I've been able to receive Channel 27 (28-1, 28-2, 28-3, 28-4) KBTS, the Bates Community College PBS station since Monday.
Also, I notice KCTS Channel 9 is now multicasting all PBS feeds.
Lastly, Channel 33-1 (32) and a couple of shopping channels from Bellevue must have boosted power because I can get them in Shoreline quite well. They were not receivable prior.
I checked briefly, but didn't find similar post. If redundant, it is as my signature:

I'm getting D-25-1 and D32 and some signal from D41 in Brier, but nothing from the major networks - ABC, NBC, CBS. I'm gonna try a better antenna and hope for the best. I wish they would boost some of the signals - i'm getting the analog portions of CBS (A7) pretty good, but nothing from D-39. Frustrating.

I am in Lynnwood (where I-5 and I-405 meet) and with the Silver Sensor pointing South-ish I am able to get KBTC (PBS Tacoma) as well. All Seattle stations are a giver. At that one antenna position I also pick up PAX and FOX/WB (13-1/13-2 from Bremerton). KCTS, WB (and FOX on DT 25) are trabsmitted from Capitol Hill. KOMO, KING, KONG, KIRO are transmitted from Queen Anne Hill. I guess you just have to try different antennas at difference positions to find the one that works. Good luck!

Hi,
I'm in North Brier, very close to alderwood mall in what appears to be a hole where signals don't reach.

I'm using a channelmaster 4221 and currently have pointed every which way from around 10' high. My neighbors would have a heartattack if I put it up on the roof.

I'm gonna try it in the attic tonight to try and grab some more channels.

Have you tried many different attennas? This is my first and, while it really beats the indoor antenna, it doesn't seem to tune in to the 3 stations I really want - ABC,NBC, and CBS - digital of course ;-)

I heard the 4221 was a good one. I never had to try that far though. I started out with Radio Shack amplified VHF/UHF and later settled with Jensen TV-920. They all worked but interference was annoying at times. The Jensen was better when I put it on a Southern window, and by closing the aluminum blind behind it, it took away the interference. I just had to have a 10' cable hanging there and to close the blind most of the times. I tried the Terk-55 outdoors and it was worse than the cheapest rabbit ear from Radio Shack. The silver sensor was my latest try and it worked wonder. It is weird that you cannot receive the stations from Queen Anne Hill given its proximity to Capitol Hill. Do you have clear sight to that direction? One solution is to move to my neighborhood. Cheers.

Are the digital signals weaker than the analog? I find that I can get a lot of analog signals coming from tacoma and seattle by adjusting the antenna. thanks for the help.

I have no ideas, sorry. But with RS and Jensen antennas I got snowy 22 (WB) and 16 (KONG). With the SS, 16 is crystal clear, 22 is a bit less. I have not tried other channels. My TU-DST52 roughly pulls in most stations at 85%, UPN at 60% and KBTC at 33%. Yes, 33% and no dropping. I did have some difficulties with CBS, try 32 (KONG), 38 (ABC) and 48 (NBC) to see if you have any luck. Does your receiver have a signal meter? Check to see if it gets but cannot lock on the signal. May be you get too much multipath? Circuit City does carry the Silver Sensor, you can borrow and try it out.

hey thanks for the help.
I'll go by circuit city and pick up a silver sensor as well as try my channelmaster in the attic. the things we do for hdtv :-)

hdnewbie,

If you care to post your nearest intersection I can plot your line-of-site to the QA towers in my topo program and see what might be in the way. I have done this for a number of people so they would know if they needed a 100' mast to clear some hill in the way. I have the 4228 antenna in north Seattle and I get very good signals on everything except the Bates channels in Tacoma. The digital signals are much weaker than a normal analog channel. Sometimes only 10% strength.

Larry

Hey larry,

i'm on a culdesac on 215th pl. sw in brier,wa 98036. The nearest intersection is poplar and vine/216th pl. I played around in the attic tonite and nothing came up. I'm gonna try a silver sensor tommorow and hope for the best. thanks for the help.

hdnewbie,

Sorry I took so long to respond - I was out of town.

Your line-of-site to QA has one large problem: 150 hill to your southwest (about 3/4 mile away). aka the Mountlake hump. 100' tower? Perhaps a helium ballon with copper wire tether? Or wait for Comcast?

sorry, it does not look good,

Larry

oh well,
i'll wait for the new Dish Network HD service. 100' antenna would be great for the neighborhood ;-) thanks anyway.

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and I'm hoping to get some advice. I'm in the final stages of completing my HT (projector should arrive any day now). I will have a DVI input for HDTV available but I don't know which way to go:

1.) OTA: can I even get a signal? There are hills around here that may be in the line of sight. How do I find out without buying gear, setting it up and then return it if I can't receive the signals?

2.) DirecTV or Comcast: I currently have digital cable and I'm not overly impressed with the content I get for the $90 or so I pay them every month. As everybody knows - no local HD channels either and who knows when they will finally deliver. So I guess my question is if DirecTV is any better wrt content and pq?

I'm sorry in case these questions have been answered before. I tried a search but the site is so slow in response that it simply timed out.
Thanx in advance for your input!

Don Andres

Originally posted by Don Andres

1.) OTA: can I even get a signal? There are hills around here that may be in the line of sight. How do I find out without buying gear, setting it up and then return it if I can't receive the signals?

2.) DirecTV or Comcast: I currently have digital cable and I'm not overly impressed with the content I get for the $90 or so I pay them every month. As everybody knows - no local HD channels either and who knows when they will finally deliver. So I guess my question is if DirecTV is any better wrt content and pq?

Welcome to AVSForum!!

1) Check out http://www.antennaweb.org and tell us more about your specific location in the Issaquah area.

2) I gave up on AT&T Cable (now Comcast) some time ago and switched to DirecTV. I never had digital cable but my son did and it was terrible compared to my DirecTV. We also subscribe to DirecTV local channels so we can record programs on our DirecTV with TiVo receivers/PVRs.

Comcast is more likely to eventually provide local channels since DirecTV lacks bandwidth to provide local HDTV local channels in even the major markets. But if you can get OTA (over the air) HDTV with an antenna, you should.

One simple test you could try is to tune in analog channel UHF 16 (broadcasts from Queeen Anne Hill, where KOMO, KIRO, KING and KONG digital transmitters are located) and analog UHF channel 22 (from Capitol Hill, with KCTS, KSTW/KCPQ and KTWB digital). If you get a passable picture on those 2 UHF channels from your antenna, you stand a good chance of receiving most of the local digitals OTA with your same antenna. Even if the analog UHF channels have ghosts, the digital signals from the same sites will be ghost-free and better quality than you might expect, even when not broadcasting actual HD programs.

Good Luck. Ask more questions if needed. Use PM if you want. There are many Seattle area folks on the forum that have a wealth of experience to share.

Thank you, Dave. I guess I'll pick up an antenna at Radio Shack and see if I can tune into any of the channels you mentioned.

I live about 500 yards south east of the Newport Way and highway 900 intersection, up on a hill but with higher hills west of here. I checked out antennaweb.org and based on their orientation map I might have reception. I'll give it a shot.
Thanx again,

Don Andres

I have driven by that intersection many times. I am trying to picture in my mind which hill you are referring to but my old memory is not cooperating.

Do any of your neighbors have an outdoor TV antenna? If so, you might ask them what they are able to receive, although sometimes a few yards difference can make a big difference in reception.

Let us know how you do.

Larry, can you plug in 195th and 12th NW (Shoreline 98177) in your program for reception for CH 13 and 16. I am able to get 4,5 and 7 using a indoor RS bow-tie antenna. I don't understand why I can get King but not Kong, don't they use the same tower. Thanks

richmondbeach,

Your line of site to Capitol Hill looks pretty good. The path to QA hill is marginal. There is a 50 foot hill about 1/8 mile south of you that looks to be the worst problem. You may need a mast on the roof to get decent reception. I would try a good high-gain antenna first and put it up as high as is convenient for a test. I believe KONG is on QA hill but their power may be much lower than 4,5,7.

good luck,

Larry

Don Andres,

I plotted your line of sight as well. It looks pretty bad. There is an 850 foot hill about 2 miles northwest of you. I am guessing that your elevation is 300-400 feet. So you have quite a difference to overcome. I would not count on any OTA HD.

Larry

Interesting thread.... Out here in Duvall the topo maps never looked good to my installer but when they tried we got all local channels (4,5,7,9 (few variations of),11,13-1,13-2,16,22-1,22-2 etc) and even Fox from Bremerton I believe (we get 2 Fox channels in digital).

5 only came in after fitting an antenuator on the end of the line. All are 100% on the Samsung signal meter - 5 somestimes varies from 77% to 93% to 100%

With a Samsung TS160 anyone know how I can try for channels that don't scan in strong enough? What ones am I missing?

Thank you for doing this, Larry! Too bad you got bad news for me . . . :(

I guess I'm stuck with Comcast, eventually they'll have local channels in HD on cable. DirecTV will probably never do that because of bandwidth limitations so I think it doesn't make much sense for me to switch.

Thanx again.

Don Andres

pdampier,

Out of curiosity, what is your nearest intersection? I would like to see what the topo profile looks like so I can give more accurate advice to people in the future.

I don't know about the '160 but on the '150 you just punch in the digital channel number on the remote (e.g. 48 for chan 4). If it can lock in on a signal at some point it adds it to the list of channels and will show up as 'available' in the favorites list. This seems to work reliably for channels that are not found during the auto scan.

pdampier

I'd be interested in your antenna hardware config. I'm in a situation where topographically it doesn't look great (172nd Ave NE and NE 42nd in Redmond), but I have had some signal blips indoor w/ a Terk55 (no comments please) just holding up towards the ceiling at the West end of the living room. I haven't tried anything attic or outdoor yet because I'm debating about buying a better antenna....

You could try 282nd Place NE and NE Big Rock Road (98019) as the intersection... My road is actually NE 138th Place but its not on many maps yet...

Let me know your findings - Quite frankly I'm amazed I get a signal let alone 100% on all locals!

Re the antenna - I'm not sure of the exact make - it was installed for me but it looks like a 4248 on http://www.channelmaster.com/pages/u1.htm

There is a pre-amp on it and as I said an antenuator on the end of the coax as the signal was coming in to strong according to the installer...

pdampier,

Your line-of-site to QA and Capitol Hill is what I have been calling "marginal". In other words, there is a large plateau east of Redmond at 600 feet and your elevation is about 430 feet. Since the plateau is 4 miles away, a small change in your elevation (i.e. a mast on a 2-story house) can make a sizable difference. When I plot the profile the line just barely clears the plateau so it is too close to call. If you have your antenna up high enough you should have a clear path to both tower locations. Are you east or west of Big Rock Road (east side is ~ 60 feet higher).

I have the ChannelMaster 4228 antenna. Works quite well considering I too have a marginal situation. I read 50% strength without any amp. I may add another 10 feet of mast at some point. I find it interesting that the chart on the channelmaster site shows your antenna as "fringe" with a range of 45 miles and mine as " ? " with a range of 60 miles! I think the '45' must be a misprint - yagi design is very good for distance.

What brand and model amp are you using?

generationxwing,

Your line of site looks awful. You are at about 100 feet and 2 miles west of you is a 500 foot hill. The towers would have to be a mile high to give you a direct path (or a 200 foot mast at your end). You are probably getting some reflections (the blips) with your terk antenna. I would not invest a lot in OTA, wait for cable or dish HD. Or, move.

quarque: Yeah I'm on the east side of Big Rock Road. My installer also called the area "marginal" - He'd had no real success in Duvall until this one... Unfortunately I don't know the make of the pre-amp that was put in...

EDIT: Forgot to mention. Antenna is mounted about 2ft above the gutter on the 2nd floor of our house. Not even above the roofline.

Originally posted by quarque
generationxwing,

Your line of site looks awful. You are at about 100 feet and 2 miles west of you is a 500 foot hill. The towers would have to be a mile high to give you a direct path (or a 200 foot mast at your end). You are probably getting some reflections (the blips) with your terk antenna. I would not invest a lot in OTA, wait for cable or dish HD. Or, move.

Yeah, that's kind of what I figured, never hurts to ask though........I can't move, just bought this place.....d'OH.

:(

Curious what you get for the topo of an address in Bonney Lake.

241st and 123rd East
98321

I have tried 4 antenna and paid an installer another time with no success.

keithaxis,

I see no major problem at all unless I am referencing the wrong point. My topo map is a little out of date so I have to guess where your house is. It appears you are about 36 miles from QA towers so any decent antenna should work. There is nothing in the way unless you are on the downside of a valley slope nearby and perhaps you are not at the elevation I think. Would you by any chance have GPS coordinates? Do you have large trees in the way? Do you see higher ground when you look NNW?

NNW is a hill (2 blocks away) about 100 feet highwith many fir trees. I was curious if that was my only obstacle, which it appears it may be. I am about 550 elevation with that hill probably going to 650 feet altitude.

OK - that explains it. I had your location closer to the hill so 25 feet of elevation did not look significant. You are obviously further to the southeast. Yes, 100 feet of hill that close and so far from the towers makes it a "very unlikely" situation. You would need to get your antenna at least 75 up in the air. Of couse, then there are the trees...

I just saw in another post that some guy in Kentucky picked up brief signals from a station 1062 miles away(skip propagation), so I guess anything is possible!

quarque...

I was wondering if you can look at the topo for me too? I have made some efforts to get reception - without luck. But standing on my roof I can see sky surprisingly low. I'm actually pretty close to generationxwing - although I'm a bit higher and I think the hill above me isn't quite as high. 169th and 36th - 47:38.34N 122:06.52W

Thanks

trandy,

Well, I wouldn't call it awful, but perhaps "very unlikely". You would have to overcome a 150 foot rise about 1/2 mile west. Unless you can get your antenna well above the ground (50-75') you will not have a chance. Sorry.

