Update. Channel 5 was breaking up badly going form a green signal to nothing. I changed my UFO antenna from the 8 position to the 7 position and channel 5 no longer breaks up. Channel 7 is still strong but on the 7 position I can only peak it at around 70 and not 80. The other channels I can get are about the same.

Did anyone notice an extreme degradation of signal on channel 11-1 HD (TheCW11)? I'm in Queens, ground floor of a small apt building but about 8 miles from ES with no real tall bldgs between. I usually get between 80-95% on all channels 2-11, 55% on 13. I noticed last nite though that while all my channels were OK, 11-1 was horrible - antenna showed like 75% signal but I had NO audio and picture was extremely pixellated. What gives??

Funny you should mention this. My aunt also in Queens said channel 11 went out for a few hours. Could be they are working on the station of antenna on Empire State building?

Damn, sad to hear that. I actually looked forward to a 24/7 local news operation since Comcast doesn't carry NY1 here.

Don't you have News 12 NJ? We're on Service Electric and we have it.

As some of you may remember I reported about a month ago that all of a sudden my signal strength improved dramatically. NY stations like 11.1 that were about 50% were now over 70%. In fact all stations improved by 10 to 25% and just about every NY station was 80 to 90%! However it was short lived and everything reverted back to the way it was a couple of days later.

Some said it was the change in humidity and temperature that gave me the brief improvement. I thought maybe the wind changed my antenna.

Well Last night everything reverted again to the improved reception. It was snowing and the humidity had to be high and yet the reception was great again. This morning I checked again and it was still great! Sun is shining.

So I think we are back to square one in trying to explain why signal strength is changing!

Has anyone else experienced improved reception this weekend?

Snell/Trip.....I thought there was an explanation and now I give up...

Scratch that on channel 5. It is still randomly breaking up. It is so annoying. I peak it at over 70 with four green bars and then it keeps breaking up to nothing. Can be fine for a few days and then start up again. Can't wait until 2/17/2009 when a lot of people will be calling up there local stations saying they are having problems receiving them. That is the governments fault for not leaving it the way it is now. At least analog works.

As a colleague of mine mentioned earlier, digital TV broadcasts seem to have problems when it’s very windy outside. My antenna is in my attic and I checked on it yesterday and other than being cold up there, there was no visible reason that most HD channels, which come in with a very usable signal (between 50 & 75%) would not stay locked yesterday. It was so bad I had to switch to my DirecTV SD box. His theory is that the breakup is the result of interruptions, in the data stream, such as large limbs and other obstructions interrupting the data flow. I don't believe there is buffering at the receiver end associated with terrestrial reception. That would explain the problem. Channel 2 was truly unwatchable, with breakup of the signal being equal to or a little more than 50% of the time. I know that changes will occur in February but if this is a condition I can expect at 25 miles from Empire using a fringe VHF antenna with pre-amp, the future doesn't look bright for terrestrial digital TV. My analog picture is near perfect on most VHF signals. It isn't a matter of frequency dependence because while the lower VHF signals are quite good, so is WABC and WNET's high VHF picture, while WWOR & WPIX both have ghosts and signals which aren't quite as good. At my old house (about 2 miles away) prior to 9/11 all VHF analog pictures were line quality. Of course that's a comparison which has no weight in this discussion. I used to have separate VHF & UHF antennas each with its own feed line (foam 300 ohm for UHF) and combined them at the TV end into a single RG6 feed into the TV’s 75 ohm input. Along the same lines, WABC's HD was missing completely the other day. At this point I can't understand why the NY digital signals are as unreliable as they appear to be. It's still being treated as a experimental technology and I can't believe the average consumer would be happy to turn on their new TV using an over the air antenna only to find that all of the area PBS channels are running at very reduced power. (Channel 13 & the somewhat more reliable channel 50 aren't receivable at least 80% of the time and I am not very far from the transmitter site and am using a better than average antenna considering my location. Trying to find terrestrial antennas without doing mail order in my area is near impossible). TV stations such as WABC aren't even broadcasting for whatever reason for hours at a time. I have two HD TV's and the same results are experienced on both (and there is nothing wrong with the feed to either set). To repeat an earlier comment I had made, the longer I see what is happening with HD TV at least at this stage the more it reminds me of HD Radio. Stations can't just turn transmitters on and off without providing a backup and expect people to stay with them. I guess we've been spoiled by seamless reception for so long that these interruptions seem almost unacceptable.

Good post. I have a feeling that after February 7, 11 and 13 will be hard to pick up. I was never able to get a high VHF channel. Who knows if the reception would be good or not because right now channel 7 is my strongest station.

I believe a good portion of the reception inconsitencies you've experienced has to do with the extensive work currently going on at the ESB. Put on top of that the frustrating anamolies which are part of digital, UHF transmission in an urban location.

The only "major" digital station not affected by the work is WNYW-DT - not a part of the Combiner system.

You mentioned that WABC-DT was not broadcasting for hours at a time.
The Combiner, which includes WABC-DT, at times has been down - usually late night to
early morning to allow work to be done. Additionally, when the Combiner during daytime hours has been down, WABC-DT switches to its backup facility at the Conde Nast Building, 4 Times Square. It's possible that this switch has not allowed you to receive the station's signal.

February 18th will not be the end all, the answer to all of our problems . It will be a major step, but stations will continue to fine tune easily into fall of 2010.

There is a long time of frustration between now and when, if ever, a new facility is up and running on the Freedom Tower.

Your post only proves my point. WNYW had the same problem as every other HD station yesterday. It too suffered dropouts and the level of ghosting at my location is minimal. Today the signals have been solid. I understand what's happening but I am sure 99% of the audience won't. This is especially true when you consider that these problems didn't exist with analog transmissions. 25 miles from Empire is not all that far away and I have a line of site to NYC. I have no problem opening a 440 repeater located on the building at 1515 Broadway, using a Yeasu VX5 hand held running 5 watts into a antenna with unity gain.

The picture on the 21 channels it receives in NYC is pretty amazing!
sound is great too.
I'm using the RCA connectors with composite video

The 4 of the 6 major networks all come in great since I'm on the 2nd
floor in Western Queens.

I do not get PBS (WNET 13) at 5PM on a weekday. I'll try at primetime.

Zenith 1994year 27" CRT TV (4:3)
DTV converter box Make/Model:
DigitalStream DTX9950 purchased at Radio Shack

Antenna: RadioShack indoor TV Antenna (rabbit ears)
Cat. No. 15-1857

Sure I get some breakup on some stations but with urban dwelling it's expected. As the weather changes so will it. I have rabbit ears so I can make some adjustments but the coaxial cord is short.
I may upgrade my antenna or else first extend the coaxial cable and place the antenna elsewhere in the room. Hey picture looks great and it's paid by commercial advertising and not by me. I only wish I did this 18 months ago when I cancelled cable television.

What I liked best was WCBS 2 news at 5PM had the best resolution so they must be using HD cameras for local news in the field. Not live shots but recorded/edited footage.
I haven't tried primetime yet OTA and am looking forward to it.
When commercials come on I just use the MUTE button.

"Hey picture looks great and it's paid by commercial advertising and not by me."

And then at the end of your pos- "When commercials come on I just use the MUTE button.

Come on play fair - you like what commercial advertising provides, but you use the MUTE button on commercials?

That's a one way street!

Ever hear of quid pro quo?

hmm so it's just for long cable runs? the cable I have now is like 5 ft long but its not reason to be that long..

but it's annoying I'd watch the OTA HD channels more if it did not freeze every 15-30 secs.

only time I switch is when the news is on.

any other stations plan on switching back to VHF? If so then I can use the apartment antenna again.. right now it's only just a VHF antenna.

My sliver sensor is about 40Ft lower in elevation then the apartment antenna on the roof. And I don't have an attic.


Have you tried to see what you can now receive now from that
VHF antenna. You could try the analog channels both VHF & UHF. If you receive any UHF now then the splitters are full band, up to 900 mhz. Also do you know for sure that there is not a main amp for the antenna.

You may want to test an analog tv while the analog log is still on the air. If you do give us a report of what the channels look like.

The picture on the 21 channels it receives in NYC is pretty amazing!
sound is great too.
I'm using the RCA connectors with composite video

The 4 of the 6 major networks all come in great since I'm on the 2nd
floor in Western Queens.

I do not get PBS (WNET 13) at 5PM on a weekday. I'll try at primetime.

Zenith 1994year 27" CRT TV (4:3)
DTV converter box Make/Model:
DigitalStream DTX9950 purchased at Radio Shack

Antenna: RadioShack indoor TV Antenna (rabbit ears)
Cat. No. 15-1857

Sure I get some breakup on some stations but with urban dwelling it's expected. As the weather changes so will it. I have rabbit ears so I can make some adjustments but the coaxial cord is short.
I may upgrade my antenna or else first extend the coaxial cable and place the antenna elsewhere in the room. Hey picture looks great and it's paid by commercial advertising and not by me. I only wish I did this 18 months ago when I cancelled cable television.

What I liked best was WCBS 2 news at 5PM had the best resolution so they must be using HD cameras for local news in the field. Not live shots but recorded/edited footage.
I haven't tried primetime yet OTA and am looking forward to it.
When commercials come on I just use the MUTE button.
My aunt also lives in Queens. We tried about 10 different indoor antenna's throughout the years. All worked about the same. Crappy. Some pluged into electric and some not.

UNTIL I bought her a Terk -50 Now made as TERK- 55. Best reception so far. Most stations 80 to 90 on DTV pal. She gets all the major networks with 80 to 90. She is 7 miles from Empire state.

I suggest you look at the TERK

I posted a few days ago about the improvement I was getting in signal strength On 12/6. This continued on 12/7 and 12/8. This included days of very high winds in the 40 to 50 mph range and even some snow. Signal strength on just about all NY channels was about 80 to 90 %. Some channels like 11.1 and 9.1 which used to be around 50% were now mid 70's.

This improvement went away this morning 12/9 and it all reverted back. No rationale for it. I'm about 30 miles due west of ESB in Morris County (Randolph).

I posted a few days ago about the improvement I was getting in signal strength On 12/6. This continued on 12/7 and 12/8. This included days of very high winds in the 40 to 50 mph range and even some snow. Signal strength on just about all NY channels was about 80 to 90 %. Some channels like 11.1 and 9.1 which used to be around 50% were now mid 70's.

This improvement went away this morning 12/9 and it all reverted back. No rationale for it. I'm about 30 miles due west of ESB in Morris County (Randolph).

What box are you using? A Cebe?

I'm using a Channel master 4228 8-bay bowtie antenna mounted on the chimney about 40 feet up with a CM 7777 Amp feeding a Sharp HD TV.

Hello form the Heights:

I'm in the 150s on the west side of Manhattan and just replaced my 19-inch Sony CRT with a 40-inch LCD. Fearing I'd have to get cable, I was pleasantly surprised to receive OTA signals fine.

I live in a north-facing apartment on the 4th floor of a six-story building. I ripped the rabbit ears off my 19-inch (no amplifier) and connected it up to the LCD. The TV picked up 40 analog and digital channels. I get the following digital channels:
2-1, 4-1, 4-2, 4-4, 5-1, 5-2, 7-1, 7-2, 7-3, 9-1, 9-2, 11-1, 11-2, 13-1, 13-2, 13-3, 25-1, 25-2, 31-1, 31-2, 31-3, 31-4, 41-1, 47-1, 68-1.

Of course, some of these are lower-res versions of existing high-res channels and others are useless weather channels, church chatter, or spanish-speaking stations. After all is said and done, I keep 13 channels in my line up.

The reception on the major networks is flawless. I was concerned after looking at the results form antennaweb.org, who recommended I get a high-powered rooftop antenna. But, it is not necessary for me.

Thought I'd share for those who are wondering about the reception in Washington Heights.

I'm using a Channel master 4228 8-bay bowtie antenna mounted on the chimney about 40 feet up with a CM 7777 Amp feeding a Sharp HD TV.

Are you using some type of set top box(dtvpal)? OR do you have a HDTV with built in tuner?

My Sharp TV is a 32" HDTV with a built in OTA tuner. I am not using a converter box.

My Sharp TV is a 32" HDTV with a built in OTA tuner. I am not using a converter box.

I am using a Toshiba TV 32" HDTV with the built in OTA tuner. I get the stations the same but I still in my right mind don't understand how all of you can get channel 2. I can barely peak it at around 20 and I am only 4 miles from the ESB. You guys are over twice my distance and have no problems picking it up.

Have you tried to see what you can now receive now from that
VHF antenna. You could try the analog channels both VHF & UHF. If you receive any UHF now then the splitters are full band, up to 900 mhz. Also do you know for sure that there is not a main amp for the antenna.

You may want to test an analog tv while the analog log is still on the air. If you do give us a report of what the channels look like.

sorry I never got a email notification I can't get ANY UHF channels with the apartment antenna The last channel I can get is channel 13 and that's it.

My Sharp TV is a 32" HDTV with a built in OTA tuner. I am not using a converter box.

Are you using rg6 coax cable from the antenna to the tv?

Maybe the cable you have is part of the problem?

sorry I never got a email notification I can't get ANY UHF channels with the apartment antenna The last channel I can get is channel 13 and that's it.
Most likely then there is a VHF amp inside an electrical room right under the antenna. How would you rate the quality of the signal you received from those analog channels. Like for example 7- great, 9- ghosty 11- fair 13- snowy. This will give you an idea of what you will receive after 2-19-09 when all those channels are digital with the antenna system set up as it is now.

I am using a Toshiba TV 32" HDTV with the built in OTA tuner. I get the stations the same but I still in my right mind don't understand how all of you can get channel 2. I can barely peak it at around 20 and I am only 4 miles from the ESB. You guys are over twice my distance and have no problems picking it up. I would assume that you are receiving a lot of multipath distortion. On the analog tv that would be ghost. You could check your UHF anlog channels & you may see what the problem is.

Most likely then there is a VHF amp inside an electrical room right under the antenna. How would you rate the quality of the signal you received from those analog channels. Like for example 7- great, 9- ghosty 11- fair 13- snowy. This will give you an idea of what you will receive after 2-19-09 when all those channels are digital with the antenna system set up as it is now.

Very likely. I had a Blonder-Toungue Apt amplifier that only went up to 550MHZ, which of course is useless if your trying to get OTA HD. Another factor if there is no amp is cable length and cable type.

I am using quality RG6 cable. I have on several occasions received received excellent signal strength from all channels. Most of the NY channels are in the 70% plus range on most nights except for 11.1 and 9.1. which are around 50%. But there were 2 times since my September's OTA install that I was getting a signal strength of over 70% for 9.1 and 11.1 with the others 80% or better!

Just trying to understand why. Some suggest weather, humidity, wind etc. One of the times I got that great reception it was snowing here in Randolph! So far both times the reception was great was on weekends!

LenL, do you have a signal amp? I'm asking because I recently discovered the cause of intermittent signal issues over the last few months was a faulty amplifier that was spitting out noise all over the place.

- Trip

I am using quality RG6 cable. I have on several occasions received received excellent signal strength from all channels. Most of the NY channels are in the 70% plus range on most nights except for 11.1 and 9.1. which are around 50%. But there were 2 times since my September's OTA install that I was getting a signal strength of over 70% for 9.1 and 11.1 with the others 80% or better!

Just trying to understand why. Some suggest weather, humidity, wind etc. One of the times I got that great reception it was snowing here in Randolph! So far both times the reception was great was on weekends!

The stations have been working on a broad band UHF antenna & the combiner at the ESB which may have brought an improvement.

I have a CM 4228 antenna and a Channel Master 7777 amp.

By the way...signal strength was around 51% for 11.1 and 9.1 last night. Right now they are both close to 80%. All of the NY stations are up close to 80% and higher this AM!

I am using quality RG6 cable. I have on several occasions received received excellent signal strength from all channels. Most of the NY channels are in the 70% plus range on most nights except for 11.1 and 9.1. which are around 50%. But there were 2 times since my September's OTA install that I was getting a signal strength of over 70% for 9.1 and 11.1 with the others 80% or better!

