Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
Frank... Thats very odd... in what way is the AR messed up... I know 16:9 displays seems fine its just when people use things like 1440x480 that WMP9 gets confused...

Dont understand whats happening... When you run it windowed will it maximize ?? then pressing the fullscreen button does what ??

Of course you need to make sure you dont move the mouse or have it at the screen edge for the bars to dissappear...

I just got it to run full screen by starting it with the tiny window and then double clicking on it.
Unfortunately , the aspect ratio is still messed up.
It should be 2.39 to 1 and it's about 1.78 to 1.
It's unwatchable like this.
I'll ttry it with my D-ILA projector this evening.

Thanks for the help.

Frank

I was able to play the HD version with the latest WinDVD Platinum (after acquiring the license).

With WinDVD Platinum, you can select either DirectSound or Wave audio. You can also set deinterlace method as Bob or Weave.

Jai-

I haven't used Zoom Player in awhile, but I suggest downloading the latest version and giving it a try. It contains controls that allows you to easily select which filters you want to use. I usually select "unregister all filters" first to clean out any registered filters, then select the filter combination I want (in this case something like WM9 video with wave-out audio) and register those. Then simply try to play the file and see if it works. Hopefully there are WM9 filtergraphs already built, but I don't know. Good luck. Again, there is always the motherboard audio if all else fails. Just set that to be your default playback device in the windows control panel.
Mike

Thorr,
Do I need to buy the professional version of Zoomplayer to construct the filter graph to use wave-out instead of direct sound ?
Thanks,
-Jai

No, I didn't know there was a professional version. It was always free when I used it and contains everything you need.

Originally posted by jmcomp124
Thorr,
Do I need to buy the professional version of Zoomplayer to construct the filter graph to use wave-out instead of direct sound ?
Thanks,
-Jai

The professional version is "filterless," so to speak, in that you can just point and click which audio, video, audio renderer, ffdshow, etc. filters you want to use and ZP builds the DVD graph automatically.

You need preconstructed filter graphs with the previous versions. There are many varieties that are included with the pre 3.0 ZP versions.

The pro version is very slick though.

What would the effect of more or less memory have on playback? Would 1GB of Ram make playback any better on a machine that slightly stutters with 512MB's?

And what about bus speeds? I wonder what the playback difference would be on a 2.4GHz machine at 400MHz and one at 800MHz.

Mntneer,
I have wondered about this question. A 400Mhz bus has a lower bandwidth than an 800Mhz bus. For WMV9, the GPU (graphics controller) and CPU (intel processor) share the load in someway where the thread/s in the GPU work with the thread/s in the CPU. The memory on the graphics card essentially reduces memory latency for a memory request from the GPU, as memory is local. For data that will not fit in this memory (say 128MB DDR Radeon), the system memory will be used in which case I think it will use the FSB for data transfer. The higher the bandwidth, the lesser the queing delays and hence lower latency and as an effect better performance. The question is, does a 400Mhz bus cause a bottleneck. It depends on the workload (in this case the DVD player application). I hope the Microsoft folks here in this thread can shed some light into this. If there is a huge amount of data transfer from the GPU to system memory, then Yes, an 800Mhz bus will make a difference. However, it is difficult to say if that would stop the stutter as stutter could be an effect of the CPU not being able to cope up. If the CPU is not able to cope up because of higher memory latency, then it would stop the stutter. Similarly if the application uses all of the 512MB of system memory, then 1GB would make a difference as it would reduce the disk IO latency. On any case, it does not hurt to have higher bus bandwidth and more memory. Identifying these bottlenecks is by itself a very involved process that requires extensive workload anaylsis on any given platform.
-Jai

How many users are able to play T2 HD in WinDVD Platinum? If so, please elaborate. Doesn't work for me, in fact I can't play ANY .wmv files in WinDVD Platinum.
TIA

Originally posted by jpaddle
The T2 DVD requires the user to have the Interactual player (which hosts the Windows Media Player 9 Series ocx) in the drive before a license will be issued. A user may take disc #2 from one PC to another PC (e.g. home network scenario), but the license will only be issued to PC’s that have disc #2 in the drive.


Talking about a home network scenario, I use a cross over cable from my main computer in my office to my HTPC in the living room. I mainly transfer files back and forth. My HTPC has no internet connection but I was able to play the disc and acquire a license on my office computer. Is there any way to transfer the license from one computer to another or must I have an internet connection.

Thanks,
Rick

Hi Rick, the licenses are bound to a machine and not to a network or persona, therefore there is no way to get the license to your second machine without that machine being connected to the Internet.

Thanks for this feedback, we will look at supporting this type of scenario in future version of our products.

Thanks
John
Microsoft

I just saw the trailer.. damn i can't wait to recieve mine should be coming any time. Now I have my own HTPC :D Wow does it rock or what, plus my CRT is frickin wonderful lol. Toshiba 34HDX82 after ISF tech tweaking it is BEATIFUL! Of course if the signal or source material is nice and DAMN all the HD stuff and DVDs with windvd are BEATIFUL

One question though I use zoomplayer, windvd and mplayer classic (not microsoft) i HATE windows media player... I am wondering anyone got them to work with the others. I usually use windvd for all my video content including HD.. Oh and the 816p clip runs beatifully no skipping or stuttering or anything like that.

Originally posted by jpaddle
Hi Rick, the licenses are bound to a machine and not to a network or persona, therefore there is no way to get the license to your second machine without that machine being connected to the Internet.


I kinda figured that. Thank you for the reply,

Rick

Just a comment - when playing back on my system with an 800mHz bus, I don't see much memory usage at all (though I have a GB installed). How about those with a 400mHz bus?

bit off topic but has anyone tried playing the fusion hdtv demos in wm9? They are tp transport files play perfectly in Fusion HDTV player with a P4 1.8 laptop, in WM9 they are stuttery and jerky.. Must be the codecs I guess.. or the files are optimised for the Fusion player..

It plays with windvd too ;) I love using windvd over zoomplayer and mplayer classic, etc.. etc.. ;) I like the display controls in windvd... I don't use ffdshow (i hate the artificial 'detail' its just an illusion :/ I just enable all hardware options for decoding and thats it its great to me).

Lee,
Memory latencies are in the order of nano seconds, so it will not be possible to see the transients of memory usage due to queuing delays caused by bus bandwidth limitations. What I am saying is that there will not be an observable difference between a 400Mhz FSB and 800Mhz FSB in terms of memory usage. The address footprint of the application is still the same. You may see a difference in CPU utilization. How much of your memory is being used on an average ? What is your CPU utilization ?
-Jai

I can run the T2 WMP9 on my Windows 2000 box, Asus A7N266-C MB, 256 MB RAM, and an Athlon XP 2400+ CPU (not overclocked). It plays stutter-free with a CPU utilization in the low 90's, but it doesn't appear to ever reach 100%.

By the way, I'm using nForce audio to convert the WM9 to DD. I haven't done a lot of comparing yet, but it doesn't seem to sound as good as the DVD version.

Frank- Your Samsung is a 16x10 ratio display, with a native max display mode of 1920x1200 pixels. When you view any 16x9 content, does it look correct, meaning slightly letterboxed? What do the demo clips on our site look like - have you tried playing the 816 version of the T2 trailer back?
T2 is stretched by Windows Media Player 9 Series at render time to 1920x816 pixels (it's an anamorphic 4:3 horizontal stretch), to an aspect ratio of 2.35:1. It should appear letterboxed on your display, with taller black bars than 16x9 material.

Some other comments: System RAM does not make that much of an impact for HD WMV playback ability. A machine with 256MB, 512MB and 1GB would probably perform identically. Front side bus speed increases do tend to help, though it's somewhat hard to say since they are often tied to CPU speed increases. Some of our newer 800MhZ FSB machines really fly, and are able to render more and more 1920x1080p material.

I didn't know that WinDVD would be able to play these files. I'll have to check that out!

-Dan

Karnis, I actually created a playlist with all 4 .wmv files and then played the playlist. It works, but I get a bordered picture on all four sizes with my PJ.

Jai,

My CPU Utilization (3Ghz P4 with HT enabled) while playing back from the DVD in WMP is ~30-35%.

Base memory utilized (before starting playback) is ~226MB (835MB Available). After playback starts, it holds pretty even at 776MB available, so 285MB used.

Just to clarify - T2 runs fine on my system. Just wanted to post my #'s to help with the benchmarking.

Karnis,

I used WinDVD Platinum 4.5 DXVA under Windows XP+SP1+DX9a, ATI Radeon 9700 Pro with Cat. 3.4 drivers, M-Audio 410 card (no issues). In WinDVD, I check both the hardware acceleration boxes and played the files from hard drives by using a playlist of the .wmv files.

My HDTV locks onto the picture as a 1080i picture and it looks high-def.

My suggestion: Try to acquire the license first with WMP9. Then, try to play the playlist (or .wmv) files. WinDVD does not re-request the license.

Originally posted by jpaddle
Hi Rick, the licenses are bound to a machine and not to a network or persona, therefore there is no way to get the license to your second machine without that machine being connected to the Internet.

Thanks for this feedback, we will look at supporting this type of scenario in future version of our products.

Thanks
John
Microsoft

To jpaddle and rf22. I have a laptop and a PC, my pc was giving me huge problems trying to aquire the license. So I got the license on my laptop. I used the option to back up my licenses. Which saves to a folder, by default, into a subfolder in My Music in My Documents. I had copied that folder to my pc, and chose to "restore" the license from that folder, and it grabbed the license and I was able to then play it on my pc.

So for me, from what I can see, I was able to get the license on my second machine (both of my machines are connected to the net, so I don't know if there was a transfer of info over the net that was done behind the scenes). I don't know if this is equivalent to getting the license without the net or not. Someone could test it out if possible.

Can someone help me set the filters in zoomplayer to play T2 ? This is my first shot at zoomplayer, and I can surely use your help.
Thanks in advance,
-Jai

Well, I have been fortunate enough to get this playing relatively easy in both the interactual player and windows media. My probem is I cannot get stutter free playback. I am using a 2.4 with 1 meg fo ram, saphire 9000 with 128 mb, fresh instal of win XP and nothing running in the background. I am spiking at 100% almost all the time. I have seen others here running glitch free with a similar system but using 85% CPU...any ideas guys?

I only have the demo at the moment, I'm running an nforce1 system with 512mb DDR, Sapphire 9000 64mb, Athlon 2200XP+, using s/pdif connection to my Denon 3802. Works fine, and totally stutter free, and plays in both Zoomplayer and WMP9, although i can't seem to get 5.1 to work in Zoom.

Got the DVD from Amazon today.

Copied the files as specified in this thread. Ran dvdrun.exe as specified. Launched in WMP. Clicked Agree. Everything worked.

Now I only watched about 10 minutes of both the HD and the DVD (the latest nvDVD). All I can say is that the screen shots do not do it justice. While I cannot compare it with any other HD movies as I don't have HBO-HD, etc. I can say that the A/B test with DVD versus WM9 was stunning.

My display is a Dwin Transvision 3 projector (native 1280X720) fed by DVI from a GeForce FX5200 (for both DVD and WM9 versions) on a 92" Stewart Firehawk screen. At that size, you can really see how much lower res the DVD is.

The only drawback that hurt me is that I would have liked to play it using the Media Center UI so I could use my remote, but that doesn't seem to work. Go figure.

I never installed the Interactual player so I didn't feel the pain of the masses, that's for sure. Let's hope the MS guys fix that for the next DVD.

What would be great is to see consumer electronics DVD players that support this format (of course, you can't require that these are connected to the net; that would mean a change in the licensing model!) so that we can get a greater critical mass of players out there to drive demand for the titles.

I can't wait for the next round. There is no doubt that I will be buying just about any half-way decent movie that comes out in WM9HD.

Zoom Player cannot at this time handle DRM encrypted files...

The only DRM equipped players I know of are WMP (and AI using the WMP enine) and J Rivers Media Centre (though at horrific frame rates)...

Originally posted by Paul_Seng
Karnis, I actually created a playlist with all 4 .wmv files and then played the playlist. It works, but I get a bordered picture on all four sizes with my PJ.

Got it, thanks, I had to move to WinDVD Recorder.

Paul, you can fill the screen by opening the sub menu on the WinDVD player (button on theright of the player), select "display" and set widescreen mode to "widescreen". You have to do this with the player in fullscreen mode.

Originally posted by FDM80
To jpaddle and rf22. I have a laptop and a PC, my pc was giving me huge problems trying to aquire the license. So I got the license on my laptop. I used the option to back up my licenses. Which saves to a folder, by default, into a subfolder in My Music in My Documents. I had copied that folder to my pc, and chose to "restore" the license from that folder, and it grabbed the license and I was able to then play it on my pc.

So for me, from what I can see, I was able to get the license on my second machine (both of my machines are connected to the net, so I don't know if there was a transfer of info over the net that was done behind the scenes). I don't know if this is equivalent to getting the license without the net or not. Someone could test it out if possible.


Back-up / Restore is a license right that allows you to back-up your licenses in case your machine crashes or if you want to move content from one machine to another.

FDM80 - this is a great way to move the license from your laptop to your PC as you indicated above. However, the PC in the scenario above will need to be connected to the internet to "restore" the license(s). The backend restore service will only let you back your license up on 3 additional PC's in addition to the original PC.

John
Microsoft

Originally posted by jpaddle
Back-up / Restore is a license right that allows you to back-up your licenses in case your machine crashes or if you want to move content from one machine to another.

FDM80 - this is a great way to move the license from your laptop to your PC as you indicated above. However, the PC in the scenario above will need to be connected to the internet to "restore" the license(s). The backend restore service will only let you back your license up on 3 additional PC's in addition to the original PC.

John
Microsoft

John,

What effects do System Bus and Ram size have on playback? The T2 disk mentions the need for a 3.0GHz machine, but some with less have been playing it with no problems. Would a 2.6GGHz with an 800MHz bus have an easier time with it than a 2.6 with a 400Mhz bus?

[

Paul, you can fill the screen by opening the sub menu on the WinDVD player (button on theright of the player), select "display" and set widescreen mode to "widescreen". You have to do this with the player in fullscreen mode. [/B]

Karnis, I tried that but it is greyed out. I have the player already in fullscreen mode and when I goto the menu widescreen mode is greyed out. Maybe I'm doing something here.

Thanks

Folks,
Please clarify if Zoomplayer can indeed playback T2 HD. I am hearing confilicting reports (unless I misunderstood) that zoomplayer cannot play DRM encrypted files (T2 HD is DRM encrypted right ?) whereas others have reported that they are able to playback T2 in HD. What am I missing here ?
For those of you who have had success with Zoomplayer, please post your success story and a brief description of how you achieved it. Here is my status

* No success with Interactual. It is complaining about the sound card. My sound card is an RME Digi96/PAD. I think it could be some problem with interactual trying to work with the RME driver.

* Partial success with Windows media player 9 (WMP9). I can get full screen, non-choppy video but crackling audio. "Thorr" here thinks that it maybe a problem with WMP9 that uses direct sound by default (and it cannot be changed) and RME driver has a classic problem with direct sound. I am not sure if this is what is happening, but that is the most likely explanation.

* No success with Zoomplayer. It says that it cannot create filter. I tried some of the manual filter settings but I am not sure if I am doing the right thing. At this time Zoomplayer seems like the most likely candidate that can help me get it to work.

