I just took my 467 out of the box last night, fearing (based on this and other web sites ) that I would regret my purchase because of SD quality. Through the lousy RF connection I must say the PQ is excellent. Digital channel (Cablevision SA 3000 series box) are excellent and near DVD quality. Channels in the analog spectrum are good, with the exception of AMC and a few others. I wonder if the SA HD box coming Sunday with component hook ups will be even better. I am very satisfied, and think that the set is great right out of the box. Got my through Crutchfield with no hassle shipping for 3799 with 180 days to pay, free shipping and no tax.
System is Panasonic RP 91K DVD (excellent PQ) Sony VCR (very good PQ-which was a surprise) Denon 1804 driving a Definitive Tech 6.1 Procinema 100 series speaker system. I am quite pleased with this amazing technology.

Anybody else missing Arun?

He is on a five week business trip.

If you guys/gals live in Wisconsin, Illinois, or Iowa, American TV is having their 10% over cost sale. I got the 467 pretty cheap from them. Sale goes through next Monday I believe.

I'm looking for a DVI cable for my 617. What is the best cable, exactly what type do I need, and where is the best place to buy it from? Appreciate the info.

Try www.pacificable.com They have relatively inexpensive DVI cables, and most here seem to do well with a 1 or 2 meter dual-link male-to-male cable.

If you're planning on using more than one device, then you may want to try a male-to-female cable on the DLP end, and then two 1meter male-to-male cables for your devices. That's what I've done and it works as well as can be expected until affordable DVI switch solutions become more available.

Rick

Can someone who owns a HLN437W post the service menu defaults for the AD9883 (Component / 480P)? Like a fool, I started adjusting the gains and offsets before I wrote down the defaults. Now I can't get close to a reasonable looking picture.

I've seen lots of posts for service menu defaults, but not for the HLN437W.

Thank you.

Originally posted by vblyth
I'm looking for a DVI cable for my 617. What is the best cable, exactly what type do I need, and where is the best place to buy it from? Appreciate the info.

Try Ram Electronics. I just bought a DVI cable there for my Bravo/HLM set-up. Excellent information available there on the type of cable you will need.

ramelectronics.net/html/DVI_monitor_cables.html

Originally posted by db4me
Try Ram Electronics. I just bought a DVI cable there for my Bravo/HLM set-up. Excellent information available there on the type of cable you will need.

ramelectronics.net/html/DVI_monitor_cables.html

db4me,
Thanks for the link. Good DVI info on the site as you said. Ordered a cable tonight.

ender21,
Thanks for the info on the cables. Only one DVI device for now, but I will keep in mind your manual switching idea.

Originally posted by tfourier
Can someone who owns a HLN437W post the service menu defaults for the AD9883 (Component / 480P)?

Afraid you're in trouble -- there are no true defaults for the various SM values since they vary somewhat from set to set.

bump

Just curious. What does "bump" mean?

Pete

That means he just knocked or "bumped" the thread up to the top of the list

I hooked my Samsung OTA STB SIR-T351 up to my Sammy DLP last night for the first time and the HD signal did not fill the screen leaving 1"-2" around the picture. There was also some "noise" across the top of the picture. Has anyone else seen this with the DVI connection? Connecting with the component out is fine. Since I only have one cable, one DVI component, and one TV, it is tough to figure out where the problem is.

Appreciate any info. Thanks.

vblyth, you might want to make sure that the aspect ratio of your tv is set to Wide (TV) and not Wide (PC). Wide (PC) underscans the image so you can see your entire windows desktop. Wide (TV) gives normal 1:1 pixel mapping.

Rick

Originally posted by ender21
vblyth, you might want to make sure that the aspect ratio of your tv is set to Wide (TV) and not Wide (PC). Wide (PC) underscans the image so you can see your entire windows desktop. Wide (TV) gives normal 1:1 pixel mapping.

Rick

Thanks Rick, that did the trick. I knew it must have been something I was missing on the tv. Still having fun learning. :)

vblyth, I see about 4-5 lines with noise at the top of my picture at times when viewing ABC HD broadcasts through my Sammy 351 STB into my HLN467. Don't see that from other stations so wonder what ABC or Samsung has messed up. Perhaps ABC is putting VITS into the picture area? Anyone else see this, or know what the cause is?

Originally posted by TooLittleTimeZZZ
vblyth, I see about 4-5 lines with noise at the top of my picture at times when viewing ABC HD broadcasts through my Sammy 351 STB into my HLN467. Don't see that from other stations so wonder what ABC or Samsung has messed up. Perhaps ABC is putting VITS into the picture area? Anyone else see this, or know what the cause is?

I was noticing the noise when the picture was not filling the screen. As soon as I switched it to Wide (DVI), I didn't see any noise at all just glorious HDTV. I haven't had any other problems with the T351. However, I have the STB back on component though since the HD931 DVD player showed up.;)

Hi everyone, I am back from my trip abroad.

I intended to be somewhat active on this forum and thread during this trip, but it din't work out that way. I am now catching up with everything.

I am planning the next upgrade to the HLN guide. Any suggestions?

Welcome back!

Originally posted by arungupta
Hi everyone, I am back from my trip abroad.

I intended to be somewhat active on this forum and thread during this trip, but it din't work out that way. I am now catching up with everything.

I am planning the next upgrade to the HLN guide. Any suggestions?


Arun: This may help see a post I made this morning to a "Dwette"
Jist: I had a LONG chat with Samsung this morning and one of
their so called "rolling revisions" has the possiblity of reset all values back to what he called, "factory settings". We are not supposed to "know" about this but here is what he said to do:

1.) When in the SM go to "Option Menu"
2.) There is supposed to be a button "labeled something
like "Video Recall" (which should reset things to:
what called "all factory settings".

Please let me/us know if this helps. Though he did not say specifically, these probably refer to the 467/567W, BUT may well
be for all new HLN's.

On another note: the 467w SOUND sucks big time. I heard it last night at Circuit City in a 50 inch and 46 inch next to the new Sony LCD TV.
Model KF-42WE610. For a TV like Sony the sound was "filling", excellent or close to it. By comparison the Sammy sounded TINNY and much less full, although it did improve slightly by messing with the audio settings.

Secondly Arun, as to the ability to plug a powered subwoofer directly into the back of the Sammy forget it! That would have solved the problem nicely!! Samsung tech agreed and will pass that recommendation along to the powers to be. He also agreed that it would be nice to be able to buy a pair of speakers and put them right along the sides of the Sammy AND do so WITHOUT having to go through an amp! In other words, when you plugged the speakers into the BACK of the Sammy the Sammy speakers would be automatically muted. He said he'd pass that suggestion along too. BTW, we/I appreciate ALL the fine work and the help you've give us members. Also, when do you anticipate your new HLN update will be ready? Once again, thanks!!!

Arun:
In regards to the Guide, the Firmware History needs updating. Also your User Menu adjustments haven't been updated for a while. With the work done by mike_pro has there been any consolidation in the tweaks??
Oh yeah, also any update on your DVI switch situation?
I'm glad your back and hope your trip was successful. I appreciate all the hard work you have done..I am constantly re-reading your guide.
If I can be of any particular help as a HLN5065W owner with 302 Firmware please let me know.

Originally posted by jcolec
Arun:
In regards to the Guide, the Firmware History needs updating. Also your User Menu adjustments haven't been updated for a while. With the work done by mike_pro has there been any consolidation in the tweaks??
Oh yeah, also any update on your DVI switch situation?
I'm glad your back and hope your trip was successful. I appreciate all the hard work you have done..I am constantly re-reading your guide.
If I can be of any particular help as a HLN5065W owner with 302 Firmware please let me know.

Arun -- couldn't have said it better myself. Likewise, if you are doing any updating and need any info on an HLM507 with 111 firmware, let me know.

Thanks again.

Perhaps a warning on video dealy / audio sync issues being reported by many owners.

Thanks for all your suggestions. The update list so far:
- User menu / service menu
- Firmware history
- DVI switching
- 1x1 mapping without overscan (from Gouger)
- Sound / speaker setup
- Samsung DLP future including wish list

jav1, I am not aware of any audio sync issues that are directly related to this set.

More suggestions are welcome.

Video delay / audio issues click here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=295677&highlight=delay

Originally posted by arungupta
jav1, I am not aware of any audio sync issues that are directly related to this set.

More suggestions are welcome.
Here is an indication that Samsung is doing something.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2803917#post2803917

I need help with the guide.. I cant click on any of the links in your Doc.. I'm using MWord to view it on WinXP pro.

Originally posted by eclypse
I need help with the guide.. I cant click on any of the links in your Doc.. I'm using MWord to view it on WinXP pro.
Isn't it still a word document? I didn't know that you could have links in a word document. If so, you may need to use MS Word. Or, is MWord short for Microsoft Word? If so, those underlined words and phrases are just that.

Yeah its Microsoft word.. Well they seem like links to me.. Links to threads and such.

Depending on the version of word you have, you may have to press ctrl key when you click on a link. You can also use right mouse button on a link and then select "Open hyperlink".

Ok thanks i'll try that out..

Arun,

In checking the firmware history in your Guide, I see that each version 214 and earlier "Remembers Video Settings for each input". Do you know if this includes settings for DNIe, Digital Noise Reduction, and Film Mode? That is, are changes to these settings specific to each input? Apparently v302 does not hold onto settings specific to each input, but I'd like to know if previous versions did. Thanks!

Terry

Ok i tried the sugestions and it did nothing.. I'm using Microsoft Word 5.01..

That's a very old version of MS Word.

It should work in openoffice also. Download free from openoffice.org

-David

Arun

Is the 467 or 567 any different from the 5065 or 4065 other than size?

Thanks

Originally posted by joenash
Is the 467 or 567 any different from the 5065 or 4065 other than size?

If there is a difference other than case and screen size no one has found out what it is. One possibility is that QC at Samsung may cherry pick components for the HLN467 and HLN 567. Who knows?

What makes you think so? It does on my 302.

Originally posted by terrysmirl
Apparently v302 does not hold onto settings specific to each input, but I'd like to know if previous versions did.

I think he's just referring to DNIE DNR and Film mode. I've tested this on my v.302 HLN617 and sure enough, the settings for each of those adjustments stay intact for DVI and PC inputs (with the exception of those things not available at all for those inputs). All other inputs share the memory for these settings, it seems.

Rick

I've not seen it mentioned here, but my new 617 with 302 seems not to require that melody be off before entering the SM. Is this new with the 300 series of FW? Or am I forgetting something. (Not that I'd ever enter the SM... :) )

(I also assume that 'melody' is the power up/down chimes you hear...!)

I have the 507 with a v209 and I can get in there with it on and off.
Again...Not that I am in there all the time..Went in when I first got the tv to check my version and build date. it was on then cause I didn't even know that I could turn it off.
Went in later with Josh(DocDVD) to tweak the tv and he had me turn the melody off..
But not sure if it is different between sizes of tvs.

Guys, it's not a question of getting there with it on or off... it's just 10x QUICKER to get in and out if you turn it off, that's all. At least it was on the 204 and earlier firmware. I fail to see a use for the melody myself, so I immediately turned it off after the 214 upgrade.

Later,
Jeff

I thought turning off melody was only necessary to access the SM if the set was already on (preventing the need to turn the set off before entering the SM).

Hi guys,

I got my 5065 last Wednesday and would also like to report a sound delay for this set as well. I am experiencing this problem on both DVD and cable feeds. It comes and goes and it was more pronounce on cable HDTV feed (PBS) the other night. It is not that bad, but can get distracting at times.

HLN5065W
Release Date: Aug 20, 2003, Firmware: 306

I will report this to Samsung sometime this week and provide feedback as soon as I hear back from them.

You can see my first impressions here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=318311).

Thanks,
Maziar

Hi,

Well, I just got off the phone with Samsung Canada and my Rotel dealer.

Samsung advised that this delay could be caused because of using a sound system other than the TV speakers. I pointed out that I have been using this setup with my old TV and never had this problem which was acknowledged, but I was politely reminded again that this might have been caused by my sound system. I was asked to connect the TV speakers directly to the Cable and DVD to see if this problem exist.

So I then called my trusty Rotel dealer and was told unless the front speaker are positioned too faraway from each other, I should not use any delay on them. I use a 5ms delay on my center channel.

I am going to change the delay setup of my processor and will provide feedback later.

By the way, I was connected immediately when I called Samsung and the Tech was very polite and friendly.

Thanks,
Maziar

Originally posted by NikePenguin
I thought turning off melody was only necessary to access the SM if the set was already on (preventing the need to turn the set off before entering the SM).
Turning melody off and leaving it off is just a convenience. Most people don't find it useful for anything.

Originally posted by htwaits
Turning melody off and leaving it off is just a convenience. Most people don't find it useful for anything.

I actually find it useful to confirm the power on/off. Much easier than trying to hear the "whisper" quiet fan. :p

Originally posted by NikePenguin
I actually find it useful to confirm the power on/off. Much easier than trying to hear the "whisper" quiet fan. :p
"Sounds" good to me. ;)

Of course Samsung has taken back some louder fans. You might want to try one of those. :D

I also find the melody very helpful. I turned it off for a while and often pushed the power more than once because I thought the tv didn't actually turn on. I actually turned it on and then turned it off again. Because of the delay in the set coming on, I can see why Samsung added the melody feature.

