Yes, I also saw 4.4 now, too. I also see that WNBC-DT is on 28.1 and 4.1. Sort of a strange thing. It seems like WNBC is fooling around with a new multicast channel.

Yes, I also saw 4.4 now, too. I also see that WNBC-DT is on 28.1 and 4.1. Sort of a strange thing. It seems like WNBC is fooling around with a new multicast channel.


Let's hope not!

Just remember that each additional multicast channel means more compression of the 6mHz bandwidth, and diminishes the quality of the main HD channel.

Gary

Gary, what are you receiving ABC on? I can't pick up 7-1 or 45-1 on either my 942 or my HD TiVo. I am picking it up on the bird channel 86, but zip OTA.

UPDATE: Ok, I'm getting some blips on 45-1. The signal meter is booming but the video comes in and out. Also, I notice that my Zenith HDR230 is now getting guide data for NBC when it never has before. Maybe this is why we're all seeing 4-4?

Hi, Guys.

I'm having the same problem with 7.1 (didn't try 7.2). I called ABC NY and asked for engineering. They seemed really concerned and put an engineer on the phone. His name is Pete. He wanted to know where I was and when and what was happening. If any others want to call in, he said that would help them to fix it. His name is Pete in engineering, and the number is 212.456.1000. Press 3 to get the operator and ask for engineering.

just noticed that there's programming on 4.4 now,it appears to be random segments from WNBC news programs,i.e.,Asa Aron's consumer reports,a segment about holiday shopping with Darlene Rodriguez,Jeffrey Lyons interviewing Chaz Palmiteri,etc.

Yes, I noticed that on 4.4, too. I guess they are testing for a new channel.

I worked at ABC-NY for years so I was able to use my contacts to get thru to someone in engineering. It seems there have been several reports of trouble and WABC received a call from DIRECTV alerting them to a problem with HD reception and their receiver. This afternoon (Wednesday) WABC sent someone to the transmitter to check on the problem. (In the old days, the transmitter was staffed 24/7, but it seems in these cost-cutting days, they only send someone down there to collect the mail!)

I have not had WABC-DT (7.1. and 7.2) since Monday on my Hughes hr10-250 directivo receiver -- though when I do a signal strength test on channel 45, I get a solid 95 percent. Someone is wrong, very wrong. Hopefully, they can get to the bottom of it!

I worked at ABC-NY for years so I was able to use my contacts to get thru to someone in engineering. It seems there have been several reports of trouble and WABC received a call from DIRECTV alerting them to a problem with HD reception and their receiver. This afternoon (Wednesday) WABC sent someone to the transmitter to check on the problem. (In the old days, the transmitter was staffed 24/7, but it seems in these cost-cutting days, they only send someone down there to collect the mail!)

I have not had WABC-DT (7.1. and 7.2) since Monday on my Hughes hr10-250 directivo receiver -- though when I do a signal strength test on channel 45, I get a solid 95 percent. Someone is wrong, very wrong. Hopefully, they can get to the bottom of it!

Most importantly, they BETTER get it fixed by 8:59pm tonight...... :eek:

Thanks for the information, gawarner. Hopefully, they will fix the problem soon. Please let us know if you hear any more information.

It seems to be working again, as of post time.

By the way, I tried to get in touch with Pete but the operator said she needed a last name and wouldn't simply connect me to engineering. Thanks for the number though.

PS Why is NBC NY playing around with another subchannel?

jay,I believe tonight's Lost is a rerun,and no new episodes til Jan 11th,according to a post on the Fuselage.
7.1 seems to be back,but both it and 45.1 are extremely poor,very pixelated and frozen.
The new 4.4 seems to be of very poor quality as well.

I find it hard to believe that his meter gave him "the same" levels on the roof. At the very least there should have been a few db difference from cable loss going down to your TV. I'm not 100%, but i'm pretty sure diplexors have like .5db insertion loss to them.

where in Bergen co. are you? I was living in Hasbrouck Heights, in an apartment on the ground floor, and had a small terk outdoor antenna that i mounted in one of my closets and had no problem getting all the NY locals on a first generation HD tuner.

First what kind of antenna did the installer put in, since you say its mounted on teh side of your house by the dish i'm picturing one of those square plastic units. Go get a REAL antenna and put it on the roof if thats the case, most will agree those look nice but are crap.

I'm in Bergenfield. I don't know what type of antenna it is. It doesn't quite look like those huge roof mounted ones but it also seems bigger than "those square plastic units". Of course I'm not really sure what you mean by "those square plastic units". should I try to get an antennuator from radio shack and see if that helps? As you can tell I really don't know much about these antenna issues. It's been a really long time since I've ever even had one.

I'm in Bergenfield. I don't know what type of antenna it is. It doesn't quite look like those huge roof mounted ones but it also seems bigger than "those square plastic units". Of course I'm not really sure what you mean by "those square plastic units". should I try to get an antennuator from radio shack and see if that helps? As you can tell I really don't know much about these antenna issues. It's been a really long time since I've ever even had one.

could you take an educated guess as to how big it is? and what it looks like?

if its not metal in construction and you cant see any antenna elements then chances are that its junk.

I dont think you need an attenuator- my signals levels were no where near the verge of overload in hasbrouck heights, and i was closer to empire then you are, it sounds like you need more signal not less.

for where you are you should be fine with an antenna like this http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?CAT=&PROD=ANC3021 up on the roof, its also not too directional so aiming it should be easy, plug you'll be able to get stuff like NJN thats coming from the oposite direction as the NY signals as well.

jay,I believe tonight's Lost is a rerun,and no new episodes til Jan 11th,according to a post on the Fuselage.
7.1 seems to be back,but both it and 45.1 are extremely poor,very pixelated and frozen.
The new 4.4 seems to be of very poor quality as well.

Yeah, I remember reading that last week....but I just got my new 50" DLP delivered on Friday....and I was hoping to see how she looked with Lost being fed to her....

:cool:

I've noticed some various news and entertainment programming on WNBC-DT 4.4 as well. Kind of like WABC-DT 7.2. I have to agree with Gary, more subchannels means more compression on the bandwidth and less quality on 4.1 (the main HD channel).

The question begs: If there's a WNBC-DT 4.4, surely a 4.3 subchannel is in the works?


...Mel :cool:

I've noticed some various news and entertainment programming on WNBC-DT 4.4 as well. Kind of like WABC-DT 7.2. I have to agree with Gary, more subchannels means more compression on the bandwidth and less quality on 4.1 (the main HD channel).

The question begs: If there's a WNBC-DT 4.4, surely a 4.3 subchannel is in the works?


...Mel :cool:


I posted in early November I think where is was getting 4.3 and 4.4. One of the channels had Mr Rogers on. There was also a logo in the corner UNC or something
like that I guess meaning Universal NBC or whatever. It was just a load of crap, proabably the techophiles messing around seeing if they could do it.

What we are now receiving on 4.4, was very much the same type of programming that was transmitted on 4.2 before NBC started its idiotic, almost unwatchable, highly bandwidth wasteful Weather + service.

Who knows what additional unjustified, unneeded channel those wonderful people from G.E. are going to foist upon us.

Before G.E. further compresses 4.1's HD signal, don't you think and hope that NBC should firgure out how WNBC-DT should "flip" switches correctly and provide proper audio levels before they venture into dividing up its digital pie even further?

It has to do with priorities and getting your act together.

"In the public's interest, convenience and necessity."

Too many at 30 Rock and Connecticut have forgotten why they have a license!

Gary

Before G.E. further compresses 4.1's HD signal, don't you think and hope that NBC should firgure out how WNBC-DT should "flip" switches correctly?

Perhaps they need to pay out a 6 figure salary to a VP in charge of switch flipping? :D

NBC-DT's audio level sounds normal to me,but CBS-DT's audio is much,much louder than the other stations.

Hi all.....just an fyi...within the next 2 weeks, wabc 7 will be launching the accuweatrher channel probably on 7-2 or 7-3. I am an engineer for Abc Network and received the word from my good friend pete greco/transmitter engineer for wabc. He said he just received a dish to install and downlink a digital feed from accuweather. don't know what bird or transponder it comes from...will get more info on this this. found out also that the recent problems regarding no picture from either 7-1 or 7-2 is a antenna problem that wabc shares with wnyw (44-1). they seem to be interfering with 45-1 (mapped as 7-1 and 7-2).

on the signal strength.....i get around 95 (from bensonhurst, bklyn) but if you have like me an hr 10-250 direct tivo...if there is no pid info in between the two signal strength bars, you
will see no picture/audio.

later.........mrsat1

Hi all.....just an fyi...within the next 2 weeks, wabc 7 will be launching the accuweatrher channel probably on 7-2 or 7-3. I am an engineer for Abc Network and received the word from my good friend pete greco/transmitter engineer for wabc. He said he just received a dish to install and downlink a digital feed from accuweather. don't know what bird or transponder it comes from...will get more info on this this. found out also that the recent problems regarding no picture from either 7-1 or 7-2 is a antenna problem that wabc shares with wnyw (44-1). they seem to be interfering with 45-1 (mapped as 7-1 and 7-2).

on the signal strength.....i get around 95 (from bensonhurst, bklyn) but if you have like me an hr 10-250 direct tivo...if there is no pid info in between the two signal strength bars, you
will see no picture/audio.

later.........mrsat1

I believe that you are incorrect concerning your statement that WABC shares an antenna with WNYW! At least not for digital broadcasting.

WABC-DT is part of the Combiner project using WCBS-DT's omnidirectional patterned antenna.

WNYW-DT alone used its directional patterned antenna on the Empire State Building. In fact, the Fox co-owned station, WWOR-DT doesn't even use WNYW-DT's antenna, it is also is on the Combiner.

Just because stations can technically split the bandwidth, doesn't necessarily make it right.

If stations insist upon using precious bytes for new purposes, why can't they find some useful program services?

Gary

Hi gary.....this is what I was told...it appears that Wnyw eirp is causing some kind of interference problem mainly because fox 5 is on uhf 44 and wabc is on uhf 45.

one fact which is true is that the accuweather channel is coming............
mrsat1.

Hi gary.....this is what I was told...it appears that Wnyw eirp is causing some kind of interference problem mainly because fox 5 is on uhf 44 and wabc is on uhf 45.

one fact which is true is that the accuweather channel is coming............
mrsat1.

There's a lot of misinformation out there!

WNYW-DT's antenna is at 1,204 feet .

The Combiner stations, including WABC-DT, is located at 1,302 feet.

It is strange to me that the FCC would have allocated adjacent UHF channels.

Although directional, WNYW-DT's power is the highest in the New York Metropolitan area and that could be one of the problems.

Gary

It is strange to me that the FCC would have allocated adjacent UHF channels.
Gary

And they did it in the relatively new "digital" realm where one might expect the use of caution until there is more experience. I have been curious how they came to this decision myself.

If stations insist upon using precious bytes for new purposes, why can't they find some useful program services?

Gary

You don't think the 50th weather channel is useful?

And they did it in the relatively new "digital" realm where one might expect the use of caution until there is more experience. I have been curious how they came to this decision myself.

Up until last week I didn't hear any complaints about WNYW/WABC. I may be having a brain fart here but they've been on adjacent channels, 100 feet apart and at high power for a year now. Any new problems are not going to be because of antenna/station placement. There has to be a different reason. I noticed that since ABC returned after our complaints last week that my HDR230 no longer gets guide data, but NBC has started broadcasting since 4.4 went up. I'd have a much easier time believing that these issues are the cause of the problems than WNYW being on channel 44. :confused:

Is it possible that with the Combiner and WNYW-DT's relatively new level of high power, both being less than a year in service, that we're experiencing the negative effects of weather on WABC-DT's signal?

We're all learning how frustrating the propagation of UHF/Digital is - add to that the mysteries of multipath!

Just a thought.

Gary

Up until last week I didn't hear any complaints about WNYW/WABC. I may be having a brain fart here but they've been on adjacent channels, 100 feet apart and at high power for a year now. Any new problems are not going to be because of antenna/station placement. There has to be a different reason. I noticed that since ABC returned after our complaints last week that my HDR230 no longer gets guide data, but NBC has started broadcasting since 4.4 went up. I'd have a much easier time believing that these issues are the cause of the problems than WNYW being on channel 44. :confused:


First of all I did not say the problems were related to this. I have wondered about this placement since the channels were first assigned and I did not have the ability to see into the future back then. I have no idea what is going on the last few weeks. Having said this and having worked with RF for over 30 years I can say problems don't always show themselves right away. Adjacent channel transmitters 100 feet apart is no small thing. Adjustments drift, metallic objects nearby are moved, corrosion causes non-linear conductors, etc. I am Not saying the problem is the proximity but it is a possibility. It may at least contribute. To me, on the face of it, it seemed an odd choice.

I can't believe CBS does not broadcast the JETS in true HD all the time. Watching yesterdays game on the HD CBS HD channel was a joke. a 4:3 stand image pumped up to 1080i, it looked terrible. This is a disservice to all JETS fans and shows what CBS really thinks about the JETS and the fans. The 4:00 game was great, Cowboys and Chiefs in true HD, too bad the JETS did look that good. FOX shows all the GIANTS games in true HD as well as a ton of others.

