Has anyone in or around Springfield been able to get KOLR (CBS) ch52? I can get KYTV (NBC) 44 and KDEB (FOX) 28. But seems that KDEB is only DTV and does not pass any 720p content? I thought that KDEB and KOLR shared a tower in Fordland? So wonder what happen to

No. My information is that they are broadcasting a VERY LOW POWER signal only to comply with the FCC. You would almost have to live directly under the antenna to get it. Don't be fooled by what you may see at antennaweb.org. Just because a station is "live" doesn't mean it is full power or even broadcasting HD content.
The only local station broadcasting a full power HDTV signal AFAIK is KYTV (NBC). They not only broadcast full power but provide all the HD programming the network provides. What they do is vastly superior to the grudging lip service paid by most of the other network's worthless local affiliates. I understand that KOZK (PBS) is set to go full power in a few days. Yay! The rest (KSPR (ABC), KOLR (CBS), KDEB (FOX), etc) have been such foot-dragging turds I refuse to watch them.

I am able to receive KY-3 HDTV down in Branson and digital UPN-15, but am not able to get 27 in Ditgital. Are they also low power like KOLR-10. Hopefully if we keep contacting KOLR they will boost their signal.

I'm not sure if this will make you feel bad, but from here in Columbia, I have pulled in KY3 on 44, KOLR on 52, and KDEB on 28. CBS and Fox appeared to be upconverts, without PSIP information. Does anyone have info on KSPR's progress?

Originally posted by KE0MI
I'm not sure if this will make you feel bad, but from here in Columbia, I have pulled in KY3 on 44, KOLR on 52, and KDEB on 28. CBS and Fox appeared to be upconverts, without PSIP information. Does anyone have info on KSPR's progress?
Make me feel bad? You suck. ;)
I don't know what these stations are thinking. The guys at the shop where I bought my TV claim KOLR and KDEB could go full power anytime. They won't because they think there is no demand. They just do the minimum the MUST do to stay out of trouble with the FCC. The TV shops tell them they have sold lots of HD ready sets and people would buy tuners if there were something to see. Classic chicken/egg crap... drives me nuts.
Same guys tell me KSPR has an FCC granted extension due to "financial difficulties". No details. No idea when it expires or what will happen when it does.

I live at Crane and KY3 is all I can get.I've had my tv 5 months now and I am very disappointed with our local channels. I run a scan about everyday and get nothing except KY3 and UPN15,so thats who I watch.I would sure like to see KY3 do there news in widescreen though.Surely the other stations will wakeup someday.Can't wait to get my 921 I've had ordered for months now.I'm tired of just Jay Leno, I want to see more HD and soon.Keep us posted with any new info on our locals.

Here is an e-mail conversation that took place between myself and a KOLR

Thanks for your interest in KOLR10 & FOX27s digital braodcast. KOLR10s
DTV
is on Channel 52 & FOX27s DTV is on channel 28. We have no immediate
plans
of broadcasting in HDTV but are currently broadcasting SDTV(standard
definition) as of mid June. We are both low power so the signal will
cover
Springfield & the immediate surrounding areas to the South, North &
East.
We have no immediate plans of broadcasting full power which would
duplicate
our existing analog (NTSC) coverage. If you have any more questions,
please
feel free to e-mail me again.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mr. Lucas [SMTP:adamlitchy@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 9:23 PM
To: david@kolr10.com
Subject: dtv

Hello,

While I've been told by people at your station that you guys have no
plans
to broadcast in HDTV (which is really crappy) I am still interested in
checking out your SDTV station, and comparing it to KY3's real HDTV
signals.

According to http://www.antennaweb.org you are broadcasting a DTV
signal on
channel 52. However, they have had that up for quite some time before
I
was told you would go live. So I thought I'd write and find out if you
were really broadcasting a DTV signal on 52. Can you help me out?

Thanks,

Thank you KOZK 21 you dune it. I've got you good here in Crane.Just hope you will pass on HD when it's available.There are 3 channels of you to,thats great. Maybe this will encourage ABC,CBS and FOX to turn up the power.

Not Springfield but nearby, Joplin. It's actually worse here, KODE and KSNF are broadcasting in what they call 480p, I hooked up a Samsung HD tuner last night and frankly it was worse than the regular 480i signal. I took the HD tuner back. Our CBS station comes from Pittsburg, KS (KOAM) and they too are only broadcasting a SDTV signal with just enough power to cover Pittsburg. No hopes to get any HD signal over the air any time soon.
-Brian

Hello...
I'm in Branson, and I've been looking into getting an OTA antenna. Is the concensus that KY3 is the only HD channel around here? There hasn't been a post since September, so I was wondering how much progress has been made. Basically, I wonder if the expense of the hardware (antenna, tuner for pc, etc...) is worth it. Would anyone in Branson be allow me to take a look?
JJ

I can now get PBS in HD in Branson, It has a lower signal strength then KY3 but comes in fine as long as my son has not moved the antena so he can watch Yu-Gi-Oh on 31. My program guide on my STB shows 27-1 and 10-1 but I have never gotten a signal on them.

crwillared...
How much did you have to spend to get HD working? What is STB?
JJ

I am on the waiting list for the HDTV TiVo and trying to figure out what antenna to use to get digital OTA. Hopefully I will have it in a month. I am just south of the Cape Fair boat dock and with a rooftop antenna get NTSC reception ok on some channels but not all. Hoping to continue NTSC reception with the antenna until DirecTV adds local channels and then use it for digital OTA but can either add a second antenna or replace the existing antenna if necessary. I am guessing I am about 70 miles from the towers but haven't taken the time to figure it out yet. Anybody have any ideas for an antenna? I have read some about Winegard and Channel Master antennas which might work. It sounds like KYTV is the only possibility now.

Chris

The antenna web predicts I won't be able to get any digital reception. I hope it is wrong.

Chris

Anyone have any new news about any locals??

I am too about ready to pull the plug in Springfield and upgrade my dish to HD.

Mediacom now does offer HD but it will cost about $72/month for it and they are not doing any pass-thru with local content.

For the money, it is worth to me to keep my dish, but I want more local content/stations in HD.

Is KOZK broadcasting in HD or digitial?

I know that KOLR is not and will not be broadcasting HD at all over the next couple of years because it isnt even in their budget to upgrade their equipment. Which just plain sucks.

thanks

THX10

I do get KOZK in HD but its only from about 6 at night.. What HD content does mediacom carry.. I am getting most of my HD content over DISH.
Its just SUCKS that kolr10 wont step up to the plate and upgrade to pass HD content I have called and emailed them severial times...

Mediacom only offers that basic stuff right now. ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD, HDNet, HDMovie, HDBravo.

They are not, at this time, going to even offer KY3 (or any other local/nation feeds) in HD and their receivers do not double as OTA. Plus the receivers you get from the (Motorola) dont even have a DVI or HDMI input. Couple that with a price of about $72 per month minimum and their deal is just plain bad.

When you call KOLR, just ask for one of their engineers. That is what I did. You get a lot better answer from someone that understands the situation instead of someone at a front desk. It is sad that a locally owned station (KY3) is way ahead of a national owned (KOLR10) station. Guess it is better to buy local. LOL

As far as KOZK, that is great they offer HD.

So I assume it is worth it. I should go ahead and order the Sat package from DirecTV?

Chris

Well, I got an email last night from KOZK. Apparently they are broadcasting in HD from 6:00pm until 5:30am

I am not sure what format, I asked that this morning with as a followup question and to make sure it is HD and not just digital.

I also spoke with KOLR, KDEB, and KSPR. The engineers that I spoke with said that they have absolutely no plans go HD until the FCC forces them to. THis is pathetic. There are smaller markets out there with more HD stations. sigh

Just got another email from Brent Moore at KOZK. He said they do broadcast in 1080i.

SWEET. Now just need to figure out what service to get.

I have been with DirecTV for 10 years but am thinking about switching since the best they can offer me is $150 off my account.

Anyone have Mediacom in High Def?

Dish has just added TNT-HD to their line up :-) Why cant the other locals SEE the light there are many smaller DMAs with MORE HD ???

You hit the nail on the head with that one.

It is so frustrating that our DMA is way behind other markets that are smaller.

Maybe good things will come to those who wait. LOL yeah right!

I went ahead and bought a HD D* receiver. It will be installed on Wednesday. Guess I will have to wait and see how my reception is.

When i was at Best Buy the other day, the "Zone Manager" said with a really good bi-directional antenna, we should be able to pick up the HD broadcasts out of Fayetteville.

Has anyone heard anything about this?

Fayetteville comes in very good here, about 25 miles south of Branson.

Channels 15 (ABC) and 18 (CBS).

Interesting....

might need to see what i can pick up from down there

well I cant get any Fayetteville Channels... :eek:

For what its worth, I live 63 miles from Fayetteville and 62 miles from Springfield as the crow flies.

KY 3 comes in with a signal in the low 90's, while I can't get any signal at all from KOZK for some reason.

PBS from Fayetteville comes in with a signal in the 80's, while CBS and ABC have signals around 70.

Harrison is in the Springfield DMA by the way.....

Is your antenna in attic or outside?

Mine is currently in the attic and i receive signals in the 50s. I can pick up all the springfield channels in digitial, but they can break up. The 2 HD channels (KOZK - PBS and KYTV - NBC) both come in good.

My antenna is outside on a 20 foot mast, with a signal booster.

I am about 1400 feet elevation, probably quite a bit higher than the Springfield area I would guess.......

I just read here http://www.tvtechnology.com/dailynews/one.php?id=2190, that the FCC is forcing all ABC, CBS, and FOX stations in the top 100 markets to broadcast at full digital strength by June 2005.

Is Springfield a top 100 market?

Also, I haven't been able to get my HDTV tuner working yet (having to order a different brand), but from reading the posts ky3 (always watch their newscast) and the pbs station are the only ones doing HDTV right now, right?

Yes Ky3 and PBS are up and running.. PBS-HD only after 5pm... BTY springfield is 78 in the DMA rainking

Thanks Blaine!

Since Springfield/Branson is in the top 100 markets, CBS KOLR10 will have to start broadcasting full-strength digital by next summer!

I can't wait to see the Chiefs in HDTV next season, if not this one.

I wonder if KY3 is hurting the other stations financially. They seem to have most of the market share locally (at least newswise), but that doesn't leave as much advertising revenue for the other local stations. No wonder they couldn't afford to upgrade.

I have called KOLR and its parent company numerous times about going fullpower... They keep saying there is not the market share to drive it... I told them if they were full power it would produce market share... Also I told them there was no question about who was first in the springfield market to go HD.... Unlike both stations saying they were first to broadcast in the ozarks...

I can't wait for Fox, CBS and ABC to pony up and go HD too! Hope they pass on more HD content than KY3. How do you guys like the Olympics in HD on KY3? What a crock that is! A guy on the phone at KY3 said it was NBC's fault. I've got a email into the station manager to find out the details. Going to get the HD package from Mediacom on Monday so I can get ESPN HD. Will report back with the results.

Dan

Yes please do.. I have been wondering how the HD is on mediacom.. I get my HD over DISH... ESPN HD is OK not all the programming is HD :mad:

I'm from Battlefield, MO. I can pick up KY3-HD, KSPR DTV and the UPN channels. Among all of these only ky3 and uph-hd pass through HD content.

