Since most of the other threads with Dwin TV3 info are mostly about shootouts with other projectors, I thought I would start a special thread for owners of the TV3 where the subject matter could be dedicated to how the owners and dealers of the TV3 are installing it, doing various tweaks, and adjustments, etc. In this way, I would hope we can collect positive, beneficial and constructive information to assist new owners of the TV3 in achieving the best performance from this projector. I would like to request that those who feel they have a duty to post derogatory, defamatory, and "my projector is better than your projector" posts that you would have the courtesy and integrity to start your own thread.

With TV-3 installed and cables run.

Took some digital pictures tonight of some key scenes. The detail in the entire movie was about the best I have seen on any DVD. This is one that rivals HDTV in 720P.

http://www.scubatech.com/TV3/DataTV3.jpg

Good idea Don!

I will post some stuff later(I am off to work now:(.

I just picked up Nemesis, and if it lives up to your reviews, it should be a real treat.

Fred

Very clean installation.
What a difference it makes not having to have 10 cables going to the projector:)

Thanks, Alan.

I found some wire molding that just slips over the DVI cable at Home Depot. Right angle bends are a problem as I don't want to risk the sharp bending that this molding requires so I left it exposed. I would hate to see the size of the conduit required for the CRT with 4- 1" dia RGBHV cables!

I need to finish the putty and paint yet so please excuse the mess in the PIC!

My TV3 is better than your TV3.

Don, remind us what DVD player you are using.

Panasonic RP56 connected with component cables. And, Yes, I may be interested in getting a DVI DVD player but wanted to wait a bit for more reports to come back on the few that are out now. I really want to see DVI in action on DVD's.

I have to say that I am amazingly happy with my TV3. I posted pics of my install, which I assume you all remember as I was the first on the forum to receive my PJ. The install, done by a local company, is so seamless that folks often don't even notice that there's a PJ until the screen comes down.

A few things that I'm really loving:

- For $98 on newegg, I picked up an Asus GeForce FX5200 with DVI output. Using Windows XP Media Center Edition with the nvDVD codec, there is a noticeable improvement over my progressive scan DVD player. Windows Media 9 HD (e.g., "The Hire" from BMW Films on the "Do Amazing Things DVD) is purely stunning.

I can't say this enough. I highly recommend that folks take advantage of those two DVI inputs.

- I have found that even in mixed light situations, the TV3 + Firehawk combination works very well for all but the darkest content.

A few issues I have:

- I can't resize the image for the DVI inputs. I think I need to move my PJ slightly closer and resize all of the other inputs to compensate for the 1/2" border overlap that I have because it was installed before I had a DVI input.

- The IR input is a little flaky. (Could be my universal remote--has anybody else had this problem with the remote that shipped with the TV3?) I find this especially challenging when tuning the color, contrast, etc. because I have to continually look back at the on screen display to see if the right arrow I hit actually changed the value or it was just lost. This is surprising since there are 2 IR ports.

- I have been stymied in my attempt to get OTA HDTV. I am on my second antenna specialist and I'm hoping for the best. My 92" screen really makes me see how much compression Dish Network uses on the Seattle locals. It's pretty darn bad on my 36" TV... so even the Dwin scaler can't fix this.

One funny note: I received my "secret George Lucas blue decoder glasses" from www.thx.com so I can tune my color/tint settings with the THX optimizer on the Star Wars I DVD. Haven't tried them out, but I'd be interested in comparing this silly method with others' settings using more professional methods like Colorfacts and Avia.

It looks like I'd better get back to the house and dust off my digital camera, just to keep up with the rest of you guys.

xcode, on your questions-

I haven't been able to play with the DVI inputs as I'm waiting on the new chip, I have two input devices with DVI, a Marantz 8400 and a Sony SAT200, so I'm eager. However if I understand DVI it's pretty much what you see is what you get.

I have the basic controls programmed into my Intelcontroller and they don't always seem to be picked up, haven't had any problems using the supplied remote.

I've had good luck using my OTA antenna, mine is in the attic and I'm about 30 miles from the towers, but these towers are mounted pretty high- Sears Tower. I have to agree, some stuff is either plain bad or compressed to the point that it's hard to watch.

What is the take-home price on one of these suckers?
FREAK!

Did you get one of the first units? The first run of TV3's had a chip in the scaler board that is flaky. I had the same problem with one of the first ones that I received and Dwin sent me the new chip as soon as it was available. Call your dealer and they should be able to get the replacement for you. If not call Roger at Dwin. I am as you can probably tell a dealer.....I have a TV3 at home and love it as well. Ihave heard bad things about the samsung dvi player in comparisons to the bravo. Any one have any solid reasons? I ordered one the other day to play around with and am wondering what to expect. I should be able to compare it to some high end dvd players and see how it stacks up. I currently have a Cary Audio D-6 and love it. Before that I had a Krell DVD standard and to me the Cary looks better.

Xcode-
I reprogrammed my Home Theater SL9000 from the SL8000 that came with the TV3. I haven't had any problems with either. If I recall, your room is white, like mine. Usually white ceilings will do much better with IR controls than rooms with black everywhere. I have often heard complaints about this in the past and black room HT's will get equipped with IR repeaters. I just point my SL9000 up at the ceiling and even the equipment in the glass door case works. The one problem I had was that the HTR SL9000 would not take the TV3 code of 177 for the AUX button so I had to program each like button. I changed the AUX button to read TV2 (There is no TV3 in the list of LCD labels).

My intended 2 - DVI use will be a DVI DVD player and the E* PVR-931 receiver. RGB1 will be the DTC-100, RGB2 will be my E*6000 if I keep it.
Component 1 connects to my Panny DST50 Tuner. Currently, I have my DVD player connected to Component 2.

Someone posted in another thread a great use of the composite video connections. -- To monitor the AV receiver and other on screen displays. What a great idea! I plan to do that this weekend. I now have a small 5" color TV in the rack for this purpose but that idea will allow me to retire it.
I still have an SVHS VCR for a cable analog tuner and VHS player. That will get the SVHS connections. I don't have any plans to add an HT computer but I may add one for internet use, a low tech game or two(not into games)but that has very low priority for me now.
As you can see, the Dwin 2x5 TV3 switch input compliment was a huge weighted selling factor for my needs. One that no other projector could handle except my ECP-4000 with the switch box accessory.

Currently, behind every source device I now have two cables, one that goes to the CRT and the other, to the Dwin. My cabinet is positioned that I can easily swap the connections in a few seconds. Reason? I am leery of the bulb life/cost so I am continuing to use the CRT for non- quality TV stuff, like when my daughter want to watch MTV or I watch the news.

OTA here is very solid! When I lived upstate NY, I had to have a 120 ft. tower to get a variety of stations. Here, I live 4 miles from the city's tower farm for all the stations. I can see the towers from my roof so I am lucky. We also have every major station doing 1080i except for local PBS who is in bed with the city government for multicasting goals. The only thing I can say is that during these startup years many stations are running low power. Some day your situation may improve. Also, in the attic antennas is good for stealth but very bad for reception/ and usually loaded with multipath. I have my antenna mounted outside the house about 10' above roofline. At 5 ft above roof line the signal was about 30% of what I have now.

Thanks for all the info so far, Don. I should be getting my white one in a couple of weeks I hope. So reading all these TV3 threads just got more interesting. A few more questions:

1. What type of screen, size, and distance are your certified eyeballs viewing this at?

2. Is there a discrete on or off for the TV3 on the remote or in its IR database?

I can't say this enough. I highly recommend that folks take advantage of those two DVI inputs.

I totally agree! I am using the DVI out on my radeon card, and DVI is stunning!

Daniel-

I am using a Da-Lite Matte white 1.0 gain screen which is custom designed for variable aspect ratio using flat black non-reflective variable size masks.

I decided against screens with gain long ago because all screens with gain will have artifacts depending on viewing location. There are disadvantages, of course, but I overcame most of these by making my room light controlled. I have two choices of seating (which may change if I ever get rid of the CRT. Prime seating is about 1.7-1.8 screen width (92") Room for 3 people. Secondary seating is on the side at about 1.0X screen widths. Room for 2 people.

The on-off is the power button on the remote. Not sure if that answers your question. It toggles. There is also a power button on the transcanner box. LED is flashing when plugged in and on when turned on.
The remote is actually a universal Home Theater Master Remote with custom silk screened labels. It is the model SL8000. I presume any remote will work with remote IR code 177 entered for all commands. The number keypad will direct access each of the inputs switch. Like 1 selects Composite 1 and 2 Composite 2, 3 SVHS 1 and 4 SVHS2. etc. 1-0 for all 10 inputs. Each input remembers it's last setup.

To have discreet power.....
Go into menu and go to set-up
there should be something for power in there
uncheck the toggle option and select the other which is ?
now you can use the T/V button to turn unit on and the power button for off.

sorry about the instructions as I don't have the unit in front of me and cannot remember the names of all setting. Plus I only do this once per set-up so it is kind of foggy in my head:)

press ALT then select 1,2, or 3 .........I don't remember which number corresponds with what ratio but it works.......

rba51- I recall that is in the manual, which I read rather quickly late one night during a commercial break on JAG. :)

Cool! Thanks Don and rba51. This is gonna work great for macros. Another HTM remotes to my collection.

The TV3 has a power command which works for on and off, and an off command. To use both, you have to set it up in the OSD like rba51 said.

I tried to use the TV3 with an IR repeater on the box. I had lots of problems getting commands to work. It was like it was sluggish at times and like it wasn't getting the commands other times. I pulled the IR flasher off the box and tried the remote. It works great now. I just point the remote at the screen and don't have any problems with the remote anymore. I imagine the problem was that the projector and the box were both getting the same commands and they were being ignored to prevent problems caused by redundant commands.

Originally posted by rba51
Did you get one of the first units? The first run of TV3's had a chip in the scaler board that is flaky. I had the same problem with one of the first ones that I received and Dwin sent me the new chip as soon as it was available. Call your dealer and they should be able to get the replacement for you. If not call Roger at Dwin. I am as you can probably tell a dealer.....I have a TV3 at home and love it as well. Ihave heard bad things about the samsung dvi player in comparisons to the bravo. Any one have any solid reasons? I ordered one the other day to play around with and am wondering what to expect. I should be able to compare it to some high end dvd players and see how it stacks up. I currently have a Cary Audio D-6 and love it. Before that I had a Krell DVD standard and to me the Cary looks better.

Yes--mine was one of the very first. I'll contact my dealer.

You do not have to contact your dealer. Dwin is currently manufacturing replacement boards with the new chip. It is a board replacement, not just a chip replacement. Dwin will have the new boards in each dealer's hands in two to three weeks. Your dealer will contact you when he/her gets the boards. Machines shipping now have the new board.

Quick Question: Does the TV3 projectors have a Five-speed, six-segment color wheel ?

Pardon my ignorance but it is mentioned in the tv3 feature list that it has aspect ratio recognition for either anamorphic or letterbox. Does this still holds true if the tv3 is fed with DVI signal? Does it automatically fill up my 16:9 screen when a letterbox dvd is played or I still get black bars? This is just one of my concerns. I would appreciate any help.

thanks,
twelly

Originally posted by mark haflich
You do not have to contact your dealer. Dwin is currently manufacturing replacement boards with the new chip. It is a board replacement, not just a chip replacement. Dwin will have the new boards in each dealer's hands in two to three weeks. Your dealer will contact you when he/her gets the boards. Machines shipping now have the new board.

Should I assume that this new board includes the new HDCP chip and a less-flaky IR receiver?

Originally posted by twelly
Pardon my ignorance but it is mentioned in the tv3 feature list that it has aspect ratio recognition for either anamorphic or letterbox. Does this still holds true if the tv3 is fed with DVI signal? Does it automatically fill up my 16:9 screen when a letterbox dvd is played or I still get black bars? This is just one of my concerns. I would appreciate any help.

thanks,
twelly

Twelly:

The DVI input cannot be resized and the input format is automatically selected. I assume the output format is selected at the source.

Got a question... if I buy the TV3 do you recommend that I should pay an ISF guy to calibrate the projector or just buy the calibration dvd disc (avia or video essentials or something) and calibrate it on my own? You think TV3 has enough video controls to do the calibration? The reason I asked is because I've read some postings that TV3 has limited controls for calibration compared to other DLP projs such as the Z10K.

Follow-up question on the aspect ratio adjustment (if using DVI) which I posted earlier, if I'm watching a letterbox dvd I can only do the adjustment from the dvd player only (if the feature is available) to minimize the black bars?

Thanks in advance for your input.

-twelly

The TV3 "HAD" limited controls. Many people on the forum, including myself have played with the advanced controls which are now accessible.

I have re-calibrated my unit to D65 and the picture is much better than out of the box, although out of the box is VERY good.

I would wait 100 hours or so before paying someone to calibrate the unit, that way everything has a chance to break in.

Twelly-

It depends on whether you want to please your local ISF guy or whether you just want to enjoy your TV3. It depends on whether you want to have what others, like Cary said, a very good picture, or whether you feel uncomfortable knowing that you haven't had your TV3 calibrated to D6500. Then, having spent a good sum of money to go through the calibration to 6500, will you feel better knowing that is what it is or would you feel better buying a new DVHS VCR or new DVI DVD player with that money plus some chump change left over?

I have the codes in case I want to spend some money to make my local ISF expert happy, but I know that I would not be happy in the end as I don't need to satisfy a color temperature spec to be happy with MY Dwin and I don't care what others think as they won't be out the money nor will they be watching my TV3. I don't have the specialized test equipment nor the specific experience to perform the calibration so I stay out of the menus.

But, let's consider the real world environment here. I use a screen that is a 1.0 gain white. Dwin recommended a 1.3 gain white. Most likely if you use their spec screen out of the box would be perfect according to what Dwin wants. If you deviate from the spec screen by using a Firehawk or other negative gain screen, you may find calibration is definitely in order. There are mixed opinions on this but many claim that non-1.0 gain white screens will add shifts to the image and require a tweak of calibration to maintain spec. I've heard arguments both ways on this. In my opinion, when I set up the dwin, out of the box, I found the picture lacked a bit of "pop" that I had anticipated and saw at CES with the Dwin demo. Considering that I was using a screen with less gain than what Dwin had recommended, I decided to enter an increased Contrast that brought the picture quality to where I felt it pleasing to my eyes and it suited a SMPTE color bar pattern better under blue glass when I did a check. The contrast out of the box was factory at 60 and I increased it to 78. That was the only tweak I did and I am very pleased with the picture. Yes, the whites on the Dwin do appear more like the Sony Trinitron look and I'm sure that it is preferred that they be more like the color temperature of a broadcast SMPTE white I use in my edit suite. That white has a softer look and is a bit less blue. What Cary did was achieve that look of the broadcast standard and he can be happy that he has a calibrated Dwin. I know that the higher color temperature will have more punch to it but I don't feel the need to spend the ISF money to achieve the softer look that D6500 will achieve. You have to decide what you will need and whether the money spent is worth that look.

