Orange County, CA - Cox [Text View] - Page 24

bigtuna

11-24-09, 04:11 PM

I picked mine up, too, this morning. However, after an hour on the phone with the activation hotline as well as tech support, it would not activate.

They are sending a tech out this afternoon. Hopefully, he can get it working.

Try using USB port #2 on the Tivo. I couldn't get it to work with USB port #1 for some reason. Then unplug the power from the adapter, wait 30 seconds, plug back in. If you see a red light, you are good to go. I also received an on screen message from the Tivo saying that a tuning adapter was plugged in. It does take about 15-20 minutes in order to stabilize. All channels come in great.

The only question I have is how do we utilize Channel 1 (on Demand)? The Tivo remote cannot change the screen so you cannot access the menus?

nocturne1

11-24-09, 04:28 PM

The only question I have is how do we utilize Channel 1 (on Demand)? The Tivo remote cannot change the screen so you cannot access the menus?

The adapter allows us to get SDV (well, and all the other channels they have been hiding from us for whatever reason that aren't SDV). It does not allow on-Demand/PPV access.

moyekj

11-24-09, 04:31 PM

The only question I have is how do we utilize Channel 1 (on Demand)? The Tivo remote cannot change the screen so you cannot access the menus? You don't. You need the Cox set top box firmware/software for that. The good thing is that with the TA we are getting the exact same channel mappings as Cox set top boxes which is why you see some additional channels (such as 1) that you didn't before. Previously the CableCard(s) served 2 primary functions:
a. Channel mapping (channel map different than regular digital set top boxes)
b. Encryption/Decryption
Once you add a TA it takes over the channel mapping function completely.

The only downside I've noticed so far is that the "Acquiring Channels" process on the TiVo seems to take quite a bit longer than it did with CableCards, so if you reboot your TiVo it takes a few minutes longer to get to the point where the tuners work.

Also one other thing I noticed is that the TA Diagnostics screen doesn't really seem to have much in the way of diagnostics. For example it seems impossible to tell if you are tuned to an SDV channel or not. I guess ultimately we shouldn't care anymore what is under SDV or not, but I'd still like to have that information. The Cisco TAs apparently do have such information.

coolguy949

11-24-09, 04:32 PM

There will not be a fee for the tuning adapters, but there is for the CableCARDS, which is $1.99 per month for each card - make sure to get an M-CARD.

I assume this shows up as two tuners to the device/PC?

bigtuna

11-24-09, 04:41 PM

The adapter allows us to get SDV (well, and all the other channels they have been hiding from us for whatever reason that aren't SDV). It does not allow on-Demand/PPV access.

What if I wanted to order the NHL Season Pass? Would I need a Cox box? Is the NHL package considered PPV?

phdeane

11-24-09, 05:00 PM

I assume this shows up as two tuners to the device/PC?

Not quite sure what you mean as I am not very familiar with the PC cards, but I would assume it would be one tuning adapter per RF input. If you have a single card that has two tuners, then it should only require 1 TA.
Someone care to fact check my assumptions?

phdeane

11-24-09, 05:04 PM

What if I wanted to order the NHL Season Pass? Would I need a Cox box? Is the NHL package considered PPV?

I believe you would need a Cox DVR to watch any PPV channels.

coolguy949

11-24-09, 05:06 PM

Not quite sure what you mean as I am not very familiar with the PC cards, but I would assume it would be one tuning adapter per RF input. If you have a single card that has two tuners, then it should only require 1 TA.
Someone care to fact check my assumptions?

Well, I guess what I am asking is if you can record two channels as once since the TA is essentially a USB TV tuner. My DVR has two internal tuners, and M Card allows for two tuners per card.

I've been lurking the HTPC forums for a while, but it seems like the planets are starting to align and there are some affordable HTPC options available. I want to use the TA as a USB tuner for Windows Media Center. Maybe I am not asking the right questions since this is all new to me as far as tuners go. :p

phdeane

11-24-09, 05:36 PM

moyekj

11-24-09, 05:39 PM

Well, I guess what I am asking is if you can record two channels as once since the TA is essentially a USB TV tuner. My DVR has two internal tuners, and M Card allows for two tuners per card.

I've been lurking the HTPC forums for a while, but it seems like the planets are starting to align and there are some affordable HTPC options available. I want to use the TA as a USB tuner for Windows Media Center. Maybe I am not asking the right questions since this is all new to me as far as tuners go. :p No, the TA is not the equivalent of a USB tuner. Essentially what the TA does is provides for 2-way communications so can communicate back to cable headend, which UDCP devices such as TiVo or HTPC CableCard tuners cannot do. For tuning SDV channels there is some handshaking (2-way communications) needed and the TA fills in that missing capability.

For use in a PC you still need your own separate tuners and to tune encrypted channels you still need CableCard(s). What the TA will provide is the same that it does for TiVo - will allow you to tune SDV channels.

Up to this point it has not been possible to build your own HTPC with CableCard tuners. You had to buy a full/expensive OEM solution that was CableLabs approved.
That is all changing now with Windows 7 and some upcoming CableCard tuners which you will be able to buy as an add on component to any HTPC. Of particular interest is a new company called Ceton that will be releasing a single card with 4 tuners that supports CableCard and a Tuning Adapter. One wrinkle is that for Cisco TAs apparently the USB interface can only handle 2 streams at once and hence there may be a need for 2 TAs for a 4-tuner PC. From my understanding the Moto TAs (what we are using here) do not have that restriction and I think can handle up to 6 streams at once, therefore only 1 TA should be necessary. The M-type CableCard can also handle up to 6 streams at once, so only 1 M-card needed.

coolguy949

11-24-09, 05:41 PM

Thanks for the clarification. Looks like I will need to do some more thinking.

phdeane

11-24-09, 05:49 PM

From my understanding the Moto TAs (what we are using here) do not have that restriction and I think can handle up to 6 streams at once, therefore only 1 TA should be necessary.

Good to know, thanks!

The M-type CableCard can also handle up to 6 streams at once, so only 1 M-card needed.

I didn't know this either, but thought it was only two, so really good to know!

nocturne1

11-24-09, 06:39 PM

What if I wanted to order the NHL Season Pass? Would I need a Cox box? Is the NHL package considered PPV?

I think for PPV event type things, you can actually call them up and subscribe. Just no requesting from the box. I assume you can probably also do that for sports packages. But call Cox to be sure.

phdeane

11-24-09, 08:27 PM

Try using USB port #2 on the Tivo. I couldn't get it to work with USB port #1 for some reason. Then unplug the power from the adapter, wait 30 seconds, plug back in. If you see a red light, you are good to go. I also received an on screen message from the Tivo saying that a tuning adapter was plugged in. It does take about 15-20 minutes in order to stabilize. All channels come in great.

The only question I have is how do we utilize Channel 1 (on Demand)? The Tivo remote cannot change the screen so you cannot access the menus?

When I first plug in the TA, I see a red light come on, but then it goes away after blinking a couple times. The amber light keeps blinking...going on ten minutes now. Is this what you saw, or did the red light stay on during the 15-20 minutes?

Also, to activate, did you just use the automatic service, or did you speak with customer support rep?

Edit: okay, I got it; the red light just blinks briefly. I guess I just wasn't patient enough waiting for the amber light to go solid. It works great now.

phdeane

11-25-09, 12:46 AM

Just had a strange event. My TiVo HD just rebooted while I was watching "V." I've been watching shows on it since I installed the TA earlier this evening and haven't had any issues, so my guess is the TA is causing this. It has since come back up and seems okay, but this is not what I want to deal with.

I should mention I also have the 1 TB Western Digital external drive.

Realizing we've only had the TAs for a short time, has anyone with the TA had a spontaneous reboot?

moyekj

11-25-09, 03:22 AM

J
Realizing we've only had the TAs for a short time, has anyone with the TA had a spontaneous reboot? Solid as a rock so far for me for both TAs. But I don't have expanders attached.
If you do happen to get another reboot that would make the TA connection suspicious I would try using the other USB port on your TiVo for the TA connection.

jkchan83

11-25-09, 10:31 AM

When I first plug in the TA, I see a red light come on, but then it goes away after blinking a couple times. The amber light keeps blinking...going on ten minutes now. Is this what you saw, or did the red light stay on during the 15-20 minutes?

Also, to activate, did you just use the automatic service, or did you speak with customer support rep?

Edit: okay, I got it; the red light just blinks briefly. I guess I just wasn't patient enough waiting for the amber light to go solid. It works great now.

Got mine working, too. I also wasn't patient enough.

I was even able to cancel the service call before he came out so I didn't get charged!

phdeane

11-25-09, 01:53 PM

Got mine working, too. I also wasn't patient enough.

I was even able to cancel the service call before he came out so I didn't get charged!

As is said, patience is a virtue! As I read back through the instructions now, I see how it makes sense, but that is only after having suffered through the pain. The instructions should make it much more clear that the red light will blink only very briefly, but then will not come back on again. Basically, the amber light then blinks for 20+ minutes. It was during this time, I kept resetting (unplugging and plugging back in) the TA, assuming something was wrong. Had I just waited, it would have worked just fine.

Now if I can just get this reboot issue behind me.

phdeane

11-25-09, 01:54 PM

Solid as a rock so far for me for both TAs. But I don't have expanders attached.
If you do happen to get another reboot that would make the TA connection suspicious I would try using the other USB port on your TiVo for the TA connection.

AFAIK, it has only happened the one time so far, but it makes me nervous as so many channels are going SDV very soon. If it does happen again, I'll give the other USB port a try. I guess I could also disconnect the external HD and see how it goes.

moyekj

11-25-09, 02:18 PM

phdeane

11-25-09, 04:56 PM

FYI there is an easy way to tell if your TiVo has rebooted. I don't know if you are aware of this trick but I find it very useful:

When you pause you normally get the "pause ad" at the bottom of the screen. You can disable this "feature" as follows:
1. Play a recording and then press pause
2. When the pause ad comes up press down arrow to hide it
3. Resume play
4. Now press the following combination in quick succession with the remote:
Select, Play, Select, Pause, Select

What this does is it makes the overlay at bottom of screen disappear very quickly from this point on so you won't get annoyed any more by the pause ads. This feature then remains enabled until such time as you reboot your TiVo. Once your TiVo reboots it becomes very obvious it rebooted when you pause since the feature is disabled again.

No, thanks, I was not aware of that, although I've perused through many of the tricks before, so probably came across it and just didn't see the value. That's a great idea.

Is there also a way through the system information to see the last reboot? I quickly looked through the options, but as we've discussed before, reading all that fine print through my Slingbox (I'm at work) is not always easy.

moyekj

11-25-09, 05:19 PM

No, thanks, I was not aware of that, although I've perused through many of the tricks before, so probably came across it and just didn't see the value. That's a great idea.

Is there also a way through the system information to see the last reboot? I quickly looked through the options, but as we've discussed before, reading all that fine print through my Slingbox (I'm at work) is not always easy. Under DVR Diagnostics there is an item at the bottom of the list called Time Since OOB Tune Start in seconds which you can divide by 3600 to get number of hours since last reboot (time since OOB tuner made 1st connection). At least I think that correlates pretty well with time of last reboot.

phdeane

11-25-09, 06:26 PM

Under DVR Diagnostics there is an item at the bottom of the list called Time Since OOB Tune Start in seconds which you can divide by 3600 to get number of hours since last reboot (time since OOB tuner made 1st connection). At least I think that correlates pretty well with time of last reboot.

Okay, cool; it's been 16 hours, but then again, I haven't been using it since then.

moyekj

11-25-09, 06:30 PM

Just out of curiosity for those with the TA box do you have firmware different than version 01.35 (Nov 12, 2009)?
You can get version from:
Messages&Settings--Account&System Information--Tuning Adapter--Tuning Adapter Diagnostics--Code Modules

phdeane

11-25-09, 10:18 PM

moyekj

11-27-09, 10:58 AM

Now that us TiVo users have TA I did a little experiment to see how timeout for SDV channels may work. Before going to bed I tuned background tuner to an SDV channel (750) and foreground tuner to another SDV channel (749). This morning I turned on TV without any remote press on TiVo and saw the following message overlay from TiVo over still tuned/functioning channel 749:
Press SELECT if you are still watching this channel. Otherwise, it may become temporarily unavailable. Contact your cable provider for more information.
Full live buffers on both channels were still available. I don't know how long before such a message shows up, but it's at least several hours.

In any case this shows that SDV channels that are tuned for a period of time without any user interaction do have an elevated status of possibly being made unavailable should the bandwidth be needed, but do not actually time out if not needed. So I think this is a good, minimally intrusive implementation of SDV by Cox.

moyekj

11-27-09, 11:32 AM

Gadgetress has a blurb about TA availability:
http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/11/27/coxs-special-tivo-adapters-now-available-in-oc/27921/
However it contains an embarassing/ridiculous statement on many levels that I can't believe she included in the article:
“Well, I reviewed every single blessed HD channel Cox offers, now that I have my free, trusty Motorola Tuning Resolver (MTS). The picture quality on ALL HD channels is simply amazing! It makes my previous HD reception look positively awful. Please urge your TiVo audience to run, don’t walk, to their nearest Cox store to obtain their MTS. It makes a HUGE difference!”

MJCS

11-27-09, 01:47 PM

I have 2 tuners on my PC with 2 coax going to my tuners. I just need one tuning adapter right?

moyekj

11-27-09, 02:12 PM

I have 2 tuners on my PC with 2 coax going to my tuners. I just need one tuning adapter right? I think you need a separate TA for each tuning device. See:
http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Sarah/How-to-Use-Digital-Cable-Tuners-with-CableCARD-in-Windows-7-Media-Center/
If you are using multiple TV tuner cards, you’ll need separate tuning adapters for each and separate high-speed USB ports on your PC as well.
That's why it's probably wise to wait until the 4-tuner Ceton device is available instead of buying individual single tuner cards.

Will be interesting to find out about Cox OC's policy on TAs for HTPC tuners. Will they be freely available as they are for TiVo customers?

uiucsb

11-27-09, 03:35 PM

Whitearrow

11-27-09, 03:46 PM

Specifically:
1. Does cox HD with its rented dvr cost ~$17/mo?
2. Does the TiVo TCD652160 (20 hrs HD recording) work with Cox?
3. For the TiVo to received HD for both of its 2 tuners, do I need a series M CableCard?
4. How much does the CableCard installation and monthly fee cost? Is there a different fee for the regular and series M cards?
5. For the cablecard to work, do i need to get the free tuning adapter (released this week)?

