Originally posted by Mike777
I have Queen Anne hill smack between the Bremerton tower and my Wallingford Apartment. Oh well.

Mike
Where are you located? I've done sites all around you and usually pull in 13. QA hill is only partially in the way, and not as much as you would think. 13 transmitts from about 1700ft elevation and sees over most of Wallingford. Now if you have trees or buildings in the way, that might be your true problem. Send an address.
Dan

Technically I am right on the edge of the U. District and wallingford, on 40th and 2nd NE. This is about two blocks up from the water, so in many ways I am in a little valley here. Fortunately, I have plain view of three towers on Capitol Hill and three on Queen Anne. Looking at the map, the mass of Queen Anne Hill is smack between me and Bremerton.

Now I'm not sure where the Tacoma PBS station tower is located, but on occassion I can get these stations clearly. Most of the time there are periodic breakups, so it is basically unwatcheable, but I do receive the signal.

I live in an apartment, so using anything but my Zenith silver sensor is out of the question.

Originally posted by Mike777
Technically I am right on the edge of the U. District and wallingford, on 40th and 2nd NE. This is about two blocks up from the water, so in many ways I am in a little valley here. Fortunately, I have plain view of three towers on Capitol Hill and three on Queen Anne. Looking at the map, the mass of Queen Anne Hill is smack between me and Bremerton.

Now I'm not sure where the Tacoma PBS station tower is located, but on occassion I can get these stations clearly. Most of the time there are periodic breakups, so it is basically unwatcheable, but I do receive the signal.

I live in an apartment, so using anything but my Zenith silver sensor is out of the question.

Mike
QA hill is not in the way. You are 22.5 miles from 13's tower, and roughly at 145ft elevation. Where the signal path crosses QA the hill is only 300ft elevation. It's also 2 miles from you. 13's tower is about 1700ft elevation, which means the signal path to you clears the hill by at least 300-400ft.
If you can get the antenna some place where it can see more to the west, at a bearing of about 252 degrees. you might get a better shot at it. Ch28 KBTC transmitts from NW Tacoma, near Point Defiance Park, with a really weak transmitter. It is possible to get it from where you are, but will most likely take a little more antenna.
Dan

Originally posted by Joe Hendrix
Dan Kurtz... do you ever come help us poor souls over on the peninsula trying to get our OTA DTV??? I live over near Port Orchard and have an old UHF antenna up on my roof. I'm getting 4-1 (and now 4-2), 9-1, 9-2, 9-3, 9-5, 16-1 all pretty well from the roof antenna. I then added a switch to an indoor antenna in order to get 5-1. I was getting 7-1 pretty good a week or two ago, and now it's just all pixels. The other ones (11-1, 13-1, 22-1) are all very fringe reception, bouncing in and out.

I don't know if just by adding a preamp, like a 7775 would do the trick. If I need a different antenna like a 4248 or 4228. Or both. Or, maybe I'm just wasting my time.

If you do come out here occasionaly, any chance you could help me out?

Joe
Got your phone call, will call you Sunday.
You should not be having any hill problems. Trees might be doing you in. Most likely it's just the antenna you're using.
I'll explain more tomorrow when I call.
Dan

ISF guy
Sorry, you caught me dozing off on the patio!
Tried to write down your website and name, etc. but to sleepy to get up, and the rays were soooo relaxing.... Then I made the mistake of trying to remember it !
PM me or call again Sunday.
Thanks
Dan

Anyone else having problems with the Golf today on Kiro? The picture is narrow and doesn't go all the way to to bottom of the screen. There appears to be no way of contacting Kiro on weekends via phone. I tried to get through on the news line, but they said no one is in engineering, but that someone else had called earlier. Seems odd to me that no one is home (sounds like BS really, but maybe they are that automated).

yeehaw!

I told my Samsung t-165 to scan for channels and it found UPN!! kstw DT 11-1. Now I'm finally happy :D :D :D :D :D


edit: guess I spoke to soon, I seem to have traded for Komo-DT :(

Yeah, the Kiro 7 signal is messed up today. A little black bar on the bottom and top appears to be cutoff. Not too bad, but a problem.

Thanks for the information DanKurts, but I still can't get channel 13 (digital 18). The most signal I get is about 10%, which isn't enough to even display a picture. This is different from PBS Tacoma, where even at 10%, I can usually lock onto at least one freeze frame. It isn't viewable, but at least I know it is there. For channel 13, I moved my antenna all over the place and best I could get was 20%. Even this didn't give me any picture. I have a clear view of Queen Anne. I can't see any towers but the three big ones and one small one. Even if Bremerton tower is viewable, the haze might not allow me to see it.

Originally posted by Mike777
Yeah, the Kiro 7 signal is messed up today. A little black bar on the bottom and top appears to be cutoff. Not too bad, but a problem.

Thanks for the information DanKurts, but I still can't get channel 13 (digital 18). The most signal I get is about 10%, which isn't enough to even display a picture. This is different from PBS Tacoma, where even at 10%, I can usually lock onto at least one freeze frame. It isn't viewable, but at least I know it is there. For channel 13, I moved my antenna all over the place and best I could get was 20%. Even this didn't give me any picture. I have a clear view of Queen Anne. I can't see any towers but the three big ones and one small one. Even if Bremerton tower is viewable, the haze might not allow me to see it.

Mike
If you want to try something else, I have used a 4221 setting inside a south facing window (up against the glass) in an apartment near 44th and Sunnyside and was able to get 13. If you have a western facing window, all the better. You may not be able to see 13 tower from where you are, but it's possible.
Dan

Originally posted by Mike777
Yeah, the Kiro 7 signal is messed up today. A little black bar on the bottom and top appears to be cutoff. Not too bad, but a problem.

Well, it was supposed to be an HD source too, and apparently wasn't (ignoring the cuttoff, it was 4:3).

Originally posted by Mike777
... I still can't get channel 13 (digital 18). The most signal I get is about 10%, which isn't enough to even display a picture. This is different from PBS Tacoma, where even at 10%, I can usually lock onto at least one freeze frame. It isn't viewable, but at least I know it is there. For channel 13, I moved my antenna all over the place and best I could get was 20%. Even this didn't give me any picture. I have a clear view of Queen Anne. I can't see any towers but the three big ones and one small one. Even if Bremerton tower is viewable, the haze might not allow me to see it.
I confirmed what Dan said. You do have direct line-of-site to Bremerton so your problem is most likely multipath interference. There are a lot of buildings in the area to reflect signals. These out-of-phase reflections cause most receivers to barf. It sounds like you have done the first step already, which is to move your existing antenna around to all possible locations. One of the best tools I've seen to combat multipath is to use a highly directional antenna with a screen or blocking element on the back side to cut down on reflected signals. If you can afford to experiment with other antennas I would try that. Are you limited to indoor-only? Radio Shack still sells the double-bowtie and another indoor antenna that work well. The (expensive) Winegard SquareShooter might be worth a try.

I noticed that the KIRO-DT upconverted broadcast of the Torchlight parade Saturday night had the picture out of frame vertically--that is, the picture was longer on the bottom and chopped off on the top. This was really obvious when bottom-of-screen graphics on the analog broadcast appeared 1/3 of the way up the screen on the digital simulcast.

It sounds like the same problem lingered through at least part of Sunday. I haven't watched any upconverted SDTV on KIRO-DT since the parade, so I don't know where things stand right now.

Originally posted by quarque
.... These out-of-phase reflections cause most receivers to barf.

I don't think I've ever seen "barf" used as a technical term :)

The news just started on KIRO-DT and their picture is still offset upward vertically on my set, with a small black band across the bottom and the tops of pictures (mostly noticable on top-of-screen graphic titles) are cut off. Tops of heads are also cut off.

Do they never look at their own digital broadcast?

I have never been successful reaching any engineer at KIRO via email or phone. I have communicted one way or the other or both with most every other major Seattle DTV station.

If anyone here has KIRO's ear, please repport this problem to them.

Hey everyone, it's late so I'm just going to share some good news. But, after many months, I have an OTA setup that is getting KOMO, KING, KIRO, KCTS, KCPQ, KTWB, KWPX all around 70% or better. KSTW comes in around 25%, and KONG is pretty much un-obtainable.

Believe it or not, I took home an old pair of RCA rabbit ears (ANT200B), hooked it up to the 2nd antenna port on my DTV reciever, and here come KOMO and KING clean as day. (I'd spent about a month working with a Terk Medium Dir antenna, and CM7777 and just could not get either of these 2...)

Strange occurance, and it might just be coicidence, but if ya got a pair of rabbit ears, try throwing them up to see if you can squeeze in that extra station or two you want.
Thanks to quarqe for the site profile (you had me absolutely conviced I could get it to work, and I'm grateful I didn't give up.)

I attempted to send a message to the KIRO engineers via their web site again tonight to report this problem of out-of-frame SDTV upconverts on KIRO-DT.

I am not optimisitic since I have never received any response from them on prior attempts.

Originally posted by Budget_HT
Do they never look at their own digital broadcast?.

Judging by King's HD news, no--they probably don't look at their digital broadcast. King has no idea what's included in the picture for HD, so you sometimes see the person to the side flipping through papers, etc.

BTW, I checked KIRO during an HD broadcast last night and it was fine. The golf should have been HD, but maybe it was SD. I'll try to check an SD program later.

I have not seen any problem with HD programming on KIRO-DT--just with SD programming.

DanKurts or Quarque:

Have any experience with Antennasdirect? Found them from another post here on AVS and the long range antennas, specifically the 91XG or 43XG look very directional. Might be a good solution for those with multipath problems who are a fair distance out from the towers.

EDIT: Holy moley, those are big... maybe not such a great solution. The 91XG is over 7ft long!

-Lance

spainb - congrats on your success! It is true that you never know what antenna will work and you are not the first to waste a lot of time/money on Terk products.

litzdog - B.A.R.F. - acronym for Better Admit Real Failure... :D

KING's HD news is hilarious (widescreen, not widescreen, SD, HD).

I noticed KOMO on the other hand is really making an attempt to improve their news broadcasts. All of the in studio is in HD, while even some of the field reports are in better Widescreen SD

Hey lkinley/Lance,

I just spotted your antenna across the valley from me (OK, so really i looked at a map) Hows KOMO-DT coming in for you? My rotor appears dead and I can't tune it in by hand :confused:

Anyone tried getting a D* waiver from any of the local networks?
What was your experience? Did it get rejected flat out? Rubber stamp approval?

Amazing how you can spot my antenna in the attic :)

KOMO comes in fine, I never have problems with KOMO.

KSTW-11 and KCPQ-13 on the other hand, are problematic.

Today 11 is coming in, but not 13. Tomorrow will likely result in the opposite :)

-Lance

Originally posted by lkinley
DanKurts or Quarque:

Have any experience with Antennasdirect? Found them from another post here on AVS and the long range antennas, specifically the 91XG or 43XG look very directional. Might be a good solution for those with multipath problems who are a fair distance out from the towers.

EDIT: Holy moley, those are big... maybe not such a great solution. The 91XG is over 7ft long!

-Lance

Lance
Ben there, bought the t-shirt, got the coffe mug, etc.
This is the made in England Blake JBX antenna series.

http://www.blake-uk.com/

I bought one of the big 21's in the WB wide band type and one of the ones optimized for the group B, for mid band. I tried them for about 4 or 5 months, against the 4248 and the MXU59 from AntennaCraft. (It's almost 9ft long.) They did not do any better. Once, at a site where I was looking for primarily gain, it did a hair better on one channel, but worse on others from a 4248. Most of the time they did okay, but when the site was buried in the trees or over a hill, they weren't as good. I know some people live and die by the specs, graphs and charts, and it's something to consider, but in the real world, they just aren't any better. Their construction is kind of cheesey, too. The main boom is really small, that's why they have the second lower support boom. I would bet they do well in England, though, because I've heard most of their transmissions are in a circular pattern, unlike our horizontal pattern. That's why all the X type front elements. They found it worked well reducing analog ghosting. There are a few TV stations here that use the circular pattern, ch13 analog for example. You cannot buy the cut-for-13 VHF circular type antenna anymore. Channel Master made them for a while. If you try to get 13 analog with ANY kind of antenna, you will still have some ghosting, even in line of sight conditions.

So, is it worth it? I don't think so. Some have used them with great success, but I would venture to say a 4248 or similar quality yagi would have done just as well, in 95% of the cases.

Out in Snohomish your problems are most likely not multipath. The signals are just too weak. The trees are not causing bounced signals as much as they're blocking the signals. Gain is something you might need, and a narrow reception capability, which most long yagi's have. That's also why they usually do better than the multi bay bow tie type 4228's in the trees.

For grins, what's your address and I'll look you up. I have some wins out there, and it's always good to know what someone else is getting at a particular site.
Dan

Originally posted by TAB
Anyone tried getting a D* waiver from any of the local networks?
What was your experience? Did it get rejected flat out? Rubber stamp approval?

Depends on which flavor locals you're referring to. If you mean the regular analog locals, it's not required, they're already available for a few bucks more per month.
The East/West coast feeds, a program they used to advertise more, is almost impossible around Snohomish/King/Pierce counties. It has KOMO4 as the part of the West coast package, and then San Francisco, LA and I think Denver. Several of my customers have had it for years. But when I've attempted to help others, the locals won't sign the waivers anymore. I haven't a clue why, but it's really silly. One customer lived right next door to one that did have it! The people who do have it are grandfathered, sort of, as they still get it even when I've upgraded receivers. I've also noticed they have 2 new CBS channels in the mid 80 number range, I think, but have yet had someone order or use them. I am in the process of upgrading one customer that has the feeds to a new high def setup, and I'm curious if they will now be using those channels. Will let you know in a month or so.
Dan

Originally posted by DanKurts
Lance

Out in Snohomish your problems are most likely not multipath. The signals are just too weak. The trees are not causing bounced signals as much as they're blocking the signals. Gain is something you might need, and a narrow reception capability, which most long yagi's have. That's also why they usually do better than the multi bay bow tie type 4228's in the trees.

For grins, what's your address and I'll look you up. I have some wins out there, and it's always good to know what someone else is getting at a particular site.
Dan

I'm not really in Snohomish, I'm just east of Mill Creek with a Sno address. In fact, I just got something in the mail from the County saying there is a proposal to have Mill Creek annex our area.

The closest cross street is 43rd Ave & 134th St, and Quarque tells me that I have line of site to QA. I think the trees to the south 3-400 yards away are a problem, along with the fact that I have the CM4221 antenna in the attic. The CM7777 pre-amp helps with the loss of signal strength, but I still have trouble with 11 and 13. 4,5,7,9,22 all come in no problem. 16 is sporadic, but I don't really care.

-Lance

Originally posted by DanKurts
Depends on which flavor locals you're referring to. If you mean the regular analog locals, it's not required, they're already available for a few bucks more per month.
The East/West coast feeds, a program they used to advertise more, is almost impossible around Snohomish/King/Pierce counties. It has KOMO4 as the part of the West coast package, and then San Francisco, LA and I think Denver. Several of my customers have had it for years. But when I've attempted to help others, the locals won't sign the waivers anymore. I haven't a clue why, but it's really silly. One customer lived right next door to one that did have it! The people who do have it are grandfathered, sort of, as they still get it even when I've upgraded receivers. I've also noticed they have 2 new CBS channels in the mid 80 number range, I think, but have yet had someone order or use them. I am in the process of upgrading one customer that has the feeds to a new high def setup, and I'm curious if they will now be using those channels. Will let you know in a month or so.
Dan

I'm interested in the HD feeds from D*. CBS HD west is on 84, NBC & FOX HD are both coming in the next month or so. If I could get a waiver for them I could take down my 4228 (my current source of local HD). However I'd still need D* to pick up ABC HD.
Tom

Help with OTA?
How do you know if you are too close and what to do if I am to close? I visited the antennaweb.org and it shows I'm on average about 7 to 8 miles away with FOX being the only exception broadcasting from Tacoma at about 21 miles away. I live in West Seattle near Target any help is really appreciated!
Thanks!
-RZ

Greetings

I've been a viewer of this forum for about 8 months but this is my first post. I live out here in Southern Pierce County. The nearest cross streets are 352nd St. South & 16th Ave. Ct. South in Roy. Was wondering if anyone else has any experiences out here. I can pick up KCPQ -DT most of the time but none of the Seattle stations. I do have alot of trees around, but none in the directions between 320 and 360. I am currently using an old Rat Shack on the roof of a 2 story house.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Mervman

Originally posted by rzim
Help with OTA?
How do you know if you are too close and what to do if I am to close? I visited the antennaweb.org and it shows I'm on average about 7 to 8 miles away with FOX being the only exception broadcasting from Tacoma at about 21 miles away. I live in West Seattle near Target any help is really appreciated!
Thanks!
-RZ
You are not TOO close to anything. There are AVS members who live only a stone's throw from towers and still get OTA. Your location has one problem off hand: KCPQ broadcasts from just west of Bremerton and all the other major networks are NE of you. This will require either a rotor or a combined pair of antennas. If you care to post your nearest intersection I can also check your line-of-sight to the major towers. If you have any hills in the way you may be SOL.

