Originally posted by Sydor25
Does anyone else think that HBO-HD has gotten worse recently? Almost every movie seems to be way too compressed. Most of the time the DVD looks much better, especially action movies. Showtime-HD and INHD don't have as many compression artifacts as HBO-HD.

Do you guys agree? Don't subscribe to HBO, so don't know. However, for me NBC HD is BY FAR the worse for compression artifacts with any fast motion. It was very evident during Olympics. Other network HD channels and ESPN, DISC, INHD1/2 are all much better. What's weird is the mpeg2 specs on NBC HD recordings are identical to those on other channels by the time we see it on the 6412, so I think the Cox OC bit-rate shaping on NBC HD must be set more aggressively than for the other HD channels.

It would be really great if someone could dig up information on exactly what Cox OC is multiplexing with what to fill up each QAM256 channel. I suspect NBC HD stream is crammed in with a bunch of other SD digital channel streams, 1 or more of which require higher bit-rates than average thereby taking away bandwidth from NBC HD (via rate shaping). HBO HD probably suffers from same problem.

Originally posted by Sydor25
Does anyone else think that HBO-HD has gotten worse recently?

Funny that you mention this. I recorded Star Trek Nemesis about a month ago when I first got the box and before the dual tuner upgrade. It's a great picture and I think it looks better than what I'm seeing now, but it's hard to tell for sure. It seems that maybe some bandwidth might have been stolen, or the dual tuner overhead might be to blame or maybe the fix for the artifacts has something to do with it. Cox is working on a couple of different solutions to fix a number of different problems, so I would give them some time. Supposedly, another firmware upgrade is due out in about a month, so we'll see if HBO looks better then.

I think I was the first to mention that I didn't feel that the box had enough "horsepower" to run everything, but VideoGuy on the 6412 thread assures that it does. I sure hope he's right. Like moyekj, I wonder if there is a way to see exactly what makes up the download on HBO (and other channels) so we could compare data such as speed, compression, resolution, etc. I suppose I could ask VideoGuy on the 6412 thread - I don't think he monitors this thread. He seems to be a great resource.

Here's a link to the other thread. It looks like things specific to the 6412 should be posted on that thread, since the 6412 is a national product, while this thread should be specifically about OC Cox cable.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=414680&perpage=20&highlight=6412

I've been missing some recordings lately due to the subscription bug. Tonight I set the PVR to record lost at 8pm on 707. I left the box on, tuned to 707, just in case, so I might have some live data to see. I got home at 8:30pm, and no recording. The TV showed the subsription needed message. Flipping channels went back to the show. So I pressed the record button to get manual recording of the rest of the show. Instantly the subcription message comes on again, and no recording. So it looks like the box can trigger the problem when the recording starts. Weird.

Chris

Originally posted by cpteague
I've been missing some recordings lately due to the subscription bug. Tonight I set the PVR to record lost at 8pm on 707. I left the box on, tuned to 707, just in case, so I might have some live data to see. I got home at 8:30pm, and no recording. The TV showed the subsription needed message. Flipping channels went back to the show. So I pressed the record button to get manual recording of the rest of the show. Instantly the subcription message comes on again, and no recording. So it looks like the box can trigger the problem when the recording starts. Weird.

Chris I think the problem is that it will use the other tuner for the recording so as not to interrupt what you are currently tuned to. I think it's possible to tune both tuners to same channel which may avoid the subscription problem - i.e. 707,swap,707. Even then, it's likely the recording will force the tuner to re-tune to 707 which may trigger the problem anyway. I know replayTV will re-tune to a channel even if it's already on the right channel when triggering a recording, so it's likely the 6412 does the same thing. If that's the case there was probably no way for you to avoid the problem. My series recording of Lost picked up tonight's show without problems - and there was no tiling problems - AMAZING.

Was being adventurous yesterday.
I scheduled 2 simultaneous HD recordings, Hawaii on 704 and Lost on 707.
I made sure to tune both tuners to 2 analog channels (I think 2 and 4) and turned the box off before 8PM (start of the the 2 HD recordings).
As expected, the red light came up at 8PM indicating it's recording the 2 shows.
In the meantime, I was watching Smallville from my OTA receiver and never dared to turn the 6412 box back on.
Past 9PM, turned the 6412 back on to check my 2 HD recordings and

Guess what....NO VIDEO TILING or audio drop issue except 1 second on both recording about half way of the shows.

Has anybody else tried what I've done?

I'll try again tonite to see if it was just luck or not and will report it back here.

Eric

Eric,

I guarantee you it hasn't been completely fixed, but I have never had two simultaneous HD recordings fail (when both start at the same time) if I tune both tuners to SD channels, then leave the box ALONE. I do tons of late night recording of programming on INHD1/2 and Discovery HD Theater. I've never had any problems in terms of tiling and what not as long as I set both tuners to SD channels and "don't touch!". Furthermore it's been quite awhile since I've gotten the Subscription Required error, and maybe or maybe not as a result, haven't gotten 0-length recordings in quite some time as well.

-T

From the looks of it, I must have a bad hard drive because I can't even record one HD channel while the tuner is not being used. I get problems just recording SD programs.

Time to schedule a tech to come out and switch my 6412 with a new one. Strange that I didn' have any troubles before the software upgrade.

Tonight's HBO HD's Bad Boys II was so highly compressed that it constantly broke up into tiles. I called Cox and reported it. If this is part of the head-end fix by increasing compression to reduce bandwidth, then it has resulted in HD looking worse than the SD HBO channel!

The HBO trailer that starts before the movie was so bad that it too was tiling all over the place. This is the first time that I've seen it so bad.

Personally, I think that if this is the head-end fix, then the fix is worse than the problem as 100% of people now get a bad picture.

Also - I get the same, bad picture from my 6200 so it's not a 6412 issue.

I have noticed PQ decrease on HD too since the headend fix was implemented. HBO HD is horrible.

I also get HD via OTA, and I did not used to see any noticeable difference between OTA and Cox, I do now. Dallas/NY game on Fox this morning has a CONSIDERABLE difference in PQ between OTA and Cox.

Wow, I see what you guys are talking about today - Football on CBS HD here in Orange County, CA is absolutely AWFUL today. Any motion makes thousands of little squares all over the video. Analog CBS viewed via TV tuner is much more watchable. We all need to call in and complain, or at least send email of this problem. If this headend change was to address the tiling issue it doesn't fix it anyway and makes HD totally unwatchable for any sports or programs with motion. It's absurd to pay the monthly charges for HD with this kind of signal quality.

Just got the Cox bill for October. They are still charging $20 for all the HD charges:
HD Converter: $9.95
HD Expanded Tier: $4.95
DVR Service: $4.95
(I don't pay the $4.95 for HD service since I have 1 year free deal there when I bought my HDTV).
$20 for the garbage that is their HD programming + DVR right now is just not worth it. This despite a promise last time I called that all the HD-related charges would be discounted until the DVR was working properly. Sigh... I'll be on the phone tomorrow.

The HD broadcast of the Dodger game last night on Fox (711) sure didn't look good (the PQ - not the way they played). It wasn't that it was tiling - it just didn't look crisp - not like some of their NFL games. It hard for me to know where the blame lies: Cox or the broadcast. IMO, the only way to tell is a comparison between OTA or SAT and our cable. I would encourage more posts from those that have multi-sources of HD material and to do an A/B test. It seems that it's on the Cox side (try not to include NBC in the analysis since we know the problem lies in their broadcasts!)

I see the Changes that have Resulted in Artifacting & Pixelization (CRAP) as totally unacceptable. I, like most who post on this and the 6412 thread are willing to give Cox the benefit of some time to work things out, but like Niesman, if things don't improve soon, SAT is in the holiday plans. I spent quite a bit of money on the big screen in August (got it for the Olympics which was my first disappointment with the programming & PQ), after waiting a year until enough HD programming was available to justify the cost. I find it disappointing, at the least, to come to the realization that we are Beta testers for this new technology.

Don

Don,

While I do agree with you on what seems to be a degredation in picture quality the last couple of days/weeks, just wanted to give you a heads up that FOX did not produce any of the Dodger MLB games in HD. They only did them in their 16:9 widescreen digital. They are only doing the ALCS, NLCS and World Series in HD. So, starting tomorrow, you should see notably better picture quality, comparable to their football efforts.

Check out this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=447840 for more MLB/FOX-HD updates.

-T

OTA HD and the whole mess of dealing with antennas and wiring is starting to look more appealing after all - it will no doubt involve quite a lot of trial and error to find the right equipment that works in your area, but once you find it that can mean huge savings in monthly costs, especially if all the SD channels you care about come in reliably too. Personally I don't care much about premium content anyway. At least with OTA if you can get some/most of the HD signals to come in you know you're dealing with the best signal you can get without any compromising by the Cable/Satellite company.

So is there a list somewhere of what channels are available OTA in OC ?

Originally posted by ukaussi
So is there a list somewhere of what channels are available OTA in OC ?

If you just mean OTA HD, that would be at least CBS, NBC, WB, ABC, FOX, UPN, and PBS. I think 9 and 18 are also broadcasting in digital, but I don't think any of it's high def yet.

Chris

Originally posted by ukaussi
So is there a list somewhere of what channels are available OTA in OC ? Very location specific. Enter your address and zip code here to get a concise list of channels you will be able to receive and what kind of antenna you would need for each:
www.antennaweb.org
The resulting list of channels you get is MUCH more extensive than what Cox offers.

From my location - South Mission Viejo (92692) - I am about 50 miles away at 318 degrees from Mount Wilson towers (in LA) and would need an amplified directional outdoor UHF antenna. The biggest problem is my Association doesn't permit rooftop antennas, and for me mounting the antenna outside from the ground with a clear path to the north (318 degrees actually) means some neighbors would be able to see it. I doubt that placing antenna in attic would work either. Also, wherever you put the antenna you have to deal with wiring everything up. Because of all these reasons I decided to try the Cox solution first.
This is a summary of the HDTV channels I would really care about:

SIGN NETWORK CHANNEL MILES FREQUENCY ANTENNA TYPE
KABC-DT ABC 7.1 50.8 53 lt green-uhf
KCBS-DT CBS 2.1 51.3 60 red-uhf
KTTV-DT FOX 11.1 50.6 65 red-uhf
KCOP-DT UPN 13.1 51.0 66 red-uhf
KNBC-DT NBC 4.1 50.7 36 blue-uhf

OTA is not an option for me unless I move. No reception where I live. Mt. Wilson is completely blocked by hills. Perhaps one day there will be a repeater, but I'm stuck with the other options.

Besides, at least for now, I'm not at all impressed with the quantity of HD programming available on the networks. I know this will change, but for now I'm happy with Discovery and INHD. I'm not a big NFL fan but I would like to see FSW in HD eventually. I can't count on OTA for this.

I think SAT is going to be a real viable option in the near future - there are a bunch of new satellites that have been launched recently for increasing HD bandwidth capacity. Cable will keep up only by laying more fiber. I think we're seeing the limitations of bandwidth now with cable, and I don't think they can rely on additional compression that might be available in the future. Despite VideooooGuy's optimism, I think Cable might be in some trouble.

Hope I'm wrong, because competition is the best way to get technological breakthroughs while keeping the price in check.

Thanks, I am a little further south and east of you (Ladera Ranch - 92694) and I don't hink I have a good line-of-site due to hills.

Hopefully Cox will expand their channels to include some of those that you can get OTA

I've been wondering about additional channels lately as well.

It's a new year and it's time to add some new locals.
My first choices for new locals would be:
705(KTLA-5-WB) WB has 11 primtime series in HD. Most notably for me -Smallville
713(KCOP-13-UPN) UPN will have 7 series in HD this year, most notably Enterprise.

I know it's a longshot, but it would also be great to get the 2 HDNet Stations.

Anyone heard rumors on any of these?

It's great to talk about new HD channels on Cox Cable coming this year but I think it's as likely as the Angels winning the World Series. Call me a bit pessimistic, but in-light of the problems they are currently having in delivering problem-free reception, it seems premature to ask for additional HD channels.

I just don't think they can do it unless major infrastructure changes are made (i.e. more fiber). In order to compete with satellite, Cox is going to be forced to make the necessary investments.

Does anybody know what additional capacity Cox has in place right now? Adding HD channels like WB, UPN & PBS couldn't cost them much (if anything), so my reasoning is that they are at capacity now if they don't add these.

Anyway, it's always fun to imagine the Angels winning another WS...

Cox is so maxed out right now that there is no chance for new HD choices untill they fix the problems at hand.

niesman

If they would only drop a bunch of the worthless analog channels, that would free up a lot of room for HD channels (I believe they can fit at least 2 HD channels per analog channel dropped) - but then that's risking pissing off the largest user base - basic cable.

What they need to do is go ALL digital. That would give them LOTS of bandwidth. They could probably add all the HD channels that are available (other than the homegrown ones like VOOM), and they could even probably add additional SD channels that they don't currently offer.

My experience has been that even though people only watch a few channels, they won't mind having to get a box if they are getting much more selection. Plus, how many people out there still don't have a cable box? I have 2 TV's that get basic cable (no box), but I have accepted the idea of having to have a box to get the extra features.

There are other alternatives. I have a friend in Phoenix that has one central location that acts as a box but allows for premium cable at all outlets. Not sure how it works, but he loves it. No boxes on the TV's, but he still gets all the features. Don't know if this works as a DVR solution, but MOXI (also motorola issued boxes) I think works similarly.

Of course this assumes that Cox would not raise rates (again) in the process. Plus it would be an advantage to us since the analog channels are awful in terms of PQ.

. . . One can dream.

Cox's Las Vegas HD lineup:
Discovery HD Theater TM
ESPN HD
INHD 1
INHD 2
HBO West
Cinemax HD
Showtime West
Starz! HD
CBS
PBS
ABC
NBC

It's cool how they have StarzHD. Anyway I hope that COX will carry Fox Sports West HD as the Laker season is about to begin.. Although I'm not sure I really want to watch much of this season..

-T

Several of you have mentioned UPN as desired. You should be aware that while:

1. UPN does transmit some programs in HD to its affiliates (Enterprise, Veronica Mars).
2. KCOPDT does transmit a digital signal most of the time.
3. KCOPDT is not only an affiliate, it's in UPN's home town!

KCOP does not transmit anything in true HD. It is all upconverted from SD.

It is claimed that they don't have the necessary equipment. They also have no announced plan to make this happen.

Perhaps this is because KCOP-13 is owned and operated by FOX! It shares KTTV-11's broadcast tower and some facilities.

Complain to KCOP & UPN & Fox. Plenty of blame to go around.

Was able to get the HD Converter ($9.95) and DVR Service ($4.95) charges waived from my bill for October (and presumably November) by calling customer service... they seem very aware of the problems and looks like others have called in to get fees waived besides myself.

Originally posted by moyekj
Just got the Cox bill for October. They are still charging $20 for all the HD charges:
HD Converter: $9.95
HD Expanded Tier: $4.95
DVR Service: $4.95
(I don't pay the $4.95 for HD service since I have 1 year free deal there when I bought my HDTV).
$20 for the garbage that is their HD programming + DVR right now is just not worth it. This despite a promise last time I called that all the HD-related charges would be discounted until the DVR was working properly. Sigh... I'll be on the phone tomorrow.

Why does Vegas get Cinemax, Starz and PBS in HD but we don't get those channels in Orange County? Oh well, at least we get Fox in HD instead.

Newbie here. Apparently the negotiate market by market.

Originally posted by rdenichilo
What they need to do is go ALL digital. That would give them LOTS of bandwidth . . . One can dream.
If it's true that freeing up the analog space would provide much additional capacity, I suggest a compromise: keep 2-13 only as analog and continue to offer it as very basic cable, or for extra TVs in the house. OK, add CNN and ESPN 2-15 and keep a few more people happy. Provide a low-end (non-HD) digital box as the next tier and make a WORKING HD-DVR as their highest. If Cox wants to turn features on and off with the two digital boxes, they can create additional pricing tiers, without having to invest in additional equipment (i.e. turn on/off the 2nd tuner, record capability, etc.). That's a marketing decision that technology allows. Cox would only need to stock, install, repair, have on their trucks and in their satellite offices :), only two boxes, for now. In a year or two, they can roll out a low-end HD box.

The new CableCard that is now mandated on new HD big screens will also provide Cox a 2nd level low-cost digital option.

I think the small amount of flack that Cox might get because of the loss in analog stations is nothing compared to all the additional capacity that will allow more HD stations with better PQ. It certainly is a good business decision which will allow them to compete with Satellite. It will allow more choices and allow higher-end options which would generate additional revenue.