6. Any other suggestions/comments you feel I should know?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes, or two S cards, but the installer told me they don't have those anymore
4. Installation is about $50, but you can usually get them to waive it if you complain enough :) The cable cards are $1.99 a month.
5. For all the channels to work, yes.
6. I was terrified of the hassle factor of the cable cards, and it kept me from switching to TiVo for a long, long time. It wasn't at all bad, and I'm really happy I switched.

moyekj

11-27-09, 03:49 PM

Recently I moved to Dana Point and for now only have a small, standard definition, old tube tv. Soon, I'll receive an HD LCD. I moved from Santa Barbara where I had HD through Cox, so I have years of experience with Cox, and the Scientific Atlanta 8300 DVR. I have some questions about OC Cox and their costs, etc. for HD and TiVo. Seems like the answers to my questions are scattered throughout this forum, but I want to make certain I have the most up-to-date knowledge. Thanks for your help!

Specifically:
1. Does cox HD with its rented dvr cost ~$17/mo?
2. Does the TiVo TCD652160 (20 hrs HD recording) work with Cox?
3. For the TiVo to received HD for both of its 2 tuners, do I need a series M CableCard?
4. How much does the CableCard installation and monthly fee cost? Is there a different fee for the regular and series M cards?
5. For the cablecard to work, do i need to get the free tuning adapter (released this week)?

6. Any other suggestions/comments you feel I should know?

Thanks much!
Cox OC uses the better Motorola DVR with Passport here.
1. That's about right
2. Yes
3. 1 M-Card or 2 S-Cards. Most likely though you will get an M-Card for a new installation since S-Cards are no longer produced. M-Card is preferrable anyway since you only pay for 1 card ($1.99/month).
4. $1.99/month per CableCard (M-Card or S-Card same). There is still a fairly expensive "installation fee" (I think around $50) for CableCards which some have been able to waive.
5. No, but if you want to receive any SDV channels then you will need the free TA. Currently all SD channels > 99 are SDV as are several HD channels. The TA is free anyway and seems stable so far, so no reason not to get one.

EDIT: I see whitearrow posted before mine went through. I'll leave mine anyway.

Whitearrow

11-27-09, 03:54 PM

I went and picked up one tuning adapter today, deciding I was going to go slowly with this. When went into the store, I made sure they associated the TA with the cable card on the TiVo where I wanted to install it (this does matter, so any two-tivo people should be sure to know which TA to install on which TiVo).

When I got home, the installation was fairly simple. I have to say I LOVE the short RF cable that Cox included in the box -- it was so much easier to connect than regular RF cables. It did take a full 20 minutes for the amber light to stay on continuously. All the channels work, except for 774 (E! HD) which gives me a "Searching for signal on: Cable In" message. If that's the only glitch I can live with it, for the twice a year I watch E! anyway.

I am happy to finally get FX in HD. It will make watching Damages that much more awesome. I know that Daily Show is not actually in HD. Is there any reason to change my season pass to 760 for the moment?

And btw thanks to everyone for the information, help and support here. If I waited for Cox I wouldn't know the TA's were even available yet.

chestnu1

11-27-09, 04:19 PM

moyekj

11-27-09, 04:29 PM

moyekj

11-27-09, 04:34 PM

When went into the store, I made sure they associated the TA with the cable card on the TiVo where I wanted to install it (this does matter, so any two-tivo people should be sure to know which TA to install on which TiVo). I don't think it matters. As long as both TAs are registered to your account (so they can be authorized) I think you can actually use them for any device you want. Cox may have some field binding them to CableCard(s) for tracking purposes. i.e. If you return your CableCard(s) then they will know to request an associated TA device.

BTW, I discovered you can unplug the USB connection to the TA from your TiVo and can continue to tune/record non-SDV channels as normal.

Whitearrow

11-27-09, 05:17 PM

774 (E! HD) and 746 (FOX NEWS HD) are not "officially" released yet and zap2it doesn't provide listings for them, however both tune fine for me (and no TA is needed for them since they are no SDV anyway).

Hrm. Something is going on, then. Neither of these tune for me on the Tivo with the TA, but both are there are the TiVo I haven't installed a TA on yet.

Any thoughts?

MJCS

11-27-09, 05:52 PM

I just installed my Tuning adapters. I am just waiting for the lights to become solid :).

moyekj

11-27-09, 06:47 PM

Hrm. Something is going on, then. Neither of these tune for me on the Tivo with the TA, but both are there are the TiVo I haven't installed a TA on yet.

Any thoughts? Not sure. For me they tune with or without TA attached. You should check DVR Diagnostics to see if they are getting a frequency assigned or not. They are both at 471MHz. If you see frequency assignments there but just a black/grey screen then that means an authorization or signal level problem (which you can also diagnose under Diagnostics) of some sort.

Whitearrow

11-27-09, 07:41 PM

moyekj

11-27-09, 09:30 PM

Rapidly reaching the limits of my techieness here :) The signal strength on 746 shows as 0, the signal strength on the other tuner (for channel 770) is 62.

I will probably just wait, unless there is some really simple fix. As long as it's just these two channels, I don't care really, but if additional channels are added that I can't tune, that may be an issue. Optimal signal strengths need to be 80 or higher, so sounds like you have a signal problem. The TA introduces some signal degradation so if you have a weak signal going into TA it will be even weaker coming out. As a comparison signal strengths for my channels are usually in the 90-100 range with SNR = 32-36 dB. Sounds like you could use a visit from Cox to boost your signals with better cables, connections, splitters etc.

MJCS

11-27-09, 10:07 PM

According to the tech support, the TA's are not supported for Media Center. :(

moyekj

11-27-09, 10:15 PM

According to the tech support, the TA's are not supported for Media Center. :( Well you got 2 of them didn't you? I wouldn't put much credence in 1st level tech support as they are probably mostly unaware of recent developments for Windows 7 Media Center which does officially support TAs (CableLabs approved just like for TiVos).

MJCS

11-27-09, 11:25 PM

Well you got 2 of them didn't you? I wouldn't put much credence in 1st level tech support as they are probably mostly unaware of recent developments for Windows 7 Media Center which does officially support TAs (CableLabs approved just like for TiVos).

Yeah I got 2 of them. Media center sees the TA's but is getting a "Segment Timeout"

Yeah. Cox is being lame and doe not allow Media Center on their network. According to the level 1 support person "If it is not a TiVO it will not sync with our network". What the !@#$ does that mean. Isnt there some FCC law forbidding this kind of BS.

FYI I got the same person on the phone the 2nd time I called. I will try to call tomorrow and get somebody different!

phdeane

11-27-09, 11:44 PM

774 (E! HD) and 746 (FOX NEWS HD) are not "officially" released yet and zap2it doesn't provide listings for them, however both tune fine for me (and no TA is needed for them since they are no SDV anyway).

Yes, they tune fine for me, too. I just wish Tribune would get the guide data for Fox News HD. I still haven't switched my SPs over to the HD channel. I guess I could do a manual recording, but without guide data, everything is in 30-minute increments - a little frustrating. I suppose when we get the rest of the channels in mid-December, they'll get caught up then. TiVo is asking me to fax them an "Official Channel Lineup," but not even Cox (http://ww2.cox.com/residential/orangecounty/tv/channel-lineup.cox#14) shows the channels yet.

I'm just so amazed at how much better the HD PQ is now with the TA (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17611364#post17611364). :rolleyes:

coolguy949

11-27-09, 11:53 PM

Can't you just say you have a Tivo to get a TA + M card and use it for your HTPC? Or are they required to install it?

phdeane

11-28-09, 01:55 AM

Can't you just say you have a Tivo to get a TA + M card and use it for your HTPC? Or are they required to install it?

I would think the TA or CableCARD would relay information back to Cox.

moyekj

11-28-09, 12:01 PM

Yeah I got 2 of them. Media center sees the TA's but is getting a "Segment Timeout"

Yeah. Cox is being lame and doe not allow Media Center on their network. According to the level 1 support person "If it is not a TiVO it will not sync with our network". What the !@#$ does that mean. Isnt there some FCC law forbidding this kind of BS.

FYI I got the same person on the phone the 2nd time I called. I will try to call tomorrow and get somebody different! You're probably going to have to get help from Microsoft or Media Center forums. It's extremely unlikely anyone with Cox has tested out TAs with HTPCs as their focus was to get TiVos working.

phdeane

11-28-09, 12:31 PM

Gadgetress has a blurb about TA availability:
http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/11/27/coxs-special-tivo-adapters-now-available-in-oc/27921/
However it contains an embarassing/ridiculous statement on many levels that I can't believe she included in the article:

As is usually the case (one-day delay), this same article appeared in today's OC Register Business section, but this time she left off the crazy reader quote. Also, I realize it was there before, but this part was mentioned in regards to HTPC tuner cards (or non-TiVo):

"They will need an adapter and right now, Cox is providing one from Motorola for free to affected *TiVo* customers. Non-TiVo CableCARD customers are still waiting for an adapter."

Whitearrow

11-28-09, 01:33 PM

Optimal signal strengths need to be 80 or higher, so sounds like you have a signal problem. The TA introduces some signal degradation so if you have a weak signal going into TA it will be even weaker coming out. As a comparison signal strengths for my channels are usually in the 90-100 range with SNR = 32-36 dB. Sounds like you could use a visit from Cox to boost your signals with better cables, connections, splitters etc.

But isn't it odd that only these two channels are impacted? Everything else is fine.

phdeane

11-28-09, 03:07 PM

But isn't it odd that only these two channels are impacted? Everything else is fine.

I just looked at the diagnostics for channel 770 and my signal strength is at 68 with an SNR of 32 dB, yet the channel tunes fine for me.

As for 746, I get an even weaker 56, while the SNR is 31 dB.

By way of comparrison, for channel 757, I get 81 and 34 dB, for channel 707 I get 87 and 35 dB, for 756, it's 62 and 31 dB, and for channel 715, it's 68 and 32 dB.

Most of those fall below the 80, and I already have an amplifier connected. This may explain why my download speed has been much lower lately (6 Mbps to 9 Mbps vs. 15 - 20 before).

Kevin - could you take a look at these same channels and see what you are getting - Whitearrow, too?

moyekj

11-28-09, 04:35 PM

uiucsb

11-28-09, 04:50 PM

How do I see the signal strength levels? I'll report my numbers with the setups pre/post HD (i.e. cablecard, hdmi, tivo, etc.).

phdeane

11-28-09, 05:09 PM

phdeane

11-28-09, 05:11 PM

How do I see the signal strength levels? I'll report my numbers with the setups pre/post HD (i.e. cablecard, hdmi, tivo, etc.).

Make sure you are tuned (both tuners) to the channels you want. Then:

TiVo Central >> Messages & Settings >> Account & System Information >> DVR Diagnostics. The first page will be your first tuned channel; two pages down will get you your second.

phdeane

11-28-09, 05:39 PM

Okay, just checked out my wiring. I had forgotten that the last time the Cox tech was out here, he placed a 4-way splitter after the amplifier, so I just placed a 2-way splitter in between the amplifier and the 4-way splitter.

One end of the 2-way goes (about 50') to another 2-way in my main cabinet which then splits twice, one to my Moto Tuning Adapter/TiVo and the other to my cable modem.

The other end of the 2-way goes to the 4-way splitter and then on to the various locations in my house.

Just doing that bumped up the signal on 770 to 81 and the signal on 746 to 68. The latter is still under 80, but improved. Whether I see any noticeable difference in PQ or otherwise remains to be seen.

moyekj

11-28-09, 06:26 PM

Just doing that bumped up the signal on 770 to 81 and the signal on 746 to 68. The latter is still under 80, but improved. Whether I see any noticeable difference in PQ or otherwise remains to be seen. You should also look at RS correctable/uncorrectable error counts. If signal strength doesn't jump all over the place and you don't get any RS uncorrectable errors then it may be OK. If you get excessive RS uncorrectable errors you will see defects, and if you get excessive RS correctable errors then that means potential trouble.

phdeane

11-28-09, 06:40 PM

You should also look at RS correctable/uncorrectable error counts. If signal strength doesn't jump all over the place and you don't get any RS uncorrectable errors then it may be OK. If you get excessive RS uncorrectable errors you will see defects, and if you get excessive RS correctable errors then that means potential trouble.

On 746 the signal strength keeps jumping between 68 and 75 (32-33 dB), but 0 RS Uncorrected errors.

As a side note, no spontaneous reboots since that one a few days back. While I was impatiently waiting for the amber light to go solid on the TA, I twice rebooted the TiVo by unplugging and plugging in the power. After the spontaneous reboot, I did do a system restart right after it happened, so maybe it just needed a gentle entry into life with the new TA.

Whitearrow

11-28-09, 06:45 PM

moyekj

11-28-09, 07:04 PM

770 - strength 56 SNR 31 db
757 - strength 56 SNR 30 db
756 - strength 45 SNR 29 db
715 - strength 56 SNR 31 db
707 - strength 45 SNR 29 db

All these channels look ok to me.

I already have some kind of amplifier Cox installed when I first got my TV hooked up here 6 years ago. It is on a splitter because my cable modem is on the same outlet. Those are pretty terrible numbers. I'm surprised you don't have pixellation/breakups with those kinds of numbers. If you check RS corrected/uncorrected after leaving channels tuned for a while I'd be surprised if they stay at 0.

Whitearrow

11-28-09, 07:09 PM

moyekj

11-28-09, 07:36 PM

Uncorrected stays at 0, but corrected gets pretty high. I have no idea if these numbers were the same without the tuning adapter.

I don't get regular pixellation or breakups -- when I do, it's usually on a specific show and checking around here other people report it too.

I am afraid of calling cox to come out just for some numbers on the screen. The guy is just likely to say as long as everything's coming in, what's the problem? I'm still skeptical that 746 and 774 not coming in are related to this, considering every other channel works fine. As long as signal strength doesn't jump all over the place and RS uncorrected count remains low you won't see picture defects. The fact that you are getting high RS corrected errors means there is a lot of extra processing happening to clean up errors in the signal which means marginal signal levels. Adding a TA or any further splits in the feed can easily push marginal into sub-marginal.
As long as you are happy with what you are getting then stick to the old adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

Personally I'm OCD about those kinds of things and I would hate to see numbers like that and would be all over trying to improve it...

Whitearrow

11-28-09, 07:59 PM

You're also a guy... unfortunately 90% of cable techs tend to rhetorically pat me on the head and treat me like a "girl," which is both infuriating and counterproductive to getting the problem actually resolved. So I'm not in a hurry to get them out here if I don't really have to.

