Hi,

Thanks for all the help. I can play it now.

Check a few scenes only, overall the picture is better than the D-Theater version IMO. The playback interface (Windows Media Player 9 or InterActual Player) sucks though. More later.

regards,

Li On

Wow.. that says a lot, better than the DTheater version. When I get T2Ex, I'll have to compare it vs. Dtheater & Holo3DII+HDAux :D.

Whoo Hoo... So that list I sent helped huh ;) ???

Please see the PM I sent ya...

EDIT :: Just noticed... Your PM Box is full... Drop me a mail will you..

Originally posted by Li On
Check a few scenes only, overall the picture is better than the D-Theater version IMO. The playback interface (Windows Media Player 9 or InterActual Player) sucks though. More later.

Wow! That is different than what I've heard from more than one person who has tried it out. One said it was a little bit below average HBO-HD quality in the one chapter they had tried.

I don't have this disk, but "The Living Sea" from my Athlon 2600+ and Radeon 9500 through RGB to my HT1000 seemed to have better colors, more blockiness but less mosquito noise, and more smearing (bad thing) in one scene, compared to my DVD of the same thing playing from my DVI DVD player to the HT1000. That one didn't give me high hopes for WM9. Definitely not what I'm used to with HD.

Are you watching this on the AE100 or have you gotten a D-ILA yet?

--Darin

I do believe Li On has commented a few times that he thinks the T2 DVHS is poorer than many DVHS titles and most broadcast... Perhaps that is the basis on this discrepancy...

Hi,

Why IMO WM9 T2 looks better than D-Theater T2? Because D-Theater T2 simply looks VERY poor. Now I guess it's due to the source material issue. Looks like T2 can NEVER look good no matter what. Yes, TONS of HBO-HD looks WAY better than the WM9 T2.

Tonight will test more. I got the disc plays at 4am this morning (my time) so it's just my first impression.

regards,

Li On

Hi,

Thanks to DryKid and others hints, this is how I got the WM9 DRM works.

- install Windows Media Player 9
- in WMP9 Option -> Network, select Use Browser Proxy
- in Internet Explorer Tools -> Internet Option -> Connections -> Settings, select Proxy Server and input the address and port number. You can find some US based open proxy servers at http://www.publicproxyservers.com/page1.html

- install the stupid InterActual Player on the T2EX DVD disc2
- use DVD Region Killer or DVDIdle to fix any DVD region issue if the InterAcutal Player won't play the DVD
- select High-Definition T2 in the InterActual Player
- the DRM license box will popup and if everything is fine it will say the license is install ok, if it say region issue for NOT in the Canada or US, try another proxy server from that URL
- then the WM9 T2 should plays in InterActual Player
- quite InterActual Player and use WMP9 to play by directly open the file on the DVD
- I guess you can even copy the WM9 file to HD to play
- once it get the license, you can remove the proxy setting in IE and WMP9

I tried around 10 hours before I got it working. First I stuck on the NOT Canada or US region issue and don't know which open proxy server to use. Then I finally discover I MUST use the InterActual Player to get the license instead of the WMP9...

Anyway, enjoy!

Btw, the license say it will expire on May 27 too. Does the Motown WM9 has a expiration date?

regards,

Li On

Originally posted by Li On
Hi,

I tried around 10 hours before I got it working. First I stuck on the NOT Canada or US region issue and don't know which open proxy server to use. Then I finally discover I MUST use the InterActual Player to get the license instead of the WMP9...

Li On

FWIW acquiring the licence using WMP9 worked here (in fact I watched T2 that way too - couldn't get the stupid Interactual Player to work at all, and I spent enough time trying...)

Hi DryKid,

So we're slightly difference. Before I try the InterActual Player, I tried too many times to get license in WMP9. WMP9 always ask me to insert the DVD. But the DVD is already in the drive. In fact I'm opening the WM9 file on the DVD. I've no idea what and why WMP9 said that stupid thing!

regards,

Li On

Where was 'here' ???

Originally posted by Li On
WMP9 always ask me to insert the DVD. But the DVD is already in the drive.
I don't have T2 yet, but when Motown did this to me, I just ejected the disc and put it back in again. Then it went and got the license and started playing!

I gotta say that I have wondered what percentage of people will actually get these WMV9 videos to play properly. Certainly not a plug and play experience, not to mention the PC spec required for glitch free playback!

Greg

Originally posted by Li On
Btw, the license say it will expire on May 27 too. Does the Motown WM9 has a expiration date?
This is a very important issue... it is specified nowhere that this disc could be limited in time... do they even have the right to do that ??

PS: thx a lot Li On for this "How to use T2" ;)

These licence terms clearly need to be spelt out...

And it must do so on the BOX itself and each internet vendor will need to specify the terms before purchase...

So I buy this disc...
Can I play it in my region...
Can I play it X amount of times...
Can I play it on multiple PC's...
Can I play it next year...

What happens if the license issueing company goes out of biz ??

What happens if my net connection is down when I want to watch it ?? (I am on a weird 2 way Sat connection with uplink... This happens during monsoon season)..

What happens to rental versions...

What happens etc...

Amir ???

I don't have this disk, but "The Living Sea" from my Athlon 2600+ and Radeon 9500 through RGB to my HT1000 seemed to have better colors, more blockiness but less mosquito noise, and more smearing (bad thing) in one scene, compared to my DVD of the same thing playing from my DVI DVD player to the HT1000. That one didn't give me high hopes for WM9. Definitely not what I'm used to with HD.

Darin,

"The Living Seas" is not HD. It even plays back on my 600mhz HP computer. The video stream rate is only about 1000 kb/sec, whereas the high def stuff (BMW clips) is 6000 to 8000kb/sec.

I think the intent of the "Do Amazing Things" disk is more to show off WM9 across a range of old (slow) and new computers.

Ray

Li On, what display device were you using?

Hi Paul,

My dying AE100 and the Mit. 87TXM PC Mon. Will give more comment after tonight viewing...

Will try to try it on a G70 in the weekend.

I'm NOT saying the WM9 T2 looks great for a HDTV picture. Just better than the D-Theater T2 IMO. If anyone thinks the D-Theater T2 looks great, oh well...

regards,

Li On

I thought this has a release date of June 3rd...?

- Rick

Krynos....many stores sell DVDs early. I am trying to find this! Someone PM me where they have seen it.

How are you guys getting T2??? PLease advise???

Just got it today, I used the proxy trick with succes..... I have to say, on my system it simply looks INCREDIBLE IMO, dare I say even better than any transport stream I've seen (that includes those The Fifth Element, Final Fantasy, Titanic and Toy Story 2 clips)... It was completely filmlike, without any compression artefacts, chroma noise, Low level filtering or Edge enhancement..

CPU usage peaked at 70%... not bad at all.
The sound was exactly like on the dvd, no problem there.

Where can this be purchased online? I've checked Amazon, eBay and a few other places I Googled but all saying coming June 3rd.

Didn't know folks could buy T2 already and hence the lateness of reply here :).

At any rate, the time-based license is there to keep folks from borrowing a disc, getting their own permanent copy on HD and then returning it. The current license is for 5 days. But before you panic, let me say that you can get as many licenses as you want as long as you have the disc. So yes, you do need network access but you can keep playing the disc.

We are trying to see if we can get the time extended beyond 5 days but it is ultimately up to Artisan to make that decision.

Finally, let me say that there are some growing pains wrt to this disc. We are learning a lot and have plans for improvements in the future. So keep the comments coming so that we know what to fix.

Thanks,
Amir
Microsoft

Amir, is the Amazing Things DVD working the same way? The verbiage in it talks about a 60 day license, but doesn't say anything about what happens after the initial 60 days...

Thanks

No it doesn't. In the case of "AWE" (Amazing Windows Experience) DVD, we only got the rights for the the HD BMW clip for 60 days (for free) and that is what we are conveying.

Amir
Microsoft

where is T2 in BLUE RAY ??? :D

Thanks for your interest in T2: Extreme DVD and the Windows Media 9 Series High Definition version it contains. It appears some of the discs got out earlier than the June 3rd release date so I wanted to answer some of the questions that have been brought up on this thread.

Disc #1 of this set is a region 1 disc (Canada and the US). The second disc (disc #2) containing the HD Windows Media content will use the user’s IP address to determine his/her location and only issue a license to people who reside in the US or Canada. Currently, the content owner has decided to issue a 5 day timeout license. After the 5 days is up, when the user plays the content a license is automatically renewed as long as disc #2 is in the drive.

The T2 DVD requires the user to have the Interactual player (which hosts the Windows Media Player 9 Series ocx) in the drive before a license will be issued. A user may take disc #2 from one PC to another PC (e.g. home network scenario), but the license will only be issued to PC’s that have disc #2 in the drive.

Please note the minimum CPU requirements and graphics card requirements on the box. Due to the high resolution of the content this DVD will work best on a PC with a 3GHz processor with a 128MB/3D video card. To get a surround sound experience Windows XP (Pro or Home), a 5.1 capable sound card and Windows Media Player 9 Series are required.

LiOn,

Nice review.

Regarding the 3 GHz CPU for playback, could you check your CPU usage and report please?

WM9 audio conversion to SPDIF DD 5.1 by the nforce boards is working properly now using the latest nforce drivers.


Joe

Li ON, JaM and others:

Could you post your PC system specs please? And how T2 WMP9 HD performed on your system?
TIA!

Originally posted by Karnis
Li ON, JaM and others:

Could you post your PC system specs please? And how T2 WMP9 HD performed on your system?
TIA!


You can see system specs in my profile..

It ran perfectly on mine, with CPU usage peaking at 70%

Hi,

Watched most of the WM9 T2 last night till 5am so sorry for the late respond!

The HD T2 actually looks like a decent HD picture! Many bright scenes (desert) cleanly has higher resolution than the D-Theater version. I guess it's both WM9 power and the poor master condition that D-Theater got.

Compression artifacts are very few and far between. Color balance is spot on I guess. Resolution can be better especially in dark scene but I guess it's due to the source master limit. Compared to ALL film source HD shows, this WM9 T2 score OK IMO. Not great but decent.

Tonight will try it on a G70.

Consider the HD T2 total size is only 6.53G as it needs to share room with bonus material on the disc 2. And the encoding is ONLY at 6Mbps and in CBR mode due to the playback power of a slower CPU. If this is the WORSE that WM9 offer on DVD9, maybe the best treated WM9 HD on DVD9 can actually match the best film source D-Theater at 25Mbps MPEG2.

Besides, as the WM9 content is progressive in the source, deinterlace issue is out of the Windows! :)

The 5 days need to renew license is a pain in everyone opinion I guess. Is there any way that can be patched to NOT need a Internet connection after the first live license install? I mean please try to make the license renewal to work with the DVD disc 2 only.

Amir, I'm a believer, My question - what's NEXT? :)

regards,

Li On

PS: my system, P4PE, 2.4B at 2.7G (150x18), 512M DDR333@375, Radeon original 8500 64M, WinXPProSP1, DX9. CPU usage around 60-7x%.

hey lurking msft dudes...I don't really have a big deal about DRM, but I would never tolerate DRM that needs constant call homes. Once is enough. I am hearing about too many activation problems that comes from (potentially) multiple call homes.

thanks

Darius

P.S. I make it a point never to have real media or interactual software on my computer. Use your own ******* software to confirm licenses.

P.S.S. Given all that license mess, I'm thinking...hmmm what are the garuntees I have for satisfaction? Sure you guys are here and you and others can give informal help, but what system is in place for smooth and effective license disentanglement help? I wouldn't think MSFT's methods for businesses with Office/WindowsXP license problems (which I have heard about) would be suitable for consumers?

Oh, and one last thing. Nor will I tolerate situations where I recieve a license for the media and own the storage only, but I (company X says) *actually* only purchased the storage, and they are not liable for replaceing bad storage, or whatever. If I am at risk for those kind of situations, then I will either, crack, find someone to crack, or purchase a cracked version for backup purposes.

Again, I am fine with licenses, but licensing give YOU obligations as well, just like a landowner. I want to be able to purchase these things in secure knowledge that what I purchase will stay purchased unless EXPLICITLY not so.

Hi,

T2 WM9 playback interface sucks, big time.

Windows Media Player 9
- previous chapter jumps only to the movie last chapter!

So the only usable player is the InterActual Player.

NO time search. No fast backward. Fast forward only has speed of around 1.5x I guess. No right click on video to jump to direct chapter.

And the good old layer change delay on the first RSDL T2 DVD is back! And the wait is longer than ever!