I am a firm believer that competition is at the heart of technological advances and I want to see cable survive and thrive, even if I elect to switch to something else. With the adoption of higher compression software (MPEG-4) and the processors that will run them, Cox will be able to compete in the future. The cable companies have to make some smart decisions to make sure that these dreams will lead into reality.

I just got off the phone with Cox. Yes, they are extremely aware of all of the issues including the poor HDPQ that resulted from the head end fix. I was credited for both the converter and the box rental. The Cox rep told me that they are working hard with Moto to resolve all of the issues before November. The rep told me that they "are really hearing it" from the HD customers. I encourage all readers of this forum to call Cox and politely voice your concerns.

niesman

Originally posted by sucha deal!
[B]...analog space ...B]

While I agree they should convert analog channels to digital, and I would suggest channels 25-99 go to digital and free up space.

I would also argue that part of the problem is being beholden to all the sports networks that want 12+ channels each for season/league packages for all the NHL, NFL, NBA, or N-whatever leage....

Further what I MOST want to see added in HD is HD-PPV which DirecTV now offers. Who need movies starting every 30 minutes? Cut it to starting every hour and show them in either 16x9 480p or better. My point is they ought to be offering them in at LEAST DVD quality, HD would obviously be better but 480p 16x9 would be a nice start.

and it'd be great to get Discovery HD wihtout paying for ESPN HD... can you tell I'm not a sports fan?

Kind of a sidebar...this has been bugging me...are most movies even available in anything better than 480P? I know this is the industry standard for DVD but were most movies originally filmed/created in any greater detail?

Newbie here and grateful for this thread…

When I lived in central Irvine the OTA reception for HD was good or great (in attic antenna, no amp) and that with the OTD HD content from Dish I felt I had a decent HD package… oh, and loved not giving my business to Cox.

I recently moved into a new home in San Clemente (92673 – 56 mi from Mt.Wilson) with a huge hill behind me and, like moyekj, I’m in a sensitive HOA to outdoor antennas (Talega)… and I find them unappealing myself.

I stayed with Dish and after five weeks of service, I’m witnessing that I really miss the HD OTA content since we mostly watch the network programming.

I’m having Cox come out Saturday to install their HD package simply because I want HD content from the local stations. After reading all the complaints I’m starting to think this may not be a good idea.

I’m planning to have tandem providers (Dish & Cox) for a month to see which is best.

Also, my plasma has the cable card functionality and was curious to know any anyone on this thread had first hand experience with it. I hear from Cox you lose the channel guide and PPV functionality… is this correct? I don’t care about PPV, but the guide is pretty important.

Any feedback to the above is greatly appreciated!

Originally posted by UnHeardOf
I’m having Cox come out Saturday to install their HD package simply because I want HD content from the local stations. After reading all the complaints I’m starting to think this may not be a good idea.

I’m planning to have tandem providers (Dish & Cox) for a month to see which is best.

Any feedback to the above is greatly appreciated!

When we moved into our Irvine home 3 years ago, COX Orange County had no HD whatsoever. Initially, the only HD I was able to receive was OTA (CBS, NBC, WB, ABC barely, FOX barely, and sometimes UPN and KCAL digital). I added Dish Network a year and a half ago for their HD-PAK (had to subscribe for a year)... Being the overspenders we are, we kept regular COX Cable and Dish throughout... We got COX-HD as soon as it came out, because I was tired of having to move the antenna around for certain stations. After a year, I cancelled my DISH regular subscription, and kept only the HD-PAK. Also got the HD-DVR right when it came out.

So anyway, on to my advice, which would be, if you've never had a DVR before, GET IT. The ability to timeshift HD is just AWESOME. There's a foolproof (at least for me) way to always get it to work. I dunno why so many other people have problems it seems, but the fact is you only hear/read about people having problems on this board, not the hundreds of other people for whom things work "hunky dory". It has its issues, but it's way better, totally integrated w/ all the other channels, etc.

I'm keeping the DISH HD-PAK ($10 per month) and COX-HD. The extra $10 is basically for HD-NET, HD-NET Movies, and TNT-HD (for NBA basketball), which COX OC does not currently provide. For me, it's worth it. If I had to make a choice one or the other, I'd definitely go w/ COX-HD DVR service, as the DISH DVR (811?) is expensive and from what I've read, just as bad if not worse...

-T

Originally posted by neyugnt
There's a foolproof (at least for me) way to always get it to work.


Anything that requires multiple steps above and beyond pressing pause, rewind, fast-forward, or play is unacceptable. Would you accept having to jump-start your car every morning and having it backfire or stall every time you accelerated?


niesman

Thanks a bunch neyugnt!

It never occured to me to downscale the contect from Dish just to the HDPak. I'm comforted in knowing that I'm not the only spend-thrift here. ;)

Originally posted by niesman
Anything that requires multiple steps above and beyond pressing pause, rewind, fast-forward, or play is unacceptable. Would you accept having to jump-start your car every morning and having it backfire or stall every time you accelerated?


niesman

Look, I'm not sure what kind of problems you might be having with YOUR particular setup and box, but here in Irvine w/ my particular 6412, I haven't been having nearly as many problems as I've read, and I use the box, A LOT. I don't use the box to pause, fast forward, or rewind LIVE television, and that may be where you are experiencing a lot of grief. To that end, Cox is definitely giving you most of the service for free if I am not mistaken, if you call and complain to a service rep. I've even been able to submit an electronic email to their support online, and gotten a credit for installation charges to my account.

As far as my usage goes, my wife and I use it to record shows when we are not at home. Since the 9.11 update, I have had 0 zero-length recordings, never seen the subscription bug since, and have had NO ISSUES in terms of recording tiling or failed recordings. We record plenty of SD/HD shows, and many at the same time. I just remember to set both tuners to SD channels prior to leaving for work in the morning, and everything has been great (knock on wood).

So to make an analogy, I wouldn't say it's like having to jump start the car and dealing with backfire every morning. At least in my experience, I didn't get quite a lemon like that. I'd say it's like being able to use the car to drive back and forth from home and work. The wife can use the car too. But the heated seats don't work, the radio gets static sometimes if you fiddle around with it too much, and it's always running out of gas.

But definitely, UnHeardOf, you should at least try it out. Worse comes to worst you can always complain and get a credit for it, as many people (including myself) on this forum have done.

-T

neyugnt,

What you are happy with is unattended recording. The whole purpose of the 6412 was to capture the TiVo market for cable use (something TiVo does not offer). The basic functionality of such a device is to time shift live TV, record a second channel wile watching another, or watch a recorded program while recording up to two other channels. At this time the 6412 does none of these for anyone. Yes Cox is crediting me. I am glad that you are happy with the 6412. Obviously many of us are not.

niesman

Originally posted by niesman
The basic functionality of such a device is to time shift live TV, record a second channel wile watching another, or watch a recorded program while recording up to two other channels. At this time the 6412 does none of these for anyone.

I think unfortunately for HD viewers like me and yourself, it does this quite well... ...just not for HD channels at the moment. I've never had any problem pausing/rw/ff live TV if both tuners are locked onto SD stations. Obviously that is not the star selling point of the 6412 but from Cox's standpoint, it works "flawlessly" for 95% of their user base.

But you're right, for what it's worth, I am pleased with the 6412. This viewpoint is probably because I've never owned a TiVo or ReplayTV. I'm not saying it is without fault. Far from :) I think it has room for improvement as well. But I think it's worth giving it a shot and I'd definitely recommend it for the pure fact that if you think it's hogwash, you can pretty much get a full credit (and from my experience still get to use the box for the things that it does do correctly). But seriously with what's out there right now (DirecTV HD-TiVo, Dish 811, the 169time solution, and the HiPix PC for OTA only), what other choices are there for $5 a month?

-T

Originally posted by neyugnt
But seriously with what's out there right now (DirecTV HD-TiVo, Dish 811, the 169time solution, and the HiPix PC for OTA only), what other choices are there for $5 a month?

-T The problem is it's nowhere near $5/month. It's $33/month in addition to analog cable charges:
HD Expanded Tier: $4.95 (If you want ESPN/HD Discovery HD)
HD Converter: $9.95
DVR Service: $4.95
Digital Service: $12.95

That's $33 in addition to analog cable charges:
Cox limited basic: $16.20
Cox expanded service: $25.79

And don't forget the infamous FRANCHISE FEE of $4.87/month

For a grand total of $80/month, and that's with NO PREMIUM PROGRAMMING.

You can't get HD service without paying for Digital Service, which is total crap since I don't watch/need and of those SD digital channels. All I want is analog + HD channels + HDPVR, all the other stuff is fluff.

(If you already had digital service it's still $10/month extra if you throw in the HD Expanded tier.)

Originally posted by moyekj


For a grand total of $80/month, and that's with NO PREMIUM PROGRAMMING.

Thank You!!

And do not forget that when Cox does fix this, they are going to double the cost of the DVR service ( see my initial post about trying to get a discount, "Sir you are already getting a discount down from the intended price of $9.95).

niesman

Here's my take right now.

I think I've made it clear in previous posts that I'm very frustrated with some of the current bugs. Most notably for me are the tiling, "Subscription Service", and subsequent zero-length recordings.

These are indeed unacceptable and MUST be fixed.

On the other hand, try asking yourself: "If Cox called and told me they wanted to come take this box away until they fix the bugs, would I be OK with that?"

Something to think about...
The answer for me is NO, Please don't take it away!
Because even with the bugs, it is great to be able to record HD at all. It's better still that I can record TWO shows at once. This is despite the fact that I still have my Tivo, which I use to record SD prgramming.

If your answer is yes, then I'd call them and get the thing hauled away.

So for me, yes the bugs MUST get fixed, but I'll hang onto it while you're fixing them. At this point, the rapid progress I've seen in adding features/fixing bugs since this thing came out gives me enough hope that they will be fixed to hang in for now.

I'm also not ready to go spend $900+ for an HD satellite DVR yet. Not to mention the hassle of rewiring and having to use a set-top box on EVERY TV in the house.

My Cable bill for this month was $64.54, that includes Limited Basic, Expanded Service, Digital Service, HD Expanded Tier, DVR Service and Digital Converter Rental. (I get a discount for having Telephone and Internet from Cox.)

I haven't done the exact math, but to duplicate the same channel lineup, with locals from Dish or Directv is not much cheaper if at all. Even then, my chances of getting the Local HD stations OTA from where I live are not good.

For now that all adds up to me jumping through hoops to avoid bugs and while waiting anxiously for the upcoming fixes.

Cheers,
Ray

Originally posted by Tiresius
On the other hand, try asking yourself: "If Cox called and told me they wanted to come take this box away until they fix the bugs, would I be OK with that?"
Overcharging aside I think Cox is doing the fair thing for now by discounting the DVR-related charges (if you ask). By us not paying for the monthly charges this encourages them to fix the problems as fast as they can, so I would encourage everyone following these threads to call in and get your DVR charges waived. Meanwhile as you mentioned you can get some use out of the box by jumping through some hoops. I think the BIGGEST mistake Cox has made in all this mess is reducing the HD picture quality for EVERYONE trying to fix the DVR-related problems - although in a way this shows they are very committed to figuring out a fix so in that sense it's good.

Not to gang up on you, neyugnt (I wish I had customers like you), but could you imagine if Cox had similar problems with their digital phone service?

You would say:
"It works most of the time, especially when I'm not home"
"It takes great messages"
"So what if it disconnects me when I use call-waiting - they can always call back"
"There's only a lot of static when I'm talking long-distance"
"Only occasionally do I not get a dial-tone"

It, of course would not be tolerated, nor would Cox release such a product. It is nice of Cox to waive the $5, but it is of little consequence. What is especially concerning is that they released a product full of bugs and continue to offer this product, in spite of all the known problems.

And for a company to be in the communications business, there sure seems to be a lack of it. I just called the billing department to get my credit and the rep had "never heard about any problems with the DVR. They would have told me if there were problems. Have you had a technician go out there yet."

If you have read my past posts, you can see that I am quite enamored with the product and the promises of what it can deliver. It's just that we've been teased about the capabilities of the box but can't use them - alright, most of them. I'm frustrated that I cannot hit the Pause key to answer the phone without ruining the picture. Then to fix the picture requires a channel change which then clears the buffer. On top of this the 1 minute recordings, the guide holes, the subscription error and the resolution problems - well it adds up to a disappointing experience.

All of us on this thread is giving Cox the benefit of the doubt to come up with a fix. We're all counting on Cox to pull through. But what you can live with, neyugnt, perhaps forever, is what others are putting a timelimit to. For me, it's the end of the year.

I would like to sell you some investment property in Florida, however.

Got my new DVR tuner installed tonight and I already notice how much quieter the HD is on this unit. My old unit was extremely loud, more distracting than the fan on my projector.

I have already been able to record two HDTV programs and play them back without any freezing at all. :)

Of course, my old tuner worked flawlessly for a month. Hopefully this one will last longer. I hope I don't have to re-setup all of my series recordings again.


So far, much happier with this unit. :cool:

Originally posted by sucha deal!
It, of course would not be tolerated, nor would Cox release such a product. It is nice of Cox to waive the $5, but it is of little consequence. What is especially concerning is that they released a product full of bugs and continue to offer this product, in spite of all the known problems.

And for a company to be in the communications business, there sure seems to be a lack of it. I just called the billing department to get my credit and the rep had "never heard about any problems with the DVR. They would have told me if there were problems. Have you had a technician go out there yet."

All of us on this thread is giving Cox the benefit of the doubt to come up with a fix. We're all counting on Cox to pull through. But what you can live with, neyugnt, perhaps forever, is what others are putting a timelimit to. For me, it's the end of the year.

I see what most of you are getting at, and I guess you all have a right to be displeased with the service. Like I said, for what me and my wife use it for, it works great. I've never had a program, SD or HD that I've wanted to record fail since the 9.11 fix. I've never had the 0-length recording, or "Subscription Required" bug come up either (since 9.11 push). So maybe I'm lucky, but I've yet to have this puppy let me down when I set it up correctly.

I definitely would not want to live with it forever. I want to have the ability to fiddle with playback while recording two HD shows, with no tiling, and no picture degredation. By no means am I saying you are wrong to complain, or you are wrong to not like the product. I was merely suggesting to the other guy with the question on DISH vs. COX that he should give it a shot, and perhaps do what I did (keep both, but use the COX DVR instead of opting for the Dish one).

By the way you mentioned your problem w/ the billing department and credit. Were you eventually able to get to someone who helped you? If not let me know and I'll try to help.

-T

HD Tiling and subscription bug leading to 0-minute recordings came back with a vengeance tonight. I know it's the subscription bug causing the 0-minute recordings because after the failed recording I tuned to the channel that was supposed to get recorded and got the subscription notice for several seconds before it went away and tuned properly. :( It's weird how the problems come and go - I can't discern any pattern to them. Good thing I have 4 ReplayTVs that cover all missed recordings on the 6412 and much more without any trouble - they can't record HD but at least they do what they're supposed to.

On the plus side, the Guide Hole bug seems like it was stomped on for good. 1 down, several more to go.

Originally posted by neyugnt
By the way you mentioned your problem w/ the billing department and credit. Were you eventually able to get to someone who helped you? If not let me know and I'll try to help.
-T
Even though he "never heard of any problems with the DVR", he nonetheless credited my account, which surprised me. I doubt that my complaint was ever logged or escalated.

Thanks for your offer, though.

Don

Nobody addressed my cable card question... any thoughts or experiences?

"Also, my plasma has the cable card functionality and was curious to know any anyone on this thread had first hand experience with it. I hear from Cox you lose the channel guide and PPV functionality… is this correct? I don’t care about PPV, but the guide is pretty important."
:confused:

Originally posted by UnHeardOf
Nobody addressed my cable card question... any thoughts or experiences?

The is no way you will get the guide with a CableCard. I understand that they are working on CableCard2 which is bidirectional and might have additional capabilities, but this is down-the-road. CableCard was mandated by the FCC (I believe) to make it super-easy for someone to plug it in and get digital cable, but I doubt it would be useful for any high-end user like those who would be on this thread.:), so it might be difficult to get a response here, but there is lot's of discussion elsewhere in the Forum. I also would be curious at how/if it works.

I just purchased the Sony GW3 and got it for a reasonable price because the new GW4 added CableCard and the HD Tuner, neither of which I felt I needed, now or in the future. If I had LOS to Mt. Wilson, I might have gone for the GW4.

Originally posted by moyekj
It's weird how the problems come and go - I can't discern any pattern to them.