Originally posted by Mervman
Greetings

I've been a viewer of this forum for about 8 months but this is my first post. I live out here in Southern Pierce County. The nearest cross streets are 352nd St. South & 16th Ave. Ct. South in Roy. Was wondering if anyone else has any experiences out here. I can pick up KCPQ -DT most of the time but none of the Seattle stations. I do have alot of trees around, but none in the directions between 320 and 360. I am currently using an old Rat Shack on the roof of a 2 story house.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Mervman
Welcome to AVS! I took a look at your topography and you have no major hills in the way. You are at about 500 feet elevation and about 48 miles from the QA towers. Due to the distance you will want a good high-gain antenna. Your RS unit may not have enough gain or directionality. I would try a CM4228 or other high-gain unit. Your compass heading for QA is 347 deg. What receiver are you using? Do you have a long cable run between it and the antenna? If so, you may want to try a preamp.

Originally posted by TAB
Anyone tried getting a D* waiver from any of the local networks?
What was your experience? Did it get rejected flat out? Rubber stamp approval?


I'm in Duvall and applied for the waivers years ago , when D* starting blocking the East/West feeds.

I had no problems with them besides some of the locals were slow in their response.

When the Seattle locals became available, I was given the option to keep the East/West feeds along with the locals, which I did.

I'd say 90% of what we watch on "D*" is from the East Coast networks...it just fits our lifestyle better...watching the programs 3 hours earlier. ;)


Have you tried just adding them to your package?...Seems to me along as you subscribe to the locals they shouldn't care.

Hi All,
We just moved from Philly to Seattle..We are getting a place in Woodward at Elliott farms.. the closest intersection to that place is 142nd Place SE and 140th Ave( up on the hill) 140th Ave is off of Rt 169. Can someone please tell me if this location is OK for OTA?

I would also appreciate any recommendations for home theater installers. Mainly want to have front and rear speakers put on the wall, cabling hidden through the walls etc in the living room. I am considering getting DirecTV..so if there is someone who would do both, that would also be cool.

TIA

-Rajesh

Rajesh - I think I found your location but I'm not sure. I found 142nd Place SE about 2 miles east of Renton. It is a nice plateau with no hills in your way so OTA should be very easy unless you have trees or buildings to contend with. If this is not your location then give me a direction and distance to a major intersection or town.

Larry

Originally posted by NHLFAN
Have you tried just adding them to your package?...Seems to me along as you subscribe to the locals they shouldn't care.

No I haven't tried calling D* to add the HD locals. I already subscribe to the HD package and the locals, but they don't pass the HD locals through. I'll try giving them a call. Who knows....
Tom

Originally posted by rajeshh
Hi All,
We just moved from Philly to Seattle..We are getting a place in Woodward at Elliott farms.. the closest intersection to that place is 142nd Place SE and 140th Ave( up on the hill) 140th Ave is off of Rt 169. Can someone please tell me if this location is OK for OTA?

I would also appreciate any recommendations for home theater installers. Mainly want to have front and rear speakers put on the wall, cabling hidden through the walls etc in the living room. I am considering getting DirecTV..so if there is someone who would do both, that would also be cool.

TIA

-Rajesh

Here are some companies that do high end home theater installs.
I've done work for all of them. The cleanest installs that I've seen from the bunch are done by Premier. I deal with Rick Conces. Definitive has a nice show room with lots of speakers. I deal with Jim Corder there. There are quite a few more companies in town, but these are the ones that I have experience with.

www.definitive.com
www.premier-theater.com
www.magnoliahifi.com

Somebody let me know if I've goofed by putting URLs in my last post.
I'm a real newbie with forums.

LLTool - it's cool.

Hi Larry,
I think you found the location correct. It is 2 lights north of intersection of Petrovitsky road and 140th Ave. The community is on a kind of a plateau.

So in Philly I had decent success with the RS bow-ties inside the house. Will those work here?

-Rajesh

LLTool, thanks for the info. I have the speakers etc already..mainly looking for the installation.

Also came across the list below on a google search. Anyone familiar with any of the guys on this list:


http://phonebook.superpages.com/yellowpages/C-Stereo+Equipment+Dealers/S-WA/T-Seattle/

-Rajesh

Originally posted by rajeshh
Hi Larry,
I think you found the location correct. It is 2 lights north of intersection of Petrovitsky road and 140th Ave. The community is on a kind of a plateau.

So in Philly I had decent success with the RS bow-ties inside the house. Will those work here?

-Rajesh
You certainly could try it but I would be surprised if you got all the locals with it. My first antenna was a RS bowtie and it worked pretty good but I had some dropouts. I ended up putting a Channel Master 4228 on the roof and have had zero problems with reception ever since. That is what I would suggest to you as well. Fry's in Renton stocks them.

Originally posted by quarque
Welcome to AVS! I took a look at your topography and you have no major hills in the way. You are at about 500 feet elevation and about 48 miles from the QA towers. Due to the distance you will want a good high-gain antenna. Your RS unit may not have enough gain or directionality. I would try a CM4228 or other high-gain unit. Your compass heading for QA is 347 deg. What receiver are you using? Do you have a long cable run between it and the antenna? If so, you may want to try a preamp.


Mervman
The direction you're shooting for is just to the east of north about 10 degrees. Using 16th ave as a north/south indicator, looking towards Seattle, a hair to the right. Don't be surprised if it works better 20+ degrees either way of north, though. I've done work out there, mostly surveys since HD started up. The trees are where the problem is. You don't get any relief for at least 4 miles, before the plateau drops off enough to get out of your way. That's why the signals are very weak out there. 13 is coming in okay because it's almost line of sight to you, (it's transmitter 700 ft higher than Seattle stations) and you said there were no trees to the NW. Usually, I can see a few stations, but the trees really chop up the waveshape on the analyzer. Bedsprings, like 4228 don't work as well out there. Try a 4248 or similar yagi type and a 7775 preamp.

Originally posted by rzim
Help with OTA?
How do you know if you are too close and what to do if I am to close? I visited the antennaweb.org and it shows I'm on average about 7 to 8 miles away with FOX being the only exception broadcasting from Tacoma at about 21 miles away. I live in West Seattle near Target any help is really appreciated!
Thanks!
-RZ

rzim
Surprisingly, you won't need a rotor or two antennas. I've done many jobs within a 1/2 mile of you and was able to get 13 from the west and the rest from the north with just a 4221. The only problem your house may have is if there's some huge trees or tall structures that may be in the way. You are in a small valley, with Barton rising to the west slightly, but 13's tower is so high it's still basically line of sight to you. Just be sure you get it up on the roof or at least outside.
Dan

Originally posted by lkinley
I'm not really in Snohomish, I'm just east of Mill Creek with a Sno address. In fact, I just got something in the mail from the County saying there is a proposal to have Mill Creek annex our area.

The closest cross street is 43rd Ave & 134th St, and Quarque tells me that I have line of site to QA. I think the trees to the south 3-400 yards away are a problem, along with the fact that I have the CM4221 antenna in the attic. The CM7777 pre-amp helps with the loss of signal strength, but I still have trouble with 11 and 13. 4,5,7,9,22 all come in no problem. 16 is sporadic, but I don't really care.

-Lance

Lance
Yes, you are in good location. I agree, it's most likely the attic that's hurting the signal. If you could get it outside, it might even work with out the preamp. It doesn't need to be up high, or even on the roof. Just somewhere it can see to the SW.
Dan

I was beginning to think my antenna was messed up this evening while watching "The Days" on KOMO-DT at 10:00pm. Lots of audio/video breakups. But the local KOMO breaks were fine. And the news at 11:00 was fine. Perhaps an ABC feed problem? Did anyone else notice this?

Thanks.

I keep hearing about 24 hour a day Olympics digital broadcasts on "NBC HDTV", but there is nothing on KING5.com about it.

Does anyone have any info on this? Are they going to start an HD subchannel (5-2) for the Olympics?

I wanted to report back in with an update, and to give DanKurts a big thanks!!!

I took Dan's suggestion and went to Radio Shack and picked up a different antenna than what I had. I got the UHF only (4228?). Put it up yesterday, and to my wonderful surprise I get all of the digital feeds (except 13-1, which is pointed in a totally different direction). Checked the signal strength from the menu in my Panasonic 60LCX, and they were all above 80%. Since I already had set up a splitter for a separate indoor antenna, I pointed that antenna (Silver Sensor) toward 13-1, and brought that signal in at around 65%.

I am now one happy camper. Thanks, again, Dan.

Originally posted by Steve Schauer
I keep hearing about 24 hour a day Olympics digital broadcasts on "NBC HDTV", but there is nothing on KING5.com about it.

Does anyone have any info on this? Are they going to start an HD subchannel (5-2) for the Olympics?

The schedules are on NBC's Olympics site at http://www.nbcolympics.com

The HD Olympics will, I assume, be the only show broadcast on KING's DTV signal.

Originally posted by Joe Hendrix
I wanted to report back in with an update, and to give DanKurts a big thanks!!!

I took Dan's suggestion and went to Radio Shack and picked up a different antenna than what I had. I got the UHF only (4228?). Put it up yesterday, and to my wonderful surprise I get all of the digital feeds (except 13-1, which is pointed in a totally different direction). Checked the signal strength from the menu in my Panasonic 60LCX, and they were all above 80%. Since I already had set up a splitter for a separate indoor antenna, I pointed that antenna (Silver Sensor) toward 13-1, and brought that signal in at around 65%.

I am now one happy camper. Thanks, again, Dan.

Joe
Welcome!
The antenna is the small Rat Shack UHF/VHF cheapie, 15-2151. Nothing to write home about, but fine for where you are. I'm a little surprised it didn't bring in 13, too. Did you try aiming it more to the north to see if 13 might come in on the side? Just curious.
Dan

The antenna is that one that you stated earlier that's hard to find because Radio Shack doesn't make it anymore??? I'll have to look at the box and let you know. I do know that it is the UHF only antenna that I put up.

Anyway, once I got it up and got everything but 13, I didn't want to test my luck and start re-arrange the antenna to squeeze out the one lone channel that I'm not getting. Then, only to find after the trial, not being able to get back those channels I received earlier.

But... now that you've suggested pointing it a bit more north, I may do that when I am feeling a bit more ambitious.

The antenna is that one that you stated earlier that's hard to find because Radio Shack doesn't make it anymore??? I'll have to look at the box and let you know. I do know that it is the UHF only antenna that I put up.

Anyway, once I got it up and got everything but 13, I didn't want to test my luck and start re-arrange the antenna to squeeze out the one lone channel that I'm not getting. Then, only to find after the trial, not being able to get back those channels I received earlier.

But... now that you've suggested pointing it a bit more north, I may do that when I am feeling a bit more ambitious.

Originally posted by litzdog911
The schedules are on NBC's Olympics site at http://www.nbcolympics.com

The HD Olympics will, I assume, be the only show broadcast on KING's DTV signal.

I'm very curious about this too. I've looked at King5.com's schedule and on TitanTV, and they don't show any specific HD coverage. Also, on NBCOlympics.com, their HD coverage looks kind of sketchy: the first few days show nothing but the Opening Ceremonies repeated.

It's unclear what, if any, HD coverage King5 will have at this point. Does anyone else have insight?


Ivan

All I know is what NBC says at:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/tvlistings/5021997/detail.html

which shows each day in detail and generally the HDTV section lists 2-4 sports and says "24 hours". My guess is that they will prune out 4-8 hours of each day's games and then repeat that edited version for 24 hours straight. Each day will get a new chunk of editied coverage. While this is a little disappointing, I am glad to see all the coverage on their cable networks (just in case you are a hard-core table tennis or badminton fan :) ). Note that the HD coverage of the closing ceremony starts at 1:00 AM MONDAY - real nice...

Originally posted by quarque
All I know is what NBC says at:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/tvlistings/5021997/detail.html

which shows each day in detail and generally the HDTV section lists 2-4 sports and says "24 hours". My guess is that they will prune out 4-8 hours of each day's games and then repeat that edited version for 24 hours straight. Each day will get a new chunk of editied coverage. While this is a little disappointing, I am glad to see all the coverage on their cable networks (just in case you are a hard-core table tennis or badminton fan :) ).

It still seems inconsistent to me though. For instance, on the first day there are Opening Ceremonies on regular NBC from 8:00 - midnight, as well as on NBC HDTV from 9:00 to 1:00am. Since there is really only one NBC channel locally (King5), how will they handle this? Are they going to show the first hour in SD, and then repeat it? Or are they going to show the whole SD thing? When does the "regular" NBC feed get pre-empted for the HD feed? During most of the days there is non-stop live coverage of the events; when does the "repeated" HD stuff kick in?

I'm just confused. :)


Ivan

As are we all...

I knew they were going to screw this whole thing up so those of us with HD sets will just be confused, disappointed, disgruntled, pissed off, confused again, furious, confused and generally let down.

Originally posted by Ivan H.
It still seems inconsistent to me though. For instance, on the first day there are Opening Ceremonies on regular NBC from 8:00 - midnight, as well as on NBC HDTV from 9:00 to 1:00am. Since there is really only one NBC channel locally (King5), how will they handle this? Are they going to show the first hour in SD, and then repeat it? Or are they going to show the whole SD thing? When does the "regular" NBC feed get pre-empted for the HD feed? During most of the days there is non-stop live coverage of the events; when does the "repeated" HD stuff kick in?

I'm just confused. :)


Ivan

See also the NBC Olympics information threads here in the HDTV Programming Forum ....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=410990

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=432732

According to the Guide data on my HR10-250 HD DirecTivo, the KING-DT schedule starts its 8-hour block at 1am, running each 8-hour block at 1am-9am, 9am-5pm, and 5pm-1am. It's not the exact same coverage as the SD NBC coverage, rather fed by Japan's HDTV network with US commentary. The events are also delayed approx 24 hours compared to the SD "prime time" coverage.

Originally posted by litzdog911
.....It's not the exact same coverage as the SD NBC coverage, rather fed by Japan's HDTV network with US commentary.

I'd rather listen to the Japanese commentary - and I don't speak Japanese. However if this is true maybe we won't have to suffer through NBC's heart tugging athlete profiles that eat up 80% of their coverage. Those things make me sick.
Tom

Originally posted by litzdog911
According to the Guide data on my HR10-250 HD DirecTivo, the KING-DT schedule starts its 8-hour block at 1am, running each 8-hour block at 1am-9am, 9am-5pm, and 5pm-1am. It's not the exact same coverage as the SD NBC coverage, rather fed by Japan's HDTV network with US commentary. The events are also delayed approx 24 hours compared to the SD "prime time" coverage.
Do they tell what game is on at what time during the 8-hour block? That is the main problem with NBC's website - not enough detail.

Dan... just wanted to get back to you and let you know that I got the Radio Shack model 15-2160 antenna.

Thanks, again.

Originally posted by Joe Hendrix
Dan... just wanted to get back to you and let you know that I got the Radio Shack model 15-2160 antenna.

Thanks, again.

Joe
Wow, I'm impressed! Haven't seen one in the stores for years. You don't need to worry about loosing channels, if you want to play. Make a mark on the mast where it meets the clamp or foot that holds it in place. All you need to do is get it close to where it was before and it will lock in. Your location is pretty good.
If you do have any luck, let us know.
Dan

Originally posted by quarque
Do they tell what game is on at what time during the 8-hour block? That is the main problem with NBC's website - not enough detail.

I agree .... not enough detail! I'm on vacation for the next couple of weeks so I had to make some tough choices when programming the recordings on my HR10-250 HD DirecTivo .... it "only" holds 30-hours of HD programming after all. :)

Originally posted by litzdog911
I agree .... not enough detail! I'm on vacation for the next couple of weeks so I had to make some tough choices when programming the recordings on my HR10-250 HD DirecTivo .... it "only" holds 30-hours of HD programming after all. :)

Yes, the detail sucks! I just got the new ATI HDTV Wonder card for my PC and I'm also having to make touch decisions. I'll be on vacation for a good portion of the games, too.