Just trying to understand why. Some suggest weather, humidity, wind etc. One of the times I got that great reception it was snowing here in Randolph! So far both times the reception was great was on weekends!
I was trying to eliminate any fault of your own. You seem to have the right equipment. So it must be the weather. I can tell you mY aunt who lives in queens with a Terk-55 indoor antenna and she gets 90 signals. Except when it rains.

If it's convenient, next time your strength takes a dive, try unplugging and replugging your CM7777. If it helps, it's a bad amp. If not, it's something else and I'm out of ideas.

- Trip

Hi

I have been reading about the recent signal loss that happened late last week. I checked my set top box over the weekend and saw that with only 2.1, 4.1 and 5.1 had enough strength to show a picture, with only 4.1 being at the high end.

7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 9.1, 9.2, 11.1 all are very low and I am not getting any picture at all, last checked this morning.

I have experienced this before and would just wait it out and in a couple days the signals would return.

My question to those affected is, has your signal strength returned as of yet? If so, did you do anything to solve the issue?

I had reception in the 80 to 90 signal strength range Sat night and by Sunday night it was back to 50 to 70 for the NY Stations.

I am using an amp and tried unplugging it and plugging it back in but it did nothing.

I am sensing that humidity may be an issue for some reason. It went up Sunday and my reception went down. Still trying that theory out and waiting for the humidity to drop down again.

I would suggest that you wait to see if you get better reception when we get some dry weather again and post your findings.

Just chiming in to say that you're not alone. As I've said before, I'm down here in Monmouth County, NJ, in the Asbury Park area. For the past few days, I've seen far more dropouts than I've seen in weeks. And we've had a range of weather conditions, so I'm reasonably certain that humidity is not the only contributor. They might be working on the combiner again, but we might never know for sure.

I'm not changing anything this time. Must... have... patience....

thanks for the replies everyone. I am glad I am not alone in this. Hopefully it sorts itself out in the next few days as its done before.

with the cloudy, cold weather, some changes have occured.

2.1 is coming in at a low strength
4.1 is strong again
5.1 has no signal whatsoever
5.2 nothing
7.1 no signal at all
7.2 nothing
7.3 nothing
9.1 low, with a lot of breakups
11.1 back to a strong signal

I wonder if 7.1 moved from the 45.1 digital channel as well as 5.1? Anyone know?

Is NJN finally back in HD?

Tell us where you are located and what your antenna set up is.

I am in Northern NJ, bergen county.

I use an old Sony SAT 200 HD set top box and have it connected via coax cable to my roof antenna. No other equipment used.

thanks

I did two hours worth of video captures late this afternoon and into the early evening. It's raining/freezing rain down here -- in other words, adverse weather conditions for reception.

Still, I had no dropouts at all during this period. None. Zero.

Whatever the problem was over the weekend, I think it's fixed.

Well

I am happy to report that ALL my local stations have been fixed and are all broadcasting almost full strength.

All of the stations transmitting from the ESB are way down in reception for me. Most are with a signal strength under 60%. These stations I believe all transmit from ESB and reception is low today. WCBS-TV 2, WNBC-TV 4, WNYW 5, WABC-TV 7, WWOR-TV 9, WPIX-TV 11, WNET 13, WNYE-TV 25, WPXN-TV 31, WXTV 41, WNJU 47, and WFUT-TV 68.


However NJN 50.1 is still around 90% for me. Of course it is closer but if weather is a factor then why wouldn't that signal also be lower?

Checked this morning, and all the stations are still strong, 90% or higher, except for 2.1 which has fallen.

2.1 is a lost cause for me but you all know that already. 7 is my strongest station. I can peak it at over 85. 11 has also been stronger lately. Who knows how 7 and 11 are going to be when they move to high VHF. I have a feeling the reception is going to be much worse instead of better.

All of the stations transmitting from the ESB are way down in reception for me. Most are with a signal strength under 60%. These stations I believe all transmit from ESB and reception is low today. WCBS-TV 2, WNBC-TV 4, WNYW 5, WABC-TV 7, WWOR-TV 9, WPIX-TV 11, WNET 13, WNYE-TV 25, WPXN-TV 31, WXTV 41, WNJU 47, and WFUT-TV 68.


However NJN 50.1 is still around 90% for me. Of course it is closer but if weather is a factor then why wouldn't that signal also be lower?

Your big problem over there is that you're basically right in the middle of a valley, relative to most of these transmitters. Without a topographical map, it would be really difficult to pinpoint exactly what causes various reception conditions for you. But get another look at TVfool.com for your location, and note how many of your channels are listed as 1Edge or 2Edge (single- or dual-edge diffraction). That basically means that the TV signal has to wrap around or over an obstacle - in your case, hills and "mountains." It *diffracts* much like sound waves go around a wall, or light passing through a prism. There's a techie description (that I mostly don't understand, actually) at http://www.wireless.per.nl/reference/chaptr03/diffrac.htm, but the illustrations give you enough of an idea of what radio wave diffraction is that we can talk about the concept.

I'm starting to realize, though, that humidity and ground/surface-wetness probably have larger effects (and wider ranging variations in effect) for people like you that do not have a line-of-sight (LOS) to various transmitting antennas.

It's pretty well established that trees have a different effect on the diffusion of transmitted signals during the summer vs during the winter. In the winter, the leaves are down, so the effect is less. My understanding of the issue is that it's not the plant fiber in the leaves that has this effect, but IT'S THE WATER contained in the leaves.

That ties right in with what I've read about attic antenna installations: when the roofing material or certain types of siding (wood or other materials that can absorb moisture) is wet, it will have a substantial effect on attic antenna reception.

Likewise, any wetness or increased moisture on the ground, trees, rocks, and other surfaces of a mountain or hill that blocks your view of a transmitter will all have an effect on the signal that diffracts around or over that mountain. And each of those tiny, reflected signals is being received at slightly different timing than the most prominent beam. All of the reflected signals are somewhat out of phase from the most prominent beam, and if some of those out of phase signals are approaching 180 degrees out of phase from the main signal, they'll weaken that signal. So the wet-surface diffusion of a radio beam going through wet trees, brush and other obstacles will ultimately take something away from a signal - in other words, it increases noise at the receiver. If the effect is strong enough, or if you were starting off with a fairly weak signal in the first place, you might very well lose reception during wet weather more than other people who have a line of sight view of the transmitter.

OK -- I've laid out my theory and I've convinced myself: all of you with single or dual edge diffraction reception (as listed in TV fool) are going to have more problems during wet weather than those of us with line of sight reception. Then again, this is just my theory. Anyone want to poke a hole in it?

Thanks for the explanation and all the work you put in to type it all up!

I do use TVFOOL and the results they provide and what I actually get are in some cases close and in other cases far off. According to TVFOOL 11.1 and 9.1 should be stronger than 7.1 and it is quite the opposite. Signal strength for 7.1 is usually mid 70's to mid 80's regardless of the weather and 11.1 and 9.1 are usually around 50 and sometimes come up to the mid 70's. Since they all broadcast from the ESB it is puzzling. I read that stations on the ESB all use different kinds of broadcast antennas and these antennas are located at different parts of the ESB at differing heights. I also wonder if the transmission signal is directed out not in 360 degrees equally but is stronger in certain compass directions.

While my line of sight is not good I am still about 800 feet above sea level. I have also found that leaves on trees have had no impact one way or the other. My reception back in September was as good if not better than is is today. There were lots of leaves on trees back then.

You're trying to find logic in a "science" that will drive you crazy - digital UHF transmission in an urban area filled with tall buildings!

This won't help, but further indicate the lack of black and white answers.

2,4,7,9,11 and 13 currently use the same Combiner antenna on the ESB - and that antenna employs an omnidirectional pattern. Additionally, there is also a fill-in antenna array directed toward the southeast for Brooklyn and Queens.

Go figure!

As others have repeatedly mentioned here, reception is based on each station's frequency and ERP (Effective Radiated Power) - temperature, humidity and possibly if the transmission Gods are smiling.

Its snowing, sleeting, humidity around 100%, visibility is low and guess what? I just turned on the TV and signal strength for all the NY stations broadcasting from the ESB is in the 80% to 90% range. One of my usually bad stations 11.1 which was around 50% last night is now at 81%.

I give up.....

It's been 100% snow here in New Britain, CT (southern Hartford County) so far. All of my digital signals seem to be about the same with maybe a tiny improvement with WHPX-DT (ION) channel 34 (analog 26) of New London. Not bad considering I rest an old pair of telescoping VHF rods on the back center of my Sanyo 26" LCD HDTV, with a converter box to the set's left, so I can compare the signals the two tuners get.

To keep this in the New York City metro, I've never received any digital signal from the city or Long Island to this day.

Its snowing, sleeting, humidity around 100%, visibility is low and guess what? I just turned on the TV and signal strength for all the NY stations broadcasting from the ESB is in the 80% to 90% range. One of my usually bad stations 11.1 which was around 50% last night is now at 81%.

I give up.....

I've always said, antenna reception is never an exact science, it's an artform.

I have my radio shack antenna in my attic and there is plenty of snow on the roof and there's been no negative impact here.

Hi, i have read through a lot of posts and cannot figure out what antenna to get for my hdtv. I have a samsung 40" LN40 A500

I live in midtown west and can see the empire state building outside my window. I live in a condo (3rd floor) so cannot put any antennas outside or on the roofs, only indoors. The only problem is there is a huge AT+T building right across from my window, not sure if its a network tower and if its going to effect receiving signals.

Thanks for all your help!

Hi, i have read through a lot of posts and cannot figure out what antenna to get for my hdtv. I have a samsung 40" LN40 A500

I live in midtown west and can see the empire state building outside my window. I live in a condo (3rd floor) so cannot put any antennas outside or on the roofs, only indoors. The only problem is there is a huge AT+T building right across from my window, not sure if its a network tower and if its going to effect receiving signals.

Thanks for all your help!

Try a Zenith Silver Sensor

I agree, try the Silver Sensor.

Good idea if you can return it if it doesn't do the job for you.

Be very patient, you'll have to find the "sweet spot" in your room that gives
the best reception of most channels.

Walk around your room with the antenna checking the readings of the signals.

Lots of luck!

Can anyone recommend an outdoor antenna installer who does work on South Shore of Nassau Cty?? Figured this would be a great Xmas gift for the folks since they live in front of the TV.

Can anyone recommend an outdoor antenna installer who does work on South Shore of Nassau Cty?? Figured this would be a great Xmas gift for the folks since they live in front of the TV.

Also include in the gift for the antenna person to come back and re-tune the antenna after the February 17th transition.

You want a gift that will be good for more than a month and half, or so!

Reception was breaking up alot during the Giant game. Not suprising with the winds.

First I want to mentioned reception here in Randolph (Morris County 30 miles due west of the ESB) has been excellent from Friday 12/19 through Monday AM 12/22.

Snell and or Trip I have a question for you or anyone with an answer. On this forum I keep hearing about this equipment called a "Combiner". Just doing web searches all that seems to come up is a combiner for digital and analog radio on the ESB. I could not find one piece of info on the internet saying that TV was using a combiner. From what I could discern a combiner is used so that several stations can share a broadcast antenna and not interfere with one another. However everything I read points to the TV stations having their own antennas on the ESB at different locations and different designs and different transmission power.

So what does a combiner have to do with Feb 17 2009? Or today? For digital TV broadcasting from the ESB?

The analog stations on ESB generally have their own antennas or are otherwise sharing (4 and 5 share I think, as might 7/11/13), but the digital signals of 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, and 13 are currently all using a combiner to share the same antenna. 5 has its own digital antenna.

After the transition, 2, 4, and 9 will remain on the combiner, while I believe 7, 11, and 13 may be on a common antenna (unsure), and 5 will stay put as well.

No guarantees that any of that information is correct (except that I know 5 is by itself and the rest of the VHFs are on the current combiner). I'd have to do some more reading of FCC filings to tell for sure.

- Trip

PDROTH,

Try WWW.hometheaterman.com.

They did a great job on my Winegard antenna.

The analog stations on ESB generally have their own antennas or are otherwise sharing (4 and 5 share I think, as might 7/11/13), but the digital signals of 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, and 13 are currently all using a combiner to share the same antenna. 5 has its own digital antenna.

After the transition, 2, 4, and 9 will remain on the combiner, while I believe 7, 11, and 13 may be on a common antenna (unsure), and 5 will stay put as well.

No guarantees that any of that information is correct (except that I know 5 is by itself and the rest of the VHFs are on the current combiner). I'd have to do some more reading of FCC filings to tell for sure.

- Trip

Trip -

Come the transition, 7, 11 and 13 will have their own combiner and share the same Hi-VHF antenna.

PDROTH,

Try WWW.hometheaterman.com.

They did a great job on my Winegard antenna.


Thx!!!

Trip -

Come the transition, 7, 11 and 13 will have their own combiner and share the same Hi-VHF antenna.

But how would they come in. Right now 7 is my strongest channel. It could become my weakest.

There is no way of knowing!!!!

What you're currently receiving has absolutely nothing to do with how things will be for you after the transition.

First, all three of those channels will be transmitting on different frequencies from those frequencies being used now.

Channel 7 is now broadcasting on 45; it will go to 7.
Channel 11 is now broadcasting on 33; it will go to 11.
Channel 13 is now broadcasting on 61; it will go to 13.

Their new combiner will be higher than the current one - logically, that should help.

ERPs (effective power) will be different. Although the Commission had hoped that stations would not be
penalized concerning the number of people served, once again, no one knows.

We all will have to play the waiting game.

Be assured that stations will petition the Commission for improvements, if needed (I'm sure they will be) once the change has been made.

ABC has told the FCC they want more power than they've been granted. I have a feeling that if reception falls short, they will ask the FCC to boost power and, if granted, probably have the equipment handy to make it happen.

- Trip

I am asking because right now analog 7 is very ghostly and fuzzy and I hear that ghost means multipath and you all know how bad that is for digital reception.

Also I switched antennas with my mother again. I loaned her the UFO antenna and she gave me back the Terk's HDTVi that I loaned her. I notice reception a bit better with the Terk. The problem with the Radioshack antenna is that I will be pulling stations in like channel 4 (which is still weak by the way but I can still get it unlike channel 2) and channel 9 it would fluctuate and break out a lot more with the UFO. It would go to around 55 to 8 or even 0. The Terk does not do that much. It may pixlate a bit but it does not make it drop to 0 as much. It has a more stable signal. The UFO is really a huge peace of junk that was recommended on another forum. I got it because it is amplified which does not make a bit of difference, it looks cool and it suppose to be more directional that you can change with a remote. Should have never bought it and stick with the Terk but have it outside the closet in another room.

The real RS antenna to get was the 15-1880. That one had a screen in the back of it for the bow tie, and I can tell you from personal experience of using it in a basement apartment in Flushing it was just perfect.

Have a picture of it?

Have a picture of it?
Google is your friend (http://images.google.com/images?q=radioshack%2015-1880).

Google is your friend (http://images.google.com/images?q=radioshack%2015-1880).

Yep that's the one. Contact me with a PM and I'll let it go for even less than the RS UFO antenna. That one even works great here 35-40 miles out from the ESB in the sticks of LI, although I now have replaced it with an outdoor roof mounted antenna which I got an approval for (i.e. Dad).

Today I am able to pull in channel 2 but it is very weak. It pixelates a lot and I can only peak it at about 45 to 50. They must have boosted the power a bit but it is still unwatchable. I am also able to pull in channel 50. Channel 50 is now in 1080i HD. It is stronger and does not break up much. This is after doing a rescan.

Most likely then there is a VHF amp inside an electrical room right under the antenna. How would you rate the quality of the signal you received from those analog channels. Like for example 7- great, 9- ghosty 11- fair 13- snowy. This will give you an idea of what you will receive after 2-19-09 when all those channels are digital with the antenna system set up as it is now.


sorry took so long to get back, but channel 7 is perfect it's almost watching a cable feed. Channel is is ok not that fuzzy also channel 13 like channel 7 is also perfect.

so from all the channels I can get..