Doing all these plots makes me wonder what OTA analog was like in Seattle (before cable). Must have been lots of people with little to no TV. I came to Seattle in '79 so it has always been cable for me until HD arrived. Luckily I am on a ridge with just barely a line to QA and CH towers. I suppose we could ask all the stations to jack up their towers another 1000 feet! That would double/triple the potential OTA audience.

quarque

9308 81st Street SW
Tacoma, 98498

I get 5 and 7 with little to no drop outs. 4 and 9 are somewhat problematic
11 and 13 are unusable. I know I have tress in the way, a water tower just to the left, but am I also fighting hills?

5 is odd where I am in Duvall. I get all the other locals rock solid no glitches at all... Just recently 5 is down to 77% and the odd break up... Must be atmospherics? Does 5 broadcast on a lower power? They are on the same Queen Anne Towers as 4 and 7 etc right?

quarque,

Hi, could you try 212th Ave and NE 10TH PL in Sammamish please?
I'm loath to buy a MyHD card and antenna until I know if there is hope! I'm hopeful as I'm reasonably high up in Sammamish, but who knows? Well, I guess you do :)

Many thanks,
David.

Originally posted by pdampier
5 is odd where I am in Duvall. I get all the other locals rock solid no glitches at all... Just recently 5 is down to 77% and the odd break up... Must be atmospherics? Does 5 broadcast on a lower power? They are on the same Queen Anne Towers as 4 and 7 etc right?

KOMO-4, KING-5 and KIRO-7 each have their own (separate) towers. All three are on Queen Anne Hill. KONG-16 also shares the KING-5 tower.

Do you get KSTW-DT over there (36-1/11-1)? In the beginning, they were focusing their limited-power digital signal toward Tacoma. So, many folks south and north of their tower are able to see their digital channel. But folks east and west would have little or no signal to work with. Perhaps they have increased their power and eliminated the directionality of their signal by now (although I have not heard so).

Yeah 11-1 comes in fine... Its just King5 and Kong16 that seem to be affected by atmospherics just recently...

I occasionally get breakups on KING-DT (5) here, east of Renton. I never see them on KOMO-DT (4) or KIRO-DT (7). I don't watch a lot of KONG-DT, but so far I have not seen the dropouts there.

I just moved to near 162nd Ave and NE 43rd in Redmond and I'm trying to pull in HDs from an antenna in my attic. I just got a Winegard PR-8800 that a friend wasn't using that I've set up, but I'm only getting channels 5 and 7 adequately. For instance, is coming in really poorly (3-6 on the signal meter out of 100). I do have a 50 foot hill about 1/4 mile away that I have to clear that has trees and houses on it, but I'm not sure that is such a big problem. I do get KIRO with an adequate signal (around 50 out of 100). I wonder if I may have too much gain? Should I try a CM4228? How can I tell if I need to use an attenuator?

If anyone wants to buy a house in Sammamish, I have one for sale with an RSDB mounted in the attic that has a line of sight to QA, and gets all stations quite well :-). If it doesn't sell soon, I may go over there and take that thing out of the attic and see if it works in the new house.

jameskollar,

you are fighting a 430 foot hill about 1.7 miles NNE and your elevation is about 260 feet. Looks very marginal.


dlinsley,

no major problems that I can see - go for it.

del47618,

you also have a 520 foot hill 2 miles west and your elevation is about 280 feet. I would call this very marginal (even "unlikely") for reliable HD.

quarque, thanks a lot for looking. I didn't realize that the bridle ridge hill was so high. I'm torn as to whether or not I should shell out $50 for a new preamp and give that a try, or just give up and wait for Comcast to offer HD. A nearby tree on public land is going to block my DirecTV view in about 2 years so I might as well start working on becoming a slave to the Comcast man.

quarque,

It looks like we will be moving (again). Could you let me know how it looks in the Fairwood area of Renton? The closest major intersection for us will be SE 184th St and SE Petrovisky Road.

Thanks,

Andy

Andy,

We live in Fairwood West (west of 148th Ave SE and the golf course) and I get everything from Seattle, Gold Mountain and Bellevue. It sounds like you will be a bit further east than us. Reception is good here with a $20 yagi UHF only antenna from RatShack. Mine is aimed to just barely bring in Gold Mountain (KCPQ) to the west and Tiger Mountain (I think that's where they are) to the east for PAX and ShopNBC (although I don't watch them). I have no reception of KBTS (PBS 28, DT 27) from Tacoma and don't feel I need it with KCTS available.

Thanks Dave. I actually have the same Radio Shack antenna as you, but its been gathering dust since I'm in a reception black hole right now. I don't really care about PAX or ShopNBC, so that should make it a bit easier.

Is your antenna in the attic or on the roof?

My UHF antenna is on the roof, about 5 feet above the peak and about 5 feet below my VHF antenna, which now days is only used if all else fails (DTV, DirecTV locals and basic cable). I tried several indoor antennae and none of them got me a usable signal, including the Silver Sensor. I think I needed to get above the small upward grade and trees between me and Seattle.

Andy,

Your line of sight looks excellent - not even close to a problem with QA or CH towers. You may have trouble with stuff in Tacoma.

Larry

Thanks, good to hear. When you say Tacoma, are you including the stuff on Gold Mountain in Bremerton?

I have no trouble with Gold Mountain from here. I suspect he means KBTS, the Tacoma PBS station.

I also get KSTW fine. They are a Tacoma licensed station but their transmitter is on Capitol Hill along with KCTS and KTWB.

Let us know how well you do with reception when you get moved in.

I can live without KTBS. My only requirements are KOMO, KING, KIRO and KCPQ. Anything else is pure gravy.

Thanks to both of you Larry and Dave for your help.

Funny how we've got all the work to do in packing and planning the move and I'm worrying about my HD reception and whether to keep cable or go back to DirecTV! :D

Originally posted by drewba

Funny how we've got all the work to do in packing and planning the move and I'm worrying about my HD reception and whether to keep cable or go back to DirecTV! :D


I should have had the foresight to worry about my OTA as well as DirecTV...*sigh*

Oh well, moving is easy, getting HD isn't. :D

I live in Montlake right at the base of Capital Hill (19th and Blaine if you'd like to look it up Larry)...

I have a Terk TV35 mounted on the roof and I get KIRO reasonable strong (bounces between 70-85), and the WB/Fox off the hill (22-1, 22-2), but nothing else. I'm guessing I'm out of luck to get more, but if anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears. Its frustrating to live so close the the antennas and still not be able to pick up the channels.

Originally posted by generationxwing
I should have had the foresight to worry about my OTA as well as DirecTV...*sigh*

Oh well, moving is easy, getting HD isn't. :D

I understand. The last time I moved (only a year ago, long story), I moved from a house with almost perfect reception of everything to one in Issaquah that could only get KCPQ. I didn't plan this move for OTA HD, but it is a nice bonus.

jamesmil,

Your LOS to QA hill and anything outside Seattle looks very marginal (unlikely). But to Capitol Hill you should be OK. Hope you can survive on 2 channels. You are in quite a low spot there. But hey, the arboretum is close!

Larry

drewba,

I think real estate agents and the MLS need to start giving an OTA rating for each house! It is starting to become important to many people.

Larry

Originally posted by quarque
drewba,

I think real estate agents and the MLS need to start giving an OTA rating for each house! It is starting to become important to many people.

Larry

I am all for that! :)

I am hating the fact that I'll have to deal with Comcast just to get my local HD's.....

Thanks for all the work though Larry!

jamesmil,

Have you tried the Zenith Silver Sensor Indoor Antenna? I live in West Seattle and have perfect reception of all locals with it. I tried the Terk TV-55 plus others and now believe what most on this forum say that all Terk's are bad news. Quarque has a good point about your low spot. It might be worth a try with the Silver Sensor though. You can pick one up at Sears for $39.99 and good return policy. Hope this helps!!

Could someone list the coordinates for each of the towers in Seattle and some information on reception? I have a copy of Delorme TopoUSA and can easily do profile maps from my house to the towers.

I had poor luck picking up OTA VHF when we first moved to the house using an attic antenna, so I'm not expecting much better with OTA HDTV. I wouldn't mind seeing what is possible though.

http://www.antennaweb.org obviously knows the location of the towers, but it doesn't show them on their information page.

alex

Originally posted by Alex Wetmore
Could someone list the coordinates for each of the towers in Seattle and some information on reception? alex

Here are the transmitter sites you are looking for:

http://www.100000watts.com/tv/SEA.html

Larry,

I'm about to move to Woodinville (About 200 yards NW of the corner of Paradise Lake Rd and Woodinville-Duvall Rd), and I wanted to know if there a chance for me to get OTA-HD reception there. AntennaWeb says yes, but I not convinced. Could you please check it out for me?

Thank you very much in advance!

-eric

Eric - your line of site looks rather marginal. There is a large hill about 2 miles SW of you. If you can get your antenna on a mast on the roof you might have a chance. I would try borrowing some equipment if you can before investing in your own stuff. Or consult a professional installer. They might be able to give you a more definite answer for a price.

Larry

Thanks Larry, I'll give it a try.

-eric

Larry,

Could you please check the following address:

21802 SE 20th Street
Sammamish

This forum simply rocks!

I'd like to see what I'm fighting here. Of the major channels, I can get 4, 5, and 13 with some dropouts. 7 is nearly impossible. This is with a CM4221 leaning against a post on the roof (I haven't bothered to put up a mast yet).

I'm at the intersection of 228th St. and NE Redmond Fall City Road in Redmond (98053).

Originally posted by sergepaxton
Larry,

Could you please check the following address:

21802 SE 20th Street
Sammamish

This forum simply rocks!

You have no line-of-site problem whatsoever. Any reception problems would be due to local conditions like trees or multipath interference. What sort of problems are you having?

Larry

Originally posted by pbishop
I'd like to see what I'm fighting here. Of the major channels, I can get 4, 5, and 13 with some dropouts. 7 is nearly impossible. This is with a CM4221 leaning against a post on the roof (I haven't bothered to put up a mast yet).

I'm at the intersection of 228th St. and NE Redmond Fall City Road in Redmond (98053).

I am surprised you get anything. Your elevation is about 200 feet and there is a 550 foot hill about 1 mile WSW that should be blocking all signals. You must be picking up reflections somehow. How steady are your best channels?

Larry

Please check 216th Ave S and 14th Ave S in Des Moines, WA 98198.

The VHF stuff comes in poorly, but UHF is usually OK. I have line of sight to Tacoma proper, more or less, but the SEATAC plateau might be in the way of Seattle. Verizon cellphone reception is very poor. So I'm afraid I might be in a shadow.

Thanks

Originally posted by quarque
I am surprised you get anything. Your elevation is about 200 feet and there is a 550 foot hill about 1 mile WSW that should be blocking all signals. You must be picking up reflections somehow. How steady are your best channels?

Larry

That's what I figured. It's that Sammamish plateau. If I aim the antenna right, I can get 4 and 5 reasonably solid. I say reasonably because there will usually be an audio dropout or two per show. The Dish 6000 never shows above 80% for either one. I only get 7 on rare days, but it never sticks around for long.

Thanks for checking. I guess I won't put too much more effort into getting OTA signals. Now I just need to cut down some trees so I can get the other satellite slots for the new HDTV packages. :)

Originally posted by pbishop
That's what I figured. It's that Sammamish plateau. If I aim the antenna right, I can get 4 and 5 reasonably solid. I say reasonably because there will usually be an audio dropout or two per show. The Dish 6000 never shows above 80% for either one. I only get 7 on rare days, but it never sticks around for long.

Thanks for checking. I guess I won't put too much more effort into getting OTA signals. Now I just need to cut down some trees so I can get the other satellite slots for the new HDTV packages. :)

So your OTA HD choices are wait for Comcast or go with Bell ExpressVu from Canada, since they carry some of the Seattle locals.

Larry and all, hello.
I am a new owner of Samsung DTV(HLN431/SIRT165/DVDHD931)equipment. I am trying for OTA reception and would like an assesment of my location. My LOS distance is only ~10 miles due west, I am in Bremerton, 710 NW Fairwood way, corner Fairwood and Nels Nelson. I am a Ham and have a 50' tower avalible. I have a CM 3023 yagi and 7775 preamp ready to try(anyone want to climb a tower):D thanks in advance
Mike

Originally posted by Al Shing
Please check 216th Ave S and 14th Ave S in Des Moines, WA 98198.

The VHF stuff comes in poorly, but UHF is usually OK. I have line of sight to Tacoma proper, more or less, but the SEATAC plateau might be in the way of Seattle. Verizon cellphone reception is very poor. So I'm afraid I might be in a shadow.

Thanks

Al - your elevation is about 160 feet and the hill/plateau to the north is about 400 feet at 3/4 mile from you. This makes your LOS very marginal. You may get reception but probably not steady. Your situation would be helped considerably by a tall mast on the roof of your (tall?) house.

Larry

Originally posted by mrmike99
Larry and all, hello.
I am a new owner of Samsung DTV(HLN431/SIRT165/DVDHD931)equipment. I am trying for OTA reception and would like an assesment of my location. My LOS distance is only ~10 miles due west, I am in Bremerton, 710 NW Fairwood way, corner Fairwood and Nels Nelson. I am a Ham and have a 50' tower avalible. I have a CM 3023 yagi and 7775 preamp ready to try(anyone want to climb a tower):D thanks in advance
Mike

Mike - your elevation is 225 feet and you have a 280 foot hill due east about 1/3 mile. The angle from the ground over that peak just misses the tower tops on QA hill. So if you can get your antenna even 25 feet off the ground you have a good chance at clear reception. Now 50 feet would guarantee it. If you used something like a CM 4228 you could hang it part way up the mast due its flat profile. I take it the yagi is not mounted. What IS at the top of that tower?

