. Should I just get a simple VHF/UHF combiner and put the dipole and CM4228 together with it or do I need to block those frequencies from the CM4228 as well. The answer before digital TV would be, “of course you need a notch filter, idiot.” But now I don’t know. Where do I find a good notch filter anyway?

Something’s changed and I need to move my antenna again.
I plan on putting the CM4228 back up on the roof without it’s screen where I can get everything from Canada to Tacoma and Bremerton to Issaquah except for KCTS and KSTW. Nova and Sonic are a big part of my 8 year-old’s life so I’ve been struggling to get this right ever since we dropped Dish.
I can get VHF 9 and 11 (KCTS and KSTW) with a simple dipole in the NE corner of my attic. Should I just get a simple VHF/UHF combiner and put the dipole and CM4228 together with it or do I need to block those frequencies from the CM4228 as well. The answer before digital TV would be, “of course you need a notch filter, idiot.” But now I don’t know. Where do I find a good notch filter anyway?

You don't mention your location but evidentally it's fairly adventagous. At any rate, The fly in your ointment now is channel 13. Channels 9 & 11 are at the same site, more or less. Channel 13 is off in the boondocks near Bremerton. However, 9, 11 and 13 are actually on physical channels 9, 11 and 13. So a simple VHF/UHF combiner ought to do the trick. No notch filter necessary. As far as "good" notch filters go, I prefer Blonder/Tounge or custom built filters from some of the broadcast manufacturers. The later tends to be very expensive though.

I am having trouble with 13.1. What type of antenna is needed for this station. I receive 22.2, but not 13.1. More info below if you'd like to help out.

I'm a n00b when it comes to PVR and OTA television. I just setup my htpc a few weeks ago. It has a Hauppauge 2250 and a Hauppauge 1290. I'm running window 7 media center. I have a cheap uhf/vhf antenna from monoprice.com placed in the middle of my south facing window of our 3rd floor apartment a few blocks north of Gasworks park in Seattle. I have comcast basic cable running to the hauppauge 1290, and the OTA antenna running to the hauppauge 2250. The 2250 is detected in media center as two "Digital Antenna (ATSC)" because its a dual tuner card. I get other local HD channels correctly (4.1, 5.1, 7.1, etc) but 13.1 does not come in. I don't get any picture, just the blue windows media center background then an error box that says no service. I DO get 22.2, but it doesn't look like its HD like the other local channels.

Am I doing something wrong? Any help is appreciated.

Or have more become frustrated and just gone to ADS? (cable or satellite).

Or they just don't have TV anymore.

I am having trouble with 13.1. What type of antenna is needed for this station. I receive 22.2, but not 13.1. More info below if you'd like to help out.

I'm a n00b when it comes to PVR and OTA television. I just setup my htpc a few weeks ago. It has a Hauppauge 2250 and a Hauppauge 1290. I'm running window 7 media center. I have a cheap uhf/vhf antenna from monoprice.com placed in the middle of my south facing window of our 3rd floor apartment a few blocks north of Gasworks park in Seattle. I have comcast basic cable running to the hauppauge 1290, and the OTA antenna running to the hauppauge 2250. The 2250 is detected in media center as two "Digital Antenna (ATSC)" because its a dual tuner card. I get other local HD channels correctly (4.1, 5.1, 7.1, etc) but 13.1 does not come in. I don't get any picture, just the blue windows media center background then an error box that says no service. I DO get 22.2, but it doesn't look like its HD like the other local channels.

Am I doing something wrong? Any help is appreciated.

Channel 13 (13.1 & 13.2) is located on Gold Mtn. outside of Bremerton along with KTBW 20 (14.1 - 14.5). Given your location and an indoor antenna I wouldn't hold my breath on channel 13. 22.2 is a 1280 * 720p (HD) signal although it currently shows a bit less than 7Mbps. In other words it's throttled back pretty good. 13.1 is still 1280 * 720 but is considerably faster, about 14 Mbps right this minute.

Good luck.

Great, another dual HD station. Any chance I can get some TSReader data on it?

- Trip

Channel 13 (13.1 & 13.2) is located on Gold Mtn. outside of Bremerton along with KTBW 20 (14.1 - 14.5). Given your location and an indoor antenna I wouldn't hold my breath on channel 13. 22.2 is a 1280 * 720p (HD) signal although it currently shows a bit less than 7Mbps. In other words it's throttled back pretty good. 13.1 is still 1280 * 720 but is considerably faster, about 14 Mbps right this minute.

Good luck.

Thanks for your help. Your description makes sense. The thing that keeps bothering me is that I could have sworn that I received the station the first day I was messing with media center, before I installed the second tuner card. I was also plugged directly into my cable at the time, so could I have been receiving 13.1 via clearQAM and mistaked it for OTA reception? Thanks again for your help.

are you splitting the antenna feed with an additional line now? Each split in the line from the antenna cuts the signal in half. so if you had the antenna hooked up to one card with one feed then it might have come in. When you added the second card and second feed then the signal to either tuner is half. maybe a pre-amp near the antenna would help.

are you splitting the antenna feed with an additional line now? Each split in the line from the antenna cuts the signal in half. so if you had the antenna hooked up to one card with one feed then it might have come in. When you added the second card and second feed then the signal to either tuner is half. maybe a pre-amp near the antenna would help.

You're correct. I do have the antenna split right now. I'll have to fix that. In hope's of avoiding the cost of a pre-amp, I was brainstorming over lunch... how would this work: Connect the antenna directly to a card (no split), allowing me to view OTA digital broadcasts. Then, split my comcast cable line before the converter box. One lead goes to a tuner card for QAM stations, and the other lead goes through the converter box for cable stations. Would this setup allow me to get 13.1 via clearQAM if I still don't receive it via the antenna? Thanks for the continued responses. You guys are the brain trust.

Thanks for your help. Your description makes sense. The thing that keeps bothering me is that I could have sworn that I received the station the first day I was messing with media center, before I installed the second tuner card. I was also plugged directly into my cable at the time, so could I have been receiving 13.1 via clearQAM and mistaked it for OTA reception? Thanks again for your help.

Absolutly. That's an easy mistake to make. Comcast, for all their other baggage, does carry enough of the PSIP through so that appropriatly equipped TV sets can put 13.1 on 13.1 instead of whatever ClearQAM cluster they appear on.

Great, another dual HD station. Any chance I can get some TSReader data on it?

- Trip

Sure. What, exactly, would you like?

I like HTML Exports with all data included except for EIT and Thumbnails.

- Trip

I like HTML Exports with all data included except for EIT and Thumbnails.

- Trip

OK, it's attached.

Thanks. :)

- Trip

Thanks. :)

- Trip

Ya know, just out of curiosity, what do ya do with it? I can think of lots of things to collect and this is nowhere on the list.

I use them to provide the technical data found on RabbitEars. I also post the raw data on RabbitEars.

For example, here's a link to the now-updated KMYQ: http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=kmyq

Sadly, I'm still missing data for Yakima, the Tri Cities, and Spokane. At some point I'll need fully updated data for all of the Seattle stations, but even if I asked for it now, I don't have the time to deal with it because of school sucking up all my time.

- Trip

I use them to provide the technical data found on RabbitEars. I also post the raw data on RabbitEars.

For example, here's a link to the now-updated KMYQ: http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=kmyq

Sadly, I'm still missing data for Yakima, the Tri Cities, and Spokane. At some point I'll need fully updated data for all of the Seattle stations, but even if I asked for it now, I don't have the time to deal with it because of school sucking up all my time.

- Trip

Got it. I get to Yakima occasionally. I'll try and remember to capture data the next time I'm there.

Got it. I get to Yakima occasionally. I'll try and remember to capture data the next time I'm there.

I assumed. KYVE and all that. :)

Any chance you could grab KBTC for me? I haven't gotten new data on them since they moved to HD. I greatly appreciate it.

- Trip

I assumed. KYVE and all that. :)

Any chance you could grab KBTC for me? I haven't gotten new data on them since they moved to HD. I greatly appreciate it.

- Trip

I'll try and get KBTC the next time I'm down that way. I don't actually receive them anywhere I frequent a lot.

No worries. It's not a huge priority, I was just wondering if you could. :)

- Trip

Was in West Seattle with a TV microwave van this morning for the express purpose of scanning the HDTV and DTV box so we could be assured of getting all the channels that our news show runs on. While there, I discovered somebody new- KRUM-TV! They show as being licensed to Olympia, so they are probably transmitting from their site in the south sound. Looking at their pattern, they really don't get anywhere near West Seattle, but being on the hill with the water towers must have helped. Along with all the Puget Sound stations (except the Three Angels station on 8/73) I also pulled in KBCB and KVOS from Bellingham, along with the KSTW analog translator on 62. Here are some pictures:

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t172/valvashon/th_KRUM1.jpg (http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t172/valvashon/?action=view&current=KRUM1.jpg)
In screen filling 16:9; couldn't tell if they were actually in HD

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t172/valvashon/th_krum2.jpg (http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t172/valvashon/?action=view&current=krum2.jpg)
OK signal strength, excellent signal quality

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t172/valvashon/th_krum3.jpg (http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t172/valvashon/?action=view&current=krum3.jpg)

KRUM is not in HD, just wide SD.

I'll pass the report along to the owner. He'll be pleased to hear.

- Trip

Was in West Seattle with a TV microwave van this morning for the express purpose of scanning the HDTV and DTV box so we could be assured of getting all the channels that our news show runs on. While there, I discovered somebody new- KRUM-TV! They show as being licensed to Olympia, so they are probably transmitting from their site in the south sound. Looking at their pattern, they really don't get anywhere near West Seattle, but being on the hill with the water towers must have helped.

They might start showing up on a quite a few more screens: some time ago, they got a CP to change their COL to Renton, their TX site to one of the Capitol Hill towers, to move to Ch. 24 and to triple their power.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=67956

They might start showing up on a quite a few more screens: some time ago, they got a CP to change their COL to Renton, their TX site to one of the Capitol Hill towers, to move to Ch. 24 and to triple their power.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=67956

The CP is for the Richland Tower stick on Capital Hill. The one that hosts channel 11.

I'm using a Radio Shack VU-190XR (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/VU-190XR.html) to pick up the high-VHF channels (9, 11 and 13 specifically). It's working well for this purpose bit it's more than a little on the big side. So I had a thought.

Proposal. remove the larger elements from the rear of the antenna to lighten to load. WIth the understanding that these are mainly to pick up low-VHF channels.

So, my question is, Would this work?

Zyland,

Thanks for the link. Being a 'multiband' antenna, the elements on your antenna were placed where they are using complex math equations with the intent that they would contribute to reception more than detract from reception over a wide range of frequencies.

In my opinion, giving your antenna a 'haircut' might make no difference at all because the spacing of the newly cut elements isn't also being changed, so it likely would not improve either high-band VHF or UHF at all.

Also, odds are the second element at the 'rear' of your antenna is the driven element and it cannot be removed! Cut, yes.

Jim

PS There is a NEW old style Channel Master 4221 currently for sale on Craigslist, locally. Great for UHF and depending on your location, possibly as good as you have now for VHF.

Zyland,

Thanks for the link. Being a 'multiband' antenna, the elements on your antenna were placed where they are using complex math equations with the intent that they would contribute to reception more than detract from reception over a wide range of frequencies.

In my opinion, giving your antenna a 'haircut' might make no difference at all because the spacing of the newly cut elements isn't also being changed, so it likely would not improve either high-band VHF or UHF at all.

Also, odds are the second element at the 'rear' of your antenna is the driven element and it cannot be removed! Cut, yes.

Jim

PS There is a NEW old style Channel Master 4221 currently for sale on Craigslist, locally. Great for UHF and depending on your location, possibly as good as you have now for VHF.
Thanks Jim,

I'm already using a CM 4221 for the UHF channels. I'm using a VHF/UHF combiner to join them. Before 9/11/13 moved to VHF, the CM 4221 was my only antenna. I put the RS back up to get a better 9/11/13. It's working well but the RS is just very large.

Any suggestions for a smallish high-VHF only antenna?

Thanks Jim,

I'm already using a CM 4221 for the UHF channels. I'm using a VHF/UHF combiner to join them. Before 9/11/13 moved to VHF, the CM 4221 was my only antenna. I put the RS back up to get a better 9/11/13. It's working well but the RS is just very large.

Any suggestions for a smallish high-VHF only antenna?

AntennaCraft 5-Element Yagi
Antennas Direct C5
Winegard 6-Element Yagi

All three are medium gain high-VHF antennas.

The VHF portion of that RS antenna is a log-periodic, so there is no single "driven" element, such as you would find in a Yagi array. I haven't actually tried it, but you could probably remove some of the longer elements without impacting the performance at channel 9 and above.

In a log-periodic, only the 3-4 elements which are close to a half-wavelength are actually being used. A half-wavelength at channel 9 is about 31 inches, so if you removed any elements longer than ~20 inches (either side of the boom) the performance probably wouldn't be noticeably affected. The crossed interconnecting wires feeding the removed elements should also be removed.

A VHF-high antenna would probably be a better solution, however.

Thank for the reply ProjectSHO89 and Bob,

I checked out the Antennacraft and Winegard which both were on the large side (100" to 120"). The Antennas Direct Clearstream 5 (http://www.antennasdirect.com/C5-Clearstream-DTV-antenna.html) was smaller and I'm interested. A bit on the pricey side at $120.

