No problems with DirecTV either.

Hey Jim

I got a problem. I think I know the solution, but I wanted to ask before I got on the roof and fixed it. I think you know my setup, but anyway, 4221 with pre amp. No breaks down to tv in den. Problem: wife gets new hdtv for bedroom and I go up and break the line to split ota signal to tv in bedroom. As soon as I connect to spliter, I lose picture in den. Can I assume that I cannot break that without getting rid of the preamp, and if I do, can expect a great deal of signal loss to den?

btw, keep in mind I am no longer interested in picking up signals from Okinawa or Germany. :)

Hey Jim

I got a problem. I think I know the solution, but I wanted to ask before I got on the roof and fixed it. I think you know my setup, but anyway, 4221 with pre amp. No breaks down to tv in den. Problem: wife gets new hdtv for bedroom and I go up and break the line to split ota signal to tv in bedroom. As soon as I connect to spliter, I lose picture in den. Can I assume that I cannot break that without getting rid of the preamp, and if I do, can expect a great deal of signal loss to den?

btw, keep in mind I am no longer interested in picking up signals from Okinawa or Germany. :)
Bryan, just got home, was in Fl for the past week, the splitter is blocking power to the amp at the antenna. You could find a voltage passing splitter or put the power supply above the splitter.
If you remove the preamp it should get better,but you will have less signal, the preamp (part at antenna ) will kill signal with no power

I was getting worried. I was thinking about calling and checking on you! ;)

Ok, I understand. Does the voltage passing splitter need to go in between the amp and the box that is at the tv that plugs in? In other words, there is a box at the antenna and then the other is near the tv and what I want is to split in the attic which would be between the two???

They make splitters that pass voltage from one port to one other but not to both, you need voltage to go from power supply at TV to amp at antenna but not to TV on the other side of the splitter. I will see if I can find one for you, give me a day or two.

Jim, I didn't get one off the internet but took a chance on Radio Shack. I really hate that store, but anyway, I found one that did what you said and it worked like a charm. HD in den and bedroom and not one mark down on the signal strength in den. I cannot pick up PBS in bedroom, but it doesnt do well in the den to begin with. Thanks again for the help...as usual!

I have problems with the PBS 9.1/9.2/9.3 get 6.1/6.2 from Aug. better

newb here,
i just bought my first hdtv (samsung lnt-4069). im trying to program my tv to pick up the hd channels and noticed there are 3 options (STD, HRC, IRC) for each analog and digital. which should i choose for each to pick up the most channels. so far ive tried all three choices and each gives me a different channel set each time. here is where my problem starts. it seems as if the HD channels are coming in at 4:3 and the 480i channels are stretched to 16:9. the picture on the "HD" channels is not HD and looks as poor as the normal cable channels. is this something i should call comcast about, or is it a simple problem im having due to my inexperience....help please.
-ben

Anybody notice WTOC was in SD yesterday for all of the basketball and is also in SD today, they've never had any problem like this before.

Anybody notice WTOC was in SD yesterday for all of the basketball and is also in SD today, they've never had any problem like this before.

It is a problem with WTOC, I just looked at WCSC 5.1 in Charleston it is in HD.
Give them a call, they may need to flip a switch

WTOC is back in HD, I had to write the engineer an email.

I have problems with the PBS 9.1/9.2/9.3 get 6.1/6.2 from Aug. better
Still out for me jim.

Still out for me jim.

Not sure where the tower is for 9.1/9.2/9.3 but I need to turn my ant about 30-40 deg to pick it up and it is way below the signal from all the other Sav. stations.

Not sure where the tower is for 9.1/9.2/9.3 but I need to turn my ant about 30-40 deg to pick it up and it is way below the signal from all the other Sav. stations.
The tower for 9.1, 9.2 and 9.3 (WVAN-TV) is in Pembroke, GA. That's several miles further west on US 280 than the other Savannah stations. All the other Savannah stations are concentrated within a few miles of each other on GA 204 just a bit west of I-95. WVAN is several more miles to the west up US 280.

The station is not yet at DTV full power. Also, some tower and other work has been going on there according to postings on the FCC site. There is also a note on the GPTV web site as of yesterday stating that a 6-hour or so outage will happen at several of the Georgia PBS stations (including WVAN) this Thursday night starting at 1:00 AM. The notice says the outage is for their "digital transition". Here is the link -- http://gpbcommunications.blogspot.com/2008/12/gpb-stations-off-air-december-18-due-to.html

With the currently authorized Construction Permit on file with the FCC, WVAN will put out a very strong DTV signal on channel 9 after the February analog shutoff. Right now the DTV feed is on channel 13 and at reduced power.

I am at work and can't check but it looks like DirecTV may have added FOX in HD this morning. Can anyone verify?

I am at work and can't check but it looks like DirecTV may have added FOX in HD this morning. Can anyone verify?
Verified. I think WTGS is now in HD on DirecTV. At least my TV now shows 720p instead of 480i for the native resolution. It's still too early in the evening for any Fox network HD stuff to be on air, so we'll have to wait until 8:00 PM to be absolutely sure.

I am 61 miles from WVAN, just south of Adrain GA, and I receive it fairly well. There are some occasional dropouts. WVAN is about 18-20 miles closer to me than Savannah's commercial stations, which I receive about 75% of the time, mostly at night. From what I can tell, the ERP for WVAN on channel 13 is 1.6 kW. My only problems arise when WMAZ's analog 13 signal interferes. I am also 60 miles from the Macon towers. When WVAN moves to channel 9 with 20 kW, it will boom into my area!

According to this article it is saying that DirecTV added PBS in HD yesterday also. I never even checked.


http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6623771.html?q=directv

According to this article it is saying that DirecTV added PBS in HD yesterday also. I never even checked.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6623771.html?q=directv

The article is incorrect. It states that FOX was added in Lincoln-Hastings, Neb, when it was a PBS affiliate added there. It also states that PBS was added in Savannah, when it was FOX added.

~Alan

The article is incorrect. It states that FOX was added in Lincoln-Hastings, Neb, when it was a PBS affiliate added there. It also states that PBS was added in Savannah, when it was FOX added.

~Alan


Thanks Alan, that makes sense

I am 61 miles from WVAN, just south of Adrain GA, and I receive it fairly well. There are some occasional dropouts. WVAN is about 18-20 miles closer to me than Savannah's commercial stations, which I receive about 75% of the time, mostly at night. From what I can tell, the ERP for WVAN on channel 13 is 1.6 kW. My only problems arise when WMAZ's analog 13 signal interferes. I am also 60 miles from the Macon towers. When WVAN moves to channel 9 with 20 kW, it will boom into my area!
RickGA:

WMUM, the PBS Channel 7 DTV over in Cochran should blow your doors off there close to Adrian. The FCC signal contour map shows a strong signal even here into Vidalia. The programming is the same as WVAN, since all the Georgia PBS stations out here in the sticks are fed the GPB Atlanta signal for broadcast.

I am well covered, as far as GPTV is concerned, that's for sure--WMUM, WVAN & WCES! And you are right, WMUM is the champ when it comes to signal strength. It looks as though WMAZ will be my CBS source. Augusta will provide me with WJBF for ABC and WAGT for NBC & CW. If WFXG in Augusta doesn't get it's maximization request granted, Fox will be the least reliable OTA network. I will miss the reliability of WSAV & WTOC's analog signals.

My antenna setup will be getting a major overhaul before February. I have some connector problems that arise after it rains. With a change from an Antennas Direct DB8 to a 91XG, new coax, and increased height, I may get just enough 'umph' to get Savannah more often than not.

WFXG's request has already been granted.

- Trip

With a change from an Antennas Direct DB8 to a 91XG, new coax, and increased height, I may get just enough 'umph' to get Savannah more often than not.

I have the 91XG and it does much, much better for me than my old Channel Master 4228 did. I paired each to a CM 7777 preamp. For my location, WTGS (Fox 28) in Savannah is pretty much 100% reliable. Just very rarely do I lose it. WTOC (right now on DTV 15) is also about the same 100% reliable. The other Savannah stations not quite so much. WSAV (DTV 39) is good, but not as reliable as 11 and 28. Prior to getting the 91XG up, none of the Savannah stations were close to 100% reliable. So I think you can probably expect better performance from the 91XG, too.

I even have mine attic-mounted in a one-and-a-half story house and get the results posted above. I have the HD locals now on DirecTV and the OTA stuff is just for "experimentation". My wife vetoed an outside-mounted antenna...:(

WJCL (channnel 22) has been approved for a maximized coverage buildout to 1 MW ERP. That should make their signal even a bit stronger than WTGS here.

Thanks for the encouraging report on the 91XG.

I used to live in Vidalia until 2000. I still work there. That is why I am interested in keeping "in touch" with the Savannah market. Macon is my DMA, but the tv stations there provided the least coverage of any market... probably due to their much lower tower heights. I assumed, since I receive WJCL sometimes, that they were at 1 mW now. So, that is not the case?

Some of the tv stations are using directional patterns that really put me at a disadvantage. WGSA is probably directional so as not to interfere with a LP station in Dublin... but I don't think that station is still on the air. I haven't been able to receive it for a long time.

I assumed, since I receive WJCL sometimes, that they were at 1 mW now. So, that is not the case?

No, I don't think WJCL is at 1 MW ERP yet. They just got their CP modification a couple of months or so back. Their latest DTV transition update on the FCC site says they will go 1 MW at the same time they switch over to 22 for the digital feed (instead of 23 that they use now). That would be midnight on the February switchover date. Here is a link to the engineering data on the 1 MW upgrade. The CP modification was granted 9/24/2008.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=674247

And they just filed recently stating that their equipment manufacturer cannot get them a channel 22 mask filter in time for the transition date, so they'll be sticking around on channel 23 a little while after the date, then transitioning back to 22 at 1000 kW.

- Trip

Does anyone know when WGSA-HD might be available on DirecTV?

I live in Vidalia, GA and might buy a directional antennae for this station if not.

Thanks

Does anyone know when WGSA-HD might be available on DirecTV?

I live in Vidalia, GA and might buy a directional antennae for this station if not.

Thanks
I have not heard any date for availability on DirecTV for WGSA-HD, but you might not be able to receive them with an OTA setup either. I can pick up all the Savannah DTV stations over-the-air pretty reliably except for WGSA. I pretty much never get them. Maybe once a month for 20 or 30 minutes if conditions are just perfect. Don't know if I'm in a super dead spot for them or what the problem is. I even get WJCL at their reduced power a lot of the time, but not WGSA.

I have not heard any date for availability on DirecTV for WGSA-HD, but you might not be able to receive them with an OTA setup either. I can pick up all the Savannah DTV stations over-the-air pretty reliably except for WGSA. I pretty much never get them. Maybe once a month for 20 or 30 minutes if conditions are just perfect. Don't know if I'm in a super dead spot for them or what the problem is. I even get WJCL at their reduced power a lot of the time, but not WGSA.

Do you have directv/dish network as well? If so, can you tell a difference between the two? I know ota is uncompressed, but it's hard to imagine a better picture than what I get with directv and a plasma.

Do you have directv/dish network as well? If so, can you tell a difference between the two? I know ota is uncompressed, but it's hard to imagine a better picture than what I get with directv and a plasma.
I have DirecTV and subscribe to their Hi-Def package. The picture quality on their MPEG4 channels is excellent. I have a 58" Panasonic plasma and sit about 12 feet away from it. I believe we are lucky with the Savannah HD locals on DirecTV because their quality is also excellent. In fact, at the very least they are equal to OTA quality. Since I have both satellite and OTA, I can switch back and forth on the same TV and compare. I can see no difference.

I have not heard any date for availability on DirecTV for WGSA-HD, but you might not be able to receive them with an OTA setup either. I can pick up all the Savannah DTV stations over-the-air pretty reliably except for WGSA. I pretty much never get them. Maybe once a month for 20 or 30 minutes if conditions are just perfect. Don't know if I'm in a super dead spot for them or what the problem is. I even get WJCL at their reduced power a lot of the time, but not WGSA.

Even if you could get WGSA OTA it's almost unbearable to watch. The station has about 3 sub channels alongside the main station. Bit starvation is an understatement.

I learned far more than I ever expected DTV to encompass.
I now have a reasonable footing on the subject and hope all can bare with me and the areas I'm weak on.
Background: I live on Wilmington Island east of Savannah and am apparently in a small dead spot. Years ago, contractors would have to move a 100 feet either direction from my residence in order to get phone or radio service even though I have a two story house. It has only been about a year since my wife found reliable cell service. I used a big TV antenna with rotator about 28 feet in the air for years and could pull Jacksonville and Charleston signals sometimes very clear. I was probably one of Comcasts first 100 HSI customers and they threw in basic TV for less than HSI alone, so I've been using that for years.
Now: My son-in-law gave me a Panasonic Plasma monitor. Alas it is just that, no tuner. It has inputs composite, S-video, component, & PC VGA. I have ordered an HDMI plugin box for it hoping that it works. And shopping for something with a tuner has been a nightmare. To get current cable channels, I need something with an NTSC (analog) tuner and of course the new digital.

Where I am at concerning buying: Tuners that get both are around $150, so I figured a few more dollars will get me something that also records, DVD, VHS, or HDD. That is when I learned that such units, unless you buy into Tivo, a cable company or dish company recorder, they are extremely limited with capabilities. None of those types appear to have a signal meter, electronic program guide, or even a previous channel button on the remote. And only the Sony have a HDTV tuner, the rest are SDTV.

Recording: As mentioned above, recording boxes have limitations. Maybe you were able to find some earlier box that better met goals, but this is what I find.
D-VHS is one of the best choices and mediums that can record in HD, but theses boxes were very limited in production and very expensive if you can find one.
VHS is only near 480i and definitely not HD. There are still a very limited number of S-VHS around and I'm not sure what resolution they compare to, but certainly better than VHS. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones to still have a functioning Beta recorder.
DVD is better, but still not true HD as they will not do wide screen unless you get one that can record to DVD-RAM. And Sony took the attitude of not invented here so none of its DVD recorders will record to DVD-RAM. I also find myself wishing Sony lost out with Blu-Ray since their end goal is that you can record or copy nothing that involves a copy-right, even OTA signals. To me it seems they want everything pay-per-view. Their HDMI HCP is a step in that direction.
HDD seems to be one of the most versatile since you can time-shift and record to other medium at your convenience.
But I'm still much in the dark when it comes to what is available with HDD that don't require monthly fees.
Perhaps someone can help me fill in the blanks on using HDD's?