The whole movie is in 7 wmv files. Each is around 1G. When ever the playback need to change from 1 file to the other, the screen will go blank for around 8secs! So we have 6 breaks of close to a min blank (black) screen during the whole movie.

Besides, jump between each chapter also takes around 8sec (blank screen) each take. If you want to fool around, prepare to wait in dark!

Btw, someone will ask for subtitle/captioning. Is that possible?

regards,

Li On

Originally posted by Karnis
Li ON, JaM and others:

Could you post your PC system specs please? And how T2 WMP9 HD performed on your system?
TIA!

2.8 GHz P4 here, with ASUS P4S8X, and 512MB DDR 333 RAM, generic GEForce 4 MX 440 card. Playback was smooth 99% of the time (though it got a bit choppy for the last few seconds of each of the seven WM9 parts.)

Originally posted by amirm
Didn't know folks could buy T2 already and hence the lateness of reply here :).

We are trying to see if we can get the time extended beyond 5 days but it is ultimately up to Artisan to make that decision.

Thanks,
Amir
Microsoft

Amir,

Are MS happy with Artisan's checking of network IPs to exclude non-USA / Canada residents, or is this something that you would like to see dropped too? As far as I know there are no plans for a R2 release of this set, so for those of us outside the US, importing this disc is our only chance to see it in HD. (And in the case of Europe, there is no broadcast HDTV or DVHS, so this is our only way of acquiring HD content, which makes the disc even more tempting.)

Thanks for keeping us informed anyway.

Hi,

The other forum has T2:Ultimate vs T2:Extreme DVD screen shoot. We have DVD vs HD-DVD screen shoot here. I don't need to tell you which is which!

The WM9 is a direct overlay capture at 1440x816. No scale no process. Saved in HyperSnap jpg 90% quality.

The DVD is capture in Sonic Player. Crop the black bars in HyperSnap. Saved as uncompressed tif. Rescale to 1440x734 (keep aspect ratio) in IrfanView using best quality. And finally saved in HyperSnap in jpg 90% quality.

It's NOT the same frame but close. Very hard to match the perfect frame in WM9 playback as fine playback control (frame step) is non-existence.

http://202.66.159.76/hdt2.jpg

http://202.66.159.76/sdt2.jpg

regards,

Li On

Hey, something just occurred to me. If Hypersnap can take a perfect capture of 1 frame. And using Hypersnap over and over could take a perfect capture of a series of frames.

Hmmm.:)


Joe

Hi joe,

How to do frame advance in WMP9 or InterActual Player? I don't know. Even if there is a frame step function, I bet it only works on I-frame or some sort.

regards,

Li On

Could someone please confirm the need to install the InterActual player to unlock the disc?

The 5-day limitation on the DRM license is bad enough, but the thought of having that POS on my HTPC is almost enough to say "thanks but no thanks".

"Even if there is a frame step function, I bet it only works on I-frame or some sort."

Automating that part would probably require another 17 year old Scandinavian.

Joe

Hi Karnis,

DryKid said the license installation works on WMP9 alone. In my case it only works in InterActual Player. We need a third opinion. ANd yes I hate the InterActual (is it the same as PC UNFriendly?) as much as the next guy.

You need the InterActual Player to play the movie anyway because chapter seeking is broken in WMP9.

Thanks god I don't use software DVD player nowaday so no one needs to compete with the InterActual Player on my system.

regards,

Li On

Originally posted by Li On


DryKid said the license installation works on WMP9 alone. In my case it only works in InterActual Player. We need a third opinion. ANd yes I hate the InterActual (is it the same as PC UNFriendly?) as much as the next guy.

Li On

Well, I installed the Interactual Player, but I couldn't get it to run without crashing, so in the end I acquired the licence with WMP9. I guess it's possible though that installing (as opposed to running) Interactual Player did something that allowed WMP9 to get the licence, so I couldn't say that it'll definitely work without the Interactual player. But if all you have to do is install it to get the licence, and you can watch the movie with WMP9, then it shouldn't matter too much having it on your hard drive...

Nice screen captures, BTW - thanks :)

Can someone PM me or post where you are able to purchase this???? I would love to watch it this weekend...........

Hi,

Finally finished the whole movie. I'm impressed. The final scenes in the mill factory actually has a wonderful picture. This WM9 smokes the D-Theater tape! It'll kill D-Theater easily with more titles.

Full use of DVD9 (give us 2-discs set if space is not enough), higher bit rate (I'll get a P4 2.4C with HT and overclock to 3.3G if needed!) and VBR.

Amir, next time you see Bill tell him my $$$ is ready! :)

regards,

Li On

Where did you guys buy it? If anyone around DC has it I would appreciate them telling me how they got it.

Members that have it seem to be East Asian based so far... HK / Japan / Etc...

Hi,

Time Zone exists for a reason. Sorry can't resist! :)

regards,

Li On

I wanted to clarify a few things for everyone.

The registry setting that is being set for user experience purposes only and not security. The registry setting lets the player know that a license has been issued and if the user has accepted the EULA (which isn't complete yet).

After you have acquired the license you shouldn't need to be on-line anymore within those 5 days. After the 5 days, you need to put the DVD back into the drive and a new license will automatically be renewed. This policy is something that can be updated in the future.

I noticed some folks have tried disc #2 on P4 2.4, 2.53 and 2.66 GHz machines. Our testing found that lower end machines played the disc fine as long as the user had a good video card 64M or higher and had a fast read DVD-ROM 16X +.

Lastly, Interactual knows about the issues that have been posted on this thread and will be posting a fix soon.

John
Microsoft

So Li On, how much smearing occured? In all the trailers I've seen, there is alot of smearing at 720p.

Colors in WM9 were more intense than the superbowl trailers, but the trailers were sharper. An odd thing, to those that have seen the matrix reloaded, was the pic quality better than the 720p trailers? When I went to the theater, the T3 trailer was much , much sharper thant he film, and judging by certain scenes, the 720p trailer actually seemed sharper to me (most evident in the Morpheus speech distance shot)...

Darius

Hmm I just saw those two DVD vs wmv9 comparison hmm the picture isnt THAT much improved its still blury. i guess the original source is plain and simple crap :/ It's better sure.. but not THAT much better :/ Post some other scenes maybe its just that scene. None the less I can't wait to get myself a copy, I never knew T2: EE was out :/ how about a scene with a face close up.

Can someone that has this disc please state exactly what resolution the WMP9 version is?

Many thanks
Brian

Brian it has been repeatedly stated that the resolutions is 1440x816p anamoprhiclly encoded to provide a 1920x816p output...

As this is a 2.35 film that is equal to a letterboxed 1920x1080p source if it was on a 16:9 screen.

Thanks for explaining this to me. 816p now makes sense.

Has anyone considered the negative effects of displaying this res 1440x816p on a CRT PJ that can only run at 720p?

on the avforums - apparently the theatrical cut is on disk 1 of the extreme edition

Highlight "Sensory Control" and press right 5 times. "The Future is Not Set" will appear. Press Enter and you can play the Theatrical Version!

Any of our american cousins confirms this works?

Two quick questions:
What is being done to make sure that when you need to make a DRM connection you can get one? The Shadows DVD showed that the system did and probably will have glitches.

Why does the T2 data take so much cpu power? I've been encoding OTA HD @ 1280x720 90% quality WM9 and the files play fine over the network (wired) with a 1.8 gHZ laptop. The WM9 playback is so good that I've been pitching the original HD files ;-)

When playing this on TV what have you guys run it at, 720p how about 1080i

Originally posted by gigatron
When playing this on TV what have you guys run it at, 720p how about 1080i

On my CRT Sony XBR set, I ran it at 1080i and it worked just fine. But if you have a fixed panel progressive display device such as DLP/LCD, you are probably better off running at the native resolution of the panel (i.e. 720p for most DLPs).

Amir
Microsoft

Can someone please PM me if you have found this in Dallas? I have checked a couple Trashmarts but no luck... I really want to watch it in HD!

Thanks for all the good feedback on this thread. However, I must chip in with how annoying it is that the PC that is playing this disk needs an Internet connection, I have just finished building my home theatre room and now look like I'm going to need to drag another cat5 cable through for a net connection. I'm so close to just saying sod it with the whole Microsoft HD-DVD thing. I can appreciate the need to try and combat the whole issue of piracy, but surely there must be a better way. The fact that many HTPCs are, like mine configured to run the bare minimal services in order to devote as much processing power to scaling, running ffdshow and aiding stability that having to enable all the networking stuff is an inconvenience.

feel better after getting that off my chest, thanks for listening!
Ian

Hi,

Okay, I'll tolerate the DRM stuff if Microsoft gives us MORE titles with even better quality. Fair enough, Amir? :)

I hope some of the InterActual playback interface issues can be resolved when the T2: Extreme meets the official release day. Btw, any progress on the ZoomPlayer and DRM?

And where is that magic box to convert WMA to DD/DTS?

regards,

Li On

Originally posted by VikingBoy
... and now look like I'm going to need to drag another cat5 cable through for a net connection.

Might we suggest 802.11b wireless net connections or equivalent. They are practically giving them away these days.

Originally posted by am1001
on the avforums - apparently the theatrical cut is on disk 1 of the extreme edition

Highlight "Sensory Control" and press right 5 times. "The Future is Not Set" will appear. Press Enter and you can play the Theatrical Version!

Any of our american cousins confirms this works?

Yes it works..

You did see the post earlier in thread by jamoka that the latest nforce drivers will convert WMA 5.1 to DD. So right now the only magic box is a nforce board, at least it exists :)

Justin

Originally posted by Li On
Hi,

Okay, I'll tolerate the DRM stuff if Microsoft gives us MORE titles with even better quality. Fair enough, Amir? :)

I hope some of the InterActual playback interface issues can be resolved when the T2: Extreme meets the official release day. Btw, any progress on the ZoomPlayer and DRM?

And where is that magic box to convert WMA to DD/DTS?

regards,

Li On

I have my HTPC hooked up via wireless...works perfect! I paid a whole $40 for BOTH the router (base station) and USB (remote).

Worth it not having to run wire.

The connection to the net isn't so much as the physical problem, I was trying to keep my HTPC as simple as possible. The added complexity of drivers, firewalls etc will only complicate an already complicated thing in the first place. At least it is if you want a 'set top box' kind of HTPC.
If its the only way then I may have to swallow the medicine as horrible as it is.

Probably a stupid request but, Could someone that has the disc make an .ISO of it and see if it still works in aquiring the license etc. I just finished up building my media server that has all my DVD's in .iso format as well as my .ts files. It is going to suck if I have to go back to putting the DVD in the drive everytime I want to watch something after experiencing the convience of having everything available with the press of a button.

Hi,

Just watched the WM9 T2 on a friend's best tweaked Sony G70 CRT projector. Output resolution is 1080i. Picture quality is very good indeed. We both agree it really looks like HDTV.

1 set more screenshot.

http://202.66.159.76/hdt22.jpg

http://202.66.159.76/sdt22.jpg

The difference may seems subtle at the still but in live the overall impact is much bigger. On the other hand, the DVD transfer is excellent too.

regards,

Li On

Easier to spot the difference on the first set I think, but then again I'm viewing this on a LCD monitor (1280x1024).

Someone mentioned that dvdstrax.com already is shipping this disc (a scandinavian webshop). Can our danish friend confirm this?

Li On, you did not mention if FFDshow was being used in the DVD comparison, I assume it was not.

If FFDshow was used, it may be all but equal to the HD version?

Is it possible to transcode the T2 wmv files to a res that matches your display, eg 1280*720? The result would still be higher res than DVD, and hopefully play better on a slower machine.


Update: I guess it's not possible then.

Li On,

Thanks for the shots. One thing puzzles me though:

image #1 looks stretched (vertically) vs. #2. Not sure which one has the correct ratio. Could T2 be a little stretched with WM9? I'd be surprised...

Thanks.

Ycery.

You guys realize Artisan is up for sale? I hope the new owner wants us to have the WM9 version. Sigh...

Wow - Linda looks really hot! Whatever happened to her.

It will be fun to watch this again - its been several years. I remember when it came out. I had been living in Europe for the year, and came back to the states when it just hit the theaters. I didn't know anything about the storyline . . . . . it was an awesome first 20 minutes.

Thanks for the shots Li On.

Kelly

Is it me or am I having a hard time telling the difference? Even the color differences seem muted?. Hey Li On, could you post another pair that isn't a close up? Doesn't have to be here, of course...