MJCS

11-28-09, 11:17 PM

The guy yesterday was not too bright. I just called and said "my TA's have been plugged in for about a day" and she responded with "Well it looks like your TA's are not sync'd with the cards you have...one second". About 30 seconds later they went solid. Thank you for your help :)

MJCS

11-28-09, 11:22 PM

It looks like each TA supports up 4 streams:
SOCKET PORT STATE:
01 READY
02 UNUSED
03 UNUSED
04 UNUSED

moyekj

11-28-09, 11:47 PM

It looks like each TA supports up 4 streams:
SOCKET PORT STATE:
01 READY
02 UNUSED
03 UNUSED
04 UNUSED I don't really know what that means since on my TiVo if I am tuned to 2 SDV channels at once (with 2 CableCards) it still only shows port 1 in use and other 3 unused.

chestnu1

11-29-09, 12:17 AM

It looks like each TA supports up 4 streams:
SOCKET PORT STATE:
01 READY
02 UNUSED
03 UNUSED
04 UNUSED

Actually the Motorola TA's support up to 6 streams.

MJCS

11-29-09, 01:20 AM

phdeane

11-29-09, 02:34 AM

What should I do about a signal reception issue I am having. My media center is located in my bedroom which also has my cable modem. I am using a splitter for the cable modem and 2 ATI tuners which gets lossier now since I added the TA's.

Should I get a powered line conditioner?

Have a tech come out and check the signal. He'll first make some adjustments outside your house, and then, if necessary, add an amplifier to your system. I have three such amplifiers from being with Cox for so many years.

fenwayfan

11-29-09, 02:49 AM

My signals look pretty good on those various channels:
707: strength=100, SNR=36
715: strength=90-95, SNR=35
746: strength=86, SNR=34
756: strength=90, SNR=34
757: strength=95-100, SNR=35
770: strength=95-100, SNR=35

As I mentioned I think I remember reading somewhere a strength below 80 is marginal for TiVos so it may be hit and miss if you can tune weaker ones than that.

Here are my numbers of the same channels on my 2 Tivo sharing the same coax from the wall (Coax --> 2 way splitter --> TA(2) --> Tivos) in the living room. I'm pretty impressed with the signal strength.

Tivo HD:
707: strength=100, SNR=37
715: strength=100, SNR=36
746: strength=87, SNR=34
756: strength=100, SNR=37
757: strength=100, SNR=37
770: strength=100, SNR=37

Tivo HDXL:
707: strength=100, SNR=37
715: strength=100, SNR=36
746: strength=87, SNR=35
756: strength=100, SNR=37
757: strength=100, SNR=37
770: strength=100, SNR=37

On another note, I've been using this laptop based DVR setup in my bedroom and I'm very impressed with Windows 7 (x64) Media center:
- Laptop Gateway P-6822 Core 2 Duo 1.5Ghz, 4GB Ram, 750GB internal HD, gigabit ethernet
- Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Media Center
- HdHomerun (networked dual tuner, clear QAM channels only) in the office.

I can watch a pre-recorded program while recording 2 program at the same time without any issue. I had Vista 32bits before I upgraded to Windows 7 and it was really slow.

phdeane

11-29-09, 02:59 AM

Here are my numbers of the same channels on my 2 Tivo sharing the same coax from the wall (Coax --> 2 way splitter --> TA(2) --> Tivos) in the living room. I'm pretty impressed with the signal strength.

Those are pretty impressive. You mentioned you have just one 2-way splitter, but what about internet access?

fenwayfan

11-29-09, 03:31 AM

Those are pretty impressive. You mentioned you have just one 2-way splitter, but what about internet access?

My cable modem is in my office upstairs where I actually have a 4-way splitter.
Coax --> Cable modem --> Apple airport extreme wireless N router
--> HDHomerun Tuner 1
--> HDHomerun Tuner 2
--> Not used
My internet has been really solid with no drop at all.

A Cox tech did actually come 5/6 months ago and replaced all the wirings/connectors outside my subdivision.

phdeane

11-29-09, 04:32 PM

My cable modem is in my office upstairs where I actually have a 4-way splitter.
Coax --> Cable modem --> Apple airport extreme wireless N router
--> HDHomerun Tuner 1
--> HDHomerun Tuner 2
--> Not used
My internet has been really solid with no drop at all.

A Cox tech did actually come 5/6 months ago and replaced all the wirings/connectors outside my subdivision.

Okay thanks. That means that your MPOE (minimum point of entry) is split at least two times, one in the living room and one in the office. On top of that, you are splitting the signal twice again before it gets to the TA. And then it goes through each TA before getting to each TiVo. All that with no amplifier and you are still getting those numbers.

In my system, I have essentially the same number of splits (one at the MPOE and another at my cabinet), but immediately upon entering my house (MPOE) I have an amplifier, so I definitely need to get a Cox tech out here so he (or she) can bump up my signal a bit. I'm also hopeful that will bring my access speed back up to the previous level I enjoyed - although I'm still getting 2+ Mbps upload, so can't complain too much. :)

moyekj

11-29-09, 05:23 PM

Also as a comparison my setup to the TiVo I used above for signal strength readings is very messy:
POE--8-way amp/splitter--2-way splitter--2 way splitter--TA--TiVo
(In bedroom I need 5 RF connections: cable modem, ReplayTV, MoCA, TiVo, TA but the TA & MoCA do passthru so only 3 way split needed in the room which is accomplished with 2 2-way splitters)

For my other TiVo downstairs connected to bigger TV it's a much cleaner path (and uses better shielded RG 6 cables):
POE--8-way amp/splitter--TA--TiVo
(and not surprisingly the signal strength & SNR numbers are a little better)

The 8-way amp/splitter is one I bought (Electroline), not Cox provided and I do have 3 unused splits on it properly terminated.

Whitearrow

11-29-09, 08:39 PM

I was looking at my signal strength issue today -- upstairs, my non-TA TiVo was in the 80's on both tuners in the 700's. So to see if it was an issue with my downstairs connection or with the TA, I took the TA out downstairs and reconnected my cable. 704 is at 81 signal strength and 33 db, with no errors after 2 minutes. Channel 715 is also at 81 and 33 with 1 corrected error. So it looks like the TA is definitely causing significant signal degradation and errors with my downstairs setup. 746 and 774 both tune without the TA, and they wouldn't tune at all with it.

Is there any gadget I can hookup myself to boost the signal between my cable and the TA?

ETA: Just to explain better what my current setup is at my downstairs tv. When I first moved in, Cox put an amplifier on the line coming out of the wall, which goes into a three-way splitter (I could live with a two way, but it's a three way now). So:

Wall line into powered amp thingie --> three way splitter --> Tivo, Cable modem and DVD recorder (which I don't really use to record directly from tv anymore, and could live without the cable in). If that helps!

MJCS

11-29-09, 10:09 PM

I cant watch storm chasers right now. I am going to get cox to come out this week.

BTW the TA's get really hot so make sure they have enough air

MJCS

11-29-09, 10:28 PM

Discovery is averaging 12Mbps. Ouch

moyekj

11-30-09, 12:30 AM

phdeane

11-30-09, 12:46 AM

phdeane

11-30-09, 01:03 AM

Also as a comparison my setup to the TiVo I used above for signal strength readings is very messy:...

It just goes to show you that even with that many splits, good hardware can make a huge difference.

moyekj

11-30-09, 10:17 AM

Whitearrow

11-30-09, 02:52 PM

If I wanted to try a higher quality amplifier, can anyone recommend a specific brand/model? Preferably with a link please? :)

uiucsb

11-30-09, 04:06 PM

For the sake of information overload, below are SNR values for my apt. in DP. I'm not sure how the cable enters the building, but from the wall I have the following:
wall -> F/F coax barrel connector -> 2-way splitter -> Motorola DCH3200.
On the 2-way splitter, the second coax cable is not connected to anything.

The values are from the moto diagnostics pages. (enter by pressing, one at a time, cable -> power -> select. on screen d04, Inband Status, there are frequency and SNR values listed for the tuner.

Motorola DCH3200:
707: freq=267 MHz, SNR=37
715: freq=669 MHz, SNR=35
746: freq=471 MHz, SNR=33
756: freq=789 MHz, SNR=35
757: freq=615 MHz, SNR=35
770: freq=699 MHz, SNR=35
774: freq=471 MHz, SNR=33

811: freq=627 MHz, SNR=35
860: freq=771 MHz, SNR=35
46: freq=525 MHz, SNR=35-36

I tested the SNR after removing the splitter and connecting the moto straight to the wall. Generally the SNR remained the same, but for a couple channels, SNR actually went down slightly. I reinserted the splitter, and the SNR went back to its higher value.

Anyway, I'll let you know what the signal strength and SNR is after a tivo is installed. (window for that forthcoming post is big: depends on tivo shipping speed and cox cablecard installation scheduling) It'll be interesting to see the differences reported by the two boxes.

moyekj

11-30-09, 05:02 PM

If I wanted to try a higher quality amplifier, can anyone recommend a specific brand/model? Preferably with a link please? :) Something like this 4-port amp/splitter will probably do (or there is a 2-port version as well):
http://www.amazon.com/Electroline-EDA-2400-Booster-Amplifier-Package/dp/B001222256/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1259617744&sr=1-1

If you don't plan on using all output ports then you should also get accompanying F Type 75 ohm terminators for any unused outputs.

As I mentioned though, you should try connecting without any splits to your TiVo (or TA) to get an idea of signal strength that way. If that is still low then an amplifier is not going to help and you need to have Cox come in and try and improve your signals to the drop. i.e. If your drop into the house signal strength/SNR is bad to begin with then no amplifier is going to improve on it.

phdeane

11-30-09, 05:02 PM

FYI, for information on ideal signal levels for TiVo S3 & HD units see:
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/150/kw/signal%20strength/r_id/100041
Click on "Show the steps" under following categories:
Checking signal lock and signal strength
Checking the signal quality

From the tables given above looks like newer THD units are more forgiving than the original S3 units as far as minimum signal strength to be able to get a picture, but in both cases TiVo recommends signal strength >= 80 and SNR must be >= 29.

Thanks for the link.

It's also worth repeating to those who either have crappy amplifiers or are overamplifying (as is mentioned in the TiVo link) the signal, that you are just as likely to see PQ issues as those who do not have a strong signal.

Press CHAN UP/CHAN DOWN to check the signal on each of your digital cable channels. You can also enter channel numbers using the buttons on your remote. A signal strength of 80-99 is ideal, but the signal strength can be lower and still give a good picture, depending on your DVR model and the type of modulation used on the channel. A signal strength of 100 may give a good picture (as in the example above), but if you are seeing picture quality issues, *it may be too high*. To troubleshoot further, you must look at the DVR Diagnostics screen when the DVR is tuned to a problem channel.

moyekj

11-30-09, 05:23 PM

Thanks for the link.

It's also worth repeating to those who either have crappy amplifiers or are overamplifying (as is mentioned in the TiVo link) the signal, that you are just as likely to see PQ issues as those who do not have a strong signal. Signal strength too high used to be a major issue affecting mostly FIOS users but I think the last TiVo software update fixed that problem such that overly high signal levels should no longer be a problem. TiVoJerry actually mentioned the fix should actually help for any cable provider, not just FIOS:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7362339#post7362339
Of course if you are simply excessively boosting signal level then that can lead to excessive noise and you can screw up your SNR numbers which are ultimately more important than signal strength. So of course over-amplification will inevitably cause problems as well. The ideal solution is to get the numbers just right at the POE and then put hardware in place after that point that will minimally degrade the signal from that point on.

phdeane

11-30-09, 05:58 PM

The ideal solution is to get the numbers just right at the POE and then put hardware in place after that point that will minimally degrade the signal from that point on.

Exactly!

phdeane

12-01-09, 06:29 PM

Just got a new error message on TiVo:

A technical problem is preventing you from receiving all cable services at this time.

Please call your cable operator and report error code 161-38 to have this problem resolved

It seems as if everything is fine, but has anyone seen this before?

moyekj

12-01-09, 06:56 PM

Just got a new error message on TiVo:

It seems as if everything is fine, but has anyone seen this before? A few years ago I got 161-1 error on 1 of my S-Cards and could not tune encrypted channels with the tuner associated with that card (other tuner & CableCard were fine). Turned out the problem was the S-card went bad and once Cox replaced it everything was fine. I don't know what 161-38 error means but I would make sure you tune both tuners to encrypted channels that you receive (pretty much any digital channel other than the locals) and make sure they tune fine. If you do a search for 161-38 in TiVo forums (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=51) there are many results but not sure if any conclusive ones on that particular error. Good luck!

EDIT: CableCard error codes can be found here:
http://www.opencable.com/downloads/specs/OC-SP-CCIF2.0-I07-060803.pdf
161-38 you can find in the table on page 252.
"Card fails to respond to ca_info_inq within 5 seconds"

If you search for ca_info_inq within that PDF document there are several references to it, including this blurb on page 96:
"Under normal operating conditions, this session will never be closed".

It sounds like your CableCard did not respond in time to a request from the headend. If the message does not keep appearing I would assume for now it's a transient problem. If message keeps coming up then I think it's time to call Cox and perhaps a new card.

phdeane

12-01-09, 07:48 PM

A few years ago I got 161-1 error on 1 of my S-Cards and could not tune encrypted channels with the tuner associated with that card (other tuner & CableCard were fine). Turned out the problem was the S-card went bad and once Cox replaced it everything was fine. I don't know what 161-38 error means but I would make sure you tune both tuners to encrypted channels that you receive (pretty much any digital channel other than the locals) and make sure they tune fine. If you do a search for 161-38 in TiVo forums (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=51) there are many results but not sure if any conclusive ones on that particular error. Good luck!

EDIT: CableCard error codes can be found here:
http://www.opencable.com/downloads/specs/OC-SP-CCIF2.0-I07-060803.pdf
161-38 you can find in the table on page 252.
"Card fails to respond to ca_info_inq within 5 seconds"

If you search for ca_info_inq within that PDF document there are several references to it, including this blurb on page 96:
"Under normal operating conditions, this session will never be closed".

It sounds like your CableCard did not respond in time to a request from the headend. If the message does not keep appearing I would assume for now it's a transient problem. If message keeps coming up then I think it's time to call Cox and perhaps a new card.

Thanks for the thorough response. That is one long document.

