Between DirecTV, Mediacom, and Dish Network, which is the best service for HDTV right now?

Between DirecTV, Mediacom, and Dish Network, which is the best service for HDTV right now?

I would think Dish Network as they now have 25 HD channels with more comming soon and maybe local HD before the end of the year.

JonnyG24, it really depends on how much you watch TV, and what type of programming you want. I would really recommend you look at programming guides for the different services. Decide if you want to pay extra for the content that's offered.

I have the old DishHD package. TNTHD (or law and order TV), ESPNHD, Discovery HD Theater, HDNet Movies, and HDNet. In 4 months with the service I've watched maybe 2 episodes of Law and Order in HD (which I can watch on KY3 anyway) and a couple episodes of Corwins Quest on DiscoveryHD. I'm not keeping the service when my 6 months free is over. My biggest complaint is there isn't anything worth watching on any of the channels. Yes it's HD and looks great, I just don't want to waste time watching 3rd tier content.

I REALLY REALLY want more HD content but I want CBS, ABC, and FOX. Most of our viewing is network television.

...I REALLY REALLY want more HD content but I want CBS, ABC, and FOX. Most of our viewing is network television.
I get CBS-HD, ABC-HD, NBC-HD and FOX-HD from DirecTV.

I have Dish Network right now with the HD package. I like ESPNHD and TNTHD, but I thought I read somewhere that Mediacom includes 3, 10 and 27 in HD. Is that true? Also, whats the cheapest way to get local HD from antenna. I live in south central Spfd

I'm pretty sure that only 3 and 33 are in HD on mediacom (that is all I get.) Looking forward to the day when 10 and 27 are on mediacom....

I have Dish Network right now with the HD package. ... whats the cheapest way to get local HD from antenna...
If you have a Dish HD receiver, it has a built in OTA tuner. Just connect an antenna (with enough gain to receive the low power Springfield stations) to your Dish HD receiver's ANT-IN jack. As weak as some of the stations are, you may also need a preamp.

KY3 digital all screwed up today.

I heard they messed up their PSIP data, which knocked them off the air.

Today, I'm getting the following subchannels on ch 44, which is the RF channel KYTV-DT uses for 3-1 thru 3-3. There is no audio or video.
http://tinypic.com/xbb79e.jpg

I assume it's coming from KYTV, but I wonder what they have planned.

Anyone else getting these sub channels on ch 44?

.

I have never saw anything on my guide like that.
Mine looks like this
003-01 KY3
003-02 UPN
003-03 Wx P

I also have on my 921,
044-01 Rf44
044-02 Rf44
044-03 Rf44

I dont have any "44" channels...

KYTV-DT (3-1, 3-2, 3-3) is on channel 44 (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=kytv).

For some reason my 921 won't filter out the 44 channels so I just have a duplicate of KY3 on 044-01 and for some reason my guide info is on 044-01 instead of 003-01 started yesterday. And I also got guide info on 021-01 yesterday finale.

Oh well they dont show up on my guide and I cant find them to add them to my favorites list either.

Reported on KY3 news about UPN and WB joining to be CW network in September.Does anyone know if channel 15 and 31 will both be the CW network, or just channel 15 and 31 will go away?

Reported on KY3 news about UPN and WB joining to be CW network in September.Does anyone know if channel 15 and 31 will both be the CW network, or just channel 15 and 31 will go away?

Here's an article about the merger at KY3.com (http://www.ky3.com/news/2226356.html).

I wish 15 would go away; or at least 3-2. It and WeatherPlus are sucking too much bandwidth away from NBC-HD (3-1). It's bad when a downrezzed HDLite DirecTV channel (WNBC-DT) has better picture quality than an OTA HD station received w/ antenna....

FWIW, KWFT ch 34 here in Eureka Springs AR has already dumped WB and switched to FOX.

I don't know about 15 but I assume they will be the CW affiliate since 31 has signed on with MyNetworkTV.


*** EDIT

As of Thursday May 18, KCZ channel 15 has signed on as the CW affiliate in the Springfield Market

Here's an article about the merger at KY3.com (http://www.ky3.com/news/2226356.html).

I wish 15 would go away; or at least 3-2. It and WeatherPlus are sucking too much bandwidth away from NBC-HD (3-1). It's bad when a downrezzed HDLite DirecTV channel (WNBC-DT) has better picture quality than an OTA HD station received w/ antenna....

FWIW, KWFT ch 34 here in Eureka Springs AR has already dumped WB and switched to FOX.

Arxaw,

Since the tropo was very strong last night, I was able to do a side by side comparison of KYTV and KARK (Little Rock, AR) picture quaility. At times, KYTV was in the high 80's down here on signal strength on peaks. I agree the other two subchannels are sucking "KY3-HD" bone dry, while watching that silly movie last night. KARK having no sub-channels (yet) looked more pristine. KOZK/OPT on ch 23 digital had three going also. What is in the water up there??? at least OPT should kill "Create" on 21-3 during primetime at least.


Haley
downstate in Lower Arkansas

Haley,
I and others have complained about multicasting and lousy picture quality on KYTV-DT and KOZK-DT, but they don't give a damn, and have no plans to drop sub channels. KOZK-DT even downconverts PBS-HD from 1080i to 720p. IMO, it's barely DVD quality and sometimes not even that....

You're right about good tropo weather - last night was great. I picked up
KTEJ-DT 19-1 in Jonesboro
KWTX-DT 10-1 (RF ch53) in Waco, TX
KTBC-DT 7-1 (RF ch 56) in Austin, TX

Later in the week is supposed to be even better for tropo reception.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/tropo.html
:-)

Arxaw,

Since the tropo was very strong last night, I was able to do a side by side comparison of KYTV and KARK (Little Rock, AR) picture quaility. At times, KYTV was in the high 80's down here on signal strength on peaks. I agree the other two subchannels are sucking "KY3-HD" bone dry, while watching that silly movie last night. KARK having no sub-channels (yet) looked more pristine. KOZK/OPT on ch 23 digital had three going also. What is in the water up there??? at least OPT should kill "Create" on 21-3 during primetime at least.


Haley
downstate in Lower Arkansas

KETC-9 here in STL has 9-1 (PBS HD 720p, downconverted from 1080i), 9-2 (PBS Kids 480i), 9-3 (KETC OTA, 480i), and 9-4 (Create, 480i).

KETC-9 here in STL has 9-1 (PBS HD 720p, downconverted from 1080i), 9-2 (PBS Kids 480i), 9-3 (KETC OTA, 480i), and 9-4 (Create, 480i).
Hard to believe they would even attempt this much multicasting. They must have no idea of what HD quality means.

Picked up KSNF-16 (Joplin) analog in STL this morning at 0720 CDT. Normally, WUSI, Olney IL is on that freq.

Hard to believe they would even attempt this much multicasting. They must have no idea of what HD quality means.

Many PBS stations run multiple streams. (Greater than 3).
The content is the allowing factor.

PBS in Arkansas shuts down all extra sub channels when they broadcast PBS HD programs at night.

I've done A/B comparisons of KAFT-DT's 1080i (no sub channels) vs KOZK's downconverted 720p (w/ sub channels). KAFT-DT's picture quality is vastly superior.

Wouldn't 720p be the prefered resolution for HD?
480i(interlaced)=240 line resolution
1080i(interlaced)=540 line resolution
720p(progressive)=720 line resolution

Any new word from KOLR, KDEB or KSPR on HD?

Guess not

THX10 - Please e-mail each of them yourself. The more people bugging them the better.

If you do that you will learn that KLOR and KDEB plan on OTA HD before football season. KSPR is shooting for the first of '07.

Hope that helps.

I have emailed several times in the past year, but always got the same mumbo-jumbo from their engineers.

i was wondering if anyone had any new or "inside" information.

I guess I stated my original question wrong. Sorry

I have about gave on e-mailing them, don't seem to make much difference.

Any new word from KOLR, KDEB or KSPR on HD?

I received these responses from stations:

From KOLR10 "We're installing high-definition equipment as we speak and plan to be broadcasting a full-power high definition signal by sometime in 4th quarter of this year. Thanks for your patience. "

From KSFX FOX "The last projected date I have heard is sometime in October of this year, but I cannot guarantee that it will happen in that month. We are still supposed to be full power digital this year."

-Leon :cool:

Picked up KSNF-16 (Joplin) analog in STL this morning at 0720 CDT. Normally, WUSI, Olney IL is on that freq.

I live only 10 miles from the KSNF-16 tower, and I have not yet been able to receive their signal! Does anyone have any suggestions, as I have experimented a great deal without any success. :(

I live only 10 miles from the KSNF-16 tower, and I have not yet been able to receive their signal! Does anyone have any suggestions, as I have experimented a great deal without any success. :(

No significant terrain between you and KSNF. Usual questions:

Antenna- indoors, outdoors, type?
If outdoors, location and height?
Analog or DTV reception?
Type of set/receiver?

I should have read your post more clearly (analog signal). I can recieve the analog signal without any problems, but the digital signal eludes me.

Anyway, answers to the typical questions:
Outdoor, roof-mounted antennas
- ChannelMaster UHF (4-Bay)
- Radioshack VU190XR (VHF/UHF/FM Combo)
Both antennas are mounted on the roof of my single story house (~25' above ground). The CM is aimed south/south-west to receive the UHF signal from KODE-DT (channel 43) and KSNF-DT (channel 46). The VU190XR is aimed west to receive KOAM-DT (channel 13) and also brings in all analog channels for the forementioned stations.
I own a Samsung TX-R3079WH tv with built-in tuner (all modes up to and including 1080i).

I should note that all my unused coax jacks are terminated, and I have a 4-way ChannelMaster distribution amplifier mounted in my garage (~50 of wire from antenna to this point) to boost the signal. I have a DirecTV mini dish signal also. All the antennas (including the DirecTV dish) share a common coax cable to the distribution amplifier. I have to split the DirecTV and OTA signals prior to amplification. The DirecTV signal is blocked by the amp, thus I combine them again after the amp. I installed a DC block and FM trap on the OTA signal split to prevent loops and to remove FM interference.

I should note that I receive KOAM-DT @ 70% signal strength (~14 miles from tower) and KOZJ-DT (PBS) @ 80% strength (~10 miles from tower). KODE-DT barely is received (depending on weather) @ 10% strength. I believe KODE and KOZJ are on the same tower and broadcast at the same power. Odd that I can receive one, but not the other. I cannot receive KSNF-DT at all.

What next? Move? :confused:

I believe KODE and KOZJ are on the same tower and broadcast at the same power. Odd that I can receive one, but not the other.
Yes and no:

KOZJ-DT and KODE-DT are on the same tower, but KOZJ-DT is full power and KODE-DT is still low power. Last I heard, KOZJ-DT was still the only full power digital station in the Joplin market.

I should have read your post more clearly (analog signal). I can recieve the analog signal without any problems, but the digital signal eludes me.

Anyway, answers to the typical questions:
Outdoor, roof-mounted antennas
- ChannelMaster UHF (4-Bay)
- Radioshack VU190XR (VHF/UHF/FM Combo)
Both antennas are mounted on the roof of my single story house (~25' above ground). The CM is aimed south/south-west to receive the UHF signal from KODE-DT (channel 43) and KSNF-DT (channel 46). The VU190XR is aimed west to receive KOAM-DT (channel 13) and also brings in all analog channels for the forementioned stations.
I own a Samsung TX-R3079WH tv with built-in tuner (all modes up to and including 1080i).

