I used both a DWIN TV3, with the bravo, and a NEC 1000HT, with both the SAMSUNG, and the BRAVO. While i personally felt that the bravo offered a some what cleaner, looking picture than the SAMSUNG,(SAMSUNG definitely had EE,and a grainer looking picture),over all,neither unit was better than the MARANTZ 8400, with interlaced output, to either projector.

Interesting. I saw definite improvement in picture quality in terms of video noise with Tom's Samsung 931 over the Sony 9000es. I do agree, however, that it wasn't a "huge" difference, but definitely noticeable. I think Mark Gower described the difference being similar to going from an S- video cable to a Component connection. I think it is a bit better than that, due to the reduction in video noise.

The Marantz also has the dreaded Chroma bug, which definitely makes it a non purchase for me. I will enjoy my Bravo until a good quality universal player with DVI output comes out.

Mine is a very early unit. The gasket around the lens is on all the units. If you have a spill AROUND the lens then you can open the cover and move the gasket forward. That will get rid of light spill around the lens. It's the light spill THROUGH the lens I want fixed.


Don, here is what all the Bravo supports:
Media Support:
• DVD-Video, Superbit
• DVD, SVCD, VCD 1.0 and 2.0
• DVD-R/DVD+R/CD/CD-R/CD-RW/Audio CD
• MP3 files using ISO 9660 format
• MPEG-4 AVI files using ISO 9660 format
• Kodak Picture CD (JPEG files using ISO 9660)

It cracks me up that V Inc. advertises that the Bravo is compatible with "Superbit"!

I wonder if anyone bought it for that capability?

:D

FYI - I will be taking pictures of the conversion process for the TV3 original to the HDCP fully compliant TV3. Also, the switchover includes a chip for the main board and the DVI I/O board - nothing else. I have the 2 pieces in hand and I really had to beg to be the first in the country to receive the upgrade pieces by themselves. Apparently, they were/are using up all of the new parts on current shipping units and have had difficulty getting enough extras to accommodate the installed units out there. Even though I begged, I only got one full set. I still need several more.

Like I said though, I'll be taking pictures and posting in the next few days.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

I don't see EE on the 931/TV3 combo and I tend to see EE fairly easy when it is evident.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Morning folks,
I dropped out of the talk for a day so I could build my hush box. I'll post some pictures later. Nothing beautiful mind you, but it works like frigging crazy. I used 3/4" particle board and made an 18" square box, 9" deep. I lined the inside with 1/2" sound deadening corrugate board. I made a square frame that fits the inside dimension of the box and fits snug when you slide the box over it. The frame is made of 1.5" poplar and is mounted to the ceiling. I simply slide the box over the frame and insert 4 quick release pins through pre-drilled holes to hold it up. Of course I cut some large holes/slots in the celing panel for intake and exhaust and I covered them with foam and fiberglass filters. Everything was bought at Home Depot for a total cost of $25. Sure beats the $150 - $400 Plexiglas solutions.

So the net result, the point of this whole exercise was to #1 reduce sound and #2 reduce light spill. Both accomplished.

Sound:
My former LPX-500 was rated at 36db (audible noise). Since Dwin doesn't provide this spec, cough, cough I would have to guess it at 42-45db? (before hush box). After hush box I would put it at about 2-5db, you have to strain to hear it. This morning I fired it up and wasn't sure if it turned on or not.

Light:
The box contains the light that emits from the intake and exhaust, which in my case were the biggest light spill offenders. The light that comes from around lens still exists minimally. I used Don's half moon to remedy this.

A side benefit of the hush box is the filtering and getting the hot exhaust air out of the room. The TV3 produces a considerable amount of hot air. Exhausting it into the space above my drop ceiling is a significant benefit (to me).

If you don't like the light, sound and heat issues with the TV3 consider a hush box.

-kraig

Definitely post detailed pictures when you get the chance Kraig!

Later today Rob. As I said it ain't too pretty but it does work.

kraig-

Sounds like a winner! Hope it looks OK. I assume your TV3 is mounted close to the ceiling so you can have that box flush with the ceiling. That would not be possible here. (20" drop pipe to a slanted ceiling) I'm not sure I will be doing anything about the noise at this time. I do plan to work on the light coming from the cracks I have documanted.

Brent- I am really looking forward to your pics of the conversion and also the before and after of the offending HDCP signal so that you prove what you did was effective. I hope you have a DVD player or channel 201? from direcTV that will demonstrate the modification effectiveness. I consider this very important verification of the effort. Don't you?

Don,

Describe what you see on channel 201 that shows the hdcp problem?

Who has the Studiotek 130? I'd like to know how you like this screen.

-kraig

after hooking up the bravo dvi my contrast setting w avia went from 50 to 85. Anyone else have such a large change to contrast?

Sam,

I've yet to run my Avia with the Bravo/TV3 combo. I'll let you know my results. How is the picture afterwards? I've run the Avia against several different setups and have never had to make any significant changes using it. It makes me wonder if my eyes are getting weak or something?

-kraig

"Describe what you see on channel 201 that shows the hdcp problem?
"

I have not seen it but it has been widely reported on this forum that channel 201 or maybe it was 200 is a test channel for HDCP. If you use DVI that is not HDCP complaint it will not play and if you have HDCP complaint it will work just like it was RGB out. You need, of course, a sat tuner with DVI connection.

kraig
the bravo picture is much cleaner with less noise. And as i mentioned the contrast is much higher after avia which gives a brighter, more contrasty image.
I have to use 480 with the panamorph but i bet 720 is `even better

Samalmoe-

Doesn't this statement: "after hooking up the bravo dvi my contrast setting w avia went from 50 to 85" mean that the Bravo was giving you less contrast with DVI?

oops.

Don,

I ran several DVD-R disks through both the D1 and 931 last night with no problems, every disk I tried played with no issues. Looks like the factory spec is good on both units.

samalmoe,

That contrast level is probably OK, every DVD I've used with the TV3 needed to be jacked up fairly high in the contrast level. In fact, I had a conversation yesterday with Glen about this very subject and he suggested I raise the contrast level into the eighties, I currently had the Sony at 80+, and the D1 and 931 in the 70+ area, I'm going to play with the settings later this week and see how the PQ looks. The fact is, I got to a certain point where the PQ looked so good I just wanted to indulge myself and watch some movies.

Also, the TV3 is somewhat different than other PJ's I've used (e.g. 7200, SP110, etc.), as the incremental change, or effect on the picture, as you adjust the settings is very gradual, as opposed to other PJ's.

rob
I dont know. Is dvi reducing contrast or allowing a higher setting with less white crushing? A light meter reading at the screen would tell i guess.

I thought it might be appropriate to put this comment in a separate post.

I just wanted to take a step back for a moment and say something that is probably obvious, but I think needs to be re-stated.

We tend to discuss the idiosyncrasy's of the TV3 more than the positive aspects, and this is fine as we're all striving to get the most from our PJ's, and resolve what I consider to be in most cases the minor issues we encounter.

So, my point is that I'd like to say I couldn't be more pleased with my TV3, it has exceeded all my expectations in regards to PQ, ease of use and setup. I'm simply memorized by the picture quality and would re-purchase this PJ in a heart beat.

Even my family, who generally thinks all PJ's and TV's look the same, have commented on how excellent the PQ is on this projector. They clearly see a major improvement over my last setup.

I hope all you other TV3 owners are enjoying your new PJ as much as I am.

OK, I'll get off my soap box now :)

I would second Thomas' comments. I would also say though that in my limited experience with other projectors I have had less hassle with them. By hassle I mean no hush box needed, didn't have to take the cover off to remove dust, don't have to do the cryptic code to get into test patterns, didn't have light spill.

I would recommend this projector to anyone because of the inputs and PQ. I would let them know about the shortcomings.

If I were a product manager at Dwin I would take all these comments to heart and try to improve my product. Let's say the light spill and the noise were diminished by half, and there was a filter on the intake and the advanced menu options were in the normal menus, we wouldn't have anything to gripe about, the reviews would be that much better and in the end they would sell more.

My humble opinion is that Dwin went to market with the TV3 just a little hastily. The stuff I've said above in addition to the hdcp issues would support that. Don't you think when the Dwin engineers fired up the TV3 in the lab they saw all this? Probably a marketing decision to ingore this stuff?

So even with all this I'd buy it again. It would be nice to know (and now people do) what your getting into beforehand..

-kraig

My TV3 replaced a capable (and much less expensive) Sony HS10. The Sony was good, but the screen door and fixed panel noise really bothered me at times, hence the replacement.
Anyway, comparing the two, I have to admit that the HS10 was at least as good as the Dwin with HDTV over cable, while the DWIN had been stellar with DVD through the Bravo with DVI.
Then I went and calibrated it. Uh oh - The weird thing that I have found in the past few days after I calibrated with the AVIA disk -- (my contrast settings went way up from factory settings (high 70's) like everyone elses, but my new color settings have left me with flesh tones that are far too red. Odd thing is that saturation and tint is rock solid with Avia, and resulting red and green look good on the calibration screen - then when watching dvd or HD feeds all the folks look they spent the day in the sun after a long winter. The Sony had much more realistic flesh tones, and even my wife who is not all that picky prefers the colors on the hs10.

Is anyone else finding this? I will re do the whole process just to be sure, but I am at a loss as to why the calibrated picture is not as good as out of the box...

Originally posted by bhuskins
FYI - I will be taking pictures of the conversion process for the TV3 original to the HDCP fully compliant TV3. Also, the switchover includes a chip for the main board and the DVI I/O board - nothing else. I have the 2 pieces in hand and I really had to beg to be the first in the country to receive the upgrade pieces by themselves. Apparently, they were/are using up all of the new parts on current shipping units and have had difficulty getting enough extras to accommodate the installed units out there. Even though I begged, I only got one full set. I still need several more.

Like I said though, I'll be taking pictures and posting in the next few days.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Brent, just so you know, there are only 2 boards in the scaler box. I've posted pictures in earlier threads of the TV3 if you want to have a look. I look forward to your swap out pictures.

I decided to go ahead and buy a Bravo player. I needed a player that could play VCDs and the Samsung can not. Plus, there's no telling when I will be getting the HDCP upgrade so the D1 would be the better route. Just hope I don't get one with the problems reported in other threads.

kraig, I have a StudioTek 130. Very nice screen. The wide view angle is very nice for seating to the side, though it does reflect a lot of light onto the ceiling and walls. Washes out the light spill. ;D

I'm aware of the 2 boards - the board getting swaped out is the DVI I/O board - it's small, about the size of a deck of cards.

The chip getting swaped out is on the other main board. It is a little smaller than a quarter.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Is there a way to see if you already have the upgraded board without opening it up or having to attach a HDCP device?

-sonny

Ask you dealer...

Brent Huskins
Media Design

About the Bravo...

My 2¢ on the Bravo is that it is a great, great value and produces a phenomenal 720p picture on the TV3. From my reading in the forums I don't see the Samsung being worth $100 more. Yes the remote is not great on the Bravo but who uses any devices native remote anyways? Doesn't everyone use a programmable remote? If you have DVI input go and order a Bravo. If you don't have DVI don't bother, the other outputs are lousy.

-kraig

I had an HS10 for about 2 wks. I do not agree that any picture on the HS10 looked as good as the Dwin. I will admit that on High Def daylight scenes the colors of the HS10 were vivid. I thought the HS10 had a more digital look. The Blacks on the HS10 were unacceptable and the shadow detail was lacking to say the least when compared to the Dwin.
To me the Dwin is more filmlike with truer colors no matter what the source. Maybe a movie like Toystory would compete fairly well with the Dwin.

schlitzie,

I'm sorry to hear your PQ isn't up to snuff. IMO you definitely have some issues to resolve. I'm not sure why your AVIA settings aren't working for you, but you may want to consider getting some help for an outside source to sort through it.

I've seen almost all the new HD2 units, as well as many of the previous generation DLP's, and the TV3 is near the top of the heap, so you should be seeing a great picture.

Good luck, and I'm confident you'll find the PQ you're looking for.

Yeah, not sure what is up...
I will have another go at it this weekend and start from scratch with the calibration - it is definitely pushing reds for some reason.
I will spring for a pro calibration at some point in the future - problem is finding someone in the area that has some experience with DWIN - the one local guy that is ISF certified did not want to mess with it since "he has only done runco's", whatever that means...

Fellows- Every once in awhile I'll step in here to restate the purpose of this thread for the owners-- and mostly for others who may be compelled to pop in here to start a mine is better post that offers nothing to help TV3 owners tweak their TV3 to perfection.

While you may be compelled to keep restating your pleasure with the TV3 overall so "outsiders" will know it is great, in your opinion, I would think that is best left to the threads of "Mine is better than yours" or this vs. that theme which runs rampid in this forum. :)

The purpose here is to post all that you do to tweak the TV3 to what you consider perfection so other owners will benefit. Yeah, maybe someone on the outside may decide to judge this tweak as a failure of the TV3's strive for perfection but I believe nothing is perfect. Additionally, I do expect that Dwin will monitor this thread to see what owners are doing and will make use of that to improve those thing that annoy us. If they don't like it that we may have an issue with the noise ot the light spill, let them pop in or at least e-mail us to learn of their opinions.