I give Comcast a call:
With this amount of confusion I decided to pursue what was available with Comcast after I purchased a Philips DVD recorder/tuner. It does not do DVD-RAM so it can not record wide-screen. No signal meter, no program guide, no previous channel, and I hate the remote. It is poorly arranged, too small and irregularly shaped to be comfortable in hand as well. And then I learned it only does SDTV with up-conversion. I tried it on rabbit ears and got a few channels. I tried it on cable and got a couple of more on the digital side, but find some of them are redundant stations, that is I get WSAV on 3 and two other frequencies/channels. But calling info only shows the one on 3 is HD, but usually 4:3, not wide-screen. Also PBS is on multiple frequencies and the one that is wide screen only has audio from left speaker. So, I'm pretty confused as to what should really exist.
Somewhere, in one of the forums, there are comments that by law cable companies can not encrypt local channels, that is they have to pass the signal through as recieved.I would like to know more about that since it is obvious Comcast is doing something to the signal. I called Comcast and they told me I could not get the digital without renting a box, $5/month, but the box does not have component or HDMI outputs so you won't be getting HD out of it. I can rent a recording box that has those for $16/month, but not without taking a digital package that was $58/month. I did not question how many HD channels or programs that gets me but will access PPV. I strongly believe that Comcast is messing with the local DTV channels to push us toward an upgrade package when we should be getting the local stations and their network feeds without having to pay extra. Anyone know the reality?

I really need an effective table of what is available at what cost comparing cable and satelite systems, but strongly suspect satelite is cheaper than cable. In the meantime I may opt to use cable as is and get another tuner for OTA. However I will have to watch that I do not use up all of my HD inputs on monitor which currently are only the PC-VGA and component. Composite and S-video can be considered viable for SD, but many DVD players will not upconvert to those outputs. I will not know about HDMI availability until the box arrives and I try it. Alas my old surround stereo only has composite switching.
I checked one of the sites which shows a limited number of stations available to me OTA. Can anyone give me a better list of what stations I might possibly recieve OTA?

Not sure where you got info on Sat DRVs but but it must be 10yrs old, I have a Dish DVR it can record 2 HD channels from Sat and 1 from antenna all at the same time.
It has An EPG for 9+ days. You can record 3 channels and watch one already recorded at the same time. The recorded programs are listed by name,date with all the info about the program. The build in HD holds 55+ hrs on HD and 300 hrs of sd program, can hook up a external HD and double that. The DVR can be set up to record new programs only, it will skip old repeats.
From antenna you should get all the Sav stations NBC,ABC,CBS FOX and CW, PBS is not up on power so that may be a problem for now

My info on SAT DRVs was very non-existant other than to mention such devices along with cable versions and TiVo were devices that you had to pay monthly fees. Exception being that there seems to be a lifetime fee for Tivo that is around $450 plus the cost of the box.
It was the cable version of recorder that seems to have a variation of outputs, depending upon what your cable company is issuing and they may have more than one model. Example a post I found concerning a particular cable company, one guy had HDMI on his box while the other only had composite on his and after contacting his company he was able to get one with better outputs. And I mentioned that with Comc___ you had to rent a DVR to get outputs better than base and that I was told by rep was only available to those who had or added a $58/month package. I did tell her that was enough to have me considering some sort of dish.
Most of my blog concerned what was available to the individual without having to pay monthly fees. I mentioned that it appeared that unless your DVD recorder did DVD-RAM it would not record in wide-screen. Several models that could record to DVD-RAM stated wide-screen was only available using the DVD-RAM disk. The current I'm trying is a Philips and does not do DVD-RAM and there was even mention in the manual concerning that it did not record in wide-screen. My first test using DVD+RW confirmed that. Or so it seemed as the show was in wide-screen when I hit the record button. I can not say that it did not change at that moment.
Since that time my HDMI plugin module for the Panasonic Plasma Monitor arrived and installed along with HDMI cable. There was a show in wide-screen that I thought my wife might like to see so I hit the record button. To my surprise it was wide-screen on playback. I would have to do more investigation to find the reason. The HDMI module only has an aspect of full unlike the other inputs, the composite, S-Video, component, and PC all have full, justified, zoom, and 4:3. That is maybe the HDMI module automatically converts the signal to full screen. Maybe the book for the Philips is wrong, or maybe it makes a difference which output is selected. I have not pursued that because I've made up my mind the Philips has to go back. I hate the remote, it has no EPG or previous channel button, it is SDTV only in the tuner, no signal meter, and digital channels can not be added manually.
I have already ordered a Hisense which only does digital which will leave me finding something that can do the cable NTSC analog, but this box originally manufactured for a cable company that has gone bankrupt is software reprogamable to do OTA digital. Besides being a HDTV tuner, it has all outputs available unlike most OTA tuners and has all the features missing from the Philips DVD recorder, except the recorder.
I tested the Philips on OTA last night and pulled in 3.1,3.2,11.1,11.2,11.3,22.1,28.1,35.1,35.2,&35.3
It showed that 3.1 and 35.1 were HD. All of the 35 were the same program but only 35.1 reported HD. That one was slightly better in fine details even though the tuner only does SD. The difference might likely have been on the broadcast end since the other two also showed a creeping horizontal bar that typically shows up when the power supply allows too much AC ripple on the DC, quite often the result of a bad filter capacitor. With analog it could also come from strong interference in your area, but with digital it had to be encoded in the signal at some stage prior to encoding.
You see that bar moving up the screen because the vertical sweep is not actually 60Hz but something like 59.97 for NTSC signals where as AC current is 60Hz. If poor filtering exists you see that interferrence bar scrolling at the difference frequency.

Still much to learn about what is available in this digital arena. It will be interesting to see if Blu-Ray STB recorders are released the end of JAN. If so it is likely they will only use digital inputs and outputs, ie, DVI or HDMI. Sony owns a tremendous amount of copy-righted material which they would like to be PPV. Sony owns the Blu-Ray. And Sony has been leading the charge in anti-copy, anti-piracy technology.

I would not count on Sony ever making a Blu-Ray recorder, they are poor at recording many programs with DVDrecorders. My son had a Sony DVD recorder and it would not record many programs, that his Panasonic DVD recorder had no problem with. Sony is very copy-right picky on even network program.

I decided to make a separate post on this issue hoping it is informative for those considering purchases related.
BluRay is very proprietary.
It is my opinion that consumers lost when the industry accepted it over HD.
HD is compatible with the prior technology and much cheaper to the consumer. Also it did not expand on previous anti-copy protections.
HDCP applies to HDMI and DVI interfaces and also seems to be pushed by Sony. Sony flat tells you if you hook one of their components, via HDMI or DVI, with anything else, unless it is HDCP it will not function. Other manufacturers have a warning statement concerning such hook-ups, that it might not work. You can bet that if it is hooked to something Sony unless both are HDCP compliant it will not work.

With the current state of the economy it is certain that BluRay will not roll out as fast as Sony and the industry hoped. If you have not already invested in BluRay I would suggest waiting as long as possible unless you have deep pockets. I will go so far as telling Blockbuster, etc. that I have no intention of investing in BluRay, hoping someone will reinvent the wheel or revive HD.

Currently if you get caught in the HDCP trap, you can use the component outputs and inputs of your boxes. There seems to be little visual difference in the signals that I have observed and I'm usually a nut about quality.

The only other way I have discovered to circumvent HDCP so far is via the PC input of my 42" monitor. Via the output of my video card which has S-video and 1080i VGA capabilities, I stream or play from the PC. It is my understanding that current transmissions whether they be OTA, satelite, or cable the best signal is 1080i and anything higher is upconverted after decoding. That is confusing many consumers because as I did read the Philips had output up to 1080i it obscured the info that the tuner only did SD which is the equivalent of 480.

I would not count on Sony ever making a Blu-Ray recorder, they are poor at recording many programs with DVDrecorders. My son had a Sony DVD recorder and it would not record many programs, that his Panasonic DVD recorder had no problem with. Sony is very copy-right picky on even network program.
Very much my feelings concerning Sony. You might try using component cabling if available since it does not carry HDCP signaling and is near as good as DVI or HDMI capabilities. That is assuming the box treats such a signal adequately. Component is analog but I would not put it past Sony to intentionally cripple component signals in their boxes since they are pushing the HDCP standard.

I may be having trouble with threading since I had some messages shown that now are not. Not sure how to locate the one concerning WGSA and a reply about bit starvation with the OTA signal.
Last night I recieved WGSA perfectly on Wilmington Island on rabbit ears for testing. I'm not sure what was meant for bit starvation other than signal dropout. Your tuner tries to reassemble the signal much in the same way as your CD player tries to reassemble the encoded audio. Too much missing info and you get skips, replays, or drop-out. 35.1(HD), 35.2, & 35.3 were all very good signals.

From what I've read about OTA digital, every frequency has the capability of handling 4 channels because of the way the encoding works, but only in SD. HD will occupy two of those encodings, so for OTA you might get 99.1 and 99.2 if both are HD. 99.1, .2, .3, &.4 if it is SD only. Or a combo of one HD and two SD. For a station to transmit more signals than that would require another frequency, say 100.
Cable such as Comc___ uses a different signal for digital quite often, maybe QAM or some proprietary signal which may or may not be scrambled.

Very much my feelings concerning Sony. You might try using component cabling if available since it does not carry HDCP signaling and is near as good as DVI or HDMI capabilities. That is assuming the box treats such a signal adequately. Component is analog but I would not put it past Sony to intentionally cripple component signals in their boxes since they are pushing the HDCP standard.

I have yet to see a DVD recorder that has component inputs,outputs yes.
Most have S and some with DV (Fire wire)

You have found the trend. Prior to Christmas there were many slightly older products available and some of what is still available was much cheaper than current pricing. I had my eye on several items and when I finally narrowed my search the ones most desirable to me had disappeared, sold out and no longer available. At least one of those had component in, sigh. But it did not have HDMI out, DVI I think, which can be easily hooked to HDMI with an adapter plug. Some European products had the component in but also used other formats such as PAL or SECAM and had SCART outputs of which I know very little. I have the option of adding a SCART module to my monitor, but it is expensive.
It might also be possible to find an external convertor box that changes or accepts composite to DVI or HDMI under Sony licensing which adds to the price.
I don't really know the signal quality of DV. Firewire is not exactly the same as DV if you are talking the Sony version, I-link. The signal should be exactly the same, but Firewire uses 6 wires, 2 more than the I-link. They are power wires for the connected device. All I-link are self-powered. You can use a Firewire device to input I-link via a cheap adapter if you can find a way to power it. I'd bet adapters with power supplies are available. If you have the option of a Firewire or I-link input choose the Firewire. A very cheap adapter that does not use the 2 power wires in Firewire easily allows hooking the I-link in.

If you need to get the standard channels from cable, why not use a VCR for a tuner, or a low cost DVD recorder.
As for stations with digital signals, you will never find one with 2 HD signals, but many PBS stations have as many as 5 SD signals, several in Fl do this but picture is poor.

You have found the trend. Prior to Christmas there were many slightly older products available and some of what is still available was much cheaper than current pricing. I had my eye on several items and when I finally narrowed my search the ones most desirable to me had disappeared, sold out and no longer available. At least one of those had component in, sigh. But it did not have HDMI out, DVI I think, which can be easily hooked to HDMI with an adapter plug. Some European products had the component in but also used other formats such as PAL or SECAM and had SCART outputs of which I know very little. I have the option of adding a SCART module to my monitor, but it is expensive.
It might also be possible to find an external convertor box that changes or accepts composite to DVI or HDMI under Sony licensing which adds to the price.
I don't really know the signal quality of DV. Firewire is not exactly the same as DV if you are talking the Sony version, I-link. The signal should be exactly the same, but Firewire uses 6 wires, 2 more than the I-link. They are power wires for the connected device. All I-link are self-powered. You can use a Firewire device to input I-link via a cheap adapter if you can find a way to power it. I'd bet adapters with power supplies are available. If you have the option of a Firewire or I-link input choose the Firewire. A very cheap adapter that does not use the 2 power wires in Firewire easily allows hooking the I-link in.

I know nothing about I-link but most Digital DV camcorders have a DV(fire wire) out, they hook into a 1394 card in a PC, I have a panasonic DVD recorder that has a DV input, it is better than S input and has picture and sound. It does not carry power and does not need to carry power.
The only thing I know about Sony products is to stay away from them.
My question is why you want to find a dvd recorder with component in, the recorder will not record anything better than 480 and that can be done with an S input.

Anyone else having any trouble with comcast channels? About half of mine have gone dead...

Is it just me or is anyone else having problems with WJCL OTA? For about the last month here in Beaufort my signal level has dropped from the previous high 90's down to low 70's - high 60's. Then at random intervals (20 seconds to a couple of minutes) the signal will drop to either 0 or down so low that I lose picture for a few seconds. Sometimes it goes off for several minutes at a time. I've had to go back to watching the analog feed that comes over Dish but I've even seen that go blank a few times which makes me think they're having problems that are affecting both their transmissions.

All the other OTA channels are good right now, with levels in the 80-100 range. Except WTOC which I understand doesn't broadcast at full power. Anyone know if that will change in February? I'm currently getting it in the upper 70's to low 80's. One odd thing I've noticed is this is the second winter I've had the antenna up and both times WTOC has decent signal all through the cooler months. It starts getting better even before the leaves start falling. Throughout the summer months though, the signal rarely exceeds 70% and has such frequent dropouts that I don't even try to record anything from it. Air density? Humidity? Whatever causes it, hopefully going to full power in the near future will fix it.

Is it just me or is anyone else having problems with WJCL OTA? For about the last month here in Beaufort my signal level has dropped from the previous high 90's down to low 70's - high 60's. Then at random intervals (20 seconds to a couple of minutes) the signal will drop to either 0 or down so low that I lose picture for a few seconds. Sometimes it goes off for several minutes at a time. I've had to go back to watching the analog feed that comes over Dish but I've even seen that go blank a few times which makes me think they're having problems that are affecting both their transmissions.

All the other OTA channels are good right now, with levels in the 80-100 range. Except WTOC which I understand doesn't broadcast at full power. Anyone know if that will change in February? I'm currently getting it in the upper 70's to low 80's. One odd thing I've noticed is this is the second winter I've had the antenna up and both times WTOC has decent signal all through the cooler months. It starts getting better even before the leaves start falling. Throughout the summer months though, the signal rarely exceeds 70% and has such frequent dropouts that I don't even try to record anything from it. Air density? Humidity? Whatever causes it, hopefully going to full power in the near future will fix it.
I have not had any problem with any Sav. stations, WTOC will change back to 11 next month. Not sure what the power will be What antenna do you have ?

WTOC will have a post-transiton ERP of 24.4 kW (up from the original 5.1 kW). Depending on the propagation characteristics, that should replicate their current uhf digital coverage. I am roughly the same distance from Augusta as Savannah (about 75 miles). I can sometimes receive WTOC-DT in the early mornings or at night.

My hopes are that, with the switch to VHF, they may be more dependable, even at this distance. Recently, WRDW-DT in Augusta shut-off their channel 12 analog signal and switched their digital transmitter from UHF 31 to VHF 12. This brief test was done at about 2:20 AM, so, I am not sure what their daytime signal will be like. Anyway, they tested their channel 12 digital signal at ~17 kW and it produced a solid signal at 75 miles. Post-transition ERP for WRDW-DT will actually be 20.2 kW.

VHF requires less power than UHF. I am anxious to see how WTOC will perform when it moves its digital to channel 11. It looks promising.

I have a Channel Master 4228. If stations switch back to VHF is this thing going to be near useless since it's a UHF antenna?

I don't know what's up with WJCL. Even when it was a strong 90+% and was watchable/recordable on my TV/DVR but would have dropouts when I tried to view on my PC. It may clear up again as if nothing ever happend. A while back the PBS channel was completely un-tuneable on channel 16.x on DVR or PC. I could only get it on 44.x My TV could tune it on 16.x though. Then it just started working again. I have odd unexplainable problem like this.