I should note that all my unused coax jacks are terminated, and I have a 4-way ChannelMaster distribution amplifier mounted in my garage (~50 of wire from antenna to this point) to boost the signal. I have a DirecTV mini dish signal also. All the antennas (including the DirecTV dish) share a common coax cable to the distribution amplifier. I have to split the DirecTV and OTA signals prior to amplification. The DirecTV signal is blocked by the amp, thus I combine them again after the amp. I installed a DC block and FM trap on the OTA signal split to prevent loops and to remove FM interference.

I should note that I receive KOAM-DT @ 70% signal strength (~14 miles from tower) and KOZJ-DT (PBS) @ 80% strength (~10 miles from tower). KODE-DT barely is received (depending on weather) @ 10% strength. I believe KODE and KOZJ are on the same tower and broadcast at the same power. Odd that I can receive one, but not the other. I cannot receive KSNF-DT at all.

What next? Move? :confused:

Why, yes. STL isn't too bad... :)


You're covering all the basics well. I would say that your local stations are screwing you over, with the exception of KOZJ. Short of moving over to West 20th Street next to the tower farm (not recommended), you're gonna have to wait until they can afford the electric bill. Sorry, guy.

...you're gonna have to wait until they can afford the electric bill. Sorry, guy.

That's funny, cause I work for the local electric utility. :rolleyes:

I can just hope the "old money" in Joplin begin to purchase (and demand) digital broadcast at an incredible rate. Maybe then the advertising dollars will be there to support the full strength. Otherwise, when has the FCC mandated full power broadcasts?

According to the FCC site, KODE's temporary permit for low power operation (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1103763) expired 6/19/06.

KSNF's expires 7/3/06 (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1104462).

I couldn't find KOAM's STA.

Does this mean both KODE and KSNF will be required to broadcast at full power now that their STAs have expired?

I know KOAM broadcasts at low power, but I receive it @ 75% strength; and it's HD, not SD like the others. Speaking of HD, is there a way to know when the other stations will be required to switch from SD to HD?

Does this mean both KODE and KSNF will be required to broadcast at full power now that their STAs have expired?
Not necessarily; they may have applied for an extension and the new expiration info may not have trickled out to the various online databases yet. I'm not sure how much longer the FCC will be granting extensions.

I know KOAM broadcasts at low power, but I receive it @ 75% strength; and it's HD, not SD like the others. Speaking of HD, is there a way to know when the other stations will be required to switch from SD to HD?
KOAM-DT is VHF (13), so even at low power they likely have much better propagation than the UHF DTs in your area. There is no requirement for DTV stations to broadcast HD, nor is there one in the works.

I apologize for taking the discussion here off-topic, but hopefully this will turn out to be relevant and useful to the video connoisseurs who read and contribute here regularly.

I'm an independent, ISF video calibrator, based in St. Louis, who makes occasional visits to other cities in the Midwest to provide calibration services to consumers. I'm ISF-trained and have been working full time as a calibrator for more than 4 years, with expertise in all types of video displays, including CRT, plasma, DLP, LCD, and LCoS (DILA, SXRD, etc), ranging from direct-view, rear-projection or front-projection systems.

I'm now beginning to plan for a calibration tour to the Kansas City area that will take place for 10 to 14 days during the August 10-31 period. I'm hoping to include Springfield in my travels during that period, which is why I'm posting this note here.

Anyone in the Springfield area who's interested in learning more about video calibration or would like to discuss an appointment during my August dates, you can send me an AVS private message.

In addition to Kansas City and Springfield, I'm also expecting to make stops in Lincoln and Omaha, NE; and Lawrence, KS, during August.

Doug

Ordinarily, solicitations such as the above belong in the AVS Club areas. However, we've made exceptions for ISF calibrators in other local threads, though generally the plug comes from a third party. I'll leave it up to the regular posters in this thread to PM me opinions on whether or not to move you, Doug.

Dr Don (former KFSB & KWTO-FM DJ in the 80s)

PS: I miss Erntefest

Well at least someone made a post here. I began to think everyone has just gave up on local HD.

I see KY3 advertising the CW network this fall. Just hope it has it's own digital channel number.

I do kinda remember Dr Don. I'm still listening to old Woody P Snow.

Like UPN, the CW will be at the KYTV-DT trough, along with NBC WeatherPlus, sucking bandwidth and picture quality from NBC-HD.

When I can, I watch NBC in HD via KALB in Alexandria, LA... on nights that conditions are favorable, and they do an excellent job with HD. I remember when I was in Diamond City a couple weeks ago, how amazing I thought NBC-HD looked on KYTV... one can definitely tell the difference when a station is, or is not multicasting!

Like UPN, the CW will be at the KYTV-DT trough, along with NBC WeatherPlus, sucking bandwidth and picture quality from NBC-HD.

This sucks, I probably won't watch much of the CW network till we get a good picture.

This sucks, I probably won't watch much of the CW network till we get a good picture.

you will never get to watch it then most likely :( I imagine it will look just as bad as UPN does now.

I usually just read and don't post much, but this is what I learned this week from KOLR 10. I had inquired about the possibility of HD before football.

"We had hoped to be HD full power by the start of the NFL season. Due to
equipment order issues & other complications, the date is looking like
sometime mid-November. I can not give an HD waiver because there is no
temporary waiver system which would allow for us to get the viewers back
when we had the HD Signal available. We are working very hard to make HD
available to this market & have already received some shipments needed
to make it happen but it won't be completed as early as we had hoped.
Thanks for the inquiry."

I usually just read and don't post much, but this is what I learned this week from KOLR 10. I had inquired about the possibility of HD before football.

"We had hoped to be HD full power by the start of the NFL season. Due to
equipment order issues & other complications, the date is looking like
sometime mid-November. I can not give an HD waiver because there is no
temporary waiver system which would allow for us to get the viewers back
when we had the HD Signal available. We are working very hard to make HD
available to this market & have already received some shipments needed
to make it happen but it won't be completed as early as we had hoped.
Thanks for the inquiry."


Its unfortunate that their greed has them hiding behind laws to keep viewers. If they practiced free market ethics, they would know to offer a superior product that meets and exceeds customer expectations, as well as being on par w/ or better than the competition (KY3), is a much better solution to keeping viewership. If they granted hd waivers, and allowed our needs to be met in the mean time if they improved their antiquated electronics to something that mimics Y2k or newer technology, possibly offering better quality broadcast, than the rest, we the viewers would come back in droves. As a viewer I just want the best possible broadcast quality for given broadcast material, even if I have to pay for it. And as a broadcaster they want to keep every viewer the law allows, and unfortunately the law allows them to keep viewers, and only make minimal efforts to improve their quality. I mean come on they are 2 years behind KY3. Ill bet though that their sales staff is selling advertising on the fact that they will be broadcasting NFL in HD. Good for them and pi$$ on us!
I don't know if it is possible to "move" to kansas city viewing area, but I know that kc natives having been watching the chiefs for the better part of 2 years in HD. whats a good address to move to w/ dish network?

[I]"... I can not give an HD waiver because there is no
temporary waiver system which would allow for us to get the viewers back
when we had the HD Signal available."[I]
This is pure BS. Existing waivers are revoked as soon as local HD channels begin being provided to a DirecTV subscriber.

If you have DirecTV you can get NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX HD free if you subscribe to springfield standard def locals on D* and "move" your service address to:
39 N MAIN ST
EUREKA SPRINGS AR 72632-3602

This address is "NON-DELIVERABLE" for mail, but shows up in the DirecTV address database (http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com) as qualified for NY HD feeds.
What is Non-Deliverable? Any address that shows up in the USPS database, but is not deliverable because the address does not accept mail, or the building is non-existant or has been torn down.

I will probably watch some on 27, 10 and 33 when they provide us with HD. Since 27 and 33 will be doing all the nascar races next year, it will be my only source. It will still take me a long time to forgive them for dragging their feet.

I believe KY3 has been doing HD since 2001.
i

You think they are just buying time in order to save money as long as possible?

That is a shame. Is KY3 that much better off financially than the others in the market?

Arxaw, you think that is what is going on with KNWA down here as well?

You think they are just buying time in order to save money as long as possible?Yes.


That is a shame. Is KY3 that much better off financially than the others in the market?No.


Arxaw, you think that is what is going on with KNWA down here as well?Yes.
Every day KNWA, KOLR & KSFX don't have a full power station is another day that Deathstar (http://nexstar.tv/) doesn't have to pay the power bill for it.

I personally don't watch any channels that aren't on the hd menu of my dish guide, except for ky3, so kolr & ksfx don't have my viewership anyway, and the only way they will get it is during NFL. I did not waste 10's of thousands of dollars on plasma tv's, and a dedicated AV room with a 118 inch front projection set up, to watch that crappy broadcast quality.

I personally don't watch any channels that aren't on the hd menu of my dish guide, except for ky3, so kolr & ksfx don't have my viewership anyway, and the only way they will get it is during NFL. I did not waste 10's of thousands of dollars on plasma tv's, and a dedicated AV room with a 118 inch front projection set up, to watch that crappy broadcast quality.

Man, it looks bad enough on my 65" set. I bet it is really bad at 118"......

all I know is that every time I drive by KOLR/KSFX I want to throw rocks at their building...... :(

as for the moving thing with DirecTV, I never could get them to get me HD locals. Every time I tried to "move" to a location in the DMZ that was considered eligible, they still said I needed a waiver. I guess I am just not smooth enough with the techs :P

I have tried moving in the past (twice) and still couldnt get the national HD feeds.

Now a question I do have that can't find an answer for:

Since one can subscribe to local content over DirecTV and DirecTV claims it is putting up a bunch of sats to push down "local HD signals", is this avaliable in Springfield yet?

Another words, could one subscribe the local and HD and recieve the national ABC, CBS, and FOX feeds? My gut feeling is "no" since I cant find anything about it. -Never mind on this, just found it on the website: HD Local Channels: High-definition (HD) local channels from DIRECTV are not available in your area at this time.

Latest Email from KOLR Need to start at bottom and work up:


I'm not aware of any temporary waivers but will check into it.

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 6:43 PM
To: dsmith@kolr10.com
Subject: RE: KOLR and HD


Mr. Smith,

I am sorry to hear that.

Would it be possible to get a temporary waiver so one could get the HD
feed from another region.

I understand that once HD is available, that waiver is automatically
revoked.

Thanks



-----Original Message-----
From: David Smith [mailto:dsmith@kolr10.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 3:32 PM
To:
Cc: Dean Wasson
Subject: RE: KOLR and HD

We have everything on order but ran into a problem with the tower &
won't be able to complete the project until mid-November. Thanks for the
inquiry.

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 1:09 PM
To: dsmith@kolr10.com
Subject: KOLR and HD


Mr. Smith,

I am a DirecTV HD subscriber and have been for some time. I have
applied in the past for a waiver to recieve a HD CBS signal (which I was
denied). That is understandable since your station indicated that it
would be up to full power HD by September, if not late August
(pre-season NFL). That is what was explained to me last winter.

My question is: What is the current status of KOLR and HD broadcasting?

Many thanks.



Of course I thanked him, but it is interesting to note that he carbon copied his response to me to Dean Wasson. Is he the GM of KOLR?

