Right now, they have the thick cabling in spools hanging from the main drop points off the poles. I don't know what they're going to do. They would have to run something up to each unit because they obviously can't use existing phone wiring in the condo units. Cox did this last summer when they installed a clean digital line to each unit's utility closet. Owners were then responsible for running cable from there to their existing drops or getting new structrured wiring run through the unit.

When you get an install cost for your condo, Please let us know.

FYI, if you go with Satellite (Direct or Dish) they DO NOT offer NESN in HD, thus no Red Sox HD. You better off sticking with Cox HD.

Can't speak for Dish, but DirecTV does offer NESNHD as of 7/18/06. You must have the H20 (MPEG$ capable) receiver and the AT9 MPEG4 Dish.

Question for those of you who have DirecTV (in the North Kingstown, RI area or close to it) .... I am one of many dissastified COX users. And I too am fed up with high rates and no CBS/FOX HD. So, I am looking for a better deal.

I have many large oak trees around my house that are positioned between the station antennas and my house (according to anntennaweb.org) So OTA reception may not work. (Am I wrong?)

However, in snooping around various DirecTV web sites, I cannot find a quick and easy list of what DirectTCV offers as a comparison to COX HD. Moreover, I cannot find anything about DirecTV HD service, if it exists at all. Can I get HD DVR? Can someone give me a quick lesson on this or point me to some web sites that actually provide me with program line-up information or comparisons? Seems like DirecTV is hiding something. The DirecTV web sites I have visited are useless.

Question for those of you who have DirecTV (in the North Kingstown, RI area or close to it) .... I am one of many dissastified COX users. And I too am fed up with high rates and no CBS/FOX HD. So, I am looking for a better deal....


If you are in North Kingstown, Verison has targeted your town to be one of the first in the State to offer TV channels according to ProJo. If I were you, I'd consider myself lucky and wait a little while just to have more info and choice.

If you are having frustration now with Direct TV, what do you think it will be like once you have signed a long term contract with them???

I'd never go with satelllite. I can't stand how the signal drops from bad weather and other environmental factors. A terrestrial, wired network is the only way to go. Cox and Fios will soon be going head-to-head, and Cox will lose in this state.

Noticed MHD was online for Cox yesterday (7/26) on channel 730. PQ was exceptional for the Chilli Peppers concert they aired last night. Random videos look as expected. Wish they'd get ESPN2/FX/Fox/CBS sorted out before bringing this stuff on board.

I need to verify the D* NESNHD thingy. That makes me a very happy D* subscriber. I have the H20, so how do I view it?

I'd never go with satelllite. I can't stand how the signal drops from bad weather and other environmental factors. A terrestrial, wired network is the only way to go. Cox and Fios will soon be going head-to-head, and Cox will lose in this state.

That's a common stereotype and repeated misconception. You've either never had satellite or had a poor install.

If you have a clear view to place a dish to point south west and have it probably installed then there are very few signal issues if any at all. In fact a side by side comparison of Comcast and DirecTV in my area has cable having outages on the order of 1-2 every few months and they usually last hours. I cannot remember the last time we had a DirecTV outage that lasted more than 2 minutes. Even then I think it was last fall that that happened. 9 maybe 10 months ago.

But YMMV

I need to verify the D* NESNHD thingy. That makes me a very happy D* subscriber. I have the H20, so how do I view it?

You need to be in the Boston DMA (local market) and have the 5 LNB dish. If you have the 3 LNB dish OR are in the Providence market, NESN-HD is not availabe to your *yet* on D*.

I have the 5 LNB dish but am in the Providence market, so no NESNHD? What about just the games? If no, then that really sucks... BUT... we'll have them by next year.... or this fall/winter (Bruins).

Still better than Cox with no 64 and 12 in HD.

So you're saying that in a weather event with heavy precipitation, you don't lose signal? Every one of my friends who have DirecTV or other satellite provider says this is a clear drawback of satellite. DirecTV still admits to it being a problem on their website and in their set-top box help section.

Line of sight is lost with heavy precipitation, and you'll get MPEG pixelation or just signal drop. Heck, I was at a Ruby Tuesday restaurant (with no trees around) this weekend and they lost signal with one of the heavy thunderstorms overhead.

I'll stick with my wired network. thx.

That's a common stereotype and repeated misconception. You've either never had satellite or had a poor install.

If you have a clear view to place a dish to point south west and have it probably installed then there are very few signal issues if any at all. In fact a side by side comparison of Comcast and DirecTV in my area has cable having outages on the order of 1-2 every few months and they usually last hours. I cannot remember the last time we had a DirecTV outage that lasted more than 2 minutes. Even then I think it was last fall that that happened. 9 maybe 10 months ago.

But YMMV

BTW, Fios installation is still in progress at my condo unit. They have not yet run the cabling to the buildings yet. It's still spooled up on the poles.

That's a common stereotype and repeated misconception. You've either never had satellite or had a poor install.

If you have a clear view to place a dish to point south west and have it probably installed then there are very few signal issues if any at all. In fact a side by side comparison of Comcast and DirecTV in my area has cable having outages on the order of 1-2 every few months and they usually last hours. I cannot remember the last time we had a DirecTV outage that lasted more than 2 minutes. Even then I think it was last fall that that happened. 9 maybe 10 months ago.

But YMMV

Not to nitpick but where does this information regarding cable outages come from? In the 20+ years that I have been a cable subscriber I have never had a "cable outage" event, nor have I ever heard through word of mouth about a "cable outage" from friends/family etc. I have however heard plenty of word of mouth feedback regarding rain fade from both friends and family who chose to use satelite feeds instead of land line cable.

Not to nitpick but where does this information regarding cable outages come from? In the 20+ years that I have been a cable subscriber I have never had a "cable outage" event, nor have I ever heard through word of mouth about a "cable outage" from friends/family etc. I have however heard plenty of word of mouth feedback regarding rain fade from both friends and family who chose to use satelite feeds instead of land line cable.

These comparisons are being a bit extreme on both sides. Having had cable (Comcast) and now DirecTV, I can say that neither one is perfect. We've had our DirecTV signal go away briefly during very heavy rain or snow (we've had to brush snow off the dish a few times to get the signal back), but I don't recall ever losing the signal for more than a brief period. We also had plenty of cable TV outages when we had that and when it happened it was usually for a lot longer than a few minutes. Keep in mind that a wired system isn't exactly immune from a car, truck, or storm knocking a telephone pole over and killing your cable (and internet) connection potentially for hours or days.

RI COX HD DVR box model #?

i just got my box yesterday.

Does anyone know what the model # is? Its the one with a DVI port. I need it for programming my harmony remote.

thanks.

Does anyone know what the model # is? Its the one with a DVI port. I need it for programming my harmony remote.

thanks.

Should be the Motorola 6412. Lots of information on this web site in other fourms about that model. Or you can Google that model and get owner's manual download (PDF). Check it out.

EDIT - I should have mentioned that I have had my DVR now for almost a year and a half. I am making an assumption that Cox has not changed the model manufacturer and model number. That said, I think Mototola 6412 is right.

Why is it again that local Fox affiliate WNAC-DT can't figure out when to flip the switch? It's bad enough that Fox only shows HD baseball during playoffs/world series but todays Sox/Angels game isn't even in widescreen because someone is asleep at the wheel over there.

All Cox Cable subscribers we need to take our fight for CBS and Fox in HD directly to LIN TV call the new CEO Vincent Sadusky LIN TV Corp. 401-454-2880. Let him know how many consumers he's hurting and more importantly how this will hurt his wallet.

Anyone located near North Kingstown, RI who could report on OTA reception of various HD stations serving Rhode Island?

I am contemplating an attic installation since I have run a new RG6U from the ground floor up two stories into the attic. My chimney is cracked in a few places and I am reluctant to install anything on it.

So you're saying that in a weather event with heavy precipitation, you don't lose signal? Every one of my friends who have DirecTV or other satellite provider says this is a clear drawback of satellite. DirecTV still admits to it being a problem on their website and in their set-top box help section.

Yeah and it's a problem...once, maybe twice a year maybe? (in a massively heavy downpour -- and I mean massively heavy for a period of a minute or so -- or a snowstorm where it sticks to the dish).

I've had a dish since 1995 and have loved every second of it. If it was that big of an issue I would have dropped it years back, especially if it was such a "clear drawback" like you indicate.

I've had very few periods of down time... a used to have it alot when I got my first dish, so D* sent a guy out to look at it. ... the dish was mounted on the side of the house, not on the roof... so since it's been on the roof the only downtime I've had was during a "white out" with blizzard conditions... and it didn't last too long.... either.... 5 years with D* so far.

Also here is the email received from station manager at WNAC and WPRI regarding the Cox vs. LIN TV issue. Please email him your concerns, we need to make our voices heard. His name is Jay Howell and he can be reached at
Dear Mr. McDevitt,
LIN Television has been unable to come to an agreement with Cox to
allow
them to put WPRI-DT and WNAC-DT on Cox. I am hopeful that we will be
able to come to an agreement soon, but I cannot honestly say that
progress has been made in negotiations. I hope you can understand that
we cannot allow Cox to resell our signals to you without fair
compensation. LIN Television is a Rhode Island company that is just
trying to get a fair deal from a multi billion dollar cable company
that
has enjoyed near monopoly conditions for decades. I hope you know that
WPRI and WNAC are available for free and are being broadcast at maximum
power. We have satisfied viewers as far away as Connecticut and north
of Boston. I would be happy to speak to you about this if you desire.
My direct telephone number is 401-228-1812.
Sincerely,
Jay Howell,
President and General Manager,
WPRI12/Fox Providence

I would not contact stations because they have absolutely no say in the matter. In my own personal experience complaining about this issue, both WPRI and WNAC have been very good at replying to my concerns with a customized, personal email or a phone call back (in the case of WPRI) from the station manager.

They aren't negotiating with Cox -- LIN Corporation is. I think calling the corporate offices of both companies is the best thing to do. IMO, the stations are doing what they can by broadcasting OTA in HD at full power.

I will add that Cox has a longstanding issue with taking a hard-line negotiating stance that hurts their customers (like me).

They're almost always the last to add channels like ESPN2 (analog back in the 90s) because they don't want to pay ESPN the standard per-customer rate. This is the same reason why ESPN2HD is still not available. Other cable/sat providers are able to find a successful balance and negotiate terms to carry these channels for their customers.

Cox says that they add channels based on customer requests and popularity. What could be more requested right now than ESPN2HD and the WPRI and WNAC channels in RI?? It's all about money. I almost side with LIN on this due to Cox' previous patterns of behavior.

Your $ is the best way to get Cox to listen. LEAVE THEM IF YOU CAN. If you can't I feel sorry for you. There are two solid satellite choices and 1 has NO COMMITTMENT if that's a concern. FIOS sounds good, but it's not in my 'hood yet.

Also, with the other D* provider, if you send in your equipment and tell them you are moving what are they going to do?

Your $ is the best way to get Cox to listen. LEAVE THEM IF YOU CAN. If you can't I feel sorry for you. There are two solid satellite choices and 1 has NO COMMITTMENT if that's a concern. FIOS sounds good, but it's not in my 'hood yet.

Also, with the other D* provider, if you send in your equipment and tell them you are moving what are they going to do?

I plan on switching all my services to FiOS as soon as they drop the glass to my house/condo... the lines are already spooled up from the poles in my neighborhood. I've noticed them hanging from poles in other communities like Narragansett near Bonnet Shores along 1A.

It's coming... Verizon's spending serious $ to make it work. It's now just months/weeks away.

Living in a condo complex that specifically bans anything on the outside of the building, satellite will never be an option. Only indoor OTA HD antennae will be permitted too.

Bring on FiOS!

Also here is the email received from station manager at WNAC and WPRI regarding the Cox vs. LIN TV issue. Please email him your concerns, we need to make our voices heard. His name is Jay Howell and he can be reached at
Dear Mr. McDevitt,
LIN Television has been unable to come to an agreement with Cox to
allow
them to put WPRI-DT and WNAC-DT on Cox. I am hopeful that we will be
able to come to an agreement soon, but I cannot honestly say that
progress has been made in negotiations. I hope you can understand that
we cannot allow Cox to resell our signals to you without fair
compensation. LIN Television is a Rhode Island company that is just
trying to get a fair deal from a multi billion dollar cable company
that
has enjoyed near monopoly conditions for decades. I hope you know that
WPRI and WNAC are available for free and are being broadcast at maximum
power. We have satisfied viewers as far away as Connecticut and north
of Boston. I would be happy to speak to you about this if you desire.
My direct telephone number is 401-228-1812.
Sincerely,
Jay Howell,
President and General Manager,
WPRI12/Fox Providence

I received the EXACT SAME RESPONSE from Jay Howell - so much for what I thought was a personal response.

It doesn't get more personal than a direct phone line and and an offer to talk anytime. How many times have you been offered the direct line for a manager at Cox??? Cox is all about PR people and call centers.

It doesn't get more personal than a direct phone line and and an offer to talk anytime. How many times have you been offered the direct line for a manager at Cox??? Cox is all about PR people and call centers.

I don't consider a stock answer personal, And I did call him and got his voice mail and no further reply.

Living in a condo complex that specifically bans anything on the outside of the building, satellite will never be an option. Only indoor OTA HD antennae will be permitted too.

I believe that you are incorrect about this. You can search other threads about the FCC rulings regarding satellite and OTA antennas. If you own the condo and put the antenna on part of the condo you own, I don't believe the condo association has the right to either prevent you from putting it up or making you take it down if you do.

It must be some part you own and not a common area, but I believe this has been the jist of what I've read.

OTOH, despite having been a D* subscriber for many years, I am considering FIOS once it's in my area only because I don't want an even bigger satellite antenna on the side of my house. The one downside of either cable or FIOS for me is that they will not provide HD from Boston. With the D* receivers I get OTA signals perfectly from Boston, and I much prefer the Boston stations for news.

SMK

I believe that you are incorrect about this. You can search other threads about the FCC rulings regarding satellite and OTA antennas. If you own the condo and put the antenna on part of the condo you own, I don't believe the condo association has the right to either prevent you from putting it up or making you take it down if you do.

Nope, the condo association controls the outside of the condo and I own the inside. It's very specifically stated in our Rules and Regulations...

For example, when they negotiated with Cox to run new clean digital lines to each unit, they made it clear that owners could not run wiring on the outside of the building to reach their desired rooms. Only through the attic or other structured wiring is permitted. The Association controls the outside appearance/presentation of the complex.

Anyway, FiOS is coming and we'll switch our internet and TV to them as soon as we can.

OTOH, despite having been a D* subscriber for many years, I am considering FIOS once it's in my area only because I don't want an even bigger satellite antenna on the side of my house.

..but, you mean you don't want the huge 5 LNB dish with a higher mast put on your roof? It's huge... it has the center mast and TWO supports that need to get bolted on. HUGE.

Latest email exchange, I sent this note to Cox, anyone have an update on the Verizon FIOS rollout?

Email:

There has been no change in the philosophy of WPRI/WNAC and LIN Television. We are committed to getting fair compensation from cable and satellite companies that resell our signal to our viewers. Satellite has always compensated LIN Television for the right to resell our signals, and Verizon is expected to do the same. You say that Cox is not charging you for HD but that is inaccurate. They are renting you a box in perpetuity, and they are “giving” you HD for free as a business decision to try to keep you from switching to satellite or Verizon down the road. That does not change the fact that cable companies pay for channels such as Animal Planet, Lifetime, etc. that have miniscule audience, but have used their monopoly power to avoid paying local broadcasters who represent over half of total audience on average. The cable monopoly is ending and local broadcasters need multiple revenue streams to survive in these competitive times. You may not realize this, but we pay CBS and FOX for the right to broadcast the NFL, NCAA Basketball, etc. Giving our extremely valuable local news, sports and entertainment is no longer an option for us. We have plans to broadcast our local news in HD in the future, and are excited about it. Our capital costs in equipment alone to make this transition to digital will be upwards of $10 million dollars.

When you talk to Cox, ask them why they are willing to pay money for so many cable channels that you probably never watch, but are unwilling to pay much less for WPRI12 and Fox Providence? I expect that we will have a fair agreement with Verizon before they launch in Cranston early next year. Why don’t you let Cox know that you would certainly consider switching to Verizon when it is available if they have the local stations in HD?



Thanks again for your note and please feel free to give me a call.



Jay Howell




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 11:42 AM
To: Jay Howell
Subject: Re: FW: General Comments



Mr. Howell,

Thank you for the response below. My concern is the change in philosophy as to how you wish to bring your product to consumers. Cable allows you to bring your stations into thousands of homes without the need for consumers to purchase additional equipment. The cost of this equipment is in excess of $300 for only 6 channels at the most. If I was only interested in receiving local channels I would drop cable, however I happen to enjoy ESPN, ESPN2, NESN (all of which are in HD). What troubles me is that LIN TV has decided to charge for the right to allow Cox to broadcast the HD channels, when Cox does not charge me to receive the HD channels, I have to rent an HD box for $9.99 per month (you would have me pay over $300 for only 6 channels), but I do not pay additional subscription charges for the HD service. The HD service provided by Cox currently provides 11 channels of programming I watch all for only the cost of $9.99. The reality is that consumers who have HD televisions in the Rhode Island market already subscribe to Cox Cable, my question to you is do you want these consumers to watch your stations? I say settlement the disagreement put your stations in HD and be dynamic, maybe broadcast the local news in HD, instead the approach seems to be a grudge match and the only ones losing are the consumers, your customers. Please realize that I am also asking these questions of Cox.

I expect that we will have a fair agreement with Verizon before they launch in Cranston early next year.


So FIOS is going to come to Cranston as well? Anyone know this for sure? I hear you guys further south talking about the lines being up. I can only hope that they come up here too. I'll have no problem switching over.

The more I research this subject, the more confused I'm getting. As a COX HD customer who's locked out of CBS and FOX HD, I am trying to rig an OTA antenna in an effort to receive CBS 12 and Fox 64 HD signals (for a new Panasonic plasma with a built in receiver).

Do I need a UHF or VHF OTA antenna? If I read various posts right, HD signals are really UHF (or do I have this wrong?). Some threads suggest that CBS 12 (which back in the age of rabbit ears, used to be considered VHF) is now really something different in the HDTV era.

The bottom line - I am beginning to think that an off-the-shelf Best Buy VHF/UHF/FM combo antenna is not going to work. I am 23. 2 miles from Fox 64.1 and 23.8 miles from CBS 12.1 (with oak trees in the way near my house). However, I have read where someone in southern RI and/or Mystic, CT is getting these stations with a simple Radio Shack antenna. Any guidance would be appreciated.

So FIOS is going to come to Cranston as well? Anyone know this for sure? I hear you guys further south talking about the lines being up. I can only hope that they come up here too. I'll have no problem switching over.

