delete... repost twice.

Originally posted by Spike89
I live in Indianola at the top of Nachant Dr. I can get FOX (18-1) beautifully when I aim my antenna towards the S-SW even from inside my attic (I'm a good 180 feet above sea level), but of course lose it when I point towards the Seattle sticks. If you're down on the Indianola Spit I'd think you still would have decent luck if you point your antenna towards Bremerton/Gorst, but the trees above Suquamish might give you trouble...

-Mike

Thanks for the info Mike (and others!). I am on the spit and I agree that Suquamish is probably the issue. How do you manage the issue of re aiming your antenna? Mine is mounted firm to a fence. I could modify it (so I can physically move it in train)and calibrate it for 2 settings I guess. What a pain in the neck! I thought this was 2004 not 1949.

Does anyone know what Directv's Ch 89/FoxW is or where it goes? Can we receive it with a waiver?

Thank's all! Chris

Hey, quick question... Did anyone happen to watch Boston Legal last Sunday on Seattle's CBS HD?

We had annoying audio dropouts from about 0:30 through 0:50 of the show. The image was rock-solid the whole time.

Wondering if it was the source video, or perhaps something that can happen with reception problems? (We're still new to this OTA HD thing... :)

Originally posted by baymar


Does anyone know what Directv's Ch 89/FoxW is or where it goes? Can we receive it with a waiver?

Thank's all! Chris


Channel 88 (HD Fox E-NY)and 89 (HD Fox W-LA) are only broadcasting during sporting events like the World Series for now.

If you have the other distant locals...the East/West Network HD channels should appear automatically.



Hope that helps...Doug

Hello All,
Great thread! I've learned quite a bit but still have a couple of reception issues, Fox reception being the worst. Since channel 13.1 moved to Gold Mountain, I've not received it once. I'm in the Wallingford neighborhood close to the intersection of 40th St and Eastern Ave N with a Samsung SIR165 hooked up to both a Silver Sensor and a bowtie (attempting to get a wide reception zone) up in the attic.

I thought maybe 13.1 was obstructed by Queen Anne, but quarque plotted someone else in the neighborhood and it wasn't a problem. I double checked the QA clearance with a Washington Gazetteer and a great topo map site, topozone, which is accurate to 5 meters. My line of sight to Gold Mountain crosses the north part of Queen Anne in the vicinity of the Mt Pleasant Cemetery, which is at 100m, giving me about 25m of clearance. Looking out the upstairs window in that direction, about 120' away and slightly uphill there is a house with a couple of 45' trees. Would these completely block the signal? Those are the only obstructions in that direction.

I've got a 4221 on order that I'll try in the attic and, if necessary, on the roof. I also have trouble receiving all the closer stations at once, given the wide spread to Capitol and Queen Anne hills. I get dropouts when someone walks around upstairs, so it's probably a multi-path problem. I'm hoping the 4221 will be suitable for this and also be able to pull in 13. Am I asking too much of the 4221? Any other suggestions?

Originally posted by dennya
Hey, quick question... Did anyone happen to watch Boston Legal last Sunday on Seattle's CBS HD?

We had annoying audio dropouts from about 0:30 through 0:50 of the show. The image was rock-solid the whole time.

Wondering if it was the source video, or perhaps something that can happen with reception problems? (We're still new to this OTA HD thing... :)

Hummm....

While I was watching the World Series last night on 13-1 the "audio" had a few stutters and dropouts...my Samsung 360 reset 3 times (first time ever)!!!

I switched over to DirecTv's HD feed on channel 89 and never had a problem.

What's up with the 13-1???....or maybe it's just me!

Originally posted by NHLFAN
Channel 88 (HD Fox E-NY)and 89 (HD Fox W-LA) are only broadcasting during sporting events like the World Series for now.

If you have the other distant locals...the East/West Network HD channels should appear automatically.



Hope that helps...Doug

Doug, will 89 turn on when the Baseball game starts? I tried it last week and it said to call DTV to order it. Is it something we have to subscribe to ro does it just come on from time to time?

Originally posted by NHLFAN
Channel 88 (HD Fox E-NY)and 89 (HD Fox W-LA) are only broadcasting during sporting events like the World Series for now.

If you have the other distant locals...the East/West Network HD channels should appear automatically.



Hope that helps...Doug

Doug, I now see the comment re: 'Distant locals'. I do not get distant locals at this time. Do I need to call and plead for a waiver?

Originally posted by baymar
Thanks for the info Mike (and others!). I am on the spit and I agree that Suquamish is probably the issue. How do you manage the issue of re aiming your antenna? Mine is mounted firm to a fence. I could modify it (so I can physically move it in train)and calibrate it for 2 settings I guess. What a pain in the neck! I thought this was 2004 not 1949.

Does anyone know what Directv's Ch 89/FoxW is or where it goes? Can we receive it with a waiver?

Thank's all! Chris
Chris, just wanted to make sure you are talking about an off-air antenna and not DirecTV dish when you say your antenna is mounted to the fence...
If you are talking about an off-air /old-fashioned TV antenna, first point it towards Gold Mountain (roughly S-SW, 203 degrees magnetic compass bearing) and see if you can get ch 13-1 (Fox digital, UHF CH 18). You will need to tweak the aiming just right, so you will need a helper or be able to see the TV from where the antenna is.

If you can get 13-1 with your antenna, you have a few options:

option 1) Get 2 antennae, 1 pointed towards seattle, the other towards Gold Mt and then:
A)-run two downleads into your house and use an A/B antenna switch (about 10 bucks) to switch between antennae or
B)-try to combine the two antennae onto 1 downlead using the channel master "jointenna" solution

option 2) Use one antenna on an electric rotator to change the antenna direction as needed. You will need to install a rotator cable between the rotator and the rotator controller (located in your house).

option 3) Try to find an antenna with a wide enough beamwidth that can pick up both the Seattle towers and the Gold Mt tower. Maybe a CM 4221? We're talking about 90 degrees of separation here. Forumn member and installer Dan Kurts may be able to help you out better in this area...

If you're talking about trying to get any of the National Networks (ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX) in HDTV off DirecTV, good luck getting a waiver since you fall well within the the local stations service area, but who knows it might be worth a try.

As for me, right now I have my antenna fixed towards Seattle. I'm trying to pick up FOX via method 1B above (no luck yet, but have been too busy to play around with it for a few months).

-Mike

Edit: I guess option 4 is to use one antenna and mark the optimum reception directions on the mast, then go out and manually swing the thing around whenever you want to watch either FOX or the other stations. FUN!

Originally posted by WynsWrld98
Thanks Dan. For both Dish Network and DirecTV do they face the same direction?


Yes, basically, Dish is a little lower, at 150 & 160, Direct at 140-150-160 degrees, 36-37 degrees elevation.
Dan

Originally posted by NHLFAN
Channel 88 (HD Fox E-NY)and 89 (HD Fox W-LA) are only broadcasting during sporting events like the World Series for now.

If you have the other distant locals...the East/West Network HD channels should appear automatically.



Hope that helps...Doug

Doug
One of my customers has the same grandfathered analog East/West coast feeds, but doesn't get the HD feeds. We did put up a HD dish, and he gets HD Discovery/Sho/HBO, etc. What does your bill say or what was their name for the program you pay for to get those?
Thanks
Dan

Originally posted by shaftoe
Hello All,
Great thread! I've learned quite a bit but still have a couple of reception issues, Fox reception being the worst. Since channel 13.1 moved to Gold Mountain, I've not received it once. I'm in the Wallingford neighborhood close to the intersection of 40th St and Eastern Ave N with a Samsung SIR165 hooked up to both a Silver Sensor and a bowtie (attempting to get a wide reception zone) up in the attic.

I thought maybe 13.1 was obstructed by Queen Anne, but quarque plotted someone else in the neighborhood and it wasn't a problem. I double checked the QA clearance with a Washington Gazetteer and a great topo map site, topozone, which is accurate to 5 meters. My line of sight to Gold Mountain crosses the north part of Queen Anne in the vicinity of the Mt Pleasant Cemetery, which is at 100m, giving me about 25m of clearance. Looking out the upstairs window in that direction, about 120' away and slightly uphill there is a house with a couple of 45' trees. Would these completely block the signal? Those are the only obstructions in that direction.

I've got a 4221 on order that I'll try in the attic and, if necessary, on the roof. I also have trouble receiving all the closer stations at once, given the wide spread to Capitol and Queen Anne hills. I get dropouts when someone walks around upstairs, so it's probably a multi-path problem. I'm hoping the 4221 will be suitable for this and also be able to pull in 13. Am I asking too much of the 4221? Any other suggestions?

shaftoe
I use the 4221 all the time over there. You're right, trees WILL block your signal. How much depends on how big they are, what channel/frequency, nearby houses, etc. It's not multipath, just signals being blocked. Your attic makes an excellent tree, too, with all that wood. Once you get it outside, life will be easier. I usually aim it more towards Queen Anne than due south to pull in 13 better.
Dan

I had very bad audio dropouts last night while watching Desperate Housewives... which leads into Boston Legal. When the audio was working, it was out of synch for most of the time. I've also had several audio dropouts while watching Lost. The video would sometimes stutter a bit during this period of audio dropout.

Any theories or ideas? Anyone else having these problems?

Originally posted by Joe Hendrix
I had very bad audio dropouts last night while watching Desperate Housewives... which leads into Boston Legal. When the audio was working, it was out of synch for most of the time. I've also had several audio dropouts while watching Lost. The video would sometimes stutter a bit during this period of audio dropout.

Any theories or ideas? Anyone else having these problems?

I had the same problems with Desperate Housewives, it was out of sync the whole time and there were audio dropouts. NBC, CBS and WB seemed fine with their shows of the few minutes I watched their programs. The audio was in sync. I didn't see any info on it in the programming section so maybe it was a local issue? who knows. I have noticed other shows that have this audio sync problem too.

I just wanted to report back on the thread about my adventures in HD in Redmond Ridge. The experts here advised getting a CM 4221 or 4228 but I could not find them at Fry's so I got the CM 3020 (the biggest CM antenna I guess) and only hooked up the UHF part of the antenna (no preamp). Just assembled in indoors (second floor bedroom facing west) and hooked it up. Happy to say that I am getting 6-7 stations (4.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1 and 3 shopping channels). I can get 25.1 (KTWB) if a move the antenna a little but then I lose 4.1, 5.1 and 9.1. This antenna is very directional!

I am not able to get KONG or UPN at all. BTW, I have lots of tall trees to the west.

So far it has been very encouraging, but not the perfect setup. I am trying to avoid using a rotor and outside mount if possible but still get the stations that are roughly in the same direction, just a few degrees apart.

Some questions for the experts:
1. Would a CM 4228 or 4248 be better at pulling in stations that are roughly in the same direction (as compared to the 3020)?
2. What's the difference in 4228 and 4248?
3. Would a pre-amp help?
4. The bedroom has glass windows towards the stations, so that might be helping with the signals a bit compared to if if was a wall. Would the signal suffer if I put the antenna in the attic which is higher but with no glass windows?
5. Good sites for buying CM stuff with reasonable return policy?

Thanks a lot, everyone!

Originally posted by Joe Hendrix
I had very bad audio dropouts last night while watching Desperate Housewives... which leads into Boston Legal. When the audio was working, it was out of synch for most of the time. I've also had several audio dropouts while watching Lost. The video would sometimes stutter a bit during this period of audio dropout.

Any theories or ideas? Anyone else having these problems?

I've been having the exact same problems with several of ABC's HiDef shows, including Lost, Desperate Housewives, and others. I'm pretty sure it's a KOMO/ABC feed issue. I spoke with one of their engineers several weeks ago about the lipsynch issues and he told me they're still trying to resolve several issues between ABC's feeds and their transmitter. It looked like the problems were resolved for a while, but now they're back again.

Same here... I thought I was imagining the lip synch problem but I guess not. Right near the end of the 2nd episode of Lost on sat I had so many audio drop outs I couldn't watch anymore (switched to watching low def cable). Glad to hear it wasn't just my setup.

Okay, thank you -- I thought it was just me. Monday Night Football, Desparate Housewives and Boston Legal are all doing the sputtering for me, and it makes them unwatchable. We were watching a recorded Boston Legal the other day and my wife finally turned it off because it started freaking out. As soon as KOMO goes to local programming, it's perfect. Then they go back to National and it sputters. I tried calling their engineer but didnt' get a call back.

Hopefully, they will fix this soon, otherwise I have to watch analog. :(

I only watched about 15 minutes of Monday Night Football tonight, but the stuttering and freezing was terrible.

Originally posted by eliza04
I just wanted to report back on the thread about my adventures in HD in Redmond Ridge. The experts here advised getting a CM 4221 or 4228 but I could not find them at Fry's so I got the CM 3020 (the biggest CM antenna I guess) and only hooked up the UHF part of the antenna (no preamp). Just assembled in indoors (second floor bedroom facing west) and hooked it up. Happy to say that I am getting 6-7 stations (4.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1 and 3 shopping channels). I can get 25.1 (KTWB) if a move the antenna a little but then I lose 4.1, 5.1 and 9.1. This antenna is very directional!

I am not able to get KONG or UPN at all. BTW, I have lots of tall trees to the west.

So far it has been very encouraging, but not the perfect setup. I am trying to avoid using a rotor and outside mount if possible but still get the stations that are roughly in the same direction, just a few degrees apart.

Some questions for the experts:
1. Would a CM 4228 or 4248 be better at pulling in stations that are roughly in the same direction (as compared to the 3020)?
2. What's the difference in 4228 and 4248?
3. Would a pre-amp help?
4. The bedroom has glass windows towards the stations, so that might be helping with the signals a bit compared to if if was a wall. Would the signal suffer if I put the antenna in the attic which is higher but with no glass windows?
5. Good sites for buying CM stuff with reasonable return policy?

Thanks a lot, everyone!

eliza04
1. The 4248 is basically the same thing as the front half of the 3020. The only thing you would gain would be the ability to mount or move it around easier in the attic without the big VHF part. The 4228 might work better, depending on your attic height, as it mounts vertically, giving you different options.
As far as which would work better in an attic, it's a coin toss. You're fighting too many variables. One may work far better than the other, but the only true way you're going to find out is to try each one in various locations and see what happens.
2. The 4228 has a wide reception path, the 4248 is narrow. Outside of the attic, the 4248 generally works better than the 4228 in the trees, as it ignores the different signal levels that are coming through them, like looking through a long tube. The 4228 looks at everything coming in up to about 70 degrees or so either side of center. It has a little more gain in the wide open spaces, but looses some when in the trees. (There's a lot more to this, as to why one works better than the other, but that's the basics) A 4221, which is half of a 4228, would probably work just as well for you, and give you more places to mount it.
3. A preamp might help, but it's hard to say. I would think not, since you're doing pretty well right now. Do the best you can without one, first, and when you have the best possible location, then try it and see what happens. Definitely use an adjustable attenuator from RatShack, as you're going to have a lot of signal, and could overload the receiver, making things worse. If you choose to do so, use a 7775.
4. The signal will definitely suffer away from the window. Attics can be real fun when trying to find the signal. And don't forget, when the roof is wet, it makes things worse. For those that are not bothered by this, it's only because they're getting enough signal to overcome it. If you saw it on a meter, though, it does get worse. If your signal is marginal, you'll see it.
5. RatShack is the only one I'm familiar with that has a return policy once an antenna has been used. Not sure about Fry's.
Dan

Originally posted by DanKurts
Doug
One of my customers has the same grandfathered analog East/West coast feeds, but doesn't get the HD feeds. We did put up a HD dish, and he gets HD Discovery/Sho/HBO, etc. What does your bill say or what was their name for the program you pay for to get those?
Thanks
Dan

Dan,
Here's the details:

HBO and SHOWTIME - Charge $23.00

TOTAL CHOICE PLUS with Locals - Charge $42.99

Network: FOX from NYC/LA_* - Charge $2.25

Network: ABC from NYC/LA_* - Charge $2.25

Network: NBC from NYC/LA_* - Charge $2.25

Network: CBS from NYC/LA_* - Charge $2.25

DIRECTV DVR - Charge $4.99

Additional Receiver - Charge $4.99

Additional Receiver - Charge $4.99

HD Package - Charge $10.99

hope that helps...

