Unfortunately it's not a permanent setup since there's no way to get coax from balcony to inside without leaving balcony door open (unless I drill through the wall which ain't gonna happen). Mostly I was trying to see if it is still possible to get OTA reception here reliably in case in extreme case I need to go OTA only. I also took the opportunity however to take Windows Media Center Edition (which cam standard with Vista Home Premium on my laptop along with an OTA tuner) for a test drive to get an idea of how a future possible HTPC with CableCard tuners may be. No Tivo of course but it looks like an OK solution. Sure would be nice to have a single 4-6 tuner system where conflict resolution would never be an issue.

Well, if we ever have an "extreme" situation where we need a good comparison, it's good to know you'll be there for us, then.;)

Realizing that TiVo can't possibly make much (if any) $s off the DVR itself, any chance they would eventually write PC software that could work with the new PC CableCARD tuner cards? Imagine a TiVo with unlimited storage and four or more tuners.

Thanks for the info. That helps.

Well, if we ever have an "extreme" situation where we need a good comparison, it's good to know you'll be there for us, then.;)

Realizing that TiVo can't possibly make much (if any) $s off the DVR itself, any chance they would eventually write PC software that could work with the new PC CableCARD tuner cards? Imagine a TiVo with unlimited storage and four or more tuners. Well there is Nero Liquid TV Tivo PC (http://www.nero.com/enu/liquidtv-introduction.html) but from most reviews it has plenty of problems and doesn't even work all that well with other Tivos. I think MCE is a better solution and comes installed already in most new versions of Windows - and with MCE the guide listings are free as opposed to the Nero solution.

Aaahh, so OTA Fox 11 moved during the transition... that makes sense. My antenna is indeed UHF only. Have you tried those "flat square" antennas?

I think I'll be buying a new antenna. But I wonder if my four year old LG can tune those channels.

I'm about 60 miles from Mt. Wilson but I have a straight shot. Right by UCI.

For all you southern california Cox users, how much does Cox charge to install cable cards? Do they charge "per card", or "per visit" if you have multiple HD Tivo's that you want cards in?
Also, I heard that the OEM limit had been lifted on cable cards - does this effect how Cox does business in any way - for example, if I use an HTPC to record HD, does Cox charge for that install?

For all you southern california Cox users, how much does Cox charge to install cable cards? Do they charge "per card", or "per visit" if you have multiple HD Tivo's that you want cards in?
Also, I heard that the OEM limit had been lifted on cable cards - does this effect how Cox does business in any way - for example, if I use an HTPC to record HD, does Cox charge for that install?

It's $50 for the install, whether it be 1, 2, or more CableCARDS. It's the same regardless of the device the cards will be installed in. By the way, I successfully got them to waive the fee. You may be able to do the same, depending on how hard you push and your monthly bill with Cox.

It's $50 for the install, whether it be 1, 2, or more CableCARDS. It's the same regardless of the device the cards will be installed in. By the way, I successfully got them to waive the fee. You may be able to do the same, depending on how hard you push and your monthly bill with Cox.

my monthly is near $150 - do the installers waive it, or the telephone sales types?

my monthly is near $150 - do the installers waive it, or the telephone sales types?

The customer service rep waived mine. I had to escalate to level 2 (or a manager, can't recall), but they did waive the fee. The first guy told me his system would not allow for changes like that. I kindly said they waive items all the time and perhaps he could let me speak with his supervisor. He went away for a few minutes and let me know they would do it this one time. :rolleyes: Give them a gentle push; you'll get it waived.

The customer service rep waived mine. I had to escalate to level 2 (or a manager, can't recall), but they did waive the fee. The first guy told me his system would not allow for changes like that. I kindly said they waive items all the time and perhaps he could let me speak with his supervisor. He went away for a few minutes and let me know they would do it this one time. :rolleyes: Give them a gentle push; you'll get it waived.

thanks - they tried to sell me on the idea of their new DVR that arrives in two months.

thanks - they tried to sell me on the idea of their new DVR that arrives in two months.

So you didn't get the install fee waived, or are you talking about an earlier call? What new DVR? Larger capacity?

thanks - they tried to sell me on the idea of their new DVR that arrives in two months.

Also interested in the details of the new DVR. A new DVR just might keep me on Cox for a little while longer.

New DVR is probably related to this (http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/04-06-2009/0005001465&EDATE=) announcement in April of a new DVR. Highlights are:
* MoCA enabled to allow SD & HD multi-room viewing using existing coax. Clients are other non-DVR MoCA enabled boxes.

* Larger hard drive. Article doesn't say what size but I speculate 250GB.

* New EPG (no doubt to allow multi-room viewing options among other things).

From what I recall currently it costs $17/month for existing DVR, so wouldn't be surprised if this new DVR costs more than that but it could well be same price.

New DVR is probably related to this (http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/04-06-2009/0005001465&EDATE=) announcement in April of a new DVR. Highlights are:
* MoCA enabled to allow SD & HD multi-room viewing using existing coax. Clients are other non-DVR MoCA enabled boxes.

* Larger hard drive. Article doesn't say what size but I speculate 250GB.

* New EPG (no doubt to allow multi-room viewing options among other things).

From what I recall currently it costs $17/month for existing DVR, so wouldn't be surprised if this new DVR costs more than that but it could well be same price.

Okay, thanks for the update. Sounds like I can do all this with my existing TiVo HD/S2 solution - except the HD MRV, but that'll come when I get another TiVo HD (or S4, if it comes eventually) down the road.

I'm not at home, but wonder if the change is the big pending change Cox has been touting of late. My understanding was that the interface was going to change substantially, not just moving menus around. You are right about wondering who will spend that kind of money. Recent studies have shown that the Netflix-type streaming model is cost effective, while PPV, at least at current pricing, is not as effective. This pricing issue is not just Cox; it's similar for amazon and other downloading services, as well as cable providers. In time, they will understand this. For now, I'm just glad Netflix gets it. :)

I guess the "big pending change" (On Demand) is coming any day. I got a pamphlet in the mail with my Cox bill yesterday. It's basically what many other Passport users with other cable systems have had for a while. Instead of going to one channel (channel 1), various channels in the 1000 - 1999 range each carry what were main menu headers on the old channel 1 system (e.g. 1005 = MyPrimetime, 1751 = HBO On DEMAND, etc.). There are some transport changes, too, including a ten-second jump back and skip-to-mark (15 minute increments, forward or back).

While this is all well and good, if they don't get the prices down for the movies, it's not enough to get me to keep my Cox DVR.

After a scan through clear QAM channels again tonight all the major network channels now have PSIP again and are being identified with OTA channel numbers again. i.e. 2.1 for CBS, 4.1 for NBC, etc. So looks like Cox OC has fixed whatever issue was introduced a few days ago...

My Cox DVR was supposed to record 4 shows tonight on CBS, but non recorded. When I tried a manual record, it said 702 was unrecordable. When I tuned to 702, I got the screen that says you are not authorized to view this channel, but seconds later I could view it fine.

Any idea what went wrong? I know I've seen this before, and I remember the early buggy days when this happened a lot. But I thought we were passed that now.:mad:

My Cox DVR was supposed to record 4 shows tonight on CBS, but non recorded. When I tried a manual record, it said 702 was unrecordable. When I tuned to 702, I got the screen that says you are not authorized to view this channel, but seconds later I could view it fine.

Any idea what went wrong? I know I've seen this before, and I remember the early buggy days when this happened a lot. But I thought we were passed that now.:mad:

Ouch, I felt like I was reading a post from a couple of years ago. :eek: I haven't seen the error in months, so hopefully it is a fluke. Did you try rebooting? Are you able to tune into other channels without issue?

I had to manually reset my box to get it working properly. I think it was the huge On Demand tweak that Cox recently implemented. Huge difference and a bit overwhelming. It looks like it might be an improvement though. Being able to advance by 15min increments is huge.

New DVR is probably related to this (http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/04-06-2009/0005001465&EDATE=) announcement in April of a new DVR. Highlights are:
* MoCA enabled to allow SD & HD multi-room viewing using existing coax. Clients are other non-DVR MoCA enabled boxes.

* Larger hard drive. Article doesn't say what size but I speculate 250GB.

* New EPG (no doubt to allow multi-room viewing options among other things).

From what I recall currently it costs $17/month for existing DVR, so wouldn't be surprised if this new DVR costs more than that but it could well be same price.


Well that's a huge bummer. I was hopeful they could do the multi-room viewing with the existing boxes with a software upgrade. I have a box that is almost totally full. Still nice to hear that they are possibly going to add this feature. Literally years after they made the initial claim. Maybe in another 8 years we will get external hard drive support.

Just remembered something. ABC really needs to remove there sub channels. A recent recording of an ABC show from Cox: Slightly over an hour of recording and the file size was 3.02 gigs. That's around a third of what it should be.

FWIW. I don't know anything about espn360.com but just thought I'd pass this Cox email information along in case you don't get Cox email updates:

Coming soon. Live sports at high speed.
ESPN360.com is coming to Cox.com.

Included FREE with your Cox High Speed Internet subscription!

As a valued Cox High Speed Internet customer, you will soon have access to ESPN360.com through Cox.com – 24/7 live, online sports coverage – at no additional cost!

With ESPN360.com you will soon enjoy live coverage of college football and basketball, major professional leagues, international tennis and soccer over the Internet. See up to 3,500 games a year. You can even watch up to 5 live streams at a time!

I had to manually reset my box to get it working properly. I think it was the huge On Demand tweak that Cox recently implemented. Huge difference and a bit overwhelming. It looks like it might be an improvement though. Being able to advance by 15min increments is huge.

The new updated On Demand feature is actually pretty slick. I played around with it quite a bit this morning. It's quite responsive and has a much better GUI. You can either go to channel 1 as before, but the GUI is already there when you get there. Nothing is loaded until you start digging down into the menus. Not only is navigation easier, but you can hit the designated number to go right to the given menu. As I mentioned before, you can also go directly to certain channels in the 1000s to go directly to the major menus (Prime Time, HBO, for-pay movies, etc.). In reality, when you choose any menu from within "channel 1" you are actually going to a channel in the 1000s anyway. In fact, when I watched a few minutes of the HD version of an ABC show, it actually showed it to be on channel 1036. That channel does not show up in the guide, so somehow it must put your particular request onto an open channel.

As mentioned, I still won't pay to watch the movies, but the free part is getting more and more content, so the better GUI may cause me to go in there more often. Of course, nothing is free, as we're paying for it in our fees.

Ouch, I felt like I was reading a post from a couple of years ago. :eek: I haven't seen the error in months, so hopefully it is a fluke. Did you try rebooting? Are you able to tune into other channels without issue?

I've reboot, so I'll see if this comes back. I hope not. No other channels seemed to have that issue.

I am a tv surfing junkie. I press my remote's channel up or channel down button until I find something interesting. I set the skipped channels to avoid junk stations. Starting today if I channel down from channel 2 or up from 793 (my highest non skipped channel) I get hundreds of channels from 1000 to 1400 that have never appeared before.

I just spent the last hour adding them to my skipped channels list.

Does anyone know what's going on? I live in Laguna Niguel.

rick1946, as pointed out already above the new Video On Demand setup now adds multiple channels to the lineup so you can direct tune to certain sections as a "shortcut" rather than going through channel 1 menu. In reality those channels have always been there, just they used to be hidden from the channel map before.

FWIW. I don't know anything about espn360.com but just thought I'd pass this Cox email information along in case you don't get Cox email updates:

That's kind of cool. Been curious about espn360

In reality those channels have always been there, just they used to be hidden from the channel map before.


Really? That's interesting. I didn't know that. Well, at least the changes they made really sped things up - one of my biggest gripes about the old system.

Really? That's interesting. I didn't know that. Well, at least the changes they made really sped things up - one of my biggest gripes about the old system. The first year I had a Tivo S3 channels 1001-1060 were actually in the CableCard channel map and unencrypted and I could browse through them and see VOD that neighbors were watching. Though as people ordered or dropped VOD the frequency assignments would change dynamically and jump to a different channel in that range. After some time the CableCard channel map was updated and those went away. At some point I even had them in my spreadsheet and from what I recall there were 60 channels with 10 per QAM for a total of 6 dedicated QAMS, but I think that number has gone down now. With the advent of SDV perhaps they are just part of SDV pool of QAMS now but I'm not sure how VOD & SDV systems interact. We do know they are encrypted now so I think the advent of SDV or system changes related to SDV enabled that somehow.

The first year I had a Tivo S3 channels 1001-1060 were actually in the CableCard channel map and unencrypted and I could browse through them and see VOD that neighbors were watching. Though as people ordered or dropped VOD the frequency assignments would change dynamically and jump to a different channel in that range. After some time the CableCard channel map was updated and those went away. At some point I even had them in my spreadsheet and from what I recall there were 60 channels with 10 per QAM for a total of 6 dedicated QAMS, but I think that number has gone down now. With the advent of SDV perhaps they are just part of SDV pool of QAMS now but I'm not sure how VOD & SDV systems interact. We do know they are encrypted now so I think the advent of SDV or system changes related to SDV enabled that somehow.

Thanks for the history. I wonder why Cox now shows the channels. I guess one could still just use the "channel 1" method, but it's nice to see the various menus in the guide, and not have to go through channel 1 first.

Tuning adapters delayed yet again!! ARGH!!!!!

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/09/25/cox-fix-for-tivo-users-delayed/22341/

Cox Communication’s plan to roll out the company’s first Motorola tuning adapters to certain cable customers in Orange County was delayed this week as the company instead rolled out new software for its video-on-demand service. Cox now hopes to offer the device before the end of the year.

That leaves TiVo users who watch Cox cable with a CableCARD will continue to miss on-demand movies and shows, plus any channel that has been turned into an on-demand-only channel.

This doesn’t affect TiVo users who also have a set-top box from the cable provider. Rather, those users with CableCARDs are unable to make requests to watch an on-demand show unless an adapter is involved.

Cable companies are moving to the new switched digital video technology in order to use the pipe to a customer’s home more efficiently. By reducing the number of nominal channels streamed 24/7, a cable company can add new high-definition channels to the stream. The other channels will still be there, but only broadcast when requested by the subscriber. To watch those, a TiVo user with a CableCARD will need this new adapter.

“We’ve maxed out on bandwidth,” said Lana Ong, spokeswoman for the Rancho Santa Margarita cable provider.

Tuning adapters delayed yet again!! ARGH!!!!!

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/09/25/cox-fix-for-tivo-users-delayed/22341/

Cox Communication’s plan to roll out the company’s first Motorola tuning adapters to certain cable customers in Orange County was delayed this week as the company instead rolled out new software for its video-on-demand service. Cox now hopes to offer the device before the end of the year.

That leaves TiVo users who watch Cox cable with a CableCARD will continue to miss on-demand movies and shows, plus any channel that has been turned into an on-demand-only channel.

This doesn’t affect TiVo users who also have a set-top box from the cable provider. Rather, those users with CableCARDs are unable to make requests to watch an on-demand show unless an adapter is involved.

Cable companies are moving to the new switched digital video technology in order to use the pipe to a customer’s home more efficiently. By reducing the number of nominal channels streamed 24/7, a cable company can add new high-definition channels to the stream. The other channels will still be there, but only broadcast when requested by the subscriber. To watch those, a TiVo user with a CableCARD will need this new adapter.

“We’ve maxed out on bandwidth,” said Lana Ong, spokeswoman for the Rancho Santa Margarita cable provider.

they still will miss ondemand with the SDV adapter.

Tuning adapters delayed yet again!! ARGH!!!!!

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/09/25/cox-fix-for-tivo-users-delayed/22341/

Cox Communication’s plan to roll out the company’s first Motorola tuning adapters to certain cable customers in Orange County was delayed this week as the company instead rolled out new software for its video-on-demand service. Cox now hopes to offer the device before the end of the year.

That leaves TiVo users who watch Cox cable with a CableCARD will continue to miss on-demand movies and shows, plus any channel that has been turned into an on-demand-only channel.

This doesn’t affect TiVo users who also have a set-top box from the cable provider. Rather, those users with CableCARDs are unable to make requests to watch an on-demand show unless an adapter is involved.

Cable companies are moving to the new switched digital video technology in order to use the pipe to a customer’s home more efficiently. By reducing the number of nominal channels streamed 24/7, a cable company can add new high-definition channels to the stream. The other channels will still be there, but only broadcast when requested by the subscriber. To watch those, a TiVo user with a CableCARD will need this new adapter.

“We’ve maxed out on bandwidth,” said Lana Ong, spokeswoman for the Rancho Santa Margarita cable provider.Yeah. I'm starting to question why I pay the same as my neighbors who have 20 more HD channels than I do.

Called Cox and complained enough that they gave me a $40 one-time credit as a "goodwill gesture". Basically not admitting fault so if it gets delayed again, don't expect another credit.

At least I got something. Hope the fellow Cablecard customers can do the same.

Surprise, surprise, VOD updates took priority over free tuning adapters for customers who don't rent Cox equipment and don't watch Cox VOD, go figure.

Surprise, surprise, VOD updates took priority over free tuning adapters for customers who don't rent Cox equipment and don't watch Cox VOD, go figure.

Yeah, if I had known the On Demand additions were coming at a cost of the tuning adapters, at least in terms of timing, I would not have touted it so much. :eek:

I have 4 TVs in my home, all HD. Two of the TVs use HD DVR boxes... no problem. The other two have the Cox cable hooked up directly and then I scan for both analog & digital. I get the traditional LA area HD channels some times, i.e., 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, and 13.1. Problem is that these frequencies on both of the TVs don't stay put or stick. The same programming winds up moving around the digital spectrum, e.g., to channels 85.2, 86.2, 31.2, 85.3,31.1, etc. After a few weeks (maybe) the local LA area HD assigned frequencies (see traditional channels above) return. Then then change again.

Has anyone had this experience? If so, why is this occuring? Is there any solution to this constant changing and scanning?

I called Cox about this and their 2nd leveltech. acted dumb about it and blamed it on the local area networks.

Help...

Best Regards,
Larry

I have 4 TVs in my home, all HD. Two of the TVs use HD DVR boxes... no problem. The other two have the Cox cable hooked up directly and then I scan for both analog & digital. I get the traditional LA area HD channels some times, i.e., 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, and 13.1. Problem is that these frequencies on both of the TVs don't stay put or stick. The same programming winds up moving around the digital spectrum, e.g., to channels 85.2, 86.2, 31.2, 85.3,31.1, etc. After a few weeks (maybe) the local LA area HD assigned frequencies (see traditional channels above) return. Then then change again.

