Thanks for the replies.

I planned for the pj mount (placed plenty of wood blocks prior to sheetrocking the ceiling), but I am more concerned with mounting the screen....what if it doesn't match up to a stud where I need it to be?

If anyone is familiar with the SilverStar, does it provide a way to adjust the mounting brackets so it can be mounted precisely in the studs?

Also, I know the Dwin has the vertical adjustment for the picture (up and down), does it also have a way to move the picture horizontally (left and right) to match the screen, or does this need to be done completely manually with the mount?

Originally posted by bhuskins
Hey Toxarch, I'll deliver it today - sorry for the wait

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Whoa, I haven't even called Brent yet and he's ready to deliver today. Actually, is there any way we can wait on the replcement and get a HD2+ as a free replacement? Then I could get the new bulb and the upgrade for free and hopefully lose the ghosting and minor dust spots. That would be really cool.

kraigk, I would have checked the crosshatch back on page 28, but I hadn't gotten into the projector test patterns yet. Mine are blue on the upper right of the diamond on the left side if the screen and on the upper left of the diamond on the right side. I think you described yours as different.

Rob, the DWIN has no horizontal adjustment. It needs to be centered with the screen (or vise verse).

To be completely accurate... in the image setup menu for non-DVI inputs there is a horizontal position adjustment. However, this is designed as a source specific adjustment to center the image on the DLP chip, not to compensate for poor projector placement. If you are offcenter you either have to angle the projector (causing focus and horizontal keystone issues) or overscan the mis-centered image to fill both sides of the screen.

So, after all my nitpicking we are back to the fact that you need to have your projector centered.

Since the screen is what you are looking at, I would mount it where you will be most comfortable watching it. Then go to the trouble of accurately measuring the center and where that centerline is for your projector mount. As an engineer, I didn't find this very difficult. The mounting of the PJ is quite simple compared to mounting a screen, especially one with a complete stage system of curtains, top and bottom masks and electric roll down. I used the method describbed by Scott but with string and marked the apex of the triangle made with string on the ceiling. Then let out more string equal on each side of the triangle and marked again. The line between these two points makes a centerline on which to find the mounting point for the center of the drop pipe. I'd say my PJ was within a quarter inch of center about 16 ft. back from the screen (can't recall the exact distance) but I just chose that based on a ceiling rafter to mount the pipe bracket. I also stretched a line string from the top of the 16x9 screen size to the back wall using a line level and used that to calculate the actual drop dimensions to size the pipe. I also had this ceiling fan I needed to clear and another string set at an angle marked by the light globe under the fan helped determine my actual drop distance I needed to clear that light. It clears with 1" to spare and still be 1 inch into the lens offset. String was the solution to working around all sorts of angles and obstacles including an angled ceiling in doing all the design which I reduced to a drawing. With that and the Peerless website, I had enough dimensions to order the mount before the PJ arrived. The mount was up and ready for the PJ. So, final installation only took a few minutes when the TV3 arrived.

With the DWIN TV3, definitely mount the PJ first - it is MUCH easier! Some special circumstances might merit the mounting of the screen first but those are usually rare. Other brands of PJ's may get the screen first as well, but typically not the TV3. Get the picture roughly where you want it, then set the screen - you'll thank me later. I've installed many of these and would almost never mount the screen first. I tried a couple of times - what a pain! I do see where the one time DIY'er would want to spend time with string and what not, but custom installers don't have the time to plan out the projector location that much. A flexible mount does help for sure. Peerless makes it very easy to adjust the height, etc. when using their encore system, whereas the DWIN factory mount is much less forgiving.

Also - you definitely want to make sure you are mounting in the location that is center to the screen - that's a given. If your house is square, use the side walls to measure the distance. Up and down is easy with the DWIN optical adjustment as long as you're not at the limits.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Actually Tox,

DWIN sent me an HD2+ TV3 just for you (midnight blue of course - and with the NEW, improved powder coat outside blue cover.) They wanted me to be prepared for when you finally discovered the ghosts. I think it has an extra bulb too. How's tomorrow?

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Thanks for all the comments regarding mounting of my screen and projector.

I will be using the Dwin mount, and Brent's comments definitely make sense, so I will mount the pj first...hopefully aligning the image within a chalk outline I will make on the wall where I want the screen to be.

I need help regarding video source memory. It says in the spec that there are 10 presets and 10 custom for video source memory (a total of 20, 2 per input). I looked a the manual it says I can create a new video source thru "image-setup" menu. Somehow I couldn't find this one in the menu.

thanks,
twelly

Originally posted by bhuskins
Actually Tox,

DWIN sent me an HD2+ TV3 just for you (midnight blue of course - and with the NEW, improved powder coat outside blue cover.) They wanted me to be prepared for when you finally discovered the ghosts. I think it has an extra bulb too. How's tomorrow?

Brent Huskins
Media Design


Hey Brent,

You can go ahead and send that my way. I can't wait to see you here in Atlanta and the installation of my new TV3 :). I am soon to be a proud poster to this thread and look forwarding to adding 2 cents if appropriate.

Matthew

Don - I guess it will be a "phenomenon" until you see it yourself, huh? :)

My new screen arrived yesterday. Stewart Horizon Electimask. I have to tell you, masking rocks!

In addition to the awesome effect it has on 1:85 and 2:35 movies, the Stewart BRIC controller is incredible. It integrates IR and a wall switch with 6 user presets. This solved two problems for me. One was that my DVI DVD and DVI DSS images were offset vertically about 1". Without electronic image shift on DVI inputs, this left me with manually operating the lens shift on the projector every time I switched inputs. The other problem was the "dirty" signal on the first 4-5 scan lines on some channels (cbs-hd, nbc-sd for example). I set up my Pronto with the Stewart IR codes, and now when I switch from DVD to DSS, the screen automatically comes up 1" to compensate for the image shift and the mask drops down to cover up the signals on the top of the image.

If any of you are on the fence regarding masking, hop off and get it -- it's makes movies so much more enjoyable.

Don - what kind of roll down screen do you have that has bottom masking? How do they accomplish that? My screen masks the bottom by retracting to the bottom of the image and the mask drops down in front of the screen to meet the top of the image. The bottom is masked by the dark blue curtains covering the window behind the screen.

"Don - I guess it will be a "phenomenon" until you see it yourself, huh?
"

Not necessarily- Al long as ti fits the definition of the word it will remain such.

As far as I'm concerned it is an unusual occurrence that can be perceived by the senses-- a phenomenon. Once many people perceived of it and it becomes a common property of the PJ it will cease being a phenomenon and will be either an artifact or a property of the technology.



My screen is a standard Dalite electric roll down. It is noisier than the stewart because I recall the stewart has an external motor and the Dalite is internal mounted the metal frame box which acts like a noise amplifier.
The masking system is my own manual system. It uses a 96" wide HunterDouglas blind in flat black for the top mask, draperies for the side verticals, and the bottom is set by the drop on the screen with a removable skirt made of cotton flat black cloth behind the screen.
I once thought of mounting a second Hunter Douglas honeycomb blind on the bottom rail of the screen and then pull it to the floor. These blinds work like an accordion and this would pull the bottom mask size as the drop on the screen varies. Never did do that. BTW- I jealous, I would like to upgrade some day to a screen with masks like you have but that will have to be next year or after. Can't afford it right now. I got a quote on the da-lite version from a local dealer and it was over $7000. Stewart is even more expensive and I would need a custom size as he does not make my size requirements as a standard while Dalite does. My Dalite cost me only $850 in 1999. Resizing my masks only take about 15 seconds so the fact that it is manual hasn't been much of a bother and I do size it for every movie. A properly sized screen for the program is very important for the best viewing experience!

well, it was present on all four of the projectors I've seen and Toxarch makes five, so if it's ok with you, I'm going to go ahead and call it an artifact. ;)

The Stewart has an internally mounted motor and it's whisper quiet and very smooth. I looked at the Dalite but ultimately decided on the Stewart because it's within 10% of the price of the Dalite and Stewart's BRIC controller can't be touched. It uses sensors on the mask and screen for programming the stops, so the presets always stop within 1/16" of where you programmed it.

Originally posted by bhuskins
DWIN sent me an HD2+ TV3 just for you (midnight blue of course - and with the NEW, improved powder coat outside blue cover.)

You're joking, right?

Golly I wish he wasn't joking. It sure would be nice to have that projector with an extra bulb to boot. Brent probably just wants his first projector back.

"well, it was present on all four of the projectors I've seen and Toxarch makes five, so if it's ok with you, I'm going to go ahead and call it an artifact. "

Only 5? Heck I can produce more eye witnesses that Elvis is still alive because they've seen him. 5 eyewitnesses is not proof that the Dwin is at fault. It is only testimony that 5 people are seeing Ghosts! ROFLMAO! You need evidence, scientific evidence my friend, before you begin to claim it is an artifact of the Dwin TV3.


"The Stewart has an internally mounted motor and it's whisper quiet and very smooth. I looked at the Dalite but ultimately decided on the Stewart because it's within 10% of the price of the Dalite and Stewart's BRIC controller can't be touched. It uses sensors on the mask and screen for programming the stops, so the presets always stop within 1/16" of where you programmed it."

Hmmmm... I'll have to revisit the Stewart site and try to understand what it was I was looking at with that external motor. You are getting the tensioned screen, right? Better, or you'll be sorry! Price (MSRP), I also need to revisit. A new top of the line screen and masks is on my wishlist as soon as I get over the DVR's for HDTV. I'm glad you are correcting some mis conceptions I had about Stewart. At any rate, I had planned to chat with him about it on the HT Cruise this November. :)

For those curious as to whether my comments to Tox were legit - please look up the word sarcasm (no offense)...Lately this thread has become a little ridiculous - again no offense to anyone in particular - I'm all about striving for excellence, but we have gone too far here. The things people are "seeing" and "trying" to photograph can be seen on any DLP unit that you care to analyze in such a way. We're creating a scare for nothing - except for likely one user that had a substantial issue that sounds like it has been resolved.

Did any of you guys call DWIN to see if the upgrade was out yet? - besides I already had one - right? Come one be honest. It would be pretty funny if somebody did! (except for DWIN! - then I would get the next call - ouch!)

How about we all just watch a movie for once - enjoy!

Brent Huskins
Media Design
:D :D :D :D :D

One final question before mounting my pj-

I assume it is sufficient to simply mount the pj and turn it on to see where the white light (no image) falls on the wall, without needing to connect it to the controller via the DVI cable?

Will this give me a fairly accurate assessment of where my DVD image (via DVI connection) will fall? Or should I actually connect my DVD player to the Dwin to get a more accurate result?

Thanks!

Don - Well, now you MUST stop by when you're in NY. If you don't see the ghosts, I'll eat a CD!

Brent - Resolved? I dunno, I was watching the CORE last night and it really bugged me a couple of times. It's pretty bad, but after going through three projectors, I think I'm just going to have to swallow hard on this one. You can bet that I'll be looking for this on my next purchase, and I think it's important enough for new buyers to be aware of. You really cant see it in any of your setups huh? why me?

Anyway, you've all inspired me to take out the tripod and open up the stop and see if I can catch Elvis, uh, ghosts that is, on digi-film.

Cheers!

Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
One final question before mounting my pj-

I assume it is sufficient to simply mount the pj and turn it on to see where the white light (no image) falls on the wall, without needing to connect it to the controller via the DVI cable?

Will this give me a fairly accurate assessment of where my DVD image (via DVI connection) will fall? Or should I actually connect my DVD player to the Dwin to get a more accurate result?

Thanks!

You wont be able to turn on the projector without the controller attached.

UPDATE: I received some feedback from Dwin on the FAQ. I will post the details and/or additions to the FAQ when I get confirmation from them for permission.

You wont be able to turn on the projector without the controller attached.

Well, I know that is not accurate, since I have already done it. I was checking the pj out when I received it, and you can definitely turn it on and project a white image....and even focus on the screendoor.

My question is whether this would be an accurate example of where the actual image would be using a DVD.

Really? Well then I stand corrected. I had trouble turning on the projector when I had inadvertantly connected the DVI to an input on the controller, so I assumed it wouldn't work unplugged.

I think the white field will get you pretty close. You might have to fine tune it a bit once you've connected your DVD player though. Are you using the DWIN mount?

Yep, using the Dwin mount.

I found my camera, would you believe it was in the beer cooler's pouch?

Anyway, I snapped a couple of pictures of the ghost and shrunk them down to post in here. I'll have to retake the pictures with a longer exposure but here's one of them. On the other computer, I could still make out the ghost, but on this monitor, it's not as easy to see. So I'll post it anyway and you can see if you can see them.

It definitely shows up on my monitor and I definitely do not have this happening on my screen!

In case any of you don't see it in Toxarch's image, I boosted the brightness and contrast about 30% in Photoshop.


I don't know what would cause this but I'll post one of my images with the same boost. I'm using a Matte white screen gain is 1.0

Remember this image? It is the word at the bottom of the screen with extra chroma boost and brightness boost ( in photoshop). The original unretouched photo is at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=263971&perpage=20&pagenumber=49 Post #968

No Ghosts but I do have that refraction of the blue glow which is larger at the bottom of the screen than the top.

Well, there it is! Thanks Toxarch! That's exactly what I'm seeing.

Don - you're in communication with the folks at Dwin. Any chance you can get them to comment on this?

M- I wouldn't say I am in communication as in a "dialog" exactly. If you wish a response, better contact them yourself. They commented on the FAQ but the Q&A is a very slow e-mail process. I may try the phone again if this drags out but we tried that and it was several days of Voice mail death, in part, my problem too. I have asked them for permission to put their comments in the FAQ and now I wait. Please understand that the impression I get is Dwin prefers to work through dealers for stuff like this "Ghost" and "dust on the lens" support, etc.
Besides, I don't have this Ghost problem here. I really don't. I am convinced it is either your TV3 that is not right or your screen design generates the "Ghosts"

I am recalling a particular artifact I observed on a PJ back at CES. When I asked the PJ rep about it he blamed the artifact on the screen which upon close inspection was a perf screen that was indeed generating the moire pattern of colors like you see when talent wears a pinstripped shirt on CRT TV. Later I believe Don Stewart explained that this is definitly an artifact of pixel count beating against the perf count and the size choice on perf screens / PJ imager is critical to avoid this. Hey, he's the expert!
With Dwin, there appears to be some confusion on the screen recommendation here on this thread too although what they told me in the e-mail is not at all confusing. What with all the experimental design choices offering gain and black enhancement by reducing ambient light reflections, any wonder there are artifacts being discovered. I'm beginning to believe that these enhanced screen systems are great but they don't come without baggage that is not yet clearly defined.

If I ever get permission to quote them I will but for the moment I wait.