Anyone heard whether Dish is going to start carrying HD locals out of SAV?

I have to ask why anything better than 480 is not recordable at higher definition?
I have suspicions about such but would rather here from someone who knows the details.
I have also found a recorder with component inputs and also there are recorders that have the SCART connectors. Since the original standard for those connectors has been altered by manufacturers to a non-industry wide standard, the individual unit has to be checked for what is actually being passed through the connector. These connectors are often used in pairs, one input and one output. Many of the units I've looked at pass component video. But if looking at such devices that have the SCART pay attention to the voltage and connector which might be a 220V plug.

Currently the only station that is pushing HD is WSAV. The rest are SDTV. Does anyone know if any of the others will move up to EDTV or HDTV in February?

Is anyone actually using a tuner that decodes HD? I can only wonder how much better HD is at this point. I have a tuner on order that will do it and getting impatient.

I have a Channel Master 4228. If stations switch back to VHF is this thing going to be near useless since it's a UHF antenna?

I don't know what's up with WJCL. Even when it was a strong 90+% and was watchable/recordable on my TV/DVR but would have dropouts when I tried to view on my PC. It may clear up again as if nothing ever happend. A while back the PBS channel was completely un-tuneable on channel 16.x on DVR or PC. I could only get it on 44.x My TV could tune it on 16.x though. Then it just started working again. I have odd unexplainable problem like this.

Anyone heard whether Dish is going to start carrying HD locals out of SAV?
The 4228 will wotk at upper Vhf so you should be ok, how high is your 4228. I was on WJCL from 9-11 and had no problems.

I have to ask why anything better than 480 is not recordable at higher definition?
I have suspicions about such but would rather here from someone who knows the details.
I have also found a recorder with component inputs and also there are recorders that have the SCART connectors. Since the original standard for those connectors has been altered by manufacturers to a non-industry wide standard, the individual unit has to be checked for what is actually being passed through the connector. These connectors are often used in pairs, one input and one output. Many of the units I've looked at pass component video. But if looking at such devices that have the SCART pay attention to the voltage and connector which might be a 220V plug.
DVRs will record above 480, but DVD would not hold that much data, one hr network program is over 4.8 G, then they worry about the copy right thing.
If you want to record only off Air HD look at the Dish DTVpal-DVR on this forum.
All the networks have HD, ABC was HD from 8-11 last night

Currently the only station that is pushing HD is WSAV. The rest are SDTV. Does anyone know if any of the others will move up to EDTV or HDTV in February?

Is anyone actually using a tuner that decodes HD? I can only wonder how much better HD is at this point. I have a tuner on order that will do it and getting impatient.
I have 5 HD tuners, got a Sami 151 back in 2003, still have it. 3 Dish HD DVRs and my TV has one

Any of you guys in the Statesboro area getting WJCL? I live in Irongate, Cypress Lake Road side, and can get all of the other Savannah HD stations consistently via my ATTIC mounted antenna, even Fox now comes in good (watched entire game last night without a dropout), but I get nothing from WJCL. Also, anyone know if Dish is going to add Savannah HD local content and when?
Thanks,
Brian

Any of you guys in the Statesboro area getting WJCL? I live in Irongate, Cypress Lake Road side, and can get all of the other Savannah HD stations consistently via my ATTIC mounted antenna, even Fox now comes in good (watched entire game last night without a dropout), but I get nothing from WJCL.
Thanks,
Brian
I watched WJCL for a few minutes last night OTA here in Vidalia with an attic-mounted 91XG antenna and CM-7777 preamp. The signal level hovered around 30%. As a comparison, Fox 28 was at 67% as was WSAV and WTOC. WVAN-DT was 51%. All were solid locks. My TV can lock on anything above 20% (using the TV's signal meter). You can't draw any comparison on these signal readings from tuner to tuner unless they are identical boxes, so my percentage numbers may not relate to your equipment. Nonetheless, I did receive a signal last night. I did not watch the whole time, though. I spent most of the time on the BCS game on Fox 28.

WJCL-DT is operating at a reduced power. According to documents on file with the FCC they will move to a 1 million watt ERP signal post-Februrary when they go back to 22 from 23 and their coverage area will be slightly larger than even Fox 28. Another thing to remember is that after the analog shutoff in late February (hopefully it stays on schedule), the current adjacent channel issues with Fox 28 and WJCL 22 will go away. That will help with reception. Right now analog 22 and digital 23 for WJCL are side-by-side. Same for analog 28 and digital 27 for WTGS. The strong analog signals immediately adjacent to the weaker digital ones can make fringe reception more difficult.

Any of you guys in the Statesboro area getting WJCL? I live in Irongate, Cypress Lake Road side, and can get all of the other Savannah HD stations consistently via my ATTIC mounted antenna, even Fox now comes in good (watched entire game last night without a dropout), but I get nothing from WJCL. Also, anyone know if Dish is going to add Savannah HD local content and when?
Thanks,
BrianBrian, I dont have any problems with WJCL. But, I havent been able to pick up WVAN for a month. I've turned rotor re-scanned, nothing.

Bryan I can get Wvan but signal is low and antenna is about 30 deg w of Sav I think the rest of the problem is GET Your antenna outside, not in the attic.

My antenna is outside and about 40 feet in the air. I guess its just not enough power yet. I was getting it fine for a while, then all of a sudden it was gone.

My antenna is outside and about 40 feet in the air. I guess its just not enough power yet. I was getting it fine for a while, then all of a sudden it was gone.

I know yours is out side, was talking about the attic guys. I think wvan must be at low power. The way I found it was going into add ch. (this is on 622/722) put 13 in the box and turn the ant. slow and watch for the signal bar to move, then find tune ant. I get all of the Sav stations about 235 deg. WVAN about 275 deg.

I know yours is out side, was talking about the attic guys. I think wvan must be at low power. The way I found it was going into add ch. (this is on 622/722) put 13 in the box and turn the ant. slow and watch for the signal bar to move, then find tune ant. I get all of the Sav stations about 235 deg. WVAN about 275 deg. I thought you did, and I didnt mean to sound like I was being an a$$.:D I can live without it until....

My antenna is outside and about 40 feet in the air. I guess its just not enough power yet. I was getting it fine for a while, then all of a sudden it was gone.

bryan92:

You must have a source of local interference or something. I get Channel 9 quite reliably here in Vidalia with an attic-mounted VHF antenna. Right now WVAN-DT is on VHF channel 13. They move to 9 when the analog shutoff happens next month (hopefully). Statesboro is much closer to Pembroke than Vidalia, so signal strength should not be an issue for you unless there is something directly in your line-of-sight blocking the signal.

I have a question and I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but are you using a VHF antenna and either no preamp or a preamp that amplifies VHF signals for WVAN? All the other Savannah stations are UHF for their digital signals except WVAN. They are VHF for both analog and digital.

Thanks for the input guys. I am sure that if I moved the antenna outside it would make a difference. However, I am getting WTOC, WSAV, WVAN, and WGSA, and WTGS all consistently without any drops. Based on the coordinates from antennaweb.org, the WJCL tower location is on the same heading as the WTGS station, so is it just a factor related to the "low power" from WJCL? Assuming they increase their power to at least equal that of WTGS, then if I can get WTGS, shouldn't I also get WJCL without having to move my antenna? BTW, I do not have an amp/pre amp, just the antenna (cm3016) connected to my Dish 622 receiver directly via the cable.
Thanks,
Brian

bdmd:

You should be able to easily receive WJCL after they transition to full-power after the analog signal shutoff. The predicted coverage contours available on the FCC web site for the full-powered WJCL-DT signal show greater coverage than WTGS.

I hope so--we'll have to see. What will happen to the locals via Dishnetwork after the switch? If all the locals turn off the analog signals and go to digital, does that mean that dish will then carry the local hd signals instead, in which case I would not even need the antenna?

DVRs will record above 480, but DVD would not hold that much data, one hr network program is over 4.8 G, then they worry about the copy right thing.
If you want to record only off Air HD look at the Dish DTVpal-DVR on this forum.
All the networks have HD, ABC was HD from 8-11 last night

The Philips DVD I have will record between 1 and 6 hours depending upon mode choice. I did a test in 2.5 hour mode without noticeable degradation. I'm not sure how they accomplish the compression. I've seen much about MPEG 2 and 4 and some other methods. This box does not have MPEG 4.

But then the tuner in it is crap. It only decodes to SD and the rest of it is up-converting. None of the niceties like signal strength, EPG, or adding a channel.

I got my Hisense tuner in two days ago. On rabbit ears, I've so far learned that most stations have a HD channel, so the Philips was not telling all. But, WTOC still reports as DTV, not HDTV, and wonder if they have a HD transmitter. I know the network was pushing HD to them by the line that shows up on screen saying the program is in HD.
Having trouble getting the ears just right for WTOC. They are near a right angle to the tower. Even though the signal meter indicated stronger when pointed at the tower it was near impossible to get a stream on screen. I can only guess that there is either interferrence or ghosting of the signal causing a phase problem. Might be similar to others reporting a strong signal for a channel but no picture. Also I have not been able to get 9, GA PBS, OTA at all.

The 4228 will wotk at upper Vhf so you should be ok, how high is your 4228. I was on WJCL from 9-11 and had no problems.

It appears that I have to disagree unless he has the model 4228HD which was a recent re-release of the 4228 and was for UHF only.

The spec for the 4228 claimed about 10.5db gain which certainly is not the highest for UHF. I was just glancing at one claiming 15.5 db gain. That would translate to the signal strength of the later, both pointed at the same transmitter, would be at least 3X stronger.
But that alone may not be the best or only decision maker. I noted the front to back ratio of the 4228 did not seem very good to me but I'd have to check other antennae in that band to know for sure. Also it had some rather strong side lobes and those two issues could lead to interferrence causing a low S/N ratio (signal to noise). Also its beam width was comparitively large to the one I was looking at.
Generally, the tighter the beam, the better the front to back ratio, and the smaller the side lobes, the higher the gain.
But alone that may not be the best antenna for your application. First consider the farthest signal you wish to obtain, the higher gain is better here.
But your stations may not all be in the same exact direction. Thus a slightly wider beam may serve you as long as the farthest one does not get out of range. And if stations are separated by a larger amount of degrees you might be able to make use of one or more of the side lobes for the stronger signals and pointing the antenna at the weakest signal. This might suit you if you don't have a rotator. One of the newer ones that is programable to the stations so it automatically rotates with the channel change would be nice. And it might be important that you have one of the newer that does exact positioning versus the older one I have that is click stop. The antenna, the Quantam, was the best all channel available many years ago when I bought it and it has the amplifier card installed. The beam was so narrow that on a couple of distant stations I would sweep right through the strong point. I calculated that the stops were about 12 degrees apart so to get the problem station I had to loosen antenna and shift it 6 degrees. I have not used it for about 8 years but plan on firing it up again, just to see how it does. If I remember correctly the amp gain is 12 or more db. But that will be several days away since I will replace the old RG-58 with RG-6 quad shield. I have been running cable to other rooms and have not yet got the ends or crimper. I may now have to consider two runs to each room, one for cable or whatever and another for the antenna. I will likely need an amplifier for the cable signal being split that many times and with the antenna it throws another decision at me, as to whether run two to each room or to hunt a good diplexer with good backward signal rejection so I don't send my antenna back up the cable line.

To say the 4228 is junk, no way. If it is doing an adequate job for UHF, not to way that it might suit your upper VHF need, add a upper VHF band antenna to the mast and get the coupler needed to send both signals down the same coax.
I know of no specific changes to antennae to make them work better on a digital frequency versus analog. Channel Master had a very wide array of antennae several years back before cable killed off much of their customer base. They had antennae for each VHF channel of different ranges. I no longer if UHF was for specific channel or a small group of adjacent channels. Example, you might have four stations available, all in different directions, and quite fringe. A frequency specific antenna has better gain, so buy four antennae, one for each station. Mount them and point them to the appropriate station and couple them together. No rotator needed and the highest possible gain.

The 4228 will wotk at upper Vhf so you should be ok, how high is your 4228. I was on WJCL from 9-11 and had no problems.

DVRs will record above 480, but DVD would not hold that much data, one hr network program is over 4.8 G, then they worry about the copy right thing.
If you want to record only off Air HD look at the Dish DTVpal-DVR on this forum.
All the networks have HD, ABC was HD from 8-11 last night

Thanks for the tip on that box. It also falls short of what I'd like though. Only tunes OTA ATSC, so not good for my basic cable. Also no inputs to record with unless I can find something that converts video to RF ATSC and then cycle back through the box to record it.
I shall have to look more into recording to PC HDD as well.

I hope so--we'll have to see. What will happen to the locals via Dishnetwork after the switch? If all the locals turn off the analog signals and go to digital, does that mean that dish will then carry the local hd signals instead, in which case I would not even need the antenna?

A station can broadcast a digital signal and it not be HD. Fox 28 did that for a long time. The satellite providers can capture and down-convert (downrez) the HD signal to SD and send that over their system if they choose. Whether or not they uplink true HD is dependent upon the bandwidth they have on the satellites and whether or not they have negotiated digital HD carriage contracts with the stations.

DirecTV has apparently done so for WSAV, WTOC, WJCL and WTGS. They do not carry WGSA in HD nor do they carry GPTV in HD at this time.

A station can broadcast a digital signal and it not be HD. Fox 28 did that for a long time. The satellite providers can capture and down-convert (downrez) the HD signal to SD and send that over their system if they choose. Whether or not they uplink true HD is dependent upon the bandwidth they have on the satellites and whether or not they have negotiated digital HD carriage contracts with the stations.

DirecTV has apparently done so for WSAV, WTOC, WJCL and WTGS. They do not carry WGSA in HD nor do they carry GPTV in HD at this time.

Something that might be looked into: It is my understanding that by law cable can not encrypt/encode local stations. What the exact wording is, I'm uncertain of. But it would seem to me that if the station passes the HD signal to the cable company they would have to pass it unchanged. There may be some wiggle room in the wording and it might be time to start a movement against them forcing you to pay extra to get the local HD. It might even be against the law. If they get away with it for a lengthy time, precedent may become law.

Wtoc does have HD, all the prime time shows are in HD. I got my first HD tuner in 2003 and they had HD back then and still do.

Anyone know which local stations will go digital only on 2-17? It's my understanding the individual stations may still go digital on the original analog shut off date if they chose to do so. None of the local TV website reference what they intend to do. My gut tells me 11 will be first out of the gate & will prolong the analog cutoff til June, as they're the "elderly station of choice" and many of us know that age group isn't ready to switch. Once that happens, expect the other locals to fall in line.

On that note, here's some interesting maps. Looks like 22, 28 & 34 (and 15 in SC) gain coverage area, while 11 & 3 lose.

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report1/Savannah_GA.pdf

In Savannah, so far only WJWJ has filed. All applications to stick with 02/17/09 are due one minute before midnight tonight, and then they'll show up on the FCC site after midnight.

