Wouldn't we be even lucky to GET the set "within 10 days" of purchase, let alone return the card. It sounds like our chances of getting the warranty extended are, for all intents and purposes, practically nil. Your thoughts?

Well, for me, the purchase date and delivery date were the same.....I think Samsung just wants to get the card back, and won't quibble about a day or two or three.....And to me the "purchase" isn't completed until you take delivery of the set......

There must be something more worthwhile to worry about. :cool:

Do any of you owners or wantabe owners of the HLN willing to measure the actual screen Height and Width and post it here. I have a Mits 50 IN 4:3 and I am trying to decide if I want to get a 50 IN or 56 IN DLP for the replacement. It is not easy to envision how a set on display will look in my theater.

Arun's chart in the guide could be updated to reflect these measurements.

I used to have a link to a site that had a great calculator for determining screen dimensions for both 4:3 and 16:9 but I have lost it.

Thanks.

Originally posted by raymar99
Do any of you owners or wantabe owners of the HLN willing to measure the actual screen Height and Width and post it here. I have a Mits 50 IN 4:3 and I am trying to decide if I want to get a 50 IN or 56 IN DLP for the replacement. It is not easy to envision how a set on display will look in my theater.

Arun's chart in the guide could be updated to reflect these measurements.

I used to have a link to a site that had a great calculator for determining screen dimensions for both 4:3 and 16:9 but I have lost it.

Thanks.

This involes in solving a simple geometry problem. The width of the 16:9 screen is the diagonal measurement x 0.8716, and the screen height is the diagonal measurement x 0.4903. For example, the 50" diagonal wide screen (16:9) would have screen width of 50" x 0.8716 = 43.58" and screen heigh of 50" x 0.4903 = 24.52".

Just to be complete: The 4:3 screen multipliers are: 0.8 (for the width), and 0.6 (for the height). For example, on a 35" 4:3 screen, the width of the screen is 35" x 0.8 = 28", and the height is 35" x 0.6 = 21".

Originally posted by raymar99
Arun's chart in the guide could be updated to reflect these measurements.

Here are the vertical and horizontal screen dimensions. I shall also add them to the guide.

TV Size = Wide 87.16% x High 49.03%
61 inch = 53.1676 x 29.9083
56 inch = 48.8096 x 27.4568
50 inch = 43.5800 x 24.5150
46 inch = 40.0936 x 22.5538
43 inch = 37.4788 x 21.0829

Geez, what took you guys so long. I go and search for an screen aspect ratio calculator and come back and everything is posted already. Great Job. Sure takes the work out of the equation.

OK guys, using the 56" and 50" dimensions above for the screen size and the overall cabinet widths from page 4 of the "Unoffical Guide" for the same two units, I come up with a calculated bezel width of :

HLN567W 49.9 Width - 48.8096 Screen width = 1.09 / 2 = 0.545 inches

HLN507W 46.6 width - 43.58 Screen width = 3.02 / 2 = 1.51 inches

Does this seem to be about the correct width for the bezels - slighly more than 1/2 inch for the new 56 IN screen and 1 1/2 inches for the 50 IN?

In the few pictures of the new units that I have seen in print (a onecall ad and the two page inside cover of most of the recent A/V magazines), the charcoal bezel looks more like one inch or so rather than 1/2 inch.

Any comments?

Thanks.

Originally posted by kmil
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ride525
[B]My understanding is that Samsung's warrenty is for 1 year, parts and labor.
And Samsung will extend that to 15 months, if you send in the warrenty card within 10 days....

RIDE525: Does the "15 month extension" refer to Samsung getting the card "within 10 days" OR having it postmarked within 10 days? Also, would the 10 days be from the day you PLACE the order, the day it is shipped, OR.......within 10 days after you have signed the shipping receipt.

Well, I just registered my HLN437, which I received on 7/3/03, today online and my "registered products" status screen shows "Yes" under warranty extension. So, I'm guessing that 10-day window isn't all that strictly enforced (or it's a 30-day window instead). HTH.

Arun Gupta: a discussion in the LCOS thread led to a question about the relative energy efficiency of various TVs. We have general agreement about plasmas being big consumers, some info on LCOS putting out heat and using more power than comparable CRT RPs, but no one has found clear facts on various DLP models' power consumption. Does your manual list the power consumption for your unit, and do you or others have data on any of the other models? The Samsung USA site does not list it, and I think it would be great if the next version of your guide contained that hard to get info. It's clear the Samsung has a low consumption sleep mode, because it has the Energy Star. But how much above the 100W bulb minimum does the unit consume?

According to the downloadable manual for the HLM4365, all the sets consume 200W of power. There are no numbers listed for the standby modes. In comparison, the Samsung HDTV CRT HCH551W consumes 245w and .95 in standby.

Thanks, Andrew67. That is in the range I'd hoped it would be. Is the manual on the Samsumgusa site?

Yes it is. Check here:

http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/support/b2c_support_gate.jsp?prod_path=/Audio%20and%20Video/TV&eUser=

The Sammy manual says 200 watts.

I researched this issue to purchase a UPS system for my Sammy. With record heat here in Salt Lake City, the power goes out a few times a week. Now, if the power goes out, the UPS will give me a few minutes to turn off the TV and allow the fan to cool the bulb.

Getting a UPS may be a good idea for all Sammy owners.

Arun,

Why don't you add a section to your guide regarding 'best' heights for the Samsung DLP's ? I am waiting for the HLN467W and the top of the set
will be 56" from the floor. Is that an OK height, I will be sitting on normal size chairs ( My wife and I are 5' 6" and 5' 4" )

Dick

Originally posted by Dick
Arun,

Why don't you add a section to your guide regarding 'best' heights for the Samsung DLP's ? I am waiting for the HLN467W and the top of the set
will be 56" from the floor. Is that an OK height, I will be sitting on normal size chairs ( My wife and I are 5' 6" and 5' 4" )

Dick
So that means the bottom will be 56-30 = 26 inches. That's only a little higher than a preferable height of around 20 inches for the base of the TV. So you should be fine.

Ideally, for all TV's, the best height is when your eye is in line with the center of the screen in your normal sitting position. However +- 15 inches from this ideal shouldn't be a problem.

You guys, especially Arun Gupta, are the best. I just saw some of these amazing sets for the first time yesterday. Circuit City had the HLN507W for $3799.99. Best Buy had the HLN5065 for $3999.99. For the life of me, I couldn't distinguish between these sets. Then I downloaded the brochures from Samsungusa.com. Aha, I thought, the CHEAPER one has Faroudja processing.

Then I read through this enlightening thread, and downloaded Mr Gupta's thorough documentation. Now I know. They all got Faroudja. The difference is in the bezel!!!!

Was Samsung once in the mattress business?? ;-)

I've also learned that the $1K Denon DVD player I bought a couple of months so I'd have component video, and quality DVD-A and SACD playback, will now primarily be an audio player. I've ordered the Bravo D1, and will be heading to Circuit City after work.

Thanks guys!
(apologies if there are gals I need to thank too: thank you. it's just that I never seem to see any on these forums!)

Phaseshift - congrats on your purchase - you should LOVE the 507 combined with the Bravo! You're also being a remarkably good sport about the Denon purchase turning out to not be what you thought you needed!

Cheers,
RDaneel

Good luck with your purchase, phaseshift. I'm sure you'll enjoy your TV.

I second RDanneel - Samsung DLP and Bravo D1 make a great combination. A PC also makes a great companion to this TV - just imagine playing your favorite PC game on a high-res large monitor.

Circuit City has no idea when they'll have the 507 in stock. Almost next door, Best Buy wanted 3999 for the 5065, but armed with what I learned on this thread, I was able to convince the guy that the 507 and the 5065 were essentially identical, and he gave me $100 off on the 5065. Should arrive Thursday.

The upgrade that's available would only bring me discrete codes, right?

RDaneel: At least I had time to cancel the order for a quality component cable I'd put in!

Originally posted by phaseshift
The upgrade that's available would only bring me discrete codes, right?

It is likely that the set you get will already have the discrete codes - if its manufacturing date is mid-june or later.

I just picked up my HLN-5065 from Best Buy on Saturday.

It is still in the box! (Been too busy with other things to unpack it.)

I ended up getting the 5065 for $3499, but they probably came down on the price because I bought the 4-year "service agreement" for $299. I bought the SA because the sales guy said it included bulb replacement (which means one bulb replacement practically pays for the SA). I found that hard to believe, so I had him write "includes bulb replacement" on the SA document that was provided, so when my bulb goes out, I have something to argue about...

(Has anybody had any luck with Best Buy's service agreement and getting things like lamps replaced?)

P.S. To keep this on-topic: thanks Arun for your Unoffical Guide to the HLN Series DLP sets! I studied it quite a bit before "taking the plunge" and I look forward to many happy years with my new set!

Arun: If you do put the power consumption and other specs into the next edition, I've followed Andrew's link and downloaded the all DLP manual. This document - for non-tantus models only - reports power consumption at 180W for all 4 smaller size models and 200W for the 61". That makes more sense than 200W for all models, when we know the 61 has a bigger bulb. BTW, 180W for a 50" RP is fairly spectacular from an energy conservation perspective. I will be using less power than my current 32" set, even adding a 35W set top box. That's the right direction.

Originally posted by phaseshift
Circuit City has no idea when they'll have the 507 in stock. Almost next door, Best Buy wanted 3999 for the 5065, but armed with what I learned on this thread, I was able to convince the guy that the 507 and the 5065 were essentially identical, and he gave me $100 off on the 5065. Should arrive Thursday.

The upgrade that's available would only bring me discrete codes, right?

RDaneel: At least I had time to cancel the order for a quality component cable I'd put in!

For the HLM models, the HLM507W was $200 more than the HLM5065W.

Dick asks:

Why don't you add a section to your guide regarding 'best' heights for the Samsung DLP's ? I am waiting for the HLN467W and the top of the set

That is a perfect height for you and your 46" TV. If the top of the set is at 56", the center of the 46" screen will be at 43". At 5'6" tall, your eyes will be at ~44" when you sit in a normal height chair. More or less straight on axis with the screen center. Perfect!

john stephens

Originally posted by Jbach
Arun: If you do put the power consumption and other specs into the next edition, I've followed Andrew's link and downloaded the all DLP manual. This document - for non-tantus models only - reports power consumption at 180W for all 4 smaller size models and 200W for the 61". That makes more sense than 200W for all models, when we know the 61 has a bigger bulb. BTW, 180W for a 50" RP is fairly spectacular from an energy conservation perspective. I will be using less power than my current 32" set, even adding a 35W set top box. That's the right direction.
Thanks I'll add that.

The next edition is almost cooked. I've been waiting for first-hand reports from 46" and 56" customers, but they don't seem to be coming soon. So I'm posting the new edition in a day.

Originally posted by EddyGeez
I look forward to many happy years with my new set!
I'm sure you will. My appreciation of this TV continues to grow.

After watching some HD movies, I realized that I could never watch SD broadcast movies again. The near-HD picture quality from DVI equipped DVD players solved this problem. So now we're buiding a DVD collection. I just started using DVD Profiler (http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=2&q=http://www.dvdprofiler.com/dvdpro/&e=912) to catalog this collection. What an amazing product. Being a software professional, I'm not easily impressed by Software. But this one rocks!!

Anyway, hope you enjoy your TV as much as we do.

I'm sure you will. My appreciation of this TV continues to grow.



Arun,


I agree I have had mine (HLN617W) since 7/7 and am continually more impresssed. (I graduated from a 3 yr old Mitsu HDTV)

In addition, watching D-VHS movies on the JVC 30K is nothing short of stunning.

I got a call from 1-800SAMSUNG today in response to a question I had about the actual screen size and the bezel dimensions. Here is what they said?

HLN507W Actual Viewable Screen 24 3/4 by 44". Bezel 1 1/4 top and bottom, 1 1/2" on sides.

HLN567W Actual Viewable Screen 27 1/2 by 49". Bezel 5/8 top and sides, 1 1/4 bottom.

This should be the exact dimensions as compared to the calculated dimensions. Just goes to show the 50 and 56 inches is a nominal number and not 50.0 and 56.0.

The computed dimensions for 16:9 screens are:

Diagonal = Wide x High
50 inch = 43.5800 x 24.5150
56 inch = 48.8096 x 27.4568

I think that the measured ones are the same as computed ones - given that people approximate when they measure.

Its good to know the the actual bezel dimensions. I shall add them to the guide.

Originally posted by arungupta
The computed dimensions for 16:9 screens are:

Diagonal = Wide x High
50 inch = 43.5800 x 24.5150
56 inch = 48.8096 x 27.4568

I think that the measured ones are the same as computed ones - given that people approximate when they measure.

Its good to know the the actual bezel dimensions. I shall add them to the guide.

The numbers still do not add up correctly. Not that 3/8 inch is critical or anything. If I take the 49.9" width from the pdf file info on the N567W and subtract the 0.625 x 2 for the side bezels, I come up with 48 5/8 screen width not 49 as stated by the Samsung rep. Maybe the 49.9" is really 49.875 or 49 7/8 and now we are only missing 1/4 inch and everyone should be able to live with a 1/4 in slack on 4 feet or so.