I believe I posted something about this earlier either in this thread or the FIOS hardware thread. I know someone very involved at Verizon with rolling out FIOS. He is on the hardware end of things and doesn't really know what will happen with providing differing services once the hardware is out, but this was his general comment about timing and areas. The first areas are parts of Warwick, West Warwick, and East Greenwich. From there, they were heading south towards North Kingstown, and then towards Narragansett. Then, they would start heading north to Cranston, Providence, North Providence, and Pawtucket. From there they would go towards Lincoln and Woonsocket and then eventually towards Barrington and the rest of the East Bay. The timetable was that they would be starting in Providence by the end of 2007, and they expected the entire state to be wired by the end of 2009.

Now, I haven't seen him recently. I don't know how on schedule they are, and I don't know if there have been any changes in the plans. I wouldn't expect FIOS service here in Pawtucket until 2008.

SMK

The more I research this subject, the more confused I'm getting. As a COX HD customer who's locked out of CBS and FOX HD, I am trying to rig an OTA antenna in an effort to receive CBS 12 and Fox 64 HD signals (for a new Panasonic plasma with a built in receiver).

Do I need a UHF or VHF OTA antenna? If I read various posts right, HD signals are really UHF (or do I have this wrong?). Some threads suggest that CBS 12 (which back in the age of rabbit ears, used to be considered VHF) is now really something different in the HDTV era.

The bottom line - I am beginning to think that an off-the-shelf Best Buy VHF/UHF/FM combo antenna is not going to work. I am 23. 2 miles from Fox 64.1 and 23.8 miles from CBS 12.1 (with oak trees in the way near my house). However, I have read where someone in southern RI and/or Mystic, CT is getting these stations with a simple Radio Shack antenna. Any guidance would be appreciated.

It should not be difficult for you to get either 12 or 64 if your TV has a built in receiver. You should use a UHF antenna. Yes, WPRI, Channel "12" is broadcasting on 13 which is technically a VHF station, but it is so close to the UHF spectrum that a UHF antenna will work fine. I was receiving it perfectly with a CM 4221 (although I actually use a different antenna now).

If you get a decent antenna from BB or RS, you should have no problems. I don't think you would need anything besides the antenna (such as an amplifier). You can even put your antenna in your attic, if that makes things easier. My antenna is a RS combo UHF/VHF just lying on the joists in my attic in Pawtucket. It is pointing towards Boston. I get perfect reception without an amplifier on all Boston and RI stations. The Boston transmitters are between 35 and 45 miles from my location.

SMK

According to the following link it looks like the PUC will begin public hearings in early October for the first srrvice areas effected. Go to the last item on the list, Travel & Procedural Schedule:

http://www.ripuc.org/utilityinfo/cabletv.html

Line of sight is lost with heavy precipitation, and you'll get MPEG pixelation or just signal drop. Heck, I was at a Ruby Tuesday restaurant (with no trees around) this weekend and they lost signal with one of the heavy thunderstorms overhead.

I'll stick with my wired network. thx.

So you've never personally had satellite then? Glad you here you're happy with your wires. But the "clear drawback of satellite" isn't so clear all the people who are customers of the service. Wired technology has it negatives as well but I won't point that out with blanket statements that simply are not always true. But I've have both so I can at least offer my <i>personal</i> experience on both products

Thx

I have the 5 LNB dish but am in the Providence market, so no NESNHD? What about just the games? If no, then that really sucks... BUT... we'll have them by next year.... or this fall/winter (Bruins).

Still better than Cox with no 64 and 12 in HD.

that's correct, NESN-HD has not been released yet in the Providence-New Bedford DMA.

Not to nitpick but where does this information regarding cable outages come from? In the 20+ years that I have been a cable subscriber I have never had a "cable outage" event, nor have I ever heard through word of mouth about a "cable outage" from friends/family etc. I have however heard plenty of word of mouth feedback regarding rain fade from both friends and family who chose to use satelite feeds instead of land line cable.

I'm sure it depends on your viewing habits but our viewing is primary late evening early morning. These "outages" may simply be planned work/maintenance, I do not know, as I've never called to find out. I'm not trying to say one service is better than the other, just pointing out that it is a commonly those that speak of the severity of rainfade have in fact never even purchased the service. Both services have outages, in our area cable has many more than satellite. Does that mean its better? Well that is for each person to decide.

Again, i'm not saying one is better than the other. Just pointing out a misconception on rainfade

These comparisons are being a bit extreme on both sides. Having had cable (Comcast) and now DirecTV, I can say that neither one is perfect. We've had our DirecTV signal go away briefly during very heavy rain or snow (we've had to brush snow off the dish a few times to get the signal back), but I don't recall ever losing the signal for more than a brief period. We also had plenty of cable TV outages when we had that and when it happened it was usually for a lot longer than a few minutes. Keep in mind that a wired system isn't exactly immune from a car, truck, or storm knocking a telephone pole over and killing your cable (and internet) connection potentially for hours or days.

Thank you GSR. You post summed up nicely what I guess I was trying to convey

Living in a condo complex that specifically bans anything on the outside of the building, satellite will never be an option. Only indoor OTA HD antennae will be permitted too.
Bring on FiOS!
Nope, the condo association controls the outside of the condo and I own the inside. It's very specifically stated in our Rules and Regulations...

For example, when they negotiated with Cox to run new clean digital lines to each unit, they made it clear that owners could not run wiring on the outside of the building to reach their desired rooms. Only through the attic or other structured wiring is permitted. The Association controls the outside appearance/presentation of the complex.

Anyway, FiOS is coming and we'll switch our internet and TV to them as soon as we can.

ATPTourFan,

Again, this is another very common misconception and it simply is not true. Neither Cities, Towns nor HOA's can enforce rules that prohibit a resident from installing either a DBS (satellite dish) or an OTA antenna. The FCC which has authority over this matter trumps all other rules. In fact there if you do a search there is numerous cases where, once this is pointed out to the HOA, the end up having to modify or amend their rules. Even if they wrote and a tenant signed does not mean it is enforceable. An HOA can place minor restrictions but can by no means ever prohibit a tenant from installing a dish or antenna (or gaining access to one that allows the tenant to acquire service to and OTA or DBS provider)

If you care to learn more please see the FCC's rules and website on OTARD or (Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule)

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

The following questions on the FCC site may be of particular interest

Q: What restrictions prevent a viewer from receiving an acceptable quality signal? Can a homeowners association or other restricting entity establish enforceable preferences for antenna locations?
Q: Can a restriction limit the number of antennas that may be installed at a particular location?
Q: If I live in a condominium or an apartment building, does this rule apply to me?


For those that are actually interested in OTA or satellite I would suggest you research and actually try these services and judge for yourself.

The more I research this subject, the more confused I'm getting. As a COX HD customer who's locked out of CBS and FOX HD, I am trying to rig an OTA antenna in an effort to receive CBS 12 and Fox 64 HD signals (for a new Panasonic plasma with a built in receiver).

Do I need a UHF or VHF OTA antenna? If I read various posts right, HD signals are really UHF (or do I have this wrong?). Some threads suggest that CBS 12 (which back in the age of rabbit ears, used to be considered VHF) is now really something different in the HDTV era.

The bottom line - I am beginning to think that an off-the-shelf Best Buy VHF/UHF/FM combo antenna is not going to work. I am 23. 2 miles from Fox 64.1 and 23.8 miles from CBS 12.1 (with oak trees in the way near my house). However, I have read where someone in southern RI and/or Mystic, CT is getting these stations with a simple Radio Shack antenna. Any guidance would be appreciated.


A UHF antenna should be all you'll need. I am an using a SilverSensor with an amplifier and am able to pull both CBS 12 (channel 13) and Fox 64 (channel 54) with little issue.

What does http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx recommend for size?

ATPTourFan,

Again, this is another very common misconception and it simply is not true. Neither Cities, Towns nor HOA's can enforce rules that prohibit a resident from installing either a DBS (satellite dish) or an OTA antenna. The FCC which has authority over this matter trumps all other rules. In fact there if you do a search there is numerous cases where, once this is pointed out to the HOA, the end up having to modify or amend their rules. Even if they wrote and a tenant signed does not mean it is enforceable. An HOA can place minor restrictions but can by no means ever prohibit a tenant from installing a dish or antenna (or gaining access to one that allows the tenant to acquire service to and OTA or DBS provider)

If you care to learn more please see the FCC's rules and website on OTARD or (Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule)

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

The following questions on the FCC site may be of particular interest

Q: What restrictions prevent a viewer from receiving an acceptable quality signal? Can a homeowners association or other restricting entity establish enforceable preferences for antenna locations?
Q: Can a restriction limit the number of antennas that may be installed at a particular location?
Q: If I live in a condominium or an apartment building, does this rule apply to me?


For those that are actually interested in OTA or satellite I would suggest you research and actually try these services and judge for yourself.

Though I think you're correct, I think this often turns out to be a situation where it's just far too much work to fight with the condo association. The people running these associations often are very set in their ways (to put it nicely) and will fight you tooth and nail over absolutely absurd things. The association would typically rather spend money on lawyers and tie things up for years than admit that they're wrong.

OTOH, it wouldn't hurt to approach them with well researched documentation and make an attempt at convincing them. It all depends on how much one wants to switch to the other service.

It should not be difficult for you to get either 12 or 64 if your TV has a built in receiver. You should use a UHF antenna. Yes, WPRI, Channel "12" is broadcasting on 13 which is technically a VHF station, but it is so close to the UHF spectrum that a UHF antenna will work fine. I was receiving it perfectly with a CM 4221 (although I actually use a different antenna now).

If you get a decent antenna from BB or RS, you should have no problems. I don't think you would need anything besides the antenna (such as an amplifier). You can even put your antenna in your attic, if that makes things easier. My antenna is a RS combo UHF/VHF just lying on the joists in my attic in Pawtucket. It is pointing towards Boston. I get perfect reception without an amplifier on all Boston and RI stations. The Boston transmitters are between 35 and 45 miles from my location.

SMK

I would second the above sentiments and add that from Cranston I get all of Boston and all of Providence OTA with a Cannel Master rooftop antenna and NO amplifier.

OTOH, it wouldn't hurt to approach them with well researched documentation and make an attempt at convincing them. It all depends on how much one wants to switch to the other service.

From what has been posted her and on other boards, that is exactly what most people do. And subsequently once the HOA read or have their lawyers read the rules and case law they generally back down. Any decent lawyer, after reviewing the rules and case law, would advise the HOA of the tenants rights. These cases do not go to court but rather the FCC to decide the matter. If the HOA took issue with the FCC's decision then they would be fighting Uncle Sam and not the individual whom filed the complaint.

The HOA's rules sometime rely on the fact the tenants will be afraid to pursue their rights or simply do not know them. But again, as you said, it all depends on how important getting that other service which carries that "must have" channel (CBS/FOX RI) is to the individual. What is important is that they understand all of their rights and options.

Thx

I wanted to see the HOF NFL game in HD yesterday, but 10 had this turned off. I hope this isn't the kind of signal we'll be getting Sunday nights during the regular season. Very disappointing.

I happened to look in just before half time and it appeared to be HD, wide screen and not stretched on WJAR

WJAR was the only station in the country that fell asleep at the switch, broadcasting the beginning of the game in SD , not HD.

We are sooo ----- with these locals.

We need to ask our Federal Reps to get a Rhode Island waiver from the FCC to bring in other affiliates of networks. If we can get it OTA we should get access all the way, cable satellite, and FIOS. Rhode Island is just too small a State to have the same regs as a California or a Texas.

WJAR was the only station in the country that fell asleep at the switch, broadcasting the beginning of the game in SD , not HD.

We are sooo ----- with these locals.

We need to ask our Federal Reps to get a Rhode Island waiver from the FCC to bring in other affiliates of networks. If we can get it OTA we should get access all the way, cable satellite, and FIOS. Rhode Island is just too small a State to have the same regs as a California or a Texas.


Wow, I completely agree with that statement.

Thanks for the FCC guidelines related to antenna placement. Very interesting. I don't hate Cox that much to go through all the trouble, but it's nice to know I have the right to do it if I really pushed for it.

I'm in the process of selling my condo anyways, so hopefully I'll have more options at my next place. I'm moving to an area where FiOS is already starting to be installed... Cranston right on the bay.

Ok, so in the effort to be an educated consumer regarding this dastardly Local HD dilemma with Cox & LIN, does anyone know the answer to this question?

As we know Cox blames LIN, and LIN blames Cox. LIN says, “We should be compensated for our investment in HD by Cox.” Cox says, "It is our policy that we do not pay extra for Local HD Channels, we don't do that in any other market and that is not industry policy."

The question then, is that true? Do other cable companies (Comcast, etc) pay anyone extra for Local HD channels? Is there any other parallel for this situation?

If we find out the answer to this we can put the pressure in the appropriate place. If in fact no one else pays extra for local HD channels in any other market we can tell LIN where to stick it and step up our negative pressure and campaign against them. If there are other markets where people do pay extra, we can tell Cox to get on the ball and ante up. In my mind even if there is only one market and one instance where a cable provider is paying extra then the precedent is set and Cox should ante up and come to some agreement.

I know I can use an antenna, blah, blah, blah….that is not acceptable long term. Switching back and forth between inputs and not having a DVR is a pain in the ars.

This situation is really getting ridiculous, but without the facts we are lost.

Well, atleast LIN reported a $244 million net loss. I don't feel bad for them at all.
http://www.projo.com/business/content/projo_20060808_lin08.1f83cb5.html

Ok, so in the effort to be an educated consumer regarding this dastardly Local HD dilemma with Cox & LIN, does anyone know the answer to this question?

As we know Cox blames LIN, and LIN blames Cox. LIN says, “We should be compensated for our investment in HD by Cox.” Cox says, "It is our policy that we do not pay extra for Local HD Channels, we don't do that in any other market and that is not industry policy."

The question then, is that true? Do other cable companies (Comcast, etc) pay anyone extra for Local HD channels? Is there any other parallel for this situation?

If we find out the answer to this we can put the pressure in the appropriate place. .......

ARE YOU KIDDING!? They will find another excuse as to why there is no aggreement!!... They've been doing it since April '03
*Not enough bandwith
*Lin wants multi channels
*etc, etc
....when all along it has been about the money~!

Do you really think they would come to terms and carry the LIN channels? NOT!! Until the Bureaucratic CABLE FRANCHISING LAWS end and competition moves into these markets, we will not seen any change!!

As far as getting active, I am very much for it.... Any suggestions on what we could do?

http://www.consumers4choice.org/site/TellAFriend?msgId=2762.0&devId=6141&JServSessionIdr005=g6hp4tc121.app2a

WJAR was the only station in the country that fell asleep at the switch, broadcasting the beginning of the game in SD , not HD.

We are sooo ----- with these locals.

We need to ask our Federal Reps to get a Rhode Island waiver from the FCC to bring in other affiliates of networks. If we can get it OTA we should get access all the way, cable satellite, and FIOS. Rhode Island is just too small a State to have the same regs as a California or a Texas.

That's why it's nice not to be relying on cable. I get the Boston channels perfectly, and they are what I watch almost exclusively.

SMK

If you live in the Providence DMA and would like NESN-HD please call CS and file a complaint with a manager or call 956-784-7087 and leave a voice mail for the escalation team to call you back. Directv does not automatically authorize the prov zips because NESN-HD is carried on the Boston Spot beam with their locals.

WJAR was the only station in the country that fell asleep at the switch, broadcasting the beginning of the game in SD , not HD.

We are sooo ----- with these locals.

We need to ask our Federal Reps to get a Rhode Island waiver from the FCC to bring in other affiliates of networks. If we can get it OTA we should get access all the way, cable satellite, and FIOS. Rhode Island is just too small a State to have the same regs as a California or a Texas.

WJAR, WLNE and WNAC all drop the ball consistently when it comes to the beginning of HD sports broadcasts or coming back from intermission. They also miss the beginning of prime time series quite often. I find myself constantly turning to the Boston market affiliates for my HD coverage OTA. It is totally unacceptable that it happens as frequently as it does.

And since I was bragging the other day that I'd never heard of losing cable signal, what do you suppose happened this morning? Lost all of my HD channels. They're back on now, but sheesh!

toenail, i'm curious to know if you lost all digital channels or just the HD ones... sometimes, i connect my cable modem to my digital cable TV line just to check the signal to noise ratio using the built in utilty on the modem. just go to 192.168.100.1 in your browser if you have a Motorola surfboard (any version). That also works through most routers like all the Linksys model's I've owned and used elsewhere.

toenail, i'm curious to know if you lost all digital channels or just the HD ones... sometimes, i connect my cable modem to my digital cable TV line just to check the signal to noise ratio using the built in utilty on the modem. just go to 192.168.100.1 in your browser if you have a Motorola surfboard (any version). That also works through most routers like all the Linksys model's I've owned and used elsewhere.

This test would only be effective if every digital video channel was on the same frequency as your downstream HSI, which it's not. You would need to enter into the diagnostic menu on your STB or CC to determine SNR per channel.

toenail, i'm curious to know if you lost all digital channels or just the HD ones... sometimes, i connect my cable modem to my digital cable TV line just to check the signal to noise ratio using the built in utilty on the modem. just go to 192.168.100.1 in your browser if you have a Motorola surfboard (any version). That also works through most routers like all the Linksys model's I've owned and used elsewhere.

I didn't check the other digital channels, just noticed that 700-730 were out and so ended up watching analog equivalents.

This test would only be effective if every digital video channel was on the same frequency as your downstream HSI, which it's not. You would need to enter into the diagnostic menu on your STB or CC to determine SNR per channel.

Steve- If you know how to enter STB diag menu to confirm bit rate please enlighten. I'd love to verifiy what I suspect has been happening recently. Seems that during peak times there's poor signal strength and increased artifacting.

Steve- If you know how to enter STB diag menu to confirm bit rate please enlighten. I'd love to verifiy what I suspect has been happening recently. Seems that during peak times there's poor signal strength and increased artifacting.

Tune to any Digital channel, Then turn off the 6412 using the power button, Within 2 seconds hit the OK/Select button. You will be presented with a Diagnostic Menu.

Select d04

You will be presented with the following:

SNR, AGC, and 5 Second Error Count (Uncorrectable/Correctable). You should have readings similar to these:

SNR: 34%
AGC: 50%
5 Second Error Count:
Uncorrectable: 0000
Correctable: 0000

SNR should be greater than 30-32%. AGC should be less than 55%. 5 Second Error Count (Uncorrectable\Correctable) must be 0000 at all times. I say should when referring to SNR and AGC because these numbers can vary significantly.

As far as bit rate, it is common practice to lower the bit rate on one channel to increase on another for events or other programs or to even add new channels. The best thing is to check the SNR at selected times over a week or so as this is usually the root cause.

Tune to any Digital channel, Then turn off the 6412 using the power button, Within 2 seconds hit the OK/Select button. You will be presented with a Diagnostic Menu.