Larry

Larry
sounds great! well at the top of the tower is a 6 ele. 3band yagi on a 24ft boom, on top of the 10 foot mast is a 11 ele. 2m yagi. and the 3023 will fit real nice inbetween the pair at ~ 53', rotatable. now, there are many 100' fir trees close by, so I am going to add an CM 7777 just so i dont have to go back up the tower. I tryed an RS ant. at about 20' with cheap coax and could only get 13-1 & 13-2. i figured i was loosing more in the coax than i was getting from the ant. thanks i will keep you posted on my results
Mike

Larry,

Don't know if you're getting sick of this yet, but... if you aren't, I'm at:

32424 NE 136th Street
Duvall, WA 98019

Using a Silver Sensor I've been able to get a couple of Bellevue shopping channels, and some blips on a couple of other channels. Nothing good.
I've tried the Channel Master 8 bay bowtie (forgot the model #) at different locations outside, but the best results so far have been with the Silver Sensor in the house. I use different dishes and receivers to get HD, but would like to get rid of one satellite subscription if possible.

Thanks for your time!

Jeff

6Dishes: I'm about 1.5 miles up NE Big Rock road from the "new" Safeway and I get all the local HD channels fine (NBC sometimes glitches as its around 77% but all others are 100%) - Got an antenna, preamp and antennutor.. Antenna is mounted just about gutter height on back of house.

pdampier
I'm up Big Rock, north of the Stillwater church. I don't know if you're familiar with Kelly Road, but I'm west of Kelly Road, up the hill from the swamp. I have a UM 1000A for mpeg, MY HD for local, and a Digicypher HD decoder for DC2 signals.

Lots of satellite related HD, but my wife just wants the locals. She'd be happy with KOMO. Hope you guys can help me out...

Jeff

Originally posted by 6Dishes
Larry,

Don't know if you're getting sick of this yet, but... if you aren't, I'm at:

32424 NE 136th Street
Duvall, WA 98019

Using a Silver Sensor I've been able to get a couple of Bellevue shopping channels, and some blips on a couple of other channels. Nothing good.
I've tried the Channel Master 8 bay bowtie (forgot the model #) at different locations outside, but the best results so far have been with the Silver Sensor in the house. I use different dishes and receivers to get HD, but would like to get rid of one satellite subscription if possible.

Thanks for your time!

Jeff
Jeff - your elevation is about 525 feet and there is a 550 foot hill SW of you about 1/8 mile. If you get your antenna high enough you should have a good shot at the QA towers. The CM 4228 is the antenna you referred to. It is the one I use and lots of others as well. It should work well if you get it at leat 20 feet or so off the ground. It is fairly directional.

And, no, I'm not sick of it yet, just deposit another 25 cents...

Larry

<Jeff - your elevation is about 525 feet and there is a 550 foot hill SW of you about 1/8 mile. If you get your antenna high enough you should have a good shot at the QA towers. The CM 4228 is the antenna you referred to. It is the one I use and lots of others as well. It should work well if you get it at leat 20 feet or so off the ground. It is fairly directional.

And, no, I'm not sick of it yet, just deposit another 25 cents...

Larry>


Thanks Larry,

You give me hope! I probably just haven't found the right spot yet. I have a bunch of trees around me, and haven't tried the CM again since I took some down.

Your 25 cents is in the bank, but you really should up your rates...

I appreciate the info. Thanks!

anyone notice audio drop-out on miami csi last night ..7/7

Had all sorts of semi-continuous audio glitches on CBS in Seattle the last few days....

Just curious, does anyone have a good estimate of the number of OTA DTV users in the Seattle area? How fast/slow is it growing, or does it grow? Perhaps we can count ourselves and friends/neighbors. OK, I am one.

I am one too! ... for a total of two counted so far.

me three

Larry
I wish i found this thread before I bought my Samsung t151 and Channel Master 4221. They will be arriving is the next couple of days. Can you check my location for the the changes of getting a good OTA.
I live in the Millcreek area 54th ave SE and Puget park drive. The air in that direction looks good to me, but it sounds like big hills can mess things. The big question is will I have OTA equipment for sale....Thanks Mike

Larry
I wish i found this thread before I bought my Samsung t151 and Channel Master 4221. They will be arriving is the next couple of days. Can you check my location for the the changes of getting a good OTA.
I live in the Millcreek area 54th ave SE and Puget park drive. MY address 14929 54th ave se.
The air in that direction looks good to me, but it sounds like big hills can mess things. The big question is will I have OTA equipment for sale....Thanks Mike

Larry,

I'm sick of waiting for Comcast. Can you run the following intersection?

143rd St SE & 61st Ave SE
Everett, WA
98208

This is in the Silver Firs housing development just NE of Mill Creek. I have a two story house and plan on putting an antenna about 8 ft above the roof line so figure about 35ft. above the ground. A roof mounted antenna would actually be going against CC&R for my association. I'm debating whether to just try it and hope nobody complains (would be mostly hid by trees) or using an attic antenna. Given this situation and my distance from the main towers in Seattle (don't care about the Tacoma tower or any others) what would you guys recommend for both situations? Assuming I have a chance at reception anyway. According to AntennaWeb.org I just barely clear a large tree when aiming at Queen Anne and Capitol Hill. The only other thing I see when looking that direction is sky. There are tons of trees in all other directions though.

Also very curious if anybody knows the answer to this question. When the stations cease analog broadcasts and go strictly digital will they start broadcasting digital on VHF? If so, would digital VHF be easier or more difficult to receive. I was thinking a UHF antenna on my roof would be less noticed than a huge VHF/UHF combo. If VHF would work good in the attic I'd probably be OK.

Thanks for any help.

Brent

I'm an OTA'er.

Wow Big_Dawg! You're only a few blocks away from me (1/4 mile or less). Perhaps if Larry gives you a no go and it looks good for me you've already got a buyer for your equipment.

Actually, I've often wished I was where you are at. From just eyeballing it you're probably slightly higher in elevation from me and I know your division in Silver Firs has way fewer trees than where I'm at. In either case I think we're both at a fairly high elevation. We're actually on a huge hill when you think about it as the Snohomish valley is just .5 to 1 mile NE of us. It's quite a long steep hill to drive down Seattle Hill Rd. into the valley and driving down Mill Creek Rd. to the Bothell Everett Highway is also pretty steep. The question is is there anything higher between us and the towers. That's what Larry can tell us. What do you say Larry?

Keep me posted Mike on your reception. You sticking that antenna in your attic or risking a CC&R violation? Don't know what kind of HT equipment you have but if you want to check out a 110" diagonal FP system let me know. Noticed your a new member. WELCOME!

Brent

Small World (BJM)
Yes I'm on a little higher ground than you are and I will also be installing it on a 2 story house. I suppose I will be risking a CC&R but what are they going to do tell me to take it down. So I'm rebel. Only 2 houses can see it...
It will be sitting right next to my (2) dishes and the the 4221 channel master is small in size and looks more like a BBQ grill then a antenna. What are you doing next week I need someone to tell me I've got the ant. in the right spot. It better work I had to work the wife hard on this one.
It will be good practice for your when Larry gives us the thumbs up. Hit me with another PM....Big Dawg.

There are many posts in the AVS Forum regarding your rights to place a television reception antenna and/or dish on your home per FCC rulings that supersede any local government or homeowner association rules.

That's good news Budget_HT. Thanks.

Mike, I'd love to help you out some evening next week as soon as you get your gear. I'm definately not afraid of heights so no problem with getting on the roof. Just send me another PM when you're ready to go.

Brent

Originally posted by Big_Dawg
Larry
I wish i found this thread before I bought my Samsung t151 and Channel Master 4221. They will be arriving is the next couple of days. Can you check my location for the the changes of getting a good OTA.
I live in the Millcreek area 54th ave SE and Puget park drive. MY address 14929 54th ave se.
The air in that direction looks good to me, but it sounds like big hills can mess things. The big question is will I have OTA equipment for sale....Thanks Mike
You lucky dawg. You are dead-even with the base of QA at 18.2 miles and there is nuttin' in the way (well, perhaps some trees or houses?). Get your antenna in the right place, aim it upwards ~10 deg. & happy viewing!

Larry

Originally posted by BJM
Larry,

I'm sick of waiting for Comcast. Can you run the following intersection?

143rd St SE & 61st Ave SE
Everett, WA
98208

Brent
You are an even luckier dawg than the Big_Dawg, being 75 feet higher up. Your main problem may be trees or houses. A number of people have had good luck with the Channel Master 4228 (as I have also). It is an 8-bay bowtie that presents a wide and tall area for signal capture. The trick is finding the sweet spot around or on your house. It may not be the roof. Good luck!

Hmmm... this is turning into a cottage industry. Let's see, laptop with TopoUSA, HD receiver, RatShack bowtie mobile antenna...say $100 site checkout fee... 5 sites per day.... carry the 3, hmmm.... I may quit my day job.

Larry

Hi Larry --

I am another Duvall person. 278th Ave NE between 150th and Manion. Can you check things out for me?

I am just now thinking about buying a MyHD card and antenna, I would have no idea what flavor I need. I am hoping to just stick one up in my attic...

Big Dawg & BJM:
I'm in the same neck of the woods as you two. I live at 128th St & 29th Ave - roughly 2 miles NW of you guys. I get great reception with a Channel Master 4248 on my roof - and I'm in a hole. All of my signals come in at a minimum of 80 for all networks that are (or will be) broadcasting in HD - ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, Fox. I also get uninterrupted reception on all the other digital stations.
Good luck!
Tom

.."cottage industry"... my eye...check-out my website, WWW.ISFMD.COM, click the antenna link...there you will see a service entitled "site signal survey" . the prospective ota viewer engages us to visit his property to tune-in and quantify any and all uhf channels dedicated to atsc signals. we do this with a spectrum analyzer which, when said frequencies are found and quantified, lets the client know exactly which digital channels he is able to receive and at what reliability level. then he is able to make antenna decisions based on known values...number of channels, which channels, reliability of channels...zero guess work. if he is a go, we know what antenna design will be superior, rotor question answered, placement decision made. this service is $75.00...or free if we are engaged to do the install.
we also offer the existing antenna optimization service...same basic procedure, from a known spot...check the antennas focus, evaluate antennas design suitability, as well as the wiring and installation integrity.

test reports, observations and recommendations reports given...again, $75.00,,,applicable towards any service orders.

somewhere in here, your analysis protocol would seem to be a valuable addition. if you can out-line a merged system of superior value, and would be interested in participating let me know..

thanx

robb

seattle

robb@isfmd.com

A roof mounted antenna would actually be going against CC&R for my association

Not if thats what is needed to receive a signal - It can be up to 12ft above roof line if I recall and the CC&R's don't count.

To all talking about CC&R's. The FCC regs overule them. Search this place and you will find. I just forget the FCC web site page that addresses this issue.

My Sweet Spot in Woodinville

Most of the time reception

Originally posted by isfmd
.."cottage industry"... my eye...check-out my website, WWW.ISFMD.COM, click the antenna link...there you will see a service entitled "site signal survey" . the prospective ota viewer engages us to visit his property to tune-in and quantify any and all uhf channels dedicated to atsc signals. we do this with a spectrum analyzer which, when said frequencies are found and quantified, lets the client know exactly which digital channels he is able to receive and at what reliability level. then he is able to make antenna decisions based on known values...number of channels, which channels, reliability of channels...zero guess work. if he is a go, we know what antenna design will be superior, rotor question answered, placement decision made. this service is $75.00...or free if we are engaged to do the install.
we also offer the existing antenna optimization service...same basic procedure, from a known spot...check the antennas focus, evaluate antennas design suitability, as well as the wiring and installation integrity.

test reports, observations and recommendations reports given...again, $75.00,,,applicable towards any service orders.

somewhere in here, your analysis protocol would seem to be a valuable addition. if you can out-line a merged system of superior value, and would be interested in participating let me know..

thanx

robb

seattle

robb@isfmd.com
robb - I was obviously joking about the "cottage industry", need I say more? All I do is plot people's LOS using a topo program so they can find out if there are major obstacles in the way, for Free. Didn't mean to insinuate anything about professional services.

Larry

Originally posted by Sillyboy
Hi Larry --

I am another Duvall person. 278th Ave NE between 150th and Manion. Can you check things out for me?

I am just now thinking about buying a MyHD card and antenna, I would have no idea what flavor I need. I am hoping to just stick one up in my attic...
Your LOS situation is marginal to fair, depending on the height of your antenna. You have a hill 3 miles SW that is right on line with the top of the QA towers from ground level at your house. If you can get your antenna even 20 feet off the ground you have a decent chance. Or you can pay 'isfmd' $75 to evaluate your site.

Larry

Originally posted by Babula
My Sweet Spot in Woodinville
sweeeeeeet. imagine what a mast would do. and I see you have watched Over Everything - over and over and over....
I've started naming individual rocks and trees in Over BC after 20 some viewings.

Larry

So much sadness. :mad:

using a radio shack UHF only antenna (looked like maybe it was the 150-216?), and the MyHD card (the older one) -- I got horrible reception in Duvall. I was able to get channel 32 (bellevue I believe?) up to maybe 50%, and that was really about it -- certainly nothing from the seattle area.

This was w/ the antenna up in my attic -- figure 20'ish ft off the ground.

Most of my reading were dead zero. the PBS station (forget the number) flickered to 10% once in awhile.

Should just give it up and call my location a loss -- or would a different antenna really pull me from zero to watchable?

Can't do quarque, I am on the Cascade side of a hill directly over which (or at the top of) is a direct line of sight to Queen Anne. It is only erratic when the leaves come out. Otherwise its D* most of the time. I am a "content" guy mostly and Hack and NYPD are usually fine on 7 and 4. Discovery HD is slowly becoming my favorite since it came on D* July 1st.

