Does UNIVERSALHD use a different kind of decoder or compression type? I have noticed that file sizes are much smaller on this station compared to other HD channels. In fact a 2+ hour movie (Lost Highway) was under 7 gigs. I'm not complaining. Just curious. Normally a 2 hour program on a 1080 channel would be at least 11 or 12 gigs.

TheRock, going by this bitrate monitor guide it looks like UHD has lower bitrates (just over 11Mbps) than many other 1080i channels:
http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html
(If you have a capture you can use TSReaderLite to measure the exact bitrate).

Note that it's clear from that link above that DirecTV broadcasts at lower bitrates than the OTA broadcasts for HD channels, and lower than what I have measured from some Cox captures. I would guess that Cox OC is getting UHD via satellite though so I would expect bitrates to be similar to those from DirecTV.

I have not been impressed with HD quality of shows like Battlestar Galactica or Monk which look more like upconverted HD than real HD.

7 GB does sound a little low however. If you use 11Mbps as average then you would expect:
(11Mbits/sec)*(7200secs/2hours)*(1Byte/8bits) ~ 9,900MB

For 7GB in 2 hours, bitrate would have to be about:
7*1024*8/(7200) ~ 8Mbps

Thanks for the info. I haven't been wowed by anything on UNIVERSALHD either. Although I haven't found anything bad except for an episode of the Equalizer. If I am reading the info on TSReader correctly my most recent recording from UniversalHD was a little under 9Mbps. I just checked a previous recording of HBOHD and it was over 11Mbps. While running TSReader my Norton Antivirus program informed me that it detected and blocked an intrusion attempt. I will be removing TSReader immediately.

Below is a picture of what looks to be best feature of Passport 2.7 IMO that someone was kind enough to send me. It shows Guide in Time mode with FAV button having been pressed. It puts a little symbol next to A indicating FAV mode and Guide only shows channels you have put in your Favorites list (only 2 in this example):
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/motoechofavguide.jpg

I see skinamax is on the favorites. Excellent choice my friend. :D

lol. Skinemax. I wish we had MAXHD. I would gladly trade KOCE HD.

Does anyone know if we are going to be getting the new WB/UPN channel when it comes out? Hopefully it will just replace the existing HD WB channel.

I imagine it will just be on the current KTLA-HD with no visible change at all. Nothing on that end is changing -- KTLA will still be KTLA, just affiliated with the new network.

And we'll finally get Veronica Mars in HD :)

Cool. I just hope they dont keep the current WB logo placement. It is WAY to far into the middle of the screen. I also hope they dont have those retarded overlays. Example: "Fresh New Episode"

I hope the whole "fresh" thing goes away too, but I'm sure something equally lame will replace it.

Hmm...is it me or did we get a minor software update recently? When selecting future live events to record (F1 is back! And the Daytona 200 bikeweek) it now pops-up asking if you want to extend the record time since it's a live event.

Just a couple weeks ago I recorded all of the daily stages of the Amgen Tour of California on ESPN2....and I was not asked that. (I know it's always been in options) Wish I had been, ESPN ran the previous show over every night and never made schedule. I missed several finishes. Very frustrating! (never watched it till the following week)

Automatic record time extension prompt for live & sporting events was a feature we have had ever since we go Passport 2.5. Not all programs are marked properly in the guide indicating a sporting or live event so it may not work for all programs. But most NBA, NFL etc. recordings I have scheduled so far have had it. There have been a few (from ESPN most noticeably) that have not prompted me automatically.

Any further updates on how the newer, higher capacity boxes are working? Is it time to trade up, or are there still some issues?

My 6416 has still has the 2 issues with workarounds:
1. The "hiccup" problem on 1080i channels when output is set at 1080i and the box is first rebooted. Workaround for me is to switch to 480p for a few seconds and then switch back to 1080i - this must be done only once per reboot. This problem doesn't seem to affect everyone with 6416 and has also been reported by some with Phase III 6412 boxes so I think the TV also plays a role. If you don't see the problem with 6412 Phase III chances are 6416 will be OK.
2. FF/REW stops working after firewire capture. A reboot fixes that problem.

Other than that it's actually great having the extra space and FF is MUCH faster than my old Phase I box so the combination of FF plus the automatic skip back works really well for skipping commercials.

There were reports by others earlier that SD channels look worse on the 6416 compared to 6412 - I can't really comment on that since I very rarely watch/record SD channels with the 6416. My opinion at the time though was most SD channels look like crap no matter which box you use as SD firewire captures played on my laptop also looked bad which means the headend sources are to blame.

Hmm...is it me or did we get a minor software update recently? When selecting future live events to record (F1 is back! And the Daytona 200 bikeweek) it now pops-up asking if you want to extend the record time since it's a live event.

Just a couple weeks ago I recorded all of the daily stages of the Amgen Tour of California on ESPN2....and I was not asked that. (I know it's always been in options) Wish I had been, ESPN ran the previous show over every night and never made schedule. I missed several finishes. Very frustrating! (never watched it till the following week)

Well that's quite interesting. I've been recording live races (mostly, plus some over sporting events) since day one I got this box. (F1 when its on the euro continent is just too early for these old bones to get up, since I now have the excuse of a DVR the past year!) I never ran into those pop-up messages before. Now with the first events of the year in F1 and Daytona Bike week races (all on Speed) I get those for every race. I guess that means Speed finally properly tagged the broadcasts.......

I love a lot of what KOCE HD channel 710 shows, but never really know what's coming on because there is no guide for it. The regular KOCE ch 10 is different lineup.

Anyone know where I can find out what's on KOCE HD Ch. 710? I've tried their site but can't find any info.

thanks...

Nope. I wrote them a couple of times back in the fall, and it's always "soon, soon! we promise!" but nothing is happening.

I wish Cox would switch to KCET HD instead.

JET - the main reason I got the PVR was to tape F1! I cant wait for this Sunday.

Do you know if any country broadcasts in HD?

Any further updates on how the newer, higher capacity boxes are working? Is it time to trade up, or are there still some issues?

Sorry I haven't posted for a while, but what a great forum and great group of contributors. And how lucky to have moyekj keeping his web page up. Thanks!

I was having severe pixalation/video freezing and audio dropouts with the 6412 III. In fact, HD programs were almost unwatchable. Cox had been out a number of times checking signal strength, which has always been good, and they changed boxes. I've changed boxes at least 6 times over the last 18 months, and the pixilation issues never seemed to go away. I also have internet service & telephone service with Cox, and I thought that the signal was getting split too many times. Cox installed an amplifier about a year ago, which didn't seem to help. I read in this forum that someone had an attenuator at the cable box, and I was going to try that. I was also going to try experimenting by disconecting the splitter to either the cable modem or to the phone and maybe disconnecting the video amplifier. But before I tried this, I thought I would give the 6416 a shot.

I am happy to report that the picture looks great, finally. I've only had the new box (I traded it at Quail, without incident - in fact they were very nice, but call ahead to make sure they have one) for a couple days, so I can't say for sure, but I am optomistic that this might have solved the pixalation problems! Now, it is conceivable that I have had a series of bad boxes, but I am very pleased with this 6416. I am using the HDMI output at 720 hooked to a Sony LCD RP through its DVI port.

Besides the larger hard drive and better response time on Rew/FF, I think the unit runs cooler & quieter. Perhaps the newer hard drive is producing less heat and noise.

I have a feeling that some boxes are more susceptable to the pixalation problem than others. My recommendation is to trade to the 6416 box if you are having problems with your existing one. But if everything is working fine, you might want to think twice about giving up a good stable box, for one that just might give you trouble. The slightly larger hard drive and faster transport functions are nice, but wih moyekj having some problems with 1080 output and firewire, you might just leave well enough alone, IMHO, of course!

My 6416 has still has the 2 issues with workarounds:
1. The "hiccup" problem on 1080i channels when output is set at 1080i and the box is first rebooted. Workaround for me is to switch to 480p for a few seconds and then switch back to 1080i - this must be done only once per reboot. This problem doesn't seem to affect everyone with 6416 and has also been reported by some with Phase III 6412 boxes so I think the TV also plays a role. If you don't see the problem with 6412 Phase III chances are 6416 will be OK.


I agree with Kevin that the TV might be a factor here. I had a 6412 III and now have a 6416 and niether has had the pixelation problem described above at 1080i. Since there have a few DVI & HDMI bugs on these boxes that seemed to specific to certain TV's, it wouldn't surprise me it this were yet another one.

As far as connection, I used component for a long time with the phase II box, then switched to DVI. When I first got the Phase III box, I switched back to component until the HDMI firmware fix and have been connected with a HDMI>>>DVI cable since then.


Slightly OT:
Incidentally, don't go spend $100, $50, or even $29 for a ridiculously overpriced HDMI or DVI cable. It is a crime what people are charging for these cables -even the "cheapo" ones.

I found my HDMI>>>DVI cable online at e-bay for a Buy-It-Now price of .99 cents. Shipping was something like $8, so total price under $10. At that price I figured it was worth a shot even it I threw it away. It works great and looks pretty much like the generic ones at electronics stores that sell for the "cheapo" prices of $40-$60.

There were several lengths to choose from, I went with a 9' cable. There are numurous vendors out there selling them for this low. The one I used had DVI-DVI, HDMI-DVI, HDMI-HDMI, etc. If anybody is interested in the vendor I bought from I can probably look it up in my e-bay history. PM me if you're interested.

Is there a real noticeable difference in picture quality between Component and DVI? I believe I hooked up my cable box to my tv with my dvi cable (before I used it to connect my computer to my tv) and I dont recall seeing any difference. That was awhile ago so maybe I am remembering things incorrectly.

You are right about one thing. The prices of DVI cables from your local electronic stores are insane. Those bastards should be shot for charging people $100 for a cable you can find online(different cable but comparable) for about $15. I almost bought one at my local Circuit City for that amount because I didn't know any better. Thankfully by chance I checked online and found one for much much cheaper.

On a side note..... is it just me or is anyone else mad about how commercial Radio Shack has become? It used to be amazing. Great prices and extremely rare and hard to find stuff. Now it only carries a limited amount of stuff and all from the same huge manufacturers. I have gone there several times in the recent past and every time left the store completely disappointed and without the product I went there to find. Seems like they are mostly devoted to selling cell phones now.

Radio Shack changed in order to stay in business. They're probably selling way more in cellphones and consumer products than they were back in the day when we'd go in there to buy the odd capacitor or LED.

Is there a real noticeable difference in picture quality between Component and DVI? I believe I hooked up my cable box to my tv with my dvi cable (before I used it to connect my computer to my tv) and I dont recall seeing any difference. That was awhile ago so maybe I am remembering things incorrectly.


In my opinion, on my set, there is a bit more clarity with DVI than with component but it's really minimal. If I hadn't been able to A-B compare them very closely on a paused image I don't think I would be able to tell the difference. I would be perfectly happy either way. I do use the HDMI/DVI, but it's as much because my two component inputs are used by other devices as it is about quality difference.
Your mileage may vary though.

I agree on Radio Shack, it's sad to see them be so "consumer" now, but as kcrudup pointed out, they'd wouldn't be afloat trying to live off the hobbists buying specialty parts & tools. Used to be they were the place to go to get that oddball "Y" splitter or adapter at a decent price. No longer. Still go for the best selection of "button" batteries though.

Looks like 20 out of 40 of those test channels in the 800s are now being mapped to channels traditionally in the analog space in OC. If you have a digital box (including DVR) now 20 of the channels below 100 are now mapped to QAM 256 digital (SD). NOTE: The analog channels did not go away (and probably won't for a long time) and you can still tune them with an analog (NTSC) tuner such as your TV tuner.

I didn't have a chance yet to compare in detail quality of digital versus analog versions of these channels but my preliminary assessment is I didn't see much improvement since most of my analog channels come in very crisp and clear (and I spent quite a lot of effort in the past making sure I optimize my amplification and splits). For DVR box users theoretically things should improve as you no longer rely on real-time encoders of the DVR box for these channels. So I think there is still a lot of work to be done in terms of assessing quality but I'd be curious to find out what you guys think of quality on your TVs.

Here's what I mapped out this morning with the help of DCT6416 Status Page (Power off, select,select,d06=CURRENT CHANNEL STATUS):


525 MHz (RF 74)
73 = TLC
70 = NICK
59 = E!
57 = HGTV
56 = TV FOOD
16 = ESPN2

105 MHz (RF 97)
71 = TOON
67 = A&E
63 = FSNET2
55 = BRAVO
53 = TRAVEL
49 = MTV
47 = GALAVISION
44 = CNBC
19 = FAMILY
17 = FX

99 MHz (RF 96)
54 = HEALTH
28 = WGN
25 = KAZA
20 = DISNEY

Thanks for the heads-up on the new channels Kevin.

The only channel between 12-99 that we watch regulary is 61(Sci-Fi). Anyone have any idea why this one is missing? There are others missing, but don't really care about any of them.

It's likely the strategy is to deploy the least popular channels first and wait a while to see if there are any issues/complaints. Then if no significant problems arise then I'm sure the other 20 channels will follow shortly. Problem is there are about 70 analog channels in total and only 40 test channels so even if all 40 test channels get deployed soon there are still about 30 channels left, so don't know which ones will not be simulcast - I would guess for now no need to simulcast the channels we have the HD versions of.

It's likely there is lack of bandwidth to deploy all 70 analog channels in digital simulcast right now, and I would rather see some bandwidth left for additional HD channels anyway. With current deployment it looks like there is a max of 10 sub-channels allocated per RF channel for digital simulcast and looks like 4 RF channels have been allocated for simulcast so to get all 70 channels in 4 RF slots that would mean almost 18 sub-channels each which would be too crowded and therefore unlikely.

I still have to analyze if the quality of these channels is better or worse than the analog ones so don't know what to wish for yet. If quality is better then obviously I'd like to see the popular channels such as SciFi in the mix. On the flip side if quality sucks then I would much rather have bandwidth saved for more HD channels instead.

Did anyone else have a problem with the HD reception of Bones last night? I was getting dropouts the whole episode.

I analyzed a few of these simulcast channels tonight and not impressed at all:
16=ESPN2 Analog=Good Digital=Medium
49=MTV Analog=Medium Digital=Bad
67=A&E Analog=Medium(Noise) Digital=Medium (No noise)
59=E! Analog=Medium(Noise) Digital=Bad (Lots of pixelization on motion)
63=FSNET2 Analog=Medium Digital=Bad
For motion scenes the digital versions had lots of pixelization. Also, digital channels all have a lot of ghosting around edges of shapes and text which is not present in analog version. I had to sit way back in my living room for the video to become watchable - if you sit close to your TV you will notice how bad they are.

I captured 2 minute clips of all the above via firewire and while my PC does a better job of displaying them they are still very poor in my opinion. The DCT6416 only makes matters worse - upscaling to 1080i is awful, preserving 480i is better but a little worse than PC playback. The specs on all of these captures were 702x480i with an average bitrate of 3.05Mbps - i.e. pretty lousy.

I much prefer watching the analog channels either directly with my TV tuner or even through my ReplayTV DVR encoding - both cases in general are much more pleasant than via the DCT6416.