As it's been posted many times before, CBS shows 3 games a week in HD.

If they Jets didn't suck so bad this year, I'm sure more of their games would be in HD. I'd assume that CBS tries to pick the best 3 games week week to show in HD and generally, the Jets aren't one of them.

The networks are usually biased in favor of teams that call themselves New York, even when they're really New Jersey teams. However, look at the Jets record. They're just playing for draft position now. I didn't watch any of the game, but I'll bet the stands were half empty.

CBS only picks the "top" 3 games each week to produce in HD. The (2-10) Jets didn't make the cut this week.

I can't believe CBS does not broadcast the JETS in true HD all the time. CBS only does 3 HD games a week. It should be obvious why the Jets weren't in HD this week.

The networks are usually biased in favor of teams that call themselves New York, even when they're really New Jersey teams.

If your from VA then mind your own business on this one. That stadium is exactly 8 miles from downtown Manhattan. Also, most of the people in the stands are from the NY area. The Jets train on Long Island and have their corporate offices in Manhattan. These teams are about as New York as one can get. Someone like you from out of town wouldn't have a clue about this. Just because the Dallas Cowboys play in Irving, Texas does not mean they are not Dallas's team. What a dumb response you gave. :mad:

If your from VA then mind your own business on this one. That stadium is exactly 8 miles from downtown Manhattan. Also, most of the people in the stands are from the NY area. The Jets train on Long Island and have their corporate offices in Manhattan. These teams are about as New York as one can get. Someone like you from out of town wouldn't have a clue about this. Just because the Dallas Cowboys play in Irving, Texas does not mean they are not Dallas's team. What a dumb response you gave. :mad:

Sheez! Switch to decaf! I'm a Pittsburgh native living in exile and Steelers fan who also makes fun of the Maryland Deadskins. Heinz Field, and Three Rivers before that are stadiums owned by and located in the city of Pittsburgh.

As soon as the Jest and Giants play in their corporate offices, I'll call them New York.

Lighten up, Scott.

Talk about lightening up. Why don't you go back to your own group, and stay out of our NYC OTA group. No one needs you here. Most people here are very cordial and helpful to each other here. No one needs any Steeler fans commenting on our teams here. Go talk to the Pittsburgh people.

The Jets& Gaints will spend 1.5 bellion to rebuild in N.J Are they still a N.Y team???

New York team / New Jersey team, give me a break, like it really matters.
Call it whatever makes you happier.

It’s all NYC money anyway. Jersey is just another borough, (the 6th for all of you out-of-towners). The state, specifically the northern part of NJ, wouldn’t survive if it weren’t for NYC. Bring back the commuter tax and lower my property taxes.

Yea. Lets get back to OTA NEW YORK.

Talk about lightening up. Why don't you go back to your own group, and stay out of our NYC OTA group. No one needs you here. Most people here are very cordial and helpful to each other here. No one needs any Steeler fans commenting on our teams here. Go talk to the Pittsburgh people.

When I replied, the thread was in the HDTV Programming area, not here. My reply was a bit tounge-in-cheek, but was not an attack. It was also valid. The Jets are a very bad team this year. The Networks would normally LOVE to showcase the big market, New Jersey/New York area even if they were just an average team.

Big market = big ratings = big bias toward New Jersey/New York.

It would be nice if all the games were in HD, and they probably will in a year or 2.

Merry Christmas!
http://members.cox.net/bpade/Santa3.gif

i am new here, this whole DTV/HDTV is brand new to me. i live in bensonhurst and i purchased a Syntax 26inch LCD TV and a Digital Stream HD3150 OTA tuner/decoder and i've been able to get rock solid DTV/HDTV for a few days now. Initially i only had two channels when i set up everything, but after reading around i realized i had to aim my antenna. i point my antenna parallel to cropsey ave if you guys know the brooklyn area well and ive been able to get all the major networks at above 85% signal strength.

I was having trouble with NBC 4.1 and NET 13.1 last night. Just me, or anyone else? NBC is usually no problem for me. Maybe the weather.

Anyone know the TV Guide on screen host channel is here? It should be an analog channel on the VHF band but I'm not sure which one?

Anyone know the TV Guide on screen host channel is here? It should be an analog channel on the VHF band but I'm not sure which one?

Not sure what you are asking.

The cablevision digital/HDTV program guide is on 94.6 (mapped to 100 on the I.O. box)

The analog guide is on Cable channel 14.

Are one of these what you are looking for?

No, OTA channel if you would help me out please?

Ahh, I thought the TV was supposed to figure it out on its own. It seems like there are some threads in the "display/rear projection units" section of the forum. Maybe someone there can help you.

No I mean the Guide data for some OTA HD DVRs? Anyone have that info?

There is at least one thread talking about TV Guide On Screen in that section. Some TVs use the data too. It seems some of them are not working as well as they should. I don't have a DVR or TV that uses it. I found this web site http://www.vgi.com/support/2004/faq/listings.asp which does not answer your question. I am pretty sure we are talking about the same thing. Sorry if we are not.

Thanks for your help netman, but finally I found out from searching though a hidden diag. message in my HD DVR that the TV Guide on Screen channel for NYC is Fox 5 analog. I hope when the analog channel gets turned off they will continue broadcasting that signal on the digital channel and that my HD DVR will receive it. Oh FYI I'm using the LG LST-3410A as my HD DVR. I read somewhere the guide is embedded in broadcast in the vertical lines or something like that. Thanks again and I hope this help others out.

Anyone know the TV Guide on screen host channel is here? It should be an analog channel on the VHF band but I'm not sure which one?

WNET Channel 13.

If that is the case then why did my HD DVR report it as channel 5? If that is so then I hope they boost power to their digital signal. Maybe I have to post the hexdecimal code the HD DVR gave me to either confirm or reject that statement above.

I've been using cable to fill all my HD needs for awhile now, but after building a Windows MCE box so I can record three HD shows at once when the need arises (two on my SA 8300HD, one on the MCE box), I'm diving back into the realm OTA realm. I'd forgotten that WNYW is also on the ESB along with the combiner--for some reason, I'm having great difficulty tuning them in (ditto WNBC and WNET) though WCBS, WWOR, WPIX and WABC are coming in just fine. I'm using a Radio Shack antenna pointed northeast that's placed on the inside windowsill of my 2nd floor East Village apartment (a window that points onto an airshaft, as do all my northern windows). Any tips on how to orient the antenna so that I can get everything?

update on accuweather channel....(12-15-2005)
according to my good friend pete from wabc engineering who states the live channel will debut on either 7-2 or the new channel 7-3 during the 1st week of January, 06.
mrsat1..............

update on accuweather channel....(12-15-2005)
according to my good friend pete from wabc engineering who states the live channel will debut on either 7-2 or the new channel 7-3 during the 1st week of January, 06.
mrsat1..............

No surprise there...the Philadelphia ABC affiliate WPVI-DT has an AccuWeather channel on 6-3 (UHF 64-3), which can be pulled in on a very good tropo night from Bergen County, NJ...last time I pulled it in was in August during some fierce thunderstorms.

More compression from WABC-DT means 7-1's picture quality of the HD programming to degrade in the least bit slightly. :(


...Mel :cool:

WPVI-DT in Philadelphia is more than an ABC affiliate, it's an owned and operated station and for years has been the highest rated station carrying ABC programming.

I would imagine that this new weather channel, just what we all need, will be implemented across the ABC stations. I just hope that it will be better than NBC's feeble attempt with its Weather +.

Hey broadcasters, bytes are a precious commodity, don't waste them on poorly executed, un-needed divisions of the bandwidth.

We want our HDTV!

Gary

Has anybody else noticed a drop in signal strength on WNET-DT? I was getting a good solid signal until last night when it dropped out. Am not receiving it at all today also.

When I was receiving it, I was also having lockup and reboot problems on both my Samsung boxes. Rescanning cures the problem for about 15 minutes, until I guess they change something in their PSIP data and they lockup again.

Anybody having this problem with their Samsung boxes on WNET-DT? Decoding on Zenith HDV-420 is fine when I had signal.

for uhf 30 which was 31.1 31.2 31.3 and 31.4 now just displays 31 and for the channel it displays the letter i. I don't always get it though. Mostly at night. Channel 13.1 13.2 13.3 has really improved its actually watchable lately. CBS and FOX 5 are terrible comes in and out too much. The only station I rarely had problems with is WNBC. I live in Bergen county near Paramus.


GPCOPY

Has anybody else noticed a drop in signal strength on WNET-DT? I was getting a good solid signal until last night when it dropped out. Am not receiving it at all today also.

When I was receiving it, I was also having lockup and reboot problems on both my Samsung boxes. Rescanning cures the problem for about 15 minutes, until I guess they change something in their PSIP data and they lockup again.

Anybody having this problem with their Samsung boxes on WNET-DT? Decoding on Zenith HDV-420 is fine when I had signal.

Was able to watch 13-1 last night (Coldplay was on) and signal seemed fine on my D* 360 tuner.

Speaking of PSIP data, I noticed that on my Zenith plasma OTA tuner, almost EVERY channel now comes up in the on-screen guide with actual show info and listings....whereas the last time I checked my parents Samsung T-151 OTA tuner most every channel had no real programming/channel info.

Did something change in the last XXX months or is the Samsung OTA tuner unable to decode the PSIP data that is coming down whereas the Zenith internal tuner CAN decode it ???

:confused:

I've also noticed a BIG improvement in WNET & WLIW over the last few months.

I've also noticed a BIG improvement in WNET & WLIW over the last few months.

Which direction is your antenna aimed? I live in NE Queens and I cannot get HD WNET or WLIW. I can get HD ABC, CBS, NBC, UPN, & WB, but I want the local PBS-HD channels. BTW, what is the channel # for WLIW-HD?

TIA...JL

Which direction is your antenna aimed? I live in NE Queens and I cannot get HD WNET or WLIW. I can get HD ABC, CBS, NBC, UPN, & WB, but I want the local PBS-HD channels. BTW, what is the channel # for WLIW-HD?

TIA...JL


WLIW is Channel 22 and the antenna is oposite direction of Channel 13 at Empire State. Transmitter is by north service road of LIE at exit 48. Unless something changed in the last few days WLIW has NO HD jsut SD on 21.2 and 21.3

Was able to watch 13-1 last night (Coldplay was on) and signal seemed fine on my D* 360 tuner.

Speaking of PSIP data, I noticed that on my Zenith plasma OTA tuner, almost EVERY channel now comes up in the on-screen guide with actual show info and listings....whereas the last time I checked my parents Samsung T-151 OTA tuner most every channel had no real programming/channel info.

Did something change in the last XXX months or is the Samsung OTA tuner unable to decode the PSIP data that is coming down whereas the Zenith internal tuner CAN decode it ???

:confused:


I had a Samsung SIRT150 until a few weeks ago until it sort of died and replaced it with a Samsung SIRT451. I too have noticed the listings but I'm not sure if it is the electronics or things changed.

I'm in Jamaica ,Queens and I can't receive WNET or WLIW either,although oddly enough I can get NJN perfectly fine with only 20-25 on the signal meter on my Accurian.I am also getting surprisingly great reception with the RS 2.99 bowtie,it's actually much better than the amplified 45db antennas I've tried.

"...WLIW Ch22 its antenna is opposite direction of Channel 13 at Empire State...."

Wow. Can you tell us what seem to be the bearings of that WNET antenna?
Like most here, my main interest is that WNET HDTV signal... the one I hope is being honed for broadcasts in ATSC ! I'd be ashamed to admit to all the time and obsessing I've invested in getting best sig from PBS (mostly my compromise is C-band satellite ...from Nebraska, of course (Honest!) It'd encourage me to know if the antenna destined to radiate PBS in ATSC for NYC metro area is not just vaporware at present. It burns me to go NET's website and get bounced around with no plainspoke answers. Shame we faithful must contnuously sniff around for rumors, intermittent excited reports of sightings with inconstant geography. But it'll be a grand day to get a solid lock on NOVA 1080i here 40 miles due north of ESB. By then I'll be lucky if I am young enuf to hear see or care!

WNET-DT transmits an omnidirectional signal from the Combiner atop of the Empire State Building.

Unfortuantely, the signal is at very low power and usies a high channel allocation - #61.

Hope this helps,

Gary

Which direction is your antenna aimed? I live in NE Queens and I cannot get HD WNET or WLIW. I can get HD ABC, CBS, NBC, UPN, & WB, but I want the local PBS-HD channels. BTW, what is the channel # for WLIW-HD?

TIA...JL

I live in South Brooklyn (Flatbush) and have the exact same situation. I get 0 signal on 13.1 but get HD ABC, CBS, NBC, UPN, & WB with 80% or greater signal on WatchHDTV. I have a roof mounted antenna and use either the ATI HDTV Wonder or the USB Fusion system on my laptop.

I don't understand this because PBS is supposed to be part of the combiner just as the others are.

WNET-DT transmits an omnidirectional signal from the Combiner atop of the Empire State Building.