- Trip

According to the scroll I just saw on WTGS 28, they intend to shut off analog on 2-17. I will presume sister station WJCL 22 will do the same.

On that note, here's some interesting maps. Looks like 22, 28 & 34 (and 15 in SC) gain coverage area, while 11 & 3 lose.

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report1/Savannah_GA.pdf

I think that map is using some data that is a bit dated. Both WVAN and WTOC (channels 9 and 11) have been granted maximization requests to boost their digital TV ERP to twenty-some odd KW each. This increases both of their coverage areas from what is shown on the map. The map in the link above is still showing WTOC with 7.5 KW or so ERP.

According to the scroll I just saw on WTGS 28, they intend to shut off analog on 2-17. I will presume sister station WJCL 22 will do the same.

It seems as if a number of Savannah stations will be switching on the 17th.

Savannah: WGSA (CW), WJCL (ABC), WVAN-TV (PBS), WJWJ-TV (PBS), WTGS (Fox)

Sorry that this isn't a clickable link, but I don't have enough posts to allow it...
From: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g98DlPVl67lFGqnyLc5M-9G6-xNgD9692JL00

WSAV analog ch was off at noon today, I hope they all drop analog on the 17th

WSAV & WTOC will not go digital only until June.

See page 40: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf

WSAV & WTOC will not go digital only until June.

See page 40: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf

WSAV and WTOC have had a digital signal for many years, I have not seen a analog signal on WSAV for 2 days. and wish they would all shut down analog now.

Yea, ya gotta figure if someone really wanted to watch tv they would be ready. Then again if all you have are rabbit ears or an antenna, you probably dont watch a whole lot of tv anyway.

Good luck to the one who waited till the last minute.

I checked WSAV's analog signal, yesterday, and I was still receiving it here in Treutlen County, GA. Perhaps they were just making some technical adjustments. I don't usually watch NBC, anyway.

Love him or hate him, you gotta give him a little credit for his humor. I really enjoy his editorials at the end of the news. You know, right before I change the channel so I don't catch Katie.

http://www.wtoc.com/global/story.asp?s=9852567

By Bill Cathcart - email

As a follow-up on DTV's transition status, the President has now signed the law moving the date for the national transition, from analog TV to digital, to June 12, 2009.

While several stations around the country will go ahead with their move to DTV on the original, no-way-it'll-change-date of February 17, most, now, will not.

The Federal Communications Commission has announced several regulations, clearly aimed at discouraging stations from going solely-digital on February 17, a date that is now considered by Congress and the FCC to be "early."

One of the new regulations prohibits stations who will be changing digital channels, at the time of the switch, from going early. Since WTOC will be moving from DTV Channel 15 back to DTV Channel 11 when the switch is made, so as to preserve our now-55-year telecast tradition, we are thus prevented from making that change February 17.

Regardless, as indicated, most stations across America, including those owned by the Big Four Networks, will be waiting until June due to the bureaucratic high-hurdles now set in place.

Bottom line: WTOC's analog service and digital service will continue, up-to, on and after February 17, just as before. No changes. Viewing as usual.

For those waiting for converter box coupons from Mother Government, be aware that the $600-million to support them is stuffed inside the unconscionably-obese government spending package, destined to stimulate only government-growth, meaning it may be awhile, yet, before new or renewed coupons arrive.

Regardless, please do not wait, now, until June to get digital-ready. Solve it with cable, satellite subscription, or converter box or digital set purchase.

Prepare, now, for June 12, the absolute final, drop-dead, won't-be-changed-no-matter-what Big Switch date....probably!
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:D

I just found some new filings on the FCC web site that suggest all the Savannah stations with the exception of WTOC will be ceasing analog operation at midnight on Februrary 17 per the original schedule.

WVAN, WJCL, WTGS and WGSA were already confirmed as shutting down analog service. A new WSAV filing dated 2-10-2009 says they are also shutting down analog on February 17 to save money on maintenance and the power bill for their analog equipment.

I just found some new filings on the FCC web site that suggest all the Savannah stations with the exception of WTOC will be ceasing analog operation at midnight on Februrary 17 per the original schedule.

WVAN, WJCL, WTGS and WGSA were already confirmed as shutting down analog service. A new WSAV filing dated 2-10-2009 says they are also shutting down analog on February 17 to save money on maintenance and the power bill for their analog equipment.
Good for them. Truth be told, I bet once someone realizes they have nothing more than CBS, they will march their little tail down to Wally World and pick them up a converter.

Working at the Sheriffs office, I have come to learn how the poorest person on the face of the planet can come up with 13% rather quickly when someone needs bailing out of jail.

Correction: From WSAV's website they will NOT switch till June.

Wtoc does have HD, all the prime time shows are in HD. I got my first HD tuner in 2003 and they had HD back then and still do.

How are you determing that they are actually transmitting HD, not ED or SD?
I just flashed my Hisense with an update that shows more info under diagnostics and I think it actually determines the amount of data in the stream, thus the format.
I have to wonder why they tag their transmission as DTV and not HD or SD as the other channels do.
Channel 35 I find to be a could comparison for HD vs. SD.
35.1 is the main and tagged as HD.
35.2 and 35.3 are SD. Quite often one of those two channels will carry the same show as 35.1 and if the show was recorded in HD you can see the difference by alternating the channel. My monitor is 1080i, the format that HD is, and my tuner will do that as well. No up conversion. I have not looked at other high end OTA tuners closely but do wish mine had a digital output of high quality. I would think that the input box on the Panasonic has good capabilities of taking the component (Y, Pr, Pb) and turning it into RGB for the screen.
Since you, Jim, have dabbled with this for some time, do you know how the digital signal is comprised or coded to carry the various parts of a picture. I fully understand analog and the stages of a receiver.
With analog, the tuned RF channel was sent to an IF stage of 3 and sometimes 4 stages of amplification. (the IF had to have a flat 4.5MHz band pass) Then the AM (picture) and FM (sound) were separated. Sync pulses were pulled and sent to the horizontal and vertical sweep circuits. The next stage separated the luminance (black and white) and the chroma signals. The chroma went to a demodulator with the 3.58 oscillator, synced as well, and turned the sideband signal into Pb and Pr components. So, at that point you have the Y,Pb,Pr components. The final stage being a mixer that turns those three components into RBG to fire the guns of the picture tube. (Often in the older sets there was a driver stage after the RGB separation.)
It is said that the Y,Pb,Pr signal was necessary to save on bandwidth, which is true for TV transmission, but not when interconnecting components such as a VCR or laser disc to the TV. It sort of makes me wonder why a manufacturer of such a components did not add Y, S-video, Y,Pb,Pr, or RGB jacks all at one time to their TV line, or jump straight to just the Y,Pb,Pr or for better still picture at slightly more cost the RGB. After decoding the analog tape or digital disc they were arriving at the Y,Pb,Pr signal. And the first ones that included an RF output had to convert that back to a luminance and chroma signal (S-Video), then combine them (Y, composite), mix in the audio, then send it through an RF modulator. A lot of unnecessary circuitry to achieve the poorest signal transfer. What I'm saying is that the Y,Pb,Pr inputs should have been installed on TV from very beginning of VCR or such. True they still would have to build in the RF modulator for a number of years to maintain backward compatibility, but they would have made the jump in one stage. Not eventually drop RF but still be stuck with composite and S-Video costs and poorer picture.
At least with computers and monitors they started with a RGB signal in the mainstream. (Some of those defunct systems started with using a TV as a monitor and it was quickly learned the quality of picture was bad.) A much faster transition from early consumer to fully digital than our TV system.
I wonder what will be next?

Good for them. Truth be told, I bet once someone realizes they have nothing more than CBS, they will march their little tail down to Wally World and pick them up a converter.

Working at the Sheriffs office, I have come to learn how the poorest person on the face of the planet can come up with 13% rather quickly when someone needs bailing out of jail.

Again the middle class gets the weenie. Coupons that are restricted to very poor output boxes that only put out a SD signal and I heard that it was an additional $800M for boxes.

WGSA & WTGS have both announced they are shutting down. I still have not been able to tune PBS on my digital boxes. I'm currently using rabbit ears and find that I get the best with the dipoles collapsed because they are all on UHF currently. I still have to try my antenna once I get it fired back up (new cable lead). My main issue currently is drop outs because of multiple path signals. My signal strength meter is apparently derived after decoding and filling of the buffers. Although there is some circuitry built in to handle the time shift between signals, the gate is not wide enough to handle extremes and when the multi-paths reach that point of out of phase I get a momentary drop if the antenna is not adjusted carefully. I determined this to be the cause when I noticed I was recieving a very strong signal for a length of time but at equal periods of time it would momentarily drop to zero, indicating the inability to synchronize the multi-path signals. (Such might show up as ghosting with analog)

You are overthinking the whole thing, I have a Pioneer 50in plasma that has a HD tuner.
I do not need anything to tell me when the signal is HD, I can see it. I also have 3 Dish HD DVRs with OTA HD tuners, I can record HD from Sat or antenna.
Forget DVD recorders... they will not DO HD and do not have HD tuners
My friend has a HD TV with no tuner, several weeks ago he ask about getting HD. We went on Ebay found a old Sami SIRT 151 HD tuner, a Eagle aspen 2 bowtie antenna
, all for less than $70. Now he gets all the Sav stations in HD, no dropouts.
Get your big antenna hooked up, dump the bunny ears, find a good HD tuner and If you want to record look at the DTV-PAL DVR.

Y'all, I no longer live in Savannah. I'm in college (Emory), but would still like to know of any of the broadcast stations other than WSAV and WTOC actually shut off as of yet. Any insights? Just want to know what to expect over summer or spring break.

PBS,ABC,FOX and CW all are ending analog tonight as should CBS and NBC

PBS,ABC,FOX and CW all are ending analog tonight as should CBS and NBC

Not sure what the above means, but CBS & NBC (WTOC & WSAV) will continue analog service through June. WVAN (and WJWJ), WJCL, WTGS & WGSA all go digital only tonight.

I checked 9 and 13 this morning, still no PBS for me.
I will have to keep checking. I've heard there is some sort of issue with some boxes or maybe PBS signals. Something about the way they are transmitting the PID portion of signal?
All other channels are on the same frequency.
Some may remember that years ago WSAV made a channel swap with one of the two other majors. Reason being that they had greater range at the lower frequency and power limits at that time. Now being way up on 39 they may regret that. Will that be there permanent home, or will they try to get 19 when WTOC goes back to 11?

WSAV & WJCL flipped network affiliations briefly in the 80's, but stayed on their assigned channels.

Ok, how about some reports on how strong DTV 22, 28, 9 & 34 are coming in?

no change on 22 and 28... they are still on DTV23 and 27 No 34 it is 35 and no change ,9 is a little better but still low signal and for me about 30 deg off from other Sav channels, I need to move antenna to get 9

Y'all, if I ever get like this, commit me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ4iIM8Eljc&eurl=http://www.infowars.com/hidden-spy-camera-mic-found-inside-digital-tv-box/&feature=player_embedded

Y'all, if I ever get like this, commit me.



Not a problem so long as one wears a tinfoil hat. :)

You are overthinking the whole thing, I have a Pioneer 50in plasma that has a HD tuner.
I do not need anything to tell me when the signal is HD, I can see it. I also have 3 Dish HD DVRs with OTA HD tuners, I can record HD from Sat or antenna.
Forget DVD recorders... they will not DO HD and do not have HD tuners
My friend has a HD TV with no tuner, several weeks ago he ask about getting HD. We went on Ebay found a old Sami SIRT 151 HD tuner, a Eagle aspen 2 bowtie antenna
, all for less than $70. Now he gets all the Sav stations in HD, no dropouts.
Get your big antenna hooked up, dump the bunny ears, find a good HD tuner and If you want to record look at the DTV-PAL DVR.
It does feel like my brain is about to smoke.
I checked that box versus the one I have. Not much difference. It has an extra set of audio out and coax audio. But I don't know if anyone knows what that future port is or what it is for. On the Hisense it is USB upgradable. Although it lacks all the buttons on the front, those switches on the back of the Samsung are replaced with menu choices. And the EPG seems to be a bit more user friendly such as changing channel to the highlighted program with "enter".
And the remote is the best remote I've ever used. It is ergonomic for the hand and all buttons are convenient. The only way they could improve it would be lighted buttons.
Your post did prompt me to look deeper into the Samsung line and I would consider one of the others such as T451. Some offer both NTSC and ATSC and CQAM. Also DVI-D, VGA, ETC. DVI-D being easily converted to HDMI.

And as to an antenna, I would want one that also does the upper band VHF for channels 7 & 9. Since near all channels are near the same direction for me, I can pull them with one antenna probably. The exception being Beaufort PBS. I believe I mentioned that Channel Master used to carry a very wide array of antennae. The best gain and directionality were with those designed for each channel in the lower and upper VHF bands. Those in the UHF range were designed to cover a range of channels like maybe 16 each. And they even had in-between models. Example, if the first covered 14-29, and second
25-40, the in-between might cover 21-32. That way you could fine tune for one channel, a bit anyway, or pick one that might cover two frequencies that one antenna might not do alone.

Thanks again.

WSAV & WJCL flipped network affiliations briefly in the 80's, but stayed on their assigned channels.

Ok, how about some reports on how strong DTV 22, 28, 9 & 34 are coming in?

Thanks for getting me straight. I knew it was something like that.
Bottom dollar being market share with area coverage.
I love this digital stuff, but will probably keep cable just to get FOX News Network, unless someone knows a better way to get it. Documentaries, commentaries, editorials, etc are always the opinion of someone no matter which channel. But when it comes to reporting news, I've caught the other ones too many times altering the facts. Where Fox might run the whole complete segment I caught the others doing stuff I don't like. Covering what was a breaking story during the day, Fox went live. And re-ran it several times the rest of the day. Two of the other Majors changed it this way. One of them edited it by clipping audio (and video) out totally changing the meaning. They did it in at least three points. So when I heard that night after hearing several times on Fox I almost knew it word for word. The first meaning change caught me. The second I was thinking no way. And the third I barely caught the slight jump in video that told me what they had done.
And one of the other networks dubbed their own opinion over the real audio.
Purely shameful at least.

Not a problem so long as one wears a tinfoil hat. :)

Maybe, but I suspect in this case you need to dress in IR proof clothing

For those of you still having problems with WVAN-DT (the channel 9 PBS station), it's because of the digital conversion delay Congress foisted upon us. WVAN moved to their assigned VHF 9 frequency and went digital only this week. But because some other station all the way over in Columbus chose to wait and transition in June, WVAN has to run at reduced power to prevent interference. This info is in a last-minute filing on the FCC site regarding WVAN's DTV transition update.

WVAN is running at only 2 KW ERP. They can go to 20 KW ERP after June 12 when that other station makes the digital switch. WVAN was only 1.3 KW ERP on their pre-transition channel 13, so their digital reach has been limited. I was surprised that a station all the way over in Columbus, GA would need protecting from WVAN's DTV signal. After all, WVAN was authorized for 316 KW peak ERP on their old analog signal.

So looks like those of us further out in the boonies (and from the posts here, even some of you Savannah city slickers) will have to wait until June 12 to benefit from WVAN's full-power DTV signal.

