As of today June, 11 Ft,Wayne has Digital 36 Fox . The omni directional antenna is mounted 200 feet off the ground with 100 watts running to the antenna. I am located 8 miles from the tower and only once did the signal lock on for 3 minutes. NBC digital 19 is on and the panel antenna is side mounted to the tower at 400 feet above ground level with 500 watts running to the antenna. I can lock on to this signal and do see some break ups every few minutes. Pbs digital 40-1 40-2 is on and thier new antenna is mounted at the top of 700 ft tower. HDTV is only on 40-1 PBS. TBN digital 12 is located 26 miles North East of here and is viewable. Of course a Highband VHF antenna is aimed only at this station. I was told by the Chief Engr. at WISE TV digital 19 that a new rulling is coming down that to have a total digital tv market and analog shut off forever, Eighty percent of the market must have digital receivers. hOW IN THE hell ARE THESE idiots GOING TO KEEP A COUNT? Analog tv is here for quite sometime and this area for Digital conversion is making me sick.

I got a kick out of WISE's commercial stating they're the first local HD channel. As far as I recall, WFWA beat them to it. Also, could WISE possibly transmit one 16:9 1080i broadcast over the air instead of up converting and cropping 4:3 material? I'll stick to my current gray HD selections ;).

I live off Dupont Rd. Near Tonkle RD. and was wondering what part of the city your in ? Also do you receive Fox on 36? And can you get digital Vhf 12 WINM?

I live in Hearthstone off Wallen so I'm pretty close to you. I do get WFFT-DT 36 but the signal is very weak. I use an indoor Recoton antenna connected to an amp which I found works better than the Silver Sensor. My SS is going back to Best Buy. I've tried using an outdoor VHF antenna indoors and was unable to get WINM-DT. Depending on signal strengths when all of the DTV channels go live, I'll probably put an antenna on my house with a rotor.

I live on the east side of town a little past georgetown. I get 36-1 around 35% with a Zenith SS in my attic. I usually pull everything else in at 75 - 100 percent. I have it split running to two rooms with about 75 feet of coax run without an amp and it works great.

TKO: I noticed that advertisement on WISE last night that they were the first but it says commercially funded or something like that at the bottom for a split second, so maybe they changed it after a few complaints from WFWA. And I also hate the way that they crop everything.

Well, I live out on the southwest side of Huntington and tonight I've been able to latch into PBS-39.01 & 39.02 quite well (still working on what the actual signal strength is). I've got an amplified indoor antenna and it's worked great so far. Still getting some digital artifacts on the screen every now and then.

Speaking of which, does anyone know a good antenna installer in the area?

Is WISE running at full power yet? Reason I ask is that I've never been able to get a lock on signal wise out here in Huntington. The only thing I can consistently get is WFWA.

I also live in Huntington. Been waiting to purchase ota HDTV receiver until Ft. Wayne was broadcasting. Although their power output is currently very low, they are at least making an attempt. Hopefully by fall they will all have turned up their power so that I can get them. Would be great to get all of the ota programming that I currently don't get.

Right now I only have D*, no locals except the analog signal I get with rabbit ears, and this doesn't look good on hdtv set.

It's great to hear some positive news about Ft. Wayne stations broadcasting digital!!

My new Zenith HDV420 shipped today! I'm in Van Wert and have a large (RS# VU-120 XR) roof mounted antenna with a rotor. I'm hoping to receive everything from Ft. Wayne and Lima, OH. With any luck, I'll also get Bowling Green and Angola.

Sorry to hear about WISE upconverting and cropping :mad:

Any tips for a new guy?

bwohlgemuth: I emailed WISE's engineer last week asking him that and he said that right now they just have their temporary antenna up and that in the next month they will have something permanent up. He also stated that they are not currently broadcasting in HD, that the current plan is to just feed the standard across digital. Even though their commercial states that they are the first in commericially funded station in fort wayne to broadcast in HD.

And of course, after I sent that post I got my first lock-on with WISE tonight. It said "Hi Def" but it looked like upconverted 480i to 1080i personally.

I checked antennaweb.org this weekend and it looks like WANE has moved back their digital date to Nov 30.

Nov 30th?

That stinks. It seems that CBS has the most primetime television programs in HD of all the networks and that will be the last channel for us to get. Not only that CBS uses 1080i, which for most people gives the best experience. It would be nice to get some football games in hi-def in the fall and definetely March Madness will be great come next spring.

Having ABC this fall will be good though, MNF in HD will be great!

I can deal without the Dolts games (and I'm not too surprised about WANE's lack of progress). Just as long as ABC is broadcasting by Sept 28th, I'll be happy!

WANE is still dealing with the FCC in finalizing its DTV channel switch from 4 to 31. There are a number of steps the company (LIN....sister station to WISH, Indy) has had to deal with and some of those are still continuing. In order to make the switch they even had to wait for Canadian approval due to Ft. Wayne's proximity to the border. It is unfortunate that WANE-DT was originally assigned ch. 4 in an all UHF market. From what I know this is one of the main reasons for the new channel request. From what I know locally and have read online, LIN has done a nice job getting DTV stations on the air.

Steve

I guess that I am confused about something. WISE states that they are the first to broadcast in HD. From what I can tell they don't have that completely right. My image is cropped and from what I have read everyone else's is. But the picture that I am getting does look good, but I'm not sure if it is 1080 or what. If anyone knows please fill me in. Plus won't all of the stations that switching to digital need to broadcast on at least two sub channels if they are running 1080 like PBS currently does? I'm saying this because I believe that they will have to support standard and hd digital signals until the standard def tv's are gone. So I would assume that all of the new channels that have switched over recently are only running a standard digital broadcast. If some one out there has any info please let me know. Right now from what I can tell PBS is the only true HD channel available in fort wayne.

Goldrich, I ended up on the WANE mailing list for HDTV. The change to 31 is a done deal, they are waiting for a construction permit from the FCC so they can build the new station.

AS of Tuesday Wpta has the new antenna in place at the top of the tower and the workers are currently putting up new wave guide to the antenna. Wise has the new antenna at the station but it is on the ground waiting for the tower crew to do its magic. Again Fox dt-36 is 200ft. off the ground with 100 watts running to the side mounted antenna. The only thing we can do is be patient .

Just got my antenna installed today from Starlight. They put up an 8Bow in my attic, I'll let you know if I can get anything tonight!

Ugh, anyone know if 19 is broadcasting tonight. I'm sure they are, but this new antenna didn't do much. I'm sure I need an amplifier, the tech thought my multiswitch would act as one.

Yes WISE is on tonight, as I type. 98-100% signal strength. That is what I normally get for 19, so I would say it's a normal day at WISE. 50% and rarely a picture for FOX 36, less than 3 miles from the towers. Also thinking of adding an amplifier. 2 diplexors and a multiswitch in-line, sounds similar to your situation.

Good Luck!!

Well, I'm up and running in the digital domain! I don't have my list on me, but I'm pulling in about 7 channels. I'm getting channels from: Lima, Angola, Ft. Wayne, and even one from Toledo. I'm very satisfied with performance of my equipment, though the fact that most of the transmissions are upconverted 480i burns me. Thank the heavens for PBS! Even if it is demo material, my wife and I sat there unblinking for an hour last night just to bath in the full glory of 1080i.

One question: I noticed that when I tune to 40-1 the HDV420 automatically changes to 39-1; it is still PBS, though. The same thing happens when I tune in 12-1; it changes to 63-1, but is still TBN. Is this something I should be concerned about?

No that is normal. I get 36-1 at 55-1. They do this so because we all remember that WFFT for instance is channel 55. My guess is that it is viewed as a convienent way to list their channel.

CGGorman & ceconl:

See pp. 86 & 87 of http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_65b.pdf for an explanation of analog and digital channel numbering.

Just an FYI to those in Fort Wayne. Best Buy has a Samsung (I think) D-VHS VCR for under $600. And while I was there last night, I picked up a Zenith Silver Sensor antenna. I could easily pick up 39 and 23 from Indy just from the top of my set.

Two stations out of Indy? That's great, they must be transmitting at a really high power. What signal strength were you getting, any dropouts, etc?

If we can pull in Indy stations who cares about the Ft. Wayne channels. It's not like their broadcasting the local news in 1080i.

Has anyone talked to WISE about when they will start broadcasting true 1080i pictures as opposed to cropped 480i??

Update from WPTA (copied straight from the e-mail):

During the last few weeks, WPTA has been operating at a lower power than normal. We are installing our new digital antenna. We expect the installation to be completed by July 9th.

When the new antenna is installed, analog over-the-air reception will improve dramatically.

Digital broadcasting will not begin until later this year as we must yet install our digital transmitter. Our target date for digital transmission is September 30.

Thank you for your patience.


September 29th is the first Bears game in the new stadium which will be broadcasted in HDTV nationwide. I've asked them to see if they can move it up a day or two! :-)

Would be great if we could get Bears vs. Packers in the opening game for the renovated Soldier Field in HD. Not only that but the rest of the MNF football games for the year.

Although since they won't be broadcasting digital until then I can't imagine that it would be HD right away. If they're like any other station they will broadcast a cropped up-converted image.


We'll hope for the best though.:)

As usual, I have my tuner rescan the channels each and every night. Tonight, I got a treat.

All the major Indy channels, along with Muncie and Marion. I was literally in HD heaven. So who cranked up the trophosphere tonight?

Could you let us know exactly what channels you are getting and the signal strength that they are coming in at?

Are you using the antenna you installed in your attic or a silver sensor?

Thanks,

Jason

When Wane tv got rid of thier old transmitter the analog one they had the old top antenna removed as well. They had new wave guide installed to the new antanna. Also they left the old wave guide in place for digital signal. Then the anlog power went from 434,000 watts erp to 2.5 million watts erp. I was told that the top antenna installed handled analog and digital transmissions as the one PBS has in place now. Take a look at the new antenna channel 21 just put up it looks awesome. This antenna has four feeds going into it and handles analog and digital transmissions also. I do have pictures of the new antenna on the ground with a look at the inside four feed tubes.

the anlog power went from 434,000 watts erp to 2.5 million watts

WANE by far has the clearest analog signal reception of all the Ft. Wayne channels. This must be evidence of the high power that they are transmitting at.

I only wish that they were broadcasting a digital HD signal as CBS seems to be the leader in primetime HD content.

WANE has been really clear over the past few weeks as far as the analog side goes. WPTA is pretty weak.

Any chance of posting the pics of the antenna J?

Any chance of posting the pics of the antenna J?

Yeah, I'll have to remember to bring home the digital camera from work. Give me a few days as I don't usually get home from work before it's dark, I'll have to take a pic in the morning before work.

I got the antenna at Radio Shack (the one connected to do it center), it was the $35 model that picks up vhf/uhf/fm, you can go there and check it out too if you want.

I don't have an amplifier hooked up either. Using a 50' cable of rg-6 from the surge protector to the antenna. I am curious to see if a signal amp will help at all. Not really in a hurry to buy one though because the signal is fine without one. I really can't wait to test it out on some digital signals.

Anyone know of Problems with WFWA-HD? All I'm getting is a green screen. I've reset my TV, which worries me if the chip for 1080i has gone boom.

I've been getting the same thing. No idea what is going on though.

Just spoke to Brian over in Engineering at WFWA. Their satellite dish which receives the HD programming was damaged in the storms over the weekend. No ETA at this point when it will be back online.

Starlight was out again today, this time moving my attic install to the top of the roof. Now I can clearly get 19 & 39 and to a surprise, 36. He double checked with 36 and they are still broadcasting at 100 watts at 200 feet.

Still can't get 23 or the Indy stations. Might have to install a second antenna at some point.

I am curious to find out how many Fort Wayne residents are receiving Indianapolis digital channels? The other day I was getting 23-1 and 25-1 out of Indy, it's kind of off and on whether I get them or not. But I'm thinking about moving my antenna outside. Right now I'm running a Winegard 4400 in my attic. If I point it to the north sometimes I can get 6 and 8 out of Detroit, but only at 30 percent and it is very rare. So I guess my question is if I moved this thing outside would I get the Indy channels on a regular basis. Btw I live on the east side of town around the New Haven/Fort Wayne line off of Maysville Road. Let me know of anyone else's experiences.

I am curious to find out how many Fort Wayne residents are receiving Indianapolis digital channels?