As promised..

Here are link to my HT pics, particularly the hush box. Nothing pretty I'll say again (but works like mad). I was too lazy to take the box off to show you underneath. Next time I take it down I'll post pics of the frame that holds it up. It is nothing fancy either.

http://exchange.ucsf.edu/HT/Equipment/Dwin/100_0018_3.jpg


http://exchange.ucsf.edu/HT/Dwin_pics.htm

-kraig

Alot of us up here in Canada have been trying to financially coerce (;)) the company to ship the D1 units north of the 49th............


Alas, to no avail..........

Are there any anticipated distributors whom will ship to Canada? Would love to have a sample for an anticipated Canuck Shootout II.

Drop me a line if you could help us up here

For those who go with the plexiglass hushbox, here's an alternative to painting it. Maybe tinting the glass would be an acceptable alternative. Could get rid of all the light spills.

I will be putting Sheetrock in my HT next week. I am trying to plan where to put the Dwin mount and electrical outlet in the ceiling.

Could someone please tell me how far from the front of the Dwin mount the lens extends?

In other words, how many inches from the front part of the Dwin mount to the lens of the projector?

Thanks!

I posted this before and it was there, now gone????

So, here it is again-

http://www.dwin.com/tv2_dim.htm

That should get you the dimensions, If you need more, ask and I'll measure it off the projector.

The TV3 seems to have about a 5 foot range for the distance from the screen. Is it better to place it closer to the screen or further away?

That's perfect Don. I feel like an idiot for not knowing that was on the Dwin site, and even more so considering that this is probably in the Dwin manual that Thomas Marshall copied for me today!

Vegashomes

If you have a choice-- always work the center range of a lens.
All lenses suffer to some degree of:
Too zoomed in and your depth of focus range is narrower
Too wide angle and your edge distortion is greater.

This is just general lens physics and not particularly related to the TV3.

Question:

I'm considering putting 1/4" plexiglas over the lense hole of my hush box. Anyone ever done this? It would make the box dust free and even quieter. The few hush boxes I've seen have open holes.

no no...use coated port glass only

I've seen how some of you note differences in setup based on source. When you calibrate for these sources, are the changes you make global - or are they specific to the input that was calibrated?

Thanks,
AGN

Originally posted by vegashomes
The TV3 seems to have about a 5 foot range for the distance from the screen. Is it better to place it closer to the screen or further away?

Don had a good point. But also look at where your seating is. I mounted my projector on the ceiling just behind the second row of seats. Out of sight, out of mind. This was at almost the max zoom range of the projector. I've noticed no ill effects.

Rooney, I do believe the changes are only for that input, but I am not positive about it.

Anyone know for sure if passing a 720p signal to the projector will bypass the internal scaler?

Tox,

I asked Dwin support the 720p scaler bypass question and the answer is yes. As you would assume any progressive signal will be passed through and interlaced signals will be scaled.

Anyone ever seen the SilverStar screen? Ever seen it with the TV3? The Powerbuy AVS has going is pretty good and since the SilverStar is so different than the Studiotek everyone is using I'm not sure how it would do.

I have no ambient light issues...

Originally posted by kraigk

As you would assume any progressive signal will be passed through and interlaced signals will be scaled.

Wouldn't 480p get scaled to 720p? Also wouldn't interlaced signals get de-interlaced and scaled?

Art

Heres a screenie I took witht he TV3 using a single link DVI cable.

I did a comparison at home theater discussion(where I took this pic from as well), but a strange thing happened when I tried the RGB cable. It would lock into the 1280x768 instead of 720p, but when I would use the DVI cables, it would lock into 720p. I tried to change settings while using the rgb, but it wouldn't let me.

When something other than 1080 or 720p is fed, the whole screen isn't filled, and there is a black bar on the side for some reason. Is this normal?

Also, when if I turn on the projector after I turn on the PC, sometimes it wont recognize the HTPC(DVI), so I will have to restart the HTPC, and once I do that, the DWIN picks it up, and I am in business.

Any ideas what this is about?

Thanks again guys,
Fred

OK, nevermind on posting the pic, the pic I have is bigger than 640x640:(

It sounds like your Dwin is trying to synch your htpc feed and having trouble. Before ever connecting the dvi from htpc what resolution do you have it set at? I've done dvi and am currently doing rgb from my htpc without any problems. I did have to use Powerstrip and choose the custom resolution of 1280x720. Once that resolution is dialed in everything synched fine regardless of dvi or rgb. I did have considerable black space on my left side (I think) which was easy to adjust in the image setup menu by just moving it over.

The key for me was Powerstrip.

kraigk-

We have a 122.5" diagonal Silverstar that will be paired with the TV3 (that is the largest they currently make). I already have the screen and they are coming next week to finish the room construction, so I should have the TV3 up by next weekend (hopefully--fingers crossed!). I will let everyone know how it looks after I get everything up and running....I bought this screen sight unseen based on all of the reviews and a strong recommendation from my dealer so my expectations are pretty high...

Originally posted by Wade Shapiro
kraigk-

We have a 122.5" diagonal Silverstar that will be paired with the TV3 (that is the largest they currently make). I already have the screen and they are coming next week to finish the room construction, so I should have the TV3 up by next weekend (hopefully--fingers crossed!). I will let everyone know how it looks after I get everything up and running....I bought this screen sight unseen based on all of the reviews and a strong recommendation from my dealer so my expectations are pretty high...

The slogan for AvScience should be "ask and you shall receive". Thanks for the reply Wade. I'm very curious about your findings. It seems most are using white screens with the TV3, in particular the Studiotek 130. The SilverStar has had some incredible reviews that I can't ignore (and neither did you it seems).

Thanks,

Rooney,

My findings show that each feed needs to be specifically tuned/calibrated.

Fred,

I also have occasional sync problems, mostly after I have been switching sources repeatedly. Requires me to power off/on the source, then it syncs immediately. I wasn't sure if the problem was related to the Dwin or the source that is feeding it.

This happens with my 931 and my Receiver routed devices (my Receiver is connected from it's video out port to one of the component in's on the Dwin, with several sources connected to the Receiver, basically I use the Receiver as a switching device because I have more than two component sources).

Has anybody actually done a side by side comparison with an HD2 DLP (or any DLP for that matter) between White and/or Gray screens and the new Silverstar?

Thomas,

I have a question, when you did the calibration of your dvi input using the avia disc played on your samsung 931 at 720p do you have enough controls in tv3 that are enabled to be able to do the calibration?

-twelly

Not sure what you mean, but I was able to use the standard Video adjustments from the Dwin control menu (i.e. Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint and Sharpness) during each AVIA panel.

They work fairly well, however, I think AVIA is coming out with a digital disk that will work more effectively. In some of the AVIA screen setup panels the outside gray bar doesn't show up at all, so you just take an educated guess with some of the settings.

Thomas,

Thanks for the info. I thought I read some postings somewhere that certain control menus are disabled (i.e. other than aspect control) when you are feeding the pj with 720p signal. I am not familiar with all the pj controls other than the standard ones, but something like color temp and gray scale which I keep reading from other posts. Are you planning to use colorfacts to further tweak the pj?

thanks,
-twelly

Twelly,

I think your referring to the size adjustments not being available for the dvi connections. The dvi sizing is fixed so the size menu doesn't show up. All the other inputs are adjustable. Other than that I don't know of any menus not being available.

Exactly.

Twelly,

Regarding Colorfacts and other types of adjustments and calibrations, I will definitely explore them over the next few months. Right now I have a high level of satisfaction with my PQ, so more than likely I will indulge myself in movie watching for a while.

I think your referring to the size adjustments not being available for the dvi connections. The dvi sizing is fixed so the size menu doesn't show up. All the other inputs are adjustable. Other than that I don't know of any menus not being available.

In the (secret) advanced menu, gray scale adjustments are not available on the DVI input. They are also unavailable on any input running 480i. It is possible this may change with the upgraded chips.


__________________

Scottsol,
By upgraded chips, are you referring to the new TV3's with the HDCP compliance?

Tom,
Thanx for the clarification.

AGN

Guys, In the screenshots I took, I notice a cleaner picture with the Single link DVI cable vs the Dual link. Is there any reason for this ?

Should I buy another Single link DVI cable to use witht he HTPC(radeon card) to the DWIN?

I have a dual link for that right now, and I just bought the single link(from what someone said earlier in this post about DWIN recomending a single link) for the HD STB(zenith 520) which I willl use DVI out for.

Thanks for any info,
Fred

By upgraded chips, are you referring to the new TV3's with the HDCP compliance?
Yes! The HDCP issue is not the only one addressed in the update.

Fred,

Are both cables the same length, from the same manufacturer and used for the same amount of time?

The cables are the same manufacturer(Pacific cable), and the dual link is 1 meter, while the single link is 2 meter. The dual link is less than 1 month older then the single link.

Do you think it is worth it for me to buy another single link cable(its only $26.00).

Only you can answer that Fred!

Are you sure you are seeing a better picture with the single link cable? How much difference is there? Can you describe the difference?

Are you sure you just aren't being sensitive to the fact that you have learned that Dwin recommends the single link cable? As far as I know, the only reason to recommend this is because their really isn't any need for a dual link cable at this time, but there shouldn't be any difference in quality AFAIK.

Rob, at the other where I help out, there is a post with the pics. The difference is not small.


If you get a chance, check it out and let me know what you think.

Well, my experience is essentially all with digital audio so this is possibly a faulty extrapolation, but here goes.

If the characteristic impedance of the cables or input/outputs is not well controlled, then a longer cable may have better performance because of the way it handles reflected signals. If the dual link has less than 100 hrs of use and the single link more, there could be a break-in factor. If the dual link uses different windings because of the extra conductors, that could change the characteristic impedance. There might be significant sample to sample variations with this brand .

Conclusion, we don't know if the difference you saw is because of length, age, construction differences or sample to sample variation. Of course, there will be lot of people who won't think that the cables could make a difference in any case.

Of course, there will be lot of people who won't think that the cables could make a difference in any case.

Especially when we are dealing with a "digital" cable. Shouldn't the cable either work or not work, without any real "in between"?

To those who listen with open ears and minds there is no question that digital audio cables make a sonic difference . The most common explanation is that they influence the amount of time jitter in the signal- it is not only important that all the bits are correct, but that their timing is as well. Of course, with elaborate re-clocking circuits or separate clock lines the jitter factor would seem to not be important anymore, but the audible difference is still there.

Now I have always found the difference in audio cables to more easily discernible than video and I, and most people, have no experience yet comparing digital video cables. But there is one thing I am sure of, theory often lags behind experience, and our technical understanding is never complete.

To those who listen with open ears and minds there is no question that digital audio cables make a sonic difference .

I don't want to stray too far from the subject of this thread here, but are you saying there is a sonic difference between digital audio cable and analog, or are you saying there are sonic differences between various digital cables?

I.e, did you use the word "make" when you meant to use the word "have"?

oh no. not the jitter discussion again. let's kill this now.

I hear obvioius sonic differences between different digital audio cables (and transports for that matter).

This is a topic I prefer to avoid discussing on the forum, but Fred deserved an answer to his question.

Originally posted by bhuskins
FYI - I will be taking pictures of the conversion process for the TV3 original to the HDCP fully compliant TV3. Also, the switchover includes a chip for the main board and the DVI I/O board - nothing else. I have the 2 pieces in hand and I really had to beg to be the first in the country to receive the upgrade pieces by themselves. Apparently, they were/are using up all of the new parts on current shipping units and have had difficulty getting enough extras to accommodate the installed units out there. Even though I begged, I only got one full set. I still need several more.

Like I said though, I'll be taking pictures and posting in the next few days.

Brent Huskins
Media Design



Where are you! I've been sitting on the edge of my seat and now it broke!
:confused:

Sorry Don,

I didn't get to take pictures - I was in a hurry to get the unit out. I had stagged a non-upgraded TV3 for about 8 weeks that was for a job needed to be installed this week. DWIN rushed me the parts so that I could install it as an upgraded unit.

Now for the good news...DWIN shipped me the kits for my other installs that were prior to the upgrade. I should have them Monday or Tuesday of next week. I'll make sure when I go over to Toxarch's theater (one of my customers and a regular on AVS here) that one of us takes pictures of the conversion.

I do want to point out that the conversion on my stagged TV3 did correct all known HDCP issues.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Great news, Brent-

How about other settings? Did you need to go in and re-setup all the stuff that was previously memorized on non- DVI inputs?

I suppose Dwin is beginning to ship the parts to dealers now. Hopefully, I'll get mine soon.

Were there any difficulties in the switch over?

No difficulties - took about 20 minutes - I hadn't previously set up this specific unit since it was new, just out of the box...so there was no way to compare it as far as settings go. I'll let you know when we do the others that have been previously set up.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Finally had some time to dig into the projector head and install some dust filters and seal the light leaks from the projector front.

The filter material was obtained from Home Depot.

