With DVI... you will. I have a DVI DVD Player and notice a big difference between DVI and Component. So I am anxious for them to get the DVI up and going.

I can tell you my acid test: Watching Star Trek on UPN. Looks OK on the tube TV but, when projected, it looks pretty bad. I hope the 6200 will improve that a bit.

It should. I have read that with a projector type setup... that DVI make the pic look perfect.

I just gone mine installed. I had to explain to the tech that he did not need to fix my wiring, just swap the box. He did and was done quickly. I'll test it tonight.

Same here!

2 trucks showed! LOL! Told me tongue in check I was "Special".... LOL!

Told the guys the story, they go "early box huh!" Not a problem. Switched it right off...left me a spare set of their HD cables (which I cant use for my HD (I use a special component to HD15 cable), but for second DVD player....) they are so proud of!

I noticed MUCH better detail and tone (lighter) right away on CBS 2. I will watch some and get back if it looks better across the board. Right now Lakers in HD...so you understand why I'm not checking it out right at the moment!

BTW....download the 6200 Manual here:

http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/support/default.asp?supportSection=HomeEntertainment

Thanks for the heads up on this!

Cheers!

Well, I am glad that everyone is getting the newer boxes. Now let's hope that COX activates the Firewire and DVI in June without any hicups or delays.

"noticed MUCH better detail and tone (lighter) right away on CBS 2"


Jet,

The game sucks tonight-PQ great-no energy from purple & gold. . CBS 2 ,analog?


Robert

I take it all back--except PQ

Robert

Great game when it Counted!!!!

And the PQ was darn nice too! Nice one by ESPN-HD.

HD installed today. 6200 box as hoped

WOW !!..........

I got some exposure to HD on a 55" rear proj TV a few weeks back and that looked great, but this is absolutely amazing (Sony VPL-HS20 HD front projector on a 100" screen)

Watched a couple of minutes (sorry, not much of a BB fan) of Laker game and Shaq was almost full size !! Just finished watching West Wing and picture also great. This is what TV should be like for everyone.
In contrast, watched Enterprise also tonight and picture was better than before (better tuner ?) but not clear.

Guess I will be up late tonight :D

(for JETninja - Klipsch are sounding great, moved fronts to rear surround position and added bigger RB25's up front. Also got Yamaha 1400 7.1 amp so it is now better than the movie theatre as recently went to LOTR at IMAX)

I have to say that 480i through the 6200 wins hands-down!

During HD shows, I was surprised at how good the 480p commercials looked! UPN (Ch. 13), one of the worst channels for me, looked OK today for Star Trek. The 5200 was definitely blurry for 480i. To me, even 1080i looked better. I use a projector that expands the HD picture to 7-8 feet wide, so picture defects become more visible.

skfields01 - Thanks for the information about how to get the 6200. It definitely improved my HT experience!

Originally posted by ukaussi
HD installed today. 6200 box as hoped

WOW !!..........

I got some exposure to HD on a 55" rear proj TV a few weeks back and that looked great, but this is absolutely amazing (Sony VPL-HS20 HD front projector on a 100" screen)

Watched a couple of minutes (sorry, not much of a BB fan) of Laker game and Shaq was almost full size !! Just finished watching West Wing and picture also great. This is what TV should be like for everyone.
In contrast, watched Enterprise also tonight and picture was better than before (better tuner ?) but not clear.

Guess I will be up late tonight :D

(for JETninja - Klipsch are sounding great, moved fronts to rear surround position and added bigger RB25's up front. Also got Yamaha 1400 7.1 amp so it is now better than the movie theatre as recently went to LOTR at IMAX)


Ha Ha! Guess we all know what you'll be doing from now on! :D

Don't miss CSI..or ER if thats your flavor. Alias on Sundays is awesome. INHD shows all sorts of new and old movies and other cool stuff. (and lots of BB...we might make you a fan!) HBO & SHO are hit an miss....sometimes very good OAR movies. Waiting on Starz-HD so I can dump SHO. ESPN will have lots of Baseball soon...still a bit of a yawner even in HD, but at least you can spot the babes in the crowd! But when NFL time comes...it was made for HD!

When they enable the built in Cable Modem in the 6200....best pick up that XBOX. Lots of HD games w/5.1 sound and online too with the Cable Modem! You'll be fighting the kids! LOL!

Rich4av.... sure no problem. I am glad most people are getting the newer boxes. It shows COX that there is definetly a demand for HD out there. I think COX will only give out the newer boxes if asked for... a lot of people right now don't need the Firewire or DVI... so those people can stick with the older boxes.

My breakdown of HD channels on COX is this...

CBS: Great for CSI, Everybody Loves Ramond and most of the 8:00 stuff.
NBC: ER... (Friends & Apprentice are not widescreen)
ABC: Great for Saturday and Monday movies (Gladiator looked great)
FOX (KTTV): 24 (Not much else... although Star Wars PM looked great)
ESPN: Not a sports fan. Sorry. Plus it is not true HD.
INHD1: Great liitle station with Discovery-ish programs and some movies.
INHD2: Same as INHD1
Discovery HD: Everything general looks awesome. Gets you watching bug
mating shows... stuff you wouldn't look twice at.
HBO: It is HBO in High-Def. Most things look great. Although I was disappointed
that "Nightmare Before Christmas wasn't in widescreen.
Showtime: Doesn't seem to show anything buy older movies. I don't use this
station much at all.

Sorry that I didn't list sports, but I am only a part time fan (Superbowl, World
Series) and really only like boxing and HBO has that covered.

From what I have heard as of recent... we will be getting UPN, WB, Starz-HD and 1 PPV-HD set up sometime between the summer and end of this year.

I just hope that the Firewire and DVI activiation gets on soon. The target date for that, as I have heard, is between April and July... with Firewire first getting activated.

Well, here is the good and the bad. Cox delivered on the 6200 yesterday. The PQ on HD is superior! However the SD stations have an annoying flicker. The resolution and color is superior, but it appears that the improved resolution of the 6200 is revealing just how bad the transmission of SD from cox really is. I have some high end cables coming (Better Cables Silver Serpent), hopefully they will resolve the flicker on SD. If not I will ask cox for a different 6200. I am using the 480i option for SD. My Sony 60XBR800 allows the user (Service Menu Tweak) to customize a number of picture variables for 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i. I would love to use 480p for the SD channels, but the optimal setting for 480p (component cable) SD conflict with those for my DVD. When The DVI is activated this will not be an issue. Yes the service menu tweaks have different settings for 480p component and 480p DVI!

niesman

Hi people, just wanted you to know that I'm watching this thread, too. Thanks to all who are contributing.

I'll be getting my Sammy HLN507W DLP RPTV this weekend and am a CoxOC subscriber, too. I'll obviously want to upgrade to their HD service real soon. I appreciate all your posts and will let you know how my setup goes.

niesman, I would try different settings for Sony's scaler (I think it's called DRC). That could generate a flicker effect depending on how it is deinterlacing and scaling SD. Just a thought.

Rich4AV,

Thanks for the suggestion. That was the first thing that I tried with no effect. I also set the 4:3 setting on the 6200 to 480p and then 1080i, also with no effect (these settings turn off DRC on all Sony's when component or DVI is used). Anyway, Cox is coming out today to swap the box with another 6200. My guess is that on of the chips in the box is slightly out of sync with the others. I am involved in scientific instrument design and have seen a similar effect when resolving time of flight mass spectrometry data.

niesman

Rich4AV,

There is one other tweak in the service menu that I did not try. Presently I have eliminated all signal filtering in the Sony. This generally improves picture resolution. If the 6200 has some inherent ringing in its analogue conversion circuit then turning on the filtering for 480i may resolve the flickering issue. Thanks again for the advice.

niesman

The cox rep just left. He swapped out the old 6200 for a new one. All is well! The flicker is gone. He did say that he has seen this several times now. So, for those of you just getting your 6200, please take a close look at the SD channels before being overwhelmed by the HD. There is still far more SD than HD.

niesman

niesman, good to hear!! Now you can enjoy the great PQ.

Hey all. I just found out some disturbing news. I had a COX upper tech come out to fix a Digital box that was acting up. While he was hear, I asked some questions regarding the new 6200 box.

1. He said that a few of the boxes that they gave to customers had the Firewire and DVI already enabled, but that the guides did not work.

2. He told me that ALL the current 6200 boxes that have been given out will have to be swapped with a newer 6200 box... because COX cannot enable the Firewire/DVI with a software upgrade. He said that it is a hardware problem and that is why they need to swap them out.

If this is true... then all our hard work went for nothing. On the bright side... he said that the Firewire/DVI boxes will be ready in about 3 weeks. He also confirmed that UPN, WB and Starz-HD will be ready to go by summer.

Skfields01,

I am highly skeptical about anything the cox rep say. If you scan the other forms you will see that the 6200 box works quite well with the DVI Enabled. However this might explain why I am having trouble loading the guide. In my last post I said all was well. That was with regard to the PQ. It is fantastic! SD and HD are as I have expected. I asked the rep if the DVI and Fire-wire were activated in this box and he said no. He did say that there are employees with the DVI activated. Now I cant get the guide to load.

niesman

I spent 30+ minutes on the phone with them this morning trying to arrange to have my 5100 replaced with a 6200. I asked if I could bring the 5100 in for a swap and they said no, a technician would have to come out.
Then the rep said that they could promise that there would be any 6200 models on the truck if when the technician arrived.

Then I asked what the time frame was to be able to lease two HD cable boxes from Cox -- the answer was not until at least next year. I really want to get HD for my Sony Grand WEGA in my bedroom, but don't know if I want to pay $600+ for one (if I can even find one) that once they enable the Firewire port will only be able to record the channel I'm watching.

niesman,

So is your DVI enabled already?

Flip'

According to Ryland Madison the man in charge of HD for Cox, San Diego customers can have more than one stb. He has stated that initially the supplies were low and one per household was necessary. Things have changed and SD customers can have more than one. I posted on a San Diego Forum asking about OC customers and expect an answer soon. hdtv.forsandiego.com

Robert

I tested my DVI output and it is not enabled.

Skfields01,

negative DVI is not active. The guide problem was a result of my splitting the signal. Once I bypassed my splitter all was well. I wish these damn boxes had a passive pass through so we could split after the box.

niesman

Well, I guess time will tell if the info the tech gave me is right or not. He also did say that San Diego does get their equipment 6 months to 1 year before we do out here in OC.
He said that they already have the newest HD boxes that have the built-on PVR. He was unsure on whether they were able to record in HD though.

What I have heard about the 6200 series (6208 with standard internal drive and 6200/6208 with external firewire drives) is that while they record HD, they have limited PVR functionality. That is, they can record the show you are watching, but don't allow you to watch a previously recorded show while recording another. That supposedly comes with the next generation hardware.

I ordered the 6200 yesterday, tech will install on Monday. CSR claimed he new nothing of this model stb. I assured him they have them and are installing them. I'll fill you in on the results. If I split the cable to antenna A and the STB I will have problems???

Robert

robhair,

It depends, I had a three way spit (to box, ant, and vcr). with the 5100 no problems except poor SD. With 6200 drop outs on SD and no guide. When ALL splits removed the 6200 has excellent performance. The cox rep said that the preferred set up is no splits, however they are making single splits to ant and seeing just a few problems. Good luck!

niesman

Splitting

I asked Cox tech when he set up 6200 about splitting my signal so it could go to TiVo & 6200. He said it was OK as long as signal strength was above a certain level.
My signal comes into my media junction box (house in new and prewired for telepone, Cat5 and coax) and through a signal booster installed by original Cox tech. It is then split into 3, one of which goes to the bonus room outlet I use which is then split into 2 (splitter supplied by Cox tech) after the wall outlet. One goes to TiVo and one to the 6200. All seem to be working fine at this time.


Haven't tested DVI or firewire yet.....
What can firewire be used for on this unit if active ?

Sci-Fi Channel
Anyone heard any news as to if/when they will broadcast in HD and if/when Cox will pick it up ?
Except for fact that they have limited budget you would think they would be very on-the-ball with HD at Sci-Fi channel as Sci-Fi material is usually the first stuff to be filmed in HD (Children of Dune, Star Wars Episode II etc) or converted to HD and us "techies" would most likely be the largest % of their audience.

The firewire port, once enabled, lets you hook up an external hard drive (and in the case of a 6208, and additional drive) for limited PVR functionality. It won't be close to ReplyTV or TIVO functionality. It just lets you record the channel you are watching. I'm assuming it will be able to handle scheduled recordings so you don't actually have to be watching. It won't provide the ability to watch a previously recorded show while recording the current channel. You need to wait for the next generation for this functionality.

Got the 6200 this morning. Analog seems better-not great. Checked it against my Mits tuner and comes close. I had a three martini lunch so I'll know more another time. Got a reply from Honcho at the San Diego forum. It turns out his area of responsibility is only in San Diego. He referred me to Cox/OC website. Ha! that's a joke. He made it seem as though he was high up in the Cox org.. Turns out he's just a local yocal. Actually said to e-mail CSR for an answer, LOL.

Robert

ukaussi,

Thanks for your splitting set up. The previous owner of my home had installed a similar set up, but just like everything else this knuckle head installed, he did it the cheap way. My wife and I have sunk $$$$$ into fixing his mistakes, thankfully the addition of a pre amp is relatively inexpensive ( I don't even think of using the existing cat5, I set up wifi on my own.).

niesman

April 1 is coming soon. How many of you are thinking about getting a D-VHS VCR?

I would get one if I knew that the set top box would output HBO HD and Showtime HD unencrypted over 1394... I don't care too much about the other channels.

How do you check the version of firmware you have on the 6200 ?