Size is an issue because even when I tighten the mast down to the point that I worried about overtightening, the large antenna acts as a sail and over time (months), the wind will actually turn the antenna. I was just on the roof yesterday repositioning it.

So, I was thinking of surgery to make the sail smaller. Still haven't decided.

Thanks for the ideas everyone.

The theater is very nice, medium-sized and it should be a perfect venue for his show. There is plenty of parking.
Jim
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.b-townblog.com/2010/03/29/red-green-is-coming-to-buriens-performing-arts-center-may-23rd/

Since its' been so sleepy on the Forum, here's something from 1975 that should bring back memories for the long time locals: J.P. Patches trying to tie Harry Wappler's shoe laces together during his afternoon weathercast on KIRO-7. Not really a blooper, just the best of many practical jokes the Anchor, staff and camera crews played on each other. Enjoy! :D

YouTube - Harry Wappler Classic Blooper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejbgjp4Q0dE&feature=related)

Jim

There are a couple of reports on the Comcast forum of some severe pixellation problems with KIRO last night during Criminal Minds and Letterman. Just curious if there were problems for people watching KIRO OTA, or if the problems are limited to Comcast.

Now that KIRO and KOMO have moved their transmitter to the top, how about KING ? Has anyone heard a peep out of them - they don't answer the question by e-mail.

Now that KIRO and KOMO have moved their transmitter to the top, how about KING ? Has anyone heard a peep out of them - they don't answer the question by e-mail.
----------------------------------------------------------
forum junkie,

According to the REC Networks website http://cdbs.recnet.com/fmq.php?facid=34847&jaws=0 KING was granted a construction permit 07/10/09. A couple months ago I talked to the leadman of the crew that is working on the KOMO tower and I asked him about KING. He said they were still in the engineering phase of the project and it had not yet been offered for bid.

Jim

Fisher history

Sunday evening KOMO aired "Fisher Centennial", a look back at the first 100 years of the company that owns Fisher and KOMO. It was great to see some faces and video clips from the past. I would hope that KOMO will air this program at least another time in the near future for those that didin't catch it last night.

EDIT: KOMO will repeat the Fisher Centennial on Sunday April 18, at 8 pm on 4.2, not on the main 4.1 channel.

I'm seeing some steam pick up for Mobile TV (ATSC-M/H) with Washington D.C. ramping up.

Is KOMO still broadcasting ATSC-M/H?

Cheers,
Kermee

I'm seeing some steam pick up for Mobile TV (ATSC-M/H) with Washington D.C. ramping up.

Is KOMO still broadcasting ATSC-M/H?

Cheers,
Kermee

I think so, there is something on PID 0x0041 that is 2.74 Mbps. I can't get it to play with VLC or anything else. Does anyone know if there is any software that will play the stream?

0x0041 should be the video for 4-2.

ATSC-M/H would be 0x1ff9. No existing software will play it, to my knowledge.

- Trip

0x0041 should be the video for 4-2.

ATSC-M/H would be 0x1ff9. No existing software will play it, to my knowledge.

- Trip

Just realized that I had the wrong PID. 0x1ff9 is broadcasting at 5.5 Mbps.

Wow, that's pretty sizable. I wonder how many video feeds they're putting out and what programming.

- Trip

I'm seeing some steam pick up for Mobile TV (ATSC-M/H) with Washington D.C. ramping up.

Is KOMO still broadcasting ATSC-M/H?

Cheers,
Kermee
KOMO-TV is a "model station" of the OMVC (Open Mobile Video Coalition) and is transmitting three Mobile-Handheld streams (now called MobileDTV or MDTV). The three program streams are statistically multiplexed together and use about 5-Mb/s of the DTV signal. KOMO was the first station in the nation to transmit the final/new A153 standard as of last October. Expect MDTV to be available to the general public between the end of summer and Thanksgiving. Various electronics manufacturers have been all around Puget Sound on and off for several months testing their products for reception characteristics prior to production. Fisher's 100-years of "service & innovation" slogan certainly applies here.

In several locations I saw some of the new M/H devices at NAB last week. Speaking purely from a personal perspective, I'm concerned that the average gadget-oriented consumer won't be interested in purchasing one of these devices to receive local TV stations. The devices are still pretty bulky, especially with the telescoping or 'rubber duck' style antennas that protrude from the device.

When I can stream the Final Four broadcast live on my IPhone while sitting on the train, why would I go out and purchase a separate portable TV set?

In several locations I saw some of the new M/H devices at NAB last week. Speaking purely from a personal perspective, I'm concerned that the average gadget-oriented consumer won't be interested in purchasing one of these devices to receive local TV stations. The devices are still pretty bulky, especially with the telescoping or 'rubber duck' style antennas that protrude from the device.

When I can stream the Final Four broadcast live on my IPhone while sitting on the train, why would I go out and purchase a separate portable TV set?

Kelly, you're reading from the same book as my CEO. I think if I understand your question correctly I might also ask, "What is the business plan?" He tells me that I will have it tomorrow as soon as I can show a viable business plan for it.

Personally, I want short form programming aimed at kids streamed to the backseat of my mini-van..... But wait, I already have that from the satellite. Not to mention the iPods and the DVD changer. A good stream of short form >>>LOCAL<<< news would be good.

Please Mr. Broadcaster, give me something I can't get from the satellite, the internet, the iPod or my DVD changer. That sort of programming, not technology in any form, is what will save broadcasting.

When I can stream the Final Four broadcast live on my IPhone while sitting on the train, why would I go out and purchase a separate portable TV set?

Because when every person in Seattle wants to stream the Final Four live on their phones at the same time, the infrastructure will come to a screeching, smoking halt. There's not enough bandwidth to feed individual streams to each phone out there.

That's what broadcast is good for. If everyone's watching the same thing at the same time, the best thing to do is to transmit once, receive many times.

Mobile DTV will be good for sporting events, local news, weather, and traffic information, and other live, local programs that people can't get online or will want to watch simultaneously.

- Trip

I agree Tim. Just as it was with HD, broadcasters need to move away from direct involvement with technology and more to their roots of producing relevant content that people want. Viewers don't watch TV because they care about TV as an industry, it's all about what's on. As a business, no TV station in the country has seen ANY benefit from going HD. No increased ratings nor revenue. Was there an increased expense? You bet! It all just happened to occur at the same time as the government mandated conversion to DTV.

The fact is that some Schmoo like me can use my Sling player app on my IPhone and watch live TV from either my system in my home in Seattle, or Washington DC, to me makes the whole Mobile TV discussion, moot.

Based on what I've seen with all the factors for reliable DTV reception with fixed antennas; I don't hold out much hope that this will work reliably, or with adequate coverage in a mobile or automotive environment without a variable-gain, GPS or AGPS tracking enabled antenna attached to the roof of a moving car.

Asia has been doing mobile TV for years, but the US fell behind the curve when it was decided that a whole new method would be invented for the US domestic Mobile TV platform. And why was that done? Because the US is the only broadcaster that went to the 8VSB modulation standard for DTV. Yet another example of; 'not invented here'.

I agree Tim. Just as it was with HD, broadcasters need to move away from direct involvement with technology and more to their roots of producing relevant content that people want. Viewers don't watch TV because they care about TV as an industry, it's all about what's on. As a business, no TV station in the country has seen ANY benefit from going HD. No increased ratings nor revenue. Was there an increased expense? You bet! It all just happened to occur at the same time as the government mandated conversion to DTV.

The fact is that some Schmoo like me can use my Sling player app on my IPhone and watch live TV from either my system in my home in Seattle, or Washington DC, to me makes the whole Mobile TV discussion, moot.

Based on what I've seen with all the factors for reliable DTV reception with fixed antennas; I don't hold out much hope that this will work reliably, or with adequate coverage in a mobile or automotive environment without a variable-gain, GPS or AGPS tracking enabled antenna attached to the roof of a moving car.

Asia has been doing mobile TV for years, but the US fell behind the curve when it was decided that a whole new method would be invented for the US domestic Mobile TV platform. And why was that done? Because the US is the only broadcaster that went to the 8VSB modulation standard for DTV. Yet another example of; 'not invented here'.

You should have seen the dirty looks I got at a staff meeting a few weeks ago when I said, "The business of broadcasting as we know it is dead. It just hasn't fallen over yet."

What we need to do is move away from being a 'TV station' to being a content provider. I don't really give a flying rat how the viewer gets my content as long as they get and watch it.

As others have already pointed out here, I envision the broadcast station being used for what it is good for. One to many. The live sporting event, the local breaking news story, the season premiere of 'House' or '24' or 'Doc Martin' or whatever. You want the 3rd episode of 'House' from last season? Use the internet or whatever.

Blah. Speaking of which I have monkeys on my tower doing some clean up and antenna removal. I need to go and check on them.

Blah. Speaking of which I have monkeys on my tower doing some clean up and antenna removal. I need to go and check on them.

Bringing down the old channel 41 stick?

Bringing down the old channel 41 stick?

Nope. Actually, the channel 41 stick is on top. It is now the worlds most expensive beacon support. When those two antennas were purchased over 11 years ago, the technology did not yet exist to build a combined antenna at the power level we required. It was also very difficult to build a channel 41 antenna that would safely support a channel 9 antenna. So the channel 9 antenna ended up on the bottom.

The crew is removing my two old ITFS antennas, their feedlines and some other unused feedlines and antennas. Just some spring cleaning really and nothing that will have any affect on our broadcast operations.

You should have seen the dirty looks I got at a staff meeting a few weeks ago when I said, "The business of broadcasting as we know it is dead. It just hasn't fallen over yet."


I believe that television still has a place in this world, but unlike the past, will need to share eyeballs with other forms of media/delivery.

In my opinion, local stations need to get back to hiring actual reporters and anchors that care about and understand the news they report, can read something other than a teleprompter and then are able to communicate it to the viewers. Not just the latest weather-babe, sports-babe, or traffic-babe.

What we have now are loads of fluff pieces about makeup secrets of the stars and how to cut down on using your credit cards, followed by graphics that take up 30% or more of the screen and audio cues..'swoosh! between stories.

There is plenty of important actual news out there. One has to go out and find it. Time to go back to the basics and a local station actually report news within their market, not just a close copy of the competition all speculating whether an earthquake like the one in Haiti can occur in Seattle.

Time for PBS stations to get back into the content business by working with independant producers in a market to create in-depth NOVA or Frontline-like programming focused on their local regions, not just the easy way out of buying programming produced by other PBS stations.

I think the problem is that when a station or group buys equipment or technology, it's a fixed capital cost that may or may not turn into something good, but at least the cost is fixed and the results fall within a known timeframe. When you hire reporters, producers, anchors, etc., then take a chance on the content, it may take years to establish any level of dominance, if at all and becomes an operational expense which shareholders or boards of diretors dislike. Technology is a sexy and hopefully, quick fix. The problem is it ends up providing minimal or no results when it comes to viewership, ratings or revenue.

Okay rant over.

Now the disclaimer... The personal opinions expressed here are that of my own and not of my former or current employer. ;)

I believe that television still has a place in this world, but unlike the past, will need to share eyeballs with other forms of media/delivery.

AMEN Brother Kelly! That's exactly what I was trying to say as well....

Any chance I can get new TSReader data on KONG and KIRO? I hear they've added Mobile DTV...

- Trip

Any chance I can get new TSReader data on KONG and KIRO? I hear they've added Mobile DTV...

- Trip

Trip: If no one else gets it for you I'll do it when I get home tonight.

Tim

Any chance I can get new TSReader data on KONG and KIRO? I hear they've added Mobile DTV...

- Trip

Trip:

Looks like you may have been mistaken or misinformed. HTML stuff is attached.

Interesting, KIRO has it, KONG does not.

Thanks!

- Trip

Trip:

I've attached a new TSReader Lite capture for you for rabbitears. This one is for KCTS. We've made some changes recently to accomodate some datacasting projects. Programs 9 & 10 are not psip'd and are non-presenting streams. Means that they shouldn't show up in receivers.

Tim

Thanks!

You'll likely get some calls from people with non-compliant TV sets asking what 9-9 and 9-10 are. You'll see how I've listed it on RabbitEars specifically because of questions I've taken on that very subject.

- Trip

When did KWPX go to HD? I just noticed it last night on 33-1.

Thanks!

You'll likely get some calls from people with non-compliant TV sets asking what 9-9 and 9-10 are. You'll see how I've listed it on RabbitEars specifically because of questions I've taken on that very subject.

- Trip

I guess the good news is that its been on for two weeks now and we've gotten precisely zero calls on it.

When did KWPX go to HD? I just noticed it last night on 33-1.
This is very recent. The last time I looked last week, it was NOT in HD. Woohoo. That brings the local HD OTA count to 10 (11 if you count the KCPQ translator on KMYQ).

BTW, Verizon FiOS already carries KBTC in HD but Comcast still doesn't. I wonder how long it will take KWPX in HD to make it to Verizon FiOS and Comcast?

I hope they both end up in HD on Directv. I can occasionally receive KWPX OTA here but there's no chance for KBTC.

M/H seen recently on KONG. TSReader export is attached.

Now all I need is a stinking receiver.

M/H seen recently on KONG. TSReader export is attached.

Thanks. :)

Now all I need is a stinking receiver.

