It's certainly possible to still return my Denon DVD-2200.

But where do I go about getting either the Bravo D1 or the LG player? Are those brands? I've never even heard about these players until reading this thread.

Do Circuit City, Best Buy, or Ultimate Electronics sell either of these??? The Denon DVD-5900 is way outta my league.

Can anyone comment on the settings of this particular set?? I am so unhappy with the picture this Denon DVD-2200 puts out thus far. (with or without the progressive scan mode) I've got Monster Cable M1000v component video cables. *shrug* At the moment, I'm sort of digusted. Perhaps getting one of the aforementioned will help build my trust.

For what it's worth, prior to all of this, I had a Sony KV36FV15 and a Toshiba SD-6200. Picture quality is phenomenal. I realize I'm now in a completely different ballpark... I just know this Samsung HLN-567W is capable of way more than I'm currently seeing. Hence, the unhappiness. I'm also having Time Warner HD service installed tomorrow.

I'd appreciate any other comments or suggestions.

Scott.

Originally posted by arungupta
TooLittleTimeZZZ, what type of connection are your using when you see these color fringes. I have run many test patterns (see Testing in my signature), and I am trying to find out if we are getting the same results. I don't see any artifacts on test patterns through DVI and VGA connections. Post number 12 in the Testing thread has a file of the patterns that I used.
I haven't tried your focus test pattern but have been using a convergence & geometry pattern (DVE image 12/20) that has a grid of three pixel wide white lines. I've been testing using Bravo D1 -> DVI -> Samsung HLN467.

arungupta, I'm beginning to think that you just lucked out and got a defect-free Sammy... :D

I actually have 2 DLPs. That would be a lot of luck.

When I was doing my testing a few months ago, I found that any test pattern coming from a DVD (Avia, DVE) is suspect because 1) it is not designed for an HD display with my specific resolution, 2) it has already gone through compression to get on the DVD, 3) it has gone through unknown processing at the author's hand.

Therefore, I looked for ways of creating pure patterns. I found a program called DisplayMate which has a very large variety of patterns that can be created for any resolution display. The patterns I used in the Testing thread are from that source.

TooLittleTimeZZZ, upon reflection on your remark, I realize that there maybe a fundamental difference in our approaches to diagnosing PQ problems with this TV.

Samsung display is a clear and brutal magnifying mirror to the contorted process that the signal has gone through to get to the display, and is revealing all the faults in the signal. This is true for most high performance digital displays, and is specially true for the Samsung DLP TV. So when I see an artifact, I first try to eliminate the original source signal, the source box and the connection. If all of these are eliminated, then the fault must be in the TV. I have undertaken a detailed testing process to understand the exact performance of this TV. That is not to say that there is nothing more to find out, only that I look for clear and hard evidence.

Originally posted by Scott Wong
It's certainly possible to still return my Denon DVD-2200.

But where do I go about getting either the Bravo D1 or the LG player? Are those brands? I've never even heard about these players until reading this thread.



You get the Bravo D1 from www.vinc.com

(Though, at one point, there was a special deal from AV Science or AVSforum on the player .. check the DVD player section to see if they are still doing it. Even if they aren't it's only $199 and does native 720p.) There's tons of info on this player in the DVD Player section of the forum.

LG Electronics - us.lge.com - is actually a very big korean (I think) conglomerate. They make a really nice washer/dryer too.

-David

Originally posted by TooLittleTimeZZZ
driver49,

Can you display any test images on your HLN? If you can get it hooked up to a PC, or a DVD player showing Digital Video Essentials or Avia then some test images will show what you've got going on. That's the best way to be sure what you're seeing is due to the TV.


I'll resume this thread here...

First, to TLTZZZ: I do have a PC hooked up to my HLN... what source do you suggest for a test pattern from the PC? Other than that source, can you steer me to a vendor for the Avia or DVE disk? Prefer one over the other for any particular reason?

And for Arun: I guess I'm going to have to spend some time tweaking my picture. In the meantime, can you tell me, does the color balance in the HLN467 "shift" with use? Something to do with the timing in the color wheel?

Watching The Two Towers last night, we noticed a distinct tenedency toward green starting about halfway through the film - for example, King Theoden's beard, which should have been mostly blond flecked with gray, had a decidedely green cast to it. We noticed that in flesh tones as well. How would you suggest I go about correcting this problem?

Thanks,

--PS

Originally posted by arungupta
I recommend against Samsung HD 931 -- it has two problems: 1) uses a PC colorspace instead of video colorspace crushing blacks and whites 2) stretches 4:3 DVD's in DVI output.


So would that be why the blacks on my HLN617W aren't very black?

I need a DVD player with an optical digital audio out AND DVI since my HD cable box uses the only digital coax jack on my Yamaha receiver. The HD-931 has optical out (along with coax). Maybe I should just use my old Toshiba SD-3109 (with optical out and 480i fed through Component 1) until the LG DVD player, or some newer models with DVI out, become more available.

Do you think that would be wise?

Here's a tip for those tired of flipping between 'normal' and 'wide' as they switch between SD and HD with Comcast's Motorola DCT-5100...

The STB's setup menu (press menu with STB off and TV on) has a variable called '480 override' that describes the mode that will be used to output SD over the HD Component connection. Setting '480i' will give an 'unsupported mode' error on the HD inputs. '480p' necessitates flipping to 'normal' aspect on the TV. The third option, 'off', is a bit of a misnomer... what it does is causes the SD image to be output in the HD res configured, 720p. With output always at 720p, there is no need to ever switch from 'wide' aspect on the TV. Of course, the upconversion is being done in the STB, but at least it is a single conversion rather than 480i -> 480p -> 720p.

Originally posted by Gilley
So would that be why the blacks on my HLN617W aren't very black?

I need a DVD player with an optical digital audio out AND DVI since my HD cable box uses the only digital coax jack on my Yamaha receiver. The HD-931 has optical out (along with coax). Maybe I should just use my old Toshiba SD-3109 (with optical out and 480i fed through Component 1) until the LG DVD player, or some newer models with DVI out, become more available.

Do you think that would be wise?

No, it has nothing to do with the "absolute" black that your DLP produces. If you look closely at your screen and see no dithering, mosquito's, sparklies etc. Nothing but dark gray pixels, then that's as black as it gets without turning the set off. What the discrepancy between video black and PC black causes is crushing and loss of detail in the area's near black and near white.

OK, I understand now. I'm gonna take the 931 back and wait a few months then. I figured matching the Sammy 931 with the Sammy DLP would be a perfect match. But it doesn't. Someone at Samsung needs to rethink things.

I was going to buy the 931 - but someone's def. got their head up their . . .

Of course, I've become an OAR guy. I really don't like stretched images. But at the very least I like to DECIDE whether I'm going to watch it stretched or not.

You can always switch to component output on the 931, then you can decide whether it's stretched or not.

Hello All,
Just a few thoughts after reading the last 3 pages. I've got a Samsung 56" and two DVD players. A Bravo D1 via DVI and a Panasonic XP-30 hooked to Comp1 w/ component cables. I can do A/B testing of the DVI vs. Comp players very easily (incedently the XP-30 is no slouch and did very well in the shoot out results). Here are some of my observations:

- PQ on the Bravo DVI is amazing. The colors are rich and well resolved. The resolution is very good. I would have to say Finding Nemo erased any doubts I had about this set.
-I use the XP-30 for older movies ( I collect Technicolor DVDs) that are in 1.66:1 ( near 4:3 ) and video material such as TV shows.
- As others have remarked the DLP is a brutal reflection of the material put into it. The poor the signal ...well you know the rest.
- If you have a DLP and are trying to decide on a DVD player I strongly recommend the Bravo.


Regards,
Mark

Originally posted by driver49
...
First, to TLTZZZ: I do have a PC hooked up to my HLN... what source do you suggest for a test pattern from the PC? Other than that source, can you steer me to a vendor for the Avia or DVE disk? Prefer one over the other for any particular reason?
...
For testing via your PC, use arungupta's test patterns you'll find here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=2468127

You can find both Avia and DVE at amazon. I've never used Avia, but chose DVE since it's digitally mastered and thus seems like a more predictable source for test images IMO.

To look for color fringes, its best to use a black/white pattern that has transitions all around the picture. I've been using a grid of lines in DVE, but arungupta's focus test would likely work well too.

Mark@ct: I also have the Samsung 56 inch and the Panasonic XP30 hooked up via the component #1 input. You said the picture via dvi with Bravo is great, but you did not say anything about the AB comparison with XP30. I am considering the Bravo because I live only 10 miles from the company that makes them, but if the AB comparison is close then I may just keep my XP30. Any thoughts, Mark?

Originally posted by Scott Wong
But where do I go about getting either the Bravo D1 or the LG player?

Scott.

For the LG Player:
http://www.jandr.com/JRProductPage.process?RestartFlow=t&Section_Id=1&Product_Id=3954285

For Bravo D1
http://www.vinc.com/

Originally posted by driver49
I'll resume this thread here...
And for Arun: I guess I'm going to have to spend some time tweaking my picture. In the meantime, can you tell me, does the color balance in the HLN467 "shift" with use? Something to do with the timing in the color wheel?

Watching The Two Towers last night, we noticed a distinct tenedency toward green starting about halfway through the film - for example, King Theoden's beard, which should have been mostly blond flecked with gray, had a decidedely green cast to it. We noticed that in flesh tones as well. How would you suggest I go about correcting this problem?

Thanks,

--PS
I have never heard of a color shift while the TV is in use. I would have to check Two Towers to see if the problem is in the source -- have you tried to eliminate the source? Which version of Two Towers?

For all who are interested, I am the happy :D owner of the Momitsu V880 which I believe has the same guts :eek: as the Bravo D1. They both have all the same connections. ;) The Momitsu is silver instead of black. :p

The difference to me is that VINC is buying their units from the manufacturers of the Momitsu and slapping their black box on it and calling it the Bravo D1. I returned my Bravo because of the problem with numerous remotes causing it to act funny. :(

What makes the Momitsu better is that if you go to http://www.manowa.com.tw/dvdplayer880FWDL.html
you will see where you can update the firmware of the Momitsu and make it even better. ;)

I have applied the latest NON-BETA update and everything runs much better. :) Who knows, these firmware updates may also work on the Bravo because they appear to be the exact same players on the inside.

Maybe someone is willing to give these firmware updates a try on their Bravo and post the results for others.

Where do you buy a Manowa?

It's not a "Manowa," it's name is the Momitsu V880. Do a Google search for the Momitsu V880 and you will see where you can buy it directly from Taiwan (shipping is a little high) and there are various discussion groups with information on setting it up and running it.

Last night I noticed the worst case I have seen to date of the "green fringe" problem that I described previously. I have downloaded the aforementioned test patterns, and ordered a copy of the DVE DVD, but in the meantime, I just took a picture of last night's most aggegious example of the dilemma (which appears to be getting worse over time).

The attached photo is from a film clip ("Stuck on You") shown during last night's "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart." The upper image shows the entire frame, and gives you a fair representation of the entire problem; the second shot shows how severe the problem is in one part of the picture, at the edge of Matt Damon's face, particularly along his chin - which is almost entirely green.

So, now what do I do? Something I can adjust in the Service Menu?

Is there another place on the AVS forum where I can post these pix and get some suggestions?

--PS

umab89,
I've thouhgt and thought aow to give you my subjective impressions. I think the colors are a bit more saturated and the image is a bit clearer/cleaner. I would say a PQ that is noticable, but on the order of 5-10%.

Hope that helps. If you have any questions about how the Bravo has worked for me just ask.

Maek

Originally posted by driver49
Last night I noticed the worst case I have seen to date of the "green fringe" problem that I described previously. I have downloaded the aforementioned test patterns, and ordered a copy of the DVE DVD, but in the meantime, I just took a picture of last night's most aggegious example of the dilemma (which appears to be getting worse over time).

The attached photo is from a film clip ("Stuck on You") shown during last night's "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart." The upper image shows the entire frame, and gives you a fair representation of the entire problem; the second shot shows how severe the problem is in one part of the picture, at the edge of Matt Damon's face, particularly along his chin - which is almost entirely green.

So, now what do I do? Something I can adjust in the Service Menu?

Is there another place on the AVS forum where I can post these pix and get some suggestions?

--PS
driver49, from your picture it is impossible to diagnose the problem. For all we know, it was a broadcast problem.

The only way to diagnose it would be to reproduce the problem with a well known DVD or with the test patterns. Then I can try to see if the problem exists in the original source and at least eliminate the most obvious reason. Also use a DVI connection if you can so we can eliminate analog connection as the reason. Once it is confirmed that the problem exists in the TV and not in what is fed to it, you can start to figure out a solution.

Generally speaking, a TV like this is not a fickle device. If it misbehaves, it is going to do that all the time, not for selected programs and sources. Problems that you see once in a while are likely to be source problems.

I can also say that if a problem like this is being caused by the TV, this would classify as a defective set and you should be able to get a replacement/fix. But before you do that, you should make sure that it is indeed a TV problem.

Originally posted by arungupta
The only way to diagnose it would be to reproduce the problem with a well known DVD or with the test patterns. Then I can try to see if the problem exists in the original source and at least eliminate the most obvious reason. Also use a DVI connection if you can so we can eliminate analog connection as the reason.

Fair enough, though it will likely be later in the week before I have a chance to open up the test patterns (and by then the DVE disk should have arrived). The only caveat is: I don't have anything with a DVI output, so there's no way I can comply with that suggestion. Component video from the DVD player is the best I can do, and the output from my computer (just an old Dell laptop I've dedicated to the entertainment center) is VGA - is that better or worse than component?

BTW, the image you were looking at was from a TiVo recording on "high quality." But I do think I'm seeing too much green in DVDs, too.

I appreciate your looking into it. It sure is nice to have an "authority" a few keystrokes away.

Thanks,

--PS

FWIW, I find Tivo (I have a Series2) seriously degrades my PQ (on my HLN507w) even when watching live TV. I bypass the Tivo whenever watching TV in real time.

I don't doubt that TiVo has some effect on the PQ.