Anyway, you are correct. It is nice to know the bezel widths. Thanks.

BTW, check out the thread on the 507W vs the Sony DLP at CC. (Don't know how to post a link to another thread)

Does anyone know the "true" story about the green LED light that used to be on all the time and now seems to only come on when it needs to signal the user?

I thought Samsung "improved" the sets by getting rid of the constant green LED. One person has had his HLN replaced because the LED wasn't on all the time. Clarity! I'm looking for clarity! ... and help!

HLN617W here, I just noticed the green LED is on all the time (with power on) So faint I didnt notice it, what is the issue again?


I prefer it in case I fail to power off the TV. Am I missing something?

Any thoughts on how the following will look on the HLN617 as compared to the 12 year old 27" Mitsu I'm now watching:

1. direcTV SD via DVI

2. Tivo recorded programs via s-video

1. direcTV SD via DVI


Most channels / programs, especially premium ones, look good to very good. Some are poor to fair, but I wouldn't watch them anyway. It is very revealing of defects in the source programs, so you can tell which ones were produced well.

How about Tivo recorded programs through s-video - which is, by the way, my biggest concern since I watch so much of it. If there was a firm timeline when the HD Tivo was coming out that I could live with, this wouldn't be a problem. However, estimates as to when it will be released are all over the chart.

I don't have direct experience with Tivo. I have UltimateTV - which unfortunately compresses the signal before storing - so the recorded programs are not as good as watching it live. As I understand it, Tivo doesn't compress it, so playing back recorded should be as good as playing it live.

Why don't you take a Tivo box with recorded programs to a local retailer and check it out.

Good idea. I'll do that.

Originally posted by brick33308
How about Tivo recorded programs through s-video - which is, by the way, my biggest concern since I watch so much of it. If there was a firm timeline when the HD Tivo was coming out that I could live with, this wouldn't be a problem. However, estimates as to when it will be released are all over the chart.


We (and by "we" I mean my wife) watch a lot of SD TiVo content via S-video on our HLN437
(TWC) and the quality ranges from poor to good. One piece of advice is to revisit your quality
setting. On our old 27" tube set, we were satisfied with recording in "Good" quality. Artifacts
at that level of compression bugged me on the new set and we're now at "Better" quality. If
we had more capacity (30 hour unit) I'd record everything at "Best" quality, as you can tell a
big difference on these larger displays. HTH...enjoy!
- Craig

cmf, I forgot about the recording options!

Is there a chance I could talk you into recording something say for 15 minutes using the best quality and then let me know how it played back on your sammy? I've got a 120 gig hard drive in my tivo, so I've got plenty of capacity to record everything in best quality.

Brick: when you're watching "Live TV" through the TiVo, that's basically what "Best" quality looks like. I notice a significant and bothersome (to me, but not to the wife) difference across all four quality levels on the Sammy, so if you have the space, I'd definitely have it record in "Best" quality all the time -- you'll be happiest then. HTH.
- Craig

Arun - do you, or anyone else for that matter, know which firmware revision began including the discrete codes? I have 211, and I would be quite happy if I had them, in case I move to a Harmony/Pronto in the future. I think that Jess/Iceblade said he has 214 on his new set, and has all the codes (power on/off and inputs are the only ones, right?). I can't test my 211 set, but someone must have tried...

Thanks,
RDaneel

211 only has discrete on and off. 214 has the on and off as well as all the inputs. Not sure if it has others as I haven't really dug into it at all or had any need to at this point.

Later,
Jeff

Firmware 209 has discrete on/off (verified with my own TV), and I believe 211 does as well. Only 214 and higher (which haven't yet been reported) have discrete inputs, I believe, from what's been said here.

Oops...that will teach me to take a phone call *before* hitting "Submit".

[QUOTE]Originally posted by arungupta
[

Arun: you mentioned your new HLN Guide would be posted Sunday. If it has please include a link. Secondly, I'm planning on getting the new 46 HLN and only have 42 1/2 inches from trim piece to trim piece on my bottom. Since I am going to have to angle the TV so all can see, my question is can I make the width of the stand (I'm having made) at 40 inches? Maybe 39 inches would give me more room to angle it. I know the HLN467w is 40.6 inches but wouldn't a 39 inch wide stand (21 in deep) more than support the HLN467w.

Sorry, kmil I haven't made that upgrade to the guide yet. Other distractions - here is one for example:

To try and put a lot of speculation to rest, I decided to test the various ways of connecting your sources to digital displays.

See this thread and post:
Testing PQ on Digital Displays: DVI, VGA, Component, 1x1 mapping
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=283340

Iceblade,

I've read a lot of your previous posts regarding your experiece/issues with the HLN617, I'm seriously considering that set, but waiting to see the Philips LCOS, possibly the new Toshibas, (but really want a table top). If you don't mind, I would be interested to know how you feel about the 617 now that you've been living with it for a few months, thanks.

-Greg

I just posted this to the DLP upgrade thread as well. May answer some of your questions. I got this today from Samsung




To: ALL SAMSUNG ASC
From: Samsung Field Service
Date: June-25, 2003
RE: Upgrade of Digital PCB / DLP models only

Dear Service Manager,
In late June 2003, we will notify our customers regarding an upgrade for the following models:
· HLM437W, HLM5065W, HLM4365W, HLM507W, HLM617W,
· All HLN Models.
The upgrade will add the following features:
· DNIE
· IR Discrete Control code ability
· Video Level/Aspect Ratio memory

Attached is a Service Bulletin detailing the entire upgrade procedure, which will includes the new part number for the Digital PCB. Customer will pay you directly $ 200.00 plus any applicable tax.
_______________________________________________________
Procedure:
1. Customers will register on line at: http://www.samsungusa.com/dlpupgrade
2. Samsung will confirm ASC’s acceptance of the $200.00 labor quote and supply customer data to the ASC.
3. Samsung will send upgrade board free of charge to ASC.
4. ASC will contact the customer and schedule appointment.
5. ASC will Install Main Digital PCB ASSY/ Perform adjustments (See Service Bulletin).
6. Labor quoted to Customer $200.00 plus local tax if applicable.
7. No warranty claim will be made to Samsung.


Any questions regarding this procedure can be directed to your Regional Service Engineer.











SERVICE BULLETINPRODUCT: Digital Light ProcessorBULLETIN NUMBER: BULLETIN DATE: May 2003MODEL: HLM & HLN ModelsCHASSIS: L62A(N) & L62A(N) Rev. 2









SUBJECT: DLP Upgrade


SYMPTOM: The Main Digital PCB has been modified to include the following
features:

1. DNIe (Digital Natural Image engine) Video Enhancement
2. Aspect and Video Settings Memory (Retention after Power On / Off and Input Selection change)
3. Discreet Codes (Power On / Off and Input Selection)



Upgrade: Order the part number below for the proper size DLP the customer is
registered for. Make sure the version number of the PCB that was ordered is 212 or higher.

43” or 50” DLP Part Number = BP94-00502W
61” DLP Part Number = BP94-00385A

PROCEDURE:

1. Before replacing the Main Digital PCB, enter the SVC Mode and record the DELAY and LAMP type settings located under the DDP1010 Adjustments, and the FAN NUM setting located under the OPTION Adjustments.
§ SVC Mode entry from stand-by mode = (Mute) + (1) + (8) + (2) + (Power)
2. Replace the Main Digital PCB.
Note: The Main Digital PCB is shipped with a dummy short connector inserted in the top Fan connector. On 43” and 50” models, leave this connector in the PCB during installation. For 61” models, remove this connector and insert the Ballast Fan connector here.
3. Assemble the DLP unit.
4. Enter SVC Mode again and perform the following:
a. Re-enter the DELAY setting that was recorded before.
b. Set the LAMP type to match the one recorded in the unit before.
43” & 50” = TOS/PHIL or TOS-75Hz
61” = OSRAM or TOS-75Hz
c. Under the OPTION Adjustments check and set FAN NUM to the appropriate setting.
43” & 50” = 2
61” = 3
Perform the USERRESET by selecting it.

Originally posted by Egan
Iceblade,

I've read a lot of your previous posts regarding your experiece/issues with the HLN617, I'm seriously considering that set, but waiting to see the Philips LCOS, possibly the new Toshibas, (but really want a table top). If you don't mind, I would be interested to know how you feel about the 617 now that you've been living with it for a few months, thanks.

-Greg

Greg,

Well, unfortunately (or fortunately for me) I can't comment on this right now because I got brand new innards for my tv as of yesterday. I was one of the biggest loudmouths when it came to pointing out the MANY issues I had with this set. I was suffering from serious buyer's remorse. Fast forward to yesterday... I get the 214 firmware and new digital board and alot of the issues seem to have gone bye bye with that piece of crap old 204 board. I had one of the earliest known (in the US) models of the HLN617 back in early early April I think. My guess is that it was somewhat of a dud that went out the door and as such my viewing enjoyment suffered. I will be recording the OOTB settings tonight hopefully and then have it re-ISF calibrated by DocDVD over the phone in the next couple days hopefully.

For the time being, suffice it to say that I am cautiously optimistic that my PQ will only get better after calibration.

I plan on hooking up every friggin connection that I can to this tv, just so I can toggle between the many different output types (DVI, Comp, PC, S-Vid) and see how they look comparatively. I THINK I have all the necessary cables to do this. I am running most everything through my B&K AVR507 right now (not DVI or PC though). I still have more connections to make so hopefully this weekend I will be able to to post what I think of everything.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but it's sorta "back to square one" for me right now. Although I am HAPPY that that is the case. :)

Regs,
Jeff

Originally posted by Iceblade
... I still have more connections to make so hopefully this weekend I will be able to to post what I think of everything.

Jeff

Take you time. Play with your baby. Read a book -- then let us know how your are feeling. :cool:

Thanks for the reply Jeff, and good luck. Hopefully you'll see significant improvements in PQ, looking forward reading your impressions!

-Greg

Originally posted by htwaits
Take you time. Play with your baby. Read a book -- then let us know how your are feeling. :cool:

LOL!

Will do, Les. On top of playing around with this tv, I've been dealing with the fact that my RCA BLEW UP 2-3 weeks ago. So the Sammy had been getting the lion's share of the viewing. I finally called Samsung to request a service call when I finished watching "Die Another Day" with my parents and family. The clay faces were so bad on that that I thought I would puke. :(

BTW, my Mom could not see rainbows... but my Dad could. He cursed me for a week and a half for pointing out to him what they were. The most often heard quote all week was, "Dammit, Jeff. Now I see those things all the time! Why couldn't you just keep your mouth shut?!?!?" :cool:

Gab atcha later,
Jeff

This is why, Jeff, I refuse to read any threads on spotting rainbows. I figure if I see them eventually on my own, fine, but I am certainly not going to invite dissatisfaction with a TV that is otherwise 110% of what I expected...

Cheers,
RDaneel

Originally posted by Egan
Thanks for the reply Jeff, and good luck. Hopefully you'll see significant improvements in PQ, looking forward reading your impressions!

-Greg

No prob. The one thing I wish I had to truly make a difference would be a DVI DVD player. Unfortunately, I just can't see purchasing the Bravo or Sammy units right now since they don't truly meet my criteria for "one player that does ALL". I'd rather wait a little longer and see what the "big boys" come out with in terms of "universal" players. I want SACD and DVD-A playback on a DVI equipped player. I want it WITHOUT the chroma bug and without any other PQ or AQ issues. Might be a pipe dream, but it seems like it should be any day now that the market gets hit with lots of new DVI players that meet my criteria.

Like I said... give me some time to monkey around and give the new guts a test spin and then I'll be happy to spew some more of my stream of consciousness antics onto the forum. :)

See ya,
Jeff

I am repeating a thought that I posted in June:

A thought -- Rainbows are like a virus spread through this forum. Initially one person stumbled upon the rainbows. He/she posted on this forum what you need to do to see them. Others followed the advice and became experts in seeing rainbows. They described their experience in posts and even more followed suit. And now we have a whole community of trained DLP rainbow seers -- End of thought

And Jeff, you've just joined this community of spreaders. :D

Anyhow, I'm really happy to see that your issues with your set are getting resolved. Good luck and enjoy!!

Originally posted by arungupta
And Jeff, you've just joined this community of spreaders. :D

Anyhow, I'm really happy to see that your issues with your set are getting resolved. Good luck and enjoy!!

Jeff softly hums the Queensryche song "Spreading the Disease" to himself while quickly moving his eyes back and forth across his computer monitor to see if a CRT has "rainbows". :cool:

Thanks, Arun.

"Spreading the disease, everybody needs, but no one wants to seeeeeee."

Later,
Jeff

Jeff, just noticed you've got the new baby, and now your old baby is getting upgraded. Congrats on all babies, old and new!

