Originally posted by pilot20
"No Input Signal"

Had the same message last night watching March Madness on 22-1 from South Bend...... Must have been a CBS issue.

FWIW, I noticed the same thing here in Indy from WISH-DT. Sorry, jckrac, I don't remember what time it happened.

Steve

Ok, the PSIP seems to be working now for WANE and WPTA. Still nothing on WFWA and of course unWISE.

I wonder if the local stations have the HD recorders ready to go for Sunday when the time changes.

I think by the end of the year last year WPTA and WANE had theirs working. UnWISE never did get one, if my memory serves me correct.

Originally posted by bhorrell
I wonder if the local stations have the HD recorders ready to go for Sunday when the time changes.

I think by the end of the year last year WPTA and WANE had theirs working. UnWISE never did get one, if my memory serves me correct.
Oh well, it's not like unWISE passed through HD anyway (at least not during the few times I've watched unWISE-DT in primetime). Post-buyout unWISE is basically an NBC version of WFFT: air the network/syndie shows, nothing else, bank the revenues, ignore DTV.

WANE should be fine; since they normally get their CBS feed from WISH in Indy, they probably get delayed HD from there too (maybe one of the WANE engineers could clarify?).

Originally posted by NoToLowPower
Oh well, it's not like unWISE passed through HD anyway (at least not during the few times I've watched unWISE-DT in primetime). Post-buyout unWISE is basically an NBC version of WFFT: air the network/syndie shows, nothing else, bank the revenues, ignore DTV.

WANE should be fine; since they normally get their CBS feed from WISH in Indy, they probably get delayed HD from there too (maybe one of the WANE engineers could clarify?).

Nope, both the HD receiver and the delay server are local. Only thing Indy controls is the signal.

We talked about the upcoming switch to the delay server today and are prepared for the change.

jckrac,

Will WANE be showing the Masters on Thursday/Friday on the HD channel like last year?

And if you are a golf fan and haven't seen the Masters in HD, it's real cherry. Many consider it reference HD material. Even if you don't like golf tune in and see how 3 dimensional HD makes courses look.

I was just wondering if anyone knows how the possibility of Indiana going to Daylight Savings time might affect DTV in FtWayne? Just curious if it would change broadcast feeds or something else weird that would make more or less HD content available.
Obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I would hate for D.S. to somehow cause the powers that be to screw us out of HDTV :confused:
Anyone know if it will be better/worse/same?

Originally posted by vereekej
jckrac,

Will WANE be showing the Masters on Thursday/Friday on the HD channel like last year?

And if you are a golf fan and haven't seen the Masters in HD, it's real cherry. Many consider it reference HD material. Even if you don't like golf tune in and see how 3 dimensional HD makes courses look.

Last time I heard, I believe the plan was to air it on Thurs/Fri in HD. That discussion was a week or to ago, but I think that is the plan.

Originally posted by laggytoad
I was just wondering if anyone knows how the possibility of Indiana going to Daylight Savings time might affect DTV in FtWayne?

Moving to daylight savings time should provide us more HD content if the local networks have not bought HD delay equipment. The problem with our current lack of DST is nightly programming is downloaded from the satellites on EST DST. Fort Wayne channels are required to tape delay the broadcast for an hour. Someone can correct me, but I doubt all of the local channels have bought HD delay equipment. We will then lose HD programming for the networks that do not have equipment.

Originally posted by TKO
Moving to daylight savings time should provide us more HD content if the local networks have not bought HD delay equipment. The problem with our current lack of DST is nightly programming is downloaded from the satellites on EST DST. Fort Wayne channels are required to tape delay the broadcast for an hour. Someone can correct me, but I doubt all of the local channels have bought HD delay equipment. We will then lose HD programming for the networks that do not have equipment.
15 and 21 have the delay equipment; they had HD going the last time DST was in effect. 33 doesn't have delay equipment. 39 most likely doesn't; they wouldn't need it since they don't simulcast shows in HD, they air a separate HD feed from PBS. Do I even have to say what 55 is like? Until Granite hooks 33 up with some delay equipment or Indiana starts observing DST, the only station DST will affect is 33 (whatever I said about 33 not passing through HD at all was wrong; I just saw Leno in HD; now if 33 could up the power so I wouldn't have to screw around with the Silver Sensor antenna).

Didn't the whole tape delay thing come out of a conspiracy between the stations to be more like the Indy market?

Originally posted by TKO
Fort Wayne channels are required to tape delay the broadcast for an hour.

Why would the Fort Wayne channels be required to tape delay? The South Bend channels just air the programming an hour early. I would think the delay would be very inconvenient for the viewers in Ohio on EDT.

I think the reason they tape delay is that they can make money showing their own programming from 7pm-8pm. They will tell that it is because they are making it easier on us by making the shows on a the same time year round. Is Fort Wayne really that stupid that we can not remember what time shows are on. I forgot we are the dumbest city in America, so maybe we can not remember.

Its hard to believe that it is time for DST again. For those of you who do not know, apparently the lawmakers in Indianapolis are still trying to get DST in Indiana for this year. If it passes, the plan is to have it start in June for this year and then in April like everyone else in subsequent years.

http://www.indystar.com/articles/9/233107-6739-092.html

And the Fort Wayne stations are not required to delay shows an hour. If you ask them (and I have) why they do it, they will say that they do it as a convenience for the people of Fort Wayne, so that our simple minds do not get confused. (Nevermind that all of the cable and satellite programming changes.) The real reason, of course, is that they make money off of the syndicated programs shown between 7pm and 8pm, and they don't want to lose that revenue.

So, enjoy your last night of NBC in HD. Good thing there is not much to watch on NBC these days anyway.

Originally posted by NoToLowPower
15 and 21 have the delay equipment; they had HD going the last time DST was in effect. 33 doesn't have delay equipment. 39 most likely doesn't; they wouldn't need it since they don't simulcast shows in HD, they air a separate HD feed from PBS. Do I even have to say what 55 is like? Until Granite hooks 33 up with some delay equipment or Indiana starts observing DST, the only station DST will affect is 33 (whatever I said about 33 not passing through HD at all was wrong; I just saw Leno in HD; now if 33 could up the power so I wouldn't have to screw around with the Silver Sensor antenna).

Didn't the whole tape delay thing come out of a conspiracy between the stations to be more like the Indy market?

I wouldn't call it a "conspiracy", but a move that made business sense. By time-shifting by an hour, it allows that hour of "prime access" (between 7 and 8 P.M.) available year round.

Look at it this way: the delay server isn't cheap. But having that extra hour year round means more money to pay for those gadgets!

As one of the people that have to keep an eye on said server, let me say I'd much rather take the network live year round, especially on the weekends when golf runovers notoriously screw up the so-called hour delay.

Hey, maybe unWISE will take all that money they saved from firing their entire news staff and buy a delay server!

Then again, maybe not.

Well, daylight savings time started today, and I just tuned into Law and Order: Criminal Intent on unWISE. I'm shocked! Its actually in HD. Did unWISE get a delay server and not tell anyone?

On second look, it looks like they are airing "Crossing Jordan" even though the TV Guide says its supposed to be Criminal Intent. So, they aren't delaying. They are just airing it on time like it should be. Criminal Intent is airing on the analog channel and Crossing Jordan is airing on the HD channel. I wonder how long before they realize their mistake?

Originally posted by tdodel
I wonder how long before they realize their mistake?

Sssshhhhhh

Maybe their doing it on purpose so that they won't be wasting the use of all their HD equipment. Hopefully they'll continue to do this, I actually prefer that shows be on 1 hour earlier.

Who knows though. Come June 5th hopefully it won't matter.

Originally posted by vereekej
Who knows though. Come June 5th hopefully it won't matter. The bill has been amended. We'll have to wait until next April for DST.

Plus CT/ET border counties can pass a county resolution to ignore DST.
SB 127 Status Page (http://www.in.gov/apps/lsa/session/billwatch/billinfo?year=2005&session=1&request=getBill&docno=127)

It is still in the Indiana House. It still needs to be passed and sent back to the senate with the amendments. (The original senate bill was to raise the speed limit on US20/33 around Elkhart/South Bend and had NOTHING to do with time zones!)

JL

Changes I've noticed on unWISE, other than no HD. It looks like they have PSIP guide working, although at the moment it only goes a couple hours in the future. They also put the 21 radar on 33-2 (not sure why?), and they are broadcasting in Dolby 3/0.0 or 3 front channels with the stereo sound comming out of the front left and front right, with the center channel being unused. This causes problems because my receiver cannot use this for Dolby Surround.

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
They also put the 21 radar on 33-2 (not sure why?)
Granite trying to make up for the lack of HD? I kid, of course. I have a few theories:

1. unWISE is airing 21's radar as a placeholder so that they can air the WB network sometime soon. unWISE airs the WB on cable in a way similar to how WANE does UPN (they do the switching, news promos, PSAs, etc, but run it as a separate channel). Expanding to DTV makes perfect sense: more audience, more ad money (Granite needs all the money they can get at this point, even if the DTV audience is sparse).

2. ABC's restarting their digital news channel in a few months, so if WPTA were to put that on 21-2, the radar could still be watched on 33-2. Maybe that's what Granite meant by "expanding news coverage." :rolleyes:

3. Granite still thinks it's funny to confuse 33's viewers with the whole 21 on 33 deal.

WISE is planning on using 33-2 for the NBC national/local weather channel.
Also WISE is in the process of purchasing a HD Delay Server. Hopefully, by the end of the month WISE will again have HD.

Originally posted by ENGjas
WISE is planning on using 33-2 for the NBC national/local weather channel.
Also WISE is in the process of purchasing a HD Delay Server. Hopefully, by the end of the month WISE will again have HD.
Another weather channel? :confused: Anyway, good news on the delay server; I figured the new ownership would come through. Now if NBC could cut some of the dead weight off their schedule...

Wow, this thread is nearly as dead as WISE33 News. A few questions:

1. When WPTA preempts ABC programming for Billy Graham/other non-ABC shows, can their delay server save the preempted HD shows and air them in the early morning like they do with analog, or does it only delay for so long?

2. To WISE: Conan O'Brien's going HD soon. You guys up for carrying the show? If so, I'll gratefully take back any unWISE references.

3. Anybody try to get a satellite waiver from WFFT?

4. Anybody in Meth Lab Country (AKA Dekalb, Noble, Lagrange counties) have any luck with South Bend DTs? So far I've only gotten 22 late at night with a fluctuating signal. It's a lot like how 15 does digital, but with a much better weather channel. Other stations occasionally come in with single-digit signal levels, no pictures as of yet (to find signal levels, I use WatchHDTV, a program for ATI HDTV Wonder which an AVS user wrote and posted somewhere on this site). My main objective is to get 28; I can do w/o the others. Once I succeed, I will never watch WFFT until they step their DTV game up. For the record, I am a couple of minutes off the I-69/US-6 junction.

Also, to WANE: Not a question, but kudos to you guys and CBS on the Masters. The zooming in of Tiger's chip shot birdie on the 16th was priceless.

Originally posted by NoToLowPower


4. Anybody in Meth Lab Country (AKA Dekalb, Noble, Lagrange counties)

that's not funny... :(

have any luck with South Bend DTs? So far I've only gotten 22 late at night with a fluctuating signal. It's a lot like how 15 does digital, but with a much better weather channel. Other stations occasionally come in with single-digit signal levels, no pictures as of yet (to find signal levels, I use WatchHDTV, a program for ATI HDTV Wonder which an AVS user wrote and posted somewhere on this site). My main objective is to get 28; I can do w/o the others. Once I succeed, I will never watch WFFT until they step their DTV game up. For the record, I am a couple of minutes off the I-69/US-6 junction.

Also, to WANE: Not a question, but kudos to you guys and CBS on the Masters. The zooming in of Tiger's chip shot birdie on the 16th was priceless.

I'm up by tri lakes and I get all of SB stations good, especially 28 in HDTV. Been watching the NASCAR races in HDTV.

Anybody got an update on when (if ever) Comcast is going to start carrying WPTA in HD?

Originally posted by ENGjas
WISE is planning on using 33-2 for the NBC national/local weather channel.
I just started reading up on this "NBC Weather Plus" channel; this would have been a cool idea if 33 still had a news operation. Will WPTA's forecasters do local cut-ins? There's too much Curtis Smith as it is.

WPTA's HD Delay server is just that. It will only delay for up to two hours.

As far as Conan O' Brian in HD, WISE will be airing this in HD once the delay server is in place. (Still have no definite time on that yet, but hopefully more to come on that in the next week or two)

As far as the question regarding the NBC Weather channel. When it does start appearing on WISE, there will not be any local inserts for a while until WISE's infrastructure is set up for it.

I guess this is off topic but I can't find a better place to ask. Is anyone using PBS39 to automatically set the time on their VCR or DVD recorder? This worked for me several years ago and has not worked for a couple years. It won't work on my VCR or DVD recorder. Any ideas?

Originally posted by diehard_1955
I'm up by tri lakes and I get all of SB stations good, especially 28 in HDTV. Been watching the NASCAR races in HDTV.

Hey diehard_1955,
I'm near Busco and am planning on installing another antenna to get the SB Fox station. I was curious what equipment (type of ant, pre-amp, tuner?) you are using and approximately what the signal strength is.

Anyone else receiving the South Bend Fox care to list their equipment?

Thanks!

Originally posted by random58
I guess this is off topic but I can't find a better place to ask. Is anyone using PBS39 to automatically set the time on their VCR or DVD recorder? This worked for me several years ago and has not worked for a couple years. It won't work on my VCR or DVD recorder. Any ideas?
It's never worked for me, whether on my JVC SVHS deck or my no-name TV/VCR combo, so I'm guessing PBS isn't doing time.

Also, thanks ENGjas. It'll be interesting to see how Conan turns out. HD might not be good for him though. :D

Originally posted by laggytoad
Hey diehard_1955,
I'm near Busco and am planning on installing another antenna to get the SB Fox station. I was curious what equipment (type of ant, pre-amp, tuner?) you are using and approximately what the signal strength is.

Anyone else receiving the South Bend Fox care to list their equipment?

Thanks!

I'm using a channel master 4228 antenna and a 7778 pre-amp. I have two, one pointed to SB and the other to FW. I get a signal strength from 28 of 76.

If you go this way, either mount the antenna at different location and then you can combine them, or mount them on the same pole, but you can't combine them. My RCA DTC100 has two inputs, so I ran two runs of coax down to my TV.

diehard

Looks like Conan O'Brien is flipping the HD switch next Tuesday. Anybody know if WISE will have their delay server running by then? I've been looking forward to this, and now it looks like it'll have been for nothing...

No, WISE will not have the delay server yet.

I appreciate the reply, and I trust you'll keep us updated on the progress of getting it up and running. :)

Originally posted by ENGjas
No, WISE will not have the delay server yet.

nudge nudge wink wink you wanna have them forget to delay the feed that night so conan will air at 11:35 on the digital channel?

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
nudge nudge wink wink you wanna have them forget to delay the feed that night so conan will air at 11:35 on the digital channel?

YES PLEASE! :D
In fact, is there anyone in this forum who prefers the SD feed at the correct time as opposed to the HD feed an hour earlier?

Quick antenna question: Would there still be a problem with signals if I mounted the Yagi style antenna (aimed at SB) about 8 foot above my current antenna that is pointed towards Fort Wayne? I was thinking that it was only a problem if the antennas were mounted within 4 feet of each other, but it has been awhile since I researched antenna placement.

