New York, NY - OTA [Text View] - Page 28

adm

01-15-08, 10:56 AM

I'm getting a bit confused.

Are we talking about O-T-A (Over-the-Air) reception or using Cablevision?

If you are trying to receive WNET-DT in HD, 13.1, it is very difficult for many to receive.
It transmits on UHF channel 61, the highest allocation in the market, and has the lowest power.

If we are talking about using Cablevision, you should have no problem finding 13.1 on your cable box. It should be found on channel 713.

It is probably me and mostly, I am a bit confused.
I was under the impression that you can get the OTA HD stations that are on the lower end of the Cablevision feed (ie 2-->13 & 21 WLIW) via their cable line to the house. I do NOT have the OPTONLINE premium that would provide the >700+ number channels.

However, I have been able (via my Panny 50px600u using its QAM tuner) to pick up additional stations (most are HD, some are not) that are on the feed that are not listed in cables guide, nor are they on my Panny TVguide since that takes its feed directly through the Coax [no stb] (2.1 CBSHD, 4.1 NBC HD, 4.2/4.4 NBC, 5.1, 7.1 13.1-3, 21.1-3) All are HD.

The thing is that I do get 13 PBS (SD), 13.1 HD, 13.2 E/I (HD). However, the 13.1 is NOT the same programing as the one appearing on the 13. That was the reason for my original query as a follow up thankyou for your posting.

If you or anyone can tell me of another location below the 700 level where this would work great. Much abliged for the attempt.

Thanks.
..Mark

hphase

01-15-08, 11:14 AM

Just a reminder that WNYE's transmitter is now on the Empire State Building. It was down yesterday. The signal went from 39% with dropouts to 100%. However, its PAT is not working, so you'll have to manually add the PIDs.
That was a surprise. I did a scan today and it popped up. Even though I'm in Manhattan, I never got even a whiff of their signal before. Not that there's much on there to watch...

jaypb

01-15-08, 12:11 PM

That was a surprise. I did a scan today and it popped up. Even though I'm in Manhattan, I never got even a whiff of their signal before. Not that there's much on there to watch...

C'mon....the traffic camera channel (25-2?) rocks......static and all.....,:cool:

I can't be the only one getting static on the audio track can I be...?

SnellKrell

01-15-08, 04:39 PM

It is probably me and mostly, I am a bit confused.
I was under the impression that you can get the OTA HD stations that are on the lower end of the Cablevision feed (ie 2-->13 & 21 WLIW) via their cable line to the house. I do NOT have the OPTONLINE premium that would provide the >700+ number channels.

However, I have been able (via my Panny 50px600u using its QAM tuner) to pick up additional stations (most are HD, some are not) that are on the feed that are not listed in cables guide, nor are they on my Panny TVguide since that takes its feed directly through the Coax [no stb] (2.1 CBSHD, 4.1 NBC HD, 4.2/4.4 NBC, 5.1, 7.1 13.1-3, 21.1-3) All are HD.

The thing is that I do get 13 PBS (SD), 13.1 HD, 13.2 E/I (HD). However, the 13.1 is NOT the same programing as the one appearing on the 13. That was the reason for my original query as a follow up thankyou for your posting.

If you or anyone can tell me of another location below the 700 level where this would work great. Much abliged for the attempt.

Thanks.
..Mark

Concerning channel 13 (SD) and channel 13.1 (HD), the feed for 13.1 in HD is in actuality PBS's national High Definition feed, rebranded by WNET.

It is not the same as watching WNBC-DT and expecting it to be a simulcast of WNBC (SD).

adm

01-15-08, 04:44 PM

Concerning channel 13 (SD) and channel 13.1 (HD), the feed for 13.1 in HD is in actuality PBS's national High Definition feed, rebranded by WNET.

It is not the same as watching WNBC-DT and expecting it to be a simulcast of WNBC (SD).

Thanks for the clarification. I was trying to figure out why it was not the simulcast of the SD(on 13) in HD (when it was 13.1).

Appreciate it.
..Mark

tryin2search

01-18-08, 12:06 AM

That was a surprise. I did a scan today and it popped up. Even though I'm in Manhattan, I never got even a whiff of their signal before. Not that there's much on there to watch...

When I saw that it was available here out of curiousity I added it manually and was surprised at how strong the signal is. I am surprised that they stretch the picture to 16:9. At first I thought I had accidentally hit the aspect ratio button on my remote, but no. One question is, what is the point of the channel?

O2C

01-18-08, 02:27 PM

When I saw that it was available here out of curiousity I added it manually and was surprised at how strong the signal is. I am surprised that they stretch the picture to 16:9. At first I thought I had accidentally hit the aspect ratio button on my remote, but no. One question is, what is the point of the channel?
The channel actually does have a couple shows I've enjoyed watching. The aspect ratio problem is a huge turn off for me though. I sent them an e-mail complaining about it before. Maybe if more people did the same they might fix things. Probably not though.

seamus21514

01-18-08, 04:11 PM

The ratio is off on 25...looks like crap.

bigevan23

01-19-08, 07:35 PM

From the East Village I was able to pull in all the major networks & WNET using a Samsung DTB-H260F STB receiver combined with a Philips PHDTV1 indoor antenna.

I'm sure your line of vision to the Empire State Building is better than the one I had from a 5th floor walk-up.

Well I look out the window and its right in front of my face, so if my reception is coming from there I suppose I'll have absolutely no problem. Its literally a straight-shot to the building.

the-sloth

01-26-08, 04:58 PM

That was a surprise. I did a scan today and it popped up. Even though I'm in Manhattan, I never got even a whiff of their signal before. Not that there's much on there to watch...

i can't get this with either of my HR20s (directv hd dvr). it doesn't have the ability to scan for OTA channels. it uses the guide data supplied by tribune to map OTA locals. i can't imagine me not being able to pull this channel being in chelsea. any chance tribune has the mapping screwed up? anyone have any ideas?

mw390

01-29-08, 07:02 PM

Did the combiner transmitter go out? All I can get is Channel 5 in HD

mw390

01-29-08, 10:13 PM

Is everyone out there comatose? No responses to my question above? Almost all my channels went out except for WNYW-5.

mw390

01-29-08, 10:42 PM

My bad. My coax from my amp was flaky

sys_epoll

01-29-08, 10:47 PM

SnellKrell

01-30-08, 06:19 AM

Tonight, pretty much lost 5 DT, not completely gone, but a big loss
in signal. Analog 5 was okay, as well as (digital) 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, 2.1
were doing fine. Anyone else see a decrease in signal from 5.1?

For what it's worth, WNYW-DT (5.1 and 5.2) is not a part of the Combiner -
it has its own antenna on the ESB.

mw390

01-30-08, 07:37 AM

For what it's worth, WNYW-DT (5.1 and 5.2) is not a part of the Combiner -
it has its own antenna on the ESB.

yeah I know, that's what made me suspect it was a combiner problem as I was getting just 5.1,5.2 9.1,9.2

mw390

01-30-08, 04:35 PM

And btw, I emailed WCBS a within a couple of hours an engineer who works there emailed me via his Blackberry that everything there was ok. Nice guy

O2C

01-30-08, 11:32 PM

Anyone know the e-mail of a WNBC engineer, preferably one that works on their local news? Can you fire them an e-mail and get them to stop cropping their remote SD camera shots to 16:9, zooming in, and then running way too much edge enhancement on the resulting mess? It looks godawful. Just pillarbox the 4:3 shots like the with all the network and stock footage and only use 16:9 for remotes when you actually buy cameras that can shoot it.

5w30

01-31-08, 12:15 AM

Put 2 and 2 together.
The vice president and news director at WNBC has control over the look and feel of the station.
His name is a matter of public record. Google WNBC and news director.
Email formats at NBC are firstname.lastname@nbcuni.com
FYI, their field cameras can shoot HD. It's the transmission format [microwave and/or satellite] that can't or won't for the most part ... microwave beacuse of the lack of bandwidth, satellite due to lack of easily useable encoding/decoding equipment.

Go with God.

leonsun

02-01-08, 11:57 AM

I am having trouble receiving NBC via OTA.

I live in Flushing of Queens. I have a internal antenna, and I am able to pull in all the major stations except NBC. Just wonder if other people can watch NBC in Queens?

I used to live in Manhatta, and it was fine there.

mw390

02-01-08, 01:01 PM

smirnoffski

02-01-08, 06:52 PM

In Fresh Meadows, Queens here.
I have a Toshiba 26HL47 connected to a Phillips MANT510 amplified indoor antenna.

All I get are snowy analog channels, no digital channels whatsover.
I have the amplification all the way up.

I am on the bottom floor of a brick two story house in a residential area.
All my windows face east.

I've moved the antenna all over my apartment but still no digital channels.

What are my remedies short of a large rooftop antenna?

StudioTech

02-01-08, 10:26 PM

leonsun

02-02-08, 09:01 AM

What is the antenna model?

It's a TERK Indoor Antenna.

mw390

02-02-08, 09:30 AM

It's a TERK Indoor Antenna.

Piece of crap. Get a Silver Sensor at ebay. Search on PHDTV1

I also saw it at Circuit City

mw390

02-02-08, 09:34 AM

Check to make sure that the TV is set to Antenna and not Cable.

See my post above. If I could get channels in Levittown 23 mi east of ESB you can too. Zenith Silver Sensor PHDTV1. Also buy an amp. I used a CM7777

MPW777

02-02-08, 10:28 AM

I have an Olevia 232V 32" HDTV (built in tuners for OTA) and am trying to get OTA digital broadcasts. I am in NNJ. This is actually my son's, but I am borrowing it from him. I last used it at the end of the summer it could pick up fox (5.1), and channels 41 and 50/51. Now it can only get 41, 51 and 68 after a scan. Scans were done on both air and cable settings.

Trying to better understand the real issue here I have been doing some research. I have used antennaweb.org to determine potential stations. I gather from some of the posts on this site that there are those who do not feel this is a reliable resource; however, I believe it is good enough for my purposes as I am close to the source, no real interference issues, and get excellent OTA analog signals.

Most of the channels, according to antennaweb.org, are coming from the same direction (160 degrees, which if I understand this correctly is 20 degrees east of south). This seems to explain 41 and 68, but 51 comes from 212 degrees. Thus it appears the antenna has a significantly wide range.

All the major stations and independents (2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13) are listed at the same distance and direction, so I assume their antennas are located together, but I can't get a one of them in. They are in the same direction and distance as the ones I can get. I tried manual entering in the actual frequency into the TV, but it can't find the signal. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the majors have a weaker signal then these lesser stations.

I am at a loss to make sense of this, perhaps someone can comment on this.

smirnoffski

02-02-08, 11:38 AM

Check to make sure that the TV is set to Antenna and not Cable.

Yes, it is set to Antenna.

Although yesterday I did manage to pick up 9.1 and 9.2 (which is a 480i version of Fox)
But no luck with anything else.
Even those two channels are hit and miss and need to adjust my antenna ears to a very sensitive sweet spot. They come in at 3 bar signal strength but can drop off very quickly.

Anything else I should try?

vkristof

02-02-08, 12:01 PM

Yes, it is set to Antenna.

Although yesterday I did manage to pick up 9.1 and 9.2 (which is a 480i version of Fox)
But no luck with anything else.
Even those two channels are hit and miss and need to adjust my antenna ears to a very sensitive sweet spot. They come in at 3 bar signal strength but can drop off very quickly.

Anything else I should try?

Antenna ears???

How far are you from the ESB?

What kind of antenna do you have??

SnellKrell

02-02-08, 01:23 PM

Antenna ears???

How far are you from the ESB?

What kind of antenna do you have??

Exactly!

What kind of antenna are you using?

When I read "antenna ears" its sounds as if you're using rabbit ears and not a UHF antenna that will give you a shot at getting reception.

At this time, all of the New York Metropolitan area digital stations transmit on UHF frequencies.

Get yourself a decent indoor UHF antenna - I highly recommend the Silver Sensor.

But, please answer the antenna question. What are you using????

smirnoffski

02-02-08, 03:10 PM

Exactly!

What kind of antenna are you using?

When I read "antenna ears" its sounds as if you're using rabbit ears and not a UHF antenna that will give you a shot at getting reception.

At this time, all of the New York Metropolitan area digital stations transmit on UHF frequencies.

Get yourself a decent indoor UHF antenna - I highly recommend the Silver Sensor.

But, please answer the antenna question. What are you using????

As noted in my initial post, I am using a
Phillips MANT510 amplified indoor antenna (It is UHF/VHf of course)

SnellKrell

02-02-08, 03:29 PM

Sorry I didn't notice your first posting which includes the info about the antenna model.

The Philips gets fairly decent reviews.

Here are some thoughts:

Try a Silver Sensor - but it at Circuit City so you can return it without problems if it doesn't make a difference for you.

Also, I've noticed that when you're walking an antenna around a room looking for a
"sweet spot," you have to move slowly and be patient. On my set up, there's a bit
of delay from when you stop at a location and the screen/signal meter reacts.

Wish you well - I know, it's very frustrating!

lecxe

02-03-08, 05:12 PM

I've got to say that WCBS2 probably has the best HD in NY. The picture quality is second to none. The Victoria's Secret show quality looked awesome. You could see every detail on the models, flawless. That's the kind of video they should have in the stores to demonstrate the capabilities of HD to people.

I've also noticed that their Sunday NFL games are better looking than the ones on Fox or NBC, they're an 8.5 where CBS is a 10. There is less artifacting on fast plays, much sharper image in general.....

I agree and disagree. I think that CBS does have the sharpest picture but I do see blocking on fast motion images on that channel. I think it's due to the limitations of the 1080i signal that they use. I don't see the blocking on Fox's programming (as they use 720p) but their picture isn't as sharp as CBS.

BTW... for anyone who cares I'm in Jersey City, NJ on the top floor of a four story condo building atop a cliff. I also have perfect line of sight to the ESB (aprox 3-4 miles away) with no obstructions. I'm using a Radio Shack antenna;model 15-1868. Cheers.

5w30

02-03-08, 06:36 PM

I agree and disagree. I think that CBS does have the sharpest picture but I do see blocking on fast motion images on that channel. I think it's due to the limitations of the 1080i signal that they use. I don't see the blocking on Fox's programming (as they use 720p) but their picture isn't as sharp as CBS.

