The rain slows things down considerably, but the tower climbers don't take weekends off if the weather is good.

Thursday night we are planning on installing the new STL (Studio to Tranmitter Link) microwave. Currently the STL is the same one we've used for since 1973. Of course it is analog only.

The new STL's are Microwave Radio Corp's "Twinstream" units. They pass an analog channel and the full 19,200 kbps digital stream to the ATSC transmitter.

All of the encoding and processing is done at the studio, and the signal that is fed to the STL will go directly into the ATSC transmitter.

When the STL's are installed the studio portion of the project will be complete.

I'm assuming you're going to be installing one for each KSFX and KOLR? If so does this mean we'd be able to see the HD content on the low-power transmitters you already have in place, or are they going to be shut down?

Yes, one STL for each station. The low power transmitters will remain SD until the full power transmitters replace them.

I'm assuming you're going to be installing one for each KSFX and KOLR? If so does this mean we'd be able to see the HD content on the low-power transmitters you already have in place, or are they going to be shut down?

Mediacom is eager to carry both stations in HD and we have the equipment in place to provide them what what they need. Cable HD will almost certainly happen before OTA HD. It will be December before the OTA transmitters are live.

If you have basic cable and QAM capability on your set top box or receiver, you don't need a special subscription to get HD on the local broadcast stations. KYTV and KSPR are on "cable 16" currently. They are not scrambled or using "conditional access". I use a Samsung SIR-T451 set top box.

If you order basic cable and they run the wiring, subscribe for awhile, but cancel later, does QAM still come in on the wire?

Subscribe to basic cable and then cancel it? They disconnect it at the pole.

No special subscription needed for the local HD stations. If you get basic cable you get HD locals in the clear.

If you order basic cable and they run the wiring, subscribe
for awhile, but cancel later, does QAM still come in on the wire?

If you order basic cable and they run the wiring, subscribe for awhile, but cancel later, does QAM still come in on the wire?If you cancel, you get nothing on the cable because they shut it off.

rhoops, thanks for the continuing updates on the progress at kolr/ksfx.

Also this begs the next question: How long until DirecTv customers get the DT feeds? We know DirecTV plans to add Springfield HD locals shortly.

sneaky snooper,
In addition to building the uplinks to DirecTV, D* customers will also need an MPEG4 capable HD receiver and dish. For new customers, all of that is free. For existing customers, it is *often* free if you call D* customer retention and threaten to switch to cable or E*.

Once the HD locals are available, a 2nd dish for locals will no longer be needed, if all of your receivers are MPEG4.

A Second dish will still be needed if you want Channel 15 or 31. They will not be in HD on D*

that's a big IF...

Actually I hear that 15, 21, and 31 will be put on the MPEG4 bird since the lease on 72.5 runs out in a year or so.

Mediacom is eager to carry both stations in HD and we have the equipment in place to provide them what what they need. Cable HD will almost certainly happen before OTA HD. It will be December before the OTA transmitters are live.

If you have basic cable and QAM capability on your set top box or receiver, you don't need a special subscription to get HD on the local broadcast stations. KYTV and KSPR are on "cable 16" currently. They are not scrambled or using "conditional access". I use a Samsung SIR-T451 set top box.


Anyword on DirecTV linkup? They are saying Dec 1 for HD Locals.

They installed the new STL's (Studio Transmitter Link) last night.

The tower installers have completed installation of the vertical portion of the transmission line. Antenna installation and completing the ends of the transmission line remains to be done.

We are still awaiting the arrival of a vital part of the RF plumbing that will combine the two transmitters.

The HD satellite receivers for both Fox and CBS and the encoding equipment are installed, but still need setup and final commissioning.

Mediacom HD will probably be activated before over the air HD.

When all the work is completed the transmitter manufacturer's tech rep has to come to town to put them on the air.

I expect to be on Mediacom by Thanksgiving and to commission OTA by the second week of December.

rhoops,
THANKS.

i assume they will be broadcasting in 1080i?

and if so

will it look at the ass that KY3 puts up becuase of multicasting?

CBS 1080i
FOX 720p

rhoops previously stated that neither station will be multicasting. So Springfield will finally get to see what real HDTV looks like.
And it looks a helluvalot better than the pixelly crap on 3-1 and 21-2.

I'm an E* subscriber and live in Lebanon, MO. I have an HD TV. I've been following this forum for some time now but often get lost in the jargon. What is the best way for me to get HD, including locals? Thanks.

I'm an E* subscriber and live in Lebanon, MO. I have an HD TV. I've been following this forum for some time now but often get lost in the jargon. What is the best way for me to get HD, including locals? Thanks.

Put up an outdoor UHF antenna and point it toward Springfield. If your HDTV doesn't have an ATSC (HDTV) tuner, buy a set top tuner like the Samsung SIR-T451. Of course some satellite providers even have an OTA tuner in their box, like the DishNetwork's VIP series. My understanding is that Dish is going to convert their whole system to MPEG-4 over the next few years, and the VIP series receivers use MPEG-4.

Even when they offer "HD", both satellite and cable distributors rely on compression to reduce the bandwidth required. It just doesn't get any better than what the broadcaster transmits over the air. When satellite providers offer HD, they start by picking up the OTA signal, then run it over a fiber backhaul, compress it digitally, typically with MPEG-4, and then distribute it via their satellite system.

Locally, the "pickup point" for satellite providers is at the KYTV studios. KYTV and UPN are fed directly into the fiber backhaul, but all other stations are received off the air. I don't think this will change when they provide HD locals.

As far as antennas go, there is no substitute for antenna height. A giant antenna at rooftop level won't work better than a small antenna 30 or 40 feet up.
Radio Shack sells a good UHF only antenna for less than $25.

Wolf321,
It depends on what HD channels you want. For local digital channels, OTA (Over-The-Air) will almost always give you the best picture quality. You just need an HDTV (with an integrated digital tuner) and an antenna suitable for your address.

Enter your complete address here (http://www.antennaweb.org/) for a rough idea of what kind of antenna you may need.

You are well within the OTA reception range of the Springfield digitals.
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT594131.gif

If you get a UHF antenna, make sure it will also pick up VHF chs 7 thru 13, since KOLR-DT (ch 52) will be moving back to VHF channel 10 in a couple of years. The Channel Master CM 4228 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm) is one such antenna that meets FCC planning factors for DTV reception (see "Pro Performance" at the bottom of this article (http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/On-RF/2006.01.25-f_doug.shtml).

It has a large screen on the back of it that just happens to work as a great bi-directional VHF antenna.
http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.jpg

I'm an E* subscriber and live in Lebanon, MO. I have an HD TV. I've been following this forum for some time now but often get lost in the jargon. What is the best way for me to get HD, including locals? Thanks.


DirecTV also has recievers with OTA tuner and plans to carry HD locals before the end of the year, allowing you to recieve most local HD content without an antenna. They have some pretty good deals for new subs.

Arxaw, do you know anything about this antenna compared to the 4228?

Antenna's Direct Long Range Model (http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB8_HD_Antenna.html)

The DB8 doesn't test out too well for chs 7 thru 13. IIRC, it's due to the fact that the "screen" isn't all one piece.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
Scroll down to the very last chart on that page.

Get a CM 4228 (http://warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm) if you want both highband VHF and UHF performance.

Wolf321 - Since you're in Lebanon you should also be able to pick up some non-Springfield HD stations. Most notable is KMOS, PBS from Sedalia (RF ch. 15). They only have one subchannel and I am quite happy with the picture quality. You're also on the edge of coverage for KRCG, CBS from Jefferson City (RF channel 12). KOMU, NBC from Columbia is a possibility as I receive it here and I'm further away. The secret is, of course, antenna height as previously mentioned. When 10 and 27 get up to full power the only missing network in HD will be ABC in our area. With a good antenna and rotor you should be able to get 7 OTA HD channels where you are (counting 10 & 27 after sometime in December). If you just want a single stationary antenna you would still be able to get the Springfield digital channels.

Arkie- On another forum several members are very happy with the Antennas Direct 91xg, even on high VHF channels. One member compared the CM 4228 to the 91xg and the 91xg pulled in more stations than the 4228. They had very good luck with it as far down as Ch. 7. The 91xg is more directional and might require a rotor where as the 4228 might not.

... The 91xg is more directional and might require a rotor where as the 4228 might not.Arkie, techpuppy is correct about the directionality. I am able to get both Springfield and FAY/FSM digital stations w/ the 4228 without turning the rotor. This was not possible with the yagi antennas I tried, which required more precise aiming. The 91xg does have a bit more gain than the 4228 does for highband VHF, but the 4228 beats it in net gain (see net gain chart (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html)) for channels 20 thru 50, and aiming is less critical with the 4228.

As always, YMMV.

I don't have any problem getting highband VHF chs 9 & 13 from Fayetteville, or ch 10 from Springfield. Even lowband VHF ch 3 from Springfield, which is slightly snowy, is still watchable. But I rarely watch KY3 analog or digital, because NBC-HD on KNWA-DT looks so much sharper than KYTV-DT 1080i.

Things are getting exciting. Can't wait to see a nice 1080i picture again, since dish is doing HD lite now you forget what a good picture looks like.

Hope KY3 will get KSPR up and running in HD soon after the purchase is approved. I believe they will.

I hope they move 3-2 to 33-2.

thanks for the replies. I already have the xg91 and it is very directional. I have a hard time getting a signal from channel 9 from Fayetteville. In fact, I have to turn the antenna backwards to obtain a watchable signal.

Anything UHF comes in exceptionally well...............

So Springfield Mediacom will have Fox HD and CBS HD available before Thanksgiving? I thought you said that you didn't know about Mediacom. How do you know that they are planning to do this all of a sudden?

If so, that is going to be awesome! All 4 big local stations in HD! I can finally watch 24 and Prison Break in HD!

So Springfield Mediacom will have Fox HD and CBS HD available before Thanksgiving? I thought you said that you didn't know about Mediacom. How do you know that they are planning to do this all of a sudden?

If so, that is going to be awesome! All 4 big local stations in HD! I can finally watch 24 and Prison Break in HD!

I didn't know. I asked a question and got an answer. Now I know that Mediacom is eager to pick up our HD signal and we are ready to provide it. The Thanksgiving date is a guess. I hear there are some people who like to watch football on Thanksgiving.

I didn't know. I asked a question and got an answer. Now I know that Mediacom is eager to pick up our HD signal and we are ready to provide it. The Thanksgiving date is a guess. I hear there are some people who like to watch football on Thanksgiving.

Indeed there are. I would guess that they would want the stations up by then too. They would get great ratings. When is the absolute earliest they could possibly be up? When is the approximate date you guys will be able to provide it? End of this week?

Thanks for your inside info!

thanks for the replies. I already have the xg91 and it is very directional. I have a hard time getting a signal from channel 9 from Fayetteville. In fact, I have to turn the antenna backwards to obtain a watchable signal.

Arkie,
Long story short. The 4228 would probably suit you better than what you have, and better than the DB8, because it would require less finagling of the rotor, and it works great for the VHF stations we have. And if you have a decent OTA tuner, you may be able to eliminate the rotor use completely. Since I got a D* H20-600 receiver w/ the LG chipset, I haven't had to use the rotor at all. I get both Springfield and Fayetteville at very high signal strengths for both cities by just aiming at Fayetteville.

You see a *lot* of 4228s in Carroll, Washington, Benton & Madison counties, probably because they work.

YMMV, of course.

I didn't know. I asked a question and got an answer. Now I know that Mediacom is eager to pick up our HD signal and we are ready to provide it. The Thanksgiving date is a guess. I hear there are some people who like to watch football on Thanksgiving.

Hello, I'm new to this forum but have been waiting for HD for a very long time! I spoke with a Mediacom rep last week and she assures me that if I switch to Mediacom from Dish, that ALL local channels will be available in HD. Our contract with Dish is up in Dec, we'll be switching then. We have a 67" Samsung and we can pick up KY3 fairly well. Not an ugly pic. Really glad to see this forum!

Has KY3 done something to their signal? It didnt look at pixelly as usual over the last few days?

Hey everyone I've been reading this thread for about a year now and would like to thank everyone for their insights. I just bought a new 37in LCD with QAM, I hooked it up to the regular cable here in Cabool and got the ABCHD on channel 93-1 and the NBCHD on channel 93-2. I get KY3 OTA but have to say the unscrambled feed looked much better for the ND game than the OTA looked. I can't wait for KOLR10 and KSFX to go HD.

...I get KY3 OTA but have to say [cable] looked much better for the ND game than the OTA looked.
That's because their OTA broadcast is severely bandwidth-starved from multicasting the CW on 3-2 and WeatherMinus on 3-3. You can't do decent 1080i HD OTA and multicast two additional sub channels.

Hey everyone I've been reading this thread for about a year now and would like to thank everyone for their insights. I just bought a new 37in LCD with QAM, I hooked it up to the regular cable here in Cabool and got the ABCHD on channel 93-1 and the NBCHD on channel 93-2. I get KY3 OTA but have to say the unscrambled feed looked much better for the ND game than the OTA looked. I can't wait for KOLR10 and KSFX to go HD.

I wonder how KY3 on Cable in Cabool could look better than they do over the air? How could the cable headend in Cabool pick up anything other than the OTA broacast signal? Mediacom has a fiber backhaul from the Springfield stations to their headend, but I'm pretty sure Cabool doesn't do that.

Is the ABCHD from KSPR? If so that is stranger still, because their OTA is SD and so weak I barely get it 10 blocks from their studio.

