Does this transmission line go all the way up to the antenna, and if so that sure would be alot of weight on the tower.

Just hope they get 33 going the last half of this year when ABC takes over the races. Had to watch them in SD last year except what was on ESPN.The truck race will be on FOX this Saturday in HD, Dish still don't have SpeedHD yet.

Does this transmission line go all the way up to the antenna, and if so that sure would be alot of weight on the tower.

Yep, all the way from the transmitter to the antenna. It weighs a lot and has to be attached to the tower is a special way to allow for contraction and expansion. That's why we will have plenty of notice before they get on the air.

Is anyone else experiencing reception issues on 27-1?

I live in Ava and am getting extremely choppy or no reception on 27-1 (all my other HDs are coming in fine.) This condition began approximately when the NFL playoffs were on and seems to have gotten worse.

I thought it might be my equipment, but I found three other people that are to the east of the 27-1 tower (one of them in Rogersville!) that are experiencing the same thing.

My email to Dave Smith at KOLR10 got the following response: "We suspect there may be a problem but haven't confirmed it yet because all of our equipment at the studio is working fine. We have had a couple similar complaints recently so you're not the only one & we appreciate you informing us. We're keeping an eye on it & need to check a few things."

Anyone else have any insight?

Thanks.

- Nuke

I don't watch KSFX-DT very much, but when I have watched, I haven't seen any problems with it.

"  State Rep. Bryan King (R. Ark.) has announced a campaign to get District 91, including all of Carroll County, switched to local access channels offered by satellite broadcast services to northwest Arkansas television stations [instead of Springfield, MO]."

Full article at:
http://www.lovelycitizen.com/story/1312812.html

Just spoke with my source at KSPR, he told me that the antenna and transmission line were to be delivered May-June and that they hoped to be up before their extension runs out 8/18. Not exactly what everyone wanted to hear, I'm sure.

... Not exactly what everyone wanted to hear, I'm sure.No, but exacty what was expected. They're taking this down to the wire.

Just spoke with my source at KSPR, he told me that the antenna and transmission line were to be delivered May-June and that they hoped to be up before their extension runs out 8/18. Not exactly what everyone wanted to hear, I'm sure.
From what I hear August is optimistic. I'm hearing somewhere between labor day and Thanksgiving.

DirecTV HD locals here in Ozark? Don't know if this is the right place to post, but I just moved here from KC last fall and am pretty aggravated w/ the lack of HD support here locally. Mediacom sucks and I need the NFL package so I opted for DirecTV. No locals in HD!!! What a pain to hook up an OTA Antenna just to watch locals in HD!! And no ABC!!! No Lost in HD!!! I'm pissed! I can't even record shows I like and fast forward through commercials, unless I want to watch them in SD! Who do we complain to? Help? Thanks

DirecTV HD locals here in Ozark? Don't know if this is the right place to post, but I just moved here from KC last fall and am pretty aggravated w/ the lack of HD support here locally. Mediacom sucks and I need the NFL package so I opted for DirecTV. No locals in HD!!! What a pain to hook up an OTA Antenna just to watch locals in HD!! And no ABC!!! No Lost in HD!!! I'm pissed! I can't even record shows I like and fast forward through commercials, unless I want to watch them in SD! Who do we complain to? Help? Thanks

If you have an HR20 you can record OTA, if you have an HR21 an OTA adapter is supposed to be released soon.

As far as HD LiL from DirecTV, they had announced that they would carry this market in Fall of 2006, yes 2006. They have now removed us from the latest list which is for "early 2008" and are blaming NEXSTAR Broadcasting, which operates channels 10 and 27. They evidently are unable to come to an agreement and since there is only one station other than them that currently broadcasts in HD, I guess it will be a while before we see HD LiL.

DirecTV HD locals here in Ozark? Don't know if this is the right place to post, but I just moved here from KC last fall and am pretty aggravated w/ the lack of HD support here locally. Mediacom sucks and I need the NFL package so I opted for DirecTV. No locals in HD!!! What a pain to hook up an OTA Antenna just to watch locals in HD!! And no ABC!!! No Lost in HD!!! I'm pissed! I can't even record shows I like and fast forward through commercials, unless I want to watch them in SD! Who do we complain to? Help? ThanksYou should've obtained an HR20 HD DVR. It has OTA HD tuners, unlike the cheapened HR21 DVRs.

Blame DirecTV for leasing crippled hardware, KSPR for no OTA HD and nexstar for trying to squeeze more money out of DirecTV just to carry HD channels that D* doesn't charge customers extra for.

When you moved from KC, you could have:
Paid a local D* installer to put up a dish here.
Brought your DirecTV equipment with you from KC.
Gone to directv.com and changed your mailing address to your new address, and kept KC as your service address.
You would've kept the KC HD locals.

You should've obtained an HR20 HD DVR. It has OTA HD tuners, unlike the cheapened HR21 DVRs.

Blame DirecTV for leasing crippled hardware, KSPR for no OTA HD and nexstar for trying to squeeze more money out of DirecTV just to carry HD channels that D* doesn't charge customers extra for.

When you moved from KC, you could have:
Paid a local D* installer to put up a dish here.
Brought your DirecTV equipment with you from KC.
Gone to directv.com and changed your mailing address to your new address, and kept KC as your service address.
You would've kept the KC HD locals.

What would happen if one were to move from Springfield to KC and you called D* to change your programming to that market, but you forgot (whoops!) your equipment and it stayed in Springfield? Would it receive the KC programming?

Purely hypothetical. Not a suggestion. I'm truly curious as to how the system works.

Local channels are based on your service address in DirecTV's records. With conditions. Most HD locals are on "spot" beams aimed at the intended market. If you live too far out of the spot beam range, you won't get the locals for that market, even if your "service" address is in that market. Example: You couldn't get Birmingham, AL HD locals here, just because you have Birmingham service address. The B'ham spot beam doesn't reach the Ozarks.

I have heard that KC's HD spot beam reaches as far south as the Ark./MO border. That's all I care to say on this.

More info can be found over at dbstalk.com by searching for "moving"

What a pain to hook up an OTA Antenna just to watch locals in HD!!
Actually, you get a pretty good return on your effort in putting up an antenna. You get 7 channels in all... 4 HD and 3 SD.

I know some people in the Ozark/Nixa area that are getting all the Springfield chs and two NW Ark. digital channels from NE Benton County - NBC-HD & FOX-SD. They live slightly outside this coverage area.
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT1006433.gif
They use a CM 4228 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm) with the screen removed, and a good preamp.

Like rhoops, said, a good OTA antenna offers great free TV for the 1-time cost of the hardware. And OTA is nearly always more reliable than cable or satellite. Important during stormy weather.

Actually, you get a pretty good return on your effort in putting up an antenna. You get 7 channels in all... 4 HD and 3 SD.

I actually get 9 in Ozark, 3-1,3-2,3-3,10-1,21-1,21-2,21-3, 27-1,33-1. 4 HD and 5 SD.

Arxaw, what kind of coverage is KHOG getting with their digital signal, I am moving a couple of miles away and on top of a hill, any chance for KHOG near Ozark? TVfool's Google Earth maps show a slight chance, but I know their info isn't always accurate.

The people I know in that area cannot get KHOG. Their tower is much farther South than KNWA-DT's.
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT611262.gif

That being said, it's all about elevation where you live and elevation of hills between you and the tower. What's the elevation where you're moving? Google Earth can tell you, if you have that software.
http://earth.google.com/

Once you install google earth, you can also download the Fayetteville, Ark. TV transmitter overlay for it at tvfool.com

The people I know in that area cannot get KHOG. Their tower is much farther South than KNWA-DT's.
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT611262.gif

That being said, it's all about elevation where you live and elevation of hills between you and the tower. What's the elevation where you're moving? Google Earth can tell you, if you have that software.
http://earth.google.com/

Once you install google earth, you can also download the Fayetteville, Ark. TV transmitter overlay for it at tvfool.com

I have the overlay, it shows a touch of purple, of course it also shows a full power KSPR digital, so I wasn't sure. I have picked up the analog KHOG in the past, snowy and sporadic. The elevation at my new house is 1330 ft, and i am mounting an antenna on the south-southwest facing chimney. The top of the chimney is 33 feet above ground level. It will be about 8 degrees difference between KWNA and KHOG, so I hope to be able to pull in both?

Check out the "Has anyone gotten their $40. tuner coupon in the mail yet?" Forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=997724&page=3

Check out the "Has anyone gotten their $40. tuner coupon in the mail yet?" Forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=997724&page=3This link may be in that other thread you posted. Anyway, if you want to check the status of your coupon(s), go to:
https://www.dtv2009.gov/CheckStatus.aspx

I have the overlay, it shows a touch of purple, of course it also shows a full power KSPR digital, so I wasn't sure. I have picked up the analog KHOG in the past, snowy and sporadic. The elevation at my new house is 1330 ft, and i am mounting an antenna on the south-southwest facing chimney. The top of the chimney is 33 feet above ground level. It will be about 8 degrees difference between KWNA and KHOG, so I hope to be able to pull in both?You might be able to pick up KHOG, but it's iffy at best. A friend of mine in downtown Eureka Springs is getting KYTV-DT, KOZK-DT, KSFX-DT. Nothing out of KSPR-DT (of course) or KOLR-DT. He's got a BIG hill right in the way and both TVFool and google earth overlays showed he would get no TV at his house. So, you never know.

Your coverage shown for KSPR-DT may be a prediction for post-analog reception.

Do you have google earth software and the downloadable Springfield TV overlay for it? Or are you just looking at the overlay map at TVFool.com?

I have the torrent file and use Google earth.

You might be able to pick up KHOG, but it's iffy at best. A friend of mine in downtown Eureka Springs is getting KYTV-DT, KOZK-DT, KSFX-DT. Nothing out of KSPR-DT (of course) or KOLR-DT.
Very interesting.... Since KSFX-DT and KOLR-DT use the same antenna and transmission line, and the same make and model of transmitter...
The only difference is the frequency. It looks like channel 52 doesn't carry as well as channel 28. That's not entirely un-expected.

I wonder what the "optimum" channel is?

If it shows any color at all, you might have a slim chance at receiving the station. It all depends on the antenna/preamp, HEIGHT and of course, the tuner you use.

I'm going to give it a shot, I plan on using a 4228 and a CM 7777 preamp, hopefully my chimney will block enough of the Springfield signals that I don't screw those up. If not, I'll just run that antenna to one dvr and a second "local" antenna to my main dvr/tv. If D* gets the MRV working I might add a third antenna and dvr and shoot for Joplin channels next spring, who knows?

The only difference is the frequency. It looks like channel 52 doesn't carry as well as channel 28.Down here in NW Ark., 52 is not receivable as easily as 28 is. Fortunately, both of them are virtually glitch free at my location ~71 mi away. Elevation helps a lot.

I wonder what the "optimum" channel is?Different receivers and antennas, preamps, etc. all affect it, of course. But the easiest digital channel for me to receive from Springfield is nearly always KOZK-DT (RF 23). And it's one of the lowest power stations.

My worst station to watch is PBS KAFT-DT on VHF 9, distance ~45 miles away. In bad weather, or when certain appliances are running in the house, A/V dropouts are common. I can stand the video glitches, but the missing audio is very annoying.

People down in Little Rock have the same problems with VHF. KETS-DT VHF 5 and KTHV-DT 12 both suffer from impulse noise interference that UHFs aren't bothered by.

rhoops,
Antennaweb shows pre/post transition signal strength estimations. KOLR-DT 52 is farther down the list than KOLR-DT 10. Some people on the fringes may get DT10 where they couldn't get DT 52. I just hope it isn't plagued with glitches like 9 is.
http://i28.tinypic.com/1znrl07.jpg

Are there co-channel interference problems with OTA DTV?

Hi All,

Just wanted to say thanks for all the great info everyone has provided here. We took the HD plunge in Feb. of 2006, after out trusty 36" CRT started failing. We started off with a Polaroid, (shudder, a whole story unto itself) but we now have a Pioneer 50" Kuro. We had locals in SD from Dish, so I had never even considered attempting OTA reception. But since we now had an HDTV I thought I'd give it a try for our annual Super Bowl party. Our house is literally sitting at the bottom of a bowl, a short walk from Table Rock Lake, with hills all around us and an elevation of about 925'. TV Fool didn't look hopeful, but using Google Earth and the FCC overlays, it looked like I could get a bounce off of the hills to my SW. Not what you would expect when the transmitters are NNE :-) I ordered the Australian Jaycar LT3182 antenna ($47 shipped!) and the Channel Master 7777 pre-amp. I then took a little portable analog TV up to the attic with me, and using KSFX 27, walked around all over the attic until I got the analog signal looking as best I could. I ended up going for a picture that was somewhat fuzzier than what was possible, but had the least multipath. I mounted the antenna, and tweaked on it's position for a few days. The Super Bowl ended up looking fantastic, and had only one minor dropout the entire afternoon, and a lot of our guests had their first true HD experience. However, sheer luck was involved, because somedays the reception is unusable, while other days it's solid. Windy days are the worst. One thing that helped is attenuating the signal at times, and that seems to reduce the multipath induced dropouts. I discovered this when I realized things improved every time I split the signal. It's now split 5 ways, along with a Radio Shack attenuator. (Without the pre-amp, and not splitting the signal, I could only get a couple of stations) I'm able to get chs. KYTV3, KOLR10, KOZK21, KSFX27, and KNWA51, plus a smattering of analog channels. KNWA is the strongest, sometimes seeing 92 on the Dish VIP622 meter. My next move is to install my VHF antenna I already had and tweak it to get KOLR10 when they move their digital signal back to channel 10. All in all, I'm very surprised I can get anything at all, but I had a lot of fun (and frustration) traipsing up and down from the attic. Again, thanks to arxaw, rhoops, and everyone else for all the excellent info and advice.