I usually get at least ch 23 (DT32) out of Marion on a nightly basis. In fact, after throwing a 12dB amp on my Silver Sensor, I have no problems getting all the Fort Wayne, Marion, and most of the Indy stations. I find the biggest problem is with elevation when it comes to the Indy channels. Be ready to get a really tall mast if you live in a valley at all or if you have large trees.

BTW, I live on the Southwest side of Huntington. I highly doubt that I could pull in Detroit at all.

Were you able to get all of those channels without the amp? What kind of amp is it btw? I'm looking for something around 12 dB with low noise and that can receive power from my dish receiver without using a line injector or something.

What kind of amp is it btw?

It's a cheapo Phillips amp I picked up at Wal-Mart. It's rated at 12dB. I did pickup a Radio Shack 26dB one a few days ago but it made it worse. Thank God I had the receipt. :-)

I'm probably going to install a second antenna in the near future to pick up the Indy stations since I think they will come in pretty easily with the Antenna I have on the roof.

Something strange happened Sunday night. All of a sudden 36.02 and 36.03 appeared with the callsign WUPNW (or something along those lines). Did anyone else notice it? It looks like they were rebroadcasting 25.02 out of Indy.

Originally posted by bwohlgemuth
Something strange happened Sunday night. All of a sudden 36.02 and 36.03 appeared with the callsign WUPNW (or something along those lines). Did anyone else notice it? It looks like they were rebroadcasting 25.02 out of Indy.


The signal from WFFT-DT 36, about as powerful as a small appliance bulb, and with their antenna barely off the ground, was blown away by WUPW, analog channel 36 , Toledo, OH. The station transmits with almost 2 million watts from a 1200- foot tower. I've recently been seeing that station here in Indy quite often, and I'm 186 miles from their tower. This could continue to be a problem as long as WFFT-DT continues to broadcast with this low power.

I've never seen WFFT-DT nor WISE-DT 19 here in Indy. I have, however, received WTVG-DT 19, Toledo and WXMI-DT 19, Grand Rapids.

Steve
Indy

Anyone know if WPTA is broadcasting in HD? If not will they be doing it soon? Been reading in the HDTV Programming forum that the picture on MNF has been fantastic so far this year and is coming in dd 5.1 for a lot of people.

This would be a big help in making the purchase of my DTV receiver.

WPTA is scheduled to go live Sep 30. www.antennaweb.org will let you know who is live in your area. Not sure weather they will be HD right away or just standard def digital.

Sometime this morning (around 09:00), I could only get 19 out of Fort Wayne. 36 and 40 were dead in the water.

However, for some reason channels 8, 13, 23, 25, and 45 came in perfectly (something that has never happened in the daytime).

Shortly after 09:30, the magnetosphere must have changed and they all went blank (as they usually do) and 40 and 36 resumed their normal service.

Originally posted by bwohlgemuth
I usually get at least ch 23 (DT32) out of Marion on a nightly basis. In fact, after throwing a 12dB amp on my Silver Sensor, I have no problems getting all the Fort Wayne, Marion, and most of the Indy stations. I find the biggest problem is with elevation when it comes to the Indy channels. Be ready to get a really tall mast if you live in a valley at all or if you have large trees.

I have a yagi antenna on my roof pointed at the ft. wayne towers and am only able to get pbs digital channel and the tri state christian channel. Tried adding a 12db amp and that didn't help any. With the silver sensor antenna do you have to point it towards marion and/or indy to get those stations or do you leave the orientation of it the same?

I'm using a samsung sir ts160 for my tuner. Would be nice if I could get the indy stations by only adding a silver sensor antenna, I've read that some people are even installing them in their attic even though I believe the SS is designed to set on top of your tv.

Not getting the ft. wayne channels isn't much of an issue because I'm not really missing much but it's always nice to have more channels to choose from.

Thanks,

Jason

Anyone know if WPTA still has plans to start broadcasting digital on the 30th? That date is rapidly approaching and nothing has changed on antennaweb in a while.

I don't want to get my hopes set too high but getting some MNF in hd before the seasons over would be great!

The only ft. wayne digital station I am able to receive is PBS, still unable to pull in CBS or FOX, so that probably is an indicator that I won't be receiving wpta if they have a really weak signal.

Originally posted by vereekej
Anyone know if WPTA still has plans to start broadcasting digital on the 30th? That date is rapidly approaching and nothing has changed on antennaweb in a while.

I don't want to get my hopes set too high but getting some MNF in hd before the seasons over would be great!

The only ft. wayne digital station I am able to receive is PBS, still unable to pull in CBS or FOX, so that probably is an indicator that I won't be receiving wpta if they have a really weak signal.


Yesterday I sent an email to the GM of WPTA inquiring about the sign on date of WPTA-DT. So far no reply. Once WPTA-DT 24 signs on, it should blanket the Ft. Wayne area with a great signal. The station's filing with the FCC indicates it will operate with 335 kw. @ 734 feet with their new top-mounted antenna (non-directional).

The folks at WANE (CBS) are still finalizing details with the FCC in switching their DTV channel assignment from 4 to 31. I read another post that their new antenna has been mounted on their tower. Hopefully it won't be much longer for WANE-DT 31 to sign on.

Steve

Just called WPTA and spoke to Jim over there. He just got back from vacation and didn't know what was going on. He didn't seem too interested in asking a simple question on whether it was going to happen or not.

My guess is they won't be broadcasting HD tomorrow, nor will they be in the near future. I'm going to try to grab 25 tonight to watch the Bears play, but my luck lately has been pretty bad in getting a good signal. Should have installed that 2nd antenna two weeks ago....oh well....

Thas sucky. I was looking forward to them broadcasting the Packers Bears in HD. Oh well. I would have bought a OTA receiver if they did. I will still be skipping my last class tonight to watch the game on shity cable. Well hopefully they will be getting with the program and have HD soon. Here's to hoping.
Ryan

What do you know.....as of this morning antennaweb.org is now saying that WPTA-24 is "Under Review" as opposed to going live today.

Called over to the front desk and they told me the soonest they will be transmitting will be end of October...

DAMN! I knew they wouldn't make it on time.

Anybody know what kind of power and signal they'll be broadcasting when they DO go live? I just praying it's worth the wait since WANE and WFFT screwed up so bad.
:mad:

So when are the stations in fort wayne going to start broadcasting their digital signal with greater strength? I am able to get PBS 40 and TBN 12 out of angola only. I live in auburn and all of the analog signals come in perfectly over a pair of bunny ears, but i get nothing on 19 and 36. I know that NBC put up their new antenna the other day (2nd i believe) but haven't turned it on yet. Does anyone know if when they turn it on, it will broadcast digital with a signal similar to pbs? If stations don't get up to speed soon, my stb will be going back.
Ryan

Good news on WANE-DT....

As promised, I am informing you when WANE-DT is going on the air. We are planning for November 1st to be the official date to be broadcasting with digital on channel 31. If you have anymore questions, please feel free to contact me.

Maybe now I can watch a real football game in HD!

I have noticed while searching for sports on my digital cable from Comcast that they have added a few HD channels, HBOHD, SHOHD, ESPNHD, IND1, IND2,DWFWA, DWISE.

Seeing this I immediately called Comcast tonite, but the nice lady on the phone could not order the HD service because of some areas ouside of Fort Wayne do not even have cable internet hooked up yet, so Comcast HD won't go online until Jan 1st 2004.

I'll call again on Monday to talk to somebody locally, to see if I can get on some type of beta program, as I don't want to wait any longer than I have to. Hell, I was ready to take the 20$ installation fee, and another 30$ they was going to charge me for a DVI cable that I do not have.

Also read in the paper today that WISE's new antenna is now broadcasting at full power. Not sure if that means anything for HDTV owners in the area, but it might!

I get wise at about 60% now that they turned on their antenna. I never got it before so it definitly has helped me out. I'll note that i live in auburn and i am using a 30 buck rca antenna

Is WISE broadcasting an HD signal or is it just 480p? Although there isn't that much on WISE that I watch currently there could be more if it is HD. I often find myself watching television programs in HD even if they aren't that good, just like to sit back and enjoy the picture quality.

Having these stations broadcast just a digital signal doesn't help me much because my analog signal looks just fine.

Would test for myself but I sold my Sammy receiver and ordered an hd-300 which hasn't yet arrived.

Thanks for any help.

well WISE is currently upconverting their analog signal and cropping it and broadcasting in 1080i. So it isn't HD but since it is digitally broadcast, it looks much better than what I get over cable. On their site it says that they will be rebroadcasting HD material in HD starting in mid october. But I am the same as you, I will watch PBS for the HD even if it is something i dont care for that much, just to justify my purchase of a 1000 dollar tv. :)

Originally posted by vereekej

Having these stations broadcast just a digital signal doesn't help me much because my analog signal looks just fine.

Thanks for any help.

My analog from WISE actually looks BETTER than the CRAP WISE-DT is transmitting. I can't watch it. No matter how hard I try, I always end up back on analog. The cropping is terrible. Their line doubler, or whatever they use to upconvert, introduces more noise and distortion than I EVER got...even on bad cable. The only HD I receive regularly is PBS's demo loop which I quit watching months ago because I was bored of it.

I'm starving for some real HD content.

Sorry for the rant.

Got bored momentarily today, in between watching the Matrix followed by Matrix Reloaded.

Decided to do a side by side comparison between my analog ota reception and SD D* picture. Used the Red Sox vs. Yankees game as my comparison. The picture from the ota source WFFT was much better than the picture from D*. The most noticable is when graphics are put on the screen. With D* there is some very evident digital artifacts around text (a result of MPEG-2 compression scheme), with ota the graphics were very sharp and clean looking.

It's frustrating that Ft. Wayne is 102 of 206 in dma and we still don't have any ota HD sources (other than the PBS demo loop).

It's nice to keep informed like this and hopefully, WISE will get the HD going soon. Oh yeah, WPTA really could make me happy with some HD MNF!

Jason

Anyone hear any more news about WPTA? It's been 2 weeks since their date that they had originally scheduled and antennaweb.org still lists them as "under review".

Sure would be nice if they could get their act together.

Just looked at WISE's website. They have quite a bit of info posted about their new antenna. Said in the article that they would be passing on the HDTV signal by late Oct. This seems encouraging.

Jason

Sent an e-mail to WPTA asking when they would be broadcasting digitally. This is the response that I received.



A DTV signal is now available on 24.1 (4:3).

We will be operating in HDTV in a few weeks, if all goes well.

Thank you for your patience.

Chris Fedele
WPTA-TV

I haven't been home yet to see if I can actually receive the signal but hopefully they are broadcasting at a similar power to WISE and not WFFT. WISE's signal strength measures very good for my setup.

Lets all cross our fingers and hope we can watch a MNF game sooner than later.

Jason

Dang,
I live up in auburn and with just an indoor antenna, I get wpta at about 75-90 percent. That is much better than what i get wise which is normally about 50-70 percent. So yes i can confirm that they are broadcasting digital and it is a strong signal at that.
Yippie, maybe some MNF in HD soon. Can't wait.

Based on the reception that I am receiving, I believe WPTA is running with at least as much power as WISE. I am getting a solid robust signal on rabbit ears on the north side of Fort Wayne (Wallen Road area). This is considerably better than my reception of WISE and is comparable to the PBS D40 transmission.

Talk about a nice surprise last night, thank you WPTA for finally getting your act together!

It was upconverted 480i to 720p, but the picture was nice and clear.

Originally posted by Assayer
Based on the reception that I am receiving, I believe WPTA is running with at least as much power as WISE. I am getting a solid robust signal on rabbit ears on the north side of Fort Wayne (Wallen Road area). This is considerably better than my reception of WISE and is comparable to the PBS D40 transmission.


According to www.fccinfo.com WPTA-DT 24 is operating with 335kw. @ 224 meters (735 ft.), while WFWA-DT 40 is operating with 90kw. @ 221 meters (725 ft.) Meanwhile, WISE-DT 19 is supposedly operating with only 9.9kw. @ 235 meters (771 ft.).

Ft Wayne's newest DT entry is indeed very robust,with brief glimpses here 112mi south,while all other analog stations,except WANE-15,are extremely snowy under dead-band conditions.

A nice surprise,DTV# 155 logged.

http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBarker/UHFQUADSTACK/

GregB

I am able to receive both WISE and WPTA with good signal strengths. I also don't experience any audio/video dropouts with either channel. Based on the power numbers on the fcc website it appears to me that WISE is broadcasting at a high enough power to satisfy a large area, and WPTA is really putting out a strong signal.

