rhoops,

Why is there absolutely no specific information about the upcoming KOLR/KSFX analog shutdown on their web site? It seems like that should be somewhere on the main page of the site. All I could find is vague canned discussions about DTV. Nothing specific to KOLR/KSFX.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease!

--
KOLR10 & KSFX To Make Digital Transition April 16

KOLR10 & The Ozarks Fox, KSFX, will turn off their analog transmitters for good on April 16th at midnight, KSFX Vice-President and General Manager Mark Gordon said.

"We will only be broadcasting digital signals after that time," he said. "We encourage viewers to make sure they are prepared to receive our digital signals over the air, or by cable or satellite, so they will not be caught without service after that date."

Over-the-air viewers must have the right UHF/VHF antenna for where they live, and either a digital TV, or an older TV with a digital converter box. Gordon also reminds viewers to rescan the channels on their digital TV's or converter boxes after the 16th.

"We will move the KOLR10 digital signal to the old Channel 10 VHF frequency after that date, which will mean a much stronger digital signal. But it is very important for over-the-air viewers to rescan their channels to assure they can continue getting the station," Gordon said.

This move caps a multi-year digital transition by KOLR10 and KSFX. The stations urge viewers who are not yet capable of receiving the digital signals of their Springfield TV stations to call 417-862-1010 for assistance.

They can also call the FCC help line at 1-888-CALL-FCC (TTY:1-888-835-5322).

Nexstar Broadcasting, owner of KSFX, provides services to KOLR10 under agreement with Mission Broadcasting, owner of KOLR10.

rhoops,
Thanks! It was long overdue.

[EDIT:] The article is now a "sticky" under the "DTV Answers" tab on the KOLR/KSFX web site (http://www.ozarksfirst.com/).


.

With this date coming so soon, have Directv's guide people been told KOLR is moving back to 10? (I say this because of the fact my HR-20 doesn't have scan abilities, I must rely on what guide data is fed to it via Tribune)

It may be a day or two before they catch up, considering this will happen on a Friday morning... (And because I don't get Springfield locals via Directv, only OTA, I may not be able to view KOLR until Monday or Tuesday)


[For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, I have the older (and better) Directv model that has a built in OTA tuner that Directv controls via guide data.]

With this date coming so soon, have Directv's guide people been told KOLR is moving back to 10? (I say this because of the fact my HR-20 doesn't have scan abilities, I must rely on what guide data is fed to it via Tribune)Good point.

Even though Tribune supposedly has a list of stations changing frequency, it's highly likely the dates are all screwed up, thanks to the current administration throwing a huge wrench in the analog shutdown.

rhoops,
Contact Eamon Foster with Tribune 518 792-9914 x2281 to verify the channel change metadata is correct and will be updated on the right date.

Other Tribune contacts may be foune here:
http://tribunemediaentertainment.com/contacts.shtml

If Tribune screws up, KOLR may not be available to DirecTV DVR OTA viewers for weeks, or longer. NW Ark. and New Orleans, LA had this problem with some stations a while back and it took months to get it corrected.

DirecTV has added KOZK-HD:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=65321

DirecTV has added KOZK-HD:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=65321

It's been up a couple of weeks. There are now 2 channel 15's and 31's as well.

It's been up a couple of weeks. There are now 2 channel 15's and 31's as well.

Those are duplictes from 99 sat, the 72.5 is no longer needed if you have MPEG 4 equipment. I had a Movers Connection install today, they swapped my old SD box for a H21 and put up a SL3.

It's been up a couple of weeks. There are now 2 channel 15's and 31's as well.Sorry for the old news. It was only updated on dbstalk recently.

I don't have Springfield locals on D* so I wasn't aware. I have "another" DMA to the South.

Kind of off-topic, but did anyone get hit hard by the storms last night? I'm looking forward to switching from D* to OTA so that I don't lose the TV signal every time it rains really hard. I just need to adjust my antenna and run the RG6 to my HTPC, and I should be all set.

pssst: Wanna buy a TV station?
http://www.televisionbroadcast.com/article/78062

Kind of off-topic, but did anyone get hit hard by the storms last night? I'm looking forward to switching from D* to OTA so that I don't lose the TV signal every time it rains really hard. I just need to adjust my antenna and run the RG6 to my HTPC, and I should be all set.

How much of an issue is heavy rain or snow on Direct or Dish reception? I live in Springfield near downtown and would like to fire Mediacom for their bad customer service, and low number of HD channels.

Thanks

How much of an issue is heavy rain or snow on Direct or Dish reception? I live in Springfield near downtown and would like to fire Mediacom for their bad customer service, and low number of HD channels. If your dish is properly aligned, rain fade should only occur in the heaviest period of rain/thunderstorms. We've had quite a bit of rain here today, and my DirecTV service hasn't gone out at all.

Wet snow can cause an outage, but my dish is on a 5' post, so it's easy to sweep the snow off. Rare problem.

I would never give up OTA, though, and have always had it as a backup, even when I briefly had cable, back in 2000. IMO, OTA is much more reliable than local channels from a pay service.

How much of an issue is heavy rain or snow on Direct or Dish reception? I live in Springfield near downtown and would like to fire Mediacom for their bad customer service, and low number of HD channels.

Thanks

I live near downtown Springfield and I have ZERO problems with heavy rain or snow and Directv (Granted I have my dish on my balcony so it never sees rain or snow to any great amount)

If your dish is properly aligned, rain fade should only occur in the heaviest period of rain/thunderstorms. We've had quite a bit of rain here today, and my DirecTV service hasn't gone out at all.

Wet snow can cause an outage, but my dish is on a 5' post, so it's easy to sweep the snow off. Rare problem.

I would never give up OTA, though, and have always had it as a backup, even when I briefly had cable, back in 2000. IMO, OTA is much more reliable than local channels from a pay service.

I agree with ARXAW, during the ice storm I lost Dish for several days but the generator kept the tv and heat on and the antenna provided a good signal
:)

Note: In areas that receive both Royals baseball and Blues hockey, Sunday's Blues game will also be available on an alternate channel: Mediacom-Springfield 14; Mediacom-Columbia 20; Cable One-Joplin 78; Comcast-Independence 261; Time Warner-Kansas City 30.

I probably need to get my dish adjusted, but I'm canceling service as soon as I finish setting up my HTPC, so there's no point now. I will say that in the first 5 months with DirecTV at my old house, I don't remember experiencing any problems. At the new house we'll completely lose signal for weather like the other night and lose signal on many HD channels if it rains at all.

... lose signal on many HD channels if it rains at all.Definitely out of adjustment.

Anyone else getting K17DL-LD (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=23969)? There's nothing on it yet but a placeholder test video. It is 16:9 1080i HD.

Anyone else getting K17DL-LD (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=23969)? There's nothing on it yet but a placeholder test video. It is 16:9 1080i HD.

Fun stuff on the way.

http://bransonvisitortv.com/

Sounds interesting for about 2 minutes. Then the weather report will end and it'll be time to find something real to watch.

- Trip

Like KBNS-CA 38, only 1080i.

I had channel 17 last night, but have lost it tonight. It was running at about 66% on my dish receiver. Maybe they shut it down, or my signal is just to weak. Is anyone getting it tonight?

I'm not sure if any of you watch American Idol. Right in the middle of Jennifer Hudson's performance last night, KSFX switches to SD with crappy sound to run the analog-shut-off ticker. I'm certainly not against running the ticker, but seriously how much more work would it have been to do a separate ticker for HD instead of switching everyone over to SD. The same thing happened last fall during Survivor, so it's certainly not just KSFX that's doing it.

Most Fox stations can't overlay on the HD because the splicer prevents it. And the FCC requires the crawl.

- Trip

If you have a DirecTV HD DVR with built in OTA tuner (or tuner add-on), that gets physical channel information from D*, currently KOLR-DT may show "searching for OTA signal" on your screen.

Apparently, D* has already changed the metadata moving KOLR-DT from RF channel 52 to 10. It should come back on tonight at midnight, when KOLR-DT moves to 10.

Confirmed, KOLR is showing that on mine.

I think the major reason D* did it early was that they had no idea what time stations were actually going. Some did it at 9 am others will do so at midnight.

Just a few more hours for KOLR-10 on channel 52.

For those techies out there, I would like a comparison of the current signal strength and the received signal strength after we go DTV on channel 10.

Also note whether you are using a VHF/UHF antenna or a UHF only antenna.

I expect that the increased tower height and lower path loss of VHF will trump the decreased ERP.

Whadda you say..... lets look at the numbers.

Tv Guide Channel is gone from Analog.

I just tuned in 10.1 (not the 52.1) and am getting a signal strength of around 50 here in Cabool. When the station was on 52.1 I could rarely get a signal and when I did it was in the 20s and 30s. BTW 28.1 is still around 35 to 40 not that I expected any stronger signal though.

No 10.anything for me right now. (I'm in downtown Springfield)

Before I was getting 10 at 94% signal strength and 100% quality level
Now 10 at 48%signal strength and 60% quality level.
With a UHF ant in attic.

3 is 97% and 100% RF CH 44
21 is 80% and 100% RF CH 10
27 is 83% and 100% RF CH 23
33 is 95% and 100% RF CH 19
Pioneer Elite TV with internal tuner

I am at 65 and Sunshine with a UHF ant in the attic,
I have always had great signal even when all were at low power,
Now it loos like I will need to buy a VHF ant to get ch 10

I had 75-80 signal strength on the old frequency in West Plains, now we are down to 63-65 with occasional drop outs.
Looks like it might be time for a different antenna, have an old channel master UHF/VHF that I had removed all but one of the VHF sections.
27-1 runs about 77, 3 and 21 are close to 100

(So much for the "VHF really gets out there" theory.)

On my Sony TV with CM 4228 antenna & 7777 v/u preamp, I was getting upper 90s when KOLR-DT was on 52. Now, it's in the upper 70s or low 80s. And that's early in the morning, when reception should be very good.

The worst part is, I have a converter box/TV in another room with only an un-amp'd rabbit ear/loop antenna. I used to get all the Springfield stations with it, but have now lost channel 10. :(

rhoops, your ERP is too weak! KTHV-DT in Little Rock is on VHF ch 12, and they're at 55kW ERP.

rhoops,

Now that KSFX analog 27 has gone dark, I can finally get KFTA-DT (FOX) on RF 27, from Fort Smith! I never could receive it before, due to the 5,000kW KSFX interference menace. Thanks for shuttin' 'er down!

rhoops,

I can't get KOLR-DT 10-1 on either one of my DirecTV HD DVRs that have built in OTA tuners. I have rebooted both receivers, but that didn't help.

Apparently, D* has the incorrect physical channel mapping metadata, furnished by Tribune Media Services.

To get it corrected, contact Eamon Foster with TMS: . 518 792-9914 x2281
He will change the metadata.

I can get KOLR (at 10.1) just fine on my Directv HR20/OTA box. I was using it a little while ago to actually aim my antenna properly for them and am currently watching The Early Show.

So, Directv's metadata IS correct.

rhoops, your ERP is too weak! KTHV-DT in Little Rock is on VHF ch 12, and they're at 55kW ERP.
I was talking about that with the station manager yesterday. The transmitter has plenty of reserve and if we've lost coverage area, it shouldn't be too hard to file for a power increase.

Here's my signal report from downtown Springfield, near Glenstone and Cherry:

Using my Radio Shack U-75 UHF only antenna 5 feet above my roof, I get 10 bars on all the UHF's and 6-7 bars on Channel 10.

My "wet noodle" theory still holds though. It the picture doesn't break up then what I have is "good enough".

Still, a resonant VHF / UHF antenna that's up and in the open is the best thing to have. For really tough cases I'd think a 4-7 element yagi cut to channel 10 would really shine. (who makes one of them?)

Viewers on the fringe should notice the most difference. The channel 10 antenna is at the top of the 2000 foot tower. It's actually nearly 200 feet tall, and is free and clear in the open.

Despite the best engineering and design a side mounted antenna can never be really omnidirectional.

I can get KOLR (at 10.1) just fine on my Directv HR20/OTA box. I was using it a little while ago to actually aim my antenna properly for them and am currently watching The Early Show.

So, Directv's metadata IS correct.Mine's working now. Not sure what was going on before. But KOLR-DT's signal strength is now below all my other channels. :(

I was talking about that with the station manager yesterday. The transmitter has plenty of reserve and if we've lost coverage area, it shouldn't be too hard to file for a power increase.Please do so. The extra oomph may also help protect against impulse noise interference. KAFT in Fayetteville recently applied to double their VHF power.

Here's my signal report from downtown Springfield, near Glenstone and Cherry:

Using my Radio Shack U-75 UHF only antenna 5 feet above my roof, I get 10 bars on all the UHF's and 6-7 bars on Channel 10.

My "wet noodle" theory still holds though. It the picture doesn't break up then what I have is "good enough".It may break up when lightning is anywhere within a several county radius. Enjoy the audio dropouts.

Still, a resonant VHF / UHF antenna that's up and in the open is the best thing to have. For really tough cases I'd think a 4-7 element yagi cut to channel 10 would really shine. (who makes one of them?)I don't think they're available any more, except for commercial application$, cable headends,etc. There is a vhf high add on available. A hassle, though.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y10-7-13

Viewers on the fringe should notice the most difference...I certainly noticed a difference. Lost KOLR-DT on one converter box TV. BTW, that TV used to get a watchable picture on KOLR 10 analog, using only a piece of wire stuck in the ANT-IN jack. Zilch, now.

Just a few more hours for KOLR-10 on channel 52.

For those techies out there, I would like a comparison of the current signal strength and the received signal strength after we go DTV on channel 10.

Also note whether you are using a VHF/UHF antenna or a UHF only antenna.

I expect that the increased tower height and lower path loss of VHF will trump the decreased ERP.

Whadda you say..... lets look at the numbers.

