thanks for the very quick help, guys.

I will get home and try a few things and see what I can do. If it's as simple as plugging in my antenna...I'm stoked!

Is anything being done to fix the KSFX, 622vip problems rhoops? Seems like if I can keep my signal between 65 and 70% it is pretty good, but that is such a fine line to keep with weather conditions. Not sure who's problem it is, but seems like everything I read brings it to the station,KSFX. If you have any info please keep us informed, thanks.

Is anything being done to fix the KSFX, 622vip problems rhoops? Seems like if I can keep my signal between 65 and 70% it is pretty good, but that is such a fine line to keep with weather conditions. Not sure who's problem it is, but seems like everything I read brings it to the station,KSFX. If you have any info please keep us informed, thanks.

I haven't heard anything in weeks, but our transmitter exciter manufacturer is in contact with Dish and they are working on the problem. What will be required to fix the problem is a firmware upgrade for either your VIP-622 or our exciter or both. We can do exactly what you can do...... Wait for the solution and a firmware upgrade.

I haven't heard anything in weeks, but our transmitter exciter manufacturer is in contact with Dish and they are working on the problem. What will be required to fix the problem is a firmware upgrade for either your VIP-622 or our exciter or both. We can do exactly what you can do...... Wait for the solution and a firmware upgrade.

Thanks very much, thats what I wanted to know if someone was even working on this. I feel like there is a good chance we will have our local HD channels on satellite before years end, that will help with the problem.

I recorded the Daytona 500 Sunday and never hardley had a glitch in it. My signal was around 66%.

...I will get home and try a few things and see what I can do. If it's as simple as plugging in my antenna...I'm stoked!In addition to just connecting the antenna, you must enter your ZIP Code in the DirecTV local setup menu for OTA (antenna) channels. You must also do a channel scan for local OTA (antenna) channels from the setup menu.

In addition to just connecting the antenna, you must enter your ZIP Code in the DirecTV local setup menu for OTA (antenna) channels. You must also do a channel scan for local OTA (antenna) channels from the setup menu.


Thanks.

The signal seems to be coming in great for all the stations besides KSPR 33-1. I get nothing for that station. Any idea why everything would be coming in crystal clear besides that 1 channel?

The signal seems to be coming in great for all the stations besides KSPR 33-1. I get nothing for that station. Any idea why everything would be coming in crystal clear besides that 1 channel?
KSPR is broadcasting low power from their downtown studios. Everyone else is broadcasting full power from Fordland (where your antenna is likely pointed).

KSPR-DT is also SD only so far, so you're not missing anything.

KSPR-DT (19-1 or 33-1) is authorized to broadcast from a tower at Fordland with 1000kW of power, and a tower height of 1800'.

But they are currently only broadcasting from their studios with ~2kw of power and a tower height of only 240'.

So, unless you live very near the station, don't expect to receive them. And like MrBeReady said, you ain't missing anything, since their OTA signal is not even HD yet.

anyone getting the Acadamy awards in HD?? trying to catch it on 33-1. Online guide lists in on 19-1, but my TV will default back to 33-1.

Wait, just read the post above mine. Someone deserves to be smacked for no HD OTA.

I am currently in Nevada Missouri, Do I have any chance of picking up the Joplin/Pitts channels in HD or am im only dreaming? The directv installer who was here on friday and installed my hr20 mentioned he gets them with a preamp on his antenna and lives in town as well.

With the right gear you should be able to pick them up. Check out antennaweb.org to see how you look.

On another note I'm all up for a fix asap. I have an amplified antenna so I can turn it down. I can get 10 watchable in the 60-70% range but then 27 is horrible since it has a lower signal to begin with.

I know Dish is supposed to release a new firmware upgrade on March 1st for our 622's. We'll see if it actually happens.

Enter the station call letters at:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html
On the results page, click on the DT or DS service results and then Service Contour map to see if you're within range of the pitifully weak Joplin stations.

DT shows the allotted power for a full power station. If the results also show DS, that is a Special Temporary Authority to broadcast at low power. Use the DS results, if listed.

I just took a look at that link for KSPR. Should I be trying to pick up their HD on 33-1 or 19-1?

I live off from Calhoun and Kansas expwy here in Springfield.

Whichever comes in but KSPR is not sending out anything in HD yet and is not at full power. Hopefully soon now that KY3 owns them.

Whichever comes in but KSPR is not sending out anything in HD yet and is not at full power. Hopefully soon now that KY3 owns them.

Has KY3 got the final approval from the FCC to buy them now? I sure hope the get full power HD going before they start showing nascar.

Has KY3 got the final approval from the FCC to buy them now? I sure hope the get full power HD going before they start showing nascar.

The FCC records still show Piedmont as the licensee. When that is changed to Perkin Media, the deal will be done. KYTV has the "non-FCC" part of the business and is operating the station, but the FCC license hasn't transferred.

The possible hitch is that this combination would give one entity control of ABC, NBC and CW networks. Despite the rise of Fox, CW and MyNetwork, it's still the "big three" (CBS, NBC, ABC) that matter.

KMIZ in Columbia has ABC, Fox and MyNetwork, and of course KOLR / KSPR has CBS and Fox.

If there are cities where one entity has control of two of the big three, it's probably one where there are several independents or stong minor network affiliates.

Because of this uncertainty, KYTV is unlikely to commit funds for anything other than planning to this project until this license / control issue is resolved in their favor.

Has KY3 got the final approval from the FCC to buy them now? I sure hope the get full power HD going before they start showing nascar.

I received an email from KY3 engineer and he indicated it would take approximately 1 year after license approval to get to OTA digital/HD.

they better hurry. analog shuts down in less than 2 years.

I received an email from KY3 engineer and he indicated it would take approximately 1 year after license approval to get to OTA digital/HD.


So that doesn't sound too promicing then.

Ok, thanks for the info. Looks like one of them overlaps nevada and the other three nevada is just about 3 or 4 miles outside of the circle. On these will I be able to pick them up. I have read about adding an amp to your antenna. What is this? Can someone link me to an amp that would work for what im needing plz.

Here is an example of the furthest one from me to give you an idea of what I might need.

fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DS695908.html

WTH is KOZK doing? This is ridiculous.

WTH is KOZK doing? This is ridiculous.

OK, I see 21-4 an SD with color bars. I don't know what they are planning, but I do know they use a Terayon Cherrypicker which uses statistical multiplexing. It's a pretty sophisticated box.

Here's something from Terayon's website:

--
Using the industry’s leading rate shaping and statistical remultiplexing technology, easily combine SD and HD streams into one or more ATSC- or DVB-compliant multicast streams. Dynamically optimize the bit rates of each individual stream to maintain the highest possible picture quality of each program.

WTH is KOZK doing? This is ridiculous.

I asked Don White the senior engineer over there and he says:

" 21-4 is used on the 4th Wed of the month for a program to schools that are having troubles. Should be gone by the time you get home."

WTH is KOZK doing? This is ridiculous.
I assume you are talking about 21-4. To expand on the info rhoops posted...

Once a month OPT produces a live educational program for rural school teachers and broadcasts it via 21-4 to the schools.

21-4 is added to the multiplex a couple hours in advance so the participating schools have time to set up their receivers and rescan for the new channel. 21-4 is removed from the multiplex shortly after the program ends.

This project has been going on for a while. If you are an OPT member and have your February Program Guide handy, this is the program Arlen Diamond mentioned in his Generally Speaking column.

cnmsales,
The Channel Master CM7777 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm) is an excellent preamp, and comes highly rated on this forum. I've used one for years.

If you're on the fringe, don't waste time & money on cheapie Rat Shack or wallyworld amps. Get a good low noise preamp if you want something that might help.

kozk looks like krap

kozk looks like krap

I agree that KOZK's picture quality is sub-standard for a hi-def public tv channel. I understand the need to simulcast the SD and HD channels, and even that there is apparently a public need for 21-4 on rare occasions, but why must we further degrade the picture quality with the useless 21-3 "cooking" channel. For pete's sake, there are a multitude of similar home/cooking/travel-type channels on cable - what possible public service is being done by this silly waste of public airwaves and digital bandwidth?

Could we get a poll of everyone who watches 21-3 and would prefer to keep it versus having a higher quality video signal on 21-2?

I also do not understand why KOZK's HD feed is not being broadcast on an unencrypted QAM channel (mapped to 721 perhaps?) by Mediacom. Is there some problem I haven't read about preventing this from happening?

Wow...four subchannels? I don't care what kind of encoder they have...you can't create bandwidth from thin air!

If you think that is bad, I found out a station in Alexandria, Louisiana is getting one of these new encoders, and they are going to be broadcasting TWO 1080i feeds on the same channel. KALB 5.1 is going to be NBC 1080i, and 5.2 is going to be CBS 1080i.... I can't wait to see what this disaster will look like.... imagine trying to watch a football game on that channel!

I think if KOZK is going to use 21.3 they should bring back PBSKIDS. I don't have kids at home anymore but if did it would be a great channel for them.

I think if KOZK is going to use 21.3 they should bring back PBSKIDS. I don't have kids at home anymore but if did it would be a great channel for them.
The PBS Kids packaged channel is no longer offered by PBS to its member stations. It was discontinued some time ago.

There is a new service called Sprout that already launched or is launching soon or something, but it is geared more toward very young kids (pre-school) and I haven't heard much more about it lately.

Edit: Ah, found it: about Sprout (http://www.sproutonline.com/about.html).

I tried to watch Criminal Minds on 10-1 OTA last night and had many moments of pixilization. They were only a couple of seconds each but dialogue was lost and they were irritating. Anyone else notice this or was it just my setup?

Do you have some contacts that can remove their attenuators on the DISH tuners that wouldn't work without them? I have a viewer that said their tuner started working yesterday & I know for a fact that DISH updated the firmware on all the tuners due to the time change. Let me know if you can find out anything. Thanks.

David Smith
Chief Engineer
KOLR-TV/DT
417-862-1010

I can't keep a steady signal on any of my tuners for channel 27 today. My dish 921 seems to hold the signal better than the other tuners, but it still goes to zero. Even my Sony SXRD can't hold the signal. I only have the attenuater on my 622 and it is doing as good as the other tuners.Channel 3 and 21 is ok, some break up on channel 10.

Questions about DirecTv.

Anyone else notice NGHC going up?

NGHC?

Yep, NGHC showing in the guide. First program listed 3/6 1:30am

Last weekend I updated my system with a HR20-700. On it, KODE-DT doesn't even show a signal. Nothing has changed on the HR10-250, KODE-DT does come in, but eventually locks it up. The HR20-700 may have a better tuner as KOAM-DT is coming in much more reliably with a signal of about 40%

What is NGHC?

National Geographic HighDefinition Channel on DirecTv.

Speculatively part time for now.

Thanks.

Speaking of DirecTV, if you have a DirecTV H20 (non-DVR) receiver, there is a window tonight and tomorrow night to manually download an update for your receiver. This update supposedly has some bug fixes and adds the DirecTV interactive features found on other receivers.

This is not a national update and is AYOR. Details and instructions over at DBSTalk dot com, HERE (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=81338).

Wow, what's up with 21-2 right now? I was flipping channels just now and when I hit 21-2 the Panasonic locked up and showed a green screen with some vertical stripes, and wouldn't change channels. I turned it off then on and 21-2 came on again, the TV made a popping noise the locked up again and went blank. When I turned it off then on again, I hit the down channel button before 21-2 came on and 21-1 was fine. All other digital channels are okay, but the minute I hit 21-2 the TV freaks out.

When I tried the Sanyo, when I go to 21-2, it goes blank, then switches to 3-1 (my initial channel). What's up?

That popping noise has me worried. Is it possible for a digital broadcast to harm a TV?

Wow, what's up with 21-2 right now? [...] That popping noise has me worried. Is it possible for a digital broadcast to harm a TV?
A Dolby audio encoder apparently went berserk and messed up the audio stream of 21-2. The offending encoder was reset at 11:15 so try it again and all should be well.

I don't know that a digital broadcast can permanently 'harm' a TV... but unexpected/invalid data can confuse receivers/tuners/decoders. This particular audio problem locked up audio decoding on two different Samsung receivers tuned to 21-2, and probably also tuners of other brands. Power-cycling fixed it, and I have yet to see a DTV stream cause a receiver problem that couldn't be fixed by tuning to a different channel and back, or sometimes power cycling the receiver (assuming the stream problem had been fixed).

But there's a first time for everything!

Bad data will also confuse some DirecTV/OTA receivers causing them to lockup. Requires a hard reboot with antenna disconnected to fix the problem.

I noticed the firmware update on Dish. The HD menus have a nice refreshing look now. I attached my antenna to my 211 again today and Have not had a problem yet. I'll have to see what happens during Prison Break Tomorrow. I hope the problem is solved.

Anyone try an HD signal through the Receiver after the Firmware update yet?

Take this for what it's worth (since I did not attempt this before the firmware update) but I tried using the Vip622 last night to carry my OTA signal and had lots of problems.

Up to this point, I've just let my panny do the tuning and had no problems. Using the Dish reciever however, I was able to scan and find the same channels, only to find that the new connection/signal would repeatably cause the 622 to lock-up, go to a black screen and eventually require a front-panel reboot.

When the antenna coax was removed, everything returned to normal.

I tried watching 24 last night with my antenna attached to my 211. I thought it looked fine until it started getting really "Laggy or Jumpy" kind of like watching a skipping dvd.

I'm sitting at 100% signal so I might try getting it down to the 70s.

Seems like channel 10 is giving me more trouble now than 27 with audio drop outs and skipping. The other day I couldn't keep a lock on 10 or 27 with any of my tuners when it was very windy. My sister-in-law who has a 622 also says when the wind is so strong she can't keep a lock on 10 or 27 either. I have no problem with 3 or 21 on these windy days. Its not our signal strength because it is very good but just drops to 0.