Power off and within a second, hit the Select button. The firmware interface comes up.

Use your right arrow key to enter a section, and left arrow to return to the menu. When done, Power off and Power back on.

I believe the firmware level is in the code modules section (I don't have it in front of me right now, but you can check the different areas until you see the firmware level).

That was easy :D

Key part was "within 1 sec"


Firmware 5.04

Interesting to see the section that shows you which features are enabled.

Only USB was enabled

Ethernet, 1394, DVI were all disabled

Curious if anyone has seen there DVI port turned on? I was hoping that they would have had it activated by now, but maybe that is just wishful thinking. Well, I got tired of waiting for COX to get UPN and WB, so I tried to get VOOM, which has 35 or so stations in HD. The sad news was that my place faces the wrong direction, so I can't get it. I was a bit bummed on Saturday... although the VOOM tech said as COX HD goes, he though the picture quality was outstanding, as good as VOOM. Well, I guess I'll keep on waiting. Let me know if anyone has got the DVI to work because that will help the picture quality by a 100 fold.

I agree that DVI is important but not as much as firewire for me assuming that recording capabilities come with the enabling of firewire.

I have my HD Cable component going into my AV amp so I can use component switching. My Bravo DVD player has DVI and I would have to constantly switch cables if I used DVI from HD Cable as only one DVI input on projector.

After some thought, considering that a DVD source is 480p at best (even if the DVD player upconverts it) I think it would be better to switch the DVD player down to component when DVI is enable on the HD cable as the signal source on HD Cable is at LEAST 480p, but more often 720p.

With Firewire enabled and recording capabilities from the cable box menu (ie plug in a firewire hard drive and you get a HD DVR) this would be a much bigger plus for me as I could record shows that I can't watch.

DVI is not yet operational.

I doubt that we will be able to attach hard drives to the boxes any time soon, from other threads I read in the hardware forum.

We'll have to see if anything changes tomorrow.

ukaussi - worst case, AVS is still selling the JVC HD VCRs that record 1080i component in analog mode (Pro Logic audio only). They do look very good through the RGB output of the VCR.

well, I was atleast hoping...

ukaussi,
You can always get a DVI switcher box to have multiple DVI sources at once. I will have to do this also, as I am going to pick up either the Bravo D2/D3 or one of the new 1080i DVD players. I have the Samsung 931, and although it gets slight better color definition than a standard DVD player, I am much more impressed with the 2nd generation of newer ones coming out that were shown at CES.

In case anyone is interested in the status of DVI and 1394 support for the 6200 STB from Cox, I just got the following email from Cox:

Thank you for your e-mail. Cox is committed to providing the best
customer service possible.
-
The 6200 HD boxes that have the 1394 port activated became available
yesterday, 4/1. Your 6200 HD box will have to be swapped with one that
has been activated. To do this you must call Customer Care, you will be
transferred to a Lead person who will set this up for you.
-
The DVI port is targeted to become activated sometime during the 2nd
quarter of this year. Whether or not the box will have to be swapped out
again for this we have not been told yet.
-
If we can be of any additional service to you, please do not hesitate to
contact us again.
-
Sincerely, Phil
Tech Support - Video & Telephony
Cox Communications Online Support Team

Well it took two different transfers but the third time was the charm. Oh wait, only took two transfers. At no point did I get the run around or denials, just "Oh sure, that's another department that is handling that, let me transfer you". I ended up with a senior support something something and he took care of me, explained that some shows would have different levels of copy protection (copy once, no copy, and no copy restrictions). I would have to provide my own cable, but that was all, and they would call me back to schedule the appointment for the swapout.

As long as they call me back, color me suprised =)

Very exciting. I keep wanting to hate orange county cox because well, everybody hates their cable providers, but I just can't find a reason to yet.

Hey guys, I'm wondering if I have a 6200 problem...lately on the Analog channels I'm seeing a band of greenish tint at the top of the screen. I dont see it on the higher channels, or DVD or HD, so I don't think its the TV. Not seen any obvious cabling problems...so I'm thinking its the box, only had it for what, 2 months or less now?

Any ideas?

I just called Cox. They took down my information and told me they'd call me back. They said it would take 10-20 business days because they have to send the boxes to Atlanta to get the Firewire output enabled (?!)

I asked about charges. I was told that there could be a $31 charge at the discretion of the tech.

Cox just called me back and I have a 1394-enabled box installation scheduled for Saturday. Cox is being very responsive so far!

I need to decide on a recording solution...

So how would that work, Rich? I'm sure you can't just buy an empty FireWire drive and plug it in. Is FW the standard connection for HD-type DVD and D-VHS recorders?

FWIW, when I last inquired, the cox rep said that later this year, the STBs will have a PVR built-in. I don't know if he meant that the HDD will be internal. Does the MOTO STB have recording software in the firmware? I'll believe that when I'm using it. But things sure are mnoving in a good direction.

A separate hard drive will likely not work. I figure I'll need a D-VHS VCR.

Yes, a PVR would be the easiest solution. Cox San Diego is getting ready to deploy them in April, and OC is generally about 6 months behind SD.

Hey did everyone notice they moved SpeedTV to #318!!!! If your a race fan complain!!!! My boys and I watch hours of Speed almost everyday! They could watch it anytime on a regular cable ready TV in their room or the Kitchen Center. Now they cannot. I will not put a Digital box in they're room, too many movie channels and questionable content.

Racing and Cars are generally family oriented sports and programing. Now instead we get MTV2....oh boy...More Hip-Hop! :(

I'm emailing and calling...not happy!

So the tech shows up on Thursday and asks how he can help me. And I said by installing my 1394 capable cable box foo! At this point he just got a puzzled look at his face, which wasn't helped when I started banging my head into the wall.

After 15 minutes of calling his supervisor (who told him they don't support 1394) he finally found somebody that admited they do and that he should have picked up the "special" units from a pallet in the warehouse. Apparently it was on his workorder to do it, but he didn't see it. He was polite and apologetic, but still, it sucked not getting the box. So they rescheduled for saturday (tomorrow) but he can't guarentee he will be the tech assigned, so I could just get another guy who makes the same mistake. The only good news is that they where having a meeting on friday and he said he would be sure to bring the issue up.

Got my linux machine all configured and compiled, hoping they actually bring the right box tomorrow.

I got mine installed today. The tech shows up (a contractor) and has no idea what 1394 is. I called Cox Tech support and they said 1394-enabled boxes are not available. I called Sales and they knew what it was - they put in a call to the supervisor and told my tech that he needs to contact Dispatch.

While all this was going on, another tech (Cox employee) shows up with my box. For some reason, 2 trucks were dispatched. He had my box, and said I am one of the first to get installed. He said they only got 10 in the warehouse...

I am considering DVHS VCRs right now. I tried an LG3410A but it does not work.

Oh, one more surprise. DVI is enabled. On my projector, I compared component and DVI and did not see a huge improvement for DVI (I did not recalibrate for DVI, though, and it is much brighter than component). My pj does not have separate contrast/brightness adjustments for DVI.

Gendal - Cox has turned on 5C on these boxes. All premium channels are not coming through to an HTPC.

Originally posted by Rich4av
Gendal - Cox has turned on 5C on these boxes. All premium channels are not coming through to an HTPC.

Ug, that sucks if 5C is turned on. How do you have it working your htpc? Linux?Windows?Mac? Software?

A new Tech showed up today with the box in hand this time and I already have my linux box recognizing the 6200 properly as Node 2, but for some reason there is also a Node 1 with garbage for it's rom info and it's refusing to use node 2 to record, always switching to node 1. Gonna start going through the source here now and see if I can find what's up.

Edit: The Cox guy said DVI wasn't enabled but I thought it was part of the firewire firmware upgrade so I am not suprised at all that it works for you, that's awesome. For me it doesn't matter, since I just want to use a firewire connection to my htpc which uses dvi to the tv. Of course if 5C is enabled that shoots that in the foot =(

Gendal,

See this thread for more details http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=309877&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

I use WinXP with the 6200 connected to the motherboard's 1394 input. For software, I use CapDVHS along with the MEI drivers ("core drivers") linked in the thread. For playback, you can use MyHD or WinDVD5 or others linked in the thread.

Good luck. I tried an LG3410A and got "unsupported 1394 device" so it is going back to BB.

Tried out the winxp method with capvhs and I got it working in 15 minutes... but the only hd channel it would record was nbc. Got that in 1080i great but every other channel including abc, fox, cbs (which was running a lovely golf show), hbo, discovery, inhd 1&2, and showtime all gave me zilch. At this point I realized my linux box was probably working so I switched back to it with the cable box on nbc hi def and voila, worked.

So if it is 5C WTF are they encrypting EVERY hd channel but NBC? Is it on a per show basis and I was just lucky with something on NBC? I don't care about standard def channels, I have more than enough tivo's and mythtv boxes scattered around my house to take care of that. Very disappointed right now.

Any way to tell if it is 5C? I get a stream but nothing plays it back... usually use xine on linux and vlc on windows. Unless somebody cracks 5C or they relent on their draconian usage of it, I don't see a reason to keep paying my $130 cable bill a month.

CapDVHS is flaky and often will not properly record ABC and CBS. Do a quick capture on NBC - the stats should display. If they do, stop CapDVHs, change the channel and start recording again. Often, CapDVHS will record.

Or, start recording NBC (704) with CapDVHS and then change the channel to 707 or 702. It will play back OK.

I can record 702, 704, and 707 (but with some effort... ;)

Gendal,

This is how to tell if 5C is turned on a specific channel.

1. Tune that channel
2. Power off cable box and within 1 second hit "select"
3. Go down to D11 (using down arrow) and hit right-arrow

If it says '5C Implementation 1' then 5C is turned on. If it says '0', then it's off. It is off only on CBS, ABC, and NBC on mine.

Ahh, nice trick. I already have over the air hdtv recording on the linux box with pchdtv and mythtv, its now working fairly well. So that means all of the ones with out 5C are pretty useless to me. I really want to be able to time shift the premium channels with out tape. I don't care about archiving, I just want a flexible hdtv tivo =)

If I can't do this, I have to question the value of my whole cox setup. Sigh. Was so excited there for awhile, should have known it was to good to be true.

Has anyone out in Lake Forest, Mission Viejo area got one of the replacement 6200 boxes with the DVI enabled? Cox is still saying they won't have them for a while.

skfields,

Don't ask for a box with DVI enabled. Ask for one with IEEE 1394.

Very few Cox people know that the 1394 boxes even exist (Cox Tech Support had no clue when I called them), only Sales.

And I bet no one at Cox locally knows that DVI is enabled (which I can confirm).

Have you tried both the 1394 and DVI ports to make sure they work? If so, did you notice any improvement?

I don't have a 1394-capable display but was able to record ABC, CBS and NBC on a PC, showing that the firewire output has some functionality. PQ is generally better than OTA for me.

I did connect the DVI output to my pj and it worked. As posted elsewhere, the display was overly bright and requires recalibration of the output device.

My Mitsubishi WS-55813 has both DVI and Firewire. I am familiar with DVI, but am not real knowledgable with Firewire. Can I hook up the firewire to my TV and get a better picture than using Component? If so, is firewire better than DVI?

JETNinja,

I too was very upset when they changed the speed channel into the digital range as I TiVo'd a lot of stuff from SPEED and had my TiVo hooked up to just direct cable.

Consequently, I had to reset my TiVo and set it up with the 6200 via s-video (no component connection on TiVo :rolleyes: ) .
The only plus from this was that I can actually record the HD channels on the TiVo as the 6200 does give a signal through s-video on HD channels.
Now it may not be HD but the picture is 10x better than analog shows that are TiVo'd when recording shows on ABC, NBC etc which is very important when watching on projected screen.
I still try and watch them directly though as HD picture is phenominal at 110" :D

skfields,

Better than PQ is the fact that your Mits TV can then be connected to a Mits DVHS VCR and you can have very easy time-shifting!

I'm really not that interested in the DVHS machines. I'll hold out for the HD PVR and the upcoming HD DVD Recorders that should be out in the next year or so.

Same here....Just got my first DVD burner for my PC (8X +/-) and love it. May be Dual Layer formware out for it in a few months too.

ukaussi...Brenda relayed she's passing up tons of complaints to highers up! I also called it in. WIll do again this week too. It sucks!

ESPN & ESPN2 are darker than any other channels. Is any body experiment the same thing ?

Well, I was talking to a senior tech over at COX yesterday discussing whether I wanted them to upgrade my current 6200 box with a new one with the ports activated.

He was telling me a few intersting tidbits.

1. The FCC has a deadline of when both the Firewire and DVI need to be
available to the consumer. April was Firewire and September is DVI.
2. He was telling me that the Movie studios are going towards Firewire
because they can control the content more accuratly, but DVI is
more user friendly (with overlays and so forth).
3. He said the some of the boxes that people got that had both the
Firewire and DVI activated... the DVI will be turned of in the next
week or so when they get their new software online.
4. One last note. He said that come September, they will not have to
swap out any more boxes. They will send a software upgrade to the
box and it will activate both the Firewire and DVI ports. They are
just waiting for Motorola to finish it up.

There you go. I beleive what he is telling me... because he has told me things in the past and all of them have hapened. So I am going to hold off for a bit till the ports are activated by the new software upgrade.

From everything I have heard... you really don't see a difference between Component, Firewire and DVI... especially if you have a nice set of component cables. Plus in Firewire you don't get overlays and I need to see the guide to see what is on.