First let me preface my report with my antenna gear in Stoutland, MO. I have the largest UHF/VHF antenna from Radio Shack 35 Ft. in the air with a rotor. Being partially in a valley, the antenna is surrounded by a forest of trees on all sides especially towards Springfield. I have always had to occasionally reposition the antenna direction for best reception with digital channel 10 being the worst where best signal is at 72-75% signal strength. Especially before and after season change when leaves appear or disappear. I am assuming the multiple signal path rejection is not as good on my Sanyo.

I use a Channel Master 3044 4 output amp with 22db gain. This drives three main connections from the antenna. I have rg6 cable throughout.

Before the switch I was getting signal strength, at best, of around 72-75% on my Sanyo HDTV for channel 10.1. And, a signal strength of around 75-80% on all other channels. I also have a Couple of Zenith converter boxes - they have always been 5 to 8% better on signal strength across the board.

After a rescan this morning on my Sanyo HDTV about 7:45 the signal strength was 52-57% for about two minutes then zero for channel 10.1. And, zero every since. I did a rescan on my Zenth converter box and came up with a signal strength of around 60-65% with no drop outs so far on channel 10.1. So, I am obviously not too happy with channel 10 reverting to VHF. I have tried turning my antenna to all directions without success.

I might add that the analog channel 10 signal used to be my best reception before they added their digital signal. A very clear signal.

I was talking about that with the station manager yesterday. The transmitter has plenty of reserve and if we've lost coverage area, it shouldn't be too hard to file for a power increase.

How much TPO are you capable of versus how much you're putting out now? Just curious.

- Trip

How much TPO are you capable of versus how much you're putting out now? Just curious.

- Trip
It's a bit hard to calculate, but there are two PA cabinets and we split the feeds and ran half power on analog and coverted the other half to digital.

So we are basically running on half the transmitter. The rated visual transmit power was 16 KW average, which yielded 316 KW ERP.

Even allowing de-rating for the heavier duty cycle of digital, I'd think we could make 100 KW ERP without too much difficulty.

It's a solid-state Larkin transmitter and the PA modules are in hot pluggable drawers. You can grab the handle and yank out a drawer and the transmitter just kicks up the drive and maintains power.

If I recall correctly, in normal NTSC service each PA cabinet was capable of making full rated power even with 2 or 3 failed modules.

Hm, well given that, you should be able to get a boost to 28.3 kW ERP from the FCC right away, just based on height and the FCC limit.

Now I'm not an engineer yet, but to me, it looks like if you apply 47CFR73.622(f)(5), you could boost up to 64 kW ERP without exceeding the coverage area of KYTV-DT which looks to me like the largest station in the market.

That assumes no interference issues with KAFT or KTUL or anything. I'm not able to run those analyses, unfortunately.

- Trip

We've had several callers using conventional rabbit ears. They usually extend them fully. When each "ear" is set to 14.3 inches ( 1/4 wavelength at 196 Mhz) it works much better. I guess there is something to having a resonant antenna.

I wonder about the feasability of adding a "coat hanger" VHF dipole to a UHF antenna.

... I am obviously not too happy with channel 10 reverting to VHF. I have tried turning my antenna to all directions without success.

I might add that the analog channel 10 signal used to be my best reception before they added their digital signal. A very clear signal.What plrtch said on both accounts, +1.

That assumes no interference issues with KAFT or KTUL or anything. I'm not able to run those analyses, unfortunately.Would KOLR 10 cause problems for KAFT 9, or the other way around?

What plrtch said on both accounts, +1.

Would KOLR 10 cause problems for KAFT 9, or the other way around?

I think 9 would cause more interference to 10 than 10 does to 9, but I'm not sure.

- Trip

10-1 was at 88% strength yesterday, now it's not even being found after rescan on 2 of my 3 TV's. The 3rd (the little one in the kitchen) shows it at 1 "bar" strength out of 5, but no picture or audio problems.

I guess I won't be watching much KOLR now.

After a rescan this morning on my Sanyo HDTV about 7:45 the signal strength was 52-57% for about two minutes then zero for channel 10.1. And, zero every since. I did a rescan on my Zenth converter box and came up with a signal strength of around 60-65% with no drop outs so far on channel 10.1.
Did I read this right? You are getting a signal with no dropouts with your Zenith converter box? And the Sanyo worked for a few minutes, then dropped? That sounds like you are basically getting a usable signal.

DTV sets are bascially computers executing firmware programs. Sometimes they get goofy and need a reboot. We've had some luck recommending that viewers unplug the set or converter box for a few minutes and then re-scanning.

Another possibility is your pre-amp. Many of the calls we've taken today were from viewers using indoor antennas with amplifiers. We think they may be picking up FM stations, clipping the signal and internally generating second harmonics. Channel 10 is 192-198 Mhz, so stations 96-99 Mhz could do this. Even a well designed pre-amp that doesn't have bandpass filters on the input could do this.

If its practical to bypass your amp, that is something to try.

I just remembered that the early Dish Network OTA receivers had problems with strong signals. A friend of mine kept having problems and getting larger and larger antennas in an attempt to solve the problem. He finally went to a very small antenna a few feet higher and that worked. Later we found out Dish updated the firmware and fixed the problem. Other users put an attenuator in the line and fixed it that way.

From posts on a local electronic bulletin board:

"My [KOLR] results are much worse. In fact the signal has been too weak all day. I was able to scan and pick it up this morning but by 10am it was gone for all practical purposes. Wonder if they reduced power."

"I've rescanned several times and it never picks up KOLR."

"I just re-scanned mine and can't pick it [KOLR] up either."

"Can't get 10 at all. NBC and Fox clear as bell."

wow, kolr 10 sucks now. I live like 10 minutes north of springfield and it used to get 100% signal on my dish 722. Now I had to rescan and it's a 65%. 33 is 100%. 21 is 100% 3 is 100% 27 is 85%. And I know a lot of family members that live around here that have a lot worse antennas than I do and there's no way that they'll be picking up 10 now. They had trouble picking it up before they did this. I'm using an antenna built from this http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/ website. Is this antenna not good for VHF?

... I'm using an antenna built from this http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/ website. Is this antenna not good for VHF?No.
It says UHF antenna in the web URL.

It may work for VHF sometimes, but only if the signal is very strong. Which would rule out KOLR.

I'm getting kolr-10 at 80 percent on my dish network 622 ota tuner this morning. About the same as I was before they turned analog off and switched, everything else comes in at 100%

[QUOTE=rhoops;16282789]

For those techies out there, I would like a comparison of the current signal strength and the received signal strength after we go DTV on channel 10.

QUOTE]

I'm not a "techie", but here is my input. I am near Three Brothers, AR using an old CM VHF/UHF antenna. Signal strength for 10 and 27 both dropped on the 17th. 10 was about 90%, but now is about 85%. 27 was about 80%, but now is about 66%. This not a problem for me, but I have in-laws in Newton county, AR that are a "little" disappointed. 10 was billed as having a better signal after the 17th, but that is obviously not the case. They are able to receive 3, 27, and 33 digital with a much lower signal strength than me, but it is viewable. Their signal for 10 is only 4-7%. On the DS-9950's that we are using it takes a signal strength of 30-33% to get a picture. If 10 is able to boost their coverage area or signal my in-laws would be very greatful ! Thanks rhoops for all the info you contribute to this forum. It is appreciated !

For those techies out there, I would like a comparison of the current signal strength and the received signal strength after we go DTV on channel 10....I have in-laws in Newton county, AR that are a "little" disappointed. 10 was billed as having a better signal after the 17th, but that is obviously not the case. They are able to receive 3, 27, and 33 digital with a much lower signal strength than me, but it is viewable. Their signal for 10 is only 4-7%. On the DS-9950's that we are using it takes a signal strength of 30-33% to get a picture. If 10 is able to boost their coverage area or signal my in-laws would be very greatful!bodie1,
Are your relatives using a preamp? If not, they may have to add one, preferably a VHF/UHF preamp that installs outside on the antenna mast, like this one (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANC7777). Cheap hardware store/walmart cable amps usually won't help. They may also need to get a new combo antenna with better gain numbers in the VHF band. Example here (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HD7697P).

KOLR 10.1 is completely gone here in Branson West. When KOLR was on UHF 52, signal strengths were in the 80-90% range, and was only problematic on windy days. The VHF analog signal was actually quite usable here once I added the big VHF antenna a few weeks ago, but since the transition I can't get any of the receivers, not even the converter boxes, to find KOLR on a scan, let alone lock on with a picture. Direct entry of the channel does nothing as well.:-(

Receivers:

Dish 622
Dish 211
Pioneer 5080HD Plasma
Polaroid TLA-0411C LCD
Insignia converter box
Digital Stream converter box

Antennas (In attic)

Jaycar LT3192 UHF Antenna
Radio Shack (unknown model #) 12 VHF element UHF/VHF antenna w/UHF reflector folded down
Channel Master 7777 pre-amp in split UHF/VHF mode
Radio Shack 15-678 In-Line Attenuator
All fresh RG6 w/compression fittings

There are several DTV channel 10s (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=&arn=&city=&chan=10&cha2=10&serv=DT&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9) around the country at much higher ERP than KOLR-DT.

10-1 was at 88% strength yesterday, now it's not even being found after rescan on 2 of my 3 TV's. The 3rd (the little one in the kitchen) shows it at 1 "bar" strength out of 5, but no picture or audio problems.

I guess I won't be watching much KOLR now.

This morning I went up in the attic to see what was connected to what. The 2 TV's that wouldn't get 10-1 were both connected to my Silver Sensor and a Wal-mart preamp. This setup was getting 33-1 even when it was on low power.

I rearranged things and now I have all TV's attached to my 40+ year old VHF/UHF antenna. It has 3 pairs of VHF poles, and it is aimed directly at Fordland. I am in a valley though. Definitely no line of sight. I have the same preamp (RCA I think) then a 4-way splitter.

I can now get all channels on all TV's. Signals are 3-1 88%, 10-1 77%, 21-1 98%, 27-1 96%, and 33-1 98%. These are all down slightly compared to the SS antenna. 10-1 was 88% before their switch.

No issues here now. I wonder about weather affecting 10-1 though.

My wife will be happy that she won't have to watch Hallmark Hall of Fame in the kitchen Sunday night.

Ken

Edit: BTW, I'm on the south edge of Springfield.

Did I read this right? You are getting a signal with no dropouts with your Zenith converter box? And the Sanyo worked for a few minutes, then dropped? That sounds like you are basically getting a usable signal.
At the time I thought the same thing - but it didn't occur to me to reboot.
DTV sets are bascially computers executing firmware programs. Sometimes they get goofy and need a reboot. We've had some luck recommending that viewers unplug the set or converter box for a few minutes and then re-scanning.
Although I didn't check channel 10 this morning before I unplugged my TV for a few seconds, after I plugged it back in and did a complete rescan (wipes out all channels), I now have channel 10 at a solid 82%. Thanks rhoops!!
Another possibility is your pre-amp. Many of the calls we've taken today were from viewers using indoor antennas with amplifiers. We think they may be picking up FM stations, clipping the signal and internally generating second harmonics. Channel 10 is 192-198 Mhz, so stations 96-99 Mhz could do this. Even a well designed pre-amp that doesn't have bandpass filters on the input could do this.
If its practical to bypass your amp, that is something to try.
Tried that after 10 didn't come in initially - no go.
I just remembered that the early Dish Network OTA receivers had problems with strong signals. A friend of mine kept having problems and getting larger and larger antennas in an attempt to solve the problem. He finally went to a very small antenna a few feet higher and that worked. Later we found out Dish updated the firmware and fixed the problem. Other users put an attenuator in the line and fixed it that way.
When I initially set up my Sanyo HDTV, I tried all sorts of things to get a better signal. One of them was over amplifying the signal. When you do, the signal goes away. At least on my Sanyo.

Thanks again rhoops.

bodie1,
Are your relatives using a preamp? If not, they may have to add one, preferably a VHF/UHF preamp that installs outside on the antenna mast, like this one (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANC7777). Cheap hardware store/walmart cable amps usually won't help. They may also need to get a new combo antenna with better gain numbers in the VHF band. Example here (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HD7697P).

They are not using a preamp. They are using a distribution amp. We ordered and tried a Winegard 8275 preamp and it did not improve their reception much if any. We have spent considerable time and effort trying different antennas, new RG6 coax, moving antennas to different locations, etc. The setup they have right now I feel is as good as it can get. The prob they have with 10-1 seems to be with the signal not being as good as it was supposed to be. According to what I'm reading on this thread all have noticed a decline in the signal strength rather than the advertised increase. I'm not trying to place blame, but just saying that if it is possible for 10-1 and 27-1 to increase their signals it would probably be welcomed by those having issues with reception. Thanks for the advise though !

They are not using a preamp. They are using a distribution amp. We ordered and tried a Winegard 8275 preamp and it did not improve their reception much if any. Did you remove the distribution amp when you connected the 8275?

Only full power analog left in Springfield that I still get is KYTV 3.

KWBM analog 31, city of License Harrison, Ark. may or may not still be on. I get it occasionally, but not today. I do get KPBI 34, from here in Eureka Springs. The previous owner, Equity Broadcasting in Little Rock went bankrupt. And I believe that both of these stations were auctioned off on Thursday, April 16.

Did you remove the distribution amp when you connected the 8275?

We tried it both ways. First without dist. amp, then with it. With both it was too much I think because the strength meter actually went down as I remember it. Signal overload possibly from a closer, stronger analog signal. Beleive me, we have tried everything that has been suggested on this forum and from some very knowledgible antenna veterans. The only thing we haven't tried is a super-huge monster antenna they have up in the barn. It might do better, but it is so big and bulky they would need something sturdier to mount it on. That is cost prohibitive. Thanks again for the input.

We tried it both ways. First without dist. amp, then with it. With both it was too much I think because the strength meter actually went down as I remember it. Signal overload possibly from a closer, stronger analog signal. Beleive me, we have tried everything that has been suggested on this forum and from some very knowledgible antenna veterans. The only thing we haven't tried is a super-huge monster antenna they have up in the barn. It might do better, but it is so big and bulky they would need something sturdier to mount it on. That is cost prohibitive. Thanks again for the input.You're right about the overload.