BTW... for anyone who cares I'm in Jersey City, NJ on the top floor of a four story condo building atop a cliff. I also have perfect line of sight to the ESB (aprox 3-4 miles away) with no obstructions. I'm using a Radio Shack antenna;model 15-1868. Cheers.
WCBS also doesn't use sub-channels that eat up bandwidth ... like WNBC, WABC and WNET.

jefbal99

02-04-08, 09:59 AM

I saw a bit of the NYC Fox stations HD Super Bowl broadcast on DirecTV. I was very impressed, but I think the MPEG4 compression added a bit of swimming grass noise that I didn't see on my local Fox's OTA HD broadcast.

Liked seeing the NYC local commercials though. :)

ghostie

02-06-08, 08:46 AM

dturturro

02-06-08, 04:16 PM

Since my original post is lost due to the server failure, let me repost an abbreviated version:

I've been considering the Channel Master 4221, but am put off by it because it's UHF only. After the 2009 DTV cutoff, there will still be 3 channels (7, 11, 13) that will remain in VHF. That leads me to think a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF antenna is better, but the "gain" isn't nearly as powerful. Any recommendations?

I'm only around 9 miles away, in the Brooklyn (Sunset Park/Bay Ridge) area.

7-13 are in the higher VHF band and may still tune with the CM. Try tuning in the analog channels with it and see how you do.

tld

02-07-08, 04:20 PM

Since my original post is lost due to the server failure, let me repost an abbreviated version:

I've been considering the Channel Master 4221, but am put off by it because it's UHF only. After the 2009 DTV cutoff, there will still be 3 channels (7, 11, 13) that will remain in VHF. That leads me to think a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF antenna is better, but the "gain" isn't nearly as powerful. Any recommendations?

I'm only around 9 miles away, in the Brooklyn (Sunset Park/Bay Ridge) area.

Wow....I wasn't aware of that about channels 7, 11, and 13. Are they giving up their current DTV UHF frequencies (45, 33, and 61) in 2009?

Currently I have a Radio Shack 120" combination antenna with a CM 7777 amp which actually has worked quite well (I'm in central NJ). I thought I was eventually going to possibly get a new UHF only antenna...guess not.

Tom

SnellKrell

02-07-08, 05:16 PM

the-sloth

02-08-08, 08:36 AM

WABC-DT is giving up 45 and will go to 7.

WPIX-DT is giving up 33 to will go to 11. But, WCBS-DT has to leave 56, and will be moving to the then vacated 33.

WNET-DT has to give up 61, and will be moving to 13.

i've downloaded the FCC documents that list all of the changes across the country, but is there a more consumer friendly site that lists the changes for each market?

lostdvd

02-08-08, 10:43 AM

I recently purchased a Terk HDTVa anetenna. I live in Manhattan on the lower east side on the 23rd floor apartment and I do not have line of sight to the Empire State building. At the beginning I was able to get channel 4 and 5 ota hd. Funny thing is that I tried different areas to get the rest and was unsucessful. I experimented by instead of having my antenna tilted up, I had the nose touch the window sill facing down and I was able to get channel 11 hd. I dunno why but this is the only way I can pick up channel 11 hd. However, I'm still having problems getting channel 2 and 7 hd, but I can get their analogue's ok. Any ideas besides the basic trial and error? Thank you.

the-sloth

02-08-08, 12:57 PM

lostdvd

02-08-08, 01:04 PM

for what's it worth terk antennas are notorious for being... well, horrible. i've had good luck with silver sensor indoor antennas in manhattan apartments.

I thought about silver sensor ones? Any you recommend? From what I've read is either Zennith or Philips.

the-sloth

02-08-08, 01:06 PM

I thought about silver sensor ones? Any you recommend? From what I've read is either Zennith or Philips.

they are both the same... circuit city usually has them in stock, i picked up mine at the CC in union square.

lostdvd

02-08-08, 01:39 PM

they are both the same... circuit city usually has them in stock, i picked up mine at the CC in union square.

Is there any difference between the Zenith Zhdtv1 and the Philips PHDTV1 antennas?

Thank you

the-sloth

02-08-08, 01:43 PM

Is there any difference between the Zenith Zhdtv1 and the Philips PHDTV1 antennas?

Thank you

nope, same thing.

lostdvd

02-09-08, 12:28 AM

Blah, I'm getting a little frustrated with the Terk HDTVa. I've tried different positions and still can't get channel 2 and 7 HD. I still can get 4,5,9 and 11. Lol funny I picked up channel 6 hd and 21 hd.

acp7399

02-09-08, 08:08 AM

hphase

02-10-08, 02:35 PM

Hello this is my first post. i recently purchased a 46 xbr4 and have had it for about a week now. While watching channel "my9" on 9.1, i noticed what looks like a small 1 cm horizontal line that comes and goes. I also have directv on video 1 and i don't see it on any of the directv channels, nor is it on any of the other ota hd channels i get (2.1, 4.1 etc). Ive read about dead pixels on this site and wonder if the criteria is that the pixels are consistently discolored? if so, is that the "diagnosis"...or is it normal for diff channels to have diff imperfections, especially when using ota? any help would be greatly appreciated.
That sounds like (looks like?) a digital "blocking" error due to low signal strength. If your set has a menu that shows signal quality, take a look at it to see if your MY9 signal strength is low. If you can adjust your antenna, try to "peak" it on MY9, but don't move it too much to upset the reception on your other channels.

hphase

02-10-08, 02:39 PM

i've downloaded the FCC documents that list all of the changes across the country, but is there a more consumer friendly site that lists the changes for each market?
I don't know how it would rank in user-friendlyness, but try www.rabbitears.info. It will tell you what the current and future channels are.

the-sloth

02-10-08, 07:17 PM

I don't know how it would rank in user-friendlyness, but try www.rabbitears.info. It will tell you what the current and future channels are.

nice! thanks for the link.

the-sloth

02-11-08, 10:01 AM

i'm still having a lot of trouble pulling in WNYE-DT using a DB2 on the rooftop of my 6th story walkup (direct line of sight with ESB). 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 & 13 are all pegged at 100% signal strength. however, I can't get anything on WNYE. can anyone absolutely confirm that this transmitter is on ESB?

i'm considering ditching the DB2 for a V10 so I can be sure to get WABC when they jump down into the VHF band. The V10 has a much more narrow beam width so I want to make sure i don't shoot myself in the foot. Will all of the NYC DMA locals always be broadcasting from a shared single location? I know they are planning on relocating to the freedom tower when it's ready (2020 maybe... lol), but i just don't want to get an antenna with that small of a beam width if there is a chance that i will need to point at multiple locations.

SnellKrell

02-11-08, 10:07 AM

the-sloth

02-11-08, 10:16 AM

By the magic date of 2/17/09, WNYE-DT will be moving its transmission site to the Conde Nast Building at 4 Time Square.

I believe the DT signal is currently coming from a transmitter located in Brooklyn.

ok.. well that certainly explains why i'm having problems getting it. i'm sure if it aimed my DB2 south/southeast i could pull it in.

any idea if WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WABC, WWOR, WPIX and WNET will keep their digital transmitters on ESB after the digital transition date?

O2C

02-12-08, 03:52 AM

I'm less than a mile from where WNYE-DT used to transmit from last year in Brooklyn. They definitely either moved or dropped their trasmit strength down tremendously as they've gone from the absolute strongest channel I got to a marginal one.

The TVFool site still has it placed in a different direction from everything else so I'm guessing they just dropped the power to next to nothing.

TVFool also updated their TV Signal Analysis Results to show an estimated view of what post-transition ought to look like.

vkristof

02-12-08, 06:10 AM

I'm less than a mile from where WNYE-DT used to transmit from last year in Brooklyn. They definitely either moved or dropped their trasmit strength down tremendously as they've gone from the absolute strongest channel I got to a marginal one.

The TVFool site still has it placed in a different direction from everything else so I'm guessing they just dropped the power to next to nothing.

I receive WNYE-DT just fine out in Lake Ronkonkoma, which is 46.5 miles from the ESB.

Based upon earlier comments in this thread I asssume they changed Tx locations.

The traffic cams on .2 are amusing to watch out here.

the-sloth

02-12-08, 10:54 AM

andy.s.lee

02-12-08, 01:35 PM

i could be mis-reading the post-transition map, but it seems like the it has most of the major transmitters located downtown and not on ESB. is that correct?

As things stand right now, several broadcasters are planning to have their transmitter on the Freedom Tower (see this article (http://www.nysun.com/article/66714)). However, things may change if the tower is not built in time or if the broadcasters decide to alter their plans for other reasons.

According to the August 6, 2007 FCC list of final DTV allotments, there are 8 DTV transmitters listed at the coordinates of the Freedom Tower.

Best regards,
Andy

vkristof

02-12-08, 05:19 PM

As things stand right now, several broadcasters are planning to have their transmitter on the Freedom Tower (see this article (http://www.nysun.com/article/66714)). However, things may change if the tower is not built in time or if the broadcasters decide to alter their plans for other reasons.

According to the August 6, 2007 FCC list of final DTV allotments, there are 8 DTV transmitters listed at the coordinates of the Freedom Tower.

Best regards,
Andy
From the article that Andy linked:

"Now, Port Authority officials insist that the tower will be ready by 2012, but there is a degree of uncertainty in the real estate community that the goal will be met."

Yeah, add "me too" to to the "degree of uncertainty in the real estate community". In four years how many stories do they have to build?
How far up is the tower NOW?

jaypb

02-12-08, 05:39 PM

Carnivore

02-13-08, 11:55 AM

I'm testing a new antenna, can someone tell me if WLIW's digital signal is on the air today? I was getting it fine last week but I'm not getting it today, however I'm still getting a fairly clear analog signal from them. I'm trying to determine whether I've got a reception issue or if they're just off.

lostdvd

02-13-08, 12:15 PM

the-sloth

02-15-08, 09:24 AM

Anyone have ideas on what I should do? My apartment does not have LOS to the ESB and I do not get channel 2 and 7 hd. I'm use terk right but just purchased the philips silver sensor and should be arriving this week. I am doomed due to my location or will the silver sensor be more affective than the terk?

i don't have any direct experience with it, but from what i've read the Winegard SS-3000 is a great antenna for apartments and urban locations where you may not have line of sight but you're sure to have a signal bouncing around somewhere in your dwelling. see what your results are with the silver sensor though, i've had great luck with those in apartments.

cmeinck

02-15-08, 10:18 AM

I currently have D*, but having FIOS come Monday. I'm considering the purchase of an OTA antenna, but not sure if it's worth the investment. LNL in Syosset recommended a $127 antenna...add $40 for R6 cabling and it's about $165.

I have (2) TiVo HD units and a D* HR-20. All of which will accept OTA. Question is, is it worth the investment? What are the advantages? BTW, I have a 52" Bravia XBR3.

the-sloth

02-15-08, 02:47 PM

I currently have D*, but having FIOS come Monday. I'm considering the purchase of an OTA antenna, but not sure if it's worth the investment. LNL in Syosset recommended a $127 antenna...add $40 for R6 cabling and it's about $165.

If you're not a DIY'er then I suppose $165 isn't too bad if they are willing to adjust everything and ensure you have a good signal. May want to ask what they will do if they can't get a good signal.

I have (2) TiVo HD units and a D* HR-20. All of which will accept OTA. Question is, is it worth the investment? What are the advantages? BTW, I have a 52" Bravia XBR3.

I'm not sure if the old D* STBs are going to do you any good if you're not a D* sub. Advantages would be that you would have your locals in the event of a Verizon outage. Is it worth the investment.... well, that's not for anyone other than yourself to decide.

Roger Lococco

02-16-08, 09:05 AM

Was I the only one who noticed that Conan dropped off air at like 1AM and there was no signal for the Leno re-run at 3:05 am? My HDtivo cut out about 22 minutes into Conan and there was no recording for Leno at 3am because the "Signal was unavailable"

:confused:

Actually that happened quite often in the past, and one can expect it to continue, when they need to work on the transmitters or whatever they're doing. Sometimes I noticed it was all local stations, not just one. It can be quite frustrating when there's something good on.

the-sloth

02-18-08, 03:39 PM

ok.. well that certainly explains why i'm having problems getting it. i'm sure if it aimed my DB2 south/southeast i could pull it in.

realigned my DB2 and now i'm able to pull in WNYE in addition to all of the other area locals that I was previously getting. thanks for the tip on the current xmitter location.

ewooding

02-18-08, 04:39 PM

Hi Everyone,

I am not sure if this is the right forum or thread to be posting this in, but I have come across an issue with some HD channels that I currently get through the cable in my apartment.

Note, I DO NOT PAY FOR CABLE. This is the basic channels that are provided I assume because using an antenna is next to impossible in many parts of the city. Now I have been able to get all of the local channels coming through in HD up until sometime yesterday. I was watching the Daytona 500 on Fox HD, and now both the CW (1-11) and Fox HD (1-5) are missing from the lineup. I tried readding them with the auto program but nothing came up, and when I try to go directly to the station it doesn't work.

Is there anyone else that uses this method that is experiencing the same problem? If this isn't the right forum, please direct me to the right one, THANKS!

SnellKrell

02-18-08, 04:48 PM

No, this is not the correct Forum for your question. This one has to do with
Over-The-Air Info and Reception.

You should first determine which cable company is providing the service.

Then go the New York Forum that relates to that cable company.

What you are dealing with are local HD channels that are not scrambled, they are called QAM channels.

ewooding

02-18-08, 04:52 PM

Thanks Gary.

I assume it's TWC, I am in the UES. I'll go searching for that board.

SnellKrell

02-18-08, 04:57 PM

I am on East 63rd Street near Second and all of the local QAM HD channels are there.

You are more than likely on a different trunk line.

ghostie

02-19-08, 02:15 PM

I installed a Winegard PR7032 on the roof yesterday and was able to pick up all my expected channels, including WNET-DT 13.1-3. WNET-DT was the most picky, displaying 3 to 5 bars on Samsung's signal strength meter (by comparison, WNBC shows 8-10 bars consistently) and dropping out completely if the antenna was rotated a few degrees in either direction. When it rained yesterday, digital 13.1-3 disappeared completely. Is there any way to get WNET-DT more reliably? It's an HD channel, so I'd imagine some of those nature shows would look stunning.