Aren't KYTV & KOZK's antennas higher than KOLR & KSFX's are? That might have something to do with the multipath problems on windy days (lower tower height = more swaying tree limbs between you and the towers).

Aren't KYTV & KOZK's antennas higher than KOLR & KSFX's are? That might have something to do with the multipath problems on windy days (lower tower height = more swaying tree limbs between you and the towers).

So is this what you think my problem is, multipathing? I sure don't have a line-of- site, and my sister-in-law is also looking into trees. Whatever type of signal 3 and 21 are sending, my tuners works better with.

I'm building a new house that I hope to be in, in 2 or 3 months that may help me some. It will raise me maybe 50 to 100' higher and no trees. Still may not be a line-of-site to the towers.

So is this what you think my problem is, multipathing? I sure don't have a line-of- site, and my sister-in-law is also looking into trees. Whatever type of signal 3 and 21 are sending, my tuners works better with.Most likely multipath, if you're having problems in the wind. I'm pretty sure that 3 & 21's towers are higher.

The Dish OTA tuners are not the best in the world at dealing with multipath, either. You could try a standalone tuner like the Samsung DTB H260F to see if it helped matters. If not, just return it to CC or BestBuy (or wherever they're available now).

Just checked 10&27 from my 622 tuner when I came in tonight and 27 is working great and I saw 1 little skip on 10. Next time the wind blows hard I'm checking just to see if the wind is alot of my trouble.

Thanks for all your help arxaw, you are very helpful to alot of us on here.

I'm wondering how this works... My understanding is, in order to receive distant-network HD feeds (out of NY, LA, etc. via DirectTV) you have to have a waiver from your local affiliates. Now, I also understood that for the local affiliates to agree to your waiver you have to be UNABLE to receive local channels already.

How is it, then, that folks with DirectTV (i know 2 in particular) are able to receive their locals (SD) as well as the Distant Feeds in HD???

If you subscribe to local SD channels, but have waivers or live in an area where waivers aren't needed, you can get the HD feeds from NY at no charge.

Example, Eureka Springs, AR is in the Springfield DMA and D* subs living there can get Springfield SD locals on D*. However most addresses in downtown Eureka Springs also qualify for the HD networks from NY - no waivers needed to get the HD networks from NY. The only requirement is that your address qualifes and you sub to local SD channels on D*.

For an example, enter Eureka Springs City Hall's address
HERE (http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressForm.aspx).
44 S Main St. Eureka Springs AR 72632-3639

Some people change their service address to an address that qualifies for HD networks. They keep their mailing address where they actually live, so their bill will come to the right place. This is called "moving" and there are some risks involved....

RAYNOR,
Depending on terrain, it's quite possible that your address qualifies (http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressForm.aspx) for HD nets.

Thanks for all the info... I had originally assumed that as long as they provided your locals (in SD or HD) you wouldn't be eligible for the DNS feeds. Looks like I had that wrong -- as long as they don't offer your local-major networks IN HD and you meet the other requirements (non-metro area, 70 miles from towers, etc.) you can get the HD feeds from NY.

Thanks again for the info.

Hello everyone, new here and I hope this isnt off-topic. What is the best HD service provider in springfield? I just got a 50" plasma hdtv and got the mediacom hdtv box and the 8 or so channels that are in high def look good for the most part. Any suggestions on other services or hd providers?


Also, are there any good plasma tv calibrators out there? Any service guys that do that?

Thanks for all the info... I had originally assumed that as long as they provided your locals (in SD or HD) you wouldn't be eligible for the DNS feeds. Looks like I had that wrong -- as long as they don't offer your local-major networks IN HD and you meet the other requirements (non-metro area, 70 miles from towers, etc.) you can get the HD feeds from NY. RAYNOR,
Did your address qualify?

Hello everyone, new here and I hope this isnt off-topic. What is the best HD service provider in springfield? I just got a 50" plasma hdtv and got the mediacom hdtv box and the 8 or so channels that are in high def look good for the most part. Any suggestions on other services or hd providers?


Also, are there any good plasma tv calibrators out there? Any service guys that do that?


I would recommend Dish Network, They have about 20 HD channels. Use an Antenna to pick up your locals in High Def (Looks better than Media Com's feed)

rhoops if your still watching, has 27 done something different, I can't lock in 27 on my tv tuner or my 921 dish receiver. At first when you went full power these were my best tuners. My 622 and my 942 will lock on 27, all other channels are good signal on all tuners.

Just to ad what TheShackMan says, I believe dish has 31 HD channels now.

Last night on my 622 I noticed 10 and 27 were coming in much better. Signal was around 70% for both.

I'll play with it some tonight.

27 would go out occasionally but would quickly come back. It seemed to get worse when the local news came on.

Yesterday while watching the NCAA bracket show on 10 (OTA) the audio dropouts were very bad, very distracting.

Yesterday while watching the NCAA bracket show on 10 (OTA) the audio dropouts were very bad, very distracting.

KARK, our sister station in Little Rock, has sent us their "stream recorder". This is the tool we've been needing to capture and analyze the problems. I hope this tool will allow us to diagnose and fix the problem.

Hello everyone, new here and I hope this isnt off-topic. What is the best HD service provider in springfield? I just got a 50" plasma hdtv and got the mediacom hdtv box and the 8 or so channels that are in high def look good for the most part. Any suggestions on other services or hd providers?


Also, are there any good plasma tv calibrators out there? Any service guys that do that?

Dish Network for sure. Trust me Ive had all three and I miss my Dish Network HD. I have DirecTV now because Dish Network pissed me off over a screwed up bill they sent (long story) but now I regret switching. DirecTV's HD doesnt even look like true HD, many people refer to it as "HD-Lite". Mediacom's HD looks a little better than DirecTV's but still not as good as Dish Network. Dish has the most HD channels as well.

I agree with Chaotic that Dish has the best HD.

If your not into sports I would hold off on HD all together. Even with all the channels dish had I never watched it because there wasn't ever anything on.

And when a good movie was on it was years old.

I thought I'd be cool but I just canceled it...I just didn't watch it ever.

Know if they ever get USA HD,SCIFI HD,TBS HD etc I'd probably come back as I watch some shows off there. But for now OTA is the cheapest and the way to go.

We watch enough network tv and it's just that much better in HD:) And free:)

rhoops,

Good luck with the audio troubleshooting.

rhoops,

Good luck with the audio troubleshooting.

Thanks! We're going to need some luck. The "Stream Recorder" is a rack mount PC that came with no peripherals or books. It's got several "extra" cards in the PCI slots. Nothing to do but hook it up and see what it looks like. It looks like a fairly steep learning curve.

Interesting read from dolby labs:
http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/AES5900.pdf

Sounds like a lot of stations' problems may be pilot error.

Can someone explain this. I moved my TV this weekend, I couldn't get CBS 10.1 to come in at all.

I have a full sized antenna in my attic and I live on a hill on the south east side of Nixa. I get all other HD channels including 27.1 at 87-93% signal strength. Now Dish has some modulation thing going on to run the Dish and Antenna signal via the same coax. This doesn't seem to effect any of the other channels so I don't know if it would effect the CBS signal.

I unplugged the coax from the wall, thinking I would try a different cable, when I touched the end of the coax, boom perfect signal. So I'm a better antenna then the huge antenna in my attic? Why would that happen? I tried several different cables and nothing seems to hold the signal for very long. Moving the coax away from the power seems to help but not for long.

Any ideas. suggestions?

Can someone explain this. I moved my TV this weekend, I couldn't get CBS 10.1 to come in at all.

I have a full sized antenna in my attic and I live on a hill on the south east side of Nixa. I get all other HD channels including 27.1 at 87-93% signal strength. Now Dish has some modulation thing going on to run the Dish and Antenna signal via the same coax. This doesn't seem to effect any of the other channels so I don't know if it would effect the CBS signal.

I unplugged the coax from the wall, thinking I would try a different cable, when I touched the end of the coax, boom perfect signal. So I'm a better antenna then the huge antenna in my attic? Why would that happen? I tried several different cables and nothing seems to hold the signal for very long. Moving the coax away from the power seems to help but not for long.

Any ideas. suggestions?
When you say you moved it, did you move it to another antenna outlet, and was 10.1 okay before?

Same outlet, but the TV is hanging on the wall now, before it was sitting on a shelf, that is about the only difference. Hard to explain... HERE:

Before (http://flickr.com/photos/amesenbrink/424083872/in/photostream/)

After (http://flickr.com/photos/amesenbrink/425570457/)

So no real change in the placement of the TV or the way the cord runs, I just moved the box/outlet to the new wall.

So is everyone's channel 10.1 having pretty bad audio dropouts now? Because I've been trying to watch the ncaa games and the audio messes up like every minute or so. My signal is at about 88%.

So is everyone's channel 10.1 having pretty bad audio dropouts now? Because I've been trying to watch the ncaa games and the audio messes up like every minute or so. My signal is at about 88%.

We've got the stream recorder working now and have found where the problem is. It's a buffer overflow in the Dolby AC-3 stream. We still have a bit of work to do to find the cure, but we know "where it hurts".

We may have to constrict the bandwidth to help with troubleshooting and this will make things worse while under test.

Our monitoring point is the ASI stream out of the Tandberg Encoder, and we see the problem there. That means the STL microwave and the transmitter get a clean bill of health.

Now we go to Tandberg and Dolby tech support and play the usual game of "it's not our box that's causing the problem, it's the other guy's box".

Keep in mind that while we are experiencing some "growing pains", we are endeavoring to do what no one else in the market is doing.... Delivering a full bandwidth 1080i picture with Dolby 5.1 audio. When we get it right, it will be as good as it is anywhere.

We've now narrowed the problem down to a device that converts the ASI stream to SMPTE 310 after it comes out of the Tandberg Encoder and before it goes to the STL.

We don't know if changing some parameters will fix the problem or not.

I find it very promising that we have a point where there is no problem and another point where we see the problem.

rhoops,
glad you've narrowed it down.

am_pcguy,
Were you dish and antenna feeds diplexed onto the same coax before you started having the problem with KOLR-DT?

Yes the only change is the placement of the TV. It seems that fiddleing with the coax that goes into the TV will make it better or worse. Right now it seems to be about what mattzane227 described, audio dropouts and some artifacts every couple minutes.

If that's what everyone is getting right now, then I won't worry about it right now.

I will say this when it's working it's the best HD picture I've seen, when it's not that makes it that much more frustrating. :)

If the problem's just on KOLR-DT, you might wait until they get the current problems fixed with the station, and see how things go.

Thanks for the info Rhoops, even though most of it was way over my head.

Thanks for the info Rhoops, even though most of it was way over my head.

In simplest terms think of a chain with about 10 links in it. One of the links is bad and we know which one it is. What is to be determined is whether some adjustment of settings on that box can fix things or we need to replace the box or do something else.

What's good to know is the rest of the chain is just fine.

Well, David Smith, the chief engineer made a call to France and the manufacturer of the ASI-SMPTE310 converter.

The indication was that a FIFO (first in first out - also known as a bucket brigade) buffer was overflowing.

The solution was ridiculously simple...... if the buffer is filling up and overflowing you must simply reduce the input data rate to be lower than the output data rate. DUH!

So we did that around noon Thursday and I haven't seen or heard a hiccup since.

Did that fix it for once and all? Only you, the viewers, can say!

Reports appreciated!

Also for you Dish VIP-211, VIP-622 users.... Did the March 1 software flash fix the problems you were having?

I hope you enjoy the rest of the NCAA tournament in 1080i and 5.1.

One note on the 5.1. When they "flex" from a game to the New York studio and do what they call "walking the dog" i.e. going from game to game to show what is going on elsewhere, that audio will be in 2 channel audio as the NYC studio is still only 2 channel stereo.

When they return to the direct backhaul from your main game, your 5.1 audio should resume.

In case this might help someone with a similar problem, here is a quote from the manual. This is what was causing the audio glitch. We slightly reduced the output data rate from our Tandberg encoder which is the input to this converter.

---
Enen Technologies
NN6-1113 ASI to SMPTE-310M converter manual page 8

ASI input bit rate (total bitrate, including stuffing packets) must be slightly slower than the SMPTE 310M one. A DVB-ASI stream having a bit rate very close to the SMPTE 310M one (e.g. some bits per second of difference with 19,39 or 38,78 Mbps) may not be converted smoothly.

I'm getting video glitches on 10 with my 622, I didn't see any on my tv tuner for the short time I watched.

L4.01 came down last night for some people with 622's and one person reported that it did address the over power multipathing issue for OTA on the 622. This came from satelliteguys website.

I am supposed to get L4.01 tonight as a beta tester, I will report here if this is true, I sure hope it works better. I'm at 78% on 10 now and that is the problem with the glitches I think because it just dropped to zero and lost signal for a minute. If I can keep it under 70% it seems to work pretty good. With 10 at 78%, this puts 27 at 68% as it runs about 10% less power and 27 works pretty good.

Maybe someone in this area with 622's got the new software last night and can give us a report on this overpower issue fix.

rhoops,
Glad y'all got the audio drops fixed.

rhoops,
Glad y'all got the audio drops fixed.

I've been listening carefully for 2 hours tonight and I heard four audio dropouts. Three during "busy" network commercials and only one during basketball. I think a minor tweak tomorrow will fix things for good.

I received the new SW download last night and I am happy to report that channel 10 seems to be working fine from my 622vip receiver. I have a 942 receiver that runs through a gefen switcher to the same tv and channel 10 is messing up on it just like before with my 622. My signal is running around 78% on both receivers.

I had pulled the attenuater out of my line to the 622 awhile back because my signal had dropped so low it wouldn't lock.