Here's another issue about MY home theater that I know affects the picture but as I have stated before, I have a total multimedia experience I try to create, not a perfect specification picture on the screen. I have various mood lights I turn on that sometimes spill ambient color light and, well heck, why go to all the trouble to achieve a perfect color temperature when that would be lost in a room that most of the time is filled with soft moods of reds or blues? Some of us just have different goals with our home theater experience.

"It depends on whether you want to please your local ISF guy or whether you just want to enjoy your TV3."

Interesting comment, I tend to agree:)

Twelly,

I've had at least five different digital PJ's in my HT , and we have adjusted the color with the AVIA disk on three or four of them (can't remember exactly), none had been ISF calibrated prior to visiting my HT (they were the: JVC SX-21, Marantz S2, and I believe 2 Infocus 7200's). Unfortunately, I can't comment on the TV3 regarding my personal HT, as it failed to show up on Friday as promised!!:(

At any rate, every time we finished our AVIA adjustments and fine tunning the picture was stunning.

I've also adjusted several other PJ's at various dealer locations with excellent results using the basic color adjustment controls on the user menu (e.g. Dwin TV3, Sharp Z10k, NEC HT1000, Marantz S2, Infocus 7200 and SP110, SX-21, need I go on).

My point is that for the average Joe who just wants to enjoy a great picture, digit PJ's are for you, and IMO, in many cases it's not necessary to have the PJ professionally calibrated, most can be fine tunned out of the box with excellent results.

However, for the Videophile who is a fanatic, and demands as close to perfection as possible (and that could be to some degree in one's mind), then fork out the money and get it calibrated, or learn how to DIY.

This is simply my opinion and I'm sure many will not agree:)

xkode-

I talked about this earlier... and is one of my gripes with the DWIN scaler... it should allow for adjustment, depending on source of course..

I am going to use an HTPC with a Radeon 8500 via DVI.. I am using RGB currently and cannot get it to size correctly... which I think is a function of the card resolution..

I am waiting for my 931 to get here..

I have been having a nightmare with my own DWIN Demo, it arrived with a serious defect in the optical path, I overnighted it back to get the HDCP upgrade and the fix on the optics, but it returns looking equally as bad.. when I had a very important DEMO scheduled for this weekend.

Needless to say I am a bit upset, that they would send it back that way..

McGuillity's Law I guess

Mcgullicuty states that Murphy is an optimist.

-ADS-

I guess I am going to piss a few off here, but you simply will not get your money's worth from your projector unless you calibrate it. I am talking gray scale calibration here.

Forgot about calibration for gray scale. You guys gotta be kidding that you do not set contrast, brightness, tint, hue, and sharpness by using something like an Avia disk? Hell if you do not do at least that, why even bother to focus the machine? Setting these things with a $40 set up disk is set up, not calibration. You do not have to pay anyone to do these things. The Avia disk is essentially idiot proof. It tells you how to do it.

Now calibrating a gray scale requires at the very least an optical comparator or a color temperature meter. Meters were very expensive (in the neighborhood of $5 to $10K), so few purchased them except those who earned part of their living from calibrating gray scales. Now prices have dropped way down. Many have purchased their own machines and several have chipped in to share. 5 guys, maybe $300 each, whatever. For the price of paying for a calibrator, you could own a share of a machine. But PLEEEZE, there is a huge improvement in picture accuracy by calibrating the gray scale. Most who have a set calibrated see a HUGE improvement. Things are not bad out of the box after doing a quick AVIA set up on most machines. But do not kid yourself. On most machines, things will look much better after a gray scale calibration. You can think whatever you want here, but you will go to your grave dead wrong if you do not think a gray scale calibration will not improve most projectors substantially.

Yes. I took the ISF training, but the training is simply not needed to do or be a calibrator. I really enjoyed the ISF class. At lot of video talk by very knowledgeable instructors and a few classmate who knew something and weren't afraid to express themselves. But the class really does not teach very much about calibration. You get just a few minutes of play with a meter and the G2 and drive controls for. Hardly enough to qualify oneself as a calibrator.

Don. I listen to you and learn a bunch. Calibration is like adjusting an engine. It can run real fine but a little adjustment can make it sing. Same for your projector. Take it from a friend guys.

d4lions- I'll bet Dwin will get an earfull when you talk to them. I would be pixxed off too. Actually, I have been there with a betacam service from Sony so I know how you feel.

Mark- about 6 months ago I was at a local HDTV enthusiaists breakfast meeting and was talking to an old friend of mine who explained it this way to me. He had recently paid for a calibrtation on his RPTV. He said the difference is that you (Don) are a broadcast engineer and know how to do 99% of the calibration but may lack the proper equipment to do it 100%. You can get to 99%. The rest of us don't know the first thing about TV signals and have to rely on someone who does to get as best a picture out of our investment as possible.
He was right on target! Mark you are right, in part. The second thing I did with my Dwin after hanging it was to get out the equipment I had and do a calibration (your correctly called it set-up) of the picture geometry, and color balance for each of the inputs I, initially, would be using. Yes (for me) it was a quick and easy procedure. Now, where I think we disagree is, that I do feel I am getting my money's worth from the Dwin without the 6500 calibration. I don't know if it is 8500 or 6500, but it looks cooler than a SMPTE standard color temperature I use in the edit suite. Would I feel the cost of ISF calibration to D6500 would make me happy enough to justify the cost? I doubt it because I am enjoying it with Dwin's factory calibration, whatever it is, right now.

Seeking oipinions from the Dwin owners-

Last evening I was watching a movie when the power decided to go on and off about 4 times in rapid succession and then just off for about 2 minutes before returning to normal. The TV3 went into shutdown, ie. power lights still on but the bulb was out. I tried to turn it back on but no go. Had my bulb been popped? The sick feeling as my spare bulb had not yet arrived since it was backordered. After waiting for about 5 minutes, I was able to cycle the power twice and the TV3 came back on normally. During the off time of no power there were no fans running either.

Comments? How do you feel this has affected my bulb life?
Who is running a UPS on the TV3 now and how do you have it wired since there are two boxes? Can one have the UPS on just the PJ head and make that work or should one have two UPS's to keep power to both boxes? I am thinking I would be wise to add two UPS's. When I ran my power to the receptacle in the ceiling I did it to allow for a UPS insertion in my utility shop where I have access to that 120V line so I did plan ahead for this. Want opinions first- The idea is to preserve wear and tare on the bulb.

Thanks for all your reply. All I want is to see a stunning PQ from this projector similar to the one I saw in our local dealer when they did the demo. I just want to make sure that I am happy and satisfied with what I paid for since it's a big sum of money I am spending.

Don, I didn't know about the screen recommendation for the tv3 which is 1.3 gain white. I thought the Firehawk is highly recommended for DLP projectors and is one of the best. I'm not sure if this topic has already been discussed in this board. What do you guys recommend? I was thinking of ordering 110" diagonal Firehawk.

thanks,
-twelly

twelly-

Jeff Klida of Dwin told me at CES, they set the projector up at the factory for a "white screen" and do not recommend a gray screen or Firehawk however it would work well too if I chose to go that route. People on this forum who were more concerned about this last January checked it out and supplied more details, like the screen Dwin uses for their standard was a 1.3 gain white. Right or wrong, that is the source of my information. Personally, I am very impressed with the Firehawk but I spoke to Don Stewart while we were on last year's HT cruise and he told me for my purpose, what I had was the optimum screen. That is a white 1.0 gain because I am using a CRT and plan for a dlp. He did not recommend his Firehawk for the CRT.

Firehawk is definately a no no for a CRT. Studeotech is a no no for a DLP. Studeotech was designed or aty least specked by Joe Kane and it enhances the colors where CRTs are weak. The red or the blue, I do not remember which. CRTs have much less light output than a DLP so you need gain (1.3), much higher and you get hot spotting. With a CRT you do not want any ambient light so ambient light rejection is not an issue. You need a totally dark room. With a DLP you can have some ambient light and the Firehawk is designed to reject and not generate ambient light. CRTs have great blacks. You do not need black enhancement. DLPs need black enhancement so the Firehawk is gray to enhance the blacks. For a multipurpose screen (DLP and CRT) a neutral screen with some gain would be ideal. A 1.3 without the color enhancement of the Studeotech. Next best a 1.0 matt white. Not ideal for either, but a good compromise.

Don,
Get a UPS. I have one at the TV3, and I am going to add a smaller UPS to the Transcaler box at the rack(or I might just buy another big unit and run everything off of it).

The 100.00-150.00 is worth not having to worry about your investment IMHO.




Originally posted by Don Landis
Seeking oipinions from the Dwin owners-

Last evening I was watching a movie when the power decided to go on and off about 4 times in rapid succession and then just off for about 2 minutes before returning to normal. The TV3 went into shutdown, ie. power lights still on but the bulb was out. I tried to turn it back on but no go. Had my bulb been popped? The sick feeling as my spare bulb had not yet arrived since it was backordered. After waiting for about 5 minutes, I was able to cycle the power twice and the TV3 came back on normally. During the off time of no power there were no fans running either.

Comments? How do you feel this has affected my bulb life?
Who is running a UPS on the TV3 now and how do you have it wired since there are two boxes? Can one have the UPS on just the PJ head and make that work or should one have two UPS's to keep power to both boxes? I am thinking I would be wise to add two UPS's. When I ran my power to the receptacle in the ceiling I did it to allow for a UPS insertion in my utility shop where I have access to that 120V line so I did plan ahead for this. Want opinions first- The idea is to preserve wear and tare on the bulb.

So what screen do you guys recommend for the tv3? I am not very familiar with screens. I just rely on reviews that I read and I have limited knowledge (only stewart greyhawk & firehawk). I've searched the 'screens' section and I found these 2 screens that they recommend for tv3:
1. white gain 1.3 screen like the Stewart Studiokek 130
2. Dalite Cinema Vision 1.3 gain

Which do you prefer? You can also post if you have other suggestions. Forgive me if this is not the ideal place for such topic.

thanks,
twelly

I am using a Vutec Britewhite 1.3 gain screen, ans I am happy with the results

Fred- Thanks. I know you brought this up some time ago. I will add at minimum one spare UPS I have in stock not doing anything, today to the line going to my ceiling receptacle. Sure am glad I planned for it when I did the install. :) This is the Thunderstorm season here in Florida and momentary blackouts are common. I will also consider a larger UPS for my equipment rack for all but the big amps on the buttkicker and the subwoofers. For half the price of a TV3 bulb I could have the whole necessary system protected.

Cary,

Now that you've set your TV3 for D65 could you post your before and after settings?

Don,

Do a search on UPS, there was a very good thread a short time ago that addressed your question about bulb damage with power outages. There were some interesting opinions, one gentleman stated that he believes the impact is nominal to the bulb with a power loss, as it cools down naturally, just don't turn the PJ on again until the bulb has completely cooled down (obviously takes longer with no fan). He had a very good explanation/opinion as I recall on the subject of power outages and bulb damage, or lack of, if that's the case.

twelly,

Regarding which screen to use with the TV3, you'll never get a definitive answer to your question on this forum (similar to which PJ do I buy), as there are to many varied opinions on this subject.

IMO, were down to splitting hairs at this point, the Firehawk, or either of the two screens you listed above can give you excellent results under the right circumstances. So, at this point your environment and viewing habits should help you come to closure.

I continue to wonder why Dwin is so adamant about their recommendation of a white screen. I'm not aware of any other Digital DLP manufacture who takes such a strong stance on this subject, I guess they know something no body else knows:)

FYI - I have no plans to replace my Firehawk at this point, as I enjoy watching sporting events with side lighting and the Firehawk is perfectly suited for this type of viewing. It also reflects a great picture in total darkness, with my current PJ, and all the digital PJ's I've reviewed over the past months. I believe this will be the case with the TV3 as well.

Oh, that "stunning picture" you saw on the TV3 at your local dealer, had the PJ been professionally calibrated, or was it out of the box with minor adjustments by the dealer?

Mark,

Your points are well taken. If I could find a professional ISF calibrator who will put his/my money where his mouth is, I would be happy to pay the price of a calibration if it yields noticeable improvement. I may try to find someone who is willing to calibrate my PJ under the condition that if I don't like the resluts, I don't pay him, or perhaps pay him half price, I do realize it's valuable time he's spending with me.

Thomas- Yes, I was following that thread, I think started by Fred a few months ago.
Here's my concern- If the fans quit, the latent heat buildup could cause damage to other internal parts, while the bulb may survive fine. Quartz glass and ceramic base if it has such a thing is far more durable at elevated temperatures than chips and plastic that are normally kept cool while the bulb cools down to a reasonable temperature. With no power, the entire case will heat up to beyond what is when the power is shut off and the fans run for additional 30 seconds or so. Just a thought.

Anyway, I just got back in and picked up a second UPS for the main rack sans the big amps. So now I have a 700VA just for the PJ and a 1500VA for the main rack. That should do it for now.


The white screen 1.3 Gain by Dwin decree, I think is so they can supply an out of the box near perfect calibration. As my dealer told me, Dwin is one of the few companies who does a calibration on every PJ shipped. Others rely on a field calibration and will default to a standard settings, i'm guessing like 50% on all controls.

d4lions, could you describe your DWIN optical path problem for us?

Don, I have noticed that if I accidentally hit the off button for the projector and then try to turn it on again right away, the power light flashes and the projector continues its cool down period. Don't think that's really what you might have been experiencing or not. One way to test whether a dual UPS is necessary is to unplug the scaler and see what happens. See if the projector goes into a cool down mode as if it were shut off.

I'm still wondering if any old UPS will work for the projector and box. They both use transformers internally so having a true sine wave power shouldn't be necessary, right? So any 350VA (or larger) UPS should be plenty for the projector, especially since cooldown time is usually around 30 seconds.

Question, I noticed on the Dwin site that the in/out air vents are located on the sides. Does this mean that you do not need to be concerned about spaced behind the PJ for proper cooling?
FREAK!

Don,

Yes, I recall the discussion about the other side effects, as opposed to the bulb only considerations, good point. In my mind, installing a UPS is a wise investment, it's always nice to have power when you land.

I heard the same information about factory calibrations, in fact, someone told me that Edward Dwin himself calibrates every PJ that comes off the line, not sure if this is true, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

FYI, I checked with FedEx this morning, my TV3 hit the local drop off location very early this morning and is now on a truck headed for my house, it should arrive this afternoon. Can it be true that I may finally get my PJ after all these months of research and waiting?:)

Gee, Thomas, I forgot that you lost the weekend of fine viewing a TV3. The good news is that when it arrives today you should be viewing within a few minutes of unpacking. Unless you waited to do the install of the mount until after it arrives. I had everything ready to go except my DVI cable conduit was too small so I had to change that out quickly but I was doing picture setup within 30 minutes and then I re-routed the DVI cable later.