Originally posted by skfields01
From everything I have heard... you really don't see a difference between Component, Firewire and DVI... especially if you have a nice set of component cables. Plus in Firewire you don't get overlays and I need to see the guide to see what is on.

skfields01,

DVI can make substantial difference in PQ depending on your set and the the ability to tweak the settings for the the DVI port. If the DVI port is 100% digital and not a D to A to D DVI ( Some manufactures early DVI ports were not D to D, My Sony XBR800 DVI is D to A to D) there is less scaling involved which is always a better situation. Even in my situation there have been reports (see UMR does GWII) of improved PQ with the DVI port over component.

niesman

skfields01

Thanks for the info... I am less concerned about PQ between the different outputs since I have some very good component cables and I will eventually switch to DVI...

However, Firewire is very important to me and I am actually glad there are no overlays. Why? Because I want to record High-Def material to my computer for PVR type functionality. Everything is set up and ready to go but if you read above it seems some have been unable to record anything but NBC!

Question to the group here: Before I set everything up... Is it still true that Cox is blocking all content but NBC on the Fir

Sorry - my post was cut off...

A new set of questions to pose along with the one above. Let's say I set up my computer as a PVR using the Firewire output on the 6200. It sounds like I am able to record streams from EVERY HD channel but those premium channels will have 5C protection.

1. Is this true? Is the content from the premium channel being recorded?
2. Assuming this is true, I know I will not be able to view the 5C content on my PC but could I stream it back to the 6200 to play on the TV?

I am not interested in watching the captured HD stream on my PC. I only want to time shift the HD material and feed it back through the 6200 to my plasma.

I am trying to get my hands around this before I spend the time setting this up. Thanks for any info...

niesman

Thanks for the info. I wanted the DVI and wasn't so interested in the Firewire. I am pretty sure my Mitsubishi WS-55813 is completely adjustable in DVI. I think I am going to wait till COX sends out the update to activate the new ports, as opposed to, having them come out with an activated box. Plus they wanted to charge another $40.00 to swap. My component setup is using the highest Monster Cables ($200.00 #3) out there... so I am probably getting the best picture possible anyways.

Why would Cox bother to turn off DVI if it's working for some of us??

Also, any news on the HD PVR for OC?

The COX guy said that the DVI wasn't approved in some way or another and Motorola shouldn't have activated it in the first place. He said as soon as their new software was in place, that they will be forced to shut them off. Even if this does happen, it would be re-activated in a few months anyways.

He didn't mention anything about the PVR, but apparently some people in San Diego have them already.

Rich4av,

My guess is that Cox is turning off the DVI ports due to some compatibility issues with the firmware and COX's channel guide. If you visit the Motorola web page for the 6200 series you will see that the interactive channel guide is quite different from the one used by COX.

niesman

I still have a 5100 box, and was wondering if anyone has seen any improvement in the new boxes. I'm wondering about picture quality (especially on analog channels), speed in changing channels, etc. I want to know if its worth the effort or expense to have Cox switch out the box before I deal with it.

Any input is appreciated.

The box swap was free (except for our time).

Analog channels look a lot better with my projector with the 6200.

Any problem with the PQ when using S-connector on the 6200 ?

Originally posted by rdenichilo
I still have a 5100 box, and was wondering if anyone has seen any improvement in the new boxes. I'm wondering about picture quality (especially on analog channels), speed in changing channels, etc. I want to know if its worth the effort or expense to have Cox switch out the box before I deal with it.

Any input is appreciated.


The PQ on the 6200 Analog is better-not great- the tuner on my mits still is superior. No difference in speed of channel changing--think that's a digital problem. I can now stand watching analog through the 6200 instead of changing over to my mits tuner. \\Robert

PQ improved initially for me in the analog realm for the first few weeks I had the 6200...but the last month I keep getting a greenish band at the very top. Only happens in the analog channels. Cox told me they are aware of it and looking for a solution. Been 2 weeks since I last talked to them..this is getting old.

Originally posted by Rich4av
The box swap was free (except for our time).

Analog channels look a lot better with my projector with the 6200.

I need to correct myself. My Cox bill has a $31.50 charge for the swap...

Is the 6200 have the auto stretch feaure build-in for none HD channel ?

I got a JVC 30K for taping HD content, and it works fine with HBO, SHO. I sent it in for the required upgrade. After I got it back, the SD channels (digital premium channels, non-HD) would only display a tall picture and garbage in the right third of the picture. Has anyone seen this using 30Ks with Cox? I really want the ability to record SD channels with Dolby 5.1 audio too. I think the 30K was OK before the fix.

(Brian - please PM me as I lost your email address)

Other people have reported the same problem so it may be tied to Cox's broadcast (maybe not)...

I returned my 30K and ordered a 40K, hoping for better luck ;)

Do any of you get "jealous" that our friendly neighbors to the North (in Time Warner Country) already have a slew of HD channels, PVR, and OnDemand? In addition to InHDs, HD-NETs, locals, etc., they also receive FOX SPORTS WEST HD, and TNT-HD way before anyone else. With the Lakers/Wolves series coming up, I've written to COX ORANGE COUNTY quite a few times requesting various channels.. I cannot imagine that TWC has more bandwidth than Cox at this point. Anyway, thankfully I have E* as well, and will (rumoredly) receive the TNT-HD NBA W.C.F. telecasts that way...

I'd still love to see COX get FSW-HD, TNT-HD, CinemaxHD and StarzHD...

-T

Well, there ar eothers who have less ;)

I just got a new JVC 40K and the problem with SD channels having garbage in the rightmost third is gone!

I still experience dropouts on the 40K but I think that I will need to get used to it.

Well, there are others who have less ;)

I just got a new JVC 40K and the problem with premium SD movie channels having garbage in the rightmost third is gone!

I still experience dropouts on the 40K but I think that I will need to get used to it.

Interesting.. I've had the 30k ever since it came out (for about a year+ now) and I've never sent it in to get "the fix". I've never recorded from it, only played back various D-VHS tapes... I guess I either don't use it enough to have problems, or have yet to experience the problems since I don't record. I don't think I'll ever record using the 30k, I'm just waiting for the HD-PVR...

-T

Yes, but remember that when your HD fills up, your HD PVR will need you to wipe out some recorded movies. Until HD DVD Recorders come out, D-VHS is the only cheap archiving solution around...

Just an FYI. Got my 6200 box today. Analog channels are improved. Its a slight improvement but at least its an improvement. Digital channels seem better. They actually look great.

Also the tech said pvr's should be here in August, but don't hold your breath.

rdenichilo,

I have 6200 box last Saturday, both HD and none HD thru component input. The HD channels look good, but the none HD channels just OK.
What type of connector that you use ?

I happened to check the firmware version of my 6200 box last night and was surprised to see that it had been updated from 5.03 to 7.12. It looked like both the 1394 and DVI ports are supported now. I did not have the chance to try the DVI on my Sony GWIII yet. Did anyone try it with the new firmware version yet?

I am using component connection straight to tv with the cables Cox provided. Any recommendations on better cables?

There still is quite a bit of video noise and softness to the PQ on the analog channels. But digital channels look good. Not HD but they do look good.

Also, anyone considering DirectTV? I am debating switching to get the HD Tivo, but want to know how overall PQ is compared to Cox.

chiifac,

Please let me know how to check the firmware version. I don' t have the manual.

If I remember correctly, you check the firmware by hitting the select button within 2 seconds of turning the box off, and then going to option 8.

qpham,

First, power down the 6200 from the remote. Within a few seconds, hit the 'SELECT' button from the remote. This will bring up the status/debug screen. Use the up, down, right, and left arrow buttons to navigate. The firmware info is under item 8, Code Modules. You can also check your incoming signal strength (called S/N ratio) in item 3, Inband something.

After you are done, just hit the Power button again to exit .

Originally posted by chiifac
I happened to check the firmware version of my 6200 box last night and was surprised to see that it had been updated from 5.03 to 7.12. It looked like both the 1394 and DVI ports are supported now.

I guess those of us who requested a box early will be stuck with 7.10 until we request a new box?

Rich,

Are you still at 7.10? I thought everybody would be bumped up to 7.12 automatically. I did not even know when exactly did that happen to my 6200. I did try the DVI with my GWIII and it worked flawlessly. Unfortunately, I did not see any PQ improvement with DVI over component at 1080i.

I finally jumped on board with Cox and got my unit installed Saturday. However, the tech set up component outs to be 480p only. I thought the 'power off' and 'select' would allow me to change, but to no avail. any advice?

Also, I thought 5c was supposed to be turned off except for PPV?

bwiklem,

To go to the configuration screen, after powering off, you need to press the 'Menu' button instead of 'Select'.

Cox in OC start generate a interested list for the DVR, but not include HD channels.

chiifac - I am still on 7.10. My box was installed with instructions to never "cold initialize," i.e. no reloading of firmware. I'll have to call them when I need the new firmware. I actually want 7.14 sometime this summer because Motorola has fixed the problem with Mits DVHS VCRs working with the 6200.

Originally posted by qpham
Cox in OC start generate a interested list for the DVR, but not include HD channels.

Where? How?

Steve

Here is the link to COX in OC

http://www.cox.com/oc/

Then click on the ICON label Request DVR at the low right hand corner of this page.

Interestingly, the DVR does not work with HDTV. What a waste.

Anyone else getting audio/video dropouts during the Laker-Piston game 2 tonight? I had some last night during game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals, but it is worse tonight.

I just want to know if it is just my cable box or if it is an ABC/Cox problem.

Originally posted by rdenichilo
Interestingly, the DVR does not work with HDTV. What a waste.

Not to be a PITA, but where did you get that information?

Everything I've ever read indicates Motorolla's only available DVR (DCT6208) is a HD unit. So unless Motorolla just annouved that the now hae a SD DVR unit, which is certainly possible since I havn't been paying much attnetion.... I'd assume that Cox will be rolling out the same Motorolla 6208 that Comcast rolled out in thier Motorolla markets months ago.

I went to the source... or I just got of the phone with Cox OC...

and was told:
1) They plan to launch the DVR by Fall at the latest but it will likely be this summer
2) They will offer both HD and SD service, the person I spoke to confirmed the box would be a Moto 6208 for the HD service.

Yeah... now I just have to wait another 2 months....

From the Cox website https://www.cox.com/oc/dvr/about.asp#I_am_a_Cox_HDTV_customer:

9. I am a Cox HDTV customer. Is your new DVR product compatible with my existing HDTV service?

Customers with Cox HD service can keep their service on one television set, while enjoying DVR on another set in the house.

The technology is being developed to eventually allow customers to enjoy DVR and HD service on the same television set.

At this time, the two services require separate set top boxes because of their advanced and unique architecture.

Originally posted by Sydor25
Anyone else getting audio/video dropouts during the Laker-Piston game 2 tonight? I had some last night during game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals, but it is worse tonight.

I just want to know if it is just my cable box or if it is an ABC/Cox problem.

This was a KABC issue. OTA and other cable systems had the problems.

OTA San Diego also had the problem
Robert

It has been a while since I have asked... have they activated the DVI in the new HD boxes yet?

Originally posted by skfields01
It has been a while since I have asked... have they activated the DVI in the new HD boxes yet?

I got a response yesterday from Cox OC to my questions, first they apologized for giving me conflicting information and indicated nothing they told me was "official" yet. They like to keep thier support people in the dark until all the details are final to avoid leaking incorrect information... but they shared what they knew or suspected anyway...

Here are paraphrased answers:

1) DVI - Not yet, very liekly by the end of the year

2) DVR when - Targeting September 2004

3) DVR Box - Very likely the Moto 6208 which is HD since Moto does not have any other DVR product available anywhere.

4) Firewire / IEEE 1394 - Quoting (without permission) from thier email:

We currently support the 1394 Firewire feature but we only have one box
that supports this, it is the Motorola 6200HD which is a High Definition
box. You must have an HDTV set to use this and this must be ordered
through a supervisor. You must supply your own 1394 cable.
-
Customers who call in and request this may require a special converter
and the process may take up to 30 days to complete. Customers are
advised that they will receive a call back in 10 business days after
they request it.
-
1394 Limitations:
The 1394 port is not 2 way capable at this time.
Not all Cox systems will have the Cox Interactive Program Guide (IPG)
available at first.
There will be NO graphic overlay such as a volume bar or IPG.
PPV can only be ordered through the web site or from a Customer Service
Rep.
Entertainment-on-Demand (EOD) is not available.
Closed Captioning may not be viewed on some HD channels.
1394 is not compatible with equipment that does not have the Copy
Protection (5C or HDCP).
If a customer cannot view a program, they cannot record it. This is due
to copy protection.
No analog channels will be available through this connection.

Originally posted by skfields01
It has been a while since I have asked... have they activated the DVI in the new HD boxes yet?
My 6200 box is at firmware version 7.12 now and both DVI and 1394 are supported. It was updated automatically about a few weeks ago.

chiifac,

Have you actually hooked-up the DVI and get it to work? Does the DVI port have a picture and on-screen guide?

skfields01,

Yes, the DVI port from my 6200 worked flawlessly with my Sony GWIII. But for my TV, the PQ at 1080i is about the same between component and DVI and you do get the on-screen guide.

Originally posted by chiifac
skfields01,

But for my TV, the PQ at 1080i is about the same between component

skfields01,

Thanks for the information.

I was wondering if you have applied any tweaks to the component input vs. the DVI input. Remember that the Sony will discriminate between the two, the settings for 1080i component and 1080i DVI are different! See UMR does GWIII and XBR. This may account for the lack of difference between the two inputs.

niesman

You can now sign up to get more information on the HD-DVR scheduled for September.

See http://www.cox.com/oc/DVR/

I just checked my Firmware. It reads 7.12. Does this mean that my DVI and Firewire have been enabled? If so... I am off to buy some new cords.
When using DVI... are you still able to use the menu/online guide?
I know that with Firewire you cannot though.