In addition, during the installation, I noticed AntennaWeb now shows post-transition information. I noticed my info changed from 9 miles@21 degrees to about 5 miles@8 degrees. Where is the 2009 broadcast location?

And I know this is the wrong place to ask, but does anyone know the amount of loss in signal strength when using a f-coax coupler/grounding block? I don't see any RG-6 couplers, so I assume RG-59 couplers will do the trick.

SnellKrell

02-19-08, 02:29 PM

Ghostie -

With digital transmission, you'll have to change your name!

First, currently and until February 2009, of all the New York, English languarge major Metro stations emanate from the Empire State Building.

WNET-DT transmits at the lowest power and the highest frequency, channel 61.
Either is a killer and when you put the two detriments together - forget about it!
Very difficult station to receive.

AntennaWeb info is notorious for being out of date.
WNET-DT has been on the Empire State for a number of years and will remain there with a new digital channel as of February 2009. It will close down Channel 13 analogue and then open Channel 13 digital.

I've read somewhere that a barrel coupler can lose .5db.

Hope this helps.

dturturro

02-19-08, 02:47 PM

Any idea what power WNET will transmit when they switch from 61 to 13?

SnellKrell

02-19-08, 02:56 PM

3.2kW - ERP, the same as WABC-DT and WPIX-DT.

That appears to be the maximum allowed for channels 7-13 located on the
Empire State Building.

dturturro

02-19-08, 04:36 PM

That doesn't sound like a lot of coverage. I'm 24 miles from the ESB. Should I kiss OTA goodbye?

SnellKrell

02-19-08, 04:42 PM

You're right, it doesn't sound like much. But, remember that's for VHF channels 7-13 which need much less power than UHF. The higher the frequency (channel allocation), the more power that is needed for the same relative coverage.

I would "think" 24 miles from the ESB is quite reasonable for you to expect a solid signal.

Do you have a lot of stuff in the way? Is your antenna as high as possible?

There are so many varialbles.

dturturro

02-19-08, 05:31 PM

I get all the major networks pretty solid. WNET is ok. I was hoping the transition would help rather then hurt. I guess I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed!

Packeteers

02-19-08, 06:45 PM

YAY :D

I finally found my dream thread! where I can compare notes with others
in my area seeking and enjoying free over the air ATSC reception boxes.

I have to do 3 installations over the next few Months;
-a basement apartment in a Brooklyn house 11210
-a first floor house out in 5-Towns 11691
-and the toughest project of all, a second floor
apartment in a 7-story building stuck in a valley
surrounded by dozens of other buildings 11375

I'll get started as soon as my Federal $40 coupons come in the mail,
and I find the time to read over 200 previous pages of this thread.
Then I'll chronicle what I discover with this thread. wish me luck ;)

Tcatman

02-19-08, 07:41 PM

Gary

I tried two TERK antenaes, one powered rabbit ears and one low profile double triangle anttena on the upper east side facing the east river.

I could not get any signal... even sticking them out the window. Any hope with the silver sensor antena?

The Terk digital model woked a bit better... I only got channel 13 though.

Thanks for any insight

SnellKrell

02-19-08, 08:36 PM

If your apartment totally faces east, that's a problem.

Amazed that the only channel you could receive is 13. I have to put my Silver Sensor on the window sill to get it. The windows in my living room face west and I can aim the antenna southwest, toward the Empire State.

The vargaries of digital reception, using an indoor antenna, in a location filled with tall buldings, cannot really allow me to honestly give you a lot of hope.

I would stay away from powered (amplified) antennas. Get yourself an Silver Sensor, buy it at a place where you can return it (if necessary). Connect the antenna with plenty of coax cable. Walk it around your room, trying to find "sweet spots" for various
channels. The Silver Sensor is highly, highly directional. So the slightest change in its positioning can be the difference between success and utter frustration.

Facing east, you should be able to pick up WLIW-DT, broadcasts on channel 22 -remapped as 21.2 - surprised you didn't get this one!

With the Silver Sensor, start by pointing it toward the Empire State - 34th and Fifth.

The higher you can position the antenna the better.

What floor are you on?

I wish you well, don't give up and keep asking questions!

Gary

Packeteers

02-21-08, 03:01 PM

In case anyone here is buying the RjTECH RJ-900ATSC from Newegg;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882107064

you can now get the compatible SmartAntenna;
http://www.summitsource.com/dx-antenna-dta5000-tv-smart-antenna-multidirectional-hdtv-digital-uhf-vhf-outdoor-offair-high-definition-local-hd-sylvania-television-reception-aerial-green-zone-part-dta5000-p-6320.html

it sure would be awesome if someone in an urban spot
would take the plunge, and let us know how it worked.

Here is some encouraging feedback from someone who tried it, but remember
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13015675&posted=1#post13015675
the converter box chips have been revised, and should work even better now.

hdtvjunkie247

02-23-08, 02:16 PM

I've been watching WWE Friday Night Smackdown on WPIX-HD for the past couple of weeks and when there is about 2 minutes left in the program it switches back to SD. This has occurred every time since Smackdown went HD last month. Is there a reason for this?

kevin86

02-25-08, 12:48 PM

the-sloth

02-25-08, 01:24 PM

Hi, I was hoping someone might be able to answer my question for me. I am a New Yorker who is now living in Central Connecticut. I am seriously missing the NYC news stations. Is there any chance I will be able to pick up WNBC or WCBS OTA from Central CT?

Thanks.

have you checked the 'normal' resources for your new location (ie antennaweb.org & tvfool.com)? if not, that is where I would start.

Packeteers

02-25-08, 03:00 PM

sloth, most TV news stations broadcast much of their content on their web sights. so if an antenna/tuner solution is not feasible, you should check the web out.

the-sloth

02-25-08, 03:02 PM

sloth, most TV news stations broadcast much of their content on their web sights. so if an antenna/tuner solution is not feasible, you should check the web out.

yeah.. i just assumed that since he posted in an OTA thread, he was interested in receiving their terrestrial signal.

KML-224

02-25-08, 05:10 PM

Hi, I was hoping someone might be able to answer my question for me. I am a New Yorker who is now living in Central Connecticut. I am seriously missing the NYC news stations. Is there any chance I will be able to pick up WNBC or WCBS OTA from Central CT?

Thanks.

If you're in New Britain, consider that answer to be a big "No". :(

Packeteers

02-27-08, 04:34 PM

http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/16813/7d/www.walmart.com/i/catalog/modules/G0040/walmart_logo2.gifWATCH

If anyone in the *NYC area spots the;

Thomson RCA DTA800 B Digital TV Converter Box

http://i.walmart.com/i/p/00/03/49/09/72/0003490972047_215X215.jpg (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8343230) http://i25.tinypic.com/108fyua.jpg

which is a new version with the SmartAntenna support built in.

Please let us know here! I need to buy them once my $40 coupons arrive,
it's impossible for a store rep to tell me what's on the floor over the phone.
the box may look the same, but should have a B sticker on the packaging.
the Walmart store item number may be 003490972047.

*area Walmart locations;
NY: Valley Stream, Westbury, Uniondale, East Meadow, White Plains
NJ: Secaucus, Kearny, Linden, Union, Woodbridge, Saddle Brook

n2ubp

03-03-08, 07:44 PM

Federal Communications Commission
Washington, D.C. 20554 Approved by OMB
3060-1105 (January 2008)
FCC 387
FOR FCC USE ONLY

DTV TRANSITION STATUS REPORT

SECTION I - GENERAL INFORMATION
Licensee/Permittee Information
1. Legal Name of the Licensee/Permittee
NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE CO.
Mailing Address
1299 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE, NW

SECTION II - CURRENT STATUS
1.
Currently Assigned Channels:
a. NTSC Channel: 4
b. Post-Transition DTV Channel: 28
c. Pre-Transition DTV Channel (if different from Post-Transition channel.)
2.
Relevant FCC File No. for Post-Transition Authorization, if on file with Commission (or indicate "Not Yet Filed"):
FCC File No. - Not Yet Filed
3.
Current Construction Deadline: 08/18/2008

Exhibits Exhibit 2
Description: WNBC DTV POST TRANSITION PLAN

WNBC IS A NEW YORK STATION THAT HAS BEEN NEGATIVELY AFFECTED BY THE LOSS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2001. WNBC WAS ABLE TO CONSTRUCT AN INTERIM DIGITAL FACILITY ON ITS POST-TRANSITION CHANNEL, WHICH IT HAS BEEN OPERATING FOR SEVERAL YEARS IN ORDER TO PROVIDE DIGITAL BROADCAST SERVICE.

THE BUILDING INTENDED TO REPLACE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THE FREEDOM TOWER, DOES NOT APPEAR LIKELY TO BE CONSTRUCTED BY FEBRUARY 2009, WHICH PRECLUDES THE STATION FROM COMPLETING CONSTRUCTION OF ITS APPENDIX B FACILITY AS OF THAT TIME. ACCORDINGLY AND CONSISTENT WITH CONSULTATIONS WITH COMMISSION STAFF, WNBC INTENDS TO CONTINUE USING ITS PRE-TRANSITION FACILITIES POST-TRANSITION. THE WNBC ALLOTTED POST-TRANSITION CHANNEL IS THE SAME AS ITS PRE-TRANSITION CHANNEL.

ON OR BEFORE MARCH 17, 2008, THE STATION WILL FILE AN APPLICATION TO COVER FOR A CONSTRUCTION PERMIT TO USE THE CURRENT WNBC-DT DIGITAL FACILITIES POST-TRANSITION. ASSUMING THE COMMISSION GRANTS THE APPLICATION, THE STATION INTENDS TO PROMPTLY FILE A LICENSE TO COVER APPLICATION FOR THAT FACILITY.

WHEN THE FREEZE ON EXPANDED COVERAGE IS LIFTED IN AUGUST 2008, WNBC WILL FILE AN APPLICATION FOR A DTV FACILITY AT THE FREEDOM TOWER. IT IS THE STATION'S UNDERSTANDING THAT IT WILL BE ABLE TO SUBMIT THIS APPLICATION EVEN IF THE PERMIT APPLICATION FOR ITS CURRENT FACILITY REMAINS PENDING OR HAS NOT YET BEEN LICENSED.

WNBC IS WORKING WITH OTHER BROADCASTERS IN THE NEW YORK CITY AREA TO IMPROVE DTV SERVICE IN NEW YORK CITY. IN ADDITION TO THE FREEDOM TOWER FACILITES, THE MTVA IS CURRENTLY TESTING A DISTRIBUTED TRANSMISSION SYSTEM IN BROOKLYN. WNBC IS ALSO WORKING WITH BROADCASTERS ON THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING TO OPTIMIZE THE ANTENNAS THERE AND PLANNING FOR ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS ONCE ANTENNAS NO LONGER REQUIRED AFTER THE TRANSITION ARE REMOVED.

Attachment 2

Exhibit 4
Description: WNBC DTV TRANSITION TIME LINE

SEE EXHIBIT 2 FOR DETAILS ON THE WNBC DTV TRANSITION PLAN.

TIME LINE:
ON OR BERFORE MARCH 17, 2008: WNBC WILL FILE AN APPLICATION TO LICENSE THE STATION'S CURRENT DTV FACILITIES AS ITS POST-TRANSITION FACILITIES.

AUGUST 2008 WHEN THE FREEZE ON FILING FOR COVERAGE EXTENSION IS LIFTED: WNBC WILL FILE AN APPLICATION FOR ITS FINAL POST-TRANSITION DTV FACILITIES AT THE FREEDOM TOWER.

FEBRUARY 17, 2009 - WNBC WILL CEASE ANALOG BROADCASTING ON CHANNEL 4 AT 11:59 PM

NEGOTIATIONS ARE UNDERWAY WITH CONTRACTORS, ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS INVOLVED WITH CONSTRUCTION OF THE FREEDOM TOWER TO FINALIZE THE DESIGN OF THE SPACE AND ANTENNA SUPPORT STRUCTURE FOR DTV BROADCASTING. THE DESIGN OF THE ANTENNA SYSTEM AND TRANSMITTER CONFIGURATION IS BEING FINALIZED. WHEN ESTIMATED ORDERING, INSTALLATION AND COMPLETION DATES ARE AVAILABLE THIS EXHIBIT WILL BE UPDATED.
Attachment 4

n2ubp

03-03-08, 08:27 PM

Exhibit 2
Description: EXHIBIT 2

EDUCATIONAL BROADCASTING CORPORATION, LICENSEE OF TELEVISION STATION WNET(TV), NEWARK, NJ, CURRENTLY OPERATES AN ANALOG FACILITY ON CHANNEL 13 AND PRE-TRANSITION DTV FACILITY ON CHANNEL 61. THE STATION HAS BEEN IN OPERATION FROM THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING IN NEW YORK CITY SINCE THE DESTRUCTION OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2001.

WITH THE PRE-TRANSITION CHANNEL ALLOTMENT OF 61 BEING POST TRANSITION OUT OF CORE, WNET(TV) CHOSE TO RETURN TO ITS VHF ANALOG ALLOTMENT CHANNEL 13 FOR THE POST-TRANSITION DIGITAL FACILITY. OPERATION OF THE POST-TRANSITION DTV FACILITY IS UNABLE TO COMMENCE UNTIL FEBRUARY 17, 2009. WNET(TV)'S ULTIMATE PLAN IS TO OPERATE WITH FACILITIES TO BE INSTALLED ON FREEDOM TOWER AT THE FORMER WORLD TRADE CENTER SITE, ONCE CONSTRUCTION OF THAT FACILITY IS COMPLETED. AT THE TRANSITION DATE, THE STATION WILL OPERATE POST-TRANSITION ON CHANNEL 13 FROM TEMPORARY FACILITIES AT THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING, CURRENTLY USED BY THE STATION'S PRE-TRANSITION DTV CHANNEL 61 PURSUANT TO STA. THE FOLLOWING STEPS DESCRIBE THE TRANSTION TO POST-TRANSITION OPERATION ON CHANNEL 13 AT SUCH TEMPROARY FACILITIES.

