Just in case there are any non-vocal Bozeman residents lurking on the boards... here's a summary of what I've found out regarding high definition brodcasts in our great little town.

After emails failed, I finally gave in and called all of our local stations... I haven't heard back from NBC yet because I was referred to their Missoula parent station for HD info. I left a message for someone there but I really don't have high hopes of getting a return call. If you're familiar with the Bozeman stations you'll know that NBC has the worst transmitter which seems to indicate a lack of desire to upgrade anytime soon. I'll call back and update this message soon.

Another note: we don't have a local FOX station, which isn't too big of a deal because FOX just now announced their intention to convert to HDTV. Maybe by 2004 we'll have a local affiliate

First off, some good news:

I talked to an engineer at our CBS affiliate who told me that they'd be broadcasting in high definition around the September timeframe of this year (2003)! That's fantastic news since CBS has a nice set of HD programs. Their (new?) tower is going up on some mountain between Bozeman and Livingston... I'm sure people who have been here longer than I have would know what mountain it is, but I failed to write it down.

I also received a call back from our PBS affiliate who told me that they, too, are placing their new tower on that same mountain and should be broadcasting in the next few months. They have all the equipment either on order or in-house, they're just waiting on construction of their new site.

On to the bad news:

I talked with the station manager of our ABC affiliate who said that they're already broadcasting in digital in Butte. Since the FCC considers Butte our market area, they're already "legal" in their eyes. To make things worse, he said that there's a freeze on new transmitters so he's not sure if or when they'd get something new in Bozeman. That's kind of a bummer. I asked if I could get the Butte signal from here and he said nope, not the way the signal's pointing.

[space reserved for depressing NBC information as soon as I get it.]

One glimmer of hope, though, is that the ABC station manager heard that Bresnan Cable (who just bought out ATT Cable in Bozeman) is planning a big expansion. I asked if they were considering putting their digital signal on cable and he said he wasn't sure about what Bresnan's doing but that it's definitely a possibility.

So that's all I know for now. I'm going to call Bresnan cable and see if they'll let me in on any of their expansion plans, and I'll also follow up with NBC (keep your fingers crossed).

I'll update this thread with any new information, or you can check my personal web site: http://www.haslup.com/index.cgi/hdtv/

jason

Well, it's September, the new shows have started, and it's time for a Bozeman HDTV update...

CBS isn't up yet, but I haven't called them to find out what their schedule is. To be fair, they did say around September, so although I was tempted to call them on September 1st, I resisted. And now it's 9/25 and I still haven't called them... October 1st is right around the corner.

On to some unexpected good news... last night I tuned in to The West Wing premier and on a whim decided to try something I had seen in TitanTV's listing -- the Butte NBC digital channel. I had my Sony scan for digital channels on channel 33 and lo and behold, channel 6.1 popped up on my display and all of a sudden I was watching The West Wing in glorious digital SDTV.

Yes, not high definition, but I gotta tell ya, it's 10 times better than the crappy signal I was getting from Bozeman's repeater (or whatever they use) on channel 42.

Something worthy of noting is that TitanTV is actually smart enough to know that our Digital NBC isn't broadcasting in high definition yet... none of the shows have the hdtv logo. However, I'm thrilled to even have the digital broadcast because that's one step closer to high definition than our other channels have made, although I expect our CBS to leapfrog our NBC once their tower is up.

I did try the Butte ABC digital channel, and it looked like my Sony was trying to pick up the digital channel that's there, but it couldn't get the signal. I'm not sure if a bigger antenna would help... TitanTV's front-end to antenna web suggested that I use an 88-inch beast up on my roof, but I'm not sure I can sneak that one by the wife. I have a powered radio-shack omni-directional (the one that looks like a 14-inch UFO) on my two-story, elavated maybe five additional feet on a mast. The signal quality of KTVM-DT is just above 'normal' on my Sony HD-200 (I think that's the model -- the Sony DirecTV HD receiver).

That's it so far... other interesting news is that Bresnan cable is rolling out cable modem this year... maybe they'll stick some high definition local channels on their system after that...? It's just nice to see infrastructure upgrades...

jason

Hi Jason,

SO what is the latest on OTA HD reception in MT? Is it just the national broadcasters content that you can access? Are any of the local stations transmitting news or other content in HD or SD?

Thx

Hi!

Unfortunately not much has changed since my last update... I haven't actually emailed anyone lately, but it seems like everyone's a bit late in rolling out HD.

The CBS station hasn't started broadcasting, but the last I heard was that they're hoping to get going before The Masters (April?). I'll probably email them soon about that.

NBC in Butte is still only broadcasting in digital, not HD. They were supposed to be doing actual HD by the end of 2003, but it doesn't appear to have happened. I still get their signal in Bozeman off and on. I haven't heard anything about their Bozeman tower... I should probably email them, as well.

Bresnan cable has rolled out Cablemodem, which is nice, but no updates on them rolling out HD stations. I suspect it's not a high priority for them.

And yeah -- it's all going to be national feeds only... I bet it will be a while until we see local HD stuff.

Once I hear more I'll post it here!

jason

Hi folks,

Just wanted to report that tonight I noticed our local Bozeman CBS affiliate is broadcasting in high definition. I'm watching Navy NCIS in full 1080i as I type. I don't believe they have DD 5.1 sound, though, but maybe it's just this program.

It also looks like they're broadcasting an additional signal (7.2) that's a stretched version of their non-HD 7.1 programming. I guess you get the choice of black bars or stretched.

Good timing with the NCAA finals and The Masters!

jason

Keeping the thread alive for the throng of Bozeman residents...

The local PBS station was broadcasting in full HDTV over the weekend on channel 8.3. Only watched a bit of it, but I thought it looked great. Doesn't seem like there's programming all the time, but that might be the way it is with PBS?

CBS is still going strong... Masters was nice but I wish we had DD 5.1 sound.

jason

Any updates on this? I'm about to move back to bozeman with my new HDTV.

Nothing really new, unfortunately... CBS and PBS are still going, but our NBC affiliate hasn't started up that I've seen. I still get Butte's NBC broadcast every now and then, but it doesn't appear to be in HD, just digital.