For those of you still having problems with WVAN-DT (the channel 9 PBS station), it's because of the digital conversion delay Congress foisted upon us. WVAN moved to their assigned VHF 9 frequency and went digital only this week. But because some other station all the way over in Columbus chose to wait and transition in June, WVAN has to run at reduced power to prevent interference. This info is in a last-minute filing on the FCC site regarding WVAN's DTV transition update.

WVAN is running at only 2 KW ERP. They can go to 20 KW ERP after June 12 when that other station makes the digital switch. WVAN was only 1.3 KW ERP on their pre-transition channel 13, so their digital reach has been limited. I was surprised that a station all the way over in Columbus, GA would need protecting from WVAN's DTV signal. After all, WVAN was authorized for 316 KW peak ERP on their old analog signal.

So looks like those of us further out in the boonies (and from the posts here, even some of you Savannah city slickers) will have to wait until June 12 to benefit from WVAN's full-power DTV signal.

It would be my guess that maybe there was no channel 9 in Columbus prior to digital.

WTVM is on channel 9 in Columbus. Their analog has always been on channel 9. I can occassionally receive them when there is good vhf signal propagation. But their analog coutour falls short of Macon and Cochran, so I see no reason to deny WVAN full power digital, especially when you consider that, at one time, both stations were full-power analogs operating at 316 kW.

WTVM is on channel 9 in Columbus. Their analog has always been on channel 9. I can occassionally receive them when there is good vhf signal propagation. But their analog coutour falls short of Macon and Cochran, so I see no reason to deny WVAN full power digital, especially when you consider that, at one time, both stations were full-power analogs operating at 316 kW.
Seems weird to me as well, but here is the link to the document on the FCC web site --

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=730254

It specifically says they are protecting WTVM until the new June transition date. The whole document is 172 pages of engineering stuff, but the summary is on pages 2 and 3.

Seems weird to me as well, but here is the link to the document on the FCC web site --

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=730254


Thanks for the link. IMHO, the FCC has failed to properly model the "real world" dtv coverage. From all that I've read in the forums, a station can significantly increase its ERP and gain only a small increase in their service contour. I live on the fringe of 3 DMA's. A modest increase in ERP would provide me with a more stable digital lock. Plus, too many UHF stations are directional. Could they not have made a better choice of channel allocations?

Oh, well, I've beat that drum enough times. I guess I could always install a 150-ft tower!

Thanks for the link. IMHO, the FCC has failed to properly model the "real world" dtv coverage. From all that I've read in the forums, a station can significantly increase its ERP and gain only a small increase in their service contour. I live on the fringe of 3 DMA's. A modest increase in ERP would provide me with a more stable digital lock. Plus, too many UHF stations are directional. Could they not have made a better choice of channel allocations?

Oh, well, I've beat that drum enough times. I guess I could always install a 150-ft tower!
Something about this does not smell right and can't help wonder if there is something hidden going on.
WTVM, is owned by the same people as our local channel 11.
If you pull up those FCC maps showing area coverage, and specifically look at WTVM 9 analog and WVAN 9 digital, you will see that there is quite a bit of distance between the coverage circles. WTVM 9 digital coverage is smaller than the analog. This is because they would have limited power on channel 9 digital because it would interfere with another digital station in that area. So they have requested that there final frequency be on channel 11 after they shut down the temporary UHF transition frequency. This would allow them to transmit full, maximum legal power for that band, and it appears the request has been granted.
And I chose a point that appeared to be outside either the Savannah or Columbus coverage area, McRae, GA. I then checked antenna web and there are no, none, zero predicted analog or digital receptions expected at that location.
So who is interferring with whom?
If you can not get WVAN, then WTOC and other locals can expect greater viewership for the next five months.

Thanks for the link. IMHO, the FCC has failed to properly model the "real world" dtv coverage. From all that I've read in the forums, a station can significantly increase its ERP and gain only a small increase in their service contour. I live on the fringe of 3 DMA's. A modest increase in ERP would provide me with a more stable digital lock. Plus, too many UHF stations are directional. Could they not have made a better choice of channel allocations?

Oh, well, I've beat that drum enough times. I guess I could always install a 150-ft tower!

I'm not sure what you mean by UHF stations being directional? The maps I've looked at seem to be fairly circular although they can tune an antenna system to provide stronger lobes in certain directions but that often creates other unwanted side-lobes and gets complicated.
Were you referring to the unwanted multi-paths that can occur over a very wide band of frequencies? Or possibly that the higher you go in frequency the more directional the signal becomes and thus susceptible to interferrence by trees, tall buildings and water towers, etc. Even bad weather is more likely to effect the higher frequencies available.
A 150 ft tower has hope, but needs prayer that you still would not have some strange interferrence. It would have to be lighted and likely permitted because of aviation. It would need to be line of sight to ensure best power and that would not guarantee against interferrence by a strong electromagnetic field from some other transmitter. Hopefully you would find one of the most recent tuners that can handle the multi-path situations.
But such tall objects become a magnet for VFR. I had a pine tree that was likely about 120 feet tall, before lightning got it. Every military aircraft in the area used it as a VFR approach into the base and way point when heading to beach patrol. They can provide a fair amount of ghosting along with rattling windows, especially those double rotor like Chinooks.

Something about this does not smell right and can't help wonder if there is something hidden going on.
WTVM, is owned by the same people as our local channel 11.
If you pull up those FCC maps showing area coverage, and specifically look at WTVM 9 analog and WVAN 9 digital, you will see that there is quite a bit of distance between the coverage circles. WTVM 9 digital coverage is smaller than the analog. This is because they would have limited power on channel 9 digital because it would interfere with another digital station in that area. So they have requested that there final frequency be on channel 11 after they shut down the temporary UHF transition frequency. This would allow them to transmit full, maximum legal power for that band, and it appears the request has been granted.
And I chose a point that appeared to be outside either the Savannah or Columbus coverage area, McRae, GA. I then checked antenna web and there are no, none, zero predicted analog or digital receptions expected at that location.
So who is interferring with whom?
If you can not get WVAN, then WTOC and other locals can expect greater viewership for the next five months.

I imagine everyone agrees with you, but the FCC implements some rather stringent requirements. A signal that can't be received can still increase the noise floor, though I'm not sure that's what's going on. The FCC has required such things in other areas.

I'm not sure what you mean by UHF stations being directional? The maps I've looked at seem to be fairly circular although they can tune an antenna system to provide stronger lobes in certain directions but that often creates other unwanted side-lobes and gets complicated.
Were you referring to the unwanted multi-paths that can occur over a very wide band of frequencies? Or possibly that the higher you go in frequency the more directional the signal becomes and thus susceptible to interferrence by trees, tall buildings and water towers, etc. Even bad weather is more likely to effect the higher frequencies available.
A 150 ft tower has hope, but needs prayer that you still would not have some strange interferrence. It would have to be lighted and likely permitted because of aviation. It would need to be line of sight to ensure best power and that would not guarantee against interferrence by a strong electromagnetic field from some other transmitter. Hopefully you would find one of the most recent tuners that can handle the multi-path situations.
But such tall objects become a magnet for VFR. I had a pine tree that was likely about 120 feet tall, before lightning got it. Every military aircraft in the area used it as a VFR approach into the base and way point when heading to beach patrol. They can provide a fair amount of ghosting along with rattling windows, especially those double rotor like Chinooks.

Lots of stations have directional patterns. The notable ones in Savannah are WTGS and WGSA.

- Trip

I imagine everyone agrees with you, but the FCC implements some rather stringent requirements. A signal that can't be received can still increase the noise floor, though I'm not sure that's what's going on. The FCC has required such things in other areas.
I would suspect not! Remember the town I picked between the two shown radiation patterns is considered a dead zone for any TV signal.
Anyone in that area that might have hope of receiving a TV signal would then have to use a very high gain, excellent directionality, antenna. Anyone living along that border area trying to get Columbus would then have the back of the antenna pointed toward Savannah and vice versa, thus giving good rejection of the unwanted signal and noise to that end of the antenna.
I have not studied the digital signal so I don't know what its composition is and suspect it could raise havoc with an analog signal if it was strong enough to compete. Analog has an RF amp at the tuner stage to amplify the tuned frequency before mixing it and extracting the IF component. The time on the AGC of that first amp is such that it does not change so fast as to distort a few fields of sweep. The IF stages also have an AGC and forgive me if I call it wrong as it has been 40 years. It seems that the AGC at this point is derived possibly from the vertical sync or horizontal sync pulses. That way it would be keeping each line or each frame within certain limits and not trying to change with the video or audio portions which must change according to luminance, chroma, or FM modulation for audio. To achieve a quality picture the amplification has to be very near linear with very low distortion. And thus should be able to pass the digital pulses through the IF stage. At that point the separation of audio, luminance, and chroma take place. And I don't know how the digital is coded so I really can not say if it would affect the FM audio, or if some of it might be fed to the color mixer. But it would certainly be detected and distort the luminance with every pulse that is higher than the analog luminance signal since it is detected simply as AM via a diode or other similar circuitry.
But, again it should never get past the front end with a good antenna. The front to back, signal to noise ratio needs to be high enough for the desired channel to show up as something other than snow and thus the front to back ratio would be taking care of the interferrence. If it don't work when pointed toward Columbus, then they need to try pointing toward WVAN, Pembroke. With the current rules, it is likely they are preventing a lot of people in that fringe area from getting WVAN which might be their only reception OTA.
It should certainly boost cable and dish subscription in that area.


Lots of stations have directional patterns. The notable ones in Savannah are WTGS and WGSA.

- Trip

I'll have to take a closer look at some of the maps again. Now that I think of it, I think some of the Augusta stations had such patterns and noted that some of them could reach the northern half of Effingham county.

I'll have to take a closer look at some of the maps again. Now that I think of it, I think some of the Augusta stations had such patterns and noted that some of them could reach the northern half of Effingham county.

I don't know what the FCC's logic would be in preventing WVAN-DT from going to full power, but they've done so. Not the first stupid thing they've done this year. :rolleyes:

As for the directional patterns, I'll link you:

WTGS: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?frame=Y&temp=88321&rotate=0.00&p0=0.520&p10=0.390&p20=0.280&p30=0.230&p40=0.280&p50=0.430&p60=0.610&p70=0.770&p80=0.840&p90=0.770&p100=0.610&p110=0.430&p120=0.280&p130=0.230&p140=0.280&p150=0.390&p160=0.520&p170=0.700&p180=0.850&p190=0.940&p200=1.000&p210=0.970&p220=0.920&p230=0.880&p240=0.900&p250=0.920&p260=0.921&p270=0.950&p280=0.900&p290=0.880&p300=0.920&p310=0.970&p320=1.000&p330=0.940&p340=0.850&p350=0.700&p360=0.520&

WGSA: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?frame=Y&temp=77877&rotate=0.00&p0=0.868&p10=0.876&p20=0.870&p30=0.854&p40=0.832&p50=0.809&p60=0.791&p70=0.788&p80=0.796&p90=0.806&p100=0.822&p110=0.842&p120=0.860&p130=0.861&p140=0.839&p150=0.790&p160=0.710&p170=0.618&p180=0.568&p190=0.561&p200=0.588&p210=0.668&p220=0.789&p230=0.899&p240=0.973&p250=1.000&p260=0.980&p270=0.917&p280=0.823&p290=0.721&p300=0.632&p310=0.580&p320=0.607&p330=0.685&p340=0.770&p350=0.836&p360=0.868&

- Trip

A 150 ft tower has hope, but needs prayer that you still would not have some strange interferrence. It would have to be lighted and likely permitted because of aviation.

Sorry, I was being a bit facetious with the 150-foot tower comment. :D

I use to work in the broadcasting industry and am aware that tower height is regulated. In fact, I don't know if a private citizen can have a tower that high.

Most of the towers around here that are for tv reception are 64 feet tall. I want my installation to be such that I can keep it serviced myself. So, I will make do with a 45-ft telescoping mast. :)

Most of the towers around here that are for tv reception are 64 feet tall. I want my installation to be such that I can keep it serviced myself. So, I will make due with a 45-ft telescoping mast. :)

Aw, come on Rick -- a real man would anchor a Rohn BX64 in about a half yard of concrete and then climb it wearing shorts, no shirt, a pair of flip-flops and no fall-protection harness... :D

I am, of course, kidding...;)

Sorry, I was being a bit facetious with the 150-foot tower comment. :D

I use to work in the broadcasting industry and am aware that tower height is regulated. In fact, I don't know if a private citizen can have a tower that high.

Most of the towers around here that are for tv reception are 64 feet tall. I want my installation to be such that I can keep it serviced myself. So, I will make do with a 45-ft telescoping mast. :)

And I was just giving you a little poke in the ribs. But you have the right idea, that is to get above everything or live under the tower to pick up that weak signal. Foil hat optional.

Aw, come on Rick -- a real man would anchor a Rohn BX64 in about a half yard of concrete and then climb it wearing shorts, no shirt, a pair of flip-flops and no fall-protection harness... :D

I am, of course, kidding...;)

Many years ago, myself and two friends were on a night of major celebrating before we left our home town. We had joined the USMC on the buddy system. After closing every bar we proceeded to have a look at the lay of the land about us from the highest point available from the top of a hill. And on that hill was a 450' telephone relay tower. Every 50' was a landing that allowed walking the perimeter of the tower. But, the rest of it, the climbing rungs were open all the way to the top. The top was a big flat platform and after a look around we laid on the iron grating taking a nap till the sun came up. Once satisfied we climbed down.
Looking back I can say "STUPID!".

Aw, come on Rick -- a real man would anchor a Rohn BX64 in about a half yard of concrete and then climb it wearing shorts, no shirt, a pair of flip-flops and no fall-protection harness... :D

I am, of course, kidding...;)

Many years ago, myself and two friends were on a night of major celebrating before we left our home town. We had joined the USMC on the buddy system. After closing every bar we proceeded to have a look at the lay of the land about us from the highest point available from the top of a hill. And on that hill was a 450' telephone relay tower. Every 50' was a landing that allowed walking the perimeter of the tower. But, the rest of it, the climbing rungs were open all the way to the top. The top was a big flat platform and after a look around we laid on the iron grating taking a nap till the sun came up. Once satisfied we climbed down.
Looking back I can say "STUPID!".

Dishnetwork should have HD locals on this week, they are on Sat 129. Look in your HD list

Dishnetwork should have HD locals on this week, they are on Sat 129. Look in your HD list

Got 'em.

Dishnetwork should have HD locals on this week, they are on Sat 129. Look in your HD list

Well, that's just my luck. Been waiting 2 years for HD locals on Dish and when they finally start beaming, they're on a Sat I don't get. I get 110/119 on one dish and 61.5 on another. The other old HD Sat was below the tree line so I had to go with a second dish pointing up at 61.5. Does anyone know, if the new 129 is just as low in the sky as the old one? Even if I do have line of sight, I don't know if I can just add a 3rd LNB to my dish or if I'd have to move up to the oval model to get all three Sats. If I can't shoot 129 is there any chance they'll duplicate the channels on 61.5 like they do all the other HD channels? Or do they not do that with spot beams?