Videooooguy has stated that this has to do with the HD bandwidth being sent from the content provider, which changes throughout the day.

Originally posted by jb510
I agree they should convert analog channels to digital, and I would suggest channels 25-99 go to digital and free up space.

Who need movies starting every 30 minutes?

I wonder if Video On Demand will eliminate the need for all the PPV channels that eat-up bandwidth? All the sports packages could also be VOD. But will this make the bandwidth issue better or worse? What happens if there is a huge population of customers down-streaming at once? Couldn't this make matters even worse?

I agree with jb that there is such tremendous waste of existing bandwidth that could be used for our HD programming. Wouldn't it be interesting to get a histogram of usage at any given time, even for those that don't have HD? I would say that at least 50% of the time, we're watching something in the 700's. As more HD TVs get out there, we'll see this trend continuing.

So what I am saying is given a fixed maximum bandwidth, the cable companies really ought to give much more consideration to the HD viewer. Advertising "250 digital channels" is ridiculous when there's currently only 3 full-time HD ones. They should immediately add PBS, KCOP & UPN as soon as these stations are broadcasting in HD at no additional cost, and add other Premium HD service channels ASAP.

Cable is going to find it difficult to keep up with all the extra bandwidth coming with satellite. Cox should chose quality over quantity.

I think that Cox still has a very large number of analog Pioneer set-top boxes out there... Converting analog channels to digital is easier said than done...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these analog boxes just get 2-99, right? 99.9% of TVs have this capability. I believe the only thing they may still offer is to unscramble the very, very few premium channels that exist still in analog. And maybe some PPV, but I don't even know if they offer that anymore. I might be a bit skeptical, but it's probably because Cox can make $5 a month on these boxes that most people don't need, but don't know they don't need it.

You are correct. These boxes can receive the analog HBO and Showtime channels.

HD is particularly bad today. Pixelization on all HD channels. Discovery and HBO are the worst, with HBO being unwatchable.

Anyone else havine PQ issues today?

It's been horrible for a week now. We're all waiting...
Anybody call Cox lately?

In a desperate move today I tried to see if the OTA route would work here in Mission Viejo. With a cheapish radio shack amplified indoor antenna I was barely able to get all the network channels on VHF band (2-13), and that was with the antenna outside on the upstairs porch. I couldn't get a single UHF channel, however, so digital OTA reception seems to be out of the question. :( I figured if an indoor antenna could receive 1 or 2 UHF channels that I might have a chance with a real outdoor antenna to get the network OTA DT channels... Guess I'll have to be patient and see if Cox can fix the remaining issues.

Originally posted by moyekj
Guess I'll have to be patient and see if Cox can fix the remaining issues.
1-800-SATELLITE:)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=191672

Try reading this archived thread. You'd be surprised at what can be had OTA.

Robert

Robert, thanks, yes that thread is what inspired me to try OTA in the first place. My problem is that there is a 150 ft hill directly north of me and very close by. I may give southbound towards San Diego a try today, but that sounds even less promising. My guess is that through trial and error and buying a bunch of antennas I may be able to receive a few channels, but the spouse would not be too forgiving of that approach, and HOA will not approve of any roof mounted antennas. antennaweb.org in my situation recommends medium directional pre-amplified roof-mounted antenna which is out of the question for me. :(

Looks like HD picture quality is back to what it used to be - i.e. not excessive checkerboard macro blocking on fast motion. Of course the side effect is that tiling comes back with a vengeance. I can live with the tiling problem until the November update which is supposed to fix that problem. For anyone wondering what the HD tiling bug really looks like, here's some samples from FOX HD (711) from today's NFL game:

http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/CIMG0224.JPG

http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/CIMG0225.JPG

ageed, HDPQ is back, so is tiling. HDPQ was back as of Friday.

niesman

HD PQ was really BAD here yesterday, and HBO-HD is still horrible. All but HBO is better today, with FOX Sports HD looking great. Channel 711 is as good as OTA.

Anyone have any info on HBO-HD? Is it HBO or just us? Other threads talk about how good the Matrix Revolutions (or was it Reloaded?) looked, but it was bad here. Lots of macroblocking.

I agree. I watched both HBO and SHO and saw lots of tiling. HDPQ is not back if we're all getting the same signal. One movie that shows it the best - Bad Boys II. Constant macro-blocking in the beginning. I can never watch more than a few minutes as it is really bad.

I don't see the improvement your talking about, but perhaps Cox is rolling-out some new equipment in different areas. It's too bad there isn't a VideooooGuy equivalently here in Orange County who can give us a little more insight. Most Cox reps/techs you call here don't have a clue. Some are polite, but still clueless.

As of last night, Picture Quality on the 6412 is still terrible on Showtime HD and HBO HD. Discovery & INHD are worse now than when I first got the 6208 in August with artifacting now occurring all the time on fast moving closeups. This is without hitting any transport functions, of course.

The baseball game looked pretty good on Fox (711) last night - in fact, I could use less resolution especially when they zoom in on some disgusting looking players & coaches (mostly Red Socks) chewing & spitting! Good game though!

Most of my HD recordings are off the network channels or ESPN HD and I don't subscribe to HBO/SHO and rarely look at INHD1/2 or Discovery HD. At least for football games on CBS HD, FOX HD and ESPN HD this weekend the picture quality was as good as I remember back with the 6200 - no noticeable motion artifacting.

I agree about clueless local Cox support. Given all the problems we are having I feel I should be calling them and harrassing them a lot more, but I don't feel like waiting on hold only to reach a clueless person that knows less than I do and nothing gets accomplished. Half the time the response I get is "really, this is the first I've heard of these problems" which really gets me mad. They always claim they will "pass on" information to others in the company who have a clue, but I'm not sure those people ever get the information or give a damn anyway.

I have asked several times about local Cox support participating in online forums of some sort for more productive interaction such as we have with VideooooGuy - the answer I always get is that is against corporate policy to participate in any online forums and that VideooooGuy is violating that policy. I don't want to push the issue any more for fear of getting VideooooGuy in trouble and booted off the forum.

Has anyone noticed that Closed Caption does not seem to work properly on some stations with the new DVR. The local stuff (ABC, CBS, NBC) work fine, but the pay stuff (HBO, Starz, Cinemax, Showtime) seem to be screwed up. It looks like it is adding too many letters in the sentences (Iiiiiittttt Lllllooookksss LLliiiikkkkeeee Ttttthhhiiissss). Anyone else have this problem?

Originally posted by skfields01
Has anyone noticed that Closed Caption does not seem to work properly on some stations with the new DVR. The local stuff (ABC, CBS, NBC) work fine, but the pay stuff (HBO, Starz, Cinemax, Showtime) seem to be screwed up. It looks like it is adding too many letters in the sentences (Iiiiiittttt Lllllooookksss LLliiiikkkkeeee Ttttthhhiiissss). Anyone else have this problem?

Yes I have noticed three things now with the closed captioning in Omaha.

1. I estimate closed captioning is only working on about 10 percent of all of the channels.

2. There is the stretch/letter word syndrome on some channels.

3. The closed caption box is now very large and runs from top to bottom of the tv leaving a little bit of picture on the left and a big chunk of picture on the right. this is kind of like when the tv is on first and the 6412 box is off, I get picture on the left, a big black box in the middle and a picture bar on the right?

Originally posted by moyekj
...I have asked several times about local Cox support participating in online forums of some sort for more productive interaction such as we have with VideooooGuy - the answer I always get is that is against corporate policy to participate in any online forums and that VideooooGuy is violating that policy...

I don't blame Cox or anyone else for not putting people in forums to answer questions. Just look at the onslaught of questions Videoooguy is berated with every time he posts. Look at the the conjecture getting posted that was absolutely no basis in fact... recall for days many people suggesting the 6412 must not have enough processing power to keep up with recording two HD streams... etc... As soon as any company were to open the door to support in a public forum like this you'd have total chaos. Not to mention, how would a company like Cox choose which public forums to put CSR's into? just AVS? what about Home Theater Spot, etc... They would in effect be giveing that forum thier endorsement. They'd also be using it for thier own corporate for profit use, shouldn't they then PAY the website for all the extra traffic they are driving there? The problems with having a CSR operate in a truly PUBLIC and independent forum go on and on...

Now IMHO the BEST solution you could ever practically hope for is a company that published a FAQ updated daily on current service issues. Cox actually has a fairly good history, with me, in terms of responding both by phone and by email to all of my service, billing and technical inquires, and I'm just fine with that.

Originally posted by jb510
I don't blame Cox or anyone else for not putting people in forums to answer questions. Just look at the onslaught of questions Videoooguy is berated with every time he posts. That proves how little information anyone can obtain from Cox through normal support channels - everyone is starved for information. Cox could easily setup their own forum at cox.com or even Cox OC could set one up at cox.com/oc. I don't even care if there is a forum - some useful outlet of information would be a good start. The CSRs that I have reached are totally clueless and as I've stated many times before, calling them about technical issues is worthless. Email support is even worse than phone support - half the time I just get a canned response with no useful information which means the recipient either doesn't know the answer or doesn't care. The current support system just doesn't work which is why something different needs to be tried. I've dealt with companies such as this long enough to know I can't expect much if anything from them, but at least I try and suggest ways for them to improve - if they choose not to listen or care that's entirely within their rights.

Originally posted by jb510
recall for days many people suggesting the 6412 must not have enough processing power to keep up with recording two HD streams... etc...

To date The 6412 has yet to demonstrate this capability without compromising the PQ and I have to agree with moyekj, COX customer service has significant issues when it comes to servicing HD customers.


niesman

Originally posted by jb510
Cox actually has a fairly good history, with me, in terms of responding both by phone and by email to all of my service, billing and technical inquires

Well, I called Cox technical support earlier this evening, just so I can experience the high level of support that jb gets on a regular basis.

I pressed the telephone menu choices so that I was channeled to the "HD-DVR specialist". I played dumb (something my wife would say I do naturally) and asked her if she knew of any problems with the high-resolution picture quality or any problems with the DVR box. I explained that HBO & Showtime didn't look clear and also when I hit the replay button or rewind on my remote, the picture would "break-up".

She said that she HAS NOT HEARD OF ANY PROBLEMS, and that the symptoms I described indicates LOW SIGNAL STRENGTH! When I very politely (I learn to be polite from these forums) mentioned that I have some friends (that's you, guys) who are experiencing similar problems, she said she would check with a "lead technician". OK, I thought, we'll get somewhere now. A couple of minutes later she was back saying the Lead HAS NOT HEARD OF ANY PROBLEMS EITHER and that she would suggest that THEY SEND A TECHNICIAN OUT right away. She also added that THE BAD WEATHER could also be a factor. Then she wanted to know if I had ADDED ANY SPLITTERS.

Well, that's when I casually mentioned that I don't think a technician would be necessary and that "I heard" that Cox is working on these problems, specifically changing some of their "head-end" equipment, and I was just wondering how that was going. Boy, I thought I blew my cover... then she said "According to my records, you have never had a technician come to your house (wrong) and check your SIGNAL STRENGTH. This is what we need to do first."

This is what I have learned:

- There is a lack of communication within the Cox organization, either by design, or lack of good business practices.
- There is a propensity to "send a tech out" as the cure-all. I have already had a tech come out needlessly, but on Cox's insistence, and his comment was "I don't know why they send me out..."
- there is great consistency when calling Cox for support - this must be the 6th time I have gotten the same responses.
- they must have a big problem with signal strength
- this forum and people like VideooooGuy have been a real blessing and have provided great insight, camaraderie and some solidarity with the current HD mess. It is great to hear VideoooGuy's optimism that a cure-all is well in-hand and the November "fix" should take care of everything.
- If not for VideoooGuy, I might have already pulled the plug on Cox.
- Participation in these forums from some "higher-ups" in large corporations should be encouraged and rewarded. It ultimately is great PR for those companies whom have nothing to hide.
- jb510 must have some friends in high places at Cox.
- I think I will be voting for VideoooGuy for President...

Originally posted by sucha deal!
...jb510 must have some friends in high places at Cox...

Nope, not one. Well in the interest of full disclosure. I have a co-worker whose neighbor works for Cox as an installer,. I've only met him once, he's never worked on my equipment and I've never talked to him about Cox or his work. I wouldn’t call him a “friend” nor would I consider him someone in “high places” unless he frequently uses a ladder to do installs.

Obviously your mileage will vary with Customer Support from any company. I'm just going off my experience with Cox. As I've said before I've received BETTER information via email than I have by phone, but I've also always been reasonably satisfied with the phone support I've received as well.

Perhaps you should consider that the majority of the problems with PQ that get reported to them are low signal strength and that weather could be a factor and that CSR's are appropriately suggestion that as the MOST LIKELY cause and solution.

I’ve absolutely HAD all the problems when the dual tuner was released: tiling on HD recording when using FF/RR/Pause, subscription bugs, guide holes, and 0-minute recordings. I HAVE NOT had ANY of those problems AT ALL since the head end fix was put in place. So, please try to accept that you are in the minority of Cox customers if you're still having THOSE problems and be thankful that Cox is STILL working to address those problems for you. Paraphrasing Videoooguy from memory “the DCT6412 is performing without problems in many markets and only has problems with one particularly head end hardware combination”

I DO now have an issue with HD PQ (compression blocking on fast action and scene changes). Specifically on HBO-HD and SHO-HD, although I've now noticed it to a less extent on INHD1/2.

When I called Cox to complain about the HD PQ a week ago, the phone call went like this:

Me: "I'm noticing some severe degradation of the HD PQ on HBO-HD and SHO-HD, especially on fast action and on scene changes"

Cox: "I'm sorry to hear that sir... blah blah blah... let me try to help you... blah blah blah... This is a know problem with the HD-DVR called 'tiling' [I kid you not this is exactly what they said]. Cox is aware of the problem and is expecting to install the fix in early November. This update will occur automatically and a technician will not need to come out to your house."

Me: "I'm aware of that problem, but the problem I'm having is different. When I was having that problem it was occuring when I'd FF/RR a HD show while recording another. This is happening when nothing is being recorded and affect the PQ of the whole screen... the tiling problem would only causing little pockets of garbled image to occur. "

Cox: "I'm sorry to hear that... blah blah blah... Let me talk to my supervisor… could you please hold.”

Me: “Yes”

Cox: “He thinks it may be the signal strength then, the first thing we should do is have a tech come out and eliminate the signal strength the problem, there would be no charge for you... when would you like them to come out"

Me: "Well, I think it's a problem with the broadcaster or Cox since I never had signal strength problems with the DCT6200... Maybe the fix coming in November will fix this problem too. I'll wait and see if that fixes it before I have a tech come out"

Cox: "Ok sir... blah blah blah... I’ll make a report/note of you issue with the HD PQ in case others are reporting similar problems. Is there anything else I can do for you today... blah blah blah..."

Me: “No thank you…”

Hi Folks,

Let's keep our expectations in line. While I have read about the November update, I don't believe VideoooGuy ever said it was a cure all and I believe there was at least one issue he said they were still researching to ascertain the problem. Yes...let's hang in there and commiserate until Cox gets the bugs resolved.

Just an FYI for VideoooGuy and those interested...

Was watching the baseball game last night on Fox 711. Don't know if this is what you would call "tiling" or "macro blocking" but even in non-action scenes I was getting many instances where the audio was dropping and the screen was randomly painted with horizontal streaks.

From what I can tell from Videooooguy's posts, the November update will fix the HD picture tiling and FF/Play bugs and will add some new features that he's not talking about yet. It will NOT fix the Subscription/Zero-Length Recording bug, because they have not yet identified the cause of it. And the Guide Hole bug is already fixed.

Just_Cruising, that description sounds exactly like the HD tiling bug.

gb61 is correct. There has been no fix identified for the subscription and/or 0-minute recording problems according to VideooooGuy, so the November update won't include fixes for those, which is why I was trying to suggest some workarounds for Cox to use in the Cox/Pioneer 6412 thread.

jb510, unfortunately you seem to be in the minority when it comes to getting customer support from Cox OC. Note that I have had Cox OC for 7 years now, so I'm talking about past experiences with them too, not just the recent PVR-related ones. I complained about signal strength for years, and they sent technicians out measuring signal strength and claiming signal levels were within reason but refusing to look at the picture which was pretty bad on certain channels. Finally I gave up and spent $100 on a good bi-directional amp (thanks to AVS Forum for tips on what to buy) and guess what - the problem was fixed. The story doesn't end there by a long shot, but I won't bore you with more details - suffice it to say I have not had good support. And yes, I have looked at Satellite and OTA as alternatives but have good reasons to not switch to those services either. Anyway, must get off this soapbox now.