The big-ass antennas like they have in the barn were for lowband VHF chs 2 thru 6. None of those frequencies are in use for DTV in this area. New antennas suitable for this area (and most of the US) are tuned for chs 7 and above, like these (http://search.solidsignal.com/?q=hd769&I1.x=0&I1.y=0&site=com&new_search=1), and are much smaller.

No.
It says UHF antenna in the web URL.

It may work for VHF sometimes, but only if the signal is very strong. Which would rule out KOLR.

wow, I'm dumb. why is kolr10 the only channel that is vhf?

VHF is susceptible to impulse noise interference. It comes from motors, light switches, car ignitions, power company transformers and lightning. The lightning doesn't even have to be right by your house.

With analog, impulse noise interference would show up as just white dots of interference in the picture. With digital, impulse noise often causes video pixelation and audio dropouts. The pixelation is tolerable. The audio dropouts are not.

Another form of VHF interference that is less common on UHF is interference from stations in distant cities using the same or adjacent channels. This is more prevalent in summer when signals travel farther. With analog, the two channels would bleed over each other. With digital, you get no signal or intermittent reception.

Low VHF chs 2 - 6 are the most susceptible to this interference. But it also occurs on upper VHF chs 7 thru 13, especially the weaker the transmitter or the farther away you are from it. So, many stations smartly abandoned VHF for DTV broadcasts.

Some stations in the general region that abandoned VHF when they moved to DTV broadcasts:
KYTV 3 (Springfield)
KODE 12 (Joplin)
KFSM 5 (Ft Smith/Fayetteville)
KATV 7 (Little Rock)

wow, I'm dumb. why is kolr10 the only channel that is vhf?
There are a lot more UHF channels available (13-51).

Prior to DTV only 3 and 10 used VHF. The temporary DTV channel 52 what KOLR-DT used will be re-assigned to other services. The other stations were able to stay on their DTV channels.

I was talking about that with the station manager yesterday. The transmitter has plenty of reserve and if we've lost coverage area, it shouldn't be too hard to file for a power increase.


So what seems to be the general consensus at KOLR about the coverage now that you are back to VHF? Did you seem to lose coverage, gain coverage, or trade some areas for others? I'm disappointed to have lost your signal so completely, (the signal strength meter on the Insignia converter box sits on zero, but will occasionally flicker as if it heard something. The Digital Stream box occasionally gets to 15, but won't lock) especially when your analog signal seemed pretty good even when you were at reduced power. Am I in the minority, or have your phones been lighting up? Is there a power increase in your future?

... The temporary DTV channel 52 what KOLR-DT used will be re-assigned to other services. The other stations were able to stay on their DTV channels.There are still UHFs available in the Springfield DMA.

There are still UHFs available in the Springfield DMA.

Would it be theoretically possible for KOLR, or any station that lost coverage because of the switch back to DTV VHF, to file for, say, a 'hardship' claim and ask to be re-assigned to a UHF frequency?

Would it be theoretically possible for KOLR, or any station that lost coverage because of the switch back to DTV VHF, to file for, say, a 'hardship' claim and ask to be re-assigned to a UHF frequency?The reduced viewership would have to translate to reduced revenue in order for this to make any sense for a commercial station to pursue. The revenue loss would have to exceed the cost of a new transmitter (or re-tuning the ch. 52 TX), new antenna, possibly new transmission line, installation, increased utility bills, etc.

The reduced viewership would have to translate to reduced revenue in order for this to make any sense for a commercial station to pursue.

That's the sort of situation I was envisioning. I was wondering what the FCC's stance on this would be, and if they would allow a station that had flashcut at their VHF assignment and lost significant coverage, to then move to a UHF assignment. Or, in the case of KOLR, back to their assignment at UHF 52 (or, say, ch. 45, since 52 was auctioned off as pointed out by JT2009) once it had been shown that they lost coverage at the VHF assignment. Not a very realistic scenario, I'm sure, but I was just surprised at how suddenly KOLR's signal became unusable here.

After June 12, 2009 UHF channels 52-69 will no longer be used for TV!!!!

The FCC actioned off these channels along with the old analog channels.

We just crossposted, so I edited my post with KOLR going to um, ch. 45 :-)

Don't forget: All of you who can't get 10-1 anymore, if you're hooked up to a UHF-only antenna like I was (Silver Sensor style), you're gonna have to get a VHF/UHF antenna.

I am going to recommend to KOLR-10 management that they hire that guy from the Verizon cellphone commercials to drive around the ozarks with a DTV set in his truck, testing our signal.

I am going to recommend to KOLR-10 management that they hire that guy from the Verizon cellphone commercials to drive around the ozarks with a DTV set in his truck, testing our signal.

Beautiful! :-)

I live about 5 miles south of Crane and I just checked all my locals going through my dish 722dvr and a cm 4228 antenna. All the locals 3,10,21,27 and 33 was at 100%, it will bounce from 98 to 100%. I have checked channel 10 several times since the change over and almost all the time it's around 99%. I did see it once today in the mid to upper 88's. I figured they were messing with it at the station. I'm getting channel 17 at the most at 66%. So far channel 10's picture looks real good on vhf down here and the 5.1 dd sound is great.

I am going to recommend to KOLR-10 management that they hire that guy from the Verizon cellphone commercials to drive around the ozarks with a DTV set in his truck, testing our signal.

Tell them to start in Newton Co., AR. That's where my in-laws are having trouble. (if you have seen my previous posts) Can you see KOLR-10 now, LOL !

Tell them to start in Newton Co., AR. That's where my in-laws are having trouble. Tell him he better stay out of Carroll County, Ark. They're waitin' for him with pitchforks & torches! LOL

After fielding hundreds of calls, we've got a bit of a knowledge base going.
David Smith offers these suggestions:

--

After receiving many calls from viewers, I wanted to get out some information to everyone at the station so you know how to deal with some of the issues.

First of all, we're recommending that viewers, that can only use indoor antennas, use rabbit ear antennas with the loop antenna but without the booster. The booster doesn't do much & it causes problems with upper VHF in some areas & kolr is now upper VHF. The booster antennas will work in some areas but will have problems in others. Because the booster doesn't really accomplish much & are a problem in many areas, we're just
recommending using rabbit ears without a booster.

Second, when setting up the rabbit ears, only extend them to about 14". Do not pull them out all the way. This will make a big difference in it's performance.

We are also recommending not using the flat panel type antennas. As with everything else, it will work in some areas & not others.

The standard UHF/VHF yagi type antenna with a width of at least 2ft will work fine. If there are viewers with attic or outdoor antennas having problems they need to try installing an FM trap in line. If they have a booster, the FM trap needs to be installed at the antenna. It's the first thing the antenna should go through.

90% of calls that we can't help are viewers that have indoor antennas with boosters. There have been a few viewers that we haven't figured out but are collecting data to see if there is a common problem between them but they are a very small majority. We will be contacting some of them soon to try a couple solutions that should work.

If you have any friends or family that are having problems, please share this information with them. If they are still having difficulties, they call always call us at the station. Engineering will be very busy for another week but we're doingeverything we can to keep a handle on it including OT. Thanks for your help communicating this information.

There are a lot of folks out here in the fringes whose best analog channel was KOLR 10. But now, either they can't get KOLR-DT 10 or it's too weak to hold a reliable lock most of the time.

Any more word on a possible FCC request to increase power?

I've done some research on indoor amplified antennas.
There are 2 manufacturers that make good indoor amplified antennas. Wineguard & Channel Master. These antennas have the FM trap built in. They can be disabled by a switch if the viewer chooses so if the viewer has this type antenna, some of the switches are externbal & some are internal. Make sure the switch is set to block FM. If the viewer bought another type manufacturer, just tell them they need to look into purchasing a Winegard or Channel Master type antenna if they need a booster. Most of the other brands are <expletive deleted>. Thanks.

David Smith
Chief Engineer
KOLR-TV/DT
417-862-1010

Any more word on a possible FCC request to increase power?
It's been discussed at the highest levels in Springfield and kicked upstream to Irving Texas. Now it's in the hands of Nexstar management, the Washington lawyers and the FCC. There is nothing more to be done at this level.

[QUOTE=rhoops;16304453]Make sure the switch is set to block FM./QUOTE]

Just to be sure, I tried the FM trap on my mast-mounted Channel Master CM7777 pre-amp, with no change. I also played around with the in-line attenuator, but there simply isn't any signal there to begin with, so overload is not a concern here in Branson West. Hope you get a quick response from the FCC. Has the FCC been responsive to requests for these power increases from VHF's during the transition period? I would think they would be pretty accommodating right now.

It's been discussed at the highest levels in Springfield and kicked upstream to Irving Texas. Now it's in the hands of Nexstar management, the Washington lawyers and the FCC. There is nothing more to be done at this level.The FCC will likely approve, since they've been approving increases for several months now. Hopefully, nexstar wil approve, since it apparently wouldn't take much to accomplish a power increase with existing equipment.

WRT FM traps, ChannelMaster combo preamps (7777, etc.) come with an FM trap, enabled at the factory. To make sure it's enabled, open the mast mounted amp and look inside.
http://i31.tinypic.com/5scp5.jpg

....but there simply isn't any signal there to begin with, so overload is not a concern here in Branson West.
One of our photographers has a weekend place on the water near Shell Knob. He has an antenna mounted on his boat dock and he was able to pull in a steady signal last Saturday with a little tweaking. I can't figure out how he gets a usable signal 15 feet above Table Rock, and ten miles further from the transmitter.

Has the FCC been responsive to requests for these power increases from VHF's during the transition period?

Several stations on channel 10 have applied for a power increases:

KTTU, Ancorage has applied to increase from 21 to 50 KW
KAKE, Wichita, has applied to increase from 20.3 to 56.5 KW.
KSAZ, Phoenix, has applied to increase from 20 to 53 KW.
WSMV, Nashville has applied to increase from 43.4 to 60 KW.

One of our photographers has a weekend place on the water near Shell Knob. He has an antenna mounted on his boat dock and he was able to pull in a steady signal last Saturday with a little tweaking. I can't figure out how he gets a usable signal 15 feet above Table Rock, and ten miles further from the transmitter.Something in the water? :)

More likely a lucky hot spot and knife-edge refraction. See:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/DTVtransitionRevisited.html


Several stations on channel 10 have applied for a power increases:

KTTU, Ancorage has applied to increase from 21 to 50 KW
KAKE, Wichita, has applied to increase from 20.3 to 56.5 KW.
KSAZ, Phoenix, has applied to increase from 20 to 53 KW.
WSMV, Nashville has applied to increase from 43.4 to 60 KW.Several months ago, KAFT, VHF ch 9, Fayetteville, applied for and was approved to double their power from ~19kW to ~38kW. They have not done this yet.

On the application, one of the stations listed that KAFT might interfere with is KOLR-DT 10. Their coverage area (http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT1251460.jpg) reaches quite a bit of MO. If they increase power, it will be interesting to see if any more viewers lose KOLR-DT 10 at that time.

Originally Posted by rhoops
One of our photographers has a weekend place on the water near Shell Knob. He has an antenna mounted on his boat dock and he was able to pull in a steady signal last Saturday with a little tweaking. I can't figure out how he gets a usable signal 15 feet above Table Rock, and ten miles further from the transmitter.


Something in the water? :)

More likely a lucky hot spot and knife-edge refraction. See:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/DTVtransitionRevisited.html


I am almost at lake level, and last year when the lake levels were high I WAS lake level since the water was a few feet deep in part of the yard. TV Fool lists KOLR-DT as two-edge, same as all the Springfield stations. I am situated in the bottom of a bowl, with hills all around me. If I point my antennas NNE at the Fordland towers, I receive no signals from any of them. However, both the UHF and VHF antennas are currently pointing in a SW direction, and I'm catching a bounce off of a ridge nearby. (Which I never would have considered if it weren't for the Google Map/FCC overlays) Oddly enough, with the exception of windy days, I have good year-round reception of all the digital Springfield stations, and even KNWA out of Arkansas. KOLR analog was quite watchable, and I can get KYTV analog, but it looks pretty ugly, with lots of interference. I had peaked my VHF antenna using KOLR's analog signal, so it's optimized to look at that particular tower and nothing else. But with the signal strength where it is now, I'm not optimistic a power increase will help in my particular situation. I simply picked the wrong house to buy to watch KOLR-DT :-)

Hey guys don't know much about Antennas and all that however I have a Phillips MANT410 indoor antenna. I wasn't getting KOLR 10 at all and out of sheer desperation I flipped the switch on the back of the Antenna to Cable on the selector on the back and picked up all channels with no issues. So if you have that Antenna look on the back and on the far switch flip that over from ANT to CABLE. Hope that helps.

Hey guys don't know much about Antennas and all that however I have a Phillips MANT410 indoor antenna. I wasn't getting KOLR 10 at all and out of sheer desperation I flipped the switch on the back of the Antenna to Cable on the selector on the back and picked up all channels with no issues. So if you have that Antenna look on the back and on the far switch flip that over from ANT to CABLE. Hope that helps.

Interesting. I wonder what's up with that?

Welcome to AVS!

Ken

Seems like KYTV's analog signal got a little better where I live. I will lose it on June 12, 2009. Because I can't pick up any of the Springfield's Digital stations!!!!!

Ouch. What stations do you get?

What kind of antenna do you have now?

- Trip

Last week all digital channels came in on rabbit ears or even a$1.99 bowtie ant. We are 30 miles out. This week ch 10 needs a rooftop antenna like in the 1950's. Progress or digital FLOP! VHF is dinosaur!! Go back to UHF!!!

I live in deep fringe area 25 miles outside the circle.

The FCC maps show me outside the circle of coverage area for the Springfield MO Channels so I get none of them in digital.

I can get KAIT 8 abc Jonesboro AR. in digital but in pixilates during daylight hours. At night it works good.

I can get in analog KYTV 3 NBC snowy, KAIT 8 Jonesboro AR, KEMV 6 PBS Mountain View AR. very little snow.

Used to get analog KOLR 10 CBS snowy, KTEJ 19 PBS Jonesboro AR snowy, KVTJ 48 Jonesboro AR snowy.