Has anyone had this experience? If so, why is this occuring? Is there any solution to this constant changing and scanning?

I called Cox about this and their 2nd leveltech. acted dumb about it and blamed it on the local area networks.

Help...

Best Regards,
Larry Normally these local HD channels don't move around that often (in fact for years they did not move at all), but lately there have been a lot of changes happening at headend with new channel additions, SDV deployment, etc. so these have been moving around. Recently these changes broke PSIP information (which tells your QAM tuners channel names & numbers among other things) which is why you weren't getting the "friendly" names like 2.1 etc. However that was fixed a couple of days ago (last I checked anyway) so unless the channels move around again you should be good to go for a while following a re-scan.

Thank you, I will try another re-scan. For NBC los angeles, other than 4.1, what is the current HD channel assignment for this on Cox NBC? I am using 82.6 which is SD digital, not HD. Any help will be appreciated.

Best Regards,
Larry


Normally these local HD channels don't move around that often (in fact for years they did not move at all), but lately there have been a lot of changes happening at headend with new channel additions, SDV deployment, etc. so these have been moving around. Recently these changes broke PSIP information (which tells your QAM tuners channel names & numbers among other things) which is why you weren't getting the "friendly" names like 2.1 etc. However that was fixed a couple of days ago (last I checked anyway) so unless the channels move around again you should be good to go for a while following a re-scan.

When you re-scan 4.1 should become the HD version. Just checking now via Slingbox I see that NBC is currently at 657MHz = RF channel 101.

Thanks, I re-scanned and the traditional channel designations are all back, i.e., 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 7.1, etc. Thanks for your help. I hope the Cox can keep this all fixed and not move it around anymore. Lot's of wasted time to keep re-scanned and reprogramming in favorites.

Best Regards,
Larry

When you re-scan 4.1 should become the HD version. Just checking now via Slingbox I see that NBC is currently at 657MHz = RF channel 101.

For those with Motorola boxes how is the behavior of SDV channels recently? Is there still a timeout of an SDV channel after a period of inactivity and if so how long is it? Do DVR boxes with background tuner on an SDV channel still lose the buffer if left alone for a while? When first rolled out there were some complaints here about the timeouts but I haven't heard anything later thus I suspect the timeouts were either increased or eliminated for now? But eliminating timeouts would defeat purpose of SDV especially if bandwidth is tapped out.
If you are not sure channels like 717 & 749 for example are SDV channels you can experiment with. Thanks for any feedback.

For those with Motorola boxes how is the behavior of SDV channels recently? Is there still a timeout of an SDV channel after a period of inactivity and if so how long is it? Do DVR boxes with background tuner on an SDV channel still lose the buffer if left alone for a while? When first rolled out there were some complaints here about the timeouts but I haven't heard anything later thus I suspect the timeouts were either increased or eliminated for now? But eliminating timeouts would defeat purpose of SDV especially if bandwidth is tapped out.
If you are not sure channels like 717 & 749 for example are SDV channels you can experiment with. Thanks for any feedback.

Well, since I do most of my TV viewing on the TiVo HD, I don't watch the bedroom TV with the Cox DVR too much. Further, as I am accustomed to not having the SDV channels on the TiVo HD, I don't often watch them period. In any event, I just played around with some SDV channels and didn't see any strange behavior. The buffers remained full in seemingly any scenario, and in the limited time I watched a couple SDV channels, I didn't see any popup messages. I'll keep the DVR tuned to one SDV channel and one non-SDV channel for a while (30+ minutes) and report back.

Okay, it's been nearly three hours and both channels remain as they were (one SDV and one non-SDV). I guess the timeouts are still disabled. Strange.

I live in San Diego and recently helped a friend in Laguna Niguel get setup with all three Cox products, to my dismay, the Moto HD DVR they hooked up seemed outdated, it only had DVI or Component outputs. You don't have the SA 8300HD's? He's going to be updating the TV to a newer flat panel and an HDMI surround receiver this holiday season and I'd like to have everything running through the receiver with HDMI cables. Also the GUI on it seemed very sluggish. I couldn't figure out how to jump to another day without having to scoll to the right hour by hour.

Any insight would be appreciated...

Lon

can you see the frequencies of SDV channels in the motorola setop box diagnostics menu D06 page?

im wondering because time warner cable is going to deploy sdv in my motorola system that has iguide and it is a 870MHz system.

the vendor twc has picked for twc dallas is BigBand.

I live in San Diego and recently helped a friend in Laguna Niguel get setup with all three Cox products, to my dismay, the Moto HD DVR they hooked up seemed outdated, it only had DVI or Component outputs. You don't have the SA 8300HD's? He's going to be updating the TV to a newer flat panel and an HDMI surround receiver this holiday season and I'd like to have everything running through the receiver with HDMI cables. Also the GUI on it seemed very sluggish. I couldn't figure out how to jump to another day without having to scoll to the right hour by hour.

Any insight would be appreciated...

Lon

Hi Lon - as you mentioned, Cox San Diego uses the Scientific Atlantic DVRs (8240HD, 8300HD, etc.) with the SARA GUI, which is quite different from our Motorola DCH3416 DVRs with Pioneer Passport. In addition to the different GUI, San Diegans can add external drive support via the eSATA connector.

If the DVR Cox OC gave your friend does not have HDMI, take it back and get the DCH3416. It is a silver DVR. There is a new DVR coming, click here (http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/04-06-2009/0005001465&EDATE=) for more information, but we are not sure when it is coming.

By the way, to navigate to a different day in the guide, simply enter the number of days you want to jump and then the right arrow (e.g. press "2" and then right arrow, and you'll jump two days in the future). Keep in mind the guide data is limited to seven days in the future, and six hours in the past.

can you see the frequencies of SDV channels in the motorola setop box diagnostics menu D06 page?

im wondering because time warner cable is going to deploy sdv in my motorola system that has iguide and it is a 870MHz system.

the vendor twc has picked for twc dallas is BigBand.

Hi Kevin - take a look at this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16240058#post16240058) and the ensuing few posts. It appears the SDV channels are listed as "CH: 65535" and 705 MHz.

My Cox DVR was supposed to record 4 shows tonight on CBS, but non recorded. When I tried a manual record, it said 702 was unrecordable. When I tuned to 702, I got the screen that says you are not authorized to view this channel, but seconds later I could view it fine.
Same here. I'd been gone all week (when I guess the new On-Demand change went in) and lost a few CBS shows 'till I got in and realized this bug had managed to sneak back in.

Thanks phdeane,
I know we're supposed to be getting some updated software and multiroom converters too, but I won't hold my breath. I'll have them exchange it and thanks for the tip on jumping ahead.

Lon

Hi Kevin - take a look at this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16240058#post16240058) and the ensuing few posts. It appears the SDV channels are listed as "CH: 65535" and 705 MHz.

does it only say 705MHz even if the SDV channel is not on 705MHz?

does it only say 705MHz even if the SDV channel is not on 705MHz?

Do you mean even if it is not on an SDV channel? If so, no, the frequency changed depending on which non-SDV channel I was on.

Do you mean even if it is not on an SDV channel? If so, no, the frequency changed depending on which non-SDV channel I was on.

i mean an sdv channel on another SDV frequency. EX:711MHz

EDIT: can you post a screen shot of a SDV channel in the diagnostics menu.

i mean an sdv channel on another SDV frequency. EX:711MHz

EDIT: can you post a screen shot of a SDV channel in the diagnostics menu.

Non SDV (Channel 11):

http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae203/phdeane/non_sdv_ch11.jpg



SDV Channel:

http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae203/phdeane/sdv.jpg

I live in San Diego and recently helped a friend in Laguna Niguel get setup with all three Cox products, to my dismay, the Moto HD DVR they hooked up seemed outdated, it only had DVI or Component outputs. You don't have the SA 8300HD's? He's going to be updating the TV to a newer flat panel and an HDMI surround receiver this holiday season and I'd like to have everything running through the receiver with HDMI cables. Also the GUI on it seemed very sluggish. I couldn't figure out how to jump to another day without having to scoll to the right hour by hour.

Any insight would be appreciated...

Lon

To skip exactly one day forward or back, hit the FF or FR button on the remote.

To skip exactly one day forward or back, hit the FF or FR button on the remote.

Yes, that'll work, but the OP didn't give a specified number of days to jump. Further, it's better to get in the habit of the number-plus-right-arrow method, as it works for all situations. :)

Guess what, the tuning adapter for TiVo users has been "delayed."

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/09/25/cox-fix-for-tivo-users-delayed/22341/

Imagine my surprise.

Guess what, the tuning adapter for TiVo users has been "delayed."

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/09/25/cox-fix-for-tivo-users-delayed/22341/

Imagine my surprise. Yeah, that already was discussed a few posts ago (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17245958#post17245958) in this thread.

Whoops, sorry. Somehow "go to first new post" has failed me.

Whoops, sorry. Somehow "go to first new post" has failed me.

Yes, the "go to first new post" quick link can be most unreliable.:)

Nevertheless, since us TiVo users are a little perturbed about this, having it mentioned again is a good thing - you never know what Cox associates may be lurking around here...;)

Not surprising, but good to know:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/09/30/only-443-000-cablecards-depoyed-into-consumers-equipment/

I hate to beat a dead horse here but I must comment about the On Demand QAM situation again. I have been waiting literally years and years to record a particular movie in HD. This is a movie that isn't available on Blu-Ray and probably will never be offered on that format. Had this movie been available 2 months ago for On Demand I would have been able to get it no problem. Now I see it on that menu just mocking me. You would think for $200+ a month I would be able to record this program. Guess not.

Was this really a problem Cox? Were people recording On Demand shows from your system and selling bootlegs in Bangladesh?

Anyone record Survivor this past Thursday on CBSHD (702)? My recording on a TiVo S3 was completely trashed with artifacting throughout and resulting in a 48 min partial recording. A couple of hours later a recording of "The Mentalist" on same channel and same TiVo is fine, so I'm pretty sure it was a transmission issue.
I know a few posts ago a couple of users mentioned issues on CBSHD as well, so looks like Cox is messing something up here on that channel.

I ended up watching the episode on cbs.com instead and was impressed at the quality and how few commercials there were and then started to wonder why I pay $80+/month for cable TV... then I remembered Lakers, NFL, etc.

This is not a Cox-related issue per se but for those that watch The O'Reilly Factor (please no political comments here) have you noticed it has switched to postage size picture? i.e. Fox News is generating SD version from 16:9 HD version and thus adding bars to top and bottom (in addition to the normal sidebars) in order to preserve original 16:9 ratio. Of course one can use TV zoom to get to full screen, but I just thought it was interesting that there is no native SD feed anymore for that show.

Question does anyone get channel 712? Should be KDOC HD but it just goes from 711 to 713. This article (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/game-state-cal-2002304-kdoc-broadcast) though over a year old mentions "The KDOC-HD feed of the game will be carried on either cable channel 456 or 431 on all Time Warner systems in OC; Cox will carry the HD feed on cable channel 712 on all OC systems."
So does that mean it existed a year ago but not anymore, anyone know?

My recording on my Cox DVR of Survivor was also the worst I have ever seen. It improved at about 8:55 and then CSI was fine. This best never happen again.

KABCDT "HD" is a joke. Most 1 hour episodes are now 3GB or less (a few exceptions here and there - Dancing With The Stars looks like they step up the bit rate and get it to about 4.5GB/hour). Compare that to KTTVDT (Fox HD) recordings which are also 720p but double in size to give you an idea of how badly bit starved ABC recordings are. It's too bad since there are several shows on that network that I like, including the new FlashForward. It's just embarassing they throw up that logo on the bottom right of the screen and for the whole show one can see artifacting around the logo since the compression is so bad... Good thing ABCHD doesn't carry any sports I like to watch lately.

This is not a Cox-related issue per se but for those that watch The O'Reilly Factor (please no political comments here) have you noticed it has switched to postage size picture? i.e. Fox News is generating SD version from 16:9 HD version and thus adding bars to top and bottom (in addition to the normal sidebars) in order to preserve original 16:9 ratio. Of course one can use TV zoom to get to full screen, but I just thought it was interesting that there is no native SD feed anymore for that show.

KABCDT "HD" is a joke. Most 1 hour episodes are now 3GB or less (a few exceptions here and there - *Dancing With The Stars* looks like they step up the bit rate and get it to about 4.5GB/hour).

Okay, you said no political comments, but how about giving you a hard time about this one, *Dancing With the Stars?* :eek:

Anyway, all kidding aside, it's funny you mention the O'Reilly Factor. I did, indeed, notice the letterboxing. I thought perhaps it has always been that way and I just didn't notice it before. :o I have seen other shows / networks do that in the past, particularly when they are trying to now use the additional real estate afforded them with widescreen. I've been watching the show for quite some time, so I'll have to watch more closely to see if they are, indeed, using the sides for more information. Of course, they could do it like CNBC HD does, in that they use the sides for more information, but the middle, "SD-part" of the screen is the same on the HD and SD channels.

KABCDT "HD" is a joke. Most 1 hour episodes are now 3GB or less (a few exceptions here and there - Dancing With The Stars looks like they step up the bit rate and get it to about 4.5GB/hour). Compare that to KTTVDT (Fox HD) recordings which are also 720p but double in size to give you an idea of how badly bit starved ABC recordings are. It's too bad since there are several shows on that network that I like, including the new FlashForward. It's just embarassing they throw up that logo on the bottom right of the screen and for the whole show one can see artifacting around the logo since the compression is so bad... Good thing ABCHD doesn't carry any sports I like to watch lately.

guess you aren't an SC fan then? It wasn't too bad tonight, though. Well, actually, I only watched a little as my normal "USC College Football HD" season pass failed me. I looked it over and for the life of me cannot figure out what I did wrong with the season pass. It has recorded all previous USC games in HD just fine.

Question does anyone get channel 712? Should be KDOC HD but it just goes from 711 to 713. This article (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/game-state-cal-2002304-kdoc-broadcast) though over a year old mentions "The KDOC-HD feed of the game will be carried on either cable channel 456 or 431 on all Time Warner systems in OC; Cox will carry the HD feed on cable channel 712 on all OC systems."
So does that mean it existed a year ago but not anymore, anyone know?

I don't recall seeing it before, but it definitely isn't there now. Both this (http://ww2.cox.com/residential/orangecounty/tv/channel-lineup.cox#14) and this (http://ww2.cox.com/wcm/en/residential/datasheet/orangecounty/090909_channel_OC.pdf) [warning! PDF] link do not show KDOC-HD.

I've been watching the show for quite some time, so I'll have to watch more closely to see if they are, indeed, using the sides for more information. Of course, they could do it like CNBC HD does, in that they use the sides for more information, but the middle, "SD-part" of the screen is the same on the HD and SD channels. It is something new. I usually have The Factor on my portable player (which can play SD mpeg2 as is) which I take to the gym (for last few years) and now it has black bars on top/bottom which weren't there before. I can't watch any serious shows while working out so these news/commentary shows are good for casual watching. Problem is O'Reilly takes much more time off these days - almost every Friday...
The real sad part: 1 hour O'Reilly Factor SD = 1.5GB, 1 hour of FlashForward "HD" = 3 GB. So "HD" version is only 2x size of an SD show... pitiful.

It is something new. I usually have The Factor on my portable player (which can play SD mpeg2 as is) which I take to the gym (for last few years) and now it has black bars on top/bottom which weren't there before. I can't watch any serious shows while working out so these news/commentary shows are good for casual watching. Problem is O'Reilly takes much more time off these days - almost every Friday...
The real sad part: 1 hour O'Reilly Factor SD = 1.5GB, 1 hour of FlashForward "HD" = 3 GB. So "HD" version is only 2x size of an SD show... pitiful.

Yes, O'Reilly ended his radio show a while back and has now cut down on TV some, too. He was out for an extended period a few weeks back. When he returned, his voice was pretty bad - not sure what's going on there. Okay, since I'm already OT, I do like the new FlashForward (or is it FLASHFORWARD?) show. It's not quite LOST, but is keeping my attention nonetheless. Too bad on the PQ, though. I really want Fox News HD, but wonder how much better it will be than SD, at least at this compression binge Cox and/or the broadcasters are going on.

Question does anyone get channel 712? Should be KDOC HD but it just goes from 711 to 713. This article (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/game-state-cal-2002304-kdoc-broadcast) though over a year old mentions "The KDOC-HD feed of the game will be carried on either cable channel 456 or 431 on all Time Warner systems in OC; Cox will carry the HD feed on cable channel 712 on all OC systems."
So does that mean it existed a year ago but not anymore, anyone know?
KDOC is at 710, not 712. It's still there, and it's listed there at the first link that phdeane provided.

KDOC is at 710, not 712. It's still there, and it's listed there at the first link that phdeane provided.

That's KOCE not KDOC.

That's KOCE not KDOC.That'll teach me to read the thread on a portable device instead of a big screen. Sorry about that.

My recording on my Cox DVR of Survivor was also the worst I have ever seen. It improved at about 8:55 and then CSI was fine. This best never happen again.

Had the problem as well in Foothill Ranch. Ended up buying the HD episode on my AppleTV. I should submit the receipt to Cox... :)

Stations really need to stop having subchannels. I recorded a show on NBC tonight that was a little over an hour and it came in at only 5.31GB. NBC and ABC have 2 subchannels each. Its no wonder their picture quality is the most lacking. Its a shame. They both had stellar HD quality when they first started broadcasting in that format. In fact NBC's Leno and ABC's weekend movies were what made me adopt HD and buy an HDTV.

CBS and FOX seem to be the only stations still interested in offering a good product. I don't include The CW because of all their on-screen crap. KCAL and UPN also don't count since they rarely air anything in HD.

Had the problem as well in Foothill Ranch. Ended up buying the HD episode on my AppleTV. I should submit the receipt to Cox... :)

Both my boxes in Irvine had problems recording Survivor also. So did a friend in Laguna Niguel. I also bought it through iTunes.:mad:

Both my boxes in Irvine had problems recording Survivor also. So did a friend in Laguna Niguel. I also bought it through iTunes.:mad: No need to buy it. The free cbs.com episode quality was actually very good and with very few/short commercials.