Originally posted by Doug Deacon
Jeff, just noticed you've got the new baby, and now your old baby is getting upgraded. Congrats on all babies, old and new!

heheh.. thanks, Doug. We got to watch a couple flicks on "Devyn's TV" as I lovingly refer to it. I convinced Wendy to let me buy the tv by saying "it's for the baby". Wendy now says, "Yeah, the tv that you'll never let the baby actually see is 'The Baby's TV". Yeah, right". :)

Regs,
Jeff

I too am leaning toward getting the 617. How can I make sure before completing the purchase that the actual one I buy has the upgrades? Or is it safe to assume that all the old sets have been sold? I'll end up buying from CC, Sound Advice or TV Authority.

First I 'd like to thank you, arungupta, for a excellent guide to Samsung's DLP lineup. It gave just about all of the essential information that I was looking for!

There is one question I have though, was the price of $2500 at PC Richards an advertised one or was did it require bargaining with the sales rep/manager? I find it really hard to believe that price (I live in NYC and the local BestBuy has it for $3200 without haggling). Were there any "conditions"? Thanks again!

Originally posted by Mista_Eng
First I 'd like to thank you, arungupta, for a excellent guide to Samsung's DLP lineup. It gave just about all of the essential information that I was looking for!

There is one question I have though, was the price of $2500 at PC Richards an advertised one or was did it require bargaining with the sales rep/manager? I find it really hard to believe that price (I live in NYC and the local BestBuy has it for $3200 without haggling). Were there any "conditions"? Thanks again!

It wasn't advertised - but wasn't haggling either. I just told the salesperson - over the phone - how much I wanted to pay and he agreed. It did include buying their extended warranty - $395 for 5 years.

This was back in April. Things may have changed.

Originally posted by brick33308
I too am leaning toward getting the 617. How can I make sure before completing the purchase that the actual one I buy has the upgrades? Or is it safe to assume that all the old sets have been sold?

I have had a 617 on order for a month now. The distributor received 10 617s from Samsung in July and I am now #7 in line for the August shipment. I have convinced myself that when I receive it, it will contain the latest upgrades. It would be hard to believe that there are any old sets still around with the high demand for these units. The local CC told me today that they have no units in their warehouse and the local BB gave me the same story. My new TV stand looks very lonely sitting in my basement. :( Anticipation ............

If the HLN617W has the latest firmware loaded, will the specifications be the same as the HLN567W, or will the 567 still have something which is a "technical edge" over the 617??

What is the technical edge?

So far I haven't read of any difference but size and case if HLN sets have the same firmware version. If anyone has information that is different it hasn't made it to the forum.

Originally posted by cmf
Firmware 209 has discrete on/off (verified with my own TV), and I believe 211 does as well. Only 214 and higher (which haven't yet been reported) have discrete inputs, I believe, from what's been said here.


My 437W was delivered this morning from CC and it is version T-B3K5001-214 (Jun 11, 2003). I was able to get into the SM with the Mute-1-8-2-Power sequence, despite some reports of people not being able to do so with recent sets. I haven't tried the discrete codes yet, but I will be trying them out soon. I hope the info is right about the codes being in 214 :).

-Max

Aw, man...I'm so jealous. I am coming up on the 30-day return deadline for CC to take my set back and am considering doing so and then re-ordering to try and get one with 214 in it (mine has 209). I doubt I will, as it's a lot of hassle for just discrete codes (hell, the time involved is prolly worth $200 at least :)). Well, congrats, Max...enjoy the set (we're loving ours!).
- Craig

I am enjoying my HLN4365W but I am in the middle of fooling around with the various ways to connect it to my DrectTivo and Yamaha A/V receiver.
1> How do you hook up component video from the DTV to the Sammy? I have component cables for video and RCA cables for sound yet I can't get any sound. If I turn on the A/V receiver I can get sound through the HT system but I sometimes I just want the basic sound from the TV.
2>Is there any reason to run the Video through the A/V receiver? Why not just run the sound through the receiver and the video directly from the source (DVD or DTV) into the DLP set?

Originally posted by maxcooper
My 437W was delivered this morning from CC and it is version T-B3K5001-214 (Jun 11, 2003). I was able to get into the SM with the Mute-1-8-2-Power sequence, despite some reports of people not being able to do so with recent sets. I haven't tried the discrete codes yet, but I will be trying them out soon. I hope the info is right about the codes being in 214 :).

-Max

Congrats on the set. How long ago did you put in your order with CC? I've got an order in for one of the 437s myself. Just wondering what I'm looking at for time. Thanks.

I have just posted Version 2.0 of the guide. I shall still be tweaking it over the next couple of days - so all inputs are welcome. If if you see any errors of commission or omission, plase post corrections as soon as you can. Thanks.

This guide includes a model/firmware history - currently incomplete. If you see your model/firmware number in it but the info is wrong, please post a correction. If you don't see your model/firmware in it, please post the information and I shall include it in the guide.

Someone asked me to post a list of changes in the guide. This version is an overhaul and the changes are too numerous to list. From this version on, I shall track the changes.

Great work on your new guide version, Arun!

A couple of small items: The new Sammy brochure now lists model numbers for the 467 and 567 stands. They are TR46L5S and TR56L5S respectively. (Para 5. The Stand and Height)

Also, some of the review links are broken. (Para 2. Some Reviews)

Thanks, Spad. I shall update the guide.

Thanks for talking all the time to put together the guide !

Perhaps a small correction on the Firmware table, unless there is a new HLN 407 model... :)

Originally posted by Vermonster
Congrats on the set. How long ago did you put in your order with CC? I've got an order in for one of the 437s myself. Just wondering what I'm looking at for time. Thanks.

I just looked at my receipt, and it says 7/10 -- so a little over two weeks to deliver. They warned that it might be a month when I bought it, and I didn't have my stand ready until Wednesday anyway, so it worked out perfectly for me.

-Max

Originally posted by ride525
Thanks for talking all the time to put together the guide !

Perhaps a small correction on the Firmware table, unless there is a new HLN 407 model... :)
There is only one set made in this size - Samsung made it specially to fit into my bedroom.:D

Thanks for the correction. I just updated the guide with the all the corrections posted so far.

Originally posted by maxcooper
My 437W was delivered this morning from CC and it is version T-B3K5001-214 (Jun 11, 2003). I haven't tried the discrete codes yet, but I will be trying them out soon. I hope the info is right about the codes being in 214 :).

Just reporting back: The discrete input codes work on my new set.

-Max

Originally posted by maxcooper
Just reporting back: The discrete input codes work on my new set.

-Max

That's great!! I shall update the guide to also record the difference between 211 (Power on/off discrete codes only) and 214 (Power on/off and video switching discrete codes).

Question for arun,

So far on every Sammy DLP I've seen on display (CC, BB and 2 locations of SA), they have not been input through their DVI connection, and except for the BB, all of them looked fantastic playing either HD net or an instore loop.

Just curious, could you guess quantitatively how much better they'd look had they been input through DVI - 20% better? 50% better?

Possible firmware/cosmetics revisions to the Guide, based upon my HLN507W (manufactured in April, 2003):

Firmware: T-B3K5001-209 (April 22, 2003).
Cosmetics: Gray cabinet and 1.5" gray bezel.

Originally posted by brick33308
Question for arun,

So far on every Sammy DLP I've seen on display (CC, BB and 2 locations of SA), they have not been input through their DVI connection, and except for the BB, all of them looked fantastic playing either HD net or an instore loop.

Just curious, could you guess quantitatively how much better they'd look had they been input through DVI - 20% better? 50% better?

In my experience, HD over component roughly equals watching SD DVD over DVI. The close ups look good, but the background detail gets lost.

When you first see HD over DVI, which I saw only at home for the first time, it can be quite a pleasant surprise. When I saw superbowl in HD over DVI for example, the detail level was quite astonishing -- blades of grass in the field, sweat beads on players faces, details of the crowd at the stadium. It is as if you are there, but your eyes have gain super vision, and you can see every detail. So it is better than being there.

When you visit the store next time, don't focus on the close ups -- look at the background detail.

I'm not sure how to put it in percentage terms.

Arun, my HLN5065 has arrived. I love it, but apparently will need to order the upgrade for the discreet codes. I noticed this firmware is not in your guide. I don't know what all the stuff in the service menu does, but here's what it says:

1. DDP1010 (ALL)
2. DNIe (ALL)
3. AD9883 (COMPONENT/480P)
4. VPC3230 (RF/VIDEO/480I)
5. JAGADC (PC)
6. FLI2300 (RF/VIDEO/480I)
7. 3D_COMB (ALL)
8. OPTION
T-B3K5001-211
Release Time May 03 2003 13:35:37

Let me know if there's other data you need.

phaseshift, thanks for the info. I shall update the guide with firmware 211 info.

You should already have discrete power on / off codes - please confirm when you have the opportunity. The only item you should gain in the upgrade is -- discrete codes for video switching. Every other item in you set should be the the latest and greatest.

Enjoy your set!!

Magnolia Santa Clara had Samsung DVD with DVI out hooked up to the 437. He showed the difference between DVD with DVI and with component hookup (on another DVD player). DVI did have a little more detail.....

If putting into numbers perhaps a 20% improvment...but I must admit not looking too hard at the differences, was concentrating more on whether to buy set or not...

Originally posted by arungupta
That's great!! I shall update the guide to also record the difference between 211 (Power on/off discrete codes only) and 214 (Power on/off and video switching discrete codes).

Arun,
Firmware 209 *also* has discrete on/off -- I've confirmed this with my own set. Thanks
- Craig

Page 3 of Guide, 4th bullett under "How to Select an HDTV", shouldn't the 1920X720 natural resolution be 1920X1080?

Thanks for the guide,
Dan

Originally posted by arungupta
You should already have discrete power on / off codes - please confirm when you have the opportunity

I don't yet own a third party remote; is there a way I can test this with the standard remote?

Also, what remotes would people recommend? I'll probably check for another thread on that; but thought I'd ask here as well.

One consideration: my Dish Network receiver uses RF rather than infrared. I'd hope to find a remote that could handle both, although my informal browsing at electronics stores has never revealed a remote capable of RF.

Arun,

Thanks for the update to the Guide. The original helped lead me to the HLN467W, which arrived Friday! I'm just getting started with it, have a quick question about DVI cable switching.

I have a 2 m extender cable and two 2 m male to male DVI-D Single Link cables on order from PacificCables.com. (Plan to add a DVI sat box soon). Is it OK to hot-swap these cables without shutting everything down? Not sure if the digital signal requires a shut down before switching or not...

Thanks,
Wayne

Originally posted by phaseshift
I don't yet own a third party remote; is there a way I can test this with the standard remote?

Also, what remotes would people recommend? I'll probably check for another thread on that; but thought I'd ask here as well.

One consideration: my Dish Network receiver uses RF rather than infrared. I'd hope to find a remote that could handle both, although my informal browsing at electronics stores has never revealed a remote capable of RF.

I believe the MX-800 from Universal Remotes (http://www.universalremote.com/) offers both RF and IR capabilities. Many folks here speak highly of this company's products, so you might want to check that out.
- Craig

Is the only difference between the 467 & 437 the size?

That size difference seems small. Any comments!

In a nutshell, with the 467, you get 3" additional screen space (measured diagonally) in a unit about the same physical size as the 437. To me, the aesthetics of the 467 are a tad more attractive than the 437, but not enough to bother me (I have a 437). Plus, the 467 includes discrete remote codes OOTB. HTH.
- Craig

Originally posted by wdarner
Arun,

Thanks for the update to the Guide. The original helped lead me to the HLN467W, which arrived Friday! I'm just getting started with it, have a quick question about DVI cable switching.

I have a 2 m extender cable and two 2 m male to male DVI-D Single Link cables on order from PacificCables.com. (Plan to add a DVI sat box soon). Is it OK to hot-swap these cables without shutting everything down? Not sure if the digital signal requires a shut down before switching or not...

Thanks,
Wayne
I've hot swapped DVI a few dozen times - I hope it is safe. Digital by itself doesn't introduce any factors to make it unsafe. I have hot swapped VGA a few hundred times, and that has never been a problem.

Originally posted by dandd
Page 3 of Guide, 4th bullett under "How to Select an HDTV", shouldn't the 1920X720 natural resolution be 1920X1080?


YES!! How did I miss that! Will correct when I get home this evening. (Right now I am cooling my heels at Toronto airport.)

[Arungupta writes:

I have hot swapped VGA a few hundred times, and that has never been a problem. [/B][/QUOTE]


I assume the Samsung HLN467w has VGA, however I have never seen it in the brochure and in pictures.......I may be wrong though so please let me know! I just got a quote of $2999+125 S&H + 3% (total $3,217.72) from DocDVD who says its from a store called "Image Tek" in Utah. Its a store I can't seem to find any info on nor can I find a website for it. Has anyone
had any dealings with this place, and if so; what was your experience?

[Arungupta writes:

I have hot swapped VGA a few hundred times, and that has never been a problem. [/B][/QUOTE]


I assume the Samsung HLN467w has VGA, however I have never seen it in the brochure and in pictures.......I may be wrong though so please let me know!