Anyone else in the area with a 622 receiver and has received this SW L4.01 maybe can confirm what I am seeing. You are also really going to like the changes in your 622 I think with the new SW.

I received the new SW download last night and I am happy to report that channel 10 seems to be working fine from my 622vip receiver.

Can you verify that the VIP-211 is essentially the same machine without the DVR? Do you think the receiver software will follow the same upgade path?

Does anybody here receive KODE-DT with an HR20 HD DVR from DTV? I live outside Carthage and get all digital broadcasts except KODE. Just looking for some help, since KOAM-DT has a weaker signal than KODE-DT and I get KOAM-DT great.

The FCC site still shows KODE-DT (RF ch 43) as having a special temp. authority to operate at a measly 1.46kW ERP. And the antenna is about 300' lower than their analog antenna. Probably doesn't go very far at all.

And then there's the weak tuner problems of the HR20.... :-(

I live in Pittsburg, KS and I am only able to pull in KOAM (CBS), KFJX (FOX) and 3 PBS channels over the air. No signal at all from KSNF (NBC) or KODE (ABC). I am using a Samsung DTB-H260F tuner with an amplified indoor antenna. CBS comes in 1080i, FOX comes in 480i and always 4:3, one PBS channel comes in 720p @16:9 and the other two are 480i.

Can you verify that the VIP-211 is essentially the same machine without the DVR? Do you think the receiver software will follow the same upgade path?

I can't verify that the 211 is the same machine, but I would say it has the same OTA tuner. I think it has allready had it's new SW update with the HD channel map down etc. I don't know if there was a fix in it for the OTA problem.

I have checked channel 10 again for about 30 min now and it is still looking good. I switched to 27 and had one video loss but it came back on and I haven't had any glitches at all since. The weather is kinda bad now which could be some of the trouble since I'm only in the 60's on signal strength for 27.

I watched ncaa for like 30 minutes and letterman for 30 minutes with no dropouts at all on 10 so nice work rhoops.

... No signal at all from KSNF (NBC) or KODE (ABC)....1.46kW & 1.65kW transmitters on ~600' antennas don't transmit very far.

Thanks to the cheap-ass station owners Nexstar/Mission and their digital foot-dragging.

Having a terrible trying to watch the race on 27 today, it just won't stay locked.It maybe that my signal is just to weak , my tv tuner won't even pick it up or my 921 receiver.My 942 and 622 must have a little better tuner but won't stay locked. Channel 10 seems just fine.

Does anybody here receive KODE-DT with an HR20 HD DVR from DTV? I live outside Carthage and get all digital broadcasts except KODE. Just looking for some help, since KOAM-DT has a weaker signal than KODE-DT and I get KOAM-DT great.


I live in Joplin, less than 2 miles from the towers. KODE-DT does not even show a signal on my HR20. My HR10 and TV digital tuner does pick it up, but it is horribly glitchy and eventually causes the HR10 to lock up.

I've actually found my HR20 tuner to be a bit better than the HR10, in that it does a better job locking on to KOAM-DT.

Having a terrible trying to watch the race on 27 today, it just won't stay locked.It maybe that my signal is just to weak , my tv tuner won't even pick it up or my 921 receiver.My 942 and 622 must have a little better tuner but won't stay locked. Channel 10 seems just fine.

This a hard one to explain. 27 and 10 actually use the same antenna and transmission line, and are running the same amount of power. Same make and model of exciter and transmitter.

The only substantial difference is 27 is on channel 28 and 10 is on 52. By all rights 27-1 should propagate better.

This a hard one to explain. 27 and 10 actually use the same antenna and transmission line, and are running the same amount of power. Same make and model of exciter and transmitter.

The only substantial difference is 27 is on channel 28 and 10 is on 52. By all rights 27-1 should propagate better.

This is strange that my 921 signal on channel 10 is running from 107% to 112%, and it won't even lock on 27, looks like it is around 55% to 60%. I tried turning my antenna a little and I run new RG6 coax with no splices in it and still no luck.

On my 622 and 942 ,27 is around 68% vs channel 10 at around 80%. Maybe before summer is over I will be moved higher up on the hill and fix this problem for me. Channel 10 is looking great.

...The only substantial difference is 27 is on channel 28 and 10 is on 52. By all rights 27-1 should propagate better.28 does, at least for me, out in the boonies where I live (about 73 crow-fly miles from the xmtr site, according to antennaweb.org). Of course, better reception of one channel vs another is dependent on antenna/preamp & tuner sensitivity to each channel, which can vary widely.

This is strange that my 921 signal on channel 10 is running from 107% to 112%, and it won't even lock on 27, looks like it is around 55% to 60%. I tried turning my antenna a little and I run new RG6 coax with no splices in it and still no luck.

On my 622 and 942 ,27 is around 68% vs channel 10 at around 80%. Maybe before summer is over I will be moved higher up on the hill and fix this problem for me. Channel 10 is looking great.MRUSS,
What antenna/preamp are you using?

Also, like the OTA tuners in the Dish Network receiver (and many D* receivers) aren't the greatest. To rule out tuner problems, you might try testing a Samsung DTB-260F OTA receiver from CircuitCity (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Samsung-HD-Tuner-DTB-H260F/sem/rpsm/oid/164855/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) or Bestbuy. If it doesn't help, just return it.

lanchefan and bscoles,

To contrast your local OTA digital reception with mine via Dish's VIP
211: I'm in south/central Joplin about 3 miles from the KODE/KOZK
and KSNF towers, with a rooftop VHF/UHF Yagi antenna/rotator aimed
northwest to pick up those signals as well as KOAM/KFJX about 17
miles northwest. I get 100% signal strengths from KOZK and KSNF,
low 90's from KODE, and low 70's from KOAM/KFJX. Reception from
those two Pittsburg channels was very good until 6 weeks ago when
audio and video dropouts described by other 211 and 622 owners made them unwatchable.

MRUSS,
What antenna/preamp are you using?

Also, like the OTA tuners in the Dish Network receiver (and many D* receivers) aren't the greatest. To rule out tuner problems, you might try testing a Samsung DTB-260F OTA receiver from CircuitCity (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Samsung-HD-Tuner-DTB-H260F/sem/rpsm/oid/164855/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) or Bestbuy. If it doesn't help, just return it.

I'm using the XG91 with a Philips PH61112,40-860mhz,28db preamp.
It just seems funny why 10 and 27 signal strength is so much different when they are putting out the same power.I know that multipathing is an issue for me and maybe the higher frequencies works better than lower frequencies,if so I'm in trouble when 33 fires up on channel 19. But then again 23 works fine for me.

This is for rhoops,did you put the stream recorder on channel 27? Channel 10 seems fixed on my 622 but still glitches on my 942. I believe the new software dish sent out helped my 622 for channel 10.

This is for rhoops,did you put the stream recorder on channel 27? Channel 10 seems fixed on my 622 but still glitches on my 942. I believe the new software dish sent out helped my 622 for channel 10.

As far as I know, we haven't tried the stream recorder on 27. We're still trying to figure out whether the occasional audio glitch I hear is coming from the network or generated locally.

I'm using the XG91 with a Philips PH61112,40-860mhz,28db preamp.
It just seems funny why 10 and 27 signal strength is so much different when they are putting out the same power.I know that multipathing is an issue for me and maybe the higher frequencies works better than lower frequencies,if so I'm in trouble when 33 fires up on channel 19. But then again 23 works fine for me.The NET gain for the XG91 is better on upper channels than lower ones. See the NET gain chart HERE (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html). I'm not sure how well that antenna will work for KOLR-DT when it moves back to VHF ch 10, post analog.

WRT multipath, all other things being equal, different channels will be affected differently by whatever is causing your multipath. Some channels will fare better than others. Not necessarily higher or lower channels, just different ones.

Rhoops -
Is the Masters going to be broadcast in HD this year?

Rhoops -
Is the Masters going to be broadcast in HD this year?

THE MASTERS - HDTV FEEDS/5.1 SURROUND SOUND


THE MASTERS - HDTV FEEDS/5.1 SURROUND SOUND
APRIL 5 -9, 2007 (INCLUDES MONDAY CONTINGENCY COVERAGE)


**ATTENTION ALL HDTV BROADCAST STATIONS**

ONCE AGAIN THIS YEAR, "THE MASTERS" TOURNAMENT WILL BE AVAILABLE IN HIGH DEFINITION LIVE FROM THE AUGUSTA NATIONAL GOLF CLUB. IN ADDITION, PLEASE NOTE THAT "THE MASTERS" HIGHLIGHTS AIRING 11:35-11:50PM CNYT/CPT ON THURSDAY AND FRIDAY WILL BE AVAILABLE IN HD.

THE THURSDAY-FRIDAY DAYTIME RIGHTS FOR “THE MASTERS” BELONG TO THE USA NETWORK. IT ALSO SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THE USA NETWORK WILL AIR THE THURSDAY/FRIDAY COVERAGE ON THEIR OWN HD CHANNEL. WHILE “MASTERS” COVERAGE ON THESE DATES WILL BE BRANDED WITH THE USA NETWORK GRAPHICS, THE BROADCAST WILL LOOK AND SOUND FAMILIAR AS THE ACTUAL PRODUCTION AND ANNOUNCERS WILL COME FROM CBS SPORTS. WE ENCOURAGE ALL STATIONS TO AIR THIS BONUS “MASTERS” COVERAGE.

NOTE: THE SATURDAY/SUNDAY HD COVERAGE OF “THE MASTERS” IS EXCLUSIVE TO CBS ONLY.

SHOULD "THE MASTERS" RUN LONG ON ANY OF THESE DATES, THE HD FEED WILL BE AVAILABLE UNTIL THE CONCLUSION OF COVERAGE. FOR THOSE STATIONS WHO ARE AUTOMATED, PLEASE REMEMBER TO KEEP YOUR HD SWITCH ON UNTIL COVERAGE CONCLUDES.

**5.1 SURROUND SOUND**

HD COVERAGE OF "THE MASTERS" ON ALL DATES WILL BE AVAILABLE IN 5.1 SURROUND SOUND FOR THOSE STATIONS THAT ARE EQUIPPED TO TRANSMIT IT:

• STATIONS UTILIZING AUTOMATIC-METADATA CONTROL FOR THEIR AC-3 ENCODER, REQUIRE NO INTERVENTION.

• STATIONS WITHOUT AUTOMATIC-METADATA CONTROL FOR THEIR AC-3 ENCODER -- PLEASE REMIND YOUR MASTER CONTROL TO SWITCH FROM STEREO TO 5.1 SURROUND SOUND.

*****

SHOULD COVERAGE OF "THE MASTERS" TOURNAMENT BE NECESSARY ON MONDAY, APRIL 9, A LIVE HD FEED WILL BE AVAILABLE AS WELL. YOU WILL BE ALERTED OF THE TIME AND HD FEEDS VIA BAS ON SUNDAY SHOULD THIS OCCUR.

Since you brought up the Masters... .has anyone noticed how terrible some cameras seem to look during PGA broadcasts on KYTV-DT 3-1?

I ask only because some shots/camera angles look crisp, sharp and well....HD. Other shots, however, look out and out terrible.

Anyone else noticed this?

I think KYTV-DT looks out & out terrible most of the time. You can't do that much multicasting with simultaneous 1080i (or 720p) and expect it to look like anything but low quality.

I'm curious if any other Dish 622 owners are getting better OTA quality since the 4.01 patch. I've seen some reports that it is indeed better but don't have the update myself yet.

I have noticed that 10 is starting to come in much better. Of course I have my antenna amped down so that could be it as well. I'll play around with it and let you know.

I was able to raise my antenna about 8" and I turned it to the north a little and it raised my signal to about 74% on 27 and lowered my signal on 10 to agout 74%, so both channels are about the same strength as rhoops said they are putting out the same power. Seems to have fixed my problem on 27 now. This is all on my 622 and I also regained signal on my tv tuner for 27.

I called my brother-in-law today to see if he got the new software in his 622,and he did but hadn't checked 10 and 27 to see if it helped. We were on the phone for over an hour while we were both tuned to channel 27 most of the time. There was only a couple of glitches this whole time and it happened at the same time on both tv's,his and mine. I believe this was somthing in the broadcast as it happened at the excact same time.

I do believe L4.01 software for the 622 has fixed our problem on 10 and 27, plus what 10 done with the stream recorder.

My brother-in-law said he had almost quit trying to watch these channels OTA because of the breakups, but is very happy that I called him and told him to check them. He is going to let me know in a day or 2 on how they are doing.

If you have a 622 you are going to like this new software.

I've got a 622, but still no new software :(

So far, I've had so much trouble with OTA on the 622 that I just don't use it (let my tv do the tuning instead)

As soon as I notice 4.1 on my 622, I'll try again and give you an update...

I've got a 622, but still no new software :(

So far, I've had so much trouble with OTA on the 622 that I just don't use it (let my tv do the tuning instead)

As soon as I notice 4.1 on my 622, I'll try again and give you an update...

You should have the new software Thursday morning. Plans are always subject though as you know.

I was able to raise my antenna about 8" and I turned it to the north a little and it raised my signal to about 74% on 27 and lowered my signal on 10 to agout 74%, so both channels are about the same strength as rhoops said they are putting out the same power. Seems to have fixed my problem on 27 now. This is all on my 622 and I also regained signal on my tv tuner for 27.It sounds like the antenna was in a dead spot and raising it got it out of there (or at least enough to make the signal more reliable). This is very similar to a cell phone dead spot, where moving the phone a foot or so can make all the difference in the world in call quality.

If possible, check the signal at different times of the day and in different atmospheric conditions (dry, humid, etc.) to see if the problem is in fact, solved, and not just improved due to a weather change.