Great News! Comcast in Fort Wayne just added TNTHD!! Finally, a decent selection of free movies in HD.

Does anyone know if the network series reruns TNT carries (ER, Law & Order, X-Files) are in hi-def?

Has anyone been able to find TNT-HD on an unencrypted QAM channel?

I'd prefer the HD feed an hour earlier. Who wouldn't?

How much of the delay server costs is just a waste considering SB127 making this the last year of no DST?

JL

Originally posted by justalurker
How much of the delay server costs is just a waste considering SB127 making this the last year of no DST?

JL

I really want that bill to pass, but I highly doubt it will.

Has anybody else read the hype press releases that WANE and WISE/WPTA put out almost a week ago when the storms came? They're still at Mediawatch (unless, by the time you read this, they've taken them off) Both mention their use of OTA DTV to broadcast their respective radars (which, if you discount wattage, are virtually the same, at least in software).
WANE:
...For over a year, WANE TV has been triple-casting severe weather alerts on WANE TV, UPN Fort Wayne, and the Local Weather Station on digital air waves and on cable throughout all of northeast Indiana, all in the effort of keeping viewers safe...
WISE (now this one was hype):
...Both WISE and WPTA are now also using the power of their respective digital broadcast channels to keep Ft. Wayne viewers aware of severe weather.

“Not only are we providing live radar during regularly scheduled newscasts and on program interrupts as conditions warrant, but we are also providing a live continuous feed of Doppler radar to viewers who have digital television sets” [Jerry Giesler, Granite Fort Wayne Exec. VP] said.

“You can always find live radar on WPTA DT/21.2 and WISE DT/33.2. This service is available free, over the air. You don’t have to have cable to see live local radar 24 hours a day, 7 days a week,” according to Giesler...

The funny thing is that the rest of the press release was an attempt to try and justify the "shared services" news purger. I remember back in the days of NBC33 where there was a commercial with Greg Shoup pimping the benefits of 33's NEXRAD radar over less powerful live radars (like how it could detect wind speed and lightning strikes and all that stuff). How things change.

Question to ENGjas: if News Now on 33 runs late and Frasier cuts into the opening credits of Leno (which didn't happen the night I typed this), will the HD server kick in at the start of Leno regardless of what's airing on analog 33?

WISE is currently tying to correct the issue of up-cutting Leno. This "should" be corrected very soon. As far as the HD question goes, the HD would only come up at the same time time that the analog would.


On a side note regarding radars: You are correct about the power of the Nexrad 33 radar, but the radar images were always 10 to 15 minutes old.
Nexrad 33 was delayed data from the NWS radar in North Webster IN.

With regard to the last message, Both the WANE and WPTA Radars are live images with local radars at the two stations.

Threads merged.

I would prefer to have the HD programming come on at its regular time.

In regards to Comcast having TNTHD, I have been watching it for several days now. Everything is on in HD that I have seen. Law and Order, every movie, and all of the basketball games.

Now if Comcast would only add ABC in HD...I guess I'll just keep dreaming about that one.

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
I really want that bill to pass, but I highly doubt it will.

Wow, you could knock me over with a feather. All that's left to do is have Daniels sign it and figure out what timezone to be in.

Hey, got an idea for WISE.

I'm not sure how far along they are to getting an hd server, but until then maybe they could try something. On shows such as ER, West Wing, L&O Trial by Jury, Conan, etc. that come across on the SD feed as letterboxed widescreen, how about zooming the show to fill the 16:9 frame for broadcast? Peeps with a widescreen set view these shows with a black boarder around all sides. Granted, this would not be as good as HD, but it would be better than black bars around the entire picture.

I've noticed that on WANE's HD feed, the sound has clicks and pops, especially noticable during music. I've got two sources for HD, over the air and cable, and the sound has the same problem from both places. Could this be a problem with their HD delay server?

Also, how long until WANE is able to pass 5.1 along with the dramas? I know they can do it during sporting events, but I've never seen it on dramas.

I have been having that same problem even before time change. My newest LG Tuner really has a hard time with their audio. The older LG will simply just lose the audio at times. They both work great on every other channel.

I also have noticed it during the winter. I just haven't watched much tv lately and forgot that it was like that. I've used a Samsung, Sylvania, and an LG tuner and the audio clicks and pops happened on all of them. It almost seems like it is a problem with their DD encoder or other sound equipment.

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
Hey, got an idea for WISE.

On shows such as ER, West Wing, L&O Trial by Jury, Conan, etc. that come across on the SD feed as letterboxed widescreen, how about zooming the show to fill the 16:9 frame for broadcast? WNDU is doing that for their delay of Conan O'Brien. Normally they are live HD, but Conan gets bumped for Friends and Spin City. Unforunately the SD upconvert is squished vertically enough that there is still a slight bar at top an bottom ... but the full width is there.

WNDU stretches all of their upconverts this way ... cropping any 4:3 that happens to be upconverted.

PS: My state rep is talking about joining the coalition for Central Time ... I'd like to know where to join the one for Eastern Time. The sun sets at my house at 4:15pm in December, Central Time. (Probably 4pm in Fort Wayne.)

JL

WISE has finally received the OK to order the delay HD server. As soon as the manufacture can get it shipped out, WISE will again have HD.

Originally posted by ENGjas
WISE has finally received the OK to order the delay HD server. As soon as the manufacture can get it shipped out, WISE will again have HD.
Great news; thanks, ENGjas. unWISE no more. :D The only problem: if, when the Gov signs the DST bill, Indiana goes Central, does the one-hour-delay situation continue? If that happens, the South Bend stations gain one more out-of-market viewer for at least half the year. I'll take the network shows in real time over thousandth-run syndies (cough, Everybody Loves Raymond, cough, Friends, cough) any day.

Originally posted by ENGjas
WISE has finally received the OK to order the delay HD server. As soon as the manufacture can get it shipped out, WISE will again have HD.

Great news. Any idea when either 21 or 33 will pass along 5.1 sound?

(lol, i know, give us a little bit, and all we want is more more more)

Either WISE or WPTA will pass 5.1. Has not been decided which station will use the 5.1 equipment yet. As far as time zones go, At this time, there has been no decisions on whether or not there would be any delaying of primetime if Indiana goes to Central time.

During CBS Prime time HD Delay, we are noticing a popping sound occasionally. It is really more notable during music opens to such shows as CSI. We are working to resolve this issue. At no time should you loose audio completely. That is another completely different problem. A problem that no one has brought to our attention and no one from our station has noticed that problem.

During the other half of the year, when Indiana aligns with New York, you should never hear popping. We did find a couple of early receivers (specifically the Motorola box) that had several problems that no other receiver experienced. After searching the web, that was a known problem with those receivers. What I can tell you is that WANE-DT was one of the first CBS stations in the country to have its HD audio during primetime controlled by the network. This allowed for audio 5.1 switching when the network needed it. CBS had a rough time the first part of this year with switching at the correct time. This may have led to no center channel (dialog) for a minute or so, but never a complete audio loss.

We monitor our signal on several different brands of receivers and have never noticed an audio problem during the winter months other than the CBS switching problem back in March of this year.

On another note, the engineers at WANE vote for EASTERN time.

Hope this helps. We will keep you up to date on progress at WANE-DT and the delayed HD audio pops.

I have had times where I have gotten no audio on 15-1. I'm using a sony hd-300 receiver.

I'll try to get specific times if I notice the issue again, maybe that could help a little.

I vote for Eastern time as well, I want the extra daylight during the summer after work. Should be some delay servers for sale too if it goes to Eastern Daylight. We probably could modify one into one heck of a tivo if we could get our hands on one.

Will WISE pass through the Kentucky Derby in HD?

EDIT (5/7/05): The broadcast has started and no HD. Come on guys, flip the switch!

EDIT #2 (5/7/05, 5:19 PM): Giacomo wins the Derby in glorious standard definition. It's a Saturday, so I expected this to happen.

During CSI tonight, I'm noticing the pops and I lost all audio a couple of times. For the record i'm using an lg 4200 tuner.

Regarding no audio on WANE, I got no audio during Still Standing this past Monday night (5/2). It was like that for at least the first half of the show, I stopped checking after that. I'm using an Elgato EyeTV 500 to tune in the OTA signal on my computer. Other than that I have noticed no issues with WANE's sound.

We did experience a technical problem Monday night with a decoder that does not like it when CBS sent UPN HD material earlier in the day. The problem was noticed and reset.

Working with the manufacturer of the decoder, we believe we have corrected that problem and it should hopefully not happen again.

I personally watched CSI and did not loose audio during the show.

I was watching at my home with an LG LST-3100A.

DST is law. Now: Eastern or Cental?

Anyway, I just obtained a Antennasdirect XG91, so maybe I'll finally be able get WSJV-DT when it goes up on the tower (for years, I've been watching off a Radio Shack omni antenna 2/5 the way up). Has anybody in NE IN ever pulled anything from the Indianapolis area? (WNDY-DT would be cool to get; UPN in HD and without the multicast overcompression.)

Back again to revive a dead thread...

WISE is now 0 for 2 with the Triple Crown in HD. Is 33 on autopilot on the weekends or is somebody not aware of the horse racing HD simulcasts?

ENGjas,
Do you have an ETA on the WISE HD server? I'm reading the Conan in HD thread and am feeling really left out. Also, people in that thread say the the later Conan broadcast is also in HD. Would WISE pass that along in HD?

Thanks

WISE's HD server is still being built. Not sure of the ETA. Should be within the next couple of weeks I would guess. It takes the manufacturer about 4 - 6 weeks to build and configure the unit. As far as the second Conan, I would guess that will be in HD. Not sure at what time this comes from NBC.

Originally posted by ENGjas
WISE's HD server is still being built. Not sure of the ETA. Should be within the next couple of weeks I would guess. It takes the manufacturer about 4 - 6 weeks to build and configure the unit. As far as the second Conan, I would guess that will be in HD. Not sure at what time this comes from NBC.

thanks for the update

Anyone read the legislation that is currently in debate that would push back the analog cutoff deadline to 12/31/08?

This is bad news for those of us wanting FOX (WFFT) in HD. If WFFT sticks to their current mindset that they won't begin broadcasting in HD until they are forced to this means 3 1/2 more years of their crummy analog signal. FOX has had a lot of good HD programming lately too. i.e. all the movies they have been showing as of lately, Nascar, Football this fall, the list goes on and on.

Looks like more of us will have to get the equipment to get S.B. Fox.

If they push back the date, then I'll definilty install an antenna pointed towards SB. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to get it without much effort. With my indoor Silver Sensor pointed towards FW, I get analog 16, 22, and 28 quite nice. The audio is perfect, but the picture has a bit of fuzz, but that is with a little indoor pointed in the wrong direction. I'm sure an outside antenna would definitly do the trick.

Anyone read the legislation that is currently in debate that would push back the analog cutoff deadline to 12/31/08?

This is bad news for those of us wanting FOX (WFFT) in HD. If WFFT sticks to their current mindset that they won't begin broadcasting in HD until they are forced to this means 3 1/2 more years of their crummy analog signal. FOX has had a lot of good HD programming lately too. i.e. all the movies they have been showing as of lately, Nascar, Football this fall, the list goes on and on.

Looks like more of us will have to get the equipment to get S.B. Fox.


WFFT is already broadcasting a digital signal, it is very low power and not in HD. The analog cutoff date is just about having a digital signal.

WFFT is already broadcasting a digital signal, it is very low power and not in HD. The analog cutoff date is just about having a digital signal.

Point being that if they aren't broadcasting an analog signal at all they will pretty much be forced to increase the strength of their digital signal. Since they already have the capability for a digital signal their can't be much more expense involved with upgrading to HD. Plus, I'll take the 480p signal. It's still leaps better than analog although not as good as HD.

If WFFT sticks to their current mindset that they won't begin broadcasting in HD until they are forced to this means 3 1/2 more years of their crummy analog signal.
That's as certain as the hue of the sky. WFFT is just a money-raking operation that adheres to the minimum guidelines (i.e. DTV, E/I). They might as well be a low power operation (analog, I mean). It's sad when a translator of a religious station is more powerful than a digital signal of a fully-licensed network affiliate.

With that said, why did WFFT get 36 for a DTV channel assignment? The FOX station in Toledo broadcasts on the same number, and I can just barely pull in a signal from that (only at night).

I have been having a problem with WPTA lately. The signal fluctuates alot from 85 to 0. I have checked all the other FW channels and they are steady as a rock, only WPTA flutuates.

Does anyone know if they are having problems? Or is anyone seeing the same problem?

This bites since South Bend doesn't have a HD channel in ABC, only analog for now.

diehard

WPTA has always been the flakiest for me, but it's been much worse in the last month or so. Sometimes it's solid, but othertimes it just drops to 0 for no apparent reason. Glad to see it's not just me! Not glad to see that they may be having an issue...

I haven't noticed signal dropouts from WPTA. However, they're definitely killing my Bambi buzz right about now. :p Delay server problems?

I'm getting All but Fox (obviously) in crystal clear with my Terk antenna... yet it says "no signal" and shows no signal strength. Quite annoying... any suggestions?


I'm off of Highway 1 (Dupont), 1 mile east of Tonkel

Ha, I am using the app hdtval21 created for the ATI HDTV card...and it doesn't show that annoying message... woot!!!!


Now, to wait for WISE to get that delay device installed.. HDTV Conan

I'm getting All but Fox (obviously) in crystal clear with my Terk antenna... yet it says "no signal" and shows no signal strength. Quite annoying... any suggestions?


I'm off of Highway 1 (Dupont), 1 mile east of Tonkel
I live in Leo and can just about always lock on to Fox. I have a Channlemaster 4228.

I live in Leo and can just about always lock on to Fox. I have a Channlemaster 4228.


Hmm.. about what compass direction do you have it at?

Hmm.. about what compass direction do you have it at?
somewhere around 235°, damn near the same way you would have a direct tv sat dish pointed.

To paraphrase several thread titles on the HDTV Programming board:

The Belmont Stakes in HD on WISE-DT? No.

Anyone notice very poor color on WISE tonight? (Thomas Crown Affair) It's almost like the movie is in B&W. Even the commercials are very poor PQ and color.

Any status on the WISE delay server?

The WISE delay server should be shipped and installed sometime this week!

WPTA has always been the flakiest for me, but it's been much worse in the last month or so. Sometimes it's solid, but othertimes it just drops to 0 for no apparent reason. Glad to see it's not just me! Not glad to see that they may be having an issue...

Cool, glad it isn't my equipment.

I have one 4228 pointed to SB and the another 4228 pointed to FW and WPTA was the only station doing that. Of course WFFT was rock steady at signal strength 16 LOL

I watched the Thomas Crown affair last night and I didn't see any problem with it in HD. Just that the 5.1 didn't come thru. Only DD.

diehard

On TNT's HD station (Comcast 204), movies appear on my widescreen HD TV incorrectly when the original movie, aspect ratio was 2.35. It fills the screen (which it shouldn't), and people and objects look out of proportion. When the original movie was 1.85, it displays correctly. (On 2.35 DVD's I get a small black border at the top and bottom of the screen, as I would expect.)

I don't see any setting in my TV's set up to adjust for this. When it gets a hi-def signal it disables the aspect controls.

Is this problem unique to my model TV (Sony Grand Wega rear projection LCD, 50WE610), or is it a Comcast issue or a TNT issue?

*rubs eyes*



is that...Leno in HD?

