I'm also in Queens,never was able to get 13 because it broadcasts with weak power,many people can't receive it.

I'm out in Nassau and get 13 pretty reliably. Others in Suffolk have also reported sucess. if you're having problems in Queens it's not so much the weak power that 13 transmits on, but multipath issues. Have you tried a rotor?

I disagree.

When you have 13 using the lowest power of any NYC station on the Empire State Building, 12.4kW -and add into the mix that WNET-DT transmits on the highest frequency - Channel 61. Put those two elements together and it's disaster. It gives you the most difficult station to receive.

Yes, and multipath makes the above problems even worse.

To put things in perspective, many have complained that WNBC-DT gives them reception problems. This station (4) has the lowest frequency allocation from the ESB - Channel 28 and transmits with 200.2kW.

I'm amazed that more people don't have problems with 13. Consider yourself very, very
fortunate!

I have zero signal on WNET-DT (either on 61 or 13.) None. My TV doesn't even register it as an active channel. And I'm 10 miles away.

And would you look at that, Guide Data is back on WNBC-DT. :)

I have zero signal on WNET-DT (either on 61 or 13.) None. My TV doesn't even register it as an active channel. And I'm 10 miles away.


My location is in Seaford, NY not to far from Levitown (near Hemstead Tpke). I am
using a CM 3016 combo Vhf/Uhf going thru a ASKA 25db amplifier with a variable
attenuator. Using dish network vip 622 hd receiver. I get a ss of 91 for Wnet (61)
with no drop outs at all for almost 1 year!

My suggestion is inquire using an amplifier (got the aska from Stark Electronics. )The amp must be connected to a outlet, and it can be adjusted via the adjustable
pot from 0 to +25 db, when adjusting the pot ck the ss from any channel and make sure that the ss is fairly eq'd and not over driven. I'm even using a radio
shack gold plated 2 way splitter, each with a -3.5 db loss...splitting between 2 tv's. Fot the record WNET is on 61 until 2009 when WNET goes back to Vhf 13.

Hope this helps.......rolou21.

I live in Brooklyn and have the same problem. I have a rooftop antenna, and I pick up with the Samsung DTB - H260F all the broadcasts with the exception of Channel 13. I receive 2,4,5,7,9,11 and even 51 (PBS in NJ although weakly).

If anyone has any idea of how to pick up PBS 13 I would greatly appreciate hearing about it.


Update: Today, I purchased at Home Depot the cheapest HDTV antenna, cost $15.

I came home with the idea that I was just going to return it and I can't believe it.

It picked up all 3 HDTV PBS channels. The signal was low, but it was there and of course the picture was perfect. Gotta love HDTV.

So with that I had the other antenna do a research and it just could not pick up those channels. That HDTV antenna also gotten at Home Depot was $40 bucks.

Just don't get it, the cheap stuff really does work at times much better.

Wow! That's all!


Rob

I'm out in Nassau and get 13 pretty reliably. Others in Suffolk have also reported sucess. if you're having problems in Queens it's not so much the weak power that 13 transmits on, but multipath issues. Have you tried a rotor?
I'm in an apartment building,no access to the roof,actually I think my pretty good reception in general is due to multipath reflections.

I believe you are talking about when in underscan, seeing the full video frame, the first few lines of video on FOX 4:3 programs look like they are stretched to 16:9. Yes I see that on WNYW-DT (FOX) also during 4:3 network shows.

So, is this a corruption introduced by the broadcaster?
It just seems odd to me that they haven't taken care of that by now.

Has anyone noticed an audio problem on WNYW-DT 5.2? It's just the WWOR simulcast, but it has this constant clicking and distortion on it which makes it almost unwatchable as a substitute for when I can't get WWOR-DT.

What's the latest word on the problems with the guide information for WPIX-DT (The CW 11) and the HR10-250 Tivo? I'm still not seeing any guide information for the ones where the signal comes through and getting duplicates in my channel listings.

Has anyone noticed an audio problem on WNYW-DT 5.2? It's just the WWOR simulcast, but it has this constant clicking and distortion on it which makes it almost unwatchable as a substitute for when I can't get WWOR-DT.

I recorded about an hour worth of paid advertisments yesterday, skimmed through it, and didn't notice any issues with the sound.

On the other hand, I did notice the same corruption at the top of the image, just like I described about FOX and ABC. Honestly, I don't know what's the problem anymore -- is it the players I'm using, or are these network incapable of putting a 4:3 show in a larger canvas without corrupting the first few lines?

WPIX vs CW11
I am still exhibiting the dual 11-1 and 11-2 problems with WPIX. The direct HR20 does not pick up the dual channels, only the one with no image or audio. The H20 picks up the duplicate 11-1 and 11-2. Image and auddio are visible on 11-1 "CW11" and 11-2 "the tube" . Haven't tried the tuner on the Samsung plasma yet.

I moved my antenna to the top of a high book shelf and now I can get a good signal on every NYC area channel except for WNET-DT 61, WPXN-DT 30 and WNYE-DT 24.

Anyone else in the Northern NJ area having reception problems?

For the last two days I get little or no signal power from just about all ESB stations but Tuesday reception was fine.
The only stations I can tune in with video and audio are WCBS-DT, WABC-DT and WNJU-DT.

Actually you are not supposed to see the very ends of the image. That's why TVs have a bit of overscan on them. The problem is if you are watching with a TV tuner or TV that lets you view the full screen (underscan) you will sometimes get stuff at the top and bottom of the screen. I don't think the issue with FOX is an issue on our end. It's an issue with the way FOX is upconverting their non HD programming. It seems like the first few lines of video are being stretched to fill the 16:9 frame. My only suggestion would be to post a still frame in the HDTV Progamming section of the forum and see if anyone from FOX can provide an answer.

I recorded about an hour worth of paid advertisments yesterday, skimmed through it, and didn't notice any issues with the sound.

On the other hand, I did notice the same corruption at the top of the image, just like I described about FOX and ABC. Honestly, I don't know what's the problem anymore -- is it the players I'm using, or are these network incapable of putting a 4:3 show in a larger canvas without corrupting the first few lines?

I'm trying to pick up CBS on 56 with my Hipix. I've watched CBS lots of times before. I get no signal. Yet I'm getting ABC, FOX, NBC, etc. I've futzed with the antenna, but nothing.

I haven't tried to pick up CBS in awhile... Could this be some kind of software problem with the Hipix? Or is there something wrong with CBS now? Or is it transmitting from somewhere else?

Oh well, I guess I'll watch the Jets in SD... :(

Mike

I'm in Northern, NJ and getting a good signal from WCBS-DT.

I don't really understand the technical details of the HD stations, but I suspect my Hipix might be confused about some of the parameters of CBS. It shows "56" and then 0x11 / 0x14.

CBS is still 56, right?

Does anyone know if 0x11 and 0x14 is correct for NY, or what they mean? :)

I don't really understand the technical details of the HD stations, but I suspect my Hipix might be confused about some of the parameters of CBS. It shows "56" and then 0x11 / 0x14.

CBS is still 56, right?

Does anyone know if 0x11 and 0x14 is correct for NY, or what they mean? :)


Yeah, CBS is 56.

The 0x11 & 0x14 are PIDs (Program IDs) in the MPEG Transport Stream, one for the video and one for the audio. However, the numbers I see in the stream are different: 0x31 and 0x34.

Yeah, CBS is 56.

The 0x11 & 0x14 are PIDs (Program IDs) in the MPEG Transport Stream, one for the video and one for the audio. However, the numbers I see in the stream are different: 0x31 and 0x34.
Thanks for the info.

Where is CBS transmitting from? The same place as NBC or FOX or something else?

The obvious problem would be that my antenna isn't picking up the signal properly. With no signal, I imagine it wouldn't be able to determing the PIDs... But if I'm getting <network transmitting from same place>, then I'd think it'd have to be a software problem...

And even if the hipix had the wrong PIDs, I imagine it would still show some signal strength - it just might not display any picture...

My only suggestion would be to post a still frame in the HDTV Progamming section of the forum and see if anyone from FOX can provide an answer.

Thanks; I'll take the issue there.

Thanks for the info.

Where is CBS transmitting from? The same place as NBC or FOX or something else?

The obvious problem would be that my antenna isn't picking up the signal properly. With no signal, I imagine it wouldn't be able to determing the PIDs... But if I'm getting <network transmitting from same place>, then I'd think it'd have to be a software problem...

And even if the hipix had the wrong PIDs, I imagine it would still show some signal strength - it just might not display any picture...

Check http://www.antennaweb.org/ for direction of the antenna relative to where you live.

I'd say you're right: first get a sufficiently strong signal, and then worry about the PIDs.

antennaweb continues to show incorrect information.

WABC-DT as the other stations that were mentioned, CBS, NBC and Fox, all emanate from the Empire State Building.

The Web site, beside being out of date with much information, is also incredibly conservative.
Their words, not mine, when I complained that according to the site I should not be able to receive any digital stations. When in fact, I receive, depending on the day, about 15 digital stations - not including sub-channels. So take the Web site with a big grain of salt.

reception is completely f'ed up today,no signal on ABC-DT,other stations seem very poor as well.

And would you look at that, Guide Data is back on WNBC-DT. :)


I'm not getting any Guide Data on WNBC-DT for the last few days. Can anyone please verify this?

Spoke with Directv tech today about the continuing wpix, 11-1 and 11'2 problem. Received the usual inane questions, in the antenna connected, have you rebooted, etc. Finally asked for a supervisor and explained the problem. He finally admitted that there is a either a problem with the data base, but he doesn't see a solution in the near future. He basically said I we just have to live with it. Asked about whether they the tuners are capable of scanning, He had no idea!

I'm not getting any Guide Data on WNBC-DT for the last few days. Can anyone please verify this?
It was off for a couple of days after I posted that, but it's back today.

Spoke with Directv tech today about the continuing wpix, 11-1 and 11'2 problem. Received the usual inane questions, in the antenna connected, have you rebooted, etc. Finally asked for a supervisor and explained the problem. He finally admitted that there is a either a problem with the data base, but he doesn't see a solution in the near future. He basically said I we just have to live with it. Asked about whether they the tuners are capable of scanning, He had no idea!

this should be working now.... it is on both my HR20 and HR10.

Has anyone noticed an audio problem on WNYW-DT 5.2? It's just the WWOR simulcast, but it has this constant clicking and distortion on it which makes it almost unwatchable as a substitute for when I can't get WWOR-DT.

Yes, I have noticed this too. EVERY TIME I ever tuned into 5.2 it always had terrible audio and was never watchable. The quality improves slightly if I play the audio through the HDTV speakers instead of the A/V receiver, but it is still unusable.

That channel is just a stretched out SD version of 9.1, but it would be nice to have it available as a backup. Too bad.

I have no signal from WNET in the last two days. Is the transmitter down?

All of the other ESB stations are steady and strong. I am about 6mi from the ESB with line of sight access using a roof mounted antenna.

Michael

WPIX Viewers,

With the help of a number of different folks at Tribune Media Services and DirecTV we finally got to the bottom of the mapping problem and the errant entry in DirecTV's database was corrected earlier today. I verified that this is the case on my own HR10-250 receiver late this afternoon.

A total rescan removes the duplicate entries leaving the two correct WPIX-DT main and Tube channel entries. (Actually after the new guide download and before the rescan the dupes had video and audio too.)

I do note that I had to reboot my receiver later this evening as it was confused and wouldn't tune to some other satellite channels. Apparently receiving a new guide download taxes it a little more than I would have imagined.

Andy
WPIX-Tribune

Santa brought this HD newb a Samsung DTB-H260F this year. I have it connected via component cables to a Syntax Olevia LT26HVX.

I am using a Phillips PHDTV1 Silver Sensor indoor antenna. After a couple of channel scans, I pulled in 22 channels and was blown away with the picture quality. And this is only at about 50% signal strength!! I was able to pull in all the major networks except for NBC.

These are my stats according to antennaweb.org,

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* yellow - uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 MNT SECAUCUS NJ 324° 16.2 38
* yellow - uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK NY 324° 16.2 56
* yellow - uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK NY 324° 16.2 44
* yellow - uhf WPIX-DT 11.1 CW NEW YORK NY 324° 16.2 33
* yellow - uhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK NY 325° 16.6 45
* green - uhf WNJU-DT 36 TEL LINDEN NJ 313° 16.0 36
* green - uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 i NEW YORK NY 313° 16.0 30
* red - uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR NJ 321° 30.0 51
* red - uhf WNYE-DT 25.1 IND NEW YORK NY 312° 13.5 24
* red - uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON NJ 324° 16.2 40
* red - uhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK NJ 324° 16.2 61
* red - uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK NY 326° 16.5 28
* red - uhf WLIW-DT 21.2 PBS GARDEN CITY NY 62° 20.6 22
* blue - uhf WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON NJ 316° 52.6 18
* blue - uhf WFUT-DT 68.1 TFA NEWARK NJ 325° 16.6 53

Can someone interpret these figures for me as to why I'm not picking up the NBC broadcast? Will another type of indoor antenna (maybe powered) help me achieve this?

My setup is in the second floor of a two-story private home in the 11691 zip code with nary a tall building in the area.


Spanky sorry for the delayed resposne. I'm in Long Valley and can not get WNBC. I basically get everything else strong except NBC and WPIX. It appears anyone in a WSW line of sight of the ESB seems to have recpetion problems with NBC. I know of posts in the past that complained about no recpetion in Flanders, Sucassana, Dove, Whippany etc. Look at the tramnsmission pattern and I believe their signal is weakest in our direction.

Spanky sorry for the delayed resposne. I'm in Long Valley and can not get WNBC. I basically get everything else strong except NBC and WPIX. It appears anyone in a WSW line of sight of the ESB seems to have recpetion problems with NBC. I know of posts in the past that complained about no recpetion in Flanders, Sucassana, Dove, Whippany etc. Look at the tramnsmission pattern and I believe their signal is weakest in our direction.

"Transmission pattern" should not be the problem.

Both WNBC-DT and WPIX-DT use Channel 2's (WCBS-DT) omni-directional antenna - the Combiner Project atop the ESB. With an omni-directional signal there should not be any specific area being served with a weaker signal.

I'm stumped - line-of-sight and no tall buildings!