You and me both, not that I have a local MDTV station yet.

- Trip

Thanks. :)



You and me both, not that I have a local MDTV station yet.

- Trip

I don't have a receiver either but at least I appear to be collecting stations that are transmitting stuff. I wonder if somebody will fix something like TSReader to receive it.

Thanks Jim,

I'm already using a CM 4221 for the UHF channels. I'm using a VHF/UHF combiner to join them. Before 9/11/13 moved to VHF, the CM 4221 was my only antenna. I put the RS back up to get a better 9/11/13. It's working well but the RS is just very large.

Any suggestions for a smallish high-VHF only antenna?

I've had good results using the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 which can be had cheap through solidsignal.com. I'm 49 miles from the Denver towers and have it mounted in the attic.

Sorry to break in on your topic, but just wanted to pass along some information on the FCC & Broadcast Spectrum.

The following are the links to a two part interview of Jim Goodmon, CEO of Capitol Broadcasting, by Broadcast Engineering Magazine. Jim Goodman was responsible for having the first digital HD television station back in 1996.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dvCwQ1ZAYs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFce7SNf9jw

He talks about former FCC Chairman Reed Hundt’s (Clinton administration) conscious decision to undercut TV broadcasting by purposely delaying the digital transition, and current Chairman Julius Genachowski’s academic mentor’s plan to use oppressive government regulation to eliminate broadcasting.

Based on testimony given by NAB President and CEO Gordon Smith before the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship…

http://www.nab.org/documents/newsroom/pdfs/042710_Small_Biz_Spectrum_Written.pdf

…the FCC is talking out of both sides of their mouth; saying on one hand that their plan to reallocate broadcast spectrum will be strictly voluntary while on the other hand proposing charging broadcasters large fees which would force many broadcasters to “volunteer.” In other words, a backhanded plan to clear the broadcast bands without using proper established procedures.

Also, an interesting article was posted 4/12/2010 on the TVNewsCheck web site.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2010/04/12/daily.2/

It references an interview of Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg, which was given at a CFR general meeting.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/21834

Basic points:

1. Technology will make spectrum use more efficient. (4G, etc.)

2. Efficiency is market driven.

3. The cable industry has bought about 150 MHz over the last 10-15 years that they aren't using.

4. Verizon supporting reallocation of broadcast spectrum would be motivated by selfish self interest, not by need!

Please come join us on the official FCC & Broadcast Spectrum topic:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1216722

Is there anyone who can receive KUSE-LD 46 and might tell me what are on the various subchannels, particularly 46-3?

Thanks. :)

- Trip

Is there anyone who can receive KUSE-LD 46 and might tell me what are on the various subchannels, particularly 46-3?

Thanks. :)

- Trip

46.1-3 don't seem to carry anything. Only 46.4 has some kind of commercial programming.

Thanks. 46-3 used to carry GEMS TV, a home shopping channel, but that service recently went off the air. I was trying to figure out what, if anything, replaced it. :)

- Trip

Thanks!

You'll likely get some calls from people with non-compliant TV sets asking what 9-9 and 9-10 are. You'll see how I've listed it on RabbitEars specifically because of questions I've taken on that very subject.

- Trip

I see in on the Vizio monitors we have in our broadcast trucks. I don't remember if 9-9 and 9-10 just popped up, or if it happened during a re-scan. I haven't seen it on my big Magnetbox at home, but I haven't re-scanned lately.

And I can confirm that 46-1 thru 46-3 are in black and that 46-4 seems to have some sort of infomercial loop on it. I actually pulled in 46 in Tacoma on Monday.

And what's the big deal about ION 33-1 being in HD? Almost their entire day is infomercials, save for the Ghost Whisperer marathon every night. Even though M*A*S*H is in 4x3, it was shot on film. Any chance there would be an HD transfer in the future? I can only assume it would look a lot better than an NTSC transfer- am I right about that?

Val

And what's the big deal about ION 33-1 being in HD? Almost their entire day is infomercials, save for the Ghost Whisperer marathon every night. Even though M*A*S*H is in 4x3, it was shot on film. Any chance there would be an HD transfer in the future? I can only assume it would look a lot better than an NTSC transfer- am I right about that?

Val
The informercial charge is a fair point. Although in ION's defense, they do have 5 hours of HD content during primetime which is a much better batting average than most of the other networks. FTR, ION varies between Ghost Whisperer marathons and Criminal Minds marathons with an occasional NCIS, My Name is Earl or Movie. :)

I tested 4 antennas yesterday and am wondering if anyone knows when K62FS will move to channel 50, per the REC Networks website notice. I am a bit surprised I am able to receive their channel 62 analog signal on my 11-bar 'cut-to-48' Yagi and hopefully, when they make the jump I'll finally capture a signal for '11'. Thanks in advance,

Jim

I tested 4 antennas yesterday and am wondering if anyone knows when K62FS will move to channel 50, per the REC Networks website notice. I am a bit surprised I am able to receive their channel 62 analog signal on my 11-bar 'cut-to-48' Yagi and hopefully, when they make the jump I'll finally capture a signal for '11'. Thanks in advance,

Jim
correction, K62FS application is for physical channel 51. KUNS is on physical channel 50 and remapped to virtual channel 51.

Good Lord willin' and the creek don't rise, KCTS will be flash-cutting our K18AD translator on Mission Ridge outside of Wenatchee to digital sometime in late June.

Found this on Gord Lansdell's site:

05/16/10 - K24IC-D Bellingham launched yesterday, rebroadcasting the HD 1080i PBS programming of KBTC-TV Tacoma to over the air viewers in the NW corner of WA and SW corner of BC. It is licensed to Venture Technologies Group and is authorized to operate on channel 24 (displays as 28.1) with an ERP of 15 kW at 760 meters HAAT at 48-40-46 122-50-31 (Mt. Constitution, Orcas Island). In addition to bringing OTA PBS to the area, it provides the programming of MHz World View in SD on channel 28.2.

http://www.nwbroadcasters.com/

Just visited a friend about 2 miles from my residence...Comcast QAM 5.1 and 5.2 is still KING/UNI SPORTS and 22.1 is MYQhd. Go figure. Evidently the new channel positions are not system wide.

Panned and scanned. I view the Seattle major stations via Express Vu satellite service in Canada. For quite some time now the SD version of the stations are panned and scanned versions of the HD feed. Credits and graphics are cut off on the sides. The worst seems to be KCTS. Any Seattle engineers out there that can complain to Express Vu?

Instead of Adding Digital Channels today I went thru the tedious task of doing Auto Program on both sets, which means you have to re-label most of the channels. Anyway, the result was that it put KING5 & UNISPORTS back at 5.1 & 5.2, and KMYQ22hd back to 22.1 where they belong. The 46" set had THISTV at 9.5...after the auto program it is now at 4.2. Those digital tuners are a fickle lot :)

Panned and scanned. I view the Seattle major stations via Express Vu satellite service in Canada. For quite some time now the SD version of the stations are panned and scanned versions of the HD feed. Credits and graphics are cut off on the sides. The worst seems to be KCTS. Any Seattle engineers out there that can complain to Express Vu?

This is a decision that Bell Express Vu has made. The stations have nothing to do with it. FWIW: KCTS will be working with Bell Express Vu in the next couple of weeks to get proper AFD working there. That way widescreen shows will show up letterboxed and fullscreen shows will show up, well, full screen. We supply it. Bell knows this. They have elected not to use it.

Is there a reason why the BBC World News on KCTS shows up windowboxed on a 16:9 display?

I was wondering if KUNS might start passing Univision's HD feed in time for the World Cup?

Is there a reason why the BBC World News on KCTS shows up windowboxed on a 16:9 display?

Hmmm..... If it's fed to us as a 4x3 letterboxed show and then upconverted there isn't really much we can do about it. I'll check into it. Does it do this all the time?

I think BBC World is actually filmed in 14:9 or something, and I suspect it's distributed in 4:3. My local PBS tried to zoom it to fill the screen and wound up chopping off some of the picture (text included) at the top and bottom.

- Trip

Don't know if this is the right
place to post but does anyone
know what's available on qam
in Ocean Shores on Coast
Communications silicondust didn't
have the lineup

Hmmm..... If it's fed to us as a 4x3 letterboxed show and then upconverted there isn't really much we can do about it. I'll check into it. Does it do this all the time?

It's different on the 5:30 pm broadcast today. There is still a border on the top, but it is stretched horizontally to fill the width of the screen (distorted).

I was wondering if KUNS might start passing Univision's HD feed in time for the World Cup?

does anyone know KUNS univision will go HD before the world cup or right on the world cup...

i really hope they change soon

does anyone know KUNS univision will go HD before the world cup or right on the world cup...

i really hope they change soon

Not only do I want to see Univision HD, but I want to see TeleFutura on a subchannel, like in most markets!

The time-conflicted matches on June 22-25 are on TeleFutura. :(

http://u.univision.com/contentroot/uol/10portada/sp/pdf/NOMETA_WC_BroadcastSchedPDF.pdf

I poked around, and it seems that of the top 13 markets, we're one of only two without Univision in HD and without TeleFutura. (The other, Detroit, hasn't got Univision or TeleFutura at all. Washington, DC has TeleFutura only on an analog LPTV, but in the other top markets, it's either a 480i subchannel or 1080i primary!)

Um ... my Sony is also stuck with those two phantom channels. I'd like to make them disappear. Advise would be appreciated.

Side note: I am reading Forum updates here for the first time in 6 weeks+ ... I had two important funerals to attend and mutual family stuff, so if this has already been addressed and resolved, I hope a mod deletes this writing.

Jim

does anyone know KUNS univision will go HD before the world cup or right on the world cup...

i really hope they change soon

Yes PLEEEEEASE! I can't stand American soccer announcers. Spanish please!!

does anyone know KUNS univision will go HD before the world cup or right on the world cup...

i really hope they change soon
There are no plans for KUNS to move to HD at this time.

In an effort to enhance Myron's reply; indeed KUNS wouldn't be in a position to transmit HD in time for the World Cup for several reasons:

1. The microwave between the studios in Downtown Seattle and transmitter site on West Tiger Mt. is not capable of HD. Purchasing and re-licensing the link would take quite a bit of time and quite a bit of expense for just one series of games.

2. I believe World Cup HD broadcast programming is carried on another satellite than currently used by Univision. That would require additional satellite equipment and receivers.

3. All of the daily Univision (Televisa) programming is 4:3 SD. Again, it wouldn't make fiscal sense to replace and add all the new equipment to broadcast HD for a few hours of programming a year. At least when I was there, Univision was clear that they had no immediate plans to provide full time HD content.

Again I'm not speaking on behalf of KUNS/KOMO or the parent company. I am just familiar with the KUNS set-up since I was involved when KUNS was put on the air.

It appears Comcast has added it at 74.3 ... just noticed it.

It also appears that we've lost 90.11 WeatherScan. Not sure if it was intentional or just the result of the Comcast "engineer's"!

I sent an email to The Weather Channel around 1pm...WeatherScan is back (330pm)!

Criminal Minds in HD last night. Too bad ION only programs 3 hours a day...what a network!

Again I'm not speaking on behalf of KUNS/KOMO or the parent company. I am just familiar with the KUNS set-up since I was involved when KUNS was put on the air.

Kelly, Myron -

Thanks for the info. Maybe in another four years. :-D

After resetting my video recorder, the TVGOS service doesn't seem to work. Has any one else had recent (last week or so) success or failure with the TVGOS service using just an antenna in the Seattle area?

After resetting my video recorder, the TVGOS service doesn't seem to work. Has any one else had recent (last week or so) success or failure with the TVGOS service using just an antenna in the Seattle area?

I still have TVGOS and the data goes out seven days, so it seems to be working for me.

Yes PLEEEEEASE! I can't stand American soccer announcers. Spanish please!!

The ESPN announcers sound like Brits (on English, one Scot). In any case I have to turn down the volume or the non-stop sound of the vuvuzelas will drive me crazy.

In an effort to enhance Myron's reply; indeed KUNS wouldn't be in a position to transmit HD in time for the World Cup for several reasons:

1. The microwave between the studios in Downtown Seattle and transmitter site on West Tiger Mt. is not capable of HD. Purchasing and re-licensing the link would take quite a bit of time and quite a bit of expense for just one series of games.

2. I believe World Cup HD broadcast programming is carried on another satellite than currently used by Univision. That would require additional satellite equipment and receivers.

3. All of the daily Univision (Televisa) programming is 4:3 SD. Again, it wouldn't make fiscal sense to replace and add all the new equipment to broadcast HD for a few hours of programming a year. At least when I was there, Univision was clear that they had no immediate plans to provide full time HD content.

Again I'm not speaking on behalf of KUNS/KOMO or the parent company. I am just familiar with the KUNS set-up since I was involved when KUNS was put on the air.

It's the WORLD CUP!!!!! What the heck else would be more important than that? If they don't upgrade to HD for this, then what motivation would they EVER have to do it!? Futbol is the entire PURPOSE of Univision!

I don't want to have to suffer through the horrors of watching this on ESPN. I had to suffer through watching much of the Stanley Cup on NBC, and it was horrid in all respects compared to the CBC (including the video, ack!). World Cup on ESPN is practically like watching Golf on Valium. It's no wonder USAmericans don't like Soccer.