Michael

justpushplay,

The jaycar looks like a good antenna. How long is it? I see you've got it tilted, which can sometimes increase (or decrease) signal strength. Did aiming it level lower signal strength? It's also odd that KNWA comes in the best, as your TVFool chart shows it the weakest, and I assume off-axis from the direction you have the antenna pointed. That antenna must be partial to channel 50, which KNWA is on.

How does KOLR 10 analog currently look? If you get it even halfway decently, you may not need to add a VHF antenna when KOLR-DT moves back to VHF in a few months.

I am in Branson and have a 4228 mounted on my roof but with the amp that came with it, but am only able to get 3-1,3-2,3-3 but at 60%. Would I be better taking the screen off and trying to pick up stations to the south. I am at an elevation of 866. Any thoughts. Thanks

I am in Branson and have a 4228 mounted on my roof but with the amp that came with it, but am only able to get 3-1,3-2,3-3 but at 60%. Would I be better taking the screen off and trying to pick up stations to the south. I am at an elevation of 866. Any thoughts. Thanks
For long distance reception, nothing helps as much as additional height. Since you are right on the "cusp" an additional 10 feet of antenna height might do wonders.

A 35' push-up mast at the side or you house would be better, and a 50' Rohn 25 tower would be even better. The first 10 feet give you the most bang for your buck. You reach a point of diminishing returns fairly quickly after that. As Mary Poppins said "Enough is as good as a feast".

You might get an idea of how close you are to "enough" by looking for 27 and 33 analog. They are on the northernmost tower where 10-1 and 27-1 digital are. If you get even a glimmer of a signal on analog they are within reach.

I've always suspected that some UHF antennas would work fairly well on upper band VHF. It seems our favorite Channel Master 4228 does that to some degree:

Even better for us, the 4228 favors channel 10.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Using a UHF antenna for VHF
Some UHF antennas are advertised as working for VHF also. As the following net gain graph shows, there is not much truth in that. For channels 7-13, the MegaWave and the Winegard PR-8800 perform about as well as rabbit ears. The Square Shooter is terrible for all VHF channels. All of these antennas are useless for channels 2-6.


The surprise here is the Channel Master 4228, which has a lot of gain for VHF-high, especially channels 9-13. What makes it different is the screen that is continuous across all 8 dipoles. Other 8-bays, like the 8800 and the DB-8, have a reflector that is not continuous across the right and left halves, and thus they have no useful gain for VHF.

crwillared,
It all depends on what hills are between you and the towers. Try reaiming the 4228 to the NWA transmitters before modifying the antenna. Check the compass direction at:
http://www.antennaweb.org.
Enter your complete address and add at least 50' to the +option at the bottom of the page. That will give you a more realistic estimate of what channels you might get at your address.

Copy and paste the results back here.

I've never seen an amp included w/ a 4228. What brand/model is it? Is it a single piece amp, or two piece preamp + separate power supply?

I was wrong on the antenna it is a DB8. Using a 2-piece amp on a 6ft mast.

I've always suspected that some UHF antennas would work fairly well on upper band VHF. It seems our favorite Channel Master 4228 does that to some degree:

Even better for us, the 4228 favors channel 10.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Using a UHF antenna for VHF
Some UHF antennas are advertised as working for VHF also. As the following net gain graph shows, there is not much truth in that. For channels 7-13, the MegaWave and the Winegard PR-8800 perform about as well as rabbit ears. The Square Shooter is terrible for all VHF channels. All of these antennas are useless for channels 2-6.


The surprise here is the Channel Master 4228, which has a lot of gain for VHF-high, especially channels 9-13. What makes it different is the screen that is continuous across all 8 dipoles. Other 8-bays, like the 8800 and the DB-8, have a reflector that is not continuous across the right and left halves, and thus they have no useful gain for VHF.rhoops,
I wonder if the 4228's screen really makes any difference on upper VHF. After removing the screen to make mine bi-directional, I could tell no difference in KOLR 10 analog reception @ 71 mi away, nor KAFT 13 analog @ 45 mi. Also KAFT-DT 9 pegs the DTV SS meter, with or without the screen.

Here's a screen shot of KOLR 10 analog, with the screen removed on my 4228. This was taken a few minutes ago on an analog bedroom TV:

http://i27.tinypic.com/6dxq51.jpg
Other than 480i scan lines and a reflection from a window, reception is pretty good. I think the ringing around the players is due to the sharpness turned up on that TV (i really need to adjust it).

I think I got the info right now, sorry about recent edits.











Show All Stations Show Digital Stations Only Show Analog Stations Only



DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City, State Live
Date Compass
Heading Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
yellow
uhf
KWBM 31 MNT HARRISON, AR 79° 8.1 31
* yellow
uhf
KWBM-DT 31.1 MNT HARRISON, AR TBD 185° 17.4 31
red
uhf
K17DL 17 CW BRANSON, MO 315° 5.7 17
* blue
vhf
KOLR-DT 10.1 CBS SPRINGFIELD, MO Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 19° 39.5 10
blue
uhf
KSFX 27 FOX SPRINGFIELD, MO 19° 39.5 27
blue
uhf
K23DU 23 HTN HARRISON, AR 179° 30.6 23
blue
vhf
KYTV 3 NBC SPRINGFIELD, MO 21° 36.7 3
blue
uhf
KSPR 33 ABC SPRINGFIELD, MO 19° 39.5 33
blue
vhf
KOLR 10 CBS SPRINGFIELD, MO 19° 39.5 10
blue
uhf
KOZK 21 PBS SPRINGFIELD, MO 21° 36.5 21
blue
uhf
KNJD-LP 59 REL ST. LOUIS, MO 34° 3.8 59
violet
vhf
KEMV 6 PBS MOUNTAIN VIEW, AR 137° 79.0 6
Note:
The above listing is a conservative prediction of stations received. Depending on the specifics of your installation, you may be able to receive stations that do not appear in this list.






Privacy Policy
© Copyright CEA 2008

That doesn't show you can receive any digital channels - at least not any on the air yet. And no channels from NW Ark. You must have big hills between you & the transmitters.

That being said, antennaweb is not always accurate. A friend near me entered his address and it showed NO reception at all. But he gets:
3-1
3-2
3-3
10 (analog)
21-1
21-2
21-3
27-1
33 (analog)

So, either antennaweb is wrong and you have an antenna/preamp/coax problem.
Or, antennaweb is correct, and you're lucky to get what you're getting.

Can you get analog channels 10 or 33?

I can get 33 but is fuzzzy, 3.1 comes in at 60 on the signal strength according to the info from the tuner on my Sony. 21.1 can't lock on to signal.
Thanks

It's possible you might get 33-1 when they increase power in a few months. Also, you could have a problem with your coax, connectors, preamp or antenna. However, it's impossible to predict if changing it all out would get you any more channels or not.

Check or replace all your connectors, since that's the cheapest thing to try. Also make sure you're using RG6 coax, not RG59. RG6 has a bigger center conductor than RG59, and has works better for UHF.

I can get 33 but is fuzzzy, 3.1 comes in at 60 on the signal strength according to the info from the tuner on my Sony. 21.1 can't lock on to signal.
Thanks
If you get 3-1 and the subs it's almost a sure thing that you will get 33.1 when they go full power from their new location which is basically where 3.1 is.

10-1 and 27-1 are on the same tower as 33 analog, but quite a bit lower. I don't think an additional 10 or 20 feet of height would bring them in for you. For anyone down south 10-1 and 27-1 will always be harder to get than stations on the southernmost tower.

Thanks for your help.

If you get 3-1 and the subs it's almost a sure thing that you will get 33.1 when they go full power from their new location which is basically where 3.1 is. If he's only getting 3-1 (RF 44) @ 60%, it's hard to say. Because the DB8 he's using has more gain for 44 than it does for 19 (the channel 33-1 will be on). See net gain at:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

10-1 and 27-1 are on the same tower as 33 analog, but quite a bit lower. ...In terms of height, how does the RF ch 10 antenna compare to the height of the ch 52 antenna?

In terms of height, how does the RF ch 10 antenna compare to the height of the ch 52 antenna?
Channel 10's antenna is at the top of the 2000 ft tower. In fact it IS the top of the tower. FCC records show the HAAT at 631 meters and 52/27 is at 493 meters.

138 meters difference.

KSPR 33 Analog is at 596 M HAAT.

After next February when channel 33 goes dark that will come down, and Channel 10 digital will transmit from the top of the tower. We will probably try to put 27-1 where 33 was, or as high as we can go.

At one time that tower held channels 10, 21, and 33, then 27 was added when their old tower fell down. Then 21 moved off and we added a single antenna for 52/28.

When 33 and 27 analog antennas come down that will free up a lot of space.

If he's only getting 3-1 (RF 44) @ 60%, it's hard to say. Because the DB8 he's using has more gain for 44 than it does for 19 (the channel 33-1 will be on). See net gain at:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

I expect the actual difference to be slight. Free space path loss will be greater at channel 44, as will transmission line loss on the receiving end. (of course that is where a pre-amp really works).

If the signal is not there 6 feet above the roof, it is quite likely available at some greater elevation. The question is "how much higher". The first extra 10 feet is cheap. A 70 foot tower might work wonders, but it could cost more that the big screen TV.

It's too bad we can't use a balloon or a kite to test things out. Come to think of it, those bucket trucks the sign companies and power companies use might just do the trick for a test.

My brother is getting ready to put up a new antenna setup at his farm. He has always just aimed for the Kansas City stations, but he's hoping to do a rotor this time, and get both the KC and Springfield/Jpolin stations. The farm is located in southern Bates county, near Hume... about 3 miles form the Vernon county line. Anyone have luck from that area?

Channel 10's antenna is at the top of the 2000 ft tower. In fact it IS the top of the tower. FCC records show the HAAT at 631 meters and 52/27 is at 493 meters.

138 meters difference.Wow, that's about 450' difference. That, plus getting off of ch 52, should increase your coverage area quite a bit for KOLR-DT.

I hope fringe viewers (like me) don't have impulse noise problems on DT-10. KAFT-DT 9 suffers from it here and it's very annoying when the audio drops out. Clothes washer, dishwasher, ice maker and lightning are the worst culprits. Occasionally, a light switch will cause it. The lightning does not have to be very close either. Just in the area. :(

My brother is getting ready to put up a new antenna setup at his farm. He has always just aimed for the Kansas City stations, but he's hoping to do a rotor this time, and get both the KC and Springfield/Jpolin stations. The farm is located in southern Bates county, near Hume... about 3 miles form the Vernon county line. Anyone have luck from that area?
I'm afraid that's just too far away. The Springfield TV stations are all on the east side of town, about 10 miles east of downtown, which makes it that much harder. The Joplin area stations might be possible.
When I'm traveling between Springfield and KC, I always look at the TV antennas on peoples homes. I can tell that there are some folks who do get both KC and Springfield stations. I've seen homes north of Warsaw with antennas pointing toward Springfield, but that's quite a bit east of Hume.

With that disclaimer, if you are adding a rotor there's not much to lose by swinging it around.

A lot can be learned by just seeing what other folks are using for an antenna and where it is pointing.

Unless you live on a mountain top, the curvature of the earth will limit your reception of distant TV stations.

I keep forgetting the formula for line of sight distance to the horizon (over smooth earth or ocean), but the one here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vhf
is close enough.

A 2000 foot transmitter tower can "see" the horizon 54 miles away. To that you can add the distance from your receive antenna to the horizon. A quick back of the envelope calculation shows the following distances in miles

Antenna Height Distance to Horizon
25 feet 6.12 Miles
50 feet 8.60 Miles
100 feet 12.24 Miles
200 feet 17.3 Miles

Now the radio horizon is slightly greater than line of sight, but you can see that going from 25 feet to 200 feet on your antenna won't work miracles. It certainly doesn't give you 8 times the range. It just gives you 11 miles more.

Even if you built a 2000 foot receive tower that would limit you to 108 miles.

With that said, I knew a ham radio operator in Rolla who just happened to have a 350 foot tower at his house and he often picked up Chicago TV stations nearly 500 miles away. Your mileage will vary.

KOLR used to contract with a company in Lee's Summit to measure our frequency on a monthly basis. They would call on the phone and have me drop the aural carrier for a few seconds to verify they were actually measuring us.

rhoops suggestion to check out other antennas in the area is a good idea. See what direction they're pointed.

He may have a shot at a couple of Joplin stations. More likely after analog is shut down in a few months.

http://i28.tinypic.com/zk0hae.png

Unless you live on a mountain top, the curvature of the earth will limit your reception of distant TV stations.

I keep forgetting the formula for line of sight distance to the horizon (over smooth earth or ocean), but the one here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vhf
is close enough.

A 2000 foot transmitter tower can "see" the horizon 54 miles away. To that you can add the distance from your receive antenna to the horizon. A quick back of the envelope calculation shows the following distances in miles

Antenna Height Distance to Horizon
25 feet 6.12 Miles
50 feet 8.60 Miles
100 feet 12.24 Miles
200 feet 17.3 Miles

Now the radio horizon is slightly greater than line of sight, but you can see that going from 25 feet to 200 feet on your antenna won't work miracles. It certainly doesn't give you 8 times the range. It just gives you 11 miles more.

Even if you built a 2000 foot receive tower that would limit you to 108 miles.

With that said, I knew a ham radio operator in Rolla who just happened to have a 350 foot tower at his house and he often picked up Chicago TV stations nearly 500 miles away. Your mileage will vary.

KOLR used to contract with a company in Lee's Summit to measure our frequency on a monthly basis. They would call on the phone and have me drop the aural carrier for a few seconds to verify they were actually measuring us.