Don,

Toxarch has the recommended Studiotek 130 Screen. I also think this "ghost" may be over exaggerated by an over exposed picture.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Brent,

Let me assure you, it is not exaggerated. That's exactly how it looks from 12' away.

I posted another thread on this subject to try and get some feedback from non TV-3 owners. One suggested that I try running the zoom in and out to see if that changes things. I haven't tried that yet, but it sounds feasible.

For Toxarch it is exaggerated...I've personally viewed his system more than once and unless this has showed up in the last month where it wasn't there before it's definitely exaggerated.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Brent- Just trying to understand-

Are you saying the photograph that Toxarch posted is not representative of what he is seeing? Or, are you saying that by my increasing the brightness of the photo to show where it is to aid a computer monitor display not showing it is not representative?
I agree that the brightness boost is not representative of what he is seeing as the original photo he posted did not show anything on my computer monitor yet his camera did clearly capture something we are calling "ghost" that was not in my photo of the word Press in an equally brightness boosted image. The whole purpose of the brightness boost is to, shall we say, offer a laboratory indicator that enhances the difference much like using indicator dyes in a titration analysis in chemistry. It was not to make the image more representative. I couldn't do that because I don't have any idea what this ghost looks like other than what this photo displayed.

I'm saying that the image is not representative of what "I've" seen on his system. I have great 20/20 vision and am very video critical. I would have seen what he showed in the picture from 20 foot away, much less 6 inches away. If this is what is going on at Toxarch's setup then it's new. That's why I asked if this has cropped up in the last month.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Actually, I think that's always been there. I just don't pay attention to credits. There is actually more ghosting than is seen in my picture, but not as bad as Don's alteration. This picture is from about 3 feet away. That was just so I wouldn't need to use any optical zoom.

We don't notice the ghosting during movies I suppose because there are other colors than just the white on black. I haven't really seen the ghost other than on a black background.

And I haven't touched the projector since before Brent came to upgrade the scaler except for maybe adding the lens cap alteration. But I pulled the cap off to see if that was the problem and it is not.

I finally got my Dwin TV3 mounted as of last night! :)

The install went very, very smoothly. The most difficult part was measuring everything out to determine exactly where to place the mount. After triple checking my measurements, everything came out perfectly. The white image lines up perfectly in the blue chalk line that I placed on the screen wall.

The screen will be mounted on Sunday.

Finally.

:)

By the way, I am very happy with the Dwin mount. It gives a nice flush mount against the ceiling and it looks very clean. The adjustments that it allows is also very nice.

I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but here goes. I have a Bravo D1 DVD player, DWIN TV3, and a 100" Stewart Firehawk screen. After several movies and a few HD broadcasts (Comcast cable), too much edge enhancement is starting to bother me. My question is whether this is purely over-cooked content, or is it a result of something in my system? I see it mostly on dark scenes. For example, the opening credits on Gangs of New York are really bad. What has me leaning towards content is that it doesn't seem to be as bad on some movies, but I could be getting lucky.

Except for the DWIN and the screen, my system is the same as I've had for a while, and I never really noticed anything before. Then again, I only had a 32" TV vs. 100" screen.

Am I being too picky?

Read back a few pages. You might be experiencing the ghosting that a few of us have seen. Also check out the DLP Ghost thread elsewhere in this section. If you're seeing it on HD content, it's almost certainly not EE.

Does it look like a double image above bright white text on a black background? There's a couple of photos a few posts back.

I don't think what I'm seeing is the ghost issue. This is much more pronounced, and it is definitely along edges of light/dark. To be clear, when I said the issue was during the opening credits of "The Gangs of NY," it wasn't on the wording. What I was seeing is lines around shapes in the background. Another example was in "Shanghi Knights." In one scene, there is a face illuminated by candlelight. At the shadow lines on the actor's face is where I see the EE. The affect is similar to what I've seen on some TVs when you turn the sharpness controll all the way up. Note, my TV3's sharpness setting is 0.

Most, if not all, movies have a certain amount of EE done in post-production. I'm hoping what I'm seeing is movies that happened to do a little too much. For example, my wife and watched LOTR "The Two Towers" over the weekend. There are lots of dark scenes there, but I didn't notice any EE.

godavego,

I didn't notice too much EE in most of my DVD's. I have a 100-inch firehawk screen and Bravo D1 too. The tv3 is around 15-feet from the screen. If you see at least 1 or 2 movies without EE then there's nothing wrong with your system. Try playing a couple of animated movies like Monster Inc, Shrek and Dinosaur. I didn't see any EE with these movies. I calibrated mine using Digital Video Essentials, but I bumped the contrast a little bit. What is your settings? These are my settings:

contrast - 85
brightness - 31
color - 37
tint - 57
sharpness - 0

-twelly

A couple of days ago, I sent Dwin a link to this and the other thread on ghosting. A DWIN official called me a little while ago we're going to be working together to try and recreate the ghosting problem at Dwin. Hopefully it will enable them to research it and investigate possible solutions.

I see the same edge enhancement on some movies using both the D1 and the Sammie 931. Other movies do not display this problem. I, personally, think it is software related. I think it is much more noticeable because I'm not used to watching a screen that is about 9 feet wide! Anything is magnified when the picture is so much larger and more detailed than we were used to.

My $.02

Chad

I agree. My hunch is that it is software related, but since I'm new to DLP and DVI, I was curious.

Question- how do I change to a different memory setup for the same input? I have component 1 hooked to my AVM-20 which switches between my XBOX and my Denon 2900. I calibrated for the 2900 but need different settings for the xbox.
FREAK!

Originally posted by metallicafreak
Question- how do I change to a different memory setup for the same input? I have component 1 hooked to my AVM-20 which switches between my XBOX and my Denon 2900. I calibrated for the 2900 but need different settings for the xbox.
FREAK!

That would be a great feature--and most other PJs in this class I'm sure have it. But the Dwin only has one setting per input.

than what does this mean:
'20 Video Source Memories for Custom Setup and Automatic Recall'
This is one of the feature bullets listed on Dwin's site for the TV3.
FREAK!

Hey Rob....We are anxiously awaiting your review. Are you glued to the screen and can't get away to type a few words. :) :) :) :) I know I will be the same.

It up!

It's running!

It's looking good!

I am actually amazed at how good the Dwin looks right out of the box! Without a single adjustment, the colors looked great! The projector is really sharp, and plenty bright (but not too bright) with the SilverStar screen!

So far, I have not had a single issue with the Dwin. Even the crescent light spill on the ceiling is not very noticeable since I have a very dark grey ceiling. The fan noise is virtually the same that I remembered from my demo's.....about average compared to other pj's.

The picture from the Bravo D1 and DVI connection is really impressive! I watched parts of the new Lawrence of Arabia Superbit, and was really happy to get such a sharp picture from a DVD (although I was disappointed in the edge enhancement that is still present).

I purposely watched a few "average" transfer quality DVD's to see what they looked like, such as "Kaiwaanisqatsi". Again, I was very pleasantly surprised to get such detail, and especially happy with how very clean the picture is. No artifacts!

This reminds me of when I was doing my demo's of projectors. After seeing the Dwin, I really thought that it gave one of the very cleanest, artifact free pictures of any PJ. I still beleive this to be true, though admittedly I am using the DVI connection, and my demo's were all using component.

D-Theater rocks! If you don't have this deck, you might want to consider it at about $430.00!

Re the "ghost" issue. I definitely saw this on the titles at the beginning of Daredevil. This was on D-Theater!

I am not at all convinced that this means there is something wrong with the Dwin or it's optics. I would really like to see another DLP unit...I bet it would do the same thing.

I only saw this "ghosting" on the white letters and black background. For example, on Kaiwanisqatsi there is a scene where a very bright white moon moves across the black sky. This should show the same ghosting, right? Nada! Nothing. I even paused the scene to look for it, but it wasn't there at all.

The bottom line- I really love my Dwin! I have no doubt that I made the right decision in purchasing this pj! Add to the picture quality the great connectivity advantages (one cable to the pj, multiple DVI and component inputs etc) this is still the pj to beat!

I will have more on my impressions of this pj and the SilverStar combo later!

Awesome Rob. It makes the wait even worse for me now :) I should have everything installed in about 2 1/2 weeks. Until then I can just keep reading this thread and holding my breath.

Rob, what size is your SilverScreen? Also, do you have a large projector offset from the top of the screen?

My SilverStar is the biggest one they make: 122.5" diagonal (107 inches wide).

My offset is fairly large: 24 inches, and I am using the Dwin mount. If I remember correctly, 31 inches is the max offset.

I must again emphasize the fact that I have not seen the same "ghosting" effect seen on the white credits on black background on any other high contrast scene.....and believe me, I am still very much in that hyper critical mode when it comes to reviewing my system...so I am very much looking for this effect.

Rob- You describe an image defect that may not be what others are seeing as "ghosting"

"This should show the same ghosting, right? Nada! Nothing. I even paused the scene to look for it, but it wasn't there at all."

What I believe you are seeing in this case is a field order anomaly that rears it's ugly head during the motion of interlaced field video when it is rendered to progressive scan or when it is rendered to fields again but the field order gets reversed from the original natural motion in the original scene. This can take place at any step in the process and once generated it is very difficult to remove. There are many places where the field order can get reversed in the entire program shooting to final viewing process. Normally, this issue is only present on left to right or right to left motion in the scene but not up down or down -up motion. It would completely disappear on still images when it was present in the moving video. Unfortunately, I have seen this in nearly 25% of all edited video but I will say this is getting better as more editors are becoming aware of the problem and are working to avoid it. It started to become an issue back when animators began to work with video rendering using computers.

The next issue some may confuse with ghosting is a vertical movement offend observed in credits roll of white text on black background and this is a field issue too where the original image is too close to the half line count of the final and we see a line jumping of the edge of text during the vertical roll. This produces a double line jumping of the edge of an image that has a sharp defined break point and is often noticed in graphics that do not use antialiased edges, all too often on film white on black text. Most video CG's will use antialiasing to help avoid this issue.

The ghosting images presented here look nothing like the above well defined issues They appear vertical and seem to have an echo of multiple instances that are somewhat out of focus from the primary image. Toxarch has captured it on digital still. I do not have this on my TV3 and only rely of what MVideo and Toxarch have shown what it is.

The above two video issues are also visible on any monitor, including CRT's and standard High res TV sets. The ghosting should be able to be captured from a still image has has been shown. If your ghosting is on sideways motion and stops on stills, then I think you are seeing the very common field order artifact.

Hey Don,

Have you gotten anymore info from DWIN reagrding your earlier post and the FAQ sheet you created?

Matthew

If your ghosting is on sideways motion and stops on stills, then I think you are seeing the very common field order artifact.

No, as I said, this was on vertically scrolling credits that I saw it. White "fringing" above the white letters, which was NOT clearly defined, so I agree that "ghosting" may not be the proper description since there is no "mirror image" to what I was observing.

Rob- Unless you realy know what you are looking at it is hard to tell but the vertical interlacing one sees will be evident on some but not all credits. I see it here typically on upconverted showtime movies that have the white on black text. On HDTV it is never there.

The secondary image is always one scan line jump as the text rolls up.


The ghosting I saw looks more like a series of video echo or feedback and they diminish in brightness and focus as they cascade farther away from the promary image.

__________________________

Matthew-- No, I have not heard back from them since my last e-mail request to quote what they said, specifically about:

Dust inside the projector and user installed air filters.

The Dwin secret code for access to the menus on grayscale adjustment.

The recommended screen type and why they do not approve certain types of screens.


If I don't hear from them by Friday, I will try to give my contact there a call.

Here's something interesting and I don't think I've mentioned it on here before. It's nothing critical that would affect your viewing, just something I noticed that was interesting. When I was putting in a filter into the DWIN a while ago, I was blowing air into the fans from the inside to clean any dust they might have collected. When I pulled off the bulb cover, I noticed that there was some discoloration on the inside of the cover. It just happened that the shapes matched up with the opening on the top of the bulb. I doubt it affects anything in the projector, but thought I'd post it when I saw it in my picture collection. I don't think it's from heat, I think it's the bulb light fading the color of the light cover. This was taken when the projector had under 200 hours.

Speaking of bulbs- Has anyone found a lower cost source for these special bulbs?

I have one spare I purchased 2 monts ago but I am now over 1100hours on the bulb so I am soon going to need to find another spare.

Don,
Considering all, would you buy DWIN again?

Be thankful you don't also have color uniformity issues, and a manufacturer who is in complete denial of what an acceptable image is for HT.

Considering all, not only would I buy the Dwin again but I probably would not waste any personal time looking and deliberating like I did the first time. Reason is that until other companies adopt the wide variety of input selections, especially the switchable DVI, in a separate controller box, they will not grab my attention. With all the HD2 DLP PJ's so close in PQ this difference becomes a minor issue in my opinion.

I will keep an eye on DILA and other technology, however.

"Be thankful you don't also have color uniformity issues, and a manufacturer who is in complete denial of what an acceptable image is for HT."

I don't know what this is but really don't want to get into an ABC PJ vs. Dwin in this thread because we owners have all agreed that we would work to keep the other PJ vs. Dwin topics and posts out of this thread.
Thanks MIke for understanding.

until other companies adopt the wide variety of input selections, especially the switchable DVI, in a separate controller box, they will not grab my attention. With all the HD2 DLP PJ's so close in PQ this difference becomes a minor issue in my opinion.

Absolutely agree 100% with that comment!

I am surprised that more pj manufacturer's have not followed Dwin's lead and come out with the two box solution with the same connectivity as the Dwin.

I second that! I can't understand why more companies don't use the two box solution with lots of inputs. It seems so logical to keep all the inputs close to the source. In my case, I bought the TV3 sight-unseen because of the two box solution and image quality recommendations in this forum. It just seemed very wrong to have to run three or four (or more) sets of video cables 35' from my rack to the projector -- not to mention all the added expense. I probably would have purchased a separate video switcher, but why bother when the TV3 already had it along with a stunning picture.

Sign me up as someone who would buy a TV3 again in a heartbeat.

I have a (relatively minor) complaint.

This is regarding the Dwin's remote control. More particularly, it has to do with the fact that you can't select which input you want directly, but have to "toggle" through them.

Why is this important?

Well, I purchased a Parasound Halo C 2 controller, which comes with a great remote control...the MX-700. This remote is capable of accepting MACROS that allow for numerous commands to be performed with the touch of a single button.