Originally posted by Sillyboy
So much sadness. :mad:

using a radio shack UHF only antenna (looked like maybe it was the 150-216?), and the MyHD card (the older one) -- I got horrible reception in Duvall. I was able to get channel 32 (bellevue I believe?) up to maybe 50%, and that was really about it -- certainly nothing from the seattle area.

This was w/ the antenna up in my attic -- figure 20'ish ft off the ground.

Most of my reading were dead zero. the PBS station (forget the number) flickered to 10% once in awhile.

Should just give it up and call my location a loss -- or would a different antenna really pull me from zero to watchable?
I think if you had a good antenna on a 10 foot mast on the roof you would have a good chance. You can pay someone to come over and evaluate your site, but that costs more than an antenna (which you could resell). I use and recommend the Channel Master 4248 since just about everyone that has tried it has had success. On your previous attempts did you investigate aiming the antenna and also what trees/houses might be in the LOS? I'm not sure how good the MyHD is at low signal levels and multipath interference. There is a definite difference between STB's.

Larry

edit: meant to say CM 4228 above, although 4248 is also very good

Larry
well interesting results so far!. I was using a RS UHF only antenna and cheap RG6, with this setup on a ten foot pole(on the ground), all i could get was 13-1-2, now I am using a CM 4248 with preamp CM7777 and good RG6 on same ten foot pole I now get 18/25/31 and many analog stations as well, now when i put this new antenna up on my 50' tower, i hope to see all availible channels. i will keep you posted.

I am still looking for some one to climb/mount this antenna? sugestion?help?in Kitsap area.
thanks Mike

Mike - If I was 30 years younger I would give it a go. Perhaps a pro installer would do it for some $$. Your biggest problem is liability if an amateur does it. But I think you are guaranteed reception at 50 feet! What about your roof? Is the tower one of those triangular affairs in 10' sections? Guy wires galore?

Larry

Larry- its a free standing tower, 48' in 6 -8' sections no guy wires etc. I have been up it many times, however age and a current hip problem prevent me from doing this 15 min job. i am first going to call a tree service and get them to prune(top) a (now 50') alder tree that is interferring with antenna rotation, i need ~ 15' turn radius. I am so LOS with the ch13 antenna that the digital siginal locks in with 2 bars with just a 1m piece of unterminated coax hanging on the back of this T165, very nice unit so far. later Mike

Gosh, right now I have my choice of 9 HD programs and one SD 16x9 program: ch's 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 (SD), and the 4 DirecTV HD package channels. If I subscribed to premium movie channels I would have even more choices.

Who says there is no HDTV to watch?

Am I one of the few people in Seattle which has a cheap $10 Radio Shack indoor UHF loop antenna getting basically all of the OTA HDTV channels? (70%-90% signal on a DISH 6000 8VSB tuner)

Hey, guys. I'll join the fray. I bought stuff from Good Guys today, including a Hughes E86 HD D* package and a Zenith 250 unit thrown in for free. Up till now, I've been receiving OTA channels on my standard TV from the biggest TV antenna that Radio Shack had that I installed in my attic a few months ago. Standard TV reception has been overall very good on all major channels, with a bit of static here and there. The smaller channels like 11, 12, 33, etc are kind of fuzzy. The antenna is rated for HD reception too, so I'm wondering what kind of HD reception I can expect through my new HD tuners.

I'm down in Puyallup, just south of Highway 512. Intersection of 80th Ave. and 152nd St. Any guesses?

Originally posted by Kermee
Am I one of the few people in Seattle which has a cheap $10 Radio Shack indoor UHF loop antenna getting basically all of the OTA HDTV channels? (70%-90% signal on a DISH 6000 8VSB tuner)

Maybe... where are you located?

Originally posted by Chris Dotur
Hey, guys. I'll join the fray. I bought stuff from Good Guys today, including a Hughes E86 HD D* package and a Zenith 250 unit thrown in for free. Up till now, I've been receiving OTA channels on my standard TV from the biggest TV antenna that Radio Shack had that I installed in my attic a few months ago. Standard TV reception has been overall very good on all major channels, with a bit of static here and there. The smaller channels like 11, 12, 33, etc are kind of fuzzy. The antenna is rated for HD reception too, so I'm wondering what kind of HD reception I can expect through my new HD tuners.

I'm down in Puyallup, just south of Highway 512. Intersection of 80th Ave. and 152nd St. Any guesses?
I'll give you more than a guess: your elevation is about 500 feet and there are no hills between you and QA hill. You should have excellent HD unless you have major trees or reflections (multipath interference). A highly directional antenna will help. I'm not sure what the specs are on your Rat Shack unit. Aim it upward about 10 degrees. Probably will work but you never know.

Larry

Wow, thanx Larry. Elevation here isn't bad on Puyallup's South Hill. My subdivision is even called "The Ridge" on... well.. you know.

I've been watching SDTV off the Radio Shack antenna up to now, and it's been pretty good. I've got it pointed North in my attic towards the broadcasts, but unfortunately there's another house right on that side which may be degrading my reception a bit. I hooked up my Hughes E86 last night and started to watch antenna HDTV on my new plasma today. WOW! Great picture. One thing I've noticed, though, is a big difference in the volume or dynamic range between the HD and SD channels. HD are always quieter.

I'm not sure about the channel lineup that the receiver found, but most channels are very good. Here's a summary of what I remember it found for channels:

4 SDTV, good reception
4-1 HDTV, excellent reception

5 SDTV, very good reception
5-1 HDTV, excellent reception

7 SDTV, very good reception
7-1 HDTV, excellent reception

8 SDTV, very very poor reception (is this the Canadian channel?)

9 SDTV, very good reception
9-1 HDTV, excellent reception, (seems to be 4:3 format though)
9-2 HDTV, excellent reception (also KCTS HDTV, but different program than 9-1)
9-3 HDTV, NO reception. Labeled as "learn" channel, but nothing received.
9-5 HDTV, excellent reception (same as 9-1, but in 16:9 format)

11 SDTV, fair reception
11-1 HDTV, fair reception, lots of pixelation and hesitation sometimes

12 SDTV, fair to poor reception

13 SDTV, excellent reception. Best reception of SD channels
13-1 HDTV, excellent reception
13-2 HDTV, excellent reception. (this is the HD mirror of channel 22, though, the WB network. Very strange)

15 SDTV, fair to poor reception. (seems same as channel 28 SDTV)

16 SDTV, fair to good reception

20 SDTV, good reception

22 SDTV, good reception
22-1 HDTV, NO reception. Just blank
22-2 HDTV, NO reception. Blank again (KCPQ?)

28 SDTV, fair to good reception

33 SDTV, fair to good reception
33-1 HDTV, fair to good reception. Intermittent pixelation and hesitation

41-2 HDTV, another KCTS repeater like 9-5

45 SDTV, fair to good reception

51 SDTV, fair to good reception

56 SDTV, fair to good reception

Chris - looks like you are doing very well. Note that 22-1, 22-2 are the same as 13-2, 13-1 so if you get one of the pair don't worry about the other pair (same broadcasts). 41-2 IS one of the digital channels for 9, not a "repeater". Some receivers like my Samsung don't call out both sets of numbers once they are "mapped" by the receiver. 9-2,9-3 are only on during the day. 11-1 problem is probably path interference - try moving your antenna around or elevate it. I also notice the volume is lower on digital channels, not sure why.

Larry

I have noticed that the volume varies significantly between digital channels. 11-1 is by far the lowest volume (by ear I would guess down 6 about dB), so much so that I have to turn my volume up to hear it. 13-1/22-2 and 22-1/13-2 are by far the loudest (by ear I would guess hotter by about 6 dB), so much so that I have to turn my volume down. The other DT stations are somewhere in the middle and somewhat close to each other.

I hear the same differences on my RCA DTC-100 and my Hughes E86. I notified Ron Diotte (engineer) at channel 11 of the low audio on 11-1 some time ago. He acknowledged it if I recall, but he was not sure what might be causing it. It looks like no changes have been made yet.

Chris Dotur,

I live across the valley toward your northeast about a mile or so (Woodland and 138th) and have a medium size UHF radio shack antenna in my attic pointed towards Seattle. Here are my HDTV exceptions to your list:

1. 11-1 Never received even a bite.

2. 16-1 KONG (good reception)

3. I have seen 28-1 show up on the guide recently but not enough signal strength to pull in a pixel.

Thanks to everyones input into this thread. Having moved here from Philly this past week, I'm having frustration getting signals from Queen Anne Hill.

I live in a high rise facing sw on corner of Elliott and Clay, 2 blocks off of the sound. Unfortunately, the building is made of concrete and steel and I'm getting no reception from the towers on the hill even though I'm about a mile away and in sight of the towers (on the other side of the building). I get 18-1 and 18-2 with my silver sensor however....

1) Would purchasing the large channelmaster bowtie help in my situation or am I just out of luck given the construction of my building?

2) Where have people been purchasing channelmaster antennas in Seattle area?

3) Should I be pointing the sensor through the building toward the hill or placing it out on my patio facing sw even though the towers are not located there?

Thanks for any help.

bummer. I doubt any antenna would get through the building unless there are "holes" in the reinforcing steel - not likely. If you get 0 signal with your SS unit then doubt any other will help. 18-1,18-2 are near Bremerton so you are on the right side of the building for those. Try the SS on the patio in all directions - you might get reflections. My best advice? move. Or sign up with Comcrap for all those wonderful HD channels that are coming almost any year now.

Understood. Although my reintroduction to the moving process these past two weeks makes me think I will never move again. Maybe when football season starts I'll reconsider.

I had Comcast HDTV in Philly (their corporate home). Fortunately that meant we were on the cutting edge as far as HDTV roleout ie Sixers, Flyers, HBO, Showtime and all the locals (except CBS) have been available for quite some time in Philly. From what I gather, they are fighting the same fight with the locals in Seattle as they were with CBS in Philly.

I just can't understand what takes so long. At least agree to a price with the network and then see if we're willing to poney up the cash. I think most people in the forum would.

solved this problem in same area with attenuation

I'm not getting a signal from KOMO (4) via antenna. I just noticed it last night, anyone else experiencing this?
Tom

No problems with KOMO-DT here last night or this morning.

Not a glitch here either. By the way, Larry, when you are on a roll, could you topo 180th Street and 15th Ave W in Lynnwood? I have perfect reception with my SS (not in term of signal strength but reliability) and my neighbor across the street leans toward OTA DTV. I just do not want to be the cause for my neighbor's bad investment. And BTW again, so far there are 4 of us (acknowledgingly) taking advantage of OTA digital. I don't think the real number is anywhere comparable to those who subscribe to cable just for the good local signals. So, what stop broadcasters, in the future, to have the same programs but only feed them via cable and satellite? Just a thought.

Originally posted by Budget_HT
No problems with KOMO-DT here last night or this morning.

Hmmmm....My signal is now showing a strong 88, but all I'm getting is a black screen.
Tom

Originally posted by tuquet
Not a glitch here either. By the way, Larry, when you are on a roll, could you topo 180th Street and 15th Ave W in Lynnwood? Just a thought.

no problems with hills. you are dead even with QA hill so the only possible problems would be trees/buildings/multipath. that whole are looks good for many blocks in all directions.

Larry

Originally posted by smsgtkvv

...
1. 11-1 Never received even a bite.
...

I notice 11-1 is only running 68kW power (< 10% of King). I wonder if that is the main reason people report problems with it but not other stations.

Larry

Thanks, Larry. I wonder if UPN has jacked up their transmit power. I used to have to move my antenna to get good reception but not anymore for about a month now. BTW, I am giving up on the Mariners' game, bottom of the 7th, tell me tomorrow that they win.

TAB, check your receiver. Try power down completely, remove the power cord from the wall for a minute or so if you have not tried. KOMO is the only one with 720p, and you are the only one with the problem. Just a shoot in the dark but not too much hassle to give it a try.

I will email the station engineer at channel 11 and ask if they have recently upped their transmitter power.

tuquet:
Thanks for the tips.

I managed to get KOMO-DT back. For some reason my DTC-100 does not show a picture if the signal is lost for a period of time. When I was hitting "4-1" on my remote I just got a blank screen (as opposed to "weak signal"). I then tried going to channel 38 and the DTC-100 magically mapped the signal back to 4-1.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Seattle HDTV discussion....
Tom

ifsmd,

What is meant by attenuation and how do I do it?

TIA

lower signal level..

robb
206-328-5526

Here is an example of an attenuator:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D678

You would connect this little attenuator box between your antenna and your STB. The knob on the attenuator works like a volume control for the antenna signal, reducing the power of the signal more as you turn the knob one way (usually clockwise) and returning the signal to it's original power level when turned all the way the other direction (probably counter-clockwise).

Sometimes, if you are very close to the transmitters, there is too much signal power and it overloads your receiver (STB/tuner). This is typically more of a problem with digital than with analog. With digital, it is all or none, and if the power is too much the receiver might show nothing. With analog you might see distorted pictures and possibly have a loud buzz and/or distortion in the audio.

That said, if you are in a building facing the wrong direction (not line of site to the transmitter location) then you probably do not have a problem with too much power. But you could be getting multiple reflected signals from multiple surfaces (e.g., buildings). If one happens to be stronger than the others, the attenuator might help by reducing the power level for all reflected signals. If the lower power signals go below the receiver threshold, perhaps the one remaining stronger signal could be watchable. I consider this a long shot at best, but folks have come up with some amazing results that seem like they should not work.

Sorry about the long post here.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info!!

For $9 its worth a try.

This is a very helpful thread. I'm new to the forum and thought I would throw out my HDTV reception problem as well.