Select d04

You will be presented with the following:

SNR, AGC, and 5 Second Error Count (Uncorrectable/Correctable). You should have readings similar to these:

SNR: 34%
AGC: 50%
5 Second Error Count:
Uncorrectable: 0000
Correctable: 0000

SNR should be greater than 30-32%. AGC should be less than 55%. 5 Second Error Count (Uncorrectable\Correctable) must be 0000 at all times. I say should when referring to SNR and AGC because these numbers can vary significantly.

As far as bit rate, it is common practice to lower the bit rate on one channel to increase on another for events or other programs or to even add new channels. The best thing is to check the SNR at selected times over a week or so as this is usually the root cause.


Thanks for the detailed response. The variable bit rate thing is done by the provider (Cox Cable) ? Do networks also take it upon themselves to adjust bit rate? I'm getting horrendous image quality from NESN HD that magically clears for game time. Curious if this is Cox or NESN playing with things.

Edit- I shouldn't have spoken so soon. Afwul motion macroblocking during Sox game right now.

The more I research this subject, the more confused I'm getting. As a COX HD customer who's locked out of CBS and FOX HD, I am trying to rig an OTA antenna in an effort to receive CBS 12 and Fox 64 HD signals (for a new Panasonic plasma with a built in receiver).

Do I need a UHF or VHF OTA antenna? If I read various posts right, HD signals are really UHF (or do I have this wrong?). Some threads suggest that CBS 12 (which back in the age of rabbit ears, used to be considered VHF) is now really something different in the HDTV era.

The bottom line - I am beginning to think that an off-the-shelf Best Buy VHF/UHF/FM combo antenna is not going to work. I am 23. 2 miles from Fox 64.1 and 23.8 miles from CBS 12.1 (with oak trees in the way near my house). However, I have read where someone in southern RI and/or Mystic, CT is getting these stations with a simple Radio Shack antenna. Any guidance would be appreciated.

I just went through this whole process and tried to do as much research as I could, plus I tested out a bunch of different options. Basically, it depends on your line of site and locale. For me the indoor antenna option didn't work at all (I tried old rabbit ears, plus a silver sensor), though that could have been because of my room's location.

I'm in Wakefield, on the water, and am a good distance out from these channels but have no obstructions. I just picked up and installed the CM 4228 (8-way bow-tie) antenna and the CM 7777 VHF/UHF pre-amp from Solid Signal, and though it didn't work for me in my attic, it works great outdoors (it is bulky and probably overly taxing for a mast, so we fastened it onto the chimney siding instead of attempting to mount it on a pole...I'd recommend that or even applying it to the side of the house if you can pull it off without it looking awful!).

At any rate it was worth the work -- we can now get 6, 10, 12, 28, 36 and 64 from Providence perfectly. What's more, I can also nab 2, 4, and 5 out of Boston with no problems either.

Other Boston channels (25, 38, 44, and 56) come in great at night here but break up during the day...seeing I'm over 60+ miles from the towers I suppose that's to be expected, though I assume there's something about the location of 2,4, and 5 (and the direction I have the antenna permanently pointed) that makes them come in perfectly at any hour.

Thanks for the detailed response. The variable bit rate thing is done by the provider (Cox Cable) ? Do networks also take it upon themselves to adjust bit rate? I'm getting horrendous image quality from NESN HD that magically clears for game time. Curious if this is Cox or NESN playing with things.

Edit- I shouldn't have spoken so soon. Afwul motion macroblocking during Sox game right now.

No Problem. NESN HD's only share on the AMC011CB 14 transponder is Boston Catholic TV; I doubt they ever call for extra bandwidth. So in this case it's not a network bandwidth issue however, they do have the ability to adjust it.

As for COX and most other provides they typically do not disclose bit rates on their HD channels. Probably to hide the sometime 9-10 Mps rates. If your SNR is in normal ranges and no one else here seems to be posting the same issue it could be the STB breaking down.

hey guys,
I also had a question about Cox and cablecard availability, etc.

I bought a Sony DHG-500HDD DVR and it has a cablecard option...how much would I be looking at for installation and per-month programming? I really only want it for NESN HD.

Do I just call 'em up and inquire?

No Problem. NESN HD's only share on the AMC011CB 14 transponder is Boston Catholic TV; I doubt they ever call for extra bandwidth. So in this case it's not a network bandwidth issue however, they do have the ability to adjust it.

As for COX and most other provides they typically do not disclose bit rates on their HD channels. Probably to hide the sometime 9-10 Mps rates. If your SNR is in normal ranges and no one else here seems to be posting the same issue it could be the STB breaking down.

Not sure how to translate the numbers I found in the Diag d04 menu on the 6412. I checked NESN for the Sox game and saw 35-37 SNR, noticed the AGC was low 50's and while uncorrectable error count was 0000, correctable varied from 0000 to 0008. There is no question that I'm seeing a ton of motion macroblocking that just wasn't there in the past. Noticed it for about 2 months now, though at times it seems to come and go. It's worse on NESN than the other HD channels. I always thought it was either Network or Cable provider, never thought about the STB being the culprit. I'll swap in my 6416 box from the bedroom and see if I still have the same issues.

Not sure how to translate the numbers I found in the Diag d04 menu on the 6412. I checked NESN for the Sox game and saw 35-37 SNR, noticed the AGC was low 50's and while uncorrectable error count was 0000, correctable varied from 0000 to 0008. There is no question that I'm seeing a ton of motion macroblocking that just wasn't there in the past. Noticed it for about 2 months now, though at times it seems to come and go. It's worse on NESN than the other HD channels. I always thought it was either Network or Cable provider, never thought about the STB being the culprit. I'll swap in my 6416 box from the bedroom and see if I still have the same issues.

Looking at the SNR and the correctable errors it looks like you are on the front end of a finicky node on Cox's network. With an SNR that high you should not have any correctable errors. The STB's FEC is kicking in and thats when your seeing the macroblocking.

This is going to be a hard sell to COX because the average CS tech rep (not engineering) is going to tell you this is okay. They say this because it does not cause a complete outage. That will be next if the node continues to degrade. If swapping your box does not resolve this then it's just as a matter of navigating the COX bureaucracy right until you get it resolved.

hey guys,
I also had a question about Cox and cablecard availability, etc.

I bought a Sony DHG-500HDD DVR and it has a cablecard option...how much would I be looking at for installation and per-month programming? I really only want it for NESN HD.

Do I just call 'em up and inquire?

They charge like $25 for the installation. I know they would not allow self-installs last year. Installing it is very simple but most over the phone technicians are clueless when it come to addressing/activating these things so your better off having a field tech install it so they can't blame for problems activating it and charge you for a service call anyway. There are not a lot of subscribers with CC's so when you have trouble it takes awhile to find someone with a clue.

They charge like $25 for the installation. I know they would not allow self-installs last year. Installing it is very simple but most over the phone technicians are clueless when it come to addressing/activating these things so your better off having a field tech install it so they can't blame for problems activating it and charge you for a service call anyway. There are not a lot of subscribers with CC's so when you have trouble it takes awhile to find someone with a clue.

Thanks Steve. About how much per-month is it?

My other question is what kind of level service do you need to maintain in order to access the HD channels? We currently have the high-speed internet with the most limited amount of basic (channels 2-25 I believe) -- is it possible to do the same with the cablecard?

Looking at the SNR and the correctable errors it looks like you are on the front end of a finicky node on Cox's network. With an SNR that high you should not have any correctable errors. The STB's FEC is kicking in and thats when your seeing the macroblocking.

This is going to be a hard sell to COX because the average CS tech rep (not engineering) is going to tell you this is okay. They say this because it does not cause a complete outage. That will be next if the node continues to degrade. If swapping your box does not resolve this then it's just as a matter of navigating the COX bureaucracy right until you get it resolved.

Thanks again for your insight. I swapped STBs and have the same issue. Also tried HDMI vs Component and still no luck. Time to talk with Cox tech support and see if I can get anywhere. Out of curiosity, what is the difference between d03 OOB and do4 inband status? I noticed that SNR is greatly reduced from good to fair with %'s in the teens.

Thanks Steve. About how much per-month is it?

My other question is what kind of level service do you need to maintain in order to access the HD channels? We currently have the high-speed internet with the most limited amount of basic (channels 2-25 I believe) -- is it possible to do the same with the cablecard?

Below is the bare minimum services with the cable card to get the Cox HD's for most of Rhode Island. Package prices vary slightly by zone.

COX LIMITED BASIC $10.30 < You already pay this

COX EXPANDED SERVICE $32.65 < You need expanded to subscribe to the digital tier.

P.E.G. ACCESS 0.50

COX CableCARD $1.99 <New Cable cards charges

DIGITAL SERVICE $4.95 Digital Gateway< Lowest Digital Tier

Total Monthly Cable Service $50.39

Thanks again for your insight. I swapped STBs and have the same issue. Also tried HDMI vs Component and still no luck. Time to talk with Cox tech support and see if I can get anywhere. Out of curiosity, what is the difference between d03 OOB and do4 inband status? I noticed that SNR is greatly reduced from good to fair with %'s in the teens.

The Out of Band (OOB) is the Forward Data Channel (FDC). It's used to send channel mapping, Guide data and firmware updates from the headend to the STB. The STB replies on the Reverse Data Channel (RDC) . These signals do not pertain to picture quality.

Since Cox carries NESN-HD on the upper end of the their spectrum line quality issue's will be very pronounced. I would also check any HD's above this channel for the same issue. If all your in-house wiring is straight thru I would call them right away. If you have splitters and line extenders try taking them out for this room first. They can only charge you if the problem is outside your home wiring, that is of course if you don't pay mo/ for their assurance plan.

Below is the bare minimum services with the cable card to get the Cox HD's for most of Rhode Island. Package prices vary slightly by zone.

COX LIMITED BASIC $10.30 < You already pay this

COX EXPANDED SERVICE $32.65 < You need expanded to subscribe to the digital tier.

P.E.G. ACCESS 0.50

COX CableCARD $1.99 <New Cable cards charges

DIGITAL SERVICE $12.95 < Lowest digital tier, you need a digital tier for HD's

Total Monthly Cable Service $58.39

Thanks Steve. I was hoping it wouldn't cost that much to do the Sox in HD! I'll probably wait (and wait and wait) for DirecTV to offer NESN-HD in our DMA...not sure even with the cablecard that Cox is worth it for me. (My OTA HD is pretty decent).

Thanks Steve. I was hoping it wouldn't cost that much to do the Sox in HD! I'll probably wait (and wait and wait) for DirecTV to offer NESN-HD in our DMA...not sure even with the cablecard that Cox is worth it for me. (My OTA HD is pretty decent).


Directv has published to shareholders the rollout of 14 new Local HD markets, which includes Providence for Q3 and they are telling customers Fall of 06.

Because they have been putting RSN's on the local spot beams it looks like sometime in September we should see NESN-HD in Providence, with MPEG 4 equipment of course. The downside with the use spot beams for RSN's is that you will not be able to get HD games for outside RSN's. If this is their long term plan it's not well thought out.

Directv has published to shareholders the rollout of 14 new Local HD markets, which includes Providence for Q3 and they are telling customers Fall of 06.

Because they have been putting RSN's on the local spot beams it looks like sometime in September we should see NESN-HD in Providence, with MPEG 4 equipment of course. The downside with the use spot beams for RSN's is that you will not be able to get HD games for outside RSN's. If this is their long term plan it's not well thought out.

Steve, again thanks for all the info. I've been trying to go one step at a time with my HD involvement -- we just installed the antenna (as I mentioned above) so right now I'm pretty happy with the OTA stations we can get here in south county.

Basically I want NESN in HD and we already have DirecTV, so I'm willing to wait it out until they get their act together there.

In the meantime, what equipment will I need for this? (5 LNB, etc.?). My plan is to call customer retention, say we're thinking of going with Cox for HD, and see if they have any equipment/installation HDTV discounts for a long-time "A" class DirecTV subscriber...we've been with them since '96 so I hope that counts for something! (and if not, no biggie, we can install ourselves :)

WJAR was the only station in the country that fell asleep at the switch, broadcasting the beginning of the game in SD , not HD.

We are sooo ----- with these locals.

We need to ask our Federal Reps to get a Rhode Island waiver from the FCC to bring in other affiliates of networks. If we can get it OTA we should get access all the way, cable satellite, and FIOS. Rhode Island is just too small a State to have the same regs as a California or a Texas.

Actually you do have the legal right for outside stations under the 'Significantly Viewed Stations' clause. Some providers simply choose not to provide secondary locals. Below are the stations by county the FCC would permit in Rhode Island.

RHODE ISLAND

Bristol
WBZ-TV, 4, Boston, MA
+WHDH-TV, 7, Boston, MA (formerly WNAC)
WSBK-TV, 38, Boston, MA

Kent
WCVB-TV, 5, Boston, MA (formerly WHDH)
+WHDH-TV, 7, Boston, MA (formerly WNAC)
WSBK-TV, 38, Boston, MA

Newport

+WHDH-TV, 7, Boston, MA (formerly WNAC)
WSBK-TV, 38, Boston, MA
WLVI-TV, 56, Cambridge, MA (formerly WKBG)

Providence
WBZ-TV, 4, Boston, MA
WCVB-TV, 5, Boston, MA (formerly WHDH)
+WHDH-TV, 7, Boston, MA (formerly WNAC)
WSBK-TV, 38, Boston, MA
WLVI-TV, 56, Cambridge, MA (formerly WKBG)

Washington
WHPX, 26, New London, CT (formerly WTWS)

Coventry – WLVI-TV
East Greenwich – WLVI-TV
Warwick – WLVI-TV
West Warwick – WLVI-TV

Steve, again thanks for all the info. I've been trying to go one step at a time with my HD involvement -- we just installed the antenna (as I mentioned above) so right now I'm pretty happy with the OTA stations we can get here in south county.

Basically I want NESN in HD and we already have DirecTV, so I'm willing to wait it out until they get their act together there.

In the meantime, what equipment will I need for this? (5 LNB, etc.?). My plan is to call customer retention, say we're thinking of going with Cox for HD, and see if they have any equipment/installation HDTV discounts for a long-time "A" class DirecTV subscriber...we've been with them since '96 so I hope that counts for something! (and if not, no biggie, we can install ourselves :)

You will need an MPEG 4 receiver (H20). I am not sure if they will be putting Providence on the new KU bird but I would get the 5 LNB anyway.

The customer retention reps are okay but their manager are even more generous. If your not happy with the answer I would escalate the call. I was able to get the NFL Superfan free and $10 off for 6/mo because their online HD RSN lookup tools says NESN-HD is available for my Rhode Island zip code. Which it's not. Misleading to new subscribers to say the least.

Actually you do have the legal right for outside stations under the 'Significantly Viewed Stations' clause. Some providers simply choose not to provide secondary locals. Below are the stations by county the FCC would permit in Rhode Island.....

That is interesting information, Steve.

I left Cox a long time ago. I started with D* in 1994. The main reason I left Cox was their removing all the Boston stations (and their picture was crappy, but that's another story). I much prefer the Boston news to the RI news (not that either is great), and there were programs on from Boston that weren't on the RI stations. The faact that I could get the RI stations perfectly with an antenna in my attic, and that I got decent reception of the Boston stations was enough to make me do it.

When I complained to Cox about their taking off the Boston stations, they informed me tht they were forced to do so by the FCC because of complaints by the Boston stations, DMA infringement, etc. And, this wasn't a CSR. It was supposedly the head of programming. Now with a large corporation, you don't know if that person really knows the reason either, but he seemed genuine in his statements.

Anyway, I went with D* and have never looked back. Since the Boston stations went digital I have had perfect reception with my HD receivers, and I don't ever want to start with Cox again. The fact that they intentionally have chosen not to broadcast the Boston stations when in fact the FCC rules say they could, is even further evidence of their arrogance.

SMK

FYI - CBS & Fox locals are meeting this week with Cox, we need to bombard Cox with complaints regarding the lack of HD coverage for CBS and Fox!!!

You will need an MPEG 4 receiver (H20). I am not sure if they will be putting Providence on the new KU bird but I would get the 5 LNB anyway.

The customer retention reps are okay but their manager are even more generous. If your not happy with the answer I would escalate the call. I was able to get the NFL Superfan free and $10 off for 6/mo because their online HD RSN lookup tools says NESN-HD is available for my Rhode Island zip code. Which it's not. Misleading to new subscribers to say the least.

Again, gracias Steve.

When they add NESN HD, will it be part of the local channel package, or are the RSN's separate on their HD service (as they are a la the Sports Pack in standard-def). I read elsewhere from several folks who have an HD-RSN without local channel service.

I only ask because we continue to get the standard-def East/West coast network affiliates (don't ask how or why -- it could have been a carry-over from our Primestar service 10 years ago), and I'd prefer not to mess with that option if I possibly can. The OTA HD channels we get here are just fine.

Actually you do have the legal right for outside stations under the 'Significantly Viewed Stations' clause. Some providers simply choose not to provide secondary locals. Below are the stations by county the FCC would permit in Rhode Island.

RHODE ISLAND

Bristol
WBZ-TV, 4, Boston, MA
+WHDH-TV, 7, Boston, MA (formerly WNAC)
WSBK-TV, 38, Boston, MA

Kent
WCVB-TV, 5, Boston, MA (formerly WHDH)
+WHDH-TV, 7, Boston, MA (formerly WNAC)
WSBK-TV, 38, Boston, MA

Newport

+WHDH-TV, 7, Boston, MA (formerly WNAC)
WSBK-TV, 38, Boston, MA
WLVI-TV, 56, Cambridge, MA (formerly WKBG)

Providence
WBZ-TV, 4, Boston, MA
WCVB-TV, 5, Boston, MA (formerly WHDH)
+WHDH-TV, 7, Boston, MA (formerly WNAC)
WSBK-TV, 38, Boston, MA
WLVI-TV, 56, Cambridge, MA (formerly WKBG)

Washington
WHPX, 26, New London, CT (formerly WTWS)

Coventry – WLVI-TV
East Greenwich – WLVI-TV
Warwick – WLVI-TV
West Warwick – WLVI-TV

What are you saying?

The Government says we have a legal right to secondary locals, but the provider is saying, "---_ the law, we do what we want." ???

:eek:

Anyway, I went with D* and have never looked back. Since the Boston stations went digital I have had perfect reception with my HD receivers, and I don't ever want to start with Cox again. The fact that they intentionally have chosen not to broadcast the Boston stations when in fact the FCC rules say they could, is even further evidence of their arrogance.

Completely agreed. My own Oliver Stone "conspiracy" theory (and I worked at Channel 10 for several years and asked this) is that Cox was to some degree "in bed" with the RI broadcasters, which was one reason for the removal of the Boston stations. I asked the GM and others about it and they'd get defensive, like "well we're not Boston," to which I'd tell them if you can get the stations over the air (and well), there's definitely overlap there and no reason why Cox can't carry them.

