The NFL has rules to protect their interests and the interests of the networks and their affiliates, understandably so. The St Louis Rams secondary markets are Cape Girardeau, Columbia, and Jefferson City. These are the only other markets that must show Rams road games. The network (Fox) decides which game will be shown, but almost always grants the local stations request. In short, KSFX ranks the Chiefs, Rams, Cowboys in that order, and decides what they will air accordingly, ratings and practical, common sense thinking be damned.

And since the Chiefs are AFC, they are on CBS 90 percent of the time, so it really comes down to if you want to watch any NFC game that's on at the same time as the ewes, your screwed in Springfield.

I remember the good old days before the Rams came to Missouri, Dallas was on every week. The Broncos (my team) were on a lot also.

It just seems like common sense to me, show a possibly exciting close game instead of a crappy team. Seems to me a whole lot of people would watch the former, and a very few people will watch the Rams. I may be wrong.

And since the Chiefs are AFC, they are on CBS 90 percent of the time, so it really comes down to if you want to watch any NFC game that's on at the same time as the ewes, your screwed in Springfield.

I remember the good old days before the Rams came to Missouri, Dallas was on every week. The Broncos (my team) were on a lot also.

It just seems like common sense to me, show a possibly exciting close game instead of a crappy team. Seems to me a whole lot of people would watch the former, and a very few people will watch the Rams. I may be wrong.

Never one to clap for a hearse, but it will be nice when they leave St. Louis. They probably won't avoid having home games blacked out before the season is over.

Edit: They will leave St. Louis eventually, the credit meltdown may have given them a stay of execution, but it is only a matter of time.

No regard is at it again. I'm flipping through the channels...and what do I find on 3? KY Analog! (yes on 3-0)

3-1 is airing the exact same stuff in digital.

I knew he had no regard for the viewer, but FCC regulations? KY Analog is supposed to be gone for good as I recall.

It's true. Unless it's really strong skip.
http://i36.tinypic.com/kc0bbr.jpg

Report unauthorized broadcasts here:
http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm?sid=&id=d1e640

:mad:

So here it is, 4th quarter, Dallas 10, Broncos 7 and KSFX is still showing the ewes getting blown out 28-0 by the 49er's

Good Call KSFX. At least you could switch mid game.

No regard is at it again. I'm flipping through the channels...and what do I find on 3? KY Analog! (yes on 3-0)
KY3 analog should be off again as of ~8:30pm central. When was the earliest it was observed to be on?

KY3 analog should be off again as of ~8:30pm central. When was the earliest it was observed to be on?

I was getting a very weak (as in "just there") picture and audio over my "skip" setup earlier this evening. It was interesting even getting it considering the poor propagation today in Central-Southeast Arkansas.

Has anyone verified this, what makes you think the station was actually broadcasting on ch 3 and not just some yahoo retransmitting their signal out of an analog ch 3 modulator near by?

Because the same broadcast was being seen all over?

Unless this "yahoo" was on a 2,000 foot tower... :D

- Trip

Why would a station pull a stunt like this? Are they asking for a fine or to have their license pulled? This should be interesting to see how they get away with this.

KY3 analog should be off again as of ~8:30pm central. When was the earliest it was observed to be on?

10am

My photo was taken/tagged @ 11:42AM on 10/04/09.

I was helping my wife's grandmother troubleshoot her convertor box Sunday afternoon, about 4 o'clock, and analog 3 was there. Imagine trying to explain to an 86 year old, that's been told for months that she can't watch tv unlees the box is turned on, that 3 rerally isn't suppposed to be there.

Oh and to the braintrust at KFSX, at 4 I was visiting in laws, rather than watch the sorry excuse for a football game you aired.

...this "yahoo" was on a 2,000 foot tower... :DThis yahoo was on a 2,000' tower. :)

I was helping my wife's grandmother troubleshoot her convertor box Sunday afternoon, about 4 o'clock, and analog 3 was there. Imagine trying to explain to an 86 year old, that's been told for months that she can't watch tv unlees the box is turned on, that 3 rerally isn't suppposed to be there.

Oh and to the braintrust at KFSX, at 4 I was visiting in laws, rather than watch the sorry excuse for a football game you aired.


That's taking it to extremes don't ya think?:D

Not that any one cares - I'm still getting KY3 analog with mostly snow. But, it is still there.

Maybe I'm seeing things, but no regard 3 had Oprah in HD on 10/14/09, not that I care about Oprah, just surprised.

'Bout time. Ft Smith/Fayetteville, Ark. stations have had HD time shifting capability for syndicated programming like Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy, Dr. Phil, etc. for quite some time.

yep, it was 16:9 ratio, I even made sure the cat hadn't stepped on the zoom button.

Watched the 1st minute of wheel at 6:30, not in HD, or at least 16:9. They may have switched it later, I don't know...sometimes ky3 forgets.

Anyone else have problems with KSFX on Sunday and Tonight? All the programs sunday (family guy, simpsons, american dad) the audio was glitching throughout. Now it was doing the same tonight during Glee. I am using Directv for my signal so I don't know if the problem is on KSFXs end or Directv. All I know is I am missing my New York HD DNS now more than ever.

That's why it's good to have an antenna for backup. And if it's screwed up on both OTA & D*, at least you know the problem is with the station.

yep, it was 16:9 ratio, I even made sure the cat hadn't stepped on the zoom button.

Watched the 1st minute of wheel at 6:30, not in HD, or at least 16:9. They may have switched it later, I don't know...sometimes ky3 forgets.Perhaps WOF was recorded at an earlier date than Oprah.

Perhaps WOF was recorded at an earlier date than Oprah.


WOF has been saying it's in HD for a couple of years. Came home for Lunch, and Ellen is not 16:9 either, and that show has been saying HD where available for a long time.

Yes, WOF has been shot in HD for a long time. But if the episode that KYTV ran wasn't recorded on HD equipment at the station, that would explain why it was shown in SD.

Thanks for the explanation, I've always wondered if the programs were streamed, sent from the big bird in the sky live, or what..

Many syndicated programs are sent to stations before the broadcast date, via satellite. They are recorded by the station for later broadcast.

Get ready for KSPR News in HD... Sunday night at 10pm!

kevin,
Thanks for the HD update!

Get ready for KSPR News in HD... Sunday night at 10pm!

Glad to hear that, I enjoy KSPR's news, but the sd picture quality is really bad, compared to the competition.

Glad to hear that, I enjoy KSPR's news, but the sd picture quality is really bad, compared to the competition.

Everyone else's news is SD as well, KSPR will be the only HD newscast in the area, until KY3 starts....

http://images.bimedia.net/images/ksprhd.jpg

Sneak peak into KSPR in HD

Glad to hear that, I enjoy KSPR's news, but the sd picture quality is really bad, compared to the competition.Yep, KSPR's SD picture quality has always been horrible. Going HD will be a huge improvement for the station.

The only other local news in HD I ever get is from Tulsa, and that's only when the wind's right.

yep, I know all the others are still SD, I was just saying that the picture quality of KSPR's news now is really bad compared to the others.

I am really fed up with so many forum posts saying they have trouble receiving KOLR 10 and the owner doesn't care. There is no station in this area that does as much to provide a high quality signal to its viewers. Their signal is not down graded with sub-channels as most others are. The station management and employees are available to listen and offer what help is possible in solving problems. They offered free FM traps to viewers requesting them. They have spent countless money with antenna changes and tower alterations. They have tried to make the best of a bad situation with VHS digital transmission. This problem was not anticipated by anyone with the FCC or anyone else before the digital transition took place. Testing had not indicated that these problems would exist. KOLR 10 seems to have made every effort possible to overcome the technical issue facing all broadcasters using VHS digital. Running a TV station is a business and this business is heavily regulated by the government as to what you can do and when. If you are a reader of this forum I cannot see how you can say that the owners of KOLR 10 do not care. Have you ever seen a response to concerns from any other station in the area? I for one would like to thank KOLR 10 and its management for being the only station in the area that does seem to care at all.

I am really fed up with so many forum posts saying they have trouble receiving KOLR 10 and the owner doesn't care. There is no station in this area that does as much to provide a high quality signal to its viewers. Their signal is not down graded with sub-channels as most others are. The station management and employees are available to listen and offer what help is possible in solving problems. They offered free FM traps to viewers requesting them. They have spent countless money with antenna changes and tower alterations. They have tried to make the best of a bad situation with VHS digital transmission. This problem was not anticipated by anyone with the FCC or anyone else before the digital transition took place. Testing had not indicated that these problems would exist. KOLR 10 seems to have made every effort possible to overcome the technical issue facing all broadcasters using VHS digital. Running a TV station is a business and this business is heavily regulated by the government as to what you can do and when. If you are a reader of this forum I cannot see how you can say that the owners of KOLR 10 do not care. Have you ever seen a response to concerns from any other station in the area? I for one would like to thank KOLR 10 and its management for being the only station in the area that does seem to care at all.

I don't know that it is so much KOLR owners and management don't care. Obviously it is in their best interests to reach as many as possible, because viewers directly translate to revenue. The fact of the matter is digital on VHF doesn't work as well as UHF for many reasons. Faced with that fact, it is now up to the owners/management to decide if it is worth it to move away from VHF. They will probably weigh the cost/benefit and decide it is too costly to go to UHF and will sacrifice the few people who complain about it. Most people will have no choice except to suck it up, and tolerate the audio and video dropouts associated with VHF digital. Coverage-wise, I don't think KOLR's digital VHF coverage is substantially smaller than it was with analog, except for extremely distant fringe areas that are probably not part of the Springfield market anyway.

For me, I have a choice to watch another CBS OTA station, but it is on VHF 12 and not much better than VHF 10. So if I want to watch CBS programming, I suffer through the picture break up and audio dropouts that cause my home theater system to go crazy. It is horribly annoying, so when it comes time to watch news and things like that, I choose another station now. I did end up quitting a couple CBS shows just because it is so annoying to watch. If people stop watching KOLR, things might change. Right now CBS is the #1 network and in a good position to not worry as much.

Scott

I am really fed up with so many forum posts saying they have trouble receiving KOLR 10 and the owner doesn't care. There is no station in this area that does as much to provide a high quality signal to its viewers. Their signal is not down graded with sub-channels as most others are. The station management and employees are available to listen and offer what help is possible in solving problems. They offered free FM traps to viewers requesting them. They have spent countless money with antenna changes and tower alterations. They have tried to make the best of a bad situation with VHS digital transmission. This problem was not anticipated by anyone with the FCC or anyone else before the digital transition took place. Testing had not indicated that these problems would exist. KOLR 10 seems to have made every effort possible to overcome the technical issue facing all broadcasters using VHS digital. Running a TV station is a business and this business is heavily regulated by the government as to what you can do and when. If you are a reader of this forum I cannot see how you can say that the owners of KOLR 10 do not care. Have you ever seen a response to concerns from any other station in the area? I for one would like to thank KOLR 10 and its management for being the only station in the area that does seem to care at all.

KOLR does NOT care about its viewers. They've had an 'engineer' in here ripping into the fact those of us who have bought HDTVs aren't significant to the viewership.

Also, KOLR demands and gets money from every pay service that carries them. They've got NO incentive to provide a decent signal when those viewers are getting their product for free. (Meaning they don't get my 50 cents a month)

I have an alternative to KOLR/KSFX and I refuse to pay for what I can get for free. And have YOU tried to get their half-baked signal OTA lately?? It can't be received in most of Springfield. The fact they went back to 10 in the first place when there were plenty of viable UHF channels is nothing more then CHEAPNESS on Nexstar's part.

So go take your Nexstar stock and shove it on Channel 52.

They have tried to make the best of a bad situation with VHS digital transmission. wtf is VHS digital transmission?


sneaky snooper,
Excellent last 2 posts.

VHF is a damned dog and should have never been allowed for DTV broadcasting. Europe abandoned it and the US should have, too. But the FCC smelled money and the money was in auctioning off the prime TV spectrum, the UHF band.

The only thing that might convince KOLR's owners to get a decent channel (UHF) is if mobile DTV becomes popular. It will not work well in the VHF band, and certainly not at current weakling ERPs.

I solved the VHF problem by not watching it any more.

Local newscasts this morning on KSPR were in HD. The picture looked great but the sound was noticebly boomy.

Gerontius

Local newscasts this morning on KSPR were in HD. The picture looked great but the sound was noticebly boomy.

Gerontius

Hi Gerontius. Welcome to AVS.

Very nice to see KSPR's news in HD. I was so excited, I even recorded it last night. Now are other local news channels looks sick.

Find out if a tower is coming to your back yard. It's a pretty clunky web site, takes forever to process. But it has some pretty detailed information.

Find proximity to Towers, Antennas - multiple & single

http://www.antennasearch.com/

Very nice to see KSPR's news in HD. I was so excited, I even recorded it last night. Now are other local news channels looks sick.

It was nice. Apparently KSPR has plenty of HD field cameras too. The sports highlights included a local soccer game that was in HD. Nice!

It was nice. Apparently KSPR has plenty of HD field cameras too.
The sports highlights included a local soccer game that was in HD. Nice!
The field cameras are indeed Panasonic P2 HD cameras. Not only are they HD, they record on a P2 memory card, so there are none of the problems that tape has.

Kudos to KSPR for being the first in the market. Note that Mike "No Regard" Scott had to approve this significant capital expenditure.

Congratulations, KSPR. Lookin' good!
http://i35.tinypic.com/2zq9bmd.jpg

(jealous, rhoops?)

Makes me want to watch KSPR's morning show in the morning.

Makes me want to watch KSPR's morning show in the morning.

Natalie Nunn in HD = well, I'm too nice to say it. But let's just say she looks good and leave it there. =)

Now, when do we get to see Maria in high def?

Natalie Nunn in HD = well, I'm too nice to say it. But let's just say she looks good and leave it there. =)

Oh yeah. :D

Jeez who is that clown in that picture? Oh well at least his weather graphics are in HD!

Congratulations, KSPR. Lookin' good!
(jealous, rhoops?)
Only partially. The manpower used in the KSPR newscast is pretty sparse. There is really only one crewmember involved, the producer/director.

No audio or tape operator, and no camera persons. No Character Generator operator or prompter or floor director. The audio sounds a bit strange because all mics are either on or off, and you hear a voice through 2 or 3 mics at the same time.

It has to be very carefully produced or it will fall like a house of cards. They have very little flexibility to add breaking news like a live remote for breaking news.

In some ways its "eye candy" at the expense of ability to cover the news in depth.

When KCTV went HD they also laid off 2/3 of their crew.

Since I've got more seniority than Methuselah, I'm not worried about my job, but it's a sea change in the way TV news is produced.

In a few years TV will be like radio at Clear Channel is now. 5 stations and only one person in the building.

We do at least have a floor director.

We do at least have a floor director.
Cushy! Does the talent work the prompter with a foot pedal or does the floor director do that?

Cushy! Does the talent work the prompter with a foot pedal or does the floor director do that?

Talent w/ pedal.

Where is all the switching done for kolr/KSFX? Still in Springfield?

KSPR,
Looks like you also now have HD time shift capability. Jeopardy looks great.

Where is all the switching done for kolr/KSFX? Still in Springfield?
For the time being. At the moment either KOLR or KSFX runs automated during much of the day. There is frequently one operator for both stations.

When new equipment arrives next year we will probably hub for Joplin or other stations. Quite possibly one operator running 4 or 5 stations.

Currently our traffic and business departments handle several other Nexstar stations.

Talent w/ pedal.

Is that for real or are you yanking the chains of the noobs like me?

To the average moron like me, it looks like loads of people behind the scenes are needed to make this happen! Wow.

...When new equipment arrives next year we will probably hub for Joplin or other stations. Quite possibly one operator running 4 or 5 stations.Like KFTA/KNWA are switched in LR, I guess. If they keep on, eventually, there'll probably be just one nexstar hub in Irving....

Like KFTA/KNWA are switched in LR, I guess. If they keep on, eventually, there'll probably be just one nexstar hub in Irving....
More likely a place with a lower cost of living than the DFW area. They need a good supply of workers for under $ 10 / hr.

Is that for real or are you yanking the chains of the noobs like me?