Did anyone else have a problem with the HD reception of Bones last night? I was getting dropouts the whole episode.

We watched it in HD last night and it seems like we did have a couple of dropouts. I believe it was both audio and videp that would drop out for like 2 seconds. You'd miss just a couple of words of dialog and it would be back. Only happened 2-3 times during the hour though. I'm in Rancho Santa Margarita.

So the channels are staying in the 0-99 range, or they can be viewed in 8XX... all the 800 channels are still test here for me.

So the channels are staying in the 0-99 range, or they can be viewed in 8XX... all the 800 channels are still test here for me.

I believe the 0-99 are staying right where they are -probably till the FCC deadline for analog runs out.(if the FCC ever picks one and sticks to it)
The new digital simulcasts will likely stay in 8XX. Try tuning a couple of them. There is no guide data and they all still say test there, but if you tune a few of them you may find that the programming is actually being broadcast.

If not, I guess the headend(s) for RSM and Mission Viejo may have had them added first for testing. Not sure where you're at.

Edit: D'oh just saw from your sig that you're in Irvine.

For the channels I listed above you can tune them in the 0-99 range as well as in the 800-899 range (i.e. they both tune to the same thing). In fact if you tune to a channel in 800 range and don't get the subscription message then you know it's been deployed.

EDIT: Note that for channels in 0-99 range that are simulcast if you have a digital box or CableCard they are mapped to digital simulcast channels. For analog boxes/tuners they don't get re-mapped and you get the analog ones.

Thanks for all the info moyekj. I watched a couple of those stations(MTV, E!, ABCFAM) last night to see if I could tell the difference in picture quality but I didn't really see much difference. Hopefully the reason why it is taking so long to enable these test channels is because they are busy trying to make them good. It would really suck if the new versions had worst picture quality. The quality for most of those channels was already pretty bad.

Question about Headend Bandwidth Issues. So as they add simulcast and additional HD channels they eat up their over all bandwidth. I guess my question is; how can we have 300 Digital channels and hopefully atleast 20 of them as HD in the next few years if there isnt enough bandwidth... What about the day when everything wants to be High Def.

Is cable not capable of getting HD into our houses?

I still REALLY want NatG HD, FSN HD, and ESPN 2 HD. I am fine if they drop of UHD now, and lets switch KOCE for KCET with a guide.

Why does one region need more than one PBS anyway?

My guess is a lot of the bandwidth recovery will be obtained by dropping more analog channels over time and that's the real incentive for getting digital simulcast of as many channels as possible in place - it has very little to do with better picture quality - personally I think picture quality is suffering. We already have seen the premium HBO/SHO/MAX analog channels dropped as those were easy targets. For every analog channel that's dropped that makes room for 10-16 QAM 256 SD digital channels or 3-4 HD channels. My guess is also that some headend equipment will gradually be replaced with even more efficient schemes such that even more channels can be crammed into a single carrier channel. So 300 digital channels is really not that hard to fit in about 20 carrier channels or so and is not a big deal.

I can only hope that the popular analog channels will remain in place for a long time to come as I would hate to have to add a converter box to every TV in the house where I currently feed analog cable to and have picture quality severely degraded. At that point a big advantage of cable goes away for me and satellite becomes much more attractive. 2009 deadline only covers OTA broadcasts - there's nothing that says cable can't continue to have analog channels well beyond that time other than that they want to get rid of it to free up more bandwidth for higher margin products/services.

Thanks for all the info moyekj. I watched a couple of those stations(MTV, E!, ABCFAM) last night to see if I could tell the difference in picture quality but I didn't really see much difference. Hopefully the reason why it is taking so long to enable these test channels is because they are busy trying to make them good. It would really suck if the new versions had worst picture quality. The quality for most of those channels was already pretty bad. At least you don't think the quality got worse as I found to be the case! Are you sure the quality is not worse, especially pixelization during motion scenes and ghosting around edges and text? I guess I must sit closer than most to the TV (about 5-6 feet) and notice pretty much any defect. To really appreciate HDTV one has to sit closer to the TV than was traditionally the case.

At least you don't think the quality got worse as I found to be the case! Are you sure the quality is not worse, especially pixelization during motion scenes and ghosting around edges and text? I guess I must sit closer than most to the TV (about 5-6 feet) and notice pretty much any defect. To really appreciate HDTV one has to sit closer to the TV than was traditionally the case.
System 1: 32" LCD HDTV with a DCT6416. Overall quality of the digital (800) stations is significantly better than before. I think I can see the ghosting if I look for it, but with this smaller screen it's less of a problem. The picture is generally so much sharper than before that I don't care about the ghosting too much. (Question: Is it ghosting like you would get with a funky antenna signal, or edge enhancement like you would get if the sharpness were too aggressive?) This weekend I will run a second coax cable to the set to compare straight analog through the TV tuner to the digital versions through the 6416.

System 2: 55" plasma HDTV with a DCT 6412 III. I have not yet had a chance to look at the new digital channels on this. I will do so tonight or over the weekend. It will be trickier to get a straight analog feed to this set, but I'll try to do a comparison here, as well.

Steve, on your DCT6416 what is your output set to?

I had my DCT6416 set to 1080i Wide, Stretch 4:3 Pic (which scales 480i->1080i and stretches horizontally). This was really bad when set that way so I changed it to:
1080i Wide, Preserve 4:3 Pic - 480i. This improved things quite a bit but still sub-standard, especially if I then have the TV do horizontal stretch. Best I can make it look is Preserve 4:3 Pic - 480i and no stretch on the TV but even then ghosting and especially motion artifacts are still very noticeable. The ghosting I think better fits your over-aggressive sharpness definition - basically it looks like a transparent replica of outlines like after brushing your teeth if you look closely you can see an almost invisible outline along the bottom of your teeth. It's very noticeable around text and also on zoomed out profiles of people in motion. On the analog feeds directly to TV tuner both of these problems are not present. With analog fed through my ReplayTV DVR I see much more subtle hint of these problems but MUCH better looking than the simulcast channel which points the finger at the headend encoding being the culprit. I think even the DCT6416 encoders did a better job than the current headend encoding.

Question about non hd channels...

Over time I have recorded several non HD channels to my computer through firewire. I have noticed that several times the files dont have the correct dimensions. For instance I just recorded something from BBC Channel 346 and the Resolution was 528x480i. The picture is all squeezed and people look very skinny. What is the reason for using that resolution instead of a more traditional 640x480?

On a side note I still dont see a major difference in picture quality on the new channels. If anything they a bit better to me now.

On a side note I still dont see a major difference in picture quality on the new channels. If anything they a bit better to me now. TheRock, how are you comparing picture quality between analog and digital simulcast channel? Note for example that 49 and 849 are exactly the same thing when viewed through the DCT box. You have to run a separate coax split to your TV RF input (bypassing DCT box and assuming your TV doesn't have CableCard) to tune to analog 49 now.

When sitting/standing close to the TV you don't notice any motion artifacting or ghosting at all when viewing the digital?

"how are you comparing picture quality"

I am going totally by memory and also by watching previously recorded shows from those channels that I have saved to my DVR.


"notice any motion artifacting or ghosting"

I absolutely notice motion artifacting and ghosting when viewing those channels. The thing is, I have always seen those visual flaws on those stations. ABCFAMILY, MTV, FX, and E! have always looked dreadful to me. They still look dreadful but they seem to be minimally better now.


Some info

My Television = Sony KV-34XBR910
My box Settings = 1080i Wide, Preserve 4:3 Pic - 480i
Distance from Television when viewing = About 7-8 feet

BBC might be a bad choice to use for that kind of test; somebody along the chain had to convert from a 625-line, 50Hz PAL(? SECAM?) system to 525-line 60Hz NTSC and the dimensions are probably all off 'cause of it.

JET - the main reason I got the PVR was to tape F1! I cant wait for this Sunday.

Do you know if any country broadcasts in HD?

Sorry for a late answer...I don't stop by that much these days. To the best of my knowledge no one covers F1 yet in HD. A Euro broadcaster was doing a Digital feed, but it was not HD. Don't know where that stands as of yet....

Kevin, you otta send those recordings you made to Cox. Maybe they don't much watch what they expect and make us pay for!

30 channels now being simulcast. Some more popular ones now in the mix (ESPN, TNT, FSNET, etc.)

525 MHz (RF 74)
73 = TLC
70 = NICK
59 = E!
58 = LIFE
57 = HGTV
56 = TV FOOD
46 = FOXNEWS
27 = TBS
16 = ESPN2
14 = CNN

105 MHz (RF 97)
71 = TOON
67 = A&E
63 = FSNET2
55 = BRAVO
53 = TRAVEL
49 = MTV
47 = GALAVISION
44 = CNBC
19 = FAMILY
17 = FX

99 MHz (RF 96)
64 = FSNET
54 = HEALTH
42 = KFTR
28 = WGN
25 = KAZA
22 = USA
21 = DISC
20 = DISNEY
18 = TNT
15 = ESPN

I've had a lot of audio drop outs and flashes of pixelation the last couple of days. Specifically on American Idol on Monday and Lost on Wednesday. This was on playback, not live.

Is it time for a new box for me or did anyone else experience this on these shows?

-chuck-

Lost on ABCHD had 2-3 second flaw yesterday that I remember clearly. Didn't check if OTA transmission had same flaw but chances are it did. Don't remember a glitch with AI on Tuesday (I assume that you mean Tues not Mon), but I tend to FF a lot during that show so could have missed it. AI on Tuesday seemed OK, yesterday AI had a recording error (error 14 whatever that means) and didn't record - luckily my trusty backup ReplayTV recording analog channel recorded fine.

Lost on ABCHD had 2-3 second flaw yesterday that I remember clearly. Didn't check if OTA transmission had same flaw but chances are it did. Don't remember a glitch with AI on Tuesday (I assume that you mean Tues not Mon), but I tend to FF a lot during that show so could have missed it. AI on Tuesday seemed OK, yesterday AI had a recording error (error 14 whatever that means) and didn't record - luckily my trusty backup ReplayTV recording analog channel recorded fine.

Yes you are correct, I meant Tuesday for AI.

The flaws I experienced couldn't be missed. About every 30-60 seconds the audio would drop out for 1-2 seconds accompanied by a burst of pixelation. As you can imagine, this made the singing performances very frustrating. (Who'll be the first to jump on that straight line?) ;)

Since it happened on two different channels on two different days I figured it was my box, especially if no one else saw this on theirs.

-chuck-

I recorded the last 2 Lakers games on FSNET= channel 64 with my DCT6416. The DCT6416 now records the digital simulcast version of that channel instead of the analog version.

I also used my ReplayTV to record the same 2 games from FSNET, the difference being that the ReplayTV tunes to the analog version of the channel and then does it's own mpeg2 encoding and recording.

The DCT6416 recordings are HORRIBLE when there is any significant motion - i.e. most of the game. The only time it looks better than the ReplayTV recording is when there is no motion. There is significant motion artifacting and ghosting around edges any time any player moves with the DCT6416, and this was noticeable even when viewed 10 feet away from my 30" LCD HDTV.

The ReplayTV recording (I used medium quality encoding setting) on the other hand in comparison has hardly any motion artifacting or ghosting around edges and is much more pleasant to watch.

Finally, viewing the analog channel directly with my TV tuner (without going through ReplayTV) is the best option of all since it doesn't require any encoding/decoding.

I can only conclude that either the FSNET digital encoding at the headend is very bad or the DCT6416 decoding is very bad.

Guess I'll need to try a different digital box to compare to the DCT6416 - unfortunately I don't have CableCard for my TV so can't bypass the DCT to view the digital version of that channel. Anybody else recorded and watched those games (or any sport for that matter) with their DCT box?

I watched the Clipper game on FSNET tonight and it looked its normal horrible way. Nothing new for that channel to suck for me.

I did have some serious issues with ESPNHD earlier today. Serious dropouts of both sound and video. Also several freezes.

Actually the Clippers game tonight was on FSNET2 and it did look pretty horrible, but believe or not it actually looks a little better than the Lakers game the other night on FSNET. Still I think it's bad enough where I will obtain a firewire sample for further review on different monitors and with different decoders to determine if it's really the DCT that does a bad job decoding or if the headend source is bad to begin with.

I took a 4 minute firewire clip recorded from FSNET2 (63) Clippers game tonight:

* The original recording played via the DCT6416 it looks pretty horrible - a lot of motion artifacting and ghosting around the edges.
* The clip played on my 17" laptop looks *MUCH* better - very little motion artifacting and almost no ghosting around the edges at all. Not a fair comparison however since it's a small screen.
* So I then took S-video output from laptop to HDTV S-video in and it still looked *MUCH* better than decoding through the DCT6416. S-video does tend to soften the picture a little but I don't have VGA input on the HDTV and my laptop graphics card doesn't have DVI output so S-video was my only choice. I would assume however that a better resolution output from the laptop would most likely look better than S-video and certainly better than through the DCT.

So I'm convinced - the DCT6416 has a VERY LOUSY decoder for SD digital. It's like the sharpness level is turned WAY up or something producing a lot of ghosting around the edges and excessive motion artifacting.

This is my 2nd DCT6416 that exhibits this problem, so unless I'm very unlucky I conclude the problem is with the DCT6416 model. Earlier in this thread (a few weeks ago) I remember someone complaining about the DCT6416 and returning it for a DCT6412 so I know I'm not the only one that noticed the problem.

I will now have to compare to a DCT6412/III model to see if that's an improvement.

that was me! 8) I HATED the 6416. SD and analog channels were horrible compared to the 6412 II or III. Just like you describe, it's like the sharpness is WAY up and you see little jaggies and pixels around the edges of people and objects. I returned mine and got the 6412 II. Smaller HD but SD looks much better.

Anyone think or know if Cox will set up this service?

http://www.cablemiles.com/vouchers/index.cfm?fuseaction=redeem

Adelphia offers it, will cox follow?

I wouldn't mind cashing in with United!

Looks like there are no more test channels.

Does anyone know if Cox plans to add Showtime On Demand , TMC On Demand , or Flix On Demand? It would be cool to at least have Showtime On Demand.

Does anyone know if Cox plans to add Showtime On Demand , TMC On Demand , or Flix On Demand? It would be cool to at least have Showtime On Demand.


Sorry, But I hope none of these are offered. They are bandwidth hogs. I would prefer that available bandwidth be allocated to HD programming. Adding any of these services will only lead to additional compression on existing and any future HD programming.

If you want more movies get netflix.

Sorry, But I hope none of these are offered. They are bandwidth hogs. I would prefer that available bandwidth be allocated to HD programming. Adding any of these services will only lead to additional compression on existing and any future HD programming.

If you want more movies get netflix.

Wow. I didnt think Ondemand effected anything. I wasnt aware it takes a large amount of bandwidth for On Demand material. In fact I thought it took very little since you are only viewing one program at a time and not all of the ones available. But in the end I never did understand how the On Demand thing even works. It seems almost like magic to me. :p
But if it would effect the compression of existing and future HD programming than I certainly agree I would rather see more HD channels with better picture quality.

Speaking of future HD channels.... Whatever happened to us getting StarzHD? I could have sworn I heard we were going to get that channel soon. I know they dont offer much in HD but sooner or later they are bound to improve and I would definitely like to catch some of there exclusives in HD.