Here is what I can do with the push of a single button on this remote (for this example, I want to watch a DVD via DVI input):

1. Turn on DVD player
2. Have DVD player eject tray for insertion of DVD
3. Turn on Parasound Controller (which, in turn, turns on the AMP via trigger)
4. Turn on DWIN projector
5. Switch the Parasound C 2 to the appropriate input for DVD sound
6. Bring up the Dwin's Menu

Now, unfortunately, #6 is the problem. Instead of just bringing up the Dwin's menu, I would like to program the macro so the Dwin would go to the appropriate input...DVI 1 in this case. But that can't be done since you have to "toggle" through the inputs instead of going there directly with the push of a single button. As such, the compromise is to bring up the menu, so the inputs are ready to be toggled through.

Yes, this is a minor complaint, but it does prevent completely seamless integration with the other components.

Rob:

I have an MX700 and I am pretty sure that my macro' s allow me to do exactly what you are saying. I am almost positive. I believe the remote has discrete codes for the 10 inputs. I believe its in the users manual so you would just have to teach your remote. If you want I can send you my MX file.

-sonny

Rob,
You don't have to toggle. All the number buttons correspond to an input. The 9 is DVI1 and the 0 is DVI2.

Thanks guys, didn't realize!

I love this board!

:)

How do you toggle? I've always just pushed one of the numbers.

Just kidding! It's in the manual, Rob. :)

Toggling is the one problem I have with macros. With my old ECP-4000 system, and my Denon 5700, the fact that so many programs toggled through and required the start point be the same prevented me from making the HT fool proof, AKA wife proof (don't tell her I said that!) I'm hoping that when the 921 gets installed and a new DVD player, my HT will become toggle proof AKA fool proof.

Don - one thing I've learned in all my years as an I.T. specialist is this: You can't make it fool proof because fools are too clever.

Amen on that MVideo. We have two DVD players so I set up 2 macros. All you have to do is insert a DVD and then press one button. MOVIE1 for the old DVD player or MOVIE2 for the new one. It will switch everything including the inputs for the DWIN and even turn the lights off. But noone can remember that when I am not in the house. So I get phone calls while I am out because they were trying to switch everything through menus.

Also, on the MX700 remote (I also have the C2), I believe you can program in the DWIN and the buttons for the remote's screen will display the various DWIN inputs. Or maybe I programmed those in. I don't remember, but it's worth a look.

I can't believe that you guys actually READ the manual!

Am I the only real "man" here?

:D
:D

I only read the manual if I can't figure out how to do it on my own or if I mess it up too bad trying to figure it out on my own.

An advantage of traveling lots! The first flight you read SkyMiles to learn about all the ridiculous junk you could buy and lug along with you on these flights, Next Flight-watch a movie on the laptop you rent at the airport but the battery on the laptop runs out before the end of the movie and you have no power in your seat to recharge with that $175 laptop airline seat charger you bought from SkyMiles :( ; third flight, RTFM from recent toys purchased. After a few days of travel, you realize that the most benefit comes from using flight time to read manuals on all the great stuff you have in your HT. Besides, what else can you do while waiting 33rd in line to take off at Newark? Can't call your wife and chit chat because your cell phone will cause the pilot to lose his place in line. Can't watch a movie on your laptop because the battery is dead from your morning flight and the airport security confiscated your spare because they, in their infinite wisdom from great government training, thought it was a bomb (says so on the side of the battery where it talks about discarding the battery properly because if you tossed it in a fire it may "EXPLODE"). And if you read SkyMiles you may be tempted to pick up the seat phone and pay $9 a minute to call and order a solar / cosmic radiation powered lap-top charger for $675 that will recharge your laptop in under 24 hours!
Moral of the story- RTFM- The only cheap thing to read that will benefit you many times over.

I have experienced a rather serious lip synch issue on two consecutive movies (audio and video at least one second apart) using my Bravo D1 via DVI output.

Anyone else experience this problem?

I had been using my Bravo with my Mitsubishi HDTV via component, and never had a lip synch issue. However, I was using the analog coax connection for audio, and switched to the optical connection when I moved the unit to my dedicated HT.

I have switched back to the coax connection for audio. I have watched two more movies this way, and have not experienced the problem again so far.

Keeping fingers crossed!

I realize this is a thread for owners, but I'm in need of a little help to get there. I'm a bit concerned about light spill and dust, but I've convinced myself that building a hushbox for the unit would not be the end of the world. So now I'm shopping around to get some idea of current prices - any advice on the best places to check on pricing and/or best places to buy would be greatly appreciated. Also, is there any update on when DWIN will start shipping with the HD2+ chip (I understand that, in the case of DWIN, the only advantage of HD2+ over HD2 will be reduced dimple).

thanks, and I hope to come back as a fully sanctioned poster in the near future :)

-fafrd

Earlier in the thread there were some pics and sources for the hushbox.
Maybe those who went that route will pop in here and give you a link to their posts because this thread is getting quite large now. Links like those could be a good addition to the TV3 FAQ and maybe I'll do some research on that for the next update.

Feel free to post here with your questions anytime. The only request we made is to not come here to debate TV3 vs. other projectors as those debates waste everyone's (TV3 Owners) time and never go anywhere. If you choose to buy a TV3 then most people here understand the reasons and those are quite obvious compared to the tired, boring debate on PQ.
If you're not sure and want such a debate, a special thread for that purpose is called for.

Rob Tomlin:

Expect more sync issues with DVI. I have had some 40 DVDs with sound heard 2 or 3 frames in advance of pix with the Samsung 931 DVI feed to my DWIN TV3(but NOT with component video output). Others also have reported the same problem in AVS threads. No solution yet, but the following excerpt from "Secrets of Audio/Video may explain the reason:


"The Silicon Image chip buffers 4 fields at all times, which it uses for cadence analysis as well as motion analysis in video mode. As a result, it is much better than the Genesis at handling cadence problems and combs very little. Its video-mode deinterlacing algorithm is motion-adaptive, and is substantially better than the one on the Genesis. It handles 2-2 cadence with no trouble. Overall, it?s one of the best performing deinterlacers on the market, comparable only to much more expensive products from Faroudja, and a few others.
One disadvantage of the 4 field buffer is that it adds delay to the video output. If the audio is not delayed the same amount as the video, lip sync problems can result.
The chip offers a special digital audio pass-through that will delay the audio the appropriate amount so it synchs up with the video, but very few companies use it."


From: DVD Player Benchmark - Part 5 - Progressive Scan DVD
?Secrets of A/V?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html



? Any more (non)sync reports from AVS members ? ? ?

fafrd,

I decided to buy a hushbox for my tv3 since I want to minimize the fan noise whenever we watch a quiet movie. It has filter foams to avoid dusts getting into the hushbox. It also further reduces the projector noise with the use of dB engineering foams and anti-reflection optic glass at the front of the hushbox. If you're interested I'll PM you some info where I bought it.

-twelly

Don,

thanks for your answer, and don't worry - I've been lurking around here long enough that I'm aware of the groundrules.

Appreciate the pointers, but my post was not clear. I've got the hushbox designed - it's pricing and best places to buy the TV3 that I'm looking for.

What is the DWIN TV3 currently selling for and which what are some outfits which are recommended as sources?

Also, if anyone knows about the timing of the DWIN conversion from HD2 to HD2+ (reduced dimple only) I'd appreciate it.

-fafrd

Twelly,

I was planning on a DIY hushbox, but if there are aftermarket hushboxes which are viable I could be interested. I'll send you a PM to get details.

-fafrd

Any tv3 owners here hooked up a jvc d-vhs into their tv3 pj? Is it worth it as far as PQ is concern? I read some good things about it but I haven't seen it in action yet. I guess I'll have to do some research in other threads. I'm just curious.

-twelly

I recall seeing someone posting about a thin vertical line on right side border of the raster. For the life of me I can't find the thread. Does anyone else have this problem? Is there a remedy? I fired up my TV3 this weekend and the line is there.

Also, does the lenscap modification completely get rid of the lightspill on the ceiling? What is the dimension detail of the cut-out required for the modification?

And....any other feedback on the TV3>SilverStar combo?

Thanks in advance! :cool:

The vertical line can be eliminated by adjusting the horz. image position in the setup menu.

Any tv3 owners here hooked up a jvc d-vhs into their tv3 pj? Is it worth it as far as PQ is concern?

Yes. And yes!

You can't beat the pq of the D-Theater deck from JVC! It has had some well documented problems, most of which appear to have been remedied now. I got mine for $427.00 shipped, and it was worth every penny!

And....any other feedback on the TV3>SilverStar combo?

Yes. I still love the brightness and the colors that the SilverStar gives you. I also still very much dislike the sheen the screen has that really shows up in brighter, solid color scenes, which gives those scenes a grainy/gritty look.

I would really love to do an A/B comparison with another screen (Firehawk or StudioTek) to see if the benefits of the SilverStar outweight it's negatives. It nearly impossible to tell without doing a direct comparison.

MVideo: Thanks!

Rob: Does decreasing the brightness affect the 'sheen'?

Not that I could tell.

I should probably try to keep on topic here, so I will post more in the Screens section of the forum later today.

Thanks Rob. I'll look for your post.:cool:

I just received my Silverstar (that I happened to win at CEDIA - cha-ching!) and I will post some A/B shots generated using the same TV3 in a couple of weeks. I'm also getting a new wide angle lens for my Canon 10D digital SLR camera, so I should be able to get some decent shots.

thanks,

Brent Huskins
Media Design

fafrd-

Appreciate the pointers, but my post was not clear. I've got the hushbox designed - it's pricing and best places to buy the TV3 that I'm looking for.


Under forum rules it is not permissible to discuss discounts and prices beyond MSRP. Also, since we are in the AVS house, I have to say that AVS is able to handle your TV3 needs. As a guest forum member you owe it to your host to at least contact them! Beyond that I'd recommend you contact Dwin for their list of dealers serving your location.


Brent- Greatly looking forward to your screen shots on the Silverstar. The thread by tryg is quite enlighteniung on that screen but the downside is that the Silverstah is a hard board system, not a roll up capable design so all I can do is envy those who have the Silverstar advantage!

Vutec showed their roll up Silverstar at CEDIA - soon to be released.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Thanks, Brent. I'll be sure to check it out! I will be screen shopping at this CES show.

I am not sure which is worse waiting for a new T3 to arrive or staring at the box because the HT room is not ready :) I can officially claim to be a T3 owner but will not have everything installed until next weekend. I am pairing the T3 with a 110" Silverstar and will be posting plenty of reviews and screen-shots. Thanks to all in this thread for the wealth of info that helped me decide on the PJ.

Matthew

Congrats Matthew.

I know the feeling...I had my Dwin for about 7 weeks or more before I was able to finally fire it up.

It is difficult to judge just how long it takes to complete a room. Don't under-estimate the time it takes to do the finish work!

I have a couple people from this board coming over this weekend for demo/review/calibration of my Dwin TV3 and SilverStar combo.

Review (hopefully including their comments as well) to follow.

I'm planning (based on advice from forum members) to buy a DVI based DVD player for the DWIN tv3. When running one of these players through the TV3 does one use any scaling on the player or do you just have it output native 480p and let the transscanner do the work?

I think most of us set the DVI player to output 720p, which matches the projectors native resolution.

I see very little difference in the settings myself, but many others think the 720p output is slightly better.

I let the DVD player do the scaling. Either way should be alright. But it looks cooler to have the player and the DWIN screen display 720p when switching to DVI. Then those who are "in the know" are kinda impressed.

schlitzie - Toxarch ; any word from Dwin or your dealers regarding the ghosting? Dwin can't seem to reproduce it in any of their projectors at all.

It's frustrating to me to know that other projectors don't have this issue and I seem to be stuck with it.

"Dwin can't seem to reproduce it in any of their projectors at all. "

Ask me if I'm surprised?


Why didn't you ask them to ship you the one that they claim does not show the ghosts?
:)

Well, I'm a bit frustrated as well. I sent my dealer some photos of the effect and a link to this thread, and they came back with a diagnosis of "chromatic aberration", which seems like one of those big nebulous terms that are used when it could be any one of a million different things but no one is sure exactly which. I then sent the same photos on to DWIN asking for their comment/solution, and one week later still no reply even after a follow up email. I will call them in a few days and undoubtedly get the "unit is performing to spec" routine, but we'll see. I'm happy for the folks that got good units -- my Dwin experience has not been so great.

Another TV3 question:

There are TWO 12 volt triggers. Can I use this to control a a Stewart electrimask screen system to change it from 16:9 -> 4:3 depending on teh image type the transscanner is putting out?

I will be hooking up:

1. A VCR (ugh)
2. HDTV cable box (comcast)
3. DVD

I'm assuming I'd still have to select the mode 16:9 or 4:3 on the transscanner but after that, can it take care of business and manage the screen's geometry?

R-S

And another TV 3 question!!!

What type of plug is the trigger based on? I need to know so I can spec
the wiring in the house.

Thanks!

R-S

R-S:

Here it is from the Manual-
OFF : Relay is off
Power: Relay is on when unit is on
4:3 : Relay is on when 4:3 AR is selected
16:9 : Relay is on when Anamorphic or Letter box AR are selected.

The connector is a mini barrel connector (not sure what size but the two plugs that fit come with the TV3. The two relays are designed to work with a variable AR masking screen such as a Dalite or Stewart. I am considering getting one of these next year. So the ability of the projector to auto configure the screen/mask with at least 4:3 vs. 16X9 was a good thing for me but I don't think it will work for selecting automatically 2.35 AR vs, 1.78 AR. I will need to see what can be done but since there is nothing in the Projector to select this 2.35 AR in the menus, you'd have to do that one outside of the TV3. As I see it there is no such thing as a screen AR sensing but rather it triggers the RLY output based on what you preset in the menu for a given video source.

Hope this helps and if you get it working you can let me know how you did it. :)

Don,

Thanks.

R-S

The TV3 does not sense 4:3/16:9 -- I had to set screen masking to be triggered from within my AMX system manually with an icon on the touch panel.

Strange. According to the manual it triggers based on the input mode.

Page14 of the transcanner 3 manual. Check it out...R-S

While I don't have anything connected, I did go check out the menu settings and you can hear the relays clicking when you make the switch from an input with 4:3 setting, such as a VHS VCR amd one with 16x9 input such as a DVD player or HDTV receiver after you have these set in the menu. Now, as for how this works your screen motors and masking, that will be up to you to figure out how to integrate the signals from these 12 vdc outputs to your particular screen specs. You may need buffer relays???

Considering that the screen with masks for TV3 viewing has 3 positions.

Power off
16x9
4X3

I'd guess a good start would be to use RL1 to switch between screen up and down with the power. Down being the 16x9 position.
Use RL2 to trigger the vertical masks to switch the screen AR from 16x9 to 4x3.

Since there is no position for 2.35 AR you'd have to do that with a manual selection from the 16x9 setting, assuming your screen can be programmed for that AR. I know the Dalite system can do that as I have looked into it that far. I have yet to examine the Stewart system but I'm sure it is equally qualified.