BTW, read an article today that Cox is going private. The majority shareholder will be buying out remaining common stock in the next few months. I don't know if this bodes well for us or not, but my inclination is that things will probably get worse before they get better.

Originally posted by moyekj


BTW, read an article today that Cox is going private. The majority shareholder will be buying out remaining common stock in the next few months. I don't know if this bodes well for us or not, but my inclination is that things will probably get worse before they get better.

If true, this will be bad for everyone.


niesman

Originally posted by niesman
If true, this will be bad for everyone.
niesman Why would I make it up? Here's a link:
http://www.forbes.com/associatedpress/feeds/ap/2004/10/19/ap1598494.html

moyekj,

I did not mean to imply that the news was a fabrication. I should have said that "if the privatization does take place". As we all know, moves like this doe not always hold up in court or with the FTC.

niesman

I haven't had any problems since I received my new DVR box. Sometimes there is minor "tiling", but it is very rare. On Monday I was able to record channel 5 and 704 at the same time with no problems. CSI:Miami on channel 702 also recorded without any problems. Plus the hard drive is much quieter than the old one that I had.

Are your DVR hard drives loud enough to be distracting when watching TV? My old one was more distracting than the fan on my projector. The new one is nearly silent, even when recording two HD shows.

I am now very happy with the DVR service. But, HBO-HD and Showtime-HD still have terrible picture quality and I wish that they would add the WB to the HDTV lineup soon.

Can't hear mine unless I am standing right next to it with the volume off.

Originally posted by Sydor25
Are your DVR hard drives loud enough to be distracting when watching TV? My hard drive in the 6412 is terribly noisy all the time, even when unit is turned off - like it's constantly writing to the disk kind of noise - which as we know is all the time (buffering to disk).

Originally posted by moyekj
My hard drive in the 6412 is terribly noisy all the time, even when unit is turned off - like it's constantly writing to the disk kind of noise - which as we know is all the time (buffering to disk).

Do you still experience problems with watching HDTV and using the transport functions? Do you still have to tune your DVR to non-HD programs before you turn it off in order to record HDTV programs without problems? Can you record one HDTV program and watch another HDTV channel and still use all of the transport functions without causing the recorded show to become "unstable"?

Were you one of the first to get the DVR? Has it always been really loud? Or just since the dual tuner upgrade?

If I was you, I would call Cox to get a replacement DVR. Your hard drive might be contributing to some of the problems that you are experiencing with watching HDTV. My old DVR was really distracting when watching DVDs (even with the DVR turned off). Right now I am recording two HDTV shows and I am watching a recorded show and everything is working fine. *knock on wood*

Sydor25, yes I still get the HD tiling problems and I do take precautions of tuning to non-HD channels before a recording is scheduled on the unit. Using transport functions while an HD program is recording very often results in HD tiling. VideooooGuy has made it very clear that the problem is in the firmware however, and will be fixed in November, so I don't believe the hard drive is responsible for that problem. I have had periods where I couldn't cause HD tiling to occur, and VideooooGuy has mentioned that variations in the HD broadcast bit rate are responsible for the eratic behavior. Besides tiling, I'm rarely getting subscription/0-minute recording problems. If the 6412 was in the bedroom I would definately have it replaced to try and relieve the noise, but being in the living room it doesn't really bother me much, and its not distracting enough when watching either - I will patiently await the November update at this point before taking any other action.

Just an FYI:

There is now a thread for Bakersfield, CA - HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=460701) for those of you actually closer to Bakersfield - or for any discussion related to the Bakersfield affiliates.

I believe I have a 6208 box (non -DVR) box, that I have enabled firewire on so I can record to D-VHS.

got it back in July, and most of my recordings to D-VHS were mediocre at best. HBO was a bust (picture and sound break ups and freezing every 2 minutes...), InHD varied, Showtime was great (perfect picture and recordings)

However, all content was flagged for CP so I couldn't dump it to my LG unit for hard drive playback.

After just about giving up on my box, I tried recording about a month later after having unplugged my box and giving up. In late August, not only were my recordings from Showtime AND InHD perfect, but they were not flagged for CP. This enabled me to dump to my LG, which strips out null packets and tells me exactly how large the recordings are.

Most of my movies from Showtime and InHD clocked in around 8-12GB in storage space (shows how much bitrate is being used).

Well, I'm experiencing the problems everyone else here is now. Showtime and HBO are unwatchable. The picture (every frame) is so riddled with artifacts, it's WORSE than DVD. Yes, it really is that bad. When you suddenly are distracted with artifacting, that's bad.

Now, movies I recorded like Full Metal Jacket, Karate Kid, and a few others all clock in always at less than 6GB in storage space. That's worse than DVD.

Shockingly, InHD has been really good. Although Up in Smoke clocked in at 6GB, looked great. No breakups, etc. Only a couple of severely fast motion scenes in the IMAX movies showed some macroblocking.

But overall Showtime and HBO are in the shitter. Only InHD is watchable.

Originally posted by bwiklem
Now, movies I recorded like Full Metal Jacket, Karate Kid, and a few others all clock in always at less than 6GB in storage space. That's worse than DVD. That's a good datapoint indeed, especially if that's for an HD recording? I've pulled a few 1 hour HD shows in the past to WinXP hard drive from DiscoveryHD and they were consistently about 8GB. If these are indeed 80-90 minute HD recordings only taking 6GB then that means Cox has throttled down the bit rate SIGNIFICANTLY on the HD streams which would certainly explain the bad checkerboard macro-blocking on fast-motion scenes. Can you confirm it's 6GB for an HD show of about 90 mins?

Originally posted by moyekj
Finally I gave up and spent $100 on a good bi-directional amp (thanks to AVS Forum for tips on what to buy) and guess what - the problem was fixed.


Go to our favorite auction site and search for "Electroline" (can't post that sites links here...more silly rules) or search by this item number 5717246940 He also has an online store:

http://stores."auctionsitename" .com/Electroline-Cable-TV-Amps


I highly recommend anyone running a splitter use one of the high bit rate units. I have the 4 port model, I got it with the power supply for under $25 shipped. He has many different models. I too learned about them in the hardware forums here.

Pic..


http://www.cfsipgames.com/users/gebirgs88/pics/EDA4G.jpg

bwiklem, tonight I captured ER HD recording (from NBC HD) to my hard drive. Came out to a total of 8.5G for a 62 minute recording, so it's in line with what I was getting a while back.

Very interesting on the bit rate though:
The bit rate as reported by Womble was 30,808 Kbps VBR
From my previous clips, the bit rate was 38,810 Kbps CBR
So looks like the stream has changed from constant higher bit rate to a variable bit rate with a max quite significantly lower than the previous constant rate. This may explain why we have noticed more artifacting on high motion scenes.

Originally posted by moyekj
bwiklem, tonight I captured ER HD recording (from NBC HD) to my hard drive. Came out to a total of 8.5G for a 62 minute recording, so it's in line with what I was getting a while back.

Very interesting on the bit rate though:
The bit rate as reported by Womble was 30,808 Kbps VBR
From my previous clips, the bit rate was 38,810 Kbps CBR
So looks like the stream has changed from constant higher bit rate to a variable bit rate with a max quite significantly lower than the previous constant rate. This may explain why we have noticed more artifacting on high motion scenes.

Ironically I don't record OTA (ABC/NBC/etc) through Cox, but use an OTA antenna directly to my LG unit. I got Cox only for the pay channels and InHD.

Back to your other question, films like Italian Job from Showtime (back in August), although 2:35:1 clocked in around 9GB total space. Full screen stuff like Dangerous Curves clocked in around 10GB of space (full screen = 16x9)

Now, full screen is clocking in at 5.8GB-6.22GB. And this is FULL SCREEN as opposed to OAR movies (Ronin, Italian Job, etc.) that clock in at nearly 50% more.

Someone has throttled back.

InHD ironically looks fantastic. Brilliant. Occasionally I get a macroblock on a very challenging scene. But Show/HBO are now in the shitter,

Bums me out...

BTW - does Womble strip out the null packets? If not, it's not giving you an accurate bit count. My buddy dumps stuff to his PC hard drive, and his numbers don't equal mine, and that's because his program isn't stripping

Originally posted by bwiklem
BTW - does Womble strip out the null packets? If not, it's not giving you an accurate bit count. My buddy dumps stuff to his PC hard drive, and his numbers don't equal mine, and that's because his program isn't stripping Not sure, but in the Motorola/Pioneer 6412 thread VideooooGuy confirmed they have throttled back the bit rate in the headend software so as to diminish the HD tiling bug. He also claims this is *temporary* and that now they have discovered a true headend fix (instead of a workaround) and that the original bit-rates should be restored after the new headend fix sometime soon (before the November firmware update). I assume the bit-rate throttle back applies to all HD streams so perhaps this explains the drop in quality on the premium HD channels of late.

I've not noticed problems with HBO or SHO to tell the truth, and have actually watched quite a few HD movies on each lately too. No 6412 yet though, still watching what goes on in here, sounds like next month may be the time to call it in.

I just installed the Electroline Splitter/Amp mentioned above. Not been up there (Attic) in awhile. I forgot Cox had unplugged the original splitter/amp from the previous owner (more then 10 years ago) which ironically was an old Electroline unit. (much smaller, chrome finish) The had tons of regular splitters. (One to split Digtal PC and TV, another to split the HD from the others that went into a 1 into 3 split to the other TV's. I took the first PC/TV split and ran the TV line as the RF in to the new Electroline. Then all 4 TV's (1 HD box, 1 Digital box, 2 no box) came out of that. The Electroline I have is not suited for Cable modems, though he has ones that are. Lucky I had power up there from the old unit, I got the Green light right away.)

The picture on all so far is great! Analog shows nice improvement (on my 55" HD RPTV), and my problems with the Master Bedroom Digital box seem fixed for now. I'll no more over the next coule days as I play with them. For now Football on 2 & 11 look a lot better!!!! Wish I'd not waited so long to install it, but even today it was probably a 100 degrees up there! :D (fixed a gable fan too)

I would add that if I did it again (will sometime) I'd buy the newer 1/8 1Ghz Bi-Directional unit. That way my Cable Modem cable can run through it (losing yet another splitter) and just more future proofing. It runs on his site as a $59 buy it now...or there are bid versions also....

Tiling problem appears to be close to being fixed. Tonight I am able to put both tuners on HD channels, FF and RW on both so both tuners are playing from buffer, go to a recorded HD program and FF and RW there, and then stop recording, FF both tuners up to live program and no tiling at all.

Seems Cox implemented some fix. That said, PQ on HBO and Showtime is horrible. Even had macro blocking on INHD in fast motion scenes. That is not good, and frankly HBO and Showtime are not acceptable.

I still got tiling after I played back a recorded program. Only one tuner was on an HD program. I had to change the channel and return to get rid of the tiling.

Originally posted by rdenichilo
Tiling problem appears to be close to being fixed.
Things look as bad as ever. I'm still waiting for the November fix.

I sure hope VideoooGuy is right! If Cox can get their act together, and then add a couple more HD channels, I'll be a believer. Otherwise, Zoom is offering a $150 instant rebate until the end of the year, but it requires a contract. At least Cox is month to month.

One of the strangest problem I have run into yet I posted in other thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4571983#post4571983

HBO & Showtime HD look much improved this week. At least I can start watching them again. At least as long as I don't touch the remote . . .

Originally posted by rdenichilo
HBO & Showtime HD look much improved this week


Not to me, Although the slow moving scenes do demonstrate improved "punch" in PQ, ANY and I do mean ANY motion faster than walking reveals macro-blocking. This was not the case a year ago.

Also, I was at my in-laws house last night. They have the SD version of the 6412 ( the s710??). What a joy to use. All of the transport functions work correctly, no tiling, no missed recordings and excellent SD PQ (S-video connection). Lets all hope that Videoooguy and his coworkers have worked out the bugs.


niesman

Lots of motion artifacting while watching football on CBS-HD today... FOX-HD looks pretty good.

I used TSReader Lite to analyze some clips to extract the true Video bit rates:
CBS-HD: 13.97Mbps (1920x1080i, 30fps)
FOX-HD: 11.74Mbps (1280x720p, 60fps)

NOTE: This compared to ~19Mbps for OTA.

Football on CBS-HD from COX is really bad compare to OTA. I check both the Saturday and Sunday game. So I think this is problem with COX.

I concur, FOX was very sharp. CBS was washed out looking. No artifacts or breakup though...just sorta "dull" looking picture.

Hey Guys...


Just got HDTV (non-PVR) a couple weeks ago over here in Laguna Niguel and have a PT 53x54 HDTV and have a few questions about the Motorola HDTV STB.

In the setup menu when the converter is off it has choices/settings for HDTV mode (16:9),HD output (1080i) and what to do with the regular SD 4:3 channels (choices of 480i, 480p and "OFF").

What should I set the last setting to? It came with 480i as the default, but 480p is progressive and I thought that was supposed to be better. Also, I have a progressive scan DVD I thought maybe the 480p setting would be best for it.

The HDTV signals are great to my eyes but the anolog channels are a bit fuzzy. Obviously they won't be even close to HDTV but I was wondering if any of you guys have seen a PQ difference between the different Motorola settings.

Thanks guys!! Looking forward to learning a lot on this forum.

Off the subject. I have been looking for some Kay-Halbert Tv made in Culver City in the 50's. If you have any info please Pm me. G.B.

Originally posted by Quigs
What should I set the last setting to? It came with 480i as the default, but 480p is progressive and I thought that was supposed to be better. Also, I have a progressive scan DVD I thought maybe the 480p setting would be best for it.
480p if your TV supports it (which it most likely does). For DVD player you definately want to use 480p. NOTE: Some DVD players need to be configured to output 480p via component. My DVD player out of box only supported 480i output until I consulted the manual to change it.

The HDTV signals are great to my eyes but the anolog channels are a bit fuzzy. Obviously they won't be even close to HDTV but I was wondering if any of you guys have seen a PQ difference between the different Motorola settings.
All analog channels must be encoded to digital when processed by the 6412 (so that it can store the information on the hard drive as digital bits) and unfortunately the analog encoder for the 6412 is not very good. Consequently any little noise in analog signals really gets aggravated when going through 6412 - for my case many of the analog channels show a lot of granularity and noise - but it doesn't bother me because I use ReplayTV for all SD analog (and digital) recordings, dedicating 6412 exclusively for HD recordings only. The encoding done by the ReplayTV is vastly superior to that of the 6412 even at lowest quality settings.

Thanks moyekj...i'll make sure to set each.


Other question about Cox HDTV stations.

Any word on if they will get TNT-HD? They will have 40-50 bball games in HD this year. What's the best way to "encourage" Cox to pick up that channel. I'll give em a call but who knows if that even gets heard by the powers that be.

Originally posted by Quigs

Other question about Cox HDTV stations.

Any word on if they will get TNT-HD? They will have 40-50 bball games in HD this year. What's the best way to "encourage" Cox to pick up that channel. I'll give em a call but who knows if that even gets heard by the powers that be. Good question. I inquired before (on the phone) about future HDTV lineup expansion plans and was given some canned/generic answer - basically the CSR didn't know. If anyone has recent info on this or actually got a useful answer to this question I'd also like to know.

I also still get the generic answer. I've been wanting them to add Fox Sports West HD, KTLA (WB)-HD, and Starz-HD for quite some time. Luckily for me, I still have Dish-Network (10 per month just for the HD PAK) in addition to my Cox sub so I get all the TNT-HD games from that. The games look pretty sweet, comparible to the NBA-TV (IN-HD) stuff, on my setup better than ESPN 720p. It's good stuff.

-T

Ok, I just got off the phone with Cox for down here in So. OC and it took a couple transfers, but I finally got through to a rep that takes your name and "suggestion" and fills out an electronic form (albeit I cannot verify she really did) of what stations you would like Cox to add to their lineup.

She was quite nice actually. she even said that the best way is for people to have everyone they know call in and suggest what tv stations (HD ones for me: TNT, FSW, FSW2, TBS) you'd like Cox to add.

She did state that as of today there are no plans to add anything in the near future. BUT, if more and more people call in a demand more stations than that is a step in the right direction to getting them.

Took me about 10 mintues total phone time.

Live in the OC?? CALL COX and demand more HD channels!! :D

I've been bugging them a long time, though not in awhile.

Channels we need added!