Conan next in HD??!!!

awww what a TEASE, it's back to 4:3 digital. They must have been testing it... I'll set it to record Conan and see if they switch it on for him.

Thanks Andy for the tip, you logged off of IM before I could talk to you. Looks like Conan in HD tonight. Leno click back to SD for the end of the show. It will be interesting to see if the later broadcast of Conan is also HD as has been reported in the Conan thread.

Sweeeeet I recorded it, and Conan was in HD goodness. I'll try to take some screen caps later.

http://img192.echo.cx/img192/637/conan0cj.th.jpg (http://img192.echo.cx/my.php?image=conan0cj.jpg)



http://img192.echo.cx/img192/6081/conantom5ig.th.jpg (http://img192.echo.cx/my.php?image=conantom5ig.jpg)

35 minutes in, and they switched the HD off. Guess they are experimenting, and I hope they have it on full force next week!



EDIT: They turned it back on at 47 mins in, in time for the musical guest.

The HD on on WISE is triggered manually by the MCR operator. They need to go back to the upconvert before any local break. Sometimes the operator will forget to go back. At WPTA, the HD switchover is automatic with the control board. This is being worked out at WISE. Hopefully within the following week, it can also be automatic.

http://img192.echo.cx/img192/637/conan0cj.th.jpg (http://img192.echo.cx/my.php?image=conan0cj.jpg)



http://img192.echo.cx/img192/6081/conantom5ig.th.jpg (http://img192.echo.cx/my.php?image=conantom5ig.jpg)

He finally replaced the 4:3 plasma with a widescreen.

ENGjas, thanks for getting wise up and running with HD. Makes watching conan a lot better. Now I don't have to switch to analog and zoom to view it correclty on my widescreen.

Conan doesn't look half bad in HD. He must have some good makeup artists. Thanks to the WISE engineers for ending the HD hiatus. I doubt the PR department will get excited about the new HD programming; they're still too busy trying to convince the public that using WISE to carbon copy the 21 news is "expanded coverage."

Also, after much screwing around, I now have a tower setup with an XG91 attached to a rotor. There a 100-foot length of RG-6 coax going from the antenna to the ATI HDTV Wonder in my computer (splitting to my HDTV receiver and the HDTV Wonder screws up channels I'll talk about later). There is no preamp. 15, 33, and 39's DT signals read in the 80s. 21 is a steady 94. Now here's the surprise: when properly tuned, WFFT-DT comes in at a whopping 4 to 8%! Take that, Nexstar! At least it's proven that the signal does exist here in the vast wasteland of northern Dekalb County. I guess WFFT will just have to drop the power some more.

But I didn't get the XG91 to just get Fort Wayne channels; South Bend was the real goal. With the exception of WHME, I was able to get all SB/Elkhart DTs. From one rotor position, most are 60s (WNDU is 45%). Since WSJV comes in just fine, mission accomplished. Hopefully they'll carry out their construction permit soon and go to full power. I know I'll be watching a lot more NASCAR. WFFT just lost a viewer for the time being.

Extra fringe signal-hunting was mostly fruitless. I wondered if I could get WNDY UPN out of Marion because of its wattage and closer proximity to FW than the other Indy stations. I managed to get two seconds out of that station before it went out; it gets 4-12%, sometimes up to 25%. I was still pleased though. Would a preamp help here?

ADDITION: I'm now getting WBGU PBS Bowling Green, OH in the 50s. Too bad I couldn't get them when they aired a documentary on The Ramones (WFWA never aired it, but they'll air a Lawrence Welk documentary given the opportunity). It's the first four-subchannel station I've seen; no HD.

SECOND ADDITION: I guess I should have said that those signal readings were taken at night; in the day, only Fort Wayne stations come in. Troposphering got my hopes up a little too high.

THIRD ADDITION: A night later, I've got a solid lock on WNDY UPN, 91%. Do they do HD passthrough from UPN?

Las Vegas in HD - go, 33, go...

EDIT: Leno and Conan too. Nice job, 33.

ADDITION: I'm now getting WBGU PBS Bowling Green, OH in the 50s.

THIRD ADDITION: A night later, I've got a solid lock on WNDY UPN, 91%. Do they do HD passthrough from UPN?


WBGU-DT 56 gets out a great signal. I'm on the northside of Indy near Carmel and I see it virtually anytime there is some tropospheric enhancement from the northeast, and I'm 143 miles from their tower.

BTW, I bought an XG91 last year to experiment with and it sure seems to be a very good UHF antenna. It's very directional, which is a plus for picking up DTV stations, especially those with any distance. My permanent UHF setup is utilizing the Triax Unix 100 which is almost identical to the XG91. I have two of them horizontally stacked @ 30 ft. with the CM 7775 preamp on the line. MAX HD in Greensburg, IN designed my antenna setup. I've included a pic of it, if you'd care to look.

And, yes, WNDY-DT 32 does pass HD from UPN. It was one of the first UPN stations to do so.

Steve

WBGU-DT 56 gets out a great signal. I'm on the northside of Indy near Carmel and I see it virtually anytime there is some tropospheric enhancement from the northeast, and I'm 143 miles from their tower.

BTW, I bought an XG91 last year to experiment with and it sure seems to be a very good UHF antenna. It's very directional, which is a plus for picking up DTV stations, especially those with any distance. My permanent UHF setup is utilizing the Triax Unix 100 which is almost identical to the XG91. I have two of them horizontally stacked @ 30 ft. with the CM 7775 preamp on the line. MAX HD in Greensburg, IN designed my antenna setup. I've included a pic of it, if you'd care to look.
Nice setup. I'm not too far outside of WBGU's CP coverage area according to the FCC, which might explain my ability to get it at all. I've been able to get WCMH Columbus and WTOL Toledo very late at night, no doubt a tropospheric doing. The end of the antenna cable going into my computer is very screwy, so any slight movement of it can get rid of all distant reception (or reduce it to 4-12%). As long as there's an out-of-town HD Fox station to get, I'm satisfied with the XG91.

WISE33 surprises once again:
(from Fort Wayne MediaWatch) (http://mediawatch.homestead.com/giesler.html)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

June 20, 2005

GRANITE BROADCASTING UPGRADES WISE-TV HIGH DEFINITION OPERATION

Viewers now able to see programs offered in HD all year round

(Ft. Wayne, IN) – June 20, 2005 – WISE-TV parent company Granite Broadcasting has made it possible for High Definition television set owners to see NBC programming offered in the revolutionary format 12 months a year.

Jerry Giesler, Executive Vice President of Ft. Wayne Operations for Granite said, “Granite has made a significant investment that the previous owners of WISE weren’t willing to make. We needed technology that allowed us to “store” NBC High Definition programming when most of the rest of the nation converts to daylight savings time.” Giesler added: “Now, no matter what time zone the state of Indiana observes, our area viewers will be able to enjoy High Definition NBC Programming like The Tonight Show, ER, Will and Grace and Law and Order. The Summer and Winter Olympics will both be available in High Definition from this point forward.”

Due to the state’s practice of not observing daylight savings time, WISE–TV was not able to record NBC programming in the High Definition format for the necessary one hour prime time delay.

According to Giesler, “As thousands of our viewers buy new High Definition television sets, we want to make sure they can see and hear this great format, whatever our time zone.”

In March of 2005, Granite Broadcasting Corporation announced that the FCC approved the completion of its sale of WPTA-TV (ABC) to Malara Broadcasting. In a related transaction, Granite Broadcasting Corporation purchased WISE-TV (NBC) from New Vision Television. Since that time, Granite has operated both stations under a shared services agreement (SSA) with Malara.

Granite operates in geographically diverse markets reaching over 6.0% of the nation's television households. The Company's station portfolio consists of four NBC affiliates, one ABC affiliate, one CBS affiliate and two major market WB affiliates. The NBC affiliates are KSEE-TV, Fresno-Visalia, California, WEEK-TV, Peoria-Bloomington, Illinois, WISE-TV, Ft. Wayne, Indiana and KBJR-TV, Duluth, Minnesota and Superior, Wisconsin. The ABC affiliate is WKBW-TV, Buffalo, New York, The CBS affiliate is WTVH-TV, Syracuse, New York. The WB affiliates are KBWB-TV, San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, California, and WDWB-TV, Detroit, Michigan.

For more information, contact:

Jerry L. Giesler
Exec. Vice President
Fort Wayne Operations
Granite Broadcasting Corporation
260-750-8384
jerryg@wpta.com

I guess tonight I'll be having crow for dinner with a side dish of humble pie. :o Thanks, WISE. I liked the little diss on the previous owners.

Awww, no jab at Nexstar?

heh

WISE33 surprises once again:
(from Fort Wayne MediaWatch) (http://mediawatch.homestead.com/giesler.html)

Due to the state’s practice of not observing daylight savings time, WISE–TV was not able to record NBC programming in the High Definition format for the necessary one hour prime time delay.Odd that a one hour delay isn't necessary just a few miles away in South Bend Indiana.

If the state (heaven forbid!) goes to Central Time next year, will that one hour delay be necessary year round?

JL

I live just outside of Marion, I have a CM4228 and a DB8 with a CM7777 preamp. AntennaWeb shows that I am between 51 and 54 miles from the main towers in Indy and 47 to 48 miles from the Ft. Wayne towers. The antennas are both in the attic.

I am able to get Indy and Laf. (6 ABC, 8 CBS, 13 NBC, 20 PBS, 23 UPN, 29 WB, 59 FOX and 18 CBS from Laf) with no problem. most come in around 80 with 23 and 29 in the low 90's, and 18 around 75. I even picked up 63 PAX from Bloomington (70+ miles) at 68-72 by turning just a little more south.

Maybe I was spoiled by how easy it was to get Indy but after trying both the 4228 and the DB8 I had very little luck with Ft. Wayne. I get 21 to lock for a few minutes then its gone, no other channel will even lock and they only occationally show any singel at all.

Should I keep trying or are the Ft. Wayne stations just at low power?

Thanks for any input.

Odd that a one hour delay isn't necessary just a few miles away in South Bend Indiana.

If the state (heaven forbid!) goes to Central Time next year, will that one hour delay be necessary year round?

JL
The delay is "necessary" for the stations to pull in some pre-primetime ad revenue from game shows, reruns, or in the case of our NBC station, news during the 7:00 PM hour. They wouldn't get if they didn't delay shows for half the year. IIRC, WNDU delays Conan to air reruns of Friends. That's why Late Night's the only NBC HD show that doesn't get passed through on 16-1.

Should I keep trying or are the Ft. Wayne stations just at low power?
21's the only real full power DT in Fort Wayne (above 300 KW). WFWA PBS 39 is at a fully licensed 90 kW. WISE NBC 33 is slightly under 10,000 watts. WANE CBS 15 is 40,000 watts. WFFT FOX 55 is 970 watts, so you can forget about that one. Since you have all the networks already, I wouldn't say it's necessary to pull in Fort Wayne, but it's probably worth some more tries.

The delay is "necessary" for the stations to pull in some pre-primetime ad revenue from game shows, reruns, or in the case of our NBC station, news during the 7:00 PM hour. They wouldn't get if they didn't delay shows for half the year. IIRC, WNDU delays Conan to air reruns of Friends. That's why Late Night's the only NBC HD show that doesn't get passed through on 16-1.Yes, Conan is delayed - and in upconverted SD - on WNDU and Friends and Spin City fill in the gap. Personally I'd choose Friends reruns over Conan any day of the year ... not just summer. (IIRC there is a year round delay of Conan on WNDU.)
If the state (heaven forbid!) goes to Central Time next year, will that one hour delay be necessary year round?
I'll answer my own question ... I expect that we are in the last few months of delayed TV in Indiana. If the state goes Eastern (please) the schedules will shift with the network feeds. If the state goes Central (ack!) then I expect the delaying markets will end the practice. (Except for Conan ... :D )

BTW: The anoying thing about delay markets is that the rest of the viewable world DOESN'T delay programming. Jon Stewart is still on at 11ET/10CT ... nobody is delaying cable and satellite for me. (Although I do my fair share of self-delayed programming.) Just part of the consistancy that will come to Indiana next year.

JL

21's the only real full power DT in Fort Wayne (above 300 KW). WFWA PBS 39 is at a fully licensed 90 kW. WISE NBC 33 is slightly under 10,000 watts. WANE CBS 15 is 40,000 watts. WFFT FOX 55 is 970 watts, so you can forget about that one. Since you have all the networks already, I wouldn't say it's necessary to pull in Fort Wayne, but it's probably worth some more tries.


Thank you for the reply, that is helpful. You are correct; getting Fort Wayne is not a necessity, but it would be nice to be able to see the Colts even if they are blocked in Indy and I could see the Indy 500 live. Ft. Wayne and Indy also show different reginal games at times. I did get 21.1 at 74 last night so maybe a little
more work could do it.

Thanks

You are correct; getting Fort Wayne is not a necessity, but it would be nice to be able to see the Colts even if they are blocked in Indy and I could see the Indy 500 live. Ft. Wayne and Indy also show different reginal games at times. Thanks
Good point; I forgot about the 500 blackout. I figured you might not need the FW channels because the news isn't worth watching -- nothing happens here!

On another note, Toy Story is on ABC right now and WPTA is not airing it in HD. That would have looked nice in 720p. Most likely the reason: 21's obtrusive weather graphics. Meanwhile the other two stations are passing through HD and are using a simple Thunderstorm/T-Storm Watch title on the upconvert. When this whole DTV transition ends, it would be logical for stations with weather subchannels to get rid of all programming interruption and, during commercials, direct viewers to those subchannels for weather bulletins where they belong. That won't happen though; forecasters need camera time on the main channel.

By the way, does anybody know what happened with Empire on Tuesday night? I scrapped recording it since ATI's crap HDTV software screwed up, then when I tuned in towards the end of the second hour, it was in SD. Did it have to do with the President's speech, possibly messing up the delay? If only GWB could have went overtime and preempted Average Joe on NBC, his approval ratings might have gotten a boost. :D

Lastly, Pat White on WOWO is using the new 33 delay system to pimp HDTVs at, I believe, Classic Stereo. Now if he'd have some relevant topics on his program...

WPTA did not have Toy Story in HD due to having some ABC equipment issues. This was not due to the weather warnings. Hopefully the problem has beeen resolved. Will not know until tonight durring HD programming.

OK, thanks ENGjas. Will the NASCAR race be passed through tomorrow night?

I scrapped recording it since ATI's crap HDTV software screwed up
Nice to know there is another local HDTV watcher that is having issues with the ATI HD Wonder. Great hardware...WHEN the software works. I have missed recording so many LOST episodes because the software randomly decides not to start up and record. But I will prevail and archive the entire season...I will if it kills me!

Lastly, Pat White on WOWO is using the new 33 delay system to pimp HDTVs at, I believe, Classic Stereo. Now if he'd have some relevant topics on his program...
LOL! I thought I was the only one who felt that way about that self-absorbed tedious infomercial host! :p Oh well, I figure that any HD "news" coverage is good for us all, and I am very impressed that WISE has invested in the delay server. Now if Granite would just buy WFFT........ :rolleyes:

Now if Granite would just buy WFFT........ :rolleyes:
Can Granite do two shared-service agreements? I can see it now: the 21Alive News Three-Way on WISE33 and FOX55. :rolleyes: I suppose if it brought any sort of local programming to that station... We might as well just go to state-run broadcasting and end the confusion. :p

I'll answer my previous question about the NASCAR race: yes, the Pepsi 400 is in HD; NBC's PQ isn't as good as FOX though (the splicer advantage?). Still very nice. I was digging the WISE station ID making light of all-year HD.