Actually, my manual has the brief instructions on page 7, para 3 and page 15, relay setup.

Just to let you know, there is no aspect control with a DVI input. Or at least I have no control over aspect control with my Bravo DVI input. I have to manually switch a component aspect ratio but can't change it for DVI. The unit or the player automatically sets it for me, which is kinda nice, unless you have a masked screen.

schlitzie, I don't think the ghosting effect is chromatic aberration, because I observe a little (unobjectionable) CA as well as a ghosting effect.

The CA I observe is manifest by looking closely at the screen and noticing purple fringing about one pixel "north" of white high contrast pixels on a black background.

The ghosting I observe is manifest with ordinary viewing at ordinary distances and occurs some tens of pixels above white high contrast pixels. The effect is most noticable in credits. I just noticed it again, this time in Star Wars I and II in the scrolling yellow story introductions against the black background of space and stars. The ghosting I observe is not bright and sharp, but rather is like a blurry echo of bright areas that lie below.

My setup is a TV3, fed DVI from a D1 and a HTPC, projecting onto a smallish FireHawk at near maximum lens shift.

Originally posted by Don Landis
While I don't have anything connected, I did go check out the menu settings and you can hear the relays clicking when you make the switch from an input with 4:3 setting, such as a VHS VCR amd one with 16x9 input such as a DVD player or HDTV receiver after you have these set in the menu. Now, as for how this works your screen motors and masking, that will be up to you to figure out how to integrate the signals from these 12 vdc outputs to your particular screen specs. You may need buffer relays???


Don,

Thanks for confirming this. Let me ask another question since you're listening to relays :). I'm planning on hooking up a VCR (4:3), DVD at 720p (16:9) and a cable box which will output HDTV. I see from the manual that when it changes sources the screen configuration chages depending on the input scan rate for the box. I don't have an HDTV box so I'm unsure about how this works, does the Transscanner switch the AR of the screen based on the signal from a box or does it just say everything on INPUT X is of type Y because we set it up that way? Basically what I want to know is if I select RELAY 2 to be 4:3 and hook up my cable box, when I select an HDTV channel, will that cause the trigger to fire?

R-S

R-S:

"just say everything on INPUT X is of type Y because we set it up that way"

That is the way I think it works. Except in the case of DVI where the setup IS set to the input signal. Most likely you will have the 16x9 for DVI configured for you as Toxarch has said. The others you must set it up.

Here's where you will have a change setup: Connect your DVD player by component. Now set it for anamorphic 16x9 for that input. Then along comes the DVD that is "letterbox" When that happens, I have to manually change my TV3 for letterbox for that particular DVD. I suspect that the DVI outputs will do this automatically but the analog DVD players will need this changed manually. The good thing is you won't need to modify the relays as both go to a 16x9 screen, except in the very rare DVD that is a 4:3 screen format. When this happens you will need to figure out a manual over-ride switch to force the screen to 4:3 for those rare DVD's in 4:3 format. If I were doing this, I would go into the menu and set that 4:3 DVD up as a 4:3 and then it should adjust your screen masks automatically, then when done set it back to 16x9 anamorphic for your default.

Just remember that when you design any system for automatic control, there will always be times when the program source will dictate exceptions to the rules for automatic configuration. I think DVI will certainly aid in setting your screen to the type dictated by the program source, 4:3, 16x9(anamorphic or letterbox) or screen up and away. With analog, your must do a manual override for that input.

I am hoping that the DVR-921(DVI) and a DVD player in DVI will work for the best fully automatic to controled screen, masks and AR control for all my program sources.

BTW- What screen system did you buy, or plan to buy? So far I have only seen two mfg's that even make a complete vertical and horizontal system for all AR's. Stewart and Dalite. Since this will be a big expense for me, if I don't see one in operation at a trade show, I plan to travel to the factory by appointment to see it before making my final decision. I won't spend that much on a screen only to be not satisfied that my decision was correct. A round trip ticket to Ca from Jacksonville isn't that much!

Don - if you're ever in NY and want to take a look at the Stewark Electimask and BRIC combo, let me know.

Raoul - I just aquired the Stewart. My 2 cents - get the BRIC controller; it's worth every dime.

The BRIC's $10K isn't it?

I'm buying a Stewart Electriscreen 16:9 with vertical masking. It goes from 16:9 to 4:3. I'm not sweating the 1.85 and 2.35 stuff. I'll letterbox those ARs. I'm not keen on huge tracts of white when watching the 4:3 stuff.

R-S

The BRIC retails for $3K and yes it is well worth it. It is an elaborate controller to precisely manage the 4 way ElectiMask by Stewart that can handle ALL aspect ratios and retails for $6k to $8K depending on size.

This is hands down the best screen combo available for the serious videophile.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Raoul - don't discount masking on the 1:85 and 2:25. While I totally respect your preferences, it's much more important than the 4:3 masks IMHO.

I notice you're in NY. If you would like to see the Stewart with horizontal masking using the BRIC, I'd be happy to have you up.

"Don - if you're ever in NY and want to take a look at the Stewark Electimask and BRIC combo, let me know."

Right now we are trying to schedule a trip that way for November second week but that is my optimism. It will be my luck the clients will want us up there when the first big snow storm hits!


The screen I want to get is to be the one to end all other screen updates. I spent under $800 for my 120" Daylite rollup and now want to put something in that will do it all! I agree with you that the full masking vertical and horizontal plus tensioned is a must have for me. But currently, I'm not sure what fabric to choose. I'm not yet sold on the firehawk. I may wait it out even for another year to get something like that silverstar in the full roll up configuration and masks if it looks like it will be in the availability game plan. $10K budget is OK with me for something that will last 6 years minimum. Meanwhile I have full manual masking and electric roll up in a matte white that does just fine. I don't believe Vutec offers full electric controlled masking.

I hope I can clear up a little confusion here.

Chromatic aberration causes color fringing because uncorrected lenses do not bend all colors uniformly. Try looking through a simple magnifying glass and you will see the resulting color fringing- mostly at the sides of the image. So, the fringing on the Dwin could be the result of chromatic aberration and only cured by a more expensive lens system. BTW, this problem was exactly the same on the TV1 and TV2. CRT projectors don't have this problem because each lens only handles a very narrow color range.

The ghosting cannot be CA because there is no color separation to the effect. It looks a lot like the result of reflections from the inside of the lens assembly.

The Dwin handles aspect ratio control exactly the same way on the DVI input as the analog inputs. I think the confusion is because a lot of you are using the DVI for 720P feeds from your DVD players and the Dwin automatically (and exclusively) goes into anamorphic mode on all 720P and 1080i signals regardless of input.

All I can say is "Phenomenal" I installed my T3 with a 110" Silverstar this weekend and could not be happier. I have this combo in a muti-purpose finished basement with theater, bar, and billiards area. I went with the SS due to some ambient light concerns. The minute I fired this up all my concerns were gone. Thanks to all in this thread for your valued posts. I purchased this PJ sight unseen due mainly to this thread and the single cable solution. I will be posting pictures soon.

Thanks,
Matthew

I hope someone out there can answer this. I am setting up my TV3 with a Silverstar screen. My problem is that I have two large SVS tube subs below the screen and a ceiling fan in front of the projector. The projector lens is approximately 3 inches above the screen edge. In order to avoid the keystone wheel I have to angle the projector toward the ceiling. It looks very odd to have the projector pointing up toward the ceiling. I suppose the focus is ok but the image is not really rectangular. Should I leave it that way or point straight at the screen and move the wheel to extreme counter clockwise position?

Congrats Matthew!

Billy-

Definitely do not angle the projector like that. You are going to have some serious keystone problems. Aim it straight at the screen and use the wheel.

Hi Billy,

I'll be coming through Austin on Monday and Friday of next week. Do you live close off of I-35? If you need someone that has installed SEVERAL TV3's to take a quick look at your setup, I'd be more than happy to help. By the way, welcome to the forum.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Thanx Brent, I sent you a pm.

Thanks to all on this thread, I now have a TV3 projecting onto a Studiotek 4 way electrimask. I'm very happy with the pq. The tv3 is mounted in a whisperflow hushbox which is vernted out to the attic using an ATM(active thermal) fan. We got a Lutron Grafik eye controller for the lights and now finally have the whole shebang programmed into my Pronto. Gotta say that it is so cool when you hit play on the DVD player, the lights dim, the screen adjusts, and this way cool picture comes on. MAGIC!

Now I just gotta get a DVI output DVD player. When will the madness end? Gotta go watch some more movies!

Thanks so much to bhuskins and to all of you!

AGN

Rooney,
congrats! I thought about the hush box before I got my TV3 but now that I have logged 100+ hours on it, IMO I don't even notice the noise. The picture is too friggin good and big for me to be anything but wrapped up in whatever I am watching.
I love my TV3 and, very cool, so does my wife! She loves the big screen and the major changes we made to our theater.
FREAK!

torach...the tv3 will give you aspect control on dvi only on 480p, not the others

Just connected the new Denon DVD5900 to the Dwin TV3. Stunning.

Was using the DVI out on the bravo but could not stand the bugs and the poor sound from the Bravo. The video from the 5900 (component only still) is sharper and has a more filmlike image. Colors are much improved. The sound...it's significantly improved. Especially using the coax jack on the denon, the room came to life.

IMO...The Dwin has met it's match.

Excited to see the results once the DVI is enabled. Spoke with Denon last week and they are going to start sending disks out in early nov.

The 5900 sounds like a nice product, but I'm not sure why the sound would be better than what the Bravo is giving us?

But that is getting off topic, isn't it? :)

I just connected the new Sony DVP-CX777ES 400 disc megachanger to the T3. This plays DVD, CD, SACD, CDRW, MP3 etc. The picture is stunning. I was using the Pioneer DV37 and can not believe the difference. Only downside...no DVI out. However, the picture is so good with the component, I am very happy.

This T3 just keeps getting better and better. :)

My TV3 is still one of my favorite purchases. It never ceases to amaze me with amazing picture quality. I'm so spoiled. That said, I ran into a little problem. This weekend I converted my Pronto controlled HT from RF control back to IR. I started with RF because all of my equipment is in a locked closet (I have twins who like to play with stuff). Unfortunately, something in my house is sending out too much RF interference, causing the range on my Pronto to drop from 100+ feet to about 5 feet -- not good. So, I broke down and got an IR repeater and several stick-on IR emitters. Other than having to point my Pronto at the IR receiver now, everything works great except for the TV3. The TV3 controls are really slow. I can only get one command every few seconds. I tried different emitters, but nothing works. With the RF system, things were really snappy, so I doubt it is something with the TV3's IR sensor. I haven't tried it yet, but does anyone think it may be that the TV3 is getting confused because both the projector and the scaler box are receiving IR commands, most likely not at the same time? I'm thinking the IR signals are bouncing off my screen to the projector sensor as well as being sent to the box in the closet. Should I cover the pj sensor or disconnect the IT emitter in the closet?

Anyone else run into this?

Originally posted by bstrong
Just connected the new Denon DVD5900 to the Dwin TV3. Stunning.

Was using the DVI out on the bravo but could not stand the bugs and the poor sound from the Bravo. The video from the 5900 (component only still) is sharper and has a more filmlike image. Colors are much improved. The sound...it's significantly improved. Especially using the coax jack on the denon, the room came to life.

IMO...The Dwin has met it's match.

Excited to see the results once the DVI is enabled. Spoke with Denon last week and they are going to start sending disks out in early nov.
I should have my 5900 on friday. I may be DVI active. We shall see... Can't FREAK'n wait!
FREAK!

Originally posted by godavego
Anyone else run into this?

I used to have the same problem, only my equipment is in a rack. The projector would react really slow and sometimes not react at all. I figured the problem was the projector and the scaler both getting the same commands. I took the IR emitter off the scaler in the rack and all commands worked great. The remote bounces the IR signals off the screen and goes to the projector. You could either pull off the emitter or maybe even put a piece of black tape over the IR eye on the projector. I haven't tried the tape but it should work.

I don't use the DWIN remote often, but I noticed a problem with it lately. When adjusting any settings, I just hold down the arrow button. But the remote will start switching to something like the DVD player by itself. then I have to wait a few seconds before I am able to go back to the DWIN. Is this something with all the MX500 remotes, or just mine? It gets real annoying because once it happens, then it keeps happening every time I try to adjust the settings again.

bstrong, metallicafreak,

When the Denon 5900 gets down to $200 or so I'll dump my Bravo. Until then I'll consider it one of the best bangs for the buck I own, problems or not.

Toxarch,

Thanks for the info. That's what I thought was the problem. Unfortunately, I didn't think of it till I was on my way out the door this morning. I forgot that the projector had an IR receiver as well. I will try both methods and see what works best for my HT. For your system, do you find that you need to be right in front of the screen for it to work? I suspect that my IR receiver has more of a useful angle (110 degrees) than bouncing the IR signal off the screen.

Originally posted by kraigk
bstrong, metallicafreak,

When the Denon 5900 gets down to $200 or so I'll dump my Bravo. Until then I'll consider it one of the best bangs for the buck I own, problems or not.
IMO I prefered my 2900's component out to my bravo's DVI.
FREAK

godavego, my remote will work the projector from any of our seats and even wider than that.

No remote issues at all. Very responsive.
FREAK!

I don't use the DWIN remote often, but I noticed a problem with it lately. When adjusting any settings, I just hold down the arrow button. But the remote will start switching to something like the DVD player by itself. then I have to wait a few seconds before I am able to go back to the DWIN. Is this something with all the MX500 remotes, or just mine? It gets real annoying because once it happens, then it keeps happening every time I try to adjust the settings again

Universal's remotes start doing funny things like that when the batteries start getting weak. One would hope that the "low battery" message would come on first, but the remotes start misbehaving well before the message appears.

I agree with Scott.

Also, the Universal remotes go through batteries fairly quickly (though not as fast as Pronto's from what I understand).

Thanks for the replies. I didn't really think about the batteries since I just used the MX500 for transferring Lutron codes to the other remote (MX700) and sometimes for the DWIN settings. Not really used it enough to wear out the batteries, but I guess 7 months is long enough when it's just sitting there. I'll try swapping out the batteries.

Sorry, I thought the remote was a MX500. It's a Theater Master SL-9000.

Sorry, I thought the remote was a MX500. It's a Theater Master SL-9000.

Wow!

I thought that "Macho Law prohibits you from admitting you are wrong"!

:D

It does, but I allowed it this time since I corrected myself.