No need to buy it. The free cbs.com episode quality was actually very good and with very few/short commercials.

I've used cbs.com, and it's not bad at all. But in the main TV room with the big HDTV, I have an AppleTV, and nothing that will do CBS/Hulu, etc. just yet. And since the whole family likes Survivor, it's best on the big TV. I guess I should hack the AppleTV to have internet access one day. :D

No need to buy it. The free cbs.com episode quality was actually very good and with very few/short commercials.

I've used cbs.com, and it's not bad at all. But in the main TV room with the big HDTV, I have an AppleTV, and nothing that will do CBS/Hulu, etc. just yet. And since the whole family likes Survivor, it's best on the big TV. I guess I should hack the AppleTV to have internet access one day. :D

It's kind of funny; due to the decreasing quality of Cox, some of us are going back to watching shows on a smaller screen with commercials. ;)

It just goes to show we'll put up with such to not have to deal with the compression artifacting.

CBS is one of the few quality broadcasters left with only a single HD stream being broadcast and they use a good chunk of the available 19 Mbps. Aha, that's why Cox has trouble with it, they no longer have much experience getting high quality HD streams fed to them! ;)

CBS is one of the few quality broadcasters left with only a single HD stream being broadcast and they use a good chunk of the available 19 Mbps. Aha, that's why Cox has trouble with it, they no longer have much experience getting high quality HD streams fed to them! ;)

either that or they don't want us to see how great quality HD on cable can (or did) look.

Cox has moved some clear QAM channels again. 13-1 moved, and 4-1 moved down one location (my PVR gets 4-2 where 4-1 used to be). 5.2 now has a PSIP. KCET-HD moved from 127-915 to 115-815, and KCET's sub channels were added to 115-812, -813, and -814.

Its amazing to me that Satellite actually has superior channel lineups AND superior picture quality now. I could understand the channel lineup being better but never in a million years did I feel it would cant up and pass cable in PQ. In the past I heard the horror stories of HD-Lite and I thought to myself "well, I never have to worry about that with Cox". Sadly I was mistaken.

After seeing all the comments plus the product Cox is putting out, is there anywhere to go to see good HD TV anymore? Or is Blu-ray the only thing that looks really good anymore?

Depressing to see how our picture has degraded over the years. HD through Cox was great at one time. Now it is just a notch above SD. Too bad.

Bob in Mission Viejo

...just found out my employer has a perk with DirecTV, $40 off your bill monthly on top of whatever promo's you schmooze out of DirecTV directly.

Very tempting to jump ship, tivo or no...free tv > tivo

...just found out my employer has a perk with DirecTV, $40 off your bill monthly on top of whatever promo's you schmooze out of DirecTV directly.

Very tempting to jump ship, tivo or no...free tv > tivo


If you are all about the DVR, I see this:

Cox DVR > TiVo HD > Dish DVR > TiVo HD > DirecTV DVR > TiVo HD


If you are all about PQ, I see this:

Cox DVR > TiVo HD > Dish DVR > TiVo HD > DirecTV DVR

After seeing all the comments plus the product Cox is putting out, is there anywhere to go to see good HD TV anymore? Or is Blu-ray the only thing that looks really good anymore?

Depressing to see how our picture has degraded over the years. HD through Cox was great at one time. Now it is just a notch above SD. Too bad.

Bob in Mission Viejo

Both DirecTV and Dish have great HD, as does FiOS, but that's not a current (if ever?) option for us. Regardless, Blu-ray has and will continue to have the best PQ for quite some time.

And, yes, it's very depressing...:(

If you are all about the DVR, I see this:

Cox DVR > TiVo HD > Dish DVR > TiVo HD > DirecTV DVR > TiVo HD


If you are all about PQ, I see this:

Cox DVR > TiVo HD > Dish DVR > TiVo HD > DirecTV DVR

I'm not sure I understand your diagram. ">" means "greater than" or "better than." So your DVR comparison is Cox DVR is better than TiVo HD which is better than Dish DVR which is better than TiVo HD, etc. TiVo HD shouldn't be on a list more than once.

Could you please explain what you mean?

I'm not sure I understand your diagram. ">" means "greater than" or "better than." So your DVR comparison is Cox DVR is better than TiVo HD which is better than Dish DVR which is better than TiVo HD, etc. TiVo HD shouldn't be on a list more than once.

Could you please explain what you mean?

No problem. The ">" does indeed mean "greater than" in the mathematical sense, but is used within AVS to mean succession or sequence. In other words, in the "all about the DVR" part, bubu started with a Cox DVR, then got a TiVo HD DVR, then got a Dish DVR, and so on.

Perhaps what was lost in my explanation (and thus intended message to bubu) was that if bubu's number one priority is the DVR itself, then he may try the DirecTV DVR, but not like it as much as the TiVo HD DVR, thus returning to the TiVo HD DVR. On the other hand, if PQ is paramount (my second scenario), then his succession will end with the DirecTV DVR.

I hope that makes sense. :)

After seeing all the comments plus the product Cox is putting out, is there anywhere to go to see good HD TV anymore? Or is Blu-ray the only thing that looks really good anymore?

Depressing to see how our picture has degraded over the years. HD through Cox was great at one time. Now it is just a notch above SD. Too bad.

Bob in Mission Viejo

The baseball playoffs on TBS HD look pretty good to me. Would you agree?

My in-laws have DirecTV HD with a Toshiba 46" LCD and I'm not too impressed with the PQ, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to the TV. I don't see too many Toshibas high on the ratings charts.

No problem. The ">" does indeed mean "greater than" in the mathematical sense, but is used within AVS to mean succession or sequence. In other words, in the "all about the DVR" part, bubu started with a Cox DVR, then got a TiVo HD DVR, then got a Dish DVR, and so on.

Perhaps what was lost in my explanation (and thus intended message to bubu) was that if bubu's number one priority is the DVR itself, then he may try the DirecTV DVR, but not like it as much as the TiVo HD DVR, thus returning to the TiVo HD DVR. On the other hand, if PQ is paramount (my second scenario), then his succession will end with the DirecTV DVR.

I hope that makes sense. :)

That makes it much clearer. I am a TiVo HD user and would love to switch to DirecTV or Dish, but the poorer quality DVRs from those services has held me back. However, with fact that all of the new Cox channels are unavailable to me on my TiVo HD, it might be worth it to switch for all of the extra programming.

(I know, I know...tuning adapters will be here someday.)

Finally replaced my tired old Sammy DLP with a new Vizio LCD and picked up a Sony BD Player and Sony Reciever to go along with it.

I had been using Component cables to run vid TV signals to the Sammy thru the reciever from my Moto 3416 STB with optical for the sound to the reciever and then running HDMI for vid from my old DVD player direct to the Sammy and with an optical cable to the reciever for aud.

I was pleased that ALL 3 of my new components, the HDTV, the BD Player and the Reciever had HDMI connections all around!

GREAT...I had arrived and could put behind me the "nest of cables" that inhabits all older Home Entertainment Centers!

NOT!!!!

I eagerly connected everything with 3 HDMI cables and turned on the system.

The HDMI connection from the BD Player out to the HDMI Input jack on the Reciever and then by another HDMI cable from the reciever's TV Out jack to the HDMI #1 Input jack on the HDTV worked fine right out of the box.

However, the connections from the STB to the HDTV were less successful.

I first ran an optical cable from the optical out on the HDTV to the Optical in on the Reciever to run the Surround sound speakers.

But, when I ran the HDMI cable from the STB to the HDTV's #2 HDMI in jack I got a GIANT BLUE BOX on my screen which kindly informed me that:

"THE HD CONTENT PROTECTION (HDCP) HAS BEEN COMPROMISED. PLEASE USE THE Y,Pb,Pr (COMPONENT) OUTPUTS FOR YOUR HD CONNECTION"

In researching this on the Net, I found out that even though my Vizio HDTV was "HDCP Compliant" the Moto STB wasn't "shaking hands" with the HDTV....it thought I was using some devise to illegally copy some movie or something!

I called Cox Tech Support and was told that I needed to change out my Moto DCH 3416 STB for a Moto DCT 6416! This STB would allow the use of HDMI to hook up to my HDTV.

What experience do any of you have with this scenario? Is the 6416 the "Magic Box" that WILL shake hands successfully with my HDTV?

Thanks for your help.....

PS: Using Component Cables (all 5....3 vid and 2 aud) to connect the STB with the HDTV works OK and even though the literature all says that it is VERY difficult to see any difference in the PQ or AQ between the two connection methods, it still irks me that I can't use HDMI, so I want to proceed in trying to resolve this issue.

PPS: One more question: Which Moto STB is the "Box of choise" right now for best overall performance and least glitches? One thing I will say positive about COX OC is that they are happy to switch out STBs anytime you want, for any, or even no reason, without a bunch of flak from them. Being that that is the case, since they seem to have several available, it would be nice to know which one is the best (for me, of course, not having any HDCP issues is a key item!)

What experience do any of you have with this scenario? Is the 6416 the "Magic Box" that WILL shake hands successfully with my HDTV?

Thanks for your help.....

PPS: One more question: Which Moto STB is the "Box of choise" right now for best overall performance and least glitches? One thing I will say positive about COX OC is that they are happy to switch out STBs anytime you want, for any, or even no reason, without a bunch of flak from them. Being that that is the case, since they seem to have several available, it would be nice to know which one is the best (for me, of course, not having any HDCP issues is a key item!)

I've been using the DCH3416 for quite some time. I've switched it to various TVs and my projector and have not had handshaking issues. That said, I've heard that the moto boxes do have their fair share of handshaking issues; I guess I've just been fortunate.

Does your AVR accept HDMI? If so, you should run everything through it and from there to the TV. You are using optical, so thus not getting the lossless sound from your BDP. Also, try changing the order of powering on devices. Does that work? I would also turn off any CEC controls in the TV (if available) or otherwise, if applicable. In the end, component works just fine if you have to. I use it on one of my boxes.

The DCH3416 is what I consider to be the best DVR Cox has offered yet. There are other models, but I like it best - at least until the new rumored boxes arrive.

edit: upon reread, I see you are going BDP > AVR > HDTV, so you are good there. It's unclear as to whether you have also tried DVR > AVR > HDTV.

I've been using the DCH3416 for quite some time. I've switched it to various TVs and my projector and have not had handshaking issues. That said, I've heard that the moto boxes do have their fair share of handshaking issues; I guess I've just been fortunate.



Same here. I've got two DCH3416's, and they have been hooked up to three different HDTVs through HDMI without any issues (HP DLP, Sharp LCD, and a Panasonic Plasma).

As you will recall, I have been having serious HDCP compliance issues which have forced me to use Component vs HDMI connections thereby compromising both PQ and AQ.

On another Forum, I read that it can be vital when using equipment that includes HDCP that the the correct turn on sequence is used.

For example, it said that the HDTV should be turned on FIRST and then the STB. The reason is that the HDTV must be ready to accept the "handshake" being sent out from the STB when the STB sends it. If the STB is turned on first, the handshake it sends to the HDTV is not returned immediately (cuz the TV isn't on yet) and therefore fails= the fatal error notice appears telling you you must use Component and not HDMI!

I am at work so can't test this theory until I get home?

I am using a Harmony Universal Remote and one of the settings you have available to customize is the sequence of power ons for the various equipment you are controlling with it.

Could the fix for this issue be as simple as this? Anyone agree or disagree with this explanation?

The baseball playoffs on TBS HD look pretty good to me. Would you agree?

My in-laws have DirecTV HD with a Toshiba 46" LCD and I'm not too impressed with the PQ, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to the TV. I don't see too many Toshibas high on the ratings charts.

I actually have been impressed overall with the picture from TBS. Better than I thought it would be. Also done very well is the surround sound by TBS on the games. One of the best I have heard for baseball.

When Abreu hit the ball off the Green Monster in the ninth yesterday, the noise came thru the rears very loud and clear (a metallic bang). Or could have been the sound of the hearts of Red Sox Nation bursting :) Crowd noise has been thru the rears on all the telecasts I have seen. Angel Stadium was rocking Friday night and sounded great.

Still had a few breakups, but less than for prime time TV.

Bob

"Originally Posted by chuckip:
"But, when I ran the HDMI cable from the STB to the HDTV's #2 HDMI in jack I got a GIANT BLUE BOX on my screen which kindly informed me that:"

I run mine this way and have no problems, STB optical cable to receiver, STB HDMI to TV. That way I can use either TV or Receiver as my sound source (I leave Receiver off much of the time, depends on what I am watching). Seems to work good. But I have the Moto DCT 6416 box.

I also use Harmony Remote. No issues with Handshake. Maybe the power on sequence is the answer, I do not remember which my Harmony powers on first, would have to check, but think TV goes on first, then STB or Receiver (which doesn't matter in my case since I do not use Receiver for picture from STB, only use Receiver for Blu-ray player picture and sound via HDMI).

Bob

I actually have been impressed overall with the picture from TBS. Better than I thought it would be. Also done very well is the surround sound by TBS on the games. One of the best I have heard for baseball.

When Abreu hit the ball off the Green Monster in the ninth yesterday, the noise came thru the rears very loud and clear (a metallic bang). Or could have been the sound of the hearts of Red Sox Nation bursting :) Crowd noise has been thru the rears on all the telecasts I have seen. Angel Stadium was rocking Friday night and sounded great.

Still had a few breakups, but less than for prime time TV.

Bob


Yeah, my heart just aches for the Red Sox and their beloved supporters.

BTW, I've just been using the TV's speakers. I don't really have room for a lot of external speakers, so what would you say is a "minimum" sound setup that takes advantage of the fidelity of audio coming from the HD channels? Do the sound bars plus wireless speakers work well?

LMK5

*For example, it said that the HDTV should be turned on FIRST and then the STB.* The reason is that the HDTV must be ready to accept the "handshake" being sent out from the STB when the STB sends it. If the STB is turned on first, the handshake it sends to the HDTV is not returned immediately (cuz the TV isn't on yet) and therefore fails= the fatal error notice appears telling you you must use Component and not HDMI!

Could the fix for this issue be as simple as this? Anyone agree or disagree with this explanation?

Apparently I do agree: ;)


Also, try changing the order of powering on devices. Does that work?

...back with COX, for now anyway.

The install was clean, the tech even fished 4 lines through existing conduit. Very impressed overall with the quality & attention to detail.

I received the VIP 612 HD DVR receivers. The receivers were "refurbished"...but more like used, with cosmetic damage. One of the four receivers was permanently rebooting. The receivers were decently built, but had major drawbacks which made me "weasel" out of the 24 month contract (more on how that was done later).

The Good:
Solid, quiet, good ergonomics, RF Remote, Crisp channel guide (on an HD TV)
Very responsive UI. The HD quality was miles above COX, but varied quite a bit from channel to channel. No pixilation of any kind. Video On demand was very good...and last but not least HD channel GALORE! Probably 3x the amount COX is currently offering. Built in Sling functionality! Lots of HD HBO's...Showtime's, etc...not just the East & West feeds.

The Bad:
The DVR is atrocious. The "Dish Pass" recording scheduler rivals that of what cox offered 5 years ago in their first gen UI. Its only saving grace is that you can bypass it completely and use a web interface @ dishnetwork.com to schedule all your recording. It is actually a fairly slick web interface. The hard drive expansion option which they charge $40 to activate per receiver is really an archiving solution. You can only record to the 30 hour HighDef hard drive in the DVR itself. You have to off-load shows from the DVR's drive to the external hard drive for extra storage, if you want to play a recording on the external hard drive...you have to first copy it back to the built in DVR hard drive. Permanently locks you into using either 480p, 720p, or 1080i...no "native" feed support.

If you do not need DVR functions, then DISH is a great deal, not to mention the enormous international channel content Dish Networks saving grace on the DVR scene is a new receiver due out any month now...the VIP 922 which won "best of show" @ CES 2009. After watching demo videos I can honestly say it will rival TiVo in terms of the UI, functionality, etc...rumor mill is that its been delayed 6 months already because of potential patent violation concerns in the never ending echostar vs. tivo lawsuit.

As of right now I've reconnected my HD TiVo's, and I am shipping the dish receivers back to DISH. I successfully argued that bringing non functional used equipment, and charging hundreds for it, is unprofessional and a deal breaker...not to mention promising an unreleased receiver, the VIP 922 @ sign up. Dish retentions tried offering the barn to keep the subscription, including a promise of upgrading to the VIP 922 when available @ off-contract upgrade rates. Not worth the risk of being stuck in a 24 month contract hopping for a receiver which may never materialize DirecTV MPEG-4 TiVo anyone ;)

Still pray'n for that Motorola tuning adapter soon!

Hmmmm.... My experience with DISH service and Dish's VIP-722 STB is all good. DISH provided me with new equipment, no refurbs. Sounds like Bubu was dealing with a sleaze distributer. Also, ALL of my equipment received and installation was totally free. (I also got a new VIP-625 for my non-HD TVs.) Bubu paying "hundreds" seems to confirm that he/she was getting ripped.

After having DISH for quite awhile, I still feel that the worst of DISH is far and above better than the best COX ever has/had. A recent article in the OC Register confirms that customers are the most dissatisfied with cable companies - particularly Cox and Time Warner. Satellite and DISH customers are much happier.

So in Cox's forseeable future, I see a continuing the downhill slide. Cox's incompetent 'private equity' management keeps cutting costs and service and delays new technology while they look to sell out. But in these recession times ... don't hold your breath.

Thanks, bubu. I agree that DISH probably looks a great deal better than Cox. I will point out, though, that there are times when Cox HD PQ is pretty darn good. A test at a given time will certainly reveal noticeable differences, but multiple tests at different times would be even better. So just give that DISH guy a call, have him come back and reinstall, and this time keep the system for a while. :p

I do have a question about the install. Did DISH run their own dedicated (RG6, I presume) cables to your locations, or did they just tap into existing wiring? If existing, is it RG6 or RG59? I've posted about this before, but one of my main deterrents to going with DirecTV (or even DISH for that matter) is that I have a first story condo with all-tile floors, so running new cables is out of the question. If D* could merely tap into the cable minimum point of entry (MPOE), I would be closer to switching to DirecTV when they get a TiVo DVR again. My other deterrent is that I have three locations in which I use raw cable. To add D* boxes at those three locations would be pretty costly. Dang, if Cox would just improve their PQ, so many of us would stick around, particularly with our TiVos. :mad:

My DISH installation was (a) disconnect Cox at the house input, (b) connect the DISH cable to the same spot. No new cables within the walls of the house. One new cable on the house exterior from the dish itself connected to the house. Cox's cable was underground, but DISH's is obviously above ground. No new cables within the house walls. From the interior wall plate, only the same existing single cable per TV or STB connection.