The pole my antenna was on had setteled down in the ground in time and I just lifted it and put a 4" concrete block and a 4x4 under it which made near 8" and that made all the difference in the world.My signal increased last night after dark, but both 10 & 27 is holding about even and still working good on my 622.

The every few seconds audio/video dropouts I was experiencing with
my 211 here in Joplin from KOAM-DT, our CBS HD outlet, are no more!
As of yesterday and last night, reception has been good, with just a
little pixellation yesterday and none last night and today. I'm hoping
I'm not being premature with my jubilation.

The Springfield Lowe'ses have ChannelMaster antennas, amps, rotors, and antenna mounting masts & hardware on clearance. Prices are approximately 40% off (e.g. ChannelMaster 3044 amp was $40, now $23.98; 4' pole was $8, now $4.71).

The 3044 is a 4-output 22db VHF/UHF amp. They also had a single output (3042?) and a mast-mounted amp (303-something) at similar discounts. No 4228-type bowtie antennas, but they did have the boom-type VHF/UHF antennas. Prices above are from the north side Lowe's. I know the south side Lowe's also had the poles, but I didn't look for any of the other items.

Hope that helps anyone needing or upgrading antenna equipment.

Since you brought up the Masters... .has anyone noticed how terrible some cameras seem to look during PGA broadcasts on KYTV-DT 3-1?

I ask only because some shots/camera angles look crisp, sharp and well....HD. Other shots, however, look out and out terrible.

Anyone else noticed this?

NBC is using SD handhelds, and HD stationary cameras. That's why there is such a drastic difference. Any of the mounted cameras are great, but cameras walking the course are ****. CBS is using ALL HD cameras, so the MAsters will look great, as always....

NBC is using SD handhelds, and HD stationary cameras. That's why there is such a drastic difference. Any of the mounted cameras are great, but cameras walking the course are ****. CBS is using ALL HD cameras, so the MAsters will look great, as always....That, plus the fact that KOLR-DT's HD signal isn't bandwidth starved from multicasting, like KYTV-DT's.

You can get a big AMEN on that! (Thanks to rhoops and the crew for doing it the way it's supposed to be!)

Any one else having problems with audio on KOLR-DT? I am getting music but no other audio. Like, as if it is two channel and one is missing. I turned up the sound when music stopped and heard office noises: phone ringing, people talking in the back ground. Not having problem with any other DT channels.

Never Mind. Audio is back to normal.

Yeah, it sounded like we getting only the right front and left front channels of 5.1 channel audio even though we were only getting it in normal stereo. All the dialog is on the center channel which is why it was missing.

I noticed all night on both KOLR-DT and KSFX-DT that they were in 4:3 SD. I thought these stations had the capability to overlay weather info on the HD feed?

Any one else having problems with audio on KOLR-DT? I am getting music but no other audio. Like, as if it is two channel and one is missing. I turned up the sound when music stopped and heard office noises: phone ringing, people talking in the back ground. Not having problem with any other DT channels.
What you describe is what happens when the Dolby encoder "gets it wrong". Normally it switches back and forth between 2 channel stereo and 5.1 Dolby. Many network commercials are in 2 channel stereo, so the encoder gets a bit of a workout changing modes.

If the program is in 5.1, but the encoder (mistakenly) is in the 2 channel stereo mode you will get the left surround and right surround, but nothing else. Most of the dialog is in the center channel, which you are not hearing.

What is strange is that due to the tornado and other system issues I was in upconverted SD tonight until 8:15, so 5.1 is not involved at all.

I noticed my Dish 622 wasn't working yet for OTA and noticed I"m still at 3.66 for a software version.

Anyone know how to get it to update to the latest?

I noticed my Dish 622 wasn't working yet for OTA and noticed I"m still at 3.66 for a software version.

Anyone know how to get it to update to the latest?

Just reading at satguys and someone said L4.02 will go out this week for a minor fix in L4.01. You won't need to do any thing except turn it off when you are not watching it, I would give it a hard reboot once you get it. It will come, I just don't know when.

What you describe is what happens when the Dolby encoder "gets it wrong". Normally it switches back and forth between 2 channel stereo and 5.1 Dolby. Many network commercials are in 2 channel stereo, so the encoder gets a bit of a workout changing modes.
rhoops,
Speaking of Dolby Digital sound, should all stations have the "Dial Norm (http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/AES5900.pdf)" (Dialog Normalization) setting at the same dB level?

The reason I ask is while flipping channels, I've noticed that on stations with DD, the Dial Norm setting is all over the board; some with negative dB numbers and others with positive dB numbers, and corresponds with the wide range of audio level variation from station to station.

The "Dial Norm" data shows up on my audio amplifier.

I noticed all night on both KOLR-DT and KSFX-DT that they were in 4:3 SD. I thought these stations had the capability to overlay weather info on the HD feed?

Both KOLR and KSFX had separate color phasing problems. At KOLR when we selected HD and put the weather bug on the analog channel the weather bug was the wrong color. That has been fixed.

KSFX's setup is different, but for another reason they also had to run upconverted SD.

We frequently find that when we fix one problem another one is created.

rhoops,
Speaking of Dolby Digital sound, should all stations have the "Dial Norm (http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/AES5900.pdf)" (Dialog Normalization) setting at the same dB level?

The reason I ask is while flipping channels, I've noticed that on stations with DD, the Dial Norm setting is all over the board; some with negative dB numbers and others with positive dB numbers, and corresponds with the wide range of audio level variation from station to station.

The "Dial Norm" data shows up on my audio amplifier.

I've never heard the term. I do know we spent some time chasing our tail with the DTV audio levels. Our settings were in the -30 db range, everyone said we were too loud. We changed it toward -40 db, thinking that would bring down the level. It turned out that that made it even louder. We thought we had it cranked down as far as it would go and it was blasting.

Of course it turned out that things were backward to our way of thinking and we moved it closer to zero and levels got more tolerable. We probably over-corrected and have things too low at the moment.

I'm dis-inclined to open a whole new can of worms with audio until we get a few other things ironed out, but I'll read up on it.

rhoops,
Thanks for taking an interest in this.

When time permits I will post "DialNorm" readings of DD stations I can receive.

Speaking of Dolby Digital sound, should all stations have the "Dial Norm (http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/AES5900.pdf)" (Dialog Normalization) setting at the same dB level?
The dialnorm value should not necessarily be the same from station to station, and it does not even need to be the same from program to program on the same station (i.e., dialnorm may be 27 for program A, 31 for local commercial breaks within program A, then 25 for program B, etc.).

Dialnorm should be set to the average dialog level of the program material, and *IF* it is always set correctly by the broadcaster, in theory it eliminates the wide variation in audio levels between stations and between program content (like commercials). See Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialnorm) for an overview, or poke around the Dolby website for some more information.

There are a number of problems though:
1. Not all broadcasters have equipment (e.g. Dolby LM100) to accurately measure average dialog level in order to properly set the dialnorm value to begin with.
2. Not everyone agrees that dialnorm is a good thing, or even necessary... CBS (as a network, not picking on KOLR here) in particular has thumbed their nose at the dialnorm requirement.
3. Metadata that would carry the proper dialnorm value from the program producers -- if they even provide it -- does not necessarily make it all the way through the network delivery chain to local broadcasters.
4. Dialnorm is not well understood, or is misunderstood, by many broadcasters, with the result that:
5. It is common for the dialnorm value to be left at whatever the 'default' setting from the factory is on the broadcaster's AC-3 encoder. This default value may or may not be correct for the audio levels the broadcaster is actually using/transmitting.

This is something the FCC should regulate.

Thanks for the info!

Last week I reported things were going good for me getting Channel 27 and the other locals,well come Saturday when the atmosphere conditions changed it all went to pot. I'm getting 96% for 3, 86% for 10, 94% for 21, and not enough % to stay locked on 27. It bounces from 0 to 66%.

arxaw, I have read all your links about the cm 4228 antenna and the 7777 pre amp and these products really look good so I'm giving them a try and see if they help. I should receive these before the weekend, I will try to get them up and keep you posted.Thanks for all your work.

Hope it helps.

Can you believe I ordered my cm 4228 and 7777 pre amp Monday and received it today, thats fast. Anyway I put it up but not in the same place as my xg91 and about 2' lower. Results are, I can now get channel 27, but I have lost channel 10. I have lost about 10% signal on channel 3 and channel 21 is at 100%. I have gained about 10 plus % on channel 27. It looks like for sure this antenna is better on the low end of the frequency.

I'm thinking about combining the 2 antennas with my 7777 and see if that does anything. It says you can combine vhf and uhf, what do you think arxaw, would this help any?

It's a crap shoot, but in your difficult reception location, it certainly can't hurt to experiment! Ideally, the coax cables between the 2 antennas and the combiner (a hybrid splitter used in reverse) should be identical and of equal length.

I recently combined two different antennas to get both Springfield & FSM/FAY markets without a rotor, on my DirecTV HR20-700 DVR. This was not necessary with my previous receiver, the H20-600, which has a vastly superior tuner compared to the HR20-700.

I combined the CM 4228 outdoor with a Zenith Silver Sensor in the attic. Each antenna has a separate CM7777 preamp and the signals are combined after the preamps. You can combine both antennas before the preamp though.

A hybrid splitter/combiner works well for combining two antennas.
http://i11.tinypic.com/42tac6t.jpg (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062050&cp=&sr=1&origkw=hybrid+splitter&kw=hybrid+splitter&parentPage=search)
RadioShaft (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062050&cp=&sr=1&origkw=hybrid+splitter&kw=hybrid+splitter&parentPage=search) has 'em.

If you combine the 2 antennas aimed in the same direction and reception is still not what you want, experiment by slightly rotating one antenna at a time to see if reception improves. With patience, you may find a spot where all the channels will come in.

Sunny afternoons with low humidity are a good time to aim the antennas. If you can find a good spot for reception then, it will be more likely to work during other times of the day and in more humid weather, when reception is often easier.

MRUSS,

Have you tried adjusting the TILT of the antenna?

Can you believe I ordered my cm 4228 and 7777 pre amp Monday and received it today, thats fast. Anyway I put it up but not in the same place as my xg91 and about 2' lower. Results are, I can now get channel 27, but I have lost channel 10. I have lost about 10% signal on channel 3 and channel 21 is at 100%. I have gained about 10 plus % on channel 27. It looks like for sure this antenna is better on the low end of the frequency.

I'm thinking about combining the 2 antennas with my 7777 and see if that does anything. It says you can combine vhf and uhf, what do you think arxaw, would this help any?

There is no effective substitute for antenna height. A friend of mine tried an absolutely huge and expensive antenna at rooftop level and did much better with a smaller cheaper antenna 10 feet higher. No preamp or huge array of metal can pick up a signal from a place where the signal isn't present.

Combining antennas pointing in the same direction can actually exacerbate the multi-path problems. Depending on the antenna position and length of transmission line the signals may add or subtract depending on the relative phase of the signal. Of course if it works, it works.

With a smaller antenna it is relatively easy to add an additional 10 feet of mast, if that doesn't work, try another 10 feet.

If adding additional height isn't possible, it's certainly worth it try to combine antennas, especially since he already has two antennas. But is is a crap shoot, and results are sometimes worse than a single antenna.

With my elevation here, I can get the Springfield channels (farthest ~73 mi away) with only a litte Silver Sensor antenna in the attic, and no preamp. But I split to 5 tuners, so I need a preamp. I also have to use 2 antennas to receive 2 markets w/o a rotor, because of the crappy tuners in the D* HR20-700 DVR.

A better tuner may also help overcome multipath problems associated w/ low height, too.

I tried putting the 7777 on the xg91 to see if it helped, but didn't seem to make much difference so I switched it back. I connected the 4228 and 7777 to the 622 receiver so I can get channel 27 to watch the races. I left the other 3 tuners on my xg91 so I can watch channel 10. I get all other local channels from either antenna fine. This will get me by until I move later this summer, I shouldn't have any problems then.

I had thought about adjusting the tilt but the antenna is just to hard to reach and wasn't worth it.Once I move I will decide which antenna to use but I figure if channel 10 goes back to vhf in 09 I will need the 4228.

Once I move I will decide which antenna to use but I figure if channel 10 goes back to vhf in 09 I will need the 4228.
It's easy to test how well an antenna will work with KOLR-DT in 09. Just hook up an analog TV to the antenna and see how channel 10 works now. At 192-198 Mhz, channel 10 should carry farther than the UHF channels and it will be over 300 feet higher on the tower too. Most people will be able to pick it up with the proverbial "wet noodle" for an antenna. When the channel 10 transmitter is converted to digital the average power (as opposed to peak power) will nearly double.

The analog ch 10 test is a good way to see if your antenna will work for DTV 10. My 4228 works great for ch 10 @ 73 miles from the transmitter. Elevation helps!

One of the problems I've had with VHF digital is impulse noise, even on highband VHF chs 7 thru 13. Lightning and other electrical noise can cause very annoying dropouts on VHF digital chs I've been able to receive, both here (Fayetteville, AR KAFT-DT 9) and when I lived in Little Rock (KTHV-DT 12). UHF digitals do not seem to be plagued with this problem. I hope KOLR fares better when they jump back to VHF in '09, but I have my doubts, based on previous reception problems with digital VHF.

The PBS affiliate in Little Rock is in the VHF-LO band ch 5, which was imossible to watch if it was lightning anywhere in the region, or when various electrical stuff was switched on/off in the house. Dishwasher, ice maker, light switches, etc. :-(

I did the analog test and I do get channel 10, but not very good. I can't even get a picture on my XG91 on analog 10.

I also did combine my antenna's with a cheap splitter, I now receive all channels on all 4 tuners that I have. I came out of each preamp with about 1' of coax to my splitter in reverse then to another 4 way splitter to all my tuners. It did lower my signal on 21 over 20% . 10 and 27 are running in the upper 70's to lower 80's,3 in the 90's and 21 in the 70's. Picture seams to be fine with no dropouts except on my 942 which needs new software like dish gave us on the 622.