Darius

Hi,

1 more set screenshots.

http://202.66.159.76/hdt25.jpg

http://202.66.159.76/sdt25.jpg

The DVD really looks excellent. With the best deinterlace/scaling process, I think the PQ can come very close to the D-Theater tape. Of course the WM9 pulls away further!

regards,

Li On

Official MSFTies:

Once I have the license, can I play in Windows XP Media Center Edition? It sure would be a nice feature of the next WMP and MCE versions to support acquiring the licenses and playing the 1GB files without break and with chapter and transport controls. After switching to MCE--I find I'm able to get a better picture for DVDs than directly in nvDVD and much better wife acceptance.

Wow this last shot really show more details on the WMV9. It was less obvious with the other. Can't wait to try it on my front PJ.... Aaaaaaahhh geek lust :) :) ...

Originally posted by xkode2002
Official MSFTies:

Once I have the license, can I play in Windows XP Media Center Edition? It sure would be a nice feature of the next WMP and MCE versions to support acquiring the licenses and playing the 1GB files without break and with chapter and transport controls. After switching to MCE--I find I'm able to get a better picture for DVDs than directly in nvDVD and much better wife acceptance.

It should work fine in MCE. But let me have someone double-check this.

Amir
Microsoft

??? Did he just say that he gets better video quality in the windows media center edition of windows in nvdvd? Like overall? Hmm? I'm lost. Thats interesting. Tell me more. Did he just use a mce microsoft dvd codec which is better then ndvd. What about WinDVD and sonic? I use the latest (unofficial too) windvd I believe its better then sonic.

Hi

Is there any way for us in Europe to play WM9 T2, I have just ordered the disk, and now I read that I can't play the WM9 copy of the movie. That is not fair, this should have been Europe's first HD movie experience.

COME ON MICROSOFT.

Best Regards

Chewie1

@ chewie1
You can play T2 HD in Europe, read the first page of this thread. I tried it yesterday evening, it ran or let's say it worked, my PC is only an 1800 Athlon. So is my HTPC and it doesn't have net access :mad: (yet;) )

Hi Lefreck


Thank you very much, now I can look forward to the weekend where T2 should have arrived.

Best Regards

Chewie1

Originally posted by gigatron
??? Did he just say that he gets better video quality in the windows media center edition of windows in nvdvd? Like overall? Hmm? I'm lost. Thats interesting. Tell me more. Did he just use a mce microsoft dvd codec which is better then ndvd. What about WinDVD and sonic? I use the latest (unofficial too) windvd I believe its better then sonic.

I get better PQ out of MCE when using the nvDVD codec and MCE as the player. I don't think MSFT has a DVD codec. If you A/B them, you'll see the difference. nvDVD (and WinDVD and PowerDVD for that matter) "amp up" the contrast and mess with the colorspace even in their "default" mode to make DVDs "pop" better on computer monitors. At first I thought MCE was just producing a washed out looking image but then I took the time to tweak it and I realized that this "amping up" makes you lose detail. After spending several evenings calibrating playback to my DLP front projection system, I realized that the advice I got was right.

Don't get me wrong--I prefer the nvDVD codec over the others. I just don't use their player.

This really deserves its own thread, because it has nothing to do with T2 Extreme.

I got i today here in Sweden. But I do have some problems getting it to accept the licence. I'll try some more using the instructions by Li On. Stupid region restrictions! I got the disc only to watch the HD version. :(

Ok, update: It now worked. I did step for step as said, and the licence was aquired.

And I think the thing to get the license working in Windows Media Player is to open one of the ASX files instead of the WMV files. I first opened the first WMV file, and it stopped working telling to install the Interactual player. But doubleklicking the first ASX file got it working for me.

I noticed that there was a break on about 2 seconds before continuing on the next WMV file. I think this stuff need to be sorted out before the format can become popular. But coming hardware players may fix it already?

The quality was great. But as Li On's images show, its not that huge difference against a scaled up DVD image. But that is why HTPC rules. Its really good in up-scaling :)

Hi Eklund,

Nice to see more comment coming.

The DVD PQ is at the format BEST offer and the WM9 PQ is at the format WORSE offer. The difference should be bigger in coming titles (if any!).

regards,

Li On

just a quick note on the Media Center Edition (MCE) experience.

The T2 DVD will work on MCE. It works better if you are in the 2 foot experience - its the same experience you would find on XP.

When the Media Center UI is running, the interactual player will load in the back ground and wait to acquire a license and play until the user has chosen the interactual experience (minimize the MCE UI and choose to play disc 2).

John
Microsoft

The problem with the picture quality is 24 fps FILM. Die FILM Die!!!! I can't wait until HD Video is used instead of FILM to HD transfers. I realized how much I hated the film look from the first moment I saw how good HD Video looks like (like you see on Discovery HD, PBS HD, or HDNet).

With the awful film source, the untrained eye (average viewers outside of us in this forum) has a real hard time telling the difference between Gladiator HD on ABC 720p and my DVD. I know, because I've done blind tests with about 6 people, and half choose the Anamorphic DVD over the ABC 720p broadcast as the one with "better quality". There is no such confusion when it comes to HD Video vs DVD Video.

I dont understand, how is it better? I use winxp pro with zoomplayer and windvd (graphs screwed up cant get it to work), and im quite satisfied with it all but.. hmm :/

Also, somehow I don't think the stillpictures does it full justice. It does look better at normal playing. But as you Mark said, we need an even better source! :)

Btw, I took some pictures and put them into a selfextracting RAR if you want to check more images. I didn't scale it, its just dumps in BMP format. (Used a 30-day demo of http://www.hypersnap.com to take the pics, just activate the overlay screenshot function in the menu first). I did a ZIP also, but it was more than double the RAR-archive in size! Put it in SFX RAR if somebody hasn't got the 3+ RAR version. But they have freeware UNRAR on their site http://www.rarsoft.com If you are uneasy about downloading EXE files, you can just unpack it with RAR or UNRAR and not run it.

Here it is, 3.4MB in size (http://www.pantang.com/stuff/t2_comp.exe)

Eklund

Excellent comparison shots - many thanks for your efforts!

I just order the disc. My PC at home doesn't have any Net access. Are there any way I can make it worked with out Internet connection?

No it needs a network connection to aquire the license...

Also unless you are comfortable at reconfigureing to make it appear like you are inside N America (using a N American IP address) you wont gain the license...

Well, I finally got the license for "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" today when using an US proxy address in my internet connection settings.

So, all of you Europeans outthere, get your hands on those Hi-Def content DVDs... they play fine outside the US/Canada. Just follow Li On's instructions and 5 minutes max. is all it takes... ;)

Waiting for T2 EX now...

Certified D

Li On and all who are running the WM9 version: What are your powerstrip settings/desktop resolution when displaying it? I have my HTPC running to a Mits RPTV. What do yuo suggest I use when I get it?
Thanks
FREAK!

The highest square pixel resolution that your display comfortable handles...

That is nearly the same thing as I would recommend at any time apart from some of the non square pixel rez's.

I run at a desktop resolution of 1280x960 so when viewing my image was scaled down. But as it is a overlay that is taken as screendump, hypersnap takes the full resolution of 1440x816p. My old projector is 800x600 so I don't think it does the WM version full justice. :)

Metallicafreak or anyone else,

I should be receiving my T2 later this week. Can you please let me know what powerstrip setting would work best for me, using:

Gf4Ti4200
Mitsubishi 65" 65907 TV.

Thanks again everyone. I want to make sure I get the most out of this DVD. I think right now my settings are set to 940x540p.

Gruson:

Unfortunately, since you're using nVidia card, you can't get the full range of interlaced video. If you can get the video to work using an overlay that supports nonsquare pixels (don't know if they've taken care of that yet at Microsoft), I'd say the best you could use would be 1920x540p. That would actually look quite nice. But if you're stuck with square pixels (which I think you are if you're using WMP9), then you're gonna have to stick with 960x540


Dan

One of the reasons I got my HTPC was to be able to play back stuff like this. But it's located in my living room where there is no internet access. So that means no T2 HD. To be honest, I feel I've been screwed. The 'phone home' feature is absolutely not needed, and only sabotages my abilities to enjoy the product I've paid for. Is this the way home entertainment is gonna work in the future? Phone up some company and let them know everything there is to know before you can watch what you bought with your own money? I don't know who to blame, but I'm quite furious whoever person is behind this.

Hey mad_arab, did you ever consider getting a wireless network? My cousin has an HTPC in his living room and he has a wireless connection on it if he needs it. I don't know what your situation is, just an option.

What kind of license is recieved? I'm sure we could get around this ;) I have yet to get the t2 extereme edition discs so i dunno.. perhaps at least freezing the license... so it doesnt change.. or im assuming inside the license is the expiry date.. but freezing time on the computer.. maybe.. there is a way heh it was the old way of preventing shareware programs from expiring.. freezing the time on the computer lol.. Uhm.. i doubt that would work for something this 'modern'.. ah well.

FDM80: thanks for the suggestion, but the only use i'd have for a wireless network is that license. And thats too high a price to pay for one movie at the moment...

Do we need to connect and acquire the license every time we want to see the movie or just the first time?

Can we copy the content to hard disk and play from it ?

Thanks in advance.

Teerayuth

The license expires after 5 days, but you can renew it as many times as you want (Internet connection required). Within this period of time, you can watch the movie as many times as you like.
However, at this moment and with the "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" disc, playback requires the DVD in the drive whenever you wish to watch the Hi-Def content... there's been hacks for this for PC CD-ROMs, maybe someone knows a way around this also for DVD-ROMs. I don't... ;)

FYI:
I have copied the "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" WMP9 files to the hard drive and can view them anytime without the DVD in the tray.

The HD T2 actually looks like a decent HD picture! Many bright scenes (desert) cleanly has higher resolution than the D-Theater version. I guess it's both WM9 power and the poor master condition that D-Theater got.


Just want to make sure everyone's aware that Artisan did a bran-new film-tape transfer for this new DVD WM9 edition. The former UE DVD and D-VHS are from the older 1080P master which was from the film-tape transfer a few years back and shoddy work at best.

In many respects, I'd even imagine the new SD-DVD might look better than the old D-VHS! (like no EE).

Just wanted to make sure everyone's aware this isn't telling us how WM9 looks compared to D-VHS MPEG2...it's apples/oranges bcs the two sources used entirely different film-tape transfers/masters.

What should look *really* good is a new D-VHS from the new transfer-1080P master!!!

-dave

There have been a few comments saying that this release is very nice, but not as good as it could be due to the fact that the source is film and that the telecline process is not perfect.

When do you think we can expect to see a film filmed entirely digitally released in HD (encoded directly from the digital source)?

Originally posted by DaViD Boulet
Just want to make sure everyone's aware that Artisan did a bran-new film-tape transfer for this new DVD WM9 edition. The former UE DVD and D-VHS are from the older 1080P master which was from the film-tape transfer a few years back and shoddy work at best.

In many respects, I'd even imagine the new SD-DVD might look better than the old D-VHS! (like no EE).

Just wanted to make sure everyone's aware this isn't telling us how WM9 looks compared to D-VHS MPEG2...it's apples/oranges bcs the two sources used entirely different film-tape transfers/masters.

What should look *really* good is a new D-VHS from the new transfer-1080P master!!!

-dave

Dave, a new D-vhs transfer still wouldnt be apples to apples due to the WM9 version not having the luxury of having the whole disk to work with and CBR vs. VBR was used. If these aspects were to change, then we could have a real apples to apples comparison.

Then when one takes into account there is no filtering necessary for 1080p, the true champion should be crowned:)

hgodwin

Do we know if we have any more releases similar to this one on the horizon? If there are going to be STB DVD players coming out that support WM9, I'd imagine that there's supposed to be at least a trickle of material, similar to D-VHS. Anyone have any gossip?

Dan

Has anyone figures out how to play this DVD on displays with non-square pixels, e.g. some plasma screens and projectors with anamorphic lenses?

Well I have not tried it yet but JRivers media centre does have an anamorphic stretch and they claim WMP9 DRM is now working (only in the most recent builds) but... Its a resource hog (being an all in one swiss army knife of media players) and so I am not getting smooth playback with 720p on my 2.4...

If you have a 3Ghz machine you may be able to get smooth playback and then use the anamorphic stretch....

The sooner MS clears up this red tape with blight the better IMHO...

I am getting smooth playback on my 3.0C GHz P4 on Asus P4C800.

I also notice that Interactual player requires Cineplayer to installed before it can play. The overall complexity of DRM is way beyond general public PC awareness. I think as a business model this has not chance of becoming mass product.

I am puzzled as to why the license can be obtained only by using (and installing) InterActual player (check their privacy tab on the configuration page!).