ON FEBRUARY 17, 2009, WNET(TV) WILL PERFORM A FLASH-CUT TO THE POST-TRANSITION DTV FACILITY AT THAT TIME. THE PLAN TO PERFORM THIS SWITCH IS SUMMARIZED BELOW.

THE STATION'S CURRENT ANALOG FACILITY OPERATES WITH A LARCAN TT60M TRANSMITTER CONSISTING OF TWO 30 KW CABINET ASSEMBLIES. THIS CONFIGURATION ALLOWS FOR ONE HALF OF THE EXISTING FACILITY TO CONVERT TO DIGITAL OPERATION WHILE REMAINING OPERATIONAL AT FULL POWER WITH THE ANALOG FACILITY. PRIOR TO THE TRANSITION DATE, HALF OF THE EXISTING TRANSMITTER WILL BE CONVERTED TO ALLOW DIGITAL OPERATION AND OPERATIONALLY TESTED. THE RESULTANT LOSS IN ANALOG ERP IS LESS THAN 20% AND IS WITHIN THE TOLERANCE ALLOWED IN 73.1560. THE EXISTING ANTENNA SYSTEM REQUIRES NO MODIFICATION FOR DIGITAL OPERATION. AT MIDNIGHT ON THE TRANSITION DATE THE STATION WILL CEASE CHANNEL 61 OPERATION AND WILL COMMENCE DIGITAL OPERATION ON THE POST-TRANSITION ALLOTMENT CHANNEL 13. SUBSEQUENT TO THE DIGITAL TRANSITION, THE REMAINING ANALOG TRANSMITTER HALF WILL BE CONVERTED POST TRANSITION TO PROVIDE FOR A REDUNDANT FACILITY.

WNET ANTICIPATED DTV TRANSITION TIMELINE:

JANUARY 2008 PURCHASE AND SERVICES CONTRACT WERE EXECUTED WITH LARCAN COMMUNICATIONS FOR DTV CONVERSION EQUIPMENT AND SERVICES. WORK BEGAN ON ENGINEERING FOR DTV CP APPLICATION.

MARCH 2008 CP APPLICATION SUBMISSION FOR DTV CHANNEL 13 FACILITY.

OCTOBER 2008 EQUIPMENT DELIVERY INCLUDING NEW DIGITAL MASK FILTERS, EXCITERS AND METERING TO THE WNET TRANSMITTER SITE.

NOVEMBER 2008 INSTALLATION OF ADDITIONAL AND REDUNDANT TERMINAL EQUIPMENT.

DECEMBER 8 19, 2008 CONVERT HALF OF THE TRANSMITTER FOR DIGITAL OPERATION WITH THE INSTALLATION OF NEW MASK FILTER, EXCITER AND MISCELLANY EQUIPMENT.

JANUARY 6-23 DTV TESTING INCLUDING OVERNIGHT ON AIR PROGRAM TESTS.

FEBRUARY 17, 2009. CEASE ANALOG OPERATION AND COMMENCE DIGITAL OPERATIONS ON CHANNEL 13.

MARCH 2009 COMPLETE CONVERSION OF REMAINING TRANSMITTER HALF FOR DIGITAL OPERATION REDUNDANCY.

THE STATION ANTICIPATES FILING A MAXIMIZATION APPLICATION IN AUGUST 2008 TO ULTIMATELY OPERATE FROM POST-TRANSITION FACILTIES FROM THE FREEDOM TOWER.

Attachment 2

Exhibit 4
Description: EXHIBIT 4

WNET(TV) CURRENTLY PROVIDES PRE-TRANSITION DIGITAL SERVICE ON CHANNEL 61 AND WILL PROVIDE POST-TRANSITION DIGITAL SERVICE ON CHANNEL 13.

DUE TO THE DESTRUCTION OF THE STATION'S DIGITAL FACILITIES AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2001, THE STATION HAS CONSTRUCTED DIGITAL FACILITIES AT THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING. ULTIMATELY, WNET(TV) INTENDS TO CONSTRUCT AND OPERATE DIGITAL FACILITIES FROM THE FREEDOM TOWER, WHICH IS TO BE BUILT AT THE LOCATION OF THE FORMER WORLD TRADE CENTER.

CONSTRUCTION OF THE FREEDOM TOWER IS NOT EXPECTED TO BE COMPLETED BEFORE FEBRUARY 17, 2009. THEREFORE, WNET(TV) WILL FILE A CONSTRUCTION PERMIT APPLICATION FOR POST-TRANSITION FACILITIES AT THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING. WHEN THE FCC LIFTS ITS CURRENT FREEZE ON MAXIMIZATION APPLICATIONS, WNET(TV) WILL FILE AN APPLICATION FOR MAXIMIZED FACILITIES FROM THE FREEDOM TOWER LOCATION. IT IS WNET(TV)'S UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS PROCESS WILL CONTINUE TO PROVIDE INTERFERENCE PROTECTION TO THE STATIONS APPENDIX B FACILITIES.

EXHIBIT 2 PROVIDES A DESCRIPTION AND ESTIMATED TIMELINE FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF WNET(TV)'S TEMPORARY POST-TRANSITION DIGITAL FACILITIES AT THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING

n2ubp

03-03-08, 08:32 PM

FCC Form 387
Comprehensive Exhibit 4
Page 1 of 2
Comprehensive Exhibit 4 to
FCC Form 387 – Station WABC-DT
WABC-DT (“WABC”) is submitting this Comprehensive Exhibit to FCC Form 387 to
provide the information requested in response to (1) Section IV – Additional Steps Needed to
Complete Construction, (2) Section V – Analog Service, and (3) Section VI – DTV Transition
Plan.
Background. The September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks destroyed WABC’s analog and
digital facilities at the World Trade Center. WABC’s prompt construction of multiple
replacement facilities has been documented in previous filings. At present, WABC operates main
analog (channel 7) and main digital (channel 45) facilities at the Empire State Building in New
York City.1 WABC also holds authorizations for analog and digital facilities at the Four Times
Square building in New York City, which it generally utilizes during construction on its main
facilities at the Empire State Building.2 At all times, WABC has retained its World Trade Center
authorizations (analog license and a digital construction permit with a pending license
application) given its ultimate plans to return to the previous World Trade Center site upon
construction of the Freedom Tower.
Analog Service. WABC will continue broadcasting a full, authorized analog service on
channel 7 until the end of the DTV transition on February 17, 2009. Through January 2009,
analog service will be provided from the Empire State Building; from January 2009 through
February 17, 2009, analog service will be provided from redundant facilities at the Four Times
Square building. This location change is necessary in order to prepare the Empire State Building
facilities for post-transition DTV operation, as described below. Analog service will not be
interrupted and the coverage from the Four Times Square building will replicate the current
coverage from the Empire State Building.
DTV Transition Plan and Additional Steps Needed to Complete Construction. WABC
will continue broadcasting a full, authorized digital service on channel 45 until the end of the
DTV transition. WABC will operate its post-transition DTV facilities on channel 7, its current
NTSC channel, from the Empire State Building. In July 2008, WABC will convert one existing
backup analog transmitter at the Empire State Building for digital use. In January 2009, WABC
will cease analog service from the Empire State Building and simultaneously commence analog
operations from the Four Times Square building, as noted above, to facilitate its post-transition
1 The main analog operations are authorized by a special temporary authorization. The
main digital operations are authorized by an auxiliary construction permit and pending auxiliary
license application.
2 The Four Times Square digital operations are authorized by STA while the analog
operations are authorized by an auxiliary construction permit and pending auxiliary license
application.
FCC Form 387
Comprehensive Exhibit 4
Page 2 of 2
DTV operations at the Empire State Building. In early 2009 (likely Jan. 19 to Feb. 13), WABC
will convert a second transmitter at the Empire State Building from analog to digital. This digital
transmitter and the transmitter converted to digital in July 2008 will be routed to the high-band
VHF antenna already in place at the Empire State Building. On February 17, 2009, WABC will
power-down the analog channel 7 facility at the Four Times Square building and the digital
channel 45 facility at the Empire State Building and simultaneously will commence channel 7
digital operations at the Empire State Building. No changes will be required to the existing
broad-band High VHF antenna systems at either the Empire State Building or the Four Times
Square building.
Appendix B Facilities and Permanent Post-Transition DTV Facilities. As described
above, WABC’s DTV transition will proceed with no significant service interruptions.3 WABC’s
post-transition channel 7 DTV facility at the Empire State Building will be fully constructed on
February 17, 2009. Ultimately, however, WABC plans to replace the Empire State Building
facility with one to be located at the previous site of the World Trade Center, likely when
construction of the Freedom Tower at that site is complete.4 The facilities specified for WABC
in Appendix B match these planned World Trade Center site facilities and not the Empire State
Building facilities. WABC will file any applications or other requests necessary in order to
authorize its DTV operations at the Empire State Building and simultaneously maintain
interference protection for its Appendix B facilities.
Form 387 “Final” Facilities. In order to complete the attached Form 387, WABC has
treated its Empire State Building DTV facilities as its “post-transition facility” or “final DTV
(post transition) facility” but does not actually intend for these facilities to be its “final” facilities.
Rather, as noted above, WABC’s “final” DTV facilities likely will be its planned facilities at the
World Trade Center site (or comparable facilities) with parameters matching those specified in
Appendix B or otherwise authorized by the Commission. Further, because it remains concerned
that the low power levels specified in Appendix B for many high VHF channel stations like
WABC are insufficient, WABC may seek Commission authority to increase its Appendix B
power level in order to provide more reliable DTV service to its current analog viewers.
3 The post-transition DTV operation on channel 7 at the Empire State Building will
replicate the pre-transition analog operations on channel 7.
4 WABC anticipates that operation from the Freedom Tower, unlike its operation from the
Empire State Building, will permit it to reach all of the viewers reached from the World Trade
Center before the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

n2ubp

03-03-08, 08:34 PM

Exhibit 4
DTV Transition Plan
WPIX, Inc. (“WPIX”), licensee of WPIX-DT, New York, New York, is currently operating on NTSC channel 11 and DTV Channel 33. WPIX will return to Channel 11 for its post-transition DTV operation.
Equipment for conversion of the transmitter is in storage waiting to be shipped to the site.
Construction Schedule:
Licensees schedule for implementing Post-Transition DTV facilities is as follows.
• August 2008
Reduce NTSC power to 50% and convert ½ of the NTSC transmitter for DTV operation.
• February 17 2009
Terminate DTV operations on Ch 33 and NTSC operations on CH 11
• February 18, 2009
Commence operations on DTV 11 at 100% authorized power.
WPIX must coordinate transition changes with WABC and WNET due to a shared VHF combiner and antenna at the Empire State Building, and with WCBS as the latter station will be using DTV channel 33 for its post transition DTV operations.

petp

03-10-08, 01:30 PM

i recently swtiched back to an indoor antenna since im having some construction on my building and my cable is out.

last spring i was catching channels 2/4/5/7/9/11 all in HD. now im getting just snow on the analog channels and maybe just sound on the HD channels. did they weaken the signals or something recently?

im in an apartment building in northern queens and using a RCA indoor antenna (used to work just fine). is there any better antenna out there....do any local stores sell the silver sensor? i checked best buy in astoria and queens center and circuit city near queens center and they dont have it. is silver sensor THAT much better than every other antenna?

many thanks

SnellKrell

03-10-08, 02:25 PM

The only stations that have weakened their signals are member of the the New Jersey
Network - for pressing economic problems in the state.

The stations you mentioned, are all coming in fine (the same as in the past) for me -
which can differ day to day.

I use the Silver Sensor and am very pleased. Ilive in the east 60s in Manhattan, surrounded by taller buildings and lots of multipath.

Why not buy one from Circuit City and try it out, or from another provider where it can be returned?

Wish you luck.

Roger Lococco

03-11-08, 09:25 AM

the Silver Sensor was dramatically better for me here in Jamaica than all the other typical antennas in stores, i.e. amplified rabbit ear loop combos, the flying saucer Rat Shack one, the awful Terk HDTVa, etc.

Packeteers

03-16-08, 09:25 AM

anyone looking for the RCA DTA800B at Walmart around NYC
would be well served to call and have someone in electronics
check stock on this item. it seems they have piles of crappy
Magnavox TB100MW9 boxes, and may be reluctant to stock
a superior alternate product until those crappy boxes sell out.

I would appreciate if ANYONE sees the RCA box sold at their
local Walmart in the NYC area to please post that fact here.

hxmiller

03-17-08, 11:11 AM

Are some stations in the NY area turning off or lowering power the DTV signal overnight? I'm see strange things on various stations overnight.

I'm in Morris County, NJ.

jaypb

03-17-08, 12:12 PM

Just curious if anyone else is using an HR-20 (D* HD DVR) to receive and record OTA signals from NYC. I'm seeing oddities with 4-1 on MULTIPLE receivers when I record 4-1 and fast forward through the recordings---there is pixelation that occurs only on the left hand side of the screen on EVERY recording I have from 4-1...on 2 different HR-20's both hooked up to the same antenna...but on NO other OTA stations I receive.

Having said this, there is NO problem/pixelization when watching recorded/live material...it only seems to be "there" when we are fast forwarding through programming....again, on EVERY recording off of 4-1...but I NEVER see the same on any other local OTA programming that we record/watch.

Very odd....but something I just wanted to ask while it was fresh in mind....

:confused:

StudioTech

03-17-08, 06:08 PM

jaypb

03-18-08, 06:44 AM

Are some stations in the NY area turning off or lowering power the DTV signal overnight? I'm see strange things on various stations overnight.

I'm in Morris County, NJ.

I've noticed the same here in northern Middlesex County.

Most definitely NBC-DT is...since I record Conan/Leno every night. This most recently happened Friday at around 1am since my HD Tivo only recorded 22 minutes or so of Conan...and I think he starts at 12:37AM. In addition the 3:05AM Leno didn't record.....

the-sloth

03-18-08, 04:05 PM

TuxBobble

03-19-08, 10:45 AM

the-sloth

03-19-08, 10:49 AM

I'm somewhat new to these forums, and only just recently picked up an HDTV. We've been getting Time Warner Cable in our house for years now, and I don't even remember the days of antennas, really. (I'm 21 years old, and most of my life we've had cable in some form or other)

I've been looking into getting an antenna to attach to my TV to pull in some HD channels, if possible. However I don't want to disconnect my cable box in the process. I just want to know, if I buy an antenna, will I be able to hook both the wired cable and the antenna up to the TV at the same time? My instincts would tell me that I'd need 2 coax inputs for the TV, as I assume the antenna hooks up the same way.