I think I'll email the NBC guy I was talking with last fall... he might have an update. I"ll post any reply I get.

jason

ps... PBS is actually on 9.1, not 8.3 like my previous post.

Update: heard back from the NBC guy... I gotta first say that Charlie has been really helpful. Anytime I've emailed him I get the most detailed and completely honest responses. I really appreciate it.

Anyhow, more good news/bad news: Good news for Butte: they'll have the Olympics in high definition and most likely dolby digital.

Bad news for Bozeman: we won't. They're actually working on an experimental thing where they'd receive the Butte broadcast by an antenna and then re-broadcast it to Bozeman. The problem now, though, is that there's a new station in Bozeman on channel 32 that's currently messing up their receiving of Butte's channel 33. If they can filter that out, though, we still have to wait 60-90 days for the actual Bozeman transmitter.

So that's it for Bozeman... I haven't checked in with ABC lately, but last year it didn't seem like they were too interested in HD for Bozeman. It might be time for another call with them, I suppose... Monday Night Football would be nice in HD.

jason

Well thats good to hear we might be getting NBC HDTV, although i would prefer to have abc in hd rather than NBC, especially for Monday Night Football. Jason thanks for all the research and info, hopefully we'll have some more good news soon.

Well I just got moved into my new place at bozeman just off the MSU campus and hooked up my equipment. I get the pbs hd channels and they look amazing. Unfortunately I can't seem to get the cbs hdtv signal. Any chance you would know where the tower is broadcasting from? Thanks

Hi,

Yep, the tower's between Bozeman and Livingston... but it's the same tower as the PBS station (according to the CBS guy), so that's weird. Channel 13, right? (7.1) I think it's 13... it's definitely VHF, that's for sure (not near my TV right now).

I'm using a Radio Shack powered omni-directional antenna on my roof... it gets CBS and PBS great, but not so good with local NBC or ABC (SD, not HD).

Just for grins try channel 33 (6.1) at night to see if you pull in Butte's NBC :)

jason

This is now the Official thread for Missoula/Butte/Bozeman/Helena.

Can anyone summarize the HD available in these markets?

I just rescanned my for hdtv stations and to my surpise I found a new one. Apparently the local NBC station KTVM has begun broadcastiong in HD. It comes up as 6.1 on my tv.

Here's the skinny as of 02/20/05:

KTVM 6.1, HDTV, DD 5.1 when the programming is broadcast in it.

Their signal had some real problems, but the last couple of days the situation is much improved. It seems like they are rebroadcasting the Missoula station though since the news isn't localized for Bozeman.

KUSM 8.1, 8.2 HDTV on 8.1, nothing on 8.2.

8.2 is supposed to be PBS Kids.

KBZK 13.1 Nothing.

These guys have been saying that they would be on the air for ages. They obviously aren't taking things very seriously. Occasionally they do have a signal, but don't seem to be broadcasting anything. I need to contact their engineer.

I live in the middle of town and am using an pre-amped pair of rabbit ears.

--John

Update as of 2/3/05:

KBZK is on 7.1 and 7.2. 7.1 is HD and 7.2 is stretch-o-vision.
KTVM is on 6.1 in HD, but the signal is intermittent.
KUSM is on 8.1 in HD.

I still don't know what 13.1 is, perhaps KWYB. It shows up as black sometimes, as no signal othertimes. No programming has been seen. I'm trying to get in touch with KWYB, but they don't seem to want to talk to viewers.

KWYB does not have any timetable for getting their signal up. BOOOO!

I live in Bozeman and recently upgraded my DirecTV receiver to the HD Tivo (HR10-250). I can no longer receive the NBC (6-1) HD channel like I could with the non-Tivo DirecTV receiver. Does anyone else in Bozeman have this receiver?

When I use the off-satellite antenna signal tester I get a good signal for channel 34. But I can't seem to get it added to the guide. My guess is that the 6-1 channel from Butte is overriding the Bozeman 6-1 or something.

Griff,

I just upgraded today, and i can stil get NBC, CBS, and PBS. Picture looks better, the guide is a bit slow, but that doesn't matter when you can watch great HD shows anytime you want.

My wish now is that the programming guide would have our OTA channel information. Butte and Bozeman being in the same DMA really screws us here in Bozeman when all the programming information in the guide is for Butte.

Any information about Missoula? Researching for my mom who is about to get a new plasma and I'm wondering what her options are.

I called Bresnan and the CSR I talked to claimed that they wouldn't have HD locals until 2007. Looking at TitanTV it seems that at least CBS and NBC are broadcasting in HD locally...can anyone confirm? What sort of antennae have you used?

--chris

I recently got an antenna at radioshack, an indoor model. Im located at the base of the South Hills, and was able to pick up NBC, PBS, and CBS in HD, and was using the antenna in the basement.

Thanks very much for the info! If I can avoid climbing up to the roof, that's a big plus. :)

I recently got an antenna at radioshack, an indoor model. Im located at the base of the South Hills, and was able to pick up NBC, PBS, and CBS in HD, and was using the antenna in the basement.

I'm about 100 feet or so in elevation above SW Higgins avenue and have a clear shot at the anntennas for ABC, CBS & NBC near Snow Bowl and The PBS site on Dean Stone is right behind me and much closer. I get the three broadcast channels from SB on rabbit ears, but am unable to pull in PBS as I'm "shooting" the directional antenna through the house.

CBS PQ is much better than the other two and, come to think of it, I've never actually seen HD on the ABC channel.

I'll probably mount some kind of outdoor UHF antenna on the East or South side of the house and join that into the rabbit ears.

Tom

According to TitanTV, only CBS and NBC are broadcasting hi-def; PBS and ABC are digital SD.

I'm not so familiar with the area...if someone lives near-ish to downtown (say, a few blocks from Rockin' Rudy's), do you think rabbit-ears will grab CBS and NBC?

--chris

Here's another question...I see that Bresnan now claims to offer HDTV. Anyone know what local channels they offer in Missoula? Also, does anyone know if you can pull them in via a QAM-capable HDTV? In theory they are not supposed to require that you get a digital box or whatever, but...

According to TitanTV, only CBS and NBC are broadcasting hi-def; PBS and ABC are digital SD.

