I think I can answer 2 of 3.
1- I believe auto volume is only available through the ANT connection.
2- Since Component 3 doesn't accept a 480i signal, film mode is not available.
3 - MTS Audio? Dunno, never use it.

Originally posted by Lane Goldstein
I have an HLN 617w it is 720p native. My SA3250hd cable box lets me set it to 720p or 1080i most of the programs are in 1080i should I have the cable box set to 1080i or 720p for the best picture with 1080i content or is it better to just leave it at 720p. I can set it to pass-thru or fixed or manually change it for each show.

I went thru the same questions (hln437w) w/ the same box. I originally had the STB set to 1080 and didn't even learn about Pass Through option until later. I've now set the native on the STB to 720 and the Pass Through option. I don't notice an appreciable difference, but I guess it makes sense since we're 720 native.

I certainly wouldn't want to manually change it for each show...gotta go to the can once in awhile!

Thanks Vinny

Spinal...I suggest you try the DVI connection with your Pace box. The output is significantly better than component. Regarding your other comments...it's true that many menu options disappear with the higher-def inputs.

On my Pace box, I set the "pass" option to allow the TV to do all the conversions...although, I admit, setting the box to always convert to 720p provides nearly identical results. The exception seems to be analog feeds coming into the Pace, where the TV seems to do a slightly better job. BTW...the Pace box can be configured to convert analog feeds to a minimum of 480p. The default configuration, as delivered by BHN, was to leave the analog feeds at 480i regardless, which caused problems with the Sammy on DVI and components 2 and 3.

Hey guys, I thought that I would post my question about some DLP weirdness I am having with my HLN617W in this thread. I had been having an ongoing problem with connecting my PC to my TV via the VGA port. I was using the native screen resolution 1280x720 60Hz, but I kept getting these weird green and purple vertical lines that were only really visible on text. Well I finally got that fixed yesterday, I did an Auto Adjust in the PC menu on the television and then one or two clicks on the fine adjustment and the PQ looks amazing now, can't wait till I can finally get a DVI card. I was playing some DVD's via Zoomplayer last night to test it out and was blown away. This is without even running any filters as my current P3 933 isn't really up to the task. However I did notice something that is kind of a concern to me, if I stretch a window so that it takes up the whole screen area, on the right side of the screen the window will be touching the edge of the screen on top while at the bottom of the window it is about 8-9 pixels shy of reaching the screen edge. The bottom of the screen seems good, what I can see of the taskbar is even all the way across. On the left side the top and bottom of the window are touching the screen edge but there is like a 1-2 pixel curvature inward towards the middle of the screen. The top of the image seems a bit slanted also, but only one or two pixels across the whole screen. As far as I can tell from looking up close at the pixels I do not see any blurring in the areas where this is happening, everything looks crisp, but I am concerned that something might be off in the set. I am currently using a NVidia GF4 TI4200 over VGA but I plan on getting a 9800 Pro or similar when I get the cash. So if this could possible just be an issue with the VGA signal I can live with it. But if there is something possibly wrong with my set I would like to get it looked at.

the top picture isn't that great it is hard to see the edge of the screen.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&attachmentid=21167

Here is the bottom pic, it is really obvious from this one.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&attachmentid=21168

Any ideas as to what might be wrong are greatly appreciated.
Jay

Do you have the TV set to PC Wide?

Originally posted by Gilley
Do you have the TV set to PC Wide?

No I have it set to Wide TV and just deal with the overscan for now. I don't really want to set it to PC Wide as I want to maintain a 1:1 pixel mapping.

Jay

I was browsing Samsung's website in hopes of finding info on HLP's when I noticed a link to Tweeter... which called the HLN:

Samsung HLN567W 56" Widescreen Tabletop HDTV Upgradeable DLP TV (http://www.tweeter.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1320780&cp=1124426&fCat=1124426&fpricesort=priceDescending&fbrandid=92282&parentPage=family)

Could anyone venture a guess at what upgradable might mean in this context?

Some retailers use the word "upgradeable" as advertising shorthand to mean that the HD tuner is not built into the set, but would need to be purchased separately for the TV to deliver HD performance.

I would not look for anything in the Samsung itself to be upgradeable, in the usual sense where you could buy over the counter components and hot-rod it. I would expect that the pattern of running changes (improvements?) that we have seen in the HLM series would continue, so in that context there would be upgrades. But again, not things that Joe/Jane Consumer would be doing to "upgrade" the performance of his/her set.

Bob

Just got a HLN467 delivered last Saturday. On Sunday started seeing flickering flashes of white or colored lines across the display. By Monday the video had deteriorated to a grid of closely-spaced white lines - it is as if you were looking at the screen through a wire mesh. I called the store and they are going to replace. Anybody have any idea what the cause of this failure might be? (I saw problem on two different component inputs - have cable on one, and DVD player on another.)

Also - I couldn't find "tint" adjustment. My picture mode adjustment in the menu had contrast, sharpness, color, and brightness. Where would I find tint adjust?

Originally posted by valleyengineer

Also - I couldn't find "tint" adjustment. My picture mode adjustment in the menu had contrast, sharpness, color, and brightness. Where would I find tint adjust?

No tint adjustments for HD inputs such as COMP 2, 3 and DVI. I think that is one of the few weaknesses of this TV and that is why so many of us have had to tinker in the SM or pay for a professional calibration. It is normal to not find Tint adjustments on the Samsung DLP.

Originally posted by Sea Ray
No tint adjustments for HD inputs such as COMP 2, 3 and DVI. I think that is one of the few weaknesses of this TV and that is why so many of us have had to tinker in the SM or pay for a professional calibration. It is normal to not find Tint adjustments on the Samsung DLP.


Thanks Sea Ray.

Check your manual. I don't think there is a "tint" control for component or DVI.

Sea Ray - I agree that a tint adjustment would be great , but it's no substitute for a professional calibration.

What are the useful differences in the Samsung TS360 vs the TS160?

Is it worth the extra cost?

I am looking for HDTV with my HLN467W.

Thanks

I have a 507W and Comcast released the SA3250 here this week. I need to pickup a cable for it. I read Arun's guide and checked the links. I also Froogled DVI-D Dual link and came up w/ this one for $10. Does anyone see a problem w/ it before I order (other than $10 for shipping)?

http://www.thenerds.net/productpage.asp?un=185172&s=1

Thanks for your input.

And where is Arun? His PM is full and this thread slipped several pages.

Originally posted by zebras23
... And where is Arun? His PM is full and this thread slipped several pages. He's been conspicuously absent. Life may have caught up with him and required that he spend some time elsewhere. I know that I've been feeling that way lately.

That DVI cable should be fine - I have not read anything about that particular brand/site to know if there have been any problems. It's an extremely good price - mine were $20 from Pacific Cables. It's been stated before the DVI cables are not like analog audio cables - you don't get better transmission of digital information if you get the $100 Monster Cables.

I have to agree, i am using the DVI-D that came with the Sam.931 DVD
, I tryed a friends $100 Monster cable, and I saw nothing diff. I am glad I did not waste the cash on that.
BTW, I tryed the DVI cable from my PaceHD STB and then tryed component and I was surprised to see the component was a better picture? It just makes no sense unless the DNIE makes that much difference, because it does not work with DVI.
SIDENOTE: I just traded in my HLN507W, for an HLN507W-1....its like having a whole new TV.

Originally posted by Spinal Tap
SIDENOTE: I just traded in my HLN507W, for an HLN507W-1....its like having a whole new TV.

Other than the fact that it IS a new TV, what prompted this comment? Is the W1 much better, or just different?

Originally posted by gakon
Other than the fact that it IS a new TV, what prompted this comment? Is the W1 much better, or just different?
From my experience, it's much better. I posted a review of it in this forum.

Kirill

Ill go with what Kir said it is much better , and Im sure his review will point out the most significant benefits . I will just say it has made the set more user friendly for a first time HD guy like myself.

bump

Speaking of which, PacCables are great. Quality and price.

On W1 being much better than W.

I have a 507W. I thought it was a W1 as the remote is different and the setup menu is also different. I have checked earlier posts and pictures of the remote and setup menu for W1.

but when I check the sticker back of the TV, it says HNL507W and the date of manufacture is Feb 2004. Do I have a w1 or W? Also, if it is a W can I ask CC to replace it with a W1?

Thanks

Check the component inputs. If it's a "W1" then all three inputs will be labeled "480i,480p 1080i, 720p". The older HLN sets accept "480i/480p" through component 1 and "480p,1080i, 720p" through components 2 & 3.

The "W1" sets also have an option to select from a list of names for the inputs.

Any update on the HLP sets? I'm getting very anxious...especially seeing much better prices on the HLN sets in the last couple months.

Originally posted by TH3_FRB
Any update on the HLP sets? I'm getting very anxious...especially seeing much better prices on the HLN sets in the last couple months.
Why do better prices make you anxious?

Because seeing that I can get a 507W for $3100 delivered to my door makes me want to do it right now and not wait 2,3,4 more months for the HLP and pay considerably more. The only thing holding mer back right now is the 7-segment color wheel and ungraded chip...I just hope the technical improvements result in real worl viewing improvements.

What do you expect the HLN prices to be when the HLP sets are in showrooms? I think the prices will be even better in August and September.

I'm expecting a lot from the HD2+ chip and the seven element color wheel too. I expect them to cost $500 to $1,500 more than the close out HLN sets this fall.

I'd expect the HLN sets to be on close out for maybe $3-500 less than current prices. My problem is that I really want one NOW. I'm not satisfied with my current 40XBR800 and dewcided that when I move into my new apartment that the set will go directly to the service center for a new tube and then I will eBay the 300lb pig for whatever I can get...it'll never see the new apartment. I might be moving sooner than I had planned...like next month potentially.

Originally posted by TH3_FRB
My problem is that I really want one NOW.
Sounds like speculating about the HLP sets is a non-starter. :D

zebras23,

Thank you for mentioning Comcast is now offering the SA 3250. Based on this, I exchanged my SA3100HD STB for the 3250 last weekend and connected it to my HLN617W using DVI. PQ on SDTV digital channels is much improved.

Bruce

Well, I want one now but could hold off much easier IF I had specific information about when the new model would be available. If I knew I could buy an HLP in June I'd be able to wait...but all I know as of now is that I'll be able to buy an HLP eventually...maybe June, maybe not...

Originally posted by htwaits
Sounds like speculating about the HLP sets is a non-starter. :D

And there will be something after the HLP to wait for too. And something after that.

Originally posted by TH3_FRB
Well, I want one now but could hold off much easier IF I had specific information about when the new model would be available.
There should be some solid availability information available at the 21-23 May Home Entertainment show. I would be surprised if you couldn't get an order for July delivery. I suppose it would also depend on where you live and how many patient folks order ahead of you.

Originally posted by BruceOmega
zebras23,

Thank you for mentioning Comcast is now offering the SA 3250. Based on this, I exchanged my SA3100HD STB for the 3250 last weekend and connected it to my HLN617W using DVI. PQ on SDTV digital channels is much improved.

Bruce

You're welcome. I hope to pick up mine this week and see what happens on my 507W.

Originally posted by BruceOmega
zebras23,

Thank you for mentioning Comcast is now offering the SA 3250. Based on this, I exchanged my SA3100HD STB for the 3250 last weekend and connected it to my HLN617W using DVI. PQ on SDTV digital channels is much improved.

Bruce

You're welcome. I hope to pick up mine this week and see what happens on my 507W.

XBox to Play DVD in 720p/1080i
Hello All,
I have a Samsung DLP 50 inch, and an xbox, I am attempting to play the DVD's on the xbox by using the $20 xbox hd pack and setting the video settings to 720 P enabled and 1080i enabled, however when i connect the xbox output to component 3- 720P and 1080I it says " Not supported Mode" any ideas why and the workaround??

It worksd okay when connected to component 1 which is 480i and 480p only, ...

Thanks

The MS supplied DVD player software in the XBox will only play at 480i - from what I understand, they couldn't get Macrovision working properly at 480p so omitted that capability. It was never intended to support 720p/1080i DVD playback.

You can get 480p output in the DVD player if you have a modded xbox and do a hex edit to the dashboard (check forums.xbox-scene.com).

Can't do anything higher without going the HTPC/XBOX route (installing linux on the xbox) also requires your xbox to be modded (in some way including the software hacks)

From what I read I doubt the HLP will be enough better than the HLN to justify the price difference over the great deals now on the HLNs. So I just bought an open box HLN5065 from the Sears regional outlet store at a price well below anything on eBay, connected it to a Bravo D1, and am thrilled with how DVDs look. The lamp stumbled coming on a couple times so I called Sears service. Very pleased with their response. I don't regularly buy from Sears but I think they have been great in every way with this purchase.

From what I read I doubt the HLP will be enough better than the HLN to justify the price difference over the great deals now on the HLNs. So I just bought an open box HLN5065 from the Sears regional outlet store at a price well below anything on eBay, connected it to a Bravo D1, and am thrilled with how DVDs look. The lamp stumbled coming on a couple times so I called Sears service. Very pleased with their response. I don't regularly buy from Sears but I think they have been great in every way with this purchase.

I posted this in the tweaks thread but no one seemed to reply, so i'm trying this one to see if anyone has any comments...

I've started to notice some pincushioning when in wide mode, on the top and bottom pushing down/up toward the picture slightly when viewing material that has black bars at the top and bottom.

I have read threads on this issue that talk about pincushioning on the left at right sides when viewing standard tv, but none in the opposite positions like mine.

Is it safe to say this is just a “feature” of the DLP like standard tv pincushioning is? Or does anyone think this is actually fixable by a service call?

I have an HLN5065, purchased this January.