In spite of receiving information to the contrary from Cox, I hooked up DVI last night and it's working!

Guess it's time to start seriously considering a DVI swtich...

Originally posted by skfields01
...When using DVI... are you still able to use the menu/online guide?

Yes via DVI everything (menu/guides) look exactly the same as when it was hooked up via HD component.

I have occasionally expereinced the "NO Signal" bug when switching between inputs. This bug between my Samsung HLN and my Moto 6100 has been discussed elsewhere. The reasoning is something about it losing the HDCP handshake. Clicking the cable box off/on instantly fixes the problem and it does not happen all the time.

Is it even worth it to go out and spend $100.00 on a nice set of DVI cables for this? I mean... do you get a better picture hooking it up through DVI as opposed through Component? Currently Component looks great in HD, but SD is another matter altogether. The bottom line... going through DVI, will SD look significantly better with DVI than with Component?
Any thoughts or personal reviews would be greatly appreciated!

Originally posted by skfields01
Is it even worth it to go out and spend $100.00 on a nice set of DVI cables for this?

First don't spend $100 on a "nice" (err.. over priced) set of DVI cables. You should only be spending $20-50 depending on length.

This is the age old "it's a DIGITAL cable" debate, it either works or it doesn't.

Second, yes I think DVI makes a substantial difference in HD picture quality over component. It's makes "some" difference in SD picture quality.

My Samsung HD931 Up-converting DVD player had been hooked up via DVI to my Samsung HLN567 and I swapped it over to Component (720p) to allow me to hook the Moto 6100 STB box up instead and was AMAZED by the degradation in picture quality. I figured the DVD itself was really on 480p and was getting up-converted so it wouldn't make that big of a difference but boy did it.

I'm now debating on buying a 4x1 Gefen DVI switcher or to hold out a year for receivers with DVI switching to come out... FWIW, I realized I'd need 4x1 not just a 2x1 when I started thinking about the potential in the near future to want to hook up a DVR and/or HTPC in addition to the STB and DVD player.

Well, I'll pick up a DVI cable. Worst case scenario... is that If I can't see a quality increase in the cable picture, I can use the DVI cable for one of the upcoming 1080i DVD players that are hitting the stores by Christmas. I had the Samsung HD931 for a while, but returned it because I thought the pic was a bit on the grainy side for my taste... atleast on my Mitsubishi Diamond WS-55813.

Digital Connection's store on Beach Blvd in Huntington Beach has reasonably priced DVI cables (Open weekdays). You can also order online.

Is it just me or has Cox increased the amount of compression they are using for the HD channels, specifically HBO and SHO? In the past few weeks I have noticed a sharp increase in the number of compression artifacts on movie material for these two stations. Movies on INHD and Discovery have not exhibited this problem ( No it is not my TV!, far too many times artifacts are blamed on the TV when it is the material being broadcast.) I have read of similar problems on the comcast/moto 6200 thread. Any thoughts or observations?

niesman

I was thinking the same thing tonight. On Charlie's Angels, I saw many more instances of macro-blocking than I can remember on HBO HD. It looked pretty bad at times.

I was watching the same movie last night! So it is not just me. Also, I am watching the hated Red Sox game on INHD and on close inspection there are some slight artifact effects. This does not bode well for future viewing as Cox expands its HD programming. They are obviously running out of bandwidth. Time to dump so analog garbage. However given the choice, I would prefer fewer channels with less compression over more HD channels with poor PQ. I would love to switch to Zoom but my marriage is more valuable than the endless debate with my wife on "why are we doing this?"

Does anyone with COX care to anonymously contribute to this discussion with some "off the record information"?


niesman

Originally posted by niesman
...Does anyone with COX care to anonymously contribute to this discussion with some "off the record information"?


Try calling or emailing Cox Orange County, frankly better to email as it'll get forwarded to someone that can actually answer your techinical question.

I've been AMAZED at the info they've given me in the past... it just took asking them the question.

Is everyone on firmware 7.12?

I called Cox and asked them to cold-initialize my box. The second tech I called did it, but it's still 7.10. I wonder if my box is "locked" internally as I got one of the first boxes in OC. The second Tech said that they sometimes roll out firmware by streets, and distant neighbors could have different firmware levels (a bit hard to believe). I will wait to see what happens. I am in Laguna Beach. Firmware 7.10 has a handshake problem - when I turn on my projector, I get errors on DVI and component outputs and need to unplug the 6200 to get rid of the display.

Is anyone having problem with ESPN HD in the last two days? I have broken pricture between 6PM and 10PM.

EspnHD has been a little blocky over the last couple of days. It seems to come and go. Not real impressed with PQ of fox tonight.

Robert

If you haven't noticed, the interest list for PVR now mentions HD-PVR.....

www.cox.com/oc/dvr/form.asp

Yes, I've noticed problems with ESPN - HD also during the past few days (last night included).

Looks like 7.15 was pushed last night. Saw both boxes run a load in the we morning, looked at the 6200 when I got up and it's now 7.15.

Not watched much HD over the last week (mostly been watching OLN..Its TOUR time!!) but there seems to be the occaisional pause on most any channel a few times an hour. Seems to be lessening as of late though.

Last night, ESPDN HD continue break up, ABC also look bad compare to OTA
from my Samsung T351.

Originally posted by JETninja
Looks like 7.15 was pushed last night. Saw both boxes run a load in the we morning, looked at the 6200 when I got up and it's now 7.15.

Not watched much HD over the last week (mostly been watching OLN..Its TOUR time!!) but there seems to be the occaisional pause on most any channel a few times an hour. Seems to be lessening as of late though.

TDF locks up and pauses frequently due to all the helocopter and motorcycle mounted cameras. That's been true every year.

I haven't "noticed" it on other channels, but then I don't have time to watch other channels while the tour is on :)

I am now up on 7.15 as well... About time...

Originally posted by Rich4av
I am now up on 7.15 as well... About time...

Has the handshake issue been resolved? I recently returned my DVI enabled 6200 for one without the DVI. The first was one of the early versions (like yours rich) and the SD channels started "pulsing", even when I used the component outputs. I could not stand it. I have been waiting for the handshake issue to be resolved before getting a new DVI 6200.

niesman

niesman,

I did not see that dreaded error tonight... It looks like it is fixed. I can only try once a day when I turn on my projector with DVI HDCP.

niesman,

so far, I have not seen that handshake error. 7.15 seems OK.

Anyone know yet whether they are allowing more than one HD cable box per household as I thought they were and went out and bought a 2nd HD TV so need to know ASAP

Thanks Guys

ukaussi,

I had asked that question a few months ago and was told only 1 box per home. I was told I could buy another box (5100) sold at Genesis and a few other stores shown on the Cox web site...

Originally posted by ukaussi
Anyone know yet whether they are allowing more than one HD cable box per household as I thought they were and went out and bought a 2nd HD TV so need to know ASAP

Thanks Guys


Cox called back later in the day and gave the OK for a 2nd box. They will be installing it Thursday.
FYI, I got the Zenith 44" HD rear proj - E44W46LCD - as it fits the media center space with an inch to spare on all sides !!

Originally posted by ukaussi
Cox called back later in the day and gave the OK for a 2nd box. They will be installing it Thursday.
FYI, I got the Zenith 44" HD rear proj - E44W46LCD - as it fits the media center space with an inch to spare on all sides !!


Here is some light entertainment:-

So they installed the 2nd box. I got home that evening (5pm) and channels 711 - 716 where unavailable on BOTH boxes. Called Cox be they couldn't figure it out and no appt's available so would need to call back :mad:
Later that night they miraculously became available.

Then on Saturday I noticed my original HD box was not showing the time. Further investigation found 711-716 missing again and no ability to get to "Guide". Called Cox and this person explained that they had removed my old SD box from my account AND my original HD box !! AFter 2 hours of trying to resend firmware etc they gave up and I have to wait until Wednesday of NEXT week for them to come out (this was on Sat - so 11 days wait)

To add "insult to injury", my cable internet also went down some time between Thursday and Saturday (not related as 2 feeds into the house) and they won't be out until this Friday.

Anyway, HD picture looks great on the new bedroom TV. Just need to buy a learning remote (like I have in media room from my Yamaha AV amp) so I don't have to have 3 remotes on the bed (TV, TiVo, Cable) :rolleyes:

Originally posted by qpham
Last night, ESPDN HD continue break up, ABC also look bad compare to OTA
from my Samsung T351.

I have been having touble with ESPN "breaking up-blocking". Last night I noticed that when I switch from ESPN to another HD channel and then back to ESPN that problem goes away. That would seem to me some glitch in the box not from the source. M2c.


Robert

Switching from ESPNHD to another HD channel and then back to ESPNHD sometime the problem goes away, but sometime it doesn't. The "breaking up-blocking" still happens every night.

ukaussi,

I guess you are on the bleeding edge with two (2) HD boxes! ;)

I have an SD box and an HD box. When they installed my HD box, my SD box went dead. Called them and found out that they thought they had replaced my SD box. They were able to re-enable online. Cox people have a hard time with people with multiple boxes, I think.

I'll monitor your progress as I am thinking about a second HDTV/monitor later this year.

just got back from best buy and they have a promo going on right now if you purchase a hdtv, you will get free hdtv service for a year from cox(excluding hbo/showtime). just waiting for a 10% off coupon so i can get a 26" samsung. from what i understand, hdtv box rental is $9.95 and espn/discovery is $$4.95? how have you liked cox high def service so far? thanks!

Cox HD service has been pretty good. While I like to watch CSI in HD, I find that I watch HBO and Showtime more often than the networks. InHD is also very good, with reference picture quality. All in all, I think we have a pretty good channel lineup here in Orange County.

thanks rich. so if i understand correctly, it would be $9.95 for the box rental, $4.95 for espn/discovery?

dvx24p....

I hope you mean something bigger then 26" for HD! You really don't get the impact until you get to the 47" and up range. Then it's almost 3D at times and the detail is beyond words......It's well worth the $ to get up there. And even the low cost Projection Set's are unreal when tuned..they actually have the most pixels, detail, and black level.


When I first got my HD box, I had them move the SD box to the bedroom. No problems till recently, the SD box on certain digital channels gets constant break-ups. It's real nasty and unusable for those channels. Others its fine. Before I call Cox, I want to replace my Cable Amp in the Attic. The original was from the previous owner more then 10 years ago(and is most likely a Radio Shack unit), I bought a real HQ unit last month from Ebay(that I read about here in the HD forum), just need a cool day to get up there and install. Then I'll know I have max signal throughput. (have right now 1 HDTV, 1 Dig SDTV, and 2 SD TV's all pulling signal)

This is the Amp I got (a EDA-4G Electroline):

http://stores.*********/Electroline-Cable-TV-Amps

******* = e b a y . c o m Stupid board...........

dvx24p,

You are correct unless the installation fee is not waived.

By the way, if you do sign up, consider getting HBO as well. I watch HBO HD a lot for movies (although the selection is limited and there are a lot of repeats).

I use both a projector for an 8-ft wide screen, and a 34" 16:9 HDTV. Even on the 34" HDTV, I can see the added resolution.

You can see the resolution, but it's no replacement for say going to the movies. With my 55" and my better then any theater sound system...we actually bypass 95% of the new movies...we just see some cause we don't want to wait for Cable/DVD release!

We have HBO and Showtime. Waiting for Cox to get on the ball and give us StarzHD....I'll lose Sho then. And where is HDNET! Wakeup COX!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I would like Stars HD too, although there are a lot of complaints about its selection of movies on other threads. I'd love to see The Two Towers in HD!

Showtime is OK. I figure that if I can record one movie a month on an HD channel, it pays for itself (with multi-screens, apremium channel is under $7/mo.)

Rich, what are you using to record stuff off Showtime? An HD VCR or some HD PVR? I never get to catch most HD content because I still don't have a timeshifting method. Which means I usually end up catching everything on my TiVo =(

I use a JVC 40K mainly.

Edit: Right now, eCost is offering refurb 40Ks for $359 including shipping. Not a bad deal. They have some issues but most people find them to work fine. See the HDTV Recorders forum for more information.

Any rumor that COX will add more HD channels in the near future?

Originally posted by qpham
Any rumor that COX will add more HD channels in the near future?

Ask them. I've always found them very responsive :)

Along those lines, I'd note that they've already added Bravo HD in some markets.

I'd love to see Starz HD added, and I've been asking them why/when they might add some HD Pay-per-view options.

If you want an idea of all the HD options out there check out Voom's line-up. They carry virtually everything available in HD.

Finally, I thought HDnet was exclusively DirecTv's? is there any cable network carrying it?

Time Warner Cable (OC/LA markets) have both HD-NETs.

They've got a pretty nice HD offering. They also already have Entertainment on Demand for various channels and pay channels.
Oh, and they have Fox Sports West HD.
-T

Mark Cuban will sell HDNet sevices to any HD carrier....Cox is just slow!!!! :mad:

Finally had my appointment the other day and they replaced the HD box.

Both now working great.

FWIW, I watch CSI on DVD and on CBSHD and you can REALLY see how much better it is in HD.

I also agree that bigger screens give you a better realization of the quality of HD. The new TV is 44" but it isn't as breathtaking as watching Discovery HD or InHD on the 110" screen from the projector.

Also, IMHO, if you have a good setup like mine with nice speakers, pictures and an big enough room (mine is 15x19) then the HD experience is better than the theatre as sounds are more directional and fuller.