To the average moron like me, it looks like loads of people behind the scenes are needed to make this happen! Wow.
There are still assignment editors, producers, field photographers and video editors. And of course, reporters.

There is no videotape anymore. Field cameras record on memory cards and this is dumped into a computer at the station and edited on computer. The finished products is in the video server and the producer links it to the story in the computerized rundown. Any supers are entered by the editor or producer in the rundown.

With heavy computer assist they elimate the need for someone to run the still store, character generator, and videotape. Studio cameras are either robotic or fixed.

KSFX / KOLR currently takes a crew of 7 not including master control for a newscast. KSPR does it with 2,

KCTV's master control is in Atlanta, and KNWA's master control in in Little Rock.

With digital TV, the audio is embedded and audio / video levels are "fixed" as is the color. There is nothing to adjust so it's just a matter of getting show segments in the right place and in the right order. That's really no harder than stacking blocks or building something with tinkertoys.

Today's young people who have grown up with computers take to it very naturally. If you can build a facebook page, you can build a newscast.

...KCTV's master control is in Atlanta, and KNWA's master control in in Little Rock.

With digital TV, the audio is embedded and audio / video levels are "fixed"...I wish KNWA would "fix" their audio. Still screwy on local news. Out of phase, sound doesn't come from the center and they sound like they're in a well.

I wish KNWA would "fix" their audio. Still screwy on local news. Out of phase, sound doesn't come from the center and they sound like they're in a well.
I'll bet no one at the Studio actually listens to the off air audio. You'd think someone in management or engineering would have listened by now.

Obviously, they haven't, at least not on a surround system. It sounds fine on a 19" set with mono sound.

Talent w/ pedal.

I see. This explains why KSPR reporters are not in close-ups. The wide view shots keep them on the screen when they move around. Doesn't look a good as it should though. Not natural looking. The first rule of photography is to fill the screen.

I see. This explains why KSPR reporters are not in close-ups. The wide view shots keep them on the screen when they move around. Doesn't look a good as it should though. Not natural looking. The first rule of photography is to fill the screen.

HD news is much much trickier than SD is. HD is produced for a 16:9 ratio and SD is 4:3 (as a rule). In a sense, HD has to be shot with 4:3 still in mind which is a problem to say the least. (Mediacom, Directv and DISH center cut the HD feed for their SD customers...I don't agree with it, but I don't have to watch it either...since I have HD)

One other issue with KSPR are the inconsistent graphics. One minute I see the last names capitalized and the next they look normal, just in bold face like Michelle Sherwood which is consistent with the rest of their graphics. The putting the last names in all caps is ANNOYING to say the least and just isn't being too consistent.

The audio on the news seems too soft for my liking at least. I'm not sure where the problem is but I can tell a big difference if I flip to KY during the news.

...The audio on the news seems too soft for my liking at least. I'm not sure where the problem is but I can tell a big difference if I flip to KY during the news.Maybe it has something to do with the wider dynamic range of KSPR's all-digital studio(?)

I'm just curious if anyone else is having the same problem as me. Since yesterday afternoon my signal on all channels has gone way down. Before then the signals were very strong. I've tried several things with antenna, pre-amp, etc. By messing with those things and the connections The signals have seemed to increase some, but nowhere near where they were. I thought I would throw this out here in case I'm not the only one with the problem. I will wait to see if anyone else has noticed a drop in signals before I investigate further. Thanks !

No problems noticed here, 70+ miles from Fordland. Things to check:
Connector or coax may be loose or corroded.
Wind blew your antenna aim off.
Preamp going bad.
Tuner going bad (try a spare TV or converter box).

Thanks JT ! Maybe it was conditions. My signals seem to have come back up now. Hope it lasts. Thanks to you also arxaw ! I hope it's not my preamp going out, but time will tell.

Thanks JT ! Maybe it was conditions. My signals seem to have come back up now. Hope it lasts. Thanks to you also arxaw ! I hope it's not my preamp going out, but time will tell.

I am at Lake of the Ozarks and Channel 10 has been tough to get for the past 4 days or so. Not sure what is going on, but I used to get them 85-90% and now it is mid 70's at best with plenty of drop outs. It really isn't watchable anymore. The rest of the Springfield channels are great, even better than in the past with KY3 being the lowest at 86-88%.

Digital VHF sucks and I think I have some new source of interference. In analog days I could see it on the screen. Does anyone have suggestions on troubleshooting in the digital world? There must be something interfering with 10 but I have no idea what it would be.

...Digital VHF sucks and I think I have some new source of interference. Careful, some folks on here get all bent when you speak the truth.

Check the usual interference suspects around the house. New appliance or other electronic gadget? New FM station near your house? See FMfool.com to find out. If you have nearby FM station interference, get an FM trap and hope it helps. Neighbor have a new gadget?

There's probably nothing that will likely get you reliable distant VHF DTV reception, though. I've found nothing that will at my house. UHF works great.

The VHF stations don't give a damn about fixing the problem. They'd rather you just sign up for some subscription TV service, so they can get a cut from your bill every month.

Careful, some folks on here get all bent when you speak the truth.

Check the usual interference suspects around the house. New appliance or other electronic gadget? New FM station near your house? See FMfool.com to find out. If you have nearby FM station interference, get an FM trap and hope it helps. Neighbor have a new gadget?

There's probably nothing that will likely get you reliable distant VHF DTV reception, though. I've found nothing that will at my house. UHF works great.

The VHF stations don't give a damn about fixing the problem. They'd rather you just sign up for some subscription TV service, so they can get a cut from your bill every month.

Nothing new here. I wish it were that easy. I have had VHF 10 in for months with no problems until the past several days. I can't receive it well enough to watch. I have the Wineguard big preamp with FM trap already turned on. I was thinking about adding another FM trap but I would hate to attenuate any signal more than necessary. I suppose it could be anything. My next experiment will be to point my VHF 7-13 only antenna to Jeff City and see about getting KRCG for CBS but they are VHF 12 which also sucks. Can't be worse :mad: . I will put that through a combiner that separates/combines UHF and VHF so I don't hose myself with multipath.

The only big change around here are the leaves falling from the trees!

There has been an ongoing tropospheric ducting event that has included your area. It should abate in the next 24-48 hours.

If that was the source of your difficulties, then your reception should stabilize soon. If it doesn't, look for local sources of interference.

FWIW, I was near Cuba Friday and couldn't see even a sniff of KOMU and KRCG from the top of a 45' tower. Ironically, KPLR out of St Louis was also completely absent while the rest of the St Louis UHF locals came in fine on a 43XG. Screwy conditions!

Leaves dropping usually improves UHF reception for some people. Not sure about VHF, though.

My guess is you may have a new source of ch 10 interference in the area. I would shoot for ch 12 if you have half a chance of picking it up. Does TVFool show you have a shot at it (use their draggable mapping tool (http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90) for a more precise plot)?

One problem with VHFs is that most of 'em are too anemically powered to cut through all the noise out in TVLand.

There has been an ongoing tropospheric ducting event that has included your area. It should abate in the next 24-48 hours.

If that was the source of your difficulties, then your reception should stabilize soon. If it doesn't, look for local sources of interference.

FWIW, I was near Cuba Friday and couldn't see even a sniff of KOMU and KRCG from the top of a 45' tower. Ironically, KPLR out of St Louis was also completely absent while the rest of the St Louis UHF locals came in fine on a 43XG. Screwy conditions!
I believe this is the cause of my problems with signal loss. I turned on my CB radio yesterday and "skip" was coming in like crazy. In the past with analog signals it was obvious when these conditions were out there, but this is my first experience with "tropospheric ducting" since the digital switch. I will know now that this is what happens during these conditions.
As for KOLR10 being difficult lately, I too have had problems with dropouts and pixelizing similar to lightning. This has been happening even though there hasn't been lightning anywhere within hundreds of miles. It has been doing it here for a couple of weeks. Since I'm nowhere close to the others having these problems I assume it is not just something near me. I, like arxaw, agree that VHF sucks for digital tv ! I hope KOLR10 switches to UHF soon or figures out a solution before we lose interest in their programming.

Leaves dropping usually improves UHF reception for some people. Not sure about VHF, though.

My guess is you may have a new source of ch 10 interference in the area. I would shoot for ch 12 if you have half a chance of picking it up. Does TVFool show you have a shot at it (use their draggable mapping tool (http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90) for a more precise plot)?

One problem with VHFs is that most of 'em are too anemically powered to cut through all the noise out in TVLand.

KOZK and KY3 UHF have both been more stable lately. The football game on KY3 actually looked pretty decent last night. I wonder if they gave the main channel more bandwidth or something.

KRCG is running 15.1kw at 59 miles, and KOLR is running 26kw at 55 miles from where I am. When KOMU went from UHF 36 to VHF 8, I totally lost them with their 13kw of power using my Wineguard 1713 VHF only antenna and preamp. On UHF I had KOMU at 92% solid. If I put up that setup again and aimed it at KRCG I wouldn't be able to put it up as high as my main CM 4228 unfortunately. The only thing I can hope for is less interference on VHF 12 vs. VHF 10, and a little more gain on VHF 12 vs. the CM 4228 gain on channel 10. I may give it some time and hope the tropo ducting clears up with the upcoming change in the weather.

It's a lot of work getting free TV. It should't be this hard. I guess that is what I get for living where I do. Maybe I should just pay for it. NOT! ;)

I was able to tour KY3 and KSPR this evening, asked the guys that record the delayed shows why Jepordy was in HD and wheel of fortune was not.
They only have 2 machines that can record and play HD, and one may be used playing while the other is recording and that show does not get recorded in HD, They would try to get Wheel of Fortune recorded and played in HD tomorrow.
I would think it was a DVR and could record and play at the same time?
I should have asked?
Will watch and see.
KSPR studio was awsome.
Just like any studio, not the same as what you see on TV,

No Regard plans to take KY News HD within 60 days (I'm guessing right before Feb. Sweeps)

Also here's a juicy quote from No Regard II, aka Nexstar's GM:

"At the end of the day, viewers are going to watch the programming they like the most, and if it's HD programming, that's great," Gordon said, noting that recently added equipment shared by both stations is capable of running HD. "And if it's not, some people will still say, 'I sure wish it was,' but they're not going to stop watching because it's not in HD."

MULEMUFFINS.

Memo to Nexstar: If its not in HD, its not for me. I refuse to watch SD programming and I DO have alternate ways to see your half-baked programming. Nor will I subscribe to any pay service that carries your half-baked channels. I refuse to reward your lack of regard for me, your viewer, who gets you the advertisers. I've spent good money to get equipment that can support HD and if you don't choose to provide me with the content, I will find an outlet that will. And there's not much you can do to stop me.

Nexstar doesn't get the fact its us the VIEWER that gets their advertisers. If we don't watch, the advertisers do not buy. And Nexstar's advertisers can forget about my dollars.

No Regard plans to take KY News HD within 60 days (I'm guessing right before Feb. Sweeps)

Also here's a juicy quote from No Regard II, aka Nexstar's GM:

"At the end of the day, viewers are going to watch the programming they like the most, and if it's HD programming, that's great," Gordon said, noting that recently added equipment shared by both stations is capable of running HD. "And if it's not, some people will still say, 'I sure wish it was,' but they're not going to stop watching because it's not in HD."



Who is Gordon? What a rube. Is he too blind to see that every major TV show on any major network is in HD? Heck, even non-major programming is in HD! Was he just talking about the local news or something?

Gordon is Mark Gordon the GM of KSFX/KOLR (aka No Regard II).

He basically says 'if we have to spend money to get you HD, forget it...SD is good enough'

All moot if you can't reliably watch the channel.

All moot if you can't reliably watch the channel.

No kidding. My channel 10 problems persist. I don't know what the source of my new interference is but I am going to try climbing on the roof this weekend and inspect my antenna. KY3, KSFX, KXPR are all high 80's to low 90's pretty solid. KOLR gives me mid 80's, then mid 70's, then no signal, then back up again. It is all over the place. It used to be solid mid 80's with a couple drop outs every now and then. For a day it was OK but it is a mess now. I just can't watch it anymore.

Don't waste your time contacting the station. They will only try and blame you for something they'll say you're doing wrong.

What's wrong is the station clinging to an obsolete channel band plagued with modern day interference that didn't exist in the 1950s and is now unsuitable for OTA DTV broadcasting.

Don't waste your time contacting the station. They will only try and blame you for something they'll say you're doing wrong.

What's wrong is the station clinging to an obsolete channel band plagued with modern day interference that didn't exist in the 1950s and is now unsuitable for OTA DTV broadcasting.

And I think we can safely gather they did so to force people to cable/satellite so they can collect retrans dollars. Nice Try, Nexstar, but I, for one, will be watching the alternatives I have. =)

And I think we can safely gather they did so to force people to cable/satellite so they can collect retrans dollars. Nice Try, Nexstar, but I, for one, will be watching the alternatives I have. =)

JT, I don't know if you have high speed Internet where you live but if you do, there are plenty of alternate sources out there. Due to my horrible reception of KOLR, I had to use my alternate sources and was able to view what I needed. It takes a little work, but I would rather do that than pay for a subscription to something.

I climbed up on the roof today and messed with my antenna. Unfortunately there was no visible damage or anything wrong with it. That would be too easy. There was 1 leaf stuck in the bottom of it though! I adjusted it to max out my signal on KOLR and the best I can do is 78%. KSFX is 82%, KY3 is 90%, KSPR is 90%, KOZK is 80%. I suppose I'll have to see what happens. I am pretty solid at 78% for KOLR with few dropouts, but it's only been 12 hours and a big weather change, so here's to hope.

Did a channel scan this morning, and found RF 19.1 in the list. Turns out it's KSPR 33, but the channel mapping had gone awry. (33.1 wasn't in the list) But what was surprising is that for the first time ever, KOLR VHF 10 actually appeared! It's not a very stable signal, but it's the first time I've ever even had a hint of the VHF signal. I'm writing it off to atmospheric conditions.

Did a channel scan this morning, and found RF 19.1 in the list. Turns out it's KSPR 33, but the channel mapping had gone awry. (33.1 wasn't in the list) But what was surprising is that for the first time ever, KOLR VHF 10 actually appeared! It's not a very stable signal, but it's the first time I've ever even had a hint of the VHF signal. I'm writing it off to atmospheric conditions.Atmospheric conditions have been good for distant reception lately. This changed with the passage of a cool front through the Ozarks.

Atmospheric conditions have been good for distant reception lately. This changed with the passage of a cool front through the Ozarks.

Sure enough, KOLR VHF is gone now. At least I got a few minutes usage out of my VHF setup :-) Strangely, when KSPR showed up on 19.1 this morning, the Pioneer nor either Dish receiver could find 33.1 in a scan. Now, 33.1 has reappeared on them, but still shows up on the Polaroid on 19.1, but not 33.1. Going to have a house full of company later today, hope nobody wants to watch NASCAR while KSPR reads through the encoder's user manual and makes changes.

...33.1 has reappeared on them, but still shows up on the Polaroid on 19.1, but not 33.1. If the PSIP changed prevents one of your OTA tuners from seeing a station, a double rescan should fix it.

Disconnect the antenna.
Rescan the digital tuner (do a complete auto-scan, not "add new channels").
Unplug the TV/tuner from power for a minute or so.
Reconnect antenna, then power and do one more complete auto-scan for channels.

If that doesn't work, use the TV's master reset, if present in the setup menu. That will also wipe out any custom picture & audio settings you've programmed, plus favorite ch list(s).

I have DSL at 256k from Centurytel but I need to call and up the speed!

I also check my antenna all the time and there's nothing wrong with it either!!! Maybe some cobwebs on it thats about it!

Hope channel 8 don't mess up during the Nascar Race today!!! Would watch KSPR but can't get it over the air!

Did you say that you didn't have an amp? If not, you NEED IT. BAD. I don't care what anyone says, those radio shack Hi-gain amps work real good. We currently get all Kansas City locals with a 15 year old Radio shack UHF only and that same hi-gain amp. 65 miles away, and signal strength is over 80 percent 24/7. Also... don't underestimate the tuner. That Channelmaster box leaves most all others in the dust when it comes to pulling in stations. And when my channelmaster shows only 25-30 percent signal, it's a stable picture. It only drops out about 20 and below.