WPIX Viewers,

With the help of a number of different folks at Tribune Media Services and DirecTV we finally got to the bottom of the mapping problem and the errant entry in DirecTV's database was corrected earlier today. I verified that this is the case on my own HR10-250 receiver late this afternoon.

A total rescan removes the duplicate entries leaving the two correct WPIX-DT main and Tube channel entries. (Actually after the new guide download and before the rescan the dupes had video and audio too.)

I do note that I had to reboot my receiver later this evening as it was confused and wouldn't tune to some other satellite channels. Apparently receiving a new guide download taxes it a little more than I would have imagined.

Andy
WPIX-Tribune


Yup. mine started working a couple days ago.... A BIG thank you to all that were involved resolving the issue!~

I live in Westfield about 30 miles from the Empire State Building. My OTA signal strength is 100% on both CBS and ABC and it doesn't jump around at all on those two stations. On both Fox and NBC, my signal strength ranges from a high of 100% to a low of about 86. I know that an 86 is still a good signal, but I was wondering whether this "signal jumping" is normal, particularly since it only happens on two stations. Is there anything that can be done about it? BTW - I'm watching OTA through a DTV HR20 HD DVR.

The differences in signal strength for different stations at different times can be due to:

Channel Frequency
Power
Temperature
Humidity
Rain, Snow or Clear Weather
Leaves on Trees
Objects in the way of line-of-sight - Buildings, Trees, Hills, Mountains, etc.

You name it and digital UHF reception can and will be affected.

Yes, I have noticed this too. EVERY TIME I ever tuned into 5.2 it always had terrible audio and was never watchable. The quality improves slightly if I play the audio through the HDTV speakers instead of the A/V receiver, but it is still unusable.

That channel is just a stretched out SD version of 9.1, but it would be nice to have it available as a backup. Too bad.

I think you guys are having some equipment issues, since I see no problems: I just recorded 10 minutes, and played it via the VLC player on my computer.

Also, I think that your TV is the one doing the stretching, since the channel itself has a 4:3 format @ 640x480 resolution.

Hi everyone,

I'm in northwestern Queens, and have been getting great HDTV OTA reception since we got our HDTV over a year ago.

However, for the past 5-6 days we've totally lost all HDTV/DTV channels, the TV is showing strong reception in the little bar that shows signal strength, but the TV will display "no signal" in the frame. The UHF/VHF (not sure about this terminology, but older stations) are still working like they used to.

I tried to make sure no weird setting was touched, and couldnt find anything.

i tried both manually and auto scanning the channels all over again with no luck

TV Guide still seems to be updating.

any ideas? is OTA DTV down in NYC?

any help is much appreciated

I think you guys are having some equipment issues, since I see no problems: I just recorded 10 minutes, and played it via the VLC player on my computer.

Also, I think that your TV is the one doing the stretching, since the channel itself has a 4:3 format @ 640x480 resolution.

I think you're right about the stretching. My TV must be set to stretch 4:3 SD broadcasts (but not 4:3 HD broadcasts).

However, since 5.2 is the only channel with the audio problem, I'm not sure that equipment is to blame. If you receive the channel fine, then perhaps it's my reception or even some kind of interference (is that possible w/a DTV signal?).

Hi everyone,

I'm in northwestern Queens, and have been getting great HDTV OTA reception since we got our HDTV over a year ago.

However, for the past 5-6 days we've totally lost all HDTV/DTV channels, the TV is showing strong reception in the little bar that shows signal strength, but the TV will display "no signal" in the frame. The UHF/VHF (not sure about this terminology, but older stations) are still working like they used to.

I tried to make sure no weird setting was touched, and couldnt find anything.

i tried both manually and auto scanning the channels all over again with no luck

TV Guide still seems to be updating.

any ideas? is OTA DTV down in NYC?

any help is much appreciated

I'm in southeastern Queens and my OTA reception has been fine.

This is a bit off-topic, but where can I find RG6 twist on f-connectors and couplers cheap locally? I have a roof mounted antenna from the 70's, but the coax line running from it into my room has been clipped to a 4" nub.

I want to connect my Samsung DTB-H260F tuner to it. Right now, I'm using an indoor Silver Sensor with it and I'm not receiving NBC. I want to see if there's any gain with the outdoor antenna.

I'm in southeastern Queens and my OTA reception has been fine.

This is a bit off-topic, but where can I find RG6 twist on f-connectors and couplers cheap locally? I have a roof mounted antenna from the 70's, but the coax line running from it into my room has been clipped to a 4" nub.

I want to connect my Samsung DTB-H260F tuner to it. Right now, I'm using an indoor Silver Sensor with it and I'm not receiving NBC. I want to see if there's any gain with the outdoor antenna.


Home Depot ;)

I'm surprised you haven't check out Radio Shack. I would imagine there is one near you.

Catalog #278-228.

$1.99

I would imagine that the outdoor antenna, if not totally corroded, will give you stronger signals.

"Transmission pattern" should not be the problem.

Both WNBC-DT and WPIX-DT use Channel 2's (WCBS-DT) omni-directional antenna - the Combiner Project atop the ESB. With an omni-directional signal there should not be any specific area being served with a weaker signal.

I'm stumped - line-of-sight and no tall buildings!


Yeah I initially thought tall building as well but if that were the case I doubt I would get CBS @ >80% signal?? My home is @ 1,060' elevation I doubt buildings are the issue. Perhaps multipath interference but then from where? I reread Spanky's post he is not in line with th problem areas I saw Rockaway in his info and obviously missed it was Rockaway, NY. Thank you.

I think you're right about the stretching. My TV must be set to stretch 4:3 SD broadcasts (but not 4:3 HD broadcasts).

However, since 5.2 is the only channel with the audio problem, I'm not sure that equipment is to blame. If you receive the channel fine, then perhaps it's my reception or even some kind of interference (is that possible w/a DTV signal?).

What you refer to 4:3 HD is basically 16:9 HD with the SD picture put in the middle, so tecnically there is no need for stretching.

I think that bad reception would affect the picture even more than the sound; after all, a lot more bits are used for the video stream in comparison to the audio stream.

Hi everyone,

I'm in northwestern Queens, and have been getting great HDTV OTA reception since we got our HDTV over a year ago.

However, for the past 5-6 days we've totally lost all HDTV/DTV channels, the TV is showing strong reception in the little bar that shows signal strength, but the TV will display "no signal" in the frame. The UHF/VHF (not sure about this terminology, but older stations) are still working like they used to.

I tried to make sure no weird setting was touched, and couldnt find anything.

i tried both manually and auto scanning the channels all over again with no luck

TV Guide still seems to be updating.

any ideas? is OTA DTV down in NYC?

any help is much appreciated
I've been having weird reception problems(on stations with normally strong,steady reception) for the last few weeks,perhaps it's weather related or transmitter work,who knows.

Can someone help me out....I live in Brooklyn (11239), Starrett City to be exact. I am in a apartment building which is surrounded by other buildings and trees with no line of sight to the ESB. The only HD channels I can pick up are WWOR (9.1) & WNYW (5.1) with a signal strength of about 85%-95% (at night). I have read so many posts of people in Long Island who can recieve most of the HD channels in NY, but how come I can only recieve two? I am only 8 - 10 miles away from the ESB. I am currently using a Zenith Indoor Antenna and I have no access to the roof in my building. I have tried many amplified antennas and was able to pick up WNJN-DT (51.1), WXTV-DT (41.1), and WLIW-DT (21.2) but not CBS, NBC, ABC, or CW11. How was I able to pick channels on Long Island and New Jersey but not in Manhattan? Why is the signal strength for FOX and My9 so high for me but for the other channels (which also broadcast out of Manhattan) non-existent? Can someone please help me out :(

unfornately in a tall apartment building,your antenna choices are extremely limited.the reason Fox and 9 come in so well is that they're the ''strongest" stations broadcasting from the ESB.you are receiving NJN and 21 because of multipath reflections off the other apartment buildings,I receive NJN in the same way,even though the transmitter is fairly distant,I can receive it with only 20s on the signal meter.

So would u say I am stuck with just 2 HD channels? Will CBS, NBC, ABC, or CW11 ever boost their signals to those of FOX and My9?

It is very doubtful that any of the stations currently broadcasting from the ESB will invest any additional money in that facility.

We'll all have to wait for the Freedom Tower!

So would u say I am stuck with just 2 HD channels?it seems that way,a longshot would be to keep trying out antennas,but we all know what a pain it is to try them out and return them.

Thanks guys

Could you find a friend in another nearby building that has a clear shot to your building and to ESB, take two directional antennas, connect them together, aim one at the ESB, aim the other at your location, if you aimed at at your friend antenna pointing towars you would you then be able to receive a signal ? I've heard it done with 802.11G freqs, wonder if it would work with UHF ?

Forget it guys, I finally figured it out through two days of trial and error. All I did was connect my digital cable (from Cablevision) directly into my DVICO capture card and did a scan for all digital channels. The capture card picked up all of the local HD digital channels and I am finally able to capture them. Thanks anyways guys you really helped me out. So I don't need an antenna after all....thank God. I thought I would be stuck with an $150 HD capture card that only picked up 2 HD channels.

Is this a good place to report that I have a DirecTV Tivo outage in New York City? I want to confirm whether it is me or others.

Thanks,
BZ

The NY local HD channels are working for me on DirecTV.

Is this a good place to report that I have a DirecTV Tivo outage in New York City? I want to confirm whether it is me or others.

Thanks,
BZ


no problems here.... MPEG4 HD locals on D* are up, OTA HD locals are up and MPEG2 HD locals (80, 82, 86 & 88)are up.

How far can you be from NYC and still receive OTA. I live in Warwick, NY, 44 miles from the Empire state building. Is it possible, with a good antenna, to receive the digital channels. I don't want to go through the expense if it is for nothing.

In depends on so many variables.

The main one, obstructions between your home and the ESB.

The higher you can mount an antenna, the better.

Look around in your neighborhood. Do you see other homeowners with antennas?

Talk to people, ask questions.

Are there local TV stores where they install antennas?

What about going into Radio Shack?

Wish you well.

just order from a place that allows returns... the people at antennas direct (http://www.antennasdirect.com) are very easy to work with and can get you set up with a nice long range antenna (probably a DB8) and if it doesn't work they should allow you to return it (i know they have in the past). pick up a mount (chimney, eaves, etc..) and a mast from radio shack (should be no more than $35 for both and you're good to go. if it doesn't work all of those should be returnable.

but like gary said... it really is a crap shoot.

I think I'm like 48 miles (in the other direction) and I'm touch and go with an ATIC antenna. Just moving it up and down a foot or 2 can make a big differnce. So If I mounted it up high on my roof, I think I'd be OK.

So it's possible, but as Gary points out theirs a million variables so there are no certainty's....

Do you live on a hill top in Warwick or in town ?
I live near exit 3 on I-84, Middletown, NY and pickup HD for 2,5,7,9,11,31,50,62 and more.
13 comes in good when the weather is right, 4 is just too weak.

How far can you be from NYC and still receive OTA. I live in Warwick, NY, 44 miles from the Empire state building. Is it possible, with a good antenna, to receive the digital channels. .


My home (on Long Island) is located approximately 40 miles from the Empire State Building, and I receive all the channels being transmitted from this tower reliably. Even more, If I use my antenna rotator, I can receive a few channels from New Jersey and Connecticut. But for the best reception at this distance, you have to use a good fringe rated antenna (mounted on your roof) and a preamplifier, along with the shortest possible length of high quality coaxial cable. In my case, the system is comprised of a ChannelMaster CM4228 8 bay UHF antenna and a CM7777 preamplifier. And, I have the antenna mounted with a 6' RadioShack mast near the lowest part of my roofline. If I desired, I could gain about 10' in antenna height by mounting the antenna to the chimney, but the current system performance is more than satisfactory as is.

I don't want to go through the expense if it is for nothing.

If you already own a receiver, or your TV is equipped with an OTA digital tuner then you could purchase the CM4228 and the CM7777 for about $122.00 + shipping here:
http://www.solidsignal.com/

In addition, if you are going to mount an antenna, you can install a top quality rotator for about $85.00, which can be very helpful for fringe area reception. As an example, in my system, the antenna orientation that results in the highest signal strength for channel 4 WNBC, differs by about 10 degrees from the orientation that works best with the other channels that are also being transmitted from the ESB tower. And I have to admit, this is a little weird, but channel 4 is not reliable unless I change the orientation as described - even though all the channels originate from the same tower. Also, one other aspect of OTA reception that makes it all worth the effort, is the fantastic HD picture quality attainable. And this quality, is in comparison with some other cable or satellite HD broadcasts that tend to be less satisfying, especially with sports broadcasts.

Hopefully this small photo of my OTA antenna setup will show up with this message.

Steve
Orange County
Middletown, NY

Steve, you can get all locals? If so that is great! Middletown is farther away then I am.

Sorry, I see you above post. I live near Florida, NY. In a flat area. No major hills but I don't know my elevation.

WNET anyone??

I posted earlier this month. Despite a LOS view of the ESB (about six miles) and excellent reception of WABC, WNBC, WCBS, WNYW, WPIX, WWOR and the Univision stations (and probably others I haven't bothered with) I have no signal from WNET. This station worked decently (though the poorest of thee bunch) until early in January.

Is anybody receiving a signal? Have they changed transmitters or frequency? Insights and speculation are welcome.

I have a Sylvania 6842PE with a Sansung DBTH260F HDTV receiver to catch local HD air stations. My first try with an antenna (a cheap powered one from Radio Shack) picked up 14-18 stations, but no CBS (2.1) or PBS. All other stations came in very well with the antenna pointed towards the Empire State Building, as per requested by antennaweb. I then purchased a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna. I am getting a much stronger signal on all stations, am able to catch 18 total, but still no CBS or PBS. I am pretty sure the CBS signal is coming from the Empire State Building (at least from the same direction as Fox, ABC, NBC, etc... according to antennaweb). Maybe the CBS signal is weaker? Is anyone else in Brooklyn (Clinton Hills area) having similar problems. I've tried aiming the antenna in every possible direction to increase the CBS signal. Again, I am able to pick up all the other major stations, but CBS is a "weak or no signal". I apologize in advance for my lack of technical terminology here. I am a new to all this. Any information or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

actually pretty much eveyone but fox is using space on CBS' antenna. So in theory if you can get nbc, abc then you should get cbs. Of course there are a million variable.