Or are these HD signals not KY3 and KSPR but from somewhere else?

I did not see the pixelation I see OTA. As far as the signals these were from KSPR and KY3 as I said these were QAM not OTA. The signal OTA down here stays around 50-60%, but so does PBS,and PBS looks alot better on 21-2 than KY3 does on 3-1. I wish I could get other signals but I have pretty much aimed my antenna in evey direction but only get KY3 and PBS.

Mediacom uses a fiber optic link to provide channels to Cabool and other towns in the area they serve. There are no more "local" headends for many towns.

I did not see the pixelation I see OTA. As far as the signals these were from KSPR and KY3 as I said these were QAM not OTA. The signal OTA down here stays around 50-60%, but so does PBS,and PBS looks alot better on 21-2 than KY3 does on 3-1. I wish I could get other signals but I have pretty much aimed my antenna in evey direction but only get KY3 and PBS.

Within a few weeks you will probably be able to receive KSFX and KOLR OTA. They should be up at full power and 720 P for KSFX and 1080i for KOLR.

I think Mediacom will pick up the backhaul before we get the HD transmitters on the air.

Anyone know if KSPR will be providing the same HD feed that Mediacam gets to DirecTV for their HD locals? Also, rhoops, do you know if 10 and 27 are still planning to use 5.1 for the audio on the HD signal? KY3 told me that several of the local cable companies can't decode the 5.1 properly so they don't transmit it with their signal it, I figured that was BS. Thanks for any info you might have.

Anyone know if KSPR will be providing the same HD feed that Mediacam gets to DirecTV for their HD locals? Also, rhoops, do you know if 10 and 27 are still planning to use 5.1 for the audio on the HD signal? KY3 told me that several of the local cable companies can't decode the 5.1 properly so they don't transmit it with their signal it, I figured that was BS. Thanks for any info you might have.

I've spent quite a bit of time the past week tracing the audio path and it's very confusing. At various points we have AC3 and Dolby digital, which are two different things. The ASI digital stream from the network receiver has audio embedded with the video and and it comes out a BNC connector and travels on a coax cable.

The ATSC broadcast signal is defined with 8 audio channels. Basically 5.1 with two additional channels. In our case it those two will be left total and right total.
We've got Left, Center, Right, Left Surround, Right Surround, and LFE (Bass).

I believe that Mediacom will get an ASI stream with embedded audio.

I'm still trying to figure out what the metadata has to do with audio. Obviously not everything is produced in 5.1 so there has to be a way for stations to switch modes depending on the program. That's where the metadata comes in.

Perhaps this will help you understand why I'm confused about audio issues:
===
Audio Metadata

In 2003, CBS began to transmit HD programs with 5.1 Surround Sound. Since then, it has been challenging to correctly identify and manually switch between stereo and 5.1 Surround modes. If a station forgot to switch from stereo to 5.1 Surround, then the 5.1 program would air with only left and right channels. The center channel, which contains ALL the dialogue, along with the Low Frequency Effects and rear surround channels would be excluded. Many stations, Owned & Operated included, experienced this problem.

To overcome this issue, CBS Engineering developed an automatic system to switch between stereo and 5.1 Surround. The technique involves tagging the audio / video content with metadata that remains “stuck to the audio and video” in the HD vertical blanking interval. CBS now uses this system to mark ALL of our HD content including upconverted standard definition programming, with this automatic switching signal. Stations no longer have the burden themselves with switching at the proper time; they can rely upon this system to do the switching. We have rolled out this equipment at all of the Owned and Operated stations with very good results.

The practice of manually switching between stereo or 5.1 for the entire show means that the advertiser’s commercials in the middle of the show are not airing correctly. For example, if a stereo program has an HD 5.1 Surround sound commercial in the body of the show, and the station has switched to stereo for the full program, then the commercial is aired with no center channel dialogue. This has become a major concern with the advertisers.

Some stations are bridging the audio metadata from the network receiver to the location station’s Dolby AC-3 encoder. While this method works most of the time, it is not recommended because it can lead to on-air irregularities if the program is prerecorded and played back at a later date.

Anyone know if KSPR will be providing the same HD feed that Mediacom gets to DirecTV for their HD locals?

I doubt it. The pickup point for both Dish and Direct TV is at the KYTV studio. Other than what they generate in the building what the satellite providers get is derived from off air signals.

rhoops, thanks for the info. As a person with an OTA receiver since 02 I' m glad to see we're finally getting the HD that we all crave!

At various points we have AC3 and Dolby digital, which are two different things.
Dolby Digital is AC-3. See Dolby (http://www.dolby.com/professional/pro_audio_engineering/solutions_digitaltv.html) for lots of whitepapers on audio for DTV. Are you sure you're not thinking of AC-3 vs. Dolby E (8 channel audio compressed to be carried over a single AES channel pair)? CBS is apparently using Dolby E for audio distibution to its affiliates. What does Fox do?

The ATSC broadcast signal is defined with 8 audio channels. Basically 5.1 with two additional channels. In our case it those two will be left total and right total.
You might be getting 8 audio channels out of your network IRD, but AC-3 can only encode up to 5.1 channels at a time. You can broadcast as many audio channels as you have bits for (not limited at any number as far as I know) by using multiple AC-3 bitstreams. For instance, you might have a 3/2/1 bitstream (aka 5.1 surround) for main program audio along with a 2/0 bitstream (plain stereo or Lt/Rt) for SAP.

The audio bitstreams don't have to be associated with a video service either... early on OPT carried KSMU as an audio-only service in the digital multiplex.

Unfortunately, there apparently aren't many consumer STB/tuners that are multi-audio friendly. They usually let you select between available audio streams, but do stupid things like hard-code the 2nd audio stream as 'Spanish' (it might actually be DVI, or another language), etc. A lot of cable boxes are supposedly problematic in this area too.

I live in Lebanon and I am not a huge budget, but I would like to enjoy as many OTA HD channels as I can. I am aware that HD will soon be available for KOLR and KSFX, but what can I do in the mean time. When these channels become available will rabbit ears be sufficient or should I consider the roof mount? In the mean time what are some cost effective antennas or other accesories that I may try? Thanks for your help

If you can receive 3 and 21 HD channels now using rabbit ears, then 10 and 27 will come in as well as soon as they get up to full power.

The problem with rabbit ears is that they are more sensitive to placement and movement in your house. Your signal will be much weaker than by using an outdoor antenna, but might be acceptable. It's hard to predict the performance of an indoor antenna.

An outdoor antenna would be best and they're not too expensive in relation to HDTV in general. There are some great antenna recommendations if you read through some previous posts. If you decide to buy an outside antenna it's best to stick to a good brand such as Winegard or Antennas Direct etc.

With a good outdoor antenna and rotor in Lebanon you could get the Springfield stations plus KMOS (PBS) from Sedalia and possibly KOMU (NBC) from Columbia. The Sedalia and Columbia stations wouldn't add much in the way of programming so they may not be worth it for you.

I live in Lebanon and I am not a huge budget, but I would like to enjoy as many OTA HD channels as I can. I am aware that HD will soon be available for KOLR and KSFX, but what can I do in the mean time. When these channels become available will rabbit ears be sufficient or should I consider the roof mount? In the mean time what are some cost effective antennas or other accesories that I may try? Thanks for your help

Radio Shack sells a $25 UHF only antenna. Model U-75R, Cat # 15-2160. Get a 10 foot mast section, a roof or chimney mount, and some RG-6 coaxial cable. It will work just fine. Everything you need should run less than $50.

Since all the Springfield stations transmit from sites about 20 miles east of Springfield, you are closer than you might think. KYTV and KOZK are near Fordland, Due East of Sunshine, but KSPR, KOLR and KSFX are on a tower that is due East of Division Street.

what is a rotor and what does it do? i have read the speculation concerning the date of full power hd from ksfx and kolr, but am still confused. when do you suspect it will be up for OTA and not mediacom and then when do you expect it for dish network?

what is a rotor and what does it do? i have read the speculation concerning the date of full power hd from ksfx and kolr, but am still confused. when do you suspect it will be up for OTA and not mediacom and then when do you expect it for dish network?

A rotor or antenna rotator is a motor that turns your antenna to point in different directions. It's probably not worth the trouble and expense for you. You could use the "strongarm method" (manually rotating the mast and antenna) to see if there are signals in other directions you can pick up.

I expect full power HD from KOLR / KFSX around December 10th. Mediacom could happen before them since they have a fiber backhaul from the studios.

As far as I know the only way that the satellite providers could get a signal is from an OTA receiver, so there is no way they can be up before the OTA transmitters.

Hmm. Spoke to Mediacom again last week and now they're saying that just NBC and ABC are currently in HD. We were going to go with that, but found out there is no NFL Network in their packages. So we'll stick with Dish and keep praying, I guess :)

DirecTV will have Springfield HD locals on satellite (http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/10/10/directv-adds-hd-locals-in-25-markets/) before Dish network, but as rhoops said, they have to get on the air first.

If you want to stay with Dish, just get an antenna. It's usually your best source for HD, picture quality wise.

what is a rotor and what does it do?A rotor is a motor on the antenna mast that turns the antenna for you, with a control in your house, to get stations in different directions.
http://tinypic.com/2vmg0i9.jpg

BTW, Arkie,

K23DU in Harrison is being forced off of channel 23. They have an application to move to channel 36. FCC link HERE (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101153279&formid=346&fac_num=11133).

Not sure when they will be moving, but Mr. Oneil has completed his station channel change in Eureka Springs, so hopefully, it won't be too long before you will be able to get KOZK-DT OTA in Harrison without any problem.


For the first time I can now get KOZK DT here. It has gone from nothing to a signal of 95+ I guess the move of K23DU has been made.

Can you get analog 23 or 36 (K23DU)?
If it's now on 36, they've moved. If they're still on 23, they haven't moved.
If it isn't on either one, the station is probably just off the air.

Before K18EG (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=11137) here in Eureka Springs moved from ch 18 to 22, they used to go off the air occasionally. That was the only time I could ever get KFSM-DT (RF 18) out of Ft. Smith. Now, it comes in at 100%.

K23DU station info HERE (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=11133).

Well I can't tune my QAM HD channels off of mediacom tonight. Looks like I'll miss "the nine." Hopefully this is not working because they are adding CBS and Fox HD...

Hello, hope someone can help me out. I live on Table rock lake and have Dish, since I won't be getting hd locals for a while can someone tell me if I could get a signal for ota for hd. The problem is a big hill between me and the towers. What do some of you recommend. I'm right down by the water and the hill is pretty high. Do you need a direct line of sight to Springfield towers? Does Fay. Ark have hd and is it to far to pick up? Thanks for the help

Hello, hope someone can help me out. I live on Table rock lake and have Dish, since I won't be getting hd locals for a while can someone tell me if I could get a signal for ota for hd. The problem is a big hill between me and the towers. What do some of you recommend. I'm right down by the water and the hill is pretty high. Do you need a direct line of sight to Springfield towers? Does Fay. Ark have hd and is it to far to pick up? Thanks for the help

The best practical test is whether you can receive the UHF analog stations, KSPR, KOZK and KSFX. Try a small UHF antenna on your rooftop. If you get Something on it, then you can probably get a clear signal with a little more height.

The best practical test is whether you can receive the UHF analog stations, KSPR, KOZK and KSFX. Try a small UHF antenna on your rooftop. If you get Something on it, then you can probably get a clear signal with a little more height.Thanks for the help, I guess I'll just have to try. Do they make a meter that would show signal strength? That might be a little easier. Thanks

Is this the right section to discuss Lake of the Ozarks? I may move there and I am very anxious to know:
1) If they have Direct tv
2) Have local HD

Thanks!

vette41, what's your zip code?

Fayetteville/Rogers has HD channels OTA, and KNWA, the Rogers, Ark. NBC affiliate's tower is very near the MO border (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1006433.html). I live near the South end of Table Rock Lake and get both Fayetteville/Rogers and Springfield channels. But my house is not at water elevation. It is as high or higher than most of the surrounding hills.

Most DTVs and external tuners have some sort of signal strenth indicator in the setup menu.

Vette41,
I live on the lake with a few hills blocking me(I am near Kimberling City), but I am not right up against them. I am not sure what your terrain is, but I do get reception on all springfield channels using a large boom type vhf/uhf antenna with a booster. Channel 3 and 27 have always been the worst. Recently I added a HD tv with an ATSC tuner and a UHF antenna(channel master 4228, it was recommended Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8409616&&#post8409616) ) With that I get ch 3 digital and channel 51 from fayetteville which both are NBC, but 51 is a better picture.

You are going to have to go with a rooftop or tower mount if to get any chance of decent reception

Good Luck,
Bill

vette41, what's your zip code?

Fayetteville/Rogers has HD channels OTA, and KNWA, the [Rogers, Ark. NBC affiliate's tower is very near the MO border. I live near the South end of Table Rock Lake and get both Fayetteville/Rogers and Springfield channels. But my house is not at water elevation. It is as high or higher than most of the surrounding hills.

Most DTVs and external tuners have some sort of signal strenth indicator in the setup menu. My zip is 65686, I have a much better "view" towards Fay/Rogers direction than Springfield. I just wasn't sure if they had HD yet. Thanks for the help. Is NBC the only one they have in HD ? Bill3, I live on the side of the hill at Hunters Glen so you can see the problem I have. Thanks

If you're on a hillside facing NW Arkansas, you may be able to get some of the stations here. NBC would be the most likely (see map link in post 1062 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8972288&&#post8972288), above), followed by ABC and PBS. Least likely would be CBS and FOX-HD. Here's link to Fayetteville, AR ABC digital coverage map (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=TV260216.html). With altitude in one's favor, digital reception often goes beyond the area shown in the FCC predictive maps.