I have not been disappointed with the TiVo playback PQ on the HLN467, in fact I'm surprised it's as good as it is (although I did raise the recording quality from "medium" to "high" for most programs). I've also discovered that I get really excellent PQ recording the HD channels for those networks (CBS, NBC, HBO) that provide an HD simulcast to their regular signals. As for watching "live" TV, we rarely do that any more since getting TiVo, and even then the signal comes straight from the STB, not through the TiVo unit.

--PS

Originally posted by driver49
I don't doubt that TiVo has some effect on the PQ.

I have not been disappointed with the TiVo playback PQ on the HLN467, in fact I'm surprised it's as good as it is (although I did raise the recording quality from "medium" to "high" for most programs). I've also discovered that I get really excellent PQ recording the HD channels for those networks (CBS, NBC, HBO) that provide an HD simulcast to their regular signals. As for watching "live" TV, we rarely do that any more since getting TiVo, and even then the signal comes straight from the STB, not through the TiVo unit.

--PS
I don't have Tivo, have UltimateTV instead which seriously degrades picture quality. In fact the only things we record on it now are animation programs (Simpsons, South Park etc.) where PQ issues are less material.

I have this Samsung DLP for about one year now, and it has taught me a lesson in how many things in the video path screw up picture quality.

I shall attempt an analogy. This TV, and other high performance digital televisions like this, are like high performance cars. To make them perform however, you need to feed them high performance fuel - which is an UNCORRUPTED signal.

Content Providers have to do their own part in giving us a good signal - for example I am very pleased with the picture quality of my new VOOM service, much better than DirecTV which I also have.

We have to do our part in not screwing up the signal.

The problem is, most of todays video components that you could put in the signal's path are likely to screw up the signal -- analog connections, analog/digital conversions, compression/decompression, PVR's, A/V receivers, switches, scalers are all suspect -- very likely to be guilty until proven innocent.

So in forums like this, we have to play detective and police. Figure out which components are guilty, and advertise among members and put pressure on vendors. Hopefully, a new line of A/V devices will emerge that will deal strictly in the digital domain, and are diligent about not corrupting the signal.

I would attempt to define Five rules for uncorrupted digital video processing:

1. No Conversion Rule: No analog/digital conversions whatsoever. This also means that all connections must be digital.

2. No Compression Rule: Decompress once only. No extra recompression/decompression of the signal.

3. Minimal Scaling Rule: Deinterlace once only for interlaced signals. Scale no more than once and only if necessary.

4. Clean Pass Through Rule: Storage devices, connections, cables, switches must pass through the signal with zero change.

5. 1X1 Pixel Mapping Rule: Source box output resolution must be the same (1x1) as the native resolution of the display, or it may be set to variable (i.e. passes the signal through without any scaling in the source box).

Sorry for the diatriabe. Driver49, I fully understand where you are. You are going through what I went through a year ago, and old frustrations have surfaced back.

In your case, I would say that your Component connection is certainly guilty (D/A and A/D conversions), and Tivo is also very likely guilty (compression). It may turn out in the end however, that the specific green fringe problem is actually a broadcast problem.

By the way, VGA is almost as good as DVI. However, your PC must be set to 1280x720 resolution in order to get a 1x1 pixel mapping.

Originally posted by arungupta

5. 1X1 Mapping Rule: Use 1x1 pixel mapping to the displays native resolution.

Sorry for the diatriabe. Driver49, I fully understand where you are. You are going through what I went through a year ago, and old frustrations have surfaced back.

In your case, I would say that your Component connection is certainly guilty (D/A and A/D conversions), and Tivo is also very likely guilty (compression). It may turn out in the end however, that the specific green fringe problem is actually a broadcast problem.

By the way, VGA is almost as good as DVI. However, your PC must be set to 1280x720 resolution in order to get a 1x1 pixel mapping.

No problem re: the diatribe. Obviously this is all new to me and I'm grateful to have the benefit of your experience. I concur with most of what you say, the "high peformance fuel" analogy is certainly apt. TiVo could indeed by guilty, but the TiVo/TV connection is, believe it or not, conventional composite coax, not even component, not even S-video. So that could be quite guilty of causing probs according the various scenarios you've paited.

One question for the moment: what is "1x1 pixel mapping" ? 1 pixel from the source = 1 pixel on the display? Is that why I need 1280x720? I'm not sure if the computer I've got assigned to my ent. ctr is capable of that resolution (like I say, a cheapo Dell). In fact, neither does this higher-end laptop I'm typing from - closest I can get is 1280x1024 or 1024x768. So I suspect 1x1 px mapping is also out of my reach... <*sigh*>

Thanks,

--PS

Download Powerstrip from here. http://www.entechtaiwan.net/ps.htm

It will allow you to create a new resolution option 1280x720 for your video card. Follow their instructions.

After creating this resoution, connect the lapto to the TV using VGA, output only on the TV not on the laptop's LCD, select TV input to VGA, now select the 1280x720 resolution on your laptop, change TV aspect to TV-Wide.

You should now have 1x1 pixel mapping.

One simple test -- start AVSForum, assuming your are networked. You should be able to see every single pixel in every letter clearly. You should also be able to see a 1 pixel checkerboard pattern in the scrollbar on the right. Indeed, that is my quickest test of a completely uncorrupted connection.

And if you got this far, here is the real payback. Get Zoomplayer, PowerDVD, or Theatertek software DVD player. Play a DVD, and rejoice at the picture quality. It will not be the ultimate that you can get from an ATI card on a desktop or a dedicated DVD player with DVI out, but it should be very good.

Five great rules in an ideal setting, Arun. With regard to the pixel matching rule, however, Comcast Nashville outputs all HD signals at 1080i. Should we then convert them to 720p in the Motorola box so they are output at the Sammy's native display resolution? I thought it best to output them at 1080i and let my Sammy do the converting.

Frankly, I've tried it both ways and find virually no difference, leading me to believe that perhaps the Motorola box also has a high-end chip.

Originally posted by jhstn58
Five great rules in an ideal setting, Arun. With regard to the pixel matching rule, however, Comcast Nashville outputs all HD signals at 1080i. Should we then convert them to 720p in the Motorola box so they are output at the Sammy's native display resolution? I thought it best to output them at 1080i and let my Sammy do the converting.

Frankly, I've tried it both ways and find virually no difference, leading me to believe that perhaps the Motorola box also has a high-end chip.
5. 1X1 Pixel Mapping Rule: Source box output resolution must be the same (1x1) as the native resolution of the display, or it may be set to variable (i.e. passes the signal through without any scaling in the source box).

So as the rule says, you are fine either way. (Maybe the rule is not stated so clearly.) In the end, deinterlacing and scaling happens only once. Its only a question of whether it happens in the source box or the TV.

Originally posted by arungupta
I don't have Tivo, have UltimateTV instead which seriously degrades picture quality.

UltimateTV, like the DirecTiVo, records the bitstream from the satellite directly. It does not re-encode the video like a stand-alone TiVo does. How is it that your UltimateTV unit is degrading the picture quality? Unless there's something horribly wrong with it, the PQ should be the same whether it's live or recorded.

Or are you saying that compared to a "regular" DirecTV receiver the PQ from the UTV is degraded regardless of whether it's live or recorded?

If I play a DirecTv program live vs. recorded from UltimateTV, there is quite noticeable difference in PQ. We had noticed it soon after getting these boxes ~2 years ago. I don't know the exact reason. Since it is storing at 1 GB/hour, my assumption has been that it was compressing the signal. If it is not compressing as you say then it may be the playback circuitry. We have 3 units that exhibit the same effect so it is not a question of defective unit. These are RCA UTV boxes.

driver49, from your description the green fringe appears both with the component input from your DVD and from a regular TV source. You haven't said whether the Sammy is providing the tuner for the regular TV or whether its coming from another box.

I'm guessing that all your problem images are coming through the component cables. I suggest you try switching around the order of the cables and see if the image problem changes. For example swap the red and green cables at both ends. Frequently this kind of problem is caused by a poor connection or bad cable and is easy to see if you wiggle or reseat the cables as you watch the picture.

Are the 467 & 567 better units than the 437/4365 507/5065/

Or are they just the newest reconfigured units (little bigger etc.)

Originally posted by TooLittleTimeZZZ
driver49, from your description the green fringe appears both with the component input from your DVD and from a regular TV source. You haven't said whether the Sammy is providing the tuner for the regular TV or whether its coming from another box.

I'm guessing that all your problem images are coming through the component cables. I suggest you try switching around the order of the cables and see if the image problem changes. For example swap the red and green cables at both ends. Frequently this kind of problem is caused by a poor connection or bad cable and is easy to see if you wiggle or reseat the cables as you watch the picture.

TTTZZZ, did you see the images I uploaded from "The Daily Show" ? That was a TiVo-recorded picture, which is conveyed to the Samsung via a common composite co-axial input.

The Sammy is providing the signal when I watch "regular" TV through the "ANT" input. Most of the time I watch TiVo, though, and that's when I've most noticed this "green fringe" as shown in the pictures I uploaded.

The other problem I've described is one of "too much green" while watching the DVD of ROTR-The Two Towers. In particular, King Theoden's beard had a weird green cast to it.

By "swapping" the red and green component cables, do you mean "crossing" them, so that the "red" output of the DVD is connected to the "green" input on the Sammy, and vice-versa? You sure that won't blow anything up,

I'm sure there is a DVD player with a DVI connector in my future... first I want to do some of the tests that Arun suggests with the PC input. In the meantime, I am of course grateful for any suggestions.

Thanks,

--PS

Originally posted by joenash
Are the 467 & 567 better units than the 437/4365 507/5065/

Or are they just the newest reconfigured units (little bigger etc.)
Just a different case and screen size.

Originally posted by driver49
The other problem I've described is one of "too much green" while watching the DVD of ROTR-The Two Towers. In particular, King Theoden's beard had a weird green cast to it.

I put in TTTee last night to see if I could see what you're talking about with the green push. I tried it through my Bravo D1 connected via DVI and through my XBox connected via component. I noticed no green push with either connection, but did notice a HUGE PQ improvement with the Bravo.

Maybe I should put in my order for a Bravo now.... since they're running about three weeks behind in delivery. I'm using a Home Theater Master MX-700 for my Universal Remote, but am dubious that the software for the remote will have code for the Bravo. Are you using a universal remote, or just sticking with the Bravo remote?

--PS

I'm using the Bravo remote, but you COULD get a learning remote.

Driver49, I have a 567 and also see occasional "green shadows" like you have in your pictures. If you watch any football, you may notice the goal posts also have a green tint to them on the shadow side of the posts.

If you search this forum, you will find many mentions of "green push", "green tint", etc with a few suggestions on how to potentially correct it through the GREEN OFFSET and GREEN GAIN adjustments in the Service Menu.

You will also see people recommending an ISF calibration (~$300) because the basic issue is that your gray scale isn't perfect from black->dark gray->light gray->white and it's difficult to adjust it without professional equipment. Here is what I have picked up regarding how to try and tweak your offsets and gains.

1) think of the gray scale as a 45-degree sloped line on a X/Y graph with black at the origin (0,0) and white at the upper right corner (100%, 100%).

2) now think of the gray scale line as actually a set of green, red, and blue lines stacked on top of each other. If they are not exactly on top of each other you could see things like "green shadows" because the green line is above the red & blue lines in the lower area of the gray scale.

3) An OFFSET adjustment moves the original of each color line and the GAIN adjustment changes the slope of each color line. Generally you adjust OFFSETS to try to fix a dark gray issue and you adjust GAINS to try to fix a light gray/white issue. Shadows are dark gray issues so try tweaking OFFSETS (drop the GREEN OFFSET only, or raise the RED/BLUE offsets, or a combo of both).

I don't have problems with whites, just the shadows. I think this is an inherent issue in these sets that people are living with by either making COLOR/TINT adjustments or SM adjustments, or paying to get an ISF calibration. The Summer2004 Sammy DLPs are rumored to have an additional color segment added to the color wheel that will be a dark green and some of the motivation was probably to address the green performance at the lower end of the gray scale. For me, it's a minor issue that I will try to tweak out or even give the ISF cal a try. The PQ is great with DVDs & HDTV and acceptable with SD so it's a definite keeper even if I can't those occasional green shadows to go away.

Ken

What firmware are we talking about here?

Great post, KenHDTV... I've printed it to add to the notebook I keep beside my TV. I haven't opened the service menu yet, but I can tell the time is coming.

Assuming I want to spring the $$ for one, how do I arrange and "ISF" ?? Who does them, and do they operate near Nashville, TN?

Thanks,

--PS

Originally posted by driver49
Assuming I want to spring the $$ for one, how do I arrange and "ISF" ?? Who does them, and do they operate near Nashville, TN?
--PS
You can read about the Imaging Science Foundation (ISF) here. (http://www.imagingscience.com/)

Hi Arun,

Did you receive your DVI- switch from Gefen ? How do you like it ? Any feed back will be greatly appreciated. I am excpecting my Pacific Cable 2 port DVI some time next week.

Thanks.

KE

Like the RS2116 Paul ;)

Originally posted by Your User Name:
I'm using the Bravo remote, but you COULD get a learning remote.
Harmony remote has codes for Bravo. I don't know about MX-700.

Originally posted by KEPILOT
Hi Arun,

Did you receive your DVI- switch from Gefen ? How do you like it ? Any feed back will be greatly appreciated. I am excpecting my Pacific Cable 2 port DVI some time next week.

Thanks.

KE
Gefen 4x1 switch works great. It is a very easy set up, it even comes with 4 DVI cables. It comes with a remote control for switching, or you can program your universal remote. The picture quality is not at all affected. It is HDCP compliant. I recommend it.

There is also a thread on the Gefen 2x1 switch.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=314223

driver49, if you go into the SM, rule #1, write down all your defaults. Arun has some links to excel files you can print tht make it easy to log your defaults.