Well, that's just my luck. Been waiting 2 years for HD locals on Dish and when they finally start beaming, they're on a Sat I don't get. I get 110/119 on one dish and 61.5 on another. The other old HD Sat was below the tree line so I had to go with a second dish pointing up at 61.5. Does anyone know, if the new 129 is just as low in the sky as the old one? Even if I do have line of sight, I don't know if I can just add a 3rd LNB to my dish or if I'd have to move up to the oval model to get all three Sats. If I can't shoot 129 is there any chance they'll duplicate the channels on 61.5 like they do all the other HD channels? Or do they not do that with spot beams?
!29 is a new bird with more power and spot beams. They also have a better one at 61.5 with spotbeams but none of them are good down here so 129 is the only one that they will use for here. 129 is at 251 deg and elev is 26-27 deg.. Mabe you have a low spot in trees to hit it. A 2 dish setup like you have is always better than a single dish setup. I had to put my 129 dish in the back yard to hit a hole in the trees, get a better signal on the new 129 than was on 61.5. I have one hole that I use for 110/119 and 129. A single dish for each sat.

WJCL, WTGS & WGSA all go digital only tonight.

Can anyone confirm that these 3 stations ended analog operations on 2/17? Are any of them operating nightlights?

Thanks,

Yes all 3 ended their analog signal, look at the FCC's website.

Yes all 3 ended their analog signal, look at the FCC's website.

Thanks.

I don't trust the FCC analog end list as it is full of errors. I am trying to verify by other sources.

Is WJCL operating as a nightlight?

Thanks.

I don't trust the FCC analog end list as it is full of errors. I am trying to verify by other sources.

Is WJCL operating as a nightlight?

What is a nightlight??

A nightlight is an analog station that remains on after other stations in the market have made the switch to digital. It generally airs information & instructions to those who may not have been prepared for the switch. For example, WAGT (Augusta) has its digital signal on channel 30. All other stations in the Augusta market have gone digital, as well. However, WAGT is still using it's analog RF channel 26 to air continuous instructions on how to receive digital signals for those people "left behind." On March 4, WAGT will shutoff it's analog transmitter... and thus the nightlight will go out.

I can't receive any of the old analog signals from Savannah stations that transitioned in February. My guess is they have ceased with the nightlight. I am on the fringe. Maybe someone closer can chime in. WSAV & WTOC did not transition in February and, thus, are still operating both in analog & in digital.

Thanks for the info Rick, I made the big switch in 2003 and anybody that does not know what is going by now should watch AM radio.

Thanks for the info Rick, I made the big switch in 2003 and anybody that does not know what is going by now should watch AM radio. LOL!!


I was working in the radio industry when they introduced AM stereo! :p I hope this dtv thing has better luck!! :D

WTOC OTA hasn't been in HD for the last couple of days. Has anyone heard anything?

They have the radar down also, got hit in the storm sunday, could be more damage in the HD part

They have the radar down also, got hit in the storm sunday, could be more damage in the HD part

WSPA in Spartanburg lost two towers on Hogback mountain around 7PM last Sunday from ice and high winds.

I called WTOC to fix it, and they still haven't done anything.

I thought I noticed that some shows looked softer than usual, but wasn't paying attention to which channels.
But then something happened on WJCL last night. Part way through the show "Life on Mars", sound suddenly burst from my right rear speaker. I had surround, even on network commercials, up until the local news which is when I went to bed. My amp is a bit old in the tooth and does not have digital inputs but instead decodes the normal left/right channels to several modes and Dolby Pro Logic to 5.1. That is I think the digital 5.1 is transmitted separately from the normal L/R. Maybe they just started encoding that.

I just checked ABC,CBS,NBC and FOX, ABC WJCL is the only one that is NOT sending out DD-5

I just checked ABC,CBS,NBC and FOX, ABC WJCL is the only one that is NOT sending out DD-5
I was not at home last night. But it is interesting that WJCL was not in DD5. Are they usually?
Maybe they have problem that led to them pushing the encoding on the normal stereo bandwidth.

Rabbitears.info shows both ABC and Fox in Charleston and Savannah are only in 720P instead of 1080i. I really can't tell the difference, can you?

Eddie All ABC and FOX stations are 720 and all NBC and CBS are 1080

Eddie All ABC and FOX stations are 720 and all NBC and CBS are 1080

So FOX and ABC are not HD, but ED?

I noticed sound was not coming from rear speakers as it was a couple of nights ago on ABC.
I have to wonder if local engineers are still playing with their new toys.

So FOX and ABC are not HD, but ED?

I noticed sound was not coming from rear speakers as it was a couple of nights ago on ABC.
I have to wonder if local engineers are still playing with their new toys.

I can't tell the difference between 720P and 1080i that both CBS and NBC have. Somewhere I read that 720P and 1080i are about the same. The only way as of now to get 1080P is with Blu-ray. Since February 17th I have been receiving more OTA channels and hope that even inprove more after June's total analog shut down.

Eddie All ABC and FOX stations are 720 and all NBC and CBS are 1080

Yes Jim I know that.

So FOX and ABC are not HD, but ED?

720p is an HD format.

- Trip

720p is an HD format.

- Trip

Unfortunately the format is thrown around rather loosely and can certainly be confusing to consumers. I do know that in the world of ATSC standards, there are 3 formats described, SDTV -standard definition TB, EDTV -enhanced definition TV, & HDTV - high definition TV, and HD is 1080i, the highest available at least for OTA.
SDTV starts with 480i.
EDTV is 480p.
So you are correct that 720p is included as HDTV.
Confusing the public, manufacturers often claim HD if their box is capable of upconverting to at least 1080i, even when the box only has a SDTV tuner. I was just looking at an ad for DISH, and they claim 1080p. Anyone claiming 1080p needs some investigating to get at the truth. I would think that most studios and camera equipment would not be able to record in 1080p unless they had recently done another upgrade of equipment that was almost new. Then the method of distribution of that 1080p signal would have to be looked at. Finally, how are the satelite people transmitting the signal. 1080p would require twice the bandwidth of 1080i unless some special compressor is used. In scenes where very little changes from one frame to the next, a high degree of lossless compression could be acheived. But in scenes such as football where the camera is panning, it is likely no comprssion would be acheivable.
They might be doing like many of the off the shelf makers, of say a DVD recorder, claiming 1080p via the upconverted output of the tuner box.

It seems to me we need better definition and enforcement of the standards covering video devices.
Some of the earlier standards or testing indicated that HD DVD and Blu-ray yielded the same picture quality. The biggest differences were in the amount of data that could be put on one disk. And maybe, that Blu-ray accomadated 7.1 audio, which may have been another play on words. That is they were looking at putting an entire movie on one disk in HD. The Blu-ray claimed they had room for more of those cut scenes and trailers and thus a bit more room to allow for 7.1 encoding. Not that HD DVD could not do it, but that maybe there would be an increase in the number of movies that would require two disks to hold the entire movie. And DVD blanks were getting pretty cheap the last I looked.

The 1080P on dish is VOD, it is downloaded to hard drive over time.
Looks like WJCL is not sending any DD 5.1 I sent an email to them today and ask why

anyone have alist of Comcast QAM channels for Savannah area?

I am only getting about 6 hd qam channels 2 of which are weather.

I remember there being more (ESPN)

The 1080P on dish is VOD, it is downloaded to hard drive over time.
Looks like WJCL is not sending any DD 5.1 I sent an email to them today and ask why

Thanks. They had gotten me with advertising trick, that is they led me to believe their TurboHD is 1080p. Have to read more carefully. And I did not know that VOD had to be downloaded over time. But it prompts a question. What format are they recording to the HDD in to attain 1080p? The older formats would eat up a lot of space.

valleybacker - Comcast stopped sending out the signal for ESPNHD, etc. over a year ago. The only QAM channels in HD are locals only, and once in a while they'll send out NBA League Pass on 84-1 - 84-12, or NHL Center Ice on 80-1 - 80-12.

WJCL local news is in HD! First in the city, I cannot believe this from that station!

Wow, that is very surprising! I will have to check and see if the 11:00 news is as well.

WJCL look great in HD.

valleybacker - Comcast stopped sending out the signal for ESPNHD, etc. over a year ago. The only QAM channels in HD are locals only, and once in a while they'll send out NBA League Pass on 84-1 - 84-12, or NHL Center Ice on 80-1 - 80-12.

Man that sucks! Now if I want HD content more than ABC/NBC/FOX/CBS I'm gonna have to rent one of their HD boxes?

WJCL local news is in HD! First in the city, I cannot believe this from that station!

I know, They were the last station to convert to HD in the Savannah area (primetime wise).

I believe the old CEO got ousted due to old line thinking, and was replaced. I remember reading the old CEO was talking about never going HD, just digital.

Now if they could get the DD-5.1 working.

Now if the clowns behind the scene knew how to run the HD equipment! Especially over on Fox 28 the past few days they've had too many screw-ups! No sound when in the true 16:9 format and filming anchors at the wrong time/angle making them look like the amateurs that they are and will always be!

Cut them some slack southeastga. They are in the middle of a major transition to HD and non-linear editing. I don't see anyone else in the market sending you a HD picture from the field or Studio. As a matter of fact, WTOC can't even put up a graphic in HD over a network feed!

Cut them some slack southeastga. They are in the middle of a major transition to HD and non-linear editing. I don't see anyone else in the market sending you a HD picture from the field or Studio. As a matter of fact, WTOC can't even put up a graphic in HD over a network feed!

It's not all HD news watch the whole news cast and you will see some of their news stories revert back to the 4:3 format and others in the 16:9 format. It's safe to say when WSAV & WTOC go HD you want see all the mistakes WJCL & WTGS made.

Um, plenty of stations started HD news in the studio and do field stories in SD. Especially stories sourced from other stations or from the network. Kinks at the beginning of HD news are not unusual.

My local CBS station beats the other stations in news ratings 2:1 and puts lots of money into everything they do. For the first few days after going HD, they had a noisy, soft audio. It was a loose connection that took a while to track down. This stuff happens. Very few stations replace everything top to bottom when going HD for news.

What would not be excusable is if this continues for more than a month or so. The bugs should be handled by that time.

- Trip

Seems odd to me that 22 & 28 have not added the "HD" tag to their bugs. I'd think I'd want to capitalize on that as much as possible. They went through the expense of building a SC newsroom, and they adveritze that very little, except on their annoying "Coastal Source" drops.

This is a email I got back from TVGOS about the lost of guide when SCETV shut down their analog transmitters. Both CBS stations in this area are owned by the same company and will not at this time carry the guide. I got intouch with TVGOS about the problem.

Response (Todd Mogielnicki) - 04/10/2009 09:42 AM
We are in the process of getting State Wide coverage in South Carolina for TV Guide data. This should be complete in the next 2 months. Thank you for your patience.

Customer (External Caller (SCL1MAS1)) - 02/23/2009 12:32 PM
<<Avaya Modular Messaging>>

Tks for the info, wonder how they are going to do it state wide?

Tks for the info, wonder how they are going to do it state wide?

Don't know, I talked with the owner of both WCSC and WTOC who wants to charge TVGOS for bandwidth. Of course TVGOS won't pay for it. TVGOS said they would keep me updated and when they do, I will post it on AVS.

Whats the deal with Versus HD? Does anybody else see Versus HD with the HD picture squeezed into a 4:3 space on their Comcast HD box also? Its the only channel with this problem. Any help?

Whats the deal with Versus HD? Does anybody else see Versus HD with the HD picture squeezed into a 4:3 space on their Comcast HD box also? Its the only channel with this problem. Any help?

I can't really help you other than to confirm it. It's been that way every time I've tried to watch something on it.

For anybody with the same Versus HD problem, there is a solution. When you turn the box off, immediately press the menu button, you will see an extra picture menu. Go to "4:3 Override: Stretch". This will stretch the 4:3 picture of Versus HD, to normal, but it will also stretch all other 4:3 programming to 16:9.

This is a email I got back from TVGOS about the lost of guide when SCETV shut down their analog transmitters. Both CBS stations in this area are owned by the same company and will not at this time carry the guide. I got intouch with TVGOS about the problem.

Response (Todd Mogielnicki) - 04/10/2009 09:42 AM
We are in the process of getting State Wide coverage in South Carolina for TV Guide data. This should be complete in the next 2 months. Thank you for your patience.

Customer (External Caller (SCL1MAS1)) - 02/23/2009 12:32 PM
<<Avaya Modular Messaging>>

Any new info Eddie

Any new info Eddie

Nothing

Any new info Eddie
I got a response to an e-mail I sent an engineer at SCETV last week advising they were waiting on the equipment and would install it as soon as it arrived. I'm anticipating that by the end of the month, South Carolina should get TVGOS back.

Frances
Sandy Run, S.C.

I got a response to an e-mail I sent an engineer at SCETV last week advising they were waiting on the equipment and would install it as soon as it arrived. I'm anticipating that by the end of the month, South Carolina should get TVGOS back.

Frances
Sandy Run, S.C.

Thank you for that info and please keep us updated if you hear anything else.

Wow, seeing what today is, I'd think this board would be buzzing with activity.

So what kind of reception reports can we provide now that 3 & 11 are digital & at full power?

Both have been digital for 6 yrs and Wsav has been full power starting on June 2006

Wtoc is on DTV 11 now and signal is better

Wtoc is on DTV 11 now and signal is better

But I lost it with the CM4228 antenna.

May need to turn a little, I have a good signal with a 2 bowtie UHF at 15 feet.

But I lost it with the CM4228 antenna.

Are you sure your tuner is on DTV 11 and not still on 15

But I lost it with the CM4228 antenna.
I lost it too. I also cannot rescan WSAV.

I lost it too. I also cannot rescan WSAV.

Bryan you need to go in and remove Wtoc as it was on DTV 15, then go to add channel and put in 11 and see if you get a signal. No need to rescan Wsav 3 nothing has changed they are still on DTV 39 all they are doing is shut off analog.
Only change now is Fox and ABC they will change DTV ch 23 to 22 and DTV27 to 28 some time tonight and will need to be rescaned

Over here in Vidalia I've gotten mixed results from the analog shutoff today.

First, WVAN-DT on channel 9 is now strong and artifact free. They went full-power this morning a little after 6:00 AM. They had been at only 2 KW ERP and their signal out here was weak.

WTOC-DT changed from UHF 15 to VHF 11 and their signal strength for me dropped markedly. I'm assuming they are not yet transmitting on their "maximized VHF" system. Prior to the switch, when their digital feed was on 15, they were my most dependable station behind Fox-28 (WTGS). According to coverage maps, they should about equal WVAN when they are using their maximized 24 KW ERP system.

As oljim said, no change to WSAV-DT. Also no change yet to WTGS-DT or WJCL-DT. Last I read on the FCC site, I thought WJCL-DT was going to wait until they put their maximized facility on the air before they swapped back to 22. Last date I saw for that was August 2009.

Finally, I've never been able to get a good signal from WGSA-DT. I'm just in a total blind spot for them.

So all in all the Big Switch was about a wash for me out here in Vidalia. Gained a strong PBS signal, but lost a bit with my CBS OTA signal. I have the Savannah locals in HD on DirecTV though, so I'm good for the big 4 networks. I only get PBS-HD via WVAN, so I'm happy they are now full-power.