If you're on a hillside facing NW Arkansas, you may be able to get some of the stations here. NBC would be the most likely (see map link in , above), followed by ABC and PBS. Least likely would be CBS and FOX-HD. Here's link to Fayetteville, AR ABC digital coverage map[/url]. With altitude in one's favor, digital reception often goes beyond the area shown in the FCC predictive maps.I think I'll give it a shot, I'll order the 4228, cm7777. Does that sound like what might work best. Again thanks for the help

I think I'll give it a shot, I'll order the 4228, cm7777. Does that sound like what might work best...
That's the combo I and many others in this area are using. It works quite well for channels 7 thru 69. I ordered the antenna/preamp combo from warren electronics dot com.

Nationwide, very few stations are broadcasting digitally on channels 6 or lower, because digitals suffer from interference on those frequencies. There are no Springfield, Joplin or Fayetteville/Ft. Smith digital stations are on 2 thru 6, a.k.a. "lowband VHF".

Vette41,

We are practically neighbors. I live in Deer Park which is down the road that is on the left just before Joe Bald Market. I think there is a chance that you will be surprised at how good your reception is. You are welcome to come by and check out my setup.

Vette41,

We are practically neighbors. I live in Deer Park which is down the road that is on the left just before Joe Bald Market. I think there is a chance that you will be surprised at how good your reception is. You are welcome to come by and check out my setup.Hello Bill, I know who you are now. I had a Baja and you've been over to my old dock. I moved to the other side of the hill. :D Now I know your an expert you can climb up on my roof :D

Here is a picture of the KSFX / KOLR HD Racks. Even though we didn't get on cable for Thanksgiving, we got more work done configuring and de-buging the system. HD audio is a lot more confusing than the video.

In the picture, the 6 spoked display on the left side of the screens is a 5.1 plus 2 audio display.

Thanks for the info rhoops, how's the tower work coming along?

Hello Bill, I know who you are now. I had a Baja and you've been over to my old dock. I moved to the other side of the hill. :D Now I know your an expert you can climb up on my roof :D

Expert??? Maybe an expert at burning boat gas...not even very good at that though. I don't mind the roof climing as long as you don't have too much pitch and shakes - which you probably do :D

I will be happy to give you a hand if needed. I have a ton of coax and the ends with the tools.

Thanks for the info rhoops, how's the tower work coming along?

I haven't had a report in a week or so, but last I heard the vertical section of transmission line was done. I can't imagine there is much more to be done. The weather has been excellent for tower work.

are you still looking at going full power with OTA by the second week in December?

are you still looking at going full power with OTA by the second week in December?

It's hard to say as we get closer to my guessstimate of several weeks ago. I don't think we have a firm date for the transmitter manufacturer's factory rep to come to town. That will be the last piece of the puzzle.

[ Well, tell that factory rep to git his butt to town :-) ]

Thanks for keeping us informed on the KOLR/KSFX progress.

http://tinypic.com/4d3omz5.jpg

So is it a safe bet to go ahead and plan to have a party for the BCS Championship game? I am the only with HD and was hoping to be able to watch it and the Super Bowl in HD.

So is it a safe bet to go ahead and plan to have a party for the BCS Championship game? I am the only with HD and was hoping to be able to watch it and the Super Bowl in HD.

January 8th on Fox? I think so. Be sure to have plenty of snacks and alcohol. If we don't have HD just make them happy another way.

January 8th on Fox? I think so. Be sure to have plenty of snacks and alcohol. If we don't have HD just make them happy another way.


Come on rhoops, we need a more than an "I think so" for January 8th! :D

Do you think the manufacture's rep will take bribes to come to town sooner than later???

Seriously, thanks for all the info you have shared with us.

If you want to stay with Dish, just get an antenna. It's usually your best source for HD, picture quality wise.

I spoke with DirecTV a few minutes ago and she assured me that SPF locals are in HD with them. Any comments? I'm getting to the point that I'm very suspicious of these assurances of HD.

I spoke with DirecTV a few minutes ago and she assured me that SPF locals are in HD with them. Any comments? I'm getting to the point that I'm very suspicious of these assurances of HD.


DirecTv is supposed to be spot beaming HD LiL signals to SGF DMA in "early December". From what I have been told, they had expected to have them by now, but I would imagine their timetable is greatly influenced by that of KOLR/KSFX. Remember, KOLR/KSFX stated on their website earlier this year that they would be full power HD by September. DirecTv can't launch HD LiL with just one feed, KY3, they need at least two to justify this DMA.

I spoke with DirecTV a few minutes ago and she assured me that SPF locals are in HD with them. Any comments? I'm getting to the point that I'm very suspicious of these assurances of HD.

I can assure you that KSFX and KOLR are NOT available in HD on any satellite system at this time. When the OTA transmitters are up, the satellite providers can pick them up and re-transmit them. The receive site for Springfield area stations is at the KYTV studio. From there it goes by fiber to the satellite providers.

However I did learn that Mediacom has all their ducks in a row and they will be visiting the KOLR / KFSX studios this afternoon. I don't know whether it will take a few hours or a few days, we are very, very close. Mediacom has a fiber backhaul from the KOLR / KSFX studios to the Springfield headend.

Of course the freezing icy weather will not bode well for tower work this week. The antenna has not yet been installed. Current work is on "beefing up" the tower structure to support the additional load.

We can't summon the transmitter rep until we have all the pieces together.

For a current DirecTV subscriber with the HD package, what kind of changes will I need to make to receive the local HD channels when they become available? I've only been a DirecTV subscriber for a few months, so my equipment is fairly new (I signed up for DirecTV in July).

You need a DirecTV MPEG4 H20 HD receiver or an HR20 HD DVR.
You also must have the new 5LNB dish, which is slightly larger than the older single or 3LNB dishes. Unless you have one of the newest "slimline" 5LNB dishes, your 5LNB dish should look like this one:
http://tinypic.com/4bhmlty.jpg

The "slimline" 5LNB dish looks like this:
http://tinypic.com/440hs9w.jpg

Of course if you already have an HD receiver, you can get the locals as soon as they all get on the air (and probably faster than they get on the sats), by simply connecting an OTA antenna to the ANT-IN jack on your D* receiver, add the Springfield ZIP code to your local setup menu and do a scan for local channels. You can get KYTV-DT (NBC 1080i) and KOZK-DT (PBS 720p) right now, with an antenna.

Well, I currently have the H20 HD Receiver, so I'm all set there.

The dish I'm not so sure about. I didn't pay too much attention to that when the installer was there, but 5LNB does sound like a familiar term. I'll have to compare my dish to the pictures you posted when I get home. I do know that my HD dish is considerably larger than the other dish that I have (they installed 2 dishes... one for HD, and one for all other channels).

I do not currently have an OTA antenna. Those cost around $100 if I remember correctly, and I never saw the need for it. When HD local channels are available on the satellites, there will be no need for the OTA antenna, correct?

Edit: Yup, just checked. I have the 5LNB satellite dish.

actually you can get a really good OTA antenna for around $45. I am not sure what model I have but it is one that was recommended in this forum. 4228 or something like that :) Lucky you already have the 5LNB though :) wish I did :(

...(they installed 2 dishes... one for HD, and one for all other channels).

I do not currently have an OTA antenna. Those cost around $100 if I remember correctly, and I never saw the need for it. When HD local channels are available on the satellites, there will be no need for the OTA antenna, correct?
DirecTV down-rezzes 1080i HD from 1920x1080 to only 1220x1080. If you want full 1920x1080 resolution, you need to use OTA. If your TV can't resolve full 1920x1080, it's not an issue though.

An OTA antenna also comes in handy if D* goes down in a heavy rain storm or the uplink signal from Springfield to their operations center goes down. The Ka band frequencies used for HD locals are more prone to rain fade than the Ku band currently used for all other D* channels.

One of the best OTA antennas available (LINK (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm)) can be had for about 50 bucks, plus shipping. If you live closer than 40 mi or so from the towers, this smaller one (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm) should work just as well. About $25 plus shipping.

Ya, I have the 4228 in my attic on the eastern side of Springfield, and I am receiving almost a 100% signal from Ky3 and KOZK and around 75% from KOLR and KSFX atm. :)

I also get KYTV-DT and KOZK-DT at 100%, using the CM 4228 antenna and CM 7777 preamp. And I'm approximately 70 air miles from the transmitters.

Elevation helps :-)

Ya, I have the 4228 in my attic on the eastern side of Springfield, and I am receiving almost a 100% signal from Ky3 and KOZK and around 75% from KOLR and KSFX atm. :)

These antennas work inside the attic? So there's no need to mount it outside and run wires into the house? I might be able to go for that. =)

How easy are these to setup? The website says "Just mount and point". Is it simple to get it pointed in the right direction? Does it need to point in different directions for different channels?

I also live on the east side of Springfield, just barely outside of city limits... so I don't think range will be any problem for me. (The 4221 should work for me.)

The 4221 should be all you need.

Antennas work ok in some attics. But reception may be disappointing if you have:
1. Metal roof.
2. Foil radiant barrier roof decking.
3. Foil-backed insulation in the exterior walls.
4. Metal siding
5. HVAC equipmnet/ductwork in the attic.

To see what direction to point your antenna, enter your complete address at http://www.antennaweb.org
Then, click the "Street Map" button on the results page.

However I did learn that Mediacom has all their ducks in a row and they will be visiting the KOLR / KFSX studios this afternoon. I don't know whether it will take a few hours or a few days, we are very, very close. Mediacom has a fiber backhaul from the KOLR / KSFX studios to the Springfield headend.

rhoops, any more info on this? Just got the new Samsung DTB-H260F STB so I'm ready for QAM or OTA!

rhoops, any more info on this? Just got the new Samsung DTB-H260F STB so I'm ready for QAM or OTA!

Mediacom has been to the KOLR / KSFX studios and has installed their equipment. They are getting HD from both stations. I expect them to have them up at any time. I haven't seen anything actually on cable yet.

For you techies, they are taking a DVB-ASI feed with embedded audio from us, connecting it to what is labeled an IRD, but is being used as a decoder, and using Gigabit ethernet to connect it to their fiber backhaul.

Connect your STB to cable and try a scan. You might be one of the first people to pick it up.

Mediacom has been to the KOLR / KSFX studios and has installed their equipment. They are getting HD from both stations. I expect them to have them up at any time. I haven't seen anything actually on cable yet.

For you techies, they are taking a DVB-ASI feed with embedded audio from us, connecting it to what is labeled an IRD, but is being used as a decoder, and using Gigabit ethernet to connect it to their fiber backhaul.

Connect your STB to cable and try a scan. You might be one of the first people to pick it up.
Please tell us that the OTA audio will be 5.1.

Please tell us that the OTA audio will be 5.1.

The OTA audio will be 5.1 when CBS sends it that way. Some stuff is still in 2 channel stereo. When in local programming it will be 2 channel stereo.

I haven's seen much on Fox that is 5.1 yet, but they have that capability.

CBS plans to control our audio mode with metadata embeded in the data stream.

There are some instances where we may have 8 channels of audio. That 5.1 plus two aux's which can be defined various ways. It could left total and right total, or a second language, or descriptive audio (for visually impaired).

Connect your STB to cable and try a scan. You might be one of the first people to pick it up.

Nope, not yet as of 7PM today. Do you know what the channel numbers will be on Mediacom?

Hello--first post after a few days of heavy lurking. I hope this question is appropriate for this thread given I'm in the Springfield area. It's not as much about OTA stuff as it is about local service options. I just picked up a nice 50" HDTV last night and am interested in finding out what may be my best option for a service with good HD offerings. Currently we have basic + extended + starz on demand w/Mediacom (no HD receivers or anything). Are their HD offerings (not so much local--I can do an antenna for that) pretty good? Or am I better off going with something like Dish or DirectTV? Looking at Mediacom's HDTV listing doesn't leave me very inspired compared to something like Dish... unless the online listing isn't representing what they really have to offer. However, I get the impression that cable HD isn't half-baked, whereas satellite could be called that. I really don't care at all about sports stuff, so stuff like DirectTV NFT ticket or whatever it is has no draw to me.

I'd be interested in some opinions on what's best in this area for HDTV viewing. I'm fairly sure I'll get a good OTA antenna so I get the full strength deal with local stuff. Thanks for the input.

DirecTV will be adding Spgfld locals very soon. They recently announced this in a press release. At the latest, this should be sometime in the 1Q '07. That would give you a pretty decent backup source for network HD programming, if you have a problem w/ OTA.

Here are the HD offerings from:
E* (http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/programming/hdtv/hdtv_prog/)
D* (https://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/secondaryIndex.jsp?assetId=900035&DPSLogout=true&_requestid=316689)

E* (Echostar Dish Network) downrezzes some 1080i channels to something less than 1920x1080 - not sure of the exact resolution. D* (DirecTV) downrezzes all 1920x1080i channels to 1220x1080i. Neither service downrezzes 720p programming. If your display cannot resolve full 1920x1080i, you won't see any difference in PQ on D* or E* vs OTA. If it can, you will notice some difference on a big screen. OTA will nearly always give you the best PQ, and IMO, is the best way to watch network HDTV. It also eliminates potential problems that may happen with a middleman provider like cable or sat.