I finally watched Desperate Housewives and Boston Legal. DH was okay (much better than the prior week), until the credits when it got really weird (robot sounding), but BL was impossible to watch. Had to go back to the Tivo for the analog broadcast.

Well, I can't get KOMO to return a call. I have tried for the past week to get ahold of their HDTV engineer, to no avail. Anyone else have luck?

I sent an email this morning, and still haven't gotten a response.

I did get a response many months ago to my complaint about their news bug which being bright white, burns in. They said they were in the process of changing it, but that was about 8 months ago. I've started watching KIRO news, just for a change of bug (theirs is almost as bad, but gold rather than white).

Originally posted by NHLFAN
Dan,
Here's the details:

HBO and SHOWTIME - Charge $23.00

TOTAL CHOICE PLUS with Locals - Charge $42.99

Network: FOX from NYC/LA_* - Charge $2.25

Network: ABC from NYC/LA_* - Charge $2.25

Network: NBC from NYC/LA_* - Charge $2.25

Network: CBS from NYC/LA_* - Charge $2.25

DIRECTV DVR - Charge $4.99

Additional Receiver - Charge $4.99

Additional Receiver - Charge $4.99

HD Package - Charge $10.99

hope that helps...

Thanks!
I'll get with him and figure out what he's mising.
And what's meant by the * above?
Dan

Did anyone else notice significant dropouts last night during NYPD Blue on KOMO-DT (OTA), especially in the last half of the program? Some of the freezes lasted 2-3 seconds, others were shorter. I am assuming that a picture freeze results from lack of ability to receive or interpret a signal for a period of time, i.e., the receiver freezes the last good picture until another comes along. Correct me if I am wrong here.

I seem to have frequent dropouts on KOMO-DT, and I have read here that others have seen the same type of problem. I would like to determine whether I have a unique reception problem or whether others are having the same problems at the same time.

In reading the Seattle Comcast thread, it seems like there are similar problems described there for cable users.

There are similar problems just four or five posts up. Desperate Housewives and Boston Legal are on KOMO.

BTW, I went to Fry's in Renton on Monday to buy a 512 MB Thumb drive and a software bundle. While there I checked their CM inventory. They only had one antenna in stock--I didn't check the model, but it appeared to be a large VHF model. They also didn't have the thumb drive in stock. I don't know why I go to that store--more often than not they are out of stock on whatever it is I want.

Originally posted by Budget_HT
Did anyone else notice significant dropouts last night during NYPD Blue on KOMO-DT (OTA), especially in the last half of the program? Some of the freezes lasted 2-3 seconds, others were shorter. I am assuming that a picture freeze results from lack of ability to receive or interpret a signal for a period of time, i.e., the receiver freezes the last good picture until another comes along. Correct me if I am wrong here.

I seem to have frequent dropouts on KOMO-DT, and I have read here that others have seen the same type of problem. I would like to determine whether I have a unique reception problem or whether others are having the same problems at the same time.

In reading the Seattle Comcast thread, it seems like there are similar problems described there for cable users.

Pretty sure it's not a reception or signal-related issue. I have solid signal on KOMO-DT, and the problem ONLY occurs on network HD DD5.1 broadcasts. Something is wrong with KOMO or ABC's network feed. Hopefully we can get an official update from KOMO soon.

I did get a reply from someone at Fisher Broadcasting last week. They acknowledged they were chasing something in the HD feed from national.

That said, LOST tonight had no problems. Hopefully they fixed it.

I did not see it with the samsung T-160. I did see it (a lot) with the HR10-250. Nationally people in markets saw similar behavior. Some receivers were fine, the 10-250 exposed it.

I am new to all this HD stuff but here are my questions. I Live on top of Capitol Hill very close to the towers and I am having difficultiesy getting consistent reception. I am using a dish 811 receiver and a SS for OTA reception for local digitals. I have at one time or another receiver all HD channels, but it varys greatly on the direction the antenna is pointed. Fox is the hardest to get. I kow that the towers are probablly really screwing up my reception. Does anyone have any suggestions to improve my situation?

Originally posted by aa-dvd
I am new to all this HD stuff but here are my questions. I Live on top of Capitol Hill very close to the towers and I am having difficultiesy getting consistent reception. I am using a dish 811 receiver and a SS for OTA reception for local digitals. I have at one time or another receiver all HD channels, but it varys greatly on the direction the antenna is pointed. Fox is the hardest to get. I kow that the towers are probablly really screwing up my reception. Does anyone have any suggestions to improve my situation?

I'm also up atop Capitol Hill, and also, for the most part, use a Silver Sensor. I use the pre-Zenith model, from back in the days when you had to import your own: http://www.antiference.co.uk/sensor/ (I've also had good luck with a ChannelMaster Allegro.)

I've found that the problem atop Capitol Hill is rarely signal strength, but, more often, overload and/or multipath. So, strangely, what works best is what, further out, often kills reception: keep your antenna near the floor, and keep your antenna away from outside walls. (I reliably get 4-*, 5-*, 7-1, 9-*, 11-1, 13-1, 16-1, 22-1, 28-*, 33-1, 44-1, 51-1 this way.)

Originally posted by aa-dvd
I am new to all this HD stuff but here are my questions. I Live on top of Capitol Hill very close to the towers and I am having difficultiesy getting consistent reception. I am using a dish 811 receiver and a SS for OTA reception for local digitals. I have at one time or another receiver all HD channels, but it varys greatly on the direction the antenna is pointed. Fox is the hardest to get. I kow that the towers are probablly really screwing up my reception. Does anyone have any suggestions to improve my situation?

You might have too much signal overloading your receiver. Try one of these variable attenuators from Radio Shack ....

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D678

Any update on KSTW/UPN's new antenna install?

Has anyone ever noticed that channel 11-1 goes blank during weekday afternoons? Is there a reason for this?

Originally posted by Joe Hendrix
Has anyone ever noticed that channel 11-1 goes blank during weekday afternoons? Is there a reason for this?

It could be related to the antenna construction work they're doing. Around November 1 they should be significantly increasing their transmitter power.

Updated the Puget Sound DTV FAQ for the first time since Feb. Please check for errors!

I updated the info on multicasting and HDTV recording and added a table of multicasted channels.

I will update when UPN upgrades their power output, too.

-Lance

You are missing info for KBTC, Tacoma, PBS, analog channel 28 (12 on some cable), digital channel 29. I don't have details, since they are transmitting from a site out of reach directionally from my fixed antenna, which already covers a wide stretch from Gold Mountain through Queen Anne and Capitol Hill to Tiger Mountain.

Originally posted by lkinley
Updated the Puget Sound DTV FAQ for the first time since Feb. Please check for errors!

I updated the info on multicasting and HDTV recording and added a table of multicasted channels.

I will update when UPN upgrades their power output, too.

-Lance
Lance,

Thanks for the update to the Puget Sound DTV FAQ. I have one question and one clarification.

1. Your doc says "Comcast is now carrying major local DTV stations.... rent an HD capable box or buy a "QAM capable DTV tuner". Do you have any idea which tuner(s) work with Comcast's local QAM signal, and do I need a CableCard to get this working? I don't get KCPQ (Fox) and a few other stations reliably via my terrestrial antenna and wouldn't mind a cheap backup plan like QAM tuning.

2. Along with HDTiVo, I feel it bears explicit mention that Media Center 2005 natively supports real-time viewing or recording of DTV streams through compatible PCI cards. I personally have two NTSC tuners and one ATSC tuner in my MCE box. While HDTiVo and MCE each have their pros and cons, one nice thing about a PC-based solution is the ease of being able to swap in bigger drives as necessary since, as you mention, HD streams consume a lot of GB/hr. And MCE doesn't involve a monthly charge for the guide data (relevant for those DTV stations whose programming exactly matches their analog counterpart).

Dan,

1. All you need is a QAM capable tuner. My LG 3100A box does this, but it will only get you the unencrypted channels (locals basically). Cablecard does not factor in for this as the channels I mention in the doc are in the clear. If you want the others, you will need a box from Comcast or a cablecard capable HD set.

2. Yes, I should put something about MCE in there.... but I'm bitter... :) It won't work with my HDTV Wonder card unless I install yet ANOTHER tuner card. I don't know why this is, but the only folks to get it to work also have another tuner card installed. MCE reports to me that I do not have a tuner card installed.

If someone can send me info on KBTC 28 multicasting, I will add it to the doc. I cannot receive this channel as I'm quite far away from that weak broadcast.

-Lance

Originally posted by lkinley

2. Yes, I should put something about MCE in there.... but I'm bitter... :) It won't work with my HDTV Wonder card unless I install yet ANOTHER tuner card. I don't know why this is, but the only folks to get it to work also have another tuner card installed. MCE reports to me that I do not have a tuner card installed.


Someone at my company got the ATI HDTV working with dual tuning (on MCE 2005) without a seperate tuner.

Here is the email he sent:

I have the ATI HDTV and I am only using that card to do NSTC and ATSC, I setup the NTSC guide first, after that I installed the SR-1 for MCE2005 and was able to see the DTV portion of it, setup that too and now I have a complete guide with working recordings of HDTV channels and Comcast Cable without a cable box running like a champ. I can even record ATSC while watching the cable.

I was using a ATI HDTV on the PCI slot and a NVidia 5600 on the AGP, since the Nvidia was choppy on the full screen HDTV, I changed for a ATI 9800 AIW Pro. Still have not connected anything on the 9800 besides the DVI monitor.


HTH,
Adrian

I would greaty appreciate it if someone could check out my address for HD reception:
16121 SE 113th PL
Renton, WA 98059

Thanks much!
-Adrian

Originally posted by dancook
Lance,

Thanks for the update to the Puget Sound DTV FAQ. I have one question and one clarification.

1. Your doc says "Comcast is now carrying major local DTV stations.... rent an HD capable box or buy a "QAM capable DTV tuner". Do you have any idea which tuner(s) work with Comcast's local QAM signal, and do I need a CableCard to get this working? I don't get KCPQ (Fox) and a few other stations reliably via my terrestrial antenna and wouldn't mind a cheap backup plan like QAM tuning.

2. Along with HDTiVo, I feel it bears explicit mention that Media Center 2005 natively supports real-time viewing or recording of DTV streams through compatible PCI cards. I personally have two NTSC tuners and one ATSC tuner in my MCE box. While HDTiVo and MCE each have their pros and cons, one nice thing about a PC-based solution is the ease of being able to swap in bigger drives as necessary since, as you mention, HD streams consume a lot of GB/hr. And MCE doesn't involve a monthly charge for the guide data (relevant for those DTV stations whose programming exactly matches their analog counterpart).

It sounds like you may be considering looking at recording OTA HD content that is rebroadcast as QAM by Comcast in MCE2005. I was just looking into this option, but it doesn't seem to be very clean yet.

This is from an email by someone at my company when I asked about doing this very same thing:

There are re-broadcasted in QAM, I can tune them (outside MCE) with my Fusion card, even though the ATI card technically supports QAM their software does not as such you wont be able to get them over cable with the ATI HDTV card.

As for the Fusion card, your mileage will vary; remember that:

1. Their software is not the greatest, and it will not work (for QAM) inside MCE.

2. It is sensitive to signal strength, I had to buy a powered splitter ($110) to be able to reliably tune these channels.

3. There is no support for encrypted signals (Discovery HD, HBO, etc). Trying to tune one of these may crash their software.


HTH!
-Adrian

Wow, your friend was lucky I guess....

My install has never been able to see the card beyond the device control panel. Media Center has claimed from day 1 that I don't have a card installed. I have all the latest drivers and updates, no dice.

-Lance

Originally posted by ahains
I would greaty appreciate it if someone could check out my address for HD reception:
16121 SE 113th PL
Renton, WA 98059

Thanks much!
-Adrian
Your LOS to QA hill looks poor. The Kennydale hill is blocking your signal. You would need a 100-foot tower to clear that hill.

You are are a great resource here, many thanks.
My address is 1205 East Seattle Street. Kent. 98030.

Doug

Originally posted by lkinley
.... but I'm bitter... :) It won't work with my HDTV Wonder card unless I install yet ANOTHER tuner card. I don't know why this is, but the only folks to get it to work also have another tuner card installed. MCE reports to me that I do not have a tuner card installed.

-Lance
The rumor on the net is that ATI is working on new drivers that are MCE certified and once installed will solve the problem. Who knows how long it will take them - check ATI.COM once a week...

Originally posted by Milt99
You are are a great resource here, many thanks.
My address is 1205 East Seattle Street. Kent. 98030.

Doug
I think you are asking for a Line-Of-Sight check, not coordinates. But in either case here are both: lat=N47.37774 lon=W122.21875
LOS looks good. You're on a 250-foot plateau with nothing in the way except the usual (trees, buildings, seagulls, gnats and bats).

Ugh. Komo is driving me NUTS!

I wish they could fix the re-broadcast of the national feed. LOST was a mess in HD, and they're running it a minute past 9, which conflicts with other stuff.

It's not just the HR10-250, either. Friend of mine has a built in tuner, has similar problems.

Anyone else seeing this too?

Damn gnats!
Thanks.

Originally posted by mikeg_ms
Ugh. Komo is driving me NUTS!

I wish they could fix the re-broadcast of the national feed. LOST was a mess in HD, and they're running it a minute past 9, which conflicts with other stuff.

It's not just the HR10-250, either. Friend of mine has a built in tuner, has similar problems.

Anyone else seeing this too?

Yep, we're seeing it on our HDTiVo. It's gotten to the point where my wife won't even record HD off ABC now, she records the SD version instead.

I had lots of audio dropouts on LOST but video was OK (via OTA). This seems to be the usual for network broadcasts. But hey, "they're working on it"...

Originally posted by quarque
I had lots of audio dropouts on LOST but video was OK (via OTA). This seems to be the usual for network broadcasts. But hey, "they're working on it"...

The audio dropouts and video freezes with KOMO-DT seem to be worse on the HR10-250 HD DirecTivo than stand-alone HDTV receivers. The engineers at KOMO are aware of the problems and are indeed "working on it". I hope they fix it soon.

I have an internal HD OTA tuner on my Panasonic, and experienced the audio dropouts and video freezes on KOMO-DT last night as well.

So far, I've only seen one episode of LOST without the audio and video problems in HD. It seems that KING and KIRO have been able to solve their problems. What's up with KOMO?

I can now receive KSTW-DT (UPN11) in Mill Creek! Looks like they've successfully upgraded their antenna and raised their transmitter power. If you haven't been able to receive KSTW-DT before, give it a try now.

Same here in Yelm.

Originally posted by jskiffington
Thanks Dan (and quarque) for all your help. I'm planning on moving towards the beginning of November, so I'll let you all know how it goes!

So I've moved in to Loyal Heights and mounted my antenna yesterday. I ended up getting a 4228 since no one seemed to have the 4221. At any rate, I'm getting every station with the exception of KOMO. I find this a bit odd, since I'm getting KIRO, KING, and KSTW without any problem, and as I understand it these are all on the same tower.

Tomorrow I'm going to go back on the roof to rotate the antenna a little bit to the east. Other than that, does anyone have any ideas to help me pick up KOMO? I need to watch the Colts and Vikings on Monday night!!! =)

Quarque

If you remember where I'm located, just curious as to whether it would be feasible for me to get voom over here (sw of Bremerton)? I believe their bird is at like 67 degrees (east)? Thanks again for your support.

Another request for Quarque:

I need an LOS check. I have a very bad feeling that I'm not going to be able to get OTA HD but I thought I'd check.

My address is

16613 NE 46th St.
Redmond, WA 98052

antennaweb says I'm just fine for all the OTA stations, but I don't believe it because I live down a hill. It is a long sloping hill, but it is a hill nonetheless.

Originally posted by Baldone01
Quarque

If you remember where I'm located, just curious as to whether it would be feasible for me to get voom over here (sw of Bremerton)? I believe their bird is at like 67 degrees (east)? Thanks again for your support.

It'll be a challenge. Their satellite is only 15-deg above the horizon for us, so you need to have a real clear shot with no trees or other obstructions.

Originally posted by JamesAHall
Another request for Quarque:

I need an LOS check. I have a very bad feeling that I'm not going to be able to get OTA HD but I thought I'd check.