All in all, what could be easier? The VIP722 runs 1-HD set and 1-SD set. The 625 runs 2-SD sets. 4 TVs, 2 boxes. Each box has a 500GB disk DVR. This should be enough for nearly everyone -- even if you wanna record all the episodes of "As the Stomach Turns" and "One Life to Give" etc.

The VIP722 even merges every single local OTA DTV channel if you add your own antenna. I have a straight shot out my NW facing window and use a cheapo amplified TERK rabbit ears/UHF loop. What else could be easier?

I can't really comment on pix quality since my plasma is an older 720p. But so far, the only low bit-rate sampling I've easily seen is on ABC - particularly network news items. I see it via the DISH as well as the antenna feeds for CH-7.1. (Greedy network execs. Too bad the FCC didn't define the term "HDTV" quality requirements.)

Thanks, bubu. I agree that DISH probably looks a great deal better than Cox. I will point out, though, that there are times when Cox HD PQ is pretty darn good. A test at a given time will certainly reveal noticeable differences, but multiple tests at different times would be even better. So just give that DISH guy a call, have him come back and reinstall, and this time keep the system for a while. :p

I do have a question about the install. Did DISH run their own dedicated (RG6, I presume) cables to your locations, or did they just tap into existing wiring? If existing, is it RG6 or RG59? I've posted about this before, but one of my main deterrents to going with DirecTV (or even DISH for that matter) is that I have a first story condo with all-tile floors, so running new cables is out of the question. If D* could merely tap into the cable minimum point of entry (MPOE), I would be closer to switching to DirecTV when they get a TiVo DVR again. My other deterrent is that I have three locations in which I use raw cable. To add D* boxes at those three locations would be pretty costly. Dang, if Cox would just improve their PQ, so many of us would stick around, particularly with our TiVos. :mad:

From past comparisons Cox and OTA HD feeds of locals were pretty much identical in size, bit rate, resolution, etc. so I don't believe Cox is degrading FOX & ABC and the other locals. As I've pointed out in the past ABC recently added another HD sub-channel OTA which really affected quality of its primary HD channel, so unless Dish is not using OTA feeds for the locals I don't see how those could be better than Cox.

The other factor to keep in mind is if you were using different inputs to same TV then you have to calibrate each input individually. Most modern HDTVs have individual settings for each input so when doing A/B comparisons you have to keep that in mind.

Only other thing I can think of is FOX & ABC are 720p, so depending on output settings on Tivo and Dish the upscaling (if output is set to 1080i) could be better on Dish hardware than TivoHD. So you are better off having 1080i selected on both and comparing 1080i channels such as CBS & NBC to eliminate upscaling differences.

Good point. I have a 720p plasma so I set my DISH box to output 720p. For 1080i I noticed some ragged edges on CNBC. I think they change some of the individual sections of the display (main section on top, ticker crawls on the bottom). Not sure on this, but I did see a marked difference between 720 vs 1080 for my particular TV.

...i think the DISH VIP 722's have larger hard drives than the 612's I was given. Even if it recorded 50 hours of HD its not enough for me. I tend to timeshift what I watch by 9+ months. I refused to start on a show which will get canned after the 1st season (which 85% of shows wind up being) so I tend to have in some cases 20+ episodes of a show before I start watching...that and cliff-hangers suck :)

I really think you will be disappointed going from an HD TiVo to any other currently available DVR from any provider. I really hope that the VIP 922 from DISH & DirecTV's HD TiVo materialize sooner rather than later...as it stands COX has me hostage because of my TiVo...and it only erks me more now that I know how superior the HD quality was on DISH.

...on a side note for us disenfranchised cablecard TiVo users. I got my cable bill down to $103 a month after complaining on several angles (new hd channels not on cable cards, hd picture quality, overall number of channels)
It breaks down as $59.99 for the internet portion, no telephone,...and $43.00 for cable with HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, and Starz + all the digital tiers except family & HD theater tiers, 3 cable cards, + 1 motorola receiver. I think every cablecard TiVo user should call retentions and squeeze them on the pricing while threatening to go elsewhere...the complaints we have are extremely valid and the retention reps know it. Granted that $103 price will go away for me by March of next year...but meh, its a couple of hundred dollars in savings. Maybe with enough discounts being handed out for these reasons someone @ COX may take notice, after all the quickest way to get a faceless corporations attention is to hurt their bottom line.

Does everyone get the feeling that the cable companies and satellite companies are no different than the airlines and the cellphone companies? They all know who has the best quality and prices. Customers get dissatisfied and a certain percentage all "rotate" to the next provider.

In Cox's case, it seems pretty clear that their technology and service is markedly inferior. They must know it. So if you can accept lots of poor quality for a few $$ in savings, Cox is for you. Otherwise switch.

PS: I notice that Direct TV's channel guide has a bunch of advertisements! What a pile of c**p!. you can't even get a clean channel guide from those creeps. Dish's guide is clean. Last I looked at Cox's guide it was clean too. But Cox's guide was mostly pretty sluggish and had poor jerky response when browsing. Cos must have gotten a blowout good deal on their last boatload shipment of big moto boxes.

Before the "digital transition" with a cheap indoor amplified UHF/VHF antenna in the garage I pulled in all the OTA UHF stations without issue with 75-95 signal strength. After the transition and movement of some channels to VHF I could no longer pull in any VHF channels. So last night I moved antenna up to upstairs balcony with line of site NW to Mt Wilson and was easily able to pull in all major OTA stations with good strength with the exception of KTTVDT (Fox). Probably with a proper roof top antenna I could pull in Fox as well and perhaps with some more tweaking I could get Fox along with the others with existing antenna on the balcony. Anyone else using OTA struggling with Fox? I'd heard some reports that KABCDT was a tough one, but that was coming in around 90 signal strength reliably so no issues for that one.

EDIT: Never mind, by shortening the VHF poles quite significantly I now get KTTVDT fairly strongly along with all the others I care about.

After the Transition date, I found that CH-7,9,11,13 signal strengths dropped a bunch. KTTV and KCOP dropped heavily. These 4 all abandoned their comfy UHF frequencies and returned to their old VHF frequencies. A pretty dumb move, but they did it. At least CH-2,4,5 all had sense to stay put.

After a couple of days, I read somewhere that the FCC allowed these 4 (CH-7,9,11,13) to have a extra power because they all suffered a big loss in their expected range. For me, KCOP(13) came back, but borderline weak. KTTV(11) never came back. Once in awhile, KTTV rears its ugly head for a little while, but then goes back into the black hole. Fortunately DISH does HD on all the old VHFs except for KCOP. So I just use my cheapo TERK antenna and all is well. No signal source switcher needed - DISH already does it seamlessly for free.

Tuning adapters delayed yet again!! ARGH!!!!!

......

Cable companies are moving to the new switched digital video technology in order to use the pipe to a customer’s home more efficiently. By reducing the number of nominal channels streamed 24/7, a cable company can add new high-definition channels to the stream. The other channels will still be there, but only broadcast when requested by the subscriber. To watch those, a TiVo user with a CableCARD will need this new adapter.

“We’ve maxed out on bandwidth,” said Lana Ong, spokeswoman for the Rancho Santa Margarita cable provider.

Aw shucks .... they're breaking my heart. They need to get off their dead hind ends and start installing fiber up to the house. They'd blow away all the satellite and DSL customers. They could even offer decent internet prices. Instead they wanna put in all this band-aid "switched video technology" equipment.

I guess Cox's 'private equity' management missed their Wall St IPO window. So it looks like they have to sell and let the buyer do all the worthwhile technology upgrades..... someday.

I live in San Diego and recently helped a friend in Laguna Niguel get setup with all three Cox products, to my dismay, the Moto HD DVR they hooked up seemed outdated, it only had DVI or Component outputs. You don't have the SA 8300HD's? He's going to be updating the TV to a newer flat panel and an HDMI surround receiver this holiday season and I'd like to have everything running through the receiver with HDMI cables. Also the GUI on it seemed very sluggish. I couldn't figure out how to jump to another day without having to scoll to the right hour by hour.

Any insight would be appreciated...

Lon

Welcome to Cox. Thats exactly why I dumped it awhile back. I went to satellite service. 500% improvement.

No problem. The ">" does indeed mean "greater than" in the mathematical sense, but is used within AVS to mean succession or sequence. In other words, in the "all about the DVR" part, bubu started with a Cox DVR, then got a TiVo HD DVR, then got a Dish DVR, and so on.

Perhaps what was lost in my explanation (and thus intended message to bubu) was that if bubu's number one priority is the DVR itself, then he may try the DirecTV DVR, but not like it as much as the TiVo HD DVR, thus returning to the TiVo HD DVR. On the other hand, if PQ is paramount (my second scenario), then his succession will end with the DirecTV DVR.

I hope that makes sense. :)

All this discussion on pix quality shows that "HD" is all downhill from here with the greedy networks downgrading the sample rates. I guess my next TV need only be a cheapo 720p 60Hz. Whats the use of getting a new Samsung LED 1080p w/240Hz? I'll get to see blurry grass on the playing field with a crisper blur and the grass will scroll by much more smoothly. Sigh......

For as much as I rag on Cox about picture quality I figure I should post when I notice great picture quality.
ESPNHD has consistently been very good quality and certainly no exception tonight for Monday Night Football. Since I'm a Dolphins fan I watched game very closely and I also collected statistics on it. No artifacting at all that I noticed and no defects period. The bit rate average was an impressive 17.7Mbps - and this for a 720p channel! (Compare that to ABCHD and its lousy 8 Mbps or less or compare it to CBSHD great quality 1080i channel which averages around 17.7 Mbps).
So kudos to Cox for a great looking ESPNHD! Just wish some other channels like SYFYHD were half as good.

For as much as I rag on Cox about picture quality I figure I should post when I notice great picture quality.
ESPNHD has consistently been very good quality and certainly no exception tonight for Monday Night Football. Since I'm a Dolphins fan I watched game very closely and I also collected statistics on it. No artifacting at all that I noticed and no defects period. The bit rate average was an impressive 17.7Mbps - and this for a 720p channel! (Compare that to ABCHD and its lousy 8 Mbps or less or compare it to CBSHD great quality 1080i channel which averages around 17.7 Mbps).
So kudos to Cox for a great looking ESPNHD! Just wish some other channels like SYFYHD were half as good.

+1. ESPNHD looked great tonight. Of course, the win may have clouded your vision a bit. :p

That brings up something I was curious about...

So lately I have been using my HDTV's digital tuner to watch shows when my DVR is busy recording. I just run a long coax cable from another room. With the new television season things have been busy and this comes in handy when my boxes are busy but I want to watch a different program. But there is a problem. Why is it that Cox only offers the HD locals in clear QAM? You can see the exact same show in SD for channels 1-75. I would love to see the HD versions of ESPN, TNT, USA, etc... without the box. Is this a greedy move on there part trying to force people into buying more boxes? These aren't "Premium" channels. They aren't "switched" digital stations. The SD counterparts are viewable on any device that can accept a basic coax cable so why aren't the HD ones also available? It also seems like it wouldn't be difficult to make them clear for QAM (flip a switch). Whats the deal?

That brings up something I was curious about...

So lately I have been using my HDTV's digital tuner to watch shows when my DVR is busy recording. I just run a long coax cable from another room. With the new television season things have been busy and this comes in handy when my boxes are busy but I want to watch a different program. But there is a problem. Why is it that Cox only offers the HD locals in clear QAM? You can see the exact same show in SD for channels 1-75. I would love to see the HD versions of ESPN, TNT, USA, etc... without the box. Is this a greedy move on there part trying to force people into buying more boxes? These aren't "Premium" channels. They aren't "switched" digital stations. The SD counterparts are viewable on any device that can accept a basic coax cable so why aren't the HD ones also available? It also seems like it wouldn't be difficult to make them clear for QAM (flip a switch). Whats the deal?
The policy quite simply is that pretty much anything digital is encrypted except for the local channels which FCC prohibits cable companies to encrypt. (Note that the SD digital locals are unencrypted as well as the HD locals). That policy is pretty uniform across all cable companies. The VOD stuff for years being unencrypted was most likely a shortcoming of some sort in the headend and/or client box side of things not because Cox was willingly leaving those unencrypted. There was a period of time where TNTHD was unencrypted and a couple of others here and there, but those were all mistakes that were eventually fixed by Cox OC.
Blocking access to analog channels is a lot more painful since that means a local filter at your drop is needed. For customers that get only minimum basic that is what Cox has to resort to (putting a filter to block access to higher analog channels). If you have any kind of digital service then that means you already pay for extended basic anyway so have access to all the analogs.
I still find the analogs useful for 2 cheap TVs in the house that I don't have/want a box for (mostly used by kids & spouse). Those TVs also happen to have a QAM tuner that is useful for tuning HD locals via QAM as well. I suspect after 2012 the days of those analog channels will be numbered as Cox will probably then quickly drop most of them to reclaim bandwidth for other uses. (Per a press release I posted a while back Cox committed to keeping analog channels around until at least 2012).

Here is the answer I got when I emailed Cox asking when Mult-iroom DVRs would be available. Anyone know more?



Thank you for contacting our Online Customer Care Team.

We are currently testing a networked DVR that would allow recording of up to 4 programs, expand recording capability and would give the ability to view recorded materials on more than one television. At this time we do not have a release date as to when these receivers will be made available to our customers.

If we can be of any additional service to you, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Sincerely,

Chrissy

Cox Communications - Customer Care

Online Support Team[/I]

We are currently testing a networked DVR that would allow recording of up to 4 programs That is most likely inaccurate/misleading. That implies a quad tuner which I have not heard of any major cable set top box manufacturer having plans to release any time soon. I think what they meant to say is you can stream from the DVR via MoCA up to 4 programs at once around the house (and probably 4 SD recordings at a time, less HD recordings at a time), similar to what FIOS already has deployed with their Motorola QIP DVR and non-DVR client set top boxes.
I think in the near term if you want quad tuners then you have to go the Microsoft Windows 7 Media Center Edition HTPC route and use the forthcoming CableCard quad tuners to be available starting the end of this year (supposedly with $300-600 price tags).

I think in the near term if you want quad tuners then you have to go the Microsoft Windows 7 Media Center Edition HTPC route and use the forthcoming CableCard quad tuners to be available starting the end of this year (supposedly with $300-600 price tags).

ETA on the Windows 7 quad tuners has been moved to Q1 2010. I guess we will have to wait and see how well they work.

The policy quite simply is that pretty much anything digital is encrypted except for the local channels which FCC prohibits cable companies to encrypt. (Note that the SD digital locals are unencrypted as well as the HD locals). That policy is pretty uniform across all cable companies. The VOD stuff for years being unencrypted was most likely a shortcoming of some sort in the headend and/or client box side of things not because Cox was willingly leaving those unencrypted. There was a period of time where TNTHD was unencrypted and a couple of others here and there, but those were all mistakes that were eventually fixed by Cox OC.
Blocking access to analog channels is a lot more painful since that means a local filter at your drop is needed. For customers that get only minimum basic that is what Cox has to resort to (putting a filter to block access to higher analog channels). If you have any kind of digital service then that means you already pay for extended basic anyway so have access to all the analogs.
I still find the analogs useful for 2 cheap TVs in the house that I don't have/want a box for (mostly used by kids & spouse). Those TVs also happen to have a QAM tuner that is useful for tuning HD locals via QAM as well. I suspect after 2012 the days of those analog channels will be numbered as Cox will probably then quickly drop most of them to reclaim bandwidth for other uses. (Per a press release I posted a while back Cox committed to keeping analog channels around until at least 2012).

Yeah. That's pretty much what I thought was going on. Shame these companies have to be forced to provide there customers with perks. Seems to me they wouldn't lose much and help out a decent amount of customers in the process by unblocking the digital basics. But I guess when you don't have any competition you dont really need to make that extra effort.

But I guess when you don't have any competition you dont really need to make that extra effort.

Yep, no competition = less quality HD, less channels, less features - all at a higher price.:(

phdeane, FYI I've added a "Disk Usage" feature to latest version of kmttg which makes it very easy to see bit rates per channel now (for channels you have recordings for on your TiVos). This provides a fairly easy way to monitor Cox OC bit rates for channels you care about...

That brings up something I was curious about...

So lately I have been using my HDTV's digital tuner to watch shows when my DVR is busy recording. I just run a long coax cable from another room. With the new television season things have been busy and this comes in handy when my boxes are busy but I want to watch a different program. But there is a problem. Why is it that Cox only offers the HD locals in clear QAM? You can see the exact same show in SD for channels 1-75. I would love to see the HD versions of ESPN, TNT, USA, etc... without the box. Is this a greedy move on there part trying to force people into buying more boxes? These aren't "Premium" channels. They aren't "switched" digital stations. The SD counterparts are viewable on any device that can accept a basic coax cable so why aren't the HD ones also available? It also seems like it wouldn't be difficult to make them clear for QAM (flip a switch). Whats the deal?

I think the real reason lies in plain old greed. Recall the olden days of yesteryear when ATT charged an extra $1/mo to have a "tone" quality line? That was in effect even after they upgraded every single line in the USA. Then remember when they charged an extra $1/mo PER PHONE to use the tones? It cost them $0 difference for Tones vs Clicks. There was no competition in those days. It took the CA PUC to kill that pricing plan.

So now Cox has the same type of stupid policy on OTA HD & SD channels. It costs Cox extra $$ to do SD on the OTA stations. But they know the average subscriber will pay extra for the HD. This is similar to ATT's old days $1/mo touch-tone phone service.

Therefore unless you the subscriber reacts to Cox's stupid pricing practices, they will remain. So its up to you as a subscriber to bail out and switch to satellite service.

Does anyone know how to make Cox PIP work? Are the buttons on the remote just for decoration?

Does anyone know how to make Cox PIP work? Are the buttons on the remote just for decoration?