On cable, if you have a TV with a QAM digital cable tuner, you should be able to connect it directly to the cable without a box, and get all your local channels in HD, for the cost of expanded basic analog cable package. I have no idea if mediacom offers any other HD programming besides locals.

For OTA antenna choices, it depends on how far you are from the transmitters, terrain and stuff your house is constructed of. You may only need a simple indoor or attic antenna, or small outdoor antenna. If you want to try an indoor antenna, start simple and buy an antenna locally from a place that takes returns.

Thanks for the info. I may just start with an indoor antenna and see what happens. Thanks for the info about what E* was (I hadn't figured that one out yet from my reading... I had for the most part with D*). I have no QAM internally with my TV, so I'll be relying on a dish or cable set-top box. Also, my TV is a Samsung S5086W, so only 720p here. I guess it won't matter for my HD, then, whether I get OTA, satellite or cable. I'll continue to look around to figure out what HD programming options seem best between the satellite networks and Mediacom.

anybody with any luck on the new channels thru QAM??

These antennas work inside the attic? So there's no need to mount it outside and run wires into the house? I might be able to go for that. =)

How easy are these to setup? The website says "Just mount and point". Is it simple to get it pointed in the right direction? Does it need to point in different directions for different channels?

I also live on the east side of Springfield, just barely outside of city limits... so I don't think range will be any problem for me. (The 4221 should work for me.)

I have metal ductwork in my attic and I still have good receptions. I also have the antenna mounted on the west side of the attic shoot back across the entire length of the attic :) Being on the east side of town you should be ok unless you live in a hole. And yes, it is just a matter of point and shoot. Thing is already assembled so all you have to do is stick it up in the attic and hook it up. :) Now you may want to get a pole mount or something as it would be easier than the marrionette setup I have with mine hanging from the rafters....lol :)

I tried a scan at 7:30 last night and still nothing.

What do you guys mean running a scan. I have mediacoms DVR/HD tuner, but I'm not sure I know how to do the scan.

What do you guys mean running a scan. I have mediacoms DVR/HD tuner, but I'm not sure I know how to do the scan.

You don't need to do a scan if you have Mediacom's box. If you have basic cable and a QAM Tuner in your TV set or set top box, you scan to detect new channels.

Your electronic channel guide is automatically downloaded to your box.

Mediacom says KSFX HD is on their system in QAM as of Friday afternoon., but since they are still testing, the HD boxes won't know about it yet.

KOLR HD may be on intermittently for testing.

rhoops, thanks for all the updates.

Whenever y'all are working on the KSFX tower, is analog channel 27 power reduced?

Reason: I would like to know if you do - and when, so I can try and pick up KFTA-DT, south of Fayetteville, AR, also on RF channel 27. Currently, I can't get it because of interference from KSFX analog 27.

thanks

If you have a cableco-provided box, try unplugging it momentarily to reboot it.

rhoops, thanks for all the updates.

Whenever y'all are working on the KSFX tower, is analog channel 27 power reduced?



Depending on where the tower workers need to be, we might reduce power on 10, 27 or 33 which are all on the same tower. We try to do this only between midnight and 5 AM if we can.

There won't be any tower work or power reductions until the ice goes away.

Mediacom says KSFX HD is on their system in QAM as of Friday afternoon., but since they are still testing, the HD boxes won't know about it yet.

KOLR HD may be on intermittently for testing.

Has anyone been able to tune in KSFX HD yet? I've done a couple scans this afternoon, just finished one, and no luck. Any idea what channel it should come in on? I use a MYHD-130 card and tune in ABC, KY3 and KY3's crappy weather channel on D16 (virtual channels 1, 2 and 3 respectively.)

The Mediacom guy says we are on 62-13 and 62-14 for the time being. We will probably move to a lower channel eventually.

I'm looking at Mediacom channel 62 and find both Fox and CBS, but it's totally worthless at the moment. Very pixellated with any motion.

I'm sure they will work on it next week. At least we're one step closer, but for this weekend anyway, "no cigar".

702 and 708 for those with Mediacom cable box (Motorola). but still pixellated - or so my brother says.

He is a Mediacom subscriber whereas I am DirecTv with OTA. I guess I have to wait.

Depending on where the tower workers need to be, we might reduce power on 10, 27 or 33 which are all on the same tower. We try to do this only between midnight and 5 AM if we can.

There won't be any tower work or power reductions until the ice goes away.
Any idea how much work, and in turn time, is needed once the ice thaws before the tower will be ready? With the forecast looking like it does and the holidays approaching, is it possible that this might stretch into next year?

Any idea how much work, and in turn time, is needed once the ice thaws before the tower will be ready? With the forecast looking like it does and the holidays approaching, is it possible that this might stretch into next year?

Anything is possible, but I don't think weather will be a limiting factor. Hauling the antenna up is at most a one day job. The hard part was the vertical portion of the transmission line and that's been done for a while. Even with an entire week lost to weather, I think we'll have them on the air before Christmas.

rhoops,
Thanks.

That would be a nice Christmas present from KOLR and KSFX if they did.

They just need an extra elf or two and possibly Rudolph to help out.

When I do an autoscan, I don't even get a channel 62. :( If I add 62 manually, it still has nothing on it. By comparison when I add 16 manually, it adds all three sub channels automaticaly.

Could be that the MYHD-130 maps channels differently, I guess. I don't have a point of reference, as it's the only QAM tuner I have.

Is this RF channel 62, that they are using? I am hoping that I can't tune it in yet, because they are still having problems.

rhoops, don't supose you could ask your mediacom contact, if there is any difference in the way they are enabling CBS and FOX from the way they do NBC and ABC? I'd really appreciate it.

For the record I can tune the following channels. Some are encrypted, so the MY-HD can tell there is a channel there and adds it, but it's just black and no audio when I go to it. Others appear to be mediacom's version of on-demand. Various, really lowdef, movies that people in my neighborhood are watching. You can see them rewind, fast forward them, etc. And some of the people in my neighborhood apparently like adult entertainment :o

15-1 Encrypted
15-2 Encrypted
16-1 ABC HD
16-2 NBC HD
16-3 NBC weather junk
18-1 Encrypted
18-2 Encrypted
19-1 Encrypted
19-2 Encrypted
75-1 through 75-10 appears to be on-demand movies, some channels have movies
76-1 through 76-10 appears to be on-demand movies, some channels have movies
77-1 through 77-10 appears to be on-demand movies, some channels have movies
78-1 through 78-10 appears to be on-demand movies, some channels have movies
79-1 through 79-14 no AV on these channels
80-1 blank likely encrypted
81-1 through 81-14 no AV on these channels
82-1 through 82-14 no AV on these channels
83-1 through 83-14 no AV on these channels
84-1 through 84-30 no AV on these channels
85-1 through 85-9 no AV on these channels
86-1 through 86-2 no AV on these channels
89-1 no AV on these channels
90-1 through 90-13 no AV on these channels
96-1 through 96-14 no AV on these channels
98-1 through 98-14 no AV on these channels
99-1 through 99-12 no AV on these channels

When I do an autoscan, I don't even get a channel 62. :( If I add 62 manually, it still has nothing on it. By comparison when I add 16 manually, it adds all three sub channels automaticaly.

Could be that the MYHD-130 maps channels differently, I guess. I don't have a point of reference, as it's the only QAM tuner I have.

Is this RF channel 62, that they are using? I am hoping that I can't tune it in yet, because they are still having problems.

rhoops, don't supose you could ask your mediacom contact, if there is any difference in the way they are enabling CBS and FOX from the way they do NBC and ABC? I'd really appreciate it.



Yes, it is Cable RF channel 62. It came up as 62-1 and 62-2 on my Samsung SIR-T451 Friday evening.

You won't get anything watchable right now. There is some incompatability in equipment or configuration. Nothing will be fixed during the weekend.

I see that on my Motorola (SD) cable box (at home) that KSFX is mapped to Channel 702. That seems to match the numbering on other stations.

SD HD
02 702 KSFX
08 708 KSPR
12 712 KYTV

I would expect to find KOLR on 709 since the Analog is on 09

They were supposed to turn off the KOLR HD and were not going to map it into the system until it is fixed. I don't know if it is up at the moment or not.

KSFX has audio problems (on Mediacom). At the moment it is nothing but a sideshow curiosity. An early adoptor might enjoy a peek behind the scenes as it goes through birthing pains, but there's really nothing worth watching yet.

After all the testing is done it will probably move to a lower channel. The cable boxes (and cablecards) will re-map automatically, and QAM users will have to re-scan.

Rhoops, thanks for keeping us updated on everything. I am now receiving 702 and 709 on Mediacom. They have some problems, but at least they are there.

I do have some more questions though for my parents who live in Lebanon. I have seen you guys responses to the others that are asking about Lebanon, but I have a couple more questions.

They have a 4:3 HDTV that is only capable of 1080i. They are wanting to get an HDTV tuner and antenna to pick up the Springfield locals. Here are my questions:

1. Are there any cheaper Tuners than the Samsung SIR-T451? They just want to receive the HD, they don't need added features. Is there a good one for under $100?

2. Am I correct in thinking that any receiver they get will upconvert any of the local stations that are ran in 720p to 1080i considering my TV doesn't support 720p?

3. Do you think they would have to hire an installer to hook the antenna up on the roof and run the coax wire? They have bunny ears, but I'm not sure if they will get strong enough of a signal.

4. If they can pick up the HD OTA channels signal, is it all or nothing? Am I correct in thinking that there won't be any static on the HD channels? If the bunny ears aren't strong enough will the channel just not completely come in or is there pixelation, etc?

5. For the programs that aren't ran in HD on the HD channels, are they still displayed in SD on that channel? Or will they have to change back to the SD channel to watch them?

Thanks again everyone who knows about this stuff in this forum!

anybody live in the 65049 zip and have DTV?? It is Lake Ozark.

Rhoops, thanks for keeping us updated on everything. I
They have a 4:3 HDTV that is only capable of 1080i. They are wanting to get an HDTV tuner and antenna to pick up the Springfield locals. Here are my questions:

1. Are there any cheaper Tuners than the Samsung SIR-T451? They just want to receive the HD, they don't need added features. Is there a good one for under $100?

Not that I know of. In fact I haven't seen anything but the Samsung on the market. It's $250. Everyone says that eventually they will sell for under $50 at Walmart, but I don't see manufacturers working on it.

2. Am I correct in thinking that any receiver they get will upconvert any of the local stations that are ran in 720p to 1080i considering my TV doesn't support 720p?

Of course it depends on the box. The Samsung will ouput anything from SD composite like your old VCR up to 1080i and everything in between, including S-Video.

3. Do you think they would have to hire an installer to hook the antenna up on the roof and run the coax wire? They have bunny ears, but I'm not sure if they will get strong enough of a signal.

Get an installer to put up a rooftop antenna. Keep "Grandpa" off the roof. I'd think 10-20 feet above rooftop. The Channel Master they speak of on this board is great.

If you need a cheaper alternative, get a Radio Shack $25 UHF only antenna, a 10 foot mast and some sort of house bracket, and install it yourself.

4. If they can pick up the HD OTA channels signal, is it all or nothing? Am I correct in thinking that there won't be any static on the HD channels? If the bunny ears aren't strong enough will the channel just not completely come in or is there pixelation, etc?

There is pixellation and dropout on marginal signals.

5. For the programs that aren't ran in HD on the HD channels, are they still displayed in SD on that channel? Or will they have to change back to the SD channel to watch them?

The OTA digital signal will be full time. It when in local SD programming it will be upconverted to HD at the station. When in network HD, you will get the full 1080i digital stream on CBS and 720p on Fox.

I'm looking at Mediacom channel 62 and find both Fox and CBS, but it's totally worthless at the moment. Very pixellated with any motion.

I'm sure they will work on it next week. At least we're one step closer, but for this weekend anyway, "no cigar".

On my Samsung DTB-H260F I'm now getting them on 62-13 and 62-14 using the cable QAM. Picture quality on one is 720P and the other is1080I. PQ is OK but the sound is breaking up on both. I'm viewing on my projector system. At this size it really shows any of PQ problems. At the time I was able to view, it I didn't notice any breakups in the picuture, just the sound.

Come on Mediacom!!! We need this for the games tonight :cool:

...
1. Are there any cheaper Tuners than the Samsung SIR-T451? They just want to receive the HD, they don't need added features. Is there a good one for under $100?AFAIK, there is no standalone OTA digital tuner for under $100. In fact, there are very few to choose from at all. The new Samsung DTB-H260F is pretty good. Here's the thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=728392&page=3&pp=20) for it. It sells for between $150 and $200 online (http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=Samsung+DTB-H260F) or at Circuit City or Best Buy, when in stock.

2. Am I correct in thinking that any receiver they get will upconvert any of the local stations that are ran in 720p to 1080i considering my TV doesn't support 720p?Most receivers, including the Samsung above, will upconvert all digital TV channels, regardless of original resolution, to a single resolution you choose, like 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i.

5. For the programs that aren't ran in HD on the HD channels, are they still displayed in SD on that channel? Or will they have to change back to the SD channel to watch them?All local HD channels also carry SD programs like the analog channels have. It's basically a mirror of the analog channel, only some of the programming is HD and some SD.

...The OTA digital signal will be full time. It when in local SD programming it will be upconverted to HD at the station... SD programming is upconverted to 720p or 1080i by the networks or local stations, and looks very good, but it is not HD quality. But it's a helluvalot better than ghosty ol' analog :-)

Thanks for the replies Rhoops.