My address is

16613 NE 46th St.
Redmond, WA 98052

antennaweb says I'm just fine for all the OTA stations, but I don't believe it because I live down a hill. It is a long sloping hill, but it is a hill nonetheless.
I'm afraid you are SOL. Like I have said before, antennaweb knows nothing about terrain. It only knows distance and direction. You are unfortunately on the wrong side of that hill. Your elevation is about 150 feet and that hill tops out at 540 feet. You would need a 150 foot tower to get over it. This is exactly why I want to see UHF-DT repeaters in hilly areas like ours.

Originally posted by Baldone01
Quarque

If you remember where I'm located, just curious as to whether it would be feasible for me to get voom over here (sw of Bremerton)? I believe their bird is at like 67 degrees (east)? Thanks again for your support.
At 15 degrees elevation you have no hills to worry about. If you can get around any trees when facing SE you should do OK.

Originally posted by jskiffington
So I've moved in to Loyal Heights and mounted my antenna yesterday. I ended up getting a 4228 since no one seemed to have the 4221. At any rate, I'm getting every station with the exception of KOMO. I find this a bit odd, since I'm getting KIRO, KING, and KSTW without any problem, and as I understand it these are all on the same tower.

Tomorrow I'm going to go back on the roof to rotate the antenna a little bit to the east. Other than that, does anyone have any ideas to help me pick up KOMO? I need to watch the Colts and Vikings on Monday night!!! =)
I can think of at least two possibilities for KOMO. One is that the radiation pattern for the KOMO signal falls off in strength very quickly as you start going west of due north. The other (more likely?) cause is a strong reflection of KOMO's signal. If different antenna orientations don't help then try moving the antenna to different places. You might experiment with a variable attenuator first to see if that does anything. What does the signal meter on your receiver show for KOMO versus other stations?

I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada. Is there an outdoor antenna that I would be able to use to pickup HDTV OTA broadcasts from Seattle's KOMO, KING, KONG & KIRO? Or am I just too far :(

I seem to have lost KIRO-DT feed this morning. Can anyone confirm whether or not KIRO is having problems.

I have called their number, but of course they are not open.

Thanks in advance,

Mattammo

Originally posted by Mattammo
I seem to have lost KIRO-DT feed this morning. Can anyone confirm whether or not KIRO is having problems.

I have called their number, but of course they are not open.

Thanks in advance,

Mattammo
It's coming in just fine in Mill Creek.

Originally posted by f13dfx
I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada. Is there an outdoor antenna that I would be able to use to pickup HDTV OTA broadcasts from Seattle's KOMO, KING, KONG & KIRO? Or am I just too far :(

With a good enough antenna and sensitive enough tuner, you might be able to pull in something, but it's not going to be easy. The only Vancouver station I've ever received reliably in Seattle was CKVU, and that was, of course, analog over VHF. (In addition to CBUT on cable, of course.)

Shaw Vancouver carries KOMO-DT, KIRO-DT, KING-DT, and KSPS-DT on channels 303, 304, 305, 306, as well. I'd likely be easier than OTA, from that distance.

Thanks litzdog, It just came back about 10 minutes ago!

Mattammo

I'm afraid you are SOL. Like I have said before, antennaweb knows nothing about terrain. It only knows distance and direction. You are unfortunately on the wrong side of that hill. Your elevation is about 150 feet and that hill tops out at 540 feet. You would need a 150 foot tower to get over it. This is exactly why I want to see UHF-DT repeaters in hilly areas like ours.

Thanks Quarque. So I basically have no shot, no matter what equipment I buy huh?

I guess I'll have to wait for DirecTV to start carrying the local channels on HD. Hopefully that will happen sometime soon.

Several of the Seattle HDTV stations are currently available on Bell ExpressVu satellite from Canada, as are comparable stations from Boston. While BEV is not officially available in the US, many people subscribe through brokers that make the services available in the US. BEV uses separate versions of the same equipment as Dish satellite (though they are the same basic hardware, the Dish and BEV units are NOT interchangeable).

You could do a search in the forum to find more details.

The peson asking about Seattle stations in Vancouver, BC, could find BEV as an acceptable satellite-based solution, perhaps.

Originally posted by jskiffington
So I've moved in to Loyal Heights and mounted my antenna yesterday. I ended up getting a 4228 since no one seemed to have the 4221. At any rate, I'm getting every station with the exception of KOMO. I find this a bit odd, since I'm getting KIRO, KING, and KSTW without any problem, and as I understand it these are all on the same tower.

Tomorrow I'm going to go back on the roof to rotate the antenna a little bit to the east. Other than that, does anyone have any ideas to help me pick up KOMO? I need to watch the Colts and Vikings on Monday night!!! =)

jskiffington
You have WAY tooo much antenna for there. It's okay, though, you just need to knock it down. Get the RatShack 20db adjustable attenuator, set it for max (20db) and then see what you get. KOMO doesn't really drop off at all in the Ballard area. Also check that all the bow ties are evenly spaced and are about the same angles, the silver wires that connect the bowties together are are not too close to the mast and aren't touching each other or the mast, and that the balun that connects to the antenna doesn't have twisted leads. Twisting wires together, like speaker or phone wire, is how you cancel direct pickup at lower frequencies, which you have a lot of there, but if you get it too tight you can actually create a trap and completely cancel a TV channel. It's best to make sure the wires between the screws on the antenna and where they go into the black balun are parallel as much as possible, no twists. Tie off the coax to the back plane (grid) so it can't twist when you move it around.
Let us know what happens.
Dan

Originally posted by Budget_HT
Several of the Seattle HDTV stations are currently available on Bell ExpressVu satellite from Canada, as are comparable stations from Boston. While BEV is not officially available in the US, many people subscribe through brokers that make the services available in the US. BEV uses separate versions of the same equipment as Dish satellite (though they are the same basic hardware, the Dish and BEV units are NOT interchangeable).

You could do a search in the forum to find more details.

The peson asking about Seattle stations in Vancouver, BC, could find BEV as an acceptable satellite-based solution, perhaps.



I installed one of these for a customer last summer. The birds were at 88 and 92 degrees, I think, and a little lower, about 26 degrees. They use DISH HD antennas and receivers, reprogrammed and relabled for BEV. He got ABC, NBC, CBS and PBS from Seattle and the same from Boston, so a total of 8 stations. Of course, there was a lot more Canadian channels, which carried some US programs. Setup was just like satellite here. He used an address broker, that gave him a Canadian mailing address for the bill, wasn't very much at all, and the total cost was around the $50-60/mo (US) range.
Dan

Hey Dan, they need you at the Antenna spot...
Tigerbinx quit on election day (party? depression? or just a vacation...) and now we're short a guru...
So please drop in there every now and then.
Thank you.

Well, I posted a couple days ago that it looked like KSTW-DT had increased their power because I could now pick them up great in Mill Creek. Before I received almost no signal at all. Well, tonight it seems they've knocked their signal down again. I hope they're just adjusting things. Anyone else notice this?

I went up to the media room at around 10pm last night to see if it was there and it was... 70-80% on the lame-o built in signal meter. Didn't watch for much more than a couple of minutes, it may have dropped down by the time you looked.

-Lance

Originally posted by Nederlander
Hey Dan, they need you at the Antenna spot...
Tigerbinx quit on election day (party? depression? or just a vacation...) and now we're short a guru...
So please drop in there every now and then.
Thank you.

Ned
Thanks, will do. PM'd ya, too.
Dan

Just ordered a 4221 and my Panasonic PT-50LCX63 is being delivered on Friday.....hopefully it's a smooth installation and I'm watching HD in West Seattle this weekend. Can't wait!

DanKurts and quarque seemed optimistic of my chances with a 4221 but I'll post up my results by Sunday.

I've been lurking here for a while but finally jumped on the HDTV bandwagon and now I need some assistance with OTA reception :)

I live in Belltown at 2601 Western Ave (98121). I've checked out antennaweb and I know where the antennas are, and I don't really have LOS to anything except Bremerton. I'm on the 5th floor of a multi-story building, so it's relatively limited what I can do with external antennae (though I do have a balcony facing Western Ave if that would help). What would be the ideal antenna for this situation?

My STB is a Samsung SIR-T165, and so far I've got 2 antennas to play with: a Zenith Silver Sensor and a RadioShack 15-1880. With the Zenith, I've been able to clearly tune in 4/5/7 from one location, and 13 from another location. Clearly it's a directional antenna and since I'm in the middle of all the towers, I think I'm stuck having to move it around to get different channels. Or is there a better way?

The RadioShack so far hasn't been much better, but I haven't experimented with it as much. I was thinking that the screen might help get rid of multipath, which is most likely the biggest issue for me. Most likely I just haven't found the right orientation for it and combination of gain settings. Any tips for dealing with this antenna?

I was also thinking of purchasing a DB2 from antennasdirect, but I don't think I'll be able to return this as easily if it doesn't work, so I'd like to get some opinions on whether you think this might help my reception. It looks to have a more omnidirectional spread than the two I have now. I'm also having a little trouble picking up the Capitol Hill antennas, but that might just be due to the fact that I haven't found the right placement yet (I had them early on when I was testing, but haven't been able to get them back).

Any insight is appreciated! Thanks!

So I submitted a waiver via DirectTV for HD since there is not a chance in hell I can get anything OTA. I live in Seattle, the Mt Baker neighborhood which is just south of I-90 couple blocks up from the lake.

I checked the decisionmark website which the King5 informed me they use to determine eligibility. It says I have GradeA quality which is impossible.

Anyone done the DirecTV waiver dance with King and Kiro and won?

Duanec,

Not an answer to your question, but a reminder that if you have Comcast Internet you can add Comcast HD for about $7 a month (12.95 for limited basic, $4.95 for the HD box, less $10 credit for having cable Internet). Unfortunately, they still don't have KIRO, but it would solve your problem for the other locals.

Originally posted by duanec
So I submitted a waiver via DirectTV for HD since there is not a chance in hell I can get anything OTA. I live in Seattle, the Mt Baker neighborhood which is just south of I-90 couple blocks up from the lake.

I checked the decisionmark website which the King5 informed me they use to determine eligibility. It says I have GradeA quality which is impossible.

Anyone done the DirecTV waiver dance with King and Kiro and won?

Based on many posts here and in the DirecTV forums, you won't have any luck getting waivers with the Seattle locals. But are you sure that you can't get pick up HDTV OTA from your location? People much further away from Seattle are able to receive at least some of the Seattle area stations.

Originally posted by litzdog911
Based on many posts here and in the DirecTV forums, you won't have any luck getting waivers with the Seattle locals. But are you sure that you can't get pick up HDTV OTA from your location? People much further away from Seattle are able to receive at least some of the Seattle area stations.

I suspect he's behind the hill, looking out over Lake Washington. Not line of sight at all to 4, 5, 7 or 13. Might be for 9 and 11.

I am on the downslope of a hill. If you know where the hydro races are I'm a couple blocks up from there.

King5 told me they don't offer the HD waivers right now but do offer analog. Which if you get the analog your set.

I just gotta figure out how to get them to understand their decisionmark application doesn't use topology for determination.

Or I could just "move" to North Bend for a while ;)

Originally posted by lkinley
If someone can send me info on KBTC 28 multicasting, I will add it to the doc. I cannot receive this channel as I'm quite far away from that weak broadcast.

I meant to answer this a week or two ago, but just now got 'round to it:

28-1 KBTC (480i)
28-2 PBS You (480i)
28-3 Annenberg/CPB Channel (480i)
28-4 PBS You (480i)

28-1 was, for several months, in stretched 480p.
28-4 formerly carried PBS Kids, as also seen on 9-2.

Originally posted by duanec
Or I could just "move" to North Bend for a while ;)
better make it Wenatchee just to make sure...

better make it Wenatchee just to make sure.....

You're cruel.

anyone else having the TERRIBLE drop outs on ABC - Private Ryan?

Originally posted by weebling1
anyone else having the TERRIBLE drop outs on ABC - Private Ryan?
I'm having them and I'm using cable. I just checked in here to see if it was over the air too. I guess that answers my question. All these dropouts have been KOMO's fault, unless it's ABC, but I doubt that.

Originally posted by duanec
So I submitted a waiver via DirectTV for HD since there is not a chance in hell I can get anything OTA. I live in Seattle, the Mt Baker neighborhood which is just south of I-90 couple blocks up from the lake.

I checked the decisionmark website which the King5 informed me they use to determine eligibility. It says I have GradeA quality which is impossible.

Anyone done the DirecTV waiver dance with King and Kiro and won?

duanec
All the people I've talked to, and some here on the forum, all have one thing in common. They got their waivers years ago, or a few were very lucky and got the right people to sign them, but trying to do it now is about like hitting the lottery (In which case you could afford to move!). But there's one thing I think you're missing. The Direct HD is New York and LA, not local Seattle. Also, the East/West coast analog feeds, which was a way to get Seattle local analog before they were on satellite, was another way that some people are upgrading to these HD feeds. Again, these people had to get a waiver for that. I have several customers that would like to get just the analog East/West feeds, but they won't even give those out without the waiver now. I had one customer that was right next door to one that did have the waiver, same address except for house number being a few digits higher, didn't cut it. I can't see the logic, and neither did the 2nd and 3rd level Direct people I talked to, but that's the rules they have to play with. If you have it already, you're grandfathered in and very lucky. I even had a few CEO's with a lot of business pull try to talk them into it, going for their high level opposites, but no go.
I think the best way is to just pay Comcast, if you have the internet option, as it would probably cost about the same if you got it on Direct, give or take. I know it's not a pretty way to do it, but you get the HD, which makes it all worth it when you start watching it! And if you're looking for the Tivo style cable box, some cable installers said they were getting them in at the end of the month in the Tacoma area, which would probably mean Puget Sound in general. Don't know how they stack up against the Direct Tivo, but there's another option.

Dan

Originally posted by Roto
All these dropouts have been KOMO's fault, unless it's ABC, but I doubt that.

I was able to find mention (in these forums and by Google) of similar problems all three of the major market west coast affiliates (KGTV, KATU, KOMO), but not at either of the major market O&Os (KABC, KGO). Curious.

Just wanted to report that I'm pulling in everything except for the WB on my 4221 and Panasonic built-in tuner in West Seattle. I'm sure I could have gotten the WB with a bit more effort--but I've never watched anything on that channel and even if it's in HD I think I'll live.

Between that and the DirecTV HD package, should be more than enough....for now.

Edit: I'm experiencing the same dropouts on KOMO OTA...unwatchable.