Originally posted by Aldrin
I'm from Battlefield, MO. I can pick up KY3-HD, KSPR DTV and the UPN channels. Among all of these only ky3 and uph-hd pass through HD content.

The only true HD content is from KY3 and PBS. KSPR and UPN are SD 480i. KY3 has the tonight show, law&order and ER in HD. PBS 21-2 is HD after 6pm. Sure wish KY3 had the Olympics in HD!

Dan

Originally posted by diverdown
The only true HD content is from KY3 and PBS. KSPR and UPN are SD 480i. KY3 has the tonight show, law&order and ER in HD. PBS 21-2 is HD after 6pm. Sure wish KY3 had the Olympics in HD!

Dan

WHAT??!! The Olympics aren't HD? Why the hell not? I just bought a STB so I could watch in HD. Is KY3 begging for hate mail?

I think the network is only providing HD Olympic content to O&O stations... Ky3 is not one :o

Originally posted by Blaine Doss
I think the network is only providing HD Olympic content to O&O stations... Ky3 is not one :o

O&O stations? Is that english? :D

Well kinda :D Owned and Operated by NBC...

Originally posted by tch
WHAT??!! The Olympics aren't HD? Why the hell not? I just bought a STB so I could watch in HD. Is KY3 begging for hate mail?

I feel your pain man! I bought a stb a couple of months ago to watch the Olympics in HD. I guess thats what I get for assuming KY3 would pass it on. What a farce!!
Dan

Needless to say I'm bitterly disappointed. I bought a STB last year and returned it because of lack of programming. Looks like there still isn't much. Piss poor progress in a year... At least I got a good deal on the box. I think I'll keep this one.

Well, I got a reply from KY3 on the reason they are not broadcasting the Olympics in HD for anyone interested.

Having been the first station in the Springfield market to offer high definition network programming, we were very excited when we found out NBC was going to broadcast the Olympics in HD. We were less than thrilled when we found out that it was a delayed optional feed instead of a simulcast of the analog signal. Also, this feed is limited to only six sports and not necessarily the most relevant event at any particular time. This created a dilemma for our station as our digital feed is used by several cable systems as their primary feed to provide a quality signal to their subscribers.
This was not an easy decision; but with these two combined factors, the decision not to air the HD feed became acceptable.
We sincerely regret the inconvenience to our digital viewers.


I'm not happy but it clearly isn't going to change. At least they are willing to explain their position to the viewers. I suppose it could be worse. They could stick their heads in the sand and refuse to go full power like some others that I need not mention. :rolleyes:

I am really glad to see this thread. I thought I was the only one in Springfield that is going insane trying to talk to the people at KOLR/KDEB/Nextar/Mission Broadcasting. For a company that flat out tells you that they are going to do the least amount they have to for their customers, should go out of business or sell to someone who cares.

Who do you call when a company responds to you like this? I am willing to call/write to anybody that will listen about our situation here in Springfield. Let's band together and fight KOLR/KDEB on this.

On the other hand, you got a great local broadcaster like KYTV that is willing and able, but the Network is behind in the HDTV market.

Good news is that it sounds like Locals are coming to D* by end of September. I can finally get rid of Mediacom.

I have DirecTV HD (sammy receiver) and was also a b it disappointed with the content locally. I do enjoy the PBS feed and some of the KY3 feed when there is something good on.

As far as KOLR, they are bafoons. I spoke with David Smith (think that is his name) an engineer with them about my denial for a wavier I asked for. I told him I was not interested in local content but just the HD feed over satellite. He said he understood but could not help since their owners (NexStar Broadcasting and Mission Broadcasting) have no desire to put money into the system. I think he felt my pain becuase it sounded like he was stuck (and probably wished he worked for KY3 or PBS).

I called NexStar (www.nexstar.tv) and they passed me onto some other office in PA. I havent called there yet.

Maybe if we get enough people to call we can get on their radar screen.

Also, a question.....IF all top 100 markets have to go to full digitial, that doesnt necessarily mean HD, right?

Originally posted by Blaine Doss
Yes please do.. I have been wondering how the HD is on mediacom.. I get my HD over DISH... ESPN HD is OK not all the programming is HD :mad:

Got my digital cable box from mediacom tonight. I really feel like I got my moneys worth out of this deal. The unit is a Motorola DCT6208 and contains a fully functional DVR. Live, replay, pause, record the whole bit! I believe it has an 80 gig hard drive. The HD channels (5ea.) look awesome! Channels 2- 73 look about the same as direct feed. I didn't get the digital package, just the HD package. 20 or so music channels and tv guide included. The unit also has optical and coaxial Dolby digital out 5.1. I only found 1 HD channel at this time that had 5.1 audio content. Sounds excellent and has a nice remote! My kids are going ga ga with the replay thing. All in all it is a great deal in my book. Not sure if I can tell the price here but you can call and find out. Worth the extra$$

Wonderful on the KY3 news...par for the course. I just won't expect anything from the locals on HD anymore. Springfield has always been on the bleeding edge of technology. Thats ok, I'll take it over the bigger cities anyday.

Dan

Originally posted by diverdown
Got my digital cable box from mediacom tonight.
Wonderful on the KY3 news...par for the course. I just won't expect anything from the locals on HD anymore.
Dan

So KY3 news is HD over mediacom cable? It sure isn't broadcast in HD!! I wonder what their excuse for that is?? :mad:
In fact, as far as I can tell, KY3 isn't currently broadcasting ANYTHING in HD!

Originally posted by tch
So KY3 news is HD over mediacom cable? It sure isn't broadcast in HD!! I wonder what their excuse for that is?? :mad:
In fact, as far as I can tell, KY3 isn't currently broadcasting ANYTHING in HD!

Sorry, I was being facetious concerning the NBC/KY3 Olympics flop. No HD locals with mediacom. I have a stb box that gets KY3 and PBS HD OTA.

Forgot to mention that the mediacom motorola hd cable/dvr box has a DVI out along with the component out.
Dan

Please post some email addresses so I can start emailing these stations that are laggards. KOLR - KSPR
I just got a big screen and HDTivo and am reading in horror that I can't get the Chiefs games and MNF in HD this fall


Aaaargh!!!!

Would a waiver from KOLR do the job so that we could at least get CBS HD from Dish or Direct?

budman

KOLR/FOX 27 will NOT give you a waiver. I have tried to get it only for HD content with my DirecTV. If you read a some threads up, I posted the website to the parent company that owns the 2 stations.

It is so sad that KOLR and FOX27 has no desire to offer HD service. It just plain sucks.

At least with my DirecTV receiver I can get KSMU and KY3 in HD over the air. My brother who just got the MediaCom with HD cant get those since there isnt a contract signed yet to provide local HD.

Originally posted by gwb2


Good news is that it sounds like Locals are coming to D* by end of September. I can finally get rid of Mediacom.

Hey gwb2, is this really the case? I called D* and they said that "sometime this year" would be when locals are on the satellite.

If thats the case I may just skip worrying about antennas and the OTA broadcasts and wait another month for the locals here.

I got this crap from their GM this AM......corporate drivel!

My company spends over 150k annually on their station, and I am try to get a waiver for that company also. The owner, me, and 5 top managers have 17 plasmas and other HD sets between us.

I wonder what would happen if I waived the withholding ad revenue tact might work?




We understand your concerns. It will be years before the majority of our viewers are able to receive digital, let alone HD programming. However those who already have the technology want to see the digital transition happen quickly. Unfortunately technological changes of that magnitude take longer. During that process, it is our policy and that of most stations not to grant satellite waivers for purposes of high definition. The transition to digital is a fluid process and there are no specific timelines at this date as to when all stations will be full-power digital, or high definition. However the following statement sums up our company's policy regarding the issue at this time. Again, thank you for your comments.



Pursuant to FCC requirements, our parent company is transmitting a standard definition digital signal in our metro area. Stations may broadcast both analog and digital signals until at least December 31, 2006, when they may be required to abandon the analog format, provided that 85% of households within our viewing area have the capability to receive a digital signal.

Digital transmissions currently may be low-power, but full-power transmission will be required by a future date to be established by the FCC. The FCC left the decision of which digital format to be transmitted up to individual broadcasters. Our company has made the decision to broadcast standard definition digital signals until such time as the FCC mandates high definition broadcasts, or the viewer base supports the additional costs associated with transmitting a high definition signal.

aharris, it sounds like they're saying, "na na nana na you can't make me," or . . . "blah blah, blah blah blah" to us all.

that stinks!

You guys should pull your advertising from them and encourage others in the same boat to do the same.

Of course then the would say that they dont have the money to offer HD becuase they dont have advertising, etc, etc, etc.

One would think that they would at least allow the HD content wavier since there are "so few of us" that have HD capability.

The only thing that comes to mind is: THOSE BASTARDS

I am thinking about sending them a link to this thread :D

Now that would be a good idea.

See if they have the onions to respond or partake in conversation.

I live in Fort Wayne , Indiana and yearly do antenna installations for the Springfield , Mo. stations, I have installations in Garfield Arkansas and Bentonville area. I use only the largest Winegard U/V antenna and their highest gain pre-amp . The analog signal is clear and Tulsa Vhf is marginal when rotated to the west. I was driving down in two weeks to install a STB on a current customer. I think because of the replies I just read here i will scrap this idea. Thanks for all your great information. This forum is awesome.

Titan TV and Antennaweb.org both think there is an operating ABC HD station in Springfield MO : KSPR-DT channel 19-1. I have never seen it. I cannot pick it up although I get all others, such as they are, with no problem. Does this even exist?

I just emailed the Chief Engineer at KSPR this past week. Apparently they now have a digital signal, but at low power. He said don't expect High Definition anytime soon from them either. I emailed about waivers, but have not heard back from him yet on whether they grant them or not.

Kevinlane, just read your question about D* carrying Springfield's locals. Go look at the threads over at DBSTALK.COM. Over there, they are listing as a rumor that we will get locals around 9/28. It started by saying that we were going to need a second dish to receive them. Now the talk is that D* is coming out with a new dish that will recieve from five satellites, so we might only need one dish.

This is all rumor on the other forums. I called D* and they said the same thing as you. Sometime between now and the end of the year.

Who knows.... I'm so fed up with trying to get decent looking locals on my TV, that I am in hopes that these rumors are true.

Originally posted by gwb2
I just emailed the Chief Engineer at KSPR this past week. Apparently they now have a digital signal, but at low power. He said don't expect High Definition anytime soon from them either. I emailed about waivers, but have not heard back from him yet on whether they grant them or not.

Hey GWB2, thanks for the reply.

Guess what I just came from Heather electronics on Republic rd in between Fremont and National, one of the guys there told me he thought that KSPR hasn't yet moved their transmissions out to the Fordland towers.
He said it was from somewhere downtown. So I climbed up into the attic and aimed for downtown. I got it!!! KSPR-dt 19-1 I'm watching it right now. I've tuned it in on my HD10-250 DirecTv tivo unit.

However this takes away from a simple install like I had hoped for. I was able to get KOLR 10-1 and KDEB 27-1(the second tier of receivable channels) but that was aiming for Forland. So now it appears that in order to get ALL the available digital stations in our area that we'll(us guys that live in Nixa, that's me) need a rotor.

LMK if you can get that waiver as I was able to get 10-1 3-1 3-2 21-1 21-2 21-3 21-4 & 27-1 aming for Fordland, ABC is at this point, to my knowledge, the maverick as far as where to aim for. A waiver from ABC, combined with aiming for Fordland, could be our best hope for now.