The card's tuner seems to be even more sensitive than my LG box. I can pick up KTBC from Tacoma with it, although it is a bit jittery, but I was never able to get that with the LG. Weird how I can get that, but 13-1 still doesn't come in.

Video quality is quite good with the card, too.

-Lance

Thanks for the help, my nearest cross street is Roxbury and 24th Ave SW. It seems that the consensus is that I'm not too close but probably need an antenna on the roof as opposed to my radio shack rabbit ears.
-RZ

rzim - you have no hills to contend with so any decent antenna should work. CM4221 might be a good choice. Try pointing it a little NW and see if you can get ch 13 at the same time as QA and CH towers.

Originally posted by litzdog911
I agree .... not enough detail! I'm on vacation for the next couple of weeks so I had to make some tough choices when programming the recordings on my HR10-250 HD DirecTivo .... it "only" holds 30-hours of HD programming after all. :)
My problem is I have *NO* HD recording ability right now. So I am at the mercy of those wonderful editors and schedulers. If I knew exactly which game was on at what time in HD it would really help. I love it that the closing ceremony first appears in HD at 1:00 AM Monday morning. Guess I will wait until Monday night for that. Oops, I am going on vacation the 29th. Oh well, if you seen one closing ceremony you've seen them all... NOT! The other thing I've noticed is there are some disagreements between various websites about what is on at which time. The Brazil-USA soccer game is on Sat. morning at either 6:00 8:00 or 10:00 depending on who you ask. What a load of %$#@!

Thanks everybody! I just put an order in for the cm 4221!
-RZ

Well here it is 8 on Friday night and the local NBC station is showing Olympics in HD. There is only one small problem, they are showing reruns of the Salt Lake City winter olympics?!!!!

I can't believe it. I had to turn to my lousy analog channel to get the opening ceremony.

I just checked the thread specifically on this and it mentioned 9 ET/PT as the start of HD coverage, so I'm holding out hope they will switch to the opening ceremonies in a little bit.

Looks like they are carrying what the analog station carried, but 1 hr delayed.

I tuned in at 11:45pm to catch Greece entering the staduim (flipped over to analog and they we're just about to light the torch)... however, at 12 midnight, KING5's local new broadcast comes on!!!

Then, at 12:07 - it switches back to the opening ceremonies...

then a news byte, now back again.


Sure hope they decide which feed they are going to show... it's 12:11 right now and they are showing the games once again.

On the bright side, they are broadcasting in 1080i, so it looks GREAT!!!

I have been using DirecTV high def for about 2 years on a 32 inch Sammy Direct view. But as you know no local HD channels through them. I have been waiting for the new Toshiba with HD tuner or possibly the Mts with tuner. I am now wondering after visiting this forum if I can even get HD reception here. The guy at Best Buy in Olympia said they recommend a Blue Bird antenna installed .... for $300!!!! I'm a product of the fifties, I grew up with the old man spending most of the night on the roof with the family yelling the results of his twisting the antenna out the window. i hate to go back to those days. I need to know if my location is viable for OTA HD.
I'm located at 4 corners ...Vail Road and Bald Hill Road, near Yelm. Any info would be greatly appreciated, Thanks
DeWayne

I actually hope stations do show HD material when they have an SD source live. Example, an HD football game if the Seahawks are in SD. But this is nuts. I can't imagine what they were thinking?

What did they do? Let the idiots in the news department take over the entire station?

I thought the artistic part of the ceremony was well done and looked terrific in HD. But I fell asleep during the parade of nations and had to catch the ending this morning on the replay. They need some way to get all 202 countries into the stadium faster - perhaps have them jog in and use one of those "speed-talkers" for announcing the names. :D

The commentary was overdone and too patronizing. The worst was the SONY commercial shown over and over and over and over and...

On another topic, I emailed KING5 asking them why they won't post the schedule for the DT channel. They replied with "... get back to you shortly." Well, I'm still waiting. I think the HD coverage is going to be somewhat useless for me since I have no idea what is shown and when. At least the SD coverage has scheduling on the nbc site. What a waste of HD by nbc.

HD reception Yelm, WA area
Hi everyone , I posted this earlier but guess in the wrong forum I have been using DirecTV high def for about 2 years on a 32 inch Sammy Direct view. But as you know no local HD channels through them. I have been waiting for the new Toshiba with HD tuner or possibly the Mts with tuner. I am now wondering after visiting this forum if I can even get HD reception here. The guy at Best Buy in Olympia said they recommend a Blue Bird antenna installed .... for $300!!!! I'm a product of the fifties, I grew up with the old man spending most of the night on the roof with the family yelling the results of his twisting the antenna out the window. I hate to go back to those days. I need to know if my location is viable for OTA HD.
I'm located at 4 corners ...Vail Road and Bald Hill Road, near Yelm. Any info would be greatly appreciated, Thanks
DeWayne

Originally posted by radtek
HD reception Yelm, WA area
Hi everyone , I posted this earlier but guess in the wrong forum I have been using DirecTV high def for about 2 years on a 32 inch Sammy Direct view. But as you know no local HD channels through them. I have been waiting for the new Toshiba with HD tuner or possibly the Mts with tuner. I am now wondering after visiting this forum if I can even get HD reception here. The guy at Best Buy in Olympia said they recommend a Blue Bird antenna installed .... for $300!!!! I'm a product of the fifties, I grew up with the old man spending most of the night on the roof with the family yelling the results of his twisting the antenna out the window. I hate to go back to those days. I need to know if my location is viable for OTA HD.
I'm located at 4 corners ...Vail Road and Bald Hill Road, near Yelm. Any info would be greatly appreciated, Thanks
DeWayne
Your line-of-sight looks very good - no hills. You are 50 miles from QA towers which could present a challenge if you have trees to go through. So that is the first question. If you have no trees to worry about then put up a good high-gain antenna like the CM4228 on the roof and you should do OK. There are also some yagi designs that can handle that distance. If you aim due north you may be able to get Bremerton as well. Otherwise you would want to aim about 10-15 degrees east of due north to maximize the Seattle signals. Anything other than a roof mount would most likely not get enough signal.

Quargue, Thanks for the info. I have no trees near, sort of a high plain area around here. Like I said have direcTV and would love to be able to not pay for local channels + pick up their OTA high def signals. Do you know what Best Buy was referring to by Blue Boy antenna said it was a tubular type?
DeWayne

radtek - Blue Boy or Blue Bird - it sounds like one of those tubular gimmick antennas that rely on an amplifier to make up for a lack of actual metal for signal reception. They probably work under certain circumstances. But I've been following antenna choices on AVS for 3 years now and in the 20 - 60 mile range the favorite has been the Channel Master 4228. Of the 20+ 4228 installations I know of, only two users found another antenna worked better. This usually has to do with reflections and the particular sensitivity of each antenna to off-axis signals at different angles. The other way to proceed is to hire an installer that has a half-dozen UHF antennas to try out. Are you wanting reception of analogs as well? All the major stations have a digital transmission now and they're all UHF.

Originally posted by quarque
radtek - Blue Boy or Blue Bird - it sounds like one of those tubular gimmick antennas that rely on an amplifier to make up for a lack of actual metal for signal reception. They probably work under certain circumstances. But I've been following antenna choices on AVS for 3 years now and in the 20 - 60 mile range the favorite has been the Channel Master 4228. Of the 20+ 4228 installations I know of, only two users found another antenna worked better. This usually has to do with reflections and the particular sensitivity of each antenna to off-axis signals at different angles. The other way to proceed is to hire an installer that has a half-dozen UHF antennas to try out. Are you wanting reception of analogs as well? All the major stations have a digital transmission now and they're all UHF.

Getting VHF also is probably a good move since the stations will ultimately have the option of keeping either frequency (VHF or UHF) once the transition is complete and the analog channel shuts down. So we could end up with some digital signals in the VHF band.

On the other hand, who knows how long that might be?

I wonder how many stations would invest in a new antenna and equipment to move back to VHF. Their only incentive would be a slightly better range and a larger potential audience. Since things have been trending towards cable for years and years I'm not sure they would invest the $$. Most people prefer cable over OTA, all things being equal. I would have never gone OTA for HD if our cable company and locals were onboard with HD three years ago. I'm one of the lucky few living on top of a ridge instead of between them. Lots of people around Seattle are just plain SOL when it comes to OTA (digital or analog).

My impression was that the existing VHF transmitters and antennas that currently broadcast the analog channels could be used for the digital channels (same carrier, different payload), and no significant investment would be required. The VHF antennas are usually placed in a better location on the tower to get the desired geographic coverage, since the UHF add-on's for digital are often lower on the tower with a blind spot because of the tower.

Of course, I could be wrong here.

Originally posted by quarque
radtek - Blue Boy or Blue Bird - it sounds like one of those tubular gimmick antennas that rely on an amplifier to make up for a lack of actual metal for signal reception. They probably work under certain circumstances. But I've been following antenna choices on AVS for 3 years now and in the 20 - 60 mile range the favorite has been the Channel Master 4228. Of the 20+ 4228 installations I know of, only two users found another antenna worked better. This usually has to do with reflections and the particular sensitivity of each antenna to off-axis signals at different angles. The other way to proceed is to hire an installer that has a half-dozen UHF antennas to try out. Are you wanting reception of analogs as well? All the major stations have a digital transmission now and they're all UHF.

radtek
The "blue boy" is a 4221 channel master. It used to have blue anodizing many years ago. There is an outfit from southern Washington installing these by that name. To comment on anothers installs would not be proper ettiquette or form. As always, though, check for references from other customers about any installs of any type.
As for 4228's being the best out in the woods at long distances, I haven't had the same good results. The 4248 or yagi type works better. I'm sure there have been people who have used them successfully. I'm also certain if they had used a 4248 it would have resulted in a better signal waveshape, as viewed on an analyzer, in almost every case. Thing is, HD receivers either lock in with a perfect picture or nothing. If you have a marginal signal level, but it locks, you would never know the difference. In the rain, or when the wind blows and moves all those tree limbs around, you may get picture breakup if it's marginal. I always have at least 3 different types of UHF antennas with me, and sometimes more if I know it's going to be a difficult job. I gave up carrying the 4228 in the truck. It never worked better than a 4221 (half of a 4228) around here. In Eastern Washington, Yakima and Sunnyside areas, it did work better, on analog UHF, over a 4221 or yagi when I was looking for gain only and wasn't worried about ghosts. If I was in trees, though, then the yagi obviously did better, which is what it's designed to do.
If you have lots of trees to the north, and that can mean as much as a half mile away in your case, then a yagi type is going to work better. If your area is open enough, then a 4228 might work. Also, a 7775 preamplifier should be used. A few channels might come in with out it, but they'll be right on the edge of reception, at that distance (with the power levels we get around here). You won't overload the tuner or preamp.

I also asked the same question about returning to VHF digital when they throw the big switch (the theoretical date in a few years when all analog transmission is "supposed to" cease). The engineers at KING and KOMO said they're not going to change back due to cost, and, that the FCC wants to auction off the vacated frequencies to make money. That's what they said. I would tend to believe the part about the stations not wanting to spend more money. And I agree with the points quarque brought up, too. It would certainly be easier, in terms of frequency, to get VHF digital reception around here. That's why they used it in hilly Seattle in the first place. It travels over hills much easier, and requires far less power for the same distance. Now imagine what all the people would say or do if all those antennas they put up suddenly required a new one, and also a bigger one! I have a lot of installs where the size of the antenna and it's aesthetic impact where just as, if not more, important than receiving a signal at all!
I don't think we're going to see a change to VHF HD here.
Dan

After much trying and even setting up a cable install, I have some signal of 5-1 for the olympics. Problem is its really blocky and pixelly. It would seem that I'm close to getting a good signal...just not there yet.

I've also had some problems with 7-1 during the day (the time I'll be watching football games soon). At night, its nearly flawless.

Any suggestions?

I've got D* with the standard Winegard GS-1000. I'm in Sammamish, and according to Quarque, I'm at 500+ feet.

There is a house that partially blocks my straight shot to Seattle. Should I risk life and limb to put the antenna up higher or try something like a squareshooter or other WAF friendly antenna. Thanks.

The "blue boy" is a 4221 channel master. It used to have blue anodizing many years ago. There is an outfit from southern Washington installing these by that name. To comment on anothers installs would not be proper ettiquette or form. As always, though, check for references from other customers about any installs of any type.

Dan,
Thanks for the detailed info. I will take this all in consideration when the time comes to do the install. I did plan on installing whatever unit I get myself. I have installed my own high def DirecTV dish and have construction skills. Or do you think having an installer do the job as they would have a verity of antennas available ?
DeWayne

Originally posted by seabay
Any suggestions?

I've got D* with the standard Winegard GS-1000. I'm in Sammamish, and according to Quarque, I'm at 500+ feet.

There is a house that partially blocks my straight shot to Seattle. Should I risk life and limb to put the antenna up higher or try something like a squareshooter or other WAF friendly antenna. Thanks.
As several of us have said: dump the GS-1000 and get a real antenna. And yes, if a house is blocking your line of sight you will have to get above it if you want consistent reception. You are not too far away so you have lots of choices including the (expensive) SquareShooter.

Seems odd that D* would use an omnidirectional piece of junk as their standard antenna. I bet it has to do with money (or perhaps stupidity).

Originally posted by quarque
As several of us have said: dump the GS-1000 and get a real antenna. And yes, if a house is blocking your line of sight you will have to get above it if you want consistent reception. You are not too far away so you have lots of choices including the (expensive) SquareShooter.

Seems odd that D* would use an omnidirectional piece of junk as their standard antenna. I bet it has to do with money (or perhaps stupidity).

Thanks for the input. I double posted accidentally when I didn't think my original post took.

As for antennas....I'll try the CM 4228 or something similar. I may also try to put my antenna up higher on my house.

As several of us have said: DOH! :D

Originally posted by radtek
The "blue boy" is a 4221 channel master. It used to have blue anodizing many years ago. There is an outfit from southern Washington installing these by that name. To comment on anothers installs would not be proper ettiquette or form. As always, though, check for references from other customers about any installs of any type.

Dan,
Thanks for the detailed info. I will take this all in consideration when the time comes to do the install. I did plan on installing whatever unit I get myself. I have installed my own high def DirecTV dish and have construction skills. Or do you think having an installer do the job as they would have a verity of antennas available ?
DeWayne

If I was coming out to do it, I would bring a 4248 antenna and 7775 preamp. Mounting hardware is what ever you think is needed. You obviously have some know how, so just get it at least 3 feet above anything it's near. Point it north, check it out, and move it around a little if you don't get all channels. Be aware moving it to different locations can make a huge difference. Patience is the key.
Call if you have questions.
Dan

I'm about to make the jump to HDTV, but since I'm a Dish Network Customer I'm going to need to get my locals OTA.

Wondering if anyone out there lives in the Martha Lake area between Lynnwood and Mill Creek and receives OTA signals. If so, suggestions on Antennas?

I've seen that people post addresses and someone can check their LOS for them? Is there somewhere I can go to do that myself?

Thanks

Originally posted by robglasser
I'm about to make the jump to HDTV, but since I'm a Dish Network Customer I'm going to need to get my locals OTA.

Wondering if anyone out there lives in the Martha Lake area between Lynnwood and Mill Creek and receives OTA signals. If so, suggestions on Antennas?

I've seen that people post addresses and someone can check their LOS for them? Is there somewhere I can go to do that myself?

Thanks
Rob - I can do a LOS plot for you if you want to post your nearest intersection or PM me your address (not a good idea to post addresses on public forums). We have several members in the Lynnwood to Mill Creek area so YES you can get OTA depending on your local terrain. And you can plot your own LOS if you want to invest in a topographic program such as those by DeLorme.

Originally posted by robglasser
I'm about to make the jump to HDTV, but since I'm a Dish Network Customer I'm going to need to get my locals OTA.

Wondering if anyone out there lives in the Martha Lake area between Lynnwood and Mill Creek and receives OTA signals. If so, suggestions on Antennas?

I've seen that people post addresses and someone can check their LOS for them? Is there somewhere I can go to do that myself?