Rough RF values

STATUTE MILES=SQUARE ROOT OF (AGL*2)
KILOMETERS=SQUARE ROOT OF (AGL METERS*17)

Eyeballs (perfect weather)

VISUAL (MILES)=SQUARE ROOT OF (AGL*1.56)
VISUAL (NAUTICAL MILES)=SQUARE ROOT OF (AGL*1.33)

WDG, USAF (R)

Has anyone else suddenly lost all the Mediacom QAM signals. I'm only able to pick up KOZK and nothing else is showing up. I'm using Eye TV on a Mac with a USB ATSC tuner. I recorded Lost this past thursday with no problem, and all of the sudden everything has disappeared.

This needs to be resolved before Thursday. I...need...Lost...in HD!

Has anyone else suddenly lost all the Mediacom QAM signals. I'm only able to pick up KOZK and nothing else is showing up. I'm using Eye TV on a Mac with a USB ATSC tuner. I recorded Lost this past thursday with no problem, and all of the sudden everything has disappeared.

This needs to be resolved before Thursday. I...need...Lost...in HD!
I just checked and have all the Mediacom clear QAM channels here in SW Springfield. I'm near Cherry and Glenstone.

I ran the exact coordinates through TVfool, and here they are:

Look at the transmit power for KODE... then look at the miniscule transmit power for KMBC, and even though theyr'e not much different in terms of distance, KMBC is supposed to be stronger? With that tiny amount of power? I've never had trouble getting KMBC, though. As far as KOAM goes... we haven't tried it for years.... but when I was a boy, me and my grandmother would watch that station all the time from that location. It was a little snowy, but not at all bad. She had a seperate antenna and an A-B switch for KOAM.... my grandpa liked their livestock market reports at noon. (He was an Angus Beef farmer) I read that a new station is supposed to be coming on with a transmitter between Warsaw and Osage Beach... on 49... what's the scoop on this, is this low power or something?

Actually I'm just now re-doing my scan and it's already found five channels, so I don't know if that was just a weird hiccup or something.

I read that a new station is supposed to be coming on with a transmitter between Warsaw and Osage Beach... on 49... what's the scoop on this, is this low power or something?
Channel 49 KRBK has had a construction permit for quite a while. It's owned by the Koplar family of St Louis who used to own KPLR and the Chase Park Plaza Hotel. Since the CP is for analog, it would be rather stupid to build it now with less than a year left. The actual site is an FM radio tower between Lebanon and Camdenton. I see from the FCC records that another applicant Dr. Timothy D. Lischwe, an Osage Beach Ophthalmologist, is trying to make a move on that channel.

KRBK has filed and been allowed to skip signing on as analog. THey're going straight to digital.

I've always suspected that some UHF antennas would work fairly well on upper band VHF. It seems our favorite Channel Master 4228 does that to some degree:

Even better for us, the 4228 favors channel 10.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Using a UHF antenna for VHF
Some UHF antennas are advertised as working for VHF also. As the following net gain graph shows, there is not much truth in that. For channels 7-13, the MegaWave and the Winegard PR-8800 perform about as well as rabbit ears. The Square Shooter is terrible for all VHF channels. All of these antennas are useless for channels 2-6.

The surprise here is the Channel Master 4228, which has a lot of gain for VHF-high, especially channels 9-13. What makes it different is the screen that is continuous across all 8 dipoles. Other 8-bays, like the 8800 and the DB-8, have a reflector that is not continuous across the right and left halves, and thus they have no useful gain for VHF.
rhoops,
The 4228 exceeds the FCC planning factors for both UHF and upper VHF.
Scroll down to "Pro Performance" in this article:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/On-RF/2006.01.25-f_doug.shtml


Gain of various consumer antennas, as measured by Kerry Cozad of Dielectric Communications (http://www.dielectric.com/broadcast/about.asp).
http://i25.tinypic.com/2hd72fd.png

ARXAW, Hay Thanks for all Your contribution on the AVS Forums on Antennas to help Folk get Good HD before analog is gone...
When I did Radio & TV repair, I loved doing Antenna work...

ARXAW, Hay Thanks for all Your contribution on the AVS Forums on Antennas to help Folk get Good HD before analog is gone...
When I did Radio & TV repair, I loved doing Antenna work...G. B. You'e welcome.

There aren't many antenna installer repair guys left any more, except satellite antennas. And most of them know little about OTA stuff. Too bad, too, because now with digital it's possible to get better reception OTA than cable or sat usually deliver.

arxaw , Note: I PMed You to...

I'm in NE Ozark and my tv shows a program guide w/ the OTA antenna. Last night I noticed I was recieving program data for 33-1! Excited I switched channels and got just a blue screen. Well I thought maybe a re scan and I could possibly pick up a reception. No! After re scanning my tv didn't even recognize this channel anymore! Can anyone tell me what's going on? Note: I realize ABC is not available or capable of a digital broadcast yet, but I'm confused now as to why my tv recognized for a moment there is a 33-1?!?

Don't suppose anyone knows why I can't get KOAM (CBS) and Fox digital broadcasts here in Joplin. I'm just getting my feet wet in the HD thing, I've done some snooping around and I'm just not picking up those channels. I can get KSN (NBC) digital, but not HD, which confuses me as well.

I'm in NE Ozark and my tv shows a program guide w/ the OTA antenna. Last night I noticed I was recieving program data for 33-1! Excited I switched channels and got just a blue screen. Well I thought maybe a re scan and I could possibly pick up a reception. No! After re scanning my tv didn't even recognize this channel anymore! ...Atmospheric conditions were favorable for OTA reception at your address (http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html). Favorable enough to be able to receive the program guide data from KSPR-DT's feeble transmitter at some point while the TV was looking for it. But not strong enough to actually get a lock on the station to decode the audio & video data.

I have gotten KSPR's program guide data before, here in NW Arkansas, some 60 mi away from their toy transmitter. I have also gotten guide data from from as far away as Marshall TX and OKC, OK. But I couldn't see the actual programs.

Don't suppose anyone knows why I can't get KOAM (CBS) and Fox digital broadcasts here in Joplin. I'm just getting my feet wet in the HD thing, I've done some snooping around and I'm just not picking up those channels. I can get KSN (NBC) digital, but not HD, which confuses me as well.KOAM-DT is on VHF ch 13. The FCC limits KOAM-DT's power on 13 to a tiny amount, to protect KAFT analog in Fayetteville, Ark., which has been on 13 a lot longer than KOAM-DT. Once analog TV is shutoff in a few months, KOAM-DT will be able to increase power significantly.

According to Wikipedia, KFJX Fox Joplin, is still analog only. Not sure if this is correct.

Not sure why KSNF-DT's NBC is not in HD. Probably don't have HD capability yet. Perhaps rhoops knows.

Not sure how accurate TitanTV is, but it lists KSNF-DT as 46.1, which I pick up (SD), and KNWAHD at 50.1, which is NBC HD... can't get it. I've got the station overlays for GoogleMaps, but not sure how to read the colors, probably should've read more before just installing and looking, LOL.

I don't know how much I trust TitanTV, it says some of my 26.x channels are all PBS, but one of them is a Create channel, like HGTV and FoodNetwork combined or something.

I don't know how much I trust TitanTV, it says some of my 26.x channels are all PBS, but one of them is a Create channel, like HGTV and FoodNetwork combined or something.

Create TV is technically a PBS channel, also known as PBS Create. Its a combination of ALL the shows that feature home construction, cooking, crafts, etc., that PBS and their affiliates produce. My wife and I also watch Create TV on AMC 4 satellite, on the Ku band. Its part of a block of about a dozen PBS feeds (PBS Network, PBS Kids, PBS World, PBS Create, plus a half dozen or so program feeds) that are available to anyone for free that have the right satellite equipment. If you were to watch PBS World, you would swear it is a combination of Discovery Channel meets National Geographic Channel.

Jim Thomas
Milliken, Colorado
<north of Denver>

Not sure how accurate TitanTV is, but it lists KSNF-DT as 46.1, which I pick up (SD), and KNWAHD at 50.1, which is NBC HD... can't get it. I've got the station overlays for GoogleMaps, but not sure how to read the colorsGoogle Earth TV reception overlays are color coded in terms of signal strength at your location.

Colors from strongest to weakest signal are:
White
Red
Orange/Yellow
Green
Blue
Violet/Pink
Clear (no signal)

Pink is very weak signal and will require a good antenna+preamp combo setup, plus a sensitive tuner that works well with weak signals. For anyone considering a coupon-eligible converter box, the Zenith at RadioShack & Circuit City is the best one for weak signals.

Create TV is technically a PBS channel, also known as PBS Create. Its a combination of ALL the shows that feature home construction, cooking, crafts, etc., that PBS and their affiliates produce. My wife and I also watch Create TV on AMC 4 satellite, on the Ku band. Its part of a block of about a dozen PBS feeds (PBS Network, PBS Kids, PBS World, PBS Create, plus a half dozen or so program feeds) that are available to anyone for free that have the right satellite equipment. If you were to watch PBS World, you would swear it is a combination of Discovery Channel meets National Geographic Channel.

Jim Thomas
Milliken, Colorado
<north of Denver>
Tell me more about these PBS feeds! Digital Ku? D/L Frequncy? Symbol rate? FEC?

According to Wikipedia, KFJX Fox Joplin, is still analog only. Not sure if this is correct.

Not sure why KSNF-DT's NBC is not in HD. Probably don't have HD capability yet. Perhaps rhoops knows.

KFJX has a digital simulcast on KOAM's multicast channel 13. It appears as 7-2 on my tuner. KOAM and KFJX are owned by the same company and appear to share the same digital channel. Only KOAM is broadcast in HD though.

KSNF-DT is only broadcast in SD, don't know if they even have plans to upgrade to HD in the future. Nexstar doesn't seem interested in investing in this market.

I live approximately 14 miles from the KOAM tower and have trouble receiving their digital signal, it comes in at about 10%-20% strength. I am also 12 miles from the KODE tower and rarely ever get 10% strength. I have only seen the KSNF-DT signal on one occassion and it was 10% strength. The KSNF and KODE towers are very close to one another.

I believe KOZJ is on the same tower as KODE, and I receive the PBS digital signal at about 80% strength. I am guessing the KODE and KSNF are still broadcasting at low power, otherwise a lot of people are going to have no signal in 2009!

KSNF-DT is only broadcast in SD, don't know if they even have plans to upgrade to HD in the future. Nexstar doesn't seem interested in investing in this market.


I have heard that Nextar is trying to sell both stations and thus does not want to put any money into new equipment. May be just a rumor though. It still frustrates the hell out of me that I can't subscribe to my distant network feeds through Directv b/c I live in a local tv market even though they are to damn cheap to upgrade their equipment. It won't surprise me if we are watching standard definition ABC and NBC programming broadcast digitally 10 years from now!

I have heard that Nextar is trying to sell both stations and thus does not want to put any money into new equipment. May be just a rumor though. It still frustrates the hell out of me that I can't subscribe to my distant network feeds through Directv b/c I live in a local tv market even though they are to damn cheap to upgrade their equipment. It won't surprise me if we are watching standard definition ABC and NBC programming broadcast digitally 10 years from now!
Perry Sook, the CEO of Nexstar, regularly tells investors on quarterly conference calls that they are always looking to "monetize non-strategic assets", which I take to mean selling TV stations. In actual practice they haven't sold a single one to date. There is definately a money crunch though. They have to build out the DTV equipment in all of the smaller markets, and it really doesn't cost any less to build a DTV system in a small market. As for being cheap, they have never turned a profit for the stockholders. All of the cash goes to pay interest on debt. You can't pay off over $600 million in debt by selling stations in Fargo and Monroe, LA.

Oh yeah, I hear that bankers have recently become reluctant to lend money to some borrowers. Watch and see what happens in a year when the balloon payment comes due on the 11 % note with deferred interest payments.

TV stations are sold on an "earnings multiple" basis. e.g. I bought this station for 6 x annual net earnings.... or 10 x annual earnings. If the revenue drops, an in a recession, the price of the TV station goes down.

With a company that is leveraged 10:1, it doesn't take a drastic decline in business before the bankers and other financial people pull the plug.

I sold my Nexstar stock at $14 last summer, and it's now selling for just a little above $6.

The NAB lobbyists and the broadcasters are the ones that originally asked for the spectrum so they could do HDTV. They got what they asked for.

The FCC should've forced stations to go full power digital a long time ago. It's getting down to the wire and non-technical people are now buying and connecting digital converters to their old TVs, only to find out they can't view some of their favorite channels. And many of them have no idea how to connect everything so they can jump between the digital converter's tuner and their old analog TV's tuner.

And many of them have no idea how to connect everything so they can jump between the digital converter's tuner and their old analog TV's tuner.
It doesn't help that when they go into Best Buy or Sam's the signs and TV sets scream out: "You need satellite or cable to hook up to your new HDTV" The retailers have no incentive to tell customers that they can get a TV signal OTA.

Broadcasters who are supposed to be the experts on informing and shaping the attitudes of consumers have been strangely silent about this. Of course some of our biggest advertisers are cable and satellite providers.

There just doesn't seem to be anyone with a financial interest in spreading the gospel of free OTA television.

Dish Networks new satellite, launched yesterday, was a failure. It didn't reach correct orbit. See dbstalk.com
This will cause a lot of DishNetowork customers to jump ship to D*.

D* is launcing D11 Monday, which is supposed to eventually carry Springfield HD locals. Assuming they all get on the air at a decent power level and in HD.

Has anyone else watched CBS-HD for college hoops today? On my OTA I have great picture, background sound (crowd noise, players, etc.), but no commentators. On my SD feed through the dish I have commentators?! I don't mind not having Billy Packer... just thought it was odd. Anyone else having this issue?

Dish Networks new satellite, launched yesterday, was a failure. It didn't reach correct orbit. See dbstalk.com
This will cause a lot of DishNetowork customers to jump ship to D*.

D* is launcing D11 Monday, which is supposed to eventually carry Springfield HD locals. Assuming they all get on the air at a decent power level and in HD.

Partially correct, Dish was only leasing the satellite though. There is still hope that they can use onboard fuel to move the sat into it's correct orbit, or a couple of other things might be possible, but things are not looking good. It's been a really bad year for private satellite launches in the past year.