Wow. I didnt think Ondemand effected anything. I wasnt aware it takes a large amount of bandwidth for On Demand material. In fact I thought it took very little since you are only viewing one program at a time and not all of the ones available. There is quite a lot of space reserved for On Demand viewing whether it is all being used or not. From what I have seen there are least 7 RF channels (and remember each RF channel can carry 10-15 SD digital channels) in OC dedicated to EOD programming, of course many of them don't carry anything at times and it depends exactly where you are as it is very localized what's being carried to different neighborhoods. The demand picks up mostly around weekends and subsides during the week from what I've seen in my neck of the woods. I think some of the PPV channels were cut in the past to make room for more EOD space.

I highly doubt that the EOD bandwidth is being fully utilized right now and there would be room for more, but personally I don't like or use EOD and could happily live without it at least in it's present form. I don't see the point of time-shifted programs for Starz, HBO, etc. since that's what we have DVRs for, and for movies you can get much better quality, selection and flexibility by renting DVDs. I'll admit I did like watching extended NFL highlights of the Dolphins during NFL season via Sports Freezone as that's something I couldn't get anywhere else and that's the type of thing that adds value to me.

Now if there were movies in HD available via EOD or if Cox could make a NFL Total Access type deal (I know DirecTV has an exclusive on that right now) available via EOD then I might be interested, but right now for movies in SD digital the quality is very inferior to DVDs.

Cox' OnDemand is really slow and limited and the user-interface is horrid compared to what I get on Comcast at home in L.A.

Got my 3rd DCT6416 yesterday night (they were out of DCT6412/III units and had a new batch of DCT6416 units). Recorded Clippers B-ball on 64=FSNET (digital simulcast channel) tonight and it looked absolutely horrible just like with my previous unit - so I'm convinced the DCT6416 is flawed. I'm keeping the recording on it and tomorrow I'm going to have Cox hook it up to one of their TVs and show them exactly what I'm talking about since they keep claiming they haven't heard about this problem before.

EDIT: Wow, I decided to hook up the DCT6416 to the TV using composite (RCA) connections and the picture looks MUCH, MUCH better. So looks like the flaw with the DCT6416 is with SD channels going out the component or HDMI outputs.

moyekj : what do you tell them each time you go in to swap boxes? I've returned/swapped 3 times and each time they are absolute jerks about it. I even had to ask for a supervisor one time to swap and tell them how pissed I was with the "customer service". We pay $$$ for the damn thing, we should be able to have whatever box we want without being hassled.

EUREKA - I finally figured it out! Seeing that composite connections looked OK I hooked the DCT6416 back up via component connections again. Looked horrible. So I started fiddling with TV settings. If I turn sharpness setting on the TV all the way down to 0 then finally the basketball game looks OK - all the ghosting around the edges and most artifacting goes away.

So it looks like the sharpness level put out by the DCT6416 is much higher than previous models and you can compensate by adjusting your TV settings. So I think I can learn to live with it and will keep the DCT6416 now. It's not normal to have sharpness set to 0 and with other inputs (ReplayTV, DVD) it looks way too soft but that setting looks OK with the DCT6416.

Quigs, I've been going to Quail Hill retail center and must say that I have always been treated very respectfully. The knowledge level by the attendants has been much to be desired but they have been very courteous. The couple of times I've been to RSM retail center it has been a different story - pretty rude.

Hey! There is actual guide info for KOCE-HD!

I never thought we'd see the day...

Hey! There is actual guide info for KOCE-HD!

I never thought we'd see the day...

That was such a outlandish statement I thought it was another April Fools joke. LOL. Thankfully not. I dont watch KOCE often (less than 5 times since it was added by COX) but it is nice to know they finally did something right for those who do watch.

Hey does anyone know if the RCA video/audio inputs on the front of the cox dvr box are enabled? we can't get video game or camcorder to work.

It is normal to have to Tweak your TV for EVERY TV Connection type. Also sometimes you have to tweak it for every Source type, Cable, DBS, or Digital Cable.

Avia and DVE Tweaking DVDs come in handy. Good to hear its better now.

"Got my 3rd DCT6416 yesterday " do they let you have more than one DVR per House in your Cox Market?

My COX market has a limit of one DVR per account.

"Got my 3rd DCT6416 yesterday " do they let you have more than one DVR per House in your Cox Market?

My COX market has a limit of one DVR per account. Yes, I had two DCT6416 units at a time for a few days. In fact I went in wanting to get a DCT6412/III but they couldn't find any (I looked too and found a DCT6412/2000 but no phase IIIs) - but there was a whole stack of DCT6416 units so they are obviously not in short supply over here.

For those that would like the National Geographic Channel in HD on Cox

I found this out when I called there Marketing Department Friday.

National Geo HD is trying to get Cox cable to add right now, but Cox is telling them, that not very many of there customers want it and they they may add the MTV HD or FOOD HD channel instead (they have limited bandwidth).

So they setup a web site and a 1-877 number so you can vote to say you want it. Go to it the site and also call. They said they would be meeting again with Cox in 3 week again to show them charts and stats, that Yes there customers do want the HD channel.

The web page only reports how many HITS they got. The 1-877 records your Zip code and that you want the HD Channel. You can only vote once as all 1-800 numbers also record your caller id number even if its blocked.

Here is the link

http://getngc.cablesource.net/greet...cookie_redirect

It will then give you the 1-877 number to call and VOTE to get National Geo HD.

Here the phone #
=========================
NGCHD
National Geographic Channel High Definition (NGCHD) is not currently offered by Cox Communications. Please call 877-77NGCHD (877-776-4243) to request that NGCHD be added to your channel line-up!
=========================


Good luck everyone in your market.

PBS channels 6 (KCET) and 10 (KOCE) are now digital simulcast channels as well - tuning with digital box gives you the digital versions.

I just moved from being a E* subscriber to COX (Irvine). Just got installed this past weekend with a Digital moto STB and a DVR (moto 6412?)

We got the STB box working however the DVR has no program guide. Called tech support and they tried to resend signals to no avail. They are sending a techinician over on Sat. Not sure I can wait till Saturday as I'd really like to try out the DVR feature (NCAA championship!).

Is there an easy fix you guys know of that I can try at home? I've already unplugged/replugged the unit 2-3x. Am I missing a step? Or should I just go to one of the retail stores and get a new box?

directcj it's likely the Out Of Band (OOB) tuner used to download guide listings and other info is not working properly most likely related to signal strength. One quick thing to try is to press and hold down the Guide button on the DCT6412 unit for 5+ seconds since that forces a guide download. However, unplugging the unit should also force a guide update so don't think that will fix anything but it's easy to try.

It can't hurt to take your existing box to a retail center and swap it out for another to see if that solves the problem. If not then it's likely a signal issue and the tech should be able to clear it up by cleaning up signal from your drop to the box (or from street to your drop).

directcj it's likely the Out Of Band (OOB) tuner used to download guide listings and other info is not working properly most likely related to signal strength. One quick thing to try is to press and hold down the Guide button on the DCT6412 unit for 5+ seconds since that forces a guide download. However, unplugging the unit should also force a guide update so don't think that will fix anything but it's easy to try.

It can't hurt to take your existing box to a retail center and swap it out for another to see if that solves the problem. If not then it's likely a signal issue and the tech should be able to clear it up by cleaning up signal from your drop to the box (or from street to your drop).

thx
I'll try the guide button thing.
I'll also try plugging it into where the regular STB (upstairs mbr) is to see if that helps (maybe there is a signal drop to where I have the DVR plugged into, but I doubt it).

Looks like the quail hill ctr closes at 7 so I'll have to hurry after work as doing the 2nd item seems to take 15 or so minutes before programming appears.

Also, I noticed the clock is way off (obviously it shows the # of hrs I've had it on since when i turn it on it starts at 12:00)

Also, I noticed the clock is way off (obviously it shows the # of hrs I've had it on since when i turn it on it starts at 12:00) This is an obvious sign that OOB tuner is not working at all. If the clock is not getting set to correct time then you won't get guide info either. If you don't have a proper return path (or very weak return path) for your cable connection that could be the cause of the problem. The cause could be cheap amplifier with no return path or some kind of weird splitter - the tech should be able to figure it out.

OK- here's my problem. Every evening after watching at least 4 hours or so I get a horizontal line that crawls up the screen. It does this on both HD and analog. I thought it might be my tv but checked with tuner "a" that is a direct connect from cable to tv. It is fine. I use DVR 6416III, Anyone have any ideas?

robert

Hum Bar. Electrical interference, could be a bad ground or other bad device in the house. I have seen furnaces, humidifiers, air conditioners, VCRs and bad power connections at the street cause this. If you are going to troubleshoot yourself be VERY CAREFUL, not uncommon to see 60V on between the coax and ground as whatever is causing the problem is using the coax for ground rather than the correct electrical ground.

Hmm, got up this morning (about 5:30am) and saw my 6412 was in DL mode....then seemed to hang a long time. Try'd to reboot, had to unplug it. Went into DL mode then stopped, figure maybe its de-compressing files? Had to go to work, expect I'll get a call from the wife if it aint up. Wonder what the large download was all about? Anyone see any new stations today?

JETninja, it was a firmware update. My box is now showing firmware 12.31 upgraded from 12.27. Haven't had a chance to test if there are any noticeable bug fixes yet such as if using firewire still messes up FF/REW.

I guess expecting "release notes" on the new software is too much, huh?

Here is a bit of info for those who are having problems with the FF/REW after using the Firewire Capture. All of the below steps are based on the box currently working properly. If the box isn't working right you need to reset it before these steps are taken.

Tune to the channel of the recorded show that you wish to send to your PC.

Open up CapDVHS and set it to the correct time. I usually give it an extra minute or two just to make sure I get all the show.

Hit Record on CapDVHS.

Take your remote and hit the DVR List button.

Select the show your want to record and select Play.

Dont touch anything on the computer or Cable box until the CapDVHS program is completely done recording.

Lastly I would recommend you check the recording you just made to your computer using a program like HDTVtoMPEG2. Sometimes my recordings are corrupt or have serious breakups. Once you see the recording is good you can now delete it from your DVR. If you do have breakups or the recording is corrupt unfortunately you need to do the whole thing over again.


Using the above steps I have decreased the amount of times I need to reset my box greatly. The FF/REW feature lasts a much longer time now. It still goes bad after awhile but rarely after each individual recording.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH..............

They Killed my 6412! Ever since this morning when I left for work and it had a locked "dl" on the display....all it does now is stay black for 30 sec, then flash the display, then black again. Once in awhile a 2 or even a 12:00 but back to black. Power switch does nothing, un-plugging does nothing. Probably gonna lose some valuble to me shows on the HD. I'm so pissed ATM. They'll be out Thursday afternoon. I'd take it to them but my car is down and wife is at work with the other.

TheRock, I don't understand what's different about your recipe to a normal way of doing it? About the only thing I do differently is I start the program I want to record playing first on the DCT and then click on start using CapDHVS and I usually hit stop in CapDVHS before it stops automatically towards the end of the recording. After that I close CapDVHS and unplug the firewire cable with the laptop still running. The last few times I did this it screwed up FF/REW every time no fail. It's not a huge deal since I very rarely capture anything anymore. I'll probably try it again soon to see if 12.31 behaves any differently - I suspect not.

I think stopping CapDVHS prematurely might be freaking out the box. I also think that when you start the DVR recorded program before CapDVHS it might freak out the box. In the past when I tried starting the program before CapDVHS the picture would go crazy with breakups and be unwatchable. It didnt happen everytime but fairly often. Doing the steps I said before has helped make that problem go away completely. I use a desktop PC and keep the Firewire cable connected all the time.

I use a desktop PC and keep the Firewire cable connected all the time. I think that might be a key difference. When I have the firewire cable still plugged following a capture FF/REW still work fine on the DCT. It's after I unplug the firewire cable that FF/REW are broken. Perhaps if I stopped the drivers and shutdown the laptop gracefully before unplugging it may help instead of just yanking out the cable with the laptop turned on.

Hum Bar. Electrical interference, could be a bad ground or other bad device in the house. I have seen furnaces, humidifiers, air conditioners, VCRs and bad power connections at the street cause this. If you are going to troubleshoot yourself be VERY CAREFUL, not uncommon to see 60V on between the coax and ground as whatever is causing the problem is using the coax for ground rather than the correct electrical ground.


Schmitter--

Thanks for the info. I googled "hum bar" and did a little reading. At first I thought the furnace (evening getting cold) Tried turning it on no hum bars. Than I read about dimmers. I have track lights above the HT and a dimmer switch on the wall. That was it !! I can modulate the intensity of the bar by lowering or raising the dimmer and if I turn it off the bars disappear. My question is NOW WHAT :).

Robert

This is an obvious sign that OOB tuner is not working at all. If the clock is not getting set to correct time then you won't get guide info either. If you don't have a proper return path (or very weak return path) for your cable connection that could be the cause of the problem. The cause could be cheap amplifier with no return path or some kind of weird splitter - the tech should be able to figure it out.

Must have been the OOB tuner. Went to Quail Hill, got a new box and now all is good! thx

Schmitter--

Thanks for the info. I googled "hum bar" and did a little reading. At first I thought the furnace (evening getting cold) Tried turning it on no hum bars. Than I read about dimmers. I have track lights above the HT and a dimmer switch on the wall. That was it !! I can modulate the intensity of the bar by lowering or raising the dimmer and if I turn it off the bars disappear. My question is NOW WHAT :).

Robert

Verifiy that the light and switch are wired correctly. Hot to hot and neutural to neutural. It isn't that uncommon for the wires to get swiched arround, especially at the switch. On a on/off switch it doesn't matter, but on a dimmer... If that doesn't fix is, try a different dimmer. Instead of mechanical try electronic or the other way arround.

Yeah, those dimmers are huge sources of EMI; they cause spikes where they lop-off the sine wave duty cycle.

Watching the Dodger game tonight and the picture looks great, much better than it used to be. Not sure why but it's nice to see.

Watching the Dodger game tonight and the picture looks great, much better than it used to be. Not sure why but it's nice to see. You are getting digital version of the channel now instead of the analog one. Last I checked Cox OC is simulcasting in digital 32 of the channels in the analog lineup now.

One of the post said the Digital Simulcast channels looked bad.

Is this still true now that they have tweaked them? What about the main network channels like USA, Spike, and most importantly to me SCI FI

Is it worse that Sattelite and there over compression of the main networks?


Has any one called cox to complain, so they can fix it?

One of the post said the Digital Simulcast channels looked bad.
Is this still true now that they have tweaked them? What about the main network channels like USA, Spike, and most importantly to me SCI FI
Is it worse that Sattelite and there over compression of the main networks?
Has any one called cox to complain, so they can fix it? Most of the complaining was from me. I finally found that if I turn the sharpness setting on my HDTV down to 0 when watching SD digital channels (such as the simulcast ones) then it looks OK and in some cases better than the analog channel. I think the problem may be TV specific as others apparently don't see this problem at all.