Did you say that you didn't have an amp? If not, you NEED IT. BAD. I don't care what anyone says, those radio shack Hi-gain amps work real good. We currently get all Kansas City locals with a 15 year old Radio shack UHF only and that same hi-gain amp. 65 miles away, and signal strength is over 80 percent 24/7. Also... don't underestimate the tuner. That Channelmaster box leaves most all others in the dust when it comes to pulling in stations. And when my channelmaster shows only 25-30 percent signal, it's a stable picture. It only drops out about 20 and below.

I use a Radio Shack 160 Inch VHF/ UHF Outdoor Antenna I bought this spring! "this is short as I can go" 62 FT RG 6 Quad shield Cable! My antenna is one a pole clamped to the side of my house. The antenna is 24 FT above the ground. I can't remember how far above the roof. I'll find out tommorow and edit this! The Coaxial Cable was also new!

I don't have a channel master box wish I did but I don't. I have a Dish DTV Pal Plus! Still have a Sanyo 19 Inch TV I bought from a TV Repair Man for $40 used back in the yearly 2000's. I say why waste a good tv?!!!! I'll get a new one when this one blows up!!!! When I get reception I watch all programs that allow it in widescreen. I don't like it scretched to full screen, the picture looks out of place now! Maybe its just me! I think stretching to full screen degrades the picture. If I had a HD set it wouldn't have the black bars at the top and bottom. And for SD black bars on the sides!

Example Crappy Models How I watch with Converter Box and Analog TV
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd141/johnt_bobcat/HD.jpg http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd141/johnt_bobcat/SD.jpg

The reason I leave them like this is so none of the picture gets cut off!!!!!

I use tv fool and a compass to know where the point my antenna for each location, the transmitters at my location are not all in the same direction. When I turn the pole because I try to get by without a rotor.

Took the Radio Shack Amp Off because it drown out some weak signals I get without it! I've tested it with and without and at my location seems to do better without! The Amp was a few years old! There could be something wrong with it too!

Since Tropospheric Weather conditions have gone away KAIT 8 from Egypt AR abc has returned to a signal strength of 74-80% It works good as long as certain vehicles don't go up and down the street it screws up!!! Lightening also messes it up!

At night sometimes after its dark outside I can get KTEJ 20 Bono AR about 54-64% and KEMV 13 Fox AR about 54-64 both stations are PBS. KVTJ 48 Truman AR about 54-60. But These don't work all the time!

The cities listed are Transmitter locations!

I can't pick up Springfield MO locals from Fordland MO. Probably because their 89-92 miles away!'

The Jonesboro AR locals are 55, 64, and 85 miles away!

PBS from Mountain View AR is 64 miles!

K38HE is a religious low power analog station at West Plains MO, 24 miles away. It don't work without an AMP!

Here's a look at my TV FOOL (Very Sad Looking)
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dbc273008413d5b

Take note KTEJ and KEMV's ERP is wrong on TV FOOL, AETN has not increased the power levels yet! KTEJ is at 50 kW and KEMV is at 4.05 kW. Which is terrible!!! I believe I might be able to get this one when they up the power KTEJ, 419 kW. KEMV 13, 12.1 kW. This one may start to work of a daytime but will probably pixilate! They plan to put a larger broadcast antenna and equipment to increase the power for KEMV this spring. I wish they would up the UHF KTEJ 20 to 419 kW. I believe it would be more stable than KEMV VHF 13!

Thank you guys for all your tips!!!! Please do share more it you would like to?????

You should try a Winegard AP 8275 preamp. I have read a lot of good things about it and mine works well. They are down to $38 at Solidsignal. I paid better than $80 when I got it. Unless this is a knock off junk version which I hope not, it would be much better than nothing for you.

You ARE in a real tough place... I've been to Thayer before, and it's a LONG ways away. But if I were you, I'd take the plunge and try that channelmaster box. Order it online, try it out.... and if it doens't do you any better, turn right around and sell it on Ebay. You'd get most of your money back out of it, I'm sure. when it comes to amps.... if it doesn't work better for you, then it don't. Your mileage my vary, as they say. I even KY3 and KSFX here 3 or 4 nights a week during the warm season here at my house. And I'm 128 miles from Fordland!

...We currently get all Kansas City locals with a 15 year old Radio shack UHF only and that same hi-gain amp. 65 miles away, and signal strength is over 80 percent 24/7. Must be nice to be able to receive everything on good ol' UHF. IIRC, Saint Louis is also an all UHF town. It sure simplifies antenna setup and gets rid of a lot of reception issues for the viewer.

You ARE in a real tough place... I've been to Thayer before, and it's a LONG ways away. But if I were you, I'd take the plunge and try that channelmaster box. Order it online, try it out.... and if it doens't do you any better, turn right around and sell it on Ebay. You'd get most of your money back out of it, I'm sure. when it comes to amps.... if it doesn't work better for you, then it don't. Your mileage my vary, as they say. I even KY3 and KSFX here 3 or 4 nights a week during the warm season here at my house. And I'm 128 miles from Fordland!

Yeah I live a long away from most transmitters! Thanks for all your help!!!!

Is this the right box? I want to make sure I know the right model to get!!!http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=CM-7000&d=Channel-Master-CM7000-ATSC--Digital-Converter-Box-CM7000&c=Digital Converter Boxes&sku=020572070003

I'm also thinking about trying a new AMP!

What might also help me a little is take my antenna down add 2, 3 FT poles screwed together on my already 24 FT pole. And put antenna back on at the top. Which would put my antenna 30 FT above the ground! But the only problem with this is if a add any more FT to the pole I can't reach it!!!

The CM-7000 has a very sensitive tuner. Will you see any improvement with it, over the DTVPal Plus? Hard to say.

What amp are you currently using?

The CM-7000 has a very sensitive tuner. Will you see any improvement with it, over the DTVPal Plus? Hard to say.

What amp are you currently using?

Currently I'm Not Using an Amp. I was using an Old Radio Shack AMP. But I've tested my reception with and without it and it seems my reception is better without the Radio Shack one.

If a signal drops to or below 54% on the Dish DTV Pal Plus the channel is unwatchable!!!! It also says this in the manual. Its true.

Using the RCA, Magnavox, and Zenith. The Dish DTV Pal plus decodes weak channels the others can't. Test results based on my location!

During Tropospheric duction weather conditions I had got stations mostly UHF out of Memphis TN, Little Rock, Greenville Greenwood MS, St Louis, MO, Cape Girardeau MO, and Springfield MO my local market. Got these without AMP!!! But these station come in and out!

Please share any tips you have with me! If you would like!!! Thank You Very Much!!!!

JT,
Things to try (other than moving):

A higher antenna.
An antenna rotor.
Separate VHF and UHF antennas.
A new preamp.
A different converter box.

Amps sold at rat shack over the years vary considerably. I have several in the junk box that do not help reception at my location. If your old amp made matters worse, it might have been defective or was just adding too much noise to the signal to be of any use for DTV reception.

I, and others on this thread, have had very good results with a CM 7777 (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=ANC7777) high gain, low noise V/U preamp.

Hey:

I've got one for you all.

I got a complaint this morning from someone who was helping an 87-year old gentleman who lives in downtown Springfield. He's trying to use an indoor antenna, and only gets 3/21/33. He's not expecting to get 10 on an indoor antenna, but was confused that a box he'd already programmed on his roof antenna at home showed zero signal for KSFX as well. He couldn't get it to show any signal regardless of positioning.

I'm rather surprised by this too and have no ideas. Any thoughts?

- Trip

JT,
Things to try (other than moving):

A higher antenna.
An antenna rotor.
Separate VHF and UHF antennas.
A new preamp.
A different converter box.

Amps sold at rat shack over the years vary considerably. I have several in the junk box that do not help reception at my location. If your old amp made matters worse, it might have been defective or was just adding too much noise to the signal to be of any use for DTV reception.

I, and others on this thread, have had very good results with a CM 7777 (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=ANC7777) high gain, low noise V/U preamp.

Thanks arxaw!!! That looks like the best amp I've seen! Based on how low the noise figure is! I will have to get one!!!!

Hey:

I've got one for you all.

I got a complaint this morning from someone who was helping an 87-year old gentleman who lives in downtown Springfield. He's trying to use an indoor antenna, and only gets 3/21/33. He's not expecting to get 10 on an indoor antenna, but was confused that a box he'd already programmed on his roof antenna at home showed zero signal for KSFX as well. He couldn't get it to show any signal regardless of positioning.

I'm rather surprised by this too and have no ideas. Any thoughts?

- Trip

Sounds like to me if you can't get KOLR and KSFX on a rabbit ear about 30 miles from the transmitter something is seriously screwed up with KOLR and KSFX!!!!!!

Maybe with digital 30 miles is too far away to get channels over the air on a rabbit ears.

Try my antenna trick outside the house!!!! It should work good being only 30 miles away!

I get channel 8 on it on a share tv using a zenith box. I'm 55 miles from KAIT.

During tropo I have got WMC 5, KATV 22, WREG 28, WKNO, 29!

Example

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd141/johnt_bobcat/AntennaTrick.jpg

Setup

Step 1 Get a VHF Dipole Antenna. From Radio Shack! $10 or online!
http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2159925w345.jpg
Step 2 Get a pole, or antenna mount, or anything else you can think of to use to mount it.
Step 3 Duck tape antenna to pole with antenna dipoles horizontal pulled out about 14 inches for channel 10.
Step 4 Run a coaxial cable inside house to Digital TV or converter box.
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ______

Antenna Trick Facts / Tips

- Will pickup VHF up to 55 miles, no joke!!!!
- Will pickup UHF!
- Only works if you live inside a local TV stations coverage area under non Tropospheric Ducting Weather.
- No Amp Needed
- Depending on your location you may need to fully extend dipoles.
- Will pickup VHF & UHF outside normal coverage area during strong Tropospheric Ducting Weather.
- VHF will not work during lightning.
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ______

Tips For Viewers Best Reception

- Have a good VHF/UHF Outdoor Antenna
- Use RG 6 Coaxial Cable. Cable lenght as short as possible!!!!
- Use a HDTV, Digital TV or Dish DTV Pal Plus or Zenith Converter Box if you can live with lower quality TV! But not bad since analog signals are gone for full power TV.
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ______

Fringe Viewer Info

- Point Antenna in exact location facing transmitter. (Use Compass and TV Fool If No rotor)
- Fringe Viewers are pretty much screwed!!!
- Pray for Tropospheric Ducting Weather!!!
- If your reception is little to none try an AMP get one with high VHF/UHF gain, and a low noise figure.
- Install FM Trap in between Antenna and AMP. If AMP doesn't have FM Trap on it.
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ______

Recommended Tips / suggestions for TV broadcasters Not already doing so!!!

- Think about Over The Air Viewers!
- Do whats best for All Viewers!
- Avoid VHF!!!
- Pick a UHF channel in the range from 14-51. That is not used by a nearby station!
- 1000 kW power
- 2000 FT transmitter tower

These recommendations will increase their coverage areas to the fullest as possible!
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ______

Things That Screw Up VHF

- Lightning!
- Certain Vehicles going Up the Street, Hwy, or road! (Depending on your location.)
- Running a vacuum, drill, or mixer!
- Turning on and off a light switch!
- Pulling the chain on a ceiling fan!
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ______

Digital vs. Analog

- Digital has better picture and sound than Analog.
- Digital UHF signal is stronger than Analog UHF signal.
- Analog VHF signal was better than Digital VHF signal.

____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ______

AMP Facts

- Amps amplify not just the signal but other unwanted garbage.
- If your plan to use an AMP get one with high VHF/UHF gain, and a low noise figure.
- Install FM Trap in between Antenna and AMP. If AMP doesn't have FM Trap on it.
- Old Radio Shack Amps only works for Analog which is Low Power Analog now!
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ______

Useful Websites

FCC TV Database
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=MO&call=&arn=&city=Springfield&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

FCC Engineering Maps
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/

TV Fool
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

REC Broadcast Query (Just Type In Callsign)
http://cdbs.recnet.com/fmq.php?facid=&call=KYTV&ccode=1&latd=&lond=&city=&state=&country=US&zip=&party=&party_type=LICEN&jaws=0

Rabbit Ears
http://rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=94

Tropospheric Weather Conditions
http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

UTC Time Converter
http://hurricanes.noaa.gov/zulu-utc.html

Meters to Feet
http://www.unitconversion.org/length/meters-to-foots-us-survey-conversion.html
KM to Miles
http://www.unitconversion.org/length/kilometers-to-miles-us-survey-conversion.html

KSPR Predicted Coverage Area (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1248539.html
)
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ______

I have a 30 year old UHF/VHF antenna that no longer picks up PBS and drops other channels out of St Louis. If you could suggest an antenna make/model that would best suit my needs, it would be greatly appreciated. I have not paid for TV for over 25 years and don't plan to start now. In the last week I began receiving channels from towers to the East of my house--St Louis is to the West...but I read elsewhere a omni antenna is not worth the purchase. Still, I would like to receive as many stations as pratical.

Here is some info on where I live:
" http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dbc27f38c0e061c"

Welcome to the forum!

If KETC is fine for PBS and you're not interested in WSIU PBS, all you need is a good UHF antenna suitable for your area. This one (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=4221-HD) should work well, aimed at approximately 258°, which is just slightly to the left of due West.

If you have more than one TV, or a long coax run, say over 75' or so, you may need a mast mounted preamp. But only if signal strength is low. This one (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=ANWHDP269&d=Winegard-HDP-269-SquareShooter-PreAmplifier-for-SquareShooter-SS1000-(HDP269)&c=Pre-Amplifiers&sku=615798396145) works well for mid range locations.

BTW, there is also a thread for St Louis area.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793006&page=509
Lately, though, they seem to be discussing computers!

SteveR

If you want to ensure you get KETC, pick up a medium range Yagi such as a 42XG or a 4-bay bowtie.

Hey:

I've got one for you all.

I got a complaint this morning from someone who was helping an 87-year old gentleman who lives in downtown Springfield. He's trying to use an indoor antenna, and only gets 3/21/33. He's not expecting to get 10 on an indoor antenna, but was confused that a box he'd already programmed on his roof antenna at home showed zero signal for KSFX as well. He couldn't get it to show any signal regardless of positioning.

I'm rather surprised by this too and have no ideas. Any thoughts?

- TripTrip,
That's odd. KSFX is usually the strongest Springfield channel I get. I can get it 24/7, using a simple indoor loop antenna. And I'm 71.5 miles from the tower. He's not using an amp is he? If so, the amp may be overloaded.

He may want to try this popular RS indoor antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103077). It has a larger UHF loop than most set top antennas, and often works well (KOLR 10 not included). I have one just sitting in the corner of the room that's picking up KSFX as I type this.

http://i50.tinypic.com/1z583y8.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/zjb3vm.jpg


JT,
This simple antenna in the post below, might help your situation
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17580830#post17580830
:)

Trip, On the FCC site, I see a ton of channel 10s operating or applying to operate at many times more power than KOLR 10. Several as high as 80kW.

It's ridiculous that KOLR 10 is only an anemic 26kW. What are the reasons for this, other than interfering with KTUL in Tulsa?

That probably is the reason. KTUL's non-directional antenna currently receives 0.46% interference at 26 kW, according to Page 20 of the paperwork KOLR submitted. (Remember the rule is 0.5%.) Once KTUL builds out their directional pattern, that number drops to 0.15%, and amusingly then WGEM becomes the station to protect with 0.16%.

Perhaps at that time KOLR can increase power further.

- Trip

What is with the video quality of the Chiefs game on KOLR today? It was horribly blocky during the fast motion shots. It looked like a channel with a bunch of subchannels and bandwidth constrained. Was it the CBS feed that was horrible? The commercials looked good. :mad: The late game looked a lot better.

Here in Bakersfield we wish KERO RF10 had an anemic 26KW! KERO only has 4.6KW! They have a construction permit to go up to a whopping 10.8KW! Bakersfield was an all UHF market for analog. It still has the illusion of being an all UHF market since KERO is virtual channel 23-1. Many people don't realize that KERO is really VHF.