I'd appreciate if someone can help me out with Zoomplayer filter settings before I move on and try WinDVD.
Thanks,
-Jai

Alright, I don't have T2 Extereme yet but I tried the 816p trailer. I tried it as follows:

I tried it in windows mediaplayer and I wasn't too satisfied (the mediaplayer 9 is not to my taste first of all, and it has extra filters somewhere here and there and adjusting colour and other settings is just tiresome in some strange way). I then tried mediaplayer classic 6.x something (no not the micorsoft one.. but the one thats mimicing the 6.4 player but with a hell of a lot more options kind of like zoomplayer). It worked flawlessly not a single hitch, skip, jump or stutter. I wasn't satisfied with the colours and there was no way for me to tweak/tune it within that player. Then I tried WinDVD 4.5.. whatever the currently latest version is. I used the same colour, contrast, etc.. settings I use for DVDs.. WOW! The picture was better then anything I've seen in my life. I love my tv, I would sell a plasma and buy two or three of these TVs best value/money/quality of any TV out there (Toshiba 34HDX82). I recommend this TV to everyone and AND windvd :) Now.. this was just the 816p clip.. but I have one issue.. although I still dont have the disc.. I think I will dislike the whole protection scheeme.. I just hope there is some magical way to confirm definetely that I will be using it myself and no one else and not have to have the internet or anything of that sort on my HTPC.. I dislike these crazy protection schemes :/ They get cracked eventually and thats not what I intend.. I just dont want hassles with what I buy :/ Otherwise besides the protection I think I wouldn't mind microsoft gaining the upper hand in the next gen audio/video, including this HD-DVD perhaps. I am very satisfied with theimage quality.. absolutely satisfied and am in support of microsoft's gain on WMV9. Plus with real HD content with HD cameras.. this will be absolutely stunning!

Mntneer

Our test have mainly shown that CPU speed, graphics card and DVD Drive speed are the main components which affect the playback. We did test some configurations with less RAM and slower bus and we didn't see any major differences, I will see if one of our testers can repro this and report back to the thread.

John
Microsoft

Originally posted by jpaddle
Mntneer

Our test have mainly shown that CPU speed, graphics card and DVD Drive speed are the main components which affect the playback. We did test some configurations with less RAM and slower bus and we didn't see any major differences, I will see if one of our testers can repro this and report back to the thread.

John
Microsoft

Thanks. It would be interesting to know. With the cost differences in processors at different bus speeds, at least we could eliminate the need for the higher bus, and just spend the money on the faster chip.

Hi,

I just received my T2 that I pre-ordered from Amazon today.
Followed the instructions by peder(THANKS), and did not install interactual player. I got the license with no problem and proceeded to open Windows Media 9 and it happily plays the files perfectly.
I really appreciate all the help here on what NOT to do.

My cpu usage shows 85-90% on my Athlon XP 2600+, Windows XP Pro, ATI Radeon 9000 64Meg, and 768MB Ram.

jammarjim

Originally posted by Paul_Seng
Karnis, I tried that but it is greyed out. I have the player already in fullscreen mode and when I goto the menu widescreen mode is greyed out. Maybe I'm doing something here.

Thanks

Not in the menu, use the little switch on the right side of the control panel player to bring up the sub menu, then click "display".

Bummed... My system is too slow to play the HD T2 movie... I just got the amazon shipment yesterday and played it on my 2ghz machine at work and it played fine.. super hi-res.

I looked forward to viewing it at home with my X1 projector, but after about 3 secs, it starts to skip and pause seconds at a time.

My system is the following:

AMD 1700+ (1.4ghz) w/ 1GB (PC133 DIMMS)
MSI K7T Turbo Raid Motherboard
Radeon 9000 Pro


Any ideas??? What do I need to upgrade or do to get it to run smoothly??

scotty144 - Did you mean 1 GB of RAM? I think your system is a bit too underpowered to play T2 back. Any chance you can borrow a new ATI or NVIDIA card to test on your system? This might get you there.

Squidward - Your system is further off than scotty's. You need a newer CPU most likely - can your mobo handle an Athlon XP 2600? And you probably need a new graphics card too.

A word on Zoomplayer
Zoomplayer can NOT play back protected WMV content currently, as Phat Phreddy has indicated. We'll work with them to fix this. (It will report back with a FILTER error.)

Thanks,
-Dan

Originally posted by jammarjim
Hi,

I just received my T2 that I pre-ordered from Amazon today.
Followed the instructions by peder(THANKS), and did not install interactual player. I got the license with no problem and proceeded to open Windows Media 9 and it happily plays the files perfectly.
I really appreciate all the help here on what NOT to do.

My cpu usage shows 85-90% on my Athlon XP 2600+, Windows XP Pro, ATI Radeon 9000 64Meg, and 768MB Ram.

jammarjim

I'm planning on upgrading to a 2600+ in the next 2 weeks or so. I would just like to know if your chip is the 133/266 mhz bus version (Code Name: thoroughbred B) or the 166/333 mhz bus version (Code Name: Barton). Thanks

It looks like most of you are moving off license issues and are now into playback ability questions. This is good to see.

If anyone is still stuck trying to get a license, please try the workaround posted by me earlier in this thread. If you still are stuck, PM me and I'll get you going.

-Dan

Alright. I've seen hell.

The IA player won't play due to some imagined sound card conflict.

Finally got it going in WMP9. License acquired. Plays.

No center channel audio (SPDIF only to my amp). Can't figure it out. Looked through this whole thread.

Someone, save my soul. Not that the dialog is all that important, but this is one maddening adventure.

_ITV

I have a nForce2 mobo with on-board soundcard(disabled), and
a Leadtek winfast 4xsound card with spdif out. is it possible to have
2 soundcards in a comp. at the same time?

Thanks,

Nich

Originally posted by interactiveTV
No center channel audio (SPDIF only to my amp). Can't figure it out. Looked through this whole thread.
_ITV

You need to set your speaker configuration in the Windows control panel>>>sounds to "2 speakers" so WMP9 downmixes the WMA 5.1 audio track to stereo.

I just DL'ed the T2 clip. I'm sorry to say that I wasn't blown away by the
quality. Maybe it was due to the lousy battle scene of choice, but still....
And I haven't HD besides the other WM9 clips, like coral reef and
step into liquid.

Nich

Nich:
Yes, you can have more than one sound card in a PC. I used to have a SB Live for gaming along with my DeltaDio 24/96 card for DVD, music, etc.

Currently I have the DeltaDio for playback and I use the onboard audio line-input of my Intel mobo for recording analog TV for MyHD.

Ok, now that it is confirmed that zoomplayer is not going to work, I need to get interactual working right. I have this same problem like interactiveTV with a sound card problem.

Interactual player 2.0 error.
"Playback failed due to an error with the audio subsystem. Please ensure the sound card is properly installed or close any applications that may use the sound card. "


Anyone encounter this error with Interactual ? And how did you fix it ?
Thanks,
-Jai

I had the same error last night, and after fooling with this disk for a couple of hours, I shut off the PC in disgust! Upon a fresh reboot today, the error has not appeared again.
I am amazed at the degree of difficulty encompassed in this WMV encoding. If I were to ask my other half to "set up the movie", it would be no show tonight, and she is knowledgable enough to play an .iso using Daemon. I agree with everyone that the IA player S**KS, and I hope this format becomes more user friendly down the road, or MS is justa wastin their time.

My.02
Mark

Mark,
Since this audio problem seems to be a spurious problem, it would be great if we can nail it. Before you shut off your PC in disgust, do you remember doing something that may have caused the fix ? I tried reboots with no luck. What sound card do you have and what are the sound card settings ?
Amir and John (Microsoft),
Can you please help me here ?
Thanks,
-Jai

I had the same error and never could get the POS IA player to work. I used the workaround to get the license and dumped the POS IA player.

The error has nothing to do with your sound card, nothing is wrong with it, and no amount of fiddling with your sound card will make it work. Been there, done that, take my advice, save the precious minutes of your lifespan and don't bother.

WinDVD Recorder plays back T2 HD much better than WMP9 does on my P4 2GHz machine...not perfect, I get some stutters and pauses, but it does give me hope an upgrade to a 2.4 or 2.6 will give me much improved performance.

Jai- You should try WinDVD Recorder or 4.5 or whatever everyone says works. I think you can download a trial version. I know you can set WinDVD to WAVE-OUT so this might be the ticket! Good luck!

i was in best buy today on pass from hospital, and was talking to a acquittance there, and I guess they have had several complaints over the9 t2 wm9 dvd not working.

what a joke this release is; if I were a cynical person I would say the studio is attempting to kill the concept of hd on dvd, by release basically an unusable product even for the above average computer user.

I think that playback resolution and whether you are using the overlay or VMR9 affect playback performance. My Radeon 7200 would stutter using VMR9 above 480p. With the overlay, I'm able to playback most of clips fine at 1080i. My P4-2.66 is pegged at 100% though. The VMR9 thing could just be an issue with the older Radeons. I don't think they fully supported dx9. I'm content with the occasional dropped frames at 1080i, and look forward to upgrading my video card once the new cards with WMV hardware assisted decompression come out.

Karnis is right about the sound card not being an issue, I was changing settings trying to get the 5.1 to play thru my Delta 410. "...Motown played perfectly after I figured the analog-out set up on this card, and I think all is well if I use WMP9 and not IA.
I tried to use PDVD and NVDVD, but I guess the DRM encryption won't let the files play. What makes WDVD so special? Just curious.

Mark

I would have to say that I am impressed with what I could see and especially hear. I've got 600MHz processors in my box so the video is not fluid. I think it would be if Microsoft would release a multithread decoder, (I’m not afraid of testing, HINT HINT) That and the slow bus speed stop the movie from playing that great for me. I played the movie from disc 1 via Optical to DD receiver and IMO the sound "presence" was better from disc2 via the 6 analog outputs from the Audigy card. The "Bad to the Bone" chapter with the bike sounded much better.

Side note after a while the center channel from PC died mid way through movie. Though from Creative’s surround mixer test it is still there, but WMP9 is not using it now. I’ve double check the speaker settings in the mixer and in XP’s speaker properties window. After rebooting the computer, a few times the sound is still working correctly. Maybe someone knows how to correct this already.

PC basics are: Asus P2B-DS, Dual 600MHz 512k P3s, 1GB PC-100, ATI Radeon 8500128MB, Creative Audigy Platinum.

Software basics are: XP pro, PowerDVD 4.0, ATI’s software

Hello.

I've been reading the forums and using the workarounds but with all the info posted I still cannot get a license for watching T2-Extreme.

Just to check, I disabled my network cards and ran DVDRUN.EXE to see if it would complain about the lack of an internet connection--it didn't. I installed ZoneAlarm to see what programs wanted net access--DVDRUN.EXE never asked for access.

I have tried this on my laptop and disabled the network connection and DVDRUN.EXE did complain about the lack of a network card.

I've installed, reinstalled the InterActual player with no luck.

Everytime I try to play the movie it always tells me that I need to insert my original DVD into the drive.

Help! What is wrong with my system?:confused:

Thanks for any help.

Yeeker

Yeeker,
So you ran dvdrun.exe with no problem, then at what point do you run into trouble? If you are following the workaround posted by the MSFT guy then you do not even need to install the interactual player.

hgodwin

Originally posted by jmcomp124
Since this audio problem seems to be a spurious problem, it would be great if we can nail it. Before you shut off your PC in disgust, do you remember doing something that may have caused the fix ? I tried reboots with no luck. What sound card do you have and what are the sound card settings ?


FWIW I got the IA audio subsytem error at one point, and fixed it by going into the Audio properties in Control Panel, and changing the hardware acceleration settings (I can't remember if I disabled it completely, or just reduced it a notch.) It fixed the problem anyway, though it wasn't a perfect solution. (I ended up stuck on a different problem with the IA player, and got the licence with WMP9 in the end.)

Originally posted by hgodwin
Yeeker,
So you ran dvdrun.exe with no problem, then at what point do you run into trouble? If you are following the workaround posted by the MSFT guy then you do not even need to install the interactual player.

hgodwin

When I play the media it keeps telling me that I have to insert the DVD into the DVD-ROM drive even though I've never taken it out.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Karnis
I had the same error and never could get the POS IA player to work. I used the workaround to get the license and dumped the POS IA player.

The error has nothing to do with your sound card, nothing is wrong with it, and no amount of fiddling with your sound card will make it work. Been there, done that, take my advice, save the precious minutes of your lifespan and don't bother.
Agree completely. Too bad I lost those precious minutes!

2 channel audio (only SPDIF out for me) is very disappointing. PQ is good but with all the hassles, the 2 channel audio, and the terrible license issues, this is just way too alpha for me. I'll wait for HD-DVD before going through this again.

_ITV

yeeker,
were you click on the individual wmv files and acquire the license?

After spending quite some time reading through this topic, I couldn't resist to try it out my self (hmm, a normal sane person would probably stay away from it after all reported problems). Well I think I manage to reproduce more or less all problems described here! After an hour of struggling I manage to get it up and running though.

The biggest problem was to find a proxy that actually worked. After testing at least 20, one seemed to work (at least it didn't complain about being an anonymous or non U.S. proxy). But when I was suppose to click on the "Agree" button nothing happened. After a good old reboot I could press the button even if the square above it was blank (which means I didn't really know what I agreed on).

Then the lovely IA (nooot) gave the CSS error when the disc was in my Sony DRU500 drive (I might have gotten this problem before the "agree" problem). I tried it in my other LG drive and everything worked fine. Both drives are RPC2 and set on R1. One difference is that the LG drive is locked on R1 but the Sony is still not locked (don't know if there is any relation to the CSS problem).

I got picture and sound, but on my P4 2GHz (Asus P4T533-C, Radeon 8500 Deluxe (64Mb 250MHz), 512Mb RAM (RDRAM), 8xDVD-ROM) machine, I occasionally got some stutters and sound dropouts. So time for some over-clocking. I boosted up the CPU to 2.4 GHz and the 8500 card to 275MHz. Now suddenly the IA complained about my sound card (I've done gaming on this setup before without any sound problem) and refused to play! Brought down the CPU to 2.16GHz and the movie played fine. Still stutter but slightly better.

With the same setting I thought of trying to copy the film to the HD. Now running the movie direct from the HD with WMP9 everything worked flawless without any stutter at all! I guess my 8xDVD was not fast enough.

So far I have just watch it on LCD flat panel so I wait with a picture/sound review till I have hooked up the PC to my projector (normally not using it as HTPC).

Its interesting if you read the system requirementsa on the back of the T2 metal case:

Win XP Pro, 512 RAM, 3gig processor!!

It played fine with no stuttering on my 2.3 gig P4 using WMP9 with 256 RAM. The PQ was not as good as the 720p stream of the IMAX Coral Reef I downloaded from MS.

I found it interesting that the DVD covers flying around and the logos (not part of the movie) looked quite good :) Very sharp and detailed hehe, hopefuly there will be some more stuff done with HD cameras not FILM encoded with wmv9. WMV9 looks very promising like I said I wouldn't mind MS getting the upper hand in HD-DVD if this is the way it goes. The only thing I'm disapointed about is all the securiy and copy protection crap :rolleyes: It just is hassle for whoever buys it. Kind of funny.. I think the only true reason why we don't have an HD-DVD standard is due to all the copy protection and security that is needed with DVD's security long destroyed. It's almost an endless chase since like everything else give it little time and it's hacked or cracked.

Originally posted by hgodwin
yeeker,
were you click on the individual wmv files and acquire the license?

Hi hgodwin,

When I go through WMP9 and click on the individual *.ASX and *.WMV files I get the same pop-up box that comes up telling me to insert the DVD into the DVD-ROM drive and to start "install.exe" Even with the network disconnected it pop-ups some box and I know it's trying to tell me that the DVD isn't in the drive :( Goind through the Interactual software also gives me the same pop-up box.

Thanks for your help!

Well I just got mine and I have began the little adventure, my goal is using windvd, I don't like the other players

When I played the disc in the drive it was slightly stuttery, but when I copied the files to my harddrive the files played smoothly. Maybe there is some setting on my dvd drive I need to select?

I didn't find the picture quality particulary impressive on my monitor at 1920x1080. However I also wasn't overly impressed with most of the coral reef scenes under the water as they appeared to be a bit grainy. I will try it out on the projector later to see how it looks (just a lowly barco data 800 at 1024x576).

I decided to give T2 Extreme a try expecting a ton of problems. I picked one up at Best Buy today and just stuck it in the computer when I got home to see what would happen. I followed the instructions that came up and the disc was playing fine within five minutes. The only problem I found was when I try to skip chapters it takes between 10 and 20 seconds to change. Otherwise the picture was impressive to me anyway. A big hassle though compared to a regular DVD player.