Hopefully now that these two are online and going WANE will be able to meet their date of Nov. 30th. Although I just checked antennaweb.org and they showed WPTA's live date as December 15th? WFFT could get their act together too and raise their antenna up a little higher and boost the power. At least that way we can enjoy some "FOX widescreen."

Hopefully we'll all be able to enjoy some HDTV very soon.

Jason

I just got a HDTV receiver and waiting on the TV. Is anyone, in Huntington, able to get any of the Indy stations? If so I might work on the antenna before I get the TV. Thanks.

Originally posted by vtalon
I just got a HDTV receiver and waiting on the TV. Is anyone, in Huntington, able to get any of the Indy stations? If so I might work on the antenna before I get the TV. Thanks.

Depends on where you live. If you don't live in the Wabash Valley, just get a good mast and a decent preamp and you should be able to pull in anything.

23 out of Marion is easy, that can be done with a decent pair of rabbit ears.

I am just north of Kmart, in Huntington, and yes 23 does come in easy. I am not sure if a larger antenna would get the Indy stations that are broadcasting in UHF. Anyone getting any of the South Bend stations? I am going to move my roof mounted antenna and see this weekend. The amp that is installed is one of the better cheaper ones I have used.

Thanks.

Originally posted by vtalon
I am just north of Kmart, in Huntington

If it's the subdivison I'm thinking of, better watch out for the Neighborhood Code Enforcement bunch. You start playing with the antenna on your roof and they might put one of those pink notes on your door. :rolleyes:

I am unable to receive channel 23 out of Marion, but I am using a directional antenna that is pointed at the Ft. Wayne towers. I don't have a rotor installed but wondering if it might be worth it? I'm sure that if I installed a rotor I could easily pick up this channel. It might be worth it if I could pick up Indy stations as well.

What is channel 23 anyway? UPN? WB?

Thanks for the help,

Jason

UPN 23 is located about 160 degrees from the Fort Wayne towers, so your directional antenna won't see it. What I did was bridge in my Silver Sensor with a 15db amp which brings in 23 without a problem.

Originally posted by bwohlgemuth
If it's the subdivison I'm thinking of, better watch out for the Neighborhood Code Enforcement bunch. You start playing with the antenna on your roof and they might put one of those pink notes on your door. :rolleyes: Perhaps the code enforcers should be introduced to the FCC. There are rules AGAINST prohibiting antennas on private property, and they apply to OTA reception as well as satellite dishes.

Look of the FCC site at fcc.gov for the OTARD rules.

(I tried to post the direct link, but I'm too new.)

/mb/facts/otard.html

JL

Originally posted by justalurker
Perhaps the code enforcers should be introduced to the FCC.

No, I know the FCC code. The subdivison I think the person lives in is absolutely notorious for going overboard on code enforcement.

Actually the FCC may put the local code enforcers in their place:

"The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use; or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal."

States, cities, and even local cooperatives and landlords are barred from making rules that prevent a resident from getting an acceptable signal (within the limits of OTARD).

Not that I'd want to go up against a co-op or 'code enforcer', but the FCC rules might help get around any local attempts at stopping reception.

JL

Originally posted by justalurker
Not that I'd want to go up against a co-op or 'code enforcer', but the FCC rules might help get around any local attempts at stopping reception.

No, the point of my previous post was in the vein of:

"Even with the law on your side, the people in code-enforcement might be stupid enough to put a violation on your door and run it up the flagpole to whatever legal ends it would be. That is, until someone with a clue tells them they don't have a case."

I'm the head of code-enforcement in my subdivison (hey, someone has to do it, might as well be me and not have to worry about getting nasty-grams in the mail). In the two cases where something was out of whack with someone's property, a quick chat usually made everyone happy.

I thought WPTA, 24-1 in Fort Wayne was being broadcast in 720p. My Zenith 520, when in Native mode, shows it to be 1080i. What are others showing? Thanks.

Jim

Originally posted by Sirluckyj
I thought WPTA, 24-1 in Fort Wayne was being broadcast in 720p. My Zenith 520, when in Native mode, shows it to be 1080i. What are others showing? Thanks.

Jim

Jim,

Interesting observation. I have heard other reports of local ABC affiliates broadcasting in 1080i so if they were it wouldn't be that big of a surprise. Currently all they are doing in upconverting 480i, but when they start passing along the network feels we'll have to see what the format is.

I'll check my setup tonight and report back tomorrow.

Jason

I just got this email from the engineer over at WISE 33:

I just installed the gear that will allow HD from NBC. It should work OK but I will not know
until the NBC HD feed becomes active tonight. Currently you can view any prime time NBC
programs that are in the HD format.
The schedule changes depending on shows
You can check here on a daily basis to see what is in HD.
http://www.nbc.com/nbc/header/TV_Schedule/index.html
or here
http://www.titantv.com/ttv/home/HDTVUpdate.aspx

Good luck. Let me know how things look for you.

I'll have to check it out, but it sounds promising.

Just to follow up on my other post, ER and the tonight show looked great last night on WISE and today 31-2 is coming in, it's only the weather radar but that is promising.

Originally posted by ceconl
Just to follow up on my other post, ER and the tonight show looked great last night on WISE and today 31-2 is coming in, it's only the weather radar but that is promising.


Does your reference to 31-2 mean that WANE-DT 31 has signed on? If so, that is promising. If the station is only passing the weather radar, it sounds as though they are still setting up and testing equipment. Thanks.

Yes it looks like WANE has signed on. I'm not getting the radar today, but they are supposed to be live as of November 1 according to another post in this thread.

is 40-1/40-2 and 36-1/36-2 off air for now? i used to get a high signal from 40..but no longer,36 was iffy at best,also shows 36-2 as a "channel" but no audio or video received.

I'm on the south side of Elkhart ...
This past evening I hooked up a small antenna on my roof to replace my attic mount. The attic mount was enough for receiving local analog with limited loss but my DTV tuner didn't want to lock on to all five signals. Since I was on the roof I pointed the antenna at Fort Wayne to see what I could get.

In analog everything was snowy ... but I let my DTV box scan and got a good lock on 24. Very good signal.

Can someone give a quick summary of what is where in Fort Wayne? I've tried to glean from this thread but got lost. Who is running what subchannels.
WANE 15 seems to have a CP for Chan 4 and an App for Chan 31 Which are they using?
WPTA 21 has the good signal I saw on Chan 24.
WISE 33 is apparently up on Chan 19.
WFWA 39 has Chan 40 - are they back yet?
WFFT 55 has Chan 36 - are they back yet?
And looking North ... What is WINM 63 DT 12 Angola transmitting?

Thanks in advance for a summary. I'm trying to decide if it would be worth a bigger antenna to try to pick up a second market.

BTW: The locals in South Bend seem to be using their NTSC channel numbers on digital (Chan 16.2 transmitting on Chan 42). The exception is the PBS station which for some reason is using it's DT channel number 35.1 and 35.2 instead of 34. Does that trend follow in Fort Wayne?

JL

I live on the north side and have been trying to get HD from Fort Wayne also. What type of antenna are you using and what is your azmuth? I sure would apreciate any info you may have. Thanks.

Got my first view of some of WISE's "true" hd signal. Saw the last few minutes of Ed and some of Law and Order. Both looked good, but don't have the "wow" factor that you get from sports, i.e. Sunday night football on ESPN HD. Feels good to be able to get some OTA HD!

Hopefully WPTA will be transmitting hd soon. Would love to start watching some HD MNF, and I have also heard that the movies they show on Sunday's are really good.

MASS,

I'm about 25 miles from Ft. Wayne towers. I'm using a yagi style antenna on a 10' pole mounted on the peak of my roof. I get both WPTA and WISE at nearly full strength. I haven't been able to pick up WANE's signal at all yet. Although they may not be transmitting at full power, they could be testing their signal.

Go to antennaweb.org and you will be able to find out exactly what type of antenna you will need.

Jason

JL -

Here's some info on Fort Wayne...

WANE 15 (STV) -- 31 (DTV)
For now only broadcasting the weather radar on 31-2.

WPTA 21 (STV) -- 24 (DTV)
Broadcasting upconverted 4:3 programming on 24-1.

WISE 33 (STV) -- 19 (DTV)
Just started broadcasting NBC'S HDTV schedule last week on 19-1. Prior to that they were up-converting and cropping 4:3 material of which I hope they stop because it cuts too much information off the screen.

WFWA 39 (STV) -- 40 (DTV)
Broadcasting the national PBS HD demo loop on 40-1 and the local PBS programming on 40-2. When they first went on the air they used their NTSC channel of 39 on the HD side but have since reverted to the ATSC channel. I am currently receiving a high signal strength on 40-1 but the picture is black. 40-2 is ok.

WFFT 55 (STV) -- 36 (DTV)
Broadcasting some EDTV on 36-1 but with such a low signal strength I cannot always receive it.

WINM 63 (STV) -- 12 (DTV)
VHF religious channel which I do not have a VHF antenna to receive.

Living in South Bend for about five years, I would stick with your stations. They have been broadcasting their DTV longer. Fort Wayne is just beginning and none of the stations are broadcasting the program guide in the signal yet.

Tom

TKO,

What type of signal strength are you getting from WANE 31-2? I have been unable to lock into their signal yet. WPTA and WISE both come in at nearly full strength. Having access to the radar at all times could be kinda nice.

Thanks,

Jason

Greetings one and all!

I was introduced to this forum by one of the members. I don't know what his forum name is but his real first name is Caleb.

Let me introduce myself. My name is Matt Kyle and I am the director of engineering here at WISE-TV/DT, 33 & 19-1.

I found it very informative to read the posts not only on this thread but in the rest of the info and reception area.

The Whole HDTV thing is new to all of us (some more than others!) hopefully we can all grow and learn together.
That said I am open to any and all comments, suggestions, reception reports, and constructive criticisms.

We are still feeling our way into this digital era, I don't have all the answers. I don't even know all the questions yet!

We just switched on the true HDTV feeds from NBC.
Any prime time programming that is fed from NBC in HD will be passed through in HD.

I also heard some rumors that the Olympics might have some 5.1 surround content?
We have the encoder to send this out if it becomes available.

I currently have a Samsung SIR-T150 that I use at home with a computer
monitor to access the Ft. Wayne digital signals. I have to say that after
seeing real HD content OTA that I MUST replace my 32 inch analog set with a 16-9 HD display.
(Anybody need snow shoveled for cash?)

So with all that feel free to contact me, I'm usually away from my office but I do eventually
respond to e-mail and phone messages.

It's real busy here with all the new things going on.

Regards

MK

Welcome to the forum MRK. Glad to have you aboard. BTW, out of all the signals in Fort Wayne, I think yours has been the most reliable overall.

Now if we could just do something about the quality of programming. ;-)

Originally posted by TKO
Living in South Bend for about five years, I would stick with your stations. They have been broadcasting their DTV longer. Fort Wayne is just beginning and none of the stations are broadcasting the program guide in the signal yet. Thanks for the summary.

As noted, I'm on the south edge of Elkhart -- I bought a pair of U-75's from Radio Shack when I moved to my house in March. (They are "Red" on AntennaWeb's scale.) I figured I could pull Ft Wayne on a 75mi antenna, which is why I bought two. One for the locals and one for Ft Wayne.

I did an attic mount at first, which worked for Analog with only one local channel in static. All the DTVs are not at full power so I had to move outside to get them. I did manage to pull Fort Wayne's 24.1 - better than 21 Analog. Not bad on a "Red" antenna (and AntennaWeb suggests a "Blue").

I'll probably stick with SB locals for now ... although getting programs an hour later in the summer could be good. :)

BTW: I'm not getting a program guide in SB either. Some stations have "DTV Program" listed, but no accurate guide.

JL

Originally posted by vereekej
TKO,

What type of signal strength are you getting from WANE 31-2? I have been unable to lock into their signal yet. WPTA and WISE both come in at nearly full strength. Having access to the radar at all times could be kinda nice.

Thanks,

Jason

Jason,

I'll bet you will not get WANE in Huntington. They were just granted, and
are operating under an STA with a decent ERP of 40Kw but the antenna height is only 288 feet. The antenna is side mounted on the NE side of tower so you would be shadowed by the tower in Huntington.