SciFi channels is not yet one of the digital simulcast channels. USA SD digital certainly looks better for me now compared to the analog version (with sharpness set to 0 on TV). I've never had satellite at home so can't say if it's comparable/better than satellite or not.

Quick question--TV Guide On Screen Display

I am using a cablecard from Cox for digital cable and have TV Guide on-screen channel guide on my TV (Panny 50" Plasma). For the past 3-4 days, I am not getting any TV Guide information updates. Does anyone have a TV Guide equipped TV that can check to see if they are getting the guide info? It had worked great for the past 7 months--then just stopped.

Thanks in advance for any help. I hope it isn't the TV..... :confused:

Quick question--TV Guide On Screen Display

I am using a cablecard from Cox for digital cable and have TV Guide on-screen channel guide on my TV (Panny 50" Plasma). For the past 3-4 days, I am not getting any TV Guide information updates. Does anyone have a TV Guide equipped TV that can check to see if they are getting the guide info? It had worked great for the past 7 months--then just stopped.

Thanks in advance for any help. I hope it isn't the TV..... :confused: From what I recall from the Sony DVR forums the TV Guide data usually comes via one of the analog PBS channels. Since you are using CableCard now your TV tunes to the digital simulcast versions of those channels and hence the TV Guide data is no longer available. The PBS channels were switched to Digital Simulcast recently (the last few days).

I would venture a guess that if you pulled out the cablecard from your TV that you could then get TV guide data to work again since then you would get analog versions of PBS channels. Looks like this is a side-effect Cox didn't consider for their simulcast plans.

EDIT: You may also find that even with cablecard pulled TV Guide still doesn't work. That would signify that perhaps Cox change things around in headend and are digitizing the PBS feeds and then converting back to analog to supply analog version in which case the TV Guide data would get filtered out. In any case, it's likely the problem is due to changes related to digital simulcasting.

Has anyone reported the Digital Simulcast Sharpness issues to Cox, if enough report it they will open a problem ticket.

They must have a setting wrong.
There is a Sharpness setting for this on the boxes they are using in the Sub Head ends.

Kind of like how you can tweak the sharpness on your TV they can do this also on there end. I but the factory default is wrong and if Cox does not know about it they will roll this out wrong for all markets.

Other Cox customer markets are watching the Cox Organge county roll out. Your our eyes and ears, thanks. We all seem to have our own AVS forums, but this one seems the most interesting right now with the Digital Simulcast roll out.

Moyekj-

Thanks for the help with the TV Guide On Screen and the possible issue with the digtial simulcast. I am calling Cox tech support now--I'll let everyone know what I find out.

ScottChez I reported the problem in person the last time I returned a DCT6416 to a retail center. Problem is I don't think the people there really had a clue what I was talking about so it probably went in one ear and out the other. Also, it's strange that I seem to be the only one (actually there was 1 more forum poster that saw it bad too) really noticing the problem so perhaps other TVs are not as sensitive to the issue as my 30" LCD HDTV.

The problem is only for SD digital where I have to turn sharpness to 0. For analog channels and for HD channels I can put the sharpness setting on the TV back to normal and I don't have any issues so maybe you're right - the sharpness setting from the headend is too excessive for SD digital channels and some TVs are more sensitive to it than others.

Ok, got my new 6416 III box, so far no real picture complaints. Had to remove my EDA-4G amp (no 2-way..never a problem for any update or box before, just no On Demand) to get it working. Then for the past day it wouldn't record a thing....then 2 minutes ago I rebooted it....recording works now. Go figure!!!

Report back if I have any issues. Just know I am running a 4yr old Philips 55" RPTV. I run Component from the STB into my Pioneer VSX1014 (along with my Toshiba 2900 DVD) and use its component switching to run a component to rgb cable into the set. For all 480i I run Composite. The set has:

480i (all have Coax, Composite and S-Video inputs)
AV1 - TV
AV2 - VCR
AV3 - Camcorder side input


480P / 1080i
AV4 - Not used ATM - Component Input
AV5 - HD and 480P DVD - RGB

So no DVI / HDMI stuff here.....in a couple years I'll get a 1080P set.....(love the HP's)

moyekj - are we able to record off the 6416 via DVI to my laptop yet?

JET, DCT6416 firewire capture works if that's what you meant. Still has the nasty side effect of screwing up FF/REW after you use it and unplug firewire cable however (as with 6412/III boxes)- fixed by rebooting the box.

Ok, thought there was a driver issue I read about a few months ago......

Anyone else get a reboot today (Sun 4/08) around 4PM?

Nope, no reboot for me today.

Huh. All three (6412/6416/and the standalone) rebooted this afternoon. I was surprised since it's nothing I did, and there was no update (and one shouldn't have happened at that time anyway).

Has anyone heard any rumblings about the upcoming Food Network HD and HGTV HD; in addition to MTV HD (which Cox was supposed to launch nationwide as the primary partner, no?) and NGC HD.

Blah. I want something other than Universal HD with Knight Rider repeats all day; although I can appreciate the golf in high-definition.

Yeah, I got multiple reboots this evening in Irvine.
Now On Demand doesn't work and keeps saying error 160. :(
I'm starting to really hate Cox.

I hate Cox more and more..

OC is like 40% asian and we dont even have the azn channel.. :)

actually I want better PBS HD programming..san diego has the best PBS programming so far.

I hate Cox more and more..

OC is like 40% asian and we dont even have the azn channel.. :)

More like 14%, according to the 2000 census:
http://www.ocalmanac.com/Population/po13.htm

actually I want better PBS HD programming..san diego has the best PBS programming so far.

Yes, better PBS programming would be nice. Though getting listings for KOCE is a step in the right direction.

I was wondering about that also. I could have sworn that I heard that all COX markets were going to get MTVHD when it launched. It would be cool to get some more HD channels but I am still happy about the addition of UniversalHD. It does have WAY to many reruns and NBC really needs to add some newer shows (like the kind Bravo airs a day after it appears on NBC) but I have watched several Movies and I am loving the unedited, uncut, semi logo free presentation. Way better than TNT and in fact has taken over most of my viewing time from TNT.

Speaking about UniversalHD...

I have noticed that when I fast forward Recorded shows from this channel it is a bit jumpy and the speed isnt consistent. Is it because they have a lower bitrate than other HD channels? It isnt a big problem or anything but something I have been curious about none the less.

http://www.ocalmanac.com/Population/po13.htm
I knew certain demos were low in the OC, but I now see there's really no point in waiting for "VH-1 Soul" at my Irvine office ....

I would REALLY REALLY like ESPN2 HD for the World Cup coming up in June. (Even tho all the games will prob be at 3 am)

Why can't Cox just add some of these, I am sure there is enough bandwidth.

Really Really want to watch programing on these channels in HD, mainly baseball and World Cup.
FSN HD
NG HD
ESPN 2 HD

Not desperate for these but wouldn't mind
Food HD
MTV HD

I would switch to D* but my roommate and I both have HD DVRs, and this would run 800 bucks or more with Dish. I do prefer only paying 15 (30 for 2) a month with Cox

ESPN2 HD seems way overdue especially since we have to pay $5/month extra for ESPN HD & Discovery HD. However it still ticks me off how often I tune/record an ESPN HD game only to find that it's upconverted SD with sidebars (even though the guide description has HDTV at the end). I would imagine ESPN2 HD is even worse. That said I too would love to record all world cup soccer games in June since ABC family of networks promised to carry all 40 games or so in HD between ABC/ESPN/ESPN2 HD. Universal HD was added in time for Olympics so maybe there's hope ESPN2 HD can be added in time for World Cup Soccer.

Moyekj-

Thanks for the help with the TV Guide On Screen and the possible issue with the digtial simulcast. I am calling Cox tech support now--I'll let everyone know what I find out.

I am having the same TV Guide On Screen problem all of a sudden. I have a Sony DVR and it can no longer download the data through my digital cable box. Up until last week, I did not have any problems going on 9 months. Did you have any luck with Cox tech support?

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Should I do what www.wewanttvvhoice.com says? It claims cable competition will bring options and lower prices to our neighborhood. As long as it brings ESPN 2, by June I am game. HAAH

I am having the same TV Guide On Screen problem all of a sudden. I have a Sony DVR and it can no longer download the data through my digital cable box. Up until last week, I did not have any problems going on 9 months. Did you have any luck with Cox tech support?

Thanks in advance for any and all help.


Do you have two antenna inputs? If so, try hooking up an antenna to the second one and picking up your local PBS off air. You should get the guide data that way. I have heard of this working elsewhere in the forums.

FYI. I got Cox "In Touch" 2006 flier today in the mail and it says:
"And by the end of summer customers with a digital receiver will see channels 2-73 in 100% digital quality for an ultra-clear picture with lifelike sound".
Last I checked there were still 32 being simulcast so there are plenty more to come over the next few months.

I am having the same TV Guide On Screen problem all of a sudden. I have a Sony DVR and it can no longer download the data through my digital cable box. Up until last week, I did not have any problems going on 9 months. Did you have any luck with Cox tech support?

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Here's an update on my experience with the TV Guide On Screen data issue from my end:

I contacted Cox. They were worthless. They couldn't tell me if the PBS stations have recently gone digital, know nothing about the data transmissions and basically blew me off.

I sent emails to KCET and KOCE, along with National Datacast. I found from googling that National Datacast is the company that provides the transmission service to TV Guide. National Datacast forwarded my email to TV Guide, and they have responded a couple of times.

The most recent email that I received from Shawn Howland, CE Technical Support for TV Guide On Screen [Shawn dot Howland AT tvguide dot com] stated "Cox has digitized their Cable Box lineups, which means our signal will not pass with a cable box connected as we only send analog signals. We are aware of this problem and are working on a resolution. As of now we currently do not have an ETA. I will update you when more information becomes available." :(

The problem definitely applies to both Digital Cable Boxes and Cable Cards.

For those of you out there experiencing this problem, I would encourage you to contact TV Guide so that they know that there are many of us waiting for them to resolve this problem.

I am off to take my digital box out of the equation, so that I can at least get the analog signal through to my DVR. Ugh. Don't want to redo all the connections, but I guess that's what I have to do until they figure something out. I don't think that my Sony RDR-HX900 has a dual antenna input like the person suggested above, but if anyone has any suggestions I am open!

Thanks for your help to you guys who chimed in on this issue!

Anya

I'm not sure what all has been posted considering how huge of a thread this is, but I thought I would just post some of the information I know about the cox cable systems since I also live in orange county.
keep in mind, this is what I've heard, I'm 99% certain that it's right, but I could be wrong.

cox signals are still being sent in digital and analog, it's only the latest HD boxes that use the all digital signal. This is what I was told by my boss, who said he found out from our retail sales rep

also, for anybody that's using the DVR boxes and don't know, the DCT6416 III recently came out having HDMI support and is using all digital signals. It also has a 160GB HD instead of the 120GB HD. We've had some problems using it with the DVD-O i-scan up converter, but other then that from what I've heard it works like a charm. I'm getting a new DILA TV soon so I'll be able to give more details on how well it works then.

a little background, I work for a home theater installation company and we do a lot of jobs where we put in cox cable boxes.

I am having the same TV Guide On Screen problem all of a sudden. I have a Sony DVR and it can no longer download the data through my digital cable box. Up until last week, I did not have any problems going on 9 months. Did you have any luck with Cox tech support?

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Why don't you use a simple splitter to have one cable go to your digital box and the other one to your sony DVR?
I too have a sony (HD) DVR and it's been working like a charm.

Eric

Why don't you use a simple splitter to have one cable go to your digital box and the other one to your sony DVR?
I too have a sony (HD) DVR and it's been working like a charm.

Eric

Eric,

I currently have a splitter.... one going to my digital box, and one going to my TV. I did this so that I could record 1 and watch the other by hitting TV/Video on my TV. There is also a Sony receiver in this mix.

Should I just have the digital box's feed go into my TV if I want to watch premium channels? and have non-premium cable go into my DVR?

Ugh. I have always thought that my set up might not be the greatest. :rolleyes: Help!

Anyone else having problems with OnDemand?

I hate the mysterious, non-specific "please call Cox" error messages :(

Eric,

I currently have a splitter.... one going to my digital box, and one going to my TV. I did this so that I could record 1 and watch the other by hitting TV/Video on my TV. There is also a Sony receiver in this mix.

Should I just have the digital box's feed go into my TV if I want to watch premium channels? and have non-premium cable go into my DVR?

Ugh. I have always thought that my set up might not be the greatest. :rolleyes: Help!

So your Sony receiver gets the cable source from your digital box which only pass digital through hence not getting the guide on the Sony?
Two options:
- option 1: get a three way splitter so the 3rd can be hooked up to the Sony
- option 2: keep the current and use the TV as a monitor with both the digital box and the sony as feed sources

Eric

I've got a Samsung DLP with cablecard installed. Like everyone else with Cox, mine suddenly dropped all analog channel listings.

I went into TVGOS' channel editor and all the channels that had disappeared were THERE, but w--a---y at the end, after all the blank, "future" channels. They also were all turned off. After manually turning them back on, some stayed (some reverted to off the next day), but I've tried again tonight to see what happens.

So your Sony receiver gets the cable source from your digital box which only pass digital through hence not getting the guide on the Sony?
Two options:
- option 1: get a three way splitter so the 3rd can be hooked up to the Sony
- option 2: keep the current and use the TV as a monitor with both the digital box and the sony as feed sources

Eric

If I went with Option 1, that means that I would not be able to DVR premium channels, right? It's not necessarily a deal breaker, but I do sometimes DVR stuff off of premium channels. I also like Cox's digital guide, so I tend to use that unless I am recording with the TV Guide On Screen (which I have become sooo used to).

Or, am I reading Option 1 wrong? :confused: My other problem is that I have a 32" Sony big-ass TV that I cannot get to the back of. And, as I recall, not a lot of inputs.

Have I mentioned that I *really* appreciate the input?

Thanks,

Anya

If I went with Option 1, that means that I would not be able to DVR premium channels, right? It's not necessarily a deal breaker, but I do sometimes DVR stuff off of premium channels. I also like Cox's digital guide, so I tend to use that unless I am recording with the TV Guide On Screen (which I have become sooo used to).

Or, am I reading Option 1 wrong? :confused: My other problem is that I have a 32" Sony big-ass TV that I cannot get to the back of. And, as I recall, not a lot of inputs.

Have I mentioned that I *really* appreciate the input?

Thanks,

Anya

With option 1, the new splitter would receive its cable source from the wall outlet and would split the signal into 3, so one would go into your cable box DVR allowing you to still record premium channels, one into your TV (like it is now) and one directly into your sony DVR (allowing you to receive TVguide data).
The remaining question is do you have enough video inputs in your sony TV to directly plug the sony DVR?

I thought that the issue was that the TV Guide data was no longer availible on the cable, due to the digital simucast. In theory, if the analog signal is still there, you should be able to get the guide data like you have been. Couple of exceptions. If the cable card in the device maps the PBS channel to the digital version, that could confuse it. Couple of things to try. remove the cable card and see if you get the TV guide back. If so then the problem is the mapping. You could request that the cable provider add the analog PBS back into that map to get the guide data. If that does not work, then see if you can pick up PBS the old fashioned way, with an antenna, from the air. (OTA) The design on this whole guide thing is just horrible. Did they think that analog was going to be arround forever? Why wouldn't they desing it so you could get the guide data over the internet if you chose?