I have two Channel Master antennas, the 4228 and a UHF/VHF yagi. The bedroom tv in on the yagi and i'm picking all channel toward Savannah in including WVAN (9) and WTOC(11) but I can not get those two on the 4228 antenna. I have rescan trying dfferent position with the antenna and will rescan tomorrown after all station should be finish their switch.

Will see how Wtoc works on my 4228, need to replace cable end first.

When I scanned this morning I was picking up WCTV 6.1 Thomasville, GA on CM 4228 antenna.

Bryan you need to go in and remove Wtoc as it was on DTV 15, then go to add channel and put in 11 and see if you get a signal. No need to rescan Wsav 3 nothing has changed they are still on DTV 39 all they are doing is shut off analog.
Only change now is Fox and ABC they will change DTV ch 23 to 22 and DTV27 to 28 some time tonight and will need to be rescaned
Yea, I took it out at lunch and now I have nothing. I had things set to record on there. I better see which ones and change them. I will play around with it tomorrow.

I got one of the new Sony Bravia HDTV's and I did a new setup, still getting the old channel numbers. Anyone else having this problem or is this ok.

WTOC's switch to channel 11 has been an overall improvement for me. I live about 3 miles south of Adrian and, thus far, have been pleasantly surprised. While their signal level is mediocre (per my Magnavox decoder), it has been more stable than it was when they were on RF15. On 15, I was not usually able to get a lock during the day. Granted, my antenna installation needs to be upgraded.

One post-transition problem, and I predicted it, WTVM in Columbus GA skips in here and knocks WTOC off during tropospheric events. This morning, when I lost WTOC's signal, I swung my antenna around and got a lock on WTVM! I really think the FCC should rethink their formula for determining ERP's.

I am using a Winegard 7084 for VHF. It has a 15 dB front-to-back ratio for channel 11 (per Winegard specs). I plan on replacing it with a Funke PSP1922 hi-band antenna that has an average 34 dB ratio. The Funke should do a better job of rejecting signals coming from the rear. Plus, it should boost my signal level by a couple of dB's. I also plan to raise the mast from 30 to 40 feet, perhaps adding another .5 to 1.0 dB. About my only chances of "capturing" even more signal is by using a pre-amp with less noise than the Channel Master 7777 or by installing a tower. That could be expensive.

The tower option is off the table. Man, I would love to get my hands on an Aluma telescoping tower... a 75- or 100-footer!! But, that could make my co-channel problems even worse! You know you're on the extreme fringe when you need to hire an engineer to get an OTA signal!!

I got one of the new Sony Bravia HDTV's and I did a new setup, still getting the old channel numbers. Anyone else having this problem or is this ok.

The channel numbers will be the same as always NBC 3.1/3.2 CBS 11.1/11.2, ABC 22.1, Fox 28.1

Where I live, in Treutlen County, the Savannah towers are about 79 miles away. WTOC, RF channel 11, has a mediocre, but stable, signal. The last couple of evenings, the Savannah area has experienced some severe thunderstorms. The storms were somewhat isolated and located close to Savannah. Even though they were not in my area, WTOC suffered greatly with audio & video dropouts. I am curious to hear from any members who live in the Vidalia area. Vidalia is about 62 miles from the towers. Have you had a chance to view WTOC over-the-air while severe weather was threatening the Savannah area? Signal strength in Vidalia should be moderately stronger than where I live, so I was curious as to how WTOC's performance was there.

How about members who live in Statesboro? Have you noticed any glitches in WTOC's signal during these weather events? You are closer to the towers than Vidalia.

WTOC is much worse for me now after the June 12 transition. It was my second most dependable station behind Fox 28. Now it is only marginally better that WJCL (22). WVAN, on the other hand, now comes booming in with their "maximized" signal after the June 12 date.

All ATSC tuners show different behavior with signal strengths because apparently there is no universal standard for how to display the value. So comparing my signal strength percentage to someone else's is not useful.

However, comparing what I had to what I have on the same receiver is of value. WTOC, when they were on UHF 15, gave me pretty reliable signals in the 50-60 range during daylight hours. This usually bumped up to 70-80 in the evenings. Rare special weather conditions would still kill it (for my receiver, anything below 32 gets unwatchable and it loses lock around 25). Since the transition, WTOC is rarely above 45 for me and is subject to artifacts due to impulse noise (the old little static sparklies you used to see on analog). The storms do make WTOC worse due to the increased impulse noise you get on VHF from the lightning.

WVAN stands up like a trooper now, though. Even pretty severe storms with lightning have not been a problem yet. I guess there is just a much higher margin. WVAN is 70-74 during the day and up into the 80s in the evening.

I have separate UHF and VHF antennas with the Channel Master 7777 U/V preamp. My VHF antenna is an Antennas Direct model cut for channels 7-13. I forget the exact model number, but it's a clone of the similar Winegard unit.

Thanks, bmeeks8, for your input. I am using the VHF portion of a Winegard 7084 combo to receive WTOC and an AntennasDirect DB8 for UHF... all combined with a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp. Before the transition, WTOC was only viewable after 6pm, if at all. Since the transition, I have been able to receive them on channel 11 most of the time. Well, as previously mentioned, it becomes difficult when there is a thunderstorm between my location and their tower. From research on the web, I found that the gain on the DB8 takes a big dip in the channel 15-16 range. That may be why I had trouble receiving WTOC before the transition, when they were on 15. It may also explain why I am having issues with the Fox affiliate in Macon. They are on channel 16. I plan to change to the 91XG for UHF, as well as install a larger hi-band VHF.

I use the 91XG for my UHF antenna and am extremely pleased with it. I don't have test equipment to make a quantitative measurement, but my eyeballs say the performance is leaps and bounds ahead of the Channel Master 4228 it replaced.

Mine is attic-mounted in a bit of a hole and still gets good signals from WTGS and WSAV (and did from WTOC when they were on UHF 15 before June 12).

As I've mentioned before, I get the four networks from Savannah in HD on DirecTV, so I've been dabbling with the OTA as a hobby. I do depend on OTA for my PBS/GPTV HD programming, though. DirecTV does not yet offer PBS in HD for the Savannah market.

Fox 28 went to DTV 28, wonder when 22 will move to DTV 22

I was getting a much better signal last night on WTOC-DT than previously. I noticed on the FCC site they got their new "maximized facility" license issued to them on June 24. The application for it was signed by the WTOC president on June 19. So I'll step out on a limb and hazard a guess that sometime since June 24 they switched on their new 24 kW ERP system. For me last night they were as good as WVAN-DT. I'll need a few more days of the same to be sure it was not a fluke caused by weather.

Last documentation I saw posted on the FCC site regarding WJCL-DT had a potential August date for moving back to 22 for their digital feed. I do know they have recently gone to 565 kW ERP (a bit over half of their eventual 1 MW ERP). The update I read that had the August date (or maybe it just said by August, can't be sure) said they were waiting in line for the digital RF filter needed on the transmitter output. The manufacturer was supposedly booked up. This info was in one of their previous DTV Transition Update letters to the FCC.

Anybody know when and what new HD channels Comcast will give us?

Anybody know when and what new HD channels Comcast will give us?

Supposedly they are supposed to Comedy HD, MTV HD, and VH1 HD on August 3rd upon the movement of Style Network from analog to digital only. Also ESPNU is supposed to be added either then or on the 1st. I think there may be some other channels I failed to mention.

Fox 28 went to DTV 28, wonder when 22 will move to DTV 22

Jim
Are you having any problems with 28 Fox. I can't pick them up on one set and the other they on 28.3 and nothing on 28.1. Rescan doesn't help.

Eddie

This post is on the Greenville forum.

I currently have the TVGOS encoders installed at six of our eleven transmitter sites. Over the next two weeks I hope to finish out the installs. Here is the current status:

Online: WHMC, WJPM, WRET, WNTV, WNEH, WRLK
Pending: WRJA, WNSC, WJWJ, WITV, WEBA

-Shaun
__________________
Shaun Bennett
Engineering, SCETV

Jim
Are you having any problems with 28 Fox. I can't pick them up on one set and the other they on 28.3 and nothing on 28.1. Rescan doesn't help.

Eddie
28 is OK here, I seldom do a scan. When WTOC went to 11 on the 12th I just deleted it and added it as 11 same with 28

This post is on the Greenville forum.

I currently have the TVGOS encoders installed at six of our eleven transmitter sites. Over the next two weeks I hope to finish out the installs. Here is the current status:

Online: WHMC, WJPM, WRET, WNTV, WNEH, WRLK
Pending: WRJA, WNSC, WJWJ, WITV, WEBA

-Shaun
__________________
Shaun Bennett
Engineering, SCETV
Good news

Jim,

I going to leave my CM 4228 up for my main HDTV that I now have Directv on it. My bedroom HDTV is only on a antenna which is a smaller CM VHF/UHF one. I'm trying to find a CM3020 and DOW said they have them on order. Checking with CM they say online there are none in stock. I found it online and will call them to see if they have it in stock.

Eddie

Jim,

I going to leave my CM 4228 up for my main HDTV that I now have Directv on it. My bedroom HDTV is only on a antenna which is a smaller CM VHF/UHF one. I'm trying to find a CM3020 and DOW said they have them on order. Checking with CM they say online there are none in stock. I found it online and will call them to see if they have it in stock.

Eddie

Not sure how many trees you have but I have a Eagle Aspen 2 bowtie UHF (copy of DB2) paid $13 for it and I have no problem with 11.1/11.2 and even get several of the Chars ch and it is only 13-15 fr high. Dow did have them, not sure if they do now. Pn is DTV-2 BUHF

Not sure how many trees you have but I have a Eagle Aspen 2 bowtie UHF (copy of DB2) paid $13 for it and I have no problem with 11.1/11.2 and even get several of the Chars ch and it is only 13-15 fr high. Dow did have them, not sure if they do now. Pn is DTV-2 BUHF

Looking at a map you are much closer to the water than I am and which gives me more trees between. I just check with Dow and the CM3020 didn't come in Friday but he looking for a truck tomorrow. I just want a antenna that will work and not have to buy anymore. The 3020 is the top of the line.

Is anyone else having issues with the Comcast guide/DVR recordings? I have a number of programs that aren't marked as new or repeats, so I'm having to cancel upwards of 20 programs a day that are repeats.

EDIT: Nevermind, it has been acknowledged as an issue and is supposedly being worked on.

I have not been able to view TBS HD ch. 421 all day, has anybody else had this same experience?

TBS (421) isn't working for me right now either.

I'm going to have to get another antenna. I still cannot get WTOC. It wouldn't be a big deal, but that is a station that I use a lot for recording.

I don't want or care to pick up china anymore, so can some of you give me some ideas of a good antenna that gets both UHF/VHF.


uhf W48BH-D 48.1 TBN STATESBORO, GA 225° 8.9 48
* green
vhf WVAN-DT 9.1 PBS SAVANNAH, GA 176° 26.7 9
* blue
uhf WTGS-DT 28.1 FOX HARDEEVILLE, SC 154° 39.3 28
* blue
vhf WTOC-DT 11.1 CBS SAVANNAH, GA 154° 38.5 11
* blue
uhf WJCL-DT 22.1 ABC SAVANNAH, GA 153° 38.6 22
*violet
uhf WGSA-DT 35.1 CW BAXLEY, GA 154° 39.2 35
* violet

Bryan, have you looked at the Winegard 769 series? I think the top model is the 7698. This is a combo antenna for channels 7 thru 69. It may be a good choice because it is for fringe areas and will give you a little "wiggle" room, since you are closer to the towers.

I can't vouch for the the 769's UHF performance. I do know that I am using one of the older Winegard 7084's for VHF and I can receive WTOC @ 78 miles. I won't lie, it's not 100%, but it wasn't 100% reliable with analog. WTOC's signal does fade from time-to-time. Lightning, even when it's just near the tower, causes problems. But, then, I am on the EXTREME fringe.

Winegard will be your best bet for a combo... especially if you don't need low-band VHF's. The 769's are for channels 7 thru 69, so the antenna is much narrower.

Check it out & good luck!

Check out the following links just posted today on the FCC site. WJCL and WTGS owners have filed for bankruptcy protection. Open the links below and then scroll down to the bottom of the page and open the Attachments there.

WJCL: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101323737&formid=316&fac_num=37174

WTGS: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101323738&formid=316&fac_num=27245

Guess this means limited HD improvements at these stations for a while.

Check out the following links just posted today on the FCC site. WJCL and WTGS owners have filed for bankruptcy protection. Open the links below and then scroll down to the bottom of the page and open the Attachments there.

WJCL: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101323737&formid=316&fac_num=37174

WTGS: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101323738&formid=316&fac_num=27245

Guess this means limited HD improvements at these stations for a while.Huh, nothing against them, but it doesn't surprise me.

Bryan, have you looked at the Winegard 769 series? I think the top model is the 7698. This is a combo antenna for channels 7 thru 69. It may be a good choice because it is for fringe areas and will give you a little "wiggle" room, since you are closer to the towers.

I can't vouch for the the 769's UHF performance. I do know that I am using one of the older Winegard 7084's for VHF and I can receive WTOC @ 78 miles. I won't lie, it's not 100%, but it wasn't 100% reliable with analog. WTOC's signal does fade from time-to-time. Lightning, even when it's just near the tower, causes problems. But, then, I am on the EXTREME fringe.

Winegard will be your best bet for a combo... especially if you don't need low-band VHF's. The 769's are for channels 7 thru 69, so the antenna is much narrower.

Check it out & good luck!This is the one I was looking at. I guess I was on the right track.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7080P

I think New Vision Television, the parent owner of WJCL, and WTGS filed for Chapter 11 protection. If you click on a link on the bottom of the FCC page, attachment #5, it shows all of their stations listed for protection. Pretty sad, they were just bought, and now their owners are bankrupt.
Here's an article for it: http://www.televisionbroadcast.com/article/84090

Hey, Bry. This is the Winegard model I am currently using for VHF...

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SHD7084

For UHF, I am using an AntennasDirect DB-8, which I plan to replace with the 91-XG. I have a Funke PSP1922 that I will eventually be using for hi-band VHF... otherwise, I would choose the Winegard 7698...

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7698P

At my distance, the CM 7777 preamp seems to work well and combines my separate antennas.

As always, YMMV.

Thanks, Rick!

I will make a decision shortly. I think most of these I can get at Dow in Savannah. Thanks for the help.

Bryan, what is your current setup? Also, do you live in Statesboro or outside the town in Bulloch County? Have you tried entering your address in TVFool.com? I usually find it much more accurate than AntennaWeb when predicting what signals are in your area. I entered the zipcode 30458 and it shows good signal strength from the Savannah stations. I assume you are planning to mount the antenna outside.

With the Winegard mode 7698, the Channel Master CM7777 pre-amp may overload. Are you currently using a pre-amp? You may not need one with the 7698, unless you are splitting the signal. Winegard makes a pre-amp for use in strong signal areas. I forget the model, but you can check their website. Unless you are in a "valley," a forest, or near a source of interference, you should get excellent reception from all the Savannah stations.