Here is my latest. Nothing new, but though I would pass it on.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Smith
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:29 AM
To:
Cc: Dean Wasson; Nancy Bingaman
Subject: RE: DTV

Yes. Both KSFX & KOLR are on the same schedule. DirecTV & DISH are not
capable of rebroadcasting our HD signal currently but will at some
point. Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:55 AM
To: David Smith
Subject: RE: DTV


Mr. Smith,

Thank you for your reply. I am looking forward to the HD signal
as soon as I can get it. I currently receive local channels through
DirecTV. Are you not planning on selling (or however it works) your HD
feed to the satellite companies? Assuming you would, I would think that
as soon as it was available, then my waiver to receive distant HD
channels would no longer be valid (or needed) and you would have my
business regardless.

I actually have hopes of having a good enough OTA digital signals from
all the local stations that I can cancel my local feeds though DirecTV
and save $$.

Can you tell me if KSFX (27) the partner to KOLR (10) is on the same
schedule for HD as KOLR (10) is?

Thank you again,

I have tried moving in the past (twice) and still couldnt get the national HD feeds.A friend of mine just "moved" to Mena, AR, just last week and got NY HD channels added free. All that was required was an HD receiver and a subscription to local channels. In Mena, their local channels are from Little Rock. My "service" address is in Mena, too, and I get the same channels.

Since one can subscribe to local content over DirecTV and DirecTV claims it is putting up a bunch of sats to push down "local HD signals", is this avaliable in Springfield yet? [/B]No.
Even if DirecTV had the satellite capacity (they won't until next year), they couldn't offer all the Springfield locals in HD right now because some of the Springfield local stations aren't even broadcasting in HD yet.

has anyone heard any updates for dish network. Awhile ago they were saying springfield would be in the first 50 markets to receive hd locals, how is that coming along?

...he carbon copied his response to me to Dean Wasson. Is he the GM of KOLR?
Yes, according to their operating agreement with Nexstar (http://www.nexstar.tv/stations/kolr.asp).

has anyone heard any updates for dish network. Awhile ago they were saying springfield would be in the first 50 markets to receive hd locals, how is that coming along?
Can't/won't happen until all Springfield locals go full power HD. See similar post re DirecTV above your post.

cable carries nbc & abc hd now, what does it matter if cbs & fox go full power, & I doubt if the wb/upn station ever goes full power

Dish & DirecTV uplink local HD using local OTA antennas to receive the signal. It would be a waste of money to waste limited spotbeams on a market where they can reliably receive only 2 local HD stations (PBS & NBC) OTA. A market that doesn't have the big 4 full power HD OTA yet will move to the bottom of the HD list.

How about 33 going full power hd?

Dish & DirecTV uplink local HD using local OTA antennas to receive the signal.
This is the default/normal method (and DirecTV foots the bill), but if I remember correctly, local broadcasters can provide an alternate delivery method like a fiber or microwave feed to the local receive facility if the broadcaster pays for it.

Of course even if some of the (so far) non-HD stations here were willing to do that, it's possible DirecTV/Dish would still decline to carry it since it's not a signal available over-the-air in the market.

D*'s normal reception method for uplinking locals is via OTA antenna.

Of course they would decline adding a non-HD station digital station to their HD lineup. There's no point.

MrBeReady,

Some smaller stations have "flash cut" from analog to digital broadcasting. Do you think there's any chance that some stations will shut down analog or at least reduce power before Feb '09, in order to save on enormous electricty costs? I'm hoping KSFX 27 will do this (so I can get KFTA-DT 27 out of NW Arkansas).

Some smaller stations have "flash cut" from analog to digital broadcasting. Do you think there's any chance that some stations will shut down analog or at least reduce power before Feb '09, in order to save on enormous electricty costs? I'm hoping KSFX 27 will do this (so I can get KFTA-DT 27 out of NW Arkansas).
Hmmmm... this is an interesting question. I don't think reduced power is an option, although maybe a motivated station could convince the FCC to give them an STA to do so. Ending analog transmission early would seem to be easier to do (as you've pointed out, some stations already have been able to do this).

My best guess is that KSFX would not risk alienating analog OTA viewers any earlier than they have to. They'll wait until the shutdown date along with almost everyone else.

The only station in this market I could potentially see shutting down early would be Springfield 33. With their emphasis on "Springfield only", and pretty high cable/DBS penetration here, and two UHF transmitters to power, I could see that happening.

And I would guess UPN 15 (The CW 15 by then?), WB31/56 (? by then) and the various low power religious stations will flash cut to DTV on their current channel at the shutdown date.

Has any one seen how terrible the hd picture is on ky3 since they have 3 stations. I cant even watch it and i was so excited about the sunday night football. That and the hockey playoffs were just to blurry to watch. I am very dissapointed with ky3 because they just dont care about the quality.

I have never been able to lock on to KOZK-DT for any real period of time. I am not sure why. I get KYTV-DT with a signal strength of 93, and KOLR-DT KSFX-DT register around a 30 signal strength.

Most of the time KOZK-DT is a flat line 0 signal, with occasional bumps into the 70's......

Any ideas as to what may be causing this?

XG 91 UHF antenna, with channel master amp located just northwest of Harrison......

... I would guess UPN 15 (The CW 15 by then?), WB31/56 (? by then) and the various low power religious stations will flash cut to DTV on their current channel at the shutdown date.
Most LPTV stations will probably flashcut to digital, but many will likely do it after Feb 09. The mandatory analog shutdown currently only applies to full power stations.

Has any one seen how terrible the hd picture is on ky3 since they have 3 stations...
Yes, the poor 1080i quality is very apparent on a big screen HDTV.

Send complaints to the CE & GM at:
http://www.ky3.com/contact/

I don't know if it is possible to "move" to kansas city viewing area, but I know that kc natives having been watching the chiefs for the better part of 2 years in HD. whats a good address to move to w/ dish network?

I can say with some degree of competence that 'moving' to KC can be done with both DISH and Direct in Springfield. KC does indeed offer HD Locals (which can be received in Springfield, since SGF is in the spot beam for KC, if you can get the 5 headed D* dish and a H20 box)

I can say there's another area in Northcentral AR in the Springfield market where you can get both the Springfield and NYC locals (the HD versions that is)

Although if you play your cards right, you can get KC and NYC locals. I'm not about to post here how to do it, but it can be done.

Most addresses on Main St. in downtown eureka springs, AR qualify (http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com) for Springfield standard def locals and NYC HD locals on directv. The courthouse (44 S. Main, ZIP 72632) is a good address to "move" to - just add and apartment number to it.

Call DirecTV and tell them you've moved and you've done a self install, and you just need to give them your new service address. Tell them your mailing address and phone number won't change.

If they don't turn on the NYC HD channels during the "move" call, call D* back, (say the word OPERATOR twice, when asked "how may I help you?") and tell them you're supposed to be getting channels 80-CBS-HD, 82-NBC-HD, 86-ABC-HD & 88-FOX-HD, but they aren't coming in. They're free if your address qualifies, you subscribe to Springfield Standard Def locals, have a 3 or 5LNB dish and HD receiver. You may have to reboot your receiver after the "move" before the NY channels will appear in the channel list.

Most addresses on Main St. in downtown eureka springs, AR qualify (http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com) for Springfield standard def locals and NYC HD locals on directv. The courthouse (44 S. Main, ZIP 72632) is a good address to "move" to - just add and apartment number to it.

Call DirecTV and tell them you've moved and you've done a self install, and you just need to give them your new service address. Tell them your mailing address and phone number won't change.

If they don't turn on the NYC HD channels during the "move" call, call D* back, (say the word OPERATOR twice, when asked "how may I help you?") and tell them you're supposed to be getting channels 80-CBS-HD, 82-NBC-HD, 86-ABC-HD & 88-FOX-HD, but they aren't coming in. They're free if your address qualifies, you subscribe to Springfield Standard Def locals, have a 3 or 5LNB dish and HD receiver. You may have to reboot your receiver after the "move" before the NY channels will appear in the channel list.

what about getting KC locals in lawernce/green county on E

I've never had E* (D* subscriber since 1995), so I don't know.

well it has been a pleasure visiting with you guys about our local tv stations, but i will have to make this my last post as I have "moved" to Butler, MO. So I will be busily watching KC Chiefs football, I am hoping to move back to springfield someday soon, when the opportunity presents itself, so I may peak in on you guys. Any way best of luck to you all

bizwiz out

I'm not about to post here how to do it, but it can be done.

then why bother posting in the forum if you are unwilling to share information. this forum is to help each other and to discuss, not to play the "i have something you dont have" game.

if you have read this entire string it is posted numerous times how to move.

... I have "moved" to Butler, MO. So I will be busily watching KC Chiefs football, I am hoping to move back to springfield someday soon, when the opportunity presents itself...

heheh, I hear they get *really* good HDTV in Butler... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gif

ARXAW how many times have you moved? :P You think they would catch on by now...lol

I moved on super bowl sunday a couple of years ago and did have a csr mention I moved alot. Part of the moving was legit, part not. Thankfully, I work in a position that I do have to move somewhat frequently, so I didn't feel too bad discussing it.

I've "moved" at least 5 times with D* and currently my uh, "service" address is in Mena, AR.

All addresses in Mena, AR qualify for Little Rock SD locals (and the NYC HD locals, which are free, if you sub to the LR locals). I'm on the edge of the D* LR spot beam, so the LR locals probably can't be received much farther north of the Ark/MO border.

I've never had been questioned from D* at all about "moving".

Thought some of you might be interested to know that the NBC affiliate in Rogers, AR is now broadcasting a digital signal. They are also carrying the FOX affiliate from Ft. Smith as a sub channel. The signal is supposed to reach just SW of Springfield. Channel 50, and it remaps to 51-1 and 51-2.

you don't really need another NBC I know, but the Fox might give you some regional baseball and football differences.........

I should add the Fox subchannel is not in HD, but 480i.....

And although NBC on KNWA-DT is 1080i, it suffers from lack of sufficient bandwidth to do HD 1080i without noticeable artifacts on scenes with lots of motion. KNWA-DT multicasts, like NBC-KYTV-DT.

Sad.

Does anyone else have a giant white stripe across their digital abc 33 stations or is just me.

I cant' get 33-1 from Springfield, but KHOG-DT 29-1 in Fayetteville does not have a white stripe across the image.

Is the stripe on everything or is it local only or network only?

the line is on all the time and on everything it is about a third from the top of the screen.

Hell, I can't even get 33 and I live in Springfield...lol I gave up on them a while back.

Yes I have the White bar also on 33. Kind of got in the way the other night during the ND game. Any idea what it might be?

the line is on all the time and on everything it is about a third from the top of the screen.
Contact KSPR's Chief Engineer HERE (http://www.springfield33.com/inform/contact.htm).

Hell, I can't even get 33 and I live in Springfield...lol I gave up on them a while back.

So did I. I dont even watch local television unless it is something on KOZK (21-2).

Not much worth on NBC until football season and the other locals just suck, until they get HD, that is.

Contacted Neal Evans
"I have been having white bars on the HDTV screen all weekend. Just wondering if you might know what is causing that. I know from reading a local forum that my TV is not the only one. Just wondering if you had any idea about what it could be. Thank you for your attention in this manner and for broadcasting HDTV for your viewers, unlike other local networks."

Neal Evans Reply
"There seems to be some problems with the encoding equipment that is sending the HD feed to cable. This is Mediacaom's equipment and we are working with them to clear it up."

I really appreciated the quick response and just wanted the people on the forum know that it appears that they and KY3 are listening to their consumers concerns.

Contacted Neal Evans
Thank you for your attention in this manner and for broadcasting HDTV for your viewers, unlike other local networks."
Broadcasting HD? When did they start?

Broadcasting HD? When did they start?