Also, wasn't Channel 4 the last of the Boston stations to be removed from Cox? Kind of makes sense given the problematic relationship between LIN and Cox (since 4 would be "competition" to some degree for 12).

It just sucks Cox has always been the top dog for everything in this state -- cable, internet, etc. Many of us have no choice if you want high speed internet to go with them. I hope Verizon makes in-roads here fast and creates the kind of competition our state should have had YEARS ago.

That is interesting information, Steve.

...
When I complained to Cox about their taking off the Boston stations, they informed me tht they were forced to do so by the FCC because of complaints by the Boston stations, DMA infringement, etc. And, this wasn't a CSR. It was supposedly the head of programming. Now with a large corporation, you don't know if that person really knows the reason either, but he seemed genuine in his statements.

...
SMK

That's odd, I was told the same thing, but they were forced to do so by the FCC because of complaints by the Rhode Island stations, DMA infringement, etc.

It make more sense that the 50th (RI locals)market would complain about losing viewers to the top ten market in the country.

Tell me this doesn't sound like a LIN Corp move.

" They trick us, we didn't know what we were buying. We can't compete, we're not rich enough, we need government welfare for a return on our investment, Boo, Who, Who!"

What are you saying?

The Government says we have a legal right to secondary locals, but the provider is saying, "---_ the law, we do what we want." ???

:eek:

Pretty much. They are not required to offer secondary locals. My guess is that because FCC subscriber eligibility is set by county, not state or cable zone the distribution logistics would be too cumbersome for them.

Also, this amendment was made in 2004 so they had already pulled Boston by then and if you called previous to 2004 the answers given would have been correct. .

Again, gracias Steve.

When they add NESN HD, will it be part of the local channel package, or are the RSN's separate on their HD service (as they are a la the Sports Pack in standard-def). I read elsewhere from several folks who have an HD-RSN without local channel service.

I only ask because we continue to get the standard-def East/West coast network affiliates (don't ask how or why -- it could have been a carry-over from our Primestar service 10 years ago), and I'd prefer not to mess with that option if I possibly can. The OTA HD channels we get here are just fine.

The only relationship between the RSN and network HD locals is that they will be carried on the same spot beam that is not up yet. You will not need to have one for the other. I know that when they activated other markets HD's they did a full audit on accounts with HD DNS's and some folks did get letters. If your just getting SD DNS's you should be good. Best of luck!

Verizon has already run the fat multimode fiber cable to my condo building here in West Warwick. They've installed the terminal from which all the individual unit cables will spawn.

It's very cool. FiOS TV cannot get here fast enough. FTTP is a reality!

The only relationship between the RSN and network HD locals is that they will be carried on the same spot beam that is not up yet. You will not need to have one for the other. I know that when they activated other markets HD's they did a full audit on accounts with HD DNS's and some folks did get letters. If your just getting SD DNS's you should be good. Best of luck!

Great, that's what I was hoping for. I figure HD DNS is likely a route that won't work in the long term, so I won't bother persuing that. On the other hand, as you say, we could possibly remain flying under the radar for SD DNS :) (if they even still care at this point).

Thanks again Steve! :)

Pretty much. They are not required to offer secondary locals. My guess is that because FCC subscriber eligibility is set by county, not state or cable zone the distribution logistics would be too cumbersome for them.

Also, this amendment was made in 2004 so they had already pulled Boston by then and if you called previous to 2004 the answers given would have been correct. .


You can’t throw a stone in the State of Rhode Island without hitting a hungry lawyer.

I see a law suit :)

or is it just me?

Something going wrong over at WLNE?

I noticed a few drop outs on Wednesday and everything that ought to be in HD is now in SD on their 6.1, be it prime time or morning TV!

I noticed the same thing today, DM. Good Morning America was in SD for the entire 2 hours.

Finally had DirecTV here to install an AT9 5 LNB dish this afternoon.

I was wondering if anyone here in RI also with an AT9 could let me know what sorts of signals off the various satellites I OUGHT to be getting. Knowing that there aren't any HD locals available yet, I'm assuming it's normal to not be receiving anything off the 99 satellite. On one of the others only a few transponders show up...the HD channels I do get look fine.

I'm not thinking there's something wrong, I just want to verify the install was done properly. :)

Thanks!

Hey that's cool. What did you do to get it? Did you just call up and ask? What did it end up costing you?

I was thinking of holding off on this until I can get the HR20.

As for signals I would agree your assumptions are correct but I suspect you are one of the first in the area to get the new dish.

One more thing, who did the install for you? Was it Halstead? On the transponders you do get what are the signals like?

Sonofjay,
I probably did not get a great deal -- AT9 installed for $99 (I had purchased an H20 off Ebay). I'll probably call customer retention and mention the lack of NESN as was posted above this week ;)

Anyway, Halstead did it. First guy who came out Saturday said he couldn't mount it on the side of the house (!) and needed a special pole if I wanted to go that way in the ground (go figure), so they re-scheduled me for today.

Second guy came, DIDN'T have the pole, but said he specializes in the AT9 and had no problem anchoring the mast to the side of the house and hooking it up, a few feet off the ground (He DID ask why I wanted the AT9 and when I said for HD and the future channels they'll add, he quickly mentioned Dish Network has more HDTV available).

The HD channels look terrific -- not a ton of selection but what's there (ESPN, ESPN2, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Discovery, etc.) look just dandy. I also have an OTA atenna which I split, one end going through the H20 and it did a nice job retrieving guide data for the local digital channels that I receive in just a few minutes, too.

I've read about the transponder levels on the H20 are lower than the regular receiver, so bearing that in mind here we go (note on my OLD standard receiver the 101 transponder readings are all between 80-100 for the most part).

-On the H20, the 101 has readings from 70-100 (a lot of 70s).

-The 110 has 3 transponders that do not show up as "n/a" -- they are 8,10, and 12, all with readings between 72-80.

-The 119 has 11 transponders that do not show up as "n/a" -- they are 22-32, all with readings between 73-80 (one of these is the Providence market, I believe?).

-The 103 (Network 14) has 6 transponders that don't show up as "n/a" -- the ones that are "active" have readings (a wide variety!) of 0,0, 82, 19, 53 and 10. There's nothing except "n/a" on the 103 (Network 15).

-And there's nothing except "n/a" on the 99 (Network 10 or 11).

Do these numbers make sense? I don't seem to be missing any channels, though since I still have my old East/West standard-def network affiliates from long ago, I don't have any Providence locals to double-check on...and strangely I still can't see any programming on "channel 400", if DirecTV is still using that as a measuring stick :)

Interesting, that is good info. I'd be really interested in hearing how you make out with those lower signals. Although I have also read that it is the receiver and not necessarily poor alignment. Apparently if you were to hook up your old receiver to this same dish you would see much higher signals. My quess is its just a different measuring mechanism and does not directly relate to poorer or better signal strength

As for the transponders the only ones I can speak to now are the older 101,110 and 119. As you may know 101 is where most of the main programming comes from and uses pretty much every transponder. 110 is where some the HD MPEG2 channels come from (there are some locals there too but not Providence) and only 8,10 &12 are in use currently On 119 only 22-32 are in use but the transponders 25 & 29 are where the Providence SD locals are beamed from.

I'm not sure which Sat they are going to use for the Providence HD locals but if the signals you have now are any indicator it would seem it will be 103.

I'm also glad to here you made out okay with Halstead and that they have someone skilled at installing the AT9 as I heard it is a much more complicated process to aim. In my experience Halstead can be hit or miss sometimes.

As for test channels I do not get 400 either and do not believe it is used as a test channel. Channels 490-494 are the test channels I have seen, using an Odd & Even each for 101/119 and an Even one for 110 for a total for 5 test channels. Since you have access to the newer satellites you may have additional test channels as well.

Thanks for posting this though. I think based the fact that the H20 reports lower signal you should be all set. But time will tell when they go live with the HD locals next month and how you make out during any rain.

Please let us know how you make out. There will be many others, myself included who will be going down the road you just did within the month when HD locals go live.

Thanks -S

DM2006RI,

Thanks for the info on getting an AT9 here in RI. You may be the first. I am not jumping to put one up until I can also get an HR20 and until there is more HD programming. My HR10 does a great job with OTA locals from Providence and Boston, so the only reason I can see for upgrading all this equipment now would be to get NESN in HD when they light up Providence's HD locals next month. Right now that would not be enough. I will probably wait until there is more HD hockey on NHL-CI, and then would upgrade if that HD programming were only available via MPEG-4.

I also have my current Phase III dish on the side of the house and would want to put the AT9 in the same place. The problem is I don't want an even bigger dish where it would be so visible. I am hoping the newer version, which is supposed to be a lot smaller and lighter, comes out before I want to make the switch.

I agree with sonofjay about your reception numbers. People have been reporting much lower readings on the H20 receivers. He is also correct about which transponders you should be able to get. I don't believe anyone anywhere is getting anything on 99 yet.

Keep us posted.

SMK

Sonofjay, Roy:

You're quite welcome, and I'll be happy to post anything back to you.

I was worried about some of the levels too but after reading your posts and also other forum threads, it seems to be par for the course for the H20. At least I seem to be reading all the transponders I ought to be -- I didn't know how "populated" the other, non-101 sats were at this stage in time. From what you say, I think I'm seeing what I ought to be right now, at least.

Apparently if you were to hook up your old receiver to this same dish you would see much higher signals.

We have an older standard DirecTV box hooked up to this dish and that's EXACTLY the case -- readings are all between 85-100 for the most part, which is even higher than what I had before with the old dish (that was parked a foot or two to the right). So, that made me feel that he possibly did something right in the alignment...but we'll see :)

Thanks again for the comments, I feel better today. Now, if they could only get NESN up there asap!! (BTW, any idea where on the dial they'll put it? I assume right near 623 if they can??).

For those of you who are Jeopardy or Wheel of Fortune fans, I just got the following information from WSBK, TV38.

Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune are going to be recorded in HD when they both start their new season's production for airing beginning in September. WSBK is working on getting the necessary equipment to broadcast in HD. They do not expect to have anything ready at the start of the season, but they expect to be in HD in December. If I hear any more I will let you know.

SMK

Being new to HD, does/will WLWC (28) have HDTV programming when the CW season starts? (Yes, I do watch some of their shows, lol -- I admit it!).

Interesting, that is good info.......

I'm not sure which Sat they are going to use for the Providence HD locals but if the signals you have now are any indicator it would seem it will be 103. .......

Thanks for posting this though. I think based the fact that the H20 reports lower signal you should be all set. But time will tell when they go live with the HD locals next month and how you make out during any rain.

Please let us know how you make out. There will be many others, myself included who will be going down the road you just did within the month when HD locals go live.

Thanks -S

So can someone shed some light on the Direct TV HD Locals that are referenced here? I take it this is different from the current setup of using a separate antenna to pick up the HD Locals broadcast OTA. Is Direct TV going to be transmitting the HD Locals themselves direct to the same dish? So one dish for all?

Any word on if the LIN channels will be part of that group or are they going to have trouble coming to an aggreement as well? :)

Also is/will the new HD DVR unit be a true TWO Tuner unit able to record 2 HD channels at once (versus one Direct TV Channel and one OTA channel).

This all might be enough to temp me to try it out and be able to finally walk away from COX Cable. Or maybe this will force Cox to get their act together and pick up the stations.

Thanks.

I feel like the redheaded stepchild being in Briisol County, MA. Neilsen ratings, Realestate. Average house here is NOT $291K!!!

And Comcast sounds like a picnic compared to COX. We just lament losing WSBK HD.

Sonofjay, Roy:

You're quite welcome, and I'll be happy to post anything back to you.

I was worried about some of the levels too but after reading your posts and also other forum threads, it seems to be par for the course for the H20. At least I seem to be reading all the transponders I ought to be -- I didn't know how "populated" the other, non-101 sats were at this stage in time. From what you say, I think I'm seeing what I ought to be right now, at least.



We have an older standard DirecTV box hooked up to this dish and that's EXACTLY the case -- readings are all between 85-100 for the most part, which is even higher than what I had before with the old dish (that was parked a foot or two to the right). So, that made me feel that he possibly did something right in the alignment...but we'll see :)

Thanks again for the comments, I feel better today. Now, if they could only get NESN up there asap!! (BTW, any idea where on the dial they'll put it? I assume right near 623 if they can??).

It will be 623HD right below where you see NESN on the guide now. Not to rain on the parade, but there are still many bugs in their MPEG-4 compression which results in a very choppy picture, if it's not corrected by next month you will notice this on NESN-HD big time and sometimes on locals. Keep the OTA for a little while longer.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=72798

So can someone shed some light on the Direct TV HD Locals that are referenced here? I take it this is different from the current setup of using a separate antenna to pick up the HD Locals broadcast OTA. Is Direct TV going to be transmitting the HD Locals themselves direct to the same dish? So one dish for all?

Any word on if the LIN channels will be part of that group or are they going to have trouble coming to an aggreement as well? :)

Also is/will the new HD DVR unit be a true TWO Tuner unit able to record 2 HD channels at once (versus one Direct TV Channel and one OTA channel).

This all might be enough to temp me to try it out and be able to finally walk away from COX Cable. Or maybe this will force Cox to get their act together and pick up the stations.

Thanks.


Surferdude2000,

I’ll try to answer a few of your questions

Firstly, yes this is different from the OTA channels. DirecTV will be going live with HD channels via satellite in September for the Providence market. It uses one dish, but it is larger then the ones you see today.

There has been no word on which channels will be included on the initial launch. DirecTV have not had any issues with LIN that I know of so I anticipate they will be included as well. But we won’t know until after they light them up.

DirecTV HD DVRs could always record 2 HD channels at once and this one will be no different. Actually according to the documentation it will be able to record 2 HD satellite as well as 1 OTA channel at the same time. But if you’re not using OTA then this may not apply.

If LIN is a deciding factor for you then I’d wait until launch next month to see what channels they broadcast before making any decisions. The HD channel launches have had mix results in other markets to it waiting to see other subscriber feedback will also help you determine what is best for you.

-S

[QUOTE=Surferdude2000]


Any word on if the LIN channels will be part of that group or are they going to have trouble coming to an aggreement as well? :)



I don't think LINN will be an issue for DTV because of the mutual relationship with FOX.

It will be 623HD right below where you see NESN on the guide now. Not to rain on the parade, but there are still many bugs in their MPEG-4 compression which results in a very choppy picture, if it's not corrected by next month you will notice this on NESN-HD big time and sometimes on locals. Keep the OTA for a little while longer.

Thanks, I'll be sticking with my OTA for sure Steve anyway -- reading that makes me even happier I went to the trouble of mounting a new antenna and pre-amp a few weeks ago.

When they add the HD local channels do I need to "subscribe" to them? As I wrote before I like having the east/west coast standard-def affiliates still on my service, so I'd rather not "rattle the cage" just to get HD channels I can get OTA. If there's some way I can get them, not pay extra, and NOT lose the standard-def east/west coast feeds I'd do it -- but again, seems kind of pointless to me if I can get them OTA (and with a better signal as well).

BTW the HD stuff I've been watching looks great. Seeing 2001 and 2010 off HDNet was worth the price of the $10 per-month last night alone! :)

[QUOTE=Surferdude2000]



I don't think LINN will be an issue for DTV because of the mutual relationship with FOX.


I don't know about that....but is going to be very interesting.

Cox Cable subscribers please go to the Cox Cable website and email Cox regarding the lack of HD coverage of CBS & Fox in RI...remind Cox that in September DTV will be carrying these channels and that in near future Verizon will be coming in with the same offering...Let them know that you will switch regardless of what Cox does over the next six months simply because they've had 2 years to get a deal done and have not...The NFL season is two weeks away and Sunday afternoons won't be the same without HD. We need to keep the pressure on Cox

Cox Cable subscribers please go to the Cox Cable website and email Cox regarding the lack of HD coverage of CBS & Fox in RI...remind Cox that in September DTV will be carrying these channels and that in near future Verizon will be coming in with the same offering...Let them know that you will switch regardless of what Cox does over the next six months simply because they've had 2 years to get a deal done and have not...The NFL season is two weeks away and Sunday afternoons won't be the same without HD. We need to keep the pressure on Cox

That line of reasoning doesn't make any sense - if you're going to leave regardless of what they do in the next 6 months, why should they care what you have to say? If you say you're going to leave if they don't add the missing channels by the time the other alternatives are available, that gives them a reason to care.

Valid point, accept Cox's attitude right now is to add channels once the competition is in place, we need to remind Cox that adding channels once the competition is in place is too late. Add channels now to keep customers, don't wait until you start losing them...Starting sending those emails...

I can't wait for Verizon to light up that glass at my condo building... it's so damn frustrating that the cabling is in place, but the fiber is still dark! :(

Valid point, accept Cox's attitude right now is to add channels once the competition is in place, we need to remind Cox that adding channels once the competition is in place is too late. Add channels now to keep customers, don't wait until you start losing them...Starting sending those emails...

Even if Cox added CBS and Fox HD today don't forget they have not committed to any large scale HD channel lineups, even long term. They are just now converting their basic channels to SD digital. I Doubt they would invest in this step if they were planning on HD upscalling them anytime soon. Cable television just simply serves a wider demographic and the video enthusiast I assure you is the minority.


DirecTV has committed to 150 new national service HD's in addition to the HD local markets their adding for '07. Most of these will probably be upscaled basic networks (like TNT-HD now) as i don't think 150 all HD networks exist yet. Plus, as far as football in HD you can't beat NFL Sunday Ticket with Superfan. I made the switch and paid just $6 for the sales tax for the latest equipment and installation. Not looking back.

FIOS video service outside the metros will most likely be after the next ice age.

Cox made a deal with tivo. Their software is supposed to be on our dvr's in early 2007.
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2006-08/tivo-coming-to-cox/
They have no problems making big deals like this, yet they cannot negotiate with LIN to get us the HD programming that we deserve??

Cox made a deal with tivo. Their software is supposed to be on our dvr's in early 2007.
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2006-08/tivo-coming-to-cox/
They have no problems making big deals like this, yet they cannot negotiate with LIN to get us the HD programming that we deserve??

They CAN negotiate with LIN to get us the HD programming, but choose not to because they get plenty of subscribers without CBSHD and FOXHD.

Cox needs to be reminded that as more and more customers get HDTV's they will drop Cox Cable and to go to DirecTV and Verizon (once on board)...we need to constantly be vocal to Cox regarding this issue...check out this article in USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/telecom/2006-08-23-cable-cover-usat_x.htm

This is what Cox is up against over the next year in RI, and even more so if they don't the basic HD channels

Cox needs to be reminded that as more and more customers get HDTV's they will drop Cox Cable and to go to DirecTV and Verizon (once on board)...we need to constantly be vocal to Cox regarding this issue...check out this article in USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/telecom/2006-08-23-cable-cover-usat_x.htm

This is what Cox is up against over the next year in RI, and even more so if they don't the basic HD channels

I know it been said elsewhere, but it bears reminding here, LIN wants the cash. No other network points a gun at Cox and says, “stick-um up, and put the cash in the bag”.