Also, I just got a quote of $2999+125 S&H + 3% (total $3,217.72) from DocDVD who says its from a store called "Image Tek" in Utah. Its a store I can't seem to find any info on nor can I find a website for it. Has anyone
had any dealings with this place, and if so; what was your experience?

Originally posted by kmil
I assume the Samsung HLN467w has VGA, however I have never seen it in the brochure and in pictures.......I may be wrong though so please let me know!

All HLN and HLM units have a VGA input port.

I have not hot-swapped VGA on my Samsung. I have been hot-swapping VGA on my computers for 30 years now without any problem. Today for example, I was doing a presentation and I connected/disconnected my laptop to a projector 4 times. Connecting/Disconnecting a DVI port isn't really any different.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by arungupta




[B]All HLN and HLM units have a VGA input port.

Wouldn't we need a VGA OUTPUT port. I don't understand how the VGA would work. Would the VGA port come from a dvd or what? Perhaps from a cable box. Please clarify and show me from the picture of the HLN467w REAR as seen in the brochure as to how the VGA works. What is it connected to? I'm sorry if I'm making this more complex than it need be. I suspect I am :(

- VGA is just another input port like DVI or component. In terms of quality of picture, DVI is the best, VGA is a close second, and Component is much lower down in quality.

- VGA has been used traditionally used to connect computers to monitors

- The primary use of the VGA input port on your Samsung HLN would be connect it to a computer and use your TV as a large monitor. There are many other boxes that output VGA as well -- my HD set top receiver as an example.

In terms of its location, it is located right next to the DVI port on the back of the set.

Originally posted by kmil
[QUOTE]Originally posted by arungupta




[B]All HLN and HLM units have a VGA input port.

Wouldn't we need a VGA OUTPUT port. I don't understand how the VGA would work. Would the VGA port come from a dvd or what? Perhaps from a cable box. Please clarify and show me from the picture of the HLN467w REAR as seen in the brochure as to how the VGA works. What is it connected to? I'm sorry if I'm making this more complex than it need be. I suspect I am :(

Don't sweat it, dude. The VGA INPUT port on the back of the HLM/HLN models is used to connect a laptop or HTPC, most often. You can also connect some STBs such as the RCA DTC100 to this port, as this particular STB only output HD via that particular output jack.

Let us know if you still aren't clear.


DOH! Looks like Arun beat me by a minute in reply. :)

Later,
Jeff

Last time you beat me to it. So now we are even.

How is your new set working out?

Originally posted by arungupta
- VGA is just another input port like DVI or component. In terms of quality of picture, DVI is the best, VGA is a close second, and Component is much lower down in quality.

- VGA has been used traditionally used to connect computers to monitors

- The primary use of the VGA input port on your Samsung HLN would be connect it to a computer and use your TV as a large monitor. There are many other boxes that output VGA as well -- my HD set top receiver as an example.

In terms of its location, it is located right next to the DVI port on the back of the set.

Thanks Arun! Well it won't affect me since I will NOT be hooking a computer to the TV, its TV only! BTW, can you suggest a dealer who would be good to deal with.......you know, the biggest bang for the buck. One who's honest, "cheap" and easy to deal with. I know its a tall order. One guy who posts here regularly quoted a price of slightly over $3200 with everything but I'm nervous about it since I know very little about him! Any advice would be appreciated.

Also, you NEW HLN guide dated, I believe, yesterday is simply OUTSTANDING!!! No question about it.

Question for Iceblade: Now that the guts of your 617 got swapped out, what's your assessment overall?

What is the price difference between the 437 & 467?

Do you think the 467 is worth the difference?

I do not have room for a 507.

And any suggestions for the best online dealer?

Ebay has 4 listed at $2999 plus 145 S&H.

His feedback looks good.

Arun & Co.,

With regards to the new internals, I really haven't had a chance to put them through their paces yet. I did briefly check out HD and SD via DVI, as well as 480i DVD through Component 1. It appears that my horrid banding issues with the 204 board are fairly well attenuated compared to what they were. I still see a fair amount of temporal dithering and motion artifacts and blurring on pans and fast moving action. One thing of note... turn that damn DNIe OFF! It waws set to ON OOTB and I popped in my latest "oh my God, look at all that color banding and clay faces" DVD, "Die Another Day". Woo boy. It looked pretty bad OOTB. Then I turned DNIe off and things got much better.

I had Josh (DocDVD) recalibrate my new board over the phone, but I am not certain that it made as much of a difference this time as it did on the last board. I will be sitting around like everyone else to see what PhilB and KenLand come up with in terms of tweaking the new internals, myself.

For the most part, I'd say I am much closer to the ooh's and ahh's that other people are experiencing with this set.

One thing of note that just leads me to once again believe that I got a alpha or beta test 204 with my HLN. I don't recall seeing any sort of serial number, label, tag or anything on my old 204 board except for the "617-204" written in Sharpie. Contrast that to my new 214 board which has a big professional label with a SKU code and serial numbers and stuff like that along WITH the wonderful Sharpie writing.

Also, one issue I am having that I am wondering if anyone else has seen. I hooked up my TS160 via VGA cable to the HLN617 the other day, post upgrade. I can't seem to center the picture via this connection using a combination of the TS160's raster centering OR the coarse and fine adjust in the tv's PC menu itself. It's driving me NUTS! I wanted to compare the two inputs on the tv to see just how much better DVI is, but without a centered picture, it's just crazy. When I first plug the VGA cable in, I would say that I have about a 10-12 inch black "border" on the right side of the display. Using the raster centering and coarse and fine adjust, I can shrink the border down to about 1-2 inches... still not acceptable. Anyone else see this issue. I will try to hookup the laptop to see if it happens with that as well tonight.

Later,
Jeff, a happier HLN617 owner

I have 204 version board on my 617, and VGA input coming from Samsung T165 shows exact same symptom. I can not center it. I don't use VGA and just connect using DVI.

Makes sense to me.. does anyone with HLN series subscrbe to this also?

If so is it worthy of noting in your guide Arun?




From moto5100 thread:



--------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jaykelly
lovingdvd
I'm unclear as to why you would be switching back and forth between 720p and 1080i. If your display is native 720p, why not leave the moto in 720p?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



My display device has an excellent scaler and deinterlacer which does a much better job than the 5100.

If I leave the 5100 set for 720p, then the 5100 will convert all HDTV content that arrives in 1080i (which of course is everything at this time except ABC and ESPNHD) to 720p. It then delivers 720p to my device which displays it.

On the other hand, if I leave the 5100 on 1080i, then the 5100 does not perform any scaling or deinterlacing on the image. Instead it passes it to my display which then uses its own processing to convert it to 720p. The result is a more detailed and much sharper image.

Now when HD is sent in 720p such as when watching ESPN HD, I need to tell the 5100 to just keep it at 720p. Otherwise it will upconvert it to 1080i making the image soft and losing some detail, only to then have my display device convert it back to 720p which it then is processing a lower quality signal.

So in summary, for me and any one else that has a display device with a native 720p panel, the best picture quality is obtained by setting the 5100 to 1080i for 1080i material, and 720p for 720p material - instead of just leaving it at one setting or another.

As ABC and ESPN HD continue to offer more and more programming, that'll mean I need to keep switching the 5100 between 720p and 1080i as I change channels.
lovingdvd

Originally posted by rkt999
I have 204 version board on my 617, and VGA input coming from Samsung T165 shows exact same symptom. I can not center it. I don't use VGA and just connect using DVI.

Thanks for replaying, rkt999. I had never bothered to hook up the TS160 via VGA before I got my 204 replaced. I wonder what the heck is going on with this issue?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff and rkt999, this problem of VGA centering does not happen when I connect from an HTPC using VGA. I have actually connected at least 5-6 computers to the Samsung using VGA and I have never seen this problem.

So my guess is that somehow related to connecting from T160/T165. I shall try to connect using VGA output from my SIR-TS160 to try and replicate the problem you are seeing.

Can anyone else confirm if you see or don't see this problem when connecting a Samsung T160/165 using VGA.

Originally posted by dwk
Makes sense to me.. does anyone with HLN series subscrbe to this also?

If so is it worthy of noting in your guide Arun?

From moto5100 thread:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jaykelly
lovingdvd
I'm unclear as to why you would be switching back and forth between 720p and 1080i. If your display is native 720p, why not leave the moto in 720p?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My display device has an excellent scaler and deinterlacer which does a much better job than the 5100.

If I leave the 5100 set for 720p, then the 5100 will convert all HDTV content that arrives in 1080i (which of course is everything at this time except ABC and ESPNHD) to 720p. It then delivers 720p to my device which displays it.

On the other hand, if I leave the 5100 on 1080i, then the 5100 does not perform any scaling or deinterlacing on the image. Instead it passes it to my display which then uses its own processing to convert it to 720p. The result is a more detailed and much sharper image.

Now when HD is sent in 720p such as when watching ESPN HD, I need to tell the 5100 to just keep it at 720p. Otherwise it will upconvert it to 1080i making the image soft and losing some detail, only to then have my display device convert it back to 720p which it then is processing a lower quality signal.

So in summary, for me and any one else that has a display device with a native 720p panel, the best picture quality is obtained by setting the 5100 to 1080i for 1080i material, and 720p for 720p material - instead of just leaving it at one setting or another.

As ABC and ESPN HD continue to offer more and more programming, that'll mean I need to keep switching the 5100 between 720p and 1080i as I change channels.
lovingdvd
This is an excellent observation. I shall expand the section in the guide on how to connect to get the best PQ - and include lovingdvd's experience in it.

I should receive my HLN617W from Josh at DocDVD in a week or two. I also plan to connect my TS160 via VGA and am purchasing a Tributaries cable from Josh to do so, since I plan to connect my DVD-HD931 to the DVI input on the 617. I hope I don't experience the centering problem you're describing with the VGA hook-up, but I'll post my findings as soon as I have a chance to set everything up.

kenmp

Arun, is there any chance of getting the file in the ZIP in a different format? The current .doc does not display well with OpenOffice.org 1.1 -- multiple sections are misformatted. A PDF (shudder) would be better, or HTML, or some kind of open standard.

Also, I didn't see the discrete codes listed in there anywhere... you might want to add them.

HLN467 being delivered tomorrow morning! Woohoo.

Zathrus, let us know how do you like it (or not). I'm still on the fence between getting HLN567 now or GWIII 60" later this year

Zathrus, in the first post in the thread, I have included a link to MS Word viewer, a free program from Microsoft for viewing word documents.

I will add the discrete codes in the guide.

Good luck with your new set!

I am on the verge of purchasing an HLN617W and was wondering if anyone has tried using 2 xbox's on it. My roommate and I would like to be able to play games at the same time using the split screen mode.

^^^^^
I just answered this question in the HT Gaming Forum, but here's the link to the intitial discussion about this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=273722

Everything I read says that the HLN507W is the latest DLP from Samsung but when I go to their web site it shows the HLM507W as the 2nd generation set.......please advise...!! thank you.

i figured it out....samsung.com is not correct site....samsungusa.com is correct and shows HLN507W as new set...whew!

From the guide
If you must use a DVD player with component out, use a non-progressive player instead of a progressive one - this is because the TV has superior de-interlacing/scaling circuitry compared to the DVD player. Connect it to Component 1 Input -- It is the only component input that accepts 480i/480p signals.

The guide suggests using a non-progressive DVD player if DVI not available, since the TV has superior de-interlacing/scaling circuitry. I think my several year-old Pioneer 525 qualifies. :)

Question: Is this circuitry always enabled, ie there is no menu selection to turn it off and on?

Thanks for your help,

Jeff

Originally posted by ride525
Question: Is this circuitry always enabled, ie there is no menu selection to turn it off and on?

This would have to be an option on the DVD player -- either a switch or a set up option. If you don't see it, that means that the player doesn't give you a choice.

I figured my DVD player didn't have it...

Just wondered how the Samsung DLP worked. Is the circuitry always enabled, or is there a menu option somewhere?

Thanks for your fast response...

:)

Jeff

Enabled. Just plug her into the components and let 'er rip.

What about using the good panny progressive DVD player's (RP82 & 72's)? Should I plan on using my 72 in progressive mode on a Sammy DLP or do I leave it in interlaced?

Originally posted by Djayswain
What about using the good panny progressive DVD player's (RP82 & 72's)? Should I plan on using my 72 in progressive mode on a Sammy DLP or do I leave it in interlaced?

Try both to see which you like best. DVD through DVI is supposed to be better than either one.

If you've spent $3,000 plus for the Sammy DLP, I don't know why you wouldn't spend another $200 to $300 for the Bravo or Sammy DVD player with DVI.

DVI is such a vast improvement over component that failure to take advantage of the Sammy DVI is a case of being penny wise and pound foolish.