I have a question for all of you using either the Samsung 931 or the Bravo D1 DVD players. I read the Widescreen Review article about these 2 players. In it they used a Yamaha DPX1000 pj and stated that it had a menu item toggling the DVI input to specify a video vs. computer input. Does the Dwin have this in the advanced (secret) menu? If this can be set up in the menu, does it allow the D1 to pass below black info on the Pluge pattern?

Thanks in advance!

AGN

what's the difference between the two settings in the video output?

Panamorph Lens

Has anyone tried or heard of anyone trying the Panamorph lens with the TV3. I don't really understand how this lens can improve the performance of our pj or if it is even really applicable to the TV3. However, if it can provide a serious improvement, then it seems the bang may be worth the buck.

I'd appreciate any enlightenment.

Chad

Hi,

I've started seeing some ghosting on my tv3. I just noticed this after watching some movies with light/white image over dark/black background. Has anyone of you encountered such anomaly on your tv3? I remember somebody posted similar problem before. One thing I noticed though is that I only see the ghosting effect on images that are displayed at the lower half of the screen. One example is the scrolling credits. The ghosting effect appears as soon as the credit text appears at the bottom and starts to disappear once it scrolls up. Do you think this is caused by a bad optics? Maybe misaligned. I tried playing around with the lens offset but it didn't help. I never saw this anomaly on my first tv3 unit. This is my 2nd tv3 unit after they replaced mine due to the gray blob problem that I had with my first unit. This was taken from the movie "The Hulk". I appreciate your opinion.

Another anomaly I noticed is the greenish radiant background at the upper right quadrant of the screen. This appears during dark scenes or total black image. You won't see it on my ghosting shots but my camera will catch it if I increase the delay of the shutter speed.

Anybody seen these anomalies? Anyway, I've already contacted my dealer. I hope DWIN replace my unit. Other than that, this PJ rocks. I still love it. I just hope they continue to improve the quality of their product.

Attached are the pictures I took:

ghosting:
ghosting pix #1 (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/ghost001.jpg)
ghosting pix #2 (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/ghost002.jpg)
ghosting pix #3 (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/ghost003.jpg)
ghosting pix #4 (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/ghost004.jpg)
ghosting pix #5 (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/ghost005.jpg)
ghosting pix #6 (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/ghost006.jpg)

greenish radiant background:
greenish pix #1 (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/greenish001.jpg)
greenish pix #2 (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/greenish002.jpg)

I appreciate any of your opinions.

thanks,
twelly

Twelly, MVideo first reported having the ghosting problem and then I reported having the same ghosting problem. My ghosting is from the bottom of the screen to the top, just more of it in the lower half.

Here is where I posted the picture of my ghosting problem back on page 52:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2714153#post2714153

MVideo started a new thread on it to get more input and also contacted DWIN about it. I don't know whatever came of his contact with DWIN. I was told by my dealer that I've had the projector too long to be able to get a replacement from DWIN.

Tox,

Dwin will take care of any issues you have - they will likely opt to fix it versus send out a free replacement though. They usuually only replace units that have problems right out of the box.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

I have none of the ghosts or glow you clearly displayed, Twelly. You should get your dealer to fix that.

Well, DWIN claims that none of their projectors have had the ghosting problem and they have never seen it and claim nothing is wrong with their optics. So I'm not willing to spend my money to send in the projector just for them to tell me that they don't see a problem with it.

When I first got the projector, I told them about the crescent light spill out the lens. They told me there was no light spill out the lens. I told them mine did and they told me to send it for repair. Well, it turned out that all the projectors had the light spill. So I would have sent in my projector for nothing. They also say there are no dust problems with the TV3 either.

Long story short, I'm not ready to send in my projector for a couple of weeks just to have them send it back saying nothing is wrong since they haven't seen it.

twelly-

What screen do you use?

The pics posted by Twelly show that something is clearly wrong with his projector.

I still think that the ghosting that others described and posted pictures is something that is pretty much inherent in DLP technology. I see a slight ghosting on white letters on a black background as well. I very rarely see it during a movie, and when I do it is very minor and not very distracting...you have to look for it.

I have had a problem with my Dwin.

In darker scenes, I was getting a weird purplish color that looked like "solarization" for lack of a better word. This would only show up on average 2 or 3 times per movie, but when it occurred it was distracting.

I took my pj to Thomas Marshall's to see if it did the same thing (to see if it was the scaler box, the projector, or possibly my cable). We hooked up the box first, and it didn't do it. Hooked up the pj, and sure enough, the same solarization effect in darker solid background scenes (it could also show up on faces).

My dealer was all over this. I had a return authorization number the same day that I called him to describe the problem!

Also, Dwin fixed the pj and sent it back the next business day! The problem was they sent the pj back to the dealer instead of directly to me as requested. They even remedied this issue by having the pj sent from my dealer to me via overnight delivery!

I got my pj back Friday. The problem has been fixed!

From what I understand, Roger at Dwin told my dealer that this problem was caused by the speed of the color wheel being off a bit. This could have been corrected over the telephone by going into the service menu.

Glad to have my Dwin back and to be enjoying movies again!

Twelly,

I watched Hulk today (including the end credits) to see if I saw even a hint of what you showed in your pictures. I do not agree that what you pictured is inherent in the Dwin. Neither I nor many others have seen what you show in your pictures. That is a big problem and would be extremely distracting to me. Why don't you e-mail those photos to Dwin and see if that doesn't get them interested. Surely, if they look at your pictures, they'll admit there is a problem with your pj and fix it asap.

Keep us posted.

Chad

P.S. My combo for Hulk was TV3, Bravo D1 via DVI and Stewart Studiotek 130.

Don,
I am projecting my tv3 to a 100-inch firehawk screen which is 15-feet away with minimum lens offset.

All,
Thanks so much for your comments, suggestions and for confirming that my observations are in fact abnormal behaviors. It's quite frustrating to deal with all these issues considering that I paid hard earned money for this unit since I thought it's worth every cent after being impressed so much with its PQ when I saw the demo in our local dealer. I just hope that when they send me my 2nd replacement I will no longer encounter any more problems and start enjoying watching movies.

-twelly

Twelly... I do not agree that what you pictured is inherent in the Dwin.

Did anybody state they thought what Twelly is experiencing is inherent in the Dwin???

:confused:

No Rob, but I do think you said it was inherent with DLP. I don't agree with that. I have not seen this ghost or glow effect on any DLP. Only in the photos referenced by Dwin owners who have the problem. Does anyone have the problem with "non-gain" screens? Seems many with the ghost issue are using firehawk or a white gain screen. It does bother me that so many on this forum are having the problem with Dwin.

Don-

The effect shown by Twelly in his photos are not even close in appearance to what others tried to post. He obviously has a serious problem based on those photos.

I can't say the same for the others who have posted pics regarding "ghosting" on white letters on a dark background. If that is a flaw in the Dwin, then I have it as well, and so do several others.

I also recall seeing this effect during the course of doing my demos of various projectors....all of which were DLP, although I can't recall exactly which projector it was. Just out of curiosity, I am going to try and see a Sharp 10k sometime this week to look for the same effect.

I find it highly unlikely that this would be a "screen" problem, especially on something like a Firehawk.

Don,

I have a 1.3 gain white screen and no observable ghosting. I have about 200 hours on my pj and looked very closely for it today using the same content Twelly found his on.

I'm, by no means, extremely technical, but could it be something as simple as some type of interference or cable issue? At the very least, it seems that would be something pretty easily eliminated. Just a thought.

Chad

P.S. Rob, no offense, but I took your post to mean the ghosting displayed by Twelly was inherent to DLPs and, thus, inherent to the Dwin. I was just trying to make the point that I saw nothing of the sort.

No Chad.

Read my post again.

The very first thing that I stated was The pics posted by Twelly show that something is clearly wrong with his projector.

I think the minor ghosting that I and others have seen may be inherent in DLP, but I could be wrong. That's why I want to see a Sharp later this week. What Twelly has posted certainly cannot be considered "normal" in any way.

As you may have read in my older posts that I had like 2-3 bright pixel problem on my first tv3. It had also a grayish blob which is very distracting when watching dark scenes. DWIN replaced my unit with a new one after I reported the said anomalies to my dealer last month. When I got my replacement unit the gray blob was gone but the bright pixels are still there, and 2 more anomalies which I mentioned in my earlier posts (ghosting & greenish radiant background). The odd thing is that the bright pixel count and position are the same as my first unit. At first I suspected that DWIN didn't replace my unit with a brand new one. Maybe they just fixed the blob problem and shipped back my original unit. I checked the serial no. of the pj and it's different from the first unit.

Anyway, I had a suspicion that maybe it's my firehawk screen that's causing the bright pixels. So tonight I made a couple of experiments. I asked my wife to stare at the bright pixels while I pan the pj to the left or right. Surprisingly, she said the bright pixels didn't move. To confirm that it's a screen problem I took a piece of white paper and covered the portion of the screen which has the bright pixels, and booom... the bright pixels disappeared. I can't believe my firehawk screen is causing this. Any of you with firehawk screen experienced similar observation? I looked closely at the firehawk screen material and I do see some springkled white stuff in it. Do you think these white particles causing some bright reflection which resembles like a bright pixel? See the pictures I captured with the bright pixels below.

brightpixel001 (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/brightpixel001.jpg)
brightpixel002 (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/brightpixel002.jpg)
brightpixel003 (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/brightpixel003.jpg)

I guess I'll try to ask my dealer if Stewart can replace my firehawk screen material. Am I having a bad luck or what. :(

-twelly

twelly-

Thanks for confirming a suspicion of mine. I'm on the cruise this week and have personal access to Don Stewart. I will try to get to him (difficult) and advise him of this thread.
You all realize that screens are specially designed to produce a non-linear reflection of the light hitting them which is how they get gain. In this process which is crteated by applying special coating techniques to a large flat surface it is quite possible that a flaw in the coating could create spots or defects that you Twelly, are seeing. Only Stewart, could determine if their process is flawed on your screen.

The other issue I am wondering about is if there is a problem with a screen design that permits this glow being observed. I have experimented with a number of surfaces and know for a fact that this effect can be created. I have done it with a beaded screen! But, it is in no way present on my matte white Dalite screen.

I have a particular interest in this issue because I have plans to upgrade my screen to a fancy schmancy one with motorized masks in the near future but I want to be absolutely certain that if I get one it doesn't come with these defects.

Also, Twelly- Please check 002 jpg as it doesn't load.

Ah, the ghosting again. I haven't posted about this for a while because frankly, I'm disgusted with Dwin.

I've seen this problem on every single TV3 I've ever looked at, and yet DWINs position is that it does not exist. Now, I'm sure it's not on all of them, but I've seen and heard of enough to know that is present on many of these units.

I'm sure it's optics, not electronics (the ghost maintains its orientation when you invert the image using the proj. setup controls) - and DWIN is just sweeping it under the rug. I find it extremely difficult to believe they've never seen it.

Toxarch - I'm with you - I have no desire to send my PJ across the country and back again only to have DWIN tell me that they cant see any ghosting. Maybe I'll have to take it out there my self and show them - an option I haven't ruled out yet.

In the meantime, consider me a very unhappy customer who will never purchase another DWIN product.

If you are really that unhappy with the Dwin, my experience has been that they will give you the option of giving you your money back (assuming the pj is still under warranty).

Don-

I hope you can actually get Don Stewart to address this issue. I would be very interested to see what he says.

About the Ghosting..

I paid attention to the credits at the end of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" last night and saw what everyone is talking about.

If you'll recall I got myself in a tizzie about 3 months ago when I had the ISF guy here calibrating my setup. He noticed and verbalized what I had seen before but didn't make much of. He (ISF guy) was disturbed by the blue lines on the test patterns, mostly the large checkerboard pattern. Not only was he bothered by their existence, but also by the fact that they are not proportional (the blue lines are on the bottom of some squares, sides of others and both on some). My eye isn't as sharp as his and he swore he could see blue edges on images in certain scenes.

Needless to say I haven't done anything about it. Roger had given me an RMA but I wasn't sure how important it was.

I think the blue lines are related to the ghosting we see. Really I think they are two manifestations of the same problem. Those of you seeing the ghosting check your test patterns, I bet you have the blue lines on them as well.

For lack of any better description it seems like an alignment problem..

Just got out of a seminar given by Don Stewart where I posed the ghost question. As expected, Don did not agree that the screen was an issue with the ghost issue but Twelly...
I did look at a Firehawk up close and saw the tiny pixel like particles in the coating that offered a brighter point of lightness. It seems that you may also have these particles on your screen. At that time I was in discussion with Mark Robinson of Stewart screens but he pretty much dismissed these as normal. I don't want to get in the middle of this issue because I think this is something individually you need to take up with Stweart screens for your particular situation.

I also talked at length with Mark about this ghost issue. He said he would review some of the threads here and see if he could recognize any common factors but did suggest we look at common HT room geometry, in particular the angle of the PJ lens to screen back to the viewer. These ghosts, he said, are quite common with particular rear Projection systems with particular mirror angles. He suggested these ghosts may
be caused by peculiar angles that has the text ghosts come from the main image being reflected right back onto the screen from the lens of the projector itself.
His remedy is to test by changing the projector angle and viewer angles off the screen.

Additionally, Don Stewart mentioned that the best image quality should be obtained with long lens throws and minimum screen angles to viewer eyes (minimum offset on the Dwin)

I also personally witnessed the whites from the house projector shifting from good white to a blue cast on the firehawk while it remained white on the studiotek sample. Considering what I saw, I would think everyone who has a Dwin with a Firehawk need to get an ISF D6500 calibration done. I mean the screen at on PJ angle was very blue with the firehawk in the white regions when side by side with a white paper and some retro reflective screen as well as angular reflective screen samples, which in my opinion offered the best whites vs. blacks for zero viewing angle.

kraig- I don't agree. I have the blue single pixel edge to the well defined Dwin test pattern edges. I do not have the ghosts as shown in other's well documented photos here.
One of the issues pointed out in today's discussions with the experts was the problem of using short lens throws. Don Stewart said he recommends 1.6 to 1 screen width minimum for firehawk. Others stated the importance to minimize chromatic aberation we have discussed here before.
The wider the lens angle you use the larger the artifacts of chromatic abberation and larger these defects will be on the screen.

Just got out of a seminar given by Don Stewart where I posed the ghost question. As expected, Don did not agree that the screen was an issue with the ghost issue

Didn't think so!

:)

I watched Hulk last night.

I noticed the exact same ghosting on the same scenes that Twelly posted pictures of earlier in this thread....to the same degree.

This is something that definitely does not occur very often....but was definitely noticeable during the one scene where Bruce Banner is in the chair near the end of the movie (somewhere around the 2 hour mark I think).

How many others are seeing this? Or are not seeing it?