I would recommend skipping the first SM option that contains DELAY & GAMMA settings and go straight to the 2nd one that contains GREEN, RED, & BLUE OFFSETS & GAINS (ignore all the other settings) and try and fix your green shadow issue. I think my last attempt at this I actually increased RED & BLUE OFFSETS and left the GREEN OFFSET unchanged.

Ken

Arun,

You stated you liked Voom more than DirecTV. Are you receving HD programming with DirecTV? If so, is it the quality of Voom that you like better or do they just have more HD channels available?

I am new to this forum and have gotten a lot of good info from it. I am considering the Sammy HLN617 DLP and Dish Network 811 HD Receiver.
Anyone have any comments on the 811? According to a local Dish installer, DN may have about 25 HD channels available in a couple of months.

Originally posted by Desertdawg
Arun,

You stated you liked Voom more than DirecTV. Are you receving HD programming with DirecTV? If so, is it the quality of Voom that you like better or do they just have more HD channels available?

I am new to this forum and have gotten a lot of good info from it. I am considering the Sammy HLN617 DLP and Dish Network 811 HD Receiver.
Anyone have any comments on the 811? According to a local Dish installer, DN may have about 25 HD channels available in a couple of months.
HD programming - VOOM now has 29 channels goint up to 39 by 2/1/04. See VOOM 39 channels link in my signature. I used to get DirecTV HD programming. I don't any more. I can't say that the quality of HD picture is any better with VOOM, it just has a lot more HD channels.

SD Prgoramming - I get both VOOM and DirecTV. VOOM has much fewer SD channels, but the quality of the picture is noticeably better due to less compression.

VOOM is still in the start up phases, working out the bugs. So I cannot recommend it yet. However, if you are an HD junkie, and don't mind being a guinea pig, go ahead and check it out. Also, if you are in the northeast and have problems with DirecTV or Dish satellites reception due to their west coast locations, VOOM satellite may work for you because of its East coast location at 61.5 degrees.

I also like the fact that VOOM is forcing other satellite and cable providers to speed up their plans for more HD. Competition is great!!

Originally posted by driver49
TTTZZZ, did you see the images I uploaded from "The Daily Show" ? That was a TiVo-recorded picture, which is conveyed to the Samsung via a common composite co-axial input.

The Sammy is providing the signal when I watch "regular" TV through the "ANT" input. Most of the time I watch TiVo, though, and that's when I've most noticed this "green fringe" as shown in the pictures I uploaded.

The other problem I've described is one of "too much green" while watching the DVD of ROTR-The Two Towers. In particular, King Theoden's beard had a weird green cast to it.

By "swapping" the red and green component cables, do you mean "crossing" them, so that the "red" output of the DVD is connected to the "green" input on the Sammy, and vice-versa? You sure that won't blow anything up,

I'm sure there is a DVD player with a DVI connector in my future... first I want to do some of the tests that Arun suggests with the PC input. In the meantime, I am of course grateful for any suggestions.

Thanks,

--PS
Since the problem pictures (I saw those you uploaded) are from different sources (both ANT and Composite inputs) then there's most likely something wrong with your antenna signal. I'd try hooking another TV to the Tivo leaving the antenna connection unchanged, and see if it too has the same green edge problems.

As to the green cast from your DVD player, don't cross the cables. Switch both ends so what is now the red cable becomes the green cable and what is now the green cable becomes the red cable.

driver,


your mx700 will "learn" the bravo codes. I use the mx500 to control my bravo.

Originally posted by TooLittleTimeZZZ
Since the problem pictures (I saw those you uploaded) are from different sources (both ANT and Composite inputs) then there's most likely something wrong with your antenna signal. I'd try hooking another TV to the Tivo leaving the antenna connection unchanged, and see if it too has the same green edge problems.

As to the green cast from your DVD player, don't cross the cables. Switch both ends so what is now the red cable becomes the green cable and what is now the green cable becomes the red cable.


Well, this is the same set up as my previous CRT (NTSC) display used, and that didn't have this sort of green fringe. TiVo pictures were pretty true. And, it's not really an "antenna" signal, it's a Comcast signal (Motorola STB). It did occur to me that the cable that's sending the composite signal from TiVo to Sammy is an incredibly cheap coax (RCA) cable, so I'm going to replace that with a Monster S-Video cable and see if that doesn't help.

I don't quite see why switching the cables from the DVD player as you describe will make any difference, unless there is something about the "green" cable that is different from the "red" cable...?? I'da figured they were all the same cables, just marked differently (my ignorance is really showing here, huh?). But I'll try it if I get some time to fiddle with things tomorrow.

That said, I'm beginning to suspect that the real solution is going to be a new DVD player with a DVI out...

Thanks,

--PS

Originally posted by kenhdtv
Arun has some links to excel files you can print tht make it easy to log your defaults.

Arun, can you steer me to those files?

Thanks,

--PS

Originally posted by driver49
I don't quite see why switching the cables from the DVD player as you describe will make any difference, unless there is something about the "green" cable that is different from the "red" cable...?? I'da figured they were all the same cables, just marked differently (my ignorance is really showing here, huh?). But I'll try it if I get some time to fiddle with things tomorrow.
--PS
You are right. They are color coded only so you won't cross connect them. Swapping red and blue or any two cables could let you know if one of them is defective.

Using composite could cause the TV to spit in your eye. :D

Originally posted by htwaits
Using composite could cause the TV to spit in your eye. :D

I just discovered my cousin has been using composite from his dvd player to his Sony XBR tube for the past 4 years. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by driver49
Well, this is the same set up as my previous CRT (NTSC) display used, and that didn't have this sort of green fringe. TiVo pictures were pretty true. And, it's not really an "antenna" signal, it's a Comcast signal (Motorola STB). It did occur to me that the cable that's sending the composite signal from TiVo to Sammy is an incredibly cheap coax (RCA) cable, so I'm going to replace that with a Monster S-Video cable and see if that doesn't help.
...
Hey driver49,

Diagnosing problems like this take a very precise understanding of your setup. You can't say its an antenna input to the sammy in one post and then a Cable connection through a Moto STB in the next and expect us to help much.

Give a full description of how the video signals pass through your setup and we can try to help. Don't forget to include your receiver, or switch boxes, even if (in your mind) the video is supposed to just pass through them.

Arun & KEPILOT,
I have had an HLN507W for about 3 weeks now and regardless of the set's faults (which are tiny IMHO) this baby is definitely a keeper! I can't wait to try out the Bravo I ordered a few days ago. I have played around with some of the tweaks using DVE, considered renting a Colorfacts unit, or going the ISF route but the more I think about this the more I come to one conclusion, or should I say confusion?

If the ultimate picture comes from having all of your devices use DVI through one of the new DVI switches what good does tweaking the various input settings do? I mean, the best you could do is put DVE in your Brave DVD player and tweak to perfection. But all you have really done is to optimize the DVI input for your Bravo. What about all of the other devices you have or will have hooked up to the DVI switch?

I read about people using their PCs with test pattern software but all they are doing is tweaking the inputs for THAT PC with THAT video card and THOSE drivers. Even if you use a calibrated HDTV signal generator (the ultimate I would suppose) the input is still optimized only for that device.

Am I the only one loosing sleep over this? Don't get me wrong, the set is terrific but I do want to get the best out of it. The more I think about this though the more it seems to be an exercise in futility.

Pat

Driver49, beware the Monster monster (money+eater). If you try the Monster S-video cable, also buy a $9 S-video cable at TARGET (RCA brand) and see if you notice a difference.

pdoyle, you are right. Basically calibrating/tweaking with a DVI source is the best way to fine tune your DLP light engine because all other sources involve additional circuitry & signal conditioning. So you should ALWAYS use your DVI source to tweak the SM sections that impact ALL sources, and only use other sources to tweak the SM sections that are dedicated to those other sources. I haven't seen much discussion on those other SM sections - it may be that people are just using the UM settings to tweak the other sources and only using the SM to fine tune the global settings with a DVI source.

Ken

Originally posted by pdoyle
Arun & KEPILOT,
I have had an HLN507W for about 3 weeks now and regardless of the set's faults (which are tiny IMHO) this baby is definitely a keeper! I can't wait to try out the Bravo I ordered a few days ago. I have played around with some of the tweaks using DVE, considered renting a Colorfacts unit, or going the ISF route but the more I think about this the more I come to one conclusion, or should I say confusion?

If the ultimate picture comes from having all of your devices use DVI through one of the new DVI switches what good does tweaking the various input settings do? I mean, the best you could do is put DVE in your Brave DVD player and tweak to perfection. But all you have really done is to optimize the DVI input for your Bravo. What about all of the other devices you have or will have hooked up to the DVI switch?

I read about people using their PCs with test pattern software but all they are doing is tweaking the inputs for THAT PC with THAT video card and THOSE drivers. Even if you use a calibrated HDTV signal generator (the ultimate I would suppose) the input is still optimized only for that device.

Am I the only one loosing sleep over this? Don't get me wrong, the set is terrific but I do want to get the best out of it. The more I think about this though the more it seems to be an exercise in futility.

Pat


Pat :

Great to hear that you are enjoying your HLN50, like rest of us.

In the SM menu you can tweak / optimize each input. In other words you can change each settings for every in-put that you have. I have tweaked mine for DVI, Sat and VCR. There are minor changes in the settings,as compared to the others, but, they make the difference in the PQ.

There are couple of nice threads on the SM changes that some of the proffessionals have posted. You might want to try them based on your board.

" Don't forget to note down the Factory Defaults ". There is no reset bottom, once you change them.

KE

I've been searching threads and I can't find anyone else who's had the same problem I've had with the "Check the fan No. 2" warning on my HLN4365W, check out the thread at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=336388

Ken & KE,
Thanks for your responses but I am afraid that I was not really clear in my earlier post. I understand that some SM options affect all inputs while other settings are specific to each input.
What I was asking is that, given that your best image is via the Bravo and the DVI input, once you do the tweaks there you have optimized the DVI input for your DVD player. Now what do you do when, in pursuit of the holy grail of image perfection. you connect an HDTV Tuner & a PC to a DVI switch along with your Bravo? The input was only setup for the Bravo.

It almost seems like we would be better of using each device on a separate input (DVI, VGA, Composite) so that we could tweak each to perfection on it's own input.

Am I wrong about this?

Pat

Originally posted by pdoyle
Ken & KE,
Thanks for your responses but I am afraid that I was not really clear in my earlier post. I understand that some SM options affect all inputs while other settings are specific to each input.
What I was asking is that, given that your best image is via the Bravo and the DVI input, once you do the tweaks there you have optimized the DVI input for your DVD player. Now what do you do when, in pursuit of the holy grail of image perfection. you connect an HDTV Tuner & a PC to a DVI switch along with your Bravo? The input was only setup for the Bravo.

It almost seems like we would be better of using each device on a separate input (DVI, VGA, Composite) so that we could tweak each to perfection on it's own input.

Am I wrong about this?

Pat

My question is how would you go about optimizing the settings for HDTV?

I would imagine that the best you will get is what you get through your Bravo DVI using the various calibration software.

Originally posted by TooLittleTimeZZZ
Hey driver49,

Diagnosing problems like this take a very precise understanding of your setup. You can't say its an antenna input to the sammy in one post and then a Cable connection through a Moto STB in the next and expect us to help much.

Give a full description of how the video signals pass through your setup and we can try to help. Don't forget to include your receiver, or switch boxes, even if (in your mind) the video is supposed to just pass through them.

Well, you're certainly right about that... trying to diagnose issues like this in a forum like this is difficult enough without confusing things unnecesarily, so I apologize for the mixup re: inputs.

Here's the latest... I finally had a chance this afternoon to spend some more time with some of the inputs and standard menu settings.

The first thing I discovered is that the problem with the "green fringe" re: the images I uploaded are most assuredly an issue with the TiVo signal going into the Sammy. I discovered this by accident when I a/b switched between a "live" signal coming out of the TiVo with the same signal coming straight out of the STB into Component 2. The Component 2 picture was much warmer and did not have the pronounced "green fringe" (is that what we call "green push" or "green shift"?) that the same picture had coming out of the TiVo. Voila. I also tried switching the input from the TiVo from a composite video to an S-video, and that didn't make a shred of difference. (I'll be returning my $50 Monster S-video cable).

I suppose I could try fussing with the Service Menu for the composite video input that I'm using from the TiVo? But I went into the service menu for the first time today, and couldn't understand a word of it. Is there a guide to the service menu somewhere?

I also went into the standard menu settings for the Component 1 - my DVD input, and spent some time experimenting with those options, according to some of the recommendations made in Arun's "Unofficial Guide" and the pictures look much better now - warmer. Theoden's beard still looks green, but I think that's just how it looks.

I think I'll settle with this for now - at least until I get a DVI capable DVD player. That maybe be sooner rather than later, because I'm still having this problem with the DVD playback freezing. It had stopped on Monday, but was doing it again this afternoon. Damn, it's always something.

That's the news... I've got a quick question for Arun but I'll put that in a new post.

Thanks again,

--PS

Originally posted by TooLittleTimeZZZ
Hey driver49,

Diagnosing problems like this take a very precise understanding of your setup. You can't say its an antenna input to the sammy in one post and then a Cable connection through a Moto STB in the next and expect us to help much.

Give a full description of how the video signals pass through your setup and we can try to help. Don't forget to include your receiver, or switch boxes, even if (in your mind) the video is supposed to just pass through them.

Well, you're certainly right about that... trying to diagnose issues like this in a forum like this is difficult enough without confusing things unnecesarily, so I apologize for the mixup re: inputs.

Here's the latest... I finally had a chance this afternoon to spend some more time with some of the inputs and standard menu settings.

The first thing I discovered is that the problem with the "green fringe" re: the images I uploaded are most assuredly an issue with the TiVo signal going into the Sammy. I discovered this by accident when I a/b switched between a "live" signal coming out of the TiVo with the same signal coming straight out of the STB into Component 2. The Component 2 picture was much warmer and did not have the pronounced "green fringe" (is that what we call "green push" or "green shift"?) that the same picture had coming out of the TiVo. Voila. I also tried switching the input from the TiVo from a composite video to an S-video, and that didn't make a shred of difference. (I'll be returning my $50 Monster S-video cable).