Anyway, roll on TiVo HD for us cable people ;)

Cox customers in San Diego report that Cox has unscrambled HDTV as of Aug. 1st. I hope the same happens here! I can't check to see, I'm having a cabinet built for my Mits 65 and everything is down at the moment. Anyone out there with a qam TV?

robert

Just QAM is unscrambled? Probably not firewire too?

I presume everyone is busy watching the olympics in HD?

Sure looks great!

Originally posted by Gendal
Rich, what are you using to record stuff off Showtime? An HD VCR or some HD PVR? I never get to catch most HD content because I still don't have a timeshifting method. Which means I usually end up catching everything on my TiVo =(

At least Cox OC is starting to install the Motorola 4312 HD PVR this week at $4.95 extra per month. It will only support one tuner till a firmware upgrade is available and downloaded sometime this fall.

Really? I was on the supposed "waiting list" and still have not gotten a call, email, or otherwise. Are you getting the PVR this week?

-T

I am interested in the 6412 but need the 1394 output so that I can archive movies to D-VHS...

I am quite sure that the 6412 has a firewwire output but I do not know if Cox has it enabled. In order to meet FCC rules it should be enabled.

Cox called me yesterday and scheduled my install for Saturday. I believe I was very near to the beginning of the list. I got the impression that they had jsut started calling people.

Originally posted by walford
I am quite sure that the 6412 has a firewwire output but I do not know if Cox has it enabled. In order to meet FCC rules it should be enabled.

Cox called me yesterday and scheduled my install for Saturday. I believe I was very near to the beginning of the list. I got the impression that they had jsut started calling people.

I've been struggling to decide what to do when this day came: Do I keep my TiVo and get a Moto STB DVR just so that I can record HD? or do I choose one and dump the other... Argh.... that agony... Perhaps I'll just keep both for a couple months. It's made more difficult by the possibilities with TiVo ToGo and HMO...

This would be a easier decision if the Moto STB DVR was indeed dual tuner. Of course what would make my decision REALLY easy would be for TiVo to come out with a QAM dual tuning OpenCable HD STB DVR... why can't I have what I want! why... why... why...

Based on other forums at this site I believe the dual tuner PVR upgrade will be no later than October.
If Tivo came out with what you desire it would only get the HD channels that are also available over the air not the Cable only HD channels.

I just called Cox about the availability of the HD PVR. The rep said that they are now installing them but that they are going through the waiting list in order before taking any other requests.

Since I am already on the waiting/interest list, he said they will contact me when they reach my name. He could not tell my place in line, but thought that if I hadn't heard from them within the next two weeks I should check back.

He confirmed that it is $4.95 and did not know whether the Firewire &/or DVI outputs are active.

I'll probably keep the existing Tivo live, it's extra $, but the Tivo interface just rocks plus I'll finally be able to timeshift HD and will be able to record two concurrent shows(at least one of them in SD).

Cheers,
Ray

So is it confirmed that the Motorola 6412 is the HD PVR box they are rolling out for OC? None of the reps I talk to ever give me an answer to this simple question.

The reps really do not know very much. I had the fact that it was the 6412 confirmed last week by a support rep who took a day to find out. I currently have the DVI activated and working on my 6200 from Cox so I can not imagine that it would not be activated on a newer system. After it is installed I will post what I have learned about it.

I just got off the phone with Mishelle from tech support. She confirms it is indeed the 6412 and that the dual-tuner mode is not yet enabled in software. She said initial customers will receive the box with single-tuner support and that a later software update will enable dual-tuner mode (and likely some other features/ports). She couldn't confirm if DVI port was enabled or not - I really need that since I am using it now with my 6200 and my TV component inputs are already in use for DVD player connection. She also said the number of boxes they are getting is very limited and that there hasn't been much training for the installers on the 6400 series, so I imagine rollout will be extremely slow. When I said I don't need an installer - just ship me the box and I'll ship my 6200 back in return - she laughed and said that would never happen. After all, they need to earn their installation fee I suppose.

Is there an installation fee?

Also, is the $4.95 on top of the $9.95 we pay for the 6200? Otherwise, it does not make any sense...

Originally posted by Rich4av
Is there an installation fee?

Also, is the $4.95 on top of the $9.95 we pay for the 6200? Otherwise, it does not make any sense... From my understanding: Installation fee - yes. Monthly will be $4.95 more than you are currently paying.

Thanks for the update. It is interesting that San Diego Cox is using the SA box and we have the Moto one...

Anyone who has already received and using the 6412 care to give their summary of the PVR features? I know cox.com/oc lists features about the PVR, but that is intended for people that never used a PVR before and describes only the most basic features a PVR provides.

I know features are nowhere near as good as ReplayTV or even Tivo, but are basic things such as show padding possible (for example extending a scheduled recording beyond it's alloted time - essential for sports recordings)?

Another basic feature is navigating around a show. Other than rew, ff, instant replay are there any other ways to jump ahead a given number of seconds or minutes into a show. If you stop watching a show and want to resume again later do you have to start from the beginning?

Based on the crappy Cox 6200 software I don't hold much hope for the 6412 software and especially the PVR portion of it, but just want to know ahead of time what I'm in for.
Thanks.

I'm scheduled for installation on Wednesday afternoon. It's $4.95 on top of what you're already paying, as well as an installation fee of $31.95. I'll let you know how it goes next week. Anyone else who's already gotten it yet? Hopefully I'll get it working in time to record some of the Olympics...

-T

ok, cox just called me about the PVR (ironically enough I was reading this thread when they called). $31 installation fee, and 4.95 a month.

Now get this. I asked what box would be installed and was told that I already have the box and they would just be adding a hard drive to the box I already have. When I told them I understood they were using the 6412, and that I only have the 6200 and was not aware they could add that feature to the 6200, she told me I was wrong, and that there would not be a new box.

She did also state would be dual tuner in September, but based on the other information don't consider this rep a reliable source.

They need to get their story straight, then :) . The lady I spoke with (Mary Anne) told me they would be swapping the new HD-DVR box with my current HD Receiver. I wonder who it was you spoke with rdenichilo, hopefully not the same sales/support lady!

-T

I wish I had gotten her name. I may try calling Cox and asking for an HD tech supervisor. Anybody have a name/number?

Originally posted by neyugnt
I'm scheduled for installation on Wednesday afternoon.
-T When did you sign up for HD PVR service interest list? Was it months ago or more recent? Just curious as to where I am in the queue given I signed up only about 2 weeks ago.

I signed up shortly after qpham's post a few pages back in this thread. I believe he posted about the DVR in the beginning of June, so I'd guess 6/1 - 6/8 or thereabouts. Funny thing is reading back on those posts a few months ago, it seemed Cox was initially going to just come out with a DVR (no HD capability) but with word in the last few posts that it's the updated Motorola dual-tuner HD version, suffice it to say I'm pretty excited. Hopefully it is the 6412, and hopefully you'll get your call soon!

-T

Definitely the 6412. Here's a very complete e-mail response I got from Cox yesterday:

The supply of these boxes is very limited at this point.
Motorola is trying to provide a limited supply to all of the cable
operators, nationally and internationally, that use their Digital
system, so it may take a while to get a DVR to everyone on this list. We
are being rationed.
-
Here is a list of things that we know right now. Things that you should
know. The box we will be using is the Motorola HD-DVR DCT6412.
-
1. The Orange County DVR is a dual tuner box but with single tuner
software. Dual tuner software is expected late in the third quarter or
sometime during the fourth quarter of this year.
-
2. At this time you cannot record one program and watch a different
"LIVE" program at the same time. You "CAN" record a program and watch a
different recording at the same time.
-
3. This HD DVR contains a brand new IPG (Interactive Program Guide) and
is only available on this box.
-
4. PIP will not be available until the dual tuner software is available.
-
5. Customers who want the DVR without the High Definition will use the
HD DVR box with the HD disabled.
-
6. The DVI port and the 1394 Firewire Port ARE active for this box. No
HDMI.
-
7. The Component output ( red, green, blue YPbPr connections) is the
main output. There are no RF outputs on this box.
-
8. The audio outputs are the red and white RCA stereo jacks, Digital
Audio Out (SPDIF), and Optical.
-
9. There is a new remote for this box.
-
10. There is only a 30 minute buffer.
-
11. Can record approximately 12 to 20 hours of "all" HD recordings,
approximately 50 to 60 hours of "all" Standard Definition analog
recordings, and approximately 90 hours of "all" Standard Digital
recordings on a 120 Gigabyte hard drive.
-
12. Only 1 box per home.
-
13. Entertainment-on-Demand (EOD) will not be available on this box.
-
To find out more details about the Motorola HD-DVR DCT6412 box, click on
this link: http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6412.asp
-
-
Known Issues;
-
1. Analog channel picture quality is poor.
-
2. There are picture freezing and "Not Authorized" channel issues that
can usually be fixed by channeling off and then back on. Dual tuner
software Is supposed to remedy these issues. ESPN-HD, Discovery HD, and
Music Choice are some of the channels this will occur on.
-
3. Sometimes while listening to a Music Choice channel the music will
begin to repeat every 8 seconds. Channeling off then channeling back on
will fix this.
-
4. While FM channels are not supported at this time, they may work most
of the time.
-
5. The IR signal of the new remote is not as powerful as previous
remotes.
-
6. The button labeled "Video Source" on the new remote does not change
inputs on the TV like the other remotes that have a button labeled
"Input".
-
7. The "Free Recording Space" indicator does not take into account
whether or not the recording is a High Definition, Standard Definition,
or Digital program.
-
8. There is no "VCR Archive" feature in the initial release and no ETA
for one yet.
-
9. The ability to rewind 1 frame at a time is not supported.
-
10. Programming reminder timers are not supported with this IPG
(Interactive Program Guide).
-
When you get one of these DVR's, keep this list handy so that if you are
experiencing a problem, you can refer to it to see if the problem is on
this list. If it is not, then call tech support.
-
The cost is $9.95 per month for the box rental and $4.95 per month for
the DVR service. This box would replace one of your existing Digital
boxes (if you have one). Since the rental for a regular Digital box is
$3.75 per month, technically you would only be paying $6.20 more for the
box rental.

Steve, thanks very much for all the good info!

One thing I didn't see mentioned is what Interactive Program Guide (IPG) is Cox using. According to Motorola site info on 6412, the IPG is one of:
1. Microsoft TV
2. TV Guide
3. Pioneer Passport-echo

Can you fill us in on this detail?
Thanks!

Wish I could clear up the guide question, but I exhausted my knowledge on the Cox PVR when I cut-and-pasted that note. Now I wait for my installation call... ;)

Cox called me as well but the rep was more than willing to just ship the new box out when I complained about paying the install fee. He asked me to just bring my old HD box back to the office and told me that I would receive the box and remote via UPS or Fedex next Tuesday.

I am not going to fret about waiting for this box to come out. As usual the early roll outs from Cox are full of software/firmware bugs and show stoppers. Those of us that are married need to have "zero issues" or face the non-ending reminders of what a waste of money HD is. My 5100 box still has superior SD to the returned 6200 box with dvi that had horrible SD. MY wife really wants tivo like capabilities, but freezing pictures, skipping sound, and even worse SD will make my life hell.

niesman

This mornings install took a little over an hour.
The Cox OC unit uses the Pioneer firmware and guide. which is very similiar to the guide that was on my 6200.
The firmware level is 8.03
The DVI output worked fine and I compared it with the component output on my DLP system and prefer the DVI by a slight margin. This is the same experience I had with my 6200.
The remote control functions are similiar to, but not identical, to the ones on the 6200.
I did not find any noticable difference watching an analog channel between using the 6412 and connecting the cable direct to my TV. It is no better or worse and I do not consider it poor.
It was the second install for my Cox installer, his first was yesterday.
And yes it certainly was a brand new box, the Cox person who is telling people that they are adding a drive to an existing box is totally incorrect.

Thanks for the update, walford. Did you give up your 6200? I am debating whether to keep it until dual-tuner capabilities are enabled.

Yes the leased 6412 was a replacement for the leased 6200 and I certainly have no need to lease both of them at the same time since the 6412 is a superset of the 6200. For what reason are you thinking of keeping the 6200?

I may keep the 6200 for its 1394 output that works with my Mits and JVC D-VHS VCRs. Once it's confirmed that the 6412 is just as good, I may return the 6200.

The I/O settings on my 6412 show the 1394 interface as activated and I have no reason to think it would not work the same as the one on the 6200 since by law they have to provide a working 1394 interface. However, the proof is in the pudding. You may want to try the 1394 interface on the 6412 when it is installed while the installer is still there and if it works then let the installer take it back with him.

Originally posted by niesman
I am not going to fret about waiting for this box to come out. As usual the early roll outs from Cox are full of software/firmware bugs and show stoppers. Those of us that are married need to have "zero issues" or face the non-ending reminders of what a waste of money HD is.......

niesman

Cox also called me on Friday but I just got my 2nd 6200 fixed after the screwup so going to pass.
I tend to watch any HD shows live at the moment but will need a HD-DVR when Cox gets around to increasing the line-up :rolleyes:

I also just bought the outgoing Toshiba SD-H400 DVD/TiVo combo unit (not HD) which is on sale at BB for $199 (was $499) less $100 TiVo rebate, which means I get an 80GB Tivo for $99 !!
I bought it because it was a "no-brainer" (80GB Tivo + DVD for price of 40GB std TiVo) at $99 after rebate, and it uses component out to hugely simplified my bedroom setup (wife was very pleased) even though picture quality won't necessarily improve (TiVo connected to 6200 via s-video)

Originally posted by JETninja
Are you using another source for TV signals? I'm pretty sure the Component output of the 5100 only outputs the HD content, I could be wrong. I wasn't aware of any TV's being able to handle all sources in one input. Isn't the DTV part of the 5100's output going to come from the other Outputs? (Composite, S-Video)

The component output of the Motorola, 5100, 6200 and 6412 handle all video outputs and the Samsung TVs handle of the inputs via component.
You tell the Motorola box how what resolution to pass HD signals in and separatly what resolution to pass 4:3 SD signals in
The DVI output of the 6200 and 6412 also handle all video outputs and the TV also accepts all of them.

walford,

Do you see the "unauthorized channel" errors reported in the Cox email?