I've resorted to pulling in Univision for the audio, and streaming the ESPN feed off their website for video, it doesn't look too terrible for heavily filtered HD actually, and doesn't have too many hangs. But what a PITA that is!

The ESPN announcers sound like Brits (on English, one Scot). In any case I have to turn down the volume or the non-stop sound of the vuvuzelas will drive me crazy.

Yeah, they have at least tried to upgrade their announcers to people who assume the audience has a general concept of soccer rather than the repurposed moronic asshats from other sports in years past who knew NOTHING about the game and would continually spend time explaining that in soccer you can't use your hands and trying to explain it using American Footbal lingo. Egads that was terrible. But it still isn't nearly as good as Spanish-language announcers.

Every time ESPN goes to the clowns sitting at the desk who are totally unexcited I want to punch them in the face. I mean, ARE THEY NOT EVEN WATCHING THE GAME!? Do they get a constant morphine drip or something? YOU'RE NOT HERE TO ANNOUNCE THE GRASS GROWING ON THE SOCCER FIELDS!!! Snort some coke or something, do what you have to do, but GIVE ME A DAMN SOCCER GAME. Wtf. If I wanted to take a nap, I'd watch curling.

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

I didn't check it out today, but Directv has multiple languages available (Arabic, German, Japanese, Portuguese and Korean but not all of them for every match). They also have Univision in HD and are carrying several matches in 3D.

Every time ESPN goes to the clowns sitting at the desk who are totally unexcited I want to punch them in the face. I mean, ARE THEY NOT EVEN WATCHING THE GAME!? Do they get a constant morphine drip or something? YOU'RE NOT HERE TO ANNOUNCE THE GRASS GROWING ON THE SOCCER FIELDS!!! Snort some coke or something, do what you have to do, but GIVE ME A DAMN SOCCER GAME. Wtf. If I wanted to take a nap, I'd watch curling.

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Chris, you're too funny.

someone hasn't mentioned it b4...CBUTHD (CBC; 60.2) is carrying the soccer live.

Yeah, they have at least tried to upgrade their announcers to people who assume the audience has a general concept of soccer rather than the repurposed moronic asshats from other sports in years past who knew NOTHING about the game and would continually spend time explaining that in soccer you can't use your hands and trying to explain it using American Footbal lingo. Egads that was terrible. But it still isn't nearly as good as Spanish-language announcers.

Every time ESPN goes to the clowns sitting at the desk who are totally unexcited I want to punch them in the face. I mean, ARE THEY NOT EVEN WATCHING THE GAME!? Do they get a constant morphine drip or something? YOU'RE NOT HERE TO ANNOUNCE THE GRASS GROWING ON THE SOCCER FIELDS!!! Snort some coke or something, do what you have to do, but GIVE ME A DAMN SOCCER GAME. Wtf. If I wanted to take a nap, I'd watch curling.

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Dude, two words...Anger-Management

It's just a game being shown on TV.

It's just a game being shown on TV.

The World Cup is just a game? I think the bubble that is my world just burst... :)

Dude, two words...Anger-Management

It's just a game being shown on TV.

Lol, it's far and away the most-viewed programming on television!!!

Nothing even comes remotely close.

I can't think of anything other than military attacks that stop entire countries in their tracks in suspense during world cup games. Unless you've been somewhere other than the US during a late-cup game, you have no idea.

I'm just about ready to pull the plug on Comcast. The one thing holding me back is reception of KBTC Tacoma PBS.

Anyone in the Everett to Snohomish areas able to recieve their OTA-HD Tacoma or Bellingham signals?

Your help is much appreciated :)

I get KBTC if it isn't raining too hard <G>

I'm just about ready to pull the plug on Comcast. The one thing holding me back is reception of KBTC Tacoma PBS.

Anyone in the Everett to Snohomish areas able to recieve their OTA-HD Tacoma or Bellingham signals?

Your help is much appreciated :)

weebling1
Send your nearest cross streets location and I'll check it out.
Dan

Hi,

I'm planning to pull the plug on my Verizon FIOS-TV in the next few days, and I was hoping to go with a "simple" OTA HDTV replacement. A bit of quick Googling, and it looks like perhaps it isn't quite as simple as I was expecting. I'm now guessing it will take a lot more than just plugging in a simple indoor antenna from the local Radio Shack.

I can't get away with mounting a big antenna on a pole outside, and I expect that's pretty common as prevalent as rabid HOA's are today. So what's your average suburbanite to do, especially in heavily treed western WA?

Any recommendations from others in this area? If it helps, I live in the Mukilteo area, near Picnic Point Elementary.

Thanks!

Hi,

I'm planning to pull the plug on my Verizon FIOS-TV in the next few days, and I was hoping to go with a "simple" OTA HDTV replacement. A bit of quick Googling, and it looks like perhaps it isn't quite as simple as I was expecting. I'm now guessing it will take a lot more than just plugging in a simple indoor antenna from the local Radio Shack.

I can't get away with mounting a big antenna on a pole outside, and I expect that's pretty common as prevalent as rabid HOA's are today. So what's your average suburbanite to do, especially in heavily treed western WA?

Any recommendations from others in this area? If it helps, I live in the Mukilteo area, near Picnic Point Elementary.

Thanks!

veggieguy
It's not an easy area. Send your nearest cross street location and I'll check it out.
Dan

A "rabid HOA" in the US needs to be shown the FCC's rules at http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html then told to go pound sand. Federal law in 1996 took away any basis for the HOA to regulate in any way the installation of a TV antenna on a private homeowner's structure except in very limited circumstances.

I can't get away with mounting a big antenna on a pole outside, and I expect that's pretty common as prevalent as rabid HOA's are today. So what's your average suburbanite to do, especially in heavily treed western WA?

As mentioned you are protected by law to install antennas and dishes in most cases.

This being said, there are some areas up in edmonds/mukilteo tucked in behind big hills that are absolutely horrible for any kind of TV or radio reception, so a large mast and large antennas may still be a difficult proposition. You should run some searches at your address to see what kind of antennas might be required, depending on where you are you might be fine with a reasonable outdoor antenna, or it might be a losing proposition.

Thanks for the FCC reference. That may come in handy. Still, I would like to go with the simplest solution that will work, and there's really no hope of getting above the tree line in my neighborhood. DanKurts was kind enough to look up my location, and he said I'm at the top of one of those problem hills, so maybe it's not as bad as it might be.

I looked up my address at antennaweb.org, and for most network stations, it says I need a "Medium Directional Antenna with pre-amp." Are there better lookup tools I should try?

Thanks for the FCC reference. That may come in handy. Still, I would like to go with the simplest solution that will work, and there's really no hope of getting above the tree line in my neighborhood. DanKurts was kind enough to look up my location, and he said I'm at the top of one of those problem hills, so maybe it's not as bad as it might be.

I looked up my address at antennaweb.org, and for most network stations, it says I need a "Medium Directional Antenna with pre-amp." Are there better lookup tools I should try?

Give http://tvfool.com/ a try.

I'm just about ready to pull the plug on Comcast. The one thing holding me back is reception of KBTC Tacoma PBS.

Anyone in the Everett to Snohomish areas able to recieve their OTA-HD Tacoma or Bellingham signals?

Your help is much appreciated :)

I have the exact same problem you do. I live in Everett, right off of 75th and Evergreen, and since the DTV transition, PBS has all but disappeared. Before the transition, it was the strongest signal I got.

I have the exact same problem you do. I live in Everett, right off of 75th and Evergreen, and since the DTV transition, PBS has all but disappeared. Before the transition, it was the strongest signal I got.

es214484
Sounds like your antenna is a UHF only style, or hasn't much in the way of VHF capability. You may only need to swap it out for something more like the HBU33 from Rat Shack or the Channel Master CM2020.
Your location is okay. Lots of trees, but should work with the right style of antenna.
Dan

I have the exact same problem you do. I live in Everett, right off of 75th and Evergreen, and since the DTV transition, PBS has all but disappeared. Before the transition, it was the strongest signal I got.

KBTC is mostly improbable to receive in the Everett-Snohomish valley due to the combination of distance (50 miles), low power (100 kW), and your low-lying terrain relative to the terrain to your south. You are in a big shadow. With a deep fringe UHF antenna, you might get their channel 24 translator out of Bellingham.

KCTS from Seattle should be receivable in your area with a proper high-VHF antenna mounted in an attic (maybe) or outdoors (probably). An indoor antenna would be disappointing.

I have the exact same problem you do. I live in Everett, right off of 75th and Evergreen, and since the DTV transition, PBS has all but disappeared. Before the transition, it was the strongest signal I got.

I'm in Marysville and I get Seattle PBS no problem. It should not be an issue for anyone south of me unless their is a major obstruction. As others have said, you need a VHF antenna, as since the transition they have been broadcasting on physical channel 9, whereas before they were UHF, channel 41 (I think).

I'm in Marysville and I get Seattle PBS no problem. It should not be an issue for anyone south of me unless their is a major obstruction. As others have said, you need a VHF antenna, as since the transition they have been broadcasting on physical channel 9, whereas before they were UHF, channel 41 (I think).

Yup. 41 it was. Got over 10 years out of that transmitter. Learned lots from it. But a good chunk of me is glad its no longer in service.

Highway 9 and 4th Street, Dan but.... BUAHAHA!

Turns out I just needed the proper angle, don't have more than 2 deg play on the Tacoma signal and although my box had pinned it for use it wasn't showing an RF via antennaweb for my location. (RF chan 27 btw) Unable to pull it out of Bellingham on frequency 24, K24IC-D

Woot! Dr. Who reruns forever! Channel Master 4228, Yagi, and amp FTW!

Highway 9 and 4th Street, Dan but.... BUAHAHA!

Turns out I just needed the proper angle, don't have more than 2 deg play on the Tacoma signal and although my box had pinned it for use it wasn't showing an RF via antennaweb for my location. (RF chan 27 btw) Unable to pull it out of Bellingham on frequency 24, K24IC-D

Woot! Dr. Who reruns forever! Channel Master 4228, Yagi, and amp FTW!

weebling1
Great!
Don't be surprised if it needs additional tweaks. KBTC is a long haul without much power to get there.
Dan

DVD OTA recordings

If anyone is recording to DVD their OTA channels, please private message me.

Yup. 41 it was. Got over 10 years out of that transmitter. Learned lots from it. But a good chunk of me is glad its no longer in service.

I can't recall, was that an NEC? Love the manuals for those boxes written in 'engrish'.

I can't recall, was that an NEC? Love the manuals for those boxes written in 'engrish'.

Channel 41 was a Harris Sigma CD100P1. It was installed in 1999.

The analog rig on channel 9 was a pair of NEC PCN1435A1's operating in parallel. They were installed in the mid 80's.

You are correct the manuals can be occasionally amusing. I actually have three versions that I kept just for laughs. The very first version that came with the transmitter was in Japanese. The second version, labeled 'preliminary,' was in English but clearly translated by someone that learned their English from the British. The manuals I used as my working copies were labeled 'U.S. English' and were actually very thorough and helpful.

Feasibility of rebroadcast transmitter for CBUT in Seattle area?

I know nothing of what it takes to create a "transmitter station" (if that is the right term) but was wondering if it might be possible/feasible to set one up for CBUT in the Seattle area.

Given my limited knowledge, a short answer would probably suffice. But, if you have all the details, I'd be glad to read...

Thanks,
Dale

Feasibility of rebroadcast transmitter for CBUT in Seattle area?

I know nothing of what it takes to create a "transmitter station" (if that is the right term) but was wondering if it might be possible/feasible to set one up for CBUT in the Seattle area.

Given my limited knowledge, a short answer would probably suffice. But, if you have all the details, I'd be glad to read...

Thanks,
Dale

Technially, yes. It's very possible. Find a place to put it. Get a signal to it. Turn it on. Done.

Unfortunantly, and here is where the answer gets a little longer, as with all things technical the answer isn't really that simple. The biggest issue is that CBUT is a Canadian TV station and unless an area has no first service TV (All of Western Washington does) remote transmitter facilities of any sort can not be used to import an 'out of market' or 'foreign' station. You'd have to find a channel to put it on and to the best of my knowledge the table of allotments for Seattle is full right now.

Then you get into the whole 'foreign entity' issue owning a US transmitter and all sorts of other sticky things that would make it very difficult for anyone to import any of the Vancouver stations into Seattle.

Technially, yes. It's very possible. Find a place to put it. Get a signal to it. Turn it on. Done.

Unfortunantly, and here is where the answer gets a little longer, as with all things technical the answer isn't really that simple. The biggest issue is that CBUT is a Canadian TV station and unless an area has no first service TV (All of Western Washington does) remote transmitter facilities of any sort can not be used to import an 'out of market' or 'foreign' station. You'd have to find a channel to put it on and to the best of my knowledge the table of allotments for Seattle is full right now.

Then you get into the whole 'foreign entity' issue owning a US transmitter and all sorts of other sticky things that would make it very difficult for anyone to import any of the Vancouver stations into Seattle.

Thanks tschall,

I figured it was probably legal/regulatory issues that would prevent this, but thanks for the details.

Technially, yes. It's very possible. Find a place to put it. Get a signal to it. Turn it on. Done.