Originally posted by tirepatch
I also find the melody very helpful. I turned it off for a while and often pushed the power more than once because I thought the tv didn't actually turn on. I actually turned it on and then turned it off again. Because of the delay in the set coming on, I can see why Samsung added the melody feature.
Owners obviously know more than those who just wait.
:rolleyes:

I looked at the hln507 this weekend at bb and noticed something I hadn't seen on the same set in other stores. The white areas had some sort of pattern in them...like different shades of white with obvious lines between the shadings, and the lines would move around a little. It was particularly evident in the Discovery HD logo in the bottom corner. It looked a little like what I see on my computer screen if I'm looking at a digital image without enough colors or resolution...except it was moving.

I wondered if this was "dithering" but I've done searches and most of the articles refer to this as happening in dark areas, rather than white areas.

The CRT RPs on the same feed didn't have this problem...just solid white fields.

So is this a problem with DLPs, or is it a function of the source material? Like I know bb splits these signals a million times by the time it gets to the TV set. Or is it a function of getting the set tweaked properly, which I'm sure bb doesn't do?

So, on the melody/SM issue: If the set's on you still have to do power/mute/182/power, right? It would be nice to have a 'get in the menu while on' sequence (that doesn't start to shut the set down).

bump

joenash, why are you bumping a thread that someone just posted on less than an hour ago???

Lee:

If your tv is on, go to the menu and turn the melody off. Now, you can hit
Power-Mute-1-8-2-Power in quick succession and the tv will not go through the complete shutdown. It screen temporarily goes black and then comes back up with the SM. After you make your changes, you have to turn the set off, wait for the fan to complete its cooling cycle (+/- 30 seconds), then turn it back on. You can then go back and turn on the melody if you want to.

Gotcha, thanks... I knew there was a point to the melody, but it seemed to be posted as 'can't get into SM with Melody on' which isn't it. I'll give that a whirl tonight!

Hi,

Is there any reason why my HLN5065 does not keep the picture setting for different inputs? At times when I change inputs, the picture sitting will default back to dynamic. It does keep my custom setting but I have to change it back from dynamic to custom manually.

Is this normal?

Thanks,
Maziar

What firmware revision do you have? This behavior is not the case on my v214 HLN617W. Are you enterring the service menu at any time? Going into the SM automatically changes you to Dynamic and Normal color tone for every input. You will need to change it for each input you don't want to use Dynamic and Normal on.

Later,
Jeff


Originally posted by mazuly
Hi,

Is there any reason why my HLN5065 does not keep the picture setting for different inputs? At times when I change inputs, the picture sitting will default back to dynamic. It does keep my custom setting but I have to change it back from dynamic to custom manually.

Is this normal?

Thanks,
Maziar

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

My firmware is 306.

Yes I have been to SM and maybe that is why it happened. I just check the picture settings for all inputs and it is at my custom setting. I will keep an eye on it and see if it reverses back to dynamic again.

Thanks for your help,
Maziar

In this post, tcdesaix achieved 1x1 pixel mapping with no overscan with DVI input from a PC.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2847208#post2847208

- Use Powerstrip to define a new resolution 1248x702 (this cuts out the overscan pixels.)

- Select this setting from your Windows Display Properties, Settings. Most likely this would need a reboot.

- When the system reboots with the new setting, make sure you change the TV aspect to NORMAL. The TV will then accept the pixels as they come in and not try to scale them.

It works great!!!

(By the way, I tried to see if this method would work with VGA also, but it didn't. I don't know why.)

Good luck!

which resolutions work ok with VGA then?

The picture is not exactly centered --left to right-- in any display mode. How can I get the picture centered? Also a white line across the top of the picture that has a lot of static in it. Is there any way I can fix that?

Samsung HDTV (DLP) HLN567W; Samsung SIR-TS160 DirecTV HD Receiver; Sony STR-DA7ES HT Receiver; Sony DVP-NC665P CD/DVD player; Audes Blues and Sentral fronts and center; HSU VTF-3R Sub; Energy Encore 2 /Take 2.2 surround/rear speakers; Signal cables

I just performed a basic calibration on my 3 week old HLN467W , latest firmware which I believe is 306,using digital video essentials. As I have mentioned before, my OOB PQ was good after making a couple of the normal adjustments and I have no intention at this time of making any SM adjustments, in fact I have never even entered the SM. I just don't see the need, my PQ is too good with just UM adjustments.

My 'eyeball' calibration did not change much after using DVE. BTW I am using a Sony non-progressive scan DVD player through components and Comcast digital cable with high definition and standard definition as my 3 major viewing sources.

My numbers came out as follows:
contrast 96
brightness 55
color 40
tint 50/50
sharpness 30, but didn't seem to make much of a difference

So there you have it folks, my PQ is outstanding to my eye. I have little or no green push except in certain DVDs like matrix reloaded where there is already a green bias, grass looks like grass.

Tobin44,
There are up/down and left/right centering settings in the service menu.

That line with static at the top of the picture you're seeing sounds to me like digital data being transmitted by the station on a line in the vertical interval. If you use the SM centering adjustments to move the picture up slightly, you should be able to move it off the top of the screen.

From Arun's Testing Picture Quality on Digital Dislplays:

DVI, 1x1 Pixel mapping, from PC, Using BMP Images

DVI Connection from PC to Samsung DLP
ATI card in 1280x720 mode
TV is in TV-wide mode for 1280x720 resolution to provide 1x1 pixel mapping

1: 1x1 Pixel checkerboard Perfect. Can see every pixel. Astonishing
2: Vertical lines Perfect. Each vertical line perfect.
3: Grey scale text Perfect: Text is perfectly formed
4: Grey scale rectangles Near Perfect: Blacks 4,8 and whites 251, 253 hard to distinguish. A display/calibration issue
5: Circle + Rectangle Perfect. (The edges are cut off due to overscan. Also a display issue.)
6: 250 color blocks Perfect. Each color block has perfect even color.

Conclusion: This is the way to PQ nirvana. 10 out of 10

Arungupta said:
"In this post, tcdesaix achieved 1x1 pixel mapping with no overscan with DVI input from a PC."


Arun:
Are you saying that using tcdesaix's method you eliminate the overscan mentioned in #5 above or are you saying something else. I've read where other people are having a hard time just getting a PC and the Samsung HLN sets to work nicely using the DVI input - but I thought you had already done it with little or no trouble.

I spoke to someone at Samsung today and they told me that the new models for DLP would be announced in December and ship in early 1st quarter but he had no comment on if there was going to be any more DVI inputs or the HD2+ chip in the new models. Has anyone heard of when or if this is going to happen.

Originally posted by jcolec
Are you saying that using tcdesaix's method you eliminate the overscan mentioned in #5 above or are you saying something else. I've read where other people are having a hard time just getting a PC and the Samsung HLN sets to work nicely using the DVI input - but I thought you had already done it with little or no trouble.
You have it right, jcolec.

I have never had any problem making DVI work with Samsung DLP - but I could get 1x1 pixel mapping only with overscan before. All the tests that you referenced had overscan. In test #5, the overscan was obvious.

By reducing the resolution to 1248x702, tcdesaix has removed the overscan, while still getting 1x1 pixel mapping.

Originally posted by Radiophile
Tobin44,
There are up/down and left/right centering settings in the service menu.

That line with static at the top of the picture you're seeing sounds to me like digital data being transmitted by the station on a line in the vertical interval. If you use the SM centering adjustments to move the picture up slightly, you should be able to move it off the top of the screen.

How do I get the Service menu back to a "default" setting. I think I have already screwed it up. Also, once in the service menu, how do you make the adjustments you described. Thanks.

Tobin44,
There is no default setting in the SM.
Adjustment in the SM is like the user menu, once you select a setting you want to change use the left/right button to adjust and menu button to go back to the previous page.

Originally posted by downtown1
Tobin44,
There is no default setting in the SM.
Adjustment in the SM is like the user menu, once you select a setting you want to change use the left/right button to adjust and menu button to go back to the previous page.


While using the left/right button within the service menu, one function I highlighted went from "standby" to "processing" --without my pressing OK or Enter I might add. I'll have to go back and see what exactly that function was labelled. Anyway, now I get only a screen of static and when I press the channel button the on screen message is "Air 1" then "Air 2", "Air 3" etc. with only a screen of static.

The labelled functions within the service menu are cryptic and really mean nothing to me --I see nothing that clues me in to where one would make an adjustment to center the picture horizontally or vertically --but at this point I have biger problems as described above. I need to get back to a "default" setting somehow, or I guess I'll have to call a service technician.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Tobin44
While using the left/right button within the service menu, one function I highlighted went from "standby" to "processing" --without my pressing OK or Enter I might add. I'll have to go back and see what exactly that function was labelled. Anyway, now I get only a screen of static and when I press the channel button the on screen message is "Air 1" then "Air 2", "Air 3" etc. with only a screen of static.


Man I feel bad for your misfortune but I think this points out that messing with the settings in the SM is not a good idea for those who are not experienced A/V tech-heads. There are many experts on this forum who could confidently mess with the SM (you may be one of them Tobim, I don't know) but a lot of relative newbies (like me) read your posts and think, gee what a great idea, get into the SM! Even taking the mandatory precaution of recording all existing setting parameters before making changes has been shown many times to be insufficient as changing some settings will also change other seemingly unrelated settings and it is possible to reach a point of no return as Tobin seems to have. Good luck dude, you may have to call a service tech, in which case I suggest you deny any knowledge whatsoever of the SM and just act like a typical big-screen TV owner, "I can't get my TV to work!" :)

Originally posted by rodneyremington
Man I feel bad for your misfortune but I think this points out that messing with the settings in the SM is not a good idea for those who are not experienced A/V tech-heads. There are many experts on this forum who could confidently mess with the SM (you may be one of them Tobim, I don't know) but a lot of relative newbies (like me) read your posts and think, gee what a great idea, get into the SM! Even taking the mandatory precaution of recording all existing setting parameters before making changes has been shown many times to be insufficient as changing some settings will also change other seemingly unrelated settings and it is possible to reach a point of no return as Tobin seems to have. Good luck dude, you may have to call a service tech, in which case I suggest you deny any knowledge whatsoever of the SM and just act like a typical big-screen TV owner, "I can't get my TV to work!" :)


nope, not a gearhead, just a "I can't get my TV to work!" kind of guy . . . .

Thanks.

Tobin,
I have the service manual. send me an personal email and I will help you if you have not already fixed your problem
Bill

Originally posted by bigcrabass
Tobin,
I have the service manual. send me an personal email and I will help you if you have not already fixed your problem
Bill

You know, this note made my day. This is what the internet is all about. Strangers helping strangers. Bill, thanks for the day-brghtener.

Mo

I thought I read above (maybe *way* above...:) ) that the service manual didn't address the SM at all. Is this a new improved version that is useful for SM issues?

Originally posted by leesweet
I thought I read above (maybe *way* above...:) ) that the service manual didn't address the SM at all. Is this a new improved version that is useful for SM issues?
There have been changes in the Service Menu that the Service Manual, depending on when it was released, may not contain. If the firmware version is a match with the Service Manual then that is what the major "tweakers" used.

I'm pretty sure that the Service Menu had some changes and reorganization when firmware version 302 came out. There are others who would be much more knowledgeable than I am on this topic.

Mo,
I can't find anything in the sm for the sw version I have the indicates a "standby" as the default value. What menu were you in?
Bill

Does anybody know of a better price than $4700(after rebate..includes s/h) for the sam 60" DLP? A local store is running that this weekend. Email me at welbym@aol.com if you know of a better deal. Im in Baltimore
thanks in advance
steve

check out ebay under samsung dlp

I just bought a 5065 from Sears and it is getting delivered next saturday. Are my chances pretty good of firmware new enough to get discrete codes? Has anyone bought a DLP recently and not gotten at least v214? Thanks for the help :)

I believe anything manufactured after June or July will be 214 or higher, and perhaps 302 or higher. If you can, check the box manufacture date before it's uncrated for you and see what it says.

Hi,

Today I went in SM to write all default values of my set and I found out that the default values of DNIe for S-Video and Component 1 to 3 was not the same. I was under the impression that these values are global, but it seems that there are differences between S-Video and Component. I have not checked the remaining inputs (Ant, Composite, ...etc). I have attached my SM default values for your reference.

Any idea if this is normal?

Thanks,
Maziar

PS Thanks arun for excellent spreadsheet.

PS I actually engaged AUTOCOLOR in AD9883 before reading the note about this setting in the spread sheet. This completely froze my set. I could not even turn the set off from remote or the TV. I finally had to unplug the TV from the wall. The set came back on and worked fine and when I checked the AUTOCOLOR setting again it was set to OFF. That really scared me.

I've tried downloading the .zip file a couple of times, instructing IE to open the file each time. WinZip opens, but doesn't display any archived contents within the .zip file. What am I doing wrong?

--PS

I've tried downloading the .zip file a couple of times, instructing IE to open the file each time. WinZip opens, but doesn't display any archived contents within the .zip file. What am I doing wrong?

--PS

Save the file on your hard drive, then open it. This seems to be a recurring problem between IE and Winzip.

Duh. Why didnt I think of that? Got the file now....

Next item: check the link associated with "threads on Remote Control." I can't seem to get that one to take me anywhere - and that's exactly where I'd like to go right now.