My philosophy is that if I am going to go to the trouble of putting in a UPS, it will be adequate to allow me entertainment through a 30 minute power outage. Only 3 times I recall have we been without power longer than 15 minutes. Most of the time it goes out for 2-10 minutes. I got the small one installed now on the PJ head but I need to work a bit harder to install the big one. I still have to test the battery switch over and stuff, as the small one came off my shelf and may need a new battery.

Metallicafreak,

Apparently you were looking at specs for the original Transvision on the Dwin site instead of the TV3. Unlike the original, the TV3 (and TV2) have front intakes and back outputs, so you do need some clearance for proper cooling.

Hey guys! Just wanted to chime in and say I'm part of the DWIN TV3 club now! :D Thank you Mr. Huskins!

My room is still under construction, and won't be ready for use for some time. But, I did manage to crack open the dual boxes and get an image up on the wall! I had to make sure it worked ;) Anyway, I will say that I do not have a completely sealed cabinet. As many of you had mentioned, I do get the white crescent from the front-side of the projector. The problem is DWIN tried to cover a circle with a "U" shaped housing, thus leaving the corners of the "U" open to let light come through. It looks like a half-pipe at the corners. There is also minimal light leakage through the back of the unit through the thin, vertical vents. I'll have to wait and see how it works in my home theater room setup to make any "performance" comments.

I also fired it up with the Samsung-931 player via DVI. 480p and 720p work great, however, there is still snow via 1080i (can't remember if Brent had this problem as well). This may be a dumb question, since A) I haven't calibrated the unit with ANYTHING, B) It's my first front projector and C) was projecting on a white wall, but I had the 5th Element in (Superbit) and I paused it on a closeup of Leloo. The surroundings were dark, but while it was paused, the dark area was "flickering". To best describe this flickering, it looked like the snow that was produced on the 1080i input from the Samsung, but with the image from the movie. Very strange. Any thoughts?

Anyway, I can't wait to fire this thing up. As many have said, it's easy to get it up and running. The connections are simple, and definitely clutter-free. The casing on the midnight blue version is just cool. Reminds me of the paint job the Loewe sets have. Nice! When I get everything up and running, I'll post my thoughts, impressions, etc.

OK, I just got a call from my wife, my TV3 has arrived:) :) :) :)

You guys are killing me here!

I hope to join this club before too much longer.

Congrats Tom and Chris!

"I'm part of the DWIN TV3 club now!"
Yeah! When I started this thread I thought of calling it Dwin TV3 Owners Club, Members Only" but thought that would irritate too many outsiders. The intent of this thread was to (as a reminder) have a place where actual owners of the TV3 could discuss tweaks and ideas to enhance our use of the TV3. So far it is working.

I own a tv3 but it won't be here for 2 days. Its replacing my sharp 9000 and will be projected on a dalite ccv 159 inch diag screen. It will be interesting to see how bright this puppy is and how improved it is over the 9000/nrs combo I had. Am waiting for a bravoD1 to arrive to activate the dvi thing. Oh and I have a new panamorph to use with the tv3...HOG HEAVEN!!! Am I in THE TV3 CLUB? huh, huh?

If I am an owner of the store and the store owns the demo TV3, does that make me a member of the owners' club? Remember my home machine is an Electrohome 9500LC (highly modified). For what it's worth, my demo machine had an optical system failure (the bottom of the frame darkening and going out of focus) and it is now winging its way back to Dwin for diagnoses and repair. **** does indeed happen to store demos. Thank God (no I am not referring to Alan G.) it doesn't happen very often to the machines I deliver to customers. After Dwin diagnoses the failure I will discuss it and the fix. Over the phone with Dwin, I have confirmed that it happened to one other machine Dwin shipped and that failure was traced to shipping damage.

All this positive talk is making me jealous. I was considering the Virtuoso because of its price. Is the Dwin close in price. I like the two box solution.

Bill- There is a Virtuoso vs Dwin thread where your pros and cons of each is being discussed. You may find good criteria for your decision there.

Mark- Possession is 9/10 of the ownership rules. Heck if the bank owns mine for the next 60 days I suppose floor planning from dealers should be allowed too. BTW- I own a CRT (ECP-4000) and still have it in play here.

With this Dwin being so popular and so many getting delivery now, I'll bet we will know every gory detail of every isolated issue with it. That's a good thing.

We are now UPS'd on the PJ head and tomorrow I plan to install the big UPS on the main rack if I get a break from the work load here. I just got word I'll be in NYC again in 2 weeks but I don't believe I'll have time to stop in during my travels, Mark. Your store will be closed when I pass through the area.

Chris- I think you will discover upon close examination there are two light leaks from the TV3 lens area. One is outside the lens if you look straight up under a hanging PJ or down from the top of a right side up PJ. This can be fixed with a gasket. Details later. I plan to do that when IO get some time. For now it doesn't affect my viewing. The second is the crescent leak on the ceiling which is coming from inside the lens barrel. I believe the fix for this would be some sort of iris behind the lens or a matte flag in front of it. My only issue with the crescent leak is that it disrupts my mood lighting pattern on the ceiling. It does not affect the picture although one dealer has advised me that some believe improved contrast ratio can be measured by fixing this leak with the iris aperture behind the lens.

Just some ideas to kick around!

samalmoe-
Since the TV3 auto scales the video what would you do with the panamorph lens? I'd like to learn what you hope to achieve with that.

Got it and installed it today. Installation went like a breeze for the most part. I only had a problem with two issues.

First, the manual lense offset mechanism on the top of the projector does not operate smoothly. I didn't try it before the projector was ceiling mounted but the wheel or some internal mechanism seemed to be sticking and woud not operate smoothly. It is of minor concern as I was able to get everything adjusted properly but DWIN could certainly improve on it's design.

Two, I couldn't get a component signal out of the Hughes Hi-Def Sat receiver. S-Video worked but no component. Both component inputs on the TV3 accepted a signal from the DVD player so I am not sure what the problem is.

Finally, I didn't do any tweaking yet even though I have an experimental screen (Dazian Celtic Cloth) that I am sure doesn't conform to DWIN's factory calibration screen specs. After visiting Thomas Marshall's and participating in his setup this weekend I will probably come back and try some fine tuning but I will say that right out of the box I have no complaints.

Mark

Mark,
Going off topic here, but your Hughes will only output either HD or SD not both simutanously. I forgot what button(s) to press for the switching. Maybe ACTION and INPUT to get you back. Goodluck!

don
I contacted william over at dwin and he said the tv3 also lets you choose aspect ration except with dvi which automatically gives you 16;9. So using a panamorph will squish image down from full screen dvd and project an anamorphic image w no gray bars and more light and resolution... With a dvi connection at 720p which a bravo will let you do, same thing..full 16;9 squished to anamorphic dvd. better everything...I hope..I will know fer sure tomorrow

sam-
Thanks. I'm not sure how this would be an advantage unless you are scaling the image tall in your source and then squish it down with the Panamorph. I'll be interested in learning how you do with the experiment. I can tell you that with DVD now vs. the sat tuner HDTV input that it sets up fine for each mode. I have not seen a way to do vertical squeeze like in my CRT but with the TV3 the image AR and picture sizing is automatically correct. Just an FYI- I don't like those distorted AR's some RPTV makers have you do just to fill the screen.

I keep reading that there is no aspect ratio adjustment on the DVI input; this is not true. What is true, is that regardless of input there is no aspect adjustment with 720p or 1080i sources, they are always processed in Anamorphic mode. Since it seems that most people want to use their Bravo at 720p the result is the same, but the problem is the use of 720p, not DVI.

To use the Panamorph you have to have an anamorphic 2.35 or wider film and the PJ must be in Letterbox mode.

so thats how it works..so if i have bravo feeding 720p w dvi or component it will be fullscreen and then panamorph will squish it to anamorphic. sounds right...i hope

Mark,

The darkening and blurring of the image you can fix in house in about five minutes. My unit had the same issue and DWIN talked me though the adjustment...very easy but sensitive.

Has anyone except me accessed the advanced menus to the gray scale settings? If so, what were your starting #'s?

Update - TV3 installed and running.

I didn't have much time last night, but I did do a quick table mount and review of the PJ to be sure everything is operating ok (i.e. no shipping damage).

I had the PJ up and running in about half an hour. I ran component feeds from my DVD, OTA HD Receiver, and my JVC D-VHS, and all went well. (FYI - Should get my 931 on Friday, I'm very interested to compare it to my Sony DVP-S9000ES)

The picture was beautiful right out of the box with a few minor adjustments.

I will ceiling mount it tonight if all goes well.

No issue with manual lens adjustment at this point, seems smooth and operates very well.

Looking forward to this weekend and getting down to the nuts and bolts of the setup/adjustments.

Glen, Mark and Rob will be over for the setup, but I must insist that we take off our propeller heads at some point, and sit down and enjoy a movie over a glass of Champagne.

Don,

I saw Nemesis over the weekend and I totally agree, this is a dynamite Demo DVD, the collision scene toward the end pushed my subs to the max (rattled my teeth) and the special effects are top notch. Not to bad a movie either, I was surprised as most of the Star Trek movies have been a disappointment to me in the past, and I'm a big Star Trek fan.

Cary,

Here are the Factory settings on my unit:

White Balance
R 54
G 48
B 45

Gain
R 50
G 50
B 50

Level
R 48
G 51
B 61

Now give up your post calibration settings and I won't report you for not writing down your initial settings before you changed them. :)

Thomas...glad all is going well.

I eagerly await your review of the HD931. Mine is on order and have yet to recieve it....its in short supply.

I also have the 9000 and I bought the Sammy for the DVI at 720p. Please either post the review or PM me..

Thanks.........

And....don't forget to watch a damn movie.

samalmoe,

Nope, that won't work. If the Dwin is in Anamorphic mode, which it will be if you input 720p, the image will already be "squished" and the Panamorph will create a "double squish". The Dwin must be in Letterbox mode which you can only access with 480i or 480p sources.

"If the Dwin is in Anamorphic mode, which it will be if you input 720p, the image will already be "squished" and the Panamorph will create a "double squish". The Dwin must be in Letterbox mode which you can only access with 480i or 480p sources."

Now that is beginning to make more sense! Thanks. I'm still learning this but the above fits with my prior understanding.

scotsol..if the dwin gets a 720 signal it thinks its hd and projects a full 16;9 image. if that image is a dvd then it should be tall and the pana should squeeze it down...i hope

samalmoe,

The images on an anamorphic disk start "tall". The Anamorphic setting of a PJ reverses the process to give a correctly shaped image. Since you want your lens to reshape the image instead of the PJ, you need to have the PJ in the Letterbox mode, which retains the "tall" shape as it is on the disk.

scottsol
according to dwin, with a 720p input the projector will project a full screen 16;9 image., because it thinks its an hd feed. Are you saying that hd is a squished image [anamorphic]? If it is not then a anamorphic dvd played at 720p will appear 'tall' at the full screen aspect ratio. you stick the panamorph on it and voila tou have a squished proper image.....i hope....no?

How is the DVI input. Is it that much of an improvement.

Still sitting on the fence.
BW

samalmoe,

Yes, HD uses the same Anamorphic processing as DVD.

BillWilliams,
I noticed a significant difference when I got my DVI cable(I am using a Radeon HTPC, and I could switch back from RGB to DVI within 1 second, and the DVI looked better).


"Cary,

Here are the Factory settings on my unit:

White Balance
R 54
G 48
B 45

Gain
R 50
G 50
B 50

Level
R 48
G 51
B 61

Now give up your post calibration settings and I won't report you for not writing down your initial settings before you changed them."

Cary, I want to see those numbers too:)
Are you watching on a white 1.3 gain screen with no ambient light???:)
If so, the numbers should be close enough.

When watching an anamorphic 2.35:1 DVD from the Bravo D1 at 720P the image is already correct. I believe this is also the case for 480P. I am talking about DVI input here. I don't see how you could use a lens when using a DVI input. Maybe if you sent a 480i signal.

Can you send a 480i signal via DVI from the Bravo to the Dwin?

I was wrong about the 480P. When 480P or 480i is chosen on the D1, the Dwin allows its aspect ratio control. The Letterbox can be chosen which gives the vertical stretch to full panel.

just hooked up the tv3 and havent aviaed it yet. the image looks pretty good, really about like the sharp9000/nrs combo, probably a bit brighter. The big difference came when i put the pannamorph on...brighter and quite a bit smoother...it does make a noticible difference. I hope i can use it with dvi, possibly on 480 if 720 doesnt work cause of no aspect control. will see when bravo gets here. nice blue box!

Scottsol,

I wrote them down, honestly my dog ate them!!:rolleyes:

Scottsol and Fred,

I will do some more playing tonight and report back tomorrow with the Colorfacts before, using the beginning numbers, and after results.

Count me in as one of the club. My Dwin TV3 finally arrived today. So far it looks a billion times better than the aging NEC VT540 it is replacing. However, I've noticed a narrow dark grey vertical bar to the left of the image. I don't have the projector ceiling mounted yet, so currently it's on my coffee table close to the screen. When it's properly mounted, the image will fill the entire screen and the bar will be off screen and probably not noticeable.

try adjusting horizontal image control

Guys,

Just got my TV3 today and hooked it up temporarily on top of some boxes onto my wall. All I can say is WOW!!! I just put it up on my wall and it looked gorgeous. I left marks in my carpet where my jaw dropped. All I have to say is thank you to everyone on this forum. My HT is almost complete...just waiting on the Stewart and D1 now. I'm dying to see it on the real screen.

-sonny

The advanced menus for Grey scale do not seem to affect the DVI input in any way. They do have a benefit when using the multi-pin monitor/component input. I have just started to play with the figures so these are only starters, I will play some more this weekend.

The TV3 started out at around 11,500, WAY to blue.

After a couple of hours of playing I came up with the following: 6350, 6580, and 6400 in continuous tests, set for D65 and HDTV. The CIE was around .30 and .32. The colors overlapped very good down to 25IRE before they jump around...this could be due to my white room. The lumen's/foot were at 13.42 @ 100IRE. I am using a 122.5" 1.3 gain white Vutek screen. The unit is ceiling mounted about 15' from the screen so I am at the projectors minimum distance.

THe numbers are as follows:
Gain:
r-49
g-50
b-18

Level
r-46
g-49
b-73

Let me know what you think.

I've found I have 2 light spots in my picture. And by that I mean actual light. When the screen is black, I can see a white spot on the left edge and about the left third, both in the middle vertically. Any idea what this is before I try doing anything? They aren't bright white spots, but they can be seen when the screen is black. I even had a guest notice them.

When I last checked, I had no light leak around the lens at all. Best way to check that is to turn the projector on in a completely dark room and then put the lens cap on. Only light leak was through the lens and a little in the rear grill.

The TV3 started out at around 11,500, WAY to blue.