Unfortunantly, and here is where the answer gets a little longer, as with all things technical the answer isn't really that simple. The biggest issue is that CBUT is a Canadian TV station and unless an area has no first service TV (All of Western Washington does) remote transmitter facilities of any sort can not be used to import an 'out of market' or 'foreign' station. You'd have to find a channel to put it on and to the best of my knowledge the table of allotments for Seattle is full right now.

Then you get into the whole 'foreign entity' issue owning a US transmitter and all sorts of other sticky things that would make it very difficult for anyone to import any of the Vancouver stations into Seattle.

But.....what if.....the CBUT signal was placed on an existing station as a sub-channel. Then it's just the lesser problem of getting it past the FCC and CRTC since no new transmitter is required. Historically speaking, the area north of the Sno-King line is within CBUT territory. For years it was carried on cable stations, along with CHEK-6 and CHAN-8, until being bumped because of newer regulations.

We get Mexican and Asian language channels, why not Canadian language? <G>

We get Mexican and Asian language channels, why not Canadian language? <G>

Maybe in colour, eh?

Unfortunantly, and here is where the answer gets a little longer, as with all things technical the answer isn't really that simple. The biggest issue is that CBUT is a Canadian TV station and unless an area has no first service TV (All of Western Washington does) remote transmitter facilities of any sort can not be used to import an 'out of market' or 'foreign' station. You'd have to find a channel to put it on and to the best of my knowledge the table of allotments for Seattle is full right now.

I skimmed through the listings of translators in the states that border Canada. There are quite a few translators for CBC (CBRT), CTV (CKCK & CFRN), and and Global (CISA) in rural Montana, but not much elsewhere.

I also ran across this rather interesting anecdote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNYB It seems that a station in Buffalo made a rather unsuccessful, short-lived run as a satellite of CFTO in Toronto.

I can now receive PBS Tacoma via their new transmitter up north. I can get a very good signal if I point my antenna towards it, but unfortunately I cannot get a solid signal with my antenna pointed south, unlike KVOS.
Anyhow, now I can watch Red Green in 1080i!

Interior British Columbia has a few translators airing programming from East Coast US stations. Not to be outdone, a number of translators in the Western US, such as in Colorado, air programming from Canadian stations.

The trouble with a Seattle market station airing a sub-channel with programming from CBUT, or other Van/Vic stations, is the agreement with those originating stations. I don't see any such agreement being made.

With Canadian television nearing their digital conversion date of Aug 2011, several BC stations may provide a decent digital signal to parts of NW Washington. Whether those signals reach Seattle on a regular basis seems unlikely, however.

With Canadian television nearing their digital conversion date of Aug 2011, several BC stations may provide a decent digital signal to parts of NW Washington. Whether those signals reach Seattle on a regular basis seems unlikely, however.

I wouldn't expect them to reach MUCH further than they currently do.

CBUT's (CBC) post-transition application is for 120kW on Ch. 43

CIVT's (CTV) post-transition application is for 33kW on Ch. 32

CHAN's (Global) post-transition application is for 40kW on Ch. 22

KVOS doesn't cover Seattle terribly well, and it's ~50 miles closer with 580kW.

I haven't checked recently but KONG was carrying a lot of the low-budget Canadian-made TV movies, particularly on weekends. FWIW. there is a new website for British Empire (mainly Canada and Australia) torrents: http://theempire.bz/

Since we're talking about the Canadian networks right now, does anybody know how Comcast is picking up CBUT? Do they pick this up OTA, or do they get a dedicated feed?

I wouldn't expect them to reach MUCH further than they currently do.

CBUT's (CBC) post-transition application is for 120kW on Ch. 43

CIVT's (CTV) post-transition application is for 33kW on Ch. 32

CHAN's (Global) post-transition application is for 40kW on Ch. 22

KVOS doesn't cover Seattle terribly well, and it's ~50 miles closer with 580kW.

Do any of the above represent an increase in kW from what they are now? I'm on the very edge of getting CBUT digital as I get a whiff of it now and then. I do like to occasionally watch CBC analog as it's reasonably clear on my TV so I don't look forward to losing it come Canada's transition.

Since we're talking about the Canadian networks right now, does anybody know how Comcast is picking up CBUT? Do they pick this up OTA, or do they get a dedicated feed?

Don't quote me on it. It's been long time since I looked, but at one point, there was a fiber between Shaw Cable and Comcast. Seattle stations went one way. British Columbia stations went the other.

Do any of the above represent an increase in kW from what they are now? I'm on the very edge of getting CBUT digital as I get a whiff of it now and then. I do like to occasionally watch CBC analog as it's reasonably clear on my TV so I don't look forward to losing it come Canada's transition.

You might actually see some results, then! :)

CBUT's (CBC) post-transition application is for 120kW on Ch. 43 (up from 30.5kW on Ch. 58)

CIVT's (CTV) post-transition application is for 33kW on Ch. 32 (up from 12.6kW on Ch. 33)

CHAN's (Global) post-transition application is for 40kW on Ch. 22 (up from 8.3kW)

I know Citytv and OMNI have fired up their transitional digital transmitters as well, but I haven't checked out the details of their transitional or post-transitional filings.

But.....what if.....the CBUT signal was placed on an existing station as a sub-channel. Then it's just the lesser problem of getting it past the FCC and CRTC since no new transmitter is required. Historically speaking, the area north of the Sno-King line is within CBUT territory. For years it was carried on cable stations, along with CHEK-6 and CHAN-8, until being bumped because of newer regulations.

I don't see much of an upside for a local Seattle station to carry CBUT or any Canadian station on a "dot 1 or dot 2 channel. There is a significant cost to including another stream which, in your example, would not be any benefit to the Seattle station, since they wouldn't likely to be able to cover the Canadian ads with local ads. As you mentioned, the CRTC is funny when it comes to allowing US programming into Canada and vice versa. Again, what would the motivation be of a foreign station to jump through the hoops? To make matters even more complicated; the CRTC and the Canadian government has pretty much put the brakes on the ability to sell ads to BC business to be carried across the boarder. KVOS found that out a few years ago.

Hello - I am about 1 block from the lake washngton shoreline atthe bottom of a hill

I have canceled cable, went to netflix and hulu, etc and am wondering if I can get some good channels by using an antenna, or if I am too far down the hill

thanks for your help!

Would it be better to get a directv decoder for local channels even if i dont have directv?

I have Comcast's 250GB HD-DVR and can't find the paperwork that came with it. Can anyone with access to that help me out and post the instructions for programming the TV button, along with the LG TV codes? Thanks. :)

I have Comcast's 250GB HD-DVR and can't find the paperwork that came with it. Can anyone with access to that help me out and post the instructions for programming the TV button, along with the LG TV codes? Thanks. :)

This might help...
http://cjhengineering.com/hdtv/cablehdtv/dct6412remote
The is a PDF of the manual there also.

Hope this helps. :)

I tried that, no dice. I don't have the Motorola 6412, though, those are the old 120GB boxes. I have the new 250GB box with the new remote.

Would it be better to get a directv decoder for local channels even if i dont have directv?


sleazypete
Depends where you are. Send nearest cross streets.
Also, Direct TV over air tuner won't work with out satellite tuner, and service being started. Some older satellite tuners used to work, but they usually didn't have great sensitivity. If you're using a PC, there are some great tuner cards out there. Haven't looked in a while, but I'm sure some others on the forum would know what the better ones are. If you don't need hi-def, the Channel Master 7000 is awesome.
Dan

I tried that, no dice. I don't have the Motorola 6412, though, those are the old 120GB boxes. I have the new 250GB box with the new remote.


HTtom
Comcast is usually pretty good about over the phone remote programming help. They might even be able to send you the code sheet or e-mail it to you.
They e-mailed one to a customer of mine a year or so back.
Dan

I tried that, no dice. I don't have the Motorola 6412, though, those are the old 120GB boxes. I have the new 250GB box with the new remote.

The Comcast web site has codes for the newer remotes.

Hi,

I'm using a digital antenna (rabbit ears indoors) with Win7 media center. I am able to pick up most channels 4-22 just fine. But I get no signal at all from channel 33.1-33.4 KWXP even though I live in Bellevue. It is right here! I see that many Seattle folks pick it up fine. What is going on?

Did the channel change and Microsoft/Zap2it not update the info? One problem is that I'm not able to scan for misc channels for some reason. So Media Center will only try to pick up on channels that are already listed.

Does anyone have detailed info on what channel Kwpx ION is using and what frequency? I can try and add it manually.

Thanks a lot.

Hi,

I'm using a digital antenna (rabbit ears indoors) with Win7 media center. I am able to pick up most channels 4-22 just fine. But I get no signal at all from channel 33.1-33.4 KWXP even though I live in Bellevue. It is right here! I see that many Seattle folks pick it up fine. What is going on?

Did the channel change and Microsoft/Zap2it not update the info? One problem is that I'm not able to scan for misc channels for some reason. So Media Center will only try to pick up on channels that are already listed.

Does anyone have detailed info on what channel Kwpx ION is using and what frequency? I can try and add it manually.

Thanks a lot.

Give Silicon Dust a try (select your zipcode, then antenna)
http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/

Hi,

I'm using a digital antenna (rabbit ears indoors) with Win7 media center. I am able to pick up most channels 4-22 just fine. But I get no signal at all from channel 33.1-33.4 KWXP even though I live in Bellevue. It is right here! I see that many Seattle folks pick it up fine. What is going on?

Did the channel change and Microsoft/Zap2it not update the info? One problem is that I'm not able to scan for misc channels for some reason. So Media Center will only try to pick up on channels that are already listed.

Does anyone have detailed info on what channel Kwpx ION is using and what frequency? I can try and add it manually.

Thanks a lot.

Probably because KWXP's transmitter is on Tiger Mountain, the opposite direction of the towers you're hitting in Queen Anne, etc. for the others.

KWXP broadcasts on Digital 33 UHF @ 400kW.

Cheers,
Kermee

Hi,

I'm using a digital antenna (rabbit ears indoors) with Win7 media center. I am able to pick up most channels 4-22 just fine. But I get no signal at all from channel 33.1-33.4 KWXP even though I live in Bellevue. It is right here! I see that many Seattle folks pick it up fine. What is going on?

Did the channel change and Microsoft/Zap2it not update the info? One problem is that I'm not able to scan for misc channels for some reason. So Media Center will only try to pick up on channels that are already listed.

Does anyone have detailed info on what channel Kwpx ION is using and what frequency? I can try and add it manually.

Thanks a lot.

mmmelaney
KWXP is on ch33, digital, actual frequency of 584-590mhz. Your problem is you are probably in a location that is only looking west. If you have the majority of your building east and/or south, it may be blocking the signal from the SE towards Tiger Mt. Try relocating the antenna to a window looking in that direction.
Let us know what gives.
Dan

Does anybody have any information about this "JoeTV" that Q13 keeps running ads about. Is it going to be a new subchannel, or what?

http://joeswall.com/

Does anybody have any information about this "JoeTV" that Q13 keeps running ads about. Is it going to be a new subchannel, or what?

http://joeswall.com/

Looks like it will be only on cable, at least that's my guess.

Does anybody have any information about this "JoeTV" that Q13 keeps running ads about. Is it going to be a new subchannel, or what?

http://joeswall.com/

Google turned up one of the commercials, along with the description "KCPQ Ch. 13 promo video rebranding MyQ2 to Joe TV in Seattle, WA."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voSthpu0iRU

Looks like TV à la Jack FM. Interesting.

Google turned up one of the commercials, along with the description "KCPQ Ch. 13 promo video rebranding MyQ2 to Joe TV in Seattle, WA."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voSthpu0iRU

Looks like TV à la Jack FM. Interesting.

I guess that would mean they'll be dropping the MyNetworkTV syndication package.

Is this for 22.2? That's the only way I can get KCPQ 13 now.

MyNetworkTV is on 22.1, so the rebroadcast of KCPQ on 22.2 hopefully won't be affected.

Awesome, I just realized they are rebroadcasting KCPQ in the UHF frequencies at 22-2. I thought something was wrong w/ my antenna because it stopped getting 13-1 reliably and I thought I was just going to have to live without FOX, but now it's back at 22-2! Finally I am getting every channel at >85% signal w/ my $20 monoprice antenna!

Awesome, I just realized they are rebroadcasting KCPQ in the UHF frequencies at 22-2. I thought something was wrong w/ my antenna because it stopped getting 13-1 reliably and I thought I was just going to have to live without FOX, but now it's back at 22-2! Finally I am getting every channel at >85% signal w/ my $20 monoprice antenna!

I'm one of the lucky few. I get a better signal than that, except for the Tiger stations which I don't get at all even with an outdoor antenna, with a paper clip jammed in the back of the DTA boxes.

Hi, I have a question for the Seattle OTAers. I don't live near Seattle but I am trying to help my friend who last weekend moved into an apartment in Queen Anne. He has decided to go 100% OTA, and we've been trying to setup his antenna. He has been able to get FOX, PBS, ABC, and CW, but no matter what he can't get reception for CBS and NBC. The weird thing is that CBS and NBC are in the same direction as ABC and according to AntennaWeb only about a mile away from his apartment. We have tried reception with two different antennas, a Zenith Silver Sensor and a Antennas Direct Clearstream 2. Neither antenna can't get NBC or CBS. So I was wondering if any of the experienced Seattle OTAers know of any problems in this neighborhood. Hopefully its not something with building itself.

He lives at 500 Elliott Ave West, 98119.