Thanks,

--PS

Originally posted by mazuly
Hi,

Today I went in SM to write all default values of my set and I found out that the default values of DNIe for S-Video and Component 1 to 3 was not the same. I was under the impression that these values are global, but it seems that there are differences between S-Video and Component. I have not checked the remaining inputs (Ant, Composite, ...etc). I have attached my SM default values for your reference.

Any idea if this is normal?



They are global for Component 1i, S-Video, Composite and Antenna. This set of values will not apply to C1P or Component 2 & 3. If you just checked C1 without a device connected and turned on outputing interlaced then it defaults to progressive and will give you those values.

Autocolor is a bad thing that serves no usefull purpose to us home users, check ALL of your defaults to see if anything has been changed. It's used for setup at the factory and should not be used again.

I just got my 5065w last week and have enjoyed it very much. For those in the know, how do I know which component unput to use with my DVD, I don't have a dvi model yet. And secondly, where do I get information on adjusting this thing. Not a calibration, just a user tweaking.

Thanks

Use component 1 for DVD.

Arun, I tried to get to the threads on programming my universal remote, but the link in the guide doesn't work.

Do you have any idea how I can program a universal remote so that it can select a particular video input? If I can find an answer to that riddle, I can program the "macro" functions in my remote. Then my wife can sit down and press one button to get what she wants to watch (so can I, for that matter).

Any idea how that can be done?

--PS

Originally posted by driver49
Arun, I tried to get to the threads on programming my universal remote, but the link in the guide doesn't work.

Do you have any idea how I can program a universal remote so that it can select a particular video input? If I can find an answer to that riddle, I can program the "macro" functions in my remote. Then my wife can sit down and press one button to get what she wants to watch (so can I, for that matter).

Any idea how that can be done?

--PS

Look at these links:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=290752&highlight=discrete+codes

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=275853&perpage=20&highlight=discrete%20codes&pagenumber=2

Originally posted by arungupta
Use component 1 for DVD.
Well, that's not the best blanket answer, IMHO. For anyone that doesn't have a DVD player yet, or wants to get a new one to take advantage of the set, I'd look at a DVI model (Bravo or Sammie) or at least use 720p in and not 480p.

Now, if you want to reserve the DVI input (and not use a switch) for the HD STB, I still say use something that upscales to 720p and use Comp 2 or 3.

Originally posted by leesweet
Well, that's not the best blanket answer, IMHO. For anyone that doesn't have a DVD player yet, or wants to get a new one to take advantage of the set, I'd look at a DVI model (Bravo or Sammie) or at least use 720p in and not 480p.

Now, if you want to reserve the DVI input (and not use a switch) for the HD STB, I still say use something that upscales to 720p and use Comp 2 or 3.
Lee, my answer was directed to Windigo's question as to which "component input to use" for an existing DVD player. Yours is the more complete answer for DVD players in general.

Originally posted by driver49
Arun, I tried to get to the threads on programming my universal remote, but the link in the guide doesn't work.

driver49, did you have your question answered yet, or are you still looking?

I'm still looking. I found a file with some "discrete codes" like:

Functions EFC OBC Hex
num 0 121 017 77
num 1 180 004 DF

But a) I don't know what "EFC" or "OBC" means, nor b) have I figured out what to do with this info re: my Marantz remote. I've been wandering in the wilderness all morning, certain that there is a pony in here somewhere....

Thanks for your concern - clearly, it's a complex topic.

--PS

I believe "gjoyce" posted the OFA advanced codes a while back.

Originally posted by tmila
I believe "gjoyce" posted the OFA advanced codes a while back.

OFA?

I'll never learn this lingo....

--PS

OFA is the One For All line of remotes. Many Radio Shack ones are OFA, and they have their own line also. The advantage here is that using the JP1 language you can program them far beyond what you can do by following the instructions. If you really want to get into this side of it, see here: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/

Originally posted by arungupta
Lee, my answer was directed to Windigo's question as to which "component input to use" for an existing DVD player. Yours is the more complete answer for DVD players in general.

Arun, quite so. I just didn't want any latecomers here to think that the best answer was to limit the DVD output to 480p. And, I misread 'didn't have a DVI model' for didn't have anything, so, my bad there...

OFA - One for All - A vendor of Remote Controls
http://www.hifi-remote.com/ofa/
http://www.hifi-remote.com/ofa/advanced.shtml

EFC - Advanced Function Codes
OBC - Original Button Codes
http://www.home-electro.com/jp1.htm

IHJ - I hate jargon

driver 49,

You may have better luck with this question in the Remote Control Area (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=93). I also recommend you check out RemoteCentral.com (http://www.remotecentral.com/index.html). This web site has forums, software and control files available for many different remotes. Apparently the Marantz remotes are similar to the Phillips Pronto remotes, so you may find Pronto files work with your Marantz. Here (http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=pronto&db=devices&br=samsung&dv=television&md=hlnseries&fc=&kw=&st=&dt=&so=&pg=1&file=ccf_templates/televisions/sam-tv-hln.zip) is a Pronto control file (CCF) from the site for the Samsung HLN series TV.

Do you have the software for programming your remote from your PC? If not, you can download it from the Marantz web site or Remote Central. Here (http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=pronto&db=other&br=programs&dv=marantzrcseries&fc=) is the download page for software from Remote Central.

The Marantz remote that I have is not "PC Programmable" so it may already be obsolete. I'm looking around for the MX-700 - that looks like the ultimate ticket, but there are none in stock in Nashville; I'll have to order one online, it will probably take a week to get here, so that will give me some more time to fiddle with the Marantz, just to get a better sense of how some of these things will work together. I am going to pick up the RS control so that I can input the codes, though. Now, if I can just find that Doug Brown post that explains how to do that... this thread is, unfortunately, spread across a couple of other threads.

Thanks,

--PS

Originally posted by leesweet
Arun, quite so. I just didn't want any latecomers here to think that the best answer was to limit the DVD output to 480p. And, I misread 'didn't have a DVI model' for didn't have anything, so, my bad there...

So...if I have a basic run of the mill DVD player use componet 1, however, if I had a player that could upscale AND wanted to save my DVI input for my HD box, use either componet inputs 2 or 3.

If that's correct then I've got it. Thanks.

Originally posted by windigo
So...if I have a basic run of the mill DVD player use componet 1, however, if I had a player that could upscale AND wanted to save my DVI input for my HD box, use either componet inputs 2 or 3.

If that's correct then I've got it. Thanks.
Sort of. Use Component 1 with any non-DVI DVD player. Then switch your DVD player's progressive mode on (480p) and off (480i) to see which device does the best job of conversion to 480p on its way to 720p in the Samsung. It's your DVD player's chip against the Samsung's Froudja chip. You are the judge. :)

hi all,

speaking of DVI inputs,does anyone know if Samsung will soon be coming out with a new DLP model with multiple dvi inputs. I hesitate to buy their current models which contain only the one. Thanks for any help.

You should wait ten years until they come with 5 HDMI inputs... actually by then they'll probably be wireless too... Seriously though I have that very problem now because I have a HLN567 and am debating on a new progressive scan DVD player and a new HDTV cable STB.

I was all ready to get the Sammy HD931 and connect it up via component. Then hook the STB up via DVI, but just learned (I think) that the HD931 only up-scales to the DVI output. It's not a big deal since the chips in the HD931 are nearly identical to the HLN567, but why buy it when I can just by a cheaper progressive scan DVD player and let the HLN567 continue to upscale the picture to 720p.

Anyone played with these combos? that being a regular progressive DVD player hooked to Component (non-up-converting 480p) which would let the HLN bring it up to 720p vs. using a Bravo D1 or Sammy HD931 going through the DVI at 720p? I can't imagine there is really that much difference.

I tried what you are talking about, and there is a major difference connecting the 931 through the DVI. Maybe you've got a better DVD player, but I saw lots of banding, "clay faces," and a flat picture when using a non-progressive DVD player through component. All of these issues went away and a major improvement in picture when I shifted to the 931 via DVI.

Your mileage may vary.

Originally posted by Kevin R. Anderson
All of these issues went away and a major improvement in picture when I shifted to the 931 via component.

Did you mean 931 via DVI?

You started with DVI and ended with component...

My error -- now fixed.

Does anybody know what these abbreviations stand for when selecting the cable signal source: STD, IRC, HRC ? I don't see any difference when I select them, and the manual is no use - it just says "call your cable company," which so far has not been a reliable source of info on how to set up this display.

Thanks,

--PS

Originally posted by htwaits
Sort of. Use Component 1 with any non-DVI DVD player. Then switch your DVD player's progressive mode on (480p) and off (480i) to see which device does the best job of conversion to 480p on its way to 720p in the Samsung. It's your DVD player's chip against the Samsung's Froudja chip. You are the judge. :)

Thanks, I didn't know I had a choice. I do have a fairly good progressive player which I have left on (thinking I was doing the right thing), but I'll turn it off and see if I notice a difference.

Thanks again

Terry

driver49, they are various types of signals different cable companies use. Choose whichever one looks best--on my system (TWC-NYC) one (I think it was STD) was clearly superior.

Originally posted by htwaits
Sort of. Use Component 1 with any non-DVI DVD player. Then switch your DVD player's progressive mode on (480p) and off (480i) to see which device does the best job of conversion to 480p on its way to 720p in the Samsung. It's your DVD player's chip against the Samsung's Froudja chip. You are the judge. :)

One thing I'd like to add though: Some (unfortunately, very few) DVDs are encoded in 480p and setting your DVD player to 480i is equivalent to throwing half your movie data out. I have left my DVD player set to output 480p so that in the case that I do watch a movie that was encoded in 480p, I get the best picture. BTW, does anyone know where there might be a list of 480p encoded DVDs?

Originally posted by rgrossman
driver49, they are various types of signals different cable companies use. Choose whichever one looks best--on my system (TWC-NYC) one (I think it was STD) was clearly superior.

I haven't been able to detect any difference so far... I've got Comcast Digital; the pictures look pretty good so far using "STD."

In fact, I'm rather surprised how good the PQ is, generally speaking; one of my big reservations about getting an HDTV display was that the non HD PQ would be lousy, but that has hardly been the case.

So, while I'm satisfied with what I'm getting, I'd hate to think that my inertia is keeping me from something even better. Anybody else know what's the best setting for a straight in (no STB) Comcast signal?

--PS

IRC stands for Incrementally Related Carrier

HRC stands for Harmonically Related Carrier

Originally posted by jb510
IRC stands for Incrementally Related Carrier

HRC stands for Harmonically Related Carrier

Oh boy... more jargon.

--PS

Driver49,
STD is the standard method and frequencies of transmitting cable channels over coax that includes channels up to 36.

IRC and HRC are newer methods to increase channels and remove harmonics from the downconversion process.

HRC: Harmonically Related Carrier. Makes both second- and third-order
beats invisible by making them fall directly on the picture carrier of
other channels. That is, multiplying the picture carrier by two or
three will yield exactly another picture carrier.

IRC: Incrementally Related Carrier, add 1.25 to HRC frequency. A
General Instruments (Jerrold) catalog said that IRC makes third-order
(more important than second-order) beats invisible by making them fall
directly on the picture carrier of other channels. But it is not true
that multiplying an IRC picture carrier by two or three yields another
IRC picture carrier. This contradiction has not been resolved. The
reason third-order harmonics are more important is that oscillators and
amplifiers tend to generate odd-order harmonics far more than
even-order ones.

So check with your cable company and find out what type of system you have and set the tv tuner to that type.

Thanks for the details. I checked with Comcast, they told me to use 'STD'

Thanks,

--PS

Originally posted by driver49
The Marantz remote that I have is not "PC Programmable" so it may already be obsolete. I'm looking around for the MX-700 - that looks like the ultimate ticket, but there are none in stock in Nashville; I'll have to order one online ....
--PS

Just following up on my own posts here. I found an MX-700 on eBay for, hmmm, I'm not supposed to mention prices? Lessee....One Ben, 6 Alexanders and change... and it should arrive via UPS tomorrow, so I have another toy to play with over the weekend (which is as it should be, since Saturday's my birthday!).

I'm sure I'll have questions but might take the thread to the remote control forum.

--PS

I've got a question about aspect ratios when I'm watching the digital channels via component input.

I get it that the component inputs only have two aspect ratios, "normal" and "wide." But how come "wide" is 4:3, and "normal" is a horizontally compressed version of that?

Seems to me "normal" should be 4:3, and "wide" should give a screen-filling option.

When I watch these channels via the antenna input (on "CATV"), I can fill the screen with the "wide" or "panorama" options, so I gather that this is a limitation confined to the component inputs.

Have I missed a setting some where?

Thanks,

--PS

Have you set your STB to 16:9 mode. The symptoms indicate that you haven't.

I thought I had, I checked, and yeah, I think I've got it set for 16:9. I have the Comcast/Motorola 5100 DTC STB, and here are the settings at the top of the menu display:

TV TYPE: 16:9
YPb Pr OUTPUT: 1080I
4:3 OVERRIDE: 480p

Do you see anything there that needs changing?

Thanks,

--PS

I don't know this box, so maybe someone else with the same box can help you.

I would advise changing the resolution from 1080i to 720p, but that won't fix the aspect problem you are having.

why the change to 720p? Doesn't the DLP use 1080I?

--PS

No, the native resolution for the Sammy DLP sets is 720p.

Later,
Jeff


Originally posted by driver49
why the change to 720p? Doesn't the DLP use 1080I?