And to complicate matters further the type of antenna they are using is not an Omni pattern. Want to guess where you are?

MK

Originally posted by mrk229
I'll bet you will not get WANE in Huntington.

No probs getting the radar signal. Are they broadcasting on 31.01 yet?

Jason,

It looks like MK answered it for you. I live on the northwest side of Fort Wayne and actually use a small indoor Recoton antenna with a booster. The antenna is in my basement and I recieve channel 31-2 at about 75%. I also have a temporary yagi outside with a preamp and receive poor reception because I think it's too low but I don't want to mount anything on my house.

Tom

Matt,

I have one suggestion on the WISE DTV channel. I think it is best to broadcast the 4:3 material in its native form and not zoomed and cropped. Most new HD receivers and TV's will have the ability to zoom so it is best left as a choice to the viewer.

Thanks for checking into this forum.

Tom

Fort Wayne D's lookin good tonight.I like a good challenge.

159 DTV's logged

http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBarker/DXPHOTOS/

Originally posted by TKO
Matt,

I have one suggestion on the WISE DTV channel. I think it is best to broadcast the 4:3 material in its native form and not zoomed and cropped. Most new HD receivers and TV's will have the ability to zoom so it is best left as a choice to the viewer.

Thanks for checking into this forum.

Tom

Tom,

I switched our local content to 4x3 late last week. If you are referring
to upconverting to 1080i I do not have any options but to use the 1080i
signal our encoder is HD only.

It has been my limited experience that most of the receivers do not allow
for any manipulation of a native HD signal IE 1080i. I would be interested
to hear from those of you that can do this.

We currently use two Toshiba rear projector 16x9 monitors in our studio
as part of the news sets. They allow for multiple options for filling the screen. We use that feature to show full screen images from all of our 4x3 material.

When fed the wideband component HD signals from my STB It will not
do any manipulation at all. If we feed it wideband SD it does allow for the
zoom, stretch and crop functions.

Originally posted by bwohlgemuth
No probs getting the radar signal. Are they broadcasting on 31.01 yet?

I'm a bit surprised as the height is far more important than the power
level. Since the leaves are mostly gone perhaps it is helping?

What is your antenna set up?

I'm not sure when the 31-1 signal will be live. My guess is that they do
not have all of the equipment in place to allow for transmission from
Indianapolis.

Some of you may not know that WANE TV's programming except for
local news is originated from Indianapolis via fiber optic lines. Even the
local commercials are fed to Indy and then replayed to air from the
server at the correct times. The main HUB at WISH-TV provides
programming for at least 4 other LIN TV stations.

MK

Hi Matt great to see you took my advice and checked the forum out. I'm sitting here and watching 3rd watch and I'm seeing black bars on the side and the top. What's going on with that. It looked great last week.

Originally posted by mrk229
I'm a bit surprised as the height is far more important than the power
level. Since the leaves are mostly gone perhaps it is helping?

What is your antenna set up?

I live SW of Huntington up on a hill above the Wabash Valley. Up until a few weeks ago, I could easily get 36.01 when they were broadcasting at the pitiful 100W @ 218ft. I can easily get 63.01, but I don't think I'd ever watch it... :D

I have an 8-bay channel master antenna up on the roof on a 6 foot mast with a 20dB amp in line to drive the signal over the crappy RG-59 cable I have in the house. Now I just need to get another antenna up so I can watch the Indy channels as well.

Originally posted by mrk229
I'm a bit surprised as the height is far more important than the power level. Since the leaves are mostly gone perhaps it is helping? A higher receive antenna improves the line of sight. Put it 250ft up and you get much better reception than at 100ft!

BTW: A higher broadcast antenna also improves line of sight. Less power goes further at a higher height. For example, a typical Class A FM is 6kW at 100m. The same range of coverage can be done with 2.75kW at 150m, or 1.55kW at 200m. At 50m it would take 24kW to cover the same range. This can translate into TV as well.

The problem with placing the antenna high is that the lower power can have trouble penetrating buildings and tree cover even close to the antenna. Stations make a choice of having a large coverage area (high antenna) or better penetration (higher power).

JL

Expect to see 31-1 and 31-3 by mid month. I spoke to Engineering supervisor and told me that dt31 is running at an erp of 40 kw. They are going to 1000kw erp by early to mid year 2004. They are waiting for approval from the FCC. Currently the measured signal levels at Dupont Rd. and Tonkle Rd. is as follows. DT-19 is 2,500uv. DT. 24 is 10,000uv. DT 31 is 900 uv. and Dt 12 is 320uv. Dt 40-1 and 40-2 were not on early this morning to measure. Dt 36-1 measures minus 20db. Not good. Best to you all and I am trying to be patient in this slow evolving market.

Originally posted by j.leone
Expect to see 31-1 and 31-3 by mid month. I spoke to Engineering supervisor and told me that dt31 is running at an erp of 40 kw. They are going to 1000kw erp by early to mid year 2004. That's good news. Based on my reception of DT24, I should be able to get DT31 once it is full power. DT36 will be equally good once they get their 1000kW running. (DT19 will be about the same as DT24 once it is full power.)

I'm going to like DTV once it is full power. :)

JL

Originally posted by ceconl
Hi Matt great to see you took my advice and checked the forum out. I'm sitting here and watching 3rd watch and I'm seeing black bars on the side and the top. What's going on with that. It looked great last week.

The NBC HD satellite receiver decided to take a holiday Friday night. Passing all those bits wore it out!
I came in Saturday morning and did a reset on the system and it seems to be OK now. You were seeing the 4x3 upconverted feed.

MK

Originally posted by justalurker

The problem with placing the antenna high is that the lower power can have trouble penetrating buildings and tree cover even close to the antenna. Stations make a choice of having a large coverage area (high antenna) or better penetration (higher power).

JL

Or they choose to do both! WANE TV's analog signal is running at a 2.5 Megawatt ERP. WFWA Analog is right at 1 Megawatt and the rest of us are in the neighborhood of 550 Kilowatts ERP. What is also typically done is that the antennas are designed with downward beam tilt to make sure the power does not go shooting off over the horizon. They use what is termed null fill on antennas that are located close to the desired service area. The Ft. Wayne stations are all located directly in the major population area and should have heavy null fill so those located close to the towers get good signal levels.

The FCC originally licensed DTV stations power levels to replicate the footprint of the analog signals.
In our case they said that we only needed to have an ERP of 50 Kilowatts.

Now being UHF broadcasters where we were used to using higher powers for penetration of buildings to hit the secondary sets with no outdoor antennas most of us paid for independent engineering studies that could allow for increased ERP's. The values that are being throw around here are the results of those studies. Our licensed updated ERP value is 350 KW

WANE DT Original Grant 90Kw Applied for 1000Kw (waiting for approval)
WPTA DT Original Grant ?Kw Applied for 335Kw (Approved)
WISE DT Original Grant 50Kw Applied for 350Kw (Approved)
WFWA DT Original Grant 90Kw
WFFT DT Original Grant ?Kw Applied for 1000Kw (Approved)


The FCC database must have been purged of the original power level
grants? They do not show up for WPTA, WFFT or WISE.
WFWA is running at the original licensed power.

What is interesting and reading these forums seems to prove it out is that the lower power levels do actually work quite well. The higher powers will do wonders for indoor reception or poor antennas.

For review here are the local signals as I know them to be currently transmitting.

WPTA Channel 24DT 335Kw 224.4 Meters
WFWA Channel 40DT 90Kw 221 Meters
WANE Channel 31DT 40Kw 88 Meters
WISE Channel 19DT 9.9Kw 234.9 Meters
WFFT Channel 36DT 0.97Kw 64.4 Meters

MK

Originally posted by mrk229
Or they choose to do both! WANE TV's analog signal is running at a 2.5 Megawatt ERP. WFWA Analog is right at 1 Megawatt and the rest of us are in the neighborhood of 550 Kilowatts ERP. 2.5 Megawatts? That low? :)

Two of the South Bend Analog Stations (16 and 28) are 5 Megawatts, a third is 4790 kW (22), the PBS (34) is 1380kW and LeSea (46) is 1120kW. Most are around 305m to 335m HAAT (34 being lower at 246m).

Fort Wayne's HAATs run 223m to 252m. (HAAT is height above average terrain, for those who don't hang out at the FCC website. Sorry about the metrics, but I've given up converting to feet.)

I'm 55 miles away and can pull WPTA's digital signal (my prediction software says I should get a 22.94dB signal). Your current signal (DT19) is predicted to be 7.64dB -- too low to lock on -- but if you build your CP's 350kW I should get a 22.66dB signal ... which is good enough to watch.

I'm wondering why the PBS stations didn't bother raising their allotments. WFWA staying at 90kW and WNIT at 50kW (currently STA 40kW). I suppose in the long run they will save on electricity. :p

Thanks for the history lesson.

WANE DT Original Grant 90Kw Applied for 1000Kw (waiting for approval) I have WANE originally on DT4. It makes sense for them to want to stay in the UHF market. I wonder if someone could apply for DT4? I'm looking forward to the "next step".

JL

Originally posted by justalurker
2.5 Megawatts? That low? :)

I'm wondering why the PBS stations didn't bother raising their allotments. WFWA staying at 90kW and WNIT at 50kW (currently STA 40kW). I suppose in the long run they will save on electricity. :p

JL

They probably could not get the money/grant for the extra engineering studies that the maximization cost?

As for the power bills that is not a small change prospect. In Indiana roughly 70% of the bill is calculated from the peak demand during the month.

When we installed out IOT transmitter our raw Kilowatt hours dropped by 25% but our bill barely made 5% savings. In California (before the crash) the power companies would provide substantial upfront rebates to broadcasters that installed more energy efficient transmitters.

My estimates have our electrical cost to operate DTV at licensed ERP as pretty close to $3000 per month.

(Some more history)
Our old GE Klystron Transmitter consumed 121Kw to output 30 + 3 Kw.
Ran Class A so it used 121Kw 100% of the time

Our new IOT Transmitter consumes an average 48Kw to output 30 + 3 Kw.
Runs class AB so it's power consumption varies depending on the picture
content. Black or dark pictures consumes the most power and White or light pictures the least.

Quite a difference.

DTV Transmitters operate more like the old Class A tubes in that the bitstream is transmitted at 100% power or better all the time.
If all of the vectors align just right the transmitter has to put out 2 to 3 times more power for a minute amount of time.

DTV power is measured as an average power level and Analog power is measured as a peak power level.

MK

MRK229,

Welcome to the board. It's nice to have the technical point of view for the topics and some "real" answers to some questions.

Based on your comments about transmission power and height of the antenna, I can attest that height of the antenna has the biggest impact for my situation. I can receive all of the stations that at broadcasting from above 200m at nearly full strength, while I cannot receive the others at all.

Also thanks for broadcasting the upconverted material at the OAR of 4:3.

Hopefully we'll get to test out a 5.1 transmission sometime soon.

Thanks again and welcome,

Jason

Has DT24.1 WANE been at lower power the last couple of days. I had a decent signal but now it is lost. Hmmmm ...

JL

I haven't had any problem receiving dt24.1 lately. Just as strong as ever tonight, unfortunately I'm patiently waiting for them to start passing the HD signal. Would really like to watch Threat Matrix tonight in HD.

I will be watching ER tonight though, mostly because it's in HD, I haven't watched that show in years but will give it a look tonight.

It's back again on my receiver... Must have been weather related. I am fringe. :)

JL

Anyone get an update on WANE-DT?

I haven't heard anything. Just added a 12db signal amp though and am now able to receive 31.2. I can now check the radar anytime I like YIPEE!!

Obviously they have the ability to transmit digitally, hopefully when 31.1 is up and running they will be passing the HD signal immediately.

I'm still crossing my fingers and hoping I will see a MNF game before the end of the year.

Jason

As of tonight I'm getting 31.1, 31.2, and 31.3. All at very low signal strength, I'm experiencing audio and video dropouts sporadically, but they are indeed there.

31.1 is upconverted 4x3 material from reg CBS channel, 31.2 has the test channel banner on it, and 31.3 is the weather radar. This is a good sign that better things are to come (hopefully in the form of raising their antenna broadcast height and turning up the power).

Let's all hope we're watching some HD college basketball soon.