Also, do you see any increases in audio dropouts over the older 6200? I would hear one or two in general during HBO movies.

I have seen no Unauthoriized channel errors and I have had not trouble with audio dropouts and I did not have them with my 6200, however, I do not subscribe to HBO.

Glad I found this thread.
I live in mission viejo, and I have them coming out on wednesday to install my HD PVR. I had HD before from cox, but cancelled it 2 months ago. The reason was, I rarely ever got a chance to watch anything in high def. I am used to TIVO, and I rarely watch stuff when it comes on, so going back to "live" watching was just too painful for me.

So when Cox called me last week and said they have a HD PVR, I jumped at it.
I'm also having them take away my direcTV dish...couldn't resist the $200 credit for doing that.

So its working out ok so far?? I can't wait.
I'm considering calling in sick tomorrow so they don't screw up the install if I'm not there....hmm

Originally posted by moyekj
From my understanding: Installation fee - yes. Monthly will be $4.95 more than you are currently paying.

Strange...they quoted me $9.95 for renting the HD PVR....i have nothing currently...

They are coming out tomorrow to install (drop off really) the PVR. I am debating it because I have a TiVo with 170 hours max recording time, and have gotten used to dealing with watching HD live and SD on tivo. I also watch lots of programs recorded on TiVo, but obviously want the HD PVR. What are everyone elses thoughts on the value of the Cox PVR if you have a TiVo?

Originally posted by omarh
Strange...they quoted me $9.95 for renting the HD PVR....i have nothing currently... It's $9.95/month for the Motorola 6412 rental + $4.95/month for PVR service. And since you didn't have digital cable already you will have to pay for one of the digital tiers in addition to the the HD service monthly fee. It all adds up to a pretty hefty bill per month once all is said and done, and that's without premium programming.

Its the same $4.95, when they talked to me they called it additional rental for the PVR and said nothing about a PVR service. I know at least one of their phone reps has gotten a lot of things confused when talking about the 6412.

If you have a DCT 6200 already you can get them to send you a "Fast Connect" kit and avoid the installation cost!!!!

They're sending me a hard drive that slides into the back of the unit, I'm assuming behind that little black door on the back. Then I am to do some things with the remote, I presume mess around in the setup menu, and whala! 6412! It's arriving via UPS and should be here by Monday.

What's amazing is she said at the end of September the firmware would get update for dual tuners, without adding any more hardware? It amazes me that the 6200 I already have has all this equipment already in it.

Anyway, it's an additional $4.95 for DVR service because I'm already paying for an HD box rental...

...and I'm already wondering if I can hack the slide in HDrive with a bigger HDrive... anyone know what OS this thing uses, I'm assuming the HDrive come already set-up with some kind of data on them?

NOTE: Further discussions with a differnt Cox tech indicated that they are indeed sending a FULL new 6412 STB, not just a Hdrvie. Still getting it shipped out without paying the install/rollout cost though :)

Thanks JB. I called and canceled my appointment for a fast connect instead. They are shipping out a new box rather than a hard drive, but saved the installation cost.

All I have to do is switch the box and return the old HD box via UPS They provide a return label, so just drop it off at UPS.

I was glad I paid the $32 installation fee since I received a brand new 6412 not an upgrade and the installer after testing my signals installed an amplifier and replaced several cable ends for no extra charge. I have a friend who was also told they were just going to add a drive to his existing unit but he also received a brand new 6412. Like you I am surprised that the 6200 allready has the two tuners within it and can match the 6412 in functionality with just a firmware download controlled from your remote. I assume they are also sending you a 6412 remote since it is different than the 6200 remote because of its additional PVR functions.
The OS is by Pioneer and I have no idea how it gets loaded. My old Ultimate TV DirectTV PVR system with MS software downloaded the entire OS by phone when I changed its drive a couple of years ago after a drive failure.
Please keep us informed on your installation progress.

Anyone having trouble with their install?
It says Passport Echo, One moment please...and just sits there.

Installer is trying to figure it out now

oK! I'm up and running!

the only thing is, no program guide yet...anyone know how long it takes to download that? or do i have to manually download it?

Thanks for the information on the fast connect kit.

My 6200 was new when they installed it, so I am OK with that ;)

Cox called me last Friday and is coming this Friday to install the HD PVR.

Like rdenichilo, I also have a high-capacity updraded Tivo. Since having the HD receiver, we have continued to record & watch many shows with the Tivo and have tried to catch HD shows live when possible. This was a huge pain after being so used to watching TV on our own schedules with the Tivo.

Once the HD PVR is here I plan to keep using the Tivo for all of the programming we watch that is only available to us in SD.(Stargate SG-1 & Atlantis, Smallville, Tru Calling, etc. etc.) Since the HD box only holds 12-20 hours of HD content it will be a relief to be able to keep our tons of SD stuff on the Tivo and not use up any precious capacity on the HD box.

In addition, the Tivo season pass management & other interface features have always been far superior to any other PVR I've seen. I've been looking over the online demos for the Pioneer Passport-Echo interface and it really looks pretty good. It will be interesting to see if it can measure up after 3 years of using the Tivo interface.

I'd also like to hear other's thoughts about their plans for existing Tivo & Replay boxes and how they compare with the Motorola box.

If anyone figures out how to upgrade the drive in the Moto please let us know. I love Tivo and never want to leave them as a customer, but with no non-Directv HD offering from them, there may come a time when I have to bail on them.

Cheers,
Ray

Not that I've seen a seen/used a 6412 yet, like I said should be here Monday... I'm expecting that I'll probably dump my 80hr Series 2 TiVo on ebay in a few months... to save myself the $12.95 a month and wait until Tivo comes out with a OpenCable Stand Alone High Definition TiVo w/ Home Media option at which point I'll be shipping the 6412 door stop back to Cox.

I'm excited about TiVo adding XM Satellite radio service later this year, as well as the possibility of downloading movies from netflix, although I don't know how far away that is... With those two things I'll be tempted to dump digital and HD cable all together... I love HD, losing it will make me sad, perhaps I can get OTA. However, I hate having ot pay for 100+ channels of digital crap cable channels, just to get the 3 HD Networks and HBO/SHOW HD.

I want the bottom (Analog Channels) and I want the top (Premium and HD Channels) but I don't want to pay for everything in between that I see a monumental waste.

I know I'm totally of subject here, but I'd love to see a satellite provider, or cable company, that offered you channels one by one. I know all the "carry agreements" prevent this, but man it'd be awesome if we could all choose/vote for which channels were worthwhile/worth paying for.


One last thing, I'm not worried about the adding the HD to my existing 6200 which can't be more than a year old anyway, as if that mattered? If it does break/fry/fail to work Cox has to come out an fix it anyway as it's thier equipment, either way I save $30+

Originally posted by omarh
oK! I'm up and running!

the only thing is, no program guide yet...anyone know how long it takes to download that? or do i have to manually download it?

I believe My Passport Echo program guide was there as soon as the box downloaded during the installation and that the installer make sure the guide was correct as part of his intallation checks in fact he and I used it to check the different service options that I had.

Not remembering what I said on my last post, I went ahead with confirming my 6412 upgrade ( they are sending me a new box, not an upgrade kit on Monday). The only problem is that Cox immediately disconnected my existing box! After spending two hrs on the phone with "tech support" , the gentleman on the phone in San Diego was unable to reconnect my box. This has happened on numerous occasions, the people in SD do not know how to properly reset a box from their location. I now have to waste tomorrow afternoon waiting for a service rep to re-hit my box from the RSM site. This is so I can use my existing box through the weekend. DirectTV or Zoom is looking better each and every day!:mad:

I was able to get my Passport echo guide by calling cox, and through their automated phone system I had to reload my box for me. It said to leave it off for 10 minutes, so I did that, and when I came back up it had my guide etc. Had to call again though to get showtime HD turned on...for some reason I only get some of the showtime channels not all...he said I have to subscribe to two premiums to get all of the showtimes...kinda weird eh? oh well.

I'm enjoying it a lot so far. Can't wait for the dual tuner support though, and this season's new shows.
Saw the previews for Hawaii...looks nice in HD!

Oh hey, is there some way to look up how much space is left??
it doesn't seem obvious to me.

Originally posted by niesman
...only problem is that Cox immediately disconnected my existing box!

Exact some thing happened to me. Last night I came home to find my Cable box on channel 0 with no picture... It took about 20 minutes on the phone with the tech. He was helpful, but it did seem to take longer than it needed to.

BTW, I AM NOT GETTING JUST A HD to add to my DCT6200. The person I talked to that said the "Fast Connect" kit was just a hard drive to add to my existing STB was mistaken according to the tech I talked to last night. They indicated I was definitely being shipped a whole new box and would be returning the DCT6200. The good news is still that I'm not getting charged the rollout/install fee.

It is interesting though looking at back of my DCT6200 there is a slot for a HDrive... and the IS a connector on the main board where a HDrive could/would plug into. Makes me think that the 6412 is just a 6200 with a HDrive and maybe a daughter card somewhere else... sure wish I could open this thing up... but I'm not!

Well, Cox sent me my HD-PVR today. Was there in my office when I got in this morning. Must have come last night after I got off work. I'll hook it up and give my impressions in a day or so. Really happy to finally get the DVI working for my cable system.
What sucks though... is now because it is a different remote, I now have to re-program my Universal remote to get all the new features working.

FWIW, I've had my DCT6200 hooked up via DVI for a couple months now and will be switching back to component when I get my 6412. Why? because my Samsung HLN567 only has one DVI input and it makes a bigger difference to my DVD Player (Samsung HD931).

This is because the HD931 up-converts the 480p dvd to 720p, but only to the DVI output. This produces STUNNING output on my display. Outputting 480p over component and letting the display up-convert it results in a softer muddier picture.

There is a difference between the DCT6200 outputting High Def over component vs. DVI, but it's not dramatic. Oh and I can't see ANY difference on Std. Def.

Of course the above is all just IMHO...

I noticed the 6412 has an i.link or firewire port...can I use that to export shows to my PC? My computer is kind of far away from it so I don't want to move it over just to test this.

Well just when I was about to give up on COX my 6412 showed up before the cox rep did. Set up (by me) went smoothly. My initial impression is that SD over component is about the same as my 5100 whit the exception of some noticable vertical banding on sports related material ( the lane line on the Olympic track and field to be exact). The DVI SD does not have the banding but has some mpeg blocking. I have not tweaked my TV for the DVI output but it appears to be excellent on HD material and superior on SD.:)

More later.

niesman

Got my 6412 last night via UPS. Hooked it up myself in about 15 seconds. Then I spent 20 minutes trying to figure out why I had no audio... umm... because the TosLink cable pulled itself out of the back of the STB when I slid it back into the rack... duh...

I haven't used it yet to schedule a recording... I haven't quite figured out how and which subscriptions I'm going to move over from my TiVo and I'm already going to miss HMO now that I have my TiVo linked to my home PC with all my MP3's and pictures a click away from playing on my home theater.

I always though those with 6208's saying how much better the TiVo interface was were just a bunch of picky complainers... I'm here to say I'm wrong... the TiVo interface BLOWS AWAYS THIS CLUNKY PIECE OF CRUD. I'd use a harsher word than crud, but it does record in HD and will soon have dual tuner capability so that keeps it from sinking all the way down to the s word.

I have noticed a few audio glitches, momentary drops, perhaps just a crummy HD feed from the Olympics.

I have noticed severe jitteryness when initiating a record. The FF/RR speeds could be better.

I have noticed other minor annoyances... I report on the bad and the good after the weekend assuming I find some time to play with it.

Originally posted by omarh
I noticed the 6412 has an i.link or firewire port...can I use that to export shows to my PC? My computer is kind of far away from it so I don't want to move it over just to test this.

I too am wondering about the usability of the 1394 port, I havn't heard of anyone using it very successfully yet...

I think at present they are only "half functioning", meaning you can export a live digital signal (just like DVI) but you can't get your PC to change channels on the STB or to copy recorded shows off the DVR via 1394. What is the current 1394 implementation good for then you might ask? It's great if you have a display that has a 1394 input (some mitisu's do I think) and no DVI input.

AFAIK the only thing you can do easily with the 1394 port is record the MPEG2 signal of the selected channel to D-VCR or maybe its called D-VHS. There is also information on the HDTV/Recorders thread on how to record to a PC. I have seen no informaion on any implementaion of using the 1394 interface to control a Motorola STB (or any other brand for that matter).

Do you by chance know if it's just the selected channel, or if it's the current stream output, that is sent out the 1394? What I want to know is if I start playing a recorded show/event, would I then be able to archive it off the 1394 port into my D-VHS recorder, or would I just be archiving whatever is live channel is being tuned at the time? I know, I know... I should just try it this weekend... but I'll have to get a firewire cable and some D-VHS tapes.. And I've got the old JVC30k. Never recorded with it ever! Just played back D-VHS and D-Theater, so I'm not sure if I want to start messing w/ the heads and getting all the problems other people have had with it once they started using it to actually record..!! :)

-T

Ok,
has anyone noticed those "Order in" segments on INHD1? What's that? It looks like PPV for HD...but its not available yet?
None of the INdemand channels payperview are in HD, as far as I can tell.