The question is who will cave, LIN, Cox, Satellite, or FOIS?

And who will pay?

If Cox pays LIN Cash-
If Satellite pays LIN Cash-
If Verizon pays LIN Cash-
You pay LIN cash and you get robed!

Also, I didn’t read anything in that USA article that should have cable losing sleep and the reasons right their in the article and I quote, “Cablevision shrugs off Verizon's boasts about the power of its fiber-optic lines. Because most homes are internally wired with coaxial cable, "fiber-to-the-home translates into a hybrid system that's comparable to ours," says Patricia Gottesman, executive vice president for product management and marketing.”

Reception can only be as good as it weakest link and it weakest link is the old technology, coaxial cable. Verizon may look like cable and satellite just in different colored box. No wow factor here.

Now if they wire that West Warwick Condo with a fiber-optic line to the set or box, then you have the wow. But I’m reading it’s not happening.

Only benefit, price can’t go up without price fixing.

Joe3,
Try to look at this situation between LIN and Cox this way:
Water is free or virtually free to anyone. BUT, as a consumer you can choose to pay for bottled water, flavored water, etc.
WPRI-DT and WNAC-DT are available free of charge to anyone in RI who wishes to receive the stations. They are being broadcast at the maximum power allowed by the FCC, at considerable expense to LIN. As a consumer you can choose to pay Cox, DirecTV, Verizon, etc. to deliver signals into your home. All that LIN is asking for is a very small share of that revenue that is being produced by the reselling of their signals. Especially on HD which has created ZERO revenue for broadcasters so far, but millions of dollars of expenses. Do you think that advertisers are paying extra for their commercials that are airing in HD programming? Absolutely not.
BTW, DirecTV and Echostar have been paying directly for local broadcaster signals for many years, and I believe that their pricing is extremely competitive with cable.

Talk about frustrating !!! Last week, while driving down my street (and only four houses from home) I saw a Verizon guy working on a phone pole. Since he was standing next to his truck taking a break, I stopped for a quick chat. I asked him (not really being serious) if he was installing the FIOS line. To my surprise, he said YES! (among other projects he was working on).

Hives! Cold sweats! Can I can soon tell Cox to take a hike??? So, I asked Mr. Verizon the really compelling question - that is - what about getting service to those homes who live further down the street where all wiring is underground. You see, he was working on the last phone pole before all of the wires, cables, etc. go underground at that point to my neighborhood where I live.

Mr. Verizon gave me the bad news; it will be a long time before the service would go underground to my house. How frustrating - I can SEE the wires, but they're out of reach for the foreseeable future. :eek:

Joe3,
Try to look at this situation between LIN and Cox this way:
Water is free or virtually free to anyone. BUT, as a consumer you can choose to pay for bottled water, flavored water, etc.
WPRI-DT and WNAC-DT are available free of charge to anyone in RI who wishes to receive the stations. They are being broadcast at the maximum power allowed by the FCC, at considerable expense to LIN. As a consumer you can choose to pay Cox, DirecTV, Verizon, etc. to deliver signals into your home. All that LIN is asking for is a very small share of that revenue that is being produced by the reselling of their signals. Especially on HD which has created ZERO revenue for broadcasters so far, but millions of dollars of expenses. Do you think that advertisers are paying extra for their commercials that are airing in HD programming? Absolutely not.
BTW, DirecTV and Echostar have been paying directly for local broadcaster signals for many years, and I believe that their pricing is extremely competitive with cable.

God Bless, you are free to pay LIN to see all those furniture commercials if you want.

But it’s an old trick, a carneys slight of hand when you get to pay for something that is LIN’s cost of doing business. I guess there is a sucker born everyday.

Oh by the way, as of this date, there is no evidence that Direct TV or EchoStar will be paying cash to LIN for its market.

I’m hoping that TiVo’s new 3 Series with OTA which is rumored to be out in October, well ahead of Cox’s 2007 plan to put TiVO in their Motorola box will give us a way out of this LIN/Cable pissing contest. ;)

[QUOTE=ritvman]

Especially on HD which has created ZERO revenue for broadcasters so far, but millions of dollars of expenses. Do you think that advertisers are paying extra for their commercials that are airing in HD programming? Absolutely not.

QUOTE]

You make some valid points and most would agree that some compensation should be made, however, please remind me of the last time the broadcast industry has been required to make any major infrastructure improvements? Given the pace of technology over the last 40 years and the only real investment previously mandated was the ability to transmit in color I would say the industry has skated. As for the millions HD will cost broadcasters I guess they will have to dip into the trillions of dollars of revenue generated over the last four decades using public air waves. It’s almost offensive for anyone in the broadcast industry to complain about the cost of this mandate.

In the end I doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong, because the only people who lose are the consumers. Both Cox and LIN TV are huge corporations raking in millions each year at our expense, so picking who's right and who is wrong is pointless they both want to suck your wallet dry. All I care about is getting as many HD channels as possibly, but four major networks is basic, to that end I believe you need to pick the side you ultimately think will win. I believe LIN will win out in the end, locally the NFL is aired on Sunday on LIN owned tv stations. As Verizon comes in to town and DirecTV looks for other ways to compete against cable, these new players will ultimately view Cox's inability to offer CBS and FOX in HD as a weakness and will pounce on that weakness. Ultimately Cox will add these channels in HD when competition forces them to, but I don't want to sit passively back until that happens, I want these channels now and feel we as a group need to push Cox as often as possible. These posts are great but letting your anger be heard to Cox cable is more beneficial to getting these channels added.

Steve125: Boo-yah!! Right on, man.

Local broadcasters spend millions in capital every year. The use of the public airwaves is a privledge that broadcasters take very seriously. Once again, the digital signals are available for FREE, while cable and satellite charge for their product. Big difference. Local broadcasters should not be expected to hand over their valuable programming to cable and satellite for resale free of charge. Congress and the courts agree on this and have since the telcom act of 1993. The difference now is simple, competition! The cable monopoly will soon be over.

I have an evaluation of several digital recervers posted here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=715013 It includes spectrum analyzer pictures of the Prividence digital stations received in Mystic, CT.
John

RITVman, in the case of Cox, they truly do not "charge" for the OTA HD channels. For example, I have digital cable and the HD-capable DVR. I do not have the HDTV package since I do not yet own an HDTV. I can, however, tune into NBC, ABC, and PBS in High Definition right now (700, 702, and 703). I cannot access the other HD channels like ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD, etc. They show up as "you must subscribe to this service".

Cox truly does give the OTA channels away for free. They do charge for box rental, but like I said, I rent the box now and can get the OTA HD channlels (all 3 of them!) for no additional charge. Everyone with Digital Cable and an HD capable box can receive them.

I've heard/read that those with Digital Cable and a cable card can also get the OTA HD channels for free without Box Rental (they do have to rent the CableCard, obviously).

So can you explain how Cox is specifically charging customers for OTA HD channels? Also, explain how if I were to "add" HD service to my bill, my bill would not change a cent.

Everyone points to the other locals such as channel 10 and says "Cox doesn't pay them", I don't know if that is accurate, but what I do know is that Cox gave channel 10 additional revenue streams by adding the NBC weathe plus channel. In other words Cox is paying channel 10 maybe not in $ per subscriber, but Cox is giving up a channel for something it may not have wanted.

Everyone points to the other locals such as channel 10 and says "Cox doesn't pay them", I don't know if that is accurate, but what I do know is that Cox gave channel 10 additional revenue streams by adding the NBC weathe plus channel. In other words Cox is paying channel 10 maybe not in $ per subscriber, but Cox is giving up a channel for something it may not have wanted.

Couldn't you say that Cox is doing the same thing for Channel 12 by carrying their Pinpoint Weather Channel?

Yep, WPRI has had their digital weather channel carried on Cox Digital Cable for a long time now... what does LIN want?? Even MORE money?

Your cable bill is nearly $70 a month, don't you think you should get the major networks in HD and maybe not get the Hallmark channel??? CBS and FOX is what I want I don't need to see the Lifetime movie network either.

I blame both cox and LIN. They are both greedy corporations, and they are screwing us.

I agree 100% but now that we agree, the question is how do we get these two greedy Corps. to come to a contract and give consumers what they want.

I agree 100% but now that we agree, the question is how do we get these two greedy Corps. to come to a contract and give consumers what they want.
they haven't by now, I think the only thing that will motivate them to do so will be competition(fios)

I agree 100% but now that we agree, the question is how do we get these two greedy Corps. to come to a contract and give consumers what they want.

As we all know the language here is money and unfortunately a few hundred HD subscribers who actually realize there not getting these channels in HD would not create enough influence in any part of the cash flow process for either of them.

The real story here, that expands the problem to include ALL Cox subscribers is that LINN is planning to hold out for competing video providers to force COX into a deal. As we know this would be FIOS. FIOS will not have the ability or the subscriber base in RI to compete with COX for at least 5 years from now.

Thats said, the analog turn of is slated for April 2009, just 2/yr 7/mo from now. Without permission to retransmit the DT stations after this date COX will not have any retransmit rights CBS or Fox channels in RI. HD or not.

Picture the headline "COX Drops CBS and FOX from Lineup" sorry Idol fans! This is the current course of this issue. Problem is who would actually report on this? WPRI-WNAC would not in fear of scarring local ad's to higher ground. How about the projo? Ohh thats right their in bed with LINN. WJAR? WLNE? Why would they report on a competing channel. Guess it's up to us to spread this word. It's the truth and the only way to make it big enough to solve. Politics.

I hate to throw another torch into this fire or should I say another crazy greedy group, but I think we should start sharpening our pencils to see if we can leverage this LIN/Cox mess. It’s no longer a question of getting burnt, its now a question of how do we take back the set.

Here’s a good way how.

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After finding the game not broadcasting in HD, this is my rant to the VP, Program Manager, and Chief Engineer of Fox Providence.
To whom it may concern:

First off, it would be extremely helpful if there were a 'help desk' or 'troubleshooting' line/number to call when there's an issue with your channel. Other than submitting a form online. Not to curtail technology, but some people like immediate attention. Tonight, is exactly one of the times when i wish i could get that immediate attention.

I invited a few friends over to celebrate the end of the NFL preseason, and the beginning of the regular season. Having all intentions of watching the game in high definition. Unfortunately that did not happen. Instead this was the beginning of a very frustrating night. When i could have been enjoying the game with some friend, i ended up on the phone talking to people at your station who couldnt give me an answer. The first time i called i was told that they'd look into it. The second time i called (after the first quarter) I was told that i needed to call my cable company. Now I know, and you all know, that an Over-the-Air signal has nothing to do with a cable company, but yet, i was repeatedly told that i should call them. Beginning to think that maybe there was still someone i could talk to there, i tried the number again. This time i was told to call the FOX station in Boston. I was provided the number there. (781-433-4560) Calling there was actually much more informative. I felt as though i was finally making progress. The man there check his signal, and assured me that he was broadcasting in high definition. At which point I told him that i was in Providence and recieving your(Fox Providence) signal. He told me to hold again, so that he could check to see what signal they(Fox Boston) were feeding to Providence. When he returned to the line, he explained to me that the signal being sent to Providence included both the digital and analog signals. He then told me that i need to call you.

Coming full circle, i'm still without the game in high definition. And i'm left to fill out a form on a webpage. Luckily this isnt my first time, and i still have your email. I only hope that you can understand my anger with this situation. If Boston is sending you the high definition signal, why would someone choose to only use the analog signal. It would seem like a no-brainer.

Is there a way to change the signal mid-broadcast? Or rather, who is deciding which broadcasted version to carry. That person must not have high definition at home. (or not a patriots fan)

It bothers me when TV shows arent in HD, but when Football is not in HD, I take offense. (pun intended)

I would appreciate if in the future Fox Providence would carry "all" signals of the broadcast.


I thank you very much for your time and patience with this matter and i look forward to your swift reply.





I will post with updates IF i get answers.

Amazingly, i got a response at about 12am from the VP himself.

Dear Mr. Chase,
I apologize that you were unable to get a satisfactory answer tonight when you called the station. While the game was broadcast in Boston in HD, we currently do not have the equipment necessary to receive HD from an outside source other than Fox or CBS. This game originated out of WCVB in Boston, not from the Fox network. We will be investing major dollars in the next year on upgrading our equipment for HD, so this should not be a problem next pre-season. Please be assured that every game televised on our stations this season that is shot in HD will be broadcast in HD on WPRI/WNAC including 5.1 surround sound. We are committed to our HD viewers and strive to provide the viewing experience that you expect and deserve as a viewer of WPRI12 & Fox Providence.
Sincerely,
Jay Howell

That Jay Howell guy is good for replying to any concerns at his station. Give him credit for that.

At least pre-season is over and real games are starting soon. I ignore the pre-season games and pray that nobody gets injured.

brenden77-

What kind of antenna are you using to get the Fox Providence OTA signal? Given your location you may be able to get the Boston ABC affiliate that DOES broadcast the pre-season games in HD. I ended up watching the Pat's pre-season HD games this way.

FWIW- I've stated this in the past but it seems appropriate to bring it up again. The Providence market consistently drops the ball with HD broadcasts, whether similar to Brenden's example above or the usual "forgot to flip the switch" problems. If you have an ATSC tuner, a decent rooftop antenna and live in the northern half of the state, all of the Boston affiliates are available OTA. They don't forget to "flip the switch" and generally have more consistent signal strength and PQ than the RI affiliates. I rarely use Providence affiliates for HD viewing whether OTA or via Cox Cable because they let me down about 50% of the time.

To be honest, i've just recently moved a little further north than where i used to live. I used to get most of the Boston's as well. Since moving i havent had time to put my antenna up, its just standing in my living room. I do get 100% of NBC and about 75% of Fox Providence. Unfortunately no Boston anything.

Hopefully i'll be able to get the antenna up before the winter hits. Gotta invest in some hardware to remove the old rusted one that's still up there.

That Jay Howell guy is good for replying to any concerns at his station. Give him credit for that.

At least pre-season is over and real games are starting soon. I ignore the pre-season games and pray that nobody gets injured.

Yes, i will agree... they do seem to get to the emails fast. This however does not make up for the lack of HD.

Amazingly, i got a response at about 12am from the VP himself.

Dear Mr. Chase,
I apologize that you were unable to get a satisfactory answer tonight when you called the station. While the game was broadcast in Boston in HD, we currently do not have the equipment necessary to receive HD from an outside source other than Fox or CBS. This game originated out of WCVB in Boston, not from the Fox network. We will be investing major dollars in the next year on upgrading our equipment for HD, so this should not be a problem next pre-season. Please be assured that every game televised on our stations this season that is shot in HD will be broadcast in HD on WPRI/WNAC including 5.1 surround sound. We are committed to our HD viewers and strive to provide the viewing experience that you expect and deserve as a viewer of WPRI12 & Fox Providence.
Sincerely,
Jay Howell


That's a great answer, but overly optimistic. I can recall several times during "network feed" regular season games on FOX and CBS the HD feed from them failing. It takes them hours to correct it, if at all during the game. Not cool with a house full of people over for the game. Your much safer and get better PQ with the Boston HD feeds OTA.

Hello, Great site.

I'm new to all this great world of HDTV. I, too, have Cox Cable and noticed that they do not carry CBS-HD on channel 12. However, I got a OTA antenna and plan to watch CBS HD OTA. Since I live in the northern part of the state, I get the Boston channels great (87%-89%). So in protest, I'm going to watch CBS-4, instead of channel 12. If more and more people start doing that, LIN and Cox might realize they are losing viewership and maybe come to some sort of agreement to pass along HD via cable.

The point person to send emails to at Cox is Paul Cronin: paul.croninatcox.com This is the VP in charge of the Northeast region he needs to hear from his customers regarding the lack of HD CBS and Fox on Cox

Hello, Great site.

I'm new to all this great world of HDTV. I, too, have Cox Cable and noticed that they do not carry CBS-HD on channel 12. However, I got a OTA antenna and plan to watch CBS HD OTA. Since I live in the northern part of the state, I get the Boston channels great (87%-89%). So in protest, I'm going to watch CBS-4, instead of channel 12. If more and more people start doing that, LIN and Cox might realize they are losing viewership and maybe come to some sort of agreement to pass along HD via cable.

I do the same, however I'm not sure that there's a "Nielsen" box measuring the loss in viewership for OTA HD. Not sure how impactful this might be.

I recently emailed Channel 36 asking about their plans for HD. Here is the reply I received today:

Thank you for your inquiry.

Yes, we anticipate being able to broadcast High Definition programming this Fall, hopefully in the next few weeks.

Kathryn Larsen
Program Director
Rhode Island PBS
401-222-3636 ext. 333

The point person to send emails to at Cox is Paul Cronin: paul.croninatcox.com This is the VP in charge of the Northeast region he needs to hear from his customers regarding the lack of HD CBS and Fox on Cox

I followed your advice and sent an email this morning. This is the reply I received. Not sure if it gives us any hope for the immediate future:

Thank you for your note. We have been negotiating with LIN for some time to bring resolution and hope to get them to the table as soon as possible to bring closure.

This has been a very complex and difficult process that will ultimately end up adding considerable costs to consumers, be they satellite, phone company, or cable. The issue is that current Federal regulations allow for local broadcasters to seek compensation for carriage of their signals, even though those signals are available for free over the air. Cox has negotiated and currently compensates LIN for their analog signal of Fox and CBS. The current negotiation involves additional compensation for the digital signals (HD). We have reached agreements for the HD content with every other local broadcaster in RI and CT except those owned by LIN.

The negotiation with LIN to this point has been focused on trying to land on a price that we believe is reasonable for our customers. Because the broadcasters do not bill the viewer (you) directly for their services, we must pass along the cost to our customers. We believe it is our responsibility and our customers’ expectations that we are working to ensure that we’re responsibly managing our cost increases. Because Federal regulation allows broadcasters to seek compensation as well as market exclusivity (we can’t broadcast a Boston Fox affiliate for example in this market if we can’t reach agreement on their asking price), it’s been a very difficult negotiation.

I remain optimistic that we will reach agreement and we have continued to keep lines of communication open. We have asked LIN to meet with us to see if we can finally resolve this issue and are currently waiting to hear back from them on a date when they will agree to meet. Thank you for your continued interest in HD programming. We value your service and will continue to seek the best programming values we can.

- Paul Cronin

I go the same cookie cutter answer @ 1:12pm... Seems like they are really working hard. What a joke!

Thank you for your note. We have been negotiating with LIN for some time to bring resolution and hope to get them to the table as soon as possible to bring closure.