Hi, I have a question for the Seattle OTAers. I don't live near Seattle but I am trying to help my friend who last weekend moved into an apartment in Queen Anne. He has decided to go 100% OTA, and we've been trying to setup his antenna. He has been able to get FOX, PBS, ABC, and CW, but no matter what he can't get reception for CBS and NBC. The weird thing is that CBS and NBC are in the same direction as ABC and according to AntennaWeb only about a mile away from his apartment. We have tried reception with two different antennas, a Zenith Silver Sensor and a Antennas Direct Clearstream 2. Neither antenna can't get NBC or CBS. So I was wondering if any of the experienced Seattle OTAers know of any problems in this neighborhood. Hopefully its not something with building itself.

He lives at 500 Elliott Ave West, 98119.

At that address the ABC (KOMO) tower will be close enough that you'll be looking up and actually able to "see" the antenna. The NBC (KING) and CBS (KIRO) antennas are going to have to much dirt in the way. The irony of the whole thing is that the dirt is the very hill upon which all three of those towers sit. If you can get an antenna outdoors you may have a chance but I'm not betting on it. Others may have additional input.

At that address the ABC (KOMO) tower will be close enough that you'll be looking up and actually able to "see" the antenna. The NBC (KING) and CBS (KIRO) antennas are going to have to much dirt in the way. The irony of the whole thing is that the dirt is the very hill upon which all three of those towers sit. If you can get an antenna outdoors you may have a chance but I'm not betting on it. Others may have additional input.

Hi tschall-

I'm the guy that Sudhakar2k was talking about. I've been doing some reading from the beginning of the thread and it looks like people in this area were having success previous with antenna attenuators. Do you think that would help me at all?

My TV shows almost no signal for ABC (wavers between 2 and 3 bars out of 10 when the antenna is pointed South East) and decent strength for FOX and refuses to register CBS or NBC at all.. I'm really open to any suggestions as I'm trying to get rid of cable/satellite but not getting the locals is going to force me to deviate from that path.

Thanks

I live a block East of Volunteer Park (16th Ave E and Highland) and am interested in dropping Comcast after they jacked our bill 40% when a promotion ended. We are CLOSE to the top of the hill.

I have two questions:
1) Will the crest of the hill and potentially the Asian Art Museum itself preclude decent reception? We will not have line of site with the hill.
2) It looks like we would be looking at the KOMO antennas for CBS, NBC, ABC, etc at a heading of about 255 degrees and then Bremerton for FOX at 238 degrees. Are the antennas too directional to hit both? Bremerton is 24 miles away (I'm not sure if that helps in knowing how directional the antenna would need to be.)

I really only care about those four stations.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Hi tschall-

I'm the guy that Sudhakar2k was talking about. I've been doing some reading from the beginning of the thread and it looks like people in this area were having success previous with antenna attenuators. Do you think that would help me at all?

My TV shows almost no signal for ABC (wavers between 2 and 3 bars out of 10 when the antenna is pointed South East) and decent strength for FOX and refuses to register CBS or NBC at all.. I'm really open to any suggestions as I'm trying to get rid of cable/satellite but not getting the locals is going to force me to deviate from that path.

Thanks

It occurred to me last night that an attenuator might help. I'd still bet against it but it sure wouldn't hurt to try. I suggest starting with one at a value of about 6db and see if things get any better.

It occurred to me last night that an attenuator might help. I'd still bet against it but it sure wouldn't hurt to try. I suggest starting with one at a value of about 6db and see if things get any better.

I bought this thing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350235582082&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT last night and I also ordered an ATSC tuner for my HTPC. I'm hoping that will show me a little more detail when it comes to signal strength than what I'm seeing on my Samsung TV.

Also, does anyone know (or have one that I can borrow) if there's such thing as a signal strength tester for antennas? I'm just curious where the signal is coming from for each channel and what the strength of it is.

Thanks.

I bought this thing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350235582082&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT last night and I also ordered an ATSC tuner for my HTPC. I'm hoping that will show me a little more detail when it comes to signal strength than what I'm seeing on my Samsung TV.

Also, does anyone know (or have one that I can borrow) if there's such thing as a signal strength tester for antennas? I'm just curious where the signal is coming from for each channel and what the strength of it is.

Thanks.

One would need a commercial quality spectrum analyzer or field strength meter to determine actual field strength. Remember that the "signal strength" on most devices is actually signal quality, (EbNo bit errors, etc) not actually signal strength. One can have a really high field/signal strength, yet a poor signal quality due to multipath or overload of the receiver.

I bought this thing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350235582082&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT last night and I also ordered an ATSC tuner for my HTPC. I'm hoping that will show me a little more detail when it comes to signal strength than what I'm seeing on my Samsung TV.

Also, does anyone know (or have one that I can borrow) if there's such thing as a signal strength tester for antennas? I'm just curious where the signal is coming from for each channel and what the strength of it is.

Thanks.

If your OTA attempts are unsuccessful, you could drop down to Comcast Limited Basic service for around $16 per month. It gives you channels 1-30 or so, a few more, plus every local HD and SD digital channel that you could otherwise receive OTA. Not sure if the Limited Basic price is changing or not. It is slightly different in each jurisdiction (different cities, county, etc.).

You need a QAM-capable digital tuner to receive the digital channels from Comcast without a cable box.

I bought this thing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350235582082&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT last night and I also ordered an ATSC tuner for my HTPC. I'm hoping that will show me a little more detail when it comes to signal strength than what I'm seeing on my Samsung TV.

Also, does anyone know (or have one that I can borrow) if there's such thing as a signal strength tester for antennas? I'm just curious where the signal is coming from for each channel and what the strength of it is.

Thanks.

agasthya
The biggest problem you have is signals there from QA hill are very strong. In the analog days, you could simply touch the antenna terminals on the back of a TV and get a picture. Not perfect, but now snow, either, from a weak signal. It's bouncing all around inside your apartment. Makes it hard to find that one sweet spot where everything works. If any of your antennas have an amplifier, turn it off!
Second problem is signals at the bottom of the hill are spotty. The major part is going over your head. There's still plenty of weaker scattered signal, though, to get some directly. That tends to mix in with everything else bouncing around, and can cancel out the main path.
Bottom line, as Kelly mentioned, you need to get the antenna, even a small one, outside. Or, at least to a window that looks NE. Ch's 9-11-22 come from Capital Hill, to the east, and may require orienting the antenna when you tune those channels. FOX comes from the SW, with nothing in the way, so it probably works well when you reaim.
An attenuator may help, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. Start with it full on, then half way for second test. Only ch's 4-5-7-16 would possibly overload with a little Silver Sensor and no amplifier.
I have tried before to find the best reception spot inside of various condo's and apt's around the Hill with my meter. It's very frustrating when you can see what's really going on. It's not just strength or level. It's mostly about getting a clean waveshape. Sometimes just having people walk around in the room can wipe it out! Using the built in strength indicator will help, but you need to take a different approach.
First, for a variety of reasons, move s-l-o-w-l-y. 3 or 4 inches in ANY direction can make or break it. Wait 5 full seconds, move again. And if you can, get your body away from it when measuring.
Next, start with one channel only. Map out all the spots, write down the readings at each one. Soon you'll find where the dead spots are, and more importantly, where you get NO change in some signal amount, if it's weak.
Now, do this for each channel. Soon you'll see where the good spots are, and where channels overlap. You may find some channels are not difficult, others ultra fussy. This will help you narrow down the process so you can concentrate on the tough ones. Patience will pay more than anything else.

Tip: if you're running wireless networking, or 2.4ghz phones or other wireless toys, turn them off while testing.
Yeah, yeah, I know it should have nothing to do with it. If you have a noisy device, though, it might surprise you. I have run into it in hot TV signal areas where the walls are concrete or have a lot of steel to reflect various signals. (Ran into it with an old cheapo Panasonic surround system that used wireless for the rear channels. Would hang up a SONOS system controller and caused a weak ch 27 to freeze. Couldn't see it on ch 27 display on my meter, but some harmonic frequency obviously upset it.)
If you suddenly loose a channel after you turn a device back on...........

Let us know how you make out.
Dan

I live a block East of Volunteer Park (16th Ave E and Highland) and am interested in dropping Comcast after they jacked our bill 40% when a promotion ended. We are CLOSE to the top of the hill.

I have two questions:
1) Will the crest of the hill and potentially the Asian Art Museum itself preclude decent reception? We will not have line of site with the hill.
2) It looks like we would be looking at the KOMO antennas for CBS, NBC, ABC, etc at a heading of about 255 degrees and then Bremerton for FOX at 238 degrees. Are the antennas too directional to hit both? Bremerton is 24 miles away (I'm not sure if that helps in knowing how directional the antenna would need to be.)

I really only care about those four stations.

Thanks in advance for your help.

LeBison
That's a tough one to answer. The water tower can be a problem as well as the museum. And there are a few large trees there.
The two directions aren't that hard to resolve. Just depends on what's going to work. You also need to worry about channels 9-11-22. While you may not care about them, the signals are very strong. Depending on how good your tuner is, and it's internal gain control, they may drive the gain down making ch 13 seem a bit weak.
A yagi style will work better than a bow-tie style. Large size isn't needed, just enough to eliminate some of the reflection off the water tower. I would try a Chanel Master CM2018, and at least a 10db attenuator, or two. You can always take one out if ch13 doesn't come in steady.
Dan

Took the satellite TV truck out to Wenatchee yesterday to the Badger Mt. fire. While on top of Badger Mountain, I took the opportunity to watch some analog TV via the many translators. KCPQ, KCTS, KAYU, KREM and KHQ all have analog translators that I could pick up; KXLY has two that I could receive. The KHQ one is still on channel 65 (!) but has an application to move to 22 digital. There is also a local station that is on a network of low power analog stations; it showed up on 5 different channels. During the morning, it was showing a rotating loop of short local commercials. Here's their home page http://www.kwcctv.com/ where you can look at an almost unreadable press release about the new KSPS translator. After reading that, it's amazing that they can keep a station on the air.

The one digital signal I received was the new KSPS translator. It PSIP'd as 7-1; 7-2 and 7-3. At that time I also got channel 49-9 and 49-10 with no video so they appear to be broadcasting the same type of extra signal that KCTS is carrying. I did not try to delete 49-9 and 49-10. Some TV's allow the deletion of sub channels and some do not. Having these no video sub channels show up on a completely different channel (the translator is physically on 49) would make them easier to delete and less annoying, something that can't be done with KCTS locally. I have a 13" tube SDTV that thankfully doesn't get the phantom -9 and -10 signals on KCTS. If it did, I could not delete them; the set design is such that the only thing you can delete is an entire channel, not individual sub channels. Anybody else have a set like this?

Val

Took the satellite TV truck out to Wenatchee yesterday to the Badger Mt. fire. While on top of Badger Mountain, I took the opportunity to watch some analog TV via the many translators. KCPQ, KCTS, KAYU, KREM and KHQ all have analog translators that I could pick up; KXLY has two that I could receive. The KHQ one is still on channel 65 (!) but has an application to move to 22 digital. There is also a local station that is on a network of low power analog stations; it showed up on 5 different channels. During the morning, it was showing a rotating loop of short local commercials. Here's their home page http://www.kwcctv.com/ where you can look at an almost unreadable press release about the new KSPS translator. After reading that, it's amazing that they can keep a station on the air.

The one digital signal I received was the new KSPS translator. It PSIP'd as 7-1; 7-2 and 7-3. At that time I also got channel 49-9 and 49-10 with no video so they appear to be broadcasting the same type of extra signal that KCTS is carrying. I did not try to delete 49-9 and 49-10. Some TV's allow the deletion of sub channels and some do not. Having these no video sub channels show up on a completely different channel (the translator is physically on 49) would make them easier to delete and less annoying, something that can't be done with KCTS locally. I have a 13" tube SDTV that thankfully doesn't get the phantom -9 and -10 signals on KCTS. If it did, I could not delete them; the set design is such that the only thing you can delete is an entire channels, not individual sub channels. Anybody else have a set like this?

Val

Yup. Got two of them sitting right here on my desk. It's strange though. I have those two channels marked as 'hidden' in PSIP and nothing we have here picks them up. I know you told me at one point but I don't remember what kind of set that is that you have in the truck.

At any rate, the analog KCTS translator operating on physical channel 18 will be going away mid August. It'll be flash cut to digital at that time and 9.1, 9.2 & 9.3 will be on in the Wenatchee Valley area.

The set that picks up the "hidden" channels is a Vizio VA19LHDTV 10T. It picks up the hidden channels on both KCTS-9 and the KSPS translator on channel 49 in Wenatchee. The Vizio does allow for these hidden sub-channels to be deleted, so the irritation factor is very mild.

Val

Yup. Got two of them sitting right here on my desk. It's strange though. I have those two channels marked as 'hidden' in PSIP and nothing we have here picks them up. I know you told me at one point but I don't remember what kind of set that is that you have in the truck.

I've heard of several receivers that pick up Update TV subchannels as blank. My guess is that these receivers simply look for anything with a Program Number in the normal range and try to display it.

Now I've heard no similar complaints from stations that put the UpdateTV stuff at Program Numbers greater than 100 (in the datacast range). WNET, WTVS, KNMD, and KUEN are examples of this.