Thanks in advance!

I've never noticed the problem in Wide mode but it is obvious when watching 4x3 material in Normal mode.

I think it's a feature of the short throw lens set up in the shallow cases used for micro chip displays and does not have anything to do with DLP, LCD, or LCoS specifically. That's just my somewhat vague impression that I've picked up reading in this forum.

I don't know what the odds are of improving the problem with a light engine replacement. There doesn't seem to be a control that can correct it.

I was surprised to see that the 55" Loewe DLP and it's Carl Zeiss lens had the same problem.

I have a HLN4365 and can not get a signal when using dvi connections for pc. I have a 5900U video card. What am I doing wrong?

htwaits, thanks for the info on the pincushioning. I initially thought it was just one corner dropping down a bit, but then I noticed the slight curve on the top and bottom. It's nothing I can't get used to, its just unfortunate I've had to get used to a couple of things with this set.

You really don't think the 7-segment wheel and new generation of DLP chip will e much of an improvement? I guess you need to factor the improvement against what you paid fr the HLN though. I almost talked myself into the HLN507W myself...brand new and delivered for under $3k makes my credit card start to melt through my pocket :)

Originally posted by Rich C Harkness
From what I read I doubt the HLP will be enough better than the HLN to justify the price difference over the great deals now on the HLNs.

A friend of mine is picking up a 61" Sammy DLP. He's asking me what DVD player should he get.

I know there are a couple players out there with DVI outputs, but he might want to use the DVI input on the set for his HD cable box.

What's a good DVD player for this set, and do you guys use the DVI input for your DVD player or HD cable/satellite box?

Low Roller

The DVI output on the Motorola boxes seems to give a washed out picture. I've heard this is true on TV's other than the DLP, but I can't confirm. I've since gone back to using the DVI for my DVD player (an HD-931).

Personally, I think there is more improvement to be gained by using a DVI cable from the DVD than from a cable box for HD. HD is already a significant improvement over SD. Some people don't notice as much improvement using DVI vs. component from DVD - I think it's all up to the viewer. One of the benefits I saw was significantly less color banding.

I believe there are a several choices for DVI players - the Samsung 941 (and 841?), Bravo D2 (and D3?), Panasonic 59i, Denon 5900, Momitsu 880. You get to do your own research, but I'm reasonably happy with my 931. I purchased it when the Bravo D1 was the only other option, and that had some quality issues (since resolved). The 931 has its own problems, the worst being an inability to properly scale non-anamorphic DVD's. I don't know if this has been fixed on the 941. You'll get a lot more information if you search around.

Originally posted by gakon
The 931 has its own problems, the worst being an inability to properly scale non-anamorphic DVD's. I don't know if this has been fixed on the 941.
I think Samsung did it on purpose or through a lack of awareness of older Letterbox and 4x3 movies. I also hope they have changed their design in this area. :rolleyes:

Here is Arun Gupta's DVI/HDMI DVD player web page.

HD DVD Players - Update (http://www.digiupdate.com/251_HD_DVD_Players.html)

There should be some additional update information coming out of the New York show this weekend.

"The DVI output on the Motorola boxes seems to give a washed out picture. I've heard this is true on TV's other than the DLP, but I can't confirm. I've since gone back to using the DVI for my DVD player"

If you use the same setting as the component inputs you will get a washed out look, but if you increase the color and decrease the brightness I found the DVI Motorola output superior to the component output for my Samsung HLN 61" DLP.

Originally posted by PaulGo
If you use the same setting as the component inputs you will get a washed out look, but if you increase the color and decrease the brightness I found the DVI Motorola output superior to the component output for my Samsung HLN 61" DLP.

I agree - I just found the improvement using DVI to be greater (in my eye) for the DVD, and I don't feel like changing the settings to switch back and forth between the DVD and the 5100.

I just came back from the NYC HES and talked to the Samsung representative there. He said that the table top units with the new HD3 chip and the third gen light engine would begin shipping in June. The 2 tantus units (46" and 56") with the HD2+ chip and the 4th gen light engine would not be avialable until Sept, and they did not have any of these units on display. They did have a 56" pedestal unit on display with the HD2+ chip - it looked amazing - crisper and more 3D than either the HLN or the HLP HD3. I did not ask when those would ship.

What is the BIGGEST DLP, Samsung are coming out with?
Will all have DCDI?

HLP vs HLN, what r real differences..thnx

Actually the Pedestal unit was 50" I think, and I heard from another source it would be July/August. Also the 63" xHD 1080 unit would be in novemeber.

Do u have any info on 63 inch pls?

Speak English.

For more info on the new sets, see Arun's first (updated) post at the TOP of this monster thread. He has a link to his site with all the DLP news and info on the new and coming Sammie sets.

got this message from samsung CS today:

Dear Customer,
The HLN467W uses the HD2 Chip, the HD2+ only available in our HLN467W1 series, If you have further questions please contact us.

Thank you

is some there confused, or is this true?

Originally posted by Zapbuzz
got this message from samsung CS today:

Dear Customer,
The HLN467W uses the HD2 Chip, the HD2+ only available in our HLN467W1 series, If you have further questions please contact us.

Thank you

is some there confused, or is this true?

Someone is confused. The HLN467W1 has the HD2 chip.

The HLP series will have the HD3 and HD2+ chips. The HLPxx63 series will have the HD3 chips, and the HLPxx85W and HLPxx77W series will have the HD2+ chips. The xx is the screen size, and is availiable in 46, 50, 56 and 61" sizes, but this varies with the series.

Just had my 617 repaired (Buzz saw sound on startup & extra loud while on)

Best service technicians I have ever dealt with.
Ended up getting (under warranty)

a new light engine
a new digital board (was 214 now 316)
a new bulb

I took these two pictures of the light engine, notice one has a clear lens cover and one has a black cover...

Originally posted by DvST8
I took these two pictures of the light engine, notice one has a clear lens cover and one has a black cover...

Cool.... which is the new one?

I would say the bottom one (clear) is new since it's on the antistatic bag and the black one is the old one on the floor.

I don’t remember 100% that’s why I didn’t say.

Originally posted by Zapbuzz
got this message from samsung CS today:

Dear Customer,
The HLN467W uses the HD2 Chip, the HD2+ only available in our HLN467W1 series, If you have further questions please contact us.

Thank you

is some there confused, or is this true?

Can the HD2 chip be upgraded to the HD2+?

Originally posted by mnwilliams
Someone is confused. The HLN467W1 has the HD2 chip.

The HLP series will have the HD3 and HD2+ chips. The HLPxx63 series will have the HD3 chips, and the HLPxx85W and HLPxx77W series will have the HD2+ chips. The xx is the screen size, and is availiable in 46, 50, 56 and 61" sizes, but this varies with the series.

I've asked samsung cs for more details, it definatly makes more sense that the hd2+ and hd3 would be in the hlp series. should be interesting to see if samsung CS catches thier mistake.

I would love to get SAMSUNG 61 or 63 inch with DCDI, 1080P set, if available?

Is Samsung HLN's TV-Wide the best mode for movies?

Last week I bought and set up a HLN 50" DLP with my PC's ATI 9800 Pro card (DVI) based on info from this forum. While movies are supposedly best watched in TV-Wide mode, my PC desktop looks the sharpest when in Expand mode. Logic follows that movies should look the best in Expand mode as well.

Any comment or clarification is appreciated.

Originally posted by chinoman
Is Samsung HLN's TV-Wide the best mode for movies?

Only if the movie was recorded in Anamorphic Widescreen.

Acadamy Standard films (4x3) should be viewed on a Samsung DLP in Normal mode and Letterbox films should be viewed in Zoom mode.

If you want examples and further information on the web check the link at the bottom of my message. There is another explanation near the top of the list of threads for this forum.

Wouldn't "zoom" mode cut of the sides of letterbox (2.35:1) movies by blowing the picture up enough to fill the entire height of the 16:9 screen? Why wouldn't you just watch it in normal mode and accept the small black bars on top and bottom knowing that you're seeing everything the director meant you to see?

Originally posted by htwaits
Only if the movie was recorded in Anamorphic Widescreen.

Acadamy Standard films (4x3) should be viewed on a Samsung DLP in Normal mode and Letterbox films should be viewed in Zoom mode.

If you want examples and further information on the web check the link at the bottom of my message. There is another explanation near the top of the list of threads for this forum.

Nooooo! Please don't turn this into another 'Aspect Ratio' holy war thread! :(

Originally posted by TH3_FRB
Wouldn't "zoom" mode cut of the sides of letterbox (2.35:1) movies by blowing the picture up enough to fill the entire height of the 16:9 screen? Why wouldn't you just watch it in normal mode and accept the small black bars on top and bottom knowing that you're seeing everything the director meant you to see?
The Samsung aspect mode Zoom1 enlarges the image an equal amount in all four directions "until" the image reaches the sides of the 16x9 screen. There will be black bars top and bottom if the film's aspect ratio is greater than 1.77:1. If the film was done in a 1.85:1 ratio then over scan may clip off the thin black bars top and bottom. If the film's aspect mode is 2.35.1 there will be black bars top and bottom and the film will be seen as the director intended.

The Samsung aspect mode Zoom2 will do what you describe to widescreen Letterbox films. Normal aspect mode will leave black bars on all four sides of a widescreen 2.35:1 Letterbox film.

Originally posted by vlapietra
Nooooo! Please don't turn this into another 'Aspect Ratio' holy war thread! :(
This "guide" is dedicated to helping understand how the Samsung HLN sets work. There are no wars here. :D

What ever happened to Arun? Its been a long time since I've seen him post.

:(

Originally posted by htwaits
This "guide" is dedicated to helping understand how the Samsung HLN sets work. There are no wars here. :D
Whenever I read the phrase '... as the director intended' I feeling of dread overwhelms me. :p

Originally posted by vlapietra
Whenever I read the phrase '... as the director intended' I feeling of dread overwhelms me. :p
I'm sorry to hear about your "condition". Hang in there. The best minds in the world are working on a cure. :D

Not trying to start any aspect ratio war...guess I missed something here in the past...just curious ands a little confused now.

If you set your DVD player to output to a widescreen TV (assuming that's what you have) then it should never have black bars on the sides...only top an bottom...when viewing a letterbox or widescreen flick. I guess it would have bars on the sides if it were a 4:3 video and the DVD player knows this. In which case you could stretch it to fill the 16:9 screen but then sh*t get all distorted. Anyway, I'll wait till I get my set and play myself...just trying to clarify in my head.

Originally posted by htwaits
The Samsung aspect mode Zoom enlarges the image an equal amount in all four directions "until" the image reaches the sides of the 16x9 screen. There will be black bars top and bottom if the film's aspect ratio is greater than 1.77:1. If the film was done in a 1.85:1 ratio then over scan may clip off the thin black bars top and bottom. If the film's aspect mode is 2.35.1 there will be black bars top and bottom and the film will be seen as the director intended.

The Samsung aspect mode Zoom2 will do what you describe to widescreen Letterbox films. Normal aspect mode will leave black bars on all four sides of a widescreen 2.35:1 Letterbox film.

htwaits,

What's your thoughts on Expand (not Zoom 1 or 2) mode giving the best PC desktop image. Thanks.

chinoman

Originally posted by TH3_FRB
Not trying to start any aspect ratio war...guess I missed something here in the past...
There has been a lot of confusion but I haven't noticed a war unless it's the "Fill My Screen At Any Cost" folks VS. the "Give Me What The Director Created" folks. I'm in the latter group but see no reason to debate it. :)

If you set your DVD player to output to a widescreen TV (assuming that's what you have) then it should never have black bars on the sides...only top an bottom...when viewing a letterbox or widescreen flick.
This is true only if the TV aspect mode is also set correctly for the film you are viewing. For examples see the link at the bottom of my message.

I guess it would have bars on the sides if it were a 4:3 video and the DVD player knows this.
If the DVD player is set for a 16x9 display and the Samsung TV is set to Wide or Wide (TV) then a Academy Standard (4x3) film will be stretched and distorted. To display it correctly the TV needs it's aspect mode set to Normal. The Samsung HD-931 DVD player won't allow you to do this using it's DVI output which is why my examples use component output for Academy Standard and Letterbox examples. The Bravo D1 DVI enabled DVD player does not have this "design" problem. Hopefully none of the new DVI DVD players will have the Samsung glitch either.

Anyway, I'll wait till I get my set and play myself...just trying to clarify in my head.

It's a lot easier to understand if you have your own set. I did all the examples that I wrote about in a showroom with the DVI aspect mode crippled Samsung HD-931 DVD player. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by chinoman
htwaits,

What's your thoughts on Expand (not Zoom 1 or 2) mode giving the best PC desktop image. Thanks.

chinoman
The Samsung aspect modes I know about are Wide, Wide (PC), Wide (TV), Normal, Zoom1, Zoom2, and Panoramic. I must have missed Expand.

Since I don't have a Samsung TV I'll have to defer to an owner on that. Zoom1 enlarges the image equally in all four directions until the sides of the screen are reached. Zoom2 enlarges the image equally in all four directions until the top and bottom of the screen are reached.

"Expand" sounds like it should also change the image an equal amount in all directions as opposed to Panoramic which does the variable stretch that the CRT RPTV folks are so interested in.

Originally posted by Barrybud
What ever happened to Arun? Its been a long time since I've seen him post.

:(
When I contacted him he thought that he would be back with a report from the NYC Home Entrainment Show. Something must have come up that has delayed him.

Expand is part of the totally different OSD on the new W1's. Just got my W1 last nite and it looks way better OTB than I could ever get close to on my W model.