--PS

Is that right? I feel misled. I thought the native resolution was 1080i. Is the native resolution for ANY HDTV really 1080i? Isn't 1080i REAL HDTV ? I thought 720p is "Enhanced Definition" - EDTV.

I could be all wrong about this, it's not like my research was compehensive (I went, I saw, I purchased... when that didn't work, I went, I saw some more, I purchased again) but isn't calling 720p "HDTV" a tad misleading?

Not that it seems to matter a whole lot, I just made changed the STB output to 720p and the HDTV broadcast pictures look just as good (maybe it looks better and I'm missing something?)

But I still have that "normal = squished" and "wide=4:3" issue that I started with.

Thanks,

--PS

Originally posted by arungupta
I don't know this box, so maybe someone else with the same box can help you.



So, is what I'm describing really some kind of "problem" ? Should it not in fact be working this way? Should "normal" = 4:3 and "wide" = 16:9 ? Is that the way it's supposed to work?

--PS

Originally posted by driver49
Is that right? I feel misled. I thought the native resolution was 1080i. Is the native resolution for ANY HDTV really 1080i? Isn't 1080i REAL HDTV ? I thought 720p is "Enhanced Definition" - EDTV.

I could be all wrong about this, it's not like my research was compehensive (I went, I saw, I purchased... when that didn't work, I went, I saw some more, I purchased again) but isn't calling 720p "HDTV" a tad misleading?


Both 720p and 1080i are HDTV, less than that in ATSC is EDTV.

Not sure why you feel misled... anyone that told you that 720p was not a valid HDTV resolution was full of feces. Currently there are 18 different ATSC "standards" that qualify as DTV (if I recall correctly, which I might not be). Both 1080i and 720p are official HDTV resolutions. EDTV is a term usually used for anything that is greater than 480i and is NOT 720p or 1080i.

If your box was outputting 1080i to the DLP, the DLP was using it's Faroudja processor to side-convert it to 720p to be correctly displayed. This should not have effected the Normal/Wide issues you are seeing.

Later,
Jeff


Originally posted by driver49
Is that right? I feel misled. I thought the native resolution was 1080i. Is the native resolution for ANY HDTV really 1080i? Isn't 1080i REAL HDTV ? I thought 720p is "Enhanced Definition" - EDTV.

I could be all wrong about this, it's not like my research was compehensive (I went, I saw, I purchased... when that didn't work, I went, I saw some more, I purchased again) but isn't calling 720p "HDTV" a tad misleading?

Not that it seems to matter a whole lot, I just made changed the STB output to 720p and the HDTV broadcast pictures look just as good (maybe it looks better and I'm missing something?)

But I still have that "normal = squished" and "wide=4:3" issue that I started with.

Thanks,

--PS

Originally posted by danroliver
Both 720p and 1080i are HDTV, less than that in ATSC is EDTV.

Thanks for the clarification. I feel better now. Except that I still wonder how anybody keeps all this stuff straight.

It was easier when it was just "TV" or.... "radio."

--PS

So, I assume you want to stretch 4:3 material from your STB to fill the screen. To do this, I think you need to use a SVideo cable and select this input when watching 4:3 material. The Samsung stretch modes will then be available.

TV Signals: HDTV can be 720p, 1080i or 1080p. Currently broadcasters have selected between 720p and 1080i. SDTV is 480i. EDTV is 480p. The number refers to lines of resolution, the letter indicates whether it is progressive or interlaced.

TVs: Almost all digital HDTV's (including DLP) have 1280x720 or similar native resolution. Toshiba LCoS with 1920x1080 native resolution is an exception, but it is not currently shipping. TV's accept all of above signals and scale them up and down to the native resolution.

There is considerable debate whether a 720p or 1080i broadcast is better. In 720p, the resolution is lower but there is no interlacing. In 1080i, the resolution is higher, but it is interlaced. 1080p is of course the best, but that is out in the future.

In any case, your TV resolution is 1280x720. For optimum results you should connect using 720p, otherwise you are causing unnecessary scaling of the signal.

Who misled you?

Originally posted by driver49
Is that right? I feel misled. I thought the native resolution was 1080i. Is the native resolution for ANY HDTV really 1080i? Isn't 1080i REAL HDTV ? I thought 720p is "Enhanced Definition" - EDTV.


There are two different types of HD display formats: 1080i and 720p. Both are designated as HDTV by the Advanced Television Systems Committee and the Consumer Electronics Manufacturers Association.

The "i" in 1080i stands for interlaced. This format produces a picture with 1080 horizontal scanning lines; in two interlaced halves. This means 1080i displays have better spatial resolution, and produce a sharper picture when the image is frozen or barely moving (due to the increased number of scanning lines).

The "p" in 720p stands for progressive scanning. This format produces a picture with one full frame of 720 lines at a time. The 720p format has better temporal resolution, and excels at reproducing rapidly moving objects without blurring, thanks to its full-frame progressive scanning. This format is also better at graphics.

Monitors (TV's) with either native resolution will upconvert or downconvert the incoming signal to the native display, so either format can be viewed. However, source material that matches the native resolution typically looks better.

-John

Originally posted by arungupta
1080p is of course the best, but that is out in the future.

1080p will be the BOMB!

Originally posted by Iceblade
Not sure why you feel misled... anyone that told you that 720p was not a valid HDTV resolution was full of feces.

Actually, I think I was the one misleading myself in this instance. I thought real HDTV was 1080i, and when I found out there is also 720p, I concluded that must be that spec for "EDTV." Shows you what I know... but boy, I sure learn a lot hanging around these forums.

Thanks,

--PS

The reason you can not resize a digital OTA HD broadcast is as follows; The tv broadcast is being delivered in a 16x9 digital format and the 4x3 aspect ratio is being set by the broadcasting station, sometimes they will add grey bars on each side. In essence, they are sending you a 16x9 image with the 4x3 image in the center and nothing on the outer edges. When you switch to normal it will shrink the 16x9 image, thus making the 4x3 image in the center appear "thinner".
This is entirely different then sending the TV a 4x3 native image, such as SD OTA or DVD. If you use the svideo or any other 480I input you will not be taking advantage of the digital signal, and it will be a 480I or 480P in the case of dvd progressive scan, vs the native digital broadcast resolution. Some of the digital stations such a FOX (who is not broadcasting in HD yet), are enlarging the 4x3 image to make it appear to "almost " be a 16x9 aspect ratio. It is still only a 480I resolution image that is enlarged. You can verify this when the logo come on or other print at the bottom is partially cut off.

New York Times magazine this sunday, November 16, has a special section on home electronics -- pages 65-82. Samsung DLP TV is the only prominently featured TV in this section.

Some quotes (pages 77-78):

"Samsung HLN - the hottest selling large screen display"

"..TI digital light processing technology. These chips run the hottest selling large screen display for sale, Samsung's HLN line. According to David Kaplan, a vice president of OneCall.com, a big online electronics retailer based in Spokane, sales of the Samsung sets caught everyone by surpirse, and no one has been able to get enough.

So nice you had to say it twice! :D

Originally posted by leesweet
So nice you had to say it twice! :D
The posting took forever -- I must have hit submit a few times. I am happy to see it only posted twice - I can only imagine your remark otherwise.;)

Yeah, that was a pun on the NYC slogan... and you deleted your dupe,, incase people wonder what the heck I'm talking about! :D

http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/n/newyorknewyorksogoodtheynamedittwice.html

Arun,
I have the 56" DLP and Bravo D1. DO you, or does any one, know:

Will the Samsung 931 DVD player strech ( as opposed to zoom) 4:3 material when using the DVI output. The D1 will zoom and does not strech 4:3 material over DVI, and once it gets to the TV ithe only aspect choices in DVI mode are Wide and PC, hence I still have my "old" XP-30 for that.

Thanks,
Mark

The Samsung 931 over DVI tricks the TV into thinking that 4*3 material is 16*9 so the set defaults to "wide" mode. In "wide" mode the 4*3 image is stretched horizontally which causes object to look very fat.

bump

bump

Fellow Samsung DLP owners, I just had my VOOM DBS service installed today.

WOW!!! 25 channels of HD with excellent picture quality on my Samsung set. I will NEVER be able to watch movies, sports or discovery type programs in SD again (with the exception of DVD's).

And it is only going to get better - with 14 more HD channels to be added in the next few months for a total of 39 HD channels (See my signature). I'd consider VOOM still to be in a sort of beta test phase. The first installations were on November 4. Considering how new it is, it seems to work reasonably well and I expect the minor kinks in the box and the service will get fixed soon.

Initial cost for one room including installation is $750 (2 room $1250), but there is a money back guarantee till 3/31/04. The programming is also free till 3/31/04. After that a basic package with ~25 HD channels + SD channels is $39..95 - you can add premium services on top of that. The installation includes an OTA antenna.

For the time being, I am also keeping my DirecTV service, but cutting my bill from $90 to $40/month.

I really recommend this to Samsung DLP owners -- great retiurn on your investment IMHO. At this time, you should only consider it as an adjunct to your regular cable/satellite service.

Even though Sears sells this service, they do such a poor job that it is proabably a waste of your time to check it out there.

www.voom.com
1-800-GET-VOOM

There are numerous threads in the HDTV programming form. Search for VOOM.

Installation is $795??? That'll buy a LOT of DVDs....

Maybe when they knock the "7" off...and there's an HD DVR so I can record all that stuff and watch it at my leisure...

--PS

Originally posted by arungupta
Fellow Samsung DLP owners, I just had my VOOM DBS service installed today.

WOW!!! 25 channels of HD with excellent picture quality on my Samsung set. I will NEVER be able to watch movies, sports or discovery type programs in SD again (with the exception of DVD's).

And it is only going to get better - with 14 more HD channels to be added in the next few months for a total of 39 HD channels (See my signature). I'd consider VOOM still to be in a sort of beta test phase. The first installations were on November 4. Considering how new it is, it seems to work reasonably well and I expect the minor kinks in the box and the service will get fixed soon.

Installation of one box costs $795, but there is a money back guarantee till 3/31/04. The programming is also free till 3/31/04. After that a basic package with ~25 HD channels + SD channels is $39..95 - you can add premium services on top of that.

For the time being, I am also keeping my DirecTV service, but cutting my bill from $90 to $40/month.

I really recommend this to Samsung DLP owners -- great retiurn on your investment IMHO. At this time, you should only consider it as an adjunct to your regular cable/satellite service.

Even though Sears sells this service, they do such a poor job that it is proabably a waste of your time to check it out there.

www.voom.com
1-800-GET-VOOM

There are numerous threads in the HDTV programming form. Search for VOOM.



Arun,

I would run out today and get the service, but the one thing that is holding my back is the MSG channel. Have you heard if they will put MSG on the service?

I with Driver. Id be all over this if they had an HD PVR

Have just about settled on a hln467w until I saw/read/heard about the rca scenium's and ensuing 720p debate which eliminated that set. I'm concerned about the lack of ethernet port(s) on the sammy though (which RCA had). I can deal w/ getting a dvi switch to take care of the single input, but will I be sorry next year or two and have a $$ TV w/ no ethernet port. Do I have to continue waiting for the 'perfect' set. What would I potentially be missing?? any help? thanks.

Originally posted by tyottx2
Have just about settled on a hln467w until I saw/read/heard about the rca scenium's and ensuing 720p debate which eliminated that set.
Which "720p debate" caused second thoughts for you concerning the HLN467?

Originally posted by tyottx2
Have just about settled on a hln467w until I saw/read/heard about the rca scenium's and ensuing 720p debate which eliminated that set. I'm concerned about the lack of ethernet port(s) on the sammy though (which RCA had). I can deal w/ getting a dvi switch to take care of the single input, but will I be sorry next year or two and have a $$ TV w/ no ethernet port. Do I have to continue waiting for the 'perfect' set. What would I potentially be missing?? any help? thanks.
The TV doesn't really need an Ethernet port, You can get plenty of boxes with Ethernet ports that act as media players and feed the TV. Dozens are available today. Any HTPC also acts as one. I am waiting for the first such "networked media player" that has DVI output to the TV.

I'm pretty sure it was on this forum. An extensive speculation/debate b4 the TV came out that said it does not display in its native 720 resolution but up/down converts whatever signal it receives allowing for potential loss of quality (not that i would probably notice as a novice, but it seemed strange to me). I'm also somewhat concerned w/ an xbox connection which i thought i also read could be an issue w/ the scenium. I think that TV also had excessive fan noise, and it's a little bigger than i'm looking for.

ht,

I think i may have been unclear. I was referring to a 720 speculation on a rca thread not the sammy. I'm still very interested in the sammy but was just concerned about no ethernet.

arun,

where would I plug the media player into (w/ ethernet connection) if needed on the back of the sammy. thanks again for the input/help.

Originally posted by tyottx2
ht,

I think i may have been unclear. I was referring to a 720 speculation on a rca thread not the sammy. I'm still very interested in the sammy but was just concerned about no ethernet.
OK. I understand now. I would use a HTPC or the "media box" Arun is refering to for an Ethernet connection.

I think I remember someone being disappointed in the RCA set's Internet performance. I can't rememver why.

I had thought it was said that it couldn't play video or streaming media. No internal hard drive?