After hooking up a DVD recorder's RF-in to the cable here in the OC place, I was quite surprised at how many unscrambled analog channels there are available here in Cox-land (Comcast in L.A. gives you just the broadcasts and a handful of cable stations unscrambled).

I wonder if these will all go away once Digital Simulcast takes hold? That would somewhat suck.

Analog version of FSNET West (channel 64) was having all kinds of problems last night before, during and after Clippers game. Video and audio dropouts and some weird artifacting. Anyone else notice that?

Don't know if the digital simulcast version had the same problems or not. Luckily I also recorded Clippers game on ESPNHD. It also had a couple of artifacting issues but only once or twice.

I didnt watch FSNET but I have had some serious breakup problems on other channels for the past day or two. I havent watched much TV in the past two days but I have seen several breakups on both HBOHD (700) and TNTHD(718). Those are the only channels I've seen have the problem so far. If I see any more I will be sure to post it here. I recently made some changes to my setup (my HDTV is currently being repaired) so I thought it was just me. I am still going to check all of the connections and make sure they are tight.

I also had a possible issue with a recorded show from ESPN (15). I recorded the Indy Car race and it went from the intro of the show directly to Lap 17. I didnt know if this was my box having issues, Cox having issues, ESPN having issues, or ESPN simply advancing into the race to fit in the time allowed. The transition was smooth so I thought it might be intentional but it seemed like a very odd thing for them to do.

I've been trying to watch the Dallas game on TNT HD but I've been experiencing massive breakups in the broadcast. It seems more common during the parts other than the game, but it's also very present there too. It's not just artifacting but rather, the picture just stops for a two seconds or so. Already restarted the DVR and still the same issue. Similar, but much less severe on HBO HD.

Sounds like TheRock and I may be in the same situation. I'm in south Mission Viejo.

*sigh*

I have also noticed the massive breakups with TNT HD. This was true with both my 6412 STB and CableCard both yesterday and today. The other HD (non-premium) channels seemed OK.

I sure hope Cox gets this fixed soon. I'm in Aliso Viejo.

Yes, I confirm TNT HD has lots of breakups and freezes. FSNET analog and digital versions also having breakup problems. ESPN HD also had a couple of breakups today. Something is wrong at the Cox headend obviously...

TNT HD in Irvine (Perfect Storm) while bearable is breaking up a lot.

Lots of breakups on HBO today... Pretty unwatchable.

Glad it wasn't just me. Had interruptions on HBO HD and TNT HD as well in Aliso Viejo. My first post, I hate to repeat what others have said, but it annoyed me enough to do it.

I'd also like more stations. Wasn't it in this forum a couple of months ago a link to an article where it gave the impression that ESPN 2 HD would be coming soon? The joys of early adoption, can we still be considered early adopters to HDTV anymore?

Nothing like a newbie repeating what everyone already knows. Sorry bout that.

Jason

<snip>
I'd also like more stations. Wasn't it in this forum a couple of months ago a link to an article where it gave the impression that ESPN 2 HD would be coming soon? <snip>
There still may be some lingering "bad blood" between Cox and Disney over ESPN dispute a couple of years ago:
http://www.laughingplace.com/News-ID10018790.asp
So I wouldn't hold my breath on ESPN2 HD anytime soon. I'd love to have it in time for World Cup Soccer in June...

I haven't tried using OnDemand in while but when I tried right now to launch it, it gave me error 160. Anyone else getting this?

HBO was a nightmare this weekend -- it was okay on Friday night (recorded The Rock latenight) but by Saturday evening it was horrible, with audio drop outs every few minutes at least. I switched to the non-HD feed for the second hour of the Elizabeth movie.

Has anyone called them?

I haven't tried using OnDemand in while but when I tried right now to launch it, it gave me error 160. Anyone else getting this?

Ink Noise, I had this problem last weekend, but it went away by itself. I don't know if calling will do any good or not.

Hey guys,

I'm considering switching to Cox from DirecTV but had a couple questions, specifically about the DVR.

- Can I add storage space?
- How can I record all Laker games? With Tivo, I use a Wishlist to do this, since the titles and channels are different for each game.

Thanks,
Bryan

bryanb, external hdd storage is not supported by Cox on their DVR even though a SATA port exists for that purpose. There were mentions in the past about this being enabled eventually but nothing officially announced AFAIK.

There really is no equal to Tivo Wishlist. The Series Record option works when the title is unique. It can record any episode on any channel (or you can restrict to specific channel & time slot, etc if you wish) and so is roughly the equivalent to Tivo Season Pass. For Wishlist the closest equivalent is the Theme Record for which you can have title keywords or description keywords.

For Lakers games the title is "NBA Basketball", so obviously a title-based theme channel won't do.
For description-based theme channel if you merely enter "Lakers" there will be too many unrelated recordings so that won't cut it either. It's possible if you play around you may be able to come up with description-theme that only records Lakers basketball games, but even then the problem is you cannot restrict to specific channel or channels. And remember that you have HD channels and SD channels, so obviously you'd like to give preference to HD channels.

In short, there is no efficient way to tell it to record all Lakers games. Having a theme channel with Lakers keyword will mean you have to go often to the Scheduled Recordings list and cancel recordings that are not relevant which is not a good way of handling it.

What I do is use my ReplayTV scheduling facilities to identify the relevant recordings and then setup 1-time recordings on my Cox DVR. Other problem is Cox DVR only has 7 days of listings so you can't plan too far ahead using that method.

Looks like digital simulcast additions are continuing now after a pause, and a new RF channel 82 is being used. 2 "junk" channels added:
34=KMEX (RF 82)
36=KVEA (RF 82)
Also, the 2 PBS channels are also now on RF 82.

Are the analog PBS channel(s) mapped for those of you with cable cards and TV Guide On Screen?

Are the analog PBS channel(s) mapped for those of you with cable cards and TV Guide On Screen? CableCard users get the same channel mapping information as the digital set top boxes so if using CableCard you would get the digital simulcast versions instead of the analog versions when tuning to PBS channels. TVGOS as you probably know is currently only carried in the analog transmissions so TVGOS needs to have access to analog channels to get the information. It's not clear to me if by having only CableCard input to your TV is sufficient to "block" the analog channels therefore breaking TVGOS. The issue could well be that PBS channels are being encoded to digital at the headend (or before) at which point the TVGOS data is lost, and the analog feed is then created by decoding the digital feed and so wouldn't have TVGOS data. For people with CableCard it's pretty easy experiment - try with and without CableCard to see what happens to TVGOS. If you can't get TVGOS to work even without CableCard then clearly the analog feeds are not the original analog broadcast feeds.

Personally I feel this is more TV Guide problem than a Cable Company problem since with the upcoming digital broadcast only requirement they should have a digital solution in place for this by now.

Looks like digital simulcast additions are continuing now after a pause, and a new RF channel 82 is being used. 2 "junk" channels added:
34=KMEX (RF 82)
36=KVEA (RF 82)
Also, the 2 PBS channels are also now on RF 82.

Kev,

What does this mean? Do I have to do anything different to see the digital simulcast channels or just tune my catv box as normal? I presume that's all I do and I will see a better picture quality, correct?

Thanks,
Tom

Yep, gotta love (sic) Cox! Remember their pat answer for what HD channels get added? "Our HD channel lineup is dictated by the amount of customers who request a particular channel. We add certain channels based on customer input."

I'd like to see who in the hell requested UniversalHD over FSNHD or ESPN2HD!!!! Are you kidding me!? Knight Rider? The Executioner or whatever the hell that other 80's show is? LOL

C'mon, apologies for the few that like some of those 80's shows, but I cannot believe how many reruns of old shows that channel has. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Sorry, end of rant.

What does this mean? Do I have to do anything different to see the digital simulcast channels or just tune my catv box as normal? I presume that's all I do and I will see a better picture quality, correct? Yes. So, for example when you tune to the PBS channels 6=KCET or 10=KOCE with your Cox digital box or CableCard TV tuner you are getting the digital feeds now instead of the analog. As to whether it looks better that is subjective, but probably should look better for most people.

I'd like to see who in the hell requested UniversalHD over FSNHD or ESPN2HD!!!!
Me, for one. :p There is good content on UniversalHD: Battlestar Galactica Monk Law & Order SVU Some of their moviesPlus, the content on UniversalHD is actually in HD, unlike 95% of the shows on ESPN-HD (replaying SportsCenter 18 times a day doesn't count). :D

Feel free to ignore me... I'm just bitter that getting Discovery HD forces me to subsidize ESPN. In any case, I think we all agree that Cox's lineup could use a lot of work. HD On Demand would be nice, Sho On Demand, and more HD channels are all on my list.

I just can't see how they added that over other worthy channels. 4 current shows and a bunch of 80's re-runs just doesn't make sense to me over the overall programming of other HD options. Mostly, I get tired of their (Cox) B.S. answers. Making me seriously consider Direct Tv or Dish.

"I'm just bitter that getting Discovery HD forces me to subsidize ESPN."

I completely agree. Paying 4.95 for TWO channels is ridiculous. But, ya gotta do it if you want one of them. Kinda like going to a ballgame or the movies and having to shell out 4 dollars for a coke. :mad:

Now, on a different note, a few questions about splitters:

In my office/den I have the cable coax coming in and then running through a two-way splitter (1 to my cable modem for internet and 1 to another two-way splitter, which splits the signal to a)my TV and b) my PC video card ATI All in Wonder with TV tuner).

Now, I've got to think going through two splitters really degrades the signal. True? or not?

What other mehods could I use? Are there 4-way splitters out there? So I don't have to use the 2nd splitter.

Could anyone point me to a link of the best type of splitters to use?

The ones I have say two-way GHS-2 and are 1000MHZ / 1GHZ splitters. Good? Bad?

thanks!

Yes. So, for example when you tune to the PBS channels 6=KCET or 10=KOCE with your Cox digital box or CableCard TV tuner you are getting the digital feeds now instead of the analog. As to whether it looks better that is subjective, but probably should look better for most people.

Are you sure? Because when I tune in 6 (KCET) it still shows "Analog Cable" on my TV w/cablecard. If I tune in 806, it says "KCET DT Digital cable." The picture seems different as well...I don't know if I'd call it better, just different.

In short, I don't think my cablecard is automatically giving me digital. Besides, some analog channels don't seem to have a digital counterpart yet (although I'm at work right now and can't remember any off the top of my head).

Are you sure? Because when I tune in 6 (KCET) it still shows "Analog Cable" on my TV w/cablecard. If I tune in 806, it says "KCET DT Digital cable." The picture seems different as well...I don't know if I'd call it better, just different.

In short, I don't think my cablecard is automatically giving me digital. Besides, some analog channels don't seem to have a digital counterpart yet (although I'm at work right now and can't remember any off the top of my head). Certainly with digital set top box I'm absolutely sure. CableCard I don't have but just assumed they map channels the same way as a digital set top box which they are supposed to replace. With the Cox DVR the simulcast channels in 800 range are no longer there so since you still can get to them via CableCard that suggests a difference in behavior.

There are only about 34 channels in analog lineup being digital simulcast right now, and mostly the less popular channels (at least less popular for me). Cox has been deploying the simulcast channels in increments and recently have slowed way down presumably because of customer problems/complaints such as the TVGOS problem.

Hi, new to this thread. I'm in OC as well, RSM, and recently switched from DirecTV to Cox. I have the Moto 6416 III hooked up to my Toshiba plasma and really enjoying watching the HD channels. I am also praying for ESPN2HD in time for the World Cup this summer. Is there anyway we can let Cox know that we are REALLY interested in it? I've called CS a couple of times to ask them if they have plans to add it but so far they have told me they don't know.
Later,
MC

Well, after 2-3 weeks of my DVR not being able to download TV Guide On Screen data through my digital cable box, sometime between Wed 4/27 & Thur 4/28, the data became available again! Woo hoo! :D

I have not received an email update from TV Guide, so I am not sure if TV Guide enabled their data to go through via digital & analog, or if Cox re-mapped something, or :confused:

I know for a fact that it was a digital problem for me, as I have 2 Sony DVR's with TV Guide On Screen. The one connected without the box (analog only) never lost data. The one that had a digital box between the wall and the unit lost data for 2-3 weeks.

I am completely thrilled that this resolved itself before I completely reconfigured my connections. TV heavy... ugh.

Anyone have any idea who my hero is?

Anya

Me, for one. :p

Me, for another. I don't want any more sports channels. I'd rather have UHD even if all I watch on it is hidef Battlestar Galactica.

Me, for another. I don't want any more sports channels. I'd rather have UHD even if all I watch on it is hidef Battlestar Galactica. Too bad it's a season behind SciFi channel though... not very interesting watching fairly recent re-runs even if they are HD, and the HD is not that great from what I saw.

OT: WOW, what a Lakers game!! Doesn't get any better than that! A tad more exciting than the Clippers games I must say... hopefully the battle for LA is coming up in 2nd round.

Put me down for NG-HD. I already made my call. Hopefully we get it. I saw that Quake show about the big SF earthquake in 1906 and it looked pretty good for nonHD. I like their programming....:)

Is anyone else noticing a big pic quality difference on the low end analog channels? (2-75)

We have a 6412 2000 and usually the low end channels are smooth on our big screen tv, but tonight they are very "jaggie" on the edges of objects/people. Just noticed it tonight.

Has Cox screwed the signal up again somehow?

HD and those channels are fine...just the analogs are a lot more "jaggie" than usual.

A few more digital simulcast channels were added. RF channel 95 was completely eliminated in favor of RF 82. Latest additions were under RF 82. This is the latest list I have of channels now being digital simulcast:
DIGITAL SIMULCAST CHANNELS (40 total using 4 RF channels)
06 KCET
10 KOCE
12 KDOC
13 KCOP
14 CNN
15 ESPN
16 ESPN2
17 FX
18 TNT
19 FAMILY
20 DISNEY
21 DISC
22 USA
25 KAZA
27 TBS
28 WGN
29 KWHY
32 KXLA
34 KMEX
35 KSCI
36 KVEA
41 KRCA
42 KFTR
44 CNBC
46 FOXNEWS
47 GALAVISION
49 MTV
53 TRAVEL
54 HEALTH
55 BRAVO
56 TV FOOD
57 HGTV
58 LIFE
59 E!
63 FSNET2
64 FSNET
67 A&E
70 NICK
71 TOON
73 TLC

Has anyone else heard of the rumor on Gizmodo about Cox considering a Cox branded Tivo?

Sorry I can't link to it, I haven't made 5 posts yet.

Go to Gizmodo and do a search with the key words COX and TIVO


Subscribers of Cox Cable—you know who you are—may have recieved a questionnaire asking if they’d purchase a Cox-branded TiVo device. The questions alluded to the fact that Cox may be dumping their current DVRs and coming out with their own special TiVo boxes—HD-ready, hopefully.

Let’s listen in, shall we?