Hopefully it doesn't happen again, but between the (one) reboot with the TA, the questionable signal strength, reduced download speeds, and now this error, I'm getting a little concerned.

I'll reseat the CableCARD and do a system restart, too.

Thanks again.

screenname1234

12-01-09, 08:13 PM

moyekj

12-02-09, 01:15 AM

Anyone connect their Panasonic HDTV directly to the cable to get clearQAM local channels in the Irvine area? I have such a setup but it doesn't work very well these last few days. Channel 2-1, 5-1, 9-1, 13-1 and 50-1 have a lot of break up, 4-1 and couple other channels are not showing up. Channel 7-1 and 11-1 work well. I just tried out those channels on a TV with clear QAM tuner and they all worked for me (except 13-1 which moved and needed a re-scan - I haven't scanned since a few months ago). 4-1 was there for me too and thus hasn't moved since last scan. I didn't watch them very long while checking but didn't see any breakups while I tuned them.

joeracerx

12-02-09, 12:46 PM

moyekj

12-02-09, 12:54 PM

I have a related question. When I go into my TV's menu system to scan the cable for clear QAM channels, it asks if my cable system is STD, HRC or IRC. Can you tell me which one Cox is? I've always use STD (standard) and it seems to work.

oscardeuce

12-03-09, 01:48 PM

Just got a tuning adaptor in the Palos Verdes area. Couldn't get it to work- flashing yellow light, got the red flash, just kept getting the flashing yellow. Phone support worked with me, then sent a tech out. After fighting it for an hour, he tried another TA. Worked right away, so I guess they're getting some bad adaptors out of the box. The guy who came out was very professional, but did say they hadn't had much training on them.

One other thing: While on the phone with support, the guy said they have some problems in OC that seem to be location based. Some areas the TAs just don't want to work well. Said they're working on it, but no solution yet.

Whitearrow

12-03-09, 02:41 PM

I flipped to FX-HD (717) last night and Nip/Tuck did not appear to be in HD -- it had bars around all four sides. Are FX originals in HD?

Islanti

12-03-09, 03:00 PM

I flipped to FX-HD (717) last night and Nip/Tuck did not appear to be in HD -- it had bars around all four sides. Are FX originals in HD?Sons of Anarchy is in HD but I'm not sure about any of the other FX Originals.

nocturne1

12-03-09, 07:50 PM

I flipped to FX-HD (717) last night and Nip/Tuck did not appear to be in HD -- it had bars around all four sides. Are FX originals in HD?

Didn't see last night's, but last week's episode was HD....

Whitearrow

12-03-09, 09:23 PM

Weird... maybe I thought I hit the 7 in front of 17 but actually didn't.

MJCS

12-04-09, 10:15 AM

It turns out that my signal problem was due to a bad coax coming from my splitter to my TA. I did however purchase a 4 port electroline splitter from ebay with some 75ohm caps.

Thanks for the help

moyekj

12-04-09, 01:56 PM

dmcgown

12-04-09, 05:43 PM

I just tried out those channels on a TV with clear QAM tuner and they all worked for me (except 13-1 which moved and needed a re-scan - I haven't scanned since a few months ago). 4-1 was there for me too and thus hasn't moved since last scan. I didn't watch them very long while checking but didn't see any breakups while I tuned them.

I recently moved to Mission Viejo and I subscribed to Cox for HSI only. With my TVs plugged in to the cable outlet directly, I get 2-1, 4-1, 5-1 and 9-1 in HD perfectly. 13-1 is there in HD but I have to go to 118-686 to find it. I can only find 11-1 in SD (at 90-87). And 7-1 seems to be non-existent in HD or SD. Tried with two different TV brands at different cable jacks in my house and re-scanned multiple times and got the same result. What could be causing 7-1 to be unavailable to me and 11 to be unavailable in HD? Could it be splitters in my house? Or is more likely to be Cox just messing with the clear QAM in my area? How would I troubleshoot? FWIW, my Internet connection is showing a pretty solid 20Mbps down and 3Mbps up and the tech that came out a few weeks ago said my signal strength inside the house was excellent.

I know I shouldn't complain since I am paying for HSI service and not TV service, but I only want the local stations and I am trying to avoid installing a great big antenna in the attic if I can avoid it.

uiucsb

12-04-09, 05:44 PM

Make sure you are tuned (both tuners) to the channels you want. Then:

TiVo Central >> Messages & Settings >> Account & System Information >> DVR Diagnostics. The first page will be your first tuned channel; two pages down will get you your second.

Probably an obvious question, but how do I make sure both tuners are on the same channel? Or, do you mean I can check two stations at once by setting one channel to record and then tune to a 2nd channel?

BTW, Cox installed the CableCards into my new Tivo HD. One note of interest is that 2 single-stream cards were installed because they were out of M cards. (installation took 2 hours, not sure why other than some normal technological sync issues, I guess) I stopped by the San Clemente Cox office and asked about TAs. The employee said it was my lucky day since they just received them today. I haven't installed it yet because I want to see what the SNR readings are before TA installation.

moyekj

12-04-09, 06:11 PM

I recently moved to Mission Viejo and I subscribed to Cox for HSI only. With my TVs plugged in to the cable outlet directly, I get 2-1, 4-1, 5-1 and 9-1 in HD perfectly. 13-1 is there in HD but I have to go to 118-686 to find it. I can only find 11-1 in SD (at 90-87). And 7-1 seems to be non-existent in HD or SD. Tried with two different TV brands at different cable jacks in my house and re-scanned multiple times and got the same result. What could be causing 7-1 to be unavailable to me and 11 to be unavailable in HD? Could it be splitters in my house? Or is more likely to be Cox just messing with the clear QAM in my area? How would I troubleshoot? FWIW, my Internet connection is showing a pretty solid 20Mbps down and 3Mbps up and the tech that came out a few weeks ago said my signal strength inside the house was excellent.

I know I shouldn't complain since I am paying for HSI service and not TV service, but I only want the local stations and I am trying to avoid installing a great big antenna in the attic if I can avoid it.
Since you don't have TV service it's likely there's a high pass frequency filter on your drop. The channels you mentioned you can tune are in the 591-657 MHz range whereas 7-1 & 11-1 are at 267 MHz. Your cable modem downloads operate in the 561-567 MHz range. So most likely Cox is filtering out lower frequencies in your drop so you can't get the analog channels or digital (QAM) channels much below 560 MHz or so.

moyekj

12-04-09, 06:15 PM

Probably an obvious question, but how do I make sure both tuners are on the same channel? Or, do you mean I can check two stations at once by setting one channel to record and then tune to a 2nd channel? There is information about both tuners on same page, so yes you can check 2 channels at a time. Tune 1st channel then press Live to switch to other tuner and tune 2nd channel and then visit Diagnostics page to see info on those 2 channels.

uiucsb

12-04-09, 06:24 PM

moyekj

12-04-09, 08:46 PM

Here are my numbers in Dana Point on a new Tivo HD. The signal come from the wall -> 2-way splitter -> Tivo HD. I haven't installed the tuning adapter yet.

Tivo HD:
707: strength=100, SNR=37-38
715: strength=100, SNR=36-37
746: strength=100, SNR=35-36
756: strength=100, SNR=37-38
757: strength=100, SNR=37-38
770: no signal Yes, those are healthy numbers. I don't think you will find they will degrade much with TA in the path.
I think it's becoming very clear that Whitearrow and to less extent phdeane readings are sub-optimal.

Whitearrow

12-04-09, 09:29 PM

I get that my readings with the TA aren't good, I just don't understand why the TA is dropping them from the 80's down to the 50's. I already tried a different coax from the TA to the Tivo with no improvement.

phdeane

12-05-09, 01:50 AM

Yes, those are healthy numbers. I don't think you will find they will degrade much with TA in the path.
I think it's becoming very clear that Whitearrow and to less extent phdeane readings are sub-optimal.

Just to give an update on my signal strength (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17617993#post17617993), for whatever reason when I added the 2-way splitter the other day, I forgot to properly terminate the now open connection on the 4-way splitter. I just put a terminator on the splitter and my signal strength increased to 87 on both 746 and 770. I even get 100 on quite a few channels that previously were in the 80s.

I did get another reboot yesterday, but this time my TiVo was not responding to remote commands, so I kept trying various commands with my remote, but after several button pushes, the TiVo rebooted. I've actually had the TiVo stop responding to remote commands a couple of times before and was forced to reboot by unplugging / plugging back in. I can't help but think the external HD causes these issues, but who knows.

moyekj

12-05-09, 02:36 AM

JI've actually had the TiVo stop responding to remote commands a couple of times before and was forced to reboot by unplugging / plugging back in. I can't help but think the external HD causes these issues, but who knows. Yes if I were to upgrade drive space I would opt for internal drive upgrade rather than external. However I've been getting along fine with my 2 S3s with original 250GB drives and season passes evenly distributed across both. Since I record mostly from network channels a while back to help with conflicts I decided to have all ABC & FOX on 1 unit and all NBC & CBS recordings on the other. That's a pretty easy way to minimize conflicts as well as deciding which season passes should go where.

Haven't had the need for more storage since I try and watch within a day or two of recording and anything I want to keep longer I offload to PC using TTG.

However had I bought THD units with 160GB drives that certainly would not have been enough and I would have just upgraded the internal drives (much more reliable).

Was the problem of lack of response to remote presses present before TA was ever attached?

pjschaffer

12-05-09, 01:41 PM

At the risk of jinxing myself I must say that so far I have not had any issues with both my Tuning Adapters much to my surprise. Considering posts in the TiVo forums related to problems with Cisco TAs I thought we might be in for a rough ride, but so far these Moto TAs and Cox OC headend seem to be playing fairly well together, at least for me.

I've got to agree. One week in with my two TAs and so far no issues. As a side note, I did get a letter in the mail yesterday advising me that the TAs were available.

phdeane

12-05-09, 05:30 PM

Was the problem of lack of response to remote presses present before TA was ever attached?

I guess the main reason I did the external was due to the warranty, although I've now heard that TiVo probably still would have honored the warranty should an issue have occurred. Now that I am past the warranty period (at least I think it was only 90 days), I may consider adding an internal drive instead.

As for the not responding to remote commands, as mentioned it has now happened three times. Two were before I had the TA, so it may have exasperated the situation, and thus caused the uncontrolled reboot this time, but is probably not the cause of the non remote response. It's not an IR issue, as I have a free iPhone app that controls my TiVo through Wi-Fi and it won't respond that way either. In fact, the amber light still illuminates with remote commands; it just does nothing.

The other two times it happened, a simple (albeit long) unplug/plug reboot restored remote normalcy. The problem this time was that I had recordings going. I should have just let it go until the recordings were done, but I started repeatedly pressing remote commands. I should have known repeated remote commands may cause an already unstable TiVo to crash, but live and learn. By the time it restarted, and the TA did its update, I missed 20 minutes of both recordings. Fortunately, I had one of the recordings on my Cox DVR and the other on both my Cox DVR and my S2 TiVo.

ketchup201

12-05-09, 07:41 PM

Hi all,

I have to TiVo HD units, each with 2 cablecards and an MTR700 apiece. Picture is fabulous and I've had 0 problems. Patience was key when installing the MTR700 - it took me 30 solid minutes for everything to start working.

But what about PPV? Just so that I understand, it appears that I can order PPV movies via the web, and view them on the TiVo, but I can't use the TiVo to order PPV movies.

Does this sound right?

phdeane

12-05-09, 08:01 PM

moyekj

12-07-09, 02:01 AM

774 (E! HD) and 746 (FOX NEWS HD) are not "officially" released yet and zap2it doesn't provide listings for them, however both tune fine for me (and no TA is needed for them since they are no SDV anyway).

Yes, they tune fine for me, too. I just wish Tribune would get the guide data for Fox News HD. I still haven't switched my SPs over to the HD channel. I guess I could do a manual recording, but without guide data, everything is in 30-minute increments - a little frustrating. I suppose when we get the rest of the channels in mid-December, they'll get caught up then. TiVo is asking me to fax them an "Official Channel Lineup," but not even Cox shows the channels yet. Well better late than never, 746 & 774 finally have listings for zap2it & TiVos now... (probably because Cox OC channel lineup page (http://ww2.cox.com/residential/orangecounty/tv/channel-lineup.cox) finally shows them).

phdeane

12-07-09, 02:09 AM

Well better late than never, 746 & 774 finally have listings for zap2it & TiVos now... (probably because Cox OC channel lineup page (http://ww2.cox.com/residential/orangecounty/tv/channel-lineup.cox) finally shows them).

That's great news. Once my TiVo updates (forcing a connection now), then I can finally set up my Fox News SP for 746 instead of 46. Thanks!

phdeane

12-07-09, 02:12 AM

... (probably because Cox OC channel lineup page (http://ww2.cox.com/residential/orangecounty/tv/channel-lineup.cox) finally shows them).

They must have just done that update. In fact, the PDF link is a dead link, so they must be currently working on it.

edit: I also noticed the other day that they changed the names of their packages and other terminology (http://ww2.cox.com/residential/orangecounty/tv/pricing.cox).

moyekj

12-08-09, 11:01 AM

They must have just done that update. In fact, the PDF link is a dead link, so they must be currently working on it.

edit: I also noticed the other day that they changed the names of their packages and other terminology (http://ww2.cox.com/residential/orangecounty/tv/pricing.cox). I really have a problem with that pricing page as they leave out things such as pricing for "Limited Basic" (local channels only) as well as pricing for "additional digital outlets" and/or "digital gateway". Also with new scheme it seems to imply the "Bonus PAK" is free with any digital PAK, but I still can't receive HDNET and HDNET Movies even though I have the equivalent of the 3 TV PAK.
EDIT: OK HDNET & HDNET MOVIE are part of "HD Plus" which is yet another option not listed on the pricing page.

bigtuna

12-08-09, 05:28 PM

I have had the TA's since the first day they came out. I have had 2 reboots on one of them and none on the other. Anyone else having reboot problems or is this isolated to "lucky" me?

moyekj

12-08-09, 06:09 PM

I have had the TA's since the first day they came out. I have had 2 reboots on one of them and none on the other. Anyone else having reboot problems or is this isolated to "lucky" me? So far, so good for me. I'm having some occasional UI freezes/lockups in Now Playing List on my original 3+ year old S3 unit but I suspect that is hard drive going bad related and I'll be replacing the original internal drive with a new 1 TB drive tomorrow. The other S3 with TA has had no issues at all since attaching TA.

phdeane

12-09-09, 12:19 AM

I have had the TA's since the first day they came out. I have had 2 reboots on one of them and none on the other. Anyone else having reboot problems or is this isolated to "lucky" me?