I'm not so familiar with the area...if someone lives near-ish to downtown (say, a few blocks from Rockin' Rudy's), do you think rabbit-ears will grab CBS and NBC?

--chris

I'm told by the engineer at the local station that they are broadcasting HD 100% of the time, but can't get it yet to see! As for a near Rocking Rudy's location, as long as you have an unobstructed view of the Snowbowl area rabbit ears should be OK. If not you might have to get a UHF/VHF antenna that is more sophisticated designed for obstructed paths. (NBC is broadcasting in VHF)

Here's another question...I see that Bresnan now claims to offer HDTV. Anyone know what local channels they offer in Missoula? Also, does anyone know if you can pull them in via a QAM-capable HDTV? In theory they are not supposed to require that you get a digital box or whatever, but...

Bresnan currently broadcasts local CBS only in HD and a couple of cable shows. Not worth the money in my opinion. If you have a QAM-capable HDTV (I have a 42" Vizio Plasma) you can get anything posted over the air (OTA) and, as I've said, I get it with rabbit ears.

Tom

Thanks VERY much. Just being able to pull in CBS with a QAM-capable TV would be a nice plus, but I'll probably also explore the rabbit ears.

Thanks again!

Just subscribed to Missoula HDTV with Bresnan. I'll pick up the receiver wednesday, so I'll find out how things look. As of right now, this is what we have in Missoula:

706 KUSM-D (PBS)
710 KPAX-D (Local CBS affiliate)
755 DHDTV (Discovery)
779 NFL-HD (NFL)
785 UHD (No idea what this is)
786 TNT-HD (TNT)
787 ESPN-HD (ESPN)
788 HDNet
789 HDNMV (Not sure what this is)
790 HBO-HD

785 UHD (No idea what this is)
That is Universal HD (http://www.universalhd.com/).
789 HDNMV (Not sure what this is)
That is HDNet Movies (http://www.hd.net/movies_schedule_sevenday.html), a sister channel to HDNet.

OK, that makes sense. Thanks Chris.

FYI the missoula PBS is broadcasting in 1080i at least according to my hdtv - and it looks it - very nice. My problem is that I live up Pattee Canyon and Antenna Web lists PBS as my only digital channel. Fox and PBS transmit from Dean Stone - so I can also get Fox but Fox does not broadcast in HD. I get PBS with an indoor antenna with a signal strenghth of about 80%. Fox is analog and much weaker.

The others (ABC, CBS, NBC) all broadcast from Snow Bowl (point 6) which is about 30 miles or so from me. The problem however is that I'm on the back side of a mountain that blocks the signal.

Questions for all you experts:

1. When is Fox switching to an digital signal? I can't seem to find any info on this topic.
2. Anyone here know if it is possible to get ABC, CBS and NBC in Pattee Canyon?
3. What antenna would you recommend. I have Dish Network - would a clip on antenna that attaches to the dish get me reception or am i going to have to go much bigger?

Thanks

Stefan

Just wanted to weigh in on what's happening in Helena.

I've emailed all the local tv stations (CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS) about when we may be seeing ANYTHING in HD. Basically they've all said it ain't happening any time soon.

We've got nothing over the air (as far is I know) and zero network channels in HD from Bresnan. The FOX channel that Bresnan gives us is from Denver (I think).

Also, somewhere in the middle of October (I was out of town when it happened) they upgraded the software on my 6412 (it's now sw 73.44 and fw 12.31) so now the 30sec skip ahead is disabled! I assume that was Bresnan wide. Anybody complained about it?

From Helena,

Eric

Also, somewhere in the middle of October (I was out of town when it happened) they upgraded the software on my 6412 (it's now sw 73.44 and fw 12.31) so now the 30sec skip ahead is disabled! I assume that was Bresnan wide. Anybody complained about it?

From Helena,

EricSame here in Missoula. Losing the 30 second skip was suck enough, but my 6412 locks up all the time now, and I have to reboot it to get it working. Complained to local Bresnan CSR, and they told me the are working on deploying a new Pace Micro PVR. Looking them up, they sound great, with much larger hard drives and one model has three tuners. Anything would be better than the moto 6412, with the 73.44sw.

On another note, of the 12 HD channels that Bresnan offers, you can get 7 of them for free. No need to upgrade to the HD tier. If you subscribe to Starz or HBO, you will get those HD channels free also. Subscribing to the HD tier only gets you UHD, ESPHD, and HDNMV.

Is anyone else in Bozeman having problems with NBC 6-1? It seems to come and go, but when it is on the signal strength is good. What's up with that?

Well I called NBC in Bozeman and they said a transformer blew. They must have fixed it though because it is back on air.
Any one else in Bozeman out there, resistance fall of man players????

So what all can we get OTA wise is Bozeman?

I work at Target and with a crappy multi-directional non-powered antenna I can get 7.1, 7.2 (I believe), 9.1, and 9.2 I gather from the previous post that if you have a sufficient antenna you can get NBC HD out of Butte(?).

I just snagged a Samsung DTB-H260F off of eBay and I'm going to hook it up to my parents Bresnan expanded basic (non-digital) connection once I get it. I'll report back on what channel the Samsung is able to get.

Hey smileyscout
In BZ you can get the following digital channels: 6.1(NBC), 7.1(CBS), 7.2(CW), 9.1(PBSHD), and 9.2(PBSMT). The NBC channel is out of Bozeman but there broadcast is on the east end of town and is very weak. I live on the west end of town and have a Terk55 indoor/outdoor antannea and it seems to work fine.

With the DTB-H260F I was able to get all of the expanded basic channels, two local HD channels, Discovery HD, and possibly a movie channel or two.

smileyscout:

I'm sorry, but just to clarify: you're getting all of those OTA? We just moved here to Bozeman and I'm trying to figure out all of our options... I'm not thrilled with Bresnan's package for the price, and am actually considering Dish Network. Does the weather up here in MT play havoc with satellite systems like DN?

Thanks in advance... Mark

oops... double-post... sorry

Moving to Bozeman, assuming the stress of moving doesn't kill me. Taking a position at MSU. I was just looking for advice on whether to get satellite or bresnan. Also off topic, apartment advice is also appreciated.