As you may or may not know, Cox offers DVR service. The DVR is built into the Cox digital receiver box and is operated using a Cox digital service remote control. While Cox currently offers its own DVR service, the Cox DVR may soon be powered by TiVo, and include the features that TiVo owners have come to expect. If Cox were to offer digital cable service with a TiVo branded DVR for about the same price as you are currently paying for satellite service each month, how likely would you be to switch from satellite TV to Cox cable that featured this TiVo branded DVR service?

Interesting

Oh Me oh My
http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/05/cox-communications-mulling-partnership-with-tivo/

Is anyone else noticing a big pic quality difference on the low end analog channels? (2-75)

We have a 6412 2000 and usually the low end channels are smooth on our big screen tv, but tonight they are very "jaggie" on the edges of objects/people. Just noticed it tonight.

Has Cox screwed the signal up again somehow?

HD and those channels are fine...just the analogs are a lot more "jaggie" than usual. What channels specifically? Note that 40 of the channels are now digital when tuning via your 6412 (see above for the list) - not the traditional analog you were used to. As I reported before the sharpness level is way too high and I needed to change my sharpness level to 0 on my TV for SD digital to look OK.

Oh Me oh My
http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/05/cox-communications-mulling-partnership-with-tivo/

That would be good news, I miss my Tivo from when I was with DirecTV. It had more options than the Cox DVR.

Speaking of Sharpness levels . . . .

What are good setting for the DVR? For Color should I use Cool, Warm or Neutral?
What about the Brightness?

For Sharpness should it be set in middle unless your watching a Digital simulcast channel?

What mode works best, my Sony has Vivid, Standard, Movie, and Pro?

WOW!!!! Did anyone watch what I think was the first FSN HD game ever on Cox. For some reason INHD1 had the LAD HOU game and instead of airing the INHD broadcast they picked up the FSN Prime Ticket HD Broadcast. SPECTACULAR. Now we just need to get them to give us FSN HD as its own channel.

It is on now so check it out

OK, here's my latest problem. I'm in Tustin on Cox using a 15 month old 6412 attached via component to my Plasma TV (at the moment I don't have my software version but I imagine its current for this model). for the most part, all of the HD channels are working just fine, both viewing live and recorded. However, I have a show on VH1 that I record that for the last 3 weeks is completely unwatchable. The picuture has HORRIBLE problems, lots of dropped sound, frozen pictures, large visible rectangular shapes (not sure of the technical term for this). Sometimes its so bad the recording just freezes. Once, it stopped after 37 minutes, skipped about 15 minutes and went right to the last 5 minutes or so. Tonight, I actually flipped over to that channel to see if it was a problem was also there live and it is. I doubt the recording will be watchable. For kicks, I flpped down a channel (to 49) and basically saw the same flaws and the screen actually went black. Fortunately, as soon as I changed back to another channel, the picture was fine again.

I wanna say I saw something in another post that sounded similar, maybe something to do with the new digial simulcasting of the SD channels?

Lardoggy, VH1=channel 50 is still analog so I don't think digital simulcast is your problem there.
Channel 49=MTV is a digital simulcast and is using previously unused RF channel 97 (105MHz which is in FM band), so it's possible due to bad shielding/poor coax cable quality you are getting FM interference.

You can check for yourself using your box if channels in question are analog or digital:
Tune to channel 2
swap
Tune to channel 50
Off, select, select
Scroll down to D6 and right arrow.
down arrow pages to other tuner's info.
power off then on again to resume

You should see 1 tuner at 57MHz type analog - that's channel 2
For other tuner (VH1) you will most likely see 381MHz type analog.

If you repeat above but use 49 instead of 50 you will see 105MHz type = QAM 256 indicating it's digital.

Hey Kev, what are your thoughts on them showing 5 hours of FSN PT HD over INHD1 last night.

Was it 1 in a million or a test to see if FSN HD is worth while, or a hint that all HDPT games will be shown, just over something else?

I hadn't heard of this being done before seeing it live.

Hey Kev, what are your thoughts on them showing 5 hours of FSN PT HD over INHD1 last night.

Was it 1 in a million or a test to see if FSN HD is worth while, or a hint that all HDPT games will be shown, just over something else?

I hadn't heard of this being done before seeing it live.

Why in the heck didn't they advertise this or mention it somehow. Was it listed in the guide? It should have been so that we who want FSN HD could have checked it out.
:mad:

Well it preempted whatever MLB game that was meant to be on INHD1. So the guide said MLB Baseball, but as INHD never lists the teams, it wasn't denoted. Not sure why they did it, hopefully it is a regular occurance though.

Hey Kev, what are your thoughts on them showing 5 hours of FSN PT HD over INHD1 last night.

Was it 1 in a million or a test to see if FSN HD is worth while, or a hint that all HDPT games will be shown, just over something else?

I hadn't heard of this being done before seeing it live. It's news to me too. INHD channels have pissed me off in the past with some sports programs in the schedule (e.g. Lakers games) only to find they are blacked out or showing something else, so I don't rely on them for any sporting event and in fact hardly ever watch them at all. I would much prefer just to have FSN PT HD instead of the INHD channels.

I can only hope since I highly doubt we will be getting ESPN2HD for upcoming World Cup Soccer that same thing happens there.

Has someone compiled a list of worthy HD channels we don't have yet lately?

Is it just me or is hardly ANY NBC programming in HD? My wife has become addicted to "Deal or No Deal", which is in SD. "Scrubs" last night was SD. This morning, I went in late to work and watched "Today" -- in SD. I don't watch NBC often, but it seems like every time I have lately it has not been HD, with the exception of Leno. Is this NBC HD? Or is something wrong at Cox's end?

Attention: FSN PT HD on 716 again!!! Looks like a regular occurance, I am pleased!

Did anyone else have a lot of problems during Lost tonight? It looked awful for me.

Looked great here in Irvine.

I watched & captured Lost via firewire tonight and edited out commercials - looked good & no problems. Quite an episode I must add!

Great... I guess I need to have them come out and look at my signal issues.

Lost was perfect over here with the exception it went to like 10:05 and the DVR was set for 10:01 only. Luckily I was on ABC and could just watch it at the begining of Invasion.

I notice that if I have lost on the second tuner the picture is not as crisp as the 1st tuner. The picture has a little flicker in it on tuner 2. Swap it and see if that helps.

Lost was perfect over here with the exception it went to like 10:05 and the DVR was set for 10:01 only. Luckily I was on ABC and could just watch it at the begining of Invasion. Though I didn't expect it to mine actually did record until 10:05 so my guide must have got the update. I know there were many at Tivo forums complaining they lost the last 4 minutes as many didn't get the guide update in time. What's nice with this software too is you can extend recording time if you want while something is already recording - that is not possible with ReplayTV software so another plus for Passport Echo.

I notice that if I have lost on the second tuner the picture is not as crisp as the 1st tuner. The picture has a little flicker in it on tuner 2. Swap it and see if that helps.

Yeah, no, this wasn't just a little flicker. It was constant breakups and dropouts, and I noticed at the same time my TiVo (on an analog RF connection) had horrible analog static.

I've been having on and off problems for a long time. I have just been putting off having them come out. I'm sure they'll blame everything on my splitters, but if that was the problem it should be more consistent than it is, I would think. And I had the intermittent analog static issue before I had the 6412.

Ok Great News (Well Kind of), just got this memo.

Cox is going to air the following FSN HD games on the INHD channels (It could be 1 or 2) so 716 and 717. Atleast it is a start. These will not be blacked out, and can be viewed on FSN PT and FSN West as usual.

Angels Schedule:

6/19/06 7:15 PM LA Angels @San Francisco
6/20/06 7:15 PM LA Angels @San Francisco
6/21/06 12:35 PM LA Angels @San Francisco
6/30/06 7:05 PM LA Dodgers @LA Angels
7/2/06 12:35 PM LA Dodgers @LA Angels
7/31/06 7:05 PM Oakland @LA Angels
8/2/06 12:35 PM Oakland @LA Angels
8/23/06 7:05 PM Boston @LA Angels
8/24/06 7:05 PM Boston @LA Angels
8/25/06 7:05 PM NY Yankees @LA Angels
9/11/06 7:05 PM Chicago White Sox @LA Angels
9/12/06 7:05 PM Chicago White Sox @LA Angels
9/13/06 12:35 PM Chicago White Sox @LA Angels

Dodgers Schedule:

5/9/06 7:10 PM Houston @LA Dodgers
5/10/06 7:10 PM Houston @LA Dodgers
5/11/06 12:10 PM Houston @LA Dodgers
5/19/06 7:40 PM LA Angels @LA Dodgers
5/21/06 1:10 PM LA Angels @LA Dodgers
6/5/06 7:10 PM NY Mets @LA Dodgers
7/6/06 7:10 PM San Francisco @LA Dodgers
7/7/06 7:40 PM San Francisco @LA Dodgers
7/9/06 1:10 PM San Francisco @LA Dodgers
7/21/06 7:40 PM St. Louis @LA Dodgers
7/24/06 7:10 PM San Diego @LA Dodgers
7/25/06 7:10 PM San Diego @LA Dodgers
7/26/06 12:10 PM San Diego @LA Dodgers
8/11/06 7:40 PM San Francisco @LA Dodgers

CSPAN & KTBN added since last check. RF channel 95 in FM band being used again after a brief period of no use. Interesting that none of the popular network channels are being simulcast yet suggesting this is still in experimental mode or there are difficulties with the deployment.
DIGITAL SIMULCAST CHANNELS (42 out of 72 analog channels total using 5 RF channels)
06=KCET 10=KOCE 12=KDOC 13=KCOP 14=CNN
15=ESPN 16=ESPN2 17=FX 18=TNT 19=FAMILY
20=DISNEY 21=DISC 22=USA 23=CSPAN 25=KAZA
27=TBS 28=WGN 29=KWHY 32=KXLA 34=KMEX
35=KSCI 36=KVEA 40=KTBN 41=KRCA 42=KFTR
44=CNBC 46=FOXNEWS 47=GALAVISION 49=MTV 53=TRAVEL
54=HEALTH 55=BRAVO 56=TV FOOD 57=HGTV 58=LIFE
59=E! 63=FSNET2 64=FSNET 67=A&E 70=NICK
71=TOON 73=TLC

Need some help & advice-

My Panny TH50PX60U just arrived :D
I've hooked upt to the plasma via component. I tried the composite cables and notice that via composite I don't get the full screen on the local HD channels (plus I don't get the guide info :confused: )

The TV has two HDMI hook-ups but I noticed that the Moto 6412 box I have shows DVI-d. I thought we had HDMI? Anyways, if I hook up to it via the HDMI what sort of cable will I need and any suggestions where to get it? I looked at the monster cables and they're priced too high for me.

Is the component or HDMI hook-up to the TV best? I will eventually get an OPPO DVD and will probably connect to the plasma via HDMI/DVI but wasn't clear with this STB we have.

directcj you should trade in the box you have for a DCT6416. It has HDMI port and bigger disk to boot. Take the box you have now into one of the 2 retail centers and you can swap it out easily.

You should definately use component not composite (composite are the old RCA jacks and useless for HD). I actually prefer component to HDMI in my hookup (I have both HDMI and component going to TV). You should check the output settings of your box as spelled out here:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html#Specifying_Video_Output_formats
You need to choose 720p or 1080i output depending on what your TV accepts and whichever looks better.

Cheapest HDMI cables are online. If you are in a hurry you can find non-monster brand HDMI cables at CompUSA or Best Buy but they are still way over-priced compared to online.

directcj,

I have several DVI, HDMI, HDMI-DVI cables plus a few HDMI-DVD adapters from MonoPrice.com (this forum's sponsor) and they all work great. Very expensive cables are a RIPOFF 99% of the time. Both the manufacturer's and the retailer's markups are HUGE!
In some cases, people reported better results from expensive cables when such cables were very long (most of the time, exceeding the maximum recommended cable lenghts).
I just bought a well-made HDMI-DVI cable from MonoPrice.com for a shockingly low price (it's made in China). A similar cable (but with nicer looking connectors and attractively packaged - totally unnecessary) would cost you a few hundred dollars at a retail store, especially if it was made (probably in China as well) by the well known rip-off manufacturer (use your imagination who).

Mike

moyekj-
thx for the info
you also helped me when my oob tuner conked out.
Guess i'll have to go back to quail hill to get a 6416
Is there any thing else I should get there?
I will probably eventually get HD but would like to get the hook-ups optimized before i plunk the extra $ for the HD service.

Are there any issues with the 6416 that I need to be aware of?

one other thing, the set can receive up to 1080p but i believe can only output 1080i


mikeser-
just started checking out monoprice and also blue jeans cable. One question i have is if there are any differences in cable build between component and composite cables. I have lots of composite cables (including the set that I got from cox) and was wondering if i could just connect using the composite cables to component.

directcj, no nothing else you need from the retail center. Note that the TV you bought has an OTA ATSC tuner and unencrypted QAM tuner so you have 2 means of getting HD without paying anything. Cox network HD channels (NBC, CBS, WB, FOX, ABC, PBS) are all unencrypted, so if you take a split from your cable drop to input of your TV you can run a scan and should be able to find those HD channels. In fact, knowing the RF channels they are on is most of the battle and the Cox OC headend spreadsheet at the end of my guide has that information. Also, don't discount OTA as a possibility - you will be amazed at what you can pickup over the air even with a cheap $20 indoor amplified UHF antenna. Of course the downside of not ordering HD service from Cox is you won't be able to DVR the HD channels or get the cable HD channels (TNTHD, ESPNHD, Discovery, INHD, etc. which are encrypted).

directcj,

I have several DVI, HDMI, HDMI-DVI cables plus a few HDMI-DVD adapters from MonoPrice.com (this forum's sponsor) and they all work great. Very expensive cables are a RIPOFF 99% of the time. Both the manufacturer's and the retailer's markups are HUGE!
In some cases, people reported better results from expensive cables when such cables were very long (most of the time, exceeding the maximum recommended cable lenghts).
I just bought a well-made HDMI-DVI cable from MonoPrice.com for a shockingly low price (it's made in China). A similar cable (but with nicer looking connectors and attractively packaged - totally unnecessary) would cost you a few hundred dollars at a retail store, especially if it was made (probably in China as well) by the well known rip-off manufacturer (use your imagination who).

Mike

I completely agree with you on the cable issue. The thing that makes me laugh the most is the Monster premium fiber optic cable for digital audio. What do they think they can do, make the ones and zeros go faster?

What I think is funny is how a set of RCA "video" cables (R/L/V) is a third of the price of a set of "Component" cables. Guess which one I use?

What I think is funny is how a set of RCA "video" cables (R/L/V) is a third of the price of a set of "Component" cables. Guess which one I use?

looks like you just answered my question of the differences between component and composite cables.
I was wondering the same thing exactly, why are "component" cables more expensive than composite cables when they appear to be made the same way?
I bought a set of component cables at radio shack and intend to return them once i found monoprice.com and also based on what you just mentioned.

... why are "component" cables more expensive than composite cables ... ?
Marketing!

I've seen one brand (RCA, I think) of 3-cable, 6-foot bundles where the "Video" set was $X, and the "Component" set was nearly $2X. The ONLY difference between the cables was the colors on the tips of the connectors!

Marketing!