A question for the antenna guys; I have a CM 3671 on top of my two story house in Port Townsend with a clear shot (according to quark) to the Seattle towers. I have been using this antenna to receive digital programming successfully for over five years. There was not much on back when I started. There were not many choices for antennas either. I receive all the local channels except KOMO. Channel 4 has never come in well here, even in analog. I was considering getting a dedicated UHF antenna like the CM 4228 or Dans' favorite the 4248 and adding an amplifier. My question is about the Yagi portion of my antenna. It is huge! Is the 4248 Yagi just the same as the front part of my existing antenna? If it is different would it help me get KOMO or am I just in a dead part of their peanut shaped radiation pattern?. Thanks, Steve

Originally posted by bellbuoy
A question for the antenna guys; I have a CM 3671 on top of my two story house in Port Townsend with a clear shot (according to quark) to the Seattle towers. I have been using this antenna to receive digital programming successfully for over five years. There was not much on back when I started. There were not many choices for antennas either. I receive all the local channels except KOMO. Channel 4 has never come in well here, even in analog. I was considering getting a dedicated UHF antenna like the CM 4228 or Dans' favorite the 4248 and adding an amplifier. My question is about the Yagi portion of my antenna. It is huge! Is the 4248 Yagi just the same as the front part of my existing antenna? If it is different would it help me get KOMO or am I just in a dead part of their peanut shaped radiation pattern?. Thanks, Steve

bellbouy
The 4248 is a little different from the front half of the 3671 in reception. It might be enough to make the difference, and use a 7775 preamp, too. If you only use the 3671 for HD, then remove it while testing the new antenna. Channel 4 pattern is not peanut shaped, more like the letter D, with the weakest part to the west. It does have lower power in your direction, but should still have enough power for your site. Ch7 is only one UHF channel higher than 4, and almost has the same location and power. If there is still a problem with 4, it's more likely something near by, like trees or a hill.
Dan

...will pay cash or trade for isf calibration...meet a mariner player!..
...the situation so far...i can get 4-1 & 4-2 strong...at ANY direction i aim the deepfringe uhf i'm using...lots of trees no other signals period. the client wants ota hd period...so up we go...i think i'll ues a 8 bay bow tie...
robb

206-328-5526

I just checked on channel 4-1 to see what the Harry Potter movie looked like and noticed all the dialog was coming out of my Left surround speaker. It was not doing this on any of the other channels broadcasting in DD 5.1.
Did anyone else experience this? Is this a KOMO thing or what?
From out in the fringes of Yelm
Radtek

Originally posted by isfmd
...will pay cash or trade for isf calibration...meet a mariner player!..
...the situation so far...i can get 4-1 & 4-2 strong...at ANY direction i aim the deepfringe uhf i'm using...lots of trees no other signals period. the client wants ota hd period...so up we go...i think i'll ues a 8 bay bow tie...
robb

206-328-5526

isfmd
I think you might be getting ahead of yourself. If you CAN get 4 like that, you obviously have plenty of signal, you're just fighting something close to you, a tree, house, etc. Channels 4-5-7-16 are all within a few blocks of each other on Queen Anne, so you should have a fair shot at them. I would suggest moving the antenna to a different location. As little as a foot in any direction could make all the difference. What's your address and I'll check it out.
Dan

Originally posted by radtek
I just checked on channel 4-1 to see what the Harry Potter movie looked like and noticed all the dialog was coming out of my Left surround speaker. It was not doing this on any of the other channels broadcasting in DD 5.1.
Did anyone else experience this? Is this a KOMO thing or what?
From out in the fringes of Yelm
Radtek

Yeah, something is really messed up with KOMO-DT's audio .... we tried watching "8 Simple Rules" Friday evening and the audio was the same way .... mostly coming from the left rear speaker. Hope they fix it soon!

.....167ave NE
& NE 132nd st...

thanx dan

robb

Same audio problem from KOMO-DT for me--dialogue in left surround. They had this problem before--almost two years ago. I don't recall anyone explaining the cause, but they did fix it. IIRC, it was coming in to KOMO that way from the network then.

The audio on the news later was fine. It was DD 2.0 with the matrix surround flag turned oon.

Hi-
I'm in Redmond and just set up a MCE2005 box with a HDTV tuner. I have an attic antenna that was mounted by a previous owner. Anyhow, I get a strong signal for ABC, CBS, and FOX HD stations, but I get nothing for NBC (KING or KONG). I noticed from the FAQ that NBC has a different pattern for their directional broadcast... is this why I don't get them? Is it likely that if I play around with the antenna that I could conjure up NBC? Or, is the location of the broadcast tower different enough that just getting ABC/CBS does not imply NBC should be within my grasp?

Thanks for any insight!

Just an update on reception in the Yelm area. Also forum junkie if you read this let me know how its working for you. I had some problems getting reception from every thing except 13-1 and 22-1. The 5-1 channel was hit or miss mostly miss. 4-1 and 7-1 would not come in at all. This was with 25 feet of mast from the ground, a 4228 and a 7775 amp. I added 10 more feet to the mast and now with it angled around 5 degrees northeast I am able to get 4-1 most of the time, 13-1 of course ( could probably get that with a coat hanger) 5-1 50% of the time, 11-1, 28-1, I still do not get 7-1 to lock in at all (very weak signal)
This is most likely the best it will be until DT signals are improved to actually work well in the Puget sound area. Anyone else in the Yelm area having any success with OTA?
Radtek

Radtek -where I had put my stacked 4228's I was pulling in 13-1 at about 92, all the 28's and 9's in the 80's 33-1 in the 70's --- 4,5,7 and 11 were about 40% of the time watchable usually in the 50' to 60's on the meter I had absolutetly no 22 or 16. I then move my setup straight back to the back side of my house which put me more in the trees but changed the angle I had to go through the BPA towers at. That gave me me a solid reading for 13 in the 90's I now got both 22 and 16 in the 70's - the 28's and 9's were still solid in the 80's 4 and 11 were both now solid and in the 60's. - 5 is sometimes solid in the 60's but still only about 40% of the time. One down note was the 7 is seldom ever there anymore and is one I would really like to have. I lost 33-1 by moving the antenna but don't watch it anyway. I can pull 33 in with a solid 90 onthe meter it I adjust the antenna a little but that causes me to lose some of those I do want. I belive multipath off the BPA tower may be killing 7-1 because if I just watch the meter for a few minutes both OTA signals will have spikes all the way to the full 100 mark on 7. I even tried the rat shack attenuator some have mentioned but it had 0 effect either way. Next would be another antenna move to try and miss the tower but that involves cutting down a couple more trees. And I'm catching hell for not having started the kitchen remodel so not sure when I might get them cut. Not everyone here seems to have the same priorities.

WOW Radtek - went to check after my last note - don't know what effect that rain is having on the multipath but every dang channel is hitting in the 90's tonight over here. Except 12-1 but then pulling in Blaine would be a hell of a long shot.

Originally posted by isfmd
.....167ave NE
& NE 132nd st...

thanx dan

robb

robb
Just north of downtown Redmond, and east up the hill from 202, right?
Great location height wise, but lots-O-trees. Done jobs all around there with good results. Not perfect, but seen worse. Have you double checked the little things, like replace the balun, checked for a staple in the wire that might not have gone through the cable, but missed the wall and curled back into the cable on the back side where you can't see it? I know it sounds silly, because 4 comes in, but I've seen goofy things like that.
Dan

Originally posted by PhileFriendly
Hi-
I'm in Redmond and just set up a MCE2005 box with a HDTV tuner. I have an attic antenna that was mounted by a previous owner. Anyhow, I get a strong signal for ABC, CBS, and FOX HD stations, but I get nothing for NBC (KING or KONG). I noticed from the FAQ that NBC has a different pattern for their directional broadcast... is this why I don't get them? Is it likely that if I play around with the antenna that I could conjure up NBC? Or, is the location of the broadcast tower different enough that just getting ABC/CBS does not imply NBC should be within my grasp?

Thanks for any insight!

PhileFriendly
It's most likely a combination of being in the attic and maybe not that swift an antenna and/or install. 4-5-7-16 all are only a few blocks apart. 5 is weaker in that direction, and KONG is weak anyway, being on backup transmitter, so that's kind of normal for there. Move it outside and see what happens.
Dan

Hey forum junkie, I to am having fine reception tonight. I even have locked in fine to 7-1! It always seems better here the crapier the weather? I have only the one spot to set my attenna and find it is very sensitive to any directional adjustment east or west. Gain one and lose another. I seem to have found the only sweet spot I can get. Do you run a amp with the stack? Did the stack help any compared to a single 4228? Anyway enjoy the rain.
Radtek

....i am at starwood....124th exit off 405... east .through totem lake and across the valley....

thanx again

robb

Just to check in on what I was reporting a few weeks ago--I decided not to try a UHF only antenna. Instead what I did was used the VHF portion of the antenna to aim it better, by using an analog station. It's now aimed slightly different than before, and so far the results seem much better. I'm hoping some bad weather today will give me some good testing. I already checked it out this morning when there was bad whether over KCPQs antenna area, and it was fine--but that's not related to the directional issue directly since the antenna is not aimed that direction. Anyway, even with the heavy rain over there, the KCPQ picture was perfect and the signal rating was at 98-100 (which is my strongest channel despite the fact the antenna is not aimed that direction).

Thus, I guess my point is that aiming is a bit easier with analog than with digital, since with digital you get a picture at a wide range of different angles, and picking the best one by signal strength was difficult for me. With an analog signal it's easier to see the difference in the picture.

But again, I'm hoping for better tests with the weather today--it's pretty rainy and windy in places. Assuming it passes today, however, I might still need to wait for a complete test when the leaves are back on the trees.

My contact at KOMO just told me that there have been a few improvements put in place today so LOST should be better if things are working properly. If you watch it tonight, post your results since I think it is a DD5.1 broadcast.

Originally posted by quarque
My contact at KOMO just told me that there have been a few improvements put in place today so LOST should be better if things are working properly. If you watch it tonight, post your results since I think it is a DD5.1 broadcast.

Let's hope so!

ooh! oooh! I'm crossing my fingers. I Tivo'd LOST haven't had a chance to get to it. Would be REALLY nice if it worked.

I watched LOST last night. A couple minutes into it, I remember a small hiccup. I think the rest of the show went off without a hitch. Can't vouch for the commercials, since I mute them out.

First time posting on this topic. I live in the Haller Lake area of North Seattle (137th Street and Corliss Ave N), and am a DTV subscriber. I ordered & received the Samsung 360 HD receiver in preparation for getting my DLP front-projector next month, and got the Winegard GS-1000 Sensar for OTA.

When the installer came out, he told me I should go ahead and sell the antenna, as there's no way I'll pick up any HDTV signal. Seemed a little cynical to me, so I'm wondering if I'm in a bad reception area, the antenna just plain sucks, or if the guy was feeding me a line.

Any insight would be appreciated, since I'm looking forward to trying out some OTA HD while the Seahawks continue their run at second place in the division. ;)

Thanks in advance,

FWIW, the only major obstacle I can think of between me and Queen Anne is Phinney Ridge...

Hey Radtek - first chance to get back to you. Stacking the two 4228's gave me just a little more signal. It made it possible to keep 4 and 11 steady with no dropouts and yes I'm using an amp with them. Tied them together with a 2-way splitter before going into the amp. That also allowed me to ground the splitter hoping to have less noise going in to the amp. Take a look at YCOM's new OTA tower next time you go through Yelm. Looks like they stacked 8 Yagi's. Since theirs is a professional install and they chose Yagi"S I thinking maybe I should have tried them instead of the 4228's. Heck --- For the weight of the 4228's I probably could have stacked 4 Yagi's. Still don't know why the reception was so good on Sunday. I know the rain usually gives me a little gain but it has rained before and after and I have never had every station max out before like that. It's not likely that all of them would have been testing more signal at the same time but whatever it was - I wish it would come back.

Originally posted by Fartnokker
First time posting on this topic. I live in the Haller Lake area of North Seattle (137th Street and Corliss Ave N), and am a DTV subscriber. I ordered & received the Samsung 360 HD receiver in preparation for getting my DLP front-projector next month, and got the Winegard GS-1000 Sensar for OTA.

When the installer came out, he told me I should go ahead and sell the antenna, as there's no way I'll pick up any HDTV signal. Seemed a little cynical to me, so I'm wondering if I'm in a bad reception area, the antenna just plain sucks, or if the guy was feeding me a line.

Any insight would be appreciated, since I'm looking forward to trying out some OTA HD while the Seahawks continue their run at second place in the division. ;)

Thanks in advance,
He was not kidding - the GS-1000 is crap. It probably would pick up some stations but there are much better antennas out there. One of the more popular antennas for your sort of range is the Channel Master 4221. It has a wide reception lobe that could probably get you CH13 in Bremerton along with the Seattle stations using a single orientation (SSW). Do you have any trees to the south? I did a topo plot from your location and you are on a nice high spot (460 feet) and there are no hills in your way. Should be an easy install with an antenna on the roof. Good luck!

nope, still tons of problems with KOMO on the HR10-250

Originally posted by Fartnokker
First time posting on this topic. I live in the Haller Lake area of North Seattle (137th Street and Corliss Ave N), and am a DTV subscriber. I ordered & received the Samsung 360 HD receiver in preparation for getting my DLP front-projector next month, and got the Winegard GS-1000 Sensar for OTA.

When the installer came out, he told me I should go ahead and sell the antenna, as there's no way I'll pick up any HDTV signal. Seemed a little cynical to me, so I'm wondering if I'm in a bad reception area, the antenna just plain sucks, or if the guy was feeding me a line.

Any insight would be appreciated, since I'm looking forward to trying out some OTA HD while the Seahawks continue their run at second place in the division. ;)

Thanks in advance,

Danny
Have done a dozen within a 6 block radius around around you. The trees are the only problem. Lots of signal, not too much for a 4221, but it gets sensitive about where you mount it. Definitely has to be outside. Aiming it is not a big deal, just point it somewhere from about 30 degrees either side of due south, or straight down Corliss. You have to thread your way through the trees, so patience is the key to finding that right spot.
Dan

Larry, I sent you a PM for a line-of-sight plot, but posting here as well:
Redmond, WA 98052, nearest intersection is NE 109th St. and 159th Ave NE.

Thanks!
Jason

Thanks, guys. I've got a pretty clear shot to the South, and my house is a fairly tall 2-story, so luck might be on my side. I should've done more research on it before I got it, but...

When I bought this house a couple of months ago, I didn't realize that Comcast considered it "unservicable" since it is on a private cul-de-sac and 300 or so feet from their nearest line. Otherwise, I'd just be pulling in the HDTV signal via the STB. While the STB digital signal may not necessarily be "better," it certainly is more convenient!

I'll be taking a crack at making this thing work. Thanks for the tips!

Originally posted by CoolCanuck
Larry, I sent you a PM for a line-of-sight plot, but posting here as well:
Redmond, WA 98052, nearest intersection is NE 109th St. and 159th Ave NE.

Thanks!
Jason

Jason
If you're not too buried in the trees, or you can see across the valley to the SW, you should be fine.
Dan

could I get hooked up with a line of sight check for 26028 42nd ave s kent, wa 98032

thanks

Originally posted by mike_somd
could I get hooked up with a line of sight check for 26028 42nd ave s kent, wa 98032

thanks
your elevation is about 300 feet but 1/4 mile to the north is a hill of about 450 feet blocking your path to the Seattle towers. CH13 in Bremerton looks OK going towards the NW. I doubt you want to go OTA for one (network) station - consider cable or dish.

Quarque - I know we keep you busy on here but when you get the chance could you look at how my son's chances are in Puyallup. I would like to get him set up with HDTV. The nearest intersection would be -- Shaw Rd. and 31st in Puyallup. Thank You

Originally posted by forum junkie
Quarque - I know we keep you busy on here but when you get the chance could you look at how my son's chances are in Puyallup. I would like to get him set up with HDTV. The nearest intersection would be -- Shaw Rd. and 31st in Puyallup. Thank You
there is a little hill to the north but if you go with a roof-mount antenna it should be no problem.

Well, the ABC station developed an interesting new sound problem last night. The last 10 minutes of Boston Legal lost the vocal channel on the sound feed. The sound effects and music were there, just the vocal tracks were missing.

Luckily I was backup-recording an analog copy off their SD channel just in case something like this happened.

I can't believe how many problems they've had on their OTA digital feed, and how they keep coming. Just goes to show you what a small percentage of viewers must have digital at this point. I certainly couldn't imagine them letting "technical difficulties" continue for months on end on their primary channel.

Originally posted by dennya
Well, the ABC station developed an interesting new sound problem last night. The last 10 minutes of Boston Legal lost the vocal channel on the sound feed. The sound effects and music were there, just the vocal tracks were missing.

Luckily I was backup-recording an analog copy off their SD channel just in case something like this happened.

I can't believe how many problems they've had on their OTA digital feed, and how they keep coming. Just goes to show you what a small percentage of viewers must have digital at this point. I certainly couldn't imagine them letting "technical difficulties" continue for months on end on their primary channel.

Yeah, it's getting really old. Last night's "Desperate Housewives" started out in standard definition without DD5.1, then switched to HiDef with DD5.1 after about 7 minutes. But the DD5.1 sound was very "diffuse" without a strong vocal center channel.

At least the annoying dropouts and freezes seem to be gone.

I also noticed the same problems on "Desperate Housewives". They also seem to run into problem when they switch to commercials, and try playing them through standard Dolby, rather then DD5.1 . I was watching CBS earlier in the day (the Seahawks game), and the kept everything (commercials and the game) on DD5.1 and didn't have a problem. Why does ABC think they need to switch back and forth on the audio stream?

Originally posted by quarque
your elevation is about 300 feet but 1/4 mile to the north is a hill of about 450 feet blocking your path to the Seattle towers. CH13 in Bremerton looks OK going towards the NW. I doubt you want to go OTA for one (network) station - consider cable or dish.