If you've spent $3,000 plus for the Sammy DLP, I don't know why you wouldn't spend another $200 to $300 for the Bravo or Sammy DVD player with DVI.
Well, because they all have rather serious deficiencies right now (the Samsung is useless for 4:3 material, the Bravo locks up on numerous disks, the Momitsu locks up and has nearly zero support in the US), none are changers (have a kid on the way... a changer is useful), none have discrete codes, and because there's only one DVI port which may be put to better use with a HDTV decoder or HTPC.

Zathrus,

I want to understand the comment about using the Samsung DVD player with 4:3 material. What exactly are you saying - that if you put in a older DVD with 4:3 material it just doesn't play?

I'm new at this and am trying to understand. Thanks.

brick,

Nope, the 931 has a nasty "always stretches the sucker to wide mode" bug with regards to 4:3 content DVDs. It is not defeatable and is a highly agitating bug to most users who's DVD collections contain more than the latest anamorphic 16:9 a/r movies and such.

Let us know if you need more info.

Later,
Jeff

Note this 4:3 bug is only on the DVI Port. If you use component or even svideo you will be fine. Of course, the whole point of a DLP and a 931 combo is to use DVI, which is why it's so infuriating... If I had the combo, I'd personally have both DVI and component hooked up and switch to component for 4:3 discs. I am opting for a Bravo and hoping I don't get one that locks up incessantly.

Those are all valid points, but you could certainly make the same argument as to why one should not buy the Sammy DLP in the first place -- it is far from a perfect TV (lack of discrete codes, one DVI input, poor QC on the lamps, etc.), but we all must have been willing to overlook its problems in exchange for the amazing picture. I'm just saying if you want the best DVD PQ today, why not spring for a DVI DVD player?

I have the Sammy 931 DVD player, and while it is certainly flawed in the areas you mention (it also has one of the longest response times of any player I've ever seen); nonetheless, I'm willing to overlook these deficiencies to be able to enjoy the amazing PQ today.

Besides, for $60, Ultimate Electronics offers a service whereby I can exchange the Sammy 931 for a better player in 2 years with full credit for the $299 purchase price. By then, Ultimate Electronics will hopefully still be in business and someone will have perfected a DVI DVD player.

Glad to know that. Are there any other DVD players on the market with DVI that don't have the problems of the Bravo or Sammy - either out now or suppposed to be coming out soon? I've got time because I'm not ordering my new HD set until HD Tivo comes out (probably January).

Originally posted by brick33308
I want to understand the comment about using the Samsung DVD player with 4:3 material. What exactly are you saying - that if you put in a older DVD with 4:3 material it just doesn't play?

The problem is that the Samsung 931 defaults to some form of "wide" for any DVI output. What ever it's doing causes the "normal" setting on the Samsung DLP sets to be deactivated. With wide a 1.33:1 movie like Singin' In The Rain will be stretched to fill the 16x9 screen instead of displaying in 4X3 (1.33:1) which is it's "normal" aspect ratio. In the case of this particular movie it causes Debbie Reynolds to put about 40lbs extra on her tiny frame.

It's what some would call a "dudder head" default.

The same people at Samsung were probably responsible for the original HLM sets defaulting to "wide" whenever input sources were changes. :mad:

Samsung seems to revert to catering to the group that gets upset anytime the full screen is not flashing images regardless of the distortion involved. Some how black bars cheat this group out of some portion of what they feel they have paid good money for.

Originally posted by brick33308
Glad to know that. Are there any other DVD players on the market with DVI that don't have the problems of the Bravo or Sammy - either out now or suppposed to be coming out soon? I've got time because I'm not ordering my new HD set until HD Tivo comes out (probably January).
There "should" be several by then. :D

Can anyone tell me what is the difference between HNL437 and 4365, or HNL507 and 5065?

The DVI output from the Samsung DVD HD931 is only 16x9. If you wish to watch a 4x3 DVD simply switch to the component output. Why anyone would want to watch 4x3 component after seeing the 16x9 DVI is beyond me.

Pete

Umm.. because it stretches the picture and makes people short and fat?

That would be a deal breaker for me, to not be able to control my own aspect ratios when watching X-Files, Stargate SG-1, or old movies that are 4x3.

Some people might like it or be able to live with it, but having *less* choice instead of *more* choice limits their market for those of us that want to see things as they were intended. If they gave the option of stretching to 16x9 *or* keeping it 4x3, then it would satisfy *both* types of people. Perhaps it was an oversight on their part. I would expect it not to be the case for long.

Just a lillte more info, nothing important it looks like they updated the remote on the new 46 and 56 models also.

Not that many still use the one it comes with :)

pics here, and there in stock?

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-zD6hhNoL75l/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=6&g=128000&I=305HLN567W&o=m&a=0&cc=01&avf=N

Originally posted by ender21


That would be a deal breaker for me, to not be able to control my own aspect ratios when watching X-Files, Stargate SG-1, or old movies that are 4x3.




Stargate SG-1 DVD's are 16x9 enhanced for widescreen fyi.

Originally posted by Egan
Stargate SG-1 DVD's are 16x9 enhanced for widescreen fyi.

Yeah you're right. My mistake!

Originally posted by chahm
Can anyone tell me what is the difference between HNL437 and 4365, or HNL507 and 5065?

The HLN4365/5065 have a silver bezel. The HLN437/507 have a charcoal bezel. That it. No other differences.

FWIW Got the new 214 board installed last night. HLN617W. The tech obviously knew what he was doing.

Arun,

For possible inclusion in your fab guide, the tech asked how long we keep it on at a time, I said 3 hours. He said that should be OK, but if we keep it on 4-5 hours or more at a time, we should place a small fan blowing toward the lower rear vent to help airflow. The heat that builds up is incredible and could cause lamp failure.

I also asked about reliability of RPTV in general. He said they are experiencing most problems with Sony, Toshiba, and RCA, none with Samsung.

As for extended warranties he said they have the least claim denials with a company called NEW(?). Anyone heard of that one?

I'm just glad I've got discretes now!

dwk, thanks for the update on your upgrade. I shall include a note in the guide emphasizing good ventilation of rear vents.

Originally posted by Zathrus
, the Bravo locks up on numerous disks

My two cents:
I have not experienced one lockup on the Bravo connected to my Sammy HLN507W, and I have viewed about 60 disks since May. Most are store bought, some are burned on DVD+R and I even got the Matrix trailer burned on a DVD+RW encoded at 720 and 1080 and it plays fine despite the fact that DVD+RW is documented not to be supported on the Bravo.
I understand that many have seen lockups on their systems, but in another thread, it was suggested to get a DVD lens cleaner (disk with a little 1/4 inch brush on the bottom side of the disk) and many lockups have disappeared. I can also utilize the zoom functions on the Bravo and stretch any 4:3 content and still retain an incredible picture quality. For 200 bucks, I felt like I stole the Bravo when I saw what it can produce.

Don't forget: the HLN437/507 proudly proclaim they include Faroudja processing. The HLN4365/5065 have Faroudja processing, but are keeping silent about it.


Originally posted by htwaits
The HLN4365/5065 have a silver bezel. The HLN437/507 have a charcoal bezel. That it. No other differences.

Originally posted by dwk
the tech asked how long we keep it on at a time, I said 3 hours. He said that should be OK, but if we keep it on 4-5 hours or more at a time, we should place a small fan blowing toward the lower rear vent to help airflow. The heat that builds up is incredible and could cause lamp failure.
This sucks. Nowhere in the manual does it even hint at that. What about those of us who cannot accomodate such a small fan in their setup because there is no room for it? Are we increasing the possibility of lamp failure every time we leave the set on for 5 hours? If this is so, then the set is inadequately designed. It should be able to protect itself fully even if left on for 12 hours (at least).

Maurice2

Keep in mind this is one techs opinion, although if you feel the heat generated by the vent it does make sense.


Although, with the overhang of the upper body of the set, it seems there would be a clear spot to place a small fan?? (I am looking at the 617)

Originally posted by dwk
Although, with the overhang of the upper body of the set, it seems there would be a clear spot to place a small fan?? (I am looking at the 617)
Are those intake or exhaust vents? If the set is exhausting through those vents wouldn't you want the fan pulling air out instead of pushing air in?

Is it time to start installing case fans in our TV sets? Could be. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Maurice2
[B]This sucks. Nowhere in the manual does it even hint at that. What about those of us who cannot accomodate such a small fan in their setup because there is no room for it? Are we increasing the possibility of lamp failure every time we leave the set on for 5 hours?



Does the above potential heat problem apply to the HLN467w also?

Wouldn't a fan blowing into the vent possibly cause an increase buildup of dust on the internal components? Seems like one may alleviate somewhat one problem, but create more problems with dust on the lens and such.

Oh good grief. Now we're worrying about heat build-up?!? Gimme a break. It's only a 100W bulb, folks (or 120W in the case of the monstrous 617).

I don't think the issue is so much about adding additional fans but about making sure that the existing fan vent is not somehow blocked so that there is inadequate heat dissipation.

So long as there is some space on the back for the hot air to escape, I wouldn't worry about it.

Originally posted by cmf
Oh good grief. Now we're worrying about heat build-up?!? Gimme a break. It's only a 100W bulb, folks (or 120W in the case of the monstrous 617).
I agree with the earlier post that this is one tech's opinion.

I have a 617 in a cabinet with no ventilation in the back. In 7 months of usage, I haven't seen any problems. I shall measure the temp in the back to see what's happening.

Arun, thanks for the guide. Great job and a lot of hard work.

Can you help with this thread and maybe add the info to your guide? postid=2492060 [it wouldn't let me post the link b/c I'm new] (seeking depth measurement of the pedestal for purposes of choosing a stand).

You may also want to add a measurment of the top for purposes of choosing a center channel that may go there.

Also a couple of questions:

1. When does the tv know to use its own scaler and/or interlacer/deinterlacer? I've read that an interlaced signal is better than a progressive signal for this set b/c its circutry is better than that of most dvd players. The set converts everything to 720p, right? And does a great job according to all reports, right? But then you suggest an HTPC or DVD w/DVI out as the best choice for DVD playback. Failing that a non-progressive dvd player, right? I'm confused. Does a DVI input from an HTPC or DVD player mean that you are not using the set's expensive (and presumably good) video processing circuitry? Does that mean you then need to spend a bunch more money ensuring that your HTPC or DVD player has excellant video processing capability?

2. Is the dvd output from an X-Box (my current dvd player) 480i? Therefore, would this be a good DVD player with the Samsung? Would anything with DVI be better than the x-box PQ?

I'll throw in my $0.02 that it's also just one tech's opinion and further add that the sets already do have temperature sensors built-in whose purpose is supposed to be preventing the set from overheating (by automatically turning the set off if it detects a problem). IMHO, I highly doubt that Samsung would allow the set to get hot enough to lead to premature lamp failure but not consider that an overheating situation.

Sopranos helps HDTV and Samsung

We had a guest visiting us today - an ardent Sopranos fan. He saw the Sopranos DVD's at our house, and decided to catch up on a couple of first season shows. He COULD NOT believe the picture quality of the DVD (watched through an HTPC with a DVI connection.) He said that there is no way he'll ever be able to watch Sopranos again on his regular TV with an SD connection.

An HDTV / Samsung DLP convert - courtesy of Sopranos.

Originally posted by Googer
I'll throw in my $0.02 that it's also just one tech's opinion and further add that the sets already do have temperature sensors built-in whose purpose is supposed to be preventing the set from overheating (by automatically turning the set off if it detects a problem). IMHO, I highly doubt that Samsung would allow the set to get hot enough to lead to premature lamp failure but not consider that an overheating situation.

I experienced this a few days ago, when we had a momentary power brownout while the TV was on. The power didn't even go out long enough for the clocks on the various components to reset, but the 5065 did shut down. My wife called me to tell me the TV was acting funny (uh oh!), and she couldn't turn it back on. It had to cool down for an hour before it allowed me to power it up again, and luckily the lamp was still working.

Oh, after the brownout, the top and center LEDs were flashing green, and the lower LED was flashing red (indicating an overheating problem, according to the manual).

Dave.

Thanks again for you guide, I think I may have another small correction in the PIP section.

PIP can be either side by side, or in a PIP window in the bottom right corner in multiple sizes.

When in "Large" or "Small" PIP mode you can use the "Locate" button to move the picture around the four corners of the screen.

Jeff

Hi arun. thanks for the guide. From my reading of the N series tweaks thread it might be safe to add that black level and brightness can be enhanced and balanced through changes to Gamma - anything but 3 - and Y offset in the component menu, from 60 to anywhere between 50-53.

I made some additional tweaks to get the red out of peoples faces.
cr_gain from 150 -> 153
cr_offset from 58 -> 60
cb_gain from 150 ->147
cb_offset from 58-> 57

Thanks. I shall add these to the guide. Does anyone else any other recommendations for the service menu?

PIP can be either side by side, or in a PIP window in the bottom right corner in multiple sizes. DVI, VGA and Component inputs can only be used as the main image; they cannot appear side by side or in the PIP window. Antenna/RF-A or Composite/S-Video sources can be used side by side or in the PIP window

Component 1 inputs can appear side by side as long as it is 480i and not 480p. As long as both signals are non-progressive, it can appear side-by-side.