Nice to know there is another local HDTV watcher that is having issues with the ATI HD Wonder. Great hardware...WHEN the software works. I have missed recording so many LOST episodes because the software randomly decides not to start up and record. But I will prevail and archive the entire season...I will if it kills me!


LOL! I thought I was the only one who felt that way about that self-absorbed tedious infomercial host! :p Oh well, I figure that any HD "news" coverage is good for us all, and I am very impressed that WISE has invested in the delay server. Now if Granite would just buy WFFT........ :rolleyes:


I can tell you the ATI HDTV issues can be solved with an install of Windows Media Center.. I am loving it!

Could someone please tell the HD switch thrower at wise to take his bathroom breaks during the show and not the commercial break? Every other time wise comes back from commercial, it isn't in hd.

hopefully that automated switch will be installed very shortly.

Could someone please tell the HD switch thrower at wise to take his bathroom breaks during the show and not the commercial break? Every other time wise comes back from commercial, it isn't in hd.

hopefully that automated switch will be installed very shortly.


Tell me about it!

During the All-Star game tonight, I was able to pick up the FOX station out of South Bend with my Silver Sensor. Not the digital HD, but just the regular analog feed. The picture was a bit snowy, but acceptably clear. I've always noticed that our FOX station's picture was bad, but I had thought that it was just fox or my tv, etc. The picture from south bend was many times better than the picture from 55. 55's picture looks like the saturation control is jacked way up, while the brightness and contrast are to low. My tv's picture is accurate on all other channels, except for 55. Analog 28 picture seems much more accurate as it looks like what I see when I go to Comerica Park. The whites were white the grass was green and not bleeding into the dirt and the dirt was brown and not suffering from a green cast. With our fox station having such a bad picture, it makes the lack of a pure digital picture even harder to take. Hopefully when (if?) our fox station goes HD, the HD feed will come through untouched by the local stations equipment and not have the color altered.

During the All-Star game tonight, I was able to pick up the FOX station out of South Bend with my Silver Sensor. Not the digital HD, but just the regular analog feed. The picture was a bit snowy, but acceptably clear. I've always noticed that our FOX station's picture was bad, but I had thought that it was just fox or my tv, etc. The picture from south bend was many times better than the picture from 55. 55's picture looks like the saturation control is jacked way up, while the brightness and contrast are to low. My tv's picture is accurate on all other channels, except for 55. Analog 28 picture seems much more accurate as it looks like what I see when I go to Comerica Park. The whites were white the grass was green and not bleeding into the dirt and the dirt was brown and not suffering from a green cast. With our fox station having such a bad picture, it makes the lack of a pure digital picture even harder to take. Hopefully when (if?) our fox station goes HD, the HD feed will come through untouched by the local stations equipment and not have the color altered.
All very true. I wish my capture of the game wouldn't have f'ed up so I could throw up a couple of caps up; I don't know whether it was ATI's crappy software or the fact that WSJV's signal went down with the sun. :confused: I have to change the presets on my rotator box because what works one day doesn't the next (especially on 16, which can be a real biznitch to get sometimes). Take my word for it though: the game, as does most FOX HD material, looked awesome, and that's probably an understatement. I was only able to catch FOX's last NASCAR race this year (Sears Point, Infineon Raceway if you want to be precise) and I didn't think 720p could look that good. Looking at NBC's races, it leaves me wanting more from FOX. The Inside's pretty good too, but it looks like FOX is going to dump that one.

As for the WFFT HD hypothetical (big emphasis on hypothetical), correct me if I'm wrong on any of this:
FOX takes care of the compression and sends 720p 19.2Mbps HD feeds straight to the stations without any need for re-encoding. The station's splicer picks out the appropriate feed and its station logo (which is directly inserted into the HD feed as a bug, so on 28-1, you'd see "FOX 28" in the corner and not "FOX"). The splicer lets stations insert their own content, but when network programming is on, what is sent from FOX HQ is what you see on your TV. This saves money compared to the other nets's distribution methods while maintaining excellent PQ. To screw up the picture, WFFT would have to do a real job on it. Ponder this: would they put in an effort to mess up the picture when they've not put in an effort to improve PQ and DTV?

So the moral of the story is: get WSJV-DT by whatever means you can. There won't be any HD baseball until the playoffs at the earliest (World Series for certain); FOX does 480-line widescreen for the weekend games, but when HD comes back, it'll be well worth watching.

All very true. I wish my capture of the game wouldn't have f'ed up so I could throw up a couple of caps up; I don't know whether it was ATI's crappy software or the fact that WSJV's signal went down with the sun. :confused: I have to change the presets on my rotator box because what works one day doesn't the next (especially on 16, which can be a real biznitch to get sometimes). Take my word for it though: the game, as does most FOX HD material, looked awesome, and that's probably an understatement. I was only able to catch FOX's last NASCAR race this year (Sears Point, Infineon Raceway if you want to be precise) and I didn't think 720p could look that good. Looking at NBC's races, it leaves me wanting more from FOX. The Inside's pretty good too, but it looks like FOX is going to dump that one.

As for the WFFT HD hypothetical (big emphasis on hypothetical), correct me if I'm wrong on any of this:
FOX takes care of the compression and sends 720p 19.2Mbps HD feeds straight to the stations without any need for re-encoding. The station's splicer picks out the appropriate feed and its station logo (which is directly inserted into the HD feed as a bug, so on 28-1, you'd see "FOX 28" in the corner and not "FOX"). The splicer lets stations insert their own content, but when network programming is on, what is sent from FOX HQ is what you see on your TV. This saves money compared to the other nets's distribution methods while maintaining excellent PQ. To screw up the picture, WFFT would have to do a real job on it. Ponder this: would they put in an effort to mess up the picture when they've not put in an effort to improve PQ and DTV?

So the moral of the story is: get WSJV-DT by whatever means you can. There won't be any HD baseball until the playoffs at the earliest (World Series for certain); FOX does 480-line widescreen for the weekend games, but when HD comes back, it'll be well worth watching.


It would definitely be nice to see some Fox material in HD. I'm not a huge NASCAR fan (I'm more of an open-wheel guy), but it would still be nice to catch a few races in HD.

I'll definitely need to work on the rents to get them to allow me to put up an outdoor antenna so I can get the SB Fox HD feed.

On another note, it looks like the later transmission of Leno tonight is in HD. Kudos to NBC for sending that through in HD and kudos to wise for throwing the switch.

EDIT:
I saw this article on the front page of AVS and after reading through, I will definitely not watch WFFT unless I am unable to get the SB station.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=558227

This article just shows how greedy the people at Nexstar really are. I would think that the major networks would step in because it is their intellectual property that is ultimately at stake and their viewers and hence ad money. I get the feeling that this battle will eventually hit here and we may loose wfft from our cable.

:) WPTA-HD is now on Comcast as of 7-29-05.

About Freakin' TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!

:) WPTA-HD is now on Comcast as of 7-29-05.

Do you know when to expect WISE on Mediacom in Auburn? I talked to a csr a few months ago and she said that they were in talks to get wise hd on mediacom, but it hasn't shown up yet.

Edit: Or when the PSIP of wise will be back up?

Thanks,
Ryan

:) WPTA-HD is now on Comcast as of 7-29-05.

Can you tell me what station number? I looked all over for it and couldn't find it.
Thanks.

There is a problem with the unit that inserts the PSIP. Troubleshooting with the manufacturer.

I have no idea when WISE will be on Mediacom. I would like to see it there also!

I do not know the channel number on Comcast, Just was told that it is there.

Finally found WPTA-HD on Comcast. It is channel 231.

Looks like the days of rehashed radar on 33-2 are over; NBC's weather channel is now on the multicast. I wonder if the 21 forecasters will make mention of this.

EDIT: Nope, not so far. Once Weather Plus gets on cable, they'll start squawking.

Anyone notice how bad the picture quality is on WISE for upconverts, mine has really bad horizontal lines and tonight the sound is bad as well. The HD is good though.

I need some help. The first of the year, I won 52 inch RCA HDTV. After sitting around for six months I decided to take the plunge into to the Hi-Def (a good deal on ebay helped). I played around with it and could not get WFFT (big surprise). I did my homework and looked on antenna web and it told me I needed a small directional - lt. green - to receive it (I just checked again and now it says a medium directional -red- but I have my original printout and it looks like they changed several stations). After reading several reviews I bought a CM4228 hoping that would solve the problem. I installed today with a phillips preamp and no luck. I live just outside Monroe (27.7 miles from their tower) Here are my questions:
1. Currently my antenna is about 20 ft. off the ground. Is worth the effort to install a new tower? I can get one that's 25 ft. but if I don't want to put it up if it's not going to help. This is really the last option and I know the higher up I go, the more I avoid the curve of the Earth.
2. Is running my line through a grounding block going to help? The reason I ask is this. I am using RG-6 cable. A few years ago, I put the pre amp on and the local radio station (tower about 2 miles from here and 90 degrees from the direction the antenna was pointing) bled through on WFFT. I thought that maybe if things were grounding correctly that would avoid the bleed through. In addition, I guess maybe I don't have to worry about that because the radio station broadcasts in analog and that shouldn't interfere with digital, right?
3. If I upgrade to a different preamp (CM7777) is that really going to make any difference?

Sorry this was so long; I hope it all made sense. Any suggestions, thoughts, or ideas are greatly appreciated.

If I were you, I wouldn't try to get it. Until they bump up their power, it really isn't worth it. WFFT isn't hd now (or possibly never) and they aren't even passing along the widescreen feeds of their programs. Right now, they are broadcasting at 0.97kW. That is really low power.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=25040

If you look at the polar plot of thier broadcasting, you look to be like your at 0.7 (which, correct me if i'm wrong) you'll get like 0.7x0.97kW directed your way.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=46339&rotate=0.00&p0=0.571&p10=0.586&p20=0.607&p30=0.627&p40=0.640&p50=0.645&p60=0.641&p70=0.631&p80=0.613&p90=0.592&p100=0.579&p110=0.570&p120=0.579&p130=0.610&p140=0.650&p150=0.699&p160=0.759&p170=0.817&p180=0.869&p190=0.914&p200=0.951&p210=0.975&p220=0.993&p230=1.000&p240=0.996&p250=0.981&p260=0.955&p270=0.920&p280=0.876&p290=0.826&p300=0.771&p310=0.714&p320=0.661&p330=0.615&p340=0.583&p350=0.569&p360=0.571&

You could try those other things you mentioned, but I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.

Ryan

ENGjas - sometimes on 21-1 (mainly during live events), around the top of the hour, station ID is displayed on top of the HD feed. Are there any plans for WISE to do this? I ask this because during NBC NASCAR races, whenever station ID is shown on analog 33, the HD channel gets switched to the upconvert. (It's no problem compared to how WPTA's audience didn't get to see the Arlington Million horse race yesterday because of TV weather idiocy. These weather subchannels better start coming in handy.)

Thanks for your help. I was afraid there wouldn't be a solution as their analog signal has always been weak out here too. I was still hopeful I could make it work with football season upcoming. Thanks

Hopefully, before the end of the year, there will be something in place to allow for ID's on the WISE HD signal.

What's up with Wise not having HD lately? or at least during late nite? Conan really sucks when its not in hd because i have to watch the analog feed so my tv can zoom the picture.

There was a problem with the HD switch, this has been fixed. Should be back to having HD!

Just a few minutes ago on 21 News, Curtis Smith ended his forecast by pimping live radar on 21.2 and Weather Plus on 33.2, with a nice graphic showing the two channels to boot, surprising me once again. Somebody from Granite/WPTA/WISE must read this thread, because when I think something isn't going to happen, it does and I have to consume a steady diet of crow. Better watch my mouth. So, who thinks they'll do the news in HD? :p

WPTA will not have any HD content until Saturday evening. This is due to upgrades going on at ABC. They will not be feeding any HD throughout this time.

I've been away from the board for a while, but since WFFT is still broadcast in craptacular EDTV, I decided to do some more digging about their parent company Nexstar.

Here's their financial report.

http://www.nexstar.tv/financial_reports/PDFs/2005-Q2.pdf

Some interesting notes:

Income for the 2nd Quarter - $57 million
Current Debt Load - $644 million

And oh yeah, they had a revenue drop and their free cash flow dropped as well.... What does that mean? Most likely that Nexstar will either be bought out by someone with tons o'cash (not likely) or the company is going down the tubes (most likely). The only reason I decided to look at their financials was because I was thinking of buying one share so I could go into their annual shareholder meeting and raise hell about the lack of HD. Now, I don't think that will be necessary since it's most likely the company won't be here by the next meeting.

Hi,

I live north of Marion and I am receiving the Ft. Wayne stations. I have good digital reception (Channel Master 4228 antenna with a CM7775 pre-amp at 15' high) on WISE-DT, WPTA-DT, WFWA-DT and several analog stations. No success with WANE-TV. I understand it's only operating at 40KW ERP. Is that so and if so, are there plans to raise the power at some future date? I can receive WANE-TV analog at channel 15 very well but it's not digital, of course. Any information would be appreciated.

P.S. Is there any hope for WFFT-DT at channel 36? I see they can operate at 1000KW but are only at 970watts at this time. Is that correct?

Thank you,

The plan is not to stay at this level of power or height on the tower forever. Our corporate legal folks are working with the FCC to increase our signal. There is miles of red tape to cut through.

The plan is not to stay at this level of power or height on the tower forever. Our corporate legal folks are working with the FCC to increase our signal. There is miles of red tape to cut through.

Thank you, Mark. I did receive WANE-DT last evening for a few hours. Just long enough to watch the Colts-Bronco NFL Game. It had really great PQ. I'm hoping that when the leaves fall this fall, the signal will be there all the time.

I told my wife this (analog vs HDTV change-over) reminds me of the difference we had when television went from B&W to color in 1953. Not quite as much difference, but almost.

Larry

P.S. Is there any hope for WFFT-DT at channel 36? I see they can operate at 1000KW but are only at 970watts at this time. Is that correct?
Absolutely correct. Even though WFFT was the second commercial station in Fort Wayne to start a DTV signal, they're not going full power until the FCC makes them. Even then, their ownership is in such bad shape that they'll go under before spending millions of dollars on their stations' DTV signals. Can you get WXIN out of Indy? (I ask that because even if you could get WFFT, they do not do HDTV, and it's not like they act in the public interest anyway.)

Absolutely correct. Even though WFFT was the second commercial station in Fort Wayne to start a DTV signal, they're not going full power until the FCC makes them. Even then, their ownership is in such bad shape that they'll go under before spending millions of dollars on their stations' DTV signals. Can you get WXIN out of Indy? (I ask that because even if you could get WFFT, they do not do HDTV, and it's not like they act in the public interest anyway.)

I'm right in the middle between Ft. Wayne and Indianapolis. I can receive some stations from Ft.Wayne and some from Indianapolis (NBC, ABC, PBS, and UPS). I was hoping for CBS-HD and Fox-HD for the upcoming fall season. Those two are the ones I can't receive, reliably, OTA. :( WXIN 45.3 and WISH 9.3 come in, sometimes, in the evening. Maybe it will get better in the fall.

Thanks,

I'm right in the middle between Ft. Wayne and Indianapolis. I can receive some stations from Ft.Wayne and some from Indianapolis (NBC, ABC, PBS, and UPS). I was hoping for CBS-HD and Fox-HD for the upcoming fall season. Those two are the ones I can't receive, reliably, OTA. :( WXIN 45.3 and WISH 9.3 come in, sometimes, in the evening. Maybe it will get better in the fall.