As a newbie to any type of forum, I happened across AV in trying to review TV's to make a new purchase. I began a thread in this forum with limited feedback. So, I'm hoping that someone who regularly responds to this thread can help. On the other thread I began I sought advice in comparing a 42" Sony LCD, a 42" Sammy CLP and a Sony 34" direct view CRT ('cause my cabinet maxes out with the 42"). Also, please keep in mind that the room where this TV will live is a well-lit sunroom, although 70% of viewing is at night. Here's what I last posted to the other thread.

I've now begun to broaden my candidates to include the Samsung DLP - HLN4365W for a little more $$ than the Sony LCD (42WE610).

In one store, I saw the Sony and Sammy side-by-side. The Sammy had a sharper picture (edges not subject to as much blending on one Sony setting and, yet, on the other hand or maybe it was another Sony setting, the Sammy didn't suffer from as much noticable pixelization which, in my terms, means the Sammy had solid edges on lettering, rather than jagged edges), and the DLP didn't seem to suffer from what I can only describe as a lack of accurate picture resolution where there was motion or panning. Actually, my wife first noticed this as a problem on the Sony LCD and said it would bother her (I think that means, "ouch", no Sony LCD).

I've read a lot of comments on the DLP (taken most of the day to read other threads on the Sammy). As for PQ, they mostly describe green tone problems and dithering (whatever that is) but I don't think I witnessed them in the set on display. I also saw comments that the DLP had better blacks and shading but I'm not sure I saw those differences either. There are also comments on noise from the spinning mirrors or color wheel, but I didn't hear that in the superstore.

Are my comments accurate on differences between the Sony and the Sammy? 'Cause, I'm wondering if the extra 20% screen size in the DLP is worth the gain over what I sense is, almost always better PQ, in the 34" direct-view (ie. Sony 510).

Hope you all can help. This buying decision is almost driving me off the wall, particularly because I'm looking at this purchase lasting 7-10 years before I hit the market again (as another old TV will hit the storage room, I'll soon qualify to open a used TV shop).

BTW, I do have "big screen" in my basement with a 5 yr. old Sharp overhead projector giving me the equivalent of a 102" screen, although not the quality of today's LCD or DLP.

Originally posted by HuntzHD
I had thought it was said that it couldn't play video or streaming media. No internal hard drive?
That sounds right.

Originally posted by tyottx2
arun,

where would I plug the media player into (w/ ethernet connection) if needed on the back of the sammy. thanks again for the input/help.
Early Media players on the market (e.g. Prismiq) have S-video and composite outputs. More recently, players with Component and VGA connections (e. g. Roku) have come out. Sammy supports all of these connections.

I am holding out until a media player has these characteristics:
- Option of wired or wi-fi (802.11 g) Ethernet connections
- Ability to play a wide variety of Video, Audio and picture media
- DVI and component outputs
- ~$300
- Slim form factor

I think we are probably 6-12 months from having such a player. It is quite likely that a DVD playback will also be included in this box.

I use all this functionality today with my Sammy -- from an HTPC. But an HTPC is big, expensive and relatively harder to use.

Originally posted by feddy
[B]I've read a lot of comments on the DLP (taken most of the day to read other threads on the Sammy). As for PQ, they mostly describe green tone problems and dithering (whatever that is) but I don't think I witnessed them in the set on display. I also saw comments that the DLP had better blacks and shading but I'm not sure I saw those differences either. There are also comments on noise from the spinning mirrors or color wheel, but I didn't hear that in the superstore.

Are my comments accurate on differences between the Sony and the Sammy? 'Cause, I'm wondering if the extra 20% screen size in the DLP is worth the gain over what I sense is, almost always better PQ, in the 34" direct-view (ie. Sony 510).
B]
- Dithering is much talked about by some members - I have yet to see it after 10 months of ownership and 2 DLP sets.
- I believe green tone is a calibration issue.
- Some people have reported noticeable color wheel and fan noise. Most others report relatively quite sets. I am not sure how much of the difference is in the set versus the observer. You should check out the noise level in the store, and be comfortable. Then it the set delivered to you has excessive noise, I would get it fixed or replaced.
- DLP has better black levels than LCD, but not as good as CRT. I find DLP levels very acceptable. (I would not recommend an LCD RPTV to anyone because I don't find its black levels acceptable.)
- 34" to 43" is a 60% larger area not 20%. Nevertheless, 34" CRT vs. 43" DLP is a hard and very subjective choice.

In the end though, DLP picture has an OOMPH that I have not seen from any other set, except for high-end HD plasmas that cost several times as much.

arungupta,

Thanks for the feedback. That's the kind of information I was hoping to get and, hopefully, there will be more.

What really hits home is being corrected where you point out that a 42" is actually 60% more screen than the 34". I guess I was feeling more partial to CRT by a misconception that I wasn't looking at a significant increase in size. Now I really need to resolve DLP v. LCD.

Any comments on the moving object remnants - is there consensus that they're more noticable on one than the other?

I have seen no motion artifacts in a DLP that are not present in the original picture, and I have tried hard to find them. Some people have reported seeing motion artifacts in a DLP, but I'm not sure if they have confirmed that the artifacts are not in the original, for example caused by mpeg compression.

On a related note, if you see reports of colorbanding or clayfaces, I have been able to isolate their cause - they result from picture degradation caused by a component connection, and go aIway when you use a DVI or VGA connection. That is one reason I strongly advise members to move from component to DVI. See "Testing..." thread in my signature.

To be sure though, maybe you should try to see DLP along with other sets in a store setup and see if you can spot motion artifacts in DLP, that don't exist in other sets.

I think that's great advice Arun.

Personally, I've vowed to never buy the 'first' generation of anything that costs more than $1,000. This is a fairly new "life rule", and one that I came up with after purchasing my first DLP... the HLM617W. Now I recommend always waiting for the 2nd crop.

With that said, if you are leaning towards the LCD after all of your research, I would wait for the 2nd batch of TV's before purchasing. Oh, and buy the TV locally, and get an extended warranty.

Use the DLP's as an example of 1st generation vs. later generations... the DLP's available now are light-years better than what was delivered to my house last March.

Let's see if they put an HD tuner and firewire in the next generations sets !

Originally posted by Peccavi
Let's see if they put an HD tuner and firewire in the next generations sets !

HLN619W is purported to include a HD tuner.

Google for it...

(sorry, I can't link the text due to forum restrictions on new posters)

Originally posted by arungupta
On a related note, if you see reports of colorbanding or clayfaces, I have been able to isolate their cause - they result from picture degradation caused by a component connection, and go aIway when you use a DVI or VGA connection. That is one reason I strongly advise members to move from component to DVI. See "Testing..." thread in my signature.



Not true........I use an HD Satelitte receiver via VGA and I see colorbanding frequently. I'm not saying that it's not a result of the source, however simply using DVI or VGA does not fix the issue.

Has anyone noyiced that if you use component 2 or 3 and turn the color all the way down to zero, the image still has color? It doesn't go B&W like S-video or composite input.

On another note, does anyone know if the DVI on the current HLN sets are compatible with the HDMI or HDCP future ?

Originally posted by Dean Martin
...
On another note, does anyone know if the DVI on the current HLN sets are compatible with the HDMI or HDCP future ?
It's fully HDCP compatible.

Kirill

Hi Guys,

I have some questions about the HLN617W. I don't own one, but I've
checked it out and I think it has everything I want. But ...

1) In the store, when they switched from an HD signal to an SD (analog)
signal, it was terrible. The the (originally) 4:3 image was "stretched" to
fit in the letterbox format. Can that be fixed? I asked the guys at the
store, and the reply was basically "live with it".

2) Is VGA the best resolution possible for the PC input?

TIA

Originally posted by tennis
1) In the store, when they switched from an HD signal to an SD (analog)
signal, it was terrible. The the (originally) 4:3 image was "stretched" to
fit in the letterbox format. Can that be fixed? I asked the guys at the
store, and the reply was basically "live with it".
TIA
If you set aspect mode to normal then SD will remain in it's original 4x3 aspect ratio. The salesman was ignorant of this fact. I wonder what else he doesn't know. :rolleyes:

SD is going to look worse for several reasons but looking at it in "wide" mode which is correct for HD material is the worse possible combination.

SD is going to look worse for several reasons but looking at it in "wide" mode which is correct for HD material is the worse possible combination.

Great!

So, I _should_ be able to switch from an SD signal to an HD signal, because
I'm changing channels for example, and everything should be in the best
format the signal needs?

Originally posted by tennis
[B]

Great!

So, I _should_ be able to switch from an SD signal to an HD signal, because
I'm changing channels for example, and everything should be in the best
format the signal needs?

If you are watching HD material your TV should be in "Wide" aspect mode. If you change to a SD channel you should also change your aspect mode to "Normal".

If you don't like having black bars you can use the Panoramic aspect mode which stretches the sides more than the center.

Is the Unofficial Guide still available? I haven't been able to get access to the download site.

Originally posted by htwaits
If you don't like having black bars you can use the Panoramic aspect mode which stretches the sides more than the center.

Thanks for pointing that out, but nah, the black bars don't matter to me. I'm one of those people who don't mind "letterbox" stuff on normal TV's. :D

Just wanna make sure I can switch between the 4:3/16:9 worlds and have no ill effects.

Which brings up another point. If I watch say, 60% 4:3 programming, and 40% 16:9 programming, there shouldn't be any "burn in" or other screen artifacts?

I've read on the forum/FAQ that there shouldn't be, but since many of those posts are old now, I wanted to make sure that nothing's happened in the months since then. The possible 5k expenditure makes me paranoid. ;)

TIA,
-Tennis

DLPs are basically immune to burn-in, so don't worry about it...

Originally posted by philmatz
HLN619W is purported to include a HD tuner.

Google for it...

(sorry, I can't link the text due to forum restrictions on new posters)
Do you know whether the HLN619W is expected to have a comparable 50" model?

Instead on an HD Tuner I'd rather have 2 DVI inputs, but that's probably b/c I intend to buy the HD DirecTiVo when it comes out so the built in tuner isn't really a plus (unless it included DirecTV and a PVR, which I'm sure it won't).

Originally posted by lmychajluk
DLPs are basically immune to burn-in, so don't worry about it...

Just bought my first samsung DLP and I love it, but there was one thing that bothered me initially, but has since become moot, but this post brought it to my attention again.

In areas that were playing a vivid still scene and then turn black, there is a ghost of the previous image on there that you can see. It's not a problem for me because I usually don't watch still scenes. The only place where it stands out noticably(you have to look for it)when watching a widescreen movie and the black bars above and below, you can still see the faint image that was on there previously.

Not really bothersome, especially considering the out of this world PQ that you can get by just tweaking the User Menu a bit.

Was originally going to demo this model and then the Sony GWIII in home, but I honestly am thinking about just keeping the sammy and not even trying out the GWIII, as I don't think I can improve upon the picture that i'm seeing now.

The only thing that is making ponder this, is price, as there's almost a $700 MSRP gap between the two.

Choices, choices.

Interesting observation about the ghost image. I've never noticed it myself, and can't think of any way this could happen with DLP technology. On a phospor-based set, I can see how the phosphors remain 'charged' for a bit longer than neccessary, but on the DLP chip, it should take 1/1024th of a second to turn the mirror to the 'off' position to produce 'black'. Has anyone else noticed this, or at least explain how it theoretically can happen?

I just made arrangements to pick up a used HLM437W.
Is there any thing I should be looking for to insure its ok?

Originally posted by lmychajluk
Interesting observation about the ghost image. I've never noticed it myself, and can't think of any way this could happen with DLP technology. On a phospor-based set, I can see how the phosphors remain 'charged' for a bit longer than neccessary, but on the DLP chip, it should take 1/1024th of a second to turn the mirror to the 'off' position to produce 'black'. Has anyone else noticed this, or at least explain how it theoretically can happen?

I noticed this effect for the first time myself the other day. During an ad where text was displayed on a solid color background, when the text was quickly turned off, a ghost image of the text persisted for about one second or so. Of course I cannot be sure that this "effect" was not intended in the source material. I did not appear to be a fade effect but it could have been.

Originally posted by liquidh2o
In areas that were playing a vivid still scene and then turn black, there is a ghost of the previous image on there that you can see. It's not a problem for me because I usually don't watch still scenes. The only place where it stands out noticably(you have to look for it)when watching a widescreen movie and the black bars above and below, you can still see the faint image that was on there previously.

Sounds like the physiological Persistance of Vision effect, where an image projected on the retina continues to be seen (and fades away) for a few seconds after it's removed. This is fundamental to how the flashing images in TV/movies are perceived as continuous.

Its easy to try this yourself. In a dark room look at a bright object. Then close/cover your eyes and you continue to see the object for a few seconds as it fades away.

OK, I understand that, but I was wondering if there was a technological reason that this might be happening on the TV itself.

Find Samsung Firmware Version:

The firmware version installed on any set is recorded on the first page of the SM. There is a long ID number at the bottom of the page. The last three digits are the firmware version of your set.

Remember that in any dealing with Samsung you are not supposed to know your firmware version.

Instructions for accessing the Samsung Service Menu:

Anyone using these suggestions should know that I am passing on the wisdom of others and that I have no personal knowledge of the Samsung DLP TVs. I'm still waiting.

On the other hand I can recommend, without any reservations, recording all original SM settings before making changes.

****** Thanks to LCH for a clearer explanation than the one I wrote. 09/02/2003 ******

Turn Melody off in the user menu (allows entering the Service Menu from power On state without using a lamp cycle).