That probably is the reason. KTUL's non-directional antenna currently receives 0.46% interference at 26 kW, according to Page 20 of the paperwork KOLR submitted. (Remember the rule is 0.5%.) Once KTUL builds out their directional pattern, that number drops to 0.15%, and amusingly then WGEM becomes the station to protect with 0.16%.

Perhaps at that time KOLR can increase power further.

- Trip
The KOLR transmitter has been set up to go to 63.2 KW ERP with a simple adjustment. That's a 20% of the analog power they ran. Most UHF's run 20% of their previous analog power. Many of the ills ascribed to DTV on the VHF band are really caused by running much less power than they were on analog. The KOLR-10 transmitter is running around 8% of the analog power they had before.

The KOLR transmitter has been set up to go to 63.2 KW ERP with a simple adjustment. That's a 20% of the analog power they ran. Most UHF's run 20% of their previous analog power. Many of the ills ascribed to DTV on the VHF band are really caused by running much less power than they were on analog. The KOLR-10 transmitter is running around 8% of the analog power they had before.So, compared to other Springfield channels, kolr 10 doesn't operate at sufficient power to replicate their former analog coverage area. At least someone finally admitted it.

KY3's owner, Schurz Communications to offer Wimax (4G) broadband internet to rural areas, in the markets they serve.

http://www.televisionbroadcast.com/article/90828

So, compared to other Springfield channels, kolr 10 doesn't operate at sufficient power to replicate their former analog coverage area. At least someone finally admitted it.
Yes, but that doesn't get you anything. We run at the power levels the FCC allows us to. We asked for 30 KW and got 26 so it doesn't do much good to ask for 60 KW.

We've also got a powerful channel 52 transmitter still in place. It would require a different antenna and changing a lot of filters, and some re-tuning, but a factory engineer could set it up for a different channel in a week or so, once the hardware was manufactured.

Having a driver's license doesn't give you the power to set speed limits or determine the rules of the road. Having a TV station license doesn't give you much influence over the FCC either. You can ask, but when they say no they usually mean it.

Wheel of Fortune was finally in HD this evening.

Since KOLR 10's allotted power is insufficient, the station's owner should do what many other stations (http://rabbitears.info/vhf.php) (that can't increase VHF power) have done; apply for a decent channel in the UHF band - where every other commercial station in your DMA, and Saint Louis and KC and Fayetteville/Ft Smith are broadcasting. There are plenty of UHFs still available in the Springfield market.

If nexstar's too cheap to do that, just get them to add kolr as an SD sub channel on KSFX. At least then, people in the fringes and people near FM transmitters and people with indoor antennas could watch cbs again, even if it's only in SD. The FOX splicer already has the bandwidth set aside.

Since KOLR 10's allotted power is insufficient, the station's owner should do what many other stations (http://rabbitears.info/vhf.php) (that can't increase VHF power) have done; apply for a decent channel in the UHF band - where every other commercial station in your DMA, and Saint Louis and KC and Fayetteville/Ft Smith are broadcasting. There are plenty of UHFs still available in the Springfield market.

If nexstar's too cheap to do that, just get them to add kolr as an SD sub channel on KSFX. At least then, people in the fringes and people near FM transmitters and people with indoor antennas could watch cbs again, even if it's only in SD. The FOX splicer already has the bandwidth set aside.

How about some fill-in translators? First one can go up in Lake of the Ozarks and I'll test it out for you... ;)

Like rhoops said, nexstar has a perfectly good 1,000kW transmitter just sitting there. All they gotta do is apply for a UHF channel and move.

Good to see (I guess) that they aren't like KOMU and sold their UHF right after the transition.

My KOLR woes are back. When it was very rainy and wet, I could receive it fine. That leads me to believe it is some sort of electrical interference. I remember back in the analog days KRCG 13 had a big horizontal line through it that scrolled down to up. There was a loud buzz in it also. When it rained it cleared up and grounded out the noise or something. Maybe that has something to do with it, but I have no way to track it down or troubleshoot it.

I was reading some comments in the Grand Rapids MI thread. A guy there said the local stations and advertisers better listen up and get this garbage cleared up. They don't seem to understand that the local advertisers are losing eyeballs to alternative sources like Hulu. The same goes for me. I have to watch all CBS programming elsewhere, so I see no local advertisements. Of course no one cares that a few thousand people can't get their programming and ads OTA anymore, because the money they save in electricity expense running BS power output makes up for fringe viewers they sacrifice. How much more would KOLR's power bill increase by running a big time UHF transmitter immediately? Those are real numbers that management sees on the bottom line right now. Plus all the revenue from subscription services as mentioned here a few times. Too bad..

KOLR 10 really does need a power increase to 63.2 kW.The FCC is not going to allow them to interfere with other ch 10s in the region. The only thing that will solve kolr's problems is if they move to the UHF band. Knowing Nexstar, that probably won't happen, either. A lot of Springfield area viewers are basically screwed trying to watch cbs, unless kolr decides to add CBS-SD on KSFX as a sub-channel.

Hey arxaw I'm thinking about getting a preamp CM7777!

When I get this do I need to get a FM Trap like KOLR 10 passed out for a while or is the FM Trap on the CM7777 good enough?The FM trap in the 7777 should be sufficient, unless you're really close to an FM station's transmitter. Then you're probably just SOL for decent VHF (whatever that is). To see how far away the FM transmitter towers are from your house, enter your address at:
http://www.fmfool.com

The FCC is not going to allow them to interfere with other ch 10s in the region. The only thing that will solve kolr's problems is if they move to the UHF band. Knowing Nexstar, that probably won't happen, either. A lot of Springfield area viewers are basically screwed trying to watch cbs, unless kolr decides to add CBS-SD on KSFX as a sub-channel.

The FM trap in the 7777 should be sufficient, unless you're really close to an FM station's transmitter. Then you're probably just SOL for decent VHF (whatever that is). To see how far away the FM transmitter towers are from your house, enter your address at:
http://www.fmfool.com

What other channel 10's are there? There aren't any in Joplin or Tulsa. Wherever they are, they have no range, just like KOLR.

Here's two I can think of. Take a look here!

KTUL (Tulsa OK)
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=35685

WGEM (Quincy IL) Which covers part Northeastern MO
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=54275

These are Digital Channel 10's in USA! Sorry but I couldn't get the Canada's and one Mexico out of the list, these near the end of the list!
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=&arn=&city=&chan=10&cha2=10&serv=DT&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

KTUL is channel 8 (see http://www.ktul.com/) and Quincy is too far away to matter.

KTUL only maps to their old analog channel number 8. They broadcast on RF channel 10.
(see: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=ktul)


.

KTUL is channel 8 (see http://www.ktul.com/) and Quincy is too far away to matter.

No, KTUL is on channel 10. It was channel 8 on analog.

And WGEM does matter, as a Longley-Rice interference analysis will show.

- Trip

Longley Rice analysis:
http://i49.tinypic.com/2nhm5uo.jpg

That page came right out of KOLR's application for 26 kW. It's not generally available, though I wish it was...

- Trip

JT, reliable reception is probably outside your reach, except for KAIT.

Have you considered just getting a dish network locals only package? The sat dealers won't tell you it's available, but it is. You have to ask for the "Welcome Pak" And you you have to buy the equipment up front.

Monthly cost is $9.99 for locals. Or for $5 more, you can get your locals plus:
AMC
Bloomberg
Boomerrang
CMT
Comedy Central
Discovery Kids
Food
Hallmark
History
TLC
MSNBC
MTV2
Oxygen
TBS
The Weather Channel
WE

That page came right out of KOLR's application for 26 kW. It's not generally available, though I wish it was...Trip, I got it from:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=kolr

No, I know, I meant there's no central resource to get interference analyses from any station on demand. If there happens to be one in the database, like there was for KOLR, then great, but otherwise...

- Trip

Ah, I understand now.

And thanks for the heads up on the FCC approving WINK-TV's request to jump off the leaky VHF boat (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-2456A1.pdf) from ch 9 to ch 50. I'm sure frustrated OTA viewers in that area will be happy.

Another V bites the dust.

Well, it won't be doing any dust biting for a while still, that's just the approval. ;)

- Trip

Today I decided to try and get KRCG VHF 12 from Jefferson City. I am about 59 miles from there and they run a little over 15kw. I put up my Wineguard YA1713 VHF only antenna with Wineguard 3700 VHF only amp with FM trap IN. The antenna is mounted on the back of the house, about 180 degrees different than Springfield, with the roof of the house pretty much totally blocking LOS to Springfield.

I ended up getting KRCG with 90%, but the picture was so bad it was unwatchable. The audio cuts out constantly. The signal drops down to 80, then back to 90, then down in the 40's, back to 90, zero, 90 and jumps around a lot. No amount of adjusting gets a better signal. It leads me to believe there is some electrical interference of some sort.

To eliminate things in the house, I started flipping breakers 1 at a time to see if killing something cleared up the signal. No luck. The signal mainly stays above 80 but there is just too much interference for a useful picture.

So in the end, VHF 10 at 190 degrees and VHF 12 at 36 degrees, and both are getting blasted with interference, with FM traps, two separate antennas (Other is CM 4228 old version), separate amps, etc. I also tried another Wineguard 8375 on the YA1713 and it didn't make much difference.

Is there any way I can hunt down the source of the interference? I don't know if it is in my house, but I don't think so. No new gadgets, appliances, fluorescent lights, any of that. I mentioned before it seems to get better when it rains. Maybe the electric company could help? I'm afraid I am pretty much out of luck for CBS OTA.

I am 1.1 mile from KCVO-FM 91.7 at 10kw at 319 degrees. They have been there for awhile though so I don't know if they are crapping up my signal within the last few weeks. I have heard them bleed through most of my less expensive FM radios around the house.

Thanks again all for any help!

...I ended up getting KRCG with 90%, but the picture was so bad it was unwatchable. The audio cuts out constantly. The signal drops down to 80, then back to 90, then down in the 40's, back to 90, zero, 90 and jumps around a lot. No amount of adjusting gets a better signal. It leads me to believe there is some electrical interference of some sort.

To eliminate things in the house, I started flipping breakers 1 at a time to see if killing something cleared up the signal. No luck. The signal mainly stays above 80 but there is just too much interference for a useful picture.

So in the end, VHF 10 at 190 degrees and VHF 12 at 36 degrees, and both are getting blasted with interference, with FM traps, two separate antennas (Other is CM 4228 old version), separate amps, etc. I also tried another Wineguard 8375 on the YA1713 and it didn't make much difference.

Is there any way I can hunt down the source of the interference? I don't know if it is in my house, but I don't think so. No new gadgets, appliances, fluorescent lights, any of that. I mentioned before it seems to get better when it rains. Maybe the electric company could help? I'm afraid I am pretty much out of luck for CBS OTA.

I am 1.1 mile from KCVO-FM 91.7 at 10kw at 319 degrees. They have been there for awhile though so I don't know if they are crapping up my signal within the last few weeks. I have heard them bleed through most of my less expensive FM radios around the house.

Thanks again all for any help!scottmo,
I wish there were answers. If it's any consolation, you are not alone in your VHF woes. The problems are nationwide. The only constants are that VHF DTV reception is difficult to impossible in some locations, and indoor antennas don't work worth a flip, which in the real world, is what a lot of people use in metro areas.

In my situation, V reception is very weather dependent. I've tried a 1713, an old-style 4228, two different preamps, no preamp and two FM traps. I still get eff'n dropouts on the two Vs I can receive. The audio dropouts are unacceptable.

You're probably getting FM interference and/or possibly electrical impulse noise - maybe from a transformer on a nearby pole. Getting your power company to address that is likely impossible.

The two VHFs I get were perfect on analog, even with my old 4228.


What Outdoor Antenna would you recommend for my location?!If my TVFool looked like that, I would not do OTA. I would probably subscribe to locals on Dish Network or get a very high speed internet connnection and watch programs online.

scottmo,
In my situation, V reception is very weather dependent. I've tried a 1713, an old-style 4228, two different preamps, no preamp and two FM traps. I still get eff'n dropouts on the two Vs I can receive. The audio dropouts are unacceptable.

You're probably getting FM interference and/or possibly electrical impulse noise - maybe from a transformer on a nearby pole. Getting your power company to address that is likely impossible.


So frustrating. I guess there is nothing I can do. I know I am in a "rural" area but it's not like I am totally out in the sticks. Being less than 60 miles from both Columbia and Springfield, I should get reliable OTA for the most part. I have done everything right, using good equipment, antenna placement, and so on. UHF is perfect from Springfield and Columbia.

I have two choices. I can get Charter starter cable, 22 channels for $9.99 a month and it goes to $19.99 after 6 months. That way I can use my SageTV setup without buying new HD-PVR's to record HD. Or I can tell the two CBS affiliates to KISS MY ASS and I won't watch them anymore, and just watch what I want from CBS by other means.

I think I'd rather save the $20 a month and NOT give the local stations a cut of my subscription.

Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving!
:p

On a hunch I took out one of my UPS's from a computer hoping that was my interference. I tuned in KRCG VHF 12 and even got KOMU VHF 8 with 80% + and a perfect picture! KOLR was 82% and great when I switched to the Springfield VHF antenna. Then an hour later it was in the crapper again. Signal jumping everywhere, totally unwatchable on all three.

I thought I got lucky. We even had the washer, dryer, Christmas lights, fish tank heater, two refrigerators, and kids air hockey table all going with a perfect picture, and no drop-outs when it was working. I must have some outside interference and I doubt I will ever find it.

After weeks of frustration I am quitting. I'll watch my CBS shows online.

Oh, and someone say goodbye to the small businesses of the Springfield market for me. I won't be seeing you any time soon or know anything about you! Be sure to thank KOLR and VHF for that. Maybe they will give you a discount on your advertising since they are saving so much money on their electric bill.

I put a call into the electric company this morning. Here's to hoping they find something! I get a terrible buzz on my AM radio in my house and a 1/2 block around my house approximately, so I am hoping they find something and give me good news. If they do, I'll be able to receive KOMU and KRCG from Columbia along with my Springfield UHF stations reliably, which will be extremely awesome!

arxaw, Look at this home made antenna in the Tulsa forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=446819&page=27 # 807 Looks good...

I put a call into the electric company this morning. Here's to hoping they find something! I get a terrible buzz on my AM radio in my house and a 1/2 block around my house approximately, so I am hoping they find something and give me good news. If they do, I'll be able to receive KOMU and KRCG from Columbia along with my Springfield UHF stations reliably, which will be extremely awesome!
Although the electric company has sophisticated equipment for finding the source of electrical noise, you can use a portable AM radio to help pinpoint the source yourself.

An AM radio contains a ferrite rod loop antenna, the null of this antenna is quite sharp. That is, it receives from most directions but there are two directions where the signal will be greatly diminished. This is the null off the ends of the antenna.

While listening to the buzz of the interference on a vacant frequency, rotate the radio until the noise nulls out. The lengthwise part of the radio will be pointing to the nulled out source. Walk to another area and do it again. Then again.

You will soon be able to triangulate the source.

arxaw, Look at this home made antenna in the Tulsa forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=446819&page=27 # 807 Looks good...

Here is a topic that really goes into detail about this 8-bay antenna. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798265 I have made 3 different ones and they all have worked well. Steel coat hangers rust and aren't good for the long haul. I used copper for one and aluminum for the latest one. It has 8" "whiskers" spaced at 7.5". Seems like that works best for me.

Estimated UHF Coverage Area!!!

But this is only a dream!!!

This coverage area may vary in reality if it was technically generated!

I would be happy if VHF digital on your map was real. At 26kw VHF 10 it is supposed to cover Camden county pretty well, but I can tell you that is a stretch.

Reliable VHF 10 reception in Carroll County, Ark. is also very iffy, compared to the Springfield channels in the main TV band (UHF).

Hey Arxaw! I placed my order in this Afternoon for the CM 7777 pre AMP!!!!

...You will soon be able to triangulate the source.My triangulation shows the source of the problem is a station trasmitting from Fordland on VHF channel 10.

My triangulation shows the source of the problem is a station trasmitting from Fordland on VHF channel 10.

(Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding) What do we have for him Johnny????