I don't know. I just got my TV last week and plugged in the cable and got 3 HD channels from the cable. Watched the N.D. game saturday in HD. I don't think that the signal is very strong but it is going through the cable. BTW the white bars are gone.

ABC only passes HD onto Mediacom right now...as far as I know they still haven't sent it over the towers.

Putting the signal on a cable system requiring subscription is not broadcasting. Broadcasting is sent over the air and it's free.

Evidently, KSPR doen't care about their OTA viewers.

Nice,

Not even into the first quarter of the game tonight on NBC and there is already pixelation. I really wish that KY3 would drop that stupid Weather Plus. It is totally worthless

yep.. I turned it off

PLEASE complain to KYTV's Chief Engineer and their General Manager.
http://www.ky3.com/contact
Tell them how lousy the game looked last night.

I emailed them and the GM called me one day to talk about multicasting and PQ degradation. They *are* aware of the problem, but need to be reminded that 3-2 needs to be done away with ASAP. It is affecting the station's image as a leader in the area.

PLEASE complain to KYTV's Chief Engineer and their General Manager.
http://www.ky3.com/contact

I emailed them and the GM called me one day to talk about multicasting and PQ degradation. They *are* aware of the problem, but need to be reminded that 3-2 needs to be done away with ASAP. It is affecting the station's image as a leader in the area.


Just sent them one. Hopefully more will send their way adn they do something about it.

The addition of WeatherPlus aggravated the problem, but 3-2 (UPN 15) is the biggest bandwidth robber. They have very little BW allocated to WPlus. I would like to see 3-2 and 3-3 go away, but that ain't gonna happen. At best, they will get rid of upn15 on 3-2, which is a complete waste of bandwidth, IMO.

The picture on KNWA 51-1 was better than KYTV. They also multicast, but the picture was better in my opinion.

Again, if you live in SW Springfield, you should be able to pick that NBC affiliate up.

with 3-2 being the CW station now, I doubt it is going anywhere. It is funny that almost everysingle show on the CW is listed as an HD program on my DirecTV media guide..lol

NBC Football Pixellation:

It's the Harris encoders. Check the Indianapolis thread for a discussion of this. Lots of NBC affiliates bitched, and they have a temporary fix, now.

The CW: They deserve a seperate xmtr and channel assignment in SGF. It's a large enough market. Note that the same situation is happening over in the Cape market, where the CW signal from Paducah is being broadcast as a subchannel of KFVS.

Got an email from KY3 today about the PQ during the game last night.

It is as follows:

Chris,

We are constantly looking for ways to change the nature of the
statistical multiplex of the three digital channels in a way that
minimizes the impact on the HD channel while keeping the two SD channels
presentable.

The current focus is on a newer, more efficient multiplexing scheme.
The research is ongoing. This has always been a bit of a science
project for us, one that we are trying to get better at as we close in
on the sunset date for analog television.

Thanks for taking the time to write.

Tom McKleroy
Chief Engineer, KY3 Inc.

They *are* aware of the problem, but need to be reminded that 3-2 needs to be done away with ASAP. It is affecting the station's image as a leader in the area.
KOLR, KDEB, and KSPR aren't even broadcasting in HD, so I don't think KY's image is in serious jeopardy.

KOLR, KDEB, and KSPR aren't even broadcasting in HD, so I don't think KY's image is in serious jeopardy.

I must respectfully disgress on that, MechanicalMan...


As arxaw has pointed out in the past, "HD" and "1080i" are completely different things. I've seen KY3's "HD" feed, and I agree it's very disappointing compared to most OTA HD I have seen. Granted, KOLR, KSFX, and KSPR aren't in HD, but KY3's "HD" gives real HD a bad name. It looks a little better than analog, much like sub-quality DVD. Multicasting takes away serious bandwidth from an HD channel....it takes away the "eye balls coming out of sockets :eek: " effect that true HD does. I think KYTV is giving a false impression to the public on what HD really is... just my .02, of course :rolleyes:

KOLR, KDEB, and KSPR aren't even broadcasting in HD, so I don't think KY's image is in serious jeopardy.KOLR, KSFX or KSPR are not the issue.

For many many viewers, KYTV-DT is no longer the only NBC station available. Now that KNWA-DT is on the air with a better encoder, less multicasting and much higher HD PQ, KYTV has lost a lot of HD viewers. In fact, so many viewers that they will probably lose at least one county to the Fayetteville, AR, Ft. Smith Market, in the next Neilsen DMA rankings.

Clean up your HD, KYTV.

Arkie and arxaw, or anyone else...... would you guys mind posting what kind of antenna / antenna setup you have? I have just purchased my first HDTV, but haven't hooked it up yet, but I am guessing that my antenna situation will need upgraded for me to get all the channels I want. I am sure I will need to look to Arkansas. Springfield is such a shame. I have the biggest antenna that my local Radio Shack sold about 5 years ago. I think it is a channel master, but I can't remember. I have recieved locals over satelitte for some time because I never did get a very good signal OTA and Tivo.

Thanks for the info,
Bill

Bill,
If you can get NWA stations, you'll get a lot more OTA HD and higher quality.
I use a ChannelMaster CM 4228 UHF antenna, which also works well for upper VHF chs 7 thru 13. It is amplified with a CM 7777 V/U preamp, and I have a radio shack antenna rotor. The whole thing is on a tower about 25-30' tall.
Here it is. The dish on the tower is wildblue internet. The little dish to the right is D*.
http://i8.tinypic.com/264jtjs.jpg

For other reviews of the 4228/7777 antenna/preamp combo, jump over to the Little Rock, AR thread, HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8394992&&#post8394992).

You can order the 4228 & 7777 at warrenelectronics dot com. Very reliable folks and they ship everything fedex ground.

I have the 4228 in my attic and I love it! Wife wont let me put it on the roof ;P

FWIW, in the above picture, my 4228 is aimed at Winslow, Ark. and I still get Springfield KYTV-DT and KOZK-DT with 80% signal strength @ 69.1 air miles away. But I no longer watch NBC-HD on KYTV . Their multicasting has reduced the 1080i PQ to somewhere below DVD quality or worse, depending on the amount of motion in the picture.

I now watch NBC-HD on KNWA. Their new 1000kW transmitter is in Northeast Benton County, in Northwest AR, not far from the MO border. If you're in SW MO, turn your antenna toward NW Ark., do a re-scan, and you'll likely pick up KNWA-DT on 51-1 (RF ch 50).

Thanks for all the great info. Looks like I need to buy a CM4228 and a rotor. I already have a preamp, but again, don't remember what brand or model, but I will use it unless I need to keep it on my old boom type antenna. I was going to ask about (and or research) the possibility of having two seperate antennas pointing in different directions to eliminate the need for turning when changing channels, but I'll hold off on that until I get everything installed and see what I get.

Thanks again,
Bill

... I was going to ask about (and or research) the possibility of having two seperate antennas pointing in different directions to eliminate the need for turning when changing channels, but I'll hold off on that until I get everything installed and see what I get.Combining antennas in different directions is a crap shoot, at best. It often lowers overall signal strength. The best way to use two antennas is to run two separate coaxes and connect them to two ANT-IN jacks on your TV, if available. Or use an A/B switch box, if your TV doesn't have two antenna inputs. Radio Shack has an A/B switch (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049643&cp=&origkw=a%2Fb+switch&kw=a%2Fb+switch&parentPage=search) that is remote controlled.

It's a good idea to wait and see what your reception is with one antenna. Depending on terrain where you live, you may not need a rotor if you have a good OTA tuner + good antenna and preamp.

What are the odds of getting FOX and CBS in HD, OTA from another city if you live in SW springfield (almost in Battelfield)?

Now what are the chance of picking that up via an antenna in the second floor attic space?

I'd probably pop for one if there was a good shot at it, but I'm no expert on OTA. Currently I'm getting NBC and ABC HD by tuning the unencrypted HD feeds from cable, into a MYHD-130 card in my computer, and timeshifting it for later viewing in my theater/projector.

What are the odds of getting FOX and CBS in HD, OTA from another city if you live in SW springfield (almost in Battelfield)?
About the same odds as picking up HDTV from kolr-dt. NONE.

It's possible to get WABC-HD, WCBS-HD, FOX WNYW-HD & WNBC-HD from NY on DirecTV, but it involves "moving". "Moving" has previously been discussed at length in this thread.

Has anyone in the area tried Star Choice? It looks like a 24-30" dish should work here. I noticed they offer US Network HDTV from Detroit and Seattle and Canadian HDTV from Toronto. Better still the HDTV network signals are free with one of their basic packages. I know this involves having a "canadian" address, but if you're going to move, why not make it a major one? I'm curious as to their quality.

Thanks for the input arxaw. I was afraid that would be the answer. I'm not interested in HD from Directv. Too much hassle, and setup costs invovled with my theater setup.

Guess I'll just keep bit torrenting CSI and Prison Break, until Springfield gets out of the dark ages. ;(

Not including your theater setup, there are no startup or equipment costs for new directv HD customers.

I wonder why KYTV-DT is not doing the today show in 1080i?
It's in HD on KNWA-DT (OTA) and WNBC-DT (DirecTV), but not on KYTV-DT.

Because nobody watches the Today Show

Not that I was watching the Today Show, but I did notice this morning (Monday 18 Sept) that KY3 is now broadcasting it in widescreen HD

or at least widescreen 1080i.

correct.

I wonder how difficult it would be for KY3 to just move 3-2 and 3-3 to another channel? like 15-1 or something.

any reason why they cant do that?

That would involve a digital allocation and a digital license for the low power station. That's a process that's just getting started with the FCC. That's going to take a while.

A year ago I found it hard to believe that it was taking so long for 10, 27, & 33 to launch full power digital. We're still waiting.

Now 10 & 27 have launched a new hype campaign about "preserving local tv". It's very similiar in execution to the DTV misinformation campaign of a few years ago. At that time they whined that if they didn't get free DTV bandwidth automatically as an existing broadcaster then local TV would go away.

This new push is to allow companies (Nexstar in this case) to own more than one station in a small market (Springfield and others). Their argument is that the local market gets more local programming by group owners. To back this up they point to a whopping 8 hours of non-news "local" programming. This includes the sponsored infomercial "Life at the Lake", the fully sponsored "I Love America", etc. It takes nerve to call local advertising local programming.

Then they claim that their combined operations have resulted in more diverse news coverage. Anyone else feel the 10 o'clock 10 news is anything more than the 9 o'clock 27 news without the filler stories? How about the pre-produced "news" segments provided by lobbying groups that both 10 & 27 have used without identification. They won't even answer inquiries about those.

The evidence they provide on their special website does more to disprove their claim rather than support it. Even the FCC had a report showing that media consolidation dramatically lowered local programming on stations.

So I guess it comes down to credibility. Both 10 & 27 were pushers of bandwidth for DTV. Then once they got it they have done little to use the new bandwidth rather than squat on it to show possession. Now they want the public to believe that they are trustworthy enough to own multiple stations in a market. Hmmm...perhaps they should get back to us after they fulfull their digital (Hopefully HDTV) promises.

I may have overlooked it, but from this list at the FCC (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=&arn=&city=springfield&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9), I didn't see any "NEW" applications for LD (Low power Digital) stations from KY3, Inc. the owner of K15CZ. So I guess KYTV-DT will continue degrading NBC-HD with multicasting on with 3-2 (and 3-3) for the time being.