Q
You forgot to tell him he'll also get the Shopping Channels in Hi-Def! I'm sure that's what he really wanted anyway... nudge-nudge....
Before there was cable there, we used to use the 3617 ChannelMaster on installs, as high as possible, and you would get a nice ghosty picture, but without it, nothing. It might have helped some since they created the park up the hill, but it's still going to be very tough.
Dan

Originally posted by dennya
...the ABC station developed an interesting new sound problem last night. The last 10 minutes of Boston Legal lost the vocal channel on the sound feed. ...
Same problem over Comcast. Missing center channel.

After reading through 65 pages... there's still 30 more to go!

Came up blank on the Federal Way area. Yes, I used the search function; though I did stuff my mind with lots of info from all of the previous posts. quarque, a analysis of the following location please:

Lat: 47.31
Lon: -122.34

Thanks for your dedication to this service!

--
Insert Signature

I'm using a MyHD card in my HTPC for OTA. I get all of the stations fine (except for 13, but that's another story), including the KCTS, non-HD. I have direct line of sight to downtown, so I get good signal strengths.

KCTS (and Titan TV) list "9-5" as the subchannel for the HD, the MyHD card detects the subchannel, but what I'm seeing is 480i, and the programming is what is listed as being on KCTS-SD, 9-1.

I'm aware that the HD programming is only during the evenings. Am I doing something wrong? Or, does KCTS-HD not actually exist?

Thanks for your help.

Richard

Originally posted by RPack
I'm using a MyHD card in my HTPC for OTA. I get all of the stations fine (except for 13, but that's another story), including the KCTS, non-HD. I have direct line of sight to downtown, so I get good signal strengths.

KCTS (and Titan TV) list "9-5" as the subchannel for the HD, the MyHD card detects the subchannel, but what I'm seeing is 480i, and the programming is what is listed as being on KCTS-SD, 9-1.

I'm aware that the HD programming is only during the evenings. Am I doing something wrong? Or, does KCTS-HD not actually exist?


9-1 (480p) is KCTS and is on at all times
9-2 (480i) is KCTS Kids and is on until 5PM
9-3 (480i) is KCTS Learns and is on until 5PM
9-5 (1080i) is KCTS HD and is on from 5PM

I was watching a music program on KCTS HD earlier, and had no problem. It also looked alright just a moment ago when I checked it.

Originally posted by llin_1234
After reading through 65 pages... there's still 30 more to go!

Came up blank on the Federal Way area. Yes, I used the search function; though I did stuff my mind with lots of info from all of the previous posts. quarque, a analysis of the following location please:

Lat: 47.31
Lon: -122.34

Thanks for your dedication to this service!

--
Insert Signature

That appears to be just east of 6th and 327th. You are at about 400 feet and should have no problems with hills. Your problem could be any number of things: trees, buildings, reflections, antenna selection, antenna location...
Can you provide any more info on your setup?

Can you provide any more info on your setup?

Poor choice of phrasing in my first message. I meant "blank" in the sense that no previous threads came from residents in my area.

The receiver is on the way and I'm hoping for success with an internal antenna but am willing to hike out on the room if necessary.

--
Yet Another Sig

Did anyone else have problems with the PQ on Star Trek being extremely poor (pixelated) tonight? I don't remember to watch it in HD that often, so I don't have much to compare it to, but I've never seen HD with that many problems that didn't seem to be reception related.

Yeah, I saw that too :(. It just showed up this week. Let's hope they get it straightened out before next week.

Star Trek looked fine OTA - not a blip that I recall all show.

I get KIRO pretty good in the evenings, but during the daytime....its a real crap shoot. Anyone have any ideas as to why I get a decent signal during the night, but nothing during the day.

I'm in Sammamish by the way and get the other channels pretty good.

Originally posted by Karyk
Did anyone else have problems with the PQ on Star Trek being extremely poor (pixelated) tonight? I don't remember to watch it in HD that often, so I don't have much to compare it to, but I've never seen HD with that many problems that didn't seem to be reception related.

Regarding the Star Trek issues on KSTW-DT .... I wonder if they're still adjusting their transmitter since raising power earlier this month? Sometimes I get KSTW great, with no dropouts, and sometimes I get lots of pixelation/dropouts. Of course, it's possible that my antenna isn't oriented quite right for KSTW-DT, yet I get KCTS-DT and KTWB-DT just fine, and they broadcast from the same location with similar power levels. Or maybe KSTW-DT's antenna pattern still doesn't cover north towards Mill Creek very well?

Originally posted by seabay
I get KIRO pretty good in the evenings, but during the daytime....its a real crap shoot. Anyone have any ideas as to why I get a decent signal during the night, but nothing during the day.

I'm in Sammamish by the way and get the other channels pretty good.

seabay
Most likely, you have a very marginal signal on 7, but don't realize it because of the way digital decodes it. If there's just enough to lock in on, the picture is fine. But just a little less signal, OR, more noise, and your signal to noise ratio goes the wrong way, and no picture, or constant break ups. If you have a "signal strength meter" or indicator on your receiver, it probably goes from a good number, like 70 or 80%, then nothing, or reads very low during the day. One major thing that can cause this is the Sun. Same reason AM radio works better at night. Another possible cause is on the same idea, but there may be something nearby that's causing noise, strip mall with noisy neon signs, some electrical device that's only on during the day, etc. It doesn't take much.

If you can't do much about it, or aren't sure what the cause is, then simply increase your signal level with more antenna or moving it to a different location. Amplifying it, as is, may not do it, as it will most likely increase the noise level, along with the weak signal, leaving you with the same marginal signal to noise ratio.
Dan

Heh, funny thing is, I'm in Sammamish, I get GREAT signal from 7-1 88+

terrible awful very bad signal from Komo (4-1)


good to great from everyone else (yes the 2 other queen anne towers)

Originally posted by mikeg_ms
Heh, funny thing is, I'm in Sammamish, I get GREAT signal from 7-1 88+

terrible awful very bad signal from Komo (4-1)


good to great from everyone else (yes the 2 other queen anne towers)

Yes, that's what makes that area so frustrating. Lot's of trees, rolling hills, and some areas that are high enough to see over all of Bellevue. Some spots are great, 100ft in any direction, terrible. Very unpredictable. I've done many surveys and installs there, and I still get surprised, both bad and good. The 88+ you're getting just indicates the decoder is happy, and has enough to lock in on, but you could actually have a terrible signal and wouldn't know it without seeing it on an analyzer or meter.
If you feel up to braving the great weather, trying some other locations may bring in ch4. A foot in any direction can make the difference.
Dan

yeah, crazy I know. Thx Dan.

Komo was rock solid before I put an HR10-250 in the mix, alas.
My base elevation is only 32' at main floor level, so I'm already on the chiminey, not a lot to work with, but I'll see what I can do.

Originally posted by litzdog911
Regarding the Star Trek issues on KSTW-DT .... I wonder if they're still adjusting their transmitter since raising power earlier this month? Sometimes I get KSTW great, with no dropouts, and sometimes I get lots of pixelation/dropouts. Of course, it's possible that my antenna isn't oriented quite right for KSTW-DT, yet I get KCTS-DT and KTWB-DT just fine, and they broadcast from the same location with similar power levels. Or maybe KSTW-DT's antenna pattern still doesn't cover north towards Mill Creek very well?


Nope, we're not playing with the transmitter. we are at about 85% of full power on our DT, but that's another story....shouldn't affect your reception in Mill Creek or anywhere around the metro Seattle Area.;)
Our studios are located in Renton behind a big hill and we receive KSTW DT 24/7 with just a UHF Yagi on our roof at about 20ft. in the air, no dropouts.
I do think rain is a factor with Terrestrial Digital Television reception. Make note of reception variances with the weather? Hmmmm....
I happened to see a bit of ST in HD on our 38" OTA set at the transmitter Friday eve....looked great!!
R. Diotte
CE, KSTW

I do think something was amiss with Enterprise this week, though, because I noticed a bit more pixelation myself.

There is something strange going on with the HD broadcasts on KSTW. I looked at Veronica Mars tonight at a friends house and noticed the same weird pixellation problems as with Enterprise. That's 4 different systems I've seen it on including an HR10-250, MyHD, DTC-100, and Samsung HD receiver. I don't believe it's a reception issue my signal strength is at 90 and no droupouts on the audio, same at my friends house.

I'm impressed that we have some participation from the station and surprised that they are not seeing this on their displays. So what can we do to isolate the problem?

Here's some screen captures from the recording I made of the HD broadcast of Enterprise on 11/26.

Enterprise Capture #1 (http://home.blarg.net/~sesmith/temp/ST1.JPG)
Enterprise Capture #2 (http://home.blarg.net/~sesmith/temp/ST2.JPG)
Enterprise Capture #3 (http://home.blarg.net/~sesmith/temp/ST3.JPG)
Enterprise Capture #4 (http://home.blarg.net/~sesmith/temp/ST4.JPG)
Enterprise Capture #5 (http://home.blarg.net/~sesmith/temp/ST5.JPG)
Enterprise Capture #6 (http://home.blarg.net/~sesmith/temp/ST6.JPG)
Steve

thanx for the screen captures....you're right, I see the disturbance in the pictures as well.
We will follow up and see if it's coming in from network that way or going thru our system and causing the blocking.
R.Diotte
CE, KSTW:

Thanks for looking into it. From what I've seen the problem occurs on all of your HD broadcasts and none of your SD broadcasts.

PS, why is the re-broadcast of Enterprise on Saturday not in HD?

Steve

Quarque,

What are the chances of getting decent HD reception at:

3257 W.W 328th Place
Federal Way 98023

Thanks in advance for your help.

John

Regarding the Re-feed of Enterprise on Saturdays, UPN Network doesn't send it to us in HD on Saturdays. It's probably a cost and transponder availability issue on weekends with alot of HD sports going on (as we are owned by CBS). There are only a couple of transponders that send CBS and UPN HD programming out...so the resources are limited.
R. Diotte
CE, KSTW

PS: We re-booted a couple of systems in the path of the ATSC signal stream. Let me know if it changed anything.

Originally posted by rdiotte
Regarding the Re-feed of Enterprise on Saturdays, UPN Network doesn't send it to us in HD on Saturdays. It's probably a cost and transponder availability issue on weekends with alot of HD sports going on (as we are owned by CBS). .

Maybe you could pop for an HD Tivo and hook that sucker up to your antenna for Saturdays! :D ;)

Originally posted by Steve Smith
Thanks for looking into it. From what I've seen the problem occurs on all of your HD broadcasts and none of your SD broadcasts.

PS, why is the re-broadcast of Enterprise on Saturday not in HD?

Steve

Your at about 300 feet with clear sailing to all towers. Now it's just a matter of the usual buildings, trees, bats and gnats...

Originally posted by Steve Smith
There is something strange going on with the HD broadcasts on KSTW. I looked at Veronica Mars tonight at a friends house and noticed the same weird pixellation problems as with Enterprise. That's 4 different systems I've seen it on including an HR10-250, MyHD, DTC-100, and Samsung HD receiver. I don't believe it's a reception issue my signal strength is at 90 and no droupouts on the audio, same at my friends house.

I'm impressed that we have some participation from the station and surprised that they are not seeing this on their displays. So what can we do to isolate the problem?

Here's some screen captures from the recording I made of the HD broadcast of Enterprise on 11/26.

Enterprise Capture #1 (http://home.blarg.net/~sesmith/temp/ST1.JPG)
Enterprise Capture #2 (http://home.blarg.net/~sesmith/temp/ST2.JPG)
Enterprise Capture #3 (http://home.blarg.net/~sesmith/temp/ST3.JPG)
Enterprise Capture #4 (http://home.blarg.net/~sesmith/temp/ST4.JPG)
Enterprise Capture #5 (http://home.blarg.net/~sesmith/temp/ST5.JPG)
Enterprise Capture #6 (http://home.blarg.net/~sesmith/temp/ST6.JPG)
Steve
Steve - just curious why your captures are in 4:3 AR instead of 16:9.

Originally posted by rdiotte
thanx for the screen captures....you're right, I see the disturbance in the pictures as well.
We will follow up and see if it's coming in from network that way or going thru our system and causing the blocking.
R.Diotte
CE, KSTW:
Ron - great to see a CE staying on top of things and letting us know about it. Thanks for your efforts and postings.

Hi I am new to avsforum and am trying to figure out if ota hdtv is possible in my area. I am located in Bellevue and closest cross street is 24th and 167th. What do you guys think about a signal around my house? Is it worth investing in an antenna and what type is best in my area to get all DTV channels. Thanks in advance.

Ron has visited and participated here several times when there was significant HD activity at KSTW. We even exchanged a few direct emails when his team was working through some PSIP and program guide issues.

This kind of cooperation and communication benefits all of us. Ron gets timely, meaningful feedback, such as the screen shots for Enterprise. And Ron keeps us informed of upcoming changes and improvements.

Kudos to Ron and everyone here who is willing to help. I wish a few more CEs or station representatives were as cooperative. Another engineer who appreciates feedback from us is Don W. at KOMO-DT. When I was between jobs I had some time to spend watching and monitoring HD, and communicating with these fellows.

Originally posted by quarque
Steve - just curious why your captures are in 4:3 AR instead of 16:9.

The capture software didn't keep the aspect ratio. They are stretched vertically.

Steve

Originally posted by HDchingoo
Hi I am new to avsforum and am trying to figure out if ota hdtv is possible in my area. I am located in Bellevue and closest cross street is 24th and 167th. What do you guys think about a signal around my house? Is it worth investing in an antenna and what type is best in my area to get all DTV channels. Thanks in advance.

Are there any large trees, buildings., or other obstructions nearby between you and the tower? Go to www.antennaweb.org and type in your zip code. It will make antenna recommendations based on your location.

Steve

Originally posted by HDchingoo
Hi I am new to avsforum and am trying to figure out if ota hdtv is possible in my area. I am located in Bellevue and closest cross street is 24th and 167th. What do you guys think about a signal around my house? Is it worth investing in an antenna and what type is best in my area to get all DTV channels. Thanks in advance.
Around here, antennaweb is not of much use except to get compass headings. Their data does not account for terrain. With all the hills we have I have found that a topographic plot is the only way to see what is going on. Fortunately, you are in a good spot at about 400 feet with no hills in your way. The Channel Master 4221 should work nicely and all the major networks are in the same general direction. Good luck!

Originally posted by Steve Smith
The capture software didn't keep the aspect ratio. They are stretched vertically.

Steve
those dang software clowns again...

Originally posted by rdiotte
PS: We re-booted a couple of systems in the path of the ATSC signal stream. Let me know if it changed anything.
R. Diotte
CE, KSTW



I didn't see any problems with Kevin Hill tonight. Looking good!

Steve

Hi quarque and everyone else!
I too am new to this forum (at least posting that is...) and I'm trying to figure out whether I can get OTA HD at my house. I think I'm in bad shape but can't stop myself from finding out for sure - the comcast DVR just won't hold enough stuff for me!
House location is on the NE side of Mercer Island - closest intersection is 95th Ave SE and Mercerwood Drive. House address is 9346-Mercerwood Drive.
Thanks so much for you help!
Regards,
george

Originally posted by JM Anthony
Quarque,

What are the chances of getting decent HD reception at:

3257 W.W 328th Place
Federal Way 98023

Thanks in advance for your help.

John

John
It's not a problem of height, but all the trees. If you can find the right spot to get through them, signal level is pretty good. Ch13 is spotty, there, for some reason, shouldn't be, level is strong, but gets really chopped up by the trees. Call me and I'll check it out for you, cheap. I'm your neighbor, live about a 1/4 mile from you!
Dan
206-794-3993

Originally posted by HDchingoo
Hi I am new to avsforum and am trying to figure out if ota hdtv is possible in my area. I am located in Bellevue and closest cross street is 24th and 167th. What do you guys think about a signal around my house? Is it worth investing in an antenna and what type is best in my area to get all DTV channels. Thanks in advance.

As quarque said, you are in a good spot, height-wise, but there are lots of trees in the way for about a 1/4 mile. There's plenty of signal, so the trick is to find a good mounting spot that will see through them. Not hard, but will require some patience. I would try the 4248 instead of the 4221, as it's better in trees.
Dan

Originally posted by Budget_HT
Kudos to Ron and everyone here who is willing to help. I wish a few more CEs or station representatives were as cooperative. Another engineer who appreciates feedback from us is Don W. at KOMO-DT. When I was between jobs I had some time to spend watching and monitoring HD, and communicating with these fellows.