Well I just watched it in windvd, great stuff. All I did was get the license by loading up interwhatever player that comes with the dvd, clicked on HD in menu and said continue and then i get the license screen voila. I get it i close the interwhatever player and i go into windvd.

I think it was great (you know I had the regular VHS tape of this ;)) Compared to any DVD i've seen no questions asked its waay better. Compared to some HD stuff I've seen definetely. Now the thing is, this is film and that's the problem. If the movie was recorded with an HD camera it would be a dif story :) Once we get movies recorded with HD cameras and stored digitally not on film.. we'll be talking :) None the less I think this was great. Go microsft, monopoly or not hah.. this i think is a great candidate for HD-DVD :P

I think we may have a winner if the license issue and ease of playback becomes much easier. Luckily this was only the second release of a movie with the wmv files on it. If the process becomes automatic and more movies are available then we might have something.

I can't believe so many people are having trouble making it play. I installed the IA players and it worked fine. I then downloaded the T2 files to my HD.

Now only if my computer was faster enough to play it at full frame rate.

"this i think is a great candidate for HD-DVD"

I totally disagree. Having seen a lot of HD movie transfers, on HBO-HD, Showtime HD, HDnet and OTA, IMHO I'm not a proponent of low bit rate HD as the consumer standard, based on what I've seen so far from the MS demos, & I've seen them all. In fact in some places the T2 DVD shows a little bit more detail than the WMP version.
I think it is a cool technology statement on what can be done at low bit rates, and fills a stop-gap need, but as far as HD-DVD is concerned, anything less than the quality seen before should be considered unacceptable. Not to mention trying to shove yet another audio format down the consumers throats....and the annoying licensing issues.
Just my 2 cents.

I totally agree. A friend who is also a very picky videophile viewed both pictures along with me where we demoed the DVD vs the WMP versions. We both concluded that their was minimal difference at best. He said the WOW factor wasn't there. Not like HDTV where he said the high contrast/high res is totally visible hence the WOW in HDTV and the reasoning why he bought one. I like to test new technology to see what is out there. He said with the ungodly requirements in pc power, and licensing issues would definitely make this disc a must not buy for what you get in return. But since you get a copy of the DVD that is excellent quality in the video department as well as DD in the audio that this was a nice upgrade. He said he would use the WMP edition disc as a beverage coaster for his coffee table.Originally posted by AaronNWilson
I didn't find the picture quality particularly impressive on my monitor at 1920x1080. However I also wasn't overly impressed with most of the coral reef scenes under the water as they appeared to be a bit grainy. I will try it out on the projector later to see how it looks (just a lowly barco data 800 at 1024x576).

Well higher bitrate stuff can be done im sure, I don't think wmv9 has any bitrate limit :rolleyes: The only issue in my opinion is the anoying 'security'. This licensing thing is crap even more so then wxp crap... I ibouhgt 4 XP retail... plz enough with the activation ******** (scuse me).

We need more stuff that's been done with HD cameras not just film transfers. Rendered movies like Ice Age and Shrek perhaps? Remember this is still on a regular DVD not some new DVD format in other words plenty of space to fill up with higher bitrates perhaps even higher res. I am a man who seeks quality so I am firmly strong on what should be a standard as the best that there is.. and sure wmv9 isn't like some stuff ive seen (.tp, .ts from satelite) but hmm.. hey microsoft guys on here encode some higher bitrate stuff The coral reef was neat closest to some of the .tp, .ts stuff ive seen. The wmv9 samples have only been getting better. Like the liquid video i thaught from the start hey wait a second this is NOT HD material.. but hey it runs great on a low spec machine and ya the samples have only gotten better!

Anyways you are right for sure, but lets not scratch out the fact that something at a higher bitrate can be acomplished. Sure higher system specs but heck. Hmm gotta hate standards Would be nice if we could all just wish we had a standard and poof it happened :D

When I first saw the WMV9 version I was blown away certiain scenes are undeniably BETTER and its a totally different ball game, like totally HD comparable to the stuff i got from satellite. but yes many scenes look just like DVD.. Before I even got the extereme dvd i asked exactly that when looking at the screenshots that some posted.. I mean I think in one of them it was stated "guess which one is the HD version" We shouldn['t need to even stop and think at which one is which it should be differnt worlds Like I said you're right but lets not scratch out higher bitrate content so microsoft guys enlighten us I certainly would love to see shrek and ice age at 816p with wmv9 kinda funny .. some stuff in shrek and ice age looked sharp like the wmv9 stuff :rolleyes: lol now im getting all critical of the wmv9 version

ya well i guess we'll just have to find out if we get higher bitrate content. I must acknowledge that it fit on a DVD not some new medium. Mpeg2 vs mpeg4 argument i guess. One bit that disapointed me on the side.. was that it was only the teathrical version :( I was hoping for the special edition.. ah well. I also thought it would be full 16:9 screen no letterbox.

I would like to see a film, any film, that has a newer hd transfer come out for both d-theatre and wm9(full disk, and vbr). With this kind of test we can then finally go beyond speculation, such as if the grain was an error on part of codec or just a a part of the source, etc.

turbo,
One thing about the dvd vs. hd comparison for T2, is that the DVD is basically reference quality and the hd is hindered by lack of full disk and use of CBR. Once video card decoding is available the processor requirements will no longer be an issue. I think the licensing issues are not strictly a WM9 issue; it will be interesting to see how copyright issues are handled by competing hd-dvd formats.

Originally posted by AaronNWilson
When I played the disc in the drive it was slightly stuttery, but when I copied the files to my harddrive the files played smoothly. Maybe there is some setting on my dvd drive I need to select?



Aaron, what's your specs? As I mention earlier, I had the same problem when using my 8xDVD-ROM. In a previous post, someone mention a recommended minimum of 16x. Reading direct from my HD, I had no stutter at all running at 2.16GHz.

"this i think is a great candidate for HD-DVD"

This is difficult to say at the moment I guess. We haven't seen the full potential of the format yet. I really hope the coming standard will be dump the requirement of an internet connection and time limited licensees. Also what is the limit on the audio side with wmv? I really hope that the HD-DVD standard have at least the sound quality of e.g. DTS 24/96. Why settle for something less when from a technical point of view it's not a problem.

Assume they can somehow fix the silly licensing issues.

I still have never seen a telecined Hollywood film that comes close to the detail level of some HDTV live video. I've never seen D-Theater, so maybe it's possible there, but I'm starting to think that under current telecine practices there may not be that much more detail to be had from most of our current movies. For instance, I've never seen any broadcast HDTV that seemed to have any significant horizontal detail over 1440 pixels.

If that is really correct then WM9 (or even MPEG-4) can probably handle all there is using only a single DVD-9, maybe another for extras.

- Tom

Snip
>
>Assume they can somehow fix the silly licensing issues.

Silly, I'd say MAJOR ISSUE? This may be the straw that broke their back if they can't make this easier and have it work the first time. I can't believe the trouble I had with T2, frankly if it were not for someone posting a clue here I may have never got it to play, and I'm in the USA.

If the normal guy (read NOT a gammer / computer expert) can't get it to play quickly, do you think he would buy any other disc's which try to show case this technology? I think not. Easter eggs are not "my" cup of tea, this was about as bad, trying to get it to work. Well come to thing of it, kinda like the last T2 release, getting the extended version to play :-), could be I missed the point?

Standing in the shadows was not all that bad, but not easy either, likewise the MS sample DVD, I got it to work quickly, but a friend still has had no joy. Is there a FAQ or something on the MS web page (or other place) that would clear this up, or, have they (MS) even figured out there IS a issue?

Take care, in the mean time I will await the "5th day", something to do, until the 1st of July........ gets here.

Take care, in the mean time I will await the "5th day", something to do, until the 1st of July........ gets here.

Huh? Did I miss something? Is there another one of these coming out? Cool.

- Tom

Probably a reference to T3, which comes out on the July 2nd.

Na... you did not miss anything, the T2 license quits after 5 days then you get to do all this over again, more or less? Actually after these, I don't think I need to see any more, read not interested if there is this much trouble, to view a movie. Even D VHS is easier than this!

Tom, one thing about HDVid...have you seen Robbery Homicide Division on CBS before it was canceled? What do you think of the quality compared to the a-list vid quality of the film shows?

Darius
edit: oops, thought you were talking about all filmed content, not just movies...

Yeeker

Have you been able to get a license yet? One thing you have to have in order to get a license is online access. If you are offline the system will not be able to give you a license.

What happens when you try to play the movie while you are online?

edavidson

Originally posted by mikey p
Snip

Standing in the shadows was not all that bad, but not easy either, likewise the MS sample DVD, I got it to work quickly, but a friend still has had no joy. Is there a FAQ or something on the MS web page (or other place) that would clear this up, or, have they (MS) even figured out there IS a issue?


Mickey P;

SyncCast has several FAQ pages for both Shadows of Motown and Terminator 2: Extreme DVD:

Shadows of Motown FAQ (http://www.synccast.com/som/)

Terminator 2: Extreme DVD FAQ (http://www.synccast.com/t2/)

InterActual also has a FAQ for Terminator 2: Extreme DVD: InterActual FAQ for Terminator 2: Extreme DVD (http://player.interactual.com/help/support/articles/0134.asp)

Microsoft has a brief FAQ at:Microsoft FAQ (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/t2dvd.aspx)

Please explain what problems your friend is having or had with the SOM disc and I'll see if we can help.

-Ezra

Just to bring it up to the top, you can get a license without using the POS IA player at all.
1) Connect to the Internet
2) Put disc #2 in the DVD tray, using Windows Explorer, navigate to the root directory of disc #2 and double click on dvdrun.exe (you won't see anything happen, it runs transparent)
3) Open WMP9 and open T2_Part 1.wmp (or chapter 0.asx, either works)
4) WMP9 should acquire the license and start playback.

I tested this just now to renew the license & it works fine.

"ah well. I also thought it would be full 16:9 screen no letterbox."

Gigatron, that would have meant they panned and scanned it to fit the 16 by 9 frame. Panning and scanning is for videotape, not dvd, and certainly not HD material. From what I heard, HBO is in the habit of cutting the sides off 2.35 to 1 films so they fit in the 16 by 9 frame without letterboxing; a majority of us here think that's wrong.

Walt

I don't know if I phrased this right. What I meant was imagine the following:
_____________
| |
| |
| |
---------------------

Imagine the above is a 16:9 TV set.

__________
| |
| |
| |
----------------

Imagine the above is a 4:3 TV set

Now, forget about the 4:3 TV set.

_____________
|-------------------|
| |
|____________|
|-------------------|

Now imagine the thin lines are the black bars, the letterbox or whatever you wana call it on a 16:9 TV. That's how all this is. I have a few DVD's that have a certain aspect ratio that are almost full screen widescreen no bars (NO stretching I mean real). something like 1.85:1 aspect ratio I think or something like that. I have this Ice age and National security like that and when i select widescreen thats exactly what i get a real 16:9 full screen. No bars, no stretching none of that crazyiness. That's what I'm implying. Why waste the space with the black bars! That's what I was implying. Yes it means extra lines, extra resolution and that means more disk/disc space, more processing power because of more information but hell. I hate the wasted space on the screen it anoys me. Long ago I thaught on a 16:9 TV the black bars wouldnt exist.. yet they do o_O. So i thaught.. what the hell? I mean SURE its a hell lot less then a 4:3 tv, and if its a bigger 16:9 u get to actually see the picture not black bars heh.. but hey. Then I thought.. sure DVD is a limited format, and I thaught hmm that would require more powerful DVDs to process the extra resolution, extra information. I hope I explained what I mean. I just don't see the point for a next-gen system to be wasting that space for black bars o_O.

Another thing, i don't have a machine specifically for an HTPC yet (will have to get another computer) but when I do, is there a way to transfer the license to another computer? Where is it stored? Is it coded specifically to the machine's unqiuely generated ID of some sort? I don't want to have any networking services or any of that stuff on my future HTPC and I'd hate to have to download the license on that machine or have any internet whats so ever.

I think you're missing the point a bit here, if you cropped a 2.35:1 image to fit on a 16:9 screen, you'd miss parts of the film, much like if you cropped a 16:9 or 1.85:1 image to a 4:3 screen.

Without the black bars, you don't see the film as it was intended to be seen, and miss out on bits of the film that were at the end of the day, supposed to be there.

I'm pointing out next-gen movies should be made to fit the whole screen like that :/ It's a waste of space :rolleyes: I know what you mean ya.. but urhg.. its anoying yes more picture but.. oh well lol ;/ It's a strange thing :) But imagine the same movie widescreen but with more info on bottom. In other words film the movies zoomed out a bit here and there or something rather then zoomed up close so that sides are cut off.. i dunno im mumbling i plain and simple find the black bars a waste :/

> I'm pointing out next-gen movies should be made to fit the whole screen like that :/ It's a waste of space I know what you mean ya.. but urhg.. its anoying yes more picture but.. oh well lol

I agree. When given a choice between watching a movie OAR and non-OAR, I prefer OAR. If OAR isn't available, then of course I'd prefer an 'open-matte' transfer versus a 'pan-scan' (i.e. cropped.) Naturally, open-matte is rarely a simple issue, with many movies still requiring zoom/crop on many scenes.

While filmed movies will always offer the director a variety of aspect-ratios, I would sincerely hope that digitally-captured movies (either HD-video cameras or CGI) are standardized to a *single* aspect-ratio. Freedom and choice is totally at odds with the practical reality that digital (discrete-pixel) displays can't "reconfigure" themselves to a different aspect-ratio.

In my mind, it makes no engineering sense to use a digital-display or medium at it's non-native resolution. You can add black-bars or do funny things with special optical lenses (or even electronic resizing), but the fundamental imaging-mechanism is still basd on a fixed 2d-grid of dots. Forcing a different aspect-ratio out of digital-tech is like the "tail wagging the dog." It shouldn't be done, and if some directors are going to do it, well fine. But it better not become a standard practice.

....

Back to topic, I tried playing the WMV9 (of T2 Extreme Edition HD) in Windows Media Player 9. But my Celeron 2.2GHz (@ 2.6GHz) was far too slow. I was seeing 'seconds per frame' instead of 'frames per second.'..bad Celery, bad Celery!

Originally posted by Karnis
"this i think is a great candidate for HD-DVD"

I totally disagree. Having seen a lot of HD movie transfers, on HBO-HD, Showtime HD, HDnet and OTA, IMHO I'm not a proponent of low bit rate HD as the consumer standard, based on what I've seen so far from the MS demos, & I've seen them all. In fact in some places the T2 DVD shows a little bit more detail than the WMP version.
I think it is a cool technology statement on what can be done at low bit rates, and fills a stop-gap need, but as far as HD-DVD is concerned, anything less than the quality seen before should be considered unacceptable. Not to mention trying to shove yet another audio format down the consumers throats....and the annoying licensing issues.
Just my 2 cents.

It's not so much the bitrate, as it is the bitrate in regards to the specific codec.

I was always under the impression that WM9 was essentially based off of MPEG4, much like Divx is. Therefore I would think that a MPEG4 clip encoded at 9000kbps to 10000kbps, is going to produce a picture that is comparable to an MPEG2 at 19000kbps.

It may be that any future HD-DVD may want to look into going with another Encoding method other than MPEG2, so that more information can be stored on any future format, whether it be Blu-Ray or not.

I wasn't impressed though with the T2 WM9 movie, but I'm beginning to think that it's just a limitation of that particular film, and can't get a whole lot better. Imagine for example the deleted scene from Aliens where they discuss the remote sentries. If the source isn't up to par, then niether will the output.

Originally posted by edavidson
Yeeker

Have you been able to get a license yet? One thing you have to have in order to get a license is online access. If you are offline the system will not be able to give you a license.

What happens when you try to play the movie while you are online?

edavidson

I am on the internet and WMP9 just says that I have to insert my original DVD into my DVD-ROM drive.