That certainly isn't something I wanted to hear! Why would the DWIN be that far off? That number really isn't at all acceptable, and I would certainly think that shift towards blue would be easily noticed in pretty much any type of viewing.

So far all of the posts from people who have actually measured the color temp of the DWIN have shown it to be very blue out of the box.

TOXARCH

YOU probably have what i came across. Dust. Take of bottom cover ( 6 phillips screws), and blow in some compressed air, into any areas that look like possible spots where dust might get into. I did this and my dust spots vanished.

Cary-

I did a Macbeth method of color analysis on the 100IRE white screen of my TV3. It came to 7300 +- 200 K. While this is not an instrumental method it is a consistently valid method when a trained eye is the judge. It is the method I used in the color matching work I did when I worked in the textile industry some years ago although I substituted the monitor for the Macbeth light, the scientific principle is the same. I'll describe the procedure in case anyone else would like to try it but if you are tested color blind or have any slight color blindness then this method will not work well but you can determine that by using a helper and running a series of blind tests (no pun intended here).

You first need a good multisync monitor that has a degrees K adjustment in at least 100 degrees increments. I used a Sony monitor for this purpose. It is a multiscan E540 for reference and, no, it is not calibrated against a known standard that I'm aware unless Sony did it before I bought it. This may be cause for invalid numerical readings. In effect, any instrument whether it be your ISF calibration equipment or a Macbeth system, if the instrument isn't calibrated against a known standard, numerical readings may be off.

Send the white signal to this monitor and adjust the degrees K to a known like 6500. Then also feed that signal to your TV3. With the Sony monitor adjust the degrees K so the white color exactly matches in a side by side comparison (Macbeth method) to the white on the TV3 screen. Using this method, my TV3 has a white of 7300 with a deviation of 200 degrees in the trials. There is no way my TV3 is 8500 nor is it calibrated at 6500 per Sony monitor standard.
Just for fun, I ran the Sony monitor up to 11000 ( the highest it would go)and the white was so blue I can't imagine that you were ever pleased with the picture. 6500 is actually a bit on the warm side of what I call white, snow white at high noon. 11000 makes the snow white look like it does at 6AM on a cloudy day! Blue.

I had a problem with a white spot (not a pixel or mirror, much larger). Dust in the "sealed" err "unsealed" optical path. Blow it out.

I thought it might be dust. But I already cleaned out the projector once while I was taking pictures of the inside. I had a little dust building up near the front intake vent. Well, I guess I can do it again. Thanks MRJAZZZ and Mark.

I have about 110 hours so far. Hope I don't run into this every 100 hours. Think there would be a problem adding some filter media on the inside of the front grill? One problem I did notice is that air is also sucked in around the lens. I moved the rubber gasket forward to prevent this, but then you can't focus the projector after the cover is back on cause the gasket is sandwiched between the lens and the projector cover.

I am also a new owner of a TV3. So far I am very pleased.
I have 2 simple questions.
-I have Aviaed my inputs from the DVD player. I also have a HD sat box connected thru the RGB connection. How do I calibrate the video settings on this input without dragging a computer to the TV3?
- Inside the same package as the power cord are 2 connector type things(hi-tech speak) and there is no mention of them in any of the docs. Any idea what these are for?

Thanks

Bob

You are probably referring to the serial cables for adding custom control stuff. I believe it is in your manual.

There are two ways to do a setup on the RGBHV inputs. If you have a JVC 30K DVHS player you can buy the DTheater AVIA tape. Not sure but maybe Alan Gouger can assist you in obtaining one of these. I had heard they were out. The second way is what I did, Match the screen sizes to the DVD based on markers on my screen and then use the HDNet images they transmit from a DVHS tape. A computer would also work but you'd need a set of charts in file format to display.

I think the 2 connectors you speak of are for 12 volt triggers. The plugs for those are on the back of the scaler box. They can be set to trigger for different aspect ratios and used for automatic masking.

it was mentioned that the Dwin external scaler is available a a separate. Conversely, can you feed the PJ directly with a dvi signal from a different scaler, the HD Leeza, for example?

I don't think you can buy the PJ head separately but if you have the TV3 package, you can always try this. What advantage would that have?

The answer, Old Swami, is that while the Dwin deinterlacer/scaler is good, there is always better, like a Teranex or maybe a HD Leeza or the new three astericks. Whatever.

Where's Thomas Marshall? Please post your impressions of your TV3 on the Firehawk. I have the same combo coming soon. You're probably too busy playing with your new toy.

I hope to be playing with his new toy on Saturday too! :)

Several others will be there as well. I'm sure Thomas and others will post there impressions afterwards.

Got some few questions regarding the tv3:
1. Does anyone knows what type of scaler/video processor tv3 has? Is it similar to the TS2 or TS3?
2. If I feed the tv3 with 720p from a sammy 931 using the dvi does this means that it will bypass the internal video processor of the tv3? Does this also means that I can only use the tv3 video processor if I feed it with 480i via composite, s-video or component?

Question about the sammy 931:
I just read the manual and it says that if I turn on progressive DVI is disabled. So if I turn off progressive and use the dvi out does it auto upscales to 720p or 1080i depending on what is selected?

Sorry for the newbie questions. :)
I'll appreaciate all your answers.

Thomas, hope you'll post your review of the tv3 using the sammy 931. I'm excited to hear your reviews. I'm still working on my HT room. In a matter of few weeks I'll be ordering the tv3+931+110"firehawk.

thanks,
twelly

Mark- Well, I was hoping you could do better than just say it is "better" :)

Does it have "better" functionality like 12 inputs as opposed to 10 on the TV3? Does it support multiple outputs than just DVI like the TV3? Or is it "better" in the quality specs like it has "better" signal to noise specs and "better" calibration tweakability?

Sorry for disappearing on you guys. As vdmai said, I was buzzy playing around with the new PJ, I had some issues with the ceiling mount due to the design of my room which side tracked me for a few days.

We will be further adjusting the picture this weekend with AVIA. The 931 will arrive today, so we will evaluate it as well.

At this point the picture looks excellent to my eye on both my DVD and JVC 30k (component feeds).

I love the two piece configuration, and so far the PJ has been a pleasure to work with.

The only complaint I have so far is with the remote, the IR is a bit flaky at times (signal doesn't always get through requiring multiple presses of a given button). This won't be a long term issue as I'm going to install an automated control system when I get the time. I think this was mentioned before and it really isn't that big of a deal.

We will also do a comparison between the Firehawk and a 1.0 gain Da-lite white screen. I'm a bit biased toward the Firehawk, so I look forward to my guests opinion.

More to come next week

I also have the remote flakiness--earlier in the thread somebody said that they are shipping a new board to improve that (although I'm not 100% sure that he wasn't confusing this issue with the HDCP chip fix since he also referred to the "flaky" HDCP...)

Tom- Can you describe how you plan to A/B the two screens?

I am particularly interested in your results since I curerently have the TV3 on the Dalite screen and wanted to try a Firehawk but my local dealer and Don Stewart have both talked me out of it for the time being.

Originally posted by 7Music7
The advanced menus for Grey scale do not seem to affect the DVI input in any way. They do have a benefit when using the multi-pin monitor/component input. I have just started to play with the figures so these are only starters, I will play some more this weekend.

The TV3 started out at around 11,500, WAY to blue.


Wow... that's strange. I'm really surprised that the DVI input can't be calibrated since that's the only input I use any more now that I have switched to practically 100% HTPC for everything on my PJ.

Question for those who have entered the service menu: Can you calibrate the RGB settings differently for each input?

I now have DVD (nvDVD codec), WM9 (T2 Extreme and some BMWFilms short clips is about the extent of my WM9-HD content), and HDTV (very weak signal--only get NBC, WB, and FOX consistently--hoping for a better tuner card to come along soon) all going through the DVI output on my GeForce FX5200.

I did notice that in a grayscale calibration video in WM9HD that I watched, I did see a little blue in the most white bar. It would be nice to fix that and I'm surprised that the RGB calibrations don't affect DVI.

I have to say, I am pretty pleased with most content, although color is really my biggest problem now that I have switched from component to DVI. It seems that different codecs and different content tend to have different color profiles. Since they are all coming from the same input, I can't optimize each one individually at the PJ.

Don,

First off, it won't be rocket science, just a few simple comparisons using selected frames and scenes to use as a baseline in the comparison.

This is what I had in mind:

We will use a portable "pop up" type screen, it's a 4:3 aspect ratio screen, approx. eight feet wide and six feet high.

My Firehawk sits above a large speaker enclosure box than runs the width of the screen.

The first test will simply involve standing the portable on top of the box directly against/in front of the Firehawk, approx. half the width of the screen. So we will have a split screen, half Firehawk and half Da-lite.

The second test will be to display the whole picture on each screen separately, switching back and forth between evaluation frames/scenes. During this test we will attempt to re-adjust the PJ for the lower gain white screen.

Keep in mind we won't have to much time as our primary mission is to maximize the PQ of the TV3 with my Firehawk.

Any other suggestions would be welcome.

Also, don't forget to give your impression of the HD931 w/this combo....Can't wait to hear back from you. Thanks in advance!

Thomas....I also await you report because I run a Sony 9000 in interlace mode to my S2 on a Firehawk. My Sammy 931 is a no show so no tests until next week.

Thanks in advance.

Thomas....if you don't mind...How about starting a new thread on your experience?

No problem, I will start a thread for this particular review, and continue to post relevant information in this thread.

We plan on comparing my Sony DVP-S9000ES with the 931, and will use each on the screen test as well.

Both DVD's will be connected simultaneously, so we can A/B back and forth on freeze frames and motion scenes from the same movie.

I tried Cary's settings and got a definite improvement with the RGB input. Unfortunately the adjustment also changed the picture on the component inputs. The level/gain numbers for component (which are different than the starting RGB numbers) didn't change, but the picture did.
The Dwin will only allow these adjustments for the component and RGB inputs and will not work for 480i regardless of input. The White Balance adjustment, which will let you turn down the blue but not balance the gray scale, is global, all inputs and all scan rates are adjusted at once.

Dwin just informed me that sets with the upgrade HDCP board will have different starting points than older units. Apparently if you spend a lot of time adjusting gray scale with the old board in place you will have to do it all over again once you get the new board.


TWELLY,
The TV3 controller is essentially a TS3 with fixed output resolution.

Dwin just informed me that sets with the upgrade HDCP board will have different starting points than older units. Apparently if you spend a lot of time adjusting gray scale with the old board in place you will have to do it all over again once you get the new board.

Excellent! I don't mind recalibrating. (Actually, I'll make my dealer do the first round re-calibration since he'll be installing the board and he calibrated it the first time). It's nice that they are addressing additional problems at the same time as fixing the HDCP problem. So far I now have unconfirmed rumor of a new RGB calibration as well as a better IR receiver.

question: has anybody received their new board yet?? my dealer has gone dark on me.

It will be some news if they actually improve the IR. This has been a Dwin problem since the CRT days. The only thing I've seen about the IR was from a poster who HOPED that it would be improved with the new board. Next thing you know they'll be providing 12V plugs that fit properly.


xkode2002:
I hate to say it, but Dwin said they should have all the new boards sent out in about 2 (or 3) weeks. :eek:

BTW How do you get quotes sectioned off between two lines?

Don. I was referring to a better deinterlacer/scaler than the one built into the Dwin box. Just as there are better but more expensive projectors than the Dwin there are clearly better and more expensive deinterlacer/scalers. I prefer the Dwin deinterlacer/scaler to most other built into the $10K class of projectors. Others, such as Tom Strade and Ives F, would disagree with my preference FOR the Dwin. However, it is not as good as say a Teranex or an HD Leeza or a Rock Pro.

Just watched T2: Extreme in Windows Media 9 HD using DVI output. Wow wow wow. Now that is what I bought my TV3 for. For anybody who has an HTPC, I highly recommend it. WM9 is so much smoother than the MPEG2 stuff you get from normal HDTV. It's really quite amazing--and a whole movie (and then some) fits on one 7GB DVD.

And unlike DVD playback using even the best codecs, the colors were perfect with no tweaking.

(make sure you check the thread on the HTPC forum on how to get the license and play in WMP9--without the Interactual player.)

Scottsol, just use quote and /quote surrounded by brackets (or click the quote button on any post).

Does anyone know if a PDF version of the TV3 owners manual is available? The Dwin site only has the older Transvision.
TIA
Steve

Some of you may like to see a quick and dirty pair of pictures I just took of whatever was on HDTV to compare my ECP4000 image with the TV3 image. Obviously there are much better images I could have selected but this was just to compare whatever was on as it was displayed on both projectors.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=267575

I just hooked up the Sat C kit. I never had trouble before with HDNet or HBO HD but Showtime HD is squashed. I can't use aspect ratio control as it is locked. I'm using component inputs but I think it would be the same for DVI. Is there a solution for this? This is with a DST3000.

Just this afternoon, Showtime HD was squashed vertically on my Dish5000 and 6000 too. I think it is Showtime HD and not anything you are doing. I'd guess it was some flaw in their upconverted movie.

I think you are right. It is fine now that a different movie is on. Thanks.

according to dwin the tv3 only has aspect control on 480 material with component.... with 720 and up theres no control with component and no control nowhere nohow with dvi.....
can anyone confirm this? thanks

Component and DVI seem the same. Control for aspect ratio only with 480 material.

Don,
That pic was great! I picked the image on the right side of the screen before I new which was which.

Fred- Yes but most over there didn't get my point and felt something was wrong with the ECP4000. They totally skipped the part where I was showing how both looked after a 5 minute warm-up and NO tweaking on either. My point was that the ECP4000 requires a half hour and then a 5-10 minutes of careful adjustment EACH TIME to even come close to the DLP image. Most of the CRT zealots are very defensive and if you have a CRT which doesn't blow away the digital it is mostly broke. But, as I have said, there is more to this than just image quality or black level or contrast ratio. It is the total package that makes for an enjoyable evening watching movies!

don
I had a runco crt and after 5 minutes the picture looked good and only needed adjustment twice a year...... maybe your projector is a little finnecky...
my tv3 also she looks good all the time.

Originally posted by Don Landis
Yes but most over there didn't get my point and felt something was wrong with the ECP4000. They totally skipped the part where I was showing how both looked after a 5 minute warm-up and NO tweaking on either.

I think it's the reason so many that have dlp's wouldn't trade them for a CRT. The out of box experience is very satifactory and minor tweaking takes it steps further toward perfection. Well, as good as it will get for the particular unit anyways.
No convergence issues ever and no fears of burn-in go a long ways. I never worry with my dlp, but I'm always conscious with my plasma.

I do have to admit that a CRT settled in and tweaked looks pretty damn good...so I understand why so many are such diehards.


Bill

"I had a runco crt and after 5 minutes the picture looked good and only needed adjustment twice a year...... maybe your projector is a little finnecky...
my tv3 also she looks good all the time."