Has anyone else watched CBS-HD for college hoops today? On my OTA I have great picture, background sound (crowd noise, players, etc.), but no commentators. On my SD feed through the dish I have commentators?! I don't mind not having Billy Packer... just thought it was odd. Anyone else having this issue?
It sounds like a problem with dolby AC3 setup. Your dolby decoder should switch back and forth between 5.1 and 2 channel stereo. It sounds like you were getting left surround and right surround, but no center channel.

Many commercials are in 2 channel stereo, and your dolby decoder should follow the station's encoder in switching modes. Could it be that you have 2 speakers attached to a surround system and thus no center channel?

I guess the first question is: are you using the sound system built into your TV set, or an external surround system?

... It sounds like you were getting left surround and right surround, but no center channel.rhoops, your sister station (if you claim it), KNWA-DT still has screwed up audio on their local news. The talking heads sound like they're in a well and most of the audio comes out of the right speaker. The audio level for news is also way below other area stations. They have an excellent newscast, but I cannot watch it because of the terrible sound.

This has been going on for over a year now.

Partially correct, Dish was only leasing the satellite though...Owned or leased really doesn't matter to the dish subscriber. Bottom line is, it's not likely the new HD channels Dish planned to add soon are gonna happen.

It sounds like a problem with dolby AC3 setup. Your dolby decoder should switch back and forth between 5.1 and 2 channel stereo. It sounds like you were getting left surround and right surround, but no center channel.

Many commercials are in 2 channel stereo, and your dolby decoder should follow the station's encoder in switching modes. Could it be that you have 2 speakers attached to a surround system and thus no center channel?

I guess the first question is: are you using the sound system built into your TV set, or an external surround system?

I've got an Athena Micro 5.1 system, driven by a Pioneer VSX-917. I'm getting my CBS-HD using the tuner built into my Directv box (H20)... no problem with anything but the announcers in the games. Commercials are fine. The rerun of last years national title game is fine as of noon. I didn't really pay attention to the lights on the front of the receiver since its in a cabinet. I'll report back during the Big 10 game this afternoon.

Tell me more about these PBS feeds! Digital Ku? D/L Frequncy? Symbol rate? FEC?

RHoops-

Please accept my apologies, I typed AMC 4 - it is in fact the AMC 3 satellite, at 87 degrees west. Follow this link for all the information you need, which is at the bottom of the list....

http://www.lyngsat.com/amc3.html

Jim Thomas
Milliken, Colorado

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/programming/broadcast-market.php?dma_name[]=Springfield%2C+MO no extra channels of KOLR10 for March Madness or others

Acording to a D* Advanced Service Rep. I spoke with last weekend Springfield, MO is not scheduled for HD locals anytime in the forseeable future. She had a list of Markets that would be getting local HD feeds through this new satellite launch and we aren't one of them.

It just amazes me that they haven't placed Springfield on a higher priority, we have pretty much the highest penetration of satellite in the country. Direct should have learned about losing out in our market after taking so long to bring sd locals. I do hope that their launch doesn't have any issues unlike the sat that Dish was going to lease. There is still hope that the satellite can make it into it's useful orbit, if not, I would expect Dish to begin the MPEG-4 transition sooner than planned.

It just amazes me that they haven't placed Springfield on a higher priorityNot me.

Springfield doesn't even have all of its digital stations broadcasting in HD/full power yet. It's pretty much still podunk in terms of digital TV broadcasting, compared to other markets. Even in Fayetteville, Ark., a much smaller market, all of their stations are broadcasting full power digital & HD, with some HD timeshifting capability.

We were on their list for fall 2006, which would have been off of Spaceway 2, if you read the press releases you would have thought that there would have been 3 of the 4 networks in HD at that time, that didn't happen, and we got bumped. I'd say a combination of their obvious inability to come to any agreement in any HD market with NEXSTAR and there being only one other HD channel at this time might have something to do with it. That and the fact that they are aggressively adding CW and other networks to the HD LIL's they are already serving.

... no extra channels of KOLR10 for March Madness or othersNeither KOLR-DT or KSFX-DT do sub channels. They do full bandwidth, high quality HD.

I have heard that Nextar is trying to sell both stations and thus does not want to put any money into new equipment.
I think Nexstar is upgrading all their stations to the same level. They're just doing the cash cows first, the less income producing stations (i.e. Alabama, Montana, etc.) will be done last.
They can still sell their stations if they can find a buyer, they'd just add the build-out to the selling price (tho it's more of a buyers market for TV stations right now, rather than a sellers market).

D* is launcing D11 Monday..
D11 launch rescheduled for tomorrow, March 19, 5:48 CDT.

http://www.sea-launch.com/mission_directv-11/mission_album/page8/images/DSC3435.jpg
(http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=92610&page=69)

arxaw , Do You have a UPS Power back up on Your Tuner & pre amp ? This may filter some of the Electrical interference...

KSFX News at 7am
Have you people checked it out?
Rob the former Weekend Sports Guy is the Anchor of it.

I saw some problems on CBS last night during the college basketball tournament. I'm not sure if it was CBS, KOLR10, DirecTV, or my DVR. I was watching the DirecTV local feed recorded on my HR21. 3-4 times during the night the video paused and the audio continued to play. The screen was basically stuck on a certain frame, but the audio played like there was nothing wrong. I can't remember at exactly which points this occurred, but it happened once during a commercial and 2-3 times during the games. Fast forwarding and rewinding or stopping and restarting the recording did not make any difference.

Did anyone else see this happen last night?

I saw some problems on CBS last night during the college basketball tournament. I'm not sure if it was CBS, KOLR10, DirecTV, or my DVR. I was watching the DirecTV local feed recorded on my HR21. 3-4 times during the night the video paused and the audio continued to play. The screen was basically stuck on a certain frame, but the audio played like there was nothing wrong. I can't remember at exactly which points this occurred, but it happened once during a commercial and 2-3 times during the games. Fast forwarding and rewinding or stopping and restarting the recording did not make any difference.

Did anyone else see this happen last night?
I get audio dropouts everyday on CBS HD (ota). My signal strength on my TV is usually 90-98% and I still get audio dropouts during ALL HD broadcasts on CBS.
Maybe things will improve when they go back to channel 10 next year.

Dropouts may actually get worse when KOLR-DT moves back to VHF ch 10. I've lived in two areas with VHF digitals, and all 3 of the digital VHF channels I could/can receive suffer from annoying weather related and home electrical interference dropouts.

Hopefully, KOLR-DT won't have this problem, but I'm not very optimistic about their move to VHF.

I am considering a possible move from West Plains to Joplin. Can someone let me know what network digital stations you are able to get in good in Joplin? Also, do these stations come from Springfield?

I am considering a possible move from West Plains to Joplin. Can someone let me know what network digital stations you are able to get in good in Joplin? Also, do these stations come from Springfield?
Joplin / Pittsburg, KS is it's own market and they don't get the Springfield stations, although KOZJ is a satellite of KOZK (PBS). I don't know the details, but some stations aren't full power and some aren't HD. That will necessarily change before next February.

In a nutshell, the OTA DTV situation in Joplin is pretty uh, "weak" right now.

I am considering a possible move from West Plains to Joplin. Can someone let me know what network digital stations you are able to get in good in Joplin? Also, do these stations come from Springfield?
I live within about 3 miles of the ABC, NBC, and PBS digital stations
all of which are practically in line with my OTA combination UHF/
VHF yagi rooftop antenna. Pittsburg's CBS digital station is about
16 miles in the same direction. The strength meter on my Dish 211
box registers in the mid 80's for ABC, 100 percent for both NBC
and PBS, and in the mid 60's to mid 70's for CBS's digital/HD. The
latter signal varies from day to day with its primary and Fox
subchannel programming. Lots of audio and video dropouts and
currently off the air for several days.

RHoops-

Please accept my apologies, I typed AMC 4 - it is in fact the AMC 3 satellite, at 87 degrees west. Follow this link for all the information you need, which is at the bottom of the list....

http://www.lyngsat.com/amc3.html

Jim Thomas
Milliken, Colorado

I finally got around to tuning in the PBS feeds on satellite. If you happen to have a DVB satellite receiver with a Ku band LNB, it's quite a treasure trove. 9 channels in the mux feed.

AMC 3 at 87 deg west.

12,180 Mhz Vertical Ku
Symbol Rate 30.0000
FEC 3/4

I live within about 3 miles of the ABC, NBC, and PBS digital stations
all of which are practically in line with my OTA combination UHF/
VHF yagi rooftop antenna. Pittsburg's CBS digital station is about
16 miles in the same direction. The strength meter on my Dish 211
box registers in the mid 80's for ABC, 100 percent for both NBC
and PBS, and in the mid 60's to mid 70's for CBS's digital/HD. The
latter signal varies from day to day with its primary and Fox
subchannel programming. Lots of audio and video dropouts and
currently off the air for several days.Other than CBS & PBS, are any other stations in the Joplin market HD yet?

Other than CBS & PBS, are any other stations in the Joplin market HD yet?

Negative. And little hope of any additional local HD. Even
the fact that digital versions of their stations are
available is never mentioned except on station ID's.

Are you sure that ABC and NBC in Joplin are not transmitting in HD? I seen the list of stations in Joplin and these are listed as the digital channels for ABC and NBC.

43 KODE-DT Joplin power:1000kW;tower:932'in western Joplin
KODE-TV's digital channel
46 KSNF-DT Joplin power:1000kW;tower:698'2 miles W of Joplin
KSNF's digital channel

Digital does not equal HD.

Digital can be any digital video, regardless of resolution.

HD implies a resolution of 1280x720 or 1920x1080.

- Trip

I had emailed Jeff Hadley at KODE in February, just dug up his reply.

"ksnf & kode are transmitting low power sdi however kode should be on the air with full power hd sometime later this year, but ksnf will be on full power hd in feburary 2009.
thanks
jeff hadley"

I had emailed Jeff Hadley at KODE in February, just dug up his reply.

"ksnf & kode are transmitting low power sd

According to the FCC lookup site, currently:
KSNF-DT: only 1.65kW ERP
KODE-DT: only 1.46kW ERP

Both are transmitting at shorter antenna heights than what is proposed when they go full power.

Any idea what this rectangular box is in the lower left of the screen?
It kept appearing and disappearing during last night's 9PM news...

http://i25.tinypic.com/mceu5e.jpg

http://i26.tinypic.com/ic910g.jpg

[CENTER]Any idea what this rectangular box is in the lower left of the screen?
It kept appearing and disappearing during last night's 9PM news...


It looks like the computer that generates the strorm warning graphic locked up. I can't explain who the operator left it on the air in that condition.

Do you think maybe it was supposed to be an ad? It would stay there a while, then go away, and be replaced by some rotating ad. Then, it would come back later.

Do you think maybe it was supposed to be an ad? It would stay there a while, then go away, and be replaced by some rotating ad. Then, it would come back later.
That's a distinct possibility. In the Newsticker, various clients cycle through every 30 seconds. Perhaps one of the graphics was bad.

Hi guys. I've read your posts for a long time, just never posted. I've learned a lot.

There's a possibility I might be moving to Ozark from Springfield in the near future and am wanting to change things up a little bit at my next house. Currently I have Mediacom with HD and DVR, but I would like to change to satellite when I move. It appears Directv has the most HD offerings. What I don't like though is the need to have two cable runs to each DVR. Also, I'd like to be able to record OTA. Do the Directv HD DVR's have an OTA tuner?

Also, I'd either like to hire someone to run the extra cables required or do it myself. It's probably to difficult for me to handle. Any suggestions on installers? I want a clean install for sure.

Finally, is Directv the way to go, or should I look more into Dish?

Thanks for any and all replies. I appreciate it.

By far, DirecTV has the most HD programming, with much more on the way. Dish is pretty much max'd out right now WRT HD, and their latest HD satellite launch was a failure. DirecTV just successfully launched another HD sat and they should be adding more HD channels to it within a couple of months.

Downside to DirecTV: They recently omitted the OTA tuners in their newest HD DVRs, which I think was pretty stupid of them. You can preorder an OTA Tuner add-on module for $60-$100 at solidsignal dot com and should be available very soon.

Even if you can pick them up OTA, you will not be able to record KSPR-DT in HD, as their OTA broadcasts are only standard def right now.

Raceman,
Directv has a new multiswitch, the SWM-8, that allows two tuners to work from only one cable run. It was being used exclusively in multi-unit dwellings but has recently become available at various online retailers. It is expensive, but allows for one cable to feed up to 8 tuners through the use of splitters, just like cable TV. The cheapest way to get one is by searching for a thread titled "i can get swm8's" over at dbstalk.com, there is an installer shipping them cheaper than anyone else, and I don't believe anyone has had a problem.
As far as the OTA tuners, they did remove them from the HR21 and designed an add on that isn't being shipped yet. A coworker of mine had an install last week, and I told her to request an HR20, and explain the need for OTA, she had to escalate the call, but she did indeed get an HR20. Rumor has it they have stockpiled the now discontinued HR20 for areas that are not served by HD LiL's. Good luck.

Thank you both for the information. I'm definitely spoiled right now being able to watch KSPR in HD. Lost is my favorite show.

I'll do a little more research on the OTA tuner add-on and the SWM-8 multiswitch now that I now what to look for.

It sounds like Directv is the way to go with all the HD programming.

rhoops, any update on KSPR-DT's upgrade?

rhoops, any update on KSPR-DT's upgrade?
I have no new information at all. I might drive out the the transmitter site sometime and see what's there. Of course if they have the transmission line in town it would be in a warehouse, since it is so very valuable.

Okay, who was the IDIOT who authorized this crap? If I wanted to watch the freaking teleauction I'd go to 21.1, but on 21.2? No thank you!

C'mon I want my PBS-HD not PBS-begging-for-money-in-SD-simulcast-on-the-hd-channel.