This has been a very complex and difficult process that will ultimately end up adding considerable costs to consumers, be they satellite, phone company, or cable. The issue is that current Federal regulations allow for local broadcasters to seek compensation for carriage of their signals, even though those signals are available for free over the air. Cox has negotiated and currently compensates LIN for their analog signal of Fox and CBS. The current negotiation involves additional compensation for the digital signals (HD). We have reached agreements for the HD content with every other local broadcaster in RI and CT except those owned by LIN.

The negotiation with LIN to this point has been focused on trying to land on a price that we believe is reasonable for our customers. Because the broadcasters do not bill the viewer (you) directly for their services, we must pass along the cost to our customers. We believe it is our responsibility and our customers’ expectations that we are working to ensure that we’re responsibly managing our cost increases. Because Federal regulation allows broadcasters to seek compensation as well as market exclusivity (we can’t broadcast a Boston Fox affiliate for example in this market if we can’t reach agreement on their asking price), it’s been a very difficult negotiation.

I remain optimistic that we will reach agreement and we have continued to keep lines of communication open. We have asked LIN to meet with us to see if we can finally resolve this issue and are currently waiting to hear back from them on a date when they will agree to meet. Thank you for your continued interest in HD programming. We value your service and will continue to seek the best programming values we can.

- Paul Cronin

I go the same cookie cutter answer @ 1:12pm... Seems like they are really working hard. What a joke!


...The negotiation with LIN to this point has been focused on trying to land on a price that we believe is reasonable for our customers. Because the broadcasters do not bill the viewer (you) directly for their services, we must pass along the cost to our customers.
- Paul Cronin


I'm not laughing!

It looks like Cox is starting to cave in to LIN's demands. Cox just raised their rates on us.

LIN & Cox are talking about a tag team mugging of Rhode Islanders!

Cox better hold the line on their rates.

They would be better off equipping their box with an over the air digital tuner like the new Tivo boxes so we could use the antenna and keep the money in our pocket, throw that on the table!

The key is to reply the canned email, by doing that you're showing Cox that you won't simply accept the pathetic response received and that as a premium customer you should start to be treated like one.

Is there a web site with the approximate digital coverage areas for WNAC and WPRI? I've done a quick search and was unable to find one.

Thanks.

Is there a web site with the approximate digital coverage areas for WNAC and WPRI? I've done a quick search and was unable to find one.

Thanks.

For OTA it will vary depending on quality and gain of antenna used. Check antennaweb.org with your zip code for compass heading and distance.

Here is my latest correspondance with Cox regarding HD service, please keep sending your concerns to paul.croninATcox.com

Paul:

Thanks for your continued interest, I share your both your enthusiasm and frustration. I remain optimistic that this deal can and will get done. We’re working to get their senior leadership to meet to see what it will take to close remaining gaps and get a deal done.



Thanks again,



Paul Cronin




Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 10:38 AM
To: Cronin, Paul (CCI-New England )
Subject: HD Channels



Mr. Cronin,

I am writing to see if there is anything new to report with regards to local HD channels offered on Cox. The NFL season starts Thursday and the first Patriots game is this coming Sunday, and yet again it won't be available in HD on Cox Cable. Any chance a contract will be signed in the near future?


Cox HD Digital Cable, High Speed Internet and Telephone subscriber

I just emailed Paul as well.

I think we all need to make our voice heard in a polite way so that they realize just how many frustrated people there are. I can see them thinking this is just a couple over-zealous HD nerds but if they hear from many of us about the level of our frustration they will know the seriousness of the matter.

I'll post my response if it is anything new.

Frankly at this point I would gladly pay more $$ for HD, I don't care. I just want high quality and I am willing to pay for it.

I CAN'T BELIEVE WE CAN'T WATCH THE PATS IN HD YET AGAIN!!!!!!!

as well as market exclusivity (we can’t broadcast a Boston Fox affiliate for example in this market if we can’t reach agreement on their asking price), it’s been a very difficult negotiation.


- Paul Cronin

I would write back to Paul and explain that maybe he's having difficulty because they don't even know their own rights in these "Negotiations" with LINN. Ask Paul if he could crawl out from under his canned email response and explain why COX doesn't exercise their right to carry WBZ CBS-4 under the "Significantly Viewed Stations.” clause of the same federal regulation they claim is making them a victim of poor negotiations. The answer is COX chooses not to.

His response either demonstrates his ignorance or his presumption of yours. I would not accept this. By the way Directv will have all the Providence stations in HD by the end of this month in MPEG-4.

The "Significantly Viewed Stations" stations clause only applies to satelite, not to cable companies

Also, on with regards to DirecTV's offering of local channels in HD in Rhode Island, DirecTV has yet to disclose what channels will be offered. In addition I asked LIN TV what the status was with DirecTV, I was told the two parties are meeting at a corporate level to negotiate an agreement, doesn't sound like a lock yet.

The "Significantly Viewed Stations" stations clause only applies to satelite, not to cable companies

That's incorrect, though most commonly known from SHVERA, the "Significantly Viewed Stations" as defined by the FCC was established for multiple purposes. Below is how it pertains to cable operators.

Network Program Nonduplication

Commercial television station licensees are entitled to protect the network programming they have contracted for by exercising nonduplication rights against more distant television broadcast stations carried on a local cable television system that serves more than 1,000 subscribers. Commercial broadcast stations may assert these nonduplication rights regardless of whether or not their signals are being transmitted by the local cable system and regardless of when, or if, the network programming is scheduled to be broadcast. Generally, the zone of protection for such programming cannot exceed thirty-five miles for stations licensed to a community in the Commission's list of top 100 television markets or fifty-five miles for stations licensed to communities in smaller television markets. In addition, a cable operator does not have to delete the network programming of any station which the Commission has previously recognized as significantly viewed in the cable community

Also, on with regards to DirecTV's offering of local channels in HD in Rhode Island, DirecTV has yet to disclose what channels will be offered. In addition I asked LIN TV what the status was with DirecTV, I was told the two parties are meeting at a corporate level to negotiate an agreement, doesn't sound like a lock yet.

Nothing is a lock with LINN until they actually flip the switch. My understanding is now that DTV is adding more HD's in smaller markets, they will work out a package deal for the rights in the 19 LINN markets. If this matter should ever land in the courts it would be nice if LINN could demonstrate they successfully bargained with at least one major provider on this issue. ;)

I recently emailed Channel 36 asking about their plans for HD. Here is the reply I received today:

Thank you for your inquiry.

Yes, we anticipate being able to broadcast High Definition programming this Fall, hopefully in the next few weeks.

Kathryn Larsen
Program Director
Rhode Island PBS
401-222-3636 ext. 333

HD? Man, I would have been happy with program guide info showing up in their stream, but HD would be great too. Thanks for the info.

Does anyone know if 28 will be broadcasting in HD once the CW season starts? I need to get my Smallville fix! :)

Does anyone know if 28 will be broadcasting in HD once the CW season starts? I need to get my Smallville fix! :)
Yes, we expect to begin on September 18th, the start of the fall CW season.

Yes, we expect to begin on September 18th, the start of the fall CW season.

Great, thanks so much -- will look forward to it! :)

I just emailed Paul as well.

...Frankly at this point I would gladly pay more $$ for HD, I don't care. I just want high quality and I am willing to pay for it.

I CAN'T BELIEVE WE CAN'T WATCH THE PATS IN HD YET AGAIN!!!!!!!

I was at a former (LIN) frustrated friend's house and watched the Pats in OTA HD and it looked great.

I know we have a traditon of protection money being paid to certain parties in this state, but paying more to anyone of these guys to me would be to close to extortion

Frankly, at this point I too would gladly pay more $$ for HD, but not to abusers. As I told my friend who has invested more $$ for his HD that like him I will not give these guys one extra cent for what they're putting us through.

The Tivo S3 will give me cable and OTA to get not only the LIN hold outs, but CW 28 in HD. That's three more HD channels I don't get now.

If the S3 Tivo is the right price with rebates and incentives that is where I'll be putting my extra $$ and not with these extortionist who think if they play us long enough we'll gladly pay their cost.

Ladies and Gentlemen, sharpern your pencils

That's incorrect, though most commonly known from SHVERA, the "Significantly Viewed Stations" as defined by the FCC was established for multiple purposes. Below is how it pertains to cable operators.

Network Program Nonduplication

Commercial television station licensees are entitled to protect the network programming they have contracted for by exercising nonduplication rights against more distant television broadcast stations carried on a local cable television system that serves more than 1,000 subscribers. Commercial broadcast stations may assert these nonduplication rights regardless of whether or not their signals are being transmitted by the local cable system and regardless of when, or if, the network programming is scheduled to be broadcast. Generally, the zone of protection for such programming cannot exceed thirty-five miles for stations licensed to a community in the Commission's list of top 100 television markets or fifty-five miles for stations licensed to communities in smaller television markets. In addition, a cable operator does not have to delete the network programming of any station which the Commission has previously recognized as significantly viewed in the cable community

Why can't we all reply to the manager at Cox with this info and ask why they don't exercise their right to carry Boston OTA channels in the RI demographic area? I'd love to hear what he has to say. Ultimately, I don't care if I have boston or providence channels in HD, because the local affiliates aren't PRODUCING any HD content themselves. They only re-broadcast the HD signal from the network.

If Cox were to add the boston CBS and Fox channels to their RI HD lineup, people would be happy with that. They can always watch the SD LIN-controlled providence channels on 11 and 12. When they needed to watch network programming from Fox and CBS, they can easily turn to the HD channels from boston.

What does everyone think about that?

Send it in, paul.croninATcox.com

After my initial 'fluff'responce from Paul Cronin I sent him a follow-up challenging the weak message he sent and he has yet to respond. Both sides are a joke. Only real competition will result in a change on Cox's side. I will continue to use OTA to satisfy my needs but agree that I would pay a monthly charge to Cox for a significant upgrade to thier current HD lineup. Other Cox markets offer channels still not available to us. Very frustrating!

Does anyone know when DirecTV plans on adding the HD locals for Providence? And, would that also bring NESN HD as well?

Does anyone know when DirecTV plans on adding the HD locals for Providence? And, would that also bring NESN HD as well?

the website says September.

the website says september, but makes not mention of what channels will be offered, i.e. they haven't signed a contract with LIN TV yet.

Any news on Jeopardy in HD for RI? I know the HD episodes are available and that channel 38 out of the Boston market will be airing them starting in December. Curious about WPRI pursuing this at all.

I looking for a new replaement antenna for my HD TV. The current one I have now seems not to pick up any stations anymore on both of my TV's and I dont really know why, so im in the market for a new one. I live in Foster RI and was wondering what ppl are using around me for their antenna.

I looking for a new replaement antenna for my HD TV. The current one I have now seems not to pick up any stations anymore on both of my TV's and I dont really know why, so im in the market for a new one. I live in Foster RI and was wondering what ppl are using around me for their antenna.

What kind of antenna were you previously using? A sudden loss of signal from the antenna might just indicate a connectivity issue. I've seen some nast old antennae function just fine as long as the connection to the TV was adequate.

If you are still in need, I've had a great experience with my Channel Master 4228. It easily pulls in Boston OTA @40+miles in addition to the Providence locals. Your distance from Boston is about the same as mine.

The antenna that I was previously using was the Terk HDTVa Indoor Amplified High-Definition Antenna for Off-Air HDTV Reception (http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Amplified-High-Definition-Off-Air-Reception/dp/B0007MXZB2/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_0/104-8429472-8244747?ie=UTF8). I could pull the boston cbs and providence fox good from it when I put it near the window facing toward boston, but then it just suddenly didnt receive any stations. I tried another amp, but it still didnt work, so im thinking some wire inside might have got ripped, im gonna take it apart tonight to see if I can get it to work.

That antenna I suggested is a large, outdoor, non-amplified antenna. Very different from what you are using now. CBS out of Boston from 45 miles away is a pretty good trick for an indoor antenna though.

Any idea why WJAR is not showing the Today show in HD?

I have heard that Direct TV now has the local channels as well as NESN in HD - I'm all set to dump Cox - Does anyone know if NESN/ NESN HD are part od the Direct TV total choice package or do you need to pay extra to get them?

DirecTV do not have the local channels in HD in Providence yet. They are due to go live this month but the actually channels that will be available is unknown yet as LIN channels (CBS/FOX) are known to be looking for more money then other providers are willing to pay (Cox being one of them). So it remains to be seen if DirecTV will have a deal with LIN at go-live.

Also DirecTV include NESN as part of the regular package but NESN-HD is not yet available in the Providence market. This may all change when the local HD's go live but again that remains to be seen.

Basically it will be a few weeks before we all know for sure exactly what HD channels DirecTV will be offering in the Providence Market

The antenna that I was previously using was the Terk HDTVa Indoor Amplified High-Definition Antenna for Off-Air HDTV Reception (http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Amplified-High-Definition-Off-Air-Reception/dp/B0007MXZB2/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_0/104-8429472-8244747?ie=UTF8). I could pull the boston cbs and providence fox good from it when I put it near the window facing toward boston, but then it just suddenly didnt receive any stations. I tried another amp, but it still didnt work, so im thinking some wire inside might have got ripped, im gonna take it apart tonight to see if I can get it to work.

I have the same issue, I rooted it down to the removal of a huge water tower about 3 weeks ago that used to sit about 545ft mean elevation in Burrillville. I sit at about 200ft with elevations of 500+ if far N. RI, between me and boston. The tank was the only way. Do a google earth fly through in the general direction of the boston towers from your house. Pretty sure from Foster you would cross right over this area. It could also be the antenna work WBZ,WGBH, WCVB, and WSBK are doing in boston right now, they said it could take weeks, that was a couple weeks ago.

I have the same issue, I rooted it down to the removal of a huge water tower about 3 weeks ago that used to sit about 545ft mean elevation in Burrillville. I sit at about 200ft with elevations of 500+ if far N. RI, between me and boston. The tank was the only way. Do a google earth fly through in the general direction of the boston towers from your house. Pretty sure from Foster you would cross right over this area. It could also be the antenna work WBZ,WGBH, WCVB, and WSBK are doing in boston right now, they said it could take weeks, that was a couple weeks ago.
That work had no effect on the antennas; it involved painting and just meant we had to shut down for a few nights while it went on.

In fact, we'll be doing it again for a night or two next week. I'll let you know when that happens.

DirecTV do not have the local channels in HD in Providence yet. They are due to go live this month but the actually channels that will be available is unknown yet as LIN channels (CBS/FOX) are known to be looking for more money then other providers are willing to pay (Cox being one of them). So it remains to be seen if DirecTV will have a deal with LIN at go-live.

Also DirecTV include NESN as part of the regular package but NESN-HD is not yet available in the Providence market. This may all change when the local HD's go live but again that remains to be seen.

Basically it will be a few weeks before we all know for sure exactly what HD channels DirecTV will be offering in the Providence Market

I have a feeling we are going to get everything or nothing here. If in fact DirectTV lands a deal for the LIN HD stations I wouldn't be surprised that THEN and ONLY then Cox antes up as well to stay competitive. If DirectTV doesn't hammer out a deal then neither of them will carry the LIN HD and we will be right were we are now, but without hope.

But Direct TV has deeper pockets and more influence so I am hoping they pull it off. Then if Cox doesn't follow suit immediately I am dropping them.

DirecTV do not have the local channels in HD in Providence yet. They are due to go live this month but the actually channels that will be available is unknown yet as LIN channels (CBS/FOX) are known to be looking for more money then other providers are willing to pay (Cox being one of them). So it remains to be seen if DirecTV will have a deal with LIN at go-live.

Also DirecTV include NESN as part of the regular package but NESN-HD is not yet available in the Providence market. This may all change when the local HD's go live but again that remains to be seen.

Basically it will be a few weeks before we all know for sure exactly what HD channels DirecTV will be offering in the Providence Market


When I spoke with Direct TV yesterday they told me that the local channels are available in HD - is this not true?

When I spoke with Direct TV yesterday they told me that the local channels are available in HD - is this not true?

Not from their Satellite feed. DirecTV receivers have digital OTA tuners that would allow you to get HD channels with an OTA antenna. However, they are schedule to have HD locals live this month on their Sat feeds.

So answer is no that do not have it now, but should in a few weeks.

Not from their Satellite feed. DirecTV receivers have digital OTA tuners that would allow you to get HD channels with an OTA antenna. However, they are schedule to have HD locals live this month on their Sat feeds.

So answer is no that do not have it now, but should in a few weeks.

Thanks - it still seems a better deal than Cox - where I would need an OTA antenna plus an HD receiver - they are selling reasonable HD OTA's at Ocean State Job Lot

I actually spoke on the phone today with Paul Cronin. I had originally e-mailed him and rec'vd a cookie cutter reply. I re-sent him a message stating how disappointed I was with Cox, their form letters, and their lack of movement with HD service. He replied asking me to get him a number where I could be reached today. He in fact called me and spoke with me for 10 minutes during which time I asked about a few items including LIN TV, Celtics basketball, ESPN2, and channels available in other Cox markets (Starz, Cinemax, NFL Network). LIN TV - They are slated for a meeting in the first couple of weeks of October and they believe they are close to reaching a deal. Celtics games should be available in HD (I assume similar to the Red Sox situation before adding NESN full time). ESPN 2 - He stated nothing that leads me to believe it is coming anytime soon but he stated the more calls and letters Cox gets for channel the better chance it has of being added. He stated that channels available in other Cox markets should be available here and he was going to look into it further. He stated that some Cox markets have issues with space but that here there is no such issue. I took him as sincere as he certainly did not have to call me. I will send him another message in a month asking if the LIN deal is any closer. I am slightly more encouraged today than I was yesterday.

Thanks for the info ransaldi. MAYBE there is a bit of light at the end of the tunnel.

That work had no effect on the antennas; it involved painting and just meant we had to shut down for a few nights while it went on.

In fact, we'll be doing it again for a night or two next week. I'll let you know when that happens.


Thanks for that info and any future updates. Just curious, being that I did not ever see any of the Dt's off via DirecTV do you folks feed them direct from the studio by fiber? DirecTV has been butchering the PQ with over compression and I was wondering if maybe it's the result of two parts of the air chain.

I actually spoke on the phone today with Paul Cronin. I had originally e-mailed him and rec'vd a cookie cutter reply. I re-sent him a message stating how disappointed I was with Cox, their form letters, and their lack of movement with HD service. He replied asking me to get him a number where I could be reached today. He in fact called me and spoke with me for 10 minutes during which time I asked about a few items including LIN TV, Celtics basketball, ESPN2, and channels available in other Cox markets (Starz, Cinemax, NFL Network). LIN TV - They are slated for a meeting in the first couple of weeks of October and they believe they are close to reaching a deal. Celtics games should be available in HD (I assume similar to the Red Sox situation before adding NESN full time). ESPN 2 - He stated nothing that leads me to believe it is coming anytime soon but he stated the more calls and letters Cox gets for channel the better chance it has of being added. He stated that channels available in other Cox markets should be available here and he was going to look into it further. He stated that some Cox markets have issues with space but that here there is no such issue. I took him as sincere as he certainly did not have to call me. I will send him another message in a month asking if the LIN deal is any closer. I am slightly more encouraged today than I was yesterday.