Thanks

I had success with an attic-mounted Channel Master 4228 aimed at Seattle combined with a Winegard Square Shooter aimed at Bremerton. I'm in Mill Creek at about 400' elevation.

It's been a while, hello everyone...

BTW, my only source of reception is OTA DTV, my only time is primetime, and am growing increasingly irritated of the spectacular Olympics in HD. After five days of HD glory all I could see has been gymnastics, swimming, and some diving. And as of today, two days behind! What is NBC thinking? While I appreciate their effort to bring HD, and 5.1 audio, I would prefer a more standard programming. Perhaps they can try what ABC or KCTS did: use a second channel to broadcast the regular SD stuff.

OK, I feel better now. Let's have a drink while waiting for 2008.

Originally posted by litzdog911
I had success with an attic-mounted Channel Master 4228 aimed at Seattle combined with a Winegard Square Shooter aimed at Bremerton. I'm in Mill Creek at about 400' elevation.

Kind of new to having to use antenna's, what do you have to buy to combine the signals into a single cable? I really wish all the towers were in the same direction.

Found out from quarque (thank you), that I am at 470 feet and 16 miles from Queen Anne Towers.

Originally posted by robglasser
Kind of new to having to use antenna's, what do you have to buy to combine the signals into a single cable? I really wish all the towers were in the same direction.

Found out from quarque (thank you), that I am at 470 feet and 16 miles from Queen Anne Towers.

I bought a Channel Master Jointenna from Warren Electronics tuned to combine Channel 18. My setup is described in more detail several pages back in this thread. Some folks here have reported that the Jointenna's didn't work for them, but it works fine in my installation.

Originally posted by tuquet
It's been a while, hello everyone...

BTW, my only source of reception is OTA DTV, my only time is primetime, and am growing increasingly irritated of the spectacular Olympics in HD. After five days of HD glory all I could see has been gymnastics, swimming, and some diving. And as of today, two days behind! What is NBC thinking? While I appreciate their effort to bring HD, and 5.1 audio, I would prefer a more standard programming. Perhaps they can try what ABC or KCTS did: use a second channel to broadcast the regular SD stuff.

OK, I feel better now. Let's have a drink while waiting for 2008.
Hi tuquet - long time no see! I fully agree with you that what NBC has done is an incredible waste of technology when one thinks about what is possible. It sounds like they assume we'll all be so over-impressed with HD we'll forget what we're watching. I have already voiced my displeasure with KING5 and their total lack of program information.

Originally posted by robglasser
Kind of new to having to use antenna's, what do you have to buy to combine the signals into a single cable? I really wish all the towers were in the same direction.

Found out from quarque (thank you), that I am at 470 feet and 16 miles from Queen Anne Towers.
you may be able to get all the majors with a single antenna. Many do not have a very narrow sweet spot so you can often cover over 45 degrees of spread. I recall your location being around 30. The CM 4221 and SqS have a wider gain plot (left-right) so you may be OK with a single unit.

The other day I noticed that 4-1 was not showing any programming. I get a signal lock, but my T151 just says "No A/V."

As some of you already voiced regarding this topic, King5/NBC olympic coverage in HD sucks. Two days late and limited content looping. By the way, I got Dish Network Sat. It has an Olympic HD channel, but exactly the same as King5/NBC. I can however get some SD stuffs that's different in Bravo, MSNBC, CNBC. This is totally unacceptable! I am mad but have nowhere to turn.:mad:

Originally posted by howcome
As some of you already voiced regarding this topic, King5/NBC olympic coverage in HD sucks. Two days late and limited content looping. By the way, I got Dish Network Sat. It has an Olympic HD channel, but exactly the same as King5/NBC. I can however get some SD stuffs that's different in Bravo, MSNBC, CNBC. This is totally unacceptable! I am mad but have nowhere to turn.:mad:

Voice your complaints to NBC. It was their decision to delay the HiDef broadcasts relative to their standard broadcasts, most likely to protect ratings and advertiser revenues. There's probably nothing that will change this decision for this year's Olympics.

Originally posted by horseflesh
The other day I noticed that 4-1 was not showing any programming. I get a signal lock, but my T151 just says "No A/V."

Are you still having this problem? If so, have you tried rescanning your channels? What signal readings do you see in the setup menu?

Originally posted by litzdog911
Voice your complaints to NBC. It was their decision to delay the HiDef broadcasts relative to their standard broadcasts, most likely to protect ratings and advertiser revenues. There's probably nothing that will change this decision for this year's Olympics.

I have a Toshiba 51HX83 w/ DishNetwork Sat. 811 and OTA. Was looking forward to the Olympics in HD. Even seriously think of a Sharp 30" LCD for the bedroom. After this crap, Not anytime soon!:mad:
As you mentioned, nothing I can do to NBC now, but someone has to pay!:mad:

I noticed for the first time during tonight's football game that CBS - KIRO is now broadcasting in Dolby Digital. Is this new or have I been asleep at the wheel?
Tom

I live at the corner of Western and Bay St. in Belltown. It is a condo and I live on the first floor - there are several floors above me.

I bought the radio shack antenna and am able to catch about 4 channels - I don't seem to catch fox and a few others.

What can I expect to catch and what are some good tips for me to try? Is there a way to catch all the channels without having to turn the antenna every time?

thanks!
Niharika

Originally posted by niharika
I live at the corner of Western and Bay St. in Belltown. It is a condo and I live on the first floor - there are several floors above me.

I bought the radio shack antenna and am able to catch about 4 channels - I don't seem to catch fox and a few others.

What can I expect to catch and what are some good tips for me to try? Is there a way to catch all the channels without having to turn the antenna every time?

thanks!
Niharika
Unfortunately they didn't design DT systems to work like cell phones so in a downtown area like that you are lucky(!) to get anything at all on a first floor. You need to have a direct line-of-sight path to get reliable reception. So the first question is when you look out your window(s) what towers can you "see"? Bremerton (due West - 13) maybe a tad difficult to see unless you have the eyes of a bald eagle but imagine where it would be. The other tower clusters are on Queen Anne hill (due North - 4,5,7,16) and Capitol Hill (due East - 9,11,22). It is highly unlikely unless your living room has wrap-around windows on W+N+E sides you would be able to see all 3 major locations. Even in the penthouse you would still need multiple antennas or a rotor to change direction.

Have you talked to the building management about OTA antennas on the roof? Have you considered HD cable?

Originally posted by TAB
I noticed for the first time during tonight's football game that CBS - KIRO is now broadcasting in Dolby Digital. Is this new or have I been asleep at the wheel?
Tom
Only KIRO has been asleep...
You are fine.

Originally posted by litzdog911
Voice your complaints to NBC. It was their decision to delay the HiDef broadcasts relative to their standard broadcasts, most likely to protect ratings and advertiser revenues. There's probably nothing that will change this decision for this year's Olympics.
It's pretty obvious that (1) they had very few advertisers for the HD broadacast and (2) they consider HD to be "experimental" with a very small audience (1%) anyway so why bother. I don't see how a delayed HD broadcast protects anything. I think it was a low priority and *much* easier & cheaper to put together an HD loop tape rather than trying to do both SD and HD at the same time. If you saw the shots of the NBC control room in Athens you would have noticed very few HD screens - I only saw one. They obviously had much less HD equipment than SD at the games and they had to spread it around. Hence the coverage of only 3 sports or so per 8-hour loop. If they had spent the $$$ for all HD cameras everywhere then we would have had simultaneous SD and HD broadcasts. That would have cost an extra $20-30 million plus all the HD monitors etc. etc. = $50 million? Then what do they do with all this HD stuff when they are done? So you're thinking "we'll borrow it from the US stations and give it back later"? They either couldn't or wouldn't spend the money - period.

I live just about 2 miles SE of the KCPQ(13) tower located on Gold Mountain over here near Bremerton. I haven't yet purchased an OTA antenna, but curious which would give me the best chance of receiving the Seattle HD channels. Also, could anyone give me a clue as to the reception I can expect to receive? Antennaweb results weren't very promising. My nearest cross street is W Belfair Valley Rd. & W McKenna Falls Rd. The physical address is 9140 W Belfair Valley Rd. Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.

Hi, Guys:
I got Dish 811 and OTA through the same box. For some reason, I got really warm (red) flesh tone from OTA HD sitcoms. Football seems fine (or maybe I don't know what it should look like). I use the same setting for Dish HD reception and never observe that problem w/ HDnet etc. Come to think of it, HDmovie might have the same problem to a much lesser degree. Is it the source? or my 811 HD tuner has color decoding probem?
Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by howcome
Hi, Guys:
I got Dish 811 and OTA through the same box. For some reason, I got really warm (red) flesh tone from OTA HD sitcoms. Football seems fine (or maybe I don't know what it should look like). I use the same setting for Dish HD reception and never observe that problem w/ HDnet etc. Come to think of it, HDmovie might have the same problem to a much lesser degree. Is it the source? or my 811 HD tuner has color decoding probem?
Thanks in advance.
this really belongs over in the Hardware forum. Ken?

Originally posted by Baldone01
I live just about 2 miles SE of the KCPQ(13) tower located on Gold Mountain over here near Bremerton. I haven't yet purchased an OTA antenna, but curious which would give me the best chance of receiving the Seattle HD channels. Also, could anyone give me a clue as to the reception I can expect to receive? Antennaweb results weren't very promising. My nearest cross street is W Belfair Valley Rd. & W McKenna Falls Rd. The physical address is 9140 W Belfair Valley Rd. Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.
You are behind the shoulder of a large ridge to the ENE that is blocking your line of sight to the Seattle towers. I'm afraid you are SOL except for CH 13 and some minor channels in Tacoma. You would need a 150 foot tower to get Seattle.

I guess my only other option is to get cable then since per D* I get grade A signals for all the big 4 networks? D* has requested a waiver for CBS--not holding my breath however. Not sure if wavecable (My cable option) even offers HD for my locals. Oh well-thanks again for the info.

Originally posted by Baldone01
I guess my only other option is to get cable then since per D* I get grade A signals for all the big 4 networks? D* has requested a waiver for CBS--not holding my breath however. Not sure if wavecable (My cable option) even offers HD for my locals. Oh well-thanks again for the info.
Obviously D* doesn't do a topo profile - they just look at your address on a FLAT map and say "yup, he's got OTA". Your other (dicey) option is to try to get a reflected signal. If you have a very large building or something to the southeast it might work. I would certainly only try this with borrowed equipment since the degree of difficulty is 10.0 and the judges are scoring very low... Olympically speaking. DT is really the pits for a lot of people, still.

Unfortunately, I live in a very rural area--only a few houses within earshot/sight, & no large buildings at all within about 6-8 miles. Thanks again for your help though-I really appreciate it. I'd dump D* altogether, except that I don't know if I could function w/o my d*tivo.

This may be off-topic, but I know there are antenna experts here and I've asked without answer in other forums.

I'm looking at office space on the first floor of a 4 story building, and I want to mount a dish and an antenna on the roof. The landlord doesn't want to run coax on the outside of the building, and it's not feasible to do it any other way.

However, there is CAT5E wire installed and available. Is it possible to convert coax satellite and antenna signals to CAT5 and then back to coax?

I found a few devices around the net:

http://www.smarthome.com/7805T.html
http://www.starkelectronic.com/vid-utp.htm
http://www.infinity-cable.com/icp_balun_catv.htm

Does anyone have any experience with something like this? The run would be about 200'.

Originally posted by Steve Schauer
This may be off-topic, but I know there are antenna experts here and I've asked without answer in other forums.

I'm looking at office space on the first floor of a 4 story building, and I want to mount a dish and an antenna on the roof. The landlord doesn't want to run coax on the outside of the building, and it's not feasible to do it any other way.

However, there is CAT5E wire installed and available. Is it possible to convert coax satellite and antenna signals to CAT5 and then back to coax?

I found a few devices around the net:

http://www.smarthome.com/7805T.html
http://www.starkelectronic.com/vid-utp.htm
http://www.infinity-cable.com/icp_balun_catv.htm

Does anyone have any experience with something like this? The run would be about 200'.

We do this in the AV industry all the time with video. I'm not sure about RF.
For sending hi-rez video down CAT5, I see a lot of companies use devices made by Extron. I'm curious to see if you figure this out.

Thanks for the reply. I got a little more info, and apparently none of these devices can handle the 2GHz satellite signal, so I'm SOL I guess unless I can figure out a way to hide the cable enough to satisfy the landlord. :(

If you can do video over CAT5 then you should be able to do component or DVI etc. Put your receiver on the roof and send ITS output down the CAT5. Of course you'd have to rig up a way to get the commands from your remote up to it, but that should be easy. Right?

Why can't I get KOMO TV?

I can get KTWB, WSTW, KONG, KING, KCTS and KIRO but not KOMO. according to Antennaweb it is on the same axis and distance (within .25miles) of KIRO but on everything else I am in the 70's or 80's and on KOMO I am flatlined.

I am using a Channel Master 4228 with a DirecTV HR10-250. I am in West Ballard. (6014 Seaview Ave NW)

Any assistance is appreciated

Originally posted by monsttr
Why can't I get KOMO TV?

I can get KTWB, WSTW, KONG, KING, KCTS and KIRO but not KOMO. according to Antennaweb it is on the same axis and distance (within .25miles) of KIRO but on everything else I am in the 70's or 80's and on KOMO I am flatlined.

I am using a Channel Master 4228 with a DirecTV HR10-250. I am in West Ballard. (6014 Seaview Ave NW)

Any assistance is appreciated
This is not uncommon. Due to the myriad of things that affect DT reception you can have neighbors with totally different results. You problem is probably a strong reflection on KOMO. Receivers do not like reflections (aka ghosting or multipath).

Being fairly close to the towers may actually be hurting your situaton. The two simple things to try are 1) a variable attenuator like the $8.99 one at Radio Shack and 2) moving your antenna. A change of 1 foot can sometimes have a dramatic effect. The 4228 has pretty high gain and may be overkill for your location. I'd try the attenuator first.

Originally posted by monsttr
Why can't I get KOMO TV?

I can get KTWB, WSTW, KONG, KING, KCTS and KIRO but not KOMO. according to Antennaweb it is on the same axis and distance (within .25miles) of KIRO but on everything else I am in the 70's or 80's and on KOMO I am flatlined.

I am using a Channel Master 4228 with a DirecTV HR10-250. I am in West Ballard. (6014 Seaview Ave NW)

Any assistance is appreciated

Also, what brand/model receiver are you using? My first thought is that you might be overloading the tuner on your receiver with such a high gain antenna when you're so close to the transmitter.

Originally posted by monsttr
Why can't I get KOMO TV?

I can get KTWB, WSTW, KONG, KING, KCTS and KIRO but not KOMO. according to Antennaweb it is on the same axis and distance (within .25miles) of KIRO but on everything else I am in the 70's or 80's and on KOMO I am flatlined.

I am using a Channel Master 4228 with a DirecTV HR10-250. I am in West Ballard. (6014 Seaview Ave NW)

Any assistance is appreciated

You are probably another victim of the dreaded KOMO DTV "shadow" caused by the placement of their DTV antenna on the tower. When I was working with Don in the KOMO engineering dept as to why I can't get KOMO over in Indianola, he said the signal has a deep null that falls right across Shilshoe towards the NW from the transmitter.

Originally posted by litzdog911
Voice your complaints to NBC. It was their decision to delay the HiDef broadcasts relative to their standard broadcasts, most likely to protect ratings and advertiser revenues. There's probably nothing that will change this decision for this year's Olympics.

Now it's over, and I missed it. :o

Hi,
how can I find out what games is Fox showing in Seattle on Sep 12th?

Rajesh

titantv.com

Seahawks Saints
Falcons 49ers

Originally posted by quarque
you may be able to get all the majors with a single antenna. Many do not have a very narrow sweet spot so you can often cover over 45 degrees of spread. I recall your location being around 30. The CM 4221 and SqS have a wider gain plot (left-right) so you may be OK with a single unit.

Been playing with a couple of different antennas in the trusses of my garage and here is what I've found:

I've got an old $40.00 Antenna, fairly large, directional, but cheap, that I bought about 6 years ago at Eagle (Lowes). With this antenna I can get an ok signal with every station except Channel 11, I do get occasional dropout, mainly on Channel 4. Yesterday with the heavy clouds and showers I had a lot of drop outs though and on most channels.

