GreatGreg: Be careful. You have not said what size screen you are planning. With the UM200 material anything wider than 8' (110" diagonal 16:9) will hot spot at 16' throw. Personally, I would not go with anything higher than the UM150 at 16' throw, unless you are planning a very small screen. Note that hot spotting will not show up on a small sample.

I'm getting a Panasonic PT-AE4000 projector and I'm interested in using a 134" wide 2:35 Silverstar with it in my bat cave. Would this screen be a good choice?

Thank you.

I am using a AE2000u on a 120" 16x9 SS in a bat cave. I would love that 134" 2.35. I am sure you will be very happy with it.

I read the 1st page of this thread which was started in 2003. The comparisons between white/grey/silver were interesting and informative, for the PJ's available at the time, meaning, low contrast, low lumens.

Today I think most of the current PJ's have enough horsepower and contrast to make screen picking decisions quite different than back in 2003.

For instance, I'm thinking of getting a Mits HC3800 which is a light cannon compared to PJ's from 2003 and my current Optoma H31 (currently only a 60" screen). The HC3800 is about 570 lumens @ D65 in low lamp mode. Being that I will run a small screen (small room!), which is only 67"x38" viewable, it seems best to go with a negative gain grey, a .9 gain grey in this case. My room is also not a dedicated theater room, so I can't black out walls, ceilings, etc. Color of room is off-white (kinda peach). So, under these circumstances, a .9 gray screen (being it's small), seems like the better choice.

I got samples Friday night from Stewart -- the UltraMatte 130 (white), the UltraMatte 200 (silver) and the Firehawk G3 (grey).

We watched I LOVE YOU, MAN (funny movie!), and 17 AGAIN (very good movie) with all three samples across the bottom of the screen.

I am not terribly experienced in picture rating, but ....

I'm also awaiting similar samples from Da-Lite and Draper.

Greg

WARNING: Have you ever tried to pick a paint sample from a card or a small patch on the wall? Did you notice that after all your discriminating and struggling that you were completely surprised by what the room looked like when it was all painted?

Samples will fool you completely because your eye can't isolate them or expand them mentally. This sample stuff is very treacherous business.

For example, if you're screen material is capable of hotspotting, you won't get that out of a sample, as has been pointed out.

Definitely leaning towards the white screes now..but i still need samples to view.

Does anyone know if the fabirsc have changed since the original review?

Check out the other recently active High Power threads (at the end). There is a new version of the High Power that has a wider viewing cone and has only dropped to 2.4 gain, while retaining the non-hotspotting characteristics, and the wrinkle hiding properties, and the lateral ambient rejection properties.

Fleaman, with that small of a screen (77" diagnal immig [if my math is good {cause you can't have enough acyronyms}]) in that room I would just go with a rear projection system. an 82" rear projection tv (or 72" if that is too big) is probably the same price as your projector/screen combo, and a lot easier to install and a lot better with ambient light.
Warren.

Fleaman, with that small of a screen (77" diagnal immig [if my math is good {cause you can't have enough acyronyms}]) in that room I would just go with a rear projection system. an 82" rear projection tv (or 72" if that is too big) is probably the same price as your projector/screen combo, and a lot easier to install and a lot better with ambient light.
Warren.

Uhm, a 82" rear projection in a small room :eek:

I already have a front projection set up that works great (as mentioned in my post)....Optoma H31 with a 60" screen sitting about 9ft away. I use a 32" LED LCD for TV stuff then pull the PJ screen down for the movie stuff. In a small room it's great, big screen, practically no footprint. Rear projection would ruin that of course + I never liked the look of rear projection systems at all.

I'm just upgrading....1080p PJ, slightly larger screen (can't go much larger), but with all those lumens, my point was that a grey screen would work better for my set up than say a white or even silverstar as the beginning of this thread mentioned.

Fleaman, with that small of a screen (77" diagnal immig [if my math is good {cause you can't have enough acyronyms}]) in that room I would just go with a rear projection system. an 82" rear projection tv (or 72" if that is too big) is probably the same price as your projector/screen combo, and a lot easier to install and a lot better with ambient light.
Warren.

That's true. Vizio just announced a 75" LCD flat screen for about $3,500 US. How frick'n cool would THAT be?

That's true. Vizio just announced a 75" LCD flat screen for about $3,500 US. How frick'n cool would THAT be?

Well, it's more than 2x more $$$ than a Mits HC3800 + electric grey screen, and I doubt very much it would look better. Plus it would always be there on my wall...looking huge! With a PJ you only have the screen down when you need it.