The PQ does make real difference only to those with large projection systems. In the long run this is the only market (as represented by members of VASForum) that would put up with DRM in order to get better picture. No being able to play via other, more suitable, software players, lack of anamorphic support and requirement for analogue audio out, has already consigned this fine attemt to the novelty section on my DVD rack.

I would like to see Finding Nemo or Star Wars Episode 3 in WM9 format, directly from the digital source.

I can't play the T3 version on my HTPC at the moment, and I am loathe to upgrade it for just one film. However, if they bring out more titles in this, I might just. They will have to sort out the licence system first though, being in the UK it took me a while to get a licence to work.

It's the only way us brits can realistically get Hi-Def at the moment.

"America RULEZ"

I don't think we are going to see many more titles. MS has demonstrated technology works, and few highly technical people with specific hardware setups were able to enjoy this release beyond what an ordinary DVD would make possible.

In this form this is commercial non-starter especially if market is only limited to Region 1 early adopters.

Simple question: how many of R1 buyers of this disk were able to listed to high quality 5.1 sound?

In my case I saw the picture on specific HTPC I recently built, recorded that the PQ is improved, but then went on watching the disk 1 DVD on my main system.

I have significant and very capable home theatre setup, but I am still unable to enjoy the WM9 release in full. I would estimate that globally less than 200 person (and most of them are in this forum) where able to see this in full glory. No commercial enterprise can survive on such a specialised market by selling a disk @ $20 a piece.

So I let "America RULEZ" with pleasure.

I still don't have the disk but.. has anyone tried dvd idle pro or dvd region free (I use that) to bypass region protection? I am assuming the region protection, macrovision, etc... from dvds is removed by virtualyl creating a custom ifo (thats what region free does i think) and not using the default of the dvd.. if its like that well then the wmv9 may not work.. but i dunno if it uses a different method.. Heh what's the dvd structure of the HD wmv9 disc

Are any of Microsoft's demo downloadable HD videos roughly equivalent to T2's requirements? I would like to test my system's performance before getting the DVD. Also, my system's just an Athlon 2000+ w/Radeon 8500, do you think upgrading my video card to a Radeon 9700/9800 can make up for CPU deficiencies? It's a lot less work to install a new video card than a new CPU (and I don't really like upgrading the CPU by only a few hundred MHz, while that would be a major graphics card upgrade).

I don't have the T2 disk yet so I could be totally off but, I would imagine if you can play the 1080p Coral demo you should be able to play the T2 disk.

Well, yeah, but that one's overkill, it's true 1080p isn't it, not 1440x868? I want something equivalent to T2, not harder.

Well my understanding is that the T2 clips is anamorphic and comes out to 1920x1080p with an equivilent aspect ratio of 2.35:1. So I think the requirements should be pretty similar.

But it isn't, T2 is 1440x868, the player scales 1440 to the full 1920, and the 868 is because the ratio isn't a perfect 16:9. It'd take a lot less of a computer to decompress 1440x868 than 1920x1080. Also, the bit-rate of the two might be different, and they might be encoded differently.

Which ATI card should I buy instead of using my Nvidia Ti4200?

I have a 9700 Pro in my main "gaming" box but don't really want to take it out.

I assume the 9700 Pro would be overkill anyway, since CPU power is what really drives viewing HD....right?

Should a 9500 or 9700 (128 Mb) be sufficient?

How is the HD WM9 T2 quality compare to a film encoded by us at 1080p WM9 ? My question is can we reach this or better quality on encoding a (any movie) movie at 1080p from HD-HBO ? Lets say i record a film from HBo and Showtime at 1080i.Deinterlcace it and encode it with WM9...can i get this quality or better ?
Thanks

First I think the Bitrate is what is going to be the deciding factor in playback requirements not necesarily resolution (though rez effects bitrate)... Amir has stated that if you can play the Step into liquid smoothly (theres a few VBR spikes in that) then you should be able to play T2...

I would also say that unless you really want to upgrade right now you may be better served by waiting for WMP9 assisted GFX cards... I have no way of knowing how far down the pike these may be but they should seriously lower CPU requirements...

OK so how is everyone getting the HD version to play in WMP ???

I have it running in InterActual (urgh) after much hassle.... Anyway even now with the licence obtained I cant get it to run in WMP direct...

If I navigate the menus it still comes to the screen telling me to run it in interactual... Looking in various directories on the DVD and I cant see the main one. Certainly its not in the VIDEO_TS folder in any obvious way... So opening the files direct seems out and by using the menu system I seem locked into IA player... I have some stutters on my desktop setup which is what I am using to evaluate for now...

After having someone send me one I have now ended up with a spare... Mail me if you want it...

I am able to run on my test system from HD (after initially going thrugh InterActual route to get license).

I would really like to know how many of us managed to get this playing in their main theatre with both video and audio at maximum quality (i.e. getting the picture properly through anamorphic lens and having all six channels routed to the main audio).

Unless I missed something I don't think anyone has!

No the anamorphic lens (needed aspect ratio control) issue is the only hold back for me though...

This is going to sound dumb but which file did you copy over ?? Is it hidden or what ???

The InterActual player is truly horrible...

The picture quality is really good though... Not having HD makes this the first time I have been able to enjoy a HD feature... The difference is not subtle.. The posted screen captures do not do it justice...

Files are burried on [Disc 2]:\common\win\lang\en\t2x\esource\*.wmv

I've been running some tests with the T2 HD WM9 file, and would like to share them with everyone. It's certainly encouraging to see more productions being released in this way!

On a dual 3.06 GHz Xeon HP workstation, with hyperthreading on, CPU usage (as reported in the Windows Task Manager Performance tab) starts out at about 35%. Over the course of 2-3 minutes, more and more RAM is assigned to the task, until all available free RAM (1 gigabyte) is used up. At that moment, CPU usage drops to 18% and stays there.

With hyperthreading off, CPU usage is about 70%, then drops to 35%, but with about 2/3 as much memory being assigned.

Now, in the hyperthreading environment, the CPU usage figures might require some interpretation, but I thought that the memory usage phenomenon was interesting.

Nicholas,

Thanks for the tests. But I can't seem to repro this on any machine in my office for the RAM usage. For example, on one of my machines (3.06Ghz with hyperthreading), the RAM usage is around 200MB. It then becomes 250MB after the video starts, then stays there (with a small fluctuation). This machine has 512MB RAM. We will try on more machines and see if we can repro this.

And with regard to the factors that determine the playback CPU requirements, there are surely many factors. Frame size/resolution, frame rate, peak bitrate, content difficulty (which in some sense is related to peak bitrate), the profile used to encode (simple vs. main vs. complex), CBR vs. VBR, and average bitrate are all important factors. And it is indeed the case that if we consider all the factors, the playback requirement for the Liquid clip (1280x720x24p) turns out to be even higher than T2 (1440x816x24p).

Thanks,

Ming
Microsoft

Hi,

Maybe this is a silly question, but can this disk be played with an Xcard? This card has hardware mpeg-4 decoding and does support HD resolutions.

Erwin

Hi Ming,

I have one gigabyte memory, and I believe that MediaPlayer will take up to about 750 megabytes if it's available. On your machine, it could be that 250 megabytes is about all that it can get. It was really interesting, though, to see the high CPU usage until the application apparently got all the RAM it needed, and then the usage drops in half.

By the way, could you contact me directly at nbedworth@hawaii.rr.com ? Or you can turn on private messaging in your user profile and I'll send you a note there.

Nick

Originally posted by mingcl


if we consider all the factors, the playback requirement for the Liquid clip (1280x720x24p) turns out to be even higher than T2 (1440x816x24p).

Thanks,

Ming
Microsoft


the Liquid video is 30 fps..

Hi Nicholas,

I have turned on private messaging. Look forward to receiving the note from you.

The frame rate for the Liquid clip is 24fps, not 30fps (unless you have a different version than mine:) ) When you look at the stats in the player, you might want to ignore the "frame rate" field since the users can set any arbitrary number at the encoder (which corresponds to this field). The actual rate is the one for the true frame rate.

Thanks,

Ming
Microsoft

Good News....

Got the T2 Extreme Disc yesterday 2nd of June. Took about 2 hours worth of trying proxy servers but finally got the licence. Copied the files on to my HD and played with WMP 9 from there. After shutting down all background tasks like antivirus and firewall etc. It played flawlessly. Have not seen the actual DVD (Disc 1) yet. But the Hi Def is great to see for people like me who live outside the states and have otherwise no access to HiDef content yet.

I am running a P4 2.0a gig with 512 MB ram and ATI 9700 Pro connected to Sharp 9000 Prj.
Was worried about the CPU being able to handle the playback. But happy to report it came through, even though it was constant at 100% usage. May be if I watch the movie everynight it would fry the cpu and then i could upgrade....we live in hope.

This is not an MPEG4 item so I doubt the XCard will have any effect....

Thanks for the file location... Dont know how I missed that as I thought I checked every folder to its final branch...

Now have it working in WMP9 (better at least) instead of IA player...

if this is what can be done with 6.5GB... I am very impressed... I posted some impressions in the HD-DVD thread in the digital projector forum that I will paste here later... In short though I have not had access to any HD so I am a novice at rating it... Nick, what do you think of this compared to broadcast and DVHS content ??

Personally with only a limited frame of reference... I love it !!!!

Ok, I am getting an error that says
"Playback failed due to an error with the audio subsystem. Please ensure the sound card is properly installed or close any applications that may use the sound card."

There is nothing wrong with my sound card and no other applications using it are running. Trying to play the files in WMP9 only brings up another Interactual box telling me to insert the DVD in the drive. The license has been acquired.

I knew that the POS Interactual player was trouble & this proves it. I went to the online & help & it said to uninstall-reinstall Interactual, which I did with no luck. Then it listed some garbage about reinstalling DX, or the sound card drivers....sorry, no way. Everything in my system works fine.

This is absoluetly a deal killer for me. Nothing should be this hard.

"This is absolutely a deal killer for me. Nothing should be this hard."

I absolutely agree, and our computer literacy is well above the average. Thre is no way this can be sold to general public.

I just tested the 2nd disc in the Sonic CP 1.5 player and it plays fine, although I cannot access the HD content, again, there is nothing wrong with my system. Ran all DX9 test for Direct Sound and all tests pass.

I am not happy at all.

EDIT:
OK, once I uninstalled the POS Interactual player AND removed the registry entries, then I was able to acquire the licence and start playback, but it was very choppy playing from the DVD drive, I am now copying the files to the HD and we'll see what happens.
I have a P4 2GHz w/ Radeon 8500pro.

You wont get any playback on any DVD player only WMP9 or another app that uses the WMP dependancies / DRM...

You have got the license I take it ???

If so access the file directly in WMP at the location listed a few posts back... If WMP9 audio was fine it should be OK.. Forget the interActual player totally... Once the license is there drop it onto HD...

Who figured it would be a good idea to tie this release to that awful experience... For a start all the buttons keep coming up as broken image links... it looks like a total joke and chokes on chapter changes...

Someone should look at utilizing 'Zoom' technology in these players...

Yes I have the license and started getting playback in WMP9 from the DVD drive.

My point in starting disc 2 with Sonic was that the Interactual player is a flat out POS and is wrong about that error.

It wasn't until I deleted the registry keys that I could acquire the license, because the audio error was preventing the disc from playing initially.

BTW... For overseas (non USA) users you dont need to set the proxy in WMP9 if you use IA player to get the license... I assume (will check in 6 days when I need to renew)... You only need change your network settings in internet options... I am assuming that WMP9 will get the license too but dont yet know if I can simply tell WMP9 to use default proxy and change proxy in one place (default net settings)... Will find out in 5 more days...

Also (this took a lot of figuring out) Dont use an anon proxy (clue .EDU's are good) as they are immediately denied... You need a non transparent (I think) not anonamous US based open proxy... Lots failed for me... Other users sounded like they hit on one first time but it took me a good 20 or so at least...

Get licence once... Good to go...

Once the license is gained with the InterActual POS player... You can ditch it and use WMP9 as normal...

As a side note MS apparently did not want Artisan to do this due to knowing the issues it would create... The thing with DRM though is its down to the content owner to choose what access they are giving... Without this info on the box or presented by the seller it is a total mess though and online distributors are going to have to learn to list every detail about the DRM prior to sale...

I have mailed Artisan on the customer support email days ago... No response... Disgusting...

One comical point... When you do get acknowledged it comes up with a window that says approx 'to play this content you must agree to the EULA' with a button that says 'Agree'...

No Dont agree.. Not even a listing of the EULA... No nothing... Just press this button or dont watch.. How can I agree to a deal I dont know... Did I agree to sign over my entire worldly goods to Artisan for one 7 day playback license ??? Who knows !!!