It is Polyurethane foam air conditioner filter that is 1/4 inches thick. I simply cut it to size and placed it with some gaffers tape.
Note that Gaffers tape is used which is NOT duct tape. Gaffers tape does not shed its adhesive and withstands heat much better.

http://www.scubatech.com/TV3/Main New filter.JPG

Notice the dust accumulation around the lens. This was cleaned off and a strip of filter material taped to the lens barrel that also seals the light leaks from around the lens outside diameter as well. It does not restrict the ability to adjust the focus or zoom.

http://www.scubatech.com/TV3/Filter material.JPG


I also observed that the internal air construction includes two internal fans to force air into the bulb box as well as the back of the lens.

The color wheel and associated electronics is completely exposed so extra care must be taken when getting under the cover of the Dwin Projector.

http://www.scubatech.com/TV3/color wheel.jpg

The bulb mounts in place with screws and wired with screwed down connections as opposed to plug-in design.

http://www.scubatech.com/TV3/Bulb.jpg

Great post Don.

Is there any chance you could post this pics on a seperate website where they could be a little bigger? It's a bit hard to read some of the writing.

Very informative and helpful advice!

Sorry, I did the text layer and then sized the pics up and down to find the right size for this forum. Nothing critical on the text that was not stated in the post.

I'm not sure this is the best solution for the main filter placement. I wanted it inside but in hindsight, I'm thinking it would be better on the outside where I can monitor the dust accumulation and easily remove it to wash or replace without dropping the cover. I plan to redo that soon. I'm concerened that it now is an out of sight and out of mind installation that can accumulate dust buildup on the filter and suffer neglect. If it was on the outside I would see it and quickly clean it as the dust builds up. I'm just sorry I din't think of that earlier. Maybe next weekend, I'll make a bracket or clamp to hold a strip of filter material on the outside.

I would suggest that everyone filter the air as I noticed a significant quantity of dust buildup on the inside of the projector. It has all been carefully removed now. And, when using an air can to spray around the inside, one needs to be very careful around the wheel as this is a very fragile looking setup. It could easily be damaged by the force of an air can, I'd think.

Don, I was thinking about a triangle tube shaped filter for the main intake. That way I could still see how dirty the filter is. Plus the opening behind the intake grill is shaped that way so it would hold the filter against the grill. But you are right, an external filter would be better and easier to clean/replace. And I did like your solution around the lens.

When you had the bulb cover open, did you notice they used spots of silicone on the metal piece holding the bulb? You can see it in the picture of the bulb. Makes me wonder if they were put there "just in case" or if they were loose and rattling at first.

And Brent, I'll have my camera ready for when we do the upgrade. Bring a DVI cable with a Samsung if you have one laying around so we can have a look.

Hi folks,

Your creativity is impressive, but this is ABSURD!!!

A brand new $10,000+ projector and you have to go to Home Depot to buy supplies to keep out dust and to correct light leakage from a supposedly "light sealed cabinet" ?!

I was planning to buy a TV3 within the next few weeks, but I wonder whether DWIN has really gotten their act together yet. Has anyone discussed these issues with DWIN directly, and are they planning to do anything about them?

pkurtis-

I didn't have to go to Home Depot but thought I would list my source in case others wanted to know where to find it.

The point here is that if you think Dwin is any different in this lack of filtration then you are very naive. Nearly all the electronics in my HT lack dust filters on the cooling fans! But, I have to admit, none of them cost as much as the Dwin... well, maybe my Electrohome CRT and guess what? It doesn't have dust filters either. If what we want to do bothers you, might I suggest you consider getting into another hobby, like restoring old cars? If the fans and noise and light spill were not an issue then, I'm sure we "creative types" would have other things we would be doing to tweak that we would be sharing in this thread.
We do expect that Dwin will benefit from this thread and will strongly consider some of the easily fixed issues the owners consider important.

Toxach- I thought of that but decided to curve the filter media so it would have increased free surface area in that triangular space. The way I did it, the metal deflector does not block a portion of the filter media from air flow. Triangular would effectively reduce the free surface area to half the curved surface-
Anyway, I still plan to make an external filter that I can change easily more often than the internal one. I have an idea to make it a C shape on the cross section to increase the surface area.

Yes. I will finally be an official member of the "Dwin TV3 Owners Thread", as I placed my order for a Midnight Blue Dwin TV3 on Friday.

And I am quite confident that I made the right decision.

The minor quirks of the Dwin are being addressed very well in this thread, which I have found to be extremely helpful thus far despite the fact I don't even have my Dwin yet!

Keep up the great work guys.



:)

Don,

I didn't mean to criticize your creative approach to these problems. In fact, because of the many great features, I will probably still buy a TV3 and if necessary end up doing exact what you and others are describing.

That having been said, however, this projector has been on the assembly line at DWIN for at least 2 months, and presumably these problems are already known to them. If so, then 1) why isn't a dust filter already incorporated into the design (as many other projectors have), and 2) why haven't they addressed the issue of light leakage, especially since they are advertising it as a "light sealed cabinet"? Clearly, relatively simple and creative solutions to these problems are available, as you have already described.

Once again, my compliments to you and others for finding practical and simple solutions to these issues. And thanks to everyone else on this thread for sharing your insight with us soon to be TV3 owners.

"I didn't mean to criticize your creative approach to these problems."

And I didn't take it that way. I took it that you expected Dwin to be without any needs or tweaks for the stated sale price. I did find that to be unrealistic, especially considering the company you are in here at AVS. :D

Please realize that by our very nature, we will always find things to improve on. I made several to the Electrohome ECP-4000 that were very simple too in cluding adding a dust filter on those fan intakes!

Anyway, thanks for your complimants on our creativity!

I do agree with you that Dwin has made some claims that are not clearly accurate with respect to "light sealed" They need to remove that IMO!

AS to your question why? on the two issues? I wonder if the previous TV2 had this level of discussion? If so then they need to answer that. If not then maybe you presume too much and they really didn't consider the long term effects of dust inside the projector. What projectors do have easily removable washable air filters on their cooling fans? If all do except Dwin and Electrohome than I guess they are clearly guilty of that too. None of the electronics I have here came with it and therefore I consider the lack of air filters in this industry a norm, rather than an exception. None of my computers have them either. Yet they all collect dust! and all need periodic air blasting. I think the industry needs to address this issue, not just Dwin.

Don,

Points well taken. However, I think that one needs to differentiate between "tweaking", which to me means adjusting or modifying the projector in order to get the best possible picture out of the device, and what you are describing, which is addressing design and manufacturing flaws or shortcomings.

I'm sure that you will agree that there is clearly a difference between putting a filter in audio equipment or computers and video equipment. A little bit of dust shouldn't affect audio equipment or computers, while the same cannot necessarily be said about dust in the light path of an LCD or DLP projector.

By the way, the three projectors that I have owned, a Sharp, Sony and Studio Experience all had filters (but still had problems with dust, requiring periodic cleaning!).

Thanks again for your comments.

I've said it before here and I'll say it again.. Dwin had to know about all the TV3's issues before shipping and chose to go ahead. Call it a business decision, marketing decision or whatever but I'm sure they didn't want to be late in introducing the 2 chip dlp with all the other players in the market. Like other computer related markets it moves so fast that if they came out two months later it would cost them significantly more than replacing boards to fix the hdcp issues and so on.

I do find it amazing though that in some final pre production meeting they fired this thing up and made this remaining issues list:

• hdcp malfunction

• box not sealed

• light spill

• noisier that competitors

• no filtration

And then said go ahead and start the assembly line....

The only reason I can think why a company would do this is the reason I bought the TV3 - because it has enough compelling features that you'll overlook the issues. This will wear thin though when competition heats up and prices come down.

pkurtis-

paragraph 1- You win! I agree with you that tweaking by some definition is adjustments. However, I must admit, I have never restricted myself to that definition. Often, I have added "design changes to a device to get better performance and operability.

paragraph 2-
A bit of dust in the computer has indeed caused significant overheating of the CPU causing complete malfunction-- AKA blue screen of death in the operation. Dust in the ECP-4000 has caused overheating and eventual shortage in the line voltage switch setting it on fire! Dust accumulation in the Panny DST50 tuner has caused overheating resulting in sparklies in the HDTV output. Can't say I agree with you on paragraph 2

Para 3- OK so they made an attempt, maybe, but the "filter" you feel was installed didn't work. So was it a filter? Or, just a screen over the fan to prevent sticking your fingers into the blades? If there is a filter, it should do the job of filtering, otherwise it may have just been a blade guard. Yes, I have seen these in many electronics devices. They are not filters. Filters work! I'm not familiar with your examples so I have to ask the questions above. They are rhetorical questions, BTW, so you don't need to defend them. :)
You still win paragraph #1. I need to find a new way of describing what it is we are doing. Thanks for making me understand.

I spoke with Roger today, and we talked about DVI cables.

I then brought up light spill, and the HDCP chip upgrade. He said that He would need to see what lightspill I was talking about in order to give me a return authorization, and I told him that I would take a few photos and email them to him. I also mentioned the lightspill around the actual lens, and he mentioned something of moving the rubber gasket forward, although I am a bit scared to do it myself.

With the HDCP chips, he said they began to ship to dealers, and more will be out within the next week or so.


What exactly should I photograph, and really show as a problem? I also wonder if they will put a filter in the unit for me?

Please let me know how I should approach them.

Thanks,
Fred

Fred-
Here's the o ring gasket I believe you are referring to. It can be slid forward and then cover the gap between the lens body OD and the case cover ID.

Unfortunately, the crescent light that is what most are seeing is coming from the inside of the projector and through the lens. I'm surprised that Roger and others at Dwin don't recognize this. I have carefully defined several sources of light spill outside the case. I have now eliminated all of them from the projector front but have not tackled the one from the center rear fan output. That's the fan exhausting hot air from the bulb compartment.

Unfortunately, the crescent light that is what most are seeing is coming from the inside of the projector and through the lens. I'm surprised that Roger and others at Dwin don't recognize this.

This surprises me too. According to others, Dwin has indicated that they will "fix" the light spill problem. What light spill problem? Out the back of the pj? The side of the lens? Or, as you state, the more difficult problem of the light coming out of the lens?

Don, I'm loving your pictures!

:)

God. This thread is hard to take sometimes.

The TV3 has three different forms of THE DREADED LIGHTSPILL.

Your machine has them too. Hope you can sleep.

The first is some light leakage from the rear air intake/exhaust vents. This is very minor and really should bother no one when the machine is ceiling mounted. But if you look for it, it will be there.

There is some light leakage from around the lens. The TV3 has an internal gasket to mostly solve this leakage. It is not a complete solution. The gasket can move a little and leak some light. This can be readjusted (even by you Fred :)). A good complete fix is to put a black cloth or something around the outside of the lens, taping it to the front of the beast. Make sure you make a tight hole in the cloth to pass the lens through. This is critical. Failure to make this hole will drastically reduce image quality and if it is not tight it won't block the spill. :)

The last form of light spill is from the lens itself. By spill I mean light coming from (rather than around) the lens that shines on other than the viewing surface of your screen. I do not know if it is caused by the TI chip itself, the lens used by Dwin, or from the internal optics. Nevertheless it is there on the Dwin and on several other projectors. It is a design fault, not a manufacturing defect, and Dwin cannot fix it. It can't be eliminated from the inside. However, it can be eliminated on the outside by a lens mask. The simplest way is to cut a rectangular hole in your lens cap. The part not cut out will block light from the lens from hitting anything other than the screen viewing surface while the cut out part allows the entire viewing surface to be illuminate. Make some sample masks first using cardboard and attach them with tape to the lens. When you find the exact cutout need to KILL THE DREADED LIGHT SPILL use it as a template to cut out your lens cap. Oh yea. The fix isn't worth a damn unless you put the lens cap on the lens.

I'll be gone from Tues through Saturday so I will just have to miss any sarcastic responses to my sarcastic post. Enjoy your machines.

PS. Dwin should come up with a filtering system to keep dust from getting into the light path. This is a fixable design flaw. I have heard of dust getting into several TV3 and it is truly ridiculous for dealers and customers to have to continually blow dust out or jury rig a filtering solution. PKurtis is dead on.

The front light leakage around the lens is easily addressable by a dealer or customer, Likewise the light spill coming from the lens. But not the dust issue. No way.

Wow!

I'm not going to touch that post with a ten foot pole!

;)

Not sure if Mark is defending Dwin or condemning them!

You missed 4 light spills! tsk tsk ysk.

The front intake grill, eliminated automatically when I installed the air intake filter.

The power cord socket- Lined with black gaffers tape.

The DVI socket- same as the power cord.

A gap in the case between the lens and air intake grill. A strip of tape here to stop it too.


Your lens cap solution will eliminate the entire ring of light from the lens but since I can only see that ring as it projects onto the ceiling, a mask over half the lens was all that was needed. I posted this fix earlier.

And something to consider- If you don't seal all these light leaks, adding an intake filter at that grill in the case will only stop a portion of the offending dust intrusion. e.g. notice the little dust accumulations around the lens where that gap that allowed light leakage. It also was an inlet for dust and air.

Rob- I believe Mark is in a hury. Probably has to travel all over the place to fix all the TV3's he's sold and is a bit ticked off at the idea. Hope he notices my post so he won't have to return next week to finish the light spills fix. LOL :D
Hey Mark- Be sure to send Dwin the bill.