Yes. Just like the NETWORK and USB for external hard drive PORTS on the back of the DVR. Pure decorations for Cox customers.

phdeane, FYI I've added a "Disk Usage" feature to latest version of kmttg which makes it very easy to see bit rates per channel now (for channels you have recordings for on your TiVos). This provides a fairly easy way to monitor Cox OC bit rates for channels you care about...

That's great. I hadn't even installed it yet, but was about to, so this gave me the little push I needed. I've now installed it and am looking forward to giving it a try.

Until now I didn't even realize you are the mind behind kmttg. :o I guess it makes sense now kmttg - kevin moye tivo to go. :)

Thanks, Kevin!

phdeane, FYI I've added a "Disk Usage" feature to latest version of kmttg which makes it very easy to see bit rates per channel now (for channels you have recordings for on your TiVos). This provides a fairly easy way to monitor Cox OC bit rates for channels you care about...

Hi Kevin - I realize this question is totally OT, but perhaps you could point me in the right direction. I have looked around AVS and other places, but cannot seem to find others who have this issue. I've now had a chance to install and play around with kmttg. It's a nice little program. I am sure it is either something obvious or simple, but when I transfer over any of my TiVo recordings (I only have decrypt checked, nothing else), I cannot get audio when playing any of the .mpg files. Video is fine, just no audio. Am I missing a codec or do I have a setting wrong? I'm using WMP 11.0 on XP Professional. Also, should I be able to play the .TiVo file, or is this only for TiVo Desktop? Thanks.


EDIT: Okay, just reinstalled the program and now I see Encoding Profiles. I didn't have any before, so I'm sure that was the problem. I'm downloading a 1-hour HD program right now, so I'll report back once done.

Hi Kevin - I realize this question is totally OT, but perhaps you could point me in the right direction. I have looked around AVS and other places, but cannot seem to find others who have this issue. I've now had a chance to install and play around with kmttg. It's a nice little program. I am sure it is either something obvious or simple, but when I transfer over any of my TiVo recordings (I only have decrypt checked, nothing else), I cannot get audio when playing any of the .mpg files. Video is fine, just no audio. Am I missing a codec or do I have a setting wrong? I'm using WMP 11.0 on XP Professional. Also, should I be able to play the .TiVo file, or is this only for TiVo Desktop? Thanks.


EDIT: Okay, just reinstalled the program and now I see Encoding Profiles. I didn't have any before, so I'm sure that was the problem. I'm downloading a 1-hour HD program right now, so I'll report back once done.
Yes it's a codec issue. For .TiVo files you need TiVo Desktop installed so that proper decrypting codec is installed. However for .mpg file playback you don't need TiVo Desktop at all. However of course you do need mpeg2 codecs if using Windows Media Player. So you have 2 choices:
1. If you want to use Windows Media Player then you need codecs which you can get from: K-Lite Codec Pack (Get the full set) (http://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm)
2. Use a media player which comes installed with its own codecs such as VideoLAN VLC (http://www.videolan.org/).

WARNING: Random thoughts start now----
SYFY HD - Stargate Universe on Friday was god ugly bit wise. The part where the ship is crossing over teh atmosphere you can see every form of artifact, mosquitto noise, blocking, etc.

I got my 2nd tuner installed on my media center and started to mess around with it.

I noticed some other HD Stations that are not in the 700 range:
366 - G4P (SDV - so I cant watch it)
812 - KCETDT2 (normal but SD playing at the second...8:00 will have HD)

Anyone want to draft up a letter to cox that we can all sign as the Orange County, CA AVS Forum group to complain about the crappy picture quality as of late?

When the tech came out today (A contractor for cox) at about 4:45pm He came with 3 normal cable cards and 2 M-Cards. I asked him about how many cable card installs he does in a month. His response: "You are probably the 2nd one this year". I hope that after windows 7 is out, you will be able to get these tuners at the stores and more and more cablecard people will come out.

Yes it's a codec issue. For .TiVo files you need TiVo Desktop installed so that proper decrypting codec is installed. However for .mpg file playback you don't need TiVo Desktop at all. However of course you do need mpeg2 codecs if using Windows Media Player. So you have 2 choices:
1. If you want to use Windows Media Player then you need codecs which you can get from: K-Lite Codec Pack (Get the full set) (http://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm)
2. Use a media player which comes installed with its own codecs such as VideoLAN VLC (http://www.videolan.org/).

Chose option 1, worked like a charm. Thanks again!

KCBSDT=702 is still having glitches here and there that last about a second or so for almost every recording I have for that channel, and it happens to be the channel I record the most from and was previously almost perfect most of the time. The problem has been around for at least a couple of weeks now and I think dates back to at least that terrible episode of Survivor that we reported on in this thread. Anyone noticing it?

It's like the old problem a few years ago remember with the tearing across the screen? Back then Cox had to change something at the headend as well as the client boxes firmware to fix that issue. There must be some headend issue again for that channel... I haven't noticed the issue for other channels.
One difference between this channel and others is this has one of the highest bit rates of any HD channel Cox provides. It's almost like Cox is not equipped to handle high quality HD channels anymore. Unfortunately I don't have easy access to OTA feed anymore to compare against, but perhaps TheRock or someone who does can check on that?

I recorded 3 hours of CBS HD to my computer last night from the DVR. I don't know the specific bitrates and other info but the 3 hour recording was a little under 20gigs. If I remember correctly a 3 hour CBS HD recording in the past would have been around 21 or 22 gigs.

Two channels Cox doesn't seem to cripple at all are HDNET and HDNET Movies. For every hour of recording the file size is around 8 gigs. FoxHD and FX HD are also stellar. Universal owned channels seem to be the worst. Syfy, UniversalHD, USA HD, Bravo, etc... all look horrible at times and usually are around 5 gigs for an hour of material.

Well it looks like TBS HD has joined other channels in having on screen text that comes all the way to the middle of the screen. I didn't watch that channel very often anyway but its still a shame to see.

KCBSDT=702 is still having glitches here and there that last about a second or so for almost every recording I have for that channel, and it happens to be the channel I record the most from and was previously almost perfect most of the time. The problem has been around for at least a couple of weeks now and I think dates back to at least that terrible episode of Survivor that we reported on in this thread. Anyone noticing it?

It's like the old problem a few years ago remember with the tearing across the screen? Back then Cox had to change something at the headend as well as the client boxes firmware to fix that issue. There must be some headend issue again for that channel... I haven't noticed the issue for other channels.
One difference between this channel and others is this has one of the highest bit rates of any HD channel Cox provides. It's almost like Cox is not equipped to handle high quality HD channels anymore. Unfortunately I don't have easy access to OTA feed anymore to compare against, but perhaps TheRock or someone who does can check on that?

Once again - amazing that people actually pay Cox for "service" while Cox muddles around hacking their own equipment. You pay Cox rent for a DVR to record something and they can't even do it as reliably and consistent as an ordinary VHS tape recorder. They can't compete even with an antenna and Win Media Center to do a decent recording from a local station. Sigh............

KCBSDT problems appear to be fixed, at least for now. In tonight's episode of Survivor I didn't notice any glitches and the average bit rate was a respectable 16.4 Mbps (though a little lower than other recordings I have on that channel - but being a reality show probably the bit rate is usually lower anyway).
EDIT: Just checked last week's Survivor and that also clicked in around same bit rate so looks like the norm for that show.
KCBSDT=702 is still having glitches here and there that last about a second or so for almost every recording I have for that channel, and it happens to be the channel I record the most from and was previously almost perfect most of the time. The problem has been around for at least a couple of weeks now and I think dates back to at least that terrible episode of Survivor that we reported on in this thread. Anyone noticing it?

It's like the old problem a few years ago remember with the tearing across the screen? Back then Cox had to change something at the headend as well as the client boxes firmware to fix that issue. There must be some headend issue again for that channel... I haven't noticed the issue for other channels.
One difference between this channel and others is this has one of the highest bit rates of any HD channel Cox provides. It's almost like Cox is not equipped to handle high quality HD channels anymore. Unfortunately I don't have easy access to OTA feed anymore to compare against, but perhaps TheRock or someone who does can check on that?

Enough about the policies and practices of Cox. While we allow a lot of leeway in the local threads, the purpose of the thread is to discuss local reception issues. Try to get back to that. Thanks.

Don't know if anybody saw this on the Register website or if it's old news, but I thought it was interesting.

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/10/23/cox-finally-coming-out-with-multi-room-dvr/24101/

Don't know if anybody saw this on the Register website or if it's old news, but I thought it was interesting.

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/10/23/cox-finally-coming-out-with-multi-room-dvr/24101/

I didn't see this, but rick1946 posted about it (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17361834#post17361834) a week ago. This gives us a little more information. This statement concerns me a bit:


Unfortunately, Cox won’t reveal details. So, I’ve tracked down the competition’s offering for clues. Cox corporate, however, did say earlier this year that *a multi-room DVR won’t replace existing DVR services*.

That may mean a hefty surcharge. If they keep it cheap [read: small premium on regular HD DVR], I may be open to replacing my remaining Cox DVR with this MR DVR, at least to give it a try.

I just got a Cox survey asking about Multi-Room DVR, and what type of name would be good for the system. It mentioned a 3X larger hard drive, so that sounds like a 500GB drive to me. But it won't work with existing DVRs, only with a new satellite box that doesn't have the hard drive to record. So it looks like it's only two tuners. I sometimes need 3 tuners. Not often, but it's nice to have that option. I do like the idea of a 500GB drive, and multi-room, but I wish it was like Tivo where the satellite can still be a DVR.

I just got a Cox survey asking about Multi-Room DVR, and what type of name would be good for the system. It mentioned a 3X larger hard drive, so that sounds like a 500GB drive to me. But it won't work with existing DVRs, only with a new satellite box that doesn't have the hard drive to record. So it looks like it's only two tuners. I sometimes need 3 tuners. Not often, but it's nice to have that option. I do like the idea of a 500GB drive, and multi-room, but I wish it was like Tivo where the satellite can still be a DVR.

Was it an email survey or did it come in the mail? Is it clear that you can only have one new DVR with satellites, or is it possible you could have multiple new DVRs that would work together?

Was it an email survey or did it come in the mail? Is it clear that you can only have one new DVR with satellites, or is it possible you could have multiple new DVRs that would work together? I would expect it's based on the Moto QIP hardware or similar that FIOS has deployed for a while now. In that system and various press releases it specifically implies a master/slave configuration where only slaves (non-DVR boxes) can stream from master (DVR box). I suppose the vision was 1 DVR for the whole house but seems like a poor design that 2 masters can't talk to each other.
In any case it's a better design than Tivos that copy shows from 1 DVR to another which means copy protected content can't be moved around the house. With streaming that is not an issue. Tivo should have taken their cue from ReplayTV that did it right from the start with their streaming solution. As a side note of fond memories the ReplayTV auto commercial skip even worked when streaming from 1 ReplayTV to the other. An HD ReplayTV DVR would have been the Nirvana of DVRs for me but alas was not meant to be.

But I digress. I don't know if the client non-DVR boxes have MoCA capability already built in that just needs to be activated or if one will have to get new client boxes as well? Obviously the firmware/software on both DVR and non-DVR boxes will need to be updated to support MRV.
Also will be interesting to see how may simultaneous HD streams can be streamed via MoCA. My real MoCA throughput currently is almost as good as 100 Mbps ethernet (using older generation MoCA hardware too) so theoretically multiple HD streams should not be an issue.

Finally on pricing I think it's almost certain that multi-room DVR will have a higher monthly fee than regular DVR if nothing else because the hardware is more expensive for Cox. It's about $17-18/month now right for current DVR? I can't see going too much higher than that though - would someone really pay $30/month for example? (Also remember you will probably have to pay $5/month for each satellite box as well as "additional outlet" fees for each so it sure sounds like multi-room DVR with say 2 or 3 client boxes will really start to add up...).

Was it an email survey or did it come in the mail? Is it clear that you can only have one new DVR with satellites, or is it possible you could have multiple new DVRs that would work together?

It was an e-mail survey. From the data I have seen, it looks like there can only be one master that the slaves can feed from. Of course, I'd assume you can still get an independent standalone DVR still. I have 3 Cox DVRs now, but I may still keep one of them, and go one one new master DVR/Slave combo for now so I can keep the extra tuners when I need them. I hope the do add the streaming capability to existing DVRs, or let you run two masters of the new ones.

I would expect it's based on the Moto QIP hardware or similar that FIOS has deployed for a while now...

Thanks for the great insight. I might be willing to pay a little more than the regular DVR. But since I got the TiVo HD, I only have the one Cox DVR, so the cost of the MR DVR, a slave, and other fees will probably prevent me from biting. Do we know for sure it will only have two tuners?

Thanks for the great insight. I might be willing to pay a little more than the regular DVR. But since I got the TiVo HD, I only have the one Cox DVR, so the cost of the MR DVR, a slave, and other fees will probably prevent me from biting. Do we know for sure it will only have two tuners?

If they are using the DCX-3400, that's a dual tuner box.

If they are using the DCX-3400, that's a dual tuner box.

Okay, that makes sense, but too bad.

I just looked at the datasheet (http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Business/Products/TV%20Video%20Distribution/Customer%20Premises%20Equipment/All%20Digital%20QAM%20Set-tops/DCX3400/_Documents/552791-001_DCX3400.pdf?localeId=33) for the DCX3400. It's pretty cool. It appears to come standard with a 160GB HD, and the 250GB is optional. So unless Cox finally allows for external storage, I dont' see it being 500GB - unless, of course, it is a different DVR.

If it is only 250GB hard drive & 2 tuners (it will be 2 tuners for sure) it's pretty worthless as a "whole home DVR" IMO. I need at least 4 tuners. I think the Windows7 MCE with the upcoming Ceton quad CableCard tuner will make for a much better whole home DVR + media hub if you are willing to fork out the dough for it of course.

If it is only 250GB hard drive & 2 tuners (it will be 2 tuners for sure) it's pretty worthless as a "whole home DVR" IMO. I need at least 4 tuners. I think the Windows7 MCE with the upcoming Ceton quad CableCard tuner will make for a much better whole home DVR + media hub if you are willing to fork out the dough for it of course.

Agreed!

Okay, that makes sense, but too bad.

I just looked at the datasheet (http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Business/Products/TV%20Video%20Distribution/Customer%20Premises%20Equipment/All%20Digital%20QAM%20Set-tops/DCX3400/_Documents/552791-001_DCX3400.pdf?localeId=33) for the DCX3400. It's pretty cool. It appears to come standard with a 160GB HD, and the 250GB is optional. So unless Cox finally allows for external storage, I dont' see it being 500GB - unless, of course, it is a different DVR.

The e-mail survey I got said the new box would have "3X" the storage of the existing DVR, so I was assuming that it would be a 500GB drive, since no one makes a 480GB one, and that's pretty close to 500GB anyway. So either Motorola is putting in a 500GB drive in the DCX3400, or it's a different box that Cox is using.

If the e-mail is wrong, and it really is a 250GB box, that's a deal breaker for me. No way 250GB will support my "whole house". Even two tuners isn't really the best answer. We need 3 tuners on occasion.

Hopefully we will know the real specs soon. Then we can compare to the Windows 7 options that are coming out early next year.

The e-mail survey I got said the new box would have "3X" the storage of the existing DVR, so I was assuming that it would be a 500GB drive, since no one makes a 480GB one, and that's pretty close to 500GB anyway. So either Motorola is putting in a 500GB drive in the DCX3400, or it's a different box that Cox is using.

If the e-mail is wrong, and it really is a 250GB box, that's a deal breaker for me. No way 250GB will support my "whole house". Even two tuners isn't really the best answer. We need 3 tuners on occasion.

Hopefully we will know the real specs soon. Then we can compare to the Windows 7 options that are coming out early next year. It could be 320GB drive and they are comparing to 120GB 6412 DVR which would be a stretch (nothing new in marketing). I haven't seen mention of a 500GB DCX3400 series DVR but I have seen mention of a 320GB model: DCX3400/7380/000/320
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17373199#post17373199

Interesting about this box is that it has output video settings for up to 1080p/30 and you can specify which resolutions your TV supports presumably such that it will output native resolutions as much as possible according to what your TV supports:
See page 29 of the pdf (http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Business/Products/TV%20Video%20Distribution/Customer%20Premises%20Equipment/All%20Digital%20QAM%20Set-tops/DCX3400/_Documents/staticfile/DCX3400%20User%20Guide.pdf)

Interesting info about the multi-room boxes. Sadly if this isn't a free upgrade I'm not going to do it. I cant justify giving Cox any more money. Especially when I can essentially do the same thing with my PC running VLC player. Well the same thing for channels not under 5c Nazism control.

I've recently taken a look at ESPN360. Its pretty cool. Watched the Magic versus Hawks preseason game replay last night. Fullscreen was very ugly but the smaller window isn't too bad. I wouldn't pay for the service but I cant really complain when its free. I will probably continue to check it out. Its just a shame they don't offer any NFL content. If you haven't checked it out yet you might want too give it a look.

Could you please define your argument? As far as I know Cox does not charge extra for HD service over SD service. In my market (RI) a digital receiver cost the same price as HD receiver. They encrypt mostly so people won't steal cable. In the days of yester, black boxes were everywhere. Now with the new system, acquiring digital service without payment is less then practical. Logic would dictate that the more people that pay for a service, the easier it is for the company to charge less for that service. Granted, that is hardly the case, but I don't see how broadcasting everything over QAM would save the customer money. Please explain?

I'm pretty sure that none of the cable or satellite service companies in the US are receiving SD analog for any old local analog broadcast channels. It I am right, then how does Cox or DISH (for examples) provide analog SD to their viewers? I'd bet that Cox does it in their "office"s and not with their tired technology STB. Customers who think they have a bargain without needing a Cox STB on old TVs, must be receiving SD analog directly from the "office". Therefore Cox must be generating it themselves which costs them $$$. And they don't pass that cost onto the customer.

However, I'd wager that most of their customers want something from the Cox digital list of Tiers or Tears channels. Aha! The extra Digital Gateway charge! So now they can recoup their extra $$$ cost and still let the customer "think" he's getting a bargain with no box needed on SD channels 2-77 (or whatever it is today). Nice marketing gimmick.