1. TNT-HD

2. Fox Sports HD

3. HDnet

4. HDnet movies

5. Starz-HD

6. WB-HD

7. UPN-HD

8. Bravo-HD

9. Cinemax-HD

10. TMC-HD


Any more anyone can think of? Our neighbors in FV & HB with Time-Warner have all of these already (except Bravo), I remember 6 months ago when we had more then them! And theirs is cheaper too!

I'm going to see if I can email Lisa again, its been awhile..........

I agree with JETs list above. JET, could you share Lisa email? Or is it more effective to call them over the phone?

Besides fixing the tiling, which is the only bug I have, I want PBS in HD!

Actually, her name is Brenda, been awhile! (sorry Brenda if your reading!)

She's a Rep in San Diego, but she was always my Contact (I was a post-it on her PC cause I was such an HD pest..bugging her before it came out) before and after the rollout..........

SanDiego.Services@cox.com I put Attn Brenda in the Subject....

Recorded Delta Force (guilty pleasure) on HBO the other night at 1am, and looks like the compression issue has been resolved.

Not only was the picture nice and sharp, but for a 2 hour movie, clocked in around 12GB rather than around 50% less. Fingers crossed it stays this way

The email address for Orange county is:

OC.Services@cox.com

might want to send requests there...

This weekend I exercised the 6412 a lot and experienced no HD tiling and no missed recordings.... it's nice to get a taste of what this box can do once the bugs are figured out. Another couple of weeks for the next firmware update.

I've noticed an improvement in HBO-HD picture quality recently, but I also had some minor tiling last night. I had to stop the recording of Desperate Housewives and clear the buffers to get most of the tiling to stop. I also had some more tiling during Las Vegas and CSI:Miami tonight.. Nothing major, but not all of the bugs are gone yet.

I also had the subscription notice come up when my DVR started recording Las Vegas, it looks like everything is recording fine and I'll check the recording tomorrow to make sure.

I haven't had a missed recording in over two weeks. :)

Now we need to work on getting more HD channels. :cool:

Hey moyekj, could you do that test of yours and see what the transfer rate is now? Thanks.

Headend fix definately has improved things visually here in OC, and I couldn't get HD tiling bug to re-appear no matter what I tried - and I tried a lot of stuff tonight. The subscription bug did appear on a couple of occasions when I switched to different HD channels. Motion artifacts were not apparent on most channels I watched with the exception of NBCHD which has always been bad at motion artifacting - that is NBC problem.

These were average bit-rate measurements from 2 min clips of each HD channel:
abchd 13.11Mbps (1280x720p, 60fps)
cbshd 15.22Mbps (1920x1080i, 30fps)
dischd 17.33Mbps (1920x1080i, 30fps)
espnhd 17.48Mbps (1280x720p, 60fps)
foxhd 9.18Mbps (1280x720p, 60fps)
inhd1 14.5Mbps (1920x1080i, 30fps)
inhd2 10.52Mbps (1920x1080i, 30fps)
nbchd 17.19Mbps (1920x1088i, 30fps)

Is anyone seeing problems with Showtime HD (740)? Every 5-10 seconds, the picture freezes and pixelates before continuing. This problem only happens on SHO. It's been like this all night.

The problem is visible on BOTH the 6412 and the 6200, so it is not just a 6412 issue for me.

Originally posted by Rich4av
Is anyone seeing problems with Showtime HD (740)? Every 5-10 seconds, the picture freezes and pixelates before continuing. This problem only happens on SHO. It's been like this all night.

The problem is visible on BOTH the 6412 and the 6200, so it is not just a 6412 issue for me.

Started last night and continuing this morning here too.

rdenichilo, thanks for confirming this. I checked my equipment for 1 hour thinking there wa a problem on my end since I use an AV switcher.

moyekj
Are the bit measurements you posted all from broadcasts of HD programing or ares some of them SC propgrams being breoadcast in HD format complete with side bars?

walford, I did it during primetime, so all except ESPNHD were true 16:9 (no sidebars) and I specifically avoided any commercial breaks so as to not disrupt the bit-rate measures. ESPNHD was Sportscenter and so had some clips with sidebars. Obviously the bit-rates will change depending on the show being broadcast, so I'm not sure the average bit-rates really mean much.

SHO HD looks OK tonight so the problem may have been fixed.

I got a guide hole on Saturday (requiring a power reboot) and a zero-length recording of NBC (704) today...

Anyone experience any strange sounds during the Football games Sunday. On both Fox and later ESPN (Both HD) I'd have the game on while reading a book (one of them Jason Bourne novels..a tad hard to put down) and maybe 3-4 times in all I'd hear a sound like a big "switch" or "breaker" had been thrown. I'd look up and see no difference...but it was wierd.

I have a 6200 box and experience intermittent discolored banding across the top 1/4 of the screen when viewing lower channels through s-video input. I don't get discolor on component viewing, but picture seems sharper and color better through s-video on several lower channels if banding is not present. I don't think it's the s-video cable because the banding goes away if I switch to higher (digital) channels. Thanks in advance for advice.

Originally posted by moyekj
The problem is it's nowhere near $5/month. It's $33/month in addition to analog cable charges:
HD Expanded Tier: $4.95 (If you want ESPN/HD Discovery HD)
HD Converter: $9.95
DVR Service: $4.95
Digital Service: $12.95

That's $33 in addition to analog cable charges:
Cox limited basic: $16.20
Cox expanded service: $25.79

And don't forget the infamous FRANCHISE FEE of $4.87/month

For a grand total of $80/month, and that's with NO PREMIUM PROGRAMMING.

Are all these prices before taxes? So basically you're looking at ~$90/month if you just want basic HD + DVR? Am I reading this right? I was thinking about maybe switching from D* to Cox to get local digital stations but Cox doesn't have WB? So the only local digital that I'd gain would be ABC (once D* can put up FOX)? Is this right?

I'm not bashing Cox (believe me, I'm no lover of D*), just disappointed that it costs so much to be able to get all the local digitals (and even then I wouldn't have WB for Smallville). I live in Aliso Viejo and digital reception is pretty nonexistant.

mebweglarz that's a known problem with the motorola hidef cable boxes. You can swap it out and it might take care of the problem temporarily but it will be back, it's just a matter of time =(

Trust me, I tried 3 times and the techs all told me the same thing. Happy to swap it but it won't work for long. Only happens on the svideo out port that I know of.

Cox definately needs to get the WB and the local pbs station. And more premium hd channels. They started out great but they haven't kept up the momentum. More more more.

Originally posted by baldbull
Are all these prices before taxes? So basically you're looking at ~$90/month if you just want basic HD + DVR? Am I reading this right? I was thinking about maybe switching from D* to Cox to get local digital stations but Cox doesn't have WB? So the only local digital that I'd gain would be ABC (once D* can put up FOX)? Is this right?

I'm not bashing Cox (believe me, I'm no lover of D*), just disappointed that it costs so much to be able to get all the local digitals (and even then I wouldn't have WB for Smallville). I live in Aliso Viejo and digital reception is pretty nonexistant. Franchise Fee covers the taxes, so it's $80/month with no premium programming right now. At least for the network HD channels I believe it would be possible if you had your QAM tuner (some higher end TVs have this built in) and cable-card support that you could tune to the network HD channels without having to subscribe to the digital + HD tiers. You would have to rent the card that fits into the cable card slot from Cox which may run $2-3/month - I believe there is a mandate that all cable companies provide cable card support. However, I am not sure if that really would work or not - I'm sure you wouldn't get much help from Cox in this regard as obviously it's in their interests for you to pay for the extra tiers and rent the box from them.

So theoretically you could get it down to about $75/month if you didn't care about the HD expanded tier? That's not quite as bad, but I'm seeing posts about the DVR charge going to $9.95. But still, not having WB really messes things up. I can't justify $21 more per month just for ABC (even if I did sell my HD Tivo). Why did I have to move to the OTA deprived lands of Aliso Viejo!?!

Tonight's the night! Happy upgrade everyone!

The first thing I'm going to try is FF, then PLAY. It would be nice if it rolls back just a tiny bit for the reaction delay, but we'll see.

This is what we have been told to expect of this upgrade. I'm sure there are other things under the hood we don't know about:
(I'm assuming 9.12 is the "halloween" upgrade version but won't know for sure until after tonight's update)

I'm hoping the guide fixes include true 7-day guide (right now we only get 6 days) and no need to manually page through multiple days in the guide listings to update what is in RAM.

FIXED
=====
* Various guide-related fixes
* HD tiling bug (actually headend fix took care of this problem)
* Negative length recording when recording a program already in progress
* Incorrect video positioning when going from FF to Play
* Playing a zero-length recording can freeze the STB

ENHANCEMENTS
===============
* FF/REW buttons now function as Day+/Day- keys when looking at the guide
* Play/Stop also function as Day+/Day- keys when looking at the guide
* Pressing and holding the front panel POWER button for 5 seconds will force the box to reboot
* Pressing and holding the front panel GUIDE button for 5 seconds will purge all guide data from DRAM and the hard drive, forcing a fresh download
* Various minor enhancements to diagnostics screens
* Support for the future "Phase 2" version of Motorola DCT DVRs

NOT FIXED
==========
* Subscription and 0-minute recording bugs

Thought I would list here all "special" key combinations that I know about for 6412 w/ newest Passport software. If you know of others (or others I forgot about) please let me know so I can update this list:

REBOOTING MACHINE
=================
Hold Power button down for 5 seconds

GUIDE DATA
==========
Hold Guide button down for 5 seconds
NOTE: This will purge guide data from DRAM & hard drive forcing re-download

NOTE: FF/REW and Play/Stop buttons now function as Day+/Day- in guide browser

QUICK SETTINGS HIDDEN PAGE
======================
(A quick way to view available disk space and total time of all recordings and firmware version info)
1. DCT6412 should be on
2. Press Menu (displays Quick Settings menu)
3. Press Down,B,Up,B (within 5 seconds)
4. Use Page- and Page+ to scroll pages
5. Press Exit to dismiss

DIAGNOSTICS PAGE
==============
(View all kinds of info about the box)
1. DCT6412 should be on
2. Power off, Select, Select
d03 = OOB status = oob frequency, snr, agc
d04 = In-band status = tuner1/2 info
d06 = tuner 1/2 channel status
d08 = Code Modules = firmware info
d09 = memory info
d11 = interface status (what's enabled/disabled in box)
d13 = show disk space remaining + hard drive details + partition info
NOTE: This kills any recordings currently recording.

GENERAL SETTINGS PAGE
==================
(Control various aspects of the box including video output format to use - better alternative to User Settings Page)
1. DCT6412 should be on
2. Press Menu (displays Quick Settings menu)
3. Select A - More Settings

USER SETTINGS PAGE
==================
(Can change video output format to use and CC settings)
1. DCT6412 should be on
2. Power off, Menu, Menu

Your last post is a great recap, moyekj. Thanks for all the time and insight you contribute to this forum.

I wish you a smooth and beneficial upgrade.

Don

Thanks Don.

Update happened around 2:42am according to the logs - firmware version is indeed 9.12.

FF/REW buttons do work same as Day+/- in guide browser as advertised.
Guide data is still only 6 days.
Over-correction in skipping back when selecting Play after FF is not much better from my experiments. Personally I wish there was no built-in correction - let me use 10-second skip back if I wish.
Seemed like diagnostics d11 had a little more info about devices. Noticed information about active 10-base T ethernet which I hadn't noticed before - probably just oversight. I'll have to connect ethernet port to router to see if anything wiggles.
Visually didn't notice any other changes

Keep emailing and calling cox and BITCH! We need more stations and there is no excuse. Our neighbors in Fountain Valley/Hunt Beach have TWC and get all that we get plus:

WB-HD
KCET-HD
UPN-HD
TNT-HD
HD-Net
HD-Net Movies


And last I saw their boxes were less money too. My buddy who is a complete techno newb has their HD-PVR and loves it (got a month ago when he got a Plasma and signed up for HD after hearing me talk about the last 2 years), not heard a single issue from him on it.

A year ago Cox was leading in Cable HD, now they are seriously lagging.

Let them know!!!!

Doesn't TWC also get Fox Sports WEST HD? Not a lot of programming but they show about 2 Laker home games per month in HD, as well as the SCSR shows.

Anyway, would love to get more HD channels. COX Arizona has WB & Starz on top of what we have, so it must be a local rights issue or OC is slow slow slow, or OC is saving space for EOD...???

-T

Maybe, just maybe, Cox has been waiting to straighten out all the bugs and resulting complaints that have come about with the DVR product. Not one to defend Cox, I can still understand that they concentrated on not losing existing customers. I, for one, was ready to bail and adding more HD stations would have just exacerbated the problem.

But now, this may be behind us! I agree, the timing is perfect for Cox to add more HD channels to their offerings. And I have a feeling they'll do just that. They're going to have to, to remain competitive.

In the meantime, I'm willing to give them a little slack - after all, they did pull through. And, besides, I was reading in the Times today that TIVO is going to start showing their own commercials when you fast forward over the broadcaster's commercials. Can you believe that? Cox's product might be looking better and better.

Originally posted by baldbull
I live in Aliso Viejo and digital reception is pretty nonexistant.

I'm near the top of the hill in Aliso Viejo below the water towers. Mount Wilson is on the other side of the hill. I have a pair of OTA antennas on my roof and can get all the OTA channels (although UPN is flaky and occasionally ABC, but I can pick up ABC from San Diego just fine).

If you're only looking for locals you might want to consider an OTA solution.

Andy.

Originally posted by AndyS
I'm near the top of the hill in Aliso Viejo below the water towers. Mount Wilson is on the other side of the hill. I have a pair of OTA antennas on my roof and can get all the OTA channels (although UPN is flaky and occasionally ABC, but I can pick up ABC from San Diego just fine).

If you're only looking for locals you might want to consider an OTA solution.

Andy. Andy, could you provide the details of your antennas you used? Rooftop seems out of the question for my association here in Mission Viejo, though, so I figured it's a lost cause - no way it will work from attic. A few weeks ago I tried one of those Radio Shack indoor amplified UHF antennas. Even walking outside and putting it on the roof I was only able to get VHF channels - not a single UHF channel came in, not even the Anaheim stations, so I figure it would be a lost cause. I have a 100 foot hill directly north of me and about 50 feet away and lots of trees in the way southbound towards San Diego. I care mostly about the local HD channels which if nothing else would be a good supplement to the Cox lineup even if only a few would come in OK.

Actually, where did you buy the antennas? I looked for local OTA specialists in the area but didn't come up with anything - professional installers may be able to figure out a solution for me.

There's another thread about OTA in SoCal here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=191672) that has all the details, and I don't want to go too OT on this thread, but here's some info for you:
1. I have two Radio-Shack 15-2160s on my roof but below the centerline.
2. You absolutely need a good preamp - I have a Channel Master CM7775 mast-head preamp.
3. Federal Law prohibits your association from taking any action against you for OTA antennas. See this FCC fact-sheet (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html) for more details.

Feel free to PM me if you want to come over and check out my installation.

Andy.

Thought this may be useful info to post here based on some measurements I have made recently on the different 6412 stream types:


6412 HD STREAM INFO
===================
System Stream Type Transport
Video Standard NTSC
Video Compression MPEG-2
Video Bitrate VBR: Average=*18.29Mbps, Peak=19.2Mpbs
Resolution 1920x1088i
Frame Rate 29.97 fps
Aspect Ratio 16:9 (1920x1080)
Audio Compression Dolby AC-3
Audio Stream 6 channel, 48kHz
Audio Bitrate 384 Kbps
1 hour show size 8,400 MBytes
(18.29+384/1024Mbits/sec)*(60sec/min)*(60min/hr)*(1byte/8bits) = 8,400 MBytes/hr

6412 SD DIGITAL STREAM INFO
===========================
System Stream Type Transport
Video Standard NTSC
Video Compression MPEG-2
Video Bitrate VBR: Average=*3.7Mbps, Peak=15Mbps
Resolution 528x480i
Frame Rate 29.97 fps
Aspect Ratio 4:3
Audio Compression Dolby AC-3
Audio Stream 2 channel, 48kHz
Audio Bitrate 128 Kbps
1 hour show size 1,721 MBytes
(3.7+128/1024Mbits/sec)*(60sec/min)*(60min/hr)*(1byte/8bits) = 1,721 MBytes/hr

6412 SD ENCODED FROM ANALOG STREAM INFO
=======================================
System Stream Type Transport
Video Standard NTSC
Video Compression MPEG-2
Video Bitrate VBR: Average=6.3Mbps, Peak=7.5Mbps
Resolution 720x480i
Frame Rate 29.97 fps
Aspect Ratio 4:3
Audio Compression Dolby AC-3
Audio Stream 2 channel, 48kHz
Audio Bitrate 320 Kbps
1 hour show size 2,981 MBytes
(6.3+320/1024Mbits/sec)*(60sec/min)*(60min/hr)*(1byte/8bits) = 2,981 MBytes/hr

*NOTE: Average bit-rates may vary depending on program + Cox headend

I was going to say the same thing, moyekj. Federal law protects you from any association. They can bugger off.