I've given up... I'll just watch "Coral Reef" clip over and over again :cool:

Thanks for your help!

Yeeker

Originally posted by SeaneyC
I think you're missing the point a bit here, if you cropped a 2.35:1 image to fit on a 16:9 screen, you'd miss parts of the film, much like if you cropped a 16:9 or 1.85:1 image to a 4:3 screen.


Well, strictly speaking T2 is filmed in Super 35 rather than anamorphic scope, so if you were going to convert it to 16:9, you'd unmask part of the top and bottom (this is already done for some Super 35 films when shown on TV), so you wouldn't lose any picture.

Having said that, I'm certainly glad they didn't do that in this case, since the OAR version is always preferable IMHO. Also, the fact that WM9 (unlike MPEG2) can encode 2.35:1 material without having to partially encode the black bars as well, means that movies like this are much more suited to WM9. As a fan of 2.35:1 ("true" widescreen), it's nice that there's now a format that can treat the ratio properly, rather than having to compromise it by storing black bars as per DVD.

This probably puts me in a minority both on this thread and on this board, but I like the 2.35:1 aspect ratio, I like film, and I like all the different aspect ratios and types of film that can be used. The photography of a movie has a lot to do with its evocative power. Cameron's films are meant to be super widescreen. He composes his shots well in 2.35:1. And that AR is very nice for epic films and action blockbuster types. It's a more aggressive formatting that delivers a different field of vision. I'd be the first guy to get bored out of his mind if all movies were shot on HDCam in 1.78:1. It's just not appropriate for some movies. Imagine David Fincher's Seven or Fight Club filmed in 1080/24p at 1.78:1. It would probably not look anything like the movie should look in order to properly exude its character. If every movie suddenly looked like Attack of the Clones, I'd probably throw my HDTV out the window and just read books forever. The notion that we should hope that filmmakers all start shooting in 1.78:1 in HD so as to not "waste" space on our home displays is the same kind of silly thinking that justifies the panning and scanning (read: mutilation) of movies for home video. Movies aren't made to cater to our gorgeous display devices. Our gorgeous display devices are made to better cater to movies.

Originally posted by mark_la
The problem with the picture quality is 24 fps FILM. Die FILM Die!!!! I can't wait until HD Video is used instead of FILM to HD transfers. I realized how much I hated the film look from the first moment I saw how good HD Video looks like (like you see on Discovery HD, PBS HD, or HDNet).

With the awful film source, the untrained eye (average viewers outside of us in this forum) has a real hard time telling the difference between Gladiator HD on ABC 720p and my DVD. I know, because I've done blind tests with about 6 people, and half choose the Anamorphic DVD over the ABC 720p broadcast as the one with "better quality". There is no such confusion when it comes to HD Video vs DVD Video.

LMAO. Video doesn't compare to film. Any video. The "awful film source" is twice the resolution of 1080p.

Originally posted by The Belgain
There have been a few comments saying that this release is very nice, but not as good as it could be due to the fact that the source is film and that the telecline process is not perfect.

When do you think we can expect to see a film filmed entirely digitally released in HD (encoded directly from the digital source)?

Digital source??? You've gotta be kidding.

The only major movie ever shot on digital is Star Wars Episode II. Terminator 2 was released back in 1991.

That aside, film is superior to video. It has been for a long time and still is. 1920x1080 cannot capture the detail that 35mm film can. You would need at least 4000x2000 or so to do that.

Obviously telecine's can't be perfect, and something shot on an HD camera will look cleaner on home video than something transfered from film, but movies are made for theatrical presentation, not DVD's released 12 years later.

MrGonk, Dont worry your not alone....

In fact I am hopeful of creating a 2.35 screen for my next theater room so that the masterpieces filmed in scope are presented exactly as they should be... Filling a wider field of vision than a 16:9 or 1:1.85 release... Plus scope screens look breat in a HT setting and can be easily masked from the sides...

I just had a miserable experience with this thing. I've had a cheapo Celeron, but I bought the T2 disc and brought it to my parents' house to see if it would work on their P4 1.7 w/ an Nvidia MX. The whole DRM thing worked, but the video was choppy.

I needed a new PC anyways, and this motivated me to go buy one. I got an Athlon 2500+ system and a Radeon 9500 Pro. I tested out Step Into Liquid and it played perfectly. I popped in the T2 disc, installed the lame software, and now I can't get the license. Whenever that window pops up to "upgrade" my certificate, it just hangs and does nothing.

I tried backing up the license from my parents' PC and restoring it on mine. Same thing happens.

THis is unacceptable. Within a few weeks, pirates will have cracked this thing and it will be floating around on the Internet. These people will have no problems playing it, and can run it on whatever machine they want. Meanwhile, people who actually bought the thing like me are screwed.

Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
MrGonk, Dont worry your not alone....

In fact I am hopeful of creating a 2.35 screen for my next theater room so that the masterpieces filmed in scope are presented exactly as they should be... Filling a wider field of vision than a 16:9 or 1:1.85 release... Plus scope screens look breat in a HT setting and can be easily masked from the sides...

I agree, i think a 2.35:1 screen would look awesome in any setup, i just wish i had the space to do it, at the moment, the pull down screen hangs down perfectly from above the fireplace, and i can't warrant changing any of my setup right now.

Well, I purchased the T2:EE for one reason alone: the WMP9 HD version of the movie.

Nowhere did I see a mention of "USA and Canada only", until the first time I tried to open one of the .wmv-files on the disc.

I've now spent three hours changing proxy servers, installing upgrades to WMP, creating and deleting registry keys, to no avail. Has anyone else seen the "You seem to be using an anonymous proxy server. As we cannot ascertain your location, we cannot issue a license at this time" message? I get either that or the "USA or Canada only" message when trying either the POS IA or the equally POS WMP9, no matter which proxy server I try.

This has to be the largest load of BS anyone has managed to dump on me in the last 12 months.

I am probably going father than a I should but...

Try 169.204.228.86

Originally posted by gigatron
I'm pointing out next-gen movies should be made to fit the whole screen like that :/ It's a waste of space :rolleyes: I know what you mean ya.. but urhg.. its anoying yes more picture but.. oh well lol ;/ It's a strange thing :) But imagine the same movie widescreen but with more info on bottom. In other words film the movies zoomed out a bit here and there or something rather then zoomed up close so that sides are cut off.. i dunno im mumbling i plain and simple find the black bars a waste :/

Interestingly enough T2 is one of many movies shot on a film format called super35. This format actually captures a picture with an aspect ratio of around 1.54:1 which is then cropped to 2.35:1. So in actuality it was probably possibly to create a 16:9 version with no black bars that contained the full 2.35:1 picture plus extra picture on the top and bottom. In fact, if you look at a 4:3 version of T2 you will see more vertical picture than is present in the widescreen version.

Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
I am probably going father than a I should but...

Thanks PP, but no. "The contents of this disc..." blah blah.

I guess it wasn't meant to be. Damn their eyes.

hang on... thats the one I had success with a couple of days ago...

Which error are you getting... Non USA style or Anon Proxy ???

Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
Which error are you getting... Non USA style or Anon Proxy ???

The Non-Usa one. I tried pinging the IP address but got none of the packets back. By the way, which port does the proxy reside in? 80?

Originally posted by pteittinen
The Non-Usa one. I tried pinging the IP address but got none of the packets back. By the way, which port does the proxy reside in? 80?

Yep, I got the same.

Cant remember if it was 8080 or 80... One of those though...

http://visualroute.visualware.com/ lists it as a school in Washington state (hence my hints for .EDU domains... They are not anonamous)...

Try both 8080 and 80 and let me know if it fails...

Originally posted by FDM80
I'm planning on upgrading to a 2600+ in the next 2 weeks or so. I would just like to know if your chip is the 133/266 mhz bus version (Code Name: thoroughbred B) or the 166/333 mhz bus version (Code Name: Barton). Thanks

Its the Barton version.

I watched the Media 9 version this weekend at 1366 x 768, the native resoulution of my Sony HS-10 and have to say that there is a considerable difference between the Media 9 version and the regular dvd version.

Am I blown away by the it?? Not really, but it is still a big improvement.

It is as good as most HDTV shows in my opinion.

This format will probably be the answer to any High Definition DVD's in the near future, once the players are in the stores and the license problem resolved. I am going to stop buying any standard dvd's while I wait for more of these Media 9 HD disks to come out.

Thanks again to all for your input and help.

jammarjim

This format will probably be the answer to any High Definition DVD's in the near future

Lets hope not. We don't want this stopgap, 6-7mbit "HDTV". I'm certainly not upgrading just to play WMV format, you don't even get DD 5.1/DTS. This is (hopefully) just a fun, short diversion before the real thing, i.e 20-30mbit HD-DVD.

Originally posted by yeeker
I am on the internet and WMP9 just says that I have to insert my original DVD into my DVD-ROM drive.
Yeeker,

It appears you did not have cookies enable when you ran dvdrun.exe. Now when you run dvdrun.exe it does nothing because it thinks you already a license. To fix this problem do the following:

1. Enable cookies through Internet Explorer. If this isn't an option, at
least accept cookies from licenseserver.com by doing the following:
- In IE, click Tools->Internet Options and select the Privacy Tab
- Click "Edit..." in the Web Sites section of the dialog.
- Type in licenseserver.com and click Allow.
- Click OK to save and exit.

2. Delete the registry key for dvdrun.exe to force dvdrun to execute:
- Run regedit.exe (Start->Run. Type regedit.exe and hit enter)
- Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE->Software->Artisan
- Delete the entire T2 Key.

This will force your system to go fetch a license.

Let me know if this works.

-Ezra

For those of you with what might seem to be slow systems... there may be hope... i purchased T2 extreme edition and playing it on my system

AMD 1700+
256mb DDR 333mhz Ram
64mb GeForce 4200
Hercules Gametheater Xp
1600x1200 resolution at 85 Hz on 42" plasma and on my 19" monitor

i was able to get smooth playback of the wmp 9 content except a few stutters every now and then.. they seemed to occur at the same area on the disc each time. i used the digital out so it wasnt doing the full 5.1 but.. still.. it works...

Major discovery!

Your time and date in your system bios must be accurate or else the license will not download.

Nebrunner and myself had the same problem. The "upgrade" button would just grey out and hang. I remember he had a new system as well. I'm willing to bet his date and time were off because of this.

I built my system from scratch, and during the bios tweaking and memory settings, I had to reset the CMOS at one point. This set the date to Jan. 1st 2002, and I hadn't bothered to change it yet.

Now that I've set it, it works.

Something just dawned on me. I'm willing to bet that once the 5 day period is up, you can change the date in your system bios to the day you got the license, and it will still work w/o needing to update.

Originally posted by Lifter
Something just dawned on me. I'm willing to bet that once the 5 day period is up, you can change the date in your system bios to the day you got the license, and it will still work w/o needing to update.

This will probably not work, but you are free to give it a try.


Another thing to check for is, make sure "Automatically add purchased music to my library" is checked. I couldn't get the Do Amazing things to work with out it, and that has the license on the DVD.

I must say that I liked T2. It is amazing what fits on 6GB. Watching on 720p or higher resolution is a must, so when somebody says that difference is not significant I must assume viewing on lower resolutions, or comparing advanced DVD playback software to WMP crap. It will not blow you away compared to DVD played with top software (Lord of the Rings e.g.), but will give you a run for the money and will give you smoothness and resolution DVD can dream of. Just remember that DVDs don't look that great without great software. I would say it blows DVD out of the water (like DVD did VHS) if you do not use TT or ZP+FFDshow. However, I hope this will not be the future HD format. I vote for 1080p 30GB in Blue Ray. Difference between T2's resolution and DVD is significant, but not enough to justify the format change. The higher up resolution chain we go, the lesser marginal benefit is. So let's go up the chain all the way to HDTV max. But even if this is it, I can imagine that current T2 resolution with better compression alghoritam and higher mbps and decent software + post processing could yield another 40-50% increase in PQ. Not bad. However, this set-up would probably require 4GHZ CPU, wider FSB and faster RAM. Anyway, this is the thing of the future. By the way, T2 was using 500MB of RAM on my system - played smoothly - thanks god for ample of RAM. However, it could not play smoothly in WMR9 mode - I had to use overlay.

Vlad

P4 2.53 - 1 GB RAM - GF4TI 4200 128mb my Vivo with VPE - Audigy 2 - Emuzed Maui video capture - Panny 40" LCD rear projection 1280x720 via silver serpent Better cables RBG - XP PRO+ZP+FDDShow+NVDVD 2.27 in VMR9 mode

Originally posted by Jesse S
This format will probably be the answer to any High Definition DVD's in the near future

Lets hope not. We don't want this stopgap, 6-7mbit "HDTV". I'm certainly not upgrading just to play WMV format, you don't even get DD 5.1/DTS. This is (hopefully) just a fun, short diversion before the real thing, i.e 20-30mbit HD-DVD.

Maybe a future HD-DVD format won't have to be based off of an MPEG2 stream, but would be based off of an MPEG4.

I think this disc was a, "Hey, look at what we can do." deal. It's fun thing to play around with, but right now that's about it.

Slightly OT:

Does anyone know - since Artisan's site is rather uninformative - what future releases if any will also contain a HD WMV version?

"what future releases if any will also contain a HD WMV version?"

Yes, that is rather important. I didn't upgrade this much for one movie.

Nich

There is unlikely to be any more future releases of this type. Most of the curious have already tried this once and after all the hustle there will be interest in going through the mess again.

Microsoft has demonstrated technology and is probably looking for more user friendly way of licensing it.

There is no profitable market for this kind.

More important is the HD technology used to prepare the master for the DVD release that produced excellent DVD picture. This I hope would be used more often.

I finally got fed up last night and reformatted my C drive, then reinstalled XP and didn't replace any software, so I had a very clean install. When I did this, the license worked. This leads me to believe that I had some piece of software previously that was interfering with the license download.

I suspect it was SpyBot, a free spyware blocker. I am going to wait until the 5 days is up on the license, reinstall SpyBot, then try to download the license again and see if it works.

I enjoyed the hi-definition picture but there is a problem with it, at least on my computer. On the far left hand side of the screen, there is a 1/4 inch band of horizontal red and blue stripes going up and down the picture. It looks almost like bar code. It is evident the entire time.

Although the picture is very good, I will definitely not be purchasing anything in the future that holds the license separate from the media. Besides the fact that it is consumer unfriendly, I think it's in everybodies best interest not to support such products, we don't want Microsoft or anybody else thinking that they can take the rights away from the consumer and that the consumer will stand for it.

Branxx, the license messup was with Artisan, not MS. Other WMV movies and videos that need a license aquired a license seamlessly.

Paul Seng,

Unfortunatelly, Microsoft doesn not have any DVDV content on its own to release.

I agree with nebrunner, consumers are unlikely to support a product that they buy without the license to use.

For a while a music industry was telling us that when we buy a CD we only buy a license and that the media is effectively rented. This release turn this on the head: we now own the media but not the license.

"quit InterActual Player and use WMP9 to play by directly open the file on the DVD"

Where is that file? I can't find it.

I have another problem. While playing, the computer somtimes crashes
sound going DRDRDRDRRDDRDRDRDRDR with freeze image. And I have
to reboot. I have a AMD 2400+, 512 DDR and a Radeon 9500...Any
thoughts?

Thanks,

Nicholas

Nich,

Do a File…Open, and navigate to the folder on the DVD that contains the WMV files: \common\win\lang\en\t2x\esource. To play the entire film, simply open the CHAP_0.ASX file. You can also open the WMV files individually.

Or do a search on disk 2 for *.wmv and you will see the files.

Thanks!!!!

Does that mean that I could play them in ZP as well??

Nich

Originally posted by Nich
Thanks!!!!

Does that mean that I could play them in ZP as well??

Nich

I'm 99% sure that ZP will not play the T2 WMP9 edition as it does not currently the DRM licensing system, and will bring up a filter error of some description.