The FCC knew they couldn't get the big bucks auctioning off VHF 2-13. So they screwed us and auctioned off 52-69!!!!!!

So now some of the stations are being stubborn and staying on a VHF which are no longer the best channels for TV like when TV first started in the late 1930's and early 1940's!

Here's the truth which TV Stations on VHF don't want to believe! VHF now doesn't have enough power to operate on, Electrical Interference such as lightning or anything with motors running, turning on or off a light switch or pulling a chain on the ceiling fan, Certain Vehicles driving up and down the street, all of this causes pixilation and audio dropouts, making VHF completely unwatchable.

You maybe saving a lot on the electric bill but its costing you Over The Air Viewers!!!!!

They need to seriously be thinking about moving Digital TV to UHF 14-51 only!

Or invent a way to turn VHF 2-13, into UHF 2-13! Which is probably impossible!

WCPO 09 10 10 ABC Cincinnati, OH (Scripps)

07/24/09: WCPO has requested an increase in power.
09/18/09: WCPO has petitioned to relocate from channel 10 to channel 22.

* Licensed: 1000' 19.0 kW ND
* Requested: 1000' 28.0 kW ND
* Channel 22: 1000' 1000 kW ND

WCPO exit from VHF approved today, per Trip.

WCPO 09 10 10 ABC Cincinnati, OH (Scripps)

07/24/09: WCPO has requested an increase in power.
09/18/09: WCPO has petitioned to relocate from channel 10 to channel 22.

* Licensed: 1000' 19.0 kW ND
* Requested: 1000' 28.0 kW ND
* Channel 22: 1000' 1000 kW ND

WCPO exit from VHF approved today, per Trip.

Another smart Station!!!!

All the other Stations on VHF should do the same! Leave VHF!!!

UHF is now the band used for TV!!!

Lets play a little thought exercise.....

Imagine you are Mark Gordon, the GM of KOLR/KSFX. Perry Sook, the Nexstar CEO gives you a $ 100,000 for capital expenditure in 2010.

Here are your choices. You can do only one.

1. Switch to a UHF channel, and convert the existing transmitter, buy a new
UHF antenna and 2000 feet of 8" diameter transmission line and pay to have it installed.

2. Buy a new HD capable server that will allow broadcast of HD syndicated programming for both KOLR and KSFX as well as HD commercials. This will also allow for more automation, reducing labor costs.

3. Buy new studio and field cameras and upgrade the Avid system to allow real HD newscasts.

Personally, I vote for what's behind curtain # 2.

What's your choice?

disclaimer: this is not really a democracy and your vote doesn't really count.

Lets play a little thought exercise.....

Imagine you are Mark Gordon, the GM of KOLR/KSFX. Perry Sook, the Nexstar CEO gives you a $ 100,000 for capital expenditure in 2010.

Here are your choices. You can do only one.

1. Switch to a UHF channel, and convert the existing transmitter, buy a new
UHF antenna and 2000 feet of 8" diameter transmission line and pay to have it installed.

2. Buy a new HD capable server that will allow broadcast of HD syndicated programming for both KOLR and KSFX as well as HD commercials. This will also allow for more automation, reducing labor costs.

3. Buy new studio and field cameras and upgrade the Avid system to allow real HD newscasts.

Personally, I vote for what's behind curtain # 2.

What's your choice?

disclaimer: this is not really a democracy and your vote doesn't really count.

Interesting question. However, you've already got equipment still in place, ready to broadcast channel 52, if that was allowed, don't you? What do you have to do besides pick a new UHF frequency, file the paper work, and tune?

Interesting question. However, you've already got equipment still in place, ready to broadcast channel 52, if that was allowed, don't you? What do you have to do besides pick a new UHF frequency, file the paper work, and tune?

Probably why they don't want to use the channel 52 antenna and space on the tower (if it still exists) is because its HAAT is lower than the spot channel 10 antenna is using on the tower now. Reducing the coverage area to what KSFX's is. When on Channel 52 KOLR and KSFX had about the same Coverage Area!

Roops is right about having to changing the channel 10 antenna to a UHF one would make the new UHF Coverage better than it was on Channel 52!

But this would be nice whenever they could do it when the money is available!

Moving to UHF will solve the problems the Over The Air Viewers are having trying to watch KOLR!

We the Over The Air Viewers on all VHF Channels suffer from: FM Interference, Lightning Interference, electrical Interference- such as turning on a light switch, pulling a chain on the ceiling fan, and stuff with motors running, and certain vehicles going up and down the street!

All these problems make VHF unwatable most of the time!!!!

No I can't make this stuff up!!!!!!

I'm speaking for all VHF Viewers!!!!

disclaimer: this is not really a democracy and your vote doesn't really count.Then why even bring it up?

Perry sook doesn't give a sh*t about OTA viewers. He'd rather they all pony up for a pay service to watch his nexstar stations, so his company can get money from advertisers and viewers, via greedy retrans agreements.

[You already know the answer of everyone trying to use indoor antennas, or those out in fringe land, that should be able to, but cannot reliably watch kolr any more]

Lets play a little thought exercise.....

Imagine you are Mark Gordon, the GM of KOLR/KSFX. Perry Sook, the Nexstar CEO gives you a $ 100,000 for capital expenditure in 2010.

Here are your choices. You can do only one.

1. Switch to a UHF channel, and convert the existing transmitter, buy a new
UHF antenna and 2000 feet of 8" diameter transmission line and pay to have it installed.

2. Buy a new HD capable server that will allow broadcast of HD syndicated programming for both KOLR and KSFX as well as HD commercials. This will also allow for more automation, reducing labor costs.

3. Buy new studio and field cameras and upgrade the Avid system to allow real HD newscasts.

Personally, I vote for what's behind curtain # 2.

What's your choice?

disclaimer: this is not really a democracy and your vote doesn't really count.

I think you can do #1 and #2, by re-using your channel 52 transmitter.

Sell the channel 10 VHF transmitter, and take that money to modify your UHF 52 transmitter, get an antenna, tune it up, whatever. Then use funds to do #2.

Don't bother doing #2 without moving to UHF. You must certainly have some figures showing how many viewers you have lost by using VHF. Unfortunately those viewers don't amount to enough money to make a change. And, no one cares about HD commercials or how much MORE money the TV station will save on labor costs.

No offense, but they can do whatever they want because I don't watch KOLR anyway.

Interesting question. However, you've already got equipment still in place, ready to broadcast channel 52, if that was allowed, don't you? What do you have to do besides pick a new UHF frequency, file the paper work, and tune?
It's not that simple at all. The transmitter would require extensive modification, and many new parts. We're talking about hardware filters the size of 55 gallon oil drums. It would also require a new antenna, replacing the current channel 10 antenna, and the aforementioned 2000 feet of 8" transmission line. We're talking about 4 flatbed semi-trailer loads of very expensive stuff. Then there is the removal of the 190 foot high channel 10 antenna and replacing it with a new UHF antenna, probably by using a very heavy lift helicopter.

I'm not sure it could be done for less than $ 100,000. Spending the money for this would mean no commercials or syndicated programming in HD, and no HD newscasts.

We could do SD 16 x 9 newscast for very little investment and this will probably happen in the not to distant future.

Now if the other channel 10 stations move off we could simple crank up the power the 60 KW. Almost no cost there at all.

We know moving to UHF will never happen, so maybe we should just narrow it down to 2 or 3 then. And of course we could hope other channel 10's listen to their viewers and try to do something to improve their OTA, which in turn would allow KOLR to crank up their power, assuming they want to spring for the higher electric bill.

So I suppose I could go for some HD syndicated programming.

Something I found funny is Nexstar's St. Joseph MO station was actually considering doing DTV on VHF 2! Can you imagine? KMBC in Kansas City found VHF 7 sucked so bad for DTV, they moved back to UHF. Then, KQTV jumped on the chance to be on VHF 7. Wonder how that is working out for them.

We know moving to UHF will never happen, so maybe we should just narrow it down to 2 or 3 then. And of course we could hope other channel 10's listen to their viewers and try to do something to improve their OTA, which in turn would allow KOLR to crank up their power, assuming they want to spring for the higher electric bill.

So I suppose I could go for some HD syndicated programming.

Something I found funny is Nexstar's St. Joseph MO station was actually considering doing DTV on VHF 2! Can you imagine? KMBC in Kansas City found VHF 7 sucked so bad for DTV, they moved back to UHF. Then, KQTV jumped on the chance to be on VHF 7. Wonder how that is working out for them.

Look at this!
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=20427

KQTV has 72 kW ERP! But their tower HAAT is shorter than all at Fordland!!!

I bet channel 7 is a nightmare! Like all VHF!!!!

When I used to get KATV 7 analog sometimes out of Little Rock AR I used to have FM Interference on it!

How much could be saved by recycling an antenna? If KOLR wanted to move to, say, channel 33, could the old antenna and feedline from the WFXV analog setup in Utica be pulled down and transported for use by you? (I know there would not be enough feedline, but there would be some, at least.) How about their analog transmitter, could that be converted to operate digitally as your analog transmitter was? Might be cheaper than retuning the channel 52 gear.

Just thinking out loud.

- Trip

We could do SD 16 x 9 newscast for very little investment and this will probably happen in the not to distant future.Which if done on a decent UHF channel, would at least be watchable, and not plagued with missing audio. A pretty HD newscast isn't worth much if there's missing audio due to impulse noise dropouts. And if DTV mobile catches on, y'all are screwed. VHF mobile DTV won't likely work without a huge antenna and it sure won't work at the anemic power level your station is stuck with.

Now if the other channel 10 stations move off we could simple crank up the power the 60 KW. Almost no cost there at all.Ain't gonna happen. They're all sitting around waiting for that shoe to drop at other VHF stations, too.

Lets play a little thought exercise.....

Imagine you are Mark Gordon, the GM of KOLR/KSFX. Perry Sook, the Nexstar CEO gives you a $ 100,000 for capital expenditure in 2010.

Here are your choices. You can do only one.

1. Switch to a UHF channel, and convert the existing transmitter, buy a new
UHF antenna and 2000 feet of 8" diameter transmission line and pay to have it installed.

2. Buy a new HD capable server that will allow broadcast of HD syndicated programming for both KOLR and KSFX as well as HD commercials. This will also allow for more automation, reducing labor costs.

3. Buy new studio and field cameras and upgrade the Avid system to allow real HD newscasts.

Personally, I vote for what's behind curtain # 2.

What's your choice?

disclaimer: this is not really a democracy and your vote doesn't really count.

Better dig a little deeper in the pocket for #1 and #3....

Top mounted UHF Pylons run about 125K with another 100K installation. (Channel 52 antennas don't work on any other channels.) The wavelength of the "new" frequency will be different, and there are taboo frequencies where the impedance bumps caused by the connections between sections add to impossible levels, causing a system VSWR nightmare. New feedline is going to run 90-100K with installation. (You hit the fact the mask and second harmonic filters are not going to fly...) The operational costs of the electricity and IOT replacements every three years will also add up.

Studio cameras are available by adding a "studio" configuration package to cheap HDV cameras, but don't expect them to look as sweet as the 60K Sony with the 45K HD lens. The worst thing is when someone else goes HD, and the public can compare studio shots. Then you either put up or shut up to stay in the game. (But the horse is already out of the barn, and capital money will only be getting more scarce.) How many studio cameras does KOLR run?

Newsroom hardware is expensive. Field gear is cost effective, but the automation and playout servers cost an arm and a leg. What used to be a 270 megabit system needs to handle 1.3 gigabits/second. How do you archive stories that are 5 times the size of the old SD stories?

I assume you will need to put some weather and say lower thirds up in this HD newscast... Wx graphics can be upwards of 140K to upgrade to HD. The old Chyron will need revamping at 80K as well...

IF you have an upgradable server like the K2 or Nexio, the 100K will probably get the HD to air, but syndication will need a couple of HD H.264 satellite receivers with new LNB's to handle the old dish. (Let's hope PitchBlue really works, I have grave concerns on the new 1500 DMG box.)

And we haven't even talked about the new mobile, portable and handheld standard that will use 5.5 megabits of the 19.4 for a single stream. New encoder and possible exciter changeout, and no guarantee that a good business model exists.

I've said too much already....My head hurts.

Lets play a little thought exercise.....

Imagine you are Mark Gordon, the GM of KOLR/KSFX. Perry Sook, the Nexstar CEO gives you a $ 100,000 for capital expenditure in 2010.

Here are your choices. You can do only one.

1. Switch to a UHF channel, and convert the existing transmitter, buy a new
UHF antenna and 2000 feet of 8" diameter transmission line and pay to have it installed.

2. Buy a new HD capable server that will allow broadcast of HD syndicated programming for both KOLR and KSFX as well as HD commercials. This will also allow for more automation, reducing labor costs.

3. Buy new studio and field cameras and upgrade the Avid system to allow real HD newscasts.

Personally, I vote for what's behind curtain # 2.

What's your choice?

disclaimer: this is not really a democracy and your vote doesn't really count.

Supposedly Gordon has already bought that equipment for #2. At least that's what he told the SBJ that they have acquired some of the HD stuff.

http://sbj.net/Main.asp?SectionID=18&SubSectionID=23&ArticleID=85763 (dated 11/9/09)


Gordon said, noting that recently added equipment shared by both stations is capable of running HD.


So...what does this mean?

And incidentally, putting the HD gear in is all fine and good, but if NO ONE can get your signal OTA, its rather useless, no?


And while I'm thinking about it, how much longer until KRBK hits the air? I'm dying for an alternative to No Regard.

And while I'm thinking about it, how much longer until KRBK hits the air? I'm dying for an alternative to No Regard.

I was wondering that also. I am 15 miles from there and can't pick up their signal. What are they going to be airing?

How much could be saved by recycling an antenna? If KOLR wanted to move to, say, channel 33, could the old antenna and feedline from the WFXV analog setup in Utica be pulled down and transported for use by you? (I know there would not be enough feedline, but there would be some, at least.) How about their analog transmitter, could that be converted to operate digitally as your analog transmitter was? Might be cheaper than retuning the channel 52 gear.

Just thinking out loud.

- Trip
Good thinking. Channel 33 was on the same tower as KOLR with a good antenna and 8" transmission line. They had to take it down to avoid paying rent to American Tower. If only we had known then what we know now, we probably could have bought it, in place, for next to nothing. It probably cost them more to take it down that it was worth as salvage.

Supposedly Gordon has already bought that equipment for #2. At least that's what he told the SBJ that they have acquired some of the HD stuff.

http://sbj.net/Main.asp?SectionID=18&SubSectionID=23&ArticleID=85763 (dated 11/9/09)

So...what does this mean?


Certainly not a server capable of doing HD for syndicated programming and commercials. Ted's new weather graphic system can do HD. I think the Dekko character generator can do HD. The new production switcher is digital SDI, but not HD.

If we can find a few key pieces of equipment on the surplus market or e-bay, we may soon do the news in 16 x 9. Promotion would have to tread very lightly on this since it would not be real HD. That would be much like when we finally got a sat truck 25 years after KYTV did. All we could say was that our sat truck was the newest in the area.

As for new equipment in 2010, the cap-ex budget is yet to be done. As explained elsewhere there is only one viable choice, and that's # 2. That is no where near a done deal.

Good thinking. Channel 33 was on the same tower as KOLR with a good antenna and 8" transmission line. They had to take it down to avoid paying rent to American Tower. If only we had known then what we know now, we probably could have bought it, in place, for next to nothing. It probably cost them more to take it down that it was worth as salvage.

I thought of that too, but of course, as you say, it's too late. That's why I suggested WFXV, it was an analog on 33 in Utica, and it's owned by Nexstar as well so maybe the corporate folks would let you take the gear without having to allocate money to it (assuming it's still there). Plus, 33 appears to work though I of course can't do the interference study to prove that.

And what about reusing the analog 27 transmission line or the old 52 transmission line for at least most of the way up the tower?

(It's a shame co-owned KFTA is on 27, because that appears to me to be the only thing keeping you off of 27.)

- Trip

Here's a very off-the-wall idea...

KOLR and KTUL have a mutual problem, right?

KTUL needs to up its power on 10 as does KOLR.

KOLR has UHF options it could go to (like 33).