Who else wants to send an irate email to Arlen Diamond?

That's OK KSPR, I didn't want to watch the NBA in HD today anyway. This has to be the worst run TV station in the country. Unreal. Great bunch of guys. Asleep at the switch again. Who would have guessed.

http://www.sbj.net/weekly_article.asp?aID=75768392.447442.1050387.8162855.95529 94.239&aID2=80790
Maybe they are going to add a digital Channel like RTN Affliate,ACCUWEATHER Channel,or Local Sports or News Channel.

This evening we will be replacing some cheesy 8-bit frame synchronizers that were in use when we upconverted SD. We are putting in higher-resolution 12 bit frame synch's.

It should be a noticable improvement, particularly when there is text on screen, like the newsticker, or the weather bug.

In the past the analog signal actually looked better than upconverted SD on DTV.

rhoops, I just bought a samsung hd ota tuner. The OTA guide is showing listings for 27-1, but has 'no information' for 10-1. Any idea what the problem might be?

By the way, please express my appreciation to the management of channels 10 & 27 for a great hd / dolby 5.1 product. (hint, hint ky3 ;>)

rhoops, I just bought a samsung hd ota tuner. The OTA guide is showing listings for 27-1, but has 'no information' for 10-1. Any idea what the problem might be?

By the way, please express my appreciation to the management of channels 10 & 27 for a great hd / dolby 5.1 product. (hint, hint ky3 ;>)

I use a Samsung too. Sometimes turning it off then back on will bring re-populate the guide.

I use a Samsung too. Sometimes turning it off then back on will bring re-populate the guide.rhoops, I get program title info for KOLR-DT & KSFX-DT. But your sistah stations KNWA-DT and KFTA-DT have no program info shown in the PSIP guide. Isn't that a violation of FCC rules?

Walmart, BestBuy and others fined for dumping analog TVs on the market, without warning customers of their impending obsolescence. Article at:
http://www.betanews.com/article/FCC_issues_6_million_in_DTV_fines_to_WalMart_others/1207934116

rhoops, I get program title info for KOLR-DT & KSFX-DT. But your sistah stations KNWA-DT and KFTA-DT have no program info shown in the PSIP guide. Isn't that a violation of FCC rules?
It's not entirely clear to me which elements of PSIP are mandatory and which are optional. You tell me....
http://www.atsc.org/news_information/newsletter/ATSC_Newsletter_17.pdf

I use a Samsung too. Sometimes turning it off then back on will bring re-populate the guide.

After purchasing this unit last Sat., this morning, for the first time, the guide is working. Oh well...

What's up with the signal drops on 10-1? Usually my signal strength is 98%, but right now it's averaging 72% with drops into the teens and 20's, and the picture breaks up. 27-1 is usually also 98% and is running in the 50's today. 33-1 is a steady 38% and no dropouts.

KOLR-DT 10-1 and KSFX-DT 27-1 are both coming in @100% for me right now.
I'm ~71mi SE of the transmitters in NW Arkansas.

I live in Ava and my 10-1 is alright, but my 27-1 started having reception issues about a week ago - the same signal going in and out issues I was having from about November through February (when it cleared itself back up).

Did something change regarding 27-1's transmission last week?

- Nuke

My signal was back to normal last night. It seems like cold weather affects it, although last week wasn't that cold.

NW, make sure none of your antenna connectors are getting water in them. If in doubt, replace them all and cover them with silicone caulk.

NW, make sure none of your antenna connectors are getting water in them. If in doubt, replace them all and cover them with silicone caulk.

Thanks for the suggestion, arxaw. I'll take a look. Question though: If water in the connectors is the problem, wouldn't it affect all of my OTA and not just 27-1?

- Nuke

A bad connector can impact reception in temp extremes or if it gets wet. And it may sometimes affect reception of only some, but not all channels.

According to those in the know, the transmitter that will be shipped to KSPR is currently on display at the NAB Show in Las Vegas,www.nabshow.com it will be shipped back to the manufacturer and teched before being shipped to KSPR, they still plan on meeting the August deadline.

I currently live in Springfield west of Kansas Expressway off Kearney. Before that, I lived off of North Grant. While on Grant, I could pick up all digital channels except KSPR nearly 100% all the time. Analog signals were hit and miss. Now that I have moved off of Kearney, my digital strength has dropped to 50% at best and that doesn't happen very often and the analog signals are hit and miss still. I have a Terk TV-5 low profile antenna and Toshiba SD TV.
I have talked with an engineer at KY3 and he told me to get an outdoor UHF antenna (I believe that's what he said) that can be purchased at RadioShack for under $50 and will pick up digital much better. I know that North Grant his higher in elevation so I got better reception, but I can't figure out why my reception dropped so badly just moving a mile and a half away.
Any thoughts and suggestions on how to get a better signal with my Terk, or a better antenna to go with? Indoor or Out is fine.

Thanks all.

You can pay a lot less, but you can't get much worse than a terk antenna. They are overpriced and sold by big box stores for their obscene profit margin. People buy them because they don't look like antennas. That's probably why they don't work well, either.

A good inexpensive antenna that should work well for the Springfield stations is the Channel Master CM 4221 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm). It is designed as a UHF antenna, but will work for VHF ch 10, if not too far from the transmitters. KOLR-DT will be moving back to ch 10 early next year. It's about 24 bucks, plus shipping.

Has anyone used this one or is using it in town? How does it work in your location? I am game for just about anything that gives us 70-80% or better all the time. The engineer also told me that using an amplifier can or does degrade my signal. Is this generally true or does it depend on the antenna? If I get the one you recommended, would I need one or would it depend on how the stations come in once I install it?

Typically, a preamp isn't needed for urban/suburban reception, and will often make reception worse, not better, due to signal distortion and overload. Exceptions may be coax runs of over ~150' or an antenna split to 4 or 5 TVs.

Has anyone used this one or is using it in town? How does it work in your location? I am game for just about anything that gives us 70-80% or better all the time. The engineer also told me that using an amplifier can or does degrade my signal. Is this generally true or does it depend on the antenna? If I get the one you recommended, would I need one or would it depend on how the stations come in once I install it?
Any outdoor UHF antenna will work better than just about any indoor antenna.

I recommend the one Radio Shack sells for about $30. I think it's the model U-75. It doesn't need to be above the trees, but 5 or 10 feet above the roof will work fine. Indoor antennas are also subject to signal fluctuation as people move around the room. Outdoor antennas are more stable.

Pre-amps can cause problems with digital signals by introducing distortion.

I agree with arxaw that Terk products are overpriced junk. Also there is nothing special about an antenna that makes it "digital" or "HDTV". A good UHF antenna designed in 1955 would work just fine with todays TV.

...I recommend the one Radio Shack sells for about $30. I think it's the model U-75. rhoops, I believe it's the U-75R, which may or may not be online anymore but still in brick & mortar stores.
http://i30.tinypic.com/245ise1.jpg

It's a great UHF antenna for urban/suburban reception but I haven't seen any VHF test results for that antenna. Have you seen it work OK for VHF channel 10?

thanks

Have you seen it work OK for VHF channel 10?

That's the antenna I use at home, but I haven't tried it on analog. I've seen a 1 foot piece of wire on the back of the set work on channel 10. The proverbial "wet noodle" seems to do fine here in Springfield.

Last year one of my co-workers had a Dish Network VIP receiver when the software wasn't "mature". He first tried a Terk under-eve antanna, then a huge array on top of the house. It turns out that receiver was easily overloaded and he needed less signal. Now he uses the Radio Shack U-75R on a 5 foot pole mounted to his chimney. After spending several hundred dollars on expensive antennas, this is what worked.

What are some good local TV shops here in town? I'm not a big fan of Big Box so anyone that knows their stuff in town would be great.

Thanks

What are some good local TV shops here in town? I'm not a big fan of Big Box so anyone that knows their stuff in town would be great.

Thanks
That's been asked here before with no definitive answer. The best suggestion I've heard is to contact Dish and Direct TV installers. I don't know of any old-style TV shops.

That's the antenna I use at home, but I haven't tried it on analog. I've seen a 1 foot piece of wire on the back of the set work on channel 10. The proverbial "wet noodle" seems to do fine here in Springfield.rhoops,
Do you have an analog tuner you could try getting ch 10 with your U-75R? The reason I ask is, people in NWA using other (larger) UHF-only yagis have had no luck at all receiving VHFs 7, 9, 10, 12 & 13 very well. And I've seen other threads where the U-75R proved very disappointing for VHF reception.

So It would be good to know if this inexpensive antenna does, in fact, work well for channel 10.

rhoops,
Do you have an analog tuner you could try getting ch 10 with your U-75R? The reason I ask is, people in NWA using other (larger) UHF-only yagis have had no luck at all receiving VHFs 7, 9, 10, 12 & 13 very well. And I've seen other threads where the U-75R proved very disappointing for VHF reception.

So It would be good to know if this inexpensive antenna does, in fact, work well for channel 10.
I do have an analog receiver I could put on the antenna, but it doesn't have a signal strenth indicator. At my home I can stand on the rooftop and actually see the KOLR-10 tower so it wouldn't prove anything. There is a big difference between working within 30 miles and what you are dealing with. At 70 miles I'd think you'd need a resonant 5 to 10 element yagi. As we mention often, no amount of antenna gain will help as much as getting the antenna high and clear of obstructions.

For truly "local" reception 20-30 miles from the transmitter, it doesn't matter if the signal is 10 db or more below what a VHF antenna would provide. As Mary Poppins says: "enough is as good as a feast".

I'd expect the U-75 R to have a negative gain with respect to a resonant dipole at channel 10.

So. Do you think the U-075R will work for iT_grunt, including ch 10 next year?

... At 70 miles I'd think you'd need a resonant 5 to 10 element yagi...Not really. I get channel 10 analog perfectly using a CM 4228 8-bay bowtie antenna + CM 7777 V/U preamp. At ~70+ mi away. A friend in Eureka, about 4 mi closer, gets KOLR 10 analog with a 4-bay bowtie + 7777 preamp. Indoors.

I live in Mt. Vernon and I just set up my DTV converter this weekend.
I just want to make sure that I am receiving all that I can.
I am hooked up to an antenna (shared by all tenants in the building who don't have cable. I'm not sure how many of the 18 occupants don't have cable) on top of the 3-story apartment building that I live in.

On digital I get 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 10.1, 21.1, 21.2, 21.3, and 27.1 from Springfield.
From Joplin/Pittsburg KS I have 7.1, 7.2 (14), 26.1, 26.2, 26.3.

On analog I've always been able to get 3, 10, 21, 27, and 33 from Springfield.
From the Joplin/Pittsburg KS 7, 12, occasionally 14, 16, 26, and occasionally 47 (ion).

Right now I'm dissapointed that I can't receive an ABC affiliate.

I switch back to analog to watch KSPR 33's news at 10 since I really like their new format.

Will I gain 31 (either analog or digital) and 33 (digital) when I move to Springfield this summer? I'll either be 9 miles west of the Drury/OTC area along 266 or living right in the Drury nieghborhood, depending upon living arrangements.

A lot of my family is in the KC area and I think all of their channels are now broadcasting in digital. Springfield and Joplin seem to be a bit behind. :-(
Thanks.

Spgfld/Jop are way behind. It's ridiculous KSPR-DT didn't even get on the air before converters went on sale. Broadcasters asked for and have known about this conversion for years and years.

Right now I'm dissapointed that I can't receive an ABC affiliate.

I switch back to analog to watch KSPR 33's news at 10 since I really like their new format.
Currently KSPR-DT is low power and standard definition broadcasting from their studio on St. Louis street.

Right now the only way to get KSPR HDTV is via Mediacom cable (they pick it up by fiber). They plan to have full power HDTV on the air sometime in August.

KWBM, Channel 31 Harrison, did not get a second channel assigned for DTV. They will have to flash cut to DTV on channel 31 after Feb 2009. I am not sure what will happen to their translators, but anything above channel 51 will have to go off the air. I think some low power translators can remain analog.

Hey,
Is there a good place to fine user manuals to antennas? A co-worker gave me an antenna to try out and it didn't come with any paperwork. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

google (http://google.com) antenna brand & model # user manual

...KWBM, Channel 31 Harrison, did not get a second channel assigned for DTV. They will have to flash cut to DTV on channel 31 after Feb 2009.I heard KWBM (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101232897&formid=387&fac_num=78314) plans to flash cut to DTV before 2/17/09. Time will tell.

KPBI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KWFT), the Equity station in Eureka Springs, also plans to flash cut before the deadline and they have occasional crawls on the screen instructing viewers about the change.

I heard KWBM (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101232897&formid=387&fac_num=78314) plans to flash cut to DTV before 2/17/09. Time will tell.

KPBI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KWFT), the Equity station in Eureka Springs, also plans to flash cut before the deadline and they have occasional crawls on the screen instructing viewers about the change.
That makes sense. There aren't enough factory techs to set up all those transmitters the same day. The term flash cut is a bit misleading. Even with lots of earlier preparation it will still take most of a day to bring up a new transmitter, and a few days before and after to fine tune things.

google (http://google.com) antenna brand & model # user manual

I have tried that but no matter what combination of search terms i use, it comes up with purchase pages from different retailers. Any other thoughts? Magnavox doesn't seem to have any archived/dicontinued items page that i can find.

What's the model# of the Magnavox antenna?
What are you needing to know about it?

Its the Mant 900. I want to make sure that everything I will need is in there and any recommendations on assembly and placement.

What do you guys use to set yours up? I know I would need a pole which is the easy part. Where, how,and what other parts I would need to place it on my roof is the big thing. Are there any "rules" or regulations (codes) regarding do's and dont's on placement of antennas in Springfield?

Cities and/or HOAs/POAs cannot regulate or even require permits for any normal consumer OTA antenna installations or any satellite dishes smaller than 1 meter, per FCC rules. Exceptions are Historic Districts.