Maybe the PSIP data is bad- if you tune to 56-1 does that help?

actually pretty much eveyone but Fox is using space on CBS' antenna. So in theory if you can get NBC, ABC, then you should get CBS.
Not really, and as you note there are variables, such as different power levels for the different stations on the combiner. NBC has a very weak signal.

I have a Sylvania 6842PE with a Sansung DBTH260F HDTV receiver to catch local HD air stations. My first try with an antenna (a cheap powered one from Radio Shack) picked up 14-18 stations, but no CBS (2.1) or PBS. All other stations came in very well with the antenna pointed towards the Empire State Building, as per requested by antennaweb. I then purchased a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna. I am getting a much stronger signal on all stations, am able to catch 18 total, but still no CBS or PBS. I am pretty sure the CBS signal is coming from the Empire State Building (at least from the same direction as Fox, ABC, NBC, etc... according to antennaweb). Maybe the CBS signal is weaker? Is anyone else in Brooklyn (Clinton Hills area) having similar problems. I've tried aiming the antenna in every possible direction to increase the CBS signal. Again, I am able to pick up all the other major stations, but CBS is a "weak or no signal". I apologize in advance for my lack of technical terminology here. I am a new to all this. Any information or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

That is strange. 2 is one of the channels I get WITHOUT even plugging in the powered antenna I use. 5 & 7 are the others. I'm in Flatbush area.

OOOHHHH- Made me think.

the problem could be that the cbs signal is the strongest (since it's their antenna)- so if guys close in amplify it you might wind up overpowering the tuner and it will look as if it's not there.

billyparrot- where are you located.

Not really, and as you note there are variables, such as different power levels for the different stations on the combiner. NBC has a very weak signal.


agreed- a million variables- was just speaking in general terms for MOST people in the signal's footprint (being the largest DMA- even if those of us with weird situations likely could account for hundreds of thousannds or millons- I can get Fox and CBS but not the others too out here at the fringe). Sorry if i wasn't so clear.

Of course everyone is likely to have a differnt experience.

One funny(as in odd) bit are the reports that aiming the antenna off to the side a bit can get in NBC but not the others.

thanks for all the info.
i am in the clinton hill/bed-stuy area of brooklyn.
zip code 11216

i'll try 56-1 tonight when i get home.
...have to try and resolve this before the superbowl...

looks like the terk is amplified?

So might try unplugging the power from it or getting the unamplified version. There's like 3 or 5 companies selling that style antenna. Generally referred to as the silver sensor. So a non-amplified version might be good for you. Phillips and Zenith I know sell unamplified versions.

Again there are a million variables but i have the unamplified version and I'm about FOURTY miles to philly and get many of those stations fine with it. I'm about 50 miles to NYC and I need an amp to get those- so in some situations the unamplified version works out to 40ish miles. Just some benchmarks. As above there's tons of variable but i'd guess being just a few miles out you dont need an amp at all.

thanks.
the terk antenna is amplified.
i'll try and see how it works with the power turned off.
hopefully that does the trick. i'll keep everyone posted.

well, no cbs on 56,
and no cbs with the amplification off.
i'll try again and experiment a little later...

sorry couldn't be of more assistance.

a little good news:
i ran a cable so i could place the antenna right up against a window, propped the antenna on its back so the array was pointing straight up into the sky, and i am now able to catch cbs. the signal is low and drops out often. and with laguardia to the north and jfk to the south there are a lot of planes flying over brooklyn. the signal drops out on pretty much all 18 channels every couple of minutes...the tv screen goes blank and silent and you can hear a plane flying overhead. but in regards to the cbs signal, at least i finally found it. my line of sight isn't terribly obstructed, but it is brooklyn, home to thousands of brownstones and tall tress. having to have an indoor antenna pointed straight up towards the blue sky leads me to believe i might need to try an outdoor antenna.
thanks for all your comments!

my experiences with indoor antennas have been fickle to say the least. i'm in chelsea with a north facing walk up on the 5th floor and an indoor antenna just wasn't cutting it for me (keep in mind i'm only 10 blocks south and 3 avenues west of ESB). walking around the room would cause the signal to fade and drop on and off. when the signal was working it was 90+, but it just seemed to have a low tolerance for objects that interfered with its path. i have access to the roof so it was an easy decision to ditch the silver sensor and mount a DB2 and run a cable into the apt. now i'm peaked at 98-100 on 2,4,5,7,9,11 and 13. if you're not partial to a certain brand of antennas i always recommend the products at antennas direct (http://www.antennasdirect.com).

aside from the fact that there is no way to mount it easily outdoors- the silver sensor series probably are just as good as the DB2 or anything else on the smaller side of things. So even wire tying it to a fire escape or some other cheesy approach with mounting the silver sensor might work fine if you need instant gratification.

I'm like 40 Miles from philly and a silver sensor in my attic is almost as good as a CM 4228 (similar to the DB2's big brother the DB4) for that distance- I'm amazed at what that silly little peice of stamped metal can do....

(I'm more like 50 miles to NYC and the silver sensor is significantly inferior to the 4228 at that distance- but for 40 miles it holds it's own)

oh yeah... i know i could have fashioned up some sort of mount for the silver sensor, but since i have the top two floors 5 & 6, an excess of RG6 cable and a compression tool it was a no brainer to do a more permanent mount that can withstand high winds and bad weather. no to mention it only cost me $60-70 to do the install. i used a chimney mount with a 5ft antenna mast and it is rock solid.

also, i couldn't agree more that the silver sensor is amazing for what it is and also what it costs... heck, it was pulling in VHF analog feeds more clearly than time warner provides them with their analog service. lol. thank god i was able to talk the landlord into letting me do a non penetrating mount for directv.

you would thing someone would market the silver sensor peice of tin without the fancy plastic and ith a U bolt so you could just use that for a real outdoor mount...

hehe. my only concern would be that the "wing" type design would make it very susceptible to wind, but yeah... it is surprising.

things have improved even more. i ran a little extra cable and moved the antenna to a further window with the antenna standing like its supposed to: with the array horizontal to the ground as apposed to aiming it into the sky, with the dipoles not extended. additionally, the array is now facing north/northeast, about 90 degrees away from the empire state building and straight into the wall of the neighboring building. i guess i'm getting some serious reflection in the area behind my building. in any event, signals are coming in at 80-90% and only fox and that music video station (the tube) cut out due to overhead airplane traffic, mostly after 6pm.

one last thing to try if you ahven't- the phillips version of that antenna- you can pull the actuall antenna bit out of the stand and rotate it 90 degrees so it's aiming at the source but vertically. I never had any luck with that- but I dont have the reflection issues you guys in the city will have- maybe it is meant to help that?

The Zenith version of the Silver Sensor can also be oriented vertically.

It only helped me that way with one channel, one in which I wasn't interested.

With digital reception and especially with an indoor antenna, you've got to try
everything.

yes, i've tried that. with the terk antenna you can have the array in a vertical or horizatal position. right now it seems to work better in horizontal position.

still haven't been able to pick up pbs/13, so i will be doing some more experimentation.

Keep trying to pick up 13, but if you don't - you're not alone.

Although it transmits from the Combiner on the ESB, this station has the lowest power and highest Channel allocation (61) of all the major NY City stations.

It's very difficult. sometimes impossible for many of us to receive.

My home (on Long Island) is located approximately 40 miles from the Empire State Building, and I receive all the channels being transmitted from this tower reliably. Even more, If I use my antenna rotator, I can receive a few channels from New Jersey and Connecticut. But for the best reception at this distance, you have to use a good fringe rated antenna (mounted on your roof) and a preamplifier, along with the shortest possible length of high quality coaxial cable. In my case, the system is comprised of a ChannelMaster CM4228 8 bay UHF antenna and a CM7777 preamplifier. And, I have the antenna mounted with a 6' RadioShack mast near the lowest part of my roofline. If I desired, I could gain about 10' in antenna height by mounting the antenna to the chimney, but the current system performance is more than satisfactory as is..



If you already own a receiver, or your TV is equipped with an OTA digital tuner then you could purchase the CM4228 and the CM7777 for about $122.00 + shipping here:
http://www.solidsignal.com/

I look upon Dibenzylacetone as the 40 mile WNBC-DT wonder of LI. I posted my last progress on the LI-OTA thread but this one is more active, so I'm reposting here:

I installed a CM4228 on the same 10 ft pole and used the same 300 ohm input CM 3041DSB preamp. The CM4228 feeds 1-2 ft of 300 ohm twinlead carefully threaded thru the "chicken-wire" rear of the the 4228, with some electrical tape holding the cable centerd between the chickenwire.

I tuned the direction of the new antenna and wound up basically where the old antenna is pointing, which is consistent with the antennaweb direction, basically due west. I did the tuning using the CBS signal and the WNBC signal. No obvious improvement for WNBC-DT, signal is basically zero. I DID pick up a marginal signal on WNET, which was basically zero before. So it seems like the antenna has gained me something on the high end (WNET = 61), but nothing useful on the low end (WNBC = 28). Note that I did follow Dibenzylacetone's suggestion and pointed quite a bit off the expected direction for WNBC-DT and still got bupkus.

I also scanned Google earth due west for a few miles and discovered that the land is either my height (~120') or lower.

I could replace the preamp with one with a lower NF, but it seems like the CMs are all 75 ohm input, which means I'd have to use a balun at the anteanna feed and then 1-2 feet of coax.

Any suggestions for receiving WNBC-DT in Lake Ronkonkoma? Opinions?

billyparriott. I had a similiar issue with the terk slimline, not receiving 4-1, 11-1, 13-1. I tried a couple of other antennas, with somewhat better results, but not perfect. Ended up adding an amplifier to the terk with great success. 9,11, and 13 are dead on. Every so often I'll have intermitant break up on 4-1,, but for the most part it's good, but not reliable enough to record blindly.

Help me out here if you can.. I have no problem receiving the 3 Digital PBS stations OTA on
(13-1, 13-2, 13-3) But none of these are the local analog broadcasts. Is this programming on channel 61? (or would that be 61-1)... When I attempt to tune to channel 61, my tuner redirects to channel 13-1...Not sure why)..Another MAJOR issue is my inability to decode the NJN digital channels.. I can get signal levels in the high 80's, but can not decode it, get message"poor signal quality" on the screen. I can receive the analog ch. 50 quite well but not the digital. If I go through the auto program function, it's likely I will receive it, but the next day I cant receive it..even with what appears to be adequate levels. Looking forward to your responses!
Barknee

Help me out here if you can.. I have no problem receiving the 3 Digital PBS stations OTA on
(13-1, 13-2, 13-3) But none of these are the local analog broadcasts. Is this programming on channel 61? (or would that be 61-1)... When I attempt to tune to channel 61, my tuner redirects to channel 13-1...Not sure why)..Another MAJOR issue is my inability to decode the NJN digital channels.. I can get signal levels in the high 80's, but can not decode it, get message"poor signal quality" on the screen. I can receive the analog ch. 50 quite well but not the digital. If I go through the auto program function, it's likely I will receive it, but the next day I cant receive it..even with what appears to be adequate levels. Looking forward to your responses!
Barknee


the ATSC standard has a thing called PSIP which basically lets the station use virtual channel numbers. So analog WNET is on channel 13. THe digital version is on 61- but they use the PSIP data to tell the tv to call it channel 13-1, 13-2, etc. That way the station doesn't loose their brand. WHen you dial 13-1 on your set then it just find the station and you dont need to know where it is. Channel 61 actually will go bye bye and be sold off by the goverenmtn when analog is shut down. So the digital version of WNET will move somplace else but you wont need to know what channel it winds up on- since the PSIP data will handle it and you will still be able to just punch in 13-1 and get it.

the NJN's are somewhat trying (like all pbs's I should say) all the PBS's have budget issues i guess so they just dont broadcast a high powered signal. So for many people they just come and go...

What puzzles me is that the programming on analog CH13 is completely different from the 3 digital channels available... I was wondering if a digital channel is available of the same analog broadcast locally.. Thank you very much for your reply!
Barknee

What puzzles me is that the programming on analog CH13 is completely different from the 3 digital channels available... I was wondering if a digital channel is available of the same analog broadcast locally.. Thank you very much for your reply!
Barknee

Unfortunately, no!

billyparriott. I had a similiar issue with the terk slimline, not receiving 4-1, 11-1, 13-1. I tried a couple of other antennas, with somewhat better results, but not perfect. Ended up adding an amplifier to the terk with great success. 9,11, and 13 are dead on. Every so often I'll have intermitant break up on 4-1,, but for the most part it's good, but not reliable enough to record blindly.


the terk i have (hdtva) is already amplified.
was the terk you were using already amplified and you added an additional amplifier? what amplifier did you add?

just wanted to report that my OTA DTV has resumed working all of the sudden as of last night. so that's about 4 weeks of outage that seemed to only affect me (my area?) of north queens right by the whitestone bridge, and no one else. weird. i was about to buy a new external atsc tuner thinking my internal one went bad.

Hi,

I've posted a couple of times about not receiving WNET (PBS) despite having a line of sight view of the ESB and getting high quality signals from ABC, NBC, CBS, Univison, FOX, etc. I am about 6 mi from the ESB with an external antenna pointed at the mast - I could watch King Kong swat police helicopters.

There seems to be something wrong with WNET - it is not just a weak signal. I get no signal at all. I did receive a signal - pretty good in fact - until early in January.
My tuner is set to: 755000000 Hz (ch 61 752 - 758)

If others are getting WNET at this frequency, then something seriously odd is happening.

Hi All,

I have to agree with nyc-pchdtv3000 about WNET-HD(13). There is definitely something wrong here. It's not that the signal is low, it fluctuates a lot, unlike other stations.