Thanks,
That's surprising; I've received Fox 59 a few times at night, and I'm 30 miles north of Fort Wayne. I figured it would be an excellent signal in Marion seeing how WXIN is full power.

That's surprising; I've received Fox 59 a few times at night, and I'm 30 miles north of Fort Wayne. I figured it would be an excellent signal in Marion seeing how WXIN is full power.

I've re-aimed the antenna and can receive WXIN in the evening. The problem I have is I live in a river valley and the trees block almost everything. I'm sure all will be better when the leafs fall.

Thanks,

Looks like Letterman isn't in HD tonight. On that same note, Leno wasn't in HD at the begining, but switched to HD later in the program. I've noticed that on Letterman in HD, there are audio clicks and pops, which I've noticed on all CBS HD material lately. My guess is that it is due to the delay server. Maybe Mark could chime in on that. Anyways, Dave's show looked good in HD the last two nights.

Looks like Letterman isn't in HD tonight. On that same note, Leno wasn't in HD at the begining, but switched to HD later in the program. I've noticed that on Letterman in HD, there are audio clicks and pops, which I've noticed on all CBS HD material lately. My guess is that it is due to the delay server. Maybe Mark could chime in on that. Anyways, Dave's show looked good in HD the last two nights.
Not on WSBT, it wasn't. They do the same subchannel setup as WANE: HD, UPN, Weather. The difference is that HD on WSBT is lacking, but UPN and the weather channel look respectable. On the first night of Dave HD (a "waste of technology"), whenever there was a hard scene cut, the picture went out of focus and took several seconds to return to normal. This wasn't a network/studio problem; the show looked much better on WANE an hour later.

EDIT: Nevermind, I take most of that back. While WSBT's HD did suck on the first night, the focus problem looks to have vanished. It could use a few more bits though. END EDIT.

Yet another question, ENGjas: Do you know what's the "construction" going on at WPTA studios?

WFWA just added a new subchannel on 39-3. It appears to be some sort of a national PBS feed completely different from the simulcast on 39-2. The original subchannels look to have taken a minor hit in PQ, but they're still watchable.

First day with an HDTV receiver. 6 miles from FW towers. indoor antenna. Stong signals from PBS, NBC and ABC. But nothing tonight from WANE CBS. antenna positioning should be fine since there is only one degree of difference between NBC and CBS. Is there really that much of a power difference?

Thanks.

Don

What is the deal?
2 Weeks is a row, no HD Football on WPTA!!!
Ohio State vs Texas is the Game of the pre-season, and just a lousy SD game.

What is the deal?
2 Weeks is a row, no HD Football on WPTA!!!
Ohio State vs Texas is the Game of the pre-season, and just a lousy SD game.
That's ABC's bad.
AVS Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=577435)

All regional games on ABC are in SD this year. They don't have enough satellite capacity to have 4 to 6 regional games in HD. Even if its a national game the stadium needs to be fibered up for HD. That is why Notre Dame games on NBC are not in HD.

All regional games on ABC are in SD this year. They don't have enough satellite capacity to have 4 to 6 regional games in HD. Even if its a national game the stadium needs to be fibered up for HD. That is why Notre Dame games on NBC are not in HD.


Did you mean to say Notre Dame games on ABC are not in HD? The latest reports indicate that all Notre Dame home games on NBC WILL BE in HD starting this year.

Steve

I can confirm that NBC will originate 2005 home ND games in HD.

HD will be backhauled to NBC NY via Ku space segment

with SD backup backhauled via terrestrial fiber.

All regional games on ABC are in SD this year. They don't have enough satellite capacity to have 4 to 6 regional games in HD. Even if its a national game the stadium needs to be fibered up for HD. That is why Notre Dame games on NBC are not in HD.

There's tons o'fiber in South Bend, hell in any Division I college there should be OC-X fiber to the Internet. How difficult would it be to have an 27Meg Streaming Feed to one main center. There are existing providers that do this already....

Donkin: I'm 4 miles from the towers and WANE has always been my strongest signal.

JagerM: Miami-FSU was in HD on Monday night so I don't think it's an issue of WPTA not passing it on. I don't know why they wouldn't have the HD crew in Columbus for a game of that magnitude!

I'm currently using a small indoor directional antenna for the HD setup on my computer, but now that I have an HDTV on the way for the living room I'd like something a little less hands off. I don't have the time or the tools to do an install of an outdoor antenna so I'm looking for someone to do that job for me. Any recommendations for antenna installers in the Fort Wayne area?

Hello George,
You are closer to the situation than I am, however, I have not heard from Tom Duff that next weeks' N.D. home game will be in HD. Maybe the announcement will come this week.
When I talk about fiber I mean fiber within the stadium for cameras to connect to.

HDEye:

Thanks. I put longer coax on my Sliver Sensor and tried different positions around the room. I found I could 'dial in' WANE by holding the antenna on my lap. So much for an elegant solution :-)

Has anyone in the Aboite area been able to receive FOX 28.1 out of South Bend? If so what was your setup. I have not been able to receive it at all. My friend lives in northern Allen county, and gets it with no problem.

I'm wondering the same thing. I live off St. Rd. 14 and am going to be setting up an outdoor antenna in the near future. Being able to receive FOX out of SB is a must.

I just came upon a page at WFWA's website (http://wfwa.org/whatsnew/39-3onSeptember6.html) pointing out their carriage of the Roberts hearings on 39-3. What it ended with didn't sound good:

This programming is the first phase and a test of the PBS39’s anticipated four-channel standard definition digital service tentatively slated to begin Saturday, October 1, 2005. Currently, PBS39 airs programming on two separate digital channels: digital channel 39-1 (a channel of high-definition, 16 X 9 aspect ratio wide screen format programming sent directly from PBS) and 39-2, a direct re-broadcast of its regular broadcasting on analog Channel 39.
I'm guessing the PBS HD Channel's getting cut for this. WBGU Bowling Green (which actually was 39 back in the day IIRC) runs a 4-SD setup and shuts some of the subchannels off to simulcast shows produced in HD. Is that what will happen here, or is HD gone completely?

That's not good. It is nice having a constant HD channel to have the tv run on when there is nothing else good on tv (most of the time). We might have to start a campaign to change their minds if this is in fact where they are headed. On this note, is PBS 39-1 blank for you guys to? Its blank OTA and off my cable feed.

Here is the email i sent to the technical guy at PBS:

Hi,

I’d like to have your reassurances that WFWA will continue to broadcast the PBS HD channel. I’ve recently become concerned about the future of this awesome service because of a posting to your site. According to this link (http://wfwa.org/whatsnew/39-3onSeptember6.html) WFWA will begin to broadcast four standard def channels ala WBGU. I believe that following this plan will do a great disservice to the Fort Wayne area. The PBS HD channel is one of the best forms of entertainment that is still free today. Please do not take this away from your viewers.



Sincerely,

Ryan Dunn

Senior in Computer Science - IPFW

We'll see what he says.

On this note, is PBS 39-1 blank for you guys to? Its blank OTA and off my cable feed.
Darkness, everybody! Darkness is spreading! It was still working 3 or 4 hours ago, maybe just a glitch? It's certainly not a national issue - WNIT South Bend still has it on 34-1. Chalk another one up for the 574.

THE NEXT DAY: PBS HD is back on again.

Well, it looks like for the time being, PBS HD is off the air.

Dear Mr. Dunn,
Matt Kyle forwarded your email to me as I oversee programming here at PBS39.
I regret to inform you that indeed the PBS HD channel will be removed from digital 39-1 starting October 1, 2005. This channel was never meant to be a permanent offering from PBS but a means for local PBS stations to showcase High Definition programming during the mandated digital conversion. The hours of available programming on that channel have decreased from well over 400 hours to well under 200 hours. That means you're seeing the same 200 hours (about one weeks worth) over and over and have been for more than a year.

The problem is the cost to secure rights to the programming. In an attempt to update the rights to the current shows and potentially add new programming and interstitial material to the channel, PBS determined the only way possible to accomplish that was to charge PBS stations an additional fee to carry the channel starting October 1. Unfortunately the cost is prohibitive for WFWA. There is also no guarantee the number of stations who subscribe will be enough to be able to cover the cost to upgrade the programming. After 10/1/05 PBS39 will move to 4 Standard Definition channels. However, when a program is sent down in HD by PBS and we are carrying it live off the satellite feed, we will broadcast 1 HD and 2 SD channels simultaneously.

However, much like this new technology, our plans are evolving. If PBS can provide a robust HD channel with a wider variety of programming that is updated more often we will certainly revisit our decision. The current plan was considered long and hard but it became quite evident that it was the only choice given the cost and lack of guarantees for new material. We would like nothing more than to continue HD programing on 39-1 so the people in our viewer area can truly appreciate the outstanding quality of that technology 24/7 and I assure you we will continue to look for more HD opportunities.

Thank you so much for your question and comments.

Claudia Johnson
WFWA PBS39

That's a perfectly understandable explanation; PBS HD has way too much repetition. Could they at least show some Soundstage reruns from previous seasons?

Strange that the Colts game was not in HD today on 15-1. Does anyone know why?
Is it a:

CBS issue
WANE issue
Time zone issue
Daylight savings issue
All of above?

It sure is irritating to seemingly have no rhyme or reason to the pattern of local HD programming.

Strange that the Colts game was not in HD today on 15-1. Does anyone know why?
Is it a:

CBS issue
WANE issue
Time zone issue
Daylight savings issue
All of above?

It sure is irritating to seemingly have no rhyme or reason to the pattern of local HD programming.

CBS does not have the capability to broadcast all games in HD like Fox. Yesterday's Colts game was never scheduled to be in HD. Check the HD programming posts at AVS Forum for this info.

Just picked up a HDTV receiver over the weekend... wow HDTV is really amazing!

From my home on the NE side of Fort Wayne (near Wallen and Auburn) I can pick up everyone except fox with just a simple "rabit ears" antenna I've had for years.

Two questions:
1) I noticed MNF was broadcast in DD5.1 (according to ABC) but I only received 2.0 from WPTA... do the local guys broadcast in 5.1?

2) What are my chances of pulling in a FOX broadcast from Southbend? I've looked at AntennaWeb but I'm interested in any specific antenna experiences.

Thanks!

Just picked up a HDTV receiver over the weekend... wow HDTV is really amazing!

From my home on the NE side of Fort Wayne (near Wallen and Auburn) I can pick up everyone except fox with just a simple "rabit ears" antenna I've had for years.

Two questions:
1) I noticed MNF was broadcast in DD5.1 (according to ABC) but I only received 2.0 from WPTA... do the local guys broadcast in 5.1?

2) What are my chances of pulling in a FOX broadcast from Southbend? I've looked at AntennaWeb but I'm interested in any specific antenna experiences.

Thanks!

WANE broadcasts in 5.1 when it is provided by the network.

In response to the question of the Colts game not being in HD, Goldrich hit it on the head. It was never scheduled to be in HD. The next Colt game scheduled to be in HD is October 2nd against the Titans.

We got about 20 phone calls about the game not being in HD last week. Sometimes human error creeps in, but that wasn't the case.

WANE broadcasts in 5.1 when it is provided by the network.



OK, tonight, NCIS premiere on WANE... I saw the 5.1 logo when the show started, but no 5.1 feed. I assumed this would be a case where 5.1 would happen... is it my setup or the network or the local broadcast?

Thanks for your help and information!

Just picked up a HDTV receiver over the weekend... wow HDTV is really amazing!

From my home on the NE side of Fort Wayne (near Wallen and Auburn) I can pick up everyone except fox with just a simple "rabit ears" antenna I've had for years.

Two questions:
1) I noticed MNF was broadcast in DD5.1 (according to ABC) but I only received 2.0 from WPTA... do the local guys broadcast in 5.1?

2) What are my chances of pulling in a FOX broadcast from Southbend? I've looked at AntennaWeb but I'm interested in any specific antenna experiences.

Thanks!
1. Like jckrac said, WANE does 5.1 when available. Everybody else is 2.0 (either WPTA or WISE, not both, is supposed to get 5.1 in the future).

2. Tough question. FOX 28's reportedly been received in Allen County, which is well out of the coverage area (for that matter, so are Huntington and Waterloo). All I can say is go for the highest elevation and the highest gain antenna you can get (I use an Antennas Direct XG91 which is 15dB IIRC). Note that WSJV's digital signal is still on low power. It's worth a shot, since WFFT 55 will go neither full power nor HDTV until they get some ownership that will invest into the station's DTV operations like Granite has with WISE 33.

Speaking of WISE, they and WPTA are really pushing these weather subchannels in promo ads. If any of the Granite people are reading, and I'm sure they are, push the whole digital channel; most people don't have any idea what "point-2 digital" is, they'll think it's on cable.

1. Like jckrac said, WANE does 5.1 when available. Everybody else is 2.0 (either WPTA or WISE, not both, is supposed to get 5.1 in the future).

Good to know that 5.1 is a possibility, but how do I know if it's "available"? Like I said above, NCIS had a 5.1 logo at the start, but my tuner indicated 2.0 only.


2. Tough question. FOX 28's reportedly been received in Allen County, which is well out of the coverage area (for that matter, so are Huntington and Waterloo). All I can say is go for the highest elevation and the highest gain antenna you can get (I use an Antennas Direct XG91 which is 15dB IIRC). Note that WSJV's digital signal is still on low power. It's worth a shot, since WFFT 55 will go neither full power nor HDTV until they get some ownership that will invest into the station's DTV operations like Granite has with WISE 33.


Good to know. The 91XG looks great, but I wonder if it's worth it to spend $80 for a *chance* at picking up one new station.

Just as a heads up...I just bought a notebook with an athlon 64 3400+ processor, so for shits and giggles, I installed the drivers and downloaded the software to capture video from off my Comcast Motorolla 6412 Dual tuner DVR. Turns out that Comcast has not turned on any 5C encryption yet so I can archive everything, including HD from HBO/SHO/Starz or whatever, without any problem. Firmware is 9.19. I doubt this will last forever but this is the way things should be, considering how much I do pay for Cable.

I take back the bit I said a few posts back about people confusing the weather subchannels for cable; I only just noticed that one of the ads mentions that they're free and over the air. On another note, 21-2 has been airing ABC News Now since right before Hurricane Rita and hasn't switched back yet.

WANE broadcasts in 5.1 when it is provided by the network.

In response to the question of the Colts game not being in HD, Goldrich hit it on the head. It was never scheduled to be in HD. The next Colt game scheduled to be in HD is October 2nd against the Titans.

We got about 20 phone calls about the game not being in HD last week. Sometimes human error creeps in, but that wasn't the case.


When you say that the Colts games were "not scheduled in HD", does that mean:
1) that it is not even taped in HD for broadcast anywhere,
2) or that CBS did not provide a HD feed for out time zone or area,
3) or that WANE chose to show it in SD instead of HD?