Originally posted by 1Mark1
Expand is part of the totally different OSD on the new W1's. Just got my W1 last nite and it looks way better OTB than I could ever get close to on my W model.
That's good to hear.

Is Expand a new aspect mode option? Do you know how it works compared to the standard HLN aspect modes I listed?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by htwaits
That's good to hear.

Is Expand a new aspect mode option? Do you know how it works compared to the standard HLN aspect modes I listed? [/QUOTE


All I can tell ya right now is when in vga or dvi mode the new choices are: wide tv, wide pc, expand, and 4:3. When using componet: wide and 4:3.

Still trying to figure it all out, can't believe how different it is from the W's.

Originally posted by 1Mark1
All I can tell ya right now is when in vga or dvi mode the new choices are: wide tv, wide pc, expand, and 4:3. When using componet: wide and 4:3.

Here is my instant theory.

Using DVI:

Wide (PC) eliminates over scan at the cost of 1x1 bit mapping.

Wide (TV) is the same as it is on all the older models and should be used for Anamorphic Widescreen films.

Expand is probably the same as Zoom1 and should be used for Letterbox Widescreen films.

4x3 is the same as Normal and should be used for Academy Standard 4x3 films.

I'm puzzled by your component choices unless Wide is clever enough to detect the difference between Anamorphic and Letterbox films and then display them correctly.

Do you have a HTPC or DVI enabled DVD player so that you can use the DVI input for playing DVDs?

No I dont have a dvi dvd player and could never get dvi to work on my W. Tried one time so far on this set and got signal not supported. I have a 9800pro and read alot of threads and set custom res's with powerstrip that work fine with vga but have had no luck with dvi and thats what I am after the most. Even moreso now that hdtv via component looks so great on this new set.

Originally posted by 1Mark1
No I dont have a dvi dvd player and could never get dvi to work on my W. Tried one time so far on this set and got signal not supported. I have a 9800pro and read alot of threads and set custom res's with powerstrip that work fine with vga but have had no luck with dvi and thats what I am after the most. Even moreso now that hdtv via component looks so great on this new set.
Have you checked out the Home Theater Computer forum? For some folks it just seems to work their first try and then for others the problems seem to come in bunches. Personal computers can be wonderfully complex at times.

You can find people with experience in the Home Theater Computers (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=63) forum.

There is also information here.

Guide to Samsung HLN Sets - DLP 2003 (http://www.digiupdate.com/P001_Samsung_HLN_DLP_2003.html)

DVI, HDMI and HDCP – a Practical Guide (http://www.digiupdate.com/G002_DVI_HDMI_and_HDCP.html#_Toc62776218)

Is anyone using a component to VGA connection on these DLPs?

I'm starting to believe that maybe hooking up tv via vga FIRST could be the problem: XP reconizes tv as an analog monitor thru vga, then when switching to dvi it still thinks it's an anolog monitor and only sends analog signal out of the dvi-i. That's the way it is acting. I think I will try re-installing xp and see what happens.

1Mark1

I have an ATI 9800 Pro also, and it has native 1280 x 720 support, therefore no need for powerstrip. I have never used the VGA input for my Samsung.

Expand mode's image size falls in between Wide-TV and Wide-PC, and still has overscan problem. In my case I can live with it when doing PC works, for the benefit of a much sharper image than Wide-PC.

I am still curious why Expand provides a sharper desktop image than the 1:1 Wide-TV mode.

I use powerstrip to set custon res within a res to get rid of overscan. (1248x698) This set does overscan more than my other one.



I have never used the VGA input for my Samsung.

I think that may be the key.

I'm a happy canper now. Reinstalled xp and got DVI working from pc! May have been a powerstrip setting that changed my regular setings. Lost my nVdvd installer so I just installed power dvd. Which player is the best one out?

I'm getting choppy playback and slightly out of sinc audio now that I'm using the DVI and power dvd. This is at 1280x720.

According to the manual the expand option scales the picture to the aspect ratio of the input source.

4:3 Displays the picture as it is without changing the aspect ratio of input source.

Sorry to quad post but I just want to say everything is running fine now. :) Power dvd was causing the problems and now everything is fine. DVD's thru the DVI look much better now than they did thru VGA. I'm very pleased with my Sammy W1. Looks like a keeper and the price was right and haven't even been in the service menu. :)

Mark, may I ask what is difference between W and W1?

New and improved OSD and all 3 component inputs now support 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. W1 PQ out of the box was way way better than my W big time but maybe I just had a bad W. Also a new remote that supports descreet IR codes like the newer W's have. (my W didn't)

The "W1" sets also have a modified light engine to reduce internal reflections.

The "W1" sets also have a modified light engine to reduce internal reflections.

1Mark1,

Could you explain a little on this - "Power dvd was causing the problems". I am using PowerDVD as well. Thanks.

Anyone get the Samsung remotes to control other things?
I have a Samsung 61" LCD RPTV (Australian version- Identical chassis to the US HLN mode butLCD not DLP) and the remote is apparently mulitfunctional so that i can control other AV components.
Samsung remotes?

I've gotten my remote to work the cable box but that's it. It doesn't seem to recognize my dvd player

Originally posted by arungupta
Fellow Samsung DLP owners, I just had my VOOM DBS service installed today.

WOW!!! 25 channels of HD with excellent picture quality on my Samsung set. I will NEVER be able to watch movies, sports or discovery type programs in SD again (with the exception of DVD's).

And it is only going to get better - with 14 more HD channels to be added in the next few months for a total of 39 HD channels (See my signature). I'd consider VOOM still to be in a sort of beta test phase. The first installations were on November 4. Considering how new it is, it seems to work reasonably well and I expect the minor kinks in the box and the service will get fixed soon.

Initial cost for one room including installation is $750 (2 room $1250), but there is a money back guarantee till 3/31/04. The programming is also free till 3/31/04. After that a basic package with ~25 HD channels + SD channels is $39..95 - you can add premium services on top of that. The installation includes an OTA antenna.

For the time being, I am also keeping my DirecTV service, but cutting my bill from $90 to $40/month.

I really recommend this to Samsung DLP owners -- great retiurn on your investment IMHO. At this time, you should only consider it as an adjunct to your regular cable/satellite service.

Even though Sears sells this service, they do such a poor job that it is proabably a waste of your time to check it out there.

www.voom.com
1-800-GET-VOOM

There are numerous threads in the HDTV programming form. Search for VOOM.

Can Arun or anyone else who has subscribed to VOOM tell me whether the service is as good as it sounds in this post? Has the passage of time made VOOM a better service? The deals for new subscribers to VOOM seem to be better than the deals offered by either DirecTV or Dishtv. Any insight/advice would be appreciated.

Arun hasn't been here for several weeks so he may not be able to answer.

Originally posted by HLM507WFan
Can Arun or anyone else who has subscribed to VOOM tell me whether the service is as good as it sounds in this post? Has the passage of time made VOOM a better service? The deals for new subscribers to VOOM seem to be better than the deals offered by either DirecTV or Dishtv. Any insight/advice would be appreciated.

My recollection was that Arun dropped the Voom service with concerns. Around the same time he removed the Voom link from his signature. You should find another post from him about his reasons.

I got VOOM in late May and I have been enjoying it. The PQ is great. I decided to try it because there is no upfront fee and no contract so I figured that I have nothing to losde. I havent been able to see how it performs in the rain because we havent had any lately. I've heard of rain fade problems. If you really want to learn about VOOM check out the voom forum on satelliteguys.us.

I've had VOOM for several months and love it. Great Pic quality. Looks great on my Sammy DLP.

At the end of May I finally dropped DirecTV - :)
..
Looking forward to more from Voom in the future.

Cheers,

Geoffrey

$750 dollars!? That seems a bit steep for any type of beta HD service. Reguardless of the 25 channels.

I think the $750 figure is outdated. I think they have plans now where you get "free" installation where you lease the equipment kind of like a cable box

Originally posted by Sea Ray
I think the $750 figure is outdated. I think they have plans now where you get "free" installation where you lease the equipment kind of like a cable box

Correct. Apparently, there are two choices of program content, one for 39.90/month and one for 79.90/month. Its 9.50 month for the hardware. Free installation includes the box, the satellite dish, the remote, and an OTA antenna (for local Digital/HD broadcasts) mounted on or near the dish. No minimum term, and no cancellation fees. So, I decided to bite the bullet and give it a try, and if I don't like it, I'm only out the programming and rental fees for the time I've used the service. So we'll see how it plays out.

Has anyone been able to get the Comcast remote for the Moto 6200 to operate the Sammys? If so what code did you use?

Just received my new Samsung HLN617W1 yesterday. I'm new to all the technology terms (HDTV, STB, OTA, DVI, HTPC, etc, but learning quickly). My last tv, receiver, speakers purchase was nearly 10 years ago and have been reading the avsforum only since yesterday. Hopefully I didn't make a mistake by buying the HLN instead of waiting for the HLP.

Now the question I'm unable to find an answer is: Do I need to buy (from Dish Network) a HD receiver? If so, is it the 811? and then also buy a DVI switch if i want more than one DVI input to the HLN617W1.

BTW, looks like i should get the (sub $250) samsung 931 dvd player with dvi out.

Does anyone know how to display images from a digital still camera (in my case a Fuji Finepix 2650 with xD memory chips and only a USB output) on the HLN5067 without going through a PC? A friend is able to plug his memory card or stick directly into his 61" Sony LCD HDTV monitor thus making it into a great "slide projector" but the Sammy doesn't have that capability. Ideally what I would like is a small box I could plug the xD card into that would then connect to the monitors DVI input. The box would need a button to step throught the images. Next best would be a way to interface the USB on the camera directly to the HLN. Appreciate any ideas.

Sony TV's only support Sony mem sticks I believe. You probably will have to go thru a PC if your camera doesn't have a rca to TV (mine does). There may be a usb to rca video adapter out there but I doubt you will find a usb to dvi.

In my searches for various HTPC hardware and media server hardware, I have ran across "set-top-boxes" that have this sort of feature. What I found wasn't designed for strictly this purpose, as they usually had other features as well, like MP3 playback and streaming video play back. I wish I could recall the exact products, but it's been a little too long ago that I did this research.

As I recall, there were quite a few TV Photo viewers out there, but those generally only hooked up via S-Video, so finding one that supported the full res of the DLP sets may be an issue.

Try doing some google searches and see what you come up with. They do exist.

--Eric

Edit:

Your question got me curious, so I did a quick search and found a review of the SanDisk Digital Photo Viewer (http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/sandisk_dpv.html) . It's only one of S-Video versions, but maybe they have newer models out now. It could at least give you a starting point.

Originally posted by Rich C Harkness
Does anyone know how to display images from a digital still camera (in my case a Fuji Finepix 2650 with xD memory chips and only a USB output) on the HLN5067 without going through a PC? A friend is able to plug his memory card or stick directly into his 61" Sony LCD HDTV monitor thus making it into a great "slide projector" but the Sammy doesn't have that capability. Ideally what I would like is a small box I could plug the xD card into that would then connect to the monitors DVI input. The box would need a button to step throught the images. Next best would be a way to interface the USB on the camera directly to the HLN. Appreciate any ideas.

Check with Fuji, they might make an adapter for your camera so you can view your picture thru the composite inputs.

Originally posted by apan
BTW, looks like i should get the (sub $250) samsung 931 dvd player with dvi out.

There are better DVI players out on the market now (IMO) such as the Bravo D2 (and a lesser extent the Bravo D1) but wait a few months for the new Samsung DVI players to hit the market - HD841 and HD 941 - which will replace the HD931. The HD931 has known issues with black crush.

And Rich C Harkness, my Canon camera will do a slide show over composite video, which isn't the best, but it is better than nothing if you don't want to go through your PC. I have burned photos on a CD-R and played them on the Sammy DLP through my cheap Sammy DVD player.

Originally posted by Gilley
[B]There are better DVI players out on the market now (IMO) such as the Bravo D2 (and a lesser extent the Bravo D1) but wait a few months for the new Samsung DVI players to hit the market - HD841 and HD 941 - which will replace the HD931. The HD931 has known issues with black crush.


thank you. i realized this too, after reading digiupdate's HD DVD guide. i'm going to return my Sony Progressive-Scan DVD/MP3 Player Model: DVP-NS725P and wait for the new Samsung's as i bought the dvd before the TV. In the meantime, I am very interested in connecting my pc to the sammy (realizing that this may be more involved). If it works though, this should hold me over (who knows, I might skip the dvd if i can get the correct configuration re: 1 to 1 pixel mapping i've been reading here)

Originally posted by Rich C Harkness
Does anyone know how to display images from a digital still camera

I have been thinking about this box from Roku Labs:

http://www.rokulabs.com/products/hd1000/specs.php

It will do pictures and audio from your PC as well as from the cards right out of the camera. A nice part of it is that it is HD which would make for some great pictures. I am just torn because I am thinking that if they ever get the home media option on the HD DirecTivo then that will cover what I need. However, this device at only $300 looks like it may be good even just to tide me over.

Originally posted by Rich C Harkness
Does anyone know how to display images from a digital still camera (in my case a Fuji Finepix 2650 with xD memory chips and only a USB output) on the HLN5067 without going through a PC? A friend is able to plug his memory card or stick directly into his 61" Sony LCD HDTV monitor thus making it into a great "slide projector" but the Sammy doesn't have that capability. Ideally what I would like is a small box I could plug the xD card into that would then connect to the monitors DVI input. The box would need a button to step throught the images. Next best would be a way to interface the USB on the camera directly to the HLN. Appreciate any ideas.
There's a software program I use from Photodex called ProShow (http://www.photodex.com/products/proshow) which works very well. You can customize your slideshow with a plethora of transition effects and put music to your slideshow. It's very easy to use, and the new version lets you burn to dvd. It even let's you customize it for widescreen tv's.