And as someone else said earlier, ... once Cox dumps all the analog for better use (ie more $$$), they'll still keep on the Digital Gateway charge and no one will ever be the wiser. Again, reminds me of ATT charging an extra $1/mo for Touch-Tone phones in the 60's and 70's when their whole network was already "tone". But hopefully the franchising cities will catch on to the gimmick and force Cox to cut it out. We shall see..............

It could be 320GB drive and they are comparing to 120GB 6412 DVR which would be a stretch (nothing new in marketing). I haven't seen mention of a 500GB DCX3400 series DVR but I have seen mention of a 320GB model: DCX3400/7380/000/320
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17373199#post17373199

I can't imagine any disk mfgr still making puny 160GB drives or less anymore. Anything less than 500GB is just plain going bye bye in the computer industry. But I have read that corporate Moto is having $$$ problems so maybe they are getting a cheapo large lifetime buy opportunity on small sized disk inventories. I'm sure the Seagate or WD or even the Asian (eg Hibachi) crowd would oblige them today. But my guess is that Seagate and WD might have only 500GB+ drives on their shelf next year.

Moto needs to comes up with a significantly better box than DISH has had for at least 2 yrs (model VIP-722, 500GB built-in drive). Otherwise Cox and the like are gonna lose even more customers. You just know that all the providers want to offer STBs with 4-tuners, at least 500GB, and easy shared access for all 4 users. Therefore while Cox sticks with its existing awful MOTO box and also keeps pursuing "switched Video" instead of upgrading full fiber to the house, I think they are on the slippery downhill slope.

It could be 320GB drive and they are comparing to 120GB 6412 DVR which would be a stretch (nothing new in marketing). I haven't seen mention of a 500GB DCX3400 series DVR but I have seen mention of a 320GB model: DCX3400/7380/000/320
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17373199#post17373199


I'd agree that would be a big stretch! Drives are so cheap though, I can't imagine why it wouldn't be a 500Gb drive. Even at 320GB, I think that's going to be a tough sell if they want a premium price, and the e-mail sure implied it would be an extra cost service.

If it is only 250GB hard drive & 2 tuners (it will be 2 tuners for sure) it's pretty worthless as a "whole home DVR" IMO. I need at least 4 tuners.
Sure, if you make it the only box. But for me, I have three boxes in the place in the OC: bedroom, office and living room. What happens here is with my travel schedule of late I don't get to watch the shows in one room or another (each DVR records different things) because I'm in one room or another when I'm actually home. This way, if I'm in one room I can catch up on all three boxes at once in one place.

Sure, if you make it the only box. But for me, I have three boxes in the place in the OC: bedroom, office and living room. What happens here is with my travel schedule of late I don't get to watch the shows in one room or another (each DVR records different things) because I'm in one room or another when I'm actually home. This way, if I'm in one room I can catch up on all three boxes at once in one place. That's the problem. You have 3 DVRs now = 6 tuners. With this upcoming solution streaming only works from 1 DVR (I will call it MDVR) to non-DVR boxes. So for setup you envision you can get have 1 MDVR and 2 non-DVR boxes, but then you will only have 2 tuners compared to 6 you have now.
i.e. An MDVR won't talk to other MDVR boxes or DVR boxes which restricts how much you can record to 1 MDVR box with 2 tuners and limited disk space if you want multi-room viewing capability for all your recordings.

Well if the configuration is having one Main DVR unit and additional slave units (non dvr) then there is no way in hell I will "upgrade". Makes absolutely no sense. I cant imagine there would be much demand for such a service implemented in that way.

Whats truly a shame is that I'm sure if Cox gave a hacker the proper information and tools they could get the existing boxes to do the same thing with a simple software or firmware upgrade and hooking the boxes up to the home router (network). My guess is the stupid Copy Protection is getting in the way. I'm sure the hackers could get the external hard drive and picture in picture support working as well.

Yes if it really is akin to the FIOS solution which works as I described I don't see much value either, especially for those that have more than 1 DVR already. I suspect though many/most households with Cox DVR only have 1 (especially since it's ~ $18/month per DVR) and thus would see this as an upgrade in that they can stream to other non DVR boxes in the house.

I'm with Cox in Palos Verdes. I just got a letter saying that basically all SDV channels, and some of the HD ones, will be SDV as of November 20th. I'm using an HD Tivo, and they say tuning adapters MIGHT be available by the end of the year. They're offering a plain STB (no DVR) for free for a few months as consolation. Have they already sent this letter out in OC, or are we getting hit first? If they turn my TIvo into a boat anchor, it may be time to go to DTV.

...I got a similar letter 18 months ago when the new SDV HD channels started popping up in OC. Letter stated that I could go to a COX store and pickup a standard HD receiver free for 6 months while they sorted out the tuning adapter availability...been sitting on a free receiver ever since.

So OC got that letter quite a bit earlier, and they still haven't shifted that many channels. I hope that's how it goes here, as a plain receiver would be useless for me. I don't watch anything live.

I'm with Cox in Palos Verdes. I just got a letter saying that basically all *SDV* channels, and some of the HD ones, will be SDV as of November 20th. I'm using an HD Tivo, and they say tuning adapters MIGHT be available by the end of the year. They're offering a plain STB (no DVR) for free for a few months as consolation. Have they already sent this letter out in OC, or are we getting hit first? If they turn my TIvo into a boat anchor, it may be time to go to DTV.

Hi Oscar. Are you saying the letter stated all *SDV* or all *SD* channels will be SDV as of November 20th? If it's the former, them I'm confused as to what the letter is saying. If it is the latter, then you probably have a while until you should be concerned about all standard definition channels going SDV. Are you also saying the PV does not have any SDV channels yet?

That's the problem. You have 3 DVRs now = 6 tuners. With this upcoming solution streaming only works from 1 DVR (I will call it MDVR) to non-DVR boxes. So for setup you envision you can get have 1 MDVR and 2 non-DVR boxes, but then you will only have 2 tuners compared to 6 you have now.
i.e. An MDVR won't talk to other MDVR boxes or DVR boxes which restricts how much you can record to 1 MDVR box with 2 tuners and limited disk space if you want multi-room viewing capability for all your recordings.

Alas, we'll probably never see this (http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/10/27/pace-and-rovi-work-together-to-make-a-standard-set-top-a-true-mu/), but it is still nice to dream.;)

That's the problem. You have 3 DVRs now = 6 tuners. With this upcoming solution streaming only works from 1 DVR (I will call it MDVR) to non-DVR boxes.
Aw hell, I get it now. That's too bad- and as TheRock says, I'm sure the issue isn't technical, but legal/commercial.

Hi Oscar. Are you saying the letter stated all *SDV* or all *SD* channels will be SDV as of November 20th? If it's the former, them I'm confused as to what the letter is saying. If it is the latter, then you probably have a while until you should be concerned about all standard definition channels going SDV. Are you also saying the PV does not have any SDV channels yet?

Sorry, I miss-typed there. It should have been SD channels, not SDV. What they sent was a list of channels that were to be changed to SDV, and their list included just about all of the standard def channels, almost everything below 700. It included a few channels in the 700s as well, but I can't remember which. If they're actually doing it a few channels at a time, and tuning adapters come out reasonable soon, I can live with it. If they change them all at once, I may switch to satellite, although I don't like the year commitment.

Sorry, I miss-typed there. It should have been SD channels, not SDV. What they sent was a list of channels that were to be changed to SDV, and their list included just about all of the standard def channels, almost everything below 700. It included a few channels in the 700s as well, but I can't remember which. If they're actually doing it a few channels at a time, and tuning adapters come out reasonable soon, I can live with it. If they change them all at once, I may switch to satellite, although I don't like the year commitment.

Well, it is good that PV hasn't gone SDV yet. You won't have to wait as long as the rest of us CableCARD folks have. ;) I wouldn't place my bet on Cox having the tuning adapters by year end.

Moyekj - have you heard any grumblings about people having issues with the tuning adapters? It seems like I've heard some on the TiVo Community forums, but not sure who has been affected. We've all been hoping for so long for the tuning adapters, I would hate to have them introduce more issues.

Moyekj - have you heard any grumblings about people having issues with the tuning adapters? It seems like I've heard some on the TiVo Community forums, but not sure who has been affected. We've all been hoping for so long for the tuning adapters, I would hate to have them introduce more issues. Yes, mostly those are TWC markets using Cisco TAs though. Orange County looks like is really going to be the first market employing SDV that will use the Motorola TAs, so the quality/reliability is unknown at this point. I don't know if repeated deployment delays here are due to problems or priorities (probably a combination of both).
Remember that these TAs were really engineered very quickly and at lowest cost point possible so I wouldn't expect great reliability out of them. It's another piece of hardware that requires authorization with cable company in order to work properly, so now Tivo users need properly authorized cable cards & TA units for things to work properly which just increases chances of things going wrong. Remember that the TA will take over the complete frequency -> channel mapping function so if TA is not functioning properly it affects all channels including non-SDV ones.
As it stands right now I would be on the fence about using a TA as there really aren't any SDV channels I would care much about right now. My guess is eventually though Cox may become more and more aggressive in moving channels to SDV and at some point we may not have a choice. Since I have 2 Tivos probably initially I would actively use a TA on one of them to judge stability before jumping in with 2 feet. A large percentage of my recordings are from local broadcast channels which should never go SDV so it could well be for at least one of my Tivos I will never use a TA.

Gadgetress reports that testing (http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/10/28/cox-to-begin-testing-tivo-adapter-this-week-only-in-oc/24447/) is finally underway on the TA's. Anyone here among the betas?

Gadgetress reports that testing (http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/10/28/cox-to-begin-testing-tivo-adapter-this-week-only-in-oc/24447/) is finally underway on the TA's. Anyone here among the betas?

According to the article it is TiVo organizing/sponsoring the testing and TiVo beta participants are not allowed to disclose any information about beta testing:
According to Cox spokeswoman Lana Ong, TiVo has already pre-selected 50 Orange County customers to participate in the test.

Yes, mostly those are TWC markets using Cisco TAs though. Orange County looks like is really going to be the first market employing SDV that will use the Motorola TAs, so the quality/reliability is unknown at this point. I don't know if repeated deployment delays here are due to problems or priorities (probably a combination of both).
Remember that these TAs were really engineered very quickly and at lowest cost point possible so I wouldn't expect great reliability out of them. It's another piece of hardware that requires authorization with cable company in order to work properly, so now Tivo users need properly authorized cable cards & TA units for things to work properly which just increases chances of things going wrong. Remember that the TA will take over the complete frequency -> channel mapping function so if TA is not functioning properly it affects all channels including non-SDV ones.
As it stands right now I would be on the fence about using a TA as there really aren't any SDV channels I would care much about right now. My guess is eventually though Cox may become more and more aggressive in moving channels to SDV and at some point we may not have a choice. Since I have 2 Tivos probably initially I would actively use a TA on one of them to judge stability before jumping in with 2 feet. A large percentage of my recordings are from local broadcast channels which should never go SDV so it could well be for at least one of my Tivos I will never use a TA.

Thanks for the good update, and that is exactly what I am afraid of - more issues. Not having the additional channels is fine by me, too, particularly as I still have the Cox DVR if I must see something on one of the SDV channels. Admittedly, I haven't yet.

Gadgetress reports that testing (http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/10/28/cox-to-begin-testing-tivo-adapter-this-week-only-in-oc/24447/) is finally underway on the TA's. Anyone here among the betas?

According to Cox spokeswoman Lana Ong, TiVo has already pre-selected 50 Orange County customers to participate in the test. *If all goes well*, Cox will offer the free adapter to any customer sometime in late November.

Something tells me it won't go well, and we'll be well into 2010 before we see the tuning adapters. Perhaps I'm just being too pesimistic. :rolleyes:

OK. ABC HD from COX is officially gone from bad to horrible. I recorded a show tonight (60+min) and the end file size was 2.89 GB. That's around the same size as 30 minute show used to be (in years past) from ABC HD on COX. That was for a 30 minute show, not a 60 minute one. And you could really tell from watching it. The picture quality was incredibly soft and muddy. It looked like bad online streaming "HD" quality. I recorded another ABC HD one hour show from over the air and it came in at 4.71 GB. Not the 7 GB of years past but still much better than COX.

OK. ABC HD from COX is officially gone from bad to horrible. I recorded a show tonight (60+min) and the end file size was 2.89 GB. That's around the same size as 30 minute show used to be (in years past) from ABC HD on COX. That was for a 30 minute show, not a 60 minute one. And you could really tell from watching it. The picture quality was incredibly soft and muddy. It looked like bad online streaming "HD" quality. I recorded another ABC HD one hour show from over the air and it came in at 4.71 GB. Not the 7 GB of years past but still much better than COX. You really have to record same show to make comparison. Most of my ABCHD recordings clock in around 3GB/hour but for some shows like Dancing With The Stars ABC cranks up the bit rate a little to get it to 4.7GB/hour (both still pitiful for "HD" of course). Which 1 hour show was 4.7GB for you OTA?

You really have to record same show to make comparison. Most of my ABCHD recordings clock in around 3GB/hour but for some shows like Dancing With The Stars ABC cranks up the bit rate a little to get it to 4.7GB/hour (both still pitiful for "HD" of course). Which 1 hour show was 4.7GB for you OTA?

Flashforward.

10/29 episode of FlashForward was only 3.5GB in size for me via Cox. That is quite a difference indeed. OTA broadcast of ABCHD is bad enough - we don't need Cox further reducing bit rate... They don't on CBSHD or KTTVDT. KABCDT is crammed into a QAM with a bunch of other stuff from what I recall which doesn't help.

EDIT:
RF 31 has following 4 channels:
KTTVDT (720p)
KABCDT (720p)
KABCDT2 (720p)
KABCDT3 (480i)

Theoretically that should be sufficient since 1 QAM 256 allows for ~38Mbps. ATSC (OTA) limits are 19 Mbps and hence the 3 ABC stations have to fit within 19 Mbps. Also we know that KTTVDT is still excellent via Cox so it's not suffering, so I guess I can't explain the difference. Could be that fiber feed to Cox is different than the OTA feed.

I don't know what's going on either. I think its about time I email Cox again. Its been awhile.

I've noticed that football on ESPNHD doesn't look very good, although SportsCenter on the same station does look OK. The football games on KCBS HD, KNBC HD and KTTV HD look superior to ESPNHD. Is Cox shaving bits off ESPNHD?:confused:

I've noticed that football on ESPNHD doesn't look very good, although SportsCenter on the same station does look OK. The football games on KCBS HD, KNBC HD and KTTV HD look superior to ESPNHD. Is Cox shaving bits off ESPNHD?:confused: I don't think so. ESPNHD is one of the better ones. The last NFL game I recorded averaged 18 Mbps and tonight's Lakers game averaged 17.7 Mbps (7.4 GB/hour) which is better than NBC, CBS and FOX HD channel rates. (I don't watch college football so can't comment on that but I could see where perhaps a college game would have sub-par cameras seeing as there are so many of them to cover).

Just got a letter in the mail from Cox - a HUGE amount of SD channels are going SDV at the end of November. Even premium non-HD (HBO, etc). Once again offering a free box for 6 months for CableCard customers. And stating that they expect a tuning adapter by the end of the year.

Going to be really frustrating for me if tuning adapters don't come before the huge SDV switch...

Got the letter about SDV too. The following are all channels listed going SDV starting November 25th:
100-105,108,112,119
201-212 (HBO)
222-229 (Cinemax)
241-247 (Showtime)
206-261 (TMC)
283-289 (STARZ)
Most channels in the 300s
733 (NHL HD)
798 (Game HD)

That is in addition to following channels already SDV only:
107 Jewelry TV
109 Leased Access
110 Shop NBC
117 C-Span 3
313 The Mtn
314 CBS College Sports
317 Weatherscan Local
319 Fuel
320 Fit TV
335 TV G
336 HRTV
344 Game Show
347 FUSE
351 Fine Living
360 CMT Pure County
363 Fox Reality
366 G4TechTV
425 TV-5
427 ART
426 RAI
477 CCTV-9
717 FX HD
748 BET HD
749 MTV HD
750 VH1 HD
752 Spike HD
759 CMT HD
760 Comedy HD
770 Nickelodeon HD
771 Cartoon HD
850 C-Span 2 (with city feed)

Personally I don't care for or watch any of the above channels with exception of FX so doesn't bother me too much not having a TA yet - hopefully Cox will continue to add less-watched channels to SDV as they have so far. I suspect most new digital channel additions from here on out except most popular ones will be SDV.

I'm a little surprised that the digital simultcast channels (digital versions of 2-98) are not going SDV as well, leaving the analog versions for CableCard customers, but I guess they are popular and wouldn't benefit much anyway.

Grr. I can't be bothered to get a plain HD receiver -- without a DVR I would never use it anyway. But I do occasionally watch HISI, BIO, MIL, BBCA and a handful of the other channels.

I guess the best that can be said is that they are leaving the HD channels alone -- for the time being.

I REALLY hope we actually get those TA's soon.

Got the letter about SDV too. The following are all channels listed going SDV starting November 25th:
100-105,108,112,119
201-212 (HBO)
222-229 (Cinemax)
241-247 (Showtime)
206-261 (TMC)
283-289 (STARZ)
Most channels in the 300s
733 (NHL HD)
798 (Game HD)

That is in addition to following channels already SDV only:
107 Jewelry TV
109 Leased Access
110 Shop NBC
117 C-Span 3
313 The Mtn
314 CBS College Sports
317 Weatherscan Local
319 Fuel
320 Fit TV
335 TV G
336 HRTV
344 Game Show
347 FUSE
351 Fine Living
360 CMT Pure County
363 Fox Reality
366 G4TechTV
425 TV-5
427 ART
426 RAI
477 CCTV-9
717 FX HD
748 BET HD
749 MTV HD
750 VH1 HD
752 Spike HD
759 CMT HD
760 Comedy HD
770 Nickelodeon HD
771 Cartoon HD
850 C-Span 2 (with city feed)

Personally I don't care for or watch any of the above channels with exception of FX so doesn't bother me too much not having a TA yet - hopefully Cox will continue to add less-watched channels to SDV as they have so far. I suspect most new digital channel additions from here on out except most popular ones will be SDV.

I'm a little surprised that the digital simultcast channels (digital versions of 2-98) are not going SDV as well, leaving the analog versions for CableCard customers, but I guess they are popular and wouldn't benefit much anyway.

Beyond the problems SDV causes for Tivo users, are there any other ramifications associated with channels going to SDV? I'm assuming it's totally transparent to those with Cox DVRs and receivers. True?