Also, you can state that with the Xbox, the colors are sharper/brighter if you use the Xbox High Definition AV Pack connected to Component 2 or 3, but it is also appears jagged. If I use the Xbox Advanced AV Pack connected to an S-Video input, the colors seem a little faded, but the jaggies disappear because of the Faroudja chip.

Also, if the Xbox is modded (modified with a chip), then the dashboard using Evolution X (or similar) is at 480p so no problems in using Component 2 or 3.

Updated the guide to Version 2.1:

- Corrections, additions to firmware table, new section on connection resolution, more info on Xbox usage.

"Also, you can state that with the Xbox, the colors are sharper/brighter if you use the Xbox High Definition AV Pack connected to Component 2 or 3, but it is also appears jagged."

This was the first I've heard someone mention this w/ the Sammy DLPs. What games are you playing? I play mostly Ghost Recon (480p), and I've played the Matrix (HD) and the new Star Wars game (480p), and haven't noticed any jaggies. XBox is set to 480p/720p/1080i Widescreen, and I'm using the Monster Component cables.

Arun (or anyone),
Is the overall height of the HLN617 41.2" (as in the Samsung brochure) or actually 40.2"?
Thanks,
nhb007

Originally posted by nhb007
Arun (or anyone),
Is the overall height of the HLN617 41.2" (as in the Samsung brochure) or actually 40.2"?
Thanks,
nhb007

Just ran upstairs and measured it for you. It's roughly 40 1/8". That seems to work out to 40.125" in my brain, but whatever. Let's just call it the 40" one, not the 41" one.

Hope that helps,
Jeff

PS - FWIW, mine has a build date of April 2003.

Googer,

You are correct. There seems to be a lot of confusion here on the whole question of lamp behavior/reliability etc. I intend to write a Statistics tome to help to make this topic more intuitive here. Users simply must understand that these hand full of anecdotal stories about lamps, shed little light on the question of lamp reliability. A little common sens should suggest to all of us that if a TV manufacturer rates the lamp at 8000 hrs, the EVENT, DEATH BEFORE 8000 HRS has nececessarily to be a rare event. Consider this, for example, if this 8000 hr represents the mean(median) life of the lamps, then one knows before the fact that half will die before the 8000 hrs and will have to be covered by the warranty. At greater than $200 per pop this represents a very large potential liability to a manufacturer. How does one insure that the 8000 hour event is rare? One does this by requiring that( <X> - 8000) > 3*Sigma. This is just plain common sense. In my statistics simulation to come, I will do a virtual build of large numbers of lamps coming from a fixed distribution.
As to the behavior of a very hot convectively cooled lamp after a sudden power failure; when the fans stop, the temperature of the lamp/housing initially rises to an unacceptably high level because there is no efficient means to dissipate the heat without the fans. Now with a much longer time constant, the lamp/housing will cool to room temperature. My guess is that when you turn the set off normally, the fans continue to run until the housing cools to an acceptably low temperature. BTW, arc lamps won't even start up when they are already hot.

Regards,

john stephens

Another thread on this topic prompted me to add this section to the guide.
Samsung DLP Cooling Fan Noise? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=266567)

I am posting this section here first and then I shall add it to the guide in the next revision.

TV Noise
The TV has two potential sources of noise - the cooling fan and the color wheel. My experience and that of many others is that the noise level is generally lower than PC's or PVR devices. I cannot hear the color wheel unless I put my ear to the chassis. The cooling fan is on only intermittently, and even when it is on its noise level is not especially audible or distracting to me. However, if your room temperature is hot, then the fan may be on more frequently, and it could become a distraction for some people. There are isolated posts from members where the noise level appears to be excessive - we don't know yet if it is the set or the setup that is causing it to happen.

I am looking for feedback on this topic - especially if your experience leads you to believe that I should revise this secton.

I'm embarrassed to say that in the one month that we've owned the set, we've managed to put 160 hours on it. Oh, well, at least it's getting used!

In those 160 hours, we've watched all kinds of content at all times of day and night and we've never once noticed fan or CW noise. Granted, our HLN437 is in a closed armoir (photo: http://www.gearbits.com/images/armoir.html) and we sit about 15 feet from it, so we're not the most likely folks to be bothered by unit noise.

Also, as a side-note, reading all the posts here about the Sammy DLP's has lead me to one conclusion: either I'm very lucky or very undiscriminating (or both), for I've made minimal changes to the picture settings and am constantly giggling inside over how beautiful the set looks on just about everything I throw at it.

I also have no complaints with noise from my HLN617. Only way I can hear anything is to kneel down behind it to listen, even then its a stretch.

No noise here, Arun. Quite happy with the sonic performance of my 507.

Cheers,
RDaneel

Thanks for the measurement, Jeff. Know what folks? Arun's guide is more accurate than the official Sammy docs!
Cheers,
nhb007

I just hooked up my COMCAST HD box to comp2 inputs -- should I configure the cable box to output 1080i or 720p?

If I go with 720p it seems the cable box is downscaling HD content.

If I go with 1080i does the Samsung downscale to 720p?

I can't detect a difference either way.

Thanks,
Mike

One more question.

When running PIP between SVid1 and TV I am able to use split screen.

WHen running PIP between a signal on my component input and TV I am only able to use PIP modes that have the traditional small PIP -- no split screen.

Is this normal?

THanks,
Mike

That PIP behavior is normal.

I've heard it recommend that you should set the box to 720P for shows that are in 720P (like ABC I believe), and 1080i for channels that broadcast in 1080i. This way you always let your TV do the scaling.

Or just go with what looks best!

Originally posted by TheKog
I just hooked up my COMCAST HD box to comp2 inputs -- should I configure the cable box to output 1080i or 720p?


It could be placebo effect, but I found that when viewing a 1080i station, it looks better on the Sammy DLP if I have the Comcast box in 1080i mode. Probably the better scaling due to Faroudja. I switch to 720p when I'm watching ABC.

Incidently, my Comcast box (Motorola, I don't recall the model # and i'm not home now) has a DVI jack, but when I hook it up to the TV, I get nothing. Does the cable company have to do something to enable the jack?

Arun,

Downloading the Guide Doc still indicates version 1.5?

STR3T, that's probably your browser playing tricks - and bringing up a version that you may have downloaded a while ago. Save the guide onto your hard drive, and then open it.

Originally posted by phaseshift

Incidently, my Comcast box (Motorola, I don't recall the model # and i'm not home now) has a DVI jack, but when I hook it up to the TV, I get nothing. Does the cable company have to do something to enable the jack?

I was told by Comcast (here in SF) that DVI is not supported..neither is the USB port.

Originally posted by et415
I was told by Comcast (here in SF) that DVI is not supported..neither is the USB port.

Yet another reason why I'm dumping Crimecast just as soon as the new HD Tivo/direcTV combo unit comes out. I am fed up with their poor signal in my neighborhood, not to mention the fact they told me they won't have HD in my county for at least another year.

Originally posted by arungupta
This would have to be an option on the DVD player -- either a switch or a set up option. If you don't see it, that means that the player doesn't give you a choice.

Can I ask a clarifying question?

If I connect my PC to the Sammy DLP via DVI, then is the PC's DVD player sending a progressive or interlaced signal? You've mentioned in the past that a DVI-enabled PC's DVD player offers the best PQ, so I was just wondering since I'm not aware of any switch or setup option for the PC's DVD player.

The PC DVD player is sending a progressive and scaled signal.

This thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2509917#post2509917) prompted me to this observation.

After reading hundreds of post from Samsung DLP owners talking about their PQ, I've come to this observation - the owners PQ experience can be largely divided into two groups, the DVI group and the Analog group:

DVI group has connected all their important inputs via DVI or VGA (STB, DVD, PC) and then they just sit back and express delight at the phenomenal picture quality. They do very little tweaking. Of course, they maybe doing a lot of cable switching instead.

Analog group is unable to connect the important inputs via DVI for various reasons. They have a long list of PQ issues - clay faces, color banding, black levels, motion artifacts and so on, and are continually tweaking the picture to get to a satisfactory result.

Some people are in the Analog group only temporarily because of necessity (e.g. their cable box doesn't support DVI yet.). Others are there because they don't know any better - or they are not convinced of the difference that DVI brings.

Can anyone comment on the affects of toddler fingerprints on the DLP screen? Are the screens easy to clean or do they tend to stain the way laptop screen do?

Originally posted by arungupta
This thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2509917#post2509917) prompted me to this observation.

After reading hundreds of post from Samsung DLP owners talking about their PQ, I've come to this observation - the owners PQ experience can be largely divided into two groups, the DVI group and the Analog group:

DVI group has connected all their important inputs via DVI or VGA (STB, DVD, PC) and then they just sit back and express delight at the phenomenal picture quality. They do very little tweaking. Of course, they maybe doing a lot of cable switching instead.

Analog group is unable to connect the important inputs via DVI for various reasons. They have a long list of PQ issues - clay faces, color banding, black levels, motion artifacts and so on, and are continually tweaking the picture to get to a satisfactory result.

Some people are in the Analog group only temporarily because of necessity (e.g. their cable box doesn't support DVI yet.). Others are there because they don't know any better - or they are not convinced of the difference that DVI brings.

Just wanted to highlight this point, being a new owner of a 507. I received the TV a week before I got my HTPC up and running. Watched several DVDs with an APEX 660 using S-Video, PQ was noticeably poor when watching dark scenes with subtle contrast. When I received my DVI cable and watched using the HTPC (Power DVD), the picture was very well defined and clean (even the VGA looked very good).

It's difficult to watch "analog" TV through my DirecTv receiver knowing the true capabilities of this TV. The next DirecTv receiver I get will have HD and DVI!

Originally posted by arungupta
This thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2509917#post2509917) prompted me to this observation.

After reading hundreds of post from Samsung DLP owners talking about their PQ, I've come to this observation - the owners PQ experience can be largely divided into two groups, the DVI group and the Analog group:

DVI group has connected all their important inputs via DVI or VGA (STB, DVD, PC) and then they just sit back and express delight at the phenomenal picture quality. They do very little tweaking. Of course, they maybe doing a lot of cable switching instead.

Analog group is unable to connect the important inputs via DVI for various reasons. They have a long list of PQ issues - clay faces, color banding, black levels, motion artifacts and so on, and are continually tweaking the picture to get to a satisfactory result.

Some people are in the Analog group only temporarily because of necessity (e.g. their cable box doesn't support DVI yet.). Others are there because they don't know any better - or they are not convinced of the difference that DVI brings.

As usual, you're dead on with your observations, Arun. Even though I only have a few hours on the 567, I can already attest to the accuracy of your views.

The performance of the 567/Bravo D1 combination far exceeded my expectations. But my other primary sources--a Sony SAT D-60 D*TV/Tivo receiver and a Pioneer laserdisc player--are limited to S-video. As expected, the D*TV performance varies drastically from channel to channel with some being surprisingly good while others are practically unwatchable. I'll be adding a VGA input from a Macintosh as soon as the cable arrives later this week. Let's hope the upcoming HD D*TV/Tivo receivers are released soon.

BTW, I've been unable to spot the slightest hint of reflections under any circumstances and regardless of lighting conditions.

It's difficult to watch "analog" TV through my DirecTv receiver knowing the true capabilities of this TV. The next DirecTv receiver I get will have HD and DVI! [/B][/QUOTE]

Here's my question: I don't even have my HLN467W yet and will get the Bravo D1, so if I reserve the DVI for and STB can I, or how can I use VGA from the B1 into the HLN ? How easy might it be and how much less than "100% DVI PQ" would it be with the VGA (assuming I can do it)?

Originally posted by kmil

Here's my question: I don't even have my HLN467W yet and will get the Bravo D1, so if I reserve the DVI for and STB can I, or how can I use VGA from the B1 into the HLN ? How easy might it be and how much less than "100% DVI PQ" would it be with the VGA (assuming I can do it)?

I went the HTPC approach for DVD viewing, I plan on moving that to VGA when I get a DVI enabled receiver. The HTPC is nice for viewing digital pictures, playing PC games, and watching other types of video, such as DiviX encoded movies from files.

If the device you want to connect to the VGA port has a DVI-I (both analog and digital) port there is a dongle that comes with DVI video cards that allows you to connect the DVI port to the VGA port. I found that the VGA PQ was very similar to the DVI PQ using my HTPC.

Press release from TI on DLP success:

Texas Instruments Announces Shipment of 2,000,000th DLP(TM) Subsystem; Customers' Products 'Achieving Enormous Popularity' in the Marketplace (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030805/datu008_1.html)

Can anyone comment on the affects of toddler fingerprints on the DLP screen? Are the screens easy to clean or do they tend to stain the way laptop screen do?
Yup, this page (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?s=) will answer that question, more or less. :)

Actually, more specifically, it'll lead you to this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=282923).

-Steve

Arun,

Just a quick thanks for your HLN and DVI guides. They played a big part in my decision to buy an HLN567, which is now sitting in my home theater.

Best...

Greg.