Oh BTW- I heard that there IS a fix for the through the lens ring / crescent spill. It consists of an iris like disk located in the light path but it was not describbed where exactly the guy put it. I think I know, now where but I prefer my fix, or Mark's lens cap fix (which I will adapt when I find a second lens cap that fits) as it is very effective and easy.

Man, sounds like this thing got leaks and spills all over the place. I'm expecting mine tomorrow and it's starting to dampin' things a bit. Dwin should have put this in a tub to see how fast it sink before claiming a sealed cabinet.:rolleyes:

Well, I hope the PQ and 2 box set up will far outweight the leakage. Uumm, white or grey tub?:D

Here is what I think was describbed as an idea to internally fix the crescent light spill from the lens. I don't know if it will work and I don't plan to test it but if someone with too much time on their hands wants to tinker? ...

Great post Don. Some really good ideas for those who want to perfect their machines with respect to eliminating all forms of light spill. In reality this does not really have to be done. Fix the front leakage and mask the lens is all that is needed. The other leaks really have no effect on picture quality.

The fact is the Dwin is not light sealed in the way most of us would define the term.

I do criticize the lack of a filter. This is a serious problem which Dwin needs to address. Dwin can easily fix the minor leak problems I failed to address. A few cheap gaskets here and there and ergo no more problems. I think most of the light leakage flaws are issues of quality in a $10K projector rather than issues of absolute functionality. The dust issue however is one of functionality. A product like this should be hang and forget except perhaps for changing a filter once every 6 months or so and of course bulb replacement after a couple of thousands of hours.

Actually my wife, mother in law, and myself are driving to Fort Jackson in SC tomorrow to see my daughter graduate from Army boot camp on Thursday. A long long drive for us, maybe 600 miles or so. Weds is family day and Thursday is graduation. Then Friday is 600 mile drive back day. Fri my daughter is off to Phoenix, Arizona for 4 1/2 months of Army intelligence school. Then she will be stationed for her 6 months active (she is a reservist) at Fort Meade about 1/2 hour from our house. While she is away her boyfriend, ex Army intelligence, is hiking the Appalachian Trail.

Neither Army boot camp nor hiking the big trail is anything I want to personally experience. Ditto for the 1200 mile RT to Fort Jackson but hey being a great Dad is not easy. Nevertheless, it is worth it.

Peace and love all.

Agreed, Mark! You dealers need to be on Dwin so you dealers don't have to finish the construction of the projector! Sealing up all the leaks in the front was indeed easy and Dwin could have done it, ditto on the filter and I still think that my external filter idea should be adopted by them as a retrofit. I plan to construct this later and I will post some pics of it then. I don't like my internal filter but it is doing the job now.
That light spill out the back is more difficult. When I did a simple fix with a French Flag approach it fixed the light spill but deflected hot air and fan noise down on my head as I sat under the projector. I'm still working on ideas for that but as you said that light spill is not really an issue. The main one is the though the lens crescent on the ceiling which is much brighter than the others.

Have fun on your 1200 mile trip. Reserves eh? Yea so was I, Got back from 6 months at Ft. Leonard Wood, Mo and they activated my reserve unit to train SRF for Nam. So much for my idea of being a "weekend" warrior!

Well I think we all agree Dwin could have done a better job with lightspill, filtration and noise. That being said I have been spending considerable time getting these issues taken care of on my own. As some of have read in previous posts my solution was a hush box. Not only does it kill the noise but it allows me to filter the air coming into the box and to diminish all the light spilling out of the projector.

I'm posting all this again in case anyone out there is thinking of doing a hush box, especially on the Dwin. I've learned a few lessons. Most importantly I didn't design very good ventilation for the box, hence I had to take it all apart and start over. Very time consuming. The rebuild finally has it fixed. I enlarged the intake and exhaust openings and put cooling fans up top. The first fans were little dc computer type fans. Way too loud and not very effective without designing a hood. My brother in law the contractor was over Sunday evening and gave me a great idea. He suggested using a bathroom exhaust fan and venting the heat out of the ceiling. Sounded good but my thought was the bathroom fan would be way too noisy. Ignorant I am. The Nutone LS series is quiet; in fact the LS50 I used is so difficult to hear you hardly know it's on. There are other very quiet bathroom fans. The real beauty of using a bathroom fan is the hood it comes with.

The end result is brisk airflow through a layer of fiberglass and foam filters I have on the intake and warm air being pumped out the side of my house through a 4" dryer exhaust. The airflow is so good now that air is flowing in through the lens hole. I am going to cover the lens hole in Plexiglas to further contain noise and to increase filtration and reduce dust.

http://exchange.ucsf.edu/ht/Equipment/project/100_0003_2.jpg
http://exchange.ucsf.edu/ht/Equipment/project/Hush.htm

Some might think this is not something you should have to do and that a properly designed projector would negate doing this. Maybe true but I do know that all projectors produce audible noise and heat in varying degrees. Containing these variables makes the HT experience all the better.

nice exhaust....you can also use an inline duct fan thats a short piece of tube same size as the flex duct, with a fan inside...mount it at the far end of your ducting for silent running..very easy install

Great postings Don L and KraigK. Your solutions are outstanding.

Don - Howabout a better set of pictures like KraigK so we can all benefit from?

vdmai,

You need to put this whole thread into proper perspective.

Let me give you my take on the TV3. It's not necessary to address any of the issues noted on this thread in order to throughly enjoy a world class viewing experience from the TV3. FYI - I haven't touched my PJ, other than to make a lens re-alignment, which was due to a rough shipment (took less than 10 minutes).

I've never seen a perfect PJ, and my guess is I never will, they all have their little crosses to bare.

This thread is about sharing ideas to optimize the performance of the TV3. Most of the people who are contributing ideas are high end videophiles who are in the pursuit of trying to absolutely squeeze perfection out of this baby.

IMO, the only issue that needs to be considered (and is minor at best) is the lens light spill, and Don has provided an excellent and easy fix for that.

Granted, I haven't had a dust problem, but if I do, I will simply clean it out. I'm not installing filters, or hush boxes, or plugging every light leak in the PJ. IMO these things aren't needed in most cases. I'm simply enjoying the ride :)

What I would hate to see happen is to have a potential buyer of the TV3 read this thread and decide not to purchase the TV3 based on what's posted here.

So, take this stuff with a grain of salt and don't worry about your purchase, you just bought one of the best PJ's on the market, you'll love it :)

my tv3 gets a hipower this week to replace the hccv screen for more brightness. Am going 2;35 since i only weatch dvds. By the by, lost in space dvd is as sharp as they come.

samalmoe,

I look forward to hearing about your new hipower screen, as I also have a very large screen in my HT.

I use Lost in Space (the opening scene) as a demo DVD, I agree with you, the picture is as sharp as a razor.

"Don - Howabout a better set of pictures like KraigK so we can all benefit from?"


I intentionally resized the pics in less critical jpgs to 320x240 so they would load faster for slower connects and the fact that I had several to post. Are you suggesting I need to post 1024x768? I already apologized for resizing after I put the text on, should have done it the other way around. That's why I repeated what's there in the post body. If there was something you need to know specifically, just ask in an e-mail and I'll be glad to send you a full size image if you need that to understand something.


I second what Tom said and also would like to clarify why I did what I did on my TV3-

You may recall I stated early on that the main light polution from the TV3 was the one through the lens casting a crescent shape glow on my ceiling. I fixed this as shown but after fixing that, I discovered a much lower intensity series of glows above the projector on the ceiling. While most people will never see these, I decided that due to some mood lighting I was projecting on my ceiling I need to fix this as well because it was disrupting the star pattern I had created. Heck, in bright scenes on the screen you can't see it anyway but it shows up especially during the darker scenes and credits roll where the screen is mostly black. It is important to fix these minior light leaks as they also represent holes where dusty air will be sucked in too. Therefore, I disagree with Mark that one does not need to fix these leaks as they are not only light leaks but also places that dusty air can creep in. It would do little good to put a filter on the main grill if you didn't seal the cabinet completely. The ONLY light leak I have not bothered with has been the rear light leak from the center exhaust fan. This area is the place or source for the noise as well. While I suggested an alternative to fixing this it really isn't that important to me so I will probably leave it alone. I'm more concerned about making an easily removable filter and that is my next priority.

Hi Thomas - I guess my sarcasm was a little out of place since Don and Mark was posting very helpful and relevent issues. I've actually ordered mine a month ago. It just showed up at my work, I don't know how I'm gonna contain myself - 3 hours and counting 'til time to go home with it. I have actually followed the various threads you'd started and posted on regarding the TV3 and others, and I bought it unseen based on a lot of recommendations here, especially from you, Brent, and Don L. Of course, I understand that nothing is perfect and all the flaws discussed here has been very very minor - nothing that couldn't be fixed as Don and KraigK has been generously posting with descriptions and and pictures. Heck, we're in year 5-6 for DVD players and they're still plague with bugs. Am I still going to buy it? Absolutely!!!

Don - Thanks for your offer, I may take you up on that now that I have my own TV3 to tinker with. No need to apologized, you should be commended for your pioneering efforts to maximized the enjoyment of this PJ. It'll be easier to inquire about something now versus before when it's not in front of me. I would imagine that some of these issues are hard to understand for people who doesn't have one in front of them.

This thread is getting long, may be we can start a new thread just posting fixes so it's not so scattered.

Keep up the great work and all the great postings guys! Thanks!!

Hey vdmai,

I just noticed you're a local So Cal. boy. We should get together for a viewing, Rob and Glen are local as well and come by my HT on a regular basis to compare HT equipment and shoot the bull.

When I complete the finish work in my HT I'm going to have a celebration party and invite the local AVS nerds, I'll give you a PM and let you know when.

Good luck with the install, and if I was you I'd find a reason to leave early:)

I agree with Thomas in saying that someone who reads this thread might get scared off from the TV3. I would still buy this thing again because of the inputs and picture. Thomas is right as well in saying that we (I can speak for myself) tweak and tweak trying to squeeze every bit out of our setups. But I do feel like I have some reference here. I've used many, many business projectors and have seen many ht projectors in the last year. I jumped into the foray with a Yamaha LPX-500 earlier this year and it was stellar in all the areas that the Dwin is weak. Out ot the box without dust on the lens, noise not needing to be hushed, all menus easily accessible, no light spill. So why did I get rid of it? Not enough inputs, not good enough a picture.

I really am not wanting this thread to be a bitch session for TV3 owners. I point out all of these shortcomings in hope that Dwin will read these comments and think of them when trying to get the TV4 out the door.

It might be well to consider what effect a filter may have upon the operating temperature of the TV3. A filter (by definition) blocks the air flow, restricting the available cooling designed into the DWIN device. I know from decades of experience with Whisper Fans (quiet 5" muffins) that air filters of various densities will trap unwanted dust, cat hair, etc. and also constrict the air flow. In therory, this will result in a higher temperature inside our projector case than in DWIN's lab prototype.

Obviously, that will reduce bulb life and bake the other elements. Maybe it can take it. Maybe it can't. Keep us posted, please.

That's a good point HDJ. I think this can also apply to Hush Boxes (especially home made ones).

I think we would be ok if we cleaned the filter frequently, which is why Don is suggesting that an external filter be made.

As far as the "flavor" of this thread, I definitely look at the big picture. Despite the minor flaws that have been pointed out in this thread, I still went ahead with ordering the Dwin as I feel that it offers me more of what I have been looking for in a projector than the competition.

Rob:

And so will I, using the same reasoning. (I've been following the DWIN offerings since CES 2000 - It's been quite a trip!!) Even back then, long before there was any product to ship, it earned my "Best of Show #3," right behind Vidkon and the Sim 2 Millennium (both CRT's).

By the way, I find it ironic that this thread reflects some complaints about noise. The earlier DWIN CRT models had won the attention of film and video re-recording studios because of its silent operation (no fans as I remember), allowing ceiling installation right above the audio mixer's and the client's heads.

In some cases, this relieved the IATSE projection booth operator of his function (and his paycheck).

Wow...nearing 400 posts on a pj that is "plug and play"

Hmmm...

While my home made hush box is one ugly beast I can attest to the fact that I have so much air flow through the box (filtered air mind you) that it is running at a cooler temperature than when it just hung on the ceiling sans the hush box. With the bright beam on I can see dust particles flowing into the lense hole on the front of the box. I'll cover the lense whole with plexiglas tomorrow to further isolate the airflow to go through the filters. Do I sound happy about this bathroom fan I installed? You bet I am, this thing works like crazy and is completely inaudible.

kraig...use coated port glass for lens hole...optically clear and doesnt reflect light back...edmond scientific has it as do pro projection dealers

Thanks for the tip Salamoe! I'm in the process of building my room, and I have a 8" x 8" port opening on the back in my equipment room for the DWIN. I was wondering about what glass to cover the port with. Now I know!

My original plan was to just cut a circular opening and shove the lens through the hole, but that was before I fell in love with the DWIN! Now that I have the DWIN, I had to rework the hole to accommodate the DVI cable and power cable inputs (not to mention the air intake). This actually works out better as it is starting to look like a real theater (bigger port hole). I have an exhaust fan (read: return air) in my equipment room close to the projector. The return air vent has a large fan to pull heat from the room. This is located on the other side of the house, so it keeps things quiet.