I've seen one brand (RCA, I think) of 3-cable, 6-foot bundles where the "Video" set was $X, and the "Component" set was nearly $2X. The ONLY difference between the cables was the colors on the tips of the connectors!

This is not necessarily true - the bandwidth that the actual cables can transmit is different between composite video, RCA audio, and Component video. Back in the day when you'd buy the bundles of Video+LRAudio, the Video one would often be a bit thicker, that's because it actually is a different guage and impedence than the audio cables. Component cables are the highest bandwidth, and since they all use the same connector you can use component cables for anything, but not vice versa.

I'm not suggesting you buy into the monster cable shtick, it's completely bogus, but buying composite or RCA audio cables and using them as component video cable isn't advisable. Buy cheap cables which are meant for component, or you can always roll your own cables!

All three cables in the packs I saw were exactly the same gauge. Considering they're all 75-ohm impedance cables, it's all just marketing.

I completely agree with you on the cable issue. The thing that makes me laugh the most is the Monster premium fiber optic cable for digital audio. What do they think they can do, make the ones and zeros go faster?
FYI: All electrical signal transfer outside of a computer is performed with analog signals. No "ones" or "zeros" are being transmitted. The term "digital" refers to the content and format of the signal. So it goes likes this: digital --> transcoder ---> analog --> cable --> receiver/transcoder --> digital. Hint: Think about 2 modems "on steroids." The transcoding is robust so minor problems plaguing analog-type signals (like noise) do not affect the transmisssion. Severe interference, limited frequency bandwidth, etc. will affect the transmission. So the quality of the cable does matter but to a lesser extent than with pure analog signals.

Audioholics has published a number of good articles on their web site: Audio Principles (http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/index.php), but many of them are very technical in nature, i.e. not necessarily easy to understand. Frankly, I know less than I should about these things, but I got out of the field of electronics quite a while ago.

Mike

A FAR lesser extent than with pure analog signals. Not only that, if you start dropping bits, you won't get any lesser "quality" to the sound, you'll get dropouts. AC3 (Dolby Digital) and DTS carry their info in frames, which have error-detection built-in.

I fully agree on the digital-sound transmission.
According to the rip-off company, the error correction does not have to work as hard with their $100 fiberoptic cables... (Mine cost $5 or less).

I am not sure about the digital video.
Some people experienced a "sparklies" phenomenon with long HDMI cables and HDMI switches.

Mike

Long HDMI runs with unshielded cables would cause a corrupt data stream as it passes electrical noise. This is not an issue with optical runs. Optical cable is all digital, no way to put analog over light. As far as the bandwidth of component/composite cables, it really isn't that big of an issue. Yes you want to have mached lengths and impedences, but most component video runs at 100mhz or less (or at least that is the bandwidth availible on my Denon receiver). In some of my basic testing, if you use RG6 coax, you should be able to go 200-300 feet without a serious degridation in picture quality.

I bought a DVI-HDMI cable to use with my 6412 and an HDMI-HDMI for my 6416 for a total of $24 on EBAY (12 each)....if I went with "Monster" I'd be in the $100 range.

Also, you might just ask/demand the cables from Cox when you go in there. My neighbor did it and said, "If the box you give me requires those cables, then you are required to give me those cables if I'm paying for the service." And they gave him a HDMI-HDMI and a component set as well.


As far as quality of pic: I actually prefer the 6412 to the 6416. The HD channels look the same, but the SD and Analog channels look much better on the 6412. The 6416 has very sharp "jaggies" on the edges of objects/people..or moving images. We are even thinking about taking it back.

Oh, also, I would go to the Quail Hill office instead of the Santa Margarita one. QH was very courteous and no questions asked. The SM office I've been to two people and both were quite rude and I had to literally demand they trade my box. I wanted this one lady to look for a DVI-HDMI box (in the boxes that were right behind her on the counter) and she rolled her eyes and said, "That would be a lot of work for me sir. Those boxes are heavy." I could not believe it. :mad:

I've since called and complained and had a supervisor call me and apologize for their "lack" of professionalism.

......... Back in the day when you'd buy the bundles of Video+LRAudio, the Video one would often be a bit thicker, that's because it actually is a different guage and impedence than the audio cables. .......

I'm not suggesting you buy into the monster cable shtick, it's completely bogus, but buying composite or RCA audio cables and using them as component video cable isn't advisable. Buy cheap cables which are meant for component, or you can always roll your own cables!

All three cables in the packs I saw were exactly the same gauge. Considering they're all 75-ohm impedance cables, it's all just marketing.

Now it makes sense why the pricing on blue jeans cable for component cables is 3x the price for a "video" composite cable. With component cables, you basically get 3 video cables and of course with the right color connectors. Guess as long as you have the 3 'thick' cables rather than 1 video + 2 audio setup you can use the set for component.

As far as quality of pic: I actually prefer the 6412 to the 6416. The HD channels look the same, but the SD and Analog channels look much better on the 6412. The 6416 has very sharp "jaggies" on the edges of objects/people..or moving images. We are even thinking about taking it back. Seems like we are among the few to really notice this problem. The problem is the sharpness level is way too high on the 6416 for SD digital channels and I have to turn sharpness level to 0 on my TV for SD digital channels to look OK (not great, just OK). I still prefer the analog channels (as viewed with TV analog tuner) better than the digital simulcast versions overall, at least for my TV. Also the issue is very much TV dependant - some TVs probably deal with over-sharpness better than others. If I hookup my 27" tube to the 6416 via S-video the SD digital channels actually look pretty nice compared to hooking up the 6416 via S-video to my 30" LCD HDTV.

Looks like they added Showtime OnDemand. Hopefully the picture quality wont suffer because of this addition. I only see one movie listed though.

Seems like we are among the few to really notice this problem. The problem is the sharpness level is way too high on the 6416 for SD digital channels and I have to turn sharpness level to 0 on my TV for SD digital channels to look OK (not great, just OK). I still prefer the analog channels (as viewed with TV analog tuner) better than the digital simulcast versions overall, at least for my TV. Also the issue is very much TV dependant - some TVs probably deal with over-sharpness better than others. If I hookup my 27" tube to the 6416 via S-video the SD digital channels actually look pretty nice compared to hooking up the 6416 via S-video to my 30" LCD HDTV.


Yep. we got tired of the jaggs and went with a 6412. We have a 53" widescreen and it was just horrible. The 6412 is better, but I agree, ever since they went digital simulcast of the anaolg channels (2-74) they look even worse than before on the 6412. We now have to switch back and forth between our HDMI mode for SD channels and HD and back to TV mode for analog channels. But, it sucks if you need or want to record an analog channel on the DVR.

Somehow Cox continues to get worse instead of better. Well, at least for big screen tv owners.

Ahhh, can't wait till everything is in HD and I don't have to flip back and forth all the time.

Looks like they added Showtime OnDemand. Hopefully the picture quality wont suffer because of this addition. I only see one movie listed though.Great! Hopefully soon I can catch up on the 2nd season of Huff.

So most are saying that the new Digital Simulcast channels are worse?

I hope people are calling in Tickets? (calling Cox and making sure you get a ticket work order number to have it fixed).

Us in the other Cox Markets are watching. Orange County is the first. If Cox gets away with Bad Pic Quality they will just do the same type of roll out to the other cities.

I wonder if the problem is they are putting WAY TO MANY CHANNELs QAM Channels on a Analog channel for Digital Simulcasting?

Dishnetwork and Direct TV do the same thing for there transponders, till people start complaining then they put it back, almost like they try to put in as many channels as the can to see what the breaking point is for complaints.

I wonder if the problem is they are putting WAY TO MANY CHANNELs QAM Channels on a Analog channel for Digital Simulcasting? No I don't think that's it - there's only 10 simulcast channels per carrier channel right now, though I do expect that will have to be increased to accomodate all the remaining simulcast channels still missing. Traditionally for other SD digital channels there are typically 15 or so crammed in there. The problem seems partly related to over-sharpness and depends largely on how your TV deals with it. I wouldn't say the general consensus is that the simulcast channels are worse than analog, certainly not when viewed through the DCT boxes. However I haven't heard from anyone in this forum stating that they look much better than before either so that's not encouraging. I would have expected some with poor analog channel reception (poor wiring or too many splits) to notice an improvement. For me I worked pretty hard in the past to optimize analog channel quality and it's hard to beat a good quality analog channel which doesn't suffer from mpeg compression artifacts.

I live in Ladera Ranch and am taking delivery of a new Samsung 50" DLP HLS5088W (when available....it will accept 1080p over HDMI). I've been with DirecTV (standard definition) for four or five years and have no complaints. I was all set to get my HD package (5LNB dish and HR10-250 receiver/DVR) when I did a little research and found quite a few people whom are dissapointed in the signal/feed from DirecTV. Any of you switch from DirecTV to Cox? Is the cable feed any better/worse? I'll be watching mostly HD programming, but also some SD stuff.

Thanks for the help.

Mike

I live in Ladera Ranch and am taking delivery of a new Samsung 50" DLP HLS5088W (when available....it will accept 1080p over HDMI). I've been with DirecTV (standard definition) for four or five years and have no complaints. I was all set to get my HD package (5LNB dish and HR10-250 receiver/DVR) when I did a little research and found quite a few people whom are dissapointed in the signal/feed from DirecTV. Any of you switch from DirecTV to Cox? Is the cable feed any better/worse? I'll be watching mostly HD programming, but also some SD stuff.

Thanks for the help.

Mike For HD programming available OTA Cox is just passing along the same signal. There is a little bitrate shaping but the resolution is identical and the bitrate is very close to the OTA broadcast so it looks equivalent to OTA reception. I haven't really looked at ESPNHD and some of the others that presumably Cox is receiving via satellite but I would presume it also passes those along as is as well and ESPNHD looks very nice. So certainly for local channels Cox HD will be better than DirecTV. Can't comment on SD digital as I have never had DirecTV but overall I don't think SD digital from Cox OC looks that good.

Looks like there are 4 more TEST channels. I was wishing at least one would be a new HD channel but after viewing them I found they are just more Digital Simulcast channels. Animal Planet, BET, CNN Headline News, and MSN NBC.

According to a Cox representative (unsure of the credibility) there will be no additional HD channels for awhile, and not until all the simulcasting is complete.

Thanks for the info. I guess thats a good thing anyway. With only so much bandwidth to go around I would hate to see COX offer more HD channels but in HD-LITE. That is the main reason why I haven't emailed COX lately with HD channel requests.

Cox does not own the equipment to do HD Lite like Dishnetwork and Direct TV are doing.

It is a very different and very expensive box than what Cox is using at the Master Head End.

So we are all safe for a long time, so going ahead and request your channels, it cant hurt, they probably think we are all happy with the HD we have now.

The Cost model is different with Direct TV and Dish, they can buy the very expensive hardware to do the HD-Lite down converison, and it will serverthe 10 Million plus customers when they sub to HD. All with one box per HD Channel.

With Cable they have to buy one Box per Master head end PER CITY, they would have to double there rates to afford it. So we are for sure safe from HD Lite for a few years on cable.

I have found that the analog noise is gone on all the simulcast channels, obviously, and the colortone is better overall. However, in high-motion content the macroblocks really get to me.
On the flipside, that means I can fit way more content on the PVR since the shows take up about 60% of the space when they're digital simulcast vs. analog.

So I'm kinda torn... most of the stuff that my house watches isn't high motion stuff - food network, discovery channel, ABC Family, and comedy central. I'd say its most noticable on Discovery since you get sparks flying and explosions a bit more often than the other stations. So 95% of the time it's a marginally nicer picture. But that 5% of the time it looks awful.
I wouldn't mind the digital channels if they just used more than 3MBit streams =\

Cox does not own the equipment to do HD Lite like Dishnetwork and Direct TV are doing.

It is a very different and very expensive box than what Cox is using at the Master Head End.

So we are all safe for a long time, so going ahead and request your channels, it cant hurt, they probably think we are all happy with the HD we have now.

The Cost model is different with Direct TV and Dish, they can buy the very expensive hardware to do the HD-Lite down converison, and it will serverthe 10 Million plus customers when they sub to HD. All with one box per HD Channel.

With Cable they have to buy one Box per Master head end PER CITY, they would have to double there rates to afford it. So we are for sure safe from HD Lite for a few years on cable.


Thats great news. Thanks for the info. Guess I will be requesting some HD channels soon and breathing a sigh of relief in the meantime.

Just got my plasma (panny 50px60 :D )

I have a moto 6412 connected via component. I realize if I view the channels below 700 that I'll get 4:3 material, so do I use "full", "h-fill", or "just" when viewing these channels? If I view the HD channels (700+) I'll probably use "full" but I guess when 4:3 material is broadcast I'll get sidebars - correct?

If anyone here has similar equipment I'd appreciate some tips/hints for optimizing the picture.


Also, when I get time, it was suggested i get the 6416. Are there any disadvantage of the 6416 vs the 6412? reading some of the previous posts seem to indicate there were problems but don't know if the posters had worked the issues out.

Well, after 2-3 weeks of my DVR not being able to download TV Guide On Screen data through my digital cable box, sometime between Wed 4/27 & Thur 4/28, the data became available again! Woo hoo! :D

Anya

:mad: Nevermind. Lost the TVGOS signal again a couple of weeks ago.

REALLY frustrating.

4 more simulcast added since last check (43,45,48,72), the TEST channels Rock pointed out above:
DIGITAL SIMULCAST CHANNELS (46 out of 72 analog channels total using 5 RF channels)
06=KCET 10=KOCE 12=KDOC 13=KCOP 14=CNN
15=ESPN 16=ESPN2 17=FX 18=TNT 19=FAMILY
20=DISNEY 21=DISC 22=USA 23=CSPAN 25=KAZA
27=TBS 28=WGN 29=KWHY 32=KXLA 34=KMEX
35=KSCI 36=KVEA 40=KTBN 41=KRCA 42=KFTR
43=MSNBC 44=CNBC 45=HEADLINE 46=FOXNEWS 47=GALAVISION
48=BET 49=MTV 53=TRAVEL 54=HEALTH 55=BRAVO
56=TV FOOD 57=HGTV 58=LIFE 59=E! 63=FSNET2
64=FSNET 67=A&E 70=NICK 71=TOON 72=ANIMAL
73=TLC
My guess is once simulcast additions are completed and things stabilize that Cox will start offering digital only (with no encoders) boxes like the 3412,3416, etc.

I have found that the analog noise is gone on all the simulcast channels, obviously, and the colortone is better overall. However, in high-motion content the macroblocks really get to me.
On the flipside, that means I can fit way more content on the PVR since the shows take up about 60% of the space when they're digital simulcast vs. analog.

So I'm kinda torn... most of the stuff that my house watches isn't high motion stuff - food network, discovery channel, ABC Family, and comedy central. I'd say its most noticable on Discovery since you get sparks flying and explosions a bit more often than the other stations. So 95% of the time it's a marginally nicer picture. But that 5% of the time it looks awful.
I wouldn't mind the digital channels if they just used more than 3MBit streams =\

What type of TV do you have? I am curious because I don't see any macroblocking on my current digital channels on my set, but at a buddies house I see them. We both live in the same system and have the same DVR box. His set is one of those thing LCD types and mine is one of those old school huge CRT rear projection sets.