I'm not sure whether Blight will be able to implement it or not in future versions of Zoom, i guess he'll have to pay up for some licensing or something similar.

Hi Everybody,
I can't seem to get the center channel audio to work. I tried the interactual player as well as playing with WMP9 and the left, right and rear surrounds all sound good, but the center channel is very low. Barely audible. I have played with speaker settings to no avail. Hopefully I am just overlooking something simple. I am using a Revolution card with digital out going into my AV receiver.
Thanks for the help.
Scot
PS
When I play the film with WMP in full screen mode, the bottom slider bar won't go away. Any idea's on this as well? Thanks

To get the slider bar to go away you have to have the mouse cursor out in the field somewhere, just leave it on the black letterbox bar beneath the picture, and don't touch it. After a few seconds the menu will slide off the screen and you will just see the movie. If you jiggle the mouse or hit the keyboard the menu will slide back in.

Hi guys,
during my last visit in Usa for the Infocomm in Orlando I've purchased the T2 Extreme and followed the instructions from this thread to activate it. I was unlucky on my 2 pc that I use for dvd playback. I tried on another pc made with some old component and I could succeed in having T2 working in HD. Unfortunatelly this hardware is not good enough to run smoothly the movie (P4 1.5 Ghz).
What I have found on the 2 pc that do not play the T2 the decoder used by Interactual is Dvix Antifreeze ( Divxiv.ax file) when on the working pc the decoder used is ivivideo.ax from intervideo.
Does anybody know how to let Interactual player use the proper decoder file ?

Thanks for the help

Gianfi

Originally posted by nebrunner
To get the slider bar to go away you have to have the mouse cursor out in the field somewhere, just leave it on the black letterbox bar beneath the picture, and don't touch it. After a few seconds the menu will slide off the screen and you will just see the movie. If you jiggle the mouse or hit the keyboard the menu will slide back in.

If this doesn't work go into Tools/Options/Performance/Advanced and toggle off Full Screen Controls

I had to update to WinDVD Recorder to get it to play WMP files. I think it has newer decoders.

ScotDP - If you are outputting via digital out to your stereo, you will be receiving the stereo fold down mix. The center channel is being folded down into left and right stereo, and you are probably hearing channel replication for the rear channels. The way to get the full WMA Pro 5.1 out is via 6 discrete analog connections from the sound card to 6 analog channel inputs on your receiver.

gfbonomi - Try the workarounds in the thread where you don't have to use an MPEG-2 decoder - just open the files in Windows Media Player. I don't know about DivX Antifreeze, but Intervideo WinDVD or Cyberlink PowerDVD should do the job if you want to go that route - I would uninstall the other MPEG-2 decoders first.

-Dan

Originally posted by edavidson
Yeeker,

It appears you did not have cookies enable when you ran dvdrun.exe. Now when you run dvdrun.exe it does nothing because it thinks you already a license. To fix this problem do the following:

1. Enable cookies through Internet Explorer. If this isn't an option, at
least accept cookies from licenseserver.com by doing the following:
- In IE, click Tools->Internet Options and select the Privacy Tab
- Click "Edit..." in the Web Sites section of the dialog.
- Type in licenseserver.com and click Allow.
- Click OK to save and exit.

2. Delete the registry key for dvdrun.exe to force dvdrun to execute:
- Run regedit.exe (Start->Run. Type regedit.exe and hit enter)
- Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE->Software->Artisan
- Delete the entire T2 Key.

This will force your system to go fetch a license.

Let me know if this works.

-Ezra

Absolutely brilliant! It worked like a charm! Thanks Ezra!!

Happy Yeeker

Is it worth purchasing the WinDVD recorder to playback T2 HD ? I have been using TheaterTek for DVD playback and I was using Wind DVD 3.0 with YXY (Karnis and obviously Andy know why this combination) a couple of years ago. I can get a discount for WinDVD recorder or platinum since mine would be an upgrade from 3.0. The recorder is more expensive than platinum and I remeber seeing one of Karnis post that recorder is needed to play T2HD. Can you please confirm this Karnis ? Secondly, I now have a Sony HS-10 set for 1366x768. Would I still need YXY since recorder may not have the AR controls like TheaterTed does. Does Andrew have any plans to suppot WMV for Theatertek anytime in the near future ? I hate to make another purchase only to find Theatertek support it in the next release. I could not resolve the audio issues with WMP9 nor Interactual. The RME card that I have is a professional sound card and the drivers are very picky.
Thanks,
-Jai

Originally posted by turbo1
Oh yea, they are gathering personal information on you in case you missed this window when installing the iplayer.
If you want to prevent this, just do what I do and when they ask your age at the beginning of the InterActual setup, check the box that says "Under 13." It is illegal for any company to track the online habits of someone under the age of 13. This is because of the Children's Internet Protection Act, or CIPA. As an added benefit, you can skip all the registration questions as well.

Whenever a company asks me for that information, I just tell them I'm a female, under age of 13, living in Beverly Hills, CA, 90210! That'll usually get them off your back... Then if they track anything about you it's illegal.

Interesting... I copied the WMP9 files to my HD and the sound plays back great!
Thanks for all the tips on the full screen controls :D

I tried this disk the other day with installing the InterActual player and then using that and WMP to playback on my Athlon 2600+. Things seemed to play pretty smoothly and look great, so I invited a bunch of people over tonight to watch it. Well, in the meantime I saw here that I didn't need that POS player, so I used Ghost to go back. At lunch I started again and used dvdrun.exe this time. I get a window that I have to upgrade my security, but when it finally gets to the point of doing that I get an error in the window where it is trying to get it (I think it was the standard connection error). I can get to MSN or microsoft.com, but don't see where it is trying to go for this update. I checked for updates in WMP and it said it couldn't find any.

I then installed the POS IA player and ended up with the same errors.

I'm hoping there was just a temporary problem at the site where it was trying to get the update, since this worked for me last week and I haven't changed anything that should be related, from what I can tell. I'll try this after work again, but I guess I better find some other material if I can't show off the WM9 stuff.

People might be disappointed, but maybe I'll play The Animatrix or some HD material that I have. Hopefully not.

--Darin

Jai:
I installed WinDVD platinum & it wouldn't play T2 or any of the WMP HD files, I d/l'ed the Recorder & it did all of the WMP HD files, including T2.

This may be interesting to some -- I downloaded the T2 demos from MS website and here's what I found:

- BOTH demos play in Windows Media Player 8 (yes, ver. 8), the version that comes with Win-XP. Upon launch the MP8 downloads new codecs but they will play, and the media player is still ver. 8.
- On version 8, the 1280x554 clip plays perfect but the 1440x816 is stretched vertically. My guess is that MP8 doesn't know how to handle the anamorphic correction.

- After downloading MP Ver. 9, both clips play with the correct aspect ratio without distortion.

Frame rate lookup yielded these results:
- On a 700MHz P-III laptop, both clips were about 7fps and were unwatchable (well no surprise there although I was amazed it tried to play at all).
- On a 2GHz P4 with 512MB PC800 RDRAM with GeForce3 Ti500 both clips played OK, but the 1440x816 clip dropped a few frames (about 30 or so per demo), hardly noticeable.

It may be helpful if you all can post your frame rate on your attempts to run the HD clips at different machines, we can set some baselines what works and what doesn't... In Media Player, go to View>Statistics>Advanced to see the frame rate and dropped frames.

My 2 cents.

Anyone know if Windvd can report fps? I already know how to find them in WMP9. (I would think that you would need an external program to log the fps of windvd).

Jai- If possible, you should try a demo version to see if it works for you.

remarkably, both 720 and 1080 work smoothly on my decrepid AMD 1.7xp

I downloaded the 1080 Terminator clip, it runs like crap the first time through (6 fps) but the second time through it always runs around the full 24 fps. This is on my Athalon XP 2000+ w/ 512mb ram.

Originally posted by darinp
I'm hoping there was just a temporary problem at the site where it was trying to get the update, since this worked for me last week and I haven't changed anything that should be related, from what I can tell. I'll try this after work again, but I guess I better find some other material if I can't show off the WM9 stuff.
Just thought I would mention that I tried this about 5 hours after I had the problems and without changing anything I got it to work this time. Maybe it was just a problem at the site where it was trying to grab the security update.

Anyway, I played the whole movie with a couple of other people and we were all very impressed with the video quality. Very close to pretty good HBO-HD or SHO-HD to my eyes. We watched the first half on my HT1000 DLP on a 96" wide Firehawk and the last half on my M20 D-ILA on a 116" wide Hi-Power. Looked great on both.

There were maybe 6 or 8 pauses with black screen for a second or two that I assume were chapter breaks. I haven't looked through the threads to see if this is normal, but it isn't something I would expect to happen in the long run for this format to be accepted. I would really like to see ZoomPlayer support this and it seems like Microsoft could even come out ahead paying to get this in there, but at the least they should give any help possible and get rid of all roadblocks. They are in a position to gain at this point if we have a good playback system with aspect ratio control, etc.

--Darin

I think many (myself included) see the breaks when reading from DVD...

When from HD I only had one shorter break... Still not acceptable in a theater setting but I am prepared to think of this as a test case...

As I have said multiple times... If the MS division had any foresight they would be bending over backwards to donate whatever resources required to give Blight that DRM key... I think we all would see HTPC specific front end use within a month of him having the key... As it is the coral Reef 1080p without DRM plays best of all in ZP... Plus I then have the AR control...

the coral reef 1080p thing chops in zoomplayer for me, while its smooth in wmplayer, and this is on a p4 3ghz with 1024mb of ram.

I am finding that ZP is now the best but I did have to work on the WMP9 graph (initially it was putting FFDShow into the graph... 1080p decoding with FFDShow :eek: !!) once I sorted that out and got it down to an absolute min it is now the smoothest...

Media Centre (the J River one) was awful but I guess is just piggybacking on the ZP filter combo as now its also very smooth...

Its unfortunate that thier DRM implementation seems screwed as they have an anamorphic option... However thier non DRM files play... Its just the DRM ones are brutally slow (seconds per frame... On the 720p stuff too) also they dont seem to respect the anamorphic encoding for the T2 disc... Looks wrong though can be set to 2.35:1 manually...

Received T2:Extreme today, but as with "Shadows of Motown" first, I am unable to acquire a license for playback outside the US. I've been trying several proxies for the last 40 minutes, but just can't seem to get it right and play the hi-def content of T2. Either the proxy is not US based or anonymous.
"Shadows of Motown" however worked somewhen last week. T2... not a chance.

Can anyone help me out here? PM, if necessary.

IMHO: This is one huge reason why we must not allow to have software and the key to play it on two different media. It's just to darn annoying...

Help appreciated, thanks!

What's Shadows of Motown. Any new WMV9 trailers/demos?

Originally posted by gigatron
What's Shadows of Motown. Any new WMV9 trailers/demos?
"Shadows of Motown" was the first WMV9 DVD release. However it was only optimised for 1024x768 playback and the source material was lower quality.

However, Shadows of Motown also has the 3 BMWFilms short films in lower resolution WMV9 format on Disc 1, and they look pretty awesome on my 120" screen considering the resolution and 2Mbps bitrate used.

Overall a very worthwhile purchase if you are either hungry for WMV9 material, or interested in the Motown story (or both)!

KoolK..... THANKS! for the tip, I had no idea the BMW shorts were on the Standing in the Shadows disc, (mainly watched the HD version on disc #2), and at a higher rez than the SD versions on the MS disc, I see no limit on, actually no license on these at all. (Saw these [Beamer shorts] first on HDNet, well you get the drift)

All neat stuff, it's a shame that the licenseing thing did not work right for so many folks (or was good only in NA), as I think this may have killed any mass intrest in the product. Also I can't seem to get any results on a second display which is 16X9 (17" Sony flat panel, on my ATI 9000 128 Meg card, may try hooking it as primary and see, all it shows is the player shell, no overlay / picture, now, if I said that correctly?)

Again thanks for your tip, BTW; I really enjoyed "Standing in the Shadows", I lived through those times and had no idea (don't think anyone else did either) that was a "studio band" on all that stuff, the music business is so much like the movie business, interesting.

"Also I can't seem to get any results on a second display"

I had this problem with WMP and WinDVD, though PowerDVD seemed to work just fine. Are you trying to use both monitors at the same time? I came across this article in my search for a fix:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;306713

Sure enough, switching monitor setup so only one was active (as opposed to trying to use both simultaneously w/ identical displays) seemed to do the trick.

Lee.... Will try that now, and let you know, but it makes sense to me.

BTW watching T2 presently (on the fast box) it's day SIX, no indication it wants to call home again ? YET!

Take care and again thanks for reading my post.

Mike

Has anyone outside the US/Canada been able to acquire a license for T2 playback? If so, what proxy configuration did you use?
Thanks.

Hi Lee.... That worked like a clock, later it wanted to call home, I got on line and it got something, another 5 days, who knows? Thanks for the tip.

Take care...

Certified, Yes plenty... If the IP I posted no longer works try isung visual route tool that I posted to test non anonamous proxies... The proxy search that Li On posted is very helpful...

Certified D, Did you read the thread? Check the instructions Li On (he started this thread) posted. I belive they are on the FIRST PAGE. Drew

I did... now that I got the license it tells me to insert the DVD into my drive when it's already in there! When I eject the DVD an re-insert it, it starts from the beginning.
When I choose the High-Definition contect in the menu on the right side, it tells me again to insert the DVD into the drive... I'm stuck.

What do I have to do?

Thanks...
Desperate Certified D :( :confused:

barhoram, I know I must look stupid, but it just DIDN'T work...

I have de-installed InterActual player and deleted the T2 key in the registry, then restarted from the beginning. NOW it works.

But before, InterActual player just started over and over... I never really got the license, but only a popup message to insert the DVD into the drive while it was already in there. After de-installation and re-installation, this error was gone and everything worked as Li On described. Uff, I'm releaved...

Happy Certified D :D

Searched but couldn't find anything.... I'm getting only the FL and FR audio channels on T2. I'm using onboard ALC650 sound, and all 6 channels test fine in the test app. It seems that InterActual just isn't decoding the other 4 channels. Is there something I have to configure in the player?

Thanks

Edit: Looks like this requires XP...

Yes as mentioned WMA Pro is limited to both XP and multi channel analogue outs...

Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
Certified, Yes plenty... If the IP I posted no longer works try isung visual route tool that I posted to test non anonamous proxies... The proxy search that Li On posted is very helpful...

Originally posted by dgehred
It looks like most of you are moving off license issues and are now into playback ability questions. This is good to see.

If anyone is still stuck trying to get a license, please try the workaround posted by me earlier in this thread. If you still are stuck, PM me and I'll get you going.

-Dan

Hi Phat, dgehred,

Sorry to be a pain Phat, but........ what visual route tool?

I've looked all through the thread (Some thread) twice, but just can't find this!

You may have guessed I just can't find a workable proxy for love nor money!........ I've been through Li On's link and I must have tried over 100 "poxy proxy's" now & all have resulted in either the "Anonymous" "USA & Canada" or plain "Unavailable" denials by the flippin IA player.

I'm sure my set up is up to the job. I've downloaded both T2 HD trailers and watched them without problem & even followed dgehred's workaround to play the damn thing on WM9 directly without problem.......... right up to the point of opening the CHAP_0.ASX file......... only to be met there by my three ol' mates above with all the proxy's that I've tried!.........AAAAAAGGGGGGHHHH!!!!

Having now regained my British self-control & In my best "Stiff upper lip" accent, Ahem.........

"I say you chaps, It would be a jolly good show if someone could assist one of your "special friends" in good old blighty to enjoy the this spiffing new Hi Def thingy!"

Must away now...... the maids just brought my morning tea, tally Ho!

(Dan, you have pm)

KBDVD.

I'm using a P4 2.4 with 512 MB of PC1066 RDRAM and an AIW 8500 DV (64 MB). I know this is less than the recommended specs for T2EX, but I read here that others had no problems at less than 3.06. Well, I get consistent jitter and skips during playback and cpu utlization is 90-99%. Is anyone else using an AIW 8500 DV? I'd like to know if it's just my vid card or if the processor is just too slow.