The only thing I don't believe is the ESPN2HD issue... Cox isn't adding that because it's an expensive channel to carry. They'll delay as long as possible until competition forces them to pick it up. They KNOW that all the people who have HD and watch ESPNHD ALSO want ESPN2HD. You can't have one without the other. Cox is just pinching pennies.

...He stated that channels available in other Cox markets should be available here and he was going to look into it further. He stated that some Cox markets have issues with space but that here there is no such issue. I took him as sincere as he certainly did not have to call me. I will send him another message in a month asking if the LIN deal is any closer. I am slightly more encouraged today than I was yesterday.

I don't doubt your sincerity, but something is a little weird. So if space is not a problem with adding more HD channels what is? Why are they so HD lacking in their line up?

It doesn't add up to me.

I think their on the verge of a mass exodus of customers and I think they sense it.

So.......how many days now until DirectTV announces their Local HD lineup?

I don't doubt your sincerity, but something is a little weird. So if space is not a problem with adding more HD channels what is? Why are they so HD lacking in their line up?

It doesn't add up to me.

I think their on the verge of a mass exodus of customers and I think they sense it.

Like I said, I believe it's all due to competition for HD in the demographic area and cost. Cox will not add new channels that have siginificant carriage fees unless 1) another direct competitor has it or 2) enough of their customers are "demanding" it. I would think that option #1 is the top priority. Otherwise, they will limit their offerings based on cost and only add new channels when they feel they're going to lose customers.

Cox is NEVER first to have new channels that people actually want. Remember when ESPN2 (the SD channel) was finally added? That was almost 3yrs after other cable/sat providers had it. It's all cost. ESPN2HD is expensive to carry relative to Universal HD, TNT-HD and MHD.

OK.

I have a hd10-250 and a OTA. I am showing OTA channels in my guide, but I get no picture and no signal! Any thoughts? I'd appreciate any help you can give me.

OK.

I have a hd10-250 and a OTA. I am showing OTA channels in my guide, but I get no picture and no signal! Any thoughts? I'd appreciate any help you can give me.

Well not much info given to help you with so a few question:

Do you have an antenna hooked up your your HD10-250? Have you tweaked its aim? Did you have the channels come in fine before? Is so have you tried running the channel/scan setup again? Have you tried unplugging the receiver to allow it to do a reset?

OK.

I have a hd10-250 and a OTA. I am showing OTA channels in my guide, but I get no picture and no signal! Any thoughts? I'd appreciate any help you can give me.

If you enter a primary or seconday market zip code it will populate the guide data with every channel in that DMA, even if there is no signal or chance you can receive it OTA.

So.......how many days now until DirectTV announces their Local HD lineup?

After much thought, I just canceled DirecTV after trying it for a few months. I was extremely disappointed at the Picture Quality, even on their new HD MPEG-4 channels (i.e NESN HD, Boston Locals) It turns out this is not isolated, it is being reported in almost every market they have rolled out HD locals and RSN's using MPEG-4. Very choppy motion, almost like a reduced frame rate. They could add 500 HD channels, but if they look like that I want nothing to do with them. Major disappointment all they way around.

Providence, Beware of Directv's MPEG-4 receivers. Something is very wrong there.

After much thought, I just canceled DirecTV after trying it for a few months. I was extremely disappointed at the Picture Quality, even on their new HD MPEG-4 channels (i.e NESN HD, Boston Locals) It turns out this is not isolated, it is being reported in almost every market they have rolled out HD locals and RSN's using MPEG-4. Very choppy motion, almost like a reduced frame rate. They could add 500 HD channels, but if they look like that I want nothing to do with them. Major disappointment all they way around.

Providence, Beware of Directv's MPEG-4 receivers. Something is very wrong there.

FiOS TV can't come soon enough!! It has the great selection/availability of programming like DirecTV, but over a fiber optic network. I will sign up as soon as I can.

Anyone seen the COX basic Digital Simulcast yet? Anyone know the zone rollout schedule?

.....

Anyone seen the COX basic Digital Simulcast yet? Anyone know the zone rollout schedule?

What exactly is this?

After much thought, I just canceled DirecTV after trying it for a few months. I was extremely disappointed at the Picture Quality, even on their new HD MPEG-4 channels (i.e NESN HD, Boston Locals) It turns out this is not isolated, it is being reported in almost every market they have rolled out HD locals and RSN's using MPEG-4. Very choppy motion, almost like a reduced frame rate. They could add 500 HD channels, but if they look like that I want nothing to do with them. Major disappointment all they way around.

Providence, Beware of Directv's MPEG-4 receivers. Something is very wrong there.

How about DishNetwork in our (Providence area) I have been thinking of switching to DishNet. They offer a wide array of HD channels at a very competative price point. Any major PQ issues, better or worse than DTV?
Also from looking at FIos programming, their HD lineup does not offer more from a quantity standpoint than area Cable companies( Cox/ Comcast). Their digital lineup looks good at a fair price but I would have thought they would roll out more HD channels to standout from the cable guys.

What exactly is this?

Cox is starting to Digital Simulcast Basic cable cannels (i.e TBS, USA, FX). If you have digital equipment, and when it's available in your area they will automatically map your STB or CC to the the digital feed. The analog feeds will remain in place for the time being for subscribers without digital equipment. From what I am told, it's been rolled out in the Warwick area ( isn't that the first FIOS area in RI? :rolleyes: ) and will be expanded town by town until Fall 07.

How about DishNetwork in our (Providence area) I have been thinking of switching to DishNet. They offer a wide array of HD channels at a very competative price point. Any major PQ issues, better or worse than DTV?
Also from looking at FIos programming, their HD lineup does not offer more from a quantity standpoint than area Cable companies( Cox/ Comcast). Their digital lineup looks good at a fair price but I would have thought they would roll out more HD channels to standout from the cable guys.

I have never personally tried dish, but from what I read it's about the same with regard to PQ. The question is how they plan to make future use of MPEG-4. Will they balance the freed bandwidth for better PQ and Capacity or just Capacity.

The Satellite Co's have an unclear business strategy for what's soon ahead of them. The cable company's have made huge leaps and now Company's like Verizon and AT&T are building out wired video services too, with extra content like ON Demand, Internet access and VOIP. The only way Satellite will be able to compete in this new market is with better prices and more channels. PQ takes the hit. I would stay away from Satellite if PQ is important to you. Another thing too, you usually have to commit for 1 or 2 years. Things are changing too fast to be committed to them that long.

Cox is starting to Digital Simulcast Basic cable cannels (i.e TBS, USA, FX). If you have digital equipment, and when it's available in your area they will automatically map your STB or CC to the the digital feed. The analog feeds will remain in place for the time being for subscribers without digital equipment. From what I am told, it's been rolled out in the Warwick area ( isn't that the first FIOS area in RI? :rolleyes: ) and will be expanded town by town until Fall 07.

Essentially, at some point I should see PQ comparable to digitals like HBO etc but on my analog stations? That would be a welcome sight.

What exactly is this?

Cable companies like Cox are eventually going to switch all of their video to digital from the old analog (channels 2 through 80, approx). By doing so, they will free up loads of frequency bandwidth because digitally compressed Standard Definition channels use way less bandwith than a standard analog channel. In fact, approx 6 digital SD channels can fit into the space where one analog SD channel resides. You can also fit approx 2 HD channels into one analog channel's space, depending on the quality they choose to transmit.

Simulcast means that users with digital cable boxes will get their channels 2-80 as digital channels, just like those from 100 and above. For now, users with regular cable-ready TVs will still receive analog channels without a box or new TV.

One day, the analog channels will be cut off and users will need to have a set top box or a TV that has a built-in digital cable tuner (many now ship with this feature) to view TV.

Cox will be able to use that new extra bandwidth for cool stuff like super fast internet and High Definition video on demand and other stuff we're not thinking of yet.

Cox is starting to Digital Simulcast Basic cable cannels (i.e TBS, USA, FX). If you have digital equipment, and when it's available in your area they will automatically map your STB or CC to the the digital feed. The analog feeds will remain in place for the time being for subscribers without digital equipment. From what I am told, it's been rolled out in the Warwick area ( isn't that the first FIOS area in RI? :rolleyes: ) and will be expanded town by town until Fall 07.

I live in West Warwick where FiOS lines have already been dropped to homes (but they're still dark). I'm pretty sure Cox has activated digital simulcast because the analog channels started looking much better since about last week.

So i'm new to the whole forum thing but found this one while i was trying to figure out why cox had such a poor channel line up. Just thought i would share what Paul Cronin replied to me.


Our plan is to continue to negotiate HD programming rights with programming vendors and as those agreements get completed add them to our lineup. We are in the process of doing that now with a priority on completing the local CBS and Fox broadcast agreements. With the majority of the HD deals coming at a premium cost, we are being careful to negotiate deals that are market competitive and do not unnecessarily inflate customer fees. We are optimistic we can get these deals done and look forward to adding to our HD lineup in the very near future. Thank you for your interest and patronage.



- Paul Cronin

Thanks for all the info in the previous posts.

Anyone else getting a lower audio sample rate on WSBK-DT for the 2 days?

I live in West Warwick where FiOS lines have already been dropped to homes (but they're still dark). I'm pretty sure Cox has activated digital simulcast because the analog channels started looking much better since about last week.

That's good news. It's nice their finally going all digital and the PQ get's better.

That's good news. It's nice their finally going all digital and the PQ get's better.

I take my comment back. I don't think I'm on the digital simulcast yet in W Warwick.

This was posted on the DirecTV website recently. They were saying Sept before, now we've been downgraded to "fall" Nice...

Here's a list of upcoming markets that will launch this fall:

Austin, Cincinnati, Greensboro, Las Vegas, Madison, Memphis, Portland ME, Portland OR, Providence, Reno, San Antonio

Have a general question for everyone. I have a, let's say, strong dislike for Cox Communications. Even though we cannot get locals in HD yet from Directv, I am considering switching back to them now. If I were to do that, can I get the dish I would need for HD locals and the HR20 box? In other words, I want to be all set up once they turn the locals on. In the meantime, I would just the SD locals from Directv. Thoughts?

Have a general question for everyone. I have a, let's say, strong dislike for Cox Communications. Even though we cannot get locals in HD yet from Directv, I am considering switching back to them now. If I were to do that, can I get the dish I would need for HD locals and the HR20 box? In other words, I want to be all set up once they turn the locals on. In the meantime, I would just the SD locals from Directv. Thoughts?

Sure, that's just what I did. I have the AT9 and the HR20, which work fine for the HD offerings they do have.

But I wouldn't expect to get any of this for free -- despite the "magic freebies" some people apparently get, I tried customer retention a few times to get a deal on this (plus later when I complained that they didn't have NESN HD despite listing it on the website), and got snake eyes. Absolutely nothing except the AT9 and installation for $100 and an apology for NESN. I guess I could keep calling over and over but I felt it was more trouble than it was worth, despite being an "A list" subscriber or whatever they call it since '96.

People have said their local HD channels suck, however -- though for me I don't care as I have OTA and the HR20 does a terrific job integrating those HD channels with the others. Good luck!

Have a general question for everyone. I have a, let's say, strong dislike for Cox Communications. Even though we cannot get locals in HD yet from Directv, I am considering switching back to them now. If I were to do that, can I get the dish I would need for HD locals and the HR20 box? In other words, I want to be all set up once they turn the locals on. In the meantime, I would just the SD locals from Directv. Thoughts?


I wouldn't jump into the fire from the pot just yet. Direct TV is being sued for the frauds they have become.

The suit alleges DirecTV's hi-def channel streams have become so crunched, they no longer meet the commonly accepted definition of the term "HD" and are therefore defrauding subscribers. In other words, DirecTV's HD isn't really HD.

"[DirecTV] knowingly misrepresented the quality of the video in its HD Package to convince consumers to invest in their decoder box and subscribe," the suit states. :eek:

I wouldn't jump into the fire from the pot just yet. Direct TV is being sued for the frauds they have become.

The suit alleges DirecTV's hi-def channel streams have become so crunched, they no longer meet the commonly accepted definition of the term "HD" and are therefore defrauding subscribers. In other words, DirecTV's HD isn't really HD.

"[DirecTV] knowingly misrepresented the quality of the video in its HD Package to convince consumers to invest in their decoder box and subscribe," the suit states. :eek:

Come, FiOS! Quickly!!!

I wouldn't jump into the fire from the pot just yet. Direct TV is being sued for the frauds they have become.

The suit alleges DirecTV's hi-def channel streams have become so crunched, they no longer meet the commonly accepted definition of the term "HD" and are therefore defrauding subscribers. In other words, DirecTV's HD isn't really HD.

"[DirecTV] knowingly misrepresented the quality of the video in its HD Package to convince consumers to invest in their decoder box and subscribe," the suit states. :eek:


That's going to be an interesting class action. It would be nice if it establishes some case law as to the actual meaning of "HDTV" and standards of quality when re-selling HD advertised transmissions. This way consumer's know when buying services advertised as HD it will meet some standard.

The problem with this case is presently and when DTV advertised and sold the "HDTV" services to subscribers the term "HDTV" only has a "generally" agreed upon definition. The FCC has no official definition for HDTV. The only other sources for a technical standard of "HDTV" would be the ATSC or the CEA. The ATSC defines it as a 16:9 image with twice the horizontal and vertical resolution of NTSC, accompanied by 5.1 channels of Dolby Digital audio. The CEA says it's an image with 720 progressive or 1080 interlaced active scan lines. 1280:720p and 1920:1080i would also be considered "HDTV" scan rates. I'm pretty sure DirecTV met these standards. I would say the case would not last one day of discovery if it even get's that far.

As for anyone thinking of switching to DirecTV, follow the actions of the biggest satellite advocate for the past decade, MR. Rupert Murdoch and walk away from the whole concept and invest in media delivered via fiber and cable.

I personally think the best thing can come from FiOS is makign other providers up their game. I doubt Verizon will stun anyone with their customer service any more than Cox, but the mor competetion the healther I think the HD market as a whole will become. Just my 2 cents.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love FIOS. But I'm in Northern RI and will probably not see it for a very long time. OK, so DISH then. Anyone suing DISH?? Sweet Jesus, I just want all my locals in HD!!

Don't get me wrong, I'd love FIOS. But I'm in Northern RI and will probably not see it for a very long time. OK, so DISH then. Anyone suing DISH?? Sweet Jesus, I just want all my locals in HD!!

I mentioned the LIN & Cox issue here is Providence during a recent conversation I had with the Media Bureau, Policy Division of the FCC. I asked that they review both parties compliance with the FCC's good faith negotiation requirements. Given the time that's passed thus far without progress it's now appropriate that the communities of license become formal complainants with the FCC.

I mentioned the LIN & Cox issue here is Providence during a recent conversation I had with the Media Bureau, Policy Division of the FCC. I asked that they review both parties compliance with the FCC's good faith negotiation requirements. Given the time that's passed thus far without progress it's now appropriate that the communities of license become formal complainants with the FCC.

Good call, Steve. There's no way both parties are addressing this local HD issue with any good-faith urgency.

Good call, Steve. There's no way both parties are addressing this local HD issue with any good-faith urgency.

You guy's may enjoy this site.

http://www.fightforhd.com/

Simple solution. Boycott CBS and FOX to the extent possible. Don't watch Katie at 6:30 and don't select those stations unless necessary to watch a favorite show. A drop in viewership could effect reputation and revenue. Only then will can a solution be reached.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love FIOS. But I'm in Northern RI and will probably not see it for a very long time. OK, so DISH then. Anyone suing DISH?? Sweet Jesus, I just want all my locals in HD!!

Well, funny you should ask.

A federal judge ruled earlier last month that some of the features of DVR devices offered by EchoStar Communications (parent company of Dish Network) infringed upon TiVo's patents, awarding the company more than $90 million in damages. The lawsuit was over the "time warp" feature that allows users to record a show while playing back previously recorded material. The ruling has been stayed pending appeal, but if it's ultimately upheld, the single biggest reason to use a DVR would be gone.

But if you don't need to record HD programs for later viewing, you should be good to go. :)

Simple solution. Boycott CBS and FOX to the extent possible. Don't watch Katie at 6:30 and don't select those stations unless necessary to watch a favorite show. A drop in viewership could effect reputation and revenue. Only then will can a solution be reached.

Network television is too big a game for this method. Not enough people are aware of the problem to rally around a solution like this. If COX wanted to gain an edge what they should do while they are still the only cable game in town is send a letter of intent to drop the analog stations to LIN starting the first day of the fall sweeps. This move would be consistent with the conversion to DTV so you have no good faith violations. COX has made attempts to add the DTV stations but failed. This is the end result for LIN. Now you have 300,000 people involved overnight.

[QUOTE=steve125]You guy's may enjoy this site.

Complaint filed. The more I read aout this issue, the more aggravated I get.

[QUOTE=steve125]You guy's may enjoy this site.

Complaint filed. The more I read aout this issue, the more aggravated I get.

Great! That's the best way to cast a vote on this. The more complaints filed the higher this gets on the regulatory radar.

[QUOTE=riguy]

Great! That's the best way to cast a vote on this. The more complaints filed the higher this gets on the regulatory radar.

I also posted a complaint.

I personally think the best thing can come from FiOS is makign other providers up their game. I doubt Verizon will stun anyone with their customer service any more than Cox, but the mor competetion the healther I think the HD market as a whole will become. Just my 2 cents.

Forget about just the HD market -- how about the whole cable/internet market in general? Forgive me for going off on a rant but this should have happened YEARS ago. Cox should not have been able to come in, gobble up every cable company, and run basically all of RI's cable and high-speed internet as a monopoly the way they have. Over time their pricing has gone up and level of quality has steadily gone downhill -- and with no competition or checks-and-balances, they could give a damn about you or their inferior service.

As for anyone thinking of switching to DirecTV, follow the actions of the biggest satellite advocate for the past decade, MR. Rupert Murdoch and walk away from the whole concept and invest in media delivered via fiber and cable.

Yeah and live with Cox's quality of service? No thanks! You can say satelitte sucks for HD, but for everything else, DirecTV's PQ and channel offerings have beaten the stuffing out of Cox's standard-def "digital" service for, oh, only over a decade or so by my estimation. (And if you're a sports fan you ought to do anything BUT what you suggest!). Sure satelitte has questions to answer in regards to HD but I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt than Cox, which still doesn't carry CBS or Fox locally, even YEARS after their launch. No matter who's to blame, the bottom line is: they STILL don't have them. Why do you have faith they'll be delivering the goods as we head into the future? What evidence do you have that they will?