If anyone can inform me a bit, please let me know. Wasn't sure where to post this question so if it's in the wrong place please let me know and I'll repost elsewhere. Thanks in advance.

assuming your new HDTV has an ATSC tuner (for OTA HD) you would need two inputs.

if you have analog cable...
One coax input for the ATSC antenna (HD) and one for your analog cable.

if you have digital cable (w/ or w/o HD service)
One coax input for the ATSC antenna (HD) composite/hdmi/component input for your digital cable receiver.

obviously you would need to change inputs in order to switch between the two sources.

ray field

03-24-08, 10:16 AM

Last week I just bought a friend's old Sony KD-34XBR960 and hauled it out to my apartment Brooklyn (11210). We set it up using a Radio Shack powered set of rabbit ears and much to my surprise, got quite a number of HD channels -- 2.1 (spectacular-looking), 5.1, 5.2, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3. Analog reception had always been poor here, and remains so.

My landlord will not permit me to put an antenna on the roof. What option is likeliest to improve my reception (and give me HD Channel 11 and WNBC) -- the Silver Sensor, and/or some sort of signal booster? If the latter can someone recommend one?

SnellKrell

03-24-08, 10:20 AM

Buy the Silver Sensor from a place, if necessary, where you can return it.

It works very well for me in the middle of Manhattan - surrounded by taller
buildings and a lot of multipath.

billyparrott

03-24-08, 08:31 PM

For the past two days I haven't been able to pick up any OTA HD channels.
Months of problem-free reception, but now no 2.1, 4.1, 7.1, etc...
I rescanned the channels and roamed with the antenna but can't get any of them.
I have a Panasonic with a ATSC tuner and a powered Terk in Brooklyn 11216.
Anyone else have the channels drop out and disappear?

pdroth

03-25-08, 01:12 PM

icemannyr

03-28-08, 04:12 PM

I use a powered Radio Shack antenna with my tuner card, I'm on the other side of the Hudson in NJ and am able to tune in all stations but WNET-DT.
tear.
http://radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2131034&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032204&parentPage=family

Anyone notice on WNYE-DT's sub channel that there is a loud audio buzz and the video level is to hot causing the video to distort?

mnevar

03-29-08, 04:41 PM

the-sloth

03-29-08, 04:42 PM

everything is a-ok here in midtown... getting strong signals on 2,4,5,7,9,11,13,25 and 31.

beatles6

03-31-08, 10:28 PM

I have a rooftop antenna and a Dish 622 receiver. This week all NY OTA stations went out. I can still receive NJN. I tried repositioning the antenna with no luck. Very strange. Signal has always been good here going back to pre-911.

Same thing here in Staten Island. Today 2-1 and 7-1 came back. Was also getting perfect reception before.

shadowcaster

04-01-08, 08:12 AM

Western Suffolk cnty, L.I....never have been able to receive 4-1 NBC.
Rooftop ant, 220 ft asl. C'mon NBC, bring up the power to FCC specs already !!

ukitali

04-01-08, 12:36 PM

I just purchased an HDTV with a built in ATSC/NTSC/QAM tuner would like to try to get some OTA HD channels. I'm in zip code 10003 (within 2 miles of the ESB) on the 2nd floor of an apartment facing north. When I looked up my location on antennaweb mostly yellow uhf stations popped up suggesting I need a multi directional antenna. But I see most people recommending the Silver Sensor which is a directional antenna I believe? I use basic rabbit ears now and can pick up the basic analog channels but the quality is never very good. What's by best bet in terms of picking up HD channels?

Trip in VA

04-01-08, 12:51 PM

Start with your rabbit ears and see what happens. There's a chance they might deliver acceptable reception, in which case you don't need to invest in anything else.

More likely, though, you will have issues with the rabbit ears, and you'll need something else. While antennaweb may say use an omnidirectional antenna, issues in New York will are more often related to multipath (ghosting) than actual signal problems. Looking at channels 31 and 41 might give a good idea of whether or not this will be a problem for you. When multipath is your problem, you need a directional antenna like the Silver Sensor to reject the reflected signals and focus only on the one you want.

- Trip

Soroc

04-01-08, 03:03 PM

Hi guys, I just picked up a Toshiba 32RV530u and wanted to get a good OTA antenna. I'm in Lower Westchester County more precisely in the zip code 10552. I live in a 6 story apartment building and I'm on the first floor. I have windows pointing eastward and one southbound (The one I would probably want to use). The southbound window points directly at another building though :(

Does anyone have any advice or experience picking up signals from about 15 miles north of manhattan? Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Should I just pick up a 15 dollar antenna to test out first?

SnellKrell

04-01-08, 03:10 PM

If your are talking about an indoor antenna, buy a Silver Sensor from a place where, if necessary, you can return it.

It's highly directional and very good!

PitPirate

04-05-08, 09:06 PM

ray field

04-06-08, 04:52 PM

the Silver Sensor arrived about a week and a half ago (Brooklyn/11210) but it does not perform as well here as the 3-year old powered Radio Shack antenna. I'm going to hang onto it, however, just in case it winds up working for some channels the RS can't get.

late last night I let the TV find channels all over again: suddenly for the first time I'm getting NBC in HD (two channels) and 2-3 others. hopefully this will last.

tryin2search

04-07-08, 11:04 PM

Here in midtown with an AVerMedia AVerTV Combo PCIe MCE tuner card and the Silver Sensor attenna - I am able to get excellent HD reception for all the standard channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, WWOR, WPIX, and a couple of Spanish channels liek WFUT). However, I get absolutely no signal for WNET (PBS) - which I understand is common but still very frustrating... Sigh.

I would have thought being 20 blocks away from the ESB meant that I could get PBS but I guess not.

I'll also note that I get all the same channels with the simple "testing" attenna that came with the AverMedia tuner card as with the Silver Sensor - so I will most likely return the Silver Sensor to Amazon.

Any other channels you guys think I should be able to get?

I get absolutely no signal for WNET no matter where I stand. Any chance an amplified attenna would help, or is it a lost cause? If so, any recommendations?

Well prepare to be frustrated a little while longer. I sent an email to WNET in late February about their signal, this is their reply:

Thank you for taking the time to write us regarding our programming. We appreciate your comments regarding our digital signal; feedback from our viewers, whether positive or negative, is always welcome.

Our engineers are working on a permanent and more powerful signal output. Thirteen will upgrade it signal output by February of 2009.

As a public television station, Thirteen depends on viewers like you to enable us to continue fulfilling our mission to present quality programming. We hope that you will continue to enjoy our fine programming and thank you for your continued support of Thirteen/WNET.

mbnzgrl

04-08-08, 04:06 PM

Hi Guys -- I will soon be an owner of a new HDTV and in the learning process. Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but when I put in my address on the AntennaWeb site, it gives me 13 channels that are Digital stations. Does that mean these are HD stations? Thanks.

SnellKrell

04-08-08, 09:45 PM

Not necessarily HD!

All HD stations are Digital.

But not all Digital stations are HD!!!

Roger Lococco

04-10-08, 11:54 PM

anyone here get a CECB yet, if so, did you get more distant channels from Jersey, etc.

shadowcaster

04-11-08, 09:38 AM

Roger, the box has nothing to do w/signal strength, it's strictlty a converter.

OWENF

04-11-08, 10:51 AM

anyone here get a CECB yet, if so, did you get more distant channels from Jersey, etc.

Roger I picked up the cecb from BB about 3 weeks ago and live down in the
Philly DMA. Currently I can receive all Philly when pointed in that direction
which is about 13 miles. When pointed toward NYC (70 + miles) I have solid reception from 2.1,7.1,7.2,7.3,25.1,25.2,31.1 and also get 9.1 and 9.2 with some glitches but stable enough to watch.
Hopefully this continues(no leaves on trees yet) Mostly interested in CBS and Fox come football season:)
The antenna is rooftop mounted uhf directional only
Regards
Owenf

Roger Lococco

04-11-08, 08:05 PM

thanks Owen and shadowcaster, Owen's results with his cecb seem to confirm my theory that the better 6th gen tuners in these boxes, coupled with a very good outdoor antenna, are able to achieve very good reception over longer distances than older generation atsc tuners, such as my RS Accurian.

Packeteers

04-16-08, 11:21 PM

I just installed a Winegard HD7084 Roof Antenna
with an 80' run of RG6U Quad-Shielded, no amp,
to a new DS*DTX9900 OTA/DTV Converter Box.
Only 8 miles from most Transmitters, but suffer
from multipath from nearby apartment buildings.
Hopefully typing all this up will help someone :o

? = strange channel I may remove
A = wall papered channel with unique Audio only

CH.X IDENTITY RF SIGNAL*STRENGTH
2-1 WCBS-HD 56 90
3-1 ? 3 60
4-1 WNBC-DT 28 90
4-2 WX PLUS 28 90
4-4 WNBC4.4 28 90
5-1 WNYW-DT 44 80
5-2 WWOR-DT 44 80
7-1 WABC-HD 45 83
7-2 WABC+ 45 83
7-3 WABCNOW 45 83
9-1 WWOR-DT 38 75
9-2 WNYW-DT 38 83
11-1 THECW11 ? 12 30
11-1 THECW11 33 90
11-2 CW11SD ? 12 30
11-2 CW11SD 33 90
13-1 WNET-HD 61 75
13-2 WNET-SD 61 75
13-3 WNET-13 61 75
25-1 WNYE1 24 90
25-2 WNYE2 24 90
29-1 WFME-DT 29 41
29-2 WFME-FM A 29 41
29-3 FR-WEST A 29 41
29-2 KEAR-FM A 29 41
29-2 F.L.#1 A 29 41
29-2 F.L.#2 A 29 41
29-2 67SUB A 29 41
29-2 92SUB A 29 41
29-2 NOAA A 29 41
29-2 FUTURE A 29 41
31-1 ION 30 72
31-2 QUBO 30 72
31-3 IONLIFE 30 72
31-4 WORSHIP 30 72
36-3 ? 36 20
41-1 WXTVDT 40 83
47-1 WNJU-DT 36 30
50-1 WNJN-DT 51 41
50-3 NJN-3 51 41
50-4 NJN-4 51 41
50-5 NJN-HD 51 41
58-1 WNJB-DT 8 54
58-4 NJN-4 8 54
58-5 NJN-DH 8 54
63-1 WMBC-D1 18 80
63-2 WMBC-D2 18 80
63-3 WMBC-D3 18 70
63-4 WMBC-D4 18 70
68-1 WFUT-DT 53 90

over the next few days I may pivot my antenna
another 5-10° from West to North, and should my
reception numbers change significantly I will post
and update here. I'm hoping I can turn many of
those 70's into 90's without dropping current 90's,
or having to add a quality power injected pre-amp.
over 67 is great reception, 34-66 is still watchable.

Trip in VA

04-17-08, 12:54 AM

You helped me! =)

Let me, in turn, help you. I'll translate some of these with the ? after them for you.

3-1 ? 3 60

Does anything decode on this one at all? I think this would be WBQM-LP, which at last report was a Religious station.

11-1 THECW11 ? 12 30
11-1 THECW11 33 90
11-2 CW11SD ? 12 30
11-2 CW11SD 33 90

After 9/11, WPIX received an STA to operate at low power on channel 12. They are continuing to do so despite having their full-power operating up on channel 33. I gather there are multipath-caused signal problems in some places that the weaker channel 12 signal is able to overcome.

36-3 ? 36 20

WNJU has their transmitter over on First Mountain in New Jersey, and to help get their signal to Long Island, they have a highly-directional repeater in the city. You're receiving one of the two channels 36 strong enough to decode and map to channel 47-1. The other is showing up here as 36-3. What a mess. I imagine neither one decodes very well.

I'd be curious to see if you get anything else as you turn your antenna north.

Could you tell me what programming is on 11-2? It's one question I just cannot seem to answer.

Thanks so much. =)

- Trip

SnellKrell

04-17-08, 06:00 AM

Trip in VA -

Ever since The Tube (Music Network) went belly up, 11.2 in New York City has been used to rebroadcast 11.1 in SD. What a waste of bandwidth, but I expect its being
used a "place holder" to insure future carriage on cable systems.

jaypb

04-17-08, 07:01 AM

You helped me! =)

Let me, in turn, help you. I'll translate some of these with the ? after them for you.

3-1 ? 3 60

Does anything decode on this one at all? I think this would be WBQM-LP, which at last report was a Religious station.

It's possible that 3-1 is KYW-DT out of Philly (CBS affiliate). I was able to get this channel *occasionally) on SI a few times.

Trip in VA

04-17-08, 08:41 AM

It's possible that 3-1 is KYW-DT out of Philly (CBS affiliate). I was able to get this channel *occasionally) on SI a few times.

I would agree, except that he has it listed as physical channel 3 and not 26 (the two numbers in his right column are physical channel number and signal strength).

And thanks for the info on 11-2. I asked because I know Tribune-owned WPHL-DT in Philadelphia is airing a sports network on 17-2, and figured maybe WPIX was doing the same, but had no way to tell.

- Trip

jaypb

04-17-08, 09:07 AM

I would agree, except that he has it listed as physical channel 3 and not 26 (the two numbers in his right column are physical channel number and signal strength).

And thanks for the info on 11-2. I asked because I know Tribune-owned WPHL-DT in Philadelphia is airing a sports network on 17-2, and figured maybe WPIX was doing the same, but had no way to tell.

- Trip

Ah, now I see the "RF" in the column heading---sorry, I missed that when I first read it.

What sports net is Philly WPHL airing on 17-2? I haven't turned my antenna towards Philly in quite sometime, but if they are airing *live* games I may be so inclined to do so to check it out :D

Trip in VA

04-17-08, 09:22 AM

Ah, now I see the "RF" in the column heading---sorry, I missed that when I first read it.

What sports net is Philly WPHL airing on 17-2? I haven't turned my antenna towards Philly in quite sometime, but if they are airing *live* games I may be so inclined to do so to check it out :D

"WCSN." World Championship Sports Network or something like this. Their website isn't too helpful.