It's awesome to have participation from studio engineers like this! How does one get in touch with Don W. from KOMO? I've been having a bunch of problems with with audio on a couple different shows on KOMO recently, and from looking at threads like http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4673714&highlight=abc#post4673714, I can see I'm not the only one.

Originally posted by rdiotte
we are at about 85% of full power on our DT... Does anyone know what the power ratings are for the other Seattle area broadcasts? Is anyone at full power yet?

Originally posted by Dave Buchthal
It's awesome to have participation from studio engineers like this! How does one get in touch with Don W. from KOMO? I've been having a bunch of problems with with audio on a couple different shows on KOMO recently, and from looking at threads like http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4673714&highlight=abc#post4673714, I can see I'm not the only one.

Me too! KOMO has had a variety of audio problems ever since they started broadcasting in HD. Last night I was watching Lost. Right off the bat there was some loud snap, crackle, pop noises in the audio, then there were Lip sync problems and some more intermittent snapping noises. About halfway into the program they switched to 4:3 standard definition. WTF? :confused:

KOMO does have the best HD news broadcasts though. Pretty much everything they originate stays in 16:9 format. I haven't seen any audio or lip sync problems on the local news.

Steve

I also noticed that LOST had problems. The loud pop at the beginning when they swicthed from Stereo to DD5.1. Then mid-way through they lost their 16:9 image until the show was almost done, and it went back to 16:9.

Originally posted by georgepe
Hi quarque and everyone else!
I too am new to this forum (at least posting that is...) and I'm trying to figure out whether I can get OTA HD at my house. I think I'm in bad shape but can't stop myself from finding out for sure - the comcast DVR just won't hold enough stuff for me!
House location is on the NE side of Mercer Island - closest intersection is 95th Ave SE and Mercerwood Drive. House address is 9346-Mercerwood Drive.
Thanks so much for you help!
Regards,
george
yep, you're in bad shape allright. You are right behind a hill and nothing short of a 75-foot tower will get you a decent signal. Looks like multiple DVR's from Comcast is your only hope.

Originally posted by Dave Buchthal
It's awesome to have participation from studio engineers like this! How does one get in touch with Don W. from KOMO? I've been having a bunch of problems with with audio on a couple different shows on KOMO recently, and from looking at threads like http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4673714&highlight=abc#post4673714, I can see I'm not the only one.
Don is retired and only does consulting for KOMO. He monitors this forum on a regular basis (Hi Don) and does what he can. They are well aware of the problems with ABC HD and DD5.1. A large percentage of it is the network feed to the locals. They have replaced equipment and tried several things over the last year. DT is not their top priority but should be getting more attention as the "deadline" draws near.

Well, not just to KING, but to most NBC stations, including all of Belo's:

http://www.nbccableinfo.com/insidenbccable/networks/weather/resources/inthenews/111504.html

:(

providing local weather information in real time, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, even during commercials Boy that sounds exciting. Why should they waste all that bandwidth on HDTV? I hope they can add a 24-hour traffic channel too.

5-2: Highs in the upper 40's, lows in the lower 40's. Highs in the upper 40's, lows in the lower 40s. Highs in the upper 40's, lows in the...

5-3: Traffic is slow on I-5 Northbound from 85th to Lynnwood. 520 is backed up too. Traffic is slow on I-5 Northbound from 85th to Lynnwood. 520 is backed up too. Traffic is slow on I-5...

LOL Steve, but now I'm getting depressed. As I predicted many months ago, we are going to end up with digital doo-doo. Lots of subchannels of crap and one highly-compressed HD channel that is not much better than digital SD broadcasts. OTA will no longer be worth the effort or expense.

You forgot 5-4: Seahawks 9 Bills 38. Seahawks 9 Bills 38. Seahawks 9 Bills 38. Seahawks 9 Bills 38...

OOPS, WRONG THREAD...OFF TO COMCAST/SEATTLE

It's a shame IMO. We're a minority here unfortunately. The same thing happens with satellite and cable, and I honestly can't really blame them because they would sell quality if that was what the average consumer wanted. But advertising 120 channels (even though 50 are shopping channels) sells better than offering a lesser number of high bandwidth channels.

It's no different with broadcast. Show Belo how they would make more money by offering one high bandwidth channel and they would do it in a heartbeat.

Thank you guys for all your help based on your input I will be purchasing a 4248 or the 4221. Thanks again guys!! :)

What I wonder about is whether the feeds to comcast will suffer at a lower bitrate as well, or if they are getting the entire available bandwidth for each subchannel. If so, it would be a compelling reason to go with cable.

-Lance

Hi -

I'm thinking of thinking of trying HDTV over the air, partly because I'm not having much luck getting good analog reception. I've tried two RCA VHF/UHF LPDA + Yagi antennas in my attic. I currently have the 3036X, a 110" unit, with no pre-amp. PBS (9) is slightly "soft focus" no matter how the antenna's pointed, and FOX (13) doesn't come in at all. (I actually got some reception of 13 with the smaller 3030 antenna.)

I was about to give up and get basic cable, until I thought: What are the chances I'd get better reception of digital signals? I'd rather buy HDTV equipment than pay Comcast every month.

I've heard it can be tougher, but I'm wondering if the higher frequencies of the digital stations would happen to come it better. I could get a UHF-only antenna like the Channel Master 4228 that seems so well regarded, and add a pre-amp.

I live in northeast Seattle on 36th Ave NE just south of 52nd St. Our house is one of the taller ones around, but there are a few huge fir trees between us and Queen Anne. I'd really rather not stick an antenna on top of the house, though I understand the attic is not ideal.

Thanks for your thoughts.

- Wallace

Wallace - you have no hills in the way based on a topo plot. So you are over hurdle #1. Part of your problem may be the attic mount. Can you put something on the roof? Digital *should* be easier if you can move your antenna around to find the sweet spot where the trees are not blocking the signal. 4228 might be overkill outside - try a 4221 first (although 4228 in the attic would be better than 4221 because of the lower signal levels in an attic).

Wallace, you should try using a preamp if there's no way to mount your antennas outside. That may help some. The Channel Master 7777 is a good one if you need both VHF/UHF, or use the 7775 for UHF-only (all of our DTV stations are UHF).

Thanks, quarque. I could do the roof, but I'd rather not for appearance's sake. But maybe I'd be willing to as a last resort.

But given the same antenna location, is there any reason that digital reception would be better or worse?

I'm betting that broadcasters try harder to make digital broadcasts receivable, since there's increasing interest in them. But maybe that doesn't make much difference.

Thanks,
Wallace

Wallace,

FWIW, I had an antenna in my attic just sitting around for when the cable (or later DirecTV) went out. The analog reception was marginal. I hooked up an HD card and get pretty decent reception. In fact, since I tuned it by using the analog signals instead of by trying to go off digital signal strength readouts, I've had few reception problems. I'm at the opposite end of Seattle, however, and get Ch 13 almost no matter what direction the antenna is pointed (although that wasn't true for analog--I did get an add-on antenna which I've since removed).

What are the Vegas odds on the Seahawk game tomorrow night for whether KOMO will mess up the audio? :)

Originally posted by wallacewhite
Thanks, quarque. I could do the roof, but I'd rather not for appearance's sake. But maybe I'd be willing to as a last resort.

But given the same antenna location, is there any reason that digital reception would be better or worse?

I'm betting that broadcasters try harder to make digital broadcasts receivable, since there's increasing interest in them. But maybe that doesn't make much difference.

Thanks,
Wallace

Wallace
You're in a great location, have happy people all around you! Use a 4221, attic or not. Anything else is going to be way too hot. Do NOT use any preamp. The 4221 has a wider reception path than the 4228, which you will need for the 3 different directions. Mounting the antenna outside doesn't mean it has to be up above the roof, just that it has a clear shot from about due south to sw. Even if you have a tree or two in the way, it's still a very good location. You can always mount it on the side of the house. If you choose outside, and you have sporadic readings, be sure to use an attenuator, like the 20db adjustable from RatShack, set about half way, for starters.
As far as reception, HD is far clearer than analog, no noise. Once the picture locks in, it's as good as it gets. What makes digital fussier is getting a quality signal as well as a enough level or strength. If you can get it in the attic, fine. It's just going to take more patience. Or you could get lucky and it will work fine. Either way, once you get it working, you'll be very pleased. It's noticeably better than cable, and FREE !!
Dan

KING 5 RECEPTION IN DUVALL

I've had my CM 4228 up for several months now, enjoying HD Tivo. However, KING 5 has always been somewhat flakey, and seems to be getting more so lately, to the point where the Tivo will not even attempt to record it at times. I have almost no problems with 7 and 13, and only occasional glitches with 4 and 9.

I'm in the Duvall area, up in the hills. We're in the 312xx block of NE 141st Street, the nearest cross street being 311th Ave. The 4228 is mounted fairly high with no buildings obstructing it, but there are tall neighboring trees that I tried to work around.

Any thoughts on how I can get 5 on a consistent basis? Would a pre-amp (say, CM 7775) help? Thanks for any help.

Jeff

Originally posted by DanKurts
Wallace
You're in a great location, have happy people all around you! Use a 4221, attic or not. Anything else is going to be way too hot. Do NOT use any preamp.


Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Anybody know if the CM 4221 is available at a Seattle store? I see from the FAQ that Fry's has them. Just wondering if there's somewhere closer.

Thanks,
Wallace

Anyone else notice the audio on the Seahawks MNF broadcast in HD on KOMO-DT tonight?

I watched OTA and the A/V receiver said it was DD 5.1 but the audio and my ears said it was more like stereo until 8:03 left in the third quarter, when, all of the sudden, the REAL DD 5.1 started, complete with crowd and stadium PA announcer in the rear speakers.

I noticed several times through the program before that they seemed to switch audio and quickly switch back, as if trying to get it to work.

I have a feeling that KOMO-DT was playing conservative and shipping us stereo over "DD 5.1" until they could confirm that the 5.1 channel assignments were correct, so that we would not have to listen to announcers in the left rear speaker again.

The third and fourth quarter audio remained DD 5.1. Too bad the Seahawks were not as stable to the end.

I also had MANY dropouts where the video and audio froze, sometimes for less than a second and many times for more than a second. I am wondering if this is a reception problem at my house, or if others saw the same thing.

Originally posted by jganson
KING 5 RECEPTION IN DUVALL

I've had my CM 4228 up for several months now, enjoying HD Tivo. However, KING 5 has always been somewhat flakey, and seems to be getting more so lately, to the point where the Tivo will not even attempt to record it at times. I have almost no problems with 7 and 13, and only occasional glitches with 4 and 9.

I'm in the Duvall area, up in the hills. We're in the 312xx block of NE 141st Street, the nearest cross street being 311th Ave. The 4228 is mounted fairly high with no buildings obstructing it, but there are tall neighboring trees that I tried to work around.

Any thoughts on how I can get 5 on a consistent basis? Would a pre-amp (say, CM 7775) help? Thanks for any help.

Jeff

Jeff
Definitely use a 7775. Every job I've done out there needed one. Yes, you can live without it, but you're really on the weak side. Pringles in Evt has them. If that doesn't work, keep the preamp and use a 4248, far better in the trees. And you have almost a mile of them before you break free. What also makes 5 poor over there is the transmitting pattern is not as strong to the east as it is to the north and south.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=18954&rotate=0.00&p0=1.000&p10=0.978&p20=0.915&p30=0.820&p40=0.709&p50=0.597&p60=0.501&p70=0.432&p80=0.393&p90=0.381&p100=0.393&p110=0.432&p120=0.501&p130=0.597&p140=0.709&p150=0.820&p160=0.915&p170=0.978&p180=1.000&p190=0.978&p200=0.915&p210=0.820&p220=0.709&p230=0.597&p240=0.501&p250=0.432&p260=0.393&p270=0.381&p280=0.393&p290=0.432&p300=0.501&p310=0.597&p320=0.709&p330=0.820&p340=0.915&p350=0.978&p360=1.000&

It's usually at least 10db down, or more from 4 or 7.
Try the preamp first, and then go from there.
Dan

Originally posted by NHLFAN
Dan,
Here's the details:

HBO and SHOWTIME - Charge $23.00

TOTAL CHOICE PLUS with Locals - Charge $42.99

Network: FOX from NYC/LA_* - Charge $2.25

Network: ABC from NYC/LA_* - Charge $2.25

Network: NBC from NYC/LA_* - Charge $2.25

Network: CBS from NYC/LA_* - Charge $2.25

DIRECTV DVR - Charge $4.99

Additional Receiver - Charge $4.99

Additional Receiver - Charge $4.99

HD Package - Charge $10.99

hope that helps...

NHLFAN
and others.....
Update on East/West HD feeds.
Finally got my customer up and running that had the grandfathered waivers for the East/West coast sat feeds. He now has CBS and NBC in HD, when they broadcast it, for New York and LA. Haven't seen the FOX station come on, yet, but then I haven't had much time to watch it. Did notice that the LA news looked like it was in HD, but cropped for 4:3, similar to KING5, here. I called and asked about ABC HD, they said it's in the works, maybe by 1st qtr next year. It is cool to watch the HD feeds earlier, and see their local stuff. Asked if/when they plan to offer it to everyone without all the hassle, and they said they're working on that, too, but it all comes down to the local stations. So if you want it sooner, pressure them. You also get the East/West analog feeds on different channels. The charges were as you stated, and we didn't have to turn on the HD portion when we started up his new receiver. A soon as they loaded the program, it came right on, so if you had the waivers and a HD receiver, you also get the HD feeds.
Seems silly that we need waivers, when they already are sending the analog local feeds, anyway.
Hmmmmm.......
Wonder what would happen if all the forum members signed a petition to dump the waivers, and it got sent to stations, satellite providers and the FCC peoples.........
per chance to dream....

Dan

Originally posted by Budget_HT
I also had MANY dropouts where the video and audio froze, sometimes for less than a second and many times for more than a second. I am wondering if this is a reception problem at my house, or if others saw the same thing.

I had the same thing, and I'm pretty sure they were KOMO based because I didn't have any pixelization when they occurred [Edit: And also that I had no such issues during the news and pre-game show on KOMO immediately prior]. I tried switching to Comcast to see if they'd disappear, and they did for the short period of time I watched, but Comcast had different audio issues which I found more annoying.

Originally posted by Karyk
I had the same thing, and I'm pretty sure they were KOMO based because I didn't have any pixelization when they occurred [Edit: And also that I had no such issues during the news and pre-game show on KOMO immediately prior]. I tried switching to Comcast to see if they'd disappear, and they did for the short period of time I watched, but Comcast had different audio issues which I found more annoying.

Yep, the KOMO/ABC problems continue .... DD5.1 audio issues, video freezes. These are the same issues we see on all of ABC's prime time HiDef shows, too. When oh when will ABC and KOMO get this fixed?

My Audio receiver auto detects the signal, and switches appropriately. The audio on the Seahacks game was definitely Stereo until the 3rd quarter, which is when they changed to DD5.1.

And... yes, I saw the stutters in the video as well.

Originally posted by DanKurts
Definitely use a 7775. Every job I've done out there needed one.

That's exactly the advice I was looking for - thanks Dan!

Jeff

I guess I am no worse off than anyone else trying to watch ABC network programs on KOMO-DT. I have learned over the years to try and prove that a problem is not my own before I pass it on to others.

I recall that KOMO obtained their HD equipment very early in the game when they were equipping their brand new studio. I suspect that they have some earlier, perhaps more buggy, versions of equipment that increase their challenge to get all the pieces working together in harmony. It seems like they have good days and bad days. Sometimes I can watch an entire network program (like NYPD Blue, for example) with no glitches at all. Other times, There are so many freezes that I start to lose the flow of the program and have to revert to SD. I don't recall seeing problems recently on local HD programs (like the news).

Hello All.

I live on the backside of Capitol Hill, in Madison Valley, on 27th and Denny. I am going to assume that I will not be able to get most OTA HD broadcasts. I have tried SD OTA broadcasts, but I only get 22 and 9, both of which are a half mile up the hill.