Other areas of the country -- even much smaller markets! -- have alternative options. We've had none. I'm trying not sound cynical but it's going to take, probably, years for Fios to be a viable option for a lot of us here in RI, and only then will Cox really care about turning up the quality of their service. For most of us they're still the only show in town (as much as I can't stand 'em we have precisely 0 other options for high speed internet) and it never should have gotten to this point...

That's good news. It's nice their finally going all digital and the PQ get's better.

So the Sci-fi channel won't look like you're trying to tune in Channel 56 off the rooftop antenna in 1978? Sweet! :rolleyes: :p

Yeah and live with Cox's quality of service? No thanks! You can say satelitte sucks for HD, but for everything else, DirecTV's PQ and channel offerings have beaten the stuffing out of Cox's standard-def "digital" service for, oh, only over a decade or so by my estimation.

Glad that's just your estimation, because factually DTV's QPSK is an inferior method of digital delivery to COX's QAM 256 which allows more data in a much smaller channel, and they use system headroom for better PQ, not channel cramming like DTV. The fact that DTV has been "Digital" for 10 years means nothing. A 300k streaming video online is a "DIGITAL" picture. Does the word digital make that better than COX's PQ? COX's digital tier channels smoke DTV SD's PQ. If you don't think so you need a bigger TV. As far as channels, yes they do have some better channels but the gap is closing.


(And if you're a sports fan you ought to do anything BUT what you suggest!).


What? Maybe that was true 10 years ago. The consolidation of RSN's just mean's now that you have access to 20 infomercial stations, and when a game comes on, ohh yeah it's blacked out. Ask them why they put all the HD-RSN feeds on Spot beams when they offer all RSN's nation wide. The answer is because the infomercials are not HD and the HD games aren't available nation wide.

I'll will give you Sunday ticket though, thats about the only edge DTV has on sports anymore and honestly when that contracts up, good-bye.

Sure satelitte has questions to answer in regards to HD but I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt than Cox, which still doesn't carry CBS or Fox locally, even YEARS after their launch. No matter who's to blame, the bottom line is: they STILL don't have them. Why do you have faith they'll be delivering the goods as we head into the future? What evidence do you have that they will?!).

Take a look at DTV's Hartford CT HD lineup. Then Look at what channels LIN owns in the Hartford television market. Is it offered? The answer is no. DTV is no better a deal maker with LIN to date.

Also, Can you watch all those NFL games on demand on Monday free without using your PVR/DVR? Pause and rewind them or watch any game the pats played this season. It's called on-demand and it's what fiber/Coax based services now have over satellite. Maybe DTV will install an uplink facility on your roof for upstream services.

Other areas of the country -- even much smaller markets! -- have alternative options. We've had none. I'm trying not sound cynical but it's going to take, probably, years for Fios to be a viable option for a lot of us here in RI, and only then will Cox really care about turning up the quality of their service. For most of us they're still the only show in town (as much as I can't stand 'em we have precisely 0 other options for high speed internet) and it never should have gotten to this point...



Thank your federal regulators and your elected congressman for this.

I am starting to feel less and less optimistic about seeing any of the Pat's football games in HD this season on CBS. I thought that I would try strapping an antenna to the roof to get the OTA HD channels everyone is always talks about, but I didn't have any luck. I live directly on the border of Narragansett and Saunderstown. I bought one of those large RCA amplified indoor/outdoor antennas from job lot ($19.99) last weekend. After putting it in the attic, facing it mostly north, and doing a digital channel scan on my tv all that I got was SD channel 6 and barely 12.

Has anyone else from around my area had any luck picking up the OTA HD channels from Providence? If so, do you mind sharing your setup? I would like to keep the cost under $100 because I'm only going to be using it to watch Football. Thanks in advance.

Chris

*Edit* I checked with the antennaweb website and for my location it said to use a Medium directional antenna with preamp... any suggestions?

I am starting to feel less and less optimistic about seeing any of the Pat's football games in HD this season on CBS. I thought that I would try strapping an antenna to the roof to get the OTA HD channels everyone is always talks about, but I didn't have any luck. I live directly on the border of Narragansett and Saunderstown. I bought one of those large RCA amplified indoor/outdoor antennas from job lot ($19.99) last weekend. After putting it in the attic, facing it mostly north, and doing a digital channel scan on my tv all that I got was SD channel 6 and barely 12.

Has anyone else from around my area had any luck picking up the OTA HD channels from Providence? If so, do you mind sharing your setup? I would like to keep the cost under $100 because I'm only going to be using it to watch Football. Thanks in advance.

Chris

*Edit* I checked with the antennaweb website and for my location it said to use a Medium directional antenna with preamp... any suggestions?
I live in Narragansett and I bought a mutidirectional amplified antenna from Radio Shack and put it on the side of my house (about 15 feet off the ground) instead of the roof. I get all the PVD locals with no problems. For football you only need the LIN channels (12&64) and they come in with 80% signal or better all the time. Cost of the antenna is $69.

I am starting to feel less and less optimistic about seeing any of the Pat's football games in HD this season on CBS. I thought that I would try strapping an antenna to the roof to get the OTA HD channels everyone is always talks about, but I didn't have any luck. I live directly on the border of Narragansett and Saunderstown. I bought one of those large RCA amplified indoor/outdoor antennas from job lot ($19.99) last weekend. After putting it in the attic, facing it mostly north, and doing a digital channel scan on my tv all that I got was SD channel 6 and barely 12.

Has anyone else from around my area had any luck picking up the OTA HD channels from Providence? If so, do you mind sharing your setup? I would like to keep the cost under $100 because I'm only going to be using it to watch Football. Thanks in advance.

Chris

*Edit* I checked with the antennaweb website and for my location it said to use a Medium directional antenna with preamp... any suggestions?

For Narragansett zip code on antennaweb I get results indicating medium directional, no pre-amp. At 31 miles from the Providence towers you shouldn't need an amp with a decent antenna. Maybe try a different unit or more precise compass bearing? Channel Master 4228 would do nicely for your application.

I am starting to feel less and less optimistic about seeing any of the Pat's football games in HD this season on CBS. I thought that I would try strapping an antenna to the roof to get the OTA HD channels everyone is always talks about, but I didn't have any luck. I live directly on the border of Narragansett and Saunderstown. I bought one of those large RCA amplified indoor/outdoor antennas from job lot ($19.99) last weekend. After putting it in the attic, facing it mostly north, and doing a digital channel scan on my tv all that I got was SD channel 6 and barely 12.

Has anyone else from around my area had any luck picking up the OTA HD channels from Providence? If so, do you mind sharing your setup? I would like to keep the cost under $100 because I'm only going to be using it to watch Football. Thanks in advance.

Chris

*Edit* I checked with the antennaweb website and for my location it said to use a Medium directional antenna with preamp... any suggestions?

I live in Newport and I get both Fox and CBS over the air. I picked up a $30 indoor antenna from Radio Shack and it works fine. I have my antenna hooked up to a Samsung SIR-T451 HDTV tuner. I get pretty good signal strenght for both CBS and Fox.

Thanks for the advice. I'll try the one from radio shack when I get home from work tonight. If I do get this to work, is there any way that I can use my Cox DVR to record the OTA signal. I'm assuming this won't work but maybe there is a work around.

One more thing... I'm using cheap coaxil from Benny's. Do you think that this would have anything to do with my weak signal strength?

Cheap Coax cable meaning it's not RG-6? If you bought RG-59 cable, that's not going to work.

If it's not RG-6 quad-shielded coax, you are losing signal strength through interference. You must use RG-6 for any digital services. Wal-Mart sells long lines of RG-6 quad shielded for under $20.

Second the recommendation for RG-6 quad shield. It does make a difference.

I purchased an indoor antenna to see if I could easily get signal here in Smithfield, no such luck. I was able to lock onto several HDTV stations, but they weren't the major network stations. So, today I purchased a ChannelMaster 4221 antenna online. I'll let everyone know how it works out. I expect delivery sometime next week.

Death to Cox!! :rolleyes:

OK, maybe death is a little strong, but you know what I mean...

For what it's worth, I have a Terk HDTVa antenna. I know people dis this thing quite a bit but it works fine for me. I'm in Greenville and it pulls in channel 4 (for the Pats) just fine, getting a constant 82 on the strength meter. I prefer channel 4 HD (UHF) vs. channel 12 HD (VHF), it's a lot easier pointing the antenna versus fumbling with those rabbit ears....

OTA, I find Fox 64, which broadcasts in 720p, has a little nicer PQ than CBS4's 1080i.

If Cox and LIN aren't going to offer us CBS and Fox in HD...we'll just find other means...no problem.

Has anyone else from around my area had any luck picking up the OTA HD channels from Providence? If so, do you mind sharing your setup? I would like to keep the cost under $100 because I'm only going to be using it to watch Football. Thanks in advance.

I'm on the pond in Wakefield and have the Channel Master 4228 with the CM 7777 preamp (ordered both from Solid Signal). Excellent signal on all the Providence stations (6,10,12,28,36,64) plus WGBH in Boston. Also, WBZ (4) and WCVB (5) also seem to come in fine with only minimal signal interference.

But the Providence stations are all good to go -- being south you can pretty much aim it in one general direction and not have to worry about rotor-turning with the Providence stations. With all the wind with the winter storms and such we anchored our 4228 permanently against the side of the house, since our old antennas used to blow down at any given opportunity.

Definitely give it a go -- I have no idea why more folks don't give it a chance...you don't need Cox to give you everything you need!! :)

I'm on the pond in Wakefield and have the Channel Master 4228 with the CM 7777 preamp (ordered both from Solid Signal). Excellent signal on all the Providence stations (6,10,12,28,36,64) plus WGBH in Boston. Also, WBZ (4) and WCVB (5) also seem to come in fine with only minimal signal interference.

But the Providence stations are all good to go -- being south you can pretty much aim it in one general direction and not have to worry about rotor-turning with the Providence stations. With all the wind with the winter storms and such we anchored our 4228 permanently against the side of the house, since our old antennas used to blow down at any given opportunity.

Definitely give it a go -- I have no idea why more folks don't give it a chance...you don't need Cox to give you everything you need!! :)


From Burrillville (<300ft ASL) I went from getting DT's from 10,12,64 with a RS UHF yagi to getting DT's from 2,4,5,6,7,10,12,25,27,28,38,44,46,56,64 DT's and subs with the CM4228 and Winguard AP4800 mast mounted. Not one with an SNR below 20db , most actually in the high to mid twenties (80%-90%) from a fixed position. For $80 you can't spend your antenna $$ any better.

PS> Antennaweb.org listed 12.1. as the only DT from my address. It's sometimes very conservative. The picture on 25.1 fox is so much better than 64.1, so go that direction if needed. No sub channel is the reason I would guess.

For $80 you can't spend your antenna $$ any better.

Absolutely agreed.

I'm obviously much further back from the Boston signals so I can only sporadically get anything other than 2,4 and 5. For whatever reason I've never gotten 25.1 in any form down here -- not even a few brief glimpses of it, even though I can get a watchable picture from their analog broadcast. 38.1 and 44's multiple channels come in occasionally, as does 56, but I've read on the Boston HD forum that 25 has a spotty/weak signal compared to other stations in the area.

It's interesting, though, that despite being some 60+ miles or whatever the range is out, that WGBH's 2.1 and 2.2 always come in...is their signal that much stronger than the others or is it the place it occupies on the broadcast spectrum to account for that? Either way I can't complain as otherwise I'd be stuck with Channel 36's non-HD PBS programming and endless cycles of the latest Yanni concert.

It's interesting, though, that despite being some 60+ miles or whatever the range is out, that WGBH's 2.1 and 2.2 always come in...is their signal that much stronger than the others or is it the place it occupies on the broadcast spectrum to account for that? .

Your right WFXT-DT is only running at an ERP of 78.KW. They have had an app out for years to operate at full power that would put them at a whopping 1000.KW. Think that would give them the highest ERP license in Boston for DTV.

As for WGBH I see the same thing. WGBH operating at 700. KW is about 6db stronger than WCVB running at 625.KW just 6MHZ away and from the same tower, actually WGBH is lower in height on the same tower for that matter. Go figure. That's a magical 75kW difference.

steve125, What part of Burrillville are you in, I live on North Main next to bradford court and am concerned that i won't be able to get a decent signal because of the hills around me, namely in the back of my house... even with a 15' mast i don't think it would clear the hill,
any suggestions?

Thank You,
Tim

As for WGBH I see the same thing. WGBH operating at 700. KW is about 6db stronger than WCVB running at 625.KW just 6MHZ away from the same tower, actually WGBH is lower in height on the same tower for that matter. Go figure. That's a magical 75kW difference.

Great info Steve, thanks! Maybe one day some of these Boston channels will up their broadcast power. That seems to be the difference -- down here on the "fringe" in southern RI -- between being able to get them all the time (2), most of the time (5), or not at all (25)!

steve125, What part of Burrillville are you in, I live on North Main next to bradford court and am concerned that i won't be able to get a decent signal because of the hills around me, namely in the back of my house... even with a 15' mast i don't think it would clear the hill,
any suggestions?

Thank You,
Tim

I'm right in the center of Harrisville. From your location it looks like your antenna would need to point to either side of the hill on Chapel, not straight on. You might even be able to point it in the opposite direction to grab reflections off the water tower on Rock Ave. I used to do that with the cherry farm water tower until they took it down. As far as the height of your antenna, if you go too high you may compromise stability. ATSC receivers don't play nice with a changing signal which happens if the antenna should sway in the wind.

Go with the CM4228 and keep the coax line short or add a pre-amp. keep the mount steady and you should be good to go there.

Interesting note below.

Hearst Pulls Digital signal from Cox cable

Omaha's KETV-TV Channel 7 and KETV-DT Channel 20, which are among Omaha's leading analog and digital television stations, respectively, on Sunday announced that the digital high definition signal of KETV-DT is no longer being carried on Cox cable television systems.

The removal of the station’s digital signals from the Cox system is the result of unsuccessful negotiations between representatives of Hearst-Argyle Television, Inc., KETV-TV's parent company, and Cox. Hearst-Argyle is seeking fair and reasonable terms from Cox in return for allowing Cox to carry KETV-DT's programming and charge its subscribers for access to that programming.

So as not to inconvenience a large number of its viewers, Hearst-Argyle will allow Cox to continue to retransmit KETV-TV's primary analog signal while the companies continue to work in good faith toward a resolution of retransmission consent terms. However, Cox has not agreed to terms with Hearst-Argyle for the carriage of KETV-DT's valuable high-definition digital programming.

More detail in this note.

KOCO, Cox dispute HDTV channel costs

--John A, Williams

EDMOND — A dispute about money between Cox Communic-ations and the owners of local ABC affiliate KOCO has caught digital TV viewers in the middle of a public relations conflict.

Cox officials say demands by Hearst Argyle Television Inc., KOCO-TV’s parent company, that Cox Communications pay to carry the channel’s high-definition signal have resulted in the removal of the high-definition channel from the Cox program lineup.

The dispute does not, however, affect KOCO’s primary analog signal on Cox Channel 8 in central Oklahoma, said Tim Tippit, Cox vice president. The high-definition signal was previously carried on Cox Channel 705.

“Hearst Argyle has threatened to withhold their high-definition signal from Cox systems in several cities unless we begin paying what is really an unreasonable amount,” Tippit said. “This, in turn, would result in additional costs to our subscribers. Our corporate office has been involved in intensive negotiations with Hearst Argyle, and our goal is to protect Cox subscribers while assuring them of the best possible viewing experience.”

But Brent Hensley, KOCO-TV/DT president and general manager, said it is Cox Communications that is holding up the talks.

“Cox has been actively promoting to current and prospective subscribers the addition of our digital channel to its lineup, for an additional monthly fee, and we’re certainly supportive of that. But they won’t come to terms with us on providing fair consideration for that right. To allow any re-distributor of our station’s digital signal to benefit economically from our efforts without providing us a reasonable contract for that right would be unacceptable for us.”

Local broadcast channels are not like other channels carried on cable, for which a fee is charged.

“We do not believe that our subscribers should be forced to pay for a channel they can receive for free over the air,” Tippit said.

Hensley said there is another way to look at the situation.

“Cox Cable has taken our digital signal and placed it as a part of their digital tier package and are reaping the benefits of having KOCO-TV local news and ABC’s prime time lineup and ‘Dr. Phil’ and ‘Oprah.’ What we are asking them to do is to compensate us in a reasonable and fair manner for the use of our HD signal that they are repackaging and selling to the consumer.”

Under federal law, broadcast television stations are granted free access to the airwaves. The law also requires that cable companies like Cox seek permission to transmit signals from those stations as part of their cable lineup.

Tippit said Cox does not charge any extra fees to subscribers who receive local broadcast signals on the company’s high-definition channel lineup. The high-definition lineup, which includes both broadcast and cable channels, is part of the package received by all Cox digital cable subscribers.

“There is a basic and very clear principle at work here,” Tippit said. “The local channels have been granted free access to their broadcast channel by the federal government. We do not charge subscribers for them. We are frankly concerned with any effort to turn free television into pay TV.”

Hensley said Hearst Argyle has invested more than $2 million in the build out of KOCO’s digital signal so it could be carried free over the air.

Cox officials say Hearst Argyle rejected Cox’s offer in early September, just 30 days before its existing contract expired. The officials say Hearst Argyle asked for dramatically higher compensation in their counter offer, and left little time to negotiate. Cox requested an extension of the contract until this was resolved, but Hearst Argyle refused.

“We sincerely hope we and Cox can return to negotiations quickly so as not to deprive Cox cable customers of high-definition programming,” Hensley said. “However, our viewers can still receive our high-definition signal using an appropriate tuner or antenna.”

There are about 424,000 Cox Cable subscribers in the Oklahoma City area.

In addition to Oklahoma City, Cox serves four other markets with Hearst Argyle stations — Omaha, New Orleans, Fort Smith and central Florida.

(John A. Williams may be reached via e-mail at jwilliams@edmondsun.com

Interesting. Not to be missed in all this is the timing of these stations demands and refusal for retransmission consent. Sept/Oct; new primetime season, MLB Playoffs, NFL, NHL/NBA season kicks offs. It appears as though the stations have chosen the most inopportune (or opportune depending on your view) to yank their channels in order to force public outcry and box Cox into a public relations corner.

I live in Warwick and picked up an indoor Samsung antenna, which does a great job picking up UHF stations, but I still can't get 12 CBS, any recommendations

I live in Warwick and picked up an indoor Samsung antenna, which does a great job picking up UHF stations, but I still can't get 12 CBS, any recommendations

Because WPRI-DT 12 is on VHF, by nature it will not penetrate into the house as well as all the other's which are UHF as you mentioned. Try getting it closer to a window or try an antenna with greater VHF gain. Also, look out for EMI by moving the antenna as far as possible from any large current or high voltage appliances. VHF is a sucker for EMI. Best option would be to put an antenna outdoors.