Well, it's more than 2x more $$$ than a Mits HC3800 + electric grey screen, and I doubt very much it would look better. Plus it would always be there on my wall...looking huge! With a PJ you only have the screen down when you need it.

Well, see I would never have the occasion to have it off. I won't go in a room without a BIG TV being on. But that's just me.

Well, see I would never have the occasion to have it off. I won't go in a room without a BIG TV being on. But that's just me.

Maybe if everything was HD. SD on a 75" from 9ft away is just too horrid for me, but on a 32" from 9ft I can handle it...

Maybe if everything was HD. SD on a 75" from 9ft away is just too horrid for me, but on a 32" from 9ft I can handle it...

Everything IS HD, if you put only HD channels in your favorites list. :D

Ok, so granted you want front projection, there are two schools of thought on handling ambient light, a gray screen to reduce all light, so blacks look blacker, or something like the silverstar or HP to increase light making the brights brighter. So say you take a 1000 lumen projector (using simple numbers for simple math) and a .5 gain gray screen. Now your blacks are good say 5 lumens from ambient (say 10 ambient lumens cut in half by the gain) and your brights are effectivly 500 lumens. If you get a SS or HP screen with say 2 gain: Your blacks are less black now 20 lumens (the 10 ambient gets doubled) but your brights are now 2000 lumens.
so with the gray your brights are 495 lumens above black, with the hp your brights are 1980 lumens above black. Considering your eyes consider black relative to light you get see much more contrast with the HP screen in ambient light.
The video on Vutec's website on the silverstar really does well to present the point I am making.
Considering the size of your screen you will indeed have a smoking bright picture, but I have no doubt you will be greatly impressed. I know my jump to the SS in my non light controlled family room made a vastly larger difference in enjoyment than going to a 1080p projector did.
Note: None of this is accurate, it is just my opinion and presented with bad math and all just to present a point.

And gray screens are duller than dog balls.:D

Ok, so granted you want front projection, there are two schools of thought on handling ambient light, a gray screen to reduce all light, so blacks look blacker, or something like the silverstar or HP to increase light making the brights brighter. So say you take a 1000 lumen projector (using simple numbers for simple math) and a .5 gain gray screen. Now your blacks are good say 5 lumens from ambient (say 10 ambient lumens cut in half by the gain) and your brights are effectivly 500 lumens. If you get a SS or HP screen with say 2 gain: Your blacks are less black now 20 lumens (the 10 ambient gets doubled) but your brights are now 2000 lumens.
so with the gray your brights are 495 lumens above black, with the hp your brights are 1980 lumens above black. Considering your eyes consider black relative to light you get see much more contrast with the HP screen in ambient light.
The video on Vutec's website on the silverstar really does well to present the point I am making.
Considering the size of your screen you will indeed have a smoking bright picture, but I have no doubt you will be greatly impressed. I know my jump to the SS in my non light controlled family room made a vastly larger difference in enjoyment than going to a 1080p projector did.
Note: None of this is accurate, it is just my opinion and presented with bad math and all just to present a point.

I assume this response is for me:confused:

1. I already have front projection, just upgrading to 1080p.
2. I don't have any ambient light (never said I did), but I don't have a black room, it's off white colors (peachy)
3. Your lumens to gain calculations are not correct at all since you have to take screen size (area) into account, which you didn't at all.

With 565 lumens and a 70" wide screen and .9 gain grey screen, you would get 26.76 fL (foot lamberts). 0.9 x 565/19sq ft (70"x39") = 26.76 fL (though it would actually be higher since the screen I might use will only have a 67x38 viewable area).
14-16 fL is considered a good target for a dark theater.

yes, fleaman, I was referencing you. :) You said "My room is also not a dedicated theater room, so I can't black out walls, ceilings, etc. Color of room is off-white (kinda peach)." That = ambient light, even if pitch black the projected image will light up the room creating ambient light.
I said it was bad math :) I was using the effect of the gain on effective lumens of the projector, not fL of the resultant image. I suck at math. I was just pointing out the effective contrast is much higher with the hp screen.
14-16 fL is a good target for a movie theater with a 70 foot screen, quite sad for home. Apples 30" cinema display has 100 fL.

yes, fleaman, I was referencing you. :) You said "My room is also not a dedicated theater room, so I can't black out walls, ceilings, etc. Color of room is off-white (kinda peach)." That = ambient light, even if pitch black the projected image will light up the room creating ambient light.

Actually it's reflective light.

Ambient means light from outside or lights on inside. At least it does around here;)


I said it was bad math :) I was using the effect of the gain on effective lumens of the projector, not fL of the resultant image. I suck at math. I was just pointing out the effective contrast is much higher with the hp screen.