Why not offer KOLR's 10 gear to KTUL in return for some assistance (monitary or gear) to move KOLR off of 10?

This is a win-win for everyone involved. KTUL doesn't have to build out its Directional, and can boost power. KOLR can migrate Springfield to UHF only. Everyone wins!

Good thinking. Channel 33 was on the same tower as KOLR with a good antenna and 8" transmission line. They had to take it down to avoid paying rent to American Tower. If only we had known then what we know now, we probably could have bought it, in place, for next to nothing....Based on previous experience with trying to watch DTV on VHF (KETS 5 & KTHV 12 in LR), plus all the problems in Chicago, I warned of this impending VHF train wreck way back. But what do I know, I'm just an ignurnt ex-kolr 10 viewer in Arkansas.

I have doubts that 60kW ERP would solve your problems, either. Years ago, KTHV bumped from 27.5 kW ERP to 55kW, to try and eliminate reception problems. Indoor reception did improve somewhat, but impulse noise & FM interference problems still persist for them. DTV on VHF just doesn't work like people hoped it would.

...(It's a shame co-owned KFTA is on 27, because that appears to me to be the only thing keeping you off of 27.)Yet another stupid move on nexstar's part. Choosing 27 for KFTA prevented people in our area from watching KFTA until KSFX analog 27 shut down, post transition.

Yet another stupid move on nexstar's part. Choosing 27 for KFTA prevented people in our area from watching KFTA until KSFX analog 27 shut down, post transition.

In fairness to Nexstar, the FCC assigned KFTA to 27.

- Trip

Based on previous experience with trying to watch DTV on VHF (KETS 5 & KTHV 12 in LR), plus all the problems in Chicago, I warned of this impending VHF train wreck way back. But what do I know, I'm just an ignurnt ex-kolr 10 viewer in Arkansas.

I have doubts that 60kW ERP would solve your problems, either. Years ago, KTHV bumped from 27.5 kW ERP to 55kW, to try and eliminate reception problems. Indoor reception did improve somewhat, but impulse noise & FM interference problems still persist for them. DTV on VHF just doesn't work like people hoped it would.



So who are we trying to reach?


1.) Folks who cannot afford pay services.

2.) Folks who do not want VHF sized antennas outside.

3.) Folks who are below the current VHF threshold for reliable reception.

4.) Folks outside the predicted coverage and or DMA.

How much return on investment can be realized by reaching those who Neilsen does not recognize as viewers (outside the DMA)? Are those who cannot afford pay services the people advertisers want to target? Maybe if payday loans are the big local account, I guess.

The FCC is working on a new "Broadband Plan". If stations are required by congressional mandate to consolidate a single SD stream onto a community transmitter for their broadcast presence, the cell phone folks will be the source for HD streaming, which folks with iPhones will apparently shell out a lot of money for.

Springfield has always been a high percentage of Multivideo Program Distribution Service (Cable and DBS). Satellite delivery is very high in comparison to cable. If the stations feed the central receive sites for DirecTV, Dish and Mediacom with microwave and fiber, how many viewers would actually be lost?

In fairness to Nexstar, the FCC assigned KFTA to 27.True. But nexstar could've applied for another channel, like many stations did. But that's water under the bridge (unlike kolr's problem).

So who are we trying to reach?
1.) Folks who cannot afford pay services.True, some can't afford pay tv, but many people choose not to pay for TV.

2.) Folks who do not want VHF sized antennas outside.Got one, thank you.

3.) Folks who are below the current VHF threshold for reliable reception.Yes. Below the noise threshold for a reliable lock.

4.) Folks outside the predicted coverage and or DMA.I'm within the predicted coverage area of kolr (have LOS), and am in the DMA. Other viewers in my vicinity are in the same boat. They get everything easily & reliably, except kolr.

The FCC is working on a new "Broadband Plan". If stations are required by congressional mandate to consolidate a single SD stream onto a community transmitter for their broadcast presence, the cell phone folks will be the source for HD streaming, which folks with iPhones will apparently shell out a lot of money for.How's that going to work? AT&T, the cell provider for iPhone, doesn't even have 3G here.

1.) Folks who cannot afford pay services.
(...)
Are those who cannot afford pay services the people advertisers want to target?
Not subscribing to a paid provider does not equate to not being able to afford it.

There are plenty of people like myself who can afford it just fine, thank you very much, but have no interest in paying for cable or satellite.

Good thinking. Channel 33 was on the same tower as KOLR with a good antenna and 8" transmission line. They had to take it down to avoid paying rent to American Tower. If only we had known then what we know now, we probably could have bought it, in place, for next to nothing. It probably cost them more to take it down that it was worth as salvage.

That really stinks Channel 33 would have been great for KOLR!!!!!

According to The Digital TV Transition Maps Website/ http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ KSPR on Analog Channel 33 had a HAAT of 596 Meters!!!!

So I wish KOLR 33, 1000 kW ERP, and 596 Meters or current digital channel 10's HAAT switched to channel 33 which would require new antenna and transmission line, 1000 kW ERP, and HAAT 631 Meters!!!!

KSPR, KYTV and KOZK Digital are on the same tower! Correct?

KOLR and KSFX Digital are on the same tower! Correct?

Correct Me if I'm Wrong!!!!!

Good thinking. Channel 33 was on the same tower as KOLR with a good antenna and 8" transmission line. They had to take it down to avoid paying rent to American Tower. If only we had known then what we know now, we probably could have bought it, in place, for next to nothing. It probably cost them more to take it down that it was worth as salvage.

Somebody needs to call American Tower and see what other towers have equipment that KOLR can use.

KSPR, KYTV and KOZK Digital are on the same tower! Correct?

KOLR and KSFX Digital are on the same tower! Correct?

Correct Me if I'm Wrong!!!!!
KSPR and KYTV are on one tower and KOZK is on the other, but they are on the same piece of property and very close together. They are very close to Fordland. KYTV built a new tower and donated the old one to KOZK.

KOLR and KSFX are the northern-most tower. At one time this tower had KOLR, KSPR and KOZK. KSFX moved there when their previous tower fell down.

Supposedly Gordon has already bought that equipment for #2. At least that's what he told the SBJ that they have acquired some of the HD stuff.

http://sbj.net/Main.asp?SectionID=18&SubSectionID=23&ArticleID=85763 (dated 11/9/09)




This article also said KY3 would be doing HD local news within 60 days. That would be early January. Anybody know if that's going to happen? I didn't see any report on this at ky3.com

I'm sorry, I thought this was the Rick Springfield / Janis Joplin Thread! :D

So who are we trying to reach?

The FCC is working on a new "Broadband Plan". If stations are required by congressional mandate to consolidate a single SD stream onto a community transmitter for their broadcast presence, the cell phone folks will be the source for HD streaming, which folks with iPhones will apparently shell out a lot of money for.


I can certainly afford cable and/or satellite. I paid for one or the other for many years. I was sold on DTV when "they" told me over the air digital would be wonderful, with HD video and audio, and that is why "they" wanted to sell the RF spectrum and transition to digital TV. DTV was going to be wonderful for everyone and be a real alternative to pay services. Unfortunately that isn't the case. I figured being in the Springfield DMA about 55 miles away, with a modest antenna and amplifier I would be good to go. Of course all of my UHF stations are flawless, but VHF is a disaster.

I don't watch enough TV to make a pay service valuable to me. I'll watch my CBS programming by other means, and it certainly won't be over my cell phone so I can get dinged by the cell providers for data overages with their ridiculously low caps.

You are certainly correct though. Few TV stations, especially in tiny markets like Springfield, would consider spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to make DTV better for a few hundred people on the fringe or for the poor or frugal. They will take the loss and save big money. But I have yet to see real viewer drop off numbers because of VHF DTV.

I am looking for examples of stations who went HD with their local presence, and made a significant gain on the other stations (who do not have HD in their newscast). Any insiders have KSPR information?

That will dictate the speed with which other stations create local HD.

I'm sitting here ~71.5 crow miles from the kolr/KSFX tower, watching KSFX with a converter box and this highly rated unamp'd VHF/UHF antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103077), indoors. KSFX signal strength shows very strong, nearly maximum. kolr, on the other hand, has never shown more than an occasional 1 bar blip on the signal meter. And it has never locked on this setup. I used to watch analog 10 just fine with this same indoor antenna.

I and my neighbors can usually get kolr on outdoor rigs, but god forbid it should lightning within 100 miles of here, or someone should turn a light off or on, or run the dishwasher or a multitude of other appliances in the house, or start the car. It will KILL the audio on kolr for long enough to miss important dialog.

If you're not going to address the problem of kolr being on a noise-filled, obsolete TV band, at least put kolr-SD on a sub channel of KSFX, your strong, reliable UHF station. Even if it's just SD, at least it would be watchable for viewers who have no other alternative for CBS programming. And FOX has already reserved the bandwidth for a "-2" sub channel with their splicer system.

I get all channels perfectly EXCEPT KOLR. I used to get KOLR perfectly until it switched to VHF last April. All my antennas are old VHF/UHF so they should pick up KOLR, but they don't. I have one amplified Terk that does pick up KOLR, but it breaks up frequently and is very touchy.

I really wish they would switch back to UHF. The UHF stations I can even pick up on cheap, tiny freebie antennas that were thrown in with the free-after-coupon digital converters I bought online.

If you're not going to address the problem of kolr being on a noise-filled, obsolete TV band, at least put kolr-SD on a sub channel of KSFX, your strong, reliable UHF station. Even if it's just SD, at least it would be watchable for viewers who have no other alternative for CBS programming. And FOX has already reserved the bandwidth for a "-2" sub channel with their splicer system.

Excellent idea, and should be implemented immediately at no cost to them. However, that would be admitting defeat and actually acknowledging a problem. I'm sure they have some other bright idea for the bandwidth on KSFX, or they will claim they don't want to steal bandwidth from their Fox feed.

Does anybody north of Springfield get KOLR without any problems? I live 80 miles North of Springfield near Warsaw Mo and get KOLR as well as any of the Springfield Stations. I have an old Radio Shack VHF-UHF outdoor antenna thats seen better days, but all of the Springfield stations come in good.

Does anybody north of Springfield get KOLR without any problems? I live 80 miles North of Springfield near Warsaw Mo and get KOLR as well as any of the Springfield Stations. I have an old Radio Shack VHF-UHF outdoor antenna thats seen better days, but all of the Springfield stations come in good.

I was wondering how well people north or Northwest or Northeast of the Springfield MO Market Coverage Area was receiving them?

I live in Lebanon, and get KOLR no problem with an indoor antenna. That's more Northeast than North, so that doesn't exactly answer the question asked.

The Ozarks CW on Dish Network started having a weird noise on it yesterday and today, During Deal or No Deal! It kinda sounds like a poping sound! Hopefully I'm describing the weird sound right?

I don't know for sure when this weird noise started! Or which shows this occurs on?

But on Charter Cable I don't hear this noise!

Must be a Dish Problem!

... they will claim they don't want to steal bandwidth from their Fox feed.That claim would be bogus. The FOX feed is already bandwidth-reduced, because the FOX splicer automatically allocates a set amount of the channel's bandwidth for the local affiliate to do a sub channel (or whatever).


Another VHF bites the dust:
WGHP ch 8 FOX, High Point, NC gets FCC permission to permanently vacate the VHF band, moving from 8 to 35.

FCC report & order, 12/15/09:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-2594A1.pdf

That claim would be bogus. The FOX feed is already bandwidth-reduced, because the FOX splicer automatically allocates a set amount of the channel's bandwidth for the local affiliate to do a sub channel (or whatever).


Another VHF bites the dust:
WGHP ch 8 FOX, High Point, NC gets FCC permission to permanently vacate the VHF band, moving from 8 to 35.

FCC report & order, 12/15/09:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-2594A1.pdf


Smart Move leaving Channel 8!!!

I usually watch abc over the air because on Dish and Charter I can't put it in widescreen mode!

Over The Air TV Sounds and looks better than satelite and cable as long as OTA especially VHF and extremely low power UHF's, don't pixilate!!!!

Do anyway if VHF and move to a 1000 kW UHF if the FCC will allow you too! Or get as close to 1000 kW as you can!

I hope I get My CM 7777 PreAMP tomorrow! I want to see a FedEX truck pull up tomorrow!

I got my CM 7777 PreAMP today!!!!

Its a much better AMP that the Radio Shack one I had!!!

There has been some tropo (http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html) in your area lately, but it's been weak. Hopefully, your improvement is due to the CM7777.

Time will quickly tell.

For those of you that think an extra TV channel is available to broadcasters just for the asking, give this a careful read.

Think about what "reallocation of spectrum held by television broadcasters" really means. That's a separate issue from allowing broadband in the "white spaces" or un-used TV channels.

"Reallocation" could mean that Springfield has TV on Channel 44 and 28 and nothing else. Thus KYTV, KSPR and CW are on one channel and KOLR, KSFX and KOZK are on the other.

How do you do HDTV that way? You don't!

If you want HDTV, you will have to subscribe to satellite or cable. Some FCC commissioners have said that since 80 % of viewers have access to cable or satellite, the OTA viewer doesn't need "cadillac" services like HDTV.

Watch for the FCC plan in February, and stay in touch with your Senators and Representatives. Congress utimately decides what happens.

Will they listen to you, the voter, or Verizon, AT&T and Sprint?

----
FCC offers early peak at national broadband plan
By JOELLE TESSLER (AP) – 1 day ago

WASHINGTON — Expanding the fund that subsidizes telephone service for poor and rural communities and finding more spectrum for wireless broadband services will be key pieces of a federal plan to bring high-speed Internet connections to all Americans.

Those were among the preliminary recommendations that the Federal Communications Commission outlined Wednesday in a report on its national broadband plan. The plan, which was mandated by the stimulus bill, is due in February.

One proposal would use money from the Universal Service Fund to build broadband networks in underserved communities and pay for high-speed Internet connections for those who cannot afford them. The Universal Service Fund, which is supported by a surcharge on phone bills, was established to subsidize phone service.

Another proposal would explore ways to make more wireless spectrum available for mobile broadband services, including the potential reallocation of some spectrum held by television broadcasters and federal agencies.

The FCC is also seeking ways to promote greater use of unlicensed frequencies, such as "white spaces" between TV stations, and development of new technologies that can make more efficient use of spectrum.

Still another proposal would seek ways to create a new market for television set-top boxes that would be able to work with any video TV service and would integrate online content and applications. The FCC wants to ensure that consumers would be able to buy these new boxes at electronics stores, rather than rent them from a cable operator or other video provider.

Blair Levin, the FCC official in charge of developing the broadband plan, said the plan would focus on encouraging competition and leveraging private-sector investments.

Although the agency will not deliver a final set of recommendations to Congress until February, at least one public interest group, Public Knowledge, is already complaining that the plan does not do enough to bring new competition to the broadband market, which is dominated by the nation's big phone and cable companies.
-----

Eventually all OTA broadcasting will be gone, and unfortunately sooner than later. Everyone will be forced to subscribe to something, either satellite, cable, or some broadband TV delivery. The government will get trillions of dollars in auctioning off the space, and the big 4 (or whatever is left) cellular companies rake in big bucks in subscriptions. TV stations will be all for it, because shutting down their transmitters will save millions in operating costs. A couple fiber uplinks to the subscription services and they are good to go. The "poor" people will get everything for free, while the average American Joe who chooses not to waste money on something he doesn't need will get the shaft and have to subsidize others just to watch tv. Thanks FCC and Uncle Sam! People think it can't happen, but that is what the world is coming to.

Don't forget about My Network TV and any other local Station.
KOZK is PBS and not owned by another Springfield,MO and isn't available even on Charter Osage Beach.
If your talking about Digital Sub Channel it's up to the local station to add it.

I hope they don't get rid of OTA!!! OTA has far better picture and sound than Dish, Directv, and Cable!

I believe if they get rid of Over The Air TV (OTA) it will cause Civil War 2!!!

I was surprized the switch to analog to digital didn't cause a Civil War 2!!!! When some people lost some of their channels!

The CM 7777 Pre AMP is the best! I highly recommend it!!!