A post from November 2006 said that Helena did not yet have HD OTA and that it was probably not coming anytime soon. Can someone give me an update on that? Is there still no OTA HD in Helena? Is there anything on the horizon?

I don't suppose you can pick up signal from some other city if you use a powerful roof mounted antenna?

Thanks for any help you can give!

Helena currently gets NBC OTA HD and nothing else. I sent out some emails last week and CBS told me they would have OTA HD next summer and ABC never replied! Woo hoo! Helena is truly in a deadzone when it comes to HD locals.

Helena's NBC (digital channel 12.1) is currently only broadcasting 480i (not HD) along with its sister station at 10.1 (CW). Can't get any information about if/when they plan on going beyond SD resolution. But be assured they'll quickly deny any and all satellite waiver requests.

I'm planning to move to Helena very soon, and I'd like to figure out what my options are for HD and non-HD programming. It looks like only NBC and CW are broadcasting on digital signals, and they are not even true HD.

Do people around there use DirectTV or any other sattelite service to get HD channels? (If not DirectTV, is there a preferred local service?)

Just for my reference, what are the local cable companies?

Thanks for your help -- I appreciate it.

Cable is supplied by Bresnan Communications (bresnan.com). I don't currently have cable TV through them, but I've been considering it. I do have internet and a digital phone line through Bresnan, and I've been very pleased with them in the past few years. They were a bit bad in terms of customer service and such a few years back, but they've really got their act together now. I plan on trying to use a Mythtv system with their cable if I get it, so I hope they continue to be as helpful.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you much about their cable tv offering yet.

I currently get two DTV channels, NBC and CW. Neither of them are HD.

Cable is supplied by Bresnan Communications (bresnan.com). I don't currently have cable TV through them, but I've been considering it. I do have internet and a digital phone line through Bresnan, and I've been very pleased with them in the past few years. They were a bit bad in terms of customer service and such a few years back, but they've really got their act together now. I plan on trying to use a Mythtv system with their cable if I get it, so I hope they continue to be as helpful.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you much about their cable tv offering yet.

I currently get two DTV channels, NBC and CW. Neither of them are HD.

Thanks for the information, it is much appreciated. At the risk of going off topic a bit, how is the internet speed? Also, I'm a heavy downloader and am always weary of new providers because they sometimes monitor usage and complain about "excessive" downloading. (I probably download about 12 gigs a month at least.)

Just a quick update for those in Bozeman/Belgrade. I live 8 miles N of belgrade, and with current OTA cannot receive any DTV signals here.

However, in Belgrade, you can receive 5 DTV channels, NBC, CBS (2), PBS (2). ABC (on 19) should be going live this week from Butte, but not sure you can receive from here. The PBS and CBS HD channels will lock in pretty high.

I'm assuming the Bozeman stations would be improved in that location, but the Butte ones worse, but no verification on that.

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp is a good place to check, but you'll have to know your lat/lon to check it.

Helena's KTVH-DT NBC is now broadcasting in 1080i, but so far have only been sending out SD content across it.

NBC is now sending a 1080i signal? That is progress even though the programming is not yet 1080i. Lets hope ABC gets in gear and starts broadcasting an HD signal.

I'm in the Kalispell area - out of this thread's area a bit - but have a question for anyone who might know. I have Bresnan's expanded basic cable.They told me that if I rent one of their Set Top Boxes ($9.95/mo.) I can receive six HD channels withOUT upgrading to a digital package. Only one of those six is a local network (CBS). We only have one OTA station (NBC) broadcasting in HD (digital) which I get with an older Samsung HD OTA receiver and a small indoor antenna.

I'm thinking of buying Samsung's new OTA receiver which includes a QAM receiver, able to decode cable HD channels as long as they are not "encrypted". As I'm certainly looking to receive a CBS station in HD and would rather not rent a STB if I can help it, does anyone know if this station (channel 708) is encrypted?

I would venture to say anything they are charging for will either be encrypted now or in the very short future, so you'd be better off either paying the subscription, especially given where you are,.

Is anyone getting NBC HD OTA is Bozeman right now? If you are is it coming out of Butte and how big of an antenna do you have? I live in the Tai Lane Apartments (Spectators) right next to MSU and I could barely pick up anything with a amplified bunny ears from Target.

@Alan G. Here in Bozeman Bresnan doesn't encrypt TNT HD, Discovery HD, PBS, and one of the locals. Plus you can get all the music channels and expanded basic. Yah for unencrypted QAM.

Wow Smileyscout. You've given me hope! The newish Samsung H260F OTA receiver is at Vann's and BestBuy, much cheaper than I paid for my old receiver, from which we receive our one station broadcasting in HD. Their tower is 25 miles away and we get a good signal using the highly rated Zenith Silver Sensor (now Phillips), a small, very directional, indoor antenna.

Incidentally, I wrote our local CBS station's engineer about going digital and he said they aren't required to in Feb. 2009, because they are a "Class A LPTV" station. Their switchover hasn't been determined yet. I was hoping they'd beat the deadline so we could receive it OTA soon!

Newest report for Bresnan in Helena MT

Bresnan has a good choice of clear QAM if you are capable..
About 60 or so channels in various hd and sound The only full 1080 p or I is TNT HD.
I watched saving pvt Ryan the other nite on on tnt HD with my new Pinnacle PCTV HD Ultimate Stick-Clear Qam capable, and new Acer 24" lcd monitor with 3000:1 contrast and 2ms response time...
WOW I have never seen a movie look that good on my pc ever!
But over all good picture quality on all the rest of the digital channels.

Newest report for Bresnan in Helena MT

Bresnan has a good choice of clear QAM if you are capable..
About 60 or so channels in various hd and sound The only full 1080 p or I is TNT HD.


There are a few channels in clear QAM not even available with the Digital STB (DCT700).

Clear QAM HD looks like TNT-HD and Discovery HD (club1080/Discovery HD Theater).

It's frustrating that the rest of the HD channels are not broadcast in the clear. I've had a few calls with Bresnan to get the scoop on what QAM channels should be available, but mostly the folks that answer the phone just don't know.

KTVH 12 (12.1) is digital, 1080i, but still (AFAIK) up-converted SD content. Easily viewable with a set of rabbit ears, though.