I'm a newbie to this OTA HDTV stuff, but I did some research before I jumped in. I am about 11 miles from ESB, but have a 100' hill in from of me, so I knew I would have issues from the start. I decided to install the Radio Shack U-75R for $25 on the roof anlong with a 25DB UHF preamplifier last Sun. Fired up the TV and WOW, I was getting all the local digital channels with good to perfect signal. Here is the run down:

Strength Type PicQual Dropouts Station Channel Direction Distance
34 480i Good No WNYE-DT 24 (25)* 38.4°* 8.23*mi*
97 1080i Perfect No WNBC-DT 28 (4)* 19.6°* 10.95*mi*
88 480i Good No WPXN-DT 30 (31)* 19.6°* 10.95*mi
97 1080i Perfect No WPIX-DT 33 (11)* 19.6°* 10.95*mi*
74 720p Excellent No WWOR-DT 38 (9) 19.6° 10.95*mi*
15 720p Breakup Yes WXTV-DT 40 (41)* 19.6°* 10.95*mi*
82 720p Excellent No WNYW-DT 44 (5)* 19.6°* 10.95*mi*
97 1080i Perfect No WCBS-DT 56 (2)* 19.6°* 10.95*mi*
74 1080i Perfect No WNET-DT 61 (13) 19.6° 10.95 mi
88 720p Excellent No WABC-DT 45 (7)* 18°* 11.39*mi*
88 480i VG No WFUT-DT 53 (68)* 18°* 11.39*mi*
21 480i Breakup Yes WFME-DT 29 (66)* 312.4°* 14.44*mi*
70 480i VG No WNJU-DT 36 (47)* 315.9°* 15.01*mi*
89 480i Good No WMBC-DT 18 (63)* 329.6°* 18.01*mi*
82 1080i Perfect No WNJN-DT 51 (50)* 329.6°* 18.01*mi*
73 480i Good No WNJB-DT 8 (58)* 257.8°* 21.19*mi*
61 480i Good No WLIW-DT 22 (21)* 57°* 35.97*mi*


I was very excited, especially with WNET, since the pic Sun night was was amazing. As you all know, it snowed Sun night, so I figured it would be a little worse, which it was for most stations. Stations like WLIW were breaking up because they were on the fringe with signal anyway and my ant was not pointing at them, but the strong stations at ESB went down to 88%, not bad and no breakup. But WNET pic was totally gone with 15% signal. I figured it was the snow.

It got better during the day (40&%), but then that night - gone (15%). The next day, breakup during the day, then 70% at night and steady. It's been on and off with signal at 3 diff levels and fluctualting when below 70%. The hours it's at 70% it's steady. It's almost af if they are changing the power with certain hours or programs, but you would think prime time eve would always be good. Wondering if more people are experiencing this?

I need some help guys. I am in Bensonhurst brooklyn and i just got new Sony 46" V2500 lcd tv thats "hdtv ready" . I need help getting HDTV (since all the channels look absolutely horrible on the 46"). Wht equipment should i get?

Sorry if this is off topic. Please PM me if this might lead to "thread crap".

First and foremost, you need a High Definition source. That is, HD Cable service, HD Satellite Service, or an antenna that will allow you to pick-up local stations in High Definition.

As far as the antenna is concerned, an outdoor antenna would be best. Do you have line-of-sight, that is, an unobstructed view, to the top of the Empire State Building?

Even without line-of-site, an outdoor antenna is preferable.

If an outdoor installation is not possible, you could try an indoor antenna - I use one called the Silver Sensor - it's marketed by Zenith and Philips.

Hope this helps. Hurry, the game is tomorrow!!!!!

Does your HDTV ready TV mean it does not have a built in HD tuner ?

It has a HDTV tuner. If i go on my roof i can see the top of the empire state building and lower manhattan. Can i get some inputs on indoor antennas from fellow new yorkers?

I guess i'll have to watch the game in SD :(

It has a HDTV tuner. If i go on my roof i can see the top of the empire state building and lower manhattan. Can i get some inputs on indoor antennas from fellow new yorkers?

I guess i'll have to watch the game in SD :(

gary's suggestion is what i would recommend as well.... get a silver sensor. i found mine at the circuit city in union square.. $25 or so.

Thanks, i'll try this one out.
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Philips-Indoor-HDTV-Antenna-PHDTV1/sem/rpsm/oid/158311/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Has anyone else noticed that Channel 25(.1) dropped 25.2 and 25.3 a while ago?

25.2 was a City Driving Guide (?) with some woman talking about traffic issues local to NYC and showing live images from B&W traffic cameras which, of course, looked glorious on a large widescreen HDTV. (They looked like bad surveillance footage!).

25.3 was the color bars test pattern for months. I assumed they were getting ready to use the subchannel for programming, but I guess not.

I suppose that the City dropped the subchannels when it realized it would have to provide childrens programming on the subchannels as well.

I'm glad they're gone, but 25.1 doesn't have any HD programming to benefit from the restored bandwith.

Has anyone else noticed that Channel 25(.1) dropped 25.2 and 25.3 a while ago?

25.2 was a City Driving Guide (?) with some woman talking about traffic issues local to NYC and showing live images from B&W traffic cameras which, of course, looked glorious on a large widescreen HDTV. (They looked like bad surveillance footage!).

25.3 was the color bars test pattern for months. I assumed they were getting ready to use the subchannel for programming, but I guess not.

I suppose that the City dropped the subchannels when it realized it would have to provide childrens programming on the subchannels as well.

I'm glad they're gone, but 25.1 doesn't have any HD programming to benefit from the restored bandwith.

Yeah, I noticed that too. It would actually be nice if they put the 3 NYC-TV cable channels on there. Why should they be cable only at this point?

I just hope they take it off stretch though. They should already have enough children's programming to cycle through those channels if need be.

I am a newbie to this site and to the OTA HDTV information all together. Over the past year I have been looking at this site and have found the information to be most helpful. So helpful that I purchased what I thought was the correct equipment for my application, but am having difficulty and need a little guidance. I live in Valley Cottage, New York (10989) approximately 30 miles north of the city. I purchased a Sony Bravia LCD TV with a built in HDTV tuner and also purchased the largest Channel Master antenna (3671) that they make (the more metal in the air the better, right?). I've got it mounted to the roof of a one story building on a approximately 15' foot mount. I do not have direct line of sight to the Empire State building due to a slight hill. I've got the antenna pointed in the right heading in regards to compass heading and I am not getting any HD signals? I am totally baffled?? I am receiving the analog signals off the antenna, so I know my cable is good and it is pointed correctly in the general direction. I was told that I do not need an amplifier due to my close proximity to the city and the size antenna I have. I was also told that the antenna should work within about 15 degrees of dead on to the city? I do not know where to begin my trouble shooting?? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Jeff

I hope someone from WNBC sees this post!

This morning, about 6:45 a.m., tuned in the local news in HD and noticed that the picture was strange. The horizontal ticker at the bottom of the screen appeared "jerky" - not the smooth motion it usually displays. Looked further then at pictures of hosts and reporters doing standups on location, and something is wrong!

Then the network took over with Today and the same problem was apparent.

I'll bet anything that somehow, the station is outputting its video at 24 f.p.s. vs the normal frame rate of 30 frames.

Just checked the picture and the same problem it there.

I am totally baffled?? I am receiving the analog signals off the antenna, so I know my cable is good and it is pointed correctly in the general direction. I was told that I do not need an amplifier due to my close proximity to the city and the size antenna I have. I was also told that the antenna should work within about 15 degrees of dead on to the city? I do not know where to begin my trouble shooting?? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Jeff[/QUOTE]

Hi Jeff....
Make sure you read through your manual to assure that you are setting up properly... If you are in the auto-seek mode, allowing your TV to select all available channels for you, made certain that you have selected the "digital & analog" mode and not the "Analog only" mode for that scan sequence... I live in New Hempstead, in Rockland and receive all local digital stations VIA my indoor rabbit ear antenna, with a slight tweak needed once in a while. If you have a hill between yourself and the broadcast source I would try to receive the broadcast by trying to pick up the signal by elevating the angle of the antenna vertically toward the source; perhaps changing the polarization of the antenna may help- even trying to pick up the signal reflected off another object from the opposite direction of the source. Although your obstruction to the broadcast could be part of the problem, I have to admit that in my experience with other Sony products, the tuner specs do tend to be a bit soft in the sensitivity and selectivity department. Would be great if a someone you know, who has a smaller digital TV, bring it over and give it a try on your antenna. (Do you have a rotor on it?)
Barknee

I've got the antenna pointed in the right heading in regards to compass heading and I am not getting any HD signals? I am totally baffled?? I am receiving the analog signals off the antenna, so I know my cable is good and it is pointed correctly in the general direction. I was told that I do not need an amplifier due to my close proximity to the city and the size antenna I have. I was also told that the antenna should work within about 15 degrees of dead on to the city? I do not know where to begin my trouble shooting?? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Jeff

Does the TV have a signal strength meter or a way to manually tune the actual UHF channels the digital channels reside on? This would greatly aid in setting up your digital channels.

Does the TV have a signal strength meter or a way to manually tune the actual UHF channels the digital channels reside on? This would greatly aid in setting up your digital channels.


I did make sure the TV was set to Digital mode and no the TV does not have a strength meter on it? I also do not have a rotor on the antenna, so any move I make means I have to go up on a ladder to adjust the antenna. I was hoping someone from the forum might be in my general location for some helpful hints? Does anyone sell a strength meter like Radio Shack that would help with pointing the antenna? Thanks in advance for the help guys!

I did make sure the TV was set to Digital mode and no the TV does not have a strength meter on it? I also do not have a rotor on the antenna, so any move I make means I have to go up on a ladder to adjust the antenna. I was hoping someone from the forum might be in my general location for some helpful hints? Does anyone sell a strength meter like Radio Shack that would help with pointing the antenna? Thanks in advance for the help guys!

One thing you can try is tune to an analog signal from the same source on a close channel if possible. Adjust the antenna for minimum ghost (not minimum snow) and see if that position helps. As has been said more time than one can count a rotor is worth the price after a few trips up and down that ladder.

ARFF22 make sure the antenna is conencted to the VHF/UHF input and not the CATV input.

If one lives in Manhattan, should one need an antenna to pick up any HDTV signals OTA or should the signal strength be such that like with analog signals, an antenna isn't really necessary, it just assists?

I live in Manhattan, and believe me, I do need an antenna.

I think I can barely receive a snow-filled analogue picture on one channel without an antenna.


Antennas are not an option!

I live in Manhattan, and believe me, I do need an antenna.

I think I can barely receive a snow-filled analogue picture on one channel without an antenna.


Antennas are not an option!
Thanks! Any antenna that is recommended for an apt here? I looked through the thread but didn't see any recommended overwhelmingly.

I use an indoor antenna known at the Silver Sensor.

Mine is made by Zenith. There is the same antenna on sale at Circuit City
marketed under the Philips name, and it goes for just about $25.

Try it - but it's difficult to say what the results will be.

You'll have to try various locations in your apartment.

Fortunately, with Circuit City you'll be able to return it.

Mine works wonders in the caverns of Manhattan.

I am a newbie to this site and to the OTA HDTV information all together. Over the past year I have been looking at this site and have found the information to be most helpful. So helpful that I purchased what I thought was the correct equipment for my application, but am having difficulty and need a little guidance. I live in Valley Cottage, New York (10989) approximately 30 miles north of the city. Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I grew up in Congers, wife is from Valley Cottage. The whole area is circled by hills. Unless you live on a hilltop you might need that preamp. I've had great results with the Channel Master 7777 pre amp. Depending on the antenna, pointing it as accurately as possible is critical to picking up a signal.

Steve

If one lives in Manhattan, should one need an antenna to pick up any HDTV signals OTA or should the signal strength be such that like with analog signals, an antenna isn't really necessary, it just assists?

i actually got a viewable picture on the major nets with just a 5ft RG6 cable plugged into the ANT input on my TV... nothing plugged into the other end.. hehe. of course the DB2 mounted on the roof workes much better. :)

Does anyone know when the CBS station in NYC will be switching to HD? Seems they are lagging far behind NBC and ABC....



thanks for any info

I did make sure the TV was set to Digital mode and no the TV does not have a strength meter on it? I also do not have a rotor on the antenna, so any move I make means I have to go up on a ladder to adjust the antenna. I was hoping someone from the forum might be in my general location for some helpful hints? Does anyone sell a strength meter like Radio Shack that would help with pointing the antenna? Thanks in advance for the help guys!


Personally, I would try a good quality indoor antenna which will give you the convenience of sweeping the horizon without repeatedly climbing on the roof and making small adjustments and checking for a signal inside. The Silver Sensor sounds like a great product based on the reviews I've read. You can even try a rabbit ear antenna with the proper end connector should you have one in the house.
You will have potentially better performance with a properly aligned indoor antenna than a mis-aligned outdoor antenna.
Barknee

I live in North Jersey (Clifton) is this the right place to ask questions?

I live in North Jersey (Clifton) is this the right place to ask questions?


sure. ask away... that is assuming your questions are about NYC locals.

I searche deverywhere locally for the Silver sesnor and they were all sold out. Does anyone have experience with the Terk HDTVa (or HDTVi? they look like th same antennas but they probably got the name mixed). The Terk sells for 60+ (at best buy) but i know an electronics store that sells them for less than 30.

Stay away from Terk - overpriced and underperforming!

The Silver Sensor is available through Circuit City - where it's marketed as
Philips PHDTV1.

It can also be found as a Zenith model at solidsignal.com and *********************

The antenna is worth the search!

So, I got a non-amplified Philips antenna (all that Circuit City had) and am able to pick up 4, 9, 11, 31 but not 2, 5 or 7. Any ideas why this might be? I was under the impression that NBC, ABC and FOX were all broadcast from ESB (which I am just north of, up on the UWS) so I'd think with my antenna pointing at ESB I'd be able to pick them all up about the same.

So, I got a non-amplified Philips antenna (all that Circuit City had) and am able to pick up 4, 9, 11, 31 but not 2, 5 or 7. Any ideas why this might be? I was under the impression that NBC, ABC and FOX were all broadcast from ESB (which I am just north of, up on the UWS) so I'd think with my antenna pointing at ESB I'd be able to pick them all up about the same.

If you are very close to the ESB, I would try elevating (tilting) the forward part of the antenna about 20-45 degrees up toward the signal source (above the horizon). For those very close to the ESB, the emanated signal is radiating in a pattern that is probably well above the reception point due to the height of the transmission point. Give it a try, as this is a very directional indoor antenna!

you can also rotate the silver sensors in the stand so the elements are vertical instead of horizontal. I live like 48 miles out so it has no effect by me, but maybe the set it up with that possibility for those of you so close?