Yup! I also know of a few CRT's that never get tweaked. Everytime I fly on Delta 757 I see one in that category! :D

Hi guys, I just posted a brief summary of my weekend results with the TV3, 931 and Da-lite screen comparison. I wanted to reference it in this thread.

Thanks

This might be a stupid question (so I'm looking for a stupid answer..:)), I don't remember seeing anywhere in the manual instructions on how to change the bulb. I'm guessing the 4 screws on the bottom of the PJ. Did I just skip over it?

Thanks,
Sonny

Thomas- would you mind editing your announcement and adding a quickie link to that thread. :) Better if you do it.

The bulb change instructions come with the bulb.
Remove screws from bottom, turn over and remove cover, loosen two screws holding bulb assembly and replace.

To all new owners,

Some have noted in a ceiling mounted configuration that they are getting light spill coming from the lens in the form of a crescent shape(s) on the ceiling. Is this or is it not something to be expected? How many, if any of you have TV3 with absolutely no light spill coming from the lens.

Mark

Would you believe I took 2 pictures of the bulb today? Well, I did.

I opened the TV3 up to blow some air in to get rid of a couple of apparent dust spots. I had a look at the DLP chip from the openings where the light gets in. I am wondering if dust can get directly on the chip or if the chip has a cover over the mirrors. Dust could get to the chip rather easily in this projector. Decided to go ahead and open up the bulb cover and take a couple of pictures while I had it open and to just check it out because I am thinking of getting a new bulb and keep the original one as a spare since I have about 110 hours on it. It's better to use a new bulb right away while it is on the 30 day warranty to make sure it is good.

Anyway, good news is that the two white spots are now gone after cleaning. Bad news is that there are 4 new dimmer white spots. They must be multiplying. Gonna have to clean it again.

I thought about pulling the lens assembly out to make sure it was clean, but I couldn't get to all three screws easily so I left it alone for now.

Well, here are the bulb pictures:

Oh yeah, Mark, I have light spill and it is very noticable on my dark flat blue ceilings. The people with white ceilings are are the ones who I have heard replies from and they do not seem to notice as much light spill as I do. I was going to send it back to have it checked when I first got it, but DWIN wanted me to pay for the shipping so I never sent it.

Here is the other bulb picture:

Thanks for the pics Toxarch. You are at least the second or third person to report dust spots with their TV3.

I would like to second Mark's request for responses to his question about how many DWIN owners have light spill coming out of the front of the lens. All three units I have seen have this problem. However, DWIN has apparently indicated that this should not exist.

Responses are appreciated!

I got my projector right before Easter. I called DWIN about the problem a couple of weeks later. The guy I talked to said the light spill out the lens should not exist but they would refund the price if the rear light spill was not acceptable. He did not make the same offer for the front light spill. I was going to send it back to get fixed until I learned that other TV3 owners here had the same problem. I'll send it back when DWIN pays for the shipping to fix it.

Oh yeah, I moved the rubber gasket around the lens back a little because it was pinched between the bottom of the case and the lens. The pinching made it hard to turn the zoom lens when I rehung it from the ceiling. Guess I could have just left it alone. I now get a tiny bit of light leaking from around the lens too.

I have light spill as well. I have the projector mounted behind the seating area so I don't even notice it. I do have a white ceiling though.

-sonny

"The people with white ceilings are are the ones who I have heard replies from and they do not seem to notice as much light spill as I do. "

Not from me. Noticing it is one thing but being bothered by it is another.

I have a white ceiling and plan to do some tweaks on it to see if it can be "easily" corrected. My only complaint about the crescents are that it disrupts my mood lighting on the ceiling but it has absolutely no effect on the video on the screen.

Toxarch- Can you publish the bulb number. I saw it in your one image but it was too blurry to read. I have a bulb on back order from my dealer but thought I'd see if there are other sources on this I should know about.

Also- I am curious as to your procedure with bulb swap. I was always under the impression that changing a bulb will add many hours of age and should be avoided. What is the story here? Any scientific data to support the theory that bulbs have a shelf life when not used? I understand your reasoning about the 30 day warranty but it would seem to me that the risk of taking many hours off the original bulb by pulling it and replacing it some months later after your spare bulb dies may be wrong thinking. I would tend to trust the spare bulb sitting on the shelf until the original dies.

Also, I have no spots, yet! But, I have not opened the case either. I am thinking of adding a dust grabber filter on the intake because this is Florida and the pollen is what makes my house dusty. Filtered air is a must. If Dwin didn't use a filter on the intake, I think I need to do that soon.

The TV2 had the same crescent of light coming from the lens as the TV3. All indications are that this is inherent in the design of the optical system.

scott- yes I first saw it on a Dwin TV2 demo room locally.

As noted before, I also have light spill from my TV3. I think the comment regarding lighter ceilings is accurate, as I have a light blue ceiling and the spill is not noticeable during viewing.

However, I spoke with Rodger at Dwin (a support engineer) and he said they are aware of the problem, and can fix it if I send the PJ to them. He also offered a second alternative if I was interested and here it is:

Not exactly rocket science, but it works (uses the lens cap).

Take a piece of paper and hold it up to the lens (when the PJ is on and reflecting an image) and trace the outer diameter of the lens, then outline the crescent shape (white light) of the projection image near the center of the lens, (note - trace a little bit inside the image to start with).

Take that template and cut out the inter crescent image, place the template over the lens cap and transfer the center image to the lens cap (Note - trace a little inside the image to start with).

Then, using an X-Acto knife, cut out the crescent center from the lens and test the cap on the PJ. File the hole larger as required until all the image is viewable on your screen.

No more light spill.

Wow...that seems like a pretty ghetto solution to something that shouldn't even be there. So all of our PJ's with light spill isn't supposed to be there? Did Roger mention what they would do to the PJ if you sent it in?

If there is dust in the PJ, doesn't that mean the light path isn't sealed? I don't want to make it a habit of blowing out the PJ every so often. What IS sealed then?

-sonny

Tom,
Did you suggest to Dwin that maybe they could provide these caps for their customers at no charge. This would probably be a lot cheaper for them than having to deal with projectors sent back to them for the fix. Also we would have the original lens cap intact if needed.

Originally posted by Don Landis
"The people with white ceilings are are the ones who I have heard replies from and they do not seem to notice as much light spill as I do. "

Not from me. Noticing it is one thing but being bothered by it is another.

I have a white ceiling and plan to do some tweaks on it to see if it can be "easily" corrected. My only complaint about the crescents are that it disrupts my mood lighting on the ceiling but it has absolutely no effect on the video on the screen.

Toxarch- Can you publish the bulb number. I saw it in your one image but it was too blurry to read. I have a bulb on back order from my dealer but thought I'd see if there are other sources on this I should know about.

I have a feeling that my projector spills more light than others. But I haven't had a chance to check out any other TV3s so see if that's true.

Sorry Don, I looked back in the original pictures and they are all too blurry around the bulb to see the numbers. I'll open the light cover when I clean it again and get the number.

Also- I am curious as to your procedure with bulb swap. I was always under the impression that changing a bulb will add many hours of age and should be avoided. What is the story here? Any scientific data to support the theory that bulbs have a shelf life when not used? I understand your reasoning about the 30 day warranty but it would seem to me that the risk of taking many hours off the original bulb by pulling it and replacing it some months later after your spare bulb dies may be wrong thinking. I would tend to trust the spare bulb sitting on the shelf until the original dies.

I had never heard that changing the bulb will add hours. I have no scientific data or proof behind it. I was just going with the 30 day warranty. Let's say you buy a new bulb and put it on the shelf. 6 months later the projector bulb burns out right before a holiday weekend so you put the new bulb in. You flip on the projector and the new bulb pops. Now you have family coming over for the holiday and no bulb. If you had tried out the new bulb while it was under warranty, then you could have gotten a free replacement. Rather than change back and forth, I was going to put the original bulb on the shelf. After all, these bulbs either blow right away, or last a long time. That's why they only have a 30 day warranty.

Changing the bulb out can't be any worse than moving the projector, or not using the projector for a while. These projectors are supposed to be somewhat portable aren't they? How about the vibrations from the bass in your room? How about what it goes through in shipping to you? I don't see how changing a bulb could do any worse to add hours to a bulb.

Also, I have no spots, yet! But, I have not opened the case either. I am thinking of adding a dust grabber filter on the intake because this is Florida and the pollen is what makes my house dusty. Filtered air is a must. If Dwin didn't use a filter on the intake, I think I need to do that soon.

This is a good idea. DWIN put no filters in the projector. But I have noticed that air also comes in around the lens. I think that's a major problem area

I had mentioned the same solution that Thomas heard from DWIN to fix the light spill. Someone here had said that using the lens cap for it would destroy the contrast. I was going to try it with a black cloth and maybe zip-tie it around the lens for a simple solution.

Originally posted by sbaillar
If there is dust in the PJ, doesn't that mean the light path isn't sealed? I don't want to make it a habit of blowing out the PJ every so often. What IS sealed then?

I too originally thought it was a light sealed path. But the TV3 specs don't say that it is a light sealed path. I believe they just claim a light seal cabinet (or something close to that). Which means that light doesn't leak out of the projector cover.

I called Dwin myself and got the exact same answers:

1. IR, HDCP, and "Too Blue" problems are *all* fixed with the new board that will come as part of the HDCP upgrade kit.

2. Dwin can fix your light spill problem if you send your PJ to then. 7-10 days is the turnaround and you can do it any time in the first year of ownership (under warranty). I plan to do this--I can live without the PJ for a week or two but I don't want to wait until after the warranty period expires to decide I'm unhappy with the light spill or the lens cap solution.

Oh--forgot--they contend that *nobody* truly has a sealed light path because the bulb needs cooling and nobody has a liquid-cooled bulb. They say they haven't had problems with dust and that the light path is shielded from dust.

Can I ask (not to insult anyone): I'm one of the oldest TV3 owners here (first on the forum to get it) and I haven't had any dust issues. To those who have had dust blobs:

1. Is the PJ ceiling or mounted or table/floor mounted?
2. Is the theater room regularly cleaned or is it generally dusty in there? ;)

Originally posted by xkode2002
Dwin can fix your light spill problem if you send your PJ to then.

Did DWIN say if this will be fixed on new PJs in the future?

Art

Originally posted by xkode2002


1. IR, HDCP, and "Too Blue" problems are *all* fixed with the new board that will come as part of the HDCP upgrade kit.




So on this Too blue fix, will the unit display closer to 6500K rather then 8500K? Will this reset all of my color settings(so I have to do them again)?

The lightspill thing is kind of rediculous, and I laughed when I read your comments sbaillar:) It is amazing that we spend 10,500 on a projector, and they want us to start an arts and crafts project to fix this. I am also probably going to ship the unit back to dwin(I may send both boxes back to give me the HDCP upgrade too, although I may be a little nervous sending this in the mail(how much insurance should I get from UPS, or is there a better way to shiip this?).

If you are going to send it back I would insure it for the full value.

I thought the HDCP fix was going to be a field/dealer replaceable swap? Is the *too blue* going to be a firmware gamma change on a chip?

-sonny

I'm not sure what Dwin does for the light spill fix, my guess is they have an insert of some type that blocks the light from the inside.

I have wondered the same thing about if Dwin is now shipping PJ's with the light spill fix. I don't think so, as my PJ is one of the newer ones, it has the new HDCP board in it (i.e. came off the line in the last month), but it still has light spill, long after they knew it was a problem.

toxarch,

Don't you have an unusually long drop from your ceiling with your PJ (like 2 or 3 feet)?

I think the closer your PJ is to the ceiling, the less light spill you get, I noticed this when I was mounting the PJ, mines about six inches lower than the ceiling, and the light spray is about four feet out from the lens I would guess.

Another reason why it's not a big issue for me is that my ceiling is ten feet high, this helps, you just don't focus on it during the movie.

I'm still going to have it fixed though.

So, who will be the first to have the fix done and report back?

Man, I love this PJ and hate the thought of loosing it for a week or two :(

Mine has a dust problem and it is ceiling mounted. The theater is clean and I have an air filter (one step down from a hepafilter) in the air return and an electostatic air cleaner.

Blew air on the back of the lens again to try to solve the dust spots. They are less noticable now, but some are still there. Some could live with it, but I won't after spending so much on a projector. I'm going to try a lens cloth next and see if that does the job. Also got the bulb numbers for Don and whoever else wants it. This is everything written on the top of the bulb.

TOP
OSRAM
VIP R 200/P22
GERMANY qn1

If anyone finds a good price on replacement bulbs, please share. I noticed the bulb has a spot or two of silicone holding it in along with the screws. Course, so does some of the mirrors.

And about DWIN claiming the light path is shielded from dust. Is this like their claim of a light sealed cabinet? And then they admit light spills out the rear fans. But it's still a light sealed cabinet. If you look at a certain angle with the cover off, you can see the DLP chip. It would be simple for dust to get all over the light path and on the DLP chip (unless they have a glass cover on the DLP chip, I couldn't see one). You can stick your finger between the DLP chip and the lens. That's not dust shielded. Maybe they were talking about dust falling on the outside cover.

Thomas, I have a 12 foot ceiling and have the projector drop down 2 feet. It's noticable from my back row and in the second row when you are reclined.

Thomas-

How are you going to send your pj back to Dwin? In other words, do you have to mail it, or will Dwin let you drop it off in person (since you don't live that far away)?

I'm curious because I know of other companies that make you mail merchandise back for warranty work even if you live down the block and can return it in person.

Originally posted by Fred DeGrandis
So on this Too blue fix, will the unit display closer to 6500K rather then 8500K? Will this reset all of my color settings(so I have to do them again)?


Yes--the new board will completely change the color profile--so you're going to have to start over.

Originally posted by sbaillar
If you are going to send it back I would insure it for the full value.

I thought the HDCP fix was going to be a field/dealer replaceable swap? Is the *too blue* going to be a firmware gamma change on a chip?

-sonny

Apparently, the kit will contain a whole new board for your TV3 scaler box. Basically, you're getting a whole new scaler without the connections. And the firmware, I guess, will contain new gamma settings, yes.

Rob-

You have a legal right to ship your own product as your own carrier. Just make out a standard bill of lading on it for an FOB shipment and Dwin will have to accept it. Follow all the rules like getting an RMA number and pack it up just like you would if sending by a common carrier. What you can't do is let a friend or someone else who is not a registered common carrier deliver the projector. Dwin would have a legal right to refuse it. If you show up and tell the guard you have a delivery and show him your bill of lading, he will direct you to their receiving dock or whereever they receive their freight. Been there done that with other companies and know the drill.

Toxarch- Thanks for the info on that bulb.
I have heard from many sources that you don't want to be swapping bulbs as it shortens the life but this had to do with quartz bulbs not UHP or what ever Dwin is using. I know from personal experience ( no hour meter) that when I used to swap Quartz tubes in my 1 KW lights with 500 watt tubes that both had short life span. Now I bought additional light heads and have 500 and 1KW systems and the tubes last 10 to 15 times as long. But as I said that is a different light. I just don't know how it compares.
Since the bulbs are such a high cost of running a projector we all need to sghare what ever we know so we can get the best life and lowest price on these things.