When we lived in the Totem Lake area of Kirkland, we could pick up most all of the HD network stations really well. We moved last Fall to a condo on Lake Bellevue (next to the Crab Pot restaurant). Now I have a tough time picking up any HDTV channels at all. Sometimes channel 9 comes in, but it is usually choppy.

I've been using the $80 digital antennae purchased at Radio Shack about 1 1/2 years ago.

The TV and antennae are located about 40 feet above the lake level. Does anyone think a different HDTV antennae might get us better reception of the local network HDTV channels?

Thanks for any help or advice.

-Mike

Mike - I checked your line-of-sight from LB drive and there are no hills in the way. So the next likely problems are mutipath interference, other buildings and antenna placement. Are you on the west side of your building? If so, then perhaps a very directional antenna would help. What sort of mounting options are available? Rooftop? Balcony? Depending on the space you could use a long yagi style or a short&tall bowtie. Check out channelmaster.com UHF antennas. Oh, and welcome to the forum!

Larry

Mike,

Have you checked http://www.antennaweb.org to verify what direction you should be aiming your antenna? They make it fairly easy by providing a local street map that you can use for reference to the angle as compared to street directions.

Good luck and let us know how you progress.

Hi guys,

Thanks for your advice. The main problem that I'm up against is that I'm now in a condo development (Lake Bellevue Village) that does not allow roof antennaes. I could check with the building manager to see if there is any flexibility on that, but from what I know they are pretty strict about keeping the outside looking clean.

Our condo decks face west (toward the railroad tracks), but there are very large trees that seperate our view from the sky. Maybe it is the trees that are causing the interference.

The only thing I was thinking about is that I do have sole access to the attic above our bedroom. In the attic, there is plenty of room to put a larger "roof" antennae, but there still would be a wood + siding barrier from the outside. I would then need to figure out how to run a coaxial cable down the walls to our HDTV without it being seen. The trees would still be higher though than the attic height.

What do you think?

Larry:

Could you check to see how things look from 1411 NE 63rd St? We are moving there and I'm considering going with OTA HDTV instead of cable. I think reception should be pretty good from there as it is close to the top of the largest hill in the immediate area.

thanks,
alex

Originally posted by tuquet
Thanks, Larry. I wonder if UPN has jacked up their transmit power. I used to have to move my antenna to get good reception but not anymore for about a month now. ...

I received a reply from Ron Diotte, station engineer at KSTW UPN channel 11 in Seattle/Tacoma. I had asked him about their transmitter power and the low level audio on their DTV channel.

"Thanx for the input. We are still at STA authority and are at low power.

The Canadian "FCC" is holding up our request for power maximization. We do expect approval soon, however, the lead time for a new antenna will be mid 2004.

We are aware that the audio is lower on our digital channel. We are attempting to look at it as time permits.

RD"

Ron has been very cooperative every time I have communicated with him. He and his sidekick Dave sometimes read and post here at the AVS Forum, especially if they have news of interest to us.

Mike - If you can afford the investment, I would put a Channel Master 4228 in the attic (3' tall x 2' wide x 6" deep) if possible and string a coax down to the receiver temporarily. Your aim is almost due west for QA. The reason I recommend the 4228 is it is high-gain, very directional and presents a large area to the incoming signal which I believe is less affected by individual trees (each bowtie can receive signal if another is blocked). The siding should not matter too much unless it is aluminum. You are close enough for an attic situation to work well.

Larry

Originally posted by Alex Wetmore
Larry:

Could you check to see how things look from 1411 NE 63rd St? We are moving there and I'm considering going with OTA HDTV instead of cable. I think reception should be pretty good from there as it is close to the top of the largest hill in the immediate area.

thanks,
alex
Alex - only problem there might be multipath or too much signal (requiring an attenuator). A very directional low-gain antenna + attenuator should do it.

Larry

I'm still trying to add channels here and there that might be available. I can't get any variations of 18, 25, 27, 28, or 31 though like people have suggested.

(Puyallup,WA)

18 is 13 DT (already have), 25 is 22 DT (already have), 27 & 28 are very weak and in Tacoma (rotate your antenna), 31 is 16 DT - weak and hard to get by a lot of people. You aren't really missing much, pun intended.

Thanks, man... I appreciate the feedback. I'm happy with the reception I'm getting overal. And unfortunately that monstrosity Radio Shack TV antenna is woven all around my attic girders, so there's no room for it to turn. I'll just stick with what I've got!

Anyone help me? Live just East of Brier.....228th & 14th Ave.

Couple of days away from a tuner and was wondering if my reception will be any good?

Whats CQ mean?

Thanks

OOPS sorry whats QA mean?

Drumnut - QA = Queen Anne Hill where 4,5,7 towers are. CH = Capitol Hill where 22/13 tower is. As I stated in my 6-13 post: your LOS (line of sight) to QA towers looks good but your LOS to CH towers looks marginal. You need to get you antenna as high up as possible.

Hi all,
Where can I get the channel master antenna? Havent seen it in any stores.
Using the jenssen indoor now, reception is good surprisingly (i live off of avondale road in redmond, behind a hill, but can point sort of south to southwest). But i have to turn it manually to find each channel. Want to try channelmaster outside.
Bob.....NOOB but loving it.

Bob:
Heres the locals -
Pringle Electronic Dist.
2911 Marvin Road North East
Olympia, WA 98516
Phone: (360) 459-5577
Phone Number 2: 0


Pringle Electronic Dist.
1021 North Broadway
Everett, WA 98201
Phone: (425) 258-6161
Phone Number 2: 0

For cost reasons, I prefer online ordering from Warren Electronics or others - see www.channelmaster.com for other online shops.
Tom

HI everyone

Hey Quarque.
I just dot back from Vacation on Sat. I finally set up my Samsung T151 and channel master 4221 on my house. I was able to get all of my main stations. The PBS HD last night, the "Over Canada" thing was amazing and some of the other one's locked very good. Thanks for your help, but I have a couple questions.
Anyone please give me feedback.

1.
I'm in the silver firs area of Everett and my samsung t-151 only has a signal Bar with no number rating like some people talk about. It locked on right about 50% on the bar. Is that the best I can expect? My point is about 182 degrees due south.
2.
I mounted my channel master on south side of the house under my roof hanging since I used 12 in. brackets I could twist the antenna and get it pointed in the right direct. But I could add a 5 foot extension and take it up over the roof line and get a little clearer shot. Is it worth it and will my signal get stronger and maybe I can get some channel north of me? what do you think.

3.
Can someone give a complete list of what channels I should be getting on my samsung. They don't match up with what I downloaded from the ant. site.

New toys are so much fun. I must say hanging out on that ladder and installing that antenna was a little scary. Alright alot scary. I just want to get right and be done...Thanks to everyone

Big - if you are getting 50% on your 151 (9 bars?) then you are doing great. I am much closer than you and never see more than 8. I doubt the 5 feet would make any difference. If you have a lot of dropouts consider adding 10-15 feet of height. A complete list of channels can be found by searching back through this thread. I don't think you could get anything north of you (Canada). All the locals are south, southeast and southwest of you. The southeast ondes like PAX may not be worth your time and effort (depending on your tastes). All the WA stations are listed at: http://100kwatts.tmi.net/tv/WA.html

Larry

Hey Tab! Thanks, found out that Lowes sells channel master and got the stealth there. Next question any antenna installers in seattle/eastside area. I want to raise it, put on an amplifier and rotator and its starting to look like faster to pay someone if reasonable. nyone know any installers?
Thanks
Bob

Hi guys,

Thanks for being patient with me. I finally am doing tests with some antenna's. Here is my situation at this point. Let me know what you think about all this:

Today I purchased the Samsung SIR-T151 receiver as an open box purchase at Best Buy in Bellevue for $359. (for anyone who's interested, they have another open box unit there for $299 - it just doesn't have the remote). I purchased a Channel Master model 3010 from Lowes. I know you suggested to purchase the model 4228. Since I cannot find a place to easily buy it locally, I went with what Lowes carries for testing purposes. I think a lot of people do this, because every item I bought today was "open box".

I've hooked everything up, and have set the Channel Master antenna out on my upper deck, running a 50' RG59 coax cable down the hall into the T151. (My wife is going to allow this beautiful cable to run through our bedroom, and down the hall for about a week).

I found that I have a very small window of angle to get the antenna pointed right. The signal strength is showing at 11 ticks from the left (out of 24 ticks). It tends to fluctuate down to 10 or 9 ticks at times (could this be from the trees blowing in the wind?).

After doing a channel scan, here is a list of what is being picked up:

TV 4-1 KOMO-DT Strong Signal Dolby 2-0 Surround
TV 9-1 KCTS-DT Fluctuates from TV image to "No Signal"
TV 9-2 Kids Black all the time with "Digital Sound" at bottom
TV 9-3 Learns Black all the time with "Digital Sound" at bottom
TV 9-5 KCTS-HD Fluctuates from TV image to "No Signal"
TV 13-1 KCPQ-DT Strong Signal Dolby 2-0
TV 13-2 KTWB-DT Strong Signal Dolby 2-0
TV 22-1 KTWB-DT Strong Signal Dolby 2-0
TV 22-1 KCPQ-DT Strong Signal Dolby 2-0

That's all I'm getting. I was hoping to pick up King5, but that is nowhere to be found. I moved the antennae inside the condo right outside the room where the TV is, and the results are the same, except I was able to pick up the KONG channel. That tells me that the signal is being picked up about the same through the outer walls of the condo unit.

Any thoughts on achieving better reception? Should I order the Channel Master 4228? I did notice that it has a 60 mile UHF range, while the model 3010 unit I got from Lowes has a 30 mile range. Would that make all the difference?

Thanks for your continued help and advice.

-Mike

Mike,

This is a shot in the dark but if it is not too much hassle, try with a shorter cable then tune to 39 and 48 for KIRO and KING. If it works, you may want to use RG6 cable and perhaps with some amp. I have a hunch that 50ft of RG59 may (i) reduce the primary signal, and (ii) absorb reflections.

Best of luck.

Thanks tuquet,

I brought in the antenna last night and put it outside the door, still using the 50' cable. My signal strength ticks went up to 13 on the scale, but still no difference in channel reception.

I had a 10' thicker coax cable left over from the cable company. I switched out that cable. My signal strength is the same, and all the channels picked up are the same.

I tried punching in manually 39 and 48, and there is not even a hint of a signal. Channel 38 (KOMO) is still very solid and strong.

Thanks for your input.

-Mike

I am stumped! The only other wild guess is that you pick 38 from some reflection. Difference in wavelength prevents 39 & 48 from landing on your balcony. Or someone in your path sucks all the power from those channels. Enough! About 9-x, they are all the same channel thus the same reception. 9-2, 9-3 weekends, 9-5 evening. They go off air around 11pm. They go on air sometime between when I leave for work (weekdays) and when I wake up (weekends). When they are on air but the sub-channel has no programs you get the black screen.

What do you think about the fact that I'm picking up KCTS-HD as another HD channel, as well as the other digital signals, including KONG? The KCTS-DT channel comes in weaker than KCTS-HD.

I found that I had to point the antenna just about perfectly west, and slightly downward. Getting the signals is like an on-off switch. If I move the antenna slightly either way, the signal strength is gone.

As a frame of reference. Our unit is literally right on the northwest shore of Lake Bellevue (the condos are all on pylons). Pointing the antenna westward is the direction right over the railroad tracks. The antenna at this point would be approximately 100 feet above the lake level.

-Mike

Have you tried different types of antennas? I wonder if you get a lot of reflections from building walls, appliances in the surrounding units. Or may be the box fails to tune in to certain channels? I use a SS (directional) but it seems very tolerable with placement. Where are all the experts? We need help here! Buy me a 6-pack and I'll come over with my equipment and see if it makes any difference. Seriously, I wouldn't mind doing some experiment with you except that I will be busy for the next 2 weeks. You will probably have switched to cable or satellite service by then.

9-1 and 9-5 are the same channel 41, the signal quality should be identical (so I think). The box may combine other parameters into the "signal strength" display.

I do also own the Radio Shack amplified digital indoor antenna. It's about a year old, and cost $80. I tried that as well and could barely pick up anything. The signal strength was all the way at the bottom.

Help/advice from other experts?

-Mike

Another try. This is a little involved. Get a different receiver (better different brand) and test it out. At least you can throw one variable out of the equation unless fate has it that both of them screw up in exact the same way. You can always return the unit.

Mike - my 2 cents. I think your antenna is good enough for signal strength because of the levels you report on several channels. The missing 7 & 5 could be multipath reflection problems. A more directional antenna might help or other locations (if there are any). Pointing your antenna 'down' seems counterintuitive. The towers are 'up' from your elevation, so you may be getting reflections galore. Amplifiers probably won't help. It may be '4228' time. BTW, I don't see the 3010 model on the ChannelMaster website - are you sure about the model #?

Larry

quarque,

Here is a picture of the 3010 from Lowe's website. At this point I'm leaning towards ordering the 4228. Hopefully that might solve my problem.

-Mike

OK, found it. It was under "special market antennas". In their master reference chart it is listed as "Large Multidirectional" under 'type'. This would make it more sensitive to reflected signals from all directions than other designs (and hence poorer digital reception). It is also low UHF gain (-1.6db!). A coat hanger would almost do as well. Try Pringle Electronics in Everett for the 4228 or buy it off the net. I got mine on sale for $25 last year + $15 shipping at spectravox.com (there are lots of places selling the 4228 so shop around).

Larry

Thank you Larry,

That is really helpful. I think I'll return that $50 coat hanger to Lowe's.

One last question about the 4228. If I'm going to get it in my attic, I've got to be able to get it through the ceiling door. I measured my attic ceiling door entrance and it is 29.5 x 22.5 inches.

The specs on the 4228 tell me it's 6.5 x 39.5 inches. What is strange to me is that the pictures don't look like 6.5 x 39.5. Can you confirm that is the correct size? If so, then it sounds like I shouldn't have any problem getting it up into my attic.