Ch. 2 (snowy but comes in better at night)
ch. 3 (snow)
ch. 4 (watchable picture sometimes but too much snow)
ch. 5 (watchable picture but some snow)
ch. 6 (snow but I get this radio station)
ch. 7 (very clear 90% of the time)
ch. 8 (snow)
ch.9 (clean and clear)
ch. 11 (clear with some snow)
ch. 13 (very clear)

also I is ABC-DT and NBC-DT down? the only ota HD I can get right now is CBS as of 12/25 2:53Am.

check again as of 7:37Am ABC-DT and CBSHD and Wpix-HD all work again must of been some work done on the ESB?


Merry Christmas everyone!

What's going on at PIX?

Hadn't seen the Yule Log for years, heard all the promos about it now being in HD, so tuned in.

Huh?

It's SD, 4.3!

Did some one roll the wrong version?

Or did Santa Claus put coal in my LCD?

What's going on at PIX?

Hadn't seen the Yule Log for years, heard all the promos about it now being in HD, so tuned in.

Huh?

It's SD, 4.3!

Did some one roll the wrong version?

Or did Santa Claus put coal in my LCD?

I asked the same thing at another site!!!

i was like huh they said it would be in HD.. :-| going to be interesting what they say after it ends...

i thought it was just me...

*edited

I emailed WPIX about this

I am pretty sure nobody is doing any work on the esb on christmas eve at 2 in the morning. Rather, the stations shut off their digital signal overnight to save a few $$$$.

I am pretty sure nobody is doing any work on the esb on christmas eve at 2 in the morning. Rather, the stations shut off their digital signal overnight to save a few $$$$.

hmm I wonder if this is something new they are trying.. I ran WXplus for 24 hr and it never went out but this morning I could not get anything but CBSHD.. at first i thought my silver sensor was messed up because it's outside and we had all this rain and snow. and I got no signal at all.

I asked the same thing at another site!!!

i was like huh they said it would be in HD.. :-| going to be interesting what they say after it ends...

i thought it was just me...

*edited

I emailed WPIX about this

It was originally done in 4:3 35mm in 1970. However they did remaster it to HD quality.

Sorry, it was 1966, shot on 16mm film at Gracie Mansion!

It wasn't remastered - it was reshot in California on 35mm.

A $4,000 rug was burned at Gracie Mansion during the original shoot,
and WPIX was not invited back.

That still doesn't answer the question of what is going on right now.

I know that the Tribune Company is in deep doo-doo, but this is ridiculous,
especially after all of the station's promos touting HD!

What version is on the air now the 16mm or 35mm version?

the promo they had on a few days before had a tree and gifts beside the fireplace was the the 35mm version?

IMHO it's pointless watching the HD feed unless you like to have a black border around the screen.

It's got to be the 35mm version.

The 16 was so over used, it started to fall apart - that's why they reshot it.

There was a 2003 upconversion to HD - I had assumed that would have been
Wide Screen.

Sorry, it was 1966, shot on 16mm film at Gracie Mansion!

It wasn't remastered - it was reshot in California on 35mm.

A $4,000 rug was burned at Gracie Mansion during the original shoot,
and WPIX was not invited back.

That still doesn't answer the question of what is going on right now.

I know that the Tribune Company is in deep doo-doo, but this is ridiculous,
especially after all of the station's promos touting HD!

Thats what I meant. The version that they show today and every year is the 1970 California one. Last year or the year before there was a documentary on PIX on how they filmed it. Just recently they did remaster it. They showed the before and after results. It is 35 mm. But as far as I know it was shot in 4:3 so the side bars are normal.

It's got to be the 35mm version.

The 16 was so over used, it started to fall apart - that's why they reshot it.

There was a 2003 upconversion to HD - I had assumed that would have been
Wide Screen.

ok I thought so just making sure.

showing SD on a HD feed I think is pointless IMHO.

Question -

The PIX 11 bug in the lower right corner does not indicate HD.

For those who might know, with the station having recently changed the bug,
do they normally use HD to indicate a High Definition broadcast?

I'm curious to know why they changed it to PIX 11 instead of CW11?

Oh, nevermind, apparently it has to do with Tribune trying to wean itself off the CW network...

A while ago, Tribune, owner of 11, sold its approximately quarter interest in the original WB. The WB was then merged with UPN - so the CW is now 50% owned by Warner Bros. and the other 50 is with CBS.

The ratings for the CW haven't been all that good, so why should 11 continue to brand itself with a less than stellar network?

Also Zell, the new owner, may sell-off or find a partner for Tribune's stations.

Furthermore, the Tribune corporation is in bankruptcy!!

wow that commercial was quick to come on.. I was expecting some kind of message at the end..

sorry took so long to get back, but channel 7 is perfect it's almost watching a cable feed. Channel is is ok not that fuzzy also channel 13 like channel 7 is also perfect.

so from all the channels I can get..

Ch. 2 (snowy but comes in better at night)
ch. 3 (snow)
ch. 4 (watchable picture sometimes but too much snow)
ch. 5 (watchable picture but some snow)
ch. 6 (snow but I get this radio station)
ch. 7 (very clear 90% of the time)
ch. 8 (snow)
ch.9 (clean and clear)
ch. 11 (clear with some snow)
ch. 13 (very clear)

After the 2-19-09 digital cut over you may be blessed with 7, 11 & 13. It may take a while for the stations to remove all the analog equip from the VHF antennas at the ESB. Some of the temp antennas may need to be removed to make room for the prem antennas. Some that are now on the side may move the the very tip top & maybe one right under it. Thus they may be a lot higher. Therefore providing a stronger signal that what is receive now. As far as those VHF channels, you may be in good shape just by using the antenna system provided by assuming what you now receive from the analog on those frequencys

Merry Christmas & God bless you

I hooked up my mothers Apex DT502 that I got her for Christmas. First we tried a cheap old pair of rabbit ears that she had lying around and all I was able to get with the scan was 25 (which broke up a lot) and 29 (yuk). So then I hooked up the RadioShack UFO and I was able to get 4 (weak), 5 ,7 , 9 and 11 were strong, 25, 29 (again yuk) and 47. She says she cares about 4 the most but it breaks up a lot. We have the antenna on top of her TV because when it was on its side I could not get 9 or 11.

So, I am now in Fair Lawn NJ, with my Silver Sensor, no amp, no extra additions to the receive system. Just a DTT900. No subchannels included.

2-1
4-1
5-1
7-1
9-1
11-1
13-1 (Breaking up, obvious reasons here)
25-1
29-1
31-1 (Breaking up)
41-1
47-1
50-1
63-1
68-1 (Didn't scan in but was detected with signal on manual entry)

I'll have to use the FusionHDTV and get some new TSReader data.

- Trip

Did any one see The Sound of music in HD?

I watched it in 16:9 from ABC & it looked just like it did at the movies. Why any one would pay for digital cable when they can get something this great for free is beyond me. It would seem that with so many out of work or short of money that TV cable would be the first bill to get rid of. I am still trying to get my head above water since the gas spike last summer thus, TV cable of any kind is out of the question. I look at it as a waste of money.

Great job ABC

So true especially that when it is on cable or satellite TV you get the same amount of commercials or more than for free on ABC and they don't even always show it in HD. I still don't get how cable and satellite can have so many channels you have to pay for to see and they show just as many commercials or more than the free airwaves. You are paying for commercials. I think it is a real ripoff. If they pulled that with satellite or internet radio that you paid for I can see many cancellations but I guess for pay TV we pay even more for premium channels that are commercial free or pay less but still pay a lot for commercial ridden channels.

Also I am still getting channels 2 and 50. Channel 2 is still very weak as I can only peak it at about 55 and does break up sometimes. At certain times it can be watchable but at other times it breaks up bad. Channel 50 is more stable. This is all with the Terk HDTVi. I wonder if buying a amplifier that has to be plugged into a wall socket that I put in between the antenna and the TV would improve reception. Even a 10% jump would help a lot.

... I still don't get how cable and satellite can have so many channels you have to pay for to see and they show just as many commercials or more than the free airwaves. You are paying for commercials. I think it is a real ripoff. If they pulled that with satellite or internet radio that you paid for I can see many cancellations but I guess for pay TV we pay even more for premium channels that are commercial free or pay less but still pay a lot for commercial ridden channels.

Just a sign of the times. I went to the movies last week, paid $13.00, and had to sit through over 30 minutes of commercials and movie trailers before the feature even started. And then there were all the scenes with products or logos prominently on display. I say turn off the TV, stay home, light a nice fire in the fireplace, pour yourself a tumbler of scotch and read a good book (The last book I read was uncut with no commercial interuptions :)).

Anyone notice WABC 5:00 news tonite not in HD?

It looks like we have an answer on what is going to happen at the top of ESB where WNBC/4 currently resides. WNJU's application to move there has been granted.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101251080&formid=301&fac_num=73333

3. Antenna Location Coordinates: (NAD 27)
Latitude: Degrees 40 Minutes 44 Seconds 54 North
Longitude: Degrees 73 Minutes 59 Seconds 10 West

5. Antenna Location Site Elevation Above Mean Sea Level: 15.5 meters
6. Overall Tower Height Above Ground Level: 443 meters
7. Height of Radiation Center Above Ground Level: 436.5 meters
8. Height of Radiation Center Above Average Terrain : 440 meters
9. Maximum Effective Radiated Power (average power): 650 kW

Did any one see The Sound of music in HD?

I watched it in 16:9 from ABC & it looked just like it did at the movies. Why any one would pay for digital cable when they can get something this great for free is beyond me. It would seem that with so many out of work or short of money that TV cable would be the first bill to get rid of. I am still trying to get my head above water since the gas spike last summer thus, TV cable of any kind is out of the question. I look at it as a waste of money.

Great job ABC

Well, personally I pay for cable because TV reception is extremely difficult here. I have to put my TV antenna on tower to just to get 3 out of 4 of the big 4 reliably. Service Electric (our cable company) invented cable TV for that purpose in fact - to bring TV to areas where reception is difficult.

So if I wasn't a ham radio operator with an 86ft tower it was either cable TV or a couple of religious channels, or DVDs.

Also I am still getting channels 2 and 50. Channel 2 is still very weak as I can only peak it at about 55 and does break up sometimes. At certain times it can be watchable but at other times it breaks up bad. Channel 50 is more stable. This is all with the Terk HDTVi. I wonder if buying a amplifier that has to be plugged into a wall socket that I put in between the antenna and the TV would improve reception. Even a 10% jump would help a lot.

That's definitely multipath, as WNJN (50.1) is halfway between you and me so it won't have such strong reflections from the buildings in NYC.

I think what you need is an attenuator, not an amp.

Well I lost channel 2 the other day. I can only peak it at 20% now. It is running in low power. Not as low as 13 but still low. I am still getting channel 50 about the same power as channel 4. I don't believe it is so much multipath because 5 and 7 I can still get strong around 70 to 80. It is that 2 and 4 are running at less power. My mothers TV can get all the other channels strong except 4. 2 and 13 she can't get. What is a attenuator?

The stations you mention are not running at low power.

The problem is with you and your reception, not the broadcasters!

All stations except 13 and 31 are loud and clear here in Fair Lawn. I still think your problem is with multipath.

- Trip

I have an antenna mounted in my attic and whenever its windy I get momentary dropouts on otherwise strong HD TV stations. It isn't a matter of poor connections in my system. I discussed this with some people who have been at the Empire site and while I know that it's a work in progress this just doesn't make any sense to me. The problems are not seen on every station but on many, such as ch's 2, 5, & 7. I know that channel 2 & 7 will be relocated in February and channel 5 will be moving to a new antenna, I believe eventually in a shared arrangement with WNBC. I just don't know if I am the only one with this problem and if so is this a temporary situation?

Well I lost channel 2 the other day. I can only peak it at 20% now. It is running in low power. Not as low as 13 but still low. I am still getting channel 50 about the same power as channel 4. I don't believe it is so much multipath because 5 and 7 I can still get strong around 70 to 80. It is that 2 and 4 are running at less power. My mothers TV can get all the other channels strong except 4. 2 and 13 she can't get. What is a attenuator?


I would connect the antenna to a analog TV or analog tuner & look at the analog UHF stations. Then write down on a note book paper of what you see for each channel. You may see why you are having problems on the digital stations that are currently on UHF. For example if you see ghost on the screen while tuned to a analog channel then the same multipath that is causing the ghost on analog is most likly causing the problems on your UHF digital channels.

Also you may want to take a look at the analog VHF high band [7-13] channels & write down notes on them. After 2-18-09 you will not be able to use the analog TV for test to see the condition of your antenna signal. So you may want to make that test now while the analog is still on the air. After 2-18-09 some of the stations vill move the digital signal from the UHF to the current analog high band channel.

I have an antenna mounted in my attic and whenever its windy I get momentary dropouts on otherwise strong HD TV stations. It isn't a matter of poor connections in my system. I discussed this with some people who have been at the Empire site and while I know that it's a work in progress this just doesn't make any sense to me. The problems are not seen on every station but on many, such as ch's 2, 5, & 7. I know that channel 2 & 7 will be relocated in February and channel 5 will be moving to a new antenna, I believe eventually in a shared arrangement with WNBC. I just don't know if I am the only one with this problem and if so is this a temporary situation?

Your information is different from mine.

What I believe will be happening is that 2 will not be relocating physically. It will remain on its current Comibiner but will be transmitting on a different frequency - Channel 33. This Combiner, come the transition, will be for the UHF transmission of 2 (33), 4 (28) and 9 (38).

7 will be moving further up the mast to share a current VHF antenna that will be connected to a Hi-VHF Combiner also serving 11 and 13.

I have heard that 5 (44) wants to move higher on the mast - but I do not know of any plan to share with 4, at the stations do now with their analog antenna.

Once all the analog antennas and facilities are removed, stations will look for greater ERP - power and/or height, and have submitted some plans that span until Fall of 2010.

It is not multipath because it would affect all of the channels but 5 and 7 come in strong. 2 was stronger but now it is not. If that was the case then all of the channels would have problems. 5 and 7 I can peak into the high 70's to 80's. 9 and 11 usually stays in the 60's. 4 I get around the 50's to low 60's so I know it is weak. 13 I have never got past 10 and 2 I get it weak around 20's.

What you don't get is that 2 and 13 on on higher channels at lower power. The 700 Mhz which is going to be auctioned off. When 2 goes to 33 I should have no problem getting it.

What annoys me most about digital is that if you get a signal below 40 it just drops out. I did not know that it was bad. I though it would have to be as low as 20 for you to lose it. But at around 40 it is a pixelated mess and 20 you get nothing. Also thinking that I only live 4 miles away from the ESB I though I would get all the NYC channels perfect and not the stupid NJ channels three to four times the distance much stronger. But you all heard that already and I understand things more than I use too.

By the way the poster you said to try analog. My TV has a analog tuner and I tried them and I get the UHF analog channels clear.

You ignore that each channel is at a different frequency and that very fact can contribute to when multipath can occurs.

True but don't forget 2 and 13 are on the 700 Mhz. After 2/17/2009 no stations would be on that spectrum.

I just hope multipath is not worse on high VHF that 7, 11 and 13 are moving too. I have a feeling that I will be having problems getting those stations reliable after 2/17/2009 but time will tell.

The NJ stations are weaker and thus less impacted by the multipath you're experiencing. Different frequencies have different wavelengths and thus propagate differently, so it's no surprise that some would suffer more from multipath than others. What you say about 2 and 13 being at the top of the band is very true, though it doesn't explain your similar complaints about 4.

- Trip

About 4 is that I can usually get it around the mid 50's to low 60's but it is still better with the Terk than the crud RS UFO. With the UFO it would be lower or around the same and it would just break up to 0 signal. Channel 5 and 9 would do that too. 7 is fine. With the Terk it handles multipath problems better. It still sometimes breaks up for a second but not as bad as with the RS UFO.

Also as the NJ stations I am at least glad I am getting channel 50 (for now anyway) since they actually broadcast in 1080i and have HD programs on unlike 29 and 47 which are in crappy 480i.

Also can anyone tell me what a attenuator is and compared to a amp?

An attenuator does the opposite of an amplifier. Whereas an amplifier makes signals stronger (including reflected multipath signals), an attenuator makes all the signals weaker, which can help with multipath or if your receiver is being overloaded.

- Trip

Thanks for explaining.