Has anyone had any luck getting KING, KOMO or KIRO in my neck of the woods? Any recommendations?

Thanks for your help!

Chris

Originally posted by Budget_HT
I guess I am no worse off than anyone else trying to watch ABC network programs on KOMO-DT. I have learned over the years to try and prove that a problem is not my own before I pass it on to others.

I recall that KOMO obtained their HD equipment very early in the game when they were equipping their brand new studio. I suspect that they have some earlier, perhaps more buggy, versions of equipment that increase their challenge to get all the pieces working together in harmony. It seems like they have good days and bad days. Sometimes I can watch an entire network program (like NYPD Blue, for example) with no glitches at all. Other times, There are so many freezes that I start to lose the flow of the program and have to revert to SD. I don't recall seeing problems recently on local HD programs (like the news).

Yeah, I've never seen or heard problems with KOMO's locally originated HiDef stuff, just the ABC network feeds. Reading though other forums here it's clearly not just a KOMO problem. I'm just surprised that it's taking so long to fix it. I almost liked it better when the only problem was out-of-synch audio/video. When they solved that problem these new ones appeared.

My house is on top of a hill in Somerset, which is the big hill behind Factoria Mall just off I-90. I can look out my front window and see the broadcast towers on Queen Anne Hill, so I assume I could get good reception OTA.

However, my wife doesn't like the idea of installing an "ugly" rooftop antenna, so I have an appointment scheduled to have Comcast come out and install digital cable with HD DVR this Thursday.

But now I'm getting "cold feet." I have Dish Network Sat TV right now, and I'm very happy with it and I'm reluctant to give it up. But I can't get the local channels in HD and I won't be able to watch the Mariners games in HD-TV since they are a Comcast exclusive (from what I understand).

So here are my questions: I switched to Dish TV to get a better picture than cable and lower price. Does digital cable have better quality picture for the "basic cable" channels than old analog cable TV, or is it basically the same? Does anybody have experience with the Comcast HD vs. OTA HD? If so, how does it compare? The HD DVR's that I have seen are very expensive right now, so getting one from Comcast for $10 per month seems like a pretty good deal. I have a DVR with my Dish Network and I love it for recording programs. Are there stand-alone HD receiver/DVR's that can be purchased for a reasonable price?

As you can tell, I have mixed feelings at this point and I will probably cancel my Comcast install appointment until I have more time to think this through.

I'd appreciate all the feedback I can get from people who are or have been in a similar situation to me.

Thanks!

Hi all, been lurking for a while, wondering if the experts could help me. I live NE of Renton towards Issaquah (Approxamate Crossroads: SE 152nd Ave and SE 136th St., unincorporated KC). I have a Medium size directional antenna in my attic with a Radio Shack pre-amp. I am able to get KING-DT on my Dish 921 very strongly (105-112 on their scale). KOMO is sketchy, in the 60-70 range, with dips below that make the signal unwatchable. KIRO is almost non-existent, ranging from 0-65. I have my antenna pointed in the direction of Downtown Seattle. My question is, are KOMO and KIRO at lower power then KING, or is it possible that I need to try to peak my antenna more.

I recieve KCPQ-DT very strongly, and KSTW-DT comes in pretty good too. KCTS-DT is sketchy at best. I'm really just interested in getting the KOMO and KIRO signals in better. For a variety of reasons, I'd like to keep the antenna off the house.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

pbrown (brownnet)

Originally posted by SteveCoug
Are there stand-alone HD receiver/DVR's that can be purchased for a reasonable price?
You can get the Dish 921 for $549, and it includes an OTA tuner. I would think you'd be able to pick up the Seattle stations easily - maybe even with rabbit ears.

Originally posted by Diabeastie
Hello All.

I live on the backside of Capitol Hill, in Madison Valley, on 27th and Denny. I am going to assume that I will not be able to get most OTA HD broadcasts. I have tried SD OTA broadcasts, but I only get 22 and 9, both of which are a half mile up the hill.

Has anyone had any luck getting KING, KOMO or KIRO in my neck of the woods? Any recommendations?

Thanks for your help!

Chris

Diabeastie
Installed several within blocks of you. The problem is not so much the hill. You're just over the edge signal-wise, but possible. It's that ch's 9-11-22 are screaming down on you, causing the front end of you're receiver to turn down it's internal gain. The trick is to get enough of the other channels without the overload. It can be done, just takes patience.
Call and I'll explain some solutions. Too tired to write it all out!
Dan
206-794-3993

Originally posted by brownnet
Hi all, been lurking for a while, wondering if the experts could help me. I live NE of Renton towards Issaquah (Approxamate Crossroads: SE 152nd Ave and SE 136th St., unincorporated KC). I have a Medium size directional antenna in my attic with a Radio Shack pre-amp. I am able to get KING-DT on my Dish 921 very strongly (105-112 on their scale). KOMO is sketchy, in the 60-70 range, with dips below that make the signal unwatchable. KIRO is almost non-existent, ranging from 0-65. I have my antenna pointed in the direction of Downtown Seattle. My question is, are KOMO and KIRO at lower power then KING, or is it possible that I need to try to peak my antenna more.

I recieve KCPQ-DT very strongly, and KSTW-DT comes in pretty good too. KCTS-DT is sketchy at best. I'm really just interested in getting the KOMO and KIRO signals in better. For a variety of reasons, I'd like to keep the antenna off the house.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

pbrown (brownnet)

pbrown
Get the antenna out of the attic, and remove the preamp. The trees are some of the problem, and the attic just compounds it. You're in a good location. If you can't find a good spot, then add the preamp back on and try that. If you're still not there, then you may need to try a different antenna, one more suited for the trees.
Dan

Originally posted by SteveCoug
My house is on top of a hill in Somerset, which is the big hill behind Factoria Mall just off I-90. I can look out my front window and see the broadcast towers on Queen Anne Hill, so I assume I could get good reception OTA.

However, my wife doesn't like the idea of installing an "ugly" rooftop antenna, so I have an appointment scheduled to have Comcast come out and install digital cable with HD DVR this Thursday.

But now I'm getting "cold feet." I have Dish Network Sat TV right now, and I'm very happy with it and I'm reluctant to give it up. But I can't get the local channels in HD and I won't be able to watch the Mariners games in HD-TV since they are a Comcast exclusive (from what I understand).

So here are my questions: I switched to Dish TV to get a better picture than cable and lower price. Does digital cable have better quality picture for the "basic cable" channels than old analog cable TV, or is it basically the same? Does anybody have experience with the Comcast HD vs. OTA HD? If so, how does it compare? The HD DVR's that I have seen are very expensive right now, so getting one from Comcast for $10 per month seems like a pretty good deal. I have a DVR with my Dish Network and I love it for recording programs. Are there stand-alone HD receiver/DVR's that can be purchased for a reasonable price?

As you can tell, I have mixed feelings at this point and I will probably cancel my Comcast install appointment until I have more time to think this through.

I'd appreciate all the feedback I can get from people who are or have been in a similar situation to me.

Thanks!
Steve
Done installs with both cable and satellite in HD, and over air. The locals in HD over cable are close to the over air in quality, but you can see a small difference, side by side, over air being better. The regular cable channels that you get with out the digital box are just the same as with it. This means that if your cable system in your area is prone to ingress (local channels leaking in to the cable from poor connections, etc, causing ghosting) then it will be just as ugly with the digital box. Of course, the HD locals will be not be affected by this. If you wanted KIRO in HD, it's not there. I would suggest since you have Dish, get the 921 and use a small antenna, like the Radio Shack 15-2160.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2160&MSCSProfile=745D84CBF04D14A48AA6FF9C89D722C0BA68C1B04FE38467 8A5285FCD6E056B17AF21627FDABE316B90B3C038D68EBD6B7F9F3BD1712 EAA9951ACB2590A05C6517EFE46941FEFDD1985D4EFD6321F5E70B4DE9B6 C1D45512DCD9FB3DBCACB94767B6DC3EA747CBBE1BE5188D471A71409C71 A359F5A8E82DBCF9E1FB244EF1376053B6A416AD4A19

You can hang it off the underside of your deck or on the side of the house some place where she won't see it. As long as it can see Seattle, you're fine. Also, get a 15-678 attenuator, like this

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D678&MSCSProfile=745D84CBF04D14A48AA6FF9C89D722C0BA68C1B04FE38467 8A5285FCD6E056B17AF21627FDABE316B90B3C038D68EBD6B7F9F3BD1712 EAA9951ACB2590A05C6517EFE46941FEFDD1985D4EFD6321F5E70B4DE9B6 C1D45512DCD9FB3DBCACB94767B6DC3EA747CBBE1BE5188D471A71409C71 A359F5A8E82DBCF9E1FB244EF1376053B6A416AD4A19

The signal will be pretty strong, so you will need to knock it down. I know it doesn't make sense to get a bigger than needed antenna and then reduce the signal, but it works better that way, really.

And anytime you want to sell the house, look me up! I love the view from up there. I walked that area when I was in high school, too many years ago. Great place for taking dates and...... enjoy the view, yeah....

Dan

Hey Quarque, can you run an address for line-of-sight for me? 8515 137th Ave NE, Redmond.

Thanks!


Ivan

Originally posted by Ivan H.
Hey Quarque, can you run an address for line-of-sight for me? 8515 137th Ave NE, Redmond.

Thanks!


Ivan

Ivan
You're in a bad spot. Elevation of about 270ft, but you have a 430ft hill to go over, plus trees in under a half mile. The signal is about 100ft, give or take, above you.
Suggest cable on this one if you want the locals in HD.
Dan

Originally posted by SteveCoug
So here are my questions: I switched to Dish TV to get a better picture than cable and lower price. Does digital cable have better quality picture for the "basic cable" channels than old analog cable TV, or is it basically the same? Does anybody have experience with the Comcast HD vs. OTA HD? If so, how does it compare? The HD DVR's that I have seen are very expensive right now, so getting one from Comcast for $10 per month seems like a pretty good deal. I have a DVR with my Dish Network and I love it for recording programs. Are there stand-alone HD receiver/DVR's that can be purchased for a reasonable price?

In your location I'd guess you could get by with a very minimal antenna, perhaps even one of the internal units designed for inside the house. If you have an attic, that would almost certainly work.

The local analog channels on Comcast suck big time compared to DirecTV. HD on Comcast and OTA are virtually identical (just different bugs at different times), but Comcast doesn't have KIRO. The HD Tivo is probably at least $700 still. I use an old computer and a MyHD card for recording HD.

If I put it in the attic, should I go with a big antenna like the CM 4221 or 4228? I understand the attic installation reduces signal strength by about 50%.

Also, I see Dish Network has dropped the price of their HD TV DVR to $549, it was about $999 last time I checked. So I am going with Dish because I really like their service.

Still bummed about no M's in HD though. :-(

Steve-

I have a 921, and really like it. There was new software released yesterday that seems to really improve it's stability. If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

I wouldn't count out seeing the Mariners in HD. FSN is supposed to be working on an HD channel that could be regionalized over Sat.

As for my problems, can anyone answer the issue of whether KOMO and KIRO are broadcasting DT at full power? My gut feeling is that they aren't, but I'd like confirmation before I continue my troubleshooting process.

I'm not much of a "do it youself" guy, I'd rather pay a little extra to have somebody who knows what they are doing install an antenna for me to make sure I get the right kind, installed in the right location, etc.

Can anybody recommend a GOOD TV antenna installation company in the Bellevue-Seattle area? It's hard to find a good installer "shooting in the dark" on the Web.

Thanks!

Steve

Originally posted by SteveCoug
I'm not much of a "do it youself" guy, I'd rather pay a little extra to have somebody who knows what they are doing install an antenna for me to make sure I get the right kind, installed in the right location, etc.

Can anybody recommend a GOOD TV antenna installation company in the Bellevue-Seattle area? It's hard to find a good installer "shooting in the dark" on the Web.

Thanks!

Steve

Steve, see the posts here by Dan Kurts .... he comes highly recommended.

Originally posted by litzdog911
Steve, see the posts here by Dan Kurts .... he comes highly recommended.

Thanks for the recommendation!

I just left a PM for Dan. I notice he has not posted for awhile, so I hope he gets it. I need an install before Friday 11/17 because that's when the Dish Network guy shows up and I want to make sure everything works properly.

If anybody knows Dan, please tell him to check his PM box.

Or if anybody has his phone number or email, please post it here or PM me.

Thanks!

Dan's phone number was posted last night in this very same thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4777013#post4777013

Originally posted by Budget_HT
Dan's phone number was posted last night in this very same thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4777013#post4777013

WHOOPS!

I did a search for "Dan Kurts" and I didn't see anything newer than 10/24.

Now I see that he has responded to MY first post!

DOH!

ok, now I'm embarassed.

I'd also like to strongly recommend Jim at Satellite Connection, with all due respect to Dan. Jim installed my satellite system and also does antenna installs (I didn't have him do mine because I'm too cheap, but I probably should have.). Here's his info:

Satellite Connection
1201 4th S
Seattle, WA 98134 - 1591
(206) 521-1022

Originally posted by JasG
Does anyone know what the power ratings are for the other Seattle area broadcasts? Is anyone at full power yet?


Every major OTA viewing DTV broadcast in the Seattle market is currently licensed to be at full power per the FCC.

The station I work for, KSTW-DT was probably the last to go full power as we opted to wait for a new antenna design which we recently put OTA, Nov. 3rd.

WYSIWYG from now on.

To follow up from other comments I have read on these threads...I would say that the various broadcasters and consumers all have different iterations/ generations of the DTV technology to date.
The reasons for some stations to come in well and others not is just as much the combination of newer and older DTV gear at both the originating TV station as well as the receiver/antennas of the consumer.
Until the BER (bit error rate) of the broadcast is as low and constant over a defined area of coverage and the decoding chipset is as good as it can get...we will not achieve a consistant, reliable transmission/reception combination.
We're actually doing DTV, it's just gonna take a few years of experience and manufacturing maturity to obtain a broadcast standard similar if not superior to what we've been accustomed to these last 50 years.

R. Diotte
CE, KSTW
UPN11/ DT-36

R-

Great post. I actually work in TV too, although I'm at a cable station now. I realize that everyone is licensed to broadcast at full power now, but that doesn't mean they actually do, does it? I know the TV station in Spokane I worked at last year was only broadcasting at 25% of licensed power to save money (as you know, digital transmitters = more $$ to operate). So what do you think? IS everyone broadcasting at full licensed power? Thanks.

Just wanted to solicit the collective wisdom here...

I have a Dish 921 receiver connected to a large old VHF/UHF antenna in the attic from previous owners. I assumed the antenna wouldn't matter much since I'm not far from the broadcast towers. I pointed it based on antennaweb's azimuth, but haven't had good results.

What I'm seeing is that the 921 can find all the digital channels, but while watching them, the receiver's signal meter jumps around a lot (large jumps within one second), causing frequent drop-outs.

I'm at the intersection of NE 156th St. and 35th Ave NE at the edge of Lake Forest Park. I guess we're slightly in the 'bowl' of Lk. Washington, but towards the top. There are some trees to my southwest as well.

Is this just a matter of getting a new UHF-only antenna? Or am I seeing multipath reflections bouncing around the lake?

Thanks!

It'sMike,

Try aiming your antenna using the VHF section and aim at 4,5 or 7 to get the best picture. I found it was easier to get the direction that way than by checking signal strengths on the digital channels.

Originally posted by rdiotte
Every major OTA viewing DTV broadcast in the Seattle market is currently licensed to be at full power per the FCC.

The station I work for, KSTW-DT was probably the last to go full power as we opted to wait for a new antenna design which we recently put OTA, Nov. 3rd.

WYSIWYG from now on.

R. Diotte
CE, KSTW
UPN11/ DT-36

Oh, that's too bad for my situation then. I had hoped that KSTW was still not quite at full power. With my attic mounted Channel Master 4248 yagi with CM7775 preamp, I receive all of the Seattle DTV channels solidly on my HR10-250 DirecTivo, except for KONG-DT and KSTW-DT.