For now, I'll watch NBC-HD on KNWA-DT. It looks a lot more "HD" than KY3's 1080i signal. KNWA's brand new 1000kw transmitter is at Garfield, AR. People near Branson, Nixa, Republic and Joplin should be able to receive it with a decent antenna/preamp setup.
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT1006433.gif

I can see it now, 3-1 is NBC, 3-2 is ABC, 3-3 is 15, 3-4 is Weather Plus...

How does the FCC consider our market fairly served when we have 2 companies running 5 stations? This is getting out of hand!!!!!!


http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060921/BREAKING03/60921019


In a shakeup of the local television media landscape, KY3, the region’s NBC affiliate, in conjunction with Perkin Media, has signed an agreement to purchase KSPR-TV, the local ABC affiliate, according to an announcement made this afternoon.

Springfield-based Perkin Media will purchase KSPR’s FCC license and intellectual property, while KY3, Inc. — owned by Schurz Communications Inc. of South Bend, Ind. — will acquire the non-FCC assets of the station and partner with Perkin Media to operate KSPR.

The transaction is subject to regulatory approval, but is expected to be completed in the first quarter of 2007, the release said.

News-Leader.com will report further developments in this breaking story as they become available.

well.. maybe we will actually be able to pick up 33 in springfield now with our OTA setup :P

well.. maybe we will actually be able to pick up 33 in springfield now with our OTA setup :P


Actually this just delays it, there is no reason for KSPR to care right now, and the FCC will take it's sweet time to accept the merger, it will probably be next summer or fall now before we see ABC ota.

If this is approved, I'm betting you'll see K15CZ (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=49186) "the CW" (3-2) moved to (33-2).

I heard that KYTV was "looking at options" to move K15CZ off of 3-2, due to NBC-HD PQ problems.

If this is approved, I'm betting you'll see K15CZ (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=49186) "the CW" (3-2) moved to (33-2).

I heard that KYTV was "looking at options" to move K15CZ off of 3-2, due to NBC-HD PQ problems.

I agree, just hope they borrowed enough money to get HD up and going before nascar raceing next year.

Wow, what a great night for reception. I temporarily put up a new antenna at eave level with a 10 db amp. 3 and 21 are 95%. Tonight I started hunting for other Missouri stations manually. I couldn't get anything from Columbia/Jefferson City even though the analog reception was quite good. I did lock onto Fox2 (rf43), NBC5 (rf35), ABC30 (rf 31 I don't know where KWBM went tonight) and CW11 (rf26) from St. Louis. These came off the back of the yagi antenna. That's a distance of about 120 miles. I often receive the analog signals so now I'm thinking about putting up a tower I bought a few years ago and and better amp, etc. I know a lot of the signal I'm getting tonight is due to the weather, but even if I could capture them some of the time it would beat waiting for the rest of the Springfield stations. It's funny I can get chs. 7, 12, 14 & 16 out of the Joplin area with a strong signal (analog), but I still can't and never have received anything digital from 10, 27 or 33.

...It's funny I can get chs. 7, 12, 14 & 16 out of the Joplin area with a strong signal (analog), but I still can't and never have received anything digital from 10, 27 or 33.IIRC, all of those cheapa** stations are still low power too , just like most springfield stations.

What direction do you live from downtown Springfield area?

Springfield is WSW from me (about 256 degrees). I'm a little past the alleged coverage area 10 & 27 show for their current digital power level. I don't even get a blip from them. As the night went on the only St. Louis dtv station I couldn't get was the CBS affiliate (is there a pattern here?). Checked out the Jefferson City CBS affiliate and they are nowhere near full power yet either. In that market only the NBC affiliate is full power digital.

As far as subchannels go, the NBC in STL had only weatherplus as a subchannel, CW11 had the music channel "The Tube", Ch. 9 (PBS) had three subchannels in addition to their main HD channel. The ABC affiliate didn't have any subchannels.

Anyway it was a fun night. I'm still getting them sporadically now that they're scanned in. So the tower, etc just became a "do it before winter" project.

I'm probably the only viewer that KSPR-DT has, since I *Can* get it downtown (I dont' live too far from their current home on St. Louis St), but KSFX I can't get easily. (It has like 40% signal) KOLR is non-existant.

In the Joplin market, I can verify that KOZJ is the only Full Power station (I do get it sporadically where I live, which is right up the street from KOZK's studios at MSU) in the market.

This may be old news, but I was researching various stations, power, towers, range, etc. Both KOLR and KSFX show their digital antenna at zero meters above ground level. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but if this is true how could anyone say these stations are really trying to broadcast a digital signal. Their proclaimed digital coverage area seems to be drastically inflated.

I am surprised that 10 & 27 haven't committed to providing HDTV in anything more than general terms. The November ratings period is coming up. The saturation of HDTV or least sets capable of receiving a digital signal is becoming significant. And I know that I always check to see if anything interesting is in HD before I check the "other" channels. If they don't have their digital signal fully operational by then, this may be the first ratings period where the lack of digital may affect the ratings.

This may be old news, but I was researching various stations, power, towers, range, etc. Both KOLR and KSFX show their digital antenna at zero meters above ground level.
Nobody broadcasts with an antenna at ground level. For one thing, you'd have huge radiation safety issues with people able to get so close to the antenna. Where is that information coming from?

KOLR-DT has an STA to broadcast using an antenna listed at 172m HAAT (height above average terrain). KSFX-DT's STA lists an antenna at 180m HAAT.

The information comes from the Special Temporary Authority information about each of the stations on the FCC website. AGL=Above Ground Level. HAAT=Height Above Average Terrain...not an indicator of where the antenna is located on a tower. Likewise I doubt that the antenna truly is at ground level, perhaps under the terms of the STA they show it at zero with the understanding that the height may move due to construction of the full power facilities/antenna. Do a TV Query using the station call letters at the FCC website and you'll see what I mean.

I found some interesting applications/cp's for digital that cover Springfield while I was browsing. There was a previous post that had some of this information.

Application - Ch. 11 - Word of God Fellowship - 20 mi. radius from Springfield
Construction Permit - Ch 49 TBN - 25 mi. radius from Springfield
Construction Permit - Ch 17 - Marshfield, NLEC, already on analog 17
Application - Ch. 36 - Branson - The Vacation Channel
Construction Permit - K41FQ - TBN - Ch 41 - 35 mi. range from Fordland
Application - K54FX - Ch. 39 - 15 mile range from Springfield
Application - KNJD-LP - Ch 42 - NLEC - 35 mi. radius from Merriam Woods
There are some more applications from NLEC for various towns throughout the area.

Most interesting find is that KOPLAR communications (former owner of CH 11 - St Louis) has been authorized to build a new ANALOG ch 49 station near Osage Beach, MO. The signal (5MW ERP) will easily cover Springfield. I could not find a digital application for them, but that may come later as I can't imagine the investment just to broadcast analog for a couple of years.

From the St. Louis Business Journal interview with the president of KOPLAR communications: Why are you getting back in the TV station business now?

The area is a good market. The license is at Osage Beach but the station will serve Springfield. We want our station to be the station of the future, and it will be using VEIL technology to connect with viewers.

FWIW, there's a religious station in Eureka Springs that has a new application to move from channel 18 to channel 22 (due to interference with the CBS affiliate out of NWA - also on ch 18). Their channel 22 application is for an analog station. All analog licenses expire Feb 17, 2009.

Here's some info on "VEIL technology (http://www.veilinteractive.com/2003/VEILBatwave.htm)". The article was dated from 2004, and I've never heard of it.

There's some interesting information about the CH 49 Osage Beach/Springfield station. They plan to be on the air in a year to 18 months. Based on when they were issued a construction permit that could be as early as next August. Digital will follow. Also there's some rumors that it might become a CW affiliate. If they did that might affect whether ch. 15 remained CW or not.

The "Veil Technology" that they have referred to is a process that KOPLAR owns. The new station may become a way for them to showcase the technology and prove its value.

The Springfield market is due for some shaking up in my opinion. The corporate owners are just too distant to react to and serve the local area. (Okay, ch 3 does try harder). Even OPT doesn't have the community spirit they had before SMSU or MUS or whatever they call themselves took over.

There's some interesting information about the CH 49 Osage Beach/Springfield station. They plan to be on the air in a year to 18 months.
If you're referring to the KOPLAR channel 49, Mr. Lischwe of KOPLAR has petitioned for a channel change from ch 49 (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=128189). So 49 in Osage Beach will not be built.

Channel 49, community of license - Springfield, is already licensed to Trinity Broadcasting Network as K49DG, an analog translator station. They have a construction permit (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=68092) for an LD (Lowpower Digital) translator station, and will likely "flash-cut" from analog 49 to digital 49 when construction is completed.

TBN doesn't do CW.

Actually if you look up the petition for channel change it was done in 2003. Although listed as a "change" it really did nothing more than allocate channel 49 to the Osage Beach area. Koplar was granted a construction permit for ch. 49 on August 11, 2006. Their coverage area on their construction permit shows it covering Springfield. I realize that there may be a conflict with ch 49 in Springfield, but in the scope of things the low power station would have to take a back seat to the full power station, especially since the current ch. 49 in Springfield is not designated as a Class A station. Most likely they would just change to another frequency.

I know that TBN doesn't do CW. My comment was that ch. 15, low power CW in Springfield, might lose their network affiliation if the new station chose to carry it.

KY3 will in all probablility be able to keep the CW on their high powered digital sub channel 3-2.

If their takeover of KSPR is approved, hopefully they'll move it to 33-2 and free up some bandwidth for 3-1, their bandwidth-starved NBC-1080i sub channel.

Not that it really matters, but it could help.....

Has everyone here sent at least one email to KOLR about not having HD and to KY3 for their poor quality?

Just wondering.

I gave up on KY3's 1080i NBC and started watching NBC-HD on KNWA 51-1.
They multicast, too, but only 1 sub-channel. Also, their encoder is newer, so it works a *lot* better than KY'3s.

I am just outside of thier range. I live in SW Springfield just off Plainview Road.

sigh...

Sending email to the stations is important. I am surprised that the stations don't have someone on here to review comments, questions, etc. and respond to them. In some other markets station representatives have taken part not only answering questions, but asking for reception and problem reports. If they took part it would at least show some interest rather than continually making excuses for delays. It seems to me that 10, 27, and 33 have a public relations opportunity they are ignoring.

If you want real attention, write the local advertisers, not the stations. Tell them they should request a rate reduction since their commercials are not reaching high-income HDTV owners. Advertisers are constantly looking for ammo to get their rates reduced. A complaint from one advertiser carries the weight of a thousand viewer letters.

I've been playing around with my antenna and receiver to see what digital stations I can receive. I found that on my receiver I seemed to have better luck manually scanning channels rather than using the automatic scan. I created this list of "most likely" channels to try manually. I check out analog skip reception to determine what areas I'm receiving, reaim the antenna, and try manually scanning the stations in that area. If I'm receiving 28 analog I try Kansas City, 30 for St. Louis, 17 for Columbia, 29 for Fayetteville, etc. Some of these aren't full power yet, but it's been fun to try when conditions are right. So far I've captured 8 of them (including 3 and 21 of course).