Also, how do you get WMP to play the hi-def movie? I can get the InterActual player to show the movie, but I keep getting the "Load InterActual Player" menu in WMP. If I'm supposed to play the files right off the dvd, which file do I select?

Thanks.

KBDVD,
I'm in the same boat as you, I've been trying to get it to work for 3 or 4 hours now and just keep getting the anonymous proxy or outside the USA/Canada message. It's really driving me nuts now!!!! Please can someone help here as I'm nearly ready to give up on this. I've tried the proxy listed in this thread and it didn't work (said only viewable in the USA/Canada with that one).

Cheers
Andy

Originally posted by zAndy12
KBDVD,
I'm in the same boat as you
*HOP*

Hi Andy and KBDVD.

I feel kind of bad because I haven't been able to receive any other error messages other than the "USA & Canada" one. It would be a welcome change to see the "Anonymous proxy" error once in a while but no, I only get the "USA & Canada" thing :(

Humm, is it possible to convert the WMV HD-files to, say, Xvid? It would be a lot more convenient for us HTPCers to have one 2-3gb file with real DD 5.1 soundtrack... The vanishing of the licensing issues would also be a nice point.

Arghh....I still cannot get the license.

I am praying I am praying...arghhhh...still no success.

I have paid the money and I have the LD to ProLogic DVD to Ultimate to my goodness....the most difficult version...It is just too extreme!


CH Yeow

Same here: It used to work a week or so ago, but now I get the US/Canada-message. I even deleted the T2-license in the registry, but it didn't help either. Do nI really have to uninstall the I-player too????:mad: :mad: :mad:

wow.. It just keeps getting more pathetic

I actually was able to return mine as it is unuseable, after they tried to play it at the store and could not even get a license they happily gave me my money back :) tho they triede convinceing me it was only a problem with my copy == hehe if that were only true..

Ok, got it working at last, need to overclock my P4 2.4Ghz slightly to get decent playback but at least it's possible. Just a couple of problems a) I'm only getting sound out of the front L&R , using M-Audio Revolution set to analog out, any idea why this might be? Also there are huge black bars at the top and bottom of the picture, it's not 2.35:1 that's for sure. Suspect this is something to do with my plasma being 1024 x 768 with non square pixels but is there anything I can do to improve things at all i.e. make the video fill more of the screen?

Cheers
Andy

The HD version really should have been a free beta release considering all the hassle we have to go through.

DRM - not only is it a huge pain to set up, but it limits the software you can use. Since I use a 503cmx plasma with slightly rectangular pixels, there is no way I can see the proper aspect ratio. In ZP, I use source relative stretch to correct it. I'm sure there are lots of other plasma others (much of the HD market) who will have the same problem.

IA player - no comment, the best part of IA is uninstalling it.

Downmixed stereo audio - simply unacceptable that most users have to be stuck with 20-year-old audio.

And to top it off, the HD version is only marginally sharper than the regular DVD. If I just play the regular DVD with WinDVD + ffdshow, it looks almost as good with zero hassle.

Had I known all this, I would have never bought the DVD. If this is the future of HD-DVD, I think I'll pass.

Originally posted by zAndy12
Ok, got it working at last
Seems you're from UK? I, and I'm sure some others would too, appreciate any info you could give on getting the damn thing to work. What proxy did you use?

zANDY12,

What speed did you overclock to?

Well I upped the FSB from 133 to 144 which I think equates to a jump from 2.4Ghz to 2.6Ghz, I'm not certain as I can't see anything about multipliers in the bios but I'm just working on the multiplier being approx 18 (18 x 133 = 2400 approx). CPU temp has risen about 5C, settling now at around 63 - 64C which is slightly hotter than I'd like but I think I just need some new thermal paste to get it down a bit (didn't put a lot on the last time I fixed the heatsink as I ran out!).
I'll PM anyone that wants the proxy I used, tomorrow now cos I'm off to be (it is midnight here in the UK!).
To be honest the aspect ratio is really spoiling things, it just doesn't look right, don't get me wrong the PQ is fantastic also it's difficult watching a DVD now cos the picture looks so soft in comparison! Got the 5.1 audio working as well btw, control panel, sounds, needed to set it to 5.1 surround speakers in there...

Cheers,
Andy.

Originally posted by KBDVD

You may have guessed I just can't find a workable proxy for love nor money!........ I've been through Li On's link and I must have tried over 100 "poxy proxy's" now & all have resulted in either the "Anonymous" "USA & Canada" or plain "Unavailable" denials by the flippin IA player.



I manage to get a license last week after trying out a few proxys from the link Li On posted. Today when I needed to update the license the old proxy I used didn't work! I think I went through more then 100 other proxies without success. Finally I dialed in two my office modem pool and used the Intranet with a U.S proxy that worked. This is not open to public so unfortunately you can't use it. If you do have a colleague in the states with a dial up Internet access, you can always "borrow" it for a few seconds, just to get the license.

It sucks big time that it should be such a hustle to get up and running. I wouldn't be surprise if MS or Artisan are breaking some international trading laws by refusing licensees to other countries that bought the movie.

Yeah, I can't see me going through the hassle I went through today to get a license again. If the proxy I used this time doesn't work next time I'll probably just forget about it, took me about 4 hrs today to get it working, bloody ridiculous. Worth seeing it for the novelty and knowing that I'm quite priviliged to have seen it but with the aspect ratio problem and the license problems it's not worth the hassle.

Andy.

Originally posted by zAndy12
Well I upped the FSB from 133 to 144 which I think equates to a jump from 2.4Ghz to 2.6Ghz, I'm not certain as I can't see anything about multipliers in the bios but I'm just working on the multiplier being approx 18 (18 x 133 = 2400 approx). CPU temp has risen about 5C, settling now at around 63 - 64C which is slightly hotter than I'd like but I think I just need some new thermal paste to get it down a bit (didn't put a lot on the last time I fixed the heatsink as I ran out!).

Cheers,
Andy.

Andy, did you ever try to run it direct from the HD? I couldn't get a stutter free picture at 2.4GHz, but at 2.16Ghz running it from the HD was no problem.

Originally posted by bmwrob
It sucks big time that it should be such a hustle to get up and running. I wouldn't be surprise if MS or Artisan are breaking some international trading laws by refusing licensees to other countries that bought the movie.

The region limitation option is similar to region coding of DVDs. This release is licensed for Region 1. They are not breaking any laws, its just that the DVD was exported to a region it should not have been. Using the proxies or US based dial-ups are means of circumventing licensing. You really should not be upset that your are having such a difficult time hacking this. Instead you should yell are Artisan to produce this DVD for other regions.

Originally posted by bmwrob
Andy, did you ever try to run it direct from the HD? I couldn't get a stutter free picture at 2.4GHz, but at 2.16Ghz running it from the HD was no problem.

ROB, YOU ARE THE MAN! THANK YOU!

Originally posted by Black Magic
The region limitation option is similar to region coding of DVDs. This release is licensed for Region 1. They are not breaking any laws, its just that the DVD was exported to a region it should not have been. Using the proxies or US based dial-ups are means of circumventing licensing. You really should not be upset that your are having such a difficult time hacking this. Instead you should yell are Artisan to produce this DVD for other regions.

Normal DVD region coding is arguable violating international trade treaties (e.g. NAFTA) as it discriminates against certain countries. If a government had setup the region coding system certainly WTO would have had something to say about it! A powerful body might be able win a law suits against it.

This is an extract from MPAA FAQ:
"Regional DVD coding was devised to protect the theatrical distribution market for motion pictures in international markets. It is simply impossible with present technologies to supply film prints of a movie to all of the theaters around the world at the same time. Motion pictures released by the major studios are generally released first in the Untied States and subsequently overseas. For this reason, motion pictures are released to theaters in countries in a "staggered" sequence. After the theatrical exhibition of a motion picture in a particular country, it is then released to the pay-per-view, video and television markets. DVDs are regionally coded to prevent them from being imported into countries where the motion picture has not yet completed its theatrical release. Without such protections, motion picture theatrical distributors and exhibitors abroad could lose a significant portion of their audiences to advance DVD viewing. The lost theatrical revenues could result in theater closures, lost jobs, depriving consumers throughout the world from seeing motion pictures on the big screen. A similar impact has occurred in some worldwide markets where illegal imports are unchecked."

For the "T2 Extreme", I believe there is no intension to even sell it outside the U.S/Canada, which for me seem like a violation!
Violation or not, the whole thing is pathetic. For MS and Artisan this is clearly just a test bed for them (that they unfortunately charge us for). They are not stupid and certainly realize that the whole concept will not sell if it doesn?t get more user friendly, so peronally I'm not worried. If the concept survives, it must get better and the region issue must be removed.

Pictures this, you are living in the U.S. you have built up a big collection of movies following this concept. Then one day you get a job opportunity in lets say the U.K. and you move there. Suddenly now your whole collections of films are useless as you can?t play them. Does that make any sense?

I do believe in fighting piracy and the need for licenses, but the region coding is plain stupidity!

bmwrob,

How are you playing it from the HD? What player are you using and what video card? Please add any settings or filters.

I'm using WMP9 to play the iso image using Daemon Tools with an AIW8500DV and a P4 2.4 and I'm still getting most of the same stutters.

Originally posted by bmwrob
...arguable...I believe... seem like...

Pictures this, you are living in the U.S. you have built up a big collection of movies following this concept. Then one day you get a job opportunity in lets say the U.K. and you move there. Suddenly now your whole collections of films are useless as you can?t play them. Does that make any sense?

I do believe in fighting piracy and the need for licenses, but the region coding is plain stupidity!

All good arguments/justifications, but it does not change the fact this it is currently still illegal to circumvent this.

What country do you live in that forces you to sell your product to everyone everywhere? Although it is a good business model, it is not a requirement.

I'm sorry for jumping on you like this, but I was just getting tired of people complaining that they were having difficulty hacking the region coding. It would be far more productive to send all these complaints to Artisan as they decided on implementing this.

I think the point is that rather than HAVING to sell your product to everyone everywhere, is that if someone buys your product, they're not limited to using it in the place they bought it.

Yes it's pretty clear that the disc will only work in the US and Canada, but it seems a bit stupid that some people in the US and Canada have trouble playing the disc whilst other people in Europe have got copies that work fine, illegal circumventing or not.

Black Magic.... I live here, and it was NOT easy to get the license, I did get it, twice now in the case of T2, BUT only due to some GOOD GUY here posting a work around! I think they (MS and Artisan) have killed off any interest in "protected" WM9 due to if nothing else the license issue(s).

Even the most sted fast hobbyest most likely had about all they can take by now. This is sad as Standing in the Shadows worked very well for me, on getting the license. Even the MS demo disc was "hard to use" in that sense! O'well only one opinion.

So based on that MPAA FAQ, once movie theaters all get digital projectors, and movies are distributed digitally, their argument for having DVD regions becomes moot, right?

Speaking of which, weren't Titan AE and Star Wars II both digitally distributed? Are the DVDs still region specific?

Originally posted by SeaneyC
I think the point is that rather than HAVING to sell your product to everyone everywhere, is that if someone buys your product, they're not limited to using it in the place they bought it.

What about export laws forbidding such practices as exporting encryption technology to some countries? You can purchase it and use it within the boundaries of one country, but are not allowed to export it to another.

Originally posted by mikey p
Black Magic.... I live here, and it was NOT easy to get the license,

I'm not arguing that. I agree with you that this is a valid argument for legitimate use of the product within the boundaries of its licensing. You have every right to complain that it is difficult for you to get it working. I don't think it is legitimate to complain about anonymous proxy work arounds.

Originally posted by Black Magic
What about export laws forbidding such practices as exporting encryption technology to some countries? You can purchase it and use it within the boundaries of one country, but are not allowed to export it to another.

What about them? It's nothing to do with encryption export, DRM is implimented in every copy of WMP9 around the world, the fact is, the disc won't play for some "legitimate" users, whilst other users, not only paying to test out the new technology, are having to find ways to get it to work.

I think it's quite fair for them to use this alleged "hack" as a work around to get something to work that should work anyway. I mean, if you were to buy a car, if the key supplied didn't actually work in the ignition, you'd ask for a key that worked right? The bottom line is, the only reason for the DRM is to restrict use outside of North America, but has clearly already failed, as a group of people in North America are having problems aquiring the license, and some people outside North America are able to aquire the license with no problems (using a US proxy for work etc..) All it does is hinder legitimate users of the product.

What if the key server breaks down? No one will be able to watch the film after 5 days. DRM implementation using this "over the internet" method is idiotic, and i hope this shows Artisan & M$ what problems they will have if they continue to release anything (if anything) in this format. Personally, i think it's a great format, giving me HD without having to emigrate, or purchase a D-VHS player, and i hope they bring out some more films in the future.

The DRM is so embarrassing it is not even funny. I still can't figure out HOW I got it to work - and yes I live in Chicago, USA with a 1.5mbit SDSL line. I had some friends over after dinner and they all wanted to watch T2. Being "fresh" from best buy I popped in the DVD hoping WM9 would just "play" the disk.

Well, the license just kept searching for minutes but NEVER found it. INstalled teh Player, uninstalled the player etc.

Finally it plays. Great. Can't play it off of my DVD drive - even with 3ghz - but I need to copy it to the HD. After it gets there it is great.

If this is the future of HD-DVD then NO ONE other then the 10 people on the planet htat can play this back smoothly will use it.

WHat if you internet connection goes down? This is just stupid and I will NOT be buying any more of this until a hassle free system is worked out.

Now that WM9-Cracked is available maybe that is the solution - use the "cracked" Wm9. Never thought I would think of that but this 1 hour of frustration just to play a movie proves this system is only hurting legit users.

Do we have any options other than Windows Media Player and the player that comes on the disc? Even playing the .wmv files off the HD results in stuttering playback. If I was able to use ZoomPlayer, I'm sure I'd have better results, but I can't get it to play on ZP :( Are there any alternatives?

I can't get Zoomplayr to play it back. Even if you did your quality would suffer as the post-processing ony works in Wm9 player

ZP does not currently support DRM, which is why it doesn't work. I'm sure Blight would implement it if he could, there are probably complex issues/fees to deal with.

Another InterActual 'Player' problem I just noticed: It doesn't stop the screen saver from kicking in. I'm sticking to WMP - no long delays / hangs skipping around, either.

On the bright side - my only problem with getting the license (in US) was one of the many times that it seemed the license server was down...

Black Magic.... Concur, however everyone let this cat out of the bag, in a big way if you will, heck even MS has a clip on their site along with other samples. Maybe the real question is where did the out of license area folks get these copies? If the got legal copies where they live, that may be another question? (or were they just to view the DVD version, disc #1?, remember this film has been released at least twice, I got another DVD version, myself, could be a LD version too?)

In any event this whole thing has caused a lot of bad will about the product, HD WM9, (MPAA / RIAA). Can you imagin going through this with a "legal" HD DVD (Blu-Ray, whatever when / if) that ever gets here? Could be D-Theater / D VHS is looking better all the time (I know "tape" not withstanding), but it works now and with no BS.

We in any event agree on the fact this is a issue. Take care......

Originally posted by SeaneyC
What about them? It's nothing to do with encryption export, DRM is implimented in every copy of WMP9 around the world, the fact is, the disc won't play for some "legitimate" users, whilst other users, not only paying to test out the new technology, are having to find ways to get it to work.


You missed my point. I was using export laws of encryption as an example to illustrate my point about buying something in one place and being able to export it elsewhere.

Please refer back to my earlier response about my stance on "legitimate" users. They have a valid complaint as to why they can't use the product that they purchased.

Originally posted by SeaneyC
I think it's quite fair for them to use this alleged "hack" as a work around to get something to work that should work anyway...

Spoken like a true pirate. I don't agree with X company (even though they spent millions on this product that I want), so I'll just work around the licensing and justify it to myself.