I hooked up my Dish 6000 HD receiver over the weekend (moved it from the living room pending the PVR 921) and I couldn't get over how incredible the picture looked when displaying HD material. Sunday Night Football was mesmerizing!

I had the pleasure of seeing a TV3 this weekend, i thought the picture was really exciting and very detailed, the blacks were very expectable and the colors were excellent as for what i could see. we watched the movie In-laws and the transfer looked real good but some grain in certain scenes. after awhile i was getting the feeling that the picture was to sharp it started effecting me and was wanting to soften it a little but it wasn't mine to do so. has anyone gotten this effect?

Hello All,

Here are the first pics of my T3 set-up. I had my first football party this weekend for 35 guests and everyone was in awe. Another happy T3 customer. I will post some screenshots soon.

Thanks,
Matthew

pic #2

pic #3

Matthew,

Great looking setup, reserve a bar seat for me. What screen did you use?

Kraig,

I ended up going with a 110" Siverstar. The image is absolutely stunning. I will be posting screen shots soon.

Matthew

I have added some screenshots in the gallery

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php?ppuser=72029

Thanks,
Matthew

Nice job! I will take some pics of my newly completed setup. Not in the same league as you but I am quite proud.
FREAK!

i closely watched my dwin during the closing credits of 24 in HD (white words on black background) and saw no ghosting at all. mine was one of the very first, you may remember.

i also have a firehawk and will check for any bright specks on the screen. i can say that i'm not surprised that there may be anomolies--i think screens are a big scam to tell you the truth, i can't believe they cost what they cost considering the quality of what you really get ;) i bet you that stewart can "touch up" the bright spots for you in the field.

Add me to the list - I ordered my TV3 yesterday, after thinking about the Sim2 300link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2881083#post2881083) and briefly tossing around the idea of an HT1000 just because I couldn't make up my mind so why not buy something cheap :-)

Can someone please PM me the service code, and are there good threads with instructions for calibrating a DLP for various inputs - I have the various Avia etc. disks, but have never calibrated anything other than my tube TV.

Sky

i closely watched my dwin during the closing credits of 24 in HD (white words on black background) and saw no ghosting at all.

Xkode-

Have you seen The Hulk? I would really like to have more Dwin owners take a look at the specific scene referenced above (at the 1:59 mark where Bruce Banner is strapped in the chair) to see if they have the ghosting on this scene.

I have seen other movies with lettering on a dark background and the ghosting is very minimal if any at all. This is why I was suprised to see it so dramatically on the Hulk DVD.

I tried adjusting the lens offset tonight and I noticed that if I adjust to minimum offset the ghosting only shows up at the bottom half of the screen. If I increase the offset the ghosting at the very bottom is getting bigger and if I adjust to maximum offset the ghosting appears beyond the bottom half of the screen.

I took 2 snapshots, one with minimum offset and one with maximum offset. Pay attention to the mickey mouse logo. At minimum offset not much ghosting but with max offset ghosting starts to appear in the logo. Just ignore the red text. It's the projected image to my red painted wall after I changed the offset to max. This looks like an alignment problem in my lens. I shouldn't expect any ghosting at all regardless of lens offset.

Just to let you know that the mickey mouse logo is in the upper half area of the screen. At minimum offset not much ghosting in the logo but there is still ghosting at the bottom half. I just tried to demonstrate here that if I shift the image down (up to max offset) the ghosting starts to appear in the logo.

ghosting (min offset) (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/ghosting-minoffset.jpg)
ghosting (max offset) (http://www.twelly.com/tv3/ghosting-maxoffset.jpg)

-twelly

Originally posted by bhuskins
I just received my Silverstar (that I happened to win at CEDIA - cha-ching!) and I will post some A/B shots generated using the same TV3 in a couple of weeks. I'm also getting a new wide angle lens for my Canon 10D digital SLR camera, so I should be able to get some decent shots.

thanks,

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Brent,
Have you got a chance to do this yet? I'd like to hear your opinion between the Silverstar and the StudioTek.

Anyway, It's been a while since I went online since I'm too busy watching that beautiful TV3 picture, and this thread is already 59 pages? lots of great info though :). For those NFL fans, This Sunday game between the Cowboys & Buffalo will be broadcasted in HDTV by CBS. Thumps up to CBS :) :). How about them Cowboys!!!

Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
Xkode-

Have you seen The Hulk? I would really like to have more Dwin owners take a look at the specific scene referenced above (at the 1:59 mark where Bruce Banner is strapped in the chair) to see if they have the ghosting on this scene.

I have seen other movies with lettering on a dark background and the ghosting is very minimal if any at all. This is why I was suprised to see it so dramatically on the Hulk DVD.

Here are my screenshots of the Hulk scenes others have used for reference to demonstrate ghosting. My setup is ceiling mount, about 14.5 feet back, minimum offset with Studiotek 130 110" screen. (I threw in a couple Finding Nemo screenshots just because they look so awesome!). As you can see, no ghosting at all.

Chad


Hulk 1 (http://images.andale.com/f2/124/127/6433429/1068502016538_hulk_1.jpg)

Hulk 2 (http://images.andale.com/f2/124/127/6433429/1069428951057_hulk_2.jpg)

Hulk Credits (http://images.andale.com/f2/124/127/6433429/1067193050604_hulk_credits.jpg)

Nemo 1 (http://images.andale.com/f2/124/127/6433429/1070101217089_nemo_ray.jpg)

Nemo 2 (http://images.andale.com/f2/124/127/6433429/1068140636721_nemo_group.jpg)

cgauntt - how old is your TV3.

minimum offset with Studiotek 130 110" screen. (I threw in a couple Finding Nemo screenshots just because they look so awesome!). As you can see, no ghosting at all.

Based on this, as well as Twelly's observations, it appears that the lens offset is the main culprit here.

cgauntt- what happens if you move your lens offset to max?

I have tried moving my lens offset to minimum, the ghost remained. I do agree, however, that it is only on the bottom half of the screen.

My TV3 was purchased around early to mid-July.

I'll play with the lens shift this evening and report back whether it makes a difference.

FYI, I was using a Sammie HD-931 at 720p with a DVI cable (2 meter) from Better Cables. I am also using the 50' DVI cable from Dwin I have a Bravo D1 and will try it if anyone thinks this will make a difference. I don't think it will.

Btw, the mickey mouse logo I posted earlier is in the upper half of the screen. At minimum offset not much ghosting in the logo but there is still ghosting at the bottom half. I just tried to demonstrate that if I shift the image down (up to max offset) the ghosting starts to appear in the logo.

-twelly

I just got a response from Stewart today regarding this issue. They confirmed that this is caused by imperfection of the screen's optical composites. They gave me a workaround and I'm going to try it out tonight. I also received a different kind of workaround from my dealer which I will try if the first workaround doesn't work. See Stewart's email reply below:
> From: "Scott Kimber" <scottk@stewartfilm.com>
> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:03:21 -0800
> To: <twelly@ieee.org>
> Cc: "Kim Fitzgerald" <kim@stewartfilm.com>
> Subject: FW: Problem with my Firehawk screen
>
> Hello Wilson:
> Thanks for the e-mail about the 2 tiny white particles on your screen. We have
> referred to these as "stars". They are actually larger pieces of the screen's
> optical composites. Under projection take a pencil walk up to the screen and
> lightly touch these stars with the pencil. This will soften their appearance
> and solve the problem.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Scott Kimber
> Technical Support Manager
> Stewart Fillmscreen Corp.
> 1 (800) 762-4999 ext. 145
> (310) 891-3183 fax
> scottk@stewartfilm.com

-twelly

Would that be with the graphite end or the eraser end?

I don't even know what to assume...I guess you are trying to lighten it with the color of the graphite...but then again..maybe its erasable?

-sonny

What was your dealer's "work around" recommendation?

Sonny,
I'm assuming it's the graphite part of the pencil to darken the white particle.

Rob,
Actually, the workaround I got from my dealer also came from Stewart but its different from I got from Stewart directly. See the inline message below. You will notice the 2nd workaround is a bit dangerous as it may damange the screen.

> Also, Stewart suggests first trying to clean the screen in the bad area
> with a 7 to 1 solution of 7 parts water to 1 part Simple Green (All
> purpose cleaner). If that doesn't work, then try to use a razor blade
> and pick off the extra chips of spray that are causing the problem.
> Don't worry if you poke a hole or discolor the screen from wiping. They
> have already said they will replace it if those ideas don't work or if
> you damage the screen in the process. The hope is that after you clean
> and pick at the screen that it will look perfect. If not they will
> replace the material.

-twelly

ahh...

that sounds familiar ;)

Obviously - that would only apply to people that Stewart had specifically recommended that fix as a course of action. I would strongly suggest anybody that plans to get a razor out to get confirmation from Stewart that they will replace it if you mess it up. As is what I did for twelly.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Brent-

We're still waiting for your screen caps with the Dwin Silverstar combo and a full review!

ahh...

Dwin SilverStar combo.....

that sounds familiar ;)

Hi Folks-
Been awhile but I have been traveling quite a bit these last

4 weeks. Last week was the HT cruise where I met up with

someone from Dwin and had the opportunity to have dinner

with him several nights. Among several things we talked

about, was bulb life. He told me that since I have reached

the time of 1300 hours that most likely my bulb will last

several thousand hours before blowing. We talked about

viewing habits and he seemed to agree that the way I use the

projector with 6+ hours on per day with one on off cycle has

much to do with bulb longevity. There are other issues with

extended bulb live but these have to do with diminished

brightness. So far, I'm fine with the brightness level of

my TV3 with 1300+ hours.

Other things we talked about were screen choices. I had

the opportunity to see a Runco DLP and a Firehawk in a

light controlled room on the ship. This was better location

than last year's cruise. Off hour demos could be had with

the lights down as well as up. My own opinion was that

while the Firehawk helped marginally with room lights on, it

was not the jaw dropping demo as with a checkerboard pattern

when a movie was being played. Frankly, I'll keep my matte

white for a light controlled room at this point. This was

one time where a proper demo, not test patterns, tells me

that I'd be disappointed with a firehawk cost difference.
Next, the issues pointed out by both mvideo and twelly were

hot on my mind. Surprise! I saw a ghost on the Miramax

logo on the firehawk and the Runco! I also saw some white

specs of super pixel sized brightness. These were in the

upper left corner of the screen. Upon close examination, I

saw they were like foreign specs in the coating. I

mentioned this to a Stewart rep nearby but he seemed to

shrug it off as a typical issue with the coatings. Anyway,

I thought you'd appreciate it, twelly that I saw your bright

specs on a demo model of the firehawk on the cruise and also

saw the ghost flare up from the runco DLP which was coffee

table mount configuration.

Several people told me these ghosts are common with all

single lens projectors and coated screens with gain. Even

the Stewart rep said he sees them all the time, especially

with rear projected systems. It seems that the higher the

gain on a screen the hotter the ghost will be but in any

case it seems to be generated by angular issues between the

PJ, screen and viewer. Meaning that changing the geometry

of the installation could resolve the ghost image. I

believe some of you have already experimented with this but

just wanted to let you all know many people in the business

are aware of the problem and no one offered a singular

solution but rather a combination of corrective actions. I

will still tell you that I do not get the ghost on a matte

white Dalite screen at near minimum lens offset.

I also got some info on the single pixel "convergence"

artifact we all have seen with apparently all DLP's. A

suggested solution to this very minor flaw to perfection is

suggested by a lens manufacturer that the entire optics path

needs to be aligned at full running temperature. While this

makes sense it is also rather impractical to do so

considering we can't even see this issue unless you are in

the habit of watching test patterns at 1 ft screen distance,

I'd say it's a non-issue.

saw the ghost flare up from the runco DLP which was coffee

table mount configuration.

Several people told me these ghosts are common with all

single lens projectors and coated screens with gain. Even

the Stewart rep said he sees them all the time, especially

with rear projected systems. It seems that the higher the

gain on a screen the hotter the ghost will be but in any

case it seems to be generated by angular issues between the

PJ, screen and viewer.

See!

I knew that I had seen these "ghosting" effects on other DLP projectors during the course of demoing various pjs!

Thanks Don.

Thanks for sharing Don!

Brent,
Lets see those pics!

Anyone seen the ultimate DWIN demo disk Finding Nemo?
WOW

What I want to see is the Ghost on a matte white screen. I was tempted to put a white card up on that Runco + Firehawk but too many people around and the logo I saw the ghost was only on a short time.

Perhaps another plus for the Firehawk, haven't really noticed the ghosting problem, but I tend not to look for these type of things.

At any rate, I'm still mesmerized by my TV3, every time I watch a movie I pat myself on the back for my decision to buy this PJ :)


Fred,

You bet, what a knock out movie, excellent viewing for the whole family.

Originally posted by Fred DeGrandis

Anyone seen the ultimate DWIN demo disk Finding Nemo?
WOW

Fred,
Just saw this with my 4 year old - HOLY MOLY! You are right - this is an amazing demo disc. I realize that animated movies are intrinsically better and make digital pjs look their best, but this surpassed all my expectations. AND I'm using an el cheapo Sony NS300 non progressive scan DVD player via component out! Can't wait to upgrade to a DVI player.

Fred
I too saw "Finding Nemo" on my TV3. Absolutely fantastic. Colors just jump out at you. A great keeper movie.

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but here goes.
My 4 week old T3 failed last night and I think it might be the bulb. The dealer is going to order one on the assumption that this is the correct diagnosis but of course it will take a while to arrive. So here's my questions:

Does anyone know what the off resistance of the bulb is? Is there anyway to know if the bulb is bad other than simply replacing it?

Here's the symptoms - the projector turns on normally and the power led turns on solid. The fans start to make noise and shortly there after the whir of the color wheel starts. A few seconds later the power LED starts flashing rapidly and then the projector powers off and goes to the normal standby mode. The projector lamp does not come on at all during this process. When I looked at the bulb there is no indication of any kind of problem, no burning or discoloration. It measures 1.5Meg ohm across the 2 terminals. Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Has anyone upgraded to the HD2+ chip?
Wondering if it is worth it.

Thanks,
bstrong

Okaboji, I would assume that if you can read a resistance across the bulb (with the power leads disconnected of course) then the bulb has not burned out. 4 weeks should fall within the DWIN bulb warranty. Keep us informed of what you find.

bstrong,

Here is some preliminary information for what it's worth:

I spoke with two Dwin reps at the Long Beach Expo last week and they indicated the upgrade would be beneficial for people who sit very close to a large screen, as the mirrors on the new chip are closer together and reduce the size of the screen door. He also said the PQ would not be improved over the current chip. After I told him I sat 17 feet back from my screen he told me that it would be a waste of my money to upgrade.

Also, I saw the new S3, and as far as I'm concerned it didn't look any better that the S2. Granted the demo was subject to ambient light and not ideal conditions.