I searche deverywhere locally for the Silver sesnor and they were all sold out. Does anyone have experience with the Terk HDTVa (or HDTVi? they look like th same antennas but they probably got the name mixed). The Terk sells for 60+ (at best buy) but i know an electronics store that sells them for less than 30.


b&h photo has the terk amplified for about $38, the unamplified for $10 less.
they have quite a few other brands, indoor and outdoor.

I live in Bootiful Brooklyn and am new to the HD world. My new Westy 32" is connected to my old rooftop antenna and picks up digital CBS, NBC, Fox, Ch 9, Ch 11, Ch31 etc... without any problem. What I can't seem to get is ABC and PBS. The problem I have is that my antenna is basically unreachable, being mounted on my 3 1/2 story tall highly pitched roof. You can see the ESB from my 3rd Floor windows, so I have a clear LOS. The analog stations all come in OK as well as there aren't any tall buildings in the area.

Also, there are a few digital channels where I get sound but no picture. Since I don't know what these are anyway I don't really care.

I'm going to need a new roof soon, but until then is there anything I should try short of going up there?

And with all this being said, I can't remember the last time I actually watched something on ABC! And only kids shows are watched on PBS.

I'm assuming your "old" antenna is VHF/UHF?

what does your signal strength look like on the digital channels you mentioned? what about ABC and PBS?... nill?

if your results are marginal you could look at a decent indoor antenna or an outdoor antenna mounted in the attic (assuming you have an attic)?

Does anyone have experience with the Terk HDTVa (or HDTVi? they look like th same antennas but they probably got the name mixed).

I had the Terk HDTVi and it was okay. The HDTVa is the same antenna, but amplified.

Then I bought the DB2 from Antennas Direct and it got rid of most of the audio and video dropouts. (I live in East Williamsburg, Brooklyn, on the ground floor with no right to mount an outdoor antenna and no line-of-sight to ESB.)

I use an indoor antenna known at the Silver Sensor.
....
Mine works wonders in the caverns of Manhattan.
I have a Circuit City (Philips) Silver Sensor and all I can get is CBS (facing south UWS brownstone, no LoS to the ESB -- was that enough acronyms :)) I've tried moving the antenna around (out to the deck) -- no help -- that got me Univision, but lost CBS.

Is a rooftop antenna of some sort going to help? (Still no LoS to the ESB from the roof, tall buildings directly across the courtyard in the direction of the ESB). If so, is there one available from a local brick & mortar store?

Thanks!

b&h has a fair amount of outdoor antennas, but none that i would buy (if it were me). they sell 99% terk stuff, which i wouldn't recommend to anyone. like the post above you mentions... i have an DB2 (antennas direct) that i got from solid signal.... i know its a pain to have to order online, but its worth it to get a quality product.

I just received my Terk HDTVi in the mail today. Plugged it into my Sony 46 V2500 LCD tv (with HDTV tuner). I tried picking up local channels but they are all "fuzzy" with a lot of grain and noise. I live in a 2 story brick house and basically my whole neighborhood has the same type of house design. TV is on the first floor. Probably becase i live in NYC and the brick houses are interrupting the signal? My V2500 saids "No Signal" when i switch to analog channels. No matter how i position the antenna, regular VHF channels are noisy and i can't even detect UHF signals. Can i get some input on this?

Zip code is 11204 and i'm around 9.3 miles from the Empire state building.

I just go the RCA indoor antenna from BestBuy (ANT525) and I'm trying to tune, at the very least, the local CW11 affiliate in HD. I live in Brooklyn on Atlantic Avenue in the Boerum Hill area on the first floor of a 3 story building. The Antenna is hooked into my D* HR20 receiver, but i am not getting any signal at all. Any thoughts on how to adjust the antenna or if it's even a good one at all? Nothing I tweak seems to have any impact

most RCA antennas generally aren't very good,good thing BB will give you a full refund.You could try the Silver Sensor from Circuit City.

Noob questions
Hey, I'm new to OTA HDTV. I've been doing some reading and have a couple questions.

1. My zip code is 08246 (it's a tiny, tiny zip, so I live right in the center of the zip). When I put this into antennaweb, it only gives me info about ABC/FOX/CW from Philadelphia, PA and NBC from Atlantic City. I am fine with NBC Atlantic City, but I am shooting for ABC/CBS/FOX from New York, NY. According to antennaweb, the transmitter for those NY stations is 54.1 miles from Toms River, NJ. I live 63 miles due South of Toms River, so I figure I'm about 127 miles from the NY transmitters. it seems like there is some success getting stations from this far, especially since there isn't a single area that is even above sea level between myself, Toms River, and NY. It is flat as can be. Can anyone recommend any antenna/amp setup where I might be able to get the stations? Maybe one of these parabolic antennas? I understand this would have to be a pretty serious setup if feasible.

2. I think I already know the answer to this question. If the antenna setup works, is there any way to diplex it into my cable line and view the channels on my Motorola 6200 digital cable box? I assume the answer to this is no and I have to get a separate ATSC tuner for OTA, and use the digital cable box for the cable channels. I of course do get local channels from Comcast on the 6200, but although we used to get some locals from NY and Philadelphia, Comcast has been taking away the NY stations (Comcast owns Philadelphia sports teams, and they ram them down our throats). Hence why I'm interested in an antenna solution.

Noob questions
Hey, I'm new to OTA HDTV. I've been doing some reading and have a couple questions.

1. My zip code is 08246 (it's a tiny, tiny zip, so I live right in the center of the zip). When I put this into antennaweb, it only gives me info about ABC/FOX/CW from Philadelphia, PA and NBC from Atlantic City. I am fine with NBC Atlantic City, but I am shooting for ABC/CBS/FOX from New York, NY. According to antennaweb, the transmitter for those NY stations is 54.1 miles from Toms River, NJ. I live 63 miles due South of Toms River, so I figure I'm about 127 miles from the NY transmitters. it seems like there is some success getting stations from this far, especially since there isn't a single area that is even above sea level between myself, Toms River, and NY. It is flat as can be. Can anyone recommend any antenna/amp setup where I might be able to get the stations? Maybe one of these parabolic antennas? I understand this would have to be a pretty serious setup if feasible.

2. I think I already know the answer to this question. If the antenna setup works, is there any way to diplex it into my cable line and view the channels on my Motorola 6200 digital cable box? I assume the answer to this is no and I have to get a separate ATSC tuner for OTA, and use the digital cable box for the cable channels. I of course do get local channels from Comcast on the 6200, but although we used to get some locals from NY and Philadelphia, Comcast has been taking away the NY stations (Comcast owns Philadelphia sports teams, and they ram them down our throats). Hence why I'm interested in an antenna solution.
You won't get New York. Analog TV signals reach around 75 miles on a good day; digital signals which incide HDTV much less, they start petering out after 55-60 miles, the station's so-called "grade B" contour. They're both limited by the earth's curvature. and the height of the transmit antenna, which in NYC's case is around 1200 feet - Empire State.
TV signals are different in that regard from AM or shortwave radio signals, which carry great distances for a 50 kw clear-channel station like WABC 770 or WFAN 660 here in NYC.
For example, Montauk, NY is 125 miles east of NYC; they can only get NYC OTA stations on cable .. anything OTA there is picked up faintly from Conn. or RI. You'd have to erect about a 1000 foot antenna filled with special antennae and amplifiers -- much like cable tv cos. do in fringe areas to get analog reception.
For you, DirecTV may be an alternative to get NY OTA stations (NBC East=WNBC, etc.)
You're probably in a fringe area for Phila. HDTV, too.

Hi,

My place in Brooklyn (11220) doesn't have an antenna on the roof, so I've been looking to get one. AntennaWeb indicates the channels of interest are either yellow or red (small multidirectional and medium directional, respectively). I tried a Zenith Silver Sensor and it can pick up 3 channels, but the channels aren't stable and has a tendency to go out when a plane flies overhead.

My question is, what type of antenna should I get for the roof? Do you know of a company that will install it (I don't know how to ground it properly)? And how much would doing this cost?

Hi,

My place in Brooklyn (11220) doesn't have an antenna on the roof, so I've been looking to get one. AntennaWeb indicates the channels of interest are either yellow or red (small multidirectional and medium directional, respectively). I tried a Zenith Silver Sensor and it can pick up 3 channels, but the channels aren't stable and has a tendency to go out when a plane flies overhead.

My question is, what type of antenna should I get for the roof? Do you know of a company that will install it (I don't know how to ground it properly)? And how much would doing this cost?

i would be interested in knowing how people in walk-ups/apt buildings ground their antennas as well. i installed my DB2 on the roof of my 6 story walk-up (manhattan). driving a grounding rod in the soil isn't an option where i live, so I'm not sure what (if any) options there are.... anyone?

i would be interested in knowing how people in walk-ups/apt buildings ground their antennas as well.

Grounding? Do people still do that? :D

Find a copper pipe somewhere in your plumbing and ground it to that.

Talk to an electrician - but I believe that metal, plumbing air vent pipes on a roof can be used as grounds.

Don't take my word, check it out!

Grounding? Do people still do that? :D


yeah, i paid out of pocket for a top notch D* tech to tweak my alignment (the techs D* sent were idiots and couldn't get it right) and i asked him about grounding and he said its a good thing to do to protect yourself... but he said that in the city with all the skyscrapers the chances of lightning striking a small antenna on a 6 story walk-up is very very slim.

i'll ask an electrician and see what they say.

I'm located about a third of a mile NW of the ESB, but in a high-rise apartment facing north. I just got a Samsung TS160 to use as an OTA receiver which I hooked up to a basic loop antenna to. I was expecting to either get everything or nothing since all the digital channels come from the ESB, but 'm a little surprised to see that I only get CBS2, WFUT68, WNET13, WWOR9, and WMBC63. I ordered a Circuit City Phillip's Silver Sensor which isn't here yet in the hopes that will help me get the rest of the channels.

In my situation should I expect to be able to get all the ESB digital channels? Should I be trying to aim through a skyscraper or north away from the ESB? Any advice on how I can improve my reception?

With UHF digital reception in the caverns of Manhattan - expect nothing that seems to be logical!

Although most New York Metropolitan area stations transmit from the ESB, and also most use WCBS-DT's antenna, don't automatically believe that if you receive one, you'll receive all. Different power and different frequencies.

You state that you're located NW of ESB in a high-rise facing north. It's great that you're receiving anything. I have the Silver Sensor and it is extremely directional and should help you. Unless you have line-of-site to the top of the ESB, you will be dealing with multipath signals - that is, signals that are bouncing off of other buildings before they reach your antenna. You will have to "walk" your Silver Sensor around your apartment until you find "sweet spots" that will allow for steady reception. "Sweet spots" can and will differ for each individual station.

I wish you well. Take deep breaths and show a lot of patience.

yes, don't give up. i am in brooklyn, 1st floor with brownstones on each side, and my antenna is pointing 90 degrees east of the esb. i guess i'm picking up reflections in my back yard. it took about an hour of trial and error, and i still can't catch 13, but all others are coming in strong. i also got good results aiming the antenna array straight up in the air. if you don't have line of sight try and aim high.

any1 here have a good recommendation for a good indoor antenna in nyc? i live on the upper east side on 2nd floor. my tv is in living next to the windows and my windows is facing northeast to the east river.

Look at my posting above, #6396.

The Silver Sensor is one of the best, if not the best you can get.

Circuit City sells it as the Philips Model #HDTV1

Try it, if anything can help, I believe it is the Silver Sensor.

Look at my posting above, #6396.

The Silver Sensor is one of the best, if not the best you can get.

Circuit City sells it as the Philips Model #HDTV1

Try it, if anything can help, I believe it is the Silver Sensor.

went to circuitcity.com and type in "Philips Model #HDTV1" in the search field and nothing pop up. what now?

any1 know where as they sell this antenna? and how for how much?

is this the antenna what u guys are talking about "silver sensor"

http://www.theelectroniccompany.com/zhd-tv1.html

but this one is from zenith and not by philips.

Zenith and Philips versions the same. Just stay away from Terk's model.

At circuitcity.com - Go to TV & Video - then Antennas & HD Receivers -
and there it is!

Also, available at solidsignal.com and *********************

It is hidden at Value - Go to Accessories - then HD Video Switches - then OTA Antennas

i also got good results aiming the antenna array straight up in the air. if you don't have line of sight try and aim high.

Fantastic advice! Thank you, I had practically given up. Now I receive:
CBS 2
ABC 7
WNYW Fox 9
WNET PBS 13
WMBC 63
WFUT 68
Got all the channels I was hoping for! =)
Now when's NBC going to start transmitting digitally?

Fantastic advice! Thank you, I had practically given up. Now I receive:
CBS 2
ABC 7
WNYW Fox 9
WNET PBS 13
WMBC 63
WFUT 68
Got all the channels I was hoping for! =)
Now when's NBC going to start transmitting digitally?

It already is. UHF 28

question for you guys.. i thought my setup was all set but i'm seeing vastly different signal strengths on 3 different HD tuners. i have a DB2 (antennas direct) on a 5 ft mast (chimney mount) with direct line of sight of the ESB. building is a 6 story walk-up only a few avenues and no more than 10 blocks from ESB. the roof has direct line of sight at ESB.. literally. obviously the transmitters are much much higher than my antenna, but i've tried holding the DB2 at an angle and it didn't seem to improve reception.
--------HR20----HR10-------PDP-5070 (pioneer built in tuner)
2-------100-------97-------------88
4-------100-------92-------------73
5--------93--------88------------69
7-------100-------94------------80
9-------100-------90------------82
11-----100--------91------------81
13-----100--------94------------79

i noticed during the heavy rain last night (thursday) that ABC was dropping on the HR10 (i was in bed and didn't check the others) and it got me thinking about tweaking things. is there anything i can do to even out these numbers? i have a single RG6 (15ft) coming into the apt into one splitter, that runs one into splitter and the other into the HR20. i've tried switching them around and the signals don't really vary that much. any ideas? suggestions?

being so close to the transmitters i expected my signal to be peaked at or near 100 on all of them... is that expecting too much?

You will never be able to "even out" your signal strength numbers among three different components.