Contrast does not change with screen types, only brightness/black levels (equally). You can increase brightness with HP, but black levels will increase too, and vice versa with grey screens. Contrast stays the same. I'm trying to get better blacks (HC3800 isn't known for inky blacks), by sacrificing brightness which the HC3800 has in spades---especially on the tiny screen I would use.


14-16 fL is a good target for a movie theater with a 70 foot screen, quite sad for home. Apples 30" cinema display has 100 fL.

This is like the difference between a movie theater and a TV. Sure, if I watch sports (don't) or the news, etc., I'd like to watch it at TV fL levels (which I have a LED LCD for). But movies I like to be movie theater like. Even so, I'll still be a good 75% higher than movie theater fL levels with a .9 grey screen (and in fact, many movie theaters are much lower than 14-16fL). 100fL on a 70" screen would literally make me have to put sunglasses on! Even with my lowly Optoma H31 on a 60" screen, going from a black scene to a very bright scene sometimes makes my eyes squint a bit.

I did say effective contrast, not actual contrast ratio (an almost useless stat.) I know the actual contrast ratio doesn't change, I am saying by doubling the levels of black and white, yes, you keep the same mathematical contrast ratio, but the brights are really bright making a bigger difference between black and white. That is why the new super high contrast displays don't make the difference they sound like they should. By lowering the black level you get really good contrast ratios, but the difference between black and white doesn't change very much at all.
I kinda like bright scenes to look like bright scenes myself. I realize there are people trying to reproduce theater dimness, which is really dictated by the poor framerate, rather than quality reasons. I do think most people will take the bright punchy image over the dull one, even on movies.

I do. :D

I kinda like bright scenes to look like bright scenes myself. I realize there are people trying to reproduce theater dimness, which is really dictated by the poor framerate, rather than quality reasons. I do think most people will take the bright punchy image over the dull one, even on movies.

I don't see how I would have any problem getting bright punchy images on a .9 grey with 27fL coming off it :confused:

Well, for one thing to consider is 27fL on a new bulb is probably as low as 13fL as the bulb dims. It could very well be that you will be really happy with the gray screen. It would be nice if you could try both.

Well, for one thing to consider is 27fL on a new bulb is probably as low as 13fL as the bulb dims. It could very well be that you will be really happy with the gray screen. It would be nice if you could try both.

But that's just a subtle, diplomatic and politically correct way of saying if you see them side by side you will dump the gray screen. :D

Very devious. Congrats!:)

But that's just a subtle, diplomatic and politically correct way of saying if you see them side by side you will dump the gray screen. :D

Very devious. Congrats!:)

How can you view them side by side when each will require a completely different calibration in terms of brightness. Even using the definition of ambient light as light coming into the room other than that made by the projector, (one I don’t agree with) saying no external light makes it into the room. You still have the half of the screen that is being overdriven in the case of calibrating to the lower gain or darker screen bouncing light around the room causing an ambient source. In the case of calibrating to the whiter or higher gain screen and under driving the gray screen your eyes iris will set its f-stop based on the brighter half image and clue you to dump the gray screen because it will look to be way to dark.

The only true test IMHO is to view both separate with the same foot lamberts returning to your eyes off each of the screens not out of the projector and then judge the effect of ambient on the perceived CR you see.

:D

All true. You need them set up in two adjacent rooms so you can just slide side to side. Of course, your eyes will have to adjust with each move.

But the trick is getting the same fL out of each screen. You sure can't use the same projector.

Or simply spend a few days with the gray screen and it's measly 27fl, then spend a few days with the hp screen and its lovely 60fL (assuming 2 gain) and see which you enjoy more. Of course the real test would be toward the other end of the bulbs life when you will be comparing 13.5fL from the gray with 30fL from the HP. If 60fL is too bright you could always use an nd2 filter for the first half of the bulbs life.

Or set the bulb on low.

Or simply spend a few days with the gray screen and it's measly 27fl, then spend a few days with the hp screen and its lovely 60fL (assuming 2 gain) and see which you enjoy more. Of course the real test would be toward the other end of the bulbs life when you will be comparing 13.5fL from the gray with 30fL from the HP. If 60fL is too bright you could always use an nd2 filter for the first half of the bulbs life.

I am taking this all under advisement, but still playing devils advocate since no one else is;)

First, some updated calculations: The screen viewable area is actually 67x38, with that we get:
> .9 gain grey x 565(lumens)/17.67sqft = 28.77fL
> 1.0 gain white x 565/17.67sqft = 32fL (31.97 actually)

That's only a 3.2fL difference between .9 grey and 1.0 white.