Thx
KLB

PS I'll check out that thread you've turned me onto.

Hey again GWB2, would you post the email address of the engineer at KSPR. I'll email him too, and just maybe, the more requests the better!

Wait a minute.....

KSPR should only be broadcasting in digitial not HD. Is it receiving in HD?

All I get on for now on local HD broadcast is KY3 and KOZK (1080i for both). The rest are broadcasting digitial only (480p)

Also, for those of us who have DirecTV, go to channel 74 and you will see that Bravo HD is up and running.

My twin brother just got the mediacom hd deal and his hd content looks good, but his "digitial cable" looks like ass. In fact he was thinking about dropping it since 1) their channel selection is bad, and 2) their digitial channels looked crappy. My directv normal channels look much better

Originally posted by THX10
Wait a minute.....

KSPR should only be broadcasting in digitial not HD. Is it receiving in HD?

You just beat me to the question.

Anyone see "Father of the Pride"? First thing I have seen in HD from KY3. Looked great. :D PBS doesn't always look all that great. I think all those sub channels (4) detract from the signal. I don't think its possible to have all those digital channels AND run HD so I wonder if we are really seeing 1080i from PBS.

On another subject, anyone know of a decent channel guide? I never know what is on PBS HD (21-2) because Titan tv only shows a duplicate of the analog station. I complained to them but got a canned response.

Sorry all, I didn't specify.
KSPR IS NOT broadcasting in HD , however, I am able to get it in SD using my "digital only" tuner in the HD10-250

LOL

I was starting to get a bit excited about that.

tch, as far as KOZK I agree, some of the programs are not as crisp as others they put on. I attribute that to the origional recording of that particular show. When I spoke with the engineer he said they switch power (for lack of a better term) from PBS Kids and put it into HD feed at night.

I have a feeling that KOLR 10's new set will have several plasmas/lcd's to show off how modern they have become.

If there are, ole David (GM) @ Kolr will be getting more email from me about the "lack" of HD displays in Springpatch!

Fire 'em up!

At least up there you have a chance at picking up their weak signals. We are in the Springfield DMA down here in Arkansas. The only digital I get is KY-3.....

The rest are just blips on the signal meter.

At least I am able to get Fayetteville ABC and CBS in HD.....

I will be glad to get Springfield locals on D*.......

Originally posted by Arkie
At least up there you have a chance at picking up their weak signals. We are in the Springfield DMA down here in Arkansas. The only digital I get is KY-3.....

The rest are just blips on the signal meter.

At least I am able to get Fayetteville ABC and CBS in HD.....

I will be glad to get Springfield locals on D*.......

Well then, if you get ABC and CBS in HD consider yourself lucky because you are better off than most of us. I'm in Ozark and cannot get anything broadcasting HD except KY3 and PBS. Sure, I see digital stations from CBS and FOX but they are NOT broadcasting in HD. I don't even see digital from ABC and that network has LOTS of HD content. I can't tell you how much it pisses me off that they continue to drag their feet.
The funny thing is that I watch all the commercials on KY3 because I watch HD shows real time. I PVR the other network's shows and zip through the commercials. I hope their sponsors know that. ;)

You are right, I do have an advantage of being able to pull CBS and ABC and PBS from another DMA.

Funny thing is, I can't even get a blip from KOZK at all. I thought they were available down here.

The problem I am having is with Sunday Ticket. Any game that is carried by Fox 27 or KOLR 10 is blacked out for me, even the HD feeds.....

What a crock......

I live in SW Springfield and have DirecTV HD and an OTA in my attic.

I seem to pick up 21-2 and 3-1 pretty good but the signals are average. Bouncing between 45-65. I checked the alignment/pointing and it is correct. I know that it is not good to have it inside my attic but that is where it is and will stay. I am thinking about getting a new OTA so I can pick up the other (******) digitial signals from our other (******) local stations.

Any suggestions?

Oh yeah dont get me started on the f*&^ing blackouts on HD Sunday Ticket for the Chiefs or Rams games. You out THINK that they would allow the HD content thru to us. Wait, I will stop before I get too worked up.

I also have an antena in my attic. I get 3,21,27 And sometimes if I hold my mouth right 10.. I am useing a Yagi from RS.. YMMV I am on a hill also

I seem to pick up 21-2 and 3-1 pretty good but the signals are average. Bouncing between 45-65. I checked the alignment/pointing and it is correct. I know that it is not good to have it inside my attic but that is where it is and will stay. I am thinking about getting a new OTA so I can pick up the other (******) digitial signals from our other (******) local stations.
Just for reference... I am in Ozark and have my antenna in the attic. Channel 3-1 and 21-1 come blasting in at a signal strength of 95. All others out of Fordland are 70 or better. No ABC HD or digital at all. Antenna is a cheap (bottom or nearly bottom of the line) Radio Shack directional purchased 8 years ago.

One reason you wont get ABC in HD is because they are not broadcasting in HD.

They are only doing a low watt digitial

My situation just to add to everyone elses observations:

I'm in Nixa, and just like in Ozark, 3-1 and 21-* are getting 90-95 sig strength.
10-1 & 28-1(KDEB) are about 65.

To get ABC (19-1) in digital, I have to reaim for downtown, and I get about 65 or so.

My antennae is in the attic also. I have an RCA VHF/UHF/FM directional

Again, Aim for Forland to get everything BUT ABC
(BTW I can still get 3-1 and 21-* while aimed at downtown, but much weaker and iffy)

So I have to trade off:
aiming for ABC will lose stability on 3 and 21 and lose 10 and 27 altogether.

Hope it helps

I see where Springfield locals are to be added to DirecTV October 26.

But by adding local channels, will that allow us to receive the national HD feeds?

I dont care about locals on DirecTV as long as I can get CBS in HD just for football alone.

IF they offer locals, WILL they allow the HD feed to be received and not blacked out?

Also, any new news on FOX or ABC going to HD?

and with my weaker signal strength, methinks I might need a new antenna. Are you guys running a uni-directional or omni-directional OTA?

I live about 12 miles south of the state line, near Harrison. I am in a "white area", for all but NBC. I am able to get Distant Networks from NY and LA, including the HD broadcast of CBS. I should also be able to get FOX HD when it is added Tuesday. I am not able to get NBC due to KY 3 not giving me a waiver. I am in the grade B range of KYTV only......

I hope when the Springfield locals are added, my distants are not taken away.

Originally posted by Arkie
... I hope when the Springfield locals are added, my distants are not taken away. Arkie, If you want all the distant nets, just "move" your service address to a real address in Mena AR. They are in the LR DMA, but are also DNS-eligible, due to distance from LR. Mena residents can get LR locals and DNS, either one or both.

FWIW, you'll need a 2nd dish for Springfield locals because D* is putting them on the 72.5° satellite.

BTW, how is your KTHV-DT (CBS in LR) reception, now that they're broadcasting at fully allotted power?

Originally posted by arxaw
Arkie, If you want all the distant nets, just "move" your service address to a real address in Mena AR. They are in the LR DMA, but are also DNS-eligible, due to distance from LR. Mena residents can get LR locals and DNS, either one or both.

FWIW, you'll need a 2nd dish for Springfield locals because D* is putting them on the 72.5° satellite.

BTW, how is your KTHV-DT (CBS in LR) reception, now that they're broadcasting at fully allotted power?


My reception of KTHV is sporadic at best. I can occasionally get a lock on their signal, but not enough to count on.

It would be nice to get all of the Razorback games on the Little Rock locals, but I am able to pick up Fayetteville/Ft. Smith for that. I think I will just add the Springfield locals when they are available. I believe the Springfield UPN channel carries Jefferson Pilot SEC games. I don't feel comfortable with "moving" from an ethics standpoint.

Our weather up here is more like our Ozark Mountain brethren in Southern Missouri. I would probably benefit more from watching their local news/weather/sports.

Thanks for the info at any rate.......

Hey by any chance did others get the Chiefs game @ Jacksonville in HD on their D* Sunday Ticket?

I did and was suprised/pleased (even though we lost) as that's what I thought I was buying it for.

It's a good thing too, as I could hardly get OTA signal(I guess all that wind on Sunday)

Man, KOLR, KSPR, and KDEB suck! I'd like to know how our Public Station can pull off broadcasting in HD and these commercial broadcasters can't. It must be, as someone else stated, that they are in financial trouble. Why else could a public station do it and not a commercial broadcaster? I'd be embarrased to death.

KDEB, I WANT TO WATCH THE WORLD SERIES IN HD!!!

Glad to finally find some Springfield people with home theater interests!!! :D :D

Let's keep the pressure on these numbnuts!

AirData

I have been trying to get a HD waiver from KOLR or KDEB.

Here is the response I got from KDEB. I dont even know how to respond to this.......


We only grant waivers, HDTV or analog, for distant networks if you live outside our DMA Counties. This is our policy at this time & we will wait for further FCC guidelines in the future. Sorry for any inconvenience.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Gordon [mailto:mgordon@kolr10.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 9:49 AM
To: David Smith
Subject: FW: HD waiver question...



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris and Isabel Coulter [mailto:ccoulter17@mchsi.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 12:31 PM
To: mgordon@kolr10.com
Subject: HD waiver question...


Mr. Gordon,

A couple of months ago I had asked for a waiver from your company to receive the High Definition feed since you are not providing that yet (even though we are a Top 80 market). After viewing the HD feeds from NFL Sunday Ticket, it is disheartening to watch your feed in SD and to have the football HD feeds blacked out by your station.

What is the process I need to proceed to receive the HD feeds from FOX?

I was told to contact someone in PA who works for Nexstar Broadcasting, but that didn't make sense since it is a local waiver I am asking for.

If you cannot provide that waiver, can you please let me know who I might be able to contact.

Thank you for your time.



Like I said, and everyone else, they are just pathetic. Even though this email is to KOLR, only this guy (from the KDEB site) replied. I have not heard from the general manager at KOLR 10. Also, notice the time it took for this loser to respond.

Everyone, start spamming them. LOL

Nexstar (web site (http://nexstar.tv/)) is awful.

They own several stations in your area, and they also own the NBC affiliate down here in Little Rock. They have very few plans for HD and/or full power digital TV stations. Since they took over the Little Rock NBC affiliate, about all they seem to be interested in is showing infomercials and other "paid programming" crap.

I gave up on waivers and "moved" my D* service address to a white area that doesn't require any waivers, so I could get the networks in HD out of NY & LA.

hey arxaw, where's a "nice" place to live?

arxaw,

how did you "move" your address?

Originally posted by Kevinlane
... where's a "nice" place to live? There are white areas in lots of places in Arkansas and Missouri.
Any address in Mena, AR will get you all the NY/LA HD channels (plus Little Rock locals in SD, if you want them, and can get decent signal strength on 119, transponder 25, which is a spot beam for the Little Rock market). If you don't want LR locals, just order DNS.

If you don't feel comfortable "moving" your address to another state, there are addresses in Theodosia, MO that are eligible everything but NBC. Thayer, MO also has some addresses that are eligible for all NY & LA networks.