I also went and picked up a Radio Shack "High Definition Amplified Outdoor TV Antenna" Catalog # 15-2185 (See link below). With this antenna in the trusses, and the amplifier plugged in I got great reception, even with it cloudy, however the antenna was too directional. I got it so I could pretty much get everything but Channel 13 really well, but when I rotated slightly for Channel 13 I'd lose a solid signal on Channel 4.

I'd really like to keep everything to one antenna if possible and keep it in the trusses of my garage. Based on the reception I'm getting with the 2 antennas above I'm wondering what everyone things my best bet is for an antenna. To get the best deal I'll probably have to order online, which makes returns difficult so I want to get it right the first time.

Something I've read good things about that I'm thinking of trying is DB4 High Gain Multi Directional from Antennas Direct. Anyone have experience with that antenna?

If something like this isn't going to work in my garage trusses/attic, then I want to get something more aesthetic for the roof, which I guess would be the squareshooter?



http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2185

Originally posted by robglasser
Been playing with a couple of different antennas in the trusses of my garage and here is what I've found:

I've got an old $40.00 Antenna, fairly large, directional, but cheap, that I bought about 6 years ago at Eagle (Lowes). With this antenna I can get an ok signal with every station except Channel 11, I do get occasional dropout, mainly on Channel 4. Yesterday with the heavy clouds and showers I had a lot of drop outs though and on most channels.

I also went and picked up a Radio Shack "High Definition Amplified Outdoor TV Antenna" Catalog # 15-2185 (See link below). With this antenna in the trusses, and the amplifier plugged in I got great reception, even with it cloudy, however the antenna was too directional. I got it so I could pretty much get everything but Channel 13 really well, but when I rotated slightly for Channel 13 I'd lose a solid signal on Channel 4.

I'd really like to keep everything to one antenna if possible and keep it in the trusses of my garage. Based on the reception I'm getting with the 2 antennas above I'm wondering what everyone things my best bet is for an antenna. To get the best deal I'll probably have to order online, which makes returns difficult so I want to get it right the first time.

Something I've read good things about that I'm thinking of trying is DB4 High Gain Multi Directional from Antennas Direct. Anyone have experience with that antenna?

If something like this isn't going to work in my garage trusses/attic, then I want to get something more aesthetic for the roof, which I guess would be the squareshooter?



http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2185

Rob, It looks like you're trying to use VHF/UHF antennas when you only really need a UHF antenna for our DTV channels. You might want to try something like Radio Shack's UHF outdoor antenna .... it's small, not overly directional, and optimized for UHF channels

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2160

People here have also had good luck with the Channel Master CM4221 or CM4228 which don't take up much room, offer high gain, and are seem to work well in the Seattle area. I also had good luck with the Winegard SquareShooter.

Is there a place locally, preferably North of Seattle, or East Side, that sells these channel master antennas?

Frye's, although they're not located with the rest of the antenna's. In the renton store you take a right when you walk into the store and they're right in front of out.

Originally posted by litzdog911
Rob, It looks like you're trying to use VHF/UHF antennas when you only really need a UHF antenna for our DTV channels. You might want to try something like Radio Shack's UHF outdoor antenna .... it's small, not overly directional, and optimized for UHF channels

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2160

People here have also had good luck with the Channel Master CM4221 or CM4228 which don't take up much room, offer high gain, and are seem to work well in the Seattle area. I also had good luck with the Winegard SquareShooter.

Ok, I made the trek to Fry's today (first time there, pretty damn cool) and got a CM4228. I've got it at the top of my attic, and I can get 4,5,7,9, and 22 solid. 13 is pretty good, and 11 and 16 are weak and drop out if I can even tune them at all.

My wife would shoot me if I put this on our roof. I don't know alot about antennas, can I amplify this antenna? If not, I'm guessing my best bet is the amplified Square Shooter on the roof? Does it pick up as wide an area as the 4228?

Thanks

Originally posted by robglasser
Ok, I made the trek to Fry's today (first time there, pretty damn cool) and got a CM4228. I've got it at the top of my attic, and I can get 4,5,7,9, and 22 solid. 13 is pretty good, and 11 and 16 are weak and drop out if I can even tune them at all.

My wife would shoot me if I put this on our roof. I don't know alot about antennas, can I amplify this antenna? If not, I'm guessing my best bet is the amplified Square Shooter on the roof? Does it pick up as wide an area as the 4228?

Thanks


I'm using a CM7777 ( I think) preamp with my 4228 with good results.

Originally posted by robglasser
Ok, I made the trek to Fry's today (first time there, pretty damn cool) and got a CM4228. I've got it at the top of my attic, and I can get 4,5,7,9, and 22 solid. 13 is pretty good, and 11 and 16 are weak and drop out if I can even tune them at all.

My wife would shoot me if I put this on our roof. I don't know alot about antennas, can I amplify this antenna? If not, I'm guessing my best bet is the amplified Square Shooter on the roof? Does it pick up as wide an area as the 4228?

Thanks

Rob, it would also help to know what brand/model HDTV receiver you're using, and how close you are to the Seattle towers. Some receivers have issues with signals that are too STRONG, and multipath caused by our hills and trees can make reception hit or miss, too. I'm in Mill Creek and get good signal on all the Seattle (except KSTW which is at very low power), and on KCPQ-DT from Bremerton using a Winegard SquareShooter (unamplified). Bottom line is that it's pretty much trial & error here. Moving your antenna even a couple of feet can make a big difference in some cases, and outdoor mounting will almost always work better than attic mounting.

Originally posted by litzdog911
Rob, it would also help to know what brand/model HDTV receiver you're using, and how close you are to the Seattle towers. Some receivers have issues with signals that are too STRONG, and multipath caused by our hills and trees can make reception hit or miss, too. I'm in Mill Creek and get good signal on all the Seattle (except KSTW which is at very low power), and on KCPQ-DT from Bremerton using a Winegard SquareShooter (unamplified). Bottom line is that it's pretty much trial & error here. Moving your antenna even a couple of feet can make a big difference in some cases, and outdoor mounting will almost always work better than attic mounting.

Here is the info I got a couple weeks back:
Found out from quarque (thank you), that I am at 470 feet and 16 miles from Queen Anne Towers.

As for receiver I am currently using a LG 3510A that I picked up at Best Buy. This is only short term, I will eventually move to either a Dish or Direct TV HD PVR receiver.

I'm thinking that my best bet all around would be to get a squareshooter and put it outdoors.

Also, near Mill Creek, actually a couple blocks from Martha Lake.

Sometime back in this thread I asked about my chances of receiving OTA signals from the Seattle stations (KOMO,KING,KIRO, etc.), Quarque responded that I would need a 150' tower in order to do so. My property is approx. 800' wide running NW by SE. Does anyone know if installing an OTA antenna on one end or the other might improve my chances of decent reception? Thanks again.

Originally posted by howcome
Now it's over, and I missed it. :o Hello Larry and all. I gave up Athens, now am on to Flushing Meadow. I have not been watching much TV during the summer and was quite happy not long ago finding out that most went 5.1, and FOX HD. Too lazy to check what format but I assume 720p. What is the deal with KONG showing pre-season Hawks in 4:3? I hope that is going to change.

Originally posted by robglasser
Here is the info I got a couple weeks back:
Found out from quarque (thank you), that I am at 470 feet and 16 miles from Queen Anne Towers.

As for receiver I am currently using a LG 3510A that I picked up at Best Buy. This is only short term, I will eventually move to either a Dish or Direct TV HD PVR receiver.

I'm thinking that my best bet all around would be to get a squareshooter and put it outdoors.

Also, near Mill Creek, actually a couple blocks from Martha Lake.

Give the SquareShooter a try. It looks good outdoors. Your not that far from me, so it'll probably work fine for you. I just aimed mine between the Seattle and Bremerton towers.

Originally posted by tuquet
...What is the deal with KONG showing pre-season Hawks in 4:3? I hope that is going to change.

KONG will not carry any regular season games. FOX will carry all but the Monday night (Dec 6) game (ABC) vs the Cowboys. Unless blackouts come into play.

Tom

Thanks, Tom. That's more like it.

Originally posted by Baldone01
Sometime back in this thread I asked about my chances of receiving OTA signals from the Seattle stations (KOMO,KING,KIRO, etc.), Quarque responded that I would need a 150' tower in order to do so. My property is approx. 800' wide running NW by SE. Does anyone know if installing an OTA antenna on one end or the other might improve my chances of decent reception? Thanks again.
Wow, 800 feet is a might big lot (er, farm?). Forget HD and get some horses! :D

Seriously though, you might have a better chance towards the SE corner. If you can give me exact GPS coordinates of that corner I can do another plot to see how much lower your tower gets because the hill falls off in that direction. Is your house closer to the NW or SE?

Unfortunately, at this time, I don't have any way to measure the GPS coordinates, but on the positive side, my house is on the SE end of the property-about 125' from the SE end & approx. 650' from the NW end. Thanks again for your help.

Originally posted by tuquet
Hello Larry and all. I gave up Athens, now am on to Flushing Meadow. I have not been watching much TV during the summer and was quite happy not long ago finding out that most went 5.1, and FOX HD. Too lazy to check what format but I assume 720p. What is the deal with KONG showing pre-season Hawks in 4:3? I hope that is going to change.
I ended up watching very little HD olympic coverage but some SD coverage. I thought the whole HD package was pathetic. From what I read on the net, so do a lot of other people in articles like Wired Magazine etc. They pretty much thought the same thing I voiced 2 weeks ago: NBC did not want to spend the money on full HD coverage and decided that the 1% audience watching in HD was not worth the investment. So they used their stable of HD cams that were not in use elsewhere and recorded everything to be pasted together later by some editors in some teeny weeny trailer. I guess we (HD) people are just too few in numbers to matter at this point. Several articles postulated NBC's position as: "they'll be so happy with HD they won't care what they are watching..." Perhaps 2008 will be different.

Too bad KONG doesn't have the $$ for HD - I've never seen them broadcast anything in HD. I really wish ABC would show their college games in HD like CBS does (eventually).

Originally posted by Baldone01
Unfortunately, at this time, I don't have any way to measure the GPS coordinates, but on the positive side, my house is on the SE end of the property-about 125' from the SE end & approx. 650' from the NW end. Thanks again for your help.
OK, could you give me distance and direction from W Belfair Valley Rd. & W McKenna Falls Rd. intersection? I used your address but most mapping programs/databases are very bad at correct locations in rural areas. I've seen them be off by 1/4 mile or more.

I just ran a test plot from a point 700 feet due south of that intersection and things improve dramatically. You might get by with a short mast on a 2-story house (30 feet total height). So, the key word is location, location, location.

As best I can tell, my latitude is 47.524660 & longitude is -122.769438. I live in a 2 story home with the peak of my roof at about 35 feet. I also have an approx. 80' tree just SE of my house (not sure how I would be able to get the top, but...). I appreciate all your help.

You may not need anything exotic to pick up the Seattle stuff from Bremerton. I have a Rat Shack UHF antenna (from a garage sale) under my deck in Bellevue and I pick up the DTV broadcast from Ch-13/22 and their antenna is on the moutain behind Bremerton. A Silver Sensor is cheap enough (~$30) to try before you go further.
Jim

Originally posted by Baldone01
As best I can tell, my latitude is 47.524660 & longitude is -122.769438. I live in a 2 story home with the peak of my roof at about 35 feet. I also have an approx. 80' tree just SE of my house (not sure how I would be able to get the top, but...). I appreciate all your help.
That puts you 300 feet SW of the Belfair/McKenna intersection if those values are accurate. That is not good. You are still behind the large ridge off to the ENE. You would need to go about 600 feet further south to get around that ridge. Sorry. :(

Originally posted by Jim Sanchez
You may not need anything exotic to pick up the Seattle stuff from Bremerton. I have a Rat Shack UHF antenna (from a garage sale) under my deck in Bellevue and I pick up the DTV broadcast from Ch-13/22 and their antenna is on the moutain behind Bremerton. A Silver Sensor is cheap enough (~$30) to try before you go further.
Jim
This is true IF you have direct line-of-sight to the towers (UHF requires line-of-sight to be reliable). Baldone01 does not have a straight shot at the transmitters in Seattle. He is blocked by a large ridge between his house and Seattle.

A neophyte here…..

I’m thinking of getting into HDTV if I can receive reliable OTA
reception at my very central Seattle location. I’m so close to the many transmitters…..I’m wondering of I’m too close. I think I have a clear shot to many towers (I’m located on the north end of Lake Union where Eastern
Ave N meets the lake)……….but will I need multiple small antennas because the line of sight to the various towers seem quite different? Tnx.

Originally posted by elortho
A neophyte here…..

I’m thinking of getting into HDTV if I can receive reliable OTA
reception at my very central Seattle location. I’m so close to the many transmitters…..I’m wondering of I’m too close. I think I have a clear shot to many towers (I’m located on the north end of Lake Union where Eastern
Ave N meets the lake)……….but will I need multiple small antennas because the line of sight to the various towers seem quite different? Tnx.
Being so close can be more of a curse than a blessing. Since the tower clusters are nearly 180 degrees apart it will be *extremely* difficult to get everything with a single antenna and a single orientation. Before investing in a lot of expensive equipment, see if you can borrow an indoor antenna and receiver from someone to test your location. You would most likely need a rotor or a pair of antennas and a combiner. You will want to angle your antenna(s) upward at about 35 degrees. You will be able to pick up CH 13 in Bremerton along with 4,5,7 with a westward orientation. 9,11,22 will be southeast. Signal reflections may be horrific so expect to do a lot of trial and error. You might want to consider going cable HD since they have most of the locals in HD now plus ESPN-HD and 2 INHD channels.

Originally posted by quarque
Being so close can be more of a curse than a blessing. Since the tower clusters are nearly 180 degrees apart it will be *extremely* difficult to get everything with a single antenna and a single orientation. Before investing in a lot of expensive equipment, see if you can borrow an indoor antenna and receiver from someone to test your location. You would most likely need a rotor or a pair of antennas and a combiner. You will want to angle your antenna(s) upward at about 35 degrees. You will be able to pick up CH 13 in Bremerton along with 4,5,7 with a westward orientation. 9,11,22 will be southeast. Signal reflections may be horrific so expect to do a lot of trial and error. You might want to consider going cable HD since they have most of the locals in HD now plus ESPN-HD and 2 INHD channels.

quarque
I don't think you have his location quite correct. I think he means on the N(orth end of the lake west of Ivars (not off Eastlake).
You're not that far apart from the two basic food groups. Queen Anne (4-5-7-16) and 13 (Bremerton) are basically SW from you, with 13 going over QA hill, and 9-11-22 are just a little east of due south, on Capitol Hill. I use a Channel Master 4221 over there as a first choice. It has a very wide reception path, and is not fussy about needing to be tilted up. Point it due south to start and see what you get. 13 is going to be the tough one. You will probably need to attenuate the signal, it will be quite strong. Get an adjustable attenuator from RatShack, and start with it set to max and then dial it back to about mid point until you don't get break up in picture.


On a separate issue, finally got around to testing the ch13 filter/combiner (ch18 frequency) under actual battle conditions. The bandpass part worked great, over 40db rejection, but the notch part was not. It's basically two filters put together, one on each antenna lead and then combined with a splitter. I think they gave me a wrong notch type. They're building another for me, update you when it arrives. The total cost will be around $125. Cheap for quality, deep and narrow filters in the UHF band.

Dan

Quarque
I think my coordinates were a little off. I'm actually about 900-1000 ft. SW of the McKenna Falls intersection. Does this make OTA reception somewhat feasable, or not? Per the 2150.com site, I need to aim at about 82 degrees. Is that about right? Thanks again, & sorry to be such a pain in the a**.

Originally posted by DanKurts
quarque
I don't think you have his location quite correct. I think he means on the N(orth end of the lake west of Ivars (not off Eastlake).
Dan
my bad - I was thinking south end of the lake. So it's only about 70 degrees which is possible with some antennas.

Originally posted by Baldone01
Quarque
I think my coordinates were a little off. I'm actually about 900-1000 ft. SW of the McKenna Falls intersection. Does this make OTA reception somewhat feasable, or not? Per the 2150.com site, I need to aim at about 82 degrees. Is that about right? Thanks again, & sorry to be such a pain in the a**.
Sorry, but SW is still along the line of that ridge. You need to be on the other side of Belfair about 1000 feet to get around the ridge. Bearing is 69 deg True (51 deg Magnetic) to Queen Anne Hill. If you can borrow equipment it is still worth a try. There are refractive effects from hills and you might get lucky.