Unfortuantely, the signal is at very low power and usies a high channel allocation - #61.

Others here, however who seem to be further away seem to be getting WNET/


Any ideas about what can be done?

Although various stations transmit from the same antenna, the Combiner, each has its own amount of power, each has its own channel allocation. Those two factors are extremely important when it comes to the quality of reception.

Add to that, if your do not have line-of-sight to the transmitting antenna, you may very well be plagued with multipath reception. In addition, weather conditions, including the amount of moisture in the air, will affect reception.

There are so many varialbles - enough to drive you crazy!

Gary

I have TWC and can get the PBS-HD national feed, but I would like the local programming as well. I have a roof mounted VHF/UHF antenna and as stated earlier, I can get the major network HD channels OTA, but not WNET. Do I need a signal amp?

Roger L. - I'm in NE Jamaica, so we're neighbors.

BTW, my nephew lives four blocks further east and can receive WNET-HD using a RS indoor HD antenna facing west - sitting in a closet! That is weird.

Regards....JL

Does anyone else see frequent macroblocking in NJN's HD Channel 50.5? My signal strength meter seems steady at 80+ and the SNR is 26.

I am poor (in resources) ...BUT IF I were rich ...Or even merely "Comfortable"... I would bequeathe a directed gift of generous cash to WNET-HD which stipulates it must use to augment a 1st rate HD signal. Directed North and Up so I can watch it from Paradise.

If you, Dear Reader, are "Comfortable" yet not so "Comfortable" as would tend to prevent or delay your rapid and regretfully untimely death... do the Right Thing, for once in your wicked life- huh?

I hope this is the correct forum. It's a cable/OTA question, so I wasn't sure if I should post here or in the NY TWC forum.

My inlaws just dumped Dish Network in favor of Time Warner Cable in Queens. They have the HD package with the Pioneer HD receiver. I have yet to see the box, so I don't know which model it is.

I'm wondering, is this box capable of receiving and integrating OTA signals like my HD DirecTiVo (HR10-250)? I'd like to install a roof antenna for them and I want to make sure this will work.

They had Time Warner before switching to Dish, but then, they did not have HD. That was a few years ago. They had problems with the cable going out and they eventually got fed up. When they saw my DirecTv picture they were impressed and wanted to switch to satellite. However, they chose Dish instead of DirecTv.

Anyway, now they're back to cable. I just want to get an antenna installed, so in the event of a cable outage, they can at least view OTA channels.

Thanks in advance for any help.

I'm wondering, is this box capable of receiving and integrating OTA signals like my HD DirecTiVo (HR10-250)? I'd like to install a roof antenna for them and I want to make sure this will work.

Thanks in advance for any help.

What is the purpose of this? TWC-NYC carries all the local HD channels except WB, UPN and NJN. There is PBS-HD, but it is the national feed. If your in-laws don't have an onboard ATSC/HD tuner on their set, the are out of luck because the TWC STBs cannot be used for OTA programming.

I've had TWC since 1985 and have NEVER a complete cable TV outage, so your concerns are unwarranted. If you still want to install a roof antenna, 99% of the TVs on the market have multi antenna input capability (ANT1/ANT2).

Hope this helps...JL

What is the purpose of this? TWC-NYC carries all the local HD channels except WB, UPN and NJN. There is PBS-HD, but it is the national feed. If your in-laws don't have an onboard ATSC/HD tuner on their set, the are out of luck because the TWC STBs cannot be used for OTA programming.

I've had TWC since 1985 and have NEVER a complete cable TV outage, so your concerns are unwarranted. If you still want to install a roof antenna, 99% of the TVs on the market have multi antenna input capability (ANT1/ANT2).

Hope this helps...JL

The WB will be an issue come baseball season (Mets fans).

I don't know where you are in the TWC NYC market, but in the Rockaways in Queens, they had plenty of outages a few years back. Again, that's the reason that they ditched cable in the first place.

Unfortunately, they do not have a tuner. They have the Panasonic TH-42PHD7UY.

Thanks.

Anyone using the Accurian receiver and having problems with WNBC-DT? I picked up one of these a few days ago and it seems to work fine, except for the channel remapping on WNBC-DT. When you do a channel scan, it does not seem to find 4.1, 4.2, etc. If you punch in CH 28 on the remote it will receive 4.1, but the readout will show 28.1 and I dont get the other subchannels. All the other NYC DTV stations are remapping properly, so I dont know if it is something with WNBC's PSIP data, or a bug in the Accurian firmware.

Does anyone else notice this with the Accurian, or is it only my box?

I believe you are right about the Accurian,I just did a scan,it didn't find 4.1.4.4,etc.it scanned in 28.1,28.2, and 28.3 last week,but not during this most recent scan,maybe the PSIP is all messed up.I've notice reception on WNBC-DT is more difficult now than it was only a few weeks ago.

hi there, i live in manhattan (8th and broadway) and was wondering which OTA HD channels were available? I have TWC but i want to setup my htpc to record HD as well (hd tuner, attenna, etc).

can i even get reception with an indoor antenna in an apartment?

Lastly, sorry if this is a super newb question but, i obviously can't just use a splitter with the coax cable coming from twc and put that directly into my htpc tuner right? Just making sure... :rolleyes:

I have TWC and can get the PBS-HD national feed, but I would like the local programming as well. I have a roof mounted VHF/UHF antenna and as



13-1 is the National PBS HD feed.
13-2 is PBS Kids
13-3 not sure but, not the same as Wnet 13 analog

So what you have on TWC is probably the same as you would get if could get WNET-DT OTA.

At least this was the way it was a couple weeks ago last I looked at WNET-DT OTA.

Hello,

I got a new Sony KDS-R60XBR1 today. It's a real beauty.

I'm having some problems receiving HDTV OTA. I'm in 07090, Westfield NJ (Union Co.). 19.0 miles from Empire State, according to AntennaWeb.

More details:
1. I started out trying a Zenith Silver Sensor. Not much luck - I get reception, then it gets pixelated, the signal cuts out and TV says "no signal." Then the signal comes back but the problem will repeat again, over and over. Turned and repositioned the antenna without luck. What's going on? Is the Silver Sensor just no good?

2. Then I tried my 30-year-old rooftop antenna. Previously I had thought it was a VHF only model, but I seem to be getting UHF channels. 2.1 was coming in great at 5 p.m., but at 11 p.m. I was getting "No Signal." 5.1 came in OK both times, but no luck with 4.1, 7.1 or 11.1 - No signal on all of those. Any ideas as to what's going on?

Thanks so much!
David

NBC-DT's audio level sounds normal to me,but CBS-DT's audio is much,much louder than the other stations.

So the very LOUD CBS-HD audio IS caused by the broadcaster and NOT the cable company. What makes it ever worse is that the commercials are even LOUDER (G)

I find myself actually skipping channel 2 when surfing just so I don't have to get blasted with sound.

So the very LOUD CBS-HD audio IS caused by the broadcaster and NOT the cable company. What makes it ever worse is that the commercials are even LOUDER (G)

I find myself actually skipping channel 2 when surfing just so I don't have to get blasted with sound.

Well at least they show not the slightest motivation to change it! I wonder if they actually LIKE that their audio is 10DB louder than everyone elses? It really IS annoying.

Hello,

I got a new Sony KDS-R60XBR1 today. It's a real beauty.

I'm having some problems receiving HDTV OTA. I'm in 07090, Westfield NJ (Union Co.). 19.0 miles from Empire State, according to AntennaWeb.

More details:
1. I started out trying a Zenith Silver Sensor. Not much luck - I get reception, then it gets pixelated, the signal cuts out and TV says "no signal." Then the signal comes back but the problem will repeat again, over and over. Turned and repositioned the antenna without luck. What's going on? Is the Silver Sensor just no good?

2. Then I tried my 30-year-old rooftop antenna. Previously I had thought it was a VHF only model, but I seem to be getting UHF channels. 2.1 was coming in great at 5 p.m., but at 11 p.m. I was getting "No Signal." 5.1 came in OK both times, but no luck with 4.1, 7.1 or 11.1 - No signal on all of those. Any ideas as to what's going on?

Thanks so much!
David

The SS is the best indoor antenna you can get but it doesn't match what an outdoor antenna can do. Your rooftop antenna may still be good, but I'll bet it's not aimed properly and the connectors may be no good. You may want to have a pro come in and clean up the wiring for you if you're not comfortable on the roof.

WNET does not have a local HD feed. NJN also carries the national feed but only from 8:00pm to Midnight

http://www.thirteen.org/watchHD/



What is the purpose of this? TWC-NYC carries all the local HD channels except WB, UPN and NJN. There is PBS-HD, but it is the national feed. If your in-laws don't have an onboard ATSC/HD tuner on their set, the are out of luck because the TWC STBs cannot be used for OTA programming.

I've had TWC since 1985 and have NEVER a complete cable TV outage, so your concerns are unwarranted. If you still want to install a roof antenna, 99% of the TVs on the market have multi antenna input capability (ANT1/ANT2).

Hope this helps...JL

Anyone else "Getting" WNYE-DT (pbs 25???) over the last few days? I happened to check a few days ago....and I had no signal. Then this AM at about 6am I happened to flip by again....and I had a lockable signal (Yoga program). Did they "up" their power....or are/were they in testing mode??

I'm in Central NJ and I picked it up on my CM4228 roof mounted antenna with a CM pre-amp (it's been so darn long....7775??) via my D* Hughes e86 STB.

I ran a scan on my Accurian tonight,got 24-1,which is apparently WNYE 25(never was able to receive it before)so it's quite possible they upped their power.

Like everyone else I'm frustrated that I can't watch thirteen's programming on DTV, let alone in HD. I live just a few miles West of Newark, and while my analog reception is lousy, digital reception is generally good. Just not the same shows.

So I was cautiosly optimistic when looking at the channel listings at titantv which shows WNETDT3 channel 13.3 as rebroadcasting the analog lineup. But alas, when I went to my TV I found it was still showing "World."

Is there anything new on Thirteen's web site about OTA broadcasts? No of course, not on their digital page they list all the cable channels. But click on "learn more" and there is a link to an "HDTV Survey."

Fill out the survey, tell them you want OTA digital broadcasts of the same shows they broadcast in analog.

(I tried to include the actual links but it seems I'm not senior enough for that.)

Like everyone else I'm frustrated that I can't watch thirteen's programming on DTV

Not EVERYONE else. I could not care about this. PBS-HD has anything I want to see and shows them more often than 13 does. The SD content does not matter to me; analog is fine for that stuff. I honestly don't see what I am missing.

The the last couple of days I haven't been able to get audio on either 4-1 or 4-2. I've tried deleting and re-adding the station but still no luck.

I have an older (5+ years) Zenith but since the other NY HD stations are still coming in I wonder if it's a problem with NBC.

Any suggesions or comments?

Thanks.

C

Hmmm - maybe a PSIP problem? I noticed tonight that I'm now getting 4-4 in addition to 4-1 and 4-2 (but none of them with sound). 4-4 is a stretched, very low rez picture. I have no idea what it's supposed to be.

Does NBC ever look at this thread?

Thanks.

There does seem to be something different about WNBC-DT PSIP data. As I mentioned in a previous post, Ch 28 is not remapping to 4.1, 4.2, etc. on my Accurian box. All other DTV stations ( with the exception of CH53 which is all screwed up) remap properly. I can see 4.1 if enter Ch 28 manually on the remote which comes up as 28.1, but it wont find it if I rescan.

They seem to have been playing with their PSIP with the addition of 4.4 recently, so maybe they messed up something else in the process and dont realize it?

It would be nice if the local broadcasters did take a look at this thread once in a while and see how their signals are actually being received in the field! Just take WCBS-DT's 10 dB too high audio level as an example!

Well, the Channel 4 website doesn't list any technical staff in their email list, so I sent information about my problem to their investigative unit, with a reference to this URL. I don't know if this will help, but if nothing else the unit should be able to contact NBC tech staff.

T

It would be nice if the local broadcasters did take a look at this thread once in a while and see how their signals are actually being received in the field! Just take WCBS-DT's 10 dB too high audio level as an example!

CBS has always been too loud, you think they would have adjusted it by now.
I do give them credit however, for the best picture during HD football games. I don't know if its just me but their picture seems noticabley better than ABC or Fox. Keep up the good work guys!

Since 4:00PM on 12/24/05 I cannot receive FOX (chan #5). All the NFL games now appear on ESPN but my STB reports no signal on channel 5.

I am picking up all the other local channels as always!

[QUOTE=Phil Hightech]CBS has always been too loud, you think they would have adjusted it by now. ]

It seems impossible that CBS is not aware of their high audio level. As someone posted here a few days ago, they must like it that way.

I went as far as contacting the Dolby Rep from the NYC area to try and get all the area broadcasters to standardize their audio levels. ( Dolby makes the digital audio encoders used at all the stations) He was well aware of the situation and was going to arrange a meeting to discuss the problem with the local station engineers. That was almost a year ago, and there has been absolutely no change!