Look here (http://kevdb.infospace.com/_1_2KZIUYE02HH2VES__info.netctr/kevdb?KCFG=US&otmpl=%2Fres%2Fr1.html&KSN=res-us&KS=_6_1_0_0_3ea0Z_1_3x_5_1KZ71c_39bYiW&MinKS=_0_O_6DK_0_0&MaxKS=_3L_P_6DM_8T6u_0&CurKS=_1Y_O_6DK_2Lq_3DTKF&QI=5&QN=&QF=&QC=Thayer&QS=mo&QP=&QST=&QHN=&QTAPPEND=&QFM=A&QK=5&QO=us&QD=&DM=619&email=) for Thayer addresses, or scroll to the bottom of that page and change the town name, to search for addresses in other towns. Towns or addresses near streams or rivers are usually lower in altitude and are more likely to qualify for DNS.

When you get a list of addresses to check, add an apartment number to an address (in case the address already has DirecTV service) and check it for DNS eligibility HERE (http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com). If eligible, the results will look like the attached screen grab.

Once you have an eligible "apartment" address, just call DirecTV.
Tell them you've moved and you did a self-install.
Tell them your mailing address stays at your "old" address.
Tell them your phone number will not change.
Ask them to add the NY and/or LA networks of your choice. The SD nets include the HD feed (if available), at no extra charge. No HD package required - just an HD receiver system. NY or LA nets are alacarte - $1.50 per network. Get both NY & LA feeds of one network for $2.25.

If the CSR doesn't know how to add DNS, have them transfer you to a supervisor or an "HD Specialist" CSR.

When you "move", all future mailouts, including bills and replacement access cards will be sent to your mailing address. ANY REPAIRS OR INSTALLS MUST be done by you, or with a friendly local satellite company. Calling DirecTV to schedule repairs or wiring work would result in a repair tech visit to your "move" address.

EDIT: Another MO town with lots of DNS eligible addresses is Salem, MO (map (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&countryid=US&addtohistory=&searchtype=address&cat=&address=201%20E%203rd%20St&city=Salem&state=MO&zipcode=65560%2d1413&search=Get%20Map)). Particularly the 200 blocks of East Center, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th Streets. They're all near a stream or river (low lying areas).

sent an email to Kdeb 27... here is there reply..

Thanks for your interest in HDTV. Here is our corporate policy concerning digital television:

Pursuant to FCC requirements, Nexstar Broadcasting is transmitting a standard definition digital broadcast signal for station KDEB-TV.
Stations may broadcast both analog and digital signals until at least December 31, 2006, when they may be required to abandon the analog format, provided that 85% of households within the Springfield, MO DMA have the capability to receive a digital signal.

Digital transmissions currently may be low-power, but full-power transmission will be required by a future date to be established by the FCC. The FCC left the decision of which digital format to be transmitted up to individual broadcasters. Nexstar Broadcasting has made a decision to broadcast standard definition digital signals until such time as the FCC mandates high definition broadcasts or the viewer base supports the additional costs associated with transmitting a high definition signal.

Originally posted by Blaine Doss
sent an email to Kdeb 27... here is there reply..

Thanks for your interest in HDTV. Here is our corporate policy concerning digital television:

Nexstar Broadcasting has made a decision to broadcast standard definition digital signals until such time as the FCC mandates high definition broadcasts or the viewer base supports the additional costs associated with transmitting a high definition signal.

I doubt the FCC will ever mandate HD broadcasts. It appears we're just absolutely screwed. I think I'll move... No, I'm not kidding.

Very interesting information.

So i guess by being in an area that has no signal, a waiver doesnt even need to be applied for? and they can flip the switch themselves?

How long does it take for them to turn on the locals once you have "moved" and are eligible?

THX10, I live near Harrison in an area that qualifies for the Distants for all but NBC.

I get CBS HD and the Fox HD world series games on DirecTV.

I only had to apply for a waiver from KY3 who flatly turned it down, and refused to budge.

A waiver was not required for the other 3 networks.....

The other 3 were turned on instantly when I ordered them.......

Originally posted by THX10
... So i guess by being in an area that has no signal, a waiver doesnt even need to be applied for? and they can flip the switch themselves?DirecTV activates the locals or distand net service (DNS) as soon as you "move" to an address that is in the DNS-eligible database, and after you request they be activated.

How long does it take for them to turn on the locals once you have "moved" and are eligible?As soon as you ask the CSR to activate them. They should ask you to tune to specific channel numbers for verification, before ending the call. If not, ask them to hold on while you check the channels.

DNS standard def channels are in the 380s.
DNS HD equivalent of the CBS, NBC (and soon FOX) are in the 80s.
ABC-HD is not yet available, but should be sometime in '05.

Example:
CBS standard def from NY is on ch 380
CBS standard def from LA is on ch 381
CBS High Definiton from NY is on ch 80
CBS High Definition from LA is on ch 81

The DNS HD channels do not require a subscription to the HD programming package. You only need an HD receiver and a qualifying white area or O&O service address.

Originally posted by tch
I doubt the FCC will ever mandate HD broadcasts...You are correct. The FCC only mandated digital broadcasting.
Don't look for HD from Nexstar. Here's what they, and many other big station owners plan to do with digital TV bandwidth:
From Broadcasting & Cable (full article HERE (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA412626)):

... After three days of pitching his bold wireless-cable plan at the NAB show, the Emmis CEO can claim success. "It's been very gratifying," he says. "I haven't found one broadcaster who isn't interested."

Forget interested.

Think committed.

Twelve TV-station groups publicly endorsed his plan for turning digital TV stations into wireless cable systems, offering a low-cost alternative to cable and satellite (see B&C, 4/19). The power players in Smulyan's new frontier came from five Top 25 TV-station groups: Scripps (No. 15), Clear Channel (No. 16), Raycom (No. 17), Meredith (No. 18), and Media General (No. 20). (Emmis Communications is No. 23 on B&C's annual ranking.) Also backing Smulyan were six smaller groups: Barrington Broadcasting, Citadel Communications, Fisher Broadcasting, Granite Broadcasting, Nexstar Broadcasting, Prime Cities Broadcasting, and Sunbelt Communications.

"Jeff provided us with the traction we have been looking for," says Clear Channel Television President Bill Moll. "He brings credibility, a group of stations, and the leadership needed to unify the industry."

Nexstar will probably offer HD, but probably only in MPEG4 or WM9 via their pay "wireless cable" service similar to what USDTV (http://www.usdtv.com/) is already offering in some cities.

Has anyone gotten locals installed on D* yet? If so, how is the picture quality?

Not yet.

I was thinking about it, but if they wont give me the HD CBS feed, it means nothing to me.

I might be "moving" soon anyway so I can get that signal.

I ordered them on 10/26, but couldn't get an installation until 11/13.

I should continue to get distants and springfield locals since I am in an area that qualifies for distants.

Just a curious question about getting the locals from DirecTv.....

IF i were to get the locals WOULD they give me the HD feed even though the local CBS, FOX, and ABC do not broadcast locally in HD?

Originally posted by THX10
... IF i were to get the locals WOULD they give me the HD feed even though the local CBS, FOX, and ABC do not broadcast locally in HD? No.

You have to "live" in an area that qualifies for the HD feeds from NY &/or LA.
Qualifying areas are O&O markets or a white area that can't get any TV OTA.

sigh

Why "sigh" when you can "move"?

True, but I guess I am depressed becuase how screwed up the regulations are about blackouts and market areas as well as how pathetic our local Fox, CBS, and ABC stations are here since they are not even thinking about going HD.

Here is my question.

I currently have Mediacom with their new Motorola HD box with DVR. I have the HD package with them but want to receive the local channels that are being broadcast OTA in HD. Can I just get an OTA antenna and hook it up to my Mediacom box since it has the decoder in it or do I have to buy a separate HD decoder and hook the antenna up to it? I have an HDTV but it does not have a built in decoder. The end result I am looking for is to get the Super Bowl in HD. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

That would be a 'NO'. The decoder you have from Mediacom does not decode OTA siganls so if you want to get KY3 and PBS in HD, you will need to get a seperate OTA HD Receiver. That is why I am with DirecTv

And even if you do that, you still wont get the SuperBowl in HD because only KY3 and PBS broadcast in HD. KOLR10, KSPR33, and FOX27 have no intent on broadcasting in HD until they are required to by law. So start spamming their offices with requests.

Also, for more info on your cable box: http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/dct6200/default.asp

Sorry for the bad news.

So does this mean there is going to be absolutely no way for me to view the Super Bowl in HD this year from my TV??? Do I have any options for this? Is there a different company I can go with that will offer it?? Anything would be appreciated.

Option 1: Move out of the Springfield DMA.

Option 2: Go see the Superbowl at a bar outside the Springfield DMA.

Option 3: Buy KOLR10 and Fox27 and invest additional funds into their broadcast system.

I don't mean to be a smartass about it, but I think you can sense my (and others) frustation about the whole HD crap in the Springfield DMA. It is sad that only the local stations (KY3 and PBS) offer HD and the others do not, which are owned by much larger and profitable companies.

Like I said, earlier, just start sending requests to KDEB and KOLR.

Also, if you have not yet, you might want to read this enitre string.

Well damn...I would never buy KDEB or KOLR they will both go under within a few years! Thanks though and yes I did read the entire string. Does everyone honestly think that 85% of the population will have HDTV's by 2007? I really don't think that they will. FCC needs to mandate they do it by a certain timeframe reguardless of weather 85% pick it up or not!

I don't see everyone having to go to HDTV just because it's mandated by the FCC. I don't like to see anyone forced to do anything.

What we need is an incentive for the other stations to start offering HDTV. I think the carrot that would lead them along would be opening up the Springfield market to HDTV without out having to spoof your address. Let the satellite companies feed you the CBS network feed with HDTV if KOLR won't, no matter if you're remote or not. Do you think KOLR wants to lose the viewers (read advertisers) who have the kind of income to go hog-wild on an HDTV home theater system???

Guys I see you are having a big problem getting HDTV. Write your congressmen! There is a bill in congress being introduced to let the direct tv , Dish network and Zoom offer HD to anybody who can not receive HDTV signals being pushed hard by dish netwrok (not just digital reception). If your stations don't transmitt HD then you'll be able to get network feeds of HD from distant stations legally.

As for the 85% by 2007 it looks like they should make that deadline fairly easy. They're approach 80% now and the lower cost of HD sets is starting to take off. It's the TV sets which where too high slowing the whole situtation. They have the transmitters in place (in most cases) and July 1 2005 all the big 4 networks in the top 200 markets must be at full digital power.

Here in Morristown TN. I'm very lucky I guess. I'm 70 miles from th tri cities and get their signals very well OTA. All major networks passing HD and all but one DD5.1 and they do a great job and are eager to do more HD.

I also get Knoxvilles HD (42 miles) from all networks including WB HD though they have very little HD programming at present. They also have a digital only channel 7 which as HD cameras and most of their local commercials are HD.
The station just started about 3 months ago and transmit everything in HD or upconverted to HD. I almost forgot 7.2 is a digital SD feed for Comcast and Charter cable. Needless to say I blocked 7.2 out. They run a lot of movies this way and they show up very well in my Home Thaetre room where I project 107 inch 16x9 pix.
If you haven't seen a game in HD on 107" screen with DD 5.1 WOW! it's better then being there.

As for PBS HD I get 4
Norton Va. Blue Ridge PBS does run different programing then the other PBS. They're about 75 miles from me and my signal is in the 80's.
WUNF Ashville UNC PBS about 65 miles but over the smokey mountains and not a reliable signal.
WKOP Knoxville
WETP Sneadville, Knoxville and Sneadville are exact same programing. Sneadville is 10 miles away and cause overload problems when I point the antenna in their direction.