I just received my Dish VP6221 HD DVR this weekend and it improved my signal strength on all channels by over 30% over my DirecTV H20. 10 and 27 are now at close to 100% all the time!! :) And 33 is at 55-60%.

As Borat would say... "Vary Nice" :)

I did the analog test and I do get channel 10, but not very good. I can't even get a picture on my XG91 on analog 10. MRUSS, I'm glad you tried the ch 10 test on the XG91. I was wondering how it compared to the 4228 in the VHF-HI department.... good to know for anyone considering a future proof antenna.

I also did combine my antenna's with a cheap splitter, I now receive all channels on all 4 tuners that I have...Glad the combo worked for you. If your reception in all kinds of weather and at different times of the day is dropout free, I would leave it as is for now (if it ain't broke....).

But if you do notice dropouts on a particular channel at certain times of the day and atmospheric conditions (e.g. mid afternoons and clear weather), try moving one of the antennas just slightly in either direction. This can be frustrating and time consuming, especially if you have multiple tuners to check, but you may eventually find a better sweet spot for all channels. This is what I had to do to get this pesky D* HR20-700 DVR to work on 2 markets without using a rotor. The H20-600 I previously had would pick up 2 markets with only my 4228 aimed in almost any direction.

I just received my Dish VP6221 HD DVR this weekend and it improved my signal strength on all channels by over 30% over my DirecTV H20. 10 and 27 are now at close to 100% all the time!! :) And 33 is at 55-60%.

As Borat would say... "Vary Nice" :)

I do think the 622 has a very good OTA tuner, sure beats my Sony tv and my 921 dish receiver.
If you got a new 622 you probably got the new software, it is really nice.

I am assuming I did. :) So far I am very happy with it, I just hope that they activate the USB port so I can back up my stuff easily.

I am assuming I did. :) So far I am very happy with it, I just hope that they activate the USB port so I can back up my stuff easily.

You can go in the menu and check system info and software would be L4.01. Also doing pip on the 3rd push you will have side by side pip and in your EPG all HD channels will have HD in white beside the number. You can pause the picture and swap tuners and it will hold this pause up to an hour when you swap back to it. And the best thing channel 10 and 27 works good with it.

Checking my channels with this change in weather today and my signals are good on all channels with an increase of about 5%. Looks like tieing the 2 antennas together is working for me.

Then yes I have it :) I like having the white HD next to the channel number. It doesn't sound like much but it does help.

Is there a way to get program info for CW and PBS? I get it for all of the other local channels, but it just has a generic listing in the guide. I don't remember the exact wording.

If adding additional height isn't possible, it's certainly worth it try to combine antennas, especially since he already has two antennas. But is is a crap shoot, and results are sometimes worse than a single antenna.

With my elevation here, I can get the Springfield channels (farthest ~73 mi away) with only a litte Silver Sensor antenna in the attic, and no preamp. But I split to 5 tuners, so I need a preamp. I also have to use 2 antennas to receive 2 markets w/o a rotor, because of the crappy tuners in the D* HR20-700 DVR.

A better tuner may also help overcome multipath problems associated w/ low height, too.

Alright, I have purchased a Hisense HDTV receiver off Ebay for my parents who live in Lebanon. I have decided to try to pick up the HD signals with an indoor antenna, but I don't know which one to buy. I see that you have the Phillips silver sensor. I want to buy it because it is the cheapest and has gotten good reviews on its reception quality, but it doesn't pick up VHF. Isn't KSPR-DT as well as KOLR and KYTV (non-digital) ran on VHF?

So, if I want to pick up those stations as well, I would have to have an antenna that did UHF and VHF. Any ideas on another good indoor antenna? I was looking at the Terk HDTVi or HDTVa models. Anyone have any experience with these?

I saw a few guys posted here a while back from Lebanon. What kind of antenna do you guys use? I would prefer an indoor one because of less hassle. But if I have to go with an outdoor one, I would.

IMO, the best way to go is to get a 4228 (I think that is it, Arxaw can correct me :) and stick it in the attic :) I messed with indoor antennas first in Springfield, it is not worth the trouble. Put up the 4228 and never looked back. It is generally cheaper than a lot of indoor antennas you can find. I think I paid around $50 for it shipped.

IMO, the best way to go is to get a 4228 (I think that is it, Arxaw can correct me :) and stick it in the attic :) I messed with indoor antennas first in Springfield, it is not worth the trouble. Put up the 4228 and never looked back. It is generally cheaper than a lot of indoor antennas you can find. I think I paid around $50 for it shipped.

That only does UHF though right? Plus how much trouble is it to mount it and run the Coax wire? If I did this could I also have bunny ears hooked up for VHF?

It picks up all of the digital signals that are broadcast. You don't have to worry about the VHF stuff unless you are wanting to receive analog as well. As for the coax, it really isn't that hard to do as long as you have a "fisher" tape to run the cabling. You can get one pretty cheap at Harbor Freight in Springfield.

jordanzelda23,
For more specific antenna help:
Enter your parents' complete address & 9-digit zip (if available) at: http://antennaweb.org/
On the results page, click the "show digital stations only" button.
Copy & paste the results back here.

As for VHF/UHF? All digital stations in Spgfld are currently broadcasting on UHF. After feb 2009, KOLR-DT will move back to VHF channel 10. However, some (but not ALL) UHF antennas will work just fine for channel 10. Regardless, post your antennaweb results back here for more suggestions.

jordanzelda23,
For more specific antenna help:
Enter your parents' complete address & 9-digit zip (if available) at: http://antennaweb.org/
On the results page, click the "show digital stations only" button.
Copy & paste the results back here.

As for VHF/UHF? All digital stations in Spgfld are currently broadcasting on UHF. After feb 2009, KOLR-DT will move back to VHF channel 10. However, some (but not ALL) UHF antennas will work just fine for channel 10. Regardless, post your antennaweb results back here for more suggestions.

Digital

yellow - uhf KYTV-DT 3.1 NBC SPRINGFIELD MO 204° 37.8 44
* yellow - uhf KOZK-DT 21.1 PBS SPRINGFIELD MO 204° 38.1 23
* yellow - uhf KSFX-DT 27.1 FOX SPRINGFIELD MO 207° 35.2 28
* blue - uhf KMOS-DT 6.1 PBS SEDALIA MO 347° 67.6 15
* violet - uhf KSPR-DT 19.1 ABC SPRINGFIELD MO 226° 46.9 19

Analog

yellow - uhf KSPR 33 ABC SPRINGFIELD MO 207° 35.2 33
yellow - uhf KOZK 21 PBS SPRINGFIELD MO 204° 38.1 21
yellow - uhf KSFX 27 FOX SPRINGFIELD MO 207° 35.2 27
green - uhf K64FQ 64 REL ST. LOUIS MO 329° 12.2 64
green - vhf KOLR 10 CBS SPRINGFIELD MO 207° 35.2 10
lt green - vhf KYTV 3 NBC SPRINGFIELD MO 204° 37.8 3
violet - uhf KWBM-CA 47 ION SPRINGFIELD MO 207° 35.2 47
violet - vhf KMOS 6 PBS SEDALIA MO 13° 77.2 6


I'll pretty much just have to point the antenna one direction - towards Springfield. Pretty much every channel is 35 to 40 miles away. The reason why I want to pick up the analog stations as well (on uhf and vhf) is because when my parents are watching the local news or another show that isn't displayed in HD it is going to be pillarboxed all the way around because they only have a 4:3 HDTV.

I'm not sure why KOLR-DT 10.1 isn't showing up on that list...shouldn't it be the same signal as KSFX-DT since their antenna's are right next to each other?

The data supplied to antennaweb.org is sometimes out of date. That's why KOLR-DT isn't showing up in your list. It should show up as a "yellow" strength station. Yellow stations are often received with an indoor antenna. BUT it depends on what the house is made of. If it has a metal roof, metal siding, stucco-on-screen or foil-backed insulation in the walls, all bets are off for reliable indoor reception.

Does the TV or STB have a ZOOM / FORMAT / ASPECT button ? That will get rid of the "bars all the way around" issue. If not, you're going to have watch analog I guess, if that solves the aspect ratio problem (but what will they do after 2009 when analog shuts down?).

Bottom line, if you want digital only, a UHF antenna will work for now, and may work after 2009. And possibly an indoor or attic antenna will do. Here are two good ones to try:
Silver Sensor (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Philips-Indoor-HDTV-Antenna-PHDTV1/sem/rpsm/oid/158311/catOid/-15607/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) (avoid knockoff lookalike/soundalike models). If CC is out of stock, they will ship. Shipping is free right now. You can return it to a local CC store for a refund if it doesn't work.
Eagle Aspen antenna for $21.50 at amazon (go to amazon dot com and search for: 2-BAY UHF ANTENNA )

If you want both UHF & VHF reception, you will need a larger VHF+UHF combo antenna with extendable dipoles. For lowband channel 3, you need to extend the dipoles almost fully, and lay them horizontally and perpendicularly to the transmitter, for best reception, like this:
http://i16.tinypic.com/43hzo29.jpg


Start simple, with indoor VHF/UHF antennas you can return if it doesn't work, like this one from walmart (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2625059).

Forget KSPR-DT 33-1 (aka 19-1). They are xmitting at very low power and reliable reception is difficult to impossible for many area viewers.

I pick up analog 33 on my 4228 just fine.

The data supplied to antennaweb.org is sometimes out of date. That's why KOLR-DT isn't showing up in your list. It should show up as a "yellow" strength station. Yellow stations are often received with an indoor antenna. BUT it depends on what the house is made of. If it has a metal roof, metal siding, stucco-on-screen or foil-backed insulation in the walls, all bets are off for reliable indoor reception.

Does the TV or STB have a ZOOM / FORMAT / ASPECT button ? That will get rid of the "bars all the way around" issue. If not, you're going to have watch analog I guess, if that solves the aspect ratio problem (but what will they do after 2009 when analog shuts down?).

Bottom line, if you want digital only, a UHF antenna will work for now, and may work after 2009. And possibly an indoor or attic antenna will do. Here are two good ones to try:
Silver Sensor (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Philips-Indoor-HDTV-Antenna-PHDTV1/sem/rpsm/oid/158311/catOid/-15607/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) (avoid knockoff lookalike/soundalike models). If CC is out of stock, they will ship. Shipping is free right now. You can return it to a local CC store for a refund if it doesn't work.
Eagle Aspen antenna for $21.50 at amazon (go to amazon dot com and search for: 2-BAY UHF ANTENNA )

If you want both UHF & VHF reception, you will need a larger VHF+UHF combo antenna with extendable dipoles. For lowband channel 3, you need to extend the dipoles almost fully, and lay them horizontally and perpendicularly to the transmitter, for best reception, like this:
http://i16.tinypic.com/43hzo29.jpg


Start simple, with indoor VHF/UHF antennas you can return if it doesn't work, like this one from walmart (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2625059).

Forget KSPR-DT 33-1 (aka 19-1). They are xmitting at very low power and reliable reception is difficult to impossible for many area viewers.

Yeah, I think the STB has a zoom feature. That will make the picture look even more crappy though. I guess I will just have to test it out and see. I am going to order the silver sensor and wish for the best. If it doesn't work, I will send it back.

ZOOM just enlarges the picture to fill the 4:3 screen. Not to be confused with STRETCH, which usually stretches the image only horizontally or vertically. Stretch mode is nearly always distorted and often unwatchable.

Zoom should look fine on an analog set under 40 inches in size. And zoomed digital should look better than analog reception.

If the Silver Sensor doesn't work, just take to the nearest CC store for a refund.

ZOOM just enlarges the picture to fill the 4:3 screen. Not to be confused with STRETCH, which usually stretches the image only horizontally or vertically. Stretch mode is nearly always distorted and often unwatchable.

Zoom should look fine on an analog set under 40 inches in size. And zoomed digital should look better than analog reception.

If the Silver Sensor doesn't work, just take to the nearest CC store for a refund.

Cool, thanks. I never thought of that. Digital should look better zoomed than analog. I hope the silver sensor picks up all the channels. If you can pick up a channel 70 miles away, surely I can pick up the Springfield channels 35 miles away.

I think it should probably work, unless you're down behind a mountain or something, or if the house is constructed of materials previously mentioned.

Let us know your results.

I am so excited!

Last night, my Dish 622 finally downloaded the update, got all the way to 4.03. I came home tonight and hooked up an ancient set of bunny ears (at least 15 years old, no lie) and tested all the HD locals. At first there were some dropouts, but after fiddling a bit, I can get all the HD stations in the high 60s to low 90s range. I used the DVR to record CSI tonight, and it looked faaaantastic. Throughout the show, there were two short audio burps and one half second of pixelization, but that was it.

I was very surprised and pleased at what such an old antenna could do. I wonder if I should go with the 4338, as I had planned, or if a Silver Sensor would be sufficient. My gut tells me this signal won't be consistent forever, depending on weather and such, but it'd be awesome to save some dough and just get a good indoor antenna. Any advice is appreciated! (I live in Bolivar, by the way.)

If you have sufficient elevation, you really don't need a huge antenna. Digital TV is being broadcast on the same channel bands that analog has used for years, so the same antennas that worked for analog will work for digital. The only difference right now is that all the Springfield digitals are in the UHF band, but analogs are using both the VHF & UHF bands. After 2009, KOLR-DT will move back to VHF.