5 KETS Little Rock PBS
7 KMBC Kansas City ABC
9 KAFT Fayetteville PBS
12 KRCG Jefferson City CBS
12 KTHV Little Rock CBS
13 KOAM Joplin CBS
14 KNLC St. Louis REL
15 KMOS Sedalia PBS
15 KHOG Fayetteville ABC
18 KCPT Kansas City PBS
19 KSPR Springfield ABC
20 KNLJ Jefferson City REL
22 KMIZ Columbia ABC
22 KATV Little Rock ABC
23 KOZK Springfield PBS
24 KCTV Kansas City CBS
25 KOZJ Joplin PBS
26 KPLR St. Louis CW
28 KSFX Springfield FOX
30 KLRT Little Rock FOX
31 KDNL St. Louis ABC
31 KCWE Kansas City ----
32 KARK Little Rock NBC
34 WDAF Kansas City FOX
35 KSDK St. Louis NBC
36 KOMU Columbia NBC
39 KSBN Springdale REL
39 KETC St. Louis PBS
42 KSHB Kansas City NBC
43 KTVI St. Louis FOX
43 KODE Joplin ABC
44 KYTV Springfield NBC
46 KSNF Joplin -----
50 KNWA Rogers NBC
51 KPXE Kansas City ----
52 KOLR Springfield CBS
56 KMOV St. Louis CBS

Why the hell isn't KSFX carrying the Rams game today????? It is listed on Fox's website as having the game!!! GRRRRRR!

Because that movie was more important

Got to love the local stations

I've been playing around with my antenna and receiver to see what digital stations I can receive. I found that on my receiver I seemed to have better luck manually scanning channels rather than using the automatic scan. I created this list of "most likely" channels to try manually. I check out analog skip reception to determine what areas I'm receiving, reaim the antenna, and try manually scanning the stations in that area. If I'm receiving 28 analog I try Kansas City, 30 for St. Louis, 17 for Columbia, 29 for Fayetteville, etc. Some of these aren't full power yet, but it's been fun to try when conditions are right. So far I've captured 8 of them (including 3 and 21 of course).

5 KETS Little Rock PBS
7 KMBC Kansas City ABC
9 KAFT Fayetteville PBS
12 KRCG Jefferson City CBS
12 KTHV Little Rock CBS
13 KOAM Joplin CBS
14 KNLC St. Louis REL
15 KMOS Sedalia PBS
15 KHOG Fayetteville ABC
18 KCPT Kansas City PBS
19 KSPR Springfield ABC
20 KNLJ Jefferson City REL
22 KMIZ Columbia ABC
22 KATV Little Rock ABC
23 KOZK Springfield PBS
24 KCTV Kansas City CBS
25 KOZJ Joplin PBS
26 KPLR St. Louis CW
28 KSFX Springfield FOX
30 KLRT Little Rock FOX
31 KDNL St. Louis ABC
31 KCWE Kansas City ----
32 KARK Little Rock NBC
34 WDAF Kansas City FOX
35 KSDK St. Louis NBC
36 KOMU Columbia NBC
39 KSBN Springdale REL
39 KETC St. Louis PBS
42 KSHB Kansas City NBC
43 KTVI St. Louis FOX
43 KODE Joplin ABC
44 KYTV Springfield NBC
46 KSNF Joplin -----
50 KNWA Rogers NBC
51 KPXE Kansas City ----
52 KOLR Springfield CBS
56 KMOV St. Louis CBS

Don't even bother with KNLC.
KPRL-DT is on-again, off-again due to tower construction
KETC only has a 124 KW ERP.
KSDK, KTVI, and KMOV are full power, but there is a lot of terrain just SW of STL.

Try these links:

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

http://www.mountainlake.k12.mn.us/ham/aprs/path.cgi?map=na

Edited KDNL to KPLR.

Thanks Pinkslice for the links. I'd been looking for some of that information. I'm about 120 miles from the STL transmitters, but I do have a great location on top of a ridge. A few nights ago I managed to get all of the St. Louis digital stations except KNLC and WRBU. KMOV was the weakest, KETC second weakest and KSDK the strongest. These were off the backside of a yagi UHF. Almost every overnight I get analog 9, 11, 24 and 30.

KOLR and KSFX unloaded three semi-trailers full of HDTV equpment at the Fordland transmitter site today. There is still much to be done, but the (full power) transmitters and ancillary equipment are on site. It remains to be seen whether they will be at 1485 ft or the 1665 ft slot formerly used by channel 21.

KSPR has contracted for the 1665 ft space, but probably doesn't want it now.

Letters and e-mails won't do a thing to speed things up as they are already moving pretty fast. All the pieces of the puzzle are in town now. Mundane things like roof and building repair and getting Webster Electric to provide 100 Amps of 408 Volt three phase power are the critical elements.

Not that it really matters, but it could help.....

Has everyone here sent at least one email to KOLR about not having HD and to KY3 for their poor quality?

Just wondering.

Thanks for the heads up rhoops and welcome to the forum.

Do you mean HD equipment or just digital equipment?

KOLR told me they have no plans to carry CBS network HD programming. Of course, the guy I talked to may have not known what he was talking about.....

KSPR has contracted for the 1665 ft space, but probably doesn't want it now....
In July they filed an application with the FCC to lower their originally proposed full power DTV antenna height a bit. Details here (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=419370).

Looks like a great week for tropo reception!
http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

Mundane things like roof and building repair and getting Webster Electric to provide 100 Amps of 408 Volt three phase power are the critical elements.

And they just thought of this now??? What was the thought process, "Gee...we're getting new equipment after talking about it for years...do ya think we oughta fix the roof and check the power requirements?"

The years of delay just further prove the disadvantage of corporate ownership of more than one station in a market...especially one that alternates between saying that their multi-station ownership better serves viewers and fighting technology upgrades for local viewers tooth and nail. At this point it looks like an effort to do as little as possible with no promise to viewers of HD content.

I mean full power HDTV and passing all HDTV network programming for both CBS and Fox. CBS's 1080i programming will be as good or better technical quality as anything on the air.

Thanks for the heads up rhoops and welcome to the forum.

Do you mean HD equipment or just digital equipment?

KOLR told me they have no plans to carry CBS network HD programming. Of course, the guy I talked to may have not known what he was talking about.....

That's good to hear.
I guess the idiot I talked to at KOLR didn't know what he was talking about.

Since KOLR was assigned an "out of core" channel (ch 52) for DTV and can't use it after feb 2009, will they be going back to channel 10 after analog is shut off?

That antenna position is the 1665 ft AGL space where channel 21's antenna was before they moved south to KYTV's old tower.

Channel 10's analog antenna is the top 198 feet of the 2000 ft tower. When analog goes dark the DTV signal will revert to channel 10 and that antenna.

KOLR / KSFX full power antenna will be be at 1485 feet unless KSPR gets out of it's contract for 1665 very quickly. This is a single antenna for channel 28 and 52, and it will be fed with 8" diameter transmission line.

The tower is owned by American Tower and KSPR is would have be paying a lot of money for that space.

In July they filed an application with the FCC to lower their originally proposed full power DTV antenna height a bit. Details here.

Channel 10's analog antenna is the top 198 feet of the 2000 ft tower. When analog goes dark the DTV signal will revert to channel 10 and that antenna...
Thanks.

Will they have to buy another transmitter for broadcasting digitally on channel 10?

The current transmitter is capable of HDTV operation, given the proper exciter. The final amplifiers will be beefed up to handle the heavier duty cycle.


Thanks.

Will they have to buy another transmitter for broadcasting digitally on channel 10?

The current transmitter is capable of HDTV operation, given the proper exciter. The final amplifiers will be beefed up to handle the heavier duty cycle.
Always learning. I didn't know an existing analog xmtr could send out either NTSC or ATSC/8VSB.

Is their current channel 10 transmitter capable of xmitting at ~20 or so kW ERP normally allotted for DT channel 10, instead of the 316 kW currently used for the analog station?

ERP or effective radiated power is a function of antenna gain and transmission line loss. There is also the difference between peak and average power.

The current transmitter puts out about 16 KW average visual power.

Most of the transmitter consists of solid state amplifiers and combiners. If you change out the exciter and adjust the levels so that you don't exceed the duty cycle, the amplifers will take anything you throw at them.


Always learning. I didn't know an existing analog xmtr could send out either NTSC or ATSC/8VSB.

Is their current channel 10 transmitter capable of xmitting at ~20 or so kW ERP normally allotted for DT channel 10, instead of the 316 kW currently used for the analog station?

rhoops,
Thanks for the info, and please keep us updated on construction progress.

Do you work for kolr/ksfx?

Work is a harsh word for what I do, but I am on the payroll.

rhoops,
Thanks for the info, and please keep us updated on construction progress.

Do you work for kolr/ksfx?

That's good to hear.
I guess the idiot I talked to at KOLR didn't know what he was talking about.



I'd almost wager he did know what he was talking about at the time. I wonder how much USDTV's bankruptcy affected KOLR/KSFX HD plans for the Ozarks?

Regardless, it will be nice when we get more HD programming and it's nice to hear of some real progress for a change.

Okay, that is great news on KSPR and KOLR but am I just not looking at he correct channels?

i am trying to pull signals in on 10-1 and 27-1. Do I need to rescan or manually tune in Channels 52 and 28? When I do an autoscan it doesnt seem to pick them up. Any help would be appreciated here.

Also, assuming they could get the Co-Op (Webster) to move on the power, which they should (in my experience with Electric Co-Ops I work in local government and deal with all 3 types of power companies - Co-Op, municipal owned, private owned) how soon does one think it would be up and broadcasting?

thanks

chris

Work is a harsh word for what I do, but I am on the payroll.

Forgot to add in my previous post...Thanks for taking part in this forum. It's good to get some direct information and the fact that it's positive for a change is even better! I'm still surprised that every station doesn't have someone taking part in this forum. It can be a valuable resource.

Just rescanned for OTA channels and didnt pick up 52 or 28. Even after putting them in manually, still didnt get them.

We just unloaded the trucks on Monday. Nothing will change for at least a month.

There is 1700 feet of 8" transmission line and and antenna to be installed. Lots of other work to be done too.

Just rescanned for OTA channels and didnt pick up 52 or 28. Even after putting them in manually, still didnt get them.

I'd almost wager he did know what he was talking about at the time. I wonder how much USDTV's bankruptcy affected KOLR/KSFX HD plans for the Ozarks?Now you got my curiosity up. What plans did (or does) kolr/ksfx have for USDTV (http://www.usdtv.com/)? Hopefully, USDTV wither on the vine, but they are still in operation.

Now you got my curiosity up. What plans did (or does) kolr/ksfx have for USDTV (http://www.usdtv.com/)? Hopefully, USDTV wither on the vine, but they are still in operation.

I'll have to dig back in some files to find it. At one time Nexstar basically said that they wanted to take advantage of the income opportunities of multi-channel broadcasting and other uses of the bandwidth rather than maximizing HD. As I recall there was a statement or press release to that fact on their website. They didn't specifically mention USDTV, but it is one of the few that gave direct compensation to the broadcasters for carrying their signal.

USDTV is on the air in a few markets. There are reputable reports of test signals in other markets before their bankruptcy protection. My speculation is that they would have launched in several more markets this year if they'd had the money to pay stations.

Considering programming packages such as DishNetworks Family plan, I honestly don't see why anyone would choose the USDTV package which is a fraction of the channels for the same price.

USDTV is on the air in a few markets. There are reputable reports of test signals in other markets before their bankruptcy protection. My speculation is that they would have launched in several more markets this year if they'd had the money to pay stations.Yes, their service is on the air in Albuquerque, Dallas/Fort Worth, Las Vegas and Salt Lake City.

I have actually seen USDTV test signals here, including USDTV service promo ad loops. But due to the damned virtual channel remapping crap, I couldn't figure out what RF channel they were on, so I don't know if they were coming from Ft Smith, Fayetteville, Tulsa, Joplin or Springfield! Last time I saw them, they were on 99-1, 99-2, 99-3, 99-4, and several more. I recall some of the channel names included ESPN, HGTV, TLC and Discovery.