Yes, I've had two. I mentioned the first one here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17599143#post17599143) and the second one here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17660621#post17660621). Do you have a DVR Expander (external) drive connected on the one that rebooted?

phdeane

12-09-09, 12:22 AM

I really have a problem with that pricing page as they leave out things such as pricing for "Limited Basic" (local channels only) as well as pricing for "additional digital outlets" and/or "digital gateway". Also with new scheme it seems to imply the "Bonus PAK" is free with any digital PAK, but I still can't receive HDNET and HDNET Movies even though I have the equivalent of the 3 TV PAK.
EDIT: OK HDNET & HDNET MOVIE are part of "HD Plus" which is yet another option not listed on the pricing page.

I don't like it either. It seems as if they are either oversimplifying things or, worse, trying to hide fees.

bigtuna

12-09-09, 12:17 PM

Yes, I've had two. I mentioned the first one here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17599143#post17599143) and the second one here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17660621#post17660621). Do you have a DVR Expander (external) drive connected on the one that rebooted?

I do have a WD external HD connected to the Tivo that has rebooted. Interesting.

Whitearrow

12-09-09, 02:09 PM

Ok. I finally did a little testing. When I take the splitter out (leaving in the powered amp that cox installed so many ages ago) with the tuning adapter, my signal strength jumps from the 50's to the mid-80's. Not perfect, but much better. So I'm willing to try the better amp/splitter and see if that can keep the signal strength up.

One possibly dumb question, moyekj, before I order the Electroline amp -- will it will work with the cable modem as well, if one of the outputs is going to the cable modem and the other to the TV? I guess I mean there is no magic splitter that has to be used to make a cable modem work?

phdeane

12-09-09, 02:35 PM

Whitearrow

12-09-09, 04:01 PM

This electroline thing (http://www.amazon.com/Electroline-2-Port-Cable-Signal-Amplifier/dp/B002S4TBGA/) is both an amp and a splitter. I just want to be sure it will work ok with the cable modem as well.

Hard Harry

12-09-09, 05:22 PM

Since you don't have TV service it's likely there's a high pass frequency filter on your drop. The channels you mentioned you can tune are in the 591-657 MHz range whereas 7-1 & 11-1 are at 267 MHz. Your cable modem downloads operate in the 561-567 MHz range. So most likely Cox is filtering out lower frequencies in your drop so you can't get the analog channels or digital (QAM) channels much below 560 MHz or so.

Sorry to respond to a old post, but its a pretty general question. I am looking for a list of the different filters Cox uses and what they look like.Preferable what color stripe they have on them for the times I have to spot them on the poll. I assume they are coded someone? A lot of times when I am setting up a cottage for a new tenant, I see filters on the line that may or may not need to be removed. Yes, I could just call cox and have them send a tech out to check, but I thought this may save everyone some time. Most of the cottages are just set up for basic and expanded.

phdeane

12-09-09, 06:14 PM

This electroline thing (http://go.avsforum.com/?aid=5336055023&bid=3136390&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FElectroline-2-Port-Cable-Signal-Amplifier%2Fdp%2FB002S4TBGA%2F) is both an amp and a splitter. I just want to be sure it will work ok with the cable modem as well.

Then yes. :)

Whitearrow

12-09-09, 07:14 PM

Awesome! Thank you! :: orders ::

Will report back!

uiucsb

12-09-09, 08:55 PM

So, I looked at my most recent Cox bill today. It is the first one after installation of cablecards and removal of their HD receiver. I had a couple surprises and wonder if others can answer my questions.

The Cox Cablecard installer told me he had to use two S-cards instead of one M-card because the office was out of M-cards. On my bill, cox is charging me for 2 cards, total = $3.98 (I guess I shouldn't be surprised). I asked for the installation fee of approx $54 to be waived, and it looks like it was. My new bill also shows Digital Cable Service (qty 2) = $15.45. My old bill (without the qty 2) was $14.95. Does cox charge $0.50 for the 2nd cable service, or did the price go up for everyone? Is the qty 2 related to the 2 cablecards?

I'm very glad there is this forum for us to discuss our local TV utility without having to deal with them all of the time!

teague

12-09-09, 09:01 PM

juanabove

12-09-09, 11:12 PM

teague

12-10-09, 12:12 AM

Hey Guys....this is more informational then anything and if I'm repeating a post I'm sorry. Went to Cox in Irvine to get my box replaced for the 4th time this month and after making sure I was getting a brand new one they gave me a DCX3400-M, so far so good. The front has no physical buttons but touch buttons, like the PS3 and the interface seems faster. Not too sure on the disk space but this sure beats the crap, overused, broken hard drive boxes they gave me earlier. Good luck guys and gals.....

Well this looks like the one with multi-room viewing and supposed larger hard drive. Are they charging you any extra? Any idea how big the hard drive is? I may have to visit Quail Hill tomorrow. :D

moyekj

12-10-09, 01:27 AM

Hey Guys....this is more informational then anything and if I'm repeating a post I'm sorry. Went to Cox in Irvine to get my box replaced for the 4th time this month and after making sure I was getting a brand new one they gave me a DCX3400-M, so far so good. The front has no physical buttons but touch buttons, like the PS3 and the interface seems faster. Not too sure on the disk space but this sure beats the crap, overused, broken hard drive boxes they gave me earlier. Good luck guys and gals..... Cox VA is also deploying those boxes. See posts starting at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17660961#post17660961

Even though there is a 500GB drive the current software apparently only recognizes up to 160GB. Presumably when the software update to enable MoCA & multi-room rolls out that will change... (presumably software is rolling out soon, at least in VA)

moyekj

12-10-09, 02:09 AM

So far, so good for me. I'm having some occasional UI freezes/lockups in Now Playing List on my original 3+ year old S3 unit but I suspect that is hard drive going bad related and I'll be replacing the original internal drive with a new 1 TB drive tomorrow. The other S3 with TA has had no issues at all since attaching TA. Installed 1 TB drive tonight in my 3+ year old TiVo. Piece of cake to do and preserved all settings and recordings.
Interface seems quite a bit zippier now. Guess I should have done it much sooner than now. Hopefully that means no more occasional UI freezes.

phdeane

12-10-09, 02:11 AM

magic_016

12-10-09, 04:54 PM

Well this looks like the one with multi-room viewing and supposed larger hard drive. Are they charging you any extra? Any idea how big the hard drive is? I may have to visit Quail Hill tomorrow. :D

I picked up the DCX3400-M a few weeks ago from Quail Hill and confirmed through it's diagnostics menu that it contains a 500 GB drive. However, it is limited by it's current software to 160 GB as pointed out in the Cox VA thread a few posts earlier. This will probably be changed when multi-room viewing is enabled in the future. They are also charging the same for this box as the old boxes (~$17/box).

I did notice a small glitch with the DCX3400-M. If you watch a show OnDemand, then view certain HD channels either live or previously recorded and attempt to rewind or fast-forward them, the screen will go black rather than display the show rapidly scanning as it usually does. I have two DCX3400-M boxes and the problem occurs in both boxes. One is connected to an LCD and another to a rear-projection HDTV, both with HDMI. I tried component cables as well and the issue was still there.

Oddly enough this seems to only be a problem on stations that broadcast in 720p (ESPN, ABC, FOX, ETC), while those in 1080i and SD continued to function normally. I have found that the only way to fix this problem is to reset the box by unplugging it for a few seconds, then plugging it back in. When I spoke to a retail specialist at Quail Hill who also had the new boxes, he said he noticed the issue, but that it went away for him "after a few days" without resetting the box. However, both my boxes continue to have the issue when I watch anything OnDemand.

Overall, it's not a big deal since I rarely watch anything OnDemand, but it's still very annoying when it happens. I imagine this can be fixed with a firmware update down the line.

TheRock

12-10-09, 09:33 PM

Sounds very cool. I would love to have more space. 500gb would be a nice upgrade. Although ideally Cox would get off there a$$ and enable external hard drive support. I will upgrade once I hear that firewire transfer is possible on the new box. In the mean time I have to clear the old DVR. It is completely full at the moment. Like usual.

teague

12-10-09, 09:41 PM

I'm glad to hear it's a 500GB drive. That could come in handy. I wonder if they will charge extra to use the 500GB drive (or MRV), or if it's really the same price as the old box?

moyekj

12-10-09, 11:09 PM

I'm glad to hear it's a 500GB drive. That could come in handy. I wonder if they will charge extra to use the 500GB drive (or MRV), or if it's really the same price as the old box? However, remember for MRV purposes you get 500GB for the whole house since you can only MRV from non-DVR set top boxes. Not sure what happens when you have 2 master DVRs on the network, can clients see both?

teague

12-10-09, 11:18 PM

However, remember for MRV purposes you get 500GB for the whole house since you can only MRV from non-DVR set top boxes. Not sure what happens when you have 2 master DVRs on the network, can clients see both?

That's a good question. I know one of the guys back east had two of the DCX boxes, and he said both lit up the MOCA light, but without the software update, we don't know what happens with MRV. For me, I have 3 Cox DVRs right now, so I'd likely get the new 500GB box for the main TV, and a non DVR box for the family room to share. The bedroom box I'd probably keep the existing DVR to cover the case when I need a 3rd or fourth tuner. Another master box with a 500 GB drive would be the best option. Plus the bedroom DRV is hooked to my Mac to download shows I can't watch before they get deleted, and I'd like to keep the firewire download option.

let's hope the software update comes soon so we figure out how this all works.

moyekj

12-11-09, 02:36 PM

Wow, 3 Cox DVRs, so you are paying 3x $18 plus additional outlet fees. That can get expensive in a hurry...

teague

12-11-09, 04:41 PM

Wow, 3 Cox DVRs, so you are paying 3x $18 plus additional outlet fees. That can get expensive in a hurry...

Yep! That's why I keep looking for new solutions. The 3rd one was just temporary while my son was recovering from having his tonsils out early this year and had to stay upstairs away from the rest of the family. But then the kids got used to it, and I've been unable to convince them to let me return it! A satellite box or two is really what we need. A 4 tuner Windows 7 box sounds good in theory, but in practice I'm not sure about the reliability. So I'm hoping the Cox MRV solution will let me reduce the costs and still keep the family happy.

phdeane

12-11-09, 04:54 PM

Yep! That's why I keep looking for new solutions. The 3rd one was just temporary while my son was recovering from having his tonsils out early this year and had to stay upstairs away from the rest of the family. But then the kids got used to it, and I've been unable to convince them to let me return it! A satellite box or two is really what we need. A 4 tuner Windows 7 box sounds good in theory, but in practice I'm not sure about the reliability. So I'm hoping the Cox MRV solution will let me reduce the costs and still keep the family happy.

And you MUST have a DVR in all locations? You'd save about $5 by just having a digital receiver, even more if you just used the raw cable feed. Of course, eventually those basic cable channels will requuire a box or CableCARD, too.

teague

12-11-09, 05:03 PM

And you MUST have a DVR in all locations? You'd save about $5 by just having a digital receiver, even more if you just used the raw cable feed. Of course, eventually those basic cable channels will requuire a box or CableCARD, too.

I'd say no. The third TV (mostly used for the kids when we are watching the main TV) just had the cable feed for the first 6-8 months we had it, and we did OK. But now that the kids got used to it, they like it. And many of the channels they watch are above 99. At this point, I"m willing to wait to see what the new Cox MRV option will do for me. That's likely what I'll switch to when it is available. Hopefully I can save even more than $5 a month.

But with the 160 GB disk, I have had 2 DVRs full many times. We can't watch TV every night, and it's easy to fill it up with HD shows and live sports on the weekend. So right now, one wouldn't work. Two would be the minimum.

phdeane

12-11-09, 05:20 PM

At this point, I"m willing to wait to see what the new Cox MRV option will do for me. That's likely what I'll switch to when it is available. *Hopefully I can save even more than $5 a month.*

Yes, let's hope. My guess is it'll be the same or slightly more, but let's definitely hope! ;)

MJCS

12-12-09, 12:19 AM

A windows 7 box with 4 tuners is going to be more reliable than anything from cox. If your OS drive dies, your shows will still be there. If your box crashes...well you know what happens

teague

12-12-09, 12:29 AM

A windows 7 box with 4 tuners is going to be more reliable than anything from cox. If your OS drive dies, your shows will still be there. If your box crashes...well you know what happens

So now I just have to hurry up and wait for the 4 tuner cards. :D

Hard Harry

12-12-09, 12:57 AM

You really think WIN 7 gives more then the linux distros out there for home media? I don't have a opinion one way or another, just curious what makes you sway that way.

MJCS

12-12-09, 01:20 AM

You really think WIN 7 gives more then the linux distros out there for home media? I don't have a opinion one way or another, just curious what makes you sway that way.

Linux does not have cablecard support. I also would choose windows for home use over linux. Linux is great to run my website and my game servers but not for practical home use.

Hard Harry

12-12-09, 01:35 AM

Linux does not have cablecard support. I also would choose windows for home use over linux. Linux is great to run my website and my game servers but not for practical home use.

Ahh. I was thinking tuner, not cable card. I am surprised no one has cracked the drivers. Proprietary? What OS runs the Tivo and Moxi boxes?

MJCS

12-13-09, 01:10 AM

Ahh. I was thinking tuner, not cable card. I am surprised no one has cracked the drivers. Proprietary? What OS runs the Tivo and Moxi boxes?

I know its linux. But my machine is not just dedicated to my TV. It is my business machine, my gaming rig, and of course my tuner

moyekj

12-14-09, 11:16 AM

Installed 1 TB drive tonight in my 3+ year old TiVo. Piece of cake to do and preserved all settings and recordings.
Interface seems quite a bit zippier now. Guess I should have done it much sooner than now. Hopefully that means no more occasional UI freezes.
Not a single UI freeze since the upgrade or trouble of any kind and UI is generally a little faster now, so at this point I'm fairly convinced the problem was the original drive was starting to go bad after 3+ years and the problem was not related to Tuning Adapter.

moyekj

12-14-09, 06:55 PM

Tomorrow (Dec 15) is supposedly the big day for a bunch of channels switching to SDV (basically all SD channels > 99) as well as a bunch of new HD channels being added by Cox. Probably happen around 2:00am or so. Looks like there already has been a couple of analog channels dropped and moved to digital only in an effort to clear up more space for new channels.
Fingers crossed all this activity will not negatively impact any further the existing services...