- Trip

KOMO 4.2

Here's a news clip:

SEATTLE, WA, Aug 11, 2010 (MARKETWIRE via COMTEX) -- Fisher Communications,
Inc. (NASDAQ: FSCI), a leader in local media innovation, today announced that it
will begin airing The Daily Buzz, a syndicated morning news and lifestyle
program, in the Seattle and Portland television markets beginning in Fall 2010.

Taking advantage of the digital transition, Fisher has launched multicast
stations in most of its markets, including KOMO.2 in Seattle and KATU.2 in
Portland, where The Daily Buzz will air weekdays from 7-9 AM, accompanying
programs such as Dr. Oz, KOMO 4 News at 11AM and AM Northwest, which are already
airing on those channels.

I picked up a Channel Master 4220M UHF antenna a couple of years back.

Everything was great until the transition. Now that 9, 11, and 13 are VHF, I no longer receive them good enough to record. 9 and 11 have drop-outs, 13 is too far away.
I live at 145th NE and Lake City Way (98125). Would I be better off trying an indoor VHF/UHF antenna, or adding a VHF element/yagi to my existing Channel Master 4220M?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Looking South and West where the stations are, you have Roosevelt Hill and Northgate right in the way. I'm surprised you got anything even when they were using UHF, probably some bounce.

The trick will be to get a higher gain VHF or higher gain dual mode antenna as high in the air as possible. Mounting the antenna in the attic won't cut it.

Good luck!

I left out the fact that I am on the top floor of a 4 story building! I actually get ch 11 fairly well with the CM antenna... occasional drop-outs...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25046782@N07/4894010096/

I was thinking about trying an old set of rabbit-ears (with the UHF loop), but everyone I know threw theirs out in the 60's! LOL

I'm in Shoreline at NE 170th & 22nd NE. I mounted a CM4220 in the attic a couple years ago, and it worked well until the move to VHF. Recently I've added a simple folded dipole for VHF (I took an FM radio ribbon cable antenna and shortened it). I'm combining the outputs of the two antennas with a VHF/UHF combiner (Pico Macom UVSJ). (Ribbon cable => balun => combiner on the VHF side.) I couldn't be happier.

Anyhow, you might try a folded dipole (or rabbit ears, if you can find a set) to see how it works.

Thanks for the combiner info. Too hot to try anything right now. I am trying to scrounge an old pair of "rabbit ears".
Anyone know the length of the element(s) needed for VHF 11?

Thanks all...

A twin-lead folded dipole for channel 11 should be 70.8 cm long (27-7/8 in). (This is according to a web page by Rick Matthews who's URL this forum won't let newbie me post --- google for "a simple efficient tv antenna" to find it.)

I don't think the length is highly critical, and my suspicion is that, in general, too long is better than too short, so consider sizing it for the lowest frequency you're interested in. Before I shortened my dipole to the computed resonant length for channel 9 (75.4 cm), I tried it in it's full (FM broadcast) length, and that seemed to work fine, too. I can't say for sure that the shortening improved it's performance at all.

I picked up a Channel Master 4220M UHF antenna a couple of years back.

Everything was great until the transition. Now that 9, 11, and 13 are VHF, I no longer receive them good enough to record. 9 and 11 have drop-outs, 13 is too far away.
I live at 145th NE and Lake City Way (98125). Would I be better off trying an indoor VHF/UHF antenna, or adding a VHF element/yagi to my existing Channel Master 4220M?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Hmmm, my parents are just a bit away from there. Maybe 3/4 of a mile south and east. As Kelly has accurately observed, both north gate and roosevelt would be in the way. However, I replaced my parents vintage VHF only antenna with a V/U 'something cheap' I got at Home Depot and it works great for everything but channel 44 on Tiger and they don't care about that anyways. However, it's an ideal installation. Outdoors. Resonable quality stuff. 30+ feet clear in every direction.

Thanks for the combiner info. Too hot to try anything right now. I am trying to scrounge an old pair of "rabbit ears".
Anyone know the length of the element(s) needed for VHF 11?

Thanks all...

thewarm
If you still have problems with 13 after the VHF add-on, you should be able to get it on 22-2. I was surprised to see they were broadcasting 13 in HD on 22-2. Haven't been on that sub channel in a while and it now shows HD 720 as well as KMYQ in HD 720, too. Thought that wasn't possible. No matter, glad there's another option for 13 now.
Dan

thewarm
If you still have problems with 13 after the VHF add-on, you should be able to get it on 22-2. I was surprised to see they were broadcasting 13 in HD on 22-2. Haven't been on that sub channel in a while and it now shows HD 720 as well as KMYQ in HD 720, too. Thought that wasn't possible. No matter, glad there's another option for 13 now.
Dan

Dan:

Sure it's possible. You could put half a dozen in there if you wanted. As always though, there's a trade off in quality. If I'm using bits for a dot two then they aren't available for a dot one. Sometimes it's a problem. Sometimes it's not.

I currently do use 22.2 for FOX. I almost get 11.1 good enough with my CM...just an occassional drop-out.

I was wondering if I could "add" a dipole to my CM UHF antenna? Maybe mount it (on stand-offs) in between the 2 UHF "bow-ties"... any thoughts on that idea please?

Thanks all

I was wondering if I could "add" a dipole to my CM UHF antenna? Maybe mount it (on stand-offs) in between the 2 UHF "bow-ties"...

I think that would probably work well. In my setup the folded dipole is mounted to roof rafters roughly 2 feet directly in front of the CM4220. It was a convenient place to mount it, but also, I thought that maybe the dipole would gain a bit of directionality having the CM behind it as a reflector. (I don't think there's anything magic about the 2 foot spacing.)

I guess the dipole might screw up the response pattern of the CM a bit, but I've noticed no sign of that.

Works for me, in any case. Try it!

I just moved to Redmond from Weston, FL where I had a ChannelMaster (don't remember the model but it had both VHF & UHF and was 66" long fully stretched) in my attic. I had it pointed in between the Miami/Fort Lauderdale antenna farm and the West Palm Beach one, allowing me to pick up loads of local stations. Very handy during storm outages, which is why it was in my attic.

Thinking about the setup in the new house (once we buy it), I would love to be able to pick up CBUT OTA. I know that Comcast carries it but I still have a commitment to honour with E* and they don't carry CBUT.

I see some people a bit north of me can pick up CBUT in analogue but would be interested in people's thoughts on my chances in Redmond.

I say your chance for CBUT is about zero...

I would love to be able to pick up CBUT OTA.

I see some people a bit north of me can pick up CBUT in analogue but would be interested in people's thoughts on my chances in Redmond.

I can pick up CBUT analog very clearly, but I am quite far north of you and have a fairly clean line of sight. I don't think your chances in Redmond are worth the effort.

If you like CBC programming, try http://www.cbc.ca/video/ .

James

Tpalik: You could also subscribe to a grey market ExpressVu account and receive by satellite many Canadian, Boston, and Seattle stations for about $50 a month. You would need a third party to provide you with a Canadian address and maintain your automatic monthly payment service.

So, apparently, KMYQ is becoming KZJO for the new "Joe TV" rebranding. Interesting schedule, if I do say so myself:

http://joeswall.com/schedule.html

So, apparently, KMYQ is becoming KZJO for the new "Joe TV" rebranding. Interesting schedule, if I do say so myself:http://joeswall.com/schedule.html It must be extremely easy for a broadcaster to change one's call letters these days.

It must be extremely easy for a broadcaster to change one's call letters these days.

It's always been a fairly simple process. It's a single page or so on a web form anymore. You fill in the 20 questions and tell them either, I'd like these letters or pick something for me that isn't being used. Then you have, I believe, 30 days to start using it once it's been granted.

Ordered up one of these yesterday:

http://www.cobyusa.com/?p=prod&prod_num_id=478&pcat_id=1012

It'll be interesting to see how well mobile DTV works around here.

Ordered up one of these yesterday:

http://www.cobyusa.com/?p=prod&prod_num_id=478&pcat_id=1012

It'll be interesting to see how well mobile DTV works around here.

Who all is doing MDTV in Seattle? Is it still only KOMO? I'd love to throw one of those on my laptop and watch TV while I'm working. :) Let us know how it works!

Who all is doing MDTV in Seattle? Is it still only KOMO? I'd love to throw one of those on my laptop and watch TV while I'm working. :) Let us know how it works!
KOMO is still doing 3-streams -- their main programming, their dot-2 (THiS TV), and their Univision station (KUNS). KIRO has one stream going -- its main program. KOMO-DT has a 20% vertical component in its transmitting antenna to aid in M-DTV reception. I am not aware of any other TV broadcaster in Seattle with eliptical radiation.

Last I saw, KONG had MH going as well.

tschall, would you be willing to let me know what's airing in MH for certain, including how each subchannel IDs both numerically and for the channel name? I'd love to add the data to RabbitEars. :)

- Trip

Last I saw, KONG had MH going as well.

tschall, would you be willing to let me know what's airing in MH for certain, including how each subchannel IDs both numerically and for the channel name? I'd love to add the data to RabbitEars. :)

- Trip

Absolutly, I'd be happy to do that. FedEx claims the thing left Troutdale, OR this morning at 0034 so it's getting closer. If anyone would be interested, I'd be happy to grab a table or two at a restaraunt or bar in Seattle someplace to show the silly thing off once it gets here.

Absolutly, I'd be happy to do that. FedEx claims the thing left Troutdale, OR this morning at 0034 so it's getting closer. If anyone would be interested, I'd be happy to grab a table or two at a restaraunt or bar in Seattle someplace to show the silly thing off once it gets here.

OK, the silly thing is here. It installed flawlessly on a 5 year old Dell 4150 laptop. 2.0Ghz P4 with a 40 Gig drive and 1 Gig of memory running Windows XP with all current updates. Found 3 RF channels on it's first run sitting on my kitchen counter. KONG, KOMO and KIRO. I've tried three different positions in my kitchen and KING is nowhere to be found. I'll be running it in different scenarios over the next few days.

Here's the basic rundown:

[7-1] KIRO M-H
[16-1] KONG M-H
[38-1] KOMO-4
[38-2] THIS TV
[38-3] Univision

All make a passable picture on the computers flat screen LCD monitor.

I didn't think KING was carrying it, only KONG.

Any chance you can catch me a new TSReader export for KOMO? I'm wondering how much bandwidth they're putting toward the three MH streams.

- Trip

I just got the silly thing this afternoon. By 11PM I'd managed to destroy it. I dropped the lap top it was plugged into on the kitchen floor. It took the brunt of the force. Repairs will be attempted later. That's the bad news. The good news is that it sort of settled the battle I was having with myself about wether or not I should open it.

It's got two chips in it. One is an Atmel AT91SAM7S64 Microcontroller. The other is an LG2160a ATSC-M/H chip. It's in an enclosure about the size of a large USB jumpdrive. So now, at least we know what's in it.

I just got the silly thing this afternoon. By 11PM I'd managed to destroy it. I dropped the lap top it was plugged into on the kitchen floor. It took the brunt of the force. Repairs will be attempted later. That's the bad news.

:eek: That's not good. Hope the repairs are easy. Sounds like an interesting device.

:eek: That's not good. Hope the repairs are easy. Sounds like an interesting device.

A few dollops of solder on the thing to fasten the USB plug back onto the circuit board and we are, as they say, down the road.

Unscientific, anecdotal testing to resume this afternoon.

I didn't think KING was carrying it, only KONG.

Any chance you can catch me a new TSReader export for KOMO? I'm wondering how much bandwidth they're putting toward the three MH streams.

- Trip
KOMO has 5-Megabits allocated for M-DTV.

5.5 Mbps, I assume?

- Trip

5.5 Mbps, I assume?

- Trip
Okay, 5.502-Mbps. Let's be technical.

Ordered up one of these yesterday:

http://www.cobyusa.com/?p=prod&prod_num_id=478&pcat_id=1012

It'll be interesting to see how well mobile DTV works around here.

I just got the silly thing this afternoon. By 11PM I'd managed to destroy it. I dropped the lap top it was plugged into on the kitchen floor. It took the brunt of the force. Repairs will be attempted later. That's the bad news. The good news is that it sort of settled the battle I was having with myself about wether or not I should open it.

It's got two chips in it. One is an Atmel AT91SAM7S64 Microcontroller. The other is an LG2160a ATSC-M/H chip. It's in an enclosure about the size of a large USB jumpdrive. So now, at least we know what's in it.

Thanks for the info so far! Sucks about the dropping!

I might have to pick one up to play with also. I finally found pictures of the retail box...

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7372/cbydtv1111.jpg

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/9711/cbydtv1112.jpg

So with all the features they're touting with ATSC-M/H... I should be able to watch ATSC-M/H going 60 MPH down I-5 while I drive and talk on a cell phone, right? ;)

Cheers,
Kermee

Okay, 5.502-Mbps. Let's be technical.

I asked because MH is split into 0.917 Mbps segments, so I didn't know if you'd rounded 4.59 Mbps up to 5, or 5.5 Mbps down to 5. :)

- Trip

So with all the features they're touting with ATSC-M/H... I should be able to watch ATSC-M/H going 60 MPH down I-5 while I drive and talk on a cell phone, right? ;)

Why only 60MPH?

Why only 60MPH?

Actually, my quote of 60 MPH was a lie.