- Trip

personalt

04-21-08, 12:58 PM

I live in Weehawken two streets from the water near where BLVD each turns to go along the water as it comes up from the tunnel.

I am using a GE antenna that looks very similar to this Radio Shack model
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-hdtv-uhf-outdoor-antenna--pi-2253765.html

With hdhomerun as my tunner gettig signals in the 70s, but that still gives me a somewhat jumpy picture.

If I hold the antenna up about 6 feet I get a good signal which seems to follow reason as if I get up 6 feet I hit a decent path between the trees.

My question is... at 2.2 miles I would expect to be pulling near 100% I would think...

do I swap the antenna or is there some sort of tripod I can buy? I know I can build something but if I could by something under $30 that goes up 5' I would be happy.

Any suggestions?

jaypb

04-21-08, 01:31 PM

Recently I've noticed on several different CBS OTA recordings that I'm getting loud popping noises spread out sporadically through different shows (CSI Miami, CSI NY, Without a Trace) and was curious if anyone else with either of these D* receivers is noticing the same thing ?!?! I've heard the crackling/popping on 2 different D* receivers which are each hooked up to different surround sound systems.

The pops are evident when I'm listening via my surround sound systems---but I didn't check to see if they showed up when I had the audio coming out of the TV speakers vs. the A/V receiver.

I was just curious if it was a D* receiver issue, an OTA issue or a 5.1 surround sound issue.

shadowcaster

04-21-08, 02:24 PM

jaypb

04-21-08, 03:39 PM

I believe it's a CBS issue as I get the same noises on Fios, but no other channel.

Cool. Thanks for the response. I've been meaning to post this for about a month, but kept forgetting!

rcodey

04-21-08, 09:53 PM

I've been getting the same popping noises in the surround sound audio on CBS shows with Comcast in northern New Jersey.

lostdvd

04-22-08, 11:38 AM

O2C

04-23-08, 10:12 AM

After months of different antennas and positioning, I've virtually given up trying to receive channel 2 and 7 digital. I seriously believe it is my location that isn't allowing me to pick up these channels. I get the other local digital channels with no problem.
Here are some questions (and pure speculation). Aren't those two the strongest transmitting stations? And aren't there other stations broadcasting from the same location? Assuming you are getting full signal strength on stations you are receiving, have you tried throwing a RF attenuator onto the line and seeing if that helps any?

opoulin77

04-25-08, 12:03 AM

Hello, it is my first post. Great forum!:)

I am planning to buy an HDTV and considering getting my digital signal OTA. I live at least than 2 miles from the ESB and have an unobstructed view of the tower. There are not many higher buildings than my apt around. From what I read, it seems to me that I am in a good situation for OTA signal. Is it a sure shot, or there is still a possibility that something will affect my reception? Also, any views on the type of antenna I should get?

Thank you for your views

POWERFUL

04-25-08, 11:13 AM

Yeah you should be fine, but get a good antenna like the Silver Sensor (available at Circuit City) and that should cut the multipath you may receive dramatically.

the-sloth

04-25-08, 05:52 PM

anyone else seeing erratic behavior with WCBS-DT this evening? my signals are fluctuating tremendously right now.

mw390

04-25-08, 06:20 PM

the-sloth

04-25-08, 06:55 PM

anyone else seeing erratic behavior with WCBS-DT this evening? my signals are fluctuating tremendously right now.

nevermind... my DB2 just needed to be re-aligned.

Packeteers

04-25-08, 09:53 PM

I took my reception list and compared to the TV Guide New York City Area Broadcast listing for my zip code;
http://www.tvguide.com/Listings/default.aspx
I noticed several low or no signal strength omissions while my roof antenna is pointed West NorthWest of me.

23.1 WNJSDT Trenton, NJ (Southwest of me, over 50 miles)
23.4
23.5
54.1 WTBYDT Fishkill, NY (North of me, under 10 miles)
54.4
55.1 WLNY-DT Ryebrook, NY (North of me, under 10 miles)
55.2
67.1 WFTY-DT Newark, NJ (West of me, under 20 miles)

I'm curious to know if these channels actually broadcast from their incorporated locations, or an alternate location.
I'm puzzled why I'm not getting 67.1 which is close and lined up directionally enough to be picked up by my high gain antenna.

Something else is puzzling to me. These stations seem surprisingly low powered;

13.1 WNETHD (RF 61)
13.2 WNETK
13.3 WNETDT3

my antenna is pointed right at them and I'm only 8 miles away, yet the signal strength I get is about a third of ch 2.1 (RF 56)
which is nearby on the RF frequency scale. could this local PBS station simply be conserving broadcasting power until 2009,
or could they soon be moving to a new RF frequency?

another odd thing about 13.1 is their programming does not coincide with Analog RF channel 13's daily broadcasts.
for example, if you want to watch BBC World News at 6pm on PBS, you must tune it in on their old Analog channel.

SnellKrell

04-25-08, 10:00 PM

Packeteers -

WNET-HD and its sub-channels currently broadcast on the highest frequency in the metropolitan area and at the lowest power. Each situation can make reception difficult.

When the transition takes place, 2/09, the station will digitally broadcast on channel 13 at the highest power the FCC will currently allow.

Things "should" get better.

Trip in VA

04-25-08, 10:00 PM

WNET-DT is only doing 12 kW as opposed to the 349 kW WCBS-DT is doing.

I don't know where those other channel listings are coming from, they're COMPLETELY wrong. WFTY-DT and WLNY-DT come from towers out on Long Island. WTBY-DT comes from up near Newburgh. WNJS is down in Hammonton and is seen near Philly. It's on the same channel as WLIW-DT and you have no hope of getting it.

WFTY-DT completely duplicates WFUT-DT 68-1. WNJS-DT completely duplicates WNJN-DT 50-1 and WNJB-DT 58-1.

That leaves WLNY-DT and WTBY-DT, which you probably will not be able to receive where you are. The former would probably be worth watching, but unless you really like religious programming, the latter isn't worth it either.

Also from WTBY-DT's tower site is WRNN-DT, which shows mostly infomercials but has an all anime subchannel. I wouldn't expect you to receive either one.

- Trip

Packeteers

04-26-08, 08:27 AM

Snell & Tripp, thank you for addressing my concerns so well.

Tripp, if I wanted to tune into 55.1 WLNY-DT from my zip code;
55 WLNY-DT RIVERHEAD NY 50miles 75° from RabbitEasrs.info
does this only apply to Analog transmissions or DTV as well?
I doubt I will bother, so this question is just idle curiosity :o

On a related topic: I'd like to buy a cheap >$10 compass since I'll
be doing at least 3 Roof Antennas for relatives over the next year.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000093ILT
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000FETBBA
what is your opinion of these water borne dial plastic case models.
I assume the larger one is better for antenna work. I would prefer
buying the smaller one so I can also use it for my hiking navigation.

Suggestion for RabbitEars: you might want to try to superimpose
a compass wallpaper behind the transmission direction graphics;

http://www.decrete.com/assets/images/products/stencils/compass.gif

Trip in VA

04-26-08, 09:35 AM

Snell & Tripp, thank you for addressing my concerns so well.

Tripp, if I wanted to tune into 55.1 WLNY-DT from my zip code;
55 WLNY-DT RIVERHEAD NY 50miles 75° from RabbitEasrs.info
does this only apply to Analog transmissions or DTV as well?
I doubt I will bother, so this question is just idle curiosity :o

They turned their analog signal off a while ago. WLNY-DT is a digital-only station on channel 57. They remap to 55-1 still though, as far as I know.

Suggestion for RabbitEars: you might want to try to superimpose
a compass wallpaper behind the transmission direction graphics.

It's a good idea. I'll talk to my programmer about it next time he's available.

Glad you found my site useful! I found your listing of the station call signs from a while back useful in the New York listings. =)

- Trip

jpr281

04-26-08, 09:34 PM

Just noticed that WPIX is now doing the 10 o'clock news in HD. I wonder if the morning show will follow suit on Monday?

OldSenileGuy

04-27-08, 11:45 PM

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, but I have a question about my cable box from TWC, the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HD.

I live in a studio apartment, and crazy as it sounds, the click-click-clicking sound of the DVR constantly writing to the hard drive, even when the cable box is off, is annoying when I'm trying to sleep.

Is there any way to put it into a kind of sleep mode where it only writes to the HDD if I've specifically set something to record? I know that my current method, pulling the plug out every night, can't be good for the hard drive. And also when I do that, if I forget to plug it back in in the morning I don't get to record any of my stuff I'd set to record during the day. Is there a way to temporarily stop recording of all live stuff?

jpr281

04-28-08, 03:04 AM

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, but I have a question about my cable box from TWChttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13742882#post13742882

OldSenileGuy

04-28-08, 08:55 AM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13742882#post13742882

****, I knew that. Thanks.

ukitali

04-28-08, 12:02 PM

I'm getting all my basic HD OTA channels except 4.1 and 13.1. I live within a couple of miles of the ESB facing north on the second floor. At the moment I'm just using rabbit ears. Is there any other antenna I can get that would pick up those two channels? The cable on my current antenna is pretty short so I really can't move it around too much. Would getting an amplified antenna help?

SnellKrell

04-28-08, 12:25 PM

Being located "within a couple of miles of the ESB," I wouldn't recommend an amplified antenna - could overload your tuner.

Would try the Silver Sensor indoor antenna. Cirucuit City stores usually have them made by Philips.

Channel 13-DT is very, very difficult to receive.

You probably will have a good shot getting 4-DT.

Good luck!

mw390

04-29-08, 08:07 AM

I get 13.1 out in Levittown 99% of the time 25 miles east of ESB. I use CM4228 antenna and CM7777 amp

POWERFUL

04-29-08, 10:54 AM

wow then you must be in it's narrow reception range on LI.

vkristof

04-29-08, 05:14 PM

wow then you must be in it's narrow reception range on LI.

I also get WNET-DT, a few miles north of LIE exit 60. I have similar equipment to mw390 and then split the amplified signal between a VIP 622 and an Avermedia M780 tuner.

I recorded two hours of "Carrier" a couple of nights ago. I did not notice any signal problems during playback.

POWERFUL

04-29-08, 09:21 PM

I'll now have to try to receive it myself in the next few days then. I'm a few miles north of LIE exit 53.

tryin2search

04-29-08, 10:09 PM

jpr281

05-04-08, 03:07 PM

WPIX hasn't switched to HD for the Mets game. It should be in HD.

EDIT: Finally made the switch at 4:23.

the-sloth

05-04-08, 03:24 PM

WPIX hasn't switched to HD for the Mets game. It should be in HD.

just switched over.... phew.

the-sloth

05-04-08, 04:05 PM

SnellKrell

05-04-08, 04:10 PM

Thursday, May 1st WNET 13 DT will begin simulcasting its standard programming on its digital channel. Currently they rebroadcast the national PBS HD feed on their digital channel. What isn't clear to me is whether they will have 13's regular programming as a subchannel or it will be the main channel with upconverted programs and native HD when available.

The simulcasting will have the same programming on 13-Analogue and
13.1-Digital.

I saw "This Old House" and it was wide screen, but didn't appear to be HD.

"Keeping Up Appearance" was shown in 4x3.

The simulcasting will cause less confusion and will allow the transition to
Channel 13-DT next February to be more logical and easier for the audience.

SnellKrell

05-04-08, 04:22 PM

Just noticed that 11.2 is no longer a SD simulcast of 11.1.

11.2 is now carrying LATV.

http://www.latv.com

the-sloth

05-04-08, 04:45 PM

i'm seeing sporadic drops during todays game on CW.... every so often the signal just shoots down to 0% and then pops back up. i'm only like 20 blocks from ESB and i have clear line of sight. my signal strength is pegged at 100% normally and i've never really had any problems like this. anyone else seeing these little blips?

FYI- the HD feed of WPIX that directv provides is also experiencing sporadic blips.

dturturro

05-04-08, 06:28 PM

i'm seeing sporadic drops during todays game on CW.... every so often the signal just shoots down to 0% and then pops back up. i'm only like 20 blocks from ESB and i have clear line of sight. my signal strength is pegged at 100% normally and i've never really had any problems like this. anyone else seeing these little blips?

I saw a similar issue on my Dish-942. I switched to my Dish-622 and didn't see any other issues. I don't know if it's the frequency, power or quality of signal but it seems that CW has more issues than any of the other major networks.

the-sloth

05-04-08, 08:07 PM

I saw a similar issue on my Dish-942. I switched to my Dish-622 and didn't see any other issues. I don't know if it's the frequency, power or quality of signal but it seems that CW has more issues than any of the other major networks.

i tried my HR20, H20 and the tuner on my pioneer pdp set... all were doing the same thing. odd.

StudioTech

05-05-08, 12:25 AM

Just noticed that 11.2 is no longer a SD simulcast of 11.1.

11.2 is now carrying LATV.

http://www.latv.com

In case anyone wanted more info:

LATV Inks Deal with Tribune Broadcasting
Bilingual Entertainment Network to Air on The CW Affiliates’ Digital Channels

By Michael Malone -- Broadcasting & Cable, 4/29/2008 12:30:00 PM

Bilingual entertainment network LATV is partnering with Tribune Broadcasting to air LATV on the digital channels of The CW affiliates in New York, Chicago and Dallas.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6555754.html?industryid=47171

UnnDunn

05-05-08, 08:20 AM

What happened to TheTube? It used to be on 11-2.

SnellKrell

05-05-08, 08:35 AM

What happened to TheTube? It used to be on 11-2.

It went belly-up!

the-sloth

05-08-08, 01:00 PM

anyone catch this....

WNBC Launching 24/7 News Channel
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2008/05/08/2008-05-08_wnbc_launching_247_news_channel.html

The article states

The yet-unnammed 24-hour service will launch either late this year or early next and occupy the digital cable channel WNBC 4.4.

is it safe to assume that they are misusing the "digital cable" bit and mean that it's going on their digital transmitter at 4.4?

EDIT: just found this article in times.... it makes no mention of it being available OTA and only says that local cable providers will have access to it. anyone have any solid information on this?

The 24-hour news will be available to customers who have digital service on cable systems in the New York area, including Time Warner, Cablevision and Comcast. It is expected to begin in November.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/arts/television/08wnbc.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

shadowcaster

05-08-08, 01:04 PM

is it safe to assume that they are misusing the "digital cable" bit and mean that it's going on their digital transmitter at 4.4?