I just purchased the Samsung 841 DVI DVD player and I cannot begin to tell you how much improved my DVDs are with this player.

I know Arun has urged everyone to to go DVI DVD as the most sensible addition to any Sammy purchase, but I never bought into it. I've always been under the mis-perceived impression that component is sufficient especially for "low definition" DVDs, and that "up-converting" is another marketing ploy since how could you get HD resolution out of a limited DVD resolution picture?

Boy was I wrong, simply going DVI on my HLN567W improved the picture dramatically, and up-converting to 720p added such eye-opening subtlety to the picture that even minor focus changes in a scene can create depth deep into screen, giving newfound reasons to re-watch my entire DVD collection just to see what I've been missing.

Movies such as Finding Nemo simply looked nice but unimpressive with component. Watching it via a DVI connection made it impressive. Watching it in 720p was shocking! Many scenes now look 3-D and with amazing texture details I didn't realize were there. I've watched the scene where Brutus the shark pretends to chomp Dory and Marlin so many times the bite's worn off. Watching again in 720p added just enough detail to the picture to re-energize that shock factor.

At $200 for DVI and upconverting it's a deal, throw in DVD-A and SACD support, it's a steal and no brainer!

DVDs are converted to 720p with component as well.

Originally posted by mmccking
I
Boy was I wrong, simply going DVI on my HLN567W improved the picture dramatically, and up-converting to 720p added such eye-opening subtlety to the picture that even minor focus changes in a scene can create depth deep into screen, giving newfound reasons to re-watch my entire DVD collection just to see what I've been missing.

Movies such as Finding Nemo simply looked nice but unimpressive with component. Watching it via a DVI connection made it impressive. Watching it in 720p was shocking! Many scenes now look 3-D and with amazing texture details I didn't realize were there. I've watched the scene where Brutus the shark pretends to chomp Dory and Marlin so many times the bite's worn off. Watching again in 720p added just enough detail to the picture to re-energize that shock factor.

At $200 for DVI and upconverting it's a deal, throw in DVD-A and SACD support, it's a steal and no brainer!

So why not just use the current 480I/P player and get a converter to DVI??

Gary, I realize that Sammy DLPs will convert all content to 720p using the Faroudja DCDI, however, it appears that the 841 is also do something different with its "up-conversion". I don't know what they're doing, but when you set the player to output 720p, the pq improves compared to when the DVD player is set at 480p (somewhat blocky pq, but better than non-DVI) or even 1080i (which looks to me like it introduces some slight flickering/shimmering of fine details like text on my TV).

Texas, the idea with DVI on the 841, 941, 931, Bravo and others is to avoid using the analog component and/or VGA interfaces. DVI (and HDMI) keeps the entire signal path from DVD disk to DVD player to HDTV, well...digital.

Originally posted by Texas steve
So why not just use the current 480I/P player and get a converter to DVI??
A DVD player using component outputs must convert the signal to analog before it can be sent. That's what using DVI outputs avoids. The 480i digital data on a DVD can be converted to 720p before it is sent to the TV using DVI. In that way there is never an analog stage to introduce errors.

All DLP RPTV sets display an image using 720p digital information. The point is to avoid any unnecessary conversions.

Having had a replacement DLP Engine since APRIL 27th I finally got a repair person to come last night - best time they could come was 8 PM - I just wanted it done so I agreed to this time.

The person who came, had NEVER seen a Samsung DLP and tried to install it to find that the picture had noise lines across the top and picture was at least I and half inches down on the right!!!!!! On some channels the picture looks as thought the side go in from the bottom. He called support to be instructed to adjust with screws but to no success. At 10.20 after telling him I needed to head to bed he finally left!!!!!!

The SHOCKING part of all this was that the person who came was a PC tech and not a TV tech. So IAI who Samsung gets to do there work is now employing PC techs instead of certified TV people.

Tomorrow I will speak with Samsung for sure.

Not at all happy.

Cheers,
Geoffrey

Forgive me if this has been covered before; but I wasn't able to come up with anything in a search, and this thread is up to 94 pages!

I've had an HLN series set for nearly a year. I have a Denon DVD player with DVI output, and have noticed that there is a very slight tilt to the picture. It hasn't bothered me. It's really only noticable on some widescreen films, where there's a narrow black band at the very bottom of the picture. "Chicago" is a good example. On the left side of the screen, the black band is very very narrow, or not present at all. On the right side, the band is maybe an inch high.

About a month ago, I got a cable box with DVI output. When viewing 1080i material, I often saw some garbage in the same area of the very lower right hand side. I figured it was a problem with the cable company, and as I intended only to use them temporarily, I decided to use the component output instead.

Now I have a DirectTV HD TiVo unit, and I'm experiencing the same thing. Only on 1080i, not on 720p. I could leave the TiVo at 720p, but I think the Samsung's Faroujda chipset probably does a better job of scaling 1080i native material. The effect is not visible at all on the left side, only on the right. There's a pattern, and also some movement that seems to be related to the picture on the screen.

How can this be adjusted? If it requires service personel, what's the best way to describe this problem? Have I made this clear? Should I take pictures of it?
:confused:

phaseshift,

This is a known issue with most if not all HLM and HLN units. The entire lens assembly needs to be adjusted with a couple set screws. Depends on how handy you feel whether you get a tech to do it or try it yourself. Most of the time it is helpful to have two people involved... one to watch the picture and one to adjust it. There is no electronic or service menu adjustment for tilt, it's this mechanical adjustment or nothing.

Some people have had good experience reducing but not quite eliminating all of the tilt. Other have made things worse or caused the pic to become out of focus in places. You pays your money or you takes your chances. :)

Hope that helps,
Jeff



Originally posted by phaseshift
Forgive me if this has been covered before; but I wasn't able to come up with anything in a search, and this thread is up to 94 pages!

I've had an HLN series set for nearly a year. I have a Denon DVD player with DVI output, and have noticed that there is a very slight tilt to the picture. It hasn't bothered me. It's really only noticable on some widescreen films, where there's a narrow black band at the very bottom of the picture. "Chicago" is a good example. On the left side of the screen, the black band is very very narrow, or not present at all. On the right side, the band is maybe an inch high.

About a month ago, I got a cable box with DVI output. When viewing 1080i material, I often saw some garbage in the same area of the very lower right hand side. I figured it was a problem with the cable company, and as I intended only to use them temporarily, I decided to use the component output instead.

Now I have a DirectTV HD TiVo unit, and I'm experiencing the same thing. Only on 1080i, not on 720p. I could leave the TiVo at 720p, but I think the Samsung's Faroujda chipset probably does a better job of scaling 1080i native material. The effect is not visible at all on the left side, only on the right. There's a pattern, and also some movement that seems to be related to the picture on the screen.

How can this be adjusted? If it requires service personel, what's the best way to describe this problem? Have I made this clear? Should I take pictures of it?
:confused:

The tech who tried without success to get my set fix with this "new DLP engine" was shocked at how poor the engineering was on this thing. He had to disable the fan which is there to cool and protect so that he could get to the screws. Not very good.

phaseshift, I'd call Samsung and see that they have to say about it - you never know they might replace it for you.

Cheers,

Geoffrey

I currently watch more TV than I do DVDs, so I have the HD tuner hooked up to my HLN507W1's DVI input over my Sammy DVD player (which has DVI out). However, everyone here seems to have their DVD players hooked up to DVI. Is there no difference in picture quality from the HD tuner between DVI and component out?

Originally posted by FreakyFink
I currently watch more TV than I do DVDs, so I have the HD tuner hooked up to my HLN507W1's DVI input over my Sammy DVD player (which has DVI out). However, everyone here seems to have their DVD players hooked up to DVI. Is there no difference in picture quality from the HD tuner between DVI and component out?

Yes, there's a difference but not as much as DVD's thru DVI vs component.

I hosted several friends over yesterday to watch all three LotR movies back-to-back (I still can't feel my ass :-).

However, before we started, I asked them which they thought looked better: an HTPC inputted into my 437's DVI port versus a plain-Jane DVD player fed into the 437's DVD (480p) Component1 input. While I thought the HTPC (which is using an old Radeon 7500 card) looked crisper, they thought the DVD player looked "better" (but none of them could say why).

Any interpretations of this?

The DVI port does not use DNIe. The component ports do use this picture enhancement. So the enhanced picture caused by the DNIe could have made up for the possible slight increase in resolution.

I wondered as much given that the up-conversion from 480 to 720 was being done by the DVD player software rather than the TV itself. Thanks.

BTW, it looked really great either way...I just wish the TV was smart enough to flip back to a normal aspect ratio when the stupid 4:3 DVD menus come up. You'd think that when buying a "Widescreen" version of a movie that the menus would also be in that format. *sigh*

Hi All:

Just recently found this forum prior to purchasing a HLN507 about two weeks ago. Found it very helpful in the decision process. For the most part, I'm happy with the purchase and am anxiously awaiting a new surrond set up to truly enjoy the thing. However, I'm hoping someone can help me out with an issue or two I'm having. CC and Comcast so far both seem to be clueless.

I have the set hooked up with Comcast HD (Motorola box I believe) through DVI (Dual link cable) and DVD through component 1. If I change from the DVI input to the DVD and the set loses the signal for whatever reason (no disc in player, player not on yet, etc.) when I try to go back to the DVI source, I get the "Searching for Signal" message for a few seconds then it says "No Signal". If the switch from inputs is made while there is a picture through both (i.e. movie is playing on DVD) then I can go back and forth without a problem. What is it about the action of changing inputs to a "dead" signal that causes the TV to lose track of all signals coming in? Shouldn't the set automatically recognize the DVI input whether there was signal from the Component or not? Interestingly, this happens both if the DVD player is completely off or if it's in 'screen saver' mode with no disc in the player. As mentioned, doesn't happen if there is actually a picture happening. Only way to get it back once I get "no signal" is turning off power or sometimes unplugging the DVI cable and plugging back in.

Second issue: When watching a SD picture through cable, if I cycle through the different aspect ratios, the picture becomes messed up (looks like two frames interlaced, with a bunch of lines across it). In my neo knowledge of all this, I understand this is because the input of SD can only be seen in the Wide TV ratio. (Correct me if I'm wrong please). That's fine and I can live with that. However, once I scroll back around to the original aspect where the picture looked fine, it's now screwed up as well. Shouldn't the set pick up on the fact that it's back in the correct aspect setting and display like it did before?

I'm trying to learn as fast as I can on all this so if I'm overlooking some blatanly obvious correction or setting, please clue me in to that. Apologies if this has been covered before but I haven't had time to make it through all the Sammy threads yet.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

The problem you describe with your Comcast box sounds similar to the problem that Pioneer and Pace boxes had prior to a firmware upgrade. Basically, the HDCP (copy protection) looses it's handshake with the TV, and so refuses to put out a signal over DVI. Firmware fixed the problem with Pioneer and Pace boxes. Sounds like you need something similar.

On your second issue...the effect is not normal...but I can't tell if you are watching SD program over your DVI port or not. Many people prefer SD material over S-video or antenna...have you tried that?

Tried to trouble-shoot my issues by putting cable through a component hookup and was not able to get anything. It's as if the box is set to output through DVI only. Admittedly, didn't try S video or antenna but DVI is the only way I've been able to get a signal out of the box. TV wasn't there when they installed so cable guy couldn't do his set up/check procedure.

Given your statement about preferences, can I take that to mean I could use DVI input when I want to watch a HD signal then switch over to S or antenna if I'm viewing an SD signal?

Also, where could I go for a firmware update? How does one get that done? I take it that's something I have to get from Samsung? Set was built in March of this year.

Thanks very much for your help.

Tried to trouble-shoot my issues by putting cable through a component hookup and was not able to get anything. It's as if the box is set to output through DVI only. Admittedly, didn't try S video or antenna but DVI is the only way I've been able to get a signal out of the box. TV wasn't there when they installed so cable guy couldn't do his set up/check procedure.

I had the same issue with my HLN567W. I solved it by calling comcast and telling them I was losing the image for my HD channels and they reset the software of the Motorola5100 box while I was on the phone. Once done I was told to shut of the box and unplug it for a few minutes (2-5mins). I plugged it back in and the box cycled for about another 5mins or so on its own. Since then no problems so far. I don't know if the problem you have might still be with the Samsung, but its worth a try.

That's good to hear. Comcast is coming out Friday so hopefully they can solve it then. On the phone, they made no mention of being able to reset the software on the motorola.

I have the same problem when switching from DVI to another component input an my HLN617 the Motorola 5100 or the 6200 (I swapped the box) looses the handshake and needs to have the DVI unplugged or the power cord unplugged to reset the cable box. Comcast (chief engineer) is aware of the problem and they are working with Motorola on a solution. The HDTV hardware thread also discusses this issue. Firmware 7.10 in the Motorola cable box is the first firmware that uses the HDCP and requires this handshake.

The problem you are having with SD material over DVI is (my guess) because your cable box is leaving the feed at 480i. The Sammy DVI requires at least a 480p signal. So...you could try setting your box to convert *all* material to 720p and see if that works.

On my Pace box.....and I don't know if the Comcast box offers something similar.....I set the box to work in "Pass-thru" mode....except for 480i material that the box deinterlaces to 480p. That allows the Sammy to do the scaling rather than the box, but also allows SD material to come thru on DVI.....

Check out the HDTV Recorders forum. There are several threads on Comcast Motorola 62xx set top boxes and problems with DVI. A firmware update messed up the DVI HDCP handshake (version 7.10). I have version 7.07 on my 6208 and DVI works great, but unfortunately firewire doesn't work properly. Version 7.10 fixed firewire for the most part but broke DVI.