Helpful links...

http://whatismyip.com
http://visualroute.visualware.com/

Unplayable on my P4, 2GHz, 400FSB, PC 133 256MB RAM system. Lots of stutters and jerky video. CPU spiked at close to 100%.

I wish I could try with another player besides WMP9 for playback.

Oh well, at least the DVD remaster looks better than the previous version.

My P2.2 strains in a couple of spots but is playable but not in a 'theater' setting... My P2.4 seems OK testing the same spots but have not done a full viewing...

Well, this has been a totally un-user-friendly experience so far. I've been messing with this for a couple hours now.

I picked up the T2 disc at Best Buy this afternoon, in a nice steel box. The cashier commented that it stuck to the demag gadget at the counter as I checked out.

The only machine I have with any possibility of playing this was my P4 development machine. But that had a debug version of the Microsoft DXSDK on it that kept giving assert failure messages when I tried to run the disk.

I removed that and then the Interactual player kept trying to use the Xmuxer demux for some reason.

I removed that too and installed DX 9.0a just to get new non-debug version of all the directx dll's.

I've now installed and removed the POS (credit Karnis) Interactual player about a dozen times, including deleting any registry entries that mention that name.

The Interactual player will come up and let me click play but then it just sits there with a black screen. If I try WMP then it tells me I have a wrong password.

I think I will continue to avoid all DRM materials. :(

Anybody have any suggestions?

- Tom

Anyone getting the "CSS error message". The help file says they don't know what causes it and to try reinstalling. It doesn't help.

Originally posted by Dick Kalagher
Anyone getting the "CSS error message". The help file says they don't know what causes it and to try reinstalling. It doesn't help.

Yup :(

Thing is CSS has to do with the dvd player using a key to unlock the dvd content. My other software dvd players (windvd, powerdvd) play the thing right away, no problem.

I also get a "CSS error message" after the interactual player is installed and tries to run the content. I have had no luck getting the license. When I try directly from WMP it asks me to insert the DVD (which is already loaded) - I have tried to eject and insert it again at this time but does not help. Drat! Any ideas?

Brian

I've tweaked my system a bit to improve performance enough where I feel I can make a qualified comment about the picture quality.

IMHO it is impressive, when you consider the relatively low bit rate. However, compared to the better & best HD transfers I've seen to date, on HBO-HD, HD-Net and OTA (Sundays' "A Time To Kill", for example) it lacks the finest detail and 3D-quality that really makes you jump up and take notice. It has an ever-so-slightly soft quality that keeps it from assuming WOW status. The lack of detail in flesh and skin tones is particularly noticeable. Details such as skin lines, pores, etc just aren't there like I've seen with higher bit rate HD material. I was viewing at a resolution of 1776x1000i. Maybe MS can get away with this on 15-21" PC monitors (I also checked it on a 17" LCD, where the limitation were not as glaring) but blown up to 55" on my Mits HDTV, the drawbacks seemed obvious to me.

Taken as a purely technical exercise T2 WMP HD is pretty cool, and shows some promise. Maybe if/when WMV gets support for HW acceleration they can up the bit rate a bit and bring back some of the fine detail, without the need for such a super high-end PCs.

From a consumer POV however, the exercise of just trying to get the disc to play was a disaster. The Interactual player must die, die, die, with "extreme prejudice", please. No one likes it, no one wants it, it is a cancer on the whole experiment. In fact, I venture to guess if I could use another player other than WMP9 with its' bloatware filters like the video/color controls (which suck up even more needed CPU power), performance would improve even more....it certainly did with every other WMV-HD clip I tried.

Oh and BTW....the audio sucks. I found the volume to be too low, dynamics were flat, and overall quality mediocre. This is on an M-Audio DeltaDio connected to a Yamaha RX-V1 via SP/DIF so I only get DPL. Again, maybe in a dorm room on a PC sound system its passable, but in a true home theater environment where DD and DTSare well established, it couldn't hold up. Just pony up for the license and add a DD 5.1 track, please! Sheesh, just buy Dolby Labs for Christs' sake! ;)

User friendliness, broader compatibility with existing PCs and audio systems in the end will go a long way toward consumer acceptance. Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by fingersdlp
I also get a "CSS error message" after the interactual player is installed and tries to run the content. I have had no luck getting the license. When I try directly from WMP it asks me to insert the DVD (which is already loaded) - I have tried to eject and insert it again at this time but does not help. Drat! Any ideas?

Brian

I had the same problem and discovered it was the Elecard player/decoder pack. Uninstalling it cleared the CSS error up completely.

I just finished watching about 20 minutes of the movie. I think the picture is great. I can understand what Karnis is talking about comparing it to other HD material, however, because I don't remember the quality of the original movie it could just be the print itself. I do have 5.1 going to my receiver and it is adequate (I am sure if I tweak the soundcard settings and receiver it would get better.

Originally posted by rclifton
I had the same problem and discovered it was the Elecard player/decoder pack. Uninstalling it cleared the CSS error up completely.

Is this part of some application? I have power DVD. You apparently need a software DVD player installed. I tried it on another computer and got the same CSS error. Any ideas?

Originally posted by Dick Kalagher
Is this part of some application? I have power DVD. You apparently need a software DVD player installed. I tried it on another computer and got the same CSS error. Any ideas?

I had the elecard player/decoder(the registered version) pack installed to take advantage of the demuxer with .ts streams. I tried installing WinDVD and still had the same CSS error. I then uninstalled the elecard filters completely and re-installed WinDVD 4.0 this fixed the CSS error. I don't have a copy of PowerDVD handy ATM, but my suggestion would be to uninstall it and try a trial install of WinDVD and see if that doesn't fix the problem.

On a side note I just watched about 15 minutes and I think it looks great, I have an NForce 2 mobo so I get the 5.1 sound. It definetly isn't as good as the DD 5.1EX on the main disk but it doesn't sound all that bad to me. Also it played silky smooth on my AMD 2100XP, 512mb PC2700 ram, 9700AIW machine.

I'd just like to say Microsoft give me MORE! But please please please don't allow content owners to use Interactuals player it sucks!

Is this movie called Terminator 2 or Total Recall. Cause I hear Artisan recalling all these defective discs. They should have joined up with Disney and if your license wasn't acquired properly your disc would self destruct and explode and turned all your computer equipment into a big pile of rubble.

This is sad. I learned how to program Unix and I can't get this dvd to work. I contacted them multiple times and they said first the license server was down and should be working tomorrow. Then they told me to send the disc back to them and they would replace it with a new one. This is a BIG F#CK #P by Artisan! I have to get a license every 5 days for a POS dvd movie that is over 10 years old and costs $20. Its not like Artisan is trying to protect a brand new movie that has potential to make millions of dollars. Do I get any updates with this license acquisition over the net? Which corporate officer over at Artisan agreed to do this? You know they would like to do this with every dvd they publish. For the limited amount of people that could really enjoy this disc, aka everyone who is on this site, who have elaborate HTPC's can fully enjoy the full benefits of this disc are going to jump through many hoops to get this movie to play. Great way to build customer loyality.

I bought the disc today everything seems to run fine, but no picture no sound. Is there any other way to play this thru another player. Right now I know my PC will not play it very well ( amd xp1700) but i will have my new computer finished tomorrow ( P4 2.4C, springdale, Dual 3200DDR, Radeon 9800), so it should play it without a hitch. But i would think that I would at least get a picture from the Interactual player. anybody else having this problem.

wbcollegekid

Oh yea, they are gathering personal information on you in case you missed this window when installing the iplayer.

For me, after the interactual player said "click OK to agree and get the license" I clicked 'OK', it downloaded something, Media Player popped up and said, "you've acquired a new license, do you want to back it up?" I figured great, it worked, now I can watch it. Nope. The InterActual "acquire license" popup comes back up and said, "press play to view" but the play button stays greyed out. Meanwhile the player underneath is saying loading...please...wait...

that's it. It's still sitting there 2 hours later. loading...please...wait...

The Good: Well, I uninstalled my software dvd players (windvd, powerdvd). Downloaded and installed cineplayer trial. Installed InterActual player, no more CSS error.

The Bad: Now it seems that "Playback Has Failed Due To An Error With The Audio Subsystem"

I still can't get the software to work. I finally blocked the punch to my face, and I got nailed in the gut.

I was able to get rid of the CSS error by uninstalling some public domain DVD programs that were on my computer. It could have been DVD toolbox that was causing the problem.

Originally posted by Karnis

Oh and BTW....the audio sucks. I found the volume to be too low, dynamics were flat, and overall quality mediocre. This is on an M-Audio DeltaDio connected to a Yamaha RX-V1 via SP/DIF so I only get DPL. Again, maybe in a dorm room on a PC sound system its passable, but in a true home theater environment where DD and DTSare well established, it couldn't hold up. Just pony up for the license and add a DD 5.1 track, please! Sheesh, just buy Dolby Labs for Christs' sake! ;)


I've been a little confused by this myself. AFAIK, you can't have a WMV file with Dolby audio.

They do have a 5.1 track, but it's in Windows Media format. So you can't play it via SPDIF on your Delta Dio. You either need a card that has 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 discrete audio output and you feed these analog signals into your receiver/amplifier, or you need a sound card that can re-encde the multichannel audio into DD, like the nForce2 chipset does.

But you really can't say that the audio sucks because you're not listening to it. All you're listening to is the stereo down-mix massaged into Pro Logic, which is guaranteed to suck.

I would venture a guess that the surround track is actually BETTER than DTS or DD5.1 if you do use the discrete 6ch analog option. That's what I've been told by the experts in this forum, anyway. I, myself, have an nForce motherboard and I'm realtime-re-encoding it as DD5.1 because my Sony STR-DA30ES doesn't have discrete 5.1 inputs.

I'm fully aware of the WM 5.1 soundtrack. And the need for a multichannel soundcard. And you are incorrect about a DD track option, amir from MS has already stated in previous post you can have a DD track, if the content provider chooses to do so. IMHO, the fact that is in WM9 5.1 sucks right off the bat. The vast majority of home theater users pass multichannel via SPDIF to an external decoder. Check the poll at the TheaterTek forums if you want a recent sampling of HTPC users.

FMD80:
Check my earlier post how I fixed getting past that error.

For all those with broadband here in the states: Try using WMP with no proxy setting then double click on the *.wmv file on the disk. It won't work the first time, even after it says that it got a license. Then close WMP and reopen and double click on the same file. This is how I got it to work after trying to no avail with the interactual player.

Originally posted by Karnis
I'm fully aware of the WM 5.1 soundtrack. And the need for a multichannel soundcard. And you are incorrect about a DD track option, amir from MS has already stated in previous post you can have a DD track, if the content provider chooses to do so. IMHO, the fact that is in WM9 5.1 sucks right off the bat. The vast majority of home theater users pass multichannel via SPDIF to an external decoder. Check the poll at the TheaterTek forums if you want a recent sampling of HTPC users.


I *am* one of those users SPDIF users. I didn't know you could have a DD5.1 or DTS soundtrack in the WMV format. I wonder why they didn't include it... I suppose there must be a facility to select which soundtrack you want to play back just like the DVD Main Menu screen often offers under Options. I don't know if that exists.

When you said the audio sucks, I think most of us took it to mean that the soundtrack sounded bad, not that the choice of WM9 5.1 wasn't to your liking.

I'm guessing that teh WM9 5.1 track actually sounds better than DD or DTS, but not as many HTPC folks can enjoy it.

Yeah Karnis. I had seen your post and had tried it and it didn't work. I decided to put the disc in my laptop to test (the machine that I do a lot less experimental work on) and it played right away. I played it in media player 9 as well. I decided to back the license up to its default save location, copy that folder over to my pc and I loaded that file into WM9. Now the movie plays on here. No need for the interactual stuff. I did manage to destroy my installations of my dvd players. But that is easily fixable. As some people mentioned earlier, M$ is going to have to flex some muscle in the future so the InterActual player isn't necessary anymore. M$ has all the muscle in the world, I don't see why changing things in the future should be a problem, given a little time. For the most part I enjoy M$'s existence (unlike a lot of people). I find they make some things a lot less of a hassle for me. Hopefully this can be added to the list in the future. I hope next time I won't need 2 computers (that cost me $4000 put together) to get a $20 DVD to work. I've expended so much energy trying to figure this out. I'm now too tired to watch the damn movie. haha

Tip for all the people that plan on buying this one. Beware of InterActual. It could be real easy. Or REALLY hard.