Back to the port hole (man is this post all over the place!), I sheetrocked the entire theater room, but cut the 8" x 8" hole for the projector. Inside the equipment room, I left a 15" x 15" area UN-sheetrocked so I could get the DWIN up closer to the sheetrock side of the theater room. The 15" x 15" square area was covered with sheet rock (so it looks finished) and then was painted black to reduce reflections. Looks very cool. I'll take some pictures along the way for those interested.

So in sum...thanks!

Chris

Samalmoe - good call. Amazingly cheap too. You learn something everyday..

chris..don't forget to make your opening so you can see out to focus etc. i made mine big and have a board with a hole which i put back when i'm done

That last comment brought an image to mind from a great movie, "Cinema Paradiso" when the little boy is peeping through the very hole that samalmoe described above to watch the movie!

Classic! :)

iforgot to mention chris...when you install port glass tilt it down 5 degrees so light isnt reflected back into lens...

"Don - Thanks for your offer, I may take you up on that now that I have my own TV3 to tinker with. No need to apologized, you should be commended for your pioneering efforts to maximized the enjoyment of this PJ."

I do have most of the pictures in original res so if you need them, just say so.


HDJ-
Determination of filter efficiency can certainly be measured by the delta T of the exhaust air. I did use this as a way to determine any predictable detrimental effects on the projector. Filters are by definition not a restriction in air flow but rather a design limitation. By definition they are in pure form a method to remove undesirable foreign matter from the air.
In this case it is a desirable function to maintain the air velocity across the heat radiators within the projector. No need to get into all the fancy schmancy air heat exchanger calculations but trust me, I can do that even if it would be quite impractical in such a complex device. (Past career as a Chem Engr with 2 years experience in spray dryer design) Anyway, the easy way is to determine the detrimental effects of adding a filter is to know the temperature change before and after adding the filter. Then monitoring the temperature increase as the air flow velocity diminishes with the cross sectional area decrease due to dust buildup on the filter media. In absence of a visual on the filter itself, one could monitor the exit air flow temperature and when it gets to a dangerous level have a cut off to protect the equipment. When I had the PJ apart, it appeard to already have a temperature sensor on the bulb housing that may be there to do just that. There may be other sensors that I did not see. Need me to post another picture of it? :)
FYI- The measured temperature of the exit air from the center fan was 92 degrees before adding the filter and the same after adding the filter. I'm sure there was a theoretical increase but in this case with my filter design, the delta T was basically zip! Or, not worth worrying about.

Now for the controversey- In good analysis one has to consider the dust build up on the filter and how this will reduce air flow velocity as well as increase temperature. This as compared to no filter and allowing the dust to deposit through out the internal areas of the PJ resulting in reduced heat convection within the internal parts of the projector not to mention the reduced optical properties of dirty lenses. Considering this, a filter of proper design that does not significantly affect the air flow and exit air temperature when clean is the desired approach. Then the ability to conveniently clean or replace the filter is taking this to what I call a good design that is amenable to long term safe clean operation.

An idea for those who wish to get fancy with the temperature monitoring of exhaust air on the TV3:
I have used Radio Shack remote LCD temperature sensors on my editing equipment and scsi drive towers for years. I have the probes located in the most critical areas and this way I operate the equipment for months and then when I notice the temperatures higher than normal, I schedule the equipment for pulling and cleaning of the dust buildup. The equipment design is too open to work for filtration so I just maintain the dust buildup on the basis of temperature.

disk drive tower and CPU. The probes in the CPU actually is sensing a layer between a daughter card and the main editor board that gets quite hot without enough air flow. Normal is about 114 F but if it gets to 120 F I pull the CPU tower and clean out the dust with an air hose off a scuba tank.

http://www.scubatech.com/TV3/tempmon.JPG

Hello all,
I will be a member of the TV3 owner's club (in 3-4 weeks) - YAY! Most of our tv usage is sourced from my Sony T60 Directivo - you can't pry that little device from my cold dead fingers. It only outputs 480i via S-video. Do any of you have this setup? If so, can you comment on the image? Also, if you use the scan function on the Tivo, does the pj lose sync? FYI, if it will help - I have a dedicated room with total light control, dark gray walls, soon to be dark gray carpet, gloss black on the screen wall and shadowbox, and plan on getting a Stewart 4 way electrimask Studiotek 130 screen.

I don't plan on getting an HD receiver yet because none of the D* sets have PVR/Tivo capability yet; I read that this will supposedly be available at the end of this year or beginning of next. Do any of you use the DVHS format? Are these VCR's hooked up using the component video connectors?

Thanks,
AGN

Rooney,

Congratulations on purchasing the best buy on the market in digital projectors:)

I'm running the JVC 30k D-VHS deck via component feeds and it's simply breathtaking. Every time I demo a D-Theater movie people are blown away by the quality of the picture.

I'm considering connecting the D-VHS unit via Firewire to an HD box and then connecting the HD box via DVI to the TV3, this will give me recording capability on the D-VHS unit as well as a complete digital feed. However, I would be hard pressed to believe the playback quality difference between DVI and Component would be significantly improved.

The D-VHS D-Theater movies are clearly a cut above DVD, the same is true for my component connected Samsung 151 OTA HD receiver.

Good luck

Thomas,

I appreciate the offer to visit your HT, that sounds very nice. It would be good to meet with some of the locals, I've never done anything like that before.

Couldn't make an excuse to leave early yesterday, it pays to be responsible to fuel this hobby. I was only able to visually inspect the units last night, but will give it a shot tonight.

I'd love to see D-VHS in action, but aren't the titles limited right now? Does it play regular VHS?

vdmai,

Yes, the titles are limited, but the PQ is amazing.

Yes, they do play standard VHS, with far superior playback quality than a conventional VHS deck I might add.

FYI - You can find extensive information on this technology in other areas of the forum. D-VHS and D-Theater technology is a very controversial subject on this forum, take a peek and see what you think.

I am converting our bonus room into a dedicated HT. It's not totally finished, but I mounted the TV3 and screen (Studiotek 130) yesterday. I have total light control and am thrilled with the picture. I have not installed my speakers (7.1) but I have been playing with various inputs, (Bravo D1, Cable HD & SD, & DirecTivo). I have black GOM fabric walls and painted my ceiling black.

Questions:

For those of you with the 16:9 StudioTek130, what are your settings with the Bravo DVI connection and DirecTV?

I tried Letterbox for the DirecTV signal and I think I like it better than a 4:3 image, but it cuts a little off the bottom and top. What do others select?

I tried various DVD's and they look great! The Patriot (superbit edition), however, has two bars, both above and below the picture, the one closest to the picture is a lighter gray and the other one a darker gray. Has anyone else experienced this?

The Bravo setup requires you to select the format, 1080i, 720p, etc. What should I select? Do I change this for various DVD's?

Thanks

I tried various DVD's and they look great! The Patriot (superbit edition), however, has two bars, both above and below the picture, the one closest to the picture is a lighter gray and the other one a darker gray. Has anyone else experienced this?

"The Patriot", like most big budget action films ( and others as well) was shot with as aspect ratio (width/height) of about 2.35:1, while your screen has a ratio of about 1.78:1 (16:9). On these "Panavision" films the picture will not fill the full height of your screen, but you will see the movie as it was shot.

Was the lighter bar on top or bottom, and is your projector ceiling or floor mounted?

the darker bar is at the top and the bottom with the lighter bar is between the darker bar and the picture. My projector is mounted on the ceiling.

How big are the lighter bars vs the darker bars? Do you have any other "panavision" movies to compare to?

Geez... What can I say that hasn't been said several times before?

bstrong, please do not be offended but your post in this TV3 owners thread reads like a dealer advertisement. Not considered cool in these parts considering AVS is a dealer owned and run forum. While many dealers post here, offering mucho assistance, they all pretty much refrain from advertising their business. In addition, I had asked that this thread be dedicated to ideas and tweaks (modifications too) for owners of the TV3 to share to improve owner experience.
I also asked that we owners try to contain our this vs. that or just "I think the TV3 is better than all others" posts for other threads, reserving this one for just sharing of how we operate, install, and modify the TV3.
Frankly, I'd be very pleased if all those who have posted a pure TV3 is the greatest" post with nothing else to offer, delete it by clicking on the edit button and checking delete so the thread size will be more friendly to those in search of the tweaks and modifications.

Don,

You took the words right out of my mouth...I just didn't want to be the one to say it...

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Regarding the dual gray bars with the Patriot on my 16:9 screen, and also Attack of the Clones - using Bravo D1 with DVI connection. The gray bars are approximately the same size. What is also strange is that when the intros - "In a galaxy.." are showing, there is only the darker gray bars at the top and bottom- when it shifts to the picture, the picture is reduced in height and the light gray bars appear. I tried 1080i, 720p and 480p on the D1 but no change.

dennis..if the bravo is set for 16;9 and the dwin is on anamorphic 480 it should work

My TV3 arrived yesterday! Thanks to the information in this thread, I went with a TV3. I haven't had a chance to hook it up yet, but it looks damn good in minight blue. Now if only the screen would arrive so I can see it in all its glory.

Thanks to everyone in this thread for your valuable information.

Very cool godavego, and congrats!

What screen are you going to be using?

samalmoe - you are correct - I had my TV3 set to letterbox instead of anamorphic.

Thanks

Dennis

Thought I should throw in. My TV3 arrived and was just unpacked last night. It is now is waiting patiently (actually impatiently) for a room to be painted. I'll be using a Studiotech 130 110" diag. I'm a little concerned about color enhancement from that screen mentioned earlier in this thread. Has anyone had any experience with this pj/screen setup? My screen's on the way and I can't wait for it to be ready!

Thanks!

Hi Everyone,

A quick update on my continuing D1 and 931 experience.

I will probably make a post on the DVD side of the world as well, but because I'm running these with the TV3, and I know many of you have expressed an interest in these units, I will post here first.

I have spent considerably more time tuning my Bravo D1, and I must say the picture is now a touch better IMO than the Samsung. There is slightly less noise in the picture, so this really helps in some of my DVD's that have poor transfers. When viewing DVD's with excellent transfers it's not as noticeable, both units look great.

However, I'm afraid there is some bad news as well. My Bravo D1 is freezing on almost every movie I play now, usually about two thirds into a movie. The unit completely freezes up and I have to kill the power and restart the movie. This is totally unacceptable to me and I'm going to send the unit in for repair. Have any of you D1 owners seen this type of problem?

I'm now using the 931 exclusively after three movies in a row froze up on my D1 this weekend, and I must say the 931 is functionally performing to my expectation level (i.e. no technical issues).

I will keep everyone posted on my progress.

Oh, by the way, I'm still in PJ heaven and my wife is starting to wonder what happened to her husband :)

Rob, I went with a 100" Firehawk. The Firehawk was recommened to me because I will be entertaining with some ambient light in addition to watching movies. After reading this thread, I hope I made the right choice. DWIN says go with a white screen. Stewart says go with the Firehawk. Since the price is the same for both Stewart materials, I don't see a bias from Stewart's perspective. I can see some marketing reasons for DWIN to suggest white material only because that implies that blacks are better.

My screen is still on the way, but I was able to try out the projector by tacking a bed sheet up on the wall. Even with only a sheet, it looked great. Fan noise was not really a factor, and I only noticed a small light leak in the back the unit. Given the leak is in the back, I'm not worried about it. The picture was fantastic!

Godavego,
I read a review of someone using the TV3 with both a white and the firehawk. The reviewer noted that the whites were nearly the same, blacks a little stronger on the firehawk but the fire performed better with some ambient light. I am still in the plannign stage as I save some doe to buy the TV3 (I am so FREAK'n jealous of you all!) and had originally planned on the vutec brightwhite for $500 but am now shifting towards the $1400 firehawk because I plan to watch TONS of football and I do have some ambient light issues with daytime viewing.
FREAK!

Thomas.
Is your D1 from the first round produced (that were not HDCP compliant and had freezing issues and others) or from the most recent shipments that were suppose to correct those problems?
Freak!

thomas...my bravo is starting to freeze also..seems to be nature of the beast...its from second batch...........a couple more freezes and it might be samsungtime. my hipower should arrive any day now.

Gee wiz, I lost my last two posts due to AVS server shut downs. Hopefully this one will make it to the board.

Freak,

Unfortunately, my D1 is from the second batch. I’m going to call V Inc. as soon as I get the time and see what they say.

Salamoe,

Sorry to hear you’re having the same problem, not good news. Yes, perhaps the 931 is a good idea, I’m really glad I have mine as a backup.

I look forward to hearing about your hipower.

Not good news re: the Bravo. Looks like there might be a QC issue? I hope I have better luck with mine (if I ever get it hooked up!).

godavego: I have seen the Firehawk with the Dwin many times. You will not be disappointed!

Just spoke(and emailed) Roger @ DWIN. I told him that I took the photos of the light spill, and asked to let me know what can be done to fix the TV3. We went a little into the lack of a filter on the TV3, and he responded that the TV2 didn't have one(and didn't need one), so they were not planning on doing so at the moment. I attached several pics to the email displaying the light spill on the ceiling, around the lens, and the plug, so I guess I will see what he says. I am very happy with the unit now, and I don't know if I will be able to live without it for 2 weeks:D

Fred- I was planning to photo that through the lens light spill at one time. Did you have to use a timed exposure to get it?