Part of the problem lies in the way that the DTV audio levels are set. According to the Dolby AC-3 standard which is incorporated into the ATSC system, audio level is actually encoded into the program data stream by the program producer. That means that basically the producer of a program or commercial can make his dialog audio level as loud as he wants, with the broadcaster having only limited ability to adjust the level.

So, it may not actually be up to the local station to determine how loud his audio sounds to the DTV viewer. I am curious whether the high CBS audio level is actually being set by the network feed, and if the local station has no choice but to broadcast it as received.

[QUOTE=Phil Hightech]CBS has always been too loud, you think they would have adjusted it by now. ]

It seems impossible that CBS is not aware of their high audio level. As someone posted here a few days ago, they must like it that way.


I am curious whether the high CBS audio level is actually being set by the network feed, and if the local station has no choice but to broadcast it as received.

Let us assume the stations do nothing but take the network digital stream and pump it out over the air. In this case CBS New York still needs to match its local program audio to the insane high level. A search of other local broadcast threads would show if others have noted the high level.

[QUOTE=Phil Hightech]CBS has always been too loud, you think they would have adjusted it by now. ]

It seems impossible that CBS is not aware of their high audio level. As someone posted here a few days ago, they must like it that way.

I went as far as contacting the Dolby Rep from the NYC area to try and get all the area broadcasters to standardize their audio levels. ( Dolby makes the digital audio encoders used at all the stations) He was well aware of the situation and was going to arrange a meeting to discuss the problem with the local station engineers. That was almost a year ago, and there has been absolutely no change!

Part of the problem lies in the way that the DTV audio levels are set. According to the Dolby AC-3 standard which is incorporated into the ATSC system, audio level is actually encoded into the program data stream by the program producer. That means that basically the producer of a program or commercial can make his dialog audio level as loud as he wants, with the broadcaster having only limited ability to adjust the level.

So, it may not actually be up to the local station to determine how loud his audio sounds to the DTV viewer. I am curious whether the high CBS audio level is actually being set by the network feed, and if the local station has no choice but to broadcast it as received.


I would be surprised if adjusting/limiting/compressing the audio level before broadcast is that difficult. I use a program called AC3filter to adjust the audio stream levels (on the fly) in my HTPC before sending to the receiver. Since ATSC broadcasting is so new, I think they just haven't reached the chapter in the owner's manual on Setting the Audio Level :) All the other broadcasters seem to have it right. Perhaps they just want to be the loudest signal out there. Remember WCBS FM with all that echo and compression. Maybe they transferred the engineer from CBS FM (when they switched to the JACK format) to WCBS-DT! LOL
But seriously, I am going to complain to them as well.
-Phil

Phil Hightech,

If you or anyone else contacts WCBS-DT about their high audio level, please also discuss their incorrect handling of their 5.1-channel audio. Like WABC-DT, which has been doing the same thing for a long time, they insert the two channels of their local stereo signal into only the left and right front channels of the 5.1-channel signal leaving the other four channels empty. This gives a hollow sounding signal that is not comfortable to listen to and prevents receivers from switching to Dolby Prologic to derive a center and surround channel. They should either convert the stereo signal to a proper 5.1-channel signal and insert it into all 6 channels or switch to 2-channel Dolby Digital audio. WNBC-DT handles this correctly (except that they use 3-channels which also works fine).

WCBS-DTs local signal is more like 12 to 13 db louder than other channels. The CBS network signal is approximately 7 db louder than other channels. I think the stations won't really care until a majority of viewers are watching their digital channels.

Cynthia

please also discuss their incorrect handling of their 5.1-channel audio. ....only the left and right front channels of the 5.1-channel signal leaving the other four channels empty.

Cynthia

I can't count how many times I have run up to my center channel thinking it was broken!

So who we gonna call?

Problems with CBS-DT were reported long before I started this thread, although most of them were about the irritating difference between the HD volume compared to locally inserted SD-upconverted ads.

Since WCBS' technical people read (or at least used to read) the thread--and were very responsive in dealing with problems--I can only assume that the volume difference is due to a management directive. Perhaps when local commercials suddenly blare from their sets, the suits hear only the ka-ching of revenue, and not the clacks and curses as local listners fumble for their remotes and cuss at the blaring sound...

C

ABC-DT's volume is too low and stuck in 5.1 mode 24x7!
That is just as bad as CBS being too high.

Since WCBS' technical people read (or at least used to read) the thread--and were very responsive in dealing with problems--I can only assume that the volume difference is due to a management directive. Perhaps when local commercials suddenly blare from their sets, the suits hear only the ka-ching of revenue, and not the clacks and curses as local listners fumble for their remotes and cuss at the blaring sound...

C

I used to have CBS- HD as the default start up channel... it was so LOUD I changed to NBC HD...now I surf up through the HD channels and usually find something good to watch before getting back to CBS....if this behavior catches on it can't be good for the CBS ratings.

has anybody in northern new jersey (close to paramus, bergenfield area) had any experience with using winegard gs1100 to ge OTA hd signal?

I need help in aiming my winegard gs1100 installed. how to you point the antenna to the tower? should the "bat wing" be aligned in the direction of the station or should it face the station perpendicularly.... thanks much.

tungaw

haven't be able to receive WNBC-DT for days now.The plus side to that is I haven't seen that craptastic weather channel or 4.4 either,lol.

Don't forget those wonderful and highly rated shows on 4.1.

Your loss is your gain!

Gary

I just got a RCA HDTV tuner on loan, and the only local channels I haven't been able to receive are WNBC-DT (28) and WNYE-DT (24), even though I'm only 5.2 resp. 1.1 miles from the transmission towers. All other channels come in at strengths between 80 and 95, which should be sufficient. At first I thought this might have to do with my antenna setup, even though analog channel 25 comes in fine. WNBC-DT shows me program information, but no picture: the tuner reports weak signal.

Seems unbelievable a major network like NBC wouldn't be able to stay on air... I guess, that is welcome to DTV broadcasts :)

-Geert

Not surprising - the WNBC consumer help people ignored the email I sent them asking for help with their own station.

Meanwhile, it's been over a week since my set's tuner has received audio on NBC-DT. The problem seems to have started about the time they added 4-4.

I guess if I can't contact them I'll file a complaint with the FCC - not that I suspect it will help either. Still, I'd think that a station broadcasting over public airways with a signal that is not (I suspect) totally standards-compliant must be doing less than serving the public. :mad:

Thanks.

Rick

haven't be able to receive WNBC-DT for days now.The plus side to that is I haven't seen that craptastic weather channel or 4.4 either,lol.

Are you having the reception problem with the Radio Shack Accurian? I still cant find WNBC-DT on the Accurian when I scan, although it is channel mapping to 4.1, 4.2 and 4.4 on the Samsung and Zenith receivers I have.

yes,I'm using the Accurian,on my most recent scan a few minutes ago,28.1,etc,and 4.1,etc don't show up,but I can watch them because they were stored in the memory on previous scans.Reception on WNBC-DT resumed for me early on Thursday.

Does anyone know the origin of the programming on 13.1 and 51.5? Is one of them the PBS HD feed (if not always in HD)? Where does the other one originate? Does anyone know why the programming on 51.5 is repeated for 7 days?

Does anyone know the origin of the programming on 13.1 and 51.5? Is one of them the PBS HD feed (if not always in HD)? Where does the other one originate? Does anyone know why the programming on 51.5 is repeated for 7 days?

IIRC, 13-1 is the PBS HD national feed...and 51-5/43-5/8-5 are the local NJN HD feed (with a seemingly less significant set of shows).

Anyone else "lose" 13-1:3 digital over the weekend? Everytime I checked over the weekend I had NO SIGNAL on the subchannels. Weird. ??
:confused:

Anyone in the Rockland County area (Spring Valley zip 10977, or Chestnut Ridge 10952)?
How good is your reception OTA HD by channel?

Anyone in the Rockland County area (Spring Valley zip 10977, or Chestnut Ridge 10952)?
How good is your reception OTA HD by channel?
Nanuet 10954
I get: 2-1 * 4-1 * 4-2 * 4-3 * 5-1*5-2(WOR-SD)*
7-1* 7-2* 9-1 *9-2(FOX-SD)* 11-1 * 11-2 *13-1 * 13-2 *13-3 *
21-2* 21-3* 31-1 *41-1* 50-1* 50-2* 50-3* 50-4* 50-5 *53-1 *
I also use a rotor with my antenna.
Sometimes the station number change back to their Digital station numbers, like right now 5-1 and 5-2 are 44-1 and 44-2.
The 50 stations do not come in all the time and lately my box freezes when it goes to 31-1 so i have to hunt with my antenna and press channel buttons until I get free again, it's a real pain in the ass sometimes.
All New York stations come in great. 11 and 13 pixelate sometimes but if i rotate the antenna it corrects it. Sometimes weather interferes but very rarely.
Use good cable and connectors and you should get great reception

I've been experiencing some major headaches tuning in channels with my Radio Shack 15-1880 (connected to a home-built Windows MCE 2005 box I'm using as the receiver). The antenna is on the windowsill of my 2nd floor apartment in the East Village, which faces NE onto an airshaft. I point the antenna NW toward the ESB to draw in stations, and I can usually get WCBS, WNBC, WABC, WWOR and WPIX...but the thing is, I can never get them all at the same time. If I move the antenna around into a position where it picks up WNBC, I lose WPIX and WWOR. One day, WPIX may be coming in fine, but the next, I have to move the antenna around again (either scooting it side to side or rotating it) to bring the station back in. I'd love to be able to find a spot where I can get everything and leave the antenna alone and have it *just work*.

Two questions:
1) Could height be a bigger help, reception-wise, than proximity to the window? The windowsill is about 4' off the ground, but I could easily put the antenna on top of a 7' cabinet that is next to the window, though the antenna would no longer be right by it.

2) The antenna's gain is turned up to the max, because it's been difficult to get WNBC otherwise. I've heard that sometimes a lower gain can be better because there can sometimes be conflicts between high gain and a strong signal. Would lower gain + a better position help where WNBC is concerned?

This is a real pain because I want to be able to record programs on different channels while I'm out, but now have to choose between one or the other (ie between Smallville and The Office tonight) because of not being able to recieve everything at the same time.

This is a real pain because I want to be able to record programs on different channels while I'm out, but now have to choose between one or the other (ie between Smallville and The Office tonight) because of not being able to recieve everything at the same time.

There is no way to predict any of this. Indoor antennas are often a problem. Close in reception can also be. I would recommend trying everything even what seems to no make sense. Try the higher spot, try the air shaft keep trying. You may NOT find a happy medium but you may.

Hey I live right off Route 22e on the border of WestField NJ & Mountainside NJ. This is about 20 miles to the ESB. I have lots of trees and homes next to me and I Newark Airport is in between.

I have a Channel Master 4228 mounted on 10ft mast with a Titan Pre-amp. OTA is pulled in by my aging Zenith DTV 1080.

My issue is that every once in a while I lose my signal. It does drop completely but it becomes so low it no longers pulls in the station. It basically drops to the level that the preamp boosts the signal. Then one day it will mysteriously return to full signal. The dropout usually occurs on a weekend or holiday weekend. Then it returns on Monday.

I have checked the pre-amp and it seems to be still running. I have even uplugged and plugged it in. The pre-amp is plugged into a UPS.

So anyone in Westfield having similar issues? Why is this happening.

here's my experience with various indoor antennas:
most amplified antennas,10-45db(Recoton,RCA,Magnavox) were pretty mediocre at best,and could receive at most 3-4 stations.Also tried the much praised Radio Shack 15 1880,was only able to tune in 7.1,7.2,and 2.1.Bought the R S 15-1892,but it was DOA,didn't function at all,and was missing the remote.Needless to say,that POS is going back to the store muy pronto.The Radio Shack 3.99 bowtie works amazingly well,I have it clipped to one of the rods on the Recoton,with careful and patient adjusting,I can receive with 70+ signal strength:
2.1 CBS
4.1,.2,.4 NBC
5.1 FOX,5.2UPN
7.1,7.2 ABC
9.1UPN,9.2 FOX
11.1.11.2 WPIX(with very careful adjusting)
19.1,19.2.19.3(nothing there,but the Accurian scanned and stored theose stations)
24.1WNYE(some sort of sync problem,the speed of the video or film varies sometimes,somewhat like a silent movie)
28.1,.2,.3NBC
33.1,33.2WPIX
40.1 Univision
56.1 CBS
58.1.58.3,58.4,58.5NJN

I recently bought an HDTV, and I'm looking for some help. I'm in Summit, NJ, about 15 mi. due west of NYC.

My setup:

- Spectre x37SV 37"
- attic-mounted antenna
- Radio Shack signal amplifier
- Comcast analog cable (Comcast NJ)

I'm feeding the ATSC input of the x37 with the output of the signal amplifier. I'm feeding the NTSC input of the x37 from the analog cable. I fussed with the antenna orientation until I picked up stations of interest.