For aiming, enter your complete address at either:
http://www.antennaweb.org
http://tvfool.com

You need a mast, U-bolts (which usually come with the antenna) and a compass for aiming. A connecting transformer, often called a "balun" is also needed to connect the coax to the antenna. That is usually included with the antenna, too. You'll need a compass for aiming the antenna, per the compass directions from the sites above.

When buying coax, get RG6, never RG59. RG6 is slightly thicker gauge and carries higher frequency TV channels better than 59. Many satellite dealers will sell you a custom length with good watertight compression connectors on the ends.

Gentlemen,
Thanks for all of the information you have passed along.
I just installed a converter box (RCA) in the "test" room for my folks. I was wondering why we weren't receiving KSPR after a couple of scans. Looks like I'll wait to install the Magnavox or Zenith converter box in the living room until August. I'll keep checking in and see how the tower comes along in Fordland.

I come down to Bolivar from KC to help out with "techie" stuff as mom calls it.

She is very pleased with the picture of KY3, KOLR, KSFX, and the PBS station/subs.

I used to work at KSPR and I'm not at all surprised by their mickey mouse handling of digital switch.

I suppose I'm glad that they are now owned by the owners of KY3. I'll be looking forward to scanning once again (hopefully) in August.

My folks are very happy that they won't have to subscribe to satellite in the future to get local HD content.

Again, thanks for the great information. Extremely helpful, greatly appreciated.

Skid

Gentlemen,
Thanks for all of the information you have passed along.
I just installed a converter box (RCA) in the "test" room for my folks. I was wondering why we weren't receiving KSPR after a couple of scans. Looks like I'll wait to install the Magnavox or Zenith converter box in the living room until August. I'll keep checking in and see how the tower comes along in Fordland.

I come down to Bolivar from KC to help out with "techie" stuff as mom calls it.

She is very pleased with the picture of KY3, KOLR, KSFX, and the PBS station/subs.

I used to work at KSPR and I'm not at all surprised by their mickey mouse handling of digital switch.

I suppose I'm glad that they are now owned by the owners of KY3. I'll be looking forward to scanning once again (hopefully) in August.

My folks are very happy that they won't have to subscribe to satellite in the future to get local HD content.

Again, thanks for the great information. Extremely helpful, greatly appreciated.

SkidIf you get another box, the Zenith (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3006502&cp=2032057.2032187.2032188.2032199&sr=1&origkw=converter+box&parentPage=family) at Radio Shack & Circuit City has the most sensitive tuner. By comparison, the RCA and MV are the worst. The Zenith will often pick up weak channels the others miss. In particular, the MV has problems with certain VHF channels. KOLR-DT will be moving back to VHF in a few months.

The Zenith also has a metal case, instead of cheesy plastic. The metal case may also help shield it from nearby interference. It is sold at Best Buy under the Insignia brand. Same identical box and considering how long it may be used, definitely worth the 10 extra bucks vs the walmart boxes.

If you get another box, the Zenith (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3006502&cp=2032057.2032187.2032188.2032199&sr=1&origkw=converter+box&parentPage=family) at Radio Shack & Circuit City has the most sensitive tuner. By comparison, the RCA and MV are the worst. The Zenith will often pick up weak channels the others miss. In particular, the MV has problems with certain VHF channels. KOLR-DT will be moving back to VHF in a few months.

The Zenith also has a metal case, instead of cheesy plastic. The metal case may also help shield it from nearby interference. It is sold at Best Buy under the Insignia brand. Same identical box and considering how long it may be used, definitely worth the 10 extra bucks vs the walmart boxes.

arxaw,
Thanks for the tip! We went to exchange the other RCA box today at Wally. I was looking for the MV, but they were out. I was just going to order it ship-to-store right now. Glad I checked out the thread before, and you got to post. I, along with my folks appreciate it.

Take care,
Skid

I've been tracking the stock price for EMDA (Equity Media) the company that owns KWBM, Harrison. They program all or most of their stations from a facility in Little Rock. Many of their stations are low power, and stand to lose out in the digital transition.

Their stock price has dipped from above $5 / share in 2006 to around $ 0.80 / share today. There was quite a dip in stock price around April 1.

At this point it doesn't look like Equity's business model can stay afloat after the digital transition. That doesn't mean KWBM will go dark, because that almost never happens with established full power TV stations. It does mean that KWBM, like KSPR, will be looking for a sugar daddy to adopt them.

I just can't imagine that Equity Media can come up with the cash to convert ANY of it's stations to digital. There is also no real studio for KWBM, just a satellite receiver to pick up the programming from Little Rock and put it on the air.

Like many homeowners facing foreclosure, KWBM's owners will probably have to sell it in order to save it.

I just wouldn't expect to see KWBM-DT to hit the air anytime soon. If it does, it will likely be under new ownership.

Equity is running crawls on KPBI, Eureka Springs, saying they will convert ch 34 to digital before the transition. I don't think they'll go under and you will see a ton of multicasting on Equity DT stations.

Wow! The audio is whacked. Total distortion in the surrounds, with nothing but out of phase garbage in the fronts. It's the same on the 5.1 mix. KYTV in Springfield is showing the same game, and it's fine. Isn't KNWA supposedly doing a pass-through of network HD content? Amazing how low broadcast standards have fallen.

Edit: Strange, when the network feed goes to commercial, it's clean. Back to the game, and it's total distortion in the surrounds again. I'd guess the truck's Dolby encoder is what's causing it, except KYTV is fine.

KNWA's decoder/encoder settings are wrong.

Also, the audio on their local news has been screwed up for over a year. Little or no center channel sound.

KNWA's decoder/encoder settings are wrong.

Also, the audio on their local news has been screwed up for over a year. Little or no center channel sound.

WOW! How can they possibly let it get that bad. Do they even monitor their off-air signal? I've heard the newscasts, but what they were doing today I find simply amazing. Luckily, I wasn't actively watching the game, I just happened to catch it by accident, but for someone who actually tried to watch it it must have been maddening.

Michael

I watch WNBC-DT or (occasionally) KYTV-DT

Equity is running crawls on KPBI, Eureka Springs, saying they will convert ch 34 to digital before the transition. I don't think they'll go under and you will see a ton of multicasting on Equity DT stations.
I hope they survive financially. They had an very innovative business model, with all those LPTV stations, all programmed from Little Rock. RTN, MyNetwork and UniVision. If they make it through the next 18 months they will do fine, but with a stock price of $ 0.80 / share, Wall Street is betting they won't make it.

Henry Luken, Equity's largest shareholder, has resigned from the Board of Directors, and as CEO and President. I see that as a sign that things are worse than I expected.

...They had an very innovative business model, with all those LPTV stations, all programmed from Little Rock....Their centrally located MCO operations business model seems to be catching on. Gannett is following their lead [article (http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/article.aspx?aID=105264.70982.117402&cID=e)] and other media companies will likely do the same. MCO doesn't sound like a very secure job position any more, unless you live in a big city where your station's parent company will run things.

So, Equity got some things right. If they fail, it will be because they don't have any programming worth watching....

Their centrally located MCO operations business model seems to be catching on. Gannett is following their lead [article (http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/article.aspx?aID=105264.70982.117402&cID=e)] and other media companies will likely do the same. MCO doesn't sound like a very secure job position any more, unless you live in a big city where your station's parent company will run things.

So, Equity got some things right. If they fail, it will be because they don't have any programming worth watching....
Yeah, the call that "Hubbing" in the business. Nexstar has talked about operating the Joplin stations out of Springfield, but they are distracted by the cost of DTV. It's really hard to show a return on the additional equipment needed.

If Equity could wave a wand and have all their transmitters opeate DTV and still have any money left at all they could survive. Currently they distribute programming via digital satellite and get 15-20 channels on a transponder. I think they have most of their programming on two transponders. HDTV is out of the question since you could get, at most, two signals per transponder.

In any case we'll know the answer in a year or so. Perhaps they have a plan to buy up used low power transmitters at a reasonable price. After all there are lots of stations that ran LP DTV for a while before going full power.

It can't be a good sign that Henry Luken has stepped down. Here's a news item from a few days before he stepped down.

---
April 11, 2008

Two officers of cash-strapped Equity Media Holdings Corp. are relieving the company of five of its Spanish-language low-power and Class A television stations in southwest Florida.

The $8 million sale of the stations to Luken Communications LLC, owned by Equity Media boss Henry G. Luken III and station group CEO Thomas M. Arnost, complies with the asset sale requirements of Equity Media’s current loan, the company said.

April 8, the company announced it had hired Thomas Weisel Partners, a San Francisco-based investment bank, to review and evaluate the company’s strategic options. The company’s stock price, above $5 per share in April 2007, fell through $3 in February and March to just 60 cents per share April 4.

Owning television stations in 41 markets as well as Retro Television Network, Equity Media continues “to do business as normal while the company explores alternative financing,” it said in a statement.

The five stations, WUVF-CA, WLZE-LP, WBSP-CA, WEVU-CA and WTLE-LP, are TeleFutura or Univision affiliates. Univision Communications owns both networks as well 8 percent of Equity Media. Equity Media is the second-largest Univision and TeleFutura affiliate.

Well, they have no choice but to change KPBI in Eureka to digital. It's one of their full power stations. Of course, going out of business would solve that problem.

I think KPBI would get bought out since it serves the NWA area. Maybe Nexstar will buy it so people in NWA can watch FOX. They sure can't receive Nexstar's KFTA-DT, which doesn't reach near the number of viewers it's supposed to.

Maybe Nexstar will buy it so people in NWA can watch FOX.
Fat Chance! Nexstar is struggling to complete the DTV buildout and keep the bankers satisfied. If it wasn't for the cash cows in Springfield and Little Rock, they would have gone under some time ago.

They keep talking about "monetizing non-strategic assets", which means selling lesser TV stations, but so far they have never sold one. I understand there are 3 or 4 deals in the works, but in this business you need to be very careful to "qualify" the buyer. In other words the people wanting to buy don't really have any more money than the people trying to sell.

All of them are playing with other people's money.

arxaw, I did not know Eureka had a Tv station ? They did have a low power 3,000 Watts FM at one time with a Broadcast School.. The Owner had lease program for radio stations that wanted to lease Broadcast Equipment. That office was in Oklahoma. He loved Eureka so put School in Ark.

Does anyone know if Springfield receives any TVGOS (TV Guide On Screen) service? I'm actually not totally sure what it is, hard to find a clear answer, but it seems like it's digitally broadcast program guide info. I found on another forum someone mention something about it being broadcast by their local PBS station.

I'm asking because I'm really interested in the new EchoStar TR-50 that should be coming out later in the year. It's an OTA DVR and if it turns out to be good and at a good price point I'll be thrilled to ditch Mediacom and my aging TiVo.

Apparently the box get's it program information from TVGOS which is apparently different from the meta-data that each station has on their digital signals. It's supposed to give you a full week in advance, which is more like what other DVR's provide.

You can read about it here:
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-1_1-9840910-67.html

They also mention that eventually you'll probably be able to get program information over the internet, though probably for a price from them. I don't know why they can't make boxes that can connect to the very free TitanTV service, though. EyeTV and other DVR software uses it just fine.

arxaw, I did not know Eureka had a Tv station ? They did have a low power 3,000 Watts FM at one time with a Broadcast School...We have two TV stations (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=&arn=&city=eureka+springs&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9). A low power 10kW religious station, K22HS on ch 22 and a full power 1200kW Equity station, KPBI ch 34. KPBI was the FOX affiliate for the NWA DMA until they lost it to KFTA-DT, 24-1 (HD) and 51-2 (SD).

Even though KPBI's city of license is Eureka Springs, Dish & DirecTV can't offer KPBI to subscribers in Eureka Springs. Instead, they are forced to carry Springfield staions. How screwed up is that?

We also have one 1100 watt radio station, KESA FM (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?state=&call=kesa&city=&arn=&serv=&vac=&freq=0.0&fre2=107.9&facid=&class=&dkt=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=9), 100.9mhz

OK, Thanks for the update...

Hanuman,
My Mitsibushi TV has TV Guide, don't use it much but it is there, the manual said that it receives programming info through the local PBS signal? Seemed odd, but that is what it said.

Does anyone know if Springfield receives any TVGOS (TV Guide On Screen) service? I'm actually not totally sure what it is, hard to find a clear answer, but it seems like it's digitally broadcast program guide info. I found on another forum someone mention something about it being broadcast by their local PBS station.
Gemstar/TV Guide data is carried on the analog PBS channel in most markets. I don't know what will happen after the analog shutoff. I read a press release that TV Guide had signed a deal with CBS for data carriage late last year; I think that might be for future ATSC data transmission.

Gemstar/TV Guide data is carried on the analog PBS channel in most markets. I don't know what will happen after the analog shutoff. I read a press release that TV Guide had signed a deal with CBS for data carriage late last year; I think that might be for future ATSC data transmission.
I don't know CBS plans concerning Gemstar and ATSC, but since 6/01/2003 lines 15 and 16 of the CBS affiliates Vertical Blanking Interval have been reserved for Gemstar, as required by the affiliate's contract.

Presumably that will continue somehow in the ATSC metadata, but I don't know any details.

Interesting. I'd certainly want to make sure I could get the program information via ATSC before buying one of these. It sounds great, but I don't want to be stuck having to program all my recordings manually come February.

If only it had clear QAM support it would be even cooler. Though then that would give me a reason NOT to ditch Mediacom...CURSES!

BTW, has anybody seen the creepy digital switch commercial with the guy walking in the desert and staring creepily at the camera? Weird.

It's very unlikely the TR50 DVR would use something from an NTSC signal for the guide, given NTSC's impending demise soon after release of the DVR. The DVR doesn't even have an analog tuner in it.

Oh, yeah, that's what I mean. The issue is more if Springfield is broadcasting the TVGOS information in ATSC, not so much if the TR-50 can get it over NTSC.