Thanks very much for the feedback Dan & Larry. I now have an opportunity to look at Comcast's offering but will next try out your much more cost effective and appealing suggestions. Great forum and you two make it especially helpful. Thanks again. Gordon

BTW, I just have to drop a good word for Dan, if you're looking for expert help on antenna installs. He came out and did some superb work at my house last month. My OTA channels look as good as the D* stuff.

I thought OTA stuff looks better than the like of D* or E*, especially with upres SD. OK, it's early morning Friday...

I've got a wierd problem.

I'm using a HD10-250 (DirectTV HD Tivo) and I'm trying to get my OTA via a nice roof mounted antenna. (just your generic VHF/UHF dealie)

I get signal strength of 80-90 on all channels (including KONG) EXCEPT KING-5 which I get 15-20 strength

Does anyone have any idea why only KING-5 would have a weak signal?

My location is 156th and 20th in Bellevue (basically on top of the hill near MS)

I'm going nuts getting everything except NBC.

Thanks for any help.

Coldie

Hi, closest intersection for me is Eastlake and Boston. 2036 Franklin Ave. E. On the base of Cap Hill. I have clear shots of QA and get 4,5,7 perfect. If QA is in the middle of me and Brem am I SOL for 13? Any way to get around this?

THanks

Originally posted by coldie
I've got a wierd problem.

I'm using a HD10-250 (DirectTV HD Tivo) and I'm trying to get my OTA via a nice roof mounted antenna. (just your generic VHF/UHF dealie)

I get signal strength of 80-90 on all channels (including KONG) EXCEPT KING-5 which I get 15-20 strength

Does anyone have any idea why only KING-5 would have a weak signal?

My location is 156th and 20th in Bellevue (basically on top of the hill near MS)

I'm going nuts getting everything except NBC.

Thanks for any help.

Coldie

Coldie, Glad you found the forum and thread here. If you review this entire thread you'll quickly learn that over-the-air digital TV reception is quite a challenge here. One of the biggest problems you'll encounter is multipath (multiple reflections) that can really mess up digital TV tuners. The HR10-250 OTA DTV tuners are especially sensitive to multipath. The "signal meter" on the HR10-250 does not actually indicated signal strength, it's more of a signal quality measure.

The HR10-250 tuners are also easily overloaded, so the first thing to try is an adjustable signal attenuator. You can get one at Radio Shack. Insert it in your TV cable before the HR10-250, and adjust to reduce the signal level to see if anything changes with KING-DT.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D678


If that doesn't help, the next step is try reaiming the antenna. Even slight adjustments can make a big difference. I suppose it's not on a rotator, huh?

Originally posted by litzdog911
Coldie, Glad you found the forum and thread here. If you review this entire thread you'll quickly learn that over-the-air digital TV reception is quite a challenge here. One of the biggest problems you'll encounter is multipath (multiple reflections) that can really mess up digital TV tuners. The HR10-250 OTA DTV tuners are especially sensitive to multipath. The "signal meter" on the HR10-250 does not actually indicated signal strength, it's more of a signal quality measure.

The HR10-250 tuners are also easily overloaded, so the first thing to try is an adjustable signal attenuator. You can get one at Radio Shack. Insert it in your TV cable before the HR10-250, and adjust to reduce the signal level to see if anything changes with KING-DT.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D678


If that doesn't help, the next step is try reaiming the antenna. Even slight adjustments can make a big difference. I suppose it's not on a rotator, huh?


I've tried reaiming the antenna and it didn't seem to help. I'll try the attenuator and see waht happens...

I find it bizzare that KONG comes in and KING doesn't. That implies something about that exact frequency/transmitter that is causing me trouble.

Free beer and movies at my place if someone figures it out =)

Free beer?!?! I'm there dude! But serisously, we have seen this phenomenom quite often. The other thing to try is relocating your antenna (up/down/left/right) even a foot or two can make a difference.

Originally posted by rastamonsta
Hi, closest intersection for me is Eastlake and Boston. 2036 Franklin Ave. E. On the base of Cap Hill. I have clear shots of QA and get 4,5,7 perfect. If QA is in the middle of me and Brem am I SOL for 13? Any way to get around this?

THanks
I plotted your path to Bremerton and surprisingly the signal should just graze the top of QA hill. So you have a chance at getting 13. The key will be to get your antenna up as high as feasible.

Originally posted by coldie
I've tried reaiming the antenna and it didn't seem to help. I'll try the attenuator and see waht happens...

I find it bizzare that KONG comes in and KING doesn't. That implies something about that exact frequency/transmitter that is causing me trouble.

Free beer and movies at my place if someone figures it out =)

I'm in Duvall and use the same tuner. I get everything @ 80..90 (signal to noise) except for King, which I've mangaged to dial in at 55..60. As long as it's above 50, you're good to go. With my rig, moving the antenna 1/2" makes a big difference.
I've done work for King 5 in their boardroom and they couldn't give me a clean cable feed for their own AV system. I work with a guy that had to talk them into using HD in their boardroom and then had trouble getting a feed. I'm fairly new to the whole HD thing, but I think that they just don't get it....pity, really.

Originally posted by LLToolbox
... I've done work for King 5 in their boardroom and they couldn't give me a clean cable feed for their own AV system.
Just curious, were you tempted to ever sit at the head of the big table and say "YOU'RE FIRED!"???? :D

Originally posted by quarque
Just curious, were you tempted to ever sit at the head of the big table and say "YOU'RE FIRED!"???? :D

This was before I got into HD, so I didn't have a mad-on for them yet.

Maybe I should go back and represent !

Yes! And see what you can do over at KIRO about this whole Comcast carriage thingy...

Hey Dan, I'm located in Bellevue, 1 block south of i-90, east of Factoria Square, but west of Eastgate. However, I'm surrounded by trees. Do trees affect HDTV signals?

Also I'm on dish network, and would like to go with HDTV and the ability to record local HDTV, is there an option for me?

Rondo1
Sure, trees can be a problem, but you're also in a very hot area for signal, so you just need to find the sweet spot and thread the needle through them.
Sounds like we need to do a survey for antenna and satellite and see what can be done. Call me anytime 206-794-3993.
Dan

Coldie
It's not wierd that you have problems with KING. It's a different frequency (575mhz vs 677mhz) and different transmitting patterrn. Here's a picture of what that pattern (polar plot) looks like viewed from over the tower looking down. Notice that North & South gets all the power, while East & West gets only about 30%.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=18954&rotate=0.00&p0=1.000&p10=0.978&p20=0.915&p30=0.820&p40=0.709&p50=0.597&p60=0.501&p70=0.432&p80=0.393&p90=0.381&p100=0.393&p110=0.432&p120=0.501&p130=0.597&p140=0.709&p150=0.820&p160=0.915&p170=0.978&p180=1.000&p190=0.978&p200=0.915&p210=0.820&p220=0.709&p230=0.597&p240=0.501&p250=0.432&p260=0.393&p270=0.381&p280=0.393&p290=0.432&p300=0.501&p310=0.597&p320=0.709&p330=0.820&p340=0.915&p350=0.978&p360=1.000&

It's not really 30% of power, there are power conversion factors, serious math calc's, blah-blah, but the idea remains. Those of you on the Eastside get lower power. I asked the engineers at King why and their answer was that's what the FCC gave them. Seems odd to me, but not having gone through the licensing process, who knows.
Now look at KONG's plot

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=43056&rotate=20.00&p0=0.743&p10=0.868&p20=0.961&p30=1.000&p40=0.971&p50=0.910&p60=0.847&p70=0.795&p80=0.763&p90=0.761&p100=0.778&p110=0.781&p120=0.776&p130=0.761&p140=0.756&p150=0.795&p160=0.855&p170=0.919&p180=0.970&p190=1.000&p200=0.964&p210=0.881&p220=0.768&p230=0.638&p240=0.508&p250=0.399&p260=0.359&p270=0.381&p280=0.424&p290=0.441&p300=0.429&p310=0.389&p320=0.362&p330=0.391&p340=0.479&p350=0.605&p360=0.743&

Notice they have the majority of the signal going East! And what makes it even more interesting is KONG is running on backup power, not the full 700kw they're authorized to use !!

This points out the problem that so many people have with antennas and installs. When you get it right, the signal locks on and you see a reading on your device that says 60 or 70 percent and it all gets equated to goodness. What I see with my meter is a waveshape that could be strong and flat, as it should be, or all over the map, like a roller coaster, but might within the limits of the particular receiver, so it still locks on. You really can't see what's going on with the actual signal. Moving the antenna 6" in any direction can make huge differences, in "wierd" locations, or using a different style of antenna, which will help the shortfall of signal at that frequency, will get your KING channel working.

Most likely, Coldie, your antenna is just not suited for the trees there. Signal is fairly strong, but I found that the yagi types worked better at pulling in KING's signal there.
Run over to RatShack on 148th and 24th and grab their UHF yagi 15-2162, I think that's the model, the one about 6ft long. Try that, and if it doesn't work, then you can take it back and call me and we'll sort it from there. If it does, meet you at Wibbleys for one of their monster burgers!
Dan

Some more fun and exciting wierdness:

Today, I get KING just fine. (around 70 for what that is worth) I still may get the better Yagi just to have a smaller antenna on the roof...

Dan I work very close to Wibbleys (walk there for lunch at least 2-3 times a week) just give me a call at 4 2 5 7 8 5 9 3 2 5 and we can hook up for lunch.

On a completely different antenna issue:

I'm trying to get a cellular booster working and I'm having a near of a time (can't figure out where to point it)

I'm trying to get AT&T (Cingular) PCS and haven't had any luck. DO I just need to hook up an o-scope and try and find the signal? or is there an easier way?

quarque & Dan -- You folks are providing an invaluable service to us Puget Sounders, Thank you. quarque helped me out quite some time ago and that resulted in pulling in the Seattle tower stations, quite nicely. However, with Fox/13 now starting to do the Seahawks in HD, I'm trying to pull in KCPQ on Gold Mountain.

I'm on the east side of Bainbridge Island (closest cross streets are Ferncliff & Yaquina), although I'm down towards the water - about a 120 ft elevation with, of course, lots of tall trees around.

It sure would be nice if KCPQ and KTWB could go back to their previous sharing arrangement, as KTWB comes in, just fine, but it doesn't sound like that is going to happen.

So, any help you could give would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Richard

I'm looking on my channel guide and on TitanTV, and I don't see any info on Q13 showing football in HD tomorrow (which is when FOX is saying their HD coverage begins). Obviously the guides may just be wrong, but does anyone have any concrete info on whether the games tomorrow on FOX will be in HD (especially the Seahawks)?


Ivan

The guides are wrong. Fox is starting HD tommorow. However not all FB games will be in HD, but most will be. Tomorrow's Seahawks game is one of the very few on Fox not to be in HD. I think the Seahawks next 4 games (after week 1) are scheduled for HD on FOX.
Tom

I need some advice from you all before I put down some big money on a HDTV.

I live in Belltown (corner of Wall and 5th). My apartment is facing straight into the Space Needle and onto Queen Anne Hill.

I am about to get a Sony HDTV and want to know if I have any issue getting HD reception from OTA. Unfortunatley this apartment only has Millenium cable and they dont provide HDTV feed. So my only option to get HDTV is OTA.
I am also facing 3 of the QA Hill antenna. I live on the 10th floor and there are no obstruction in front of my window. I am also looking straight into KOMO and KING stations (I think)

Any feedback, opinion will be much appreciated.

thanks, chp

Well my luck appears to have gone away:

KING signal is back down to 15
Radio Shack didn't have any antennas
Fry's didn't have any antennas
I checked my roof antenna and it appears to have a better UHF element than the Rat Shack one anyway... (It's a channel Master Near Fringe VHF/UHF model, I think 50 element total?)


I did notice that when I was recieving KING, the picture was horrible. (looked like it wasn't digital) Is that possible?

Originally posted by coldie
I did notice that when I was recieving KING, the picture was horrible. (looked like it wasn't digital) Is that possible?

Was there "snow" in the picture? If so, you were probably tuned into the wrong channel - you have to tune to 5-1 (or 48 I believe), not just channel 5. If it wasn't snow but just visual corruption, you may have just had a signal on the threshold with lots of breakups.


Ivan

Originally posted by coldie
On a completely different antenna issue:

I'm trying to get a cellular booster working and I'm having a near of a time (can't figure out where to point it)

I'm trying to get AT&T (Cingular) PCS and haven't had any luck. DO I just need to hook up an o-scope and try and find the signal? or is there an easier way?

(in homage to Quarque)... Post you nearest cross-streets, and I'll try to look up the closest site for you. (I work at AWS). Also, are you on TDMA or GSM or UMTS (the old, new, or newest system)? Shouldn't really matter, but not all our sites have all the technologies in place.

What kind of "booster" are you using? If your problem is a matter of distance from the site, even if you ramp up the power on the transmit side (which I think the FCC might not like) it may not help if you use GSM. The GSM system uses something called timing advance to compensate for path delay, but it is only good out to a certain distance from the site. If the timing advance is off, you end up clobbering other conversations on the shared channel.

As far as using an O-scope to find the signal, you'd need to know which specific freqs to look for in the 850 or 1900 bands.


-Mike

Originally posted by TAB
The guides are wrong. Fox is starting HD tommorow. However not all FB games will be in HD, but most will be. Tomorrow's Seahawks game is one of the very few on Fox not to be in HD. I think the Seahawks next 4 games (after week 1) are scheduled for HD on FOX.
Tom
I've learned NOT to trust most of the guides on what is in HD and what is not. The Seahawks were in glorious 720p and it looked great (well, the picture did, the game was not a thing of beauty - but I'll take a win any day). However I didn't care for the Dolby Digital 0.0 sound. During most of the game the sound faded in and out - very annoying. But the second game in HD (MIN vs DAL) was much better soundwise. I also watched a little of the CBS game in 1080i and DD 5.1 - everything was perfect, but then CBS has been at it a while longer than FOX.

Originally posted by coldie
Well my luck appears to have gone away:

KING signal is back down to 15
Radio Shack didn't have any antennas
Fry's didn't have any antennas
I checked my roof antenna and it appears to have a better UHF element than the Rat Shack one anyway... (It's a channel Master Near Fringe VHF/UHF model, I think 50 element total?)


I did notice that when I was recieving KING, the picture was horrible. (looked like it wasn't digital) Is that possible?

As Ivan noted, you were probably looking at analog 5. Digital is an "all-or-nothing" proposition. You can get horribly pixelated pictures sometimes but it does not look snowy like analog. As suggested earlier, it is time to move your antenna around to find the sweet spot for 5. By this I mean moving it not changing the orientation. People have found that even 6" of change in location can sometimes make the difference. Also try an inline attenuator. The other thing to try is a different antenna since they all work slightly different in regards to reflected signals.

Originally posted by pang
I need some advice from you all before I put down some big money on a HDTV.

I live in Belltown (corner of Wall and 5th). My apartment is facing straight into the Space Needle and onto Queen Anne Hill.

I am about to get a Sony HDTV and want to know if I have any issue getting HD reception from OTA. Unfortunatley this apartment only has Millenium cable and they dont provide HDTV feed. So my only option to get HDTV is OTA.
I am also facing 3 of the QA Hill antenna. I live on the 10th floor and there are no obstruction in front of my window. I am also looking straight into KOMO and KING stations (I think)

Any feedback, opinion will be much appreciated.

thanks, chp
You probably have a good shot at getting 4,5,6,7 & 13. If you have any windows facing east you should get 9,11,22 on Capitol Hill. Most antennas won't do well going through typical high-rise walls. Talk to the building manager about a rooftop antenna for the building. Some buildings have a coax outlet dedicated to such antennas. If you have other tall buildings to the north you might be able to get a relliable reflection for 9,11,22. The Winegard SquareShooter has been used successfully in exactly that situation. There is one mounted downtown that is used to feed the Canadian ExpressVue DBS system with our locals (after they tried about 4 other antennas without success).

Equipment/test options are: 1) borrow a receiver and cheap (unamplified) indoor antenna, or 2) pay for a $100 site evaluation, or 3) some stores might let you return a receiver if you can't get the stations you want. Walmart is now selling a receiver for < $200 if you want to go cheap. BB and CC also have open-box units for cheap sometimes.