By the way here is the weird part. I don't have a compos so I don't know for sure but I think I have my antenna pointed East and I get the ESB channels the way I have explained. If I point it toward the ESB I get the stations very weak even the NJ stations. I tried many positions and it all comes back to the same direction I have to point.

Also if you can explain this signal meter to me. This is from my TV.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q97/rtrappert/Picture099.jpg

So if I wasn't a ham radio operator with an 86ft tower it was either cable TV or a couple of religious channels, or DVDs.

speaking of ham radio I can forget about watching anything OTA HD if I start keying up.. 2m or 70m as soon as I press the transmit button by-by signal!

By the way the poster you said to try analog. My TV has a analog tuner and I tried them and I get the UHF analog channels clear.

If you care to try any thing else & have the room; I know of 2 more test you can try.

First check the channels & write down the signal level on your DTV. Put a 3 way connecter [also called a t connecter] on your antenna line. Connect a analog TV to the extra port on the 3 way connecter. Then measure your DTV signals again & see if they went down. They should go down about 3 db. If they did then check to see if this lower signal affected your problems on the DTV channels. This would be like adding a very small attenuator. If the problems are about the same then turn the TV to one of the UHF analog channels. Then run both TVs & when the DTV is going in & out or the signal drops down look at the analog set to see if you see some type of interferance on the screen. If the analog TV was fine with no changes on the screen they change the analog tv to a different channel & do the same test. Maybe try all of the analog UHF channels & see if any things happens to the analog TV at the same time.

If this does not locate the problem ,then there is a 3rd test. But it would require a Spectrum Analyzer. If you have any friends near by who are HAM radio operators, who may have a Spectrum Analyzer that would come over & look at your signal.

I hope you will be able to find the problem before you need to go that deep technicaly

I have had trouble picking up this station the last few days.... Is it b\c of the wind? Still picking up all my other stations.

Your information is different from mine.

What I believe will be happening is that 2 will not be relocating physically. It will remain on its current Comibiner but will be transmitting on a different frequency - Channel 33. This Combiner, come the transition, will be for the UHF transmission of 2 (33), 4 (28) and 9 (38).

7 will be moving further up the mast to share a current VHF antenna that will be connected to a Hi-VHF Combiner also serving 11 and 13.

I have heard that 5 (44) wants to move higher on the mast - but I do not know of any plan to share with 4, at the stations do now with their analog antenna.

Once all the analog antennas and facilities are removed, stations will look for greater ERP - power and/or height, and have submitted some plans that span until Fall of 2010.

When I said 'relocate" I meant a spectral move, not a physical move. Also, From what I've heard WNBC has rights to the top of the mast and 5 will share that location with 4 through the use of a combiner.

Anybody getting ION now? It is barely registering on my meter and I used to get in around 70 or 80. I am curious if it is just me, although I doubt it b\c I am getting all my other channels just as strong as I always do.

speaking of ham radio I can forget about watching anything OTA HD if I start keying up.. 2m or 70m as soon as I press the transmit button by-by signal!

As long as I keep the power below 500w on HF I am fine.

Anybody getting ION now? It is barely registering on my meter and I used to get in around 70 or 80. I am curious if it is just me, although I doubt it b\c I am getting all my other channels just as strong as I always do.

I noticed this morning that the power was way down.

The station is altering its analog Channel 31 transmitter located at the ESB for its new digital 31 frequency.

I believe that the station will be temporarily moving its transmission site to the Richland tower in N.J. while the ESB facility has work being done.

Once the ESB work is finished the station will move back - this will be after the magic 2/17 date - end of April.

Viewers should expect things to be a bit "scewy" not just until 2/17 but even after. Lots of changes in the future.

Anybody getting ION now? It is barely registering on my meter and I used to get in around 70 or 80. I am curious if it is just me, although I doubt it b\c I am getting all my other channels just as strong as I always do.
Wierd since you mentioned this. I noticed that now my program guide lists the ION channel and subchannels, although I still can't receive them due to distance and the antenna being in the attic.

I was never able to get ION anyway.

As for a attenuator it would make things worse. What you don't understand is that I tried cheap low power antennas and all I was able to pick up was channel 29 and sometimes 7 and 47. I need some kind of amp but I will decide after 2/17/2009 which is not that far away. I want to know so bad how 7, 11 and 13 are going to come in as high VHF because right now I can watch 7 and 11. Watched Smallville on 11 last night and it was clear. It only broke up a couple times for a second but I did not lose the picture. Just a little pixelation.

Anyone else notice a faint vertical line running down the left hand side of their displays while watching the WABC presentation of the New Years Eve Dick Clark special? I was watching on D*'s MPEG-4 HD feed...and I didn't get a chance to check the OTA feed on any of my other setups to see if it was an ABC issue...or a D* MPEG-4 issue. I didn't get to check the MPEG-2 D* HD feed either for that matter.

It was noticeable enough that my neighbor even said, "Hey what's wrong with your TV"....but when I switched to any other HD/SD channels there was no line...and when the WABC feed switched to wherever Fergie was (LA??) there was no line.

Or was I the only one sober enough at 11:57pm to notice??? :D

Anyone else notice a faint vertical line running down the left hand side of their displays while watching the WABC presentation of the New Years Eve Dick Clark special? I was watching on D*'s MPEG-4 HD feed...and I didn't get a chance to check the OTA feed on any of my other setups to see if it was an ABC issue...or a D* MPEG-4 issue. I didn't get to check the MPEG-2 D* HD feed either for that matter.

It was noticeable enough that my neighbor even said, "Hey what's wrong with your TV"....but when I switched to any other HD/SD channels there was no line...and when the WABC feed switched to wherever Fergie was (LA??) there was no line.

Or was I the only one sober enough at 11:57pm to notice??? :D

never bothered to check the HD feed but poor Dick, it was great to see him back however.

hmm Interesting today on 1-3-09 half my analog stations have gone fuzzy.. my two clearest channels ABC 7 and Channel 13 have gone from clear to borderline poor.. with ABC 7 being the worst (and the closest transmitter) any work being planned for the analog side of things? I have yet to get the converter coupon I lost the first one so I need to get another one.

Some of the analog stations have cut their power as they retrofit their analog transmitters as their primary or backup digital components.


What's being planned for analog is it's going bye-bye!

************************************************************ ******************************************

Just quickly checked some station filings with the FCC.

Specifically, 7 was scheduled to move its analog transmission from the ESB to Conde Nast (4 Times Square) until the switch over.

13 mentions converting half of its transmitter to digital.

Hope this helps.

Some of the analog stations have cut their power as they retrofit their analog transmitters as their primary or backup digital components.


What's being planned for analog is it's going bye-bye!

************************************************************ ******************************************

Just quickly checked some station filings with the FCC.

Specifically, 7 was scheduled to move its analog transmission from the ESB to Conde Nast (4 Times Square) until the switch over.

13 mentions converting half of its transmitter to digital.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the heads up do you have a link to the FCC filings?

most of the channels have almost all went away.. gives me time to tweak my OTA HD a bit more

Easiest way in via this thread.

Go to Post #7862 - Trip in VA

Click on Digital Transition Reports and you will see links next to stations.

Hope this helps.

thanks got it :)

edit and seems like chans 7, 11, and 13 all got clear again.. hmm I'm sure WABC can switch transmitter sites remotely?

During the transition, when 7 has been doing work on the ESB and also when work has been done on the Combiner that it currently shares with 2, 4, 9, 11 and 13, the station frequently has switched between ESB and Conde Nast - am sure this switching is all controlled remotely.

Hello - I am in Bergen county , NJ, Midland Park to be exact. We have an old roof top antenna (I really couldn't tell you what kind, other than that it is big!) and have been getting analog over the air for a while now. There is a long twin ribbon which we eventually (down the line) transform to 75ohm coax. We get a couple digital channels but they are unreliable except for like 7.

My hope is that converting this to RG-8 right at the antenna with an outdoor balun, and running a very short line straight to the TV (< 25 ft) with no splits, we are going to pick up many / all of the available new digital signals.

Any thoughts on whether this is going to work? Is it likely we are losing much of the signal in the 300ohm ribbon cable and that the RG-8 will fix it?

Is it more likely that my big old roof top antenna will work better than any of the smaller low profile ones that are available?

If I take a picture of it would someone be able to identify the frequencies it works for?

Should I consider building my own directional antennae?

Hello - I am in Bergen county , NJ, Midland Park to be exact. We have an old roof top antenna (I really couldn't tell you what kind, other than that it is big!) and have been getting analog over the air for a while now. There is a long twin ribbon which we eventually (down the line) transform to 75ohm coax. We get a couple digital channels but they are unreliable except for like 7.

My hope is that converting this to RG-8 right at the antenna with an outdoor balun, and running a very short line straight to the TV (< 25 ft) with no splits, we are going to pick up many / all of the available new digital signals.

Any thoughts on whether this is going to work? Is it likely we are losing much of the signal in the 300ohm ribbon cable and that the RG-8 will fix it?

Is it more likely that my big old roof top antenna will work better than any of the smaller low profile ones that are available?

If I take a picture of it would someone be able to identify the frequencies it works for?

Should I consider building my own directional antennae?

I would start with replacing the twin lead first, then go from there. I definately think you are going to see an improvement just by replacing the twin lead alone.

I think you mean RG6 cable which is 75 ohms.

RG8 is 50 ohms.

i went to go switch it out, but its too scary haha. Nothing to hold onto... steep roof.... :eek:

Yup rg6. I am doing my GMRS (462mhz) directional Yagi antenna on Rg8 at the same time here... and confusing myself.

If I take a picture of it would someone be able to identify the frequencies it works for?

More important than a picture would be some dimensions.

If it's like many roof-mounted antennas out there, it covers two or three bands: VHF-low (and FM in the same band), VHF-high, and UHF. VHF-low has the longest wavelength, so it needs the widest elements of a typical rooftop antenna. You'll probably see that the widest part of your antenna is as wide as 95 inches towards the back of the antenna. That's the VHF-low part, and that part will be largely useless for anything but FM reception after February 17.

The next set of elements, in the middle of the antenna or in the front, will be for VHF-high. I don't remember off the top of my head, but that section of the antenna might be two or three feet wide. Many of the stations in our broadcasting area will be using this band after the cut-over date.

If your roof-mounted antenna is a combination VHF/UHF antenna, then it will also have some very tiny elements - a few inches long - for UHF. This will also be vital to HD reception after the cut-over date, as most of the stations will be using these frequencies.

Once you've identified these sections of the antenna, you can *roughly* correlate its performance to the antennas currently available. Take note of the total length of your current antenna for comparison to currently available ones. Also, count the number of VHF-high and UHF elements, disregarding the number of VHF-low elements.

Now compare the number of elements and the length of your antenna to some commercially available VHF-high/UHF antennas. I bought one of Winegard's new line, so I'm familiar with that product line, and I'll recommend it as a point of comparison.

So if you have a 100 inch long antenna, with 38 elements, it might compare well to either a Winegard HD7695P (http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/HD7695P.pdf) or a HD7696P (http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/HD7696P.pdf). Winegard shows the decibel gain for each of these antennas over various frequency ranges in their spec sheets. Make note of those numbers. And if your antenna is substantially different in length and number of elements than the examples I cited, then find a current model that is close and, again, make note of the dB gain specifications.

Next, go to TVfool.com, and enter your location information. Take note of the signal strengths for various stations, as described in NEGATIVE decibel-meters, and add your antenna's approximate POSITIVE gain numbers for equivalent frequencies to those from TVfool. (For example, -80 plus 10 equals -70 at your location with your antenna.) For what it's worth, I'm reliably picking up stations that are showing up with -80 dBm; any less than that, and my reception falls apart quickly. This will give you a rough idea of how you will receive TV stations with that antenna.

And lastly, don't forget the old adage: "your mileage may vary."

So... anyone in this area have experience with the Winegard SquareShooter or MetroStar?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3364957
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3382537

EDIT: Posted that before I read the above post... more reading...

Hello - I am in Bergen county , NJ, Midland Park to be exact. We have an old roof top antenna (I really couldn't tell you what kind, other than that it is big!) and have been getting analog over the air for a while now. There is a long twin ribbon which we eventually (down the line) transform to 75ohm coax. We get a couple digital channels but they are unreliable except for like 7.

My hope is that converting this to RG-8 right at the antenna with an outdoor balun, and running a very short line straight to the TV (< 25 ft) with no splits, we are going to pick up many / all of the available new digital signals.

Any thoughts on whether this is going to work? Is it likely we are losing much of the signal in the 300ohm ribbon cable and that the RG-8 will fix it?

Is it more likely that my big old roof top antenna will work better than any of the smaller low profile ones that are available?

If I take a picture of it would someone be able to identify the frequencies it works for?

Should I consider building my own directional antennae?

If I see a photo of it I can tell you what you have.

If you see elements at the front that are about 3 inches wide then it will receive UHF. I would look at the condition of the 300 ohm lead. If it is chalky dried cracked or crumbles in you hand then it needs to be replaced. If it is ok then it needs to have 3 twist in it per foot. I would not replace the entire run with coax. Coax really has more loss than 300 ohm. But you need to be more careful with 300 ohm. In addition to the 3 twist per foot it needs stand off mounts to keep it from touching any metel surface. First it needs to be confirmed that the anntenna does have UHF elements. Also what is the signal level of the digital channels that you receive & the ones that are in & out. From what you have aready posted I think all you may need is the 12 db amp from K mart. They are about $14.95 each. If the location where you transform to 75ohm coax [like inside an attic or etc] if you have 110 ac,; Then connect the transformer to the input of this amp & plug the coax going to the TV into the out put of that amp. Coax attenuates UHF [where most of the digital stations are now] signals much more than VHF. Thus your signals will need this boost. If you aready get ch 7 digital then you may not need to do much to get the other channels. That aready says a lot about the condition of the antenna system.

Sent me a photo of the antenna & I will tell you what it is

Thanks, here it is:

http://xj.cdevco.net/temp/hdtvantenna.jpg

A few thoughts here:

According to antennaweb, all of these stations are < 25 miles. I would say we have pretty good line of sight. We are up on a hill. All of the NYC ones are less than 20 miles.

I don't think this antenna is even pointing to NYC. Assuming the shorter elements represent where the antenna should be pointing and the longest one goes towards the rear?

I'd love to replace the ribbon with coax, and remove the ribbon hanging on the side of my house (it does seem to have insulated cable holders but I don't see the "twists"), which is pretty ugly. If I should be keeping the ribbon (really?!) I'd like to at least re-route the ribbon inside of the attic near the roof and still be able to remove the ribbon hanging on the side of the house.

I see that on these antennaweb type sites, there's difference compass heading information for pre and post Feb 19. Are the stations that are already broadcasting digital going to be changing the location from which the TX? Am I going to have to re-adjust or re-assess the situation after Feb 19?

I have pretty much decided the going on the roof isn't going to happen so I am going to have to rent or more likely buy a huge ladder either way. I can't tell how big it is without getting closer and I am not ready to die just yet!!!

Finally, I'm not closed to buying a new antenna, but if that is the case I'd love for it to be a little bit of a smaller profile. Also not entirely opposed to a signal amp in the attic, although prefer not to have more "phantom loads" than necessary (rather have a bigger outdoor antenna and not need a booster).

There will be stations moving to the Empire State Building and the Conde Nast Building
(4 Times Square).

You should determine which stations are of interest to you.

If they are in varying locations - from Bergen County, there should not really be a difference between ESB and Conde Nast - you may want to consider a rotor for your antenna's mast.

Thanks, here it is:

http://xj.cdevco.net/temp/hdtvantenna.jpg



There are no UHF elements on that model. (And it's probably ancient -- good luck finding what older model that is!) That will limit you to just a handful of stations after the cross-over date.

A few thoughts here:

According to antennaweb, all of these stations are < 25 miles. I would say we have pretty good line of sight. We are up on a hill. All of the NYC ones are less than 20 miles.

That's all good news. Antennaweb's color-coded antenna recommendations should give you some idea of what size antenna you'll need, but I wouldn't hesitate to go one size larger than their recommendation.

I don't think this antenna is even pointing to NYC. Assuming the shorter elements represent where the antenna should be pointing and the longest one goes towards the rear?