I still don't think they would go for a $250 HD tuner box. Surely there are other boxes out there, while not as good, still produce a decent HD OTA signal for around $100 or less (on Ebay possibly?).

Like this one:

http://cgi.*********/Like-New-Directv-H20-HDTV-receiver-Awesome-picture_W0QQitemZ290055155881QQihZ019QQcategoryZ67892QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem

or this one

http://cgi.*********/Samsung-HDTV-Tuner-SIR-TS360-Directors-Pack-Receiver_W0QQitemZ300052651254QQihZ020QQcategoryZ61396QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem

Don't these include OTA tuners too?

Could they not just use this for OTA? It's a DirecTV receiver, but couldn't they just not hook it up for DirecTV? They don't have DirecTV, and don't want to pay for it.

EDIT

Ok, those links aren't working. One of them is a Samsung HDTV Tuner SIR-TS360, the other is the DirecTV H20.

Why are there so few choices?

Mediacom channel 702 has HD fox on now!!! I'm so freaking excited!! Bring on KOLR 709 and I'll die from happiness!

Ok, those links aren't working. One of them is a Samsung HDTV Tuner SIR-TS360, the other is the DirecTV H20.

Why are there so few choices?

I think you'll find the DirectTV box requires a 2 year subscription. The SIR-TS360 is probably a newer version of the SIR-T451 and it's about $180. It looks like it would do the job.

I can only imagine why there aren't more manufacturers. The retailers like Best Buy and Circuit City push satellite and cable. I guess they get kickbacks or some other reward. Nobody is giving them an incentive to sell the free OTA stuff. I think a lot of salesmen would tell you that you need cable or satellite to get HD.

If the big box retailers don't sell them, the manufacturers won't make them.

Strangely enough the Samsung STB's are often out of stock and no one discounts them. Perhaps the box costs a lot to make and retailers don't have much profit margin.

Rhoops, thanks for keeping us updated on everything. I am now receiving 702 and 709 on Mediacom. They have some problems, but at least they are there.

I do have some more questions though for my parents who live in Lebanon. I have seen you guys responses to the others that are asking about Lebanon, but I have a couple more questions.

They have a 4:3 HDTV that is only capable of 1080i. They are wanting to get an HDTV tuner and antenna to pick up the Springfield locals. Here are my questions:

1. Are there any cheaper Tuners than the Samsung SIR-T451? They just want to receive the HD, they don't need added features. Is there a good one for under $100?

2. Am I correct in thinking that any receiver they get will upconvert any of the local stations that are ran in 720p to 1080i considering my TV doesn't support 720p?

3. Do you think they would have to hire an installer to hook the antenna up on the roof and run the coax wire? They have bunny ears, but I'm not sure if they will get strong enough of a signal.

4. If they can pick up the HD OTA channels signal, is it all or nothing? Am I correct in thinking that there won't be any static on the HD channels? If the bunny ears aren't strong enough will the channel just not completely come in or is there pixelation, etc?

5. For the programs that aren't ran in HD on the HD channels, are they still displayed in SD on that channel? Or will they have to change back to the SD channel to watch them?

Thanks again everyone who knows about this stuff in this forum!

Have you verified that the TV's built-in tuner will not receive a 720P signal?

Try this: Get an HDTV antenna (you're gonna need one any way you go) and point it south. Go to antennaweb for the exact direction. Then see what you get. If you receive KY3 3-1, your getting 1080i. If you receive pbs-HD 21-2, then you are getting 720P.

I think you'll find the DirectTV box requires a 2 year subscription. The SIR-TS360 is probably a newer version of the SIR-T451 and it's about $180. It looks like it would do the job.The SIR-TS360 (and it's older twin the TS160) is a DirecTV/OTA receiver. They will work for OTA only, but usually require that a DirecTV access card be inserted in the receiver's smart card slot, or you can't access the setup menu to scan for OTA channels. Beware of these boxes on Ebay.

The newest D* receiver is the H20, which is now leased by D* and must be subscribed to D* at all times or the OTA portion will not work.

See the STB Synopsis thread in this area of the forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=25), for details on what boxes are available right now.

I can only imagine why there aren't more manufacturers. The retailers like Best Buy and Circuit City push satellite and cable. I guess they get kickbacks or some other reward. Nobody is giving them an incentive to sell the free OTA stuff.You hit the nail on the head.

The bigbox stores do get incentives from sat and cablecos to push their stuff. Also, they'd also rather sell you a new TV than a STB.

rhoops, I was wondering if you could give us an idea of the "mood" of the engineering staff, is there a sense of urgency, or is it more laid back, it will come when it is ready type feel? Thanks for all the info you have provided.

rhoops, I was wondering if you could give us an idea of the "mood" of the engineering staff, is there a sense of urgency, or is it more laid back, it will come when it is ready type feel? Thanks for all the info you have provided.

Other than firemen and Titanic passengers, can't imagine anyone with more urgency than the engineers. We have 4 people working on it, the Chief, a Fox guy, a CBS guy and a transmitter guy. They hardly do anything else. There is also the tower crew doing their work, although they can't work in this ice.

Configuring the CBS HD rack has been particularly taxing. There are lots of different components and many different menus and configuration settings. Although 3rd party consultants designed and purchased the equipment, it doesn't always work like they thought it would.

1. Are there any cheaper Tuners than the Samsung SIR-T451? They just want to receive the HD, they don't need added features. Is there a good one for under $100?


I had a Samsung SIR-TS160 I sold for under $100 on eBay, I've seen them cheaper than that. They'll work for OTA only with an expired access card. They work great as an OTA tuner. I also heard old Voom receivers could be used as OTA ATSC tuners.
http://home.att.net/~roashru/Voom.html

If you have a OTA HD tuner in a *E receiver and one in your HD TV which is best to use? Are there any advantages to either? Thanks

If you have a OTA HD tuner in a *E receiver and one in your HD TV which is best to use? Are there any advantages to either? ThanksAll things being equal, using the E* built in OTA tuner would be more convenient, with no input switching between OTA & E*. But:

1. Your E* receiver probably has an integrated program guide for both E* & OTA channels. Your TV may or may not display a guide, depending on the model and whether all the local channels provide full EPG info.

2. Your TV may display a better picture with its built in OTA tuner or with the E* tuner. Or there may be no discernable differece in PQ.

3. If you live in a weak signal or multipath area, one OTA tuner may work better than the other. One may suffer from pixelation and dropouits from the bad signal, while the other one is immune to the bad signal reception. It might mean the difference between receiving or not receiving poorly received channel(s) at all.

So, there is no cut & dried answer.

All things being equal, using the E* built in OTA tuner would be more convenient, with no input switching between OTA & E*. But:

1. Your E* receiver probably has an integrated program guide for both E* & OTA channels. Your TV may or may not display a guide, depending on the model and whether all the local channels provide full EPG info.

2. Your TV may display a better picture with its built in OTA tuner or with the E* tuner. Or there may be no discernable differece in PQ.

3. If you live in a weak signal or multipath area, one OTA tuner may work better than the other. One may suffer from pixelation and dropouits from the bad signal, while the other one is immune to the bad signal reception. It might mean the difference between receiving or not receiving poorly received channel(s) at all.

So, there is no cut & dried answer.Thanks for the help, I'll just try both and see. I thought if there was a clear cut answer thats what I'd do for the best picture. Thanks again

Have you verified that the TV's built-in tuner will not receive a 720P signal?

Try this: Get an HDTV antenna (you're gonna need one any way you go) and point it south. Go to antennaweb for the exact direction. Then see what you get. If you receive KY3 3-1, your getting 1080i. If you receive pbs-HD 21-2, then you are getting 720P.

No, there is no built in tuner in their TV. It is an old CRT HDTV. That is why they need a STB. I know it doesn't do 720p because I hooked up my Xbox 360 and it was set to 720p and it wouldn't display.

No, there is no built in tuner in their TV. It is an old CRT HDTV. That is why they need a STB. I know it doesn't do 720p because I hooked up my Xbox 360 and it was set to 720p and it wouldn't display.It is an HD-ready monitor.

No, there is no built in tuner in their TV. It is an old CRT HDTV. That is why they need a STB. I know it doesn't do 720p because I hooked up my Xbox 360 and it was set to 720p and it wouldn't display.

The new Samsung DTB-H260F can be had online for around $170. Some places more some less. This box does QAM and ATSC. I use QAM but I hooked it up to a regular old pair of rabbit ears and it pulled in KY3, PBS, etc. with a 100% signal. The rest were about 40-50%. I have a larger antenna in the attic but haven't hooked it up yet. I live about 12 miles from the towers on the East side of Springfield.

For comparison, I used to have E* and used their box for OTA and it didn't do near the job with aquiring the signals as this box does. With the E* box I had to align the antenna with the tower pretty much dead on to the KY3 towers and when I did I could not pick up the low power from the others. I know this will change when the others will go full power but, I think it shows the ability of this box. Do a search on this forum for the box and there is a lot of information avialable. Here is a good review too: http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/h260f.html

Also, Radio Shack had one, Accurian I believe, that was under $100 but, they have been closed out. You might find one online, like ebay or something.

Good luck!

I'm looking at Mediacom channel 62 and find both Fox and CBS, but it's totally worthless at the moment. Very pixellated with any motion.

I'm sure they will work on it next week. At least we're one step closer, but for this weekend anyway, "no cigar".

Ok, I'm an addict. I can't watch any NTSC on my big screen. I watched the game last night in HD but I hooked up another TV to get the NTSC sound. Hehe.

The sound was weird. The commercials had sound but most of the game did not. So, I hooked up a regular old TV for the sound and watched it that way. :)

Bring it on rhoops!!!!

OK, what am I missing. The Chiefs was supposed to be in HD, but it clearly was not. The college game last night was, but with no sound. Why would the telecast today be of such inferior quality to last nights?

OK, what am I missing. The Chiefs was supposed to be in HD, but it clearly was not. The college game last night was, but with no sound. Why would the telecast today be of such inferior quality to last nights?

I understand your enthusiasm completely. It is not ready for prime time yet and that has been stated in previous posts. You might think of this as beta testing for them :) rhoops has explained everthing in previous posts.

rhoops,

with the weather breaking and looking pretty good, will the contractors be able to continue work outside?

thanks

rhoops,

with the weather breaking and looking pretty good, will the contractors be able to continue work outside?

thanks

Ahyup! They were on the tower today. KFSX was at reduced power today to allow for tower work. Falling ice damaged the antenna while it was on the ground. Replacement parts are here. The antenna should be raised Thursday.

That won't put us on the air, but it is another step.

Sweet thanks for the update

I dought anyone worked on the tower today, it's a cold windy son-of-a-gun out there. I know i've been out in it all day.

I recently exchanged a couple of emails with Mike Scott, General Manager of KY3, about their lack of 5.1 audio. He was very cordial. Here's what he had to say.
We are not currently broadcasting the 5:1 audio because several cable companies use our digital signal and they can’t accept the new format. We do have the equipment installed but we don’t have a solution for the cable companies at this point. We will continue to look for an answer as more viewers will request this as time goes on.
And:
A couple of more notes. The cable companies take our digital feed and convert it to analog because of reception problems with our analog signal. We’re excited about the transition to digital because our analog signal is very susceptible to interference problems. We have allowed the cable companies to do this since 2002 when there weren’t enough digital sets to matter. I will look for a solution as we head into 2007 as there are now a significant number of digital sets.
I might also mention that we will build out KSPR as soon as the FCC approves our deal. Unfortunately, it could take 6+ months for that to occur. Once we have an agreement, it will probably take another 3-6 months to complete the installation. We are committed to offering full HD as soon as possible.
So, it looks like KSPR is at least a year away from HD.

They need to work on 3-1's poor 1080i picture quality. It certainly isn't HD quality, and can't be, with 2 additional multicasts going at the same time.

KNWA-DT, the NBC affiliate in Rogers, AR looks a lot more like true HD than 3-1.

Rhoops, any news on when Mediacom is going to make the KSFX and KOLR stations live again? They were up last Friday but had problems. Are they working on these problems and won't make them live again until they are fixed? Are the problems them or are you guys having issues with the signal that is being sent to them?

Rhoops, any news on when Mediacom is going to make the KSFX and KOLR stations live again? They were up last Friday but had problems. Are they working on these problems and won't make them live again until they are fixed? Are the problems them or are you guys having issues with the signal that is being sent to them?

The Mediacom guy came on Friday. There is some basic incompatability with two digital boxes. If you saw it, you know what it looks like. A reasonable person would assume that they won't put it on the system until it is corrected.

I just found out that the Scopus IRD that Mediacom is using is not compatible with the Tandberg encoder we use. Evidently Mediacom will need to get different IRD / Decoders. The good news is that things will probably work just fine with a different box.

I hear the Antenna has been installed on the Fordland tower. Monday there will be electrical testing of the antenna and transmission line.

That still won't put us on the air, but is an indicator that progress is being made.

Anybody else with the DTB-H260F have trouble with the KY3 and KSPR QAM channels last night? I had no trouble with the 75-78 channels but had what seemed like drop outs with both KY3 and KSPR, I then went to the T.V. in my BR that has built in QAM and had no problems (btw this was during Las Vegas and what ever was on 33 at that time).

Could be a weaker coax connection going to the DTB-260. Check all your connectors for looseness. If it happens again, try moving the DTB-260 to the BR TV. If problem still exists in the BR, you may have a marginally weak signal that the BR TV's built in tuner can tolerate, but the 260 can't.

If that's the case, try to get the cableco to check the signal strength to your house.