Thanks very much for the info Andy. I didn't know about that FCC regulation so at least I would have some ammuntion if someone comes knocking.

Originally posted by AndyS
There's another thread about OTA in SoCal here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=191672) that has all the details, and I don't want to go too OT on this thread, but here's some info for you:
1. I have two Radio-Shack 15-2160s on my roof but below the centerline.
2. You absolutely need a good preamp - I have a Channel Master CM7775 mast-head preamp.
3. Federal Law prohibits your association from taking any action against you for OTA antennas. See this FCC fact-sheet (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html) for more details.

Feel free to PM me if you want to come over and check out my installation.

Andy.

Tonight was a complete disaster for my 6412. The OC recorded 5 minutes in then just decided to stop. I actually noticed the recording light go off, so I turned the box on, tuned to Fox HD and hit record - the rest of the show recorded after that. Then it was supposed to record North Shore at 9:00pm which it did, though for some reason that show wasn't broadcast in HD 16:9 tornight. Then it was supposed to record ER at 10:00pm. The guide marked ER red but it didn't show up in the Upcoming Recordings list and sure enough it didn't record - not even a 0-minute recording, just totally skipped it even though I have marked it as record First Run and Repeats - and ER wasn't even a repeat tonight.

Totally unreliable box, and it's not even the subscription/0-minute recording bugs to blame this time... hate to say this, but it seems like the new firmware created more problems than it solved. If I didn't have ReplayTVs as backups for all these missed shows I'd really be mad.

Not sure how much longer I want to be paying for debugging this box... I may feel different in the morning but right now I'm finding it hard to provide constructive feedback.

Ok, I waited long enough (I hope!) and ordered a 6412 today, it's supposed to be UPS delivered Wednesday. I hope I don't end up being a major contributor in here! :D

And I've never had a PVR of any type before, should be interesting.

Moyekj:

PMJI, can you explain what your observations mean to us laypeople and why the number of channels per QAM is important? Should it be a 1:1 ratio or is it sometimes OK to use more channels per QAM? Does this affect the quality of the picture we see at the user-level?

Damon

EDIT: Added new color-coded spreadsheet for easier visualization

Tonight I started mapping out the Cox OC headend. If we can get most channels mapped out in this list this will give a very good picture of the Cox OC headend, especially when combined with bit-rate measurements. This also will be a good indication of how many channels Cox is in position to add over time.

Easiest method to do this I found is tune 1 tuner to an analog channel, other tuner to digital channel. Then going to Diagnostics Page (off,sel,sel) and choosing option d06 (Current Channel Status) it gives the frequency of each tuner (use down arrow to scroll to 2nd tuner page) - since 1 tuner is on analog the other one is the digital channel. d04 tells you what kind of modulation scheme (QAM-256, QAM-64 or analog).

Please help me out by tuning to premium HD channels (SHOW & HBO) if you subscribe to them and post the frequencies. My guess is they will share the ESPN HD & NBC HD QAM channels listed in spreadsheet (579MHz & 585MHz).

Also, if someone can get the numbers for SD digital premium channels, HBO, SHO, STARZ, etc. that would be great - since I don't subscribe I can't get numbers for them.

Attached is zip file of Excel spreadsheet - it's got all non-premiums now and is pretty interesting. 9 SD digital channels crammed into 1 QAM-256 in various places among other noteable things. Most HD channels are crammed in 2 per QAM-256 and in some cases crammed in with SD digital channel.

Originally posted by DWillens666
Moyekj:

PMJI, can you explain what your observations mean to us laypeople and why the number of channels per QAM is important? Should it be a 1:1 ratio or is it sometimes OK to use more channels per QAM? Does this affect the quality of the picture we see at the user-level?

Damon I'm still learning myself, but here's my current understanding. In the cable feed we get from Cox, all carrier channels are all multiplexed together and separated by at least 6MHz in frequency. Analog channels each occupy a full 6MHz carrier channel, but digital (and HiDef) channels are compressed using a different modulation scheme called QAM which allows multiple channels to be carried on the same carrier channel.

QAM = Quadrature Amplitude Modulation
256 => (8 bits/sec)/Hz - i.e. A measure of the bandwidth efficiency

For maximum quality, each digital or Hidef channel would utilize a full carrier channel, but obviously because of limited bandwidth the cable company has to put multiple digital channels per carrier channel. The more digital channels you squeeze into a carrier channel, the smaller the average bit-rate of each will be, and therefore the worse the quality of the picture will be.

Thus, by listing the full list of carrier frequencies and the associated channel lineup mapped to each we can get a very good idea of how Cox OC is allocating bandwidth and how much space they have available for future expansion. This also may give good insight into why some channels look worse than others.

NOTE: I believe currently the max. carrier frequency allowed is 997MHz even though Coax can theoretically support up to 3GHz. Not sure what the frequency limit for cable TV is. Keep in mind Cox has to also support digital telephone and internet over the same coax, so a lot of bandwidth is taken up by those services too.

I still need help from people reading this forum that subscribe to premium channels. I would like to complete the spreadsheet to include those to get a real good picture.

Is this something I can do with my current 6200? I do sub to both HBO & SHO....

If so how? If not, the new box will be here Wed and will take me a bit to learn....

JET, with the 6200 from recollection, you can get to diagnostics as follows:
Power off, select.
I believe their will be a similar set of diagnostics menus, one which should contain tuner information (all I really want is the frequency of each premium channel: SD digital and HD). Thanks very much for the help... if it's not possible with the 6200, then I detailed above how to do it with the 6412 and will gladly give you exact instructions if you need them.
Thanks,
-Kevin

P.S. It's a long shot, but if anyone subscribes to any of the NBA + MLS channels or the foreign language ones (in 400 range) I need numbers for those too.

I just tried that, no luck getting that menu up. I know I've done it before, forget how. (may have been with the previous 5100) The manual is no help.

JET, maybe just wait for your 6412 on Wednesday. I would appreciate if you can post the frequencies when you get a chance.

Anybody here in OC using Voom exclusivley?

I will be moving to Ladera Ranch in a few weeks and was thinking about going all Voom and using their OTA antenna for locals.

Anybody doing this? How is it going?

I'd love to ditch Cox

Well, the box showed a day early, Spent a hour getting it installed (tidy'd up cables a bit, all new setup since I got my new Receiver Friday), fired it up...had picture....hmm lots of "not subscibed"...read flyer..Oh..have to call in and initialize....did it....it sat for two hours with Set - Init message. Finally called in...spent 1/2 hr more with tech. Finally got the guide back, but no pictures. Guide was fine, but nothing could get me video. Finally gave up, re-setup the 6200.

I'm on stand by for a tech. Bah! Why is it everytime I upgrade service it takes Cox several tries to get it right!!!!

Try again soon with probably a second and then third box if history holds true!

It has been a while, but I had another 0 minute recording last night. Anyone else still getting these? Mine was last nights Fear Factor.

Much improved picture quality though, especially on HBO-HD. Even an action movie like Once Upon A Time In Mexico didn't have any major pixelation.

Anyone know if the S-Video Port on the 6412 is enabled? Been using composite with my 6200 for the non-HD channels, would like to upgrade that to S-Video if the port works. Never seemed to work on my 6200 when I tried it last.....

JET, I take S-video out into my ReplayTV - works fine. Note that you also get downconverted HD through composite/S-video outputs - the only problem is it's not anamorphic widescreen so on a 16:9 display you get black bars on top/bottom/sides for HD programs, and even worse for 4:3 programs on HD channels.

moyekj,

Attached is the updated zip file of Excel spreadsheet that includes most of the SD digital premium channels. Pretty amazing that they can cram up to 12 SD digital channels into 1 QAM-256 channel (639 MHz).

Chiifac, thanks very much for the update! Wow, SD HBO and MAX are really crammed in there like you said - no wonder we hear about artifacting on those channels all the time.

There is still the NBA and MLB channels plus the international ones in the 400 range - I don't know if we will ever get those mapped out though since it's pretty unlikely we have a forum reader subscribed to those. I'll have to add the 400 range channels to the spreadsheet as question marks as a reminder.

Originally posted by moyekj
JET, I take S-video out into my ReplayTV - works fine. Note that you also get downconverted HD through composite/S-video outputs - the only problem is it's not anamorphic widescreen so on a 16:9 display you get black bars on top/bottom/sides for HD programs, and even worse for 4:3 programs on HD channels.

Thanks!

Trying to get my new reciever to upconvert the S-Vid to Component (Pioneer 1014, supposed too), so I don't have to switch AV modes on the TV any longer .(though I imagine I still will for the Analog stations, already have all the cable setup for that when I get a working 6412)

Let me know when someone gets a fully "working" 6412. :)

I have had a standard motorola HDTV box for a while. I was wondering how you get to any menu's to change settings.

I have an issue right now with my new TV (samsung DLP). I run my component cables from the Motorola to my Pre/pro which has component switching and run the component cable from that to the TV. My samsung has 2 different component inputs, one for 480i, 480p and one for 480p, 720, 1080. When I hook it up to the 480, 720, 1080 I get my HD channels but it won't show any SD channels.

Anybody have some ideas? SD channels will work with s-video to the TV but then I have to switch inputs anytime I want to watch a non hd channel.

blkwrxwgn, if your TV has DVI/HDMI I would use that - you should be able to get SD & HD that way without switching inputs to the TV.

Also, you can set 4:3 override on the Motorola box to 480p. That should work to display SD via your component connection. Getting to settings varies by box, but try the following:
Make sure unit is powered on
Power off unit and quickly choose "menu"
This should bring up options with 4:3 override setting being one of them.

But my box doesn't have DVI. Looks like I need a new box then huh?

That's what I've been looking for!!!

Thank you sooo much. I'll give that a try later today. I had a feeling that was the problem but couldn't figure out how to get into the setup menu.

That worked myekj!

Thank you very much. Now I can keep it on the component input all the time.

Does COX now have a HD box that is DVI out?

The Motorola 6200 and the 6412 boxes definately do and they are active and working (I've used DVI with both). In fact, these boxes also have firewire outputs that are working too.

Hi All,

I am back from several long business trips and have been giving the 6412 a full work out. It seems that Cox and VideooGuy have fixed most of the most nagging issues with this box. I was an extreme skeptic as to the processing power of this box. Thanks VideoooGuy for your hard work. HOWEVER, I have noticed on ABC and FOX HD football that nearly every 30-40 sec there is an audio dropout followed by a brief macro-blocking of a portion of the broadcast (usually a player). CBS and ESPN have not displayed this issue on their HD football.

Has anyone else noticed this?

niesman

I've noticed some brief HD tiling-like issues once in a while but I don't recall audio dropouts or a continuous pattern of dropouts like you described - and I watched 3 quarters of the ABC match last night. I'll have to pay more close attention to see if I see any pattern. (I just use 2 TV speakers for audio mind you most of the time so perhaps audio problems are not noticeable with that setup).

Occasional macro-blocking and audio drops but overall quite mild and bearable to deal with for now.

It's not very encouraging that VideooooGuy seems to have dissapeared - our only meaningful contact with Cox corporate engineering.

Haven't had any mystery missed recordings in a couple of days now so feeling pretty happy overall about the box right now, though I still cringe at the ~ $80/month bill and all those SD digital channels I never bother with but have to subscribe to just to get the HD channels.

Spoke too soon about no missed recordings:

I have a series record set for "Billionaire: Branson's Quest for the Best" (repeats & first run) and yet it never showed up in the "Scheduled Recordings" list or was highlighted in red in the guide, and sure enough did not record tonight. Anyone else recording this show successfully or not using series record? I have a feeling perhaps the colon or apostrophe may be causing problems for the Passport scheduler.

NOTE: I triple-checked the characters in the series record setup against the show title shown in the guide tonight and they match exactly, so no good reason for it to be missed.

moyekj,
Just_Cruising

Thank you for your observations. This may be a coincedence, but after looking at moyekj's head-end spread sheet, I noticed that FOXHD and ABCHD(the two stations that I notice the most audio/macro blocking during live HD football) are grouped together with two SD digital stations. No other QAM frequency has more than two HD and a single SD digital station grouped together. Perhaps 117MHz is being stretched to the max.

any thoughts?

QAM-256 => 38 Mbps total bit-rate available.
QAM-64 => 24 Mbps total bit-rate available.

FOXHD and ABCHD are both 720p (instead of 1080i) which actually requires less average bit-rate compared to 1080i which probably explains why there are 2 SD digital stations crammed in along with them. For 1080i the peak bit-rate is 19.2 Mbps with some averages I have measured around 14-18 Mbps or so, so not much more room for more than 2 1080i channels per carrier. 720p bit-rates are generally lower than 1080i as the mpeg encoding tends to use more P-frames than I-frames and I have measured them in the 10-12 Mbps range. SD digital takes on average 3-5 Mbps so you can see how it's feasible to cram things in the way Cox OC has done.

Funny thing is, I generally get better picture quality (and less macro-blocking) on the 720p (like ABC-HD, FOX-HD, ESPN-HD) channels compared to the 1080i ones (like NBC-HD, CBS-HD), so I'm thinking it has to be related to one's display as well. My display is a 30" LCD WXGA (1280 x 768p).

Incidently, the 12 HBO and Cinemax feeds that are crammed into 1 QAM-256 (639MHz) sort of makes sense. Each of the individual satellite feeds of these channels average 2.5-3 Mbps, so with 38 Mbps available it's not unreasonable to put 12-13 on 1 QAM-256 carrier (38/3 = 12.67) - you hardly sacrifice bit-rates on any of the feeds by doing so.

:mad:

Cox just left here, new box..same problem as the UPS'd one. After talking with HQ a bit, they think it's on their end and will clear up later tonight. Supposed to be affecting the Init of the DVR's in MV & RSM, he ran into same thing this morning as well on a call. We'll see, for now I have just analog plugged into the tv from the wall so we have something, while I check the box every now and then. The tech was cool, happy to deal with someone that knew something.

Lucky I watch a lot of those SD-DTV channels, I had them before and still watch them all the time, tons of cool movies and stuff IMO. I watch on a well calibrated 55" Philips HD-RPTV. Finally got my new receiver (Pioneer 1014Tx-replaced free HTB Philps) and now I can finally hear Digital on the Cable, not just DVD's as before. Watched Master & Commander in HD over the weekend and what a treat! Had the whole house shaking! Loved every second! (All JBL studios and an SVS 20-39!)

Hopefully I'll be in DVR land later tonight, otherwise I call them early tomorrow!

I got my new 4-port Electroline amp/splitter yesterday - I was hoping for a miracle as these things are highly touted, but no visible difference from my previous amp/splits and in fact now in the 6412 diagnostics on some digital channels I am getting Signal/Noise ratios below 33.0dB (classified as "Fair" instead of "Good') and a few correctable errors based on 5-second samples. This makes me think the Electroline is amplifying noise more than signal (perhaps I am now over-amplifying). Tonight I'll try running a coax cable direct from house cable drop to the 6412 with no amplification/splits as a comparison as that should be the best I could hope for. Short of that perhaps new coax cable is in order, but the cables I'm using now are fairly new.

Also, in diagnostics I noticed that Tuner 1 is consistently higher Signal/Noise ratio than Tuner 2 no matter what digital channels I tune to on either tuner which I found pretty mysterious. Perhaps it's related to how the internal RF split (to the 2 separate tuners) in the 6412 is done?

Well, I finally got mine up and running tonight. Don't know if it was them or me, I decided to try (after trying the Phone Init twice) bypassing my Electroline thinking maybe somehow it was hurting the 2-way communication (I don't have the newest Dual-Pass models needed for Cable modems) so up the attic I went, when I came down it was working...I went back up and reconnected the line to the amp....and still works. Hmmm. Who knows.

No time to play with it yet (bathroom plumbing problem!) but over the next few days I'll try to get a handle on it...never had a Tivo before. Lot to learn....

When I phoned in to cancel a Tech for tomorrow, I turned the Phone tech on to here....She (Amber I think..) is in San Diego...new SA 8200 box she said, needs help getting it going! :D

Also, put in yet another plug for more HD channels!!!!!!!