I am just trying to figure out the pattern because the guide or TitanTV is not always reliable about HD in our area. It sure would be nice if you could explain WHY so that I know what to expect in the future also. Thanks! Sorry I don't get it yet! :rolleyes:

Also I have been working on getting WSJV out of South Bend as well. I live near Churubusco just inside Allen County. I bought a CM4228, installed it on my 2 story roof with a 10 ft mast but have not been able to dial it in yet. I am going to try a Pre-amp next and will keep ya posted on the results. I am approximately 45 miles from the transmitter so I may be pushing it, but it will be worth it to me to dump the lame WFFT FOX "signal"
I emailed them recently and this was their reply:

No, we're still looking at the end of 2006 or the beginning of 2007. Thanks for the e-mail.
******************************
Travis Henkaline
Creative Services Director
FOX 55 - WFFT
******************************

-----Original Message-----
From: laggytoad
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 8:30 PM
To: thenkaline@wfft.com
Subject: Re: Another HD question

Hello again it's been over 8 months and I figured I should check back to see if anything has changed, so....
Any plans for WFFT to begin HD broadcast this season, or at least to increase the digital signal power?

Thanks!

I emailed them recently and this was their reply:

No, we're still looking at the end of 2006 or the beginning of 2007. Thanks for the e-mail.
******************************
Travis Henkaline
Creative Services Director
FOX 55 - WFFT
******************************
If Mr. Henkaline is talking about a power increase, that timetable is well past the FCC deadline for markets #101+ to carry out construction of full-power facilities (July 1, 2006). That means WFFT might lose their right to protection from interference. With a 1000kW signal planned according to the FCC, I don't know if that would make any difference, but it sounds rather serious.

[QUOTE=laggytoad]When you say that the Colts games were "not scheduled in HD", does that mean:
1) that it is not even taped in HD for broadcast anywhere,
2) or that CBS did not provide a HD feed for out time zone or area,
3) or that WANE chose to show it in SD instead of HD?

I am just trying to figure out the pattern because the guide or TitanTV is not always reliable about HD in our area. It sure would be nice if you could explain WHY so that I know what to expect in the future also. Thanks! Sorry I don't get it yet! :rolleyes:

QUOTE]

When the Colts are not scheduled in HD, it means CBS has limited resources as far as number of trucks, network capabilities, etc. to broadcast the game in HD.

I assure you that if the game was available in HD, we would have broadcast it in HD.

I can't speak for Titan TV, but when I want to know what CBS is in fact planning on broadcasting in HD, I go to cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports and following the whats on CBS sports link this weekend. You'll see that there are 4 games (1 being the Colts finally) are scheduled to be in HD next week.

So, nobody saw the game in HD because CBS never planned to air it and thus the resources (i.e. a digital production truck) were never on site. WANE (or any other affiliate) has any say on which games are in HD.

But they are scheduled to be on against the Titans next week.

Good to know that 5.1 is a possibility, but how do I know if it's "available"? Like I said above, NCIS had a 5.1 logo at the start, but my tuner indicated 2.0 only.


Just to answer my own post. I got an email from the fine folks at WANE and it was explained that they don't have the equipment to pass on 5.1 primetime that is delayed. Once DST is over (end of October) all the CBS 5.1 content will be passed on.

I received the 5.1 football broadcast this weekend, it looked and sounded great.

I live in Leesburg, IN and I'm completely lost....what all do i need to get an HD signal...i want to spend as little as possible and would prefer not to go through putting up a big antenna...

Heres my tv (dont know if i need a tuner, i cant tell)
I cant link but its the $1088 RCA HDTV from Walmart

and heres my antennaweb info....

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* lt green - uhf WSBT-DT 22.1 CBS SOUTH BEND IN 317 30.4 30
* lt green - uhf WNDU-DT 16.1 NBC SOUTH BEND IN 316°29.7 42
* red - uhf WNIT-DT 34.1 PBS SOUTH BEND IN 318° 29.7 35
* blue - uhf WFFT-DT 55.1 FOX FORT WAYNE IN 119° 33.8 36
* blue - uhf WANE-DT 15.1 CBS FORT WAYNE IN 120° 31
* violet - uhf WPTA-DT 21.1 ABC FORT WAYNE IN 120° 34.5 24
* violet - uhf WSJV-DT 28.1 FOX ELKHART IN 318° 29.5 58

It's now October and PBS HD on WFWA is gone. WFWA-DT is now:
39.1 - WFWA-TV (14:9 upconvert in 720p, what the hell??? This better be temporary.)
39.2 - National PBS feed
39.3 - Most likely another national feed, it's in color bars right now (says "Schedule 501, PBS MCR 1")

Yep noticed that too. Just finished installing new antenna yesterday and get WPTA pegged out full strength, WANE just about full strength, WISE I cannot lock onto very well get lots of signal drops, and WFFT is just plain non exisitent.

Can't figure out why WISE won't lock on so well, was able to get it just fine at the old house. I'm thinking maybe it has something to do with the elevation of the broadcast antenna in relationship to the elevation of my new home. If memory serves me correct WANE is at a similiar power but their antenna is at a higher elevation.

I'm using a winegard pr8800 prostar 1000 with channel master mast mounted pre-amp, antenna is on roof.

WISE has been dropping for me all weekend. It started Friday morning. The signal comes in for a few seconds then goes out back, back and forth like that every few seconds. I used to able to receive it just fine. I live in the Monroe area (5 miles south of Decatur). I wonder if anyone else is having a problem?

I live in Leesburg, IN and I'm completely lost....what all do i need to get an HD signal...i want to spend as little as possible and would prefer not to go through putting up a big antenna...

Heres my tv (dont know if i need a tuner, i cant tell)
I cant link but its the $1088 RCA HDTV from Walmart

and heres my antennaweb info....

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* lt green - uhf WSBT-DT 22.1 CBS SOUTH BEND IN 317 30.4 30
* lt green - uhf WNDU-DT 16.1 NBC SOUTH BEND IN 316°29.7 42
* red - uhf WNIT-DT 34.1 PBS SOUTH BEND IN 318° 29.7 35
* blue - uhf WFFT-DT 55.1 FOX FORT WAYNE IN 119° 33.8 36
* blue - uhf WANE-DT 15.1 CBS FORT WAYNE IN 120° 31
* violet - uhf WPTA-DT 21.1 ABC FORT WAYNE IN 120° 34.5 24
* violet - uhf WSJV-DT 28.1 FOX ELKHART IN 318° 29.5 58
You will need to buy a tuner. Look on ebay and you can find one for around $100. Also don't expect to get WFFT their HD signal is too weak.

As a TV DXer for over 30 years, here are a couple of thoughts for you. Your lack of signal from WISE-DT could very well be a terrain issue. USUALLY the higher the antenna is mounted the stronger the signal will be, due to fewer obstructions between the broadcast tower and your antenna, which means better line-of-sight reception. But sometimes the sweet spot for reception might be at a lower height, usually due to terrain issues, tropospheric conditions and/or multipath issues. Many times the signal may bounce or be reflected off of other objects, which many times is the case and the reason for multipath.

According to FCC files, WISE-DT 19 is currently operating with 9.9kW @ 771' (HAAT...height above average terrain). It does have a CP (construction permit) from the FCC to increase the power to 350kW, which will most likely happen by July 2006. With this lower power in mind, not all that far away (approx. 90 miles) is WTVG-DT 19, Toledo, OH cranking out 795kW @ 728' HAAT. Maybe you aren't seeing this Toledo station with your receiver but I would highly suspect that your receiver is seeing some of the signal from the Toledo station, which from time to time could be just enough signal to "fool" your receiver, or enough to mix with the WISE-DT 19 signal, making it difficult for your receiver to decode the right station. I live around 94 miles from most of the Ft. Wayne towers and 188 miles from the Toledo towers. I rarely receive WISE-DT but quite often during times of tropospheric enhancement, usually nighttime hours and early morning hours, I do receive WTVG-DT and many times it is with a very strong signal.

Several times I've been able to cancel or null local/semi local signals in order to receive a distant signal. For example, a couple of times during very intense tropospheric conditions, I've been able to position my outdoor antenna in order to block out local WFYI-DT 21, just 5 miles away, and was able to receive WBNS-DT 21, Columbus, OH @ 165 miles. On the other hand, using ch. 21 as an example, on a couple of occasions I've been able to see WPTA-21 (analog) through the strong digital signal from local WFYI-DT 21.

BTW, until some potential interference issues are resolved with the FCC, WANE-DT 31 is operating with 40kW @ 288'. The station has an application with the FCC to go to 1000kW @ 794' whenever these issues are resolved. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=39270 Earlier this year I had an opportunity to see WANE-DT's transmitter, which is ready to go full-power. At 40,000 watts, the thing is barely running..... :-)

My 2 cents.

Steve

As a side note vereekej and cav135, you might check this VHF propagation map when your reception of WISE-DT dips to check and see if it corresponds to the reception enhancement in your area. http://www.mountainlake.k12.mn.us/ham/aprs/path.cgi?map=na This map is constantly updated and represents real-time reception reports from VHF operators around the country. The more orange or red (more intense) the color is, the more intense the signals. The dark red in the Fort Wayne area, especially earlier this morning, MIGHT indicate some strong signal interference from other stations (analog and/or digital) on the same channels. Although this map represents VHF frequencies, it is usually a good indicator of UHF signals, too.

Steve

USUALLY the higher the antenna is mounted the stronger the signal will be, due to fewer obstructions between the broadcast tower and your antenna

Unfortunately it was a battle to get the antenna on the roof and out of the attic. Was able to mount antenna on a gable on the back of the house facing the ft. wayne towers. There is a tree line at the back of my lot that is in the path of this, would have to raise antenna approx. 20' or so to clear this. I'll give it a while to see if the reception improves or just wait it out until the other stations hit higher power levels like WPTA.

Anyone notice the audio issues with the HD Colts game on CBS? The play-by-play announcers and ambient sounds are quite quiet, then when the commercials or updates from the studio come in it's LOUD. Pretty annoying..

According to FCC files, WISE-DT 19 is currently operating with 9.9kW @ 771' (HAAT...height above average terrain). It does have a CP (construction permit) from the FCC to increase the power to 350kW, which will most likely happen by July 2006. With this lower power in mind, not all that far away (approx. 90 miles) is WTVG-DT 19, Toledo, OH cranking out 795kW @ 728' HAAT. Maybe you aren't seeing this Toledo station with your receiver but I would highly suspect that your receiver is seeing some of the signal from the Toledo station, which from time to time could be just enough signal to "fool" your receiver, or enough to mix with the WISE-DT 19 signal, making it difficult for your receiver to decode the right station. I live around 94 miles from most of the Ft. Wayne towers and 188 miles from the Toledo towers. I rarely receive WISE-DT but quite often during times of tropospheric enhancement, usually nighttime hours and early morning hours, I do receive WTVG-DT and many times it is with a very strong signal.
Last night for a minute or so, I locked on to another digital station that airs on 19: WGN, Chicago. That's right, the REAL WGN, not the cable TV superstation many Americans are used to seeing. I couldn't see a proper station ident before the signal went out, but I noticed that "Da Vinci's Inquest" was on (WGN's local schedule backs this up) and there were commercials for Chicagoland car dealers, which is proof enough for me. Weirder things have happened; I actually got 17% off of WFFT last night too, despite their best efforts. I've received WTVG Toledo for extended periods of time as well.

WISE (which isn't calling itself by that anymore, seems kind of backward) actually dies out towards the late night hours. Normally, I use just one rotor position which gets all of the stations in the 80s and 90s (except for one, guess which), but I have to turn it roughly 3 degrees at late night to get any kind of usable signal from WISE.

Looks like we may be able to finally pull in some HD Fox transmissions from South Bend's WSJV 28.1. Can't wait to get home and try to dial it in. Anyone else able to get it now?
Below is part of an email I just received from the chief engineer.

We increased our digital transmitter power to 220KW this morning at 8:51 a.m. This represented a doubling of power and the ability to replicate our analog coverage area. It is the final increase in power we will make until the FCC asks all stations to stop analog broadcasting. By that time we will have installed another digital transmitter that will actually transmit on Channel 28 and that will be our final transmitter (At present we transmit on Channel 58 and your set probably convertz that to 28.1). Let mw know how you are receiving us. Thanks.

David Gooding

Chief Engineer

WSJV-TV 28

Excellent, no more dropouts in the daytime! 28's only in the low 60s right now, but it beats being on the verge of breakup. I'll have to watch Prison Break tonight and see how the signal does then.

WFWA's stopped stretching the picture on 39.1; it looks a lot better.

WFWA's stopped stretching the picture on 39.1; it looks a lot better.

The only thing I notice now is that the side bars are not black, but a dark gray. Kinda distracting.

Looks like we may be able to finally pull in some HD Fox transmissions from South Bend's WSJV 28.1. Can't wait to get home and try to dial it in. Anyone else able to get it now?
Below is part of an email I just received from the chief engineer.

I turned my silver sensor the other direction tonight, and although I'm still not able to receive it, the signal bar is hovering right around 20-30%. My reciever rarely says no signal, rather just a black screen. I take this to mean my receiver is just not able to lock, but close. This is good news, being that I can get a hint of a signal at 62 miles out whereas wfft at 19 miles out gets nowhere near that close. I'll definitely try to get an outdoor up by the time of the first snow fall.

Ryan

EDIT:
I was thinking of puting up two antennas, one for South Bend and one for Fort Wayne joined by one of these:
http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/joiners.htm

I would get a channel 58 and run the south bend antenna into it, and use the Fort Wayne antenna for all other channels. Does anyone here have experience with these such joiners? How well do they combine the desired channel?

You're all going to find this hard to believe, but I have just managed to receive WFFT-DT, 30 miles away from the low-power transmitter. The signal's dropped off now, but it peaked at 38%, which is enough for the WatchHDTV program to display pictures; there wasn't a steady stream of frames, but enough to tell that Nanny 911 was on Fox. I had to switch my STB to analog 55 just to make sure I wasn't tripping or anything, but analog and digital matched up. You just can't beat troposphering ducting. Meanwhile, that power jump at WSJV helped tons; 91% max at night, WPTA's only 3 points more.

Sounds like we all should be able to receive WSJV now if we get the right setup going.

I still haven't been able to lock into WISE yet. I must just have my antenna in a bad spot for receiving them. Funny thing is that I can get WANE with nearly the same signal strength as WPTA.

I did the big turn on my antenna yesterday, pointing away from Fort wayne to Indy. I think I've got some fine tuning to do, but I'm guessing that South Bend and Indy are probably equidistant from Huntington.

All I really want is the ALCS and World Series in HD. 45 out of Indy seems to be a bit jumpy on my 8-bay Channel Master. Any ideas?

I'll assume you already have a pre-amp. That said if you do or don't the channel master pre-amps that mount on the pole right next to the antenna are the best at helping poor signals.

Also I think that the Elkhart FOX tower is probably much closer than the Indy towers. Antenna web.org shows the Elkhart FOX tower at 62.8 miles from Huntington. I'm guessing the Indy towers are 80-100 miles from Huntington.

Heck, you might be able to get both.

I am trying to help my brother hook up his new projector to Ft. Wayne Comcast. The picture looks good but not Hi-Def. When I bring up the OSD for the projector the resolution I get is only 480i for all of the Comcast HDTV stations. But if I hook up my OTA HDTV receiver the projector will then display 480i 720p or 1080i depending on what OTA station I am on. Is there a setting in the Comcast receiver? Is my thinking wrong? Thanks.

I am trying to help my brother hook up his new projector to Ft. Wayne Comcast. The picture looks good but not Hi-Def. When I bring up the OSD for the projector the resolution I get is only 480i for all of the Comcast HDTV stations. But if I hook up my OTA HDTV receiver the projector will then display 480i 720p or 1080i depending on what OTA station I am on. Is there a setting in the Comcast receiver? Is my thinking wrong? Thanks.