I checked spectravox. They are listing it as "out of stock". That's too bad because they have a really good price. I'll keep looking around, and I'll contact Pringle Electronics on Monday.

Thanks again for all your help.

-Mike

Larry,

I have been lurking for a while and am trying to figure out my OTA reception chances before purchasing a STB and TV since the only HDTV channels I could get now are a couple on DirecTV. Could you check my address please?

26018 NE 27th Dr
Redmond, WA

I have looked at a couple of free topo sites on the net and figure my elevation at around 360' and I know that the Sammamish plateau is in the way at 550'+. I wanted to know based on my distance to the plateau (if it is 2 + miles), if there is even a marginal chance with an antenna say on a 10' mast on the roof.

I can get all analog channels fine OTA with the Lowes $50 'hanger' but from another post, checking 16 or 22 UHF analog as an indicator if I would be able to get digial channels reveals no picture at all, just snow. I still need to try the roof (of this I am pretty sure I need to do to even have a chance) and am going to try the CM 4248 as well.

Thanks,
Chris

Mike - the 4228 is 39.5 x 39.5 x 6.5 deep. Your diagonal opening is 37" so you will need to partially disassemble the antenna. This should not be difficult. As I recall the screen comes off easily and that may be enough to get it through the opening because it extends a few inches beyond the bowtie elements on each side. Other places on the net to try are starkelectonic.com and http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm
If you can find it locally you will save $15-$20 on shipping.

Larry

Originally posted by cpenney
Larry,

I have been lurking for a while and am trying to figure out my OTA reception chances before purchasing a STB and TV since the only HDTV channels I could get now are a couple on DirecTV. Could you check my address please?

26018 NE 27th Dr
Redmond, WA

I have looked at a couple of free topo sites on the net and figure my elevation at around 360' and I know that the Sammamish plateau is in the way at 550'+. I wanted to know based on my distance to the plateau (if it is 2 + miles), if there is even a marginal chance with an antenna say on a 10' mast on the roof.

I can get all analog channels fine OTA with the Lowes $50 'hanger' but from another post, checking 16 or 22 UHF analog as an indicator if I would be able to get digial channels reveals no picture at all, just snow. I still need to try the roof (of this I am pretty sure I need to do to even have a chance) and am going to try the CM 4248 as well.

Thanks,
Chris
My map shows your elevation at around 340 feet. The plateau is 581 feet and 2.8 miles away. Your situation is marginal and it all depends on getting your antenna high enough. If you have a 2-story house and put even a 20 foot mast on the roof it may not be enough. The LOS point is about 50 feet above ground at your location. However, many people have used a high gain antenna like the CM4228 or 4248 and gotten reception in similar marginal conditions. The 4228 has been called the "best UHF antenna made" by many people. You might also do a survey of your neighborhood. Knock on any doors where you see roof antennas and ask if they get HD. Or pay a pro to evaluate your site. Good luck!

Larry

Larry,

I'm at the 14000 block of Siliver Firs Dr, Everett 98208 very close to BJM and Big_Dawg (what's up guys? How's the HD?).

Would you mind checking your topo for me? Just curious as I bought an OTA HD receiver today.

Also, assuming my line of sight is good, any advice on antenna's? Possibly the 4228?

-EJ

Originally posted by Eric Jones
Larry,

I'm at the 14000 block of Siliver Firs Dr, Everett 98208 very close to BJM and Big_Dawg (what's up guys? How's the HD?).

Would you mind checking your topo for me? Just curious as I bought an OTA HD receiver today.

Also, assuming my line of sight is good, any advice on antenna's? Possibly the 4228?

-EJ
Eric - you have a slight hill SSW to overcome. But it is only 40 feet or so. If you can get your antenna 20 feet off the ground you should have good reception. I would use the 4228 or 4248 on the roof. It might work in an attic of a 2-story.

Larry

My location is the 900 block of Madison Street in Everett (98203). I can only get KIRO HD Ch. with my outdoor antenna that is about 30' high. Thanks

Hi Everyone
Hey EJ.
We sure have alot of silver firs guys on this thread. I hiked my channel master 4221 up another 4 ft. and locked it in a little better. I get a solid 9 bars now. I sure watch some strange stuff this nights just because it's in HD. I watched this thing on bears last night on PBS. Very cool.

I got a question for everyone that has the t-151 OTA box. I've tried using the searching feature for loading up my menu with what's on and I mostly get "no information" and it takes along time to tell me that. I'm i doing something wrong or is that a weakness in that box?.
Hang in there BJM. We will get you over to see my set-up in the next couple days and I'II help you set up yours if you go with the OTA set-up...Big Dawg

well. i don't understand?? I have a CM4248 ant. & amp up 55' and can get 4-1 all the time,no drop outs, and at~1/2 scale on sir-t165 signal meter, 5-1,7-1,11-1,9-2, all of these don't even register on the meter and no picture. same transmitter local, same power levels, etc, but no signal here.
any idea's, suggestions. help. thanks mike

Mike - about the only thing left is mutipath interference. You must be getting reflections off of something (water?). Tilting the antenna up can help to some degree. Many people install a precision tilter along with their rotor. Have you tried rotating a little off-axis?

Originally posted by Big_Dawg
Hi Everyone
Hey EJ.
We sure have alot of silver firs guys on this thread. I hiked my channel master 4221 up another 4 ft. and locked it in a little better. I get a solid 9 bars now. I sure watch some strange stuff this nights just because it's in HD. I watched this thing on bears last night on PBS. Very cool.

I got a question for everyone that has the t-151 OTA box. I've tried using the searching feature for loading up my menu with what's on and I mostly get "no information" and it takes along time to tell me that. I'm i doing something wrong or is that a weakness in that box?.
Hang in there BJM. We will get you over to see my set-up in the next couple days and I'II help you set up yours if you go with the OTA set-up...Big Dawg
Hmmm, Bears in HD - I didn't think NFL preseason was in HD ;) I wish the the GB-KC game was in HD tonight!

Wait a second, I just checked again and it IS in HD!!!! They must have changed formats when I wasn't looking...

The GUIDE you speak of is also slow on my T150 as well and I think on other receivers also. Many stations are still not inserting useful data anyway so I never use it. I use titantv.com to see what is coming up in HD.

Originally posted by richmondbeach
My location is the 900 block of Madison Street in Everett (98203). I can only get KIRO HD Ch. with my outdoor antenna that is about 30' high. Thanks
Well, first of all, you can't live in Everett and call yourself richmondbeach. ;)

But ignoring that for now, your elevation is about 460 feet and you have a 580 foot hill about 1 mile SSW. A direct LOS from QA hill ends up about 50 feet above the top of your antenna. I am surprised you get anything at all. KIRO is probably reflecting off something. Do you have any dropouts on it? You could try swinging your antenna around 90 degrees each way and see if you can get any others by reflection.

I get KIRO-HD with out any loss of signal, I have rotated my antenna but can't pick up any other stations. Thanks, R. Beach

Larry,

Drove up to Everett yesterday to visit Pringle Electronics. I picked up a Channel Master 4228. They were very nice people.

I plan to test it out later this week, so I'll let you know my results. It will definitely be easy to get into my attic...the two screens should remove easily just like you said. I'm going to need to run a 100 foot coax cable to get up into my attic...hopefully that shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks again for your help. I'll keep you posted.

-Mike

Wait a minute. You have line of sight, are close to the towers. Your perhaps only problem is multipath. Why not give the SS a try? I and many have great success with it. Who knows, you may save a trip to the attic.

What do you mean "SS"?

SS = Silver Sensor.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html

You can buy the Silver Sensor at Sears for about $30 and return it if it does not help.

My friend had a $80 digital Radio Shack amplified antenna that I tried last week to see if an indoor antenna would work. It wasn't the one with the bows...it looks like two Grey plastic tubes, one on top of the other. It had a signal strength of about 3 ticks if I was even lucky to get it facing the right way. I had that one and the CM 3010 at the same time and was testing them both. Also, Best Buy was selling a funky "long capsule" shaped digital amplified antenna. I bought it as well. The results were the same as the Radio Shack one. The 3010 was the best of the three. That SS antenna looks a lot like the same shape as the 3010. Are there differences I'm not aware of?

At this point I've already made a trip to Everett. I've got the CM4228 at my place. I'm going to at least try it out inside the condo before hiking it up to the attic. I'm not thrilled about the attic install, but if it does the job and I can get all the local channels I'll be satisfied. I had gone through a lot of discussion with Larry about this and his recommendation was to go with the 4228.

Thoughts?

-Mike

When I saw the picture of the 3010 I thought it was directional (since it looks like the SS) and so it was hard to explain why you get 4 but not 5 or 7. The SS is directional so it would help coping with multipaths. Reception? I live in Lynnwood and get KBTC-DT from Tacoma without a glitch. Hope you get your digital signal by whatever means.

What's the cost of the SS? Can you buy it locally? If so I could pick one up and give it a try before I do the attic install.

---Sorry, I just looked up and realized that it was mentioned that you could buy it at Sears...any other places?

-Mike

Reception conditions vary GREATLY by location. Any experiences at my house do not apply to your house except by coincidence.

From what I have read here, it sounds like multipath is your main issue. Again, multipath is unique to each and every reception location. Your results within your condo may vary significantly from those in your attic. UHF reception can vary greatly by moving an antenna a few feet in any direction.

I would test the CM antenna as you have planned, but realize that it may get better or worse reception in the attic. The main benefit of the attic location is height to better overcome direct or partial blockage of line-of-site.

Some folks have had luck with adding a variable attenuator, which lowers the power level of all signals at the same time, but may drop the power level of reflected (multipath) signals below the threshold of the receiver while leaving the direct signals high enough to be detected successfully. Again, YMMV.

Good luck. I hope you find a sweet spot for your antenna and can stop tweaking and start watching and enjoying HDTV.

FYI, At my location the Silver Sensor did not work, I suspect because I need more elevation to overcome a small hill between me and the Seattle towers. A $20 UHF yagi from Radio Shack did work for me (mounted 5 feet above my chimney).

Thanks for the input Dave.

I'll let you all know what happens later this week when I do my testing. If I need to take the 4228 up to the attic, I'll test it first before building a permanent mount.

I think I will still check Sears at 148th in Redmond and try out the SS. If for some lucky reason it works, it could still save me a substantial amount of money and time.

-Mike

I believe CC carries them too.

Originally posted by mquantum
Thanks for the input Dave.

<snip> I think I will still check Sears at 148th in Redmond and try out the SS. If for some lucky reason it works, it could still save me a substantial amount of money and time.

-Mike

If you can't find one, I have one you could try. I would be willing to drop it off when I go to Bellevue later today. I'll send you a PM.

Thanks Dave...

That is very nice of you to offer. I'm actually working in Fremont. I was going to try and swing by Sears either late tonight or tomorrow and see if they have one. I'll let you know.

-Mike

I'm a believer in the Silver Sensor. I just moved and figured that I'd need to put an antenna outside to get everything. However, the Silver Sensor is sitting on top of a speaker in my family room and I get all the major channels (except KCTS) solidly. Seeing how I will be getting KCTS through Comcast shortly, I can live with that.

Mike - I agree with Dave's post. If the 4228 is no better then try an adjustable attenuator. Since the 4228 has high gain you can afford to cut the signal quite a bit (and reflections as well) to find that magic level of signal vs noise. I've never seen a gain plot of the SS so it is hard to compare directly. Many people have used it successfully but it is impossible to tell how it does with multipath situations.

Larry

speaking of multipath, this must be my problem. i.e. 4-1 is solid all the time,5-1,7-1,11-1,9-1,25-1, no signal, I get 22-0 almost perfect except for the vertical bands in the back ground, but no 22-1. sometimes 7-1 and 9-1 will "lock-in" with a signal strength equal to 4-1, but it drops right out.
my sirt165 shows 9-10 bars on 4-1,just a little over half way up scale, what is everyone else seeing for signal strength?
so to much signal is a bad thing?
my CM 4248 ant. is rotatable but this does not help. any idea's???
thanks Mike C.

Hey guys -- sorry for jumping in so late here, but I have a couple of questions.

I live up in Everett (closer to Lake Stevens) and have a HD ready TV. I currently have Dish network w/ no HD content, and I have no box to receive OTA programming.

My questions are 1) can I even receive HD signals in my area OTA; and 2) is there any business in the area that is competent enough to help me out w/ getting HD material?

As you know, Comcast has HB0 (and I think Showtime) in HD and claims to be adding more content soon. However, I'm having problems facing the fact that I'll have to lose my PVR.

Any advice on getting me up and going toward getting HD content would be very, very much appreciated!

Ron

As far as I know 22-1 and 22-2 are WB and FOX, the equivalent of 13-2 and 13-1, only transmitted from different towers. There is no 22-0. And if 22-0 is WB-DT there should not be any vertical bands in the background. I would go to CC pick up a different receiver and a SS to see if they make any difference. If you feel guilty about returning then you can always come back and buy a plasma from them once you get solid HD. The SS is very directional, and its gain is much higher than all (10's) other indoor amplified antennas that I have tested plus the useless Terk TV-55. It may cost you a few trips to CC but somehow I think you owe it to yourself to try it out.

Hi Ron
It sounds like you have the same situation I do. I live in Everett in the silver firs area. I have dish too and did not want to give up my PVR either until the new HD PVR 921 comes out and drops down to a 400 dollar price point. I decided to give the OTA (over the air) thing a try and I'm glad I did. Here's the steps I took.
1. Determined what direction i had to point an antenna at and was it cleared. This tread has good links and very helpful people to tell you what your chances of getting a good signal.
2. Bought a new OTA tuner (Samsung t151) on e-bay for 225 dollars
3. Purchased a channel master 4221 and hardware on the Internet for about 35 dollars.
4. climbed up on my roof and locked in my location.
5. hooked it up in my home theater.
6. The rest is history. I have less than 300 dollars into the package and a couple scary moments on my roof.