I am able to pick up the local HD stations I'm most interested in with the exceptiion of Ch.4 (4-1). I am able to tune manually to frequency assignment 28, but I can't make Ch.4 "stick". When I try to add 28 to my channel lineup, the x37 says "Scanning...", then "Can't find channel 28" (or something similar). So I can watch WNBC-DT, but it's a nuisance to tune to it this way. (I realize others have reported similar issues here.)

Some questions/problems:

1) Any ideas how to resolve my WNBC-DT problem?

2) Should I be able to pick up the unencrypted HD signals from Comcast? In their channel lineup, the HD stations appear around Ch.230. The x37 only claims to be able to tune channels 1-135.

3) The x37 seems unwilling to pick up (analog) Ch.77, TCM, although I can view Ch.77 by way of a tuner in my VCR or DVR. I actually contacted Sceptre about this, and they claim the signal on the cable is too weak. Their answer seemed entirely bogus. However, I also had trouble with Ch.49 (Comedy Central) last night, but it had returned this morning. Does this sound like a signal strength problem? (I've bought a CATV signal booster, and I'll try it out to see whether it makes a difference.)

Thanks for any help.
Dave Kristol

Whatever the channel 4 tech staff did, audio is back on all three of the NBC digital feeds on my set. Just a quick thanks to them all for their help! :D

C

Is there a problem with FOX from the ESB?

I'm not getting any signal at all today.

I've been watching the game, so no, there's no problem with the signal.

I'm a newbie and need a bit of advice.

I live near Brooklyn Heights on the fifth floor of a large apartment building. My indoor Terk directional pulls down NBC, ABC and FOX perfectly with a little adjusting. However channel 56 - WCBS won't come in at all. I simply get white snow, regardless of where I place the antenna.

Anybody know of a reason why I'd get all the other ESB channels fine and have trouble with CBS?

Although all of the stations you mention emanate from the ESB, and in fact, all but Fox use the same transmitting antenna, unless you have line-of-sight from your antenna to the ESB, you are receiving multipath reception - signals bouncing off of various structures before they reach your antenna.

That's just for openers.

Each station has its own power and of course, its own frequency. Add to all of that the multipath situation, mix in weather conditions, including humidity, and you have entered into the Twilight Zone of digital UHF reception. It will drive you crazy!

You may want to experiment with a Silver Sensor or a Radio Shack antenna. I use the Silver Sensor and, at least for me, it's surpassingly good.

I wish you luck.

Gary

Dave - NBC DT was having a little trouble with their PSIP and changed it a cay or so ago. Have you tried to re-scan recently?

Please post your results here. Thanks.

Cpto


I recently bought an HDTV, and I'm looking for some help. I'm in Summit, NJ, about 15 mi. due west of NYC.

My setup:

- Spectre x37SV 37"
- attic-mounted antenna
- Radio Shack signal amplifier
- Comcast analog cable (Comcast NJ)

I'm feeding the ATSC input of the x37 with the output of the signal amplifier. I'm feeding the NTSC input of the x37 from the analog cable. I fussed with the antenna orientation until I picked up stations of interest.

I am able to pick up the local HD stations I'm most interested in with the exceptiion of Ch.4 (4-1). I am able to tune manually to frequency assignment 28, but I can't make Ch.4 "stick". When I try to add 28 to my channel lineup, the x37 says "Scanning...", then "Can't find channel 28" (or something similar). So I can watch WNBC-DT, but it's a nuisance to tune to it this way. (I realize others have reported similar issues here.)

Some questions/problems:

1) Any ideas how to resolve my WNBC-DT problem?

2) Should I be able to pick up the unencrypted HD signals from Comcast? In their channel lineup, the HD stations appear around Ch.230. The x37 only claims to be able to tune channels 1-135.

3) The x37 seems unwilling to pick up (analog) Ch.77, TCM, although I can view Ch.77 by way of a tuner in my VCR or DVR. I actually contacted Sceptre about this, and they claim the signal on the cable is too weak. Their answer seemed entirely bogus. However, I also had trouble with Ch.49 (Comedy Central) last night, but it had returned this morning. Does this sound like a signal strength problem? (I've bought a CATV signal booster, and I'll try it out to see whether it makes a difference.)

Thanks for any help.
Dave Kristol

Did anyone else experience breakup on the WABC-DT broadcast of the ice skating last night? High winds at the ESB the cause?

Mel

No, but I had to delete Mad TV due to ridiculous breakups.

No, but I had to delete Mad TV due to ridiculous breakups.

yeah, they break me up too.

There's an inch or two of snow on everything, this and the high winds are the cause of the breakups.

Did anyone else experience breakup on the WABC-DT broadcast of the ice skating last night? High winds at the ESB the cause?

Mel
watched the whole thing,no breakups.

I am having big time problem this weekend on WCBS.

Yes, I saw the post about WNBC-DT on Friday, and, indeed, I can pick it up just fine now (along with 4-2 and 4-4).

I am having big time problem this weekend on WCBS.

And *I* am having severe problems with WNET-DT (channel 13) breaking up.

Dave Kristol

Did tonight's ep of 24 have an unusually high amount of artifacting (macro blocking, screen door effect, whatever) or was it just me?

Did tonight's ep of 24 have an unusually high amount of artifacting (macro blocking, screen door effect, whatever) or was it just me?


It's you...

And *I* am having severe problems with WNET-DT (channel 13) breaking up.

Dave Kristol


WNET-DT did seem to have a drop in power over the weekend, but it appears to have returned to normal today.

I keep seeing reception questions. I'm confused. Maybe everyone is spoiled by the magic of cell phones.

The "secret" of HDTV reception is


as much metal
as high as possible
OUTSIDE

Now, if you live in an apartment, you have my sympathy, as I've suffered "no antennas" too. If you have access,

Why is $150 in antenna, brackets and coax cable an issue if you are hooking it to a set which cost a minimum of $1000 ?

Indoor antennas are a waste of time for most of us. Install an exterior antenna and you'll have perfect 1080i or 720p. Even a small outdoor antenna will outperform the most "super duper" indoor wires.

Two brackets, two or three sections of 5 foot mast, and an antenna under $100, along with some premade coax and attachments.

Just like in 1955, except for coax instead of twinlead.

Why is $150 in antenna, brackets and coax cable an issue if you are hooking it to a set which cost a minimum of $1,000?

Finally, a voice of reason! Oh, don't forget the "wife won't let me put up an antenna" excuse! It must be a real drag to be on that short leash :eek:

does anyone here use a smallish outdoor antenna like the RS U75R indoors?I don't mean in the attic,I mean in the same room where the tv is located.How good(or bad)is the reception?

usually people get teh silver senser for such applications

I wasn't able to get channel 2 (WCBS) all day Sunday, though it appears to be back this morning. Was it just me, or did others have similar experience?

Dave Kristol

Watched football on WCBS-DT using my indoor antenna - nothing out of the ordinary about the reception yesterday.

Gary

Hello, everyone... I've been enjoying OTA HD in Bloomfield, NJ for a couple years now, used AVSForum to research my Sony GWII but never had a reason to find this thread before now...

So I'll start with a question about a really odd problem (at least I think it's odd)... any idea why 5.1 (Fox WNYW-HD) disappeared on me, but after a channel scan I find that I'm getting Fox HD on 44.3? I know that WNYW is really on 44 (even though I've been tuning to 5.1 in the past), but I have no signal on 44.1 or 44.2.

I have a lot of metal very high up in the air :-) (Weingard on a 10 foot pole on top of a 2 story house), signal strength has been an intermittent issue, but in this case when I tune to 5.1 and check signal strength it's nonexistent.

Feel free to ask me leading questions that might imply that I have no idea what the heck I'm doing... you probably wouldn't be wrong...

Hello, everyone... I've been enjoying OTA HD in Bloomfield, NJ for a couple years now, used AVSForum to research my Sony GWII but never had a reason to find this thread before now...

So I'll start with a question about a really odd problem (at least I think it's odd)... any idea why 5.1 (Fox WNYW-HD) disappeared on me, but after a channel scan I find that I'm getting Fox HD on 44.3? I know that WNYW is really on 44 (even though I've been tuning to 5.1 in the past), but I have no signal on 44.1 or 44.2.

I have a lot of metal very high up in the air :-) (Weingard on a 10 foot pole on top of a 2 story house), signal strength has been an intermittent issue, but in this case when I tune to 5.1 and check signal strength it's nonexistent.

Feel free to ask me leading questions that might imply that I have no idea what the heck I'm doing... you probably wouldn't be wrong...


There really is only 1 "channel". That would be 44. All the rest are data constructs. If you look through the thread you will get the idea that stations get pretty lax with setting up their data stream sometimes. In the data stream is the info that tells your TV to call a certain "program" 5.1 or 5.2 . It is possible FOX is messing with the data stream and it is now not in complete compliance with the structure your TV expects.

I recently set up my HDTV with a CM 4228 on a 5ft mast on top of my roof and pointed it in the direction that a website had advised me to and did not receive any channels.I'm located in Forest Hills Queens in a 2 story house and surrounded by very tall buildings and felt that they were blocking the signal.So
I experimented a bit by turning the antenna until I received something.Lo and
behold it was pointed 180 degrees away from where it should be pointed at.
The signal was somewhat unstable and I could not get all of the locals I wanted
so I attached the CM 7777 preamp and was very suprised that it didn't change the signal strength whatsoever.Thinking that it was defective I hooked up another CM 7777 and it resulted again in no change .I strongly suspect I'm trying to lock in onto
multipath signals and maybe the preamp can't amplfy those signals.Can anyone
enlighten me on whats hapenning and what I can do about it?

Hi. I've been having no luck tuning in ABC, CBS or NBC since 5 PM Sunday.

I have the Fusion 3 Gold HDTV in my PC using the Silver Sensor as my antenna indoors.

I've been able to pull in all the digital channels (in Bushwick, Brooklyn 11237) since February 2005 just fine.

However, as stated above I can not get ABC, CBS, or NBC anymore.

Any ideas how I can go from getting the channels perfectly for nearly a year to now nothing?

I recently set up my HDTV with a CM 4228 on a 5ft mast on top of my roof and pointed it in the direction that a website had advised me to and did not receive any channels.I'm located in Forest Hills Queens in a 2 story house and surrounded by very tall buildings and felt that they were blocking the signal.So
I experimented a bit by turning the antenna until I received something.Lo and
behold it was pointed 180 degrees away from where it should be pointed at.
The signal was somewhat unstable and I could not get all of the locals I wanted
so I attached the CM 7777 preamp and was very suprised that it didn't change the signal strength whatsoever.Thinking that it was defective I hooked up another CM 7777 and it resulted again in no change .I strongly suspect I'm trying to lock in onto
multipath signals and maybe the preamp can't amplfy those signals.Can anyone
enlighten me on whats hapenning and what I can do about it?


Most signal indicators on most of our receivers would be better thought of as "Signal Quality" indicators and for the most part making a signal full of reflections (multipath) louder wont make the quality any better.

As I have said more times than I want to count; installing an antenna as directional as a 4228 without a rotor is a mistake. Most people do not have the ability to aim such a thing "by hand".

You might want to view an analog station from the same source and move the antenna around and look for ghost-free reception. Worry less about snow for the time being and do this without the preamps. Don't even think about using both preamps which wont work anyway because you wont be able to power the preamp closest to the antenna. If you get ghost free try it on the digitals next.

Hi. I've been having no luck tuning in ABC, CBS or NBC since 5 PM Sunday.

I have the Fusion 3 Gold HDTV in my PC using the Silver Sensor as my antenna indoors.

I've been able to pull in all the digital channels (in Bushwick, Brooklyn 11237) since February 2005 just fine.

However, as stated above I can not get ABC, CBS, or NBC anymore.

Any ideas how I can go from getting the channels perfectly for nearly a year to now nothing?

Sure; your neighbor moved their fridge. Get an outside antenna.

Most signal indicators on most of our receivers would be better thought of as "Signal Quality" indicators and for the most part making a signal full of reflections (multipath) louder wont make the quality any better.

As I have said more times than I want to count; installing an antenna as directional as a 4228 without a rotor is a mistake. Most people do not have the ability to aim such a thing "by hand".

You might want to view an analog station from the same source and move the antenna around and look for ghost-free reception. Worry less about snow for the time being and do this without the preamps. Don't even think about using both preamps which wont work anyway because you wont be able to power the preamp closest to the antenna. If you get ghost free try it on the digitals next.
Thank you very much for your input I appreciate it very much.My next move would be to purchase a rotor just as you suggested. Again thanks a lot!

tried out a Terk hdtva tonight,worthless piece of junk.

Anybody could a told you that. Terk products are the worst thing to come from Commack since Rosie O'donnell.

some forum members do report good results with the hdtva(none from the NY area,though.)I have no idea why,but where I'm at a simple cheap bowtie works much better than any amplified antenna I've tried.

for the past 2 days,after around 1 am,all local ota hd channels seem to be off air,except WNYE and NJN.Has anyone else experienced this?

I'd heard that NBC was going to be doing some maintenance around that time. They may have affected the other stations on the combiner. Fox has it's own antenna so they should not have been affected.

some forum members do report good results with the hdtva(none from the NY area,though.)I have no idea why,but where I'm at a simple cheap bowtie works much better than any amplified antenna I've tried.