The audio being in wm 5.1 and not dd or dts might have to be due to the space on the disk, since it is sharing with other "extras". I think that the 5.1 wma is at a bitrate of 128k while dd or dts is 400k and more.

Please keep the feedback coming!

We will take all of your responses and pass them on to the appropriate teams at Artisan Entertainment, InterActual, and here at Microsoft. Your experiences will help us improve future HD projects.

Some Troubleshooting Tips
====================

For issues with the InterActual player, you can start by looking at their support site. They also have a customized FAQ for T2 up now with lots of helpful information.

General support: http://support.interactual.com/

T2 FAQ: http://player.interactual.com/help/support/articles/0134.asp

Workaround to acquire licenses
=======================

We have noticed a number posts on licensing issues and workarounds to acquire a license and/or play the movie from the Windows Media Player. Below is a description of a direct way to acquire a license from a command prompt and play content from the Media Player. Note, as already posted WM9S player is required, and chapter seek does not function in WM9S Player. Interactual implemented this and other functionality.

a. From a command prompt (Start…Run…"cmd"), navigate to the DVD drive root.

b. Run the DVDRUN.EXE program (type DVDRUN.EXE and hit enter). The program should exit silently if successful, or display an error dialog if a problem was encountered. For instance, if the PC is not connected to the internet, a dialog will display saying that an internet connection is required.

c. Once DVDRUN has finished, start Windows Media Player 9 Series. Do a File…Open, and navigate to the folder on the DVD that contains the WMV files: \common\win\lang\en\t2x\esource. To play the entire film, simply open the CHAP_0.ASX file. You can also open the WMV files individually.

d. The license acquisition window will come up and a EULA will appear the first time through. Once you agree to the EULA, a license will be delivered. Press the play button to start the movie.

Just as with the InterActual Player, you will need to acquire new licenses, using this method from the DVD, every 5 days.

Thanks,
-Dan

Does anyone have any good sources that account for how "good" WMA is supposed to sound compared to DD and DTS and the same/similar bitrates? I was under the impression that it is better (in terms of sound quality) to have WMA where you normally would have DD, but not better to have it over DTS. Opinions, links?


Dan

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dgehred
[B]Please keep the feedback coming!

I can't believe you are charging people to beta test this flaky DVD.

Excellent work, dgehred. That got me up & running, without installing the Interactual Player!

Thanks,

I am late into this thread 'cause I've been watching the movie (I'm up to chapter 32).

I agree. Not only is the install of the Interactual Player unfriendly, it doesn't work correctly. I got the video subsystem failure several times; I changed my video settings up and down and then read on their website that maybe the software couldn't find my dvd software. I re-installed Intervideo (it came free with my MSI GeForce MX 440 AGP8X 64 mb video card), but clicking on the Play button left me with a 'Loading ... Please wait ' message'... forever. A post in a DVD Software thread on T2 suggested rebooting. That worked and I finally got to a dvd menu. When I clicked on T2 I learned my video had to be 1600 x 1200, which on my 19" monitor is difficult to read. I switched to the desktop and changed the setting, but when I got back Interactual was frozen.

Then it still would not play. I tried the suggested 'reinsert the dvd' trick several times. Sometimes Interactual loaded, sometimes not. And when it did sometimes clicking on T2 suggests reinserting the dvd and other times shows the system requirements with the continue button. BTW I have an Athlon 2500 XP+ with 512 mb ram, a K7N2G mbo, and the MX440 video.

The only playing problem, so far, was at the end of chapter 22 when it paused for about a second, the cpu usage jumped to 99%, and then play continued. It was like a slightly longer side change on a dvd.

I won't get to finish this movie tonight. But so far so good, after initial travails.

Tom

This DRM crap is totaly BS. There's no way I'm buying this DVD.

Is there a registry setting or tweak to force Interactual Player to downmix the 5.1 WMP9 audio to 2 channel stereo? Im only using SPDIF on my HTPC. The only way I know how to get around this is to use WMP9 player itself and play the files directly from \common\win\lang\en\t2x\esource. WMP9 DOES downmix the audio so I can hear all audio channels, but it can't play the sequence of files seemlessly without a big pause between media files (even when queued).

PS: 1080p plays smooth as silk on a 3GHz PC :)

I have only tried it on my Athlon 2000XP system, and as to be expected it is jerky at times. However, I have a 3.0GHz, 800FSB system coming in a week or two :)

The Interactual player sucks eggs. I tried using the trick mentioned above to play it in WMP and it seems to work, although I haven't played more than 5-10 minutes of the movie.

Other than being told to insert the disc a few times (even though it was), I've had no problems getting the disc to play or to acquire the license. As mentioned earlier, the IA player is horrible, unintuitive and downright nasty.

I can't wait for my new system to get here so I can really see how this look on my LCD HDTV...

well mine shipped today from deepdiscount dvd but it has a long way to go so will let you know how I go when i get it... I have an AMD Athlon 1.8 at home and Compaq 1.8 P4 for work so will be interesting to see how it goes...

Now I have to play all my DVDs with Interactual! In fact now when I insert a DVD Interactual locks up. I will not waste any more time with this %#@&.

I reinstalled my WINDVD software which means my pc is back to being functional for playing DVDs.

Pardon me if I already said this, but not owning any previous version of T2 I was surprised by the lack of 'ordinary' extras on this version. For example, I guess I must look at the crfedits at the end to see a list of who played whom in the movie.

Tom

This fixed everything for me.
http://player.interactual.com/help/support/articles/images/t24.jpg

The Interactual player worked better for me than some, but still didn't work as smoothly as it should. It aquired the license OK, but hung at the point where the dialog box pops up telling you to hit the "play" button to start the movie (which as has been described in an earlier post was greyed out). It was just a matter of exiting the player and opening the files in WMP9 to get the movie running. This compared to the SITSOM DVD which, minus the Interactual player, worked flawlessly.

Now, on to the quality. I would agree to the sentiment that the video quality is very good, but doesn't quite "wow" me. The notable exceptions to this are scenes that contain explosions and fire. WM9 does an amazing job at displaying these, to the point where you can quite easily pick out the real thing from effects created in post processing.

Overall, I feel it's worth the purchase. I'm looking forward to see what else might be coming down the pike, and whether they learn from the mistakes made with this release.

One thing I want to say in MS's defense...

The DRM itself does not need to be painful... Consider the BMW hire clips... I would not have even known they were DRM protected... I just put them in and played them...

Artisan have choosen to tie this with the IA player and adopt geographic restrictions... Artisan have had thier license server go down... Artisan have precisely 1 person on that cs@artisanent.com email (according to the reply I got from it) who sounds stressed to the point of a nervous breakdown...

It is Artisan who were not ready for this not necessarily the system itself... Problem is of course putting power into the hands of unready content owners...

I also agree the sound may not be up to DTS or DD quality... I have my HTPC halfway through an upgrade (and waiting on parts being mailed) so could not check a 5.1 output only a downmix... It sounded lower volume and less distinct but I wanted to listen in native 5.1 as that could be an effect of the downmixing...

Agreeing to a EULA just to watch a movie? I don't think so.

did everyone else get the same...

You must agree to the EULA 'Agree' button with no description of the EULA etc... I mean whats up with that... Is it a joke ?? How can anyone have ever looked at that and thought that made any sense.. agree to something that is not explained... !!!

Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
did everyone else get the same...

You must agree to the EULA 'Agree' button with no description of the EULA etc... I mean whats up with that... Is it a joke ?? How can anyone have ever looked at that and thought that made any sense.. agree to something that is not explained... !!!

Nope there was a scroll bar at the eula on my machine that I could scroll through before accepting. Pretty much standard same stuff although I noted that the eula stated you couldn't copy the files to your hardrive. Guess I shouldn't mention that I copied them or Artisan might pay me a visit ;)

I've now watched the first few scenes of this, so I'll chime in. My setup includes an Audigy 2 hooked up through the analogue outs (so I can hear DVD-A at full quality), so I did get true 5.1 sound. And I have to tell you, at least in the first few scenes, it does sound pretty damn good compared to most movies. I'm not enough of an audio enthusiast to give any specifics, except that the channel separation was very apparent - the channels didn't seem to merge into eachother like in most movies, especially the rear channels. When a laser beam shot from offscreen back and to the left onto the screen towards the center, for example, it did actually sound like the beam went over my shoulder.

As for the visual quality, I'll repeat what others have said - definitely noticably better than DVD, but not nearly up to par with broadcast HD. If this is better than the D-VHS version, than I pity the poor people who paid $50 for that one. I wouldn't mind seeing these things as extras on normal DVD movies, but based on this movie, I don't want this to become the standard. Maybe when they are given more storage space, bandwidth, and the full resolution (as opposed to being scaled up to full resolution), this could become worthy. But as of yet, this is worse tham broadcast HD, and the successor to DVD needs to be at least equal, and preferrably superior.

I had no problems with playing it - I installed the damn IA player, making sure to tell it not to automatically play my DVD's or keep track of my actions. I let that thing get the DRM license for me and start the movie, then I killed it and ran the files directly.

Followed the directions from dgehred and it loaded the licensce just fine. WOW, absolutely amazing video. Plays back absolutely flawlessly on an Athlon 2500 overclocked to 2.1G on an Epox 8RDA+ (NF2) with 1G of PC3200 memory in a dual channel configuration and an ATI 9000 video card.

Will try on my HTPC (which is a lesser machine) tomorrow and report how things look.

Reading on this thread, I now revise my estimate of number of people being able to see T2 in full glory from 200 to less than 50 globally.

Many have bought T2 Extreme for the novelty effect of WM9 release, rather than the interest in the T2 movie.

Having the curiosity satisfied my question is: Who and where is the target market for the next release of this type?

Why are so many of us going along with this licensing scheme? Sure, we all want to support development of HD-DVD, but I for one have mixed feelings about giving up our own rights. Call me old fashioned, but when I buy something, I want to own it. I am no pirate and abide by the laws which prohibit me from distributing copyrighted materials. What is happening here will eventually lead to another pay-per-view scheme where we, the consumers, incur the additional onus of paying for the distribution medium and experience new inconvenience. Why is this different from the DIVX scheme that we all successfully rejected? I would urge the studios to do what they have so successfully done before - provide us with something of value and we will pay.

Jerry

I received mine yestarday and installed that crappy viewer. No problem. I used 960x540p on powerstrip and after dissabling reclock (was killing the audio) it played just fine on my Asus P4PE P42.0 overclocked to 2.76ghz. I shut it off after the first chapter change because this waiting **** w/black screen SUCKS! I wont watch it on future films unless this is corrected!
The standard DVD looks really excellent. Not as good as the HD version but only very slight differences.
FREAK!

I watched 32 chapters last night and the only black screen came at the end of chapter 22. The cpu went to 99% and it lasted maybe 1.5 seconds. Sort of like a slightly longer side change on a dvd.

On the downside I had to reinstall my dvd software twice. It took at least 30-45 minutes of frustration to get it to play. Not a pleasant experience.

Tom

I am very scared that a movie that I would want very much comes out in this f***ed up mess. I would be such a divided soul...

MS, forget about 1080p! It just makes it too impactical for the VAST majority of computer users...or is that a hint to upgrade?

Darius

I read on this board months ago about this DVD. I went and upgraded my pc to a 2.4 processor, bought an audigy 2 sound card, new 6.1 speakers and a DVD Rom drive JUST SO I COULD WATCH THIS HD RELEASE!

Yesterday I get home from work and unwrap the DVD, I was so excited to finally see Hi Def in my own home.

I pop in the DVD, navigate through the menu, get to the upgrade license screen that Dan and others have explained and that is pictured in the screenshot above, and....nothing. It just sits there in IE saying it is "upgrading" but actually its doing nothing.

I am a professional software tester for a large internet company in real life, so I figure I can troubleshoot this easy, right?

I uninstall the crap DVD software that came with the movie and reinstall it and try again...nothing.

I cancel out of the IE license download and get a windows popup saying I need to upgrade my DRM and just hit "ok", so I hit "ok" and the same window pops right back up, ad infinitum.

I know I have some download blocker software running on my pc to stop popup ads and think maybe that is interfering so I uninstall it and reboot and try everything again... no go.

I figure maybe I should try installing Netscape and try that license download website in Netscape, so I do. That screen gives a message in Netscape "This page is only viewable in Internet Explorer".

So I think maybe my IE is outdated, I go to MSFT and get the latest and greatest and try it all again. No go.

I uninstalled WM9 and reinstalled with the latest from MSFT... no go.

Finally I give up.