I get all the locals and PBS too. In total I get 7 or 8 channels that can carry HD. I get more stations that the friend I have who has comcast. Dish is going to have to add alot more content before I spend my cash on their package. I may go back to comcast if they charge for their PVR service like they are talking about.
Ask the Que man for you chance of success with your address and give it a try. I could not be happier. Monday night football was so clean.. Good luck Mike:D

Thanks Big Dawg. That helps a bunch. I'll look into things and see how far I can get. But this sounds promising -- all except the rumor about fees for the PVR. That sucks!!

Originally posted by felthove
Hey guys -- sorry for jumping in so late here, but I have a couple of questions.

I live up in Everett (closer to Lake Stevens) and have a HD ready TV. I currently have Dish network w/ no HD content, and I have no box to receive OTA programming.

My questions are 1) can I even receive HD signals in my area OTA; and 2) is there any business in the area that is competent enough to help me out w/ getting HD material?

Ron
post your nearest intersection or address and I will do an LOS profile for you to see if there are any hills in the way.

Larry

Originally posted by mrmike99
speaking of multipath, this must be my problem. i.e. 4-1 is solid all the time,5-1,7-1,11-1,9-1,25-1, no signal, I get 22-0 almost perfect except for the vertical bands in the back ground, but no 22-1. sometimes 7-1 and 9-1 will "lock-in" with a signal strength equal to 4-1, but it drops right out.
my sirt165 shows 9-10 bars on 4-1,just a little over half way up scale, what is everyone else seeing for signal strength?
so to much signal is a bad thing?
my CM 4248 ant. is rotatable but this does not help. any idea's???
thanks Mike C.
Mike - I would go to rat shack and buy an adjustable attenuator. Sounds like you have plenty of signal (and perhaps plenty of reflections as well). The 4248 is quite directional horizontally but you might be picking up things vertically. The attentuator will decrease all signals and hopefully the reflections will fall below the detection level of the receiver. If that doesn't work see if you can borrow another brand/model receiver to see if that matters.

Larry

Ron - your location has a clear path to the QA and CH towers. Bearing to QA hill is 202 degrees (22 deg w of due south). You are almost 30 miles out so get a good antenna like CM4228 or CM4248. If you have a lot of trees use the 4228 and mount it as high up as you can.

Larry

Larry - I put 26db of attenuation in line and basically the same results, ch-4-1 only lost 3 signal strength bars and locked in as always, so I guess strength is not my problem, I must not have LOS to QA or CH and only getting multipath signals. the ant. 4248 is up at 53' thats as high as it will go. well an least Monday night football will be HD:-) its funny i get that home shopping network 50-1 from bellevue just as good as 4-1 but no 5,7,9,11, or 22,
hummmmm maybe a blimp and 500' of RG-11.
pretty pricey setup for a couple of HD channels.
anyone with an 800mhz spectrum anyalyser ?????
thanks Mike C.

Mike - very strange. 4, 5 & 7 towers are very close to each other on QA hill and at 53 feet you have LOS to all. Most people either get all 3 or none. There is a difference in power levels but as I recall 5 & 7 are higher power than 4. So there is someting else going on. I don't suppose you want to climb back up there and add a precision tilter. Some people get better results by tilting the antenna a few degrees. The other thing would be to pay a pro to evaluate the signals coming in. If you have plenty of signal at the 5 & 7 frequencies then it must be multipath that's killing it. But that also seems unlikely given your location and antenna height. hmmmmm...

Larry

Mike, have you looked at analog signals from KONG (UHF channel 16 from Queen Anne Hill) and KTWB (UHF channel 22 from Capitol Hill) using your same ooutdoor antenna?

The amount of ghosting you see on these analog channels should give some idea of how much multipath issue you might have.

Dave, i get KONG 16-1 great and 22 analog really good except those many ghosts in the background, but they are hard to detect. but no 22-1, 5-1,7-1,9-1,11-1 I am not done trying to solve this, thanks for the interest and any idea's?? Mike

KONG 16-1 is on the same tower as KING 5-1, except that KONG is lower power (at least last I heard). This leads me to think that attenuation might still be the answer. As you might expect, it is difficult, if not impossible, to properly evaluate your reception situation from here. Do you have any neighbors that are successful with more HD channels than you? What is different between your installation and theirs? Keep in mind that with UHF, a few feet can make a significant difference in reception.

Your difficulty and frustration make me feel lucky to live where I do and to have easy DTV reception from Queen Anne, Capitol Hill and Gold Mountain.

I'm afraid my ideas are all used up unless new data becomes available.

Dave-I have a CM 4248 on my tower at 53' rotatable with CM 7777preamp, OK i don't need preamp but I can't get to ant. so I have to live with the current arrangement. I think my next move is to stack 2 RS UHF only ant. with out any amp. and just put that up at ~40 feet just to see if more selectivity will help.
I am still trying to locate a spectrum analyzer for the definitive answer.
Mike

Here is an interesting tidbit. I have a full view of all the towers in Seattle, probably five miles from my Wallingford apartment. Temporarily I am using an old round UHF antenna. Generally I have been getting between 50 and 70% antenna strength, according to the PCI MyHD decoder card. This is good enough and works. But when I close my metal blinds that face the towers, my reception strength on all of these channels goes to 90 or even 100%, even though the antenna is inside behind the blinds. Kind of strange, right.

So if you are close to the towers, maybe putting your antenna directly on the sightline might be an overpowering signal.

The round UHF antenna is temporary, as I have a directional UHF antenna which is cheap and highly rated on-order right now.

sounds right to me-closing those metal blinds will cut of a path for "mutipath" signals thereby cleaning up and strengthening the signal to your receiver.
wish i could put up big metal Shields:-)
I am going to try horizontally stacking 2 RS UHF ant. this should be a good test. however I could only find 1 ant. in the local stores, 1-2 MORE weeks. well it will give be time to build the phasing harness.
Mike

Originally posted by simmike
Here is an interesting tidbit. I have a full view of all the towers in Seattle, probably five miles from my Wallingford apartment. Temporarily I am using an old round UHF antenna. Generally I have been getting between 50 and 70% antenna strength, according to the PCI MyHD decoder card. This is good enough and works. But when I close my metal blinds that face the towers, my reception strength on all of these channels goes to 90 or even 100%, even though the antenna is inside behind the blinds. Kind of strange, right.


Very interesting indeed. Obviously multipath effects are even more bizarre than one might imagine. When you close the blinds you are cutting out one path and that allows another (reflected) path to take over. Since you are so close to the towers almost any path will do. But you don't want too many strong ones or your receiver will give up on locking in.


So if you are close to the towers, maybe putting your antenna directly on the sightline might be an overpowering signal.
This is exactly why people use attenuators when they are close in or have a high-gain antenna.

Originally posted by mrmike99
sounds right to me-closing those metal blinds will cut of a path for "mutipath" signals thereby cleaning up and strengthening the signal to your receiver.
wish i could put up big metal Shields:-)
I am going to try horizontally stacking 2 RS UHF ant. this should be a good test. however I could only find 1 ant. in the local stores, 1-2 MORE weeks. well it will give be time to build the phasing harness.
Mike
Mike - in your recent tests with the attenuator were you still using the preamp? And how is your analog UHF ghosting?

Larry

Larry-preamp is always on or it won't pass a signal-i put 28db att. in line and was still able to get 4-1 solid and no others. i tried varying att. etc. UHF 22 analog is real good quality but lots of vertical lines in background that with good signal strength are not noticeable. so I know its a multipath problem its just the solution that eluding me. so i will try to tighten beam width up by stacking 2 ant.. these two ant. will not be amped, i am only ~12 miles los from towers,
and i thought all i had to do was put a loop out the window:-)
thanks Mike

hmmmm, seems odd you get nothing without the preamp at 12 miles. your stacking idea sounds good - what spacing will you use? BTW is it possible your other antennas on that mast are interfering? -Larry

I am going to try a spacing of 40 to 48 " the aiming gets to touchy if you go any wider. i am just going to strap the ant. assembly to the side of the tower up at ~40' aimed at QA and see what happens- I will only be out another $20-so cheap fun?? if this works i can leave the other ant. pointed at 13-1 and have it all- a guy can dream-
with the preamp off those transistors have a high impedance so i am not to surprised-
now the question of the other ant. I was thinking about this, but how to eliminate that as a possibility? do you think if i could orientate the UHF perpendicular to the others vice in-line that would help? Mike

My antenna knowledge is not that good when it comes to multiple arrays. The perpendicular idea may make a difference, maybe not. You might post this whole antenna thing in a separate post to see what the 'experts' have to say.

I've been following a this thread for a while as I tried a while back to pick up the seattle digitals with very mixed/poor results. I'm located about 3 miles east of Everett Mall which puts a large hill between me and the towers. However trying an antenna craft mxu59 (the best of the bunch) a Channel master 4248, and 4228(the worst here), a dat-75 and a radio shack cheapie uhf only model, I was always able to get Komo with only occasional breakups, and Kiro with several breakups.. (every 30 seconds or so) and never gotten King at all. I could however pick up Kong digital just fine and UPN fine, and of course that shopping channel from Bellevue comes in perfect! I could not get kcts or Fox at all, not even a peep.
I have tried going up as high as 40' (boy was that scary!) and it seems to make little difference over 25'. I guess I'm wondering if you guys think there is any hope for my reception. Of course I have LOS issues, but I also believe I'm fighting some multi path.
Any Ideas why I can get (sorta) Komo and Kiro, but no King? And someone mentioned that Komo was outputting the least power of the 3?
I wouldn't be going through all this If Comcast would come through but I'm tired of waiting, and am going to try local reception again.
I do have a 2nd dat75 antenna that I could try horizontal stacking with, but I would need a lot better way to get it up high (because of the weight) than my current setup? Any tower suggestions??
I know I'm fighting an uphill battle here (no pun intended) but am looking for any suggestions.
Thanks Rick

I once used metal to fight multipath as well but it was the reverse of what simmike did. I used the Jensen amplified low profile indoor UHF/VHF (TV-910?) and got most stations but some dropped more often than others (King seems to be the norm?) I then stuck it on a window pane facing in the general direction of the towers, got better reception but interference was still there, seemed to be worse late afternoon early evening. When I closed the aluminum blind BEHIND it, multipath was solved. I guess it eliminated all the reflected signals. I could have lived with that but did not like all the cable running, so I tried the SS. Amazingly, without any amplification it picked up better signal and did not have multipath problem at all. I guess my problem was signals coming from behind. It would not help if the inteference was coming from the front. BTW, I am not remotely qualified to talk about hardware but I once owned a CAT-TV ready VCR which refused to tune to channel 5, no matter how hard I whacked at it. And I also know a guy who used to own a car that did not shift onto third.

What are the symptoms of multi-path?

On monday my HDTV reception on CBS and NBC was flawless. Good picture and sound. On Tuesday I turned to ABC and was plagued by bad problems. The worst was the sound would go out of sync with the picture and break up with static. The picture would occasionally cause problems, but the sound was the most bothersome. I haven't got a good antenna just yet, so it is most likely reception problems. It was almost as if the sound was coming from one direction and the picture from another. I have a clear view of the TV towers on Queen Anne hill. The ones on Capitol hill don't give me any trouble.

I tried putting my antenna in the back of a large box covered in aluminum foil and directing this box specifically at the towers. Didn't see to help much.

I have the Zenith silver sensor antenna on order.

Originally posted by simmike
What are the symptoms of multi-path?

On monday my HDTV reception on CBS and NBC was flawless. Good picture and sound. On Tuesday I turned to ABC and was plagued by bad problems. The worst was the sound would go out of sync with the picture and break up with static. The picture would occasionally cause problems, but the sound was the most bothersome. I haven't got a good antenna just yet, so it is most likely reception problems. It was almost as if the sound was coming from one direction and the picture from another. I have a clear view of the TV towers on Queen Anne hill. The ones on Capitol hill don't give me any trouble.

I tried putting my antenna in the back of a large box covered in aluminum foil and directing this box specifically at the towers. Didn't see to help much.

I have the Zenith silver sensor antenna on order.
I had trouble with my SIR-T150 and KOMO sound until I upgraded the firmware to 2.0 (beta, I believe). This is not available at the Samsung site so I don't know what the story is. But it did curre my audio problems. The sound being out of sync is another class of problem. This seems to happen on lots of brands and lots of stations on occasion. The KOMO engineer suggested changing channels and then changing back and that seems to work. He thinks it is a design problem whereby audio synch can be lost without the receiver knowing there is a problem. What is your receiver?

Originally posted by RickE
I've been following a this thread for a while as I tried a while back to pick up the seattle digitals with very mixed/poor results. I'm located about 3 miles east of Everett Mall which puts a large hill between me and the towers.
post your nearest intersection and I will check you LOS & hills - maybe 40' is not enough!

Larry

Originally posted by quarque
I had trouble with my SIR-T150 and KOMO sound until I upgraded the firmware to 2.0 (beta, I believe). This is not available at the Samsung site so I don't know what the story is. But it did curre my audio problems. The sound being out of sync is another class of problem. This seems to happen on lots of brands and lots of stations on occasion. The KOMO engineer suggested changing channels and then changing back and that seems to work. He thinks it is a design problem whereby audio synch can be lost without the receiver knowing there is a problem. What is your receiver?

Actually I'm using a MyHD PCI card. I think most of the problem is the cheapo antenna, an old UHF loop. Every other channel comes in pretty good. Komo 4 is the only one giving me trouble. Fortunately today, the audio problems are just static breaking up, not sync problems. I was also starting to get worried about the decoder card, but why would the other channels work OK, even in HD format?