With the set ON, press Power-Mute-1-8-2-Power in quick succession.
(If the set is already off, just do Mute-1-8-2-Power )

The service menu should appear for the input you were viewing before keying the above sequence. Be sure to give the set enough time to complete the process(30-60 seconds).

While in the service menu, you can change inputs with the TV/Video button to view the SM for other modes.

Use the CH up, CH down & select keys to navigate the Service Menu. Press MENU to return to the main Service Menu after viewing individual functions.

Later, you will use the VOL(+) & VOL(-) keys to change the SM values.

To Exit the SM, power off. Leave it off for several(30) seconds. (until all cooling activity is complete)

Yesterday I was sitting on the floor in front of my HLN 567 inserting a DVD when I looked up at the set and saw some horrible internal reflections! I mean the set looks great when I'm sitting on the couch 12 feet away, but I don't know if I can live with this obvious defect.

I went into SM and turned S_CT and S_BR to 0 and that seemed to cure the problem... but now I can't see any picture from my couch.

Does anyone else have this problem? Should I call Samsung and complain?

...sarcasm people... I've got a head cold, I'm grumpy and having nothing to do but wait for my new DVD player (Samsung HD931) to come in.

I noticed that my DLP was too bright, so I turned the power off. That cured the brightness problem, but I can't get a picture now. Maybe I should call Samsung and complain too. :rolleyes:

Arungupta and others: I hope you can help me with my problems. I hooked up my new HLN567W to Sony HD300 via DVI. I have OTA and DTV HD. The HD pictures are stunning. However, when I switch to SD chanels from DTV there is a white blinging line at the top edge of the picture. The thickness of this line range from 2 mm to 4 mm. When I switched to component 3, this line disappeared. So the problem seems to be isolated to SD channels from DTV with DVI and not OTA and no problems with HD. Any suggestion? I am arranging for a service call from Tweeter.
The Samsung is set at 720p. Also while the HD is stunning, the SD picture is quite bad. My old 45 inch RPTV connected to the same source actually looks better. I have not make any adjustments yet, everything is out of the box. Did I do something wrong?

Originally posted by umab89
Did I do something wrong?
No but there may be a better option than the one you are using.

You might try connecting your HD300 to DVI and SVideo. Then you could switch to SVideo input when you want to watch SD TV. You could also try splitting the input cable with one branch to the HD300 and the other into the Samsung's Ant. input. If you do use a splitter be sure it is "broadband".

Your DVI input is exposing the flaws of SD TV.

Have you read Arun's guide? I think he may have some suggestions for SD TV setups there.

I think you have more of a setup problem than a service call situation.

Originally posted by umab89
Arungupta and others: I hope you can help me with my problems. I hooked up my new HLN567W to Sony HD300 via DVI. I have OTA and DTV HD. The HD pictures are stunning. However, when I switch to SD chanels from DTV there is a white blinging line at the top edge of the picture. The thickness of this line range from 2 mm to 4 mm. When I switched to component 3, this line disappeared. So the problem seems to be isolated to SD channels from DTV with DVI and not OTA and no problems with HD. Any suggestion? I am arranging for a service call from Tweeter.
The Samsung is set at 720p. Also while the HD is stunning, the SD picture is quite bad. My old 45 inch RPTV connected to the same source actually looks better. I have not make any adjustments yet, everything is out of the box. Did I do something wrong?
The scan line is probably there in all modes, it is only a question of whether overscan hides it.

In the DVI case, Was your aspect ratio TV wide or PC wide? If you use TV-wide, the overscan should hide the line. Indeed, that is one of the reasons TV's have overscan.

Regarding DirecTV SD picture quality, I have a similar setup except my receiver is Samsung SIR TS160. I find that SD picture quality ranges from good to poor depending on channel and program, but that is acceptable for most programs. You 45 inch RPTV may be better in this case because it maybe blurring the flaws, whereas Samsung is more revealing of the flaws in SD.

Does your Sony HD300 have a variable resolution mode? -- i.e. it passes the signal as is without any deinterlacing and scaling. If it does, you may want to try that and let Samsung DLP do the deinterlacing and scaling to see if the PQ is improved.

Originally posted by tennis
1) In the store, when they switched from an HD signal to an SD (analog)
signal, it was terrible. The the (originally) 4:3 image was "stretched" to
fit in the letterbox format. Can that be fixed? I asked the guys at the
store, and the reply was basically "live with it".

On the DVI input for my HLN5065W, which goes to a HD931 DVD player, the only TV modes are "Wide" and "PC Wide." I cannot view a 4:3 image without it being stretched.

The "Standard" mode is available to me on the other inputs, such as a RF cable for cable TV, or component cable input, so I can watch 4:3 TV signals over the RF cable with no problem. If I wish to watch a 4:3 DVD, like a Buffy episode or old movie, I can't use DVI and have to use a component input and watch it at 480i or 480p.

When I do this I do get a normal unstretched image but I see a lot of weird artifacts and jumpiness in the picture. Not sure what is causing this. I have not tested other DVDs, just seen it with Buffy TV episodes. Actually now that I think about it I watched a non-anamorphic "Midsummer Night's Dream" both regular and zoomed and don't recall these weird artifacts, maybe it is specific to the Buffy discs. I will probably experiment to see. It is most noticeable when I have subtitles turned on.

I also notice in 4:3 mode the picture is not exactly centered; the black bar on the left is larger than the one on the right, and if I zoom, I lose a little of the picture on the right but none on the left. I have not noticed any centering problems when viewing an anamorphic widescreen image using DVI, nor have I noticed any artifacts when using subtitles.

Originally posted by chuft
On the DVI input for my HLN5065W, which goes to a HD931 DVD player, the only TV modes are "Wide" and "PC Wide." I cannot view a 4:3 image without it being stretched.


Arun, is that typical with DVI, everything is stretched to 16:9? That seems to be a big minus to watch TV with DVI because at this time most programming is 4:3.

Thanks for the quick reply , Arungupta and htwaits. I will try your recommendations. I called Tweeter and they referred me to a technician. They wanted to come over 2 days from now, but I have to schedule them a week from now because of work. They think the thin white blinking line may be due to alignment issue and they will look into it next week. I will post another message then. Thanks again.
Also Arun, my HD300 is set at 720p out for all incoming signals. I will try the "native mode" on my HD300. It will pass whatever format in its native form to the TV.

Originally posted by Sea Ray
Arun, is that typical with DVI, everything is stretched to 16:9? That seems to be a big minus to watch TV with DVI because at this time most programming is 4:3.
The stretching is being done by Samsung HD931 player - not the TV. By the time it comes to the TV, the damage is already done. This is a known issue with Samsung HD931. I use Bravo D1 instead, which doesn't stretch 4:3 material.

Originally posted by umab89
Thanks for the quick reply , Arungupta and htwaits. I will try your recommendations. I called Tweeter and they referred me to a technician. They wanted to come over 2 days from now, but I have to schedule them a week from now because of work. They think the thin white blinking line may be due to alignment issue and they will look into it next week. I will post another message then. Thanks again.
Also Arun, my HD300 is set at 720p out for all incoming signals. I will try the "native mode" on my HD300. It will pass whatever format in its native form to the TV.
I don't believe they can do anything for the white line.

It is NOT being generated by the TV, but by your Sony receiver. This line issue is common to many receivers. My Samsung SIR-TS160 also has it for some programs. I believe it is actually present in the original signal, probably somehow related to the vertical retrace.

Selecting the wide mode may be your only remedy.

OK, but with regard to DVI with your Zoom box or whatever, can you watch SD or digital shows in 4:3 using DVI?

Originally posted by Sea Ray
Arun, is that typical with DVI, everything is stretched to 16:9? That seems to be a big minus to watch TV with DVI because at this time most programming is 4:3.
I believe you can add a component connection to Component 1 and switch to that when you want to watch 4x3 or Letterbox material.

Check here for some long winded examples. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=328207)

HI,

I am looking for a good DVI Switch ( 2 source to one display ).

Which one would you recommend. After going thru many postings I came across 2 models 1.) Pacific Cables and 2.) Guifen ( spell?.

Are there any other ones available?

Please advise.

Thanks.

KE

It looks like Gefen and Pacific Cable are the main contenders for the DVI switching business for no - I am providing a little comparison chart here:

Gefen 4x1 HDTV Switcher - $349
- Currently shipping
- Includes infrared RMT-4IR remote control
- Includes four 6 ft DVI cables (~$100 value)
- DVI-I (which means it switches both digital and analog)
- HDCP Compliant
- Video Amplifier Bandwidth: 1.65 GHz
- Single Link Resolution Range: Up to 1920 x 1200 and 1080I
- Vertical Frequency Range: 60-85 Hz
- Power : 15 Watts (max.), 5V DC 1A
- Dimensions: 6"W x 1"H x 4.7"D

Pacific Cable 4x1 DVI Switch DS-41R - $399
- Initial shipments started 11/24/03
- Includes Infrared remote control
- Does not include any DVI cables - at least it doesn't say so??
- DVI-D - digital only switching
- HDCP Compliant
- Intuitive LED display of video source channels.
- Frequency bandwidth: 1.65 Gbps (Single Link)
- 1600 X 1200 at up to 85Hz, 1920 X 1080 at up to 70Hz
- Power : DC 5V, 2A Adapter included.
- Dimensions (W X D X H): 6.7 X 4.75 X 1.2 Inches

Pacific Cable also has a 2 port switch for $215.

Assuming they work equally well, it seems that Pacific cable costs about $150 more ($50 higher price, $100 alllowance for DVI cables.)

Based on this analysis, I have placed my order for the Gefen switch - should arrive tomorrow. I am going to post my experience with Gefen soon. Meanwhile, if anyone has a chance to try out the Pacific Cable switch, please share your experience.

Originally posted by htwaits
I believe you can add a component connection to Component 1 and switch to that when you want to watch 4x3 or Letterbox material.

Les, So HD931 doesn't stretch 4:3 material through component output?

Originally posted by Sea Ray
OK, but with regard to DVI with your Zoom box or whatever, can you watch SD or digital shows in 4:3 using DVI?
Sorry, but I didn't understand your question. Could you clarify.

I watch SD in 4:3 without stretching, using DVI from these sources:
- Bravo D1 player
- HTPC with Zoomplayer software
- DirecTV using SIR-TS160 receiver
- VOOM using its receiver

Originally posted by arungupta
The stretching is being done by Samsung HD931 player - not the TV. By the time it comes to the TV, the damage is already done. This is a known issue with Samsung HD931. I use Bravo D1 instead, which doesn't stretch 4:3 material.

Well, it says right in the manual for the TV (which is the same manual for a lot of the Samsung DLP models - check page 58) that in 720p DVI mode, only the "Wide" and "PC Wide" aspects are available, so I don't think it has anything to do with the DVD player. It also says in 1080i DVI mode the aspect cannot be changed at all.

It also says "Normal" aspect is available in 480p DVI mode, which I had not noticed before. I decided to try an experiment and put a Buffy 4:3 DVD in, and switched the DVD player's DVI output to 480p mode. What I got was an exact pixel mapping of the 640 by 480 pixel image smack in the middle of the 1280 by 720 pixel screen, with black bars on all sides (note this a fullscreen, not a letterbox, DVD image). This is not the image I get using the "Normal" aspect using component inputs and the DVD player's Progressive Scan 480p mode, which is blown up to fill the screen vertically and then expanded sideways to maintain the 4:3 proportion, in what I calculate ends up being a 960 by 720 pixel image area, with black bars on the sides.

Here is a quote from "Bravo D1 vs. Samsung 931 shoot-out" - 1st post
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2217468#post2217468

One big problem is the 931 will stretch all 4:3 or non-anamorphic material to full (Older disks that are wide-screen and not Enhanced for 16:9). There is no way to defeat this! That's horrible. The D1 will display 4:3 in the center with black bars at the sides. If you watch a lot of 4:3 material, this could be a huge problem.
With Samsung DLP, in 720p resolution/DVI mode, the aspects labeled "wide" and "pc-wide" are misnomers. Here is what they mean:

Wide: The TV outputs the pixels exactly as received - no scaling/zooming, or stretching. In this mode, the TV overscans a few pixels on all sides.

PC-wide: The TV scales down the image - by about 10% I would say. This is so that you can use it as a PC monitor and not have any overscan.

In 480p resolution/DVI mode, the "normal" aspect means that TV is not doing any scaling - pixels show up in the center of the screen.

They need to get better names for these aspects.

Originally posted by chuft
Well, it says right in the manual for the TV (which is the same manual for a lot of the Samsung DLP models - check page 58) that in 720p DVI mode, only the "Wide" and "PC Wide" aspects are available, so I don't think it has anything to do with the DVD player. It also says in 1080i DVI mode the aspect cannot be changed at all.


Yes, this is why you need DVI sources with their own aspect control.

That's why the good old RP91 was popular with Mitsu (and other RPTV) owners .. the rptv would lock into wide mode when it was fed a progressive scan signal. Similar thing here. You need aspect ratio control on the source for the DVI inputs. The DLP will only display what it is fed, and with the DVI input it is always fed a widescreen 720p or 1080i signal. Go to the source to adjust the aspect ratio. If your source can't do it, get a Bravo D1.

-David

Originally posted by arungupta
Les, So HD931 doesn't stretch 4:3 material through component output?
Right.