Ref- the HDCP board swap- Is this too-blue issue just on the DVI or is it on all the inputs? I don't have DVI yet and I am just thrilled with the color I have and would hate for it to end up too red! :(

Have you guys been able to blow the dust out without taking the PJ off of the ceiling mount or do you have to take it down, take it apart, blow the dust out, put it back up and reposition it with the screen, refocus, etc. etc.?

xcode- I thought there were two boards in that box. Someone posted a picture of it a while back. was that you or Toxarch??? :)

I guess I could be wrong. I haven't taken my box apart yet.

That was me that took the pictures inside the box. There are two boards in the scaler box. One out in the open and another for the DVI connections behind a cover.

xkode, the first time I tried to clean it, I took the projector down and then took the cover off, etc. That was because I was thinking about removing the lens and seeing where the dust was. But, I didn't have an angled allen wrench to reach all three screws. This last time I tried to reclean it, I just pulled the cover off while it was hanging from the ceiling. But remember, mine drops down from the ceiling so I have access to the cover screws. Those without a drop might have a problem getting to the screws, but it might be doable.

And for what it's worth, my projector came with some definite blue tinting.

Hmmm... ****

-twelly

twelly- I was hoping this thread would not become a place for this PJ vs. that PJ. but I would tell you that in my experience, no product is ever perfect. The whole idea here in this thread is to bring all things that bother owners about the TV3 out in the open and discuss ways to improve them. If knowledge in the public eye is detrimental to Dwin sales then so be it. BUT, I must offer that you need to consider this as a personal decision- Do I choose a product that has a public display of all issues that owners are freely discussing with a public list of fixes and tweaks and help OR Do I choose a Product that the only thing I know is what I have briefly seen in a one stop demo and the good features list? Nobody is talking about tweaks and improvenments from the mjg. or from creative owners. Is it possible that the only PJ that has any problems at all is the Dwin? Hardly. Is it possible that all other PJ's are free of issues and problems? Hardly.

Please feel free to ask questions about anything the owners are working on to improve their use of the Dwin TV3 but try not to turn this thread into a "Dwin v any other PJ because I'm trying to decide what to buy" side track. This is just a friendly request because I can't stop anyone from posting "my choice is better than Dwin choice posts here. There are many this vs. that threads already and you certainly can start another to help you decide for your purchase, then use this thread to educate you to all the problems with the TV3 as well as the support you would get from Dwin as well as the creative fixes many owners will post here. OK?

In summary- please start a thread on the TV3 vs. the Nec if you want that kind of debate to help you decide what to purchase and I'm sure many owners will chime in there. I don't think we need that debate here.

Don,

Sorry if I kinda side tracked from the original intention of this thread. Your point is well taken. I'll remove my earlier comments. I'll keep stay tuned to this thread.

thanks,
twelly

Thanks, and please do start one. I'll participate in it where appropriate.

I'll leave my post up as a general reminder to all as to the idea behind this thread. Thanks for your understanding.

Originally posted by Toxarch
xkode, the first time I tried to clean it, I took the projector down and then took the cover off, etc. That was because I was thinking about removing the lens and seeing where the dust was. But, I didn't have an angled allen wrench to reach all three screws. This last time I tried to reclean it, I just pulled the cover off while it was hanging from the ceiling. But remember, mine drops down from the ceiling so I have access to the cover screws. Those without a drop might have a problem getting to the screws, but it might be doable.

Cool. Mine is flush-mounted, but even with the flush mounting, there is about 4" between the cover screws and the ceiling. It won't be as easy as having it on a table, but with an L-shaped tool I should be able to get the cover off without having to deal with mounting.

What kind of screws are they (I can only feel the holes)? ;)

They are small phillips screws. A short screwdriver might work. The good thing is, the slots that hold the cover will hold the cover without any screws, at least for a short while. That helps when removing/replacing it by yourself.

twelly and whoever might be reading this thread trying to decide whether they want this projector or not. I do comment on the problems with the TV3 and it might look like I don't like the projector. The truth is I love our TV3 and wouldn't trade it for any other projector in the same price range. My dust spot are not outrageous, but I do notice them when the screen is all black. Others might not notice them, but I am critical because I want a perfect picture. And I would love to never have to worry about it with a sealed light path. And the light spill out the lens is noticable, but doesn't affect the picture on the screen. I can sit in my front row and never see it. I am just trying to improve the overall watching experience.

So I might complain about something I see as a fault with the projector, but know that I love this projector and am just trying to improve it with the help of other AVS members.

I met up with Mark Gower today. His Dwin was mounted about 10 inches or so below the ceiling.

Although he didn't remember having light spill from his Dwin, it was definitely there. This wasn't as noticeable on his ceiling as some, but he definitely had the notorious crescent shaped light on the ceiling that all the other TV3's that I have seen have had. This makes number 4!

If Dwin really can fix this, I would really be curious as to how they would accomplish it. The spill is definitely coming out of the front of the lens (not the sides or cover).

I still wonder if it is an issue with the lens itself. The InFocus 7200 has the same type of light spill, and it also uses a Carl Zeiss lens.

Mark has (had) a great setup. Had to hurt to let that go!

Thanks for the demo Mark.

I'll certainly ask what changes they will make to the PJ to reduce the light spill when I call to get my RMA, but that won't be until July/August. I'm in no rush.

I feel a little sheepish not noticing the light spill before. Honestly, I couldn't recall seeing it but then again I wasn't looking for it either. It is not as evident as Thomas Marshall's but the projector is mounted under the soffit and is probably 6-8" lower than his and the ceiling is darker.

Here is something some of you might try (I'm no longer is possession of the TV3 I installed). About a year ago I noticed a local retailer had placed a piece of electrical tape over a small portion of the lens on a TV1/TV2. The tape was not touching the lens itself just the housing and was no more than one piece wide. At the time I did not understand what the purpose of the tape was nor did I ask but I would assume that was their solution to the same problem.

Mark

We are building a theater room and it's almost finished and I had already ordered the TV3 from the dealer. It actually wasn't even on my list months ago when I ordered it, I wanted either the Sharp 10K or the Yamaha 1000, but he steered me towards the Dwin (he is also a Sharp dealer) and the more I learned about it the more I wanted it :) But now he contacted me this week saying that the first 6 units he installed have all had sync problems and he has had to send them back for repair. He said it looks like when a satellite picture breaks up and pixellizes. I am going to call him to get more details, but he says he is no longer recommeding the projector to me at this time and suggested the Infocus. I definitely don't want the SP7200 and I had my heart set on the Dwin. He said he will still sell it to me if I want it, but he wanted to be upfront about the problems he's had.

Sooooo, my question is, has anyone heard of or seen this problem? I have been reading all of the threads since the projector has been released and I don't remember seeing this issue. I think I am still going to take my chances as the two box solution makes every other projector seem inferior. But, I thought I'd see what you guys have to say. He did say that Dwin is taking care of it and that when it is working properly the picture is stunning :)

Mark, That works. I have done it here. I use black gaffers tape doubled over for black on both sides. Basically, it is like a simple matte to kill the upward internal lens reflection from inside the barrel. I haven't looked inside but my guess is the inside of the lens has some reflectivity to it. I have some more experiments to run but will post my final cure I use when I'm happy with it. I promise it will be very simple and easy to do. :)

Don,

I think you are probably right that reflectivity within the lens is the most likely cause. It must be pretty far forward in the lens but I'm not sure why it seems to only disperse light in one direction. There couldn't be anything in the path that is acting like a prism or could there?

Mark

The light spill is not just in one direction. We just notice it on the ceiling because it is right next to the ceiling. People with a table mount notice it on the floor. The light spill is actually on all sides. I can see the spill on my side walls if the picture is all black. With a normal bright picture, the light spill is not really noticable. It's when there is a black screen that you can see all the spill. I have even been able to make out the blue border of the DLP chip on the wall around the screen.

Wade, I have never seen nor heard of the sync problem your dealer mentioned. Get your TV3 now and check it out before the theater is done. Then if needed, you can send it in and have it back by the time the theater is finished.

BTW, cleaned the projector. I still have a really light blur spot that I decided was unnoticable by anyone else in the blackest scenes. I'll have DWIN clean it when I send the projector in to fix the light spill. I'm going to call them and get another return authorization number and send it in the week before July 4th since noone will be here to use it that weekend.

Someone look really close at their lens for me. Under the outmost lens, there is what looks like a ring etched into the lens. It's a tiny ring in almost the center of the lens. I figure this is a flaw in making my lens, but wondered if it wasn't just my lens. I was cleaning the lens and saw the ring. Tried to wipe it off and couldn't. Then I noticed it was under the glass. So have a look if it's easy to check. It doesn't affect my picture but I was going to mention this to DWIN when I send the projector in. Maybe if I mention enough flaws in my projector, they'll send me a whole new one with a new bulb and new warranty. Then the 120 or so hours I have on this projector will have been free. Maybe not.

have you tried a lens hood?

Wade, how dare you bring up something that is not related to light spill on this thread!!

In answer to your question- I've had my TV3 for almost two months and I have never experienced the sync problem your dealer describes. I'm using a Sony 200 and a Marantz 8400 to feed the projector, but not using the DVI cables yet.

Has anybody else seen this problem?

This is the first I have heard of any sync problems as well.

John-

I think a lens hood probably would work. However, it is a matter of finding one that would fit. This is very unlikely. I think one would need to be made by hand in order to fit. If anyone is up to this task, and wants to make some extra ones, I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem selling them to the rest of the TV3 owners on this forum!

Wade,

No sync problems on my PJ. Don't let your salesman stop you from buying the best DLP on the market.

I now have my D1 and 931 running, the picture is SPECTACULAR, nothing short of STUNNING, this is the most beautiful picture I have ever seen on any PJ. I absolutely love it.

I watched Toy Story and Monster Inc. and I had to pick my jaw up off the floor, even my wife was blown away.

FYI, the light spill is a minor issue at best, the TV3 rules:)

Tom,

Let us know if you get a chance to do a good comparison between the 931 and D1.

Art

Gents,

On Wednesday Fedex brought me a Bravo and on Thursday my TV3. It's been a good week. Here are a few comments and questions:

1080i from Bravo to TV3 was stunning. We watched Die Another Day last night and frankly Halle Berry would look good over the composite connector... When writing is displayed on the screen, such as the Korean translation in some sceens, it looked very choppy, somewhat annoying. I guess this is a sacrifice of having high def dvd?

I have the light spill like everyone else. I'm not sure it bothers me like some of the threads I've read. It is not an overly quiet unit, especially compared to the lpx-500 I traded up for.

The controller box wreaks of quality. I didn't know what to expect but was impressed by the design and quality. The projector is nothing fancy. Plastic housing with venting front and back and noise.

Am I complaining? Not at all. I got it for the PQ and the connections. 1080i from my Sat520 and Bravo looks awsome.

I had to open my cover as there was a dust blob on my screen. A little compressed air blowing on the lense fixed it.

Questions:

How do you know if you have the most recent firmware and HDCP board upgrade?

Is DWIN really doing anything about the light spill? Has anyone shipped their projector back for a fix?

What about filters? Is DWIN doing anything here?

It seems if they came up with some kind of clip in filter on the inside of the vents it would reduce the dust and control the light spilling out of the vents.


-kraig

FYI - V Inc. (via Jim Noyd) recommends you feed the TV3 720p from the D1, I have run both 1080i and 720p and can't tell much difference. I'm currently using 720p as this matches the native resolution of the TV3.

I haven't had enough time to do a good comparison yet, but I can say both the 931 and D1 look fantastic to me. I will post my results after I do a closer comparison, hopefully this weekend. One of my fathers day presents from my wife is to be able to watch movies in the HT all day with no interruptions :).

One other thing, just in case any of you TV3 owners haven't purchased either the D1 or 931, RUN TO THE STORE AND BUY ONE NOW!!!

Looking at the throw angle of the crescent, I would say a standard lens hood would not work. Too wide. What we use on cameras when the lens hood does not help with a flare is what is called a "French Flag" This may help if properly adjusted but why go to all that trouble when a simple matte is what is called for and will work.

Yes, the lens projects a light spill ring but is far out of reach of the main image so we never see it on the screen or a reasonable distance from it.

What I have done is very simple and straight forward and very effective. I only had spill on the ceiling and none noticeable anywhere else except for the far right wall which is flat black duette Hunter Douglas shade. And unless I put up a white card I really can't see it on the shade either. I think if your entire room was projector screen white, you'd see it all around the projector. Anyway, the matte design works well and all traces of lige spill in front of the PJ is gone. I determined the actual position of the matte by displaying a full field screen and then lowered a piece of card down until I just saw the shadow begin to cut off the image. Then I backed off just a small amount and marked it.

OK here's an image of what I did with simple gaffers tape.

The back side of the tape has another piece of half moon stuck to it to prevent the sticky side from touching the lens. The tape does not touch the lens glass.

Also, there are no scratches or mars on my lens or any I can see on the inner elements.

dwinheads...I hooked up my new bravo to the tv3/panamorph and set it to dvi 480p and lo and behold it worked! dWIN said no dvi connection gives you aspect control but with the bravo at 480p it does..which lets me use the panamorph...which lets the whole shebang put out one bad momma of an image. Really clean and smoother. .quite noticible on the 159inch screen which shows all... the new settings are ;contrast 85
brightness 40
color 48
tint 60
sharpness 0

Wow Craig, a dust blob right off the bat. Hadn't of that yet.

Yours is upgraded if you can feed it 720P or 1080i and see a picture. The non-upgraded units just output static with these feeds.

Rob, when I used to compete in archery tournaments regularly, there were people that made their own black hoods. Most took an empty 20oz soft drink bottle and cut it in half and cut the ends off. Then spray paint the inside a flat black and use adhesive velcrow to hold it in place. I may try to make one that wraps almost all the way around the lens to see if I like it, but would still like to hear what DWIN's solution is.

As for the filter, I'm thinking about using a sponge-like filter on the inside of the front vent and see if that works alright. I saw the sponge filter used to line the intake for a riding lawnmower and got the idea. Now I just have to find a larger one to cut to fit. Or I could get the thin flat sponge and tape it inside or something.

Don,

Looks like about the top one third of the lens is blocked. I like your idea better than the lens cap, as I worry about heat build up with the cap on.

I'm going to use your technique this weekend. I'm having so much fun with my TV3 I just don't want to send it back, and I'm waiting for someone to get the Dwin fix to be sure it works.

samalmoe,

Very nice, I'm glad it's working for you.

That's a nice fix there Don. Nice and simple, just like you said it would be.

And you are sure this isn't having any negative effect on the actual image, right?