Originally posted by RPack
quarque & Dan -- You folks are providing an invaluable service to us Puget Sounders, Thank you. quarque helped me out quite some time ago and that resulted in pulling in the Seattle tower stations, quite nicely. However, with Fox/13 now starting to do the Seahawks in HD, I'm trying to pull in KCPQ on Gold Mountain.

I'm on the east side of Bainbridge Island (closest cross streets are Ferncliff & Yaquina), although I'm down towards the water - about a 120 ft elevation with, of course, lots of tall trees around.

It sure would be nice if KCPQ and KTWB could go back to their previous sharing arrangement, as KTWB comes in, just fine, but it doesn't sound like that is going to happen.

So, any help you could give would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Richard
Plotting your line of sight to CH 13 does not show any major problems. Their transmitter is very high and there is nothing in you way. What happens when you point your antenna SW? You may need to get a rotor or use one of those Jointenna units with a second antenna.

Originally posted by quarque
You probably have a good shot at getting 4,5,6,7 & 13. If you have any windows facing east you should get 9,11,22 on Capitol Hill. Most antennas won't do well going through typical high-rise walls. Talk to the building manager about a rooftop antenna for the building. Some buildings have a coax outlet dedicated to such antennas. If you have other tall buildings to the north you might be able to get a relliable reflection for 9,11,22. The Winegard SquareShooter has been used successfully in exactly that situation. There is one mounted downtown that is used to feed the Canadian ExpressVue DBS system with our locals (after they tried about 4 other antennas without success).

Equipment/test options are: 1) borrow a receiver and cheap (unamplified) indoor antenna, or 2) pay for a $100 site evaluation, or 3) some stores might let you return a receiver if you can't get the stations you want. Walmart is now selling a receiver for < $200 if you want to go cheap. BB and CC also have open-box units for cheap sometimes.

quarque, thank you very much for the information. I might just try to get hold of some equipment just to see what I channels I can get. Would you be able to tell me who I can speak to for a site evaluation. This might be my only option if I can't get hold of some equipment .... thanks

pang - send a PM to AVS member DanKurts for evaluation if you can't get equipment by any other means.

It's nice to see that Fox has gone HD but I was disgusted to see that KCPQ (Q13 Fox Seattle) is taking advantage of the splicer's capability to insert their damn local logo on top of the Fox Network feed. This is ridiculous. There is no reason for it to be there.

A local logo belongs on a local show only! Don't contaminate a national program, Q13!

Originally posted by coldie
Well my luck appears to have gone away:

KING signal is back down to 15
Radio Shack didn't have any antennas
Fry's didn't have any antennas
...

Radio Shack does have one amplified "HDTV" antenna that looks like a Stealth Bomber, can't remember the model number off my head, didn't have much luck with it.

Frys carries the Channel Master 4228, for $50.00. I just bought one from them about a week ago, they just don't keep it with all the other Channel Master Antennas. You have to ask for it, it's kept in the back. Also, don't go back to the TV section, instead when you walk in go to the right towards Electronic components and ask someone there, that is where all the Channel Master stuff is.

Originally posted by robglasser
Radio Shack does have one amplified "HDTV" antenna that looks like a Stealth Bomber, can't remember the model number off my head, didn't have much luck with it.

Frys carries the Channel Master 4228, for $50.00. I just bought one from them about a week ago, they just don't keep it with all the other Channel Master Antennas. You have to ask for it, it's kept in the back. Also, don't go back to the TV section, instead when you walk in go to the right towards Electronic components and ask someone there, that is where all the Channel Master stuff is.

Ahh... I was looking for the 4228 with the other channel master stuff and didn't ask anyone for it. I'll swing down again and pick one up.

I'm at 156th and 20th in Bellevue. Using a GSM phone(1850 MHz band).

Booster is basically a pico-cell as far as I understand it. (directional send/recieve antenna for communication with cell and omni for in the house).



Originally posted by Spike89
(in homage to Quarque)... Post you nearest cross-streets, and I'll try to look up the closest site for you. (I work at AWS). Also, are you on TDMA or GSM or UMTS (the old, new, or newest system)? Shouldn't really matter, but not all our sites have all the technologies in place.

What kind of "booster" are you using? If your problem is a matter of distance from the site, even if you ramp up the power on the transmit side (which I think the FCC might not like) it may not help if you use GSM. The GSM system uses something called timing advance to compensate for path delay, but it is only good out to a certain distance from the site. If the timing advance is off, you end up clobbering other conversations on the shared channel.

As far as using an O-scope to find the signal, you'd need to know which specific freqs to look for in the 850 or 1900 bands.


-Mike

Is there any possible negative to me buying a ChannelMaster 4228? or is a YAGI a better choice for my location?

/ME wanders by, looking lost

HEY!
you guys look familiar! Anybody seen the "Seattle changes" thread ;)

hi everyone, I've been reading this thread, And I have a question for anyone who can give me the right advice. I live in dt Everett,Wa at wetmore & 24th street. I have a Hitachi 50v500 ,I would like to get ota stb, But before I do, I would like to know if i can get reception from dt everett thanks to anyone who can give me some advice and stuff. thank you. karl wright

Originally posted by weebling1
/ME wanders by, looking lost

HEY!
you guys look familiar! Anybody seen the "Seattle changes" thread ;)
They pulled the old switcheroo on us and renamed it to "OTA" so as to differentiate/clarify it from the Comcast thread.

Originally posted by karlw56
hi everyone, I've been reading this thread, And I have a question for anyone who can give me the right advice. I live in dt Everett,Wa at wetmore & 24th street. I have a Hitachi 50v500 ,I would like to get ota stb, But before I do, I would like to know if i can get reception from dt everett thanks to anyone who can give me some advice and stuff. thank you. karl wright
Welcome to AVS. I did a topo plot from that intersection and I'm sorry to say you have a large hump in the way (aka Mukilteo). You're at about 150 feet and the hump is at 600 feet. Without a 200 foot tower you have no line-of-sight to the DT towers in Seattle. CH13 in Bremerton looks doable without a tower but I wouldn't spend all those $$ for 1 channel. You should look into sat or cable for HD.

Originally posted by coldie
Is there any possible negative to me buying a ChannelMaster 4228? or is a YAGI a better choice for my location?
It's pretty much a crap shoot between the 4228 and 4248 (yagi). Until you try one you'll never know. People on AVS have used both many times with good success. I think it really comes down to what angle your reflected signals are coming in at since the gain plots vary between antennas. One may be sensitive to 45 degree off-axis signals and the other 60 degrees. I use the 4228, others say the 4248 is better in more situations...

Now, this isn't for your phone is it? :D

OK guys, so here's my dillemma. I'll see if you can help me on it. I want to get OTA HDTV, but I dont want to put a big ugly antenna on my house. Is this possible? Are there good antennas that you dont have to strap to a chimney, etc? I'd rather not put one of these things on my dream house. Any input would be appreciated.....

I think the Channel Master 4228 is a work of art. It does not look like a conventional antenna.

Originally posted by Rondo1
OK guys, so here's my dillemma. I'll see if you can help me on it. I want to get OTA HDTV, but I dont want to put a big ugly antenna on my house. Is this possible? Are there good antennas that you dont have to strap to a chimney, etc? I'd rather not put one of these things on my dream house. Any input would be appreciated.....
What is your nearest intersection to see if you have line-of-sight?
Winegard makes a small plastic-enclosed unit that is not too ugly if you don't mind the $100 price. It is called the SquareShooter and works up to about 40 miles under good conditions. The newest version is the SS-2000 with integrated amplifier and can be found at various places like:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SS-2000

You can still get the unamplified SS-1000 for $88 as well.

Originally posted by monsttr
I think the Channel Master 4228 is a work of art. It does not look like a conventional antenna.
What do you mean by "conventional"? The bowtie UHF design is at least 50 years old and is the basis for dozens of antenna designs. That's pretty conventional.

Hey, now thats more like it! :-) That winegard is certainly more of what I'm talking about. Cost isnt an issue in this regard. I'll spend what it takes to maintain asthetics if possible. But I dont want to give up performance. Anyway, I have Dan coming by on Friday to do a survey. I'm sure he'll be able to tell me if this will work. I'll be sure to tell him about it. Thanks guys.

-Ron

Dan may poo-poo it because it's not "conventional"... :D

I am near 40 and my whole life I had cable till I switched to DirecTV 4 years ago. To me conventional means a Yagi type antenna.

thank you quarque !

Well ChannelMaster 4228 is on it's way (just got it from Strong Signal, if it doesn't work, it's still better than my current...

I didn't bother with Frys because it's a pain in the butt for me to get down there.

Coldie

Originally posted by coldie
Well ChannelMaster 4228 is on it's way (just got it from Strong Signal, if it doesn't work, it's still better than my current...

I didn't bother with Frys because it's a pain in the butt for me to get down there.

Coldie

Coldie

I just PM'd you about selling you the 4228 I just bought, it's a pain for me to get down to Frys to return so if your interested PM me back, otherwise I'll just take it back next week.

Thanks

Originally posted by quarque
Dan may poo-poo it because it's not "conventional"... :D

Yo!
Until I've tested an antenna, I won't say bad or good about it. I'm not proud! What ever works and will last. Granted, it may not be conventional, but then there are some amazing things I've seen work.
Have one house in Lynnwood area that we set the 4221 on the GROUND leaning against the garage. 10ft away is a 15ft high cliff in the direction of the towers. Conventional says no way. I found the location by accident, a ground wave. Not real reliable, normally, but the user has been happy and never called back. Another in Union Hill area, tried everything, no hope. He was getting a few channels with a rusty 20 year old "WhoKnows" antenna, so I figured a new bigger one out to do at least as well or better.... Nope!
Ended up sanding the rusty terminals, putting on a new balun and cable, BOOM!! All the major channels came in. Go figure.
I am going to pickup an unamplified SquareShooter for grins, and will test it out. Heard some other success stories in close-in areas. We'll see. I'll let you all know how it does.
Dan

Dan, bring it out with you on the survey on Friday and if it works I'll buy it off of you right then and there! ;-) BTW, check your email.

Dan - just pulling your chain. The SqS has worked very well for a lot of people. SolidSignal sells a ton with very few returns. When you get yours, open it up and you will see how simple it is. Two PC boards with foil traces. One acts as a screen for the back side. The other is a complex spiral affair that was originally used for stuff other than UHF back in the 50's & 60's. The gain plot is very "flat" in the horizontal plane so it is not picky about direction. The neat thing is the insensitivity to signals from the side or back (almost zilch).

just got an ATI HDTV wonder, the included Antenna didn't find any channels :( pluggin in my address to Antenna web seemed very positive before i bought the card (it said that i would have a bunch of channels just with a small antenna) I am on education hill, near the Avondale and 116th Street cross streets. Any suggestions for what i should do? Do i need a different antenna? Also, does it matter that the antenna is near a window, or pointing towards one?

Thanks for the help.

Is there no one from Belltown/Downtown area on this forum? :(

I live in Belltown very close to Denny way on Western Avenue right across from the big black circular building on the first floor of an apartment complex. I have the radioshack antenna.

Here is what I get with the Antenna:
16-1 KONG-DT
9-6 KCTS-HD
9-1 KCTS-DT
7-1 KIRO-DT
5-1 KING-DT
5-2 KING-SD
4-1 KOMO-DT
4-2 KOMO-DT (not good quality - terrible audio)

Here's what I don't get:
22-1 KTWB-DT Nope (faint signal - not enough for video)
11-1 KSTW-DT Nope (almost non existent signal - not enough for video)

By twiddling around the antenna slightly I can kind of see video on 22-1 (WB). I have never seen FOX :(
I am not exactly sure where the antenna needs to point in order to get FOX. I don't have an attic. I have a balcony but it's hard to get a cable from the attic into the house (for sound proofing reasons).

Any recommendations? (I am attaching the image file for my location from antennaweb)

One more question, probably pretty dumb, when someone says point your antenna towards a specific station does it mean the rabbit ears should point towards that place or does the FACE of the antenna need to face the direction and the ears point away perpendicularly.

After doing another digital addon search on my Sanyo HDTV I got an additional channel
18-1 Looks like this is Q13 but the quality is really bad I get lots of pixelation as well as audio stutters.
The Signal bar goes from 0% (weak) to about 35% at times.

18-1 is KCPQ channel 13. Your rabbit ear elements would be perpendicular to the direction of the TV transmitter. Be sure your antenna also supports UHF (sometimes with a round element about 6-8 inches in diameter).

Are you on the north side of your building? Do you have any windows facing west or east? You may have to place your antenna near a west-facing window to get KCPQ 18-1 (13). Similarly, you may have to try an east-facing window to get 25-1 (22). For KSTW, you may be out of luck until they change their radiation pattern (currently favors south and north) and up their power. Like others have said repeatedly in this thread, moving an antenna even a few inches can make a big difference in UHF recepetion, which in Seattle also means HDTV reception.

Good luck.

BTW, do you see something on 9-6 or is that a typo and should it be 9-5?

Dan. I need your help!

I live in Bellevue on 156th and N.E 8th. I have HD tivo 250 and CM#4228 hang outside on the exterior wall facing west. I received very good signal between 82- 95% for KOMO, KING, KIRO, KCTS,KONG,FOX & UPN. I know I could not get PAX due to the different direction. However, I have problem with getting WB22. One day the signal is stable at 72-74 and I have no problem. And another day the signal kept boucing from 15-74 with pixalization. I have tried to adjust the signal but no luck.

Please help!. Thanks.

niharika:
You won't get anything on KSTW-DT until they raise their power, hopefully later this year.

So... what's the deal with 5-2 SD, and why would they send a "Standard Definition" over a DTV spectrum? Is NBC planning on doing what ABC did with their ABC Now channel?

BTW to the person noticing 4-1 (ABC Now) having a bad picture. I think we all do. Does anyone know when or if ABC plans on doing anything about that, or are these all just "experimental" channels?

Originally posted by jkkw
just got an ATI HDTV wonder, the included Antenna didn't find any channels :( pluggin in my address to Antenna web seemed very positive before i bought the card (it said that i would have a bunch of channels just with a small antenna) I am on education hill, near the Avondale and 116th Street cross streets. Any suggestions for what i should do? Do i need a different antenna? Also, does it matter that the antenna is near a window, or pointing towards one?

Thanks for the help.
Not surprising. I did a topo plot and you have a large hill to the SW that is blocking all the towers. You are in a low area (100 ft) and the hill is about 350 ft. You would need a 150 foot tower to have direct line of sight. I'd say your chances for DT are very slim.

Originally posted by niharika
Is there no one from Belltown/Downtown area on this forum? :(

I live in Belltown very close to Denny way on Western Avenue right across from the big black circular building on the first floor of an apartment complex. I have the radioshack antenna.

Here is what I get with the Antenna:
16-1 KONG-DT
9-6 KCTS-HD
9-1 KCTS-DT
7-1 KIRO-DT
5-1 KING-DT
5-2 KING-SD
4-1 KOMO-DT
4-2 KOMO-DT (not good quality - terrible audio)

Here's what I don't get:
22-1 KTWB-DT Nope (faint signal - not enough for video)
11-1 KSTW-DT Nope (almost non existent signal - not enough for video)

By twiddling around the antenna slightly I can kind of see video on 22-1 (WB). I have never seen FOX :(
I am not exactly sure where the antenna needs to point in order to get FOX. I don't have an attic. I have a balcony but it's hard to get a cable from the attic into the house (for sound proofing reasons).

Any recommendations? (I am attaching the image file for my location from antennaweb)

One more question, probably pretty dumb, when someone says point your antenna towards a specific station does it mean the rabbit ears should point towards that place or does the FACE of the antenna need to face the direction and the ears point away perpendicularly.
The antennaweb plot shows you the directions. The antenna legs point toward the station if they are in a vee shape, otherwise they should be perpendicular to th station (shortest element in front). I would help if you gave a model number so we know what antenna you have.

Being on the first floor will greatly hinder all but the QA towers. You need to have direct line of sight for UHF DT signals. A better antenna might help but it sounds like your space and mounting options are limited. The Silver Sensor by Zenith is highly rated for indoors/balconies. You can also try the overpriced SquareShooter by Winegard.

Originally posted by Joe Hendrix
So... what's the deal with 5-2 SD, and why would they send a "Standard Definition" over a DTV spectrum? Is NBC planning on doing what ABC did with their ABC Now channel?
Who knows? Over 50% of current digital transmissions are "Standard Definition" broadcasts, so this is nothing unusual. "Digital" does not have to mean "High Def" according to the FCC.