At least it didn't for the tests I did writing the "black bar" material.

The following setups produced the correct aspect ratio for the film's theatrical presentation aspect ratio.

I used a Samsung HLN507 with the Samsung HD931 so that I could test each type of DVD transfer.

The HD-931 was connected to DVI and set to 720p. It was also connected to "component one" and progressive mode was turned off.

For Letterbox: HLN507 set to Component 1 (480i from DVD player) and Aspect mode = Zoom1. Zoom1 enlarges the image an equal amount in all four directions.

For Academy Ratio (Standard Version, 4x3): HLN507 set to Component 1 (480i from DVD player) and Aspect mode = Normal.

For Anamorphic Widescreen: HLN507 to DVI (720p from DVD player) and Aspect mode = Wide(TV).

Hi arungupta,

Thanks for your great guide!!! I am looking forward to getting my 46" unit soon I hope! Is it already available in US?

I noticed a small error in your latest 2.1 version of your guide. In the Type of connection to use under the S-Video/Composite section, it states that S-Video is prefereable to Component. Guess it should read Composite instead.

Cheers!
Oliver

The 46" is not as common as the 43" -- for example, Circuit City only has the 43" but I understand some Best Buy's have the 46"... I got my 46" from Tweeter.

--PS

I'm seriously considering a Samsung 50" DLP. However, I've a set of Paradigm Monitor 11 speakers. They're unshielded. When they're too close to a normal TV they impact the image and you can see magnetic effects.

I haven't found anything indicating magnetic effects impacting or not impacting DLP TV's. My readings of DLP make me think that DLP Rear Projection are immune to magnetic speaker effects. Anyone confirm or deny this?

Thanks

Hi,

Yes you can use a non shielded speakers with DLP sets. DLP sets are not effected by the magnetic fields produced by speakers. My speaker is not shielded and is positioned right at the bottom of the screen with the tweeter being 2" away from my HLN5065. I could never do this with my old TV a 27" CRT Sony.

Thanks,
Maziar

Originally posted by Icarus
The DLP will only display what it is fed, and with the DVI input it is always fed a widescreen 720p or 1080i signal.

Well, no, it isn't. The DVI input can accept 480p signals. The HD931 for example can feed a 480p picture through its DVI output, and in Standard aspect on the TV, the picture does not get stretched. It is presented with exact pixel mapping in the middle of the screen with black bars on all four sides, at least with a 4:3 image, as I posted above. If you then change to "Wide" aspect, it stretches the picture sideways and it looks very squashed since it is only 480 pixels tall yet 1280 pixels wide.

I have not tried this yet with an anamorphic widescreen image to see what happens, but then again, I'm not sure why I would want to use 480p through the DVI instead of 720p with an anamorphic widescreen DVD. Still it would be an interesting experiment and I think I will try it when I get home.

Originally posted by arungupta
Sorry, but I didn't understand your question. Could you clarify.

I watch SD in 4:3 without stretching, using DVI from these sources:
- Bravo D1 player
- HTPC with Zoomplayer software
- DirecTV using SIR-TS160 receiver
- VOOM using its receiver

OK, that makes sense. Someone had posted earlier that with DVI Samsung only gives you the option of 16:9 stretched or PC mode and that seemed very limiting to me seeing as most broadcast TV these days is still 4:3.

So I guess my question is does the Samsung DLP give you the option of "normal" aspect while in the DVI mode like it does for component inputs? From the above response I take it that it does. As I'm sure you are aware, with component inputs you have the option of normal and wide. I take it you have the same options with DVI?

One more thing, have you noticed any difference in PQ between the Zoom receiver and the SIR-TS160?

Arun G,

As always a great response on the DVI - Switch. Looking forward for your review on Gefen.

Can you please comment on this situation :

I was planning to use DVI switch to feed my HLN61 from Bravo and the new HD811 receiver from Dish Network. This HD811 receiver sends both HD and analog signals thru DVI-Out. Does this mean that I can not use Pacific Cables DVI-Switch as it only handles digital.

Thanks.

KE

I just started looking for a big TV yesterday, and a friend of mine that is knowledgable about this stuff (and has a front projection TV) recommended I go with a rear projection DLP set. I've narrowed my choices to the Samsung 61", the 56", and the Gateway (because of price, it's still in the running). I also found that Optoma makes a 65", but I have no idea if they sell at any brick and mortar shops so I can look at one and they are more expensive than Samsung and Gateway.

So bear with me while I ask a few questions...any help you all can give would be appreciated.

1. If I go into a local store that carries the Samsung, they're pricing it at several hundred dollars more than it appears I can pay online. That doesn't even take into account the 6.5% MN sales tax I'd have to pay, which I wouldn't pay online. I would pay shipping if I buy online, though I'm guessing I'd also pay a delivery charge if I buy from the store. Am I missing something here?

2. Is there any real difference between the Samsung 61" and 56", aside from the size and the thinner bezel on the 56"?

3. Regarding the Gateway, not only is it priced lower than the Samsung, but in the picture I saw of it, it appears to be free-standing, whereas the optional table to buy with the Samsung costs half a grand. Am I wrong about the Gateway? If not, the cost of the Samsung table should be factored into my cost comparison.

4. Still on the Gateway, my buddy said their TVs are kind of the running joke with the "in the know" big TV crowd. Should I be wary of buying a Gateway TV and pay the extra dollars for the comfort of owning a more experienced TV brand?

5. Anyone know anything about the Optoma, i.e., where I can see one in person, why it's priced higher, etc?

Again, thanks in advance for any help.

As I posted above, with the Samsung DLP, there are three DVI modes:

1080i - you cannot change the picture aspect

720p - you get Wide and PC Wide. With my Samsung "upconverting" DVD player this means 4:3 pictures are zoomed vertically and get stretched sideways (the entire screen is filled). Apparently with the Bravo "upconverting" DVD player they don't but I'm not sure what you do see since I don't own this player.

480p - you get Wide, PC Wide, and Normal. On Normal a 640x480 4:3 image appears in the middle of the screen pixel-for-pixel with black bars on all sides because it is a 1280 by 720 fixed pixel screen. "Wide" stretches a 4:3 picture sideways to fill the entire horizontal length of the screen but the height remains 480 pixels. Not sure what happens if you use an anamorphic widescreen signal.

Note if you use component inputs to watch a 4:3 image, the image is scaled to fill the screen vertically, and then horizonally to maintain the 4:3 ratio, with black bars on the sides.

Originally posted by twentzel
I
1. If I go into a local store that carries the Samsung, they're pricing it at several hundred dollars more than it appears I can pay online. That doesn't even take into account the 6.5% MN sales tax I'd have to pay, which I wouldn't pay online. I would pay shipping if I buy online, though I'm guessing I'd also pay a delivery charge if I buy from the store. Am I missing something here?

3. Regarding the Gateway, not only is it priced lower than the Samsung, but in the picture I saw of it, it appears to be free-standing, whereas the optional table to buy with the Samsung costs half a grand. Am I wrong about the Gateway? If not, the cost of the Samsung table should be factored into my cost comparison.

4. Still on the Gateway, my buddy said their TVs are kind of the running joke with the "in the know" big TV crowd. Should I be wary of buying a Gateway TV and pay the extra dollars for the comfort of owning a more experienced TV brand?

5. Anyone know anything about the Optoma, i.e., where I can see one in person, why it's priced higher, etc?

Again, thanks in advance for any help.

Do not pay for delivery of this thing if you buy it at a retail store. First of all it's not that heavy. Tell them you don't care to pay for shipping. They won't lose the deal on that.

The Samsung should go on any table. It is by definition a tabletop set not a console set. You sure don't have to buy their $500 table.

I have not read much about Gateway sets. Do they make a DLP? What is their warranty? Do they sell an extended warranty? Personally I was most comfortable buying from a retailer (because I could return it w/i 30 days in case there's an issue) and getting a 4 yr extended warranty for $299 which was less than 10% the cost of the TV. That gives me peace of mind. My retailer also gave me a 30 day better price guarantee which I cashed in when he later had a deal where you get a $200 gift card if you buy a big screen. Just last week I received my gift card. So I don't think with TVs it's worth buying over the internet.

Thanks Sea Ray, that's helpful info.

My first DLP had something wrong with the left speaker. Two days later they came and picked it up and delivered a new one. I was glad I bought mine at the store.

Originally posted by chuft
As I posted above, with the Samsung DLP, there are three DVI modes:

1080i - you cannot change the picture aspect

720p - you get Wide and PC Wide. With my Samsung "upconverting" DVD player this means 4:3 pictures are zoomed vertically and get stretched sideways (the entire screen is filled). Apparently with the Bravo "upconverting" DVD player they don't but I'm not sure what you do see since I don't own this player.

480p - you get Wide, PC Wide, and Normal. On Normal a 640x480 4:3 image appears in the middle of the screen pixel-for-pixel with black bars on all sides because it is a 1280 by 720 fixed pixel screen. "Wide" stretches a 4:3 picture sideways to fill the entire horizontal length of the screen but the height remains 480 pixels. Not sure what happens if you use an anamorphic widescreen signal.

Note if you use component inputs to watch a 4:3 image, the image is scaled to fill the screen vertically, and then horizonally to maintain the 4:3 ratio, with black bars on the sides.

So the plot thickens. OK, so on DVI if you are watching a 4:3 unstretched picture it will always have bars on all four sides in effect shrinking the picture you would see if viewing it on component?

Where do you select 480p, 720p or 1080i? On the remote? You need to select that plus your aspect setting for every channel as you channel surf through HD, digital on down to analog stations? Sounds cumbersome

Originally posted by KEPILOT
I was planning to use DVI switch to feed my HLN61 from Bravo and the new HD811 receiver from Dish Network. This HD811 receiver sends both HD and analog signals thru DVI-Out. Does this mean that I can not use Pacific Cables DVI-Switch as it only handles digital.

You can use any switch that supports DVI digital. The output from your HD811 receiver is digital -- even for analog channels.

Originally posted by Sea Ray
So the plot thickens. OK, so on DVI if you are watching a 4:3 unstretched picture it will always have bars on all four sides in effect shrinking the picture you would see if viewing it on component?

Where do you select 480p, 720p or 1080i? On the remote? You need to select that plus your aspect setting for every channel as you channel surf through HD, digital on down to analog stations? Sounds cumbersome
Let me try to clarify the DVI DVD player and 4:3 stetch issue again.

You should only use 720p mode to connect a DVI DVD player to the TV, and you should only use the Wide mode. (PC wide is only when you connect a PC using DVI). Other resolutions will only cause unnecessary scaling. In this DVI/720p mode, the TV is going to display the pixels as they are fed to it - with no stretching, no scaling.

In this DVI/720p mode, stretching is done by your DVD player not by the TV. Ideally you should have a DVD player that should give you the option to stretch or not. Well the current crop of DVI DVD players don't give you that option. Samsung HD931 always stretches 4:3 programs in DVI output, and Bravo D1 never stretches.

So if you like them stretched, buy HD931. If you don't like them stretched, buy Bravo D1. If you want it both ways, build an HTPC, or wait. I don't know how Momitsu or the LG player behave in this regard.

Has anyone heard any speculation on the release of the next generation of Sammy DLP's. I know they finally got (most of) the kinks out of these. I am wondering/assuming the next gen. will have an integrated HD tuner which would help cut down on components and connections. I thought I read about a new 61" model, but haven't heard anything about a 46" ish model?? thanks

Originally posted by arungupta
You can use any switch that supports DVI digital. The output from your HD811 receiver is digital -- even for analog channels.

Arun,

Don't mind my ignorance, does this mean that I can use Pacific Cable's DVI-D switch on HD811 ( for both digital and analog signals ) & Bravo. The reason I am interested in Pacific Cable is due to the availabilty of 2-port model for $230 or so.

THANKS.

KE

KE, Yes you can.

Arun

I posted earlier that when I connect DVI from my Sony HD300 to HLN567W, there is a thin white blinking line with the SD channel from direct tv. When I hit the aspect button on the Samsung remote it showed "pc wide". When I switched back to "tv wide" the white blinking line disappeared!! So that was problem! Also I adjusted the picture using "custom setting" on SD channels, the pictures are much improved now. Thanks for all the assistance, guys.

Hi y'all, I am still trying to decide between Samsung DLP and a 34 inch direct view. I have never liked rear projections because of the viewing angle fadeout, but the DLP seems really bright and clear in the stores with less fading. I have only had CRTs in the past and know they are reliable. But the 34 seems small especially in 4:3. Dlp's have a million mirrors with tiny hinges and a color wheel spinning thousands of RPMs. How reliable to you think these TVs are??? Salesman at BB showed me a 50 inch beside a 43 inch, the blacks on the 50 inch where not as black as the 43 inch, salesman pointed all this out to me without me asking and said it was the color wheel slowing down caused by the set being on 18 hours a day for 4 months. He said he was just being a non-commision salesman. He also said that set will show 1080i and not convert it to 720p. Anyone had or know of any known problems with the Samsung DLPs?? Also anyone seen the 34 inch JVC and if so how did it look??? Thanks

Originally posted by Sea Ray
So the plot thickens. OK, so on DVI if you are watching a 4:3 unstretched picture it will always have bars on all four sides in effect shrinking the picture you would see if viewing it on component?