MAX HD,

Here's your chance to log an additional two channels!! I think if I had your antenna setup my wife would kill me, but it is a pretty cool deal, I'm definetly jealous.

Jason

I may die if WANE decides to test passing the HD signal tonight for the Victorias Secret fashion show!!

Originally posted by vereekej
I may die if WANE decides to test passing the HD signal tonight for the Victorias Secret fashion show!! Last I heard, it was not going to be in HD at all.

JL

Got a call from one of the engineers at WANE today. Sounds like they are going to be running upconverted 480i for the rest of this week and part of next. They have to install some more gear, but they are hoping for true HD content mid next week.

Also, he was really cryptic about what's going on with 31.02. Sounds like that's going to be another HD channel in the very near future. He couldn't be more specific, but he said something along the lines of another network.

Jason, what type of antenna are you running? If you get really bored, head on over to my house and you can see 31 in all it's glory. :D

Originally posted by bwohlgemuth
Jason, what type of antenna are you running? If you get really bored, head on over to my house and you can see 31 in all it's glory. :D

I'm using an antenna from Radio Shack, it's a UHF/VHF/FM combo antenna, don't need the VHF but I use the FM to get better reception of radio signals. Currently I have a 12db amp that I got from Walmart, I'm considering upgrading to a channel master amp to see if that helps.

Jason

Is in a set-top antenna or a outdoor one? If it's a set-top, take it and dump it in the trash. Then got out and grab a decent UHF antenna and mount it on top of your house. I bet that will get a good signal for you.

It's an outdoor antenna, I have it mounted on top of a 10' pole on the peak of my house. I do live in a low area though, so that makes getting good signals a little difficult at times.

I'm considering getting a UHF only antenna to see if that will help my situation at all.

Although I have no trouble at all receiving signals from WPTA and WISE since they broadcasting from high up the tower and a higher signal strength it would probably be a waste to upgrade just to solve a temporary problem.

Don't know if anyone noticed, but WPTA started broadcasting two channels this evening.

Originally posted by bwohlgemuth
Don't know if anyone noticed, but WPTA started broadcasting two channels this evening. And (amazing!) they are labeled 21-1 and 21-2 in the PSIP information! They have also added names to the channels, WPTA-HD and WPTA-SD respectively.

A step in the right direction ...

JL

I thought I would give a peek to see what FW and SB Stations I could pick up tonight in Kokomo. WPTA was the only station I coud pick up. It needs a little more power to be rock solid. (FYI - Fort Wayne (analog) has been my lifesaver when we get blackouts from Indianapolis.)

Originally posted by Jim_Hunt
I thought I would give a peek to see what FW and SB Stations I could pick up tonight in Kokomo. WPTA was the only station I coud pick up. It needs a little more power to be rock solid. (FYI - Fort Wayne (analog) has been my lifesaver when we get blackouts from Indianapolis.) I believe WPTA (ABC) is at 335kW (that's their CP strength)
WANE "CBS 15" DT31 is only 40kW - expected to be 1000kW next year
WISE "NBC 33" DT19 is at 9kW - expected to be 350kW eventually
WFWA "PBS 39" DT40 is at 90kW per their CP
WFFT "FOX 55" DT 36 is at 970w - expected to be 1000kW eventually
(WINM "63" DT12 is at 16.5kW out of Angola as well - VHF carries further)

I'm hoping they all get up to their full power soon. WPTA did just make the improvement of adding a SD feed, for non-HD viewers or those who prefer to do their own upconvert. I pick up WPTA quite well in Elkhart, on a simple antenna.

JL

Originally posted by bwohlgemuth

Also, he was really cryptic about what's going on with 31.02. Sounds like that's going to be another HD channel in the very near future. He couldn't be more specific, but he said something along the lines of another network.



According to the local rumor mill WANE-TV will be running the UPN network on 31-2.

I almost hope it's not another HD channel, splitting the bitstream for two HD's and a low bit SD could spell trouble for image quality. It could seriously compromise the quality of things like fast motion sports.

Encoders keep getting better all the time but I still see artifacting and blockiness at the higher bitrates. So running two HD signals IMHO would be a compromise at best.

I don't know if anybody on the list has equipment that will tell you the bitrates that stations are using for the individual services they are broadcasting? I would be curious to know how they are dividing the bitstream.

MK

Originally posted by mrk229
According to the local rumor mill WANE-TV will be running the UPN network on 31-2. That would have been my guess, especially since WSBT 22 CBS in South Bend does the same.

The 22.2 UPN feed in South Bend is SD, and according to posts in the Grand Rapids thread they will not be airing UPN programs in HD. (The station said they may in the future record UPN HD programs and play them back overnight or off hours on 22.1, but that was just a suggestion not a solid plan.)

IIRC CBS has ownership in UPN's national feed, so it would make sense.

As far as quality, 22.1 and 22.2 (DT30) are two of the best signals in the South Bend market. 16.1 and 16.2 (DT42) is also attempting one HD and one SD and fails at both. I suspect that WANE will follow WSBT's example and do very well.

JL

I think maybe you misunderstood my post. What I meant was that it would be a serious compromise to try and air two HD signals at the same time.

Lets work in round numbers and say that the bitstream available for video is 18.5 Megabits per second (Mbs). For example we currently run our HD signal at 13.5 Mbs that leaves 5 Mbs which could be used for an SD video feed. SD 480i at 5Mbs is not bad but could be better.

Just for reference all of our commercial content is encoded at 480i, 8Mbs for storage. The 8Mbs rate is almost transparent to all but intense scrutiny.

If you try and slice the pie for two HD feeds you have 9.25Mbs for each service. While it will work you will more than likely have problems with any type of quick cuts or fast motion like sports. Now if you take a little chunk out for an low bit SD service you create more problems.

As I said encoders get better every day. WNDU being an early adopter probably has a first, or early second generation encoder. Some of the first encoders filled a six foot rack and cost huge money. The encoder we use is 3 1/2 inches tall. The encoder has a tremendous effect on the quality of the signal. It takes a lot of number crunching to encode video in real time.

Another option is to use variable bit rate coding with statistical multiplexing. This lets the content drive the required bit rate up to a preset level. So if one of the channels needs more bits and the multiplexer has some available it can be used and shared between streams.

Another technique is to do bit packing. This is typically used to send a computer type of data stream. The multiplexer looks for available bits and fills all of the empty slots in the data stream. This is how they do high speed data transfers for Internet service.

MK

Originally posted by mrk229
I think maybe you misunderstood my post. What I meant was that it would be a serious compromise to try and air two HD signals at the same time. I agree. If WANE follows WSBT's lead, UPN Fort Wayne will not be a HD feed (the point of my post).

According to WNDU's website they just got a new encoder from California. Perhaps they are not using it yet. Prior to October they were up with HD. They took most of October and November off ... just a SD feed (a jumpy one at times). Now they have a poor HD and a poor SD. Sad really. At least their "SD Only" month had closed captioning working. If they want to stay the "Market Leader", they need to get the signals (both) cleaned up.

JL

Last night during "Average Joe" the audio was horrible. I don't know if it was the Dolby 5.1 screwing up but I could barely hear the people talking. It sounded like it was clipping.

Comcast Cable Allen County is now offering an HD service as part of the digital cable offerings.
The channel selection is currently limited but I expect it will expand.

The current lineup is:

ESPN HD
INHD1
INHD2
HBO HD
Showtime HD
WISE HD
WFWA HD
PBS HD Demo

You have to subscribe to the digital cable package and then you can add the HD service on top.
Current introductory pricing is $5.95 for first three months and then it is expected to cost $10-12 a month
on top of the digital package price.

If interested you will have to call for further information,
as of 11/25 nothing is on the web site.

One of the guys here just got hooked up.

This is not an endorsement or advertisement for Comcast, just an informational note!

MK


Last edited by mrk229 on Today at 08:52 AM

Ick...Comcast :mad:

Sorry, but I'll wait for the HDTivo to come out in about three months with DirecTV and just watch OTA for the long haul.

Anyone hear any updates about when WPTA will start passing an HD signal?

Did notice on the news this morning that they will be airing the HS state finals for football on 21-2. This seems like a great way of taking advantage of having the ability to broadcast two events simultaneously. Also today they started airing their weather radar on 21.2 as well. They must have liked that WANE was doing this and thought they would follow suit.

This is an exciting time for those of us who have waited so long to get some OTA HD.

Jason

Originally posted by vereekej
Did notice on the news this morning that they will be airing the HS state finals for football on 21-2. This seems like a great way of taking advantage of having the ability to broadcast two events simultaneously.
Agreed. DTV is more than HD.
Also today they started airing their weather radar on 21.2 as well. Replacing their SD station feed. Not a big loss, and that radar should take away less from the potential HD bandwidth.

It's nice to have that view. It shows me the whole path from my house to my inlaws for Thansgiving. If you see a fast moving blip on SR15 tomorrow night, it isn't Santa a month early!

JL

Originally posted by justalurker
And (amazing!) they are labeled 21-1 and 21-2 in the PSIP information! They have also added names to the channels, WPTA-HD and WPTA-SD respectively.

A step in the right direction ...

JL

What are you using for OTA reception? I'm using an hd-300, the channels are remapped properly to 21-1, 21-2. However there are still no channel names listed.

WISE and WFFT have there channels labeled and guide info as well, although I an unable to pick up WFFT's signal at all.

Originally posted by vereekej
What are you using for OTA reception?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/profile.gif (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=7427135)
SIR-150 fed by two RS U-75 OTA antennas (not pointed in the same direction)

I still have to shell out for an amp or a remote switch some day. I can only get DT24 at night under good conditions.

JL

Just thought that I would mention that WPTA announced last night on their news that they would now be showing programs in HD. I didn't have a chance to check it out but I will tonight. Monday Night Football in HD here we come.

That is GREAT news, unfortunately I enjoy watching Threat Matrix which is HD and for some reason WPTA doesn't carry this show anymore. I can't wait to check out the MNF. Not sure that I've ever been excited about the day being Monday though, usually Monday has a bad connotation with it. This is also good news because WPTA broadcasts at the highest signal strength in the Ft. Wayne market, people should be able to lock onto this signal easily.

Also everyone may want to note that several have mentioned on this forum that the movies ABC shows on Sundays in HD have had some excellent PQ lately. These are probably worth checking out, maybe WPTA will even be pass the DD 5.1 signal through as well.

Jason

Just did a search and found that WPTA was going to show Threat Matrix on both Monday and Thursday next week. Fortunately no Billy Graham.

The MNF game could be good too. Eagles vs. Dolphins

WPTA was smart for mentioning the fact that they were now broadcasting an HD signal on their evening news. I had about 3 people call me at work today to let me know this.

Originally posted by vereekej
Not sure that I've ever been excited about the day being Monday though, usually Monday has a bad connotation with it. I guess that's what makes MNF special ... after the worst day of the week one can sample a little more weekend. :)

WPTA is back to radar on 21-2 WITH A PROGRAM TITLE! "21 Alive Weather Radar" (First one I've seen, other than "DTV Program".) Most of the time I've seen 21-2 since Thanksgiving it was the same as 21-1, but in SD.

JL

Just wanted to chime in and say how much I have been enjoying having two options for OTA HD content. Thanks to WPTA and WISE for implementing this new technology.

Does anyone know when WANE -DT will be up and running & passing through the HD signal?

I was watching CSI Miami the other night & it should have been in HD.

Hopefully for the Super bowl?

Thanks

Amen to that. I am really looking forward to watching the NFL playoffs in HD.

I fired off an e-mail to WANE-DT technical department the other day & received this response.

"Matt,

Our plan is to have "true" high def up and running the first week of
January. With everything, the holidays and a couple equipment
difficulties have held us back from beginning True HD. So, yes, we
should have things going by Super Bowl.

Mark Johnson
WANE-TV/DT"

I thought everyone would be interested in this information!

Thanks for the update!

The superbowl would be good, the playoffs would be great!

They also need to boost their signal strength so that I can lock on to their signal on a more consistent basis.

Heres to an HD Superbowl!!

Jason

Originally posted by vereekej
Thanks for the update!

The superbowl would be good, the playoffs would be great!

They also need to boost their signal strength so that I can lock on to their signal on a more consistent basis.

Heres to an HD Superbowl!!

Jason

As a person close to the situation, it is not all that easy given the conditions to boost the signal strength.

I have not had any problems getting WANE's signal at my location on the East side of Huntington city...