Hmm, let's see, I've wasted quite a bit of time arguing with you, so I'll just pull $10 from your checking account. I'm not authorized to do so, but it sure would make me feel better. :)

Originally posted by SeaneyC
What if the key server breaks down? No one will be able to watch the film after 5 days. DRM implementation using this "over the internet" method is idiotic, and i hope this shows Artisan & M$ what problems they will have if they continue to release anything (if anything) in this format.

While the system is not perfect, it is far from idiotic. It is a means for cracking down on illegal activity. It is unfortunate that the world is not an honest place. It is full of people that want to take matters into their own hands. This system exists because of those people. I'm sure you would change your opinion if you were on the other side of the fence.

If you do not agree with it, do not purchase the product. If you are a legitimate user and are having problems using the system, complain to the companies involved. Please just stop complaining about how you can't get a Region 1 HD-DVD to work in another region.

The only argument I can agree on is that the box does not clearly state that this is a Region 1 product. There is one logo in the bottom right that states this, but it is not intuitive. If however you purchased this product through a reputable dealer like Amazon, they clearly state:

Encoding: Region 1 (U.S. and Canada only. This DVD will probably NOT be viewable in other countries. Read more about DVD formats.)

Originally posted by Black Magic

I'm sorry for jumping on you like this, but I was just getting tired of people complaining that they were having difficulty hacking the region coding. It would be far more productive to send all these complaints to Artisan as they decided on implementing this.

BM, no offence taken. You do have a valid point. There is never any excuse for breaking the law. In this case though, who is actually breaking the law? Me buying an original DVD (who said I didn?t buy it in the states?) or Artisan breaking the NAFTA...

You are right that it?s towards Artisan we shall complain. As I mention earlier, I believe the format will kill itself if it?s this difficult to watch a movie. Artisan would be very stupid if they didn?t realize this.

Originally posted by mikey p
...Maybe the real question is where did the out of license area folks get these copies?...In any event this whole thing has caused a lot of bad will about the product, HD WM9, (MPAA / RIAA)....We in any event agree on the fact this is a issue. Take care......

Finally! Someone is thinking instead of just being angry about not getting their way.

The mechanism to get legitimate licenses has issues for this release. The Do Amazing Things DVD was alot better. Clearly some refinement for this process is necessary. I hope all the companies learned not to use the POS Interactual player in the future.

Originally posted by bmwrob
In this case though, who is actually breaking the law? Me buying an original DVD (who said I didn?t buy it in the states?) or Artisan breaking the NAFTA...

You didn't break the law by buying the DVD in the states. As per my earlier post, Region 1 means: This DVD is only intended to operate in Region 1 and we will implement processes to prevent it from operating elsewhere. You are free to use it when in the States, but using it elsewhere is a violation of the licensing of the product because you have exported it. It is a violation because you have to hack or circumvent the processes put in place to enforce this.

Artisan is not breaking NAFTA by implementing this. On a side note, doesn't region 1 include all the NAFTA countries?

Originally posted by PillPu$her
bmwrob,

How are you playing it from the HD? What player are you using and what video card? Please add any settings or filters.

I'm using WMP9 to play the iso image using Daemon Tools with an AIW8500DV and a P4 2.4 and I'm still getting most of the same stutters.

Am using WMP9 (not using Video Mixing Rendering). I tried Win DVD without success. I have a Asus P4T533-C, P4 2.0GHz (as I mentioned OC to 2.16), 512 Mb RDRAM (RAMBUS), Radeon 8500 DL 64Mb (OC to 275MHz). Ensure to turn off all other background task as Virus checks etc.

Hi again.

I have to agree with the ones here stating that they won't buy any
more of these releases. I just popped in my WM9 T2 and the server
was stated as busy. That means I can't watch the movie.

I didn't think I would say this, since I like the quality, but let's wait
for another format. This isn't the way. As if DVD didn't make enough
money, even though some people copy them. It's a goldmine.

Isn't there another way to handle that license? Why don't they see
the light and quit that licensing bull? I love to have showdisks, but my
guest look funny in the face when I tell them about, pull out the disk
and not being able to play it.

After all, I did buy it, so I should be able to play it, right?

Nicholas, rather upset. We were to finish it tonight, but....

Originally posted by Black Magic Spoken like a true pirate. I don't agree with X company (even though they spent millions on this product that I want), so I'll just work around the licensing and justify it to myself.
Not at all - The point is, people in North America who have legitimately bought the disk cannot use it! Power to them if they find a way to use the disc outside of the "normal methods" which have been proven time and time again not to work. I'm not advocating hacked versions of WMP9 that do not use DRM, i never said this. I was referring to the alternative methods of gaining the keys from Artisan.
Originally posted by Black Magic Hmm, let's see, I've wasted quite a bit of time arguing with you, so I'll just pull $10 from your checking account. I'm not authorized to do so, but it sure would make me feel better. :)
I'm sure it would, but the point is, people have paid good money for a disc that is useless, and they are well within their rights to expect it to work. I don't see the workarounds outlined here to be illegal.
Originally posted by Black Magic While the system is not perfect, it is far from idiotic. It is a means for cracking down on illegal activity. It is unfortunate that the world is not an honest place. It is full of people that want to take matters into their own hands. This system exists because of those people. I'm sure you would change your opinion if you were on the other side of the fence.
There are various ways about cracking down on various illegal activities, i just happen to think that over the internet DRM is one of the bad ones.
Originally posted by Black Magic
If you do not agree with it, do not purchase the product. If you are a legitimate user and are having problems using the system, complain to the companies involved. Please just stop complaining about how you can't get a Region 1 HD-DVD to work in another region.
I haven't purchased the product. I've seen legitimate users complaining, and see that they have come here to find workarounds to getting the keys to install properly, as Artisan have been no help. I never said i can't get a region 1 HD-DVD to work, and i'm not complaining about how i can't get my copy to work, as i don't own one.

My bottom line is, i just can't see why legitimate users cannot view the disc, while some "illegal" users have had so few complications viewing it, by just changing a few numbers in their internet connection. The only good thing to come out of this fiasco is the obvious realisation that DRM over the internet is only ever going to punish the legitimate user, whilst only hindering very few "illegal" users. As of now, i have not purchased the disc, but will probably buy it soon as it is my only hope of HD on a budget for the forseeable future. Lock me up for illegal activities, and whilst you're at it, take away all my non region 2 DVDs, and my multiregion DVD players.

Nick,
I think one of the first thing Microsoft has to learn form this first experiment, is that they need more control over the final product. They need to run the servers etc. They also need to set up a standard protocol for playing and tell the various movie companies that either you take or leave it. They cannot rely on non technology companies to get stuff like this correct. Also they are indirectly affected due to the negative backlash not just against Artisan but also towards their format.

hgodwin

I have held off on buying this thing. I was thinking about just renting it from BlockBuster until they get this licsensing issue fixed. I'll admit I was confused, I thought that you could only watch the HD program for 5 days after you activated the license. I didn't realize that it would still play the HD after 5 days it just needed to check the internet again.

Tim Huey

Originally posted by SeaneyC
I haven't purchased the product. I've seen legitimate users complaining, and see that they have come here to find workarounds to getting the keys to install properly, as Artisan have been no help. I never said i can't get a region 1 HD-DVD to work, and i'm not complaining about how i can't get my copy to work, as i don't own one.

Ok, I see the disconnect here. The Region 1 users are having issues starting the authentication process via the InterActual player. They are not having problems with the US based proxies. The work arounds on the previous pages posted by Microsoft people (DVDRUN) and other members (Nuking InterActual registry keys) are completely fine. This is completely legitimate as they have valid licenses for the product, it's just that the software on the DVD is failing.

I'm talking about the non-Region 1 people complaining about proxies not working. They are not licensed to have the product, yet are complaining that it is difficult to work around it.

In the future please don't rant and rave about something you do not have experience in.

Regardless of the fact that I had no problems whatsoever getting the license and watching it (with 5.1 surround sound no less), there's still a major problem with this release. In 5 years will I still be able to watch it? Chance are no - chances are the server won't be up in 5 years, and so I'll be stuck with a useless DVD that I paid $20 for. Running that licensing server costs money, and chances are that long before 5 years has gone by they will not be making enough money from sales of this DVD to continue running the server. Especially once true HD-DVD's or whatever are released (I can't wait to get my T2 Uber Edition). Especially when the Internet goes away and is replaced by Internet 2, forcing them to setup a whole new server.

For those that are seeing pauses due to file changes, have you tried to modify the ASX file? I noticed that Prebuffer was set to FALSE in CHAP_0.ASX. I changed mine to the following:

<PARAM NAME="Prebuffer" VALUE="true"/>

Also I noticed that several people were complaining about multiple pauses during playback. Seeing as there are only 4 files, shouldn't there be only 3 pauses due to file changes? The other ones may be due to other bottlenecks in the system.

Black Magic,

Yes, many Legit users in the USA (in my example Chicago) were unable to get a license for at least 1 hour on Friday night. The Interactual player was terrible and finally got the lciense using WM9.

THe best question is this: in 2 years can I play this? When DRM is cracked and MS changes it will they continue to run the old cracked authentication server?

Finally, I thought a "cracked' drm WM9 player was available due to some bug in MS's own beta release. THis might be the answer for legit users who want to play the damn DVD and NOT wait 1 hour for the busy server to give me a license.

Originally posted by Black Magic
In the future please don't rant and rave about something you do not have experience in.

And in future please don't say that i speak like a pirate, acuse me of being on "the other side of the fence", and presuming that i'm complaining about something that i'm not licensed to have. My issue isn't with the disc, it's with the licensing. I have no personal experiance of trying to circumvent said protection, but i feel i've seen enough comments on it to make informed comment about the issues highlighted within. I feel that i don't need to own something first to be aware of the issues surrounding it, when they're well documented like in this forum.

I think we can agree on a few things however, firstly that the people outside of the licensing zone should not be complaining about getting the disc to work, it was never meant to work. However, we do see examples of people getting it to work with no problem, which i think is strong evidence that the system is more of a hinderence to the legitimate buyers than the people importing the disc. Secondly, something needs to be done about this licensing system. The fact that there are already 22 or 23 pages in this thread shows that this system has some serious problems, which really should have been ironed out before the disc was released.

Originally posted by bmwrob
This is an extract from MPAA FAQ:
"Regional DVD coding was devised to protect the theatrical distribution market for motion pictures in international markets. It is simply impossible with present technologies to supply film prints of a movie to all of the theaters around the world at the same time. Motion pictures released by the major studios are generally released first in the Untied States and subsequently overseas. For this reason, motion pictures are released to theaters in countries in a "staggered" sequence. After the theatrical exhibition of a motion picture in a particular country, it is then released to the pay-per-view, video and television markets. DVDs are regionally coded to prevent them from being imported into countries where the motion picture has not yet completed its theatrical release.

So when will the T2 be released in the movie theaters in Europe? Or wait, that has already happened 12 years ago. And when will we see "staggered" T2 HD DVD European release? This does not make any sense to me.

Tomas

Originally posted by Black Magic
For those that are seeing pauses due to file changes, have you tried to modify the ASX file? I noticed that Prebuffer was set to FALSE in CHAP_0.ASX. I changed mine to the following:

<PARAM NAME="Prebuffer" VALUE="true"/>

Also I noticed that several people were complaining about multiple pauses during playback. Seeing as there are only 4 files, shouldn't there be only 3 pauses due to file changes? The other ones may be due to other bottlenecks in the system.

Where do you set this value?

I got the HD Movie to run with no problems on a 2.8Ghz (800MHz bus) and 1GB of Ram. It wouldn't play very well in the crap Interplay players, but played perfectly fine in Windows Media player.

Can somebody tell me where on disc 2 the hi def files are? I followed the directions for playing the Hi Def version in Window Media 9, but when I get to the part where I am supposed to open the file to play it....I CANT FIND THEM!! There is nothing with a .wm extension on my disc, but Interactive has no trouble finding them... What gives?

Walt

Well, add me to the list of people who are unimpressed with this implementation.

Here's my experience;
I pop disk 2 in the drive, let it autorun, install Interactual player.. Interactual runs, loads the T2 Extreme Edition skin, and hangs. I usually need to 'end task' to get it to exit. I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling interactual, and I have the same problem.

Has anyone seen this behavior? I'm contemplating returning this disk as a few other posters said they've done.

I could not get the interplayer to work. It sucked. WM9 works but I had to make a playlist.

Also, I could not get it to "buffer" so there were some skips when it hit my HD.

Running off the DVD was painful - 5 FPS

It's the Interactual player that is going to ruin all of this, and I hope Microsoft is paying close attention.

That player has been crap since day one. I remember you had to install it to watch some special preview footage of Attack of the Clone when The Phantom Menace came out, and it didn't work that well then either.

If Artisan plans on doing this again, I hope they realize that the "license" requirement is a stupid waste, and that it's best to stay clear of a crappy player like Interactual.

For all the people having trouble getting the lisence with the interactual player. The dvdrun.exe work around posted earlier in this thread has worked for me and I encourage everyone who is having trouble to scan back and try and find it. Follow the directions and see how things go. It could save you a ton of trouble. (I was able to get it to work without deleting the specified registry key in the directions).

Make sure your system clock is accurate also or the DRM portion will not work. I noticed if the clock is off by more than a week the system will hang.

I install the Inter-Actual player for the T2 DVD-ROM on the 2nd disk and get the following error when attempting to run it ->

- Microsoft C++ Runtime Error
- Abnormal Program Termination

Does anyone else get this error when attempting to run the InterActual Player? What a piece of junk. Oh well. This was a good Father's Day gift gone Bad for me, based on the above error.

HTBuilder

To everyone still trying to use the Interactual player... save yourself a lot of grief and uninstall it - use WMP instead. See dgehred's excellent post for the steps on how to do this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2284057#post2284057


To those looking for the actual files on the disc (i.e., they want to copy to their hard drive to get around DVD ROM performance limitations, license is still required), they are found on disc 2 at:

\common\win\lang\en\t2x\esource\*.wmv


Once you've gone thru the steps in dgehredin's post, playing the CHAP_0.ASX file will play the whole movie.

When I tried to use WMP, which I did first, It just sat there trying to get the license. I got tired of waiting and installed IA player and it worked the first time. I must be lucky or something? I haven't hooked up my Audigy 6ch out yet so I can only hear it in Pro Logic. Still not too bad. I'm not sure if I want to go through the hassle of connecting the sound. I already have a DVD-A player connected to my receivers 6ch input.

I'm running a Dell 4550, 2.66g, 128mb ATI 9700TX, and 256 megs of RAM.

I know this is probably sacrilege but I did try the IA player for other DVD's I have and it really wasn't all that bad. At least I didn't think so. I must be missing something? Of course I didn't try and watch anything all the way through, just bits and pieces. It's kind of cool how the skin changes for each IA enabled DVD. I still prefer POWER DVD XP, now that I have the latest patch, but it won't play the windows HD media.

Hi All,

My tupence haypny's worth from the UK.

(Please feel free to skip this post if you don't like long controversial posts from foreigners who don't really have a leg to stand on and are inclined to throw their toy's out of their pram's.)

Since T2 was first released as a Home Video title I have purchased it a total of SEVEN times! (Not to mention having seen it twice in Theaters.)
Firstly on good old PAL VHS, then the standard & subsequent Box set NTSC Laserdisc releases, then the standard & Ultimate R1 DVD releases, and now the R1 Extreme version.

Now, irrespective of the legalities of DVD Region coding or DRM issues, I consider that this track record, not to mention the cash that the titles owners have directly or indirectly received from me by these purchases gives me a few moral rights.

One such right should be the right to come on this forum and openly discuss my desire to obtain and view this title, and my problems in so doing, without some members accusing me and my fellow Home Theater enthusiasts outside of the USA of being "Pirates".

It's very easy for Home Theater enthusiasts in the US to take the high moral ground over region coding. After all, you get to legitimately purchase 99% of movies before the rest of us, and you have multiple High Definition programme options available to you so it really is a non-issue.