I guess your problem is unigue for I haven't heard of other stations not wanting to pass HD. All the engineers around here are really exctited about it. All but 2 are running at reduced power till July. Then I should get a few more from (ABC) NC and (CBS) SC. I just want the ACC games from them all Knoxville runs is SEC of course.

I guess you stores have a rough time selling HD sets. Good luck on your quest. Keep complaining to the stations they respond quickly around here. Soon they may get the message.

For those of you that wanted to know about local channels through Directv, got mine installed yesterday and I am very pleased! Although it took two months and a missed installation on Directv's fault, the installer came out and installed my new "Locals" dish, replaced my big dish, installed a new multiswitch, and all new receivers. The picture quality is outstanding compared to my previous Mediacom's picture. Now I'm down to one thing on my wish list, ALL LOCAL CHANNELS PROVIDING HDTV!

Do you live in SWMO?

Also, do you have HD DirecTV?

I had locals installed 2 weeks ago. DirectTV added a smaller dish to my oval 3lnb with a multiswitch. They also replaced two receivers one was a HD, I have the HD package and the local package, of course the locals are SD.

Yes, I live in Springfield, MO. Yes, I do have HD DirecTV. I have had it for three years now. They replaced my aging Sony SAT-HD100 with the RCA RTC-210 for free! I'm not a fan of RCA, but the unit seems to be working really good. The installer said that they wait to get locals in this area is now out to the middle of March! If you get an appointment, ask for the 8-12pm window. My first install appointment was a 1pm - 5pm and he didn't make it. The second install was a 8am to 12pm appointment and he didn't make it out until 3pm and didn't leave until 9pm! He said every day he has to cancel his afternoon appointments because his company always overbooks the installers.

I am still amazed at the picture quality of the locals. I must of had a really bad cable hook up from Mediacom.

Originally posted by gwb2
Yes, I live in Springfield, MO...
I am still amazed at the picture quality of the locals... WOW, Mediacom must *really* be bad...

Anyone getting a better signal from KOLR-DT? MY signal went from 45% to now around 65-70?

Once you have an eligible "apartment" address, just call DirecTV.
Tell them you've moved and you did a self-install.
Tell them your mailing address stays at your "old" address.
Tell them your phone number will not change.
Ask them to add the NY and/or LA networks of your choice. The SD nets include the HD feed (if available), at no extra charge. No HD package required - just an HD receiver system. NY or LA nets are alacarte - $1.50 per network. Get both NY & LA feeds of one network for $2.25.

If the CSR doesn't know how to add DNS, have them transfer you to a supervisor or an "HD Specialist" CSR.

When you "move", all future mailouts, including bills and replacement access cards will be sent to your mailing address. ANY REPAIRS OR INSTALLS MUST be done by you, or with a friendly local satellite company. Calling DirecTV to schedule repairs or wiring work would result in a repair tech visit to your "move" address.



I live in Joplin and would consider "moving" but a question that I have is when my equipment makes its service calls at night (I have Tivo and sunday ticket) in the age of caller ID, wouldn't it throw up a red flag to Directv if my equipment is calling from my mailing address instead of my service address?

I am with everyone in that I am fed up not having local channels in HD. Jopling stations suck. I can't even pick up ABC on its digital channel and I live a mile from the tower. :mad:

"service calls" why does your Tivo do that?

I dont have Tivo but do have SundayTicket. Does it call to get the weeks schedule for Tivo and/or Sunday ticket?

Originally posted by THX10
"service calls" why does your Tivo do that?

I dont have Tivo but do have SundayTicket. Does it call to get the weeks schedule for Tivo and/or Sunday ticket?

The Tivo calls in periodically to gather new programming information. And regarding sunday ticket, each receiver (I have 6) must be connected to a phone line to receive the "ok" to turn on sunday ticket (or at least that is my understanding). I'm not sure if the receivers connect to D* after the first week but they still have to make their calls the first week.

I've heard that a phone line is required for the initial D*Tivo setup (for inital setup call, it dials into Tivo's computers, not D*), but after that, you can unplug it. You'll get an occasionall nag box, but it will still work. All "programming" (guide) information is downloaded via the satellite dish.

Damn It!

I just tried "moving" to an area that was supposed to be eligible for DNS HD east and west coast feeds and guess what....

The regulations changed on December 16 for DNS. Now the tri-lakes region (Table Rock, Taneycomo, Bull Shoals) is part of the Springfield broadcast area and nothing is eligible for HD content there. Sure I could get my locals, but what good are those when they broadcast HD (except for KY3 and KOZK).

This is REALLY starting to piss me off. What the hell can we do!!!!!!!!!!

Is there another link that DirecTV uses that will show the correct eligible DNS areas?

Due to the new laws, the definition of a white area has changed. Now, if locals are available via D*, an address is no longer a white area, even if no OTA TV is available. And distant networks can no longer be offered. A grandfather clause allows existing customers in those areas to keep DNS.

There are a few little towns in Arkansas that are still white areas.
Certain low-lying addresses in Mountain View, AR are still in white areas. Main Street is a good place to start:)
Check:
1 (http://kevdb.infospace.com/_1_4ORU690NEZYL__info.netctr/kevdb?KCFG=US&OTMPL=%2Fres%2Fr1.html&QFM=A&QK=5&ClickTRK=REVAD1&QHN=&QST=e+Main+St&QC=Mountain+View&QS=ar)
2 (http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com)
3 (http://www.directv.com/locals)

For more discussion of SHIVA/SHVERA, go here (http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=335648#post335648).

Does anybody know if there has been any announcement regarding when the Springfield, MO Fox, CBS and ABC affiliates will go to full power HDTV? I can receive PBS and NBC HDTV OTA pretty well but only get guide information for the others on my HD TiVo. I am about 50 miles from the towers. Watching the Pittsburg - NE game in HD would have been nice.

Chris

July '05 is the full power deadline for the Big 4 in the top 100 markets, which includes Springfield, MO (Springfield is DMA #78 (http://www.nab.org/Newsroom/Issues/digitaltv/DTVstations.asp)). Deadline for all other commercial stations is July '06. Article here (http://www.tvtechnology.com/dailynews/one.php?id=2190). If they miss this deadline, they may lose interference protection for their channel.

There is no "HDTV" mandate by the FCC for any stations. Only "digital".

Originally posted by arxaw
July '05 is the full power deadline for the Big 4 in the top 100 markets, which includes Springfield, MO (Springfield is DMA #78 (http://www.nab.org/Newsroom/Issues/digitaltv/DTVstations.asp)). Deadline for all other commercial stations is July '06. Article here (http://www.tvtechnology.com/dailynews/one.php?id=2190). If they miss this deadline, they may lose interference protection for their channel.

There is no "HDTV" mandate by the FCC for any stations. Only "digital".

The guide information on my HD TiVo indicates the channels will be HDTV. Channels 10.1 CBS HD, 27.1 Fox HD, and 33.1 ABC HD. I assume HD is being broadcast low power now, although I have never seen any indication anybody can receive it but those close enough should. Hopefully July I will be able to receive those 3 in addition to the 2 I already receive. I can only hope that the channels will go full power before the mandate.

Chris

I hope this is true that they are required to go full power by July.I would sure like to see Fox digital or( HD would be better) before the Daytona 500.

I can't get 10 or 27 to respond to my emails anymore so I don't watch anything on them until they turn up the power.I still have Fox out of LA on Dish and thats where I will watch my raceing if 27 don't turn up the power.

If anyone has any info on our locals going HD, please post.

I have now saw that 21 is doing 5.1 DD on some programming. Thanks KOZK, you do have people watching and enjoying your HD broadcasts.

OK here is some info...


UPN15 will not be HD anytime soon, there is no FCC digital licensing for analog stations in low power. Plus KYTV does not have bandwidth on the tower to broadcast it in HD. Also KOZK is renting the KY3 tower for their broadcast so it's being used to its full potential. WB has the same situation as UPN since it is a low power station.

ABC - KSPR is installing their HD sat uplinks this summer from what I have heard. But they will not be broadcasting in HD anytime this year. They have to upgrade or build a new tower before they will be broadcasting HD.

FOX - KSFX has wasted a ton of money rebranding so they of course still claim they can't afford to upgrade to HD. The truth is they have no desire to upgrade and I doubt they will unless they are forced by the FCC. Full power digital? Somewhere there is a loophole in the FCC law I can't remember the exact statute but expect them to use it.

CBS - KOLR Same as Fox.

So maybe it's time to go over the heads of KOLR and KSFX management. I encourage people to try writing nexstar broadcasting which owns these stations.

I can't post a link so visit nexstar(dot)tv

You won't get any response from Nexstar because they have no interest in giving their viewers free HDTV. They plan to lease the "excess bandwidth" normally used for HDTV to pay services like USDTV (http://www.usdtv.com/).

Yeah I know how to post a link but the board doesn't allow you to post links until you have 5 posts. And that's crap about nexstar, just what we need. the same crap already get.

Here's an article I bookmarked a while back about Nexstar and other station owners' multicasting plans (http://broadcastengineering.com/news/broadcasting_overtheair_multichannel_plan/).

Thanks MSpin and all you guys for the info. I have emailed Nextar and the networks about being so unhappy with KOLR and KSFX. I do have the locals on dish, but I will not watch any programming on these channels just as a protest. I would encourage anyone not to advertise on these channels until they get us a signal up.Nextar may think they are saving money, but I think this will backfire on them.

I just received a return email from Nancy @ Fox27 that I sent long ago. She surely reads this forum, thanks Nancy if you do for returning my email.

She says they will be full power HDTV in 2006. I sure wish it could be sooner,that could be 1year or 1 1/2 or near 2 years away.

2006, well that's better than they used to say. The chief engineer used to say not until the FCC forces them to broadcast in HD

Originally posted by MSpin
... The chief engineer used to say not until the FCC forces them to broadcast in HD That would be never. The FCC is not forcing any broadcasters to do HDTV. They are forcing full power analog broadcasters to increase their digital transmitters to full power.

It seems like the local channels would be happy to give us a waiver until they can get up and running in HD just to keep us happy. Every time I have ask, they say no way.

When I spoke with the Fox and KOLR engineers this past summer via telephone, they both indicated their parent company had no plans of even thinking about budgeting the money for HD anytime in the next few years. They also said they were not going to do anything until it was mandated by law.

It is sad when an employee of a company bashes the company they work for. Both engineers were really upset about it. Oh yeah also I have spoken to a few cameramen at both stations during various interviews and news stuff (i work for a local municipality and the news crews are always around) and they talk about how it sucks working for them and they wished they worked for KY3. ROFL They are even jealous of KY3s new cameras that are 'HD ready'.

Just another reason why people should pull their advertising from KOLR and Fox locally, but of course that would be self-defeating. What a twisted little community we live in.

Originally posted by THX10
... Just another reason why people should pull their advertising from KOLR and Fox locally... Nex$tar is losing lots of viewers and advertisers are pulling their ads, in every town where Cox Cable carries (or carried) nex$tar stations :)

Articles here (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&tab=wn&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=nexstar+cox+joplin&btnG=Search+News).

I know my tv is always set on KY3,but I would start exploring other channels if they would start giving us a HD signal.I would also like to see more than 5 people on this board. I believe their are alot of people in this area that has HDTV's that would like to see the locals in HD. (although I only know 2 other people that has one and neither one has a tuner) I don't know many people though.