Think I need a new antenna. Maybe that would help?

I have that Radioshack outdoor antenna they used to sell for $99.99

JT,

You might need to do the following, since you are basicly in a "White Area" for Springfield DTV OTA reception although you might be able to get KAIT-DT after June 12.

Add a good low noise, mast-mounted preamp (since you are miles from any OTA stations, the CM7777 works well in rural areas).

I'm assuming that $99 radio shack antenna is the VU190, its rather mediore (good, but not great, I have an old one that I now use for "skip" reception of low VHF and FM)--look into the Winegard line of antennas especially those made for channels 7-51 (KYTV-DT is actually ch44), and perhaps mounting it higher and installing a rotor (for Jonesboro).

The Jonesboro ABC station (KAIT) will flash cut DTV to its current analog channel 8 and abandon its current DTV assignment of ch9 in June.

One thing about TV markets, they are done much like states in Presidential elections, each county is put in a market when the majority of its viewers watch "local" TV from a certain area. For instance, I can get two of the El Dorado AR stations where I live, but also get Little Rock. Since the majority of Lincoln County AR watches Little Rock, my county is part of the Little Rock TV market--its a "winner take all" scenario. Since in your county the majority of viewers are watching (I assume) on cable and sat (and Ky3 and ch10 OTA) then your county was put in the Springfield MO market by the ratings company despite you being able to receive KAIT and KEMV analogs stronger.

I hope this answers some of the concerns....

I can get KAIT 8 abc Jonesboro AR. in digital but in pixilates during daylight hours. At night it works good.JT, you're well inside the coverage area for KAIT abc & KTEJ pbs Jonesboro. As Haley said, reception should improve in June for KAIT when they boost power and go back to ch 8. Do a rescan at that time. If reception is still intermittent, this antenna (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HD7697P) & preamp (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANC7777) should work well for your distance from Jonesboro.

I didn't read that anyone else was having this trouble but I thought I would post it in case some in the future does. I run Vista Media Center with an Xbox360 as the extender to my tv. I have an Happauge HVR-2250 and a Happauge HVR-1600 tuner cards installed. Once KOLR went all digital I could not receive any signal whatsoever. I rescanned and update all drivers, still nothing. I finally found the issue. When you rescan in vista it is only looking for new channels not updates to exsisting channels. I had to go in and remove KOLR and manually add the channel back. Here is what I did and now am receiving the signal just fine on my Media System setup.

Edit the file:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\eHome\EPG\prefs\atscchannels.xml

Removed the entire line referencing the KOLR station.

Launch Media center and manually add KOLR back in with the following information. Here is a quick link to do this: [URL="http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/mce/expert/elsbree_dec2004.mspx" [/URL]

Use this information

Digital TV Channel: 10-1
Assigned Frequency: 10
Name the Channel: KOLRDT

Hope that this helps someone else out.

OK well I felt like a sucker when I was out at my weekend cabin out near Ft Leonard Wood, turned on the TV, and was unable to get KOLR-DT on my converter box. I don't pay much attention to media matters from Springfield and had no idea KOLR had changed.

On a hunch, I did a quick re-scan on the converter box and viola, KOLR reappeared. Not only reappeared, but now comes in at above 90% which was only a pipe dream before the channel change. KOLR was the weakest of the Springfield DTV stations before, now it strongly competes with KYTV. I've got a big UHF/VHF antenna mounted high on our roof pointed at Fordland, with a cheap radio shack amplifier. I tried flipping the FM Trap in and out and it made little/no difference in signal strength getting to the converter box. I'll try removing the amplifier next time I'm out there since I have a feeling it might no longer be necessary, particularly since I changed from 300 ohm flat antenna cable to 75 ohm coax last fall.

I don't know if anyone else on the eastern/northeastern fringe has had the same success, but I'm pretty happy that I can now watch Craig Ferguson when I'm on vacation.

Joplinmo/Pittkan update:... I'm still researching why I get 25-9 and 25-10 with a black screen...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpdateTVMy Sony KDL-52W4100 TV got an update via this service this morning. I assume it was received via Springfield PBS station's sub channels 23-9 & 23-10.
http://rabbitears.info/market.php?request=updatetv

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/news-item.pl?news_id=273&mdl=KDL52W4100

When I turned on the TV, this was on screen:

http://i42.tinypic.com/eqnfh3.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/11bi0ds.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/10pbwvq.jpg

I got the same update on my SONY yesterday as well.

This afternoon, I was flipping channels and noticed "Bonnie Hunt" was being shown in Anamorphic squish. Image was 4:3 with sidebars and people looked tall and skinny. On some TVs this is fixable, but on others, the viewer is stuck with a weird looking picture.

rhoops, any idea what happened?

...VHF is dinosaur!! Go back to UHF!!!What he said, +1.

As feared, impulse noise interference on KOLR-DT 10 out here in the boonies is awful during area lightning events. My DVR'd Ghost Whisperer episode was unwatchable. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon13.gif

I'll do future CBS DVR'ing on KFSM-DT, UHF 18.

This afternoon, I was flipping channels and noticed "Bonnie Hunt" was being shown in Anamorphic squish. Image was 4:3 with sidebars and people looked tall and skinny. On some TVs this is fixable, but on others, the viewer is stuck with a weird looking picture.

rhoops, any idea what happened?
Yep. I was actually in Master Control when it aired. It was a 16:9 picture squeezed 4:3. The commercials looked normal. This was obviously a problem with the syndicator, but there was nothing to do but air the show and ask questions later.

The show is fed by digital satellite at 2 AM and re-feed at 10 AM but we were never told of a problem before it aired.

We don't have any way to convert or fix it. Hopefully it won't happen again.

rhoops,
Don't some syndicators distribute programming in two formats; 4:3 and anamorphic, to be stretched to 16:9? If so, it sounds like you got the wrong version of the show.

KWBM 31 may go dark on 6/12, and stay dark until probably winter, 2009. Application details here (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=742192&formid=337&q_num=5000).

KWBM 31 may go dark on 6/12, and stay dark until probably winter, 2009. Application details here (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=742192&formid=337&q_num=5000).

My money is that Daystar will have to move fast to build the 'new' KWBM and when it re-surfaces, it will do so with religion on it :(

Did Daystar buy KWBM at auction?

Did Daystar buy KWBM at auction?

Yes they did...KWBM will be another gospel huxter, just like the LPTV analog 22 (K22HS) in Eureka Springs, the VTN stations, and KWOG-DT Springdale AR.

Just what this region needs. :(
I *hate* K22HS. It's exactly where I point my rotor to get LR on a good day. The only chance I'll ever have of picking up katv 22 is when an act-o-god knocks K22HS off the air.

Haley, any word on the sale of KPBI, Eureka Spgs.? It's silent at the moment.

Haley, any word on the sale of KPBI, Eureka Spgs.? It's silent at the moment.

How long has KPBI been silent (this time)?

Just long enough for its one viewer to notice ;)

haley-SEA, it's on and off frequently, and often goes off after storms, staying off for days at a time.

ss, I don't think KPBI actually has "viewers."

Hey everybody, was just wondering if anyone had heard whether or not any of the Joplin-area channels are planning to add any subchannels like ThisTV or whatever else is available?

Was also curious about KJPX - I happened to drive past their studios on east 7th yesterday and noticed a sign reading something to the extent of "RETRO TV IS COMING FRIDAY." Of course, I have no idea *which* Friday, or to what they're even referring exactly - anybody else know? (Though it may not do me much good - I'm not sure if they even have a digital signal running at the moment, but if they do, I can't pick it up. But I was also never really able to get them on 47 analog, either.

The FCC shows KJPX-LP (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KJPX) on analog channel 35. They have no applications pending for DTV.
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/TX1298806.jpg (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KJPX)

Our old pal Mike "No Regard for the viewer" Scott is at it again. No Regard at least popped the $20 to super his precious weather crawls and bugs over HD on KY, but KSPR is a complete afterthought. They have to drop down to SD to do anything crawlish and if you ask me it looks VERY unprofessional and just plain b-rate. (I forget, No Regard likes B-rate crap as long as it isn't Branson tourist info)

ABC is scheduled to shut down their SD feeds VERY soon, and how is he going to accomplish anything useful if he can't revert them back to the ABC SD feed?

I'm really beginning to see how bad an idea it was for No Regard to get his hands on KSPR.

Yep. I was actually in Master Control when it aired. It was a 16:9 picture squeezed 4:3. The commercials looked normal. This was obviously a problem with the syndicator, but there was nothing to do but air the show and ask questions later.

The show is fed by digital satellite at 2 AM and re-feed at 10 AM but we were never told of a problem before it aired.

We don't have any way to convert or fix it. Hopefully it won't happen again.

Mulemuffins. Someone could have at least viewed the damn tape before it aired and grabbed a refeed if necessary. This is just laziness on the part of Nexstar's 'quality' engineering department. Any station I've ever worked at, we always prerolled the tape to make sure it was fine before airing and it only took us about 5-10 minutes to do so. I had this situation arise at a station I worked at and I'm here to tell you we had a fix for it before the viewer ever figured out there was a problem.

And frankly, I'm sick of hearing Nexstar's poverty cries when they can take on more stations and upgrading them, where as the "NEW" KOLR is still running on ancient equipment.

... I'm sick of hearing Nexstar's poverty cries when they can take on more stations and upgrading them, where as the "NEW" KOLR is still running on ancient equipment.Nexstar recently acquired yet-another-station, Little Rock's KWBF (now KARZ). It is in need of significant upgrades.

KOZJ-DT is off the air due to storm related power outages in Joplin. I understand that the tower of KSNF in Joplin, very close by KODE and KOZJ, has fallen this morning.

KSNF tower collapse story & photos:
http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/local_story_128103815.html

Nexstar recently acquired yet-another-station, Little Rock's KWBF (now KARZ). It is in need of significant upgrades.

They reportedly installed HD playback equipment at that POS station. That's what has me angry to say the least. They can spend $4 million on that POS and upgrade it, when fixing their core product would be cheaper and possibly make them more money.

Anyone else getting severe A/V dropouts on KOLR 10 during lightning?

Yes and you might be getting KY3 or maybe even Tulsa or Witcha's NBC on S. Dish.

I was at the in-laws near El Dorado Springs this weekend and their KOLR 10 signal was 98% consistently. Unfortunately I wasn't there during the storms so I can't report on the dropouts during the lightning. When they were UHF we would receive them about 90-95%. Their DTVPal box from Dish was showing channel 71-1 instead of 10-1 though.

I was at the in-laws near El Dorado Springs this weekend and their KOLR 10 signal was 98% consistently. Unfortunately I wasn't there during the storms so I can't report on the dropouts during the lightning. When they were UHF we would receive them about 90-95%. Their DTVPal box from Dish was showing channel 71-1 instead of 10-1 though.

It's a quirk in the software. You need to do a full rescan on the DTVPal to put it back on 10-1 where it belongs.

- Trip

Did KSN 16 go full power yet? I don't live there anymore, but my parents still do, and I read about a tower falling. I was wondering if that delayed things, or if it was old equipment?

rhoops, any news on a possible power increase?

... and I read about a tower falling. I was wondering if that delayed things, or if it was old equipment?

According to Joplin Globe, KSNF will be off the air for at least 30 Days. They were doing some work at the top of the tower, so there was extra equipment at the top.

Here's the Link to the Joplin Globe article-
http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/local_story_131211751.html

Dish Network is also receiving Springfield instead of Joplin, unless that's changed.

I'm not sure why KODE hasn't signed on a secondary channel to at least put KSNF back on the air. Maybe Rhoops can answer that one. I know there's equipment that needs to be purchased, but it seems to me the revenue lost more than covers that.

It just sucks for people that get NBC over the air have no way to get it right now. They are saying 30 days, that's a long time to be down. It seems to me they ought to be able to get a 12.2 running much faster than that.

When the KATV ABC affiliate's tower fell in central Arkansas in Jan. '08, they quickly leased a sub channel on another local's DTV channel. Then, they leased and modified another station's backup analog transmitter to their frequency, for analog service.

The good thing is, they ended up building a new tower at the main antenna farm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinall_Mountain) in West Little Rock, instead of at their old location which was farther away and in a different direction from the city's CBS, NBC & FOX transmitters.

Hopefully, KSNF will rebuild a better tower.

rhoops, any news on a possible power increase?
Nexstar is on board with the power increase. We've applied to triple the power to 60 KW ERP.

It's in the hands of the Washington lawyers and the FCC.

Evidently quite a few stations have the same idea. I don't know how long it will take to process.

Most UHF DT's that ran 5000 KW on analog, have 1000 KW on digital. That's 20 %.
Since we ran 316 KW ERP on analog, 60 KW would put us on an even footing with about 19%.

rhoops,

I found your suggestion to install FM traps to be quite interesting.

Have you any test data that indicates how much improvement in C/N ratio a typical viewer in your area might achieve with that simple step?

FWIW, yours is (so far) the only suggestion to install one of these that I've seen so far in discussing high-VHF reception issues on this forum.

Thanks!

Nexstar is on board with the power increase. We've applied to triple the power to 60 KW ERP.

...Evidently quite a few stations have the same idea. I don't know how long it will take to process.

...60 KW would put us on an even footing with about 19%.That's good news. It should help with people in the fringes who have lost KOLR-DT. I hope it helps with the impulse noise dropouts. Right now, I have to be sure and DVR CBS on KFSM-DT (UHF channel 18), so there won't be any dialog dropouts on the recordings, due to area lightning.

KFSM, KAFT in NW Ark. were approved to double power fairly quickly after they applied.

rhoops,

I found your suggestion to install FM traps to be quite interesting.

Have you any test data that indicates how much improvement in C/N ratio a typical viewer in your area might achieve with that simple step?

FWIW, yours is (so far) the only suggestion to install one of these that I've seen so far in discussing high-VHF reception issues on this forum.

Thanks!
We have no scientific data. We just found that in many cases they work.

We bought 100 of them and the receptionist hands they out like candy mints.

Where is really makes a difference is when a cheap pre-amp is in use. The good pre-amps have a built-in FM trap.