I have a front projection system (NEC LT240K) which is an XGA DLP system. On a rear-projection CRT I wouldn't be surprised if the Macroblocking wasn't visible. On a 10ft-diagonal digital display though they're all over the place during high motion.

My set is a 57" and my buddies is a 42", even though my set is bigger, I don't see the macroblocking, where he does on his "Cute Little TV". Gets mad when I say that, he paid more too.

Probably because his is producing a sharper, more accurate picture. That could be why he sees the Macroblocks and you don't :p

Probably because his is producing a sharper, more accurate picture. That could be why he sees the Macroblocks and you don't :p
Yeah, I was gonna post that, too- then figured "what he doesn't know(/see) won't hurt him". :)

Probably because his is producing a sharper, more accurate picture. That could be why he sees the Macroblocks and you don't :p Exactly, standard definition (analog & digital) generally looks much better on my old 27" CRT than on my 30" LCD but only because it is hiding a lot of the defects inherent to the signal. This has always been the case dating back several years when I first started viewing recorded TV mpeg2 video on my laptop monitor - even though it was a smaller monitor it looked worse than on the much bigger CRT. In fact I generally will only use the LCD HDTV for high definition viewing - I use my ReplayTVs and CRT TVs for SD viewing. From what I have seen HD looks much crisper and cleaner on LCDs compared to CRTs when the source HD is good. Of course there is a lot of crappy HD being spit out (NBC for instance is generally horrible I find) and LCD again exposes mpeg2 limitations more than CRT.

How is the picture quality of Cox vs. DirecTV on SD?

I just got a 42" DLP and it's a little brutal on DirecTV stuff, especially SD. Cox has a decent deal running for satellite subscribers that runs through 5/31.

Thanks,
b

How is the picture quality of Cox vs. DirecTV on SD?
I just got a 42" DLP and it's a little brutal on DirecTV stuff, especially SD. Cox has a decent deal running for satellite subscribers that runs through 5/31. Too subjective for an objective answer... best thing is to try it and judge for yourself. Personally I'm not at all impressed by SD picture quality and actually prefer the SD analog channels to the SD digital ones, but I've never had DirecTV to compare against.

I have to disagree with you guys. The 30" CRT set that I have also does not show the macroblocking, like the 42" LCD does. I think that the issue is how fast the image is redrawn. I think that it is just too slow on the LCD.

I have always heard that the better the television the more demanding of a good signal and source it requires.

I have been watching almost all of my television on a small SD set lately and the digital channels look phenominal compared to what they look like on my 34" Sony KV-34XBR910 HDTV.

On my Sony non HD channels look horrid. Although I rarely see macroblocking on them. One of the rare channels that I see this on a regular basis is E!. The video cant seem to handle the constant flashes from cameras and becomes unwatchable. In fact, E! is unwatchable anyway. But that is judging it solely by its content.


Thankfully I finally got my large Sony back from repair. It took a month. I almost missed all of the NBA playoffs. There is really nothing like watching a good HD program on that large screen after dealing with SD for a month. I bash them often but I must admit the Baseball game I watched on INHD was stunning. But to be fare they have always done well with sports. Its movies were they suck a$$.

I have to disagree with you guys. The 30" CRT set that I have also does not show the macroblocking, like the 42" LCD does. I think that the issue is how fast the image is redrawn. I think that it is just too slow on the LCD.

No Macroblocks have nothing to do with refresh rate, and you're just corroborating moyekj's point - CRT's hide the defects inherent in the signal. You have two CRTs, they both don't show macroblocks as much, whereas your friend's LCD does. This just helps to confirms moyekj's supposition.

CRTs do in general produce less sharp details in a picture. They do, however, provide excellent color (in direct-view CRT sets, anyway) and can be natively interlaced displays, unlike all digital displays (LCD, DLP, LCoS, etc). This can really help hide defects in a signal.

Hello,
I've just done an interesting test on a new Motorola 6416 box. I had my TV display the HDMI and component outputs from the box simultaneously using picture in picture mode. It is very interesting to compare the two.

The HDMI output has a very pale, almost whitewashed appearance. The component, although not as sharp as HDMI, appears to have a much more accurate color representation with higher overall saturation than the HDMI output. I did this comparison on a new Westinghouse 37" LCD monitor. Is this what everybody else has noticed? Do you think it is just a software problem that can be fixed with an update, or is it a hardware shortcoming of these new boxes?

Hello,
I've just done an interesting test on a new Motorola 6416 box. I had my TV display the HDMI and component outputs from the box simultaneously using picture in picture mode. It is very interesting to compare the two.

The HDMI output has a very pale, almost whitewashed appearance. The component, although not as sharp as HDMI, appears to have a much more accurate color representation with higher overall saturation than the HDMI output. I did this comparison on a new Westinghouse 37" LCD monitor. Is this what everybody else has noticed? Do you think it is just a software problem that can be fixed with an update, or is it a hardware shortcoming of these new boxes? Yes, in this very thread I have pointed out that HDMI output is over-saturated. The contrast is much better via Component and that is what I am using. I read in another thread that one problem with HDMI is the black levels don't start at 0 but at 16 and it's very apparent with this box that blacks are nowhere close to real black. DVI is actually a more robust interface for video and supports more formats - only HDMI 1.3 or later even support 1080p sources. With my old phase 2 box the DVI connection was better than component, but with the phase 3 boxes I much prefer component. The other problem with 6416 hardware that is very apparent to me is SD digital sharpness level is way too high as I have also pointed out in this thread.

My point is that what you see may NOT actually be macroblocking, rather than a refresh or encoding issue within the TV itself rather than having anything to do with the cable signal or cable box. If there are halos arround all of the shapes, and when an object or person moves and it looks like the mouse tracer setting is on, but I plug the same box into a different set and it doesn't do that it points to the set, not the box. I think that while a lot of these tv's cost a ton of money, they aren't as good as they should be for the money.

I am having problems with firewire recording. I recently had to unplug all of the components for my entertainment center and ever since I have been having issues recording with firewire. All of the HD channels record fine except for HBOHD 700 and SHOHD 740. When I try to record those channels the files come out blank.

I have tested all of the other HD channels and they record flawlessly.

I unplugged the firewire cable and made sure it was connected well. I then uninstalled the drivers from my computer and then restarted. I followed the instructions from http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/index.html and reinstalled the items. I then tried to record again. Still no luck on HBOHD and SHOHD. I doubt this is something on my end if only those two channels are unrecordable.

Did COX put copy protection on those channels? Many felt this day would come but it sucks non the less. The final thing I am going to do is reset my cable box. I am recording something now so I cant do it right away. Anyone else having problems recording HBOHD and SHOHD through firewire?

Check if 5C=1 as outlined in my guide you linked to. My guess is 5C is enabled on those as you are lucky didn't happen a long time ago. Don't subscribe to premiums so can't check myself. I don't think it's Cox that puts the protection flag in but the content providers.

Well ****. After resetting my box it still wasn't able to record HBOHD or SHOHD. I then took the steps you illustrated to see what the 5c said. The 5C IMPLEMENTATION value is now 1. I will be calling COX tomorrow(actually later today) to complain. I believe they tried to implement this sometime in the past and after some phone calls they changed things back. Hopefully that will be the case this time also.

Well I called just now and it seems like they did in fact enable the 5c protection on those channels. The tech didn't have any specific information but she said "they vary well may have turned it on". Although she hadn't heard anything about it.

I wasn't forceful about my rights to record the show and make a copy on this call. I might be more forceful in the future after I look at all the facts. I was always lead to believe you can legally make a recording of any program. As long as its for personal use I dont see the problem in archiving a movie.

Guess I will be hitting the newsgroups or bittorent sites for HD shows from HBO and SHO. HD movies seem to be a bit harder to find unfortunately. I should be able to find the popular ones (Star Wars 3, Batman Begins, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, Be Cool, etc....) but I am probably screwed on lesser known titles. Either way COX is going to pay in the long run (constant downloads of several gigs).

My TV is still having problems and now this. Not the best way to start the summer.

If any of you guys know the law/rules please call and complain. I would be very grateful.


More info... It appears that the SD movie channels also have the 5c enabled. All of the HBO, SHO, and Starz channels I tested (not all of them) had it enabled. This is really lame. How can this be allowed? I pay a shitload of money for these channels and I cant even record them anymore?!

TheRock, as I said it's the content providers like Viacom that define what the copy protections are and the cable companies should simply pass them along. Not sure why the flags were not set before on these channels but it's likely somebody clued up and Cox was forced to pass them along. Note that 5C=1 actually means copy once, and if you had a DVHS recorder you would still be able to copy them digitally via firewire - the Windows XP hack can't deal with it. Also note that you can still record these channels via the analog outputs of the DCT - of course they are pretty lousy quality recordings that way but it works.

I'm not saying I agree with or am happy with all the DRM, but in this case I wouldn't place all the blame squarely on Cox. Most Comcast markets have not been able to record any of these premium channels via firewire for a long time if ever.

Thanks for the info.

With so many smart people around I would think someone would be able to set up a program on the computer that would allow it to record anything. Guess 5c is a protection that hasn't been totally hacked yet.

I just hope they dont use this on other HD channels. Like I said before. I pay a shitload of money for these channels. I should be able to make a copy if I want. Guess I should just be happy I had it for so long.

Does anyone know if Verizon's FIOS has any type of firewire recording ability? It isn't available in my area but hopefully someday it will be. I haven't researched it much but from what I have heard it sounds fantastic. Both the HDTV/SD picture quality and also the internet speeds.

I just hope they dont use this on other HD channels. Like I said before. I pay a shitload of money for these channels. I should be able to make a copy if I want. Guess I should just be happy I had it for so long. At bare minimum the HD local channels (and now the SD digital simulcast local channels) by FCC mandate cannot be encrypted/copy protected so those should always work. If those are ever blocked/encrypted in some way then we would have a real beef with Cox for sure.

i'm using a Voom receiver + outdoor antenna to pick up local OTA channels, but for some reason, I cannot receive all the locals. Here is a sample of what I get -

channel / signal strength
5-1 / 96
5-5 / 96
56-1 / 93
34-1 / 93
4-1 / 92
9-1 / 87

the channels i am interested in that don't even show up are 2, 7, and 11. Anyone have an idea why i cannot even see these channels appear on my list? I would assume that if i can get the other local channels at good strength, i should be able to pick up 2, 7, and 11.

You probably need an amplified antenna. I'm using a cheap ($20) indoor amplified antenna I got at Lowe's on 2nd floor of a south Mission Viejo home with the antenna in front of a window facing slightly North of West and pick up many channels at 90-100% signal strength. All the ones you list above come in very strong for me. If I turn off amplification (there's gain control on the antenna) then pretty much nothing comes in with good signal strength.

Receiving channels over the air with an antenna is very weird. They all come from the same place (MT Wilson) but the signal strength can be drastically different. It sounds like you need to pull out the ladder and spend some time on your roof. Experimenting with the direction the antenna is pointed is probably needed. Its crazy how much a half inch means when it comes to be able to receive channels.

I still havent found my sweet spot. I can receive almost all of the channels I want. UPN isnt consistent though. CBS is the biggest problem. It doesnt matter were I point my antenna I cant receive it. Its weird because that used to be a channel I could receive with a small radio shack indoor antenna. I guess I need to go on my roof again and adjust things. It really helps if you have another person helping you. Making a slight change and then having to climb down the ladder and check the result is a real pain.


On an unrelated topic....

I noticed there are 4 more TEST channels. None of them are viewable but I did find something interesting. Test channel 850 says "Subscription Service" and is in blue. 851,852, and 853 say "Temporarily Off Air" and is in green. Hopefully that means that 850 is a new HD channel. Or even better the later three are new HD channels. In the end they are probably just more digital simulcast channels though.

How do you find these "TEST" Channels?

I have a MythTV Linux DVR system setup that can scan my system. Is this what you see on the screen or is this the header information in the stream?

When looking at the guide listings for HD channels I sometimes scroll down to see if any more channels are added. The TEST channels are in the 800's and come after ABC7 PLUS 807 and before the Music channels. I see those messages when I try and tune the box to those channels.

Bloody hell. The dominos keep on falling. It appears that ShowtimeHD now has a logo. June has not started out well.

Was wondering why I couldn't cap anything this week. Damm. Color me pissed.

The box does not have to interface with a computer at all. The box could refuse a connection with any device that does not comply with HDCP spec. That would restrict copying from the box to a legitimate HDCP device such as a HD VCR. I don't think we can get anywhere in trying to capture HBO onto a PC.

Anybody else's DVR reboot itself tonight at 9:00pm? Just as Last Comic Standing was starting to record the box rebooted itself. The fact that it happened at 9:00pm on the dot suggests it was a planned event - not a good time for it to happen however. There was no firmware/software update to go along with it... So I also checked EOD (which I hardly ever look at) and didn't notice any change there either - the same slow & crappy interface.

No simulcast additions or new test channels or any other noticeable change... hmm.

EDIT: Actually looks like there was a pretty big change...
A new (previously unused) RF channel 90 (621MHz) has been added with 8 new simulcast channels - 3 of them unencrypted: KNBC, KABC, KCAL.
None of them are mapped yet via digital box (i.e. those channels are still analog when you tune them with your digital set top).

all of my channels have "no data" .. it started when i was forwarding the week to see what to record and today was when the no data was scheduled for and here it is..

when do i get my normal channels back?

I also seem to have suffered from the no data problem. I missed a recording because of this. The info was there when I set my dvr to record it. Odd. I seem to have all the current guide info for things now.

I am still trying to figure out what to say to COX to try and get them to change the 5c back to 0. I really miss recording movies. One thing I found odd was I was able to record a show from Showtime that I had saved on my dvr. Guess the info is in the files themselves and not the channel. It was an older recording. I was hoping I could do a trick were I recorded the show from the dvr and give CapDVHS a great deal of extra time to record the live program after it finished. Unfortunately it didn't work. It recorded the first 2-4 frames and then went dead. I also found it odd that ShowtimeHD and HBOHD sometimes gave false info when I checked the 5c setting. Several times it read 0 but when I tried to record it didnt work. When I checked back it was at 1 again.

meant2live, I would suggest you force a guide update by holding down the guide button on the panel or reboot the machine by holding down the power button.

I also seem to have suffered from the no data problem. I missed a recording because of this. The info was there when I set my dvr to record it. Odd. I seem to have all the current guide info for things now.

I am still trying to figure out what to say to COX to try and get them to change the 5c back to 0. I really miss recording movies. One thing I found odd was I was able to record a show from Showtime that I had saved on my dvr. Guess the info is in the files themselves and not the channel. It was an older recording. I was hoping I could do a trick were I recorded the show from the dvr and give CapDVHS a great deal of extra time to record the live program after it finished. Unfortunately it didn't work. It recorded the first 2-4 frames and then went dead. I also found it odd that ShowtimeHD and HBOHD sometimes gave false info when I checked the 5c setting. Several times it read 0 but when I tried to record it didnt work. When I checked back it was at 1 again.


It's not Cox who sets the 5c it's HBO.

ajwees41