You're welcome, Greg. Enjoy your TV and share your experiences with us.

Arun - do you or anyone else have a table of default SM values? I neglected to jot them down before I began playing, and now that PhilB's numbers have turned out to be a disaster for my 211 set, I would love to normalize some of the settings. Any idea where to look for these numbers?

Thanks!
RDaneel

Now that the "new toy" luster has worn off a bit, I've discovered that on 4:3 material my 567 has a bit of what would probably be called pin cushion distortion on a CRT. The edges bend slightly inward and then flair slightly outward beginning about five inches from the bottom. The total deviation is about half an inch. As I recall, this symptom usually indicates low PS voltage in a CRT display, but I can't imagine what would cause it in a DLP other than a warped mirror or screen.

Is this common on DLPs? The picture otherwise is fine and I could easily live with the problem if it doesn't get worse. But I wonder if a wiser move might be to exchange the set.

Any advise would be much appreciated.

Spad

Originally posted by RDaneel
Arun - do you or anyone else have a table of default SM values? I neglected to jot them down before I began playing, and now that PhilB's numbers have turned out to be a disaster for my 211 set, I would love to normalize some of the settings. Any idea where to look for these numbers?

Thanks!
RDaneel
PhilB and co. have done excellent work, posted in this thread: Calibration results for HLM507 with new digital board (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=286465). But its on an HLM set, even though they have upgraded the electronics. Thats why I haven't posted those results in the guide because I am not sure if they are applicable. I wish someone would do the same for an HLN set.

I can post numbers for the 2 sets I have - but they may not be applicable to you because they are from much older manufacturing batches. Maybe if you post a specific request for a model/date of manufacture, someone can post it here.

Originally posted by Spad
Now that the "new toy" luster has worn off a bit, I've discovered that on 4:3 material my 567 has a bit of what would probably be called pin cushion distortion on a CRT. The edges bend slightly inward and then flair slightly outward beginning about five inches from the bottom. The total deviation is about half an inch. As I recall, this symptom usually indicates low PS voltage in a CRT display, but I can't imagine what would cause it in a DLP other than a warped mirror or screen.

Is this common on DLPs? The picture otherwise is fine and I could easily live with the problem if it doesn't get worse. But I wonder if a wiser move might be to exchange the set.

Any advise would be much appreciated.

Spad
I had added a small section on pincushion in the latest version of the guide - under "problems and pet peeves" area. All of these sets have a slight yet noticeable pincushion. It is caused by the optics of the set. I actually measured it on my 61" set recently using a straight edge and a ruler. Its about 3/16 inch inward indentation on my set when watching 4:3 material. I have never found it to intrude in actually watching of the program.

This type of pincushion seems to be common to sets of this class - e. g. Sony GWII also has one.

Arun, it's no big deal, but the default values I was looking for are for the 211 firmware HLN507. The problem is that PhilB's numbers on his upgraded 214 board look TERRIBLE on my set. They are obviously based on a different setup, because plain whites were purple! I went back to an older set of values and got things mostly back to normal, but it was a frusterating experience to think I was holding the magic answer only to have my hopes dashed!

I may have to put in a service call anyway, because the set has started to choke on startup after I had a power failure the other day... maybe I'd end up with a 214 board!

Thanks,
Richard

Ditto on Arun's answer to the pincushion question. My HLM437W (Aug '02) has always had this "feature".

There was a lot of discussion about this last year and the concensus was that it's a non-tweakable function of the optics and/or a slight bowing of the screen. You can increase it by pushing the center of your screen in gently with a finger. You could presumably decrease it by sticking a suction cup or a wad of chewing gum to the center of the screen and pulling gently outward. I haven't tried this, if you do please post your results!

Not much we can do about it. :(

Thanks, Arun and Doug, for the pincushion info. I'm actually relieved since the problem isn't at all serious and I don't have to go through the hassle of exchanging the set.

Doug, one more question if I may: How can I get this damned bubble gum off my screen? :p

Doug, one more question if I may: How can I get this damned bubble gum off my screen? Just let me walk on your TV. The stuff always seems to stick to my shoes better than whatever it was stuck to before!

Arun,

Thanks for all the comprehensive info!

I'm curious how the dvi switch (omni-switch, was it?) that you're trying out is working for you?

I'm one of the dvi cable switchers between the samsung ts-160 and the bravo d1 dvd player to achieve the best PQ possible whether viewing direcTV or dvd's.
I've been trying to research a good dvi switch to switch between tv and dvd, but I can't justify the price for it now, when all I have to do is switch cables.

thanks for any further info you find out on these dvi switches!

Dave

Originally posted by holemania
Arun,

Thanks for all the comprehensive info!

I'm curious how the dvi switch (omni-switch, was it?) that you're trying out is working for you?

I'm one of the dvi cable switchers between the samsung ts-160 and the bravo d1 dvd player to achieve the best PQ possible whether viewing direcTV or dvd's.
I've been trying to research a good dvi switch to switch between tv and dvd, but I can't justify the price for it now, when all I have to do is switch cables.

thanks for any further info you find out on these dvi switches!

Dave

My possible "solution" is so "simple" I'm sure its been thought of and discarded as technically not feasible. Why not a SIMPLE Y SPLITTER coming out of, say the TV..........one IN and cord about 1 foot long with TWO DVI outputs (or inputs) right there???? Please tell me why this might not work.

Originally posted by kmil
My possible "solution" is so "simple" I'm sure its been thought of and discarded as technically not feasible. Why not a SIMPLE Y SPLITTER coming out of, say the TV..........one IN and cord about 1 foot long with TWO DVI outputs (or inputs) right there???? Please tell me why this might not work.

Isn't this what Arun previously suggested as an interim solution?

I am also curious if you can 'Y' a DVI signal to two inputs. I want to split a DVI signal to two TV's in separate rooms.


We are all anxiously awaiting Aruns test on the dvi switch!

Originally posted by kmil
My possible "solution" is so "simple" I'm sure its been thought of and discarded as technically not feasible. Why not a SIMPLE Y SPLITTER coming out of, say the TV..........one IN and cord about 1 foot long with TWO DVI outputs (or inputs) right there???? Please tell me why this might not work.
Sorry to disappoint you, but a DVI splitter cannot be used as a DVI switch - others have tried it and it didn't work.

Originally posted by dwk
I am also curious if you can 'Y' a DVI signal to two inputs. I want to split a DVI signal to two TV's in separate rooms.
You should be able to use the DVI splitter to split the signal. I haven't heard of anyone trying it yet, if you do try, please report back.

Originally posted by dwk
We are all anxiously awaiting Aruns test on the dvi switch!
The Belkin DVI switch hasn't arrived yet. According to what they told me, it should be shipping any day now. I'll be in Europe starting tomorrow and next week, hopefully it'll be here when I come back. Don't keep your hopes too high on this one. It has already been reported that it doesn't work with HDCP enforcing DVI outputs - such as STB and Samsung 931. I am going to try to see if it works for switching Bravo D1 and HTPC.

My possible "solution" is so "simple" I'm sure its been thought of and discarded as technically not feasible. Why not a SIMPLE Y SPLITTER coming out of, say the TV..........one IN and cord about 1 foot long with TWO DVI outputs (or inputs) right there???? Please tell me why this might not work.

As Arun stated, it won't work.

The technical reason why it won't work is that there's no way for the TV to select which input to listen to. In fact, you could do damage to the TV or one of the components in trying this.

Imagine that both devices are on and outputting a signal. Which one is the TV supposed to read? Heck, what's going to happen when one input drives a pin low and the other high? Or if both drive a pin high in sync then the output voltage could be twice what's allowed by the spec.

Y-cables are designed to be used only as splitters for output purposes. They cannot, and should not, be used as switches for input purposes.

Why not an A/B switch box? where you depress the A/B button to switch from one to the other?

We all want a DVI switch, but existing ones are pretty overpriced and nobody's found one yet that doesn't introduce video noise, which defeats the whole purpose.

Business opportunity alert!

Does Extron offer one that doesn't introduce noise? (although, to your point, they ARE expensive)

I recently bought the HLN5065W when a TV Authority salesman conviced me the DCDi chip advertised on the HLN507W was in fact a part of the lesser priced set's circuitry. I received the set and find the results to be unsatisfactory in anything except HD mode. I see 'zero' benefit from the much-touted DNIe system. Have I been flim-flammed by a sales guy, or are the sets essentially the same--with DCDi in both units?

Thanks for your counsel!

The sales guy was correct. The sets are identical except for the color of the bezel.

Sorry you're aren't thrilled. There any many threads on tweaking the sets that you might want to read. There are also about two dozen threads that would have given you an instant answer to your question, including the first page of this very thread.

Welcome to the forum!
RDaneel

Originally posted by RDaneel
The sales guy was correct. The sets are identical except for the color of the bezel.

Sorry you're aren't thrilled. There any many threads on tweaking the sets that you might want to read. There are also about two dozen threads that would have given you an instant answer to your question, including the first page of this very thread.

Welcome to the forum!
RDaneel

And starting HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=256065) is a good idea before asking lots of questions that have been answered over and over and over is a GREAT IDEA!

Have fun reading.

Regards,
Jeff

Thanks for the info.... I guess I had better follow those threads and find out how I can tweak the set. The HD signal is great. I'd stack it up against a Wega or any comporably priced plasma. It's just the analog signals aren't nearly as clean as I had hoped.... Further advice on 'tweaking' threads would be appreciated (I'm on a Mac and couldn't read the WinZip files from Mr. Gupta....)

Thanks!

Originally posted by mandrews
Thanks for the info.... I guess I had better follow those threads and find out how I can tweak the set. The HD signal is great. I'd stack it up against a Wega or any comporably priced plasma. It's just the analog signals aren't nearly as clean as I had hoped.... Further advice on 'tweaking' threads would be appreciated (I'm on a Mac and couldn't read the WinZip files from Mr. Gupta....)

Thanks!

EEGADS! NOT A MAC!! :)

Unfortunately you may be hosed as far as most of the tweaks on the boards go. Basically, unless you had one of the HLM models that was extensively tweaked, or have a brand new set with rev. 214 firmware, there are no tweaks specific to anything in between. Most likely you have version 209 or 211 of the firmware in your 507... that's just a guess though. You can verify this by going into the service menu. Perhaps contact Arun to snag a version of the document for yourself in non-ZIP format. Hopefully your MAC can read MS Word documents.

So much for the user-friendliness of the MAC, huh?

Good luck,
Jeff

Hey, Jeff:
Thanks for the words of encouragement. The 5065 is brand-new, but won't know the Ver. on the firmware until I check that service menu. (Set was delivered last night and I could only spend two hours with it before I started dozing off....) I'll contact Mr. Gupta as you suggest. He seems to be 'The Man' on these babies....

Mark A.
Orlando

Originally posted by mandrews
Thanks for the info.... I guess I had better follow those threads and find out how I can tweak the set. The HD signal is great. I'd stack it up against a Wega or any comporably priced plasma. It's just the analog signals aren't nearly as clean as I had hoped.... Further advice on 'tweaking' threads would be appreciated (I'm on a Mac and couldn't read the WinZip files from Mr. Gupta....)

This is simply a Word document and easily unZipped on a Mac. If you like, I can email you an unZipped copy--from my Mac. :p

Spad

Originally posted by mandrews
Thanks for the info.... I guess I had better follow those threads and find out how I can tweak the set. The HD signal is great. I'd stack it up against a Wega or any comporably priced plasma. It's just the analog signals aren't nearly as clean as I had hoped.... Further advice on 'tweaking' threads would be appreciated (I'm on a Mac and couldn't read the WinZip files from Mr. Gupta....)

Thanks!


Go to Download.com and search for stuffit.... It does zips.

Oh yeah, Mac blows.. Just thought I'd throw that in.... :)

HDCP compliant DVI switch


Ridiculous price aside, have these been discussed in this thread?

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI_switch.html#4x1

I searched for ramelectonics in this thread
but found nothing.


Are these the ones that were analog? Sorry if this is a repeat.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by arungupta
[B]- VGA is just another input port like DVI or component. In terms of quality of picture, DVI is the best, VGA is a close second, and Component is much lower down in quality.

- VGA has been used traditionally used to connect computers to monitors

-Arungupta: I would NOT use the VGA for a computer. I would/may, if possible, hook up the VGA from the HLN to go into the STB. Would that be a good idea if I wanted to reserve the DVI for exclusive use with the Bravo D1. Your thoughts and or suggestions?

Yes, it is POSSIBLE to hook up some STB's via VGA instead of DVI so that your Bravo can use the DVI. However, be advised that myself and several other forum members have had some nasty issues with trying to center our pictures when using the TS160 STB and the VGA input. No such issues with the DVI input though.

Regards,
Jeff


Originally posted by kmil
[QUOTE]Originally posted by arungupta
[B]- VGA is just another input port like DVI or component. In terms of quality of picture, DVI is the best, VGA is a close second, and Component is much lower down in quality.