But actually the TR-50 DOES have an analog NTSC tuner (at least according to the CNET article). I guess it's for hooking up to cable and getting analog channels that way as well. Who knows?

I'm mostly excited because it's running the same software as Dish Network's ViP line of DVRs, and though I haven't used them, they've been reviewed very, very well. Plus you can just plus in external usb storage and expand your recording space.

Equity Media stock closed at $ 0.80 Tuesday. It's now selling for $ 0.41.

NASDAQ has informed them that unless their stock price goes above $ 1.00 and stays there they will be delisted.

At this point no equipment supplier would sell them anything since they would be unlikely to be able to pay.

rhoops,

Whatever. No sweat off my remote. :)

I've got a few questions for arxaw (but anyone can chime in). I'm moving to a house on the east side of Springfield this weekend and will hopefully be able to get the local channels in HD. In case you don't remember, I tried to install the CM4228 at my old house that's 1 mile from Missouri State University and had no luck pulling a strong, consistent signal. The DirecTV installers (Premier communications) said they would install the antenna and run the cables for $18 per receiver, of which I have two, which I thought was a pretty good price. Anyways, here are my questions.

1. Does it matter if I install the screen on the CM4228 or not?
2. Do I need an amplifier, and is it difficult to add one later? I'll run about 50 feet of cable to a splitter, which will go 6 feet one way and 25 feet the other way. Both will be connected to an AM21 connected to an HR21.

Here's my antennaweb info:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7145/antennawebiz2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

At that distance from the transmitters, only 2 TVs and the lengths of coax being run, a preamp is not needed and might actually make reception worse. A smaller 4221 would even work well - 1/2 the size of the 4228. But you already have the 4228...

Always leave the screen on the back of the antenna unless you have stations in opposite directions from where you are, which you don't (except KSPR-DT, which is not worth messing with, until they move to Fordland and go HD soon).

Just aim the antenna ~due East and you should be good to go for the full power stations.

Are you getting an HD DVR from DirecTV?

At that distance from the transmitters, only 2 TVs and the lengths of coax being run, a preamp is not needed and might actually make reception worse. A smaller 4221 would even work well - 1/2 the size of the 4228. But you already have the 4228...

Always leave the screen on the back of the antenna unless you have stations in opposite directions from where you are, which you don't (except KSPR-DT, which is not worth messing with, until they move to Fordland and go HD soon).

Just aim the antenna ~due East and you should be good to go for the full power stations.

Are you getting an HD DVR from DirecTV?

Thanks for the help. I'm actually glad I got the 4228 because of the better VHF reception for when KOLR-DT moves to VHF.

I signed up with DirecTV in December and got an HR21 at that time. Since I'm moving, they gave me another HR21 for $99 plus a free AM21. It only extends my contract by 5 months, so I thought it was a good deal. I was planning to get a second HR21 in 2-3 months anyways, and it'll be nice to get all of the cable runs done in one shot.

It'll be nice to finally get the locals in HD. I'm looking forward to the olympics this summer and Survivor and football this fall. Once KSPR gets on board, it'll be even better.

For those interesting Dish announced HD coming to Joplin and Columbia markets this summer, Springfield is yet to be announced???

jliehr, in your other post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13937345&postcount=1820), you said Joplin was on Dish's "proposed" list.
Springfield was put on the proposed list in 2006 and that went nowhere.

jliehr, in your other post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13937345&postcount=1820), you said Joplin was on Dish's "proposed" list.
Springfield was put on the proposed list in 2006 and that went nowhere.


Yep, CES 2006 Springfield was one of Dish's 50 or so markets announced. But, there has been no update since then. The closest we have been is a dot on a map at CES 2008.

CES 2006
http://www.satelliteguys.us/photopost/watermark.php?file=56

CES 2008
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2008/01/dishnet0072008.jpg

Retailer chat from Friday (thanks to Satelliteguys.us)
http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=25042&d=1211559897

Anyone know what the deal is with DirecTV and channel 647-1? It is FSNHD, but 2 nights ago I recorded the Cardinals game but it was just a black recording. Then tonight I was all set to watch the Cards in HD, but it instead had the pay per view movies listed on the channel guide for the channel, and once again when I tune to the channel it is a black screen.

What is the deal?

The DirecTV installer yesterday said that there have been rumors for a couple of months that Springfield locals will be in HD around September.

The DirecTV installer yesterday said that there have been rumors for a couple of months that Springfield locals will be in HD around September.
That is entirely possible. I know they have remotely tunable off-air receivers in the area. A few months ago when KOLR, analog, had some technical problems the D* people called and asked if they could take KOLR-DT for their feed. After I gave permission, a few keystrokes was all it took to switch to the DTV feed. As soon as KSPR-DT goes HDTV they could move very fast on this.

DirecTV's newly lauched satellite for HD locals is in testing mode right now, and it should be up and running by September, at the latest.

They may wait for KSPR to get on the HD bandwagon before adding Springfield. Or leave KSPR-DT behind in the analog world. They have done this in a few other markets where some of the locals didn't have a DT/HD station yet.

All of this makes me wonder if it's worth it to install my CM4228 on the roof or not. The DTV installer said it wasn't on his work order and therefore didn't have the equipment necessary to install it (at least that's what he told me). I told my wife I could just mount it to our deck out back, but she didn't seem as enthused about the idea as I :).

All of this makes me wonder if it's worth it to install my CM4228 on the roof or not. The DTV installer said it wasn't on his work order and therefore didn't have the equipment necessary to install it (at least that's what he told me). I told my wife I could just mount it to our deck out back, but she didn't seem as enthused about the idea as I :).

I would install it because I would still want OTA even if I had locals on satellite. It's great in bad weather, plus gives you another tuner to record from and most likely a better picture.

I would install it because I would still want OTA even if I had locals on satellite. It's great in bad weather, plus gives you another tuner to record from and most likely a better picture.
I second that opinion. You'll get a total of 9 channels OTA, several of which will not be available on satellite like KYTV weather 3-2 and PBS Create 21-3.

There are also several low power digital stations with construction permits, including channel's 11, 15, 35, 39, 41, and 47. Some of them may not be built, but some of them will.

Even the HD will be of better quality. The satellite providers start by receiving the OTA signal, transcoding it for fiber to send it to the uplink, then transcoding to MPEG-4 (compressing) and sending it though the satellite and decoding again in your receiver. Digital compression and error correction are wonderful, but you can never get any higher quality than what they, or you, pick up off the air.

What MRUSS and rhoops said, +1. OTA locals are going to always be more reliable than locals on satellite. And it's a great backup when sat goes off in a storm.

It sounds like your installer was just lazy. All he needed to install a 4228 is a "J" mount pole, like the 38" long DS-3000 on this page (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Satellite/dish_mts.htm). And RG6 coax, of course. He likely had a DS-3000 mount (below) on his truck. That's what the installers here use for most 4228 installs, which is the most popular antenna here.

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Satellite/ds3000.jpg (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Satellite/dish_mts.htm)

Would you guys recommend that mount for my antenna setup? I have the Mant-900 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2466764&cp=) and currently a four foot pole I most likely will use with some sort of mount to extend off of my roof.

I have wondered about using these particular mounts but on the warrenelectronics page, it says it is "Not designed for large antennas." Would my antenna be considered "large" and this mount would not be recommended?

After that, RG6 cable and a way to ground it is all I have left.

Thanks guys.

What MRUSS and rhoops said, +1. OTA locals are going to always be more reliable than locals on satellite. And it's a great backup when sat goes off in a storm.

It sounds like your installer was just lazy. All he needed to install a 4228 is a "J" mount pole, like the 38" long DS-3000 on this page (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Satellite/dish_mts.htm). And RG6 coax, of course. He likely had a DS-3000 mount (below) on his truck. That's what the installers here use for most 4228 installs, which is the most popular antenna here.

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Satellite/ds3000.jpg (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Satellite/dish_mts.htm)

I already have it on this 5-foot mast (http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?search=1805&i=6591805). What should I use to connect it to the roof and do any guy lines, etc. need to be connected as bracing?

Thanks!

Would you guys recommend that mount for my antenna setup? I have the Mant-900 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2466764&cp=) and currently a four foot pole I most likely will use with some sort of mount to extend off of my roof.

I have wondered about using these particular mounts but on the warrenelectronics page, it says it is "Not designed for large antennas." Would my antenna be considered "large" and this mount would not be recommended?

After that, RG6 cable and a way to ground it is all I have left.

Thanks guys.I've never seen the J-mount above used for any OTA antennas around here, except the CM4221 & CM4228. A tripod mount might be more suitable for your antenna. RatShack has them. They also have RG6 coax grounding blocks. The grounding block should be grounded to your home's main electrical power ground source, typically found below the meter box.

I already have it on this 5-foot mast (http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?search=1805&i=6591805). What should I use to connect it to the roof and do any guy lines, etc. need to be connected as bracing?If you already have a mast, a tripod or eave mount should work. You shouldn't need any additional bracing unless you live on a hilltop with a lot of high winds.

What MRUSS and rhoops said, +1. OTA locals are going to always be more reliable than locals on satellite. And it's a great backup when sat goes off in a storm.

It sounds like your installer was just lazy. All he needed to install a 4228 is a "J" mount pole, like the 38" long DS-3000 on this page (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Satellite/dish_mts.htm). And RG6 coax, of course. He likely had a DS-3000 mount (below) on his truck. That's what the installers here use for most 4228 installs, which is the most popular antenna here.

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Satellite/ds3000.jpg (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Satellite/dish_mts.htm)

I think I see where the confusion came in. I already had my antenna on my mast, assuming that the installer would use it. He said he would need to install the mast onto a tripod and said that he had the J-masts, but they wouldn't work with my mast. If I had known, I would've just taken it off of my mast and had him put it on a J-mast. It sucks now that I have to schedule them out again, but I think I'll go ahead and do it rather than waiting around for D* to get the locals in HD. It'll also be a nice backup and be nice to get the extra local channels.

If you already have a mast, a tripod or eave mount should work. You shouldn't need any additional bracing unless you live on a hilltop with a lot of high winds.

I already have this mount (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/3078.htm). I bought it as an attic mount, so I didn't even think of using it on the roof. Would I just screw it into the roof?

I got my Channel Master CM-7000 converter box today. It is one of the few with S-Video as well as composite and RF out.

I ordered it online from solidsignal.com. Net delivered cost after CECB coupon was $49.94

I found the tuner to be very sensitive, with all stations except KSPR coming in full scale and very solid. KSPR was solid, but less than full scale. The remote is comfortable to hold and easy to use, with the labeling readable even with middle-aged eyes. The remote can control audio levels on both the RF and audio (RCA) jacks.

On signals in 16:9 mode, you have a selection of 4 different display modes: letterbox, full, zoom 1, zoom 2.

There is an "unused" RCA jack on the back and speculation several web forums is that adding a few components to the PCB would enable SPDIF digital audio out.

A co-worker of mine compared the composite and S-Video out and said the S-Video was significantly better.

All in all it's a very nice box and probably worth the $30 extra it cost over what is available at Radio Shack or Walmart.

Found this at satelliteguys, I didn't realize they would change to digital only on our local channels.

http://mstv.org/docs/sattransschedule.pdf

Another comment on this, I see Joplin change over on dish is 7/28, D* N/A. Springfield on dish is 8/11 and Directv 12/22.

Not sure how this will make any difference to us.

...He said he would need to install the mast onto a tripod and said that he had the J-masts, but they wouldn't work with my mast. The (38") "long" J-mast is the one that the 4228 will fit on perfectly, if installing on the peak of a roof or gable fascia board of a house.

I already have this mount (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/3078.htm). I bought it as an attic mount, so I didn't even think of using it on the roof. Would I just screw it into the roof?I've never seen a clamp exactly like that one and don't know if using only one would be sturdy enough. Contact warren electronics.

I got my Channel Master CM-7000 converter box today...
On signals in 16:9 mode, you have a selection of 4 different display modes: letterbox, full, zoom 1, zoom 2.
rhoops, two questions about the CM box:
1. Can you set the zoom mode on a channel-by-channel basis like the Zenith/Insignia?
2. Is there a way to manually add channels not found in the initial scan, without forgetting the previously found channels? The Zenith has a feature called "EZ-Add" that will only look for new channels and add them to the previous list of found channels. It also has a manual add feature that allows you to add channels if you know the RF channel number (one more reason for stations to ID using the RF number, not a virtual number based on their old analog ch assignment). Very important for viewers out in the fringe or two market areas that use a rotor.

Found this at satelliteguys, I didn't realize they would change to digital only on our local channels.Well, if they didn't start uplinking the digital channels, everyone watching their locals via sat would lose them on 2/17/09. So they have to switch to digital OTA reception before that date.

Another comment on this, I see Joplin change over on dish is 7/28, D* N/A. Springfield on dish is 8/11 and Directv 12/22.

Not sure how this will make any difference to us.E * D* standard def subscribers will received a zoomed/cropped version of the main DT OTA broadcast. At least that's how they've formatted channels in other markets where they've already switched to the digital OTA channel for uplinking.

So will the Sat. companies still have to receive two uplinks, digital for SD people and the HD feed also? Or will the Sat. companies do the cropping of the HD feed for SD customers?

And what will this do for SD customers getting their locals of Sat., better picture and sound or will it make any difference?

So will the Sat. companies still have to receive two uplinks, digital for SD people and the HD feed also? Or will the Sat. companies do the cropping of the HD feed for SD customers?They only need one uplink, which can be done as HD-only. In SD-only markets they may uplink it as SD, due to bandwidth costs. For all SD, at some point it must be cropped to 4:3 before downlinking to the small dish SD customer, because most SD boxes are not capable of reformatting the picture from 16:9 to 4:3.

And what will this do for SD customers getting their locals of Sat., better picture and sound or will it make any difference?In most cases, better quality. Except where excessive multicasting (e.g. Equity stations) results in a crappy OTA digital picture to begin with. Garbage-in/Garbage-out and all that...