I suppose I could try fussing with the Service Menu for the composite video input that I'm using from the TiVo? But I went into the service menu for the first time today, and couldn't understand a word of it. Is there a guide to the service menu somewhere?

I also went into the standard menu settings for the Component 1 - my DVD input, and spent some time experimenting with those options, according to some of the recommendations made in Arun's "Unofficial Guide" and the pictures look much better now - warmer. Theoden's beard still looks green, but I think that's just how it looks.

I think I'll settle with this for now - at least until I get a DVI capable DVD player. That maybe be sooner rather than later, because I'm still having this problem with the DVD playback freezing. It had stopped on Monday, but was doing it again this afternoon. Damn, it's always something.

That's the news... I've got a quick question for Arun but I'll put that in a new post.

Thanks again,

--PS

I feel like a REAL idiot having to ask this one... I was looking at the "Unofficial Guide" on a computer this afternoon that I had just installed MSWord 2000 on, but I couldn't get any of the links within the document to work. I don't have that problem with any of my other computers, I just wonder if somebody can suggest why I'm having that problem and if there's a simple solution... some toggle somewhere that I need to switch maybe?

Thanks,

--PS

Some versions of Word require you to Ctrl-click hyperlinks. In Word XP it's an option on the Edit tab.

How have you secured a Centre Channel Speaker above the HLM617W?

When I first got my HLM617W, I had built a temporary shelf for the center channel. I got a dark grey piece of foam in the same color as the box, cut it precisely and attached it on top of the TV with some tape to make a shelf. It worked fine for a few months.

Later on, I had custom shelving built around the TV and I removed this makeshift shelf.

do you have a photo of the temporary centre channel speaker support?

No I'm sorry I don't. You just need to come up with the right size foam to match the size of your center channel, and to fit on the top of the TV behind the bezel. It had only taken me 10 minutes to mark and cut the foam.

I have an NHT center channel speaker that sits on top of my HLN617W. The NHT comes with a plastic brace that you can attach to the rear of the speaker. This brace rests on the back of the TV, and the rest of the speaker sits on top of the TV. It seems very secure, but to make sure, I put some of those big rubber "feet" on the bottom of the speaker, and those help -- they don't rest on the TV, instead they are in front of the TV, holding it so it doesn't try to slide off the back.

To better explain my set up, I took a couple of pictures. I didn't realize how "dirty" my speaker was until I took these!! I put the pictures in my gallery...

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php?ppuser=67589&cat=500&thumb=1

(I couldn't see an upload picture option to include them with this posting)

Hi Johnevo,

no pics attached yet! Im standing by so i can see!

Thanks

Yeah, it's my first time uploading photos. Check my previous posting again.

thats a dirty speaker! (only kidding)

Thanks for the pics, it helps alot!

Im buying the Boston Acoustics VRC Centre Channel and it comes in at a hefty 9Kg and dimensions are (129 x 559 x 205mm).

Im worried that it may not come with an attachement like yours.

What are the sixe and weight of the NHT CC?

Well, it's an NHT SC1, and according to the documentation, it's:

- 11 lbs
- 6.63" (deep)
- 16.54" (wide)
- 5.63" (high)

John

FYI, if you 'Quote' or 'Post Reply' and don't use 'Quck Reply' there's an 'Attach File' option way down at the bottom for including pix in a post.

That'll work! Thanks Lee.

New Samsung DLP Model among "Best of 2004 CES Innovations" Awards Honorees.

Samsung's 56” W HDTV Monitor TV with DLP Technology (HLP5685W )

The new Samsung HLP5685W DLP™ TV line offers the best of HD picture quality performance with a light weight design addressing more placement options than other same class TV’s.

http://www.cesweb.org/shared_files/innovations/innovations_2004/2559/mainphoto2559.jpg

Other "Best" awards:
http://www.cesweb.org/attendees/awards/innovations/2004/default.asp?boi=1

Those HLP's look cool. When are they supposed to come out? Any other improvements? Maybe I should return my HLN617W.

If I go by last year's announcements, I wouldn't expect any new models to come out before spring. That is the only information available now on this TV. We shall know a lot more in next couple of weeks as CES starts.

Thanks Arun. I'll keep the HLN. It's great and I don't see any of the problems that others see with this TV.

I hope there is a table top version with out the side mounted speakers. Was there any information other than the picture?

No there is no more information yet, Les. I would presume that they would keep the current line up (with improvements of course), and this is just a different packaging for those who are looking for a different statement from their TV. It is very stylish but wouldn't be practical for a set up like mine.

With all my practice :) I would wait a bit more for a table model with the new light engine. This package doesn't work for me either.

I was comparing a 50" GWIII to a HLN567W side by side in a home theater room at retailer today, both being fed from the same dvd feed watching Lord of the Rings II. I am familiar with the user menu in the HLN and tried as best as I could to get its picture to match the GWIII. No matter what I did, the GWIII always appeared to have better colors. On the HLN, I could either get the face flesh tones to look right, or I could get the back ground sky and land colors to look right, but not both at the same time. I played with it for about 1 hour using many many combinations (I have an HLN now and started with the setting that I have at home).

My question is: Can I ever get the colors on the DLP to look like those on the GWIII? Is there an adjustment in the service menu that will, for lack of a better term, broaden the spectrum and/or give better saturation of the colors?

dvdt, feeding the same DVD feed to Samsung DLP and GWIII doesn't do either justice. Samsung DLP shines when the DVD input is through DVI, and GWIII seems to do better with Component inputs. So maybe you can find a retail location that can allow you to do such a comparison.

To color calibrate a Samsung DLP, you need to go into the Service menu. There are a number of threads on that topic.

I had my HLN617 ISF calibrated last night. Many adjustments in the service menu were required, but it is now dialed into D65 across the board with perfect colors across the specturm. A slight reductiosn in red was required to remove clay faces but the results are truly astounding. Watched the Fifth Element and Lord of the Rings TT and was just floored.

And that was through S-Video. DVI DVD on the way (3 week backlog on Bravo D1).

I also cannot use this new TV. No place for a large center speaker. big screens need big sound.

Thanks Arun for the heads up!

Scanning down I do see the new Hughes HD DirecTivo in best of what's new. Hopefully Sony or Samsung will also make one.

Originally posted by htwaits
I hope there is a table top version with out the side mounted speakers. Was there any information other than the picture?

The side mounted speakers are what eliminates the Sony GWIII for many of us. Samsung would be smart not to repeat Sony's mistake. Most of us in this market have surround sound systems anyway. They should put their efforts into picture quality and don't worry about sound

I would certainly hate to see Samsung making a big wide TV.
I sell more Samsung DLP 50" to people initially thinking they were constrained to 42" GWIII's, because of the lack of side mounted speakers.

Sony never has cared much about practical aesthetics, taking an attitude of "They'll make it fit." but a lot of people don't buy Sony because of that attitude.

Samsung already got an attitude in our store when they removed their interest free financing, which was a shot in the arm for Hitachi, and Sony. Truth be told, I don't like the new HLP sets. I really like the 46" and 56" cosmetic. There really is no reason to go away from that. It's beautiful.

Joe, I don't think this TV at all implies that Samsung is doing away with the tabletop form factor. I think this new set is meant to be their "Showpiece" set, it will show well in ads and showrooms. In most homes, the narrower tabletop sets are more practical and will continue to generate bulk of the sales.

Yay for Samsung.
I'm very excited to see how they continue the tradition of making, in my opinion, the best digital projection sets to date.

I'm not too fond of the new look either. However if it's a new model and not a replacement I could definitely see some liking it. Does this set have the same internals as the current model only with new styling?

Also, any word on the 2004 DLPs from Samsung? Are we still looking at late summer 2004 for the HD2+ models? Just curious. I've got about 7 days left on my 30 day return policy. I'd wait til Spring if I knew for sure the HD2+ models were available then . Late summer is too long for me. I gues since I was able to get close to 30% off that I could sell my HLN617W later and not take too much of a loss and upgrade next fall if it is that much better.

If you wait until Spring, then you'll want to wait for the HDC3PO chip, which will be released around the same time they announce the HDR2D2 chip, and you'll want to wait for that.

It's the circle of electronics. It rules us all.

Originally posted by Kidd Digital
If you wait until Spring, then you'll want to wait for the HDC3PO chip, which will be released around the same time they announce the HDR2D2 chip, and you'll want to wait for that.

It's the circle of electronics. It rules us all.

That's true for all of us but my main reason that I do like my HLN617W, however, it just leaves me wanting more for my money when it comes to the lack of giving me a nice vivid image in darker scenes. Darker scenes just come out dim. Darker blacks would be nice but I'm OK with them. The dark scenes would be the only real reason I'd want to wait that long.

Although I'm sure if I waited for the HDC3PO and HDR2D2 chips, my Star Wars movies would look much better.

Are you kidding? We know how bad R2D2's PQ is (even if it is 3-D).

Originally posted by xb1032
That's true for all of us but my main reason that I do like my HLN617W, however, it just leaves me wanting more for my money when it comes to the lack of giving me a nice vivid image in darker scenes. Darker scenes just come out dim. Darker blacks would be nice but I'm OK with them. The dark scenes would be the only real reason I'd want to wait that long.

It is traditional for new DLP chips to show up on high end front projectors first. Front projectors with HD2+ chips have just started shipping - see this report on Sharp 11K/12K. Black level improvements is one of the areas specifically addressed by the new chip/color wheel combination.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=332438

There are no announcements yet on HD2+ based RPTV's. We may know more at CES 2004 (Jan 8-11).

Originally posted by CobraKahn
I had my HLN617 ISF calibrated last night. Many adjustments in the service menu were required, but it is now dialed into D65 across the board with perfect colors across the specturm. A slight reductiosn in red was required to remove clay faces but the results are truly astounding. Watched the Fifth Element and Lord of the Rings TT and was just floored.

And that was through S-Video. DVI DVD on the way (3 week backlog on Bravo D1).

I'm not 100% sure, but I think you will need another calibration done if you're switching from S-Video to DVI. Can anyone else confirm/deny this?

Also, anyone know a price point of the upcoming HLP models? He bought a 5065 but is still able to return it. He said he'd be willing to wait for the HLP if the price is right. He's 26 and just bought a condo in downtown Seattle and the HLP would fit nicely with his decor. It has, as we like to put it, a high panty-dropping factor. :D

I hate the CES "awards" that happen weeks before the show.

I like the new TV, tho.

Originally posted by mpestrada74
I'm not 100% sure, but I think you will need another calibration done if you're switching from S-Video to DVI. Can anyone else confirm/deny this?

:D

All inputs - S-Video, DVI and component were calibrated using a signal generator. They are all good to go. The only thing one might do is adjust contrast a bit for differences in DVD players. This can easily be done with the DVE or Avia discs.

CObra, did your ISF cal change any SM settings other than DELAY, GAMMA, OFFSETS, and GAINS ? If so, which ones and do you have before & after values ?

Ken

Those were the changes. No change to delay. I do not have before, and cannot provide the after without his permission. He used some very expensive equipment and spent some time with it, so it would not be fair to provide values to others for free. He does do telephone consultations. His name is Josh Lehman and he can be found at digitalaudiovideo.com.

Originally posted by arungupta


There are no announcements yet on HD2+ based RPTV's. We may know more at CES 2004 (Jan 8-11).

That's how it typically works. Find out more info when it's too late. After December 23rd, my return policy expires and I won't really want to know about a new model come then.

Originally posted by CobraKahn
Those were the changes. No change to delay. I do not have before, and cannot provide the after without his permission. He used some very expensive equipment and spent some time with it, so it would not be fair to provide values to others for free. He does do telephone consultations. His name is Josh Lehman and he can be found at digitalaudiovideo.com.

Actually you paid for his profession services right? And it’s your set? If so I would think you are free to publish the results, that is unless you signed some form of contract to the contrary. The settings are certainly not proprietary if it’s setting it up to a reference standard.

Does anyone have a set with 306 firmware they haven't changed the service menu settings? If so, could they compare the 306 default settings to the 302 default settings and let me know how they differ?

I have a new HLN617W that's got a 306 firmware. I didn't really pay much attention to the version until I applied a couple of the 302 tweaks and wasn't happy. Unfortunately, since I thought I was running 302 firmware I didn't bother to record the default settings before I changed them. Returning to the 302 defaults gives me a pretty good picture, but I'd like to return the set to the 306 defaults and start again.

I second the request for 306 defaults. And if anyone has any reccomended settings, those would be welcome too.

Geez... how many times are the exact same questions going to be asked and answered? The defaults for each set, regardless of firmware revision are DIFFERENT for EVERY set. If you didn't write down your out of the box defaults before monkeying in the SM, you are screwed. There is NO reset. There is NO copying other people's defaults because they most assuredly will NOT be the same ones that your set had. Two minutes of reading in ANY of the myriad HLN/HLM tv tweaks threads would have yielded this answer.

THIS is the very reason that people don't like newbie posts. If you had spent a few minutes reading or at least using the search engine you would have had your questions answered without ever having to post here.

Happy friggin holidays,
Jeff

Originally posted by Iceblade
Geez... Happy friggin holidays,
Jeff
Go directly to the shower of your choice. Open the right hand valve as far as you can. Insert head. When done, reverse the process. :D

*LOL*

No kiddin'. I think I got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. BAH HUMBUG! :)

Later,
Jeff


Originally posted by htwaits
Go directly to the shower of your choice. Open the right hand valve as far as you can. Insert head. When done, reverse the process. :D

Just click on the link. It is abbreviated automatically because it is too long.

Just hooked up a Comcast HD STB and I was wondering what resolution I should output over component cables. Should I output at 720p as I do over DVI with my Bravo D1?

Yes. Samsung native resolution is 720p.

Thanks,
Maziar

See this is what is confusing to me though. I understand that the native resolution is 720p, but I also thought that the chip in th Samsung was better than in the STB and therefor you should output at the highest level and let the TV do the work.