I don't think anyone is proposing elimination of OTA. They just want to use the spectrum for other things. One or two "RF Channels" could carry quite a few SD DTV signals.

I hope they don't get rid of OTA!!! OTA has far better picture and sound than Dish, Directv, and Cable!

I believe if they get rid of Over The Air TV (OTA) it will cause Civil War 2!!!

I was surprized the switch to analog to digital didn't cause a Civil War 2!!!! When some people lost some of their channels!

I picked up a TBN channel from Memphis TN last night and they have like 5 SD Channels on RF Channel 41!

Hey Rhoops do you know how many SD Channels you could put on one real channel frequency?

I hope they don't degrade OTA. I just wall-mounted my LCD tonight, and put some cheap rabbit ears on top of it for the time being. It's very retro-modern looking, a wall-mounted LCD with rabbit ears. In its new spot, my TV now picks up every channel, including KOLR. Absolutely stunning picture. I'd hate to see that ever downgraded to SD. I wish they'd just kill off SD and 4:3 altogether, but that's just me.

I don't think anyone is proposing elimination of OTA. They just want to use the spectrum for other things. One or two "RF Channels" could carry quite a few SD DTV signals.

Not yet anyway, but it will happen eventually. Using the spectrum for other things means selling it off to the highest bidder, so they can turn around and make billions off of it by forcing people to subscribe to something, all under the guise of reaching broadband to rural and under-served areas. Where do you think AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etc will start building out 700 Mhz? Certainly not middle-of-nowhere Montana for example. They will build out the high dollar urban big market areas. Our free OTA will get sold out so the big cities can get faster connections on their mobile devices, with the rural areas bringing up the rear decades later.

I don't think anyone is proposing elimination of OTA. They just want to use the spectrum for other things. One or two "RF Channels" could carry quite a few SD DTV signals.

I do not want any SD left. I've spent the money for HD equipment, and if its not in HD, its not for me.

SD is going away a LOT faster than it was originally planned as the market is forcing it. With proper encoding, multiple HD is definately an option.

SD is going away a LOT faster than it was originally planned as the market is forcing it. With proper encoding, multiple HD is definately an option.

How do you figure?

One station in the market doing local HD.

Not one doing more than 1 HD simultaneously.

I haven't heard one way or the other if HD is the goldmine that KSPR had hoped for, being we are 11 years into ATSC.

How do you figure?

One station in the market doing local HD.

Not one doing more than 1 HD simultaneously.

I haven't heard one way or the other if HD is the goldmine that KSPR had hoped for, being we are 11 years into ATSC.

Well...programming is becoming more and more available in HD. Let's see...just about every major daily syndicated show is available in HD now. Viewers are demanding it. (I've made that investment in equipment and even my TV's manufacturer doesn't want me watching SD because those black bars burn into the screen)

I refuse to watch SD programming. If its not in HD, its NOT for me. It just
doesn't look right.

We may be 11 years into ATSC but the cheapness of various operators like KY (who only recently upgraded their encoding equipment) and Nexstar (which is on a worthless VHF frequency to save a few bucks on the power bill) has crippled ATSC. Now that the conversion is done and its the standard, the marketplace is catching up.

KSPR is doing local HD out of desperation and necessity more than anything. When KSPR moved, it was basically cheaper and easier to put HD gear in than have to buy SD stuff and upgrade down the road.

As to why KSPR isn't doing well, its not *supposed* to do well no matter what. The plan is to have it as #2 in the market. Its never to be #1. But to do that you have to have anchors who don't fumble through the news and a decent product behind you. KSPR has neither and never will.

Well...programming is becoming more and more available in HD. Let's see...just about every major daily syndicated show is available in HD now. Viewers are demanding it. (I've made that investment in equipment and even my TV's manufacturer doesn't want me watching SD because those black bars burn into the screen)

I refuse to watch SD programming. If its not in HD, its NOT for me. It just
doesn't look right.

We may be 11 years into ATSC but the cheapness of various operators like KY (who only recently upgraded their encoding equipment) and Nexstar (which is on a worthless VHF frequency to save a few bucks on the power bill) has crippled ATSC. Now that the conversion is done and its the standard, the marketplace is catching up.

KSPR is doing local HD out of desperation and necessity more than anything. When KSPR moved, it was basically cheaper and easier to put HD gear in than have to buy SD stuff and upgrade down the road.

As to why KSPR isn't doing well, its not *supposed* to do well no matter what. The plan is to have it as #2 in the market. Its never to be #1. But to do that you have to have anchors who don't fumble through the news and a decent product behind you. KSPR has neither and never will.

When the government forces OTA onto 1 or 2 stations in SD in most markets and does away with OTA HD, you'll subscribe to something in order to get HD programming. At least that is what they think. OTA is for poor people who don't need a Cadillac, they need a 1997 Honda in case of an emergency. It's a win for the government, a win for broadband and subscription TV services, a win for corporate big wigs and lobbyists, a win for the cheap ass TV stations, and a shaft for the average jerk wanting HD for free.

Hey Arxaw! The CM 7777 has helped some! Especially during Tropo!

More VHF nightmares:
(from trip's site (http://rabbitears.info))

WBIQ 10 PBS Birmingham, AL (APT)
12/17/09: WBIQ has petitioned to relocate to channel UHF ch 39.

KTUL 10 ABC Tulsa, OK
07/22/09: KTUL has requested an immediate increase in power.
12/17/09: KTUL has requested a further immediate increase in power.

More VHF nightmares:
(from trip's site (http://rabbitears.info))

WBIQ 10 PBS Birmingham, AL (APT)
12/17/09: WBIQ has petitioned to relocate to channel UHF ch 39.

KTUL 10 ABC Tulsa, OK
07/22/09: KTUL has requested an immediate increase in power.
12/17/09: KTUL has requested a further immediate increase in power.

All VHF's heed this message! Relocate to UHF channels! 1000 kW!

This will solve your problems!!!

(per rabbitears.info (http://www.rabbitears.info))
WUSA VHF 9 CBS Washington, DC (Gannett)
12/21/09: WUSA has requested an immediate increase in power.
* Licensed: 770' 12.6 kW ND
* Requested: 770' 52.0 kW ND (experimental)
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Attachment/getattachment.jsp?appn=101349845&qnum=5200&copynum=1&exhcnum=3

kolr could apply to try a similar experimental power increase. If they wanted to.

(per rabbitears.info (http://www.rabbitears.info))
WUSA VHF 9 CBS Washington, DC (Gannett)
12/21/09: WUSA has requested an immediate increase in power.
* Licensed: 770' 12.6 kW ND
* Requested: 770' 52.0 kW ND (experimental)
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Attachment/getattachment.jsp?appn=101349845&qnum=5200&copynum=1&exhcnum=3

kolr could apply to try a similar experimental power increase. If they wanted to.

That is pretty huge. I guess that's the difference between a major market TV station that cares (at least seems to), and a small town station looking to save a few bucks.

I wonder how the interference tests will go. It looks like it could cause some pretty major interference in some spots. How nice would it be to have kolr at 60kw, maybe blasting through some of the garbage on VHF?! Nice.

My CBS VHF 10 and VHF 12 from Jeff City are both hit and miss. I tried watching a recorded CSI a few days ago, and 40 minutes it was OK and the last 20 were unwatchable. No idea what happened in that episode!

What I find interesting is that there's no fixed rule about VHF. Two VHF stations at the same power level can have very different results.

You guys have a lot of problems with KOLR-10 at 26 kW at any distance. I have amazing signal with WSET-13 at 28.7 kW at a distance of 53 miles, even on an indoor antenna.

Things to think about.

- Trip

What I find interesting is that there's no fixed rule about VHF. Two VHF stations at the same power level can have very different results.

You guys have a lot of problems with KOLR-10 at 26 kW at any distance. I have amazing signal with WSET-13 at 28.7 kW at a distance of 53 miles, even on an indoor antenna.


You mentioned that you have an AntennaCraft Y5-2-6 ``for VHF (high and low) and that gets put through a Radio Shack amp'' outside in Charlotte County.

How well does that antenna, designed for low band-V, get WSET? Were the Sencor readings done using the Y5-2-6 and your Winegard PR-8800?

It gives me about 29-31 dB MER, depending on time of day. Perfectly acceptable, though WSET's actual MER is >36 dB. And yes, the Sencore readings were done with the outdoor antenna system I have. I've also done readings with the VHF bowtie but haven't taken screengrabs while doing so.

- Trip

What I find interesting is that there's no fixed rule about VHF. Two VHF stations at the same power level can have very different results.Trip,
Some stations have switched from horizontal to circular/elliptical polarization. Other factors being equal, do you know if this makes a difference (not that nextar would spend the money to do it)?

No, elliptical/circular polarization does not seem to be the magic bullet. My example would have to be WCPO as they put up a new circularly polarized top-mount on 10 and then still petitioned to relocate to channel 22 anyway.

- Trip

Thanks. That's what I figured, when WCPO decided to abandon ship on the VHF Titanic.

I'm a deep fringe viewer and can use an antenna with the highest gain possible!

I have been recommended these 3!!! I need you guys help me to decide which one?

Terrestrial Digital 91XG UHF TV Antenna (91XG)
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=TD-91XG

Channel Master CM 3671 Deepest Fringe Crossfire Series TV Antenna
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=ANC3671&d=Channel-Master-CM-3671-Deepest-Fringe-Crossfire-Series-Antenna-(CM3671)&c=TV Antennas&sku=020572036719

Winegard HD 8200U High Definition Platinum VHF/UHF/FM TV Antenna
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD8200U&d=Winegard-HD-8200U-High-Definition-Platinum-VHFUHFFM-TV-Antenna-(HD8200U)

My TV Fool which looks sad!!!
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d741c3008413d5b

I know my TV Fool looks hopeless!!!!

Over The Air TV is kind of my hobby! I want a higher gain antenna than I got now! So it might boost my reception! And when tropo comes I'll have good reception!

I'm currently using the Radio Shack 160 inch VHF/UHF Antenna! 62 FT RG 6 Quadsheild cable from antenna to TV, antenna is on a pole beside the house 24 FT above the ground and 6 FT above the roof and CM 7777 PreAMP!

Here's the average gain and average front to back ratios for the Radio Shack Antenna I have!

High VHF 7.3 dB
UHF 8.0 dB

High VHF 14.5 dB
UHF 13.5 dB

You're in the middle of nowhere, so you need something with absolutely the highest gain. The first one has the highest UHF gain. If you think VHF is worth the trouble, add a secondary high VHF antenna (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=YA1713). Your CM7777 can be configured for separate VHF & UHF antennas with the "combined/separate" input switch, located inside the amp unit.

The last two have a ton of extra metal, weight & wind loading for low VHF channels that aren't used in Springfield (or Jonesboro) any more. I would forget those.

If you want a combo antenna, consider this one:
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD7698P
It is the same as the last one (8200U) you listed, without all that extra lowband VHF metal taking up space & weight.

You're in the middle of nowhere, so you need something with absolutely the highest gain. The first one has the highest UHF gain. If you think VHF is worth the trouble, add a secondary high VHF antenna (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=YA1713). Your CM7777 can be configured for separate VHF & UHF antennas with the "combined/separate" input switch, located inside the amp unit.

The last two have a ton of extra metal, weight & wind loading for low VHF channels that aren't used in Springfield (or Jonesboro) any more. I would forget those.

If you want a combo antenna, consider this one:
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD7698P
It is the same as the last one (8200U) you listed, without all that extra lowband VHF metal taking up space & weight.

Thanks Arxaw!!!

Sounds like the Terrestrial Digital 91XG UHF TV Antenna is my best option!
And maybe later the Winegard YA 1713 Prostar 1000 10 El. Hi-Band VHF TV Antenna!

Both antenna's have better gain than the one I got!

Thanks Arxaw!!!

Sounds like the Terrestrial Digital 91XG UHF TV Antenna is my best option!
And maybe later the Winegard YA 1713 Prostar 1000 10 El. Hi-Band VHF TV Antenna!

Both antenna's have better gain than the one I got!
The Winegard 10 El High Band VHF is a very fine antenna. Hook up a decent pre-amp and use high quality coax, and you've got the best you can get. Only adding more height can help. I had a friend in Rolla, Ed Hoffmeister (ham callsign WØLLU), who had a 300 foot tower in his backyard. He got some amazing reception.

I just bought a new Channel Master 7777 PreAMP this month!!!!

This one is the best I used so far!!! Thanks again Arxaw!!!

I am going to get a Terrestrial Digital 91XG UHF TV Antenna and a Winegard YA 1713 Prostar 1000 10 El. Hi-Band VHF TV Antenna to go with my CM 7777! I believe these are my best options! Thanks Arxaw!!!

Thank you all for all your suggestions!!! They really help!!!

I am going to get a Terrestrial Digital 91XG UHF TV Antenna and a Winegard YA 1713 Prostar 1000 10 El. Hi-Band VHF TV Antenna to go with my CM 7777! I believe these are my best options!


Unless I'm very mistaken, I think you'll be pleased with the results of that combination along with the CM-7777 preamp. From what I've been able to glean here and elsewhere, the 91XG and YA-1713 when used in tandem are a top-of-the-line choice at consumer prices.

Though not on the fringe (only 41 miles away from the Dallas-Ft. Worth antenna farm), that pair works well for me. Of course, I don't envy your TV Fool chart. :-)

When I rotate them to the north, I do get KXII/12 from Madill, OK (62 miles) at full scale on a signal quality meter from the YA-1713. And at over 85 miles away, I get KTEN/10 (RF-26) at a steady 84% via the 91XG.

And...that's with them in an attic of a one story home.

Once you get everything set up, let us know how it works out. You may even reconsider your thoughts about VHF if the YA-1713 lives up to its reputation, admittedly a big ``if'' considering your location.

...You may even reconsider your thoughts about VHF if the YA-1713 lives up to its reputation..I agree it's a great antenna, but it didn't change my mind about underpowered VHFs. I took my 1713 down and sold it, because it didn't help with impulse dropouts and only added to my wind loading problems.

I agree it's a great antenna, but it didn't change my mind about underpowered VHFs. I took my 1713 down and sold it, because it didn't help with impulse dropouts and only added to my wind loading problems.

Point well taken. In my area, I'm lucky because the Vs are relatively close by (all within ~60 miles) and have reasonably good power levels that overcome impulse noise.

The only VHF nightmare that I experience is from KFWD/52 (on RF-9). For reasons that still elude me, another facility (KCEN/9) on that channel was allocated just 92 miles away tower-to-tower. During periods of high tropo activity, the co-channel QRM is such that local KFWD simply vanishes. KFWD has a CP to increase from 13 kW to 55 kW but that may not be sufficient to fight mother nature.

KXII/12 runs 36 kW at 1789' HAAT and, at 61.5 miles, has been surprisingly resilient when bursts of impulse noise occur. Some severe thunderstorms are forecast tonight for north Texas and I'll see if I have to eat these words regarding KXII's performance.

KEYC 12 CBS Mankato, MN
07/09/09: KEYC has requested an immediate increase in power.
12/23/09: KEYC has requested a fill-in translator.
* Licensed: 1040' 15.2 kW ND
* Requested: 1040' 35.0 kW ND
* Permitted: 1040' 52.7 kW ND
* Channel 38: ----' 1.90 kW ND

WFAA 8 ABC Dallas, TX
12/24/09: WFAA has requested an increase in power.
* Licensed: 1679' 45.0 kW ND
* Requested: 1673' 55.0 kW DA
...I looked at some modified measurements up to 80 kw ERP, and it still didn't equal to what our UHF allocation was doing with Longley-Rice. The reason 80 kw was looked at was that is the most digital power I can put out with equipment on hand (the equivalent of a 44kw analog transmitter with a 12 gain traveling wave antenna). Looking at the data, we made the assumption that we would need to produce around 120 kw ERP to BEGIN to penetrate buildings. You are now talking the equivalent of a 60 kw analog transmitter running full bore. No one thought the FCC would give us that (being on the east coast) and the interference level WOULD be pretty high at that point to at least 2 other co-channel stations that we looked at. It looks like 40kw is about the most the FCC is willing to go around here based on what other stations have done in the region.