Yes comcast did the same thing to me when they installed my box.
Turn off the box, then hit menu. This will take you to the setup menu. You can then shoose the aspect ration of your projector and the resolution you want it to display.

Ben

hey notolowpower, i'm having a hard time convincing my dad to let me put up an antenna and had a few questions on your antenna setup. What type of antenna, pre-amp, mast height, etc. do you use? Also what is the terrain like around your house? I'm trying to get an idea of how good of signal I could get with an outdoor setup. I plan to get a channel master 8 bay bowtie along with a cm 7775 pre-amp and use rg6 quad sheild. The major thing that I think may impact my chances of getting wsjv are that there are quite a few large tall trees in the line of sight to southbend.

hey notolowpower, i'm having a hard time convincing my dad to let me put up an antenna and had a few questions on your antenna setup. What type of antenna, pre-amp, mast height, etc. do you use? Also what is the terrain like around your house? I'm trying to get an idea of how good of signal I could get with an outdoor setup. I plan to get a channel master 8 bay bowtie along with a cm 7775 pre-amp and use rg6 quad sheild. The major thing that I think may impact my chances of getting wsjv are that there are quite a few large tall trees in the line of sight to southbend.
I've got an AntennasDirect XG91 (which is a Yagi) on a 60-ft. tall mast, no preamp (although that might change if I ever develop a need to watch the WB and UPN in HD). As for the terrain, it's mostly farmland with some forestry, but there aren't any nearby obstructions, save for a few trees that are shorter than or equal to the tower in height. If you can get 20-30% inside for FOX, then an outdoor setup should receive WSJV adequately. You might not even need a preamp.

What's up with UnWISE33 lately? Law & Order: CI wasn't in Hi-Def at all tonight. Only about half of ER last Thursday was in Hi-Def. Are the engineers completely asleep at the control panel, or what? Can anyone provide a phone number so we can contact whoever is supposed to flip the switch to enable the Hi-Def feed?

Also, SNL last night was not in HD either. Even if this keeps up, we'll only have a few more weeks until eastern daylight goes to eastern standard at the end of the month.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the time change will help out wane's audio clicks as it has clicks even during the live football games.

For the last week I have no audio on 33.1. I get audio on 33.2 and all other OTA digital channels but nothing on 33.1. Any guess as to what is going on?

I've got an AntennasDirect XG91 (which is a Yagi) on a 60-ft. tall mast, no preamp (although that might change if I ever develop a need to watch the WB and UPN in HD). As for the terrain, it's mostly farmland with some forestry, but there aren't any nearby obstructions, save for a few trees that are shorter than or equal to the tower in height. If you can get 20-30% inside for FOX, then an outdoor setup should receive WSJV adequately. You might not even need a preamp.

I've monitored the signal strength from wsjv for a while now and its only at night that I'm able to get anything on the signal strength bar. The highest I'd probably be able to go is 25ft. If I'm not able to get anything with an outdoor setup, I'll just turn it towards fort wayne and use it instead of my indoor.

Do you think that a large yagi like what you have would work better than an 8-bay bowtie in my situation?

I've got an AntennasDirect XG91 (which is a Yagi) on a 60-ft. tall mast, no preamp (although that might change if I ever develop a need to watch the WB and UPN in HD). As for the terrain, it's mostly farmland with some forestry, but there aren't any nearby obstructions, save for a few trees that are shorter than or equal to the tower in height. If you can get 20-30% inside for FOX, then an outdoor setup should receive WSJV adequately. You might not even need a preamp.

I'd like to find someone that has had a CM 4228 and switched to a AD XG91. Have you ever had an 8-bay antenna at your site? I'm using a CM 4228 with a CM 7777 at 25 feet and I'm thinking about switching to a AD XG91. I can't get WANE-DT most of the time-WISE-DT is fine. Anyone have experience with both antennas?

bhorrell, Thank you for the Comcast box set up tip. I now have the projector showing in 720p. Vince

What's up with UnWISE33 lately? Law & Order: CI wasn't in Hi-Def at all tonight. Only about half of ER last Thursday was in Hi-Def. Are the engineers completely asleep at the control panel, or what? Can anyone provide a phone number so we can contact whoever is supposed to flip the switch to enable the Hi-Def feed?
I think NBC33 (nee WISE33, so much for changing those call letters) is on autopilot on the weekends. As I lamented before, the Triple Crown horse races never got simulcast in HD, even though they were live (this was before the delay server was installed). The NASCAR Busch Series race this weekend started out in SD but switched to HD later (I don't know how much later since I was only switching through channels). One common occurrence during the commercial breaks of live HD events like NASCAR is the appearance of a black screen with animations of the NBC peacock because WISE-DT didn't get switched from the HD feed to the analog upconvert. It's not uncommon to keep seeing a black screen long after the race ends and infomercials start. (Note, of course, that this doesn't happen on WISE analog.)

EDIT: Forgot to mention - seplant, WISE's website doesn't give a number for engineering, neither does WPTA's (I say that because WISE isn't run out of State Street anymore, but at WPTA studios on Butler Road). Try calling WPTA/WISE's front desk: 260-483-0584.

Do you think that a large yagi like what you have would work better than an 8-bay bowtie in my situation?

I'd like to find someone that has had a CM 4228 and switched to a AD XG91. Have you ever had an 8-bay antenna at your site? I'm using a CM 4228 with a CM 7777 at 25 feet and I'm thinking about switching to a AD XG91. I can't get WANE-DT most of the time-WISE-DT is fine. Anyone have experience with both antennas?

I've never used a bowtie, and even if I did, I wouldn't have a clue if it or a yagi would work better. Oldandslow, what's your signal strength on WISE? I would think that it would be the other way round: can't get WISE, can get WANE.

I've never used a bowtie, and even if I did, I wouldn't have a clue if it or a yagi would work better. Oldandslow, what's your signal strength on WISE? I would think that it would be the other way round: can't get WISE, can get WANE.

Thanks for the reply.

I don't understand it either--I'm getting WISE-DT (33.1/19.1-10,000 watts ERP) at "70-73" on the signal strength meter and WANE-DT (15.1/31.3-40,000 watts ERP) "0-50" on the signal strength meter (@ noon).

Perhaps I'm overloading the front-end of my mast mounted amplifier (CM7777). WNDY-DT (Strawtown, IN -1000kw digital channel- 23.1/32.1) is very strong here at my location at "87-89" on the SSM, even when I'm pointed at Ft. Wayne. That's one of the reasons I asked about the XG91. Better front-to-back ratio with the yagi.

I also have WMRI-FM (106.9- 50,000 watts) a mile from my house and it bleeds over into everything. I read "41" on some empty channels even with the FM trap in the amplifier turned on.

This will require more investigation. :)

Thanks for the reply.

I don't understand it either--I'm getting WISE-DT (33.1/19.1-10,000 watts ERP) at "70-73" on the signal strength meter and WANE-DT (15.1/31.3-40,000 watts ERP) "0-50" on the signal strength meter (@ noon).



It is really very simple. It all comes down to height. In Marion you are about 45 miles as the crow flies from the towers. WANE's DTV antenna is only 88 meters "Height Above Average Terrain". WISE is at 240 meters HAAT. WANE's signal is simply running into the ground before you have a chance to pick it out of the air. This clearly shows that good line of sight is far more important than the total power level. The height of the antenna on both ends ultimately determines the clear path distance for these UHF signals. They travel in straight lines and don't much follow the curve of the earth. (I'm not counting ducting here just straight line paths).

If the receive antenna was on the ground (0 feet) the distance to the horizon path for WANE is 23 miles in round numbers. For WISE it is 38. Throw in some height on the receive end and you extend these a bit. This all assumes flat terrain so real world results will vary. The FCC uses signal coverage predictions that take terrain into account.

Another factor here is signal being absorbed by vegetation. A few leafy tree lines between you and WANE can kill a large portion of the signal. If this is the case it will be changing soon as the leaves drop.

I hope this helps you a bit.

Regards

MK

Yes, I didn't realize WANE-DT was at 88 meters. I read their licences at:

WANE-DT (http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProFacLookup.php?sCurrentService=TV&calls=WANE&tabSearchType=Call+Sign+Search)

and it looked like they had been granted 253 meters HAAT at 82KW. That would get them out to 41 miles. Since I'm at 25 feet that would add another 7 miles or 48 total. Since I'm at 42.7 air miles, that should so it.

Line of sight calculator (http://www.qsl.net/kd4sai/distance.html)

At 88 meters, however, or 24 miles with my 7 miles or 31 miles total, I'm SOL! :)

Yes, I didn't realize WANE-DT was at 88 meters. I read their licences at:

and it looked like they had been granted 253 meters HAAT at 82KW. That would get them out to 41 miles. Since I'm at 25 feet that would add another 7 miles or 48 total. Since I'm at 42.7 air miles, that should so it.

At 88 meters, however, or 24 miles with my 7 miles or 31 miles total, I'm SOL! :)

They are currently running under the STA license until they resolve some tower issues that will allow them to install the antenna near the top of the tower. One thing I did not think about was that the antenna is mounted on the north-east side of the tower which decreases the radiation pattern towards you quite a bit.

A lot of the that 40kw never makes it out your way. You only see about 55 - 65 % of the signal because of tower shielding and the cardoid shaped antenna pattern.

MK

Hey, my parents live in FW and they're getting an HDTV soon, which I'll undoubtedly end up setting up for them. They have Comcast and I was hoping we could just upgrade them to their HD service, but I have no idea what they offer, and I can't get much info off the website.

Can anyone who has Comcast tell me which channels they offer (including which locals, if any)? Also, how's the pricing for the programming plus the equipment rental? Right now they have regular digital boxes and whichever programming package has every channel (always thought that was odd considering they only watch a few channels anyway and all the kids have moved out). Do the boxes have DVI/HDMI, or just component out?

Any help would be appreciated.

Here is the real scoop on WANE-DT.

Full Power (1000k) is stuck in paperwork issues at the FCC. Unfortunately, progress has been a little slowwwwwwww.

The comment on the WANE tower is not accurate as the structure is capable and ready to hold the new full power antenna. Everything except the antenna is in place and ready.

We are working on a power increase that "oldandslow" came across on the internet. This will allow us to raise the existing DTV antenna to the top of the tower and increase the output power. It won't be full power, but it should be a definite improvement.

Here is the real scoop on WANE-DT.

Full Power (1000k) is stuck in paperwork issues at the FCC. Unfortunately, progress has been a little slowwwwwwww.

The comment on the WANE tower is not accurate as the structure is capable and ready to hold the new full power antenna. Everything except the antenna is in place and ready.

We are working on a power increase that "oldandslow" came across on the internet. This will allow us to raise the existing DTV antenna to the top of the tower and increase the output power. It won't be full power, but it should be a definite improvement.

Thanks, Mark, for the scoop!

Larry

Hey Mark,
I've tested everything I can think of, but there are still audio clicks on Wane. Lately, they have gotten worse such that they happen about every minute or so. Sometimes right after a click I'll loose all audio. This happens on wane dt over the air and through cable. My friend with the same receiver (lg 4200a) also has the same problem, and a friend with a sylvania also has the problem. I've tried different antennas, but nothing seems to change. Is this a problem on your end, or is there something else that could be causing it? It seems like it wouldn't be interference because it only affects the audio and not the video.

Ryan

Hey, my parents live in FW and they're getting an HDTV soon, which I'll undoubtedly end up setting up for them. They have Comcast and I was hoping we could just upgrade them to their HD service, but I have no idea what they offer, and I can't get much info off the website.

Can anyone who has Comcast tell me which channels they offer (including which locals, if any)? Also, how's the pricing for the programming plus the equipment rental? Right now they have regular digital boxes and whichever programming package has every channel (always thought that was odd considering they only watch a few channels anyway and all the kids have moved out). Do the boxes have DVI/HDMI, or just component out?

Any help would be appreciated.

AlanSaysYo,

Comcast in FW offers the following in HD:

ESPN
TNT
DiscoveryHD
INHD
INHD2
HD Special Events
WPTA
WISE
WANE
All premium movie channels (HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, Stars, etc.)

If your parents already have the Comcast full digital package (I'm paying around $63 per month for my digital package), then to upgrade to HD with a dual tuner DVR is only $9.95 per month more. If your parents already get any of the premium movie channels, then I believe it is no extra cost to get those channels in HD (I don't get any of the premium movie channels, but when HBO has their free promotions, I get HBO in HD just fine.) The HD Special Events channel is usually not showing any programming, and when they do, they usually show repeats of INHD and NFL channel programming.

The HD DVR box has component and DVI outputs, but I don't know if the DVI is turned on. I've never tried it.

Hope this helps.

Here's to hoping that the ND/USC game really is in HD tomorrow. WISE, please help us out.

I am wondering about the HD programming people are getting from WPTA and WANE. I have Comcast and the WPTA's and WANE's channels are bad at best. Even primetime programming is so pixelated you can't make anything out. I am wondering if this is strictly the feed that they are sending Comcast or if OTA is also just as bad.

Its been this way for about a week and a half, and before these two channels seemed to just be getting it right before this blackout. I have called Comcast three times and they have told me that these stations are upgrading equipment and they don't know why they aren't done yet. Thanks in advance for any information.

OTA in Huntington has been great lately.

Hi guys. Sorry to hijack this conversation, and I admit that I didn't read all 30 pages of this thread :rolleyes: - but I'm grabbing my first HDTV this Friday, and I was wondering what kind of OTA HD reception I can expect from a set-top antenna? I live a few miles east of Carroll HS. My SD reception is fine, except for Fox.

Thanks :D

Hi guys. Sorry to hijack this conversation, and I admit that I didn't read all 30 pages of this thread :rolleyes: - but I'm grabbing my first HDTV this Friday, and I was wondering what kind of OTA HD reception I can expect from a set-top antenna? I live a few miles east of Carroll HS. My SD reception is fine, except for Fox.

Thanks :D


good question! Depends a lot on your lot, amount of bldgs and trees, placement of antenna in room, amount of windows in room....etc
I bet you will be able to get ok results if you play around with it enough.
I'm not far from you in Allen County near Busco and have a small rooftop antenna with line of sight to the towers and get excellent reception of everything but Fox...and that's with a 75 foot cable run with a splitter and no preamp.
I was able to convince my wife that a jacked up indoor antenna was much more obtrusive than a nice rooftop version that she would hardly ever need to even look at!
Now that she is hooked on HDTV, I was able to convince her that a 2nd (20ft) mast and antenna (to receive South Bend stations) would be worth it too!
:p

WPTA 21-2 has gone back to ABC News Now, again. I kind of wondered why, at the end of 21's 5:00PM newscasts, Melissa Long plugged ABC News Now when 21-2 was showing radar instead. You can tell whenever one of the on-air people advertise any kind of DTV that they don't know crap about it.

Has anybody seen any HDTV or widescreen SDTV on 39 since they dumped PBS's HD channel? There was a Frontline show that was simulcast in widescreen, but it was shown in analog 4:3, letterboxed.

I asked here about the difference in signal strength between the CM4228 and the Antennas Direct XG91 (sometimes called the 91XG). No one had the two antennas so I bought a XG91 to replace my CM4228 and made the comparison myself. I've posted the results at: My Antenna Experience (http://home.indy.rr.com/challengerul/antenna.html)

Thanks to all here for your help. I hope my experiences help someone else.