Can anyone smack 55 around and get them to start broadcasting with some power? I'm getting tired of being able to watch Fox only when Saturn is aligned with Mars....

And yes, my 8-Bay pulls in WANE just fine, along with everyone else. :-)

I am able to lock onto WANE's signal most of the time. Unfortunately I pretty much live in a hole and my antenna height isn't high enough to compensate. Yeah I know buy a taller mast for the antenna.

I doubt if FOX will turn up their power until they have any HD content. The only thing your missing is the NFL in 480p widescreen, which I believe WFFT only carried like two of those games anyways.

Originally posted by vereekej
I am able to lock onto WANE's signal most of the time. Unfortunately I pretty much live in a hole and my antenna height isn't high enough to compensate. Yeah I know buy a taller mast for the antenna.

I doubt if FOX will turn up their power until they have any HD content. The only thing your missing is the NFL in 480p widescreen, which I believe WFFT only carried like two of those games anyways.

With regards to the WANE signal, there was a problem a week and a half ago with the signal (video digitizing, audio stayed on.) Was that the problem you were having, or just plain not getting a signal?

Signal strength just isn't that strong in general, no specific situation. I believe that WANE's antenna is not very high up on the tower thus combined with my location making it difficult for me to lock on.

WISE isn't running at that high of a transmission power but their antenna is at the top of the tower and I receive their signal at nearly full strength. WPTA's signal being at both high power and high altitude can be received from 60+ miles fairly easily.

Not really that big of a deal, I'm sure there are only a few hundred people in the FW market that can even receive digital signals anyways.

You are correct with regards to antenna height. The antenna is sitting at roughly 275 feet or so.

I think my antenna must work better covered with ice! Today I am receiving WANE's digital signal at the highest signal strength I have ever gotten from them. Good thing, because the D* satellite dish doesn't work too well when covered with ice/snow. Unfortunately the Colts game isn't in HD, maybe next weekend.

No kidding, watching the playoffs this weekend and the Sugar Bowl last night in HD was incredible. WANE really needs to get off their collective asses and start broadcasting in HD ASAP.

WANE apparently has started broadcasting in HD!! As of right now I am getting a great picture, unfortunately the sound is nothing but a loud pulsating static sound.

Looks like good news for the Colts vs. KC game this weekend.

Hopefully the ice on my antenna won't melt before next weekend so I can keep my signal strength nice and strong.

Jason

Or I need to invest in a better signal amp.

I am also receiving CBS tongiht in HD!! WHOOO HOOOO!!

However, no sound at all... :-(

Did you notice WANE was using 31-02? Is this the HD feed? The broken sound was on 31-01 I believe. I go to bed early- 8:30 or 9:00 and when I saw this change it was not a HD broadcast (4x3). HOPEFULLY all the bugs are worked out by Sunday!

WANE is testing 31-2 (SD). That is why you see the same programming as 31-1. The HD is on 31-1. During the day, programming is upconverted to 1080i and CBS primetime will be transmitted in true high definition, 1080i (when the program is available in high definition).

Channel 31-2 will not be showing the same programming for very long. It is only a test. We can look for new programming beginning on that channel in the next couple months.

Monday night, WANE was working on some audio issues with the HD feed from CBS. All the bugs were worked out with the audio. Last night marked the beginning of "True" CBS HD on 31-1

What's the latest rumour as to what will be residing on 31.2?

I Unfortunately cannot answer your request due to Possible legal actioN. :D

WANE is working toward an agreement with a program provider for channel 31-2 to begin in the next couple months. One of the candidates is UPN. A large amount of syndicated programs would also be used on this channel to fill the rest of the time.

Is WANE intending on increasing the height and/or power or their transmission antenna anytime soon? I am able to get a good signal at the current time, but some leaves on the trees in the spring will probably nix that.

UPN I believe does have some HD content, I'm assuming WANE will just carry the SD signal? The more bandwidth available for the HD signal the better, not many early HD adopters are in to compressed HD signals.

BTW -- I can't wait until Sunday to watch the Colts vs KC game in HD!!

(I am really a Lions fan but will root for the Colts once the Lions are eliminated, which lately has been around the 3rd game of the pre-season)

WANE will be doing a major digital upgrade this year. WANE will install a high power antenna just below the top of the tower. Also, WANE will maximize the digital transmitter which will mean 1,000kw of ERP.

UPN does have a couple programs available in HD. No decision has been made about those programs. It is virtually impossible to have two HD streams with the limited bandwidth.

South Bend's CBS WSBT 22.2 (DT30) is "UPN Michiana". I would not be suprised if your CBS also had UPN as a subchannel (as noted earlier in this thread).

WSBT has said that NO UPN programs will be in HD during prime hours, but they are considering recording programs and airing UPN's HD on the main channel.

BTW: During the daytime UPN Michiana airs a lot of syndicated reruns. It isn't a bad selection. All the local cable systems have picked up 22.2 and are running it as an analog channel on their systems.

JL

Anyone notice the horrible pixelization on 31.01 today? I mean the game was wonderful, but the faster motion shots were absolutely horrible.

It was noticed during last night's game. It was one of the things that there was a lot of interest in, due to the fact it was the first sports event broadcast on 31.01 with 31.02 on the simulcast.

Didn't get the chance to watch today's game, didn't have to arrive at work until 3:30, and about that time is when the feed from CBS went whacky, so by the time that was fixed (a problem at the remote site), I had forgotten to check out the feed.

It is something that WANE is aware of.

The pixelation was HORRIBLE!!

Probably the worst HD transmission I've ever seen. Even the wife noticed the heavy pixelation during fast moving scenes.

The problem is simple, WANE didn't allocate enough bandwidth for 31.1. Let's give them a chance though, afterall this was the first weekend for HD football on WANE. The bandwidth that they have been using has been sufficient for sitcoms and the like, it's just that 1080i takes A LOT of bandwidth for fast moving scenes and they haven't had anything to test with, ala this weekends football games. Hopefully the engineer at WANE has an HD setup at home and watched the game, he/she would not be satisified with the PQ. However let's hope they get this fixed soon, hopefully for next weekends Colts game, and definetly for the Superbowl.

Hate to say this, but they really should decrease the bandwidth on the radar station if they can. It's pretty much a static image (except for the white line rolling around) and the audio sounds like it's over a telephone.

I'm extremely happy to have the HD signal, but I know there are tons more people out there who have no clue about these boards and are just bitching in silence :-)

Originally posted by vereekej
The pixelation was HORRIBLE!!

Probably the worst HD transmission I've ever seen. Even the wife noticed the heavy pixelation during fast moving scenes.

The problem is simple, WANE didn't allocate enough bandwidth for 31.1. Let's give them a chance though, afterall this was the first weekend for HD football on WANE. The bandwidth that they have been using has been sufficient for sitcoms and the like, it's just that 1080i takes A LOT of bandwidth for fast moving scenes and they haven't had anything to test with, ala this weekends football games. Hopefully the engineer at WANE has an HD setup at home and watched the game, he/she would not be satisified with the PQ. However let's hope they get this fixed soon, hopefully for next weekends Colts game, and definetly for the Superbowl.

There is no such thing as a simple problem. The problems that were encountered are not exclusive to WANE. Trying to shove 3 streams into the limited bandwidth is not an easy task.

The problem is being worked on. We all want it ready Super Bowl Sunday.

How about just getting rid of the weather radar all together. It can't be a revenue source for the station. (i.e. no advertisements) Or just turn it off during HD programming that is bandwidth intensive.

Just out of curiousity, what bitrate was used over the weekend for the football games? I'm guessing it was around 10-11 mbs. Good 1080i needs about 16, which would only leave about 3 for the other two channels. Good enough for radar, not for UPN.

Like I already said, it's early for WANE in the HD game. Take my comments as constructive criticism and lets all enjoy the Colts game this weekend.

Jason

Not sure what the official bitrate was set at over the weekend. I do know that adjustments were made for on the allotments yesterday. Like it has been pointed out before, it is hard to test without having a game being broadcast on HD (CBS makes it extremely difficult to test everything, the HD bird is dark most of the time, which was the main reason the first night the audio was being adjusted on air.)

As far as the weather station goes, you'd be surprised on how many people like having that on 31-03. 31-03 is used in many different capacities, making it impossible to drop at this stage of the game.

We welcome constructive criticism. We all want it to work as advertised. Hopefully the changes that have been made will make the Colts game this weekend more enjoyable to all.

jckrac, we really apprecitate you being on the boards. You obviously have some significant insight to what is going on inside of WANE. We would obviously like to see you guys be successful, especially with the Colts doing so well and the possibility that they will be playing two Sundays from now.

While I like the radar on 31.03, I think most people that have DTV right now are going to be more interested in the show on 31.01 Sunday compared to those who are wondering if it's raining in Ligonier. I don't know if it's possible to shut down the 31.03 during the game and restart it after it's over....that's the only thing I can see opening up more bandwidth.

Originally posted by bwohlgemuth
jckrac, we really appreciates you being on the boards. You obviously have some significant insight to what is going on inside of WANE. We would obviously like to see you guys be successful, especially with the Colts doing so well and the possibility that they will be playing two Sundays from now.

While I like the radar on 31.03, I think most people that have DTV right now are going to be more interested in the show on 31.01 Sunday compared to those who are wondering if it's raining in Ligonier. I don't know if it's possible to shut down the 31.03 during the game and restart it after it's over....that's the only thing I can see opening up more bandwidth.

Thanks for the kind words. All of this stuff is brand new to us all. I work with a fine bunch of gentleman that are working very hard to get this right. These folks know their stuff and committed to getting it right. (And somebody else was commenting that if the chief engineer was watching the game Sunday: he was, and still is, busting his rear to get it right.)

I believe the quality will improve Sunday, but unfortunately, we won't know until 3 PM Sunday.

As far as 31-03 goes, it requires some outside of the box thinking. I agree with you that 99% of HD viewers are more concerned with 31-01 than the radar. But 31-03 is not used exclusively for HD. That is why you'll probably not see it dropped.

Stay tuned, though. It is being worked on, and we do have some tricks planned for the Super Bowl.

jckrac,

Thanks for keeping us updated. Hopefully things will get worked out without compromising the stations goals for the use of 31.2 and 31.3.

Thanks again,

Jason

Has anyone been able to pick up a digital signal from WFFT 55 lately?

I used to be able to pick up a signal at 36.1 with about a 50% signal strength, compared to 95-100% for the other Fort Wayne DTV stations, but nothing recently.

Just curious if anyone else can receive WFFT's DTV signal.

No, I only get 36.01 when the moon is full and Mars is in the house of Zanzibar.... :-)

Anyone notice how horrible the sound has been on 40.01 lately. A couple days ago the sound was off by about two seconds compared to the picture.

BTW, Stellar job tonight for you guys at WANE. Even though there was nothing you guys could have done about the final outcome, the game was immensely better than last Sunday.

As far as the digital technical aspect from WANE, we consider yesterday's telecast to be pretty much perfect from the local end. CBS had some minor problems, but everything looked beautiful. Note to all you audio fanatics, yesterday's game aired in Dolby 5.1. So, if you had a Dolby digital receiver to listen to the audio, you would have experienced awesome sound.

The game itself was disappointing!! :(

Hey mkj, can you ask CBS to make sure they are broadcasting 100% in Hi-Def? You could really tell when they went over to a 480i camera (like on the sidelines). :-)

The push is to obviously switch everything over to high definition, such as cameras and programs. It really does take time and lots of capital to make the complete switch. So, as time goes on, more and more will be available in high definition. Eventually all graphics and cameras used by the network will be HD.

To prove my point, tomorrow night will be the first time ever that the President's State of the Union address will be available in HD from the networks. WANE will carry it in HD.

The only thing that annoyed me during the whole game (and those of us here that were watching the game were wondering the same thing) was why the director kept punching to the camera that was ALWAYS fogged over.

Other than that, it was a joy to watch. Now if we can get Dolby surround sound theater into where we were "monitoring" the game, we'd be set. Too bad the Super Bowl means nothing to me anymore!

The dolby 5.1 mix was a pleasant surprise. Having the sounds of the fans coming out of the surround channels gave a really good immersive effect. The problem we had with pixelation for the last games seems to be fixed. There still was some slight pixelation in fast action shots, but that is a problem inherent to 1080i.