Originally posted by Your User Name:
See this is what is confusing to me though. I understand that the native resolution is 720p, but I also thought that the chip in th Samsung was better than in the STB and therefor you should output at the highest level and let the TV do the work.

Your User Name, If your Comcast STB has a variable resolution, i.e. it will output the signal without any scaling, then you should select that option and let the TV do the scaling. This is the best option.

If it doesn't have a variable resolution, then use 720p. Now Comcast STB will do the scaling, the TV will do nothing. This is the second best option, but still very acceptable.

If you connect at any other resolution (say 480p), then your STB will downscale all signals to 480p, then the TV will scale it back it up to 720p. You definitely don't want that.

Originally posted by CraigSharrow
OK, maybe I'm missing something, but what does a poster (in this case Arungupta) mean when he says go to:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...threadid=332438

(This ain't the first time I've seen 'beginURL...endURL' in an AVSForum post)

The ellipsis [...] render the URL useless -- or am I supposed to know something about what to replace the ellipsis with?
If you just click on the link as shown to you, it will go to the right URL. (Depending on your browser and OS, you can also right mouse click on the link, and then copy shortcut to copy the URL into the paste buffer. You can then paste it anywhere you want.)

There are two parts to the link, the visible text part, and the underlying URL part. The visible text part is abbreviated (automatically by the forum software) but the underlying URL part has the full URL information.

Originally posted by htwaits
Go directly to the shower of your choice. Open the right hand valve as far as you can. Insert head. When done, reverse the process. :D
Les, if there was a best post award in this forum, I would nominate this post. ;)

Originally posted by arungupta
Les, if there was a best post award in this forum, I would nominate this post. ;)
Thank you for the honor.

At the risk of losing everything that I've gained today, my secret of success is that I try to never let a strait line go by.

"Even a blind pig will find an acorn eventually." ... a famous old poker player :rolleyes: said as he took my money.

Thanks all, that really clears up something that has confused me since day one.

Originally posted by Iceblade
Geez... how many times are the exact same questions going to be asked and answered? The defaults for each set, regardless of firmware revision are DIFFERENT for EVERY set. If you didn't write down your out of the box defaults before monkeying in the SM, you are screwed. There is NO reset. There is NO copying other people's defaults because they most assuredly will NOT be the same ones that your set had. Two minutes of reading in ANY of the myriad HLN/HLM tv tweaks threads would have yielded this answer.

THIS is the very reason that people don't like newbie posts. If you had spent a few minutes reading or at least using the search engine you would have had your questions answered without ever having to post here.


Happy friggin holidays,
Jeff

You know, I've been well aware of forum netiquette since before I began operating a Fidonet hub in 1989 and extra posts translated to dollars wasted downloading them long distance. I've actually been reading this 1100+ message long thread - among others for days. I've even searched for posts that I know I read in this forum (namely the contact info for the guy that does phone consultations) and got no useful hits back. If I'd found an answer I wouldn't have posted in the first place.

If the information were arranged in a way people could find it, they probably wouldn't feel the need to ask. Thank you for your extremely (un)helpful response. THIS is the very reason that people don't like to make "newbie" posts in the first place.

RTFM replies are even less useful than being asked the same question over and over (which my preliminary search told me had -not- been asked, incidentally). Unless you're offering links to threads/messages that offer one of the thousands of answers you insist I was sure to find after 2 minutes of reading you're not helping anyone.

-J

PS- Before you waste your time with a snotty reply to tell me that it's in a thousand messages that 2 minutes of effort could find, I found Josh's contact info finally.

OK...I'm a newbie and I'll venture a post....I hope this is the correct thread for it!

My question relates to the recommendation that cable boxes should be set to the "pass thru" option. Doesn't this create a problem if you're using Component 2/3 and the cable box passes 480i? Wouldn't this strategy require constantly switching between Component 1 (or S-video) and 2/3....depending on channel? Wouldn't this be a giant PITA...or am I missing something?

My next question is related to this. My Brighthouse cable provider gave me a Pace 550P cable box. Even if I set the CB to 720p, when I tune to channels 1-98 (SD analog), I believe the Pace Box switches to 480i...which causes an "unsupported mode" message showing on my component 3 input. My only workaround seems to be use S-video for channels 1-98 and Component 3 above (using Component 1 for everything works, but compromises the HD channels...so that's a no-go). Is this the best I can do? It's a pain switching inputs.

TIA for any feedback!

Originally posted by cjsea
I found Josh's contact info finally.
Darn, I was going to give you Josh's contact information. :) If you had ask in your first message I would have done it then.

Your question hasn't been asked a thousand times. In fact when you compare it to "which TV should I buy?", "why does my new TV have black bars?", or "something vs. something else?" yours is a rare question indeed.

If you get a phone calibration let us know how it works for you. As I'm sure you know, you won't get a full optimization of your PQ because there are individual differences in these sets. An average of full calibrations probably comes close enough for the price.

By the way, someone you just met here was one of Josh's first phone customers and he said himself that he was having a bad day.

Good luck.

Originally posted by RogRacer
My question relates to the recommendation that cable boxes should be set to the "pass thru" option. Doesn't this create a problem if you're using Component 2/3 and the cable box passes 480i?

Yes it does if that's what your STB does. The only one I've ever used personally was connected with DVI and I set it to 720p for that reason.

Wouldn't this strategy require constantly switching between Component 1 (or S-video) and 2/3....depending on channel? Wouldn't this be a giant PITA...or am I missing something?

A lot of people use component for HD and S-Video for SD. If you are a compulsive channel flipper (like my youngest son) then you are going to be irritated. The ones who like it think they get better SD using S-Video.

Is this the best I can do? It's a pain switching inputs.

Yes. It's probably not so bad if you can control your channel hopping or restrict it to one set of sources.

Originally posted by arungupta
Your User Name, If your Comcast STB has a variable resolution, i.e. it will output the signal without any scaling, then you should select that option and let the TV do the scaling. This is the best option.

If it doesn't have a variable resolution, then use 720p. Now Comcast STB will do the scaling, the TV will do nothing. This is the second best option, but still very acceptable.

If you connect at any other resolution (say 480p), then your STB will downscale all signals to 480p, then the TV will scale it back it up to 720p. You definitely don't want that.

Arun et al,

What is the impact of this approach with respect to quality when the channel is originally broadcast in 720p (ABC or ESPN)? Does going up from 720p to 1080i (at STB) back to 720p (on TV) reduce quality at any noticable level?

John

In looking at the CES website. I found that a Samsung LCD display is claiming a resolution of 1920 x 1080 progressive. Am I reading this correctly in assuming that the next gen of LCDs is 1080P ?

In looking at the 56" on the CES website, I cannot seem to find the back panel connectors, are they now at the front in that pod ?

I didn't find a 56" -- found a 46" directview LCD panel -- very very expensive.

Samsung's 46 “ Wide Screen HDTV Monitor LCD TV (LTP468W)

The LTP468W is not only the world’s largest LCD HDTV, it also offers a full 1920 by 1080 progressive scan resolution for outstanding resolution and image clarity.

Originally posted by jsheldon_us
Arun et al,

What is the impact of this approach with respect to quality when the channel is originally broadcast in 720p (ABC or ESPN)? Does going up from 720p to 1080i (at STB) back to 720p (on TV) reduce quality at any noticable level?

John
There is no reason to connect at other than Variable resolution or 720p.

Variable - STB does nothing. TV scales up and down as needed. This is the best option. Yes

720p - STB deinterlaces and scales to 720p. TV does nothing. Assuming the STB is good at deinterlacing / scaling, this is almost as good. Yes

1080p - For a 720p signal, STB will scale up then TV will scale down - some loss but still quite acceptable. Maybe

1080i - For a 720p signal, STB will scale up then TV will scale down - some loss. Bigger problem -- STB will interlace, TV will deinterlace - much bigger loss of alternate scan lines. No

480p - For 1080i and 720p channels, STB will scale down. This effectively converts HD into SD. No No

480i - same as 480p, only worse.No No No

Of course, there are STB box restrictions that make the 'best' choice from above a bad choice: my Sony HD300, when in 'Auto DVI' mode (let the box pass through the signal to the set for scaling, I assume), won't let the aspect mode be changed. You are stuck at 'wide/full screen' for DVI. If you set the 300 to 720p, then the STB can be cycled through normal/wide/pan/zoom, etc. I think the Sony's scaler is good, since I haven't seen a difference, but the ability to alter 4:3 to Normal to Zoom to what definitely overrides a small improvement in PQ (if any!). (If I'm doing something wrong, let me know... :) )

Originally posted by arungupta
There is no reason to connect at other than Variable resolution or 720p.

Variable - STB does nothing. TV scales up and down as needed. This is the best option. Yes

720p - STB deinterlaces and scales to 720p. TV does nothing. Assuming the STB is good at deinterlacing / scaling, this is almost as good. Yes

1080p - For a 720p signal, STB will scale up then TV will scale down - some loss but still quite acceptable. Maybe

1080i - For a 720p signal, STB will scale up then TV will scale down - some loss. Bigger problem -- STB will interlace, TV will deinterlace - much bigger loss of alternate scan lines. No

480p - For 1080i and 720p channels, STB will scale down. This effectively converts HD into SD. No No

480i - same as 480p, only worse.No No No

Unless I am missing something (quite possible), I don't have the variable option with my Moto 5100 STB. So, per your suggestion, I have the STB set to 720p.

Thanks for the rundown. btw - also am waiting (with the rest of the universe) for the DVI connector to be enabled on the STB.

John

Does the HLN series have a line doubling capacity or feature that other brands mention such as Hitachi or Philips with Pixel Plus that improves SD pictures. I notice a lot of complaints about SD quality. The DNIE (I think) says nothing about this kind of enhancement feature. Is it even worth it?

I'm surprised that we haven't seen more discussion about the new HLP series DLP shown on the CES website. The 56" DLP is what I was referring to Arun, not the LCD. Anyone see any other news on the new DLPs from Samsung other than the CES website. I suspect we'll see more at or after CES but I just cant wait :)

Suggested clarification: the section on the inputs is a little unclear where it says "if you use S-Video1, you cannot also use Composite 1". In fact, you can use them both. They share audio inputs, so there is not much point in using them both IF you use the TV for audio.

However, if you just use the TV for video, then for all practical purposes, they are separate. In fact, you can even have SVid1 and Comp1 both used at the same time via PIP.

Does the HLN series have a line doubling capacity or feature that other brands mention such as Hitachi or Philips with Pixel Plus that improves SD pictures. I notice a lot of complaints about SD quality. The DNIE (I think) says nothing about this kind of enhancement feature. Is it even worth it?

The HLNs have line doubling from Faroudja, arguably one of the best companies in the business and makers of $25,000 video processors. It does an excellent job. I do not know how it compares to pixel plus.

Originally posted by WojtekZ
I'm surprised that we haven't seen more discussion about the new HLP series DLP shown on the CES website. The 56" DLP is what I was referring to Arun, not the LCD. Anyone see any other news on the new DLPs from Samsung other than the CES website. I suspect we'll see more at or after CES but I just cant wait :)

I made this post on the 56" TV a few days back.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3065747#post3065747

I shall report more from CES in 2 weeks.

Originally posted by tzs
Suggested clarification: the section on the inputs is a little unclear where it says "if you use S-Video1, you cannot also use Composite 1". In fact, you can use them both. They share audio inputs, so there is not much point in using them both IF you use the TV for audio.

However, if you just use the TV for video, then for all practical purposes, they are separate. In fact, you can even have SVid1 and Comp1 both used at the same time via PIP.
Thanks for the clarification, tzs. I shall update the guide accordingly.

Well, that's good to know, on the S-vid and Composite. I always assumed Sammie meant the S-vid 1 was just the parts of the Composite 1 signal! Hm, a lot more possibilities, if you don't need audio (and I bet many of us here don't!).

I have a HLN567, FW 302 and the normal mode is not an option for me,
Also Ge- force3 ,
I have tried all above and more, and all I get is TV wide and PC wide
Jim.

Jim, are you connectec via DVI? Those are the only modes I have when I'm using DVI.

I have the HLN 467 and the SA 3250 STB. It seems there is no pass thru option on this STB as is being discussed here. Therefore, if the HLN 467 is deemed to have superior scaling and deinterlacing circuits to the STB, it would be important to know the native broadcast signal type for each available HD channel, in order to set the STB to that signal type, and have the HLN 467 scale and deinterlace as needed to its native resolution.

When ( if ) the DVI output is supported by SA, hopefully the option to allow the broadcast native signal to pass thru automatically and use the onboard scaling will work, as well as using the STB to convert all signals to the Samsungs native 720P resolution for greater flexibility. I am looking forward to the elimination of the D/A conversions which I believe are veiling the final image.

Or, am I dumb as a brick.

Hey everyone,

It been a long time since I posted anything on the forum. I have been having the greatest time with my hln617w. I thought I couldn't have been happier with it as it came but I had it professionally calibrated on this past Sunday. The greyscale has been properly set to approximately 6500 kelvins ( from around 15,000! ) and all I can say is that the picture is now INCREDIBLE. I think that you should all consider having your set calibrated. It makes a HUGE difference. I used Kevin Miller, a professional from ISF TV and not only did he make my set look incredible but he gave this beginner an education on every aspect of what he was doing to help me understand his work. Anyway, I felt that he deserved a plug so here it is: Kevin Miller 32-13 32nd Street, Astoria, NY 11106 718-274-0236 WWW.ISFTV.COM e-mail: KEVIN@ISFTV.COM

It is great that you could get Kevin Miller to do your calibration -- he has a very high reputation in the industry. Did he do this calibration in person or remotely?

Suprisingly, he does all calibrations he schedules in person and was not in a rush to leave. I really feel that my money was well spent.

mikeagregor -

How many inputs did Kevin calibrate and how did he price his services?

I downloaded the guide but none of the links work. I think that there is probably a setting on my PC that needs to be turned on. But since I am a PC idiot , I can't seem to find it. I am running XP. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks

Try holding the ctrl key when selecting the link. This is one of the MS-Word "enhancements".