A strong FM signal can over drive the pre-amp and generate strange mixing products, particularly the 2nd harmonic. Channel 10 is 192-198 Mhz. A powerful nearby FM station at 96-99 Mhz can really screw things up.

Some set-top antennas have built in amplifers. If they have no FM trap and no way to bypass or disable the pre-amp they are useless in many cases.

We only recommend Channel-Master or Winegard pre-amps.

My memory might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that in the past KSFX has been able to run their storm-warning symbol with the picture in HD and then they would switch to SD only while running the ticker at the bottom (or maybe I'm just thinking of other stations). Well, on American Idol last night 50-55 minutes of the 60-minute show was in SD because of the storm-warning symbol. I was pretty disgusted and almost didn't watch it. I wound up watching half of it.

My memory might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that in the past KSFX has been able to run their storm-warning symbol with the picture in HD and then they would switch to SD only while running the ticker at the bottom (or maybe I'm just thinking of other stations). Well, on American Idol last night 50-55 minutes of the 60-minute show was in SD because of the storm-warning symbol. I was pretty disgusted and almost didn't watch it. I wound up watching half of it.

Fox has a half baked system to do HD that doesn't permit local overlay of HD signals. Even on WDAF they have to dump down to SD in order to run weather bugs/alerts.

Fox has a half baked system to do HD that doesn't permit local overlay of HD signals. Even on WDAF they have to dump down to SD in order to run weather bugs/alerts.

KOMU in Columbia (NBC) can overlay graphics on HD. Can KY3? KMIZ (ABC) can't either. I really like their weather coverage, but having a giant advertisement with the county graphic hogs 1/2 the screen. It was pretty sad to watch the 2 hour season finale of Lost in SD. I think KRCG is even worse with giant advertisements with their weather graphics. I don't know about Springfield, but I hope these stations and networks can get with it and get the technology to do these overlays on HD. HD has been around long enough for someone to have spent the money and implemented it already. I had a better picture watching Lost on Hulu than I did over the air.

I think KRCG is even worse with giant advertisements with their weather graphics.

OMG, that sounds like the height of tackiness...pssst don't tell anyone down south about that scheme, a couple of stations down this way would cotton onto that quickly.

KOMU in Columbia (NBC) can overlay graphics on HD. Can KY3? KMIZ (ABC) can't either. I really like their weather coverage, but having a giant advertisement with the county graphic hogs 1/2 the screen. It was pretty sad to watch the 2 hour season finale of Lost in SD. I think KRCG is even worse with giant advertisements with their weather graphics. I don't know about Springfield, but I hope these stations and networks can get with it and get the technology to do these overlays on HD. HD has been around long enough for someone to have spent the money and implemented it already. I had a better picture watching Lost on Hulu than I did over the air.

No Regard (aka the GM at KY3) put in the equipment to super WX over HD, and so can KOLR.

However, No Regard refuses to do so on KSPR, and that really bugs me.

They sure got that fancy Branson channel running local HD, though. LOL

OMG, that sounds like the height of tackiness...pssst don't tell anyone down south about that scheme, a couple of stations down this way would cotton onto that quickly.

I checked out your blog site. Is that the antenna setup you use? It looks like a VHF only antenna on the bottom of the CM antenna. Has that been working well for you? I have a separate Wineguard VHF only antenna and the same CM antenna, but I have them on two separate poles far away from each other. They go into a combiner with separate VHF/UHF inputs so the CM is really only doing UHF. The CM doesn't do well on VHF 8 so I had a lot of trouble with KOMU analog, and may also when KOMU moves back to VHF 8 after the transition.
Scott

I checked out your blog site. Is that the antenna setup you use? It looks like a VHF only antenna on the bottom of the CM antenna. Has that been working well for you? I have a separate Wineguard VHF only antenna and the same CM antenna, but I have them on two separate poles far away from each other. They go into a combiner with separate VHF/UHF inputs so the CM is really only doing UHF. The CM doesn't do well on VHF 8 so I had a lot of trouble with KOMU analog, and may also when KOMU moves back to VHF 8 after the transition.
Scott

The VHF antenna is for channels 7-13 -- its a Winegard YA1713. I didn't need that antenna, but it helps with making the signal on the Little Rock CBS station (KTHV-DT 12) strong enough to better resist much of the storm-induced dropouts, plus its a nice DX antenna. That antenna replaced a 4 element Jerrod VHF antenna for channels 2-13. I liked the CM 4228 for UHF too much to replace it. Both the CM and Winegard are connected to a CM7777 preamp---it has selectable separate inputs/amplification for VHF and UHF. (I have another older Radio Shack antenna (VU-190) I just repaired and put in service for FM and low VHF skip--its mounted on a pole on an outbuilding.)

The VHF antenna is for channels 7-13 -- its a Winegard YA1713. I didn't need that antenna, but it helps with making the signal on the Little Rock CBS station (KTHV-DT 12) strong enough to better resist much of the storm-induced dropouts, plus its a nice DX antenna. That antenna replaced a 4 element Jerrod VHF antenna for channels 2-13. I liked the CM 4228 for UHF too much to replace it. Both the CM and Winegard are connected to a CM7777 preamp---it has selectable separate inputs/amplification for VHF and UHF. (I have another older Radio Shack antenna (VU-190) I just repaired and put in service for FM and low VHF skip--its mounted on a pole on an outbuilding.)

I have the same preamp and kind of forgot about the separate inputs! I have read elsewhere that antennas need to be horizontally separated certain distances depending on the frequency and such. Do you have any trouble with the two antennas being so close? After seeing your setup I am seriously considering mounting my VHF right under the 4228 and then only needing 1 coax run and preamp.
Scott

We haven't heard officially yet, but the grapevine says that KOLR-DT will be allowed to increase power from 20 KW ERP to 40 KW ERP.

We asked for 60 KW ERP, but that probably won't be granted.

BTW, we've ordered another 500 FM traps to hand out. Today the chief engineer went to a viewer's house. The antenna was 90 degrees off. When he rotated that around the strength went to 40. He then spotted a nearby FM broadcast tower. He added an FM trap and the strength went to 90.

I have the same preamp and kind of forgot about the separate inputs! I have read elsewhere that antennas need to be horizontally separated certain distances depending on the frequency and such. Do you have any trouble with the two antennas being so close? After seeing your setup I am seriously considering mounting my VHF right under the 4228 and then only needing 1 coax run and preamp.
Scott

I'm not using the 4228 for VHF anymore, so I'm not concerned about the separation. Mostly that concern is for those stacking a matched pair of antennas for higher gain and front to back ratio.

We haven't heard officially yet, but the grapevine says that KOLR-DT will be allowed to increase power from 20 KW ERP to 40 KW ERP.

We asked for 60 KW ERP, but that probably won't be granted.

BTW, we've ordered another 500 FM traps to hand out. Today the chief engineer went to a viewer's house. The antenna was 90 degrees off. When he rotated that around the strength went to 40. He then spotted a nearby FM broadcast tower. He added an FM trap and the strength went to 90.

A person could make a good living going around and fixing things like this for people! ;)

A person could make a good living going around and fixing things like this for people! ;)

Good idea, but too many people do it for free. They are usually called "husbands". :)

KARZ-DT channel 44 (42-1) Little Rock has increased power as of Friday (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16518418#post16518418). There may be issues of KARZ and KYTV colliding during tropo enhancement in Newton and Searcy Counties (AR).

WTF!! KSPR dropping the ball big time for the Indy race right now!

Whats the deal with 33 at 2:30 the Iny 500, I just get sound no picture OTA and Direct tv no picture or bad pixalation?
My insigna tuner in the garage gets a picture. I checked the OTA signal on my Pioneer tv and it was 99-100% and 100% quality, but no picture, when it did have picture the cars were jerky, no pixulation.

KSPR must have a problem with? SD ch 19 ok, just can't get HD.

Guess I will get to watch the Indy 500 on my 13" tv in the garage.
Yipee!!

^^^ your lucky... can't pick up anything at all... even tried calling.. not taking any calls over at the station... wouldn't have done any good, but.

Very disappointing, and unprofessional for sure.

Direct tv just opened ch 86 and 387 for us to watch the Indy 500 in SD.
Guess thats better than 13" in the garage.
397 is HD but just shows CH not purchased.

Direct tv just opened ch 86 and 387 for us to watch the Indy 500 in SD.
Guess thats better than 13" in the garage.
397 is HD but just shows CH not purchased.

wonder if there is any way to get Dishnetwork to do this.

no problem here in ozark?

Nice, get to miss the end of the race... getting audio, no video... what a bunch of monkies!!!!

And on their website they say it's a problem between them and the cable & satellite companies... then why was my OTR out???

Goodie... getting the last 4 laps.

KOLR did some field testing last week & came up with the following.
1. One viewer lived within a 1/4 mile of a low power FM station that was not within the 96-99Mhz range. They had an outdoor antenna with no booster. The signal quality was around 45%. After installing an FM trap, the signal quality was 90%. The low power FM station was reading about 30db higher than KOLR before installing the trap.
2. One viewer had an indoor panel antenna laying on her TV. It was found that she was having interference problems so the hunt was on to find it. After going outside to get an angle on the interference, there was nothing to be found. Went back inside the house & saw the interference again. Turned off the VCR & DVD player & the interference was gone. KOLR was received fine. Standing the antenna upright helped with the interference but didn't eliminate it.
3. One site had aluminum siding with an indoor antenna which made it difficult to get any stations.

All other sites were simple issues.

"Interence..." "Won't go through walls well..." Sound like typical VHF DTV reception problems. Except you left out impulse noise interference.

The average viewer doesn't know or care what's causing the problems. They do know that KOLR-DT doesn't work as well as the other Springfield DT stations. I can no longer use it for recording shows, due to weather-dependent audio dropuouts. It was fine on UHF.

The only other station I have audio dropouts on is KAFT-DT on VHF 9 in Fayetteville.

Has anyone heard when the rest of the Springfield stations will be HD on DishNetwork? Fox and CBS are not enough, I want more.

I actually got a message from Mike Scott @ KY3/KSPR 33 today concerning the Indy fiasco & asking about the negotiations...

On the Dish issue, it does not appear to be moving as I had hoped. I have offered them the same deal we have with DirecTV and they have not accepted it. I asked them for an answer by this Friday or I’m turning over my negotiations to our corporate office. It may not expedite the process but perhaps we will have more leverage with all of our stations.



I’m sorry that I don’t have a better answer.



Michael A. Scott

President/General Manager

KY3, Inc.

This is very interesting... Nexstar is legendary in the business for demanding and getting paid well for retransmission consent.

If KY3 / KSPR 33 is asking for more than Dish pays Nexstar that would be a very bold move on their part.

Retransmission consent fees are typically very small. Something like $ 0.03 / month per viewer, and not all of that in cash. Often part of that is in the nature of advertising on the TV station. Mediacom and Dish buy a lot of advertising on KOLR and KSFX as part of their retrans agreement.

I actually got a message from Mike Scott @ KY3/KSPR 33 today concerning the Indy fiasco & asking about the negotiations...

On the Dish issue, it does not appear to be moving as I had hoped. I have offered them the same deal we have with DirecTV and they have not accepted it. I asked them for an answer by this Friday or I’m turning over my negotiations to our corporate office. It may not expedite the process but perhaps we will have more leverage with all of our stations.



I’m sorry that I don’t have a better answer.



Michael A. Scott

President/General Manager

KY3, Inc.

Sure not the answer that I hoped for.

Schurz is greedy. Probably asking more than Nexstar did and Dish said not no, but hell, no. I don't blame Dish at all.

Those two stations come in fine with antenna, anyway.

Has anyone heard any news regarding KSNF 16 in Joplin? They've been off for at least a month now I think, but I haven't heard any further updates on when they plan to get back up. Unless I missed it, their website doesn't even give any indication that they're off the air, let alone when it might be back.

Seems like it would have been simple to set up a temporarily subchannel on 12/43.2 or such, but no such luck there either...

Has anyone heard any news regarding KSNF 16 in Joplin? They've been off for at least a month now I think, but I haven't heard any further updates on when they plan to get back up. Unless I missed it, their website doesn't even give any indication that they're off the air, let alone when it might be back.

Seems like it would have been simple to set up a temporarily subchannel on 12/43.2 or such, but no such luck there either...

I'm with you there. But maybe they have to get permission from the FCC or something. That would take a bit of time, or I suppose it would, I'm not that knowledgeable about the process.

It would seem like a good temporary solution. All I remember is that they said they'd be down at least a month, or something along those lines. Surely by June 12th they'll have up in one incarnation or the other. I hope. ;)

I'm with you there. But maybe they have to get permission from the FCC or something. That would take a bit of time, or I suppose it would, I'm not that knowledgeable about the process.
When KATV's tower south of Little Rock fell, they quickly rented a sub-channel from another local station, to get back on the air digitally. Then, they rented another station's low power backup analog transmitter and modified it to transmit their analog station.

So, they probaly could've been back on the air by now if they wanted to badly enough.

The other station also already had the equipment to do the additional subchannel. It replaced existing programming with KATV programming.

- Trip

Its about 5:00 AM in the morning and I live in Thayer MO way out on the fringe of the Springfield Viewing Area. Got a new outdoor antenna with my amp and I'm getting KOLR-DT CBS Channel 10 about 50% and KSPR-DT abc Channel 19 at about 47%. When daylight comes that maybe a different story!

From the Jonesboro market I'm getting KAIT-DT abc channel 9 at about 55% all the time some pixilation of a daytime. and KTEJ-DT PBS channel 20 at 45% at after dark.

Wonder why DTV reception gets weaker of a daytime?

Because the sunlight charges the atmosphere and affects the way that signals are propagated.

You'll usually get your best such weak signal reception just before sunrise. The charges in the atmosphere diminish throughout the night and reach their lowest levels at that time.

Its about 5:00 AM in the morning and I live in Thayer MO way out on the fringe of the Springfield Viewing Area....