I'd say yes. Now if NBC would only bring their transmit power up to the FCC allowable, so that us poor folks in Suffolk county could receive the damn signal !!

StudioTech

05-08-08, 01:05 PM

Well 4.4 is already on most of the cable systems in the area so all they'll be doing is replace the programming that's on there now.

the-sloth

05-08-08, 01:18 PM

Well 4.4 is already on most of the cable systems in the area so all they'll be doing is replace the programming that's on there now.

yeah.... i'm not worried about it being on cable. i don't subscribe to cable, i'm just wondering if they are dumping the current programming on 4.4 (which is junk anyhow) and replacing it with this new local news channel. i don't normally watch WNBC, but this would definitely be nice since i don't have access to NY1.

StudioTech

05-08-08, 01:21 PM

From the articles I've read, they're dumping what's on 4.4 now and replacing it with the newschannel.

the-sloth

05-08-08, 01:24 PM

From the articles I've read, they're dumping what's on 4.4 now and replacing it with the newschannel.

nice. regarding the articles i posted.... it's comical how clueless these people are regarding what digital television channels are available. the article in the Daily News and the Post both reference '4.4' and call it a digital cable channel.

jaypb

05-08-08, 02:14 PM

For me, the kicker is seeing the banner moving across the bottom of the screen telling people that all these subchannels are available on digital cable, seeing the weather segment and the posting on screen of how there's a digital channel available with weather reports....with a mention of "on digital cable channel"...within EACH cable system.....BUT I HAVE YET TO SEE ANY OF OUR LOCAL CHANNELS SAY, "Hi there stupid viewer---did you know that you can tune into subchannel x.2.3.4 on your BRAND SPANKING NEW digital TV you just bought....or on your BRAND NEW digital converter that you just bought....and watch our programming"?

Nah, I guess there are no viewers in the tri-state area who are "OTA" only viewers.....must be all cable subs watching the locals out here.....:D

I think it's pretty ironic that the government is forcing everyone to "move" to the digital domain....and the local stations are running banners on the bottom telling you to go to www. xxxxx.com to get more info on the digital transition....yet they NEVER mention word one to their viewers that they CAN tune into these new stations WITHOUT having to pay a dime to cable/satellite services.

Funny... or maybe I've just missed those segments......:o

StudioTech

05-08-08, 02:19 PM

You're right. Every time WNBC mentions Weather Plus during their weather reports, they only mention the cable systems that carry it, and AFAIK have never said that you can also pick it up OTA on 4.2

the-sloth

05-08-08, 02:36 PM

yeah... one would think think that these stations would do everything possible to let viewers know that they don't need to be held hostage by the cable company just to get access to their channel.

jaypb

05-08-08, 02:50 PM

...man, it doesn't seem that I complained about it _THAT_ long ago...but time flies when you're having fun..... :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9141467&highlight=weather#post9141467

radio_dave

05-09-08, 01:11 PM

I’ve connected a simple Radio Shack V/U/F yagi antenna, roof mounted, to a Magnavox DA converter TB100MW9, no amp. The UHF section looks to be about 12 elements. I am in Milford, CT, about 55 miles from ESB… 180’ ASL. I have tried to make this similar to “Packeteers” format, posted back in April, to make it easy to compare.

CH.X IDENTITY RF SIGNAL*STRENGTH
2-1 WCBS-DT 56/98
4-1, 4-2, 4-4 WNBC-DT 28/86
5-1, 5-2 WNYW-DT 44/90
7-1, 7-2, 7-3 WABC-DT 45/96
9-1, 9-2 WWOR-DT 38/80
10-1 WTNH-DT 10/32
11-1, 11-2 WPIX-DT 33/80
13-1,13-2,13-3 WNET-DT 61/70
21-2,21-3,21-4 WLIW-DT 22/34
25-1, 25-2 WNYE-DT 24/94
31-1 31-2 31-3 31-4 WPXN-DT 30/90
41-1 WXTV-DT 40/86
68-1 WFUT-DT 53/82

Previously, I was using a less directional attic antenna, which enabled me to additionally receive DTV’s from New London 26, Bridgeport 43, Bridgeport 49, Riverhead 55, New Haven 59, Smithtown 67. Unfortunately with that set up, WNBC-DT and WNET-DT wouldn’t come in. Must’ve been too much multipath or something. I haven’t been able to pick up WNJU-DT no matter what. Their analog signal is just fine.

LolaR

05-14-08, 11:18 AM

I really hope I'm not posting on the wrong thread. I just got my DTV converter box and the quality of the channels I do get is gorgeous! However, I lost a bunch of the ones I used to get with just by rabbit ears (grainy, but at least I had PBS then). I'm assuming I need a better antenna to get reception of all channels (and this MUST happen before tomorrow night so I can watch Lost! :)). According to antennaweb.org I need an outdoor small multi-directional antenna. I can't really see myself installing something like that in my rental -- do I really need this? Plus, I'm on the top floor of a 4-story walk-up in a very residential part of Bklyn (not many tall buildings here), so I think that something like an outdoor/rooftop thing would be overkill. Is there such a thing as a great indoor antenna I can just get instead?

Thanks!

Trip in VA

05-14-08, 11:36 AM

The antenna you have is a great VHF antenna, but given that all the digitals are on UHF (above channel 13), you need a UHF antenna of some kind. How do channels 31, 41, and 47 look on analog? Those should be a good indicator of what kind of signal you'll receive; the clearer those are the better.

I recommend you try the Silver Sensor indoor antenna (it's sold under a different name now, something like the PHDTV-1) and see if that helps.

You may not have much luck with WNET-13 though, they're operating at low power until next year, but being as close as you are, it's certainly worth a try. I managed to receive it from my grandparents' house in Fair Lawn NJ with the Silver Sensor.

Also try physically moving your antenna. Turns out that even pointed in the same direction, just changing your antenna's location can be enough to allow some stations to come in.

Good luck; let us know how it turns out. =)

- Trip

Roger Lococco

05-15-08, 07:11 PM

I purchased a PHDTV3 today from Target, surprisingly it works better than the classic Silver Sensor, I was wary of getting it because of the negative reviews on Amazon, etc.

spanky28

05-20-08, 04:44 PM

I purchased a PHDTV3 today from Target, surprisingly it works better than the classic Silver Sensor, I was wary of getting it because of the negative reviews on Amazon, etc.

Did you make this purchase at a brick & mortar Target location? If so, which one in NYC & how much was it?

In the market for a new antenna. Currently using the Silver Sensor with a Samsung DTB-H260F in 11691, which is 26 miles SE of ESB. Oddly enough, can only lock into NBC during crappy weather like the last few days. Never able to pick up WNET. I'm planning to pair the old Silver Sensor with a new Zenith DTT900 CECB, which works like a charm in the other bedroom (go figure).

Before seeing your post, I was about to order a DB2 and mount it indoors somehow.

TIA for any additional info.

Roger Lococco

05-20-08, 09:39 PM

I got mine at the Target in Elmhurst (Queens Place Mall) for 39.99, I'm not sure if I can actually recommend the PHDTV3, it works if you have a TON of patience, for instance I was getting extremely frustrated moving it around trying to find the sweet spot for WNBC-DT, 'til I luckily found the only spot where the signal was strong and stable.
The only reason I got it was because my classic Silver Sensor fell one time too many and broke because of the heavy rg6 cable attached, the SS is said to be very fragile internally, especially the f connector, I took it apart, it is extremely cheap and crappy inside. Circuit City doesn't seem to carry the original SS anymore, I would definitely have purchased another one if they were available.
Having said that, the PHDTV3 works fairly well, and is almost as good as the SS, in my particular location, and a million times better than any amplified rabbit ear/uhf loop combos, which don't work at all here. Essentially if you're getting only so-so reception with the SS, the PHDTV3 won't improve things much. The amplifier helps, but only marginally.
A DB2 is UHF only, you'll need an antenna capable of receiving VHF after the 2009 shutoff, some NYC stations will move to VHF, namely WABC, WPIX, and WNET, to their actual channel numbers (7, 11, and 13).
Your best bet, since you're 26 miles out, is an outdoor antenna.

tamahome02000

05-20-08, 09:57 PM

I'm in mid jersey, but most of the channels are from ny. I'm just using the radio shack 'enterprise' remote control indoor antenna. Wish I could get channel 13. I like Tim Hawkins & John Tesh on the Worship channel. :)

2.1 wcbs-hd 1080i (56)
4.1 wnbc-dt 1080i (28)
4.2 wx plus
4.4 wnbc4.4
5.1 wnyw-dt 720p (44)
5.2 wwor-dt
7.1 wabc-hd 720p (45)
7.2 wabc+
7.3 wabcnow
9.1 wwor dt 720p (38)
9.2 wnyw dt
11.1 thecw11 1080i (33)
11.2 cw11sd
25.1 wnye1 (24)
25.2 wnye2
31.1 ion (30)
31.2 qubo
31.3 ionlife
31.4 worship
41.1 wxtv dt (40)
47.1 wnju dt (36)
50.1 wnjn-dt (51)
52.1 wnjt-dt (43)
58.1 wnjb-dt (8)
58.3 njn-3
58.4 njn-4
58.5 njn-hd 1080i prime time only
63.1 wmbc-d1 (18)
63.2 wmbc-d2
63.3 wmbc-d3
63.4 wmbc-d4
68.1 wfut-dt (53)

Njn seems to float around on different frequencies. (8, 43, 51...)

spanky28

05-21-08, 10:48 AM

A DB2 is UHF only, you'll need an antenna capable of receiving VHF after the 2009 shutoff, some NYC stations will move to VHF, namely WABC, WPIX, and WNET, to their actual channel numbers (7, 11, and 13).
Your best bet, since you're 26 miles out, is an outdoor antenna.

Thanks for your input. You made some really good points. However, an outdoor antenna isn't a viable option for me. I think I'm going to roll the dice with a DB2 mounted indoors. When the time comes, I'll combine it with a VHF antenna.

It just bugs me that there's no appropriate "sweet spot" in my room to pick up WNBC on a consistent basis with the Silver Sensor/Samsung DTB-H260F. Yet in the next bedroom over, while testing the newly acquired $20 Zenith DTT900 CECB, I was able to lock on right away with the SS. Maybe I should switch rooms or run my antenna from there! :eek:

FYI, If you're able to return the PHDTV3 at Target, Amazon still carries the SS for half of what you paid for the PHDTV3.

Roger Lococco

05-21-08, 12:20 PM

thanks, a new SS would be great for now, but when 2009 comes, I'd have to go out and try some indoor VHF antennas and use a combiner on them, there is nothing I hate more than trying out antennas and returning them, so I'll hold onto the PHDTV3 for now, and hope it can pick up the VHF stations in the future.

Skyeclad

05-22-08, 11:59 PM

tamahome02000

05-23-08, 12:36 AM

Nbc new york is definitely more dependent on direction. Here's what I receive in 12 different uhf antenna directions:

2.1 wcbs-hd 1080i (56) 3 5 6 7 8 9 10
4.1 wnbc-dt 1080i (28) 5 6 7 8 10 11 12
5.1 wnyw-dt 720p (44) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
7.1 wabc-hd 720p (45) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
9.1 wwor dt 720p (38) 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
11.1 thecw11 1080i (33) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
25.1 wnye1 (24) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
31.1 ion (30) 1 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
38.5 (38?) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 audio only
41.1 wxtv dt (40) 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
47.1 wnju dt (36) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
50.1 wnjn-dt (51) 3 4 5 10
52.1 wnjt-dt (43) 7 8 9
58.1 wnjb-dt (8) vhf
63.1 wmbc-d1 (18) 2 11
68.1 wfut-dt (53) 2 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
(njn has an hd channel in prime time only, on 3 different channels)

hancox

05-23-08, 07:43 AM

Does anyone else notice that WNBC is the worst signal strength/quality of all the major network channels broadcast from the Empire State Building? I live near Bridgeport, CT and use a CM4228 and I get WABC-DT and WNYW-DT nearly perfectly, WCBS is good but not perfect and I'm on the fringe of corruption with WNBC. Is this typical of what some have experienced out on the fringe?

Similar results for me from Monroe, also on a 4228. 99 on CBS and FOX, 90ish on ABC, NBC is iffy.

I actually get better reception on WPIX-DT than WNBC-DT.

And, before you ask, I'm at elevation in Monroe, and actually have LOS to the ESB. :)

SnellKrell

05-23-08, 07:51 AM

tamahome02000

05-23-08, 09:00 AM

What's ERP? Strange, I can't get digital channel 13 at all in mid jersey.

SnellKrell

05-23-08, 09:08 AM

What's ERP? Strange, I can't get digital channel 13 at all in mid jersey.

It's "Effective Radiated Power."

It's not strange that you can't receive Channel 13. Many can't.

The station currently broadcasts on the highest channel allocation of the major stations in the metropolitan area - Channel 61. The higher the channel the more power is need - and 13's power is the lowest of all major stations in the metro area.

Two strikes against you and others being able to receive the station.

Skyeclad

05-23-08, 09:16 AM

Similar results for me from Monroe, also on a 4228. 99 on CBS and FOX, 90ish on ABC, NBC is iffy.

I actually get better reception on WPIX-DT than WNBC-DT.

And, before you ask, I'm at elevation in Monroe, and actually have LOS to the ESB. :)

I am basically at the Merritt Pkway and can only get some reception on channel 4 in one single degree (257) with my HDHR tuner. Almost any deviation from 257 causes loss of signal quality. My cheap Insignia/LG tuner can handle a greater range of direction but unfortunately, that doesn't drive my HTPC setup.

This wasn't always the case. I used to get decent signal quality in the Fall/Winter. Perhaps signal quality is degraded due to leaves on the trees?

tamahome02000

05-23-08, 09:20 AM

SnellKrell

05-23-08, 09:30 AM

Also, according to antennaweb, you need a medium directional antenna (red) for nbc, so there's something different about it.

The rest are small multidirectional (yellow), except 13 which is medium multidirectional (green). It also has 9 in secaucus, nj and 13 in newark, nj.

Take this site with a lot of grains of salt. It has a lot of old and just plain incorrect information.