If that's the antenna that looks like the Silver Sensor I tried it an NOTHING. So odd, since they both look about the same

In August I bought a 26" Insignia HDTV with an integrated ATSC tuner from Best Buy. I had it hooked up to an HD cable box from Time Warner Cable, so I never tested out its tuner capabilities. Anyway last night cable went down and my mother wanted to watch Grey's Anatomy, so my brother rigged up a very crude antenna consisting of rabbit ears hooked up to a piece of coaxial cable plugged directly into the tuner. He tuned to 7-1 and like magic the signal appeared with amazing picture quality (70% signal). This is in a basement with a metal roof, on the side of a hill, where plain old NTSC reception is impossible using rabbit ears. I'm impressed by how well I can recieve DTV.

Unfortunately I can't tune into 5-1 or 13-1 (the signal reads 20% for those channels), but I get most of the other channels with 70% signal. Also I noticed there is 4-4, does anyone know what this sub-channel is supposed to be? All I saw was random news bites. Also will the PQ get better if I can boost the signal strength to 85% or greater? Sorry if this has been answered before, but OTA reception is very new to me.

First, I'm amazed, and so should you be, that rabbit ears, a basement , a metal roof and a hill will get you much of anything. Be happy that mother's show was on a channel you could receive with the hookup!

WNET-DT is the lowest powered station in the metropolitan area - while WNYW-DT is the highest. Digital UHF reception is very problematic - it can drive you crazy.

4-4 is WNBC-DT's latest foray into multicasting. The station used the same old news programming in setting up 4-2 which is now Weather +. Who knows what they will eventually put on 4-4 - all I know it's robbing precious bandwidth from 4-1, the HD signal.

With digital - either you get it or you don't - it is called the "cliff effect." As long as your signal is not breaking up, the PQ will not get better with a stronger signal.

Get yourself a Silver Sensor or a Radio Shack antenna as a standby for the next time Time Warner dies on you.

Hope this helps.

Gary

Thanks for the advice. How much should a Silver Sensor cost? I saw one on ebay for about $30.

Go to solidsignal.com or ********************* for lower prices.

Gary

Thanks for the advice. How much should a Silver Sensor cost? I saw one on ebay for about $30.

I believe I saw them on Overstock.com a few days ago as well. You can always tool around for some coupons for Overstock as well.

4-4 is WNBC-DT's latest foray into multicasting. The station used the same old news programming in setting up 4-2 which is now Weather +. Who knows what they will eventually put on 4-4 - all I know it's robbing precious bandwidth from 4-1, the HD signal.

I was going to ask about that. I just got my OTA reception back, my Silver Sensor stopped working for me and I replaced it with the Radio Shack Indoor VHF/UHF/HDTV Antenna with RF Remote Control.
When I tuned WNBC-DT in I noticed the 4.4 added to sub channels list.
We can only hope the subs are tuned off for the Olympics.

I think WNBC-DT and WPIX-DT might be tied for the worst PQ on HD programming.
What does WPIX broadcast on it's sub? I notcied a 11-2 on the sub list.

11-2 is used for the Spanish language audio tracks - when available.

At least this serves a purpose to the community, unlike 4-4 and the unwatchable 4-2!

Gary

11-2 is used for the Spanish language audio tracks - when available.

At least this serves a purpose to the community, unlike 4-4 and the unwatchable 4-2!

Gary

And it does not take up extra bandwidth beyond the second audio track.

Anyone want to confirm this^? It will become important if 11 is the channel that stays in this market due to the UPN affiliate multicasting with FOX.

Anyone want to confirm this^? It will become important if 11 is the channel that stays in this market due to the UPN affiliate multicasting with FOX.

Huh?

Channel 11 isn't going anywhere!

The station's owner, the Tribune Company, has signed a long-term affilitation agreement with CW to be the new network's affiliate in New York.

Next, Channel 9 owned by Fox, as is Channel 5, will probably continue its idiotic digital cross-carriage - that is, 5.2 = 9, and 9.2 = 5. This has absolutely nothing to do with Channel 9 losing its UPN affiliation.

Gary

Hey, POWERFUL. Have you moved from Commack yet? If so, how is your reception now?

Thanks Gary, but I guess then ch 11 isn't multicasting after all, but couldn't someone just press the SAP button on their TV or STB for alt. audio? Joe, yeah I moved to Flushing and the reception is great with just the RS 15-1880 for all the locals except WNET which I can't get in digital but get pretty clear in analog, which is also good because that is who is broadcasting TV Guide Data for my HDDVR, and the data is only sent in the analog channel, at this time. I consider myself lucky to get what I get considering that I'm renting a room in a basement with my antenna pointed at the closest window I have towards the ESB. Furthermore the cable is flaky in my apartment and really hasn't worked since I moved in here although I've tried but it seems as if I talking to a brick wall with Time Warner Cable. I really just want to use the Cablecard feature that I have in my set, but that is a discussion for the TWC thread.

Is WNET broadcasting a signal I can get with the Dish 6000 reciever? I'm pointed line of sight at the ESB (11216)

It shows on the channel scan, but never locks in after that. (no pic, 0% signal)

Is getting consistent indoor reception in Manhattan completely impossible? I'm sure starting to think so. Because of TWC's asinine refusal to carrt WPIX and WWOR, I spent more than $500 building an HTPC for the express purpose timeshifting the HD broadcasts of GILMORE GIRLS, VERONICA MARS and SMALLVILLE. I live less than 30 blocks from the ESB, but can't get a decent signal on either station without at least 10 minutes of antenna-fiddling---and even when I lock it in, the signal will ususally have drifted away by the time I get home ten or twelve hours later--I only have a 50% success rate at recording my shows. I've tried both the Silver Sensor and the Radio SDhack 15-880 without success. It really frustrates me that people in Connecticut and New Jersey can tune these stations in without difficulty and yet the HD feeds of these networks can't be relied on in Manhattan, the freaking center of the media universe! If there's any place on the face of the freaking planet where I should be able to get the WB and UPN in high def, it's here. This is just absolutely insane.

andrew: it's multipath that's your problem... I'd think about getting a outdoor yagi or a 4 bowtie and aiming it at a building that has line of sight, (in your apt)

Is WNET broadcasting a signal I can get with the Dish 6000 reciever? I'm pointed line of sight at the ESB (11216)

It shows on the channel scan, but never locks in after that. (no pic, 0% signal)

<Snipped>
Digital UHF reception is very problematic - it can drive you crazy.
<Snipped>
Gary

If UHF is such a problem how is Qualcomm going to deliver DTV to cell phones which have very small antennas and move around or even could be in a vehicle? They are using former TV channel 55 and broadcasting DTV to cell phones. Same with Crown Castle, they are using spectrum in the 2.5 MHz area above UHF to broadcast mobile DTV to cell phones and other small devices.

It can't be UHF at fault.

Is getting consistent indoor reception in Manhattan completely impossible? I'm sure starting to think so. Because of TWC's asinine refusal to carrt WPIX and WWOR, I spent more than $500 building an HTPC for the express purpose timeshifting the HD broadcasts of GILMORE GIRLS, VERONICA MARS and SMALLVILLE. I live less than 30 blocks from the ESB, but can't get a decent signal on either station without at least 10 minutes of antenna-fiddling---and even when I lock it in, the signal will ususally have drifted away by the time I get home ten or twelve hours later--I only have a 50% success rate at recording my shows. I've tried both the Silver Sensor and the Radio SDhack 15-880 without success. It really frustrates me that people in Connecticut and New Jersey can tune these stations in without difficulty and yet the HD feeds of these networks can't be relied on in Manhattan, the freaking center of the media universe! If there's any place on the face of the freaking planet where I should be able to get the WB and UPN in high def, it's here. This is just absolutely insane.

It is insane. But you might try a BBTI PCI or USB OTA receiver or the same two from DVICO Fusion5gold plus. They are the best US receivers on the market and should do better than what you have in New York. Though neither of these "best" receivers would be tolerated in most third world countries.

But it is insane that you have this problem six years after we were promised that it would be fixed. Most other countries do not have a problem with mulitpath.

The problem has been totally solved many years ago. It is inexscusable that it still exist in the city of New York.

Is getting consistent indoor reception in Manhattan completely impossible? I'm sure starting to think so. Because of TWC's asinine refusal to carrt WPIX and WWOR, I spent more than $500 building an HTPC for the express purpose timeshifting the HD broadcasts of GILMORE GIRLS, VERONICA MARS and SMALLVILLE. I live less than 30 blocks from the ESB, but can't get a decent signal on either station without at least 10 minutes of antenna-fiddling---and even when I lock it in, the signal will ususally have drifted away by the time I get home ten or twelve hours later--I only have a 50% success rate at recording my shows. I've tried both the Silver Sensor and the Radio SDhack 15-880 without success. It really frustrates me that people in Connecticut and New Jersey can tune these stations in without difficulty and yet the HD feeds of these networks can't be relied on in Manhattan, the freaking center of the media universe! If there's any place on the face of the freaking planet where I should be able to get the WB and UPN in high def, it's here. This is just absolutely insane.

Our OTA system was certainly [and intentionally] never designed to easily accommodate the large city canyons, sorry you're having problems. The foreign system [COFDM] might handle your situation better, but it's proving to be worthless for long-distance true HDTV and they still have very serious interference issues.


You might try a Channel-Master 4221/3021 [~$22] in a window. I'd even try hanging it by its coax outside the building. Leave the wire-screen side toward the brick wall, obviously. :)

I am guessing it was done for the Superbowl but it's still the same now,
WABC-DT's sub is at 1.8 MBPS, it was at 3.2 MPBS.
The HD channel is 16.25 MPBS, it was 14.5 MPBS ,

Well it's over now, the sub is back to 3.2 MPBS.

I just noticed a new sub id on WNET. There is no new stream associated with it however. Something is probably in the works. The id's are: WNET-TV, WNET-SD, WNET-13 and WNET-HD

I am guessing it was done for the Superbowl but it's still the same now,
WABC-DT's sub is at 1.8 MBPS, it was at 3.2 MPBS.
The HD channel is 16.25 MPBS, it was 14.5 MPBS ,

Well it's over now, the sub is back to 3.2 MPBS.

Can we swap it back? :)

I just noticed a new sub id on WNET. There is no new stream associated with it however. Something is probably in the works. The id's are: WNET-TV, WNET-SD, WNET-13 and WNET-HD
Hmmm. I rescanned Ch. 13 (freq. 61) and still get just three. It sure would be convenient if WNET's HD broadcasts matched their newspaper- or program guide-printed schedule.

Dave Kristol

Before you two go off the deep end please remember this is the "Local HDTV Info and Reception New York, NY - OTA" thread. Why the US fell into one system or another is a question for historians; better pondered while watching beta-max tapes. TV reception in dense cities has always been problematic and now with digital even more so. In the past stations ran low power simulcasts (on UHF!) to help city dwellers get better reception (as well as other reasons). A higher location will, likely, help (freedom tower?!).

What is foreign about it? The US modulation is 8-VSB and that is foreign. Most of the IP royalties for 8-VSB go to South Korea. Most of the royalties for COFDM go to US entities. The basis for COFDM was invented at Bell Labs. 8-VSB is the foreign one.

Why was 8-VSB "[intentionally]" designed not to work in big city canyons? Was it also intentionally made to have problems around airports? Airports are everywhere.

And COFDM is being used in the US by XMRadio, Sirius, Qualcomm, Crown Castle and anyone using WiFi, WiMax and a lot of other stuff including HD Electronic News Gathering by Helicopter. It is used in wireless studio camera's for HD. Both Qualcomm and Crown Castle plan national rollouts of COFDM services this year in the US which involves great distances. They didn't even consider 8-VSB.

How is it "proving to be worthless for long-distance true HDTV"? Australia is using it for 'True HDTV" and they have long distances. Japan is using it for "real" HD. Also could you give an example of a "serious interference issues"? I know of none.

You might think about going back onto the alt.tv.tech.hdtv newsgroup and continue your pet anti-8VSB jihad there, Bob.

After all, It's been going so well for you there since you took a much-welcomed vacation from here five years ago. Am I wrong? :confused:

Before you two go off the deep end please remember this is the "Local HDTV Info and Reception New York, NY - OTA" thread. Why the US fell into one system or another is a question for historians; better pondered while watching beta-max tapes. TV reception in dense cities has always been problematic and now with digital even more so. In the past stations ran low power simulcasts (on UHF!) to help city dwellers get better reception (as well as other reasons). A higher location will, likely, help (freedom tower?!).

TV reception in dense cities was always problematic in analog. In digital it is no longer problematic at all. The issue is solved, it is past tense. A non issue.

Unless of course for some reason you don't want good reception in problematic environments.

XMRadio and Sirius specifically use COFDM in cities to augment their satellite coverage. They do so because COFDM has not only no problem in big cities it thrives in big cities. Here is what a 100 Watt transmitter can do in New York for instance.

www.viacel.com/bob.wmv

And this with simple 3 inch and 12v inch $2 omni antennas.