Thinking about this further, it occurred to me that there could be potential issues with this fix. Despite using black tape, I think it is still possible, if not likely, that some light will be reflected back into the lens which could, theoretically, compromise the image on the screen.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by Thomas Marshall
One other thing, just in case any of you TV3 owners haven't purchased either the D1 or 931, RUN TO THE STORE AND BUY ONE NOW!!!

Thomas, we are waiting for your recommendation on which one to get.

Don, thanks for posting. I had a similar idea. I took a white piece of paper and placed it over the lens with the projector on. Then I marked the outside edge of the lens and where the projected image is. I was then going to get something like black paper and cut a copy of this pattern out of the black paper and tape it in front of the lens. Same idea as the cut lens cap, but not ruining my lens cap in the process. I just haven't taken the time to buy a paper that would work. Thought about using the sample of Melotone (GOM alternative, but a little stiffer) to do this. Anything could work, but minimizing reflection back into the lens is the key.

The light spill is most noticable in dark scenes. Try watching something like Signs and the light spill will be more noticable while watching.

You will have my recommendation on Monday:)

"And you are sure this isn't having any negative effect on the actual image, right?"

Well, that depends on who wants to judge. :) You know what I mean?

I put up a white field and A-B'd it. Then I put up a couple of images off a DVD I had and A-B'd it and if anything, I would say the whites stayed the same and maybe if I fudged a bit I could say the blacks got just a bit blacker but, heck that is so subjective. For all practical purposes, the image looks the same. I'm not in the habit of making a big deal over hair splitting.

Now the difference in my mood light pattern is significant on the ceiling. That crescent pattern made a big out of place mar in the lights streams pattern I had created and now it's back to the way I had it before TV3. :)

What I did takes all but 5 minutes. The reason I did not use the lens cap is I wanted to keep it intact until I find a replacement. Then I may cut one up.

After an hour of a white field on the screen the tape was just above room temperature so I am not worried about solar effect on heat buildup. The blockage of the spill area is not a significantly bright light. Now had I put a lens cap on while that white field was up I think it could do some heat damage,. probably to the plastic cap. What ever you do, I would make sure you do not use a white card or white reflective back into the lens as that may affect contrast ratio. Keep your matte as flat black as possible. I would think you would want it to be light eating, not reflective.

Yours is upgraded if you can feed it 720P or 1080i and see a picture. The non-upgraded units just output static with these feeds.

This is not necessarily true. Some non-upgraded TV3s will do 720P and 1080i with DVI. I get all scan rates with the DVI out on a Sony HD200, although I sometimes get a bit of static at the top of the picture when changing scan rates.

I'm having no luck getting into the service menu to do my Avia setup. Can someone help me with this? The codes just get me to a DVI input when I hit 0.


-kraig

scottsol, is the Sony HDCP compliant? I think the D1 will work with the non-upgraded TV3s since it is not HDCP compliant.

kraig, I have the same problem trying to get into the service codes.

Are you guys using the original remote. I had problems learning the codes into my MX700. Once I learned it properly I set up a macro and it has worked fine ever since.

-sonny

I think an accurate test to be sure you have the new board, and it works, is to test DirecTV channel 201 and see if you get a picture.

Another test is the new Samsung 931, it requires HDCP encrypted display devices, if you can pass 720p and/or 1080i to your TV3, you're in business.

My dealer tested both the above methods on my TV3 before he shipped it to me.

Also, if you call Dwin and give them the serial number I'm sure they can tell you if it has the new board and what firmware version you have.


On another subject:

I find Dwin to be an excellent support company, I have called them several times and usually get through on my first call, and if I don't, they always get back to me that day.

As an example:

Apparently my PJ got bounced around during shipment, and the optical alignment was moved, causing a small yellow light glow at the bottom of the screen.

I called Dwin and they said I could send it in for a fix or they would be happy to walk me through the optical re-alignment over the phone, that is if I was comfortable with doing that.

I was, so I dropped the PJ from the ceiling, placed it on a table, took the cover off, armed myself with a 2.5 mm Allen Wrench and then called Rodger who was not available at the time.

Five minutes later, the phone rang and it was Rodger, and in less than ten minutes he instructed me on how to re-align the optical path. It was a piece of cake and the PJ is perfect now.

I'm really glad I didn't send it in, my guess is many companies wouldn't have done that, they would have required the PJ to be returned for repair.

That's definitely the type of thing I like to hear regarding support from a smaller company.

The fact you didn't have to send it in is a huge advantage. Sending back a new projector would have really been depressing.

More reports on light spill-

After using my fix on the lens to rid the ceiling crescent for a couple of days I discovered more problems with additional light spill that I previously not noticed. It's not totally in the dark yet! The crescent was bright enough that it overpowered this secondary spill but now with that gone I can see this when the scene is very dark on the screen. When it is normal average brightness the secondary spillage is completely over powered.

What this looks like is a faint glow above the projector where some light seems to be coming from all the way around the perimeter of the case. We all knew about the back spill from the air exhaust but this is about 1/3 brightness as that and is from the front and two sides.

Is this a serious problem? Of Course not! It is just an area to tweak for a better installation. In my travels, I have noticed one projector that seemed to be completely clear of all light spillage and that was the Yamaha I plan to take a closer look next time I see this Yamaha to see what is different. Maybe I just didn't see the spillage and it was there. Those rooms were all black so that may be the solution.

I just traded up from a Yamaha LPX-500. It had no light spill at all. Sure the picture is better on the TV3 but that is one of only a few things that it wins in head to head. Fortunately it is the most important thing. As for the Yamaha DPX models I have to assume they don't spill light either?

The TV3 projector housing seems a little half ass to me, especially in comparison to the LPX. It is nothing pretty to look at, run of the mill plastic and as we all know wins no awards for it's exacting tolerance (light spill). My only other gripe is the noise. I'm damn surprised that this unit couldn't be quiter since all of the connector circuits are moved to the controller.

All this being said I'm pleased, thank god for the great picture.

-kraig

I do have to agree with the noise issue. Definitely not the quietest unit around. It's a little louder than a (properly working) Sharp 10k, and a little quieter than the InFocus 7200.

I don't have a problem with the housing...I think it looks cool in the blue.

My order for the DWIN goes in this week!

:)

Not good.

I bought my DVI cable for my D1 to the DWIN from Pacific Cable as well. I did get the dual link though...not sure if that make a difference (I doubt it).

Rob -

I assume the dual link cable works OK (doesn't have the extra pins)

Dennis

If it does work, I lucked out because I thought that either the dual link or single link would work with the Dwin. This is the first that I have heard that it doesn't.

Thank goodness the Pacific Cable is cheap. Maybe they will give you credit if you buy a dual link cable from them?

It fits my D1 but doesn't fit my TV3. The cable has two pins above and below the bar, but both the TV3's inputs have no pin holes above or below the bar.

It looks like you have a DVI-I cable. Get a DVI-D (single or dual link is OK) and you'll be fine.

I will order the dual link cable (DVI-D), unless someone else had a suggestion

Good call Scott.

I can confirm that the dual link DVI-D(male to male) works on the TV3(I am using one now(Radeon 7500 to Dwin TV3 via DVI), and I just ordered another to use with my Zenith HD520 box that I just ordered).

DVI looks great on this machine!

I spoke to support at Dwin regarding the single or dual link choice. As suspected they support single link and not the dual. You can buy the dual link but if your paying any significant $$ for the option don't waste your money. I also confirmed with Zenith and the folks at V Inc. that their devices support single link and not dual. I just used a couple of dvi-d single cables from work. Over the last few years a lot of flat panels have been put on desktops still using the vga cable. 50 or more of these flat panels came with an extra dvi-d single link cable and these have accumulated in a box. These have worked fine for both the Zenith Sat520 and the Bravo D1.

In short you want DVI-D single link cables.

Just got done watching Unfaithful. Quiet movie. Great picture, gotta build a box around this noisy thing....

Any ideas on the box?

-kraig

Hush Box (http://www.whisperflow.com/) .

Not exactly cheap though (or particularly good looking).

One more thing on the single link/dual link cable, a question really.. what devices do use the dual link? I've yet to come across one.

-kraig

Thanks Rob. Nice boxes, hefty prices. I'll probably spec something and have a metal shop fabricate it. If I go with a brushed sheetmetal it could contain some light as well. Probably cost $150.


-kraig

No prob Kraig.

Looking at that site again, I wonder if those boxes would work with the Dwin mount since it is so flush with the ceiling?

Yeah I thought the same thing. It would be nice to buy something off the shelf. I wonder if the AVScience folks here sell something?

Guys,
I think you would need to 86 that mount(at least thats what it looks like in the pic.

Good picture Fred. Did you find that off their website?

Man, that hushbox looks like a very distracting, ugly contraption. Even if it worked with the Dwin, I dont know that I would want it even if it was free!

Sorry I suggested in the first place!

That hush box is visually loud! Sorry, don't mean to offend anyone but I would be hard pressed to see this in any room decor.

This is just an idea for those who may wish to fabricate something...

If I may assume that the majority of the noise is eminating from the fan exhaust in the back of the projector where we also have the rear light spill, how about killing two birds with one stone here.

Let's make a long flat funnel shaped (triangular) duct transition to a round pipe that extends up to the ceiling anf through a hole in the ceiling- exhausting into the attic or somewhere outside the room. The long flat funnel would be pressed up against the exhaust opening along the back of the projector where the air escapes. To prevent too much pressure drop in the duct, be sure the dia of the duct has a cross sectional area just greater than the cross sectional area of the projector opening. This may remove most of the noise and all of the light spill. It may also help keep the room cooler as you would not be exhausing hot air into the room. Well maybe this is not a problem for those living north of the FLA GA state line. :)
Anyway, can you visuallize this? I think this could be made with far less work and less visually distracting than that huge plastic highschool shop project.

Sounds like a good idea to me Don. The actual building of this item may not be that easy though (especially for someone who is not particularly mechanical, like me!).

What material would you make this duct out of?

Most likely, PVC but I would want to browse the Home Depot store for awhile. While I could try this my problem would be more complicated as I don't have a really good place to exhaust the hot air to. May be possible here but I'd need to investigate where the space between the ceiling rafters goes. I don't think most have this problem so I decided to post the idea. I just didn't like the looks of that huge plastic eyesore in my HT.

does anyone see much of a difference between 480 and 720 with dvi?

720p is much sharper than 480p on my unit, could be because you are feeding the Dwin native resolution.

Regarding the vent option. Many of us have a room where there is nowhere to vent the Dwin to, having a second floor above and a solid wall behind. The unit could be vented back into the living space through a tube lined with foam to kill the noise, with a fan on the end of the tube to push/pull the air.

I like the ducting idea.

I have 20 inches of gap between my drop ceiling and the bottom of the floor above it. What I'm trying to figure out is what to cover the intake with and then duct it through the ceiling. The duct and ceiling part would be no problem. Not sure what to use to cover the exhaust and/or intakes?

Ideas?

-kraig

Originally posted by Don Landis
What this looks like is a faint glow above the projector where some light seems to be coming from all the way around the perimeter of the case. We all knew about the back spill from the air exhaust but this is about 1/3 brightness as that and is from the front and two sides.

Don, this light spill sounds very strange to me. I can't even think of where this light is coming from. Sounds a little like your projector cover is not on right. I've put the cap on my projector to make sure where all the light was coming from. The only spill I saw was out the rear vent, though you did say this third spill is very dull. Can you tell where your light spill described above is coming from?

Hello all,
In no small part to your comments, I am adding a TV3 to my theater room. I have not yet seen this projector. I was totally sold on the pq of the Runco vx1000; but in my setup (as I have no means of video switching anything but S video), the Runco would have necessitated an external switcher of some kind. I will get to see the TV3 sometime this week and hopefully have it installed later this month.

I am concerned regarding the number of posts describing dust in the projector. This is not something I would want to mess with. Fred and Don included links to the Whsperflow hushbox and although the clear acrylic model is "visually loud"(!), the fact that it can include an optically clear AR coated glass lens cap as well as filter media for the intake and exhaust would probably reduce the incidence of dust blobs. In addition the Whisperflow site states that the box can be painted to any desired color.

Perhaps I should post this in a separate thread, but I would love to see how the painted hushbox looks. Along with the pj install, I am remodeling my theater room - my wife insists on replacing my furniture from my college days (oh the horror!) - and we want a cool looking theater room.

Also, has anyone sent their projectors to Dwin for the light spill fix? I'll ask my dealer to get this fixed prior to install.

Thanks a ton for all your insights.

AGN
Frequently wrong, but never in doubt.

Rooney,

I'd like to clarify a few things I've said here..

The TV3 does spill out light. For me both in the front and back of the projector. I think we're all bitching about it here because for the money you spend on this hardware you wouldn't expect it. I'll design some sort of hush box that will contain the light and the sound. Would I not buy this projector because of the light spill? Heck no. The postives far out weigh the negatives. Here is my list:

Positive:

• Inputs (10), especially 2 dvi & 2 component, no projector can touch this.
• Single cable to projector, again no projector can touch this.
• Picture quality, isn't this what it's all about? It is as good as any of the 2 chip DLP's.

Negative:

• Light spill
• Noise
• Dust issues

All the negatives are fairly easy to remedy, I think. My TV3 had a dust blotch on the lense out of the box so I called Dwin and Roger told me to remove the six screws and blow the lense with compressed air. I did and it took care of it. A hush box and some filtering will take care of the light spill, noise and dust. So I'm not too concerned about these negatives.

How about the rest of you TV3 slaves? Any positives, negatives?

-kraig

Here is the single biggest negative about the Dwin TV3....by far:


I don't have one yet!

However, this negative, as big as it is, can also be remedied rather easily....and will be!

:)

I just had a hushbox completed and it works very well to eliminate all the noise coming from the exhaust fan.

It was constructed as a box type design that fits up snugly against my ceiling. The inside is insulated with sound deadening material. The "box" is rimmed with a trim piece to give it a decent look (so the wife isn't too mad). Let me know and I will be happy to provide a picture.

The inside of the box allows for airflow (exhaust) to go up through a hole in the ceiling to the attic to vent. This has worked great in keeping the projector completely silent. The front of the box has a hole for intake and another for the lense. The lense is set back an inch or so and much of the light spill is contained within the box. There is still some light present on the white ceiling, but nothing to ditract from the overall picture on the screen.

The box was completed by a friend and couldn't cost more than a hundred dollars or so. The box is also textured and painted to match the ceiling in an effort to blend in. So far so good. No one seems to really notice a projector until I point it out. (this is in a living room that doubles as a movie room)

Right now the TV3 has answered all my hopes for a great projector and with the husbox, its very quiet.

Bjake

Pictures???

Love to see some pics.

I called the local Tap plastics and they can put a 20x20x8 shoe box and lid together for me for about $150. I think I'll do it for $40 with some wood and stop being so lazy.

I'll take some tonight and put them on tomorrow. Nothing real exciting, just a wood box, textured and painted white to match the room. But it sure makes the room quiet. No more fan noise during quiet movies.