I have been lucky enough to be grandfathered in to being able to recieve the Direct TV network package so I can get the east and west HD feeds of the networks on D-TV but if the Locals would up their HD power they would get my viewing.

crwillared,
You're lucky you have the E & W HD feeds. Since the satellite laws recently changed, it's no longer possible for D* to offer them, if locals are also available on D* in your area.

Additionally, if you don't already subscribe to locals via D* and call to order them, they will shut off your E & W feeds. If you currently have E & W feeds and locals via D*, you can keep them. However, in the future you may be forced to choose between keeping either the E/W feeds or the locals. Also, if you drop the E/W feeds, you will not be able to re-order them in the future, regardless of your grandfather status.

Bottom line, don't make any changes to that part of your D* subscription!

I know!

Originally posted by MRUSS
It seems like the local channels would be happy to give us a waiver until they can get up and running in HD just to keep us happy. Every time I have ask, they say no way.

I wrote KOLR and I did receive a response to my opinion they should either broadcast an HDTV signal I can receive or grant a waiver so I can receive CBS from DirecTV. There position was clear, I can receive an analog signal and that is good enough. Now I get KOLR SDTV from DirecTV so even if waivers can still be granted, there is no hope. Our only hope is that eventually public outcry will result in a full power HDTV signal. It is clear it won't be anytime soon.

I am hopeful that DirecTV will somehow offer The Masters in HD over the first two days as they did last year on a special events channel.

Chris

crwillared, I am just across the border from you. My address was a "white area" for CBS, ABC, and FOX so I get the distants of those networks on DirecTV.

KY3 would not give me a waiver to get the distant NBC feeds. I automatically qualified for the other 3 without waivers.

It is a shame KOLR 10 and company will not give us a HD feed, or even a digital feed down here. I can never get a lock on their signal.

Luckily for me, I can lock the CBS and ABC affiliates from the Fayetteville/Ft. Smith DMA. They broadcast all HD feeds of their networks.

You might be close enough to lock their signal as well. Digital channels 15 and 18 if you want to give it a try...... channel 9 would be the AETN PBS network......

Good luck.

I found this forum as I was doing some research before purchasing an OTA receiver.

I must say that I'm disappointed with our selection of digital broadcasts and the glaring lack of HD content in this area. I can't justify purchasing a receiver after seeing what's available. Being able to watch The Tonight Show and Nature in HD aren't big enough reasons for me to spend $300.

Maybe we should write our respective congressmen. (or women as the case may be)

Nextar is just holding us hostage. If they can't provide us a service(or won't) then you should be able to buy this somewhere else if it's available and you have the money. We are being discriminated against just because of where we live. Luckily I qualify for Fox distants and thats the one I will watch when nascar begins raceing again. I'm thing about canceling all my locals on sat except 3 and 21 because it burns my face red when I see 10,
27 and 33 in my epg. They have had plenty of time to get equipment in place to give us an HD signal. I think KY3 started broadcasting HD in 2001 didn,t they?

Originally posted by MRUSS
Nextar is just holding us hostage.... We are being discriminated against just because of where we live... No.

nexstar (http://nexstar.tv/) doesn't discriminate. They aren't doing HD at any of their stations. We have the same problem down here in Little Rock with the nexstar-owned NBC affiliate KARK. Low power and no HD. It sucks, but there's not much you can do about it, except maybe complain to the FCC's DTV task force chairman Rick Chessen (mailto:rchessen@fcc.gov).

I am soooooo tired of the delay tactics of these local station, so I just got off the phone with kusat.

I am eagerly awaiting my BEV 6120 package (6100 and dish), basic pack and HD pack, $35.00 p/mo, plus taxes.

ABC, NBC, CBX, FOX, both east and west coast HD, plus a few others.

I'll report later on the PQ and other issues.

Very Interesting aharris.Keep in touch.

UGH!

Let them know what you think about the crawl on the news!

Hey guys. I'm new to the forum just wanting to say hi. I'm just another pissed off Springfield person because of nexstar. I currently have HD through mediacom but as you all know thats not much. Thinking about going satellite when I move to my new place. Any suggestions?

Originally posted by apitzu
...Thinking about going satellite when I move to my new place. Any suggestions? IMO, DirecTV has the best HD equipment. They are also launching several new satellites this year to significantly increase HD capacity.

I have DirecTV HD and my twin has Mediacom HD. My picture quality is so much better. Plus he had to buy an OTA receiver to get 3 and 21 in HD whereas I didnt.

Also, the "digitial" channels on his Mediacom look like ass. Though I do have to admit his HD picture quality is pretty good. But I think mine is better.

Go with Directv

apitzu,
You can get up to 4 rooms installed free, including 1 HD receiver, by going to this DirecTV web site (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/ProspectOffer.do). Value Electronics (http://www.*********************/hdtv.htm) also usually has some good deals on new or refurbished HD receivers.

Also, check out Circuit City or Best Buy. They often run very good specials on DirecTV HD systems.

Quick question...

Is there ANY way to get (or pay for) the Superbowl in HD here in Springfield?

And I am talking at home, not in a bar somewhere.

thanks

cjc

Not unless you "move" with DirecTV

tried that already, but the new stupid regulations have me bent over and they are not using any vasoline nor did they even kiss me first.

Originally posted by apitzu
Hey guys. I'm new to the forum just wanting to say hi. I'm just another pissed off Springfield person because of nexstar. I currently have HD through mediacom but as you all know thats not much. Thinking about going satellite when I move to my new place. Any suggestions?

Depending on your monthly budget. If you want HD go with Voom. $1 for up to 3 HD receivers installed with antenna for local (if any) HD's. Must keep service of at least Voom package $49/ mo. Va va voom package $69 includes all movie channels. Up to 39 HD channels , check out their websight. Voom may be sold to Dish Net probably be same programming. Just send money to a different place. Best Guess!

Dish Network will give you 2 HD receivers and 1 dual tuner DVR free. Free install included. Their deal you must subscribe for 1 year HD package and basic package. $30 + 10$ = $40. HD package currently ESPNHD, TNTHD, HDNET, HDMovie channel,HD PPV movies, and Discovery HD. soon to be added ESPN2HD. Some Voom HD channels will probably be offered also if sale goes through. On your own for OTA but receiver will pick up OTA and does an excellent job just need an antenna. Also have a HD DVR receiver cost $550 for that or $279 if first time customer.

I do not see where DirectTV will give you a HD receiver. Will give you a DVR receiver for $50 as special offer. Programming a few $ more then Dish (no big deal though) still get free install for up to 3 receivers. They do have NFL sunday ticket exclusively if you don't mind spending the bucks. Otherwise programming about the same and PQ about the same on all three. With the edge to Voom for HD. Good Luck.

Thanks for doing the races in HD Fox. In a couple of years we might get to see them in HD here in SW Missouri. Until then I will watch my Fox out of LA.I will not support Fox27.

I am happy to report NO PROBLEMS with BEV in Spr. What you are missing I am seeing, and very well I might add!

Lets see, Sunday NASCAR in HD, then the Oscars at night!

Follow up to Sunday TV. The Nascar race was very nice, great aound a PQ, the Oscars were awesome also. The sound on the Seattle station was a little better, but all in all, a really nice deal.

I came from Florida, and had every network HD OTA, it is nice to have them back!

Too bad there is no HD DVR for BEV. Or I would be there in a moment.

You have lost me with 'BEV'

please explain

Bell ExpressVu. Search avsforum or google for info.

It's a Canadian DBS service sold as gray market service in the US, using a Canadian address broker.

BEV subscriptions work similar to "moving" your DirecTV service address to a "white area address" to get HD networks. In either case, you're telling the provider you live somewhere you don't, so you can get a service they don't or can't normally provide in your area.

So from what I can gather, I need to get a, or add a new system to receive it.

Not sure if my homeowners association will allow that. Of course I am already in violation anyway with my dish "above roofline" lol

Your homeowners can't stop you from putting a dish up. Even above the roofline. There are FCC regulations that allow you to have Antennas and Dishes even if there are homeowners groups trying to prevent it.

http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html

Originally posted by aharris
I am happy to report NO PROBLEMS with BEV in Spr... If the address broker is billing your credit card (instead of BEV), you risk being eventually shut down, since in all probability your equipment has been activated on a "stacked" account (multiple STBs illegally activated on one BEV or D* account).

DirecTV is cracking down on stacked accounts by address brokers in Canada, and BEV may do the same here. If they ever do, your BEV equipment will end up being useless.

Article from Business Wire (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20050303005656&newsLang=en)

Discussion thread of stacked accounts, over at DBSForums.com (http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=345682#post345682)

I dont see that as a risk, my cc is billed direct by BEV.

Still smiling!

If BEV is billing you, you are using a legit "address broker"

I just can't watch tv without a DVR anymore. I just won't watch any network programming until my locals can provide me a HD or Digital signal or I can buy it from E* or D*. It's a shame in this day and time that we have to go to Canada to get US TV. I'm happy for you aharris but I guess I will just have to wait it out.

OK now i am just confused.

With this BEV stuff, I can utilize my current equipment and receive HD content, provided i go thru a legit dealer?

This is just way too much **** just to get a couple of stations in HD that the locals should be providing anyway here in the black hole of technology - Springfield MO.

Originally posted by THX10
... With this BEV stuff, I can utilize my current equipment and receive HD content, provided i go thru a legit dealer?No.

You need a BEV receiver, a dish pointed at the BEV satellite(s) and a subscription to their programming.

BEV receivers are the same equipment as DishNetwork, but you have to purchase the equipment from BEV, because the serial and receiver numbers are different for each company. IOW, BEV won't activate a receiver purchased from DishNetwork, & vice versa.

When you get right down to it, there really is quite a bit of true HD programming that IS worth the effort to do the BEV deal.

Does HD programming change your life, no way. But watching good programming like CSi (whatever city), Alias, LOST, PBS, in HD really enhances it.

I guess doing the grey-market thing does kind of thumb-your-nose at the local broadcasters, but I have gotten over that. I am simply enjoying all the shows that I want to see, in the best possible pace (my HT), in the best available format.

I guess I could have a showing if people wanted to see what it looked like...let me know.

If the local broadcasters wanted us to watch them, they would provide us an HD signal. Sorry, but I don't feel sorry for them at all. They have had plenty of time to upgrade there equipment and towers. I will just watch KY3 and KOZK for now until the others decide to do something.

Thanks for the help guys. Unfortunately I just found out I will be living in a loft apartment next year AGAIN. So i guess im stuck with Mediacom again since i cant really figure a way to get dish in an apartment... maybe in another year some of the locals will sack up and get HD....

I have yet to hear a valid reason as to why more local Springfield channels aren't carrying HD. And I really wish they wouldn't say there wasn't a demand because they are so full of crap.

Local stations owned by large out of state corporations like Nexstar, Sinclair, Allbritton, etc. have no local control over things like upgrading to HD. Those decisions are made at the corporate level. Most of those companies don't give s**t about HD or DTV (except for selling bandwidth to multicast services like U$DTV (http://www.usdtv.com/)). They view it as an unnecessary expense, especially in smaller markets.

Ok, now that I know why they don't do it, this is a plea for them to start doing something about it. :)

Does anyone know if 10,27 and 33 will be required to turn up the power July 1st or not? It would be nice if they did even if is just digital.