BTW, Bresnan broadcasts their VOD in clear QAM..

tsm1mt or anyone else in Helena, Other than the TNT-HD, Discovery Theater and VOD do you receive any QAM channels that you don't already receive in analog form?


Also what is a good cheap antenna that I can buy locally (Helena) that will pick up NBC in HD?

tsm1mt or anyone else in Helena, Other than the TNT-HD, Discovery Theater and VOD do you receive any QAM channels that you don't already receive in analog form?


Also what is a good cheap antenna that I can buy locally (Helena) that will pick up NBC in HD?


There are a couple of QAM-only channels that are not available analog.

Great American Country (GAC) is the one that comes to mind, and I think HSN or QVC (both are in QAM, one is in analog).

I've sent another email to Bresnan asking for the full QAM listing and requesting clarification if they'll be broadcasting more HD in clear QAM or if they're pushing us all to lease STBs for each TV.

If the latter, I need to look at DirecTV again.

I live in the valley, and with "any" antenna attached, I was able to get NBC broadcasting standard-definition shows upscaled in 1080i.

Once again, I've hit the "ask a question" option from Bresnan's customer support center, asking about the clear QAM channels and encouraging Bresnan to NOT move to pushing digital STBs on every TV by adding more UNENCRYPTED QAM channels, giving Bresnan Cable an edge over Satellite.

Hmm..


Response (Nicole D.) - 02/11/2008 10:01 PM
Tom-

I am sorry about your troubles. I understand that you are picking up the QAM
Channels, but any thing above in the 3 digit channels you are not paying for except
on the TV that you have a digital cable box on. No we have no line or will never
have a line up for those channels so that you can have a guide. Those channels are
to be encrypted, but at this time we don't have that done. We will not be expanding
the unencrypted channels, in all actually we will be eliminating it completely, and
encrypting every channel that we have .

Thank you,
Nicole D.
E-Care Support


Translation: I guess satellite will be back in vogue in this household sooner than later.

Wow that sucks.

Wow that sucks.

It gets better.

This week (or last) Bresnan began encrypting ALL QAM digital channels *except* the OnDemand stuff.

No more TNT-HD or HDTheater, and no more standard-def digital channels, including GAC, without using (and paying extra for) the digital-set-top-box.

But they still send out the OnDemand/PayPerView unencrypted..

Yea I noticed the same thing around that time. Went to DiscoveryHD and it no longer was coming in. I rescanned the channels and now I don't get anything. I use to get TNT-HD, DiscoveryHD, PBSHD, CBSHD. And I was getting most channels in Digital. I now get only PBSHD and CBSHD and all of the VOD channels. What a little Bi%^& thing for Bresnan to do. And now opening day all of the MT and WY bresnan customers where treated to a Blackout of the Seattle Mariners. Come to find out Bresnan cheeped out and didn't spend the money this year to receive all of the Games. Does anyone know if Dish or DirectTV starting broadcasting the local channels in HD yet? I will be switching soon.

Does anyone know if Dish or DirectTV starting broadcasting the local channels in HD yet? I will be switching soon.

The only thing I know about is Dish, which is what I subscribe to.
According to http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets/
7 of the 9 standard TV marketing areas do qualify for local channel broadcast. The ones that do not are Helena and Glendive.
Go to http://www.dishnetwork.com/ Under"What's on Dish, the fifth choice, "Local Channels, type in your address to confirm if you get local channels.

I know I can get my local channels in Missoula, but I was wondering if they showed the HD local channels yet. Does anyone have Sat. and receive any locals in HD? On the Dish website it doesn't have an HD symbol next to each local channel when you do the search. I wonder how long before they are available?

I just moved to Bozeman from the east coast and was quite disappointed about the HD options here. Bresnan does not offer much in terms of local HD channels and they want quite a bit for very little that they do deliver.

Any one has an update on what local channels are available in HD in Bozeman? What antenna would you recommend?

Well Bresnan's actually added a good many HD channels over the course of the last few months, but you're right, not any of the locals. I just hope they get Fox and NBC before this fall.

I've always heard that the problem lies with the local stations themselves dragging their feet in terms of getting their HD feed up and running.

I just moved to Bozeman from the east coast and was quite disappointed about the HD options here. Bresnan does not offer much in terms of local HD channels and they want quite a bit for very little that they do deliver.

Any one has an update on what local channels are available in HD in Bozeman? What antenna would you recommend?

It really depends on where you are. I live N of Belgrade, and even with a large antenna, can barely get a good signal for NBC and CBS/CW. Fox is just a translator on analog here 32/24. ABC just launched there HD on 19 (18.1), but it's running at low power.

If you're central in the valley, you should be able to get PBS (9.1), NBC (33), CBS/CW (4.1/4.2) in HD, and that's about it.

From what my buddy says, bresnan is actually the best HD programming option, but I don't have anything but off-air. The XG91 is a good UHF antenna, but a decent UHF/VHF combo from radio shack will probably get you close, depending on where you are. Other than that, you're stuck ordering online. You'll need VHF as NBC will be moving it's digital to 6 at the transition and CBC is on 4.

It will likely be a couple of years (when the analog translators move to digital) before the digital world here matches others.

Just one of those trade-offs for living in Beautiful Big Sky Montana.

Besides, it's finally nice here, turn the TV off and go outside until November! ;->

Interesting news.. I hooked up antenna again yesterday to discover that not only is KTVH-12.1 broadcasting in 1080i (like it was the last time I looked) but they were actually feeding an HD signal over it (instead of up-scaling the SD signal).

Sure, the only show thus far has been golf, but maybe the Hockey game will be in HD tonight..

I am in Bozeman and as far as OTA HD all I get is PBS, NBC and CBS. I have Directv but locals are not in HD and from what I hear they won't be for a couple of years at the earliest, but who knows, things change all the time. Anyone using the AM21 with Directv? I am but not able to get NBC to work through it. Is anyone able to do this?

Hey all, thanks for the posts as they helped motivate me to move into the digital age earlier this year. I wanted to let everyone know that I posted information on the different channels I can pick up in Bozeman (including bitrates & screencaps of each channel) on my newish blog @ http://pcjjman.blogspot.com.