Originally posted by jhstn58
mikeagregor -

How many inputs did Kevin calibrate and how did he price his services?

h
He calibrates all inputs in use with your set. I am only using dvi for my tuner input and s-video with my dvd player. I had component 1 connected but it is not really in use. He asked about that. Obviously, he can't calibrate a connection without an actual input. He charged me a flat fee of $400 which was a little higher than some other estimates but like Arun said, he came highly recommended and at this level of HD home theater, what is an extra 50 bucks or so? Good luck. Which model do you have?

"Try holding the ctrl key when selecting the link. This is one of the MS-Word "enhancements".

Didn't work. Any other ideas?

Originally posted by TWD
"Try holding the ctrl key when selecting the link. This is one of the MS-Word "enhancements".

Didn't work. Any other ideas?

If you right-click on the link, the context menu should have a 'hyperlink' option, and in that option should be a 'copy link' selection. You can then paste the hyperlink into your browser.

I don't know why just clicking wouldn't work, unless someone has turned off the option in Word for you. Links are usually hot automatically.

Originally posted by mikeagregor
h
He calibrates all inputs in use with your set. I am only using dvi for my tuner input and s-video with my dvd player. I had component 1 connected but it is not really in use. He asked about that. Obviously, he can't calibrate a connection without an actual input. He charged me a flat fee of $400 which was a little higher than some other estimates but like Arun said, he came highly recommended and at this level of HD home theater, what is an extra 50 bucks or so? Good luck. Which model do you have?

Does ISF calibration voids your Samsung warrenty and possibly any extended warrenty you may have from the store you bought from?

Originally posted by umab89
Does ISF calibration voids your Samsung warranty and possibly any extended warranty you may have from the store you bought from?

According to Kevin, no. I also had concerns on this issue and I asked as well. He said that if I had any problems to call him right away and he would make a call to his contacts at Samsung. I believe that the only permanent changes to my set are the greyscale levels. I also believe that unless someone was specifically looking for the changes that they are undetectable to a repairman. If I need to have my set repaired at any time I certainly will not mention the fact that my set was ISF calibrated and if I have a problem, I feel confident that Kevin will stand by his word.

Mike

Originally posted by mikeagregor
He calibrates all inputs in use with your set. I am only using dvi for my tuner input and s-video with my dvd player. I had component 1 connected but it is not really in use.
Can you tell us why you are using S-Video instead of Component 1 for your DVD player.

Originally posted by htwaits
Can you tell us why you are using S-Video instead of Component 1 for your DVD player.

Believe it or not, I bought a Sony combo Stereo w/ 5.1 surround, 2 tapes, 5CD/DVD changer a couple of years ago and its best option is an S-video connection. I may upgrade to a 720p DVD player soon. I have to do some more homework to see what my best options are. I am also looking into the Geffen DVI splitter. Does anyone know if you lose any resolution by splitting the DVI input to accept both DVD and Directv TUNER?

Originally posted by mikeagregor
Believe it or not, I bought a Sony combo Stereo w/ 5.1 surround, 2 tapes, 5CD/DVD changer a couple of years ago and its best option is an S-video connection. I may upgrade to a 720p DVD player soon. I have to do some more homework to see what my best options are. I am also looking into the Geffen DVI splitter. Does anyone know if you lose any resolution by splitting the DVI input to accept both DVD and Directv TUNER? I'm surprised Kevin didn't suggest that you wait until you had a DVI DVD player.

You can't split a DVI signal but you can use a DVI switch to select different DVI input sources. Arun Gupta has reviewed the Gefen switch and liked it.

Click here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3037890&highlight=gefen#post3037890)

Originally posted by htwaits
I'm surprised Kevin didn't suggest that you wait until you had a DVI DVD player.

You can't split a DVI signal but you can use a DVI switch to select different DVI input sources. Arun Gupta has reviewed the Gefen switch and liked it.

Click here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3037890&highlight=gefen#post3037890)

Thanks for the correction. The switch is what I meant. Kevin left me a do-it-yourself calibration DVD for when I upgrade. He also said that if I had any questions to call him and he would walk me through it. Like I said before, I think the most important aspect of the calibration was the lowering of the kelvins of the greyscale. The rest was settings for each input through the remote. I guess if it were not for the greyscale, we could do it ourselves. But I am a walking calamity and I would rather pay 400 dollars to an expert than to ruin my beautiful new toy! lol!

Enjoy.

1.) Type "Josh" in the search box at the top of this very thread. the first one yields the name Josh Lehman and how he could be contacted at digitalaudiovideo.com. Note: This post was three posts above your original one and did not require looking through 1100 posts.

Onto your original question about 306 defaults.
1.) Go to the RPTV forum. Type in "306" and "defaults" and BAMMO. A v306 defaults and tweaks thread is seen as the second hit with a guy offering to SEND you his defaults.

That took almost 30 seconds (not two minutes) and yielded exact answers to your questions. So before declaring yourself smarter than the average bear and above such things as RTFM replies... perhaps you should consider RTFM instead of paying it lip service.

Have a good holiday,
Jeff



Originally posted by cjsea
You know, I've been well aware of forum netiquette since before I began operating a Fidonet hub in 1989 and extra posts translated to dollars wasted downloading them long distance. I've actually been reading this 1100+ message long thread - among others for days. I've even searched for posts that I know I read in this forum (namely the contact info for the guy that does phone consultations) and got no useful hits back. If I'd found an answer I wouldn't have posted in the first place.

If the information were arranged in a way people could find it, they probably wouldn't feel the need to ask. Thank you for your extremely (un)helpful response. THIS is the very reason that people don't like to make "newbie" posts in the first place.

RTFM replies are even less useful than being asked the same question over and over (which my preliminary search told me had -not- been asked, incidentally). Unless you're offering links to threads/messages that offer one of the thousands of answers you insist I was sure to find after 2 minutes of reading you're not helping anyone.

-J

PS- Before you waste your time with a snotty reply to tell me that it's in a thousand messages that 2 minutes of effort could find, I found Josh's contact info finally.

Wow, AVS lets you do a search more frequently than every 30 seconds? The quickest I could ever do it would be *over* 30 seconds because of the search limit.

Lucky you. Maybe now it's time to move on to things in life that *actually* matter.

Originally posted by ganman


When ( if ) the DVI output is supported by SA, hopefully the option to allow the broadcast native signal to pass thru automatically and use the onboard scaling will work, as well as using the STB to convert all signals to the Samsungs native 720P resolution for greater flexibility. I am looking forward to the elimination of the D/A conversions which I believe are veiling the final image.



Greater flexibility in one regard - but with DVI you must watch in OAR unless your cable box will alter the aspect ratio.

That is, if broadcast in 16:9 you get it in 16:9; if in 4:3 you can choose between TV Wide and PC wide which are both 4:3 with PC wide being only minimally smaller to allow the entire display from your pc to be seen when using the tv as a monitor.

Notwithstanding, I set my pace box to 720 and send via DVI. I prefer OAR.

CNET Top 100 products of 2003.

The Home Entertainment section has top 10 home entertainment products of 2003. It has 3 TV's, Samsung HLN617W is the only rear projection TV.

Samsung HLN617W
Digital light processing (DLP), a rear-projection TV technology that uses a chip with thousands of tiny mirrors instead of a standard cathode-ray tube (CRT), can deliver a bright picture that doesn't need periodic adjustment. Samsung's second-generation DLP sets, such as this 61-inch behemoth, take full advantage of the technology with slim, light cabinets, and excellent processing.

http://dpreview-cnet.com.com/4520-6022_1-102337-1.html?tag=more

Arun

What do you think of buying an HLM507W that has had the mother board replaced with the HLN input?

It would come with an extended warranty.

Is the potential cost savings worth it or should I just buy new?

Thanks

Joe Nash

Joe, there are too many variables here for me to give you an informed opinion. In the end it will be a personal decision based on common sense. To a very large extent, it will depend on how much you trust the seller.

From a technical point of view, I don't see an issue as long as the firmware is 214 or higher, and it has the Faroudja FLI2300 chip.

Arun, is the 1248x702 resolution still the way to go for 1X1 pixel mapping from a PC thru DVI for the Sammy DLPs? If so, do you or someone else have an inf file for that resolution for Powerstrip? If you do, what folder do I download it into so that Pwrstrip can see it?

Thanks

Doh!!! Nevermind about the inf file. I just found the copy/paste function in Powerstrip. I found the timings on the other thread.

BTW Arun, thanks for that service menu spreadsheet. That must have been alot of work.

I tried using Powerstrip to change the resolution to 1248x702, but it drove me crazy because I had to manually switch the Sammy to "Normal" (from PC-Wide) every time I switched to DVI. I'm constantly switching between DVI (HTPC), Component3 (Comcast HD STB), and S-Video3 (ReplayTV), and I found it easier just to live with the overscan and get a clear PC image immediately upon switching to DVI rather than first having to push a lot of buttons to switch to Normal to get a clear image--and then losing the resolution as soon as I switched to another input again.

Does anyone have a fix for this issue?

I also changed back to the 1280x720 resolution for the same reason. The overscan is a lesser inconvenience than toggling through all the aspects.

Many of the programs -- e.g. Internet Explorer -- have a feature that allows you to minimize overscan issues. Open up Internet Explorer, size it so that fits exactly in the displayed window, and then close it. Next time you open it, it will remember the size and position.

Hey guys. My new HTPC looks great on my HLN617W thru DVI but there is one small problem. The PC will not boot up with just the Sammy connected. I also have to have a regular PC monitor connected to the VGA port on the video card for it to boot up all the way. Once it has booted, the card does recognize the Sammy as the primary display and then turns off output to the VGA port. But the next time I reboot I must have the VGA monitor connected or the PC will not boot all the way. The error reports suggest that the video card is the culprit.

I have a Radeon 9600 pro 128 with Cat 3.10 driver. My Sammy has ver 302 firmware. PC has Windows XP Home OS.

I have already tried removing the VGA monitor and display adapter from the system in device manager but that didn't work.

Any ideas guys? Anyone else had a similar problem? Could it be something in PowerStrip?

One temporary solution is to connect Sammy through the VGA port also.

I remember having the same problem, and I had to fiddle with the Windows display settings (Display Properties -> Settings -> Advanced -> Displays.) to get it to work. Do you have two displays enabled or one?

Try the 3.4 drivers if you're still having trouble.

I purchased my HLN 617 about a month ago and it appears to have "306" firmware. Does anyone have any tweaks for this firmware? Does the different firmware make a difference in the tweaks I have been reading about?

I just bought HLN4365W and the manufactured date on the set was Oct, 2003.

When TV power off, I tryied to access to SM by using remote control and pushing MUTE-1-8-2-POWER in sequence but I could not get into SM. (Medoly also turn off).

Did I do something wrong ?

Do I need to break-in the TV for certain hours before be able to get into SM?

or Samsung has changed the sequence ?

Thanks for your help.

You are doing the right sequence.

There were some reports a while back of some sets that didn't obey this sequence. I don't know if anything was resolved. Maybe someone else who may have experienced a similar problem can respond.

Have you tried entering the code when the TV is on? The sequence is power-mute-1-8-2-power.

The only problem I ever had with getting into the SM was by not doing the presses firmly enough and quickly enough. Try it faster and a bit firmly. Sometimes we either do it too slow in order to be sure we are pressing correctly or miss the buttons in haste to do it quickly! I really doubt the sequence has changed, and there was never any limitation on getting into the SM (hours, etc.)

I have a 4365 build Nov 2003 and the sequence works fine.

I programmed the sequence into a macro on my remote. Now it works perfect every time...

also be sure the start-up melody is turned off...

I'm pre-wiring my basement, and I'd like to set it up to connect my PC to a Samsung DLP. I'd like to run a DVI-I cable, so I have analog and digital options for connectivity. Will a DVI-I cable plug into the DVI port on a Samsung, or will I need a DVI-I to DVI-D adapter? Thx!

DVI-I won't work. It has to be DVI-D.

(To clarify, The DVI connector on the back of a HLN is a DVI-D connector. DVI-I cables are physically different, they won't fit into a DVI-D jack. If you feel like running DVI-I for other reasons, as Arun discusses below, you will definitely need adapters.)

Originally posted by earlofessex
I'm pre-wiring my basement, and I'd like to set it up to connect my PC to a Samsung DLP. I'd like to run a DVI-I cable, so I have analog and digital options for connectivity. Will a DVI-I cable plug into the DVI port on a Samsung, or will I need a DVI-I to DVI-D adapter? Thx!

DVI-I will work and it is a good idea to have the flexibility. There is length issue on DVI cables, and you need better DVI cables for longer lengths. So you should test that everything works fine before hard wiring it. You will need two DVI-A to VGA dongles to test the VGA part of it.

Originally posted by arungupta
DVI-I will work and it is a good idea to have the flexibility. There is length issue on DVI cables, and you need better DVI cables for longer lengths. So you should test that everything works fine before hard wiring it. You will need two DVI-A to VGA dongles to test the VGA part of it.

Arun,

Thx for the info. rknobbe points out that the DVI-I cable won't fit into the DVI-D jack on the HLN. My PCI has DVI-I out, so the cable would carry both the analog and digital signals. I assume that means I would use a DVI-I to DVI-D adapter if I want to connect to the DVI port on the TV, or the dongle if I want to connect to the VGA port on the TV.

For PC connections, will I notice a difference between DVI-D and VGA? Thx.

Is there any difference between Sammy HLNxxxW and HLNxxx (e.g. HLN617W and HLN617)?

TIA,
-Tennis

Originally posted by earlofessex
Arun,

Thx for the info. rknobbe points out that the DVI-I cable won't fit into the DVI-D jack on the HLN. My PCI has DVI-I out, so the cable would carry both the analog and digital signals. I assume that means I would use a DVI-I to DVI-D adapter if I want to connect to the DVI port on the TV, or the dongle if I want to connect to the VGA port on the TV.

For PC connections, will I notice a difference between DVI-D and VGA? Thx.

"DVI-I cable won't fit into the DVI-D jack on the HLN" -- this is news to me. The purpose of a DVI-I cable is to fit both DVI-D and DVI-A ports.