Also, the Analog is not as bad as I'd feared. Running it from the Composite for now, got a new S-Vid cable to hook up tomorrow. But so far not seeing a real need to use the bypass I made.

Well I found tonight that the Signal/Noise and AGC readings are virtually identical with the amp + 4-way split versus a direct coax line from drop to 6412, and picture quality shows no difference, so I guess that means the Electroline is doing it's job and not adding any noise - it's just the drop from Cox that is not very clean to begin with so there's nothing much I can do about that short of harrassing them to come out and then having them tell me their signal is fine.

1 more note on improving picture quality. Today I replaced the existing Cox-installed standard RG-59 cable with new RG-6 cable and that improved things more than the Electroline amp. I'm pretty happy with picture quality now - the analog encoding of the 6412 is still pretty grainy, but analog channels through ReplayTV now look very nice - as good as it gets I think.

NOTE: RG-6 cable has about half the loss of RG-59 and even better at higher frequencies, and it looks like it helps reduce noise in the picture (for analog channels of course).

moyekj,
Another way I improved my PQ is placing all of my splitters with the monster 2G (gold) splitters. I notice a difference there. I also notice a small difference when I got a monster “power clean” (stage 2) surge protector. I think you should try it.

NAH1, thanks for the tips. I wouldn't have expected the 2GHz splitters to make a difference compared to 1GHz splitter since the max carrier frequency we are dealing with is around 800MHz or so for a cable co. system - but perhaps the quality of materials on the monster splitter is better than the "standard" 1GHz splitter. All my splitting/amplification is handled by a single 8-way Electroline amp/splitter now which is supposed to be top quality so I will just leave it as is. I also replaced RG-59 with RG-6 cables for the TVs where PQ is critical and as I mentioned that did improve picture quality a little for analog channels. I installed 75-ohm terminating resistors on 2 unused ports of the Electroline as recommended in their manual but didn't notice any change by doing so (I didn't have noticeable reflection problems before installing the resistors). I'm pretty happy with picture quality now (when bypassing the 6412 analog encoders).

BTW, my 6 used connections are: 4 ReplayTVs, 1 6412, 1 cable modem.

Was wondering if some of you could check Diagnostics (Menu, Down, B, Up, B) on their box.

I get nightly errors such as:

(Page 4/16)
CFS 12/3 5:56:26a 2 12091200.jpg Failed
CFS 12/3 5:56:26a 2 12100012.jpg Failed
CFS 12/3 5:56:26a 2 12091200.str Failed
CFS 12/3 5:56:26a 2 12100012.str Failed

Several other such failures - pretty much a set of failures for every day the box downloads data.

Anyone else getting such failures with their box?

Is anyone having any trouble with ESPNHD? For the past few days, I've had picture pixelation every time I selected this channel.

Haven't tuned into ESPNHD for a while, but last night FOXHD was just horrible. It looked like the HD tiling bug was back except there were no problems on the other network HD channels such as ABCHD, so I assume the problem was with the OTA transmission itself. Weather has been pretty lousy lately so perhaps that explains it.

Interesting that lately the only complaints have been the 720p channels - ESPNHD, ABCHD, FOXHD. Perhaps the issues are related to the Cox OC headend.

As much as we complain about picture quality on analog channels, at least they are very reilable - these digital + HD channels are constantly having trouble.

I think the pixelation problem not relate to the OTA transmission. Sometime when I watched the NCAA football on channel 2 thru COX, I get this problem then I switched to OTA, there is no problem at all. That why I must keep the OTA box as the back up, but ESPNHD only available thru COX.

Tonight "Lost" failed to record on ABC HD. An earlier scheduled recording worked just fine (on an SD channel). I checked right before 9:00pm and "Lost" was in the Recording Schedule and was also in red in the guide, yet no recording. I tuned to ABC HD via the guide and no problems tuning (no subscription bug). I had no recordings on the box, so space was not an issue. These darn "Mystery Missed Recordings" are VERY frustrating.

It's been a long time since I've posted, first a thanks to all with the great input. The headend mapping spreadsheet is great information. I don't get premiums, so I'm afraid I can add anything to that right now.

An update on the issues I still have with the 6412:

New Software has corrected most of the major problems, most notably tiling.

I still get "Subscription Channel" messages and more importantly, the resulting 0-length recordings. This is simply unacceptable and has GOT to get fixed. Missed the first ten minutes of ER last night due to this bug. While on a recent vacation, we missed several shows due to this and had to resort to the recordings that the trusty old Tivo made.

In addition to the 0-length recording, the box also just plain failed to record Survivor last night, which is set up as a season pass. Fortunatly, I still have Tivo picking that up with a season pass(since it's not HD anyway).

Bottom line on recordings: This box cannot be trusted to reliably get scheduled recordings when you are not there to babysit.

Guide window has GOT to be increased to include at least a full week. We went on a week long vacation recently, so Saturday morning before we left I tried to set up all of our shows. Turned out there was no way to schedule Enterprise which airs on Friday night. Once again Tivo to the rescue.

Finally, we REALLY need some additional channels. I'm sick of watching Smallville in SD when I know so many people who get it in HD.

Slightly off-topic:
Despite these issues, I did recently recommend this box to a buddy who has never had a PVR and needed to decide between the Cox solution or buying a Tivo for his SDTV. As a HUGE Tivo fan, I felt guilty, but it was a better choice for him.
I recommended it over Tivo based on the following:

-He is already a Cox digital customer with a digital set-top box.

-He has no HDTV, so most of our issues will not affect him(like subscription channel).

-Tivo costs $200 up front($99 after rebate) to buy and $12.95 a month, Cox is simply $5 a month over what he's already paying with no upfront cost.

-He not a tech geek, so the single box tuner/pvr solution is simpler to wire and use. - Just pop out the old motorola and pop-in the new one same cabling.

-He has never had Tivo or any other PVR, so he has not been spoiled by the many things that are better about Tivo. To him it will simply kick-but compared to his only other experience... the VCR.(yikes!)

-If he changes his mind later and wants to get a Tivo, he's out nothing except the $5 a month for however long he used it.

I've noticed several posts about problems with FOX & ABC.

Some months back I also had a real problem with pixellation & audio dropouts which were occuring only on FOX & to a lesser extent ABC.

This was before the 6412 came out and was not related to any of the bugs specific to that box. The rest of my HD channels and all of my SD channels looked great. It would occur most of the time, and when it was happening, I would get periods of OK picture with pixellation at random places on the screen and audio dropouts every 10-20 seconds.

I had figured it was a problem with my original 5100 box or poor signal strength, so I called Cox to come out and look at it. They measured signal strength & found that it was fine. The tech then clipped and reterminated all the F-connectors at the outside box, splitters etc. with new connectors. This didn't change the measured signal strength, but did correct the problem.

The tech explained that the carrier frequency used for FOX & ABC was in a range that was extremly sensitive to interference & noise, specifically from FM frequencies and that any break in the cable sheilding would allow this interference into the signal. Since breaks in sheilding most often occure at the cable ends as the cable is cut & connectors are crimped on, replacing these fixed the problem.

This seems to coordinate with the head-end mapping that has been done and the fact that Fox & ABC share the same frequency. Maybe some of you who know more about broadcast signals & specific frequencies can comment as well.

Don't know if this is the issue some of you are seeing, but it's something to look at.

Cheers,
Ray

Tiresius, the good news is that VideooooGuy has stated in other thread that a fix for the Subscription/0-min recording bug has been developed by Pioneer. They also fixed a bug I never personally experienced - rogue recordings that go way past their alloted time. Bad news is we have no idea when the fixes for those will be released. Also, some of the other bugs I summarized in the other thread cannot be easily reproduced and thus fixed, such as the "Mystery Missed Recordings" (not related to subscription/0-min bug).

For Guide I still only get 6 days also and I don't think that will ever be increased using Passport software. I think I read that the 6412/Iguide solution uses 14 days though, so that implies the hardware should be capable of handling 14 days of data so perhaps there is some hope for the Passport solution.

Hi all,
I searched the forum and could not find any info. I would like to know if cox OC has unscrambled QAM HD Channels. I am in the market for HD TV and want to know if I sould get the Sanyo 30" WS with tuner or other TV. I know that SD cox has unscrambled HD but not sure about OC.

Thanks in advance,
ZX

ZX6Rman, my guess is it would be scrambled and you would have to use a cable-card capable TV/tuner in order to unscramble. Not sure of Cox OC supports cable-card and if so how much the monthly rental fee is. I would say you need to give them a call and find out. If you learn anything please post back here as I would be interested in knowing about other options for tuning HD channels - I may be in the market for another HDTV soon but don't really want to rent another HD box from Cox.

I called and asked about unscrambled HD QAM and I was transferred 4 times because no one knew the answer. I had to go and could not wait on the line for an answer. I was hoping to get an answer from guys in this forum that tested it with their TVs. I will try again and will post if I will have an answer from Cox.
I can tell you that I am thinking about moving to Dish and leave cox as TV and ISP.

Talking to Michael in OC tech support he says that at least the Network HD channels should be able to be tuned with built-in QAM TV tuner since those are un-encrypted. He says the INHD1/2, DISCHD, and ESPNHD channels and the SD digital channels would require at minimum cable card rental ($2-$3/month) if your TV also has cable card support.

He seemed to imply that just subscribing to basic service would be all you need to be able to tune your TV with built-in QAM tuner to the network HD channels. If anyone here has a TV with built-in HD (QAM) tuner it would be great if that could be confirmed. Would make a great second HDTV option if that is the case.

moyekj,

Works PM'd me with this info: "The only HDTV channels that are currently unscrambled in Orange County are CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX. There are a few unscrambled standard definition channels but mostly promotional channels."
I guess it is confirmed. I will still need the STB for speed-TV (318) but it is good to know that there are 4 HD out of 7 or that we can watch with Built-it tuners.

Thanks
ZX

The hardest part is going to be convincing the "significant other" that we need another HDTV in the house - the Sharp Aquos (G-series) line of LCD HDTVs are astounding (and all have built in cable card + QAM tuner) so would work great.

moyekj -
Please check your P.M.

moyekj -
And another P.M. - if you please, when you get the chance.

Thanks

Originally posted by moyekj
They also fixed a bug I never personally experienced - rogue recordings that go way past their alloted time.



I got that one once, I recorded a two hour movie and it ended up recording 8 hours of Hi-Def. Needless to say, this wiped out all of my other programs that were on the hard drive. I think that it only stopped because I had a couple of shows that are set to only be deleted manually.

It will be nice to never have that happen again. And make sure if you really want to watch something, make it a manual delete program.

OK, I had my 6412 up and running a good 3 weeks now. So far so good, about 95% reliablity I guess. In those three weeks, I've had it twice reboot itself (not when recording), twice Zero Record, and once or twice not record a Series I had selected. (but does now)

I use it for spot and future recordings in SD and HD, and have it setup for three different series recordings right now and they seem to work fine. More when some of my fav's come up next month. (24 and Alias)

Have to say I'm very jazzed with it. The problems have been minimal, and the features sweet. I do miss the search function of the old software. (looking for re-runs of a current show was a lot easier) but it sure is fun grabbing all them shows! :D

Now if Cox would please get off their proverbial butt and get us those missing 13+ HD channels!

My wife has given the go-ahead to upgrade to HDTV service. I've been reading over this thread, and I'm no closer to making a decision about whether to keep Cox (I already have digital cable) or switch to satellite (DirectTV).

I'm not as concerned with cost as I am with quality, both picture and programming. For those of you out there who have one or both, what's your opinion?

Thanks in advance.

Not had Sat, but Cable has bandwidth all over current Sat technology. That's means room for more HD. I was told (don't know how true) the other day on the phone we'll soon get quite a few new channels over the current 10. Time will tell....keep bugging Cox guys!

well, figured it was time to get the DVR as most of you seem to think bugs are out of it.
I have 3 TiVo's and didn't want the DVR until you could get the equivalent of season passes (which you apparently now can)

Ordered box, swapped out tonight, stupid SETUP-INIT flashes forever and tech support are unable to communicate with it. What a PITA !

Will have to wait until next Tuesday for a tech to come and troubleshoot.

Anyone have any tricks to maybe get it working sooner ?

I had techs out, they couldn't fix it. Said it was on their end and would fix itself which of course it did not. I then kept re-doing the call-init. That finally did it for me.....been fine ever since.

Originally posted by ZX6Rman
moyekj,

Works PM'd me with this info: "The only HDTV channels that are currently unscrambled in Orange County are CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX. There are a few unscrambled standard definition channels but mostly promotional channels."
I guess it is confirmed. I will still need the STB for speed-TV (318) but it is good to know that there are 4 HD out of 7 or that we can watch with Built-it tuners.

Thanks
ZX

I can pick up the unscrambled channels via my new Sony KDF-55WF655 but I dont know how to tune in to fox. I get CBSHD, NBCHD and ABCHD just fine. All the other HD channels are their normal channel numbers with a ".1" added to the end of it. When I tune in to 11.1 it says "KTTVHD" for the channel ID it downloads but there's no signal coming through. It looks like that's where it's supposed to be but the signal isnt there. Is there another channel I have to tune in to get Fox HD?

Rob

KTTVHD was dark for a while during the GB/Minn football game - the recording I had went dark at some point, so maybe you tried it during this blackout phase? If 11.1 doesn't work I wonder if you can tune to 711 instead? The HD network channels on 6412 are 700 + regular channel #, i.e. 702=CBSHD, 704=NBCHD, etc.

Do you have a CableCard? If not you would probably need CableCard in order to tune into 700s.

I have a small problem. I have cox HD DVR (motorola) I don't know the model #. I connected it to my Vizio plasma PD42HDe via DVI Cable and the HD is great. The SD on the other hand.... not that good.
I connected an S-Video cable from the DVR to the TV and the SD is much better than over the DVI.
The problem is that I cannot get the "info" when I press the info button on the remote. I was wondering if someone knows why it is not working. Also I cannot just to channel only use +/- to move around.

Please help..... if you can. I will try to call Cox tomorrow when I will have time.

Thanks in advance,
ZX

ZX,

I believe that if you set your STB to output 480i with SD source (it is called 4:3 OVERRIDE in the USER SETTING screen), you would be able to see the program info with S-Video or Composite output. To bring up the USER SETTING screen, turn off the STB and within a second or two, press the 'MENU' key on your remote. To exit and save your setting, press POWER or MENU key.

Cox swapped out faulty 6212 box yesterday and it is now working. Will test out tonight on Lost, West Wing etc.

BTW, which HD channels should we be bugging Cox about adding ?

WB/UPN-HD
KCET-HD
TNT-HD
Bravo-HD

Originally posted by chiifac
ZX,

I believe that if you set your STB to output 480i with SD source (it is called 4:3 OVERRIDE in the USER SETTING screen), you would be able to see the program info with S-Video or Composite output. To bring up the USER SETTING screen, turn off the STB and within a second or two, press the 'MENU' key on your remote. To exit and save your setting, press POWER or MENU key.

Chiifac,
I did that and it does show the info on the S-video input but only on the SD channels. So if I by mistake go to HD channel when I am on S-Video I cannon see the info again. I have to switch to DVI or Component to see it.
But the better PQ on SD via S-Video is worth it.

Thanks for your help.
BTW, you can get to the menu by "Settings", "A" = More Settings and "output formats"

Originally posted by ukaussi
Cox swapped out faulty 6212 box yesterday and it is now working. Will test out tonight on Lost, West Wing etc.

BTW, which HD channels should we be bugging Cox about adding ?

WB/UPN-HD
KCET-HD
TNT-HD
Bravo-HD

All of those and more... You can't get enough of HD. It is awesome.

We need:

WB-HD
KCET-HD
UPN-HD
TNT-HD
HD-Net
HD-Net Movies
Starz-HD
Bravo-HD
Fox Sports West-HD (Lakers, etc)
NBA-HD


Theres a few more out there, but thats the main list as of now. TWC has most of them. (and have for months)

Originally posted by JETninja
We need:

WB-HD
KCET-HD
UPN-HD
TNT-HD
HD-Net
HD-Net Movies
Starz-HD
Bravo-HD
Fox Sports West-HD (Lakers, etc)
NBA-HD


Theres a few more out there, but thats the main list as of now. TWC has most of them. (and have for months)

Thanks

Sent them an email requesting the above and asking "WHEN !?"