Now, for those here that are the super high fL fanboys, what fL are you actually getting in your theater? You don't have to actually measure, but just calculate via screen size, gain and lumens your PJ is putting out calibrated (to D65 I assume). I can't imagine anyone is really getting 60fL :eek:

Lamp aging is a good point and something I've thought about. Yet with almost 29fL to start off with, I obviously can afford losing lumens over time. Remember, I don't watch sports/news on the PJ, just movies. I also don't like 'torch' modes, my LCD LED is calibrated at moderate brightness (backlight level), not store torch modes (which I hate). With the lights off at night, I can watch my LCD w/o squinting.

Now, I currently have a 60" matte white BO screen, probably 1.0 gain, so I'll be able to test it out before I buy the grey. I won't bother with a grey 'sample' as it seems to be a waste trying to judge a whole screen/image on just a few sq inches of a sample. But I already know that even with my Optoma H31 on this small 1.0 white screen, there were times in the past (new lamp) when even my guests squinted in slight pain as a scene switched from very dark to very bright. I would think that anyone getting 60fL from a large screen would literally have to put sunglasses on during bright scenes:confused:

ND2 filter> I've thought of this too. But it seems that a grey screen offers benefits the ND2 won't. This, and much of why I'm leaning towards a .9 grey can be explained in this short thread I started in October, and darinp2's article in HT secrets>

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1186634

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles/169-understanding-contrast-ratios-in-video-display-devices.html?start=1

I would venture to guess that most of you posting support for HP screens (or just against grey) and the like are running much bigger screens than me? I can understand that of course, if I was running a larger screen, I would not at all go for a negative gain grey, I'd go white. But my screen viewing area is gonna be only 67x38, matched to a PJ with 565 lumens in low lamp mode.

Thoughts?

Well, my 120" SS is rated at 6.0 gain. My AE-2000U is running normal mode right now, which projectorcentral rates at 900 lumens. So that would be 6.0*900/51.22 = 105.42 fL. I NEVER watch sports/news it isn't hooked up to cable, but I play WoW and XBox on it a lot.
Plus I am only sitting 7' from the 10' diagnal screen. I like the Imax experience. :)

Of course I don't think the SS is really 6.0 gain, and I have a few hundred hours on the bulb. I should pick up a light meter.

Maybe it is just me, but if looking at the sun makes me squint outside, looking at the sun on my projector should make me squint. No gain no pain.
yeah, sorry.

Maybe it is just me, but if looking at the sun makes me squint outside, looking at the sun on my projector should make me squint. No gain no pain.
yeah, sorry.

It's only the reflective rays of the sun we see in the image, not the sun itself. And even in 'sun shots', it's a filtered image....

(though you were probably being sarcastic).

Of course looking into the PJ gives that same 'sun' effect, not matter the PJ.

Well, my 120" SS is rated at 6.0 gain. My AE-2000U is running normal mode right now, which projectorcentral rates at 900 lumens. So that would be 6.0*900/51.22 = 105.42 fL. I NEVER watch sports/news it isn't hooked up to cable, but I play WoW and XBox on it a lot.
Plus I am only sitting 7' from the 10' diagnal screen. I like the Imax experience. :)

Of course I don't think the SS is really 6.0 gain, and I have a few hundred hours on the bulb. I should pick up a light meter.

Ok then!

Wow.

Well, my 120" SS is rated at 6.0 gain. My AE-2000U is running normal mode right now, which projectorcentral rates at 900 lumens. So that would be 6.0*900/51.22 = 105.42 fL. I NEVER watch sports/news it isn't hooked up to cable, but I play WoW and XBox on it a lot.
Plus I am only sitting 7' from the 10' diagnal screen. I like the Imax experience. :)

Of course I don't think the SS is really 6.0 gain, and I have a few hundred hours on the bulb. I should pick up a light meter.
In Tryg's review on the first page of this thread, he says he thinks the gain is more like half that.

Tryg or anyone else, For my Sony VPL-VW60 PJ, should I go with Silver instead of White or Grey. This will be used in family room. THanks!!

Wow, you found a very old thread. I put my projector in my family room and when I got my Silverscreen I was amazed by the difference over my previous white screen (blackout cloth). The video on Vutec's website really shows the difference.
http://www.vutec.com/Products/Vutec_Fixed_Frame_Screens/SilverStar

wnielsenbb, so you are saying to go with Silverscren instead of bright white or gray?

I would without hesitation recommend the SS over white or grey.
I did just read a review of the screen innovations Black Diamond screen however.
This sounds even better. You should google that.
Maybe the thread should be White, Grey, Silver or Black.