I don't have a HDTV receiver/tuner. The only thing I use DVI for is DVDs. So my answers are based on my DVD player, which is a Samsung HD931. With this "upconverting" DVD player, using DVI input and 480p mode, it displays it pixel for pixel 640 by 480 in the middle of the black screen with bars on all four sides. Using component input and 480p mode, it displays it at 960 by 720 with black bars on the sides. I have no idea what would happen if a TV signal was coming in that way. I use a RF cable to get regular vanilla analog cable and it displays at 960 by 720 with black bars on the sides unless I stretch it or (for letterboxed shows) zoom it.


Where do you select 480p, 720p or 1080i?

On my DVD player, there are two major buttons on the front. One switches between the three output modes for the DVI port: 480p. 720p. and 1080i. The other toggles between having the component output be 480p or 480i. For some reason, if you turn on progressive scan mode for the component output (480p) it disables any output from the DVI port.

I also use the VGA in port to play computer games. A variety of aspects are available in this mode.

I do not select the resolution, ever, on the TV. There is nowhere to select it. I only select it on the DVD player.


You need to select that plus your aspect setting for every channel as you channel surf through HD, digital on down to analog stations? Sounds cumbersome

No. I don't have HDTV, just regular analog cable coming in through a RF cable. I don't know how a HDTV broadcast would work, frankly. I guess eventually I'll get to find out.


Samsung HD931 always stretches 4:3 programs in DVI output

No. It does not stretch 4:3 programs in 480p DVI output. It outputs them without scaling at exactly 640 by 480 in the middle of a black field of 1280 by 720 pixels. Is this better or worse than viewing it scaled to 960 by 720 using 480p component output? I guess it is personal preference.

Originally posted by pepco
it was the color wheel slowing down caused by the set being on 18 hours a day for 4 months.
That's hilarious.

Since DLP televisions have been out in the front projector market for a few years now, they have established a pretty good track record on reliability.

The black level issue that you saw is just because the two sets are calibrated different. You can adjust the settings to improve the black levels. Still, CRTs have better black levels.

The native resolution of this set is 720p. It will convert 1080i to 720p before display. This is true of all digital TV's today.

Originally posted by pepco
Salesman at BB showed me a 50 inch beside a 43 inch, the blacks on the 50 inch where not as black as the 43 inch, salesman pointed all this out to me without me asking and said it was the color wheel slowing down caused by the set being on 18 hours a day for 4 months.

Nonsense. The first thing to learn is that you are more likely to win the lottery than get good technical information from a BB salesperson. It's likely that the User Menu settings were different on the two sets.

He said he was just being a non-commision salesman. He also said that set will show 1080i and not convert it to 720p.

Impossible.

All DLP TV sets use the same chip form TI that has a resolution of 1280x720 and they all convert everything to 720p before it is displayed.

RCA has cut corners on their DLP sets and won't accept 720p as input, but what ever the input, an RCA still converts to 720p to display that input.

Samsung and other DLP TV manufacturers accept 720p through DVI and display it with out further conversion.

Do some reading and you will be protected from "sales" misinformation from many sources. :D

Originally posted by twentzel

1. If I go into a local store that carries the Samsung, they're pricing it at several hundred dollars more than it appears I can pay online. That doesn't even take into account the 6.5% MN sales tax I'd have to pay, which I wouldn't pay online. I would pay shipping if I buy online, though I'm guessing I'd also pay a delivery charge if I buy from the store. Am I missing something here?


I just purchased a HLN507w from a B&M and got them to price match the lowest online price I could find including shipping and tax, even though the online store would have charged for shipping.

that's great to know...I'll try the same...thanks.

Thanks for the replies, I have been reading and learning about the DLPs and I thought that guy at BB was wrong. I even showed him on the price spec. card under the TV where it said Converts all formats to 720p and he said it would not take a 1080i and make it a 720p, I knew then something was wrong with his info. Anyway, this is make biggest concern, without getting into which is better 720p or 1080i, I understand a little they are kind of the same with one being progressive. When I see a true 1080i HD signal on a CRT direct view, it has that looking out the window effect, I havent seen that WOW effect on a DLP at BB or CC yet, I guess cause they always have that one feed running through it all the time and its not a so called true HD 1080i signal like you would get from some documentary from your local TV station. Will a DLP give me that looking out the window WOW effect with the right true signal or is it the 720p not letting the DLP have that effect on me??? I know 720p is better for motion and 1080i is better for still pictures. I guess I am trying to say would I be missing out on something by having a DLP that will not show 1080i, but converts it to 720p???? I just want that WOW effect that I saw on a CRT direct view on a DLP. Is not having 1080i display a bad thing??? Still learning, Thanks

Both 720p and 1080i can give you the looking out the window effect - this is how I would describe a typical HD program on my TV, esp. sports and discovery type programs.

Thanks Arun, you are leading me towards a Samsung DLP!!!

Is 1080i possible in a DLP? And if so how far down the road is it??

Originally posted by pepco
Thanks Arun, you are leading me towards a Samsung DLP!!!
It has been my best purchase in a while. If you go for it, I hope you will feel the same.

Originally posted by pepco
Is 1080i possible in a DLP? And if so how far down the road is it??
It is not only possible, you can actually see it, just go to your local cinemas and look for a theater equipped with DLP. I saw Finding Nemo in one, and jaw-dropping would be an understatement.

It is called DLP Cinema. It is also available in very high-end professional projectors that you can even bring home.

Originally posted by arungupta
It is called DLP Cinema. It is also available in very high-end professional projectors that you can even bring home.
In violation of all price rules you can get one for your home theater at around $90,000 (nothing else included). :D

That's plus $8k in sales tax in this area. :rolleyes: Now, if I win the lottery ...

The new movie, "Master and Commander" has been released digitally into these digital DLP cinemas. If you can find one playing near your home, I highly recommend it. Follow this link:

http://www.dlp.com/dlp_cinema/dlp_cinema_theater_search.asp

It is playing in a DLP cinema 4 miles from my home, can't wait to see it. Since we got this Samsung DLP at home, moviegoing has not been the same. We always end up comparing the PQ and mostly find that the the one in theater is inferior. So DLP cinema is a real treat.

Arun how would you compare the upconverted 720p signal from your Bravo DVD player to a true HD broadcast? Do you consider the DVD player a worthwhile purchase compared to a regular 480p one? Or is it just hype?

I have no HD signal to compare my HD931 to.

PQ from Bravo D1 is near HD, it has the same clarity but lower resolution. In close up scenes, the difference is very subtle. In panoramic scenes the difference is obvious.

Its PQ is much better than playback from even the best DVD player with component out.

Overall, it is so satisfying that I would rather watch a movie on DVD than on HD - because I can watch it when I want and pause in-between. Until we get HD recording, movie watching on HD requires a commitment.

Originally posted by chuft
Well, no, it isn't. The DVI input can accept 480p signals.

I forgot about 480p. Thanks for the correction.

Anyway, my point is the same here .. for DVI HD input (1080i or 720p) the scaling is always done in the dvd player. Arun summed it very well a few posts before this one.

-David

A few question to all you HLN owners!

1. Any idea if the HLN models supports PAL broadcast? In Singapore our cable and the new digital cable system are all on PAL broadcast. That may be the reason why samsung has not brought this unit into Singapore.

2. The top of the HLN is so slim! So how do you put a center speakers at the top? I have a box type center speakers that currently seats quite beautifully on my 41" RPTV which has a big thick top.

3. Are there Pal to NTSC convertors? Do they degrade the cable broadcast alot? Or should I just wait for Samsung to come out with a new model that supports Pal. Not sure why Pal is not support on DLP models on Samsung yet?

4. Is Optoma 50" DLP RPTV worth a look?

Thanks!
Oliver

Originally posted by arungupta
It is not only possible, you can actually see it, just go to your local cinemas and look for a theater equipped with DLP. I saw Finding Nemo in one, and jaw-dropping would be an understatement.

It is called DLP Cinema. It is also available in very high-end professional projectors that you can even bring home.

I saw Star Wars 2 at a DLP theatre and thought it looked good, but not any better than a good film theatre. I'd bet it is easier to insure a quality presentation with DLP though (vs. film) and I would bet the quality doesn't degrade like film does over time. I would only go out of my way to see a movie in a DLP theatre if it had been out for a significant amount of time and I was reasonably sure the DLP quality would be better than the degraded film quality.

DLP vs. Film PQ depends on a lot of factors -- how well the movie has been mastered for DLP cinema, age of film, quality of film projection, .... Overall though, as studios become better at taking advantage of this new medium, DLP should deliver consistently better quality.

The last 2 films that I saw (Matrix revolutions and another one that my dragged me into -- I don't even remember its name), the film PQ was inferior (poor resolution, focus and contrast) to what I get at home playing a regular DVD through a DVI connection into my Samsung DLP. The DLP Cinema PQ for Finding Nemo was far far better.

This Pixar news release talks about their stance on DLP cinema:

http://corporate.pixar.com/news/20020318-74815.cfm

I am now using the Gefen 4 port switch. See:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2956453#post2956453

The setup was absolutely straightforwrd - it came with 4 DVI cables. The switch works very well, I haven't seen any problems in 2 days of usage. It has a small IR-remote control that also does its job. I am now programming it into a Harmony remote. I shall post a more detailed review soon in the DVI guide thread.

I'm mostly happy with my Samsung HLN467... there's just one thing I've noticed that's keeping me from being entirely ecstatic about it:

On some regular-TV pictures, I notice what I can only describe as a "green fringe" at the edge of some flesh tones. It's most notable in close-up head shots, at the left-edge of the face. Just a slight, greenish "halo" overlapping the flesh-tone where it intersects with whatever is in the background.

I've adjusted the picture menu settings slightly, to take out some of the green tint, and that has reduced the effect slighlty. I'm suspecting if it's going to be adjusted any further, I'll be going into the service menu.

Has anybody else seen this effect, or have any idea which settings to fiddle with in the service menu to reduce it further?

Thanks,

--PS

driver49,

Can you display any test images on your HLN? If you can get it hooked up to a PC, or a DVD player showing Digital Video Essentials or Avia then some test images will show what you've got going on. That's the best way to be sure what you're seeing is due to the TV.

On my HLN467 I do see color fringes on white test grid patterns. Those fringes are never more than one pixel wide and in most parts of the picture about 1/4 pixel wide. How wide are your fringes?

Originally posted by TooLittleTimeZZZ
driver49,

Can you display any test images on your HLN? If you can get it hooked up to a PC, or a DVD player showing Digital Video Essentials or Avia then some test images will show what you've got going on. That's the best way to be sure what you're seeing is due to the TV.

On my HLN467 I do see color fringes on white test grid patterns. Those fringes are never more than one pixel wide and in most parts of the picture about 1/4 pixel wide. How wide are your fringes?
TooLittleTimeZZZ, what type of connection are your using when you see these color fringes. I have run many test patterns (see Testing in my signature), and I am trying to find out if we are getting the same results. I don't see any artifacts on test patterns through DVI and VGA connections. Post number 12 in the Testing thread has a file of the patterns that I used.

I read through all 50+ pages of this document... good info. Here's what I've got..

1. I just purchased a Samsung HLN-567W and a Denon-DVD2200. I'm concerned that in the earlier part of the post, someone had mentioned that buying a progressive scan DVD player with this set is superfluous, in a way. It's advised to just "turn off" the progressive capability of the DVD player player and allow the set to do the scaling. Is this correct? Should I be running down to the store to return my Denon DVD player?? I did notice there is a bit more 'noise', so to speak, with progressive capability turned on (via the component video output).

2. Is it possible for someone who has the same set as me to e-mail or post what your 'settings' are? I attempted to calibrate via my Avia DVD but it seems to be a lot more difficult to calibrate with a DLP set, IMO. I'm just not sure if I'm getting the best picture possible at the moment.

Hopefully, these questions have not been asked before. I did not see anything this specific while reading through this entire thread. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or tips anyone might be able to give me.

Scott.

Originally posted by Scott Wong
I read through all 50+ pages of this document... good info. Here's what I've got..

1. I just purchased a Samsung HLN-567W and a Denon-DVD2200. I'm concerned that in the earlier part of the post, someone had mentioned that buying a progressive scan DVD player with this set is superfluous, in a way. It's advised to just "turn off" the progressive capability of the DVD player player and allow the set to do the scaling. Is this correct? Should I be running down to the store to return my Denon DVD player??
There are a lot of Samsung DLP owners that would return your DVD player and use a DVI capable DVD player set to output 720p. They would also turn off progressive mode on most DVD players and let their Faroudja chip handle de-interlacing their DVDs.

The Bravo D1 and Samsung HD-931 have been big sellers for this reason. They both have issues that you can read about in the DVD hardware forum.

LG has a combo "DVD player OTA tuner" with DVI out (LST-3510A) that is also starting to get attention.

Scott,

Yes, you should return your Denon DVD player, if you can. Get a DVI equipped player instead.

The DVD players in the running are: Bravo D1 at the low end (www.vinc.com $199), LG LST-3510A at mid range also has a built-in OTA HD tuner (www.jandr.com $499), and Denon 5900 at the very high end ($2000).

I recommend against Samsung HD 931 -- it has two problems: 1) uses a PC colorspace instead of video colorspace crushing blacks and whites 2) stretches 4:3 DVD's in DVI output.

See these related threads:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331338
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3020154#post3020154
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=259532
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=323276