It would appear the FCC really blew the VHF measurements, but they have now moved on to broadband and trying to correct the error is not very high on their list of priorities so if a station can prove they will not cause undo interference, they will approve it just to keep on track with their own agenda.

@re_nelson,
The problem with a higher gain VHF antenna is it also picks up more noise in the same band of the station you're trying to pick up. So, if the station is weak, the higher gain antenna may not do any good.

@re_nelson,
The problem with a higher gain VHF antenna is it also picks up more noise in the same band of the station you're trying to pick up. So, if the station is weak, the higher gain antenna may not do any good.
But it would also reject noise from the sides and off the back of the antenna.

Now if only some clever inventor would do the same thing Bose and David Clark did with noise canceling headsets, we would have a very interesting product. The noise blanker is really pretty old technology. You simply have a receiver tuned to an adjacent frequency and cancel the noise with an equal and opposite waveform. Modern DSP chips would make it a matter of just writing the code.
---
(something I googled up)
A noise blanker circuit protects a signal processing circuit from unwanted noise spikes by interrupting the signal path when it exceeds a preestablished threshold or reference level. The detector itself is a two branch detector that has in one branch a variable gain amplifier that is controlled by an automatic gain control signal and a comparator. The other branch of the circuit has a delay network which delays the signal by the propagation delay of the variable gain amplifier in the comparator and applies it to a switch, which when activated by the output signal from the comparator, will interrupt the second branch to ground and thus protect the remainder of the circuit.

---
Of course you couldn't just ground out the signal during impulses, but would have to closely match the phase and amplitude of the signal.
Perhaps dual diversity antennas with MIMO technlogy similar to 802.11n Wi-Fi could be used.

KSFX / KOLR and KSPR from the Springfield MO Market and KAIT from the Jonesboro AR Market started airing a commercial!!! Save Free Antenna TV!!!! Antenna TV is endangered of going away!!! This commerial is sponsored by the NAB and the local tv station airing it!!!!

We must find a way to Save Free Antenna TV!!!

Or the Death of OTA could become a Reality.

And nobody wants Free TV to GO AWAY!!!!

KSFX started airing a commercial tonight!!! Save Free Antenna TV!!!! Antenna TV is endangered of going away!!!

The Grinch / aka the Government is at it again!!!!

We must find a way to stop them!!!

Or the Death of OTA could become a Reality.

And nobody wants Free TV to GO AWAY!!!!
Although the FCC makes the rules, Congress makes the laws.
Contact Roy Blunt, http://blunt.house.gov/
Kit Bond, http://bond.senate.gov/ or
Claire McCaskill http://mccaskill.senate.gov/
and tell them how you feel.

KSFX / KOLR from the Springfield MO Market and KAIT from the Jonesboro AR Market started airing a commercial!!! Save Free Antenna TV!!!! Antenna TV is endangered of going away!!! This commerial is sponsored by the NAB and the local tv station airing it!!!!

The Grinch / aka the Government and special interest is at it again!!!!

We must find a way to stop them!!!

Or the Death of OTA could become a Reality.

And nobody wants Free TV to GO AWAY!!!!

Nexstar does. If they didn't they wouldn't have picked a dumpwater useless VHF to broadcast KOLR on.

They'd rather collect cash from Directv, DISH and the cable cos than provide a product free over the air.

Nexstar does. If they didn't they wouldn't have picked a dumpwater useless VHF to broadcast KOLR on.

They'd rather collect cash from Directv, DISH and the cable cos than provide a product free over the air.
Nexstar did not pick that channel. G Pearson Ward picked that channel back in 1953. The 2000 foot tower and current antenna were installed in 1974, and the current ( recently modified for DTV ) transmitter was bought in the 1990's. All that happened while the station was owned by Independent Broadcasting.

KOLR (and KTTS-TV ) existed before Nexstar and they will exist after Nexstar.

A UHF slot could have been applied for in one of the channel election rounds. It could still be requested - there are vacant U's in this DMA.

KSFX 27 is at full signal strength using a converter box and a loop antenna, 71 miles from Fordland.
kolr 10 with a dipole extended exactly to the proper ch 10 length says "NO SIGNAL"

VHF, at the ERP kolr is allotted, does not work as predicted.

UHF is totally better than VHF ever since stations moved to digital!!!

VHF was totally better in 1953!!! But 56 years later VHF is a different story!!!!!

When the FCC assigned power for VHF they were smoking pot!!!!

It might help to move High VHF closer to 160 kW digital!

The reason they auctioned off 52-69 is because they couldn't of made billions of dollars off of VHF 2-13!!!

Most other countries that switched to digital got rid of VHF 2-13!!!!

Lets hope the government don't get rid of more UHF!!! Because they bring in the big bucks in the auctions!!!

Don't put wireless Internet on are UHF TV Channels!!!

Save Free TV!!!!!

The 2000 foot tower and current antenna were installed in 1974

I remember hearing older analog antennas had more gain at the audio and video carrier frequencies than at other frequencies, which would lead the the digital signal not being as level across the 6 MHz, which reduces MER and thus makes it harder to receive. Could this be part of the problem with the KOLR signal?

- Trip

Nexstar did not pick that channel. G Pearson Ward picked that channel back in 1953. The 2000 foot tower and current antenna were installed in 1974, and the current ( recently modified for DTV ) transmitter was bought in the 1990's. All that happened while the station was owned by Independent Broadcasting.

KOLR (and KTTS-TV ) existed before Nexstar and they will exist after Nexstar.

Mulemuffins. The Channel 10 fiasco was Nexstar and ONLY Nexstar's doing. They *chose* to remain on Channel 10. It wasn't Independent Broadcasting who elected to be on the WORTHLESS channel 10 for DTV. It was NEXSTAR.

+1

Nexstar did not pick that channel. G Pearson Ward picked that channel back in 1953. The 2000 foot tower and current antenna were installed in 1974, and the current ( recently modified for DTV ) transmitter was bought in the 1990's. All that happened while the station was owned by Independent Broadcasting.

KOLR (and KTTS-TV ) existed before Nexstar and they will exist after Nexstar.

You damn well need to fix your OTA issues, and then PROMOTE your OTA viewership BIG TIME (KMIZ has their own in-house produced spots)... cause in the future, CBS can go directly to Comcast or any other cable outlet to carry the network feed and cut you right out of a JOB. If you think the networks won't throw the affiliates under the bus if it suits their purposes... you'd be living in a dream world.

You damn well need to fix your OTA issues, and then PROMOTE your OTA viewership BIG TIME (KMIZ has their own in-house produced spots)... cause in the future, CBS can go directly to Comcast or any other cable outlet to carry the network feed and cut you right out of a JOB. If you think the networks won't throw the affiliates under the bus if it suits their purposes... you'd be living in a dream world.
The networks are currently asking for a cut of the retransmission consent money, and that will be quite a grand battle.

http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx158/outdoortvreception/TVAntenna-1.jpg

Pole only 6 FT above the roof! Pole goes all the way to the ground 24 FT tall!!!

91XG UHF at the top with 6 FT, RG6 Quadshield Cable to CM7777 PreAMP and YA1713 VHF with 6FT, RG6 Quadshield Cable to CM7777!

62 FT, RG6 Quadsheild Cable From CM7777 PreAMP to CM7777 Power Supply!

3 FT, RG6 Quadsheild Cable From CM7777 Power Supply to DTV Pal Plus Converter!

Here what I'm upgrading my antenna system to!!!!

Note Antennas will not be bigger than the house!!!! Pole only 6 FT above the roof! Pole goes all the way to the ground 24 FT tall!!!


It may just be how the image was created but note that the orientation of the Winegard YA-1713 is such that the 6 smaller reflector elements point toward the transmitters. As pictured, the configuration shows the 91XG UHF and VHF antennas at 180 degrees. :-)

As I recall you have a Channel Master CM-7777 preamp which does support separate mode for UHF and VHF.

When do you expect to put the new antennas to the test?

It may just be how the image was created but note that the orientation of the Winegard YA-1713 is such that the 6 smaller reflector elements point toward the transmitters. As pictured, the configuration shows the 91XG UHF and VHF antennas at 180 degrees. :-)

As I recall you have a Channel Master CM-7777 preamp which does support separate mode for UHF and VHF.

When do you expect to put the new antennas to the test?

Yes I have the CM 7777!!! I'll just have to do is open it up and flip a switch!

I'm trying to decide if I should put the VHF one on top or the UHF one?

Fed ex is suppost to deliever the Winegard on Tuesday!

I'm going to order the 91XG UHF as soon as I can!

I thank you for any tips you would like to share!!!!

http://i47.tinypic.com/2s7e4h4.jpg

The UHF section will likely yield improvement.
The VHF section may be a complete waste of money, except for possibly improving KAIT.

.

You may want to put the UHF antenna on top.
http://i50.tinypic.com/14y8igi.jpg

.

When using separate V/U antennas, remove the 4 screws on the 7777 and open it.
Flip the combined/separate V/U input switch to separate.
Make sure the FM trap switch is on.
http://www.solidsignal.com/images/tech/CM777X_help_01.gif

.

If I were going to all that trouble, I would add two more items:
1. A guyed telescoping mast, to easily raise your antenna even higher off the ground.
2. A rotor, which is essential for precise aiming that high gain UHF antenna. It has a very narrow beamwidth.

The UHF section will likely yield improvement.
The VHF section may be a complete waste of money, except for possibly improving KAIT.

I agree 100%!!!!

The only reason I'm getting the VHF Antenna is for KAIT!

The odds are the VHF antenna will be a waste of money!

I have maybe a 1% chance it will improve KAIT!

If it brings in KOLR at night I will crap my pants! But thats a 0% chance!!!

I know I'm going to be impressed with the UHF Antenna!!!!

I'll let you know what happens after I get them installed!

Thanks Arxaw!!!

I have not been on the forum and the answer to this is probably here somewhere...why can I not receive KOLR 10 HD signal through my OTA antenna connected through by dish receiver? I receive every channel but channel 10? thanks

Because kolr10 is on VHF and underpowered. All the other local stations are in the UHF band, with sufficient power to get to your TV without interference.

So,,,anyway to fix it or is it something they will need to fix? thanks

So,,,anyway to fix it or is it something they will need to fix? thanks

There's nothing we can do on are end!!!!

But its up to the station to fix the problem!!!

Either move to UHF!!! Which there not going to do!

So I guess demand more power on VHF 10!!! But the FCC would not grant 30 kW ERP proabably because of KTUL!!! 30 kW is what KOLR asked for first! But they got 26 kW! When KOLR first moved back to VHF 10 in April 16, 2006 only operated at 20 kW!!! Originally KOLR was channel 52 but the FCC Auctioned off that channel! And KOLR decided to go back to their original analog frequency! Big mistake because VHFis now underpowered like Arxaw said!!!

It was said on here the KOLR transmitter is able to transmit 60 kW!!! If allowed!!!

160 kW might solve the problem! Thats what there analog power was!

The worst VHF I know of locally for me has to be KEMV 13 AETN/PBS at 4.05 kW ERP!

They must be crazy to only broadcast at that of low of power!!!

They plan to up the power to 12.1 kW but thats still too low won't help!

Plus they have crazy aspect ratio's at times!

With all the posts concerning KOLR coverage problems, I should probably mention that a few weeks ago, with no effort on my part, I can occasionally now receive their signal. I have no idea why, possibly the last of the leaves blowing off the trees, cooler weather, insert your theory here. But in regards to impulse noise, etc. wrecking reception, here's an oddity. I've been using my Polaroid 40" LCD as a monitor on one of my computers, just for fun. However, I needed to do some file housecleaning on a big project, and it's just easier to do on the regular Viewsonic 22" LCD monitor. The cursor flitting around on a 40" display three feet in front of you can be a bit overwhelming sometimes. I had KOLR on the big display, and then placed the 22" monitor in front of the 40". Powering up the 22" immediately wrecked KOLR reception. Turned off the 22", and KOLR came back. Like a light switch. I also discovered that this would wreck the Pioneer 50" upstairs tuned to KOLR, and I'm guessing whatever was wrecking the 40" was going back through the RG6 and wreaking havoc upstairs. None of these shenanigans had any effect whatsoever on the other Springfield/Fayetteville UHF's. In all fairness, placing the two monitors on top of each other like that is not an everyday occurrence, but it really opened my eyes to just how vulnerable VHF is in an average home.

None of these shenanigans had any effect whatsoever on the other Springfield/Fayetteville UHF's. In all fairness, placing the two monitors on top of each other like that is not an everyday occurrence, but it really opened my eyes to just how vulnerable VHF is in an average home.Quite vulnerable.

There are tons of things in or near the average home that can easily destroy VHF DTV reception, especially with stations broadcasting at anemic power levels currently allowed by the FCC.

So,,,anyway to fix it or is it something they will need to fix? thanksIf they stay on channel 10, the only thing they can do to fix the reception problems is to increase power. And the FCC won't let them. Although they could apply to experimentally increase power and see if it interferes with any other channel 10s in the region. Stations in other markets are doing this.

The other option is to vacate the VHF band, like everyone else did in Springfield, KC and Saint Louis. There are vacant UHF channels available in this market.

If they stay on channel 10, the only thing they can do to fix the reception problems is to increase power. And the FCC won't let them. Although they could apply to experimentally increase power and see if it interferes with any other channel 10s in the region. Stations in other markets are doing this.

The other option is to vacate the VHF band, like everyone else did in Springfield, KC and Saint Louis. There are vacant UHF channels available in this market.

Unfortunately kolr will vacate transmitting any signal at all OTA before they will vacate VHF for UHF.

I have not been on the forum and the answer to this is probably here somewhere...why can I not receive KOLR 10 HD signal through my OTA antenna connected through by dish receiver? I receive every channel but channel 10? thanks

I will try and be helpful, I'm not as technically versed as some others, but bitterness seems to have gotten in the way of the spirit of the forum.

KOLR is on a VHF channel bothered by electrical interference.

Make sure you have a vhf/uhf antenna, one with a built in amp will not work most likely, it amplifies the interference along with the signal, and as they say you can't make chicken salad out of chicken you know what...

Use a FM trap before any amps, KOLR was handing them out, it filters the FM radio out of the signal to help with vhf.

Many variables, but if you are near Springfield you have a good chance of receiving it, I live 17 miles from the towers and receive it no problem with rabbit ears on a four way splitter in the attic.

Hey I finally got KRBK tonight DT-49. It is displaying a giant logo with backround of a recording of the lake. There is fast music playing also and it is all on a loop.

It is about 65% for me, but everything is coming in great tonight. Even KOMU and KRCG in Columbia are 90%+ on VHF with only a few drop outs!

Attached is a screen shot.

Tropo was pretty decent last night, which IIRC, is sometimes the case, ahead of an advancing COLD front. I was getting a lot of distant channels that normally don't come in.

Even weakling kolr10 was dropout-free. Too bad they can't bump up the power to a decent level, like some other Vs (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=wbph&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9) have done.

I wondered if signals reflected on the snowcover. KMIZ came it at 100% most of the evening for me, which is rare stuff nowadays. I get it 6 nights a week reliably from transition day up until the week before thanksgiving... then it went in the dumper, only sporadic around 3 nights a week. the springfield stations come in spordically for me, too.... but never in winter.

Tropo was pretty decent last night, which IIRC, is sometimes the case, ahead of an advancing COLD front. I was getting a lot of distant channels that normally don't come in.

Even weakling kolr10 was dropout-free. Too bad they can't bump up the power to a decent level, like some other Vs (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=wbph&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9) have done.

I got KOLR last night at 48-54% pixilated mess and green screen!!! No sound!!!! For a a couple of minutes! Then dead as it usually is!!!

On the DTV Pal Plus a signal strength 54% and lower is not watchable!

This was with the CM7777 PreAMP and New Winegard YA-1713 VHF Antenna and I'm using my old Radio Shack VHF/UHF Antenna for UHF until I can order a Terrestrial Digital 91XG UHF Antenna!

And last night also got KSPR good about 54-68%

Would have worked better I bet if I had the Terrestrial Digital 91XG UHF Antenna!

Last night and today I have got KAIT 8 at about 80-88%!!!!

It only pixilated twice this afternoon!!! Lasting about 5 seconds the two times!