Consider if you will for a moment, how keen you might be to get to see this release in all it's HD glory if you happened to live outside the US? Especially if, as I do, you live in a country with no plans for HDTV of any description, have never seen a HD presentation of any material, and most importantly,
you are having it readily made available to you to purchase both via the Internet and through retail outlets in your very own town?

There are many hundreds of ways to obtain copies of R1 DVD's in the UK and many thousands, probably many hundreds of thousands of copies of all your top titles are exported and sold outside there intended region by retailers in the US, so point your disapproving finger at them not us, your fellow enthusiasts, who simply wish to pay honest, hard earned, decent money (and usually inflated prices) to purchase a product that is being made readily available to us to buy, just like it is to you.

This does of course mean that there are numerous outlets in the US & Canada that have absolutely no problem supplying us with this product.

Now, you can't tell me that in this high tech day and age it is impossible for manufacturers of DVD's in the US to monitor and discover where their product is being distributed to, by whom, and most importantly, how many of their products reach domestic shelves v their known production runs!

I put it to you that in actual fact, they know exactly how many DVD's are sold in this way, and their proven ineptitude or unwillingness to act to resolve this issue reveals their "true" stance, which is to say that in "public" they can hide behind the "Region Coding" smoke screen while in private they can quite happily carry on producing more than enough product to satisfy both your home market and the enormous "Black Market" demand.

This situation is made all the more frustrating by the fact that prior to purchasing this particular title, (and discovering for myself the additional hurdles that had been included to prevent me from watching something that I'd just paid for) absolutely NO MENTION of the DRM aspect of disc 2 had been mentioned in any review or pre-release material from Artisan!

If the picture that I have painted above is in truth the reality of what is happening, to then apply DRM which is tied to the Region 1 coding of this particular release, (and conveniently forget to publicize this fact beforehand) smacks of true exploitation of this "unspoken" element of their INTENDED customer base.

For me to now want to watch the HD version of this title that I have just paid an "inflated" import price for is perfectly normal and, so long as this is to be in the privacy of my own home, wherever in the world that might happen to be, this should be acceptable or at least totally understandable.

As a couple of previous posters have highlighted, the Region coding of DVD's to protect the staggered theatrical release of first run "fresh" to Home theatre titles is perfectly acceptable and totally understandable. (Though I applaud those people who are questioning the validity of this restriction for titles such as "Attack Of The Clones" which received a simultaneous world-wide release!)

BUT! ..........

To Region Code 12 year old movie titles at all is totally OTT!

To then apply further DRM hurdles based on that Region Coding to a HD version of a 12 year old title is totally ridiculous, pure and utter madness!

Adopt a DRM licence protocol by all means, but don't tie it to the mockery of free trade that is Region Coding!

Don't even get me started on the fact that we are all actually paying to beta test the viability of this product for these companies which is THE perfect example of the "contemptuous" attitudes that the studios display towards us their customers!

Oh well, that's me finished......... I feel better now!

If anyone has actually got this far, well done & sorry if offended you. My hope is that my stated views may prompt some further interesting discussion on the points raised.

Best Regards,
KBDVD.

Originally posted by Dick Kalagher
Where do you set this value?

In the CHAP_0.ASX file. You'll have to copy it to the hard drive before you can edit it. Even with this set, I still get a big gap between file changes. I can't tell if it is not really prebuffering or if my P4-2.66Ghz (which is maxed out at 100% CPU usage) just can't keep up. Can anyone with a faster system test this?

As a side note, my CPU is maxed out b/c I'm playing back the video at 1920x1080i on a Radeon 7200. I'm waiting for the hardware assisted wmv decoding cards before I upgrade.

Originally posted by KBDVD
Hi All,

My tupence haypny's worth from the UK.

Thank you KBDVD for you thought out response. Hopefully this will filter back to the parties responsible. It is unfortunate that a loyal fan such as yourself needs to resort to finding means of circumventing the system in order enjoy the privilege of buying and using this product.

KBDVD.... Right on, as we say here state side, and BTW; I have had trouble with the MS demo disc and T2, hell I live here, this is non sense!

Thanks for clearing me up on the number to times this title had been released, I only have one other, the last DVD version, I guess you could buy the D-Theater tape copy and view it in HD, but wonder what the law is on you (for example) buying a JVC 30K and a tape copy of the subject title, all very interesting.

I can watch HDTV almost any night of the week from several different sources, I'm lucky I guess? But trust me I'm NOT trying to rub your nose in it either.

Take care, and thanks for your post and opinion. (read yes I did buy over-sea's HK some DVD of a series of films "SW" not for sale here stateside, mostly due to a very hard headed producer, well you get the idea. right?)

Interesting the RIAA lost a big one in court today (class action), for over charging music CD's, (FUNNY) could be the MPAA may get the idea? Doubt it........

mikey

I think I might've found the source of my problems with interactual, and getting a license either through it or WMP. Interactual is attempting to use my elecard decoder.. is there some way to specify what decoder interactual uses? Through media player, it gives me a prompt asking me to insert the disk, or install interactual's player. Interactual itself just freezes..

This is really annoying. I paid for this thing, and this heavy handed DRM is getting in the way of watching it.

Originally posted by jjarmoc

Here's my experience;
I pop disk 2 in the drive, let it autorun, install Interactual player.. Interactual runs, loads the T2 Extreme Edition skin, and hangs. I usually need to 'end task' to get it to exit.

JJarmoc,

We've seen this issue a few times at SyncCast and here is what usually causes it:

1) User does not have WM9 player and is attempting to play it directly with a WM7 player. The InterActual Player has the code that checks for the WM9 player.

2) User's system clock is off by more than a week, our DRM system will not issue licenses under this situation and we currently do not have an error message for this, the system just hangs.

We do have a FAQ page that has all the latest issues with suggestions and work arounds. You can visit the page here:

http://www.synccast.com/t2 (http://www.synccast.com/t2.)

Just for clarification. It never takes more than 90 seconds for us to deliver a license. We have had monitoring services up and deployed since the release date to check for this.

Unfortunately, the content owner has decided not to issue licenses under the following situation:

-Users from Anonymous Proxy Server
-Users with IP addresses from Outside the US & Canada
-Users without a valid DVD in the Drive
-Users without Windows Media 9 Player
-Users from Proxy Servers from Outsite the US & Canada
-Users with cookies turned off
-Users who decline the EULA
-Users who have rolled back their system clocks
-Users who have a system clock that is off more than 7 days from today’s date and time

Under all other scenarios, you should be able to get a license and play the video within 90 seconds.

On this board, several users did mention they sat for hours waiting for a license. Due to their clocks being rolled back (or any of the above situations), they could have waited years and they still would not have gotten a license. We will add an error message to handle this situation.

Another issue that we addressed on the board is when users have their cookies turned off and the system prompts them to insert a disc. Until the user enables cookies, they will continue to get this error message. The actual error message the user gets should have covered this situation but we failed to make sure InterActual added the necessary text. We apologize for any inconvenience the above is causing.

I hope this helps.

-Ezra

whats the best thing to do for users outside the US?

In my last post, I left off one other situation that will prevent you from getting a license, you must have access rights to change your registry settings.

-Ezra

Originally posted by smallville
whats the best thing to do for users outside the US?

There have been a few posts on this board that address this. I think it will take hours find a Non Anonymous Proxy outsid the US that is not being blocked but there are some still out there.

You can try emailing Artisan to ask them to issue you a license. Their email is, I think, cs@artisanent.net.

Other than that, you're pretty much out of luck.

-Ezra

Ezra -


None of those situations apply in my case. I have WMP9 installed, and set to fetch licenses automatically. My system clock is set for the correct date, and timezone, and is synched to the atomic clock so it can't be off more than a second or two. I had full permissions on the account I'm logged in to, including registry edits. I'm not using a proxy server, and ARIN confirms my IP is registered to Comcast Cable - with a US address. Cookies are enabled, and I've set IE to accept all cookies for the time being.

I believe the problem is that interactual is attempting to use the Elecard decoder, which I have installed on my machine for another application. This decoder does not support CSS. I have other decoders which I usually use for DVD decoding, but I do not see a way within interactual to select which decoder to use, and WMP instructs me to use the interactual player.

Do you have any other ideas, or suggestions on how I can tell interactual to use a different decoder?

edavidson,

Thank you for your post. However, this is simply not correct.

PLease check the monitoring (and you can IM me) for my IP address from friday June 13 2003. You will see it did take 60 minuites to get a license due to so many time-outs.

And yes, my system is as modern as possible (wm9/2.8ghz/XP Pro/WinDVD 4 plat/SDSL 1.5mbit/1GB RAM) etc. No, I use cookies all the time

I just think that when you post to this board you should realize the users here are quite advanced and many are devlopers. MS knows there are problems with this release - head over to the MSDN side and see how many of the devlopers have tons of problems.

The DRM sucks. The server sucks. The player is the biggiest piece of crap anyone has ever used. Hell, it can't even do a filtergraph correctly.

The content is amazing. The DRM is ludicrous.

jjarmoc,

I'm not Ezra, but I've seen a couple of posts that may help. Try the following (I was able to bypass interactual this way and use WM9 instead, maybe that would bypass that filter?).

1. Delete the registry to force dvdrun into getting a new key (#2 in the Ezra's post below):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2304343#post2304343

2. Start at 'a. From a command prompt ... ' in the link below and do steps a thru d:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2284057#post2284057

Good luck!

Originally posted by smallville
whats the best thing to do for users outside the US?

EMIGRATE! ;) :D

Best Regards,
KBDVD.

Originally posted by sjchmura
edavidson,

Thank you for your post. However, this is simply not correct.

PLease check the monitoring (and you can IM me) for my IP address from friday June 13 2003. You will see it did take 60 minuites to get a license due to so many time-outs....

...I just think that when you post to this board you should realize the users here are quite advanced and many are devlopers.

sjchmura,

I'm posting to this board to advise anyone who is having problems with the DRM service we are providing for Artisan. I'm also here because I recognize the users here are advanced users and have a lot to offer.

SyncCast has made mistakes that I admitted in my previous post. We are learning and will continue to improve the process, as well as all the other partners who worked hard on this project; Artisan, Microsoft and InterActual.

This is the first project of this kind, so you guys are providing value feedback that is important to us all. We are listening to you.

A lot of integration from the various partners is required in order to provide the PC experience on the DVD ROM, there are other failure points than just the DRM service. Without knowing when you attempted to get a license, I can't pinpoint what your problem is. Contact me offline to discuss (support@synccast.com). But again, our service has not been down since the launch.

-Ezra

Originally posted by jjarmoc
Ezra -


None of those situations apply in my case...

...I believe the problem is that interactual is attempting to use the Elecard decoder, which I have installed on my machine for another application. This decoder does not support CSS. I have other decoders which I usually use for DVD decoding, but I do not see a way within interactual to select which decoder to use, and WMP instructs me to use the interactual player.


The Terminator DVD utilizes a lot of complex technology. There are a lot of area's people can have problems. The DRM is just one area and most people in your situation (but without the CSS decoder) get a license.

I think MS has done a great job making post that help users get around the Interactual player (and other issues), although most novices will probably have a good experience with the InterActual player.

I think your problem was addressed earlier on the board so I won't add any comments about CSS support.

-Ezra

Originally posted by tj21
So when will the T2 be released in the movie theaters in Europe? Or wait, that has already happened 12 years ago. And when will we see "staggered" T2 HD DVD European release? This does not make any sense to me.

Tomas

Ok, this is my final post for the day.

The DVD region code is also to allow local market DVD manufactures, rental shops, and retail outlets to make money from DVDs marked for their region. (This is why we have PAL and NTSC TVs). When you by a DVD region 1 disc, a US distributor is taking some of the potential profit out of your country. It takes time, just like with movies, to get the DVDs for your region manufactured and distributed. The MPAA's point is still valid for regarding DVD sales.

-Ezra

Originally posted by edavidson
There have been a few posts on this board that address this. I think it will take hours find a Non Anonymous Proxy outsid the US that is not being blocked but there are some still out there.

You can try emailing Artisan to ask them to issue you a license. Their email is, I think, cs@artisanent.net.

Other than that, you're pretty much out of luck.

-Ezra

I wondered why I had no trouble finding a working proxy server when I acquired a license a week or so before the release of T2 Extreme (I picked up a copy early), yet people trying the same thing more recently seem to be having far more trouble. But reading the above suggests that Artisan are blocking proxy servers on an ongoing basis as they come to their attention, which would explain things. Seems they take this region encoding issue very seriously indeed...

Ezra, While it is nice to have a rep from SyncCast here, your comments directly go against what CS@artisan.com have told me directly.

They stated by email that servers have been down and to retry (even when I told them I was not in the US :rolleyes: ) they also told me the servers were not online until June 3rd release date even though I know this to be incorrect.

Personally I do believe your response more than thiers (as they clearly had no clue what they were discussing) but the fact remains that Artisan have not got the DRM element of this release transparent enough.

I think this fits the scheme nicely. I can't even play the first disk on my HTPC :(

http://forum.inmatrix.com/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=;act=ST;f=7;t=1963;st=0

Are we sure this is not discriminating in a legal way ? I mean my money is exactly like US money, all the important dvd vendors in Europe carry T2 Extreme R1 along with thousands of R1 dvds. I think this goes against the free circulation of goods and ideas and it's completely wrong. I'd like some consumer association to look into it.


bye

WMP9 is great. DRM is terrible.

When I played T2 the first time 2 weeks ago, obtaining the license was no problem. Yesterday I wanted to show off this DVD to a friend, but couldn't get past the license acquisition and gave up in frustration.

Instead of us appreciating how great a stride Microsoft is making in media, we ended up bashing the horror the Microsoft is about to unleash upon us. I am a 30 year software veteran, and if I can't figure this out, I shudder to think what an average consumer will have to go through.

Well, unless Microsoft changes direction, I am neither buying nor recommending Microsoft media products. Until yesterday, I was one of the biggest champions.

Originally posted by arungupta
Well, unless Microsoft changes direction, I am neither buying nor recommending Microsoft media products. Until yesterday, I was one of the biggest champions.
Once again, MS is not the one to blame here... blame Artisan !
MS just provides the means to do this, then Artisan decided to use it...

Originally posted by BangoO
Once again, MS is not the one to blame here... blame Artisan !
MS just provides the means to do this, then Artisan decided to use it...

Passing the blame to Artisan doesn't work for me. This was the first real test of Microsoft's DRM technology. Artisan is not a technology company. Microsoft is. The onus was on Microsoft here to demonstrate that DRM works for both studios and consumers.

From what I understand you are having a problem acquiring the license.

Have you read post # 478 ? It is very useful for identifying what your problem may be.

Regards

I did not have any problems to get the license the first time but now after it has expired it seams to be impossible to get a new one or renew the old one. The license pop up just sits there nothing happens. :mad:

Originally posted by PatsT2
From what I understand you are having a problem acquiring the license.

Have you read post # 478 ? It is very useful for identifying what your problem may be.

Regards

I had to renew my license just now and the method described in that post works fine. It bypasses the POS IA player completely.

After 17 pages in this forum and numerous pages in the British AVForums (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80939), I can see a few major conclusions from the T2 Extreme ‘experiment’: The process used to enhance the 12 years old master produced a very positive result for both the standard DVD and the WMV9 release. Microsoft’s WMV9 is capable of delivering HD quality at bit-rates compatible with present DVD standard. However, the hardware requirements for this to work properly are currently very advanced for the mass market. Important issues connected with anamorphic displays and convenient integration with multi-channel audio systems is unresolved. The licensing methodology is total non-starter and is commercially not a viable proposition. No company can offer the level of support activity the present implementation of DRM requires and no consumer is repeatedly going to subject himself/herself to the hustle and humiliation it requires. Most importantly for the film industry: high-definition material does have focused but global appeal. As such future releases should not be geographically focused and instead directed to a global techno-geek market..

Very well put Branxx, hope Microsoft is listening.

jjarmoc,

you could try using the Elecard "setup" program to temporarily de-register the elecard codec.