FYI - I have asked someone from Marantz to bring a new S3 to my HT for a comparison with my TV3. I have had no reply to my PM from them so far. We shall see if they are up for the challenge :)

Hi; Is there an opinion on what dvd player(with dvi) is the best match for the tv3 yet.
Thanks

Lots and lots of opinions (see the many threads):)

FWIW

I have the D1 and 931 and prefer the 931 due to reliability issues with the D1. Some love the D1 and have no issues with reliability.

IMO both throw a know out picture and are priced very well.

The 5900 is being evaluated and appears to be very nice, however the price is very high. Others are right around the corner.

Myself, IMO the jury is still out, so I'm holding out for a high end DVD that will "do it all". Until then I'm sticking with my 931 and D1.

Also, the D2 is due out as well, perhaps Bravo has solved the freezing up issue, if so, that would be a good choice in the low end price range.

I was one those people that had problems with my D1. However, since I installed the new firmware , I haven't had any issues. Specifically, I'm referring to the two CD set (Servo Code and MPEG4 Code) that you can get if you call V. You can't download it from the website -- at least you couldn't when I got mine.

The picture from the D1 is pretty impressive. Now, if only Comcast would enable their DVI port as well.

Woo hoo, my TV3 showed up today! Heading home to start the installation, and hopefully get far enough to at least watch a DVD tonight. Will provide an update once it's all up and running.

Thomas-
Thanks for the feedback on the HD2+.

I'm sure you've seen the results of our shootout where the TV3 was up against the new Marantz S3. Have to say that the Marantz was a slight step above the Dwin in brightness and clarity but did not handle motion as well (IMO). If you haven't seen the results yet you can find them here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=326419

The projector is mounted (ceiling), hooked up one input (my old Sony DVD player on Component), set zoom and offset and focus to approximately ok, figured out how to turn the image rightside up, and watched a Sopranos episode, everything on factory default settings. Looked great!

Very noticable crescent on my dark grey ceiling. Lots of work left to do to get all the sources hooked up and moved into the new rack and get everything calibrated. No noticable problems when watching - blacks looked good, no motion artifacts, colors seemed reasonable, etc. Light output was totally fine on my 137" screen (still not sure what the gain is, was originally set up for a CRT so could be high gain, but no visible hot spotting). I'm sure I'll be appalled at how far off things the settings were once I get it properly calibrated...

bstrong,

Your welcome and thanks for pointing me to the thread. I missed it because I don't spend as much time on the forum these days.

Actually, now that I've made my major purchases for the next couple of years I prefer to enjoy my HT in blissful ignorance :)

Long live the TV3:)

Activated the DVI on the Denon 5900 and plugged it into the dwin tv3 today. Did not get too much time to view but noticed a sharper image and one that was quite a bit softer than component.

Needs a serious calibration but that's my initial feedback on the combo.

Originally posted by Okaboji
Not sure if this is the right place to post this but here goes.
My 4 week old T3 failed last night and I think it might be the bulb. The dealer is going to order one on the assumption that this is the correct diagnosis but of course it will take a while to arrive. So here's my questions:

Does anyone know what the off resistance of the bulb is? Is there anyway to know if the bulb is bad other than simply replacing it?

Here's the symptoms - the projector turns on normally and the power led turns on solid. The fans start to make noise and shortly there after the whir of the color wheel starts. A few seconds later the power LED starts flashing rapidly and then the projector powers off and goes to the normal standby mode. The projector lamp does not come on at all during this process. When I looked at the bulb there is no indication of any kind of problem, no burning or discoloration. It measures 1.5Meg ohm across the 2 terminals. Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated.


Sorry for the delay in answering but I've been busy, very busy with work.

The bulb is not of the filament type where you could measure resistance as it is actually an electrode type where a continuous spark is what lights up. Therefore it would appear as an open circuit to an ohm meter. I would assume that the resistance you measured was with the bulb connected. which would naturally be the resistance of the bulb (normally open) and the circuit it is connected to in parallel. Sorry, but I don't know what the resistance of the power supply is, nor do I know what it's bulb voltage should be but during power up it should normally indicate some level of voltage at the bulb connections. WARNING! I would not attempt to measure that unless you are familiar with electronics and somewhat familiar with the power supply design in the Dwin. I can't help you with that info as I DON'T KNOW either. I actually measured the spare bulb resistance here to be sure but a gentleman from Dwin told me it was an arc type bulb.

Sounds to me like you need or dealer needs to contact Dwin! I would rerquest some voltage information on certain check points if you or dealer plans to do some troubleshooting in the field as a bulb part costs $450. Having said that I personally believe in having a spare bulb around anyway. Even though I have over 1400 hours on my original bulb, it is comforting to know that when this one goes, I have a spare ready to go!

Anybody see that Sixth Ave. picked up the Dwin TV3 in this weeks circular??

Good for Dwin...I'm not sure if Sixth Ave is national but its one of the better ones here in the nyc/nj area....

-sonny

Has anyone ever gotten resolution from Dwin regarding the shadows? I watched a foreign film with subtitles at the bottom of the screen yesterday and found myself annoyed the whole time.

kraig,

I just shipped mine back to DWIN for replacement. I'll soon find out once my new unit arrives this week.

-twelly

Twelly - what did Dwin tell you when they gave you the RMA. Are they acknowleding the problem specifically and representing that they know how to fix it or what causes it?

MVideo,

I usually report all tv3 issues (with pictures) to my dealer. Typically, few days later after submission I get an email from my dealer with an RMA# and instruction on how to ship the unit. I usually don't get any additional info from DWIN thru my dealer regarding the problem. This is now my 2nd replacement. I told my dealer that if I still having problems with my 2nd replacement then I might consider buying a different projector (maybe Marantz) and return my tv3 for refund. I no longer care if I have to shell out 2-3K more as long as I get a quality product. Can you imagine the cost of shipping back the unit many times.

-twelly

I feel your pain Twelly.. I was hoping a dealer or one of use nobody end users might have gotten something concrete from Dwin, some explataion of what is or might be the problem. I guess communication and being forthright is not the way Dwin does business. So far Twelly's experience is about the only thing I've seen from Dwin (Send it back, her is your RMA #).

I guess any admission of there being an issue represents opening the floodgates for the rest of us. I just don't see Dwin being a player though with these tactics. Sony can get away with it, Dwin can't.

Like just about everything in life, it's all about communication...

Kraig-

I am confused. What exactly is it that you think Dwin is "getting away with"???

Twelly has had some bad luck, but it sounds to me like Dwin is doing the right thing....he is on his second replacement (Dwin didn't just try to fix it and send him the same pj back).

I had a problem as well, posted earlier in this thread. Dwin fixed the problem the same day that they received the projector and had it mailed back the next day (although they screwed up and sent it to my dealer instead of directly to me as directed....they even remedied this by paying for overnight shipping from my dealer to my house, which I guarantee you was not cheap)!

Originally posted by sbaillar
Anybody see that Sixth Ave. picked up the Dwin TV3 in this weeks circular??

Good for Dwin...I'm not sure if Sixth Ave is national but its one of the better ones here in the nyc/nj area....

-sonny

Can you PM me the amount they are advertising the TV3 for? I cant find any info on their site.

Maybe I need to NY for Thanksgiving after all. ;)

Thanks,

E. J.

Wow... I am starting to wonder if I am just not perceptive or I am very lucky. I haven't noticed ANY of the issues that have been brought up as complaints. I received my Dwin in early April, so I think I have one of the earliest owners.

Is it possible that once they ramped up production things got a little more lax...?

xkode, I got my projector right after you and I have problems. I even noticed the ghost in the Finding Nemo credits which has a blue background.

that's really strange.

it sounds like an optical issue, but on the off chance it's something else:

Are you using component or DVI? What kind of DVD player are you using? What resolution are you sending to the PJ?

I use an HTPC which always sends 1280X720 to the PJ via the DVI port and have seen plenty of white-on-black credits for shows like CSI, Alias, 24, etc... and of course during movies too. I paused them, walked right up to my screen (Firehawk) and examined the image and saw nothing.

It also might be related to a certain throw distance...?

I don't know... I assume I should be sending my PJ back to them for a replacement (who knows, maybe they'll ship me an HD2+ chip replacement :)) but I can't see anything that Dwin considers wrong.

(There is light spill from the lens and case, but unless somebody tells me Dwin has a fix for it, I see no reason to uninstall my PJ.)

DVI, Bravo D1, 720p, StudioTek 130, Total light control, still get ghosts and blue edges.

My dealer said I've had it too long to get a replacement.

Actually Tox,

You can send your unit to DWIN any time that you like. I just can't promise a replacement because you've had it for 6 months. I will definitely go to bat for you and attempt to get the resolution you are looking to get. I just can't make that blanket promise like I could on a brand new install with just a few hours on the bulb. This would be the same with any other manufacturer. No company is going to replace 6 month old gear without seeing it first. If the issue bothers you, I would say lets get it dealt with sooner vs. later. Also, they may have issue with any mods performed on your unit as well, but only if they were permanent. I don't think any of yours were.

let me know,

Brent Huskins
Media Design

It wasn't a shot at you Brent, I only mentioned it because xkode mentioned getting a replacement.

Though, I would love a replacement for mine. I don't think I should have to send it in for repair. I think I should have a perfect unit to start off with and I want them to admit the problems with the TV3. After all, this projector isn't cheap, and it shouldn't work like it was cheap. I had an RMA# right after I got the projector. They wanted me to pay to send back the projector to fix the crescent light spill problem that they claimed none of their projectors had. Well, we can read back in this thread and see they were really wrong since they all have it, some more than others. After DWIN admits a problem with their lenses (and whatever else) and comes up with a fix, then I will send it in for repair. Until then, I won't waste my money just for them to send it back with the same problem or say there is nothing wrong with it. If they want to pay to have it sent in and give me a temporary unit while it's in the shop to check it out, then that would be great. Since I don't foresee them doing that, then I will keep this lemon projector for now. Though I get upset everytime I see the ghosts.

And my mods are a filter held by tape (inside and outside) and a cut screen cap mod.

Originally posted by Don Landis
Sorry for the delay in answering but I've been busy, very busy with work.

The bulb is not of the filament type where you could measure resistance as it is actually an electrode type where a continuous spark is what lights up. Therefore it would appear as an open circuit to an ohm meter. I would assume that the resistance you measured was with the bulb connected. which would naturally be the resistance of the bulb (normally open) and the circuit it is connected to in parallel. Sorry, but I don't know what the resistance of the power supply is, nor do I know what it's bulb voltage should be but during power up it should normally indicate some level of voltage at the bulb connections. WARNING! I would not attempt to measure that unless you are familiar with electronics and somewhat familiar with the power supply design in the Dwin. I can't help you with that info as I DON'T KNOW either. I actually measured the spare bulb resistance here to be sure but a gentleman from Dwin told me it was an arc type bulb.

Sounds to me like you need or dealer needs to contact Dwin! I would request some voltage information on certain check points if you or dealer plans to do some troubleshooting in the field as a bulb part costs $450. Having said that I personally believe in having a spare bulb around anyway. Even though I have over 1400 hours on my original bulb, it is comforting to know that when this one goes, I have a spare ready to go!


Thanks for the note Don. I've been traveling and have not had time to check the forum until today. I did do some research on Metal Halide bulbs and came to the same conclusion you did. You can't measure goodness with an ohm meter on one of these puppy's. The sticker on the bulb cage says "caution 25KV present during startup". I don't intend to do anything else at this point since the unit is under warranty. The dealer has a new bulb on order ( approx. 2 weeks now) so that will be the acid test. I thought about having a spare bulb but as expensive as they are it seems a little risky that you may purchase a defective bulb and not know it for a year or more. I would be interested to know if any other T3 owners have had defective bulbs.

BTW: I checked the bulb replacement procedures for Sharp and Marantz and found that they have much easier bulb replacement designs. You simply open an external door and pop the new bulb in. Something I hadn't thought about when shopping for a projector.

Mike

Speaking of bulbs, I have a question regardng when is a good time to have a replacement handy. I don't want to have one too early, but I don't want to be stuck without a bulb either. How are your experiences with bulb life doing?

I currently only have about 300 hours on my bulb. Is there a magic number that if I get past, I can be reasonably assured of close to 2000 hours? Given my current rate of use, it could take 18-24 months for me to get to 2000 hours. At $425 a pop, I'd rather not have a bulb sitting on the shelf for a year or more.

I'm with xkode, my TV3 doesn't have any of these most recent issues being discussed. Maybe I should get my eyes checked :)

I hope you guys with the problems get them worked out.

I have 1500 hours on my bulb. Based on a discussion with Dwin rep, I will probably get close to 3-4 thousand hours with a gradual decline in the brightness. Seems that what he said and the survey I did last Winter was that bulbs on DLP's fail after 100 to 200 hours a few after 600-1000 hours and then last and last forever it seems.

I believe that bulbs last as your viewing habits. Typically, I turn on my TV3 once per day and it stays on from about 6PM to 2-3 AM. If someone wants to watch during the day, the CRT is used.

I believe in having a spare bulb and decided to budget that in with my purchase even though the dealer disagreed with me. I will be happy to get the bulb to last a year under my present usage rate.
PS- I paid $450 which is MSRP I believe.


Regarding the Ghosts issue, this is all I will say on the forum. If you restrict your blame on one ingredient in the total HT environment, you probably will never fix the problem. eg. if your car isn't running right and you tell the mechanic to fix the engine, it won't solve your problem if the transmission is the cause of the problem. Same with Ghosts. The projector is only a part of the system and may not be what is causing your ghosts to appear on your screen.

I've tried all the fixes mentioned. The only other unmentioned fix I can think of is to remove the theater and build an exact copy of the DWIN lab, because they can never see any problems in there. When you eliminate all the possibilities, and all that is left is the projector, then I think it's safe to assume that the problem is the projector until it is proven that the projector is not the problem.

The DWIN techs are welcome to call me to make an appointment to visit my theater and see the problems for themselves since they have never seen the problems in their lab.

I need to get my eyes checked also. I think my Dwin keeps getting better. I've got about 1250 hours on my bulb and have a spare bulb on hand. I think maybe it was a little too bright when the bulb was new. The 3D effect is getting better. I've never seen any ghosts. I watch mostly HD now. DVDs just don't seem to do it for me any more except for the very best transfers. I still buy a few but am usually disappointed. Just bought Once Upon a Time in The West which is one of my favorite movies. Everyone in the DVD forum seemed to love the transfer but I though the EE ruined the otherwise very good transfer.