O.K I finally got the 4228 the 7777 amp with a rotor on today, I'm down on Table Rock lake and some of you guys were very helpful. I still have a couple of things to do. I haven't pushed the antenna as high as it would go and I need to cut off about 30 feet of coax. I just set it up temp. Because I didn't know if I could get anything or not. I get kfsm,kaft,khog sometimes,knwa,kfta. So far no Springfield channels. My signal strength is in the 90s but I get a lot of drop out. Can someone tell me whats going on? What should the signal be? It comes in about the same no matter which way the antenna is pointed. Thanks again

vette41,
Is the signal strength steady or bouncing around? It depends on the tuner, but generally a steady signal non-wavering strength above 50% usually gives reliable reception.

Check your antenna & preamp and make sure everything's connected properly.
http://tinypic.com/44qbmuo.gif

If you're using the OTA tuner in the Dish HD receiver, that could be part of your problem. Their tuners sometimes don't work well in areas with weak signals or multipath. How are the analog OTA channels? If they have ghosts, you have a multipath problem that the Dish OTA tuner deal with, so you get dropouts.

If you have a mountain by you blocking the signals from Springfield, you probably won't get those channels.

vette41,
Is the signal strength steady or bouncing around? It depends on the tuner, but generally a steady signal non-wavering strength above 50% usually gives reliable reception.

Check your antenna & preamp and make sure everything's connected properly.
http://tinypic.com/44qbmuo.gif

If you're using the OTA tuner in the Dish HD receiver, that could be part of your problem. Their tuners sometimes don't work well in areas with weak signals or multipath. How are the analog OTA channels? If they have ghosts, you have a multipath problem that the Dish OTA tuner deal with, so you get dropouts.

If you have a mountain by you blocking the signals from Springfield, you probably won't get those channels.
Thanks for the help, It seems that 51 is the main problem. I get KHOG and most of the others real good now after a little tweak. The signal goes from 92 to 0 every 20 to 30 seconds. I've checked all connections and I think your right about the Dish tuner. When it stays on it's a great pic. even better that just through just the tv tuner. Also I can get Springfield 21 hd but not NBC. Does any of this make sense?

You're probably getting multipath bounced signal interference off a mountain, or interference from another station on the same channel, or some other form of RF interference that the tuner in the Dish box can't deal with.

Have you tried aiming the 4228 directly at KNWA's tower? How far are you from there?
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT1006433.gif

Right at the moment I'm watching KSFM HD, the Chiefs in HD is great. The problem is 51 KWNA it's the one that goes off and on. Thats why I'm not sure whats happening I thought that tower would be the best and I would have problems with the others. Also I've notice that when KSFM goes away from the HD picture I get some drop out then. When it's HD its perfect :confused:

Since you specifically mentioned KNWA, that's why I asked if you have tried aiming the 4228 directly at KNWA's tower.

Have you tried that?

Since you specifically mentioned KNWA, that's why I asked if you have tried aiming the 4228 directly at KNWA's tower.

Have you tried that?Yes I have, As directly as I can guess where it is! I've moved the antenna a click at a time all across the southwest. While watching KSFM it doesn't do it then all the sudden it will do it for a while then quit again. I guess I'll try raising it a few feet.

Usually, the higher you can get the antenna, the better.

A tuner that more or less ignores multipath interference may also help. You could buy one of THESE (http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/Search.do?c=1&context=&keyword=DTB-H260F&searchSection=20012866%7CTV+%26+Video&go.x=6&go.y=7) at Circuit City. It will work where many older generation tuners won't. If it doesn't solve the problem, just return it for a refund.

I hear the Antenna has been installed on the Fordland tower. Monday there will be electrical testing of the antenna and transmission line.

That still won't put us on the air, but is an indicator that progress is being made.

With the antenna installed and electrical testing underway, does that mean they just fire up the equipment and make sure nothing blows?

With that complete, what would one expect? in a week or so when they start to try to broadcast a signal?

With the antenna installed and electrical testing underway, does that mean they just fire up the equipment and make sure nothing blows? ?

First they check that there are no air leaks when the line is pressurized. Eventually it will be filled with dry nitrogen, purged and filled with nitrogen again.

Then they connect a time-domain reflectometer and sweep many different frequencies. The TDR will show any problems, and then the problems will be fixed.

With that complete, what would one expect? in a week or so when they start to try to broadcast a signal?

As I mentioned before we are still waiting on some RF plumbing which is being custom manufactured. When everything is ready we will summon the transmitter manufacturers rep. When he gets here he will spend several days checking out the equipment. When he brings all that stuff online, he will have further tests to do, and will eventually perform the offical "proof of performance" and document that. Of course all this has to be done twice. Once for each transmitter.

rhoops,

When the initial on-air testing is done, is the power level ever taken above what the FCC normally allows for a station? Or is that even possible? Just curious about a nearby digital station down here in Ark. that was receivable for quite a distance the first few days it was on the air - then vanished.

rhoops,

When the initial on-air testing is done, is the power level ever taken above what the FCC normally allows for a station? Or is that even possible? Just curious about a nearby digital station down here in Ark. that was receivable for quite a distance the first few days it was on the air - then vanished.

I couldn't imagine any significant level change. Increasing from 1000 KW to 2000 KW would only be a 3 db increase, and there's no way you could push it that hard.

I just walked into the garage and saw the the apocryphal "RF Plumbing" I've been talking about was delivered Saturday. As far as I know, that is the last piece of the puzzle.

I know what happens when a person "assumes" but is it safe to say that if I am able to pick up NBC 3-1 with my current rabbit ears I will be able to pick up the new stations as well?

I know what happens when a person "assumes" but is it safe to say that if I am able to pick up NBC 3-1 with my current rabbit ears I will be able to pick up the new stations as well?

I guess that depends on where you are. The KOLR / KSFX / KSPR tower is quite a bit north of the KYTV / KOZK towers.

The same distance from Sunshine to Division street. The northern tower is due east of Division street and the southern tower is due east of Sunshine street.

If you are in Ozark or Sparta, it might be a bit of a stretch for rabbit ears.

I guess that depends on where you are. The KOLR / KSFX / KSPR tower is quite a bit north of the KYTV / KOZK towers.

The same distance from Sunshine to Division street. The northern tower is due east of Division street and the southern tower is due east of Sunshine street.

If you are in Ozark or Sparta, it might be a bit of a stretch for rabbit ears.

It also depends on how high the hill is you live on. Some people down here at Crane can pick up the tv signals with a coat hanger. Not me though, I live in a holler. You can tell I was born and raised down in these hills by my language huh. And it's been a many years since I went to school,I still like my HDTV though. Can't wait to see whats on CBS and FOX,I haven't watched a program on these networks in a few years, except for nascar on FOX.

Can't wait to see whats on CBS and FOX,I haven't watched a program on these networks in a few years, except for nascar on FOX.

That's the thing I think the local stations don't get when they deny HD waviers all this time. I have watched a heck of a lot more NBC prime since I got a Directv HD reciever with OTA tuner a couple of years ago than I ever did before. The reason, HD content. It is the network and its HD content, if we watch it regularly in HD we would come back to the locals once they are in HD. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

I live in Lebanon and get NBC 3-1 through rabbit ears @ 65-70%. I hope that will be suficient.

I just walked into the garage and saw the the apocryphal "RF Plumbing" I've been talking about was delivered Saturday. As far as I know, that is the last piece of the puzzle.

Now that we have that settled, I'm guessing the transmitter rep will be summoned in the next week or so (of course, we may be looking at after jan 1 at this point depending on if they can get someone here next week)

Are the low power DT signals off the air? I can't get KSFX anymore at all.

I couldn't imagine any significant level change. Increasing from 1000 KW to 2000 KW would only be a 3 db increase, and there's no way you could push it that hard.I was thinking of more like from 200kW to 1,000kW. The station I received (for just a short time during initial "fire up") is KFTA-DT. It came in at 100%, then disappeared a couple days later.

They are currently authorized to broadcast at 200kW, but have an application for 1000kW. Info here (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=kfta&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9).

I was thinking of more like from 200kW to 1,000kW. The station I received (for just a short time during initial "fire up") is KFTA-DT. It came in at 100%, then disappeared a couple days later.

They are currently authorized to broadcast at 200kW, but have an application for 1000kW. Info here (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=kfta&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9).
You might try it again, its on now

Any news on Mediacom having KOLR & KSFX in HD. Does anyone have these channels in their guide?

I just switched to mediacom from dish, and I have an lg 3410 qam tuner, but I have not been able to get the hd channels with it is anyone using one of these and how do you get it to work?

You might try it again, its on nowvette41,
I can't receive KFTA-DT. I occasionally get blips on the signal strength meter up to 60% or more, but it rapidly drops to zero again, and will not lock. The reason is because KFTA-DT and KSFX analog in Springfield are both on channel 27. I can get analog KSFX analog fine, but it's jamming KFTA-DT on the same frequency. So I won't be able to get KFTA-DT until either:
1. KFTA-DT increases power.
2. KSFX analog shuts down or reduces power.

Any news on Mediacom having KOLR & KSFX in HD. Does anyone have these channels in their guide?

Mediacom knows what it has to do to make it work. They need get another brand of IRD / Decoder that is compatible with KOLR / KSFX's Tandberg Encoder.

They won't make the channels active until it's working properly.

Their current Scopus IRD / Decoder, just doesn't "get along" with a Tandberg.

So it's conceivable that KOLR/KSFX may actually be available to us free OTA antenna viewers before they get on cable?

So it's conceivable that KOLR/KSFX may actually be available to us free OTA antenna viewers before they get on cable?

Conveivable, but not likely. I think Medicom has the proper decoder / IRD on order and they could walk in with it tomorrow afternoon.

Things are going remarkably well at the transmitter site. The antenna and transmission are complete and were tested today. The transmitter rep is in town.
The chief engineer still won't "guarantee" a Christmas air date, but I think we are very close.

rhoops, since I can receive 44 and 23 here in Arkansas, I would be very interested in the HAAT of KOLR and KSFX compared to KY3, you have been kind enough to give the location north and south but since i'm almost due south of Fordland, I'm interested in HAAT.
-Leon

langlin, I'm sure rhoops will answer your question, but you can look up all sorts of station info, including ERP, HAAT, frequency, etc. at:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html
Just enter the station's 4 call letters in the "Call Sign" field.

To get info about all Springfield stations at once, leave the call sign field blank and type Springfield into the "City" field, and hit ENTER.

For each station's info, look under the "digital" heading in red for DTV info.
"STA" means Special Temporary Authority to operate at low power and/or temp. tower locations.

Thanks arxaw, ouch that means KOLR and KSFX are 270 feet lower than KY3, sure hope I can still skim in and receive them, I sometime get pixelation on KOZK when the leaves are on the trees and they are 231 feet higher than KOLR will be but at 100kW, I will just keep my fingers crossed, my antenna is 40 feet high now so I won't be going higher.

langlin,
If you click the "coverage maps" that will give you a conservative estimate of whether or not you will be able to receive the stations. I am right on the edge of KYTV-DT & KOZK-DT's coverage maps, and I get them at 100% signal strength. Of course, elevation helps.

What's the elevation at your house? If you don't know, a mouseover of your house address using Google Earth software will tell you. You can also determine the height of hills between you & the Fordland/Spgfld area.
http://earth.google.com
(broadband required)

What antenna are you using? Do you have a peramp?

arxaw, I'm at 592 ft (36.19.11 92.15.56) and there is nothing higher than Fordland between us, but I don't know how to account for the curvature of the earth. My antenna is an old all channel Channel Master 1985 vintage with a preamp and I could certainly up grade that.

If your OTA equipment is over 20 yrs old, replacing it with something newer would likely help. A high gain CM 4228 antenna (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm) + CM 7777 preamp (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm) usually work well at your distance. The 4228 should also work for KOLR-DT when they move from UHF ch 52 back to VHF ch 10 in 2009. I currenty use this combo for VHF chs 9 & 13, plus the UHF chs.

Are you using RG6 or RG59 coax?

RG59 and your right it will probably help,

arxaw, I'm at 592 ft (36.19.11 92.15.56) and there is nothing higher than Fordland between us, but I don't know how to account for the curvature of the earth. My antenna is an old all channel Channel Master 1985 vintage with a preamp and I could certainly up grade that.

I was really surprised to hear your elevation above sea level. Ground level at the KOLR / KSFX / KSPR tower is 1577 ft AMSL. Even Bull Shoals is 653 ft, so you are quite a ways "downstream".

I think the best test is how well you pull in channels 27 and 33. RG6 and a new preamp would be a good start.

I was really surprised to hear your elevation above sea level. Ground level at the KOLR / KSFX / KSPR tower is 1577 ft AMSL. Even Bull Shoals is 653 ft, so you are quite a ways "downstream".

I think the best test is how well you pull in channels 27 and 33. RG6 and a new preamp would be a good start.

Yeah we are lower than Bull Shoals, I get 10 and 3 analog clear but the Uhf's 33 and 27 are "watchable" but with snow. To be honest, I was surprised to get a perfect signal from 44 so maybe yours will be there too, I still need to fix up my antenna system anyway but I really had no incentive until you guys started HD. I spent 35 years in broadcasting so I feel your excitement. Thanks for your effort.

I am sitting right at 1,400 feet and get KY3 and KOZK at about 93 signal strength. Occasionally, I have picked up 10 and 27 even at their reduced power. I would assume the new and improved versions of those channels won't be a problem.

Even though I am quite a bit west of you, I would bet you have a pretty good shot of landing the new channels when they fire up.