Incorrect orientation is pretty common in this era when most households haven't used their roof-mounted antennas in decades. And yes, the shorter elements are at the front of the antenna.

I'd love to replace the ribbon with coax, and remove the ribbon hanging on the side of my house (it does seem to have insulated cable holders but I don't see the "twists"), which is pretty ugly. If I should be keeping the ribbon (really?!) I'd like to at least re-route the ribbon inside of the attic near the roof and still be able to remove the ribbon hanging on the side of the house.

I don't agree with the advice to retain the ribbon cable. It's very susceptible to interference from all sorts of sources. Do some Google searches, and you'll find that most of the recommendations are for switching to coax. For one such recommendation, see "Transmission cable" here: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html.

I see that on these antennaweb type sites, there's difference compass heading information for pre and post Feb 19. Are the stations that are already broadcasting digital going to be changing the location from which the TX? Am I going to have to re-adjust or re-assess the situation after Feb 19?

SnellKrell covered this, and he was right-on with his advice.

I have pretty much decided the going on the roof isn't going to happen so I am going to have to rent or more likely buy a huge ladder either way. I can't tell how big it is without getting closer and I am not ready to die just yet!!!

There are companies that do these installations. Look up satellite/cable installers in your area.

Finally, I'm not closed to buying a new antenna, but if that is the case I'd love for it to be a little bit of a smaller profile. Also not entirely opposed to a signal amp in the attic, although prefer not to have more "phantom loads" than necessary (rather have a bigger outdoor antenna and not need a booster).

If you get a new antenna and switch to coax, then it might be worth your while to add an antenna-mounted pre-amp to address the signal loss from a long cable run. Modern pre-amps are typically pretty small and they get their power through the same coax that you're already running up to the antenna, so there's a minimum of extra work to do. Read that same page that I referenced above.

Thanks a lot for the replies. I had the same thoughts about switching to coax (not keeping the ribbon). I picked up some RG-6. If it is worth the extra dollars, I can even go quad shield. I am looking at a very short run, from antenna to TV (we only have 1 TV), probably < 25 FT. It sounds like I am going to need a new, real rooftop antenna. Perhaps the HD7210 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882172015.

I noticed WPIX-DT, is VHF, not UHF, and it is one of the channels we enjoy.

http://winegard.com/offair/zone2.htm seems to suggest the HD7000R as the premiere Zone 2 antenna,but I don't see that available anywhere...

Thanks, here it is:

http://xj.cdevco.net/temp/hdtvantenna.jpg

A few thoughts here:

According to antennaweb, all of these stations are < 25 miles. I would say we have pretty good line of sight. We are up on a hill. All of the NYC ones are less than 20 miles.

I don't think this antenna is even pointing to NYC. Assuming the shorter elements represent where the antenna should be pointing and the longest one goes towards the rear?

I'd love to replace the ribbon with coax, and remove the ribbon hanging on the side of my house (it does seem to have insulated cable holders but I don't see the "twists"), which is pretty ugly. If I should be keeping the ribbon (really?!) I'd like to at least re-route the ribbon inside of the attic near the roof and still be able to remove the ribbon hanging on the side of the house.

I see that on these antennaweb type sites, there's difference compass heading information for pre and post Feb 19. Are the stations that are already broadcasting digital going to be changing the location from which the TX? Am I going to have to re-adjust or re-assess the situation after Feb 19?

I have pretty much decided the going on the roof isn't going to happen so I am going to have to rent or more likely buy a huge ladder either way. I can't tell how big it is without getting closer and I am not ready to die just yet!!!

Finally, I'm not closed to buying a new antenna, but if that is the case I'd love for it to be a little bit of a smaller profile. Also not entirely opposed to a signal amp in the attic, although prefer not to have more "phantom loads" than necessary (rather have a bigger outdoor antenna and not need a booster).


That antenna is a channel master crossfire model 3614 VHF suburban range antenna. I have installed many of them at the TV shop I worked years ago.

If you fear going on the roof then I would leave that antenna as is & run the flat lead inside to the amp. Then I would buy a UHF yagi antenna like this one from Radio Shack http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088 and use seperate antennas. I would put the UHF antenna inside the attic. Then obtain a UHF-VHF antenna joiner like http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmjoiner.htm
to joint the antennas together. If you use just a regular T connecter the UHF signal will try to go out the VHF antenna & vis versa thus weaking your signal.

Could you post a list the analog channels you receive with a word or two on each channel for what you see on the screen like 7-great 9-ghosty 11-a little snow 13-a lot of snow and can bearly see the screen. Also do you receive any digital channels through this antenna system. If so are they solid or in & out. Could you list them too. That will provide more information of the condition of the antenna system. In 2006 I was up on a roof & some of the sand on the shingles came lose & I started sliding on the roof. I had to grab the mast & hold on to stop. My suggestion is to cobtain all the information on the current antenna system you have thus see what you have or do not have. Thus see what equipement you will need before going on the roof. With the risk it may be best to use it as it is & add the UHF in the attic.

That Winegard looks good for you. But I'll just point out one thing:

Many of the latest offerings from the major antenna manufacturers are tuned specifically for VHF-high and UHF, with none of the longer (wider, actually) elements that used to be for VHF-low. These newer antennas can be tuned for slightly higher gain and directionality in these two higher bands than what could be done with a three-band TV antenna with equivalent boom length and number of elements in earlier generations. The end result is that the newer antennas are smaller (same length but narrower) with less wind-load than an older model. That 7210 is from a prior generation; a newer model with a similar boom length would be the 7694. It *might* be a marginally better antenna for you.

You're only going to do this once. Well, until a flying tree-branch takes it down, that is! :rolleyes:

Oddly enough before I took it down, I checked on the digital channels (we don't currently watch these, because we haven't set up our digital Tivo yet ,and we watch everything via the Tivo); many were coming in - 2.1 4.1 5.1 7.1 9.1, but not 11.1. According to antennaweb, all of those are UHF not VHF??? I was going to think about trying to hook up that RG6 to the existing antenna, and point it correctly but it just wasn't happening. The existing antenna had 1 bracket bent, so it was being held on via 3 lag screws instead of 4, hence the pointing in the wrong direction. It was all rusted and I just didn't want to be working on int up in the air. We ended up getting the thing to the ground, took a good hour to do it slowly and safely. The thing is huge! We broke a few elements in the process. I'm thinking of re-using the pole though, and the brackets can be salvaged as well.

Is there a place I can find the exact frequencies these stations TX on?

Go to posting #7862 on this thread - "Trip in Virginia" and click on Trip's
Digital Translation Reports link.

Realize that come midnight, 2/17 a number of the current channel frequencies will be changed - Such as 2 goes from 56 to 33; 7 goes from 45 to 7; 11 goes from 33 to 11 and 13 goes from 61 to 13. There are additional changes.

Forget antennaweb about frequencies and rely on Trip, he's more accurate and knowing.

If the mast (pole) and its associated hardware (brackets, etc) are secure and in good shape - use it.

I was just about to chime in and say that David's suggestion is an interesting one, especially so in that it keeps you off the roof! But it doesn't matter now, considering the new state of that antenna.

As for exact frequencies, just Google "tv channel frequencies." Or are you asking about virtual channels (like 7.1) vs real channels (45)? Both of those can be found in the various columns of the charts on antennaweb.org and tvfool.com.

I would just try a bow tie first and see what you get, and if you do get stations,are they all the ones you want? This is the simplest solution, especially if you have good line of sight. Try is indoors first,a nd if thats not good, use a longer cable, and try it outdoors. That way, you'll know for sure if teh roof mount is worthwhile.

I thought I'd share my experience, as I found many of the comments here quite helpful in getting to this point.
Eastern Queens, just past the Clearview Expy. Hooked up the Apex converter box to a simple bowtie from Radio Shack, with a 25 foot RG9 (or whatever I had lying around). Receive nearly every channel in antennaweb, and all the main ones, perfect picture. Antenna is indoors, and works near the TV also.
The Apex is very nice, great controls, easy setup, volume control on remote is nice too. Wont be needing the tv remote except to switch back to the cable wire (we dont have "cable", we have 'free tv' over cable via the internet coax).
Just waiting for the fed funds to clear up to get the other boxes we need.

I was just about to chime in and say that David's suggestion is an interesting one, especially so in that it keeps you off the roof! But it doesn't matter now, considering the new state of that antenna.

As for exact frequencies, just Google "tv channel frequencies." Or are you asking about virtual channels (like 7.1) vs real channels (45)? Both of those can be found in the various columns of the charts on antennaweb.org and tvfool.com.

That is what I call standing in faith Like said "For He shall give his angels charge over thee, to bear thee in all thy ways. They shall bear thee up in their hands lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. " Psalms 91:11 & 12


I agree with rothe about the antenna. You will not need a antenna with the long elements cut for VHF low band. After 2-18-09 they will only provide you is FM radio signal. Other than FM they are a wasted wind load. After you get a new antenna if you feel safe then mount it on the roof like the old one.

I would not put a preamp on it thou. I would try with out it first & see how well your signals are. Then if you are having problems after around 3-1-09 you may want to think about adding a amp. After they remove the analog low band antenna at the ESB, move some of the digital transmitter to the VHF high band channels & some of the UHF channels move up near the tip of the tower, the digital stations will get a much stronger.

If you plan to use a amp, I would still use a indoor amp & not a preamp. Preamps will not carry many strong channels at the same time. Some of the preamps give their specifications with only 4 stations. Since most all the stations are at the EBS they all will be coming in at the same time. Thus if you really get strong signals you could over load the preamp. Indoor amps like the one from Kmart are build to carry many strong channels like you would receive from TV cable with out overlaoding.

If think you may want to use the amp, then I would run the new coax from the antenna to where it would enter in the attic on it's way to the TV. Thus if you add ithe amp the run would be short as possible so you lose very little signal though the rg6 before it gets a boost at the amp.

Also if you know how to cut & terminate rg6 you could cut the coax near the location where it would enter the attic & run the coax inside to the amp. That way if you decide to add the amp later, you can. You would run it to the input on the amp. Then connect the rest of the coax going down to the TV to the output of the amp. Of cource you will need to add F connectors to the coax where you cut it.

You may get your signal strong enough that you do not need a amp. But this way if you do you will not need to go back on the roof to do it.

Another note about pre amps is that they are made for very weak signals. I have seen a case where a customer added a preamp to get a weak distant station. But they also received stronger UHF stations. When the pre amp was added the really made the reception on the screen worse. Also the strong UHF stations came in so strong the were flooded in on 2 or 3 places on the UHF dial. Also the interfered with the good stations they could receive. Thus they got better reception on the screen with out the preamp.

I pray for God's blessings on you while on the roof.

Just to say that channel 4 is running stronger. My mother watched it yesterday on her Apex converter box and it did not pixlate or break up. I was also able to peak it at around 65 to 68. When they remove the low band antenna like you said I hope the digital stations get stronger.

Also when they switch over to digital on 2/17/2009 will you have to do a rescan on your digital TV's and converter boxes?

Yes. WNBC, WNYW, and WWOR won't move, but the rest of the "VHF" stations will.

- Trip

Also when they switch over to digital on 2/17/2009 will you have to do a rescan on your digital TV's and converter boxes?

At what hour they flip the switch off on the analog transmitter I do not know. I think that midnight the analog must be off the air. I have not seen any posting on the site here from any of the station engineers. So I do not know what there plans are or how old the analog VHF high band transsmitters are. If some are of the newer module design, then like for example if WABC analog transmitter can be converted; I assume the would shut the analog down early & begin replacing the modules. Some of the stations have 2 transmitters. If WABC does then they will convert one of them ahead of time.

Thus if the remaining analog fails WABC analog would be off the air until the fixed the transmitter. But before the digital came on the air, WABC would have just switched the failed transmitter down & switched 2nd transmitter on.

If WABC has a spare transmitter they may convert it or may aready have it converted, test & ready to go on the air. If that is the case they they must shut down the analog transmitter & most like trun on a digital transmitter over ch 7. If it is running with out any problems they will shut down the digital UHF transmitter. At that time if you are watching WABC or the next time you watch WABC you will then need to do a rescan.

My guess is that WABC may shut down the analog several hours before the FCC analog drop dead dead line & that they aready have the digital transmitter tested & ready to go on the air over ch 7. They do not there is going to be some station engineers sweating bullets on the 2-17-09 & some stations will be off the air making the change. I think that most will be ready. They will still need to use the temporay digital antennes even after 2-19-09 because they can not take most of the analog antennas down until after 2-19-09 because they are still using them for the low band analog.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/CA6627445.htm

Take a look at this one!

There is a possibility that the government may scrap the 2/17 date for the transition and delay it until June.

At what hour they flip the switch off on the analog transmitter I do not know. I think that midnight the analog must be off the air. I have not seen any posting on the site here from any of the station engineers. So I do not know what there plans are or how old the analog VHF high band transsmitters are. If some are of the newer module design, then like for example if WABC analog transmitter can be converted; I assume the would shut the analog down early & begin replacing the modules. Some of the stations have 2 transmitters. If WABC does then they will convert one of them ahead of time.

Thus if the remaining analog fails WABC analog would be off the air until the fixed the transmitter. But before the digital came on the air, WABC would have just switched the failed transmitter down & switched 2nd transmitter on.

If WABC has a spare transmitter they may convert it or may aready have it converted, test & ready to go on the air. If that is the case they they must shut down the analog transmitter & most like trun on a digital transmitter over ch 7. If it is running with out any problems they will shut down the digital UHF transmitter. At that time if you are watching WABC or the next time you watch WABC you will then need to do a rescan.

My guess is that WABC may shut down the analog several hours before the FCC analog drop dead dead line & that they aready have the digital transmitter tested & ready to go on the air over ch 7. They do not there is going to be some station engineers sweating bullets on the 2-17-09 & some stations will be off the air making the change. I think that most will be ready. They will need to use the temporay digital antennes even after the change because they can not take most of the analog down until after 2-19-09 because they are stil using them for the low band analog.


YOu don't have to wonder...

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=694872

At what hour they flip the switch off on the analog transmitter I do not know. I think that midnight the analog must be off the air. I have not seen any posting on the site here from any of the station engineers. So I do not know what there plans are or how old the analog VHF high band transsmitters are. If some are of the newer module design, then like for example if WABC analog transmitter can be converted; I assume the would shut the analog down early & begin replacing the modules. Some of the stations have 2 transmitters. If WABC does then they will convert one of them ahead of time.

Thus if the remaining analog fails WABC analog would be off the air until the fixed the transmitter. But before the digital came on the air, WABC would have just switched the failed transmitter down & switched 2nd transmitter on.

If WABC has a spare transmitter they may convert it or may aready have it converted, test & ready to go on the air. If that is the case they they must shut down the analog transmitter & most like trun on a digital transmitter over ch 7. If it is running with out any problems they will shut down the digital UHF transmitter. At that time if you are watching WABC or the next time you watch WABC you will then need to do a rescan.

My guess is that WABC may shut down the analog several hours before the FCC analog drop dead dead line & that they aready have the digital transmitter tested & ready to go on the air over ch 7. They do not there is going to be some station engineers sweating bullets on the 2-17-09 & some stations will be off the air making the change. I think that most will be ready. They will need to use the temporay digital antennes even after the change because they can not take most of the analog down until after 2-19-09 because they are stil using them for the low band analog.

If the transition takes place on 2/17 it will be at midnight.

All of your supposition concerning WABC is clearly spelled out in detail in the station's filing with the Commission.

If you're interested, go to post #7904 in this tread - "Trip in Virginia" -
click on "Digital Transition Reports."

Then click on WABC's filing.

At the bottom of the official FCC form you will see the link to the Exhibit.

Enjoy!

If the transition takes place on 2/17 it will be at midnight.

All of your supposition concerning WABC is clearly spelled out in detail in the station's filing with the Commission.

If you're interested, go to post #7904 in this tread - "Trip in Virginia" -
click on "Digital Transition Reports."

Then click on WABC's filing.

At the bottom of the official FCC form you will see the link to the Exhibit.

Enjoy!