Don,
I tool several pics:one of the ring around the lens leaking, and a few of the ceiling(looking straight up from under the DWIN). I will let you know what Roger has to say, although do you guys buy the claim that no filter is needed? Here is a pic of the cresent on the ceiling:

And here is the lens leak

And here is a shot of the front panel leaking

Would everyone share their calibration settings? I'd like to get a feel for what numbers everyone is arriving at when making their pciture adjustments. Does anyone do it with Colorfacts, light meters, etc.? I struggle to get things just so with the Avia disk.

Kraig,

I missed your post yesterday. I will re-check my settings and post them as soon as I can.

Edit - This assumes your interested in the user menu settings, not he service menu settings.

Also, I believe the current version of AVIA (at least the disk I used) is not setup to properly handle digital feeds (it's analog based), as such, a couple of the settings panels/screens weren't of much use to us (i.e. we basically winged it). However, the results so far are excellent IMO.

I was told AVIA is going to release a digital version that will be more effective.

Thanks Thomas. Ideally everyone will post settings, both service menu and not. I would find it interesting to compare say 5 or 10 different setups and see the differences. I'll post my own later..

I recently added the DirecTV HDTV package here and have spent most of my time watching the HDNet movies. Many of these are older movies. I have noticed a severe wash out in many of the scenes on the TV3. The blacks were often way too washed compated to real high quality HDTV like the main HDNet channel with a basketball game.
Consequently, I have found the need for two calibrations in the Dwin to make the pictures look good to my eyes.
For HDNet live high def I use a brightness setting of 48. For HDNet movies, old ones I have found the need to adjust this to 21 for good blacks. I leave the contrast setting at 75.

I have not yet examined the CRT to see what happens. I don't think this is a DirecTV issue nor do I think it is a transfer issue, rather it seems to be that some of Mark's older movies were just not done as good with the film processing because I have noticed some scenes (in the same movie) were just fine at the higher brightness setting.

So help me out on this conflict. How do you all deal with a changing source on the same input of the Dwin? I would guess that a Firehawk my have some advantages in this conflict.

contrast 85
brite 40
color 38
sharp 0
tint 40 with dvi

Don,

Basically you get one set of setting per port/feed as I understand it. I had the same problem as I was feeding 3 Component input feeds via my amplifier to one of the Component input ports on the Dwin controller (i.e. all three feeds use the same settings, only option is to change the setting).

Would be a nice capability if you could store multiple settings for the same port.

As far as the quality difference on your DirecTV, my guess is this would be a problem with any PJ you use.

I don't use DirecTV at this point, Adelphia is just around the corner with HD content, so I'm waiting for that.

As far as my Samsung 151 goes, I'm only using it for OTA HD and it's fairly consistent in quality of viewing with my setup.

Occasionally I will adjust the picture when I watch sporting events. However I consider this SOP, every display device I've ever owned always required separate settings for sporting events and movie material.

"always required separate settings for sporting events and movie material."

I think that answers my question.

Originally posted by Fred DeGrandis
Just spoke(and emailed) Roger @ DWIN. I told him that I took the photos of the light spill, and asked to let me know what can be done to fix the TV3. We went a little into the lack of a filter on the TV3, and he responded that the TV2 didn't have one(and didn't need one), so they were not planning on doing so at the moment. I attached several pics to the email displaying the light spill on the ceiling, around the lens, and the plug, so I guess I will see what he says. I am very happy with the unit now, and I don't know if I will be able to live without it for 2 weeks:D

Can't wait to hear his response...

Nothing yet:(

I sent the email on Tuesday night, how long should I wait to send a follow up email reminding him I am still here?

Fred

The contractors finished the room and the first thing I did was hang my new TV3 from the ceiling. Screen's not in so I played it on a white blanket. Still looked pretty impressive. It's really great to finally be a "member of the club."

As the newest member of the TV3 club, I have a really stupid question. Do you leave the lens cap on when you are not using the pj? When I took mine out of the plastic bag the factory sealed it in and initially took off the cap to fire it up, I could already see dust on the lens. I'm sure this will get much worse over time but will probably be minimized with the lens cap. Also, when it does get dusty, what do you guys do to clean it?

I know these are really basic questions, but this is my first projector and I don't want to do anything detrimental to it.

Thanks.

Congrats on the Dwin cgauntt!

I don't have mine yet, but it's on its way. I definitely plan on putting the lens cap on after I am done using the projector. It will help keep dust off the lens.

Regarding cleaning, photography is a hobby of mine, so I have lens cleaner and lens cleaning paper that I plan to use. You can get these items at any camera shop.

Good luck and enjoy your new Dwin!

:) :) :) :) :)

Hi All,

Count me in as another new TV3 owner. I bought mine unseen and from what posts here, I hope I 've made the right choice regardless of some minor issues mentioned here. I'm sitting next to the two boxes here waiting for my 110" Studiotek to arrive some time next week. This is my first ever front projector and I'll hook it up with my Panny RP91. I'd like to thanks all here to have such a wonderful thread. Head up for Mr. Nice Guy, Brent Huskins.

HAVE A GOOD AND SAFE 4TH OF JULY !

Tony

Looks like there is no end to the number of new TV3 owners!

Tony, have you considered purchasing a DVI capable DVD player such as the Bravo D1 or Samsung? Most owners report fairly substantial improvement over component based DVD players.

Let's discuss lens cleaning-
From a professional angle- (with cameras)

Lenses usually have a coating on them. This coating is very easily scratched. You should never touch the lens glass with your finger as the finger print left will be most difficult to clean off without scratching the coating. Nearly impossible. Nearly all photographers I know buy and keep on a 1A filter on their lens and rarely remove it, thus protecting the delicate coating. Now all they need to do is clean the filter as the air space between the filter and the lens glass is dust free. Of you must cleaning the dust particle off your projector lens, hit it with a blast of air from one of those air cans. If the dust particle is stubborn, use a lens brish obtained from a camera store. These have a squeeze bulb to blast a bit of air as you brush. IF by some dumb chance you did get a finger print on the lens glass, get some lens cleaner from a photostore and some lens cleaner paper from KODAK brand and cleani the finger print off wiping the wet paper gently to remove the print. It is unlikely that you will leave the lens factory new clean and scratch free even with this process but the scratches most likely will be so small that they will not be visible in your image.
While it is best to keep the lens cap on all the time, that becomes one of those little things you will most likely relax as your projector gets older. I even know some professional videographers, especially news photogs using station equipment who never use a lens cap but just clean off the filter before each shoot. I di use a lens cap and filter on all my cameras but I admit that I do not use my Dwin lens cap when I shut off the projector. Once or twice a week I air blast the lens with a can of clean air. Having my 40% lens covered has not seemed to reduce the 2-3 dust particles I see sit on the lens after a week of uncovered use. My room, I believe has moderate dust in the air for what ever than means.
In my own environment, I was more concerned about the internal dust build up inside the projector from the circulating fans than the lens. Thus I place far more importance on the need for a fliter on the air intake of the projector as well as seal up all air intake leaks like around the lens and the connector plugs.

Again, the most important point is to Never ever touch the lens and if you must break that rule, touch the lens with a photo shop purchased air brush and in the case of a need to remove a finger print, use lens tissue and lens cleaning fluid and also resolve yourself you will scratch the coating in that process.

One more thing, the main reason why I keep lens cleaner and paper for my proferssional cameras on hand is to clean the filter that protects my lens. Then it usually only needs cleaning because someone I'm interviewing has a habit of spitting on the lens as he is talking. Yes, that happens more often than you'd think in my business. :(


I suppose the obvious next question is, should one obtain a clear filter for the projector? I can't answer that but personally, I plan to use the air can once a week and not worry about it. As I said, the fans collecting dust is a far more serious dust problem and by my observation in the first weeks of ownership, it really scared me as to the volume of dust collected inside the box. Dwin MUST do something about this. When I get my final design with the external filter, I plan to send those photos to Dwin, not to the engineer but to the marketing people with the evidence photos showing what dust collected with and without the filter in place. They can deny the need all they want in their "clean room" laboratory but I use my Dwin in Florida where we have lots of pollen in the air and it is not a laboratory but a true home environment where people and pets live.

Well said Don. I agree that lens cleaning fluid should only be used when the lens becomes very dirty, such as when it gets fingerprints etc. This shouldn't happen too often with a projector.

Regarding the use of a 1A filter, does the Carl Zeiss lens on the Dwin have threads on it to allow a filter to be screwed in directly?

Don & Rob,

Thanks for the help. Don, thanks especially for the very detailed discussion. Guess it wasn't such a dumb question after all. Fortunately, I have not gotten fingerprints on the lens and, after heeding your warnings, I'll be especially careful not to! When you get a filter design developed, please post the info about it on this site. I live in Houston, with almost identical conditions as you described and my home gets dusty, too.

Last initial observation -- man this thing really does spill light on the ceiling above the pj and from behind. I painted my ceilings flat black so it doesn't distract as much, but it certainly is significant.

Fred, let us know if you hear from Dwin on this.

Thanks again for all the helpful info.

Chad

Chad-

I may get to the filter tomorrow because a client failed to ship some stuff to me to work this weekend so. I'm OFF for the movies in my HT! :)

The light spill can be mostly eliminated with the 40% matte I showed earlier in this thread. The other spills are much dimmer but require additional measures I showed as well. Please look them up.

Another member posted a more elaborate modification to the lens cap you may wish to consider. While my half matte solves all my through the lens light polution, I think if you are close to the floor or walls you may need to go to the square all sides mask or matte that grabs the balance of the through the lens spill. You'll have to experiment to see what your environment requires.

Thanks Don.

FYI, I used canned air to spray the dust off my lens and, I guess due to the condensation or change in air pressure, it put a slight ice coat on a portion of the lens which appears to have stained the lens!!!! So, if you're doing this, hold the can away. I have a silk camera lens cloth I used to try to get the stain off and it came mostly off, but still a bummer.

I'll look for the modification you posted. Thanks,

Chad

Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
Looks like there is no end to the number of new TV3 owners!

Tony, have you considered purchasing a DVI capable DVD player such as the Bravo D1 or Samsung? Most owners report fairly substantial improvement over component based DVD players.

Rob,
Yes I'll get a DVI capable DVD player as soon as more of them is coming out (Sony, Panny, Pioneer, Denon) with a universal DVD-A/SACD player. My RP91 is fine for now. I'm saving every penny for the Direct TV/HDTV tuner(Samsung TS160) after spending quite a bit of money for the TV3 + screen.
One question though, What kind of gaming system are we here using for this TV3? Play Station2, Game Cube, etc.. Which one is the best match for the TV3? I'm also planning to get one. Can y'all tell it's getting expensive? Thanks again.

Tony

Wow, Don... I feel like I should be running out to buy a lens filter for my Dwin... Do you know of anybody doing this with a digital FP?

xkode-
Think we're using confusing names here "filter"

No lens filter at all. I use them on the camera to protect the lens from foreign matter but for the projector, I just use the duster air can. Chad- Never hold that can's nozzle tube so close as to overly cool the lens to frost it. That is indeed damaging. All you need to do is get enough air turbulance to blow the dust particles all the glass.

When I talked about putting a filter on my TV3 I was referring to the air intake foam filter, not a piece of glass for the lens. :)

Thanks to Samalmoe for the port hole glass recommendation!

http://exchange.ucsf.edu/HT/Equipment/project/box_ext5.JPG

The interesting result of this last modification to the hush box is that the sound is even less (as expected) but what I didn't expect is the operating temperature to go down. I have a sensor in the box that reported an operating temperature (before glass) of 79.2-79.8 degrees. After installing the glass the temperature is 74.8-75.5. I think this is good for bulb life as well as the intake air being forced through the foam and fiberglass filters up top.
http://exchange.ucsf.edu/HT/Equipment/project/100_0003_2.jpg

For those bothered by the noise and light spill consider a hush box.

don... so you wouldn't put a filter on your PJ just to be extra sure nothing ever came in contact with it? any recommendations on the compressed air or just use what any photo store has?

No I didn't put a 1A or any other glass filter on it and I don't plan to. The lens just doesn't get that dirty just sitting there. The grills and anywhere there is forced air for cooling, on the other hand, accumulates lots of dust. I plan to make the new filter design (external) this weekend.

I fixed up my lens with the gaffer's tape as suggested by Don and it makes a world of difference. Like the general concensus, I can definitely live with the remaining light spill with the mask keeping the crescent off the ceiling. However, with the tape on the lens, I can't get my lens cap on. As a new owner who has already once tried to screw up my lens, I'm presently sort of paranoid. I have e-mailed Dwin to ask about purchasing a second lens cap that I could modify to pop on before watching a movie and then repace it with the regular lens cap after using the pj.

Has anyone tried to purchase a second lens cap, yet? If so, any success?

Don, any progress on the external air filter. After reading about your experience with the dust build up on the inside of the pj and seeing dust specs in the air when the pj is playing, I'm really anxious to see your fix since I'm not too creative myself.