I have had my TV3 since mid-June. I thought I'd report that I have no ghosting either. I have looked for it a number of times. I hope everyone resolves their own problem. I can understand the frustration that a few are going through. I think the performance of the Dwin as of this date has been excellent and I would highly recommend it to anyone.

IMO, I have reached a good threshhold on PQ. current DVD's are not nearly the HDTV quality but then neither is film conversions as compared to pure HDTV video. However. with the TV3 I find all of these formats very enjoyable as compared to my CRT image which is less sharp and quite a bit dimmer. with a properly adjusted TV3 I actually achieve better blacks on my matte white screen than my CRT too but this is just on good HDTV, not on all programming. Also, I sit 1.5 screen widths from my screen which helps blend the fuzziness on the DVD's when comparing with HDTV video.

One of you with bad eyes want to trade projectors? Apparently my eyes are too good. I have below 250 hours on the bulb.

Tox - I'm with you 100% I've been waiting for three months for Dwin to stand up and recognize the problem before I send it in so that I can be sure that they'll actually do something about it.

I really cannot believe that no technician at DWIN has ever seen this - but that's the company line. I can imagine the memo that insured that.

During one particular e-mail exchange, one of the DWIN guys sent me an e-mail intended for his colleague. I wont post it, because I don't think that would be right, but lets just say it suggests strongly that they're aware of the problem and are organized in their decision not to address it.

During one particular e-mail exchange, one of the DWIN guys sent me an e-mail intended for his colleague. I wont post it, because I don't think that would be right, but lets just say it suggests strongly that they're aware of the problem and are organized in their decision not to address it.

Implying what you are about the Dwin email is much worse than posting the actual email. We are now left to wonder if your interpretation is correct and whether you are either misquoting them or misinterpreting them.

It seems somewhat disengenous to me to state that you wont post the email, then proceed to interpret it as negatively as you do.

Just my opinion.

Rob- When one is trusted with a behind the scenes private communique, breaking that trust for a short moment of glory in such a small place as this forum by posting would display a serious lack of character in the individual.

What's the big deal whether you get to read his private e-mail on a public forum or hear how he interpreted it? What's important is the message result and his reaction to it even if you would feel it is wrong.

I have had conversations with Dwin in an unofficial capacity where what was stated here is in line with my discussions. That is, a decision was made not to address certain issues at this time. It does in NO WAY mean that Dwin feels they are at fault for the issue(s) in question. What it means is simply that until they decide what can be done about these complaints is still undecided. In my own research of the following issues: Color temperature calibration, colored pixel disalignment aka convergence?, Ghosts, lens spillage, and Dust filters, it is my understanding that there is a combination of Dwin and shared blame for the cause and remedy for each. Some of you disagree and want to simplify the entire blame on Dwin 100% even at the technical/academic level. I doubt anyone has attained the necessary evidence to support this. Based on all my research and interviews with experts in HT design, and screen design, it is just not that simple! I understand and respect Dwin's decision to defer their comments on the remedies until such time as a true solution can be done with the cooperation of others in the areas of joint responsibility. In this case others may involve but not limited to screen makers and lens makers.

If the problems at hand are so annoying then one needs to go the extra effort to resolve it with the dealer. Ultimately, Dwin works through dealers as I doubt anyone here bought their TV3 direct from Dwin. When you bypass your dealer, either you are wrong or your dealer is no good if he dumped you off to deal with Dwin direct. MY guess is your dealer doesn't really appreciate you bypassing him by going direct.

IN my case all my discussions with Dwin have been academic in nature and all discussions concerning my personal TV3 defect, there has been only one, was never discussed with Dwin but with my dealer only and was resolved with my dealer's effort with Dwin. I believe this is how it should be.

If you recall, Dwin discovered the HDCP problem but needed to wait until they had resolution from the chip maker before they announced their action. There was much speculation and blame being cast unfairly at Dwin back then and I see the same thing again.


MVIDEO- I had your number when I was in NY 10 days ago but my last minute schedule changes were so tight, it was not possible to even call you for a short 5 minute visit. I left Croton at 8PM Saturday and needed to be in High Point, NC Sunday at Noon! Sorry, maybe the next time which at this point won't be until next Spring.

Rob- When one is trusted with a behind the scenes private communique, breaking that trust for a short moment of glory in such a small place as this forum by posting would display a serious lack of character in the individual.

What's the big deal whether you get to read his private e-mail on a public forum or hear how he interpreted it? What's important is the message result and his reaction to it even if you would feel it is wrong.

I could not possibly disagree with you more on this point Don.

You simply must be kidding, as your statement otherwise makes absolutely no sense at all. In fact, it is ludicrous.

You talk about being "trusted with a behind the scenes private communique, breaking that trust for a short moment of glory in such a small place as this forum by posting would display a serious lack of character in the individual".....then you condradict this statement by saying that it is ok for him to "interpret it"!?!?! Please explain how that is better than copying the exact message!? That would leave no room for misinterpretation, but give us the exact words used. This would be infinitely more reliable and we would not be left wondering about the negative "interpretation" that has been given to it.

And as far as displaying the email message showing "a complete lack of character in the individual", again, please explain the difference in interpreting the email vs. posting it. If the email is going to be discussed on this forum, doesn't that show just as much of a "complete lack of character" as posting it (according to your definition anyway)?

In other words, why bring up the email at all if it isn't going to be posted? That is much more unfair than posting the actual email in my opinion.

I do agree with most of your other comments regarding some of the reported problems with the Dwin and how they should be handled.

"Please explain how that is better than copying the exact message!? That would leave no room for misinterpretation, but give us the exact words used. This would be infinitely more reliable and we would not be left wondering about the negative "interpretation" that has been given to it."

Rob, when you promise not to quote someone but are given the information without agreeing to any non-disclosure, it is OK to explain what you now know. However, if you accept that communique but then quote that person by publishing the exact e-mail you have breached that trust. Broken a trusted promise. Once you do that, or don't agree that keeping a trust is a form of good character, then you are one who can not be trusted and will simply be "black listed" from the inner circles of those who do trust each other. Why do I need to explain this? I'm glad you so strongly disagreed as it shows me I can not be so trusting of others blindly, on this forum. I have in the past but maybe I need to re-consider my own offering of information on this forum and in private. I do thank you, Rob, for giving me an eye opener! I probably needed it.
I think maybe I should just enjoy my TV3 and let others deal with their problems the best way they can. Although this position does go against my philosophy of "putting something back" for all that I have learned from others in this forum. But, it's not worth the risk of someone who may break a promised confidence! Receiving information here is free and you don't have to use it, but sometimes, giving it can cost you.

Rob - the e-mail was not intendid for me and simply cannot post it - but anything that I may have learned from it is mine to disseminate - and therefore I have.

You can interpret this any way you please, and if you wish to discredit my statements citing the lack of the actual e-mail, you're certainly free to do so.

Do keep in mind that my intentions were not to malign Dwin, but simply to provide other TV3 owners with as much useful information as possible - the charter of this thread.

Don - no problem -- maybe next time. By the way, if you are ever in the need for a fixed wing aerial in NY -- look me up.

Rob - the e-mail was not intendid for me and simply cannot post it - but anything that I may have learned from it is mine to disseminate - and therefore I have.

I am sure that I am not the only one to see the absolute contradiction in that statement!

The email was not intended for you. So on the one hand you "can't post it" but on the other hand "anything that you learned from it is free for you to disseminate". Surely you see the contradiction here, don't you?

Again, how is it in any way better to give an interpretation to an email that you received (that wasn't intended for you in the first place) than it is to post the actual email? Especially when the interpretation that you are giving the email is extremely negative...pretty much implying some type of "cover up" by Dwin!?

Also, is there some law that I am not aware of that says you can't post an actual email message sent from someone else, but you ARE free to say you received it, who it was from, and then proceed to interpret it on a public forum??

Whether your intentions were to malign Dwin or not, that is certainly the result of your post. Once you took it upon yourself to tell us all about this email message, and the negative interpretation that you are giving it, I think you owe it not only to us, but to Dwin, to post the actual email. I'm sure Dwin would much prefer that you don't post the email (especially since it wasn't intended for you) but since you have raised the issue as you have, you might say that hindsight is 20/20.


Rob, when you promise not to quote someone but are given the information without agreeing to any non-disclosure, it is OK to explain what you now know. However, if you accept that communique but then quote that person by publishing the exact e-mail you have breached that trust. Broken a trusted promise.

Don, there was never any such communication here. The email wasn't even intended for Mvideo! Thus, this statement isn't applicable.

That being said, if you agree not to quote somebody, then you shouldn't proceed to "interpret" what they said in your own words simply for the sake of not "quoting" them. It would be better to phrase it in terms of "my source says...." without stating who your source is!

We certainly agree that it would be wrong to "break a promised confidence", but you are not applying that philosophy correctly here.

As a total outsider (but I am considering a TV3), it seems to me like someone at Dwin hit reply to all instead of just reply. Happens all the time in this fast poaced business world. In fact, a supplier screwed me a few weeks back by doing exactly that to a potential client.

No matter how it happens, once it leaves the sending server, it is in the public domain. So many people fail to realize this. Email is in no way protected by any copywright laws or other personal protection laws that I know of - no matter how well the disclaimer at the bottom of each email is written.

Seems to me like its up to the receiver to do as he pleases with that email or the information contained within.

Just my $.02.

E. J.

Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
Also, is there some law that I am not aware of that says you can't post an actual email message sent from someone else, but you ARE free to say you received it, who it was from, and then proceed to interpret it on a public forum?? [/B]

I'm not refraining from posting it because of any law. There's no law that says I cannot post it to whomever I please. I choose not to because I would rather not see the individuals job come into jeopardy. Hopefully you can understand that, and that will put an end to the discussion of posting the e-mail.

In the interest of fairness, however, I will e-mail the individual and give him/her the opportunity to post it here themselves, in his defense - and Dwins.

Again, the post was intended to provide beneficial information to current and prospective owners - and I believe I've accomplished that.

If I've upset Dwin or some Dealers, well, then that's the cost of having customers.

Originally posted by Don Landis
If you recall, Dwin discovered the HDCP problem but needed to wait until they had resolution from the chip maker before they announced their action. There was much speculation and blame being cast unfairly at Dwin back then and I see the same thing again.

They did wait for a resolution before announcing their action, but they also admitted the problem early on and then fixed the problem. In this case, I want them to admit the problem so that I can expect a resolution from them. I think their customer support and their techs are a joke. There is no way that none of them can see these problems in the lab.

Today, I would NOT buy this projector with these problems. If that upsets DWIN that I typed that on a public forum, then they can come replace my lemon projector and it won't happen again.

Originally posted by Toxarch
Today, I would NOT buy this projector with these problems. If that upsets DWIN that I typed that on a public forum, then they can come replace my lemon projector and it won't happen again.

Tox, all you have to do is be willing to send the TV3 to DWIN - which you haven't done. The idea to keep calling it a lemon but not trying to do something about it, if it really bothers you, seems silly. So it cost you $40 bucks to ship it - BIG DEAL - I'll pick it up and pay your shipping if it's that big of a deal to you. I have had ZERO customers that have taken the time to address a problem by sending in their unit not be satisfied with the final results. Twelly is on his 3rd unit, but DWIN has vowed to make it right. They even overnighted a new unit back so he would get it for the Thanksgiving weekend. DWIN continues to show competency and great support for my customers (especially when they make a mistake - which we all do on occasion.) YOU HAVE TO USE YOUR DEALER TO GET THIS KIND OF SUPPORT THOUGH. Don was exactly right when he explained how important it is to get your dealer involved with issues. I don't think Twelly has ever spoken to DWIN even though he is on his third unit.

Tox, let me know when you want me to pick it up.

Also, DWIN has not denied what Twelly photographed so well. They can duplicate those results. They are also aware of some of my setups that don't show any of the ghosting issues. I think the problem has yet to be specified by DWIN as to what is actually causing the problem (or what combination of things causes the problem.) That is likely why some end users call in and get "denial' from DWIN, because they can't quite explain why just yet.

MVIDEO & Don - you guys are way off base. If you received the message and don't want to post it or anonymously quote from it then you shouldn't have brought it up. Rob couldn't have explained it any better and I can't understand why you would feel the way you do. Your interpretation has done nothing but muddy the situation further. That is not what this board is about. As Don put it, people should give back and this would be a good opportunity for you to do so. I know that I'll be investigating on Monday to get to the bottom of this if there is some sort of cover-up as MVIDEO eludes but can't/won't back up. It sure would be easier to address with them if I had some type of evidence. Being that I'm the largest DWIN dealer in the nation they tend to listen and take care of my clients.

Brent Huskins
President/Owner
Media Design
Fort Worth, TX

Originally posted by MVideo
Again, the post was intended to provide beneficial information to current and prospective owners - and I believe I've accomplished that.

BENEFICIAL????

WHAT AM I MISSING????

Brent Huskins
Media Design

As a fellow Dwin owner, I must testify to their willingness to help and customer support.

I have one of their CRT units and began experiencing erratic behavior, which could not be resolved without sending the unit in. To make matters worse; it took more than one shipment back to them to finally fix the problem.

If you think shipping your TV3 back sucks, try shipping a CRT to California a few times.

In the end, the problem was resolved and they made certain I was happy.

I have been lurking here considering moving to the digital realm. I called them to discuss possibly buying a new machine and they counseled me to wait. Not because the TV3 wasn't great, but because I had them retube my CRT when it was down for repairs. Their attitude was to use up my recent investment in tubes and then come see them for another great product.

They are in business to make money AND happy customers.

My advice: send back your unit, get it fixed, and enjoy your investment. In a month you will have forgotten about the pain and loving your home theater.

Good luck.

Brian

Another dealer chimes in.

Alright Brent. Put your money where your mouth is. Give me the name of ONE tech at Dwin that I can talk to who will acknowledge this issue and help me fix it. When that happens, I will make a public retraction and apology right here. Until that, my comments stand.

I've sent an e-mail to the technician at Dwin refering him to this thread. If he thinks my interpretation of his e-mail is unfair, he can come and defend it.

Brent, you were a huge help when I bought the DWIN and I wouldn't hesitate to buy from you again. But I don't see the need to bother you when I can tell DWIN the problem myself. Sure, some may want to go through the dealer, but I haven't chose to do so. I bought a DWIN projector, not a HUSKINS projector, so I will try to deal with their customer support for now. But I may take you up on the offer of dealer support soon.

The point is not the cost of sending it back once to get fixed. The point is that they won't acknowledge the problem to devise a solution for it. Why pay to send it in if I am just going to have it returned with a note saying that there is no problem, and then have to send it in again later? If they want to just send me a replacement, great, I would love that. If they want me to send it in, then fine, they can send me a temporary replacement. I paid for a projector and shouldn't have to be burdened with not having one because I had to send it in for repair.