EDIT: Actually I think the big SDV switchover already happened end of November - don't really know anymore now that I have the Tuning Adapters attached.

fenwayfan

12-15-09, 01:42 AM

Not a single UI freeze since the upgrade or trouble of any kind and UI is generally a little faster now, so at this point I'm fairly convinced the problem was the original drive was starting to go bad after 3+ years and the problem was not related to Tuning Adapter.

Congrats on the drive upgrade :).

Which drive did you put in?
I upgraded my Tivo HD with the 1TB WD WD10EVCS a year ago and has been trouble free so far even after the recent TA addition. The WD10EVCS was the mot popular back then. I looks like the 1TB WD10EVDS is the way to go currently.

moyekj

12-15-09, 10:15 AM

Congrats on the drive upgrade :).

Which drive did you put in?
I upgraded my Tivo HD with the 1TB WD WD10EVCS a year ago and has been trouble free so far even after the recent TA addition. The WD10EVCS was the mot popular back then. I looks like the 1TB WD10EVDS is the way to go currently. Yup, went with the recommended WD10EVDS.

moyekj

12-15-09, 10:16 AM

Looks like new HD channels are in place, and shockingly TiVo listings for all of them are in place too. Aren't we all glad to have some of the Spanish channels in HD? ;)

Some of the new channels however for me seem to have problems. Fairly frequent breakups and audio dropouts. Diagnostics show problems with RS uncorrected errors. The rest of the new channels seem to be OK, ones listed below have issues:

CHANNEL STRENGTH SNR RS UNCORRECTED
743 95,,0 35 MANY, lots of pixelation & audio dropouts
776 95 35 SOME, some pixelation
779 95 35 MANY (don't subscribe to channel so can't comment on picture)

TheRock

12-15-09, 03:41 PM

Some decent additions. I've actually been surprised to see so many HD shows on ABCFamily HD. Normally channels cut corners, get all cheap, and air SD for syndicated shows. Some of these additions are head-scratchers though. They must have contract obligations or they were extremely cheap to add. In particular the Spanish channels. I think its cool they are offering them for all of the Spanish speaking customers but those channels air only a couple of shows in HD the last time I looked. When 95% of your lineup isn't offered in HD you don't deserve a dedicated HD channel.

Speaking of the channel additions... 779 TMC HD and 778 HBO 2 WEST HD are giving me a subscription page. I reset the boxes but it didn't help. I called Cox and they sent a hit to my DVR's. Didn't help either. I don't think the channels are active yet. Customer service told me to call back if the channels were still un-viewable in a couple hours.

fumanstan

12-15-09, 04:03 PM

Awesome, so happy to see MLB and NBA TV HD channels.

The channel listings that were posted earlier is updated with all the new additions.

http://ww2.cox.com/residential/orangecounty/tv/channel-lineup.cox

moyekj

12-15-09, 04:06 PM

Speaking of the channel additions... 779 TMC HD and 778 HBO 2 WEST HD are giving me a subscription page. I reset the boxes but it didn't help. I called Cox and they sent a hit to my DVR's. Didn't help either. I don't think the channels are active yet. Customer service told me to call back if the channels were still un-viewable in a couple hours. They are active, at least for me:
778 maps to 555MHz and is reporting CCI=0x2 in TiVo diagnostics
779 maps to 651MHz (CCI=0x0)

I don't subscribe to either one however so of course no picture or sound, but they are tuning correctly.

twarren

12-15-09, 08:32 PM

Whitearrow

12-15-09, 08:36 PM

Speaking of the channel additions... 779 TMC HD and 778 HBO 2 WEST HD are giving me a subscription page. I reset the boxes but it didn't help. I called Cox and they sent a hit to my DVR's. Didn't help either. I don't think the channels are active yet. Customer service told me to call back if the channels were still un-viewable in a couple hours.

They don't work for me either, and I do subscribe. I just get a black screen. This is on the TiVo with the TA.

All the other new channels work for me, w00t. Maybe I will finally watch something on Encore.

JETninja

12-15-09, 09:41 PM

They don't work for me either, and I do subscribe. I just get a black screen. This is on the TiVo with the TA.

All the other new channels work for me, w00t. Maybe I will finally watch something on Encore.

Same thing here, HBO 2 should work for me since I do subscribe to HBO....I get the Subscribe page....

teague

12-15-09, 09:59 PM

Same thing here, HBO 2 should work for me since I do subscribe to HBO....I get the Subscribe page....

Same here. 701 & 702 work, but 778 says call to subscribe. Let's hope these are up soon.

TheRock

12-15-09, 11:17 PM

Still not working for me. I guess I missed it earlier but More Max HD 726 is also giving me the subscription screen. If they are still not working in the morning I will probably call again. Looks like Cox is adding them at different times since I didn't see Disney HD or More Max HD in the morning with the other additions. This is a pretty huge update (quantity wise) in Cox terms. The largest single day HD channel addition I can think of actually.

phdeane

12-15-09, 11:24 PM

Looks like new HD channels are in place, and shockingly TiVo listings for all of them are in place too.

My guess is since Cox announced quite some time ago that the new channels were coming, Tribune was able to update the the guide data in time for launch. I'm certainly glad it is, though.

moyekj

12-16-09, 08:14 AM

moyekj

12-16-09, 08:29 AM

Very unfortunate that 780=Encore HD has CCI=0x2 even though it's not a premium channel.
The SD equivalent channel (309) has CCI=0x0.

nocturne1

12-16-09, 04:31 PM

Is anyone else with a TivoHD with a TA getting suggestions anymore? Mine's been sitting at zero for a few days, and I have 20+ things in the deleted items. I've heard that they may have a way to turn off suggestion recording for SDV channels, but I'm not getting ANYTHING.....

Whitearrow

12-16-09, 04:38 PM

I don't use Suggestions, sorry.

moyekj

12-16-09, 05:02 PM

Don't like/use TiVo Suggestions either, sorry.

TheRock

12-16-09, 07:11 PM

Very unfortunate that 780=Encore HD has CCI=0x2 even though it's not a premium channel.
The SD equivalent channel (309) has CCI=0x0.

Unfortunate but not surprising. Cox is very stingy when it comes to what they flag these days. Even when the providers (HDNET Movies) don't enable protection Cox often does. It was such a pain in the a$$ to get Cox to fix that problem. I really don't want to go through that headache again for Encore or TBS HD. Although Encore might be worth an email or two. I suggest all of you contact Cox about it.

Whitearrow

12-16-09, 09:33 PM

Got the Electroline amp today. Signal strength now between 90 & 100 and 35-37 SNR on all the channels I've tried, so, w00t :)

Another Possibly Stupid Question: I did not do the grounding wire thing it talked about in the amp instructions -- I just plugged it in. Is this something I need to do? As far as I can tell the old amp didn't have a grounding wire.

moyekj

12-16-09, 10:19 PM

Whitearrow

12-16-09, 10:42 PM

Thanks, and thanks for telling me what to buy :)

Whitearrow

12-17-09, 12:18 AM

teague

12-17-09, 12:48 AM

Hrm, the TiVo listings for ABCFamilyHD seems to be wrong. Right now (9 pm) Happy Feet is on, the listing is for Whose Line is it Anyway.

Is this just TiVo, or are Cox DVR users seeing the same thing?

Must be Tivo. My Cox DVR shows Happy Feet till 10:30pm, and that's what is playing at 9:48pm! :D

Frosty's Winter at 10:30pm according to the guide.

mkpl

12-17-09, 01:32 AM

Here's a list of clear QAM channels I see after a channel rescan with the set connected directly to the wall (no cable box). I only have basic+expanded cable, no digital packages.
2-1 KCBS HD
4-1 KNBC HD
4-2 KNBC weather
5-1 KTLA HD
7-1 KABC HD
7-2 LivWel
7-3 KABC weather
9-1 KCAL HD
11-1 KTTV HD
(13-1 KCOP HD is missing)
24-388 KABC SD
26-3 Cox3
36-1 KVEA HD (but was 480i)
50-1 KOCE-HD
50-2 KOCE-2
56-1 KDOC
74-310 Audio KAMP
74-364 KAZA (54)
77-470 KTBN (40-1)
90-11 Audio KYSR
90-31 Public Access
90-65 KFTR SD (46)
90-67 KPXN SD
90-70 KLCS (58-1)
90-73 KRCA (62-1)
90-83 KTLA SD
90-85 KCAL SD
90-86 KCBS SD
90-87 KTTV SD
91-811 This (5-2)
92-219 KJLA (57-1)
92-966 KVMD (31-1)
93-40 KMEX HD (34-1)
93-899 KFTR HD (46-1)
98-2 On Demand ad
98-5 MV City
98-12 Saddleback College
102-1 to -38 Audio radio
111-708 KPXN HD (30-1)
115-812 KCET-W (28-4)
115-813 KCET V-ME (28-3)
115-814 KCET-OC (28-2)
115-915 KCET HD (28-1)

moyekj

12-17-09, 02:04 AM

Hrm, the TiVo listings for ABCFamilyHD seems to be wrong. Right now (9 pm) Happy Feet is on, the listing is for Whose Line is it Anyway.

Is this just TiVo, or are Cox DVR users seeing the same thing? It looks like we're getting East Coast listings but Pacific feed. The channel should actually be called ABCFPHD to match it's sister SD channel ABCFP. So I think the problem is that currently:
719=ABCFHD (East coast feed)
but should be:
719=ABCFPHD (West coast feed)

I don't care enough about that channel anyway, but if you wish you can file a lineup issue here (http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html)

phdeane

12-18-09, 02:14 AM

Whitearrow

12-18-09, 06:10 PM

We got a lineup change today that included 778 and 779, but I'm still getting a black screen on those channels. Has anyone had any luck?

uiucsb

12-18-09, 06:46 PM

We got a lineup change today that included 778 and 779, but I'm still getting a black screen on those channels. Has anyone had any luck?

Within the last 2 hours (between ~2 and ~4), both 778 and 779 started working for me. However, Tivo doesn't have them in the guide.

TheRock

12-18-09, 10:21 PM

I had to call Cox last night and wait on hold for 15-20 minutes to get the new channels to become viewable. They sent a hit to my DVR's and I was able to view the channels immediately. They asked me what channels were having issues so hopefully they will send out a network wide hit to all costumers.

twarren

12-19-09, 10:45 PM

teague

12-20-09, 04:24 PM

I don't know if that happened (or helped); I'm still not getting them, even with a hit from support.

I'm not getting 778 or 779 either, just a call to subscribe message. I do get HBO on 700 & 701, so I should get at least 778.

jlstang95

12-21-09, 11:43 AM

I wasn't getting 778 either, 2 min call to cox and a signal to the box and I got the channel.

sherlocktk

12-21-09, 08:35 PM

duckie8782

12-22-09, 12:59 PM

Although this doesn't have anything to do with HD, there may be someone out there who needs help finding a resolution to the recent tuning issues with TiVo and OC Cox. I discovered the resolution by complete accident and by posting it here I hope it helps somebody else.

------------
I had been experiencing problems with changing channels and tuning on both my Series 2 TiVos (1 single tuner and 1 dual tuner). It seemed that the TV couldn't actually 'focus' on the requested channel and therefore continued to search for the next available signal. This caused the TV to display the requested channel for a moment then automatically advance either up or down to the next channel until it could find a signal that it could lock in. Although the TiVo 'thought' it was on the correct channel, it was not and caused the wrong channel to record when using a Season Pass.

Most recently the problem seemed to occur mostly on the 100 & 300 series channels, but also affected some channels below 100 on my signal tuner Series 2 TiVo. My dual tuner TiVo was able to tune in some of the channels the single tuner could not. But there was still a good number of channels that neither TiVo was able to display. So I switched season passes to which ever TiVo was able to tune in the correct channel. It was a drag and made things pretty inconvenient.

Numerous times I tried repeating the guided set up and everything else I could possibly think of to resolve the issue. Being a passionate TiVo owner/lover for over 10 years I'm pretty savvy about how it functions and can usually figure out most issues, but this one had me completely stumped.

I read some place that Cox had recently started converting many channels to SDV (Switched Digital Video) and I am pretty sure that is what is causing the problems. It seemed that a Tuning Adapter would have been necessary to resolve the issue. But apparently the adapters only work in conjunction with the Series 3 units that use Cable Cards. So that wasn't an option since Series 2 do not have cable cards.

Of course Cox blamed TiVo, and TiVo blamed Cox. Last year at about this time is when I first noticed the issue on a few channels and it wasn't too terribly big of a deal. But very recently the number of channels that couldn't be viewed increased substantially. After a year of dealing with this problem I felt as if I were at a dead end and either just had to live with the situation, or switch providers. Neither of which I wanted to do.

Resolution:
Interestingly enough, I removed the data cable (serial cable) and started using the IR blasters (defiantly not my preference) instead. Viola!!! All channels are once again completely functional and the issue is totally resolved on both TiVos. Whew!!

Hope this helps somebody else who is having a tough time with this issue!!!!

Btw, remember to go into settings and change the way TiVo changes channels so it knows to use the IR signal rather than the serial cable.

phdeane

12-22-09, 04:41 PM

I am also not getting suggestions.

I used to get approx 10-20 per day, now I MAY be get one. Series 2 up stairs on regular cable gets suggestions still.

I deleted lots of stuff just to be sure, no change. This happend Directly after the COX oc adapter came. Im not even sure where to report a bug like this....

Since I posted a few days ago, I've only had 1-2 suggestions, so something does seem strange. For me it's not that big a deal, though. I don't mind having suggestions on, as once in a great while I like what TiVo chooses, but it's so rare that I wouldn't have noticed had others not posted.

TheRock

12-22-09, 06:32 PM

OK. So I don't know if they're in a good mood about the holidays but I contacted Cox about the CCI settings on Encore HD as well as TBS HD on Dec 17 (if I remember correctly). They corrected the CCI settings for Encore HD on December 18. Its now recordable over firewire (although most movies don't look great and are around 7gb).

As for TBS HD I received the following info:

"We are looking into the issue with TBS HD displaying the incorrect CCI
settings on set tops and have escalated this issue to Motorola for
further investigation. Our settings for this service are correct on the
controller, but something is causing the information to be communicated
incorrectly to the set top.

I will follow up on this case when I hear back from Motorola."

I also informed Cox they are broadcasting the wrong feed of KVEA-HD. They seemed to have no idea what I was talking about but it looks like that situation might also be resolved soon and they should be airing the real HD feed.