If your rabbit ears only have dipoles (no loop or bowtie), it is a VHF antenna and you may get slightly better reception with a loop, bowtie or even a yagi like the Silver Sensor. If you don't want an antenna sitting in the living room, you can very likely move the indoor antenna to the attic. For long cable runs, or if you'll be feeding the signal to multiple TVs, you may need a signal preamp - an amp that boosts the signal on the "antenna" end of the coax, not on the "TV" end. A good preamp is the Channel Master CM 7777 (http://warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm).

Bottom line, if you're going to buy a different antenna, the Silver Sensor (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Customer-reviews-for-Philips-Indoor-HDTV-Antenna-PHDTV1/sem/rpsm/oid/158311/rpem/ccd/productDetailReview.do) or a CM 4221 (http://warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm) is probably all you need at your location.

Okay, I got the Hisense receiver and the Silver Sensor Antenna today. I hooked them up and scanned for channels here in Springfield in order to test it out before I bring it to Lebanon tonight. I picked up the following on the scan:

3.1 (90%)
27.1 (90%)
19.1 (20-50%)

I also made it manually search for 10.1. It barely had a signal. If I moved the antenna around and up in the air it would go up to about 30% or so, but not good enough to keep a good signal.

Why is 10.1 such a weak signal when it is at the same location as 27.1? I'm guessing it is lower power.

I am on the bottom floor of a 4 story apartment complex, so that could be the problem.

Hopefully when I hook it up at my parents tonight I will be able to get 10.1.

21.1 also was a very weak signal here in Springfield. Hopefully it will come in at Lebanon too.

Maybe the silver sensor is just too weak. I may have to end up getting a outdoor antenna.

What kind of exterior wall covering is on the apt. building?
Brick, Metal Siding, Stucco?
Is there foil-backed insulation in the walls?
All of these will reduce the signal with an indoor antenna, sometimes significantly. Can you put the antenna near a window in the direction of the towers?

If your parents' house has some of these building materials, you may face the same problem there. Putting the antenna in the attic may or may not help - you may have install an outdoor antenna.

Alright, I got the Hisense receiver and Silver Sensor hooked up at Lebanon, and it worked better than I thought. I got these channels:

3.1 (NBCHD)
3.2 (CW)
3.3 (Weather Plus)
10.1 (CBS HD)
21.1 (PBS)
21.2 (PBSHD)
21.3 (not sure the name)
27.1 (FOXHD)

All of these channels come in with 80% or above reception quality and look great.

There are 2 problems though:

1. I cannot pull in KSPR (ABC) at all and I cannot figure out why. On their old antenna bunny ears, they picked up KSPR 33 fine. But with the silver sensor plugged in to their HD receiver, they can't get 33 analog or 19.1 Digital. I know you guys said 19.1 was really hard to get even in Springfield. But why in the world won't just the normal analog 33 come in? I check the antenna strength when searching for the 33 frequency and it never moves from 0%. I move the antenna around and it stays at 0%. I don't understand this. I even hooked their old bunny ears up to the receiver, but still no 33. How could they they pick it up with bunny ears straight to the TV, but not with a superior antenna going into an HD receiver?

2. I have an optical cable hooked up so they can get 5.1 on the HD programming. This sounds great, but everytime they change the channel to a non-HD program, the sound is channeled through only the front left speaker and is reduced to a much quieter volume. I then have to hit the surround button on the audio receiver remote and it switches back over to Dolby Pro Logic and sounds fine out of all of the speakers. This is very annoying having to hit that button every time SD content comes on. I'm guessing it is just a problem specific to my STB or audio receiver. I thought I would post it anyway to see if anyone has had similar issues with their setup.

Other than these issues it is working great! I really want to get 33 to come in though and don't want to have to wait until they go full power HD OTA.

If it's a digital-only tuner, you can't receive analog channels with it.
You'll have to use the TV's analog tuner for KSPR 33, until they build a full power digital transmitter.

If you can't figure out the DD audio problem, just connect a set of analog L+R RCA cables from the tuner to the audio receiver and set the receiver to DPL or DPL II.

If it's a digital-only tuner, you can't receive analog channels with it.
You'll have to use the TV's analog tuner for KSPR 33, until they build a full power digital transmitter.

Isn't 3.2 (CW) 3.3 (Weather Plus), and 21.1 (PBS) all analog stations coming in?

If they are all digital, then that would explain it. Why wouldn't the receiver work for analog too? You would have thought they would have included an analog tuner as well.

So, is the latest word on KSPR-DT full power the end of this year?

If you can't figure out the DD audio problem, just connect a set of analog L+R RCA cables from the tuner to the audio receiver and set the receiver to DPL or DPL II.

Yeah, I did this, but had a loud buzzing sound. Either the RCA cables were bad or the output connectors on the tuner or input connectors on the TV were bad. I will test this some more the next time I am at their house.

But if I did that I couldn't get DD on the HD programs.

It sounds like you have some cabling or grounding problems somewhere, or defective equipment.

Any channel with a dash- and subchannel is being broadcast digitally. Most digital add-on receivers don't include analog tuners. They only receive digital channels.

Low power digital is not an issue in most of the country, where the vast majority of big 4 network analog stations added full power digital transmitters long ago. So analog is not really needed in an add-on box.

Analog TV is like dead meat, rotting in the sun.

It sounds like you have some cabling or grounding problems somewhere, or defective equipment.

Any channel with a dash- and subchannel is being broadcast digitally. Most digital add-on receivers don't include analog tuners. They only receive digital channels.

Low power digital is not an issue in most of the country, where the vast majority of big 4 network analog stations added full power digital transmitters long ago. So analog is not really needed in an add-on box.

Analog TV is like dead meat, rotting in the sun.

Alright, I see. So what exactly is the hold up for KSPR going full power digital? I know I read some things in past posts on this, but still don't understand what is taking them so long.

Update for those with the dish 622. I finally got the latest software release on my receiver and it seems to have really helped with the issues we were all having on 10 and 27.

I did notice 10 was still cutting in and out but it's only getting about a 70% signal so I'm going to do some tweaking and see if I can fix that.

...So what exactly is the hold up for KSPR going full power digital? I know I read some things in past posts on this, but still don't understand what is taking them so long.
Money.

The previous station owner didn't want to spend the money for the full power digital transmitter.

Alright, I see. So what exactly is the hold up for KSPR going full power digital? I know I read some things in past posts on this, but still don't understand what is taking them so long.

KSPR is pretty close to being broke. Their only hope of survival is if KYTV "adopts" them. The FCC is concerned about monopolization of any market. They approve of "Virtual Duopolies" such as KOLR and KSFX.

The FCC recognizes two types of network affiliates. There are the majors such as ABC, NBC and CBS, and there are others such as Fox, CW, MyNetwork etc.

The FCC approves a few "Virtual Triopolies" such as KMIZ in Columbia that has ABC, Fox and MyNetwork, but note that they have only one "Major" network.

What needs to happen to make KYTV invest in KSPR is FCC approval of a "Virtual Triopoly" involving NBC, ABC and CW networks.

This is by no means a sure thing. If they've approved a triopoly involving 2 major networks it is probably in a market that has several strong independents or some other mitigating factor.

Of course the fact that KSPR is a bit of a sinking ship may nudge the FCC into approving this combination. I think their main concern here would be setting a precedent and being unable to dis-approve similar combinations in other markets.

I don't know how we will learn when or if this combination is approved, but until or unless it happens KSPR can't get the money to go full power digital.

I thought this was going to be an easy deal for KY3 takeing over 33. Sometimes I wonder if the FCC even thinks about us viewers.

If the satellite companys picks up the local HD channels will they be able to get 33HD like cable does? This is going to be terrible to have to watch the final 10 nascar races in SD.

I thought this was going to be an easy deal for KY3 takeing over 33. Sometimes I wonder if the FCC even thinks about us viewers.

If the satellite companys picks up the local HD channels will they be able to get 33HD like cable does? This is going to be terrible to have to watch the final 10 nascar races in SD.

That would be a bit tricky. Mediacom picks up KSPR HD at their studio and backhauls it via (their) fiber to the headend on Enterprise Ave. Both Dish and Direct TV, pick up off air signals from the KYTV studios, where it's fed by fiber to the respective sat carriers.

I suppose if someone wanted to pay for the bandwidth it could be hauled by fiber from the KSPR studio to the KYTV pickup point.

Satellite HD locals will be of lesser quality that the OTA broadcast signal, so if you have a choice, OTA would be the way to go.

[QUOTE=rhoops]KSPR is pretty close to being broke. Their only hope of survival is if KYTV "adopts" them. The FCC is concerned about monopolization of any market. They approve of "Virtual Duopolies" such as KOLR and KSFX.

What happened, I thought a TV station ownership was almost a licenses to print money.

Seriously anyone know how they ended up in this position and if the FCC doesn't approve any possible owners.

On another note, anyone remember the web address of the FCC that shows the elevation and power information, I may make a try at picking up Jonesbourgh, depending on power information, I am getting the analog fairly good.

What happened, I thought a TV station ownership was almost a licenses to print money.
Maybe once upon a time, but this certainly isn't true today. Viewers have vastly more channels -- and non-broadcast entertainment -- that they can watch besides local stations, so advertising revenues are probably lower nowadays.

Plus, digital broadcasting is hugely expensive. The government has required stations to do it, but they aren't footing the bill, the local stations are. Capital equipment costs are high, two sets of transmitters and associated equipment have to be maintained, the electric bill doubles to feed those two high power transmitters instead of one, etc etc.

... digital broadcasting is hugely expensive. The government has required stations to do it, but they aren't footing the bill...Yes the FCC required the switch to digital. Who requested digital TV? The broadcasters' lobbying organization, the NAB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_of_Broadcasters). Be careful what you wish for. You might actually get it.

...two sets of transmitters and associated equipment have to be maintained, the electric bill doubles to feed those two high power transmitters instead of one, etc etc.</violins>
Power bills are higher, but only until analog is shut down. And what will the power bills be then? For stations in the same channel band, only a small fraction of what it costs to power an analog transmitter. Long term, the power savings for many stations will be tremendous.

Take uh, KOZK for example:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html
KOZK-TV analog 21 - Effective Radiated Power=1,107 kW
KOZK-DT digital 23 - Effective Radiated Power = 100 kW

And a typical VHF station:
KAFT-TV analog 13 - Effective Radiated Power =316 kW
KAFT-DT digital 9 - Effective Radiated Power = 19 kW

[edit]
Don't forget multicasting. How many low quality stations could you broadcast on analog? 1
How many low quality channels do you broadcast on digital? 3
Some stations broadcast even more channels. For a fraction of the power used on an analog transmitter.

... anyone remember the web address of the FCC that shows the elevation and power information...
Enter only the town's name or a station's call letters at:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html

Here's a news item from last Fall.

An examination of FCC records show that the license for KSPR is still issued to Piedmont and not to Perkin Media. KYTV is operating KSPR, but for reasons mentioned above, or other unknown reasons the transfer of the FCC license hasn't happened.

Evidently the FCC is picky about who holds the license, but allows Joint Sales Agreements and Shared Service Agreements.

Right now KPSR is sort of like "Rent to Own".

----

KYTV parent company buys KSPR

But two stations will continue to operate separately, Perkin Media president says.

Didi Tang
News-Leader

The parent company of KYTV, the region's NBC affiliate, will soon be running ABC affiliate KSPR-TV as well, owners of the two stations announced Thursday.
The transfer of the FCC license is subject to federal approval and is expected to be completed in early 2007. However, management at KSPR will change on Oct. 1.

Viewers in the Springfield market will see little change because KYTV and KSPR will operate separately, said Bill Perkin, president and owner of Perkin Media, a marketing and consulting firm in Springfield.

"In many ways, they will still compete with each other," said Perkin.

But KSPR will benefit from the acquisition as well as the community because the station will see improvements, said Perkin.

KSPR has more than 50 employees, while KYTV employs more than 100.

The new management will soon be interviewing KSPR employees, said Perkin, and most KSPR employees are expected to stay.

KSPR, owned by Piedmont Television Holdings, was put up for sale last March, said Paul Brissette, president and CEO of the Charlotte, N.C.-based company.

Piedmont Television owns 11 stations from Anchorage to Springfield to Savannah, Ga., and the company wants to sell them all, said Brissette.

The Springfield deal is the first to be announced, he said.

"We go in to buy with the expectation to exit at some time," said Brissette. "We're not in for 50 years. We're investors."

In Springfield, KY3 Inc., a subsidiary of Schurz Communications in South Bend, Ind., was interested in buying the station, but there was an issue.

"KY3 is not able to own another FCC license," said Perkin, so a partnership came in, in which Perkin Media will acquire KSPR's FCC license and intellectual property, while KY3 Inc. will be in charge of operations at KSPR, he said.

"Sales and news will be operated by KY3," he said.

KSPR will keep its own news staff, and the station can benefit from KYTV in terms of equipment, said Perkin.

The arrangements are similar to those between KSFX and KOLR in Springfield.

Nexstar Broadcasting Group owns KSFX, a Fox affiliate, but it runs KOLR, a CBS affiliate that is owned by Mission Broadcasting Inc. The two stations share one newsroom and one general manager.

The relationship between KYTV and KSPR would not get that close, said Perkin.

The deal between KYTV and KSPR does not affect his stations, said Mark Gordon, general manager for KSFX and KOLR.

"I don't believe it will mean anything," said Gordon. "Each station has its unique audience. ... It's a positive thing for the community. KSPR will remain a full-service television station."

Because KYTV is the top news station in the local market, Brissette believes KSPR employees will benefit.

"It's a great opportunity for the employees," said Brissette. "... The employees are very fortunate. We sincerely believe in that."

Nice info rhoops,so when might the work begin to go full power HD? Will it be after Oct. 1st, or does anyone have any ideas?
(channel 33)
Also does anyone know why some of KY3's HD show's are SD for awhile at the beginning and maybe half over before it goes HD? I see that the nightly news is in HD now.