Bjake

One more thing on the single link/dual link cable, a question really.. what devices do use the dual link? I've yet to come across one.

The dual link allows resolutions of 1080P X 1920 and higher, so it doesn't have much use currently in the consumer video world.

A lot of people are getting their cables from Pacific Cable where a 1meter dual link is a whopping $1 more than the single link.

Just my own opinion of the question of the day...

Biggest negative- It uses an expensive bulb that has a relatively high run cost per hour. Don't know what that is yet but that is my biggest fear, ie fear of the unknown. Hopefully it won't be such a big deal.

Noise- Not a problem for me because I can't hear it when I'm using the TV3. I don't listen to the TV3 when I'm not using it. What this means is, I have an adequate sound system with plenty of volume that is never drowned out by the TV3 FAN noise. All I can say is you people that hear the TV3 running above your program sound are in dire need of a bigger sound system! :D

LIght spill- MIne solved with the matte and a back deflector for the back spill. Very simple solutions for not so annoying problem.

Dust? So far, I haven't had this problem.


Also, just for clairfication on the two box system. Some of you may be trying to claim that the Dwin projectors are the only two box solution. Not so. It is just that with other projectors you generally have a choice as to what feed you will use from your rack mounted scaler while the Dwin gives you only two options. TV2 is RGBHV cable and the YV3 is DVI cable. The other projectors will have a whole host of electronics support and you just have to purchase your scaler switcher separately. Thus any projector is really a two box capable system. I know this because before I discovered the Dwin, I was planning another DLP or DILA and I had in my budget figgured for a scaler/ switcher and a single cable feed (DVI or RGBHV).

I think the most phenominal aspect of the Dwin is the standard definition picture quality. Heck, all the HD2 PJ's look good on HDTV but just a few stand above the rest in their ability to make SD look better than I have ever seen before. To me, that is the biggest plus of this TV3.

When I watch action or sci-fi movies the noise of the TV3 isn't a problem, even with the volume at a low to moderate level. Now bring the wifey down for a foreign flick or some quiet love story type movie and the TV3 noise becomes far too apparent. Watch "In the Bedroom", good movie, very quiet. It doesn't matter how far I turn up the sound on a movie like that since quiet is quiet. Our HT is completely soundproof and dead quiet. Perhaps in a room with ambient sound the TV3 noise matters less?

"Don, this light spill sounds very strange to me. I can't even think of where this light is coming from. Sounds a little like your projector cover is not on right. I've put the cap on my projector to make sure where all the light was coming from. The only spill I saw was out the rear vent, though you did say this third spill is very dull. Can you tell where your light spill described above is coming from?"

Sorry- I overlooked your question-
Yes, I have lots of light spill from the front around the lens but that faint light polution on the ceiling seems to be from light leakage around the DVI connector and the power plug socket as well as the front vent. When I get more time, I'll pull the projector down and seal up those leaks. Should be fairly simple. At that time I will add a dust grabbing air screen. These are washable screens or highly open cell foam that grab dust and are often found on airconditioners on the air intake.

I do agree with all who have stated that for the money, Dwin could have done a better job on the case to stop these sloppy looking leaks.

kraigk, Don, et. al,
I didn't mean to turn this into a DWIN pro/con discussion. You're preaching to the choir regarding the virtues of this machine. As someone on this thread stated earlier, there is no perfect pj. But this one is right for me. I'd like to work around some of its idiosyncrasies and that is why I brought up the hushbox. Have any of you TV3 owners used this as a solution for the dust issue?

Noise reduction is a secondary concern for me. I have a good set of speakers and electronics to drown out sound, but during quiet passages, I don't want to hear the pj. Also, I would think that the hushbox would eliminate the light spill you have mentioned.

Thanks.
AGN

Has anybody received their new HDCP board yet??

Just spoke to Roger yesterday - boards will not be out for another week or so - They'll be sent to dealers, who will then pass them on from there. Supposedly the swap is easy to do and can be performed by the end-user in the field.

Don-

You don't even want to hear my ongoing horror story with DWIN, they are a dime away from loosing my business entirely... unbelivable that my DEMO unit looks worse than any of the ones I installed in the field... after I overnighted it back for a clear optical defect..

I was pretty amused, that when Josh and I first posted on the DWIN, as we were some of the first to install them in the field... our complaints with light leakage...and the responses we recieved...

I can say that it does seem to vary from batch to batch... But either way, the d#@n thing is advertised with NO LIGHT LEAK... its is flat out false.. period.

My scaler which does have the new board in it...sorry guys... but it was an attempt to pacify me is doing weird things on DVD's that I know are good... shifting the picture to the right a few pixels...

The PJ now looks as though it has a border the entire way around the frame... its really weird...

They got another 2 weeks (LOL) to sort it out.. I am so frustrated...

-ADS-

Is the new board going to have updated firmware for the too blue fix as well? Will there be any other updates with the HDCP fix?

Thanks,
Sonny

Thomas,

Monday has come and gone. What's up with the D1 vs the 931? ;)

After reading the shootout in the DVD hardware section, it sounds like the D1 is the way to go. Just thought I'd see what you've found since I'm in the same boat. I have both at my house, but want to keep one. The Samsung has already been open. The D1 is still sealed.

d4lions,

I too have a border around the screen, more of a black matte with a faint line around the OUTSIDE of the border. Is that what you're talking about? I also have a yellowish blue "glow" at the bottom left of my screen. Not sure what that's all about. I'm going to have my dealer look at it when I get the chance.

My room is still under construction, but I have managed to hang the TV3 mount in my equipment room. I also cut an 8" x 8" hole in the wall for the DWIN to project out of. And of course, I had to make sure the opening was big enough, so I fired it up and voila! it works! I'll have no light leakage in the room and will have made my own hush box by keeping the projector in the equipment room. I can't wait to finish this project!

Chris

Thomas,

Monday has come and gone. What's up with the D1 vs the 931?

Yeah, I was kind of wondering that myself!

Just spoke to Roger yesterday - boards will not be out for another week or so - They'll be sent to dealers, who will then pass them on from there. Supposedly the swap is easy to do and can be performed by the end-user in the field.

You mean to say that people who have the old boards still have not had them swapped out?! I thought that was suppose to have been taken care of several weeks ago?

It has been confirmed that all new Dwin's have the properly working HDCP chip in them.

Hi guys,

Sorry for the delay, I forgot I was going to be at an off-site with my IT team yesterday.

I'll make this short and sweat. I recommend you read Ernie's review of the D1 and 931 in the DVD section that Chris mentioned above, very informative piece and in most cases I agree with Ernie's findings.

However, after many hours of comparisons and using both units I really can't see an EE problem on the 931, both units look fantastic, both are a cut above my Sony 9000.

Also, the audio was killer on both units (no issue with the D1), I listened to DD and DTS ES via Toslink and they sounded every bit as good as my Sony. I struggled with the setup a bit on the Bravo, but resolved my problems and was able to capture Digital sound once I set it up properly (i.e. key board driver issue - me).

In the end of the day, I actually prefered the 931 because of the user menu (cleaner setup IMO), the remote control (the D1 remote is very poor, and often requires many repeat pushes to work), and the cosmetics on the 931 look better to me as well. Very minor differences, but just my preference.

Either unit will serve you well, and there really isn't a clear winner in my mind, I just prefer the 931.

A few other considerations:
As Ernie noted in his review, the HDCP issue can be a problem for non-compliant PJ's, my PJ has the new board so it's not a problem for myself, and I'm sure everyone else on this thread who owns a TV3 will get the new board, if you haven't already done so.

Also, regarding non-anamorphic material I would agree with Ernie, the D1 is superior here. I will use the D1 for this purpose when needed. However, this is an area I seldom visit in my HT.

With that said, I intend to keep both units so I have a back up. The nice part of these DVD's is their very thin, stacked on top of each other they take about the same space as my very hefty Sony 9000.

So, hope this helps and the good news is; which ever one you buy, you won't be disappointed.

However, after many hours of comparisons and using both units I really can't see an EE problem on the 931, both units look fantastic, both are a cut above my Sony 9000.

I certainly didn't see any problems with the 931 adding Edge Enhancement when I was there either. The 931 looked great.

I did decide to go with the Bravo though, basically because of the issue that you mentioned with the 931 and it's handling (or lack thereof) of 4:3 material.

My Bravo D1 is scheduled to arrive via FedEx today. Too bad I don't have anything to hook it to yet! :(

Right, the D1 will look great sitting on your shelf!!!!

Why don't you put a DVD in it so it feels better.:)

I spent some time, this past weekend, with both the BRAVO, and the SAMSUNG, DVI, equiped units. I dont have time,for in depth comparison,here, however, i dont find these units to be any kind of "break thru", etc. Yes they are priced attractively, and yes, they do alow for an all digital path. I am just not seeing the kind of mega improvement that many have posted here, and in the DVD FORUM.

I used both a DWIN TV3, with the bravo, and a NEC 1000HT, with both the SAMSUNG, and the BRAVO. While i personally felt that the bravo offered a some what cleaner, looking picture than the SAMSUNG,(SAMSUNG definately had EE,and a grainer looking picture),over all,neither unit was better than the MARANTZ 8400, with interlaced output, to either projector. The MARANTZ also has a dvi out,but the output isnt active at the moment.

I think that some of the better DVD players on the market, can do quite well, with out a DVI OUT PUT. Perhaps, when i get more time to spend with the SAMSUNG, and BRAVO, my opinion will change, but for the moment, i definately prefer the MARANTZ 8400, in its interlaced mode, versus dvi from either the BRAVO, or the SAMSUNG.

Thanks guys for the update!

I guess I'll just have to crack open that D1 box and give it a run for myself.

That Marantz 8400 does sound like an impressive unit. It has SACD capability, and from what you're stating and what I've seen the DVI port will be activated soon. At about $1,400 though, I'll wait until more DVI players come out from the other big boys and make a decision then. For now, an under $300 player with excellent video playback will suit me fine for now.

Now, I saw the complaint thread about the 931 and I am wondering about the "HDCP Handshake" problem, ie picture "stuttering" at points. I can say I have seen this a couple of times while previewing my TV3. I just thought it might be the disc, but I couldn't get the same part to repeat. After reading the "handshake" issue (not to mention unplugging the DVI port while it's active to make 1080i work...which FYI I WILL NOT be doing!) it makes me wonder if that's what caused it. The D1 may resolve this problem. I also noticed that the "snow" on 1080i looks similar to the "grain" I've seen on dark passages on some DVDs I've tried. When paused, I can see faint "snow" that sparkles in dark areas. Not sure what's up with that. I'm not taking anything to the bank just yet becuase it's not properly calibrated (AVIA) or setup (room still under construction). I'll let everyone know how it runs when my room is complete.

Thomas,

Can you do a check for me on something? Take two DVDs and throw one into each player. Find a scene (I've used Fifth Element and Episode 2) where there is light and dark areas on the screen at the same time (ie Leeloo in the regeneration chamber) and hit pause. Go up to the screen and see if you can see that "snow" or sparklies that I am referring to. Switch between players and see if it does the same thing. I'm going to give it a shot tonight when I get home.

Thanks!

Chris

Hi all,
I don't have the TV3 yet but extremely interested in owning one and have been following this thread since day one. I want to thanks all here to having this wonderful thread. Anyway, I talked to Jeff at Dwin yesterday regarding the light spill problem discussed here and he said that the problem is now fixed and all TV3 shipped yesterday will not have this problem due to the new "gasket" installed by the projector Len. Though I want to share this here.

Tony

Interesting -Roger in tech support did not seem to know anything about it - he said that the light spill through the front and back was "normal". Since it really does not bother me too much I did not press on it.....

I have defined the following sources of light spill from my TV3.

1. Crescent shaped coming from through the lens.
I have this fixed.

2. General spill from the power plug between the case and the plug receptacle. I plan to fix this later.

3. Same as #2 but with the DVI jack.

4. Next to the DVI jack, a split in the case has light shining through.
I plan to fix this when I do #2 and #3.

5. The front air intake grill spills light. Not sure I will fix this but I do plan to install some type of dust filter on this intake grill.

6. The area around the lens between the main cabinet and lens barrel. I think Dwin considers this the sole source of their light spill problem. I believe the main light spill problem is the crescent spill from the lens glass and no sealing outside the barrel will fix the crescent projected on the ceiling. There may be additional spillage from this region but I have found all these 2-6 to be very minor and only to be bothered with if striving for perfection. Additionally, I only see 2-6 spills when the scene is very dark as the brighter screen scenes overpower the room and these light spills from 2-6 are not noticeable.

7. Back exhaust grill. A simple deflector similar to my matte on the lens has completely eliminated this light spill BUT, I have a small warning on this. The way I did this deflector also reflects the fan noise down to where I sit as well as the hot air, so I removed it and left the spill of light back up on the ceiling behind the projector. Lessor of two evils and I can certainly live with that small light. I can't live with the hot air and, well, the noise was boosted considerably by my handy-work so I got rid of it. Hey, some of my ideas are terrible. This was one of them. I only posted it in case some of you were thinking of doing the same and would hate to see you repeat my failure.

:)

Would anyone with these players test them for DVD-R compatibility for me?

Just let me know if they will play DVD-R disks. Not interested in +R or RW or RAM, just DVD-R


Thanks

Regarding the D1 and 931:

I think one of the key points here is that these inexpensive DVI/DVD products will easily stand up to very high end conventional DVD's on the video quality side of the equation, at a fraction of the price, and in many cases, as noted in this forum (myself included), will produce a better picture. This was the case with both my Sony 9000 and Panasonic RP91.

Was the difference night and day? Of course not, but the PQ was better on the DVI units, and I could see it. Gee, low priced excellent solutions, what a concept. Oh well, there goes the neighborhood, and the juicy Margins :)

Another factor may be my very large screen size (133" diag), it's easy to see noise and other flaws in PQ on my size screen, so any improvement is also more noticeable.


Chris,

I'll see if I can take a look tonight, or later in the week, no promises though, I have a tight schedule this week.

I look forward to your comments on the two units after you view the Bravo.

Don,

Ernie noted in his review that each company had disclosures on DVD-R.

Samsung says they may or may not play on the 931 depending on recording conditions.

V states the D1 is compatible.

I really didn't test them, I'll give it a pass in the next few days, my son burns lots of DVD's and my wife makes custom family movies and picture shows, so I have several that I can use for testing the units.

Thanks, Tom

Just so you know- DVD-R seems most compatible at the less than maximum bit rate. Panasonic calls it XP mode for the highest bit rate and this, sometimes is not handles well on some players. DVD-R recorded at the 2 hour mode per 4.7 G seems the most ideal for compatibility.
My interest is that I, too have a need to play DVD-R in my home theater system so if the Samsung or the bravo can't do them then I will wait for a DVI player that will. I recall what Ernie said about DVD-R "disclosure" but didn't recall the details.