I hope their bankruptcy reorganization fails miserably.

I found part of the Nexstar multi-channel references I was thinking of. This is from the 2004 National Association of Broadcaster's convention:

Broadcasters Aim for New Pay Service

In an ambitious plan designed to monetize the digital spectrum, Emmis Communications Chairman and CEO Jeff Smulyan used his podium time during last week's National Association of Broadcasters convention to talk up his sweeping industry initiative for a new multichannel pay television service.

The service, which could be up and running in about a year, would be made possible by broadcasters pooling their digital spectrum...

In addition to Emmis, Mr. Smulyan said, 11 other broadcasters are on board with the initiative. They are: Nexstar Broadcasting Group, Scripps, Clear Channel, Sunbelt Communications, Prime Cities Broadcasting, Meredith Corp., Raycom Media, Media General, Citadel Communications, Fisher Communications and Barrington Broadcasting Co.

... A new multichannel service that is competitive with satellite and cable would allow broadcasters to leverage the investment and compete with cable and satellite operators on the same playing field, Mr. Smulyan said...

"We pool our spectrum and come together as an industry to offer it at a lower price. Every broadcaster receives retransmission and can monetize the digital spectrum,"

Broadcasters would be paid through retransmission payments, cable network licensing fees, ad revenues and a share of the profits. The consortium of broadcasters could reasonably generate revenues of $4 billion to $6 billion within five years, with margins in the high teens to mid-20s...

The investment could be varied for each broadcaster. Some might contribute only spectrum while others would offer spectrum and capital...

Mr. Tupper said the consortium would like to bring U.S. DTV on board.

I've read that news article before. I thought you had specific info concerning kolr/ksfx's involvement in USDTV.

KSPR staff shrinks by 14 employees
By Dee Dee Nilsen
Springfield Business Journal Staff
10/5/2006

Nearly one-quarter of the staff at KSPR-TV is gone this week under management changes that took place at the station Oct. 1.

KY3 Inc. and Perkin Media have signed a definitive agreement that gives KY3 all of KSPR’s non-FCC assets and Perkin Media the station’s intellectual property and FCC license. The transaction is pending regulatory approval and is expected to be complete in first-quarter 2007.

But the sale of the station doesn’t include KSPR employees.

KY3 Inc. President and General Manager Mike Scott said 47 of KSPR’s 65 staff members were re-hired Friday. Four others were hired at either Perkin Media or Piedmont Television, KSPR’s holding company.

Several KSPR employees did not apply for jobs under the new management, but others were let go because they held positions already filled at KY3. Those duplicate positions included general manager and general sales manager, Scott said.

The two stations are in the process of moving part of KSPR’s operations to the KY3 facility, 999 W. Sunshine. The stations will continue to operate at two locations, but Scott said there are long-term plans to expand KY3’s building to accommodate KSPR.

Meanwhile, Scott said KSPR will receive some equipment upgrades, including a conversion to high-definition broadcasting capability.

“We want to invest in the product and the people,” he said. “(KSPR employees) are very enthused and energetic, and if we can combine that with a few new resources, we’re pretty excited about the future.”

Copyright 2006 SBJ

rhoops,

I heard a while back that KYTV was "looking at options" to fix the bandwidth-starved NBC-1080i on 3-1.

Do you think KYTV will eventually move K15CZ off of 3-2 and over to 33-2? They need to do something. NBC-1080i on KY3 is not even near HD quality, especially on sports.

The race yesterday was nearly unwatchable. It could have been mistaked for streaming video on the internet. >:-(

I totally agree the pixelazation was horrible at first I thought I had too many beers :)

The race yesterday was nearly unwatchable. It could have been mistaked for streaming video on the internet. >:-(

I wish I had been drinking..... then maybe I wouldn't have been as pissed about it. It is bad enough I have to watch that oscillating fan that is Bill Weber and his "DRAMA, DRAMA, DRAMA!!!!" but have to watch it as colored boxes moving on the screen really gets me going :<

Maybe we should set up a get together at a local bar to discuss the local HD issues :D



I wish I had been drinking..... then maybe I wouldn't have been as pissed about it. It is bad enough I have to watch that oscillating fan that is Bill Weber and his "DRAMA, DRAMA, DRAMA!!!!" but have to watch it as colored boxes moving on the screen really gets me going :<

I don't want to get kicked out after I ransack the place over my disgust for the HD clarity in this town :P lol

Invite KY3's GM.

lol

I don't want to get kicked out after I ransack the place over my disgust for the HD clarity in this town :P lol
Currently, there is no OTA HD in Springfield. Only ky3's 1080i and kozk's 720p; both of which look worse than a bad DVD.

Article HERE (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=914114&highlight=)

DirecTV (http://www.directv.com) has free installation and no up front equipment cost for their HD receivers, and HD locals are included at no extra charge. No HD package required - only an HD receiver and 5LNB dish.

I already have the H20 reciever... so I only need the 5LNB dish?

The main problem with this is that you can't mount the 5LNB dish on the roof... and I have noplace else to put it :-(

Article HERE (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=914114&highlight=)

DirecTV (http://www.directv.com) has free installation and no up front equipment cost for their HD receivers, and HD locals are included at no extra charge. No HD package required - only an HD receiver and 5LNB dish.

I'm not saying they're lying, but right now they don't have enough bandwidth to keep TNT-HD on during Sundays for football. Now all of a sudden they have more room for LIL? Interesting to say the least...

They don't have room on sunday on 101, 110, or 119. They have plenty of room on 99 and 103. The problem is that they don't want to upgrade every sunday ticket person to the AT9 dish.

I already have the H20 reciever... so I only need the 5LNB dish?

The main problem with this is that you can't mount the 5LNB dish on the roof... and I have noplace else to put it :-(


Why can't you put the AT9 dish on your roof? That is where mine is.


Good to see that Springfield is on the list for local HD channels. If I scanned that article right, it won't happen until early 2007. And hopefully the local networks will have the HD content available by the time DirecTV needs them.

--------And hopefully all the local networks will broadcast a powerful enough digital signal OTA that I can recieve it PLUS broadcast it in a high enough definition that it is better than analog OTA.......

I will just "hide and watch" and hope that all the $ I spent to recieve OTA DTV will not be all for nothing.

that is what the installer told me when I got my current dish :P He said it was too big and heavy for a roof mount. Dunno, I should know better than to listen to them.

Although possible to install a 5LNB dish on the roof, it is not a good idea, because of increased wind loading of the larger dish.

I agree on the wind load, etc. And with the way that installers put them up using only lag screws through the sheeting, not a good idea. Although, I have seen numerous 5LNB dishes oh the facia of a gable end roof or on the edge of the roof directly above the overhang, I can't imagine that being any stronger but I guess if there is a leak it won't do any damage to the interior of the house. (A personal thought is that there is nothing classier than pulling up to someone's house and the first thing you see is 2 satellite dishes installed directly over the garage door. That is why tried to hide mine on the back side of my roof.)

Also, installers don't want to walk on a roof with more than 6/12 pitch. - I don't blame them though. Plus the dish itself weight around 45 lbs and is cumbersome, that is a lot to lug around on a roof.

I installed the mount (including the extra support braces) for my big dish and reinforced the roof from below, and I did all the sealing. Then all the installer had to do was set the dish itself, which he was real cool about. I saved him a lot of time and work no matter where he would have mounted it.

I should have explained myself better.

eh, I will just wait it out until 10 and 27 get their towers up and see how it goes. Living in the city I just don't have the space for the larger dish in my yard, and it seems like the roof won't work too well in my situation b/c my house is facing south. I have a brick chimney I could anchor it to, but it is on the side of my house, so it kind of defeats the purpose.

Will Springfield HD on DirecTV mean the end of my DNS HD signals? I am grandfathered in as a former "white area" for reception, so I get the SD networks from both NY and LA as well as the Springfield networks, and NY HD.

I do not want to swap out my HD TiVo for the HR20 as long as its without OTA reception ability.

Not until you get a 5LNB dish and all MPEG4 HD equipment.

The H20 has OTA reception capability. I think you are confusing the H20 receiver with the HR20 DVR.

Not until you get a 5LNB dish and all MPEG4 HD equipment.

The H20 has OTA reception capability. I think you are confusing the H20 receiver with the HR20 DVR.

Yeah, I meant the HD DVR. Are they going to activate its OTA capability soon?

Check the HDTV recorder threads HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=42).

American Tower has a 10 year contract with KSPR, and they are not inclined to let them out of it without a substantial penalty. I think they will be installing their antenna at the 1665 ft AGL space, but on a schedule that has not been announced.

That means KOLR / KSFX will proceed with the HD antenna installation at 1485 feet. Tower climbers are scheduled for 1st or second week of November, weather permitting.

All studio equipment is on hand and installed in the racks. Wiring is being done on a daily basis.

Transmitter equipment, antenna and transmission line are all at the transmitter site or in a Springfield warehouse.

In summary, all the pieces of the puzzle are here. Things are proceeding on schedule. It looks like you will be able to see the Thanksgiving games on Fox and CBS in HDTV.

Even if that schedule slips due to weather or other unforseen factors, it is almost guaranteed that that new TV set you get for Christmas will get everything but ABC in HDTV.

Even with KYTV's money behind them KSPR would have a hard time getting equipment purchased and installed before next Spring.

rhoops, thanks for the excellent update information on kolr/ksfx. much appreciated.

yep is very good news!

Yeah at least progress is being made

Great news. I'm hoping that KOLR will be sending an HD feed to mediacom soon, too. Currently I can get ABC and NBC from them in HD already. Just waiting on CSI in HD to make it complete!

I just read about DirecTV adding Springfield to their local HD market by the end of the year.

In regards to KY3, does this mean we will be getting the crappy downgraded HD signal (because of 3-2 and 3-3) on our DirecTV, or will we be getting a real HD KY3? Because if we're going to get the crappy KY3, I'm just going to do the moving trick and get my feeds from New York.

Well, considering DirecTV's uplink is at 999 W. Sunshine (home of KY3), the odds are very decent that you'll see it come straight from the control room.

Are the Mediacom signal for KY3 just as bad?

I just read about DirecTV adding Springfield to their local HD market by the end of the year.

In regards to KY3, does this mean we will be getting the crappy downgraded HD signal (because of 3-2 and 3-3)...It *is* pretty crappy.

NBC-1080i football is unwatchable on KYTV-DT 3-1 because you can't do HDTV with 2 additional sub channels. They need to quit multicasting.

The tower crews will arrive on Monday, Oct 23, 2006.

There will be no immediate effect, since there are over 72 twenty-foot sections of transmission line to be hauled up the tower, attached and checked out.

The tower itself must be strengthened according to the tower manufacturers instructions.

We are still awaiting the arrival of the "RF System". This is a large collection of "RF Plumbing" that will go between the transmitters and the transmission line. It includes filterplexers, magic T's, reject loads, dummy loads and a combiner.

These items are in the "pipeline" and won't be needed before the antenna and transmission line are installed anyway.

The tower crew will work at their own pace and will probably be done by the middle of November.

When everything is in place the transmitter manufacturer's representative will come to town to commission the system and do a "proof of performance".

It's looking a bit "tight" for Thanksgiving, but we are very aware that many viewers will be pleased if we can get it done by then.