Go figure...

Jeff

Originally posted by chinoman
1Mark1

I have an ATI 9800 Pro also, and it has native 1280 x 720 support, therefore no need for powerstrip. I have never used the VGA input for my Samsung.

Expand mode's image size falls in between Wide-TV and Wide-PC, and still has overscan problem. In my case I can live with it when doing PC works, for the benefit of a much sharper image than Wide-PC.

I am still curious why Expand provides a sharper desktop image than the 1:1 Wide-TV mode.


Hey Chinoman,

Im using an Asus 9600XT which also has native 1280x720 support but i cant seem to get it to display anything other than 1024x768. My screen sufferes from Underscan, which is about an inch up top and at the bottom, plus about 2 inches on the left and right!

I wouldnt mind getting it to 1920x1080 for DVD playback but that another day!

All help is kindly appreciated!

GLO,

FWIW, my experience with ATI cards by other vendors, such as Asus which uses ATI's chip only, through the years have been rather negative. They just don't seem to work as well as the cards made by ATI.

As you might have guessed, my 9800 pro is a complete ATI card, and I am quite happy with it. Installation was smooth and I did not have to do any tweaking at all.

Someone else in this forum has suggested if your Samsung has ever been set up using VGA port, you would run into problems when adjusting resolution using the DVI port. If this is your case, try searching for that guy's solution.

Originally posted by chinoman
GLO,

FWIW, my experience with ATI cards by other vendors, such as Asus which uses ATI's chip only, through the years have been rather negative. They just don't seem to work as well as the cards made by ATI.

As you might have guessed, my 9800 pro is a complete ATI card, and I am quite happy with it. Installation was smooth and I did not have to do any tweaking at all.

Someone else in this forum has suggested if your Samsung has ever been set up using VGA port, you would run into problems when adjusting resolution using the DVI port. If this is your case, try searching for that guy's solution.

Hi chnoman,

My Samsung has never been connected via VGA and only DVI.

I had previously read that some DVI connections are limited or cripled by the DVI cable reporting pin.

I will have a look for this info you mention, but i am not certain it will be relevant since i havent used VGA on my Samsung.

Any other suggestions from anyone?

Thanks in advance!

I think the only reason I had the choice of 1280x720 with 9800pro was because I had already added it with a nVidia 5900U. When I switched to a different install of XP I had to use powerstrip to add the 1280x720. You will still get underscanning when in PC WIDE mode and overscan when in TV WIDE mode at 1280x720. I haven't found the custom parameters to create a res within a res to eliminate the overscan on my HLP, 1248x698 (with correct parameters) used to work great on my HLN but the HLP overscans much more than the HLN. Can't get the text as clear on PC with HLP either.

Sorry if this is a repost, but my Panasonic 50LC13 works great at the Powerstrip resolution of 1184x666p@60Hz. Don't know if the samsung works at this screwy setting, but I hope so. I get no overscan, and only about 5% of the screen being interprolated.

Peter

1Mark1,

My 9800 pro is only the second video card used in my Dell 4550 (W2K since purchase), the first one being the generic ATI card that came with the Dell. When my 9800's installation was done per all written instruction given, 1280x720 was immediately available.


p.s. Does anyone have any thoughts on my old question: why Expand mode provides a sharper desktop image than the 1:1 TV Wide mode?

Well I had comcast out just to make sure there were no issues on the box side. Prior to the visit, I could receive the signal through DVI, just had to be careful not to change sources and risk losing the 'handshake'. Comcast guy was no help.

Now, I can't get anything through DVI, says HDCP authentication failed, Please use YPbPr connection for HD. I have no idea what that means, why it happens now as opposed to before. All comcast did was test the output from Component as well as DVI. I can get signal through component but it's not nearly as good PQ on the HD channels as DVI was.

Friends coming over tonight to watch some movies. Anyone on here now that might be able to help me out?

Even if I can't get it back tonight, would still appreciate some help from whomever. Thanks in advance

HLN507W with Motorola 6200 (firmware 7.10)

You might want to ask for help here too.

HDTV Hardware (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=25)

Your STB is failing to complete the HDCP handshake so it's telling you to use component input instead.

I think this is worth a try.

1. Turn off the STB.

2. Select DVI input on your TV.

3. Turn off the TV.

4. Unplug the STB from electrical power for a few minutes.

5. Plug the STB back into power.

6 Turn on the TV and wait for it to tell you that there is no DVI input.

7. Turn on the STB.

8. Hope they complete a handshake.

If this works then always have your TV on and DVI selected before you turn on the STB. Always turn the STB off before you turn off the TV. All this is sort of like a "cold boot" on a computer.

If it doesn't work then my memory has left something out or there is something wrong with your STB firmware and you should yell at your cable company.

Good luck.

for a couple of seconds there I was about to gush out some thanks, then I got the big blue "HDCP" message again. Is that a sammy generated message or something from the STB? At any rate, after a few seconds of it telling me to use the other inputs, DVI picture went away. Still works through component hookup.

A question or two for you before I yell at Comcast:
1-based on what I've described, you think the problem described above is an issue with the STB and/or firmware and not the sammy?

2-Would it have anything to do with me having component and DVI hooked up from stb to sammy at the same time? In other words, are the outputs mutually exclusive, generally speaking, on STBs?

Thanks for your help. I'll keep poking around the site and see if someone else might have tips.

Originally posted by newHDjunkie
A question or two for you before I yell at Comcast:
1-based on what I've described, you think the problem described above is an issue with the STB and/or firmware and not the sammy?

Yes but check with members here who are using the same model STB and TV.


2-Would it have anything to do with me having component and DVI hooked up from stb to sammy at the same time? In other words, are the outputs mutually exclusive, generally speaking, on STBs?

I don't think so. You are being stoped by the copyright code that requires that both the STB and TV be HDCP protected. They are so the most likely problem is the firmware in the STB.

Use a subject that gives the STB model and TV model along with "handshake problems" in this forum and the HDTV Hardware forum. You can also use the search function to look for "Motorola" OR "moto" AND "6200" in both forums.

Good luck again. :)

Originally posted by PaulGo
The DVI port does not use DNIe. The component ports do use this picture enhancement. So the enhanced picture caused by the DNIe could have made up for the possible slight increase in resolution.


That's what I used to think, because you couldn't switch it on/off. But if you look in the menus, it's switched to On with no option to turn it off. Also, if you leave it on the DVI input with ie. a HD cable box, turn it off, then go into the Service Menu, the main changes to the picture settings are done to DNIe, which says it is for all components. And changing the DNIe color settings while viewing DVI changes the color -- if DVI didn't have DNIe, you wouldn't be able to change DNIe settings in the SM with the set on the DVI input.



Separate issue/post:


Second issue: When watching a SD picture through cable, if I cycle through the different aspect ratios, the picture becomes messed up (looks like two frames interlaced, with a bunch of lines across it). In my neo knowledge of all this, I understand this is because the input of SD can only be seen in the Wide TV ratio. (Correct me if I'm wrong please). That's fine and I can live with that. However, once I scroll back around to the original aspect where the picture looked fine, it's now screwed up as well. Shouldn't the set pick up on the fact that it's back in the correct aspect setting and display like it did before?

This is because you have your 4:3 Override in your menu (power off, press Menu button) set to 480i. If you press the Display button on your remote while on a non-HD channel, the tye of signal looks like a bunch of thick vertical | lines. I had the same problem too, and used to watch non-HD channels through S-video because they looked so bad through DVI. But then I realized this was because they were coming through in 480i, which doesn't do well at all through DVI. So turn off your box, press Menu, and make sure you have your settings to 16:9, 1080i, and 480p (or Off if you want them in their 4:3 format up-converted to 1080i, instead of widescreen at 480p stretched).

HTH

Originally posted by cmf
I hosted several friends over yesterday to watch all three LotR movies back-to-back (I still can't feel my ass :-).

However, before we started, I asked them which they thought looked better: an HTPC inputted into my 437's DVI port versus a plain-Jane DVD player fed into the 437's DVD (480p) Component1 input. While I thought the HTPC (which is using an old Radeon 7500 card) looked crisper, they thought the DVD player looked "better" (but none of them could say why).

Any interpretations of this?

Did they mean "sharper" by "better"? Or just not "sharper," but "better" for other reasons. Perhaps the blurry look (moreso on the non-extended versions, because they are squeezing 3-4 hours of movie onto one DVD, while extended versions have the movie over 2 DVDs) seems more "cinematic" like the movie theater. I haven't watched the first two all the way through since I got my Sammy DLP earlier this year, but I was especially disappointed with the LOTR-ROTK PQ when I rented it. I'll be buying the extended version when it comes out, and I'm hoping for better PQ since the movie will be on 2 DVDs and have more room for a higher bit-rate.

I personally like having a sharper image, as sharp as I can get. I use my HTPC for everything but the sharpest movies (Spider-man Superbit, etc.).

Motorola 6200 Handshake problem ---> If you are going to watch TV, turn on the TV first, and after a while (maybe 10-15 seconds), then turn on the cable box. When turning off the TV, or switching inputs, turn off the cable box before switching or turning the TV off. I barely ever have to re-insert the DVI cable now that I've started doing this.

Originally posted by cyberbri
Motorola 6200 Handshake problem ---> If you are going to watch TV, turn on the TV first, and after a while (maybe 10-15 seconds), then turn on the cable box. When turning off the TV, or switching inputs, turn off the cable box before switching or turning the TV off. I barely ever have to re-insert the DVI cable now that I've started doing this.
I already gave him what amounts to the same advice. When he tried it he still had a handshake problem.

Maybe you can explain about the "re-insert the DVI cable" a little more. I don't have this problem with the LG LST-3510A OTA tuner.

"Re-insert the DVI cable" - when you lose the handshake, you can either unplug the box and re-plug the power cord in, or just do the same thing with the DVI cable. I prefer to do it with the DVI cable, because you don't lose all your station names, program times, etc. because it loses them from memory and has to redownload them.

Originally posted by cyberbri
"Re-insert the DVI cable" - when you lose the handshake, you can either unplug the box and re-plug the power cord in, or just do the same thing with the DVI cable. I prefer to do it with the DVI cable, because you don't lose all your station names, program times, etc. because it loses them from memory and has to redownload them.
Thanks. That may help newHDjunkie more than I did. He has firmware 7.10. Do you know if there is any problem with that version?

Yes, 7.10 is the firmware with all the problems - well, the HDCP authentication handshake problem anyway.

It's been known for a while, and supposedly they are working on a solution (new firmware version)...

I ran through the routine that ht suggested again just to make sure and the handshake still doesn't occur. Guess I'll just wait for a firmware update. A dish isn't really an option since I live up in the mountains and get pretty high winds so I'm stuck with Comcast for now. I love the TV and am glad you helped me figure out the issue was not with the set but the STB.

Try the DVI cable disconnect and see if that works.

Originally posted by cyberbri
Did they mean "sharper" by "better"? Or just not "sharper," but "better" for other reasons. Perhaps the blurry look (moreso on the non-extended versions, because they are squeezing 3-4 hours of movie onto one DVD, while extended versions have the movie over 2 DVDs) seems more "cinematic" like the movie theater. I haven't watched the first two all the way through since I got my Sammy DLP earlier this year, but I was especially disappointed with the LOTR-ROTK PQ when I rented it. I'll be buying the extended version when it comes out, and I'm hoping for better PQ since the movie will be on 2 DVDs and have more room for a higher bit-rate.

I personally like having a sharper image, as sharp as I can get. I use my HTPC for everything but the sharpest movies (Spider-man Superbit, etc.).

I didn't get into a long discussion over PQ, as the women in the room were all starting to glare at me and mouth "start the movie already." *sigh* :-)

These discs were the recently released 6-disc box set, so yes, each movie is on a single disc. On the HTPC, I thought it looked phenomenal, but I went with the room consensus and played it in our DVD player for that subtly (IMO) softer look.

I need to get a Superbit DVD just to see if I can tell a difference...any recommendations other than '5th Element' (I can't stand that movie)?

Spider-man Superbit (got mine a week ago for $19.99 at BB, and it came with a free pass to see Spider-man 2).

PQ is phenomenal - looks near-HD quality, IMO. No need to try and play it through your HTPC, as it will probably just look worse unless you really, really know how to tweak it. No need to spend the time, though, since it looks so great.

Originally posted by cmf
I didn't get into a long discussion over PQ, as the women in the room were all starting to glare at me and mouth "start the movie already." *sigh* :-)

These discs were the recently released 6-disc box set, so yes, each movie is on a single disc. On the HTPC, I thought it looked phenomenal, but I went with the room consensus and played it in our DVD player for that subtly (IMO) softer look.



If I were you, I wouldn't "ask" them which they want to see - just say "trust me, it looks much better this way" (and make sure you have a preset for the movie, etc. already set so you don't spend 5-10 minutes trying to nail down the perfect settings with them sitting there waiting). ;)

Does the "Film Mode" setting on my HLN4365W have anything to do with deinterlacing? I set my DVD player to "interlaced' and turning the Film Mode on and off had no effect. Isn't his set supposed to do deinterlacing?
Thanks.

Originally posted by bw191
Does the "Film Mode" setting on my HLN4365W have anything to do with deinterlacing? I set my DVD player to "interlaced' and turning the Film Mode on and off had no effect. Isn't his set supposed to do deinterlacing?
Thanks.