For PC connections, you will notice a difference between DVI and VGA, but it is not a huge difference.

Originally posted by tennis
Is there any difference between Sammy HLNxxxW and HLNxxx (e.g. HLN617W and HLN617)?

TIA,
-Tennis
The full model number is HLN617W. There is no HLN617, but some people just abbreviate it.

Originally posted by arungupta
"DVI-I cable won't fit into the DVI-D jack on the HLN" -- this is news to me. The purpose of a DVI-I cable is to fit both DVI-D and DVI-A ports.

For PC connections, you will notice a difference between DVI and VGA, but it is not a huge difference.

Arun,

I contacted Samsung tech support, and this was their response:

Dear Customer
The DVI-I will not fit on the DVI-D, we attached a document with different specifications about DVI cables.
Thank you

However, there was no attachmet.

Sound like rknobbe was right. Now, to find a DVI-I to DVI-D adapter...

arun, what is your post CES opinion onthe new DLP

Originally posted by earlofessex
Arun,

I contacted Samsung tech support, and this was their response:

Dear Customer
The DVI-I will not fit on the DVI-D, we attached a document with different specifications about DVI cables.
Thank you

However, there was no attachmet.

Sound like rknobbe was right. Now, to find a DVI-I to DVI-D adapter...

I got bit by this problem also. I pruchesed an HLN567 at the end of Nov. I ordered the Momitsu V880 and a DVI-I cable from Pacific Cable. When the cable and player arrived I found I could not plug the cable into the HLN567 but it fit the V880. The femal connector on the HLN567 does not have the extra sockets around the single horizontal socket and the pins on the cable have no where to go. I had to re-order a DVI-D cable and this works fine.
Rick

Originally posted by earlofessex
Arun,

I contacted Samsung tech support, and this was their response:

Dear Customer
The DVI-I will not fit on the DVI-D, we attached a document with different specifications about DVI cables.
Thank you

However, there was no attachmet.

Sound like rknobbe was right. Now, to find a DVI-I to DVI-D adapter...
I stand corrected. It changes my perception of what DVI-I cables are supposed to do.

Originally posted by mikesan1
arun, what is your post CES opinion onthe new DLP
First opinion, its cold here in CT. Brrrrrrrrr........... What's this white stuff on the ground. :confused:

OK, here is a whole thread on this topic
New DLP RPTV's at CES 2004
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=348001

For people looking to buy a new Samsung DLP, you MUST read the relevant posts in this thread for now. I shall get all the Samsung specific info into the Samsung DLP guide soon.

Originally posted by arungupta
I stand corrected. It changes my perception of what DVI-I cables are supposed to do.
I don't think it is necessarily an issue what DVI-I cables are supposed to do but that maybe Samsung used a cheaper DVI-D connector on what they feel is a digital TV.
Rick - from sunny Florida (42 deg this morning)

Originally posted by arungupta
I stand corrected. It changes my perception of what DVI-I cables are supposed to do.
Hi Arun,
These pictures should help: http://www.cable4pc.com/dvi-756.htm
I think you thought of the opposite: DVI-I connector can accept both DVI-D and DVI-A cables.

Hope it helps,
Kirill

Other than screen size, is the HLN567W identical to the HLN507W?

Arun,

First let me say thanks for all the Samsung DLP info. I'm in the market for a 42 - 50 inch HDTV and have narrowed it down to the Sammy or the GWIII 42. I have some space issues (@47 inches wide) that are part of my decision making process. I could only go with the 42 GWIII, but since no side speakers I could go with the 50 Sammy DLP (price considerations noted). My question to you has to do with my current DVD/audio system. I have a Bose 321 system which I use as my DVD player and also supplemental audio. Have you heard or experienced anything regarding using the 321 with 50 inch Sammy DLP?

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by Chipden
Arun,

First let me say thanks for all the Samsung DLP info. I'm in the market for a 42 - 50 inch HDTV and have narrowed it down to the Sammy or the GWIII 42. I have some space issues (@47 inches wide) that are part of my decision making process. I could only go with the 42 GWIII, but since no side speakers I could go with the 50 Sammy DLP (price considerations noted). My question to you has to do with my current DVD/audio system. I have a Bose 321 system which I use as my DVD player and also supplemental audio. Have you heard or experienced anything regarding using the 321 with 50 inch Sammy DLP?

Thanks in advance.

I haven't heard of any compatibility issues, but as long as the 321 has component output, it should work fine. The video electronics in the Sammy will take over from there.

BTW, I'm very impressed with the Bose 321 system. I'm sure you must like it a lot.

Originally posted by Gilley
I haven't heard of any compatibility issues, but as long as the 321 has component output, it should work fine. The video electronics in the Sammy will take over from there.

BTW, I'm very impressed with the Bose 321 system. I'm sure you must like it a lot.

I do like the system for audio a lot! I few salesmen at various stores have told me though that to get the full picture quality of a GWIII, I'd need to get a better DVD player. Apparently its missing something. scanning? Pprogressive vs non?? I'm obviously not a techy, but I saw in Arun's document that if you use component out, non progressive is better. I wasn't sure if this makes yet another star in the Sammy list versus the GWIII.

Thanks

With Samsung DLP, non-progressive is better because the TV itself is much better at deinterlacing / scaling than most DVD players.

If you are considering a new DVD player, make sure it has a DVI or HDMI output.

Chipden, why not get the 46" sammy?

Originally posted by Taylormade2
Chipden, why not get the 46" sammy?

I just haven't seen one at the store near my home. I'm sure that would fit my space needs also. I'll check it out.

Thanks

Originally posted by arungupta
With Samsung DLP, non-progressive is better because the TV itself is much better at deinterlacing / scaling than most DVD players.

If you are considering a new DVD player, make sure it has a DVI or HDMI output.

Looks like I may have problems with my Bose 321 & the Sammy. This is a part of a C/Net review of the 321

"The DVD/tuner can decode Dolby Digital and DTS movies, as well as MP3 CDs. Bose is really promoting this system's simplicity, so it should come as no surprise that only basic connectivity options are built into the system. There's one composite and one S-Video input. If you have two devices that have only composite-video outputs, such as a VCR and a game console, you won't be able to connect both to the 3-2-1. To connect the system to your TV, there's a composite and an S-Video output. For a list price of $999, we expect component video outputs. But unless your TV is larger than 32 inches, you'll find the video performance acceptable. For audio connections, there's one optical digital audio input, as well as two coaxial digital audio inputs. We'd prefer to trade a couple of those digital audio inputs for more video inputs. "

Will this lack of output options limit my DVD PQ?

Seriously, ChipDen, you are so much better off just buying a $200 Bravo D1 DVD player and connect it through DVI (or another DVI player of your choice). You will have an order of magnitude better PQ than anything you could ever hope to get out of your bose system. Otherwise, you are not really taking advantage of the TV's features and you are really wasting your money on the TV.

Arun, did you see the Xhd3 at the TI booth 5000:1 contrast. I thought it was not significantly better than the 56" Sammy @3000:1 Mikesan1

Originally posted by arungupta
Seriously, ChipDen, you are so much better off just buying a $200 Bravo D1 DVD player and connect it through DVI (or another DVI player of your choice). You will have an order of magnitude better PQ than anything you could ever hope to get out of your bose system. Otherwise, you are not really taking advantage of the TV's features and you are really wasting your money on the TV.

Thats what I thought. Thanks for your help. And again, thanks for all the info. you put up here for rookies like me.

Chip

Originally posted by mikesan1
Arun, did you see the Xhd3 at the TI booth 5000:1 contrast. I thought it was not significantly better than the 56" Sammy @3000:1 Mikesan1
Yes, I did. Its covered in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=348001

I agree with Arun. It's being penny wise and pound foolish to spend $3k-$4k on the HLN and then not spend $200-$300 to connect it to a DVI DVD player.

I have both the Samsung 931 and the Bravo, and either one will give you amazing PQ with the HLN -- anything less, and you might just as well keep you old TV.

Originally posted by Kevin R. Anderson
I agree with Arun. It's being penny wise and pound foolish to spend $3k-$4k on the HLN and then not spend $200-$300 to connect it to a DVI DVD player.

I have both the Samsung 931 and the Bravo, and either one will give you amazing PQ with the HLN -- anything less, and you might just as well keep you old TV.

I'm assuming that Bravo is a brand? I haven't seen them at any od the big boxes (BB,CC HH Gregg). Who cares them?

Here is a link to where you can purchase a Bravo (you can also try E-bay)

http://vinc.com/

The Bravo can be temperamental and hang on you (I've had good luck with mine), but it has a slight edge in PQ.

My two cents is that unless you are "geeky," go with the Samsung 931 or wait until new players come out in the next few weeks or months.

I personally like the 931 (it is slow and the remote can be unresponsive), but it's been reliable and a good performer connected to my HLN via DVI. However, you must play 4:3 and nonanamorphic material through component connections because the 931 stretches everything to fit the 16:9 screen (bummer).

I bought my 931 at Ultimate Electronics where, for an extra $60, I purchased the option to exchange it within two years. As soon as the 941 hits the shelf, I will be there, receipt and 931 in hand.

I really do speak the language. What I meant to say was:
I'm assuming that Bravo is a brand? I haven't seen them at any of the big boxes (BB,CC HH Gregg). Who carries them?

I've been following the recent posts about the 321, and agree with all of them...pro and con. I have a 321 hooked up to mine, and the PQ is just not as good on some DVDs as it should be. The sound is actually pretty good, given that the whole premise of the system is to create a synthetic 5.1 effect. I have the DVD connected through the S-Video input, and it is kind of a bummer that componet connections from the 321 arent possible. I have connected my older Sony DVD player through the component jacks, and the picture is noticeably much better, but to do that I have to run the audio lines through the 321's aux jack. with a very NOTICEABLE drop off in sound...you need a pre-amp, or something, because there just isn't alot of sound from the aux jack, either quality or volume wise.

However, since my standards are low, and my tech abilities even lower, the 321 system suits my needs very well right now. At some point, I am sure I will get the Bravo DVD player everyone here is talking about and get a genuine 5.1 sound system.

Mo

That's too bad that the 321 system doesn't have component video. I would have thought it would for almost $1K. I agree with the others, get the HLN and spend a couple hundred on a dedicated DVD player with DVI out and run the digital audio through the 321.

Originally posted by Gilley
That's too bad that the 321 system doesn't have component video. I would have thought it would for almost $1K. I agree with the others, get the HLN and spend a couple hundred on a dedicated DVD player with DVI out and run the digital audio through the 321.

Yep, sounds like a plan. Now I just need to break the news to my wife that the TV I want is $3,800 (Sammy) versus $2,800 (GWIII). Luckily, I'm the money man of the house, I'll use smoke & mirrors.

See the link in my signature on new DVD players with DVI or HDMI output. The strongest options are likely to be Samsung 941 and Bravo D2.

Mind if I ask kind of a newbie question here? I'm just ordering a HLN507W, and am awaiting the new Samsung HD941, both for the DVI/HDMI but also for the SACD and DVD-Audio (DVI/HDMI is why I'm waiting rather than going for something like Denon's 2200 now). But I'm also planning on using a Comcast DVI cable box in the near future. Once I have the HD941 later this year, how can 2 DVI output devices be attached to the HLN507W? Is there something like an A/B box or router?

See - I told you it was a newbie question! ;)

Frank

frank3si -
See arun's signature link (i.e. DVI Switcher) in the post right above yours!
Regards,
Rohn

Thanks, rohn - don't know how I missed that. I'd read the DVI guide and found it very interesting (which I should have re-read, because now I see there's a section on DVI switches!). In fact, reading that was my first exposure to DVI. This is a great place to learn! I'd guess that switcher prices will be coming down in the future as this becomes a more common feature...

Frank

As far as I know, the DVI is disabled on all Comcast boxes. I've been told (by the highly suspect COmcast CSR team) that the new Comcast HD DVR box will have the DVI enabled, though.

Thank you all for the help yesterday, I really learned a lot in a day thanks to this thread. I'm still trying to get up to speed on the various Samsung models. The 50 & 43 both seem to have two models (ie HLN437W vs HLN4365W) seems to be a few hundred price diff. Can someone tell me what the tech diff is. Also, why is the 46 more expensive than the 50's. Is that a newer model. I haven't seen any 46's in stores around Cincinnati.

Thanks

I would wait for the 46" because it is the new model. It's been available in the Orlando area for about a month now.

Originally posted by Chipden
The 50 & 43 both seem to have two models (ie HLN437W vs HLN4365W) seems to be a few hundred price diff. Can someone tell me what the tech diff is. Also, why is the 46 more expensive than the 50's. Is that a newer model. I haven't seen any 46's in stores around Cincinnati.

Thanks

There are currently 2 "slimline" Tantus models, HLN437W and 467W) and 2 "regular" models (HLN4365W and HLN5065W (same as HLN507W - just different numbers for different stores) in that screen size. Although the Tantus model is relatively new, all of these models will be replaced this year by the HLP Series, which, if you read the DLP CES thread, offers significant improvements over the HLN Series.

Can there be incompatibility between the HDCP software that is used by a cable box (Pace for example) and the software used by the tv (HLN4365 for example)?

In Tampa, BHN just enabled HDCP and many with DVI connections to their DLPs are not getting pictures via DVI.

I have not checked mine but did do some investigation by calling BHN. They tell me there may be incompatibility.

If that's the case, why have the standard in the first place?

Yes, this has been discussed in 2 or 3 other threads. The problems seem to stem from one or the other pieces of equipment not following the standard exactly. This is a new, apparently somewhat complex, standard, and there are bugs.

Does anyone have a full list of descriptions for the SM settings in the SM menus?

Basically definitions for the rather cryptic menu descriptions.

Well after reading the great reviews I went ahead and ordered my HLN4365W. A couple questions:

1) I have a Kenwood DV-5900M 400 Disc DVD changer which has the Faroudja chip in it. Is the chip in the TV newer (or better), meaning should I turn off the progressive scan option on the DVD itself?