Last question - I haven't seen any pictures of people's ht rooms on this thread. Is that a no-no?

Thanks,

Chad

Does anyone have any more details on the TV3's scaler? The spec sheet that came with the unit is a bit lacking. I'm about to order a new DVD player (most likely the Bravo D1) to take advantage of the DVI input on my TV3. I'm curious why I should let the DVD player do any scaling when I have a several thousand dollar scaler in the TV3. Does the TV3 scaler only scale to 1280x720, or does it handle 3:2 pulldown conversion of film sources as well. I would hope that the TV3's scaler would be a little better than whatever is in a $200 DVD player.

In other forums, I've seen several discussion where people would have their DVD player output in native 480i and let their external scalers handle the rest. For a while Meridian even had a $3000-4000 player that would not even output 480p. The thought was if you have enough to drop on a player that expensive, you probably already have a scaler.

What's the best setup to use with my TV3? I'm about to replace an old Rotel DVD player using 480i over component cables. I'm still waiting for my screen, but the picture looks great on a bedsheet. However, I haven't really looked for 3:2 pulldown artifacts, nor have I seen any with casual viewing.

I should probably let someone else who can speak from personal experience answer, but many who have posted results with the Bravo D1 indicate that outputting 720p looks the best.

I have seen a Samsung DVI DVD player with a Dwin (at Thomas Marshall's HT) and it looked fantastic!

I also have a Sammie 931 going to a Marantz S2 via DVI at 720p and let me tell you....Its simply gorgeous. And for what its worth I really don't see all the bad EE that this player is supposed to add the picture. This is a great combo.

My Samsung HD931 looks awesome thru the DVI output. When I was playing it on 480p, it looked good but I didn't know what all the fuss was about. When I figured out how to play it on 720p, it was significantly better. I also have a Sony 999ES that I have been playing 480p thru component. I'd be very hard pressed to choose which picture looks better, although I would imagine the Sony audio processing is much better than the Sammy. (I'm still waiting on my amp.) The Sammy is sharper, but the Sony looks more "film-like" IMO. Either player is awesome but, for $275 vs. $1,000, I'd go with the Sammy hands down.

Chad

P.S. Can anyone tell me why 1080i does not work with the DVI output from the Sammy to the Dwin?

I also have a Sammie 931 going to a Marantz S2 via DVI at 720p and let me tell you....Its simply gorgeous. And for what its worth I really don't see all the bad EE that this player is supposed to add the picture.

I agree. I didn't notice any added EE with the Samsung either, and I was looking for it. Thomas Marshall has a 133" Firehawk, so if there was EE, we should have been able to see it.

Just got my ST130 up this weekend and noticed a coloration or shadowing at the bottom right hand of the screen. It is definately the PJ since I tried the lense shift and it moved with the image. It's not a great picture but you can still see the effect. It looks like it is thickest at the right edge and gradually slopes to the left.

Is this a defect??

What do you guys think?


-sonny

Sonny,

Something isn't right but likely it is user correctable - I know you've heard this before but I would call Rodger at DWIN x106. You may have to pop the top but that's better than sending the unit to them.

Brent Huskins
Media Design
(817)300-1223

Looks like it goes out of focus lower right. Double check to make sure your projector is mounted properly. Perpendicular angles to the screen and level. Beyond that, there may be something partially blocking the light path before it gets to the lens. Anywhere from the bulb to the lens would also cause this corner focus problem. Something may have gotten knocked out of alignment in the shipping.

Also noticed the upper left corner is not properly angled either. This along with lower right is why I suggested you examine the projector mounting alignment.


Noticed the bottom center in the black that you have a blue line. I wonder where this is coming from?

Do you have the projector mounted and adjusted with the picture height at an extreme of adjustment?

Don:

I do have it mounted at the extreme distance. For a 92", I have it at 14' from the wall. Then the screen brings it probably 2-3" closer. Just enough to overscan a hair. That blue line at the bottom away from the screen is my center channel reflecting the light. Its not nearly as noticable as it is in the picture. I am pretty sure that I have it square with each other. I made sure the test patterns were spot on. I'll give DWIN a call today and see what happens.

Thanks,
Sonny

I had the same issue. Call DWIN and they will talk you through the fix...takes about 5 minutes.

Has anyone received their new DVI boards for the first TV3's? If so, How easy was the swap?

So Cary- What was the problem?

Cary:

I see you are in Phoenix. Can you check a web site for me and just tell me yes or no whether you can get it?

www.video-arizona.com

All of the HDCP upgrade boards and chips have been sent out to dealers...If you have an "old" TV3 then you should already have your new board. If not, call your dealer ASAP.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

We are getting ready to Sheetrock the dedicated HT. I need to know where the best place to place the electrical outlet and conduit for the DVI cable relative to the projector would be.

I know the cable and power cord come out the front of the pj. Are people putting the outlet and conduit near the front to the side, or more to the back and side?

Also, I asked this previously and thought I knew the answer, but it really isn't that clear on the Dwin website....exactly how far from the front of the Dwin mount is the actual lens?

Thanks!

I put my outlet behind my PJ on the left side and dropped the cable on the front left corner just in front of where the PJ is mounted. Dwin recommends both be slightly in front of and to the left if you're facing the PJ. But, they also supply a 6 foot power cable. I replaced mine with a 22" Cobalt Cable power cable. The power cable's on order but I'll post a pic when it comes in and is installed.

Chad

I spoke to roger and this is what he told me.

I opened the projector and I was surprised how much stuff is exposed. I mean one slip and there goes the color wheel.

Anyway, so if you follow the color wheel down the square tube it dumps into a black lense. That black lense is infront of an angled bracket piece. I believe that is what is creating the shadow. I had an american allen wrench set so I didn't have the right 2.5mm size (right inbetween). So once I pick one up, I have to loosen the metal bracket holding the tube and readjust. If anybody is interested I'll post pics.

I hope this fixes it.

-sonny

sbaillar:
I would appreaciate some pictures as I think I noticed the same.

BTW: Has anyone pickup the new "Digital Video Essentials" yet? I am not sure if it is out yet.

My TV3 is now three weeks old and I have noticed my first dust blob on a dark screen. I am going to attempt to remove the cover while the projector is still mounted to the ceiling. Has everyone that has cleaned their projector concentrated on the back of the lens or has dust accumulated in other areas of the light path? Any further word on whether Dwin is going to address this problem?

Steve

Steve - My TV3 shipped with a big dust blob. I called Rodger and he explained the process which was pretty simple. 6 screws on the bottom (as I recall) and some compressed air to blow on the mirror and lense. That is what I did and it worked fine and I haven't had any dust issues since.

sbailler,

I had a similar problem, but instead of a dark shadow, it was a light glare. It was at the bottom right hand side of my screen, about two thirds the way across my screen, and approximately one inch high.

It was a lens alignment problem. Rodger walked me through the re-alignment process (exactly what he plans to do with you). It was a piece of cake, only took five minutes with the 2.5mm allen wrench and all was well.

Probably the result of a rough shipment.

Ok, here is the procedure to fix the problem that I had (and apparently others) if you have a shadow or glare in your image. This has worked for me on my ceiling mounted TV3. <DISCLAIMER!>If you break it while attempting this DO NOT blame me.</DISCLAIMER!>

1) Take down your TV3 and remove the top shell by taking out the 6 black screws (3 front and 3 rear).

2) Carefully put back your TV3 onto your ceiling mount. Many things are exposed here so becareful to not to touch ANYTHING! and hook everything back up.

3) Put up a white image (No input or Service Menu) so you can see the shadow in question on your screen.

4) Loosen the bracket that is holding the lense in question (see attachment) with your 2.5mm allen wrench. Only loosen enough to move the lense, a couple of twists will do.

5) Now gently rotate the lense until the shadow goes away. This lense actually shines the light over the image space. You will see the outer edge of the image with the reflected light in this lense changing. Rotate it gently until the shadow goes away. You will have to make micro-adjustments since this is very sensitive to position. If it doesn't go away, try moving it front to back. This is the most time consuming along with step 6.

6) Now that you think you are close you have to tighten down the screws in the bracket. This is where it gets tricky. You are going to have to anticipate the movement caused by the bracket tightening. You almost have to push the lense tight as if the bracket was holding it there. This will take some time and trail and error.

7) Once you are happy with the results take the PJ down and put the cover back on and re-align.

8) Watch movie.

9) Rinse. Repeat 8.

Easy. Just takes some patients.

-sonny

Finally no shadows.....I love it!

-sonny

Thanks for posting that fix Sonny.

I hope I won't have to come back to this post to see how to do it though!

sonny-

Everyone appreciates your excellent documentation of the procedure here.

It is this kind of user support I had intended with this thread. Luckily, I don't have the problem but I am printing out your instructions for my manual for future reference. Love the before and after pictures!

Thanks....I could've shorten the procedure but in my line of business you can never assume somebody's level of intelligence nor their attention to detail (I work on Wall Street). Also, please forgive my pictures...they were taken with a video camcorder's still camera (Sony TRV-30, 1Mp).

-sonny

Just got email from my dealer--his HDCP/upgrade boards arrived yesterday. Expect to have mine installed some time next week.

Has anyone using the TV3 with the Samsung hd-931 had any problems with sync between the audio and video in the DTS mode? If so, is there a fix?

xcode- me too. I guess I'll need to get sertious about joining the all DVI digital club soon. Suppose we should start a thread in the DVD section that is for DVI DVD to TV3 owners. Maybe some here who have pioneered this would go start that. I'd love to have all the stuff about doing this in one place. I recall there were some pros and cons of the two DVI players but not sure which one is the best bet-
Seems the Bravo is hard to get and locks up often while the Samsung is more expensive and has some stretch mode that is default and I hate that look. Neither is ideal. Hopefully, some pioneers/early adopters will start such a thread on which is the best choice for the TV3 owners.

I think you summed up the two DVI players pretty well Don.

Thomas Marshall has both, and has done a lot of comparison between the two. In the end, he said he slightly prefers the PQ of the Bravo, it's a bit "cleaner".

However, as you mention, he has had problems with it locking up. The remote isn't very good. The Samsung appears to be a bit more reliable.

The Samsung apparently does not play 4:3 material correctly through DVI. It stretches it (as you mention). This is completely unacceptable to me. I have plenty of classic movies in my DVD collection that are 4:3, and I refuse to watch them "distorted" by the DVD player. This fact alone was enough to sway me toward the Bravo.

As far as availability, it is my understanding that V Inc. has finally caught up to the demand, and D1's are shipping immediately upon order.

My second picture, the fixed one, is of the Bravo D1 startup screen. I love the D1...I had it lock up on me once. I think I am one of the fortunate. The remote sucks but I have a MX700 so its a non-issue. For the quality of the PQ, I think you'll be hard to find anything better for the price that is out now. Monster's Inc. and SW:AOTC looks outstanding at 720p. Santellavision? put out a good review and comparison of the D1 and Sammy with his VP12s2 and he preferred the look of the D1.

DVI is amazing and currently the best way to view DVD's...despite the low rating it got from Secrets.

-sonny

The Secrets review of the Bravo D1 can be found here. (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=DVD+Player&manufacturer=43&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0)

I've had my Bravo since early May (second batch?). I haven't had any lockups, yet. Sure the remote stinks but if that keeps the price at $200 I consider it a plus. Who uses the oem remote anyways? From all my reading in the various forums the Bravo sounds like a much better value. The 4:3 stretch, chroma bug and a picture generally not reviewed as well as the Bravo's steered me away from the Samsung.

An aside.. I have Bob Jones for ImagePerfection coming over to calibrate on the 28th. I'm very curious to see the settings that he comes up with. Of course I'll share them with you all.

I don't think the Samsung has the chroma bug.

Am I wrong?

I may be wrong on the chroma bug. Bad memory.

I know that the Marantz DVI player has the chroma bug (and it costs about 8 times as much as the Bravo!). Perhaps that is the unit you were thinking of?

Has anyone using the TV3 with the Samsung hd-931 had any problems with sync between the audio and video in the DTS mode?

I'm using the Bravo D1 and noticed a big problem with lipsync on a DVD I played last night. It was not DTS but it was the first time I have ever noticed this and I haved played many DVDs. The only difference is that I just upgraded to HDCP compliance. I tried one other DVD and did not see the problem. I'm wondering if the new board and chip may be causing an audio delay problem. Is this possible or likely? I will check more this weekend.

Apparently there was a lipsync issue with DD 2.0 sources. I thought that was fixed in the second batches firmware but I could be mistaken. I really don't have any DD2.0 sources so I haven't seen it yet. I haven't heard of any DTS issues and lipsync, but then again I could be wrong.

-sonny

If the Bravohas the lock up fixed, then I can see getting into that. I don't like stretched video at all. The remote is a non issue for me since I don't use them anyway, only to program my main remote.

I also thought the Bravo was not HDCP complaint meaning that it worked outside the license requirements of DVD and was considered a good find to have one just for that reason. Considering I watch so few DVD's I really don't want to spend much on one anyway.

Considering I watch so few DVD's .....

Blasphemy!!!

What do you watch? If it's not DVD's, I hope you are going to say High Definition something...