Digital has solved multipath both static and dynamic. One of the receivers in this video cost $65 4 years ago and can do HD just as easily.

Great demonstration! What does it prove?! We have the system we have. Sadly the entire broadcast industry and the FCC did not consult with you on this issue before selecting a broadcast system.

Great demonstration! What does it prove?! We have the system we have. Sadly the entire broadcast industry and the FCC did not consult with you on this issue before selecting a broadcast system.

Only that digital TV modulation does not inherently have a problem with multipath, one particular digital modulation has a problem and it happens to be the one used in the US.

It is the system we have but we also have MPEG2 compression and no other delivery system, cable satellite or the telco's FIOS are restricted as to modulation or codec used. They can change at will.

Over the air free broadcasting is the only TV delivery system hogtied with outdated technology. Seems like maybe these other delivery systems would like to see OTA restricted technically as much as possible or maybe see it just go away.

The reason why may be found in foreign OTA systems where veiwers are being offered free DTV that competes effectively with cable and satellite and is growing very fast.

Japan OTA free HDTV receivers sold in last 25 months, 8.7 million

France OTA free SD receivers sold in first 10 months, 1.73 million

UK OTA free SD receivers sold in first 3 years 10 million.

France will start HD OTA this year also.

Why am I only getting Mono sound from WNBC-DT. I am in brooklyn. I get other channels in either stereo or surround. But for NBC, i get Mono only, the picture is fine, still get olympics on HD. Side note: I have a pio 5060.

I've been receiving Ch. 13 (WNET-HD) OTA okay for awhile now, but I noticed it was dead last night and this morning. I know my antenna aiming is critical, but it's indoors in the east end of my NJ attic (and unaffected by the blizzard :-). Can someone confirm whether this is my problem or the station's? Thanks.

Dave Kristol

I just checked and it is coming in but breaking up a bit

No problems in Farmingdale, NY.

Is getting consistent indoor reception in Manhattan completely impossible? I'm sure starting to think so. Because of TWC's asinine refusal to carrt WPIX and WWOR, I spent more than $500 building an HTPC for the express purpose timeshifting the HD broadcasts of GILMORE GIRLS, VERONICA MARS and SMALLVILLE. I live less than 30 blocks from the ESB, but can't get a decent signal on either station without at least 10 minutes of antenna-fiddling---and even when I lock it in, the signal will ususally have drifted away by the time I get home ten or twelve hours later--I only have a 50% success rate at recording my shows. I've tried both the Silver Sensor and the Radio SDhack 15-880 without success. It really frustrates me that people in Connecticut and New Jersey can tune these stations in without difficulty and yet the HD feeds of these networks can't be relied on in Manhattan, the freaking center of the media universe! If there's any place on the face of the freaking planet where I should be able to get the WB and UPN in high def, it's here. This is just absolutely insane.

Andrew,
Have you tried one of the newer 5th generation STBs? Some guy named Mark Schubin was able to get fantastic reception in his uptown apartment.

This was posted August 1, 2004:

"Broadcast Television Finally Works Over The Air"


"With a simple loop antenna, with NO care in the positioning, we were able to pull in seven DTT stations reliably. When I say "reliably," I mean not only that the pictures and sound were okay but that people could move around the room and I could move the antenna around without causing any breakup.

It WAS possible for me to find an orientation where I could make it fail, but I really had to try, even on WNYW-DT, which could previously be received only with the antenna on the floor.

Congratulations to LG/Zenith! Let the transition move forward!

For the record, the channels I received were: WCBS-DT, WNBC-DT, WNYW-DT (which carries WWOR as a subchannel), WABC-DT, WPXN-DT, WNJN-DT, and WFME-DT.
TTFN, Mark"

Full article at:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?M5AC122AC

The US modulation is 8-VSB and that is foreign.This is incorrect.

8VSB was developed solely by Zenith Electronic Corporation, in Glenview, Illinois, prior to their acquisition by Korean electronics giant LG in 1995.


Also could you give an example of a "serious interference issues"? I know of none.Try researching COFDM digital TV reception in the countries you mention, you'll find reports of reception problems. No digital OTA system is perfect; they all have pros and cons. Anyone who tells you different has an ax to grind.

Hello -

Does anyone know the bitrates WNET is using for its 3 channels in NYC?

A recent broadcast of 'Nature' on Cuban wildlife on the "HD" channel was almost unwatchable due to the compression artifacts.

I haven't checked lately - I've been watching the Olympic artifacts this week....

Hi Jmee,

Welcome to the forum!
You seem to be pretty knowledgable about how this all works, too bad you haven't been here longer! :)

Can you tell us more about your set-up? :(

No digital OTA system is perfect; they all have pros and cons. Anyone who tells you different has an ax to grind.

That is so true. Anyone can browse these overseas sites and get a more balanced view of the worldwide situation.


Great Britain:

"Set-top box aerials suck":
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/settop.html

"generally, the more metal you have in the sky the better"
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/goodbadugly.html#roof

Digital Spy Forums
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=64


Australia:

Antennas:
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showforum=12

Transmission and reception:
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showforum=10

"HD Lite, enough is enough"
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=29827

German forums contain exactly the same comments and complaints as above, almost word-for-word.

I'd like to cross-post this over to HDTV Hardware, but I'll probably get yelled at. :D

tried out the Radio Shack 15-2186 tonight,it's a smallish panel type amplified antenna.A member in Chicago said it worked really well for him,he could receive stations 28 miles away.Didn't work at all for me,all I got was a pixelated still frame from WNBC.

WNBC is the weakest in this area (except WNET).

tried out the Radio Shack 15-2186 tonight,it's a smallish panel type amplified antenna.A member in Chicago said it worked really well for him,he could receive stations 28 miles away.Didn't work at all for me,all I got was a pixelated still frame from WNBC.

Try the RadioShack 15-892.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2131034&cp=&pg=4&y=6&s=D-StorePrice-RSK&x=19&kw=hdtv&parentPage=search

Works great for me. I'm able to pull in all the digital channels in NYC (BTW, I'm in Brooklyn,NY on the line between Bushwick, Bklyn and Ridgewood, Queens).

You can also look here:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/index.html

lol,well I did buy it,unfortunately it was DOA,and was missing the remote.A second one,from another store had a damaged,used looking box,so I said I didn't want it and walked out.It might work well because I believe it has a log periodic element inside,like the Silver Sensor.

tried out the Radio Shack 15-2186 tonight,it's a smallish panel type amplified antenna.A member in Chicago said it worked really well for him,he could receive stations 28 miles away.Didn't work at all for me,all I got was a pixelated still frame from WNBC.

Try a Channel Master CM4221A [3021], it's designed for rooftop use but with some creativity it can be used indoors.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANC3021

I've seen pricing down to ~$20 on other sites.

I'd like to try out that CM 3021,but the shipping's 17 bucks,ouch.it's too bad no brick and mortar retailers sell it in NYC(that I'm aware of).

You can pick up the CM4221A at LNL Distributing in Syosset, LI NY. It's not NYC but a short drive from Jamaica, Queens.

https://www.lnl.com/cgi-bin/tame.cgi/lnl/shop.tam

thanks for the info Mike,LI is still a bit out of the way for me,though.I exchanged the 2186 for the 1892,could only receive CBS,NBC,and ABC.I actually get much better reception with the 3.99 bowtie,I can only speculate that I'm in some unusual mutipath area,and the bowtie is picking up the reflected signals.

Since The Wtc No Longer Sends Nyc Signals I Am Curious Where The Local Channels Signals Orginate? I Am 55 Miles Northwest Of Nyc And Am Not Sure If I Can Receive Enough Ota Stations To Justify The Antenna Install? i am new to OTA HDTV signal reception but have had DSS for years. thanks

.

Since The Wtc No Longer Sends Nyc Signals I Am Curious Where The Local Channels Signals Orginate? I Am 55 Miles Northwest Of Nyc And Am Not Sure If I Can Receive Enough Ota Stations To Justify The Antenna Install? i am new to OTA HDTV signal reception but have had DSS for years. thanks

.
All the network stations have gone back to the Empire State Building. If you have
a clear shot in that direction, you should have no problem receiving OTA from
55 miles away with a good antenna and a preamp. I am 45 miles east of the ESB
and I receive all the network stations without problems, only WNET is not good
most of the time (low power transmitter).

wb

Since The Wtc No Longer Sends Nyc Signals I Am Curious Where The Local Channels Signals Orginate? I Am 55 Miles Northwest Of Nyc And Am Not Sure If I Can Receive Enough Ota Stations To Justify The Antenna Install? i am new to OTA HDTV signal reception but have had DSS for years. thanks.

I am also about 40 miles from the transmission site, and I can receive the major stations without a problem. In addition, if you view a lot of sports, the improvement in picture quality is well worth the effort.

All the network stations have gone back to the Empire State Building. If you have
a clear shot in that direction, you should have no problem receiving OTA from
55 miles away with a good antenna and a preamp. I am 45 miles east of the ESB
and I receive all the network stations without problems, only WNET is not good
most of the time (low power transmitter).

wbActually WABC-DT broadcasts from 4 Times Square. WABC-TV broadcasts from the ESB.

Actually WABC-DT broadcasts from 4 Times Square. WABC-TV broadcasts from the ESB.

ABC moved to the combiner a while back. The FCC site does not reflect that change though.

ABC moved to the combiner a while back. The FCC site does not reflect that change though.I don't think the engineers at WABC would intentionally give out false info.

I don't think the engineers at WABC would intentionally give out false info.

Very cryptic; what are you trying to say?

Very cryptic; what are you trying to say?That an engineer at WABC is my source. I was escorting a tour group through the station and someone asked an engineer where the DT transmitter was and the engineer responded that it was at 4 Times Square.

That an engineer at WABC is my source. I was escorting a tour group through the station and someone asked an engineer where the DT transmitter was and the engineer responded that it was at 4 Times Square.

It may not have been intentional on the engineer's part but it was incorrect. He is months out of step.

i understand the mileage of 55 from nyc is not crazy but i am also seperated by some medium sized mountains that lie between nyc and hudson valley

Anyone know what happened with WABC-DT's broadcast of Desperate Housewives tonight? It was supposed to be in HD, but it seems like they sent out the SD version. The show is kind of lame to begin with, but since it looks cool in HD, I keep watching it. Read some quick posts on an ABC fan website, and it seems people in other parts of the country (CA, TX were the two I read) definitely got the show in HD.

i understand the mileage of 55 from nyc is not crazy but i am also seperated by some medium sized mountains that lie between nyc and hudson valley

Those mountains would be a much bigger detriment to successful reception than
the distance. Keep looking around on this forum to see if anybody in your
general vicinity has successfully received OTA. Also , check
http://www.2150.com/ you may be able to receive stations from different
directions that are not obstructed by mountains.

wb

have a question for the OTA HDTV NY area.

I have a brother who lives on the 30th floor near 58th and 9th and points Southeast. On antennaweb it appears he's about 1.5 miles from the tower. Any chance a cheapie $3 Radio Shack UHF bowtie would work for him?

You never know until you try it!

Although Southeast is the correct direction for most of the stations, the Empire State Building, untless he has line-of-site to the tower, he will probably be dealing with multipath reception.

So, if a $3 "cheapie" isn't doing the job, by all means, have him try the Silver Sensor - it does very well for me in Manhattan - and it's highly dirctional which helps with multipath.

Gary

Where can you find a Silver Sensor in Manhattan?

Here it is

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?main_cat=03&CAT=&PROD=ZHDTV1


Thanks for the input Gary

Anyone else notice that they are receiving programming on 7-3? Almost looks like the NBC Weather subchannel on 4-2.

Also---does anyone else have an RCA DTC-210 D* unit? The last 2 weeks I've locked on THREE DIFFERENT TIMES when I (or the kids/wife) inadvertently entered in 5-2 (WOR-DT horrific subchannel). It's supremely tedious to reboot from this muck up.

Anyone else ? :confused:

Lastplace, that is not a local shop, I asked if there was a local shop or not. From the lack of info I'm guessing not. Anyone care to prove me wrong?

have a question for the OTA HDTV NY area.

I have a brother who lives on the 30th floor near 58th and 9th and points Southeast. On antennaweb it appears he's about 1.5 miles from the tower. Any chance a cheapie $3 Radio Shack UHF bowtie would work for him?


You might also want to get an attenuator to put in line if reception is not good at first (try 6DB or 10DB).

Anyone watching The Ghost Whisperer last night on 2-1? I TIVO'D it and had numerous glitches during my 1 hour recording.....at least 5 different spots where the replay skipped or jumped ahead for 2 minutes or so at a time. The glitch was preceded by pixelation and some visual noise then the video would just "jump" ahead for 2-3 minutes at a time. I also recorded 24 at the same time and had NO issues....so I don't *think* it was my OTA antenna setup....but I don't know if it could've been the wind last night.

Weirdest signal/video breakup I've yet to see on an OTA recording.

Anyone ?!??! :confused:

Anyone else notice that they are receiving programming on 7-3? Almost looks like the NBC Weather subchannel on 4-2.