Thanks for the info.

btw It looks like they are ready for digital. It would seem to me delaying the cut over will just cost more money with the stations running two transmitter & etc. I am sure they are looking forward to shutting down the analog so they could save electric cost.

Hi,

An AVS Forum Newbie here. I live in Poughkeepsie, NY, which appears to be in a broadcast vacuum. According to the various FCC Service maps, my house is about 8 miles north of the service area for the New York City stations, about 5 miles south of the Albany stations and about 5 miles West of the Hartford stations. In all cases, I'm about 60-70 miles from the various broadcast antennas. Is there any hope that with a newer (better) antenna, I might be able to pick up the digital transmissions from any of these stations?

I currently can receive the following analog stations (WABC, WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, WPIX, WNET) using a very old attic-mounted antenna of unknown make. In all cases the signals have light-to-moderate snow (WPIX and WNET have heavy snow at times). TVfool.com and antennaweb.com both suggest that I should have better luck with the Albany stations, but of those I can only pick up WXXA-TV (23) and the quality is comparable to the NYC stations.

Can anyone explain why I can get NYC stations, but not Albany stations? It's possible that my antenna is VHF only, but I should still get Channel 10 from Albany. Any thoughts?

As for digital, I currently receive the local stations WTBY (27) and WRNN (48), but cannot receive any signal from NYC or Albany. Is it worth it for me to invest in a better Antenna, or will I still fail to receive the weaker Digital Signals?

Plug your information into TVFool.com and post the results here. That'll give us here a better idea of your situation.

- Trip

You really never know until you go through the expense, time and trouble of installing a new antenna.

First, do you want to receive stations from Albany, NYC and Hartford/New Haven?

If so, I would suggest a rotor mounted on an outdoor antenna placed as high as possible on your property - you probably will need a good, low-noise preamp.

Do others in your neighborhood have an outdoor antenna?

If so, ask what they are using, which channels they receive and how satisfield they are with their reception.

Unless you're a confirmed do-it-yourselfer, deal with a local merchant who knows the terrain.

Concerning Channel 10, WTEN it will be moving to Channel 26 and is supposed to reach a bit more than 50 miles.

Wish you well!

Hi,

An AVS Forum Newbie here. I live in Poughkeepsie, NY, which appears to be in a broadcast vacuum. According to the various FCC Service maps, my house is about 8 miles north of the service area for the New York City stations, about 5 miles south of the Albany stations and about 5 miles West of the Hartford stations. In all cases, I'm about 60-70 miles from the various broadcast antennas. Is there any hope that with a newer (better) antenna, I might be able to pick up the digital transmissions from any of these stations?

I currently can receive the following analog stations (WABC, WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, WPIX, WNET) using a very old attic-mounted antenna of unknown make. In all cases the signals have light-to-moderate snow (WPIX and WNET have heavy snow at times). TVfool.com and antennaweb.com both suggest that I should have better luck with the Albany stations, but of those I can only pick up WXXA-TV (23) and the quality is comparable to the NYC stations.

Can anyone explain why I can get NYC stations, but not Albany stations? It's possible that my antenna is VHF only, but I should still get Channel 10 from Albany. Any thoughts?

As for digital, I currently receive the local stations WTBY (27) and WRNN (48), but cannot receive any signal from NYC or Albany. Is it worth it for me to invest in a better Antenna, or will I still fail to receive the weaker Digital Signals?

go to http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html then type the call sign in of the station you want to see. Then press go. It list out the stations; Both the analog & the digital will be listed. Choose the one that says DT. The go down the the link
Service Contour Map (41 dBu) then click on it. That will show you a map showiing the range of the station. It will not take in to account of ground height thou. You could have a clear shot at the ESB & hills blocking Albany. So you will need to find a topographice map. That will show the hills around you. If you have a digital camara, take a photo of it & post it here. We can tell you what kind of antenna you have. Also what kind of lead do you have for your antenna wire? Is there an amp of any kind on the antenna wire? I assume that some one else installed this antenna. They may have wanted the NYC stations & have it pointed to the ESB.

Hi,

An AVS Forum Newbie here. I live in Poughkeepsie, NY, which appears to be in a broadcast vacuum. According to the various FCC Service maps, my house is about 8 miles north of the service area for the New York City stations, about 5 miles south of the Albany stations and about 5 miles West of the Hartford stations. In all cases, I'm about 60-70 miles from the various broadcast antennas. Is there any hope that with a newer (better) antenna, I might be able to pick up the digital transmissions from any of these stations?



First off, mount the antenna outside and test it. And make sure you are using RG6 cable. Try to keep the cable as short as possible. That is the cheapest way right now to find out rather than go through the expense of buying all the stuff only to find out it does not work.
Is it possible to post a pic of what kind of antenna you have?

I'm relatively new to the area (moved here in 2007). So far, I haven't found any neighbors trying to get OTA television. Most people have Cable/Satellite/FiOS. I'm trying to determine if I'll have to do the same after the DTV transition.

I'll try to post a picture of my antenna in a future post. I actually have two antenna's in my attic. One, which is not currently connected, appears to have a pre-amp labeled "Taco Electric 19001". Has anybody heard of this? I don't have the power supply, so I'm doubtful that I could get it to work, but if somebody recognizes it, let me know if it's something I should bother with.

The other antenna was originally connected with ~40ft of Twinlead cable. However, I recently replaced this with ~40ft of RG-6 Coax, connected through a Balun to about 8 inches of the Twinlead cable which connects directly to the antenna. Is there a better way to connect the RG-6 coax? Also, would a pre-amp help reduce losses from this relatively long cable run?

Unfortunately, there's not really room in the attic to re-orient the antenna, so I'm pretty much stuck with what I've got unless I move it outside.

I'll post TVFool.com results in a little later, when the AVSforum stops thinking that I'm a spammer.

Any word on the implication for our OTA reception if the switchover gets delayed (other than the obvious implications)? In other words, with all the antenna work being done on the ESB now, I am curious what, if anything, would happen as a result of an unanticipated delay of the switchover?

What do your analogs look like? Particularly channel 41 (Univision in New York), channels 10 and 17 or 23 from Albany? That can tell a lot about what your digital reception will be like.

- Trip

I've been told that the FCC has already sold the part of the spectrum which TV will abandon. That said delaying the date of analog shut down might open the government to lawsuits. The delay would also cause extra expenses for broadcasters who willl have to maintain extra transmitters and pay their extra electric bills as well as rent at some transmitter locations. I think the idea of a delay is a nice thought but in reality, the switch to all digital has been delayed years already, first by the events of 9-11-2001.

I'm relatively new to the area (moved here in 2007). So far, I haven't found any neighbors trying to get OTA television. Most people have Cable/Satellite/FiOS. I'm trying to determine if I'll have to do the same after the DTV transition.

I'll try to post a picture of my antenna in a future post. I actually have two antenna's in my attic. One, which is not currently connected, appears to have a pre-amp labeled "Taco Electric 19001". Has anybody heard of this? I don't have the power supply, so I'm doubtful that I could get it to work, but if somebody recognizes it, let me know if it's something I should bother with.

The other antenna was originally connected with ~40ft of Twinlead cable. However, I recently replaced this with ~40ft of RG-6 Coax, connected through a Balun to about 8 inches of the Twinlead cable which connects directly to the antenna. Is there a better way to connect the RG-6 coax? Also, would a pre-amp help reduce losses from this relatively long cable run?

Unfortunately, there's not really room in the attic to re-orient the antenna, so I'm pretty much stuck with what I've got unless I move it outside.

I'll post TVFool.com results in a little later, when the AVSforum stops thinking that I'm a spammer.


Take a look around the house & see about a location to mount a antenna. Do you have a chimmy or a gable. There are some gable mounts that have 2 brackets. Thus you do not have a pipe going down to the ground like a wall mount does.

Also do you have a 110 ac outlet in your attic.

If you do a 12 db amp from K mart is about $14.95 each. At the location where you transform to 75ohm coax connect the transformer to the input of this amp & plug the coax going to the TV into the out put of that amp.

300 ohm need stand off mounts to keep it 3 twist per foot so it will sheild it self & not pick up any interfernce.

If the analog channels that you now receive from the ESB @ NYC do not have any ghost, then iwould try this amp & see if it will boost the weak signals for the digital stations you would like to receive from NYC. The may be coming in on your antenna but are not strong enough to overcome the loss of the coax. This amp may help.

Any word on the implication for our OTA reception if the switchover gets delayed (other than the obvious implications)? In other words, with all the antenna work being done on the ESB now, I am curious what, if anything, would happen as a result of an unanticipated delay of the switchover?

I think it would cause a botched up mess.

Also cost the stations more money.

This is about like being on a diving board at a swimming pool & your are running to to jump off the end & some one says stop.

It is too late to change the date now.

What do your analogs look like? Particularly channel 41 (Univision in New York), channels 10 and 17 or 23 from Albany? That can tell a lot about what your digital reception will be like.
- Trip

I don't get any UHV channels out of NYC, so no channel 41. What I get is the following:

2 - WCBS - Best Reception, clear to light snow.
4 - WNBC - Marginal Reception, light to moderate snow, occasionally heavy snow.
5 - WNYW - Good Reception, clear to moderate snow
7 - WABC - Marginal Reception (about like 4)
9 - WWOR - Good Reception, clear to moderate snow
11 - WPIX - Poor (worse than 4), often heavy snow
13 - WNET - Poorest reception, usually not watchable, but occasionally has only light snow.
23 - WXXA - Marginal, light to heavy snow
27 - WTBY-DT - Good Reception of digital signal
42 - W42AE - Good analog signal
48 - WRNN-DT - Good Reception of digital signal

Here's a picture of my antenna:

http://home.earthlink.net/~matt.stoker/100_2400.JPG

Here's the second antenna that I'm not currently using:

http://home.earthlink.net/~matt.stoker/100_2399.JPG

Also, here's the TVfool.com output for my location:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dab50ac4a57

Here's a picture of my antenna:

http://home.earthlink.net/~matt.stoker/100_2400.JPG

Here's the second antenna that I'm not currently using:

http://home.earthlink.net/~matt.stoker/100_2399.JPG

Also, here's the TVfool.com output for my location:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dab50ac4a57

The 2nd antenna photo looks like a channel master FM antenna I once had.

the 1st antenna photo Looks like a broad band VHF but I see some loops that may be UHF. So it may ccover UHF as well.

Since you aready are receiving some UHF channels I would first

1- if your TV or tuner has a signal level display I would write down the signal level of the digital channels.

2-dissconect the 300 ohm wire & remove it from those sand off mounts. Twist the wire to have 3 twist per foot while you reinstall it in the stand off mount & reconnect it to the antenna.

3- check the digital signal levels & check & to see if it improved & also check your analog l & see if what you see on the screen is better.

Your TVFool plot makes me think that your best bet is to try for Albany and not waste too much time on New York. Once the stations are on the Freedom Tower (extra height) you might try for it again, but if you're not getting 41 analog from New York... that station is basically the beacon I'd use to figure out what reception will be like.

- Trip

Trip -

The Freedom Tower might not be ready for transmissions until 2012-2013, if then.

Also, the Richland SFN test has been very impressive and the Commission is very interested in this technology - specifically since there's a lot grumbling around about
the overestimation of digital signals' coverage in urban areas.

The CEO of ION, part of the test, estimated a tremendous savings if stations were to go SFN vs. Freedom Tower - and considering today's and probably tomorrow's economic problems and the way stations are hurting, there's a chance the Freedom Tower won't have many broadcast tenants.

Trip -

The Freedom Tower might not be ready for transmissions until 2012-2013, if then.

Also, the Richland SFN test has been very impressive and the Commission is very interested in this technology - specifically since there's a lot grumbling around about
the overestimation of digital signals' coverage in urban areas.

The CEO of ION, part of the test, estimated a tremendous savings if stations were to go SFN vs. Freedom Tower - and considering today's and probably tomorrow's economic problems and the way stations are hurting, there's a chance the Freedom Tower won't have many broadcast tenants.

Even with the current location the signals will be much stronger after the analog is shut down. Most of the analog was side mounts with the elments mounted on the side & much lower. But they were installed back before the broad band broadcast antennas were avaiable. Back then who ever got the top was the higest & had the strongest signal. The rest of the stations had to mount on the side lower down wiht weaker signals. Now die electric manufacters broad band antennas that can be stacked on top of each other like you would connect to 10 foot sections of pipe they can put both antennas on the top insead of one on top & one on the side.

So all of the UHF can share the top mounted antenna & the same for the VHF high band antennas.

I can not think of any place else that would be so well improved by the DTV as much as it in NYC @ ESB. Other places where there are many 2000 foot tower & high mountains there is is a lot of space for all the extra antennas, transmitters & etc. Thus extending the analog cut off is not as bad. I compare analog TV & DTV like AM radio & FM. With the great improvment of the new modulation why would you waste the electricity in the old modulation. Like I wonder why the FCC did not require all AM radio stations to remove the lower side band instead of having 2 sidebnads just like each other. They could be saving electricty & bandwidth. I do understand the is a TV forum & not a frequency forum, but with the shortage of frequency bandwidth you would think they would be trying to finish this DTV project thus vacating more frequencys. But that is why I am here & not in Washington D.C.

I took my rebate card to RS today and got the digistream converter. So far, it's great. I get medium signal from an inside rabbit ear, but get every channel we watched before....

except WLIW and WNET, or favorite channels. We never got WLIW that well, but WNET was good, and now gone! I'm in central Queens. Anyone else having these troubles?

I live in a rowhouse wired with coax, so I've tried the antenna all over the house, to no avail. How do I get PBS back!!

WNET is at very low power until the transition. They're notorious for signal issues. (12.4 kW versus the 160 kW or more everyone else is running)

I think the way to manually tune the Digital Stream box is to use the dot key (for specifying subchannels) and then put in the channel number you want. So put in .61 (since WNET is currently on channel 61) and try moving your antenna around, see if that works for you.

- Trip

Thanks Trip.

On .61 I can get still frames. Oh well, hopefully it will get better after the switch.

As for WLIW, try .22 as that's where WLIW would be. That one will see a significant power boost after the transition.

- Trip

Thanks Trip.

On .61 I can get still frames. Oh well, hopefully it will get better after the switch.

Is there a UHF bow ring on your rabbit ears?

If not you may need to try a bow tie. It will snap on to one of your rabbit ears telescoping rod.

Well, I flipped my antenna 180 degrees to point it North toward Albany, rather than south toward NYC. The good news is that I am able to receive 12-WNYT-DT (NBC) from Albany. The signal is marginal, but watchable (has a short audio or picture glitch about once per minute). My converter box shows the signal at about 40%. The bad news is that the NYC analog signals are now either very snowy or unwatchable. I do pick up a couple more Albany analog stations (6 and 10), but even these aren't as good as the NYC stations when the antenna points south.

I am now very suspicious that my antenna is not suitable for UHF, as I am still unable to receive any UHF stations from Albany. I suspect this is the real reason why I am unable to receive any NYC digital stations. So, if I want to upgrade my UHF capabilities am I better off buying a combo UHF/VHF antenna or can I just buy a UHF antenna and link it in with my existing VHF antenna? If the latter, how do I connect these?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Well, I flipped my antenna 180 degrees to point it North toward Albany, rather than south toward NYC. The good news is that I am able to receive 12-WNYT-DT (NBC) from Albany. The signal is marginal, but watchable (has a short audio or picture glitch about once per minute). My converter box shows the signal at about 40%. The bad news is that the NYC analog signals are now either very snowy or unwatchable. I do pick up a couple more Albany analog stations (6 and 10), but even these aren't as good as the NYC stations when the antenna points south.

I am now very suspicious that my antenna is not suitable for UHF, as I am still unable to receive any UHF stations from Albany. I suspect this is the real reason why I am unable to receive any NYC digital stations. So, if I want to upgrade my UHF capabilities am I better off buying a combo UHF/VHF antenna or can I just buy a UHF antenna and link it in with my existing VHF antenna? If the latter, how do I connect these?


Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


Which city do you want to get the stations from?