Each receiver/tuner more than likely contains different chips and circuitry which will give you different results with the same input source. I use an indoor Silver Sensor antenna connected via a splitter to my Sony Satellite receiver and my new Sharp television set.

I always had thought that the Sony receiver did a great job with all the multipath problems that I have until I connected the Sharp. The TV's tuner locks on stations that the Sony can't. There's a huge difference - 4th Generation vs. 5th Generation chips.

All three of your components will give you different results. Your Pioneer, by way of the numbers you provided, seems to have some trouble with Channel 5.1. If the Pioneer locks on to and holds the signal, don't worry.

Rain and other weather phenomena can play havoc with UHF/Digital reception - it's part of the animal.

Be thankful that you get the numbers you do. I wish that I could receive Channel 13.1 over-the-air, my only method to get this channel is via cable.

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!

Enjoy what you've got.

i suppose... is there a device that could split my signal 3 ways and do it more efficiently? just to ensure my problems are with the splitters.

btw... i definitely realize i'm lucky to pull in 13.1,2,3. i just figured that since all the x-mitters are either on ESB or "the rock" (all very close) that the signals would be relatively the same. (especially 5.1 and 2.1 since they are both on ESB).

There are splitters, but you're not getting the same signal strength from three different components has to do with what I've already mentioned - different chips, circuitry!

"The Rock" originally was the location for WNBC-DT - the station now transmits from the ESB.

Although all the major stations transmit from the ESB, they all have different frequencies and power. There is no way to expect equal reception and strength just because they all emanate from the same location.

All but channels 5.1 and 5.2, of the stations you mentioned, use the Combiner -which in actuality is WCBS-DT's omnidirectional antenna. 5.1 and 5.2 use a separate antenna with a directional pattern.

Quick question about hd/digital signal via ATSC tuner OTA vs. analog signal via NTSC tuner OTA.

I remember a long time ago when we didn't have cable and watch tv with those rabbits ears antenna with analog signal OTA. Now we get all of the tv stations, some are better than others. For example, some stations is more blurry than others or double image etc.

Now with digital/HD signal OTA... do u also get the same experience just like the analog signal in term of blurryness, double image, etc. Or hd/digital signal is either hit or miss? Meaning if u get it it will be very good and if u don't...u won't get any picture what so ever? Someone please let me know...thx in advance.

Quick question about hd/digital signal via ATSC tuner OTA vs. analog signal via NTSC tuner OTA.

I remember a long time ago when we didn't have cable and watch tv with those rabbits ears antenna with analog signal OTA. Now we get all of the tv stations, some are better than others. For example, some stations is more blurry than others or double image etc.

Now with digital/HD signal OTA... do u also get the same experience just like the analog signal in term of blurryness, double image, etc. Or hd/digital signal is either hit or miss? Meaning if u get it it will be very good and if u don't...u won't get any picture what so ever? Someone please let me know...thx in advance.
There are basically three "stages".

You'll get good reception, in which case you'll get a perfect picture all the time.
You'll get borderline reception, in which case the picture and sound will cut in and out all the time, with lots of blockiness in the picture (a bit like a scratched-up DVD)...
Or you'll get bad reception in which case you'll get no picture whatsoever.

If you're stuck with borderline reception, it will quickly drive you nuts. Borderline digital reception is MUCH MUCH more annoying than even poor analog reception.

With digital, if you get the signal and your tuner can lock on to it and hold it - it will be "perfect!"

It's either there or it's not.

The only exception is a signal whose strength fluctuates - so you would have an on again, off again experience.

Once you've got a signal there's no such thing as ghosting or blurry pictures.

Wow. Thx for the info UnnDunn.

Now how many ppl have experience borderline reception vs perfect reception? Or is it more like half and half?

There are splitters, but you're not getting the same signal strength from three different components has to do with what I've already mentioned - different chips, circuitry!

"The Rock" originally was the location for WNBC-DT - the station now transmits from the ESB.

Although all the major stations transmit from the ESB, they all have different frequencies and power. There is no way to expect equal reception and strength just because they all emanate from the same location.

All but channels 5.1 and 5.2, of the stations you mentioned, use the Combiner -which in actuality is WCBS-DT's omnidirectional antenna. 5.1 and 5.2 use a separate antenna with a directional pattern.


ah. ok, i wasn't aware that WNBC was xmitting from ESB now. thanks for the info and suggestions!

I don't get WLIW's OTA feed but looking at the sub channels via my QAM cable feed it seems WLIW-DT has made changes to it's channel setup.
Now it is three SD channels instead of two.

21.2 is a digital version of WLIW-TV UHF Ch21. 22.3 is WLIW Create.
The addition is WNET's Thirteen World is now broadcasting on 21.4.

I wonder if this means Thirteen World will be taken off WNET-DT?

I was excited to come home with my brand new Silver Sensor today, and hooked it up to get...nothing. I then went on antennaweb.org and was very surprised to see that apparently I don't get any DTV stations? I'm on E88th between York and East End in a south facing apartment on the third floor of a 5 floor building. I should be able to get something...shouldn't I?

Forget what antennaweb.org says, the site is extremely conservative.

I live about a mile south, southwest of you and the site tells me the same thing -
no stations. In truth, I can receive nearly 20 with my Silver Sensor!

You have to be very patient with the Silver Sensor, it is extraordinarily directional and you must "walk" the antenna around your room, noting where you pick up reception for each individual station.

The third floor location is working against you, but you neveertheless should be getting some stations.

I don't get WLIW's OTA feed but looking at the sub channels via my QAM cable feed it seems WLIW-DT has made changes to it's channel setup.
Now it is three SD channels instead of two.

21.2 is a digital version of WLIW-TV UHF Ch21. 22.3 is WLIW Create.
The addition is WNET's Thirteen World is now broadcasting on 21.4.

I wonder if this means Thirteen World will be taken off WNET-DT?

13.3 now shows V-me TV (Spanish language shows). Some from the Food Network and others made by PBS. Also programming from Latin America and Spain.

Hi guys,

Are we finally going to get HD Yankee games on My 9 this season?

Hi guys,

Are we finally going to get HD Yankee games on My 9 this season?

Last year at the end we did get them in HD but no surround sound. Check the YES HD thread in HDTV Programming forum. As for what games are in HD on My9 you will have to check the schedule. Next time don't double post.

I really don't remember any games being in HD at the end. I remember some expectation that there would be but then they weren't. Maybe I missed a couple. Hopefully My 9 will make an announcement as The CW did for the Mets regarding HD.

The Yankees schedule online has the TV schedule on it but doesn't say HD. I don't even think there is a YES HD schedule out yet.

Sorry about the double post. When I submitted the post there was vbulletin message saying AVS was down for server maintenance. I must have pressed refresh some time after that.

I just bought a used samsung dtb-h260f, am in line of sight of the empire state building in Astoria, QNS and am getting no signal with a cheap UHF/VHF antenna. How's everyone else? Is the samsung DOA? Any tricks?

Same spot, same antenna, different receiver got me 8-10 channels on a clear day (but the receiver only outputted 480p, so I returned it).

can weather kill my signal, or is something else going on...

I just bought a used samsung dtb-h260f, am in line of sight of the empire state building in Astoria, QNS and am getting no signal with a cheap UHF/VHF antenna. How's everyone else? Is the samsung DOA? Any tricks?

Same spot, same antenna, different receiver got me 8-10 channels on a clear day (but the receiver only outputted 480p, so I returned it).

can weather kill my signal, or is something else going on...

Were you able to check manually to see if a signal was even registering on any of the channels? Check the signal strength indicator on the RF channels that stations broadcast their digital signals on. If nothing shows up than the unit is probably defective. If you do get something you might have to "play" with antenna position again to find a sweet spot.

I just bought a used samsung dtb-h260f, am in line of sight of the empire state building in Astoria, QNS and am getting no signal with a cheap UHF/VHF antenna. How's everyone else? Is the samsung DOA? Any tricks?

Same spot, same antenna, different receiver got me 8-10 channels on a clear day (but the receiver only outputted 480p, so I returned it).

can weather kill my signal, or is something else going on...

What antenna do you have? I used a Silver Sensor from Nassau County and got all the major channels. Where are you in Astoria? Are you near the Amtrak viaduct? Are you east of the N train?

I just bought a used samsung dtb-h260f, am in line of sight of the empire state building in Astoria, QNS and am getting no signal with a cheap UHF/VHF antenna. How's everyone else? Is the samsung DOA? Any tricks?

Same spot, same antenna, different receiver got me 8-10 channels on a clear day (but the receiver only outputted 480p, so I returned it).

can weather kill my signal, or is something else going on...

this maybe dumb question..did u go into the channel manager option and do a "auto scan" of the air? i got the dtb-h260f on on friday w/my indoor philip sensor antenna and i live on the upper east side facing the triborough bridge and i dont have any sight of the empire state building and still pick up all the hd channel like cbs hd, pbs hd etc. etc.

another option for u are if u have a cable box..to get a cable splitter and put one rf to ur cable box and the other rf to ur 260...it also works for me.

I really don't remember any games being in HD at the end. I remember some expectation that there would be but then they weren't.

There was at least one YES-HD game on My9 around 9.17.06. WWOR-DT had just switched to 720p then.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/269/nyy091706as1.th.jpg (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nyy091706as1.jpg)

I've had receptionproblems around Suffolk County too. intermittent

There was at least one YES-HD game on My9 around 9.17.06. WWOR-DT had just switched to 720p then.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/269/nyy091706as1.th.jpg (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nyy091706as1.jpg)
Thanks. So it was a simulcast then..not a true "My 9" game. Hopefully they will continue in that direction.

i suppose... is there a device that could split my signal 3 ways and do it more efficiently? just to ensure my problems are with the splitters.

btw... i definitely realize i'm lucky to pull in 13.1,2,3. i just figured that since all the x-mitters are either on ESB or "the rock" (all very close) that the signals would be relatively the same. (especially 5.1 and 2.1 since they are both on ESB).


I suspect your numbers vary just because different generations of chipsets BUT back to your splitter question.

Splitters literally split the signal in half. If you get x signal on the wire and then split it 2 ways for a pair of TV's you get 1/2 of X at each TV. A 3 way splitter cuts the signal in half and then cuts one of those legs in half again. So one leg has half of x, and legs 2 and 3 have 1/4 of the original X. (all the legs on a 4 way splitter would have 1/4 the signal)

So you might try futzing around with which component is hooked to which leg of your splitter. it's POSSIBLE (but no given) that the newer devices might handle the 1/4 signal better then the oldest device. Who knows maybe the "lowest" tuner is getting too much signal- there's a ton of illogical variable with atsc reception....

Signal strength is measures in decibels (dB) which is logarithmic- so it's not as bad as it sounds. If you have 20 decibels and split in in half you don't divide by 2, you actually subtract 3. So half of 20 decibels would be 17. Half of 17 would be 14. Half of 14 would be 11. etc etc. There's also some loss from the components so real world they tend to describe a splitter as a 3.5 dB loss. (or 7dB on double split legs in a 3 way splitter).

The first Ch9 game is April 17 Indians at Yankees.
I would expect it, as last year was, to be produced by YES for Ch9.

In the promo for the game at the bottom it says "in HD only on iO digital cable".
Of couse that makes no sense since every NYC area cable system carries WWOR-DT and you can watch the OTA feed.
I still don't know why they use the "in HD only on iO" graphic since WWOR is not exclusive to Cablevision.

http://www.my9ny.com/whatson/yankees/index.html

Time Warner Cable in Manhattan, for some strange reason, does not carry WWOR-DT!

Time Warner Cable in Manhattan, for some strange reason, does not carry WWOR-DT!


I've just read that Time Warner Cable of New York City and New Jersey will begin carrying WWOR-DT. No start date was mentioned in the information I received.

Comcast here in Central Jersey does not carry WWOR.

patriot media has every NY Station except wwor-dt.

I don't understand how it is that so many cable companies dont carry it- since fox owns it you would think it would have been in a package deal with channel 5?

Anyway- I'm out in flemington so NY Locals are tough for me- how does channel 9 rate in power/ease at this point in time compared to the others? I just noticed I can get channel 7 off the BACK side of my 4228 aimed at philly. So I'm wondering if I can use a silver sensor or another 4228 to get channel 9. Any words of wisdom.

I've just read that Time Warner Cable of New York City and New Jersey will begin carrying WWOR-DT. No start date was mentioned in the information I received. Tomorrow 3/29 :cool:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/programming/channelchanges.html

For anyone interested, coverage maps for the local transmitters have been posted in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10127219&&#post10127219).

Best regards,
Andy

Tomorrow 3/29 :cool:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/programming/channelchanges.html

Any1 here in Manhattan that is able to pick up WWOR HD since 3/29/07 with their tv QAM or standalone QAM tuner instead of a time Warner digital box?

No, just tried and WWOR-DT, 1.9 is not coming in!

My Olevia 747i's ATSC tuner picks WWOR-DT as 5.2, right behind Fox's 5.1 DT signal.

The question has nothing to do with an ATSC tuner, it pertains to a television set's QAM
tuner which allows unencrypted digital cable channels, including HD to be viewed.

Beyond that, channel 5.2 although digital is in SD.

WWOR-DT (9.1) is coming in fine for me.

WWOR-DT (9.1) is coming in fine for me.

with a twc digital cable box or ur own built hdtv qam tuner?

My Olevia 747i's ATSC tuner picks WWOR-DT as 5.2, right behind Fox's 5.1 DT signal.


i did a scan on thurs 3/29/07 on my samsung hdtv tuner..i still cant pick up wwor-dt channel. i can pick up cbs hd, nbc hd, fox hd, abc hd, wpix hd and pbs hd.

should i try to rescan again?

I heard Sateliete offers the best HD picture quality? Is this true, and is it actually noticeable in practice? How about Verizon Fios?

A stable over-the-air signal has the least, if any compression - that's the best.

What I've read and heard is that FiOS should provide excellent quality - better than cable or satellite.

is it a very noticeable improvement or something suble, and does fios offer 1080p broadcasts?

There's no such thing as 1080p broadcasts.

As of now, only High Definition discs will provide 1080p!

I heard Sateliete offers the best HD picture quality? Is this true, and is it actually noticeable in practice? How about Verizon Fios?