Also---does anyone else have an RCA DTC-210 D* unit? The last 2 weeks I've locked on THREE DIFFERENT TIMES when I (or the kids/wife) inadvertently entered in 5-2 (WOR-DT horrific subchannel). It's supremely tedious to reboot from this muck up.

Anyone else ? :confused:
I'm having the same problem with channel 5-2 but I have a HUMAX HFA 100

You might also want to get an attenuator to put in line if reception is not good at first (try 6DB or 10DB).

What does an attenuator do?

Which one on these would work?

http://www.e-meca.com/rf-attenuator.htm

have a question for the OTA HDTV NY area.

I have a brother who lives on the 30th floor near 58th and 9th and points Southeast. On antennaweb it appears he's about 1.5 miles from the tower. Any chance a cheapie $3 Radio Shack UHF bowtie would work for him?
I'm about 10 miles away in Jamaica Queens,and the bowtie works great for me,although some stations require a bit of adjusting.

I'm having the same problem with channel 5-2 but I have a HUMAX HFA 100

Interesting. Thanks for the reply. I *tried* to go into my RCA's menu last night to "delete" the 5-2 subchannel....only (*$&(*&# problem is that when I "CHOOSE" the 5-2 channel to "delete" it, the damn thing attempts to TUNE it in....thereby leading to yet ANOTHER lock up!

So, either I'll have to remove the OTA coaxial from the back of the unit and DELETE 5-2, or maybe I'll try unplugging my pre-amp power supply and go about deleting the channel that way.

Either way, more irritation and aggravation that I'd like to do without :)

I haven't tried 5-2 on either of my HDTIVO's or my Hughes E86 receiver.

by all means avoid ch 5-2. my D* Sammy 160 also locked up when i tuned to this ch & i had to disconnect the antenna lead & reboot to get it to unlock(after 2 failed reboots). apparently if the box gets ANY sig. form 5-2 it freezes. thought it was a quirk of my Sammy but must be something weird with this sig.


jim

Anyone else notice that they are receiving programming on 7-3? Almost looks like the NBC Weather subchannel on 4-2.



Yeah, I noticed that I am now getting 7-2 and 7-3. I never remember getting 7-2 before either. Is this new? It seems to be offering children's programming, and 7-3 is weather. I hope this doesn't too severly decrease the picture quality of ABC HD.

i am looking for some input. I live in medford, which is about 60 miles out from nyc. I just installed a channel master 4248 yagi, that i got for free. I am also using a channel master spartan 3 3041 dsb preamp. my signals are as follows
cbs-99
nbc-65-70
fox-80
abc-88-90
upn-80-82
wb-65-70
wliw-90
wlny-92

i justwanted to ask a few questions. I have frequent dropouts on nbc. My signal will go from 65 to zero. Do you think a better preamp or antenna would help? Or is this caused by some sort of interference? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

What does an attenuator do?

Which one on these would work?

http://www.e-meca.com/rf-attenuator.htm


The OP is very close to a strong transmitter. The attenuator will lower all signals (direct and indirect) and may help fight multipath in that very strong signal environment.

these are more like it, though:

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&SO=2&&DID=7&CATID=55&ObjectGroup_ID=533

Hi, can anyone recommend a good antenna installer for the Jersey City, NJ area? I already have an antenna on my roof but it hasn't worked since the transmitting tower at the World Trade Center was destroyed on Sep. 11. I'm about 6 miles out from midtown Manhattan but can't get a signal with a POS indoor Terk silver sensor. Although I am pretty close to the towers, there are large church steeples and apartment buildings around causing signal problems. Want to correct this with a rooftop antenna. I live in the 2nd floor of a house in the 07305 area code. Would appreciate any advice, and please PM me with any recommendations. Thanks.

by all means avoid ch 5-2. my D* Sammy 160 also locked up when i tuned to this ch & i had to disconnect the antenna lead & reboot to get it to unlock(after 2 failed reboots). apparently if the box gets ANY sig. form 5-2 it freezes. thought it was a quirk of my Sammy but must be something weird with this sig.


jim
Same here, Fox sub channel 5-2 froze my SIR-TS360 and the reset button had no effect, as u indicated the only way was to disconnect the ota antenna from it; BTW WTF are they sending on 5-2 for it to paralyze our boxes . :confused:

5-1 froze and completely dropped out tonight between 9:08-9:12 on my LST-3410A right in the middle of 24, nice work WNYW.

Hi, can anyone recommend a good antenna installer for the Jersey City, NJ area? I already have an antenna on my roof but it hasn't worked since the transmitting tower at the World Trade Center was destroyed on Sep. 11. I'm about 6 miles out from midtown Manhattan but can't get a signal with a POS indoor Terk silver sensor. Although I am pretty close to the towers, there are large church steeples and apartment buildings around causing signal problems. Want to correct this with a rooftop antenna. I live in the 2nd floor of a house in the 07305 area code. Would appreciate any advice, and please PM me with any recommendations. Thanks.

Looks like you may need a rotating antenna

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* red - uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 UPN SECAUCUS NJ 71° 6.3 38
* red - uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 i NEW YORK NY 91° 4.0 30
* red - uhf WNYE-DT 25.1 IND NEW YORK NY 110° 5.9 24
* red - uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK NY 71° 6.3 44
* red - uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON NJ 71° 6.3 40
* red - uhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK NJ 71° 6.3 61
* red - vhf WNJB-DT 8.1 PBS NEW BRUNSWICK NJ 269° 22.4 8
* red - uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR NJ 346° 12.8 51
* red - uhf WPIX-DT 11.1 WB NEW YORK NY 71° 6.3 33
* red - uhf WNJU-DT 36 TEL LINDEN NJ 91° 4.0 36
* red - uhf WFME-DT 66.1 REL WEST MILFORD NJ 318° 10.6 29
* red - uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK NY 71° 6.3 56
* red - uhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK NY 67° 6.6 45
* blue - uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK NY 67° 7.0 28
* violet - uhf WFUT-DT 68.1 TFA NEWARK NJ 67° 6.6 53
Note:

Maybe not, most network stations are 67 deg to 71 deg

Yeah, I noticed that I am now getting 7-2 and 7-3. I never remember getting 7-2 before either. Is this new? It seems to be offering children's programming, and 7-3 is weather. I hope this doesn't too severly decrease the picture quality of ABC HD.

I did a ten second recording of each of the WABC-DT channels,
7-1 WABC-HD had a average of 13 MB's during lost in HD:(
Even worse the the up convert for non HD programming is 11 MB's.
7-2 WABC+ had a average of 2.88 MB's
7-3 WABCnow had a average of 1.58 MB's

I hope the are not taking bandwith away from 7-1 to run 7-3.
If anything they should cut 7-2 to 2 or 2.5 and give that bandwith back to the HD feed.

Arghh.... WNET-DT is off the air? I get it from Empire State Building without any problem usually, but it seems gone now. Anyone else seeing this? (or better: not seeing it :)

-Geert

I hope the are not taking bandwith away from 7-1 to run 7-3.

of course they are

13-1, 13-2, 13-3 all on the air here in Manhattan.

of course they are

Well I just checked again and I am still getting 13 MB's on WABC-HD.

I was getting around 16 MB's in January. Where did the other 3 MB go if it's not being used by the other sub channels?

Why would the bit rate be reduced to 13 MB?

On further review I guess I should not complain.
I just did a recording of WNYW-DT and the average was 11 MB's.

13-1, 13-2, 13-3 all on the air here in Manhattan.

WNET-DT is also still on the air via Cablevison.

13-1, 13-2, 13-3 all on the air here in Manhattan.

Thanks for the confirmation. They're back now for me too. In the meantime I got my Sony DHG-250HDD to lock on for just a moment or two during the outage, and the S/N ratio was only 14 dB instead of the usual 25-28 or so. Either they reduced their( already low) power during that timeframe, or there was some unrelated issue. Anyway, everything is back to normal now.

Today a neighbor had Time Warner visit for the third time to get her cable service restored, and at every visit they manage to remove my coax from the roof antenna into my home. Their incompetence was the reason to move to OTA in the first place, and I can't believe they keep messing up my reception! :eek: Last time when they tried to reconnect they gave me a crappy basic cable signal instead. Now I'm labeling my coax with "DON'T TOUCH OR ELSE!" labels :p

BTW, since going from analog basic cable to digital OTA I'm really surprised how much better my standard 27" CRT TV looks. Especially colors are better and more saturated, and solid color is really solid without a hint of snow or ghosting. Eventually down and get a good LCD screen, of course.

Go to butterfly photo they have the westinghouse 19" LCD for under 400, and its widescreen.

PAX-TV or the "I" Channel is multicasting 4 ways on channel 30

31-1 PAX
31-2 Faith Channel
31-3 Worship Channel
31-4 ??

PAX-TV or the "I" Channel is multicasting 4 ways on channel 30

31-1 PAX
31-2 Faith Channel
31-3 Worship Channel
31-4 ??

My TV shows all four in its EPG, but I've only seen programming on 31-1.

Dave Kristol

My TV shows all four in its EPG, but I've only seen programming on 31-1.

Dave KristolI was flipping through the channels and I got programming on all 4.

I noticed WNBC 4.4 is now broadcasting.

I noticed WNBC 4.4 is now broadcasting.

Great :(

Everyone complains about DBS watering down HD but OTA is really killing HD!

Great :(

Everyone complains about DBS watering down HD but OTA is really killing HD!

That hasn't been my experience.

I don't have cable nor satellite, but, aside fronm ocasional momentary dropouts, my
reception is OK.

That hasn't been my experience.

I don't have cable nor satellite, but, aside fronm ocasional momentary dropouts, my
reception is OK.

It's not a reception issue (per se), it's more a QUALITY of image/picture issue.... especially with larger displays. 13-1 ALWAYS looked great on my 26" HD LCD TV in the kitchen. When I recently upgraded to a 50" plasma that I also have hooked up to my OTA antenna that receives 13-1, I started noticing that PBS-HD showed noticeable picture quality issues that are NOT noticeable on the 26" when running the same program at the same time (macroblocking in particular) on fast motion scenes. Of course, 13 runs 3 subchannels at the same time....so it's not surprising that there would be picture quality issues in that regard.

It's not a reception issue (per se), it's more a QUALITY of image/picture issue.... especially with larger displays. 13-1 ALWAYS looked great on my 26" HD LCD TV in the kitchen. When I recently upgraded to a 50" plasma that I also have hooked up to my OTA antenna that receives 13-1, I started noticing that PBS-HD showed noticeable picture quality issues that are NOT noticeable on the 26" when running the same program at the same time (macroblocking in particular) on fast motion scenes. Of course, 13 runs 3 subchannels at the same time....so it's not surprising that there would be picture quality issues in that regard.

I get the logic of your gripe that crowding all those subchannels into their frequency allocation must result in the degradation of their picture, but to my untrained eyes I
haven't yet been bothered by it.

I view HD on a direct view 26" set and a 50" plasma and haven't noticed any macroblocking so far. Maybe I haven't noticed it because I don't know what it is.
What is it?

I get the logic of your gripe that crowding all those subchannels into their frequency allocation must result in the degradation of their picture, but to my untrained eyes I
haven't yet been bothered by it.

I view HD on a direct view 26" set and a 50" plasma and haven't noticed any macroblocking so far. Maybe I haven't noticed it because I don't know what it is.
What is it?

In a nutshell, if there's quick action on the screen or fast moving images you'll see "noise" or some digital PQ degradation:

http://hometheaterfocus.com/blog/archive/2005/05/29/207.aspx

I've noticed it on some OTA stations (most notably NJN-HD as well as the national PBS-HD feed picked up on 13-1) and not JUST on DirecTV broadcasts (i.e compression issues).

Yes WNET PQ of PBS-HD is bad. Moderate to fast movement of the camera or objects results in macroblocking.

WCBS-DT still has no sub channel yet.

WCBS-DT in the past, during the presidential political conventions, had channel 2.2 providing wall-to-wall coverage and other features from the conventions' sites.

If stations can find a financial model to make more money, just wait to see how long it will be before WCBS and other stations max-out the use of multicasting.

Then, we'll have to say goodbye to true high definition!

Gary

I have less of an issue with WNET simulcasting as compared to.... hmmm, let's see..... WNBC for example. At least WNET is offering children's programming on one of its multicasts, which is of some value to me having a young child. Furthmore, WNET is publically funded.

WNBC, on the other hand, is offering that useless weather channel on its substation. Blech!

I have less of an issue with WNET simulcasting as compared to.... hmmm, let's see..... WNBC for example. At least WNET is offering children's programming on one of its multicasts, which is of some value to me having a young child. Furthmore, WNET is publically funded.

WNBC, on the other hand, is offering that useless weather channel on its substation. Blech!

I just realize that WNBC is pretty much the ONE network that I watch absotively NO prime-time programming from. NONE!

I'll Tivo the occassional Leno episode here and there, but I honestly don't watch ONE show from the peacock. :eek:

Now the wife on the other hand is a huge L&O fan, Vegas etc... But oddly enough, I haven't "gone there" yet :o