During the hours I drive (commute) on I-5, it's more like 5-10 MPH ;)

On a more serious note, I'll probably order one of the Coby DTV111's early next week. I'm very curious in testing it also! I have a AVerMedia AVerTV Hybrid Volar Max (ATSC) tuner, and another notebook I could try using them side-by-side to do a non-scientific test to see how much better ATSC-M/H does in a "less than forgiving" environment.

Cheers,
Kermee

Just went through the channels again (now I'm re-scanning) after re-orienting the Antennas Direct DB-9 (my wife calls it the "Salmon Griller"!) and discovered that KUSE 46.1 has something called "Tuff TV" and they have taken their infomercial loop off of 46.4.

We peaked for the best signal on KCTS 9 (even though it is a UHF only) and a check with the spectrum analyzer showed that KBCB and KVOS are possibilities. We'll see what happens after the re-scan- which is right now.

KBCB and KVOS scanned in- we'll see if that lasts when I put the splitter back in to feed the rest of the house.

I'm at approximately 35th SW and Trenton St SW here in West Seattle.

Val

I currently use Comcast and find their rates too high. I am considering going to OTA. I'm near the intersection of NE 154th St and 64th Ave NE. I have been to the sites which show the stations and their distances and directions. I think I'm in a relatively good location to get many stations.

My questions are:

1 Would a omnidirectional antenna work for me so that I cam maximize the number of channels?

2 I have two Tivos. Will these be a problem with an antenna?

3 I have a home network with 2 video feeds in each room. I use an Electroline EDA-FT08000 to distribute the Comcast signal. I currently only use 5 outlets (2 for the Tivos, and the other 3 for BR TVs). Will this complicate matters?

TIA

3 I have a home network with 2 video feeds in each room. I use an Electroline EDA-FT08000 to distribute the Comcast signal. I currently only use 5 outlets (2 for the Tivos, and the other 3 for BR TVs). Will this complicate matters?

I can only answer question #3 but I use the exact same model for OTA and it works great.

Cheers,
Kermee

Sitting in the lobby of the Coal Creek YMCA, buried back in the valley inside an enormous brick and steel building. Watching 'Curse of the Pink Panther' with my MDTV m/h receiver. Anecdotal, unscientific testing shows that mobile DTV works well although not as well as "they" would like you to believe. It also shows that KOMO has by far and away the signal receivable in the most locations.

Hi All,

Hope this is the right area to post this. I have been researching HD OTA and it looks like there are some channels I can recieve (I'm in Duvall) based on antennaweb.org, but perhaps not enough to spend the money to test it out myself. No NBC, CBS or ABC. I realize that I may still be able to get those even though antennaweb.org says no. Even if it does work out I think there may be more install issues if I want to watch in more than one room in my house. I think a Pro installer might be a good idea. Does anyone know a good one in the Seattle area?

Thanks,
jb

Hi All,

Hope this is the right area to post this. I have been researching HD OTA and it looks like there are some channels I can recieve (I'm in Duvall) based on antennaweb.org, but perhaps not enough to spend the money to test it out myself. No NBC, CBS or ABC. I realize that I may still be able to get those even though antennaweb.org says no. Even if it does work out I think there may be more install issues if I want to watch in more than one room in my house. I think a Pro installer might be a good idea. Does anyone know a good one in the Seattle area?

Thanks,
jb

JuniorBalloon
What's your nearest cross streets?
Dan

I currently use Comcast and find their rates too high. I am considering going to OTA. I'm near the intersection of NE 154th St and 64th Ave NE. I have been to the sites which show the stations and their distances and directions. I think I'm in a relatively good location to get many stations.

My questions are:

1 Would a omnidirectional antenna work for me so that I cam maximize the number of channels?

2 I have two Tivos. Will these be a problem with an antenna?

3 I have a home network with 2 video feeds in each room. I use an Electroline EDA-FT08000 to distribute the Comcast signal. I currently only use 5 outlets (2 for the Tivos, and the other 3 for BR TVs). Will this complicate matters?

TIA

bonnie_raitt
If you're north of St Edwards park, it's a good location. Lots of trees close to your house might cause some minor issues.
A non omni directional antenna will work better. The channels 4-5-7-9-11-13-16-22 should all work okay. They're all basically SW of you. A Channelmaster 4228 or 2020 would be good. The trees and mounting location on your house would dictate which would be best. Either should have enough power to work with your splitter and Tivos.
If you have questions, fell free to call.
Dan
206-794-3993

BTW, love your music....!

JuniorBalloon
What's your nearest cross streets?
Dan

I am near Kelly Rd and Big Rock Rd.

jb

I see that from the antennaweb.org site they advertise these antennas. Are they a good buy?

I'll post the url in my next message.

Thanks,
jb

You can see the antennas here - http://www.homeantenna.org/?gclid=CNyY1K_WqqQCFQmkiQodNXal3Q

Thanks,
jb

You can see the antennas here - http://www.homeantenna.org/?gclid=CNyY1K_WqqQCFQmkiQodNXal3Q

Thanks,
jb

Cheap junk from China...

Thanks. Any recommendatiuons?

jb

Looks like I will need an HD Tuner as well. I have done searches, but the results are fairly confusing. A recommendation for a Tuner in the $100 area would also be appreciated.

Thanks,
jb

bonnie_raitt
If you're north of St Edwards park, it's a good location. Lots of trees close to your house might cause some minor issues.
A non omni directional antenna will work better. The channels 4-5-7-9-11-13-16-22 should all work okay. They're all basically SW of you. A Channelmaster 4228 or 2020 would be good. The trees and mounting location on your house would dictate which would be best. Either should have enough power to work with your splitter and Tivos.
If you have questions, fell free to call.
Dan


I read that Channelmaster sold out to the Chinese and that the new antennas are not as good as previously. Any comment? Thanks

I read that Channelmaster sold out to the Chinese and that the new antennas are not as good as previously. Any comment? Thanks

http://www.antennahacks.com/Comparisons/CM4228New_vs_CM4228Old.htm

I am near Kelly Rd and Big Rock Rd.

jb

JuniorBalloon
You're in bad area. I've done a few surveys out there, and have longtime customer just a few blocks south of Lake Marcel. We tried everything. Trees are thick out there, and you're behind the hill across the valley, Union Hill, about 5 miles west of you. You might get some of the stations from Tiger Mt, but all the Seattle channels are going to be extremely weak. I never say never, but you might do better with a Lotto ticket!
Dan

I read that Channelmaster sold out to the Chinese and that the new antennas are not as good as previously. Any comment? Thanks

bonnie_raitt
I hadn't heard they sold out to the Chinese, just had them manufacturing the antennas to their specs.
I found the newer 4228 did have a slightly better signal on VHF high band, (channnels 7-13) than the old one. The UHF portion seemed to be the basically the same. These were never designed to receive VHF high, but they do work somewhat. It's the cross connecting rods between the antenna that actually help it. In any case, they work well for VHF high, if your close enough, and you are. The other antenna, the 2020, is actually a UHF/VHF high band combination, and does a bit better for VHF. UHF performance can vary quite a bit between the two. Which is better depends on the tree situation, or other close obstructions. If you can see the towers downtown from your roof top, than either would probably work fine.
Dan

Thanks for the heads up Dan. from the reading I've done this is the impression I've been getting. I will deffinitely have to get a tuner as my Sony WEGA is HD ready and a good outdoor antenna for someone far from the towers. I'd like to keep the combo under $200. Any recommendations on brands would be greatly appreciated.

jb

Thanks for the heads up Dan. from the reading I've done this is the impression I've been getting. I will deffinitely have to get a tuner as my Sony WEGA is HD ready and a good outdoor antenna for someone far from the towers. I'd like to keep the combo under $200. Any recommendations on brands would be greatly appreciated.

jb

JuniorBalloon
The signals from Seattle, channels 4-5-7-9-11-13-16-22, do not bend over hills. It's pretty much a straight shot. What small amount there might be would be WAY down in level at your place. IF you could get a tower about 150ft up, you would still need something with some size to get enough gain to compensate for the long cable run, even with a good preamp, like the Channelmaster7777.
My meter reads down to -28db, which is far below what digital tuners can lock on to. Of the three locations I tried near you, all within a half mile or so, I got zero. I was testing with a CM4248, CM4228 and an Antennacraft MXU59, all with a 7775 preamp. Union Hill is over 600ft elevation, and you're about 370ft, give or take. There's also a smaller hill about a half mile away to the west of Lake Marcel that's about 450ft, plus a LOT of solid fir trees on top of it, not to mention all around you.
IF you still want to go for it, then use a Rat Shack big one (you can take it back when you're done) like the antennacraft HBU55
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3928468&filterName=Brand&filterValue=Antennacraft
Point it towards Lake Marcel. If you swing it around to the south, you'll easily get channels 33-45-51. Not much on them that most people want, however.
One of the most sensitive tuners I've seen is the Channel Master CM7000. Keep one in the van for testing. It doesn't do HD though. They have a new CM7000PAL, which does HD, and is a DVR, but I have not had a chance to test one out.
Let us know what happens if you go for it.
Dan

bonnie_raitt
I hadn't heard they sold out to the Chinese, just had them manufacturing the antennas to their specs.
I found the newer 4228 did have a slightly better signal on VHF high band, (channnels 7-13) than the old one. The UHF portion seemed to be the basically the same. These were never designed to receive VHF high, but they do work somewhat. It's the cross connecting rods between the antenna that actually help it. In any case, they work well for VHF high, if your close enough, and you are. The other antenna, the 2020, is actually a UHF/VHF high band combination, and does a bit better for VHF. UHF performance can vary quite a bit between the two. Which is better depends on the tree situation, or other close obstructions. If you can see the towers downtown from your roof top, than either would probably work fine.
Dan

I have a big cedar tree to the SW about 25 feet from the SW corner of the house. I have more large tress about 100 feet to the south ( I can't get Direct TV because of them). If it wasn't for all the trees, I could probably see Queen Ann.

What do you think?

JuniorBalloon
The signals from Seattle, channels 4-5-7-9-11-13-16-22, do not bend over hills. It's pretty much a straight shot. What small amount there might be would be WAY down in level at your place. IF you could get a tower about 150ft up, you would still need something with some size to get enough gain to compensate for the long cable run, even with a good preamp, like the Channelmaster7777.
My meter reads down to -28db, which is far below what digital tuners can lock on to. Of the three locations I tried near you, all within a half mile or so, I got zero. I was testing with a CM4248, CM4228 and an Antennacraft MXU59, all with a 7775 preamp. Union Hill is over 600ft elevation, and you're about 370ft, give or take. There's also a smaller hill about a half mile away to the west of Lake Marcel that's about 450ft, plus a LOT of solid fir trees on top of it, not to mention all around you.
IF you still want to go for it, then use a Rat Shack big one (you can take it back when you're done) like the antennacraft HBU55
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3928468&filterName=Brand&filterValue=Antennacraft
Point it towards Lake Marcel. If you swing it around to the south, you'll easily get channels 33-45-51. Not much on them that most people want, however.
One of the most sensitive tuners I've seen is the Channel Master CM7000. Keep one in the van for testing. It doesn't do HD though. They have a new CM7000PAL, which does HD, and is a DVR, but I have not had a chance to test one out.
Let us know what happens if you go for it.
Dan

Hi Dan,

I have the Dish DTV Pal DVR, which is believed to be the same box and software as the CM7000PAL HD DVR, except for labels and icons. I consider the ATSC tuner to be the best in my house, far better than my older HD DirecTV Tivo units (as one would expect). I have one at home (to complement my new DirecTV HD DVRs w/o ATSC tuners) and one in my RV, where it's tuner performance is far better than the built-in tuner in my HDTV there.

I bought one for $150 (Sears closeout price at the time) and the other for about $100 (later Sears closeout). Given their design limitations, I am pleased with their performance so far, whether using TVGOS (at home) or PSIP (in the trailer when I can't get KIRO-DT or another TVGOS station, depending on where we are).

Hi Dan,

I have the Dish DTV Pal DVR, which is believed to be the same box and software as the CM7000PAL HD DVR, except for labels and icons. I consider the ATSC tuner to be the best in my house, far better than my older HD DirecTV Tivo units (as one would expect). I have one at home (to complement my new DirecTV HD DVRs w/o ATSC tuners) and one in my RV, where it's tuner performance is far better than the built-in tuner in my HDTV there.

I bought one for $150 (Sears closeout price at the time) and the other for about $100 (later Sears closeout). Given their design limitations, I am pleased with their performance so far, whether using TVGOS (at home) or PSIP (in the trailer when I can't get KIRO-DT or another TVGOS station, depending on where we are).


Dave!
Was thinking about ya while cruising down towards Capital Peak. Always wished we could've run that test.
Thanks for the heads up. Have a Bro-in-law that needs something like that, just haven't had the time to look into it. I was hoping it was as good as the CM7000 converter.
Happy cruising in the trailer.
Dan

I have a big cedar tree to the SW about 25 feet from the SW corner of the house. I have more large tress about 100 feet to the south ( I can't get Direct TV because of them). If it wasn't for all the trees, I could probably see Queen Ann.

What do you think?


bonnie_raitt
If you can find a location for the antenna that's to one side or the other of that big cedar, use the CM2020. If not, then it's hard to say which would be better without testing. Finidng the right sweet spot for it could be interesting.
Patience will really help. I think you have a good chance at success.
Dan