The Sammy's will ALWAYS deinterlace an interlaced signal before displaying it. They have to do this because they are a progressive display. The film setting controls the 3:2 pull-down detection, or detecting if the interlaced signal is originally from a film source. Film sources are 24fps progressive and they are stored on a DVD as 30fps interlaced in such a way that a true progressive frame can be reconstructed from the interlaced signal with out any loss of PQ. Video which is shot at 30fps interlaced can not be deinterlaced in this same fashion and usually results in a lower PQ when converted to progresive. Turning this feature off simply tells the TV not to look for film based content in the interlaced signal.

--Eric

Is there any advantage to turning it off? Or, in other words, is there any disadvantage to keeping it on all the time?

Originally posted by vlapietra
Is there any advantage to turning it off? Or, in other words, is there any disadvantage to keeping it on all the time?
If you are watching material that was created with video cameras like live sports, it should be better to turn it off. I don't have any idea if it's something you can detect in the final PQ.

Thanks, Eric.
All I know is if I send the display a progressive signal, it looks fine. I send it an interlaced signal and it looks more pixelated and unsmooth (Flim Mode on or off). Does this mean the deinterlacer on my crappy Philips DVD player is better than the one in the Sammy?

Originally posted by bw191
Thanks, Eric.
All I know is if I send the display a progressive signal and it looks fine, I send it an interlaced signal and it looks more pixelated and unsmooth (Flim Mode on or off). Does this mean the deinterlacer on my crappy Philips DVD player is better than the one in the Sammy?

I doubt the deinterlacer is better, but I think what you are seeing is the benefits of processing in the digital domain before going analog with the signal. IMO, the best feature of the Samsungs deinterlacer is it's ability to properly detect film vs video content, and then give you a good result either way. Many STB get confused on poorly flagged content, or content that switches back and forth between video and film. This results in a brief period of poor PQ because they generally use the wrong deinterlacing method. Whether or not this is worth it to you depends on what you've got for equipment and how you hook it up.

There is two schools of thought on whether or not to use the TV's deinterlacing.

1) Generally speaking, it is better to scale a digital source in the digital domain. This means that converting to progressive in the DVD player rather then sending an analog interlaced signal to the TV and letting it do the conversion.

2) The Fourdja chip in the Samsungs is generally accepted as being about as good as it gets for deinterlacing quality. This would imply that you are better off letting the TV do the deinterlacing.

In practice, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle, and depends on the very specifics of your setup and hardware. Are you using 480P via DVI or component? When sending 480i is it via component or SVideo? What is the quality/length of cables being used in each situation. Did you take the time to find the best TV settings for each input mode?

I don't have a standalone DVD player with progressive output, so I use 480i Component hook ups and let the TV do the deinterlacing and scaling. I do have HD cable hooked up via DVI and Component and a HTPC which is hooked up via DVI and VGA. The TV does a better job of scaling then my STB, so I let the STB output 1080i rather then 720p. In my case I would rate the over all quality of DVD/HD playback as follows:

1) DVDs and recorded HD content played back on my HTPC using a MyHD 120 Card via a 6' VGA cable. The MyHD card deinterlaces/scales to 720P and does so very very well. No deinterlacing artifacts with film or video based content. Some slight "wiggly lines" when displaying test patterns but not visible during movies, due to the VGA cable.

2) HD content from the STB via DVI at 1080i. Looks amazing! My only complaint about this, and the reason I rate it 2 instead of 1 is that when watching true 1080i video (not film), like a soccer game on iNHD, I see very noticeable tearing on any fast motion or pans. (I really wish they would have never adopted a 1080i standard for this reason.)

3) DVD's & HD content played back using software players (WinDVD decoders) via DVI at 720P. The "wiggly lines" on VGA are gone with DVI, but the software players and my video card don't scale and deinterlace quite as good as the MyHD card. The Windows Desktop and still photos have the best look, but motion video is some what softer with an occasional deinterlacing anomaly.

4) DVD's played back from my Toshiba 480i player into Component 1, where the TV scales and deinterlaces. PQ is still very good, but I see a little more "noise" in the picture then with any of the others. Particularly in areas of extreme color (dark blacks, or bright whites). The deinterlacing seems to be flawless though, as I never see any anomalies with this method, like I do using a software player. The Fourdja chips just do a great job of detecting film vs video content and do the right thing.


--Eric

FYI for those of you who said you had experienced the same issue I mentioned in earlier posts:

I was experiencing problems with my Sammy and my Motorola box losing their 'handshake' when I changed from one source to another. I previously had Comcast HD (via Moto 6200) hooked up on DVI. If I changed sources over to watch DVD, the communication would be lost between cable and Sammy. Only quick solution was to unplug DVI cable from Sammy and plug back in (which was entirely unacceptable for obvious reasons) or to feed it through component. (On a side note, when Comcast guy got there, his first question was, "why are you trying to watch it on DVI in the first place......I knew right then he wasn't going to be much help)

Two visits from CC tech and one from Comcast and it appears to be fixed without having to wait for new firmware for STB. After reading several posts here on AVS, I thought for sure it was the firmware version and would have to wait for Moto/Comcast to update. However, the CC tech decided to replace the board in the Sammy (I forget the name but it's the main box that does all the acceptance of signals into the set.....flex something or other....the box where the DVI jack is located).

This worked immediately and I started hearing the little 5 note jingle the Sammy plays when it turns on and detects DVI signal. DVI picture is back and no longer gets lost when I switch inputs, wife is no longer harping that I bought a $3k lemon, and I can move on to other HT projects.

Just wanted to let anyone know who may be experiencing the same thing.
Thanks to those who tried to help.

C

So the handshake issue may be Sammy board related? Interesting and good to know.

I don't have any issues with my Sammy 841 handshaking with my HLN617, but as soon as I get a DVI switch, I'm going to get the Pace 550 cable box with DVI out, which may or may not pose handshake issues. I think the Pace box bugs are fixed, but you never know.

Gilley-FYI- the Pace 550 DVI output from Brighthouse works great with the HLN here in central Florida. You need to upgrade ASAP.

Apparently so, at least in my case. I'll get the model #s of the board that was causing me problems and share it with the forum. At first, it was find on 'shaking hands' as long as I didn't try to switch inputs. After a visit from Comcast, it wouldn't show DVI picture at all.

All I know is, after having the Sammy for over a month now, and seeing hints of how good it could be, I'm glad to finally be watching problem free.


:)

Originally posted by RogRacer
Gilley-FYI- the Pace 550 DVI output from Brighthouse works great with the HLN here in central Florida. You need to upgrade ASAP.

I'm glad to hear that!!

I'm looking into a DVI switch ASAP so I can get the Pace box ordered.

This is only my second post although I've been reading the forum regularly since Jan. I recently had my HLN507W fully converted to a HLN507W1 by Samsung techs. This was in response to the audio/sync issue. All internal boards, light engine, switches were installed into my 507W case. Only the case, screen and internal speakers remain of the 507W. I now have all the features of the W1 (new remote and owners manual). And so I also have plenty of experience comparing the qualities/picture of both models. For the most part, audio/sync is better, internal reflections are much improved, blacks and whites are much more intense. My major concern is the whites are too intense (sometimes they can overwhelm your eyes and all detail is lost). I went into the SM to discover lots of changes from the 507W. The W1 has several new menus that the W did not. Even the DNIE menu has more in it than the older 507W (firmware 309). My new firmware version is T-MLB50NUS-1030. I'm not confident enough to make many changes in the SM because of the lack of info out there with the W1. I lowered the sub-contrast in the DNIE but I put it back to the factory setting because it didn't really help much. I watch OTA and Direct satellite with a Samsung TS-160 STB. The new set now has about 150 hours on the bulb. I'm hoping a professional callibration will help...but so far finding one with W1 experience is not easy (Detroit area). I'm hoping other 507W1 owners will read this and add their experiences...perhaps someone knows of a good callibration person in this area. Thanks to all.

What's this about an audio/sync problem? I have the HLN467 (I think that's the model, number, it's a 46" purchased last November), and I have an audio/sync prob that is most notable when I'm watching stuff off my TiVo, which is most of the time (which reminds me, where IS the HDTiVo I've been waiting for??

Can somebody else reading this tell me if there is an upgrade for the 46" model like you describe here for your 50" model that will reduce the sync prob?

Thanks,

--PS

Originally posted by driver49
What's this about an audio/sync problem?

Check out this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=295677&goto=newpost). It has everything you need to know about the audio/video sync issue and the fix that is being provided.

Ok guys... here is the link to the new thread with the service menu defaults spreadsheet in it. I am including it here so you can bookmark it just in case we get other contributors to that thread that don't post in this one. Enjoy!

Here's the SM Defaults Spreadsheet! (http://home.entouch.net/hayes/HLN617W1/HLN617W1DefaultSettings.xls)


Here's the link to the thread on the service menu defaults! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=423585)


Here's the link to the thread on the chips used and what each one does in the service menu! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=423597)

Here is the link to the thread discussing the Lip-Sync issue and upgrade kit! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=295677&perpage=30&pagenumber=1)

For posterity's sake, you may want to just start reading around page 50 or so of that thread. I think I've tried to include as much info as I have found with regards to the upgrade kit and my experience with it.

Also, played around more with the Contrast/Brightness with DVE through both component 1 via 480i DVD player and via DVI connection to my PC with WinDVD. VERY STRANGE behavior including no passing of PLUGE sometimes via the PC connection. Then it will pass... then it won't. Not sure what the hell is going on there. STill trying to sort that out.

Via Component input, the whites appear severely crushed regardless of what I do in the user menu. I've swicthed all the gammas on every input to 0 from 2. Differences weren't AS noticeable as they were in the past from 4 to 0. Perhaps they redid the gamma tables?

So basically, it appears that my blacks and whites are super boosted, but the bandwidth appears to be very limited thus far. Lots more tweaking needed. Feel free to contribute what you can to the other threads I linked. Lots of views, but no real info other than what I posted, unfortunately. Let us know what's what if you DO end up getting ISF'd.

Regards,
Jeff



Originally posted by RodWing
This is only my second post although I've been reading the forum regularly since Jan. I recently had my HLN507W fully converted to a HLN507W1 by Samsung techs. This was in response to the audio/sync issue. All internal boards, light engine, switches were installed into my 507W case. Only the case, screen and internal speakers remain of the 507W. I now have all the features of the W1 (new remote and owners manual). And so I also have plenty of experience comparing the qualities/picture of both models. For the most part, audio/sync is better, internal reflections are much improved, blacks and whites are much more intense. My major concern is the whites are too intense (sometimes they can overwhelm your eyes and all detail is lost). I went into the SM to discover lots of changes from the 507W. The W1 has several new menus that the W did not. Even the DNIE menu has more in it than the older 507W (firmware 309). My new firmware version is T-MLB50NUS-1030. I'm not confident enough to make many changes in the SM because of the lack of info out there with the W1. I lowered the sub-contrast in the DNIE but I put it back to the factory setting because it didn't really help much. I watch OTA and Direct satellite with a Samsung TS-160 STB. The new set now has about 150 hours on the bulb. I'm hoping a professional callibration will help...but so far finding one with W1 experience is not easy (Detroit area). I'm hoping other 507W1 owners will read this and add their experiences...perhaps someone knows of a good callibration person in this area. Thanks to all.

Link to the thread with 507W1 defaults (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3554122#post3554122)

Hope it helps,
Kirill

Thanks for adding yours, Kir. I plan on comparing your defaults to mine to see if there are any striking differences.

Thanks,
Jeff

Kir,

FWIW, I just compared the settings between yours and my sets. Unfortunately, we have different versions of firmware, so it's a more apples to lawnmowers comparison. :(

My newer 1030 firmware appears to have a few more SM settings than your 1017 does. Not sure if that's good, bad, ugly, or pointless.

Has anyone been able to score a W1 Service Manual yet? samsungparts.com didn't list one last I checked this weekend. That may help a little, just in determining signal path to account for color differences I am seeing on various inputs. Massive red push on ANT A in especially.

Thanks,
Jeff

Just verified with an HLM 617 owner that had the upgrade kit done to his set that his service menu defaults are EXACTLY the same as mine. So basically it sounds like these kits are in no way, shape or form calibrating a given light engine to a given digital board, as was indicated by every ISF and Samsung guy that's ever been asked, I believe. So almost assuredly, the color wheel DELAY setting will need to be checked and calibrated at a bare minimum with these kits.

I did more playing around last night. Seems as though the major culprit in my white/black crush issues is the PC via DVI connection. It appears that WinDVD is using at BEST 16-235 PC black levels as opposed to 0-255 video black levels. On the discrete gray ramps on Avia where you have like 10 different levels from black to white, the lowest two whites and highest two blacks are exactly the same. Playing with the different gammas did nothing to change that. There is something in the service menu that IS intriguing to me and I am thinking I might play around with it and see what's what.

For reference, using Avia via the DVI PC connection, NONE of the 3 black bars show up on the Pluge patterns. Nor does any type of needle pulse on ANY test.

In other news, the component 1 input connected to my 480i DVD player looks noticeably blurrier and jittery compared to the same DVD viewed over DVI from the PC. I never realized how much I was missing. I would love to check out your Arcam player and A-B test it vs. both my POS DVDP and the DVi connection PC player.

I'll keep y'all informed as the travails continue.

Later,
Jeff

Jeff:
How long have you had your set? I got a replacement last October from the one I got in March.

Now I am getting another replacement which will hopefully be delivered this week. I'll share the build date with you all and see if this one has any problems.

Cheers,

Geoffrey

Geoffrey,

Originally puchased the HLN617W in April of 2003. Had the v214 upgrade done in the July-August time frame from what I recall... though it may have been later. Had the lip sync kit installed to upgrade to a "W1" about a week and a half ago.