2) I do have a nice HTPC setup with a radeon 9700 Pro graphics card on the HTPC. Everyone says using a DVI-D connection to the TV set would yield the best DVD playback quality from the HTPC. Is there a DVD changer for the PC that I can purchase to replace my Kenwood? This changer would have to at least change 300 discs.

3) Is there a guide somewhere for non-professionals to get into the service menu of the TV and calibrate some of the settings?


Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by mostwantd1
1) I have a Kenwood DV-5900M 400 Disc DVD changer which has the Faroudja chip in it. Is the chip in the TV newer (or better), meaning should I turn off the progressive scan option on the DVD itself?
Try both and see which you like better... Depending on how/where the de-interlacing is being done your DVD player may still outperform the DCDi in the set.


2) I do have a nice HTPC setup with a radeon 9700 Pro graphics card on the HTPC. Everyone says using a DVI-D connection to the TV set would yield the best DVD playback quality from the HTPC. Is there a DVD changer for the PC that I can purchase to replace my Kenwood? This changer would have to at least change 300 discs.

Ask in the HTPC forum or in the DVD players forum


3) Is there a guide somewhere for non-professionals to get into the service menu of the TV and calibrate some of the settings?

This is well detailed in this thread as well as this other thread:
Samsung DLP -N- series tweaks thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=244193)

Beware boys who love their toys; sometimes their judgements (and enthusiastic reviews) are clouded.

As someone who purchased an HLN5065W in October, I've only been frustrated. Why you ask?

1) The A/V sync problems (discussed in other threads) - basically in certain circumstances there is a time lag between the actors lips and the sound. It can drive you to distraction unless you like the look of old Chinese action-films dubbed into English. There is supposed to be a fix, referred to as the "Malibu" chassis coming in February '04.

2) The internal reflection problems. This is supposed to be fixed by the new E10 lens (some of us who've had the replacement can't see the difference - it's possible that the Service Center technicians installed old defective lenses believing them to be the new improved ones - but neither we, they, nor the Samsung parts department in Long Beach, CA seem to know for sure)

3) The fact that the darkest shade the Sammy will display is gray-black, not black-black, due probably to a combination of inherent limitations of the TI's HD2 chip and internal light scatter.

4) Washed-out, muddy-looking, low-light-level scenes lacking in shadow detail. I believe that this is due to the same factors as #3.

5) Samsung (independent contractors) Service Center Technicians who work on many different brands of TVs, and seem to have little knowledge of, or experience servicing, the Sammy and its problems. A number of Sammy owners have had to advise and guide the technicians regarding the repair that the TV repair guy is supposed to be performing.

By the way: you will not see any of these problems while viewing the HD, brightly-colored quick-cut loops that are being displayed on HDTV closed circuits at GG, BB, CC or other mass-market retail outlets, and I'm not sure that the higher-end retailers will share the above info with you (unless of course, they've trying to sell you a plasma, LCD or LCOS product)

Remember, you are purchasing a state-of-the-art, high-tech product costing thousands of dollars, so you shouldn't expect that the build quality, reliability, black-levels, or shadow detail would be as good as that of your 8-year old 30" curved picture tube CRT set.

Caveat emptor.

So true. I really prefer watching HD football and other programming on my 8 year old 30" CRT. . . .oh, wait I can't. Nevermind

How prevalent is this a/v sync problem? I see there is a whole thread for it. Does everyone have this problem or are they isolated incidents?

Originally posted by CraigSharrow
Beware boys who love their toys; sometimes their judgements (and enthusiastic reviews) are clouded.





I admit I am a boy with a toy, so that may explain why I am still on cloud nine with my HLN617W (v2.14 purchased in July) , but I wonder how to explain my many friends (some very critical) who are drooling over my HLN? (Not to mention my wife who admits it was worth the $$!!)

We just saw Last Samauri in a DLP theater and SHE
commented how horrible the picture was (non HD)!


Oh well, I am shopping for an HLN467 for our bedroom!
Guess we boys never learn! :D :D :D


Ignorance MUST be Bliss!!!

"Oh well, I am shopping for an HLN467 for our bedroom!
Guess we boys never learn!"

DWK,

What are you expecting to pay for the 46?

Isn't it great when your wife and/or girlfriend loves the Sammy DLP as much as you do and also thinks it is worth the money? :D I'd like to get a 46 inch for the bedroom too.

Originally posted by Gilley
Isn't it great when your wife and/or girlfriend loves the Sammy DLP as much as you do and also thinks it is worth the money?

Yeah, it's great when the wife and the girflriend both share the same opinion :)

Whoa whoa WHOA!! How would your WIFE feel about that? :D

This post has been rated M for Mature. :)

Later,
Jeffro toodles off to watch some more Enzyte commercials with the Ever-Smiling Tom and his butt-ugly grinning wife


Originally posted by Gilley
I'd like to get a 46 inch for the bedroom too.

Originally posted by Chipden
How prevalent is this a/v sync problem? I see there is a whole thread for it. Does everyone have this problem or are they isolated incidents?

I haven't heard about many who have complained about this and I wonder if it is in the TV. I have noticed a problem occasionally with my Sammy but I figure the problem is in the cable box not the TV because the TV sound always is in sinc with the surround sound.

I think there's always at least a slight sync problem with mine, though I've pretty much gotten used to it. I don't know whether it's the Sammy, the PVR (SA8000) or the Iscan Ultra that causes it. Maybe all contribute.

I should be getting my Yamaha RX-Z9 next week, which has lip-sync compensation, and that should end the matter.

Originally posted by Sea Ray
I haven't heard about many who have complained about this and I wonder if it is in the TV. I have noticed a problem occasionally with my Sammy but I figure the problem is in the cable box not the TV because the TV sound always is in sinc with the surround sound.

Sea Ray (like the name BTW), I see you are also from Cinti., where did you get you Sammy and how is warner cable working with it?

Chip

PS I assume your name referes to the boat, I have a 22 footer

As a former professional commercial photographer, I think my eyes are still capable of perceiving colors, contrast levels, resolution and shadow detail. So let me pose this question to all those HLN owners who ARE satisfied with their sets:

(Note: See Post 1224 (a few posts up) for litany of "problems")

Is it possible that any of the following might cause my PQ to differ from yours:

1) Any differences in optics between the 43, 46, 50, 56, and 61 sets?
2) Any differences between the "vanillla" and the "tantus" models?
3) Differences in the internal geometry of the light path?
4) Cabinet differences that might increase/decrease light scatter?
5) Different optics in the various sizes
6) I got a "lemon"

I am posing serious questions, inasmuch as I'm trying to determine whether the "problems" I see are (a) only in my set, (b) a function of the 5065W design, (c) a function of plain vs. Tantus; and, whether I would be better served getting a different 5065 or opt for a different size/model.

I do love the PQ of the HLN when I have an HD signal AND a non-low-light-level scene, i.e. football games, outdoor shows, and high contrast (vs low contrast) scenes.

Originally posted by Chipden
Sea Ray (like the name BTW), I see you are also from Cinti., where did you get you Sammy and how is warner cable working with it?

Chip

PS I assume your name referes to the boat, I have a 22 footer

Did you get my private message sent a few days ago? Time Warner is working fine for me but I don't have anything else to compare it to. I do sometimes wonder how Directv with a DVI enabled box would do.

(I've got an open bow 20 footer. You're interested in a DLP sammy and a you have a Sea Ray...Sounds like you've got awfully good taste :) )

Originally posted by CraigSharrow
As a former professional commercial photographer, I think my eyes are still capable of perceiving colors, contrast levels, resolution and shadow detail. So let me pose this question to all those HLN owners who ARE satisfied with their sets:

Is it possible that any of the following might cause my PQ to differ from yours:

1) Any differences in optics between the 43, 46, 50, 56, and 61 sets?
2) Any differences between the "vanillla" and the "tantus" models?
3) Differences in the internal geometry of the light path?
4) Cabinet differences that might increase/decrease light scatter?
5) Different optics in the various sizes
6) I got a "lemon"



Sounds like all you need is a good professional calibration. After studying these forums, I've made numerous tweaks via service menu on my set. It's not a professional job but it looks pretty good to my eye. I've tweaked colors (mainly green) and contrast to help with those low light scenes you mentioned. The fact a $3K set needs a $400 calibration is another gripe but I think that's where you are headed.

Originally posted by CraigSharrow
Is it possible that any of the following might cause my PQ to differ from yours:

1) Any differences in optics between the 43, 46, 50, 56, and 61 sets?
2) Any differences between the "vanillla" and the "tantus" models?
3) Differences in the internal geometry of the light path?
4) Cabinet differences that might increase/decrease light scatter?
5) Different optics in the various sizes
6) I got a "lemon"

Craig,

It sounds like you are experiencing the same thing that I was with my first HLM617W. Samsung ended up replacing my set with a new HLN series DLP, which has been MUCH, MUCH better. You might try getting a calibration, and if that fails to improve the picture, I'd suggest swapping it for a different set.

-John

Hi
Inspired by Arun Gupta and others on this board i got myself a 617w.Have had it for two weeks now. I also bought , as advised by Arun, Samsung 931 DVD, cox Box with DVI, and Pacific cables. I am a trifle disappointed because the picture quality is nowhere as stunning as what one imagined/saw in retail showrooms.

The issues i have been facing are:

1)With just the DVI cable connecting the DVD to the TV theres no sound. I have to separately connect the usual soun cables. Does DVI not support sound? Or should i be connecting my cable box directly to the TV? (Cox tells me that their DVI is NOT active yet)

2)Apart from when i am playing a DVD, when i go close to the screen i see the usual patterns/pixels. Any suggestions?

3)Im unable to change the brightness and other settings? The picture quality is very different from what i saw at stores.

4)My TV came without any box! its a brand new purchase direct from Samsung- who say that it was supposed to be a whiteglove delivery so he didnt send the box! DId anyone else face the same problem- is there any way of distinguishing a refurb from a new model?


5)Lastly how do i connect the internet to the TV?I have a IBM Thinkpad t40 with wireless lan access both B/G.

THANKS A LOT AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM and TO YOUR FAMILIES

Athreya

I love my HLN437W. Don't have the sync problem. Don't have internal reflections.

I had it calibrated two weeks ago and the picture is great. The black are decent. Better then the Sony LCD I had. But not a good as a good CRT. Right now I am watching "Assassins". I has a lot of dark scenes and it looks damn good.

Bank One - I don't recall Arun recommending the 931. I think he is using the Bravo.

hi
arun has recommended both.pls see thread above.
how does one get a calibration done? how does it help?

I recommend the Bravo D1, not the Samsung 931. Samsung 931 has two serious issues 1) its colorspace is PC 0-255 not video 16-235 which crushes blacks and whites 2) you can't watch 4:3 programs except in stretched mode through DVI. In comparison, Bravo D1 issues are minor.

Also see the thread on new DVI players, see my signature. Samsung 841, 941 and Bravo D2 look very promising.

i saw an earlier thread somewhere where you mentioned both. can you kindly answer my other questions? would really appreciate that. the thought of having burnt 5K is giving me sleepless nights !

1)With just the DVI cable connecting the DVD to the TV theres no sound. I have to separately connect the usual soun cables. Does DVI not support sound? Or should i be connecting my cable box directly to the TV? (Cox tells me that their DVI is NOT active yet)

-- DVI does not include audio. The audio input port that matches DVI is separate. The same audio port is also used for PC input.

2)Apart from when i am playing a DVD, when i go close to the screen i see the usual patterns/pixels. Any suggestions?

-- If you pause your DVD or source, if the pixel pattern pauses, then the pattern is in your source. In dark areas you can still see moving pixels if you are really up close -- that is DLP dark shades dithering used to increase grey levels in dark areas.

3)Im unable to change the brightness and other settings? The picture quality is very different from what i saw at stores.

-- Why are you unable to change? User mode settings has all the controls to change them.

4)My TV came without any box! its a brand new purchase direct from Samsung- who say that it was supposed to be a whiteglove delivery so he didnt send the box! DId anyone else face the same problem- is there any way of distinguishing a refurb from a new model?

-- Check how many hours it has, using the service mode menu. See the HLN guide (my signature) on how to access the service mode.

5)Lastly how do i connect the internet to the TV?I have a IBM Thinkpad t40 with wireless lan access both B/G.

-- You can use a PC/VGA connection. Ideally you should your Thinkpad resolution to 1280x720 (I think Thinkpad T40 supports it). User Powerstrip if you have to. Also changing your TV aspect to TV-wide will give you much more clear picture with 1x1 pixel mapping - but unforunately it will have some overscan.

i will try each of these and report back immediately.honestly i owe this purchase to you! thanks a lot

i was reading the doc and on page 13 the person said you should use s-video over component but i thought component was better than s video could some help with this or is it just a typo

typo, should've said S-video over composite.

Hi:

It's taken me about a week, but I've finally read every post in this thread. Lots of great information. Can't wait to try some of it out when my HLN507W gets delivered on Wed.

A couple of things I don't think I've seen addressed:

I am also getting a Dish921 HD/PVR and I already have a HTPC with an All-in-Wonder 9000. Both have DVI out. The AIW also came with a DVI to VGA dongle. Is there any reason I can't use that to convert the DVI signal from the 921 to VGA? Assuming that is possible, which way would I be better off, connecting the 921 to DVI and the HTPC to VGA, or vice versa? Or should I drop another 350 bucks on the Geffen switch?

I haven't seen any discussion of using a HTPC for DVD playback. I would think that would be as good or better than any of the DVI enabled SA players. Am I missing something?

-Chris

2) you can't watch 4:3 programs except in stretched mode through DVI.



Not totally true. You can adjust the aspect on your TV. Mine had, PC Wide, TV Wide and Normal. Normal did not fill the screen but looked great.

Or you can also add component or S-Video and switch to those when viewing 4:3 DVD's for full screen viewing.

I have experienced some voice delay on some of the cable channels (one program on Tranvel Channel BHN Central Florida) but the voice delay did not occur on the HD channels. I'm wondering if it is the cable box or not. The delat is the same whether the sound comes from the TV or through the A/V unit.