The studio equipment is in place and I may be able to watch CBS HD this evening. Of course I will be the only one in SW Missouri to be able to do that.

Thanks for the update rhoops. It is very much appreciated.

If I can ask, and you can answer, what is the timeline for CBS HD on mediacom?

I don't have any information on what Mediacom plans to do. They currently use QAM for KYTV and KSPR, which I believe is of lesser quality than OTA HDTV.

Mediacom has a fiber backhaul from our studio to their headend.

I am puzzled that KOZK has had OTA HD for a long time and Mediacom doesn't carry either the HDTV 21-2 or "Create" 21-3.

Thanks for the update rhoops. It is very much appreciated.

If I can ask, and you can answer, what is the timeline for CBS HD on mediacom?

Thanks for all the info rhoops. Very informative.

KOZK-DT 21-2 picture quality is not very good. They're taking PBS 1080i and rescaling it to 720p. Then, they attempt to broadcast a 720p channel along with two 480i sub channels. Too many format conversions and not enough bandwidth gives picture quality similar to KYTV-DT's 3-1. Not very good.

I also get PBS-HD from KAFT-DT in Fayetteville, AR. When they do HD, they turn off all multicasting. The A/B comparison of KAFT-DT and KOZK-DT is *very* *very* noticeable. KAFT-DT looks like HD. KOZK-DT does not.

... I may be able to watch CBS HD this evening. Of course I will be the only one in SW Missouri to be able to do that.You will be the only one watching it from KOLR. But there are DirecTV and Dish Network subs in the area who got tired of waiting for local OTA HD. They have "moved" their service address to get CBS and other HD channels from other markets. So although the numbers are small, there are others in the area who are already watching CBS-HD.

Just read that a judge has issued a ruling requiring DishNetwork to drop distant networks December 1. Which just further emphasizes that local broadcasters and the FCC and our "elected" officials don't really have a clue about serving the best interests of the public. If this DNS ruling is later applied to DirecTV, then strangely enough, the only satellite service offering distant networks in the U.S. will be a Canadian service.

I guess if the 10/27 upgrade stays on schedule the only thing we'll miss will be ABC HD.

we are more or less missing ABC SD right now as I live in springfield and cant even pick up 33.

This sucks. I wanna see the Cards win the series in HD. I wanna see the huge Alber Pujols cold sore that people are talking about. It's just not fair. I spent all this money for my tv and what do I get. The Office, My Name is Earl, and Friday Night Lights in some kind of HD format. Hopefully we will get to see the Super Bowl in HD. Do you guys think that is a possibility?

Has anybody gotten a firm date for HD locals on D*? I wonder if we will get the newer slimline dish or the bigger AT9?

The slimline isn't out yet.

The slimline isn't out yet.

The slimline is starting to appear.

Here be a Slimline Install with a Picture...... (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=684113#post684113)

Like I said, I wonder if we will be getting the slimline dish here by the time the Springfield HD locals are available?

Let me rephrase that....
I talked to a satellite dealer last week, here in Eureka. He is familiar w/ the slimline, but it is not available in Carroll County yet.

By the time all the Spgfld locals get on the air with HD, well - maybe... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon7.gif

BTW, Arkie,

K23DU in Harrison is being forced off of channel 23. They have an application to move to channel 36. FCC link HERE (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101153279&formid=346&fac_num=11133).

Not sure when they will be moving, but Mr. Oneil has completed his station channel change in Eureka Springs, so hopefully, it won't be too long before you will be able to get KOZK-DT OTA in Harrison without any problem.

anybody know the timetable for Dish switching over to Mpeg-4 stuff? I was considering switching over and getting an HD DVR, but if the switch is imminent then I can wait :) Also, really too bad the HD for Fox wasn't up in time for the WS b/c the highlights on ESPN HD look great :)

once again, no Rams this weekend due to some rule KSFX says that a station can only carry one game a week or some garbage. They are probably just too cheap to pay for two. I am tired of this. I don't remember this being a problem in years past.

once again, no Rams this weekend due to some rule KSFX says that a station can only carry one game a week or some garbage. They are probably just too cheap to pay for two. I am tired of this. I don't remember this being a problem in years past.It's a CBS double header week, this week. Fox affiliates can only carry one game. Doubleheader rights rotate between Fox and CBS and it's been that way for a while.

that is locally I take it? b/c Fox was advertising all through the WS that he Rams/Chargers game would be the main late game. Or, do they have to chose b/t the two?

When KOLR finally gets their equipment up on the tower, are they going to boost their power?

Spent a nice afternoon putting a new amplifier on my Springfield antenna and tweaked the aiming a little. Now I can receive KSFX-DT at about a 40-50% level. Not bad for their power level and my distance of 42 miles from the tower. The signal level for KOLR-DT is about the same, but drops to zero occasionally so it won't scan in. I guess it's a combination of slightly less power, lower antenna height, and higher frequency.

that is locally I take it? No, the rule is applied nationwide. If you check the coverage map topic in the HDTV Programming section, you can see which areas get which games on Sundays. Stations have some input, but the NFL usually decides what you see. Stations generally prefer the earlier game so their lucrative local newscasts run on time.

ok thanks DrDon. It would be beneficial for a better explanation from the actual tv station, b/c I know there are always a ton of people pissed that write or call the station when this kind of thing happens.

ok thanks DrDon. It would be beneficial for a better explanation from the actual tv station, b/c I know there are always a ton of people pissed that write or call the station when this kind of thing happens. When I lived there, I recall one of the stations running a crawl apologizing for the game they were showing saying the decision was the NFL's. They do that here, too, when they have to bail on a really good early game to switch to the Lions game for the kickoff (which is another NFL rule).

Back then - which was before Sunday Ticket - I cobbled together some C-band gear so my wife and I could watch the backhauls of the games we really wanted to see. Your best bet would be to consider Sunday Ticket. Rather expensive, but then you can watch whatever game you want and not what the NFL says you have to watch.

Doc

all that I saw Sunday was a 10 second bar at the bottom of the screen saying they werent showing the Rams game b/c of rules. That was it afaik. And I watch KSFX pretty regularly. Sunday ticket isn't really worth it for the times I need it 2 or 3 times a year. Just have to deal with it I guess. Thats the only bad thing about being in a dual market I guess :)

IIRC, Sunday Ticket is available on a pay-per-day basis. FYI.

When KOLR finally gets their equipment up on the tower, are they going to boost their power?

Yes, both KOLR and KSFX will be full legal power on DT. They will use the same antenna, which will be at 1585 feet on the tower. When Analog TV goes dark, probably in Feb 2009, KOLR-10 will revert to Channel 10 and then use the antenna at the top of the 2000 foot stick.

The added 400 feet will only extend the line of sight signal radius about 5 or 6 miles more, but channel 10, should carry better than channel 52.

There was no tower work done Thursday and Friday due to the rain. This is a major construction project and will not be completed for 2 weeks or so.

Yes, both KOLR and KSFX will be full legal power on DT. They will use the same antenna, which will be at 1585 feet on the tower. Whan Analog TV goes dark, probably in Feb 2009, KOLR-10 will revert to Channel 10 and then use the antenna at the top of the 2000 foot stick.

The added 400 feet will only extend the line of sight signal radius about 5 or 6 miles more, but channel 10, should carry better than channel 52.

There was no tower work done Thursday and Friday due to the rain. This is a major construction project and will not be completed for 2 weeks or so.

Thanks for keeping us up to date on the progress. This will surely make alot of people happy when we have full power HD.

My question is, can they do channel 52 and channel 28 on they same antenna?I hope 10 or 27 is not going to be a sub channel from the other.

Thanks for keeping us up to date on the progress. This will surely make alot of people happy when we have full power HD.

My question is, can they do channel 52 and channel 28 on they same antenna?I hope 10 or 27 is not going to be a sub channel from the other.

Yes Indeed, they will have channel 28 and channel 52 transmitters feeding a combiner and then up the transmission line and into a specially made antenna which radiates both channels.

I haven't heard of any plans to use sub-channels.

Yes Indeed, they will have channel 28 and channel 52 transmitters feeding a combiner and then up the transmission line and into a specially made antenna which radiates both channels.

I haven't heard of any plans to use sub-channels.

Good news, thanks again, keep us up to date.

For those interested, Dish has a plan in place for Springfield users now that has OTA antennas with installs at discounted prices. Read this link for more info...

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=80797

Basically this means they are a long ways from providing HD LIL to Springfield over satellite.

The prices didn't look very discounted, either.

The prices didn't look very discounted, either.

Get a quote from a local installer to put up an antenna, it generally isn't exactly cheap.

Any suggestions for towns to move to from Joplin? I live in Lamar, and that does not seem to work. :

that is locally I take it? b/c Fox was advertising all through the WS that he Rams/Chargers game would be the main late game. Or, do they have to chose b/t the two?
I called Fox27 to ask about the rams game not showing. I nice lady returned my message and helped to explain the situation. She said that before the season starts, they (27) are required by the NFL to select teams in our area in order of popularity. She says they chose the Chiefs, Rams, then the Cowboys. So as DrDon explained, we only get the chiefs game. I also called the NFL office to ask why they schedule these games in such a fashion, but so far I have only talked to the operator and some mailboxes.

Usually, this only happens 1 time per season. So far its happened 3 times this season. I've shelled out the $40 bucks at my parents house for the 3 games via single day of Sunday Ticket. Next year I will be a Sunday Ticket holder.

so does this happen in New York too? I understand they really have no choice. Still annoying that I have to pay for something that other people in the country that could care less for the Rams get to watch for free. Oh well :)

Any suggestions for towns to move to from Joplin? I live in Lamar, and that does not seem to work. :
"Move" yourself and your dish to:
101 Spring St (add an apartment #),
Eureka Springs, 72632
(US Post Office)

Don't change your billing address.

Prequalify the address HERE (http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com)

Just wondering how the tower work is going for 10 and 27? Weather hasn't been very good lately.

Just wondering how the tower work is going for 10 and 27? Weather hasn't been very good lately.

The rain slows things down considerably, but the tower climbers don't take weekends off if the weather is good.

Thursday night we are planning on installing the new STL (Studio to Tranmitter Link) microwave. Currently the STL is the same one we've used for since 1973. Of course it is analog only.

The new STL's are Microwave Radio Corp's "Twinstream" units. They pass an analog channel and the full 19,200 kbps digital stream to the ATSC transmitter.

All of the encoding and processing is done at the studio, and the signal that is fed to the STL will go directly into the ATSC transmitter.

When the STL's are installed the studio portion of the project will be complete.

It's amazing what a little extra height and a rotor will do for reception.

I played around this weekend to see what I could get. I gained KMOS-DT from Sedalia/Warrensburg and KOMU-DT from Columbia. It's great to get them, but they didn't add anything in the way of content to what I was already receiving.

I also now get KOLR-DT as a weak but steady signal. I was hoping to pick up KRCG from Jefferson City for CBS HD, but it just hasn't happened so I guess I'll just have to wait for 10.

Trying to scan additional channels has been interesting. For instance I can get KRCG analog 13 with a good quality, yet I can't seem to latch onto their digital 12 signal. KMOS DT (15) comes in great, but their analog (6) doesn't. Last night KAIT analog (8) came in so strong I had a nearly perfect picture with my antenna pointing the wrong way. I even got a weak, unscannable signal on their DT (9). I swung the antenna around, got a perfect picture on 8, but never could get a signal lock on 9. I mention these examples as from what I can find, their DT signals are now at full power and maps show their coverage area for the DT signal to be comparable to the analog signals.