Nice info rhoops,so when might the work begin to go full power HD? Will it be after Oct. 1st, or does anyone have any ideas?
(channel 33)

That's a very old news item from last Fall. It is Oct 1, 2006 they were talking about. KYTV took over effective management of KSPR on that date.

I only brought that old item out because if things were going as expected the license would have already transferred and KYTV would be building the HD station.

The current licensee, Piedmont, only wants to cash out and they certainly don't want to build the HD. KYTV would be foolish to spend that huge sum of money for something they can never own.

So we're stuck until the FCC moves on this issue.

Yes the FCC required the switch to digital. Who requested digital TV? The broadcasters' lobbying organization, the NAB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_of_Broadcasters). Be careful what you wish for. You might actually get it.
Like any large or national organization, the position of the NAB on a given issue does not necessarily reflect that of all of its members, or of broadcasters in general. And it is possible to be in favor of DTV while still feeling that the implementation and handling of the transition has been boneheaded (which is my personal feeling, and I think the FCC, broadcasters, and the CE manufacturers are all to blame).

Take uh, KOZK for example:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html
KOZK-TV analog 21 - Effective Radiated Power=1,107 kW
KOZK-DT digital 23 - Effective Radiated Power = 100 kW

And a typical VHF station:
KAFT-TV analog 13 - Effective Radiated Power =316 kW
KAFT-DT digital 9 - Effective Radiated Power = 19 kW
Let's back up a minute... effective radiated power (ERP) takes in to account antenna gain and transmission system losses (like transmission line, etc.). Without that information, ERP doesn't tell you much about the underlying transmitter power output (TPO).

Also, analog and digital power levels are measured differently. Analog is peak power of the visual carrier, digital is average power across the channel.

For current analog UHFs moving (or already on) VHF for digital, yes, there will be considerable savings since less power is needed at VHF than UHF for the same coverage area. For others, there will be some savings in having new transmitters with newer, more efficient technology than the old analog transmitters they may have been relying on for many years.

Power bills are higher, but only until analog is shut down.
By the time analog shutdown gets here, some stations will have been operating both analog and DTV transmitters for over a decade (nobody in this market though). That's no small chunk of change.

I'm not trying to say (nor do I know) that this has anything to do with KSPR or what their situation is -- just that there are plenty of expenses involved that we often don't think about.

...The current licensee, Piedmont, only wants to cash out and they certainly don't want to build the HD....Don't they only have a certain amount of time to get a full power digital (not necessarily HD) station on the air, or lose interference protection for channel 19 in this DMA?

If they lose interference protection, their "cash out" value won't be worth very much.

i guess it is all about customer service. oh wait there isnt any at a few of the locals. sure would be nice if they were all locally owned again and had an owner that cared

It was reported on KY3 news yesterday morning that people will be getting $80.00 to purchase digital tuners for the change over in '09.

It was reported on KY3 news yesterday morning that people will be getting $80.00 to purchase digital tuners for the change over in '09.
Tell us more. I didn't see that.

[Envisions gigantic waste of taxpayer's money]

Tell us more. I didn't see that.
More info in this NTIA press release (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/press/2007/DTVfinalrule_031207.htm).

Starting 1/1/08 everyone can get up to 2 $40 coupons to be applied toward the cost of a basic STB/converter. After the initial money runs out, there may be more money allocated, but only households relying exclusively on over the air reception would qualify for the second round.

Tell us more. I didn't see that.

[Envisions gigantic waste of taxpayer's money]
The government will actually make a great deal of revenue on this deal. The spectrum above channel 50 will be available for sale to cellular and other wireless providers. The cost of the set top box coupons will be a very small portion of the expected revenue from sale of that spectrum.

Isn't it channels 52 thru 69 that will be vacated by traditional TV broadcasters?

AP article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070428/ap_on_hi_te/rabbit_ear_revival_6).

Isn't it channels 52 thru 69 that will be vacated by traditional TV broadcasters?

I dunno, but it's something like that.

Can anyone tell me when Direct Tv is going to roll out HD locals in the Springfield, MO market? I live at Lake of the Ozarks and I am told I am in the Springfield region. Thanks!!

"......coming soon........."
Seriously, Springfield is on the "soon" list, but probably won't be added until late this year or sometime next year. Of course, KSPR (ABC-HD) won't be on there unless they run a fiber link from the station to the local D* uplink facility (unlikely).

If you have D*, to get the locals in HD you'll need a 5LNB dish and a D* MPEG4 HD receiver.

If you want the highest picture quality, install an OTA antenna and be done with it. Higher resolution than D* (1920x1080i OTA vs 1220x1080i on D*, more reliable and reception is FREE.

Thanks for that. I do have the 5lnb dish and an HR20-700. I am having line of sight issues so I cannot get the locals dish because of trees and OTA is a problem in Osage Beach I am told. I need to know of someone who can install an OTA better than I.

Your location zip code shows 84119 ???

Thanks! Fixed it. Just moved to Missouri.

Anyone have any problems with audio delay on CBS HD OTA? On my parents set up they have the Hisense HD tuner hooked up to their audio decoder with an optical cable. It seems like almost every show that is run in HD (and has dolby digital sound) has like a half a second audio delay. But on CBS it is terrible. It is like a full second sometimes and is unwatchable. I don't know if it is just their cheap audio decoder or what. Could it possibly be a cheap optical cable? I have heard that some other people have had problems with CBS HD audio lag though.

The thing that sucks is that there is no fix for it without new equipment. If the audio was ahead of the video you could just put in a speaker delay. But when the audio is behind you are screwed.

I live in Pittsburg, KS and I am only able to pull in KOAM (CBS), KFJX (FOX) and 3 PBS channels over the air. No signal at all from KSNF (NBC) or KODE (ABC). I am using a Samsung DTB-H260F tuner with an amplified indoor antenna. CBS comes in 1080i, FOX comes in 480i and always 4:3, one PBS channel comes in 720p @16:9 and the other two are 480i.
I live in Parsons. I found an antenna in my attic from previous house owner have a Sony KDL 32S2000 tv ( I wish I would have waited prices have dropped) with no antenna amplifier . Able to get KOAM and Fox but no PBS channels. Can I expect KSN& KODE to have no signals from where I'm at for some time or does FCC law require them to upgrade in the future?

At some point, if low power stations don't increase power they will lose interference protection for the channel that's been given to them. They may also face possible fines.

And in about 653 days from now when analog TV is shut down, they'll lose most of their OTA viewers if they don't increase their digital power.

FWIW, Parsons is within KOZJ-DT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KOZJ)'s (pbs) digital coverage area, so you should be able to receive their 3 digital channels with a decent outdoor UHF antenna (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm) and low noise preamp (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm). Attics often reduce signal strength by ~50% or even more, depending on what your walls and roof are made of.
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT1132897.gif

Concerning digital broadcasts from Joplin stations KODE (ABC) and KSNF (NBC), I contacted them directly and was told that they won't broadcast at full power until late 2008. Apparenetly they broadcast at some minimum power to just so they can be on the digital list.

"......coming soon........."
Seriously, Springfield is on the "soon" list, but probably won't be added until late this year or sometime next year. Of course, KSPR (ABC-HD) won't be on there unless they run a fiber link from the station to the local D* uplink facility (unlikely).

If you have D*, to get the locals in HD you'll need a 5LNB dish and a D* MPEG4 HD receiver.

If you want the highest picture quality, install an OTA antenna and be done with it. Higher resolution than D* (1920x1080i OTA vs 1220x1080i on D*, more reliable and reception is FREE.

I was told here at Lake of the Ozarks we are not in range of the OTA HD. Does this sound accurate? If not, I want someone to my house right away.

Depending on your elevation and the height of hills between you and the transmitters, you may be in the coverage area for these stations. Click the call letters for maps:
KYTV-DT 3-n (http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT594131.gif)
KOLR-DT 10-n (http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT1069148.gif)
KSFX-DT 27-n (http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT621836.gif)
And possibly KOZK-DT 21-n (http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT680542.gif)

Additionally, you may be able to get one or more HD networks (abc, cbs, fox, nbc) from New York City via DirecTV, if your address qualifies. Enter your address at this site (http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressForm.aspx) to see.

If it does, D* will add the qualifying stations at no additional monthly cost if you already subscribe to standard def Springfield locals. Just call and ask to speak to the "HD DNS department."

I was told here at Lake of the Ozarks we are not in range of the OTA HD. Does this sound accurate? If not, I want someone to my house right away.

I think Osage Beach is in the Columbia-Jeff City DMA. I was there last week, and pulled KMIZ,KRCG, KOMU, KY3, KOLR, and KSFX with no problems on an outside antenna.

ZIP Code 65065 is in two DMAs (http://www.directv.com/locals). If you order DirecTV (SD) locals, the channels they give is based solely on which county you tell them you live in.

If you tell them Miller County, they give you:
PBS KMOS 6 (http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT622063.gif)
NBC KOMU 8 (http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT606184.gif)
CBS KRCG 13 (http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/TV1017197.gif)
CW CW 14
ABC KMIZ 17 (http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT1135342.gif)
IND KNLJ 25 (http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT622063.gif)
FOX KQFX 38

If you tell them you live in Camden county:
NBC KYTV 3
CBS KOLR 10
CW KCZ 15
PBS KOZK 21
FOX KSFX 27
MNT KWBM 31
ABC KSPR 33

OTA reception of the stations above will vary greatly, depending on elevation and surrounding terrain.

As some of you may remember, we used a small box to convert SMPTE 310 to ASI in our transmission chain. We discovered that we had to set the input data rate to a lower value than the output data rate to prevent buffer overflows and the audio/video glitch that was causing problems.

I think that solved about 95% of the problem but I was still hearing an audio burp about one or two times an hour.

This data conversion box can be replaced with an internal card in our Tandberg encoder and that is what we are prepared to do.

Here's where you can help: We won't make the change for a day or two, so I would like to hear reports about signal quality on KOLR-DT for the past few months and next few days. What problems do/did you see/hear and how often?

I'll post here when we make the change and then you can tell us if we're 100% or still need some work.

Thanks in advance for your report.

rhoops,

Thanks for the info.

I noticed Sunday while I was watching the race on 27 and they would put up the weather bug, it would go to SD. I thought 10 and 27 could do this and remain in HD, or is channel 10 the only that can do this?

I noticed Sunday while I was watching the race on 27 and they would put up the weather bug, it would go to SD. I thought 10 and 27 could do this and remain in HD, or is channel 10 the only that can do this?

Currently only KOLR can super over HD. The KSFX system is wired a little differently. The plans include a way to super over HD, but it's not implemented yet.

Currently only KOLR can super over HD. The KSFX system is wired a little differently. The plans include a way to super over HD, but it's not implemented yet.

Thanks rhoops, it will be nice if you do get this working on 27 also, and I hope KY3 can do this in the future without alot of expense.

Wed May 9th

33min into Jericho there was a short audio glitch, sounding like static for less than a second.

Another Glitch of the same type at 53 min.

Wed May 9th

33min into Jericho there was a short audio glitch, sounding like static for less than a second.

Another Glitch of the same type at 53 min.

Thanks! That's what I heard too. When we go to the internal Tandberg card I'll post here and we can do comparisons. Your help is greatly appreciated.

KSPR had 2 flies thrown in the ointment. I did some checking and found two 'competitors' of KSPR had filed objections to the transfer of KSPR to KY/Perkin. (One is KWBM, the other is KRBK, which hasn't been built yet)

So thank those two for the slowdown here.

Typical stalling tactics of Equity Broadcasting (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_det.pl?Facility_id=78314) out of Little Rock. They're doing all they can to stop KFTA in Ft. Smith from going forward with FOX programming that used to be carried on one of their LPTV stations. They've also filed co-channel interference complaints against KFTA-DT.

I seriously doubt if KRBK will ever get on the air. Their (analog) CP should expire in a little over 600 days from now....

Typical stalling tactics of Equity Broadcasting (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_det.pl?Facility_id=78314) out of Little Rock. They're doing all they can to stop KFTA in Ft. Smith from going forward with FOX programming that used to be carried on one of their LPTV stations. They've also filed co-channel interference complaints against KFTA-DT.

I seriously doubt if KRBK will ever get on the air. Their (analog) CP should expire in a little over 600 days from now....

KRBK will likely sign on as a DT. For example, Equity signed KTUW on in Scottsbluff as a DT instead of an analog signal.

KRBK will likely sign on as a DT... It seems like they would have to have a DT application (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=166319) w/ the FCC.

I live at Lake of the Ozarks (Osage Beach) and have two issues:

1) I work over 70 hours so I do not currently have the time to figure out how to work/install an OTA antenna.
2) I will pay someone at the Lake area some extra money assuming they will do it for less than DTV-$75.

Thanks!

capnlando1,
Did you check your address (http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressForm.aspx) to see if D* will give you the NY HD channels?

Disregard the "$1.50/month per-channel" shown on that page. HD networks are free if your address qualifies and you already subscribe to SD locals on D*.

capnlando1,
Did you check your address (http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressForm.aspx) to see if D* will give you the NY HD channels?

Disregard the "$1.50/month per-channel" shown on that page. HD networks are free if your address qualifies and you already subscribe to SD locals on D*.

This is what I got....Fact is, I have trees that prevent me from getting locals on a second dish so I think my only option is to do OTA although getting locals (especially HD locals) through other affiliates (e.g. NY or LA) is fine with me.
___________
Standard Distant Network Service
Not available because DIRECTV offers local network programming in your area


Digital (HD) Distant Network Service
Network Affiliate Status
ABC Eligible
CBS KRCG-DT Grade B (moderate signal)
FOX Eligible
NBC Eligible

Other info:
* I am on the Springfield side of Osage Beach, MO.
* I want DTV b/c of NFL Sunday Ticket

This is what I got...