LMK5

Beyond the problems SDV causes for Tivo users, are there any other ramifications associated with channels going to SDV? I'm assuming it's totally transparent to those with Cox DVRs and receivers. True?

LMK5 Not completely transparent at least for Cox DVR users. Supposedly after some period of inactivity these SDV channels are supposed to time out so if you are used to watching a delayed DVR buffer then for SDV channels they may not be available. There is also a very small chance you go and tune an SDV channel and can't do so because of clogged bandwidth or technical issues (since 2 way communications are now needed). For the most part though yes I think it should be pretty much transparent to most with Cox boxes and hopefully for Tivo users with Tuning Adapters.

Not completely transparent at least for Cox DVR users. Supposedly *after some period of inactivity these SDV channels are supposed to time out so if you are used to watching a delayed DVR buffer then for SDV channels they may not be available*. There is also a very small chance you go and tune an SDV channel and can't do so because of clogged bandwidth or technical issues (since 2 way communications are now needed). For the most part though yes I think it should be pretty much transparent to most with Cox boxes and hopefully for Tivo users with Tuning Adapters.

I have not seen this on my Cox DVR yet. Has anybody else?

I got the letter, too, by the way. I was a little shocked, but then again oscardeuce mentioned PV got the letter recently, so I was kind of expecting it here, too. I rarely watch any of those channels, so not too concerned. I'm tempted to take them up on the free HD receiver, though, as that is how I used to have my Series 2 TiVo hooked up (currently, I'm just feeding it raw cable). It's strange how they offer the HD receiver free for six months, but charge you $1.99 a month for the SD receiver.

Let's hope they do get the TA by year end. I'm sure there will eventually be channels that I do want on SDV.

edit: on second thought, my son (and therefore wife) may be a little upset about not having PBS Sprout in the living room for a while. I guess they'll just have to hang out in the bedroom more.

It's a little odd that the timeout doesn't happen. But it could well be that DVR buffer gives the channel a little higher priority than a non-DVR tuner and it won't timeout unless the system is clogged and needs to recoup bandwidth. That's the only explanation I have. Remember when SDV 1st rolled out here the timing out was the behavior as reported by a couple of people, but perhaps it was tweaked after some complaints. If that is the case, as more and more SDV channels are added it becomes more likely the system will start to behave that way (timing out all but highest priority SDV such as actively watched and/or recorded channels). If it will never behave that way then it doesn't really seem to make any sense to deploy SDV at all...

It's a little odd that the timeout doesn't happen. But *it could well be that DVR buffer gives the channel a little higher priority than a non-DVR tuner* and it won't timeout unless the system is clogged and needs to recoup bandwidth. That's the only explanation I have. Remember when SDV 1st rolled out here the timing out was the behavior as reported by a couple of people, but perhaps it was tweaked after some complaints. If that is the case, as more and more SDV channels are added it becomes more likely the system will start to behave that way (timing out all but highest priority SDV such as actively watched and/or recorded channels). If it will never behave that way then it doesn't really seem to make any sense to deploy SDV at all...

I think that may be the key.

Yes, mostly those are TWC markets using Cisco TAs though. Orange County looks like is really going to be the first market employing SDV that will use the Motorola TAs, so the quality/reliability is unknown at this point. I don't know if repeated deployment delays here are due to problems or priorities (probably a combination of both).
Remember that these TAs were really engineered very quickly and at lowest cost point possible so I wouldn't expect great reliability out of them. It's another piece of hardware that requires authorization with cable company in order to work properly, so now Tivo users need properly authorized cable cards & TA units for things to work properly which just increases chances of things going wrong. Remember that the TA will take over the complete frequency -> channel mapping function so if TA is not functioning properly it affects all channels including non-SDV ones.
As it stands right now I would be on the fence about using a TA as there really aren't any SDV channels I would care much about right now. My guess is eventually though Cox may become more and more aggressive in moving channels to SDV and at some point we may not have a choice. Since I have 2 Tivos probably initially I would actively use a TA on one of them to judge stability before jumping in with 2 feet. A large percentage of my recordings are from local broadcast channels which should never go SDV so it could well be for at least one of my Tivos I will never use a TA.

For these new tuning adapters, any guesses on what the response time from key-press to onscreen video might turn out to be? It can't possibly be too speedy. Cox will be juggling around RF channels and programs like crazy. What happens when the switch becomes filled and a user selects a channel thats not already switched onto the cable?

Cox is incorrectly flagging channels on my media center PC. Things that I know very well should be open are set to no copy.

Can I call them to fix this or am I SOL?

Cox is incorrectly flagging channels on my media center PC. Things that I know very well should be open are set to no copy.

Can I call them to fix this or am I SOL?

which channel Omaha was/is flagging the digital basic tier wrong.

Cox is incorrectly flagging channels on my media center PC. Things that I know very well should be open are set to no copy.

Can I call them to fix this or am I SOL? Which channels specifically? They are only setting copy protection on premium channels last I checked.

I just checked all the "HD" Cox channels to see what channels were viewable over firewire. The only Non Premium channel that wasn't viewable was TBS HD (hasn't been viewable since it was added). This is actually better than last time I checked when TBS HD and KCAL HD were not viewable. I also noticed Cox is STILL using the SD version of KVEA. But since I don't give a rats a$$ about that channel I don't think I am going to contact Cox in fear that the airing of the real HD version will further deteriorate the channels I actually care about. Also trying to get Cox to do the right thing is a HUGE headache and usually not worth it.


It looks like The CW is now using there subchannel again (remember that lame music channel). It was airing an old episode of Two And A Half Men when I saw it. A CW HD OTA recording from tonight with the commercials removed came in at around 3.5gb. In the past CW recordings with the commercials removed were around 4.5gb.

I just checked all the "HD" Cox channels to see what channels were viewable over firewire. The only Non Premium channel that wasn't viewable was TBS HD (hasn't been viewable since it was added). TBSHD (727) is not copy protected, so whatever is preventing it from viewing over firewire is not a copy protection problem. Tivo Diagnostics show CCI=0x0 on that channel and Multi Room Viewing and Tivo To Go work fine.

Well on my Motorola DCH3416 DVR it shows CCI: 0x02 in the diagnostic page.

I've never been able to view/record TBS HD through firewire. I would have contacted COX but its such a headache to get them to admit or fix anything. Plus the channel is absolute crap. Some of the worst onscreen graffiti of any station.

TBSHD (727) is not copy protected, so whatever is preventing it from viewing over firewire is not a copy protection problem. Tivo Diagnostics show CCI=0x0 on that channel and Multi Room Viewing and Tivo To Go work fine.

Well on my Motorola DCH3416 DVR it shows CCI: 0x02 in the diagnostic page.

I've never been able to view/record TBS HD through firewire. I would have contacted COX but its such a headache to get them to admit or fix anything. Plus the channel is absolute crap. Some of the worst onscreen graffiti of any station.

Is it possible that a particular DVR (TiVo vs. Moto) could flag a channel incorrectly? In other words, could the TiVo incorrectly flag a channel, thus inadvertently disable copy protection?

Is it possible that a particular DVR (TiVo vs. Moto) could flag a channel incorrectly? In other words, could the TiVo incorrectly flag a channel, thus inadvertently disable copy protection? I don't see how. The CCI byte is part of the transmission itself. Seeing as TheRock also stated at one point he had trouble with KCALDT which is a local broadcast that should never have CCI set to 0x2 I would suspect somehow the firewire port is being influenced by something else. I never found firewire capture particularly reliable in the first place way back when I used to use it a few years ago.

I don't see how. The CCI byte is part of the transmission itself. Seeing as TheRock also stated at one point he had trouble with KCALDT which is a local broadcast that should never have CCI set to 0x2 I would suspect somehow the firewire port is being influenced by something else. I never found firewire capture particularly reliable in the first place way back when I used to use it a few years ago.

Okay, that makes sense. But since the only way for TheRock to get programs off the DVR is firewire, then he may be out of luck with TBS HD...not that he cares that much about that channel.

I think the boxes might be interpreting the signal differently. Especially with the Moto box saying CCI: 0x02. That information has nothing to do with the firewire. Its on the DVR diagnostic page. But like phdeane said I don't care enough about that channel to contact Cox and try to fight them into correcting the problem.

I think the boxes might be interpreting the signal differently. Especially with the Moto box saying CCI: 0x02. That information has nothing to do with the firewire. Its on the DVR diagnostic page. But like phdeane said I don't care enough about that channel to contact Cox and try to fight them into correcting the problem. I agree - somehow the Moto box is misreading the CCI setting in some cases would be my guess... It would be embarassing to offload anything from TBS HD A.K.A "stretchorama" anyway.

These are all channels I used to dump from my moto box
761
702
704
707
711
721

These are all channels I used to dump from my moto box
761
702
704
707
711
721 If you are using MCE then I think it applies DRM to recordings on all channels (even those with CCI=0x0). Supposedly this was to be relaxed in Win7 MCE such that CCI=0x0 channels would not have DRM applied. If you are not talking about DRM but are saying that you can't record those channels then I would guess there is something wrong with your setup as certainly 702,704,707,711 are not even encrypted.

NOTE: Firewire lets you dump encrypted channels that you are authorized to receive if CCI=0x0. Clear QAM tuner obviously won't be able to tune encrypted channels - you need a CableCard for those. For Cox pretty much any digital channel other than local broadcast stations is encrypted and can't be tuned with clear QAM tuners.

maybe they'll use some of this to improve our hd picture quality ...

http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/05/cox-travel-channel-business-media-scripps.html

maybe they'll use some of this to improve our hd picture quality ...

http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/05/cox-travel-channel-business-media-scripps.html

Interesting. It's only $181m in cash, though, so not much hope for that deal generating enough cash in the short run to improve the HD quality. Besides, not all of the quality issues are Cox' alone. The interesting thing is Scripps will take the rest ($878m) on as debt (read: no cash $ going out) which Cox will indemnify. So basically, they sell the TC for $1.1b, but only get $181m in cash, remain a 35% owner, and guarantee the rest of the sale price. I guess when Forbes says, "The joint venture gives Cox some needed tax advantages and eases the cash burden for Scripps to take control of the channel," there must be a big emphasis on the "tax advantages" part.

Scripps (and Cox, as they will remain a 35% owner) must have high hopes in that "room for growth" of the Travel Channel as it only generates $50m in cash annually:

The channel is also a niche programmer with room for growth in a second revenue stream, advertising. But even in prime-time, the audience is small--about 370,000 households. And although it's in nearly 100 million homes, it earns, on average just 6 cents per subscriber, according to SNL Kagan. No wonder Pali Research media analyst Richard Greenfield says the network will throw off only $50 million in cash flow this year.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/03/travel-channel-cox-business-media-scripps.html

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/11/06/tivos-an0100-802-11n-wifi-adapter-hits-the-fcc-stirs-up-imagin/

I particularly like this part:

There's no instruction manual or indication of whether this is the device we've been waiting for in order to *stream networked media to the TV through one's TiVo*, but why else would the outfit bother with tossing out a new dongle with support for higher throughput?

Microsoft released the 2 patches needed to completely remove commercials from TV shows and the ability to use the tuners without the hack :).

Only thing that sucks is the shows from before the patch are still copy protected and I can not edit them

I just noticed that I have some new channels

Fox News HD
E! HD

746 & 774 right? No guide listings for them yet for Tivos or zap2it.com.

746 & 774 right? No guide listings for them yet for Tivos or zap2it.com.

Yep. Those are the numbers.

I just noticed that I have some new channels

Fox News HD
E! HD

Holy crap! I've been waiting for Fox News HD forever (no slams, please). Is it SDV?


edit: I guess not, as my TiVo receives them - gotta' love Slingbox

746 & 774 right? No guide listings for them yet for Tivos or zap2it.com.

Still no guide data on either. It sounds like Cox launched these two channels without notice to anyone - not even the OC Register's very own GADGETRESS (http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/).

Still no guide data on either. It sounds like Cox launched these two channels without notice to anyone - not even the OC Register's very own GADGETRESS (http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/). I'm too lazy to do it but if you are motivated you can Report a Lineup Issue (http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html) to TiVo to get those channels added. Though if Cox channel lineup web page doesn't show those channels yet that may delay things a little. E! HD seems to be on a strange channel number that does not match it's SD counterpart (because it was already taken by another channel), so it's possible Cox may yet shuffle channel numbers around. At some point they are going to have to start using channel numbers outside of 700 range for HD channels since there are so many now.

I'm too lazy to do it but if you are motivated you can Report a Lineup Issue (http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html) to TiVo to get those channels added. Though if Cox channel lineup web page doesn't show those channels yet that may delay things a little. E! HD seems to be on a strange channel number that does not match it's SD counterpart (because it was already taken by another channel), so it's possible Cox may yet shuffle channel numbers around. At some point they are going to have to start using channel numbers outside of 700 range for HD channels since there are so many now.

Okay, filled out the form. I saw the strange channel number, but I believe there are at least a couple others that don't match the SD number - Speed, Planet Green, although those aren't in the standard 2 - 72 range. It's a matter of time before they reshuffle.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/11/10/moxi-fall-update-comes-with-a-lower-price-and-a-new-3-tuner-model/
Very competitive pricing considering no monthly fees involved:
The most notable news today from Moxi's new owner Arris though is a new three tuner HD DVR, which we believe is the first to break the two tuner barrier (that isn't PC based). The new model is only available bundled with either one, or two Moxi Mates for $799 or $999. You can still buy the dual tuner version by itself which now retails for $499 instead of $799 -- don't forget, Moxi doesn't charge service fees -- and the Moxi Mate itself is now $299 instead of $399.

Still several shortcomings compared to TiVo, one of the largest being you can't offload programs (with CCI=0x0) to your PC, something that even MCE can do now that DRM is removed. I wouldn't even consider Moxi until/if that changes.

At some point they are going to have to start using channel numbers outside of 700 range for HD channels since there are so many now.I'm somewhat surprised they haven't used 1xxx for the HD versions of the various channels. Seems a lot easier to remember.

I'm somewhat surprised they haven't used 1xxx for the HD versions of the various channels. Seems a lot easier to remember.

Not a bad idea, but now they are using some of those numbers for their on DEMAND services. I suppose, as moyekj stated, they could do a (massive) reshuffle at some point.

Not a bad idea, but now they are using some of those numbers for their on DEMAND services. I suppose, as moyekj stated, they could do a (massive) reshuffle at some point.

try the 2000's as cox kansas and arkansas is doing.

It looks like all the motorola boxes are capable of going above ch 1999.

it looks like the boxes can go to 9999

Its rather amazing they're having this problem at all. I remember not too long ago when they only had a handful of HD channels.

I agree, definitely poor arrangement of the HD channels. Even though it started with very few HD channels, only a fool wouldn't forsee that HD was the way of the future. But then what am I saying? This is Cox.

Also, for the approximately 3 people from PV on this forum. I just checked and we are also getting Fox News HD (on 751) and E! HD (on 775.) I almost didn't bother to look because PV is such an afterthought to them.

Sorry, I miss-typed there. It should have been SD channels, not SDV. What they sent was a list of channels that were to be changed to SDV, and their list included just about all of the standard def channels, almost everything below 700. It included a few channels in the 700s as well, but I can't remember which. If they're actually doing it a few channels at a time, and tuning adapters come out reasonable soon, I can live with it. If they change them all at once, I may switch to satellite, although I don't like the year commitment.

A 1yr commit with DISH is far and away a much better solution than Cox month-to-month will ever be. The entire cable industry is so obsessed with their bandaid SDV architecture that they will have soon dug themselves into a financial hole that will hurt for a long long time. Nearly every business in the country responds to its customers needs -- except the cable TV industry and Microsoft.

A 1yr commit with DISH is far and away a much better solution than Cox month-to-month will ever be. The entire cable industry is so obsessed with their bandaid SDV architecture that they will have soon dug themselves into a financial hole that will hurt for a long long time. Nearly every business in the country responds to its customers needs -- except the cable TV industry and Microsoft. Hmm. Let's see. Dish has a closed security system with no way to natively offload digital recordings to your PC. Doesn't sound anything like an open system that meets my needs... At least cable has a more open system with CableCards - a step in the right direction that Satellite has yet to be bound to.

Hmm. Let's see. Dish has a closed security system with no way to natively offload digital recordings to your PC. Doesn't sound anything like an open system that meets my needs... At least cable has a more open system with CableCards - a step in the right direction that Satellite has yet to be bound to.

I read your comments with great surprise. Just exactly how much more open is cable's CableCards system than a satellite system?

The OC Register paper writes
"November 13th, 2009, 1:28 pm"
"Cox moving 100 channels to on-demand format"

"... switched digital video, which converts channels to a type of on-demand-only service. Customers still use their remotes as normal, turning to the channel they want. The majority of customers won’t notice the change — only, I’m told, a slight delay when they turn to a switched channel. But customers who don’t have a set-top box and rely on CableCARDs won’t be able to access the channels."

Sounds like a closed security system to me. Even if your array of expensive Tivo boxes can tune all the SDV channels, the way Cox keeps juggling everything around every chance they get is pure chaos. It represents how unfocused they are and how unresponsive they are to some of their die-hard tekkie customer base.

And why do you want to "natively offload digital recordings to your PC" from Cox cable? Are you trying to copy material that might be copyright protected ... like an NFL game or a World Series game or the latest episode of a sit-com without permission?

If your DVR box from Tivo or Cox or whomever can't supply you with enough internal/external storage or tuners at a fair price to suit your needs, its time to move on. If your very expensive Tivo boxes or CableCards setup can't live with Cox's new bandaid SDV tuning system, its time to move on. If your cable supplier can't conveniently supply you with enough channels in SD/HD formats to suit your needs, its also time to move on.

And finally, if you're putting copyrighted stuff on your PC illegally without permission, then.....

All broadcasts with CCI=0x0 are fair game for being copied to a computer - there's nothing illegal about it. Users of Microsoft MCE and Windows 7 also have that capability now as well - it's only the closed satellite systems that don't allow it.

I use it mostly so I can then transfer to my portable media player for working out at the gym and for putting on a laptop so that I can watch shows on trips or vacations.