Good luck,
Jeff

I was over at my friend's place yesterday. He has an 61HLNW1 and we tried hooking up a Sammy 841 DVD player to the TV via DVI. All we got was snow. The manual said if you get snow it means the tv doesn't support HDCP copy protection.

Anyone else have this problem?

I haven't found this problem anywhere yet so here goes:

A few days ago, I started seeing (intermittantly) these vertical lines in the picture of my HLN4365W. First I only saw it in the center on the screen. The line is about 1/4 - 1/2" wide and goes from the top to the bottom of the screen. I have now seen them on the left and right sides as well. The lines look as if they are the result of misplaced color. Meaning it looks like the display is confused as to what information to display within the lines.

Does that make sense? I thought it may be the internal reflection problem, but that didn't sound like it would occur in straight lines like this.

Any ideas?
Thanks.

What inputs/signals? Is this component DVD? DVI HD cable? S-Video cable? Have you tried other inputs? If it's cable only, could it be your cable box?

DVI HD cable.
I guess it could be the box, it looked more like a display problem though.

Could it be the DVI cable?

Can you try through your S-video or component cables?

Have you seen it on any other inputs?

I'll have to do some more testing tonight.
Thanks.

Originally posted by Low Roller
I was over at my friend's place yesterday. He has an 61HLNW1 and we tried hooking up a Sammy 841 DVD player to the TV via DVI. All we got was snow. The manual said if you get snow it means the tv doesn't support HDCP copy protection.

Anyone else have this problem?

I have the 841 connected to my HLN617. I got snow too at first. Connect the player via DVI and component. The player is set to default output to component. Go into the setup menu and set it to output to DVI. Quickly switch the TV to DVI input and confirm that you want to use that input, otherwise the player will default back to component. I hope that is all that your problem is.

After I power down my HLN617W after viewing, the set makes creaking noises for at least an hour afterwards. I have had the set for almost a year and it has always done this. Does anybody else's Sammy make these noises? Just wondering...

Originally posted by vblyth
After I power down my HLN617W after viewing, the set makes creaking noises for at least an hour afterwards. I have had the set for almost a year and it has always done this. Does anybody else's Sammy make these noises? Just wondering...

Yes, the creaking noises are quite common with the Sammy DLP. Don't worry about them. It has to do with the heating up and cooling down of the TV. You'll probably hear them when it's been on for awhile too. Don't worry about them, just enjoy your set!

I know this issue has probably been addressed a hundred times but I don't really have time to search through the thread. Can anyone tell me if the HLN617W is hdcp compatible. I am considering purchasing the new sammy dvd hd941 and I was warned that dvi out won't be accepted by tvs that don't support hdcp. Also, will the upconversion feature take away from the picture quality of actual HD dvds?

EDIT -- oops, was getting HDCP and HDMI mixed up...

I believe the HLN's are HDCP compliant they just don't have a HDMI port which carries audio also. I don't think the Samsung 941, or any other player out now or soon, will even be able to read HD DVD's when they finally do come out.

Originally posted by mikeagregor
Can anyone tell me if the HLN617W is hdcp compatible.

Yes, through it's DVI input.

I am considering purchasing the new sammy dvd hd941 and I was warned that dvi out won't be accepted by tvs that don't support hdcp.

The HD941 will work with any HLN set but DVD material is not HDCP encoded. HDCP will probably be used to protect future premium HDTV programs.

The HD941 has a HDMI output not a DVI output. That's not a problem because all you need is a cable with a male DVI connector on one end and a male HDMI connector on the other end.

Also, will the up-conversion feature take away from the picture quality of actual HD dvds?

As others have said the HD941 is not a HD DVD player. There are none on the market now. There aren't any HD DVD disks available either.

The HD941 converts a DVD's digital data from 480i to 720p before it sends the data to the TV through it's digital HDMI output. The PQ is better because fewer bad things happen to it if it's kept in a digital domain not because it is HD.

Thanks to all! I think I have learned what I need to know. It seems as if the 941 will serve as a good interim dvd player until actual HD dvd's are released. (I assume that superbit dvd's are not HD ) One last question: Do any of you think that I should use the 941's component out option or is that a waste and I should invest in the gefen switch for my HLN617W (Damn Samsung to hell for only putting one DVI input!!!)

I would use DVI for DVD's and component for HD, if you don't get a switch.
DVI helps DVD's more than HD.
From what I have read DVI switches are very expensive and have their downfalls but I have no first hand experience. Traded in my HLN for a HLP instead!

Originally posted by 1Mark1
I would use DVI for DVD's and component for HD, if you don't get a switch.
DVI helps DVD's more than HD.
From what I have read DVI switches are very expensive and have their downfalls but I have no first hand experience. Traded in my HLN for a HLP instead!
Me too. :)

I just hooked up my directv receiver via component 3 and wow... it looks terrible! There is an overwhelming presence of purple and it is not nearly as clear on High Def stations. I am definitely going to buy a switch when I get a DVI dvd player.

By the way, can anyone point me in the direction of a thread that can introduce me to a surround sound unit ( receiver and speakers ) for under $500? I am not an audiophile but my surround system doesn't do my television justice. I will spend more if I have to but $500 would definitely fit the budget in the near future.

There are a number of setups here for $250-600:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QZNc02ke6Mr/cgi-bin/ProdGroup.asp?c=14&g=135100&s=0&cc=01&search=

Cyber, that is exactly what I am looking for! Thanks a million. :D

I have a 100w per channel Kenwood system, about like that first one on that link that was 399. I got an open box for 299. It fits my needs perfectly. Very pleased with it.

I have the Onkyo 770 HIiB system and find it outstanding, esp for $450. I highly recommend it, and you can read a great deal about it in the Home Theater in a Box forum.

I have a 100w per channel Kenwood system, about like that first one on that link that was 399. I got an open box for 299. It fits my needs perfectly. Very pleased with it.

Do you know the model? I am now considering either the Kenwood HTB-506 or the Onkyo HT-5760. The Onkyo is about $150 more but I know that Onkyo is very reliable in home audio. I would like to hear them both in person before making a decision but if you have the Kenwood, that might help my decision.

Originally posted by mikeagregor
I have a 100w per channel Kenwood system, about like that first one on that link that was 399. I got an open box for 299. It fits my needs perfectly. Very pleased with it.

Do you know the model? I am now considering either the Kenwood HTB-506 or the Onkyo HT-5760. The Onkyo is about $150 more but I know that Onkyo is very reliable in home audio. I would like to hear them both in person before making a decision but if you have the Kenwood, that might help my decision.

Sorry about that. I copied instead of quoted and then tried to edit and screwed it all up. You get the picture. LOL

I believe my model has been discontinued. I bought it at the end of last year. It was a holliday display model in perfect shape. Mine has a VR-606 reciever instead of a VR-707 with same speakers but only 5 of them and a 100w powered sub instead of a 150w.

Originally posted by mikeagregor
I just hooked up my directv receiver via component 3 and wow... it looks terrible! There is an overwhelming presence of purple and it is not nearly as clear on High Def stations. I am definitely going to buy a switch when I get a DVI dvd player.


But that's not the way it should be. I'm sure lots of other people have DirecTV hookups to their HLN sets, without this type of problem. My setup is different (HDTV and digital cable via Comcast), but I have an HD931 (last year's model), and use the DVI for it and component for the HDTV. The only difference I notice when using DVI for the Comcast box (I use the "manual switch" method of changing cables) is a more washed out image via the Motorola 5100 (need to turn the contrast and brightness down vs. the settings I have when connected to the DVD). I really don't bother switching any more, since the difference in PQ is minor, at best. To echo htwaits and 1Mark1 - the DVI helps DVD much more than HDTV. I would spend some time trying to make your component connection better, since it seems that there's something wrong to be having both color and PQ problems. You may end up needing it in the future for something else.

Originally posted by gakon
You may end up needing it in the future for something else. [/B]

I am in the dark with this one because component 3 has been calibrated using my progressive scan dvd player and looks great. Another confusing thing is that there are no tint (red/green) adjustment options with component 2, 3 or DVI so I can't imagine how to get rid of that purple. If there are any idea out there I will definitely try them. The only thing that I can think of is possibly a faulty component out on the directv hd box??

Originally posted by mikeagregor
...The only thing that I can think of is possibly a faulty component out on the directv hd box??

Or a bad cable or connection.

Has anyone had a color wheel fail on an HLN set? Mine on my HLN567 seems to be going out. It is making a noise similar to a circular saw, though a lot quieter. When I called Samsung warranty service, they seemed fairly sure this was what the noise was coming from.......not the cooling fan, but a "known issue" with the color wheel.

I am still waiting on in-home warranty service. It seems that my local repair company that Samsung would use, it totally unfamiliar with these sets and based on what I told him from Samsung he is trying to see if he can obtain the part prior to coming out.

I would be interested to hear if anyone else has had to have the color wheel replaced.

Thanks!

Originally posted by jb510
Or a bad cable or connection.

Good suggestion. Although the cables are in use with the DVD player, I will re-try the connection in a couple of hours when I get home.

Originally posted by DustynW
I would be interested to hear if anyone else has had to have the color wheel replaced.

My HLN437W was delivered in August '03 with a buzz-saw color wheel. At the time, the Tweeter tech replaced the entire light engine because it was more readily available than the color wheel. At the time of his most recent visit (to do the two-board upgrade for the lip synch problem) he recalled the light engine replacement and said SOP these days was to replace the color wheel assembly only, as they are now easier to obtain.

By the way the Tweeter tech says Samsung DLP TVs are great to work on compared to other brands and types of sets. Your tech is exhibiting fear of the unknown!

Originally posted by jb510
Or a bad cable or connection.

I just made sure that the monster component cables were connected properly and they were. Second, I copied the settings for DVI input to Component 3 input (brightness, sharpness, contrast, and color). That didn't help PQ or the color problem. I am convinced that PQ via component from DirecTv is much inferior than the DVI output. Does anyone out there have any first hand experience with DirecTv via component out to a HLN set? As for the purple color, I have no idea. It is best described (if you have Directv, you will understand) in the guide menu. On the top right, there is a display of the date and time. Via DVI, it is pure white. Via component, it is purple and the whole menu is blurry. Possibly there is a problem with the Hd box or component out on it ( Zenith HDSAT-520 ). Either way, I am past my warranty on it so I will be going via DVI switch since it is still cheaper than buying a new receiver.

I just read htwaits thread on black bars and I think I learned more than I wanted to about them! ;) GREAT thread!

Originally posted by DustynW
Has anyone had a color wheel fail on an HLN set? Mine on my HLN567 seems to be going out. It is making a noise similar to a circular saw, though a lot quieter. When I called Samsung warranty service, they seemed fairly sure this was what the noise was coming from.......not the cooling fan, but a "known issue" with the color wheel.

I am still waiting on in-home warranty service. It seems that my local repair company that Samsung would use, it totally unfamiliar with these sets and based on what I told him from Samsung he is trying to see if he can obtain the part prior to coming out.

I would be interested to hear if anyone else has had to have the color wheel replaced.

Thanks!


I'm in the process of trying to get an appointment set up with Samsung's local technician in San Jose. I've noticed the same thing. I'm pretty sure it's the bearings in the spinning light wheel making that grinding sound (loudest when I first turn it on in the morning).

Originally posted by mikeagregor
I just read htwaits thread on black bars and I think I learned more than I wanted to about them! ;) GREAT thread!
You and me both. There seem to be an order of magnitude more variables to deal with now. Maybe in a moment of insanity I'll try to revise it. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by mikeagregor
I just made sure that the monster component cables were connected properly and they were. Second, I copied the settings for DVI input to Component 3 input (brightness, sharpness, contrast, and color). That didn't help PQ or the color problem. I am convinced that PQ via component from DirecTv is much inferior than the DVI output. Does anyone out there have any first hand experience with DirecTv via component out to a HLN set? As for the purple color, I have no idea. It is best described (if you have Directv, you will understand) in the guide menu. On the top right, there is a display of the date and time. Via DVI, it is pure white. Via component, it is purple and the whole menu is blurry. Possibly there is a problem with the Hd box or component out on it ( Zenith HDSAT-520 ). Either way, I am past my warranty on it so I will be going via DVI switch since it is still cheaper than buying a new receiver.



Sometimes my Comcast Motorola cable box, with DVI-out to TV, will get screwy like this. The picture will be green/purple (red missing, I think), but only on non-HD channels. This is the equipment, not the TV. Try unplugging the box, checking your output settings (16:9, 1080i, 4:3 override set to what?) on your cable box or whatever.

Originally posted by cyberbri
Sometimes my Comcast Motorola cable box, with DVI-out to TV, will get screwy like this. The picture will be green/purple (red missing, I think), but only on non-HD channels. This is the equipment, not the TV. Try unplugging the box, checking your output settings (16:9, 1080i, 4:3 override set to what?) on your cable box or whatever.

I have tried it all... HD stations, SD stations, unplugged the receiver, tried 720p, 1080i. I give up but if anyone else has DirecTv connected through component 2 or 3 on the HLN, please let me know if your connection is as good as a DVI connection. My component out on the receiver may need replacing if I opt that route. But like I said, I will probably just get the switch.

Is it just a slight tint? Or is this full-on purple scenery, etc.?

The problem I described was green and purple faces and scenery - like the whole red color range was missing.

Yeah, it could be your DirecTV receiver. If you're going to get a switch anyway, then you don't have to worry about fussing with getting a new box.

Originally posted by cyberbri
Is it just a slight tint? Or is this full-on purple scenery, etc.?

The problem I described was green and purple faces and scenery - like the whole red color range was missing.

Yeah, it could be your DirecTV receiver. If you're going to get a switch anyway, then you don't have to worry about fussing with getting a new box.