...Wonder why DTV reception gets weaker of a daytime?According to google earth, most of downtown Thayer has little or no DTV signal reaching it from the Springfield DMA. Jonesboro KAIT & KTEJ are a little stronger. Google Earth overlays are not always accurate, but I'd say you're lucky to be getting much of any signal from Springfield. KOLR-DT plans to up their power at some point, so that should help with fringe reception and hopefully, reduce dropouts.

Typically, TV signals just don't travel as far during most of the daytime hours. Humid summer mornings and evenings often yield better reception, sometime much better.

What antenna & amp are you using? How high off the ground is it?

http://i40.tinypic.com/jq4w03.png

Its about 5:00 AM in the morning and I live in Thayer MO way out on the fringe of the Springfield Viewing Area. Got a new outdoor antenna with my amp and I'm getting KOLR-DT CBS Channel 10 about 50% and KSPR-DT abc Channel 19 at about 47%. When daylight comes that maybe a different story!

From the Jonesboro market I'm getting KAIT-DT abc channel 9 at about 55% all the time some pixilation of a daytime. and KTEJ-DT PBS channel 20 at 45% at after dark.

Wonder why DTV reception gets weaker of a daytime?
It sounds like tropospheric ducting to me.
Its mostly a summer thing. Enjoy!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropospheric_propagation#Tropospheric_ducting

According to the FCC records, KOLR-DT has filed an application for a power increase from 20 KW to 30 KW ERP.

That's not as much as I had hoped for. When I have information about when the power increase will happen I will post it here.

A little extra power can't hurt. It might even help people with intermittent reception get a stronger lock. But it might also cause problems for folks in NW Ark. trying to watch Tulsa's KTUL-DT, also on ch 10.

I posted this in the Columbia thread, but since I'm between markets I just had to rant here.

I just got the chance to watch CSI from 5/7/09 on KRCG in Columbia. What a joke. Not only can they NOT overlay their ridiculous graphics over HD, but they can't even overlay them on the SD portion of the video! They actually shrink down the program video in a "picture in picture" frame so they can jam in the KRCG gigantic logo in the lower left, the county map in the upper left, and some advertisements that are unreadable because the quality is so bad in the upper right, all with a nice scrolling text in the top center! This takes the cake as the stupidest thing I have ever seen. It shows of a cheap, unprofessional operation that obviously doesn't care about the viewer. I'll have to post a picture or something because it is unbelievable. It has to be far worse than what the Springfield stations do!

The 0.15 dB difference between 967 and 1000 kW is not going to make any noticeable difference in coverage.

- Trip

Anyone know the highest level for VHF?
I found the following applications in the FCC database:

KVVU Henderson, NV Channel 9 currently 86 KW requesting 160 KW

WNTV Greenville, NC Channel 9 102.3 KW

WYES New Orleans Channel 11 Currently licensed for 70.8 KW, asking for 104. KW

KLVX Las Vegas Channel 11, Currently licensed for 105 KW

KSTW Tacoma, WA channel 11, Currently licensed for 12.5 KW, asking for 100 KW

KNTV San Jose, CA channel 12, currently licensed for 103.1 KW

KBMT Beaumont, TX Channel 12, licensed for 18.2 KW asking for 104 KW

30 Kw won 't be enough!!!! They should have applied for 40 or 60 Kw like someone had stated in one of the posting! That would have been better.
The consulting engineering firm recommended 30 KW. They supposedly think like the FCC does and know what would be approved.

It would be non-productive to apply for something that wouldn't be approved.

If we get 30 KW and there is no discernable interference with KTUL, then we can apply for yet another increase.

Comparing power levels is best done with the decibel (db). Doubling the power gives you a 3 db gain.

Going from 20 to 30 KW is only a 1.8 db increase. Going from 30 to 60 KW would be another 3.0 db for a total of 4.8 db.

Has anyone heard any news regarding KSNF 16 in Joplin? They've been off for at least a month now I think, but I haven't heard any further updates on when they plan to get back up. Unless I missed it, their website doesn't even give any indication that they're off the air, let alone when it might be back.

Seems like it would have been simple to set up a temporarily subchannel on 12/43.2 or such, but no such luck there either...

Yes, their website has been basically worthless without any news.

Has anyone heard any news regarding KSNF 16 in Joplin? They've been off for at least a month now I think, but I haven't heard any further updates on when they plan to get back up. Unless I missed it, their website doesn't even give any indication that they're off the air, let alone when it might be back.

Seems like it would have been simple to set up a temporarily subchannel on 12/43.2 or such, but no such luck there either...
I'm hearing they will resume operations on June 15th.

I found the following applications in the FCC database:

KVVU Henderson, NV Channel 9 currently 86 KW requesting 160 KW

WNTV Greenville, NC Channel 9 102.3 KW

WYES New Orleans Channel 11 Currently licensed for 70.8 KW, asking for 104. KW

KLVX Las Vegas Channel 11, Currently licensed for 105 KW

KSTW Tacoma, WA channel 11, Currently licensed for 12.5 KW, asking for 100 KW

KNTV San Jose, CA channel 12, currently licensed for 103.1 KW

KBMT Beaumont, TX Channel 12, licensed for 18.2 KW asking for 104 KW

Since I can no longer find, JT's post, let me post a more complete answer in response to yours, rhoops.

The FCC power limit for upper-VHF is a sliding scale. It's 305m 160 kW, which decreases in power as height increases, up to 610m 30 kW, then higher. I have a calculator for it on my website.

I calculated that at KOLR-DT's height, the hard power limit is roughly 65 kW or so (I don't remember off-hand), but that assumes no interference to stations like KAFT-DT or KTUL-DT. I'm guessing that one or both would receive interference above the FCC limit for KOLR-DT at a power level above 30 kW.

- Trip

...These power levels may cause interference with stations on the same frequency.Or adjacent channels, such as KAFT-DT (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1251460.html), ch 9 in Fayetteville, Ark.

My VHF analog channels are being attacked by FM signals. Looks like i need a trap!

Bet thats messing with my digital signals too?!!!!

FM intereference is the zig zag lines going across the screen right?.
If you are ever near the KOLR studios on E Division Street, drop by and ask the receptionist for your free FM trap. We buy them 500 at a time and hand them out like after dinner mints.

We just learned that on June 12, 2009 the callsigns will change from KOLR-DT to KOLR-TV and from KSFX-DT to KSFX-TV.

This means we will be re-making lots of ID's and promos. The tricky part is that presumably the PSIP callsign will change. We are all wondering whether this will require a re-scan on some sets.

I don't think it will. We will have to try an experiment to see if it does.

After all that we've been through it would really be irritating to find that a change of the PSIP callsign makes us invisible again.

Technically, the FCC has said that you can apply to keep the -DT without a fee, I think.

- Trip

The tricky part is that presumably the PSIP callsign will change. We are all wondering whether this will require a re-scan on some sets.
As long as your RF channel and TSID (which should never change) remains the same you should be fine. Ozarks Public Television has changed channel banners (OPT1, OPT HD, OPT Ed, Create, KSMU, Cable24) several times with no ill effects. Worst case scenario is some boxes continue to display the old channel banner name until a rescan.

What's up with KSPR going to SD when the weather crawl is on? I thought they could do an HD crawl.

i've never seen them stay hd with a crawl. and it was getting pretty annoying since it was only 2 counties north of us that no other station was even reporting. Also like how they broke in with 1.37 to go in the game to give us the exact same warning instead of waiting til the game ended

I hear that KYTV analog will continue on for a few weeks after June 12th, but no longer simulcasting KYTV programming. They will run some sort of filler program and periodic announcements that it's time to really get serious about DTV reception equipment.

I use a Outdoor Antenna with FM Trap and AMP.

Pointed in different directions toward their transmitters.

Here is a list of the channels I was getting last night 6-8-09.

ST. Louis MO

KMOV-DT 24
KPLR-DT 26
KDNL-DT 31
KSDK-DT 35
KTVI-DT 43

Memphis TN

WPTY-DT 25
WREG-DT 28
WKNO-DT 29
WLMT-DT 31
WPXX-DT 51
WHBQ-DT 52 Moving back to 13 Friday. Might improve coverage area!
WMC-DT 53 Moving back to 5 Friday. Might improve coverage area!

Little ROCK AR

KTHV-DT 12
KATV-DT 22
KLRT-DT 30
KARK-DT 32
KARZ-DT 44

Springfield MO The viewing area I'm in.

KSPR-DT 19
KYTV-DT 44

Locals I always get.

Jonesboro AR

KAIT-DT 9 Moving back to 8 Friday. Might raise signal strength.

The weather conditions and air waves must have been just right.

Why do you keep deleting your posts?

I was flipping channels this morning at 10am and noticed that KSNF 16.1 DT is broadcasting a test on DT channel 12.2. :D

All they are running is a weather alert, but maybe they plan to start regular programing on the cutoff date?

I haven't heard how construction is coming on the flattened studio, ect. I hope it's coming along. But it would be nice if they can get NBC back up for the antenna viewers.

Meanwhile, a pretty test pattern and weather map is better than nothing. ;)

I was flipping channels this morning at 10am and noticed that KSNF 16.1 DT is broadcasting a test on DT channel 12.2. :D

All they are running is a weather alert, but maybe they plan to start regular programing on the cutoff date?

I haven't heard how construction is coming on the flattened studio, ect. I hope it's coming along. But it would be nice if they can get NBC back up for the antenna viewers.

Meanwhile, a pretty test pattern and weather map is better than nothing. ;)
Channels 12/16 said on yesterday's 12 news that 16 is shooting for Wednesday of next week, June 17, or thereabouts, on 12-2, with temporary studios at 12.

Channels 12/16 said on yesterday's 12 news that 16 is shooting for Wednesday of next week, June 17, or thereabouts, on 12-2, with temporary studios at 12.

HUZZAH! :D

That's good news. I've missed the channel even if I don't watch much NBC these days.

Thanks for posting! :)

Jopman, TwiceBitten thanks for the update!

Jopman, TwiceBitten thanks for the update!

You're welcome!

I guess someone snuck up and bit me, because I was Oncebitten and now I'm Twicebitten...

*Checks for fang marks*

:D

great. no hd basketball tonight. thanks kspr.

According to KSPR, they may have HD weather bug overlay capability within a couple of months, if finances permit. If not, it will happen when they move into their new facility.

According to KSPR, they may have HD weather bug overlay capability within a couple of months, if finances permit. If not, it will happen when they move into their new facility.

Well, if No Regard would put his cash into KSPR before that POS branson tourist crap, maybe it would happen.

Mike "NO Regard" Scott can go sit with the Nexstar engineers in screwing themselves.

I've got alternatives, and yes, I will use them. NO SD for me.

...I've got alternatives...Same here. If KSPR switches to SD, I switch to KHOG 29-1, Fayetteville (although they often have their own issues, usually audio sync).

Same here. If KSPR switches to SD, I switch to KHOG 29-1, Fayetteville (although they often have their own issues, usually audio sync).

Amen! Although I only have KMIZ and they can't do HD overlays either. Stations have had years to put the money into this technology and have chosen to spend it elsewhere. Let's find out how many station executives received bonuses, and maybe use that money instead to put out a decent product to their customers.

The Springfield MO stations need to invest in HD, taller tv towers, and more power! But some of them are at the max at UHF 1000 kW.
Taller towers?... I don't think so. KOLR and KYTV's towers are 2000 feet tall. The tallest tower in the US is only 19.2 meters taller. They are very impressive structures. The St Louis arch is 630 ft, the Washington monument 555 ft. and the Eiffel tower is 981 ft, 1052 feet if you include the antenna.

Plus, the Fordland towers are not exactly located at sea level, either.

(Still, I sure wish KOLR was in the UHF band with all the other easy to receive Springfield stations. Too much interference on VHF.)

...I can pick up Memphis TN before I can Springfield MO. And I'm in the Springfield MO Viewing area. But the FCC maps show Thayer MO outside the circle. You're in the Springfield Designated Market area. That doesn't mean you can receive their OTA signal - a lot of people in the DMA can't. It just means if you sub to satellite TV locals, they have to give you the Springfield stations. Memphis is easier to receive because most of the distance between you & there is signifcantly flatter than over to Fordland.

As the crow flies, I'm about 25-35 miles closer to some of the Fayetteville, Ark. stations. But most of the Springfield stations are easier for me to receive. The exception is KOLR-DT VHF 10.

Here's a major ponderable: On my Directv OTA guide, KWBM-DT showed up this morning. (No, I can't get it since its still in analog)

COMPLETE with programming grid starting at 6a tomorrow. Anyone care to guess on how KWBM can even try to get that POJ on the air?

Here's a major ponderable: On my Directv OTA guide, KWBM-DT showed up this morning. (No, I can't get it since its still in analog)According to the Ark. Democrat-Gazette, Eureka Springs station KPBI ch 34 (another formerly Equity Station) is supposed to flash cut sometime tomorrow afternoon. No one knows if it will actually happen until tomorrow gets here.

Since KPBI is/was a full power 1200kW analog, they must shut down analog tomorrow. If they don't flash cut to DT, they'll have to file a STA to temporarily go silent.

==========================
EDIT: KWBM is scheduled to flash cut tomorrow, along with KPBI. See:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=757910&formid=314&q_num=5040

Here's a major ponderable: On my Directv OTA guide, KWBM-DT showed up this morning. (No, I can't get it since its still in analog)

COMPLETE with programming grid starting at 6a tomorrow. Anyone care to guess on how KWBM can even try to get that POJ on the air?
They don't actually need to have the channel 31 transmitter on the air to get on DirectTV. They never disappeared from Mediacom channel 11 in Springfield.

The programming for KWBM can be found on Galaxy 18 multiplex Ku Digital transponder 5: 11,800 Mhz Vertical, 26,657 symbol rate, 3/4 FEC. All of the programming originates from Equity in Little Rock.

I'm sure that the satellite providers would take them directly off the satellite instead of having an OTA receive sites and paying to IP it back to the headend.

I sometimes like to watch RTN or Univision on this bird. They have a dozen or more TV stations on one transponder.