Why is it more open you ask?
With Satellite your are *REQUIRED* to use set top boxes that they provide/support. You have no option to use anything else so if you don't like what they provide you don't have a choice. CableCard gives you that choice for example to go with TiVo, Moxi, or Windows MCE to name a few, (all of which support the free Tuning Adapter so that SDV is no longer an issue). Tru2way if it ever takes off will potentially offer even more choices for the consumer to use alternative hardware than what the provider issues.

These things may not be important to you but for some they are very important. Satellite (particularly DirecTV) has some advantages compared to cable as well that I fully recognize, not the least of which is better overall picture quality right now. But until Satellite has comparable options to what I can do with cable as mentioned above I'm really not all that interested.

Is it me or has the bitrate on SyFy dropped in the last few weeks? I mean more than normal

Is it me or has the bitrate on SyFy dropped in the last few weeks? I mean more than normal My last 1 hour of Stargate Universe recording was a lousy 5.2 GB but that's about normal size for SyFy HD recordings these days...

DCT3416 Cox DVR: Does anyone know if there is a feature that allows you to check and see how much space is left on the hard drive?

LMK5

DCT3416 Cox DVR: Does anyone know if there is a feature that allows you to check and see how much space is left on the hard drive?

LMK5

Go into the DVR list and hit the "A" button and go to "space left" or something like that

Cox OC adding 15 17 HD channels (2 we already noticed, 13 15 more in December):
http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/11/13/cox-adding-15-hd-channels-in-december/26243/
(None of the new 13 15 channels interest me).

Cox OC adding 15 HD channels (2 we already noticed, 13 more in December):
http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/11/13/cox-adding-15-hd-channels-in-december/26243/
(None of the new 13 channels interest me).

Yes, saw a short reference to this in the OC Register this morning, but the article didn't mention the actual channels. My kids will be happy about ABC Family HD and Disney HD. I'll be glad to also see Fox Business HD join the recently added Fox News HD. In the old days (pre-HD), I used to occasionally watch the Biography channel. Now that it is going HD, we'll see if I check it out from time to time.

I'm glad to see they are adding more HD movie channels, but I no longer subscribe to any other than the Encore channels I get with the movie digital tier. I'm sure others will be happy with MLB Network HD and NBA TV HD.

What, Kevin, you aren't glad to finally be able to watch your favorite channels, Hallmark, Lifetime, and the previously added E!, in glorious, compressed HD?

The sad part about all this is that so many of the channels that are "going HD" have hardly any HD content. Oh well, at least the PQ is usually better on the HD version than it is on its SD counterpart - although the compression artifacting can be very annoying.

At least now that an official release has gone out, perhaps the guide data in my TiVo will get updated - although no update still on Zap2it.

I think I am about to the end of the line with Cox. I finally got my Directv back up with the Sports Subs running, so I can compare the 2 head to head Live. The Cox picture quality has dropped dramatically....AGAIN. Some examples on Sunday. NFL Ch Pregame Live from the studio, the guys suits we're crisp and even noticed the quality diff. between their info guy vs. the Ex. Ballplayers, switched to Cox and couldn't see the stripes and as the the camera panned the picture blurred. Cox Ch. 702 football game, again the picture blurred when the players, and camera moved. The D. satellite feed of Ch. 2 was rock solid 1080i, brighter with no pixelation, much better quality. I rate the provider by a few things only:
1. Picture quality, pass the feed through without rate shaping, like Cox used to....
2. HD DVR capacity and the ability to add-on if needed, and with Cox we need to...
3. Reduce the HD Channel capacity if you must but improve the quality of the channels we really need, and watch
4. Build out the system to transmit the HD Ch's as received.
I'm old, any of the computer stuff and initials of all that, I don't understand or care about
I've also never got "the Tivo" thing, buy and pay a monthly, I don't get it
My 2 cents...Cox is now in the Wide-screen business, NOT the HD business.....Sad...

I think I am about to the end of the line with Cox. I finally got my Directv back up with the Sports Subs running, so I can compare the 2 head to head Live. The Cox picture quality has dropped dramatically....AGAIN. Some examples on Sunday. NFL Ch Pregame Live from the studio, the guys suits we're crisp and even noticed the quality diff. between their info guy vs. the Ex. Ballplayers, switched to Cox and couldn't see the stripes and as the the camera panned the picture blurred. Cox Ch. 702 football game, again the picture blurred when the players, and camera moved. The D. satellite feed of Ch. 2 was rock solid 1080i, brighter with no pixelation, much better quality. I rate the provider by a few things only:
1. Picture quality, pass the feed through without rate shaping, like Cox used to....
2. HD DVR capacity and the ability to add-on if needed, and with Cox we need to...
3. Reduce the HD Channel capacity if you must but improve the quality of the channels we really need, and watch
4. Build out the system to transmit the HD Ch's as received.
I'm old, any of the computer stuff and initials of all that, I don't understand or care about
I've also never got "the Tivo" thing, buy and pay a monthly, I don't get it
My 2 cents...Cox is now in the Wide-screen business, NOT the HD business.....Sad...

Hi Ray - yes, it has long since been determined that if PQ is your main requirement, then D* is the way to go. Those of us who stick with Cox (using either the Moto DVR or our TiVos - or even the new computer tuner cards) do so for other reasons.

I should also add that your last comment about the widescreen business made me laugh - it appears to be true.

I think I am about to the end of the line with Cox. I finally got my Directv back up with the Sports Subs running, so I can compare the 2 head to head Live. The Cox picture quality has dropped dramatically....AGAIN. Some examples on Sunday. NFL Ch Pregame Live from the studio, the guys suits we're crisp and even noticed the quality diff. between their info guy vs. the Ex. Ballplayers, switched to Cox and couldn't see the stripes and as the the camera panned the picture blurred. Cox Ch. 702 football game, again the picture blurred when the players, and camera moved. The D. satellite feed of Ch. 2 was rock solid 1080i, brighter with no pixelation, much better quality. I rate the provider by a few things only:
1. Picture quality, pass the feed through without rate shaping, like Cox used to....
2. HD DVR capacity and the ability to add-on if needed, and with Cox we need to...
3. Reduce the HD Channel capacity if you must but improve the quality of the channels we really need, and watch
4. Build out the system to transmit the HD Ch's as received.
I'm old, any of the computer stuff and initials of all that, I don't understand or care about
I've also never got "the Tivo" thing, buy and pay a monthly, I don't get it
My 2 cents...Cox is now in the Wide-screen business, NOT the HD business.....Sad...
Just out of curiosity were you using same connections to same TV for comparison? The reason I ask is that 702 (CBS HD) on Cox is actually one of the better channels with the highest bit rate and last I checked the OTA feed and Cox feed for local broadcast channels were virtually identical. As you know if you are using different TVs or different connections to same TV then there are different calibration settings on TV for each. Also what can have an impact is the set top box output settings, though I would suppose you had those set the same for DTV and Cox box? From what I recall the Moto boxes were terrible at upscaling SD channels compared to TiVo boxes, but HD output settings yield very similar picture for HD 1080i content.
Overall I have no doubt DTV picture quality is better, I'm just surprised you actually noticed it for one of the best Cox HD channels.

So if you think 702 is bad then try SYFYHD or USAHD - there should be a *HUGE* difference between Cox feed and DTV feed for those channels as the Cox feeds for those are absolute junk a lot of the time.

From what I recall the Moto boxes were *terrible at upscaling SD channels* compared to TiVo boxes, but HD output settings yield very similar picture for HD 1080i content.

IIRC, this was more an issue with the older Moto boxes (e.g. DCT6412 and prior), but is not as much an issue with the DCH3416. I remember the marked improvement in SD PQ when I upgraded to the DCH3416. The TiVo is still better, though.

Yes, saw a short reference to this in the OC Register this morning, but the article didn't mention the actual channels. My kids will be happy about ABC Family HD and Disney HD. I'll be glad to also see Fox Business HD join the recently added Fox News HD. In the old days (pre-HD), I used to occasionally watch the Biography channel. Now that it is going HD, we'll see if I check it out from time to time.

I'm glad to see they are adding more HD movie channels, but I no longer subscribe to any other than the Encore channels I get with the movie digital tier. I'm sure others will be happy with MLB Network HD and NBA TV HD.

What, Kevin, you aren't glad to finally be able to watch your favorite channels, Hallmark, Lifetime, and the previously added E!, in glorious, compressed HD?

The sad part about all this is that so many of the channels that are "going HD" have hardly any HD content. Oh well, at least the PQ is usually better on the HD version than it is on its SD counterpart - although the compression artifacting can be very annoying.

At least now that an official release has gone out, perhaps the guide data in my TiVo will get updated - although no update still on Zap2it.


And still no BBC HD....and yes, Top Gear this season is filmed in HD. Bah! Come on Cox, give me a reason to get addicted to another show! (Dr. Who - sounds interesting at least)

My set-up is a 50" Pani. Professional model Plasma, no tuner or speakers, When I compare Cox to D. I put the boxes on the same Ch. and change inputs live in real time. I concur with Ch. 702, it USED to be just about as good as off-air. On Sunday it sure wasn't. SyFY and USA a big diff. I also like Nat Geo and History Ch., also no comparision. I noticed you can also add capacity to the D. HDDVR, why doesn't Cox allow and support it. My friend installs D commercially and he always commented, up until a year ago, the Cox picture quality was always better than D, even when they added the new channels last October. I'd rather have better quality and less quantity.
BTW, Anyone know how to pause the recording while watching and recording the program to save space??? Hitting pause doesn't work . Thanx...

Wondering if anyone else has seen a similar SDV problem

About 10 days ago my wife started complaining that every 15 minutes she kept getting a screen prompt while watching hockey on the center ice package. It kept happening so we called Cox.

The tech said all center ice is SDV and the validation promt we're getting ( which fills the midlle of the screen, requires an OK, or you lose you channel ) should only be coming up once every 6 hours
Fortunately, it came up quickly when he was here. He'd never seen that before, nor did anyone seem to know about the quick prompt. A couple calls later they decided I need a new DVR box. So a new box, lost all programs and settings, and problem still there
I talked with tech later in day and he said his very next call he saw the same issue on 752
His next call wasn't real close to our house, so I suspect it's not just an isololated SDV issue

The tech also said the it's not a good ideal to program any SDV channel on your DVR and leave the channel you want to record as your currently selected channel. The 6 hour prompt clock will be running

None of the channels I watch are affected by the on demand move. Hopefully though we will get a tuning adater soon for SDV and cablecard. I am hoping to build a media center for my parents and brother-in-law early next year after the new 6-tuner cards come out.

I haven't seen any of those timeout messages that you guys are talking about. But to be fair I rarely watch non hd channels these days.

Cool to hear about the new channel additions coming. If they don't effect the picture quality any further than I see it as a good thing. If things are reduced further to add them then I might need to contact Cox... and then DirecTV or Dish.

According to this post the SDV Tuning Adapters are now apparently available to TiVo customers in Orange County/Palos Verdes:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23383529-Attention-Cox-Customers-in-Orange-County-CA-Palos-Verdes

I guess that is good timing if true seeing as the big Nov 25th deadline for all SD channels > 99 going SDV is coming up.

EDIT: There is also a post of a user in TiVo forums who already got hold of one but hasn't been able to get it activated yet:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7625138#post7625138

According to this post the SDV Tuning Adapters are now apparently available to TiVo customers in Orange County/Palos Verdes:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23383529-Attention-Cox-Customers-in-Orange-County-CA-Palos-Verdes

I guess that is good timing if true seeing as the big Nov 25th deadline for all SD channels > 99 going SDV is coming up.

EDIT: There is also a post of a user in TiVo forums who already got hold of one but hasn't been able to get it activated yet:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7625138#post7625138

That's huge! Thanks!

According to this post the SDV Tuning Adapters are now apparently available to TiVo customers in Orange County/Palos Verdes:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23383529-Attention-Cox-Customers-in-Orange-County-CA-Palos-Verdes

I guess that is good timing if true seeing as the big Nov 25th deadline for all SD channels > 99 going SDV is coming up.

EDIT: There is also a post of a user in TiVo forums who already got hold of one but hasn't been able to get it activated yet:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7625138#post7625138

Okay, just called the number given in the first link and the Cox representative said the tuning adapters will be officially available in the "next couple days." He seemed very aware of the situation.

He took down my contact information, asked me how many TiVos I have, what type of CableCARD(s) I have, and said he would add me to a waiting list. He said I would be able to pick up the TA in the next couple days from the office, so we'll see.

I think I am about to the end of the line with Cox. I finally got my Directv back up with the Sports Subs running, so I can compare the 2 head to head Live. The Cox picture quality has dropped dramatically....AGAIN. Some examples on Sunday. NFL Ch Pregame Live from the studio, the guys suits we're crisp and even noticed the quality diff. between their info guy vs. the Ex. Ballplayers, switched to Cox and couldn't see the stripes and as the the camera panned the picture blurred. Cox Ch. 702 football game, again the picture blurred when the players, and camera moved. The D. satellite feed of Ch. 2 was rock solid 1080i, brighter with no pixelation, much better quality. I rate the provider by a few things only:
1. Picture quality, pass the feed through without rate shaping, like Cox used to....
2. HD DVR capacity and the ability to add-on if needed, and with Cox we need to...
3. Reduce the HD Channel capacity if you must but improve the quality of the channels we really need, and watch
4. Build out the system to transmit the HD Ch's as received.
I'm old, any of the computer stuff and initials of all that, I don't understand or care about
I've also never got "the Tivo" thing, buy and pay a monthly, I don't get it
My 2 cents...Cox is now in the Wide-screen business, NOT the HD business.....Sad...

And that sums it up for me too. I went to DISH about a yr ago and never looked back. DISH on a 2yr agreement is still way way better than Cox on a day-to-day basis ever was. When you add in all the very very expensive Tivo stuff some people feel compelled to buy - just to record what they want and when they want it (with all the low quality and channel re-assignment aggravation) - and spending $? big bucks/mo, it makes no sense to me either. Happy Thanksgiving to all, and to all a nice SDV year ahead.

Woohoo! Got one tonight at the Shady Canyon location. Plugged it in, called to activate. Took about 20 minutes or so - now I FINALLY have all the channels I've been paying for!

Please note - pick it up right before you plan on installing it. Once it's added to your account, it seems to cause the cablecards to deactivate. Just a warning so you don't miss any recordings.

Woohoo! Got one tonight at the Shady Canyon location. Plugged it in, called to activate. Took about 20 minutes or so - now I FINALLY have all the channels I've been paying for!

Please note - pick it up right before you plan on installing it. Once it's added to your account, it seems to cause the cablecards to deactivate. Just a warning so you don't miss any recordings.

Geesh, I wish I had just gone and picked up the TA. I should have known not to trust what the CSR told me. Oh well, I'll go tomorrow. Does it come with a number to call, or did you just call the regular tech support?

Geesh, I wish I had just gone and picked up the TA. I should have known not to trust what the CSR told me. Oh well, I'll go tomorrow. Does it come with a number to call, or did you just call the regular tech support?

There's a number to call once you have everything attached - I think it's their standard automated activation system for digital STBs. And there's a dedicated tuning adapter phone number to call, if there's any problems.

Which tuning adapter is it? Will it work via USB for Windows MC?

Which tuning adapter is it? Will it work via USB for Windows MC?

Motorola MTR700. It has RF in, RF out, and USB. No idea if it'll work on WMC.

Which tuning adapter is it? Will it work via USB for Windows MC?
Yes, both Cisco and Moto TAs should work for Windows 7 MCE.

Yes, both Cisco and Moto TAs should work for Windows 7 MCE.

That is great news! Looks like I'll be watching the Dell Zino HD thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1170527) a lot closer now. The one thing holding me back from taking the plunge was uncertainty about Cox's tuner support.

I hope the monthly fee isn't as bad as the 160GB DVR i've got from them.

Okay, just called the number given in the first link and the Cox representative said the tuning adapters will be officially available in the "next couple days." He seemed very aware of the situation.

He took down my contact information, asked me how many TiVos I have, what type of CableCARD(s) I have, and said he would add me to a waiting list. He said I would be able to pick up the TA in the next couple days from the office, so we'll see.
Just picked up 2 adapters at the Quail Hill store. Painless, in/out in 5 minutes. They are going fast. Thanks for the heads up from everyone here at the forum.

BT

What are they telling you are the fees for the TAs?

What are they telling you are the fees for the TAs?

I was not charged any fees for the adapters.

I was not charged any fees for the adapters.

Interesting. I will call cox to ask about my net savings by getting rid of my HD DVR.

Just picked up 2 adapters at the Quail Hill store. Painless, in/out in 5 minutes. They are going fast. Thanks for the heads up from everyone here at the forum.

BT

I picked mine up, too, this morning. However, after an hour on the phone with the activation hotline as well as tech support, it would not activate.

They are sending a tech out this afternoon. Hopefully, he can get it working.

I picked mine up, too, this morning. However, after an hour on the phone with the activation hotline as well as tech support, it would not activate.

They are sending a tech out this afternoon. Hopefully, he can get it working.

Be sure to double check the order of the RF connections, as well as making sure the USB cables are fully plugged in. Good luck!

Please test on Windows Media Center when you get a chance! :)

Please note - pick it up right before you plan on installing it. Once it's added to your account, it seems to cause the cablecards to deactivate. Just a warning so you don't miss any recordings.

Hrm, that sounds unfortunate -- I have two tivos and was going to pick up both TA's, but just try one of them at first. I guess that probably isn't a good idea. I will probably just pick up one then. I hope they can tell which cable card is on which DVR somehow?

How does the TA look? Does it have a ton of blinky lights on the front? The 2nd TiVo is in my bedroom so I hope it's not too disruptive.

I did just call the Quail Hill store and they say they have them in stock, but I may not make it by there until Friday.

Hrm, that sounds unfortunate -- I have two tivos and was going to pick up both TA's, but just try one of them at first. I guess that probably isn't a good idea. I will probably just pick up one then. I hope they can tell which cable card is on which DVR somehow?

How does the TA look? Does it have a ton of blinky lights on the front? The 2nd TiVo is in my bedroom so I hope it's not too disruptive.

I did just call the Quail Hill store and they say they have them in stock, but I may not make it by there until Friday.

TA looks pretty much like a cable modem. Once operational, a solid orange LED on the front of it. The 2nd LED is red only when communication is going to the head-end. Not very disruptive at all, and if it is, there shouldn't be any reason why you couldn't hide the box altogether.