Order In is a show similar to "In Theaters" except instead of showing movies that are currently (or about to show) in the movie theaters, they show stuff that either has recently been, is on, or will soon be on pay-per-view. The show itself and its film clips are in HD but the stuff they advertise isn't (since Cox doesn't currently have any PPV HD channels).

I'm pretty happy w/ the HD-DVR so far.. I'll be extremely pleased when the dual-tuner software comes out, so you can record/watch, swap, pip and swap without losing buffer, etc.

I do get the occasional "You must subscribe to this channel" on some of the HD channels like an earlier post mentioned might happen. Other than that, it's been recording like a charm.

I've never had TIVO before so I guess I'm a DVR newbie.

-T

Got the HD-PVR installed this morning. The guy had not done a PVR install before.(he was a contractor and not a Cox employee, Cox uses them a lot)

First he checks signal strength at street, house box and then at the TV location. A little weak but within parameters. Actual box hookup took about 45 seconds - pull the old 5100 and repace it with the 6412. He then called the office and had them "hit" the box with softare and initialize on the system. When we turned it on we got guide data and a nice program grid, but no picture or sound.

An hour later after checking signals again, replacing the signal amp and finally running a loose cable straight from the house box to the TV -he decided to try another box. Fortunately he had an extra one in the truck.

Plugged the new box in and viola- a picture! So what looked to me like a bad tuner turned out to be a bad tuner. go figure

I could have saved the installation fee and had them ship me a box, but if I'd gotten a dead box like this one, it would have been a HUGE pain. First convincing them it was a bad box(if even possible) and then waiting for a new one.

I had to leave for work, so I couldn't play with it for long, but it looked pretty good. PVR functions seemed OK.

I'll have to play with it over the weekend to get an idea of how it really compares to the Tivo, but as an earlier poster said - It records HD and will soon have two tuners - so there's two crucial advantages is has over the Tivo for now.

Cheers,
Ray

I just got mine installed today and I've never owned a DVR before. Already have all of the World Cup of Hockey HD games set for recording. :)

I was told that the dual-tuner wouldn't be active until 1st quarter 2005. :(

I also really miss the ability to scan up and down the channels without having to pull up the full guide and shrinking the picture to the small box in the corner. :(

Does anyone know if you record a non-HD encoded program on channel 707, does it record on the hard drive as if it was HD? Does it take up more space on the hard drive? Is it better to record non-HD programming on channel 7?

P.S. Any word on if Cox will be adding the WB in HD before the fall season starts?

Old news to some of you, but the firewire port is really good for something on these 6200 & 6412 boxes. At least there's a way to pull HD recordings off the 6412 to your WinXP box. I posted this over at the ReplayTV forum where I spend most of my forum time:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=439916

I have heard a date of Septembr 13th for the dual tuner 6412 upgrade by Cox and I have heard sometime this fall.
All recorded programs regardless of souce: analog, Digital or HD digital go to the Hard Drive. Recording from channel 7 should take less space on the HD since channel 7 is 480i video and channel 707 is 720p video even for SD programs.

I heard "by the end of septemper" for dual tuner support...

But here are my thoughts on this thing so far:

1) I like the TiVo software/interface better, but it's liveable.

2) I think the 6412 has better PQ on recorded material (SD and HD obviously) than the TiVo. I used to frequently record HD material on my TiVo and then watch it zoomed in widescreen. Which was better than nothing, but not great.

3) The fast forward (slow/one click) is way too damned fast. Again, TiVo better, although the high speed (fast/three clicks) is great.

4) I already miss my 30 second skip button

5) I really don't like that if you are watching live TV and hit record the buffer doesn't get added to the front of the recorded show. TiVo gets the show from the begining by using the live tv buffer.

OK. Here are my quick thoughts... keep in mind that I have never had a Tivo, so this is all new to me.

Took the 6412 home and hooked it up in less than 1 minute. Just switching out my 6200. So far I have only used the Component connections and I am looking forward to replacing those with DVI here in the next week or so.

Picture quality (SD and HD) seems to be the same between the 6200 and the new 6412.

I really like the new guide system though. It is much easier to read and it is cool that they now have a picture window in the right corner. I always hated that when you went to the guide on the old boxes that all you saw was the guide and nothing else. Downfall is that it is much slower to scroll around through the actual guide system and you cannot just hit the scroll up or down to see what is on in the stations. You have to use the guide.

The DVR works flawlessly so far in both SD and HD (finally I can record). I especially like that when you you are on a paticular station that it remembers where you started watching and at any time you can go back to the beginning (It is not recording but seems to store it in a buffer). You can pause live at any time is another cool feature too. Remember this is all new to me.

Now on to a few questions that I have.

1. How can you tell how much space is left on the HDD.

Currently I have Star Wars: Attack Of The Clones (HD) and Johnny English (HD) and 2hrs of Olympics (SD) recorded, but nowhere can I find how much space is left.

2. How long will it remember a station that you are on (not recording/Live)?

Say I am watching HBO HD and started watching at 6:00 pm. till 11:30 pm... can I rewind all the back to 6:00 pm? How long is the buffer?

3. Is DVI going to have that much of a better picture quality than Component?

This odd thing happened only once so far..so I hope its a fluke. I was watching a movie I recorded in High Def...it was "We were Soldiers" and in the middle of the movie, it spontaneously rebooted! It was recording something in the background (stargate atlantis if it matters)...and after it came back, it resumed recording atlantis and I was able to go back to watch the prerecorded movie. interesting eh?

As for not being able to record the buffer when you're watching a show..that does suck...but I remember my old replayTV had the same problem..its obviously not an easy thing to implement for some reason?? OH well. I can live with it..its not a big loss.
what I really can't wait for is dual tuners....that will be most excellent.

Warning - LONG Post

OK, I've spent the weekend with the 6412, some observations:

In many cases I'll be comparing the 6412 to the stand-alone Sony Tivo that I've had for about 3 years.

For someone who has never owned another PVR, this box will be the coolest thing since ...well, since you got a TV in the first place. It will completely change the way you watch Television.


The Good:

Although two tuners isn't supported yet, it will be great when it comes out. Standalone Tivo's only have one, Directv Tivos have two.

Picture Quality
1. HD recording looks excactly the same as live HD - simply stunning! It is fantastic to now be able to timeshift HD and to record some of great shows you always wish were on when someone comes over and wants to see what HDTV looks like.

2. Recorded Digital Cable Channels(100+) also look identical to the live program and looks better than what I get with the stand-alone Tivo. In the interest of space I won't go into the technical reasons why this is the case.

3. Analog Channel(1-100) recording quality on the 6412 is different but roughly equivalent to the Tivo best quality setting. In either case, the box(6412 or Tivo) tunes the channel, digitizes and MPEG compresses it before writing it to disk. They do look different, Tivo seems to be sharper, which also makes pixels more visible, where the overall look with the 6412 is kind of like soft-focus. No visible pixels, but a softer picture. Which is better is pretty subjective.

Recording Playback & control of live TV
1. The 6412 has nice graphics which are newer/cleaner graphics than the Tivo, i.e. the time bar when you pause/rw/ff a show.

2. I'm used to the audibe beeps & sounds from the Tivo interface, so I miss those on the 6412.

3. The 6412 does not have the "auto backup" feature that the Tivo has when doing highs-speed rw & ff. Basically with the Tivo, you can do high-speed ff through the commercial, when you see your show come back on & press play, it automatically starts back a few seconds from where you pushed play, which, after a little practive is always right where your program starts. I live by this feature and really think it's better than the 30-second skip hack that many other Tivo users swear by. Bottom line, the 6412 has neither of these features.

4. It took some time to find, but you can skip forward/back in 15 minute increments in a program with the 6412 as you can with Tivo. To do this on the 6412, start ff(any speed) and then press the Right Cursour/Menu key. This skips you to the next 15 minute "tick mark" on the timebar of the program. The same thing works in reverse with the rw key and Left Cursor/Menu key.

4. In a pre-recorded program you can pause and then move forward one frame at a time by pressing the Right Cursor/Menu key. This does not work with the Live TV buffer since this key brings up current program info. Right now, you cannot go back one frame at a time with the 6412.

5. One really cool feature I noticed - If you leave a program paused, after about 6 minutes a "screensaver" mode kicks in. The paused picture is put into a small window & moved around the(now black) screen so you don't get burn-in. VERY NICE!

The Passport/Echo Guide Interface
1. The guide is MUCH nicer looking than anything I've ever seen from cable before & even be nicer looking than the Tivo's. Putting the current show in a window so you can watch it while in the guide is nice, but takes up a lot of screen real estate. Looks a lot like the Dish PVR I've seen.

This is where we get to

The Bad:

The guide, while a pretty face, also has some serious usability problems.
What I've noticed so far:

1. If you want to record a show that comes on in 20 minutes it's pretty slick, bring up the pretty guide, scroll to the program and press select.

2. If you want to record a show that's on at noon tommorow, not great but not too bad. Bring up the guide, use the "day +" key to move to tommorow and depending what time it is now, you'll have to move no more than 12 hours in half hour increments. So, maximum clicks to get to the correct time - 24. That's a bunch but not too many.

3. The real usability problem comes if you need to search for a program by name. Example: I saw an ad for one of my favorite HD shows, "Peter Gabriel: Growing UP Live", so I decided to make that my first scheduled recording. Since I didn't catch when it came on I decided to search by name.
To do this you bring up the guide and choose search by name. Then you scroll to the letter "P", not too bad so far. Problem is, once you're to "P" you can't type the next letter of the program name, but have to scroll through ALL the listings that start with "P".
So now you scroll through "P" listing a page at a time. Each "page" is only about 6 listings since most of the screen is taken up by the pretty window showing the program you were watching before going to the guide. This is kind of tedious but OK until you come to listing for "Paid Program" after scrolling forever in these, I decided it might be easier to scroll the other direction in the P's starting at the bottom. That was also incredibly tedious, especially once I got to the listings for "Programa Pagado". I went back later and decided to count the number of clicks. Going backwards, I counted 46 pages of "Programa Pagado", plus at least another 50-60 clicks to get the rest of the way to "Peter Gabriel". Going forward I counted 300, yes THREE HUNDRED pages of "Paid Program" before I gave up. By then I was on Wed. listing and the listings went through Saturday. So I was probably about 200 more clicks away from being done with the "Paid Program" listings.
Now, "Peter Gabriel" might just have been on an unlucky letter of the alphabet, but this is a serious useability problem right now.
On the Tivo, you have an onscreen keyboard and usually after typing in the first 2-4 letters, you can see your show and scroll to it. For most shows this is a 5-10 click process from start to finish.

The Ugly:
I also ran into the following issues which are not really interface design issues, but bugs.

1. As has been mentioned before, you often get "Subscription Service" messages when going to a subscribed channel. You can channel off & back on and it usually fixes it. This is fine if you're watching live TV but has much bigger implications if it's a scheduled recording and you're not there to babysit it. (see below)

2. With my scheduled "Peter Gabriel" program, I came downstairs about 10 minutes after it started and noticed the red recording light was not on. I immediatly turned on the tv and got the "Subscription Service" logo and the show wouldn't come on. Channeling up/down fixed it so I could see it, but the scheduled recording was not going as it should have. I looked at the recordings list and saw it listed as a 1-minute recording program, but there was nothing there. My best guess is that the "Subscription Service" bug in turn caused this program not to record. Rather than recording the "Subscrition Service" logo for 2 1/2 hours it chose not to record at all.
Fortunately they were re-running the show that night, but if this had been a single run program or series episode I would have been S.O.L. and extremly upset about it. I set it up to record later that night and 10 minutes before start time tuned to that channel and left it there to make sure there was no "Subscription Service" problem. It worked this time and I now have my first great reference program.

3. Sometimes while playing with live-tv, the screen picture doesn't always come back after pausing. In one case it came back about 2/3 obscured by random pixelization. This was not just a display issue, but when I would rewind well to before the issue and play it back, the pixelization would reoccur when I got back to that place. So it had been recorded bad. In this case, the pixelization did not stop occuring until I channeled away and back to the program. Fine if you're live, but not if you're 20 minutes behind live and lose that 20 minutes by channeling away.


Summary:
Great recording quality, the makings of a pretty good interface, and some potentially critical bugs.
Hoping some of the usability issues get improved upon & especially that the bugs get fixed.
My Tivo is definitly not going away in the forseeable future, but if they get stuff fixed, improve usability & upgrade capacity a bunch, the $14 a month I'm paying Tivo is going to start to bug me.
The 6412 isn't going anywhere either. Especially at the bargain price of $4.95 a month for HD recording. With HD Tivo/Directv or Dish it costs you $900 to just get on the bus and the same $4.95 a month Cox charges to stay on the bus.


For now, I'll try to use the 6412 only for HD content & schedule conflicts & see if it misses any other scheduled recordings. With only 12-20 hours HD capacity, it's gonna be pretty tough. The 2 1/2 Peter Gabriel will stay on for reference material & I'll probably get a snippet of sports and some nature-type stuff for reference as well. This will probably leave me with 8 hours or so of room for time-shifting HD stuff once the fall season begins.

Tiresius, thanks for the comprehensive review... gives me a very good idea as to what to expect when my box arrives. I could relate to your comparisons to Tivo being a long time ReplayTV owner (I have 4 ReplayTV boxes). With ReplayTV I am spoiled with complete navigation control - automatic commercial skipping, 30-second skip, next/prev scene skip and complete random access to any portion of a program - i.e. type in the number of minutes to jump ahead or back, etc. With the 6412 navigation control is very limited, not even a 30-second skip. I was pleased to see at least a skip 15 min option, so thanks very much for explaining how to do that at least.