Interesting article about cable companies turning off analog on cable.
From PCWORLD
See link below:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/165545

Because some people don't have a Digital Converter Box yet and that what KMBC is doing intill next month.

Does anyone know what time tomorrow KYTV and KWBM are turning off their analog signals?

KY says 6:05 pm during the KY news at Six! (they put the ! there I didn't)
KWBM, you guess is as good as mine. Probably whenever they can find someone smart enough to hit the switches.

How can KYTV 3 stay on the air if the government is making all analog full power stations go off the air Friday?!!!!
Certain so-called "nightlight" stations will be permitted to remain on the air in analog to broadcast information about the DTV transition and possibly emergency information, not regular programming.

Somewhere there is a list of which stations in each market are designated nightlight stations. I seem to recall it was 1 or 2 stations per market.

How can KYTV 3 stay on the air if the government is making all analog full power stations go off the air Friday?!!!!

You misunderstand (slightly).

One station in each market is REQUIRED by the government to provide analog nightlight service for a short period after they and the rest of the stations in their market have all transitioned.

This keeps a short-term capability for emergencies and to serve as a reminder for the lazy to get off their asses and get digital.

From KenH's post elsewhere:


- A total of 118 stations in 85 television market areas will continue to broadcast an analog signal. This signal is called the 'analog nightlight program'. Regular programming will not be seen. Only DTV transition and emergency information will be transmitted. The analog nightlight program will end no longer than 30 days after June 12, 2009. Here is the list of analog nightlight stations:
http://www.fcc.gov/DA-09-1303A2.pdf

They don't actually need to have the channel 31 transmitter on the air to get on DirectTV. They never disappeared from Mediacom channel 11 in Springfield.

The programming for KWBM can be found on Galaxy 18 multiplex Ku Digital transponder 5: 11,800 Mhz Vertical, 26,657 symbol rate, 3/4 FEC. All of the programming originates from Equity in Little Rock.

I'm sure that the satellite providers would take them directly off the satellite instead of having an OTA receive sites and paying to IP it back to the headend.

I sometimes like to watch RTN or Univision on this bird. They have a dozen or more TV stations on one transponder.

You missed (as usual) the gist of this. Its well known here I do NOT and I repeat NOT subscribe to Springfield locals. (I refuse to pay for what I can get for free). I'm talking OTA. KWBM shows up as an available OTA option, yet as I understand it, they have no intention of signing digital on 31. (they plan to leave that to Daystar)

Ksnf to be back on the air in Joplin on june 17th on 12.2

I'm not sure what all happened today, but the result is that my in-laws in Newton Co., AR are now able to receive KOLR10 digital. they were unable to get it before. Whether KOLR boosted their signal today or it is the result of channel 31 going off the air I'm not sure. Whatever the reason my inlaws are very happy to be able to watch CBS programs again. Anyone else have a similar experience tonight ?
It was kinda weird how KY3's signal dropped after the switch tonight. I now know that they had a "glitch in the switch".

I'm not sure what all happened today, but the result is that my in-laws in Newton Co., AR are now able to receive KOLR10 digital. they were unable to get it before. Whether KOLR boosted their signal today or it is the result of channel 31 going off the air I'm not sure. Whatever the reason my inlaws are very happy to be able to watch CBS programs again. Anyone else have a similar experience tonight ?
It was kinda weird how KY3's signal dropped after the switch tonight. I now know that they had a "glitch in the switch".It's possible their reception improved due to the analog shutdown. They may have had co-channel or adjacent channel interference that no longer exists with so many VHF channels gone now. Another possibility is the weather. If their reception disappears when the weather changes, that would be the reason.

KOLR 10 digital is not watchable at all for me in bad weather any more since they moved to the VHF band. Every time it lightnings it becomes a mess of pixelization and audio dropouts.

.


http://i39.tinypic.com/bioy07.jpg

[QUOTE=arxaw;16641140]
KOLR 10 digital is not watchable at all for me in bad weather any more since they moved to the VHF band. Every time it lightnings it becomes a mess of pixelization and audio dropouts.


That happens to us on all channels to some degree. It does seem worse on KOLR 10. I think that for us it is the fact that we are using a preamp. It amplifies everything including interference. What happens during lightening storms is the same thing that happens when I key up my base cb. Before I started using the preamp the cb didn't have much effect on the tv, but with the preamp I dare not key up. I guess the dropouts and pixelation are just something we will have to get used to. Another one of the "perks" of DTV, lol.
Thanks for the input arxaw !

We do use a mast-mounted preamp, which might aggravate the problem, but it's necessary since the antenna is split to 5 tuners. However, we only get lightning dropouts on KOLR 10 and KAFT 9. Never on UHF. Both of these stations plan future power increases, so hopefully it will help. But I won't hold my breath. Many stations abandoned VHF for good reason.

At least I have an alternate CBS affiliate (KFSM Ft. Smith), so I no longer use KOLR for DVR recordings.

With a few exceptions, most Philips antennas now are crap.

Do you use rotor?

Don't have a rotor. Just use a compass and TVfool.com to get the Azimuth.

Probably need to get one?Definitely. Especially if you're in a borderline reception area outside a station's normal coverage area.

A rotor + your tuner's signal strength meter make tweaking the antenna aim a piece of cake. Right from your easy chair. :)

...On the Magnavox converter box you don't have to scan it if you don't want to. You can just type it a channel # and if something comes on that channel, it go into the main menu and add it! When you change to another channel it scans that channel a second before a picture appears.

With my RCA 74-76%. On the RCA you have to scan of no channels show up!

Anybody recommend any converter box brand?
The crappy walmart magnavox & rca boxes would be on the bottom of the list. The converter box with the best tuner for weak signal areas is probably the Zenith DTT901 (http://www.google.com/search?name=f&hl=en&q=zenith+dtt901). It's also sold at Best Buy as the Insignia brand. It's the same exact box with the BB "Insignia" house brand on the case. If you can't find a DTT901, check eBay.

I've seen the Zenith work flawlessly in a couple of instances where the RCA & Magnavox boxes only had intermittent reception on weak channels. YMMV of course.

Other boxes with excellent tuners for weak signal areas are the DTVPal Plus (http://www.dtvpal.com/) & DTVPal DVR (which also records).

I am up north and used to be able to receive KOMU on UHF 36 with 90%+ all the time. Now they moved back to VHF 8 and I get 45-60% at best. It is unwatchable unfortunately. Another example of how VHF was supposed to reach out better at lower powers in digital mode, but has proven otherwise in the real world. I have the Wineguard 7-13 only VHF with preamp and FM trap, the works. Oh well, nothing good on NBC anyway.

Has anyone confirmed KWBM's status?

On Analog VHF was better than UHF but thats a different story with digital!!!!

Seems like VHF stations don't have enough power now!!!!

Looks like KOMU Channel 8, only has 13.6 kW of power.

I got KOMU late one night in digital when it was on 36 with 40 % signal strength no pixilation and I live in Thayer MO.

Scottmo2020 how far are you from KOMU's transmitter? I am just curious, sounds like your not that far since you got a 90%+ on channel 36!!!!

As a crow flies according to google earth, I am about 56 miles from KOMU. I don't know what KOMU ran on analog VHF, but 13.6 isn't going to get to me. I'm probably going to have to try for KY3 with another UHF antenna which is pretty disappointing.

The increase in signal strength should help take the ones with some pixelation to having quite a bit less. On my TV at the Lake of the Ozarks without an amplifier, 10 is the best channel, but usually only at 30%. Rarely pixelates, except in a storm... still isn't that bad.

The only other channel I get full time though on that one is KMOS 15. Amplifier with an FM trap would help.

The increase in signal strength should help take the ones with some pixelation to having quite a bit less. On my TV at the Lake of the Ozarks without an amplifier, 10 is the best channel, but usually only at 30%. Rarely pixelates, except in a storm... still isn't that bad.

The only other channel I get full time though on that one is KMOS 15. Amplifier with an FM trap would help.

If you are getting KOLR at the Lake with no preamp then you are doing pretty good. You should be able to pick up KMOZ with a wet noodle for an antenna around here. I think it might be time for me to swing the antenna down toward Springfield and see how things go. According to the maps, I fall into the contour maps much more than Columbia. The problem is I live in a hole and to the South, I would shoot my antenna into the side of a hill. I am probably 50-70 feet lower than the average terrain around here. To the north, most of the distance I am higher than average in that direction so I had better luck toward Columbia. We'll just have to give it a go!

Oh, and my bad, I am about 65 miles from KOMU actually. KRGC is 15kw at 53 miles, and I have them 85%. KOMU being lower power and father away, I have little chance and neither do most Camden county residents.

scottmo2020, surprisingly, reception behind a hill is often possible.
See: http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/DTVtransitionRevisited.html

Since we're talking about nexstar's quality engineering department, they probably thought that circle was the Alltel Circle. Seriously.

As for KWBM...I don't even want to guess on this one...
http://www.news-leader.com/article/20090613/NEWS01/906130347/1007/news01/Some+lose+station+signal+after+conversion+mishap

Now, WTF? They hired Nexstar's engineers? I'm sorry, but its good riddance to this outfit. And as for Daystar not knowing KWBM wasn't in both formats, didn't they get that list of stations to go dark on 6/12?

I swear, these guys could pass for Nexstar.

...I wonder how much 30 kW of power will increase this circle?!!!!Not much.
See this map (http://i42.tinypic.com/ieieti.png) for a comparison. They are probably trying to overcome some of the interference problems common with DTV channels in the VHF band. Time will tell if there's any improvement.

Getting out of the VHF band would solve a lot of problems.

...I swear, these guys could pass for Nexstar.hmmm, they have been known to wear many company hats. ;)

Since KOLR 10's 20 kW of power is suppost to cover this whole circle?

I wonder how much 30 kW of power will increase this circle?!!!!

We may never find out. Nexstar's lawyers are still negotiating with the FCC engineers. Currently the figure they are closing in on is 26KW. Nexstar will probably have to withdraw the application and file a new one for that power level to get it through.

Although the FCC thinks a DTV should run 20% of the former analog power on UHF, they have different (smaller) numbers for VHF.

Antenna height is the major factor in coverage area. Doubling the power only leads to small increase in coverage area.

If you are getting KOLR at the Lake with no preamp then you are doing pretty good. You should be able to pick up KMOZ with a wet noodle for an antenna around here. I think it might be time for me to swing the antenna down toward Springfield and see how things go. According to the maps, I fall into the contour maps much more than Columbia. The problem is I live in a hole and to the South, I would shoot my antenna into the side of a hill. I am probably 50-70 feet lower than the average terrain around here. To the north, most of the distance I am higher than average in that direction so I had better luck toward Columbia.

I have the same problem with many trees and a hill just to my south in the way of the Springfield transmitters. When I get to the lake again (Might be a while), I'm going to try Columbia. It looks like I have much better odds to get those stations, especially KMIZ. Towards the NE, there are no hills at all. I think TV Fool picks up on the hill, but maybe a bit too much...
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d663ddd89cd288d

A friend of mine in Nixa ran into an interesting dilemma with regard to KOLR in particular (But its applicable to all stations) She HAD the RCA box. We swapped her to the Apex box, and her digital TV problems went away oddly enough.

The Insignia (rebadged Zenith), the Apex, or the DTVPal/TR-40 seem to be the best ones out there. The walmart ones are JUNK, no two ways about it.

Those FCC people don't understand there ideas of power level for DTV VHF aren't going to cut it!

It may take a while to shake out, but if higher power levels are indeed required, then when the FCC discovers this, KOLR will be ready to put out whatever power level is required.

So far the main problem seems to be FM interference and poorly designed consumer pre-amps.

I'm pushing get some highly directional antennas and spectrum analysers, then turn off the KOLR transmitter for an hour or two and see who's there and where they are coming from.

One of the main problems here is the demise of the full time radio broadcast engineer. Most stations hire some guy to come by a few times a year and do some paperwork. The people who run the FM stations on a day-to-day basis know next to nothing about transmitters. I think there is a lot of spurious RF out there in the 192-198 Mhz range.

Well, I finally got up the nerve to climb up on the roof. My roof is extremely steep and my antenna is mounted at the peak of the 2nd story. I swung my antenna from Columbia to Springfield, and I'm very happy. Even though I am shooting into trees and hills, I am getting great signals. Here's what I can get. I am in Camdenton. The channel numbers are the DTV RF channels

3-1 KYTV (nbc-44) 84%
3-2 CW15 (subchannel)
3-3 KY3 Weather (subchannel)
6-1 KMOS (pbs-15) 85% (back of antenna)
6-2 KMOSHD (subchannel)
6-3 KMOS Create (subchannel)
10-1 KOLR (cbs-10) 80%
21-1 OPT HD (pbs-23) 80%
21-2 OPT ED (subchannel)
21-3 Create (subchannel)
27-1 KSFX (fox-28) 88%
33-1 KSPR (abc-19) 92%

These readings were taken several times throughout the afternoon, when I typically have the lowest readings. Of course it varies plus or minus 3-4 percent at times, but the above is a rough average. These are all off of my Channelmaster 4228 with Winegard 8275 preamp. Now I only need 1 antenna and preamp, because with KOMU being on VHF 8, the old 4228 antenna has a null gain on VHF 8 and is pretty much useless there.

On another note, yes the Radio Shack preamps are poor quality according to most opinions in these forums. The noise factor is very high compared to Channelmaster and Wineguard. And, when the heck did the Winegard 8275 preamp's start selling for $38.99??!?! I paid $79.99 for the two I have. If you are looking for a good preamp scoop those up!

Scott... glad you made the decision to swing your antenna around. The Columbia stations for some reasons are just pissing in the wind with their broadcast signals. I live on the Johnson/Lafayette county line 8 miles south of Odessa, and while I get KMOS at 100 percent 24/7, KMIZ only comes in sporadically about 3 nights a week.... and their transmitter is only 15 miles further away. The thing is, I pull in KSFX with more regularity that KMIZ, at 120 miles! I get steady signal on KSFX at least 3 nights a week, sometimes more. KMIZ just increases their power form 48 KW to 125 KW... BIG DAMN DEAL. They are too cheap to even equal the broadcast power of KMOS? They applied for and was approved to go to 1000KW, but changed their mind... I guess they thought it cost too much, but DANG, there's alot of difference between 1000KW and 125 KW... you'd think they could have made a better compromise than THAT.. 325 or 500 KW wouldn't have been so bad.