Can't wait for the Superbowl!! The last hd football game of the year :(

jckrac,

The camera that had been fogged over was very annoying. Don't understand why they couldn't just wipe off the lens with a towel or something, I would hope that the fogging of the lens wasn't an internal problem in the camera.

Doubtful it was an internal problem with the camera. We've had a similar problem with the mast cam on one of the live trucks. As far as continuing to take that shot, probably just a force of habit. Every director I've ever seen falls into that trap once in a while. But you'd think after doing it 6-7 times, he or she would stop.

What are the feelings on program guides provided by the stations as part of digital?

Is the WANE-DT programming guide showing up properly on your receivers (if your receiver is equipped with the option)?

The program guides are great. I believe however that since my receiver is also a Directv sat receiver as well that it gets the program information from the satellite signal. i.e. I get the program guide info for WFFT, which I am unable to receive.

I don't think that WANE is broadcasting their programming guide as of yet, at least I'm not receiving it. When they do begin to broadcast their program guide I would anticipate that they will also remap their channels to 15.1, 15.2, 15.3 since many people refer to WANE as simply channel 15.

Both WPTA and WISE are remapping their channels to correspond with their NTSC channel numbers.

WANE is currently broadcasting a program guide. We have at this time decided not to re-map ourselves to channel 15 for many reasons. But a program guide is being transmitted. Unfortunately, the DirecTV receivers with HD get program information from DirecTV, and not the PSIP of the broadcaster.

The last couple days, I have noticed a problem with the guide and am working with the manufacturer of the equipment for a resolution to the problem.

WANE-DT is now on Comcast. I do know that a deal was worked out late today to allow Comcast to carry WANE-DT. Now Comcast HD customers can see the Super Bowl in HD.

That's great for the Comcast customers. Now if only WANE would put out a strong enough signal that I could get a picture 10 miles from the towers. I get ABC and NBC fine and I get decent analog from WANE, but I only see HD WANE once in a great while. I so mad that I'm going to miss the Super Bowl in HD.

Mark Maple,

I can receive WANE pretty regularly now (I've watched the two HD Colt's games with no dropouts) with a directional outdoor antenna and a 12 db amp, about a $100 setup. I'm listed on antennaweb as 22 miles from the towers. Granted WANE's signal strength is the weakest of them all (not including WFFT's pathetic signal) but I can get it, at least until spring when all the trees get leaves again?

However if you don't have an outdoor antenna it may be difficult. And I wouldn't suggest going outside to install one today.

I will be watching Sunday's game in glorious HD!

BTW-- CBS HD is now available on D*, but good luck getting the waiver. FOX EDTV will be added soon as well, but once again good luck.

I have an 8 bow-tie roof-top antenna and a roof-top channelmaster amp. I do have trees behind me. Like I said, I get NBC and ABC in fine. I may get desperate Sunday and try to scale the roof, but they sounds like a bad idea this time of year. Maybe I will get lucky and Sunday will be the one day of the week that I get a strong enough signal, but I doubt it.

Also, has anyone been receiving ABC without sound? I tuned in a few times over the last week and haven't been getting any sound. I haven't checked my signal strength this week, but it had been around 77.

I live 10 miles from WANE and I can pick up the station perfectly. I have a 4 bow antenna in the attic and a simple channel master amp. Nothing expensive. I pick up all the channels except 36. I would definitely check out your antenna. The signal is getting to you and much further. WANE also has receivers sitting 40 miles away watching 31-3 and they pick us up very well.

Well I braved the roof this morning and played with the antenna. The last time that I was up there I didn't have anyone checking signal strength and WANE-HD wasn't on the air. Today, I actually hit a signal strength of 100 for WANE but I had to adjust from that because our analog reception was unacceptable for our bedroom TV. Now I am getting a fairly consistent 77-93 signal strength. Just in the last couple of minutes though it drops to 0 once in a while. Hopefully the Super Bowl will come in strong tonight.

I find it interesting that my CBS signal strength bounces around so much. My NBC signal is at 77 and never seems to change. My ABC signal is at 100 and never seems to change. And of course my FOX signal is a consistent 0!

Anyone having trouble with sound on ABC (21-1)? My signal strength is 100 but I am getting no sound. I do get sound on 21-2.

Fortunately WANE-DT has been on the air all the time since October, 2003. It sound like you have some antenna issues still. We have been monitoring the transmission from many areas in and around the city and have been very happy with the quality. The Super Bowl will look awesome today in 1080i. I will be making sure of that.

As far as WPTA-DT, I pick them up very well and the audio is always good.

Hopefully everyone figured out what is going on with 31-2. If you haven't, look at the channel.

And for those of you with surround sound, enjoy the Dolby 5.1 audio. The switch was flipped at 2 this afternoon.

Gotta love the 5.1 audio!!

I haven't been getting audio on 21-1 either. I haven't for a few weeks now and I'm not sure what is going on.

So what ATSC tuners are you all using? I've had my HD set for about 6 months and am getting ansy and want to watch some true HD, especially now that the local channels are HD. Also, how happy are you with your tuner?
Thanks,
Ryan

Caleb, I think we have the same HD receiver, Samsung SIR TS-160. I haven't received audio on 21-1 for a few weeks either. 21-2 audio comes in fine. I don't suppose we have any engineers from WPTA looking in on this thread.

I'm using the Sony sat hd-300. It's been the best tuner that I've had. I had the Sammy 160 but it only lasted 3 weeks and locked up daily. The Sony has only locked up about 4 times since November which can easily be remedied by hitting the reset button on the front of the receiver. If you look in the HDTV hardware forum I think you will see that the Sony/LG stb's are generally the most popular, but there are quite a few people that have Sammys and Hughes too.

Having the ability to receive D* HD programming and ATSC is what sold me on this receiver. The downside is the price $699 :( a little salty considering I already had to spend 2k on a television. But for me and the wife HD football makes it all worth while.

Jason

Vereekej:

Seeing that football is over, are you a college basketball fan as well? I don't think we have broadcasted a basketball game yet, so I am looking forward to it.
The sound here was awesome for the Super Bowl, and we were not even listening through anything other than the tv.

Yes, I do watch some college basketball. I've been able to watch a few games on ESPN-HD and they were great. HDNET also will carry college b-ball games from time to time. ESPN will be carrying the big ten tourney in HD and I'm looking forward to that.

The 5.1 sound for football is great, the surrounds don't get a whole lot of action but provide some great ambient sound that gives you the feeling of being at the game.

I'm pretty much addicted to HD, SD just can't hold a candle to it.

Anyone know when WPTA will be able to pass 5.1 audio?

The HD movies they show are great but could be even better with the 5.1 sound.

I just wanted to check something with the rest of you guys. I have noticed lately that NBC (WISE)'s HD broadcast's have had sidebars on them. I just noticed it last night on ER. I'm going to check it out more tonight, but wanted to see if you were all seeing that also or if it looks like it might be my samsung reciever. I talked to MarkMaple, since he has the same receiver and he is seeing the same thing. The picture still looks good, but I'm just seeing the sidebars, I don't see them on the news and local commericial feeds though, so I'm confused. The WPTA issue that we were having with the audio not coming through appears to be a software compatibility issue that they are going to try to resolve. Thanks for any info you guys have.

ceconl, I called Samsung tonight. They indicate that the problem lies on the WPTA side. Hopefully the engineer that you exchanged emails with will find out something.

I have had a few problems with audio on WPTA (as in no audio) but have been able to remedy the problem by just changing to another channel and then back again. I'm using the sony hd-300.

As for the problem with ER on WISE read this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=362765

Should answer your questions.

I just bought a SIR-T351 and was enjoying the Scorpion King in HD as well as the CBS feeds. I however didn't get anything on NBC in HD tongiht. Las Vegas and Jay Leno looked like upconverted SD to me. Did everyone experience this? The last time I had an HD tuner was in the fall but had to sell it becuase i needed the cash. Back then the only HD station was PBS; it is a refresher to watch normal content in HD. I was really disappointed that the Jay Leno show wasn't in HD, as that is one of my favorite shows. Also, do you know if Conan will go HD soon?

Thanks,
Ryan

Ryan,

Leno is typically in hd, not sure why it wasn't. Haven't heard when Conan will be going hd, Letterman still isn't hd either.

NBC on national level has had difficulty with some of their hd lately, not sure if this was the problem or not. Also, typically the local station (WISE) would have to "flip a switch" to allow the hd feed to be transmitted through. Only way to know if this was the problem is to find someone else who can receive NBC in a different market to see if they are getting an hd feed.

The mummy returns was really nice last night, unfortunately WPTA doesn't pass a 5.1 signal yet, and that is a great movie for 5.1 surround. Lets hope they can start soon.

I noticed that the movie wasn't in 5.1. That would have been awesome if it was. Shortly after I posted I noticed a thread in the Programing forum and no one in the country had Las Vegas in HD. I guess it had something to do with Van Damme not wanting it in HD? Oh well. While I'm here, whats the status on Fox broadcasting at a higer power? and passing along their EDTV feeds?

Thanks,
Ryan

PS. Nice sig Jason

I don't know for sure when fox will broadcast at a higher power but my best guess would not be until this fall. The only reason that I say that is fox is supposed to start having true hd broadcasts available to local affiliates some time this fall, thus giving them a good reason to raise up the antenna and turn up the power.

Just sent an e-mail to WPTA asking for the timeline of them passing a 5.1 audio signal. I'm really looking forward to them getting this going as it can really enhance the great picture we have been getting with all of the hd movies lately.

I'll post any information that I may get.

What the heck, I was watching Jay Leno in HD tonight but after a commercial break, it was the SD feed. Is that a problem at Wise or is the mix up at the NBC head office?

This is the response I received about WPTA transmitting the 5.1 dolby digital audio signal.


Hello Mr. Vereeke,

Thank you for taking time to Email us regarding WPTA's plans to
broadcast
Dolby Digital 5.1 audio on our HD channel. I agree with you whole
heartily.
Not only are the movies great to watch...the sporting events such as
Monday
Night Football are also awesome with this feature! WPTA-TV is planning
on
installing the Dolby Digital encoding equipment necessary to broadcast
this
portion of the signal however as of this writing we have no firm date
in
place. Thank you for your interest and please stay tuned!!

Best regards,

Bret Angel
Chief Engineer
WPTA-TV


Doesn't sound like they plan on doing this anytime in the near future. I would imagine as soon as more people get on the hd bandwagon that they may get more requests to do so and it could speed up the process. I can't imagine the price of the encoding equipment is chump change, so I can't really blame them for holding out.

Jason

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
What the heck, I was watching Jay Leno in HD tonight but after a commercial break, it was the SD feed. Is that a problem at Wise or is the mix up at the NBC head office?


Usually a scenario like that is at fault of the local affiliate. The show looks really good in hd too, just wish I could stay awake long enough to watch it.

I have been watching PBS HD and noticed that the audio was not in sync with the sound. I emailed wpta and they replied that they had a software update to fix it. Tonight, it was right on, but I have another question. When watching the PBS HD thread, I noticed that there are small crakling noises every so often. I am not sure if it is my receiver or just the channel. That is the only channel that has 5.1 sound so I cannot test that on another channel. Also on that PBS feed, when in 5.1, there is only sound out of the front 2 speakers. Should there be center and surround channels?

Well scratch that PBS is back in sync. I just changed over to it and it is out of sync again. How hard could it be to have the audio and video line up?

It's been like that for months...it got to the point where I just tell my kids to pretend we are watching foreign films with bad overdubs. :D

IIRC, we have a WISE employee on this forum and would like to thank you for broadcasting the local stuff with the black bars on the side instead of streched. It was bad cuz that was the only channel that was like that and if i went from NBC to ABC or CBS, I'd have to change the aspect of the STB. Also before when the screen was streched on local stuff, 19 had a very greenish tint to it, but now it seems fine.

Another thing, (sorry for complaing so much about wise), but the other night I was watching Jay Leno in HD, but after the first commercial break, the SD feed of Jay was on inplace of the HD. That happened on Tues and I noticed it as well on Thurs. The same place, right after the first commercial break. I email wise last night but havent heard back.

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
I have been watching PBS HD and noticed that the audio was not in sync with the sound. I emailed wpta and they replied that they had a software update to fix it. Tonight, it was right on, but I have another question. When watching the PBS HD thread, I noticed that there are small crakling noises every so often. I am not sure if it is my receiver or just the channel. That is the only channel that has 5.1 sound so I cannot test that on another channel. Also on that PBS feed, when in 5.1, there is only sound out of the front 2 speakers. Should there be center and surround channels?