Before KSTW-DT raised power in November I received nothing, now I *sometimes* get good reception, but more often than not the signal can't quite lock. I guess the multipath issues are slightly different with KSTW's broadcast pattern to the north, because I receive KTWB and KCTS-DT from Capital Hill solidly (along with KIRO, KING and KOMO from Queen Anne). I've tried some fiddling with aiming and attenuators, but I just can't lock KSTW-DT reliably. Oh well.

Originally posted by It'sMike
Just wanted to solicit the collective wisdom here...

I have a Dish 921 receiver connected to a large old VHF/UHF antenna in the attic from previous owners. I assumed the antenna wouldn't matter much since I'm not far from the broadcast towers. I pointed it based on antennaweb's azimuth, but haven't had good results.

What I'm seeing is that the 921 can find all the digital channels, but while watching them, the receiver's signal meter jumps around a lot (large jumps within one second), causing frequent drop-outs.

I'm at the intersection of NE 156th St. and 35th Ave NE at the edge of Lake Forest Park. I guess we're slightly in the 'bowl' of Lk. Washington, but towards the top. There are some trees to my southwest as well.

Is this just a matter of getting a new UHF-only antenna? Or am I seeing multipath reflections bouncing around the lake?

Thanks!
A jumpy meter is usually due to multipath but can sometimes be caused by trees swaying in the wind. Is it less jumpy on calm days and worse on windy days?

Having your antenna in the attic does not help. You could be losing up to 50% of your possible signal. I did a topo plot from your location and you have direct LOS to the towers. I suggest you put a good UHF antenna on the roof and be prepared to experiment with location as well as antenna selection. Since you're only 8 miles from QA hill a CM 4221 would be a good place to start.

Originally posted by quarque
A jumpy meter is usually due to multipath but can sometimes be caused by trees swaying in the wind. Is it less jumpy on calm days and worse on windy days?

Having your antenna in the attic does not help. You could be losing up to 50% of your possible signal. I did a topo plot from your location and you have direct LOS to the towers. I suggest you put a good UHF antenna on the roof and be prepared to experiment with location as well as antenna selection. Since you're only 8 miles from QA hill a CM 4221 would be a good place to start.

Quarque knows a lot more than me about this, but I solved similar problems (I think--we'll see next fall when the leaves in the neighborhood are the same) by repointing the antenna as I described above. I was about to try an external antenna when I tried aiming via tuning VHF channels.

My system might not work for It'sMike, but it's quick, simple and free. If it doesn't work, then I'd try what Quarque suggests.

It actually seems better the worse the weather is. Last night (12/9) for example, I was getting a very good KING signal, which is usually hardest for me to pull in. My oversimplified mental model thinks that low overcast and rain helps dull multipath.

Thanks for the plot, quarque. It's good to know I do have LOS. I haven't done a huge amount of tinkering with the current antenna location, so I may try that, ala KaryK's suggestion. I'll probably go ahead and get the 4221 though because the old antenna is huge and a pain to mess with. I'll start inside the attic during these wet days, and then maybe go to the roof if I'm unsuccessful.

Thanks again!

Hi. I just had a Directv installer come hook me up for an hd upgrade. He put up a Winegard GS2000A antenna. He was unable to get all of the local HD channels, including KOMO, so I am a little disappointed. I live in the Canyon Park area of Bothell. Is there any options I have to try to get the other channels?

Thanks Much,

Dave Butner

Originally posted by dbutner
Hi. I just had a Directv installer come hook me up for an hd upgrade. He put up a Winegard GS2000A antenna. He was unable to get all of the local HD channels, including KOMO, so I am a little disappointed. I live in the Canyon Park area of Bothell. Is there any options I have to try to get the other channels?

Thanks Much,

Dave Butner

You'll need a better antenna. The Channel Master 4228 or 4221 are good choices in our area.

Originally posted by dbutner
Hi. I just had a Directv installer come hook me up for an hd upgrade. He put up a Winegard GS2000A antenna. He was unable to get all of the local HD channels, including KOMO, so I am a little disappointed. I live in the Canyon Park area of Bothell. Is there any options I have to try to get the other channels?

Thanks Much,

Dave Butner
Like litzdog said, you need a better antenna. Those GS2000 things are very poor. They must have gotten a trainload of them for $10 or something. CM4248 is also a good candidate. Do you have lots of trees to go through? Post your nearest intersection so I can do a Line-of Sight check. There are some low areas near you and you might be fighting some hills.

Is anyone else having trouble receiving KIRO? Seems to have disappeared, no signal whatsoever on either of my receivers.

Gone for me too (Shoreline) - normally my strongest signal.

I did notice the other night that they were finally doing local commercial inserts - no more "It's all here!" network promos... can that mean they are getting ready for Comcast??

Originally posted by Steve Smith
Is anyone else having trouble receiving KIRO? Seems to have disappeared, no signal whatsoever on either of my receivers.

They're just trying to let us know what it's like to only have HD through Comcast! :D

Mine was no signal last night on both my MyHD card and Fusion card. Now admittedly they are both run off the same cable and antenna, but the fact two others have reported the problem has convinced me I shouldn't blame the cats for messing with the cabling.

It's somewhat amazing to me how much trouble affiliates are having with HD. Part of the problem here though, if I recall right, is that KIRO has no means to contact anyone if there is a problem with the HD broadcast.

I usually view KIRO HD on BEllEXpressvu and last night KIRO HD channel said-- "OFF AIR from local affiliate)...I am hoping they are upgrading some digital stuff, like maybe fixing their sound so we don't get dolgy digital at all times when very few programs have dolby digital on Kiro....

KIRO disappeared off the air for me too. It's still gone.

Hey gang... just an update on KIRO. I shot KIRO an email and get a nice reply back from one of the station techies. He said that KIRO DT will be off the air the week of the 13th to finish up some work to bring the transmitter up to full power.

Thought you might like to know. :)

Paul

Originally posted by quarque
Like litzdog said, you need a better antenna. Those GS2000 things are very poor. They must have gotten a trainload of them for $10 or something. CM4248 is also a good candidate. Do you have lots of trees to go through? Post your nearest intersection so I can do a Line-of Sight check. There are some low areas near you and you might be fighting some hills.

Great. Thanks quarque. I'm on 19th ave SE, near intersection of 228th and 20th, near the Salmon Run apt. complex. Would a better antenna do the trick or is simply geographic limitations?

Thanks again,

Dave

KIRO is already good for me, but it would be interesting to see what more power would do for bad weather conditions. Right now KCPQ is my strongest one, even though my antenna is pointed away from it, but I have had problems when there was strong rain in the Gold Mountain area. So more power on KIRO will presumably be a good thing even for me.

Originally posted by Steve Smith
Is anyone else having trouble receiving KIRO? Seems to have disappeared, no signal whatsoever on either of my receivers.


YES!!! I dont have KIRO at all. Nothing. Seems like it went down yesterday or the day before.
Still nothing today from 7.

Originally posted by Diabeastie
Hello All.

I live on the backside of Capitol Hill, in Madison Valley, on 27th and Denny. I am going to assume that I will not be able to get most OTA HD broadcasts. I have tried SD OTA broadcasts, but I only get 22 and 9, both of which are a half mile up the hill.

Has anyone had any luck getting KING, KOMO or KIRO in my neck of the woods? Any recommendations?

Thanks for your help!

Chris

youre probably outta luck for the time being...
I'm on the other side of cap hill, around broadway and pine, and all I get is komo, king, kiro (its down right now...), Q13, and Kong.
If i move my indoor antenna around, I can usually get KCTS, UPN, and WB, but not always. PAX comes in with tremendous effort, so I dont even consider it there.

Frankly I was dissapointed to read that UPN is now at full signal strengh, because it doesnt come in very well for me, and I get all the other channels fairly well.
UPN and WB have some work to do IMO, especailly since I pick up Q13 from Tacoma perfectly, and yet living in Seattle, these channels are clearly not strong enough yet despite their closer proximity.

And, I always ALWAYS have problems watching HD content on KOMO, especailly MNF, last night was NO exception. Its really a shame (sham) because last week, the entire beginning of Lost was cut off, and then there were plenty of stuttering throughout the show. But since KOMO's SD is ABC News Now (started off well, now they just show reruns of everything and mindless Gigi Stone interviews), we can't even switch to the SD format. I dont have an NTSC tuner anymore, so I get absolutely screwed.

And sure Fox has some issues as does CBS with their football in HD, but nothing like KOMO's problems.

Originally posted by pecocus
Hey gang... just an update on KIRO. I shot KIRO an email and get a nice reply back from one of the station techies. He said that KIRO DT will be off the air the week of the 13th to finish up some work to bring the transmitter up to full power.

Thought you might like to know. :)

Paul

Does this mean that they are down just on OTA? If you have Comcast HD package do you still get KIRO-HD?

Originally posted by keithaxis
I usually view KIRO HD on BEllEXpressvu and last night KIRO HD channel said-- "OFF AIR from local affiliate)...I am hoping they are upgrading some digital stuff, like maybe fixing their sound so we don't get dolgy digital at all times when very few programs have dolby digital on Kiro....

I've heard this complaint once before about leaving DD5.1 on, even though the source may be just a stereo feed. I don't understand why leaving it at DD5.1 is a problem? If you go over to KOMO, where they are constantly switching back and forth between the two, the switching seems (to me) to cause more problems than what it's worth. KOMO's sound always pops between the two when they switch, it makes my Denon receiver switch every time KOMO switches, the volume level changes, and then someone at the station will forget to switch it back to DD5.1 when they need to.

Unless I'm missing some compelling reason to keep it switching back and forth, I would vote for leaving it on DD5.1 for ALL broadcasting. Then you're assured of an even sound throughout the evening.

imagine if KIRO took down their NTSC station for a week for tech work...people would be like WTF??!! Since it's the ATSC, nobody cares...except a small minority of us...grrrr
this means no CBS for me all week...as I've made the leap of faith to a strict diet of DTV only for tele. I can only get MDM in my building, no Comcast, and no satellite. MDM is the absolute worst cable company in the country. They actually advertise against HDTV.

Originally posted by dbutner
Does this mean that they are down just on OTA? If you have Comcast HD package do you still get KIRO-HD?

KIRO-DT is not available on Comcast cable, even when they're broadcasting .... contract disputes.

Originally posted by DrCrawn
imagine if KIRO took down their NTSC station for a week for tech work...people would be like WTF??!! Since it's the ATSC, nobody cares...except a small minority of us...grrrr

KSTW-DT was able to bring a whole new antenna and transmitter on line with minimal off-air disruption. Not sure why KIRO needs this long.

Originally posted by dbutner
Does this mean that they are down just on OTA? If you have Comcast HD package do you still get KIRO-HD?

I take it my joke about KIRO letting us know what it was like to have HD only through Comcast went right past you. ;)

Perhaps they want to give OTA users the Comcast treatment..... At least we have an idea as nto whats up...

Originally posted by dbutner
Great. Thanks quarque. I'm on 19th ave SE, near intersection of 228th and 20th, near the Salmon Run apt. complex. Would a better antenna do the trick or is simply geographic limitations?

Thanks again,

Dave
Dave - I did a plot from that intersection and it does not look good. You have a hill just to the south so you would need about a 50-foot tower to get direct LOS. You will get some refracted and relfected signals but only CH13 in Bremerton will come in solid.

It figures KIRO goes off the air at the same time CBS starts to transmit in DD 5.1!
And yes MDM is THE worst cable company in the country and more expensive than Comcast as well. Oh well I guess I could always move.

Is it possible for stations to do some sort of screeen saver side bars on the 4:3 content shows and commercials to fill the complete 16x9 picture on the HD stations(9-5, 4-1, 5-1, 7-1, etc)? Like how ESPN HD does. Would you guys want this? How do we tell our local stations to get this going?

Too bad that KIRO's own Web site makes no mention that KIRO-DT will be off the air this week.

Originally posted by DrCrawn
youre probably outta luck for the time being...
I'm on the other side of cap hill, around broadway and pine, and all I get is komo, king, kiro (its down right now...), Q13, and Kong.
If i move my indoor antenna around, I can usually get KCTS, UPN, and WB, but not always. PAX comes in with tremendous effort, so I dont even consider it there.

Frankly I was dissapointed to read that UPN is now at full signal strengh, because it doesnt come in very well for me, and I get all the other channels fairly well.
UPN and WB have some work to do IMO, especailly since I pick up Q13 from Tacoma perfectly, and yet living in Seattle, these channels are clearly not strong enough yet despite their closer proximity.

And, I always ALWAYS have problems watching HD content on KOMO, especailly MNF, last night was NO exception. Its really a shame (sham) because last week, the entire beginning of Lost was cut off, and then there were plenty of stuttering throughout the show. But since KOMO's SD is ABC News Now (started off well, now they just show reruns of everything and mindless Gigi Stone interviews), we can't even switch to the SD format. I dont have an NTSC tuner anymore, so I get absolutely screwed.

And sure Fox has some issues as does CBS with their football in HD, but nothing like KOMO's problems.

DrCrawn, et al
Your reception problem is not lack of signal strength. It's most likely TOO much signal. AND, it's probably very uneven across the whole 6mhz wide signal for what ever channel your trying to tune. If you saw what it looks like on an analyzer, and what happens as you move your antenna around, it would make more sense. Trying to get good reception out in the open downtown is hard enough. Indoors is a real challenge. Signal is splattering off everything. But when it bounces off something, it's not always perfect and linear (frequency-wise). Thus, parts of a channel signal will be stronger than others, giving a waveshape display on the analyzer/scope a choppy look, or maybe have a big dip in the middle, or.... It's the same principal for people in the burbs, like litzdog in Mill Creek. He doesn't have too much signal, but there's plenty there, if you can gather the channel level in equally across the 6mhz. His problem is the trees, mostly, and being in an attic compounds it. What makes it hard to understand is you have no way of knowing how bad the signal may really be. If it locks in, and you get a steady picture, one assumes the working channels are "perfect", when they might all really be pretty ragged. This is why moving the antenna location around a bit can work, as you're really "leveling" the wave shape, as well as possibly getting more signal.
The point I'm trying to show is that signal strength at your house is not the only thing that's important in HD reception. It can be very weak, but if it's fairly flat on the scope, and above a minimum noise level (about -15db), the receiver will lock in on it. The TV stations here are transmitting a LOT of power. If you can't get reception, the problem is most likely going to be terrain, obstacles, receiver type or antenna type, or a combination of these.
The only station that's really weak, comparitively, is ch28, from Tacoma. It has only about 6KW, compared to the rest with powers from 450kw to 975kw ! Also, ch13 transmits from Gold Mt, just SW of Bremerton, and from about 1700ft high, so it's almost line of sight to your location. The only things in the way are the buildings downtown.

The KOMO sound problem is another issue. I agree, it's really sad they can't get it fixed yet. I'm sure they're trying, but you would think something so simple could be fixed by now. And let's not forget the audio delays on ch5 news, both analog and HD. This one really drives me nuts! All they have to do is delay either the audio or video to get them in sync. What's so funny is they can't get either format synced up !!

Dan

Dan,

Can you please say more about the channel 5 audio delays. I had not noticed the problem but I will watch for it tonight after work.

How much delay are you talking about? On the entire program, or just in-studio segments, or taped segments?

BTW, you offer a GREAT service to folks here on the forum. I am a lucky one with LOS and near-perfect reception results with a $20 UHF antenna from Radio Shack located 5 feet above the top of my chimney. Of course, I have no idea what the actual slope looks like on any of my received channels, but if the end result is okay, I guess it does not matter much. I was skeptical when I started HD because my analog reception from QA and C hills is loaded with ghosts. Like I said, I am one of the lucky ones.

Larry,

Need to bug you again. Could you check if there is any chance for OTA at 78th Ave NE and NE 198th St in Kenmore. These are new roads so may not show on some maps, the closest existing intersection would be 80th and 195th. Visual inspection tells me zero but I would love to hear otherwise. Thanks.

-tq

Dan, thats great info, thanks. I should mention that I pretty much get all the channels without any problems. But, yes I do have to move my indoor antenna around to seek out KCTS, and UPN. I would consider myself lucky in the whole DTV reception thing. It doesn't hurt that I'm on the top floor of my building either.
Also, has anyone noticed KOMO really screwing up their sound on HD content, such as Lost last week. Sounded very metallic, almost like some sort of arena sounding mess? What was this all about?