I have found some VHF high band UHF comb antennas on web. But I have not see where you can buy then in person. But that is all you really need for the NYC stations. You can use the VHF antenna but you will need the get a UHF antenna like this one

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088


& you will need to connect them together with a antenna coupler
http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master-0549-UHF-Coupler/dp/B0013CLVIY

This one will not llet the antennas interfere with one another. Some of the joiners will make the antennas intefere & loand one another.

You can get other UHF antennes like this one but are longer to get a pick up weaker signals.

Also are you going to keep the antenna in the attic or move it to the roof.

How high is your antenna when in the attic.?

Do you plan to boost the signals with a amp?

I highly recommend the winegard HD 7694. I have been extremely impressed with it (and I keep it up in the attic). If you need something a little stronger, winegard has similar models with more elements. I got mine at Buy-dot-com for really cheap and free shipping.

I think the way to manually tune the Digital Stream box is to use the dot key (for specifying subchannels) and then put in the channel number you want. So put in .61 (since WNET is currently on channel 61) and try moving your antenna around, see if that works for you.

- Trip

That is one flaw with the Apex converter box I got my mother for Christmas. You have to do a scan and then if it misses channels and you put them on there real channel numbers it says invalid channels. It is a pain because you have to keep doing a rescan and it does not even remember the channels you did the last scan on. My TV I can input the real channel and then move the antenna to try to lock in a picture.

It is a good converter box and it pulls in the digital stations fine. Has much information about the signal strength but if I knew of that flaw I would have paid more and got the Zenith box which you can input the real channel number and try to lock in a signal.

That is one flaw with the Apex converter box I got my mother for Christmas. You have to do a scan and then if it misses channels and you put them on there real channel numbers it says invalid channels. It is a pain because you have to keep doing a rescan and it does not even remember the channels you did the last scan on. My TV I can input the real channel and then move the antenna to try to lock in a picture.

It is a good converter box and it pulls in the digital stations fine. Has much information about the signal strength but if I knew of that flaw I would have paid more and got the Zenith box which you can input the real channel number and try to lock in a signal.

I have that box and am fully aware. =/ It really sucks, because it has a better chip in it than even the Zenith has!

- Trip

Does anyone have experience with the Antennas Direct C4 ClearStream4? I like it's small size, which means I could rotate it in the Attic to get both NYC and Albany stations. However, it's probably just on the borderline of what I need (65 mile range). I'd eventually like to mount it on the roof, but I probably won't get to that until the summer.

Would the C4 be adequate, or do I probably need either an 8-bay antenna, like the CM4228 or a Yagi/corner reflector like the CM4248 (or Antennas Direct 91XG)? I would be happy getting either the major NYC or the major Albany stations, both of which seem to be all clustered at a singe site, so a highly directional antenna seems like the way to go.

Trip -

The Freedom Tower might not be ready for transmissions until 2012-2013, if then.

Also, the Richland SFN test has been very impressive and the Commission is very interested in this technology - specifically since there's a lot grumbling around about
the overestimation of digital signals' coverage in urban areas.

The CEO of ION, part of the test, estimated a tremendous savings if stations were to go SFN vs. Freedom Tower - and considering today's and probably tomorrow's economic problems and the way stations are hurting, there's a chance the Freedom Tower won't have many broadcast tenants.



Don't even take bets they'll finish it by then. If any of you are old enough to remember it took FOREVER to make the World Trade Center

Don't even take bets they'll finish it by then. If any of you are old enough to remember it took FOREVER to make the World Trade Center

I've mentioned this before, but I hope you'll agree it's worth repeating.

The Empire State Building's first steel was installed on March 17, 1930.

The building was open to accept tenants on May 1, 1931!

No computers, no helicopters, no modern day technology.

We've lost a lot along the way!!!!

I've mentioned this before, but I hope you'll agree it's worth repeating.

The Empire State Building's first steel was installed on March 17, 1930.

The building was open to accept tenants on May 1, 1931!

No computers, no helicopters, no modern day technology.

We've lost a lot along the way!!!!

Damn right. That's when people wanted to work. They couldn't resurface 1 mile of the FDR drive in 14 months. Now all you see are cones with 1 guy working and 9 others standing around and it's been 80 years since they first approved the 2nd avenue subway and all they have to show is a few miles of track and stations

Does anyone have experience with the Antennas Direct C4 ClearStream4? I like it's small size, which means I could rotate it in the Attic to get both NYC and Albany stations. However, it's probably just on the borderline of what I need (65 mile range). I'd eventually like to mount it on the roof, but I probably won't get to that until the summer.

Would the C4 be adequate, or do I probably need either an 8-bay antenna, like the CM4228 or a Yagi/corner reflector like the CM4248 (or Antennas Direct 91XG)? I would be happy getting either the major NYC or the major Albany stations, both of which seem to be all clustered at a singe site, so a highly directional antenna seems like the way to go.


I would go with the Yagi/corner reflector like the CM4248. The 8 bay the elements are out of phase thus causing multipath distortion. This caused ghost on analog but it did not stop the tv frome demodulating the signal so you could still watch it. Unless the multipath distortion was so bad it made the screen roll & unwatchable. DTV is unforgiving & will make it go in & out. Also the Yagi/corner reflector should be better not picking up the stationd from the back & the side. So you may be able to buy 2 antennas & leave them pointed to both cities.

Here's a picture of my antenna:

http://home.earthlink.net/~matt.stoker/100_2400.JPG

Here's the second antenna that I'm not currently using:

http://home.earthlink.net/~matt.stoker/100_2399.JPG

Also, here's the TVfool.com output for my location:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dab50ac4a57

To add some encouragement, I am 60+ miles from the ESB.
I get WCBS, WNYW, WNBC, and 9 WWOR, WXTV, and something blocky on channel 25 WNYE. I also get WLIW.
I used to get WABC but it vanished on me a couple of months ago. I look forward to seeing it again next month.
I use a CM4248 yagi and a CM preamp. I don't remember the model, but it has two 300 ohm inputs and a 75 ohm output. I have the yagi in the "UHF IN" and a VHF combo on the "VHF IN" side (preamp discards the UHF from the combo antenna).
My TVfool output is:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5dd84400bd

I've mentioned this before, but I hope you'll agree it's worth repeating.

The Empire State Building's first steel was installed on March 17, 1930.

The building was open to accept tenants on May 1, 1931!

No computers, no helicopters, no modern day technology.

We've lost a lot along the way!!!!

I've got a better example: Yankee Stadium

First built in 1922 completed in time for the 1923 season and held 75,000.
Second remodeling took the better parts of 2 and half years from the end of 1973 to the very beginning of 1976 and seated 57,545.
The third building of it albeit a new entire stadium has taken more than 3 years, and as Keith Oblermann has stated they are leaving the old stadium up and intact at least for the beginning of 2009, just in case the weather turns worse for us here and they can't complete the new one by April 16th. Just ridiculous with all those tax payer dollars they can't get a non domed stadium done in less time than it took to get both incarnations of the prior two, plus it seats less than the prior two at under 55,000.

To add some encouragement, I am 60+ miles from the ESB.
I get WCBS, WNYW, WNBC, and 9 WWOR, WXTV, and something blocky on channel 25 WNYE. I also get WLIW.
I used to get WABC but it vanished on me a couple of months ago. I look forward to seeing it again next month.
I use a CM4248 yagi and a CM preamp. I don't remember the model, but it has two 300 ohm inputs and a 75 ohm output. I have the yagi in the "UHF IN" and a VHF combo on the "VHF IN" side (preamp discards the UHF from the combo antenna).
My TVfool output is:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5dd84400bd


WOW you made a wise decision.

You are using the filters of the preamp to combine the UHF & VHF through the VHF & UHF ports on the preamp. That preamp will have a lower noise floor level than a single port VHF/UHF preamp. Finaly this preamp will prevent you from getting unwanted signals from the antenna that it was not intended to receive. Like UHF on the VHF antenna & vise-versa.

I guess you kept the VHF antenna you had before. That looked like a high gain, high quality & high price antenna.

I will be glad to hear how it does after 2-17-09 how well you receive the VHF high band when stations like WABC move DTV to VHF HB.

WOW you made a wise decision.

You are using the filters of the preamp to combine the UHF & VHF through the VHF & UHF ports on the preamp. That preamp will have a lower noise floor level than a single port VHF/UHF preamp. Finaly this preamp will prevent you from getting unwanted signals from the antenna that it was not intended to receive. Like UHF on the VHF antenna & vise-versa.

I guess you kept the VHF antenna you had before. That looked like a high gain, high quality & high price antenna.

I will be glad to hear how it does after 2-17-09 how well you receive the VHF high band when stations like WABC move DTV to VHF HB.

Actually, my combo antenna is a CM-3020, but I needed something more directional on UHF and added the CM4248 and used the pre-amp as the combiner totally by mistake as I meant to order the single 300ohm connection pre-amp.
In the end this has worked out pretty well for me, so I posted my info and hopefully it will help SemiChemE as our distances are very similar.

Looks like all the major networks tonight at 7Pm broadcasted the switch to digital fake static thing again tonight.

the worst thing is while I have a digital tuner for my PC I don't have any for my non digital tv's and I lost my DTV card I sent away for.. so I went to get a 2nd one for the 2nd tv and thats when i found out they ran out of money..

Oh well.. I plan on getting rid of the Sony 27" and getting a Samsung 20" for the living room.

hmm must of been a FCC mandated warning tonight? First time I seen it on all the major networks.

I've mentioned this before, but I hope you'll agree it's worth repeating.

The Empire State Building's first steel was installed on March 17, 1930.

The building was open to accept tenants on May 1, 1931!

No computers, no helicopters, no modern day technology.

We've lost a lot along the way!!!!

Yeah I saw that awhile ago that is very impressive given it's size... I got tired of all the fighting and bickering with the current freedom tower.. they would of been 3 years ahead if it were not for all the arguments

To add some encouragement, I am 60+ miles from the ESB.
I get WCBS, WNYW, WNBC, and 9 WWOR, WXTV, and something blocky on channel 25 WNYE. I also get WLIW.
I used to get WABC but it vanished on me a couple of months ago. I look forward to seeing it again next month.
I use a CM4248 yagi and a CM preamp. I don't remember the model, but it has two 300 ohm inputs and a 75 ohm output. I have the yagi in the "UHF IN" and a VHF combo on the "VHF IN" side (preamp discards the UHF from the combo antenna).
My TVfool output is:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5dd84400bd


The 300 ohm will give you less loss. On UHF you need to twist the wire 3 twist per food. That will keep any unwanted signals from being picked up by the 300 ohm wire. Since you have a 300 ohm input to the preamp, it should be a direct run from the antenna terminal to the peramp terminal; Thus you have no losses like you would if there was a 300 ohm to 75 ohm transformer & all the connections. So what you have ended up wiht is an ideal instalation.

Any updates at their status? I still can't get a decent signal from them (and as stated before, I get over 90% signal from all the other channels so I know its not my antenna).

I'm 30 miles west of ESB in the hills of Morris Cty with an Outdoor antenna and I just checked my signal strength for 31.1 and it is at 86%.

Hello,

I just wanted to thank everyone for the help (and prayers I wouldn't kill myself on the roof!)

I ended up going for a Winegard HD-1080 - this was after I did a test with a very cheap rabbit ear antenna in my attic and picked up quite a few channels with OK strength. I mounted the HD-1080 on a 10 foot pole, and its mounted on my eave with as much pipe sticking up as I thought was safe. I re-used my old brackets with new stainless steel hardware. Ran RG-6 from balun on antenna straight to TV. I can actually cut probably another 10 feet out of the RG6 (it's maybe a 35 foot run now) when I get around to it. Total cost was $55 including antenna, new hardware, old RG6, old pipe, old brackets.

We are pointing pointing at roughly 170 degrees, dialed in with a compass.

I was able to avoid the roof and ladder entirely this time by removing both the top and bottom double hung windows on my eave and do everything from up there!

I went through the signal strength on the main broadcast networks digital channels and they range from 86% to 99%. We are getting all but 1 channel listed in AntennaWeb. We might pick that one up at Feb 19. It is PBS in Montclair NJ, which we might enjoy. We'll worry about that in February...

Thanks again!!!

Wait until the transition, whenever that will take place, you may not need PBS out of Montclair.

It's sister station, WNJB licensed to New Brunswick - digital channel 8, by way of strange lobbying and the FCC's weird decisions, will be transmitting from the Conde Nast Building, 4 Times Square in Manhattan.

Hello,

I just wanted to thank everyone for the help (and prayers I wouldn't kill myself on the roof!)

I ended up going for a Winegard HD-1080 - this was after I did a test with a very cheap rabbit ear antenna in my attic and picked up quite a few channels with OK strength. I mounted the HD-1080 on a 10 foot pole, and its mounted on my eave with as much pipe sticking up as I thought was safe. I re-used my old brackets with new stainless steel hardware. Ran RG-6 from balun on antenna straight to TV. I can actually cut probably another 10 feet out of the RG6 (it's maybe a 35 foot run now) when I get around to it. Total cost was $55 including antenna, new hardware, old RG6, old pipe, old brackets.

We are pointing pointing at roughly 170 degrees, dialed in with a compass.

I was able to avoid the roof and ladder entirely this time by removing both the top and bottom double hung windows on my eave and do everything from up there!

I went through the signal strength on the main broadcast networks digital channels and they range from 86% to 99%. We are getting all but 1 channel listed in AntennaWeb. We might pick that one up at Feb 19. It is PBS in Montclair NJ, which we might enjoy. We'll worry about that in February...

Thanks again!!!

Tha is great. You really are better off with out a preamp if you can avoid it. When portable battry powered DTV TVs get to be around at a good price, If you buy one it will work even when the power is off when you conect it to this antenna.

I'm 30 miles west of ESB in the hills of Morris Cty with an Outdoor antenna and I just checked my signal strength for 31.1 and it is at 86%.

As I live in Northern NJ, this indicates that ION is not currently broadcasting from ESB but rather from somewhere in NJ. Maybe when ION goes back to the ESB reception will improve.

According to Rabbit Ears it broadcasts from the ESB. Do you know for sure it moved? Even if it did, Bergen County would still be closer than I am...however it may be related to where your antenna is pointed..

I think WPXN is supposed to be on Empire until the transition, at which point it will operate from New Jersey for a few weeks until they get their analog 31 transmitter converted into a digital transmitter. They haven't mentioned anything to the FCC about moving sooner, not that their 387s have been terribly detailed.

- Trip

According to Rabbit Ears it broadcasts from the ESB. Do you know for sure it moved? Even if it did, Bergen County would still be closer than I am...however it may be related to where your antenna is pointed..

yeh, I think it relates to my antenna orientation. If I adjust my antenna to face southern NJ (as opposed to ESB) than I can pick up ION much better - but I would rather just leave it aimed at ESB and deal with crappy reception of ION.

I can never get ION. Not even a little pixel no matter if they are in NJ or on the ESB.

yeh, I think it relates to my antenna orientation. If I adjust my antenna to face southern NJ (as opposed to ESB) than I can pick up ION much better - but I would rather just leave it aimed at ESB and deal with crappy reception of ION.

Strange.. I get ION aiming at ESB. Will check tonight, if they changed anything.

Strange.. I get ION aiming at ESB. Will check tonight, if they changed anything.

They may have a weak tube

Watching octopussy now in ion. Seems they are doing all the Bond (Roger Moore) movie every Thu this month.

bah I still can't find my DTV coupon so I'm just going to buy a box.. i'm curious on what I can and can't get with this apartment antenna.

Anyone watching channel 9? I don't know if the station is having issues but law & order SVU is on and the channel breaks up like a digital signal and the screen blanks out but the sound will still play and then when the theme music plays sounds almost like the audio track is slagging.

Same thing happened with the screen going to black during the 8 - 9 p.m. show.

Same thing happened with the screen going to black during the 8 - 9 p.m. show. same here

Another question is WNYZ-LP still broadcasting? it's a dance radio station which was pretty interesting when i looked it up online I was thinking they must of been really close to me but really they are not at all.

it's on VHF ch 6 but I have not heard anything in weeks..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNYZ-LP

Another question is WNYZ-LP still broadcasting? it's a dance radio station which was pretty interesting when i looked it up online I was thinking they must of been really close to me but really they are not at all.

it's on VHF ch 6 but I have not heard anything in weeks..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNYZ-LP

It's still there, limited signal and all.

hmm interesting how on days it comes in really clear without static and now I don't get anything at all but static lol

well tomorrow is the big day and the big test going to try recording the actives in D.C. in HD.. so far I don't and have not been loosing my signal as bad as it was like a month ago.. only station I do is CBS.. but last time I checked CBS never had anything good on..

way short on hard drive space however.