Hey all, thanks for the posts as they helped motivate me to move into the digital age earlier this year. I wanted to let everyone know that I posted information on the different channels I can pick up in Bozeman (including bitrates & screencaps of each channel) on my newish blog @ http://pcjjman.blogspot.com.

Nice blog. You should update us on the ABC Fox situation. I guess people in Butte can get 18.1 ABCHD but it is running at low power. I am not able to pick it up on the West side of Bozeman. Hopefully, they get ABC going soon with Football season coming up.

Sweet blog! I still don't get why NBC is not in the Bresnan local HD lineup. I'm also hoping for ABC and Fox soon. (Well at least before the new season of 24 starts...

Has any new progress been made lately?

The Fox station that Bozeman gets on cable wasn't issued a second channel for their Digital license (fuzzy quirk relating to when they went online), and so they will flashcut to Digital at some point, probably in February 2009. There won't be any HD Fox before then, and no guarantee after that.

KTVH in Helena is terminating analog on November 10. They will be moving their digital signal from channel 14 to channel 12.

I got stung with the shifting of channels Bresnan did back in December 2007. Nonetheless I am running MythTV and get PBS and CBS in HD. The reason I heard NBC is not broadcasting HD with Bresnan is because of money. Essentially NBC wants Bresnan to pay a certain amount for the rights to broadcast their HD signal and Bresnan doesn't want to pay up. Of course, here it is in mid November and still no Fox or ABC in HD. Would love to know a timeline of when we could at least get those.

I got stung with the shifting of channels Bresnan did back in December 2007. Nonetheless I am running MythTV and get PBS and CBS in HD. The reason I heard NBC is not broadcasting HD with Bresnan is because of money. Essentially NBC wants Bresnan to pay a certain amount for the rights to broadcast their HD signal and Bresnan doesn't want to pay up. Of course, here it is in mid November and still no Fox or ABC in HD. Would love to know a timeline of when we could at least get those.

Depending on where you are, ABC swears (I talked to the engineer) that they are sending a good signal on physical 19 (18.1). I myself can't get it, although I get 4.1 and 4.2 off the same general area. I only get just up to the point where it almost locks, but I get no signal on the receiver. From what I read, it appears we "might" get Fox on DTV after Feb, but no gaurantees. The 32 and 24 signals aren't very good on analog, so I'd bet we'd see the same there.

Our ABC affiliate, KHBB-LP, which is really just KFBB out of Great Falls, switched off their analog signal 21 this week and went digital. Nothing HD yet but the big surprise is that they put FOX/MNTV on 21.2. We have been without a FOX affiliate here for several years and this is big news. The FOX/MNTV channel is in all-letter box, no HD and the picture is cropped and stretched sometimes to force the letterbox, but hey, we have FOX now. It will probably stay this way until there is a lawsuit over someone not being able to read the disclaimers. The ABC signal is "postage-stamp" so I'm hoping that they will pass some ABC programming through in HD.

KTVH is still passing NBC network programming through in HD 1080i (when they remember to) but when they switch to the local feed it reverts to postage-stamp format, and left-channel audio only (their master control supervisor is deaf so this problem will likely never get fixed). They recently dropped local weekend News and I understand that they only have one engineer (hearing). We're lucky that they are on the air at all.

Did another channel scan in Missoula and I am now picking up 109.11 or Bresnan's channel 766, Bravo HD unencrypted.

Our ABC affiliate, KHBB-LP, which is really just KFBB out of Great Falls, switched off their analog signal 21 this week and went digital. Nothing HD yet but the big surprise is that they put FOX/MNTV on 21.2. We have been without a FOX affiliate here for several years and this is big news. The FOX/MNTV channel is in all-letter box, no HD and the picture is cropped and stretched sometimes to force the letterbox, but hey, we have FOX now. It will probably stay this way until there is a lawsuit over someone not being able to read the disclaimers. The ABC signal is "postage-stamp" so I'm hoping that they will pass some ABC programming through in HD.

KTVH is still passing NBC network programming through in HD 1080i (when they remember to) but when they switch to the local feed it reverts to postage-stamp format, and left-channel audio only (their master control supervisor is deaf so this problem will likely never get fixed). They recently dropped local weekend News and I understand that they only have one engineer (hearing). We're lucky that they are on the air at all.

NBC in Bozeman doesn't seem to be broadcasting in HD anymore either?? Anyone know what thats about?

Also, anybody know of any unencrypted HD in the Bozeman area? Finally, the ABC Butte channel is weak, I still can't get it. They better boost it when the analogue is switched off.

With a good rooftop antenna pointed north, you should be able to get Helena NBC 12.1 anywhere from about Belgrade to Three Forks. They pass good NBC-HD most of the time but their local picture and sound bite big time. Some people have had success in Bozeman with really good antennas.

No HD from our NBC station (KCFW) within the last couple of days. And that's OTA!

Well, last night's Sunday Night Football was in HD (on KCFM, OTA), but the post game show was not. I wonder what the story is. :confused:

Sorry if this is the wrong forum or slightly OT, but this is the thread my search located...

I recently had local Bozeman network feeds added to my DirecTV package, and the required hardware upgrades to go along with it. My satellite reception is perfect (open view - as good as you can get). However, the quality of the feeds is *horrible*. I still have my East/West feeds active, though I was told these would go away upon the next "refresh". Questions:

1) Why is the quality of the local feeds so horrible? NBC seems to be out half the time (displays a message saying they are aware and working on it), and the others often have his, stuttering, or other quality issues.

2) If they don't improve this and they dump my East/West feeds, what are my odds of successfully convincing them to allow me to keep all three until the issue is resolved? I'd be tolerant of these local issues if I can at least have access to the reliable East/West feeds (which also have HD - the local feeds don't even include that option!)

Thanks in advance, and the mod can feel free to move this to the correct forum, if I'm in the wrong place.

Does Anyone Know When this is going to happen or is it going
to cross-cut in February

Does Anyone Know When this is going to happen or is it going
to cross-cut in February

They don't have a permit to go digital at all as far as I can tell, though that's just from a quick check.