I ordered a Bravo D1 today just because of the sterling reviews it has been receiving on this site. I'm going to hook it up and do a side by side by side comparison between it, my HD931 and my Sony 999ES and will report back. FYI, Bravos are in stock and ship immediately. Mine shipped FedEx two-day for $25 shipping. More to come . . . .

Rob-

Yes, I have all the current HDTV channels with DirecTV, local broadcast and DishNetwork. No time for DVD's and besides HDTV looks much cleaner than many of the DVD's Maybe the DVI will improve that.
Besides DVD's cost so much more than programming of HDTV channels. Plus, I have recording capability with all my channels and have a huge library of tapes for those rare days "nothing's on" I usually rent the DVDs I watch and buy the title if I find I want to watch again. So far my collection's at about 40 DVD's and most are in my van for road movies!

I spoke too soon - had my first lockup with the Bravo last night. Of course it happened at the end of the movie in the most suspenseful part. Anyways I posted over in the dvd forum and I'm trying to find out how widespread this is and if anyone has gotten help from V Inc. on this.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=279717

I finally saw this pj last night at a friend's house thanks to Brent Huskins. My friend has a Runco 1000ci projecting onto a Greyhawk. Overall I loved the pq of the Dwin (no calibration - staight out of the box). Specifically I did not feel it was any dimmer than the Runco, nor did I feel that contrast was worse. I did notice that whites did not really stand out - I assume that this is due to the Greyhawk material?

Also, the greens in LOTR (scene at the beginning when Gandalf comes to the Shire) appear to be lime green; it was unnatural. I assume that this will be corrected with an ISF calibration?

Thanks,
AGN

That's impressive Don...DirecTv and DishNetwork!?

I'm sure you are recording all the HD movies that you can, while you can, right?!

I hope the new DishNetwork PVR with Firewire output comes soon!

Rob- I stopped recording for the library when I hit 500 DVHS tapes. No more room! I now record for archive only those special movies. I do run a long tape often to time shift and because of that, I am also eager to get the 921. The 921 has DVI out too and that was the primary reason to have a Dwin with 2 DVI connections, one for the 921 and one for the DVD player. But, I'm in no hurry for a DVD player especially with all the quirks being reported with the current batch. Too bad they just don't work as nicely as my current Panasonic cheapie. RP-56. I guess it will just have to do for now.

500 D-VHS movies?! Wow!

Funny, I just got done watching Star Wars: Episode II Attack of the Clones on HBO-HD, and was thinking "man, I wish I could record this with my JVC 30k right now so I could watch it in High Def on my Dwin when it's set up"!

Firewire... what does that really mean for a satellite receiver? Does this imply that those of us HTPC geeks will be able to just plug and play into our HTPCs and use the satellite tuner just like a tuner card, or is there more to it?

Just did the Landis tweak(push the gasket up more towards the screen to tame the light spill, and I also did the sbailler tweak (thanks to his awesome instructions(including a GREAT pic to work off of)). I was worried at first, but after working around in there, I am alot more confident, and I will be up for going in again.

I still haven't heard back from Roger, but I am going to ask him for an extra lens cap(if he want me to rig up a shade for half of the lens, then give me another lens cap to use!).

Anyone willing to try to come up with an idea for a filter on the unit? I would try, but I would probably break something:)

Also, Is there a way we can link all of the wonderful tweaks posted in this 24+ page thread onto the first page(kinda like a table of tweaks in the first post)?

Thanks again guys, this thread is great!

Originally posted by Don Landis
Rob- I stopped recording for the library when I hit 500 DVHS tapes. No more room! I now record for archive only those special movies. I do run a long tape often to time shift and because of that, I am also eager to get the 921. The 921 has DVI out too and that was the primary reason to have a Dwin with 2 DVI connections, one for the 921 and one for the DVD player. But, I'm in no hurry for a DVD player especially with all the quirks being reported with the current batch. Too bad they just don't work as nicely as my current Panasonic cheapie. RP-56. I guess it will just have to do for now.

Don,
My HTPC has a radeon card with DVI out, and dvds @ the native 720p resolution look incredible with DVI. Have you ever thought of one of these(perfect for a tweaker like you).

Gave it a thought once but decided to stay away from turing my home theater into one more WORK station.

I've been enjoying my TV3 for a week or so now. On Friday, the cable guy showed up with my new HD cable box for the theater. All I can say is "Wow!" I ended up watching the HD loop on PBS for about an hour with no sound. My question, however, is whether anyone has tried DVI from cable. I live in MA, and I have Comcast cable. The box has a DVI connector, but I don't have a DVI cable to try yet. Before I go out and get one, has anyone in MA with Comcast tried it? I tried to talked to Comcast to see if the DVI connector was even active, but their reps were clueless. I'm curious if I can expect similar results by switching the cable to DVI as others in this forum saw going to the Bravo or the Samsung over DVI.

Godavego,
Any other connections on that box like firewire for DVHS recording?
I live in Boston. What HD channels are you getting?
I will be a TV3 owner in september.
FREAK!

metallicafreak,
There is a firwire connection, but that one I know is disabled. Other than that, there are component, S-video, composite, coax digital, stereo, DVI, and I think there is a toslink as well.

I will look again tonight to verify.

So any ideas on the next upgrades to the TV3? Is Dwin going to beef up the filter and/or fix the light spill problem or will these remain home remedies? In the "Rumor has it" thread there is talk about an HD2.5 (for lack of better nominclature) chip on the horizon that will be a 10 bit chip and an easy replacement for the HD2 prior to the introduction of the all new HD3. But there's also some discussion that a single link DVI cable will only handle up to 8 bit, whereas a multilink DVI cable will take full advantage of the10 bit chip. What type of DVI cable does the TV3 use?

Screen question for TV3 owners. Building a new home, theater room will be dedicated 20x28x10, with total light control if needed. I have been considering a 130" wide screen for this room and would like your opinions on the light output of the Dwin on a screen this size and which screen material at this size. Thanks in advance for any help on this topic, I too look forward to being a TV3 owner soon also!

I think that this is possible in a light controlled room, but I may be wrong. At 92 wide(sitting 12 feet away), it is very punchy.

I have seen the Dwin on a 133 inch diagonal Firehawk (at Thomas Marshall's) and it looked bright enough to my eyes!

gmanhdtv
i have a 159 inch diagonal hipower i just installed and it is definately the ticket for large screens. previous was a dalite hccv and it was adequate but the hp is perfect

So I get my new Bravo in yesterday after waiting a month. I pick up a new dual link DVI cable on the way home. I hook everything up and decide to wait to pull out the old DVD player. I turn the DVD player on and push the open button. The screen shows OPEN but nothing happens. I look underneath the player to see if there is a transportation screw but there is not. I open up the manual and it mentions nothing about doing anything before starting the unit. I call up the number on the shipping papers and I get some graphics company. So I dig around and find the number for one of the parts guys at Vinc, and I get for the last 2 days is his voicemail.

I had hoped to not get a Bravo with problems mentioned before. I guess my wish came true, I have a whole new problem. So, looks like I will be waiting a little longer for that DVI movie. Now I just need to find a phone number at Vinc that works and that someone will answer.

Oh yeah, Brent is coming today to upgrade the scaler on the DWIN. Well, I had told him no hurry. Guess I was right again.

Toxarch-

Please make sure to post your problem in the DVD hardware section. There is a post there discussing all the problems with the Bravo, including it locking up in the middle of playback of DVD's.

More problems appear to be reported on the Bravo every day lately. Not good. :(

Well, I got a call from one of their guys. He said I needed a RMA# and that I had to e-mail them to get it. So I am waiting for that now. I'll repost the problem in the other forum.

If the replacement locks up, or anything else, then I will just return it.

Ok, I went o Home Depot Looking for Gaffers Tape and couldn't get anyone to tell me where it is or know what it is. Brand and descrition please.

You can either buy gaffer's tape online or at a specialty store. I get it at an arts and crafts store. Also, try

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cinemasupplies/gafferstape.html

Chad

Hi vdmai -- you can definitely get gaffers tape at www.markertek.com

My installers came by and installed the TV3 upgrade. It consisted of one circuit board and a chip update. Went together without a hitch and the install was pretty simple, although it took them about 30 minutes as it was their first time.

But I was shocked... shocked to see the inside of the scaler unit.

It was 80% air.

That's right--that big metal box has two small boards and a power supply. The vast majority of the box is empty. It's pretty clear that the scaler logic is all on one single chip (this sits in the center of what looks like the main board). This chip was one of the upgraded components. It was popped out with... a screwdriver.

The DVI I/O board is the other component that is replaced. I didn't spend a lot of time looking at it, to tell you the truth--it's connected to the back of the box vertically flush behid the DVI connectors. It's covered with a metal shield secured by 4 nuts and connected to the main board by a small ribbon connector.

I kept thinking to myself--man, they could have fit this whole system in a box that is 1/4 the size. I suppose this doesn't matter to most, but I'm plum out of space in my rack and the extra space would have been nice.

Any way, I look forward to eyeballing the new color settings to see if things look more accurate. I don't have any special tools (anybody in the Seattle area who wants to come by and mess with my PJ, be my guest!), so all I can give you are qualitative opinions (likely after this weekend when I can watch some movies, etc.).

I had opened up the scaler box before. Took some pictures and posted them in another thread. I'm pretty sure the scaler chip is on the DVI board, not the chip they popped out.

Update about my Bravo: I tried to contact some lady at Bravo about the fact that I expected them to pay for the return shipping of my bad D1. I shouldn't have to pay to ship it since the unit never worked. Tried to call the lady who is head of sales for 2 days with no reply, so I sent them another e-mail. I asked them to pass it on to her and that I wanted the replacement unit bench tested. And that if the unit locks up, that I will expect a full refund. They said they were mailing me a PRP.

Now, what the heck is a PRP? I'm hoping it's the shipping label that they paid for.

Still need my DWIN scaler updated.

I can post the Scaler pictures again if I ever get the laptop working again. The coax plug in the computer cracked. Hewlett Packard wants $400 to replace the motherboard. I can replace the plug on the motherboard myself for $3 if they would tell me the plug size (2.1mm or 2.5mm). But noone there seems to know the size and I can't get the engineers there to call me. So I am fighting with V inc and HP right now just trying to get simple answers.

Thanks for the info on Gaffers Tape.

BTW, is it necessary to have the PJ grounded or is three prong plug needed? Are all of you using the grounded 3-prong?

PRP = Prepaid Return Postage

Is it just me, or does the 720p picture from the Bravo D-1/TV3 combination look really soft? I may have gotten used to looking at the output from the HD931 which appears extremely sharp (maybe to a fault). I'm waiting on a second DVI cable to do a head to head comparison. I'll post it in the DVD Hardware section, but I was wondering if anyone had the same observation about the picture.

Chad

Did you guys see the thread "Mother of all shoot outs", to bad they left out two of the best PJ's on the market (TV3 and Z10k). Not exactly the mother of all shoot outs to me.

By the by, I'm still completely in love with my TV3, every person who has seen it is simply BLOWN AWAY:)

Chad,

I would agree with you, the Bravo D1 does have a softer picture than the Samsung 931.

Now that I've been using the 931 again due to the D1 lockups, I actually like the picture better than the D1.


Both units are excellent, the D1 is smoother/softer to my eye, and the 931 is sharper and more crisp. It really comes down to your personal preference.

Well Guys after my initial Nightmare with my Demo DWIN..

The replacement is in, and this time with the HD931... and it looks great..

There was definately something wrong with my DMD, or optics... for sure..

They also did something for the light spill, because it is nothing like the old one...?

The HD931 looks great. Did a demo with monsters inc and it really impressed me, I even wonder if these new batches have new improved DMD's in them... I heard that even the new crop of Z10K's have a better DMD in them... It definately even looks better than the others I have installed out of the box.. with component or DVI?

They did however send it without the remote... so I couldn't ISF it yet..

But I can deal with that for awhile..


-ADS-

I figured there had to be something wrong with your unit d4lions...too many of your observations didn't jive with what others were seeing with the Dwin. Glad you finally got the issue resolved.

Interesting post, d4lions....

I have also been underwhelmed with my TV3 -- picture just does not measure up to the raving reviews that everyone else is going on about -- in fact, watching Minority Report last night was really annoying with an intolerable amount of white blooming.

I am toying with the idea of sending it back to Dwin for review, and then out for ISF calibration to get it dialed in....

I have Avia-ed it, and was still not impressed, and after talking through the settings with Roger at Dwin he had me reset the standard settings to factory for both component and DVI (Bravo) inputs.

Maybe I got a bad one? I'm trying not to be overly picky here, but I have to admit that my previous LCD pj (Sony HS10) had a far better picture.... For the $, I do expect a much better image.

Schlitze,
I would reccomend checking another movie other than Minority Report which was intentionally filmed so white/bloomed and grained to hell.
FREAK!

Minority Report was just an example. I've watched a bunch of movies(DVI or component), HD, and SDTV. None of it looks great.

Just got off the phone with Dwin -- Jeff feels that the HDCP/IC upgrade chip will solve the problem, which he has seen before, although in a handful of units. Once the new chip gets here in the next few days I will try that, and see what the outcome is. If no improvement, it will have to go to Dwin for an overhaul.