Originally posted by MRUSS
Does anyone know if 10,27 and 33 will be required to turn up the power July 1st The "big 4" network affiliates in the top 100 markets are required to go full power by July 1, 2005. Of course, some of them will apply for exesions, claiming various reasons they can't make the deadline.

But the FCC is getting pretty serious about converting to DTV and will likely force most of them to comply.

Full power for what? HD or for digital signal transmission? Will this even help cable users (like myself)? I don't see how, given that their signals aren't received over the air (duh :) ).

Originally posted by ideraid
Full power for what? HD or for digital signal transmission? Digital broadcasts over the air.

The FCC is not forcing anyone to broadcast in HDTV. The stations can choose from 18 different formats, most of which are not HD. However, eventually many of the networks may force their affiliates to pass network HD, or risk losing their network affiliation. That's down the road though.

Will this even help cable users (like myself)? Probably not, but It's not about cable users, it's about OTA reception, which believe it or not is still the way a lot of people watch TV.

Can anyone recommend a good OTA tuner for HD? Any HD antenna recommendations?

I just bought an XG91 UHF antenna from antennas direct in St. Louis. It is an excellent choice.

I saw a dramatic increase in signal strength..........

The USDigital tuner at WalMart (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2598451&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3964%3A163399%3A115061) works well. It's only $198.00 and you can return it at any walmart store if you don't like it.

I also bought the XG91 about a month ago and a Philips amp at Walmart with 28db gain. I live probably 40 to 50 miles from the towers and under a hill with no line of sight to the towers.I had the best radio shack antenna I could buy before and I was getting about 85 percent on my 921 on KY3 and about 70 percent on channel 21. Now with my XG91 and amp I'm maxed out at 125 on KY3 and bouncing from 115 to 120 on channel 21. I'm also sniffing 27 but can't lock it in. If only 27 would turn their power up a little more the digital signal picture would probably beat the picture from satelite.

The crazy thing here where I live is a get close to 100% signal from KY3, get about 30% from KOLR and KSFX, but can't get any strength at all from KOZK.

Is their antenna in the Fordland area too?

The XG 91 was able to bring in Fayetteville/ Ft. Smith channels that were sketchy before..........

Yes KOZK is at Fordland. I think someone reported here that it is on the KY3 tower.KOZK is nice to get if you have kids at home,(which I don't,all of mine have grown up,I'm getting old) they do PBSKIDS in the day and PBSYOU. HD starts at 6:00 pm to 6:00 am.I have saw some things in 5.1 dd.

My KSFX signal will bounce from 70 to 50 to 0.I think it may be multipathing, (what ever that is),I figure it's bouncing on the hills.

I can't get anything on KOLR.

That is wonderful that KOZK is passing *12* hours of HD programming per night, we only get three down in Arkansas via AETN (http://www.aetn.org) and its only been in the last month, after the spring begfest, er fundraiser. Our flagship station of the Arkansas public tv network, KETS is using a lowband VHF channel (5) and a directional antenna and low power.

BTW, I've seen KYTV on several occations during tropo openings--its nice to know that NBC is actually broadcasting HD programming. Our NBC station is owned by the fine folks that own the Springfield FOX station---therefore, NBC is barely above the level of the WB as HD/DTV is concerned in Little Rock.

Hang in there folks, or if you live near the Arkansas border, build a taller antenna mast ;)

Has an event here where I work and all the local media was out (KY3, KSPR, FSFX, KOLR) and was able to corner the KOLR people.

Of course I had to ask about the HD (or lack thereof) and their plans. They told me that KOLR is the second largest station in their company, but has no plans until possibly 2008 to roll out HD. Then she started giving me the crap about cost and blah blah blah.

Oh well

The nexstar NBC station down here in Little Rock recently spent millions for a new building and digital studio. NO HD though. Stupid IDIOTS.

I guess the only way to get the locals in HD is to buy the station. Who wants to join me in starting a collection?

If I understand it correct, we will be able to get the networks in HD next year if our locals won't give us a signal. That should bring them to their milk.They may just turn the power up for digital and that may disqualify us to receive them on satellite.

Originally posted by MRUSS
... They may just turn the power up for digital and that may disqualify us to receive them on satellite. They would have to turn up the power and transmit in HD in order to disqualify you.

Where did yo get this information? My last understanding was stations could broadcast multichannel digital OR HD... their choice. If they chose not to broadcast HD that was just tough. When/how did this change? Any specifics appreciated.

Information found by search of avsforum, http://dbsforums.com and http://satelliteguys.us for keywords: SHVERA and SHIVA

Later this year, if you can't get the big 4 in HD (not just digital) over the air from your local station, you'll qualify to get the network feed from NY or LA via satellite.

Oh come on now.... dont tease me.

So let me get this straight.

IF I cant receive Fox, CBS and ABC in HD sometime later this year, THEN I will be able to receive them (at a cost) over DirecTV?

AFAIK, yes.

Originally posted by arxaw
AFAIK, yes.

With all due respect, and I mean this sincerely - your post count indicates a serious commitment to this forum - I simply can't find anything to support this assertion at the sites you indicated, or on any other site, and I've searched to my best ability.

I would really appreciate a specific link to a thread that supports your belief that we may be eligible to receive HD DNS later this year via satellite, if no equivalent local OTA service is available.

If true, this would be a *significant* change in how current regulations have been widely interpreted until this point in time, and I believe we would be reading about it in hundreds, if not thousands, of places, both online and otherwise.

I'm strongly skeptical of this information, but would joyfully and enthusiastically admit my error if there has been some kind of change. No one would enjoy high-definition distant network feeds via D* more than me. I would *love* the chance to lawfully support more high-definition program sources with my personal dollars, and thumb my nose at the arrogant, short-sighted owners of the local affiliates who steadfastly and shamefully refuse to plan for the inevitable future.

And then, just to pour more salt in the wound, they rudely refuse to grant, or even seriously consider, waivers for those of us willing to pay for such services from competing sources, smugly hiding behind an anonymous corporate wall of cowardly indifference. (Ever wonder if the owners, and friends and families of the owners, of these same affiliates, or others with "connections" to these folks, have easy access to waivers that the rest of us can't possibly hope to get? I sure do. I'd love to see some kind of "sunshine" regulations that allowed us to see who gets the rare waivers that *do* get granted.)

Having the ability to legally support some true competition for these foot-dragging luddites would be good for my soul. Alas, I fear we are much more than a few months away from this delightful possibility. I truly hope I'm wrong.

PLM

I will look for the site where I read about this and post back when I find it. I'm leaving town in just a few minutes, so it may take a while to find the article and get back.

http://www.advanced-television.com/2004/news_archive_2004/Dec6_Dec10.htm#bush

We are fortunate down here in the southern part of the Springfield DMA, as we already qualify for 3 of the 4 network HD channels on satellite.

Originally posted by arxaw
http://www.advanced-television.com/2004/news_archive_2004/Dec6_Dec10.htm#bush

OK, I'm going to give my comments on the linked article by quoting the article below, with my comments (and personal interpretation) inline:


US President Bush has signed into law a $388 billion (E292 billion) appropriations package which includes provisions regarding satellite reception. The new law, the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act (SHVERA) of 2004, gives the satellite TV industry 18 months to phase out a two-dish solution for reception of a certain set of local services, an item that targets EchoStar and its use of two dishes for receiving a select set of local TV channels for a number of markets.


This doesn't really do anything but set up our ability to receive Lil and SV (significantly viewed) stations with a single-dish, instead of a multi-dish setup. Nothing here to indicate a change in who can and can't receive HD distant networks


The act also includes a provision allowing satellite TV to deliver "significantly viewed" stations to consumers who live outside the station's home market. In addition, the new provisions extend for five years the compulsory license that allows DBS services to provide super-stations and distant network signals.


Without getting into the arcane, complex, legalistic and conflicting definitions of "significantly viewed," Greene county, in the latest version of the SHVERA document (at http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-24A1.pdf), only has the *local* NBC, CBS, ABC and Fox affiliates listed as "significantly viewed". All of these are already locally broadcast OTA and available on both cable and via DBS Lil subscriptions (along with the non-mentioned-by-SHVERA PBS, UPN and WB networks), and, of these, only NBC (and the non-SV PBS) offers any HD OTA signal (*not* available anywhere except OTA). No joy, here either, I'm afraid.

As for the "super-stations" and "distant network signals" language, there is nothing here except a 5-year extension of the current unremarkable and useless state of affairs, which prevents those of us in at least a class B contour (everyone in Greene county) from receiving DNS in either SD or HD form, without a waiver or a grandfathered DNS service. Hopefully, D* and E* will offer HD superstations to us at some point. Won't help with first-run major network programming, though.


SHVERA also allows for the creation of a "digital white area," which will allow satellite TV companies to deliver distant broadcast digital and high-definition signals to consumers who cannot receive a local digital TV signal.


There seems to be conflicting information and interpretations over whether this language actually was included in the signed legislation, but, even if it was, the language above only indicates the possibility that we can receive DNS and HD programming if we can't receive a local "digital" TV signal. Digital is *not* equal to HD, and the current non-HD-broadcasting affiliates (everyone but NBC and PBS) have been clear that they intend to take advantage of their ability to broadcast SD digital (instead of HD) to prevent those in the broadcast area from legally subscribing to alternative HD sources. All this while they also state that they have no plans to implement HD broadcasts until forced to do so by currently non-existent legislation (including the SHVERA referenced above).

I find nothing in this article to lend support to the belief that anyone in Greene county that wants to will be able to legally subscribe to HD distant networks delivered by a digital satellite service (or a cable service either, for that matter) anytime in the near (or forseeable) future.

Again, I most sincerely hope I'm wrong.

PLM

The signifcantly viewed stuff is not fair at all. Here in Harrison the local cable offers the Little Rock networks minus Fox in addition to the Springfield networks. According to the FCC documents, on satellite we are not allowed the Little Rock locals.............

As more HD channels become available on satellite the local channels that don't provide us an HD signal will just lose viewers.(anyway thats how I feel about it,but who am I) I have more HD now than I have time to watch tv.I would still like to have more options though.

I will live in hope that arxaw is right on this.I don't think SHEVRA wanted to make this very clear to anyone so they can have some wiggle room.

Originally posted by Arkie
The signifcantly viewed stuff is not fair at all. Here in Harrison the local cable offers the Little Rock networks minus Fox in addition to the Springfield networks. According to the FCC documents, on satellite we are not allowed the Little Rock locals.............

Arkie,

I visted Eureka Springs, AR last October, even though ES is in the Springfield DMA, the local cable carries 3 Little Rock networks, the Springfield networks (execpt PBS) and a couple of Fayettville networks. I don't really understand why cable companys have a pass on showing adjacnent DMA stations, while Sat companys are so highly restricted by SHIVA. I also remember my grandmother getting LR locals on Berryville cable from 1991 onward, although she was a stanch KY-3 news viewer...

Is Cox cable there offering HD at all (ESPN-HD, HBO-HD, etc) or do you have to settle for what KYTV throws across the border. If you have an antenna, have you received KTHV (digital 12) or KLRT (digital 30)--both from Little Rock, during tropo openings?

Harry, the local cable here has carried the LR locals since the 70's at least. I don't have the option of subscribing to cable as I am out of the reach of Cox cable here in rural Boone County. I don't think they offer much in the way of HD though.