PBS does broadcast in Dolby Digital but a lot of the content is only dd 2.0, which is just sending information to the front L/R speakers. WANE can pass dd 5.1, but only for live events such as the superbowl.

Just a reminder that WISE will be giving us a little HD treat today. Daytona 500 coverage in HD followed by Shrek.

I believe this is the first Nascar race broadcast in HD (other than the Busch race on Saturday that was in HD) should be a real treat.

Just as long as WISE remember's to flip the HD switch! It's been a little flakey lately, so I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best!

WISE remembered to "flip the switch" and it looks pretty good. Lots of SD camera shots being used though which was to be expected.

Well looks like everything went fairly well for the race, except for the last 20 minutes or so. There was some strange ghosting going on. Other than that it looked excellent to me!

WISE still has the ghosting for Shrek. Something they'll hopefully fix tomorrow.

Greetings all,

I have not had a chance to browse the forums for a while.

I would like to respond to some issues raised here. I watched the Daytona race and the "Ghosting" appeared towards the end of the race,
right after NBC had some kind of problem with the HD feed.

The picture was freezing and stuttering and after it cleared up we had the Ghosting issue which continued into Shrek. My theory is that whatever the glitch was upset the HD satellite decoder. I don't see the problem this morning but it is only upconverted SD stuff until prime-time.

We should not have to flip the "Switch" it is controlled by a timer that allows the HD feed to air during programmed times. It works quite well unless the Master Control operator confuses it by doing what we call a "hotpunch" on the program feed.

I don't typically stay up to watch Leno, but I will check on the problems you have seen. The HD timer may have some bad timing information? Can those of you that have seen the problem tell me if the commercials you see before the show comes back in SD are local? And about what time it happens?

I'm surprised that NBC did not promote the race or shrek being in HD, to the best of my knowledge that is the first HD movie they have shown.

Regards

Matt C.E. WISE-TV

Thanks Matt,

Yes it is odd that NBC didn't promote Daytona or Shrek. Shrek was the better of the two presentations as Daytona is a very big production with lots of cameras and NBC doesn't have a lot of experience doing HD sports. NBC has show HD movies in the past but it was before WISE was HD.

Might be a good thing that NBC didn't get too carried away with promoting the 500 being HD. If you had the opportunity to watch it provided some good views with the HD cameras, however they seemed out of focus at times and they didn't have many HD cameras on location for the event. They were using lots of SD camera shots i.e. in the pits, in car cameras etc. The problem with this type of production is that there is currently no technology available for wireless RF transmission of HD camera shots making Nascar not the greatest of events to do an HD production for.

Keep visiting the forums, you'll get a lot of good feedback regarding HD in the Ft. Wayne area that could be very beneficial to you.

Thanks again,

Jason

Unfortunatly, I couldn't watch the whole race as I had to go to work. But as far as the Jay Leno issue, yes there are local commercials at the end of the commercial break. So it would go to break, national commercials with the black side bars, then local commercials, streched and looking kinda green, then the show would return and be streched and very obviously not HD. After I emailed you guys, on Friday, the show was in HD the whole night, and noticed that your local stuff had the side bars, which is good for me so that I don't have to mess with my STB's aspect ratio for only Wise. But I too noticed that the Nascar seemed slightly out of focus and it almost seemed like the audio was off by a split second. Since the local stuff was broadcast with black bars, the picture didn't seem to be as green which is very good.

Thanks,
Ryan

For those of you with DirecTV, their website is now reporting that Fort Wayne locals will be available in 2004. I'm sure it will be standard def channels, but it's still digital technically... :-D

I was listing to Pat White on WOWO and he was promoting the fact that Dish Network was carrying the Fort Wanye Channels. He said that they were going to be in HD, but somehow I highly doubt the satalite companies carry the locals in hd.

From the ads that I saw for Dish Network, they currently only carry ABC, CBS & FOX. I'm hoping when DirecTv picks up Fort Wayne they will add NBC.

WISE-33 is on Echostar/Dish Network.
The advertising campaign somehow "left us out".

Just because something is "Digital" does not always mean it is better.
The very high compression rates used have drawbacks that are very
annoying to my eye. Motion artifacts and "mosquito" noise are the two big ones.

MK

If the local HD channels are carried on either comcast or in my case, mediacom, will they be as compressed as they would be on satalite?

Directv can save their bandwidth for something else, OTA digital w/HD is/will be much better than the overcompressed locals D* will have.

Besides, why would I pay $3 per month for something I can get for free? Although if you have old school SD television and no HD tuner then it could be worthwhile. But as time goes on, more and more people will have HD tuners.

What makes that even worse is people living in Ft. Wayne will be able to receive all local digital signals with just rabbit ears.

The biggest benefit I see is having the ability to record OTA shows on my DTivo. At this point I only have one HD-capable TV and can only enjoy it with non-Tivo'd OTA shows.

And yes, while the overcompression sucks, at least on my "normal" TVs I can enjoy normal shows.

Originally posted by bwohlgemuth
The biggest benefit I see is having the ability to record OTA shows on my DTivo.

Good point. I've been holding out for an HD Tivo, not only waiting for them to come out, but also be less that the anticipated 1k. I could be waiting a while.

In the meantime I may have to get a SD tivo and I guess in that case it would be great to be able to record network shows. Not sure how much I really want to pay $3 a month for something that I am currently getting for free though.

Jason

I'm hoping the new Motorola 6200 will have hard drives available soon for PVR over cable. Then, I could record local stations as well. Right now I have D* with Tivo and cable. I just have basic D* and Comcast with HD. I'd like to condense to one provider. Perferably Comcast for local HD channels - assuming they can get an agreement with WPTA soon.

DialItUp,

One thing you might want to consider.

How many HD channels does Comcast carry other than locals? Just asking because I'm not sure how many they have. HD locals are a non-issue if you live in Ft. Wayne as you can get then OTA fairly easily, especially WPTA as they are transmitting at the highest power. Other than FOX (480p currently, potentially 720p late fall/early winter, at least at a national level) which hardly anyone can receive and they also have no intentions of boosting their signal strength anytime soon. Could be years based on the e-mails they have sent me.

Although if your biggest factor in choosing a provider is the ability to time shift then hopefully Comcast will have a HD PVR soon for you. The HD Tivo soon to come out for D* will have dual D* tuners and supposedly dual OTA tuners as well, but the price is rumored to be around 1k. Kinda salty unless they offer a deal for a 1 year service commitment or something to make the price more realistic.

Let us know how Comcast HD channels look.

Jason

As much as it's going to kill me, I'm going to wait it out at least a month until I buy the new HDTivo from D*. My guess is they will have a promo for the new dish, locals antenna, etc for one decent deal.

Also, the interesting thing about Fort Wayne locals on D*....they are going to be carried on a seperate satellite (actually an existing one that will be moved to a different slot). What this means is that you will either have to get a superwide dish (around 32" wide) or a second 18" dish to get them. My guess is that I'll get the second dish on the back of my house, but I know a bunch of people are going to be surprised to do that...

Comcast has ESPNHD, INHD, INHD2, HBOHD, SHOHD, and MAXHD as of right now. As for how they look, I think they look great myself, but I really have not seen the best quality HD yet, nor can I compare to OTA (just can't justify buying an HD Tuner without the time shifting/PVR and futureproofing). The movie trailers on INHD are very very good, and several of the movies on HBO/SHO/MAX HD were as good (Star Wars EP2, The Ring, Drumline and Die Another Day, the latter made the DVD look very fuzzy). I was surprised to see the NBA Allstar game simulcast in HD on INHD and that looked amazing. I think Comcast is doing a competant job, but they just need to quickly get the rest of the locals on board, and the rest of the movie channels.

Though ofcourse, Comcast keeps raising its rates, which may force me to look for alternatives. The way they have things set up is a scam I believe.

Also, the interesting thing about Fort Wayne locals on D*....they are going to be carried on a seperate satellite (actually an existing one that will be moved to a different slot). What this means is that you will either have to get a superwide dish (around 32" wide) or a second 18" dish to get them. My guess is that I'll get the second dish on the back of my house, but I know a bunch of people are going to be surprised to do that...

Do you currently have a triple lnb dish? These are needed for the three D* satellites that they currently have. These are about 24" wide. They are launching a new satellite sometime this spring that will have spotbeam technology, giving them the ability to do locals.

Are you saying that they are going to move the satellite that they are replacing this spring into a different orbital slot and have 4 satellites to hit? This wouldn't make a lot of sense for anyone other than satellite dish installers as it would give them more work. But I guess they need to meet some deadline for carrying as many local channels as possible this might be their best alternative.

If D* dishes keep getting larger I may as just throw up a good ol C Band satellite on top of the house!

Jason

If they do do this hopefully the only programming that will be on this satellite will be locals.

I think Comcast is doing a competant job, but they just need to quickly get the rest of the locals on board

I think WPTA has to negotiate a deal with Comcast for them to carry the HD channel. WPTA might be asking for too much money from Comcast or Comcast thinks they should get it either really cheap or free since it's available OTA for free.

By the way, ABC has some of the best HD programming available. MNF is awesome and all winter they have been showing about 2 HD movies a week that have been pretty good. This Monday they showed The Fast and the Furious and although the movie is not my favorite the PQ was fantastic.

Originally posted by vereekej
DialItUp,

One thing you might want to consider.

How many HD channels does Comcast carry other than locals? Just asking because I'm not sure how many they have. HD locals are a non-issue if you live in Ft. Wayne as you can get then OTA fairly easily, especially WPTA as they are transmitting at the highest power. Other than FOX (480p currently, potentially 720p late fall/early winter, at least at a national level) which hardly anyone can receive and they also have no intentions of boosting their signal strength anytime soon. Could be years based on the e-mails they have sent me.

Although if your biggest factor in choosing a provider is the ability to time shift then hopefully Comcast will have a HD PVR soon for you. The HD Tivo soon to come out for D* will have dual D* tuners and supposedly dual OTA tuners as well, but the price is rumored to be around 1k. Kinda salty unless they offer a deal for a 1 year service commitment or something to make the price more realistic.

Let us know how Comcast HD channels look.

Jason

Comcast is carrying INHD/INHD2, all local channels except Fox and WPTA, ESPN, HBO-HD, SHO-HD, MAX-HD. I don't subscribe to the premium channels - but both INHD channels look incredible. My DVI port is enabled on the 5100 now and looks a little better than component. I worked out a deal with Comcast for the next 6 months to try out their HD. I already use cable modem, which I'd hate to part with. My total monthly bill right now is only $53 including taxes. I am still on contract with D* until May, so I can't break that yet. Also, I have the RCA DLP set which receives OTA HD and looks great also. I am located less than a mile for most of the local stations so I pick them all up crystal clear with an indoor amplified antenna. I would like D* tivo when it comes out, but the price seems pretty steep at 1K. I think I will be able to lease something from Comcast for $5-10/month.

Matt

Originally posted by vereekej
I think WPTA has to negotiate a deal with Comcast for them to carry the HD channel. WPTA might be asking for too much money from Comcast or Comcast thinks they should get it either really cheap or free since it's available OTA for free.


Shhhh don't tell anybody but the local broadcast engineers are pretty friendly with each other. The fact that WPTA is not on Comcast is a corporate level decision. It is my understanding that they want to negotiate a group deal for all the Granite stations with Comcast.

MK

Anyone getting lower signal strengths from WANE lately? The past week I have been getting a really poor signal compared to previously. I think I'm going to have to journey up on top of the roof and check alignment on my antenna but I have a hard time believing that it has moved at all. Worth a check though, gotta get that signal strength up higher before the final four games that will be HD.

MK,

I have heard of other MSO's that are not carrying all local HD channels so we're definitely not in a unique situation at all. Some are having difficulties because local broadcasters want the MSO to pick up all subchannels as well, which are sometimes not wanted/needed. Usually though it falls into the hands of the MSO which will hold out for the best deal possible. Probably not a real high priority yet at Comcast to carry local HD channels since the market penetration in Ft. Wayne area isn't that high. Comcast also has a reputation for being bullies.

Jason

Slightly off topic...

Anyone catch last night's NBC-33 newscast and the spot on the Women's Bureau? See anything unusual on there?