I too submitted a request for the HD channels mentioned above. Below is the "canned" response from Cox I got. Sounds like the more people that submit requests the better chance we have of something actually happening, so if you haven't already please send an email to Cox OC: OC.Services@cox.com


Thank you for your inquiry. Your request for WB in HD, KCET in HD, UPN
in HD, TNT in HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Starz in HD, Bravo in HD, Fox
Sports West in HD, and NBA TV in HD has been submitted to our Marketing
department. Our Marketing department keeps track of all channels
requested by our customers, we use that list in our consideration for
adding new channels, usually in the fall each year.

Your voice matters and does play a part in our decision making. We
encourage you to mention this to others who share an interest in the
same channels. They can either email or call us and we will forward
their requests to our Marketing department. Of course this will not
guarantee the channel will be added, as there are many considerations,
but your feedback is very important to us.

Because of contract negotiations, no information is given to us until we
have a firm date for channels to be added, which is normally about 2
weeks in advance of the change. I have forwarded your email to our
product support team, and if I find out any more information on any
upcoming line up changes I will send you a follow up email.

We hope that we have been able to provide you with the information you
requested. If we have not, or if we can be of any additional service to
you, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Sincerely,

Brad
Cox Communications - Video/Telephony Tech Support
Online Support Team

I've finally gotten my wife to understand why we needed a 50'' plasma HDTV, the joy! Now I'm faced with learning all this new stuff. Went with the 50'' Pio PDP-5004C that Costco is running a great price on... upgrading my DVD as we speak. Now I need HDTV cable (cox) instead of my regular digital cable. Looks like it's 10/month for the STB and 50 install. Also adding ESPN and Disc tier. Lastly, I want to move my tivo in the bedroom and do DVR through Cox. Any advice on pros/cons or general advice sure would make this new journey easier. Making my way through the pages of this thread as I type.

Welcome NewPlasmaPapa. You will still want to use your Tivo for all SD recordings as you will find the 6412 picture quality is terrible on analog channels, and lack of even a 30-sec skip and other features compared to your Tivo. I dedicate my 6412 exclusively for HD recordings and use my 4 ReplayTVs for all SD recordings (and as backups for 6412 recordings as the unit still has some bugs where it misses recordings). Be sure to checkout this thread for all the gory details on bugs and many other topics (the last 20 pages are so should be enough and more relevant to the current firmware):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=414680

hey all,

our home won't be built until august so that gives us time. so what is south orange county's preference for HD content? seems like there is limitation from cox as far as HD goes. was thinking of leaning more towards voom or directv or dish. seems as if ladera ranch is strongly promoting cox cable. any suggestions are greatly appreciated! thank you!

Cox haven't add any new HD channel for a long time. I'm thinking about to switch to Voom.

voom is out of the question since they have yet to deliver their HD-DVR. DirecTV and Dish don't even have as much HD content as Cox last I checked, and HD network channels via satellite are only supported via OTA antenna (not the dish) which may not even be possible depending exactly where you live. DirecTV with 3 new satellites going up is probably in a good position to add non-OTA HD locals in a year or so, but meanwhile seems like Cox is the best bet for the short term.

Originally posted by dvx24p
hey all,

our home won't be built until august so that gives us time. so what is south orange county's preference for HD content? seems like there is limitation from cox as far as HD goes. was thinking of leaning more towards voom or directv or dish. seems as if ladera ranch is strongly promoting cox cable. any suggestions are greatly appreciated! thank you!

I also live in Ladera and have Cox. Have considered VOOM but found out they don't broadcast any local channels (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) in HD which is where I watch most of my shows and there is practically no way you will get an OTA signal in LR as it is a "basin" (hence why cellphone signals were so bad until recently)

Cox's line-up appears better once you have the DVR as you can record shows that are on any time.
Cox REALLY needs to add Fox Sports HD (even though not a HUGE sports fan) as the SD FSW picture s#cks so can't watch soccer etc.

Voom may look more attractive once they have there DVR AND local channels.

hey thanks for your input guys! looks like maybe cox will be the safe bet. i just like the idea of having many hd channels which voom provides. i wasn't aware of the problems receiving locals. in 7 months, i should get a better idea what direction voom is going(or not going).

Here is a weird anomoly, my 6412 is connected via optical digital to the amp and when watching recorded shows there is no sound when the ads come on :D ....nice

I recently got the LG 3510A OTA/QAM box here in Orange County, CA. In the minimal usage with a diplexed and undiplexed signal (CATV and Sat) I have noticed that,

1) OTA signal reception is much worse than my Dish Network 811 HDTV receiver with a Silver Sensor Indoors.
2) I can get pretty reliable local NBC-DT ( and CBS-DT through Cox clear QAM
3) ABC-DT (KABC) clear QAM breaks after every 2-5 seconds
4) FOX-DT (KTTV) clear QAM is non-existant (cannot find it)

Do you guys have any comments about (1) to (4) on how to improve the situation .

Would a LG 4200A box give me better results for any of the above (1) to (4).

Thanks.

Ok, I've been having an on-going email conversation with a Nicolle at Cox SD per the email address listed above. (Cox eCare Orange County OC.Services@cox.com )

Fist let me share an updated channel request list I made and sent her:

Locals and Regular providers:
WB-HD
KCET-HD
UPN-HD
TNT-HD
HD-NET
HD-NET MOVIES
Universal-HD
BRAVO-HD
ESPN2-HD
FOX SPORTS WEST-HD
NBA-HD
NFL-HD

PPV-HD
EOD-HD

Premium Movie Channels:
CMax-HD (E & W)*
StrZ-HD (E & W)*
TMC-HD
Encore-HD

Note, Cox has a few of these* already in some markets.

Reference current US DBS & Cable Providers HD Channel Lineups: www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=419472

Soon coming to the HD party:

ESPN2-HD (announced and went live 1/5)
Lifestyle Channel-HD (www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=481992) (late '05)


After we went a few rounds (her first was a canned "these take long negotiations" reply, to which I informed her I've been talking to them since 6 months before they turned HD on, and it's way past normal negotiations, specially since our neighbors have way out paced us more then 6 months ago!) her last one was quite apologetic (not needed) and she passed my request on.


Thank you for your reply.

I just finished filling out the tracking information. We do gather all
this information together. We track how many people have requested this
certain channel or channels. What area of town is requesting this. If
they find a large # of people on that area requesting the same thing,
this is when we look at adding it to our line-up.

Cox is definitely aware people are asking for more HD Channels. You are
not the first nor 2nd or 3rd person I have sent this same request in
for. In our meetings they do mention that we will be adding more
channels. We are just do not give specifics in terms of when, and what
channels.

I do not have an HD Tv yet, but hopefully in the nearest future. I wish
you a wonderful day and a great weekend. If we can assist any further,
just let us know.

Sincerely,
SD CCC
Customer Care
Nicolle
Cox Communications - Customer Care
Online Support Team




So people...start emailing (or calling) them (tell your cable neighbors!) and include my latest list above. Lets get them moving! You can call at:

please contact us directly at 888-222-7743 between 8am and 8pm
Monday-Friday and between 8am and 5pm on Saturdays.


ps, you know....not one tech I've worked with has HD.....I bet they'd be more sympathetic if they actually felt what we do! Cox, help your employees out! :D

Cox Tech just left. News is a new 6412 box out in spring with new BIOS chips which will allow external storage, and a software update.

Given the last rollout of 6412 software, lets keep our fingers crossed.

Now if we could get some more HD channels . . .

Here in Orange County I have conclusive evidence that the clock is 20 seconds behind or so. For back-to-back recordings (where the unit doesn't pad recordings automatically) I noticed it always started a little late. So I compared the time to my ReplayTV hooked up to the same TV which always starts on time and found the 6412 clock is 20 seconds behind or so and has been for at least a week. I felt for sure the 6412 would sync it's clock to the headend but either it's not or the clock it's syncing to is way off. Anyone else notice this?

Hello,
Forgive me if this has been asked before. I currently have Directv with an SD Tivo and an HD non-DVR receiver. I am thinking of making the switch back to Cox and was curious if any of you have done this as well? I would like to go with their HD-DVR box. How do you like the Cox HD-DVR compared to Tivo? Is it a big step down? How is the HD picture quality compared to D*? Thanks for your time and I appreciate any response on this!
-Tony

If someone have success to use the Ilink port on the 6200 box connect to a computer, please let me know. Thanks

Originally posted by qpham
If someone have success to use the Ilink port on the 6200 box connect to a computer, please let me know. Thanks Not sure what you mean by "Ilink" port, but if you mean the 1394/firewire port then consult the last link in my signature below for details on how to do it (it's the same for the 6200 box as the 6208/6412 boxes).

Thank moyekj, yes I mean the 1394/firewire port.

I've been debating, but have decided on the following inputs:

HD STB/DVR (6412) connected via component input
DVD player connected via DVI to HDMI input
VCR connected via S-video input
Playstation 2 connected via S-video input into VCR and into S-video input

Couple of questions... should I be trying to use the RGB input for one of these? Also, should I replace the component cables that come with my Motorola 6412 HD STB/DVR for higher quality ones? Is there a prefered brand for DVI to HDMI or component cables (i.e. monster or something)? Any answers are appreciated.

NewPlasmaPapa, sounds like a good plan. Cable Co. component cables are good enough - I didn't see any difference using theirs or mine (I use them for DVD player and DVI->DVI for 6412->HDTV connection). For DVI->HDMI cable you should look into buying it online if you are looking for a cheap deal. Best Buy and company rip you off by only selling overpriced Monster cables for around $50-$80. DVI->HDMI is an all digital connection so all the Monster advertising is just B.S. to try and justify their high prices. Search online to get thousands of hits at much cheaper prices.

I just got off the phone with Customer Support since I was cancelling HD Expanded Tier.
$4.95/month for only Discovery HD (which I never watch) and ESPN HD is a little much especially since football season is over. In any case I gave the usual complaint about lack of HD channels and she mentioned 742 - Universal HD was recently (1 month ago) added in San Diego and will soon be available in Orange County. I also noticed San Diego has PBS HD which we don't have but she didn't mention anything about that.

If that's true, it's a step in the right direction, but still really lame. Hopefully it's not the only channel soon to be available. I mean come on, out of all the HD channels we still don't have, but are available, they pick Universal HD??

-T

Ok so I got a new plasma Philips 42pf9966 and I'm having terrible signal problems. ABC (007 not 707) last night had a blue line about an inch from the bottom. Sometimes I get intermittent white lines along the very top edge when viewing channels in the 700 range that are not HD (the 4:3 content in SD format) Also the 4:3 content seems shifted to the right about 2 inches. I can see way more of the gray sidebar graphics on the left while watching ESPN but I think that may be the monitor? I'll post on the flat panel board too just in case. Also X-box widescreen games are shifted right/don't display right. Any pointers?

I've been using the 6412 only as a PVR (no HD) for a while, with no problems. Just turned on HD service the other day (new 55" plasma, yay!). Last night I had frequent audio dropouts and pixellation on both CSI and ER, probably once every 45 seconds or so. The audio would dropout for a second or two, followed by a scattering of squares across the bottom third of the picture. The fact that the same thing occurred on two separate stations suggests it wasn't the stations' feeds.

So here's the variable I'm wondering about: We also have internet connectivity through Cox, and my son was playing a real-time online game at the time. Anyone know whether Cox internet fights for bandwidth with Cox HD?

Originally posted by Steve Wilcox
I've been using the 6412 only as a PVR (no HD) for a while, with no problems. Just turned on HD service the other day (new 55" plasma, yay!). Last night I had frequent audio dropouts and pixellation on both CSI and ER, probably once every 45 seconds or so. The audio would dropout for a second or two, followed by a scattering of squares across the bottom third of the picture. The fact that the same thing occurred on two separate stations suggests it wasn't the stations' feeds.

So here's the variable I'm wondering about: We also have internet connectivity through Cox, and my son was playing a real-time online game at the time. Anyone know whether Cox internet fights for bandwidth Cox HD?

How many coax cables come into your house ?

I live in Ladera Ranch and everyone here has 2 feeds, one is internet and telephone and the other is television.

Hm, I'll have to check. Both our cable coax and our phone line feed into a distribution point inside the house. I'm not sure of the nature of the phone line that's coming into the distribution point. I do know that the coax to the cable modem is split off the same line that's handling the TV signal, and there's another split in the TV coax to distribute it out to four locations. It's quite possible that the HD signal is one split too many down the line.

....Cable splits to
............1. Internet
............2. TV, which splits to
....................1. TV outlet 1 (HD)
....................2. TV outlet 2
....................3. TV outlet 3
....................4. TV outlet 4

Probably better to do

....Cable splits to
............1. Internet
............2. TV outlet 1 (HD)
............3. TV, which splits to
....................1. TV outlet 2
....................2. TV outlet 3
....................3. TV outlet 4

Even better to get the Internet onto a separate line if we can...

Originally posted by moyekj
I just got off the phone with Customer Support since I was cancelling HD Expanded Tier.
$4.95/month for only Discovery HD (which I never watch) and ESPN HD is a little much especially since football season is over. In any case I gave the usual complaint about lack of HD channels and she mentioned 742 - Universal HD was recently (1 month ago) added in San Diego and will soon be available in Orange County. I also noticed San Diego has PBS HD which we don't have but she didn't mention anything about that.

As I am the only one who actively watches HD content and I rarely have time some some of the INHD and Discovery HD items I am probably going to do the same and cancel the HD Tier. I looked at Universal HD lineup and it seems to be poor.

Maybe (yeah right) it will help send a message to Cox to add more channels

Well.... got my upgrade to HD and the 6412 box on Tuesday. Not sure I've seen even one non-HD show since then. Love the picture and usually watch the major stations they list (get HBO & Showtime). Way to into ESPN to drop the tier package. As for the IN channels, waiting for the Ultimate Fighting Championships 50 this weekend. HD bloodbath... love it! The 6412 isn't to bad compared to my Tivo... with the following exceptions:

Only seems to list and search a week out.
When you're done watching a rec pgm, returns you to live TV (which I was recording and didn't want to see any of)
What's up with PIP, mine doesn't work... probably my bad?
Miss picking a show and searching upcoming episodes.

Am I missing anything here? Any of these fixable (like the PIP)? Not sure how I watched TV before HD and the new plasma.

Originally posted by NewPlasmaPapa
What's up with PIP, mine doesn't work... probably my bad?

Not supported by this version of 6412 hardware. VideooooGuy stated a few pages back that Phase III 6412 hardware will support PIP but don't know if/when we will get that hardware. PIP is about LAST on my wishlist and I still haven't heard a good reason from anyone why it's so useful, especially on a DVR where everything is pre-recorded - i.e. no live viewing.

Not high on my list either.... just thought I didn't do something right. Like keeping a basketball game up on split screen now and then while I watch something else live. Could record, but only wish to keep and eye on how a game's going.... not watch it in it's entirety.

In playback of a recording, when I pause more than 30 seconds or fast forward more than 30 seconds, the sound output (optical) goes dead and requires me to turn my home theater system off/on or cycle through its inputs to restore audio.

This problem does not exist with RCA outputs.

If I just wait, it takes 15 minutes to get sound back

Is this a known problem and is there a cure?

I just don't get it. People pay money to Cox for their HD service? We went to a neighbors house in Laguna Niguel to watch the Superbowl and the signal kept dropping and kept losing sound, couldn't watch FOX HD for more than 1 minute before the picture breaking up. Had to watch 3/4 of the game in SD until I got home and watched it perfectly in HD and DD5.1 with my OTA receiver, for free. Next year if they have Cox, I'm staying home. Then I don't get it, why does Cox only show one NBC and ABC when there are more than one on OTA HD? And what happened to WB, no important enough? For what they charge, I would expect at least OTA quality and quantity.

buellwinkle, I watched (and recorded) the entire superbowl on FOX HD (711) in Mission Viejo without any problems at all, so perhaps your neighbor has an equipment or local drop problem.

I didn't have any problems at all with breakups from cox during the Super Bowl.

As for paying for the HD service. I agree it is very unreasonable. 10 channels just isn't enough. I have called and even emailed to get more channels but nothing has come of it. The last channel they added was FOX and that was a long time ago.

In my email i requested they add:

Encore-HD, Cinemax-HD, Starz-HD, TMC-HD, TNT-HD, ESPN2-HD, Universal-HD, UPN-HD, WB-HD.

This list was made before i saw the pre-made list.

I wish they had WBHD. My over the air station has two logos on screen. One is on all the time even during commercials. I have emailed them also but they haven't made any changes. I have almost completely stopped watching the WB.

bullwinkle,

I live in Coto de Caza and had the same experince with Fox. I have seen this with all of Fox's football this season, CBS and ESPN have been fine.

niesman

I live in Portola Hills and had no problem with FoxHD for super bowl.

Robert