- VGA has been used traditionally used to connect computers to monitors

-Arungupta: I would NOT use the VGA for a computer. I would/may, if possible, hook up the VGA from the HLN to go into the STB. Would that be a good idea if I wanted to reserve the DVI for exclusive use with the Bravo D1. Your thoughts and or suggestions?

I was just wondering...I noticed you had a section on Xbox use with these sets. I just read a review in Xbox Magazine for an VGA adapter for the Xbox. You simply plug it in and connect a Vga cable to the adapter and then to the set. Do you think this will offer a better picture then just using a component cable with the advanced av pack for he Xbox?

Arun: I got the call from TVA today, and the set (and STB) are in the mail. One thing I've been meaning to ask you or the board about. I'm going to hang on to my old VCR for a while to tape Cband satellite and analog - until a killer app recording device that does it all comes along at a lower price. Let's skip the part about DVI to the TV - I'll do that of course, but I want to focus on conventional OTA signals. (I'll input the satellite to the VCR by video cables, so no problem there either.

Focusing on the OTA coax feed now. Short of a coax signal splitter or switch that will degrade the incoming OTA, is there any work around for the following setup.
Sammy HLN TV, Sammy T165OTA, ordinary VCR. Neither the HLN TV nor the 165 STB has a coax output that I can daisy chain into the VCR or the set, so I'll have to go to VCR first, then out to 165, then - yikes. I would like to be able to use the tuner in the TV as well, but that would require yet another split. Any advice from anyone welcome.

I forget to mention the product. Its called X2VGA by Neoya. It costs 64.95.

JBach, I'm talking without looking here, so take it FWIW.

1. I know my HLM has an RF output, although I've never tried using it. Are you sure your HLN doesn't have one?

2. Does the VCR have a video input as well as RF? If so you could try a spare video output from the T165 while sending signal to the TV via DVI.

3. To really know what I'm talking about I'd have to check the book on my T165.

Originally posted by Jbach
Arun: I got the call from TVA today, and the set (and STB) are in the mail. One thing I've been meaning to ask you or the board about. I'm going to hang on to my old VCR for a while to tape Cband satellite and analog - until a killer app recording device that does it all comes along at a lower price. Let's skip the part about DVI to the TV - I'll do that of course, but I want to focus on conventional OTA signals. (I'll input the satellite to the VCR by video cables, so no problem there either.

Focusing on the OTA coax feed now. Short of a coax signal splitter or switch that will degrade the incoming OTA, is there any work around for the following setup.
Sammy HLN TV, Sammy T165OTA, ordinary VCR. Neither the HLN TV nor the 165 STB has a coax output that I can daisy chain into the VCR or the set, so I'll have to go to VCR first, then out to 165, then - yikes. I would like to be able to use the tuner in the TV as well, but that would require yet another split. Any advice from anyone welcome.
HLN sets have a coax RF output to connect to your VCR.

I also thought that decent RF splitters don't cause any meaningful PQ degradation. I haven't had to use one with the DLP set, so its possible that the degradation is noticeable on HLN.

Has anyone had a problem with their video inputs (all but vga/rf) going crazy? I don't know the technical term but I turned on my tv yesterday after work and the satellite tv piture was jumping all over the place, tested it on my svideo imput on my pc and it was fine, tested my dreamcast (composite) and dvd player (component) on vid imputs 1-3 and had same problem on all of them. I unplugged the tv and left it for a few hours and it worked fine when I came back but I was scared for a while...

See attached for a pic of my setup...
PS: the rabbit ears are for the radio not the tv ;)

Arun and Doug: Thanks a bunch for responding - my duh. Somehow I missed that detail (the RF out on the set) on the diagrams and in Arun's list in the guide. I'll be fine

Just bought a 61 tv havent hooked it up yet ( house under construction) in laymens terms what would be a good dvd player in the $500.00 range and how should i hook it up??? i,ve looked a the integra 7.3 so far What is a brovo??

thanks mike:confused:

How about a great DVD player for 200 bucks? The Bravo d1.. If you want to spend 500 bucks, I'd be happy to buy it for you. :)

Hey Arun, what do you think about the X2VGA I mentioned for converting the Xbox to VGA? Benefits over the component?

Originally posted by maxvengeance111
Hey Arun, what do you think about the X2VGA I mentioned for converting the Xbox to VGA? Benefits over the component?
If it works and delivers the same quality picture as VGA from an PC, it is a phenomenal breakthrough. I've always thought that a modded XBOX is an unbelievable value as a "game box+HTPC", and the only thing that has kept me from exploring its potential further is the lack of a VGA or DVI output. X2VGA could change that. Please try it and let us all know.

I am also ordering one to try out. Will report in about 2 weeks.

I posted a thread about a week ago asking about a vga converter for an XBox, but no one unfortunately seemed to know anything about it. Well it looks like one exists which is cool. My question was and is this...will this solve the 480i-1080i dilemma that XBox owners face?

Cool. I will. To find more info about it, check out the review on Xbox magazine, or go to the website at
http://www.x2vga.com/x2vga_info_eng.php.
I will probably get it in the next couple weeks being that it is like 80 bucks delivered and I just spent 4000k on the new Tv, stand, dvd player, cable, etc. lol. When I get it or if someone else gets it before me, will put the observations on here.

Originally posted by mike moto
Just bought a 61 tv havent hooked it up yet ( house under construction) in laymens terms what would be a good dvd player in the $500.00 range and how should i hook it up??? i,ve looked a the integra 7.3 so far What is a brovo??

thanks mike:confused:
Mike, you MUST not buy a DVD player that doesn't support DVI output. There is a night and day difference in PQ when you connect through DVI vs. component.

There are 2 players now that support DVI, Bravo D1 and Samsung 931. Both deliver great picture but have some other quirks -- Bravo D1 ($200, www.vinc.us) has a lockup problem with dirty/scratched DVDs, and Samsung 931 (about $250, many retailers) stretches 4:3 DVDs. Many other DVI capable players should be out by this fall.

For more, read the HLN and the DVI guides -- see my signature.

Originally posted by arungupta
If it works and delivers the same quality picture as VGA from an PC, it is X2VGA could change that. Please try it and let us all know.

I am also ordering one to try out. Will report in about 2 weeks.

I will be very interested to hear how the X2VGA works. That's a product I would definitely be interested in for hooking up my XBox.

Jeff

Originally posted by Vermonster
I posted a thread about a week ago asking about a vga converter for an XBox, but no one unfortunately seemed to know anything about it. Well it looks like one exists which is cool. My question was and is this...will this solve the 480i-1080i dilemma that XBox owners face?
The dilemma doesn't exist for a VGA connection - so yes, it should be solved.

This converter apparently has a button on the would play 480i albeit in a not too pretty PQ even if the set couldnt display 480i. This is done because this converter is for using with a computer screen which wouldnt be able to pass a 480i signal I believe. So its covered both ways I believe.

Arun I wanted to ask you a question regarding SM tweaks. After doing these tweaks is the set calibrated like it would be if an ISF guy came and did his thing? Also what are the tweaks that can be made that are just simply turning off some features that aren't needed? Thanks.

Originally posted by maxvengeance111
Arun I wanted to ask you a question regarding SM tweaks. After doing these tweaks is the set calibrated like it would be if an ISF guy came and did his thing? Also what are the tweaks that can be made that are just simply turning off some features that aren't needed? Thanks.
An individual ISF calibration should be better. I don't know how much better.

which is the better of the two??
what cable do you recommend??
this is very helpfull i read about the bravo before i bought the tv but the guys at tweeter knew nothing about it.

Originally posted by maxvengeance111
Arun I wanted to ask you a question regarding SM tweaks. After doing these tweaks is the set calibrated like it would be if an ISF guy came and did his thing? Also what are the tweaks that can be made that are just simply turning off some features that aren't needed? Thanks.

So I have little to offer in terms of expertise in this area. I've played around with SM settings on my TV and I have always set them back to default because I didn't see a clear evidence that I was improving annything. One reason that I haven't really been tempted to go further in this area is that I am REALLY REALLY happy with the PQ out of the box. Coming from computer/software background, I generally follow the principle -- if it works don't break it.

Others in this forum, Kenland and PhilB for example, are the experts and I would take direct advice from them or follow their lead. As a consensus emerges in this forum that certain tweaks always work and improve quality noticeably, I too will follow that advice and document it in the guide. It hasn't happened yet.

I've asked people who have had ISF calibration done on this set to post their experiences. I have't seen any significant posts so far.

Originally posted by mike moto
which is the better of the two??
what cable do you recommend??
this is very helpfull i read about the bravo before i bought the tv but the guys at tweeter knew nothing about it.
I have a slight preference for Bravo D1, but I wouldn't call it a recommendation. Its only sold direct by V Inc., no retailers will talk about it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by arungupta
[B]I have a slight preference for Bravo D1, but I wouldn't call it a recommendation.

Its only sold direct by V Inc., no retailers will talk about it.

Arun: And the reason "no retailers will talk about it" is......................?

Um...because it's only sold direct. (The retailers don't generally tend to talk about stuff they don't sell).

Just hooked up my Bravo for the first time last night and watched the Goonies. With 5 minutes left in the movie the thing locked up. I think the frequency of this happening has got to be more than 1%, or I'm just very unlucky. I'm going to try the canned air trick to see if that works, but if not, anyone know how V Inc. is dealing with this issue?


Bummer. :(

A question about VGA cable. I just ordered the X2VGA and was wondering what kind of VGA cable should I get. Do I need to spend 100 to 200 bucks for a good cable from either Better Cables or Monster? Or can I get like a 30 computer cable? Will there be a difference?

I suspect that a normal computer cable is fine... but it's your money ;)

If it works for computers (which are usually hooked up to very high resolution displays) then it should be great for a DLP.

Just my opinion,
RDaneel

That's what I figured. It is probably just a marketing ploy. Why would the cables need to be better for DLP then it is for computers?

I think they makes these, but now after purchasing the X2vga...is there a cable that has an S-Video connection on one end and a VGA on the other or some kind of box that enables an S-video signal to be connected to a VGA connection? Would that make Satellite, normal Sat not HD look better if it was connected to the VGA on these sets?

How could it look better? Aren't you limited by the source? You can't get better than svideo out of an svideo cable.

I LOVE my DLP 437W, but am going to pass on the Bravo D1 and here's why.

I tried the Bravo and an old non-progressive Sony side by side. The Sony used component inputs and the Bravo used DVI at 720p.

The picture is magnificent either way. However, since all DVDs material has at most 480 lines, when the Bravo displays the material at 720p I have black boxes above and below the content image -- they are the additional 240 lines of black at 720p. This leaves me with a smaller image than I want -- the zoom feature of the player does not do such a hot job either yielding pixelation.

When viewing the same DVDs with an older Sony non-progressive player (albeit at 480), widescreen DVDs fill my screen and look just as good to me. Perhaps this is the farroudja circuitry, but it looks awesome.

Staying with the component-based DVD player also leaves me a free DVI port on the DLP for an HD box, avoiding the problems of needing a DVI switch.

Also, how often do I watch DVDs? To be honest I don't really watch the ones I own over and over -- I usually use the DVD player for viewing rentals from blockbuster, or for viewing discs I burn on my PC -- photo CDs, MP3, and DVDs that I make from our family's digital video cam. So for me, good compatibility with various media is very important, and the Bravo's compatibility is marginal at best.

The final straw was my dealings with V customer support. Talk about defensive and somewhat hostile, they related to me that the Bravo is not even designed much less produced by V. It is a Chinese-made unit and is clearly an attempt to exploit a new chipset at a low price -- and unfortunately low quality and poor compatibility.

The reason I had to deal with customer support was that I received a unit with a "bad loader" which couldn't load much at all without going into an infinite loop. The fact that these bad drives are showing up in customer systems DIRECTLY reflects on the quality program in China and at V.

I am returning my Bravo today. While I appreciate all the great info and testing that ya'll have made available, particularly Arun and his guides, I must give the Bravo a THUMBS DOWN.

Mike Kogan

I have a different story. To me my Bravo is the best investment I've made for my HLN567. I don't have a component-out DVD so I can't speak for that. But I do have a S-video Sony DVD. Differences between the Sony and the Bravo on DVI-out at 720p are amazing. The Bravo is less grainy, more sharp, more clear, and less washed-out. The added features such as mp3 and Divx support are the icing on the cake. Oh, and one more thing, even though the Manuel doesn't mention support for DVD-RW and DVD+RW disks, these disks burned with my Sony DRU-510A do work on the Bravo. Just thought I pass that bit of info along. And for $200 without HDCP :D , I'm glad I grabbed one before it is a thing of the past.

Cheers

Quick question on both 43 inch DLP sets from Samsung. I was told they were identical as far as the insides go. The only difference being that the HLN437W has a dark bezel instead of the silver bezel of the HLN4365. I just looked at the brochures and it states that the HLN437W has the Faroudja chip in it and the 4365 doesn't mention that it has it at all. So do they both have the Faroudja chip or was I mislead by Onecall where I purchased my 4365. The guy told me there was no difference between the two other then the color of the bezel. Thanks.