Its outside and about 35-40 feet high. I do use a preamp. I live just off 301 north towards Sylvania and my zip is 30461. I dont think I want to go with the 7698 because of length.

You can probably go a model down in the "769" series from the 7698. While the 7698 is long, the elements are no wider than 53.5" Vs. 110" on the models that receive low-band VHF, so it is really much easier to handle. Remember, it's usually better to have an antenna that may be a bit larger for the job than one that is too small.

I wish I had the signal strengths you have. It looks as though you are also within the Augusta service contour. Both the Augusta and Savannah stations are about 76-80 miles from me; however, Augusta tends to be more reliable than Savannah. In fact, I had to switch from WTOC to WRDW, this evening, to finish watching NCIS, because WTOC's signal kept fading.

Once again, I cannot vouch for the UHF performance of the Winegards. With your signal levels, though, you should be okay. If you are currently using a combo and you can, perhaps, choose a Winegard model that is a little bigger, it should work.

One final note: I assume you get PBS via WVAN (Pembroke)... since WCES (Wrens) is on channel 6 and the Winegard 769's are NOT cut for low-VHF.

As you can see, I'm not in the best location for TV reception...

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3daead7bd8ed23d8

Some of the info is not completely accurate because stations like WFXG & WPGA are dragging their feet with their maximization plans, which TVFool doesn't know because the FCC data is misleading.

Yea, that is kinda what I meant by "picking up china". I used to use Augusta back in the day when several of Savannah stations had not yet gone digital. I think it was NBC and FOX.

I may drop down or take your advice and give the 7698 a try. I'll let you know what I decide and how it works out. Again, thanks for your help!

Bryan

Hey, Bryan... yeah, do inform us about your experience, should you decide to go with the Winegard. I've been happy with the one I have as far as VHF is concerned. It is one model below the 8200. I've had this one for over 6 years. I hope, in that time, they have not tried to cut costs by introducing inferior manufracturing techniques. From what I've read, though, they are still well-built.

It's been a while since I posted here but I noticed another PBS channel out of South Carolina in my Channel line up without doing a scan (33-1, 2, 3). Manually rescanned the channels and 14-1,2,3 (The same as 33-1) are now back in my line up along with an Augusta CBS affiliate, 12-1, 2, 3, which I lost during the initial Digital Transition back in January. I also have the Augusta Fox affiliate 54-1 coming in.

But, since it's early in the morning, I don't expect these channels to last, for they usually disappear before 10 a.m. I just hope the CBS affiliate in Augusta sticks because during football season once in a while they will show a national feed of a Football game as opposed to a regional game which is pretty cool.

This post is on the Greenville forum.

I currently have the TVGOS encoders installed at six of our eleven transmitter sites. Over the next two weeks I hope to finish out the installs. Here is the current status:

Online: WHMC, WJPM, WRET, WNTV, WNEH, WRLK
Pending: WRJA, WNSC, WJWJ, WITV, WEBA

-Shaun
__________________
Shaun Bennett
Engineering, SCETV
Any new info on this Eddie, still no TVGOS here

Any new info on this Eddie, still no TVGOS here

No, nothing here either. I keep checking the Greenville post for a update. He said couple weeks and not sure when the TV guide people will have there part ready. Beaufort guide use to come from WVAV out of Pembroke, GA and I'm not sure if they will put our zip's on WJWJ. I send a email several days ago to TV Guide but have not hear back from them. Walterboro is out of WJWJ and you might want to try 29488 zip just to see if it comes up that way.

I have it set to 29906 and that was WJWJ till the end of the old signal , No big deal, just hope they do the sub channels this time.

I have it set to 29906 and that was WJWJ till the end of the old signal , No big deal, just hope they do the sub channels this time.

Your are so right but it was orginally on WVAN. When I found out they were at very low power and had no plans to repair the problem until the digital change over, TVGOS agreed to add only 29906 on to WJWJ. Now that Georgia ETV and some CBS stations will not carry TVGOS, I don't know what that means for Beaufort. That's way I recommend using 29488 and once it comes up we can try our zips to see if they were included.

For those who have Comcast, ESPN360 is now available. Also, Sportsman Channel, NFL, NBA, and NHL Networks have moved to Digital Starter, and ESPNU is now available on ch. 744

WJCL 22-1 made it to Southeastern North Carolina tonight. First time I have picked up a station from your area.

For those who have Comcast, ESPN360 is now available. Also, Sportsman Channel, NFL, NBA, and NHL Networks have moved to Digital Starter, and ESPNU is now available on ch. 744

Are you sure about ESPN 360? I don't see it all. I have Comcast digital via their converter boxes. What channel do you see ESPN 360 on?

ESPN360 is on ESPN.com its not a channel.

Originally Posted by Eddie39
Shaun,

Can you give an update on WJWJ when it might be completed.

Thanks,
Eddie

Sorry I did not respond sooner, I did not see your post. WJWJ went online today.

Online: WHMC, WJPM, WRET, WNTV, WNEH, WRLK, WRJA, WNSC, WJWJ, WEBA

Pending: WITV
__________________
Shaun Bennett
Engineering, SCETV

Ojim, I'm not getting the guide are you?

No guide here

No guide here

Oljim, I'm getting it on one of my Sony DVR's and I have the clock on the other but its not accurate yet. It should correct itself in a day or two, then I hope to get the guide. Both of these DVR's had to have firmware updates to get the Digial Guide. Now as of my Sony HDTV, I still don't have the guide and Sony telling me that they are working on a firmware update for the tv. I'm thinking you might need to do the same with your set. I have them set to 29906 zip.

Oljim,

Do you have a guide yet?

Eddie

Still nothing Eddie, not going to worry about it. Seldom use the TV tuner when I have 3 HD DVRs with Tuners

Any one else lose their WJCL OTA signal? I'm near Fort McAllister in Richmond Hill.

Any one else lose their WJCL OTA signal? I'm near Fort McAllister in Richmond Hill.
Did you try a rescan?

WJCL has apparently moved from RF23 to RF22. A rescan will get their signal back. Does anyone know if they are operating at full power? At my distance, it probably won't make much of a difference, though.

WJCL has apparently moved from RF23 to RF22. A rescan will get their signal back. Does anyone know if they are operating at full power? At my distance, it probably won't make much of a difference, though.

Not sure but I'm picking them up OTA in Beaufort.

Comcast has now made ESPNU-HD available on ch. 396, just in time for SEC games to be seen this coming Saturday.

Looks like DirecTV people in Savannah will get PBS in HD on Thursday. Per satelliteracer at avsforum.com it will actually be WEBA out of Augusta, a SCETV channel.

Looks like DirecTV people in Savannah will get PBS in HD on Thursday. Per satelliteracer at avsforum.com it will actually be WEBA out of Augusta, a SCETV channel. Do you know anything about DirecTv having the two sub channels?

Sorry, I should have looked at previous posts.

Do you know anything about DirecTv having the two sub channels?


Sorry, I do not

I was wondering if anybody is having a problem picking up WTOC CBS Sav 11.1? It used to be one of my best channels reception wise now I no longer get it. I have tried several rescans with no luck. I live in Statesboro on one of the highest points in the county. I have no problem picking up WJCL ABC, WSAV NBC, WTGS FOX, WVAN PBS, WGSA CW. according to tvfools, I am only 16 miles away from the tower. I have an indoor antenna non powered. As I stated, I have never had any problems picking up any stations with my antenna, just now I no longer pick up WTOC. I have used several different tv's to tune into the channels and none pickup WTOC. I was really angry when I couldn't pick up the game this Sat on CBS. Anybody have any problems too? I not any help please? I like to take my smaller tv's out for tailgates to watch the big games, and cbs shows some great ones.
Thanks

I was wondering if anybody is having a problem picking up WTOC CBS Sav 11.1? It used to be one of my best channels reception wise now I no longer get it. I have tried several rescans with no luck. I live in Statesboro on one of the highest points in the county. I have no problem picking up WJCL ABC, WSAV NBC, WTGS FOX, WVAN PBS, WGSA CW. according to tvfools, I am only 16 miles away from the tower. I have an indoor antenna non powered. As I stated, I have never had any problems picking up any stations with my antenna, just now I no longer pick up WTOC. I have used several different tv's to tune into the channels and none pickup WTOC. I was really angry when I couldn't pick up the game this Sat on CBS. Anybody have any problems too? I not any help please? I like to take my smaller tv's out for tailgates to watch the big games, and cbs shows some great ones.
ThanksMake sure your antenna is both UHF/VHF since WTOC is now a VHF station.

Pretty aggravated!

I didn't take my own advise or that of the posters here. I got a good deal on a channel master antenna, so I bought it. I think its a 3018 100 miles/60 miles.

It's not that I wouldn't go out and buy another antenna right now, I would. It's having to, by myself, get this thing down from the chimney and put another one up.

First off, I unhooked the amplifier. That may be my problem, but again, I cannot bring myself to get back on the roof and pull that thing down again (20 feet of pole). I figured hooked up straight from the antenna to the tv should be fine. Well, I was wrong. I still cannot get WTOC or WVAN in the VHF range. No signal whatsoever.

I'm about as aggravated as I can be, and it was worse, during this time I got hit by lightning. Thats why its taken so long to get this done. My receiver was gone for over a month to Denon, my Dish receiver was hit and it took three trips from Dish to my house to get it right. Just found out my brand new Blu Ray is screwed up (sound only). I have settled with the insurance and they won't pay for that now. Also, I put in ceiling speakers and took down the ones on the wall. Got the receiver back and found out the center channel didn't work. Its been a bad two months.

Having said all that, anyone think I could have something wrong with the antenna that I'm missing? Lets see, put the screws in, get it in the air and hook it up to the tv. Did I miss something?

Wait, when you say "unhooked the amp" do you mean the power injector that you plug into the wall, or did you actually remove the amp part itself from the line at the antenna?

An unpowered amp actually attenuates signal.

- Trip

I took the amp out of the equation. The coax runs directly from the antenna to the tv, well to DISH receiver, then to tv.

I only had it hooked up back when it was hard to get a signal from anywhere.

This is what I had hooked up.

http://www.solidsignal.com/p/?p=2710&d=channel-master-pre-amp-installation-instructions-cm-7777-cm-7778&mc=03

If someone can tell me that it may make a difference, I will hook it back up. I just cant see it being a problem though. Within 40 miles, I would think this antenna could handle it without the pre amp. Also, my run is about 30-40 feet from antenna to tv.

Bryan:

I do not think you need an amp at your distance from the Savannah stations since they are so powerful (tall antennas and relative high ERP). You should get 9 and 11 very well anywhere in Bulloch County with just the antenna.

Is your TV equipped with a digital tuner? If so, did you let it do a full scan after you connected up the antenna?

Pretty aggravated!

I didn't take my own advise or that of the posters here. I got a good deal on a channel master antenna, so I bought it. I think its a 3018 100 miles/60 miles.

It's not that I wouldn't go out and buy another antenna right now, I would. It's having to, by myself, get this thing down from the chimney and put another one up.

First off, I unhooked the amplifier. That may be my problem, but again, I cannot bring myself to get back on the roof and pull that thing down again (20 feet of pole). I figured hooked up straight from the antenna to the tv should be fine. Well, I was wrong. I still cannot get WTOC or WVAN in the VHF range. No signal whatsoever.

I'm about as aggravated as I can be, and it was worse, during this time I got hit by lightning. Thats why its taken so long to get this done. My receiver was gone for over a month to Denon, my Dish receiver was hit and it took three trips from Dish to my house to get it right. Just found out my brand new Blu Ray is screwed up (sound only). I have settled with the insurance and they won't pay for that now. Also, I put in ceiling speakers and took down the ones on the wall. Got the receiver back and found out the center channel didn't work. Its been a bad two months.

Having said all that, anyone think I could have something wrong with the antenna that I'm missing? Lets see, put the screws in, get it in the air and hook it up to the tv. Did I miss something?

I have the CM 3020 antenna and pickup WTOC without an amp here in Beaufort. Have you checked with others close to you receiving OTA to see if they having any problems. Its possible that you in just in a dead zone.

Oljim,

Try using Savannah zip code 31322 for your TV guide and give it several days to see if it comes up.

Eddie

According to a helpful guy at Comcast, who I hope is right, "Project Calvary" should be coming to Savannah in jan - this is what he said - "In January 2010, Comcast will begin the process of migrating many of our analog programs to digital"

"This" network now taking the place of "Tube" which was the old 11-3 Subchannel for WTOC.

Here's some information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_TV

According to a helpful guy at Comcast, who I hope is right, "Project Calvary" should be coming to Savannah in jan - this is what he said - "In January 2010, Comcast will begin the process of migrating many of our analog programs to digital"
Yeah, I've heard of this in other areas. Interesting. Hopefully it'll make way for more HDs and eventually boost the quality of the Standard-def. digital channels which have gone a down a lot since Comcast started the "HD boom". Seems like they can use all the bandwidth they can get.

According to a helpful guy at Comcast, who I hope is right, "Project Calvary" should be coming to Savannah in jan - this is what he said - "In January 2010, Comcast will begin the process of migrating many of our analog programs to digital"


Oh, to piggyback off of that information. I e-mailed them and they gave specific dates for the migration. I don't know the accuracy because I'm in Atlanta. But the representative stated Nov. 4-Dec. 30 as the range for the migrations. They don't normally give specific dates via e-mail, plus my father said he got some notice in a bill or somewhere that addressed such migrations. So it may be happening earlier than the "helpful guy" stated :).

Pixelation everywhere!

When will Comcast add the other .2, .3 etc channels in town?

Comcast actually did add "THIS" network on channel 233 if you have a box.

Never mind... it's baaaaack!!

--------------------

I noticed, this weekend, that WVAN is apparently off the air... unless there is an issue with my setup. I performed a rescan on all receivers and still got nothing. Does anyone have any insight?

I tuned to channel 9 on an analog tv and could hear audio from an FM station on 98.1 MHz. This station is about 19 miles away and in the same direction as WVAN, which is 61 miles distance. Perhaps this is the source of my problem. I am using a CM 7777 preamp, which, I think, is showing signs of breaking down. I've had it in the air for about 3 or 4 years. We've had some cold weather the last few days and I have noticed some weird anomalies on some of the unused low-band analog channels.

I just wanted to rule-out the problem as being on WVAN's end.

Never mind... it's baaaaack!!

--------------------

I noticed, this weekend, that WVAN is apparently off the air... unless there is an issue with my setup. I performed a rescan on all receivers and still got nothing. Does anyone have any insight?

I tuned to channel 9 on an analog tv and could hear audio from an FM station on 98.1 MHz. This station is about 19 miles away and in the same direction as WVAN, which is 61 miles distance. Perhaps this is the source of my problem. I am using a CM 7777 preamp, which, I think, is showing signs of breaking down. I've had it in the air for about 3 or 4 years. We've had some cold weather the last few days and I have noticed some weird anomalies on some of the unused low-band analog channels.

I just wanted to rule-out the problem as being on WVAN's end.

I live in Beaufort, SC and I can't pickup their signal either. FCC shows as of Feb 2009 they only transmitting 2KW if I read this correct.
http://cdbs.recnet.com/fmq.php?facid=23947