Larry

Larry,

Great write up on the comparison of the two antennas. Should help out a lot of people in the Ft. Wayne area on selecting an antenna for their needs. I may now have to get a rotor to attempt to receive a few more channels.

Keep us posted on how the setup works with the winter weather upcoming.

I've been debating on a rotor and getting a higher power antenna like your 91XG. Only thing is I refuse to go on my roof to install it....so I'll guess I'll probably end up calling somewhere to get it installed after the 1st of the year.

Larry, I'd like to see what your signal strength is for the SB stations. I live about ten miles north of you and am having better luck with SB as compared to Indy.

I don't have a lot of luck with SB stations. I can get the analog signals all the time but the digital signals don't lock in most of the time. Indy digital stations, and Ft. Wayne digital signals, are good with signal strength in the 60's and 70's. I'm in an ideal area, really, as I can receive Indy, Ft. Wayne, and CBS out of Lafayette.

As all have mentioned, antenna height is the answer. Every time I raised the antennas up 5 or 6 more feet, another signal got better.

The CM rotator is sweet. I really like the way you can program in the channel and it will then go to that position every time.

WFWA-DT is now four SD subchannels, all 704x480. -3 and -4 are in color bars at the moment, but not for long...

From their website (http://www.wfwa.org/whatsnew/SDTVLaunch.html):
PBS39 now offers 4 Digital Channnels

Beginning Monday, October 31, 2005, PBS39 will expand the scope of its digital broadcast service to area viewers.

PBS39 now will multicast four digital channels alongside its analog channel 39. We were the first to begin digital operations in the Fort Wayne area in 2003, and now, with this latest development, we are the first to offer more than two simple digital channels for our viewers and even more choices for our viewers

So, how can we do this?

Digital Broadcast technology offers a more precise frequency to broadcast within over-the-air. Simply put, with digital, PBS39 can now use the full measure of its digital frequency and bandwidth to offer multiple channels free and over-the-air, direct to you and your family. In addition to our multicasting capability, PBS39 also will continue to air High-Definition TV (HDTV) programs as they are available in our program schedule.

As a result, PBS39 offers area digital TV viewers 4 separate TV channels to choose from:

39-1 — PBS39:
A simulcast of PBS39’s traditional analog broadcast

39-2 — Kids39 Digital:
Coming soon, a 24/7 channel of PBS’s award winning educational children’s programming.

39-3 — PBS39 Encore:
A 24-hour delayed broadcast of PBS’s satellite-fed national program schedule

39-4 — The Annenberg/CPB Channel:
A professional development distance education channel for teachers and educators.
Hopefully, they'll pass along SD widescreen shows too; can they do that and not have to shut off the other subchannels?

Hopefully, they'll pass along SD widescreen shows too; can they do that and not have to shut off the other subchannels?

I hope they can improve the picture on the subchannels, today the picture was like they took out a few frames. it was very difficult to watch.

Also 21-2 is ABC News, will that stay or will it go back to radar? Does anyone else have trouble with the picture and/or sound freezing? I get very good signal strength, but the picture freezes quite often.

Also 21-2 is ABC News, will that stay or will it go back to radar? Does anyone else have trouble with the picture and/or sound freezing? I get very good signal strength, but the picture freezes quite often.
21-2 is not currently showing the radar for one real reason: the radar's broken. For several days before they took it off, you could sometimes see "precipitation" show up in stripes when there was not a drop of rain around. If only I had a screencap; I recall watching the news and seeing Curtis Smith do a preview of the weather with the radar screen behind him showing an obviously inaccurate picture (it wasn't raining on that day either). I'm sure it'll be back, seeing how 21 and 33 keep putting these ads on about the weather subchannels.

Speaking of which, just another reminder to the responsible people at Granite/WPTA/WISE: If you're gonna push the weather subchannels on the air, PUSH HDTV! Doesn't airing HDTV count as "growing to serve [us] better?"

Another note: I didn't catch all of it, so I don't know there were any technical problems, but kudos to 33 for carrying the Breeders Cup races in HD on Saturday.

Some surprises this week on HD out here in Huntington.

Pointed my antenna to the NorthEast to start getting stations out of South Bend. I can only receive channel 22 on a consistant basis, but on clear evenings I've been getting most of the South Bend channels and Channels 7, 11, 38, & 50 out of Chicago.

I would trade it all though for a decently received Fox HD signal.

Some surprises this week on HD out here in Huntington.

Pointed my antenna to the NorthEast to start getting stations out of South Bend. I can only receive channel 22 on a consistant basis, but on clear evenings I've been getting most of the South Bend channels and Channels 7, 11, 38, & 50 out of Chicago.

I would trade it all though for a decently received Fox HD signal.

Have you tried looking south to Indianapolis? I receive Fox 59 from Indy very well and I'm four miles north of Marion. Fox 59 has the best PQ of all the stations I receive. Their SD signal looks like HD. Their HD is really something to see. Maybe when the leafs are off, you can receive 59?

Out of curiosity, has anyone in the Fort Wayne or Huntington area been able to receive the new WIPB-DT 52 (49.1 and 49.2), Muncie, IN? The station just signed on Monday afternoon and is transmitting with 140kW @ around 800 feet from a new tower/transmitter facility just south of Muncie near the small town of Cowan. I just noticed that Cowan sits at 991 feet ASL, one the highest elevation points in the state. Factor this in with its new 800 foot tower and I would think that viewers especially in the Huntington area should be able to receive this station most of the time. It appears that Huntington is approximately 54 miles from the tower. I live 40 miles from the tower and I'm able to receive a 70-80% signal reading with an indoor Zenith Silver Sensor (with no amplification).

BTW, WIPB-DT appears to be sending the PBS-HD programming (1080i) 24/7 and is currently operating just one additional subchannel. IMHO, their PQ is better than local WFYI-DT (720p), Indianapolis.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Steve

Out of curiosity, has anyone in the Fort Wayne or Huntington area been able to receive the new WIPB-DT 52 (49.1 and 49.2), Muncie, IN? The station just signed on Monday afternoon and is transmitting with 140kW @ around 800 feet from a new tower/transmitter facility just south of Muncie near the small town of Cowan. I just noticed that Cowan sits at 991 feet ASL, one the highest elevation points in the state. Factor this in with its new 800 foot tower and I would think that viewers especially in the Huntington area should be able to receive this station most of the time. It appears that Huntington is approximately 54 miles from the tower. I live 40 miles from the tower and I'm able to receive a 70-80% signal reading with an indoor Zenith Silver Sensor (with no amplification).

BTW, WIPB-DT appears to be sending the PBS-HD programming (1080i) 24/7 and is currently operating just one additional subchannel. IMHO, their PQ is better than local WFYI-DT (720p), Indianapolis.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Steve

I'm just north of Marion and I receive both stations at "70"- unless I turn my antenna toward Muncie, then it goes up to "98". I agree; there's a nice improvement of PQ on WIPB-DT.

LOL, Keith Edwards of WPTA just plugged GMA in HD tomorrow morning on digital channel 22.1.

Edit: I'm about ready to go down there and give a digital seminar free to the news anchors so that they get it right when they do plug digital. I cannot believe that the most recognizable faces of these places don't at least have a small clue of what is going on.

LOL, Keith Edwards of WPTA just plugged GMA in HD tomorrow morning on digital channel 22.1.
You beat me to it, Ryan. I was about to show WPTA some much-needed love until Keith said the wrong number. One can only hope it was a typo on the part of the script writer. BTW, there was a Consumer Reports segment on HDTVs yesterday on 21's news; I tuned into ch. 33 as the segment was running and no mention was made about the DT stations.

If my antenna's turned toward South Bend, I can watch The Early Show on 22.1, but GMA, trick please. :rolleyes:

Edit: Don't bother, Ryan, unless the anchors write what goes on the Teleprompters. If that isn't the case, then all they're there for is to read what's given to them; when's the last time you've seen Keith (fresh off a two-week suspension for sexist comments) Edwards do a field report?

You beat me to it, Ryan. I was about to show WPTA some much-needed love until Keith said the wrong number. One can only hope it was a typo on the part of the script writer. BTW, there was a Consumer Reports segment on HDTVs yesterday on 21's news; I tuned into ch. 33 as the segment was running and no mention was made about the DT stations.

If my antenna's turned toward South Bend, I can watch The Early Show on 22.1, but GMA, trick please. :rolleyes:

Edit: Don't bother, Ryan, unless the anchors write what goes on the Teleprompters. If that isn't the case, then all they're there for is to read what's given to them; when's the last time you've seen Keith (fresh off a two-week suspension for sexist comments) Edwards do a field report?

Well, I guess in the end it doesn't matter whose fault it is. If I were the managers of that place and just spent butt loads of money upgrading to HD, I'd make sure that it was advertised correctly. And I'd plug HD every chance I got.

Oh, BTW, I just finished my install of a Channel Master 4228 with 7775 preamp. No WSJV lovin' here. The signal is usually around 20-30%, but I've never had a lock yet. On the other hand, I have had a lock on 16.1, but that was later at night. I'll leave it pointed towards SB till a week or so after the leaves all fall, but then if I don't get WSJV, I'll just turn it towards FW for the winter. With it pointed towards SB, I still get great signal strength on the FW stations, but WISE gets flaky at night pointed 50 degrees off axis.

After not being able to receive WSJV, I wrote a letter and sent it to Nexstar's Headquarters in Texas. Here is what I wrote:

To Whom It May Concern:

I am a viewer of the WFFT Fox television station that you own in Fort Wayne, Indiana. The Fox Network provides some excellent programming such as NFL Football, 24, American Idol, and The O.C. It is very unfortunate that I am unable to view these programs in High Definition on my HDTV because WFFT is not HD capable. I understand that the cost to upgrade to HD is great, but WFFT is the last TV station in the Fort Wayne market that is not capable of broadcasting in High Definition. I have many friends that live in this area that were able to put up an antenna just for the sake of receiving WSJV Fox 28 in HD from South Bend. Without HD, you may find that more of your viewers will do the same.

I work in a retail electronics store that sells HDTVs. A few years ago, when HDTV was new, it was acceptable not to have an HD broadcast since many people didn’t have HDTVs; and those who did, did not have the ability to receive an Over-The-Air HD signal. Now, however, the situation is quite different. Almost all of the HDTVs we sell come with an integrated HD tuner, and for a very reasonable price. Every day that passes, and with every HDTV we sell, more and more people will realize that you do not provide the Fox HD feed. This makes for some upset viewers when Fox touts its 720p – Dolby 5.1 HD coverage of sports.

I hope that you plan to upgrade WFFT to HD very soon. Even though the cost is great, it is an investment in your future. Digital is in by law, analog will be out by law, while HD will most certainly be demanded by your viewers. Please inform me of your plans for the future of WFFT in regard to High Definition.

Sincerely,


Ryan Dunn


I'll share their response if/when I get one.

Ryan, thank u for all the good info ...
Sure will be anxious to see if u get a reply to the letter regarding WFFT (55) and HDTV. I live in SW Fort Wayne and would love to be able to receive WSJV in HD, but if u were not able to receive it with your 4228 and 7775 per-amp, I doubt if i will be able to either. I presume u have your antenna mounted outside and a rotor..??

I would like to hear from anyone in SW Fort Wayne using UHF HDTV antennas. I would like to know what to expect from this area..

Just wonder if anyone in Fort Wayne is receiving WIPB in HD and what antenna is being used...I live in SW Fort Wayne, and am deciding what antenna to use ... need help... currently i am using a 4 stack bow-tie in my attic... i get Fort Wayne stations ok..but hope to get WSJV Fox and WIPB from Marion.

I suspect one of my biggest problems are the huge trees in my neighbors yard that are in direct LOS of the WSJV tower ( or any SB tower for that matter). Yes, my antenna is installed outside on the tip of my eaves making the antenna height about 25ft or so. Right now I don't have a rotor. I would really like one, but I just spent around 190 on all the stuff related to my antenna install, so the extra 60 or so is kinda to much right now. Maybe later on. (My actual total is more than that, but i'm not counting most of the 500 ft roll of RG6QS, compression connectors, cable straps, etc., I'm planning on installing a couple antennas for my friends and only charging for parts, so i'll make my money back). I doubt I'd get the PBS from Muncie from my location, but it's worth a shot at manually rotating my antenna to see what I can get.

Haven't done any searching yet but I'm guessing the storms last night had some significant effects on the transmitting ability of all the F.W. stations.

I'm unable to get any of them including the analog stations.

First thing I did was to check that my antenna was still on the roof and pointed in the right direction and it still is. Only possibility is that the pre-amp mounted on the mast got fried. This very well could be it too.

Anyone else having the same problem?

Haven't done any searching yet but I'm guessing the storms last night had some significant effects on the transmitting ability of all the F.W. stations.

I'm unable to get any of them including the analog stations.

First thing I did was to check that my antenna was still on the roof and pointed in the right direction and it still is. Only possibility is that the pre-amp mounted on the mast got fried. This very well could be it too.

Anyone else having the same problem?

Just checked both the analog and digital transmitters at WANE. Both of them did take a power hit around 3 this morning, but did as they are programmed to do and auto-restarted and were off all of about 30 seconds.

I know that the HD was on the air this afternoon as I was talking with a viewer who was watching football on it earlier today.

Found the problem.

The surge protector that the pre-amp is plug into was tripped, therefore not outputting any power.

I think I'm going to try disconnecting the pre-amp today though and see what I get. Lately I haven't been able to lock on to WPTA too well. I'm thinking that maybe the signal is too strong with the pre-amp and it's messing up the receiver from processing it properly.

Sucks that I was too stupid to figure this out yesterday. Would have liked to watch the steelers packers game in HD.

Glad you found the problem. I found it odd you lost all the channels.

Weather graphics are getting in the way of HD again. WANE defeats WPTA & WISE; at least they kept their automatic switcher on, sparing NCIS viewers from missing any action because of damned weather updates (Really, Sandy Thomson got cut off mid-sentence!). I swear, when analog goes away, the stations better use the weather subchannels and leave the main programs alone. As I type this, WISE switched to HD for My Name Is Earl. Oh well, I guess it beats watching WNDU; their weather graphics plus stretch-o-vision really make for a hellish viewing experience.

Weather graphics are getting in the way of HD again. weather graphics plus stretch-o-vision really make for a hellish viewing experience.
stretch-o-vision heh heh :)

There is nothing worse than having a program that I am recording in HD for archival get all messed up by a lame weather crawl, or interrupted for a non-emergency "breaking" weather flash. It really ruins a program and looks ridiculous when you go back to watch the program a couple of months later.
Maybe some genius can come up with a quick non-intrusive way to tell viewers to turn to a sub-channel for announcements or breaking weather info...maybe slip the message in quickly instead of running the usual self-promo ads they run for their news or weather teams.

oh well. nice to dream. rant over. :rolleyes:

You can thank the people of the Indy thread for the term stretch-o-vision, but it looks to have finally died in that market save for their NBC.
Maybe some genius can come up with a quick non-intrusive way to tell viewers to turn to a sub-channel for announcements or breaking weather info...maybe slip the message in quickly instead of running the usual self-promo ads they run for their news or weather teams.
Exactly what I was thinking. I mean, we all know when the news is on, right? If they can do the whole Emergency Broadcast System deal, why not devise a system so that when bad weather strikes, it'll use local promo time to flash a warning for specific counties to tune in to the subchannel. I guess we can only wait until the shutoff occurs. By then, the stations will probably have HD character generators and use those to pervert the picture (WPTA sometimes overlays station ID over the HD channel, so they might already own one).