Digital (HD) Distant Network Service
Network Affiliate Status
ABC Eligible
CBS KRCG-DT Grade B (moderate signal)
FOX Eligible
NBC Eligible

Call DirecTV at 800 531-5000.
Choose the option for programming changes.
Press 0 to speak to a representative.
Ask to be connected to the HD DNS department.

Tell them you are eligible for the channels above and you would like them to be activated.

They will have to add locals to your package, even though you don't have the 2nd dish to receive them. Around 2 or 3 dollars a month extra.
Locals subscription is required to qualify for the above channels. No addl charge for the NY HD channels though, if your address qualifies.

For CBS, they will send a waiver request to the station. It will likely be denied.

Call DirecTV at 800 531-5000.
Choose the option for programming changes.
Press 0 to speak to a representative.
Ask to be connected to the HD DNS department.

Tell them you are eligible for the channels above and you would like them to be activated.

They will have to add locals to your package, even though you don't have the 2nd dish to receive them. Around 2 or 3 dollars a month extra.
Locals subscription is required to qualify for the above channels. No addl charge for them, though.

For CBS, they will send a waiver request to the station. It will likely be denied.


Thanks a ton! I followed what you said and was told that I now need to wait up to 45 days to hear about the waiver situation and that "it will most likely be denied since most are." How encouraging. I hope there are other options through my 5lnb Slim-line to receive locals in HD. Thanks!

Did they turn on the channels you qualified for?

Although behind schedule, Springfield is on the "soon (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=914114&highlight)" list for HD locals on D*. If you're in the Springfield DMA, they will be added automatically to your programming when they finally get on the satellite. You won't need the 2nd dish - just a sub to SD locals.

Did they turn on the channels you qualified for?

Although behind schedule, Springfield is on the "soon (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=914114&highlight)" list for HD locals on D*. If you're in the Springfield DMA, they will be added automatically to your programming when they finally get on the satellite. You won't need the 2nd dish - just a sub to SD locals.

They didn't turn any channels on and said they couldn't until a waiver was granted from the local affiliates. What is my leverage point with this?

Any ideas of how of "soon" DTV will be rolling out local HD in the Springfield market? Guesses?

Why does everyone write D*?
What do SD locals mean? Does it mean Sandard Definition?

You have been very helpful! Thank you!

I'm in west Springfield (near W. Bypass & Sunshine) and just got Dish Network and an OTA HD antenna installed (Terk HDTVo outdoor antenna mounted to the satellite dish). So far, all of the OTA channels come in great except for KSFX (Fox), I'm getting a lost signal about once an hour. Oddly enough, I wasn't expecting to get KSPR 33, but the signal came in quite well. The picture quality is definately an improvement over what Mediacom provides.

Yesterday I noticed Mediacom is carrying OPT in high def only if you're using a digital QAM tuner (not via one of their cable boxes). It wasn't showing up on the program guide of my HD cable box (before I returned it and cancelled my service with them today).

rdawg,
Terk antennas are about the worst OTA antenna you can use. A better antenna may solve your reception problems.

They didn't turn any channels on and said they couldn't until a waiver was granted from the local affiliates. What is my leverage point with this?

Any ideas of how of "soon" DTV will be rolling out local HD in the Springfield market? Guesses?

Why does everyone write D*?
What do SD locals mean? Does it mean Sandard Definition?

You have been very helpful! Thank you!

You only need a waiver for stations listed as "Grade B." Call D* back and get in touch with the HD DNS department. Ask to speak to a supervisor and ask them to check your eligibility. Be polite, but firm.

If a station shows ELIGIBLE on the D* site previously posted, they can activate the stations immediately. This is assuming you have opted for local SD channels (regardless of whether you had the 2nd dish installed or not - you only need to pay for locals).

On AVSForum:
D* is shorthand for DirecTV
E* is shorthand for Echostar Dishnetork
SD = Standard Definition
HD = High Definition
DTV = Digital Television (usually referring to OTA DTV)
OTA = OverTheAir

D* is way behind adding local HD channels to satellite. OKC, Tulsa, Springfield and LR markets were supposed to be added late last year, but weren't. However, OKC and Tulsa markets recently got their HD locals added to satellite, so it shouldn't be too long before Springfield channels are added.

You only need a waiver for stations listed as "Grade B." Call D* back and get in touch with the HD DNS department. Ask to speak to a supervisor and ask them to check your eligibility. Be polite, but firm.

If a station shows ELIGIBLE on the D* site previously posted, they can activate the stations immediately. This is assuming you have opted for local SD channels (regardless of whether you had the 2nd dish installed or not - you only need to pay for locals).

On AVSForum:
D* is shorthand for DirecTV
E* is shorthand for Echostar Dishnetork
SD = Standard Definition
HD = High Definition
DTV = Digital Television (usually referring to OTA DTV)
OTA = OverTheAir

D* is way behind adding local HD channels to satellite. OKC, Tulsa, Springfield and LR markets were supposed to be added late last year, but weren't. However, OKC and Tulsa markets recently got their HD locals added to satellite, so it shouldn't be too long before Springfield channels are added.

You have helped me a ton. I really appreciate it! I did indeed have to be firm yet kind as they again tried to say that I needed to get waivers. However, I walked them through their own website on directv.com and convinced them that I was eligble for DNS. Hilarious that I have to educate them by you through proxy. Anyways, thanks! I have ABC, NBC, FOX but no CBS. I am crossing my fingers on CBS granting a waiver...

Glad you were able to show them that your address was, in fact, eligible for free HD DNS and no waivers were needed except for CBS.

Not sure when Springfield HD locals will be added to D*, but it will be posted here as soon as info becomes available. IIRC, they have the bandwidth on the existing sats that are already launched. And significantly more bandwidth will be added if the D* HD satellite launch, scheduled for 20 June, is successful.

I checked my address to see if I would be eligible, results.

ABC KSPR A Strong
ABC KODE B Moderate
CBS KOLR A
Fox KSFX A
NBC KYTV A

This is not very accurate because I sure can't get either ABC DT network.
I thought I might get D* if I could qualify for ABC, looks like they have a lot of HD channels comming this fall.

No, it is not accurate at all. The only channel it shows I get at my address is one in Fort Smith that I do not get at all. It shows it as "Grade A Strong." But it is what DirecTV uses to allow/deny reception of HD DNS channels.

IF the launch of the new D* HD sat on June 20 is successful, we'll probably be seeing a lot of ads soon thereafter for new HD channels. According to other forums, they already have a lot of channels waiting.

HD channels likely coming soon on DIRECTV:
-- A&E -- National Geographic
-- Bravo -- NFL Network
-- Cartoon Network -- SciFi Channel
-- CNN -- Speed
-- Food Network -- TBS
-- Big Ten Network -- The History Channel
-- HGTV -- The Weather Channel
-- MTV -- USA Network
-- Disney Channel -- Versus HD
-- Toon Disney -- TLC
-- ABC Family -- Animal Planet
-- ESPNNEWS HD -- The Science Channel
-- Starz E/W feeds -- Discovery Channel
-- Starz Edge -- The Tennis Channel
-- Starz Comedy -- Showtime West
-- Starz Kids & Family -- The Movie Channel
-- CNBC -- Chiller

Full news article HERE (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1006125&highlight=)

It seems like they would have to have a DT application (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=166319) w/ the FCC.

Actually Equity had this problem in Nebraska. They had a CP for 16 in Scottsbluff. They decided it was easier (and cheaper) to sign it on as a DT now (and their CP was due to expire) and that's exactly what they did. It was a matter of telling the FCC they opted to flash cut before hitting the air.

Rhoops: I've got a problem. My Sanyo HD unit can't find a mapping for KOLR-DT. It finds KSFX just fine, but can't put KOLR in there. (I can get KOLR-DT in my Directv HR10 and HR20 just fine) Thoughts?

OK, I need some help. Still having QAM problems with my Panasonic 50px60u. When I do a search, I come up with 62-13 (fox) and 62-14 (CBS). It doesn't pick up 3-1 (KY3) or 33-1(KSPR). However, occasionally, I can manually tune 3-1 or 33-1, but very rarely. I also am not always able to get 62-13 or 62-14, and NEVER are all 4 listed in the channel scan. Any ideas? Is it a signal strength problem? I do not want to wait ofr a Mediacom rep to come to the house, and I know a phone call with this question will be wasted.

Rhoops: I've got a problem. My Sanyo HD unit can't find a mapping for KOLR-DT. It finds KSFX just fine, but can't put KOLR in there. (I can get KOLR-DT in my Directv HR10 and HR20 just fine) Thoughts?

Do you get anything when you manually punch in channel 52?

OK, I need some help. Still having QAM problems with my Panasonic 50px60u. When I do a search, I come up with 62-13 (fox) and 62-14 (CBS). It doesn't pick up 3-1 (KY3) or 33-1(KSPR). However, occasionally, I can manually tune 3-1 or 33-1, but very rarely. I also am not always able to get 62-13 or 62-14, and NEVER are all 4 listed in the channel scan. Any ideas? Is it a signal strength problem? I do not want to wait ofr a Mediacom rep to come to the house, and I know a phone call with this question will be wasted.

It could be a signal strength problem. I have a Mediacom HD Box, a Motorloa 6214. and it has trouble locking onto KOLR and KSFX but does well the the others.

KYTV and KSPR were on cable RF channel 16 last time I checked. I just noticed that Mediacom has KOZK-HD mapped to channel 713, but I don't know what RF channel they are on.

yeah, when i type in 16, it'll go to 3-1 occasionally. Not alwys, just about 10% of the time. I am really confused...

yeah, when i type in 16, it'll go to 3-1 occasionally. Not alwys, just about 10% of the time. I am really confused...

Maybe you should try an antenna instead of cable for your HDTV. You'll get everything except KSPR and it will be better quality.

It could be a signal strength problem. I have a Mediacom HD Box, a Motorloa 6214. and it has trouble locking onto KOLR and KSFX but does well the the others.

KYTV and KSPR were on cable RF channel 16 last time I checked. I just noticed that Mediacom has KOZK-HD mapped to channel 713, but I don't know what RF channel they are on.

I did a few connection changes then a rescan and now I get KOLR-HD. It looks excellent =)

Maybe you should try an antenna instead of cable for your HDTV. You'll get everything except KSPR and it will be better quality.
yeah, I have an antenna in, but I miss KSPR pretty often. Just want to get all the channels!!! As soon as DIsh or directv goes with HD locals, I am going there...

yeah, I have an antenna in, but I miss KSPR pretty often. Just want to get all the channels!!! As soon as DIsh or directv goes with HD locals, I am going there...

Mediacom can carry KSPR-HD because they use their own equipment and fiber to backhaul to their headend.

Both Dish and Direct TV pick up their signals at KY3 studios and fiber them to their uplinks. They won't be able to access KSPR's HD signal until KSPR gets on the air with that, and that won't happen soon.

In other words, Dish and Direct TV can't provide you with anything you can't get over the air for free unless someone decides to fiber or microwave KSPR's signal across town. I don't think you will see that happen.

Mediacom can carry KSPR-HD because they use their own equipment and fiber to backhaul to their headend.

Both Dish and Direct TV pick up their signals at KY3 studios and fiber them to their uplinks. They won't be able to access KSPR's HD signal until KSPR gets on the air with that, and that won't happen soon.

In other words, Dish and Direct TV can't provide you with anything you can't get over the air for free unless someone decides to fiber or microwave KSPR's signal across town. I don't think you will see that happen.
I think I should go and punch someone in the face at KSPR. Think that would help?????

Keith, in the LR, AR thread sent me a PM to let me know that http://www.tvfool.com has just added more coverage map overlays to download and use with Google Earth software. Sprinfield & Joplin areas are now available.

See this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10661630#post10661630) for details.

Very helpful for those having reception problems with particular station(s).

I think I should go and punch someone in the face at KSPR. Think that would help?????

Only if you are very, very rich. They could then sue you and get the money to put HD on the air. It's a very expensive proposition to put HD on the air, and they don't have the money or enough cash flow to borrow the money.

KYTV does have the money, but needs to take control in order to secure that investment, and they haven't been able to do that.

Earlier posts on this forum mentioned the entities that were complaining to the FCC about this proposed "merger". I would think those are the prospective "face punchees".

With CBS and Fox in the hands of one entity and NBC, CW and ABC in the hands of another, there wouldn't be much compeition.

ABC network should take it over.

ABC doesn't do O&Os in small markets unless they can serve a bigger market. Case in point are Toledo (WTVG) & Flint (WJRT). Those two are owned by ABC simply because they were to be used as a backup plan in case they lost WXYZ as an affiliate (Scripps used WXYZ as a ploy to get ABC on most of their stations, minus Tulsa & KC)

Actually, I was kidding.....

I have a samsung htb-h260f set-top box I just got a few days ago. I'm taking it back by the way because this HD stuff is a mess... I'm not paying this much to be a guinea pig LOL

Anyways, I switched from my OTA air antenna and plugged in my cable to see what I could get over QAM. Well on the 84-* channels I'm able to pick up music choice digital music channels, randomly in the 70's I'm getting movies. The best I can figure is that I'm picking up PPV or on demand stuff *shrug* who knows. Just purely curious to see if anyone else sees this. Also, why the hell isn't PBS on mediacom? Or did I miss it.

Like I said, I'm taking the set-top box back to Best Buy. I'm just thoroughly unimpressed. OK, I watched 2 things in the past 5 days that were cool, but for the most part I don't care. Some channels are actually in 720p or 1080i some aren't. Some broadcast in DD5.1 some don't. It's just a mess. I'll come back to HD when this crap gets cleared up.

Also, why the hell isn't PBS on mediacom? Or did I miss it.

KOZK-HD is on Mediacom QAM.