Channel 9 is licensed to Secaucus, NJ and 13 is licensed to Newark - that has absolutely nothing to do with the location of its transmission.

Both transmit from the same antenna atop the Empire State Building!

hancox

05-23-08, 10:25 AM

I'd suggest using tvfool - I've found their maps and rating to be VERY accurate, and also informative (i.e. I'd need a 200' tower to get WFSB-DT due to terrain and their tower location - LOL)

OWENF

05-23-08, 10:54 AM

It's just like real estate - it's location, location, location!

Power also plays a role, but 4's ERP should be more than adequate.

2,4,7,9,11 and 13 all currently transmit from the ESB using Channel 2's
non-directional antenna.

As of February 2009 so much will change.

Is 5 still on the ESB as well ?
Having a tough time pulling it in but that may be due to the other station on 44 (wmcm atlantic city).
2 & 7 are good and 9 is fair so I get WNYW on 9.2 but would love 5.1
come the Fall.
Regards
Owenf

SnellKrell

05-23-08, 04:23 PM

Yes, 5 is still on the ESB using its own antenna and with the highest power in the
NYC Metro area.

The station's deal with the FCC to "gain" all that power was to transmit using a directional pattern to specifically avoid interference with 44 in A.C.

On 9.2, yes, you're getting NY digital Channel 5 but it's only Standard Definition!

Skyeclad

05-23-08, 05:10 PM

Similar results for me from Monroe, also on a 4228. 99 on CBS and FOX, 90ish on ABC, NBC is iffy.

I actually get better reception on WPIX-DT than WNBC-DT.

And, before you ask, I'm at elevation in Monroe, and actually have LOS to the ESB. :)

One other question, did you notice better reception in the Fall/Winter which got progressively worse as Spring arrived?

tamahome02000

05-23-08, 05:25 PM

I'd suggest using tvfool - I've found their maps and rating to be VERY accurate, and also informative (i.e. I'd need a 200' tower to get WFSB-DT due to terrain and their tower location - LOL)

Nice website! http://tvfool.com

n2ubp

05-27-08, 01:03 PM

One other question, did you notice better reception in the Fall/Winter which got progressively worse as Spring arrived?

The moisture in foliage, tree leaves, etc. attenuates UHF signals

spanky28

05-28-08, 09:52 AM

I think I'm going to roll the dice with a DB2 mounted indoors.

My DB2 came in yesterday. Mounted it on my wall inside my bedroom, fired up my DTB-H260F & eagerly anticipated all the glorious channels I will now be receiving that I didn't with my Silver Sensor. After the scan, I was disappointed to find out that I'm still not able to receive WNBC & WNET.

C'est la vie. Will box up the DB2 and ship it back to Amazon.

Off-topic, but on the other side of the coin, after many years I canceled my analog cable tv service last week with Time Warner Cable. In the past, I wasn't able to receive any channels with the DTB-260HF's QAM tuner. Out of curiosity yesterday, I did another scan & am now able to receive a glorious selection of channels via QAM! I guess they removed the analog "filter" on my line.

POWERFUL

05-28-08, 12:04 PM

kousikb

05-28-08, 03:26 PM

I am about 33 miles away from ESB. I do get WNBC consistently in all weather. But I had to struggle to find out the sweet spot with my indoor antenna. I don't get WNET at all in my current place. In my previous apartment (26 miles away from ESB), I used to get WNET occasionally with my TV's inbuilt tuner. After I got the Zenith DTT900, it used to pull up WNET consistemtly. But in my present location, it no longer pulls it consistently. Thus, I am in the process of building two UHF antenna (hoverman and the CM4221 clone - 4 bay) with maximal gains around channel 50, so that it can get WNET. I figured that after the digital transition, I will need to build a different antenna to have the maximal gain shifted to VHF-Hi and UHF instead of high UHF. Lets see how it works out. Also, I have read many reviews that CM4228 are far far better than DB8/DB4/DB2. So you may want to try that in indoor setup. If you are DIY person, you may want to try different 4-bay setups/hoverman before taking a plunge on a commercial built 4-bay/8-bay antenna. You can get most of the stuffs for building antenna in your local lowes/home depot within $10.

spanky28

05-28-08, 05:40 PM

Try to move the antenna around your place and see if you can then pick up 13 or 4 digital before sending it back. I have an outdoor mounted amped DB4 antenna 36 miles out from the ESB and I pick up 4 digital with about 60-70 even with the foliage around me.

After reading your post, I unpacked the DB2 & armed with a 12' coax cable, I spent 30 minutes positioning it in different spots in my bedroom to no avail.

An outdoor, amped antenna might be the solution, but that's not feasible for me at the moment.

Thanks anyway.

POWERFUL

05-28-08, 10:41 PM

I lived in a basement apartment in Flushing 2 years ago and got all the digitals with my Radioshack 15-1880 antenna all the channels. It's an amped indoor antenna and I still have it, if you want it PM me.

tamahome02000

05-29-08, 03:17 PM

In case you're pining for digital channel 13:

http://www.thirteen.org/about/digital

Please note: Some viewers may still have trouble receiving Thirteen DTV before February 17, 2009 – even with a dual-antenna and a converter box. This is due to the reduced-power transmitter Thirteen has been using since the destruction of the World Trade Center. If you cannot receive Thirteen DTV, you can watch the non-digital Channel Thirteen on an old-style analog television set, or by using a converter box with an analog pass-through feature, until February 17, 2009, when Thirteen will switch to a high-power DTV transmitter that will reach everyone in the viewing area.

hancox

06-02-08, 07:35 AM

...or just fire up WLIW-DT as an HD channel... (sigh)

SnellKrell

06-02-08, 08:28 AM

...or just fire up WLIW-DT as an HD channel... (sigh)

Which would make perfect sense since 13 owns WLIW!

There used to be a channel 21.1 which was HD.

I imagine for the sake of economy, that station was shut down.

I would have thought with the difficulty that the audience has had
with receiving 13.1 O-T-A, that WNET's management wouldn't have
been that quick to adandon 21.1.

But that was not the case.

Trip in VA

06-02-08, 04:27 PM

Speaking of WLIW-DT, I wonder if (and if so, when) WNET plans to move it to the ESB or possibly Freedom Tower. Channel 21 from that location will be a killer signal in all directions; nothing to cause interference to it. I can't imagine them not doing it, considering they'd gain all those viewers in New Jersey and the Yonkers area and others...

- Trip

StudioTech

06-02-08, 05:22 PM

Being that WLIW is licensed to Garden City, would they even be allowed to move it to the ESB? Or does one not have anything to do with the other?

Trip in VA

06-02-08, 05:27 PM

the-sloth

06-03-08, 12:35 AM

2, 4, 9, 11, and 13 are all down right now for me. 5 & 7 are coming in very very weak (i'm like 20 blocks from ESB and usually have 100% lock on all of the locals). the D* HD locals for NYC seem to be offline as well (MPEG4 as well as MPEG2). anyone know what's going on?

Straphanger

06-03-08, 12:52 AM

Yeah I noticed this too just now. All channels except 5 and 7 are down for me. At first I thought my antenna fell over or my new TV tuner card was faulty but I think it's just overnight maintenance at the ESB. As long as they come back in the morning...it's all good.

tamahome02000

06-03-08, 01:31 AM

Same here.

Still can't receive 13.1 (61). Grrr. Tvfool says I should be able to.

the-sloth

06-03-08, 07:03 AM

everything seems to be back online now. the only difference i see is that WCBS seems to be weaker than it was before. anyone else notice a drop in signal on WCBS?

SnellKrell

06-03-08, 07:34 AM

They'd certainly be allowed. The FCC requires that they put a minimum amount of signal into the city of license, wherever they transmit from, and the ESB would definitely fulfill that requirement. Especially given that WLIW would be the odd man out--people can aim their antennas in one direction and expect to receive everything but WLIW. The FCC generally seems sympathetic to such concerns.

I imagine NJN would fight such a move tooth and nail though, so if WNET wants to move WLIW to, say, Freedom Tower, they should probably start the process soon.

- Trip

A few thoughts concerning WLIW and NJN.

First, it would be great if WLIW were to move to the ESB. I hope it will happen but here's what mitigates such a thing.

Money - with government, industry and viewers feeling the economic pinch, even with federal grants to switch to digital, I doubt if funds would be available for such a move.

Next, even with analog facilities being removed from ESB, things will remain extremely tight. My understanding is that WNET, after 2/09, will be part of a High-VHF combiner sharing an antenna with WABC and WPIX.

Concerning NJN. What a history!

Money prolbems have caused NJN to halve the power level its stations are using.

With NJN fighting the possibility of WLIW moving to ESB, please take into account the history of this entity "selling-out" for financial "pay-offs."

Years ago, WNJN, out of Montclair, NJ, the NJN station closest to the majority of the population in the NY DMA, had channel 50 on what is now Time Warner Cable in NYC. There was no room on the cable system for Food Network.

NJN "sold" its right to be on this huge cable system to Food. The FCC allowed this!

Incredible! It's truly not the station's right to sell its channel allocation, it's really the public's right to see the channel. Talk about mixed priorities. A huge Commisssion blunder. Whom so they think they represent?

Then NJN had its fight with WABC-DT. WABC wanted to move from channel 45 to channel 7, the station's analog allocation.

NJN protested because it has a station, WNJB in New Brunswick, NJ assigned to digital channel 8. Realize that Montclair is the prominent NJN station for the NY DMA, not New Brunswick, but channel 8 is a part of the metro area.

NJN extracted its pound of flesh from WABC and is building a new transmission facility at 4 Times Square - wonder who footed that bill?
Does "Mouse House" sound familiar?

According to FCC rulings - channels 7 and 8 can be assigned to the same market if they are "co-located." That is, their transmission facilities are located together. The Commission considers 4 Times Squre and the ESB and essentially the same location for this purpose.

So, oddly enough, in the NY market, we will have a station from New Brunswick, NJ becoming the primary O-T-A NJN station, not the one from Montclair!

Go figure!

Roger Lococco

06-03-08, 11:38 AM

everything seems to be back online now. the only difference i see is that WCBS seems to be weaker than it was before. anyone else notice a drop in signal on WCBS?
yes, mild picture breakup on the Early Show.

StudioTech

06-03-08, 02:41 PM

According to FCC rulings - channels 7 and 8 can be assigned to the same market if they are "co-located." That is, their transmission facilities are located together. The Commission considers 4 Times Squre and the ESB and essentially the same location for this purpose.

So, oddly enough, in the NY market, we will have a station from New Brunswick, NJ becoming the primary O-T-A NJN station, not the one from Montclair!

Go figure!

I'm curious then why WWOR-DT is staying on 38 and not moving back to 9. Was that by choice or some other reason?

SnellKrell

06-03-08, 02:55 PM

We need the pros here to answer that one.

It may well be that three contiguous channels might be too much, and also there's the cost factor - if you stay where you are, it doesn't cost additional money!

Trip in VA

06-03-08, 07:26 PM

I'm curious then why WWOR-DT is staying on 38 and not moving back to 9. Was that by choice or some other reason?

Too close to WTNH-DT 10 in New Haven, and WBPH-DT 9 in Bethlehem, and WEDH-DT 9 in Norwich.

- Trip

Trip in VA

06-03-08, 07:41 PM

Money - with government, industry and viewers feeling the economic pinch, even with federal grants to switch to digital, I doubt if funds would be available for such a move.

The added viewers of WLIW leads to added exposure leads to more $$$ in the pledge drives. Especially since it'll allow them to show a whole bunch of subchannels to the whole market (WLIW, World, Create, maybe some others in the future).

Next, even with analog facilities being removed from ESB, things will remain extremely tight. My understanding is that WNET, after 2/09, will be part of a High-VHF combiner sharing an antenna with WABC and WPIX.

Yeah, that's why I suggested Freedom Tower. I imagine there'll be lots of space there.

With NJN fighting the possibility of WLIW moving to ESB, please take into account the history of this entity "selling-out" for financial "pay-offs."

Years ago, WNJN, out of Montclair, NJ, the NJN station closest to the majority of the population in the NY DMA, had channel 50 on what is now Time Warner Cable in NYC. There was no room on the cable system for Food Network.

NJN "sold" its right to be on this huge cable system to Food. The FCC allowed this!

Incredible! It's truly not the station's right to sell its channel allocation, it's really the public's right to see the channel. Talk about mixed priorities. A huge Commisssion blunder. Whom so they think they represent?

Wow, I'd never heard that one before. Amazing.

Then NJN had its fight with WABC-DT. WABC wanted to move from channel 45 to channel 7, the station's analog allocation.

NJN protested because it has a station, WNJB in New Brunswick, NJ assigned to digital channel 8. Realize that Montclair is the prominent NJN station for the NY DMA, not New Brunswick, but channel 8 is a part of the metro area.

It matters not what station is "prominent" but WNJB-DT is only 25 miles or so from WABC-DT, and both stations will interfere with each other without WNJB-DT moving to Times Square. The FCC's allowing WABC-DT to return to 7 despite the interference, and I can't imagine it'll be good for either signal.

Also, I was under the impression that WNJB was the "prominent station" given that NJN appears on channel 58 on satellite, or did last time I saw it.

NJN extracted its pound of flesh from WABC and is building a new transmission facility at 4 Times Square - wonder who footed that bill?
Does "Mouse House" sound familiar?

According to FCC rulings - channels 7 and 8 can be assigned to the same market if they are "co-located." That is, their transmission facilities are located together. The Commission considers 4 Times Squre and the ESB and essentially the same location for this purpose.

So, oddly enough, in the NY market, we will have a station from New Brunswick, NJ becoming the primary O-T-A NJN station, not the one from Montclair!

Go figure!

Stations have to be within 14 miles of each other to be considered "co-located." Besides, didn't NJN ask for the Times Square thing way back when ABC was fighting for channel 7? Are you sure ABC is paying for it? (It wouldn't surprise me if they were, given they'll likely have a channel 7 antenna there that channel 8 could be combined into, but I'm just wondering)

Also, please note that the FCC has NOT approved WNJB-DT's attempt to move to Times Square. They've applied and been turned down once (or twice?), but I think they're planning to apply again soon now that the FCC's freeze has been lifted.

- Trip