I don't want to even think about how much money I wasted and I cant even watch the %^&** movie. Someone at Microsoft actually thought it would be a good idea to store the license for the movie externally??!! If this is their true business model, I know that I would not support it EVEN if it worked. But it absolutely doesn't work for me, and probably others.

I sent off an email to Artisan asking for tech support but I truly do not expect any help on this from them. I also cannot return the DVD because of the return policy on software. And it's not even the DVD's fault, it is 100% Microsoft with the external licensing.

What do I do?

Dont forget about 1080p... Withing months a 2.4 is an entry level system... Why buy a title now that is for archival when it will be playable for years to come (providing license servers stay operational !!)...

No its 100% Atrisan with a shoddy license implentation...

Did anyone even notice the license aquisition with the BMW clips.... Nope... MS had the power to do it right... Artisan have dropped the ball...

Have you followed all the tips to use WMP9 only and the files direct form the HD ???

Can someone post a good proxy server pls

Yes I have followed all tips to use WM9 only and it hangs at exactly the same spot. Also I have tried the command prompt fix posted by Dan and all that is, is a way of executing the same thing that is already working for me and again it hangs once it makes it to the web page. The page doesn't even TRY to work, the little IE icon is not spinning at all, although the page itself says it is "upgrading" please wait. I even left it in the upgrading mode and went to dinner and came back, but of course it wasn't doing anything.

'upgradeing' ???

Are you talking about the license getting or simply upgradeing WMP9 ?? I had no upgrading to do on any of the machines I tried so far...

PP

http://player.interactual.com/help/support/articles/images/t24.jpg


If you click that upgrade button, it switches over to say "upgrading" but it doesn't do anything.

Just wanted to tell everybody I was wrong about the 5.1 being 128k for bitrate, it is equal to DD.

nebrunner, forget that and try to click on the wmv file again. That is what happened to me and I just bypassed and clicked on the T2_part1.wmv file and it worked after 2 separate times.

Both going through this route and the WM9 route. And I tried it a lot more than 2 times, literally over 100 times. There is some software problem and it could be relevant to my setup, my area, my IP, who knows. That's the problem with a software solution like this, your license should be ON DISC. I paid money for the DVD, I own it, I don't want my license to be stored on an off site server, even if I COULD access it.

Try simply upgrading WMP9 via the WMP9 website to the newest release version...

I never saw that security update but I do keep WMP9 up to date..

nebrunner, what version of IE (specifically) are you using? It looks like you might need an update for IE

Everything works fine for me now but WMP and the Iplayer is not playing 5.1 sound. My center channel isn't working. I can play multiple types of files with WMP and center works fine but not for this for some reason. I have a Hercules Game Theater XP sound card.

May be someone can figure out how we can put these files on their hard drive, remove the 5.1 sound, add the DD track from the 480p standard copy, disable WMP licensing and we all will be very happy.

http://www.raceworx.com/funnypics/blondeswish.jpg

As noted in my first post, I upgraded both WM9 and IE to the latest versions available at MSFT.

Here at work I just typed in the URL for the license upgrade page in the screenshot and of course it worked fine here.

Is it possible to copy the license file that it downloaded to disc and move it to my home pc?

If so, what is the default path for storage of the license files?

nebrunner, try this site: http://drmlicense.one.microsoft.com/Indivsite/indivit2.htm

Also look at this that I found on MS's website:
Turn Off Browser Start Because of Script Command Processing and Turn Off DRM 1 License Acquisition
Insert the following text in a blank text (.txt) file, and then save the file with a .reg extension:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\MediaPlayer\Preferences]
"PlayerScriptCommandsEnabled"=dword:00000000

Double-click the .reg file to import it into the registry.
Turn On Browser Start Because of Script Command Processing and Turn On DRM 1 License Acquisition
Insert the following text in a blank text (.txt) file, and then save the file with a .reg extension:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\MediaPlayer\Preferences]
"PlayerScriptCommandsEnabled"=dword:00000001

Double-click the .reg file to import it into the registry.
If this registry key does not exist, script commands and DRM 1 license acquisition is turned on.

Note By default, this feature is turned off in Windows Media Player 9 Series. To turn the feature on, click Options on the Tools menu, click the Security tab, and then click to select the check boxes in the Content area

Circuit City will match target's price - and take off a few cents from it. Bought one yesterday for 14.49 plus tax.

Annoyed that can only get a license for 5 days (assuming it works at all - and can get a license thru my proxy server).

Taking it back un-opened.

10 years from now I'll still like this movie - and the license server will be no where to be found.

i guess it is presumed that everyone here who has it working is using 5.1 analog outs from of their sound card or an Nforce mobo? Hopefully there will be an easy way to play WMP9 5.1 audio as AC3 for people who only have SPDIF out on their HTPC.

I dont know why so many people are having problems with licencing. It took me less then 5 seconds to download the licence and get the HD version to play. Anyway, the only deal breaker for me is being able to hear downmixed 2 channel audio.

May be someone can figure out how we can put these files on their hard drive, remove the 5.1 sound, add the DD track from the 480p standard copy, disable WMP licensing and we all will be very happy.

I sincerely hope that this thread, riddled with comments like these, teaches whoever is behind this DRM stuff a lesson:

When you utilize a copy protection scheme that is not effectively robust, the hackers of the world will eliminate it, and eventually everyone will know how to get around it. Many won't care, and will keep paying for the product. Others will, and will steal it. (DeCSS is a good example)

When you utilize a copy protection scheme that is SO robust that it becomes a point of annoyance for legitimate uses of the product, then guess what-- EVERYBODY tries to crack it. And once it has been cracked (and it will), EVERYBODY will ignore it. Stuff like this DRM only encourages hacking the program because it manages to piss off way more people than just those whose income depends upon selling pirated software. If we lived in a world where this WM9 HD-DVD format was a legitimately supported format, with an installed user base and this DRM scenario, not only would it be cracked quickly, but the legitimate end users would be very interested in implementing the crack because it would get rid of an annoyance that they are offended to have to bear. And then what are you left with? No copy protection. I have to wonder when content providers are gonna learn this-- go overboard on copy protection and rights management, and the whole world is against you. (DIVX is a good example)


Dan

"I dont know why so many people are having problems with licencing. It took me less then 5 seconds to download the licence and get the HD version to play. "

For me it was because the POS IA player didn't properly see my sound card, so I couldn't get it to run, even though I HAD gotten the license.

I went home over lunch to try your fixes. The link to Microsoft does the same thing as the other page, it says it is working but it hangs and doesn't actually do anything. I also tried selecting and unselecting each of those check boxes you mentioned and it doesn't have an impact either way. I also tried lowering the level of security in the internet zone in WM9 but that didn't make a difference. No luck yet. I do have an pm off to a couple MS employees who were in the thread, but no reply yet and I am not too confident that this can be fixed. I think the premise of downloading the license is fundamentally flawed.

Originally posted by dgehred
Please keep the feedback coming!

We will take all of your responses and pass them on to the appropriate teams at Artisan Entertainment, InterActual, and here at Microsoft. Your experiences will help us improve future HD projects.

Some Troubleshooting Tips
====================

For issues with the InterActual player, you can start by looking at their support site. They also have a customized FAQ for T2 up now with lots of helpful information.

General support: http://support.interactual.com/

T2 FAQ: http://player.interactual.com/help/support/articles/0134.asp

Workaround to acquire licenses
=======================

We have noticed a number posts on licensing issues and workarounds to acquire a license and/or play the movie from the Windows Media Player. Below is a description of a direct way to acquire a license from a command prompt and play content from the Media Player. Note, as already posted WM9S player is required, and chapter seek does not function in WM9S Player. Interactual implemented this and other functionality.

a. From a command prompt (Start…Run…"cmd"), navigate to the DVD drive root.

b. Run the DVDRUN.EXE program (type DVDRUN.EXE and hit enter). The program should exit silently if successful, or display an error dialog if a problem was encountered. For instance, if the PC is not connected to the internet, a dialog will display saying that an internet connection is required.

c. Once DVDRUN has finished, start Windows Media Player 9 Series. Do a File…Open, and navigate to the folder on the DVD that contains the WMV files: \common\win\lang\en\t2x\esource. To play the entire film, simply open the CHAP_0.ASX file. You can also open the WMV files individually.

d. The license acquisition window will come up and a EULA will appear the first time through. Once you agree to the EULA, a license will be delivered. Press the play button to start the movie.

Just as with the InterActual Player, you will need to acquire new licenses, using this method from the DVD, every 5 days.

Thanks,
-Dan

Dan, your workaround saved the day. I was regretting getting the DVD until I saw your posting. I hate the "friendly" player too. I did it this way and the licensing was painless and quick. I had to download the WMP9S as well. I hope others will not miss your post above.

The PQ is excellent. Like others, I am disapointed in only getting Pro-Logic audio through SPDIF. I hope Microsoft fixes this to "enable" this market. I hope we'll see more movies in this format as I am surprised that the hi-def version could easily fit in a standard DVD...


I used a P4 2.5GHz (overclocked to 3 GHz to be safe) with a M-Audio 410 card (worked fine from the start), and my processor usage was 50-60%, memory usage was under 200MB. It played smoothly from my 12X DVD or hard drive.

Just wanted to make everyone aware that we have added a 1 min 42 second T2 trailer to our online HD showcase; there are two T2 files, one encoded at 1440x816 as was the DVD, and a second encoded at 1280x544.

For those who have not seen the showcase, it also includes a range of additional HD content, spanning 720 to 1080P.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx

Can anybody confirm if they have the HD T2 disc running under Win2000? If so, I can try reformatting my HD tonight and downgrading my XP to Win2K and see if that makes a difference.

Just installed my new hardware ( P4 2.4C, Abit IS7 springdale 800 FSB, one stick DDR400) HiDEF Terminator runs at 80% of CPU, no faults. Bring on the stuff that is recored with new HD cameras. This setup cost only $400. Thank you to all who have posted info especially on how to get the frickin disc to run.

Can anyone tell me if there's a third party software that would convert WM5.1 into AC3 or something--what a gap this is in the HTPC world! I only have SPDIF running to my amp.

nebrunner, you are right in that Artisan's license issues are flawed. I just tested this on another PC running XP. I tried to get the license and it stops saying that the dvd needs to be in the drive. I then tried the registry edits (I deleted the registry key) and rebooted. It then worked fine. Maybe you should try that.

I just tried on my third PC (win2k). It worked with a different step. You may want to try this as all my PC's have different configurations.
1. Try deleting the registry key i posted earlier.
2. make sure you have some sort of software DVD player installed
3. install the interactual player after the software DVD player is installed.
4. Try obtaining the license from the interactual player (you should be able to press the play button on the pop-up window after the license is obtained.
5. uninstall the interactual player.
6. open windows media player and double click on the .wmv file to start the movie.

Someone who is having problems please try this procedure as I have 5 PC's in my house and narrowed down what works and what doesn't with each PC

I just tried on my third PC (win2k). It worked with a different step. You may want to try this as all my PC's have different configurations.
1. Try deleting the registry key i posted earlier.
2. make sure you have some sort of software DVD player installed
3. install the interactual player after the software DVD player is installed.
4. Try obtaining the license from the interactual player (you should be able to press the play button on the pop-up window after the license is obtained.
5. uninstall the interactual player.
6. open windows media player and double click on the .wmv file to start the movie.

Someone who is having problems please try this procedure as I have 5 PC's in my house and narrowed down what works and what doesn't with each PC

Click the right mouse button with your left hand, install German winzip, be connected to the internet every 5 days, and after all these hoops what do we get? Close to perfect video with bad audio of a great movie. Sounds like a win/lose situation to me. I just hope that everyone who buys this disc visits this forum and this thread, otherwise they are gonna be pissed because I emailed Artisan and they were no help whatsoever.

Why can I run the WM9 demos (Step Into Liquid) fine on my Athlon XP 2100+, but T2:Extreme runs like a dog? I'm very disappointed. I just tried OC my CPU 100Mhz, that didn't help much either what's up with that? I'm running off the HD BTW. Hardware monitor says CPU is maxed. :(

I'm downloading the 1080p demo off Microsoft's website, going to see if I can run that one okay.

Believe me, we will do everything we can to convince the content owners that the DRM rules need to be easy, flexible, etc, and that this will improve.

mkanet - The InterActual player is simply using the embedded Windows Media 9 Series ActiveX control. There's some code they have to interact with our player, but it's still basically just our player. As such, downmixing should be have just the same as it does in WMP9.

tombarry (and others) - The black "pause" you see is because of the change between files since the movie is broken up into multiple files. We have seen varying lengths, depending on the system, similar to layer change on DVD.

nebrunner - Check out the workaround I posted. It will get you going. Contact me if you have further issues.