Before KOLR ended analog back in April was their power reduced?


Yes, it was on half power from early February. The transmitter power amplifers were split in half, and one side converted for digital operation and a new DTV exciter installed.

The other half kept the analog exciter and half the power amplifers going until analog was terminated.

I'm south east of Springfield MO about 89.9miles from KSPR, KYTV, and KOZK, and 91.9 for KOLR and KSFX according to TV Fool.com, and in reality 110 from Fordland MO where the transmitters are located, the Springfield channels are dead at my house! And Springfield is 135 miles from my house.

Part of the reason maybe I'm using a RCA and Magnavox converter box. Or I"m outside the coverage circle too much!
You're definately on the fringe. The best advice I can give is to talk to your neighbors. If any get the Springfield stations find out what they have in the way of antenna height, pre-amps etc.

If you are bold enough and see a house with a 50 foot tower and a large antenna pointed toward Springfield, just ask them. As in real estate, location is nearly everything. If you are on a hilltop with a clear view to the west things will be much easier. At your distance, antenna height will be a major factor.

Scott... glad you made the decision to swing your antenna around. The Columbia stations for some reasons are just pissing in the wind with their broadcast signals. I live on the Johnson/Lafayette county line 8 miles south of Odessa, and while I get KMOS at 100 percent 24/7, KMIZ only comes in sporadically about 3 nights a week.... and their transmitter is only 15 miles further away. The thing is, I pull in KSFX with more regularity that KMIZ, at 120 miles! I get steady signal on KSFX at least 3 nights a week, sometimes more. KMIZ just increases their power form 48 KW to 125 KW... BIG DAMN DEAL. They are too cheap to even equal the broadcast power of KMOS? They applied for and was approved to go to 1000KW, but changed their mind... I guess they thought it cost too much, but DANG, there's alot of difference between 1000KW and 125 KW... you'd think they could have made a better compromise than THAT.. 325 or 500 KW wouldn't have been so bad.

According to the computer models and stuff, they would only gain 9 miles of coverage going from 125kw to 1000kw. Who knows how that would be in the real world though. Those same people think running 1/10th of power on VHF, just because the signal is digital, will still reach the same coverage areas. Most of it makes little sense except to highly paid brainiacks and politicians. You must be able to get KC stations quite well though right? I like being between markets because I can receive both, but neither very well which is annoying. I'm having much better luck with Springfield, but Columbia covers Lake of the Ozarks better for news and weather in my opinion. I had Springfield locals on DTV before I went all OTA. I always enjoyed watching KOMU's weekend crew and college students getting their first airtime! Sometimes it was hilarious, like when the anchor accidentally called one of the remote reporters "honey." Classic!

According to the computer models and stuff, they would only gain 9 miles of coverage going from 125kw to 1000kw. Who knows how that would be in the real world though. If computer models were correct, I should have no problems getting KOLR 10. I have a CM 4228 antenna with good gain for VHF 10 and a CM 7777 low noise, high gain preamp with FM trap enabled. According to TVFool, I have LOS to the transmitter and the FCC shows I'm within the predicted coverage area. KOLR 10 is plagued with annoying audio dropouts & pixelization.

If computer models were correct, I should have no problems getting KOLR 10. I have a CM 4228 antenna with good gain for VHF 10 and a CM 7777 low noise, high gain preamp with FM trap enabled. According to TVFool, I have LOS to the transmitter and the FCC shows I'm within the predicted coverage area. KOLR 10 is plagued with annoying audio dropouts & pixelization.

During the severe weather up here in the northland this morning, all of my Springfield stations looked good with maybe 1 dropout a minute for just a second. KOLR10 was unwatchable. Signal strength on average for KOLR was 80-84% but video pixelation and audio dropouts made it totally useless. It is too bad because KOLR does a good job with the weather, especially up north, when other stations don't care much. All I can hope for is KY3 breaking in or Tom Trtan interrupting the church programs on Fox27.

Having seen awful weather & electrical-related DTV reception problems on Little Rock and Fayetteville VHF stations since the beginning of OTA DTV, I never had much hope for reliable fringe reception of KOLR on channel 10.

If you'll look at other local reception threads where VHF DTV is being attempted, you'll see the exact same interference problems in other markets all over the country.

Having seen awful weather & electrical-related DTV reception problems on Little Rock and Fayetteville VHF stations since the beginning of OTA DTV, I never have much hope for reliable fringe reception of KOLR on channel 10.

If you'll look at local reception threads where VHF DTV is being attempted, you'll see the exact same interference problems in other markets all over the country.

It is amazing to see how VHF is not living up to the expectations. People in Chicago can't even get WLS in some cases! Philly is having the same type of problems. Too bad they didn't just standardize on UHF, because it sure would have been easier, at least for the viewers.

So far the Springfield TV stations have been doing great, except KOLR being terrible during any kind of noise. I have lost MyTV and Universal Sports that I did receive from Columbia, but gained a PBS station I think. I have plenty of PBS programming from KMOS and KOZK now, most of it duplicated but sometimes different. Even if KWBM comes back I have no chance of getting that OTA. Whatever MyTV is, I won't be watching it.

.........The programming for KWBM can be found on Galaxy 18 multiplex Ku Digital transponder 5: 11,800 Mhz Vertical, 26,657 symbol rate, 3/4 FEC. All of the programming originates from Equity in Little Rock...........I sometimes like to watch RTN or Univision on this bird. They have a dozen or more TV stations on one transponder.

rhoops, could you elaborate a little on what kind of equipment you use to view that mux on G18 (dish size?).

I occasionally have trouble (rain fade) with that 11800 tp using my .9 meter offset but can get it most of the time.

You may already know this but the main RTN feeds are now at:

AMC9 Ku @ 83W
11735 H 4440
DVB-S, 4:2:0 SD

"RTNEAST"

&

"RTNWEST"

Has anyone heard any talk of KOLR, KSFX or KSPR picking up any sub-channels? :confused:

rhoops, could you elaborate a little on what kind of equipment you use to view that mux on G18 (dish size?).

Has anyone heard any talk of KOLR, KSFX or KSPR picking up any sub-channels? :confused:
I'm using a 5 meter dish with a low noise digital LNB. Last time I tuned it in, the signal level was much lower than it had been before.

KOLR and KSFX have no plans to add a sub-channel. I hear the CW, currently on 3-2 will move to KSPR after the studio move.

There are people in far South Arkansas who often receive KSPR-DT 19. It really gets out there sometimes.

I'm using a 5 meter dish with a low noise digital LNB. Last time I tuned it in, the signal level was much lower than it had been before.

KOLR and KSFX have no plans to add a sub-channel. I hear the CW, currently on 3-2 will move to KSPR after the studio move.

5 meters, wow, that would be nice. Is it fixed on G18? I'd be glad to make room in my little dish farm for a behemoth like that. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/barkeywayne/Sat4dishroofview.jpg

Glad to hear KOLR & KSFX are not planning on adding sub-channels, and that the CW is going to move off of KY3, keep that bandwidth where it will be appreciated.

Personally I'd rather have RTN or ThisTv than the CW, if I had to choose a sub-channel, but with all the mess related to the RTN/Equity/Luken deal there is no telling what will come of that, those channels may be going away soon. :confused:

Thanks for the info!

I read earlier in the thread that you ahd the RCA box? My neighbor had it, and it was CRAP. I suggest you get the channelmaster box, I had the Zenith/Insignia, and it worked very well... but the channelmaster has a SLIGHT edge on holding onto the weak stations. With the channelmaster, I get steady, pixel free reception with the signal meter above 20 percent. The insignia had to be up to 40 percent for that. But in Thayer, I think you really need the channelmaster box, I think it's the only one that could pull in reliable signal for you. I guess your'e a bit too far away to get any of the translators in Poplar Bluff? KPOB looks like it might be gettable for you if your'e lucky. What antenna do you have? I think with some tweaking you just might get those springfield stations, especially at night. What they REALLY need are some translators around Van Buren for the Springfield stations, it would really bring them in alot more viewers.

I'm using a 5 meter dish with a low noise digital LNB. Last time I tuned it in, the signal level was much lower than it had been before.

KOLR and KSFX have no plans to add a sub-channel. I hear the CW, currently on 3-2 will move to KSPR after the studio move.

CW: Not likely to happen until some major legal issues are resolved in regards to programming. There is way too much KY overflow that ends up on there and that's a very sketchy thing right now.

I'm curious to know where My programming will end up come this fall.

I'm in southeast Springfield and just hooked up a converter box to the TV and was amazed at what I was picking up. On sunday morning I was receiving KFSM 5.1, KNWA 51.1, KAFT 13.1, KOAM 7.1, KODE 12.1 as well as all of the Springfield stations. I have a rotor with an amp which helps, but I would like to make the antenna a little higher so that I might be able to get KAFT more often. They had some interesting programs on their subchannel 13.3. On analog I can get KWBM's low power channel 56 and also The Vacation Channel from Branson on channel 38 (which is surprisingly real clear).
What exactly does an FM Trap do for reception?

Thanks for the info about the FM trap. I have not noticed any interference as far as that goes.

Thanks for the info about the FM trap. I have not noticed any interference as far as that goes.

For you, any interference would only manifest itself as difficulty in receiving KOLR-10 (only).

KOLR is giving them out for free if you stop by and ask for one. Place it between the antenna and any amplifier you may have.

On digital, you won't get the tell-tall zigzag or herringbone interference that was visible on analog broadcasts, you just won't get a solid digital broadcast.

...With the channelmaster, I get steady, pixel free reception with the signal meter above 20 percent. The insignia had to be up to 40 percent for that. The signal strength/quality meters in TVs and converter boxes show a relative number and they are meaningless for A/B comparison of tuners. That being said, the CM box may have a slightly more sensitive tuner than the Zenith/Insignia. I have also read in the STB threads that many people have had problems with the CM converter boxes.

...I'm curious to know where My programming will end up come this fall.Probably on some 3-n sub channel. :)

I bought the channelmaster box from solidsignal.com. Arxaw... what problems have people been having? I'm wondering if it overloads easy, since It's so good at holding onto weak signals? Mine AND my brother's has not caused a drop of trouble so far. But my neighbor's RCA.. I hooked it up to MY antenna, and had dropouts GALORE, when with the channelmaster box, I get no dropout, 100 percent signal strength 24/7 on ALL stations. The RCA never registered mroe than 50% on the signal meter. I took it up to a friend's house in Kansas City. The RCA box STILL registered 40-50 % signal strength, and although he's in a basement apartment, he has a radio shack UHF loop hooked up to it, and he is 4 MILES from the transmitters. JT2009, your setup is not too bad, actually it's the EXACT same setup my mother has (She lives about 1/4 mile from me) however... I have bought her an XG-91, because she gets dropout in moderate wind, while I don't. You being as far away as you are from transmitters, you should get the XG-91 and use it with your radio shack amp (I'm assuming it's the mast mounted high gain model?) and poitn it toward Springfield. And if you STILL shoot craps, re-sell the thing on craigslist or ebay.... you'll get most of your money back out of it. I'd THEN use a VHF only and put it on a rotor (Unless you don't care about getting CBS, in which case you could just point it at Jonesboro, but if you can pull in Springfield ABC with the XG-91, you might just forego Jonesboro (ABC) and point your VHF at KOLR, that way you get all four major networks) My point is... with the spereate VHF and UHF, and a channelmaster box.... I think you'd have a fighting chance. Your'e in a stippled violet area for those stations, and our farm near Hume is in that same area for the KC stations, and they come in for us. I don't hesitate to experiment, because if something doens't work for you, there's always craigslist and ebay to re-sell it.

Tonight I put my secondary UHF only antenna up on the side of the house and pointed it toward Columbia. I forget the model, but it is an old Radio Shack UHF only antenna, the highest gain they had at the time. I had another Winegard preamp I put on it. I combined the Channelmaster 4228 with Winegard preamp with the Radio Shack antenna using a splitter in reverse. I thought I would have big time multipath problems, especially with KSPR because both antennas picked that up pretty well. Same with KMIZ 17 from Columbia, and KMOS in Warrensburg. Turns out I am getting everything from Springfield about the same as with 1 antenna, no noticeable problems right now. I am getting 17.1-17.4 from Columbia (uhf 17) and 22.1 Fox (uhf 22) from Columbia, along with KMOZ which went from 55-65% to 94% (uhf 15), and KNLJ from Jeff City (uhf 23 I think). Fox 22 took a hit, mainly because the RS antenna is barely off the roof line, kind of bent up, and probably not aimed exactly right, on a eve mount barely holding on! Ah, experimentation. What fun!

Some VHF DTV stations have moved back to their pre-transition UHF channel slot or are petitioning the FCC for a new UHF channel. Discussion of DTV on VHF here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1155836).

What's up with KSPR's new, very annoying sound every time it starts its weather ticker at the bottom of the screen? The tone happened about 10-15 times during two hours and was at least 50% louder than the volume of the show. It also cuts out 1-2 seconds of volume from the actual show. I found it very annoying and totally unnecessary. It wasn't like these were for tornado warnings either; it was from the thunderstorms a couple days ago, so I think it was thunderstorm and flash-flood warnings.

What's up with KSPR's new, very annoying sound every time it starts its weather ticker at the bottom of the screen? The tone happened about 10-15 times during two hours and was at least 50% louder than the volume of the show. It also cuts out 1-2 seconds of volume from the actual show. I found it very annoying and totally unnecessary. It wasn't like these were for tornado warnings either; it was from the thunderstorms a couple days ago, so I think it was thunderstorm and flash-flood warnings.
They could make it much softer (and most certainly will), but the tones are an FCC requirement. Every time the run a weather crawl they have to run the tones.

My answer to this is not to run the crawl any more than necessary.

BTW KOLR/KSFX has exactly the same weather bug system as KSPR.