I am able to get KYTV HD, and can also get KHOG and KFSM in HD from Fayetteville/Fort Smith. I have also occasionally seen KTHV, KLRT, and the UPN station from LR at times.

You are right about KY3. Growing up with cable in Harrison we had the option of LR or Springfield news. We always watched KY3 for news and weather, and channel 7 in LR for Razorback sports.

KY3 seems to be the most popular down here, not sure which one is popular up in Springfield.

Arkie,

When July 1st gets here, You might be able to receive KATV-HD if conditions are open. Currently the station operates low power with a directional antenna, but what will happen with the deadline for full-power operation is anyone's guess.

Glad to hear you can get 3 of the 4 major networks in HD. (well UPN, is a subchannel on KYTV 3-2, but thats another matter). Our local WB station, KWBF is scheduled to operate on channel 44 (same as KYTV) when it goes online--if it ever does.

Well, I will be waiting and at 12:01 July 1, I will be calling DirecTV and trying to subscribe to those HD feeds that we cant get here.

You will not be able to get the feeds from directv on July 1. If I remember correctly they have to wait 6 months after the deadline before they can offer distants. Still i don't know if they can provide HD if a DTV signal is available. No one really knows until it happens.

That's just great.......With a timeline like that, it puts it past football season!

I love Springfield, but I do hate this black hole of technology we live in!

Got me 10 new HD channels from dish.I would like to have Fox, but this will satisfy me for awhile.

Dish or DirecTv?

what channels are they? are they CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, etc or just the usual HDNet, HBOHD, SHOHD, etc?

No networks,just 10 of the 21 channels Voom had.Dish picked these up when Voom shut there service down at midnight on the 30th. Should have all 21 channels by the end of this year.The picture looks real good,I will probably watch Equator and the news channel the most.

Originally posted by MSpin
You will not be able to get the feeds from directv on July 1. If I remember correctly they have to wait 6 months after the deadline before they can offer distants. The FCC hasn't even decided how to determine
whether a household is able to receive over-the-air DTV signals, so it will likely be a long time before the "digital white areas" become reality. See:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/dlrf/one.php?id=848

Dont know if this would help or not, but did anyone see the Springfield News-Leader on Saturday.

Springfield DMA (more or less) is the first region to have more sat owners than cable.

Anyone have an idea if this would help/hurt us?

I don't think it will make any difference as far as us getting locals OAR.

I posted the link for the article at satelliteguys for people to read thats interested.

I will just enjoy my Voom channels till the locals come through with some HD OAR.

OAR?

Over Air Reception?

Oh.

OAR is usually short for Original Aspect Ratio on AVSForum. That's why I asked....

i dont know if i am right i was just guessing

I have always seen over the air abbreviated to OTA in the past..........

Sorry guys, my mind is about shot. It is OTA for over the air.

Anyway, are there any news on our locals from anyone?

Hey guys, I just picked up an HDTV over the weeked with a built in HD tuner.

Anyway, I live in Nixa have an antenna in my attic, pointed North North East, and here are the channels I've found.

KYTV - NBC- 3.1 - Great Signal. Top shows are in HD, Law and Order, Jay...
UPN 15 - 3.2 - I have not seen any true HD on this channel

KSPR - ABC - 19.1 - Not sure if they are broadcasting any HD or just 480i digital signal.

KOZK - PBS - 23.1 - Nice clear PBS signal.
PBS HD - PBS 23.2 - WOW nice. I grew up with PBS so seeing NOVA in HD is great. 6PM to 6AM I think.
PBSKIDS - PBS 23.3 - Kids programming from 6am-6pm it looks like.
PBSYOU - PBS 23.4 - SMS classes and other educational programming.

KSFX - FOX - 27.1 - Seems to be digital broadcast with no HD content.

Cebridge Cable (Ozark and Nixa) has NO HD content. The local CBS station KOLR 10 says they will actually be broadcasting in HD sometime in 2006, but they had no control over it and no actual date yet. That was the biggest let down as most of our TV viewing is CBS.

From reading this thread it seems that getting Dish Network will not give me any more Network HD than I'm getting now.

Have I missed anything?

Nice to here from you am_pcguy.

No you can't get the networks in HD from dish, but the other 16 HD channels are great and being able to record with the 921 or 942 makes it well worth it. Even record your local OTA HD and digital channels with these receivers makes it great. Only have guide info on KY3 though so you have to set up manual recording on other locals.

Thanks

I'm going to try to hold off on Dish for now. My wife and I are planning on going OTA only when we move to our new home next week. Nobody even thinks this is an option anymore :). I've had so many people try to sell me on cable or dish, these are friends and co-works, not the people at best buy.

We have over 400 DVD's and if there is nothing on we can just throw a movie in... I'm kind of interested in seeing how long we can go without pay TV.

am_pcguy....here is the lowdown on Springfield HD:

It is crap!

KY3 and PBS are the ONLY ones broadcasting in HD (3-1 and 21-2)

All the other are the minimum required by law to broadcast in digitial which is 480p.

KOLR, KSPR, FOX have absolutley NO intention of going HD until it is mandated by Federal Law and that is from their engineers. Sad, very sad.

I am a DirecTv owner and love the HD I get from it. I am just one of the many in our area that is upset (pissed) about how little we have locally.

Just read this string and you will find the frustration.

But glad to see someone else in the area found this forum.

Originally posted by THX10
am_pcguy....here is the lowdown on Springfield HD:

It is crap!

KY3 and PBS are the ONLY ones broadcasting in HD (3-1 and 21-2)

Well it could be worse. I wish FOX and CBS were HD but I'm sure they will get there at some point. I was really excited to see NASCAR is comming to NBC in July. I really hope the races are broadcast in HD. I'm just enjoying PBS-HD right now, maybe just because it's new but it looks amazing.

Any of you guys have any idea why I get a signal in the 90's from KY3, but no signal at all from PBS? I can't figure it out.....

What type of antenna do you have? I had an indoor antenna and got a very good signal from KY3 but no PBS at all. Now I have an outdoor antenna and it picked up a strong signal from KY3 and PBS and Ok signal from KSPR and KSFX.

I also used antennaweb.org and a compass to make sure the antenna was pointed in the correct direction.

Hope that helps.

I can't understand why you can't get PBS either Arkie. I looked back in the threads and you have the same antenna as I have,(XG91) and it is doing great for me. I just checked my signal strength on 3 and its 93% and 21 is 91% on my 942.

Also am_pcguy,I believe all races will be in HD this year on NBC and TNTHD.

I also get a 93 signal from KYTV, but a 0 from KOZK. I can even get KOLR and KSFX signals in the 20's. I have never seen any signal from KSPR.....

The Arkansas Public Television station in Fayetteville is on Channel 9, my XG 91 is a UHF only antenna, but I can sometimes pick it up anyways.......

Every now and then I get the PBS from Joplin on channel 25 I think????

Here's a map of the AETN (PBS) stations in Arkansas:
http://www.aetn.org/transmitternfo/transmitterpic.jpg

You guys are mentioning TNTHD. Problem is, nobody broadcasts that in our area.

Am I mistaken on this? Mediacom doesnt nor does DirecTv.

Originally posted by THX10
You guys are mentioning TNTHD. Problem is, nobody broadcasts that in our area.

Am I mistaken on this? Mediacom doesnt nor does DirecTv.

Dish Network does. It's nice to watch the NBA playoffs in HD. The rest is usually pretty weak though.

TNT seems to be doing more HD all the time. They done one race last year in HD, (well 2 counting the busch race.) They have 7 cup races and 13 busch scheduled for this year and all are supposed to be in HD. Not sure about all busch races. Even if not done in HD it still looks better than TNTSD channel.

I'm happy with dish, but directv has made alot of promises and they will surely pick this channel up soon.

Just called DirecTv about my service. I forgot they automatically sign you up for the next season of NFL Sunday Ticket and once I saw they were going to charge me an additional $99 for the HD feeds and still not be able to watch the Chiefs or Rams in HD becuase of blackout regulations, it just isnt worth it.

Also had the CSR check on HD feeds for nationals and still no luck in our area.

BTW, do not believe the DirecTv blackout list for NFL. It says that springfield isnt in a local market and will receive all feeds. yeah right

Just called DirecTv about my service...
Also had the CSR check on HD feeds for nationals and still no luck in our area...
HD DNS (Distant Network Service) is on hold until the FCC determines who qualifies. The FCC hasn't even decided yet on how to determine that. So, DNS HD feeds are on the back burner.

The reason you can't get KOZK is because you are outside the broadcast radius.

KYTV-DT operates at a power level of 967 kW
KOZK-DT operates at a power level of 100 kW

It's odd that you can get KSFX-DT and KOLR-DT

KSFX operates at 3.79 kW
KOLR operates at 3.51 kW

July 1 mandates full power

KSFX - 960 kW
KOLR - 1000 kW
KSPR - 1000 kW (currently 2.28 kW)

This is what is listed at the FCC.



-Spin

But what good is that if they are not broadcasting in HD?

Yeah it sucks that they are not in HD. But hey I "LIVE" in NYC. So I get them via directv.

Are the local stations actually going full power July 1st?

I have OTA only, I'm not going to decided on a pay TV option until my home theater is built. It would be nice to get a clear digital signal from all the locals Hi-Def or not.

MSpin

please explain. i actually have relatives in NY.

I think MSpin means he "moved" his satellite service address to NY to get the DNS HD feeds.

I "moved" to an address in a small town in Arkansas that qualifies for DNS feeds so I could get them in HD. To qualify, an address must not be able to get OTA TV at all, and must be in an area that cannot get local channels via DirecTV.

DNS qualification is based on an address by address basis, not ZIP Code.

I understand that, but when I tried the regulations had changed. But I was "moving" from Springfield to the lakes area.

Going from springfield to NY is a big hop.

Sure it's a big hop but it fixes the problem. I have a friend there who has cable so I use his address for my service address. It gives me all the East coast HD feeds. So I can get my HD ABC, FOX, and CBS here in springpatch. I actually still use the local NBC unless they show springfield cardinal games during primetime.

S

The reason you can't get KOZK is because you are outside the broadcast radius.

KYTV-DT operates at a power level of 967 kW
KOZK-DT operates at a power level of 100 kW

It's odd that you can get KSFX-DT and KOLR-DT

KSFX operates at 3.79 kW
KOLR operates at 3.51 kW

July 1 mandates full power

KSFX - 960 kW
KOLR - 1000 kW
KSPR - 1000 kW (currently 2.28 kW)

This is what is listed at the FCC.



-Spin

So will KOZK bump up their signal then? and how does this compare to the analog signal strength. I cant find that information on any of their websites.

thanks

cjc

I have actually started picking up the KOZK signal the past week or so here. Maybe they have increased their power? I also notice a drop in the KY3 signal the same time period. It has gone from always in the 90's, to down in the 70's.

Could the two be related?

I have also saw signal strength changes on KOZK this past week. It has been running from mid 80's to mid 90's, today about 91% and KY3 about 92%.

I wish KY3 would do something about the digital picture on UPN, it is terrible on my tv.

I sure hope to see a power increase on our other locals by July 1st. I'm afraid Nexstar has figured a way out of it. My dad lives only about a mile from me,( but on a hill) can pick up KSFX and KOLR at about 64% on his 811 receiver. I see that he has guide info on KSFX but not KOLR.I can't tell how good the picture is as he only has an analog square box but it is better than his analog picture.