Do you ever catch any of the Jonesboro stations at your location?

I can receive the abc analog from Jonesboro but I don't have a roter and haven't seen any digital from there yet. I get the Digital PBS (KETS AETN) from Mountain View, AR like gangbusters even though they are directly behind my antenna. 1400 feet sounds like you are on a mountain top :).

I can receive the abc analog from Jonesboro but I don't have a roter and haven't seen any digital from there yet. I get the Digital PBS (KETS AETN) from Mountain View, AR like gangbusters even though they are directly behind my antenna. 1400 feet sounds like you are on a mountain top :).

KAIT-DT is on RF channel 9 (VHF). I've received them a few times via tropo scatter/ducting in upper-Southeastern Arkansas. They do pass HD, but also mulitcast a local weather channel, and The Tube. Pointing the antenna toward Eqypt AR during evening or early morning may bring in KAIT.

BTW I'll give ya a shout the first time KOLR/KSFX digitals shows up here with the trop enhancements.

H.
in the southern Little Rock DMA (and soon to be grade B for KTVE-DT)

I'm able to pickup Springfield PBS dt but not KYTV dt does that sound logical or am I just not finding it? I'm on Table Rock. Thanks

I can receive the abc analog from Jonesboro but I don't have a roter and haven't seen any digital from there yet. I get the Digital PBS (KETS AETN) from Mountain View, AR like gangbusters even though they are directly behind my antenna. 1400 feet sounds like you are on a mountain top :).

No mountain top, just a ridge. 1400 is a fairly common elevation here in the Harrison area.... I think the airport sits at 1362 or so.......

The elevation helps though, as I get all 4 of the majors from the Fayetteville DMA, and quite often pull in some of the Little Rock stations......

I'm able to pickup Springfield PBS dt but not KYTV dt does that sound logical or am I just not finding it? I'm on Table Rock. Thanks
Sounds unlikely to me, have you tried to manually put in channel 44?

No mountain top, just a ridge. 1400 is a fairly common elevation here in the Harrison area.... I think the airport sits at 1362 or so.......

The elevation helps though, as I get all 4 of the majors from the Fayetteville DMA, and quite often pull in some of the Little Rock stations......
I guess one of the disadvantages of being on the lake shore is that puts me in kind of a hole for DT but the fishing is great.

I live near St Johns (On South Side so no obstructions accept some trees toward Fordland) and am looking to get an antenna. I am looking at the 4228. I have a SAMSUNG SIR-T451 HDTV TUNER on the way and a samsung hdtv.
My questions are
1) Will I get all major networks with this 4228 antenna? in anolog or hdtv?
2) Will 4228 do vhf/uhf?
3)Any indoor antenna that might work?
4)My attic is wood and regular shingles. Okay to put 4228 in attic?
5)Any other possibilities for OTA?

Thank you in advance, really like this forum very helpful.

Sounds unlikely to me, have you tried to manually put in channel 44?No I haven't, but I will try it. Thanks

I live near St Johns (On South Side so no obstructions accept some trees toward Fordland) and am looking to get an antenna. I am looking at the 4228. I have a SAMSUNG SIR-T451 HDTV TUNER on the way and a samsung hdtv.
My questions are
1) Will I get all major networks with this 4228 antenna? in anolog or hdtv?
2) Will 4228 do vhf/uhf?
3)Any indoor antenna that might work?
4)My attic is wood and regular shingles. Okay to put 4228 in attic?
5)Any other possibilities for OTA?

Thank you in advance, really like this forum very helpful.

1) Yes and no. You'll get 4 HD channels (well, when KSFX and KOLR go full power any day now) You will NOT get ABC in HD anytime soon. Its just not going to happen (see previous posts)

I live near St Johns (On South Side so no obstructions accept some trees toward Fordland) and am looking to get an antenna. I am looking at the 4228. I have a SAMSUNG SIR-T451 HDTV TUNER on the way and a samsung hdtv.
My questions are
1) Will I get all major networks with this 4228 antenna? in anolog or hdtv?
2) Will 4228 do vhf/uhf?
3)Any indoor antenna that might work?
4)My attic is wood and regular shingles. Okay to put 4228 in attic?
5)Any other possibilities for OTA?

Thank you in advance, really like this forum very helpful.Believe me there are others here that know a whole lot more than me but I can tell you a little. You can get all the networks but KY3-DT is the only one that is in HD right now. That will soon change as CBS-Fox are close to being ready. The other 2 questions you'll have to try it to know for sure.

I have a 4228 in my attic and I am not too far away from you jtdhistory. I receive everything in digital just fine, except for 33. Occasionally I can get it, but only if the stars are aligned correctly :) It does come in fine analog though :) If you were to get a pre-amp 33 might be fine. I don't know, I am going to buy one after the first of the year. 33 sits around 33-48 percent signal strength atm

...Ground level at the KOLR / KSFX / KSPR tower is 1577 ft AMSL....Isn't the top of the tower around 3,000 ft AMSL?

I'm able to pickup Springfield PBS dt but not KYTV dt does that sound logical or am I just not finding it? I'm on Table Rock. ThanksWith mountains in the way between you and springfield, any reception you're getting is probably being bounced off a nearby hill. If your present tuner doesn't deal with multipath well, reliable reception is probably not possible. Newer tuners can actually use bounced signals (multipath) to their advantage. The newest tuner from DirecTV, the H20-600, works well for this. A new standalone OTA-only tuner that is excellent in multipath environments is the Samsung DTB H260F (http://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+h260f), available at Circuit City (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Customer-reviews-for-Samsung-HD-Tuner-DTB-H260F/sem/rpsm/oid/164855/rpem/ccd/productDetailReview.do) or online.

...I am looking at the 4228. I have a SAMSUNG SIR-T451 HDTV TUNER on the way and a samsung hdtv.
My questions are
1) Will I get all major networks with this 4228 antenna? in anolog or hdtv?
All in HD except ABC, which is digital, but only Standard Definition digital. You should be able to get all the analog VHF/UHF channels as well with the 4228. I get analog 3 with a tad bit of snow but it's quite watchable. But I never watch analog 3 because there's no reason to. I am also 70 crow-fly miles from Fordland, so your reception should be better.

2) Will 4228 do vhf/uhf?The 4228 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm) works well for the frequencies being used for digital in Springfield, including all UHF and eventually "highband" VHF (chs 7 thru 13). KOLR-10 will probably move back to ch 10 in 2009.

3)Any indoor antenna that might work?Maybe, maybe not. Only real way to tell is to try one. Buy locally if you can, so you can return the indoor antenna if it doesn't work well. A good one is the "Silver Sensor" from Zenith, Gemini and Philips (http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PM-HDTV1-Silver-Sensor-Antenna/dp/B00022O9VM). AVOID any similar sounding named antennas sold under the high priced TERK brand. They are often knockoffs of similar antennas and usually overpriced underperformers. Bigbox stores sell TERK for their high profit margin.

4)My attic is wood and regular shingles. Okay to put 4228 in attic?You can try, if it will fit through the attic hatch door (dimensions are roughly 39"x39"). If your roof doesn't have a foil radiant barrier on the decking and you don't have foil backed insulation in the walls or metal siding, an attic antenna will often work just fine. Advantages are it doesn't show and won't corrode over time in the weather. And it doesn't have to be grounded, like an outdoor antenna. Disadvantages are, you lose some signal strength. Some people say up to half, but not sure....

5)Any other possibilities for OTA?Not that I know of.

With mountains in the way between you and springfield, any reception you're getting is probably being bounced off a nearby hill. If your present tuner doesn't deal with multipath well, reliable reception is probably not possible. Newer tuners can actually use bounced signals (multipath) to their advantage. The newest tuner from DirecTV, the H20-600, works well for this. A new standalone OTA-only tuner that is excellent in multipath environments is the Samsung DTB H260F (http://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+h260f), available at Circuit City (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Customer-reviews-for-Samsung-HD-Tuner-DTB-H260F/sem/rpsm/oid/164855/rpem/ccd/productDetailReview.do) or online.I think I'll just be happy with KFSM,KHOG,KNWA,KFTA. Even though I still have some drop out. I just wondered why I couldn't pickup NBC in Springfield but could PBS. Thanks

Arxaw, Can you tell me why KNWA 51-01 and KFTA 51-02 are both NBC during the day? But at Night it's Fox? :confused:

Arxaw, Can you tell me why KNWA 51-01 and KFTA 51-02 are both NBC during the day? But at Night it's Fox? :confused:

KFTA is supposed to completely split from KNWA at some point. For now they're simulcasting until everything is finalized.

KFTA is supposed to completely split from KNWA at some point. For now they're simulcasting until everything is finalized.Ok Thanks, I just wasn't sure. I was worried about football :)

Anyone interested in the H260F I just took mine back to C.C. I figured out that my T.V. in the L.R. has a bad 2nd HDMI port and since I'm in the G.R. more than L.R. I.decided for the time being I didn't need it. FWIW it did a great job here in Cabool for what I wanted it for' but right now it was more an extra than a need.

Not that I know of.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for all the help! A couple more questions:
1)I hooked up an indoor antenna to my tv only and got fair reception. Will the Samsung TIR-451 pull in stations better than the tv which does not have a digital tuner? Still waiting on tuners arrival.
2)Is there a huge difference in the tuner I am getting and the new samsung tuner?
3)Is the new samsung digital tuner available in springfield anywhere?

KFTA is supposed to completely split from KNWA at some point. For now they're simulcasting until everything is finalized.Part of the delay is supposedly due to a legal challenge from the former (pitiful) Fox affiliate in NWA, KPBI over the switch to KFTA as the Fox affiliate.

Thanks for all the help! A couple more questions:
1)I hooked up an indoor antenna to my tv only and got fair reception. Will the Samsung TIR-451 pull in stations better than the tv which does not have a digital tuner?Impossible to tell. You'll just have to try it and see.

2)Is there a huge difference in the tuner I am getting and the new samsung tuner?According to other forum members, yes. See the Samsung 260F thread HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=728392).

3)Is the new samsung digital tuner available in springfield anywhere?Try Circuit City (http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=164855)

rhoops,

With most of the tower work being done for KOLR and KSFX, does bad weather cause much of a problem for installation?

or

Is most of the work now tweaking and inside stuff?

thanks

rhoops,

With most of the tower work being done for KOLR and KSFX, does bad weather cause much of a problem for installation?

or

Is most of the work now tweaking and inside stuff?

thanks

Work on the tower structure, antenna and transmission line is complete. The tower workers are now constructing an "ice bridge" to protect the antenna from falling ice. What remains to be done is completing the inside work.

Two HDTV transmitters and the associated RF system amount to a lot of equipment to be installed, connected and tested. An analogy might be building a car from a large crate of parts, but I think it's more like assembling a railroad locomotive from a large crate of parts.

It's not something you pull from a box, plug in, and turn on. The "official line" is an airdate between Christmas and New Years.

Thanks for the update.

Thanks to some posts over at another forum, my HR20 now has OTA enabled. I'm able to get everything BUT KOLR at this point.

There are still no plans to do a 10-2 or 27.2 at this point, correct? (If so, someone needs to let Tribune's programming and guide people know this ASAP so the HR20 can get it)

...There are still no plans to do a 10-2 or 27.2 at this point, correct?sneaky snooper, one can only hope. If true, KORL-DT & KSFX-DT will be the first true high def stations in the Springfield DMA. KYTV-DT & KOZK-DT do not have true HD-quality, due to multicasting.

(If so, someone needs to let Tribune's programming and guide people know this ASAP so the HR20 can get it)True.

rhoops, this is very important for people who use DirecTV HD receivers with built in OTA tuners. Some D* receivers do not use PSIP at all, and rely solely on local channel data received from D* to find a channel. If the station isn't in the D* guide (supplied by Tribune Media, the EPG provider for DirecTV), some D* receivers can't "see" the local OTA stations.

arxaw, E* does not use PSIP either but they do not show guide data for sub channels, only the main channel, do I understand you to say that D* has receivers that map the sub channel guide data?

I just heard that Mediacom has changed some settings on their Scopus IRD and are now decoding the KOLR / KSFX HD feeds properly.

Other than an occasional audio popping on Fox, things look good.

I expect them to put it on the cable very soon.

rhoops, any idea to what QAM channels they may show up on?

arxaw, E* does not use PSIP either but they do not show guide data for sub channels, only the main channel, do I understand you to say that D* has receivers that map the sub channel guide data?

Both my HR10 and HR20 show guide information for all the subchannels, including 21-1, 21-2 and 21-3 (as well as 3-1 3-2 and 3-3)

Since we know KWBM won't be signing a DT on anytime soon (unless they opt to flash cut), we can pretty well forget about 31-1. =)

I looked at the "All Channels" guide on my Samsung SIR-TS160 and (LG)DirecTV H20-600 receivers. Both are showing guide data for all sub channels on 3-n and 21-n.

KOLR-DT shows only 1 channel: 10-1
KSFX-DT shows only 1 channel: 27-1
That's a good thing.

Alright, FOXHD and CBSHD are back up on Mediacom but are not in HD. It looks like they are running in 480p stretched. I don't know why they would stretch the SD feed.

This looks terrible in my opinion and I hope they are just experimenting with things.

Rhoops, these channels are going to be in HD on mediacom right? Not just the digital SD feed stretched?

I'm sure they are still just testing things out.