- Trip

Is anyone in Bozeman able to receive this channel? I originally got the "YES" from the engineer in Butte, but even though they say their tower is more powerful and it's right next to the CBS affiliate, I still can't get it. I get 4.1 and 4.2 very well, and 6.1 (33) marginally well, all of them in the same area. I'm using a big antenna and pre-amp, so I've done just about all I can do other than going with Dish or DTV.

Is anyone in Bozeman able to receive this channel? I originally got the "YES" from the engineer in Butte, but even though they say their tower is more powerful and it's right next to the CBS affiliate, I still can't get it. I get 4.1 and 4.2 very well, and 6.1 (33) marginally well, all of them in the same area. I'm using a big antenna and pre-amp, so I've done just about all I can do other than going with Dish or DTV.

I live in Boz and can't get it either. My analogue signal for 28 is pretty crappy too. I know some people that live in the springhill area that can get it. I really hope they fix this soon.

I live in Boz and can't get it either. My analogue signal for 28 is pretty crappy too. I know some people that live in the springhill area that can get it. I really hope they fix this soon.

Well, I guess that makes me feel a little better knowing I'm not the only one. I can't get 28 at all from here. I get 18 but it's totally multipath garbled. I'm hoping once they do the switch over, they'll bring 19 up to full power and we'll get it.

I'm assuming you get 4.1, 4.2, and 6.1 well? CBS is the strongest for me.

Bresnan, at least in our area (Kalispell), just started carrying KCFW (NBC) on a QAM channel. That gives us CBS, NBC, CW and Bravo via QAM. No idea about ABC, PBS or FOX.

For people in Bozeman I emailed the engineer at ABC about their digital signal coming out of Butte and he said that the digital siginal is maxed out for Butte but they will have a Bozeman tower on Green Mountain ready to go in the next couple months. They are just waiting to get some equipment to do so. So hopefully here soon we can enjoy some ABC HD.

For people in Bozeman I emailed the engineer at ABC about their digital signal coming out of Butte and he said that the digital siginal is maxed out for Butte but they will have a Bozeman tower on Green Mountain ready to go in the next couple months. They are just waiting to get some equipment to do so. So hopefully here soon we can enjoy some ABC HD.

Good stuff, thanks. I had emailed the station manager, and she didn't mention anything about it.

Where is green mountain? Knowing my luck, it'll be the same place the PBS 9 is located, and I wont' be able to see it. I can't believe they can't push the same power as CBS and NBC, but I guess they are a smaller affiliate anyway.

Thanks for the info!

Good stuff, thanks. I had emailed the station manager, and she didn't mention anything about it.

Where is green mountain? Knowing my luck, it'll be the same place the PBS 9 is located, and I wont' be able to see it. I can't believe they can't push the same power as CBS and NBC, but I guess they are a smaller affiliate anyway.

Thanks for the info!

Green Mountain is in the Bozeman Pass area, where 9.1 and 7.1 are transmitted from. Like I said, its not really a power issue, there's just no transmitter right now for the digital channel.

Bresnan, at least in our area (Kalispell), just started carrying KCFW (NBC) on a QAM channel. That gives us CBS, NBC, CW and Bravo via QAM. No idea about ABC, PBS or FOX.

Yes indeed, NBC is now available in HD on Bresnan in Missoula. Now we just need to find out about Fox and ABC. Anyone know anything about HD availability on those?

I thought Bresnan Was downconverting the digital
Signal. Because When ABC Shut off its analog signal I lost it.
yet earlier that Night Bresnan Had An Ad for a low-cost package for
locals I live in Missoula BTW

I Found Out that My Apartment Doesn't Even Have Bresnan
It uses Montana Wireless TV Whatever That is

I had to get my tv repaired and got a loner Sony that only had one coax connection. I connected it to my basic cable and I was able to get the PBS HD, CBS HD, CW D, Bravo HD. They were channels like 83.1 and above.

For some reason I can't get these with my Samsung as it won't let me add digital channels with a decimal? Anyone know why. I would be nice to view those channels without switching to the antenna.

I had to get my tv repaired and got a loner Sony that only had one coax connection. I connected it to my basic cable and I was able to get the PBS HD, CBS HD, CW D, Bravo HD. They were channels like 83.1 and above.

For some reason I can't get these with my Samsung as it won't let me add digital channels with a decimal? Anyone know why. I would be nice to view those channels without switching to the antenna.

Is it possible the Sammy just doesn't like physical channels above 69 for some reason? Seems like you'd just be able to get the scan to pick those up vs. manually tuning them, no?

Is it possible the Sammy just doesn't like physical channels above 69 for some reason? Seems like you'd just be able to get the scan to pick those up vs. manually tuning them, no?

Yeah the auto scan doesn't detect them. It seems really weird that it wouldn't pick up the digital channels. There probably is somekind of channel limitation (ie not above 69).

FYI, the DishNetwork VIP722 does not appear to allow you to scan for OTA channels past 69.

I will confirm that with a cheap powered indoor RCA UHF/VHF atennae (http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT1250-Amplified-indoor-Antenna/dp/B000063SNE/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1238371736&sr=8-32), I am able to pick up PBS (Frequency 8: Channel(s): 9-1, 9-2, 9-3), NBC HD (Frequency 34: Channel(s): 6-1), and CBS HD (Frequency 13: Channel(s): 7-1), in a daylight basement in Belgrade (RiverRock). I am not sure if PBS is in HD. These are all on VHF.

I am having trouble picking up the ABC or FOX channels that are supposedly broadcast (according to AntennaWeb.org (http://antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx)), but it may be an issue with picking up the UHF signals.

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,124871.0.html

I knew that max media had a LMA with ABC and FOX

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,124871.0.html

I knew that max media had a LMA with ABC and FOX

what does this mean?

what does this mean?

I hope this mean that KMMF Will Have It's Digital
Transmitter up and running by June when they need to
Cross Cut

I emailed the technician at KMMF again to see if there has been any progress on the ABC channel and if they will be broadcasting a Fox channel. I'll let you guys know what he said.

MT PBS Now has PBS Create as a subchannel
here in Missoula it's on 11-3 and they moved
TVMT To 11-4 basically it's cooking, sewing, woodworking, and travel shows

I have Bresnan's Expanded Basic (no digital box). When doing a new channel search recently, I noticed they've added several of the lower channels to QAM, including Montana PBS. These are, of course, digital, but apparently not HD.