I saw no green but all the reds looked like they had a purple tint to them and the entire picture was blurred around the edges. Even areas that should have been white were purple. It would have been nice to save the $250 on the switch but at least I know that I will have the best possible connection and I saw on the Gefen site that they now have a 2 to 1 DVI switch with a remote control for $249. This also includes 2-6foot DVI cables. Thanks for your help anyway. :)

If anyone is interested, here is the link to that page of Gefen's site

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1819

I've got an HLP-467w (manufacture date 7/04). The screen will sometimes turn green when watching Cable TV.

I'm connected to Cox HD Cable. Although I don't lose the picture, everything on the screen turns to green with some highlights in blue and red. even the black side bars on non 16:9 images are green. It does it intermittently on both HD and SD programs.

I'm running the signal from the cable box to an SR7400 Marantz receiver and from there to the component input on the TV. I'm using high quality component cable throughout. I've tried switching out all the cables. I've tried 2 different cable boxes (Explorer 8000 HD PVR and the Explorer 3250HD tuner). I've tried switching the the various inputs on the TV and the Marantz. It still occurs. Once the image turns green, I can get it back normal by switching sources on the TV or the Marantz or by unplugging the cables on the back of the TV and reconnecting them. It will sometimes corrects itself. Changing channels does not correct the color.

I've had the cable company out here 3 times and they have no ideas. I've had tech support from the store where I bought the TV and they don't know what to do. This is the second Samsung I've had. The first one started having the same problem then it completely died within 3 weeks of when I bought it. Now the replacement is doing the same thing.

No one seems to have seen this before. I've been through 2 TVs, 2 cable boxes, 5 sets of cables. but can't isolate the source of the problem.

Any Ideas?

I'd appreciate any insight. Thanks

Have you tried skipping the Marantz and going directly to the HLP (if possible with your set-up)?

What u think guys, get HLP 5685 now or wait for 5695 1080P Kirk in first quarter MSRP..Poss $500-$100 more?

Originally posted by zoro
What u think guys, get HLP 5685 now or wait for 5695 1080P Kirk in first quarter MSRP..Poss $500-$100 more?

I am personally confused about 1080p because all of our programing is set to be broadcast in 720p or 1080i. Does a 1080p television display the 1080i broadcasts better? I don't believe it can display a 720p broadcast any better. Wouldn't that be like our natine 720p sets displaying 420p broadcasts?
:confused:

but it does have advanced gear, 5th gen light engine, upward compatibility, atsc tuner, and cable card

Originally posted by zoro
What u think guys, get HLP 5685 now or wait for 5695 1080P Kirk in first quarter MSRP..Poss $500-$100 more?
Where did you find information about a HLP5695 (Pedestal) 1080p set in Q1 2005?

check twice.com or widescreenreview.com..in news! MSRP around $5400-$5900

I would expect 1080p will more likely be $2K-$5K more not $500 to $1000 (that is the way it is running in the front projector world).

Originally posted by arungupta
Let me try to clarify the DVI DVD player and 4:3 stetch issue again.

You should only use 720p mode to connect a DVI DVD player to the TV, and you should only use the Wide mode. (PC wide is only when you connect a PC using DVI). Other resolutions will only cause unnecessary scaling. In this DVI/720p mode, the TV is going to display the pixels as they are fed to it - with no stretching, no scaling.

In this DVI/720p mode, stretching is done by your DVD player not by the TV. Ideally you should have a DVD player that should give you the option to stretch or not. Well the current crop of DVI DVD players don't give you that option. Samsung HD931 always stretches 4:3 programs in DVI output, and Bravo D1 never stretches.

So if you like them stretched, buy HD931. If you don't like them stretched, buy Bravo D1. If you want it both ways, build an HTPC, or wait. I don't know how Momitsu or the LG player behave in this regard.

Arun,

I've just discovered this thread and some of the other information you've put online about the Samsung DLPs -- about all of which, many thanks!

I have a HLN617W that I use with a Samsung HD931 DVD player. I have all of the output/input modes hooked up: DVI and 480p component video directly, and composite and S-video through an A/V receiver.

Of course, DVI is visibly superior to the others. But 4:3 material is stretched horizontally, which I hate. So I was happy to read that the Bravo D1 never stretches -- something I don't think I've read before in all the Bravo D1 reviews and discussion I've heard.

Maybe I'll buy a D1, but I'd like to confirm that I understood you correctly -- the D1 always leaves 4:3 material unstretched on DVI, so I can input it to the TV as 1280x720 with the original unstretched aspect ratio and with the entire height of the screen in use? Is that correct?

Also, I believe Bravo now has a D2. Does the same apply to it?

Originally posted by epstewart
I've just discovered this thread ...

Arun was involved in a fatal bicycle accident in early June. His memorial thread is pasted to the top of the thread list for this forum. I'll try to answer your questions.

But 4:3 material is stretched horizontally, which I hate. So I was happy to read that the Bravo D1 never stretches -- something I don't think I've read before in all the Bravo D1 reviews and discussion I've heard.

The HD-931 seems to be fooling the TV into thinking it is receiving a HD signal. That's one of the two major short comings of the HD-931. The other is that it uses PC Color Space instead of Video Color Space. The result is that blacks and white are crushed (lost detail).

Maybe I'll buy a D1, but I'd like to confirm that I understood you correctly -- the D1 always leaves 4:3 material unstretched on DVI, so I can input it to the TV as 1280x720 with the original unstretched aspect ratio and with the entire height of the screen in use? Is that correct?

The D1 is now the D2 but you have the general idea. From my perspective the D1/D2 DVD players allow the TV to offer an aspect ratio appropriate for 4x3 films. For the HLN sets I believe that is the "Normal" aspect mode. For the new HLP sets "Normal" has been changed to "4x3". You can read about aspect modes and your setup by checking out the "black bars" link at the bottom of this message.

Good luck.

The DVI input on older DLP's didn't have a 4:3 aspect setting, but the new ones do. My HLN617W was upgraded to a W1 (internal gut-swap for audio sync issues) and it now supports a 4:3 aspect ratio for the DVI input. BTW, I too have an HD931.

To htwaits and johnevo,

Boy, it comes as a shock to hear that Arun Gupta is no longer with us. Though I just heard of him for the first time, I'm truly sorry he's gone.

Thanks for your input, both of you. My Samsung HLN617W DLP is "old" -- i.e., it was bought in very late December 2003. It has no Normal or 4x3 aspect setting for DVI ... except for DVI/480p, in which the picture takes up just 480 screen-height pixels of the 720 available. So it sounds like a W1 upgrade would be useful to me. Is it doable if I don't have any real issues like audio-sync? Is it basically just a firmware upgrade? If so, why a gut-swap ... because there's no other way to change the firmware?

On the other hand, I was envisioning that the Bravo D1/D2 might do something that puts black bars at the sides of a 4:3 picture so I can still use Wide mode on the TV. Am I wrong about that?

Originally posted by epstewart
On the other hand, I was envisioning that the Bravo D1/D2 might do something that puts black bars at the sides of a 4:3 picture so I can still use Wide mode on the TV. Am I wrong about that?
That's a good choice and it would work but I would check the DVD Hardware forum for other choices. I haven't been keeping up with the new DVD players. I only know that the Bravo D1 worked from Arun's reports.

I'm going to try my PC first and if I can't make that work I'll start learning about all the new up-scaling DVD players.

DVD Players (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=18)

I only had a D1 for a short time... it was one of the early ones that locked up occasionally. At the time, my HLN didn't have the 4:3 aspect setting on DVI, but I honestly don't remember if 4:3 content was stretched or not.

If you're happy with the picture quality, etc. then I wouldn't change a thing on your TV. I especially wouldn't change it because of 4:3 content via DVI - unless you watch a ton of it. BTW, the "upgrade" is no longer a total gut-swap, it's a 2-card replacement. The firmware is on the processing board, and that's one of the cards that gets replaced.

htwaits & jonhevo ... I'm pretty sure I'll be buying a Bravo D2 direct from V Inc. ... I'll expect it to be able to feed properly "pillarboxed" 4:3 DVI/720p into my Samsung HLN617W when it (the Sammy) is using the Wide aspect setting (as it presently has no Normal or 4:3 Aspect setting for DVI/720p) ... If that doesn't work for some reason, I'll consider a 2-card upgrade to W1 status for the Sammy ... Thanks for all the information, guys.

How much does an upgrade cost? Does Samsung have a site with the prices?

I ran autocolor by accident and now the color of myset is screwed up. Anyway to fix this? Samsung is coming to look at the set on Thursday, I guess that is the only way to fix it? Thanks!

Originally posted by pcdsl
I ran autocolor by accident and now the color of myset is screwed up. Anyway to fix this? Samsung is coming to look at the set on Thursday, I guess that is the only way to fix it? Thanks!
Unless you have recorded you SM defaults - no, no way to fix it.
PS: I hope you "played dumb" with Samsung. What you did is not covered by warranty.

Autocolor in which part of the menu? Which input?

The 480p input component. The values for the fields did not change. Well the TV has other problems before this. They did the audio/vid sync but now im having trouble with the scrolling lines on the screen in the component input, so they are coming to look at that.

HLN-5065WX

Color Wheel Issues

My HLN starting make a very high pitched whine a few weeks ago so I called samsung and they sent a tech out the following week. He said they have seen this in a few sets and are replacing the entire engine. The guy was very nice and said he worked directly for samsung. I now have a new color wheel and engine, when I signed the work order the listing for parts including labor came to about $2k, none of which I had to pay for of course. On his way out the tech made the comment that I basically had a brand new tv.

Not sure if it has been mentioned here before but I would say samsung has one of the best warranty programs out of any product I have ever bought. The fact that they sent a tech in three days and they replaced the whole unit, no questions asked tells me that samsung is doing it right as they look to make inroads in the high end tv markets.

I've had similar experiences since I bought my first HLM617W back in February of 2003. My "first" TV had the light engine replaced 2-3 times (color banding), then it was totally replaced with an HLN617W and IT had the light engine replaced several times (IR and AudioSync) and then finally I had the entire guts replaced a month or so ago (AudioSync). Granted this is a lot of work, but it was all covered by warranty, so I'm not complaining. Good job Samsung!

Jimmy - my HLN has had 3 light engine replacements (one was not due to color wheel noise). There are probably a few of us who have been through this. My latest engine was installed this spring, with no whine. I read that it was a bearing issue that has apparently been fixed. Or at least I hope, since my warranty runs out in a month. I have an extended warranty, but since it's not through Samsung I'm not sure I would deal with the same techs, who were very knowledgeable.

Kir - once upon a time entering the service menu was considered taboo - at least with the first line CSR's on Samsung's help line. I believe it was at CEDIA this year that one of Samsung's management made a comment acknowledging that DLP owners would get into their SM's, and I haven't heard of Samsung actually refusing warranty service due to this.

Glad to hear that the Samsung Tech's know what they are doing, they are coming next week to fix the audio/video sync problem.

The Samsung rep that I dealt with on the phone was very nice, and he gave me none of the usual run around that you sometimes get.

Just curious, after the swap is made, did the tech fire up the TV to make sure all look good, and there were no problems?

TIA

Originally posted by johnevo
I've had similar experiences since I bought my first HLM617W back in February of 2003. My "first" TV had the light engine replaced 2-3 times (color banding), then it was totally replaced with an HLN617W and IT had the light engine replaced several times (IR and AudioSync) and then finally I had the entire guts replaced a month or so ago (AudioSync). Granted this is a lot of work, but it was all covered by warranty, so I'm not complaining. Good job Samsung!

I could be wrong, but I think color banding can be fixed with proper calibration. Not that it would be bad to get a brand new, better model set...

I've done extensive tweaking and calibrating on mine, and have got it down pretty well (huge improvement on cable and DVDs), except for some stuff with the blues on certain websites when using HTPC-VGA.

AUTOCOLOR:

Originally posted by pcdsl
The 480p input component.
HLN-5065WX

If you have a bright image on the screen, the Autocolor will bring everything (offset/gain for r/g/b) down. If the image is overall very dark, it will take them up.

I did this on VGA, using some calibration screens and just my desktop with some browsers open. I now have the VGA levels at 170 gain and 24 offset, but with a bright screen, these were brought down to 120. Note that gain is for whites/brighter colors, and offset applies to the amount of color in the darks. Setting all three to the same value will make them all equal, so you can make fine-tune adjustments to compensate for color-push in the DNIe menu (too red, too green, too blue). It's easiest to test for this by looking at greyscale patterns to see if they appear too red or too blue.

If these are down too low, your overall image will lose its brightness. Raising the Brighntess in the DNIe section only increases the amount of light (noise) in blacks and dark areas. And doing Contrast in the DNIe section will only make the whites brighter and the darks darker (you should have an even greyscale gradation - can check different ways, like here http://www.displaycalibration.com/ and with calibration discs, or the "Pattern" option in the DNIe section which has gradation bars at the end for testing contrast and color push).

From this site with basic/intermediate/advanced calibration info:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6463_7-5085739_1.html?tag=fs
"One of the most important components of professional TV service--and one that definitely requires special gear--is grayscale calibration. This procedure equalizes the color of gray at various light levels, from very dark to very bright, at the NTSC standard color temperature (a.k.a. white balance) of 6,500 degrees Kelvin, or D6500K. DVDs are created to be displayed at that color temperature, so if your TV is set to 6,500K, you're that much closer to seeing the image the director intended."


I'm not sure how the color settings look for that input, so your best bet is to maybe go into a store and quickly get into the SM while no one's looking, or ask someone with untouched settings to tell you theirs.



For general calibration knowledge, there's some great stuff here:
http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/panelofexperts.html


HTH