I really got to give it up to Cox and thank them. They really gave me good customer service with these issues and didn't send even one generic email aside from the first confirmation letter.

moyekj

12-22-09, 07:19 PM

TheRock, good news, thanks for your efforts in getting those resolved. FYI TiVo never had issue with CCI bit on TBSHD so that must be Moto box specific problem.

Overall Cox has been pretty good lately for issues such as these and getting the Tuning Adapters deployed and working (flawlessly so far for me). My biggest single remaining issue is of course the picture quality issues of many of the national HD channels. I'm pretty happy with internet and phone service from them as well, though I could really use some higher upstream speed for internet. (I'm now getting ~ 1Mbps but 2Mbps would be ideal).

moyekj

12-23-09, 02:11 AM

It looks like we're getting East Coast listings but Pacific feed. The channel should actually be called ABCFPHD to match it's sister SD channel ABCFP. So I think the problem is that currently:
719=ABCFHD (East coast feed)
but should be:
719=ABCFPHD (West coast feed)

I don't care enough about that channel anyway, but if you wish you can file a lineup issue here (http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html) FYI, this just got fixed with today's listings.

Whitearrow

12-23-09, 12:38 PM

Nifty. I submitted the lineup issue the same day you posted the link, so that was pretty quick :)

phdeane

12-23-09, 01:03 PM

FYI, this just got fixed with today's listings.

Had to force a connection with TiVo, but sure enough, they are correct now. DisneyHD, 720, was fixed, too.

phdeane

12-24-09, 06:42 PM

Had to force a connection with TiVo, but sure enough, they are correct now. DisneyHD, 720, was fixed, too.

DisneyHD is messed up again. Oh well, they'll fix it eventually.

Merry Christmas everyone!

MJCS

12-25-09, 12:21 AM

I got my parents one of the new boxes yesterday. It is really small now. About half way between the old tuners cox had 10 years ago and the moto dvr's.

The non-dvr has USB and firewire too :)

teague

12-25-09, 01:08 AM

So if I get one of the new boxes with a 500GB drive and start using it now with the 160GB limit, do we think it will be transparent when the firmware is upgraded to use all 500 GB, or will it need to reformat the disk? I'm thinking about getting one over the holiday break since my boxes are almost empty, and it would be easy to swap out now before the new shows start up.

Whitearrow

12-25-09, 01:46 PM

Oh hey, 778 and 779 are working for me now!

MJCS

12-25-09, 05:40 PM

Hard Harry

12-26-09, 02:23 AM

It should be but moto boxes in my experience seldom do what they are supposed to do.

How is this upgrade supposed to work? A total repartition of the drive and re-installation of the DUI and GUI? Thats a tall order to go through glitch free. Over in the RI forums, someone from Cox said a new receiver would be required for Multi room DVR, but it looks like there giving out now what you guys are using already for it.

MJCS

12-26-09, 01:16 PM

How is this upgrade supposed to work? A total repartition of the drive and re-installation of the DUI and GUI? Thats a tall order to go through glitch free. Over in the RI forums, someone from Cox said a new receiver would be required for Multi room DVR, but it looks like there giving out now what you guys are using already for it.

Hence why I think they are going to really "F" this up

moyekj

12-26-09, 10:54 PM

Well so much for "end of year" target for multi-room DVR as this (http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/10/23/cox-finally-coming-out-with-multi-room-dvr/24101/) article mentioned was the target. But I guess it's been about 3 years since plans for multi-room DVR by Cox first surfaced, so another couple of months delay won't make much difference...

phdeane

12-26-09, 11:52 PM

MJCS

12-29-09, 04:38 AM

I talked to a CSR a few days ago and they did drop a hit at multi-room dvr. Just saying it should be out soon

twarren

12-30-09, 01:28 PM

moyekj

12-30-09, 01:59 PM

I use my own home-grown system for recording programs and tend to record a lot of movies from TCM (ch 68); recently I have occasionally seen a warning in the middle of a recording, something like: "if you want to continue watching this channel press the Select button" and then it apparently switched to channel 2. I guess this might be somehow related to SDV but its pretty annoying. Yes that is SDV related. I'm surprised to see that digital version of channel 68 (or any channel < 100) is SDV though. I thought all SD channels > 99 were now SDV but didn't know about others. I don't think Cox publishes an official list of what channels are SDV so it's hard to know. I believe there is a tell tale sign that was revealed earlier in this thread using Moto box diagnostics. From TiVo with Tuning Adapter there is no way for me to tell.

phdeane

12-30-09, 02:00 PM

moyekj

12-30-09, 02:19 PM

Upon further fooling around there is an indirect way to find out if a channel is SDV with TiVo and Moto Tuning adapter, but it's not very eloquent:
1. Tune to channel you want to check
2. Go to TiVo Central->Messages&Settings->Account&System Information->Tuning Adapter->DVR Diagnostics and note the Frequency associated with the channel you tuned to.
3. Left click out and then choose Tuning Adapter Diagnostics and then scroll down to DOWNSTREAM STATUS and click SELECT. If the INBAND FREQ listed on that screen matches the frequency you noted in step 2 then this is an SDV channel.

The key is that the INBAND FREQ in DOWNSTREAM STATUS page only updates when tuning to an SDV channel. You will note for example if you tune to known non-SDV channels such as 702 or 704 that the number won't update.

EDIT: Using above technique I did determine that channel 68 (frequency 729 MHz for me at the moment) is indeed SDV.

twarren

12-30-09, 04:21 PM

MJCS

12-31-09, 01:08 AM

thanks for the replies; I don't have Cox DVR or Tivo, just a regular HD cable box which is also connected to my recording system. I will lodge a complaint with Cox; maybe they'll "switch" 68 back to non-SDV mode. (I know, lol)

Highly unlikely

NuShrike

12-31-09, 02:03 PM

moyekj

12-31-09, 03:41 PM

Recently, I've "lost" two channels and since neither of the 2 Cox techs that have passed by can explain it nor fix it besides sending a "hit" to the TA, maybe somebody here can help me.

My Toon(71) is on 225000KHz and ToonHD(771) is on 699000KHz. However, ToonHD is simulcasting the SD content because it's 480i and matches the 71 TiVo channel guide, not the 771's guide data. ToonHD was previously HD when I first got the CC and TA installed, and I've also have recorded content in 1080i.

Are those frequencies correct for those of you in the OC COX area/Irvine?

Meanwhile, I've also had lost channel KNBC(4) on 573000KHz, but it seems fiddling with the cables and sending a couple pairs have brought it back.

So, I really would like to get my ToonHD back on this m-card, while Cox strangely prefers to stock s-cards vs m-cards.
71=225MHz, not SDV
771=SDV (therefore frequency assignment can change)

I can confirm that currently 771 is 480i. The guide issue is a TiVo listings problem. They have 771=TOONHD but it should be 771=TOONPHD. You can file a lineup issue with TiVo here (http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html) to have that fixed.

KNBC problem is not CableCard related as it's not encrypted and hence CableCard is out of the picture. You should use TiVo DVR Diagnostics page to see if you have signal related issues - if you are getting low signal strength or SNR and have RS Corrected/Uncorrected errors showing up then it's a signal problem.

Note that with TA attached TiVo users get exact same channel mapping as customers with Cox digital set top boxes.
(That is not the case without TA).

twarren

01-02-10, 11:19 AM

Highly unlikely

I know; one would think that entering a vcr event on the cable box (which I always do) would lock in the channel for the duration of the program, but I guess the m-card in the box isn't smart enough to do this (maybe it needs to be the newer type of card?)

MJCS

01-04-10, 12:57 AM

NuShrike

01-04-10, 02:01 AM

I can confirm that currently 771 is 480i. The guide issue is a TiVo listings problem. They have 771=TOONHD but it should be 771=TOONPHD. You can file a lineup issue with TiVo [url] to have that fixed.

KNBC problem is not CableCard related as it's not encrypted and hence CableCard is out of the picture.Thanks for the SD confirmation on TOONHD. This means there's nothing wrong with my m-card, and there's no way Cox is going to pry it out of me for two s-cards. I've already contacted Cox tech by email to escalate this beyond the cable monkeys that they send to homes, but they're taking their time to get to it since it's NY.

I DID have no signal-lock on KNBC for a couple weeks. Yes I did browse the DVR diagnostics quite a bit. The signal-lock is back now.

As for 771 TOONHD, it was actually the Eastern HD feed because it was 3 hours ahead of 71, when it was working. Seems Cox? tried to correct it to the Pacific feed during the great SDV transition around Dec 15th, but they messed it up so it's 480i now.

Yes, the guide is wrong now for 771, but imo it's Cox's fault for having it wrong before.

moyekj

01-04-10, 09:41 AM

It will be interesting to get a release date from Centon media on their new cablecard tuners at CES. I can finally build a 6 tuner system for the entire house and get rid of all my boxes and replace them with some xboxes or something with netflix on it. Note that the initial Ceton release will be a 4-tuner card. For 6-tuner version you would need to buy an OEM computer system with 6-tuner card since a standalone 6-tuner card won't be available and non-OEM Windows 7 Media Center only supports up to 4 tuners of each type (ATSC, NTSC, QAM), plus I think 4-tuner version will be made available first.
I've been following this Green Button (http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/t/78488.aspx) thread pretty closely which has some good up to date information.
I am happy to see this good alternative solution available, but the up front cost of this solution for the card ($400-600) plus several extenders around the house (which for now really is only xbox 360 units for around at least $100 each) will be out of range for all but the extreme enthusiasts.
I'll be keeping an eye on it but for now I'm happy with my TiVo 4-tuner solution.

MJCS

01-04-10, 10:48 AM

Note that the initial Ceton release will be a 4-tuner card. For 6-tuner version you would need to buy an OEM computer system with 6-tuner card since a standalone 6-tuner card won't be available and non-OEM Windows 7 Media Center only supports up to 4 tuners of each type (ATSC, NTSC, QAM), plus I think 4-tuner version will be made available first.
I've been following this Green Button (http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/t/78488.aspx) thread pretty closely which has some good up to date information.
I am happy to see this good alternative solution available, but the up front cost of this solution for the card ($400-600) plus several extenders around the house (which for now really is only xbox 360 units for around at least $100 each) will be out of range for all but the extreme enthusiasts.
I'll be keeping an eye on it but for now I'm happy with my TiVo 4-tuner solution.

Also looks like the company that makes HDHomeRun might be making a tuner system as well. We shall find out in a few days :)

Whitearrow

01-04-10, 03:00 PM

Just an FYI -- I picked up the tuning adapter for my second TiVo over the holidays. I'm pleased that these seem to be generally working well. I did, however, experience the same thing with signal strength -- what was 95ish before is now running in the 75-85 range, so the introduction of the TA is definitely reducing the signal strength for me.

I plan to leave it for now, as I don't seem to be getting errors and just don't use this TiVo as much as my main one. If it becomes a problem I guess I can get another Electroline. But I wanted to document this in case others experience the same thing.

Schlotkins

01-04-10, 04:59 PM

moyekj

01-04-10, 05:17 PM

Is there any hope for Cox PQ? I was watching ION HD the other day and frankly it was unbearable. I really don't want to go to directtv as I'm looking forward to full HTPC support but this is getting ridiculous. I think many/most of the National HD channels from Cox are over-compressed these days. The relatively new FSN HD addition is another example of pretty poor "HD" quality IMO (and not surprisingly they have higher bit rates then most other HD channels). There are some exceptions as ESPNHD & ESPN2HD for example still look good IMO. Unfortunately I think it's the Cox West backbone (which I think ultimately are distributed from Comcast at 3 per QAM if I remember a previous article) where the problem lies, so they are overly compressed even before reaching local headends, in which case there is nothing the local headends can do to improve the quality. Unfortunately I think most customers don't notice or care or prefer quantity over quality so if anything I expect quality to get worse as D* keeps pushing the envelope for quantity of HD channels forcing cable companies to add more at the expense of quality. The only way to send a message to Cox is vote with your pocket and switch to D* citing picture quality as reason for switching.
You would think Cox would be embarrassed to show some of these "HD" channels on the TVs at their customer care centers but apparently not...

phdeane

01-05-10, 12:58 AM

I think many/most of the National HD channels from Cox are over-compressed these days. The relatively new FSN HD addition is another example of pretty poor "HD" quality IMO (and not surprisingly they have higher bit rates then most other HD channels). There are some exceptions as ESPNHD & ESPN2HD for example still look good IMO. Unfortunately I think it's the Cox West backbone (which I think ultimately are distributed from Comcast at 3 per QAM if I remember a previous article) where the problem lies, so they are overly compressed even before reaching local headends, in which case there is nothing the local headends can do to improve the quality. Unfortunately I think most customers don't notice or care or prefer quantity over quality so if anything I expect quality to get worse as D* keeps pushing the envelope for quantity of HD channels forcing cable companies to add more at the expense of quality. The only way to send a message to Cox is vote with your pocket and switch to D* citing picture quality as reason for switching.
You would think Cox would be embarrassed to show some of these "HD" channels on the TVs at their customer care centers but apparently not...

Perhaps the PQ will degrade so far that event the average Cox customer will be disappointed and complain. I do believe, as you stated, that the average Cox customer could really care less about PQ, and we are going to be stuck with ever decreasing PQ for quite some time.

Hard Harry

01-05-10, 05:49 AM

Perhaps the PQ will degrade so far that event the average Cox customer will be disappointed and complain. I do believe, as you stated, that the average Cox customer could really care less about PQ, and we are going to be stuck with ever decreasing PQ for quite some time.

I had D for a while but I couldn't stand the dependability, or lack there of. That was just my experience, mind you, but it was enough to drive me away. I also see what your saying about the quality though with Cox, though I saw a huge different when I moved over to the East Coast. Then again that was a brand new house on a brand new area of town so...its really hard to make a generalized fair comparison.

As a separate pipe dream, do you think changing to a different format other then MPEG-2 would make a different in PQ? I know not over the backbones, but just seems like its been MPEG for a long time and there seems to be so many better formats out there. I may regret asking without proper research, but thought I would throw the question out there.