What was the thought behind this? They're repeats of the analogs, which Bresnan will undoubtedly still carry after the digital conversion.

FWIW, DishNetwork/E* started carrying ABC, CBS, and NBC in HD a week or 2 ago. Some of the content is still in SD (like the good morning shows, etc), but the sports and prime-time shows (like CSI) seem to be in HD.

Fox is still not available in HD and the quality of the SD picture is very poor.

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20090602/BUSINESS/906020317/1046/SPECIALSECTION05/Max+Media+to+take+over+several+local+Fox+affiliates

Coming Soon to KTMF 23.2 And KWYB 19.2 Butte And 28.2 Bozeman

ABC still hasn't switched over. I was hoping to catch the last finales game in HD :(

Hopefully they get 28.1 and 28.2 running by July.

There was an Article in last sunday's Missoulian
According To Linda Grey, President Of Max Media Montana
Fox Won't be on until July 13, At Least on KTMF 23.2

There was an Article in last sunday's Missoulian
According To Linda Grey, President Of Max Media Montana
Fox Won't be on until July 13, At Least on KTMF 23.2

Will it become available in Bozeman at the same time?

Fox Signed On yesterday at 4PM and they are still
working out the bugs, It Was nice to watch House
In HD.

I got this response from Linda Gray at Max Media:
We began broadcasting the new Fox yesterday, July 13. It is available over the air on channel 28.2 in Bozeman. It also is available now on Bresnan Cable.

We spoke with Dish Network and they told us they will be adding it to their line-up on or before July 29th. I believe we will be providing them HD signals for both Fox and ABC.

Bresnan rearranged their QAM channels recently. We've been receiving NBC and CBS in HD for some time. Anybody getting FOX or ABC in HD via QAM?

Here's my take on OTA in Montana near Flathead Lake:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16918498#post16918498

FYI...DirecTV now lists Missoula HD locals as announced for November:

http://www.directv.com/hdlocals

I use Windows Media Center as my DVR for OTA digital TV. It works fine for NBC, CBS, and PBS, but not for ABC/Fox (KWYB) on 28.1 and 28.2. I can receive those stations on my digital TV, but I can't get them at all on my computer (the signal strength meter shows strong signals for them, but cannot get the pictures). I have read on another forum that Media Center is fussy about stations having all their auxiliary data in the data stream just right, and may not get a station if the station does not have everything just right.

Can anybody else using Media Center receive those stations? If so, did you have to tweak anything to get them?

For what it's worth, I have never been able to receive those 2 channels with my amplified indoor antenna on my HDTV... until yesterday. It was so weird! I usually get "poor signal quality," for but some reason, both came in for a brief period of time. I had to run so I didn't have much of a chance to fool around with it, but I will do so later tonight. I live on the east end of Bozeman in a 2nd floor unit.

I live in South Bozeman near Sacajawea school in a one story home. I get 28.1 and 28.2 fine on my HDTV using an amplified indoor antenna.

I'm still having weirdness over here in east downton Bozeman. Earlier today I was watching Notre Dame on NBC 6.1 and all of a sudden, out it goes. I can't get anything I normally can, which is 6.1 and 7.1 and 7.2 plus KUSM's channels. But for some reason I suddenly CAN get 28.1 and 28.2! It's like that for a while, then 6.1 and 7.1 kick in... Now I'm getting pretty much everything for the first time ever.

As an aside... for those of us who don't give a rip about the Griz... Can't you put that on 7.2 and give us the SEC on CBS in HD on 7.1?

Can anyone tell me why I get all the Bozeman HD channels but they are in the 60's and 80's with just basic cable?

Hmmm, up here in the Flathead, I get HD CBS and NBC at 100.1 and 105.3 with Expanded Basic Bresnan. A friend up the street does NOT get the HD channels at all with Basic Bresnan.

Okay, I just upgraded to Digital Classic with Bresnan, got a Pace DC700X HD reciever, and have horrible reception. I never did before (with Expanded Basic, which still works good)! Out of the 47 HD channels, 25 either have macro blocking or a "Wait a Minute" message, whereas it never comes on. Even a bunch of the Digital Basic (non-HD) channels have that message.

I traded boxes, but still the same thing. All my connections are tight. Anybody else facing this? Is it substandard bitrate? Please help!

Okay, especially since this thread is about dead, I'm answering my own question. Had the Bresnan tech out yesterday and he changed connectors on several coax cables, told me not to go through the surge protector with the cable (it's already protected at the box), and found one cable with a pinch in it, which he replaced. Good (enough) to go.

With no fanfare or warning, our CBS affiliate went digital today. It was KXLH-LP 25 analog and it is coming up as 9.1 digital in standard definition. I hope that PBS will do the same soon.

The only Clear QAM channels I pick up in Butte on Bresnan are 4.1 (CBS/KXLF HD), 6.1 (NBC/KTVM HD), 81.3 (PBS/KUSM HD), 92.3 (FOX/KWYB-DT2), 92.4 (ABC/KWYB HD), and 110.6103 (BYU SD). Back in Powell the Music Choice channels were the only Clear QAM channels as of Jan 2009 before we switched providers.

I am using a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 on a Win7 box using media center. I have a Ceton InfiniTV 4 on preorder but don't have it just yet.

Word from Bresnan was that we would be be getting ABC and FOX in HD sometime soon. (They thought in August.) Nothing about PBS, unfortunately.

Looks Like TV is going to get
Better in Western Montana
KECI, KCFW and KTVM are
Adding MeTV as their 2nd
Subchannel right now it
Is showing test patterns
On 13.2 and 13.3 here in Missoula

MeTV is Now On 13.2 and its looks like This TV is coming to 13.3
wonder if Optimum will pick it up

Well, so much for the hope of better prices from Optimum (the new Bresnan). Thank you, Cablevision. I'll keep my old Bresnan package as long as allowed.

Plus, still no ABC or FOX HD and the audio cutouts on FOX suck.

And now Optimum (Bresnan) just raised their rates.

Knock, knock. Is anybody out there?

This TV Signed On as Of Friday at 8 pm on 13.3 in Missoula