BTW to the person noticing 4-1 (ABC Now) having a bad picture. I think we all do. Does anyone know when or if ABC plans on doing anything about that, or are these all just "experimental" channels? [/B]
After the olympic coverage I'm pretty sure IT'S ALL EXPERIMENTAL at this point. We HD people make up less than 1% of the TV audience so why should they care about quality? With more and more subchannels popping up they are obviously thinking about *quantity* and not quality. I fear that in 5 years there will be a plethora of SD and low-quality HD digital and very little high-quality HD left (due to bandwidth). A real shame...

quarque:

This is the antenna that i have:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1880
(Radioshack 15-1880)

Originally posted by danvo
Dan. I need your help!

I live in Bellevue on 156th and N.E 8th. I have HD tivo 250 and CM#4228 hang outside on the exterior wall facing west. I received very good signal between 82- 95% for KOMO, KING, KIRO, KCTS,KONG,FOX & UPN. I know I could not get PAX due to the different direction. However, I have problem with getting WB22. One day the signal is stable at 72-74 and I have no problem. And another day the signal kept boucing from 15-74 with pixalization. I have tried to adjust the signal but no luck.

Please help!. Thanks.

This was merged in up above. If anyone can help danvo, please post.

In Kirkland, I can get KCPQ on 18-1 but not on 13-1. Antennaweb shows them as being the same distance and orientation (Tacoma). What gives?

If I can just get 13-1 (or figure out how to make my Replay tune 18-1) I will be all set.

Originally posted by niharika
quarque:

This is the antenna that i have:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1880
(Radioshack 15-1880)
OK, that explains a lot. It is a combo VHF/UHF deal. The rabbit ears are for VHF and the loopy things are for UHF. You point the nose/face of it toward the TV tower. You can keep the rabbit ears lowered since they are not doing anything for your UHF signals. This is not the greatest antenna around. If you can return it, I would get a better antenna for UHF like the Silver Sensor (I think Sears carries them).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by danvo
Dan. I need your help!

I live in Bellevue on 156th and N.E 8th. I have HD tivo 250 and CM#4228 hang outside on the exterior wall facing west. I received very good signal between 82- 95% for KOMO, KING, KIRO, KCTS,KONG,FOX & UPN. I know I could not get PAX due to the different direction. However, I have problem with getting WB22. One day the signal is stable at 72-74 and I have no problem. And another day the signal kept boucing from 15-74 with pixalization. I have tried to adjust the signal but no luck.

Please help!. Thanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This was merged in up above. If anyone can help danvo, please post.

Originally posted by CPanther95 [/i]
This was merged in up above. If anyone can help danvo, please post.

This sounds like a multipath(reflection) problem or tree interference. Moving your antenna is about the only thing you can do. Even a few feet up/dn/left/right can make a huge difference.

Originally posted by horseflesh
In Kirkland, I can get KCPQ on 18-1 but not on 13-1. Antennaweb shows them as being the same distance and orientation (Tacoma). What gives?

If I can just get 13-1 (or figure out how to make my Replay tune 18-1) I will be all set.
They are the same signal. Most STB's map the digital channel (18-1) to the analog channel (13-1) automatically but sometimes it does not work right. What STB are you using? If we can't help you the Hardware forum may be your next option. Have you tried a channel delete & re-enter? or a scan?

BTW the tower is actually west of Bremerton not near Tacoma where their offices are.

They are the SAME signal, not a simulcast?

I have a Samsung SIR-T151, which is good about the remapping otherwise. I can enter in the analog channel number (4, 5, 7 etc) and it will tune in the appropriate digital signal. KCPQ is my only problem. I can't even enter in 13 on the remote, it shows "13-0" and a black screen.

On previous channel scans, I have seen 13-1 mapped, but it never came in strong. Now I have 18-1 coming in, so I figured they were simulcast. I will try re-scanning to see if 13-1 comes back.

Thanks!

IIRC, about a year+ ago, when I was paying attention to OTA PSIP data, I think KCPQ-DT (18-n real, 13-n mapped) actually provided guide data for channel 13-0 which represents their ANALOG channel. Apparently the ATSC standards specify that nn-0 is valid for PSIP for an analog channel program guide. I was able to see that PSIP data on my RCA DTC-100 at the time.

If the Samsung SIR-T151 is digital only (I can't remember) then it may be confused by the KCPQ PSIP data that includes 13-0 for their analog program schedule.

Of course, by now this could all be out of date, since I have not looked at PSIP data for over a year.

I have the T150 which is nearly identical. I have seen it lose the mapped channel once in a great while (usually when the station does something odd with their PSIP data I presume). Usually a delete/add works but one time I had to rescan. It is usually a temporary thing lasting a day or two at most.

Very strange. I will try fooling with it again in a few days. Thanks!

I also use a Samsung SIR-T151.

For about a month, KCPQ has been 18-1, without mapping to 13-1.

For about three weeks after ABC News Now launched, KOMO and ABC News Now were 38-1 and 38-2, but are now mapping to 4-1 and 4-2 again.

For what it's worth, KHCV has always been 44-1 without mapping to 45-1.

Can anyone give me an idea of what I might be looking at for UHF OTA signals? I'm moving into my first house in a few days and want to know what I'm up against. The address is:

13621 8th ave s
Burien, WA 98168

I currently live in Lake City and am using a SS which works great...I'm just concerned that it won't cut it now that I won't be in a 5th floor apartment.

Thanks for any help,
Greg

Originally posted by theaterman
Can anyone give me an idea of what I might be looking at for UHF OTA signals? I'm moving into my first house in a few days and want to know what I'm up against. The address is:

13621 8th ave s
Burien, WA 98168

I currently live in Lake City and am using a SS which works great...I'm just concerned that it won't cut it now that I won't be in a 5th floor apartment.

Thanks for any help,
Greg
Your house is at about 360 feet and you have a hill just to the north at 400 feet. You can try the SS in the attic but you may end up needing an antenna on the roof for reliable reception. Line of sight is at about 25-30 feet off the ground for you. Do you have any trees or buildings to the north that might be a problem?

Are you living in one of those hideous multi-colored things that I drive by every day?

Yes, I am currently living in an "urban dwelling" as some around here like to call it...i myself prefer something a little more tame. Do you think that if the SS doesn't work in the attic I might have luck with a 4221 or 4228 in the attic?
My house will face east-west with the north side of the house pointing towards the antennas on QA and CH. The north side has just siding (wall) and no roofing of any kind. Outside is just some taller shrubs and the house next door which shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks
Greg

Yes the 4221 or 4228 will work in an attic as long as you don't have any metal material in the roof or insulation. The 4221 is cheaper and smaller so if the SS won't cut it you might try that. The 4228 has higher gain which would be a plus for indoors. What do you plan for CH13 which is WNW from you? The common solutions are a rotor or a combiner. You have a straight shot at Bremerton from ground level so almost anything will work, even through a west-facing window. Your north-facing wall will cut signal level somewhat but you are only 10 miles from the Seattle towers so ther should be plenty of signal.

Thanks for the info..I really don't care about fox at this point...I believe they only show stuff in 480p anyway right? I think I'll try the ss first then take it up to a 4221 or 8 if needed. Is it possible to use a SS and a 4221 and combine them or does it need to be an identical antenna? Then I could just point the SS at Bremerton.

Fox is showing footbal in 720p and I believe they are migrating away from 480 on other stuff. You can combine two antennas using a cheapo Rat Shack combiner - some have had success. The "professional" way is to order a Channel Master JoinTenna for channel 18 (13's digital freq.). This helps prevent crosstalk between the antennas at similar frequencies. You can also run a cable from each down to your tuner and use an A-B switch to select the antenna (also cheap at RS).

Originally posted by theaterman
Yes, I am currently living in an "urban dwelling" as some around here like to call it...i myself prefer something a little more tame. Do you think that if the SS doesn't work in the attic I might have luck with a 4221 or 4228 in the attic?
My house will face east-west with the north side of the house pointing towards the antennas on QA and CH. The north side has just siding (wall) and no roofing of any kind. Outside is just some taller shrubs and the house next door which shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks
Greg

Greg
There are a lot of trees for about a mile before you get to the towers. They don't look like much, I know, but they can be a real pain. Signal level isn't the problem. It's getting a consistent amount across the whole 6mhz of each HD channel. The trees act like a filter for certain frequencies. I put up dozens of analog antennas in the Burien area, it was always a challenge. HD is just as fussy, there. If you can get the 4221 out on the roof or at least on the North side of the house, high as possible, you should get 13 as well as the rest. Might take some moving around to find the right spot for all channels, but will work far better than in your attic.
Dan

Originally posted by quarque
Dan - just pulling your chain. The SqS has worked very well for a lot of people. SolidSignal sells a ton with very few returns. When you get yours, open it up and you will see how simple it is. Two PC boards with foil traces. One acts as a screen for the back side. The other is a complex spiral affair that was originally used for stuff other than UHF back in the 50's & 60's. The gain plot is very "flat" in the horizontal plane so it is not picky about direction. The neat thing is the insensitivity to signals from the side or back (almost zilch).

quarque
I intend to do just that. I'm really curious to see what it does in the tough spots.
And, after 30 years of marriage, I'm fairly immune to the chain pulling!
No worries, mate!
Dan

Originally posted by danvo
Dan. I need your help!

I live in Bellevue on 156th and N.E 8th. I have HD tivo 250 and CM#4228 hang outside on the exterior wall facing west. I received very good signal between 82- 95% for KOMO, KING, KIRO, KCTS,KONG,FOX & UPN. I know I could not get PAX due to the different direction. However, I have problem with getting WB22. One day the signal is stable at 72-74 and I have no problem. And another day the signal kept boucing from 15-74 with pixalization. I have tried to adjust the signal but no luck.

Please help!. Thanks.
danvo
What you might be running into is something the maps and Topo programs don't show. Not only are trees a problem there, but the tall buildings in downtown Bellevue. They can really put a "hole" in a channel. I've seen 20db deep notches in all the channels at one location or another. If you're right on the edge of what your decoder can handle, the tree limbs moving in the breeze can add that extra bit to throw the decoder off. Remember, the numbers you're seeing are not signal amount or level, but signal to noise ratio. If WB is right on the edge, you'll see those kinds of results. As quarque said, it doesn't take much movement to make a difference. Patience is the key. Also, you might try an attenuator, like the adjustable one from RatShack. If it doesn't work, take it back. I doubt you're getting overloaded there, but anything's possible...
Dan

The other day, I watched KCTS 9-1 and they were broadcasting one of those 16:9 HD program which was obviously down converted to 480i and I have to say the quality was not that far from when broadcasted in the HD channel. Well, that may be a stretch but it was sure a class or two above those 4:3 SD upconverted to HD. Last year, when FOX was doing NFL in 16:9 480p, I thought of it the same way. But when I watched college football, or golf, ... in 4:3 upconvert, they were just bad. Do you guys see the same thing? My take would be the old recording equipment are not up to par with the new ones even when dealing with 480i/p.

There certainly does seem to be a wide variation on both HD and SD. Some of the primetime network stuff that is supposed to be HD looks more like 480p because of all the compression. I also wonder about the time-shifting that goes on with west coast programming. I think we are not getting the same quality as the east coast on some shows. I do like what FOX has done with football this year - PQ is great.

Originally posted by quarque
There certainly does seem to be a wide variation on both HD and SD. Some of the primetime network stuff that is supposed to be HD looks more like 480p because of all the compression. I also wonder about the time-shifting that goes on with west coast programming. I think we are not getting the same quality as the east coast on some shows.

Some of the PQ variation is due to "artistic choice" by the director of the show. For example, West Wing they apparently want the picture to look like crap for some reason.

I don't think time shifting would have any impact on the west coast.

Just an update on my situation:

I got a Channel Master 4228 and still no reception on KING-5 (48). I'm going to try moving the antenna around on my roof. I have a feeling the church nearby is giving me a reflection (if I angle the antenna away from the church, I do get a better signal, but not enough to actually get an image.

An attenuator doesn't seem to help, so it really appears that the signal is just that weak...

Any suggestions?

Would a pre-amp/amp help at all?

Anything I can do besides move the antenna around on my roof and hope?

Coldie

If you are experiencing multi-path reflections an amp is not likely to help. Moving the antenna is a better bet. Amps are good for bumping up weak signals or long cable runs and would only magnify a reflected signal. You probably need a more stable signal vs an increased signal.
Tom

Can anyone with topo software run the intersection of 172nd Ave NE and 40th Street in Redmond, WA (right at the border of Bellevue and Redmond)?

I am trying to decide what my options are for DTV. I've tried an indoor antenna with bad results. Thought I'd inquire here what my chances were before purchasing any more expensive gear. My area is also populated by a lot of trees (just to complicate things further :) ).

Thanks for any input you can provide!

Sagen

Originally posted by Sagen
Can anyone with topo software run the intersection of 172nd Ave NE and 40th Street in Redmond, WA (right at the border of Bellevue and Redmond)?

I am trying to decide what my options are for DTV. I've tried an indoor antenna with bad results. Thought I'd inquire here what my chances were before purchasing any more expensive gear. My area is also populated by a lot of trees (just to complicate things further :) ).

Thanks for any input you can provide!

Sagen
I checked your profile and it looks pretty bad. You're at about 130 feet elevation and 1 mile west of you is a 350 foot hill. This is blocking everything pretty severly. You would need a 150-foot tower to get direct line of sight. Sorry. :( Cable or Sat is about it.

Originally posted by coldie
Just an update on my situation:

I got a Channel Master 4228 and still no reception on KING-5 (48). I'm going to try moving the antenna around on my roof. I have a feeling the church nearby is giving me a reflection (if I angle the antenna away from the church, I do get a better signal, but not enough to actually get an image.

An attenuator doesn't seem to help, so it really appears that the signal is just that weak...

Any suggestions?

Would a pre-amp/amp help at all?

Anything I can do besides move the antenna around on my roof and hope?

Coldie

Coldie,

I've lately been seeing reduced signal strength on KING-5, starting around 9-15-04. Are you having problems with any other channels? Is anybody else noticing recent signal problems with KING-5?

All of my other DTV stations on my OTA antenna have been acting normally during this time so maybe your problem is just with KING. This includes KOMO, KIRO, KCTS. I've always had spotty reception on KCPQ-13 at my location in southwest Queen Anne Hill.

Quarque, Thanks for running that for me. I was afraid that was the case. Guess I'll have to consider waiting till DirecTV launches a big honking satellite and will carry the broadcast affiliates.

Thanks again for the assistance!

Sagen

Originally posted by dancook
Coldie,

I've lately been seeing reduced signal strength on KING-5, starting around 9-15-04. Are you having problems with any other channels? Is anybody else noticing recent signal problems with KING-5?

....

No recent problems with KING-DT in Mill Creek.

I too have some minor issues with KING starting early summer. The STBs (TU-DST52 & LST-3510A) seemed slower to lock on the signal and sometimes there were dropouts. It also seems more susceptible to home electronics. When my wife is in the mood of sewing, I simply cannot be in the royal court.

EDIT: I am in Lynnwood

thanks quarque... looks like i'm SOL for DTOA :( Thanks for helping.

Originally posted by pastiche
I also use a Samsung SIR-T151.

For about a month, KCPQ has been 18-1, without mapping to 13-1.


Whew, I am not crazy.

Is it worth contacting station engineering to ask them to fix it?

I guess I know the answer but I will try anyway. :)

All of my other channels are fine (80-90 on the signal meter) including KONG.

Coldie

Originally posted by dancook
Coldie,

I've lately been seeing reduced signal strength on KING-5, starting around 9-15-04. Are you having problems with any other channels? Is anybody else noticing recent signal problems with KING-5?

I think it's probably coincidental, but for last several days I've been getting KING-HD on 5-1 and (a VERY heavily compressed) KING-SD on 5-2.

Kind of a shame that they didn't multicast during the Olympics when it would've been useful to have a digital KING-SD.

Originally posted by horseflesh
Whew, I am not crazy.

Is it worth contacting station engineering to ask them to fix it?

I guess I know the answer but I will try anyway. :)

I once corresponded with an engineer at KCPQ/KTWB, shortly after they stopped their simulcasting. He was helpful and well-informed.

I rather suspect that someone there is monitoring this thread, though. KCPQ is back on 13-1 for the first time in weeks, tonight! :-)

You're right, great news!