I have Dish but not HD. I get all my HDTV via Sony-DHG-HD250 or Samsung DTBH260F. The BEST video comes from WCBS or WNBC followed closely by WPIX (all 1080i). FIOS I've HEARD is very good but.....it's not free. I say wait till Feb 2009 and see what the landscape looks like when ALL analog goes away and digital must be defacto standard

with a twc digital cable box or ur own built hdtv qam tuner?

OTA... i just reread your posts and realize you guys were talking about QAM.

so any once again..any1 here able to pick up wwor hd channel with their tv qam tuner using their cable signal instead of ota?

ANY1??????????????????????????????

Not yet!

Well I guess since Verizon Fios has WWOR-DT that tag line "on on iO" on the WOR promos is still wrong.
I wonder why Verizon was able to get WWOR-DT but TimeWarner does not already?

Also instead of WLNY, WWOR will be broadcasting some Nets games when there is a conflict with the Yankees on YES this month.

Each distributor must negotiate with each television station in order to carry the station's signal.

Just because Verizon was able to cut a deal doesn't mean that there are the same terms and conditions for each distributor.

so any once again..any1 here able to pick up wwor hd channel with their tv qam tuner using their cable signal instead of ota?

ANY1??????????????????????????????

Was there perfectly fine on my QAM tuner and I did a rescan yesterday.

EDIT: just read over the original question. I'm in a CV area. Maybe TWC is taking 5.2 off WNYW-DT instead of 9.1 off WWOR-DT.

Was there perfectly fine on my QAM tuner and I did a rescan yesterday.

EDIT: just read over the original question. I'm in a CV area. Maybe TWC is taking 5.2 off WNYW-DT instead of 9.1 off WWOR-DT.

nope..i just posted this on twc thread and no one is able to pick up wwor hd...they said twc is broadcasting only sd signal.

btw where is CV?

nope..i just posted this on twc thread and no one is able to pick up wwor hd...they said twc is broadcasting only sd signal.

btw where is CV?

CV= Cablevision

Something I've noticed, maybe someone has an answer. Is Fox 5 the only station that is committed to providing a solid OTA signal. I use a indoor antennas, along with my Cablevision, for reception and I'm in Southern Westchester. On analog it is the best quality VHF channel, and on digital it is consistently the strongest channel, even at the fringes of the NY DMA. I go to Eastern Fairfield county often and know that it is the strongest of the NY signals there.

The other stations are usually good but have dropouts every so often, Fox 5 rarely has any. I'd have to say NBC 4 is the most inconsistent, followed by CW 11, I can't receive digital 13. I know that some of the stations are not going to do any upgrades to equipment until the Freedom Tower is completed and they can move in, but is that the only reason they don't seem to dedicate any effort to a quality signal like channel 5 or is there something else?

Concerning digital reception, so much has to do with a combination/combinations of a digital station's channel allocation (its frequency), its power, its transmitting antenna's location/height, the weather (temperature, humidity) and of course, the viewer's location.

WNYW-DT is the metropolitan area's most powerful station - 990kW using its own antenna on the Empire State Building - transmitting on channel 44.

On the other side of things, WNET-DT - transmits from the Combiner on the Empire State,
using the highest channel in the area - channel 61 and has the lowest power - 12.4kw.

There will be some changes before a move to the Freedom Tower.

To coincide with the February 2009 turn-off of analog transmission, in the New York market, there will be a reshuffling of some our digital channels' frequencies.

WCBS-DT From Channel 56 To Channel 33
WABC-DT From Channel 45 to Channel 7
WPIX-DT From Channel 33 to Channel 11
WNET-DT From Channel 61 to Channel 13

I haven't heard anything about a change in power for any of those stations. The wish is that WNET-DT, specifically, will have a more powerful signal.

Who knows how those changes will affect reception.

Hope this helps a bit.

WNET-DT (PBS) on UHF channel 61? How far is that from WTIC-TV (FOX) channel 61 of Hartford? WTIC-TV analog has a signal of 5 million watts visual (ERP) from Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT (a few miles to the west-southwest). Likewise, WTIC-DT uses channel 31 from the same site. How far is that from the Empire State Building and the analog signal of WPXN-TV (ION)?

Concerning digital reception, so much has to do with a combination/combinations of a digital station's channel allocation (its frequency), its power, its transmitting antenna's location/height, the weather (temperature, humidity) and of course, the viewer's location.If you’ve yet to stumble across this thread, check it out, you folks might find it interesting. :cool: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480&page=1&pp=30

There will be some changes before a move to the Freedom Tower.

so are all the nyc dma transmitters (for all the stations that are current on ESB) moving to the freedom tower? if not, thats going to stink for me b/c ESB is NE of me and freedom tower is south.

To coincide with the February 2009 turn-off of analog transmission, in the New York market, there will be a reshuffling of some our digital channels' frequencies.

WCBS-DT From Channel 56 To Channel 33
WABC-DT From Channel 45 to Channel 7
WPIX-DT From Channel 33 to Channel 11
WNET-DT From Channel 61 to Channel 13

I haven't heard anything about a change in power for any of those stations. The wish is that WNET-DT, specifically, will have a more powerful signal.

wait... i thought they were phasing out the old channels and just letting them leave the remapping in place so people still see the "traditional" channel numbers. are they just letting them use the current "digital" channel for HDTV until they have to turn off the analog broadcast? thats going to be a PITA for people like me who have 20-30 season passes on my DVR based on the current digital channels.

Remapping is expected to take place with the changes.

For example, when WCBS-DT begins transmitting on Channel 33, your television set should continue to call it Channel 2.1.

Yes, it has all the potential for some major problems.

The stations have time to get things straight, let's hope they use the time wisely.

Remapping is expected to take place with the changes.

For example, when WCBS-DT begins transmitting on Channel 33, your television set should continue to call it Channel 2.1.

Yes, it has all the potential for some major problems.

The stations have time to get things straight, let's hope they use the time wisely.

Any idea if the CT stations will realign as well? There's currently a staion on 33 in CT that tends to interfere with my reception of the CW out of NY. You'd think they'd space the channels out a little more considering how close the DMAs are.

so any once again..any1 here able to pick up wwor hd channel with their tv qam tuner using their cable signal instead of ota?

ANY1??????????????????????????????

Last night, on Time Warner Cable, I found the following QAM Channels:

93.1 - WWOR-DT

93.2 - TNT-HD

Who knows how long they will remain on those channels the way cable companies reconfigure QAMs?

Thought you all would be interested!

Any idea if the CT stations will realign as well? There's currently a staion on 33 in CT that tends to interfere with my reception of the CW out of NY. You'd think they'd space the channels out a little more considering how close the DMAs are.

Don't know the specifics for markets other than the New York DMA.

But - if you have the patience, look at the first "Sticky" under
"Local HDTV Info and Reception."

Here, you'll be able to wade through info about new FCC channel allocations
throughout the U.S.

Remapping is expected to take place with the changes.

For example, when WCBS-DT begins transmitting on Channel 33, your television set should continue to call it Channel 2.1.

Yes, it has all the potential for some major problems.

The stations have time to get things straight, let's hope they use the time wisely.


this could be a disaster.... i have two HR20s from Directv which rely on the guide data for the channel mapping (no ability to scan for OTA channels).... so if D* isn't on the ball and remaps these i will be screwed.

as for freedom tower, do you know if all the transmitters (the ones currently on ESB) are getting moved or just some?

At this point, the alliance of stations is at least talking about all.

Who knows what will occur over time.

Wonder if anyone has the email address for the VP of engineering at WABC. This is kind of off topic but I am trying to get in touch with someone that can fix Pixelation problems on their Directv Sat feed.

Wonder if anyone has the email address for the VP of engineering at WABC. This is kind of off topic but I am trying to get in touch with someone that can fix Pixelation problems on their Directv Sat feed.

While WABC would be interested in the denigration of its signal, the place to complain is DirecTV.

Not positive of this, but I believe that DirecTV picks up local digital signals over-the-air. So, it really is up to DirecTV!

While WABC would be interested in the denigration of its signal, the place to complain is DirecTV.

Not positive of this, but I believe that DirecTV picks up local digital signals over-the-air. So, it really is up to DirecTV!

Your right and your wrong. I went through this with Fox 5 out of NY and they seem to have it fixed now. The station has much more to lose if their program is not watched than Direvtv does. This makes it a higher priority for the station to go after Directv and get things fixed faster. This problem is some kind of software and hardware upgrade they need to do so that the signal from WABC to Directv is clean.

Been there done that. That is why I know I need to talk to someone at WABC engineering. Prefer the VP of engineering. Can't seem to find any email to get in touch with them. In fact one email bounced back as undeliverable.

Found what I was looking for. If anyone needs it here it is. william.kirkpatrick@abc.com Good for WABC out of NY Channel 7. Maybe someone will need it for OTA help.

CBS 2 News in in HD now, go wild.

CBS 2 News in in HD now, go wild.

I saw that last night. This upgrade seems to have slipped under the radar, at least for me. I didn't see any big hype about this. I guess maybe that is because the local NBC and CBS beat them to the punch by quite a bit.

WABC / DirecTV still seem to be having HD issues. Both were transmitting the SD version of Boston Legal.

WABC / DirecTV still seem to be having HD issues. Both were transmitting the SD version of Boston Legal.


yeah.. i just watched on (had it on the DVR). the guide info had it listed as HD.

Just confirming Yankees in HD on WWOR-DT.
Graphics look SD, the PQ looks nice.

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/6743/snapshot200704170000lr9.th.jpg (http://img469.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot200704170000lr9.jpg)http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4372/snapshot20070417tg1.th.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20070417tg1.jpg)

good pics..and Cheers to My 9!! The game looked great!

The other good news is WWOR-DT is able to time shift HD programming.
The My Network shows that did not air due to baseball are on at 11pm and 12am in HD.

I thought last night's Yankees broadcast on My9 (OTA) was very good, but not quite up to the PQ standards of YES.

Is anyone else hearing the static burst/pops during the MY 9 HD game tonight?

Any one else notice that the usually HD ugly Betty is currently in SD.

Weird the show is in HD now after the commercial break.

Is anyone else hearing the static burst/pops during the MY 9 HD game tonight?

I've been switching back and forth between channels 7 & 9, and have heard the bursting popping on both channels a couple of times so far.

Anyone know how successful I will be picking up the major networks with rabbit ears? I less than one mile from the ESB. Don't really want to invest in anything expensive just yet, just want to play with unfettered HD.

There are so many variables, there is no way to predict how your reception will be.

Rabbit ears can be considered basically for VHF reception (Channels 2-13).

If you are talking about digital reception, which is UHF, you very well may have problems with rabbit ears. If you need a relatively inexpensive, indoor UHF antenna, I recommend
the Silver Sensor. Circuit City sells it made by Philips for about $25.

I use an indoor antenna from Radio Shack and I receive 22 channels.

....WNYW-DT is the metropolitan area's most powerful station - 990kW using its own antenna on the Empire State Building - transmitting on channel 44....
Not sure that's accurate. I'm out in NJ a bit south of the intersection of Interstates 78 & 287 (near the Bridgewater Mall) and getting my OTA reception out of Philly because I'm partially blocked from NYC stations by the local terrain. The only NYC digital station I've been able to lock in so far is WXTV 41.1 (RF 40). It's at just barely watchable strength -- I do get picture but tons of dropouts because it's just on the edge of solid reception. It's @ 84 on my Voom OTA receiver and I need a steady 85 or better for trouble-free reception. Now, from this link -

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/programming/broadcast-market.php?dma_name%5B%5D=New%20York

it's transmitting @ 300KW and 422m height from the Empire State Building. Click on the red balloons to get the station's information. Clicking on the red balloons on the left side of the page will center the map on that station's antenna location.

If you click on the 2nd red balloon for WNYW-DT 5.1, you'll see that there is indeed a construction permit modification for 990 KW and 365 m height. This is at the left side of the page. But the first red balloon for WNYW-DT 5.1 shows its currently licenced information, which is 246 KW & 363 m height.

I am unable to lock in WNYW-DT 5.1 at this time. I'm assuming this is because its power is just under what WXTV 41.1 is currently putting out and also because its height is a bit less. Since I CAN lock in WXTV 41.1 @ 300KW and 422m height (from the Empire State Building), I have to assume that I'd be able to lock in WNYW-DT 5.1 (from the Empire State Building) if it was currently putting out 990 KW. That's more than three times the power of WXTV 41.1, and I'm quite sure I'd be locking it in (and watching it with no problem) if it was at that power level.

As an example, I have also locked in (and can watch with no problem) WMBC, which is @ 1000 KW power but only 193 m height. AND, its antenna is farther away (up by Little Falls). I get that at a signal strength of 90 on my Voom box, which is strong enough to overcome any weather or atmospheric problems.

It looks to me like WXTV 41.1 is the only station actually situated in NYC which is putting out sufficient power to be received by me, even tho' I'm only ~35 miles away. That's why I'm currently watching the Philly stations, even tho' I'm ~50 miles away from their towers, because all of their stations are transmitting at significantly higher power levels. You can add the Philadelphia market to that map link above and check it out for yourself.

Now, I acknowledge that I do have a bit of a terrain problem with NYC stations (that I don't have with the Philly stations) but since I am getting WXTV 41.1 @ 300 KW, I can't imagine why I wouldn't be also getting WNYW-DT 5.1 if it were indeed transmitting at 990 KW, especially since their antennas are at the same exact location.

Bottom line is that I don't think WNYW-DT 5.1 is yet at 990 KW. I think it has to still be at 246 KW.

I certainly HOPE that's the case. Because if I can't get WNYW-DT 5.1 at 990 KW, I'm going to be depressed.

What I'm really interested in getting right now is WWOR-DT 9.1 (MY9) for the Yankee games. I can't quite lock it in. It's apparently currently at 170 KW and 395 m height, again at the Empire State Building, but has a construction permit for 455 m height at (I guess) the Freedom Tower site. The bad news there is that the construction permit also lists the power lower at 143 KW, so I don't know if I'll be able to pull it in at that lower power even tho' the height will be better. Hopefully, they will put out more power than that.

I welcome any input from folks near my location as to their results in getting NYC digital OTA.

Your information is out of date.

What I provided, although listed is some places as a Construction Permit, is the true and current power. This comes from a Fox executive engineer.