Speaking of WPXN, they have a serious audio problem. I am only getting the left channel.

my Insignia box arrived today.. I get no channels with the apartment antenna and with my silver sensor i get 20 channels but what I have noticed take channel 2 WCBS during the day time I get all kinds of signal break up's but at night like right now my signal is 90% but during the day it's only 20-35%

Your experiencing tropospheric conditions, that's normal. Your apartment antenna is probably VHF only thus you don't get any of the digital channels on it yet.

my Insignia box arrived today.. I get no channels with the apartment antenna and with my silver sensor i get 20 channels but what I have noticed take channel 2 WCBS during the day time I get all kinds of signal break up's but at night like right now my signal is 90% but during the day it's only 20-35%

I do not think any one is yet transmitting digital from the VHF high band at the ESB yet. If they leave the cut date at 2-17-09, you will receive many more from the apartment antenna when they start using tyhe VHF high band for digital.

btw
Something I do not understand, why move the cut date? Just put more money avaliable for more DTV boxes & if necessary maybe UHF antennas, preamps & antenna wire.

yeah I'm waiting for the date.. any clues as to what might happen? will they just flash cut with no warning or what?

Question for you guys.

My grandmother lives on the second floor of a post-war, seven-story apartment building in North Flushing, Queens. She has a simple, rather old television, and has watched TV using the apartment building's rooftop antenna, which I guess has lines going through the building, because there's a wire coming out of the wall in the living room, which plugs into the "Antenna In" hole on the back of the TV.

A few weeks back, our building apparently did something to the antenna to receive digital signals, according to the notice we received. We did our part by buying my grandmother a digital converter box for her apartment. I went over there this evening to set it up. Took the Antenna cable out of the TV, and plugged it into the converter box. Then used the coaxial cable to connect the converter box to the TV. Powered it up, and scanned for channels.

The good news is that it works, and I get some channels with good pictures. But I'm not receiving anything decent on Channel 2 or 4. The picture is incredibly slow and choppy, and it's completely unwatchable. Channels 11 and 13 are also very bad. On the other hand, Channels 5, 7, 9, and some Spanish channels in the 50s or 60s come out excellent.

So what's up with CBS and NBC?

Our building's exercise room in the basement has an old TV with a digital converter box, and it receives a perfect signal on all channels. It also has channels we couldn't get in my grandmother's apartment.

I have no problem in my apartment, because I have cable. :-p

The good news is that it works, and I get some channels with good pictures. But I'm not receiving anything decent on Channel 2 or 4. The picture is incredibly slow and choppy, and it's completely unwatchable. Channels 11 and 13 are also very bad. On the other hand, Channels 5, 7, 9, and some Spanish channels in the 50s or 60s come out excellent.

So what's up with CBS and NBC?

Our building's exercise room in the basement has an old TV with a digital converter box, and it receives a perfect signal on all channels. It also has channels we couldn't get in my grandmother's apartment.




It sounds like something is blocking the channels from going through. If there is a splitter somewhere between your grandma's TV and the antenna, and the splitter does not go up to 900-1000MHZ, then some channels will be blocked since the digital channels broadcast OTA in UHF (eg Ch2 is actually Ch 56 UHF which is around 750Mhz). Or it could be the cable going into your grandmas apt is inferior cheap RG58 or RG 59. It should be RG6.
Since she is on the 7th floor, and if she has a good line of sight to the Empire State Bldg, she might be better of buying a cheap $4 UHF bowtie antenna from Radio Shack and getting the channels from that, rather than depend on the rooftop antenna. If you have an old set of rabbit ears lying around, try those as a test.

You can explain the situation to the Bldg Mgmt and maybe they can look into it for you. How many units in this Bldg?

She lives on the second floor. We have two buildings, each building has seven floors and around 66 apartments.

I'm wondering now if each building has its own rooftop antenna. The exercise room in the basement I mentioned earlier is in the other building, and it gets all the channels with perfect reception.

She lives on the second floor. We have two buildings, each building has seven floors and around 66 apartments.

I'm wondering now if each building has its own rooftop antenna. The exercise room in the basement I mentioned earlier is in the other building, and it gets all the channels with perfect reception.

Check the rooftop if you can and see. For that many apts, I would not be surprised if there were more than 1 rooftop antenna. If indeed there is more than 1, perhaps the antenna your grandmas tv is on just needs to be adjusted. But you won't know for sure unless you start doing process of elimination. For example, does anyone else on your grandmas floor have a problem with OTA?

Check the rooftop if you can and see. For that many apts, I would not be surprised if there were more than 1 rooftop antenna. If indeed there is more than 1, perhaps the antenna your grandmas tv is on just needs to be adjusted. But you won't know for sure unless you start doing process of elimination. For example, does anyone else on your grandmas floor have a problem with OTA?

My grandmother is probably one of the few in the building without cable. :(

I'm trying to see if any of her familiar neighbors are in similar boats.

My grandmother is probably one of the few in the building without cable. :(

I'm trying to see if any of her familiar neighbors are in similar boats.

Even if she's on the 2nd floor, being in Flushing she should be able to get channels with her own indoor antenna.
I live 25 miles from ESB on Long Island and I have a cheap $4 bowtie antenna in the attic and I pull in all channels ( except Ch13, which is a known issue because of low power). I think you should try that and see how it works.

Even if she's on the 2nd floor, being in Flushing she should be able to get channels with her own indoor antenna.
I live 25 miles from ESB on Long Island and I have a cheap $4 bowtie antenna in the attic and I pull in all channels ( except Ch13, which is a known issue because of low power). I think you should try that and see how it works.

Actually reception when closer to the transmitters located in a big city may be more of a challenge due to multipath.

Today I tried to split my OTA signal as an experiement to see what would happen. I was concerned about how much signal would be lost when I added another TV to the signal from the antenna.

My current setup is an outdoor CM4228 antenna plus a CM7777 preamp. The preamp is in the basement not by the TV. I run about 75’ of RG6 to the second floor TV from the preamp. That TV currently using OTA is in a bedroom and is a Sharp HD 32” 1080p LCD.

The SHARP HD 46” 1080i LCD TV on the first floor is connected to Cablevision. So I unhooked Cablevision and rerouted the outdoor antenna feed to it and took signal strength readings. It was now the only TV connected to the antenna. This TV is about 10’ from the basement preamp.

Next I put a 2-way splitter in the basement and hooked up both TVs and the preamp.

My expectations were that I would have noticeable signal loss. I was way wrong. In fact just the opposite. NBC 4.1 was the same 82 reading but all the others went up 1 to 7 clicks. Fox 5.1 signal strength went from 81 to 85.

The splitter used was a Lewsonics Inc Vs2WDS 2-way digital plus splitter 5-1000 MHz. By the two coaxial male connectors it says –3.5dB by each one. I think that means expected signal loss?

I know this is rather long winded but I just wanted to present in non technical terms the impact of splitting OTA signal in my experience. I am really happy with my results.

Perhaps you engineer types can explain why I had no loss in signal strength and in fact signal improved. Could it be the splitter did something?

Yuck.

The amp should be at the antenna. I bet your overall reception would improve if it was closer.

But is your meter measuring strength or signal quality? If you're getting overload or excessive multipath that splitting the signal is getting rid of, your signal quality will go up.

- Trip

Today I tried to split my OTA signal as an experiement to see what would happen. I was concerned about how much signal would be lost when I added another TV to the signal from the antenna.

My current setup is an outdoor CM4228 antenna plus a CM7777 preamp. The preamp is in the basement not by the TV. I run about 75’ of RG6 to the second floor TV from the preamp. That TV currently using OTA is in a bedroom and is a Sharp HD 32” 1080p LCD.

The SHARP HD 46” 1080i LCD TV on the first floor is connected to Cablevision. So I unhooked Cablevision and rerouted the outdoor antenna feed to it and took signal strength readings. It was now the only TV connected to the antenna. This TV is about 10’ from the basement preamp.

Next I put a 2-way splitter in the basement and hooked up both TVs and the preamp.

My expectations were that I would have noticeable signal loss. I was way wrong. In fact just the opposite. NBC 4.1 was the same 82 reading but all the others went up 1 to 7 clicks. Fox 5.1 signal strength went from 81 to 85.

The splitter used was a Lewsonics Inc Vs2WDS 2-way digital plus splitter 5-1000 MHz. By the two coaxial male connectors it says –3.5dB by each one. I think that means expected signal loss?

I know this is rather long winded but I just wanted to present in non technical terms the impact of splitting OTA signal in my experience. I am really happy with my results.

Perhaps you engineer types can explain why I had no loss in signal strength and in fact signal improved. Could it be the splitter did something?

What happens if you remove the amp? Does signal decrease, improve or stay the same?

The CM 7777 Preamp comes in 2 parts. One part is up by the CM 4228 antenna and the actual amp is inside plugged in to an outlet in the basement.

I can't disconnect unless I go up to the antenna which I am not going to do as it is too high for me. I had a pro do the installation.

I can try splitting the signal 3 ways and see what happens. However isn't it strange that there is no signal loss and even improvement when you split the signal?

Ah! So the amp is at the antenna and the power injector is in the basement. That's fine, shouldn't be harmful.

- Trip

In case any of you missed it the Senate passed a bill yesterday to delay the transition 4 months and the House is expected to pass it today!

For all of us ready and waiting for the transition this is bad news. For everyone else with their head in the sand this will simply delay the inevitable!

I was so wanting to see the transition and what happened to the digital signals being broadcast!

June 12th it will be delayed again because some people would not be ready. I am tired of hearing about the transition date on all the channels and now it is not going to happen when it suppose to happen. I was looking forward in February to get channels 2 and 13 but now it won't happen until June and then when June comes it won't happen until September and then when September comes it won't happen well you get the point.

Today 1/27/09 I emailed Channel 13, WNET, and asked whether the 4 month delay of the cutover will affect their plans to go full power.

This is the email I received from them.

>Thank you for writing to Thirteen/WNET.
>
>The Senate passed the bill but the extension hasn't officially been
>decided. We are scheduled to go full strength with our digital signal on
>2/17/09.
>
>Thank you for your interest in our programming.
>
>Regards,
>
>D. Johnson
>Thirteen/WNET
>Member & Viewer Relations
>212-560-2888

Currently I can BARELY receive 13. I find that I have to move my indoor antenna to a particular spot and move it a few inches left/right forward/backward to get a somewhat reliable signal - but there are dropouts especially when a plane flys by along the Hudson River. I was watching American Experience, about J. Robert Oppenheimer. The last 1/2 hour the picture was stuttering. What a distraction.

I hope after "Scotty" brings Thirteen up to Full Power, we'll all be happy. :D

I have a Zenith DTT901 and a Radio Shack gold colored double bowtie UHF indoor antenna I bought 20+ years ago to receive WHT - Wometco Home Theater.

I wish I could get WLIW - but that's ANOTHER problem.

WNJB BLASTS IN - the STRONGEST signal, which is good. WNJB is a second tier Thirteen. I like Thirteen better - movies.

Of course the creepy religious channels 29-1 thru 29-10 are rock solid.

>The Senate passed the bill but the extension hasn't officially been
>decided. We are scheduled to go full strength with our digital signal on
>2/17/09.

Unfortunately, if I'm interpreting that properly, it doesn't mean anything. It sounds to me like they're saying that the law hasn't changed, and until it does, they have to transition on 02/17/09. If it said something like "we'll be transitioning regardless of Congressional action," that would be something to be excited about.

Sorry. :(

- Trip

June 12th it will be delayed again because some people would not be ready. I am tired of hearing about the transition date on all the channels and now it is not going to happen when it suppose to happen. I was looking forward in February to get channels 2 and 13 but now it won't happen until June and then when June comes it won't happen until September and then when September comes it won't happen well you get the point.

I believe NY NC is most adversely affected by the digital conversion in the US. When we had the WTC this would not have been a problem. They had much more tower space on the flat top of the WTC. Therefore there was room for the analog & digital antennas. But after 9-11-01 all the stations crowding back on the ESB there was not the room to accomdate extra antennas with out adversely the range of the stations. I think that the stations do have the option to go ahead & shut off the analog if they want. Some stations else where have all ready have shut off the analog. If you could see what the cost of an electric bill is for running 2 UHF TV ttransmitters at full power you would know why. Seems like I saw some where, one full power UHF tv transmitter cost about $20000.00 a month.

I also read some where that the white house says there are some poor folks that do not have the money to buynew antennas. They said that some are watching snowy weak signals in fringe areas on VHF low band. Most of the VHF low band TV stations are now using UHF for their digital channels & they plan to stay on UHF. Thus they say to keep watching TV those folks must go aa& buy really big strong UHF antennas pre amps & coax. thus the US gov is going to also have money for a new UHF antenna system. But the white hosue is most like right about the poor folks needed a new antenna system to continue watching the sma TV channels. There may be a lot of old shacks with a bike rim with 300 ohm wire connected to the TV. Those folks may have had some TV signal but I am sure it was snowy & ghosty. But what the US gov will give them in place of that poor signal will be a perfect signal because of the way digital is verses watching a poor analog signal because that is just the way digital is, you either get & it is great, you do not get it or is it in & out.

Regarding the likely delay in the digital transition ...

The Senate has approved the bill delaying the mandatory transition. The House of Representatives has not yet voted on the bill. The President has already expressed his support and is sure to sign the bill if it comes to his desk.

The bill, however, simply delays the mandatory termination of analog TV broadcasts from February to June. It does not, however, prevent a broadcaster from sticking to the original February 17th schedule if they so desire. Broadcasters will not be REQUIRED to continue to transmit analog signals. The bill simply ALLOWS broadcasters to delay four months.

As for the impact on Cable TV subscribers - - nil. Cable TV providers have already promised to continue to provide analog versions of digital broadcasts for (I believe) three years after February 17th.

House failed to get 2/3 to pass senate version of delay. So the delay might not happen afterall.

House failed to get 2/3 to pass senate version of delay. So the delay might not happen afterall.

hip hip hurrah!!

It goes to show you that Congress know what the impack on the TV stations will be & show they know what they are doing. The rest in DC do not know what they are doing.

House failed to get 2/3 to pass senate version of delay. So the delay might not happen afterall.
This was an expedited vote that required 2/3 to pass.
The next vote will only require a majority.
It will be delayed again.
Regards
Owenf

This was an expedited vote that required 2/3 to pass.
The next vote will only require a majority.
It will be delayed again.
Regards
Owenf

If you want them to stay with the 2-17-09 cut Then call your Congressman & tell them to vote against the delay.

Assuming there will be no switch-over delay, when will WNET-HD be moving from 61 back to 13? On 2/17?

Then what was the point of this vote then. If it did not pass and now it can be voted again to be passed makes no sense. I don't want the DTV transition to be delayed. It has been delayed long enough. I want to be able to hopefully get channel 13 but with these stupid government rules delaying everything I really don't feel like waiting until June. Lets hope channel 13 does switch over on 2/17 regardless of the vote.

Then what was the point of this vote then. If it did not pass and now it can be voted again to be passed makes no sense. I don't want the DTV transition to be delayed. It has been delayed long enough. I want to be able to hopefully get channel 13 but with these stupid government rules delaying everything I really don't feel like waiting until June. Lets hope channel 13 does switch over on 2/17 regardless of the vote.

No wonder DC can not get any thing done. They spend all their time wasted on stuff not needed like the delay. They need to flat leave the cut date alone & get on to more important stuff like off shore drilling & increasing US oil production.

The frequency band is needed. Let us get on with it.

The UHF channels I get now will probably be the same with reception but I really want to know how the high VHF channels are going to be coming in. I have a bad feeling they are going to come in worse because of LOS and mutipath. The only high VHF channel now is channel 8 and I can only peak it at about 10%. Did it move yet to the Conde Nas Building.