Yeah i'm also getting fox and CBS in HD on mediacom, my TV says they are 1920x1080i.... but they look like just regular 480i quality, it is better quality than the analog channels but they better not be trying to pass off this cropped down-res. stuff as HD

It appears 52 (KOLR DT) is off air Can anyone confirm this yet, my HR10 was getting a 10-20% from it in downtown but gets ZERO atm. I'm getting 60% or so from KSFX, so go figure..

(Could this mean what I think it does!?) :-D

rhoops,

Help! Can you tell your mediacom contact that whatever they did/are doing to their QAM digital channels is screwing viewers up? I now can not tune ANY digital channels, via QAM. I was doing scans last night, picking up the usual suspects but no CBS or FOX yet. Then I did one final scan before bed, and I got zero digital QAM channels! :eek:

Thought I'd give it a try this morning, and it is the same thing. It would be just my luck if mediacom were to finally get CBS and FOX in HD, but then decided to somehow change the format that they deliver these channels, and I could not receive them... :( I can still tune their basic cable analog channels, just no QAM.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

lawdawg,

They won't be changing the QAM format. That is standard for cable carriage. They may be remapping channels to different numbers.

Alright, FOXHD and CBSHD are back up on Mediacom but are not in HD. It looks like they are running in 480p stretched. I don't know why they would stretch the SD feed.

This looks terrible in my opinion and I hope they are just experimenting with things.

Rhoops, these channels are going to be in HD on mediacom right? Not just the digital SD feed stretched?

I'm sure they are still just testing things out.

Last night we had a problem with inputs to the Dolby 5.1 encoder. It was not getting channels 5 and 6 ( Left Surround and Right Surround ). This effectively killed the encoder. Reverting to two channel sound gave us left and right surround, but no center channel audio, and thus no dialog. Commercials sounded OK, but the 5.1 program went silent.

At that point I had no choice but to bring the audio back by going to upconverted SD. Of course, local and syndicated programming will be in upconverted SD. Only network HDTV programming will be in true HD.

The banner at the opening of a show says "Presented in HDTV" on the true HD channel and "Available in HDTV" if we're in upconverted SD.

Last night I kept scanning Mediacom for QAM channels, at home and at work, but never found KSFX/KOLR. I still can't find them on open QAM. I 'hear' them on on channel 702 and 709 on an SD TV with Mediacom box.

Channel 28 and 52 are still on the air low power SD digital. The full power transmitters will hit air sometime between Christmas and New Years.

52 for some reason I can NOT pick up even a blip from. I just get a 0 signal from it, but get a nice high 60s from KSFX's 28 xmitr.

I just did a QAM scan of Mediacom and got KFSX on 62-1, KOLR on 62-2.

KYTV is still on 16-1, but is also on 18-3 now (with no audio at the moment).

I think they are re-mapping the channels.

Good, I'm glad once you guys fix the issues with the sound the channels will be in HD. I was worried there for a moment :)

But I do want to ask about the stretching of non HD content on the channels. Are you guys sending the feed stretched out to Mediacom, or is Mediacom stretching it?

In my opinion stretched standard def programming doesn't look good at all and I don't see why anyone would want to view an image that is distorted from the actual image.

If someone does want to stretch it, they have that option on their TV.

... If someone does want to stretch it, they have that option on their TV.
I agree w/ jordanzelda23. Let the viewer do the stretching, if they want it. Once a program is stretched by the provider, most viewers have no way to fix the distorted image.

Hopefully, it's the cableco doing this and not the stations. Virtually all stations now send out all programming in the original aspect ratio; including 4:3 w sidebars to fill out the 16:9 frame.

OK. We found the problem with audio channels 5 and 6 and the Dolby 5.1 encoder is working like it should. Rudolph was 2 channel, but CSI and Shark should be full HDTV with Dolby 5.1.

What do you Mediacom viewers think? Any outlying areas that are getting KOLR / KFSX in HD?

We should hit full power OTA sometime next week!

OK. We found the problem with audio channels 5 and 6 and the Dolby 5.1 encoder is working like it should. Rudolph was 2 channel, but CSI and Shark should be full HDTV with Dolby 5.1.

What do you Mediacom viewers think? Any outlying areas that are getting KOLR / KFSX in HD?

We should hit full power OTA sometime next week!
Nothing OTA in south Springfield.

Media com seems to have moved some channels around, and I think they mights still be doing so. I've done QAM scans through the night, and the channels come and go... Hopefully they will straighten things out, soon. Otherwise I might be investing in an antenna.

Looked good on Mediacom Cable last night, when will you add the 2 channels to the HDTV group in the guide?

Thanks so much, and happy holidays!

Andy

Someone fill me in.

Why will we not be getting KSPR in HD any time soon?

Someone fill me in.

Why will we not be getting KSPR in HD any time soon?

It's all about money. KSPR doesn't have any. KYTV will be "adopting" this poor orphan, but won't kick in the big bucks required to bring OTA HDTV to fruition until or unless the federal authorites approve the deal.

Mediacom does have KSPR in HD, but the low power OTA DTV is standard definition.

I agree w/ jordanzelda23. Let the viewer do the stretching, if they want it. Once a program is stretched by the provider, most viewers have no way to fix the distorted image.

Hopefully, it's the cableco doing this and not the stations. Virtually all stations now send out all programming in the original aspect ratio; including 4:3 w sidebars to fill out the 16:9 frame.

So let it be written! So let it be done! The Squeaky wheel gets the grease. We're changing the upconverters on both stations to keep 4:3 on SD content.

So let it be written! So let it be done! The Squeaky wheel gets the grease. We're changing the upconverters on both stations to keep 4:3 on SD content.

This is great, just wish KY3 would quit stretching the CW network. I might watch some of it if they did.
Please bring us full power HD (OTA) for 10 and 27 next week.

OK. We found the problem with audio channels 5 and 6 and the Dolby 5.1 encoder is working like it should. Rudolph was 2 channel, but CSI and Shark should be full HDTV with Dolby 5.1.

What do you Mediacom viewers think? Any outlying areas that are getting KOLR / KFSX in HD?

We should hit full power OTA sometime next week!

What channels should we be tuning into on our OTA receivers?

I am still confused on this issue.

thanks

...We're changing the upconverters on both stations to keep 4:3 on SD content.rhoops, THANKS. That's how almost every other station in the country handles 4:3. OAR and let the viewer stretch if desired.

If filling the screen is important to a viewer, they should make sure the TV they buy can stretch or zoom 1080i & 720p.

What channels should we be tuning into on our OTA receivers?KOLR-DT will be broadcasting on RF channel 52.
KSFX-DT will be broadcasting on RF channel 28.

Assuming the stations remap to their old analog channel numbers like most do, they should display in your channel list as:
KOLR-DT 10-1
KSFX-DT 27-1

You may have to do a channel re-scan to pick up the channels, once they are on the air.

rhoops,
Does KOLR-DT still plan to move back to VHF channel 10 in 2009?

So let it be written! So let it be done! The Squeaky wheel gets the grease. We're changing the upconverters on both stations to keep 4:3 on SD content.

Awesome. Thanks rhoops.

1 more question. Are these 2 channels not going to be sending out a 5.1 signal to Mediacom? I think you said something about this before but I was a little confused.

I know KSPR HD and KY3 HD both have dolby digital sound through mediacom(on the programs that support it).

Awesome. Thanks rhoops.

1 more question. Are these 2 channels not going to be sending out a 5.1 signal to Mediacom? I think you said something about this before but I was a little confused.

I know KSPR HD and KY3 HD both have dolby digital sound through mediacom(on the programs that support it).

The signal that Mediacom is getting is well upstream of our Dolby encoder, and I'm not clear on the details. They are taking a DVB-ASI ( Digital Video Broadcast - Asynchronous Serial Interface) signal on a coax. It has Dolby-E embedded in it and consists of 8 AES-EBU audio pairs.

In other words, they have everything there is on the content, including metadata.

Possible content includes Left, Center, Right, Left Surround, Right Surround, LFE, and two additional channels, which could be a second language or decriptive narration for the visually impaired.

rhoops,
Does KOLR-DT still plan to move back to VHF channel 10 in 2009?

They will move back to channel 10 whenever analog goes dark. All channels above 50 will be re-allocated to other services. I wouldn't bet on the Feb 2009 date though.

What exactly do you guys mean about stretching 4:3?
I personally do not like how KY3 handles 4:3 on 3-1 with the mandatory pillarboxes. I prefer how 3-2, 3-3, 21-1 and 21-2 are somehow flagged as 4:3 so my TV uses its own pillarboxes. It's a small detail, but it lets me choose my own pillarbox color so I can avoid burn-in on my plasma. Black pillarboxes hasn't been a problem for 2yrs, but who knows if my plasma may wear unevenly after 5yrs or so (I personally hate zoom or stretching because I like all my 4:3 pillarboxed). At any rate, I prefer the ability to control the pillarbox color. Is this related to the stretching thing that's being discussed?

I had always figured 3-1 has mandatory pillarboxing because there's no flag sent to tell the TV to tell it whether content is 4:3 or 16:9, but instead the entire channel is either 4:3 or 16:9 no matter what the content is. What is actually the case?

What channels should we be tuning into on our OTA receivers?

I am still confused on this issue.

thanks

There is no OTA HDTV from KOLR / KSFX at this time. What is on the air now is low power standard definition DTV.

We expect full power HDTV to hit the air around New Year's day. KSFX will be on RF channel 28 but your tuner will show it as 27-1. KOLR will be on RF channel 52, but your tuner will show it as 10-1. If you don't pick up the present transmitters, you'll need to do a re-scan to let your tuner find the new transmitters when they are active.

What exactly do you guys mean about stretching 4:3?
I personally do not like how KY3 handles 4:3 on 3-1 with the mandatory pillarboxes. I prefer how 3-2, 3-3, 21-1 and 21-2 are somehow flagged as 4:3 so my TV uses its own pillarboxes. It's a small detail, but it lets me choose my own pillarbox color so I can avoid burn-in on my plasma. Black pillarboxes hasn't been a problem for 2yrs, but who knows if my plasma may wear unevenly after 5yrs or so (I personally hate zoom or stretching because I like all my 4:3 pillarboxed). At any rate, I prefer the ability to control the pillarbox color. Is this related to the stretching thing that's being discussed?

I had always figured 3-1 has mandatory pillarboxing because there's no flag sent to tell the TV to tell it whether content is 4:3 or 16:9, but instead the entire channel is either 4:3 or 16:9 no matter what the content is. What is actually the case?

What you perceive as a "flag" is probably a memory setting on your TV set. I'm thinking your TV set will recall the aspect ratio setting that you've previously chosen with each channnel. There are lots of different aspect ratio modes that you can choose from. Read your manual and pick whatever pleases you. Do that for each channel and change it as you like.

An HDTV station has a 16:9 shaped "canvas" to put the picture on. The question is what to do whan the content is 4:3. Stretch to fill distorts the picture in a way that can't be reversed. Another choice would be to cut the top and bottom of the picture so that the 4:3 picture fills your 16:9 screen. That's also a bad choice.

Transmitting 4:3 content without stretching horizontally, or cutting the top and bottom to make it fit is the best option.

My encoder actually has 21 different modes to choose from on this, in addition to custom user settings. (One of the stranger ones is 13:9 Stretch to 16:9 Top and Bottom cut).

The one I've chosen is "4:3 to 4:3 side panel on 16:9". I've choosen a black side panel, but could put any color there.

By the way 21-2 is in 16:9, so if you see it as 4:3 you're probably cutting off the top and bottom. 3-2, 3-3, 21-1 and 21-3 are transmitted in 4:3 because they are standard definition.

so, what are the QAM channels I should be looking for? My Panny TV did a scan, but I cannot preview the cahnnels, and it picked up a TON of channels digitally. KY and KSPR have disappeared, and I cannot locatre them

What you perceive as a "flag" is probably a memory setting on your TV set. I'm thinking your TV set will recall the aspect ratio setting that you've previously chosen with each channnel. There are lots of different aspect ratio modes that you can choose from. Read your manual and pick whatever pleases you. Do that for each channel and change it as you like.

An HDTV station has a 16:9 shaped "canvas" to put the picture on. The question is what to do whan the content is 4:3. Stretch to fill distorts the picture in a way that can't be reversed. Another choice would be to cut the top and bottom of the picture so that the 4:3 picture fills your 16:9 screen. That's also a bad choice.

Transmitting 4:3 content without stretching horizontally, or cutting the top and bottom to make it fit is the best option.

My encoder actually has 21 different modes to choose from on this, in addition to custom user settings. (One of the stranger ones is 13:9 Stretch to 16:9 Top and Bottom cut).

The one I've chosen is "4:3 to 4:3 side panel on 16:9". I've choosen a black side panel, but could put any color there.

By the way 21-2 is in 16:9, so if you see it as 4:3 you're probably cutting off the top and bottom. 3-2, 3-3, 21-1 and 21-3 are transmitted in 4:3 because they are standard definition.

I think maybe you've misunderstood what I was asking.
I noticed that SD channels 3-2, 3-3, 21-1 and 21-3 are 4:3 and my TV knows it, it automatically pillarboxes those channels as per my requested setting. However, 4:3 SD content on 3-1 is sent as 16:9 with its own pillarboxing, so I can't use my own settings. So does that mean HD channels are always a fixed 16:9 and the broadcaster must add their own pillarboxing to make 4:3 content the correct aspect ratio? There is no way for the broadcaster to send the 4:3 content sans pillarboxes and somehow tell the TV, "hey, this is 4:3" and then the TV will treat it the same as the other 4:3 DTV channels?