Was it just a good dream I had last night, or did I actually see HD
on Joplin's KSNF channel 16? I tuned in during NBC's Fear "The
Sacrifice" and there it was, 5.1 surround and all! I waited through
the local news to see if Leno would be in HD and it was, but only
briefly in 16.9. The picture was switched to 4.3, apparently because
of storm warning overlays. Please, other Joplin area viewers, tell me I wasn't dreaming!

You are not dreaming, :). I just watched French Open in HD on KSNF. My signal strength is about 72.

Was it just a good dream I had last night, or did I actually see HD
on Joplin's KSNF channel 16? I tuned in during NBC's Fear "The
Sacrifice" and there it was, 5.1 surround and all! I waited through
the local news to see if Leno would be in HD and it was, but only
briefly in 16.9. The picture was switched to 4.3, apparently because
of storm warning overlays. Please, other Joplin area viewers, tell me I wasn't dreaming!

Are they at full power?

wei2008
Thanks for the confirmation and your signal strength
info. Now if we could just get Mission to hurry up its
switch of KODE's ABC to HD, rumored to be some time
later this year. I've always got a nearly 100% signal
strength from KSNF.

arxaw
I don't know if KSNF is now at full power. With the
change to HD, my signal today is fluctuating between
90 and 97.

Man, Joplin is late to the dance.

I was watching saturday night live and I noticed the sound was in 5.1 but still in 4.3. I came straight to AVS to see if I was just hearing things. I hope they're close to getting up in HD nice to see them atleast testing it. I've been waiting for this for about 5 years. Heros in HD this fall would be great

I wonder what KY3 will call themselves come Feb. 17th, KY44. I haven't heard any mention of this.

I don't think they will move channel 15 off the 44 bandwidth to the channel 19 bandwidth when the get up and running. It's just to close to converting time for all channels to be digital. They will have to start soon on 33 to have it going full power in August.

I wonder what KY3 will call themselves come Feb. 17th, KY44. I haven't heard any mention of this.

My guess would be "KY3." They will continue mapping as 3-1 after the transition and for the forseeable future.

- Trip

Which adds to the confusion and liklihood of people buying big VHF antennas to receive it.

...I don't think they will move channel 15 off the 44 bandwidth to the channel 19 bandwidth when the get up and running.They should go ahead and do that if they plan to, while everything is in a state of confusion.

KSPR-DT's 720p is much better suited for multicasting an additional sub-channel than KYTV-DT's 1080i.

It sure would be nice if they would move it even with 6 months left, or switch to digital early on channel 15. I don't think that will happen.

I hope you mean ch 19.

Speaking of KSPR-DT, they filed to maximize the other day. They have a CP for 1935' 363 kW ND, but filed for a new signal 1886' 1000 kW ND.

- Trip

Sometimes I don't don't type what I am thinking arxaw. I guess it is really channel 17 instead of 15.What I meant was, I wish they would go ahead and pull channel 17 off KY3 bandwidth and put it on channel 33 bandwidth for the last 6 months of analog broadcasting.

Not sure if channel 17 is required to go digital on Feb 17th, but I figure they are, be nice if they would be HD when they move to channel 17 digital, and quit piggybacking on KY3's bandwidth.

If any of this makes any since, I'm just rambling on.

K15CZ and K17DL are both low power, so they do not have to stop analog broadcasts on 2/17/09.

If they're going to keep broadcasting the CW on a digital sub channel of a real station, they should move to KSPR-DT's digital channel (19).

Using the www.rabbitearsinfo.com website, I found both KSNF and KODE have applied for construction permits with the FCC. The permits appear to allow them to increase their broadcast signal strength from low power. However, I'm no expert at deciphering all the information. Can someone help me understand a couple of things?

1) Did I understand the intent of the permit request?
2) How to know when the permit was requested?
3) How to know when the requested modifications are to be completed (i.e. I want to know when I might actually be able to see their signal)?
4) Why has KODE requested to go to 1000kW on channel 43, but KSNF has requested to go to 175kW on channel 46. (Assuming I am reading everything correctly)?

Thanks.

Using the www.rabbitearsinfo.com website, I found both KSNF and KODE have applied for construction permits with the FCC. The permits appear to allow them to increase their broadcast signal strength from low power. However, I'm no expert at deciphering all the information. Can someone help me understand a couple of things?

1) Did I understand the intent of the permit request?
2) How to know when the permit was requested?
3) How to know when the requested modifications are to be completed (i.e. I want to know when I might actually be able to see their signal)?
4) Why has KODE requested to go to 1000kW on channel 43, but KSNF has requested to go to 175kW on channel 46. (Assuming I am reading everything correctly)?

Thanks.

The most current information is availalbe from the FCC:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=MO&call=&arn=&city=Joplin&chan=02&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

Under the "status" column,
CP Construction Permit
CP MOD Modification of Construction Permit
LIC Licensed

In the "service" column
DT Digital Television
TX Translator
TV Regular Analog TV

It looks like KSNF has a CP for 1000 KW @ 268.6 Meters above average terrain and KODE has a CP for 175 KW @ 322 Meters above average terrain.
I can't explain the "medium power" on KODE, but note the antenna will be somewhat higher on KODE.

Using the www.rabbitearsinfo.com website, I found both KSNF and KODE have applied for construction permits with the FCC. The permits appear to allow them to increase their broadcast signal strength from low power. However, I'm no expert at deciphering all the information. Can someone help me understand a couple of things?

Sure, I'll help you out to the best of my ability.

1) Did I understand the intent of the permit request?

Sounds like you did to me. The stations are to boost power to the levels noted with the FCC.

2) How to know when the permit was requested?

If you expand the technical data and go to the "FCC Query" link, scroll down to the construction permits in question and you'll need to find the file number. So for KODE-DT, I find that the file number is:

BMPCDT-20070125ACU

Now, from that page, click the "Application List" link and look for that file number. If it has "Granted" next to it, then the FCC granted the application, on the date listed next to the "Granted." I hope that helps.

3) How to know when the requested modifications are to be completed (i.e. I want to know when I might actually be able to see their signal)?

From the same "Application List" link listed above (also available on RabbitEars via the "CDBS List" link), look for applications with an E near the beginning, like BEPCDT. Expanding on the KODE example, choose the second link from the top, which is "BEPDCT-20080319ADE." Then go to the bottom of that page and view the exhibit (it's a PDF). Scroll down to page 5 and you'll see in a table that they anticipate having it ready on 10/31/2008.

4) Why has KODE requested to go to 1000kW on channel 43, but KSNF has requested to go to 175kW on channel 46. (Assuming I am reading everything correctly)?

Thanks.

You're absolutely correct on the power levels. =)

The FCC designed the allocation table to allow for stations to replicate their analog coverage. Since VHF stations (2-13) like KODE travel much further than UHF stations (14-69) like KSNF, the FCC generally granted stations with VHF analogs more power. Now the FCC recently opened a window to allow stations to "maximize" their signals; who knows if KSNF will do so or just stick with the 175 kW CP.

If you have any further questions, I'll be around to answer. =)

- Trip

Thanks for the great response. I was able to follow your detailed instructions and get exactly the information I was wanting.

It appears KODE will be going to full power around 10/31/2008 and KSNF will wait until the 2/17/2009 deadline. I guess I will have to wait for a good signal.

KODE-DT ch 46 is not too far from another ch 46 in Derby, KS, so that may be all the power they are allowed.

Regardless, the higher tower may be more important than a higher transmit power, at least that seems to be true for other stations I receive.

I e-mailed Michael A. Scott of KY3 about an unrelated issue and also asked if they were on schedule with KSPR. This was his reply: "Construction is underway and we believe it will be completed around the first of August.":)

I e-mailed Michael A. Scott of KY3 about an unrelated issue and also asked if they were on schedule with KSPR. This was his reply: "Construction is underway and we believe it will be completed around the first of August.":)That's good.

I turned on K17DL analog this morning (OTA) and they were showing KY3 in a tiny window letterboxed and windowboxed with gray bars all around. I wonder why they were doing that?

I also contacted Mike of KY3 to see if they had planned on switching any sub channels from KY3 to KSPR - this was his reply: "Yes, we are planning to move the CW over to KSPR around the first of the year. The bandwidth will allow both stations to offer HD and it will improve KY3 as well.":)

Excellent news for NBC-HD, which has been severely bandwidth starved on KYTV-DT. ABC-HD's 720p should be able to handle the extra sub channel w/o much, if any PQ degradation. And it may improve CW's picture quality.

I got a reply about the K17DL screwup. Evidently, K17DL receives the CW OTA using a DTV receiver. The box reset (power failure?) and came back up on 3-1, instead of 3-2, and was letterboxing 3-1's 16:9 frame to 4:3...

I also contacted Mike of KY3 to see if they had planned on switching any sub channels from KY3 to KSPR - this was his reply: "Yes, we are planning to move the CW over to KSPR around the first of the year. The bandwidth will allow both stations to offer HD and it will improve KY3 as well.":)

Great news, bring it on.

Now that the FCC application freeze has been lifted, several stations in Arkansas have applied for significant power increases:
KFSM-DT CBS Fayetteville (doubling power)
KAFT-DT PBS Fayetteville (doubling)
KPBI-DT MyTV Eureka Springs (will flash cut to DTV @ 1,000kW)
KEMV-DT PBS Mountain View (tripling VHF power)

If the FCC's new coverage maps (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html) are correct, the power increases will extend these stations' coverage farther into South & SW MO.

I hope the Lake of the Ozarks get them.
KY3 only has one Sub Channel KY3 Weather Plus but maybe they are adding a ACCUWEATHER Channel,RTN Affliate,IONTV,24/7 Local Sports Channel or a News one or so on and Lake to.
Good to see CW going to be in HD so they Lake can get it.
Next to be in HD is MYNETWORKTV from Springfield.

Did they say both ABC-HD and CW-HD on KSPR-DT? This is going to go badly...

- Trip

... The bandwidth will allow both stations to offer HD...Yes. Please define "both stations."

Yes. Please define "both stations."

I sent off a follow up question to Mike at KY3 asking if "both" ment KSPR and CW in HD and this was his reply:

"Yes," "KSPR will launch HD the first of August and the CW by the end of the year."

Once ABC-HD starts on 33-1, enjoy it while it lasts. Two HDs on one channel has yet to work well, from what I'm told.

- Trip

Oh well, at least NBC-HD will look better. Too bad they're gonna screw up ABC-HD. Idiots.

Thank god for alternate market TV.

There's a major hole in the plans to run CW-HD on KSPR. KSPR and the CW run from two different locations. CW comes from KYTV's complex on Sunshine and KSPR is still over on St Louis.

How they plan to get a signal over to KSPR and its DT Encoder is beyond me.

uh, fiber maybe?

The bigger hole is trying to cram two 19mbs of HD bandwidth onto one 19mbs channel. AFAIK, everywhere it has been tried, the results have been disappointing. Of course, that won't stop ky3 from trying...

There's a major hole in the plans to run CW-HD on KSPR. KSPR and the CW run from two different locations. CW comes from KYTV's complex on Sunshine and KSPR is still over on St Louis.

How they plan to get a signal over to KSPR and its DT Encoder is beyond me.

KSPR will be moving to KY3's location near the end of the year, new studios and such are being built there. From what I am told KSPR will have to wait until then to get the "latest and greatest" hardware, in other words they are launching HD with minimal initial investment in their building in August, and then they will have the full arsenal when they move. I was also told they will have have the ability to air their syndicated programming in HD when it's available to them. KY3 might get the new studio and KSPR may move into the old, not sure. Originally their was talk of HD newscasts, haven"t heard anything lately on that.

KSPR will be moving to KY3's location near the end of the year, new studios and such are being built there. From what I am told KSPR will have to wait until then to get the "latest and greatest" hardware, in other words they are launching HD with minimal initial investment in their building in August, and then they will have the full arsenal when they move. I was also told they will have have the ability to air their syndicated programming in HD when it's available to them. KY3 might get the new studio and KSPR may move into the old, not sure. Originally their was talk of HD newscasts, haven"t heard anything lately on that.


Funny, there's no construction going on there at the moment. (I drove by the KY compound this morning)

KSPR already has the HD stuff for ABC at least running now from St Louis St.

(I have also checked the City of Springfield and KY hasn't had a permit issued for any kind of work at their complex yet)

Funny, there's no construction going on there at the moment. (I drove by the KY compound this morning)

KSPR already has the HD stuff for ABC at least running now from St Louis St.

(I have also checked the City of Springfield and KY hasn't had a permit issued for any kind of work at their complex yet)

Perhaps i should say "are going to be built there"

Make me feel bad? You suck. ;)
I don't know what these stations are thinking. The guys at the shop where I bought my TV claim KOLR and KDEB could go full power anytime. They won't because they think there is no demand. They just do the minimum the MUST do to stay out of trouble with the FCC. The TV shops tell them they have sold lots of HD ready sets and people would buy tuners if there were something to see. Classic chicken/egg crap... drives me nuts.
Same guys tell me KSPR has an FCC granted extension due to "financial difficulties". No details. No idea when it expires or what will happen when it does.

I know this was a long time ago but just to set to record straight that information isn't right. The reason that KOLR/KSFX didn't go full power right away is because it costs ALOT of money to do so. We are talking in the millions to upgrade the equipment to do so. The only reason I know this is because my dad runs both KOLR/KSFX and believe me he wanted them to go full power as soon as they could cause he also loves Hi-def. Just thought I would let you in on the past.

Is any one else not getting PSIP all of the time on Ky3? It shows DTV Program only. I first noticed this while channel surfing my Zenith DTT900 converter and first thought in might be just the Zenith. Since then I have compared it with my Sanyo HDTV and am getting the same but not all of the time - No PSIP data on KY3 and CW.:(