MJCS

01-05-10, 10:45 AM

bryanb

01-05-10, 12:38 PM

moyekj

01-05-10, 08:54 PM

Note that the initial Ceton release will be a 4-tuner card. For 6-tuner version you would need to buy an OEM computer system with 6-tuner card since a standalone 6-tuner card won't be available and non-OEM Windows 7 Media Center only supports up to 4 tuners of each type (ATSC, NTSC, QAM), plus I think 4-tuner version will be made available first.
I've been following this Green Button (http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/t/78488.aspx) thread pretty closely which has some good up to date information.
I am happy to see this good alternative solution available, but the up front cost of this solution for the card ($400-600) plus several extenders around the house (which for now really is only xbox 360 units for around at least $100 each) will be out of range for all but the extreme enthusiasts.
I'll be keeping an eye on it but for now I'm happy with my TiVo 4-tuner solution.
Happy to discover it looks to be at the low end of MSRP range: $400 for the 4-tuner Ceton card:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2010-01/ceton-to-unveil-cablecard-quad-tuner-399/

MJCS

01-05-10, 09:41 PM

Happy to discover it looks to be at the low end of MSRP range: $400 for the 4-tuner Ceton card:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2010-01/ceton-to-unveil-cablecard-quad-tuner-399/

$400 isnt bad but they will be able to lower the price once people start buying them (more product sold = more product made = better/cheaper manufacturing). Considering that the ATI tuners are about $250-280 on ebay, it is a no-brainer to buy this. Once this comes out I will be selling my ATI's for $400 off of ebay to just cover the cost of the new tuner

moyekj

01-05-10, 09:56 PM

$400 isnt bad but they will be able to lower the price once people start buying them (more product sold = more product made = better/cheaper manufacturing). Considering that the ATI tuners are about $250-280 on ebay, it is a no-brainer to buy this. Once this comes out I will be selling my ATI's for $400 off of ebay to just cover the cost of the new tuner I think $100/tuner is a very fair price, especially for initial release. The real problem remaining is a lack of an affordable extender to use at each TV. I still don't see most people putting noisy & bulky PCs next to the TV and with 4 tuners most are going to want access on more than 1 TV. In my case I could get by with 2 extenders, but that would be around $300 more for 2 xbox 360 units with HDMI. Also I don't currently have a desktop PC at home (I use a high end laptop) so that is more expense. Adding it all up it's easily > $1000 initial investment to get everything up and running.

Also is the question of Media Center software itself. It's not bad, but I still don't see a way to do some things I do very easily now with TiVo. For example I have a "wishlist" which automatically records all new HD Lakers games on any HD channel the games are on and avoids recording repeated airings. I don't see that kind of advanced wishlist capability available with MCE.

NuShrike

01-06-10, 12:53 AM

As for 771 TOONHD, it was actually the Eastern HD feed because it was 3 hours ahead of 71, when it was working. Seems Cox? tried to correct it to the Pacific feed during the great SDV transition around Dec 15th, but they messed it up so it's 480i now.So here's the semi-"official" line I got back from Cox finally:

Cartoon Network made the "decision to start delivering content in standard definition and not high definition" at least for either Cox, or the Pacific market, and nothing related to my m-card (which they tried sending 2 clueless techs to take away and replace with s-cards).

Also, the guide data is wrong due to their "guide vendor". Right, sure ...

Not sure why this wasn't announced, and why they still list TOONHD as HD, and why bother putting it on SDV? ...

Well, FCC here I come anyways.

Hard Harry

01-06-10, 06:03 AM

Switching to mpeg4 would be bad. Most content today is recorded today in mpeg2, edited in mpeg2, and broadcast in mpeg2. All they would be doing is compressing the video even more to save bandwith to give us the same ****** bit rate. TV broadcast should be around 18mbps but lately on discovery and such it has been 10-12mbps. A DVD is 9mbps! You can polish a turd but it will always and still is a turd.

Yes, thus why I said it was a pipe dream. I was asking if the entire industry changed. Then again, I would probably have better luck asking to get rid of TV commercials and trying to get Microsoft to become OpenSource. :D Hypothetically though, what would be the best format to record in for transmission over the network?

MJCS

01-07-10, 12:47 AM

Yes, thus why I said it was a pipe dream. I was asking if the entire industry changed. Then again, I would probably have better luck asking to get rid of TV commercials and trying to get Microsoft to become OpenSource. :D Hypothetically though, what would be the best format to record in for transmission over the network?

For broadcast 18mbps vbr mpeg2 long GOP with PCM or dolby audio

Hard Harry

01-07-10, 05:05 AM

For broadcast 18mbps vbr mpeg2 long GOP with PCM or dolby audio

Decided to do some late night reading on the subject and thought I would share incase anyone else was interested.

Digital Broadcast Technologies (http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=106971)

The whole journal confirms what I suspected; were going to be using MPEG-2 for a very long time. Cheers.

Schlotkins

01-07-10, 11:00 AM

oscardeuce

01-07-10, 12:21 PM

Decided to do some late night reading on the subject and thought I would share incase anyone else was interested.

Digital Broadcast Technologies (http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.asp?p=106971)

The whole journal confirms what I suspected; were going to be using MPEG-2 for a very long time. Cheers.

Keep in mind that that book was published ten years ago. Things have changed a bit in the mean time.

moyekj

01-07-10, 12:49 PM

Does anyone know if it's possible to get SDV adapters from Cox yet? I'm thinking about a Ceton card, but would need at least one (maybe 2) for their 4 tuner card.

http://www.cetoncorp.com/buy.php

Thanks,
Chris Yes, if you check a few pages back in this thread there are several TiVo owners that follow this thread with free Motorola Tuning Adapters (I have 2 of them). So far they have been very surprisingly trouble free as well. The good thing also is the Motorola TA unlike the Cisco TA supports at least 6 streams at a time so only 1 Moto TA should suffice for the 4-tuner Ceton.

Ceton web site is now officially reporting availability of the 4-tuner card by March 31 with initial price of $399.
HDHomeRun also announced a 2-tuner networked CableCard tuner they are working on with initial price of $249, but no release date given. Less enticing of course being 2 tuner and more expensive price per tuner than Ceton.

Schlotkins

01-07-10, 03:34 PM

Yes, if you check a few pages back in this thread there are several TiVo owners that follow this thread with free Motorola Tuning Adapters (I have 2 of them). So far they have been very surprisingly trouble free as well. The good thing also is the Motorola TA unlike the Cisco TA supports at least 6 streams at a time so only 1 Moto TA should suffice for the 4-tuner Ceton.

Ceton web site is now officially reporting availability of the 4-tuner card by March 31 with initial price of $399.
HDHomeRun also announced a 2-tuner networked CableCard tuner they are working on with initial price of $249, but no release date given. Less enticing of course being 2 tuner and more expensive price per tuner than Ceton.

Thanks for the response and my apologies for not using the search function. I'll probably get one when it comes out. I keep toying with the idea of DirectTV but I'll probably stick with Cox.

Hard Harry

01-08-10, 04:03 AM

Keep in mind that that book was published ten years ago. Things have changed a bit in the mean time.

Oh, thanks for the heads up. Anything more up to date that you suggest? I was reading one book on telecom over the winter break but that focused more on the wireless side.

rick1946

01-08-10, 01:09 PM

moyekj

01-08-10, 02:26 PM

For some time now when I channel surf I have been getting a screen that says
"Temporality off Air. Check back Later" for some channels.

It does not happen to all channels I select and happens to different channels at different times.
It happens on both HD and SD channels.

When it happens it may last for a few minutes or several hours.

Has anyone else had this problem and/or know what causes it? No, have not seen that all, but I use TiVo DVRs to record anything I want to see (I hardly ever watch live TV) and don't do channel surfing, however all channels that I record from have been recording normally.
Which channels have you had problems with specifically?
Most SD channels > 99 are now broadcast on demand using Switched Digital Video, so they are designed to time out after a period of no user interaction with set top box (ask you if you are still watching and drop the channel if no response). It's also possible that due to many requests in your neighborhood for different SDV channels that there is not enough room to accommodate all of them, however the system is supposed to be designed to minimize such possibilities. It may be Cox is still tweaking the system but if that were the case there would be widespread complaints such as yours which I have not heard.
The other perhaps more likely possibility is that your box(es) are not able to properly communicate back to the headend for some reason and therefore sometimes cannot negotiate with SDV system to be able to tune an SDV channel. If that's the case then for example VOD capability will also be a problem. To check that I would suggest next time you encounter a problem try going into VOD and asking for one of the free streams - if that fails then that would be a red flag there is a problem with your boxes communicating back to headend.

phdeane

01-08-10, 06:23 PM

Hard Harry

01-08-10, 11:19 PM

No, not happening on my TiVo HD or Cox DVR in Irvine (92602), so as moyekj pointed out, it may be specific to your DVR or neighborhood.

Well I will spare the details unless you ask, but It has been my experience that that comes up when either A, there is some sort of signal depravity to the receiver, or B, the receiver needs to be reset. If B happens more then 4-5 times a year, its probably A. Its not a message from Cox, but a message from the receiver. Its saying "Need more input". Won't happen on a cable card, because there no GUI for a cable card. I welcome other's input though.

phdeane

01-09-10, 01:26 AM

Well I will spare the details unless you ask, but It has been my experience that that comes up when either A, there is some sort of signal depravity to the receiver, or B, the receiver needs to be reset. If B happens more then 4-5 times a year, its probably A. Its not a message from Cox, but a message from the receiver. Its saying "Need more input". Won't happen on a cable card, because there no GUI for a cable card. I welcome other's input though.

It certainly could be a low-signal issue, but that could be easily confirmed by checking out the diagnostics. I would also suggest that rick1946 try rebooting the DVR to see if that helps.

Hard Harry

01-09-10, 06:17 AM

It certainly could be a low-signal issue, but that could be easily confirmed by checking out the diagnostics. I would also suggest that rick1946 try rebooting the DVR to see if that helps.

To much knowledge you can't not tell signal strength from the diagnostic. Please correct me if I am wrong, I just could not find it. Yon can check other elements of the signal quality, just not strength.

rick1946

01-09-10, 01:28 PM

To much knowledge you can't not tell signal strength from the diagnostic. Please correct me if I am wrong, I just could not find it. Yon can check other elements of the signal quality, just not strength.

I was just going to ask if there is a way to check signal strength. It is a Moto3416 box. I have 3 other 3416s, but I don't watch them much so, I'm not sure if they have the problem. I will reset the box and see if that helps (it was still happening last night). I will also see if I can get a problem channel on another box next time it happens.

The signal strength issue is a good candidate given Hard Harry's comment about the Message being from the 3416.

I have 8 cable outlets in the house 4 to 3416's and 4 straight to TVs. I installed an EDA-FT08100 amp two years ago to replace several single outlet amps. It is located where Cox comes in from the street and gives each of the 8 outputs a 3 dB boost.

Thanks to all who have replied about this problem. And if anyone knows of a way to check signal strength it would be much appreciated.

phdeane

01-09-10, 04:47 PM

Hard Harry

01-10-10, 05:27 AM

.I was just going to ask if there is a way to check signal strength. It is a Moto3416 box. I have 3 other 3416s, but I don't watch them much so, I'm not sure if they have the problem. I will reset the box and see if that helps (it was still happening last night). I will also see if I can get a problem channel on another box next time it happens.

The signal strength issue is a good candidate given Hard Harry's comment about the Message being from the 3416.

I have 8 cable outlets in the house 4 to 3416's and 4 straight to TVs. I installed an EDA-FT08100 amp two years ago to replace several single outlet amps. It is located where Cox comes in from the street and gives each of the 8 outputs a 3 dB boost.

Thanks to all who have replied about this problem. And if anyone knows of a way to check signal strength it would be much appreciated.

Hmm, well it's been a while since I have installed cable hardware, but I will give it a go.

1. First, tasty piece of hardware you have there in that amp. How much did that set you back?
1A. I question the zero return gain feature, have you found this true in practice?
1B. Also, I wonder what it does to the US SNR?
1C. Even if the signal levles are frosty, that thing must draw alot of juice. If you have it in anything but a dedicated 120 on a very stable power grid, I would be very surprised not to see spikes and dips in the signal.

2. How is your house layed out? Are you looking for a wire plan or just general tips? If the former I need more info.
2A. How many floors?
2B. How long between amp and each outlet.
2C. Any other splitters in the mix or direct?

3. General tips.
3A. You can use the modem as a mini meter to check signal levels. Its a pain but if you hook a ethernet from the modem to a laptop, then go around to each outlet and hook up coax, plug in power and Start > Run > http://192.168.100.1
3B.Have you tried to get your provider to give you another drop? It may cost you, but with that many outlets running over what I assume is a large house, you may have alot of bread and be quite outside the butter zone.
3C.Try to seperate your CATV and Recievers from each other. You can tap off almost 80% from the main and run 20% to 2nd amp, and increase to your hearts content.
3D. Its not just about good signal, its also steady signal. If your signal is increasing and decreasing more then 2 dhb over a 4 hour period, its going to cause trouble.

Answer what you wish. I know its alot but complicated questions come with other complicated questions. :D

rick1946

01-10-10, 05:04 PM

Thanks to Hard Harry for the idea of using my cable modem to test signal strength. I have a Motorola SBG900 Cable Modem and it gives Upstream and Downstream power levels and signal to noise ratio. I hooked it up to 4 of my outlets including the one giving me the "Temporality Off Air" problem. The readings were very consistant for the power levels averaging -1.7 dBmV for down and and 40.4 dBmV for up. I found a good article at speedguide.net that said these readings were pretty good.

However the S/N averaged 38 dB for the 3 outlets that were not a problem but only 18 dB on the outlet with the problem. Speedguide.net said that S/N should be above 30.

Most of the cable run for the problem outlet is buried in the walls and was put in when the house was built. I did notice that this line is joined to 3 foot cable extensions at both ends with joiners that are not gold plated, are old and a little coroded. Tomorrow I will go to Radio shack and replace the 2 joiners with gold plated ones and retest the S/N ratio.

Thanks again for all the help. I have been a "lurker" on this board for many years and enjoy all the posts.

MJCS

01-11-10, 02:41 AM

Hard Harry

01-11-10, 03:36 AM

Drive over to cox and get some free cables. Try to avoid radio shack :P

+1

And gold plated is generally a waste of money if your talking coax and coax connectors. Usually its done as a gimmick to increase profit margins. The few exceptions to this have more to do with it's anti-corrison then it's electro-conductivity. For that, silver oxide is better then gold, which you will find on higher end component or composite type connectors. And a coupler is usually lossless anyway, or close to it, so gold there is pointless. As a last point, please for the love of god people, stop letting the salesman sell you the 100$+ HDMI cable. If you had the set up where something like that mattered, chances are you wouldn't be buying from BestBuy.