InfiniteThought - T2:Extreme requires more horsepower than many of the 720p demos we have on our site. Try the T2 trailer, both the 720p and the DVD version.

-Dan

Okay, definately down on HP. Just download the 1080p (Coral Reef) demo and it bogged hard. I guess I have an excuse to over clock now! ;)

InfiniteThought, what kind of video card do you have? I'm sure that makes a big difference as well. Memory will also make a difference here (especially when you are running it off of hard drive - if you are constantly going to virtual memory at the same time as trying to stream data off of the drive, it could easily slow things down)

Dreamwriter:

My system:

AMD Athlon 2100+ just found out it's a Palamino core and I can't OC :(
GeForce4Ti4400 128MB DDR @ 301/602 (4600 spec)
ASUS A7V333 Mother Board
512MB DDR

I'm really bumed to find out I can't over clock my CPU.

what video card do u reccommend dreamwriter.. gone are the days when we thought a 32mb video card was more than enough. now its looking more like 128mb...

I tried Dan's workaround, and all I get is "There was a problem issuing licenses. Please try again later." This is totally beyond belief!

I'm getting the same error as you Mark1_M. Sounds like the license server is down. Ahhhh!

I am also getting the same error. Is the license server down?

hgodwin

Ditto. Just picked the DVD up at the local Coconuts...

It works again now. I guess it was a temporary problem. The movie is looking quite nice. :)

hgodwin

What a waste of money.
I just bouight this thing and can't get it to play at all.
I downloaded the HD clip of T2 and it plays fine but the damm Interactual player keeps crashing and when it doesn't and I press play I get a blank screen.
I can't find anything on Disc 2 that looks anything like a WM9 file.
I don't get it.
How have you all been getting this thing to work?

Frank

Thank you for making the download available.

I believe this is the smartest thing that you can possibly do to promote the product.

I don't think I would have bought it, without a preview first.

Finally got the license and got it to work on the Interactual Player, but in the InterActual Player I don't see video on the S-Video out of the ATI card, but that seems to happen to WMP and WinDVD as well on my config - only PowerDVD (which came with the ATI card) works to the S-Video.

Did anyone actually read the license? "No copying to hard disks, no copying to CD/DVD" yadda yadda yadda. In addition, the license is a 5-day, so if you uninstall the player, you'll need to install it again when you want to watch the disk. Also, anyone notice all the options in the IA player to send data off to the world? IA is basically spyware, and since in it's config you can select another app for DVD playback, and can use WMP for the HD playback, is basically unnecessary.

As for the HD WM disk, IA Player won't work if I set PowerDVD as my DVD player software in its config, seems to play OK 'normally', until you try to skip forward, that is, at which point it freezes. Audio is only stereo, and the center channel doesn't seem to get passed over the S/PDIF, but we knew that, right? I, also, cannot find a WM file on the disk to launch in WMP.

If you configure the IA player to use your regular DVD software, and to treat a DVD with PC content as a DVD, and not launch the 'Autorun' application, Disk 1 does come up as a regular DVD, and DD works fine over a S/PDIF, so I'll probably keep the disk instead of returning it, but Disk 2 is basically just a novelty and a pretty poor showing as a 'premier' DVD for spotlighting WM9 technology.

My $.02.

The disc is not stereo... Its 5.1... You simply need a WMA Pro decoder.. As the PC is the only multi channel WMA decoder I know of sending it digitally to the reciever will not do much good...

The WMV files on the DVD are listed in a post a few pages back (from memory look in common/win/lang/en/eng/t2/esource or similar.

It has been shown the IA player (forever after known officially as the POS IA player) is not needed... If it bothers you use one of the alternative methods of gaining the license... Personally I installed it but wont use it, did no harm on my setup (plus I unchecked the privacy reporting)...

This is the first every WMP9 feature release... Looking at the quality of video and 5.1 audio and comparing it to the early DVD releases can give you an idea of what to expect in improvements. Go pick up one of those early releases 4:3 non anamorphic DVD's in 2.0 sound with horrific transfer... Then think how that one technology has evolved while still using that medium.

Of course there are issues...

It seems Artisan are woefully unable to support this release.
It seems that the choice of DRM implementation was unfortunate.
It seems like tieing it to the POS IA player (Die a slow painful death) was stupid.
It seems like the read ahead buffer may need some tweaking.

But with all those problems comes alternative solutions. If MS can keep a flow of release titles people will adapt playback SW (give Blight a DRM license and put him on the payroll now... You would have the best WMP9 player inside of a couple of months) and purchase multi channel soundcards (if you dont move to DD / DTS)...

Given the coice between this format and 'DVD' I would take this format as long as some guarantees are made concerning lifetime licencing and legal assurances that once companies go bust the licenses will still be provided..

Given the complexity of the license aquisition on this disc v the BMW hire clips (which were seamless and invisible) I am hopeful that this is Artisans teething troubles.

Frank, just do a search for *.wmv on disk 2 and you will find it.

I tried to run it using WM9 and it says "Aquiring license" indefinitely and never plays.
Nice! :)

Frank

OK, maybe I was too hard on the format. The video does look good, even on the 15 year old 14" monitor I have connected temporarily. All the sample files I d/l'd from the MS MediaPlayer site play very nicely.

But IA is a POS, and I also agree that the method to get licenses is poor. My biggest problem is not so much that it's needed to get the licencse, but that it's a bit shady in that it claims to be a player when it's really not, AND it wants to start sending usage data off somewhere without being up front about it. (I really HATE spyware and Spam!). Also, if I obtain a license for a Title, I'd like for it to not limit me (via technology or legalities) to only playing the file directly off a DVD - maybe I want to copy all the files to my multi-terabyte storage area network and have all my titles available for immediate retrieval.

I also understand why I don't get 5.1 on my reciever, I was just stating that I only get the stereo (L/R) channels. The thing is, I just spent the last 6 months upgrading AV recievers, surround speakers, HTPC (as of this weekend), HDTV (on order), etc... and trying to get everything to work together optimally, only to find out now I need a reciever with a WMA decoder (which doesn't exist). I think I can pass analog stereo audio into the 6-channel inputs on the reciever to make use of the amp and speakers, but it would've been so much simpler if everything could just be passed over that one digital connection. Maybe someone will come up with a WM plugin that translates WMA to AC3?

BTW - Eventually, I guess the goal would be to have STB DVD players that can play these WM DVDs. Are they going to be expected to be connected to the net to get a license as well? What about playing via the IA software?

Tonight, I tried the InterVideo WinDVD Recorder and surprise! It plays the files just fine. I created a playlist of the .wmv files and it played them fine (but only Pro-Logic audio still). So we have another option... (Note: I had previously gotten the license through WMP9).

By the way, on my HDTV and 1024x768 projector, the picture looks the same to me. However, I cannot verify whether the InterVideo software is downrezing or not.

I restored an old disk backup and tried again from scratch (no license acquired). WinDVD Recorder initiates the Windows Media Player to acquire the license.

WinDVD Recorder offers more picture and other settings, and has more functionality than WMP9. I do not know if (the similar) WinDVD Platinum also supports playing .wmv media files but it may be worth a try to those of you still having problems. You may be able to download the trial version from the InterVideo site and try...

Rich,

You need to clean out your AVS PM mailbox.

Originally posted by Frank
I tried to run it using WM9 and it says "Aquiring license" indefinitely and never plays.
Nice! :)

Frank

If your using WM9, did you do the steps dgehred outlined back on p9 of this thread? "a. From a command prompt (Start…Run…"cmd"), navigate to the DVD drive root. " etc... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2284057#post2284057

Following the steps in that link I was able to get my license in seconds and then play the wmv files with WM9. Gorgeous video, but looks like my 2 ghz rig is under-powered - hopefully I'll be able to tweek it and overclock it to the point of making it work, otherwise I'll have to wait til later this year (after upgrading) to really enjoy it.

the whole DRM implementation on this disc is beyond pathetic; this literally is one of the poorest implemented product premieres ever. what a joke! this should be point and click and done nothing else. obviously this release is the victim of hollywood piracy paranoia...

How frustrating,

It worked perfectly on the first system I tried (when using the DVDRUN) shortcut.

When I tried it on my HTPC, I used the same method, it got the licesnces and then WMP9 hung. When I rebooted, I got into the same issues about hanging for the licesnce. I tried removing the registry key that Paul Seng suggested. I tried loading the Interactual player. No go.

In the Interactual player, it brings up the screen to Please insert your DVD to continue (the DVD is in the drive...) and the screen under that shows loading, please wait.

Was really looking forward to watching it on my projector tonight.

Any ideas on how to start over from scratch?

Thanks,
Bob

Just got the T2 Extreme DVD from amazon, but I am not able to play the HD version (Disc 2). The instuctions say that I need to use Interactual player. I went through the security upgrade. I get the following error message when I try to playback with Interactual.

Interactual player 2.0 error.
"Playback failed due to an error with the audio subsystem. Please ensure the sound card is properly installed or close any applications that may use the sound card. "

My Sound card is an RME Digi96/PAD. TheaterTek plays without any problems. I tried different settings in the RME control panel and also made sure that no other application is using the card. Could it be an RME driver problem.Anyone else have the same issue ?
Thanks,
-Jai

Then dont use the InterActual player use one of the other methods to get the license as listed in the thread...

"""Any ideas on how to start over from scratch?
"""

ritual dance. incense. and in cantation

how furstrating indeed, to have it working on one system and not be able to on another. guess this is as messed up a It seems I thought maybe some of us were jsut slow..

i am not going to bother with this one any longer or similar managed releases. won't buy what I can watch conveniently

My Interactual player doesn't function at all.
I managed to get the license through the Media 9 player but it doesn't allow me to watch it full screen and the aspect ratio is wrong.
My monitor is a Samsung 240T with a resolution of 1920:1200.

Worthless!

Frank

You should be able to run fullscreen but yes if running non square pixels (eg is the 1920x1200 a 16:9 display) the aspect ratio will be distorted... At this point non square pixels are unsupported byt the WMP9 player...

These points were discussed to death prior to the release though...

Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
You should be able to run fullscreen but yes if running non square pixels (eg is the 1920x1200 a 16:9 display) the aspect ratio will be distorted... At this point non square pixels are unsupported byt the WMP9 player...

These points were discussed to death prior to the release though...

My display does not have non square pixels!
It is not a 16:9 display! It is 16:10 and uses square pixels.

It also refuses to run full screen even though the T2 demo does run full screen on it!

Frank

Frank:
I have noticed if you start WMP "maximized" then sometimes it will not go fullscreen... try starting it in a "normal window", then press ALT+ENTER twice to go fullscreen.

I'm not very impressed with WMP9 BTW, I don't find it user friendly at all. Too much bloatware.

I re-installed win xp last night, re-upgraded to SP1 and critical updates, reinstalled the latest version of WM9 and tried to watch the DVD again, and again it just locks up while trying to get the license. All workarounds have been tried.

I did take it over to a friends house and it worked fine there, so I know it does work. Also I downloaded the T2 demo from MSFT and that works fine, so I know I CAN play the movie that I bought, I just cannot get the license for it.

In response to jmcomp124 in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=266751

This sounds like the classic RME problem with Direct Sound. Windows Media player always uses Direct Sound. If you can create a filtergraph in Zoom Player to use Wave-out instead, then your sound problem would probably go away. Another suggestion is to use your motherboard's on-board audio output instead of the RME in this special case.

Thorr,
I am glad that thread caught your eye. I have not used zoom player before as I have been doing all DVD playback with TheaterTek. How do I go about creating a filtergraph in Zoom player ? Should I use zoomplayer instead of Windows Media player.
Thanks,
-Jai
=================
"Ok, I managed to play it with Windows Media player by going directly to
\ommon\win\lang\en\t2\esource. The video looks good, and to my pleasant surprise not choppy. CPU util between 70% and 100% with a P4 2.4 and 128MB DDR Radeon 9000. However, the audio is bad with lots of crackling noise. Any thoughts what could be wrong with audio. With non-audio checked in the rme control panel, there is no audio. With non-audio unchecked there is sound , but as I mentioned, it is bad.
-Jai"
=========

Frank... Thats very odd... in what way is the AR messed up... I know 16:9 displays seems fine its just when people use things like 1440x480 that WMP9 gets confused...

It also refuses to run full screen even though the T2 demo does run full screen on it! Dont understand whats happening... When you run it windowed will it maximize ?? then pressing the fullscreen button does what ??

Of course you need to make sure you dont move the mouse or have it at the screen edge for the bars to dissappear...