KOMO news also has a problem with the HDTV resolution bouncing between HD and regular definition for certain shots. I heard someone else complaining about Monday night football doing the same thing.

I believe the symptoms of multi-path is one minute you get 90% signal (as whatever indicated by each manufacturer) and 0% the next, and it keeps doing that. When you have picture but not sound or out of synch it is a different problem. Early on, and now but it seems to have improved or I have got used to it, I had problems with digital audio drop-outs. Picture was perfect, analog audio was perfect, just digital audio. STB tech said it was the stations and the stations said otherwise. My solution? Crank the analog audio a bit higher so when digital audio drops I wouldn't have to lose the dialogue. You may have multi-path problem but that does not seem to be the culprit for what you described above. In your earlier post, you said you closed the blind in front of the antenna and pick better signals? It seemed like you get better reflected signals but have problem with the towers' direction. When I closed the blind in front of the antenna, I got nothing, and that seemed logical to me. Have fun, trial and error is one way to learn, sometimes expensive.

Hi everyone,

I've been quiet on here until finishing my attic installation of the 4228. It works Great! I did buy the SS and didn't have any better results that what I was having before.

I took apart the 4228 and re-assembled it in my attic, and was able to pick up all the channels very clearly. I snaked a coax cable down into my room where the HDTV is, and everything is working beautifully.

Larry and others, I can't thank you enough for all your help. I could not have done this without you, and you solved a lot of my problems by answering my questions in advance of me doing the work.

Thanks again for everything. I'm happily enjoying all the Seattle HD programming.

-Mike

I know WB and Fox are sharing the WB tower on Capitol Hill. I just watched Smallville on WB and I didn't like the HD feed. They are doing just like PBS, channel 9, compressing the HDTV signal too much. This causes visible pixelization when the camera pans quickly. CBS, NBC and ABC all have the higher HDTV feed.

My question is: if Fox does start broadcasting HDTV, will the WB antenna in Seattle broadcast this on the sub-channel? I have a hard time getting the legitimate Fox signal KCPQ13, which comes from Tacoma.

By the way, out of curiosity, is WB broadcasting on a sub-channel of the Fox antenna in Tacoma? I assume they have an arrangement to broadcast each others feed digitally.

Originally posted by simmike
By the way, out of curiosity, is WB broadcasting on a sub-channel of the Fox antenna in Tacoma? I assume they have an arrangement to broadcast each others feed digitally.

Yes, WB is on 13-2

Originally posted by mquantum
Hi everyone,

I've been quiet on here until finishing my attic installation of the 4228. It works Great! I did buy the SS and didn't have any better results that what I was having before.

I took apart the 4228 and re-assembled it in my attic, and was able to pick up all the channels very clearly. I snaked a coax cable down into my room where the HDTV is, and everything is working beautifully.

Larry and others, I can't thank you enough for all your help. I could not have done this without you, and you solved a lot of my problems by answering my questions in advance of me doing the work.

Thanks again for everything. I'm happily enjoying all the Seattle HD programming.

-Mike
another successful 4228 installation - I think I will start buying CM stock. You are about the fifth person to try it recently and have great results with it - glad to hear about your success!

Larry

Originally posted by simmike
Actually I'm using a MyHD PCI card. I think most of the problem is the cheapo antenna, an old UHF loop. Every other channel comes in pretty good. Komo 4 is the only one giving me trouble. Fortunately today, the audio problems are just static breaking up, not sync problems. I was also starting to get worried about the decoder card, but why would the other channels work OK, even in HD format?

KOMO news also has a problem with the HDTV resolution bouncing between HD and regular definition for certain shots. I heard someone else complaining about Monday night football doing the same thing.

The UHF loop is very non-directional so you are probably getting strong reflections of KOMO - you can try the "tinfoil shielding" trick that others have mentioned. Hang a 2' piece near the loop and start moving it around the circumference to see if it will block one or more relfections.

The business about HD/SD on the news is not a "problem". Much of the location shots are in SD because they don't have enough HD mobile cameras yet. Same thing at sporting events - many sideline cameras are SD (maybe they don't want to risk an expensive HD camera being hit by the ball?).

Originally posted by simmike
I know WB and Fox are sharing the WB tower on Capitol Hill. I just watched Smallville on WB and I didn't like the HD feed. They are doing just like PBS, channel 9, compressing the HDTV signal too much. This causes visible pixelization when the camera pans quickly. CBS, NBC and ABC all have the higher HDTV feed.

My question is: if Fox does start broadcasting HDTV, will the WB antenna in Seattle broadcast this on the sub-channel? I have a hard time getting the legitimate Fox signal KCPQ13, which comes from Tacoma.

By the way, out of curiosity, is WB broadcasting on a sub-channel of the Fox antenna in Tacoma? I assume they have an arrangement to broadcast each others feed digitally.

KTWB and KCPQ are both owned by Tribune and they will most likely always broadcast the same programming & bandwidth from both towers. So it should not matter which one you tune in.

Originally posted by quarque
KTWB and KCPQ are both owned by Tribune and they will most likely always broadcast the same programming & bandwidth from both towers. So it should not matter which one you tune in.

I'm hoping that when Fox goes HD next fall this will end this practice!

Well I certainly wouldn't mind full-bandwidth HD from both locations!

Originally posted by quarque
Well I certainly wouldn't mind full-bandwidth HD from both locations!

I'm not sure which you mean. If you mean Fox HD on 13-1 and WB HD on 22-1 with no 13-2 and 22-2, then I agree with you.

If you mean Fox HD on 13-1 and 22-2 with WB HD on 13-2 and 22-1, then I don't agree. There isn't enough bandwidth available to carry HD on two subchannels without serious compression artifacts.

Originally posted by drewba
I'm hoping that when Fox goes HD next fall this will end this practice!
Well, I hope they both stay. I get 13's digital channel, but not 22's digital, 'cept via 13.2. They're doing the dual broadcast for a reason. Best reception for the most viewers. Neither of their tower locations works for tne entire Puget Sound region.

Originally posted by quarque
KTWB and KCPQ are both owned by Tribune and they will most likely always broadcast the same programming & bandwidth from both towers. So it should not matter which one you tune in.

FTY: The Fox (13/18) tower is near Bremerton, not Tacoma. Both Fox and WB's affils broadcast from the same studio/master control facilities in Seattle.

Originally posted by artshotwell
Well, I hope they both stay. I get 13's digital channel, but not 22's digital, 'cept via 13.2. They're doing the dual broadcast for a reason. Best reception for the most viewers. Neither of their tower locations works for tne entire Puget Sound region.

I understand that, but the problem is that by shoehorning in two HD streams, the picture quality is most likely really going to suffer. I think that the long term solution will have to be stations broadcasting at full power and improvements in receivers.

Congrats Mike. That proved how much I know. It still bugs me whether such installation is "overkill". Probably not since nothing else worked.

Originally posted by artshotwell
Well, I hope they both stay. I get 13's digital channel, but not 22's digital, 'cept via 13.2. They're doing the dual broadcast for a reason. Best reception for the most viewers. Neither of their tower locations works for tne entire Puget Sound region.

I agree. Even though I don't like the extra compression of HDTV with this sharing arrangement, I like the fact I can recieve the Tacoma over-the-air station because it is coming from Seattle.

It kind of bothers me that these broadcasters are splitting up their digital space. I don't think that was the intention when they were granted the UHF channel for HDTV. I just have a horrible feeling unscrupulous operators will split their digital feed to 4 or more sub channels and we'll get the same trashy sewing channel and stuff nobody ever watches, instead of full HDTV.

Can't let this good thread die... Anyone South of Everett get 35 KVOS-DT? If yes, what is your config? Thanks.

Originally posted by tuquet
Can't let this good thread die... Anyone South of Everett get 35 KVOS-DT? If yes, what is your config? Thanks.
Good threads never die, they just fade away...
KVOS? My antenna is pointed the wrong direction so I get nothing. I tried my old RS bowtie from my living room and barely get a blip of signal once in a while.

Hello All -- an update here, along with a question about antenna mounting...

I have taken the plunge and ordered a Dish HD box that includes an OTA tuner. Now am I preparing to order the Channel Master 4228 (I live in NE Everett, near Lake Stevens).

My question is: what "mast" or mounting pole/device should I order along with the CM 4228?

I spoke to a guy at Pringle Electronics and he said a 18 gauge mast would be just fine, but he didn't give me a model number. He wants $85 for the 4228 so I am going to get it on the web for $50.

I plan on mounting it on my roof. It is slanted and has no chimney. Any advice you could give would be appreciated.

actually, Radio Shack is a good place for the mounting hardware. they have the adjustable roofmounts and poles(masts) to go as high as you need. But a simple 10' mast with mounting hardware and guywire, should be ~35$. good luck. Mike

also Lowes and other hardware type places carry some antenna mounting stuff and the prices are usually reasonable. try to mount the mast off the end of the house so you don't have to poke holes in the roof.

Thanks guys -- I will check Lowes and RS for the mast/mounts. FYI -- I got my Dish 6000 installed yesterday and got my first view of HDTV on my Tv. Wow -- I am so stoked.

Now I'm going to work for the OTA stuff (CM 4228 will arrive Oct. 13th). One question I still have is how to properly ground the antenna. The side of the house/roof where the 4228 is going is on the opposite side of the house from my "official" underground ground. I guess I could run a wire around the house...

But I was wondering if I could tie the CM 4228 ground into my existing Dish Network stuff. Surely that equipment is grounded, and I think the tech may have already run a line around to my houses ground. Is there a way to ground the CM 4228 to the ground (if it is grounded?) on my satellite dish?

Thanks a bunch. I'll keep you posted on how things go. BTW -- Until yesterday I didn't know about all the "subchannels." I was at antennaweb and saw channels like 4, 5, 7, 38, 39, etc., but no 4-1, 4-2, etc.

If I ask my OTA tuner to scan will it pull in all the subchannels or will I have to punch them in manually? And if I want to input subchannel "4-1" how would I type that in?

Sorry for my ignorance about the OTA and grounding stuff -- I'm trying to learn!

I can't tell you much about the grounding, I've always used indoor or attic antennas. However, a search here should help you out.

As for sub-channels, a scan should find all of them. All of DTV channels are identified by sub-channel. For example, KOMO has only one digital channel and it is on 4-1. The only Seattle stations that I know of that use multiple sub-channels are KCTS (9-1,9-2,9-3,9-4,9-5), KCPQ (13-1, 22-2) and KTWB (22-1,13-2).

Just found this thread and realized how much I have been missing out!

I have built an HD HTPC system using MyHDII with DVI and had some success pulling in some OTA channels with an RS VU-75XR 18 element yagi mouted in the attic with an RS Cable TV high gain amplifier. Of the channels I care about receiving, only channel 48 (NBC/King) is unreliable with significant dropouts even when pointed for optimum signal.

I have exprimented with the Zenith SS with no success and was also thinking of the trying the Xium. After reading this entire thread, I am inclined to try the CM4228. Before I do....

Larry: would you be so kind as to check the LOS for intersection of SE 24th Way and 194th Ave SE in Sammamish (some maps have this as Issaquah)? Given that, can you tell me if the CM4228 or Xium would improve my situation over the RS setup?

Thank you very much - and how do I drop in my $0.25?

Kenny:o

Kenny,

Your LOS is somewhat marginal dues to the hill across the lake from you. But it looks like you just clear the hill when I plot it out. The problem with KING dropping out may be to something in the path or a reflection that causes the receiver to lose track. I don't know if the 4228 will help but it is worth a try. I have seen it work for many people on this forum where other antennas failed. I would definitely put whatever you try up on the roof since being in the attic is not helping your situation. You need as much height as you can get.

Oh, and leave the quarter under your pillow - the HD fairy will come by while you're asleep...

Good luck.

Larry

Hello All -- I'm getting close to installing the CM 4228 and three questions came up.

1) Have any of you installed an antenna rotor for seattle stations?

It seems that abc,cbs,nbc are all on the same bearing, pbs is close by, and that the only other I might want is fox.

If you have installed one, why? Did it have to do w/ the install process and "finding" the signals on your own w/out a buddy on the roof?

2) Also -- do I have to use any particular type of wire for the groundwire? I saw 40' of aluminum "ground wire" for $5 at R.Shack and I can by a copper ground pole (I'll have to dig and bury it myself) for $10. I'm looking to keep the cost minimal on grounding...

3) How many of you used or purchased an actual compass for your OTA install? Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Larry,

I'm wondering if you can check my location on the topo -- I'm near the interesection of Seattle Hill Rd. and 137th SE, just east of Mill Creek (Snohomish address). It's fairly far out, so I am wondering how big of a Channel Master to get. Thanks a lot!

-Lance

Lance,

You should have no problem. You're at the same altitude as QA hill and there is nothing in the way. I would use the CM 4228 since it seems to work for almost everyone and has more than enough range. I use one and I'm only 6 miles from QA - so no problem with overloads. Bearing is 207 degrees at 18.5 miles to QA. Aim 3 degrees east of that to cover CH towers as well. Good luck.

Ron,

I would use a rotor if I wanted the PAX and other eastside stuff but I didn't feel it was worth it. I have my 4228 pointed halfway between QA and CH - that gives me digitals for 4,5,6,7,9,11,13,22. I think since you are in Everett you probably won't need a rotor - everything is within a 15-degree window which is easily handled by the 4228. I looked up the thread where I gave you the topo info. Just aim about 20 deg. west of due south - it ain't that critical. +/-5 won't be noticed.

As far as grounding goes, it depends on whether you want to meet code. I'm not sure what it says about aluminum for antennas. It will work, since the ground is there to drain off charge, not to take on a lightning bolt. And it should go to the building ground point, not a separate one, to avoid potential buildup. I would scan these forums on grounding if you don't get any useful replies (like mine).

Larry