I noticed you didn't mention anything about management of recorded programs, space management, schedule conflicts, etc., most likely because you don't have much recorded yet so didn't have to deal with any of that yet, but I expect to be very annoyed by that too.

All in all, though I have to say from everything I've heard this PVR sounds better than many other PVR boxes offered by Cable and satellite providers. It's not completely dumbed down which is nice to hear.

The other thing I will want to test once I get my 6412 is to see if I can extract recorded programs off the box, including HD recordings. With the 6200 this is already possible via the firewire interface and Windows XP, and supposedly will work for the 6412 for either live tuner capture or for pre-recorded show capture (once you start playing back a show).

hi moyekj,
when do you get your 6412??

I was getting those annoying "subscribe to this channel" bug a lot initially but I haven't been getting them recently. No idea if its because I called in and used the automated "reset" process to reload my box. whatever that did.

I noticed a strange "bug"...when setting it to record a series for stargate sg-1...it was going to record duplicate episodes! in the scheduled recordings screen it showed the duplicates they were coming on at different times on the same channel. kind of stupid eh? i'm surprised it doesn't screen out duplicates like my tivo. i manually removed them and all was fine.

anyway, i think its perfectly usable...yea its not as sophisticated as tivo..but oh well..it records HD which is damn nice...and you can save recordings until manually erased...so that's nice.
i do like how when it asks you something you can quickly choose from option A, B or C...you don't have to move up and down and select a menu item. of course if you hit the wrong key that would suck, cause you could erase something you didn't want to. now that i think about it...there's no confirmation screen...when its finished with a recording, it just says, stop and erase or stop and save...and boom if you hit the first one (a) you've lost it!

I normally like to quote things, but there is way to much in the last 3 posts so hopefully everyone can follow along...

Tivo Beeping noises... LOL my g/f misses those as well.

Peter Gabriell, funny that the first thing I recorded and it was because of my g/f as well... frankly I didn't like the concert, I'm not a Peter Gabriel fan, but I enjoyed watching the HD and thinking how cool it was.

I am VERY anoyed by not being able convert the live buffer into a recorded program.

I am VERY annoyed as you are by the pitiful ability to search buy name for a program. The over ability to schedule programs is very poor. It is however probably the best cable guide and cable based DVR software I've seen or heard about (meaning actually released and in the wild).

The "subscribe to this channel" bug comes and goes

You can screen out duplicate episodes, you need to go into recording options.

I DO NOT like the A B C buttons, because I use a universal (HTM MX-500) and had to map them to my LCD screen which makes them a pain to get to with my thumb. I'd FAR rather scroll with the cursor (where my thumb already is) to highlight an option and then click select to confirm it.

Yes you can take live and recorded shows off the box (by re-playing them) via 1394 as transport streams. However... they are difficult to play on anything but a very high end computer, require roughly 8.4 GB per hour, and can NOT be transfered back onto your DVR to watch later. So, perhaps useful if you have a high-end HTPC that's already configured to display directly to your HDTV, otherwise not so much...

Regarding the guide - There ought to be an options to:
1) Select text size / number of lines per screen in the grid. I have a big TV and would be very happy reading more lines of smaller text, but I know that programing wise this would be difficult.
2) Choose between showing the live/replaying program in the corner or using the full screen for the guide
3) Better search by name ability for scheduling recordings

I am probably going to keep my TiVo for SD for a while and use my 6412 for HD only for a little while, but I keep changing my mind daily... so the TiVo might go tomorrow. I just need to figure out how to transfer my 15 season passes from TiVo to the 6412...

Is everyone sending this coments to Cox as well as posting them here?

moyekj,

I agree, not being able to save live buffer really stinks.

You are correct on recording management & season pass type stuff, I don't have enough recorded to comment yet. I suspect annoyances there too. For example, I've found no way to determine space available.

I suspect I'll get around to playing with the firewire as some point, but as was pointed out, it's not that useful once you get it onto the computer. -yet.

jb510,

I was not a Peter Gabriel fan either, in fact, I still can't STAND Sledgehammer because it got SO overplayed on MTV back in the day. This concert changed my mind, and it's great reference, especially when he's in the ball. We bought the DVD after seeing this, and there is a huge difference in how good in looks in HD compared to DVD. Picture =way better in HD, sound =way better on the DVD.

Also agree to the comments the 6412 it is by far better than any past cable PVR offering, or even any other past guide on non-PVR's. When they fix a few things and improve useablility in searching it will be a worthy rival to Tivo & Replay. It'll still lose, but it will be "good enough" for the masses who know no better. That's the big scary thing that Tivo & Replay have to be scared about, because they just can't compete on price with the likes of Cox, TimeWarner, Comcast, etc.

I wish Tivo would score some licensing agreements with someone other than Directv - specifically Cox. I'd pay a $5 or so premium over the "standard" PVR fee for the Tivo interface.

Cheers,
Ray

First off thank you to all of you for your very informative posts.
I have noticed almost all of the same pros/cons listed in this fourm over the past few days. The most annoying being the subscribe to this channel bug. I called Cox to ask when this issue was going to be addressed. The specialist said that the bug did not exist and that the issue was with the gain in my cable line. I doubt that this is true. I had zero issues with the 6200 and the gain window is the same for both boxes. Anyway they are sending a service rep tomorrow to check the lines. As for PQ I have found that 720p with the 4:3 default off works best for my Sony 60XBR800. The DVI output is somewhat washed out so I am sticking to component. This is an issue with the Sony, the DVI is not true all DVI, the Sony 800 series uses the same circuits as the component.

niesman

Originally posted by jb510
Yes you can take live and recorded shows off the box (by re-playing them) via 1394 as transport streams. However... they are difficult to play on anything but a very high end computer, require roughly 8.4 GB per hour, and can NOT be transfered back onto your DVR to watch later. So, perhaps useful if you have a high-end HTPC that's already configured to display directly to your HDTV, otherwise not so much...


Originally posted by Tiresius
I suspect I'll get around to playing with the firewire as some point, but as was pointed out, it's not that useful once you get it onto the computer. -yet.

Well initially I had a problem with playback of captured HD transport streams too since I'm using a laptop, but it turns out if you use the right player, and more importantly the Sasem decoders, you don't need a high end computer for playback. Media Player Classic does a good job of playback, consuming about 30-40% CPU on my laptop when playing back HD streams. It worked OK with the default decoder and even better when I switched it to use the Sasem decoder. That being said there are some problems with the transport streams themselves which cause glitches that not all players can handle properly, so playback can be hit or miss at times. The real problem is the size of the files as mentioned, so they can't really be archived to conventional DVDs - can't wait for blue laser DVD players+writers with 25G disk capacity to be released in the USA.

Originally posted by omarh
hi moyekj,
when do you get your 6412??
Not soon enough!! Unfortunately I didn't become aware of this thread or the HD PVR offering until a few weeks ago - last I had checked on Cox OC PVR offering months ago it was supposed to be SD only which I had no interest in. So I didn't sign up until about 1 month ago so probably am on the bottom of the list... may be a blessing in disguise since hopefully some of the quirks/problems mentioned already may have been resolved by the time I get mine - and even the dual-tuner upgrade is likely to be in place before I get mine.

I must say too that NBCHD Olympic coverage was disgraceful and the amount of artifacting in the HD stream was just intolerable - in fact I find the network HD feeds to be pretty bad in terms of compression artifacts. INHD1/2 and Discovery HD seem to be WAY better in that respect. I didn't expect HD to be Nirvana for picture quality, especially coming from a cable provider short on bandwidth, but also didn't expect to see such blatent compression artifacts. I don't know if it's Cox or the broadcasters to blame.

For me it was a replacement for the original HD Box, a 5100 if I remember correctly. The only complaint I have is that they wouldn't let me move the old box up to my bedroom to hook up to my GWIII.

I have only seen the subscription bug once. Boy what an improvement in PQ for both SD and HD.

Unlike all you TIVO people, I have two networked ReplayTV boxes. I'm probably going to keep the one in the living room just to be able to play shows recorded in the bedroom on the 100" screen even though it isn't HD.

As far as the cable guide goes, it really is sluggish although once it starts fast forwarding it's cool. My two biggest gripes are the difficulty in finding shows and, unless I'm missing something, my inability to block the display of stations I have no interest in seeing in the grid. I realize I can select favorites, but that only helps if you want to surf through the favorites. I don't do that, I scroll through the cable guide and 75% of the channels are ones I have no interest in seeing. The old Gemstar guide let you do this but not the previous or this new Cox guide.

Originally posted by Tiresius
3. The 6412 does not have the "auto backup" feature that the Tivo has when doing highs-speed rw & ff. Basically with the Tivo, you can do high-speed ff through the commercial, when you see your show come back on & press play, it automatically starts back a few seconds from where you pushed play, which, after a little practive is always right where your program starts. I live by this feature and really think it's better than the 30-second skip hack that many other Tivo users swear by. Bottom line, the 6412 has neither of these features.


My 6412 definitely has the auto-backup feature when watching a program with the buffer. I was watching CSI:Miami last night and when I was "triple bar" fast forwarding, I would press play and it would back-up almost perfectly with the fade-in to the show. I was very impressed with this feature.

I haven't tested it with pre-recorded shows and maybe this is where you were trying to use this feature.

yea I did notice a lot of compression artifacts on the olympics HD feed on cox...you notice it when there's a lot of action on the screen, just not enough bandwidth being allocated!! but when there wasn't much motion the quality sure was beautiful.

anyway, I wanted to mention that my 6412 does have the auto-backup feature too. If I fast forward at twice ff speed (hit it twice) and then hit play, it backs up a few seconds.....i tried this several times and it works. I dont' know if it does it if you only fast forward at 2x speed....

Originally posted by flip831
My two biggest gripes are the difficulty in finding shows and, unless I'm missing something, my inability to block the display of stations I have no interest in seeing in the grid. I realize I can select favorites, but that only helps if you want to surf through the favorites. I don't do that, I scroll through the cable guide and 75% of the channels are ones I have no interest in seeing. The old Gemstar guide let you do this but not the previous or this new Cox guide. You're not missing anything... this is by design. I think Cox wants to make sure you see ALL channels in the guide, especially all the PPV crap to try and entice you to buy. I find this very annoying - as you mentioned with the Replay you can completely hide all channels you don't want or subscribe to. I like the Replay guide so much better that I will select the Replay input on the TV and use the Replay guide for guide surfing and tuning to a channel. If it's an HD channel then I'll switch input back to cable box - it helps to have a good universal remote to do this easily.

Not pretty, but couldn't you use one of the freebie programs and break up a show into several DVD's for now after you've saved it to your PC?

I signed up long ago, no word so far from Cox, but I'm not in a hurry after reading all this. Are you saying the new software's search capabilities is that different from the 6200's software?

If I was to search for Peter Gabrial with the 6200....Once I'd found it the first time, I'd hit a button 3 times, then right arrow, and it shows me all Peter Gabrial material for the next week. If I'd only hit the button (forget name, am at work) 2 times, then right arrow....it would search all the "P's"...taking a year.

And the Sound of the show....HD vs DVD. Are you taking the digital output (optical) from the 6412 to your receiver? It should be the same HD or DVD. I "do" notice a big difference cause my current HTB Receiver has no digital input (but built-in progressive scan dvd) so DVD's always sound much better. That will change soon though.....already have my new receiver purchase planned now thats its finally out!

I may see if my email contact at Cox is still good, reference them to the new traffic here on the 6412.....

JET

With my experience the software for the 6412 is as good if not better than the 6200. I think the compraros are mostly to other DVR software like ReplayTV or Tivo. As far as your Peter Gabrial scenario, that still works like it does in the 6200, so long as you've found it on the regular guide. And if you did find it on the regular guide, it'd probably be easier to just record the "all instances" including repeats.

I think for the most part, the "bugs" with the system have already been addressed in a post a few pages ago (the bugs are already known). There are some quirks and usability issues for many users who already own Tivo/ReplayTV, but those seem to mostly be outweighed by the fact that this machine can record/playback HD.

Having never owned/used a DVR prior to this, I think this is a great great addition to my home theater, and can't wait for the dual tuner software to come out. My gripe? The guide is slower when you're viewing an HD channel vs. a regular channel. I'm guessing it's because it takes a lot of work to take the HD feed and compress it into the top right corner vs. a regular SD feed into the top right corner...

-T

The HD feed is transmitted in MPEG2 compression format. This means that the entire screen is only updated about every second or so and only changes to the screen are transmitted till the next full update. Therefore it can take a second or two for a complete HD image to be able to be displayed. This is also why you may see some pixelation or smerring on high movement activity because the transmitting station has not allocated enough bandwidh to handle the volume of quick changes.

I also think that this is a great addition to my home theater. Since I have never had a Tivo... this is all new to me. I own several DVD Recorders that do similar things along with a few DVD-RW's, but this is a nice new addition and I think the bugs will soon be corrected. Just a matter of time as all things new are. I do think that the guide is too slow to scroll through, but it isn't something that is going to turn me off of the new device.
One glaring problem is that there is no way to see how much space is available left to use on the HDD. I am guessing that is why it will delete the oldest recorded programs on the HDD to make room for the new stuff... that is unless you have locked a program on the machine... then what does it do?
I do wish that when you hit the Up and Down arrows on the scroll pad that it would show the next stations... like the older boxes do. Now you actually have to go to the guide.
Otherwise this is a great little device. Has anyone hooked it up with DVI yet? I am currently using Component and want to know if it is worth it to upgrade to DVI?
One last note... since I have several rooms in my home, I got Cox to send me out a 2nd DVR box. So here in Lake Forest (next to their local office) they seem to be in decent supply.

S