Trying to compare stations - their power, their channel allocation will drive you crazy. To non-engineersm it make no sense and it's really an exercise in futility.

Your information is out of date.

What I provided, although listed is some places as a Construction Permit, is the true and current power. This comes from a Fox executive engineer.

Trying to compare stations - their power, their channel allocation will drive you crazy. To non-engineersm it make no sense and it's really an exercise in futility.
If your information is indeed correct, perhaps you could explain to this non-engineer the disparity I listed in my last post.

I should also correct that post to add that I have also locked in WABC-DT 7.1 at a strength of 84. It is listed on the HDTV link as transmitting at 182.4 KW and 455 m height. That's substantially lower power than the 990 KWs you say WNYW-DT 5.1 is currently putting out.

So perhaps you could explain why I'm not getting WNYW-DT 5.1 if it's indeed transmitting at that power?

I'm not saying you weren't told what you claim by some engineer there, I'm just saying that my results aren't at all consistent with that claim. I've had some experience with false or inaccurate claims by station engineers -- for whatever reason.

Perhaps you misunderstood what he was trying to tell you?

But I'll hear your explanation as to why I'm getting WXTV-DT and not getting WNYW-DT.

Both transmitting from the same location and essentially the same height, but with the latter at more than 3 times the power of the former.

And note that the RFs aren't very different (40 vs. 44).

I give up!

I can't explain the unexplainable.

I don't misunderstand your questions.

And my information is correct.

Goodbye!

I give up!

I can't explain the unexplainable.

I don't misunderstand your questions.

And my information is correct.

Goodbye!
Sheesh! You really need to take a chill pill, dude. First you jump all over me with some comment about "non-engineers" as if you ARE an engineer and DO understand all this stuff that we poor "non-engineers" can't comprehend, and then you don't 'splain nothing when asked. I think you don't know as much as you'd like people to think you do. If you did, you'd offer some explanation. Saying "I can't explain the unexplainable" isn't much of an explanation.

Sorry to impose on your little fiefdom here. Looks to me like you're more than a little upset that I questioned your information. Call me crazy, but I thought this forum was for an exchange of information, not for "showing off."

Chill OUT! This isn't High School ya know.

Updating my situation, I am now in email communication with an engineer at WNYW-DT 5.1 who tells me that they are indeed broadcasting at 990 KW and have been doing so for about a year. But he hasn't as yet offered any explanation as to my discrepancy other than to suggest that perhaps I'm getting TOO MUCH signal, which I seriously doubt.

If your information is indeed correct, perhaps you could explain to this non-engineer the disparity I listed in my last post.

I should also correct that post to add that I have also locked in WABC-DT 7.1 at a strength of 84. It is listed on the HDTV link as transmitting at 182.4 KW and 455 m height. That's substantially lower power than the 990 KWs you say WNYW-DT 5.1 is currently putting out.

So perhaps you could explain why I'm not getting WNYW-DT 5.1 if it's indeed transmitting at that power?

I'm not saying you weren't told what you claim by some engineer there, I'm just saying that my results aren't at all consistent with that claim. I've had some experience with false or inaccurate claims by station engineers -- for whatever reason.

Perhaps you misunderstood what he was trying to tell you?

But I'll hear your explanation as to why I'm getting WXTV-DT and not getting WNYW-DT.

Both transmitting from the same location and essentially the same height, but with the latter at more than 3 times the power of the former.

And note that the RFs aren't very different (40 vs. 44).

Every receiving location is a unique situation with multiple variables such as path lengths for direct and bounce signals, and wavelength of transmitted signals, and frequency response of receiving antenna and downlead. What you have is basically a big mathematics/geometry/calculus problem. Also know to cause problems is too much signal which "overloads" receiver circuits. What you describe is not surprising. The list of possible solutions is endless, but some likely things to try are an attenuator to reduce signal from receiving antenna, move the receiving antenna around and probe for a sweet spot, try two different antennas (one high gain and one low gain) in two different locations and maybe switch between. Anybody else have other suggestions??

Every receiving location is a unique situation with multiple variables such as path lengths for direct and bounce signals, and wavelength of transmitted signals, and frequency response of receiving antenna and downlead. What you have is basically a big mathematics/geometry/calculus problem. Also know to cause problems is too much signal which "overloads" receiver circuits. What you describe is not surprising. The list of possible solutions is endless, but some likely things to try are an attenuator to reduce signal from receiving antenna, move the receiving antenna around and probe for a sweet spot, try two different antennas (one high gain and one low gain) in two different locations and maybe switch between. Anybody else have other suggestions??
Thanks for the suggestions. I think the Fox engineer I'm emailing with is suggesting an attenuator -- he actually lives not all that far from me and he says he gets both NYC and Philly OTA digital and has both an attenuator and a pre-amp. Here's what he said to me -

I do run with a pre-amp and an adjustable attenuator. Sometimes, I should say many times I have way too much signal and that only hurts the system. The older receivers are not too adept at handling multipath and the increase in multiple signals with higher signal levels (like when you use a pre-amp or good antenna) causes the signal to cancel out and appear weak or not present. The newer receivers (Referred to GEN-5) are great

Now, although he lives not far from me, he is actually on top of the "ridge" that is partially blocking me from NYC, while I'm very near the bottom of that ridge -- too near the bottom of it, I fear. But as I said, I am getting 2 other NYC stations and a 3rd station broadcasting out of Little Falls (same general direction).

In a subsequent email he said -

If you want to “play” around get a new USB RX that is of the GEN 4/5 flavor (they are not all that expensive) and plug your antenna into the PC USB RX and I bet you’ll see better reception.

I'm not sure what he's talking about there. Perhaps you are?

Anyway, I HAVE played around with the positioning of my antenna, to no avail. I've also tried a smaller antenna that I have, also to no avail. I doubt the problem is too much signal, but maybe it is. Although I don't have an attenuator, I do have some coax that seems to seriously cut back on signal strength, so maybe I could try putting that in line with my antenna connection and see what happens (?).

It if IS too much signal, I think I could live with THAT! :)

I am getting ALL the Philly digital stations except for WHYY which is broadcasting at low power in my direction. I have a clear path to the Philly towers. I'm also getting WNJT which has its antenna nearer Princeton than Trenton (thus not very far from me) and which I now see is at a pretty weak 46 KW and not much HAAT (282m). It's my strongest station at 99%, which does tend to support the "too much signal" theory, I guess. Then again, I also get WKYW at 99% and that's at 770 KW and 366m HAAT. Of course, it's in the Roxborough antenna farm (suburb of Philly) and thus considerably farther from me than the WNJT antenna.

I also get WLVT in Bethlehem, which is at 47.7 KW and 162m HAAT. Also WFMZ out of the same area which is at 400 KW & 199m HAAT.

:confused:

In a subsequent email he said -

If you want to “play” around get a new USB RX that is of the GEN 4/5 flavor (they are not all that expensive) and plug your antenna into the PC USB RX and I bet you’ll see better reception.

I'm not sure what he's talking about there. Perhaps you are?



:confused:


He's referring to a variety of new tuners that you can plug into your computer using a USB 2.0 connection. Most if not all have the latest 5th generation reception chip from LG. Also I think I read, but not sure, that some of them have attenuation capability to handle overly strong signals. Some of the brands I've seen more frequently are OnAir USB HDTV, DVICO Fusion USB and several others. They are also available as a PCI card if that's better for you. If you do a web search you'll be able to find out more.

anyone know if any of the locals broadcast HD test patterns that i can record for calibration?

He's referring to a variety of new tuners that you can plug into your computer using a USB 2.0 connection. Most if not all have the latest 5th generation reception chip from LG. Also I think I read, but not sure, that some of them have attenuation capability to handle overly strong signals. Some of the brands I've seen more frequently are OnAir USB HDTV, DVICO Fusion USB and several others. They are also available as a PCI card if that's better for you. If you do a web search you'll be able to find out more.
Thanks much. I think I'm getting the sense of what he's telling me now. He seems to think that I have a Gen 2 or 3 receiver (the Voom box), which is probably true, and that if I had a Gen 4 or 5 receiver, I'd be much better off and probably able to get his station (resolve the problem, which he thinks is too much signal). Here's the full version of what he said to me -

The Voom boxes are probably Gen-2 or 3 boxes. You would not believe how much better a Gen-5 is. If you want to “play” around get a new USB RX that is of the GEN 4/5 flavor (they are not all that expensive) and plug your antenna into the PC USB RX and I bet you’ll see better reception. LG and Samsung are not making many stand alone boxes any more but they do have some that you can find on the internet if you are interested in a stand alone.

Now, from what he said and what you said, I take it that he's saying that Gen 4 or 5 stand alone boxes aren't very much available anymore, and so he's now suggesting that a (cheaper and more available?) alternative would be this new variety of tuner that you plug into the computer, yada yada yada.

Is that about what you think he's saying to me?

I'm really not interested in getting my computer involved here. I'd prefer to stick with the stand alone tuner and my TV. From a recent discussion on the Philly OTA thread, one member is currently trying to get a new stand alone tuner (to replace his current one) and isn't having much luck getting something suitable. My take on all this is that there aren't a lot of Gen 4 or 5 stand alone tuners out there now, and perhaps this is because all TVs being currently manufactured must have built-in digital tuners? Thus companies are moving away from the manufacture of stand alone tuners? Also, I get the idea that what IS out there are generally tuner/recorder combos (TiVo), which doesn't interest me (and which are relatively expensive)?

That's just my common sense take on it -- I certainly could be wrong.

Anybody have a take on all this?

I'm still having trouble wrapping my brain around the idea that I'm getting too much signal and that's why I can't get 5.1 reception. I certainly didn't have any problem at all getting the Philly stations, and, as I've said, I do get WMBC with no problem, and it's putting out 1000kW.

I did read back a few pages and note that Gary said this @ post #6408 (p. 214) -

All but channels 5.1 and 5.2, of the stations you mentioned, use the Combiner -which in actuality is WCBS-DT's omnidirectional antenna. 5.1 and 5.2 use a separate antenna with a directional pattern.

So if 5.1 is using a directional antenna, that could mean (COULD mean) that their power is somewhat irrelevant to me if they aren't putting much of that power out in my direction.

Just a thought. Probably not the case since my engineer email buddy lives not far from me, and he's getting it.

Now, here's a question: Is there some sort of gizmo that will measure pure and actual signal strength without getting messed up by "too much signal"? Maybe that's the kind of thing this engineer is suggesting I try with this USB RX thing?

The Voom box does have an "aim the antenna" function whereby you simply enter the RF number you're after and it gives you the signal strength it's reading for that RF.

Would that function also be affected by "too much signal"? It's only looking at one RF when in this mode.

I'm really not interested in getting my computer involved here. I'd prefer to stick with the stand alone tuner and my TV. From a recent discussion on the Philly OTA thread, one member is currently trying to get a new stand alone tuner (to replace his current one) and isn't having much luck getting something suitable. My take on all this is that there aren't a lot of Gen 4 or 5 stand alone tuners out there now, and perhaps this is because all TVs being currently manufactured must have built-in digital tuners? Thus companies are moving away from the manufacture of stand alone tuners? Also, I get the idea that what IS out there are generally tuner/recorder combos (TiVo), which doesn't interest me (and which are relatively expensive)?
The sunset of analog will create a vast multitude of useless legacy receivers, and their owners will clamor for DTV set top boxes to continue using them, so surely some enterprising company(ies) will eventually step forward to produce the desired product.

LG and Samsung are not making many stand alone boxes any more but they do have some that you can find on the internet if you are interested in a stand alone.[/COLOR]



Your instincts are right in that there are not too many stand alone tuner boxes currently being produced. Right now the most advanced stand alone is Samsung's DTB-H260F HDTV tuner. It contains Samsung's 5th generation chip and deals with the issues you believe are affecting your reception. The link to the page is Samsung DTB-H260f HD Tuner (http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalSetTopBox/HDTVTuners/DTB_H260FXAA.asp) .

If you're not in a real hurry you can get LG's new 6th generation tuner coming early next year. They will have a version that qualifies for the digital conversion subsidy program, meaning it will be inexpensive. That should help with your reception, otherwise you'll just have to wait for the NY stations to move and upgrade their equipment when the Freedom Tower is completed.

The sunset of analog will create a vast multitude of useless legacy receivers, and their owners will clamor for DTV set top boxes to continue using them, so surely some enterprising company(ies) will eventually step forward to produce the desired product.
Your instincts are right in that there are not too many stand alone tuner boxes currently being produced. Right now the most advanced stand alone is Samsung's DTB-H260F HDTV tuner. It contains Samsung's 5th generation chip and deals with the issues you believe are affecting your reception. The link to the page is Samsung DTB-H260f HD Tuner (http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalSetTopBox/HDTVTuners/DTB_H260FXAA.asp) .

If you're not in a real hurry you can get LG's new 6th generation tuner coming early next year. They will have a version that qualifies for the digital conversion subsidy program, meaning it will be inexpensive. That should help with your reception, otherwise you'll just have to wait for the NY stations to move and upgrade their equipment when the Freedom Tower is completed.
Thanks for the feedback and good info, guys. Looks like the DTB-H260F can be had right now for $179.99, which isn't bad at all. It says it "easily tunes and decodes all 18 ATSC Table 3 broadcast formats." Sheesh. No wonder this stuff is so complicated.

I'm guessing that one of the "18 ATSC Table 3 broadcast formats" is the problem I'm having with the Bethlehem PBS station, WLVT.

As far as waiting for the NY stations to move and upgrade their equipment when the Freedom Tower is completed, I don't know how that's going to help me with my "too much signal" problem I seem to have with 5.1. When I get a chance, I'll try attenuating that signal a bit and see if that makes any difference.

Thanks again for all the help.

I'm back after 3 years absent here ;)
Last time I posted on this thread, I got a Zenith HD520 receiver connected to a CM 4288 antenna. I haven't touched those in years till yesterday.
Reconnected those and was able to get CBS, WB, Fox, PBS

Couldn't get NBC. ABC is really weak..


Anyone can give me a quick update on where the stations are now ? I pointed them to Empire State building 3 years ago and was able to get all the channels.

Many thanks...

It will take me a month to read through 210+ pages here. Last I posted, I was on page 23..lol....